May 26, 2025 • 50 mins
May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and Betsy Wurtzel welcomes a special guest, Tammy Smith, MSW, LCSW, to address an issue affecting people of all ages—mental health stigmas.Tammy Smith is a licensed clinical social worker and psychotherapist in Teaneck, New Jersey. She’s also the owner of T.M. Smith Counseling, offering both in-person and virtual services for NJ residents. In this interview, she spoke with Betsy about how deeply rooted stigmas can prevent people from getting help—especially older adults who were raised not to “air their dirty laundry.”Betsy shared her own experiences, including her mother’s resistance for support after the loss of her son, and her own journey to counseling in 1974—a time when seeking help was often frowned upon.The conversation also touched on younger generations, such as college students, who are increasingly open about mental health and more likely to access services. crisis, call 988.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone. This is Betsy Worzel. You're a host of
Chatting with Betsy Mantasha, Rolltalk Radio Network, which is as
asiderary of Global Media Network LLC our mantrance to educate,
enlightened and entertain folks. This is the month of May,
as you all know, and May it's a mental health
(00:22):
awareness months and I have a special guest today. But
before I introduce my guest, I want to encourage everyone.
If you are struggling with mental health care issues, please
consult your primary care doctor in your area for mental
(00:42):
health referrals. It is okay to seek support. I do,
and I am not ashamed then I do see someone
and I highly recommend counseling just to help whatever struggle
you're facing right now. And if you are in the US,
please call nine to eighty eight if you are in crisis,
(01:05):
and as always, referred to your primary care doctor about
any mental health or medical concerns. Well with me today,
it's so timely. With me today is Tammy Smith, who
is a licensed clinical social worker in Teeneck, New Jersey.
And I'm so happy that I have someone from New
Jersey on the show. Jammy is an advanced candidate at
(01:28):
the five year postgraduate training program in Psychoanalysis at New
Jersey Institute for Psychoanalysis. She's trained in rational emotive behavioral
therapy through the Albert Ellis Institute in New York City,
(01:49):
sensorymotor therapy at Pat Ogden's Centsory Motor Psychotherapy Institute, Body
focused and repetitive behavior through the TLC Foundation, and complicated
can read my handwriting Prolonged.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Grief through Columbia University. Wow.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, I would say that Tammy Smith is an expert
in her field. And I and chosen as Tammy Smith
Counseling located in New Jersey said, if you are in
New Jersey and you were hearing this, the link to
Tammy Smith's business.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Will be in the blog. And I want to welcome
Tammy Smith to Johnny with Betsy. Welcome Tammy.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Thank you so much, it's great to be here today.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, thank you for coming on. Tammy. I have to
say this.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I'm sixty seven and back in the seventies, nineteen seventy
four when I first went to a social worker for
depression not talked about back then. It was actually I
was shamed for going for help. And I'm so glad
(03:10):
that the tide is turning, and I think it's turned
since COVID when mental health be king at the forefront.
But I know there's still stigmas and that's what we're
going to address today.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Could you tell us about.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
In your opinion as a professional, what stigmas are you
still seeing with mental health care issues.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah, I'm so glad that you bring that up. We
have made so many strides in mental health. It's amazing.
I live here, like you said, in New Jersey, and
we now have stigma free, which is a movement that
was started actually Mary anne Uzzi helped spearhead it in
Paramus was the first town that became stigma free, and
(04:01):
then every other town kind of hopped on board. And
we have signs that are on streets, we have hospitals,
we have schools that have designated themselves as stigma free buildings,
and institutions which are trying to promote this idea that
it's okay to struggle with mental health, it's okay to
(04:23):
talk about it, and more importantly, to point people to
the appropriate resources so they can get the much help
that they need. What we're still seeing though, myself, particularly
as a therapist is workplace. It's still a little hard
for people to say to their boss, you know, their supervisors,
(04:48):
I'm having a rough day. You know, I need a
quote unquote mental health guy. A lot of organizations promote it,
they put out newsletters, they kind of encourage it, but
when it comes right down to it, I have people
that come to see me that say they still don't
often feel comfortable coming out directly and say it, so
(05:09):
they'll they'll resort to you know, I have a headache,
but my kid is sick. The other excuses that have
become more acceptable to views at work. So I'd really
like to see being able to comfortably disclose at work
is an area I think where we're still a little
bit behind us. That's our that's our hope. Where stigma
(05:33):
is getting a lot better is with the younger people,
with the younger kids.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
The idea of the buddy bench, I don't know if
you've heard about that. They have a buddy bench hope, which, Yeah,
it's a bench that are in schools now where it
was designed as a place that a kid could go
who felt lonely. And the ideas you see a kid
on the bench and you you go over and you know,
kind of a place where have kids feel less alone.
(06:02):
And so this idea that kids are becoming more sensitive
to each other, I think is a huge nice thing
to say. I have a son who has become very
sensitive and attuned to the kids, and you know, they
start to notice. This one struggles with this, and this
(06:23):
one struggles with that. It used to be, like you said,
when we were kids and being pulled out of a
class to have to get extra help was looked at
a lot differently.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, yes, that's the sure.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh kay, I mean I just I can hug you
right now for just mentioning those two.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Topics.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Because the workplace, I've done many interviews with people about
how really mental health needs to be addressed in the workplace,
how CEOs management set the example, set the role model,
and especially I feel like with grieving. You know, when
(07:10):
someone comes back to work and they lost their staff
or their parents or child, whoever they lost, and they're
not going to be jumping right back in like they
were before. It might take a period of adjustment, and
you know, how does the workplace address that without judging
(07:30):
that person? And I had to share a story with
you when I was caregiving for my husband and I
was extremely stressed out working forty hours a week, you know,
running the home caregiving and then to two people, my
son who has gone to disability and met my husband
had early on said Alzheimer's, and I didn't realize I
(07:54):
was snapped at the children like I was just unaverge.
You know, of a breakdown, I think because I thought
I had to be the strong person and I got
my hours cut.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Down, wasn't I sort?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I wasn't happy about that, but I'm glad and I
went for counseling and people notice the change in me.
And I mean, I highly recommend counseling. And you know,
sometimes we don't realize our behavior until someone you know,
points it out to us. And then a time, I
(08:31):
tell you what just drives me bunkers for lack of
better word, as I can't stand it.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
When people tell others be strong. I just want to.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I don't advocate violence, folks, but that sometimes I just
want to just slip upside the head when they say
be strong or snap out of it because we don't
have to be strong. And when people think, especially people
my age and older and especially men, nothing against men.
(09:07):
I love you guys, but you know, men my age
and in my growing up, you know, we were taught
crying is a weakness, showing your emotions as a weakness.
You're weak if you go for help, even as a female,
and it's not and it takes years to undo that.
(09:30):
And I'm so glad that children are being more sensitive
and aware, you know, other feelings and helping each other,
and that there's resources now, which is one reason why
I do my show is.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
To provide resources, you know, for people.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
That I wish I had, or that I wish I
knew about when I was caregiving or growing up.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Excuse me, and I.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Think it's so important. And I see this a lot
cammy and caregiving groups where people think, oh, I have
to be strong, I can't cry, I can't do do that,
and they don't realize it's just harming themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Can you address that a little bit? Sure?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Sure? And I just for a second, if it's okay,
I want to just piggyback a little bit off of
what you've said about grief, because another area that people
struggle with grief in that's not as often talked about
is their pets. In your intro, when you said that
I have some training in grief counseling. A lot of
(10:49):
people have a very hard time when they lose a pet,
a dog, a cat, a parrot, one of these pets
that they have grown very close to. And that's another
time where people feel hesitant to tell others, I'm really
struggling because my cat died, my dog died. And oftentimes
(11:10):
that loss is even harder for a lot of folks
than the death of people, because we're talking about mental health,
we're talking about stigma. People feel more comfortable hugging their
animals sometimes than people. So I just wanted to throw
that out there as part of the grief training world.
That is, people are mentioning that they you too, worried
(11:34):
about their pets, you know, And a lot of folks
who are parents can sometimes also have some thoughts about
when someone says they call them they call their pets
their children, and like, oh, those aren't your kids. You
don't know, you don't have kids. That's something else to
become more aware of is we can say a lot
of things from our own experience. We don't know often
(11:58):
the real reasons why people don't have children, why they
do consider their pets as children, whether they were suffering
with issues pertaining to fertility or finance. It's just a
reminder that, you know, we can be so much more
supportive of each other if we come to others from
a place of more like curiosity and compassion rather than
(12:22):
that judgment. So I just ain't going to eat about see.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I love you, Tammy, Thank you. That is really so important.
I mean I never had a pet except for I
think a couple of days, and we had to get
rid of the dogs and mother was.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Allergic to it.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So I don't understand that loss, just like I don't
understand the loss.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Of a child, and I hope I never do.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
But just to be compassionate and just don't say to
people I know how you feel, because you do not
know how they feel, especially if you didn't had a
type of loss, and even if you did, everyone's different.
But just to say I'm here for you and hold
space for them and just let them cry, let them
(13:11):
talk to you, and just give them a hug, just
say I'm here for you. And I wish more people
would realize that, Pammy.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
And you know, as we're talking about this, it's not
that hard, but I guess maybe it is right. Some
of the things that.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Just seem like they'd be common sense, but you know,
at the space sometimes about common sense, but really not
to be judgmental seems to be a real challenge for
a lot of people. But if someone is opening up
to you or just talking to you about how they feel,
they don't want Most of the time, they don't want advice,
(13:50):
They don't want you to try to talk them out
of anything. They just really want to be heard. The
people want to be seen.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
And yes, I think if we can let us carve
out a little bit more room for that, we'd already
be accomplishing so much more.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I agree. I used to say, you can't fix our.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Grief, and we're.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Not asking to be sexed, and other people think, oh no,
don't cry, or if they want to fix you, they
can't be fixed. You know the person's gone, and you
know it's the acceptance. And I'll tell you Tammy and
my husband died in twenty twenty, and it took me
(14:41):
five years to be able to enjoy holidays again because
Matt was dying during the holiday time between Thanksgiving and
New Year's He died on New Year's Day twenty twenty
and it took me a long time to enjoy holiday
music and how and I used to think, and that's
(15:03):
why I saw grief therapy, what is wrong with me?
Why am I still feeling like this? I shouldn't feel
like this? And I've kind to find out that it's
okay to feel the way that I do, and I'm
going to feel the way that I do, and just
to concept that and to acknowledge it.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It helps me on to let me go forward. I
try to share that.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I'm so glad you did. There is no wrong way
to go through the grief process. You know, we have
it in our heads, like you said that there's I
should be over this by now, what's wrong with me?
Grief comes, and part of it is just accepting when
it does come. Like waves on the ocean, you're gonna
(15:53):
come and they're gonna go. And some waves are really
big and when they hit they feel like, you know,
being held under And some waves, you know by the beach,
they just come. They barely tickle your feet, they just
come and they go. And so we basically learn to
surf through life. I know it can sound a little simplistic,
but sometimes the simple concrete images are a way to
(16:16):
really understand more complicated thoughts and ideas. But if we
just imagine feelings and grief is a certain kind of
feeling that it comes and it goes, and that way,
when it does come, we're a little bit more prepared
for it. You know, the first time you take a
kid right to the ocean and you introduce a kid
(16:37):
to it's like, wow, what is this thing. It's it's big,
it's scary, it's water, it's gonna Some kids are excited,
some kids are afraid. But once we get used to something,
we know a little bit more what to expect, and
I think sometimes that does help make it a little
bit easier. That's where education and awareness come in. And
(16:58):
along those lines, I like to sometimes think about mental
health like preventative health. You know, it's if you go
to a dentist, then you keep your appointment, you know,
for your cleanings, you get the thing every six months
you're supposed to go. The dentist gets to check your teeth,
and not all the time, but a lot of the times,
(17:19):
especially if you have a good relationship with your dentists.
And dental care and insurance is a whole other topic
for another podcast. Neccess to medical care. But if we're
gonna use the idea of the dentist, you know, when
they look in your mouth, they can sometimes see the
problem areas and they keep an eye on it and
(17:42):
sometimes preventative care, that's the way you can try to
prevent the root canal. So I like to look at
mental health as also. It's popular to talk about wellness now.
If we're doing things on a regular basis to take
care of ourselves, which goes along with enough rest and
proper diet, enough exercise, it's kind of like therese wellness checkups.
(18:06):
A lot of the times we can prevent something bigger
from happening. And having a therapist is somebody that you
can see that gets to know you the same way
you know a dentist or a doctor gets to know
certain parts of the mouth or the body that that's hurting.
They can help you start to see patterns, start to
see that those problem areas. Let's keep an eye on that.
(18:30):
You know, come back next week and we'll make sure
that we're taking care of things as they go. And
I like when I talk to people, they really kind
of resonate with the whole idea of of wellness things
and check ups, so another way to kind of decrease
(18:51):
the stigma.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yes, yes, And you know, back in my youth, it
seemed like yesterday people, you know, you didn't talk about
mental health, you didn't talk about your feelings.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I was kind of like suck it up with the
attitude at that time. And people, I've been a mental
health advocate tammy for well since I was a teenager,
so you know, like over fifty years. People think, oh,
someone is weak because they go for help, and quite opposite,
(19:31):
it's a strong person in my opinion, that goes for help,
especially when they are getting guest with and shamed for going.
It takes a strong person to still go for help
when they're being attacked in their family environment like I was.
(19:51):
And I'm not ashamed to say that. I'm not ashamed
to talk about my past, and I talk about it
because maybe it will help inspire someone else to go
for help, to seek support. I think as parents and
you can touch on this tammy. If you see your
(20:12):
child depressed, please don't think it's just a phase and
it's gonna go away. And your child comes to you
and says I'm depressed, I'm sad I need support. Please
take them. I beg you to take them, because when
your child comes to you for help and you ignore it,
(20:36):
and you ignore them, they're gonna go seek help from
other places that you may not want them to seek
help from. Oh what I like your advice on that
Tammy was like for parents? What should they look for?
I guess depends on the age of the child. Of course,
(20:59):
when they're eighteen, you know they're an adult, your own
you know, that's when you should get then the therapy
before they're eighteen, excuse me, because the therapist doesn't have
to tell the parent what's going on when their eighteen.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah, there's so many ways to approach therapy with kids now,
and it seems like every day there's even more more
ideas and suggestions. So I can definitely touch on a
few of those areas. But first of all, you know,
I've had my son in therapist since he was seven,
more along the lines of preventative care, and he really
(21:43):
didn't need the help when I got him into therapy,
but I knew that as he got older and so
become a teenager, he would benefit from having somebody to
talk to. And by that point, the relationship would already
be in place, so he is with the same person
he started with when he was younger. And I've always
(22:04):
liked that idea because who's not going to be able
to benefit from having a trusting adult, you know, being
an adolescent is a really difficult time. But I understand
most parents aren't going to approach mental health quite like that.
I was a therapist in my own therapy that wanted
my own child to be in therapy. But for those
(22:26):
who are just wondering, does my kid need to see
a therapist? Would my teenager benefit from it? So the question,
of course is does the child need it? It depends
some kids really want therapy, believe it or not. It
has become somewhat of a status symbol a little bit
in the college group especially. I've had quite a few
(22:51):
college students that have logged on for virtual sessions and
they're in a dorm room, and they actually all have
their therapists, and they kind of sign out their dorm
room like tonight, I have my therapy, tomorrow, you have
your therapy. And I am tickled in such a pleasant
way that this is so open with these college kids
that you know they have to kind of fight for
(23:13):
the privacy to have their telehealth therapy sessions. So with
the college group, there's a lot of information on college campuses.
So a lot of times that's the first entry for
a college student is they're struggling on campus, and you know,
the college campuses have mental health centers, so that's the
(23:34):
easy way for a college student to get pretty quick
kind of help. And then they can find additional resources
because usually the college counseling only offers a few sessions
and then you know, they'll either help or the families
would try to find a therapist that can continue, especially
(23:55):
if somebody is on campus and then going home during
breaks or over the summer. So schools now have a
lot more therapists in the building than they ever have before.
And it used to just be that you had, you know,
one school, one school psychologist, one school social worker. But
(24:16):
here in New Jersey, thanks to the to the mental
health agencies, particularly ones like Care plus New Jersey, you
know they have help spearheaded where we they're sending a
lot of licensed clinical social workers into the schools to
do extra counseling because you know, the schools need more
(24:38):
and more help. So there's a lot of mental health
agencies now that are on site in the schools, and
they're also providing resources to the students and the parents,
you know, in the form of information about mindfulness practices
including yoga, deep breathing, you know. So these are all
great additional resources now out for the schools. For these
(25:02):
are the public schools, middle schools, elementary schools, and high schools,
you know. So a lot of people come into mental
health through the schools. Now, if you're a young child
and your family's having a crisis, there's perform Care in
New Jersey is the fastest way you call there. If
(25:24):
you go on the number for perform Care for a
children's crisis, you'll get immediate help that comes to the home.
So that's a way to get services in place quicker. Now,
others who are just trying to find, you know, a
private mental health therapist. That's where things get a little
trickier because it depends on are you looking to see
(25:49):
somebody in an office? Are you looking to see somebody virtually?
Does your child or teenager also need medication? So in
that case, you know, will they need a psychiaty or
a nurse practitioner that prescribes medicine in addition to the
traditional kind of talk therapy. And that's where you know,
(26:09):
a lot of these conversations are happening about where to
go and you know, so and so has a waiting list,
or they don't take my insurance. And these are all
the kind of struggles that that I'm hearing from because
it makes a big difference where you're going for help,
depending if you're going to private pay, meaning you're just
(26:29):
going to pay for the sessions, you know, out of pocket,
or you're trying to find a therapist or a group
practice that's in network with your insurance. So you see
how complicated it gets. We talked about Sigma Free, and
we talk about promoting you know, access to mental health services.
But then it comes down to Okay, I recognize I,
(26:53):
or myself, my child, my loved one needs help. Now
where do I go to get that help? And that
I really need to have more information and education about.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I agree, No, it's true, and I know for a
fact that during COVID, I mean, there were waiting lists
to be seen by someone because people were having.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Crisis at the crisis.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
There was a lot going on during COVID, which is
why I mean, I'm grateful for COVID for one thing.
It wrought mental health to the forefront, and you had
celebrities and sports figures saying, hey, I get depressed too.
I even heard on I think it was one on
one point five they had a town meeting of mental health.
(27:50):
And I'm like, hallelujah. But why why did it have
to take COVID. It should have always been that way.
It should have to me too, I mean, always been
accepted and to be that way. And you know, with insurance,
I have Medicare and a supplement, and I'm thankful that
Medicare covers mental health. And it's important two, you know,
(28:18):
to get the help that you need. I know that
in my town. I'm in New Jersey. I live in
Woolbridge Township. In Wolbridge Township, the Senior Center they offer
free counseling. That's one way you know people, or they
did a few years ago, Like pretty sure they probably
still do. You know, check with your senior center where
(28:44):
you live and see if they were for free counseling.
I couldn't believe it that they did. But I needed something.
I needed someone with more time and more tense training.
So I went back to the psychologist that I saw
(29:04):
when I was caregiving for met, and I'm you know,
I'm doing much better. But it's really you know, combination,
excuse me, thank you, a combination. It's my I've had
some terrific guests and then the health build who wrote
(29:25):
books that I've read which helped me a lot. So
you see, folks, I have resources on not just to
help you, but to help me, because you know I
need to help.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I know other people need help.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And you know, during COVID there was just so much
going on. You hear about you know, the healthcare workers,
the crisis, they had, the doctors having some kind of
post traumatic afterwards from all the death that they even
(30:02):
caregivers and it's not being recognized finally as caregiver post traumatic,
finally being recognized. I had talked about that, you know,
years ago, and I was told, oh, there's no such thing.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Well there is, and caregivers have it. I know I do.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
And it's just you know, the the service people have
some kind of post traumatic And someone told me a
quote and I don't remember who it was, that not
all wounds are visible and some are invisible. Excuse me,
(30:44):
And you know, we can't see inside somebody's mind. And
that is why I always say, Tammy, you know, be
kind and have respect and treat people with respect and dignity.
That's what everybody wants, That's what everyone deserves, and that's
what everyone should have.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
And I think, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
We we need to see uh more of that. And
I hope that insurance does cover mental health. I know
even when I had new Jersey Health that covered Dick
cover mental health, so that what was good to know.
(31:33):
Always check folks with your insurance to see.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
You know, who's in.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Your area, because you know there's fifty states and in
you know other countries, so always check in your area.
I also have a story to share with you, Tammy.
I know you'd appreciate this. Felks, here here's my story.
Don't judge people who go for support because you never
(32:04):
know when you may need it. And I'm going to
tell you the story. Has said this before. My sister
made fun of me, well no kinds of names for
going for therapy. A few years later she went for therapy.
So you know, I personally I don't take medication, but
(32:26):
if somebody needs to take medication, don't judge them or
make fun of them for that.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
We do what we have to do to get through
a hump in our life.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
And I always say, you don't know what life is
going to throw at you. That you might find yourself
needing a psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, social worker, whoever you might
need to help support you during a rough time. So
don't judge others because you could end up needing therapy yourself.
(32:59):
And how would you want to be treated? Would you
want someone stigmatizing you, calling you names? And I get
on myself bucked, but I digress. But I had to
share that story.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
I'm so glad you did, and I too, shout out
to all the caregivers because it's really rough and hard
to take care of somebody else. And in the midst
of caring for somebody else, of course, your person's gonna
have feelings. They're gonna have a whole range of feelings.
(33:31):
And sometimes it's really hard when a caregiver suffers from
guilt because a lot of the time, don't get frustrated,
they'll get tired, they'll want to break. They may even
say things or have thoughts about the person they're taking
care of that, you know, make them uncomfortable. And that's
a huge area where people struggle and even them trying
(33:54):
to find help. I've heard from from people who are caregivers.
I don't even have time to go to see a
therapist because I have nobody to watch the person that
I'm caregiving for. So this is an area again where
now that we have more access to virtual therapy, that
that can be helpful. But a reminder to everyone who's
(34:17):
you know, thinking about virtual therapy, having privacy is a
huge component of that. So if you're not comfortable talking
to a therapist in a place where you have other
people around, especially if you might want to be talking
about the person that's there. I've done a lot of
therapy and cars since COVID, a lot of therapy and cars,
(34:41):
And I mean you think about it, and a lot
of people are in their cars doing work from cars.
Moms cry from cars, you know. The cars have become
kind of a place to a place of refuge, you know.
But that's that's the one caveat I put out there
because the that access to the virtual care is fabulous,
(35:04):
but only when there's privacy, because we also want to
keep people safe, and the last thing I'd want as
a therapist is for somebody to talk about someone to
me and then they find out that that person was
in the next room and hurt everything they said. So
we always have safety in mind too, that this is
(35:28):
therapy is a sacred place. I went into this work
to help people and to provide that compassionate professional care,
but that's also reminding people to be safe and to
also have a space where they can feel like their
needs are heard. And you know, the caregivers, it's so
(35:52):
such important work and we don't value it enough all
the time. And I think it is something you don't
really appreciate or think much about until you find yourself
in that situation and then it's like wow. And you know.
Along the lines also of what you were talking about
with the seniors is I should have mentioned that before,
so thanks for the reminder. Is seniors with mental health
(36:17):
is a huge area still with stigma because, like we
were talking about it at the very beginning, back in
the day, we didn't talk about mental health. So out
of all the people now, the seniors sometimes are the
ones that will struggle the most because they still believe
that they shouldn't, you know, have to see a therapist.
(36:38):
That's back in the day when when we couldn't even
say cancer. Cancer was the C word. So, like, you know,
to them, therapy is like even worse than that. So
I know that there's a lot of senior centers that
are doing a lot more work with education and talking
about the importance of getting help, and a lot of
(36:59):
senior there's especially struggle, you know, if they feel alone
or they're struggling with financial stresses where the people around them,
they don't have people that are living nearby. There's a
whole bunch of issues that the seniors face that are
unique to them in their age group.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So we just want to cut it out absolutely.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I actually I have a story related to that. Jimmy,
my brother died in twenty twenty one, my older brother,
and my mom was I think ninety at the time
or ninety one, and I suggested to my mom for
grief counseling. It was the first time in her life
(37:46):
she was alone, ever alone, ever lived alone.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
And my mother bit my head off, she goes, I.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Don't need to tell anyone my feelings. It's no one's business.
I don't air my dirty laundry. I keep it to myself.
That is soone from the World War two time folks,
they just will not, you know, open up. And I
felt so bad for my mom, Tammy, because I know
(38:15):
she was struggling, and yet she wouldn't thought it was
horrible to go for help and to acknowledge her feelings
and to talk about it. That she considered that airing
her dirty laundry even then, And I think that's a
very strong concept that people in their eighties and nineties have,
(38:40):
that that if they go to a therapist, they're airing
the dirty laundry, and you know, you're not you need support,
and you know, I just felt bad that she suffered
inside when she didn't have to. And that's I think
very common with that age grow was they cool the
(39:04):
silent I think they're cooled, the silent ones. You know,
they grew up in the thirties and forties, and I
had to be silent because the war was.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Going on, excuse me. And it's really.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
A shame, you know, my I think my mom and
I butted heads because you know, I mean, you know,
I'm shy. I was an advocate. I would stand up
for myself and other people, where my mom was like,
you know, Betsy, be quiet. Don't make ways, you know,
(39:41):
like there was a problem when my dad.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Was in a nursing home. I say, want me to
say something.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
No, no, no, I don't want to make trouble. No
now me. I will close a tsunami tammy, I don't care.
I will open my big mouth and I did.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
But you know it's really.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I just want to urge everyone out there, no matter
how old you are, if you're struggling, please seek support.
You don't have to keep it to yourself. And I
think a lot of people don't realize, and caregivers, especially,
the mortality rate among caregivers is very high, and the
(40:25):
older you are, the higher the mortality rates because of stress.
So I want to encourage caregivers seek support wherever you
are in this world. You can't handle this alone. You
don't have to handle it alone. And that's why you
know we're here. This is why I do my show.
(40:48):
I want people to about resources. And everyone thinks they're
alone and how they feel, and you're not. There's other
people who have the same struggles. They just won't talk
about it. And that's why I believe in sharing our experiences.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
And our stories to help other people.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Very you're amazing.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I think you, uh, what kind of therapy do you
do in your practice? Tammy excuse?
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah, So I so I see adults, adolescents and couples,
you know, for for therapy. I have training, like I
said before, in Greece. I help people with depression, anxiety, caregiving,
the aging process, you know, divorce, finding yourself, all the
(41:42):
all the reasons that people would would see counseling for.
And I do have a training in trauma, and so,
you know, I always tell people when they're looking for
a therapist that it's kind of like finding a pair
of genes. There's a lot of a lot of styles
out there. There's a lot of trainings and certifications and
(42:04):
fancy letters that people can have after their name, but
it's got to feel like the right fit. And sometimes,
you know, I've heard from people like oh, I want
to find a therapist that does that, and they find
that therapist, but then they meet the person and they're like, eh,
I don't know. It's kind of like those genes, you know,
they're too tight or they're they're not the right Downum,
(42:25):
you want the washed pine with the rip holes. So
you know, there's there's there's somebody out there for you,
and it's it's a matter sometimes of shopping around and
actually some people actually will shop for jeans with more
care than they'll shop for a therapist. So you know,
you do want to kind of feel like the person
(42:47):
that you're with is going to be a person that
you feel respects you, understands you, is listening to you.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Sometimes you know, it takes trying a couple maybe even
my three or four or a few until you find
that right therapist. But when you do, that's like hitting
a pot of gold, that's for sure, it really is.
And I know I've tried several until I found, uh someone,
(43:22):
And matter of fact, I said, you know, I tried
a women's therapists and I didn't care for the ones
that I had met, and I said, let me try
a male therapist.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
See how they are.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
And and I really like the person, uh that I
that I see. And you know, it's just that, like
anything else, you know, trial and error. But I am
grateful tan me for you, uh they're coming on the
show and spending time with me, and for the work
(43:55):
that you do to help other people.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
It is just so important.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
And I didn't even you know, touch about you know,
young people and well people of all ages and and
how the suicide rate is up.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
But I really would love to have you come back
on my show.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
There's so many areas of mental health uh to discuss.
I think September is Suicide Prevention months.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
It is, so it is. Yeah, you're right, there's so
much to talk about with mental health, and of course
it's it's my passion, so I could I could go
on for hours, but you know, it's it's a topic
that is so important and with all the all the
things that we've touched upon, it is just hitting the
(44:45):
tip of the iceberg. Each area could have its own
show and then show after that. So you know, this
is kind of an overview for you know, Maya's Mental
Health Awareness Months to try to like kind of give
an eye idea of all the ideas out there. But
it's a topic well worth delving more into. So thank
(45:07):
you for your passion, thank you for your commitment to caregiving,
to advocating, to being the kind of person you are
who wants to make other people feel heard and respected
and loved. I hear a lot of love from you,
a lot of care. So tutous to you for the
(45:28):
amazing work you do.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Oh, thank you so much, Stammy. I'm getting getting emotional
over here up a club.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Thank you so much for your kind words. Where can
people contact you for your counseling services that live in
New Jersey?
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Sure? My name is Tammy Smith and my practice is t. M.
Smith Counseling and I'm located in t Neck on Cedar
Lane across from Holy Name Hall Still so you can
reach out to me there. My website is Tmsmithcounseling dot com.
(46:08):
You can also find me on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram,
I'm on Facebook. Uh, I've I've gotten hip with having
all my social media handles. Uh like to like to
grow grow with the times and and uh, you know,
join join the virtual world that's out there. You know,
(46:31):
a therapist as a therapist, I started just like most
other therapists in office, but as you mentioned, COVID helped
us expand into the telemedicine world, which has given us
so much more opportunity for growth. And uh, we're still
learning as we go along. And uh, it's it's definitely
(46:53):
advantageous for for people, especially those who don't have access
to transportation or who are caregivers and and need you know,
need to do therapy from the home and also just
to throw out their hybrid is there. So I do
have some people that alternate between coming in person and
doing telehealth. You know, if the car has a flat tire,
(47:17):
they no longer have to cancel. Oh, they just let
me know we're gonna do virtual today and we log on.
So you know, that's that's another added bonus. So now
we have for options for therapy in person in the
office exclusively telehealth and hybrid.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
So it's sad time, yes it is.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
And I'm thankful for virtual. My psychologist does virtual. Uh
he did during COVID and he continued, and I don't
blame him. Hey, you save on rent, you're staying.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
That's a big big expense that uh.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
You know, people save on when they when they you know,
don't have an office, if that's what they choose to do.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Uh, plus older, you know, so I understand that.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Well, thank you so much Tammy Smith for coming on today.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
I'd love to have you on again, folks.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
All the information about Tammy Smith will be in the
block that Genie White is a station manager, writes and
produces the show. I would definitely encourage if you were
in New Jersey and you're looking for someone, check out
Tammy Smith. Go on her website, look at her social pages,
(48:33):
and you know, see if Timmy will be a fit.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
And I also.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Want to encourage caregiversgivers, if you're hearing this, you're in
New Jersey, you can't do it on your own.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
It's okay to go for help. It's okay to struggle.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
I needed counseling midway in that journey because I thought
I had to be superwoman. You don't have to be superwoman.
You don't have to be superman or whatever your gender
is or however you identify. It's okay to say I
need support and to talk to someone.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
And if you're grieving and you.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Need support, that's okay too. Grieving is forever. It just changes,
but it's with you forever. And we'll always love and.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Miss Erra, loved one.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Don't let anyone tell you anything different. Love does not end,
it continues on. And I also wanted to thank Lili Caldwell,
who's CEO of Fashionable Talk Radio makes this possible. I
want to thank you the listeners, thank you for listening, subscribing,
and if you don't ready to do so Channing with
Bettius for free on iHeart, Amazon Music, Spotify, and Speaker,
(49:50):
to name just a few, and you can follow me
on Facebook. That's Ce Worzel w r z e L.
And as I always say at the end of my show, Oh,
before I say that, I want to say, Andrea Passed
for arranging this interview. Andrea Passes, owner of Andrea Passed
public Relations. So thank you, Andrea. So glad I had
(50:13):
the opportunity to talk to Tammy Smith. And as I
always say at the end of my show, in the
world where you could be anything, please be kind and
shine your life bright because we need it now more
than ever before. And so we chat again. This is
Betsy Wurzel. You're a host of Chatting with Betsy on
(50:34):
Passion World Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global Media
Network LC.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Bye bye now
Hello everyone. This is Betsy Worzel. You're a host of
Chatting with Betsy Mantasha, Rolltalk Radio Network, which is as
asiderary of Global Media Network LLC our mantrance to educate,
enlightened and entertain folks. This is the month of May,
as you all know, and May it's a mental health
(00:22):
awareness months and I have a special guest today. But
before I introduce my guest, I want to encourage everyone.
If you are struggling with mental health care issues, please
consult your primary care doctor in your area for mental
(00:42):
health referrals. It is okay to seek support. I do,
and I am not ashamed then I do see someone
and I highly recommend counseling just to help whatever struggle
you're facing right now. And if you are in the US,
please call nine to eighty eight if you are in crisis,
(01:05):
and as always, referred to your primary care doctor about
any mental health or medical concerns. Well with me today,
it's so timely. With me today is Tammy Smith, who
is a licensed clinical social worker in Teeneck, New Jersey.
And I'm so happy that I have someone from New
Jersey on the show. Jammy is an advanced candidate at
(01:28):
the five year postgraduate training program in Psychoanalysis at New
Jersey Institute for Psychoanalysis. She's trained in rational emotive behavioral
therapy through the Albert Ellis Institute in New York City,
(01:49):
sensorymotor therapy at Pat Ogden's Centsory Motor Psychotherapy Institute, Body
focused and repetitive behavior through the TLC Foundation, and complicated
can read my handwriting Prolonged.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Grief through Columbia University. Wow.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Well, I would say that Tammy Smith is an expert
in her field. And I and chosen as Tammy Smith
Counseling located in New Jersey said, if you are in
New Jersey and you were hearing this, the link to
Tammy Smith's business.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Will be in the blog. And I want to welcome
Tammy Smith to Johnny with Betsy. Welcome Tammy.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Thank you so much, it's great to be here today.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Well, thank you for coming on. Tammy. I have to
say this.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
I'm sixty seven and back in the seventies, nineteen seventy
four when I first went to a social worker for
depression not talked about back then. It was actually I
was shamed for going for help. And I'm so glad
(03:10):
that the tide is turning, and I think it's turned
since COVID when mental health be king at the forefront.
But I know there's still stigmas and that's what we're
going to address today.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Could you tell us about.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
In your opinion as a professional, what stigmas are you
still seeing with mental health care issues.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yeah, I'm so glad that you bring that up. We
have made so many strides in mental health. It's amazing.
I live here, like you said, in New Jersey, and
we now have stigma free, which is a movement that
was started actually Mary anne Uzzi helped spearhead it in
Paramus was the first town that became stigma free, and
(04:01):
then every other town kind of hopped on board. And
we have signs that are on streets, we have hospitals,
we have schools that have designated themselves as stigma free buildings,
and institutions which are trying to promote this idea that
it's okay to struggle with mental health, it's okay to
(04:23):
talk about it, and more importantly, to point people to
the appropriate resources so they can get the much help
that they need. What we're still seeing though, myself, particularly
as a therapist is workplace. It's still a little hard
for people to say to their boss, you know, their supervisors,
(04:48):
I'm having a rough day. You know, I need a
quote unquote mental health guy. A lot of organizations promote it,
they put out newsletters, they kind of encourage it, but
when it comes right down to it, I have people
that come to see me that say they still don't
often feel comfortable coming out directly and say it, so
(05:09):
they'll they'll resort to you know, I have a headache,
but my kid is sick. The other excuses that have
become more acceptable to views at work. So I'd really
like to see being able to comfortably disclose at work
is an area I think where we're still a little
bit behind us. That's our that's our hope. Where stigma
(05:33):
is getting a lot better is with the younger people,
with the younger kids.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
The idea of the buddy bench, I don't know if
you've heard about that. They have a buddy bench hope, which, Yeah,
it's a bench that are in schools now where it
was designed as a place that a kid could go
who felt lonely. And the ideas you see a kid
on the bench and you you go over and you know,
kind of a place where have kids feel less alone.
(06:02):
And so this idea that kids are becoming more sensitive
to each other, I think is a huge nice thing
to say. I have a son who has become very
sensitive and attuned to the kids, and you know, they
start to notice. This one struggles with this, and this
(06:23):
one struggles with that. It used to be, like you said,
when we were kids and being pulled out of a
class to have to get extra help was looked at
a lot differently.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, yes, that's the sure.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh kay, I mean I just I can hug you
right now for just mentioning those two.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Topics.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Because the workplace, I've done many interviews with people about
how really mental health needs to be addressed in the workplace,
how CEOs management set the example, set the role model,
and especially I feel like with grieving. You know, when
(07:10):
someone comes back to work and they lost their staff
or their parents or child, whoever they lost, and they're
not going to be jumping right back in like they
were before. It might take a period of adjustment, and
you know, how does the workplace address that without judging
(07:30):
that person? And I had to share a story with
you when I was caregiving for my husband and I
was extremely stressed out working forty hours a week, you know,
running the home caregiving and then to two people, my
son who has gone to disability and met my husband
had early on said Alzheimer's, and I didn't realize I
(07:54):
was snapped at the children like I was just unaverge.
You know, of a breakdown, I think because I thought
I had to be the strong person and I got
my hours cut.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Down, wasn't I sort?
Speaker 1 (08:10):
I wasn't happy about that, but I'm glad and I
went for counseling and people notice the change in me.
And I mean, I highly recommend counseling. And you know,
sometimes we don't realize our behavior until someone you know,
points it out to us. And then a time, I
(08:31):
tell you what just drives me bunkers for lack of
better word, as I can't stand it.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
When people tell others be strong. I just want to.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I don't advocate violence, folks, but that sometimes I just
want to just slip upside the head when they say
be strong or snap out of it because we don't
have to be strong. And when people think, especially people
my age and older and especially men, nothing against men.
(09:07):
I love you guys, but you know, men my age
and in my growing up, you know, we were taught
crying is a weakness, showing your emotions as a weakness.
You're weak if you go for help, even as a female,
and it's not and it takes years to undo that.
(09:30):
And I'm so glad that children are being more sensitive
and aware, you know, other feelings and helping each other,
and that there's resources now, which is one reason why
I do my show is.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
To provide resources, you know, for people.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
That I wish I had, or that I wish I
knew about when I was caregiving or growing up.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Excuse me, and I.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Think it's so important. And I see this a lot
cammy and caregiving groups where people think, oh, I have
to be strong, I can't cry, I can't do do that,
and they don't realize it's just harming themselves.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Can you address that a little bit? Sure?
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Sure? And I just for a second, if it's okay,
I want to just piggyback a little bit off of
what you've said about grief, because another area that people
struggle with grief in that's not as often talked about
is their pets. In your intro, when you said that
I have some training in grief counseling. A lot of
(10:49):
people have a very hard time when they lose a pet,
a dog, a cat, a parrot, one of these pets
that they have grown very close to. And that's another
time where people feel hesitant to tell others, I'm really
struggling because my cat died, my dog died. And oftentimes
(11:10):
that loss is even harder for a lot of folks
than the death of people, because we're talking about mental health,
we're talking about stigma. People feel more comfortable hugging their
animals sometimes than people. So I just wanted to throw
that out there as part of the grief training world.
That is, people are mentioning that they you too, worried
(11:34):
about their pets, you know, And a lot of folks
who are parents can sometimes also have some thoughts about
when someone says they call them they call their pets
their children, and like, oh, those aren't your kids. You
don't know, you don't have kids. That's something else to
become more aware of is we can say a lot
of things from our own experience. We don't know often
(11:58):
the real reasons why people don't have children, why they
do consider their pets as children, whether they were suffering
with issues pertaining to fertility or finance. It's just a
reminder that, you know, we can be so much more
supportive of each other if we come to others from
a place of more like curiosity and compassion rather than
(12:22):
that judgment. So I just ain't going to eat about see.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I love you, Tammy, Thank you. That is really so important.
I mean I never had a pet except for I
think a couple of days, and we had to get
rid of the dogs and mother was.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
Allergic to it.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
So I don't understand that loss, just like I don't
understand the loss.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Of a child, and I hope I never do.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
But just to be compassionate and just don't say to
people I know how you feel, because you do not
know how they feel, especially if you didn't had a
type of loss, and even if you did, everyone's different.
But just to say I'm here for you and hold
space for them and just let them cry, let them
(13:11):
talk to you, and just give them a hug, just
say I'm here for you. And I wish more people
would realize that, Pammy.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
And you know, as we're talking about this, it's not
that hard, but I guess maybe it is right. Some
of the things that.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Just seem like they'd be common sense, but you know,
at the space sometimes about common sense, but really not
to be judgmental seems to be a real challenge for
a lot of people. But if someone is opening up
to you or just talking to you about how they feel,
they don't want Most of the time, they don't want advice,
(13:50):
They don't want you to try to talk them out
of anything. They just really want to be heard. The
people want to be seen.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
And yes, I think if we can let us carve
out a little bit more room for that, we'd already
be accomplishing so much more.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
I agree. I used to say, you can't fix our.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Grief, and we're.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Not asking to be sexed, and other people think, oh no,
don't cry, or if they want to fix you, they
can't be fixed. You know the person's gone, and you
know it's the acceptance. And I'll tell you Tammy and
my husband died in twenty twenty, and it took me
(14:41):
five years to be able to enjoy holidays again because
Matt was dying during the holiday time between Thanksgiving and
New Year's He died on New Year's Day twenty twenty
and it took me a long time to enjoy holiday
music and how and I used to think, and that's
(15:03):
why I saw grief therapy, what is wrong with me?
Why am I still feeling like this? I shouldn't feel
like this? And I've kind to find out that it's
okay to feel the way that I do, and I'm
going to feel the way that I do, and just
to concept that and to acknowledge it.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
It helps me on to let me go forward. I
try to share that.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
I'm so glad you did. There is no wrong way
to go through the grief process. You know, we have
it in our heads, like you said that there's I
should be over this by now, what's wrong with me?
Grief comes, and part of it is just accepting when
it does come. Like waves on the ocean, you're gonna
(15:53):
come and they're gonna go. And some waves are really
big and when they hit they feel like, you know,
being held under And some waves, you know by the beach,
they just come. They barely tickle your feet, they just
come and they go. And so we basically learn to
surf through life. I know it can sound a little simplistic,
but sometimes the simple concrete images are a way to
(16:16):
really understand more complicated thoughts and ideas. But if we
just imagine feelings and grief is a certain kind of
feeling that it comes and it goes, and that way,
when it does come, we're a little bit more prepared
for it. You know, the first time you take a
kid right to the ocean and you introduce a kid
(16:37):
to it's like, wow, what is this thing. It's it's big,
it's scary, it's water, it's gonna Some kids are excited,
some kids are afraid. But once we get used to something,
we know a little bit more what to expect, and
I think sometimes that does help make it a little
bit easier. That's where education and awareness come in. And
(16:58):
along those lines, I like to sometimes think about mental
health like preventative health. You know, it's if you go
to a dentist, then you keep your appointment, you know,
for your cleanings, you get the thing every six months
you're supposed to go. The dentist gets to check your teeth,
and not all the time, but a lot of the times,
(17:19):
especially if you have a good relationship with your dentists.
And dental care and insurance is a whole other topic
for another podcast. Neccess to medical care. But if we're
gonna use the idea of the dentist, you know, when
they look in your mouth, they can sometimes see the
problem areas and they keep an eye on it and
(17:42):
sometimes preventative care, that's the way you can try to
prevent the root canal. So I like to look at
mental health as also. It's popular to talk about wellness now.
If we're doing things on a regular basis to take
care of ourselves, which goes along with enough rest and
proper diet, enough exercise, it's kind of like therese wellness checkups.
(18:06):
A lot of the times we can prevent something bigger
from happening. And having a therapist is somebody that you
can see that gets to know you the same way
you know a dentist or a doctor gets to know
certain parts of the mouth or the body that that's hurting.
They can help you start to see patterns, start to
see that those problem areas. Let's keep an eye on that.
(18:30):
You know, come back next week and we'll make sure
that we're taking care of things as they go. And
I like when I talk to people, they really kind
of resonate with the whole idea of of wellness things
and check ups, so another way to kind of decrease
(18:51):
the stigma.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yes, yes, And you know, back in my youth, it
seemed like yesterday people, you know, you didn't talk about
mental health, you didn't talk about your feelings.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
You know.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I was kind of like suck it up with the
attitude at that time. And people, I've been a mental
health advocate tammy for well since I was a teenager,
so you know, like over fifty years. People think, oh,
someone is weak because they go for help, and quite opposite,
(19:31):
it's a strong person in my opinion, that goes for help,
especially when they are getting guest with and shamed for going.
It takes a strong person to still go for help
when they're being attacked in their family environment like I was.
(19:51):
And I'm not ashamed to say that. I'm not ashamed
to talk about my past, and I talk about it
because maybe it will help inspire someone else to go
for help, to seek support. I think as parents and
you can touch on this tammy. If you see your
(20:12):
child depressed, please don't think it's just a phase and
it's gonna go away. And your child comes to you
and says I'm depressed, I'm sad I need support. Please
take them. I beg you to take them, because when
your child comes to you for help and you ignore it,
(20:36):
and you ignore them, they're gonna go seek help from
other places that you may not want them to seek
help from. Oh what I like your advice on that
Tammy was like for parents? What should they look for?
I guess depends on the age of the child. Of course,
(20:59):
when they're eighteen, you know they're an adult, your own
you know, that's when you should get then the therapy
before they're eighteen, excuse me, because the therapist doesn't have
to tell the parent what's going on when their eighteen.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Yeah, there's so many ways to approach therapy with kids now,
and it seems like every day there's even more more
ideas and suggestions. So I can definitely touch on a
few of those areas. But first of all, you know,
I've had my son in therapist since he was seven,
more along the lines of preventative care, and he really
(21:43):
didn't need the help when I got him into therapy,
but I knew that as he got older and so
become a teenager, he would benefit from having somebody to
talk to. And by that point, the relationship would already
be in place, so he is with the same person
he started with when he was younger. And I've always
(22:04):
liked that idea because who's not going to be able
to benefit from having a trusting adult, you know, being
an adolescent is a really difficult time. But I understand
most parents aren't going to approach mental health quite like that.
I was a therapist in my own therapy that wanted
my own child to be in therapy. But for those
(22:26):
who are just wondering, does my kid need to see
a therapist? Would my teenager benefit from it? So the question,
of course is does the child need it? It depends
some kids really want therapy, believe it or not. It
has become somewhat of a status symbol a little bit
in the college group especially. I've had quite a few
(22:51):
college students that have logged on for virtual sessions and
they're in a dorm room, and they actually all have
their therapists, and they kind of sign out their dorm
room like tonight, I have my therapy, tomorrow, you have
your therapy. And I am tickled in such a pleasant
way that this is so open with these college kids
that you know they have to kind of fight for
(23:13):
the privacy to have their telehealth therapy sessions. So with
the college group, there's a lot of information on college campuses.
So a lot of times that's the first entry for
a college student is they're struggling on campus, and you know,
the college campuses have mental health centers, so that's the
(23:34):
easy way for a college student to get pretty quick
kind of help. And then they can find additional resources
because usually the college counseling only offers a few sessions
and then you know, they'll either help or the families
would try to find a therapist that can continue, especially
(23:55):
if somebody is on campus and then going home during
breaks or over the summer. So schools now have a
lot more therapists in the building than they ever have before.
And it used to just be that you had, you know,
one school, one school psychologist, one school social worker. But
(24:16):
here in New Jersey, thanks to the to the mental
health agencies, particularly ones like Care plus New Jersey, you
know they have help spearheaded where we they're sending a
lot of licensed clinical social workers into the schools to
do extra counseling because you know, the schools need more
(24:38):
and more help. So there's a lot of mental health
agencies now that are on site in the schools, and
they're also providing resources to the students and the parents,
you know, in the form of information about mindfulness practices
including yoga, deep breathing, you know. So these are all
great additional resources now out for the schools. For these
(25:02):
are the public schools, middle schools, elementary schools, and high schools,
you know. So a lot of people come into mental
health through the schools. Now, if you're a young child
and your family's having a crisis, there's perform Care in
New Jersey is the fastest way you call there. If
(25:24):
you go on the number for perform Care for a
children's crisis, you'll get immediate help that comes to the home.
So that's a way to get services in place quicker. Now,
others who are just trying to find, you know, a
private mental health therapist. That's where things get a little
trickier because it depends on are you looking to see
(25:49):
somebody in an office? Are you looking to see somebody virtually?
Does your child or teenager also need medication? So in
that case, you know, will they need a psychiaty or
a nurse practitioner that prescribes medicine in addition to the
traditional kind of talk therapy. And that's where you know,
(26:09):
a lot of these conversations are happening about where to
go and you know, so and so has a waiting list,
or they don't take my insurance. And these are all
the kind of struggles that that I'm hearing from because
it makes a big difference where you're going for help,
depending if you're going to private pay, meaning you're just
(26:29):
going to pay for the sessions, you know, out of pocket,
or you're trying to find a therapist or a group
practice that's in network with your insurance. So you see
how complicated it gets. We talked about Sigma Free, and
we talk about promoting you know, access to mental health services.
But then it comes down to Okay, I recognize I,
(26:53):
or myself, my child, my loved one needs help. Now
where do I go to get that help? And that
I really need to have more information and education about.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I agree, No, it's true, and I know for a
fact that during COVID, I mean, there were waiting lists
to be seen by someone because people were having.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Crisis at the crisis.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
There was a lot going on during COVID, which is
why I mean, I'm grateful for COVID for one thing.
It wrought mental health to the forefront, and you had
celebrities and sports figures saying, hey, I get depressed too.
I even heard on I think it was one on
one point five they had a town meeting of mental health.
(27:50):
And I'm like, hallelujah. But why why did it have
to take COVID. It should have always been that way.
It should have to me too, I mean, always been
accepted and to be that way. And you know, with insurance,
I have Medicare and a supplement, and I'm thankful that
Medicare covers mental health. And it's important two, you know,
(28:18):
to get the help that you need. I know that
in my town. I'm in New Jersey. I live in
Woolbridge Township. In Wolbridge Township, the Senior Center they offer
free counseling. That's one way you know people, or they
did a few years ago, Like pretty sure they probably
still do. You know, check with your senior center where
(28:44):
you live and see if they were for free counseling.
I couldn't believe it that they did. But I needed something.
I needed someone with more time and more tense training.
So I went back to the psychologist that I saw
(29:04):
when I was caregiving for met, and I'm you know,
I'm doing much better. But it's really you know, combination,
excuse me, thank you, a combination. It's my I've had
some terrific guests and then the health build who wrote
(29:25):
books that I've read which helped me a lot. So
you see, folks, I have resources on not just to
help you, but to help me, because you know I
need to help.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I know other people need help.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And you know, during COVID there was just so much
going on. You hear about you know, the healthcare workers,
the crisis, they had, the doctors having some kind of
post traumatic afterwards from all the death that they even
(30:02):
caregivers and it's not being recognized finally as caregiver post traumatic,
finally being recognized. I had talked about that, you know,
years ago, and I was told, oh, there's no such thing.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Well there is, and caregivers have it. I know I do.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
And it's just you know, the the service people have
some kind of post traumatic And someone told me a
quote and I don't remember who it was, that not
all wounds are visible and some are invisible. Excuse me,
(30:44):
And you know, we can't see inside somebody's mind. And
that is why I always say, Tammy, you know, be
kind and have respect and treat people with respect and dignity.
That's what everybody wants, That's what everyone deserves, and that's
what everyone should have.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
And I think, you know.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
We we need to see uh more of that. And
I hope that insurance does cover mental health. I know
even when I had new Jersey Health that covered Dick
cover mental health, so that what was good to know.
(31:33):
Always check folks with your insurance to see.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
You know, who's in.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Your area, because you know there's fifty states and in
you know other countries, so always check in your area.
I also have a story to share with you, Tammy.
I know you'd appreciate this. Felks, here here's my story.
Don't judge people who go for support because you never
(32:04):
know when you may need it. And I'm going to
tell you the story. Has said this before. My sister
made fun of me, well no kinds of names for
going for therapy. A few years later she went for therapy.
So you know, I personally I don't take medication, but
(32:26):
if somebody needs to take medication, don't judge them or
make fun of them for that.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
We do what we have to do to get through
a hump in our life.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
And I always say, you don't know what life is
going to throw at you. That you might find yourself
needing a psychiatrist, psychologist, therapist, social worker, whoever you might
need to help support you during a rough time. So
don't judge others because you could end up needing therapy yourself.
(32:59):
And how would you want to be treated? Would you
want someone stigmatizing you, calling you names? And I get
on myself bucked, but I digress. But I had to
share that story.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
I'm so glad you did, and I too, shout out
to all the caregivers because it's really rough and hard
to take care of somebody else. And in the midst
of caring for somebody else, of course, your person's gonna
have feelings. They're gonna have a whole range of feelings.
(33:31):
And sometimes it's really hard when a caregiver suffers from
guilt because a lot of the time, don't get frustrated,
they'll get tired, they'll want to break. They may even
say things or have thoughts about the person they're taking
care of that, you know, make them uncomfortable. And that's
a huge area where people struggle and even them trying
(33:54):
to find help. I've heard from from people who are caregivers.
I don't even have time to go to see a
therapist because I have nobody to watch the person that
I'm caregiving for. So this is an area again where
now that we have more access to virtual therapy, that
that can be helpful. But a reminder to everyone who's
(34:17):
you know, thinking about virtual therapy, having privacy is a
huge component of that. So if you're not comfortable talking
to a therapist in a place where you have other
people around, especially if you might want to be talking
about the person that's there. I've done a lot of
therapy and cars since COVID, a lot of therapy and cars,
(34:41):
And I mean you think about it, and a lot
of people are in their cars doing work from cars.
Moms cry from cars, you know. The cars have become
kind of a place to a place of refuge, you know.
But that's that's the one caveat I put out there
because the that access to the virtual care is fabulous,
(35:04):
but only when there's privacy, because we also want to
keep people safe, and the last thing I'd want as
a therapist is for somebody to talk about someone to
me and then they find out that that person was
in the next room and hurt everything they said. So
we always have safety in mind too, that this is
(35:28):
therapy is a sacred place. I went into this work
to help people and to provide that compassionate professional care,
but that's also reminding people to be safe and to
also have a space where they can feel like their
needs are heard. And you know, the caregivers, it's so
(35:52):
such important work and we don't value it enough all
the time. And I think it is something you don't
really appreciate or think much about until you find yourself
in that situation and then it's like wow. And you know.
Along the lines also of what you were talking about
with the seniors is I should have mentioned that before,
so thanks for the reminder. Is seniors with mental health
(36:17):
is a huge area still with stigma because, like we
were talking about it at the very beginning, back in
the day, we didn't talk about mental health. So out
of all the people now, the seniors sometimes are the
ones that will struggle the most because they still believe
that they shouldn't, you know, have to see a therapist.
(36:38):
That's back in the day when when we couldn't even
say cancer. Cancer was the C word. So, like, you know,
to them, therapy is like even worse than that. So
I know that there's a lot of senior centers that
are doing a lot more work with education and talking
about the importance of getting help, and a lot of
(36:59):
senior there's especially struggle, you know, if they feel alone
or they're struggling with financial stresses where the people around them,
they don't have people that are living nearby. There's a
whole bunch of issues that the seniors face that are
unique to them in their age group.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
So we just want to cut it out absolutely.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
I actually I have a story related to that. Jimmy,
my brother died in twenty twenty one, my older brother,
and my mom was I think ninety at the time
or ninety one, and I suggested to my mom for
grief counseling. It was the first time in her life
(37:46):
she was alone, ever alone, ever lived alone.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
And my mother bit my head off, she goes, I.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Don't need to tell anyone my feelings. It's no one's business.
I don't air my dirty laundry. I keep it to myself.
That is soone from the World War two time folks,
they just will not, you know, open up. And I
felt so bad for my mom, Tammy, because I know
(38:15):
she was struggling, and yet she wouldn't thought it was
horrible to go for help and to acknowledge her feelings
and to talk about it. That she considered that airing
her dirty laundry even then, And I think that's a
very strong concept that people in their eighties and nineties have,
(38:40):
that that if they go to a therapist, they're airing
the dirty laundry, and you know, you're not you need support,
and you know, I just felt bad that she suffered
inside when she didn't have to. And that's I think
very common with that age grow was they cool the
(39:04):
silent I think they're cooled, the silent ones. You know,
they grew up in the thirties and forties, and I
had to be silent because the war was.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Going on, excuse me. And it's really.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
A shame, you know, my I think my mom and
I butted heads because you know, I mean, you know,
I'm shy. I was an advocate. I would stand up
for myself and other people, where my mom was like,
you know, Betsy, be quiet. Don't make ways, you know,
(39:41):
like there was a problem when my dad.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Was in a nursing home. I say, want me to
say something.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
No, no, no, I don't want to make trouble. No
now me. I will close a tsunami tammy, I don't care.
I will open my big mouth and I did.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
But you know it's really.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
I just want to urge everyone out there, no matter
how old you are, if you're struggling, please seek support.
You don't have to keep it to yourself. And I
think a lot of people don't realize, and caregivers, especially,
the mortality rate among caregivers is very high, and the
(40:25):
older you are, the higher the mortality rates because of stress.
So I want to encourage caregivers seek support wherever you
are in this world. You can't handle this alone. You
don't have to handle it alone. And that's why you
know we're here. This is why I do my show.
(40:48):
I want people to about resources. And everyone thinks they're
alone and how they feel, and you're not. There's other
people who have the same struggles. They just won't talk
about it. And that's why I believe in sharing our experiences.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
And our stories to help other people.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Very you're amazing.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I think you, uh, what kind of therapy do you
do in your practice? Tammy excuse?
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah, So I so I see adults, adolescents and couples,
you know, for for therapy. I have training, like I
said before, in Greece. I help people with depression, anxiety, caregiving,
the aging process, you know, divorce, finding yourself, all the
(41:42):
all the reasons that people would would see counseling for.
And I do have a training in trauma, and so,
you know, I always tell people when they're looking for
a therapist that it's kind of like finding a pair
of genes. There's a lot of a lot of styles
out there. There's a lot of trainings and certifications and
(42:04):
fancy letters that people can have after their name, but
it's got to feel like the right fit. And sometimes,
you know, I've heard from people like oh, I want
to find a therapist that does that, and they find
that therapist, but then they meet the person and they're like, eh,
I don't know. It's kind of like those genes, you know,
they're too tight or they're they're not the right Downum,
(42:25):
you want the washed pine with the rip holes. So
you know, there's there's there's somebody out there for you,
and it's it's a matter sometimes of shopping around and
actually some people actually will shop for jeans with more
care than they'll shop for a therapist. So you know,
you do want to kind of feel like the person
(42:47):
that you're with is going to be a person that
you feel respects you, understands you, is listening to you.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (42:57):
Sometimes you know, it takes trying a couple maybe even
my three or four or a few until you find
that right therapist. But when you do, that's like hitting
a pot of gold, that's for sure, it really is.
And I know I've tried several until I found, uh someone,
(43:22):
And matter of fact, I said, you know, I tried
a women's therapists and I didn't care for the ones
that I had met, and I said, let me try
a male therapist.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
See how they are.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
And and I really like the person, uh that I
that I see. And you know, it's just that, like
anything else, you know, trial and error. But I am
grateful tan me for you, uh they're coming on the
show and spending time with me, and for the work
(43:55):
that you do to help other people.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
It is just so important.
Speaker 1 (44:00):
And I didn't even you know, touch about you know,
young people and well people of all ages and and
how the suicide rate is up.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
But I really would love to have you come back
on my show.
Speaker 1 (44:15):
There's so many areas of mental health uh to discuss.
I think September is Suicide Prevention months.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
It is, so it is. Yeah, you're right, there's so
much to talk about with mental health, and of course
it's it's my passion, so I could I could go
on for hours, but you know, it's it's a topic
that is so important and with all the all the
things that we've touched upon, it is just hitting the
(44:45):
tip of the iceberg. Each area could have its own
show and then show after that. So you know, this
is kind of an overview for you know, Maya's Mental
Health Awareness Months to try to like kind of give
an eye idea of all the ideas out there. But
it's a topic well worth delving more into. So thank
(45:07):
you for your passion, thank you for your commitment to caregiving,
to advocating, to being the kind of person you are
who wants to make other people feel heard and respected
and loved. I hear a lot of love from you,
a lot of care. So tutous to you for the
(45:28):
amazing work you do.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Oh, thank you so much, Stammy. I'm getting getting emotional
over here up a club.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Thank you so much for your kind words. Where can
people contact you for your counseling services that live in
New Jersey?
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Sure? My name is Tammy Smith and my practice is t. M.
Smith Counseling and I'm located in t Neck on Cedar
Lane across from Holy Name Hall Still so you can
reach out to me there. My website is Tmsmithcounseling dot com.
(46:08):
You can also find me on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram,
I'm on Facebook. Uh, I've I've gotten hip with having
all my social media handles. Uh like to like to
grow grow with the times and and uh, you know,
join join the virtual world that's out there. You know,
(46:31):
a therapist as a therapist, I started just like most
other therapists in office, but as you mentioned, COVID helped
us expand into the telemedicine world, which has given us
so much more opportunity for growth. And uh, we're still
learning as we go along. And uh, it's it's definitely
(46:53):
advantageous for for people, especially those who don't have access
to transportation or who are caregivers and and need you know,
need to do therapy from the home and also just
to throw out their hybrid is there. So I do
have some people that alternate between coming in person and
doing telehealth. You know, if the car has a flat tire,
(47:17):
they no longer have to cancel. Oh, they just let
me know we're gonna do virtual today and we log on.
So you know, that's that's another added bonus. So now
we have for options for therapy in person in the
office exclusively telehealth and hybrid.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
So it's sad time, yes it is.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
And I'm thankful for virtual. My psychologist does virtual. Uh
he did during COVID and he continued, and I don't
blame him. Hey, you save on rent, you're staying.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
That's a big big expense that uh.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
You know, people save on when they when they you know,
don't have an office, if that's what they choose to do.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Uh, plus older, you know, so I understand that.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Well, thank you so much Tammy Smith for coming on today.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
I'd love to have you on again, folks.
Speaker 1 (48:11):
All the information about Tammy Smith will be in the
block that Genie White is a station manager, writes and
produces the show. I would definitely encourage if you were
in New Jersey and you're looking for someone, check out
Tammy Smith. Go on her website, look at her social pages,
(48:33):
and you know, see if Timmy will be a fit.
Speaker 2 (48:38):
And I also.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Want to encourage caregiversgivers, if you're hearing this, you're in
New Jersey, you can't do it on your own.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
It's okay to go for help. It's okay to struggle.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
I needed counseling midway in that journey because I thought
I had to be superwoman. You don't have to be superwoman.
You don't have to be superman or whatever your gender
is or however you identify. It's okay to say I
need support and to talk to someone.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
And if you're grieving and you.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
Need support, that's okay too. Grieving is forever. It just changes,
but it's with you forever. And we'll always love and.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
Miss Erra, loved one.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Don't let anyone tell you anything different. Love does not end,
it continues on. And I also wanted to thank Lili Caldwell,
who's CEO of Fashionable Talk Radio makes this possible. I
want to thank you the listeners, thank you for listening, subscribing,
and if you don't ready to do so Channing with
Bettius for free on iHeart, Amazon Music, Spotify, and Speaker,
(49:50):
to name just a few, and you can follow me
on Facebook. That's Ce Worzel w r z e L.
And as I always say at the end of my show, Oh,
before I say that, I want to say, Andrea Passed
for arranging this interview. Andrea Passes, owner of Andrea Passed
public Relations. So thank you, Andrea. So glad I had
(50:13):
the opportunity to talk to Tammy Smith. And as I
always say at the end of my show, in the
world where you could be anything, please be kind and
shine your life bright because we need it now more
than ever before. And so we chat again. This is
Betsy Wurzel. You're a host of Chatting with Betsy on
(50:34):
Passion World Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global Media
Network LC.
Speaker 2 (50:40):
Bye bye now
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