Ep. 420: Kefla Hare

Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
What is up? Everybody? Welcometo Challenge Mania. This episode is brought
to you by an event coming upwhere you're gonna get to meet our guests
today as well as Olivia Trischelle,Michelle, Mark Long. We've got a
lot of fun folks in the houseat Challenge Mania Live Atlanta on June the
eighth. And also joining us isour guest today. You didn't come for
meet you came for d And alsowith us today is one of the stars

(00:36):
of the Challenge All Stars. Hehasn't been on the Challenge since the nineties
and he is back stealing hearts leftand right from America. Keith La Harris
here, how are you, man? Man? I'm good man. How
appreciate you guys have him to hearman? That sounds crazy the nineteen hundreds,
you know, it was last timeI was on the city. Yeah,
man, it's nice to finally meetyou kind of in person. I

(01:00):
feel like this even doing it likevia FaceTime meeting people is like more formal,
you know. Ever since COVID andthe zoomshe we've exchanged text messages.
This this this podcast has been likea long time coming. Obviously All Stars
four was like like it took themfrom the nineteen hundreds to actually get here.

(01:26):
It feels like ancient times. We'vebeen waiting for this thing, for
your arrival. And dare I say, you feel like the bright light of
this season? Do you feel likethe bright light of this season? Because
for me, I feel like I'mrooting for a few people. But I
don't know if I'm rooting for anybodymore than I'm rooting for you. No,

(01:49):
I appreciate it. Man. WhenI when I spoke with the with
the producers, when they was like, yo, we want to cast I
said, now, y'all understand,I don't bring drama, you know.
Oh, I said, what I'mgonna give you is you know, a
genuine Southern dude. You know,I'm a I'm a I'm a compete,
I'm anna laugh a lot, andyou know that's that's just me, you

(02:12):
know, And so God, youknow forbid that they wanted more drama.
But at the same time, likeyou said, dude, this is things
like what the people wanted. Theywanted just some some regular cat on the
screen man who just you know,brought him a little laughter and stuff like
that. So I gave it tohim. You know, and I appreciate
the love has been crazy. Well, it can't all be drama. And

(02:34):
I don't know how much you knewabout the people you were going to play
with. Now, clearly you dohaving play with them, But between Lee
Roy and Kim and Kara and Jasmineand Ayana and Janelle, Lord knows,
there was enough drama in the housewhere, like you said, a good
old Southern boy was perfect to haveas some comedic relief and maybe a nice
tone setter when everybody else is goingfor the juggular every day. What was

(02:57):
it like walking into that? BecauseI mean, dare I say and you
can carre me? You know,back when you played on road Rules and
your initial Challenge run, it wasa bit more lighthearted back then, not
to say there wasn't a fight ortwo and whatnot. But when you came
back and you knew you were comingback to a new generation and for a
bunch of people that had prior relationshipswith one another, were you caught off
guard? And how hot and heavyit got so soon in this season?

(03:19):
No, Because you know, I'veseen a few episodes here and there of
the you know, the Flagship Challenge. I saw the very first All Stars,
you know, all the way through, and you know, I kind
of knew what to expect, andlike I said, that's I knew that
was one of the reasons why Ihaven't been back, you know, because
I don't bring that drama, youknow, and you think about all the

(03:40):
reality shows now out there. Ifyou don't have the drama, you're not
getting the ratings, you know.And so when it popped off, I
was just like, Okay, hereit is. And like if you kind
of pay attention to when drama ispopping off, you'll see me in the
background eating a lot, you know. I'm just kind of like watching the
scene, like, you know,I'm eating the when Ayana's going off,

(04:01):
I'm talking to Cyrus eating a sandwichand played or something. When her and
Nell was going off on each other, I was eating like a securuterary trade.
So I'm always sitting back, youknow, watching the action. But
now I wasn't surprised, you know, I was just waiting on the time,
you know, like three two,one, bamn, here it goes.
Okay, so this is what isabout. You know, we call

(04:24):
that like popcorn time. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had
a lot of that popcorn tame.Yeah, it's like it's like the TV
show is like happening in front ofyou. Yeah, yeah, no doubt,
no doubt. So we look,we know you're gonna be doing a
lot of interviews this cycle for AllStars. A lot of them are gonna
maybe be episodes specific or at thevery least season specific. But here at

(04:46):
Challenge Mania. We've been doing thispodcast since twenty seventeen, towards the end
of twenty seventeen when we started thispodcast, and we've had almost everyone under
the sun on before, but youare one of the few, my friend,
who have never come on the podcastand the first time we ever have
people on. We like to goall the way back. We like to
get the casting story, the originalstories of the road Rules and the real

(05:08):
world versus Road Rules Challenge and allthat good stuff. Derek's got a jersey
on that might bring up a subjectmatter we'll talk about. So I don't
know how this jersey though. Doyou know this jersey? Who is it
as Kobe? Yes? Yeah,so let's not let let's not get let's
not get that too quick, becausewe're gonna get there. If you guys
are listening to this and we willand we will get back to the drama.

(05:29):
I still want to hear keep lesstake on all the drama because because
it's like it's like we could talkto the people that were there, but
the people watching it really know theanswers. But these are our favorite interviews
with people like you, the ogs, the original stories. You created this
road, you paved this road.Yeah, season two Real World versus road

(05:55):
Rules. But we want to goeven further back. We want to go
back to your Road Rules casting story. What brought you there? Why did
you want to try out for roadRules? What was your history with road
Rules? We're going back to whatninety if you did the challenge at ninety
nine? When was road Rules seasonsix down under in Australia? When was

(06:18):
that eight nineteen ninety eight? Yeah, and so so how it popped off
was I was at my ACEBCU AlabamaState University in Montgomery, and I was
working for student activities as my workstudy job. And so I answered the

(06:38):
phone and it was Kenny Hull onthe phone, and he said, Hey,
we're coming to your city and wewant to see if you could,
you know, give us a toolaround your campus because we want to interview
kids for the Real World road Rulesreality show that we had, you know,

(07:00):
MTV, And so I was like, sure, I'll give you a
tour. And I said, Idon't know much about the show because I
didn't have MTV. You know,grew up in my city. My city,
we had a church that uh shutit off. They was like,
we can not play this, youknow in this city. You know,
back in Foley, Alabama, whichis near Gulf Shores, near the beach,

(07:21):
the smallest seat. They was like, no, we will not play
this. So they shut off MTVunless you had like satellite, and so,
uh, I didn't really know muchabout it. And so I said,
yo, I'll give you a tour. And Kenny and I forgot the
uh the other young lady's name,who is who is Willie little Westbrook or

(07:42):
something? Yeah, yes, yes, And so they came to get the
tour and I was showing on peoplearound KMDLL. I was like, Okay,
this cat right here got a lotof drama. This girl right here,
she's you know, real fly.Everybody likes her and so you and
I wasn't throwing myself in the hatat all because I knew, I said,
I don't have no drama. Isaid, the only problem I got

(08:03):
right now is you know, uh, I said, bad credit. I
said, that's the only problem Igot right now in college. And other
than that, you know, wejust kept showing them. And so we
were sitting at a bar that nightand they was hearing this story about a
They was hearing the story about amascot getting thrown out of a game during

(08:24):
the football game. So they wastalking about, Yeah, the two mascots
they were fighting and the National Guardcame on the field. They threw the
flags and all that stuff, andso they were like, yo, we
need to find out who that mascotwas. And so all of a sudden,
the dudes was that was talking aboutthey turned around and saw us.
They was like, Keifler, tellthem about how you got thrown out the
game you when you was fighting amascot. And I was like, ah,

(08:46):
shoot, I was the mascot formy university and so, dude,
you got more to the story youneed to tell us. And so I
did my little fifteen minute interview.And it was so crazy because once I
did my fifteen minute interview with themat the hotel, they left. They
gave me a call back probably likefour days said hey, we want to

(09:11):
fly you to LA but I hungup on them because I was like,
I thought it was my roommates playinga trick on me. So then they
called me back. It was like, yo, Keifer, this is Kenny.
I said, like Kenny, whowas just he said, yeah,
this is me. I said,Oh, my band, dude, ain't
mean to hang up on you.They flew me to LA. I missed
all of the major interviews, allthe different cuts and all that kind of
stuff. And it was up betweenI was on the board between road Rules

(09:37):
and Real World. Well for realWorld I didn't have the drama, and
so for road Rules I was moreathletic. And they was like listen,
go ahead and put him on roadRules. And he from the country and
at the time they was going toAustralia and I didn't know that. So
they was like, yo, puta country boy in Australia, he'll do
well in the outback and that theregoes man. That's how I got on.
Were the people in your community whenthey found out you were going to

(10:01):
do this show that's on the EvilNetwork that they're blocking out of the satellites
and stuff like that. How didthey feel about that at first? Well,
my mom and dad was upset becauseI had to withdraw from school.
Wow. Yeah, because it waslike the spring semester I had to withdraw
from school. I was like,I'm not going back to school. My
pap was like why. I said, well, I'm gonna shoot this TV
show. And you know, fromthe Deep South, it's like, you

(10:22):
know, they don't believe because theydon't know nobody else that has done anything
like that. You can piss onyour college education and all this stuff.
Man, you better stay your buddin school. So I told my grandma
and I said, mother, I'mgetting ready to go film this show.
And she was like what kind ofshow? When I was like, I
said, was the show? Youknow? Da? Da da? I
don't know where I'm going. Idon't know you know exactly when I'm leaving.
And she was like, broke downon the ground. Oh my baby,

(10:45):
finna do espionage. She's trying tosay espionage, he gonna be a
spy when ain't gonna ever see himwith me? And oh Lord, what's
gonna happen to my baby? PleaseJesus. So she put prayer oil on
me and all kinds of stuff.Man, had the ladies come over and
pray for me. I'm thinking thatI was gonna be, you know,
going forever. And when I finallycame back, my parents still didn't believe,

(11:09):
you know, believe it was legit. Until when I came back,
he was talking to one of hissecretaries and he mentioned that I was doing
some show called Roll Rules, andjust so happened. The secretary's daughter was
in there talking to her and shewas like, oh my god, I
love that show. It's amazing.And so my dad was like, oh,
so this is a legit show.She was like, yes, this

(11:31):
is an amazing show. So theyinvited my pops over to watch the premiere,
and my dad and mom watched it, and they was like, oh,
so he did do something legit.Like my family and I weren't kind
of speaking, you know, becausethey thought that I was like pissing off
away my college, you know,education. And so when they finally started
and showed it, the community wasbehind me, the city was behind me.

(11:54):
So it was crazy, man.But for a minute, everybody thought
I was going off to do somekind of spy episode on my own.
Know what they was really thinking aboutbut it was it was crazy. Yeah.
When I got chosen to do roadRules, my dad was like,
no way, this kid is goingto get into all types of trouble.

(12:15):
Yeah, this is not good.I was like, to be fair.
Yeah, yeah, Well I guess, yeah, I guess I had a
Yeah, I guess my dad.I was. I was watching some wrestling
Dark Side of the Ring yesterday andand my my wife is like, like,
what what why do you watch this? You know, I'm like,

(12:37):
I grew up watching these people andthen and then, but I also said
my dad used to say, turnthat ship off, turn these fucking idiots
off and polish right, like,and I think that he knew that,
like something about whatever these people aredoing on TV are going to like possess

(13:00):
my kid. Like my kid hasthese mannerisms. Yeah, he has this
like these character traits that are goingto make him do what they're doing on
TV. Right, So I'm curious, like, do you think that you
also had some of those character traitsfor your Grandma was like oh yeah,

(13:22):
oh no, him out there badidea, oh hand down because like you,
when you grow up in the country, man, there's nothing else to
do. But I ain't gonn wannasay, get in trouble, but get

(13:45):
in good trouble. Like my brotherand I my older brother like for what.
He knocked me out one time,like over I think it was like
twenty six hours. Nobody knew Iwas knocked out but him. Of course
I didn't know because I was knockedout. So he brought me in the
house, changed my clothes, putme in the bed, did my chores

(14:05):
the next day, changed my clothes, then switched me around in the bed
to make it look like I wastaking the nap. And then when I
finally came out of it, becauseI came out of it, it was
on a Thursday. He knocked meout and I can't because he like like
snatched me off his bike and Ifell off of the bike and hit the
road, the pavement. And sowhen when I woke up, I'm thinking

(14:28):
I'm gonna watch the Cosby Show becauseI'm thinking it's Thursday. And my parents
were like, no, we watchedit last night, and so I was
like, nah, I didn't watchthe cot I said it's tonight, and
so he looked at me across theroom He's like, don't say nothing,
So I'll go back in the roomlike that. What happened? He said,
dude, you were knocked out.I said, what if I was
dead? He said, now youwere breathing, So I knew you were
straight. And so little stuff likethat that my parents were knew about me

(14:50):
and my brothers. They was like, this cat gonna go away, he
gonna do something crazy. He'd donejumped off the house, off the second
floor of the house before trying todo the Marrit Popp thing, thinking it
was real, you know, allkinds of stuff we used to do,
man, And so my parents wereafraid, like, yo, something's gonna
be wrong with this kid if hegoes out here and do this little what
he calls a mission or chiallenge deal. So, yeah, you're definitely right.

(15:13):
They were kind of afraid that whateverI'm watching and whatever I'm doing in
the country, that if I gooff there out to whoever knows where I
was going at the time, andsay, he may not come back.
Yeah, yeah, I was.I was literally just telling my wife stories
about just like growing up, Iwould do things like that, like like
I would like sit on top ofthe refrigerator and watch like Christmas cartoons and

(15:37):
like like way before I should beclimbing up on refrigerators. I was climbing
like garage roofs, way before Ishould be climbing. I was jumping out
that second that that uh, thatfirst floor window, first floor, I
mean the second floor window, thinkingthat like this is fun stuff. But

(16:00):
yeah, and then I have tokind of peel back and be like,
man, dude, you really werekind of crazy way before your time.
YO. Tell us about the mascotfight. Oh okay, So we were
playing this school called Arkansas Pine Bluff, and you know what mascot rule is,
you don't take your head off,you know, in public, because

(16:21):
little kids may be like, ohmy god, the tiger is half human,
you know. But we were ahornet and so when we got there,
I saw him walking around with hishead under his arm, and I
was like, oh, we're gettingready to mess up, you know,
this guy, he's getting ready tobe tough. And you always when you
meet the mascot, you say,hey, you know the mascot fight,
right, you say, okay,so I'll win the first quarter, you

(16:41):
win the second quarter, I'll winthe third quarter, or we come together
in the third quarter or whatever,and we show people that we're friends,
you know, like that, soyou always coordinate your fight. So I
get over there and I talk tothe dude. I say, hey,
man, you know how you wantto coordinate this fight. So he looked
at me and said, man,fuck you in this fight. I said
it all right, Bud, I'llsay, okay, well, well you

(17:02):
know, I'm just trying to worksomething out with you. So he didn't
want to work nothing out. Sonext thing you know, I'm over on
my sideline and with my cheerleaders andhe comes around. There's their uh stands
is like right on the field.So he comes under the bleachers and under
the bleaches a little opening and herushes through and I'm not evening just because
I'm looking at the game. Herushes through off sudden tackles me, and

(17:26):
when he tackles me, like we'relike, he kind of knocks us into
the field, and I'm like,dude, man, what do you doing?
I said, this supposed to befor the kids. He ben said,
fuck you and the kids. Isaid, so he's for real.
So I stand back. I pushhim ball. I stand back and we
like square it up and he chargesme and I and I like kick him
in the throw, I kick himin the throat and then I catch him,

(17:48):
man, and I throw him onthe ground, and I'm just punching
them. I said, man,I told you this supposed to be for
the kids, for the kids.And I'm like toking them, punching them,
and like, are you hear mycheerleaders going crazy? Hit a crowd
going crazy? And all of asudden, I look up and I see
the flags going up. And Ilooked and a man, dude, we're
on like the forty five yard linein the middle of the game, like

(18:11):
the players and everything. They gettabed on this stuff. And then now
they are around us, and sothey pulled us apart, and the National
Guard, which was there so calledsecurity there they come and grab us and
they take us away. Man,And I'm thinking, I'm getting ready to
get kicked out of college. Andso I have a meeting with the president
of the university on Monday that Monday, and I go and meet with him

(18:32):
and he sits me down and I'mlike, damn, gonna go home.
And he said, well, letme tell you this. He said,
I saw everything that went down.He said he was dill gresser. But
I want to tell you thank youfor at least letting us win something that
day, he said, got anass kick in the game, but at
least mascot won that fight. Ohmy god, that's awesome. And it

(18:52):
was your unofficial audition for Road Rules, right right, you're gonna have that
story in the back pocket. Yeah, that's what it was. And I
didn't even I wasn't intended on onon audition. And there's some cats man
sitting by us. They spoke ofthe story, and then that's what got
me on man. But I'm no, I'm no drama Keifla right. And

(19:15):
then and then twenty five years later, the first thing you tell him,
I'm no drama Keifla right. Youknow, But that's how it is.
You know what Tupac said, Iain't no killing, but don't push me.
Revenge is like the sweetest joy nextto Girton. Yes, we've got
uh, we've got your cast listfrom Road Rules down under in front of
us. Here we got Chadwick,Christina Pazinski, who's going on to an

(19:36):
illustrious comedy and podcasting career, yourself, Piggy Thomas, who we actually had
last year in Pittsburgh. She showedup as a surprise guest with Susie Meister,
another one of your fellow cast mates, uh for our live show.
So we've spent a great amount oftime with Susie, and then we got
to spend a little bit of timewith Piggy last summer, and then Shane
McBride, I want to get youa question from challengemaniacs dot com. That's

(19:57):
where you can submit questions for thepod cast. A couple questions about your
cast here from Kim. Kim says, which of your road Rules castmates are
you still in touch with? Andwhich of your former road Rules castmates would
you like to see on All Stars. I'm still in contact with Susie,

(20:17):
of course through social media, ofcourse, but then also i went to
Philadelphia for a wedding, I meanPittsburgh for a wedding, and we linked
up and had lunch and everything.But she and I we communicate quite frequently.
The growth of our friendship is youcould not see it on camera,

(20:38):
Like if you saw us on ourseason, you would you would not have
thought we would have been as closeas we are now. I'm closer to
her than any one of my castmates. I love the way she has grown.
Just watching her as a person,Oh my god, it is it
is crazy. I mean to seeonce she got out in the world and
saw so many different things. AndI think she also is one of the

(21:03):
ones that has understood me better thananything anybody else, you know what I
mean, and which has allowed meto kind of appreciate her even more.
I speak to Christina every now andthen on social media. Shane, he's
he's not on social media as much, you know. I chat with all
of them, you know, onsocial media, but like Susie, uh,

(21:25):
she and I are conversation on socialmedia or are more in depth.
Piggy, I haven't spoken to her, man, dude, I want to
say since the show, you youknow, I would love to speak with
her, just to see how everyeverything is going with her. I would
love for us to have a reunion. We talked about that once before me

(21:45):
Christina and Susie talked about trying toget a reunion, but nothing came of
that. But I would love tosee Susie on the All Stars. I
would love to see Christina on there, and I mean, it gives you
ain't some love. Shane hasn't beenon you know anything you know like that,
and that dude is hilarious. Heis, I mean, he is

(22:08):
just naturally funny man. I wouldlove to see him on there, Chadwick.
Chadwick will definitely give people, youknow, run for their money because
that dude can do anything. Playthe guitar, the piano, karate,
draw, cook whatever, you know, you name it. He can do
anything. But definitely, I saymore so than anybody else. I would
like to see Susie Shane and Iwould like to see us three together and

(22:32):
see what happens with that. Ithink that would be crazy if she Susie
Shane and myself with it. Andif not, that just me and Susie.
You know, I think we'll givepeople a lot of content. So
Susie, Like we've been kind oflobbying for Susie too, but Susie has

(22:52):
kind of I don't know, howhow do you say this? I think
she has completely broke that. Shecould really broke down the fourth wall.
Are you familiar with the fourth wall? So the fourth wall is like you
know how when we went on roadrules and they told us not to talk
to the sound people and the usersand like to like keep that that wall

(23:15):
there's a wall there, there's aninvisible wall there. We're not supposed to
communicate with them. Well, shedid a challenge back in I don't know,
two thousand and eight nine, somethinglike that, where she started talking
to one of the sound guys atthe rap party and she ends up marrying

(23:36):
the sound guy. Yeah. Yeah, she completely kicked down that wall.
I feel like she just drew likea she cut like a little glory hole
in the wall for the boom forthe boom mic. He's a sound guy.
Come on, get your head outof the gutter, Keifla. But
yeah, you really think that's thereason. You think that's the reason we
haven't. I think no, Ithink that's the original. No. Well,

(24:00):
I mean Keith you know this,if you know kept in contact with
her. She is one of thepioneers of digital media, podcasting, all
that stuff. We owe a lotof Challenge Mania's success, especially initially to
her and Adam, her husband,and their guidance and helping us get sponsors
and things like that and back whenwe started, but also when she started,
they had kind of I think cutties, not just with Susie,

(24:22):
but you know, Keithla and anyonewho had sort of taken more than four
or five six years off, Likethey went found Derek after taking seven years
off. He was working in theoil fields. Then they brought him back
for a season called Dirty thirty.But other than you and maybe Veronica,
like, they weren't doing that somuch until All Stars. Now, I
do think with All Stars, likeI think Susie is is just as likely

(24:42):
to get brought back in as anybody, especially when you include the Adam thing.
But I thought where you're going witha d is that Susie is very
transparent, especially on her podcast.So yeah, she might be a little
too transparent for their liking in thatduring the casting process she'll flat out like
the text message from the casting personbeing like here, And then on April

(25:03):
third, they said, Susie areyou available for All Stars? I said
yes, I would be delighted.Then here on March fourth, I follow
up, no response, blah blahblah. You know, and and they
don't necessarily love when you do that. I actually still don't think that's the
reason. And I predict we actuallywill see Susie eventually on a future's future
season All Stars. So that's justmy especially with Sarah kind of on board

(25:25):
now with the whole and like Igotta give Like I don't know if you
know this either, but her partnerin Crime, her podcast, partner in
Crime Brain Candy Podcast, Sarah Rice, who's also a two time Challenge champion
and Challenge Mania Hall of Famer,Sarah Rice. I think one of the
deals with getting Susie and Sarah togo on is they want to go on

(25:45):
together. Susie doesn't care, Susandoesn't care. But well, the one
stipulation for Sarah was that the Challengeneeds to offer therapy. What's it called
after care? Want right wants thatto be available. She also if they
listened to the Pittsburgh Show, shealso she wants a psychiatrist or a psychologist

(26:07):
on site now evalue anything she's got. She's got pretty high bar, I
think for this when it comes toreality TV. But I know they offer
it. I know they offer therapybecause when we were when we was talking
in our in our thing, theysaid, you know and like the interest
interview and all that stuff, theywas like, well, you know,
we do give therapy for you afterthe show, you know, you know,

(26:30):
beyond just continuously. And I waslike, that's pretty dope, you
know, especially since a lot ofpeople are now realizing that, yo,
you know, I may need therapybecause there's so many things that's going on
in people's lives man that that we'rewe were once taught to man through it,
a woman through it, you know, not realizing that it's going to
affect not only me, but youknow, maybe my kids or my coworkers

(26:52):
or all that kind of stuff.But I do know they do offer therapy
now, but having one on sitewould probably be cool too. I don't
know, you know. The thingabout it though, if you if you
have one on site, sometimes theymay point a therapist may point outs,
oh we need to go ahead andnip this in the butt real quick,
and it may not be something thatis as serious you know. I don't

(27:15):
know, but yeah, look itgoes against I think a little bit of
let's be honest, what reality TVis for that is that as much as
like you know, everyone I thinkis uh, you know, on board
with people getting therapy after or evenduring if needed whatnot, But don't go
and break up the moment that mightlead to the therapy were that's what we're

(27:36):
eating the popcorn, we're trying towatch that, so I do think,
but Sarah a lot of what Sarahhas been saying over the years. I
do think whether it's because of Sarahor whether it's because that they're just kind
of evolving with the times, You'reright that they now are offering a lot
more. They're doing a lot onthe front end, as you would know,
having just done All Stars. Ithink this is a chance to ask

(28:00):
this question because I want to includeroad rules in this, but then also
the first challenge you did, andthen flash forward to now while we're kind
of still talking about those initial seasonsto ask this question from Lucas. He
wants to know how does it feelto be back on reality TV after nearly
twenty five years and how different isit from being on reality TV in the
nineties and being on TV now inthe age of social media. I mean,

(28:25):
it's to be back on it isno I tell my my wife always
asks me, how does it feel. It feels surreal, you know,
because I thought I was forgotten,you know what I mean. I knew
I did have a lot to offerjust by being the person that I was,
you know, being a good spiritedperson, good hearted person. And

(28:48):
I feel like a lot of timesthat's missing on TV because we want to
see so much grind. We wantto see that that X factor all the
time, when when a lot oftimes it's like representation matters, And so
can I see somebody who in thehow how can somebody function in the midst
of this chaos that has a calmdemeanor? And I and I like to,

(29:11):
you know, think that is meand and I kind of bring that
about and even with for example,even with my students because I teach high
school. Uh, my students seeinghow I handle the situation, and it's
like, Coach, so you reallydon't deal with the drum I said,
I told you all that in class. I don't and the same thing,
you don't need to be dealing withthe drummer. And so it kind of
makes them really say that, Okay, coach does practice what he preaches.

(29:36):
But getting to the social media part, Dude, if we would have had
social media when when I started,you know, who knows, you know
how how big this thing could havegone for me. You know, even
just reading comments, you know,we we were still receiving boxes of fan
mail where we actually had to readthrough the fan mail and sift through it.

(29:57):
But now you get in your commentimmediately and all that kind of stuff.
You know, people are getting sponsorships, people are getting paid to do
you know, different things. It'sit's crazy. And the access that people
have to you is is unreal.I was a little worried about how social
media would would treat me, youknow, but I'm actually quite pleased that,

(30:23):
you know, like I said,the feedback that I'm getting on social
media, man is nothing less thanpositive. Man, It is amazing,
you know. And but it isa huge difference. It is a huge
difference twenty five years. You thinkabout it, twenty five years ago.
Do how much has changed? Youknow? You know, I remember actually

(30:44):
having a the AOL disc putting itin my computer, you know, just
so I could send the email applicationto them, you know what I mean.
They wanted me to do a Itwas like something I had to send
some kind of little application as wellas a written application, you know.
I filled out a twenty five pagewritten application, went to Kinkos, which

(31:07):
kids don't know about Kinkos, youknow, just to send it, to
send it overnight to Human Marriage sothat they could select me. So you
know, it's a huge difference inhow things are being played. Right now,
that's right, speaking of huge differencesin how people are playing on the
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(31:30):
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your subscription is active. All right, more with keep fla hair? Here
we go. What about like whenyou guys both and even this bleeds into

(32:58):
when Derek played in the early twothousand, But I would imagine as exceptionally,
and especially in ninety eight and ninetynine, when you played and when
you were on road rules, howeverything felt a little more like documentary style
run and gun. Hey, we'regoing to go do this, ask forgiveness,
not permission. As far as wherethey're filming, this and that,
whatever and everything was a lot morefree flowing, dare I say, a

(33:22):
lot more fun, a lot moreeasy going. But now, as you
said, times have changed, thingsare a lot more serious. We do
care about the ripple effects, abouthow people are treated, what people say,
things like that. I know fora fact that before you go and
film, you get a very massiveonboarding packet of things you should avoid saying
and doing and this and that,which is all coming from a place of

(33:42):
sincerity and for positive re encouragement.But also it probably lets you know,
twenty five years later, all right, this is kind of a different show.
Probably also show up. It's probablyabout three four more cameras, you
know, budgets a little higher,things like that. What was the difference
in how it felt for you asfar as the level of production you were
involved in, short of the levelof care that was put into what you
guys were doing before and during andafter the fact, as far as the

(34:07):
importance of the kind of the contentthat you were making between then and now.
One of the biggest things, andyou guys just mentioned it earlier,
is like the fourth wall. Youknow, you was like you could not
talk to production, and so Iknow they kind of sell me as like,
dang, he ain't speaking to usat all, because that's what it
was like for us, like youthey are not here, but you know,

(34:28):
for everybody else they were talking withhim, chatting with them, and
they would you know, joking aroundwith them, and I was like,
can we do that now, youknow? And I was still not saying
anything to them, and then theywould come over to me and talk to
me, and I was kind oflike looking around and kind of hold the
conversation real short because I'm like,yo, I don't want to you know
them the thing that yo white peopleof why you talking to them or whatnot?

(34:52):
That is a huge difference. Alsolooking into the camera, you know,
like they're playing into the camera,like they'll say something like and then
they'll say, you know, hey, you better watch out, watch what's
gonna happen next? And I waslike, why are you doing We're supposed
to look at the camera. Allthat kind of stuff has changed, you
know, so that that's that's huge. But I think thank the Office for

(35:13):
that that that comedy the Office wherewhere you know it used to be TV
shows that are being filmed and theynever acknowledge the cameras cut to the office,
which is shot like documentary style,and someone to say something in gyms
just mean mugging. What what didhe say? And then that has affected
now reality TV it's okay to sortof acknowledge the audience that way, you
know, I see I see that, and so a lot of stuff that

(35:35):
I've learned on coming back from AllStars. Even if I watch episodes like
oh, man, if I geta chance, you know, to do
another one, I'm gonna be likethis, I'm gonna be like that,
you know, and and then youknow, but I'm hoping, like I
said that before too. But Ihope it don't change so much, you
know, however low it takes forthem to bring me back. But but
it definitely has changed, Like thereare more cameras, you know, the

(35:55):
drones there, the way things arejust set up, you know, just
and also the way they control thealcohol and stuff like that. You know
that I noticed that was like,Oh, that's pretty chill. I like
that, you know, just toknow you can't get your alcohol until you
can't get your one beer because they'reall gone, yeah, that's true.

(36:16):
But then they was like they waslike saying, we couldn't drink like you
couldn't you couldn't drink clear liquor.You know that you can only like no,
no tequila. So like when wewent out, you couldn't have tequila.
You couldn't have gin or a vodkaor anything like that. So you
can only have like brown liquor.And which is crazy because a lot of
people say that's the one that makespeople go a little crazier or wake up

(36:37):
with more banger. But I theyjust want to be able to see it
from across the room and know it'snot sure it's not vice versa. Are
you sure it's not vice versa.I know where I'm from. Brown get
down. You know what I'm saying, Brown get down? You know.
So that's how it was. SoI don't know, I don't know how
it is. I think it's basedon them wanting to be able to see
and know what it is. Ithink, yeah, that's right, it

(36:58):
too so but but those stuff likethat has changed, and and I understand
that they're trying to change it forthe better, to make it, you
know, a little safer or whatnot. To protect us, you know,
in some regards, but without gettingrid of the elements that still create you
know, reality television, which isgoing to be you know, the drama
moments, the high uh testosterone estrogenmoments, you know what I mean.

(37:22):
And so I can respect it.I can respect it all seeing you know
how it was back when and howit is now, and it is a
it is a well oiled machine that'sthat's still making money for people, So
you know, I can who themout of knock it, you know what
I mean. And going back tolike having like a psychiatrist on site,

(37:43):
Like I mean, what's the differencebetween having one on site and like calling
your therapist when if something like reallygoes down that's like traumatic, you know,
because like the game is still mental, emotional, physical challenge. Like
it's not like it's so supposed tobe hard, it's supposed to be uncomfortable,

(38:04):
you know, So like you know, how do you like if there's
something like you really can't handle,like you leave, You're like, yeah,
you know, that's that's true becausebecause sometimes that that person not being
able to take the mental plays intosomeone else's advantage. Yes, you know
what I mean. If it's toomuch for them. They can't think and

(38:27):
function right. Then somebody like meis like, Okay, well this is
gonna help me out. It's gonnahelp me get that extra lid up against
you, you know, stuff likethat. So yeah, I mean,
you're right, and that's probably oneof the reason why they won't have one
on site. You know. Let'smove into this first challenge that you did,
your only challenge that you did,the Real World road Rules Challenge.

(38:47):
I mentioned it. If you're justlistening to this on the Challenge Mania podcast
feed, you're not watching what.You can watch every episode of our podcast
over at challenge maniacs dot com.Derek is wearing a Kobe Bryant jersey.
That's because you guys had a challengethat Kobe Bryant and I think Reggie Miller
were involved in, and I knewCyrus was involved, but when I went

(39:07):
and looked up the season, I'mlike, Cyrus was not in this season.
He just corrected me by a textthat told me that he was the
TJ Lavin of sorts. He wasthe referee for this challenge, so they
brought him in. But go backto and kind of walk us back to
nineteen ninety nine, the Real Worldroad Rules Challenge, which now we just
connect to the other forty seasons ofThe Challenge, Challenge All Stars, everything

(39:29):
Derek walked into in two thousand andfour and five, But it was very
different back then. What did itfeel like knowing that you were on Road
Rules, this show that it hadthis illustrious history. I think you were
on season six of Road Rules,whereas now you're going on season one or
two or whatever they're calling it ofthis new thing. Did it feel like
the start of a thing, likeit's obviously become or did you think this

(39:49):
is just gonna be a you knowwhatever. No, they told us that
it was going to be something new, you know. And they said,
so, we're trying to get peoplesuch as yourself, you know, who
have a you know, great personality, who are very competitive and willing to
compete against you know, the RealWorld crew you know in this in these

(40:13):
different missions what they called them atthe time, and so and it's like,
so, we're expecting big things fromthis, but it's going to depend
on how well you guys do.So we were, you know, I
was pumped up and when I foundout who all else was going to be
on there. You know, wewere all pumped up and and you know,
like I said, it was itwas a trailblazing event, you know.

(40:35):
And once we got on there andwe did our thing, and and
the cool thing about it was thatthere was you know, you weren't getting
eliminated. It was still the partof television where you learn and you grow
with the cast, you know,because the person that you meet day one
may not be the person that youlove viewing, and then all of a
sudden you may grow into liking thatperson by episode six or seven. And

(40:58):
that was the beautiful thing about it, you know, it was it was
no, it was not cut throatamongst each other, but it was still
drama, you know, just humanbeings always gonna have drama, you know.
But it was just a beautiful thingto know that we were on the
starting blocks, you know, gettingready to pass baton to whoever was next

(41:21):
that Derek. That's actually I've neverheard that angle on because when we talk
about like Challenge championships, the onesthat you know, someone wins on a
season where nobody got eliminated, nowin retrospect, don't seem as tough as
like if you were to win ChallengeAll Star season four, where every week
someone's getting whittled out and then you'rethe last man standing, that feels like

(41:42):
a more difficult path and people havestarted to kind of not look down on,
but maybe push some of those largergroup wins to the side. But
what you're saying is like, froma character standpoint and a TV standpoint,
it allowed you guys to not haveto look at everybody as are they going
to vote me out? Tomorrow istomorrow my last? And that did,
probably especially for you guys, butalso probably just for viewers as well,

(42:04):
create more of a real world anda road Rules like atmosphere than today,
because the Challenge today feels more likea sports league than a reality show the
way that the road Rules and theReal worlds were. And I feel like
like what you're saying is the benefitof doing it that way where you're not
voting people out, is you doget to kind of start off as one
person, maybe end as another person, and grow with each other, which

(42:27):
that's not happening for a tyree who'sgoing home episode one sadly, you know,
yeah, it's and it was stillcompetition involved because it's like every challenge
that we did, you you youlike for example, for us, if
you won, you got to ridein the in the tour bus. If
you lost, you got to ridein who the HOOPTI win of bagos,
you know what I'm saying. Andthen you receive money, you know,

(42:50):
for each one, and then whoeverwon at the end, your group got
a chance to get the bonus money. So you were still competing. It
was like, let's go, let'sgo. So if you lost, it
hurt just like it does now ifyou losing a challenge, you know what
I mean, because you think aboutjust think about how some of the challenges
where it's a single victor or ateam victor, you know, at the

(43:13):
end, that's how it was.It was a team victor. So once
our whole team won at the end, we got the chance to get in
that money pit. All of uswas in there. We were fighting together
trying to get it. It wasit's just the same dynamics to it's just
no elimination, you know what Imean. So we were still working hard,
we were still trying to win everyfreaking one, but it just gave

(43:36):
people a chance to grow and learn. Everybody in there you know, but
I know, you know, somepeople are, oh, that's no place
for reality TV, but I thinkit still is, you know, yeah,
yeah, I mean I think that, like this is the first season
where you do have an official ChallengeChampion, Like I know that as time
has gone gone on, Like Scottwas just saying, like, you al

(44:00):
to really have one winner. Sometimesyou have two winners, sometimes you have
four winners. Sometimes at some pointyou had four, five, or six
or even nine winners was probably themost right. So people like to downgrade
those Challenge championships, but like Ithink that, like, like, do

(44:22):
you feel still feel like a ChallengeChampion? Like, to me, you
are. The people that won thisseason are the original Challenge Champions because let's
be honest, season one, youdidn't have to compete against anybody. I
think that's the one asterisk that youthat that you can possibly say, like,

(44:43):
maybe those guys, those people aren'tChallenge Champions, but we are still
gonna honor them because they started thiswhole thing as a season two winner Real
World versus road Rules, And ifyou know the history, the challenge was
called the Real World Road Rule Challengefor about I don't know twenty five,

(45:04):
twenty seven, twenty eight seasons.I forget where they finally cut that off.
But like, do you feel likeyou're the original, one of the
original Child Champions? Of course,yeah, I mean, and I'll argue
that with anybody, you know whatI mean, because you know it's once
our season was over, we wereconsidered the victors. We were considered the

(45:24):
one because we went through all thesedifferent you know, mission and events and
all this stuff, we were theones that won the majority of them,
and we were the ones to youknow, get the crown. If you
look at the score, the scoreI think was what six to one?
Is he a six to one orfive to one? Nice? You know
what I mean. And so wewon all of those and the one that

(45:45):
we lost, I'll put it onmyself. I lost to Nathan in the
in the uh it was the Marineobstacle course at the end, the very
end, we won all we werewinning all the way up and then we
were tired and then at the endlost by like a marsh light marchin to
Nathan in the end, you know, And that's the one that we lost,

(46:06):
you know what I'm saying. So, I mean, you know,
people say, oh, that's nota real victory. Okay. You know,
you can say what you want tosay, but I know we won.
And you ask the Godfather himself,he'll tell you he know we won.
You know, because if you lookat some of it, like bungee
jumping, getting those rings and stuff, bungee jumping, that was that was
a mission, you know, rollandDerby knocking people's people out, that was

(46:30):
a mission, you know what I'msaying. So all those different things,
you know, they were evincing,they were competitive, and you know there
was a winner out of each one. Let's talk about one of the great
all time winners. Like I said, if you're watching the challengemaniacs dot com,
you can see Derek is rocking thejersey number eight slash twenty four,

(46:51):
number thirty three at Lower Marrion InHigh School in the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area.
Kobe Bryant, Reggie Miller was thereas well. We have a question
from somebody over at challengemaniacs dot com. This is from Missy. Missy wants
to know keep like, how didit feel to have a shot over Kobe
Bryant? And she says, ifyou don't know what I'm talking about going
on YouTube. So you can stillfind this on YouTube, folks, if

(47:12):
you want to watch this challenge.But uh, you had a shot over
Kobe. I have been watched itlately. You had a shot over him.
But I shot training a three onhim, you know, real quick.
I didn't want to do too muchbecause it would look bad. You
know, if if you had aperson who was you know, I'm a
baseball football guy, you know,so if I would have, you know,
did him up a lot, itwould have looked bad on him.

(47:34):
So I just quick three and butthe very next time try to do it
three, he smashes like into thewall. But it was it was dope,
man, just seeing them. ButI think, like if you if
you look back, you see Ronnie. Ronnie was more excited to see them
cast than it. She was like, god, like going crazy, you
know what I'm saying. But itwas dope, man. We had a

(47:57):
chance to play against two of thegreatest you know, basketball players ever.
And even after that kind of stayedin contact with Kobe a little bit,
man. So that was real cool. That was very cool. And he
was a fan of the show too, Like he was asking me questions about
the show like Yo House did.So when you did this, you know
when you were scared of the snakes, man, I was laughing so hard,
you know, so stuff like that. When you see somebody of that

(48:19):
caliber knowing that he watches you,you know that was That was insane.
Man. That was and and theand the true landscape of who the real
basketball goat is. I have toshare with you guys something I saw,
uh, something I pulled up onInstagram. Let's go to have you guys
listen to this and tell me whatyou think. Okay, are you gonna

(48:43):
play it? Too old? What'sthe story? Are you not happy or
you happy? Still to be happyabout too old? Not finished? Y'all
finished basketball? Can you guys hearit? Yeah? Yeah, still be

(49:07):
happy about finish? John finish?All right. So Derek's playing a clip
of your oh, and it's comparingit to to Lebron. That's what you're
doing, right, So you're saying, so Derek's playing it that you're playing
a clip. In case anyone didn'thear it correctly, you're playing a clip

(49:29):
he's you know, of Kobe comparingbeing is it up to oh or down
to oh? It's it's the comparisonbetween the attitude between Kobe Bryant and Lebron
James and Lebron James basically saying it'sjust basketball and and Kobe Bryant being like,
this isn't like, this isn't over. There's still a lot more work
to be done, you know,like, sure, yeah, he's up

(49:51):
to Oh, Lebron just lost.It's the basketball. Sure, but okay.
Yeah, So you're saying that youcould judge a lot about somebody and
whether they're the greatest of all timeby the way that they handle interviews when
we're talking about we're trying to giveKobe Bryant some love and giving him more
goat status than Lebron James. We'retalking about Chicago guy here. That's all.
If you watch the episode, Kobewas like that too, when he

(50:12):
was like, you know, theydrenage shots. You know, we just
got to turn it up on hima little bit, that's it. And
so I was, I was sittingnext to him while he was saying,
I was like, dang doll,he taking this for real. Nashville,
Tennessee Challenge Mania is coming back toBroadway for a meet and greet watch party
for all stars season four, andit's coming up in just a couple of

(50:32):
weeks. Here on Wednesday, Mayfifteenth, seven pm to eleven pm at
ten Roof on Broadway. We wantogs and well, we've got OG's.
We've got the Challenge All Stars seasontwo champ MJ. Garrett in the house.
We've got Challenge All Stars executive producerMark Long in the house, so
if you want to chat his earoff and find out about those season five
rumors. The Godfather will be inthe house. We've got country music sensation

(50:58):
John Brennan, who might play asong or two, who knows. And
then we've got twenty twenty three Challengerof the Year. She won more Challenge
Mania awards than anyone has ever wonin a single year. We're talking about
Challenge season thirty nine standout Nurice Matteo. All in the house at ten Roof.
You'll get to hang out with allof them, get to meet all
of them. We will watch oneor two episodes of The Challenge All Stars.

(51:20):
We will party Nashville style. Goto Challenge Mania dot Live today to
get your tickets for Challenge Mania's NashvilleAll Stars Season four Meet and Greek watch
party. It all goes down toTenroof on Broadway Wednesday, May fifteenth.
Trust me, we won't start theepisodes until everybody's checked in start to seven.
We'll be there all night having agreat time on Broadway at tenroof.

(51:42):
Go to Challengemania dot Live today.The Challenge Mania shop is open. Head
over to Challengemnia dot shop today forthe best way to support the podcas guess
while looking good doing it. Newdesigns and items added every few weeks.

(52:04):
Maniacs time to mobilize. Check outChallenge Mania dot Shop today. And he
came out and did not miss ashot. After I have time, man,
he was, I'm talking about andhere I am thinking, man,
these these millionaires, man, they'regonna let us win. And know they
wanted their money, like he reallywanted his money. He was like,

(52:25):
I don't care if this is yourshow or not. He said, I'm
Kobe. You know, I'm gettingready to be the greatest ever. And
so he really showed it. Hedemonstrated in that day. And so what
what what was this scenario like,was this road rules or was this the
challenge? This challenge? This wasthe challenge? Okay? And then and
then where did Cyrus come from?And and did you guys play like two

(52:45):
on five or what was it likeReggie Miller and Kobe Bryant versus like five
road rulers or and then how canyou explain us the game? All right?
So what happened was the previous challengewas a like a soapbox race,
and so it was the pacers andSnoop Doggie dogs, and so we uh,

(53:07):
it was Japanese pacers and Snoop Doggydogs, and so we were we
were the Japanese pacers and the realworld with the Snoop Doggy Dogs. So
they wound up actually happening to watchthe They had to clean wash the dogs
and stuff like that because they lost. And so when we came, they
was all right, y'all got toplay against us. And so for every

(53:28):
bucket we made, we won twentydollars. Every bucket they made they won
ten dollars, I think it was. And so you know, however,
at the end of the game,you know, you tallied up the scores,
and we wound up put it likethis, We lost, and we
had to pay them forty dollars.You know, I'm like forty dollars to
these millionaires, that's nothing. Andso Cyrus was what they used to call

(53:50):
the mayor at the time, backwhen they, you know, the first
challenges, you you would come backand you'd be the mayor of the challenge,
meaning that you either present you know, the challenge or you you know,
you're a referee or something like that. Because I was a mayor for
the one Challenge two thousand doing that. Heather b Ted, Piggy, all
them were on. It was asnake wrangling mission. And so you know

(54:15):
when when Cyrus came in, hewas the ref and we just went on
and balled out from there. Andthe real World team they was over there
Washington Dogs, you know, soand this is all in Los Angeles.
Yeah, it was at the BeverlyHills YMC A wow, and it was
two one to five, right orsomething like that. At the end,
it started seeming like it was likethey it was an even team, like

(54:37):
they had five people because them joggerswas alley ooping to themselves and everything you're
telling me. So the real Worldteam did not get to do this only
Okay, so the Railroad team hadto be washing dogs away. They had
to go away. So that's why, like Nathan was like, I want
to come back. He was like, man, I want to meet Reggie
Miller and Kobe Bryant. They waslike who are they? They was like

(55:00):
he was like, you don't knowwho they are. It's like, no,
I don't even watch basketball. Andso he was so mad that he
had to watch the dolls while wewere over there playing ball. And so
soon as he got back, hewent over there. He wanted to get
he wanted to get an autograph fromKobe and all them, and Kobe knew
exactly who Nathan was. He wasall my guy, you know, because
Nathan had a situation with this girlhe was dating, and he was asking

(55:21):
Nathan, so are you in suchand such still together and all that stuff.
So Nathan was like, oh,you know about us, You know
about that dude. That's how itwas back then. Man. Like recently,
just to do a quick tangent becausesometimes we like talk about current events.
Here. Casey Clark, who isa current Challenger. I don't know
if you know her, but she'son uh she plays on the on the
Challenge on MTV, but she alsowon Big Brother. She recently posted some

(55:44):
dms that she had with Rihanna,the singer obviously megastar, pop star,
and she posted the dms. Andshe's been getting a little flat for posting
the dms, like, hey,is that little you know? I don't
know, uh, but she's obviouslyproud of it. It's cool. So
Rihanna today is actually, uh,you know, a big challenge fan.
Drake is known for having been abig challenge fan. I can attest to
the fact that when we were oncourt at the Philadelphia seventy six Ers game

(56:07):
and we're walking from here to here, Kelly Ubre, who plays for the
Sixers, just got eliminated by thenext no big deal Seese Tori, and
Anissa goes Yo, Anissa Yo,what's up a Nissa Yo? Tory,
what's up? Girl? Anissa obviouslygoes to a seat and immediately starts looking
up every single But anyway, mypoint is, but now it's so few
and far between that when you hearsomeone a celebrity, someone of a huge
stature, is a big challenge fan. If you know it's a big deal,

(56:30):
you want to post the dms orwhatever. Jannis Anti Tookumpo, former
NBA MVP, Big challenge fan butnow there's like I don't want to say
there's so few of them, butthere's so few of them that are obvious
and out there that when it becomeslike big news back in the nineties,
like like hearing this now you're likeKobe Bryant liking the challenge, like that's
crazy. No, in the nineties, more celebrities than not. We're huge

(56:53):
fans of reality TV because you guysby just being authentic and real, people
like they loved watching that type ofcontent because it was so not threatening to
what they did. So like LeonardoDiCaprio sees Treschelle walking down Sunset Boulevard and
he rolls up on her, youknow, ask us she wants to come
over, but he's rolling up becausehe loves the real world. Because to

(57:15):
Leonardo DiCaprio, that is so farfrom what the work he's doing, but
is so in tune with the lifehe's living. Same thing with athletes as
well. So it's funny, likeDerek's running to Mark Wahlberg in the past,
he told me to watch and it'slike back in the day, it
wouldn't have even been a big dealfor that to be the case, because
there were so few shows on TV, Real World, road Rules by extension,

(57:37):
then the challenge like just by beingone of the few cast members on
one of those shows. Any year, I would say the seven people who
were on Real World or road Rulesthat year, maybe more so Real World
than Road Rules no offense guys,but they were among the I would say
five hundred most famous people in thecountry at that time, and maybe even
more, maybe even two hundred mostfamous people just by nature. Remember when

(58:00):
there was so few reality shows onyou were literally one of the seven reality
starts of that year. And yeah, so he was even bigger because knowing
that they only had one black dude. You know what I'm saying. One
of the perks, one of theperks of horrible diversity a casting was,

(58:21):
you know what I'm saying, SoI was getting recognized everywhere, you know
what I'm saying, because it wasjust they didn't confuse me with nobody,
you know what I'm saying. Whenyou're not only one, you're not confused
with anybody else, you know whatI'm saying. And but you're telling the
truth, man, Because I cantell you how many times I've heard people
come up to me, you know, and you know, high in the
stature of life and tell me so, you know, hey, I really

(58:44):
appreciate you just for being genuine.And then once they started talking to me,
like I said, with Kobe evenjust communicating even more because he was
like, you know, dude,you just a real dude. You know
you're you're not looking into this forfame and fortunate, which I wasn't because
I didn't know the magnitude of iteither, you know. Still, but
at the same time, I wasjust the person you see on TV is

(59:07):
still Keifler. That's who I am. You know what I'm saying. I'm
a real cat man that just liketo know the people and whatever God blessed
me with. On the other side, he does that, you know,
but you're gonna get me. Askingabout your family, You're gonna get me.
Sitting talking to you, You're gonnaget me, you know, caring
for you, you know, treatingyou to dinner whatever. You know,
That's just who I am, youknow what I mean. And so when

(59:29):
when you see celebrities see that,like you said, it's so far removed
from what they normally see where everybody'strying to come at them because they want
to get something from them. Youknow that it is different, man,
and I truly appreciate it. Youknow, the love that I got from
people based off of what they sawfrom me, Man, and I hope
that it will continue now because Ithink I think people see that. You

(59:50):
know, Yo, this Keithla isa breath of fresh air, which is
what we started the conversation about fromthe beginning of the podcast. Look,
you're getting it, man. Whenwe post we're having a guest on,
right, I don't like to ourchallenge is always even if we post someone
that's coming on and we don't geta great response our challenges and something we
actually look forward to is we wantat the end of the podcast someone to
go, you know what, Idon't really like so and so, but

(01:00:13):
now I do. Well, there'sno need for that, nor is there
a chance of that. Because whenI posted that you were coming on next
on Challenge Mania, we got everybodywas just so excited that you were coming
on. Hearing from me, wegot a couple of people throwing shooting their
shop. Be like, hey,ask him. I'd be like, so,
I forget what it was, butask maybe like my type. You
know, you have people from allgenerations, just gravitating towards your energy,

(01:00:34):
rooting for you, having maybe alittle bit of crushes and man crushes on
you. And so that is hardto do in this day and age,
my friend, it really is,And especially with a show where there's not
so much camera time to go around. We've been we've been joking that like
our man Ace, every time theyshow him, we're like, oh shit,
Aces on the show we forget,you know. But like yourself,
Flora, you've really managed to makethe most of the camera time and the

(01:00:57):
moments you've been given so real quick. I just want to ask to catch
everybody up. So after challenge Railroadversus Road Rules, that's the last time
we see you on TV? Whatdo you go and do in life?
What are you doing today? Andlike kind of catch us up, I
know, you know, give usthe clip notes of the last twenty five
years. Well, after I didthe show, I moved to Dallas,

(01:01:19):
Texas because my whole goal was toget to LA I've always wanted to be
an actor or performer, you know, as well as a baseball player.
I just knew I was gonna,you know, play professional baseball, but
my family were not baseball fan.They were football fans. So I played
two years of college football and thenI transferred as and I wanted to play
at the other school that I wasat, but they my transferred and go
in. So that's when I becamethe mascot and cheerlead. I used to

(01:01:42):
cheer too, so I used totoss the girls up and all that kind
of stuff. And so then whenI moved to Texas, I was teaching
school out there, got married,and my wife and I moved to LA
and I started acting a little bitin La. I did. I was
a spokesperson for the rec CV fortwo years for the NFL Sunday Ticket and
March Madness, and then I dida few independent projects. And one of

(01:02:05):
my biggest accomplishments was that I'm moreproud of than anything is. I became
a child actor. But I wasin the costume for this show called Hip
Hop Harry. It's with a bigbear. He's got like a kango on,
he got a chain and if yousaw, like during COVID that's like
go go, Go go to thelittle kid was doing that dance. I'm

(01:02:28):
the guy in the costume, SoI'm in the in the big bear costume
hip hop Harry. Yeah, Imean you pull it up. You're like,
dude, I'm pulling it up rightnow. So you're telling me,
you're telling me this, This isyou right here. Hold on. Apologies
to those listening to this. Ifyou want to watch the video version of
this and see who we're talking about, go to challenge banias dot com full
video versions of every episode of thepodcast. Tell me that's you. That's

(01:02:52):
me right there, that's right there. So, oh my god, a
little longer. Yeah, it's twoof us. The one that's me and
the promo pictures, those promo picturesof me is the other guy hip hop
Harry. Yes, he was Barneyfor fourteen years. So it's two of
us, and we split episodes.So he does an episode, I do

(01:03:14):
an episode, and so yeah,I did that. And when my twins
were born, man, La wastoo expensive on a teacher's salary and acting
wasn't you know, and we needa little help. So my wife's like,
let's move, so we moved toLa. That's the other one there.
If he's outside, that's the otherone. But the inside is me.

(01:03:37):
So you can tell just by lookingat you could just tell just by
looking at the posture and vice.So what what what network was that show
on? That was on Discovery Kidsand PBS Kids. Wow, that's so
cool. Yeah, so's it's afew episodes. You'll see me on there.
The other guy, David Jordan waswas hip hop Harry as well.

(01:03:59):
And and so you know, Manand I moved. We moved from LA
to Georgia and I've been here teaching, coaching sports, uh, you know,
being married, raising my kids.Man. Got I finished my doctorate
well two three years ago. Twoyears ago finished my doctor in the psychology
sports and performance. And man,just loving life. Man, you know,

(01:04:21):
that's what I've been doing since then. Man, it's just just trying
to and and always you know,having that that hope in the back of
my head that I would get anopportunity to, uh to you know,
do something with with with TV again. But when when Mark reached out,
he was like, Yo, I'mthinking of doing something with OGS. When

(01:04:42):
he did that, I was,man, I was DM and Mark,
you know all the time, Yo, do it like this and listen is
you know, let's get the competitionback with fun. Listen to X,
Y and Z. And then whenit popped off. Man, I was
so I was more excited for himdoing it than I was for me getting
the possibility of coming back. Youknow what I'm saying. Because when we
when Mark and I did the firstchallenge, he was he was, Man,

(01:05:05):
we just had a good time,you know, Marcus just just a
cool dude, real till we hada very good time doing doing the challenge.
And so when he did the ogsMan, you know, in the
All Star format, I was soexcited for him, even when I wasn't
on the other three. I wasjust excited for his success of it all

(01:05:26):
and to see people get an opportunity. Man. I got a couple questions,
chair, weren't you supposed to beon an All Star season before and
then got hurt or something like that? Am I mistaken? Weren't you supposed
to be on three? Or somethinglike that? I wanted it was either
it was either two. It waseither two or three. I was training

(01:05:46):
some college athletes, man, anddoing just freaking I don't know, one
of my little warm up drills andtwisted my ankle and wound up tearing some
ligmas in my ankle, and soI had to wind up getting surgery so
I did. I went through thephysical, I went through all the interviews,
and then the doctor looked at itagain and said, yo, no,

(01:06:09):
you need to get surgery on this. And so the day I got
the call that they wanted me,I had to turn it down the very
next day because I got the newsand so that that disappointed me. So,
oh, another thing my wife andI did. We did an episode
of house Hunters too. House Huntersthat's not that's not the the ghost Hunters.

(01:06:30):
That's not house Hunters where you youpicked your house one, two or
three. You gotta pick which oneyou're gonna you know, buy. Yeah
we did. Did you actually buythe house? Yeah? This house,
that's the house. Nice. Ijust I've been thinking of this whole interview.
Man, my man's got a dopehouse. Well, you can see
how we found the house at houseHunters. Wait, do they give you
money? Though? Like household,a production is like a production fee,

(01:06:55):
you know what I mean. It'sas small as a small I think it
was like five hundred or something likethat. You know, you get a
small production for it all. Butthey still showed the episode. Now they
actually showed it like last week.That's so let me show you where are
you based? Now? You're basedin Georgia, right, Yeah, I'm
in Georgia. It's a city calledAtworth, Georgia's right outside of Atlanta.
So just to get a quick plugin speaking of Atlanta, for all you

(01:07:15):
guys who rode in when we askedfor questions and whatnot, you were just
trying to shoot your shot. Askhim if he likes guys like me.
No, you could come to Atlantaand you could say hello to the man.
Take a photo with Challenge Mania Atlantaat City Winery June eighth. I'm
gonna roll through the guests again.You can tell me well, so I
know one of them. You justspoke about Mark Long, So it'd be
cool to see you guys reconnect.But also in the house, we're gonna

(01:07:36):
have Trichelle Canna Tella do your pathsever crossed? She was She was a
little bit later than you once.I met her once, but it was
way back when they used to flyus in to to have like viewing parties
for the new the new season.They was saying like twice I want to
say, and then we met atone of the viewing parties. So she's
coming off a big win on anew show called The Traders. She went

(01:07:59):
on that show, say that again. I said, I would love to
do that show. Oh yeah,did you watch it? Yeah? Yeah,
I watched a little bit of it. I was like, oh,
this is pretty dope. Nice.So you're getting bit by the reality TV
bug again. Yeah, I lovethat. So yeah, we'll have Toschelle,
We'll have Olivia, we'll have Michelle. Michelle won Survivor. I don't
know, do you watch any ofthese? Did you watch Survivor at all?
Yeah? I watched. I I'ma country dude, so I'm like,

(01:08:20):
I can do that. Come on, man, you're taking any and
all calls. You're like Survivor,Big Brother, Traders, house Hunters,
ghost Hunters. But hey, Ican do it all. I'm a man
of all tools. Man, let'sgo. I love it. Well,
if you want tickets to that,you can go to Challenge Manie dot Live.
I believe VIP is almost sold out. That's how you get to meet

(01:08:42):
everybody after the show. But goto Challenge Manie dot Live, get your
tickets and there might be something leftover. So d I let you.
We're gonna transition, but before ifyou don't want to transition all start just
yet. D What do you got? Well? I got I don't know
how long you told them we weregoing to keep him today, but I've
got like five questions. Bang them. Uh. I always wanted to be
a teacher and a coach at thehigh school level. I thought that that's

(01:09:05):
what my calling was going to be. What do you teach and coach?
I teach health education and uh P. But my classes that I teach I
got. I got a girls bodyscoping class. It's girls only, and
we kind of created this class becausea lot of the girls don't want to
work out in the in the weightroom with the you know, the guys

(01:09:26):
and stuff. So we created abody scoping class where you know, I
put them through hit workouts to bottleworkouts. Uh, we can't say yoga
and meditation, so we say flexibilityand visualization. You know, why can't
you say that? You know,because they think it's religious base. We're
in the Bible belt of Georgia andyou know anything now like they trying to
take all that stuff out. Soit's it's crazy, but you know,

(01:09:49):
you follow the rules, so youstill pay your bills. You know what
I mean, I get meditation kindof out. But but yoga, even
the yoga, yeah, they do. You call it flexibility, and even
meditation, you know, you justcall it, you know, visualization,
you know. And but it reallycalms the kids down and it's peaceful.
And my classes are growing like crazy, like like it gets to the point

(01:10:10):
where you know, they have toturn kids down in my classes because I
have so many that want to getin there. Man. Yeah, and
then I coach baseball and I coach. I'm the head coach of the girls
flag football team. And uh sothat's that's dope too. Damn what level
high school or what? What?What? What? Uh? Freshmen?
Well, varsity is from boseball.Majority of my health classes are ninth graders,

(01:10:36):
but everybody else is nine through twelve. So on. So so your
baseball team twelve, my baseball team, I'm the head JB coach and then
my and I'm the assistant coach overall. So I do the conditioning and the
training for the varsity team. Nice. Yeah, how old are your twins?

(01:10:59):
They're nine? Seam there'll be twentyin July. Wow. Yeah yeah,
yeah, we can we can getto uh Scott, we can get
to the drama of All Stars forand the competition of All Stars four if
you want, right, So,just like in general, you've got this
huge elimination win against Cyrus. Youhave this amazing celebration where you are I

(01:11:27):
don't know, you know, sinceyou're a high school teacher and a coach.
You tell me what what what youcall that? I don't know what?
Like, what do you call thattouch that touchdown celebration after you beat
Cyrus? What do you call himthat? I mean, you call it.
You can call it dry hunch orwhatever. You know. Back in
the day, that's what we usedto call it. You know, if

(01:11:48):
you were being say, manage youknow, he said, oh man,
you hunting on girls or nothing likethat, So that was called a little
dry hunch. Dry hunch. Definitelylook like we call it a dry hunch.
And we saw you get emotional afterthe win. This is your first
elimination win. Obviously back then,uh, there were no one on one

(01:12:10):
competitions. There were no eliminations.Actually, I think that there was a
point where after after season two,they would just vote people off until they
figured out their bread and butter waskind of these one on one eliminations what
did it feel like, you know, finally get some like like eliminations stripes.

(01:12:41):
Yeah, that was that was Thatwas That was dope, man,
because my goal was to not getyou know, have to get any elimination
strikes, meaning I didn't have togo in there, you know what I
mean, That was my goal.But I felt like, if I go
in there and I'm one hundred percenthealthy, I'm coming out alive. You
know, I'm coming out on topand with all stars. You know,

(01:13:03):
it wasn't supposed to be so.So I guess you say physical because we're
older now. You know, bruisesdon't heal like they should. You know,
everybody should have insurance something by nowbecause we're all old. But the
fact that you got to go inthere and do something physical, you know,
we were kind of hoping we didn'thave to. Plus going in we

(01:13:25):
kind of heard that this season isgoing to be different from other seasons.
You know, they're really trying somethingwith it being an OG season, and
even people that did the other twothey said it was more lighthearted. They
said, Yo, this season isdifferent. It's lighthearted. They're more relaxed
towards us and all this kind ofstuff. They say this would never happen
on the flagship, this would neverhappen in All Stars one or you know

(01:13:45):
whatever. So it seemed had beenchanging. But once I got in there,
man, I saw it was alittle too and a ball and I
kind of picture what was going on, kind of you know, our their
version of the Hall Brawl, andI was like, well, you know,
I gotta come out on top,you know what I'm saying. And
I just knew, you know,put that little football background into it and

(01:14:08):
just let it work, man,And that's what I did. And to
be honest, like it has beenvery much like we talked about this on
our Patreon yesterday, Scott a challengemaniaxdot com. Like this, this challenge
really feels like the way Mark Longwas selling All Stars to be like,

(01:14:30):
this feels very backyard games. Ihaven't written down here in All Caps backyard
games. That's really what it feelslike. But like you got that one
elimination that's like Fridty, it's physical, is maybe it's gonna get this season.
I feel like we don't have totell anybody what exactly, but like

(01:14:55):
that's like you said, the variationof Haul Brawl at some point we had
a crawl all with Cyrus against Tyler, where I think Cyrus beat Tyler.
So I'm curious, like just overall, like how do you feel about these
this challenge? Like you've done fiveof five competitions so far. You just

(01:15:18):
did the Biblehead Bob sled. Yeah, you know, like just what what's
your like do you feel like you'reprepared for like a final and after five
competitions? I like I said,I'll put myself up against anybody anytime,
any day, you know, That'sjust who I am. I grew up,

(01:15:38):
you know, I'm a middle childman. And so my older brother
four years older than me, andwhenever they needed that extra person, they
always put me out there, youknow. And they didn't take nothing off
me. They would slay me,throw me whatever, and so that that
kind of put that dog in me, you know. And so if it's
going to be me or you atthe end of the day, I'd rather
it be you than me. Youknow what I mean. You're going down,

(01:16:00):
you know, and I'm gonna gonnafight tooth and nail. And so
when when you know, when youput me in any kind of any kind
of competition, I'm going for itall. That's that's the name of the
game. Go for it all untileither some act of God takes me out
or you just are a beast andyou you know, you get me and
you know, my hat's off toyou. But I guarantee you if it's

(01:16:23):
if it's a battle out of five, my goal is to win three of
those. You know what I'm saying. And so I felt like I was
ready, uh to to go allthe way. But also, you know,
being considered that what they don't showis that you know, I was
starting to get I was starting toget a little I guess a get get

(01:16:45):
more of a dog in me,because what you don't see is how they
pick. You know, when yousee us on teams, they were picking
teams like the Challengers were, wewere picking teams. T J would say,
Okay, such and such, suchand such and such and such,
you're going to pick teams. Yourteam captains. Yeah, your team captains.
I was last pick for every everyone. Every time you see us,

(01:17:09):
I was picked last, even aftereven after uh I eliminated Cyrus, I
was picked last. Everything. Iwish there would show us that and do
what what and would it go?Boy girl boy girl did have to pick
boy like that. Some things wouldgo boy girls, some things would go
just pick, you know, andbut it was it was awesome. Say

(01:17:31):
you pick, you pick, youpick, You picked him back like this,
and I was the last pick.And even t J made a coming.
He was like, keithler Man,they're sleeping on you. And I
said, hey to each I said, you know that's that's that's their loss,
you know, and then you knowit would it would be another one,
like especially like on the Bibblehead.I was last pick, and I
think that's why we had five andthe other teams like had four. And

(01:17:56):
so he was like what was heHe was like asking him, like what
are out doing? He's and thisman has proving himself and he said and
I said, TJ, it's allgood, man, it's all good.
And I'll be the last pick.So I think it's so interesting they decide
not to show that because a alot of viewers are always wondering how do
they form these teams. You know, there's a lot of conspiracy theorists who

(01:18:16):
wonder if they put people with peoplefor you know, chemistry reasons, or
TV reasons or or you know,competitive sake. Whatever and then so that
would answer that question and then beit would build so much added storylines as
you mentioned this one about how you'rebeing underrated and underappreciated, things like that.
So I think it's a mistake.I know obviously they probably cut it
for time, but you could justkind of real quickly bang bang bang bang

(01:18:39):
bang show us the schoollyard pick realquick question. Actually know that this question
right here from Bad Bobby has itfeel to be back and dominate in your
first elimination. But the second partis what I wanted to ask. He
says, would you consider coming backto do a flagship season, the much
longer season on MTV As you mentioned, it's a bit more cutthroat or just
sticking to the All Stars premise.The problem comes with my job, That's

(01:19:05):
the main thing, you know whatI'm saying, Because to do All Stars
I had to actually resign. Wow. Yeah, I resigned from my position
and just had to keep my fingerscrossed that they will hold my position.
But at the time I had astudent teacher and they put her on as
a long term sub, and thenwhen I came back, they was able
to hold my position. But youknow, I know that doesn't happen all

(01:19:28):
the time. That was just aonce in the light time, I think.
And even then I lost money becauseI was getting like almost two thousand
dollars less every month in my checkbecause once I came back, I came
as a limited contracted person. SoI was losing money. And so you
know, it's like, can Iafford to do that? You know,
I have mortgage to pay, collegetuition to pay, you know, and

(01:19:51):
other stuff that we're paying for,and so I would love to, but
it has to make sense, youknow what I'm saying. It really has
to make sense, because just tobe on television, you know, it's
not worth putting my family and stufflike that in Jeopardy, you know,
and and all that kind of stuff. Man. But if if let's say,

(01:20:12):
if they feel during the summertime Flagship, yeah, I'll do it,
you know, because I know I'mnot gonna be involved in the drama,
you know, bring no drama,but I mean you bring it to me,
then I'm gonna give it back.But you know I would. I
would love to do it, man, because I respect it. You know,
this this show has done so muchfor me. Jonathan Murray, you
know, and and Mary Ellis wentat the time, she was they have

(01:20:35):
done so much for me that Ifeel honored to be asked and I feel
like I'm really kind of giving backto them, and more so than I'm
getting for myself. Any I know, obviously it's high school, so it's
it's probably a little different. We'veheard from different teachers principles, uh,
people who work in the school systemin the past that uh, they you
know, get different levels of supportfrom their from their colleagues and from their

(01:20:59):
schools to go and do a showlike Survivor that's a little bit more wholesome
and then maybe doing the challenge,which for years and years, although it's
kind of distancing itself from that alittle bit, for years and years was
associated with drinking and hooking up andparties and things like that. How did
how did they feel hearing that youwere going to do it, even though
you had to resign formally to doit. Were you getting support from the
students, from the from the colleaguesand the co workers to go and uh,

(01:21:23):
you know, dust off the reality? To meybody knew, Oh got
it, God, I got it. Tell I didn't tell anybody. I
told my my my administrator. Ofcourse, you know, I said,
I have to go and film thisshow. I said, I can't go
into detail. And he was like, well, you gotta resign, you
know, Da da da, Andjust so happens, one of the head
he was like second in command inmy district. He told me how to

(01:21:44):
go about it because I actually coachedhis son in baseball and he was my
principal that hired me at that school. And so then he left and went
to work for the district and Icontacted him. I said, what do
I need to do to kind ofmake sure my job I get my job
back. And he was like,well, if you maneuver your student,
teach it this way and do thisthis way. He said, you have
a great chance of giving me yourjoyce. I can't promise anything, but

(01:22:04):
you have a better chance. Andso I'm very grateful for doctor Daniels for
doing that, because he gave me, you know, that piece of advice.
But it was getting to the pointwhere my wife was like, you
need to do it. You know, even if they don't hire you back.
You're an educator, You're gonna finda job. And you know,
and I believe that too. Iwas like, you know, cause I'll

(01:22:25):
teach. You know, they alwaysneed special ed teachers. I'll do special
ed, you know, if Ihave to, just to make sure my
money is taking care of the houseis taken care of, you know.
But because I was like, Igotta do it, I have to do
it. I've been praying for theopportunity. Man, It's been twenty five
years, and I said, Godfinally gave me this opportunity. So I'm
gonna take it. And I knowif I take it and pray on it,

(01:22:45):
He's gonna make sure everything is okay, you know what I'm saying.
And he did exactly that. Hemade sure everything even though I was two
thousand dollars short every month, itwas just things was just falling into place.
Man. Everything just worked out.And the love that I'm getting,
you know, in return, youknow, everything just shows that I was
right in line with what he wantedme to do. So I want to
know about after the fact. Soonce obviously in the cats out of the
bag when you are allowed to starttelling people what the support has been like.

(01:23:10):
But I also have to add thecaveat where you guys go and film
this thing. Early twenty twenty three. We're just watching it now almost summertime
twenty twenty four. They did notformalize the announcements of that it's happening that
you're on the cast until recently,So I don't know. Obviously, I
know you wanted to play by therules, you know, keep thinking close

(01:23:30):
to the best, et cetera.So what was it like living in sort
of purgatory for this last year yearand a half, not really being able
to put it out there to allthese people that, as you said,
you did have to make a lotof life choices and have a lot of
people, you know, kind ofhelp you out and welcome you back with
open arms, this and that.What was it like kind of kind of
letting them know without let them knowand things like that. And what was
this long layoff like for you?Because we're fascinated by it as people who

(01:23:55):
cover the show, knowing that thisthing's been in the can for a year,
like, hey, give us thisthing to watch and talk about.
Must have been hard for you havingdone this and then not get to relive
it and watch it and kind ofput it out there for everybody for another
year and a half. Yeah,it was difficult kind of keeping you know,
the lid on. But the coolthing about the Internet now is that
people would go out there and seeit was like, oh, so you

(01:24:15):
did a show, and I'm like, nah, I ain't. Yes,
you did, coach, I seeyour name right here or you know,
they would they would look it upand I say, oh, well,
you tell me what I did.I don't know, you know, So
that kind of helped. And thenwhen they finally you know, allowed us
to say stuff I was, youknow, I would say but even like
my wife, I didn't tell hereverything that went on while we were there

(01:24:36):
because I wanted her to see it, like like you know, all the
different episodes, like for example,I haven't watched the bombs landing episode yet
because we've been busy, and sowe're gonna watch it tonight, you know
what I mean. And so wewatch it together and we see and we're
all surprised together. But it's littlethings like that that you know, people

(01:24:57):
would go on there and they wouldsay, oh, I see that you're
on the cast with such I said, oh I did say that, and
say what the internet said? Isay, okay, well that's where you
get your information from. But Itwas kind of tough, you know,
because it was a whole year andpeople say, so, when's the show
coming. When's the show coming,bro, I don't know, you know,
if it is, if it iscoming. And it was getting to
the point where we had our owngroup chat on group me you know,

(01:25:17):
the cast, and we were like, are we ever coming out? And
they were like, well, theyjust did this. They just did us
say that this? Did you knowthirty nine? They just and so all
this stuff. Everybody says, well, it was good knowing you guys while
it lasted or whatever, So saygoodbye to everybody, and then all of
a sudden, you know, amonth later, boom it pops out and
now we're you know, excited it'scoming. Minute. What was that Thursday

(01:25:40):
morning like, or whether it wasWednesday morning, Thursday morning, you beat
Cyrus in the elimination, you walkinto school, like, what are the
kids like proud of you? Dothat? Do you of them watch it?
I was ou like it was crazybecause I walked into the cause I
normally my first period class we meetin the small gym, this my girls
class, and we do all ofmy exercise and every thing. So then
we walked down to the main gym. So soon we get down to the

(01:26:02):
main gym. Yo, like thefootball team, all the kids wild running
coach, Yo, coach you wasbeasting. Coach, you was beasting.
I said, that's how'm gonna doyou if you're behind in the hallway.
So next time I see you thehallway, you know what I'm saying now,
My bad coach, my band,my bad. And so you know,
it was real cool that everybody wasexcited about it. Man and my
son, my son he texted mehe was away at school. My other

(01:26:24):
son he's here at home. Andthey was like just too excited. They
was talking to me, pops,many, I know you had it in.
I said, hey, that's thatold man strength. That's what I
be telling you. Better act rightor as you're gonna get it up on
you too, you know. Soit was real dope. Man, Oh
my god, I love it.Well. I don't want to spoil what
happens in tonight's episode, but Ilet me just tell you a little something.

(01:26:45):
You keep your star safe. Weare currently talking to no Drama Keithla
who is keeping his star safe.Thron Bible Sled Bibblehead episode where you can
spoil it. He did it,he was there, knows, and then
everybody else has watched it. Hehasn't watched it formally, we could talk
about it. Yeah, But Iwhen I knew I was on team with

(01:27:08):
Derek, because Derek has been killingit. When I knew I was on
team with Derek, I was like, oh, yeah, this is good
here, this, this is gonnabe a win. But it was crazy
because we were going down down theBibles, I mean going down the slid,
and Derek was going so fast andhe was just snatching him. And
I was like, damn, Derek, slow down, slow down, Derry,
Derry, chill out, Derek.And then when I when we got

(01:27:30):
to the end, I saw Derekhad all of them. I thought he
had dropped a lot of them.I said, damn, Dere, good
time, Dere, good time,Derek. I mean my tone totally switched
because I really didn't see that hewas He was snatching and snatching, snatching,
and I would like, get one, get one here and there.
But yo, I did not knowhe was like just I'm talking about he
was going ham in there. Man. It was crazy, Derek. What

(01:27:51):
people don't know is Derek is oneto watch Silent Killer. That cat is
awesome, man, that cat isawesome. Yes, we love us some
Derek shouts that Derek Chavez whatever he'sdoing right now, I don't know if
he's watching funny as. I mean, just keep you laughing, man.

(01:28:12):
He's he's real cool, real cool. Can we ask him about some drama.
Yeah, drama, let's talk aboutit. So like there's been some
a few uh, major chaotic scenes. I guess, I guess. We've
had Jasmine. Uh, we've seenJasmine upset. We've seen Ayana upset,

(01:28:35):
We've seen car upset. We've seenRachel Janelle upset. Who am I missing?
Uh? Laura Laurrel and all thatthing is starting to kind of brew.
Do any of these names kind oflike jump out at you and go,

(01:28:57):
you know what this one right hereI gotta tell you about. I
mean, you know, I loveAyana, man, but it was it
was it was it was just popoff on her, like you know,
all of a sudden, we couldbe scrambling eggs next thing, you know
what did you say? What?It's like? WHOA? What's going on?

(01:29:18):
You know? And so she'd bearguing with somebody and and I don't
know if that was the game planor what getting people's heads. But she
was she started off fresh, youknow, started off fresh and just her
and that like that one night whenit went from cam and then it surprised
me that it jumped to jazz,you know what I'm saying, and then

(01:29:41):
they went from there and then itwent to back to uh to Janelle.
I mean, I don't know,man, I met Ayana a long time
ago at like I said, oneof the premieres again for their season,
and and that was it, andwe communicated through social media, but never
you know, more than more thanthat, but it was it was,

(01:30:03):
it was off the chain. AndI don't like to speak ill about a
person, you know, especially ifthey're going through something right now. I
mean, she's a you know,our conversation was always amazing and golden,
but it was just you know,that's just the game plan that I guess
she was playing, you know,to try to get people riled up.
And it worked. It got peopleriled up, It got people, you
know, frazzled. But it wentdeeper. And it's not my place to

(01:30:26):
speak on whatever what went real deepbetween her and Janelle because it it'll be
coming from third party source, youknow. But I knew that that it
was deep enough to have Janelle readyto leave, like like, I mean,
her spirit it broke. It wasn'twhat she wanted, you know what
I mean. And I was talkingto Janelle and I was, you know,

(01:30:47):
excited for her because she was talkingabout how she she's a runner and
she's, you know, does allthis different things. Oh, this girl's
gonna be a beast too. Andthen all of a sudden, to see
it changed like that, I wassay, whoa this thing was? You
know, got real crazy jazzline,little fiery self. Man, you couldn't

(01:31:11):
you can't talk crazy to jazz.Jazz and Brandon got into it one time,
I'm not mistaken argument they had andthat was that kind of got deep.
And like I said, a lotof this stuff, I hear the
woof, the woof, and thenI come in and like what's going on?
Because sometimes I don't even go intothe room, you know, because
I'm like, you know, shouldI be in there? But then the

(01:31:32):
dad and me, I go inthere to make sure nobody gets too out
of hand, nobody starts putting handson each other, you know, So
I kind of go in there forthat, you know, and it kind
of looked like I'm being nosy,but no, I'm kind of like,
because I don't want nobody to fightup, yo, nobody needs to go
home. Let's all get this money, you know, let's all try to
put some kind of positive light oneverything. But those were the only ones.

(01:31:54):
And then that Laurel and Nikki drama. That's just lovers quarrel, man,
you know, that's all that was. And nikis Nikki is my girl.
Nikki is my girl. Nicole,we were sitting there and we would
be laughing so hard, like Nicolewould literally be crying about to pee herself.
She and I just laughing, andit would start off with she was
like, you know, Keith Leerbride, I don't Keith clup. I mean,

(01:32:15):
bruh, I don't know what's what'sgoing on with her? Man.
It's like she keeps, she keepscoming around me, and I'm like,
Nicole, leave her alone, leaveher alone, just get over here with
me. And she's like, butKeith Lebride, I mean just you know,
I talked to her and she don'twant to listen. Bro. It's
like, Yo, what's what's happening? Man, and so I was like,
look, this is what we needto do, and we'll start talking
about stuff and I'll get her mindoff of it. Next thing, you
know, she's crying, laughing andlike literally like tears crying. And so

(01:32:41):
she and I was was golden thecar a situation, you know, And
I think people brought the drum inthe car because of the fact that they
knew she was a beast and theyhad to you know, maneuver votes,
maneuver alliances and all that stuff tokind of you know, see who's gonna
vote to get her out. ButCarl is one of those She's one of

(01:33:05):
the ones that's built for the game. She's really built for the game.
Like, if you start talking aboutchallenges and stuff like that, her picture
is always going to be right nextto an example, you know what I'm
saying of whatever it is of examplewhat to do, an example of who
you want to get rid of becauseof being a power play all that kind
of stuff. She is one ofthose ones. And so a lot of

(01:33:25):
times that's why a lot of dramawas you know, surrounding her, because
it was about who's building an allianceand who's doing all that other stuff.
But other than that, those arethe only drama pieces that you saw,
and a lot of it really waslike I'm not gonna say it wasn't warranted,
but you know, it was justit was always over the you got

(01:33:47):
my back, I got your backkind of stuff. That's how it all
started. And when when you honestlylook at it, when it's in the
the spirit of competition, who reallyhas a person is back? When as
there's one winner at the end,you know what I'm saying, So either
you're gonna either you're gonna be againstme now or you're gonna be against me

(01:34:09):
when it's between you and I,you know, at the end. So
it's like if the alliances don't evenreally matter, you know. And that's
why, for example, when itwhen it came to stars, that's why
I took Brass Star because I'm fromthe school, the old school of you
get the big dog out right now, so that if you make it to
the final, your final is easier, you know what I'm saying, as

(01:34:31):
opposed to worrying about, well,if I take his start, he's gonna
be chasing me. And if somebody'schasing you, that means you in front
you see what I'm saying. Sothat's what you know. When it comes
to stuff like that, people didn'twant to They didn't want to put that
pressure on themselves. So that's wherea lot of that drummer came from.
You know, uh, you youtouched really quick on the kind of differences
you come from a team format backgroundonly one season, but still it's obviously

(01:34:56):
evolved into this kind of ever flowingindependent game. I gotta get this last
question in from Tracy Weckworth. Shecalls herself the Kahuta enthusiast, but she's
also a very big Kifla enthusiast.She's very excited to meet you in Atlanta.
I've got She texted me this questionto make sure I got it in.
She said, my question, Keifla, how would you describe your experience
going from a six on six teamformat to the current iteration of the challenge.

(01:35:18):
It's been an absolute pleasure having youon our screens. Looking forward to
meeting you in Atlanta, where Ihope you can share your experience as hip
hop Harry, So she'll be delightedto know we've already touched on that.
But maybe he'll come into suit toAtlanta City Winery on June eighth. But
go ahead with keep it so wehave the suit. No, no,
I don't have it because I'll bemaking I'll be making some money with if

(01:35:40):
I had the suit. Oh yeah, we could have had you at Winny's
birthday party yesterday. But but yeah, so talk about that, Like,
you come from the team background.I know you've watched enough. You said
you caught up on All Stars andwatched some recent seasons, so you know
it's a different game out there.But talk about this individual game that you
get dropped into and he touched onit also with the Stars. Talk about
how that's shaken things up in thatpsychology of who to take it from,

(01:36:02):
who to give it to, thingslike that. Yeah, well, when
you're coming from the team format,the team formatter is it's cool because you
got people that are gonna ride withyou no matter what, They're gonna ride
with you to the end, youknow. So it's kind of like developing
your alliance and knowing that your allianceis yours all the way through until the
end. There's no you know,it's a group effort. It's a team

(01:36:25):
effort. It's a group win win, you know, what I'm saying.
So we just gonna split the pot. But when you start getting to that
individuality moment, now you're you're gonnaswitch your group based off of how the
group goes towards your enemy, yousee what I'm saying. So if there's
a coming enemy, and let's justsay the red group, then the red
group of goal against that coming enemy. Well then all of a sudden they

(01:36:46):
said that the enemy goes away,and now there's a new coming enemy.
But the Red group like them,but the Yellow group doesn't. So now
you may try to move over tothis other person, you know, a
group. And so it's like,once you get into that individual thing,
the same people that you're asking toprotect you are gonna be the same people
that are not that are gonna begunning for you when it comes to that
final you know. And so Ithink, to me, that's a false

(01:37:12):
friendship. So when people like whenCarl was saying, we're friends, we're
friends, we're friends, and thenBrendan was like, well, real friends
communicate within the eight years, notjust on a show, you know what
I'm saying. And so that's oneof the things people get confused about.
You start calling people friends is toknow we're calling people I guess you can
say business partners on this show,that's what you are. You know,

(01:37:34):
how does this gonna help meet?And how's this going to help you?
And so when you get down tothis individual deal, you kind of got
to put all that friendship stuff tothe side, and you kind of because
your friend may be the dog thatcould take you out, and your friend
may be the one you need tovote out immediately in this case, you
know, because you know, oh, my friend can't beat Keithler in the

(01:37:55):
hall. Bro, my friend can'tbe Brad in this mission or whatever I'm
saying. Or my friend can't beKara in this so I need to go
ahead and put her in against herso that I can get her out.
So now I got an easier pathto victory, you know. So that's
very tough. I still love theteam aspect because I love to see characters

(01:38:16):
develop. And what I'm saying aboutcharacters not really you know, you know,
we're like we're playing a character.But I love to see people grow
and learn to see each other.Because also, not only do you find
good stuff out about people, butyou find bad stuff out about people.
You may say, well, well, all this time I thought you and
I were you know, in theright direction, only come to find out
you were using me. So thatcreates a little drama too. In that

(01:38:36):
aspect. When it came to howwe were playing with the stars, you
know, that was kind of youknow, new of course, but it
made perfect sense. And I wasthinking at first, Okay, well what
if I get a star. Atthe beginning, I was like, cool,
I'll take it, because that's justextra motivation for me not to lose,

(01:38:59):
you know, because and even thinkabout it, some of these people
are in the bottom group but nevergo into elimination at all, you know
what I mean. And then there'ssome people that go into elimination two,
three, four times, you know, but who are worthy opponents because maybe
they were playing a team game.They probably were the strongest person on their
team, but they probably were notthe most well liked or the ones that

(01:39:24):
didn't have the best relationship, youknow, throughout everybody. And I even
spoke to the whole group about that, you know, like in the first
episode, if you noticed, Isaid, well, if we're talking about
relationships and that's what we're basing ourvotes on, I don't have a relationship
with anyone, So that means thatwas writing on the wall for me,

(01:39:44):
Like Keith, look where you're gonnago away it every time they give a
chance to put you in, youknow, and so stuff like that.
I don't like that aspect of itbecause I think you're not giving a person
a fair shot. But you know, I understand that's the nature of the
beasts, you know what I mean. So yeah, in the end,
in the end, the game isgoing to create the drama it is,

(01:40:09):
you know, like it's it's it'sgonna the walls are eventually gonna close in.
But I think everything you just saidis just like completely on point,
like if you don't have the relationships, like uh but yeah, anyway,
that's that's pretty much all I got. I was gonna ask him, I
was gonna ask him about the riseand fall of MTV. But maybe you

(01:40:30):
can ask him that on stage.Yeah, we'll say that because look,
his season ain't over yet. Sowe have some more of Challenge All Star
Season four to cover with you,which we will do live on stage.
City Winery the only place to getthe maniac Malback Limit Edition Challenge Mania Wine
over on June eighth in Atlanta,and hopefully it's the first of many for
you, my friend. Thank youso much for coming on the show.

(01:40:51):
It was a delight. Guys,if you heard this and you want to
watch it, go to challengemaniacs dotcom you want to submit questions for our
future guests and everything like that,and keep tell everybody where to follow you,
where to support you, if youhave anything to plug and everything like
that. Well, I'm on Instagramat Keithla Hair k E F l A
h A r E, Facebook,Keifler Hair, uh Twitter, keith laer

(01:41:15):
Hair. I think Keithla Delon Hairand coach Keithla Hair. So if you
type up my name, you knowyou're gonna find me. Don't just type
up Keifler because I've seen now thatyou type up Keithler on Twitter it's some
anime female that does porn or ormaybe or maybe double up you like this.

(01:41:38):
If you got a little freaking youknow, you can do that too.
But make sure, man, y'allhit me up on all social media.
You know, I'm trying to growmy social media uh followers up because
I have my stuff on private forthe longest, you know, for the
longest. I took it off ofprivate right before they when when they told
us the episode was gonna be released, I went ahead and took it off
of private. So my follower countis down, and I need you all

(01:42:00):
to you know, bump me up, you know, so that I can
get you know, so hope,try to get some sponsorships and stuff,
you know, things like that.Man. But well, let's mobilize the
maniacs. If you heard this interview, if you enjoyed Keifla, follow him
everywhere, make sure you're not followingthe other one unless you're old enough and
everything like that. And following thatmovie, maybe you don't open it up
at the Starbucks online. We've allgotten into trouble a time or two with
that. So Keifa, thank youso much, my man. I look

(01:42:23):
forward to seeing you on June eighthand Atlanta and d I'll give you the
last word. Yeah, I'll inviteyou to collab whenever I do this,
So maybe that'll bump bump you upa little bit. Yeah, we'll be
blowing you up. We'll be blowingyou up. If you see Keifla collabing,
if you see him everywhere on socialmedia, follow all right, everybody,
thank you for listening to Challenge Maniaand we appreciate you. Nice to

(01:42:44):
meet you. Keep fla thank you, then take care of your lady dude.
All right, guys, this sendsyour time here on Challenge Mania.
Take care of yourselves and hopefully we'llsee in the future. The Challenge Mania

(01:43:20):
Shop is open. Head over tochallenge Mania dot Shop today for the best
way to support the podcast while lookinggood doing it. New designs and items
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Ep. 420: Kefla Hare

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