TASTE THE BLOOD OF DRACULA - Podcast/ Discussion with Special Guest John Logan (Penny Dreadful, Skyfall, Gladiator) - Castle of Horror Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to the Castle of Horror, the show
dedicated to horror movie is an awesomeness. We are a
feed spot top one hundred horror podcast. This week we
have a look at the nineteen seventy Hammer Dracula film,
Taste the Blood of Dracula. This is episode four hundred
and sixty three. Bear in mind if you haven't seen
today's movie, we're going to be talking about it from
the perspective of horror fans who have seen it, so

(00:30):
warning spoilers ahead. From Denver, Colorado, I'm your host, Jason Henderson,
publisher at Castlebridge Media, home of the Castle of Horror
anthology and of Night Walkers, which is all about these
Hammer movies mainly, and a lot of other stuff, So
you gotta check that out with me. From Austin is
Tony Savaggio, lead singer and bassist to the band Deserts
of Mars and lead guitars to the band Rise from Fire.

(00:51):
Say Hello, Tony Howdy. Also in Austin, Mister Drew Edwards
is the writer creator of the long running underground comic
Halloween Man. You can find a Global Comics. He has
a Best Writer Ringo nominee Austin Chronicle, Best of Austin
Award winner and a member of the Pen America Fellowship.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Say hello, Drew, they have destroyed my servant. They too
will be destroyed.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Excuse me. It's it's interesting that he just said like
he should, like without destroying the servant, he wouldn't have
made it. I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's very hypocritical on Dracula's part.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Still, you know, it's as good a reason as any,
all right. Also in Denver, color commentary from Julia Guzman
of Kazman Immigration of Denver and chair of Ala Colorado. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello,
And finally, once more, we are joined by a very
special guest. This writer received the Tony Award for his
play Red, and wrote the book for the Tony Award

(01:46):
winning Mulin Rouge. As a screenwriter has been nominated for
three Oscars and has received Golden Globe, BAFTA, WGA, and
Edgar Awards. His film work includes Skyfall, Gladiator, The Aviator,
Hugo Rango, Sweeney Todd, They them the Last Samurai any
given Sunday. What's amazing to me is many of those

(02:06):
are period pieces, So I want to get your thoughts
on that, in this particular film. He also created the
television series Penny Dreadful. This November, his musical Swept Away
opens on Broadway, and next year we see the release
of his movie Michael, about none of the than Michael Jackson.
We are joined by the one and only John Logan.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Hello, Hello, be here.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Oh, I'm so happy to have you back and to
talk about I know that your heart like you really
love these gothic horror films. So this is it's perfect.
I'm just so happy we got to talk about it
with you, all right. Taste The Blood of Dracula is
a nineteen seventy British supernatural horror film produced by Hammer Film.
So this is a Hammer movie directed, and it's a

(02:50):
late Hammer movie, and yet I feel like it's maintaining
the quality that we expect from Hammer. Directed by Peter
Sasny from a script by Anthony Hines. Is the fifth
installment in Hammer's Dracula series, the fourth to start Chris
Furley as Count Dracula, the titular vampire. It also started
Jeffrey Keene and Gwen Watford and was followed by Scars

(03:11):
of Dracula in the same year, which is a very
very different movie. So let's get our opening thoughts. This
is where we just sort of lay down our thesis
for the evening. Even though we'll have topics, I will
probably just go straight into the plot. So let's go, John,
Julia Drew, and Tony John. You are our guests. You
get to go first. So John, why why Tastes the

(03:33):
Blood of Dracula? But what is it about this?

Speaker 3 (03:36):
It is?

Speaker 4 (03:36):
You know, Look, my happy place is Hammer Vampire, you know,
And if it's Chris Lye, all the better. But if
it's Brides or Legend of Seven Golden Vampires or Kiss
of the Vampires, I just I just love these movies,
you know. It's my happy place, always has been. And
I have a particular affection for Taste the Butt of
Dracula because a lot of people don't like it or

(03:57):
don't get it or sort of like know where it
fits in the continuum of everything, you know, But I
think it's particularly fascinating for where it is in the
continuum of Hammer and how they're in Dracula. Did you
guys talk a little bit about you know, Draculaism from
the Brave and sort of the theological construct behind that

(04:19):
with like you have to be a believer. And this
movie is a further step in Hammer aligning Dracula with Satanism.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
So I'd love to.

Speaker 4 (04:28):
Talk about that because it continues then through all the movies,
escalating until you know, Dracula's sort of sort of satan
himself by the Satanic right. And it's also just like
it's sexy. It's like Linda Hayden and Anthony Corlis Higgins
are cute, and it's about it's about moral hypocrisy. It's
set in England, it's you know, it's got everything for.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Me, lovely. Thank you very very much, Julia. We watched
this just last night, so what are your thoughts.

Speaker 5 (04:56):
Really interesting feeling very different given that it is Hammer
higher Dracula. It even kind of picks up where the
I don't remember which one that we just watched.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Where he risen from the grid because he's like.

Speaker 5 (05:08):
Impaled by the cross. But but it's super different. I
like the theme that because I relate to it as
a person who gets bored easily. I like the theme
that these you know, and I'm not an old white
rich dude, but I but to identify with the idea
that you could just be bored and be like, what

(05:31):
what else is there to do? And then in their situation,
the answer is, let's go. Uh, we're bored of our brothel,
let's go find let's do black magic. So I haven't
gotten that far where I've decided black black magic is
my you know, escape, but I definitely get bored.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Well let me know, I mean, you know, I.

Speaker 5 (05:51):
Think I'll avoid that, given that I watched enough horror
movies at this point. But yeah, it's super fun. I
like there's even a little bit like sound of music
thrown in there with the youths in the garden by
the gazebo and everything, and oh there's a lot, a
lot in this film that it was really surprising, very refreshing.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Remember that with the gazebo. I do like that set
drew what about you?

Speaker 2 (06:15):
So this was this was you know. My memories of
this movie usually are of enjoying the hell out of
Ralph Bates because I think he's really what makes this
movie for me still, and also hating the ending because
it always read to me like Dracula suddenly realizes that
he's in a church and that's a place he probably

(06:36):
shouldn't be, so he just he just croaks in the end,
and so I always I love the ending of of
of has risen from the grave. I think that's my
favorite death of Dracula in any of these movies. This
one is definitely still my least favorite. But this movie
is a lot better than I remembered it being. And

(06:57):
it's oh so Harney. I love how horny this movie is.
You've got horny teenagers in love. You've got horny middle
aged dads at a brothel. You got you got you know,
possibly hornye if.

Speaker 5 (07:14):
They're middle aged, they found the fount of youth because
they're like, they're going to live to be one hundred
and thirty.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Anyway, we'll just I mean, it's the Victorian era. They
could they could, they could be thirty and just look
like that. But you know it, I like all and
I like, you know, the stuff that John was talking about,
like the the overt, you know, nineteen seventies, you know,
satanism of it all. Like I really like also, you know,

(07:44):
speaking of John being here this time around, I think
watching this, I really felt like, oh this this really
you know, I see a lot of Penny Dreadful. I
see a lot of the influence of this particular film
on Pit Dreadful, Like there's a similar vibe. I mean,
there's always a similar vibe between Hammer and Pity Dreadful,

(08:06):
but this for some reason, really I don't know, like
it just hit that to me. So, like, you know,
this time around, I think I enjoyed this about as
much as I ever have. Not that I hate it,
because I like Hammer and I like Hammer Dracula and
you know this this, but it's it's definitely not been
my favorite of the series. But you know that's that

(08:29):
it's still something that I like. So I would I
would never say that it was a movie that I hated.
I guess I'm rambling. I'll shut up now.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
You did great, Tony. What about Yeah?

Speaker 6 (08:41):
I really, I actually really like this film, you know,
pregaming it and I think, you know, horny lurid is
the word I use, because it's just it's full of
substuous color and you know, decadence, uh, you know, from
front to back and even in a since has a
little bit of like, hey, why don't we look you know,

(09:02):
like all the like there's a lot of that, and
then uh, you know, Seduction of the Innocent.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
It's just there's it's chock full, and I'm gonna agree.

Speaker 6 (09:11):
I agree with you totally, John, as I was watching this, uh,
Dracula as a demonic force that's been through this this
run of Hammer, I think it's and we don't get
enough of that in my opinion. So I really love
that they kept that going. It's also fascinating too, because
you know, the way the beginning, the way it starts,
like it's almost as if the people running away from

(09:33):
Dracula and the guy who finds Drag that they probably
just passed each other. Like yes, it's literally like a
few minutes later because he's still kind of writhing around him,
still like a.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Stuck bug on the on that cross. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (09:46):
Yeah, So you know all of that, you know, with
some great blood and all of that, and you know,
and also you know, I don't think we had watched
at the time, but the kind of decadence of the
upper class we kind of touched on when Jay and
I were writing, you know, Victorian era stuff, so it
really hit home, like, ah, yeah, this is where we
want to be.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
I really liked it a lot, wonderful, Thank you very much.
I want to go straight into talking about Dracula because
I was trying to decide, like, let's let's pretend that
it's nineteen seventy and you're on a date and you're
going to see Taste of the Blood of Dracula, but
you have not watched any of the others. I'm trying
to figure out, like what kind of sense this movie
would make. And I'm not saying that this is a

(10:27):
bad thing. I'm just trying to figure out, like what
would that be like to like watch this and go, oh,
I know Dracula as a concept in my mind and
I'm coming in and there's Dracula and he's they they like,
imagine how this is just reinterpreting Dracula for the audience,
you know, once again. And here if you think of

(10:48):
that nineteen fifty seven Dracula where he's this guy who
is or was a fifty eight I'm sorry, where you
know he's he's a vampire who wants to go to
England and ostensively, I guess start a vampire cult. Here
he's more You're right, he's a he's a demonic, satanic
agent of chaos, but I don't think he actually like

(11:08):
if he has plans, we do not see them here,
Like this movie is very very much oriented around here
are some people, and into their lives comes this demonic
force that's screw.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Well, some of that it came about. And John can
correct me if I'm wrong, because he probably knows more
about this than I do. But from my understanding is
some of that occurs because this originally was going to
be a soft reboot of the Dracula character with Ralph

(11:39):
Bates becoming the new Dracula by drinking his blood. And
then at the late, like the last hour before filming started,
Christopher Lee decided to come back, and so they rewrote
the latter half of the movie. And I can't.

Speaker 3 (11:55):
That they didn't.

Speaker 5 (11:56):
They weren't gonna that. The studio didn't want to do
the movie without him.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
It was Warner You're right, you're right, you know, Drew
Gili It's Warner Brothers. The American studio said, wait a minute,
we signed up for the Dragton movie with Christopher Lee.
That's the name that sells. So poor Tony Hines. My
heartbreaks being a writer, as are many people on the screen.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
By the way, that screenplay that movie is about start shooting.
You gotta put Christopher Lee in it.

Speaker 4 (12:20):
Somehow, so like genius, you have Ralph Bates being incredibly
theatrical and cool. He does a great black mass get
he turns into Christopher Lee. All logic ceases. Yes, the
idea of that, like I want revenge because they killed
my acolyte, but if hadn't killed him, I wouldn't be here.
But at that point, you know, I don't care because

(12:41):
it's you know Lee. He's got the bloody eyes and
he's tall.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
You know.

Speaker 4 (12:45):
But I think if you were like to answer your question, Jason,
if I were just coming in anohing with Dracula, I'd be.

Speaker 3 (12:50):
Like, damn, Ralph Bates. He's cool, he's youthquake. This is exciting.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
And then this dad comes in, like Stern Deck comes
in as do and I'm like, not as cool.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
But it's Christopher Lee.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
You know, they've changed Christopher Lee a little bit. Also,
like his wigs different, because the last wig we saw
he had this sort of salt and pepper look about
him and he and it was it was somehow that
gray wig that he had, and he was a little thinner,
he looked nastier, and here he's a little less gaunt,
and he's got this and the marvel no prize. In

(13:27):
my head says this is because he's basically he's a
Ralph Bates version of Dracula that's played by christpher Lee,
and so his hair has gone black or a rich brown,
and you know, he gosh, there's nobody like this guy.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
I mean, Jesus, it might be my my own preferences
Dracuela speaking coming out, but the wig in this to
me looked like they were trying to make him look
more like Legosi to me, like it has a more
prominent widow's peak than the hammered Dracula's. It's it's that

(14:02):
very dark hair, and you know to your point that
you're you're you're talking about making him look more like
sort of the default version of Dracula in people's minds
kind of works its way around, like you don't have
to explain Dracula very much if as long I think,

(14:22):
as long as he's got slipped back hair and he's
got a cape on, I think a lot of people,
you know, it's it's kind of like Batman can be
Adam West and he can be Christian Bale and people
will do the math as long as he's got a
cape and a and a massive ears on it. I think,
you know, a slick back hair and and Kate does

(14:43):
a lot of the heavy lifting, which isn't to be
dismissive of Lee's performance at all. He's terrific. But I
think for the rando going into a movie that's that's
Dracula branded. You know, this movie's not exactly really. I mean,
it adds its own nineteen seventies flavoring to it, but

(15:04):
it's also it's a very user friendly version of Dracula.
He's doing Dracula stuff. He's seducing people, you know, he's
he's wearing evening where he's looking good. He's got great
lines even though he doesn't talk that much. You know,
it's it's a Halloween costume version of Dracula in the

(15:25):
best way possible.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Wow, that's really interesting. Yeah, well, uh okay, John, can
you tell us your the theory of Satanism in Dracula?
Like k I think I'm tracking with you, but you
can explain it better than I can.

Speaker 4 (15:40):
Well, it's something that like real sort of Hammer fans,
and I know, like Tony I think has talked about
this in the past. Particularly, It's like when you look
at how Jimmie Sankster took Bramstoker's novel, created the original
horror of Dracula or Dracula in England, and took most
of the supernatural stuff away. So he's not turning into
a rat, he's not turned into wolf, he's not turning
to miss He's not you know, he's he's seductive and

(16:02):
he drinks blood. And then how gradually the character evolved
from that to become this satanic figure. And it begins
really with Draculas from the Grave, when suddenly the two
young sort of protagonists, the Roger Daltry guy, you know,
and the woman, and they like and the whole question
of theology comes into it because there's the months Signeur,

(16:23):
there's the priest, and they sort of begin to establish
the idea that to kill Dracula with the steak you
have to have religious faith and a big cross is indeed,
as you say, he's impaled on the cross of the
end of it. So Hammers open the door to something
a little more supernatural and spiritual in terms of their
Dracula and to their christally Dracula. And then in this

(16:43):
movie it goes even further with the weird ass climax
where Dracula is like in his mind imagining a consecrated church,
and what the protagonist, Anthony Corlis does is consecrate, you know,
he puts a white thing down, he puts white candles in,
He tries to make it into an actual religion thing,
and that's what kills Christopher Lee. Scars of Dracula, which

(17:04):
is coming up, which is its own fantastically wonderful like
I love Scars of Dracula.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
I know people hate it. It's so bloody.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
It's got the best puking blood bats ever. So take
a step away from the theological, except the Great blood
Bath is these bats attacking a church, you know, breaking
the seal of the of the church to kill people.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
And then by the time.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
You get to Dracula eighty nineteen seventy two, you're having
a black mass, yes, you know, and Satanic Rights of
Dracula opens with a black mass. And then Legend of
the Seven Golden Vampires also has has sort of demonology
in it. So from a character that in nineteen fifty
whatever it was is almost non supernatural, is more like

(17:48):
it's more like a social like a predator, to a
complete demonic figure is to me what happens with the hammer.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
The hammer Dracula.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
Wow, that's wonderful and you're still right, Oh, go ahead, no,
and I agree with you.

Speaker 6 (18:01):
In fact, I think they the way they built uh
courtly or courtly Ralph Bates he is.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
I mean, he's such a great villain. He's so wonder
really there's nothing likable. But I think they also tried to.
He has like the arrogance that if you read about
what people thought about like Alistair Crowley, and this is
kind of the way he approached things. And I mean,
you know, he was notorious enough. You know, I always

(18:28):
liked the story William Butler yeats kicking down some stairs
because they were tired of his craft. Like Crowley, they'd
had enough, they had a whole magic duel.

Speaker 6 (18:38):
But he he embodies that kind of flavor of black magician.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
He doesn't He's like, no, I don't have a job.
I'm a black magician.

Speaker 6 (18:50):
The women, you know, the women he comes in to
the to the brothel and they're like yeah, the women
pay him, like like what a because he's he's working
these spells.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
He where he's working his charisma as well as his magic.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
And that I believe the kids call it big dick energy.

Speaker 6 (19:08):
He's definitely, but he's just such a smarmy just the
way he approaches, you know, and he's got no time
for these you know, well well to do and in
their circles, well respected gentleman. He's basically treats.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Like, what do you want?

Speaker 6 (19:22):
What do you want? Like, I don't have time to
talk to you. Even though they're off, they're like super
rich everything. So just leading up to that and how
he brings them around like to to basically do his
bidding is fantastic. You know, all that black magic charismatic
stuff that leads up to h Jacquela's appearance is just

(19:43):
really fantastic. And boyd you just like you know when
they start when they've had enough and they start keeping like, yeah,
put in a few more.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
It's fine.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
I because we got to see his version of Baron Frankenstein,
because there is there is horror Frankenstein. I kind of
not that I would sacrifice a single inch of film
with Christopher Lee on it, but I wish I could
go to an alternate reality where they made the Dracula

(20:15):
movie that has Ralph Bates as Dracula, because I'm very
curious as to how he would have played a full
on vampire because he's he would have to do it
differently than Lee, right, because you know, he's not physically
imposing the way Lee is. Like Lee, you know, takes
up all the space in a room, like like Christopher

(20:38):
Lee just looks like he could beat the snot out
of you if he felt like it, Whereas you know,
like Ralph Bates has a very different, you know, sort
of more sociopathic energy. I guess it's it's a little
more in line with the way Cush, the way Cushing
played Baron Frankenstein, which is I think is probably why

(21:01):
he made an alright Baron Frankenstein as well. But yes,
his Dracula would have to be totally different than Lee's.

Speaker 6 (21:09):
There's also him blows to the to that newer Dracula
series that came out, you know, a few years ago.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Oh then you know, I'll one up you, Drew. I would.

Speaker 6 (21:19):
I would love to have seen the alternate universe where
there is a Ralph Bates vampire Christopher Lee vampire war like.
I would love to see like Sargon may Courtly vampire
versus like.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
I also think I also think that's this movie because
I think this movie is about the generation and the
older generation, and the weird thing is like Count Dracula,
the aristocrat is siding with the kids against these horrible
critical adults who deserve to be like killed by them.
So like the gender gap that is playing out in
the world in nineteen seventy is s writ so in

(22:00):
such primary colors in this movie. I think, I think
this is a nineteen seventies movie. It's it's post Manson,
it's post Helter Skelter, it's post Stonewall, it's post second
wave feminism, it's black pride. There is such a wave
of youth and excitement and newness to things, and I
think this is the movie for me where Hammer embraces

(22:21):
that a lot more than even things like Vampire Lovers,
which is so sort of radical to sexuality and the lesbianism.
So maybe it's like the the like the Christopher Lee
Ralph Bates matchup that I want to see is kind
of this movie.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
I think that's right true.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
I am totally I'm totally with you on that, And
you're right, like the youth is also like again very youthful,
and when turned there you know the clee that they
have being vampires. You sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
You go ahead.

Speaker 5 (22:51):
No, it's because I felt bad that Ralph Bates character
kind of gets because I think he probably wouldn't have
you know the fact that he we see that he
has this mojo or whatever. He could have probably afforded
whatever he needed to do his black mass. But because
they needed to be Dracula, then it's like he needs
these rich guys to buy Dracula stuff and then he

(23:12):
needs to be able to do the black mass. Jason
called it carnation instant Dracula, you know, the powdered Dracula blood,
and then he has to sacrifice his body, which is.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Just like I have about that Julia is if they
all had drank the blood, would they have all turned
into different versions of Dracula or into.

Speaker 5 (23:35):
Like one big Dracula body.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
They would have I think, I mean, in my best
sort of anime style, they would have like splotched down
into like oogie splotches of blood and that would have
joined together and.

Speaker 5 (23:51):
Created it would have been like like Terminator, whatever they
made of mercury, which kind of becomes.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
I wish that they're I I know that there was
some hastily written stuff here. I wish that there had
been at least one line saying that one of the
reasons why Dracula is bumping these guys off now is
because they didn't finish the ritual, and maybe he needs
them to die so he can continue to live. Like

(24:21):
That's that that would have That would have worked for me,
Like I I I perhaps I'm overthinking it, but I
I would have liked just a.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
Little well, that's fair.

Speaker 6 (24:33):
Also in my in my marvel no prize world A,
he doesn't really need them to buy it that he
doesn't want to pay for. It's like I can get
these rich guys to pay for all this drives about
two hundred and forty dollars. I think he has it,
and then he's just like, no, why should I Why
should I lord courtly pay for this?

Speaker 1 (24:54):
I think, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
It is implied that he doesn't have any money because
his father has cut him cut him off.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
I know, But like again, yeah, but do we really
think that that guy would not be overpowered by Ralph
Bates and just give up the casket full of Dracula
relics if he if he had time.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
I have I have no idea but I know that
he he that he's living for rent free with a
very flustered, stressed out pimp.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
You know. So I'm gonna use Felix as a way
to get back into Victoria because I think we gotta
we gotta get back to the Victorian question. Go ahead, ny,
I want to do that. But to finish my thought,
I think again, in my mind, he would have done
the vituals so that all those guys would have, had
they finished it, they would be his servants. He would

(25:44):
be he would be King Dracula, and they don't know it,
like they wouldn't have all become a Dracula. They would
have like he would have been here like a man.
I'm Dracula, like you guys are servants. Sorry, that's the
way the ritual goes. I think that's how it would
have played out. That would have been great because they're
all they're all highly placed, so he could have started,
you know, total stuff with the British. That's the plan,

(26:06):
in my in my opinion, that's that was the original plan.

Speaker 5 (26:09):
By the way, I know this is super obvious because
we're calling it a black mass, but the fact that
they're drinking of his blood it's like this whole, you know,
the taste of blood of Recula. It's the whole, literally,
the mass, you know, like the Catholic mass, is that
you're supposed to, supposed to be consuming the body and
blood of Christ when you take communion.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
And that's this.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
So I just think it's it's worth, you know, mentioning
the obvious, which is oh yes, Christ like anti Christ figure,
which is again back back to John's point about the Satanism.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Now does it The question is does the blood of Dracula,
since it's fizzy, is it like pop rocks or is
it cherry or is it irony?

Speaker 2 (26:46):
See I I just imagined it being like oval tine.
That's that's that's my that's my thought.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
But Dracula's blood in this film is a substance that
is particular to Dracula. It is not like like when
when you know the kids, the young lady becomes a vampire,
her blood is not going to be ugie and blobby
like like the Dracula is a special creature and and
his blood is ugie and when you drop other blood.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
I mean he's he is the king of the vampires,
you know, like the rest of the rest of the
vampires are just like you know the help.

Speaker 6 (27:25):
Yes, I can only hope that there were some weirdo
kids during the time you saw this, and uh, strawberry
quick became to the.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Like I'm just I'm just hoping.

Speaker 6 (27:37):
I'm hoping that that, like like us as teenagers, there
were some kids like, no, no, this is the blood
of Dracula.

Speaker 5 (27:43):
Our kids were lucky that we didn't watch this before
when they were little, because we used to do like
I used to do magic milk. So I'd put the
quick at the bottom of the cup and I pour
the milk in, and then I'd be like, Okay, let's do magic,
and then we do magic and then I'd stir it
and I turn pink and they'd be like wow. But
if I had watched this movie first, I'd be like, hey,
let's make.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
Dracula exactly taste of blood. Dracula strawberries. It's strawberries. Okay.
So so I want to in this brothel. See. So
here's the thing up until this movie, So the last movie,
to John's point about about generational conflict, sort of introduced
this concept that the that we're no longer sort of

(28:22):
following the married folk as the main characters. Now we
start following the young folk as the main characters, and
they're butting up against the older generation and that's very
late sixties and it's very seventies now. But this movie
really thinks that the Victorians are full of shit. I mean,
I like unlike any previous Dracula film, you know, because

(28:43):
if you if you were to look at at at
the original Dracula, they absolutely were in love with Victorian England,
and this one is like Victorian England is rotten. The
leaders are liars and they're and they're corrupt, and you know,
so you have Jeffrey Keene, who would be I know
from the James Bond movies. You know, he's so mean

(29:05):
to his daughter and his wife and they're all so
violent and yet they're out you know, drinking and wring
oh and well not all that. But he says, oh,
I got to go do my charity work that I.

Speaker 7 (29:16):
Do, right, and he claims you're doing charity, So that
is and you know what as a as a kid
in high school, my girlfriend at the time, her dad
didn't like that I had long hair.

Speaker 6 (29:27):
That was his excuse. But then I found out stuff
about him where I'm like, oh, you don't want your
daughter going out with guys because you weren't so great,
and it was just real like I.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
So when I saw that, I was like, ah, I
know this guy.

Speaker 5 (29:41):
At least my dad was honest about that. He was
always say, look, I was a young man. I know
exactly what they're thinking.

Speaker 6 (29:47):
Yeah, well that was the thing. And I found out later,
But I was always like, because you know, I'm just me.
I was, hey, I just want to go out and
hang out, you know, I don't know. I thought I
treated her really well whatever, but like it was all
he's just, oh, he's got all this stuff.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
And then but Alice's dad, Jeffrey Keane, the most repellent character,
practical hammer cannon, even though he has a moment of
repentance there at the end. If I think about watching
this and you're like, oh, these guys are going to
be moral, moral crusaders and Victorian England, and it's this
sleazy street and horrible like poorhouse, you're like, God, bless them,

(30:24):
you know, forgiven evening. And then they're in the taddeous
goddamn brothel with the worst Boa constrictor dancing and like
poor Jeffrey Key has like a hooker on his back
and he's going to be a dog and I'm like,
this is this is insane. So like those three guys
deserve everything they get for being such morals.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
He's also he's also kind of weirdly let's see, there's
with this deep he's kind of incestuous towards her, like
it's it's it's very uncomfortable. And i mean, hell he
was he was down to sell his soul to Satan,
so obviously he's no you know, saint or whatever, but

(31:08):
like that's your fucking daughter, dude, Like you know.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, he's very sexually jealous of her in ways that
are probably not healthy, and and that's you know, but
they're so reminiscent of so many of these guys that
are like, you know, ministers who get caught, you know,
like having.

Speaker 5 (31:26):
Whatever absolutely affairs with whoever, like children, or just like
they just go to to you know, to bars and
hook up with men on the weekends and they're homophobic
all week or whatever, vice versa. I mean, it's like
all the they're just it's just that it's it's it's forever.
I mean, the hypocrisy is forever.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
It's not it's not new.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Now, but that's new to Hammer. Oh go ahead, John, Sorry.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
It's exactly. Don't trust anyone over thirty. Remember that was
like that was like the catch phrase the end of
the sixties, early seventies, and true in this movie, you know,
especially because like you've made a point, Julia Early, which
is which is really interesting. I think it's true, which is,
you know, the Hammer Scape is a fairy tale, and
you have two competing fairy tales. One is this sordid

(32:09):
brothel with these horrible sweaty men, middle aged men, and
then there's the fairytale tree where the young lovers are
meeting and there's this beautiful flute theme playing and like
h comes out and Anthony Corlis Higgins is there and
they have this beautiful love scene.

Speaker 3 (32:26):
So that's like the sound of music.

Speaker 4 (32:28):
That's like some wonderful little fairy tale as opposed to
like the grim dark grim's fairy tale. And they even
go to Highgate Cemetery, so you're so you're going into
deep deep like fairytale goth there.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
But that's exactly what it is to be puritanical. It's
like this idea that you know, we have the wholesome
look at or just you know, how how things are
in the suburbs or in whatever, you know, in the
in the the rigius communities. It's like people look so
prim and proper and nice and fancy and elegant and
clean and whatever, and then in the back ground there's

(33:00):
all this p diddy stuff going on, you know. I mean,
it's just like, I don't know, so I feel like
that it really did a nice job of showing us.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Well, these guys the way they I don't want to
repeat myself too much, but the their interactions with the
pimp and Ralph Bates interaction with the pimp, and the
fact that they're all sort of different levels of upper class.

(33:28):
Like there's because you have the sex workers and the
pimp and all these people in this brothel, but there's
that class distinction that's there too. It's like these people
are there to either provide people to be used or
be used, or there's some level of the wealthy sinking

(33:48):
their teeth into the poor, and you know, which is
of course a very vampiric thing. I couldn't be more
on the nose about it if I tried, But you.

Speaker 8 (33:59):
Know, I like as sort of tacky and gross as
those scenes are. I love all the scenes in the
brothel because I feel like these guys are so interesting
in their terribleness, which is a a lot of these

(34:20):
type of characters you know, building up to this are
not as interesting or as lived in as these guys,
because you have their whole facade of who they are
during the week, in their in their town that's you know,
on the outskirts of London, and you know who they
are when they go into London as part of their

(34:42):
you know, trio, and they pretend that they don't even
know each other very well. Like this whole thing is
so thought out, and Lord knows how long that it's
been going on, and and you know, I'm not saying
I need to know anything more about them because I
think the movie he does an excellent job of giving them,

(35:04):
you know, motivation, will also not eluding them much sympathy
because they are the epitome of asshole victims.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
Like, in a way, this is almost you know. I
when we did Dracula's risen from the Grave, I I
I believe I commented on how, you know, Dracula is
starting to become the proto slasher at this point. But
this movie is very, very Friday the thirteenth, and the
fact that the the the biggest asshole seemed to be

(35:34):
the ones that like, it's like they're dying in order
of who is the biggest prick.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
And yeah, I by the way, John, you mentioned Anthony Corlis,
and I gotta say I did not recognize him as
Emil from Vampire Circus. I did not. And because that
performance in Vampire Circus, which you were on that that
episode and we talked about it, where he is he's
got his shoulders swept way back, and he's all and

(35:59):
he's got a sash around his hips, and he's always
sort of swaying and undulating that sexy Anthony is not here.
This is a different guy. It's it's really he's a
very uh uh, he's a he's he's a very remarkable
actor in that that character.

Speaker 4 (36:16):
I'll say one thing more, I think this is the
uniform of the best cast in any of the Dracula movies.
I think it is so well cast and I literally
don't think there's a weak link. I mean even in
movies I love like Scars or dacted has Risen or
Prince of Darkness, there's like one or two weak links,
but I think it is so uniformly well cast. So
starting with Roy Kanear, you know, as a salesman who

(36:38):
is just you just can't take your eyes off. He's
and the dad of my my friend Rory Kannear. You know,
I just think it's so it's a beautiful company of actors,
and it's a huge cast for one of these movies.
I mean think think back to like, you know, Prince
of Darkness.

Speaker 3 (36:53):
There's just like not as many people.

Speaker 4 (36:54):
There's a there's a big, very sort of vibrant community
in this movie, and I think it is exquisite le cast,
you know, and and corless Slash Higgins I think is
great in what he does because he's not boring and
that love stories is interesting and I'm really glad they
get away at the end.

Speaker 5 (37:10):
You know, yes, ye, the same character as he is
in Uh Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
Guys like him and Ripper, you know, Michael Ripper are
just so reliable to like just sort of sort of
fill the space and be fun to watch like he is,
Like you know, if you took a lesser actor, they
would just be boring and and and there wouldn't be
anything to this. He's interesting.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
The vibe I get from him when they come and
go into his shop is that almost like he's tormented
by these artifacts that he has gathered and gathered up,
like there there is a real sense of them being cursed.
And that's most I mean, sure the dialogue is there,
but that's mostly him that sells that, like he's so good.

Speaker 6 (38:02):
He's good, he's his shop is the prototype for the
one in the probably the thirteenth series, right.

Speaker 3 (38:11):
You and me, You and me, Tony.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
So this, by the way, the the you called him
a pimp, I would think of it more as a
major d of the of the brothel is. The character's
name is is Felix Uh and he's played by let's see,
I'm looking for Russell Hunter, who who was a well
known TV actor. I don't think I've ever seen this
camp a character in Hammer Like like honestly, it's so

(38:36):
it's so camp that I can't help but believe that
this character might be based on the MC from Cabaret,
which would come.

Speaker 5 (38:44):
You're expect him to break into field Coleman and.

Speaker 1 (38:47):
I also want to see Cabaret with vampires. By the way,
but John, get on.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
That I'm writing. I'm writing.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
There we go a little point in Crisp, who's very
much of this era.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Yes, with a flamboyant queen character.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
But I thought he was I thought he was great,
and I'm like, as a queer person, I'm like, you
go girl, Yes, Poppel.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
He's wonderful with his the lavender that he's wearing and
the rouge and everything. Well, Cabaret had actually the movie
wasn't out yet, but it had come to the West
End in nineteen sixty eight, so it is entirely possible.
But I think you're right about Quentin Crisp. I think
that that probably is more likely. This character comes from somewhere.
I mean, but we've never seen a character like and

(39:32):
that once again goes back to this theme. This is
a different Victorian England than the one that Terence Fisher.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
He seems I love how put upon he is because
he is this campy, showman like character. He also, I mean,
this could just be me, but he also sort of
seems like he hates his job, and I dig that, Like,
I don't think he particularly he all like, no matter

(39:59):
what he thinks about everything else. He obviously hates Ralph
Bates so well.

Speaker 6 (40:04):
I would guess that it's his job to cater to
all these rich assholes. But if he was on the street,
those rich assholes would treat him like garbage. And so
he's this dichotomy of I ruled this place and I
could ruin you, but I'm not allowed to be in
the same society as you. So what a collection of

(40:25):
just assholes like And that's how he that's and that's
the world that that like in between world that he
has to watch. I also love that he's also you
know what are you looking for? I can hook you
up with it, like, oh, I know what you want?

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Like his command of his palace is pretty fantastic as well.
And I thought that you could the way they say
a lot with a character who doesn't have a lot
of screen time. But uh, I think he was really fantastic,
perfect for the role, perfect for what the thrust of
the movie that he that he puts out there. But yeah,

(40:59):
it's great.

Speaker 4 (40:59):
Also not a character, not a character you could have
in one of the sort of like uh Dracula movie
that's not in Victorian London, because it's like an oscar
you couldn't put that character in in you.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
Know, Dracula has risen from the grave.

Speaker 4 (41:13):
It just wouldn't would make no sense in terms of
like Victorian London osquad all of that, that character sort
of belonged, that flamboyant sort of belongs there.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Perhaps movie, you know when I say that this particular
one makes me think the most of Penny Dreadful, Perhaps
that's what I'm picking up on because the stuff in
the Brothel seems like it could be in the universe
of your show.

Speaker 4 (41:40):
So yeah, this this movie was was huge important for
Penny Dreadful for a number of reasons.

Speaker 3 (41:45):
First of all, the design. If you look.

Speaker 4 (41:47):
At like Alice's house, the wallpaper in Alice's house, that
unbelievably elaborate Victorian wallpaper. I actually had our product designer
watch this movie. I'm like, look at the wallpaper. Look
how overstuffed these Victorian roots. And you don't find that
anywhere else in Hammer except for this movie. And also structurally,

(42:08):
there's a lot of subplots. You're constantly going back and
forth with these characters. You have the young characters, the
older characters, Dracula, Courtney. You know, there's a there's so
many interesting flamboyant, larger in life characters and subplots, it
interweaving constantly.

Speaker 5 (42:24):
Yeah, Jason picked up on that with the with the sets.
He was saying, like, look, how how you didn't say cluttered?
Would you say, Jason, howe bric how busy? How busy
is what you said? Look how busy the sets are
with all the plants and the bricker back. You're like,
there's not a lot of these films. They just have
all these plane services.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
But that's just that's.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Not how people are.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
But I wanted to go back real quick, just say
about the about the MC characters, you called them that
his Also he's got his reputation to worry about. And
that Ralph Bates showing up and looking in on everybody's
like picking, you know, just going and looking in on
every that he's business. That's not okay if he's going
to run this establishment with all these rich people showing up,

(43:06):
because the discretion is the name of the game, you know.
So if you got this guy that's kind of checking
everybody else, like nobody's gonna want to come here anymore,
and he's gonna lose his business.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, I want to know more. I want this world
of this movie to sort of crown out in all
these different directions. I would like to see more about
this brothel. I would like to see more, you know,
about what the heck Dracula plans on doing once he once,
because you can imagine, Dracula has just been what does
Dracula want? He's just been raised in his first order

(43:36):
of business as he wants to like punish. Basically, this
is just fun for him. He wants to have fun
punishing the people who beat his servants servant to death,
even though that's twisted, that's you know, like in other words,
the perversion of that that that was necessary to him
coming here. I think that perversion fits with him. But
surely there's something he wants after this, and we never
we never get to it.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Yeah, a.

Speaker 6 (44:00):
Real quick I would also watch. I would love to
see an an anthology series where Felix, interacting with Felix,
leads you to the next kind of night gallery. Felix
introduces them to something and then from there we get
this twisted tale.

Speaker 3 (44:22):
During that right now, that would just be amazing.

Speaker 1 (44:25):
I would I would watch, I would write, I would
read like that would be an amazing series of this,
like flamboyant who's basically in he'd become, you know, he
would almost be like a Canaan Abele kind of character,
but but he would be Felix and it would lead
to these stories that would be amazing. I would watch that, Jason.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
It's like it is, yeah, what what are you up to? Dracula?
What's the next reel? Because he like he's not interested
in the the character.

Speaker 4 (44:52):
He blows off Alice like you, servet, well, what are
you interested in?

Speaker 2 (44:57):
What?

Speaker 3 (44:57):
What exactly is the plan here?

Speaker 1 (44:59):
You know?

Speaker 4 (44:59):
It is it is sort of like the movie meanders
a bit when it gets into sort of that other
than like the first the second, and so that's that's
a shame. And it's it's sort of like you some
something like Scars of Dracula, you know, or Dracula or
Satanic Rights. It's a very clear plan our Dracula has,
you know, but here he's sort of he sort of

(45:21):
floats around a bit, and I don't know what he
would do if he were to continue.

Speaker 5 (45:24):
Really, and that's probably because of the rewrites, because of
the fact that they didn't have that plan.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
I'd like to think that after Dracula went on his
murder spree that maybe, you know, he'd be like, I
finally got to England. I'm gonna have a vacation. Maybe
I'm gonna have a meat pie. Uh you know, I
hear I hear beans on toast is a thing, you know, go.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Down to cars.

Speaker 6 (45:51):
Realistic, Yeah, I think you would be into whatever, Like
what are you doing now, Dracula, you know, instead of
I'm going to go to his land, he'd be like,
I'm gonna do demon whatever, Satan like he killed all
those people, Dracula like, now you're free to do whatever.
I'm about to do as much Satanic stuff as I
can possibly fit into.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
This is the problem. See I love Dracula as a character, okay,
but this is the problem, one of the major problems
with Dracula as a character, because like Jack the Ripper
wants to kill ladies and and you know, so the Lodger,
all he's doing is killing people. But Dracula is this
ruler guy. He wants to come to England because he

(46:35):
has big plans because he studied with Satan. You know,
in chapter eighteen they say he's studied with Satan and
he's ready to come to come do some stuff. And
it gets interrupted, but we never other than in Satanic
Rites of Dracula, where he does have a big James
Bond plan. This guy is such a big dude, and

(46:56):
he's so magnificent in the sense of just greatness. Needs
a major plan, and for some reason, Hammer never really
gives us that plan.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Well, I mean, his his in the previous movie. His
his motivations are entirely personal, like you, you defaced my castle,
so I'm going to go on a roaring rampage of revenge.
This I guess it's also a revenge scheme, but it's
for some guy that he doesn't really know, and who's

(47:28):
whose body he basically took over.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
I think it's just perversion. He wants to like talk
with some people. But I and that's great. I mean
that that's that's really interesting. But I just feel like
this character is so big that the movies do him
a slight disservice that we don't see him like this
is like Drags from Moonraker. He needs to have like
a big plan and and and he.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Rarely well, I mean, in most Dracula movies, I think
it would be fine to say, well, I'm I'm taking
their their women. But as as John pointed out, he's
he's basically got no use for them.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
After once he's passed that, he's, you know, he's like,
well that was fun, but it's not the kind of
Dracula fun I want to have continuously. Jason, when he
goes when he says I studied with Satan, what you
didn't know is he actually they both studied homeg right,
the souther Beans and toast thing that that uh, you

(48:28):
know Drew was talking about mepis, it was because they
studied studied homech with Satan.

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Like Draculas. This is why when people approached Dracta.

Speaker 4 (48:37):
Then you know, Dan Curtis invented the idea of Parmac
Josette the past Love, which became Meana and all the
Dracula movies. Which is why you have that tired trope
to try to give up a roll, which is like, oh,
I see a picture of Mina or Lucy, and I'm
gonna she's my long lost love from when I was
the sort of the conqueror warrior like the Gary Oldman
Won or many other versions of it, and therefore I'm

(48:59):
going to go win her back and recover something. So
that gives, that gives a goal and arc. It's totally bogus,
ridiculous when when Dracula gets romantic in that way as
opposed to the Franklin Jellow dragtions romantic in terms of
seduction because of what he wants to achieve as a predator.
I buy, But the idea of love Lord Dracula is
the worst and most tired trope.

Speaker 6 (49:21):
No, I agree, as I think, you know, if we
wanted to say, well with Dracula do in England. As
far as things that would be Dracula like, I don't
think I've ever seen Dracula try to insinuate him into
the court and basically become you know, right but you
or just take over the you know that is that
is a thing.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
I hate that. That's that's the Anto Dracula series by
Kevin Newman, and it's fucking is great. If you have
if you have not read those books, you should read them.

Speaker 4 (49:55):
Yeah, those those Kim You're right, Drew, those Kim Newman
books are astounding. But as he pulls in like there
with Johnny Ala Card, there's count Yorga, there's like there's
like Barren Meinster. Any vampire reference you've ever loved is
somewhere in those books.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Yeah, he's pretty amazing. I mean, Kim Newman knows his
shit and is you can tell he's a very talented,
big nerd, and so he just he just packs those books.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
I think my favorite thing he did in any of
those books, though, wasn't actually vampire related. In one of
the later books, they finally get into Hollywood and they
they cut to the family from the Texas Chainsaw Massacre,
who he has as recast as the Beverly Hillbillies. So

(50:44):
Leatherface is living it up in Beverly Hills and that
is hysterical to me on so many levels.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
That's that's really great. I love it. You know. I
want to talk a little bit about I know we've
been going around and around, but I want to talk
bit about the end, which finally makes sense. And I
wish there had been a line of dialogue from somebody saying, ah,
you are you are reconsecrating the church and it will
make the demon part of him, uh react. That would

(51:13):
have been great.

Speaker 5 (51:14):
We needed a John Logan rewrite on this one, I.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
H But I wanted to ask about actually favorite Dracula deaths,
because I don't think this is anybody's favorite Dracula death.
But there's some your favorite Dracula death and most likely
from Hammer because they got the most of them. But
what's what's your favorite? And John, you can go first.

Speaker 4 (51:35):
If mine would be uh, I think Dractlos was from
the Grave, the impaling on the Cross is I think
that's probably my favorite. And the fight, the fight at
the end of the Horror of Dracula is just unbelievable.
Those two are sort of neck and neck for me.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, what Horror of Dracula is
your favorite?

Speaker 5 (51:59):
Torn between the I that maybe because of the most
recent that we watched too, But I loved the the
Teeter Tattery ice you know Iceberg.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Oh yeah, well that's a Prince of Darnas.

Speaker 5 (52:09):
Yeah, another fight one, but uh but no, I love that.
But the impaling on the Cross is my favorite.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Too many times I've I've done school visits to talk
about the Alex Van Helsing books and I always sort
of try to reenact for the kids Peter Cushing like
leaping onto the table and then leaping and tearing down
the curtains with the light and everybody's just like they
get on the edge of their seats when they hear
about just all the physicality of Peter Cushing, you know,

(52:36):
just running and jumping and grabbing the curtains and everything.
That's a great ending. Tony, do you have a favorite
Dracula death? I like the swash Buckley cross as a windmill,
right and bride'ess of Dracula. There's something just magical about that,
that flavor of like it's just so large. Yes, I

(52:59):
agree physically and just kind of how it plays out. Oh,
by the way, it's skipping back, I will. I want
to give more props to this movie for having the vampires.
I can't remember if it's been I'm sure it's been
done before and I'm just not recalling it. But where
they go, oh, oh, steaks against us, how about steaks
against humans? Turn that back around on you and it's

(53:21):
and they're you know, the stakes they have are these
huge they're like, you know, two foot long, just horrific
impalement devices, and like in the vampires are like, oh no, no, no, no,
I think we're going to use this on us. I
think it's time for you to taste this and that
I there's a lot of that kind of stuff that
is in this film. And you know when when I

(53:41):
think we.

Speaker 6 (53:42):
Were kind of like I said, pregaming it maybe a
while back and said, well, this isn't.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
You know, everybody's favorite, I'm like, I don't know, man,
there's a.

Speaker 6 (53:48):
Lot to like in this movie that you don't see
all the time in vampire movies, even, I mean even
in Hammer, Like this is kind of unique in many ways.
So that I thought was also just really great.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
There's a I think it might have been Marnie knocks
On who wrote the line, you'd be surprised how many
things that'll kill, like as far as like pounding a
stake through somebody's chest. So yeah, yeah, yeah, Drew, did
you have a favorite Dracula death?

Speaker 2 (54:17):
I love Dracula getting impelled on the cross. It's it's
so I mean, because you know, being staked by a
normal plank of wood is bad enough, but you I
just think how much that probably hurt. It just it
just seems like the perfect end to Dracula, and I

(54:39):
ough man, like I I that scene of Dracula writhing
around on the cross kind of lives rent free in
my my head permanently, Like you know, like when I
think about any death from a Hammer Dracula movie. That's
the first one. I I go to, I you also

(55:00):
really like the windmill, but that's not technically Dracula, so
I I could, but it is possibly the best van
Helsing scene in any of these movies.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
That was that was continuing the Aerow Flynn van Helsing
kind of thing that had going on.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Well, I don't think I don't think this sort of
idea of like that that the Vampire Hunter as action hero.
I don't think that that would exist without Hammer, and
I certainly don't think it would exist without Peter Cushing
because he he added this this, you know, his his
van Helsing. It's it's not quite the van Helsing from

(55:41):
the book, you know, the van I think when we
were doing Nosferatu back back, you know, in December, I think,
you know, we talked about how William Dafoe's character is
really more Van Helsing from the book, and that is
that is not quite what Peter Cushing is playing. But uh,

(56:01):
I don't care. Peter Cushing is great and Hammer is great.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
No, it's fantastic. Uh my favorite, by the way, I
think honestly, all the all the Peter Cushing stuff is perfect.
But what pops into my head is always the well
still Peter Cushing, but Peter Cushing versus Dracul at the
beginning of Dracula eighteen nineteen seventy two, when they're fighting
on top the carriage fight and everything and the and
the wooden, the broken the broken wheel, and Cushing like

(56:30):
shoves it into his chest like there's always like he said,
the physicality of these two actors, I think we forget
a lot because they could also be quite stuffy, but
both of them were just very physical. And Christopher Lee,
the way that he's able to like move his whole
body and writhe around and always always seen the transform
into a bug version of himself whenever he's dying is

(56:52):
just great.

Speaker 6 (56:52):
There should be a blade where it's that but in
a you know, modern like jumping from car to car, Yes,
you do. You do a very john Wick style version
of that, very modern fast and it would work really
well because also because that choreography is awesome, so you
could you could do it not a really cool modern

(57:13):
nod to that.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
It would be absolutely I only accept this if Dracula
has his Gene coll In pencil mustache from from the
original tomb of like, my wish for a Blade reboot
is that they would just set it in the seventies
and make everybody look as much like a Gene Colon drawing.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Im possible.

Speaker 6 (57:37):
If anybody wanted to do like that the flavor of
Duster but vampires, I would send me there.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
I'm totally down with that. I I don't know why
we're talking about this, but I still really want swinging
sixties Dracula, and I think doing it in twenty twenty
six or so would be just brilliant because it's it's
similar to when we were growing up placing a movie
in the forties, you know, and and yeah, so all right,

(58:03):
which is a frightening thought, but still okay.

Speaker 5 (58:06):
By the way, along those lines, I did look up
the ages of these guys, and they are in fact
our age, but I don't I guess I don't count
his middle aged unless I'm going to live for a
long time, so I still stand by it.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
But they are our age. Jeffrey Keen Jeffrey Keen occupies
a special place in my pop culture life because for
years Bernard Lee was sick and then died, and so
Jeffrey Keene stepped in as the Minister of Defense who
became James Bond's boss in the Roger Moore era for

(58:37):
a couple of movies, so you know, he's the guy.
I can't remember which ones. I think in Moonraker maybe
and Your Eyes Only So so I was just so
then to see him crawling around the floor with a
prostitute on his back. That's still there. Seven. All right,
So I think we've hit on probably everything. But before

(58:58):
we go to final thoughts, is there anything that we
want to bring up, like like like something or I
can I can go straight to uh to final thoughts
that I wanted to throw it out there.

Speaker 6 (59:07):
I mean, I do think like we kind of glossed
over there. There is a really cast it's a really
great romance at the at the you know, we talked
a little bit of we kind of skirted around it,
but this the romance that the younger uh you know,
cast members have and then you know how it's this
you can't go out with my daughter part.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
But then also the they go back to.

Speaker 6 (59:30):
You can save somebody by killing the lead vampire, which
hasn't been something that that's you know, that's the lord
that they brought back in this one and the concern
that he's like, I have to save you know, and
and you want you want them to be together, you
want you want that to happen, and uh, the kind
of thrust to go, well, I have to confront a

(59:51):
hooka by crook, I have to confront Tracula and do
these things. And also also because I love the part
where he says where there's this montage of him studying, says, I,
you know, I need you need to study this. You
need to study basically, do detective work to be the
anti Dracula. And the hero rises to that occasion and
that's when he, you know, he does the thing where

(01:00:12):
he consecrates the church and nobody there's this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
You know, we probably would in a.

Speaker 6 (01:00:17):
Modern movie, we probably have a longer montage and it
would seem more like a montage of him probably going
to different libraries and all that kind of stuff. But
they condense it, and I think that I really liked
that aspect of him. You know, I have to save
my love and having it not be Dracula who has
the love.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Dracula throws away love.

Speaker 6 (01:00:35):
And partly it comes from the we you know, we
set it up with Courtly just going, yeah, women pay
me and whatever. You know, I don't care about any
of them. Kind of having that carry through Dracula and
the way he treats women, which is, you know, terrible,
but it works for Dracula. Uh and then kind of
our hero being the antithesis of that is. I just
thought that was really a nice bit.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
That's nice. I like that, And it is gorgeous the romance,
especially with the outdoor set and the gazebo and you know,
oh yeah you pointed out the flute playing and everything.
It's it is. It's like it also helps.

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
That they're really really really good looking people there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Beautiful people, right, the beautiful young lovers.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Yeah, no, because fuck them if they're ugly.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
This is just the world, the world of the movies.
All right. Uh, let's get our final thoughts. So we're
gonna go John, Julia Drew, and Tony Uh. John, Uh,
tell me your thoughts about you know, just getting to
discuss uh taste a lot of Dracula and and your

(01:01:42):
thoughts in the film. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:01:43):
I love talking about these movies with you guys, because,
like you know, I was I heard you guys doing
you know, Draca.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Has risen and just it's it's this it's such a
unique you.

Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
Know, we talk a lot in Hollywood nowadays about world building,
you know, it's a big thing. And Hammered did work
old building like nobody else in that period, you know.
And they didn't have a lot of money and they
didn't have the resources that a lot of movie does,
but they created a real world. And I think Taysom,
The Blood of Dracula is a very complete unit. It's
own little reverse, you know, and I think it's it's

(01:02:13):
sort of beautifully rendered from performance to music to art direction,
you know, And I think that's that's admirable. The fact
that you know, Peterson has to be the director, you know,
he wasn't Terrence Fisher or Freddy Francis.

Speaker 3 (01:02:25):
He probably new to it. He brought this sort of
a real, a real sort of.

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
Newness to to the way he shot the movie. It
felt more real.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
In a way.

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
And then it's it's also a perfect launching for you know,
The Scars of Dracula, which I know, Jason you love
as well, which is just like people hate that movie
and I love that movie because Chris really gets to
talk a lot, you know it, yes, and there's so
much extraneous blood in that movie. It's the antithesis of
this movie because the sets aren't so great. It's a

(01:02:55):
little superficial, but it's like it is like a great,
you know, Dracula movie. So this is the classy version
of Dracula before we like go into the pulp of Scars.

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
So I just love it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
Wow, that's really that's really beautifully said. Yeah, thank you,
and thank you for loving Scars of Dracula because I've
always felt I always felt like I was alone in that. Uh, Julia,
what are your what are your thoughts?

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
I really enjoyed this discussion because, like Drew, I had
kind of been left wanting more at the end. But
I like how John talked about it that it's that
it becomes because I keep talking about how all these
different items take on their power because of faith, and
so I think that's pretty cool that the church takes

(01:03:39):
on power because of faith.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
So I did like that.

Speaker 5 (01:03:42):
But this has been a really interesting conversation and it's
a really interesting film with lots of different themes and
uh some some really cool metaphors for today or some
some you know, all the dichotomies and hypocrisies that we
talked about, which are unfortunately very present in our world still,
So yeah, really interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Thank you very much, Drew. What about you?

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
First of all, I just I need We've actually had
a string of really good vampire movies lately, but I
really would love to see a vampire movie that leans
into the occult the way these Hammer movies do, because
that is basically my favorite flavor of vampire. I like

(01:04:31):
the idea of Dracula and by extension, other vampires is
sort of this marauding satanic force, not necessarily for you know,
any particular religious reasons. I just find it kind of
fascinating and interesting in a sort of invasion of the

(01:04:53):
body snatchers kind of way, and this movie does do
that very very well. Like I said, I I I
was happy to revisit this one because it's not one
that's in my regular rotation, so it had it had
been long enough that while watching it it felt a
little bit more fresh and so like like the like

(01:05:14):
the scene that that Tony talked about where the vampires
drive a stake through a human's heart, I'd completely forgotten
that that was in that in this and you know,
so what what a what a nice uh you know
thing to come back to as a horror fan, you know,
seeing that that existed, and you know, so every Hammer

(01:05:35):
Dracula has its own riches to it, and it's such
a good, solid series of of horror films. But also,
you know, what a great excuse to have have a
conversation with some of my favorite people. And I'm also
going to be very proud of myself that I I

(01:05:56):
picked up on the influence on Petty Dreadful. I will
sleep better tonight knowing that I I wasn't just talking
out of my ass and I was actually on something.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Go me, well done, well done? Uh Tony, what about you? Yeah?
I mean I really enjoy the movie.

Speaker 6 (01:06:15):
Like I said before, I think there's a lot of
it has There's a lot to it. There's a lot
of great character acting, beautiful sets. To Drew's point, I
do also like the Dracula as a source of corruption.
You know, Romantic Draculas is interesting, and you know that's
fine too, but this this idea that Dracula is there

(01:06:37):
to twist, to corrupt, to tear through things both physically
and emotionally and spiritually, I think that makes them for
some really interesting stuff, you know, And I.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Agree, John. I agree with you about the world building.
There's so much. There's nice tweaks to the Dracula lore.
There's the end part where there is a battle of faith,
people holding crosses.

Speaker 6 (01:06:59):
And they glow when you have faith, and they don't
glow when you don't, and they don't affect.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Him when that happens. And that's you know.

Speaker 6 (01:07:04):
And I'm also the guy, like for the two things
that Jason and I worked on. I was the person
who wrote, you know, dozens of pages of you know,
story Bible. So anytime I see that kind of deep
world building, like, I'm like, yeah, that's that's the stuff
I like.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
I like those little bits, and I like digging deeper
into those bits, not that you have to explain everything,
but just like you can feel that there's more behind them.
In the same way, like I said, like I would
watch the whole anthology of Felix because I think there's
something there. There's a lived in like you get like
where he's coming from, you know, And I think everybody
has that in this movie, which is just fantastic. So

(01:07:42):
I'm really glad we covered it. Thank you very very much,
all right, And I just endorse everything that you guys said, so,
so I will I will skip final thoughts, uh, because
I've been talking all the way through all of this,
So I do want to get endorsements though, I want
to know what you guys have been. Like last week,
I endorsed Picture Windows because I'm the only person in

(01:08:02):
America who watched that series. So, uh, so tell me
what you have to bring to our attention. And we're
gonna start with John And I know you come up
with some some crazy shit, so so so what what
do you or maybe not so crazy? Do you tell me?

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
This is?

Speaker 3 (01:08:17):
This is not so crazy?

Speaker 4 (01:08:18):
But I was texting you about this, Jason, because I
recently got like a really good Blu Ray four K
version of Planet of the Vampires, the Mario Baba's Planet
of the Vampires from Radiance, and I watched it again
on a huge screen because this rental house I'm in
has an amazing TV and it's just the most.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
Extraordinary movie, which sent me on the.

Speaker 4 (01:08:40):
Whole Mariobaba like, I am deep deep in now to that.
And uh, you know, shout Factor is coming up with
a disc a box set of like a twelve movies
is coming out.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
You can pre order it now, which I have.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
So I've been enjoying just the incredible creation of of
those those color and the way he would tell us
story so poetically and evocatively, and the thing I admire
most about writers or artists working in so many genres.

Speaker 3 (01:09:11):
There's a spy movie.

Speaker 4 (01:09:12):
And a thriller, and a horror movie and a science
fiction movie, and it's just they're all sort of very
beautifully crafted works of art, these these. So I'm all
Mario Bava all day long.

Speaker 1 (01:09:25):
That's that's wonderful. Okay, So that's coming from that Bava.
Oh we just did Barren Blood recently, by the way,
which is just one of my favorite Bava's. Even though
it's like late late late Bava so sleazy, it's truly
one of my favorite, like Italian horror movies of the
mid century. So that's also those costumes in uh are

(01:09:46):
just so fantastic in that movie. Yeah, just iconic, like
just fantastic. You can't you can't beat that. Oh my god,
I'm looking at this box set you're talking about. It's
got Lisa in the Devil. Yeah, you have to come
back to talk about Lisa and the Devil. Got it,
Like holy shit, that is such a weird movie and

(01:10:09):
it just gets weirder the more you know about it.
It is holy. Yes, yes, when that box that comes
out for sure. Yeah, maybe earlier. So okay, I'm sorry,
I see I'm talking too much, Julia, What do you
have to endorse for us?

Speaker 5 (01:10:25):
We decided to binge watch over the weekend Department Q,
which is on Netflix. It's another one of those wonderful
British procedurals that's like, you know, solving cases in a
small town. Such a good show. It was really really good.
We just would just tour through the whole thing. So
that would probably be my mind because the movies we
watched are fine, but.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
I think that was my favorite thing that was That
was really great. Yes, yeah, that was a it was funny.
You just gonna I guess we're watching this for nine hours.
I don't know. I can't explain.

Speaker 5 (01:10:55):
It over two days.

Speaker 1 (01:11:00):
Okay, Drew, what about you?

Speaker 2 (01:11:02):
Well, I have a big announcement. I am going to
be a guest speaker at San Diego Comic Con this year,
which is insane. A few about a month or so back,
I got a phone call from Comic Con International and

(01:11:26):
they asked me if I wanted to do a panel
on the history of Halloween Man, which is having its
twenty fifth anniversary this year, and so I am proud
to announce that I'm doing a panel called Halloween Man
twenty five Years of Punk Rock Comics. It's going to
be Fridays seven to twenty five, from eight pm to

(01:11:51):
nine pm in Room twenty five ABC. So it is.
It is eighteen and up. It's after There's going to
be special guests from the comic book industry that I
cannot announce yet, but they're gonna be cool people, and yeah,
come watch this panel. Ask questions, Uh, listen to me

(01:12:17):
ramble on about a career spent writing about the batshit
crazy stuff that I write about and making a living
making comic books and somehow I've made that happen for
for over two decades. So you know, just mention that
you listen to this podcast if nothing else, that'll help

(01:12:39):
me get over my imposter syndrome, because I am a
guest at San Diego Comic Con and that is messing
with my head.

Speaker 1 (01:12:48):
So I'm so proud of you, Drew. That is so wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
I am. I am. I'm blushing right now. Like I
I I scarcely believe that this is actually happening to me,
like it feels like it's happening to somebody else. And
that's that's It's both good and intimidating at the same time.
But thank thank you for the kind, kind words of

(01:13:14):
encouragement and yeah, I wow. So uh, I guess also
you should check out the pe Wee Herman documentary. That's
my other that's my other, my other endorsement, because the
pe Wee Herman documentary is also really good. I'm I'm
not involved with it, but it's fascinating and heart touching

(01:13:36):
and and kind of sad, but in a in the
best way possible. And I also think relatable for anybody
who is a creative that that hey maybe has been
overtaken by their creation at times. So I guess I did.
I did circle it back to my panel in a way.

(01:13:58):
There we go. Uh so, yeah, got on my panel
and then but before that, your homework is that you
need to watch the Pewee Herman documentary peeweis Himself, because
if you and if I hear you listen to this
podcasting to be like, did you do your homework? Did
you watch watch the Pewee Herman documentary and you're gonna
be like, wow, he was serious about this, and I

(01:14:19):
was like, fuck yeah, I was serious about it. Anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
Yeah, I'm done, well done, well done, well done. I'm
so happy to hear that. That's that's really great. I
gotta figure out way maybe we can forget a way
to go see you, Tony. What about you?

Speaker 6 (01:14:33):
Well, first and foremost true, you have worked amazingly hard.
You deserve all of this. Your your writing is fantastic,
your comic is great. I know that I to, you know,
have imposter syndrome in many many ways, so I'm not
telling you to not feel the way you feel. But uh,
this is a culmination of a lot of hard work
and you know, just being being cool and being cool

(01:14:56):
to other artists and everything. So I am super proud.
I think that's an amazing way to go. That's really
really cool man. As far as endorsements go, I watched
a lot of stuff. I really enjoyed Megan two point zero,
which people have said they thought it was more like
T two, but I spotted that it's more like Robot

(01:15:18):
Tricks or Lady Terminator and with tons of just like
stuff like little easter eggs, cinematic Easter eggs that they
didn't have to do. Now, granted, maybe people wanted more
of a horror story and I get that, but I
had low expectations and came out with a smile on
my face, going, oh, you clever bastards. You did this,
and you did then this was from this movie that

(01:15:40):
you didn't have to put in, but there you did.
So I get why people might have wanted something different,
but I really liked it. I also really enjoyed the
bonkers Batman versus Yaka is the League, which is a continuation.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
Of the like Batman, you know, anime and movies and
Wow and also you know it says it's a Batman movie,
but their version of Yaka's a wonder Woman, Harley and
Joker really stole the show for me. I thought that
was fantastic. And then we you know, the other thing
we watched. We went back and watched the eighty eight

(01:16:16):
BBC Lion The Witch in the Wardrobe. We got a
hanker in to see that, followed by another more of
that kind of flavor, one of Rain's favorites, which is
the Grennagogue, which if you haven't gone back to kind
of folk that's in that the British folk horror, you
know genre. So I think that probably played on like

(01:16:38):
Nickelodeon or something back in the day when they were doing.

Speaker 6 (01:16:41):
Like Tomorrow People, and they licensed a bunch of stuff.
I think that's where she would have seen it, and
she introduced that. But you know, now you have to
kind of go to YouTube, which I'm glad. I mean,
I would buy discs if they were out there, you know,
of course, But you know, I was surprised that the
eighty eight Lion, the Witch in the Wardrobe, and I
think they did Silver Chair and don Treader and I

(01:17:03):
don't know why those why there aren't why there isn't
a box set, I have no idea, but it was
a nice bit of nostalgia.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
But yeah, that's where I've been in the past week
or two. Thank you. My endorsement is going to be Ticktown,
which is a book that Castle Bridge Media just put out,
which was today still the number one new horror book
in America on on Amazon. And I'm just very proud
of Christopher Michelos. The author's his debut novel and it's

(01:17:31):
about a hot and sweaty town in the middle of
summer where a bunch of mutated ticks are killing people.
And I mean you can't you can't get any better
than that, and it's gotten lots of good reviews. I'm
just so thrilled by it. So so check out check
out Ticktown. That's log rolling and I apologize, but but
sometimes you just have to. I was very, very thrilled.

(01:17:54):
So okay, that brings us to the end of our
discussion of Taste the Blood of Dracula. John, So thank
thank you so much for being our guest. As always,
You're a blast, and come on come back to talk
about Lisa and the Devil, but come back anytime.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
Honestly, I couldn't tell you how much I enjoy seeing
you guys, and just checking in again does does my
heart a world of good to know that you're you're
You're there.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
Back at you all right, Everybody be kind to one another. Remember,
you never know what anybody else is going through, so
so uh, you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
Know, unless you're Dracula, then you know that you're up
to some Satanic ship, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
So, or if you're Vampire Hunter, what's going through is
a stake to Dracula. In theory, if you're lucky. Uh
and uh, all right, come to the Facebook page.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
Remember remember when Jason used to talk about kidnapping people
and like basically torturing them.

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
What are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
I'm just saying it's personal growth. Now he tells people
to be time to each other.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
It was a good it was a good guy. But
you can't do it for more than a couple of years.

Speaker 2 (01:19:05):
I'm I'm proud of you. I'm proud of I'm proud
of him. He's grown as a person. He's he's he's
putting out good vibes. So yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:19):
Yeah, By the way, we're watching Superman this weekend, so
I can't wait to be able to discuss it. Yeah,
I can't wait to discuss it, honestly, truly.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
So all right, well I I hear that he has
the underwear on on the outside this time, so it's
a proper Superman movie.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
So yeah, there you go. Yes, but we should we
should stall that conversation until next week. And yes, but
thanks everybody, be good bye, Thank you by everybody.

Speaker 7 (01:19:51):
N

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TASTE THE BLOOD OF DRACULA - Podcast/ Discussion with Special Guest John Logan (Penny Dreadful, Skyfall, Gladiator)

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}TASTE THE BLOOD OF DRACULA - Podcast/ Discussion with Special Guest John Logan (Penny Dreadful, Skyfall, Gladiator)