KISS OF THE VAMPIRE (Podcast/Discussion)

This week we have a look at the 1963 Hammer film KISS OF THE VAMPIRE.  This is Episode #461! KISS OF THE VAMPIRE (also known as KISS OF EVIL on American television) is a 1963 British vampire film directed by Don Sharp and starring Edward de Souza and Jennifer Daniel. It was written by producer Anthony Hinds (as John Elder) and made by Hammer Film Productions.It was Sharp's first movie for Hammer. He went on to make two more non-vampire films for the company, The Devil-Ship Pirates (1964), and Rasputin: The Mad Monk (1966). He also made Witchcraft (1964) with Lon Chaney, a film we’ve covered.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello and welcome to the Castle of Horror, the show
dedicated to horror movie is an awesomeness. We are a
feed Spot top one hundred horror podcast. This week we
have a look at the nineteen sixty three Hammer film
Kiss of the Vampire. This is episode four hundred and
sixty one. Bear in mind if you haven't seen today's movie,
we're going to be talking about it from the perspective
of horror fans who've seen it, So warning spoilers ahead.

(00:31):
From Denver, Colorado, I'm your host, Jason Henderson, publisher at
castle Bridge Media, home of the Castle of Horror anthology.
With me from Austin is Tony Savaggio, lead singer and
bassist of the band Visits of Mars and lead guitarist
of the band Rise from Fire Salo Tony Hody Hoty,
also in Austin. Mister Drew Edwards is the writer creator
of the long running underground comic Halloween Man, which you

(00:53):
can find at Global Comics. He is a Best Writer
Ringo nominee, Austin Chronicle Best of Austin Award winner and
a member of the Pan American Fellowships Ahillo.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
And Drew Drive Drive Like the Devil.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Drive like the Devil would be a great title for
a Roger Corman race picture. And finally, also in Denver color,
commentary from Julia Gusman of Casbon inm creation of Denver say.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Hello, hello one.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
And I'm a little stopped up and I apologize, okay.
Kiss of the Vampire also known as Kiss of Evil
on American TV as a nineteen sixty three Hammer Film
vampire film directed by Don Sharp starring Edward Desuza and
the Lovely Jennifer Daniel, was written by producer Anthony Hines
under the pseudonym John Elder. Made by Hammer Film Productions,

(01:39):
it was Sharp's first movie for Hammer. He went on
to make two more non vampire films for the company,
The Devilship Pirates and Resputant The Mad Monk. And he
also made Witchcraft, which is a movie that starred Lon
Cheney in that we have covered on this podcast. So
this is this is really cool. This is a cool
movie to be covering. It's it's beautiful to look at. Uh.

(02:01):
Let's get our opening thoughts. UH will go Tony, Julia
and Drew, and then I'll go to the extent that
I have anything to say before the before we get
into it, so Tony later on me, what are your thoughts.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
Yeah, this was a fun one, but it is odd.
You know, you've got motor cars, you've got rich vampires,
you got the town that you know, I Gas Lettensburg,
and then you know, interesting stuff that will cover towards
the end. The way the vampires are, how everything works

(02:32):
is interesting. They still keep it's it's also fascinating. Still
keep you know the the rules, tropes like crosses are
anything that you want them to be. You have just
little faith. Uh it's and it's got you know, amazing
Hammer Blood. I think, you know, the beginning is probably
one of the most It's probably part of the most
evocative thing about this movie though, the beginning and the

(02:53):
end actually. But yeah, this was a fun one. I
don't know if I had seen it in a really
long time, I'd forgotten most of it, so it was
good to revisit it. I'm looking forward to discussing it.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Thank you, Julia, what about you?

Speaker 5 (03:07):
I love this movie. It's such a breath of fresh air.
It's super different from a lot of the other movies
that we've done. In the Hammer movies in particular, I
think it's gorgeous. I say that a lot about the
Hammer movies is the color and the you know, the costumes,
and the awesome car that they got from a car
museum and all the all the things. The effects are great,

(03:28):
but I really enjoy the culture. I really enjoyed the
fact I like I like the gas lights, Bill or guests,
whatever you.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Call it, Guess Lightensburg, Guest Lightensburg.

Speaker 5 (03:39):
I like all the characters, and especially I love that
the vampires are like a dad and his kids.

Speaker 3 (03:46):
I think that's awesome.

Speaker 5 (03:47):
Like it's not it's not a Dracula and his bride.
It's just this, you know, Dracula stand in and his kids.
It's just a really interesting I enjoyed it tremendously.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Thank you very much, Drew. What about you?

Speaker 2 (03:58):
So?

Speaker 6 (03:58):
For some reason, this was for a long time was
one of the Hammer movies that was relatively easy to
get a hold of on VHS tape, and I rented
it a lot as a teenager, and I always found
this movie out of the Hammer Cannon to be probably

(04:21):
the most upsetting in some ways.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Because of the gas lighting aspect.

Speaker 6 (04:27):
Because these vampires, you know, they're not just attacking people
supernaturally or physically. You know, they're not just harming people's bodies.
They really go after the psychology of the main character
in this movie, and they get basically this entire town

(04:48):
to go along with it. And there was just something
very upsetting about this. It's also very interesting that it's
both a classic Hammer movie but in ways it almost
feels like the beginnings of a deconstruction of the Hammer
tropes because, you know, the vampire Hunter character spends most

(05:10):
of the movie drunk. He's about a million miles away
from Peter Cushing. The vampires in this you know, they
very much operate like degenerate aristocracy.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yes, you know, they're not badasses.

Speaker 6 (05:27):
The way Christopher Lee kind of you know is he's
like stomping and snarling around with in his animalistic fury.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Like these these you know, there's a very.

Speaker 6 (05:38):
Strong element of what feels like class warfare in this
movie that I find fascinating.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
So this is this is.

Speaker 6 (05:44):
An extremely interesting part of the Hammer Vampire catalog that
I think sometimes gets overlooked, and that's unfortunate because it
is a very cool movie.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Thank you very much. Yeah, this is an interesting moment
in the Hammer timeline and it kind of shows you,
you know, a hint at where the Hammer films would go,
but they're also a vestige because you know, we're in
the we'll talk about this in a second in the
Wilderness years. So this movie sort of hangs out there
by itself. It's not part of the Karnstein trilogy. It's

(06:19):
not one of the Dracula movies. It's it's its own thing,
and it ended up being really influential. You know. Roman
Polanski famously was really struck by it and kind of
borrowed elements of it for his Vampire Comedy a couple
of years later, and Rocky Horror Picture Show borrowed huge

(06:39):
elements of this because there's there's just so much going on.
What I love about this movie is the concept that
this is that vampires are a cult, that is that
is a rival to good solid Christianity. They're the bad guys,
but they are sexy bad guys and you can be
won over to their and they are you know, so

(07:03):
unlike you know, unlike in the in in like the
Interview with Vampire and the Vampire Chronicles and stuff like that,
in that vampires are just superheroes. There's nothing actually negative
about them. In fact, they're suffering from humans are prejudiced
towards them, whereas here vampires are a rival like they
are essentially not they are predators, but more than that,

(07:25):
they are basically in a they're locked in a rivalry
with Christianity, which in this case is represented by the
most milk toast dude we've ever seen. So you have
these sort of dissipated rich folk. I disagree with that, Okay,
all right, okay, meaning he is molp toasty, but there's

(07:47):
way worse or that.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
Is.

Speaker 6 (07:52):
First of all, he seems way less like he has
a stick up his ass than a lot of other
Hammer heroes, and he does actually theends, Yeah, he actually
seems like he's into his wife, Like there's multiple scenes
of him coming on to her, Whereas like in I
think a lot of the other Hammer movies, like you,

(08:13):
you have characters like this that almost seem like, you know,
asexual in a way.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
That's another thing. This is a very sexy movie, and
it's a nineteen sixty three film, so there's no nudity
or anything. Any of the eroticism is displayed just by
you know, getting flushed a round the cheeks. Basically you know,
but it's it is very sexy.

Speaker 5 (08:31):
Thing kissing the girl's hand and then staring into her eyes.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yes, yeah, there's a like, there's a there's the you
know what, I'm I'm all over the place. I'm sorry
these were opening thoughts.

Speaker 5 (08:42):
So but that's my favorite though is the is the
brother that the son of the main Like let me see,
let me look at their names. I don't want to
call them by their relational but harcourt Son, Carl, Carl.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
I loved Carl.

Speaker 5 (09:00):
He was so intense, like the way he was like
like when he's playing the like you're talking about the
sexiness of it, when he's playing the piano and he's
just like stares.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
At her and she's like starting to like sway, like
she's just completely hitt and tis by the music.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
It's all very interesting.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yes, it's very interesting. It's very erotic, it's very dangerous.
And what I like about this moment in Hammer is.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
That there's still this this.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Trying to decide whose side are you on? In other words,
obviously these are the bad guys, but the movies constantly
eroticizing the bad guys, and that causes much more attention
and it makes it more interesting then if you went
either way, you know, if you went with the bad
guys being revolting, and then you wouldn't there wouldn't be
that tension, or if they were just you know, Anne

(09:48):
Ricey and superheroes, they're also not as interesting here. It's
troubling because they're sexy and it's a problem.

Speaker 3 (09:55):
You know, Well, Roger was revolting, but he was interesting
in this last.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
That's true, but he is revolting. Yeah, yeah, you're right. Okay,
So to get back to context, this movie fits into
what Bruce Wright called the Wilderness years, which is they
had Dracula in fifty eight, and then they had Brides
of Dracula, which was the Peter you know, Peter Cushion
continued right where Peter Cushing played Van Helsing in a

(10:25):
one off adventure, and this movie has elements of repeating
certain things that came from Brides of Dracula, and originally
apparently they were thinking of making it a more direct
sequel to Brides of Dracula, but they didn't, and I'm
not completely certain why they didn't. But in the end,
there there's there's one moment at least that is a
direct sequel to the Brides of Dracula, which is where

(10:48):
the vampire Tanya is going to the grave to try
to sort of midwife the return of one of the
vampires in it in it, and it doesn't work because no, she.

Speaker 5 (10:57):
Goes she goes over and it's like, why haven't you
joined us yet? Like what's taking you so long? And
it's because the Zimmers Zimmer's daughter, and he staked her
through the heart with a shovel, which I have to
wonder if the shovel is made of silver, because it
didn't look like the wood part actually witnessed her. But anyway,

(11:18):
that was horrific because that's how it opens, like it
starts with that funeral and then he he drives the
shovel through the coffin and into her chest, and she screams.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
And the coffin fills with blood so much that blood
seeps out. Like it is a groady, groady moment. It
also looks almost exactly like the first appearance of and
I may be misremembering this, but to me, his appearance
over that hill looked a lot like the first appearance
of Vincent Price and Tumuligia, which is nineteen sixty five,

(11:50):
so comes after this, which is not to say that
Gorman was watching this at all, but you know that
there those outdoors outdoor scenes look a lot, a lot
similar to one another. H Okay, So I want to
talk We want to get into Professor Zimmer, but first
I thought it would be really great to talk about
h Well, I guess, uh, we should talk about the

(12:12):
plot first. So, Julia, do you want to like explain
like what's what's going on? Like like why does this
married couple wind up Yes, in gas Lettensburg? And then
when we get with what's going on with the town,
Tony can explain why they are so gas lighting?

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Yeah, you know how we women are just so bad
at navigating.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
So of course that's what I've heard. I don't know
if that's true.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
It's not true. I'm really good with maps.

Speaker 5 (12:38):
But anyway, she the wife, the newlyweds are driving along
in their nineteen o three I don't know how I
pronounce this de Don button model Q I guess loaned
to Hammer by the National Motor Museum IMDb. They're driving
along in this awesome, awesome motor car and they have

(13:00):
lost their way and run out of so between the
bad navigator and the and the and the and the
and the bad petrol tracker. He'd like, forgot to fill
the tank. They managed to run out of gas right
in front of castle whatever these people are called U, right,
and so uh so then he's like, you know, used

(13:21):
to hear I'm gonna go look for gas. It takes
for a billion years, and she's just like kind of
freaking out.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
A little bit.

Speaker 5 (13:27):
Meanwhile, Ravna's looking at her through a telescope from the
castle that she can see in the quote unquote distance,
and then uh we we have The only other character
we meet at that point is Professor Zimmer, who tells
her you go back to your car. When she tries
to wander out to go try to find her husband,
he's like, go back to your car, leave here, don't
never come back. So that's kind of where we sat

(13:49):
like that we meet our first characters, and of course
they end up well, no, they actually don't.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Go to the castle. They go to the town.

Speaker 5 (13:57):
They get towed by a horse and they go to
the town and they show up at a motel and
the people are like, oh, we never have people come here.
So they pull all the dusk cloths off of everything
and check them in and they're very weird weird couple
and uh and I guess but friendly.

Speaker 7 (14:14):
Yeah, there are well the.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Guys, the guys.

Speaker 5 (14:17):
For the woman is very just she's depressed, she's very distraught.
But the husband is is quite friendly and he's like,
you know, they're there there.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
I can tell their honeymooners.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
You know, we should make them forget for a minute
period like whatever it is, forget whatever she's not forgetting.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (14:33):
And and let us yeah, and let us help them
enjoy themselves. So that's kind of where we start.

Speaker 1 (14:38):
Yeah, and and right off we're in the hammer Escape,
like which which I don't know. I did not coin
the term hammer Scape, but I don't know who did.
But it is this is the hammer World, which is
to say, place people can go. It is it is
a little German, a little French. Uh. You know this
guy is wearing these German Herman pants later hose and

(15:01):
I guess, and uh, and there's there's you know, actually
there's not as big a cast in this one as
as there are in some of the other uh the
other for the townsfolk.

Speaker 5 (15:12):
Anyway, but no, because that's the thing that the town
is abandoned they're in. They're in the Brace studios a lot,
and there's nobody there and nobody comes there anymore, and
so yeah, so then they get immediately as soon as
they go up to the room and and and new
Hobby is trying to you know, get it on with
his new bride, they immediately get a letter from the

(15:35):
castle that's like, hey, come have dinner with us.

Speaker 1 (15:37):
Yes, yes, And that's when when we go to meet
the ras Tony, would you like to explain the RAVNS
to us?

Speaker 4 (15:47):
Yeah, I mean the kind of gas line part doesn't
happen until later. But then once once you realize that
how everybody's in on it, It's it's kind of similar
in some ways to our previous movie where.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
Hey, why, I mean, we're all rich.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
You're travelers, so you must be rich. You should come
di rich people stuff with us, right, It's kind of
like once, I mean, if you're if you're a traveler
in this world with you know, definitely, I mean, even
though it's a borrowed motor car, they assume like, well,
you have a motor car, you must be pretty well off,
even though you know, our protagonist goes, hey, don't give

(16:21):
me the most expensive room. I'm not made of money,
but they're making the best of it in their travels.
But uh, you know, partially just because they want to
you know, we find out later they want to add
to the cult. But it starts out as them going, hey,
you know, like we all know what's going on. Come
to rich people stuff with us and invite it invites
them to the six trafficking party, well dinner at first,

(16:43):
and then later a party, and.

Speaker 3 (16:45):
Then now nothing happens.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
Yeah, it's really Yeah, it's interesting how they're what you
just described in this hammer World. This is how it works.
English people of a certain class, not the hot, not
know like like basically of the upper middle class. I
suppose go into hammer World and immediately all of the
gentry want to like get to know them. It's it's really,

(17:11):
it's really interesting.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
And I would understood the clothing of this era, of
this Edwardian time, because she's like, I haven't a thing
to wear, and it says, well, the letter says come
as you are, but she totally changes into a much
fancier gown. So I'm like, so you hadn't a thing
to wear except this slightly fancier thing, which to me
is like super super fancy. But of course when they
go to the actual party, she they borrow clothes from
the from the vampire kids, the siblings.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Yeah, and they're immediately you know, the vampire they love,
they love them, or rather they love her. She's she's
immediately very interesting to them, you know, which you know,
they they sort of are they're vampires, but they're not,
you know, they're in disguise, but they are so attracted
to her. And it is really interesting that they seem

(17:56):
to be from the very beginning unable to high their
desire to sort of get her away from from Gerald.

Speaker 5 (18:05):
And it's interesting that they don't want both of them,
like you think, this seems like this equal men and
women in that cult, so you would think they would
want them both.

Speaker 6 (18:12):
Well, eventually they do sort of decide after he makes
a nuisance of himself to let what is the daughters
of the innkeeper's name, Tanya Tanya, They just they say,
let you know, initiate him into our society. So but
it's it's really only after because I think they I

(18:35):
think they would have been fine if he you know,
somehow bought into their their gas lighting and fucked off
back to England. Absolutely, I think they would have been
fine with that. But you know, when he proves a
bit more resourceful than they they gave credit for. Because

(18:55):
here's the thing. Yes they are of a comparable class,
but they're not the same. And the way they do
make it, you know, apparent with the way they behave
towards him in particular, because I guess they think his.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Wife probably fits in better for whatever reason, or maybe
they're just horny.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
I think they can lift her up, but he's he's
not useful to them.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
I mean, it sort of feels like new money versus
old money kind of thing, you know, like whereas you know,
like I I, you know, there's there's a lot going on.
You know that's that's just not quite on the surface,
which is sort of how I like it in this
kind of movie because it allows you to speculate.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
But they're there.

Speaker 6 (19:46):
You know. There's something I think also about her that
they think by bringing her in it's going to strengthen
their little unit, whereas I think they think bringing him
in is sort of like a pity fun.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
He would never imagine that. Instead, this is a like
a bike exploitation movie of the seventies and So you
have this couple when this this sort of this sort
of straight arrow guy and his his hot hippie girlfriend,
the bike exploitator, the bike biker dudes are going to
want the girlfriend and they're not going to want the guy.

(20:20):
No matter how useful he is, They'll they'll want to
get rid of get rid of him. It's it's it's universal,
and it's it's so interesting and sexually threatening that it
I keep hitting this point because.

Speaker 6 (20:33):
This movie does very much play on the idea, you know,
like anxieties that I think a lot of people have
about their relationship, and to a degree, it's stuff that's
rooted in financial anxiety, like oh, you know, my partner
could just be whisked away from me if someone that
was more stylish and more cultured.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Didn't have more money, you know, came in.

Speaker 6 (20:55):
And I think that that's you know, I think that's
a relatable fear, even if it's not always founded.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
It's a dream anxiety. It's sort of a Julia what's
the word that we use, the negative fantasy catastrophe, so
which which So you can have these you know, you're
worried about something that's going to happen to financially or whatever,
and you can just sort of start to really spiral
and get worked up about something that's not real, but

(21:26):
in horror you can go ahead and make it real.

Speaker 6 (21:28):
So, you know, well, and I think there's also, like
again going to that class warfare thing, that there's just
this idea that you know, the rich are different from us,
and they think they can just have our women and have.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Their way with our lives, and you know.

Speaker 6 (21:47):
That's you know, maybe that's not entirely unfounded.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
If you look at what's going on in the country, but.

Speaker 6 (21:56):
You know, it's it's it's a really juicy meta a
fort that works really well with the idea of vampiism,
especially the way a vampirism has been portrayed since the
novel Dracula, where you know, suddenly you know, vampires weren't
just these revenants, you know, it's you know what is

(22:17):
count Dracula, He's a count. You know, like vampires most
of the time in popular culture are portrayed as kind
of upper crust. They're there aristocratic monster, and this movie
in particular, there's a very very skilled job of navigating
that space and really like pin pointing in on why

(22:39):
that anxiety is frightening, but also why that anxiety is titillating, and.

Speaker 5 (22:45):
Yes, and right, you know, I think the sixties and
seventies portray them that way. But once you get to
like the eighties and nineties, you get into the Lost
Boys and Buffy, the Vampires, Thelayer, where it's like empires
are cool daughters.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, I mean I.

Speaker 6 (23:02):
Think it's less I think it's less commonplace, but I
mean you still have characters like Lestat, who has like
a certain cultured, aristocratic lie to him. I don't think
that the trope of the upper crust vampire is completely gone.

Speaker 5 (23:19):
No, they're either upper cluss uppercrust or they're like cool
gang members.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (23:25):
Well, I you know, I think there's something to be
said about that because like, yeah, absolutely, Like in the eighties,
you know, with the you know, punk punk rock, you
had punk rock zombies, punk rock were wolves, punk rock vampires,
and suddenly, yeah, you know, I think you know, when

(23:46):
when the fear of like street crime suddenly became more numerous.
I think that's why you started to see.

Speaker 8 (23:53):
All the movie monsters suddenly wearing leather jackets and riding motorcycles,
and you know, you had characters like Spike and so
right about that, but you know.

Speaker 6 (24:06):
Default all the way back to Lago see classic movie Vampire.
Is somebody a nice evening where who probably owns the castle?

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah? I love it.

Speaker 4 (24:16):
Jason.

Speaker 5 (24:16):
Did you say that this, that this castle and this
party was the inspiration for Rocky Horror in the party?

Speaker 1 (24:23):
Yeah? By that, what I mean is there's this moment
in Rocky Horror where Brad and Janitor are hiding out
and they see all of these cultists arrive and they're awesome,
different vehicles and stuff, and and they come in and
they put on masks and they do the time work. Right.
This is clearly there's no way it's not. This is

(24:44):
clearly the template for that, because the vampires go, oh hey,
come on around tomorrow night because we got a big
party going on. You can stay in the castle, but
we're gonna have lots of guests, which I think is hilarious.

Speaker 5 (24:55):
He says, you can't stay in the castle because we're
gonna have a lot of guests.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Well you could, but you can't because gonna be booked up.

Speaker 5 (25:01):
So here's what We're gonna loan you some suitable clothing,
you come back, and then they give them masks and
then they.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Immediate so great this. Uh.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Also there's also a scene like this.

Speaker 6 (25:14):
You know, before we started recording, we were talking about
Van helsing there is also a vampire ball you know
in that, and then you mentioned Fearless Vampire Killers. So yes,
you know clearly this this movie has more fans then
you might think.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
When Tony and I did Clockworks are our graphic novel,
uh for humanoids? Did I say that right? It was humanoids? Yes, anyway,
we included a ball like like and and I don't
know where you were coming from, Tony. For me, I
was thinking of vampire balls honestly, like, well, I just.

Speaker 4 (25:49):
Thought it would be cool. Now, it ended up that
we patterned it a little bit after The hell Fire
Club and X Men exactly, but like the pacing and
what happens behind the scenes, I had no idea that
what's happening as we were plotting it, but then you know,
up on reading it and then rereading X Men was like,
oh huh, yeah, I guess that stuck with me. But yes,

(26:10):
the whole idea was balls look cool.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (26:13):
It's a great way to introduce different characters and their interactions,
like you get it it's it's it's a great in
my opinion, a great way to show like we did
a lot with characters, character and character introductions.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
If the ball is going on, you can just jump
to different characters all over the place.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
And exactly and it looks it looks awesome.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:31):
So that was like we were like, well, we're setting
it during this time period, like you gotta have this
and that's part and it's also part of upper class society.

Speaker 1 (26:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
Uh, you know, this idea of and all of the
you know, worked well for us because it's got also
you can have all the petty rivalries, but there we're
all here to enjoy ourselves. Even though we can be
caddy and we can there can be intrigue within that.
Uh and you know, of course this one sets up
an introduct to a cult, you know, but before we

(27:04):
get there, though, we've got a lot of great stuff,
Like we have our you know, drunk wild man Van
Helsing stand In who's also you know, just shows up.
He's just staying there and unlet's like the vampires all
hate him and he you know, he actually tries to stop.
The daughter gets a bit carterizes somehow you can charterize

(27:26):
the vampiism out of yourself in.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
This this is an that's another thing from Bride of Dracula,
where because in that one Dracula sorry Peter Christian got
bit and then he caught a rized the wound. So
Hammer's setting up this stuff that they're going to keep doing,
you know.

Speaker 6 (27:43):
Yeah, well, what's what's also interesting about you know, with
with Dracula Prince of Darkness. You know, we talked about
Father sand Or being how he was different from Peter Fishing.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
As Van Helsing.

Speaker 6 (27:56):
This guy is even further away from it because, you know,
as Tony mentions, most of the first half of.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
The movie, he's drunk and I mean like he's he's.

Speaker 6 (28:06):
Drunk for most of the to the point where you
would think that he might be kind of incomfident. But
his daughter, Yeah, he's grieving. He's grieving, but he's also
kind of an abrasive asshole like he's he's you know,
even when he's trying to to you know, rescue you know,

(28:27):
like people like he's he's never very he's always very brisk,
and not in the same way father Sandor is, who
kind of comes across as this like he's earthy, but
he's you know, he's blunt, but you can always tell
that there's a kindness underneath. That this guy is just prickly,
and I I find it fascinating that this even, you know,

(28:51):
because we're not that far away from Brides of Dracula
or or you know, Horror of Dracula at this point,
but like we're already at the point where I feel like, again,
this character kind of feels like a deconstruction of the
Vampire Hunter are, you know, as a concept, because he's.

Speaker 5 (29:10):
Very realistic to me though, because the fact that he
has just lost his daughter and he's been fighting these
vampires and his town is basically abandoned. I mean I
would be pretty prickly too at that point.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Oh absolutely.

Speaker 6 (29:21):
I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, but you know,
from from the standpoint of him, you know, as somebody
who you know, you're just kind of because like the
movie just sort of keeps he kind of keeps floating.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
In and out of the movie.

Speaker 6 (29:34):
You know, you don't consistently stay with him for any
length of time, So I don't you don't really connect
the dots that that will until you, at least for me,
until I saw this movie several times, and you know,
I think a lot of people watching this would not
necessarily have a takeaway that you're having Julia where he

(29:57):
that you're giving him, you know, sympathy. I think, you know,
a lot of people watching this would be like, well,
this guy's just a dick, and you know, and I'm
not saying that it's a detriment. I actually think that's
fascinating that, you know, over the course of all these
Hammer movies, you have a character like Peter Fishing is

(30:17):
Van Helsing, you have Father Sandor, you have this guy,
and then in a couple of years after this, you
have Captain Cronos. So you have like all these kind
of characters that are basically the same. You know that
they have the same function within the narrative, but done
very differently from what.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
That's wild, right, They don't have to be so different.
They could be a group offs of one another.

Speaker 5 (30:40):
But this one's not very competent, Like he's not again
it might be because he's depressed and drunk, but like
the fact that he just just grabs Tanya when she's
at his daughter's grave, and you're like, you didn't think
this through my friend, this is a vampire, and that's
when she bites his arms, like hello, Yes.

Speaker 6 (31:02):
I actually think Gerald is a bit better at the
vampire hunting in a shorter period of time than he is.
But he's been doing his homework. And that's another thing.
It's fascinating to me. So the ending of this movie
where this guy performs the Satanic ritual and summons a bunch.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
Of bats to.

Speaker 6 (31:26):
Yeah, that was actually supposed to be in Bride's of Dracula,
and Peter Pushing objected because he thought it was out
of character for Van Helsing, which I do agree with,
but I think it's perfect for this character because it's
so ruthless and so pragmatic and.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
He'll do whatever. And let's assume that it works because
it works obviously, because the movie shows it works. So
if it works, he's gonna like, Okay, yeah, I guess
what I'm gonna do with some black magic, you know,
like like whatever, I want to mention something about Professor
Zimmer also, so he it's when Jennifer Daniel is talking

(32:04):
to him and goes, what's the deal and you know
what happened with your daughter Tanya? And he's he tells
a story, and he tells the story of vamporism, and
it is really wild because it's different from you know,
Peter Cushing, you remember in either Brides or Horror said,
you know, the effect of is like the effect of drugs,
you know, like they're addicted. And that's interesting. But it's

(32:26):
just one line as he's talking to himself into his
little recording machine. But here Professor Zimmery tells the story.
He goes, my daughter was a good kid, but she
went off to college. She went to the city and
she fell in with the end there's it drips with sarcasm,
the so called smart set, and then she came home
riddled with disease and she was a vampire. And he

(32:47):
goes and these people convinced themselves that what they're doing
is right.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
Well everything that he just what happened to me, by
the way, I went off to college and I came
back to somebody that my parents just did not recognize exactly.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Isn't that interesting? Like it's intended. It's it's you know,
it's doing double duty and it's acting as this metaphor
to the audience for your kid goes off to college
and turns into a monster. And I just found that fast.
Oh by the way, a venereally disease riddled monster, and
uh that I just find that fascinating that that's the

(33:19):
theory here. But not only is a disease, but it's
also a cult that like that's the that's the crazy thing, like.

Speaker 5 (33:25):
Like it's and it's the perfect time because it's the
sixty so it's like the sexual revolution and all that.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah, but this is sixty three, so like that.

Speaker 5 (33:32):
The beginning, I mean the Beatles or whatever. It's you know,
it's just starting to kind of get in rock and roll.
I mean all the things you know that that we've seen.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
In yeah, and the beats and all that stuff, all
that sort of It's like by sixty eight or so,
this will look you know, sixty three will look quite quaint,
you know, but already they're like, you know, you got
to keep out keep an eye on your kids, and
going to come back riddled with disease.

Speaker 5 (33:57):
And also when when does Elvis get has become famous?

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Elvis on on Ed Sullivan. That's a good question.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
That's earlier than sixty three though, Like Elvis.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Is nineteen fifty six.

Speaker 5 (34:14):
Yeah, yeah, so we've got yeah, we've got you know,
girls throwing their you know whatever is that people.

Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yes, no sexuality exists in the sixties, in the fifties,
that's true, but there's yeah, it's it's interesting that they've
gone from the predator, the athletic predator, monster Dracula to
this this sort of protos Studio fifty four. You're going
to get swept up into it and drugs and and

(34:44):
perverted sexuality and all that stuff. And even though it's
again shown in a way that is acceptable to the
censors for nineteen sixty three, because they all all the
cultists wear big white choir robes basically.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
And and with boo boom windows for the ladies.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Yes, you know, And I wonder if you're able to
say no and go, you know what, let's spare. I
think I'll take a man.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
From I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure that would be
a big note.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
What's it like for the vampire. I'm just won hard.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
I'm guessing if you tried the vampires to you know, hypnotize,
you do the mind trick and go no, you want
to show your sex? You like like you like the
you know what, I do like the window, right?

Speaker 5 (35:29):
You also like sitting on the floor for hours at
a time during Right, that.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
Is so funny. Oh my gosh. You know, by the way, I.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
Do really enjoy that when they mess them up, they
really mess them up.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Like, wait, why are we in this room?

Speaker 4 (35:42):
This sucks?

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Nobody else has trapped us. I guess we get to that.

Speaker 4 (35:46):
Like I just I that was actually that was actually
novel as well.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah, I mean what's really funny about it is that
when you can finally turn the tide on them, they
can be completely destroyed. Right, you know, so they're only
powerful sort of to the extent that you give them
the room and the space and and you know, you
allow them to be powerful. Like these guys are made
more powerful by a completely cowed town, in this case
represented by like two people, you know, but that and

(36:14):
the police and oh yes, cow yes for worth? Uh
are there police? I can't even remember.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Gerald goes to the.

Speaker 4 (36:25):
Yeah, like, we can't, like, we can't prosecute rich people,
Are you crazy?

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (36:30):
Exactly when you start that's when you start your gas
light your gas lights.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
No, that's that's where he fully. I mean, they you know,
because they're getting drunk at the I like, also, what
I really did, like it was clever and scared, just
like what's saying the they you know, they give him
a mask, devil mask this is by the way, and
then the you know, the the sun I could you know,

(37:00):
he switches his mask so and he lures you know,
lures the wife to the to the cult room. Now
also though look, I know it's the movie, but when
you're in the cult room, especially after you've found because
she comes across with some weird sound, but she comes
across because oh and the vampire, you know, our head vampire. Yeah,
once you're trapped in that room, just man, throw those

(37:22):
candles at the door, set it on fire, right, sang like,
grab those huge candelabras to start bashing stuff, like you
there's no reason to stay trapped, like if you can
help it. Really good point it was that was was like,
come on, man, like what people aren't going to run
for a fire? You can you can be a master
of your own destiny there, lady.

Speaker 5 (37:42):
Yeah, there's another movie where and I can't remember what
it was, where the person had a mask that has
the spouse or the partner has a mask on and
then someone else replaces them by putting the same mask on.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
But can'tmember what it was, but anyway, yeah that was. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (37:58):
So so he's a Carl dan Is with dances with
her at first of the ball and everybody just stares,
which is the first sign you got at the party
is not what it seems because everyone's just staring at them,
and she doesn't even notice Marianne. And then finally, after
like many dances, she's like, I should really find Gerald
and Derald Daryl's like super drunk with with the other

(38:22):
with the sister and and he's like, I should really
find mary Anne. And so by this point now Marianne's
been I guess she's been abducted. And then she has
found she's found uh Ravna and he has blood on
his mouth and he's now gonna be all rapy and gross.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
And then yeah, and Gerald is knocked out. He wakes
up the next day.

Speaker 5 (38:42):
Girl's knocked out, and that's when the gas lighting starts,
where they're like, came alone and get the hell out
and don't.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
Hey you're poor and be you didn't ever have a wife,
so I don't even know why you're here. Yeah, we
poor weirdo. He doesn't have a wife.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
He was so drunk he slept one night.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
Did you even come here? We didn't invite you. I
guess you did. We would never invite to you. Have
you seen yourself? Like they's just just so like terrible man.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
They they they, I don't know.

Speaker 6 (39:13):
There's just something very nightmarish about them. Absolutely, you know,
just outright denying that he has a wife and they
have everybody you know in on it except for except
for Zimmer and I just something so diabolical about that
in a way that like it's as scary as Christopher

(39:35):
Lee is as Dracula, Like he's rather more straightforward than this.

Speaker 4 (39:42):
This extends that creepiness to a whole area. Yeah, because
you know when he gets back to his hotel, Uh,
now we see that, you know, our proprietor is in
on it. They've removed all our clothes, and he starts
to guess like he doesn't want to be in on it.

Speaker 9 (39:59):
It's just that they have well he's he's there's something
very sad and pitiable but also pathetic about this this couple,
because they're they're you know, the.

Speaker 6 (40:14):
Yeah, and she's never coming back, it's never coming back,
like she's too far gone. And you know later you know,
later on you know, Zimmer has to actually outright say
to them, you know, well, do you want the same
thing to happen that that happened to your daughter to happen.

Speaker 2 (40:31):
To his wife?

Speaker 6 (40:33):
And you know, like these are you know, this is
this is one of the things that Hammer really excels
at is they take these characters that are essentially background characters,
they find actors that give really good performances, and so
they feel really memorable and very lived in.

Speaker 4 (40:55):
And yeah, I agree with you, because he's up until
the point he is just happy, like, oh look, there's
life back in the town. You know, like you're convinced
that that moment that that's what he's thinking. His wife
is so sad, and you know, in fact, we see
her crying over you know, her daughter's belongings and then.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
Looking through all her ship and I'm like mary Anne.

Speaker 4 (41:17):
Oh yeah, well yeah, but but she's so happy to
help her, like like, you know, there's melancholy to it,
but there's also like your you don't know until everything
starts going down how kind of pitiable they are, and then.

Speaker 6 (41:30):
It's kind of lost his mind a little bit.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
Right, Well, I think it's it's partially maybe it's like
the it could also be kind of what we do
in the Shadows. Me he's got the brain scramblies, might
just being manipulated by the empires. I really like.

Speaker 5 (41:48):
I really like that this film explores what would happen
to people in a town like this, because other ones
just like, oh, you don't want to go to the castle.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
The castle's bad.

Speaker 5 (41:58):
Everybody turns too eampires or they die. And then these
ones like, no, my daughter is a vampire, and my
daughter would be a vampire.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Somebody to kill her.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
You know.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
It's like, and then, what what does that mean for
these people?

Speaker 5 (42:08):
They're gonna drink, they're gonna be crying all the time,
they're going to be a little you know, yeah, you're
saying scrambled or whatever. All those reactions are very genuine
and great. But I just love that he so he
gets yeah, so he gets gaslighted by all the people
at the chateau. Then he gets gaslighted by the cop
who's like, rich people would never do that. And then
he gets gaslighted by the hotel guy. And then he

(42:29):
goes to the professor and the professor's like, yeah, yeah,
she said the chateau.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Time for the bullshit.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Yeah, yeah, I like that that that kind of defies
your expectations when that happens, because he goes, you won't
believe a professor. He goes, yes, yes, and you know,
you don't expect that to happen. But it's and it
so it's kind of it's fun.

Speaker 5 (42:53):
Really yeah, it kind of really it's relief because it
goes by quick, like whereas like there's that film Unknown
with Liam Neeson where everybody like his wife is suddenly
not his wife and and somebody else is his her
husband and it's like what is happening and it's so frustrating,
But this one is like almost immediately like okay.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yeah, there's so much plot in this ninety minute movie. Yeah,
the whole the Lady Vanishes storyline takes up like ten
minutes of like tops, you know, and then it's done.
Which maybe that's maybe that's a problem. I mean, I
don't know, it's it's it's hard to say, but.

Speaker 6 (43:28):
As all, I mean, you certainly could have made that
tension laugh longer. But I mean the question is does
it need to be longer? I mean, you know this movie, no,
I agree, I think I mean there's something we said
that you know that for you know, a version of

(43:49):
this movie that is a little more lengthy. That being said,
the stuff that I would extend is probably the bat sequence,
Like I think that that could have been a little longer,
Like I don't know, Like I think one of the
things that is impressive about this movie, and an impressive
about Hammer overall, is the way that they were able

(44:13):
to develop a house style, and one of the things
about them is they were able to really have these
this sort of economic storytelling that still again made like
a world that felt very lived in.

Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah right, Yeah, especially by reusing all of these same
sets so that you just kind of just kind of
get used to seeing, you know, even the same characters,
sometimes the same actors and so forth. You know, not
necessarily inciss the vampire, but you know, Michael Rippery will
show up. Go ahead. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (44:44):
I had a couple of thoughts on I was thinking about,
you know, like, there's still the crazy part is there's
still small towns where basically if you said, hey, look
here's some stuff that happened and it was some of
the rich people in town and the cops would just go,
now you should leave town. Like the chances of you
doing anything against like the judge or the mayor or

(45:05):
the or the family that kind of runs the town
who's not in politics, but is like there's still towns
like that.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Man you're picturing roadhouse with vampires. Well, either way, somebody
should do well.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
Just I mean, like especially like small especially like small
southern towns where like yeah, nah, like you you should
get out of town. There's nothing you can do here,
uh being. But also it did make me think of that,
like segue into you know, the double feature would be
this and Race with the Devil. Oh yeah, where you

(45:38):
know we find out that it goes deeper and deeper
as it goes along. I think if you watch this
and then watch Race with the Devil, it would probably
be a pretty good double feature. But maybe that's because
also anything a lot of things that Race with the
Devil would be.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Anything.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
Like when I think about how the dynamics of the
town and stuff as it unfold, it's like, I think
that would be a gay kind of I also.

Speaker 6 (46:01):
Think a good double feature with the double rides out,
which is oh yeah, the Hammer movie that this actually
reminds me the most of, even though that it's not
The Devil rides up, it's not a vampire movie.

Speaker 4 (46:17):
No, I'm with you. I can totally see that.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
So, uh, before the big satanic ritual thing at the end,
I just want to take a moment where and I
can't remember exactly when. It's right before the end, where
Zimmer shows up and and saves the day. But Gerald
comes to bring Jennifer Daniel away. But she has been

(46:41):
transformed into a She's on the way to becoming part
of the vampire culture.

Speaker 5 (46:47):
She's being controlled mentally.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
I think she's been perverted, and so a version of
herself is here. She can snap out of it, but
she's not being controlled. I mean, she's that.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
On being controlled.

Speaker 5 (47:00):
They may they psychically command her to come rescue them.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
I'm talking about I'm thinking about the scene where they
make her recite stuff like I only want I only
want him. I don't want you being controlled? Yeah, definitely not.

Speaker 3 (47:14):
That's like fully no, No, you.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Don't think that her will is perverted and the difference
between us two, Okay.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Sure, I agree with Julia. She seems like she's she's
been Bella lagosed.

Speaker 1 (47:29):
I I don't think. I don't think he's conscious. I
think she's completely conscious. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Well, Okay, Jason, then let me spell it out for
you this way. If someone is unconscious but walking around
and talking.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, you're right, you're right.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
What we call that?

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you're right.
You're exactly right. Uh. Anyway, it's yeah, just in the
same way that that the card was turned into a board.
I mean it's it's very similar.

Speaker 6 (47:57):
Like, you know, I love about the scene you're talking
about though, and maybe this is something you were about
to bring up yourself.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
No, no, go, man, I've got nothing else.

Speaker 6 (48:08):
Yeah, you know, so outside of the whole dominant submission,
you know, vampire s and m vibes of the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
I love it when you know, the con blanking out
her name again, the daughter the.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Vampire.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Yeah, she bites.

Speaker 6 (48:30):
Into him, and you know, to make his escape, he
takes the blood from his wound, makes a cross out
of that, which is why I fucking love Gerald. That
is one of the most I've ever seen in the
vampire movie.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Exactly crazy.

Speaker 5 (48:51):
You're right again, I love I mean, I don't know which,
I can't remember which film. We had this wonderful discussion.
It's one of my favorite conversations that we've had on
this podcast when we talked about the power of faith
being what is behind because obviously crosses are everywhere. You know,
any window has a cross in it, any like, you know,
all kinds of cabinets have crosses. But it only has

(49:11):
has power when you have faith behind it. Yeah, and
that's the thing here, He's like, you.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Know, that's the world of Hammer. I mean, that's why
when Peter Cushing jumps on a windmill to create a
cross shape, it's his faith. That what he's basically saying, like,
I am I am sending a giant cross shadow at
you right by doing this.

Speaker 3 (49:33):
That's what does a visual prayer.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Yeah, yeah, isn't that interesting?

Speaker 6 (49:38):
Yeah, the improvised crosses throughout Hammer, and somebody should do
a like a super cut of all those, like yeah,
like but this, this might be my favorite improvised cross
because that this is like the fact that it's actually

(50:01):
blood is really great.

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah. Yeah, that's a really good point. Yeah, like you right,
that you can make a cross out of blood and
that is sufficient if you have if you have faith.
So yes, uh. Anyway, Zimmer comes in and does exactly
what what you guys were referencing earlier, which is he
does the satanic ritual that that you talked about, and

(50:26):
I want to mention it's very similar to the bats
attacking the church and stars of Dracula, where Dracula summons
the bats.

Speaker 4 (50:35):
Let's not forget though. First they have to go rescue
you know, they come to rescue her. They they and
they make their way, which is, you know, so the
only way that's going to save her rather than kill
the main vampire, which is part of what they're going
to do, what they want to do. Is also he's like, hey,
are you religious, Well, that's great, but also I'm going
to do this satanic ritual against them. This is the night,

(50:55):
this is the night that I can do evil against evil,
which is you know, I haven't seen that before. But
also you know, I like he also traps them, which
is great because he puts like garlic outside. Yes, and
I love their reaction too because this is smart. I mean,
it's too bad you know he didn't like, you know,
that would have been interesting as if you know, the

(51:16):
flower that was in their lapel would have been garlic
or something. You could do stuff like that. But he
traps them in the basically in the ritual room. Uh,
you know, puts up enough anti vampire stuff, they start
freaking out like they've never encountered that, because you know,
the main guy's like, now we'll get out of this.
We totally can can do this. We're gonna we're tougher
than that. But everybody else is going, wait a second.

(51:39):
We thought you you're our leader. How can we hit
How could this happen? This sucks.

Speaker 7 (51:44):
We're hungry and scared and like it's, you know, one
of those things like well you know, that's sorry you
put your face into this, but you know, and they're
they're stuck in there.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
They're stuck in their weird vampire togas.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Yes, where they have to say on the floor because
even though.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
Remember the Hands of Fate how all the brides sit
on the floor and bitch it one another all the time.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
Yeah, this is just like that. And they but I
thought it was clever where he's like, no, no, I
trapped him there, We did this right, like it was
actually a better plan than it seems to be.

Speaker 3 (52:20):
Ye, once he starts drinking, he can get his shit together.

Speaker 4 (52:23):
Yeah, and he's you know the fact, he's like, okay,
so this is the night where evil works against evil.
Don't try this at home. But we're going to do this,
and he's like, what evil against evil? Yeah, yeah, trust me,
we're going to do this. And then it turns out
that he's able to truly do that, which leads to
the first time I can remember bats against vampires, which

(52:45):
is crazy, and there's a you know, animated bats flying
around the ritual room and.

Speaker 5 (52:50):
The rubber bats from Worth's apparently.

Speaker 4 (52:53):
Yeah, all the you know, all the bats, but you know,
to me, it was like seeing you know, Alu Card
in Castlevania games send bats against Dracula. That's kind of like, oh, weha,
I haven't seen that. Like that's that's crazy. He's something,
he's truly doing that, Like that was original. It's I mean,
it kind of wraps up really quickly. Yes, you know,

(53:14):
the time between hey, I'm gonna do this ritual, let's
just do it is feels very short at the end.
I kind of wish there was there could have been
some other build up, but it's so novel that that's actually,
you know, I'm fine with it overall.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
They could have planted the seed earlier, like little little
pinches to indicate there's a there's a ritual that he's playing,
you know.

Speaker 4 (53:38):
Or it won't work if they do this, because there's
once they're trapped, they're just all kind of browsing at
each other. Then then he sends bats after them. It's
a great scene though, Like, I you know, that was cool.

Speaker 5 (53:50):
Yeah, it's very funny all these brown rubber bats that
they're having to like hold up against their themselves.

Speaker 4 (53:56):
Right, and they're kind of floating in front of them.

Speaker 5 (53:58):
But the animated bats that go through the magically through
the walls somehow, yep.

Speaker 4 (54:05):
I do like that they're that they are sufficiently freaked out,
like they've never had a worry since they've become vampires,
and so the idea that they would be getting attacked
just that's an extra level. Once things go south, they
really just that's it, you know. Yeah, And I thought
that dynamic was was interesting. Usually you'll have to kind

(54:27):
of be stow it to the end or like I'm
a vampire, you can't do this to me. But not
in this case, right, like, oh no, this is happening,
this is never this is terrible.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
I'm trying to remember if the cultists in Rocky Horror
turn on on the Doctor this way, because I could
swear they do that. There's a point where they're like
they're like bitching at him a lot, because obviously that's
based on this and I'm just trying to remember what.

Speaker 6 (54:53):
The the other Transylvanians don't turn on Frank and Furter.
What you're thinking of is riff ra is hunch, Yes, yes, yeah,
but I mean it's you know, this is stuff. You know,
we're talking about, stuff like the the infighting with the cult.

(55:14):
Actually I could probably have a little more of that,
because that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
The problem is there's so much good stuff here that
if you picked any one thing to make the movie
more about, like if like you could do really the
whole movie kind of center around the gaslighting thing and
getting your wife back, or you could kind of do
it kind of centered around this cult or centered you know,
like like you could like elevate any of these pieces,
but you'd make it such that you didn't even have

(55:41):
time for half the other stuff like it, Uh, it
could be really hard. I'm I'm a this is this
is an embarrassment of riches though, because if you just
kind of go with it like this, this is a
ninety minute movie that tips it tatted a whole bunch
of ideas that that's pretty cool. All right, Is there
anything that we've missed? Uh? While we're or should we

(56:03):
wrap up? There is? There is one thing actually that
I just remembered, which is there's always in these movies
a safe place. It's kind of funny that, you know,
there's always the castle and then the town, and the
town is usually a pretty safe place, like the inn.
And although in this one it's kind of turned on
its head because the end turns out that they're they're corrupted,

(56:23):
They're they're going to be part of the gas lighting plot.
But I just love how you can You could create
a bingo card for hammer and and and play it,
so okay, or a hammer drinking game, any of those things. Uh,
we should do that. Like before we do taste the
blood of Dracula or Dracula's risen from the grave, we
need to create a hammer drinking game.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
None of us drinks really, yeah, not particularly.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
Consulted.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Monster have we have to do caffeine and then like
just watch just get more and more wired.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
So okay, let us get our final thoughts. We went
it was Tony Julia Drew and then I'll go and
then we'll do endorsements, so Tony. I mean, I know
we've been all over the place we're talking about this,
just like fans who are like just kind of excited
to talk about it, and that I blame myself for
not being prosaic and going one step at a time.

(57:24):
But having said all that, because of the vampire, Like,
what are your final thoughts?

Speaker 4 (57:28):
No, I really I really like the movie. I think
it's cool that it does different stuff. You know, like
I said, the pacing towards the end, it would have
been nice to have maybe changed that dynamic a little bit,
but that's come second guessing what they were doing. You
know that That's just kind of how I feel about it.
But I think there's a lot of interesting stuff, and

(57:49):
I think that I like that we're doing these films
that aren't the perhaps more traditional ones, you know, as
we kind of dig deeper and deeper. Yeah, I think
there's there's a lot here. And as we've said, you know,
throughout the original things that are in it really work
in its favor. And uh, and you know, you still

(58:11):
get all the good hammer stuff, you know, improvised crosses,
you know, deep red, bloody, crazy van helsing substitutes where
they get you know, different stuff like that. So I yeah,
I really enjoyed it and it's a good discussion. I
like doing these deeper cuts.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
It's great, good, Thank you very much, Julia, what about you?

Speaker 5 (58:32):
Yeah, it's been fun conversations. This is such a multi
layered film. I mean, because we talk about the Hammerscape,
we talk about you know, sets and scores and acting
and vampires or whatever, but this one you also get
a lot of the more complex.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
You know issues of you know, the gas lighting.

Speaker 5 (58:50):
And the cultural like what's going on in the in
the nineteen sixty three that affects this and what has
it influenced and what's going on with these reallys So
I love that it's it has so much that there
was so much to talk about, and it's just a
really neat, neat film.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (59:07):
It is beautiful, like you said, like the sets and
the costumes fantastic.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yeah, I agree, true, what about you?

Speaker 6 (59:14):
A really fun movie, really fun discussion. Always good to
be talking about hammer. I think, uh, the intersection of
a lot of our various different tastes meet the Hammer.
So I think that's that's why often these movies are
our best discussions. I think that this is interesting in

(59:40):
how much of a Hammer movie it is, but also
how different it is from a lot of the other ones.
And I hope that, you know, people continue to discover
it because I think it is kind of an overlooked
camera movie.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Excellent, thank you. I just really this. This is one
that I think I I always loved from being a
kid Dracula movies, like like Scars of Dracula and Horror
of Dracula and stuff like that. But I think that
it was when I discovered Kiss of the Vampire that
suddenly it kind of clicked for me that there was
a thing called Hammer and it had a look and

(01:00:17):
a feel and and you could kind of go back
to it over and over again. So and it's these
non Dracula movies to me that really sell that that thing,
that there's a Hammer world and it's it's you know,
Dracula is a part of it, but it has this brand,
for want of a better word, so nice, nicely done.

(01:00:38):
All right, let's get our endorsements. And by the way,
we're gonna we're gonna come back to Hammer, don't you worry.
I think we're gonna come back to Hammer pretty quickly.
Let's get our endorsements, same order. It was Tony Julia
Drew and then I'll go, so, Tony, I mean, what
do you have for us this week?

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
I'm trying to think, I, you know, seen a bunch
of stuff, but I really liked I've been really enjoying
the show Duster, which is I like, I like what
they're doing. You know, I'm still I'm still a fan of.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:01:12):
I just like the seventies crime aspect of it. Josh
Holloway is great, and I was telling Jason he just
reminds me of a I'm you know, being a big
nerd like I was into Gotchaman. We've talked about that,
but he feels like Joe, like some some form of
Joe from Gotcha Moan uh, you know. And I that's
one of the things. I'm trying to think. What other

(01:01:35):
movies and shows I've been watching. It's been a bunch
of stuff, but I've had a lot of other things
going on. I also have been playing this game called
Carrion that I got. It was on sale on PlayStation
and I don't know, maybe on so elsewhere, but it's
basically you're basically playing some version of the Thing and
deadly Prey, so you are. You start out as this

(01:01:58):
creature that keeps evolving as you get more powerful by
spicing your DNA with these things and attacking this base
full of humans. And it's kind of an interesting like
the creature looks great, like like I said, it's got
all these mouths like deadly spawn, and you know, it's
it's interesting to play the evil creature. But it's also,

(01:02:18):
like I said, like the thing, like you can possess
eventually you can possess people. And you know, it's a
really cool kind of Metroidvania style game playing, you know,
because a lot of horror games that are kind of
that asymmetrical you're playing these iconic characters. So there's you know,
a Killer Clowns game and you know, Friday the thirteenth
and a Texas Changeaw massacre. This is kind of a

(01:02:41):
more two D, but there's you know, kind of two
point five D elements to it the way they I've
been really enjoying that. That's been my horror thing. I
haven't watched a lot of horror recently other than this,
but I've been getting my horror kicks through this game. Carrion,
which I do recommend if you want to play, if
you want to play the thing with a little bit

(01:03:02):
of the feeling of deadly spawn like this is this
is the one if you also, you know, it helps
if you like metro Bania style games. But I really
enjoyed it, and I think there's a demo that's free tooth.
That's what I've been enjoying.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Nice. Thank you very much, Julia. What about you?

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
Well, my number one endorsement is going to be four
seasons the TV show on Netflix.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
It was so good.

Speaker 5 (01:03:27):
It starts Steve Corell and Tina Fey and Coleman Domingo
and it's just a bunch of people learn it and
it's really really fun, very surprising. Every episode just moves
like so quickly and all this shocking stuff. Like there's
so many times when I was just.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Like what, no way, oh my god. A really good show.

Speaker 5 (01:03:46):
Also, we went to see let's see I'll let you
talk about if you want to Final Destination Bloodlines, which
was alight.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
Oh yeah, thing.

Speaker 5 (01:03:53):
But we also did go to see Mission Impossible, and
so I'd say I'd say I'd say about half of
it is like ten out of ten and the other
half is like six out of ten. I felt like
it went too long, and there was some some draggy parts,
but gosh, the parts that are exciting and amazing are
just out of this world exciting and amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
Uh I feel you there?

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Actually, yeah, yeah, I mean stuff that you may never like.
You can't believe you're seeing, the stuff in the whole
sequence involving the bottom of the ocean and the submarine
and all of that. It's not literally an hour, but
it's a long sequence of a bunch of mini sequences
within it, and geez, but it's it's yeah, really cool.

(01:04:36):
It's like it's own Hunt for Red October in the
middle of everything else.

Speaker 3 (01:04:40):
Well, plus the airplanes, which is just crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
Right right right, Well, I mean but that my point
is that there's those.

Speaker 5 (01:04:46):
Two entire like parts of the movie where that just
goes on and on, and there's all this crazy stuff
for me.

Speaker 3 (01:04:52):
But yes, agreed, cool stuff true?

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
What about you?

Speaker 6 (01:04:55):
So? Over Memorial Day weekend, Jamie and I had a
brief adventure in the beautiful city of Lockhart, and we
enjoyed wandering around their downtown. But the main reason why
we went there is to check out Happy Haunt Books,
which is a horror bookstore that is literally underground. It

(01:05:21):
is in a basement, it's underneath a pizza restaurant, and
it is quite possibly the coolest bookstore.

Speaker 2 (01:05:30):
I've ever been in.

Speaker 6 (01:05:31):
It has to to get to the bookstore itself, you
have to go down a staircase that is that He's
literally wallpapered it with old drag yella masks.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
And you know it's It's got basically every horror book
you could imagine.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
And that sounds amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
It's it's wonderful and just can't recommend it enough. If
you are in the area or.

Speaker 6 (01:06:01):
You're traveling through the area and you have an interest
in the genre, you should check out how Behind Books Nice.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
That's really great, Thank you very much. Did I mention
Dominic on fem Future Perfect last week? I can't remember
if I if I did or not? So if if
that doesn't sound familiar, or if I if I did
and we've just forgotten? So on Future Perfect, what's.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
That It's been a while, so I don't think so okay.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
Future Perfect is a podcast that a colleague of mine,
Jimmy Kawamoto, writes for, and she wrote a sort of
not a full adaptation, but something in the world of
the book Dominic that Castlebridge Media published, which is about
a satanic ventrolust dummy that is really angry at its

(01:06:50):
much more famous little sister who became a big star
in the seventies, and so it's about this just lifelong
hatred and rival read between this famous movie star and
a ventrilocostummy. And they did a you know, she did
a like a short episode of fem Future Perfect, which
always is a podcast sci fi podcast with a feminist

(01:07:12):
angle based on Dominant and I'm super stoked about that,
so you should check that out. Is the fem Future
Perfect podcast episode Dominic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, And yes,
we did also see well, we did also see Final
Destination and it it was a blast from beginning to end.

(01:07:32):
We just had a really good time with it. So,
you know, even though, like I think, what I enjoyed
the most watching it is just the idea that death
is this like pissy force of nature that likes to
kill people with Rube Goldberg devices. That's just a weird concept,
and it's it's funny that it's just kept going, like

(01:07:55):
they just keep doing these things, so it's I don't know,
I loved it it was neat.

Speaker 3 (01:07:59):
It's fun. Yeah, yeah, very very gory.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Really gory, and yet we had a good time with
it because it's so bonkers that you don't for a
minute like really care, you know, so I don't know,
maybe it's dehumanizing, but basically their cartoon characters, you know,
death is just always trying to figure out and basically
you watch the movie as though it's a Where's Welder game,
because you watch it and you go, oh, there's a

(01:08:24):
there's a fan back there. I don't like the looks
of that fan. You try to pick, like what's going
to go?

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
Checkovs? Checkofs? You know, water hose writing one more?

Speaker 5 (01:08:34):
Yeah, exactly, well check off one more. I don't want
to spoil it was like check out.

Speaker 4 (01:08:38):
It was Actually what's funny is people always talk about
the log truck, and you know, I grew up where
pulpwood trucks were just the thing then well before that,
I always just had these visions like, man, this is
so bad to be by. They're often just super rickety
as well. Yes, And you know, it wasn't until the

(01:08:59):
movie came out where I realized that, look, here's a
collective terrible thing. But I've I drove for you know,
a better part of a decade at least behind all
manner of sketchy pulpwood trucks. Yes, and just with with
the idea of I'm surprised a log more logs don't
slide through the fronts of cars all the time, absolutely,

(01:09:23):
because at best most of them have Hey look we're
halling all this wood. If we think chains will work,
and oh well we hung a red rag. That'll tell
you that. It's like how close you can get? That's fine, right,
Like that's how it was. And so it's fascinating to
me once those movies came out and I was like, yeah,
now you know, now you feel what I've been feeling

(01:09:45):
from this time because you know back roads, the back
roads in Mississippi and you know some in Texas and
especially East Texas, like being behind those is yeah, it
was scary. And I always envisioned that glad we could
collectively as a film culture get behind this thing that's scary.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
It's become a part of you sure it's well.

Speaker 4 (01:10:08):
They did an advertisement where they had a you know,
they had trucks and they had a fake log backdrop
on the back as a as a tie into the movie.
They were driving them around. That was pretty crazy. But
like I said, like I always like, you know, I
knew people would never experience driving behind those And then

(01:10:28):
once the film came out, that's scary. Oh my god,
I just noticed that, Like, yeah, it is scary. I
just that phenomenon. It's always fascinating me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Jeffrey Reddick, who is the most honestly one of the
most delightful horror writers on the planet. And he is
he calls himself I can't even remember, but but basically
he came from the Deep South and he came up
with that log truck scene, and you know, he's this
is what did he call himself, Something like a gay hillbilly,

(01:11:01):
like a gay biracial man from Kentucky who went to
Hollywood and created the log truck scene and Final Destination.
I mean, he's such an interesting and wonderful dude. And
by the way, Castle well sorry, the Colorado Festival before
he's there like every year, so I keep getting a
chance to talk to him. But it is so wild

(01:11:23):
that somebody finally put that thing on film and it's
part of our culture now. Like even people who don't
like Final Destination movies know about that scene. Yeah, anyway,
cool stuff. All right, We will be back for a Hammer.
I don't know if it's next week, probably a couple
of weeks because we're on at least a two week thing.

(01:11:45):
Now we're getting into summer so it gets a little tougher.
But we will definitely be back soon, probably with some
more Hammer Draculas, because there are several that we haven't done,
and so there's at least one Hammer Frankenstein we haven't done,
and so yeah, oh you know, we haven't done Countess Dracula,
which is a bathery movie. But still so there's that.

Speaker 5 (01:12:04):
I would say next week because we'll be out the
week after that, so I think probably next week.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
Many of us, well, that's a Dracula movie and it's
either Dracula's Risen or taste of Blood, so we'll find out.
Thank you everybody, Everybody be kind to one another. Life's
tough out there, so all we really have is each other.
Thank you guys. You make me happy that you're a
part of my life, and I will I will talk
to you guys soon. Thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:12:29):
Hey here, take care.

Speaker 1 (01:12:30):
Bye.