November 29, 2024 • 56 mins
Georgiou and Disco Season One
"Star Trek: Section 31" will arrive January 24 of next year, centered around the Mirror Universe version of Philippa Georgiou (Michelle Yeoh). The trio revisit the introduction of both versions of the character, the "Prime" Captain Georgiou and the "Mirror" Terran Emperor, in the first season of "Star Trek: Discovery."
What did we think of both of these characters? What meaning did they have for Michael Burnham? Would we have like to see more or less of each version? How do their first impressions predict what we may see in "Section 31"? What does a Burnham-less Georgiou look like?
Join us as we board the vertical transporters of the USS Shenzhou to revisit season one of Disco and the introduction of the Georgiou character.
"Star Trek: Section 31" will arrive January 24 of next year, centered around the Mirror Universe version of Philippa Georgiou (Michelle Yeoh). The trio revisit the introduction of both versions of the character, the "Prime" Captain Georgiou and the "Mirror" Terran Emperor, in the first season of "Star Trek: Discovery."
What did we think of both of these characters? What meaning did they have for Michael Burnham? Would we have like to see more or less of each version? How do their first impressions predict what we may see in "Section 31"? What does a Burnham-less Georgiou look like?
Join us as we board the vertical transporters of the USS Shenzhou to revisit season one of Disco and the introduction of the Georgiou character.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Nerd Party.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Darren Moser, I'm Philip Gilphis, I'm Daniel Prue and.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is City Alpha three.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello, and welcome to City Alpha three Star Trek podcast.
Here on the Nerd Party, I'm Philip, joined by Daniel
and Darren. So, Daniel, how are you closing up your
Trek Member.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Trek Vember?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Oh my god, I just stop trying to make Trek
Member a thing. It's not a thing, Philip.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We already know the titles of the episode, so yeah,
it's good, except for the fact that you you actually
just mentioned in our chat for all events, the newest
Lower Decks episode came out, and I completely forgot that
we were even in the middle of a Lower Deck.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Season, so I he'd also kind of forget that that
episode had dropped. It was like, oh, oh, got to
watch it.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
So I haven't seen it yet, but you know, I
did plenty of Star Trek watching for my homework, and
I did a little extra credit because I watched where
no one has gone before. Yeah, yeah, that's the one,
just because I was curious. I wanted to go back
and see the traveler stuff because of what happens in
(01:25):
Prodigy and it's really weird. It's it's a really weird
episode in general. But like, I still don't know what
the traveler is or can do or like, because he
just like in that episode, he just h he's just
there and like and and he definitely isn't like master
(01:48):
space and time. Like they're suggesting that Wesley is in Prodigy,
So I don't know where Daniel.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It's dangerous to talk about energy like that. You're too
young to be thinking that.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
But that was it was fun to go back to Tandre.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So yeah, what about you, Darren, how's your hashtag trick
number going?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's been going good? Yeah, probably. I've been enjoying this season,
this final season of Lower Techs. Although I will say
not not to get in the details. I I didn't
really care for the Star based eighty episode. It felt like,
I don't know, it was felt really weird. I need
(02:34):
to watch it again. It was I just kind of
kind of fell all over the place. But then it
got back in the groove with the next episode. But
here know there, I'm yeah kind of it'd be interesting
to see how this they end this season, just because
it's kind of just going along. There's no real giant
universe ending arc, which is fine. I don't need that
(02:57):
in my trek looking at you, Reguard, but yeah, but
that's been good, and it's been cool seeing some people
have been receiving their the first edition of the the
company formerly known as Eagle Moss whatever whatever it's called.
Oh yeah, so they've been getting their Titan A's in
(03:20):
in the mail and looking at them and I'm like,
that's really cool. I saw someone posed it with their
Captain Shaw figure. He's holding it like a giant model,
which is kind of cool. So I still am going
to find a way to get the the segand class.
I'm not going to subscribe, but like, I don't care
(03:41):
after market, and I just need that one ship because
it's gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
That feels like rubbing salt in the wound. But you know,
Kevin Captain Shaw RP. Yeah, because what happens to it?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
All that, and you know, I mean there's other Star
Trek characters that die we can still enjoy.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, but he was done dirty. He was done dirty,
and then they renamed his ship and it's like he
never existed. So I'm just saying that's all.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I'm just going to purge his music, change his registry number.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's hilarious. Uh yeah, no more deep dish on this ship.
It's New York style pizza. So this past two week
I went to the premiere. Wasn't anything fancy, But went
to the premiere of the Star Trek Voyager documentary to
(04:33):
the Journey, and I say, premiere's still not like one
hundred percent finished. So this is more for backers, this
because this was crowdfunded for those who don't know or
don't remember, because it's been several years at this point.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
You went to a premiere of a podcast that we
used to talk about. No exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So yeah, and obviously, you know, since no one else
has seen it but me in this area, so it's
nothing for me to talk about though I have about
thirty minute die tribe in me, but I will say largely,
I mean, I thought it is good. You know, I
think for Star Trek documentaries, obviously we're all sort of
like the d S nine one is sort of like
set the tone what we leave behind.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, there's something behind, there's chaos on the bridge, there's
you know, yeah, there's captains Captain's chair. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Yeah, and so yeah, I'll say it's good.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know, that's that's the short and sweet without anyone
you know, it's the whole McCoy's spot. I can't talk
to you about death without a frame of reference.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
But but it was good.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
It's just very behind the scenes, as I think I've
said in the chat, so like for those who are
like like the love story of Das nine and obviously
that's Ira doing it. So it's a little you know,
all the shore runners of Voyage are either I mean,
I hate to say it dead or Rick Berman and
so I mean, you know, and so it's been pretty
much you know, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
It's Rick Berman in it. Do they even interviews? Okay, yeah,
he is.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It's he's usually sitting next to Brandon Braga, which I
don't know if that was so friend could guide him, right, who's.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Like the the lead as far as interviews, like who
is there is there one person that's kind of leading
the story narrative or is it just.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
A scattershot of it's a scatter shot, yes, because like
the director who was there after the you know at
the in London at at the event, was there was
a Q and a afterwards it was with the director, there's.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Q and A. I see what you did there.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, yes, yes, but he's been behind a lot of
the other stuff, like I think he did Chaos. Don't
quote me, but I think he did Chaos, and I
think he did the Captains because he's worked with Shatner
blah blah blah. And then there was also Ben Robinson
that's the name of the top of my head, who's right,
who wrote a book on voyage. I don't know if
it's out or coming out. And so that was sort
of like the setup. But anyway, I won't go on
(06:52):
about it because you know, until you've seen it, there's
no point in me talking about it.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
But it was it was good behind the scenes, but yeah,
it was sort of.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
There wasn't like a thorough line like d S nine,
the only thorough line which really wasn't. But it was
Garrett Wang, well I don't know, say his last night,
but Garrett doing a s A do a trip at
the SA, the European Space Agency trip at the essay
on there. I'm trying not to say vomit comment, but
the parabolic airplane zero G and so you got to
(07:24):
see him doing that. So that was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
That's cool. One other Trek thing I did see. Uh,
they've been posting what was it, the trailer for First
Contact because I think we just hit the anniversary thirty
five years. There's something amount of time. It's been thirty
thirty years.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
I was a teenager when I saw it, and I'm
forty four, so you know too.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Well it's been well, it's ninety four, right, No, no, no,
that was ninety six. That's right, that's right. Anyway, all
that to say, uh, yeah, man, I love that trailer.
The you know of the borg a species, you know,
and it's well and it's the that weird nineties Trek
(08:13):
logo that came out, the oval with the chevron inside
of it.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
The generation's kind of one yeah and so but it's
like rolling past the screen almost looks like a halo ring.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
But it's the textured like borg cube texture, and then
it you know, yeah, it's just back in the days
where it's like, oh, okay, what do we need we
need a big voiceover voice. Oh yeah, in a world
where But someone pointed out that the other interesting thing
about the trailer is it has no shots of the e.
(08:43):
Its uses a few shots from generations so it does
not Uh, it's like, oh, we're not good. We're gonna
pretend that we still have the D but we don't.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So back in the day we need to put everything
on the trailer.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
There's definitely not everything in that, including the ending.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Now, oh and then one last thing before getting into it.
I don't know if all we all saw the is
it called generation or regeneration whatever? But the short put
up by the Rodberry folks with Captain Kirk, I haven't
watched watched it.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I've seen like some bits, I just haven't had a
moment to uh to do that. But it looked. I mean,
the whole digital makeup is very clever. I think it's
a great way to go forward.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
It is weird. It's very weird.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
It's weird because it's been to me. It's funny.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I mean, like you know, people, you know, whatever reaction
you want, it's fine, but like people like, oh, it's so.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Sad, and which it is. I mean, you know, the
end of.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It is sad obviously, but like the lead up to
the end, I'm like, did I did I take something?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
And not note?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Because it's very bizarre, it's very strange. It turns out
that Sam whitwer Is actually plays Captain Kirk. Obviously they
swap out his face, but science fiction fans will know
sim where he's He's done a lot of a lot
of stuff. He was. He also does the voice of.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Mallah voice of Mall.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, and he also was in a Star Wars video game,
and he was in I think Battlestar as well. I
think I might be wrong on that one, but he's
been a lot of stuff. So I saw a behind
the scenes, behind the scenes shot of him in the
in the uniform.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Am I like that?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
That'd be fun. He'd be a good captain.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, if only they had already cast him first.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Strange New Worlds. Uh yeah. I say that because obviously
you know.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Darren if you haven't seen it, but because of course
my mind's trying to whatever can be abstract. I'm fine with,
you know, following an abstract journey, but my mind is
trying to put some like what's happening and they do too,
you know. Again, without going into I'll let you watch
it first about people past that you see from the
past or current, and then what.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Are we seeing? Is this heaven? Is this is this whatever?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But I think the one that got me was and
I forget how much where this was in Discovery. So
I don't know, Daniel, if you remember this or even
even seen this, But there was the guy alien in
Discovery that was shown as one of the least oh yeah,
Cold War Temple Cold War people. He has like the
(11:23):
season one t G uniform and he shows up and
so I'm like, what does that mean?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
So, oh he's from Discovery.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well yeah, he was referenced in Discovery, but yeah, he's
shown to be the last during the Temple Cold War,
like the last time.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
So so I only watched this thing once because I
felt like that.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Was watch like fifteen times and I didn't.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
I didn't understand it at all. And I didn't know
like is this supposed to be a dream or like
you say, like like they're dead or because it's it's
very surreal and there's no there's no are any lines
at all. Maybe at the very end, I can't yeah, okay,
that's why. Okay, So yeah it's and it's like all
these random characters show up and I'm like, and they're
(12:06):
in different time periods, and I just was not clear
on what the heck was going on or what I
was supposed to take away from it. So I don't
even know what the backstory here is, Like, what was
the point of this? What was like the.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I think it's just showcase and try you know this
digital makeup techniques, and because it was partly put on
by by Roddenberry, wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
It is because it's a continuation from I guess there's
three parts.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I forget what the first part is, but we all
remember the one with this showed like the Enterprise d
being lifted off Radio three and then Spock visiting Kirk's graves.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
This is like a continuation of that.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Oh okay, okay, I guess okay, that's a little bit
better of a context for me, but it's still weird.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yes, because even that one doesn't make sense because that
one's sort of like a trippy thing that references a
crewman from the cage And you're like, I don't know
what story.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
I'm watching, but any No, it's all cool.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I mean, this isn't a criticis it just it was
it's yeah, So yeah, Darren, you watch it and you'll
have to tell us what you think.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
The whole thing I have, I mean, I've seen parts
of it without the sound, which apparently is not.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
So just music.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
That's even weirder now, like so the whole thing has
no one talking.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Well, I assumed it was because.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Like me digitally like doing the talking would have been.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I did not see the latest Indiana Jones, but I'm
told from the beginning you have like young Indiana with
like old man Harrison Ford talking, and so I think
that was probably why.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
You know, because there's younger Shatner.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
But they do this, they do this with the aid
of AI like what they did do. I wonder why
not just do.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
The voices would be with that age that's true.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I wonder if also Shatner had to sign off on this,
because I don't know if.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
He I assumed he was in it, but maybe I
don't understand how I.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Think I did hear him like participating in.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
It, not like the scan, because I get that they
did the younger guy for tos, but for generations Kirk,
I just assumed they used shat and you're in.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Oh, I don't think aged. I mean maybe I guess
maybe he isn't it. I didn't see anything about that,
but I.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Don't think he's in it. I think he was participated
though in the creation.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Okay, it's just a bizarre sort. I had actually completely
forgotten about that very the three things Phillip that you mentioned.
I'm like, I completely forgot that was even a thing,
and that was weird too, But this is like another
level because it feels like it's trying to say something
or trying to tell a bit of a story, and
I by the end, I'm like, I don't okay, Like
(14:37):
I saw some characters there was like Kirk dealing with himself,
and then it's just weird, just weird, just a bizarre thing.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Well, speaking of trippy, we are going to talk about
revisiting Star Trek Discovery. It seems weird to say because
it's off the air now, but with section thirty one,
excuse me, with Star Trek Section thirty one coming out
in a couple I guess months. I could say weeks
honestly at this point, because it's isn't it January? I
(15:08):
want to say that maybe I'm wrong, but you know, yeah,
fairly soon as we as as track November ends, it
won't be too long. And so I thought we would
kind of look back at the GEORGEO character, you know,
ostensibly Captain Georgio obviously rip, but you got you got
(15:28):
some time.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's January twenty fourth, so like two whole months.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah you said weeks, Well I mean amount of weeks,
eight weeks nine?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Okay, true, but anyway, but yes, so I and I
don't know everyone didn't If you did it, that's fine.
So I rewatched all of season one disco just a
bit because I know, obviously this is the emperor, you know, mayor.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Georgia or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
But I wanted a taste of Captain Georgia and then
also to get where then emperors Georgio came from. And
even though at she in or she leaves I'm hand
quoting she leaves at the end of season one, you
know who knows where she goes, and then obviously she
comes back in season two.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
But I was just interested in what.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
How that character was sort of created and then should
then helmle her own what do we call this TV movie?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Special?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
TV movie?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, so I guess just general impress kind of like
a CBS logo, like coming out, like CBS special presentation
from like the nineteen eighties. Oh, if they started with that,
I would it would forget I would give it one
higher star, just the entire thing. If they started like that,
(16:45):
I know they want.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
But Daniel, what's your And you can either do captain.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Or Emperor or both, or well you have to do
with some of them, can't do neither. But what are
your impressions about the character that now is helming around
TV movie.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I mean, I think this is not gonna be anything
different or new, but I mean I like, I like
Captain Georgia quite a bit. I mean, even though we
don't get a lot of her, you know, she's just
in that first episode or whatever, but I like her
well too. I like her a lot. She seems interesting,
She seems like a really competent captain other than the
(17:23):
fact that her first officer mutinies, and I would like
to see more of her. And then of course we
gets miror Georgia, and I I just, I mean, it's
to me, it's just lazy. It's just it's not even
like I guess maybe I'm gonna forget her name now.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
The lady that plays her, Michelle Yoh, Michelle.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
I wanted maybe she wanted like just like Patrick did.
Maybe she wanted to like to do the fun karate
kicks and stabby stabs and have a good time. And
maybe that's what it was. I don't know, but like
I would try, I would trade. I would rather have
a section thirty one show with her with Captain Georgia
instead of Empress Shorgo.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, I'm trying to set my mind to the way
back machine of you know what, gosh, what year was it?
Twenty twenty seventeen? Wow? Uh And just I mean, I
admire them for what they did in the season one,
for a lot of things they tried and just kind
(18:29):
of jump in. I mean again, this show brought star
Trek back into this third generation or second generation, third generation,
third generation, the next next generation that sounds like a
good name, but it I feel like there's your Seau
thing was kind of like a season two concept that
(18:52):
they shoved in season one, meaning we don't know Grseau.
It's a brand new series, a brand new person. We've
seen her, you know, in this on the Desert Planet
mission for like ten seconds and then she dies, and
now we're supposed to feel this oddity from you know,
(19:17):
from Michael's perspective of you know her mentor you know
and all of that, and and I think they do
an okay job of communicating that, but it would have
been so much more impactful, you know, in hindsight, like
if we had seen her and then it's kind of
makes me think of what second chances with Thomas Reiker,
(19:42):
you know, with that episode would not have worked as
like the fifth episode of season one, you know what
I mean, Like we would have been like, oh, yeah,
those different changes that we've not seen because we just
have seen three episodes of you. So all that to
say is I think the mirror ger thing would have
(20:03):
worked a little better if it had just come later,
and we also would have gotten a bigger dose of
Primes your Joe. But I think that was probably my
argument back in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
So I sort of feel like, like maybe if they
pushed it like halfway through the season, like like because
the first two episodes really try to do a lot
of world building and like it shoves too much in
way too quick. So like maybe if you get two
or three episodes or four episodes with Captain Georgia, like
the mutiny actually means something, you could put some sort
(20:40):
of context around it where it was for a good
reason or whatever other than Michael just hates Klingons. I guess,
I like, and then we would have I never will, yeah,
And I just I don't know it, just because I
see what you're saying, Darren, and I do think that
would help things, because it's like, Okay, well she's gone
(21:01):
and now and now when she comes back, we're supposed
to like follow Michael through her journey of like, oh
this is my mentor figure and I'm so sad about it,
and I don't know. I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Well, and again you know, we're all throwing things at
the wall as if we're in a pitch meeting. You know,
this has been yeah, yeah, but uh, maybe it's like
you said, Daniel, like all the world building, but maybe
(21:32):
it just needed like one more pass of like simplification,
meaning you know, start on Discovery, have your Joe be
the captain of Discovery, and who passes, and then Lorca
comes in and he's also now an outsider, like like
it felt so strange that we were trying to learn
about the the shin Zu ship that we spent like
(21:56):
half a second with and then it was gone. Like
that was very odd, like because not only did I
not care about the ship or the captain as much
because we'd barely spend any time with them, so all
that to say, yeah, I mean maybe that's something that
could have been. And I know that that's how they
wanted to tell the story of this mutiny happens, and
(22:18):
then you know, six months later, you know, time passes,
but yeah, it was. It was a start, you know what.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Rewatching it and just sticking with the Captain Georgioe for
a second. I'm of two minds. One is to agree,
and I think we've all said this before. We'd probably
said it for the past eight years, six years, however
long it's been. But of like, oh, well, more Georgia
would be cooler. But when I'm watching it and show right,
yeah yeah, Captain Georgia, yeah yeah, And then watching it
(22:52):
again this time, I'm almost like I could lose the
first two episodes, like I know, this is this goes again,
show don't tell, but I think you could tell not
show and it all would almost be more powerful because
now that I've seen the mutiny and now I'm told
throughout this whole season, this whole big thing it was,
I'm like, it wasn't that big.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
I mean, you know, she pointed a phase writer. I
get it, but like it wasn't this whole big thing.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I almost like if you had not shown me, I
would have invented something so much bigger and betrayal of
like if it's just an oh, I betrayed my captain
and I mutinied and I caused the war, which again
we could I don't know if we want to religate
this first, like.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Did she cause the war?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Like if Michael had.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Done nothing, had sat on her butt, the war still
would have happened. I'm just gonna throw that out there.
But anyway, but to be like it's one month, like
you could never have shown it, like maybe she has
a picture of Captain Georgia or she gets like the
what's the word I'm looking for the estate? Yeah, or
you know her estate that she she gets from her
(23:54):
bequeathment whatever you want to call it, and then we
see it and then finally, oh, and then we see
the Empress.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I'm like, oh, that's the who is it the pick dad?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Because like, oh, maybe they're just using Michelle Well for
a picture. It was like, wow, that's pretty cool, but
I don't know why. And then like there she is,
so yeah, I'm up two minds, like one I almost
could lose the whole thing. And then on the other hand,
as you say, Darren, maybe just do because they I
will say, fifteen episodes, I could see that's actually enough,
like ten's too short, and then twenty four too many.
(24:24):
But I mean they had enough they can play with
because there were times where they went slow and there
are times they went.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Quick and right. I forget the first season was fifteen,
but I mean in two parts. But still that's quite
a bit.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And again this is those first two episodes, so then
it's really thirteen. But I think if we had had
maybe Georgia at least like one more episode. I mean,
I'm not saying make the pilot three, but again I
don't know, it would just have to redo it a
little bit. But just give her us a little more
Georgia because I think she does a great job because
she translates. Oh, this great character for like, I don't
(25:00):
know how much she is is she on screen in
this two epis it's like forty minutes or thirty minutes,
and like you totally get, oh, this is a good captain.
She's funny, but she's competent, and she's tough and da
da da da but I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
And then they replace her with a caricature.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
To me then with the Emperor, and again I'm not
just going to say anything new, but I'm still gonna
say it to me. The Empress or Emperor, however we
want to say it is just an embodiment of Michael's conflict,
like you know, we, oh, we needed someone because oh,
Michael has this big weight on her shoulders about betraying Georgeau.
(25:45):
Because we get the whole part in season one again
if you don't remember, you know where she gets in here.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
You know, she's you know, she's mutinied.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
The death of her captain that weighs in her six
months later, and then she has the prisoner. But then
after a while she gets that inheritance from GEORGIAU and
then she's having to deal with Saru, who's like, you know, Michael,
you're danger da da da da dah that thing. And
then finally the Empress comes, so now she's embodied again
with her captain, and then you have those two episodes
(26:14):
or three episodes, and then at the end she saves
the Emperor is about to you know, Lorca's rebels are
about to come at her and grabs the Emperor to
go back to the Discovery, to go back to her world.
So you know, it's all sort of like a physical
thing of like how do we embody Michael's emotional conflict?
And to me, that's the Emperor, I guess, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I just want to say real quick about that point,
because this is a trope that start comes back to
again and again and again, is alternate versions of characters.
So like when Cisco's wife shows up in that episode
of of Duce's Nine where they go to the Mirror
universe and he's like conflicted about all of his feelings,
(26:56):
like and for for first all, I understand that like
that it's an interesting position to be in, like like,
there's no we can't even relate to it, right, we
can't relate to somebody dies and then all of a
sudden they show up again. Obviously that that would be
a weird position to be in. But also there's the
other part about it, which is that's not the same person.
That's a different person entirely. Why are you people following
(27:17):
for the same thing. Oh, Michael should not have this
emotional connection to this woman. She tried to put her
in jail like everybody else, and and that's it, Like
that's oh man, Like I now miss Georgia because she
looks just like Georgieau but she is not Georgia. She
is the anti George. I don't understand. This relationship tension
(27:39):
is not enough to last one episode, let alone like
the whole season or whatever, the whole series. It's like,
she's not the same person. That person is dead and
this is clearly a very different person with entirely different
experiences and everything. So I just I wish they would
stop going back to that well because it's it feels
lazy to me, like, oh, she's back. This this this
(28:00):
person that you did this terrible thing too, and now
you know you feel responsible for is back and now
you're completely responsible for her again, and it's like that's
not how it works, and that's just I mean, Mirror
Universe is silly anyways. But to me, I just I
roll my eyes every time we have to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
And then Darren, I'm interested in your thoughts about this,
which again now you I don't know if you saw though,
I just have to remember. But because the Mirror episodes,
again I think they're only three up you think I
just watched it, but like they're not.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
They're only there's not that many yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Because it's like they're there da da And then but anyway,
they could have.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Used and they do to a little bit, but they
could have.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Used this sort of mirror storyline with the Emperor for
Michael to work out these final Georgeau feelings because Mayor
Georgia has a relationship with her with maryor Burnham because
you know, if you don't remember, maryor Burnham went away
with Lorca, Oh he was a father to you and
then became something extra, which is obviously cutty. But anyway,
but then that Mayor Burnham betrayed her and so this
(29:06):
you know, blah blah blah blah. So you see what
they're doing, but then it works out at the end,
and then you sort of have where they're kind of
friendly at the end, and then oh they fought together,
and so it's kind of like in a way, maybe
she's healed it, Michael has healed it, and then she
beams away and then oh, the Emperor goes out in
the blaze glory. Except they're like, no, no, no, that's not.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
What we're going to do. We're going to take her
with us. So I mean that seems like obviously they
wanted to keep the character.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, So I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I guess said it's Michelle Wu. I mean, I guess
you didn't want to lose her.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
But I get that, but it kind of comes down
to the core. I don't know. I guess it makes
me think about this kind of more modern sensibility that
is in a lot of television and movies of the
(30:08):
redeemable antagonists, you know, and which can definitely be done.
But I'm trying to think, like there's very few and
far mirror episode people that I think are redeemable. I
mean it kind of gets, you know, as time progresses,
(30:28):
you know, because like Smiley and you know, Bashir and
stuff like in DS nine, like they were slightly non genocidal,
you know, maniacs like, so it definitely had come a
long way from mirror mirror where like, oh God, like
these people are monsters, like this is this is so terrible.
(30:49):
So I mirror episodes at their best are holding up
a mirror to our main characters, and and by doing
so much mirror in halfway through the first season, again,
we're still learning who these people are we're still you know,
(31:13):
trying to so we don't know what which side is
the reflection, Like heav' forbid, our characters become less interesting
than their mirror counterparts. That could happen if we haven't
seen you know, a lot. So all that to say,
I think I think I liked the parts that they
(31:33):
did with the I love all of the things that
tried with the Mirror universe. I liked you know, gier
Joe being the Emperor. I liked Lorca's I think could
have been used even more in all of that reveal.
But I still think Prime Lorca needs to show up somewhere.
I think that'd be amazing. But yeah, it just it
(31:55):
was a fun world to play in, but there wasn't
enough contrast for me between like our I mean because
already like Discoveries, you know, it's what do they say,
not your Dad's Trek, But it already had a lot
of darkness to it, and so there wasn't as much
(32:18):
contrast with the mere universe in a way.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
And I just want to hammer on a point that
you just made. Though Darren Is is redeemable, you know,
like anti hero kind of the thing, and this woman
that they created that they write for. Not only like
is directly responsible for like you know, millions or maybe
even billions of tortures and deaths and whatever just from
(32:43):
her position. She she is also personally responsible for me,
like and takes like an obscene amount of enjoyment out
of it. Like she's clearly like.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
You know, I'm not gonna say this, yeah yeah, she's yeah,
yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Like she's like, you know, in a pretty evil person.
She's pretty irredeemable. And even if you even if she
can be quote unquote redeemed, which is kind of like
the whole point of the next season, I think with
her if I remember, like and even at the end,
she's like, nope, I'm still who I am and I'm
still who I want to be and whatever. Like even
if she was like saw the light and no longer
(33:18):
wanted or enjoyed murdering people, she should still go to
jail for the rest of her life and never ever, ever,
ever do anything. So like she's she's so cartoonly evil, uh,
and like they go out of their way to like
give her such terrible qualities, Like I don't know why
we even care about this person or talk about this
person you can't make me like her because she's like,
(33:41):
you can't do it because she's the worst. So I don't.
I'm just it doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
But she's brit at it.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Well.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
One thing that struck me watching the season in the
Marror episode is because you know, I don't remember the
exact episode, but anyway, it's the Marror episode or one
of the Mare episodes. She's with, Michael is with the Emperor,
and I forget how what they're talking about, but they're
kind of talking about the way of the mayor universe
and then the different people. Again I'm losing the context,
(34:13):
but anyway, but this is where it suddenly clicks for
everyone if you hadn't figured out already, because I remember,
if we'd figured out at that point where you know,
the episode itself is telling you and Michael is telling you.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Lorca, oh my god, uh is the mirror, Laurca.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
He was the whole time. And I'm not making fun
of that. That's fine, you know, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
But they're doing the click click click click click flash
flash flashback flashback, gears turning in Michael, Gears turning in Michael.
So then Michael, Oh my god Larca, and she's saying
that out loud to like the Emperor.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
I'm not quoting here, like, oh.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Oh, Larka, he's you know, he's a mirror, he's one
of yours. But then so then she's like oh again
not saying this literally, oh, I'll help you get him.
Then and I'm thinking to myself, why, like, like, okay, okay, okay, Lorca,
the mayor Lorca, Okay, why are you choosing the Emperor's
side over his side? How do you know you shouldn't
(35:11):
choose his side? I mean, okay, there's a rebellion going on.
Why do you know which side to choose in this
Mayor universe? Because you've been dealing with like from my side,
having watched this whole season, okay, because she's developed a
really close relationship with Lorca, even just as oh, that's
my captain now, my new captain, who I'm very and
you know, he's done a lot with her, obviously for
(35:32):
a nefarious well quote unquote nefarious reasons.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
I hid an agenda, we'll say that with her.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
But she's really there's a lot of things she says
to him and understands him and close and then this betrayal,
and she still goes from like loyal to betray to opposite,
I must now work against him and kill And I'm
like that was a wide like i could get like,
oh he's betrayed, but I'm not instantly going, oh hey,
I don't know who you are, mayor emperor, but I'm
not on your side to go get them.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
And I'm like, Okay, that was fast. Like why is
Lorca the bad guy?
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Like I'm not defending because again Daniel saying thing he's
a bad guy, but like, why is he the bad guy?
Speaker 3 (36:09):
The thing about Lorga too, is like they're way more
effective at making Lorca like interesting and likable and quote
unquote maybe redeemable or maybe not obviously, but like because
that whole beginning of the first season, when we didn't
know his secret, we obviously knew there was some dark
streak to him or whatever, and like maybe it was
(36:30):
just the war or whatever, but he was clearly like
there was something there about him, and it was really
intriguing and interesting. And then even when it was revealed,
like you said, it didn't feel overblown to me. It
didn't feel like like his character. It just sort of
fit the character that we knew, so it just made
a lot more sense than what they did with the
George Show.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, because I mean, I don't know. And again I
said this at the time. I remember, and even before
we knew who Lorca was, he's like, Okay, he's different.
He's definitely not good, but he's interesting. He has this
sort of I mean, chrisma might not be the right word,
but you are drawn to him and perhaps even knowing
you shouldn't be. But then, like, as I'm watching season
(37:15):
one now knowing this, and I mean, I don't know
what to say. Obviously you don'n't want the writers to
make it obvious, you know, like, oh, well, you know,
but it's hard to reconcile that he is one hundred
percent the mirror guy when you're rewatching season one, unless
he's a really good actor. And maybe he is, you know,
Gabriel Loki mayor Lorca, because like he wants to win
(37:38):
the war. Why, like, I mean other than because they
never make like you could explain that, which they never do. Oh,
he's just warlike and he but like he wants to
win the war and he's doing everything for the Federation
to beat the Klingons.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Why.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
I mean, I get that his agenda is for the discovery,
but that there's a way you could do that that
doesn't involve how he does things.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
That's the thing, Like I feel like that was possible,
Like I don't know, I would have loved Lorca in
like the first two seasons and then maybe the switch
to have happened in the second again just more time
with the character. But you're I think you're totally able.
You have to write this character. And I totally get
(38:22):
what you're saying, Philip, where I had the same thought
of you know, I remember when it first aired and
there's that scene I think we're sleeping with was it Cornwall, Yeah,
and you see his back, like his shirtless back, and
it's got like a triangle scar or something, and I
(38:42):
remember everyone being like, what does that mean? Like, you know,
you can't you can't have him sneeze and people don't
like dissect it like you have. Nowadays, you have to
be very subtle if you're hiding something, because people will
latch on to it, and then you know, people talk,
people communicate with other Star Trek fans all over the
(39:05):
world instantly, so that you have to play it a
little more close to the vest. But I also get
what you're saying about. Yeah, like again, what does a
mirror universe person do when they're hiding in our universe?
Like we've never really seen that, So are they disgusted
(39:26):
by showing compassion or or is he just a really
good actor of hiding it, you know, because the mirror
people we've seen, like, you know, they wouldn't or it
reminds me of like some of the Star Wars games
where you each your choices leads you down the light
side of the dark side path and sometimes if you
(39:47):
make a you know, you certain pass our close to
you because if you choose a bad thing then someone
won't talk to you and they'll leave and you're like, oh,
well now that side quest is closed because you know,
but or if you kill them then it's also closed,
so like you have no choice, so all that. Yeah,
So if he is being a mere universe person in
(40:12):
our time, yeah, there could be moments where oh yeah,
why did he why did he spare that ship? Like
is he really just that good at hiding? You know?
Speaker 3 (40:27):
I always thought that Lorca, like I thought he was
because we don't know how like this, how the swap happened, right,
So I was just assumed that he swapped with Captain
Lorca and that was the position that he was in,
so he was sort of dealing with the cards he
was dealt.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
I'll just refresh because if you haven't watched, and it
was the Baran was under well in the Marry universe,
the Barand was under attack, and I think he was
a rebellion at the rebellion at this point. So he
was being attacked I think by the Emperor's forces and
so he was getting beamed up from the planet where
he was with his you know, rebels or something by
(41:02):
the Baran. But they were in ion storm and dig
and that's how that happened.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Staying ions, remind me, is there a second person, uh,
mirror person that also has pulled over? Or was his
security officer just a bad person?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
That's what you were Gys saying earlier. I was I was
going in my head about like, you know, because you
were I think it was you Darren saying Discovery, you know,
not your father Star Trek.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
And I'm like, so Landry was the not mirror person
because because.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
We meet Mayor Landry if that's her name, like Marror Landry,
and I'm like, wait, because that would make more sense,
but no, because you meet Mayor, because you know, regular
Landry gets killed by like the third episode, but like
you see maryor Landry, You're like, oh, okay, this.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
One seems nicer.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
I don't know. Yeah, yeah, but we.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Don't because we never do see regular Lorca. We never
know where he.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Goes or I mean presumably dead, but obviously you know
they'll be, don't Yeah, I mean you know what, I
guess we never will probably meant him because since the
Discovery is over now, but maybe he'll be in the
U in the movie.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Lower Decks short track short.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
But you know, I was just thinking that, like, because
he found himself on the in starfleet as a captain,
he sort of has to work within those confines, so
like he you know, and he probably does enjoy power,
so he you know, as a captain, he has a
great deal and he also probably enjoys war. So he
found himself in a pretty fortuitous position. Uh, he just
(42:30):
had to probably have to discover it pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I'm picturing were Lorca, you know, is his first day
brought over and he's like, well, what is the mission
of this? You know, attack ship and they're like, uh, well,
we have to go complete our first census sweep of
the neutral zone. He's just like, ah, I hate this,
but it's like, wait, wait, what do you beat? A
(42:52):
war just broke out? How fortuitous? You know?
Speaker 4 (42:56):
That's that's funny.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
And then the way the last step said, I was
gonna say the season end, but it's only just the
last episode because it was funny. As I'm watching this
in my head because I'm like, okay, there's fifteen episodes
because I'm trying to fit, you know, watch this in
time for this podcast, and like I said, I hit
episode ten.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I'm like, oh, we're still doing the Klingon store.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
But like episode ten is when they go they get
the figure out the cloaking stuff and they're gonna, you know,
pop over to Star of Fleet Command, win the war.
And then that's when they go to the Marre episodes.
So it's like eleven episode eleven. Ag I'm like, there's
fifteen episodes and they're just getting the married it looks eleven.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
But anyway, well in tamsaid was the beginning of the
second half in January.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, yeah, but anyway, but been the last episode if
you don't remember, this is where for briefly they make
a deal. Admiral Cornwall and Seric make a deal with Uh,
this is Marriat Georgia. I met with Georgio. So she
pretends to be Captain Georgia for the mission and they
beam down to Chronos. But she Georgia has offered one
(43:54):
plan to the Discovery and so they think, oh, we're
here to do like a scan, but she's offered a
second plan to add or Cornwall and Sarah to basically
blow up the planet.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
And so then you have this.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
If you remember the Chronos, you know, uh, clingon ping
on the wall and you get what's his name? Uh
ah Tom, No, sorry, I can't remember the actor's name.
Who's been in all the Star Treks. Was in the
first episode of Star Trek, and who's in an every
Star Trek. He's the direct Ron Howard's brother, Clint Clint Howard, Sorry,
(44:30):
Clint Howard plays the Orion and gets you know, Chili High.
It's a great episode, right Anyway, The point is that
you have this final confrontation I say final for the
episode between Michael and Georgio, because again we're talking about
second chances and because Georgia wants to blow up everything
or you know, but has the bomb already in there,
and you know, Michael has a talker out of it.
(44:53):
But again, this goes back to what y'all are saying
with second you know, with this thing about why why
this character? Why the character? Why why do we still
have her round? And there's this whole notion And I
get what they're doing of second chances because Michael, you know,
began as a prisoner and now was given a second chance,
and now she's trying to give this you know, that
(45:14):
the whole redemption thing, like you were sitting there, the
second chance was your jau. But like Georgia basically just
says like yeah, whatever, I don't does she need a
second chance?
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, no she doesn't.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Not everybody should get a second chance.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
So yeah, because it kind of ends.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I mean, the raiders obviously leave it open ended because
it's basically like, uh, Michael's like they gave you your
freedom anyway, they don't care, you know, you can leave.
Georgia's like bye and just leaves walks away. But yeah,
it's it's it just seems like a weird thing because
I get what they were doing Okay, we want them.
It's all about the embodiment of Michael's story. We need
actual characters instead of like the story. We need people
(45:50):
to be the story of, you know, the Michael second chance.
And oh now she's offering someone a second chance, who
I guess takes it?
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Ish.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
I mean, she doesn't blow up the planet, right, but
she never really cared about blowing up cronas. I mean,
like she was like helping the Federation to get her freedom.
I mean it was an opportunity, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
It wasn't like very manipulative.
Speaker 4 (46:12):
I mean, she's sort of like I don't give it.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Are there like I might be just unaware? Like you know,
I have seen Trek fandom, you know, about certain characters
and or hatred or you know, it goes both ways.
I feel like Georgia like fan, Like, are are there
people that are like huge fans of like mirror georgieau Like,
I don't know anywhere, And I don't know. I'm not
(46:35):
saying that they don't exist, of course, but I'm just
saying like, like is there a push for her? Like
do people really really love it? Or is it just
the fact that they have Michelle and she's you know,
she won an Oscar I heard around this time, and
then of course they wanted to keep her on and like,
but like other than that, like this character specifically because
because I was just curious, I just haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah, yeah, that I had that same vibe where yeah,
with Giorseau and Lorca, because at the end of the day,
I'm like, Okay, I like these actors and actresses, but
all the time I'm spending with them, I mean, mine
is a tiny bit for Gergeau, I'm with this terrible person,
(47:17):
and so it's like I don't want to root for them.
I don't want them to be, you know, my favorite
character in that way. And so it's like, yeah, it's
like again, we how many times have we said, oh,
we wish we had more of Prime Lorca or we
saw you know, Cause or or Prime or not Prime, yeah,
Captain Georgau. So it's like, yeah, instead we spend all
(47:44):
this time with these these mirror people I don't know,
just wanting more, and maybe that's just what they want.
They want you wanting more. And then you come back.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Because and I'm not you know what, obviously are going
to be jumping up and down about section thirty one.
Maybe we'll all be surprised.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
Who knows.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
But I just wanted to say for the Georgio, I
mean she is and always has been, even in season
two and season three when did she leave four anyway,
season four three three, I mean she's the mother figure
obviously of Michael, and just like Captain Georgieau was and
her of course then we have her actual mother. But anyway,
(48:24):
that's like her purpose. I mean, it's a very limited
purpose for that character to serve. I mean, she doesn't
really have any other once needs other relationships. It is
just to Michael, that figure. And so to then be
in section thirty one without Michael, and it's like, what
is this character's purpose because that's all she's ever meant
is to be that Michael dynamic.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
It's so funny, Philip, because you just mentioned the Red
Angel stuff, which I had completely forgotten about that with
her actual mother, and I'm like, my goodness, like you say,
all they do, all these characters, these all these really
long story arcs and stuff. All that it amounts to,
even though we're presented is this is universe ending stakes.
All it really is about is Michael's character and her
(49:05):
relationship to that character, and it's like I don't know.
And I was also just thinking too, like like like
what we were saying before, but it not being your
father's Star Trek like and Darren's point about these mirror characters,
and I don't want to look up to these mirror
characters because like in traditional Star Trek, like our characters
are super competent, well meaning people who are trying to
(49:26):
do good in the universe, and like that's it for
its own sake, like they're literally just trying to go
out and help and explore and do all these lotty goals.
But now in this sort of storytelling, you're you're giving
us these characters who are not just flawed. They're not.
It's not like they're you know, oh he has a temper.
It's like, oh, he's a mass murderer who will eat
(49:47):
your first officer, you know, as suit you whenever they can.
So it's like I don't understand that, Like it's such
a shift. It's really really hard to like adjust to it.
And yeah, if you like the traditional sort of Star
Trek we do.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Yeah, and that's a I think it's always a balance
that you have to have in Star Trek. I mean,
I think of DS nine and which definitely at its time,
like was pushing a lot as far as the types
of I mean, these were way more flawed characters, but
(50:23):
at the end of the day, and maybe because it
was like part Starfleet, part crazy aliens on the Station,
I think that helped a lot, because I can't picture
like Ensign Garrick getting away with any of the crap
that he pulled. You know, in Starfleet it's like, no,
but at the end of the day, well, and the
(50:46):
little country exits, But at the end of the day, Yeah,
all of your people were competent and and struck and
did the right thing at the end of the day
for all of their you know, moments, and that's what
(51:06):
made it Star Trek. And so as Star Trek progresses
and I get wanting to write more complex characters and
flaws and things like that, and you know, I definitely
think I mean, we've seen enough interviews about TNG and
stuff where they're like, how do you write for the show?
You can't have interpersonal conflict, and you know, they got
(51:29):
their ways around it eventually, but yeah, but then there's
a way to go too far where like oh yeah,
this character is interesting, but they're not a star Fleet
off like I'm to give Lorca like that's this is
a terrible, mass murdering person. Like I don't want to
root for them or for them to be the hero.
(51:53):
So all that to say, you know, be interesting to
see what we get in, Like I'm excited for start
Starfleet Academy, you know, because again now that one they
can not skirt the line that's not the right phrase,
but they can get away with more in a personal
(52:13):
conflict because they're becoming Starfleet there, and they're also approaching
it as kind of like it's kind of weird. It's
it's almost like and now we're going to reactivate West
Point from seventeen seventy five and teach you the ideals
we had, Like it's it's going to be interesting. Now.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
There's a really easy way to do that is you
have your main character be the first Zorbappian in Starfleet
and it's a it's a it's a program where they're
you know, being introduced to the you know everything and
they so they have to learn from one oh one
like Federation one oh one.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
And well, but that's the thing is everyone is going
to be Federation one O one, because that's the whole
point is that it's the past teaching the future. So yeah,
it could be it could be very interesting. But like
my to hit my point, they can have more inter
personal conflicts, they can have fights, they can have disagreements,
they can have you know, all of that because they
(53:09):
are becoming Starfleet and what I think most people expect
those characters to be.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
They can get him domb job brawls.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
We gotta have some dom Jack guys. We gotta have
it cool.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
Yeah, And I mean, last thing I'll say before were
closing up here because I I just thought it was
an interesting contrast because and you know, I mean maybe
I'm obviously saying which Mayor character I likes more, but
it was like, once you got the Mayor reveal about Lorca,
he became instantly dispensable. And I'm like what I mean,
I'm not saying, don't have him get killed or whatever,
(53:47):
but like give me an episode with the consequences.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
You know.
Speaker 4 (53:50):
It was sort of like He's.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Like, ah ah, sorry about that, Michael, you know, you know,
respect respect, and then she you know, a burstabs in
the back and like that, Okay, I mean like it
would have been cool to get a little bit more
than that, because just because you were like, you know,
it's like the terrible analogy would be like it's a
will they won't they? And then when they get together
then you stop the story ends. I'm like, you know, oh,
(54:13):
without a puzzle box, this Lorica character is nothing.
Speaker 4 (54:16):
I'm like it was I could have had more.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
I mean I'm not saying seasons more, but you know something.
But anyway, but you know, then we get Emperor Forever
in a day.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
No, what are they going to do? What are they
going to do in the movie? Like like a quick
prediction just because we've just talked about like she shouldn't
be redeemed, Like what is she going to die in
a blaze of glory at the end of that movie?
Or is like because presumably this way is the last
time we're going to see her, that.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
Kind of makes sense. I mean, as it being a
movie versus a show, which is more open ended, maybe.
Speaker 4 (54:52):
I think they'll leave it open ended.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah, they'll never like you think Steretrek's going to be like, no,
we don't ever want Michelle to come back.
Speaker 3 (54:58):
No, you can always have them back. Well, like what
they put her back in the Mirror universe. I guess
then that's my point like with that, like she just
goes and then she come back or whatever if you
really want to.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
This is a terrible analogy, but it makes me think
of like Blue Beetle, you know, with where the DC was,
and it's like, if you like it.
Speaker 4 (55:17):
We'll keep it. If not, we'll never speak of it again.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
You know right well?
Speaker 4 (55:25):
That that's uh, you know, And stay tuned for section
thirty one.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
In two months, everyone a matter of weeks, as some saying.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
Eight weeks is still an amount of weeks.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Everything's in an amount of weeks if you think about it.
But I'm just saying after four it becomes months.
Speaker 4 (55:40):
Dan, just just wait for a Trecuary and.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
Then we got to get through Trix number first.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
And until one week from now we will talk Star
Trek even more. I'm Philip Gilphiss, I'm going to approve,
and I'm Darren Moser stranded here on City Offer three
Welcome to the Nerd Party.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm Darren Moser, I'm Philip Gilphis, I'm Daniel Prue and.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
This is City Alpha three.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Hello, and welcome to City Alpha three Star Trek podcast.
Here on the Nerd Party, I'm Philip, joined by Daniel
and Darren. So, Daniel, how are you closing up your
Trek Member.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Trek Vember?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Oh my god, I just stop trying to make Trek
Member a thing. It's not a thing, Philip.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We already know the titles of the episode, so yeah,
it's good, except for the fact that you you actually
just mentioned in our chat for all events, the newest
Lower Decks episode came out, and I completely forgot that
we were even in the middle of a Lower Deck.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Season, so I he'd also kind of forget that that
episode had dropped. It was like, oh, oh, got to
watch it.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
So I haven't seen it yet, but you know, I
did plenty of Star Trek watching for my homework, and
I did a little extra credit because I watched where
no one has gone before. Yeah, yeah, that's the one,
just because I was curious. I wanted to go back
and see the traveler stuff because of what happens in
(01:25):
Prodigy and it's really weird. It's it's a really weird
episode in general. But like, I still don't know what
the traveler is or can do or like, because he
just like in that episode, he just h he's just
there and like and and he definitely isn't like master
(01:48):
space and time. Like they're suggesting that Wesley is in Prodigy,
So I don't know where Daniel.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
It's dangerous to talk about energy like that. You're too
young to be thinking that.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
But that was it was fun to go back to Tandre.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
So yeah, what about you, Darren, how's your hashtag trick
number going?
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's been going good? Yeah, probably. I've been enjoying this season,
this final season of Lower Techs. Although I will say
not not to get in the details. I I didn't
really care for the Star based eighty episode. It felt like,
I don't know, it was felt really weird. I need
(02:34):
to watch it again. It was I just kind of
kind of fell all over the place. But then it
got back in the groove with the next episode. But
here know there, I'm yeah kind of it'd be interesting
to see how this they end this season, just because
it's kind of just going along. There's no real giant
universe ending arc, which is fine. I don't need that
(02:57):
in my trek looking at you, Reguard, but yeah, but
that's been good, and it's been cool seeing some people
have been receiving their the first edition of the the
company formerly known as Eagle Moss whatever whatever it's called.
Oh yeah, so they've been getting their Titan A's in
(03:20):
in the mail and looking at them and I'm like,
that's really cool. I saw someone posed it with their
Captain Shaw figure. He's holding it like a giant model,
which is kind of cool. So I still am going
to find a way to get the the segand class.
I'm not going to subscribe, but like, I don't care
(03:41):
after market, and I just need that one ship because
it's gorgeous.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
That feels like rubbing salt in the wound. But you know,
Kevin Captain Shaw RP. Yeah, because what happens to it?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
All that, and you know, I mean there's other Star
Trek characters that die we can still enjoy.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Yeah, but he was done dirty. He was done dirty,
and then they renamed his ship and it's like he
never existed. So I'm just saying that's all.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I'm just going to purge his music, change his registry number.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
It's hilarious. Uh yeah, no more deep dish on this ship.
It's New York style pizza. So this past two week
I went to the premiere. Wasn't anything fancy, But went
to the premiere of the Star Trek Voyager documentary to
(04:33):
the Journey, and I say, premiere's still not like one
hundred percent finished. So this is more for backers, this
because this was crowdfunded for those who don't know or
don't remember, because it's been several years at this point.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
You went to a premiere of a podcast that we
used to talk about. No exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
So yeah, and obviously, you know, since no one else
has seen it but me in this area, so it's
nothing for me to talk about though I have about
thirty minute die tribe in me, but I will say largely,
I mean, I thought it is good. You know, I
think for Star Trek documentaries, obviously we're all sort of
like the d S nine one is sort of like
set the tone what we leave behind.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, there's something behind, there's chaos on the bridge, there's
you know, yeah, there's captains Captain's chair. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:19):
Yeah, and so yeah, I'll say it's good.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You know, that's that's the short and sweet without anyone
you know, it's the whole McCoy's spot. I can't talk
to you about death without a frame of reference.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
But but it was good.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
It's just very behind the scenes, as I think I've
said in the chat, so like for those who are
like like the love story of Das nine and obviously
that's Ira doing it. So it's a little you know,
all the shore runners of Voyage are either I mean,
I hate to say it dead or Rick Berman and
so I mean, you know, and so it's been pretty
much you know, it's it's.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
It's Rick Berman in it. Do they even interviews? Okay, yeah,
he is.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It's he's usually sitting next to Brandon Braga, which I
don't know if that was so friend could guide him, right, who's.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Like the the lead as far as interviews, like who
is there is there one person that's kind of leading
the story narrative or is it just.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
A scattershot of it's a scatter shot, yes, because like
the director who was there after the you know at
the in London at at the event, was there was
a Q and a afterwards it was with the director, there's.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Q and A. I see what you did there.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, yes, yes, but he's been behind a lot of
the other stuff, like I think he did Chaos. Don't
quote me, but I think he did Chaos, and I
think he did the Captains because he's worked with Shatner
blah blah blah. And then there was also Ben Robinson
that's the name of the top of my head, who's right,
who wrote a book on voyage. I don't know if
it's out or coming out. And so that was sort
of like the setup. But anyway, I won't go on
(06:52):
about it because you know, until you've seen it, there's
no point in me talking about it.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
But it was it was good behind the scenes, but yeah,
it was sort of.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
There wasn't like a thorough line like d S nine,
the only thorough line which really wasn't. But it was
Garrett Wang, well I don't know, say his last night,
but Garrett doing a s A do a trip at
the SA, the European Space Agency trip at the essay
on there. I'm trying not to say vomit comment, but
the parabolic airplane zero G and so you got to
(07:24):
see him doing that. So that was kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
That's cool. One other Trek thing I did see. Uh,
they've been posting what was it, the trailer for First
Contact because I think we just hit the anniversary thirty
five years. There's something amount of time. It's been thirty
thirty years.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
I was a teenager when I saw it, and I'm
forty four, so you know too.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Well it's been well, it's ninety four, right, No, no, no,
that was ninety six. That's right, that's right. Anyway, all
that to say, uh, yeah, man, I love that trailer.
The you know of the borg a species, you know,
and it's well and it's the that weird nineties Trek
(08:13):
logo that came out, the oval with the chevron inside
of it.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
The generation's kind of one yeah and so but it's
like rolling past the screen almost looks like a halo ring.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
But it's the textured like borg cube texture, and then
it you know, yeah, it's just back in the days
where it's like, oh, okay, what do we need we
need a big voiceover voice. Oh yeah, in a world
where But someone pointed out that the other interesting thing
about the trailer is it has no shots of the e.
(08:43):
Its uses a few shots from generations so it does
not Uh, it's like, oh, we're not good. We're gonna
pretend that we still have the D but we don't.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So back in the day we need to put everything
on the trailer.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
There's definitely not everything in that, including the ending.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Now, oh and then one last thing before getting into it.
I don't know if all we all saw the is
it called generation or regeneration whatever? But the short put
up by the Rodberry folks with Captain Kirk, I haven't
watched watched it.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
I've seen like some bits, I just haven't had a
moment to uh to do that. But it looked. I mean,
the whole digital makeup is very clever. I think it's
a great way to go forward.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
It is weird. It's very weird.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
It's weird because it's been to me. It's funny.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
I mean, like you know, people, you know, whatever reaction
you want, it's fine, but like people like, oh, it's so.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Sad, and which it is. I mean, you know, the
end of.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
It is sad obviously, but like the lead up to
the end, I'm like, did I did I take something?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
And not note?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Because it's very bizarre, it's very strange. It turns out
that Sam whitwer Is actually plays Captain Kirk. Obviously they
swap out his face, but science fiction fans will know
sim where he's He's done a lot of a lot
of stuff. He was. He also does the voice of.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Mallah voice of Mall.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Yeah, and he also was in a Star Wars video game,
and he was in I think Battlestar as well. I
think I might be wrong on that one, but he's
been a lot of stuff. So I saw a behind
the scenes, behind the scenes shot of him in the
in the uniform.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Am I like that?
Speaker 3 (10:29):
That'd be fun. He'd be a good captain.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, if only they had already cast him first.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Strange New Worlds. Uh yeah. I say that because obviously
you know.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Darren if you haven't seen it, but because of course
my mind's trying to whatever can be abstract. I'm fine with,
you know, following an abstract journey, but my mind is
trying to put some like what's happening and they do too,
you know. Again, without going into I'll let you watch
it first about people past that you see from the
past or current, and then what.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
Are we seeing? Is this heaven? Is this is this whatever?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
But I think the one that got me was and
I forget how much where this was in Discovery. So
I don't know, Daniel, if you remember this or even
even seen this, But there was the guy alien in
Discovery that was shown as one of the least oh yeah,
Cold War Temple Cold War people. He has like the
(11:23):
season one t G uniform and he shows up and
so I'm like, what does that mean?
Speaker 3 (11:28):
So, oh he's from Discovery.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Well yeah, he was referenced in Discovery, but yeah, he's
shown to be the last during the Temple Cold War,
like the last time.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
So so I only watched this thing once because I
felt like that.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Was watch like fifteen times and I didn't.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
I didn't understand it at all. And I didn't know
like is this supposed to be a dream or like
you say, like like they're dead or because it's it's
very surreal and there's no there's no are any lines
at all. Maybe at the very end, I can't yeah, okay,
that's why. Okay, So yeah it's and it's like all
these random characters show up and I'm like, and they're
(12:06):
in different time periods, and I just was not clear
on what the heck was going on or what I
was supposed to take away from it. So I don't
even know what the backstory here is, Like, what was
the point of this? What was like the.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
I think it's just showcase and try you know this
digital makeup techniques, and because it was partly put on
by by Roddenberry, wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
It is because it's a continuation from I guess there's
three parts.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
I forget what the first part is, but we all
remember the one with this showed like the Enterprise d
being lifted off Radio three and then Spock visiting Kirk's graves.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
This is like a continuation of that.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Oh okay, okay, I guess okay, that's a little bit
better of a context for me, but it's still weird.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yes, because even that one doesn't make sense because that
one's sort of like a trippy thing that references a
crewman from the cage And you're like, I don't know
what story.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
I'm watching, but any No, it's all cool.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
I mean, this isn't a criticis it just it was
it's yeah, So yeah, Darren, you watch it and you'll
have to tell us what you think.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
The whole thing I have, I mean, I've seen parts
of it without the sound, which apparently is not.
Speaker 4 (13:13):
So just music.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
That's even weirder now, like so the whole thing has
no one talking.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Well, I assumed it was because.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Like me digitally like doing the talking would have been.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I did not see the latest Indiana Jones, but I'm
told from the beginning you have like young Indiana with
like old man Harrison Ford talking, and so I think
that was probably why.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
You know, because there's younger Shatner.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
But they do this, they do this with the aid
of AI like what they did do. I wonder why
not just do.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
The voices would be with that age that's true.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
I wonder if also Shatner had to sign off on this,
because I don't know if.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
He I assumed he was in it, but maybe I
don't understand how I.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Think I did hear him like participating in.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
It, not like the scan, because I get that they
did the younger guy for tos, but for generations Kirk,
I just assumed they used shat and you're in.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Oh, I don't think aged. I mean maybe I guess
maybe he isn't it. I didn't see anything about that,
but I.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Don't think he's in it. I think he was participated
though in the creation.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Okay, it's just a bizarre sort. I had actually completely
forgotten about that very the three things Phillip that you mentioned.
I'm like, I completely forgot that was even a thing,
and that was weird too, But this is like another
level because it feels like it's trying to say something
or trying to tell a bit of a story, and
I by the end, I'm like, I don't okay, Like
(14:37):
I saw some characters there was like Kirk dealing with himself,
and then it's just weird, just weird, just a bizarre thing.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Well, speaking of trippy, we are going to talk about
revisiting Star Trek Discovery. It seems weird to say because
it's off the air now, but with section thirty one,
excuse me, with Star Trek Section thirty one coming out
in a couple I guess months. I could say weeks
honestly at this point, because it's isn't it January? I
(15:08):
want to say that maybe I'm wrong, but you know, yeah,
fairly soon as we as as track November ends, it
won't be too long. And so I thought we would
kind of look back at the GEORGEO character, you know,
ostensibly Captain Georgio obviously rip, but you got you got
(15:28):
some time.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
It's January twenty fourth, so like two whole months.
Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yeah you said weeks, Well I mean amount of weeks,
eight weeks nine?
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Okay, true, but anyway, but yes, so I and I
don't know everyone didn't If you did it, that's fine.
So I rewatched all of season one disco just a
bit because I know, obviously this is the emperor, you know, mayor.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Georgia or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
But I wanted a taste of Captain Georgia and then
also to get where then emperors Georgio came from. And
even though at she in or she leaves I'm hand
quoting she leaves at the end of season one, you
know who knows where she goes, and then obviously she
comes back in season two.
Speaker 4 (16:13):
But I was just interested in what.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
How that character was sort of created and then should
then helmle her own what do we call this TV movie?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Special?
Speaker 3 (16:23):
TV movie?
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yeah, so I guess just general impress kind of like
a CBS logo, like coming out, like CBS special presentation
from like the nineteen eighties. Oh, if they started with that,
I would it would forget I would give it one
higher star, just the entire thing. If they started like that,
(16:45):
I know they want.
Speaker 4 (16:46):
But Daniel, what's your And you can either do captain.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Or Emperor or both, or well you have to do
with some of them, can't do neither. But what are
your impressions about the character that now is helming around
TV movie.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
I mean, I think this is not gonna be anything
different or new, but I mean I like, I like
Captain Georgia quite a bit. I mean, even though we
don't get a lot of her, you know, she's just
in that first episode or whatever, but I like her
well too. I like her a lot. She seems interesting,
She seems like a really competent captain other than the
(17:23):
fact that her first officer mutinies, and I would like
to see more of her. And then of course we
gets miror Georgia, and I I just, I mean, it's
to me, it's just lazy. It's just it's not even
like I guess maybe I'm gonna forget her name now.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
The lady that plays her, Michelle Yoh, Michelle.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
I wanted maybe she wanted like just like Patrick did.
Maybe she wanted to like to do the fun karate
kicks and stabby stabs and have a good time. And
maybe that's what it was. I don't know, but like
I would try, I would trade. I would rather have
a section thirty one show with her with Captain Georgia
instead of Empress Shorgo.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, I'm trying to set my mind to the way
back machine of you know what, gosh, what year was it?
Twenty twenty seventeen? Wow? Uh And just I mean, I
admire them for what they did in the season one,
for a lot of things they tried and just kind
(18:29):
of jump in. I mean again, this show brought star
Trek back into this third generation or second generation, third generation,
third generation, the next next generation that sounds like a
good name, but it I feel like there's your Seau
thing was kind of like a season two concept that
(18:52):
they shoved in season one, meaning we don't know Grseau.
It's a brand new series, a brand new person. We've
seen her, you know, in this on the Desert Planet
mission for like ten seconds and then she dies, and
now we're supposed to feel this oddity from you know,
(19:17):
from Michael's perspective of you know her mentor you know
and all of that, and and I think they do
an okay job of communicating that, but it would have
been so much more impactful, you know, in hindsight, like
if we had seen her and then it's kind of
makes me think of what second chances with Thomas Reiker,
(19:42):
you know, with that episode would not have worked as
like the fifth episode of season one, you know what
I mean, Like we would have been like, oh, yeah,
those different changes that we've not seen because we just
have seen three episodes of you. So all that to
say is I think the mirror ger thing would have
(20:03):
worked a little better if it had just come later,
and we also would have gotten a bigger dose of
Primes your Joe. But I think that was probably my
argument back in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
So I sort of feel like, like maybe if they
pushed it like halfway through the season, like like because
the first two episodes really try to do a lot
of world building and like it shoves too much in
way too quick. So like maybe if you get two
or three episodes or four episodes with Captain Georgia, like
the mutiny actually means something, you could put some sort
(20:40):
of context around it where it was for a good
reason or whatever other than Michael just hates Klingons. I guess,
I like, and then we would have I never will, yeah,
And I just I don't know it, just because I
see what you're saying, Darren, and I do think that
would help things, because it's like, Okay, well she's gone
(21:01):
and now and now when she comes back, we're supposed
to like follow Michael through her journey of like, oh
this is my mentor figure and I'm so sad about it,
and I don't know. I'm with you.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Well, and again you know, we're all throwing things at
the wall as if we're in a pitch meeting. You know,
this has been yeah, yeah, but uh, maybe it's like
you said, Daniel, like all the world building, but maybe
(21:32):
it just needed like one more pass of like simplification,
meaning you know, start on Discovery, have your Joe be
the captain of Discovery, and who passes, and then Lorca
comes in and he's also now an outsider, like like
it felt so strange that we were trying to learn
about the the shin Zu ship that we spent like
(21:56):
half a second with and then it was gone. Like
that was very odd, like because not only did I
not care about the ship or the captain as much
because we'd barely spend any time with them, so all
that to say, yeah, I mean maybe that's something that
could have been. And I know that that's how they
wanted to tell the story of this mutiny happens, and
(22:18):
then you know, six months later, you know, time passes,
but yeah, it was. It was a start, you know what.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Rewatching it and just sticking with the Captain Georgioe for
a second. I'm of two minds. One is to agree,
and I think we've all said this before. We'd probably
said it for the past eight years, six years, however
long it's been. But of like, oh, well, more Georgia
would be cooler. But when I'm watching it and show right,
yeah yeah, Captain Georgia, yeah yeah, And then watching it
(22:52):
again this time, I'm almost like I could lose the
first two episodes, like I know, this is this goes again,
show don't tell, but I think you could tell not
show and it all would almost be more powerful because
now that I've seen the mutiny and now I'm told
throughout this whole season, this whole big thing it was,
I'm like, it wasn't that big.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
I mean, you know, she pointed a phase writer. I
get it, but like it wasn't this whole big thing.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I almost like if you had not shown me, I
would have invented something so much bigger and betrayal of
like if it's just an oh, I betrayed my captain
and I mutinied and I caused the war, which again
we could I don't know if we want to religate
this first, like.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Did she cause the war?
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Like if Michael had.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Done nothing, had sat on her butt, the war still
would have happened. I'm just gonna throw that out there.
But anyway, but to be like it's one month, like
you could never have shown it, like maybe she has
a picture of Captain Georgia or she gets like the
what's the word I'm looking for the estate? Yeah, or
you know her estate that she she gets from her
(23:54):
bequeathment whatever you want to call it, and then we
see it and then finally, oh, and then we see
the Empress.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
I'm like, oh, that's the who is it the pick dad?
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Because like, oh, maybe they're just using Michelle Well for
a picture. It was like, wow, that's pretty cool, but
I don't know why. And then like there she is,
so yeah, I'm up two minds, like one I almost
could lose the whole thing. And then on the other hand,
as you say, Darren, maybe just do because they I
will say, fifteen episodes, I could see that's actually enough,
like ten's too short, and then twenty four too many.
(24:24):
But I mean they had enough they can play with
because there were times where they went slow and there
are times they went.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Quick and right. I forget the first season was fifteen,
but I mean in two parts. But still that's quite
a bit.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
And again this is those first two episodes, so then
it's really thirteen. But I think if we had had
maybe Georgia at least like one more episode. I mean,
I'm not saying make the pilot three, but again I
don't know, it would just have to redo it a
little bit. But just give her us a little more
Georgia because I think she does a great job because
she translates. Oh, this great character for like, I don't
(25:00):
know how much she is is she on screen in
this two epis it's like forty minutes or thirty minutes,
and like you totally get, oh, this is a good captain.
She's funny, but she's competent, and she's tough and da
da da da but I don't know.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
And then they replace her with a caricature.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
To me then with the Emperor, and again I'm not
just going to say anything new, but I'm still gonna
say it to me. The Empress or Emperor, however we
want to say it is just an embodiment of Michael's conflict,
like you know, we, oh, we needed someone because oh,
Michael has this big weight on her shoulders about betraying Georgeau.
(25:45):
Because we get the whole part in season one again
if you don't remember, you know where she gets in here.
Speaker 4 (25:49):
You know, she's you know, she's mutinied.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
The death of her captain that weighs in her six
months later, and then she has the prisoner. But then
after a while she gets that inheritance from GEORGIAU and
then she's having to deal with Saru, who's like, you know, Michael,
you're danger da da da da dah that thing. And
then finally the Empress comes, so now she's embodied again
with her captain, and then you have those two episodes
(26:14):
or three episodes, and then at the end she saves
the Emperor is about to you know, Lorca's rebels are
about to come at her and grabs the Emperor to
go back to the Discovery, to go back to her world.
So you know, it's all sort of like a physical
thing of like how do we embody Michael's emotional conflict?
And to me, that's the Emperor, I guess, you know.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I just want to say real quick about that point,
because this is a trope that start comes back to
again and again and again, is alternate versions of characters.
So like when Cisco's wife shows up in that episode
of of Duce's Nine where they go to the Mirror
universe and he's like conflicted about all of his feelings,
(26:56):
like and for for first all, I understand that like
that it's an interesting position to be in, like like,
there's no we can't even relate to it, right, we
can't relate to somebody dies and then all of a
sudden they show up again. Obviously that that would be
a weird position to be in. But also there's the
other part about it, which is that's not the same person.
That's a different person entirely. Why are you people following
(27:17):
for the same thing. Oh, Michael should not have this
emotional connection to this woman. She tried to put her
in jail like everybody else, and and that's it, Like
that's oh man, Like I now miss Georgia because she
looks just like Georgieau but she is not Georgia. She
is the anti George. I don't understand. This relationship tension
(27:39):
is not enough to last one episode, let alone like
the whole season or whatever, the whole series. It's like,
she's not the same person. That person is dead and
this is clearly a very different person with entirely different
experiences and everything. So I just I wish they would
stop going back to that well because it's it feels
lazy to me, like, oh, she's back. This this this
(28:00):
person that you did this terrible thing too, and now
you know you feel responsible for is back and now
you're completely responsible for her again, and it's like that's
not how it works, and that's just I mean, Mirror
Universe is silly anyways. But to me, I just I
roll my eyes every time we have to talk about that.
Speaker 2 (28:18):
And then Darren, I'm interested in your thoughts about this,
which again now you I don't know if you saw though,
I just have to remember. But because the Mirror episodes,
again I think they're only three up you think I
just watched it, but like they're not.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
They're only there's not that many yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Because it's like they're there da da And then but anyway,
they could have.
Speaker 4 (28:39):
Used and they do to a little bit, but they
could have.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Used this sort of mirror storyline with the Emperor for
Michael to work out these final Georgeau feelings because Mayor
Georgia has a relationship with her with maryor Burnham because
you know, if you don't remember, maryor Burnham went away
with Lorca, Oh he was a father to you and
then became something extra, which is obviously cutty. But anyway,
but then that Mayor Burnham betrayed her and so this
(29:06):
you know, blah blah blah blah. So you see what
they're doing, but then it works out at the end,
and then you sort of have where they're kind of
friendly at the end, and then oh they fought together,
and so it's kind of like in a way, maybe
she's healed it, Michael has healed it, and then she
beams away and then oh, the Emperor goes out in
the blaze glory. Except they're like, no, no, no, that's not.
Speaker 4 (29:28):
What we're going to do. We're going to take her
with us. So I mean that seems like obviously they
wanted to keep the character.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Yeah, So I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
I guess said it's Michelle Wu. I mean, I guess
you didn't want to lose her.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
But I get that, but it kind of comes down
to the core. I don't know. I guess it makes
me think about this kind of more modern sensibility that
is in a lot of television and movies of the
(30:08):
redeemable antagonists, you know, and which can definitely be done.
But I'm trying to think, like there's very few and
far mirror episode people that I think are redeemable. I
mean it kind of gets, you know, as time progresses,
(30:28):
you know, because like Smiley and you know, Bashir and
stuff like in DS nine, like they were slightly non genocidal,
you know, maniacs like, so it definitely had come a
long way from mirror mirror where like, oh God, like
these people are monsters, like this is this is so terrible.
(30:49):
So I mirror episodes at their best are holding up
a mirror to our main characters, and and by doing
so much mirror in halfway through the first season, again,
we're still learning who these people are we're still you know,
(31:13):
trying to so we don't know what which side is
the reflection, Like heav' forbid, our characters become less interesting
than their mirror counterparts. That could happen if we haven't
seen you know, a lot. So all that to say,
I think I think I liked the parts that they
(31:33):
did with the I love all of the things that
tried with the Mirror universe. I liked you know, gier
Joe being the Emperor. I liked Lorca's I think could
have been used even more in all of that reveal.
But I still think Prime Lorca needs to show up somewhere.
I think that'd be amazing. But yeah, it just it
(31:55):
was a fun world to play in, but there wasn't
enough contrast for me between like our I mean because
already like Discoveries, you know, it's what do they say,
not your Dad's Trek, But it already had a lot
of darkness to it, and so there wasn't as much
(32:18):
contrast with the mere universe in a way.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
And I just want to hammer on a point that
you just made. Though Darren Is is redeemable, you know,
like anti hero kind of the thing, and this woman
that they created that they write for. Not only like
is directly responsible for like you know, millions or maybe
even billions of tortures and deaths and whatever just from
(32:43):
her position. She she is also personally responsible for me,
like and takes like an obscene amount of enjoyment out
of it. Like she's clearly like.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
You know, I'm not gonna say this, yeah yeah, she's yeah,
yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Like she's like, you know, in a pretty evil person.
She's pretty irredeemable. And even if you even if she
can be quote unquote redeemed, which is kind of like
the whole point of the next season, I think with
her if I remember, like and even at the end,
she's like, nope, I'm still who I am and I'm
still who I want to be and whatever. Like even
if she was like saw the light and no longer
(33:18):
wanted or enjoyed murdering people, she should still go to
jail for the rest of her life and never ever, ever,
ever do anything. So like she's she's so cartoonly evil, uh,
and like they go out of their way to like
give her such terrible qualities, Like I don't know why
we even care about this person or talk about this
person you can't make me like her because she's like,
(33:41):
you can't do it because she's the worst. So I don't.
I'm just it doesn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
But she's brit at it.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Well.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
One thing that struck me watching the season in the
Marror episode is because you know, I don't remember the
exact episode, but anyway, it's the Marror episode or one
of the Mare episodes. She's with, Michael is with the Emperor,
and I forget how what they're talking about, but they're
kind of talking about the way of the mayor universe
and then the different people. Again I'm losing the context,
(34:13):
but anyway, but this is where it suddenly clicks for
everyone if you hadn't figured out already, because I remember,
if we'd figured out at that point where you know,
the episode itself is telling you and Michael is telling you.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Lorca, oh my god, uh is the mirror, Laurca.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
He was the whole time. And I'm not making fun
of that. That's fine, you know, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
But they're doing the click click click click click flash
flash flashback flashback, gears turning in Michael, Gears turning in Michael.
So then Michael, Oh my god Larca, and she's saying
that out loud to like the Emperor.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
I'm not quoting here, like, oh.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Oh, Larka, he's you know, he's a mirror, he's one
of yours. But then so then she's like oh again
not saying this literally, oh, I'll help you get him.
Then and I'm thinking to myself, why, like, like, okay, okay, okay, Lorca,
the mayor Lorca, Okay, why are you choosing the Emperor's
side over his side? How do you know you shouldn't
(35:11):
choose his side? I mean, okay, there's a rebellion going on.
Why do you know which side to choose in this
Mayor universe? Because you've been dealing with like from my side,
having watched this whole season, okay, because she's developed a
really close relationship with Lorca, even just as oh, that's
my captain now, my new captain, who I'm very and
you know, he's done a lot with her, obviously for
(35:32):
a nefarious well quote unquote nefarious reasons.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
I hid an agenda, we'll say that with her.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
But she's really there's a lot of things she says
to him and understands him and close and then this betrayal,
and she still goes from like loyal to betray to opposite,
I must now work against him and kill And I'm
like that was a wide like i could get like,
oh he's betrayed, but I'm not instantly going, oh hey,
I don't know who you are, mayor emperor, but I'm
not on your side to go get them.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
And I'm like, Okay, that was fast. Like why is
Lorca the bad guy?
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Like I'm not defending because again Daniel saying thing he's
a bad guy, but like, why is he the bad guy?
Speaker 3 (36:09):
The thing about Lorga too, is like they're way more
effective at making Lorca like interesting and likable and quote
unquote maybe redeemable or maybe not obviously, but like because
that whole beginning of the first season, when we didn't
know his secret, we obviously knew there was some dark
streak to him or whatever, and like maybe it was
(36:30):
just the war or whatever, but he was clearly like
there was something there about him, and it was really
intriguing and interesting. And then even when it was revealed,
like you said, it didn't feel overblown to me. It
didn't feel like like his character. It just sort of
fit the character that we knew, so it just made
a lot more sense than what they did with the
George Show.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, because I mean, I don't know. And again I
said this at the time. I remember, and even before
we knew who Lorca was, he's like, Okay, he's different.
He's definitely not good, but he's interesting. He has this
sort of I mean, chrisma might not be the right word,
but you are drawn to him and perhaps even knowing
you shouldn't be. But then, like, as I'm watching season
(37:15):
one now knowing this, and I mean, I don't know
what to say. Obviously you don'n't want the writers to
make it obvious, you know, like, oh, well, you know,
but it's hard to reconcile that he is one hundred
percent the mirror guy when you're rewatching season one, unless
he's a really good actor. And maybe he is, you know,
Gabriel Loki mayor Lorca, because like he wants to win
(37:38):
the war. Why, like, I mean other than because they
never make like you could explain that, which they never do. Oh,
he's just warlike and he but like he wants to
win the war and he's doing everything for the Federation
to beat the Klingons.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Why.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
I mean, I get that his agenda is for the discovery,
but that there's a way you could do that that
doesn't involve how he does things.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
That's the thing, Like I feel like that was possible,
Like I don't know, I would have loved Lorca in
like the first two seasons and then maybe the switch
to have happened in the second again just more time
with the character. But you're I think you're totally able.
You have to write this character. And I totally get
(38:22):
what you're saying, Philip, where I had the same thought
of you know, I remember when it first aired and
there's that scene I think we're sleeping with was it Cornwall, Yeah,
and you see his back, like his shirtless back, and
it's got like a triangle scar or something, and I
(38:42):
remember everyone being like, what does that mean? Like, you know,
you can't you can't have him sneeze and people don't
like dissect it like you have. Nowadays, you have to
be very subtle if you're hiding something, because people will
latch on to it, and then you know, people talk,
people communicate with other Star Trek fans all over the
(39:05):
world instantly, so that you have to play it a
little more close to the vest. But I also get
what you're saying about. Yeah, like again, what does a
mirror universe person do when they're hiding in our universe?
Like we've never really seen that, So are they disgusted
(39:26):
by showing compassion or or is he just a really
good actor of hiding it, you know, because the mirror
people we've seen, like, you know, they wouldn't or it
reminds me of like some of the Star Wars games
where you each your choices leads you down the light
side of the dark side path and sometimes if you
(39:47):
make a you know, you certain pass our close to
you because if you choose a bad thing then someone
won't talk to you and they'll leave and you're like, oh,
well now that side quest is closed because you know,
but or if you kill them then it's also closed,
so like you have no choice, so all that. Yeah,
So if he is being a mere universe person in
(40:12):
our time, yeah, there could be moments where oh yeah,
why did he why did he spare that ship? Like
is he really just that good at hiding? You know?
Speaker 3 (40:27):
I always thought that Lorca, like I thought he was
because we don't know how like this, how the swap happened, right,
So I was just assumed that he swapped with Captain
Lorca and that was the position that he was in,
so he was sort of dealing with the cards he
was dealt.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
I'll just refresh because if you haven't watched, and it
was the Baran was under well in the Marry universe,
the Barand was under attack, and I think he was
a rebellion at the rebellion at this point. So he
was being attacked I think by the Emperor's forces and
so he was getting beamed up from the planet where
he was with his you know, rebels or something by
(41:02):
the Baran. But they were in ion storm and dig
and that's how that happened.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Staying ions, remind me, is there a second person, uh,
mirror person that also has pulled over? Or was his
security officer just a bad person?
Speaker 2 (41:18):
That's what you were Gys saying earlier. I was I was
going in my head about like, you know, because you
were I think it was you Darren saying Discovery, you know,
not your father Star Trek.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
And I'm like, so Landry was the not mirror person
because because.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
We meet Mayor Landry if that's her name, like Marror Landry,
and I'm like, wait, because that would make more sense,
but no, because you meet Mayor, because you know, regular
Landry gets killed by like the third episode, but like
you see maryor Landry, You're like, oh, okay, this.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
One seems nicer.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
I don't know. Yeah, yeah, but we.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Don't because we never do see regular Lorca. We never
know where he.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Goes or I mean presumably dead, but obviously you know
they'll be, don't Yeah, I mean you know what, I
guess we never will probably meant him because since the
Discovery is over now, but maybe he'll be in the
U in the movie.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Lower Decks short track short.
Speaker 3 (42:10):
But you know, I was just thinking that, like, because
he found himself on the in starfleet as a captain,
he sort of has to work within those confines, so
like he you know, and he probably does enjoy power,
so he you know, as a captain, he has a
great deal and he also probably enjoys war. So he
found himself in a pretty fortuitous position. Uh, he just
(42:30):
had to probably have to discover it pretty quickly.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I'm picturing were Lorca, you know, is his first day
brought over and he's like, well, what is the mission
of this? You know, attack ship and they're like, uh, well,
we have to go complete our first census sweep of
the neutral zone. He's just like, ah, I hate this,
but it's like, wait, wait, what do you beat? A
(42:52):
war just broke out? How fortuitous? You know?
Speaker 4 (42:56):
That's that's funny.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
And then the way the last step said, I was
gonna say the season end, but it's only just the
last episode because it was funny. As I'm watching this
in my head because I'm like, okay, there's fifteen episodes
because I'm trying to fit, you know, watch this in
time for this podcast, and like I said, I hit
episode ten.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
I'm like, oh, we're still doing the Klingon store.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
But like episode ten is when they go they get
the figure out the cloaking stuff and they're gonna, you know,
pop over to Star of Fleet Command, win the war.
And then that's when they go to the Marre episodes.
So it's like eleven episode eleven. Ag I'm like, there's
fifteen episodes and they're just getting the married it looks eleven.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
But anyway, well in tamsaid was the beginning of the
second half in January.
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, yeah, but anyway, but been the last episode if
you don't remember, this is where for briefly they make
a deal. Admiral Cornwall and Seric make a deal with Uh,
this is Marriat Georgia. I met with Georgio. So she
pretends to be Captain Georgia for the mission and they
beam down to Chronos. But she Georgia has offered one
(43:54):
plan to the Discovery and so they think, oh, we're
here to do like a scan, but she's offered a
second plan to add or Cornwall and Sarah to basically
blow up the planet.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
And so then you have this.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
If you remember the Chronos, you know, uh, clingon ping
on the wall and you get what's his name? Uh
ah Tom, No, sorry, I can't remember the actor's name.
Who's been in all the Star Treks. Was in the
first episode of Star Trek, and who's in an every
Star Trek. He's the direct Ron Howard's brother, Clint Clint Howard, Sorry,
(44:30):
Clint Howard plays the Orion and gets you know, Chili High.
It's a great episode, right Anyway, The point is that
you have this final confrontation I say final for the
episode between Michael and Georgio, because again we're talking about
second chances and because Georgia wants to blow up everything
or you know, but has the bomb already in there,
and you know, Michael has a talker out of it.
(44:53):
But again, this goes back to what y'all are saying
with second you know, with this thing about why why
this character? Why the character? Why why do we still
have her round? And there's this whole notion And I
get what they're doing of second chances because Michael, you know,
began as a prisoner and now was given a second chance,
and now she's trying to give this you know, that
(45:14):
the whole redemption thing, like you were sitting there, the
second chance was your jau. But like Georgia basically just
says like yeah, whatever, I don't does she need a
second chance?
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, no she doesn't.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Not everybody should get a second chance.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
So yeah, because it kind of ends.
Speaker 2 (45:29):
I mean, the raiders obviously leave it open ended because
it's basically like, uh, Michael's like they gave you your
freedom anyway, they don't care, you know, you can leave.
Georgia's like bye and just leaves walks away. But yeah,
it's it's it just seems like a weird thing because
I get what they were doing Okay, we want them.
It's all about the embodiment of Michael's story. We need
actual characters instead of like the story. We need people
(45:50):
to be the story of, you know, the Michael second chance.
And oh now she's offering someone a second chance, who
I guess takes it?
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Ish.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
I mean, she doesn't blow up the planet, right, but
she never really cared about blowing up cronas. I mean,
like she was like helping the Federation to get her freedom.
I mean it was an opportunity, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
It wasn't like very manipulative.
Speaker 4 (46:12):
I mean, she's sort of like I don't give it.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Are there like I might be just unaware? Like you know,
I have seen Trek fandom, you know, about certain characters
and or hatred or you know, it goes both ways.
I feel like Georgia like fan, Like, are are there
people that are like huge fans of like mirror georgieau Like,
I don't know anywhere, And I don't know. I'm not
(46:35):
saying that they don't exist, of course, but I'm just
saying like, like is there a push for her? Like
do people really really love it? Or is it just
the fact that they have Michelle and she's you know,
she won an Oscar I heard around this time, and
then of course they wanted to keep her on and like,
but like other than that, like this character specifically because
because I was just curious, I just haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Yeah, yeah, that I had that same vibe where yeah,
with Giorseau and Lorca, because at the end of the day,
I'm like, Okay, I like these actors and actresses, but
all the time I'm spending with them, I mean, mine
is a tiny bit for Gergeau, I'm with this terrible person,
(47:17):
and so it's like I don't want to root for them.
I don't want them to be, you know, my favorite
character in that way. And so it's like, yeah, it's
like again, we how many times have we said, oh,
we wish we had more of Prime Lorca or we
saw you know, Cause or or Prime or not Prime, yeah,
Captain Georgau. So it's like, yeah, instead we spend all
(47:44):
this time with these these mirror people I don't know,
just wanting more, and maybe that's just what they want.
They want you wanting more. And then you come back.
Speaker 2 (47:55):
Because and I'm not you know what, obviously are going
to be jumping up and down about section thirty one.
Maybe we'll all be surprised.
Speaker 4 (48:03):
Who knows.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
But I just wanted to say for the Georgio, I
mean she is and always has been, even in season
two and season three when did she leave four anyway,
season four three three, I mean she's the mother figure
obviously of Michael, and just like Captain Georgieau was and
her of course then we have her actual mother. But anyway,
(48:24):
that's like her purpose. I mean, it's a very limited
purpose for that character to serve. I mean, she doesn't
really have any other once needs other relationships. It is
just to Michael, that figure. And so to then be
in section thirty one without Michael, and it's like, what
is this character's purpose because that's all she's ever meant
is to be that Michael dynamic.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
It's so funny, Philip, because you just mentioned the Red
Angel stuff, which I had completely forgotten about that with
her actual mother, and I'm like, my goodness, like you say,
all they do, all these characters, these all these really
long story arcs and stuff. All that it amounts to,
even though we're presented is this is universe ending stakes.
All it really is about is Michael's character and her
(49:05):
relationship to that character, and it's like I don't know.
And I was also just thinking too, like like like
what we were saying before, but it not being your
father's Star Trek like and Darren's point about these mirror characters,
and I don't want to look up to these mirror
characters because like in traditional Star Trek, like our characters
are super competent, well meaning people who are trying to
(49:26):
do good in the universe, and like that's it for
its own sake, like they're literally just trying to go
out and help and explore and do all these lotty goals.
But now in this sort of storytelling, you're you're giving
us these characters who are not just flawed. They're not.
It's not like they're you know, oh he has a temper.
It's like, oh, he's a mass murderer who will eat
(49:47):
your first officer, you know, as suit you whenever they can.
So it's like I don't understand that, Like it's such
a shift. It's really really hard to like adjust to it.
And yeah, if you like the traditional sort of Star
Trek we do.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
Yeah, and that's a I think it's always a balance
that you have to have in Star Trek. I mean,
I think of DS nine and which definitely at its time,
like was pushing a lot as far as the types
of I mean, these were way more flawed characters, but
(50:23):
at the end of the day, and maybe because it
was like part Starfleet, part crazy aliens on the Station,
I think that helped a lot, because I can't picture
like Ensign Garrick getting away with any of the crap
that he pulled. You know, in Starfleet it's like, no,
but at the end of the day, well, and the
(50:46):
little country exits, But at the end of the day, Yeah,
all of your people were competent and and struck and
did the right thing at the end of the day
for all of their you know, moments, and that's what
(51:06):
made it Star Trek. And so as Star Trek progresses
and I get wanting to write more complex characters and
flaws and things like that, and you know, I definitely
think I mean, we've seen enough interviews about TNG and
stuff where they're like, how do you write for the show?
You can't have interpersonal conflict, and you know, they got
(51:29):
their ways around it eventually, but yeah, but then there's
a way to go too far where like oh yeah,
this character is interesting, but they're not a star Fleet
off like I'm to give Lorca like that's this is
a terrible, mass murdering person. Like I don't want to
root for them or for them to be the hero.
(51:53):
So all that to say, you know, be interesting to
see what we get in, Like I'm excited for start
Starfleet Academy, you know, because again now that one they
can not skirt the line that's not the right phrase,
but they can get away with more in a personal
(52:13):
conflict because they're becoming Starfleet there, and they're also approaching
it as kind of like it's kind of weird. It's
it's almost like and now we're going to reactivate West
Point from seventeen seventy five and teach you the ideals
we had, Like it's it's going to be interesting. Now.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
There's a really easy way to do that is you
have your main character be the first Zorbappian in Starfleet
and it's a it's a it's a program where they're
you know, being introduced to the you know everything and
they so they have to learn from one oh one
like Federation one oh one.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
And well, but that's the thing is everyone is going
to be Federation one O one, because that's the whole
point is that it's the past teaching the future. So yeah,
it could be it could be very interesting. But like
my to hit my point, they can have more inter
personal conflicts, they can have fights, they can have disagreements,
they can have you know, all of that because they
(53:09):
are becoming Starfleet and what I think most people expect
those characters to be.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
They can get him domb job brawls.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
We gotta have some dom Jack guys. We gotta have
it cool.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
Yeah, And I mean, last thing I'll say before were
closing up here because I I just thought it was
an interesting contrast because and you know, I mean maybe
I'm obviously saying which Mayor character I likes more, but
it was like, once you got the Mayor reveal about Lorca,
he became instantly dispensable. And I'm like what I mean,
I'm not saying, don't have him get killed or whatever,
(53:47):
but like give me an episode with the consequences.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
You know.
Speaker 4 (53:50):
It was sort of like He's.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Like, ah ah, sorry about that, Michael, you know, you know,
respect respect, and then she you know, a burstabs in
the back and like that, Okay, I mean like it
would have been cool to get a little bit more
than that, because just because you were like, you know,
it's like the terrible analogy would be like it's a
will they won't they? And then when they get together
then you stop the story ends. I'm like, you know, oh,
(54:13):
without a puzzle box, this Lorica character is nothing.
Speaker 4 (54:16):
I'm like it was I could have had more.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
I mean I'm not saying seasons more, but you know something.
But anyway, but you know, then we get Emperor Forever
in a day.
Speaker 3 (54:27):
No, what are they going to do? What are they
going to do in the movie? Like like a quick
prediction just because we've just talked about like she shouldn't
be redeemed, Like what is she going to die in
a blaze of glory at the end of that movie?
Or is like because presumably this way is the last
time we're going to see her, that.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
Kind of makes sense. I mean, as it being a
movie versus a show, which is more open ended, maybe.
Speaker 4 (54:52):
I think they'll leave it open ended.
Speaker 2 (54:53):
Yeah, they'll never like you think Steretrek's going to be like, no,
we don't ever want Michelle to come back.
Speaker 3 (54:58):
No, you can always have them back. Well, like what
they put her back in the Mirror universe. I guess
then that's my point like with that, like she just
goes and then she come back or whatever if you
really want to.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
This is a terrible analogy, but it makes me think
of like Blue Beetle, you know, with where the DC was,
and it's like, if you like it.
Speaker 4 (55:17):
We'll keep it. If not, we'll never speak of it again.
Speaker 1 (55:19):
You know right well?
Speaker 4 (55:25):
That that's uh, you know, And stay tuned for section
thirty one.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
In two months, everyone a matter of weeks, as some saying.
Speaker 3 (55:33):
Eight weeks is still an amount of weeks.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Everything's in an amount of weeks if you think about it.
But I'm just saying after four it becomes months.
Speaker 4 (55:40):
Dan, just just wait for a Trecuary and.
Speaker 3 (55:43):
Then we got to get through Trix number first.
Speaker 2 (55:50):
And until one week from now we will talk Star
Trek even more. I'm Philip Gilphiss, I'm going to approve,
and I'm Darren Moser stranded here on City Offer three
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