Episode 1170: Paranoid American

GUEST: Thomas Gorence: comic book publisher, military veteran, ex-Disney animator
Paranoid American Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/paranoid-american/id1714285558

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, welcome to the program, Charles Moskowitz. Here, by
the way, we have call ins on this show. I
don't know too many programs online can do that, but
we do it the old fashioned way like you would
do with a radio talk show, where you can literally
call in at five o'weight six, three seven, five, five
nine six the numbers listed here on the screen five

(00:24):
o weeight six three seven, five five nine six. Not
taking TikTok today, mainly TikTok's canceled the account. So but
I am up on rubble if you want to send
in a chat or whatever. Anyone listening knows I'm really
hamhanded when it comes to technical matters. My guest is
Thomas Gorenz from the Paranoid American. Thomas is a comic

(00:50):
book publisher, a military veteran, an ex Disney animator. Thomas
and I met on donuts excellent program recently where we
discussed some of the origins and doings of the international
web of secret societies that seem to marvel all of

(01:10):
our establishment institutions, both political, economic, and cultural. Thomas, thanks
for joining me.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Thank you man, and thank you Donut for introducing us.
And also that's dangerous. You just have live call ins.
How does that usually go. I've been flirting with that idea,
but I'm not sure if I can handle it well.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
I mean, I've only gotten a few calls, but I'm
just introducing it. I hope to in the coming year,
as I feel more encouraged over what I hope is
a lessening of censorship, I think that I'm going to
be able to do broadcasting more consistently, maybe even every
day at a set time. I think that helps, in
which case I'm hoping to get what calls by having

(01:55):
people get used to seeing and listening to the program
at the same time day and covering current issues. And
if someone calls in, I get a beat, I press
a button, and off they go. The only thing I
ask is community standards within reason. And also I'm not
on YouTube, so I don't have to worry about that.

(02:18):
The main station is Rumble for the show, but also
Rock Finn is very good. I don't know if you
know about them, but there are alternative medias. I think
when President Trump was we moved from office and they
deleted his TikTok, his Twitter account where he had something

(02:40):
like thirty million followers, right after what has now been
proven to have been a government inside job, that being
the Capital Protest. There was an expectation, I think on
the part of the establishment that they'd be able to
really launch a full censorship, and they deleted thousands of programs.

(03:06):
They deleted Parlor, which at that time was really moving
up and taking on Twitter, which was the ultimate in censorship.
But it didn't work. It didn't work because people got
involved in alternative sites like Getter and Rumble and rock
Fin and bit Shoot and a bunch of others, So

(03:27):
you know, freedom prevailed, and ultimately because they could not censor,
I think that's what led to a huge victory for
President Trump and his incredible comeback, which and I think
that the vote there and the level of that was
much bigger than we even know. But here we are

(03:48):
with the hope as we enter into the new year,
and I do feel hopeful that we're going to be
entering into a time when more people in this country
are aware of the insidious agenda of an establishment that
does not have their interests at heart, and so I

(04:09):
think that's what this is all about. Now. Thomas, could
you talk a little bit about how you got involved
in broadcasting and what were some of the events, if any,
that kind of woke you up to realities in our
political and social system.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
If we're talking specifically broadcast or doing podcasts. The main
thing was far less noble. It was just that I've
been publishing comics about conspiracies for a decade and operating
it from behind the scenes just wasn't really cutting it
as much. And I got to guest on a couple

(04:47):
friends podcasts and I immediately like the interactive nature of it,
Like it basically completely replaced my media consumption where instead
of watching a movie or binging a TV series which
you can't ask questions of and you can't really engage
with aside from going online and posting your opinion and
getting into arguments over, but actually having long format conversations

(05:12):
with friends and new and interesting people. That ended up
being the real, like motivation to keep me going. But
like the original spark was, I just needed to promote
my wares, you know, I just needed to my chotschki's
and it turned into something way different than that. So
it's yeah, it didn't start with noble causes, and even

(05:33):
now i'd even consider it really noble. It's just to
entertain myself and almost like a self fulfilling need to
engage with people more directly than just reading an article
or reading their bio or something. So those are really
the main reasons. But I mean, I've been I guess
you would say, like awake. I think since maybe the
mid nineties when I first searched for the term Illuminati

(05:57):
and came across secret Teachings of all ages, came across
Fritz Springmeyer's work. I think I was like twelve or
thirteen at the time, and then right from there it
was just a lifelong fascination with secret societies and occult
knowledge and sacred geometry and everything in between.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
So then the writing of comic books on conspiracies obviously
led you to do some deep research to find out
to get developed some interesting themes and characters and storylines,
and that led you to a study of the international
secret of establishment that in modern times I think is
exemplified by the Illuminati. And also this long form format

(06:42):
where you can really stretch out and talk with someone
rather than these canned interviews that we see on the
mainstream media. It does lead to a deeper understanding and
greater thought and greater exchange, and it's one of the
great powers of this new media. So I certainly get that. Now.
You also worked as an animator for Disney, so I

(07:05):
need to ask you about this. You know, my daughter
was a big fan of Disney growing up, and so
obviously I was drawn into a lot of those movies,
and we loved them together. We'd watched them. We had
a couple of real favorites. Probably our biggest favorite was
not a well known Disney movie called The Aristocrats. Of
course we love that. We both could recite passages from it.

(07:30):
We thought it was hilarious, and you know, since then
we kept up with it and we'd go to the
new Disney movies and Frozen and everything else. But I
always thought that there was something going on with Disney,
and you couldn't quite put your finger on it. I know,
when we went to disney Land in Los Angeles, my daughter,

(07:53):
I think she was probably about seven or eight years
old at the time, she was literally terrified over going
into certain things, and I didn't totally understand why, but
now I kind of do, because there was something going
on that her radar picked up on that mine didn't.
In some of these things, I mean that the that

(08:15):
when you look at you know, snow white in the
Seven Dwarfs, it's horrifying what was going on there, I
mean cutting now, you know, just the violence of it.
And since then, I've seen some videos which shows some
pretty explicit sexual images and violent images that are worked

(08:36):
into the fabric that are not like openly but once
it's the kind of thing that once you see it,
you can't unsee it. And I'm wondering, in your opinion,
is that something that is just put in there because
the animators are goofing around and they want to kind
of drop you know, what they call easter eggs, or

(08:57):
you know, they're just to kind of get a laugh.
Or is this something more sinister going on here? I mean,
is this something that the management knows about and that
they're promoting it that they want and if so wide.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
I mean I would say yes to both, but in
not in maybe congruent ways, like they might not be
as directly intertwined in such a simple sort of fashion
for that. So let me rewind and just preface this
with the term Disney animator is very charged. Like if
people assume that I was like hand illustrating lion king

(09:32):
sometimes when this comes out. I was known as a tweener,
which is an in between her which means that the
big like the big illustrators with the big names on
the movies and everything, they draw the key frames, They
draw the individual action poses where they these big establishing shots,
and then all of those frames in between. If someone's

(09:53):
like throwing a ball or something, right, the key framer
will show the character holding the ball make a goofy face,
and then they'll draw another key frame after they've thrown
the ball. But all those frames in between, those are
sort of up to this. These other teams of lower
tier sort of animators called in betweeners or just tweeners

(10:14):
for short. So without going on a whole entire diet
tribe of like the technical aspect, I was essentially a
tweener for Disney for a long time, specifically doing digital animation.
They had already transition in the digital I started working
there in two thousand and six, I believe, and at
that point it was a lot of just three D
and two D sort of software packages. So I did

(10:37):
that for about ten years. A little over ten years.
I got to work with a lot of their IP
and this was on the backlot of Disney World. I
went to Disneyland a couple times. I went to the
Burbank studios for some like work meetings and stuff, but
for the most part I worked on the back lot
in the Royo Disney post production facility. Walt Disney World

(10:58):
directly attached the animation, and so I've seen a lot
of stuff. I've heard a lot of all the different
theories and to directly address what you're getting at of
like the sexual like symbolism that gets worked in some
of the violent stuff. You even mentioned snow white in
the Seven Doors. All of those things represent vastly different

(11:20):
chunks of like Disney's chronology. Just even the difference between
La and Orlando, for example, is like two completely different
timelines for Walt Disney, I think he saw what was
going on in LA and realized he needed more space,
more land, more freedom to do exactly what he had
in vision, and it was just never gonna happen in La.

(11:41):
Side Tangent, your daughter was right to be a little
bit creeped out by disney Land. Aside from all the
Disney vibe, that actually is the site of one of
the most gruesome theme park fatalities that I've ever read
about in existence. It was the who framed Roger Ride. Anyways,

(12:01):
if you look into that, it's one of the worst
things that have ever happened in Disney Park. Disney World
claims that they haven't had any like catastrophic fatalities that
same way, although I can get into that a little
bit later, because that's one of the weird Disney anomaly
kind of like fabrications, like one of those illusions. Okay,

(12:22):
the sexual stuff here, if we go back to the
nineteen thirties, nineteen forties, like some of the earliest Disney movies,
and I've got a series called a Cult Disney that
we've been watching every single feature length Disney animation from
Snow White all the way up to I think we're
around two thousand and six right now. We just saw
cars every single movie. So yeah, I've absolutely seen Aristocats.

(12:47):
Even Aristocats has some of these kind of things worked
into it. Fun fact, that was the very first Disney
movie I believe that took place in the same time
period in which it aired. Almost every other Disney movie
prior to them kind of took place in the past,
and a lot of it was based around that, so
that's an interest. It didn't work out for them as well,

(13:09):
so they departed from that a little bit. The other
thing that I think, and maybe the most nefarious we'll
get to the sex stuff. The most nefarious thing that
Disney does is Twofold and they these ones are completely intertwined.
One of these is coming from a conspiracy. There's ten
halt point of view. It's just trauma based mind control,

(13:29):
trauma based programming. But over the course of watching all
these movies for a cult Disney, we've kind of come
up with this phrase. I think I heard it somewhere else.
I'm not going to take credit for it, but called
the Disney proxy and the Disney proxy. What the reason
why I call it a proxy is because very early
in every single Disney movie, the protagonist, which is usually

(13:52):
going to be a kid, is going to get separated
from their authority figure might be their parents, might be
an older brother, it could be anything, but they get
severed from this authority figure. And what happens is once
that authority figure is removed from the scene, the first
thing that you're gonna see on the screen like clockwork.
There's like a formula it's going to be this ip,

(14:13):
this intellectual property owned by Disney. It's also going to
coincidentally be on lunchboxes and T shirts and Happy Meal toys.
So this proxy, it's it's half trauma based mind control,
and then it's also half NLP anchoring, where you know, hey,
you're in this weird lost state. Your parents have been
removed from you, You've been kidnapped, your parents have died,

(14:35):
whatever fill in the blank, whatever tragedy happens. Oh, but
guess what. We're gonna make it better. Here's Thumper. Oh,
we're gonna make it better. Here's Bambi Er. You know,
it's like some different version of intellectual property, and that
I think somewhat nefarious because it's a formula that you
can see them play time and time again. But also

(14:56):
the sort of fabian end goal of this is to
weaponize nostalgia. It's to like anchor something so deeply in
your mind as a child that you will willingly and
almost celebratory like pass it on to your kids. Let's
go see this Disney movie together. Oh, it's like it
becomes a babysitter to a lot of people the Disney library.

(15:18):
So that that's the most nefarious in the shortest amount
of time that I can explain that, Like, the most
nefarious aspect of Disney is weaponizing nostalgia. It's why they're
willing to spend money on movies that seem like they
flop over and over again. It's because it's worth more
to them to own a real estate inside your brain
and all your kids' brains, more so than the short

(15:40):
term gain.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
So then you seem to be saying that it's it's
kind of a financial thing. It's you know, they kind
of are institutionalizing their you know, their their business as
something that's going to perpetrate, and that's kind of through
the means of promoting nostalgia. Mean, I think that the
idea of separating the child, and I think of Pinocchio

(16:04):
is an example of that. And Bambi, of course, the
mother is just killed and they show that it's horrible,
it's very painful, you had a gunshot. And then the
child is brought into a situation which I don't want
to suggest that it opens up the door to pedophilia. However,
since we're going there, it's sort of like in a

(16:26):
situation that's morally ambiguous, I mean, I think that Pinocchio
is a good example where he enters into this world
of almost where everything goes. I mean, he walks into
this land, and you know, it's at a time when
a person is young enough that they haven't yet developed
their independent reason abilities. I wonder if there's some kind

(16:50):
of an agenda with that. It kind of first of all,
it infantilizes people because you become like permanently childlike. But second,
you're put into a situation of moral ambiguity where you
know you're open to who knows what am I way
off based on that or no?

Speaker 2 (17:10):
I mean even again, if you remove even just the
sexualization part of it, which I promise we'll get into,
because that's one of the biggest claims of all of
Disney and a hidden message. But let's just take like Pinocchio,
which you brought up, and you brought up Snow White,
the Seven Doors, both of those original stories. Pinocchio was
based on I think like an Italian activist, Like it

(17:32):
was political activism. May I don't want to conflate it
by oversimplifying it, but it was like sympathetic to Italian
anarchism in certain circles. But the premise of Pinocchio was
that they really were kidnapping children and forcing them to
work manual labor. So those scenes where they turn them
into donkeys and they turn them into these donkeys that

(17:54):
are just like, you know, basically animal labor, that was
a very real analogy to what was really happening to
Italian children during the time the original Pinocchio was written.
There's also really deep sort of Rosicrucian aspects you can
get into, like pineal gland and stuff, But one of
the mundane and practical versions of this were actual children

(18:16):
being exploited, and the writer of Pinocchio was basically trying
to shine a little bit more light on that, and
again adopted almost directly by the Disney movie snow Waiting.
The Seven Dwarves. This is another thing that was based
on at least three different historical accounts, all the way
down to the talking mirror. This was an actual item

(18:36):
that was said to have existed in two or three
different families histories dating back I think at least to
the fourteen or fifteen hundreds. But on top of that,
The Seven Dwarfs was also sort of this euphemism for
sending children into the mines because their tiny little bodies
could get into the little nooks and crevices better. So

(18:59):
there are law of analogies of even darker. I mean
that the sexual connotation adds to it, but deep, not
even that far beneath the service of these Disney movies.
The original concepts were all about child exploitation. So if
you if you just throw the sexual aspect on top
of that, it's not like a far skip and a

(19:20):
jump from forcing, you know, like like kidnapping children and
forcing the living minds, and then someone saying like, oh,
when they had sex with them too, It's like, okay, yeah,
no shit they.

Speaker 1 (19:30):
I mean, look, but you're describing actually doesn't bother me.
It's actually a good political commentary. You know, children being
exploited by in the in the nineteenth century right right
up till today. But what I see is kind of
a more modern aspect to it, which is, you know,
sex trafficking and sexual exploitation. Do you think that that

(19:54):
is something that was a conscious part of this. I mean,
I've heard a lot of legends, for example, and I
would say legends about Walt Disney himself in that regard,
who I always thought was a great man but I
still do. But yeah, he was deep according to all
the stuff out there, and that's what we're talking about,

(20:15):
and I'm not here to enduss any of it. He
was deeply involved with secret societies and maybe there was
some kind of an agenda going on there. What do
you think?

Speaker 2 (20:25):
So this is probably the one that comes up the most,
is like Walt Disney being you know, all of these
things I've done, I think a fairly deep dive into
this from a bunch of different angles. I've read the
most critical, I've read the most complimentory, complimentary sort of
books all about Disney and his biography, and I've talked
to people that work directly with him in animation studios

(20:49):
and stuff. So quirky guy, workaholic. The secret society angle
is a very unique one because Walt Walt Disney, and
let me go on just the tiniest of tangents here,
because it makes the most sense and it gives the
most breadth to like how complex this guy was, so
Walt Disney. Growing up, he actually had a very strained

(21:09):
relationship with his dad in particular, and through this he
had convinced himself that he himself was kidnapped as a
child that he must have belonged to royalty or some
much more noble family line, and he was kidnapped and
forced to live with these oppressors. Almost it almost sounds
like that archetypal Disney princess locked up in a castle

(21:31):
waiting for a prince charming aspect. Right, So he he
already had grown up like this, and when he was
very young he joined the Delay, the Order de Malay,
which is essentially cub Scouts for freemasons. That's the best
way I can put it. Twelve to twenty I think
twelve to twenty one to join dem.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Parents who are Mason's I think in order to do
that maybe.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Or you have to have some kind of a parental
or like authority figure that is registered as a Mason. Well,
here this is way more interesting than just him being
day Malay. He not only was he Da Malay, but
his direct mentor was the creator of the day Malay Order,
like the original founder. So this would be like if
you joined the boy Scouts, but you would be burying

(22:17):
the lead to not mention. Oh but I was also
mentored by the guy that invented the cub Scouts, So
there's that angle to it from everything that I've ever
been able to tell. Once he he aged out of
day Malay, he never joined the Freemason's proper. He never
joined any other secret order except for Bohemian Grove. He

(22:40):
was absolutely a member. There's documented evidence of him drawing
sketches and signing stuff. But he also didn't get with
the Bohemian Grove crowd as much, even though it was
kind of his crowd, just people that exploited artists. That
was like the original DNA. But he had another one
called the Ranchetto's Vista do is the Visiting Ranchers, which

(23:03):
he considered to be like a more manly version of
Bohemian Grove. He wanted to get like an actual outdoorsy
nature experience from it. But he went to Grove. He's like,
these are just a bunch of rich guys and nice
cabins doing you know, gay stuff all the time.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
That's said, it was very faggoty, right, I.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Mean, well, yeah, boys will be boys, and they're.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
All Alex Jones was able to get in there with
the camera and show the burning of the this effigy
and this I don't know if he actually caught on film.
The idea that that there might have been some human sacrifice.
I'm not saying there was, but you know, just it's
a pretty troubling and pretty weird occulted group, and it

(23:45):
tends to attract Republicans.

Speaker 2 (23:49):
I guess it's a you know, really a lot like
long interesting story on how they found it too. I'll
stay on track though, because it is my favorite, absolute
favorite topics. So so Disney is this princess in a
castle in his own mind, he gets raised into this
sort of you know, freemasonry for kids, sort of you know,

(24:12):
secret society in some ways, and then after he exits this,
there's no doubt in my mind that he carried those
occult and those esoteric views with everything that he did.
It was a huge inspiration in how much he adopted
and kept true some of the Grim's fairy tales, all
of Snow White and the Seven Dwarves could also be
interpreted almost as like Rosicrucianism, which I guess would just

(24:35):
be like a much older, more religious version of day Malay.
So that form of Walt Disney being you know, in
the occult and in secret society is absolutely no doubt whatsoever.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Not to mention Fantasia, right.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
But every single move, honestly, every single movie, even aristocats
can all sort of be tied into these like esoteric teachings. Although,
and this is why I mentioned that there's these different
phases of his life and la and Orlando is a
huge portion of that. That once he starts working on
Walt Disney World in Orlando, he kind of has this

(25:13):
different vision. He's thinking about Epcot, the Experimental Protocol Community
of Tomorrow, and like he's trying to do something more
than cartoons and more than theme parts. At this point,
he wants to make his own city, maybe country, maybe,
who knows where it was going to go after that.
But as soon as he starts ultra like hyper focusing
on Walt Disney World, he doesn't have as much say

(25:34):
as much anymore in the animation wing. And then as
time goes on, he just becomes a delegator as opposed
to boots on the ground, you know, rolling up his
sleeves and doing the things, which is natural for anyone
that's at the head of this huge global conglomerate that
keeps scaling and scaling and scaling. So when we talk
about aristocrats and anything after that, there's really no participation

(25:56):
from Walt Disney proper at that point. At this point,
and I guess to summarize the whole of Cult Disney
series is the movie Fantasia is a literal spell, some
literal magical ceremony that creates the world of Disney. It
creates an entire universe known as the Walt Disney Universe
that will outlive us all because it's now an eggregre

(26:18):
it is one of the most powerful eggregors. They sort
of introduce all the different archetypes, all the DNA that
goes into the rest of the movies. Even characters are
introduced in Fantasia that you see recurring out through other
Disney movies to come for you know, over a century
at this point, are getting close to it. So just
the fact that Fantasia exists is that original magic incantation spell.

(26:42):
So yeah, all the cult all the way down, all turtles.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
Well, and plus there's some very frightening scenes in Fantasia
involving nuclear activity. And I think the last Disney movie
that Walt Tissey was directly involved in was Mary Poppins.
I think I could be wrong.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Also another movie about child exploitation, because they put so
much emphasis on the chimney sweep and how lucky the
chimney sweeps are. But if you look at actual chimney
sweeps during that time period, there were kids. They were
sending kids into these chimneys to sweep them out because
adults wouldn't fit the.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Cold get up there. Yeah, they had wiry they could
fit into the crevices. Interesting but so But but you
don't think that. I mean, it sounds like we're talking
about influences on Disney's worldview and and kind of the
arcultic element to it, and this fantasy world that he
wanted to create and project into the future with Epcot,

(27:42):
which is, as you say, that's city of the future.
Do you think there was a more conscious aspect of
this in that Disney might have been literally coordinating with
you know, secret society people. I mean, I mean, was it,
you know, kind of like part of a World War element.
Was he involved, for example, in the post World War

(28:04):
two federalist of society movement or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
It's really hard to pin Disney down in particular on
a specific There is one thing, and this is from
Dark Prince or Hollywood's Dark Prince. I think is this
unauthorized biography that the Disney family absolutely hates, but it
presents this case that he was sort of working in

(28:29):
like a McCarthyist way to root out communists and the
animation industry in particular. And I'm glad you brought this
up because this ties into that Disney growing up felt
like he was this princess trapped in a castle by
his captors, the FBI, or that that might have been
the FBI. I think FBI j Edgrew Hoover in particular,

(28:51):
basically gave Walt Disney Special Agent in charge status in
exchange for him to give up any sort of Communist
information or root outies that he could in the industry.
And in an exchange for that, they actually told Disney
they had found his real father. His real father was
a royal blood. He was a king of Spain at

(29:13):
some point or you know, his family line or kings
of Spain, and that if you just help us out
with these FBI matters, we'll put these connections together for you,
and you know, we'll give you some of this research
that they had uncovered. And I believe that they were
just putting a care on a string for him. They
were exploiting a character flaw or you know, maybe some

(29:35):
deep rooted issue with him. But this is absolute, close
to proof, depending on how much you believe the Special
Agent in Charge documents. But if that were actually happening,
then at a government level, absolutely Disney was covertly spying
on his peers and reporting back to the government in
exchange for benefits and secret information that someone else had.

(29:57):
I mean, how else would you describe a secret society
and just an intelligence organization? So right, I mean, the
example you can extrapolate all of the other ones that
you know, if he was in the Rancheros, and if
he was in Bohemian Grove, and if he was still
an appendant of day Malay. He did draw Mickey as
day Malay numerous times, so he was actively recruiting in

(30:18):
that way.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
And also, I mean, as you say, the FBI was
kind of the first literal legal open enthronement of a
secret society into the United States. And then of course
that was advanced on the Truman with the National Security Act,
which created the CIA and the National Security National Security
Agency and all the rest. An interesting book about this

(30:43):
was written by Professor Michael J. Glennon who wrote the
book Double Government. He was a professor Emeritis at Fletcher's School.
He's served the Obama administration. He's an insider, but he
kind of blew the whistle on a lot of this,
even though I had him on my show and he
was very he didn't like me at all. But yet

(31:04):
he admitted that, right, I mean, he was like, yeah, okay,
you know, he didn't deny anything I brought up, but
he was unhappy with me for bringing it up, even
though it's in his book. Anyway, I recall being also
at the Disney Museum in Los Angeles when we visited
disney Land, and I remember that it went through great

(31:25):
lengths to show Disney's lineage as going back to the
Normans and William the Conqueror, and it traced a name,
and so Disney was very concerned with bloodlines and ancestry.
I don't know if he was into the Committee of
three hundred. I mean, who knows, but right the going

(31:48):
back to the Roman times with the which I mentionally
became the Venetian bloodline. But that does seem to be
a theme. I think in his work. It's a very
kind of Gothic element of like super power and magical
power being held by certain people who had high positions.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
So Disney, this is really interesting thread to look at it.
Like if let's not say literally in the the Committee
of three hundred, the Council of three hundred, but that
Disney would obvious if such a thing were in operation
during Disney's lifetime, then Disney would represent this massive opportunity
to you know, influence the public, just not just American public,

(32:34):
but the entire globe. Right, Disney had a massive surface
area in that regard. But when I think of like
those shadowy occult figures, like an act, you know, a
literal Illuminati, at some point the actual Illuminati members rarely
want themselves to be the figurehead, like an actual scapegoat
or someone you can point a finger of or draw

(32:54):
a picture of. So Disney likely would have been a
very useful I would like say, an asset as opposed
to a CIA agent, a CIA asset as opposed to
an agent. He's an FBI asset, you know, so he
would clearly be in all those roles, and he did.
He made propaganda movies directly for the government, many of
them were top secrets, so he was in every definition

(33:16):
of the word secret societies if you expand that to
include government and military, which I absolutely do. I mean,
the cult of Mythists was essentially the first uh military
you know, intelligence agency, right, So if you can extrapolate
from there, it's really no different. We're just kind of
sho you mean.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
The ancient cult of mythicists during during like post Roman times,
Is that.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
What you mean? Correct? Yeah? Well, I mean, I mean, yeah,
the longest threat ever. But all of that ceremonial magic
and sexual orgies and child sacrifice, this was state religion
in UH, in Phoenicia and in Carthage up until the
Romans stomped out Carthage. But the Romans didn't completely stomp
out ceremonial magic and orgies and child sacrifice. They just

(33:59):
said it's only for the rich people and the male
military members at first, and then never again was it
supposed to ever be done outside. It was no longer
supposed to be exoteric. Now was permanently esoteric. And I
think that that's sort of the longest thread that you
can tie here, well.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
One underground after the Romans destroyed Carthage, and there's according
to Roman historians, when the Romans went into carthage. There
was such abominable practices that they literally were throwing up.
They were like literally sick of what they were seeing.
But of course, this is what the Bible warns us about.

(34:37):
This is what you know, the Book of Genesis. I mean,
there's a thread all through it about the admonition against
idle worship, worship of graven images. It wasn't just worshiping
a piece of wood, you know, or like a rock
or something. In the case of Moloch, this granite statue
which would have a burning furnace in the belly, you

(34:58):
go in and throw your baby into that as a
way to appease the gods. It had to do with
all the practices around the idol, and all of it
was we can't even imagine what they were doing, but
it was all state sponsored, and it was all run
by the sort of government that would operate behind the
scenes and use this idol as their mouthpiece to manipulate

(35:24):
their masses and to keep people docile and to use
you know, sexual vice and moral all kinds of crap
to keep people like kind of off center, infantalized, you know,
you know, distracted, and the idea. It's interesting that you say,
I mean that the Romans basically tried to stamp it

(35:45):
out and did so with Carthage, but that it went underground.
That's interesting.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
It literally went underground. They took what was happening above
ground and state sponsored is maybe even under selling it.
Maybe state manned would be a better way of describing
this ceremonial magic, you know, sexual orgies, child sacrifice. This
wasn't just hey, if you want to do it, we're
cool with it. This was like you better show up

(36:12):
at seven am with your newborn to throw them into
this fire or else like. So there was very much
a state mandated aspect of this that you could not
escape it. So when when the Romans came, that literally
went from being done out in public where you know,
the neighboring cities could see it happening and saying, well,
let's not be like those guys. This is like the

(36:32):
biblical aspect of like those Carthaginians, or like they're worshiping
Moloch over there. That was basically saying like, don't do
what they're doing over the river, you know, in so
many words. But then the Romans just stomped that out
above ground and literally made them do it in caves underground,
Like all the cult demythrus original meetings usually happen in

(36:53):
underground caverns or under temples or in subterraneous sort of settings.
So it's a.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Lot in Italy with underground Rome and you find tunnels
and catacombs and passages and even under the Vatican. I
mean they say this, there's underground, almost an underground city
that's as big as a football field with who knows,
you know, who knows what's in there. But and I'm
not pointing a finger with the Vatican. I admire Catholicism.

(37:20):
That's not the issue here. But what you're saying here, Thomas,
is sensational. You're saying that this cult of practices that
was you know, went underground after the destruction of Carthage.
Are you saying that that's still here? I mean you're
suggesting that this.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, yeah, not just suggesting, I'm outright, you know, directly.
And Fantasia maybe being the best example, my favorite scene
even growing up, like the scariest one where they show
this huge black demon god with two horns. He literally
presents child sacrifice and he represents pagan gods and the

(38:00):
two hoarded horned bull, god of agriculture and fertility. The
actual name of that god is Chernibog, which means black
God and I thinks in Serbian or Slovenian. And this
happens on Wallpurger's Night, which is essentially like an actual
pagan ritual in which these witches would get together and

(38:20):
they would do orgies and sacrifice in order to basically
release their own magic out into the world. And the
whole premise of the magical ceremony and ritual is to
keep doing that over and over again in that exact
same spot, in the exact same incantations for centuries, so
that it harnesses real magic. So that premise is what

(38:41):
Fantasia is. Fantasia is just a animated version of these,
you know, ancient rituals to not just Churnibog, but every
other two horned deity that kind of came before it.
And with through syncretism, it's easy to sort of like
oversimplify and just like combine different cultures and religions, but

(39:01):
that's kind of what we're doing here, because that's what
Fantasia is. Fantasia is syncretism animated all together in like
a two hour presentation.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Now, I mean, I want to just move history up
a little bit here, because maybe I tend to embrace
conventional history here. But I do believe that the Israelites
were the first attempt to reform for some of these practices.
The Torah basically laid out moral and ethical laws which
emanated from Sinai, according to the Torah, and which rejected

(39:34):
these practices. Even though the children of Israel struggled with it,
and sometimes they were good and sometimes they weren't, at
least they began the process rolling. And then of course
the Ministry of Jesus resulted in bringing that to the world,
and it was eventually became the official faith of Rome
under Constantine, which took I, as conventionally looking at history,

(39:58):
believe was a good development. Was an attempt to stamp
out these practices and an attempt to bring about a
more moral order in the universe. But you seem to
be suggesting that concurred with that was a continued underground
that continued to operate in this sort of I guess

(40:20):
you might say satanic practices, and that it involved people
at high levels of power of influence, both in government,
culture and economy. Is that true?

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, I'm absolutely and actually this is highly controversial, and
I'm aware of that, although one of the most compelling
takes on this particular dynamic I I've come across so
far is essentially that the Israelites and the Carthaginians, or
the Canaanites, or the Phoenicians, or whatever name you would

(40:52):
give to that sort of crowd that was into the
state mandated magical orgies and sacrifice everything, that really the
Iselites and the Phoenicians, the Carthaginians were worshiping the same god.
It's just that the Canaanites were doing it in this
abhorrent way. And this is where the Israelites were saying, like,
don't do what they're doing across you know, the river

(41:14):
over here, Like if yeah, they're having a great time
with their agriculture. They're worshiping these agricultural gods, and they're
making these sacrifices. They're doing sex out in public, and
business is booming. They've got crops, you know, all over
the place that's actually working. And they had just come
from what the desert even you know, even if that's
just metaphor, it was really the difference between desperation and

(41:36):
abundance and it was a way of saying, like, just
because they're going through a boom right now, do not
adopt their particular practices of worship. But that also means
that when it gets stamped out, all those people that
were doing so well and had accumulated all sorts of capital,
not just you know, wealth, but like political capital, goodwill

(41:57):
amongst all the other people they had spread their riches
of aca culture from, they obviously can flex that. By
flexing that, it's too well, let's preserve this culture that
gave us everything that we wanted, but obviously we can't
do it out in public anymore. We have to only
do it at night, you know, burning charcoal and mill
the forest, or going into these caves, or better yet,

(42:17):
join the military. Where the military you could be easily
weeded out, just depending on not only your physical aptitude,
but if you were like in it, you know, if
your mind was in the same mentality as everyone else.
And they also had the luxury of just killing you
if you applied and you didn't get the job. They
weren't just like, okay, go home. They could just eliminate
you for any number of reasons. So it was a

(42:39):
very methodical and powerful way to preserve everything that had
been going on above ground and make sure that it
maintained itself below ground. And you can there's a wild
tangent we went and get into it. But you can
trace this exact practice go through Tunisia, the northern coast
of Africa, all the way down and to the rest

(42:59):
of our Afrikaan make its way through you know, Haiti
and Dominican Republic and all these like all these other
adaptations of the same sort of fertility rituals, the same
orgies and sex magic and black magic and sacrifice. It
continued even all the way down to the Two Horned Gods,

(43:20):
so it never really got fully stamped out, despite Rome's
best efforts.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
No, but maybe I don't know if I'm taking issue
with you here, but I think that the the Israelite movement,
the thing that made them different than all other nations,
was that they rejected these practices that they guess they
continued with animal sacrifice but not human sacrifice.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Absolutely. No, I figured, you know, we're not in disagreement there.
That the Israelite was a complete reformation of how they
were worshiping. And I guess the contentious part that I
injected there based on other things that I've read, was
that a lot of people claim that these Canaanites were worshiping,
you know, Satan, or they were worshiping some other deity.

(44:01):
But it seems more reasonable and complicated that they were
literally worshiping the exact same God. It's just that the
Israelites were doing that.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
I don't think so only And then I think they
were worshiping idols. They were worshiping Bell and Molac and Asaura,
which were man made idols created by the state, whereas
the Israelites were worshiping something more more transcendent, I mean,
a universal God that was.

Speaker 2 (44:28):
I guess the difference being like one of them was
doing it the right way and one of them was
doing it the wrong way.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Well, I guess you could say that. But but the
thing is that I do think that Christianity brought that
to the world, this idea that you can't create a
god on earth and it's not a man made thing
that a government or that a group of elites can
decide what it is. That there is something that's separate
from our own existence that is real, and that is

(44:55):
you know that we can't manipulate that God is outside
of the ability of the u and being and the
human mind to create or manipulate that we're images of God.
We're not God. That's the sin of the God of Eden.
I mean that Adam and Eve thought that they could
be as God, they could know everything, they could have
cosmic consciousness, eternal life. But they saw they were going

(45:17):
to overthrow God, and that's why they were banished. But
because we're not gods, we're just human beings. You know,
we're imperfect, our perceptions are limited, but we have some
divine revelation that we can look to to craft our lives.
So bringing things up to today, and I think this
is really interesting and I agree with this by the way.

(45:39):
I mean, I think you have this continuous cult that's underground,
that is involved in these practices, that does attract the
highest levels of elite, that has basically become and has
formulated into secret societies. I think it's started in the
Middle Ages. You had the you know, the knights. Templar

(46:01):
was I think infected by it and that's why they
were banished by the pope. You had you know, the
in the then the in the Kirabinari, and in the
eighteenth century, the emergence of the Illuminati and the French Revolution,
so I think we could trace the history of it,
and what you have are an intricate web of secret

(46:23):
societies that's sometimes clashed and other times cooperated, but yet
all maintained almost an alternative existence from everyone else and
yet walked amongst us as every day, every day people.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Well, we have the ones that like who's writing the books.
If everyone's reading the books and on the same page,
someone's got to be writing the books. So there's already
going to inherently be some sort of aspect of of
these like secret societies. Even in Catholicism has opus Day,
which is their version of Freemason. I mean that maybe
the wrong way of phrasing that, but like they could

(46:59):
they can't be compatible with Freemasonry, but still have the
same need to have this internal intelligence structure. So every
every single group seems to form one of these, regardless
of what they call themselves and whether they're political or
religious or apolitical or or what have you, there will
always be this like weird pyramid structure that I think

(47:20):
the Bavarian Illuminati in particular, I think sets the most
obvious template so that if you can understand how the
Illuminati worked and why it worked, why people joined, how
sort of potent that entire structure was, and then just say, okay, yeah,
how do you apply those particular properties to any organization

(47:41):
that technically they become a Illuminati in a way, and
the Illuminati Bavarian Illuminati in particular. I think the way
that explains it the best for me is that they're
selling something that never goes out of style. If you're
if you're trying to sell something to a past or,
a pauper, or a pope or anyone a king. They

(48:05):
might already have the resources to own all the material
goods that you could possibly want to promise them, they
might have all the life experiences. But if you promise
them some sort of arcane knowledge that no one else
has access to. I found this sea scroll, I found
this old book, or I you know, God told me
in this epiphany about how to interpret these symbols that
have been a mystery for ages. Right, I've got all

(48:28):
those secrets. Now you've got a really good sales pitch
that you can ensnare anybody with. And one of the
stipulations again for the Bavarian Illuminati, Okay, well, not only
do you have to give us some actual money and
your time and all this stuff, you know, brain power,
but we also want you to snitch on yourself. You
want you to keep a little diary of all the

(48:49):
dirty little things that you've done and think about, and
everything that your family's doing. And your friends. Just take
a complete diary on everyone. And what they do is
they can slowly form this holographic image of the society
that they're living in, where it's not just people's pretenses,
but what's actually going on behind the scenes. And even better,

(49:09):
if they can recruit everybody in another group somewhere. Let's
say the Illuminati infiltrates one of the high Freemason lodges
and they recruit every person in there. But tell them all,
you're the only one from this entire lodge that we're recruiting.
Don't tell anyone else that we even exist. Take notes
on yourself, take notes on others. But they do that
to the whole lodge. They do it to like thirty

(49:30):
or forty people, right, and now they're all snitching on
themselves and snitching on each other. It becomes this huge
cachet of blackmail. And so now you've got the ultimate
sales pitch. Someone's on the hook and they're giving you money,
and they're giving you time and brain power. They're also
snitching on themselves and others an entire community and pre Internet,

(49:51):
obviously Bavarian illuminati. Whoever's at the top, which would have
been Adam weiss Up, he could act as this all
knowing sort of god on earth where you came up
to him and you were like, hey, I've got a
chemistry question, I've got a religious question, a math question
of science, whatever. He could be the ultimate renaissance man polymath.
Where I was already going to expect like, Okay, I

(50:12):
write you a letter, it's gonna take you know, a
week to get to you, and a week to get
back to me. I might not hear from you for
two or three weeks. That was the norm. So now
Adam Bisop can get a question he doesn't know the
answer to, but he can consult this vast network of
experts that he's recruited from the highest levels everywhere, like
the actual authorities on any matter you can think of.

(50:32):
So now it seems like this Adam Viisop guy's got
all the answers you know, he literally created an intelligence
network based on blackmail, and for those that even maybe
figured out the game of far far too in that
fallacy of sunken costs where it's like, well, now you
know it's gonna be the Emperor wears no clothes, Like,
now I'm gonna look like an idiot if I got

(50:53):
swindled by this guy. So keep that thing going, or
even better yet, kick Adam visop out. Maybe he didn't
have the greatest intentions, but I know what this thing
could be. Let's just keep this thing on track and
make it what it could be, which is sort of
another false premise, righting part, but that particular formula sell

(51:14):
someone knowledge that they can't get otherwise, access to blackmail,
and then acting as some sort of an authority. That's
if you read modern CIA recruiting documents on how to
secure assets or recruit for other agents, it's this exact
same kind of premise. There was something called I think
it was called rats or something which was like repertoire

(51:36):
and opportunity or I forgot what the actual acronym was.
But this is exactly how you sell anyone on any
covert agency.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
Well, I suppose when you strip it down to its
basic essence. It's the it's the lie of the serpent
in the garden of Eden. We can offer you eternal knowledge,
we can offer you eternal life. We can offer you
the meaning of life and full understanding of good and
evil and everything in the universe. In other words, you
can become God. And you know, it was very alluring,

(52:09):
and every generation deals with it. Whittaker Chambers, who is
a communist spy in the United States and who then
turned state's evidence against Algae Hiss and the famous his
trial of nineteen forty eight, and wrote in his autobiography Witness,
that communism is the world's second oldest religion and that

(52:31):
it comes from the goden of Eden metaphorically in that
it's the rule of the universe by man as opposed
to by God. That man will be the highest elite,
an elite of man would be the highest level of knowledge,
and that they would control others of their own good,
and that they would create a utopia. You know, they're

(52:51):
offering utopia, they're offering all the answers to pain of existence,
because you know, we live in a veil of tears,
as Catholics like to say, and that you can alleviate
yourself by seeing this greater knowledge. It's a very alluring
sales pitch. Now, having said that, I think we can
identify the nature of the Illuminati, and you've done that,

(53:15):
and I think your most recent book, Thomas right about.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
Dona and I and we just call Illuminati comic. The
cover actually says, are you being mind controlled by the Illuminati?
Because it's meant to be something someone will walk by
and be like, oh, what's that and pick it up.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Yeah. I mean, look, it's a great concept because it's
based on more than some truths. I mean. The Illuminati
had an agenda that's well known. They wanted to create
a one world order. They wanted to create a one
world religion by getting rid of all of the clerical
and political entities of the day, by getting rid of

(53:52):
all the institutions that promoted those entities, both good and bad.
But the good ones were things like private ownership and
self interest and sovereignty and all of the other things
that allow the humanity to advance and the individual to advance.
They wanted to abolish all of it, which Marx then
went on to describe as false consciousness, and that the

(54:16):
way to get rid of it was well, he wants
to get rid of the Jews, but that's beside the point.
I mean, just whatever, get rid of America, get rid
of the Christianity, as a way to move man into
this one world collective entity where we would all become,
you know, bottomized ants basically. However, having said that, I

(54:37):
don't think it's a complicated situation, and that not all
secret societies were part of this and still are not.
Sometimes I think that there's a necessity for some secretiveness
in certain situations. George Washington, for example, was a member
of a Masonic lodge in Alexandria, which the layout for

(55:01):
the city of Washington, d C. And he received a
letter from a minister named Snyder in New York who said,
you know, I think that your lodge has been infiltrated
by the Illuminati, and you know, I want to alert
you to this. And Washington sent back a letter in
response saying, I'm very well aware of what you're talking

(55:25):
about with the Illuminati, which he referred to as diabolical. However,
I don't believe that they have infiltrated my lodge. I
think that, And yet we know in American history that
they eventually did get major footholds in this country, and
that they developed such organizations as Skull and Bones and others.

(55:46):
But I don't think it's quite. You can't throw the
entire baby out of the bathwater. I know it's complicated,
and we can't know the inner portico because we're not
part of it and we don't know, you know. So
it creates a natural and should create a natural distrust.
But there have been sometimes secretiveness is necessary. I mean,
the Sons of Liberty, for example, in Boston, was developed

(56:09):
on Masonic lines and they affected the Boston Tea Party
which led to the American Revolution. Uh, you know, they
needed secrecy in order to operate and in order to
plan and in order to figure out how to confront
the tyranny of General Gage, who was the British general
who's occupying Boston, and they did it. And I think

(56:33):
that so I think that sometimes when you're in a
situation with this political oppression, you know, people can organize
in secret and make plans in terms of how to
counter it. So it's not you know, ultimately, when these
things become established, they probably are infiltrated by the you know,
the illuminati. But you know, I think we have to

(56:54):
be you know, we have to kind of look at
that this on a case by case.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
What do you think I mean? Yeah, it will just
be like saying any intelligence organization, UH can't really be
inherently good or evil. Some people have inherent distrust of
anything that's secretive. But like you just mentioned, without sons
of liberty working on the backbone of you know, these
Masonic lodges, which at that point a lodge was just

(57:20):
somewhere that you met. Most of those if you've if
you've gone to that area, they're just pubs. They would
just meet at the bar after they kicked everyone else out.
They would hang out and they would you know, make
their plot that was the Masonic lodge was them hanging
out after.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
But they did have a society that was built on
Masonic lines.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Right well well, and and again this is like that
template where they understand that Okay, here's the Masonic template
is that you have to know the code name of
the different people in your lodge, the code name of
the city lodge is in. You wouldn't actually say the
building that you're meeting in. There would be like a
code name for that. There's going to be a secret handshake.

Speaker 1 (57:56):
Maybe it's a way to winnow out people that they
couldn't trust and try to like back, you know, like
verify people who they could and sort of you know,
it is a necessity to that because in a way,
I mean, it sort of stops infiltration by people who
don't have the right intentions.

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Another really practical I guess example, if you lol like
a prohibition era speak easy, Speak easy, you would have
to know someone that was already kind of in that
speakeasy and they give you the password and you knock
three times and they saw that's essentially what you know
that Maybe like this one is just based on gambling
and drinking, but all same this was a secret society

(58:38):
in many ways without maybe even a name to it.
So I think that there is always going to be
a need for these sort of secret another this might
be another contentious point too, but I've heard the most
compelling argument against us was like, well, you know, Jesus
in the Bible is against secrecy. It's the antithesis of secrecy.
But there's one in particular passage, and I'm not a loge,

(59:00):
and that can quote the exact verses. Hopefully someone else
knows this one. But Jesus is going around telling a
whole bunch of people like, I'm not going to go
into town today, and he's basically telling everyone that, you know,
you're not going to be under my purview, don't worry
about it. I'm going to be busy over here. But
then he puts on a disguise and he sneaks into

(59:21):
town anyways, and he observes everybody acting thinking as if
he weren't watching, to just see if they were still
And that's one of these interesting examples of even Jesus
would put on a costume and like sneak into an
area inspire on everyone just to see if they acted differently.
So there is a use for secrecy and deception in

(59:44):
almost any context.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
I mean, I suppose that Jesus' apostles his disciples were
constituted a society that was somewhat closed, and then of
course they then had a trader in them that's in
the form of Judas. But I mean, secret society has
really affected the Irish revolution against the British, It affected

(01:00:06):
the plot to assassinate Hitler, It probably affected the overthrow
of the Soviet Union. So you know, China has possibly
has that too, So I think that there are positive
elements to it. The problem is that it also is
prone to corruption because not only infiltration, but because it's

(01:00:27):
the it's it's often the illegitimate and deviant use of power,
and that that is corrupting and that can have you know,
especially when you have bad people get involved in it,
which inevitably they do, because power, as lord acton said,
power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts. Absolutely, there are very

(01:00:48):
few political figures that are good people.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
I think there's a couple like litmus tests you can give.
One one of those obvious is does your secret society
require blockmail? And if so, it might be one of
the lesser of them. Or is it straight up just money?
Do you just have to pay money in order to
be involved? And in that case it's maybe just any
other regular pyramid scheme. So there's a lot of different

(01:01:13):
aspects to like the good or the bad and the
actual uses of all these. But just like any other
infrastructure or formula or template, can all be corrupted by
you know, someone doing bad things because what they also
represent are these intelligence networks. And I guess now the
concept of secret societies is sort of dying out in

(01:01:37):
a lot of different ways because we've got LinkedIn, and
we've got emails, and we've got private email servers and
discord groups and signal you know, encrypted signal chats. You
can put a bunch of people, and that sort of
eliminates a lot of that original Like would the Sons
of Liberty had to meet up in person at a
pub after hours if they could all just be in

(01:01:58):
an encrypted you know, discord chat, maybe not. Maybe maybe
they never would have actually come together that exact same way.
It was just the limitation of technology, just the same
way that sending letters back and forth in Adam Weissop's
time by like horseback, that might have been their version
of discord. And if they could have just emailed everyone
or just sent like a you know, like a top

(01:02:20):
secret correspondence, would they would have had to have still
done that? I think it would have changed the shape
of all of that. So right now it's harder to say,
like who's the current Illuminati or who the current secret societies.
It's just an email chain, Like the most secret society
on the planet is probably just a whole bunch of
boring email chains at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Right right, although those emails, once they got put into place,
they exist and it's hard to remove them. And there's
a certain amount of transparency around that, even though like
Hillary was like destroying her emails with them, would we
lead it, Yeah, But nevertheless it's still out there and
it's hard to conceal. But I would argue that in

(01:03:03):
modern times, particularly since the launch of the Illuminati in
seventeen seventy six, the secret society infrastructure has become overall corrupted,
and that was advanced by the Rhodes Roundtable Group, which
is at the turn of the century, the Anglo American establishment,
and that it kind of has grown up in other

(01:03:24):
societies and oftentimes there is intersection and interaction. The central
banking establishment, which also launched in the nineteenth century, plays
a major role in it because they get to decide
the value of things. That's a huge power, you know,
they decide how much your property's worth, by how much
currency they emit into the economy. It's a huge power

(01:03:49):
and that they do informally. And it's been written about
if even if you read the work of Carol Quigley,
he gets into this and tragedy and hope, who is
a support of it, and he's a professor at Georgetown University.
That the interaction and intersection between economic, cultural, and political
forces both in this country and around the world, when

(01:04:11):
with each other, has created an atmosphere which can only
be described as an informal world government, and that they
leave in place the official governments, you know, the official offices,
the official ceremonies, but behind the scenes, they increasingly control everything,

(01:04:31):
and that their motives and their means and their agenda
is not holy, Let's just put it that way. And
it's certainly not wholesum in terms of the right of
the individual under God. Anyway, Thomas, I get a run,
And this is really an interesting conversation. We've just touched
on the surface here. I could do that, we could

(01:04:52):
we could talk for hours.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Well, let me tag in really quick toos and you
ask like the sexual Disney Yeah, I just want to
tag in here without going on a wild tangent on it.
But that an interesting dynamic that people seem to leave out,
especially in the earlier Disney movies that they claim get
very sexualized. But those artists, when they weren't drawing cartoons
for Disney, were pretty much drawing pin up artwork. These

(01:05:15):
are also the same artists that were literally would be
working on a feature length Disney animation, get sent off
to war, see combat, see friends die, kill people themselves,
return back to the States, and then finish out that
Disney animation. So the amount of literal trauma that you
know these people were going through, there's a lot baked

(01:05:37):
into those early classic animations. There's so much more than
just just wanting like, hey, let's see if I can
sneak a nipple in this scene here. I think it's
way deeper than that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:49):
Interesting and then you can kind of tell, but it
definitely opens the door, or you might say, a portal
to some insights into the Disney animation series. And it's
something that I think we all sense. Anyways, Thomas, where
can people get a hold of your excellent books? And
I know you have a podcast that's up, the Paranoid

(01:06:10):
American that's available at Apple Podcasts and elsewhere, So let
my viewers know where they can find out more about you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Yeah, if you search for just Paranoid American on any platform,
you'll find something of mine, whether it's a podcast, the
documentary series. You search it on Amazon, you'll find some
of my books, but you'll find all of the stuff
that I got at Paranoid American dot com, which includes
things that I'll never be able to list on Amazon
or elsewhere, like a Hillary Clinton, a drenochrome place at

(01:06:42):
like things like this, a little severed head, and like
a blinking plane. So yeah, I've gotten every kids books,
adult books, stickers, toys, everything. I'm trying to really make
conspiracy theory and occult research fun and approachable to everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
How do you get super power through the blood of
babies anyway?

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Correct? We literally have a book called The Homunculus Owner's
Manual that maybe not babies, but it's about raising homunculous
and then like cutting their head off and spilling their
blood on your toes and you can walk on water
for a couple of days.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Very important work and great imagination too, all right, Thomas listen,
thanks so much for joining me. Great conversation and honor
list to it again sometime.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Thank you, Charles, and thank you doing up for connecting

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
Us, all right, you bet