The Halloween Tree (Podcast/Discussion)

This week we have a Halloween film, the 1993 animated film The Halloween Tree. This is episode 469! 
The Halloween Tree is a 1993 American animated fantasy-drama television film produced by Hanna-Barbera and based on Ray Bradbury's 1972 fantasy novel of the same name. The film tells the story of a group of trick-or-treating children who learn about the origins and influences of Halloween when one of their friends is spirited away by mysterious forces. Bradbury serves as the narrator of the film, which also stars Leonard Nimoy as the children's guide, Mr. Moundshroud. Bradbury also wrote the film's Emmy Award winning screenplay. The animation of the film was produced overseas for Hanna-Barbera by Fil-Cartoons in the Philippines. The film premiered on ABC on October 2, 1993.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Castle of Horror, the show dedicated
to horror movies and awesomeness. This week we have a
Halloween film, the nineteen ninety three animated film The Halloween Tree.
This is episode four hundred and sixty nine. Bear in
mind if you haven't seen today's movie, we're going to
be talking about it from the perspective of horror fans
who have seen it. So warning spoilers ahead. From Denver, Colorado,

(00:29):
I'm your host, Jason Henderson, publisher at castle Bridge Media,
home of the Castle of Horror anthology. With me from
Austin is Tony Savaggio, lead singer and bassist of the
band Deserts and Mars and lead guitarists the band Rise
from Fire Sale an Tony Howdy Howdy. Also in Austin.
Mister Drew Edwards is the writer creator of the long
running underground comic Halloween Man, which you can find of

(00:52):
Global Comics. He is a Best Writer RINGO nominee, Austin
Chronicle Best of Austin Award winner and a member of
the Pen American Fellowship and I should There was also
the brand new trade paperback out, so so yeah. You
can also find it in trade paperback wherever your finest
books are sold, Say Hello, Drew, Ready set go Yeah,

(01:13):
And finally, also in Denver, color commentary from Julia Guzman
of Gusman Immigration of Denver, say hello.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
That for sure Drew was going to say, Oh my.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Gosh, Yes, that was the that's the thing that the gargolene. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
I opted for a Pip line because you know, Pip
is the mcguffin of the story.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
Julia I should mention is also the chair of the
American Immigration Laws Association in Colorado. All Right. The Halloween
Tree is a nineteen ninety three American animated fantasy drama
television film produced by Hannah Barbera, based on Ray Bradbury's
nineteen seventy two book of the same name. He narrates it.

(01:59):
The film tells the story of a group of trigger
treating kids who learn about the origins and influences of
Halloween when one of their friends is spirited away by
mysterious forces. Bradbury is the narrator. Leonard Nimoy is sort
of the guide the frightening Mister Mound Shroud, and Bradbury
also wrote the Emmy Award winning screenplay The animation of

(02:22):
the film was done overseas by Hannah Barbara and it
came out in ABC October of nineteen ninety three. Julia
and I, Julia, you and I. We we were together then.
Actually we had an apartment in DC. I remember this
movie coming out, but I remember we didn't finish it,
so we were in the.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Last couple of months of planning our wedding, right.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
I remember though, in his like Pip was the most
amazing child that had ever been born. Pip won every
arm wrestling match he entered. Pip was on every baseball card,
and you were like, good God, this kid is amazing.
So yes, I don't remember any of the things they
actually said about it. I just, you know, just is

(03:03):
the Chuck Norris of children. Essentially. Okay, let's get our
opening thoughts will go Tony, Julia true, and then I'll
take a sentence of the conversation. Tony, gosh the Halloween trees.
So what are your thoughts? I'm not sure.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
I guess I missed it because I where I was
in college.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
I guess it was.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
I don't know how I missed it, but I this
is my first time seeing it. I really like the
animation Bradbury can do no wrong. But I don't know
if it was my headspace or what was happening, but
I wanted to like it more than I did, and
it has a certain kind of just freezy flow where
for me, I didn't find myself attached to any one sequence.

(03:47):
It just kind of goes and I don't know, Like
I said, it's weird. It's weird to me because the
animation looks great. There's nothing wrong with this film at
all as far, and it sounds like it close to
the book. I haven't read the book, so maybe I
don't know if that would have helped. I just didn't
have time this week. It was one of those things
I kind of wanted to do. So I like it

(04:09):
and I like what it was trying to do, but
for some reason it didn't grab me in the ways
that I had expected, and that kind of bummed me
out because it's I like it.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
It's like some I've talked about it.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
Sometimes when something does that, it's like if you have
the sandwich that sounds great and there's like some ingredient
and you can't figure out why your sandwich doesn't taste
as good as you want it. To yeah, and it
kind of was that for me. But that said, I
like what it's trying to do, and I think it's
really interesting. And the fact that they were putting this
out in ninety three, like full length, you know, ninety

(04:43):
minute animated show, that's pretty awesome. So I want to
you know, I'm hoping that as we talk it out,
like I'll kind of dig a little bit more. It's
definitely worth another watch for me because I'm hoping it's
just my brain was in a weird place and absolutely.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Okay, well that's a good way to start us out, Julia,
So what about you.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
I really liked it. I thought it was just beautiful artistically,
like the art of it is gorgeous. I like, yeah,
I liked the characters. I thought it was an interesting story.
I I like that that the villain Mount Trout is.
I found myself wondering the whole time, and I'm eager
to talk about it. Is he the devil? Is he death?

(05:26):
Is he a vampire?

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Like?

Speaker 2 (05:27):
What is he? But it was that was really interesting,
really interesting, your creative villain. I have not I know
you've read the book. I have not read the Ray
Bradberry story. So I don't. You can talk if you
to the extent that you guys recall and I think
Drew you said you read it last year. You guys
can talk about, you know, kind of how it compares.
But anyway, but I'm I loved it, thank you very much?

Speaker 1 (05:50):
True? What about you? So?

Speaker 3 (05:53):
I think that this is a very faithful adaptation, of course,
because it's written the screenplay is written by Ray Bradberry himself.
I really really really like the book, and I like
the movie a lot too. The movies sort of a
condensed version of the book, and I think it's an

(06:16):
excellent you know, we've talked about this periodically. I think
this is an excellent example of sort of gateway horror
fiction and that it's just scary enough and just dark
enough that it's not it's not saccharine, you know, like

(06:38):
as you watch a lot of Halloween stuff that is
intended for kids, and they've completely rubbed all the edges off.
This is not like that. Like this, this doesn't talk
down the kids, and it's it's it's a good intro
to the genre, I think for kids. And that's probably
one of my favorite things about it. The certain things

(06:59):
about it that don't work for me. Like I almost
hate saying this because I love that he was involved
with the movie, but I ray Bradberry's own narration of
it really like, yeah, I think they maybe should have
had Nimoy do the narration, Like you can tell that
Bradberry is not a professional voiceover guy, and his to me,

(07:24):
his narration is just a bit flat, you know, like
you know, the comparative, like like you know, there's been
there's audiobooks where Stephen King reads his own work and
King just puts a lot of gusto into it, Like
I don't feel like that that's the same here. But
other than that, like I think, you know, for a
TV movie, this looks really really good. And as a

(07:49):
Halloween guy, I love all the historical context. Like I've seen,
you know, comments from people online saying that they never
thought that deeply about the roots of Halloween and until
seeing this movie. And that's the reality of the thing.
As great as the book is, a movie is going

(08:10):
to ultimately reach a lot more people than than a
book does, unfortunately, And I think that this has people
thinking a little differently about what Halloween is about instead
of just a shallow, you know, commercial The shallow commercial
end of it, you know, I I think I think

(08:32):
that's important. I'm glad that this exists. It is kind
of a shame that it sort of gets overshadowed by other,
you know, other stuff. You know, like you know that
this isn't really regularly in the mix of people talking about,
you know, Halloween movies for kids the same way.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
Yeah, Like I said that to Jason, I'm like, why
is this not in the regular rotation, beaufl.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
No, It's it's it's a great it's a great flick
and in many respects, you know, it really fits neatly
into that sort of kids on bikes genre that like
Stranger and It and all that.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Does cosmic Christmas as well.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah yeah, and you know, so you think that this
would be more in the conversation with stuff like that,
but it's it's it's not, And I think that that's
kind of a crime.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
You know, who knows why that could be. I mean
that that go ahead, Tony.

Speaker 4 (09:28):
I think it's distribution, Like I mean the fact that
I mean, I'm deep into this and I had no
idea about this thing, like how I don't know how
that happened. But if I don't know about it. I'm
been an animator and I love Halloween, Like there's there's
got to be something with that, right. I also think
I can't know everything, but like, no, you're right, Yeah,

(09:49):
that's weird. That's weird to me that I haven't I
haven't heard even friends, good friends of mine go oh man,
well I'm going to fire up and the kids are around,
I'm going to fire up Halloween Tree.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
It went again, like I ever heard that.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
I also think because it's a Ray Bradberry thing, I
think it sort of gets overshadowed by the more famous
something Wicked this Way comes, which is.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
Also very difficult to find.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
It's now on Disney Plus.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
But I mean you say that, but like you know,
Spielberg and Stephen King and all this like stuff. People
don't care. There's not They're not limiting, you know, to
like work by somebody. You know, so you're gonna watch
science fiction, You're not like, well there's the ones Steven
Spielberg thing.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
All right.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
My theory is so and and we should talk about
the Actually that was my first topic that I wrote
down was the origins of this special, like why didn't
we know it? And so my theory is the Great
Halloween specials to the extent that there are that many
and there are not that many, go back to the
dates of the Great Christmas specials, which is the typically

(10:58):
like the sixties. So stuff that comes around on TV
in the nineties that resonates heavily with people was usually
in rotation on Disney Channel. It's usually live action movies.
So there's a lot of like family live action movie
stuff going around there. But this came out on network
television in nineteen ninety three, and I think a lot
of us just missed it, and so you know, but

(11:21):
let me tell you how this came about. Interestingly enough,
and Nerdicst wrote about this. Bradbury and Chuck Jones corresponded
that they didn't like the Charlie Brown Halloween Special because
they felt like they felt like it was, which is
funny given the Charlie Brown stories, is that it was

(11:44):
too commercial, that it didn't discuss the origins of Halloween,
and you kind of get the impression. It was more like,
wouldn't it be great if there was a special on
TV that did teach the origins of Halloween? In the
same sense that that Schultz really wanted to have his
Christmas special teach the origins of Christmas, and so that

(12:07):
was what they wanted to do. So that's nineteen sixty seven,
right or whatever it was when the Halloween Special came out,
Charlie Brown, and it took them like, what is that
thirty years to get or you know, twenty five anyway
to get this thing on the air. But yeah, what

(12:31):
I thought about most, you know, in terms of getting
this on the air, is you can always get away
with stuff like on a sitcom, you know, but if
you look at g rated material on TV, they usually
don't mention death. The idea of bodies is not really mentioned.
So the notion that a mummy is a mummy because

(12:51):
it's an embalmed person who is on display around living
people is not really dwelled on a great deal. The
fact that Frankenstein is put together out of out of
other people is not you know, it is often kept
kind of it's sublimated so that kids don't really think
about the meaning of all these things. This is a
special that's all about that. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Yeah, I think witches too, Like I think the fact
that it goes into kind of witchcraft and it's not
it's not saying that it doesn't exists, not saying that
it's bad. It's just kind of like. And that's another thing,
is what here's whitch isn't I think that probably has
something to do with it as well.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
It's it is a rougher rough isn't the word. It's
a more challenging work than like than like the Charlie
Brown Halloween special. You know, this is this is which
I know is called The Great Pumpkin Charlie.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
But anyway, uh, you know something else that I was
thinking about is this came out the same year as
Nightmare Before Christmas, and that's a flashier looking Oh yeah, look,
it's a movie I like, Uh, although I always come
down on the side that that's actually more of a
Christmas movie ultimately, but you know, it is a more stylized,

(14:05):
you know, with a with bigger name people attached to it,
and you know, maybe this was also somewhat overshadowed by
by that in nineteen ninety three. I think everything you
are saying is in fact correct, though, that this is
because it deals deals so directly with both death and

(14:27):
you know, frankly, they don't shy away from the idea
of women being persecuted and you know, things like that,
like you.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Know they talk about it. Yeah, yeah, like it.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
There there is a lot more like I hate you know,
not that there's anything wrong with this adaptation necessarily, but
I did does kind of make me wonder if this
should be readapted now and if it would be more
accepted because like, this is the sort of stuff that
I think of as a parent that I want. I

(15:00):
want my child to have the historical context of I
don't I don't want them to just think that Halloween
is about candy and you know, you know, rubber witch
masks and things like that. Like I want them to
know the historical context of everything, you know, And I
know more people probably feel that way maybe now than

(15:23):
they did perhaps in nineteen ninety three.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Well, and in fact, in a second, I'm gonna want
to ask you guys about how Halloween has changed in
our memory. But yeah, that lesson, I agree, there's definitely
space for that lesson. I have heard that there might
be a new adaptation happening, but the article that I
found on it was already five years old, so you know,

(15:47):
I so it's anybody's guess whether that will will actually
happen or not. You know, stuff gets optioned, stuff gets
stuff gets optioned and picked up, and somebody buys a
script they're excited about and then things, all things fall apart.
But I so I agree. So it might so one
reason why the movie is not and we shouldn't spend

(16:08):
all this time arguing about whether people actually remember a
movie that we're talking about. But one reason might be
that it's a little darker than most of the stuff
on TV, like a Garfield Halloween special is not gonna
it's not gonna go this deep typically there is. It's
exactly what Leonard Nimoy's character talks about in here. Leonard
Nimoy plays a guy called Mound Shroud, who is you know,

(16:31):
is the dweller in this great haunted house in the
in these kids neighborhood, and he immediately starts preaching to
them about how they don't understand the meaning of these
these sort of sigils that they carry when they're dressed
up as a gargoyle or a witch or or or
what have you. And that's to some extent that is
Bradbury talking straight to us and kind of complaining, kind

(16:54):
of polemicing that that you know, we kids today just
don't understand what all this stuff means. And maybe maybe
we never did.

Speaker 4 (17:03):
Maybe I would have really had a he would have
been really bummed if he if one of the kids
had had like one of the seventies things. It's like,
you know, welcome Back Codder and it's a picture of
Welcome Back Codder and maybe one of the crew is
like classic classic pastic poncho and mask, like you don't
even know anything, you know, up, why.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
Do you dress up like vity Barbarino? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (17:31):
Or no?

Speaker 4 (17:32):
Because no, but the costume would have been why are
you dressed up as Welcome Back Codder?

Speaker 1 (17:37):
The show? Right, because that's how it worked with those
those constants.

Speaker 4 (17:42):
So like that these kids are dressed you know, it's
it's it's a it's cool because it's like, oh, you're
a mummy, you're a monster, you're uh, you know, all.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
The different costumes.

Speaker 4 (17:52):
It works, It works really well, and you know, I
do really like that, like to mirror what you're saying,
Like the interesting part that the through line of death
and the uncertainty of death is fascinating as well as
as breezy as I thought it was. Again just because
that was my first viewing. I do really enjoy that

(18:14):
it's a history of Halloween of sorts. Yeah, well there
aren't that many. There aren't that many things that do that.
I thought that was really cool.

Speaker 3 (18:22):
Talking about the kids costumes, I just want to point
out my favorite thing in about the kids costumes is
that the girl Jenny for her Witch costumes, she she
fashions a room onto a light. It's so clever and
I you know, it does make me think of something

(18:44):
that maybe somebody would really have done back.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
In the day.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
But I uh, I don't know. I just love I
just love that. And yeah that none of them are
you know, done up as like pop culture characters. There's
not like Batman. No one's been like a specific you know,
like no one's they're they're not Frankenstein.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
They're they're a monster. There is a gargle.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
I mean the most the most I guess direct thing
would be the Mummy, but I mean it's the Mummy's
kind of generic in a way.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah he's not the Mummy. He's a mummy.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah, yeah, he's not in hotel. But uh, you know,
so that you know, and that's like a very brad
Bury thing because like this even though this came out
in nineteen ninety three, it does kind of have an
any time, any play place kind of vibe to it.

(19:38):
You know, it could be now, it could be you know,
the past, it could be the president. Like he doesn't
really set it in anything.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Yeah, let's talk about where Halloween was then. But first
I just want to mention the plot of this film
is fairly simple to start out, which is the neighborhood kids,
all of whom you know, it's a it's a it's
a quaint little town, you know, in the Midwest, made
up of where you can always see trees and you

(20:05):
can always see houses, like he describes basically the perfect
American town. And in this town, these these kids are
going trick or treating, but their heroic friend Pip is
not with them, and they rushed to his house to
figure out why he hasn't met up with them, and
he's being rushed to the hospital because he's.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Got but he took time out to write them a note.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
That's what we're going on.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
I think that actually makes perfect sense that.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
You'd be like, and he's a great kid.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
I can't go to the hospital. My friends are coming over.
It's like Okay, I'll write them a note at least.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Yeah, And he holds Halloween in his heart the way
that Scrooge eventually learns to hold Christmas. He's really serious
about it. And the rest of the film, and this
movie brought tears to my eyes. Honestly, it was very
effective for me. The rest of this film, they are
as they chase through and learn the history of Halloween.

(21:02):
They are chasing Pip's ghost from place to place, so
Pip is teetering on the edge of death and they
are seeing a ghost of him the whole time, and.

Speaker 2 (21:12):
They don't know. They don't know what's a ghost, although
one of them does say he can see through him.
And they also and we don't know as an audience
whether he's actually dead or alive. At this point, we.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
Don't know if he's dead or alive, but we know
he's a ghost. Like like any any adult watching it, it's.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Like, well, thats no, I know. But that's what I'm
saying is we don't know if he's dead or if
it's like, you know, just near death whatever.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Yeah, that's that's exactly right. So anyway that that tease
it up, that's that's what's going on. But I had
a question before we get into the various versions of
Halloween that they that they visit, Let's start with the
Halloween that they inhabit, which is, you know, putting on
these homemade costumes and trick or treating. So Bradbury is

(21:55):
kind of recording his vision of, you know, the model Halloween.
Has Halloween changed, I'd really liked it, And I don't
mean since historic time, since Irish Jack o' Lantern's weed.
I mean, has Halloween changed since the fifties, Like, is
there any significant difference in how that all happens? And
you were talking a little bit about this before then,

(22:17):
but we didn't ask this actual question this way. So, Drew,
you're kind of the biggest Halloween scholar I know, So
what do you think? I mean?

Speaker 3 (22:25):
I think in the way that Halloween has changed since
nineteen ninety three doesn't affect what's going on much in
this movie. Is that I think adults are much more
involved with celebrating Halloween than they were perhaps were in

(22:46):
the nineties. I think between the nineteen fifties and the
nineteen nineties there wasn't a huge significant change other than
you know, the Satanic panic happened in the eighties, and
because of that, there was all of this we'll say
urban legends. Urban legends are the right way to describe this.

(23:09):
About people putting drugs or razor blades into candy. You know,
a lot of it was was largely unwarranted and because
of this, you know, the Halloween that they inhabit, although
they don't get into it in the movie, would have
been something of you know, you gather up all your

(23:29):
candy and then when you go home, you know, the
next thing would be your parents checking the candy to
make sure that there's there's nothing in it. Because that's
that's what was going on.

Speaker 1 (23:41):
That was how I went in the in the seventies
and eighties. Yeah. Yeah, And.

Speaker 3 (23:48):
You know, obviously that's not something that comes up in
the movie because this is an idyllic town where no
one would ever consider poisoning a defenseless I mean.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
The crazy thing is that was one of those things
that people heard about. It was very joke, so vanishingly
rare that the that the examples of it are usually
exceptions and they make news. I mean, so it's so
that's the crazy ones.

Speaker 4 (24:14):
Just food like it was this whole like watch out
if you get temporary tattoos.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
They could have LSD because you.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
Know, yeah, but drug dealers love to do give out
drugs instead of self free. Yeah, they really enjoy not
making money off of drugs. That's really a thing that
they do.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
So there there was, you know, an idea that continues
to this day. And this is something that I was
talking about beforehand, is that, oh, Halloween is in decline.
Halloween is in decline, you know, because of all the
people who have ruined the innocence of the holiday. Halloween

(24:51):
is less popular than it used to be. And that
is actually blatantly bullshit.

Speaker 4 (24:57):
I mean, how many Spirit Halloween stores do you have?

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, for Halloween. Halloween season is actually the second most
important retail season. Take it as someone who makes a
lot of their income between the months of August and October,
and it's you know, it's big business for candy companies.

(25:21):
It's big business for all these companies that make costumes.
You know, there's the stuff like spirit, there are haunted
houses obviously, and nowadays because adults have gotten into the action,
there is you know, practically a pocket pocket industry of
costume parties and raves for grown ups.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
So all that if you're in a neighborhood like ours,
all the lawn decreps like they're getting more and more
elaborate with the giant skeletons and the lifelike you know,
Michael Myers's or whatever.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
To the point that there's real shows about that, right,
and then.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
Every year there's another there's a couple three more horror
movies that come out at Halloween times.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Halloween Halloween is is, you know, more popular than it
ever has been, and it only will continue to be.
So that's that's a right wing smoke show.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
I don't even know if it's not. I think that
it's possible that as we get older, any given American.
I don't know about the rest of the country, but
any given American, as we get over, we're exposed to
all of these things that swirl around us all the time,
and so we look at them and we go, my gosh,
the world has changed from when I was young. And
it's because the world around you has changed, because of

(26:38):
course it has. You're living in a different place. Probably
you're going to different places, you know, so you know, basically,
what do you want. You're not going to nightclubs anymore?
You're going to like family restaurants, and you look around
and go, how come nobody like nobody dances anymore. Well,
because you're at an Applebee's, Like you know, you are
not in the world that you were in before, you think,

(27:00):
and so you end up because we all think we're
the center of the universe. We write these these pieces,
these things, pieces in our head about you know, when
I was young, everybody danced, and all it is is that, no,
you're just not young anymore. Halloween's still there, and the.

Speaker 3 (27:13):
Traditions of Halloween, the major traditions are still largely in place.
There is some variations because of some of the fear
and cultural outbreak. There is some stuff that are more commons,
like schools and churches doing trick or treat that is

(27:35):
considered safe, you know, And I well, I mean that's
something I you know, but I hear you, I don't,
don't you know. People still carve jack o lanterns, people
still dress up in costumes, people still eat candy, you know,

(27:56):
like it's it's you know, like but here's the other
thing that is the flip side about that, And this
cuts right into the heart of what this movie is about.
Halloween is also about the evolution of tradition, you know,
because what Halloween is and what we think of as
Halloween is all these things from other cultures that were

(28:18):
then brought over to America and adapted in America, and
now we have exported, you know, our version back out
to the world. Yes, And so you know, which again
goes right into what this movie is about, because it's
you know, talking about how all these these things you know,

(28:40):
were you know, about how these kids are not aware
of you know, what a mummy really is, what a
witch really is, why you're dressing up in a costume,
you know, it's, it's, it's and and all that stuff
is really important and why it's important and why it's
important ultimately to talk about death too. So you know,

(29:03):
I'm digressing at this point.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
But no, no, I think that I think that's really good.
I I actually I always kind of enjoy that there's
kind of an advent calendar of our lives, and there's
always doors that you'll look behind and you can see
more things in them. And Halloween is one of those things.
And Christmas trees is there another one of those things,

(29:25):
and the big Red Santa is another one of those things,
and I like, in my mind diving deep and going, oh,
interesting Coca Cola and interesting Saint Nicholas and all this,
and then diving back up and also sometimes and with Halloween,
the same same thing, and also sometimes returning to the
sort of the ignorance of it and taking it at

(29:45):
face value. It can be it can be fun, like
forgetting all about it and then rediscovering it again. I gosh, okay,
so the but Mound Shroud believe. And so by the way,
that what the the point of all of that was?
I sort of like that the American Halloween tradition is
a tradition that gets exported. In other words, our tradition

(30:09):
of our jack lanterns and our particular way of trigger
treating all that stuff is as exportable, as much a
part of the dialogue as everything else that they discussed
in this. So anyway, Mount Troud does a weird deal
with them, And this is a part of the plot
that doesn't really make so much sense, and you're just

(30:30):
going with it, which is and if somebody can explain
it to me better, great, But it is they are chasing
the ghost of Pip as he moves kind of essentially
through the metaphor of the Halloween Tree, which is a
great metaphorical tree of a million jack lanterns.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Right, and there's a jackue lantern that goes that goes
with Pip, like it's Pip's face, and it's presumably kind
of meant to hold his soul. So that's why I'm asking.
That's why I started out by asking, what is Mount Trout?
Is he?

Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh, he's death. He's as sure as heck death as
anybody's ever dead. He is death, like like Robert Redford
is death in the Twilight Zone. Spoiler.

Speaker 3 (31:12):
Yeah, I think he's the angel of Death.

Speaker 4 (31:14):
That In the Wikipedia article they list his whole name
carapas Clavical Mount Trout and the link is Personifications of Death.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yes, Oh wow, that's what he looks.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
He looks like the Wicked Witch of the West and
Dracula had a kid together.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
He looks like Dracula in some of the early uh,
the early paperback copies of of Dracula and but at
the end spoilers uh when he trades for Pip's soul
by each of them offering up a year off their lives.
By the way, was there ever a more amazing, tear

(31:53):
jerking Ray Bradbury at his best than that, then children
offering up a year off the end of their lives,
a gamble that they can have no understanding of to
save their friend. You know, Bradbury is just as much
a sap as Stephen King is basically where this whole
notion live.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
But it's also but it's also dark in a way
because as you point out, they don't have any conception
of how it's valuable that year might be to them
when they're older.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
That's the beauty, that's that's what Bradbury is playing with.
I mean, and he gives Mount Troud some of the
same lines that he gave the guy, and something wicked
this way comes, you know, about the meaning of time
that that immortal beings have a pretty good business.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
His business card actually reads time manager.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
Time manager. Yeah, isn't that great?

Speaker 3 (32:46):
And I love the idea of death as a time traveler.
I think that that's I don't know, like I like
this theatrical, almost vaudevillian version of you know, because like
in the way he uses the kids, you know, like

(33:09):
he's he's sort of you know, like Julia called him
a villain, but he's sort of morally ambiguous in a way,
but he definitely tricks the kids. He knows that they
can find their friend, and he kind of tricks tricks
them into being his hunting dogs for him. And that's
so cool to.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Thank you for explaining that to me, that that's actually
a really good way of explaining the plot.

Speaker 4 (33:34):
Also that whole time manager thing, Like I tell people
all the time, time's the commodity you can never get back,
and so when people waste your time, they're kind of
the worst thieves possible, like being jerks in ways that
they don't maybe even comprehend. But if they do it
more than once. I mean I wrote a song Temporal
Vampires about just that. That was, oh my god, it's

(33:58):
not like I really I really hate when people are
flip it with your time. Yeah, And I feel more
strongly as I grow older, because you can make you
can sell that, you can make money different ways, but
you can never in our present non time travel society,
you can never get that back. And uh, I think

(34:19):
that's also interesting that death would would play and you
know they play on that at the end too. That's
what makes that so tear jerkery. Yeah, ye had another
kind of interesting, you know, cool thing that differentiates this
movie from other Halloween, especially how animated fair.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
That's absolutely right that there can be a tier jerky
part of it. He's he's playing in an area that
always works for me. You know, I don't know if
it works for everybody, But I love a story where
somebody bargains with death and wins, like I love it.
There's one that, uh, there's there's one that Serling did
in the Twilight Zone. What was called the Deal of

(34:59):
the Century. I can't I remember where where you have
a traveling salesman who well he's a sidewalk salesman who
basically has to keep Death at bay by selling stuff
all night long so that he can distract death long
enough for the sun to come up. And that's the
bargain that you made. But to save somebody, which is
just like the there's an O Henry story like that.

(35:20):
There's it's a motif that our stories come back to
over and over that death is kind of a games
player who will who will bargain with you and will
let you win. Death doesn't lie? Isn't that crazy? I mean,
he'll he'll fool you. But but Ultimately, if he promises
to play a game and he loses, you you win,
you know you.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
And that's the show that we saw like last year
the year before where the guy basically sold his kids'
lives before they were born.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
What was that?

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Oh my goodness, I want the it's you know, same
the black mask guy with the I'll look it up,
I'll find it.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
I don't know. I gosh, I'm trying to when you
say the black mask.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
About the black black mask, black mass.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Oh no, I have no idea, Flanagan. But story that
was the House of Usher.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah was it where he's got the kids, where his
kids are the ones or the like he's he's kind
of sold them off. They're sold off their souls before
they were born. That was at the house.

Speaker 1 (36:27):
To be honest, that is not familiar to me.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
So I'll figure i'll find it. Well while you're talking.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah for sure. Okay. So the funny thing is, Drew,
when I think about the book, I only remember Mexico.
I don't remember the rest, which is weird. But what
are some of the places that they go? Like they travel? Uh,
because the.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Ancient Egypt they go, yeah, and go to they go
to Ireland, they go to France and witness the construction
of Notre Dame. I kind of so the I am

(37:12):
glad that it is there for context, but as a
as as a Hallow Halloween scholar almost sounds cac to
say that I'm a loud but as a Halloween scholar,
I do sort of wrinkle my nose at the Feast
of Ghosts sequence because while that is a thing and

(37:35):
it is very similar seeming to cultural festivals that did
influence Halloween, there isn't very much evidence that it actually
was an influence on what we think of I mean,

(37:56):
it's it's kind of hard to like, you know, Halloween
is kind of a morphous in some way, so it's
kind of hard to nail that down. But you know,
you know, most people wouldn't put that into the mix
right there.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
There wasn't a big enough saying it's kind of a stretch.

Speaker 3 (38:17):
It is a bit of a stretch. It's it's cool
that is in there, and it is interesting to point
out the people that like, look, death festivals like this
have existed in a lot of different cultures, which is
probably what brad Berry was trying to say. But it
is a bit of a mislead to say that it

(38:40):
is one of the things that directly influenced Halloween.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
I think he's so, I agree with you. I think
he's kind of saying that it's in the dna of Halloween,
and that's fair. Yeah, it's just in the same way
that the Day of the Dead and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
Well, Day of the Dead is more direct though, because
Day of the Dead was in the americause it is
celebrated deer in the hallow Tide. It is more of
a direct influence on what we think of as Halloween
than than even though it is distinct from Halloween, it

(39:17):
is fair to say that it is a influence on Halloween,
and in a way that is more easily easily archaeologically
and sociologically able to be like, Okay, here's how these
two things you know were influential.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
But you know, no, you're right, that's yeah. Yeah, by
the way, how cool, Julia, go.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Ahead, Well, no, I was gonna say a couple of things.
One is that, yeah, I think of the Dead being
much more like cultural and almost religious than than like
than how we see Halloween really, But also, yes, you're right, Jason,
it is with House of followed the House of Bushure,
Roder Gusher and Madeline strike a bargain to ensure wealth
and success, and the catches that his bloodline is doomed,

(40:07):
so all of his kids die before him. That's what
made me think of That's what it made me think of,
the idea that you know, you don't know what you're
giving up when you give it up, and then it's like,
because he gave it up before they were, that's the.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Last devil's bargain. That's that's like the story of all
all the devil's bargains go that way. That's the one
thing I wanted to point out. Also, the very bread
the same way that we can point it like stuff
and say, oh, that's a Stephen King thing when he's
doing his thing. Bradbury is added again, Tony, I I
know that you must have. Like see when they go

(40:40):
to the they have like the zoo posters and like
the lion and and all that stuff, and they start
pulling down the posters to create a kite like it's
so something wicked like it.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
It's really cool the kite they come up with, how
they visualize that is really neat to you. Yes, there's
there's a lot of really great animation flourishes. Uh, and
this has done really really well. The animation team really
knocked it out of the park. It also reminded me
it's different, but the flow of the motion also reminded

(41:11):
me of Creep Show two. The way they move, the
way that they move is very much like how I
think Creep Show two done on a probably slightly smaller budget.
As an animator, I can see kind of where that
the seams are in there, but I don't know if
any of the animators.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Worked on both. But there is a there's.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
A quality to how the kids move, especially that has
a really similar thing.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
And I thought that was kind of cool that that
is really neat. I that design of the kite, I
forgot about that. That's a good point because it it
stares it like it has eyes that are from different posters,
but the whole kite is a face. Yeah, that was
just that was then the.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Kids the tail, which is crazy.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (41:59):
I I also liked the kind of different incarnations of
Pitt throughout, Like in each time period there's something slightly
different or slightly changed. I mean, one of these cat
but like you know, that's a drastic one. But I
liked that his transition as they are chasing him is
different as well, which kind of ties it to the timelines.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
I thought that was a really nice touch. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Have you even mentioned the timelines that the which ones
they go through and everything.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yes, yeah, yeah, and you know, especially including ancient Egypt
and Andrew.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Egypt Stonehenge, Paris, which specifically Notre Dame and Mexico. And
I love that they build Notre Dame while they're there,
like they're just building it as they go along as
a sanctuary that he can't enter, which is why I
was like, is he death or is he a demon?
Because he can't enter its sanctuary for them. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. That's that's
that's a really interesting question. But in a way, he's
playing a game the whole time there. He's going to
stay always just a little bit away, and as Drew
pointed out, like a Nazi in a Raiders of a
Lot of Stark movie. He's basically letting them search for
the treasure, which is Pip we're trying to catch because

(43:18):
he wants Pip's soul, so in along the way they're learning.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
I don't even know that he wants Pip Soul. On
a personal level, I think for him this is his job.
I think I think the personal thing is that he
is amused by these kids who are so in the
Halloween but don't really know anything about it. Like, I
think that's ultimately why he he lets them bargain for

(43:44):
Pip Soul because deep down he kind of likes them.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Yes, and for for Death. This is a transitional period
because those traditionally the walls are so thin, and it
may be even why he gets a chance to come
out and you know, play a game with kids. Yeah,
because at this point is really you know, the that's
that's how the tie ins of Halloween. We could imagine

(44:12):
that death. This is kind of this is Death's holiday
in a way, it's also his his most likely point
of interacting with actual with people, as those walls are.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Well, and because of the way Halloween is, you know,
because it's distinctly taking stuff that's childish and whimsical but
also tying it to things of horror and death, like
you know, honestly like the way death he's not physically attractive,

(44:44):
but it does somewhat remind like, Okay, this guy's problematic
as hell now, but it does sort of remind me
of the way Neil Game in portrays death in Sandman
is ultimately, you know, someone who is kind of charming,
and you know, again there's this sense of whimsy about him,

(45:05):
the fact that he is dressed almost like a theatrical vampire,
and you know, he kind of looks like a stage
magician or whatever.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
I absolutely love the voice Leonardy Mooy's voice for him.
He doesn't sound anything like how Leonard Neymore sounds like
a Spock or anything else. It's very special voice. I
just loved it was.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
And how easy could it have been for him to
just show up and and just talk, because you know,
Leonard Nimoy had a great speaking voice. He could have
just but like the fact that he actually thought out
like what this character should sound like is terrific.

Speaker 4 (45:45):
It's not even his in search of voice, which is
what we kind of think of, is kind of, you know,
closer to Spock in a way.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Yes, he's you know, he's.

Speaker 4 (45:54):
Voice acting, he's he's bringing life to this character. And
I totally agree with you.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
By the way, do I apologize to anybody who wishes
we stayed on track, but do you remember Learn Nimoy's
show called I think it was called Lights Camera Action
that he did in the eighties that was about the
making of movies. I somewhat remember it. I can't remember
Nickelodeon or or one of those. But what was great

(46:21):
about it was, you know, it was aimed at kids,
but he would spend time on sets and show how
different sequences were filmed, and you kind of got an
idea of the monotony, but also the excitement of creating something.
You know. For instance, they showed a scene where Roger
Moore is making octopusy and so Roger Moore James Bond,

(46:42):
becomes aware that there's somebody above him about to drop
a saw on him because a drop of sweat hits
his shirt. Well, anytime they have to reshoot that, Roger
Moore has to get a new shirt, which the pain
in the ass because actors got to get up, the
costumer has got to come out, rip off the one shirt,
put on the next, reset, go again. But that was
really as a kid, that was really cool watching just

(47:04):
how how difficult and detailed that that work was. Anyway,
HiT's Camera Action that was a great show and it
has completely been wiped off the map. That doesn't it
doesn't exist anymore. So I now return us to our
regularly scheduled program. Okay, so we talked about the various
Halloweens that they go to. I want to talk a

(47:25):
little bit about the sacrifice h so each of them. Well,
I mean, I get I guess we are you know what,
I'm going to edit this out because we already talked
about that. So while I'm paused, what should we talk
about next?

Speaker 3 (47:37):
I mean, I think if you wanted to break it
down sequence by sequence, we could go more into the
different timelines.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, I mean, I think it'd be better just to
just to pull out if there's one, if there's any
that are that are really exciting to you to to mention.
But I don't, I don't think.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
I mean, I think we've already kind of touched on.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
It's not timelines than like the origins of each of
the costumes or whatever, if you have anything about that.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Yeah, okay, Yeah, we could talk about what each what
each one is, and how they how they hit upon it. Yeah,
that's a good Okay, Drew sounds like we'll do that
after all. But we take it from the perspective of
the costumes. Okay, all right, so the kids themselves are
dressed up each as at least in Bradbury's telling, a
version of the spirit of Halloween in a sense like

(48:28):
something that is just regular in Halloween. So Jenny, the
character of Jenny, is dressed as a witch. What are
they like? Please forgive me, I'm trying to remember. It
is the witch? Why we go to Stonehenge? I can't.
I can't remember.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
Well, they're talking. That's their way of linking into Slowyn.
That's their way of talking about the Celts, and it's
also their way about eventually they loop around the talking
about witch hunts and things like that. So he also
gets into the origin of the word witch and how
you know, yeah, you know, tied to the word.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Wit and wisdom.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
Yeah, it just basically means someone with knowledge and how
we've started to demonize. You know, that's something we could
really maybe stand to learn now, is that, you know,
knowledge can be a power that people resent.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
But I do think that that's why this has not
entered the regular rotation of Halloween, because I think I
think that that the you know, the not even right wing,
but just the more the more conservative people will be like,
we don't want our kids thinking that, you know what
I mean that that's that witches are wise.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
You know, well it might be just a little bit
too complicated. And this is the kind of thing that Bradbury,
who is a very nice man, still got super pissed
off about and wrote about a lot. Is that he
a lot of times we we avoid things that are
too complic kid, you know, and including complicated feelings.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
Even growing up, like living through Satanic panic was one thing,
but also experiencing that like why do you got to
use such big words like I don't know, I didn't
think of them as big words. But obviously this is
a problem for you. You know, I think it makes
you angry, you know, like.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
What I think that he is right? You know that
we are too. I mean, you know, like you know,
this kid's dressed up as the Mummy, you know, like
he only knows the Mummy from you know, movies likely
and you know, maybe comic books, and he actually makes

(50:42):
this kid think that, you know, a mummy's about think
on how a mummy is you know, embalmed, you know,
like it's it's a it's a form of death ritual
and then you know, later on with the kid with
the monster, you know, like why do we you know?
What is?

Speaker 1 (50:57):
What is? You know, you know, a.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Monster can be something to repel, but it also is
something to protect. And that's that's a complicated idea, you know,
because the monster can be two things. A gargoyle can
be two things. And I you know, again as a parent,
now like that is the sort of thing that I
want my child to have an understanding of, that things

(51:23):
can have more than one meaning. And you know, and
I think that that is again very much tied into
the idea of a Halloween costume, like you are temporarily
taking on the shape of something else, Like Halloween is
the night where we can all be something else for

(51:44):
a short period of time. And you know, people put
either not much thought into a Halloween costume where they
put a lot of thought into it, but it's something
that has this duality to it. And you know, I
I don't know, like I think that there's very much
like all these things that you were saying, why this

(52:08):
has probably not caught on makes me wish that it
was not caught you know, more part of the cultural
landscape because I think that the lessons of this movie
are very important. Once you know.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
What's funny is it reminds me in a way there's
two boys and something wicked this way comes and Bradbury
talks about how the one of them is is just
a little bit too wise for his own good and
a little bit too scary. Even though he's a nice kids,
there's always this feeling underneath that there's something, there's something
deep and scary and it makes him a little a

(52:44):
little bit frightening to the narrator, And I think Bradbury
is that himself. He has this tremendous power and beauty
about his words, but there's something that he is stuck
with that is just a little bit too wise, and
he's aware of how we have a tendency to skirt it.
But I keep coming back to the Garfield Halloween right

(53:06):
where all the edges are rubbed off. There's nothing, you
know what, we're not thinking about this notion of death.
But Halloween is constantly intention because you're supposed to be
having fun and bottom line, death is a tragedy, so
we're constantly grappling with it. That's a and so Bradbury,

(53:27):
it just so happens in this is coming really really
close to making it an uncomfortable thing to think about.
And I think that probably contributes a little bit to
its lostness. But I think the other stuff is probably
true too. There's just a lot of accidents. It's difficult
to make something into our head. Gosh, which of the
other monsters do we need to mention that that we

(53:48):
have not? Where did the skeleton? Did the skeleton? What
did we learn about the skeleton?

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Is because the kid is named Tom skeleton but they
tie it in today of the day, which of course
is a big part of the end of the movie
because the way they offer up all their the years
of their lives is they break apart this sugar skull
and all eat it. And I love that, you know,

(54:18):
I think that that is you know, for again you
have the Halloween thing of partaking of a sweet treat,
but also like showing at least part of where that
tradition came from. But then you also have this extra
layer that they are sacrificing something and you know the

(54:39):
thing you know also the sequence. So one of the
things that is different between this and the book is
you Tom confesses to Pip's spirit that he wishes he
had wished that something might happen to pip Be so
he could be the leader once in a while, and

(55:02):
how he feels responsible for him being in the hospital
because of that. That is a much bigger thing in
the book. It's not outside of the sequence. Not is spent.
Not a lot of time is spent on it. And
I do think that that is probably to the narratives.

(55:25):
It kind of weakens it a little bit in terms
of giving this kid an ARC, because I think that
that's something they probably shouldn't have lost when they were
streamlining the story.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
There's a lot to fit in here. I mean it
it's but because like it is moving, moving, moving, So
it's shocking that they kept it in at all. I mean,
I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm like, you know,
they I'm surprised they didn't. They didn't cut it to
begin with.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
By the way, I also was thinking, you know, depending
on your age, I could imagine the sequence where there's
the mummified relative that they're like, oh, here's the soup.
You know, like that's normal, right, Like like that sequence
of how horrific it is to to you know, the
kid of like, wait, your dead relative is here?

Speaker 1 (56:11):
And you know he's mammified. Oh, that's not what we do.
Like all of that, I'm sure we would resonate differently
depending on when you saw how old everything, because it
is a really it's interesting historically, and then it's also
kind of horrifying. Yeah it was. Yes, I thought that
was really cool. Yeah, that reminds that that's such an
odd well. I mean, you know, it's odd to our

(56:33):
American and our modern world, and that has a lot
to do with a lot of deep stuff with how
we treat death and how we treat bodies, and honestly,
you know, there's just that we should listen to an
episode of American Hysteria about that, because like it's worth
its own deep, deep research and I haven't done it myself,
but for our eyes, the point is that's pretty wild,

(56:57):
and yeah, it's it's very disturbing, and so that would
keep this that alone would keep this from getting a
G rating. I don't even know what this thing is rated,
but but it's you know, G. To get a G
you have to have nothing that's particularly disturbing.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
I think this would at least be a PG if
it were to come out now, which you know, like
I said earlier, it's just scary enough.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
I guess it was on TV, so it doesn't have
to be rated, so so we don't even know.

Speaker 3 (57:32):
But ABC, and then it later aired on Cartoon Network,
so it you know, it's you know, it was clearly
they knew it was geared for. Oh yes, I'm just
saying it's not a G rated special. So so in theory,
you can't you can't screen it next to Garfield. But

(57:52):
I mean, you you know, like, look, you know, my
my little girl is one, and you know I watched
it with her, and I mean, look, she didn't pay
perfect attention to it because her attention span is not
long right now, but she wasn't disturbed by it, you know.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
No, I think you have to be older to be disturbed.

Speaker 3 (58:13):
At the same time, I think, like, you know, someone
between eight and twelve is probably a kind of a
perfect body for this because it's it's it's kind of
that age where you're starting to imagine yourself with a
little bit of freedom and you're you're going off on adventures,
and you know, it is I.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Don't wonder what the purpose of the rating system is.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
Well, I mean the sort of kids that you know,
like you know, fantasize about being goonies or whatever. Like
that's that's the age group of of you know, because
like you know, young young kids are completely beholden to
their parents, but children are like a little bit of freedom.
You know, they're they're but they're still obviously children.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
You know.

Speaker 3 (59:00):
That's that's really the sweet spot of this. And and
I mean, look, you know here, you know, here's the
thing taking a page out of my own thing. You know,
Like often when I'm at comic book conventions, I occasionally
will have a parent come up and they'll say, so,
what age group is this is appropriate for? And I'll say, well,

(59:23):
this is the rating. But you know what I always
tell people is, you know, this is this is what's
in there. You know, your kid, If your kid is
fine with that, I am not going to teach you
how to be parent your kid. So like I think,
if you know, a child would not be disturbed by this,

(59:44):
I think it's fine for that kid to watch it.
But that's just me, Like I think, you know this,
I guess I guess what I'm saying is I kind
of reject the notion of big box parenting. I think
it's good to have label to let you know what
sort of elements are in things. But ultimately, like every

(01:00:06):
kid is different, and every kid's going to have, you know,
a different reaction to things. You know, like I watched
tons of horror movies when I was a kid. I
didn't grow up to be a degenerate. I just well
grew up to be a genre fiction writer. And although
I guess there's some people that might think I'm a degenerate,

(01:00:29):
but you know, it's it's I don't know. I mean again,
if you think your kid would be disturbed by this,
then they probably would be know your own child, But
you know, like I think, I don't know, I think
a lot there are a lot of kids out there
that would be perfectly fine watching this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Well you can handle it, and you can tell from
your own child what And usually we're pretty quick about
just turning something off, like, well we're not. Our children
are growing ass adults now, So let's get our final
thoughts on the Halloween Tree. This again, it's the story

(01:01:06):
is the Halloween Tree, and there's actually a thing in
it called the Halloween Tree, which is an enormous tree
of souls. It's just brilliant. It's just brilliant, What a
wonderful image, so much that Disney.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Tree of jack o' lanterns.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Yes, and Disney has adopted that as a symbol that
shows up in some of their parks where you've got
a Halloween tree, because why wouldn't you build this thing?
Of course you would, and it's amazing that nobody had
doubted that before. You know, we got Christmas trees, you
got a Halloween tree. It's great. So let's get our
closing thoughts. It was Tony Julia Drew and then I'll

(01:01:40):
go Tony, We've we've talked at great length about the
Halloween tree. What are your thoughts about it?

Speaker 4 (01:01:45):
I enjoyed discussing it. Like I said, I think I
need to rewatch it in just maybe a different frame
of mind. The pacing just felt weird to me, and
I don't I don't have a good eye. I feel
bad because I don't have a good way of describing
why it didn't resonate. It felt super breezy in ways.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
That I don't know. I'm with you.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
I wouldn't say it's I think superficial is the wrong word.
I think too harsh of a word. But just the
flow of it I. It just didn't resonate with me
in ways that I wanted it to, because again, the
animation is beautiful, the story is of course top notch.
Radberry is no slouch. You know some of my favorite stuff,
Cass is great. Like again, it's that my analogy of like,

(01:02:30):
why isn't this sandwich my.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
New favorite sandwich?

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
I don't know why. There's something that's there's a spice missing,
and I think that's probably a tony problem and not
this No, that's a fair problem. So I I do
wish I had read Maybe if I had read the novel,
I would have had more context coming in.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
So I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:02:51):
But but none of none of that makes it not enjoyable.
It's just it didn't hit me the way I maybe
maybe I had to. Maybe as I was entering, I
had different expectations. I'm unsure because you know, there's no
money and stuff in it, but definitely I'm going to
rewatch it. And I think you know it's funny earlier too,
when you said, hey, maybe more people should be talking

(01:03:12):
about it, Well, guess what, that's just.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
What we've done. So you know, you get to be
your own, You can.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Be a change, be the change you want to see
exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Great, Thank you, Tony, Julia, you were really moved by this.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
I think, yeah, I thought like I said, I thought
it was really special and I was sad that I
hadn't that it's not part of our you know, annual
just stuff that pops up on broadcast TV for everybody
to watch. But you know, but I kind of get
it given you know, the themes that we've talked about
and how how resistant people are to some of those themes.

(01:03:50):
But it's really beautiful, very well done, and like I said,
great performance by learn Anymore. I think the kids were amazing.
I think that problem Rae Bearberry, he didn't I get
what Tony's saying, is not my favorite thing? Or was
it Tony or Drew that was saying that didn't love it?
I was true, Sorry, yeah, it's so yeah this that

(01:04:11):
that it's kind of but because it's Ray Bradberry, I
felt like it was special. However, if if if it
had not been Ray Bradbury had been like, this is
an odd choice for the reason. So but I uh, yeah,
I think the story is really neat and it was
a fun, little kind of off ramp from our our
Bava thon that we're doing. Since yeah, I didn't have

(01:04:34):
John this week, we decided to do to do a
special Halloween thing, and I'm glad we did that. So
but I think our next week, I think we'll have
another Bava, so I'm excited about that as well.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Wonderful Let's see, did Tony Drew It's Drue go for it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
I really like this adaptation. I think it's good. I
I kind of actually, yeah, maybe by doing this episode,
we will get people to, you know, go check it
out more. And because I think the themes being discussed
here are great, I also hope that, you know, more

(01:05:11):
people will check out the book because I think the
book is really great too. But I think obviously time
is valuable and not everybody has the ability to constantly read.
So this is a worthy adaptation, and I just I
just want more people to revisit it. I think I
think the stuff discussed here are important, and I like

(01:05:32):
that it puts a historical context to Halloween, because I
think Halloween is an important holiday and this gives us why.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
That's wonderful. I really enjoyed discussing this and I'm so
glad that you recommended it drough. Every year we do
at least one Halloween related episode, and it's always interesting
to try to figure out, like what are we going
to do? And and this this was a great choice.
And I had not seen it, and I've maybe never

(01:06:03):
seen it all the way through, so I'm really glad
it did. And again it brought it brought tears to
my eyes. It was a very very touching story to me.
So all right, let's get our endorsements. This is whatever
you've been watching listening to. Want people to be aware
of that maybe they haven't thought about. So let's come
on back to Tony. Tony laid on me. What am

(01:06:25):
I missing?

Speaker 4 (01:06:26):
Let's see Finished Task, which is really good and although
a heavy show, it's not a feel good show at all,
but it's done really well. I noticed Black Phone two
is in theaters. Now, that's that's cool to grab Bagonia. Also,
I talked about it from Fantastic Fest. In fact, they

(01:06:46):
were doing screenings. I noticed they did a screening where
people shave their heads like to get in, and they
were they were actually shaving people's heads as a as
a promo at Fantastic Best as well.

Speaker 5 (01:06:59):
Obviously that's committed yeah, yeah, I mean there are a
few people who just kind of got touch ups, so
that was cool, but some people were all in.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Although somebody did post about the bald screening and they
it's taken too long, so they gave people bald caps.
And then somebody was like, what about that person was
the last person to get their head shape. You think
they felt slighted or I don't know, but that that
movie was cool. I'm trying to think what else I've
been straight on a bunch of other stuff, so I'm

(01:07:32):
still playing through super Robot Wars making That's been my
self medication in tough times has been seventies and eighties
and nineties robots fighting each other on the grid, turn
based action. That's been that's been my like, well, you know,
get my head space right because it plays all the
robot theme songs like writing and a Battler and all

(01:07:54):
of that. But yeah, those are the movies that are
outors that there's stuff to see. I noticed as an
ad Future fan, but I know its Vicious is out
definitely a very uh you know rough like somebody shows
up at this woman's door and her life changes irreparably
h due to supernatural horror. Your mileage may vary on that,

(01:08:17):
but yeah, all those are worth your kind of spook
season time in my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
Wonderful, wonderful. Uh, Julia, what about.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
You did that one task? I think I maybe talked
about that last time we met. I finished the did
finish it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
That's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
I don't know if you wanted to watch it or not,
so I just I just watched it anyway. Really good,
made me cry. I love Mark Ruffalo, He's such a
good actor. I also loved One Battle after Another. Can
remember if we talked about that last time. But that
was such a good film, and it's so different from
what you think. Oh how you watch the trailer and

(01:09:02):
I really enjoyed roof Man. I thought that was fun.
I mean that was really fun, lighthearted.

Speaker 4 (01:09:08):
I think I'm going to see that this week, Julia,
although I did joke like was he bitten by a
radioactive roof and was afraid of roofs? I know, I
know I'll find out when I go see it. Julia said, lighthearted.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
But I just want to point out that it may
often have a light heart, but it is not a comedy.
It is really more of a clime.

Speaker 2 (01:09:30):
It's kind of a rom com I mean, it's it's
like it's like it's a lot like it's a lot
like catch Me if you can. That's how I think
I thought of it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
It is a lot like catch Me.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
It has has comedy elements and has rom camm elements,
but it's but it's kind of a caper or like
kind of movie. Really. Anyways, I really enjoyed it. I
thought it was really creative. So yeah, that's it's wonderful.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Drew, what about you?

Speaker 3 (01:09:53):
Two things? Obviously, the Halloween Man omnibus is out. You
should go to your local bookstore, local comic book shop
see if they have it. If they have it, you
should purchase it. If they don't have it, you should
order it. Digitally speaking, we also just put out an
all new digital comic on Global Comics, so I haven't

(01:10:16):
forgotten about that waying of Halloween Man as well. So
there's kind of two ways you can celebrate our twenty
fifth anniversary right now, which is cool. Also, a not
a horror movie or a fantasy movie or anything, but
definitely a Halloween a good movie to watch. In gearing

(01:10:40):
up for Halloween, I watched Dressing Up Halloween. The story
of ben Cooper, Inc. Which is all about the rise
of the Ben Cooper costume Company and how they came
to kind of dominate Halloween in the latter part of
the twenty century, and you know, like how that all

(01:11:02):
came to be. And I think if you are a
certain age, you're definitely nostalgic for for And I mean
when I say a certain age, I mean this is
the sort of thing that kind of spans generations, honestly,
but uh, you know, I think, uh, you know, people
remember these these plastic, uh and rubber Halloween costumes very

(01:11:27):
very fondly, and you know this, so this this hits
all the right nostalgic chords. And it goes into how
they got certain licenses like Star Wars and and g I.
Joe and the Universal Monsters and you know, all those
things like that. So like, if you're looking for something

(01:11:48):
not scary but definitely fitting with the season, this documentary
will hit the bill and it is on both YouTube
to be an Amazon Prime, so lots of ways to
watch it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
Well that's a great tip, Thank you very much. I'm
definitely gonna watch that. That sounds that sounds.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
Great, Jason, You'll love it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Yeah, no, I am so into those Ben Cooper masks
that is that is awesome. In fact, I wish that
there were, like I wish Todd McFarlane made action figures
of like kids and Ben Cooper masks. I would I
would love to have a little Frankenstein, you know, a
little welcome Back Catter. That would be brilliant. Oh the
mask of like the Batman Batman mask, and then on

(01:12:32):
the front it had a picture of Batman, which was
so weird and meta, and that was just that was
just great. Let's see my endorsement. There's so many stand
by lights camera action with Leonard Nimoy. You can find
the episodes on YouTube and you can learn all about
the making of show movies like nineteen eighty four and

(01:12:53):
Octopusy and Never Sent Ever Again and other things. It's
really cool and it was hosted by Lunard Nimoy just
having a ball explaining how how Hollywood worked. Also, uh,
I recommend wholeheartedly the Bizarreness. That is the nineteen eighty
eight supernatural horror film Death Spa, which is about an

(01:13:16):
evil supernatural force that has taken over a This was
a big, big deal in the late eighties. A health
spa and is killing people with things like shower tiles,
and yeah, I think I watched. I think I watched that.
It's got ken Fory and it's random.

Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
It was like, I don't know, death spos sure, death.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
Spas sure is exactly how I came across it.

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
And I mean, I don't know if I've ever actually
seen that, but I sure as shit. Remember the VHS artwork.

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean yes, yeah, because it has
it has the girl in the like like the Jamie
Lee Curtis perfect. Uh you know Leotard actually has like
a skull face. Yeah, so this is but it has
a it has a hell of a cast. I mean,
it's got ken Fory, it's got Merrit buttrick. So I
don't know, I think, and I think those two things

(01:14:08):
are are unseparable.

Speaker 4 (01:14:10):
Like I think the reason I saw was like, oh,
you know, I never I always saw that cover. I
always saw that box on the shelf, but I didn't
watch it, so why not. It was the kind of
like now's the time I had, you know, some spare time,
and yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
It's definitely something to watch on the way to Halloween.
I so yeah. Directed by Mike Michael fisha. This is
a I just I just really admire somebody's like, hey,
tell me what's in right now? You know what's in
chief spa. Spas are in Ah, give me a horror

(01:14:46):
movie about about a haunted spa. Like all right, yeah,
it's just fantastic. All right. This has been our discussion
of the Halloween tree and despa uh and I'm just
so thankful that you guys would would take the kind
of the time to talk about it. Everybody listening, come
on to the Facebook page and let us know your thoughts.

(01:15:09):
Let us know of any other Halloween.

Speaker 3 (01:15:10):
Special or alternately, if there is a social media that
we should be using that you'd be more likely to
engage to with, let us know, because.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Yeah, I'm curious.

Speaker 3 (01:15:20):
We just broaden our horizons.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
Well, I mean, I'm not using Twitter anymore, but there
are alternatives, and.

Speaker 3 (01:15:28):
There's Blue By, there's Masdon Mammoth, what is it, breads, threads, threads.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
Like I mean the big ones that people are using
right now, of course, Instagram, threads and Blue Sky, but
I don't know which ones are.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
I almost exclusively live on on Instagram because it's right,
really good for promoting comic books.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
But The problem is you have to Every post on
Instagram is an image, so you have to do an
image with a thing. But maybe that's the way to go. Look,
if you all want to get into Instagram, we could
do it. I mean, I'm not against it.

Speaker 3 (01:16:05):
But I'll I'll run a castle forror Instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
Go for it. You go for it, man, I mean honestly,
like like, and you could do it now or you
could make it your New Year's resolution, but we definitely talk.

Speaker 3 (01:16:23):
We'll talk about it online.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
Yeah, all right, thank you everybody, and uh we will
be back super soon with the next thing up is
going to be another Mario Aboba movie, so it's going
to be pretty cool. All right, audios everyone, bye, all right,