Scream of the Wolf (1974) - Podcast/Discussion

Scream of the Wolf is a 1974 American made-for-television horror-thriller film starring Peter Graves and Clint Walker and directed by Dan Curtis with a script by Richard Matheson (for context this is a year after he did Legend of Hell House and the same year that he and Dan Curtis would do Dracula with Jack Palance. It originally aired as the ABC Movie of the Week on January 16, 1974.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Castle of Horror, the show dedicated
to horror movies and awesomeness. We are a feed spot
top one hundred horror podcast, and this week we have
a look at the nineteen seventy four TV film Scream
of the Wolf. This is episode four hundred and sixty five.
Bear in mind if you haven't seen today's movie, we're
going to be talking about it from the perspective of
horror fans who have seen it, So warning spoilers ahead.

(00:29):
From Denver, Colorado, I'm your host, Jason Henderson, publisher at
Castlebridge Media, home of the Castle of Horror anthology. With
me for Austin is Tony Sabaggio, lead singer and bassis
of the band Deserts of Mars and lead guitarist of
the band Rise from Fire. Say Hello, Tony, how Howdy?
Also in Austin. Mister Drew Edwards is the writer creator
of the long running underground comic Halloween Man, which you

(00:51):
can find the Global Comics. He is a Best Writer
Ringo nominee, Austin Chronicle Best of Austin Award winner and
a member of the Pan America Fellowship. And I'm not
even sure it's true to call it an underground comic.
You have a major publisher, now.

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, I know we we might be time for a
new intro. I was actually literally just thinking that.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Was publishing the collection.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Who's publishing Red five Comics and it's distributed by Simon
and Schuster, which is like, you know, not underground. Yeah,
I know, I will, well, I'll, i'll, i'll, I'll hit
you up with the new new information.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Like you know, as you said that, I was literally
thinking the same thing. I was like, oh, wow, this
is I understand.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Anything on this screen in front of me, I will
read it.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
You were you were the Ron Burgundy of horror movie podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Just any anything, if it's on this on this screen
right here. So finally, also in Denver, color commentary from
Julian because mind Immigration of Denver, Terror of a La Colorado.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Say hello, hello, everybody, Hello.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Hello, Hello's listen to us and how we're all coming
up in the world and as only the way a
group of middle aged people can.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, middle aged podcaster has been working together for something
like thirteen years. You know, eventually jobs change. Mine doesn't.
But that's okay, all right. Scream of the Wolf is
a nineteen seventy four American made for TV horror film
starring Peter Graves and a rather amazing Clint Walker, directed
by Dan Curtis with a script by Richard Matheson. And

(02:39):
for context, this is a year after Richard Matheson did
Legend of hell House and the same year that he
and Dan Curtis would do Dracula with Jack Palance. So
this is a very very busy time for two TV greats.
So Richard Matheson and Dan Curtis working together a lot.
This film originally aired as a as an ABC Movie

(03:01):
of the Week January sixteenth, nineteen seventy four. We wound
up doing this because, I mean, it was suggested by
John Logan, our friend, and we were like, that sounds
like a fantastic follow up to last week's Moon of
the Wolf. So let's get our opening thoughts, Tony, it
is thy turn, so let's go Tony. Julia and Drew

(03:23):
opening thoughts, nineteen seventy four, Scream of the Wolf.

Speaker 4 (03:27):
I'm surprised this one wasn't also a Mystery of the
Week because it's plenty. It's got plenty of mystery. I
like the previous movie more, but I think this is
a really good back to back, Like the two back
to back is really great. So kudos to John for suggesting,
you know, for turns onto this. That's super cool. I

(03:48):
think it's got enough great characters and the mystery parts
interesting and again, you know, watching old TV movies full
of old TV fashions and uh, you know kind of
the the actors of the day turning in cool performances.
I yeah, I do dig all of that, griovy scores

(04:11):
all that. You know, there needs to be more box
sets of TV movies. I think I wish that they
would turn on the archives, and that's that's, sadly, what
we'd hope once everybody decided to have their own individual
streaming service where oh well they'll just put up all
of their stuff they have, right, And that has not
been the case, and that's a huge bumber.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
But it is the case with this one. I mean,
you know, Scream of the Wolf is available, has been
made available all through the streaming services.

Speaker 4 (04:39):
And yeah, this is also on TV. It's the Prince
is a little rough. It looks like it's got kind
of strange. Yes, there's some strange almost film artifacts, which
is weird, but you know, I'll again, I don't. That's
not a huge deal for me. Uh yeah, I like
the maybe I'm looking forward to the discussion. By the way,
there is another Scream of the Wolf that's like not

(05:00):
too long ago, but I don't think it's right, so
I think it's just Also.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
It's not as I have seen that one. It is
not it's not a remake, and it is definitely not
as good as.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
This, although that seems like it was probably three D
because I saw the trailer for that one and it
was like all this stuff pointing at the screen.

Speaker 4 (05:22):
Oh nice, Although is it the scream of the wolf
actually just a howl?

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Is it?

Speaker 4 (05:28):
Is that a mystery? But it sounds like anyway, Yeah,
I'm I'm looking forward to talking more about it.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Excellent. Okay, Julia, we watched this I think yesterday and
what a blast. What are your thoughts?

Speaker 3 (05:39):
Yeah, it was fun. Uh I watched. I was watching
the trailer for it, and that's why I accidentally watched
the other trailer because I was like, wait, is this
the movie? And then uh no, it was not that one.
So then I watched trailer for this one, and I
was like, Okay, I know who the who the werewolf
is from the trailer because it was just so obvious.
So we're watching the whole film that to Tony's point

(06:00):
about it being a good mystery, it's like I was like, no,
I still think it's him, and Jason's like, I don't
think so that would be too obvious. And then there's
two little twists at the end, which I enjoyed. We'll
get to them. But so, yeah, but I think the
characters were really good. I yeah, it was interesting that
it was there was like burn marks on the film.
It was very strange, like they just pulled it from um,

(06:23):
like they'd only have the one print or something, and
I'm trying to think there's anything else.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
You know.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
It's just a fun seven look, you know, kind of
I love these things where you just kind of get
thrown back into the time that it was made. And
this is definitely very seventies, very very seventies.

Speaker 4 (06:40):
Those pants, those suits, definitely so many turtle necks.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Turtle necks, and then the.

Speaker 4 (06:48):
Main actress, she has some really interesting seats full you
know for sure. Yeah, I was definitely have a time.
It's cool though, I like, I like taking survey of
all of that.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
I'm seeing that Jason is muted. I'm wondering if she
knows that.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
No, I did not know that I was muted. But
you didn't miss anything. I was just agreeing with you wholeheartedly.
So that's yeah, okay, uh, Drew, what about you?

Speaker 2 (07:15):
So when John friend of the podcast John Logan emailed
me suggesting this movie, he called it the first gay
were wolf movie. And I think that is a very
astute observation. I think there is a lot of Yeah,
I think there is a lot of different subtext going

(07:36):
on in here, some that is probably intentional and some
that is probably not intentional. But yeah, I think this
is really enjoyable. You know, we're all Dan Curtis fans
to one level or another on that one. And you know,
last week I said that one, the Moon of the

(07:56):
Wolf kind of felt like a lost could shack. This one,
of course, really feels like that because it's the people
who brought you call Jack, So like, it's weird that
there isn't a cleaned up version of this when you
think about that, because you know, Richard matheson Dan Curtis

(08:17):
and that pairing is considered kind of significant in terms
of TV horror and here we have a werewolf movie
of sorts with that creative team on it. So you
would think that there would have been more attempts to
have more of an archival curated version that looks nicer.

(08:40):
But you know whatever, I really like the performances. I
actually kind of wonder if this movie was a bit
of an influence on the Hannibal TV show because the
relationship between the two guys kind of echoed that a
bit to me in the way that the homo eroticism was.

(09:03):
But man, yeah, this this is this is such a
time capsule. It's it's a lot of fun. If you're
expecting a full on monster movie, you you will probably
be disappointed, and you should watch Moon of the Wolf instead,
because that one actually has a proper werewolf in it,

(09:25):
whereas this will leave you disappointed depending on it. But
I I I have seen so many were wolf movies
that I at this point I'm sort of okay with
the variation on the theme here because I thought the
characters were engaging enough that I was just like, Okay,
I'm along for this ride.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
I liked the ending, by the way, to your point
about it being super gaired to John point, I was
making Jason so annoyed by all my that's what she said.
There's so many that's I finally had to stop. I
just would look at him and he would just be.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Like, I don't. I wasn't growling or grumbling.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
Totally like just grow, you've grown, You've grown.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
And this is the seventies TV horror movie.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Julia, take it seriously, Okay, I want to go straight
into into the central relationship, and I think that the
gay subtext is I think super important here. But to
begin with the reason, I don't really even like, yes,
this is a werewolf mystery, and we've seen and for

(10:39):
some reason.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
Mystery in parentheses, right, But what's interesting is to me,
that's more an excuse for Richard Matheson to do kind of.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
A proto heat. You know, how how you've got you've
got a pretty like like we the audience have a
pretty good idea of who the werewolf is or who
the bad guy is. But never the less, there's such
there's this intense relationship between the two, and I think
that's what what Matheson really wants to play with. So
so just to set up what's going on, you have
the Santa Monica in and around Santa Monica in the

(11:11):
in the mountains. I forget what they're called. I can't remember,
but uh, it's it's a California setting, a lot of
really nice sort of you know, beautiful Spanish style houses.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
It looks like Malibu to me.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
But yeah, it's it's lovely. But the but IMDb says
it's done around Santa Monica. It's very California and everybody
are Our characters are all pretty well appointed, like, uh,
Peter Graves.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
This is a much much, much better looking group of
people than the people in Moon of the Wolf Right.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
It's not as sweaty and lived in as the least
this is.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
These are Hollywood people. They have square jaws.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yes, And I was very much getting like the style
of this story reminded me a lot of CBS Radio
Mystery Theater, where you kind of had a classic tell
me a story, and we're going to have a writer
and he gets along real well with the police, and
the police bring him in on cases like there's a
there's an artificiality to it, or maybe a heightened reality
that I'm there. I'm like, sure, okay.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
Versions, I said, the comic versions of all these people
turned up in the g I Joe. Yes, like Power records,
G I Joe. All the square jaw like, you know,
ruggedly handsome guys battling it out. You know, remind me
of those Power records. Like those, the comic versions of
them were in those Power records.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
G I Joe. Thanks, right, And and when you're in
I guess Johnny Quest as well, Right, you just go
with it. You go with the fact that Johnny Quest
is around, and and he goes to the local sheriff,
and from now on the mystery is going on, and
Johnny's just going to walk along with the sheriff. Same
thing here. Peter Graves is a writer, okay, in a
nice sort of mansion that that he's got, and he

(12:54):
wears turtlenecks and and sport coats and it is on
a get off again dating this nice girl that runs
a coffee shop, and the police bring him in to
investigate a bunch of mysterious animal.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Deaths manglings like particularly brutal animal attacks.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Ripped off your face kind of thing. Yeah. And and
for what it's worth, those those killings are filmed very
very well. I mean, they're scary. They seem the only
difference between this and something you'd see in a movie
theater is you would have had a lot more blood.
But other than that, they are real intense and real scary.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
There the quote unquote were wolf attacks in this are
actually way more frightening than the ones in Moon of
the Wolf that had had a real wear wolf in it,
because like what happened in Moon of the Wolf is
every time an attack would start, they would they would
have the cut to commercial, and then you would have

(13:51):
the aftermath of the attack, whereas here you have this
really frankly quite great growling sound effect and you see
like a car being wrenched apart, and you know that
that stuff is all, you know, pretty intense, you know

(14:12):
for a TV movie anyway.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Oh very much, yes, you know. And I love how
fast the camera moves. I mean, Dan Curtis, uh, you know,
you follow his first person camera as it zooms towards
the car that's attacking. You know, where this this first
victim is standing, and suddenly you're inside the car and
the windows are being bashed in and the roof is
being torn up. You know it's a cloth roof, and

(14:36):
and yeah, very scary anyway. So these mysterious murders are happening,
and Peter Graves is on the case.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Well, they bring him in not because he's a writer,
but because he's he's also you know, as as with
with the you know, classy gentleman of a certain era,
he is also known to be a big game hunter.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Big game hunter. Sure, yes, you know. And and so
they're they're investing, they're investigating together, and Peter Graves says
in passing, you know, maybe I should go ask Byron
about this. And Byron like all good, Like a lot
of good characters who you hear about long before they
actually show up on screen. Everybody has an opinion, you know,
when you take acting classes, they always say that your character,

(15:19):
you know, you learn about your character from your character,
what they do, and also what other characters think about
that character. And this is a character that the other
characters are thinking about long before he shows up. So
we're like, gosh, well I hope he's impressive, because because
everybody's making a big deal about Byron. And when Byron
finally shows up, because Peter Graves goes out to see him,

(15:43):
he is, oh, I describe this guy.

Speaker 3 (15:46):
Uh, Julia I said he was like Charlton Heston meets
John Wayne and I can't remember who the third person was,
but there's somebody else, but like the more elegant person.
But he is he's he's definitely a man's man.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
You know.

Speaker 1 (15:59):
He has this lantern jaw, He has these high cheekbones.
He has this tuft of hair that sort of hangs
lankly across his forehead. He has this deep, resonant voice.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Well, you described him as Doc Savage looking, and I
think that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
If he were blonde, he would look like Doc Savage.
It would absolutely look like Doc Savage. And it's an
amazing and he's in like, you know, he's very tall,
he's in terrific shape. So he's this you know, manly man.
But what's interesting is immediately you begin to learn and
this is what the rest of the movie winds up
being about. We can just talk about intermittent scenes here

(16:39):
and there, but as they investigate these murders, we also
are we're introduced to the main rivalry going on in
this movie, which is whether whether Byron, who is a
great hunter and a violent one who loves the danger
of the hunt, whether he can convince Peter Graves to
give up his piece full, you know, latantly heterosexual life

(17:05):
with the lovely Joanne Flug and give all that up
and be part of the I feel alive because I'm
in danger, sweaty man's world, manly man world of hanging
out with Byron and hunting.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
Yes, as soon as we meet Byron. By the way,
the first thing you see is some random guy just
kind of coming out of some part of his house
and you're like, who's that. Right later you find out
that he, uh, what was it that he said about.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
The hes a living man servant that he hired because
he could stand up to him during arm wrestling.

Speaker 3 (17:41):
Right, yes, arm wrestling right right right? I was like, oh,
that's why.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
So here's the thing this is, like, there's so many
readings of this because once again heat gives you is
al Pacino going to be part of the daylight world
of his wife and the other cops, part of the
danger world of the connection that it has with with
Robert de Niro, And that doesn't have to be a
sexual thing, but there's certainly a coded reading of it.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Well, I I think the way this is framed it
feels very sexual and.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Also it's hard to avoid.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, it's it's I mean, it's it's barely subtext. It's
it's it's basically text. But but also there's kind.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
Of it's like the male Risolian isles. They're just like
they're all but name this is that these are lovers
who have moved on from one another. Yeah, and but
but but but this is Dan Curtis and Richard Matheson
we're talking about now, Dan Curtis. I cannot get a
beat on Dan Curtis. Dan Curtis is, Dan Curtis was
not a gay man. But Dark Shadows was a show

(18:55):
famously written by two gay men whose name is escaping
right now, but also star Jonathan who was a gay man,
and started the guy who played Roger was a gay man.
It was a very very very very flambuoyant show.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
And yet if you look at the documentaries about it,
people talk about Dan Curtis as being homophobic himself.

Speaker 3 (19:13):
So is it possible might have been closeted?

Speaker 2 (19:15):
Well? Also, I feel like the way that this movie
treats like, even though there is a queer subtext, it's
it's not entirely kind because like, okay, let's let's just like, yeah, okay,
put this out put this out there. So the Byron character,
let's say that he is, you know, gay, and he's

(19:39):
trying to seduce, say the the bisexual Peter Graves, because
Peter Graves is kind of you know the way. And
I'm not saying that all bisexual people are like this.
Don't don't, don't take this this the wrong way, but
I'm saying the way this movie presents it, he is
stuck in between a heteronormative seeming relations ship and you

(20:01):
know this, this this version of homosexuality, which by the way,
is kind of you know, Byron has this like weird,
very sort of misogynistic but also sort of almost fascistic
viewpoint of the world.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
So this movie's yeah, we haven't even gotten to the
rest of us.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah, this movie's view of homosexuality is not entirely kind
if we are to so like you could I'm not
saying that this was intentional, but you could say that
there is a possibly homophobic read of this movie, and

(20:46):
I might get an email from John later going no, no, no,
You're completely wrong about this, Drew, and I will accept that.
I'm just saying this was my reaction.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
We're concretizing some stuff yeah, I I.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Well, you know, the thing that's fun about this movie
is there is a lot because as a contemporary person,
you know, not a person a person that's seeing this
for the first time. In twenty twenty five. One of
my other reactions to this was a lot of the
things that come out of this guy's mouth sound like
like Andrew Tate.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Like, so tell me, bullet out for me, the manisphere
world of virus.

Speaker 3 (21:25):
You're making you're making this sound like it's it's the
Manos hands of fate sphere.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
I mean, maybe hold out for me, the manisphere world.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
Well, he's talking a lot about how, you know, contemporary
men are emasculated, and you know, like, oh, I like
to see a man get angry. You know, you should
feel angry. You know, men need to be violent, men
need to be you know, uh, you know, and women

(21:56):
women cut off your vital energy.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
You know.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
He says stuff like, you know that's very you know, like, oh, well, woman,
you know having a woman around is just going to
make you weak. You know a lot of stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Grant believe that, Carrie Grant believe that having sex with
a woman would take your spirit away.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Well, and there are a lot of a lot of
people in in the sort of.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Foxers that you should but there are.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
And there are a lot of people in that sort
of far right sphere that will abstain from having sex
because of similar viewpoints or you know, also there is
my personal theory maybe people just won't have sex with
them because they're pricks. But you know, I like to

(22:44):
think that I'm right about that. But you know, the
the so this guy you know, like is very obviously
the killer from from France. Whether or not he's a
werewolf is sort of irrelevant. You know, he does say
a lot about predatation. You know, he talks about predators
a lot because like every fascist out there, like he

(23:07):
romanticizes predator prey relationships while completely getting the way predatory
animals actually behaved. Is completely wrong because he just made
it's bad zoology. It's like the whole, like I mean,
the whole, the whole, if I may, if I may,

(23:28):
zoology drew for a second. The whole concept of an
alpha male is based off of outdated science. It's not
actually how wolves work. And you know, the idea that
you know that there is some sort of moral framework,

(23:48):
like like being a predatory animal does not make you
inherently vicious or evil. Like what people always misunderstand about
actual wolves and not wear wolves is that wolves, you know,
despite their capacity for being ferocish, can also be Wolves
are good parents. Wolves are you know, loyal to their mates.

(24:10):
They're loyal, you know, they're loyal to their families. You know,
there's a lot that's very you know, genteel about wolves.
So this idea that like wolves are walking around thinking, well,
I'm a predator, I have to get into a fight,
you know, twenty four to ten, Like that's I mean, yes,
wolves are tough, you know, predatory animals have to be tough,

(24:31):
but they're also more than that. And so it's just
it's bad basic zoology that tries to put human morals
onto animals, which is ridiculous once you look at it
from that standpoint. But this guy espouses a lot of
philosophy based off of that, which basically makes him a

(24:52):
psychopath from frame one, like he's so intense and so
off put like despite the fact that he is this
ridicu caelessly handsome man, everything about him is off putting,
Like he's so dislikable that people will have to conform
like random hippie guys are confronting him at a bar.

(25:12):
He's such an embraceive asshole. The sheriff from the talks
to him for like a minute, and it's like, well,
this guy's a douche.

Speaker 1 (25:19):
I don't want to talk to that guy. Can you
go talk to that guy?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
So, like, he's very clearly a psychopath and he's fascinating,
but he's also an asshole.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
And yet if you if you can picture think about
the like, this is where the romance aspect is so clear,
because Peter Graves is is you can call it romantic,
or you could give it a reading that's not. But
Peter Graves is clearly super duper attracted to Byron's world
and Byron like he is, he is part of that

(25:52):
web and he's gonna kind of stay there until you know.
And and by the way, drama is full of characters
like this because inherit the wind at the at the end,
the monkey scope, the Monkey trial is just an excuse
for really this very interesting tete tet between you know,
Drummond and Brady where they can't escape one another and

(26:15):
only one is going to survive.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
So what do you think about the fact that okay,
So going along with the you know, the the beginning
of the movie, he you know, we see the guy
that turns out to be his man sermon that he
hired because he likes arm wrestling with him, and then
he arm wrestles with Peter Graves. But presumably this time
he's able to defeat him. So because and now that

(26:39):
we know and I'm just gonna spoil because this is
what we do in the show, now that we know,
he's not actually aware, well, why is he so much
stronger now? Like why was it that before probably Peter
could like apparently last for hours.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
No sitting in front of it.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
By the way, that was one of the that's what
she said, was you know something like you used to
be able to last.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah. I was really surprised it'd be so like like
this is almost a wrestling match, like it's almost like judo.
But no, but it's all right. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
I think in his head he thinks of himself as
almost a where wolf like I. I I think he
where where wolf free is something he aspires towards and
that's why he chose it is the way he he
frames his crimes. So like I think his physicality is

(27:43):
something that he has probably worked on maintaining. Whereas Peter
Graves is you know, he's an author. Now he's just
hanging around drinking coffee, sitting in front of a typewriter,
you know, like I used to be. I used to
be crazy in shape when I was in my twenties
up into my thirties, and you know, like the more
time I spend it, you know, on my career aging.

Speaker 3 (28:06):
But I guess you're right, that's he's been well.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
I mean, a guy that's, you know, fifty five that
pumps iron is still going to be stronger than a
guy that's fifty five and does nothing but sit in
front of a keyboard all day.

Speaker 4 (28:21):
Well, let's not forget. Like you said, he's also sleeping
with women.

Speaker 3 (28:29):
You said, the bar hussey, the bar hussy is sapping
all his energy.

Speaker 4 (28:32):
All his energy. No, if we're to believe, if we're
to believe his rhetoric, that is what another that's another
strike against our Europe.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
I'll let you know.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
What's funny though, is the politics of it too. If
you watch they you know there's clearly a villain. But
the bar scene that you're talking about that you mentioned,
where he gets in the fight. It's clearly like, look
what hippies will stir up? Yes, wrap out out of
the You know the guy who's like, you know, more
of a pacifist like you, who are you to hunt animals?

(29:06):
You know, he's definitely now nowadays, I'm totally down with,
like you know, when when animals are hunted they turn
against the hunter. I'm I'm all for that, right because
we know. But like how they frame it is definitely
a see how scared that hippie gut?

Speaker 1 (29:21):
That's what real.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
But at the same time, but at the same time,
what is the coffee shop gal's name? Yeah, so she
is also off plut by his behavior, and she is
one hundred percent right about everything throughout this entire moment,
Like this movie would be forty five minutes shorter if

(29:44):
everybody just listens to her.

Speaker 4 (29:46):
Oh no, absolutely, But like I said, when you when
you look at how it's framed and what the intent is,
it's definitely.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
A well I mean, oh, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Look for the hipp record for the record, I you know,
going with my zoology slight tangent or full on tangent earlier,
I disagree with it with the Hippie as well, because
he again is putting human morality on the animal kingdom.
Being predatory is evil, Being herbivorous is not evil, whereas

(30:23):
like that doesn't work because there's plenty of planting being
animals that will fuck you up, like a hippo. Hippos
killed more people every year than crocodiles and sharks, and
you know they are plant eating as a.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Few blood drinking plants while we're at it.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, I can't bally.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
I mean, you're right, but he's not as much talking like, yes,
it's it's its own kind of okay, man, I get it.
But also he is like, hey, you know, you're kind
of a jackass for being a big game hunter.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
You're supposed to find it's really interesting this scene. Madison
is a very interesting writer. So in this scene you
were supposed to be. Up until that point, you're like, Jesus, Byron,
what a jackass. But then Hippie walks up and you're like, man,
that guy's a douche. Like like so you know, they
they turn it around and and Byron and so.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
I don't know because like my read of that scene
is different because I don't think you're supposed to necessarily
take a sight with either of those guys, because Byron
looks insane, and.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
That's I think that like.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
To kill this He's threatening to kill this guy for
expressing and I do not.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Approve of that.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
Well, yeah, but that's why I'm talking about why the
politics are what they are. There's plenty of yeah, John
Wayne should have shot that guy, and you know, it's okay,
Like I mean, we're back to that.

Speaker 1 (31:54):
It is very nil.

Speaker 4 (31:55):
But also the way it's set up is look what
the Look what the soft hippies will do when they're confronted.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
They freak out.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
That's real, man, I think most people, but I think
most people would freak out if confronted by by a
guy that's like six' four and and doesn't blink when
he talks To it's, LIKE.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
I want to get back for a moment to the
manisphere thing because it strikes me that all of this
is about because the, HIPPIE i, think is a code
for the feminization of, society and that's really What byron
is is all about complaining about. That that's his main
thesis is that man has gotten soft and men have gotten,

(32:40):
soft and hippies are like the prime example of.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
That, also it goes further because his friends are, like,
yeah you tell that big game, hunter and then as
soon as he freaks, out they all they're all looking away,
like oh, man who's that?

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Guy that's really?

Speaker 4 (32:56):
Funny, Yeah AND i, think BUT i think that's that's
hard about. It but that's what makes it a more
complex movie than it might see him on the surface
and the complexities of how it's. TOLD i JUST i
thought that was interesting because there was another MOVIE i
watched recently WHERE i was kind of surprised at the
Uh i'm trying to think what it, was but there

(33:18):
was a lot of coded like, see you got to
be a real man like this and not like this other.
Guy oh, yeah like watching it going oh, man, well.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
And setting aside the whole gaseu a subtext, conversation there's
plenty of room for that whole question of the weakening
of The american male from a sort of sort of
Middle american conservative viewpoint that is not is not gone
in nineteen seventy. FOUR i, mean so there's very much

(33:49):
this is very much a live conversation in nineteen seventy
four of what kind of men men are going to?
Be with The Vietnam war still a year from, ending
and you, KNOW.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
I think, CONVERSATION i Think byron kind of, represents even
though he is very clearly kind of, cracked he represents
like an, older almost romanticized, idea because like even by
the nineteen, seventies the idea of like a big game

(34:22):
hunter that was starting to become more of a.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah that's more of a.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Thing, yeah like it's it's something that seems like it's
from the romantic. Past and, now As tony pointed, out
like somebody that's like going around and shooting like elephants
and rhinos is just outright thought of as a. Dick you,
know like there's no question about. It it's not romantic at.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
All but in The, manisphere by the, way that's still
very much. Alive like if you want to earn points
with that side of the, internet you could. It, like you,
know if you were disgraced, Tomorrow, drew you could reinvent
yourself As, drew The manisphere, guy and like go big
game hunting and drink blood and you, know and and people, go,

(35:02):
Ah drew saw the, light.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
And, yeah yeah that's. Cool but you, know the the you,
know the other you, know So byron kind of seems
like it's not even weird to think of him in
terms of like aanthropy on top of everything, else because
he kind of seems like he has stepped out of
a different time pier because Like Peter, graves yes he's

(35:27):
done like the big game hunter, thing but he's a
much more contemporary feeling. Character you, know he's he's not
like hanging out in his big mansion and you, know
like he's in his little sports car and he's a.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Synthesis he's he's taken all these things and he's created
a new way of being a, man WHICH i find very.
ATTRACTIVE i mean that the notion that you would take
all of this stuff and you, say you, know there's
a new way forward without, being you, know a dangerous,
asshole like.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
You don't have to be a murderous. Psychopath it's, okay, yes.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
YEAH i just saw this line of dialogue Because i'm
playing the movie on the wall and And, byron you,
Know Peter graves, says those those deaths don't mean anything to,
you And byron, says you matter to, me not those
people who lost their. Lives and it's it's a sweet
thing for this crazy murderer to. Say he then, says
ar wrestle. Me but it's, yeah the dialogue is just

(36:24):
extraordinarily so.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Something romantic that you, know speaking of stuff that's below the,
surface just barely SOMETHING i was thinking about a lot
In this is like stuff they can't really talk about
ON tv at this time. Period, okay BUT i kind
of Think byron is probably a cannibal because they, think,

(36:48):
well they think that these people are being killed and
mangled by an. Animal but an animal is not just
going to disfigure a corpse for you, know like that's
something a person, does whereas you, know if an animal kills,
something they eat, it you, know even if it's just.

(37:08):
Partially SO i in my head think that there Is
and maybe this is just me Because lord, KNOWS i
have my own fixations THAT i can apply to. Things but,
maybe you know the implication is That byron, is on
top of everything, else a. Cannibal but they just couldn't

(37:30):
talk about it because it's nineteen seventy four and this
is A tv.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Movie, WELL i didn't get that.

Speaker 3 (37:37):
Because to, me it was like the wolf was his
or the dog or whatever it is was, his you know. Weapon, well,
yeah But.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
I'm saying they're finding these, bodies and well the, wolf, like,
look he's got a trained or barely trained attack. Wolf
that wolf is definitely eating parts of the.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
People Skill, NO i, know the wolf is definitely the.
Carnivor BUT i don't think he's he says.

Speaker 2 (38:05):
That he he says that, like, OH i turned it
on to a different kind of. Prey i'm thinking he's
eaten parts of these. PEOPLE i don't, know like that's,
IT i, mean Can.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah if you were writing this as a, novel you
might include some some moments of. CANNIBALISM i, MEAN i
Because byron is far. OUT i mean he really. Is you,
know he is on his own planet with with his.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
There's even a touch of the most dangerous game in
this because like it's like he's gotten bored of hunting,
animals so he now has to hunt. People but that's,
okay because he's performing a public service by instilling fear
and the populace and making them feel.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Alive yes his words. Exactly, Yes, yes he's done them
a big old. Service it's, yeah that's there's, there you,
know to some, extent you want to say to mathieson pick,
one like one of these has to be like his main.
Motivation but he's got like a bunch of. MOTIVATION i.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
THINK i think it's because he's he's fill you, know
he's philosophical as well as. Ideological like there's there's a
lot going on with with his motivations because he is you, know,
yes there's a layer of misogyny, there but you know
it's also you, know rooted into his own beliefs about

(39:32):
like the hunter prey, dynamic and then you, know he
has these broader societal beliefs that he thinks that everyone
is just too soft and they're not fully experiencing their
emotions and you, know and you, know, yes it's it's
it's a lot going. On but While i'm watching, it
LIKE i think the performance kind of brings it all,

(39:54):
together you, know LIKE i fully believe in this guy
when he's saying these.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Things oh, yeah, no me, too me. TOO i mean,
yeah in twenty twenty, five he would have a hell
of a following on, YouTube, honestly and we're just lucky
that's not. Happening, Gosh, okay so what have We, Oh
by the, WAY i know that this is not that,

(40:22):
important BUT i loved what we talked a little bit
about this is taking place In Santa. Monica that coffee
shop That Johan flugg runs is a real place On
Glennon avenue In, HOLLYWOOD i, Think and it's all of,
it all of the spaces just looks so. Great AND

(40:43):
i love seeing this right after the one that we
watched last, week because remember how we said In, louisiana you,
know all the characters seem to be just sort of
just just basting in their own, sweat and it's just
an uncomfortable place to be or. Live this is the
opposite of. That everybody in this universe they're just. Lucky
they live in one of the most comfortable places you,

(41:05):
know in the, world and you, know it's it's always nice,
weather and it frees them up to be concerned, with you,
know whether or not you should become a hunter or.
NOT i it's just so. Different it's such a different,
world and it's neat to watch them side by.

Speaker 3 (41:21):
Side Now i'm trying to remember why we thought it Was.
Malibu is there a beach scene or.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah but there's a beach In malay In Santa, MONICA i, mean.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
No, no, No But i'm just asking That's i'm just trying
to remember what when they're when they're at the.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
Beach, well when you open, up you've got a helicopter
shot watching the sheriff's cars driving along that mountain, road
and that's that's on a cliff at the edge of the.
Ocean maybe you were thinking about.

Speaker 4 (41:48):
That well, ALSO i mean they go there's the beach
because the tracks lead to the to the, water and
WELL i can't follow that, anymore, right.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Yeah, yeah so he uh. OH i know WHAT i
was going to say too about the about the all
bounce is that at night it's always, missed like they
always are walking into the, mist And i'm, like maybe
don't walk into the mist if there's like all these
horrible murders that are.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
Happening but that's That's Dan curtis just doing his. THING i, mean.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Yeah another POINT i want to make is that speaking
of the, murders quote, unquote how come if it looks
like an animal has torn them, apart they call them
murders instead of attacks or deaths or. Whatever that's that's
WHAT i thought was, interesting is from the beginning they're,
like there're people have been, murdered and then but they're
like an animal tore them. Apart SO i never understood.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
That it's, LIKE i.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Don't have an answer for. THAT i don't Think. Mathison
yeah they.

Speaker 4 (42:42):
Didn't they weren't quite, sure and so they were trying To, well,
yeah but.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
You're not even supposed to say. Murders even if you
know that the person was, shot you still just, say,
like you, know death or, whatever because they might have
been accidentally shot or.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
Something, YEAH i don't have an answer for. That that,
is that is a really good. Question it might have
been better for them to refer to them as as killings.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Are attacks or whatever you a, well especially you, know
murder implies human. Malice these people are working off the
assumption that they are animal, attacks.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
Well, presumably and that's that kind of almost spoils the,
ending actually that they call them. MURDERS i, mean not
not that we saw it coming this, really BUT.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
I i never at any point thought that it was
anybody other Than. BYRON i just thought, that, well, no me.

Speaker 3 (43:31):
Neither BUT i didn't know, That, yeah, Exactly i'm saying.
That that's What i'm saying is that it spoils the
ending that he's not a. Werewolf if you call the
murders and not. Attacks but, no even when he's even
when quote Unquote byron is lying, Dead i'm just, like,
oh he took the other guys he took he twitched.
Clothes because it just was so obvious that it was.

(43:52):
Him although we could have been it would have been
a fun twist for it to not be, him but
it was definitely.

Speaker 1 (43:56):
Him yeah it would have been, yeah but, yeah there's no.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
NO i mean that's the, Thing like it almost feels
like he's so obviously psychopathic that he should be a
red herring because, like if this was a proper, mystery
it wouldn't be him because he's really the one and
only suspect in this whole. Thing, well that's What i'm.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Saying it's more like, heat you. Know it's not, like
even though there is some mystery as to whether it's,
him you're really pretty sure it. Is it's more like
a cat and mouse game between these two old, friends
which you can't get cool.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
THAT i, mean it's a it's a relationship driven, story
to be, Sure like it's it's it's it's it's a cracked.
ROMANCE i, MEAN i Think john was was right in
saying that you, know it's a it's a it's a
twisted horror love. Triangle and you know this is which

(45:00):
is something that this genre, does you know pretty pretty,
well like is showing these sort of, unsavory toxic kind
of because like you do start to kind of fill
in the blanks about like what their relationship was probably,
like and, yeah you, know why why did they grow

(45:20):
apart in? Everything and that's that stuff so.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
Interesting, now if it had the twist had been, different
he was actually supernatural And byron was a, uh you,
know wolf, man he would have definitely, gone, hey you
should you should also become a wolf man with, Me
like now the jig is, up you should we should
beware now you're talking.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
About The Lost boys where but like you, Know, michael
you're badass enough that you can you can roll.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
With, us but no more this. Way this in some,
ways he's because he's. Human he's more like comes off
as even more of a psychopath unless of, like let's
be cool. TOGETHER i definitely think if they bitted, well
because he would have, said, hey come, on let's let's
be wolf.

Speaker 2 (46:04):
Buddies because he's just like ultimately just the serial killer
with a were wolf gloss over, him you know it
it sort of takes some of the romanticism away because it's.
Strange but there's something about, like if you make your

(46:26):
villain a fantastical, monster it's somehow more acceptable to romanticize,
them even though like a werewolf for a vampire is
still killing. People you, know they're still murderous and. Dangerous
but because it's like this, cursed magical, condition you, know

(46:48):
that's that's socially acceptable to be thought of as. Seductive
whereas like if that's kind of why it reminds me Of.
Hannibal you, Know hannibal functions very much like like, that
where it's it's kind of toying with that vampire genre,
thing but because you're you're dealing with a guy that's
like a serial, killer it makes it feel so much more.

(47:12):
Unsavory and that's that's what's going on.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Here it's a very good. Point, yeah you're right In,
hannibal because we know What hannibal is because in, theory
his story of mystery was a previous story we've already. Seen,
yeah we can accept. It he's here as a guy
who's just an outright. Killer, yeah and if this guy
didn't die in this. Movie it would be interesting to.

(47:38):
See it'd be interesting for him to be a. Hannibal
it'd be interesting for him to be locked out In,
oh he'd.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Make a he'd make a great like for like a
street Level my, god, yes he'd be a great villain
for Like batman or The punisher or something like.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
That oh my, god, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
YEP i would also watch these two guys AND i
SPOT i spy but with, supernatural like real. Supernatural yeah
that would uh you, know later on we GET X,
files but it's not the same, dynamic you, know like,
too you, know these, rugged rugged dudes doing spy stuff with.
SUPERNATURAL i would watch that.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
TOO i mean the brilliant thing about like this is
WHY i watch old movies is honestly so THAT i
can Go i'm gonna do, that but we're going To.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Yeah, WELL i started finding myself, Like, okay if you
were to remake, this like who you would? Cast AND
i feel LIKE i CAN i could very. Much she
See John hamm playing Playing byron like there's a similar energy.
There my, GOD i HAVE i have no idea who

(48:44):
would play play The Peter graves, Part like there really
isn't any butty Because, peter you are absolutely, Right, jason
Like Peter graves walks this line of being sort of
like sensitive and, astute but also seems like you could
kick Your.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
George is as close as you, Get.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
And, Yeah George clooney would be. GOOD i, COULD i
could kind. OF i could see. THAT i didn't think. About,
plus he's got a similar salt and pepper.

Speaker 3 (49:12):
FO i was thinking more of somebody Like Mark. Ruffalo
but that's BECAUSE i Want Mark ruffalo to be in.
EVERYTHING i, MEAN.

Speaker 2 (49:18):
I WOULD i would watch that Movie Mark Mark Mark
ruffalo Versus John hamm as a serial killer that that
that you, know or Or John hamm is a. Werewolf you.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
Know Like mark can also play very, sexy like he
made that movie in The cut With Meg, ryan and
you know he was just.

Speaker 3 (49:37):
Maybe nny'd be very, sexy but he is very, sexy all.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Right very.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
Good usually people who can be very sexy are just,
SEXY i, think you, know like sexy people that. Is
that is a primary. Difference THOUGH i have to stress
that Like moon of The wolf had like maybe one
person THAT i would actually qualify, as which was The heiress,

(50:03):
character who is just like absurdly good looking in this yokel,
universe whereas, like because this Is, california everybody is just
really good. Looking, yes like even the cop who is
like the least. Attractive he looks like a character from
a cowboy.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Movie and he. Is the guy's name Is. CARRIE i
think It's Philip. CAREY i don't think he's related to McDonald,
carey but there you. Are it's uh thing. McDonald what
else did we see McDonald? Kerrey and he was the
doctor In summer Of fear.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Anyway Philip, Carrer, yeah you're, Right Philip. Carey Sir Brendon, belle.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
All, right well we should get our final thoughts on this.
FILM i do love by the way that it has a,
motif a thing that matheson has the characters say a
bunch of, times you, know something like and and Here
i've forgotten the actual, line but it's something like the
thing to remember about your. Praise, oh you.

Speaker 2 (51:07):
Know it's basically that the the animals will be, unpredictable is, sure.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Right but but in a in a way that they
keep quoting and And.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Peter graves actually will always do the.

Speaker 3 (51:20):
Unexpected you had it, right.

Speaker 2 (51:22):
Yeah and And Peter graves does Defeat, byron not with,
physicality but he outsmarts them by hiding a pistol on.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Himself, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
And then shoots him in the. Back i'm curious how
he's going to explain that that Was.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
YEAH i agree.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
THAT i don't think anybody will, question especially given that
the sheriff Saw byron acting like a crazy. PERSON i
don't think anybody he if he if he Says byron
was a serial killer and had a pet, WOLF i
literally think no one will question the.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Wolf how do you get the back the wolf shot?
HIM i don't. Know, look it's it's it's crazy.

Speaker 4 (52:04):
Stuff he thought that wolf's so, weird Like i've never
seen it wolf.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Somebody but there you. Go i'm sure it's either the
first nor the last time That Peter graves is going
to benefit from The Good Old boy. Network so it's
it's going to Be it's going to be fine For.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Peter can we all appreciate That Peter graves looked how
he looks in this movie for basically his entire.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
Life, well that's the thing about looking old when you're
young is that you never age like it's Like Steve,
Martin Because Steve martin even though his face was always
young because he had the silver, hair and now his
face is still pretty. Young so he's like he's never
aged because he's always had over, Here.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Peter graves got to be like in his like mid,
fifties and he's, Like, Okay i'm. Done this Is Pete Peter, graves, knowing,
knowing knowing NEEDS i don't need the age a single minute. Further, God,
god these.

Speaker 1 (52:55):
Guys he's only forty eight years, old by the way
he you, know he does look a little drawn for forty,
eight but he looks.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Well the gray the gray hair ages him up a little,
bit like he's he's very you, know LIKE I I
i'm you, KNOW i don't mean the belabor of the,
point but he's very. Handsome like you know WHAT i,
say big.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
Lines down the stage a day between this and airplane
wouldn't just a few years later or is it like a?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Decade about six years? Later?

Speaker 5 (53:25):
Yeah, yeah watch a lot Of gladiator, Movies. Billy that's,
well you, KNOW i was saying, too there's there's this
is again this era that there's a bunch of people
who came out of westerns and war movies and they
became the archetype for what was.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
You, know manly. Men, yeah and a.

Speaker 4 (53:48):
Lot of the a lot of the actors that we've
seen it again going back to the, wolf, like what's
this kind of rugged? Looking you, know a lot of
rugged looking people who are also, attractive especially of the,
time and so that a lot of that shaped especially
during you know this during, wartime a lot of that
was was shaped by this is this is what masculinity, is,

(54:12):
Right and you know a lot of these guys reached
a certain there there is a section of actors who
reach a certain age and just kind of word that
for for a large part of their career they didn't
age past a certain. Point and it's it's, again it's
interesting to see the you, know what is masculinity at the,

(54:34):
time and it's you, know these cats are, coming you,
know they're doing war movies and then and then they're
making more contemporary war movies as. Well just as a
reaction to.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
That WHAT i keep thinking about, is you, know growing
up in in this, era you, know you have this
this constant question what kind of man AM i expected to?
Be AND i think you, know you see these images
like What i'm expected to be is clinic Or Peter
graves or one of these, guys you, Know and that's

(55:04):
why we talk all the time about how as. MEN i,
mean you guys may not agree with, this but you,
KNOW i grew up my whole damn life believing that
once you were thirty you had no more desires like. That,
basically you no longer made, mistakes and there was nothing
you particularly, wanted and nothing made you, laugh and nothing

(55:24):
made you, Sad and the only thing that probably might
happen is occasionally get pissed. Off but other than, that you,
know motion's, done desire is, done need is, done and you,
know and that was seen in the models THAT i grew, up,
right and you, know you, know NOW i think about,
it a good kind of passing of the torch is

(55:45):
of all things the eighty because you Have George, prepard
who is grizzled kind of looks and he looks he
looks Like George, propard who's looked that way for so.
Long and then you have you, Know Derk brinity playing base,
man who's the new young of the, eighties you, know, yes,
well and also you had the other model of Mad,

(56:06):
dog who is a completely different way to be a.
Man you, know so you're, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:11):
But but those two were the kind of you, know
the Benedict ushers in the eighties face man look A
part plays the like like, that and he's of the
he's of the era.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
That would be.

Speaker 4 (56:26):
Now and SO, i you, KNOW i didn't think about.
It we were talking about, it but THAT i think
that's a good. There they're action, heroes you, know of
a different time and they play, that you, Know AND
i just LIKE i, SAID i didn't think about until
we were, like, hey because you know the same Thing
george Pro part is in all these, movies and he
reached the age and you, know he's that era of,

(56:48):
masculinity that era of, character The, grizzles cigar chomping.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
Guy you, know, yes, yeah, exactly, Yeah and you, know
it just.

Speaker 4 (56:57):
Kind of gave me like there, there you, get there's
there your through line to where we go from there even.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Right. Yeah and by the, way still a pretty middle
Middle american conservative, show THE A, team you, Know Vietnam.
Vets you still have no hippies hanging out with THE A.
Team well they're usually you, know well they maybe hire
them R. Yeah. Yeah by the, way my favorite episode

(57:26):
of THE A team IS i think it's called The
Say Uncle, affair which was a man From Uncle reunion
show tucked into the middle of THE A, team which
was the With they changed the. Names that's all they.
Did they just changed the, names you. Know other than,
that it was the same, characters you, KNOW i.

Speaker 4 (57:46):
Still remember it was not BUT i still remember just
the moment the helicopter crashes and then people punched their
way out of the wreckage at the bottom.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
Of the cliff because they couldn't kill.

Speaker 4 (57:56):
ANYBODY i just remember that, being, YEAH i Think i'm
kind of done with, this AND i was young enough
THAT i thought it was.

Speaker 1 (58:02):
Great it's just like Gu.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
Joe, yeah, yeah it was because THEY i think that
was then going oh, well let's see how far we
can push. This, see and they're people are kind of
like have like a little smoke coming off and their
their clothes are slightly, charred but they were in an
explosive helicopter crash before, that AND i just that stuck
with me as, like oh, yeah this is.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Kind of, yeah all, right well that definitely brings it
now that now that we've started spending, long long time
and completely other. Shows for some, reason THE a team,
uh and habituation towards manliness uh And jason's fucked up model. Behavior.

(58:45):
Yeah so, uh let's get our final thoughts and then
we'll come around for. Endorsements, So, tony in, fact you
were first uh laid on. Me uh, YEAH i MEAN
i like. IT i, AGAIN i kind of. LIKE i
still think this makes a great double. Feature, uh you,
know and again triple feature.

Speaker 4 (59:04):
If you want to go back to we did you
know other werewolf mysteries, like, uh you know you. CAN
i don't know why wear wolves and. MYSTERIES i guess
it's the nature of, change like that anybody could be
the were wolf kind of thing that makes it interesting
and was kind of the center of these movies at the.
Time but, uh it, works and you, Know i'll watch

(59:24):
also a fairly infinite amount OF tv movies as. WELL
i WANT i want more box sets OF tv.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Movies that would be. Amazing.

Speaker 4 (59:31):
YEAH i really enjoyed it and it's a good. Discussion
it's an interesting revisiting this time.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
Period it's always cool. Too thank you very, Much, julia
what about? You?

Speaker 3 (59:40):
Well AND i also think it works in the whole
the way that The Scooby doo mysteries work because you,
know you're, like, oh it has, obviously and you know
it's Funny, jason given that you didn't know what the
ending was at one point in the. Thing you, GO
i love how these people just accept that were wolves, exist,
right and is the well first Time i've heard you

(01:00:01):
say that in a in a Monster so it's almost
like you kind of knew that we're in our world
where we're worlds don't, exist instead of in a world
where we're worlds do, exist because, normally you, know we
watched one of these films and we don't ask that
question because we're, like, yeah obviously where worlds, exist because
that's the world they're. In SO i thought that was.
Funny but, yeah It's Scooby doo world where it's, like

(01:00:22):
if we're for these you, know these stinking these. Whatever,
yeah if it wasn't, yes it wasn't for this Meddling Peter,
graves then we would would have gotten away with. It
but alas he gets on the back, instead so for
him and the poor. Wolf as far as the wolf
didn't get killed by the cop though the cop shot

(01:00:43):
him point, blanket seemed like but, Whatever but, yeah this
has been a really fun. Conversation it is, interesting AND
i Like jason that you introduced the whole manosphere or.
Manosphere i'm gonna start calling it the idea in terms of,
THIS i do know know that that was thought of
at the, time Because i'm not, sure but, yeah, yeah well,

(01:01:08):
awesome thank you To but BUT i don't know if
at the time how much their toxic. Masculine i'm sure
there was a lot of toxic masculinity being discussed because
we were coming out Of Vietnam war and there was
the hippies, everywhere so it probably. Was but it is
interesting how how Parallels.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Well they definitely wouldn't have called it that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
Though, no BUT i MEAN i THINK i think, That,
YEAH i think what you guys have been saying about
that the, hippies you, know were kind of the counterpoint
to the you, know the because we're coming out Of,
vietnam but also the all The westerns and everything that
had been popular the decades. Before so, yeah it's super.
Interesting but what a Very it's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
Got holly and easy writer and five easy pieces and
all that stuff showing a different model from.

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
Manhood, yes, yeah, anyway very cool discussion and enjoyable.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Film thank, you true what About? You a good?

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Movie something. RANDOM i just thought of that in terms
Of byron being an asshole not for, nothing but also
an animal abuse her because he admitted that he burned
this wolf so its feet would be malformed and therefore
look strange when people we were trying to track it

(01:02:26):
and not be able to tell exactly that it was a.
Wolf so on top of all of his other terrible
behavior he, is he is also abusive to this animal
that he allegedly revers by the, Way so, yeah screw, You.
Byron i'm Glad Peter graves shot you in the.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Back it fits right in with manly men of old Like.
Hondo Remember hondo says that he he had it he
hired An indian to beat his dog so the dog
would be afraid Of, indians like there's there's some ship
that went down in the in in our model men

(01:03:07):
that that that just tucked us all.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Up, honestly, YEAH I I i think that this is
a uh you know made. It first of, all thank
you for To john for bringing this to because this
is a rare werewolf movie THAT i hadn't actually, seen
so you, KNOW i knew of, it BUT I I,
i for whatever, reason had never taken the time to watch.

(01:03:30):
It so this was this was fun AND i really
think it made an interesting discussion with talking about the you,
know sexual politics of, it the philosophical politics of, it
and you, know sort of the personalities behind behind, it

(01:03:55):
with the Whole Dan curtis of of it. All so
this was very much a. WORTHWHILE i, mean it's only
an hour and a half, long so like it's it's
it's definitely worth an hour and a, half you. Know
that's that's that's incredibly short by modern day film. Standards.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Wonderful, YEAH i will accept gladly everything that you guys.
Said AND i really enjoyed listening to this conversation a.
Lot All, Right i'm dying to know your. Endorsements julie
AND i have been going to the movies all the.
Time it's. Weird it's like we're it's it's it's like
we're empty nesters, again and yet we're. Not it's just

(01:04:34):
the only thing that we do for. Sanity but let's
get your, Endorsements, tony what do you got?

Speaker 4 (01:04:41):
Weapons see weapons That holy. Moly, yeah it's very.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
Good.

Speaker 4 (01:04:49):
Yeah, also nobody too was. ENJOYABLE i really like the first.
ONE i really enjoyed the. SEQUEL i was kind of, Like,
no the trailer looks pretty, good but it's weird because
uh it's like the family FILM r rated family action.

(01:05:09):
Film uh, Yeah i'll take more and more of that
really worth. It if you've dug the first, one it's
really worth. It i'm trying to think what Else i've been.
Watching i've really liked WAS A chief Of. War that's
been really cool too On Apple plush and kudos for
making a, movie you, know making a series that where

(01:05:32):
everybody is authentic Speaking.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Hawaiian in the.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
Subtitle THEN i just that's just been super. Cool I've
i've really enjoyed it so, far as well As Twisted.
Metal you, know it's TV's back with with good. Stuff
there's good stuff on, streaming but my main movies have
Been weapons and And nobody. TOO i ALSO i, posted,

(01:05:56):
uh you, know While I'm i'm, talking coming Up sooner
Than later is fantastic fest AND i posted the link
to the film. Guide there's a lot of stuff that
looks really cool this, year And i'd be curious, Again
i'd love to hear what people are interested in to
cover Because i'm, sure like like previous, years no matter,

(01:06:17):
what even if it's not, OFFICIAL i want to be
able to have some sit downs and talk about what's coming,
out because we eventually end up doing a bunch of you,
know several of those movies as they start streaming or
get bought or. Whatever there's supposedly some pretty cool secret
screenings coming out as. Well my fingers. ACROSS i really
hope one of them Is. Frankenstein but we'll. See it's

(01:06:39):
GETTING i, mean it is getting a short.

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Release later on the. Year we'll.

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
See BUT cc two is one of my big ones
BECAUSE cec was amazing To BUT i would love to
hear if people are, like, Hey, tony this sounds. Great
are you going to cover that and see if we
can get like that kind of, interaction because you, know
those are the kinds of. Things, Well i'll bring back
and as soon as we as a collective can watch

(01:07:03):
it and we will you, know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:05):
Yeah or do.

Speaker 4 (01:07:06):
Interviews we've done a bunch of interviews with you, know
fantastic best movies that come, Out so all of that is,
exciting and it's it's you, know about a month, out so.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Nice, nice Wonderful, Uh, TRULIA i know we've been, Watching
we've been watching so many. Movies but what do you? Got?

Speaker 3 (01:07:23):
Well, YEAH i THINK i Mentioned weapons last week it
was so, scary and then, uh this week we got
around to Watching Freak Gear, friday which was. HILARIOUS i
didn't expect to like it as much AS i. DID
i really enjoying a, lot.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
Such a good.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
Time, yeah and we've been and we tore through the
New king of The hill season and that was fantastic as.
Well so it's been. Fun we've had a, good good
week of watching.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Things, yeah thank, You. Drew what about?

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
YOU i, mean outside of saying that everybody should just
go Order Halloween man on An Abyss volume one From
red Five, comics Which i'm going to be saying that
basically every, episode uh from for for a good. While but,
ALSO i really have enjoyed What i've seen Of Alien.

(01:08:13):
EARTH i feel, like even though there's been a lot
of attempts to reboot The alien franchise over the last several,
years AND i, think you, know the results have been,
Mixed like there's intriguing stuff but also stuff That i'm

(01:08:37):
kind of, LIKE i wish they hadn't done. That so,
far this has been the most satisfying attempt at relaunching.
THIS i mean it's a, series so it's immediately different
than any of The alien, Films BUT i don't. Know so,

(01:08:57):
Far i've just found it a lot more interesting and
in intriguing then you, know like like even stuff like
BECAUSE i you, Know, alien you, Know Alien romulus isn't
even like a year, old AND i remember people raving
about that AND i thought it was pretty, good BUT
i don't, know it doesn't speak to me the way
this has so. Far you, know it's a, series so

(01:09:21):
jury still. Out we'll see if it sticks to. Landing
but you, KNOW i think this might be the thing
that gets me back into The alien, universe because LIKE,
I i was mixed On, PROMETHEUS i was mixed on you,
Know Alien, COVENANT i was mixed On Alien. Romulus not

(01:09:45):
that they were, bad you, know because none of those
are movies THAT i would call, bad but you, know
they just didn't gel the WAY i exactly wanted them.
To whereas this, is you, know it's it's got this
sort of cause set futurism look of The alien universe
down very. Well but also it's adding in it's sort

(01:10:09):
of filling in the blanks about some of the stuff
that you, know never has really been, like you, know
a lot of the stuff about like the synthetics and you,
know the different corporate power structures AND i don't, KNOW
i just it's it's it's it feels like the continuation
that THAT i would, have you, know like if somebody

(01:10:30):
were to, say, Hey, drew do of your Your not
THAT i know, best mind, you but like if somebody
were to, say, Hey, drew do your own continuation of
The alien. Universe this is more akin to WHAT i
have always thought was interesting about the. Universe, so LIKE i,
said we'll, see we'll, see you, know jury still, out but,

(01:10:53):
uh it. Is you, Know i'm hoping that this continues
to be the thing that gets me reinvested In alien
as a, concept Because i've really been digging what they've
been doing with The predator. Franchise so for the first
TIME i feel like, ever like you, know it's always
been That predator was sort of the knuckle dragging cousin Of,

(01:11:14):
alien Because, alien even the sequels that people don't like
To alien like they're bringing in like our tour. Directors
So alien has always been kind of the artier film,
franchise where you, know it's more cerebral, predators more about
like blood and guts and you, know monster fighting and all.

(01:11:36):
That but and YET i feel like From prey and
Now killer Of killers like predators like knocking it out
of the, park Whereas alien has been more. Mixed but,
this to, me it's like it's like they've scaled up
their batting average. Now so, YEAH i hope the rest
of the series sticks to the landing BECAUSE i really
like What i've seen of it so.

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
Far, jason if you haven't watched, it it's probably got
the closest to how we probably, envisioned like the corp.
States oh, yeah like like the borring corporations in this
have that. Vibe AND i, thought, YEAH i was watching
it's kind of it's kind of HOW i envisioned it
and writing. It SO i thought that was really that

(01:12:20):
was really cool too in ways THAT i hadn't.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
Expected for those who don't, Remember tony AND i wrote
a series For tokyo Pop langa Called icon that was
that was about these teens on the run in a
world of of corporate. War you, know so, yes, UH
i thought that.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
Was Jason henderson though.

Speaker 4 (01:12:41):
Noworks And tony with An.

Speaker 1 (01:12:45):
Eye they printed our names and managed to somehow get
both of them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
Wrong, well it's it's just that With tony with An,
eye it's just the the alternate timeline where you're where
you're a, woman.

Speaker 1 (01:12:58):
Yeah with stillbulous, Hair i'm. Sure And jason HAND.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
I THINK i think Female tony is like a hot goth.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
Chick now.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
It's, Okay i'm rewriting. NOW i just need the picture
What Jason handerson looks, like, Right Mark.

Speaker 1 (01:13:20):
SINGER I i don't know WHY i said, that other
than okay my. ENDORSEMENT i can't remember If i've endorsed it.
Before but there's a series of YouTube videos THAT i
watch WHEN i am falling asleep AND i get movie
ideas from, them like stuff to look up and watch
called retro wave. Touch my wife hates these. Videos they

(01:13:42):
are they are all synthwave. Videos so these guys will
like take a synthwave you, know it sounds kind of
like eighties, music and then they'll pick a random movie
from the eighties or nineties and do the video to that.
Movie and the cool thing, Is i'm discovering all these
Movies i've never heard. Of and that's so it's it's

(01:14:03):
it's been really. COOL i Mentioned Mark.

Speaker 3 (01:14:05):
SINGER i react the same way watching those As jason
did when his mom would make him go to to fabric. Stores,
yes so like.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
This Is julia's version of WHEN i start watching a
dinosaur video on.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
YouTube got it Because i'll be, like, honey look at.
This this is a. Movie they're they're they're doing this
for this Movie i've never heard, of and it's Got
Mark singer And Shannon.

Speaker 3 (01:14:31):
Tweed that sounds, great fine with it if you were
playing like different music over, it or even if it was.
Muted it's the music that makes me want to claw my.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
Eyes so you you what you're saying is you don't like, keyboards.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
Right, WELL i don't LIKE i don't know whatever that.
Is it's like to, me it's. Musaic But jason's, like,
no it's not. Music it sounds like. Music.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
NOTHING i listened to his music and so many of
the THINGS i listened. To do you say our like?
Music SO.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
I LOVE i think you, know as it's weird for
me to say this Because i'm part of this, podcast
but my favorite thing about this podcast are the little,
hints little Like cracks where we see the inner workings
of y'all's. Marriage it's kind of like like IF i
were just somebody listening to this, PODCAST i would be

(01:15:25):
completely fascinated by that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
Is that is very. Sweet if anybody wants to come
on to the page and ask where to find some
of these Excellent chillwave, VIDEOS i will post.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
Some i'm there for your hyper. Fixations, JASON, I i,
too live with a wife that does does not always
understand the things THAT i am obsessed, with LIKE i
or earlier TODAY i learned that there what is a
new THREE d print h THREE d printing program called

(01:16:05):
UH i can't, remember it's Dino core or something like,
that and it's all it's also you can THREE d
print out life size dinosaur skulls like and, like so
IF i went like something that looks like a museum
quality t rex skull AND i started Telling jamie about,
it and she was, LIKE i am so glad we
don't have a THREE d printer, because like you, know

(01:16:29):
she was just picturing our entire home being filled with dinosaur.
Skulls so like your synth wave is my, Dinosaurs i'm
relating to you so so strongly right.

Speaker 4 (01:16:41):
Now i'm so two bits on, That. Jason have you
Heard it's not exactly, synthwave BUT i think it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:47):
Would be in your.

Speaker 4 (01:16:48):
Wheelhouse have you heard ever listened To Carpenter?

Speaker 1 (01:16:51):
BRUTE i don't. KNOW i don't. Know they did a.

Speaker 4 (01:16:55):
Crazy sci fi movie with their, soundtrack but it's definitely
as it states, like he kind of falls in line
with The Gihn carpenter kind of, sound but also like, si,
uh you should definitely check them. Out they have a
really cool extended music video that's kind of Uh Lovecraft
dagon related in some, ways it's, related which is also,

(01:17:17):
cool BUT i think you would dig. IT i have
a similar thing a you, know With drew with my.
Stuff it's, like as long as that stays in your,
office cool in the, gang, right and then went. Still
but but also you, Know i'll have things like the
robo cop came came out AND i was, like oh,
man look at this, trailer, like, Ah i'm gonna shoot
so many bad guys in the dick and that's you,

(01:17:40):
know part of the robo cop, thing And rain, GOES
i am so happy that you're excited about. That that's.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
GREAT i think what we've established is that we are very,
three very odd, men.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
All of us honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:17:59):
Exactly my wife loves me and thinks THAT i am very,
attractive thank you very. Much she just doesn't does does
not find dinosaurs very.

Speaker 4 (01:18:12):
Interesting so oh, yeah Well Rain rain now is constantly
Like djoko and, me any, robot she, goes, oh so
that's A gundam, right she knows it's Not, gundam but
but it's all it's all A, gundam, like oh look A.
Gundam huh see c with With.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Jamie does like to impress me when she's picked up
dinosaur knowledge through, osmosis like if like she like lays
out like a palaeontology fact and she was, like says
it and she was, like, yeah that's. CORRECT i pay.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Attention so that's.

Speaker 4 (01:18:50):
Cool rain does some similar, stuff but like there there
are running jokes like that or like our. Show i'll
be watching something she'll pass, by how look is that a?

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
Gun oh that should be when when we inevitably start
the h The castle Of horror t public store will
make A t shirt that, says is that A?

Speaker 1 (01:19:10):
Gundam, right it's just a random.

Speaker 4 (01:19:13):
Robot it'll be like it'll be Like robbie The robot.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
And And jason The JASON'S t shirt will be, uh
NOTHING i listened to is music not even, music to be.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
Clear, ALSO i love to frustrate, Them jason And sophia
with my getting D c people, wrong BECAUSE i because you,
Know i'm AN mcu, person SO i know a lot
Of marvel, characters although not the comic book, lore BUT
i get D c people wrong all the. Time they

(01:19:50):
both just get me, like how how are you existing
in this? Household and you still don't?

Speaker 6 (01:19:54):
NOTICE i THINK i think THE mcu people have have
taken over BECAUSE i was at an event this weekend
and there was two guys and one of the guys
had to.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
Punish YOUR t shirt, on and the other guy had
A Spider MAN t shirt, on AND i started talking
to them about comic, books and both of them like
looked at each other and then looked at me Like
i'm like the dumbest guy in the, planet and they're,
like we don't read comic. Books, Yeah AND i was, like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
But that's the thing that we should save for another.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
Show This this is gott went.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Opening a new conversation and it's a pretty.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
Big John logan is going to listen to this episode and,
gone what DID i?

Speaker 5 (01:20:37):
Do?

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
No you, Go, yeah that's about. Right it was a,
wonderful wonderful. Suggestion all, Right thank you. Guys i'm so
happy that we got to talk about. This if you're,
listening if you've actually listened to this whole, show which
SOMETIMES i who, knows but please come to The facebook.
Page we thank you so. Much, everybody be kind into one,

(01:21:00):
another and we can't wait to be back. Again bye, Everybody,
bye take. Care