November 20, 2025 • 50 mins
A powerful conversation with Adrienne Bender as she shares her children’s stories, her journey through loss, and the strength it takes to keep living with purpose and love.
In this heartfelt episode of Chatting with Betsy, host Betsy Wurzel speaks with author, Registered Nurse, and grief recovery specialist Adrienne Bender about her courageous path through unimaginable loss and the resilience that shaped her into the woman she is today. Adrienne became a single mother at seventeen when her son Kyler was born.
She worked tirelessly to build a future—putting herself through college, becoming a Registered Nurse, marrying, and welcoming her daughter Mackenzie. But her life took heartbreaking turns as she faced Mackenzie’s battle with AML leukemia and Kyler’s struggle with addiction. Adrienne shares these stories with honesty, love, and deep reflection. Betsy and Adrienne discuss the impact illness has on the entire family and the emotional toll of losing both of her children and her father in such a short time.
Adrienne also served as a caregiver for her grandfather, giving listeners a raw and real view of how caregiving and grief shape a family’s life. A central theme of their conversation is emotional truth—acknowledging feelings rather than numbing them through unhealthy coping habits. Adrienne emphasizes that healing begins with honesty and compassion toward ourselves. Adrienne continues to honor Kyler and Mackenzie through joyful traditions: placing treats in their Christmas stockings, celebrating their birthdays with massages and dinners, and keeping their memories alive through stories and love. This deeply emotional episode is dedicated to Kyler and Mackenzie, whose lives continue to inspire strength and resilience.
To learn more about Adrienne’s work, speaking, and her book The Almost Miracle Years, visit her website: http://adriennebender.com/
🎙 Chatting with Betsy brings forward real conversations about loss, healing, caregiving, and courage — stories that remind us we are not alone.
https://passionateworldtalkradio.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
💡 At Passionate World Talk Radio, we believe real conversations matter. Stay inspired and keep listening to Chatting with Betsy at www.passionateworldtalkradio.com.
In this heartfelt episode of Chatting with Betsy, host Betsy Wurzel speaks with author, Registered Nurse, and grief recovery specialist Adrienne Bender about her courageous path through unimaginable loss and the resilience that shaped her into the woman she is today. Adrienne became a single mother at seventeen when her son Kyler was born.
She worked tirelessly to build a future—putting herself through college, becoming a Registered Nurse, marrying, and welcoming her daughter Mackenzie. But her life took heartbreaking turns as she faced Mackenzie’s battle with AML leukemia and Kyler’s struggle with addiction. Adrienne shares these stories with honesty, love, and deep reflection. Betsy and Adrienne discuss the impact illness has on the entire family and the emotional toll of losing both of her children and her father in such a short time.
Adrienne also served as a caregiver for her grandfather, giving listeners a raw and real view of how caregiving and grief shape a family’s life. A central theme of their conversation is emotional truth—acknowledging feelings rather than numbing them through unhealthy coping habits. Adrienne emphasizes that healing begins with honesty and compassion toward ourselves. Adrienne continues to honor Kyler and Mackenzie through joyful traditions: placing treats in their Christmas stockings, celebrating their birthdays with massages and dinners, and keeping their memories alive through stories and love. This deeply emotional episode is dedicated to Kyler and Mackenzie, whose lives continue to inspire strength and resilience.
To learn more about Adrienne’s work, speaking, and her book The Almost Miracle Years, visit her website: http://adriennebender.com/
🎙 Chatting with Betsy brings forward real conversations about loss, healing, caregiving, and courage — stories that remind us we are not alone.
https://passionateworldtalkradio.com/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
💡 At Passionate World Talk Radio, we believe real conversations matter. Stay inspired and keep listening to Chatting with Betsy at www.passionateworldtalkradio.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, this is BET's the Worthal. Your host is
chatting with Betsy. I'm Pastier Old Talk Radio Network, a
subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC, and I we're a manstrance
to educate, ENLiGHT and entertain. The views of the guest
may not represent those at a host of the station. Folks,
(00:22):
I just want to say that my guest today is
self phenomenal and my heart goes out to her and
I'm shotting with Betsy. People get emotional because I might
get emotional today, that's okay. I don't apologize for who
(00:44):
I am. I want my guests to be comfortable. I
want them to be genuine, authentic and that's what we
have here on Chatting with Betsy, authentic conversations and I
will always comfort my guest. And as you know, the
(01:06):
topic is emotional. That's the way it is. So I
want you all to know it's okay to be emoptional,
it's okay to cry. We need to validate our feelings.
And with me today is such a phenomenal person. Adrian Bender.
She is a psychiatric nurse. She has a bachelor's degree
(01:32):
in nursing. She is a grief recovery specialist she's an entrepreneur,
she's a speaker, she's a children's meant a health therapist,
and she is writer and author of the book The
Almost Miracle Years, a mother's journey of hope and resilience
(01:53):
during her children's struggle with addiction and cancer and her
navigation through grief Been lost. And Adrian was a single
mom at the age of seventeen, and I want to
hear her story. Welcome Adrian and do teacheting with Betsy. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Hi, thank you so much for the opportunity to share
my story with the world. It's a pretty it has
been a pretty wild.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Ride so far.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I can't imagine, Well, your story's going to be heard
around the world on Passion World Talk radio network. So
I find that the personal stories of someone who had
a struggle, tragedy and became victorious, wrote a book or
(02:43):
started a business and helping people, that's what people want
to hear, Adrian. They really, as you know, people are struggling.
They want to hear how did people do it? How
did you go from point A to point B and
doing what you're doing now, But start at the beginning,
because I would to ask I get so excited that
my brain goes ahead of myself or my health goes
(03:06):
out of my brain. What motivated you to write your book?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Okay, well I lost my daughter.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, I had a lot of.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Lost and I lost my daughter eighteen after a very
long struggle with cancer, and she died from complications of
a STEMP style transplant that she had. And then four
months later I lost my father and then I decided
to do become a grief coach at that point in time,
(03:36):
and then the pandemic came and then I had to
take care of my grandfather and then he passed away,
and then ultimately my son passed away in twenty twenty three.
So I mean I been living in the Greek Jeri
since twenty eighteen, and you know, I did some unhealthy
(03:56):
coping strategies at first, and then just when Kyler died, I.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Just had to.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I just was like, something good has to come out
of this experience, because like, why did I have to
go and why did my children have to suffer so much?
Something good has to come of it. And I did
initially start writing the book when my daughter first passed away,
but then all the other stuff that happened, obviously it's
got put on Bold and then last summer I was
(04:24):
on I was working a job that wasn't very busy,
and I was really focusing on meditating and you know,
trying to figure out who I am now that I'm
not a caregiver, now that I'm not a mom anymore.
And then it just kind of came to me in
a dream right to finish writing the.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Books that I had started.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So I just wanted the struggles that we all say
to be able to teach other people that even when
things are really really hard, that you can still find
joy in life. And that's what I did with my
kids during their journey. I mean, there are some pretty.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Hard times.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Did mine manage to find joy, you know, as much
as we could. So I just wanted to share that
message with everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
That excuse me, that is our lot of tremendous loss.
And usually I think when people have such tremendous loss,
they do ask themselves why did this happen? They even
(05:34):
feel guilty even though they shouldn't. And you some people
do they self medicate or they drink to none the
pain instead of getting to the pain. That this is
the thing that I've discovered in my own journey Adrian
(05:57):
is that we have to face the pain and we
have to go through that, and it's different for everyone.
And I always recommend counseling, therapy, h whatever people want
to call it. These days, I know it has helped me,
(06:20):
excuse me, tremendously because you have to get to the
to the source. And I'm very involved with caregivers, family caregivers,
and a big one of their biggest topics or concerns
(06:42):
is they second guess themselves. Did I do enough? Yeah,
I feel guilty? And who am I now? And what
do I do now? That's the things to be a
common thread.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And for ever since I was seventeen, right, so I
now yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, And that's that is very difficult. It's like what
do you I mean, that's my feeling, like a bizarre question.
But when what do you say to people when they say, oh,
are you a mom? Because I think I would say, well,
(07:29):
I was, I had two children. How do you answer that?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I say, It's always the thing because people always ask
when they meet you you have.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yes, I have two kids. Unfortunately they both have crossed over.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
But I will always say I'm still a mom, or
I'll say I'm a mom to.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Two angels babies.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yes, yes, that's what I've heard, that's what my friend says. Yes,
and you know that even though they're not here physically,
you feel them with you. I can imagine you feel
them with you.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
And I know McKenzie's my daughter's father, he doesn't have
that same belief, and I just feel like that's a shame,
because I do feel like they are living. I just
can't see them. I can feel them, I can sense them.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I'm sure they.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Send me thoughts or songs or symbols, and that really
helps UH with the grief process, to have that belief
that it's not just over for them.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yes, yes, I've gotten signs from my husband, and people
could think amu boo or cuckoo or whatever else they
want to think. I know what I saw, and I
don't take drugs, so I know I was not hallucinating,
because i'll take drugs except they take medication from my migraine,
but that doesn't make me hallucinate. And I could feel
(09:10):
Matt with me. And one time someone said to me, Betsy,
you talk about Matt like he's still with you, that
he's still alive, And I said, well, to me, he
is still with me, just in a different way. I
very much feel his presence a lot, and I do
believe he sends me guests, that guests come my way,
(09:34):
that he knows that I would be interested in, or
that he would have liked to have heard or read
their book. How did you? I mean, you went through
a lie you were single. Moms said, put yourself through college.
That is quite an achievement in and of itself. That
right there, How how was that? How did you do that?
(09:59):
Because that that takes a lot of strength and endurance.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So in hindsight, I was a little bit nuts because, like,
I don't know what I was thinking. I could have
lived at home with my mom. I had you know,
child care and all this, and for some reason I
decided to move out on my own. I had a
part time job, I did my university, and then I
mean I met Mackenzie's dad when Kyler was about two,
(10:26):
So I did a single mom for about two and
a half years, was doing my education, and then I
met someone and then we got married. So the second
half I wasn't a single mom, but the first little
bit I was. I don't know how I did it.
I think I just I had this feeling that I
didn't want to burden anyone else because I had a
(10:47):
baby young, and I just wanted to really give him
a good life, and I wanted to get my education
so that, you know, we wouldn't be struggling, and so
I just I did it for him basically.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That, Oh, well, that is quite an achievement. I mean,
and you do look back and you think, how did
I ever do that?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I mean I know I do that myself, Adrian. I
look at it now, like I barely could get myself
ready for a ten o'clock appointment, and I don't know
how I ever, you know, fed Matt, dressed him, bathroom,
you know, did all his care and got himTo a
doctor at ten o'clock. Get myself ready, you yeah, I
(11:38):
can very yeah, never mind, like I was doing meal
prep for my grandpa, I was.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Cooking for my boyfriend, I was working full time. I
was driving my son to home appointment. Now I can
barely make myself dinner.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I understand that. Tell us about your son Kyler.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, So Kyler started gobbling with drugs and alcohol when
he was quite young, he was about twelve, and then
it really escalated quickly. It was mostly marijuana and alcohol,
and then it got to the point where I knew
(12:21):
it was a problem, so I actually quit my job
and I pulled him out of school. I homeschooled him,
I got him some therapy, I got him on med
I basically kept him in a bubble for about six months,
and then he was doing really well.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
And then.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
He started his new school to get away from the
kids who was hanging out with. And literally the same
week he started.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
His new school, his sister got diagnosed.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
With cancer, So you know, he kind of got put
to the back burner when we were in the hospital
for nine months the first time, and then he spiraled
a bit, uh and when she got out and she
was in remission, then I focused on him. So then
(13:10):
I got him into go to a rehab program and
he really came out of it and was.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Doing very well. He managed to finish.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
High school, which I didn't think he would. And then
once he turned eighteen, he had he could buy alcohol legally,
and then that's kind of where things took the turn,
and he escalated again quite quickly. And then when my
husband was the country and took all her money, kyl
(13:40):
were really spiraled. I had to actually asked him to
leave the house. And then when McKenzie and then McKenzie
relapsed right after that, so, I mean he was with
he was living between you know, friends, couches, grandparents, kind
of floating. We had to move to a different city
for her treatments. So he was really not doing well
(14:01):
for at that period of time. And then when I
came back, Mackenzie's was still not well. We were still
constantly in the er or on having clinic appointments and
things were always going wrong. And then I went back
to work because I had no choice not too so,
you know, a lot of times both the kids were
(14:22):
in two different emergency rooms at the same time and
I could decide which one to go to. And then
he did another rehab program right after the pandemic. It
was a miracle that he survived to do that program.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
And then he was.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Doing really well, and then he relapsed with his girlfriend
and he had to do she had to do CPR
on him. And then that was after Mackenzie and my
dad and my grandfather.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I moved.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I just bought a new condo and I said, okay, well,
I can't leave both my kids. He can come home.
So I let him move back home and he did
the methadone program, which was kissed. It was still dicey.
He was still using and there was a lot of
you know, I had to call the police on him,
have him removed from the house. And then he switched treatment.
(15:16):
He went to the box zone and then it was
like a miracle. He was sober for like quite.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
A long time.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
And then he had moved out on his own. Well,
I mean, I was trying to encourage independence because he
was twenty five, and I always said, you're always welcome
to come home. So he would come home on the
weekends and I'd help him with his homework. He started
going to college to be an addiction counselor. He was
getting straight a's. He was doing well, and then he
(15:45):
got jumped by a gang of teenagers on the train here.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
And then.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
He didn't want to go to the hospital.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
She didn't like hospitals.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
But then he was in a lot of pain.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So then a couple of days after the incident, he
started going into the hospitals and they looked up his
history and they kind of brushed him off, like.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
They thought he was just looking for drugs.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And then so then the last time he went to
the hospital, they sent him home about noon and he
called me and said, I don't know why I'm so
much pain. They sent me home, and then I found
out the next day on Facebook that he had passed away.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
His girlfriend, who was bad news, gave him some sweet
pill that had done so in it, and then there
was also some damage from that beating.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
But they just kind.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Of the police when once they see it's drugs, they
just kind of, you know, brush it off.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
It's just drugs.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
But he did have some evidence of pulmonary edema from that,
like twelve people like stamped him.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
So he was like, yeah, oh that is oh oh, Adrian,
my heart to yours. I can't imagine finding out about
the passing of your child on Facebook, not even a
phone call on Facebook. That's the scroll in and of itself,
(17:14):
and you would think that, you know, your son got
injured by a gang, that they would have done MRI
of his head or cat scan or something.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
So when they called the book it, I said, no, he's.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Dead, Oh my goodness. I mean, I know things are
different you're in Canada than here, you know, in the States,
but that is just really tragic. And did your you,
being a psychiatic nurse, did you feel like you were
(17:55):
able to be better equipped to support your side or
did you feel like, you know, I can't this is
too close to me. I you know, you need to
see someone.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Well he did, he did see people besides me, But
I mean when he first came.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Home after that, uh, I prefer that overdose. I mean
it was the pandemic. We were in lockdown, so I
was babysitting him. I was working for.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Them, and I was, you know, he was. We were
spent all day every day together. So I mean he
I don't think he could have had a better parent
because you know, certain things that might rattle people, you know,
didn't really rattle me because of my experience.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I asked that because my son was in a group session.
He's on lots of sick spectrum and one of the
kids mom was a psychologist, and I said to her, well,
you really must be able to handle your son, you know,
(19:09):
dealing with it, because you are a psychologist. She said, no.
He unravels my nervous system in five minutes. I'm on antype,
the presants, that's my anxiety, and I said, and I mean,
I'm not jokingly, but I was like, wow, you know what,
thank you for being honest because you need, you know,
that support. No, like, what does that say for the
(19:32):
rest of us who don't have the background. But you know,
everyone's differ, anyone coaxed differently. And you know, your son,
I'm sure was affected by his sister's diagnosis. You had
to do a very tough balancing act, Adrian. Your daughter
(19:52):
is sick, she's in her house, Well, she has cancer.
Your son needs attention, and you can't split yourself in two.
Who who do you go to first? Yeah, that's tough. Yeah,
that is a tough balancing act. And I want people
(20:14):
to realize that once someone has cancer in the family,
the whole family is affected. The whole family. It takes
a toll on family. And you know how your son
dealt with it. You know, he's seeing his sister sick,
and everyone handles their emotions and situations differently. That excuse me,
(20:42):
that's got to be a tremendously difficult time for you
and your family. Saying your child sick, yeah, just is
like you would trade places with them.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, yeah, it was. Uh yeah, I was very aggressive.
So she was an inpatient for nine straight months. Like
we would get brakes here and there, but we lived there,
So I mean it was hard, right.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
How about was your daughter when she was diagnosed?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
The first time she was diagnosed, she was eight, and
then she was and then she relapsed when.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
She was she's thirteen, twenty sixteen, she would have been
thirteen yet, and then she passed away when she was fifteen.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Wow, that is And tell us about Mackenzie. What was
she like and how did you find out she had
that am l of leukemia.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
She so, her dad and I have split custody. And
she came back from her dad after a week off
and her dad said something about she's been snoring. We
took her to the dentist blah blah blah and get
a humidifier and they think she meets her tonsils out
(22:15):
and so I was, you know, pretty she wasn't snoring
the week before when she was at my house.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
So then and then her arm was really sore, like
really sore.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Like we went we went to go visit some friends
out of the city and she said she fell off.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
A bunk dad and her her arm is what she
said happened. Her arm is very sore.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
So I took her to the er, and the.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Young resident just basically said, kay, advil. And then it
was about she was saying so much advil. Her poo
was turning blue from the.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Die and the kid's advil.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
So I thought, well, this is a lot of advils,
she's take them, and she's still complaining about his arm.
So I took her back to the er. And then
when they started asking questions when she was pale, her
guns were swoolen.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
She had lost some weight, you know, she.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Has the s woolen consoles. And then I kind of
added it up A kind of knew before they like,
because the week gone and we got parenting, you don't
see them for a week next time. I fear she's
lost weight, you know. So I kind of knew in
my head once the doctor started asking those lines of questions.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
That it was bad. And then we just had to
wait because the blood work.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And then.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
When they did the blood work, you know, we got
admitted that same night.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
That is devastating, uh diagnosis, and it just takes such
a toll. I can't even imagine, Adrian, You're well, I
can't imagine, but I but I can't in a way
if if you don't just stand what I'm saying of
(24:06):
watching your child being sick that had to tear you
up inside and out, and you know, and just watching them,
you know, and watch her die that like, how do
you how did you deal with that? Because that's the
(24:29):
image you can't get out of your head.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, it's not when it was actually so what had
happened was she had been getting sicker and sicker and
tried all these different treatments and not accessing was working.
And you know, we were always in the hospital, We
were always in the emerge.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
There was always something going on.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
And then she had and her body was fighting so
hard that she could eat like a grown and was
withering away that she was like eight ounces when she passed.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
The cancer was gone, but it was a grapher who
clost disease that she had.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
So then one day back to the hospital because her
lung had collapse and her mother long to collapse the
previous week, and the doctor just said to her, you know, McKenzie,
when kids are sick as you sometimes their heart stop
and do you want us to count on your chest
and to get too donner throats and and.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
She said no.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So then I called her dad and we both agreed
that she suffered too much and if that happened, we
would let her go. And then she passed away ten
days after that, but the day but she was happy.
She was ready to go, like she people would come
to visit her and she would say, if you're gonna cry,
get out of here, like she was ready. She was,
(25:51):
you don't worry, mom, there, I'll come see you, I'll
visit you. I'll let you know it's me, like, and
she was like, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
For supporting me.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Like she suffered so much, so I mean, it was
awful to watch. But at the same point in time,
the way she was so okay with it, you know, it's.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Like dad had, Yeah, I understand, Sorry, don't go ahead,
no go ahead.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
For someone who was so like she loved life like
ten that ten days before she died, she threw a
Halloween party for my boyfriend's kids and she decorated and
she made crafts and she told them scary stories and
like she was had such a vesper life. So the
fact that she was okay to stop fighting told me
how much she was really suffering.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, that's and you bring up such an important Asian
like even you know, she was a young adult fifteen.
I believe old ages they know. I just believe that
they know when their bodies have had enough and when
(27:04):
they don't want to, you know, just keep fighting the
the disease and they want to be relieved. And I
think that is, you know, to honor their wishes, even
as young adults or as children, they know when they've
had enough. And sometimes folks, and this might sound harsh,
(27:28):
but sometimes I'm gonna get choked up. You love someone
enough to let them go. We want to hang on,
but sometimes you have to just love someone enough to
let them go. And it's okay to say I understand
and I love you enough to let you go. And
(27:52):
you know, but yeah, how.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Happy she was and how she was, but she had
our blessings, like you know, people would come and say,
she's glowing, like she looks like she's very about one
another one on earth, and.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
You know she was ready.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
So so you know, you know what, I've heard that
before people die, and not in all cases, but some
people still get very happy.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
They almost have like what they call a rally. They
they had a surge of energy where they are do
things and then they go and yeah, that was McKenzie's rally.
I guess she had this party and she wanted to
make people happy and she wanted to enjoy life as
(28:47):
much as she could under the circumstances. That's McKenzie. Sounds
like she was a very strong young woman.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You know, there was something very special, a very feisty
driven like she get our learners permit while she was
on he was trying to learn Japanese when she was
on her deathbed, like she used, she is so strong
and so driven, and uh, you know at her funeral
(29:20):
people would say like, I'm a better nurse because of you.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
I'm a better doctor because of you.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I'm a better teacher because of you, because of just
how driven she was.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Oh that's that says a lot. And you know, sometimes
we asked why did I have this tragedy? Why did
my children have to go through this? Or why didn't
my stuff or whoever it is, why did I have
to have so much loss in my life? How did
you come to terms with that? Adrian losing? And before
(29:54):
I forget you might have mentioned it. I don't remember
how old is Kyler when he died twenty five way
was twenty five Okay, how did you deal with that?
And then say, you know, what is my purpose now?
(30:17):
I mean, you wrote your book and that's going to
help so many people. You're you're sharing your story. It's
going to help many people because people like to know, like,
how did you do that?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I guess Mackenzie got some of her driven miss for
me because like Sncey passed away. I'm not going to
say it was harder, but it was. You know, I
did do some unhealthy things. I did eat my feelings,
I did drink my feelings. I did gain fifty pounds
(30:52):
like I did those things. And then it was like
then my dad died right after that, and then my
grandpa died right and then Kyler died. I was like,
I can't self destruct. I need to do something different.
I just need to do something different. I need to
do something that will make my kids proud.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
And so.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I really put it in my head that I'm not
going to go fall to those unhealthy ways, and you know,
I'm going to continue to go to the gym and
I'm going to do what I you know, plan things
to look forward to and try and find, you know,
the joy in every day and try and honor them
and do things that would make them proud. So I
guess I was just kind of like there was so
(31:31):
much death and loss. I just thought, like, I can't
crawl into a cave, like there's the only family members
I've left, or my mom and my sister, my nephew.
So it's like my whole family's gone. Like I have
I'm probably going to live another four years, would you know?
I need to enjoy it, like I just yeah, I
(31:53):
just I just got stubborn and was like, I mean,
how many work can I lose? Like I have to
move on and I have to enjoy life and just
think that my kids are proud of whatever it is
I'm doing. And that's kind of how.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
I looked at it at that point.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yes, I feel, Adrian, that the best way we can
honor our loved ones is to enjoy life and to
do something in their memory to honor them. And I
have a whole new appreciation for life, and I'm sure
(32:30):
you do too. Yeah that you know life is short.
There's no guarantee of your next breath. But I don't
mean to be morbid here, folks, but that's just the
reality and now at the age as I'm approaching God,
willing to be sixty eight in December. I appreciate life
(32:50):
so much. My husband was sixty six when he died.
My brother was sixty seven, and they died a year apart,
and I just, you know, you had this nepreation for life,
and I did. Matt died January first, twenty twenty, and then,
(33:12):
like you know, a couple months later, we shut down
because of COVID and I was grateful in a way
because I was able to stay at home. It was tough.
It was really tough for my son and you know,
to deal with the grieving, and I felt unjustified guilt
for a year, which I shouldn't have. I went for therapy.
(33:37):
But do you know what I did to self medicate.
I don't drink, I don't do drugs. I did shopping
I had, and Folks, that is a way to run away.
I mean, how you feel, because I felt like I
wanted this comfort, Adrian, I felt like I just wanted
(33:59):
to cook whom you know, So I brought stuff I
didn't needs, like pajamas and a new bathrobe for something
to make me feel good. Because when I was younger,
and I went my very young one shopping. That's the
only time I felt special was when my mom brought
me stuff and I said, let's see what are you doing?
(34:22):
This is getting out of hand and I stopped. I
realized what I was doing. But I was self medicating
through through buying. I mean I didn't go into debt,
you know, thousands of dollars into debt. I didn't do that.
But I caught myself and it and it's really difficult
(34:43):
two you know, come to that place of you know,
I'm in the situation. I have pain and I had
to deal with it. And it took me five five years,
(35:04):
four or five years to come to the terms, like,
you know what, this is my new normal how I feel.
Last year was the first time I was able to
enjoy Christmas music. And you know, holidays are different. I'm
sure they definitely there are for you. And just to say,
(35:25):
you know what, this is my new normal. Now, this
is how I'm going to feel. And now I know
it's okay because I think a lot of people have
problems aging with this. I got to fix myself. I'm broken.
I should feel this way. I should feel better by now.
But the thing is the pain of grief is always
(35:46):
with us. I always will be with us. We just
have to learn how to live with it. Do you
feel that way?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Like I campled Christmas for a few years and then
you know, last year, it's just different. It's never going
to be what it was.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
It's just always going to be different. When you just
have guy to enjoy the different.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yes, yeah, that's for sure. You know. I used to think, well,
when am I going to feel better? Or when's this
going to go away? And then I realized, you know,
it's it's not going to go away. And I happened
to interview a psychologist who wrote a really great book,
(36:34):
You don't have to change everything to be happy. I
think it's something like that, And I realized, you know what,
you could be happy and sad. You can you know
the memories of when you know, coming up to their
anniversary date when they died. Yeah, memories are going to
(36:56):
come up. You're going to feel sad, you may cry,
and that is all okay because I think Adrian and
it really annoys me to no end when people say this,
be strong, don't cry. Be strong. Now we've been strong.
You've been strong, and we're human beings, and it's okay
(37:19):
to cry. It's okay to cry when you think of
a memory, you hear a song, you smell a fragrance
or something, it's okay, and that's okay. Do you have
any suggestions of what people should do when they have
(37:44):
encountered so much loss as you have to to to survive.
I guess so.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
One of my main suggestions, and like so early days
with Mackenzie, I would have a to do list because
I was off work for a couple of months. I
had a to do list and it might seem like,
you know, you know, like have a shower, go for
a walk, find a beautiful flower, like it was simple things.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
But I would write it.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Down and list format and cross it off, and that's
kind of you know. It would be either some days
we're minutes minutes. Some days were a few good hours,
some days were one good hour. But I really made
a conscious effort to be present and try and find
something and every.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Day that I enjoy.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
So that's something I did. And then also I just
honor them. Like I honor them, I talk about them.
I don't you know, some people will take the pictures down.
I have pictures everywhere I you know, I talk about them.
I buy them Christmas stockings and then I just fill
it with goodies that they would like, and then between
Christmas and.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
The years, I eat them myself.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
And I just honor, you know, as if you're still
here or you know, their birthday, like I take off
their death anniversaries and I take off their birthdays and
back to day. I go get a massage and go
to their favorite restaurant and I just honor that. And
I'm always going to do that. So I think you need.
It's kind of like you almost have one foot in
the grief lights and one foot in a normal life,
(39:18):
and we kind of have.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
To balance the two. But I do enjoy, oh I.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I oh, Adrian, I could just plug you. I love that.
I love what you just said because I do the
same thing. I honor. Like my anniversaries. November first, we
can go out and celebrate Josha and I Jush is
my son, We go out and celebrate anniversary. We I
used to buy a cake, but now I just buy
(39:46):
like a little small thing and we sing to manhappy
birthday m hm. And we you know, honor his birth
his birthday and Father's Day like before my husband died.
Josh said, we're going to still celebrate Father's Day and
(40:07):
my father's say, it's very difficult for him, and I said,
of course, and that's that's so beautiful. And I've encouraged
people just like you. You have celebrate your anniversary, celebrate
their birthdays, honor their memories, keep talking about them. And
it's like, you know, people are afraid to mention our
(40:29):
loved one's names because they might upset us, and I like, newsflash,
we know they're not here. It's not a secret. We
know they're gone. You can't fix that. Tell us a story,
tell us what our loved one meant to you. And
you know, if you want, show your pictures on Facebook
or whatever your social media platform is and honor them.
(40:53):
I love what you're doing. I really do.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I think that's great, and I think more people need
to do it, yes, because it's people are so awkward
about it.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
It's you shouldn't be all like you know.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I've yeah, I've noticed more people doing that. Oi I
have Facebook. I've noticed more people they are doing that.
But and I don't know if they're doing that because
I'm doing it, but hey, if they're doing it because
I'm doing it. I'm glad I inspired them because that
(41:32):
is it's like, why can't you you know, like, okay,
a Mother's Day. What do you do on Mother's Day?
Because that's got to be extremely difficult and.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
This one's going to be different.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
But I had a friend who would come over every
Mother's Day with flowers because she promised Mackenzie she would,
but she moved to a different city. So I don't
know what I'll do this Mother's Day. But usually usually
my friends take me out or my mom will send
me money to get a nice meal. And usually my
other friend would come over with flowers, but that will
change because she moved to a different city.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
So I guess we'll figure it out this year.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
But I always do something someone sends to give her,
and I'll go out and have mother's face.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah that's what I mean. We go, you know, to
the cemetery. Then we go have fun because that's what
that would have wanted, and you know, to enjoy life.
And I just love what you are doing. And Adrian,
(42:37):
you have such shrink to you and such a grit
and to share your story, which isn't easy to to
say you know, it's not easy to write that how
to be? Was it cathartic and painful for you to
write your book with it both?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
It was both yeah, yeah, like yeah, while it was
painful and it was also helpful. And then it did
build me up a bit because then when I, you know,
I was like, holy, holy smokes, I did all that
and I'm still surviving.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yes, yes, I you know, this is so strange. I
said this on an interview last week. I usually don't
cover the same topic in a short period of time,
But I don't know if it's coincidence, karma, this is
what the universe needs to hear. But I've been doing
(43:37):
a lot of interviews lately about grieving, addiction, struggling, and
I think the world does need to hear people's stories
because people are struggling, and it is you know, people
uh fentanel poisoning kills sound and thousands of people a year.
(44:04):
Young people are dying, cancer pills, multitudes, various types, dealing
with illness, dealing with addiction. It's not easy. It's very difficult.
And I just want to plaud you, Adrian Bender, for
(44:25):
writing your story, sharing your story and being so I
say brave and courageous for doing so, and I applaud you.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
I look at it as my life purpose right now.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
So that's that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yes, And you know what, you never know who's listening
to you, who's going to pick up and read your
book that you will help you really don't know. Where
can people purchase your book, Adrian.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Than on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, uh, Cobo and Lulu.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
So Amazon, okay? And how can people connect with you?
Give a website.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
My website has my email address on it, so just
the Adrianbender dot com, the first and last name dot com.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
That's easy to remember.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah, and then I like, okay, just my first and
last name and they're wide open so anyone can reach
me on there too.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Well, thank you. I want to thank you so much
for coming on today, uh Adrian and sharing your your story,
and I just want to encourage you keep on doing
what you're doing, keep on telling people your story, and
(46:04):
you do have your life's purpose. And I'm sure your
children are very proud of you for honoring them by
telling your story, but telling their story, and that's and
I'm sure you're going to keep getting signs from them too,
So thank you again so much. Folks. You heard, You're welcome.
(46:30):
You heard Adrian Bender r N. And all the information
about Adrian Bender will be in the blog that Genie Waite,
there's the station manager at writes and produces the show.
The name of the book is The Almost Miracle Years,
a mother's journey of hope and resilience during her children's
(46:50):
struggle with addiction and cancer and your navigation through grief
and loss. Folks, I highly recommend reading a book and
tell someone about Adrian Bender. Share the show to help
other people that you know who lost children due to
cancer or due to overdose. And I just want to say,
(47:15):
do not judge people. Do not judge people when they
go for support. Do not judge people that they have
an addiction problem, because they can happen to anyone. Any
one of us can fall into that. It's easier than
you think. And I just want to encourage people go
(47:35):
for support here in New Jersey. In America, if you
are having a crisis, call or text nine to eighty
eight a suicide crisis Prevention line mental health line and
somebody will help you. Ask your primary care physician in
your area for mental health referrals if you need support
(48:00):
worked and I encourage everyone seek support if you need it.
There's no shame in that at all. And folks, I
always say this, you never know what light out in
store for you, and you might need support and you're
going to want people to be supportive of you. So
(48:22):
think of that when someone says I'm going for support,
encourage somebody, help them get emotional, and don't judge them
if they do have to take medication to get over
a hump in their life, because nobody is immune. And
I always encourage people subscribe to Johny with Betsy's for free.
(48:47):
I'm on Spotify, Spreaker, iHeart Amazon Music. I want to
reach as many people as possible. I want to help
as many people as possible. And I want to thank
Lillie cold Well, the CEO of pat wal Talk Radio Network,
who makes this all possible. And thank you again listeners
for listening subscribing, and you can also program if you
(49:10):
have Alexa, you can program it to Johnny with Betsy
and you can follow me on Facebook Betsy Worzel w
or z e l And as I always say at
the end of my show, in a world where you
could be anything. Please be kind and shine your life
right because we need it now more than ever before.
(49:32):
So keep shouting your light. Adrian, You're doing a great job.
And much love to you, best wishes on your book,
and best wishes to you and enjoying life and honoring
your children. And is it okay? Can I dedicate this
podcast to your children?
Speaker 3 (49:54):
Yes? Please? Tyler?
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Okay? Thank thank you to McKenzie and Kyler. I dedicate
this podcast and their memory and may their memories be
a continuous blessing to you, Atrean and your family to
jumped up. I can't help us, folks. Okay, that's differ today, folks.
(50:22):
This is Betsy Worzel, your hosts and chatting with Betsy.
I'm pastor WILK Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global
Media Network LLC. Bye bye for now.
Hello everyone, this is BET's the Worthal. Your host is
chatting with Betsy. I'm Pastier Old Talk Radio Network, a
subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC, and I we're a manstrance
to educate, ENLiGHT and entertain. The views of the guest
may not represent those at a host of the station. Folks,
(00:22):
I just want to say that my guest today is
self phenomenal and my heart goes out to her and
I'm shotting with Betsy. People get emotional because I might
get emotional today, that's okay. I don't apologize for who
(00:44):
I am. I want my guests to be comfortable. I
want them to be genuine, authentic and that's what we
have here on Chatting with Betsy, authentic conversations and I
will always comfort my guest. And as you know, the
(01:06):
topic is emotional. That's the way it is. So I
want you all to know it's okay to be emoptional,
it's okay to cry. We need to validate our feelings.
And with me today is such a phenomenal person. Adrian Bender.
She is a psychiatric nurse. She has a bachelor's degree
(01:32):
in nursing. She is a grief recovery specialist she's an entrepreneur,
she's a speaker, she's a children's meant a health therapist,
and she is writer and author of the book The
Almost Miracle Years, a mother's journey of hope and resilience
(01:53):
during her children's struggle with addiction and cancer and her
navigation through grief Been lost. And Adrian was a single
mom at the age of seventeen, and I want to
hear her story. Welcome Adrian and do teacheting with Betsy. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Hi, thank you so much for the opportunity to share
my story with the world. It's a pretty it has
been a pretty wild.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Ride so far.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I can't imagine, Well, your story's going to be heard
around the world on Passion World Talk radio network. So
I find that the personal stories of someone who had
a struggle, tragedy and became victorious, wrote a book or
(02:43):
started a business and helping people, that's what people want
to hear, Adrian. They really, as you know, people are struggling.
They want to hear how did people do it? How
did you go from point A to point B and
doing what you're doing now, But start at the beginning,
because I would to ask I get so excited that
my brain goes ahead of myself or my health goes
(03:06):
out of my brain. What motivated you to write your book?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Okay, well I lost my daughter.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Well, I had a lot of.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Lost and I lost my daughter eighteen after a very
long struggle with cancer, and she died from complications of
a STEMP style transplant that she had. And then four
months later I lost my father and then I decided
to do become a grief coach at that point in time,
(03:36):
and then the pandemic came and then I had to
take care of my grandfather and then he passed away,
and then ultimately my son passed away in twenty twenty three.
So I mean I been living in the Greek Jeri
since twenty eighteen, and you know, I did some unhealthy
(03:56):
coping strategies at first, and then just when Kyler died, I.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Just had to.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I just was like, something good has to come out
of this experience, because like, why did I have to
go and why did my children have to suffer so much?
Something good has to come of it. And I did
initially start writing the book when my daughter first passed away,
but then all the other stuff that happened, obviously it's
got put on Bold and then last summer I was
(04:24):
on I was working a job that wasn't very busy,
and I was really focusing on meditating and you know,
trying to figure out who I am now that I'm
not a caregiver, now that I'm not a mom anymore.
And then it just kind of came to me in
a dream right to finish writing the.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Books that I had started.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So I just wanted the struggles that we all say
to be able to teach other people that even when
things are really really hard, that you can still find
joy in life. And that's what I did with my
kids during their journey. I mean, there are some pretty.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Hard times.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Did mine manage to find joy, you know, as much
as we could. So I just wanted to share that
message with everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
That excuse me, that is our lot of tremendous loss.
And usually I think when people have such tremendous loss,
they do ask themselves why did this happen? They even
(05:34):
feel guilty even though they shouldn't. And you some people
do they self medicate or they drink to none the
pain instead of getting to the pain. That this is
the thing that I've discovered in my own journey Adrian
(05:57):
is that we have to face the pain and we
have to go through that, and it's different for everyone.
And I always recommend counseling, therapy, h whatever people want
to call it. These days, I know it has helped me,
(06:20):
excuse me, tremendously because you have to get to the
to the source. And I'm very involved with caregivers, family caregivers,
and a big one of their biggest topics or concerns
(06:42):
is they second guess themselves. Did I do enough? Yeah,
I feel guilty? And who am I now? And what
do I do now? That's the things to be a
common thread.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
And for ever since I was seventeen, right, so I
now yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Yeah, And that's that is very difficult. It's like what
do you I mean, that's my feeling, like a bizarre question.
But when what do you say to people when they say, oh,
are you a mom? Because I think I would say, well,
(07:29):
I was, I had two children. How do you answer that?
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I say, It's always the thing because people always ask
when they meet you you have.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yes, I have two kids. Unfortunately they both have crossed over.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
But I will always say I'm still a mom, or
I'll say I'm a mom to.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Two angels babies.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Yes, yes, that's what I've heard, that's what my friend says. Yes,
and you know that even though they're not here physically,
you feel them with you. I can imagine you feel
them with you.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
And I know McKenzie's my daughter's father, he doesn't have
that same belief, and I just feel like that's a shame,
because I do feel like they are living. I just
can't see them. I can feel them, I can sense them.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
I'm sure they.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Send me thoughts or songs or symbols, and that really
helps UH with the grief process, to have that belief
that it's not just over for them.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yes, yes, I've gotten signs from my husband, and people
could think amu boo or cuckoo or whatever else they
want to think. I know what I saw, and I
don't take drugs, so I know I was not hallucinating,
because i'll take drugs except they take medication from my migraine,
but that doesn't make me hallucinate. And I could feel
(09:10):
Matt with me. And one time someone said to me, Betsy,
you talk about Matt like he's still with you, that
he's still alive, And I said, well, to me, he
is still with me, just in a different way. I
very much feel his presence a lot, and I do
believe he sends me guests, that guests come my way,
(09:34):
that he knows that I would be interested in, or
that he would have liked to have heard or read
their book. How did you? I mean, you went through
a lie you were single. Moms said, put yourself through college.
That is quite an achievement in and of itself. That
right there, How how was that? How did you do that?
(09:59):
Because that that takes a lot of strength and endurance.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
So in hindsight, I was a little bit nuts because, like,
I don't know what I was thinking. I could have
lived at home with my mom. I had you know,
child care and all this, and for some reason I
decided to move out on my own. I had a
part time job, I did my university, and then I
mean I met Mackenzie's dad when Kyler was about two,
(10:26):
So I did a single mom for about two and
a half years, was doing my education, and then I
met someone and then we got married. So the second
half I wasn't a single mom, but the first little
bit I was. I don't know how I did it.
I think I just I had this feeling that I
didn't want to burden anyone else because I had a
(10:47):
baby young, and I just wanted to really give him
a good life, and I wanted to get my education
so that, you know, we wouldn't be struggling, and so
I just I did it for him basically.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
That, Oh, well, that is quite an achievement. I mean,
and you do look back and you think, how did
I ever do that?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I mean I know I do that myself, Adrian. I
look at it now, like I barely could get myself
ready for a ten o'clock appointment, and I don't know
how I ever, you know, fed Matt, dressed him, bathroom,
you know, did all his care and got himTo a
doctor at ten o'clock. Get myself ready, you yeah, I
(11:38):
can very yeah, never mind, like I was doing meal
prep for my grandpa, I was.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Cooking for my boyfriend, I was working full time. I
was driving my son to home appointment. Now I can
barely make myself dinner.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I understand that. Tell us about your son Kyler.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, So Kyler started gobbling with drugs and alcohol when
he was quite young, he was about twelve, and then
it really escalated quickly. It was mostly marijuana and alcohol,
and then it got to the point where I knew
(12:21):
it was a problem, so I actually quit my job
and I pulled him out of school. I homeschooled him,
I got him some therapy, I got him on med
I basically kept him in a bubble for about six months,
and then he was doing really well.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
And then.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
He started his new school to get away from the
kids who was hanging out with. And literally the same
week he started.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
His new school, his sister got diagnosed.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
With cancer, So you know, he kind of got put
to the back burner when we were in the hospital
for nine months the first time, and then he spiraled
a bit, uh and when she got out and she
was in remission, then I focused on him. So then
(13:10):
I got him into go to a rehab program and
he really came out of it and was.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Doing very well. He managed to finish.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
High school, which I didn't think he would. And then
once he turned eighteen, he had he could buy alcohol legally,
and then that's kind of where things took the turn,
and he escalated again quite quickly. And then when my
husband was the country and took all her money, kyl
(13:40):
were really spiraled. I had to actually asked him to
leave the house. And then when McKenzie and then McKenzie
relapsed right after that, so, I mean he was with
he was living between you know, friends, couches, grandparents, kind
of floating. We had to move to a different city
for her treatments. So he was really not doing well
(14:01):
for at that period of time. And then when I
came back, Mackenzie's was still not well. We were still
constantly in the er or on having clinic appointments and
things were always going wrong. And then I went back
to work because I had no choice not too so,
you know, a lot of times both the kids were
(14:22):
in two different emergency rooms at the same time and
I could decide which one to go to. And then
he did another rehab program right after the pandemic. It
was a miracle that he survived to do that program.
Speaker 3 (14:38):
And then he was.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Doing really well, and then he relapsed with his girlfriend
and he had to do she had to do CPR
on him. And then that was after Mackenzie and my
dad and my grandfather.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
I moved.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
I just bought a new condo and I said, okay, well,
I can't leave both my kids. He can come home.
So I let him move back home and he did
the methadone program, which was kissed. It was still dicey.
He was still using and there was a lot of
you know, I had to call the police on him,
have him removed from the house. And then he switched treatment.
(15:16):
He went to the box zone and then it was
like a miracle. He was sober for like quite.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
A long time.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
And then he had moved out on his own. Well,
I mean, I was trying to encourage independence because he
was twenty five, and I always said, you're always welcome
to come home. So he would come home on the
weekends and I'd help him with his homework. He started
going to college to be an addiction counselor. He was
getting straight a's. He was doing well, and then he
(15:45):
got jumped by a gang of teenagers on the train here.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
And then.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
He didn't want to go to the hospital.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
She didn't like hospitals.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
But then he was in a lot of pain.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
So then a couple of days after the incident, he
started going into the hospitals and they looked up his
history and they kind of brushed him off, like.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
They thought he was just looking for drugs.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
And then so then the last time he went to
the hospital, they sent him home about noon and he
called me and said, I don't know why I'm so
much pain. They sent me home, and then I found
out the next day on Facebook that he had passed away.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
His girlfriend, who was bad news, gave him some sweet
pill that had done so in it, and then there
was also some damage from that beating.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
But they just kind.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Of the police when once they see it's drugs, they
just kind of, you know, brush it off.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
It's just drugs.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
But he did have some evidence of pulmonary edema from that,
like twelve people like stamped him.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
So he was like, yeah, oh that is oh oh, Adrian,
my heart to yours. I can't imagine finding out about
the passing of your child on Facebook, not even a
phone call on Facebook. That's the scroll in and of itself,
(17:14):
and you would think that, you know, your son got
injured by a gang, that they would have done MRI
of his head or cat scan or something.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
So when they called the book it, I said, no, he's.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Dead, Oh my goodness. I mean, I know things are
different you're in Canada than here, you know, in the States,
but that is just really tragic. And did your you,
being a psychiatic nurse, did you feel like you were
(17:55):
able to be better equipped to support your side or
did you feel like, you know, I can't this is
too close to me. I you know, you need to
see someone.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Well he did, he did see people besides me, But
I mean when he first came.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Home after that, uh, I prefer that overdose. I mean
it was the pandemic. We were in lockdown, so I
was babysitting him. I was working for.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Them, and I was, you know, he was. We were
spent all day every day together. So I mean he
I don't think he could have had a better parent
because you know, certain things that might rattle people, you know,
didn't really rattle me because of my experience.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
I asked that because my son was in a group session.
He's on lots of sick spectrum and one of the
kids mom was a psychologist, and I said to her, well,
you really must be able to handle your son, you know,
(19:09):
dealing with it, because you are a psychologist. She said, no.
He unravels my nervous system in five minutes. I'm on antype,
the presants, that's my anxiety, and I said, and I mean,
I'm not jokingly, but I was like, wow, you know what,
thank you for being honest because you need, you know,
that support. No, like, what does that say for the
(19:32):
rest of us who don't have the background. But you know,
everyone's differ, anyone coaxed differently. And you know, your son,
I'm sure was affected by his sister's diagnosis. You had
to do a very tough balancing act, Adrian. Your daughter
(19:52):
is sick, she's in her house, Well, she has cancer.
Your son needs attention, and you can't split yourself in two.
Who who do you go to first? Yeah, that's tough. Yeah,
that is a tough balancing act. And I want people
(20:14):
to realize that once someone has cancer in the family,
the whole family is affected. The whole family. It takes
a toll on family. And you know how your son
dealt with it. You know, he's seeing his sister sick,
and everyone handles their emotions and situations differently. That excuse me,
(20:42):
that's got to be a tremendously difficult time for you
and your family. Saying your child sick, yeah, just is
like you would trade places with them.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, yeah, it was. Uh yeah, I was very aggressive.
So she was an inpatient for nine straight months. Like
we would get brakes here and there, but we lived there,
So I mean it was hard, right.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
How about was your daughter when she was diagnosed?
Speaker 2 (21:20):
The first time she was diagnosed, she was eight, and
then she was and then she relapsed when.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
She was she's thirteen, twenty sixteen, she would have been
thirteen yet, and then she passed away when she was fifteen.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Wow, that is And tell us about Mackenzie. What was
she like and how did you find out she had
that am l of leukemia.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
She so, her dad and I have split custody. And
she came back from her dad after a week off
and her dad said something about she's been snoring. We
took her to the dentist blah blah blah and get
a humidifier and they think she meets her tonsils out
(22:15):
and so I was, you know, pretty she wasn't snoring
the week before when she was at my house.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
So then and then her arm was really sore, like
really sore.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Like we went we went to go visit some friends
out of the city and she said she fell off.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
A bunk dad and her her arm is what she
said happened. Her arm is very sore.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
So I took her to the er, and the.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Young resident just basically said, kay, advil. And then it
was about she was saying so much advil. Her poo
was turning blue from the.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Die and the kid's advil.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
So I thought, well, this is a lot of advils,
she's take them, and she's still complaining about his arm.
So I took her back to the er. And then
when they started asking questions when she was pale, her
guns were swoolen.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
She had lost some weight, you know, she.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Has the s woolen consoles. And then I kind of
added it up A kind of knew before they like,
because the week gone and we got parenting, you don't
see them for a week next time. I fear she's
lost weight, you know. So I kind of knew in
my head once the doctor started asking those lines of questions.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
That it was bad. And then we just had to
wait because the blood work.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
And then.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
When they did the blood work, you know, we got
admitted that same night.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
That is devastating, uh diagnosis, and it just takes such
a toll. I can't even imagine, Adrian, You're well, I
can't imagine, but I but I can't in a way
if if you don't just stand what I'm saying of
(24:06):
watching your child being sick that had to tear you
up inside and out, and you know, and just watching them,
you know, and watch her die that like, how do
you how did you deal with that? Because that's the
(24:29):
image you can't get out of your head.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
Yeah, it's not when it was actually so what had
happened was she had been getting sicker and sicker and
tried all these different treatments and not accessing was working.
And you know, we were always in the hospital, We
were always in the emerge.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
There was always something going on.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
And then she had and her body was fighting so
hard that she could eat like a grown and was
withering away that she was like eight ounces when she passed.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
The cancer was gone, but it was a grapher who
clost disease that she had.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
So then one day back to the hospital because her
lung had collapse and her mother long to collapse the
previous week, and the doctor just said to her, you know, McKenzie,
when kids are sick as you sometimes their heart stop
and do you want us to count on your chest
and to get too donner throats and and.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
She said no.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So then I called her dad and we both agreed
that she suffered too much and if that happened, we
would let her go. And then she passed away ten
days after that, but the day but she was happy.
She was ready to go, like she people would come
to visit her and she would say, if you're gonna cry,
get out of here, like she was ready. She was,
(25:51):
you don't worry, mom, there, I'll come see you, I'll
visit you. I'll let you know it's me, like, and
she was like, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
For supporting me.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Like she suffered so much, so I mean, it was
awful to watch. But at the same point in time,
the way she was so okay with it, you know, it's.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
Like dad had, Yeah, I understand, Sorry, don't go ahead,
no go ahead.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
For someone who was so like she loved life like
ten that ten days before she died, she threw a
Halloween party for my boyfriend's kids and she decorated and
she made crafts and she told them scary stories and
like she was had such a vesper life. So the
fact that she was okay to stop fighting told me
how much she was really suffering.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Yeah, that's and you bring up such an important Asian
like even you know, she was a young adult fifteen.
I believe old ages they know. I just believe that
they know when their bodies have had enough and when
(27:04):
they don't want to, you know, just keep fighting the
the disease and they want to be relieved. And I
think that is, you know, to honor their wishes, even
as young adults or as children, they know when they've
had enough. And sometimes folks, and this might sound harsh,
(27:28):
but sometimes I'm gonna get choked up. You love someone
enough to let them go. We want to hang on,
but sometimes you have to just love someone enough to
let them go. And it's okay to say I understand
and I love you enough to let you go. And
(27:52):
you know, but yeah, how.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Happy she was and how she was, but she had
our blessings, like you know, people would come and say,
she's glowing, like she looks like she's very about one
another one on earth, and.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
You know she was ready.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
So so you know, you know what, I've heard that
before people die, and not in all cases, but some
people still get very happy.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
They almost have like what they call a rally. They
they had a surge of energy where they are do
things and then they go and yeah, that was McKenzie's rally.
I guess she had this party and she wanted to
make people happy and she wanted to enjoy life as
(28:47):
much as she could under the circumstances. That's McKenzie. Sounds
like she was a very strong young woman.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
You know, there was something very special, a very feisty
driven like she get our learners permit while she was
on he was trying to learn Japanese when she was
on her deathbed, like she used, she is so strong
and so driven, and uh, you know at her funeral
(29:20):
people would say like, I'm a better nurse because of you.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
I'm a better doctor because of you.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
I'm a better teacher because of you, because of just
how driven she was.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Oh that's that says a lot. And you know, sometimes
we asked why did I have this tragedy? Why did
my children have to go through this? Or why didn't
my stuff or whoever it is, why did I have
to have so much loss in my life? How did
you come to terms with that? Adrian losing? And before
(29:54):
I forget you might have mentioned it. I don't remember
how old is Kyler when he died twenty five way
was twenty five Okay, how did you deal with that?
And then say, you know, what is my purpose now?
(30:17):
I mean, you wrote your book and that's going to
help so many people. You're you're sharing your story. It's
going to help many people because people like to know, like,
how did you do that?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
I guess Mackenzie got some of her driven miss for
me because like Sncey passed away. I'm not going to
say it was harder, but it was. You know, I
did do some unhealthy things. I did eat my feelings,
I did drink my feelings. I did gain fifty pounds
(30:52):
like I did those things. And then it was like
then my dad died right after that, and then my
grandpa died right and then Kyler died. I was like,
I can't self destruct. I need to do something different.
I just need to do something different. I need to
do something that will make my kids proud.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
And so.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I really put it in my head that I'm not
going to go fall to those unhealthy ways, and you know,
I'm going to continue to go to the gym and
I'm going to do what I you know, plan things
to look forward to and try and find, you know,
the joy in every day and try and honor them
and do things that would make them proud. So I
guess I was just kind of like there was so
(31:31):
much death and loss. I just thought, like, I can't
crawl into a cave, like there's the only family members
I've left, or my mom and my sister, my nephew.
So it's like my whole family's gone. Like I have
I'm probably going to live another four years, would you know?
I need to enjoy it, like I just yeah, I
(31:53):
just I just got stubborn and was like, I mean,
how many work can I lose? Like I have to
move on and I have to enjoy life and just
think that my kids are proud of whatever it is
I'm doing. And that's kind of how.
Speaker 3 (32:07):
I looked at it at that point.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yes, I feel, Adrian, that the best way we can
honor our loved ones is to enjoy life and to
do something in their memory to honor them. And I
have a whole new appreciation for life, and I'm sure
(32:30):
you do too. Yeah that you know life is short.
There's no guarantee of your next breath. But I don't
mean to be morbid here, folks, but that's just the
reality and now at the age as I'm approaching God,
willing to be sixty eight in December. I appreciate life
(32:50):
so much. My husband was sixty six when he died.
My brother was sixty seven, and they died a year apart,
and I just, you know, you had this nepreation for life,
and I did. Matt died January first, twenty twenty, and then,
(33:12):
like you know, a couple months later, we shut down
because of COVID and I was grateful in a way
because I was able to stay at home. It was tough.
It was really tough for my son and you know,
to deal with the grieving, and I felt unjustified guilt
for a year, which I shouldn't have. I went for therapy.
(33:37):
But do you know what I did to self medicate.
I don't drink, I don't do drugs. I did shopping
I had, and Folks, that is a way to run away.
I mean, how you feel, because I felt like I
wanted this comfort, Adrian, I felt like I just wanted
(33:59):
to cook whom you know, So I brought stuff I
didn't needs, like pajamas and a new bathrobe for something
to make me feel good. Because when I was younger,
and I went my very young one shopping. That's the
only time I felt special was when my mom brought
me stuff and I said, let's see what are you doing?
(34:22):
This is getting out of hand and I stopped. I
realized what I was doing. But I was self medicating
through through buying. I mean I didn't go into debt,
you know, thousands of dollars into debt. I didn't do that.
But I caught myself and it and it's really difficult
(34:43):
two you know, come to that place of you know,
I'm in the situation. I have pain and I had
to deal with it. And it took me five five years,
(35:04):
four or five years to come to the terms, like,
you know what, this is my new normal how I feel.
Last year was the first time I was able to
enjoy Christmas music. And you know, holidays are different. I'm
sure they definitely there are for you. And just to say,
(35:25):
you know what, this is my new normal. Now, this
is how I'm going to feel. And now I know
it's okay because I think a lot of people have
problems aging with this. I got to fix myself. I'm broken.
I should feel this way. I should feel better by now.
But the thing is the pain of grief is always
(35:46):
with us. I always will be with us. We just
have to learn how to live with it. Do you
feel that way?
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Like I campled Christmas for a few years and then
you know, last year, it's just different. It's never going
to be what it was.
Speaker 3 (36:04):
It's just always going to be different. When you just
have guy to enjoy the different.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Yes, yeah, that's for sure. You know. I used to think, well,
when am I going to feel better? Or when's this
going to go away? And then I realized, you know,
it's it's not going to go away. And I happened
to interview a psychologist who wrote a really great book,
(36:34):
You don't have to change everything to be happy. I
think it's something like that, And I realized, you know what,
you could be happy and sad. You can you know
the memories of when you know, coming up to their
anniversary date when they died. Yeah, memories are going to
(36:56):
come up. You're going to feel sad, you may cry,
and that is all okay because I think Adrian and
it really annoys me to no end when people say this,
be strong, don't cry. Be strong. Now we've been strong.
You've been strong, and we're human beings, and it's okay
(37:19):
to cry. It's okay to cry when you think of
a memory, you hear a song, you smell a fragrance
or something, it's okay, and that's okay. Do you have
any suggestions of what people should do when they have
(37:44):
encountered so much loss as you have to to to survive.
I guess so.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
One of my main suggestions, and like so early days
with Mackenzie, I would have a to do list because
I was off work for a couple of months. I
had a to do list and it might seem like,
you know, you know, like have a shower, go for
a walk, find a beautiful flower, like it was simple things.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
But I would write it.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Down and list format and cross it off, and that's
kind of you know. It would be either some days
we're minutes minutes. Some days were a few good hours,
some days were one good hour. But I really made
a conscious effort to be present and try and find
something and every.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Day that I enjoy.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
So that's something I did. And then also I just
honor them. Like I honor them, I talk about them.
I don't you know, some people will take the pictures down.
I have pictures everywhere I you know, I talk about them.
I buy them Christmas stockings and then I just fill
it with goodies that they would like, and then between
Christmas and.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
The years, I eat them myself.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
And I just honor, you know, as if you're still
here or you know, their birthday, like I take off
their death anniversaries and I take off their birthdays and
back to day. I go get a massage and go
to their favorite restaurant and I just honor that. And
I'm always going to do that. So I think you need.
It's kind of like you almost have one foot in
the grief lights and one foot in a normal life,
(39:18):
and we kind of have.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
To balance the two. But I do enjoy, oh I.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I oh, Adrian, I could just plug you. I love that.
I love what you just said because I do the
same thing. I honor. Like my anniversaries. November first, we
can go out and celebrate Josha and I Jush is
my son, We go out and celebrate anniversary. We I
used to buy a cake, but now I just buy
(39:46):
like a little small thing and we sing to manhappy
birthday m hm. And we you know, honor his birth
his birthday and Father's Day like before my husband died.
Josh said, we're going to still celebrate Father's Day and
(40:07):
my father's say, it's very difficult for him, and I said,
of course, and that's that's so beautiful. And I've encouraged
people just like you. You have celebrate your anniversary, celebrate
their birthdays, honor their memories, keep talking about them. And
it's like, you know, people are afraid to mention our
(40:29):
loved one's names because they might upset us, and I like, newsflash,
we know they're not here. It's not a secret. We
know they're gone. You can't fix that. Tell us a story,
tell us what our loved one meant to you. And
you know, if you want, show your pictures on Facebook
or whatever your social media platform is and honor them.
(40:53):
I love what you're doing. I really do.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
I think that's great, and I think more people need
to do it, yes, because it's people are so awkward
about it.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
It's you shouldn't be all like you know.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
I've yeah, I've noticed more people doing that. Oi I
have Facebook. I've noticed more people they are doing that.
But and I don't know if they're doing that because
I'm doing it, but hey, if they're doing it because
I'm doing it. I'm glad I inspired them because that
(41:32):
is it's like, why can't you you know, like, okay,
a Mother's Day. What do you do on Mother's Day?
Because that's got to be extremely difficult and.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Well, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
This one's going to be different.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
But I had a friend who would come over every
Mother's Day with flowers because she promised Mackenzie she would,
but she moved to a different city. So I don't
know what I'll do this Mother's Day. But usually usually
my friends take me out or my mom will send
me money to get a nice meal. And usually my
other friend would come over with flowers, but that will
change because she moved to a different city.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
So I guess we'll figure it out this year.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
But I always do something someone sends to give her,
and I'll go out and have mother's face.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Yeah that's what I mean. We go, you know, to
the cemetery. Then we go have fun because that's what
that would have wanted, and you know, to enjoy life.
And I just love what you are doing. And Adrian,
(42:37):
you have such shrink to you and such a grit
and to share your story, which isn't easy to to
say you know, it's not easy to write that how
to be? Was it cathartic and painful for you to
write your book with it both?
Speaker 2 (42:55):
It was both yeah, yeah, like yeah, while it was
painful and it was also helpful. And then it did
build me up a bit because then when I, you know,
I was like, holy, holy smokes, I did all that
and I'm still surviving.
Speaker 1 (43:16):
Yes, yes, I you know, this is so strange. I
said this on an interview last week. I usually don't
cover the same topic in a short period of time,
But I don't know if it's coincidence, karma, this is
what the universe needs to hear. But I've been doing
(43:37):
a lot of interviews lately about grieving, addiction, struggling, and
I think the world does need to hear people's stories
because people are struggling, and it is you know, people
uh fentanel poisoning kills sound and thousands of people a year.
(44:04):
Young people are dying, cancer pills, multitudes, various types, dealing
with illness, dealing with addiction. It's not easy. It's very difficult.
And I just want to plaud you, Adrian Bender, for
(44:25):
writing your story, sharing your story and being so I
say brave and courageous for doing so, and I applaud you.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
I look at it as my life purpose right now.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
So that's that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Yes, And you know what, you never know who's listening
to you, who's going to pick up and read your
book that you will help you really don't know. Where
can people purchase your book, Adrian.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
Than on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, uh, Cobo and Lulu.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
So Amazon, okay? And how can people connect with you?
Give a website.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
My website has my email address on it, so just
the Adrianbender dot com, the first and last name dot com.
Speaker 1 (45:30):
That's easy to remember.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah, and then I like, okay, just my first and
last name and they're wide open so anyone can reach
me on there too.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Well, thank you. I want to thank you so much
for coming on today, uh Adrian and sharing your your story,
and I just want to encourage you keep on doing
what you're doing, keep on telling people your story, and
(46:04):
you do have your life's purpose. And I'm sure your
children are very proud of you for honoring them by
telling your story, but telling their story, and that's and
I'm sure you're going to keep getting signs from them too,
So thank you again so much. Folks. You heard, You're welcome.
(46:30):
You heard Adrian Bender r N. And all the information
about Adrian Bender will be in the blog that Genie Waite,
there's the station manager at writes and produces the show.
The name of the book is The Almost Miracle Years,
a mother's journey of hope and resilience during her children's
(46:50):
struggle with addiction and cancer and your navigation through grief
and loss. Folks, I highly recommend reading a book and
tell someone about Adrian Bender. Share the show to help
other people that you know who lost children due to
cancer or due to overdose. And I just want to say,
(47:15):
do not judge people. Do not judge people when they
go for support. Do not judge people that they have
an addiction problem, because they can happen to anyone. Any
one of us can fall into that. It's easier than
you think. And I just want to encourage people go
(47:35):
for support here in New Jersey. In America, if you
are having a crisis, call or text nine to eighty
eight a suicide crisis Prevention line mental health line and
somebody will help you. Ask your primary care physician in
your area for mental health referrals if you need support
(48:00):
worked and I encourage everyone seek support if you need it.
There's no shame in that at all. And folks, I
always say this, you never know what light out in
store for you, and you might need support and you're
going to want people to be supportive of you. So
(48:22):
think of that when someone says I'm going for support,
encourage somebody, help them get emotional, and don't judge them
if they do have to take medication to get over
a hump in their life, because nobody is immune. And
I always encourage people subscribe to Johny with Betsy's for free.
(48:47):
I'm on Spotify, Spreaker, iHeart Amazon Music. I want to
reach as many people as possible. I want to help
as many people as possible. And I want to thank
Lillie cold Well, the CEO of pat wal Talk Radio Network,
who makes this all possible. And thank you again listeners
for listening subscribing, and you can also program if you
(49:10):
have Alexa, you can program it to Johnny with Betsy
and you can follow me on Facebook Betsy Worzel w
or z e l And as I always say at
the end of my show, in a world where you
could be anything. Please be kind and shine your life
right because we need it now more than ever before.
(49:32):
So keep shouting your light. Adrian, You're doing a great job.
And much love to you, best wishes on your book,
and best wishes to you and enjoying life and honoring
your children. And is it okay? Can I dedicate this
podcast to your children?
Speaker 3 (49:54):
Yes? Please? Tyler?
Speaker 1 (49:57):
Okay? Thank thank you to McKenzie and Kyler. I dedicate
this podcast and their memory and may their memories be
a continuous blessing to you, Atrean and your family to
jumped up. I can't help us, folks. Okay, that's differ today, folks.
(50:22):
This is Betsy Worzel, your hosts and chatting with Betsy.
I'm pastor WILK Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global
Media Network LLC. Bye bye for now.
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