October 23, 2025 • 57 mins
Think healing from childhood trauma is impossible? Betsy Wurzel and Steven Eichenblatt prove it’s not—through truth, courage, and forgiveness.
In this heartfelt interview, Betsy Wurzel speaks with Steven Eichenblatt, author of Pretend They Are Dead: A Father’s Search for the Truth, about transforming trauma into triumph through courage, forgiveness, and self-awareness. Steven’s memoir became a #1 Amazon bestseller in both New Releases: Dysfunctional Families and Lawyer & Judge Biographies, sharing a raw look into emotional pain and resilience.
Steven revealed the title’s chilling origin—advice once given to his biological father, Allen Nestlé, by a psychiatrist. He recounted abandonment, emotional hardship, and years of silence that shaped his understanding of survival. Together, Betsy and Steven explored how unresolved childhood wounds can shadow adulthood and limit our ability to connect. They discussed how the 1960s and 1970s often silenced abuse survivors, especially women who felt pressured to endure harmful behavior. Steven emphasized choosing not to remain a victim but to reclaim one’s story and live victoriously.
One haunting revelation came when Steven described witnessing a fatal crash at sixteen—only to learn decades later that the victim was his father. Writing Pretend They Are Dead forced him to confront buried memories yet ultimately freed him to move forward with compassion and strength. Betsy praised the memoir as raw, emotional, and deeply inspiring. “This was a page-turner,” she shared. “I laughed, I cried, and I wanted to hug young Steven.”
🎧 Listen now as Betsy Wurzel and Steven Eichenblatt share how facing pain with honesty and support can lead to healing and hope.
About the Author: Steven Eichenblatt is a graduate of Florida State University and the University of Florida College of Law. A practicing attorney and father of five, he has spent more than 30 years advocating for children as a pro bono guardian ad litem and representing families of 9/11 first responders.
👉 Betsy thanks Steven Eichenblatt for sharing his extraordinary story of courage and compassion. 💡 At Passionate World Talk Radio, we believe real conversations matter.
📌 Subscribe and follow so you never miss an inspiring new episode!
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
🎙 Passionate World Talk Radio Network LLC — Where real conversations matter.
In this heartfelt interview, Betsy Wurzel speaks with Steven Eichenblatt, author of Pretend They Are Dead: A Father’s Search for the Truth, about transforming trauma into triumph through courage, forgiveness, and self-awareness. Steven’s memoir became a #1 Amazon bestseller in both New Releases: Dysfunctional Families and Lawyer & Judge Biographies, sharing a raw look into emotional pain and resilience.
Steven revealed the title’s chilling origin—advice once given to his biological father, Allen Nestlé, by a psychiatrist. He recounted abandonment, emotional hardship, and years of silence that shaped his understanding of survival. Together, Betsy and Steven explored how unresolved childhood wounds can shadow adulthood and limit our ability to connect. They discussed how the 1960s and 1970s often silenced abuse survivors, especially women who felt pressured to endure harmful behavior. Steven emphasized choosing not to remain a victim but to reclaim one’s story and live victoriously.
One haunting revelation came when Steven described witnessing a fatal crash at sixteen—only to learn decades later that the victim was his father. Writing Pretend They Are Dead forced him to confront buried memories yet ultimately freed him to move forward with compassion and strength. Betsy praised the memoir as raw, emotional, and deeply inspiring. “This was a page-turner,” she shared. “I laughed, I cried, and I wanted to hug young Steven.”
🎧 Listen now as Betsy Wurzel and Steven Eichenblatt share how facing pain with honesty and support can lead to healing and hope.
About the Author: Steven Eichenblatt is a graduate of Florida State University and the University of Florida College of Law. A practicing attorney and father of five, he has spent more than 30 years advocating for children as a pro bono guardian ad litem and representing families of 9/11 first responders.
👉 Betsy thanks Steven Eichenblatt for sharing his extraordinary story of courage and compassion. 💡 At Passionate World Talk Radio, we believe real conversations matter.
📌 Subscribe and follow so you never miss an inspiring new episode!
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
🎙 Passionate World Talk Radio Network LLC — Where real conversations matter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, if you want, this is Betsy worth All, your
host of Chatting with Betsy. I'm passed your World Talk
Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC, and
where much is to educate and lighten and entertain. The
views of the guest may not represent those of the
host of the station. Folks, I am so excited about
(00:22):
my guest today, and I'm going to tell you about
my guests. And I got to tell you something right now.
You want to hear my guests today. This book Pretend
They Are Dead A Father Search for the Truth is
a page turner, is heart touching, it is powerful, and
(00:43):
I highly recommend everyone to read it with me. Today
is Stephen Aikeenbot, who is a graduate of Florida State
University and the University of Florida College of Law, A
practicing attorney and father of five. He has spent over
thirty years advocating for children as a pro bono guardian
(01:05):
at Leedham and representing families the first responders killed on
nine to eleven as a founding partner at Page and
I Can Black. He has received the multiple awards for
legal excellence and community work supporting children. He lives with
his wife in Orlando, Florida, and I want to welcome you, Stephen.
(01:26):
I can black to chatty with Betsy.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Sorry, my last name is so challenging. No, Benky, thank
you very much for having me. I'm excited to talk
with you. It's definitely known. You're a Jersey girl on
Jersey my van, so excited to be there.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Is that true, Steven? And you can't take the jersey
out of the boy. I a girl.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Definitely, you definitely can. And being from Wayne and living
in Orlando, I've run into two or three people from Wayne,
New Jersey and it's like it's like you have this cone,
so you have this connection. You know, they're like your
brothers because they're from Wayne. So no, you can't take
the jersey out of me, and.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I don't want to. That's great. I have to tell you,
I really I want to thank you first of all
for coming to my show, uh that you can be
talking about your your book, for writing your book which
is so hard touching. It's such a story of great
(02:32):
resilience and it brought back memories of my own childhood
and I had to confront it. So I thank you
for that, Steven. I really had to confront my past,
and reading your book, I realized I didn't fully confront it.
(02:52):
So I want to thank you for that. And I
want to thank you for all the work that you
do for children and representing the families of nine to eleven.
I want to thank you for that too. It's important.
It's important to have someone like you, and you were like,
(03:15):
I don't know if you know it, but you're shining
light to the world, and I'm gonna welcome. I'm going
to ask you, uh, what motivated you to write this book?
And congratulations because it is your first book, folks, it's
his first book. And I got to mention, I haven't
written down can you remountain handwriting? You made it to
(03:35):
Amazon best selling list number one, Yes, in two different areas.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Nine. Well, I've been I've been fortunate because I've I've
had some really good opportunities to talk to people in
market and the market and the more people seem seem
to like it. So once you get past that little
friend group, it seems to have taken on a life
of its own. And you know, I'm enjoying talking about
(04:03):
the book. Like I said before we started out, it's
too bad I have to work as a lawyer for
a living because all time writer. But I answer your
question what motivated me is I gone through a difficult
period where I went through a divorce, had a lot
of time on my hands, and as you know from
(04:23):
reading the book, and I don't know how much I
should talk about or give away things. My biological father
left me with thousands of pages of writings and I
during that divorce period, I decided to start to read it,
read it because I didn't know him. So I started
to go through it. And I also wanted it. You know,
(04:44):
it's kind of therapeutic for me to sit down and
start writing. And I didn't know it was going to
be a book until I was like, you know, probably
a couple of months into the process, and I said,
you know, I'm going to go to a workshop and
I want to write a book, and I want to
help people with my book.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
But tell my story, Oh, you definitely have. There is
just a lot to unpack about your your book. And
I have to tell you that my heart. When I
was reading your book, I cried, I laughed. I cried
because there's you know, laughable moments in your book, and
(05:21):
I just you know what I wanted to do because
I'm the person I am. I wanted to hug little Stephen.
I just wanted to hug you as a child and
tell you that you're precious and you're loved. And I
can't even imagine that. You know your father, your biological father, Ellen, Uh,
(05:44):
that's name Nestley. Then you pronounce your nest Ale? Okay,
I was I'm sure that's all. Okay, Ellen, I'm terrible news.
That's all. You know, you had your family and your dad,
your biological dad left you. Dad is devastating, and I'll
(06:07):
show you asked yourself why.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
And you know, and how as a child can you
not take that personally? That's how to be tough. That's
tough to deal with.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Well, you know a lot of people have asked me
about about that, like how I felt as a child
when all this this stuff happened a lot of chaos,
and you know, it's I compare. It sounds crazy to
to like these sons and daughters of kings and queens
or presidents that are just they're born and so they
accept the life that they're given, which is a crazy
(06:45):
life with all these things. But when you're born into
a certain family. That's the only family you know, and
you kind of get used to accepting chaos, like you
don't even realize this is you realize it's bad. You
know it's bad, but but you're just it's just the
standard in my household so intense. It was hard for
(07:07):
me to figure out and figure out what I was feeling.
You know, I just here, It's hard. It was really
hard to unpacked, you know, my my feelings back then.
I still still have trouble sometimes trying. I'm really when
you when you go back to why I wrote the books,
like just trying to find my feelings, trying to trying
to feel something. You know, I'd never liked to be hugged.
(07:29):
My wife always gives you a hard time about that.
My friends, he's not Steve's by a huger. He doesn't
like to be touched. And you know it was part
of the trauma. That's part of the trauma thing.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
But but yeah, yeah, I really it really it really
day to day in my house is as I described
in the book, was was you just never knew what
was going to hit you.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But something was.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That Yeah, it was with a lot of trauma and
a lot of trauma they say, the inter generational passed on.
What is sound interesting about your dad, your biological dad,
is that it's had to be mind blowing for you
because later on he remarried and had another family. Yes,
(08:21):
and that had to be shocking. And reading about your dad,
Stephen and how you know he'd like to work with animals,
your mom said, oh, your dad's more comfortable with animals,
to work with animals. Do you think your dad Alan
had some kind of neurodivergent thing going on, because a
(08:44):
lot of times people like to work with you know,
I don't like people they prefer to work with animals.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
I think absolutely had multiple personality disorders of different types
going on. And when when I met him, when I
reconnected with him and espurse, he's been in actually been
through a lot of things, but he's like a person.
You know, back then you didn't hear about all these
diagnoses that you hear about today. So definitely on the
(09:19):
spectrum of the lack of a better term, that's definitely
very socially awkward, very socially and uh didn't look you
in the eye, mumbled when he talked, really hard to
understand him. And I know that he got progressively worse,
but yeah, he had. He had a lot going on
(09:39):
in that rate of visions.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yes, yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was reading
the book because I'm in the neurodivergent community. I saw
the kinds of disability and I've interviewed Ah I feel
about you know, Aspergers, and you know right up about it,
and this is exactly what wass thinking. Plus your dad
was than the war, right, so he could have had
(10:02):
post traumatic from World War Two. I know my dad did.
I know my my mother's brother did. And I'm a
big mental health advocate, Steven, And what I appreciate about
your book is that you are very honest, you don't
sugarcoat and and how to be painful for you in
(10:27):
a way to go back and relive these memories. Did
you find it both painful and cathartic?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah? I did, I did. I found it it was shocking.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
So wherever that falls that word falls in the in
the spectrum of things, I mean some of this, some
of his writing going through learning things about my own
life and learning everything about his and the way he
wrote it was it was cathartic.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
It was he himself had been and his father had
left him. His biological father had left him when he
was twelve or thirteen. And my Papa, Charlie, who I
loved dearly, was the man who took over. And he
was a violent person himself, the World War Two hero
(11:19):
bus driver. He was great with me. One thing I
want to say too, is that when you know when
divorces happened, I've been through it on both sides, and
I've helped some families as a lawyer too, doing during divorces,
you forget about the grandparents, you know, because not only
did I lose my father when he walked away, I
(11:40):
lost my grandparents who loved me, you know who. They
definitely loved me, and my uncle like that whole collateral family.
All of a sudden, everybody's gone and you're just You're
just a kid. But so there were definitely moments as
I was writing this book where I felt sad and angry.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, yeah, I can understand that because when I can't journal,
you know a lot of people say journal. I eve
when I was going through a tough time when my
mother in law had Alzheimer's and my husband I weren't
getting along, and I journaled and I went back and
(12:24):
read it, I was mad. I would get the home
mad all over again, and I said, I can't look
at this. I got to throw it out. If you
have an interesting title of your book, but Ken, they
are dead, I know how you came up with the title.
Can you tell the audience how you came up with
(12:46):
that title, because it's very eye catching.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah. Thanks. After debating and deliberating with my family about titles,
because I tried to bring my family and some of
my kids into the decision making of the book. I
wanted them to be part of it so that when
it came out they were supportive and not you know,
running away and thinking there was all this horrible stuff
(13:12):
because it's not. But the title came from years after
my father, my biological father, died, and you know I
learned during the course of the book that he is
a writer. Well I learned that at his funeral, and
I got all these materials, thousands of pages and materials
that he had written in articles and everything else. But
(13:35):
the one thing I did not get was a story
that he had written back in the nineteen seventies that
was published in the National magazine. And that story was
called Hello Yellow And the reason I didn't get it
is because my cousin, who was also a writer, was
he didn't think my father wanted us me to see it.
(13:58):
In fact, there's a note and I think there's a
picture of it in the book where my father, my
biological father wrote, you know, I might you know, this
would be bad if my ex kids ever see it.
And you know the article and you know, I'm reading
an article that he wrote in nineteen seventy and I'm
reading it in two thoy fifteen. But he writes about
(14:20):
the last night that he's spent with us and his
rationalization for giving us up. I mean, I didn't know
he was leaving. He just dropped us off and is God.
But he had gotten advice from a psychiatrist talking about
mental health that the best thing for him is just pretend,
pretend we're dead. And that's what he did. So that's
(14:42):
where the title came from, its pretend they are dead.
And you know, I turned out it pretty much ruined
his life. I mean I lived, I lived probably a
mile from his veterinary office. I lived within a couple
of miles of where he moved. And and I can't
even imagine I'm a father of five kids, not seeing
(15:03):
my kids, were contacting them every day. But it's hard.
It's hard. But for him to drop us off and
and and not come back was I don't I can't
even understand it.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, that is something. And when I received
a press release, I saw I had to read this book.
I've got to have a copy of this book. And uh,
it is just well. I think it will help so
many people, Stephen, I really do. And you know, we
(15:41):
want to do better as parents with our children. And
I know in my own case, you know, my parents
were too busy for me. Even when my mom near
the end of her life in a nursing home nursing
assisted living, still too busy. She could be bothered talking
(16:02):
to me. And I wanted a close relationship with my son.
I wanted him to know that he could come to
me at any time about anything. And I think we
tried to do better, as you know for the next
you're about my age, Stephen, And back then, people didn't
(16:24):
talk about what was going on in their home. They
didn't talk about abuse. They just did not. Boys were
taught and even girls you don't cry. It's weakness. I
was told that as a young girl uh, you know,
you don't, as my mother would say, are your durty
laundery out? So you had all this going on in
(16:50):
your life and you couldn't talk to anyone about it.
That's why my heart, I'm an EmPATH, That's why my
heart just went out to you, and I was like, oh,
my goodness, and how wonderful that you help people. And
I think it's you know, they say that hurt people
hurt people, but I think also that people who have
(17:11):
been hurt also like to help people. You have people
who are very into that impacts, are very compassionate and
help people. Also, there's that side of it, but.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Absolutely, you know, and you know, one thing I was
blessed with is when I my main practice now is
is personal injury. And you know, so I have a
lot of people that come to me that well, are
are severely injured, gone through some kind of tragic situation.
And and then you know a lot of blue collar
folks and I really, I really know because of the
(17:49):
way I was raised, I know a chaos is So
sometimes clients think, oh, he's a lawyer, so he must
have been raised rich and his life is probably easy.
And I'm I've been able over the years to really
connect with my clients because I've I have done, I have,
I have been there to the bottom. You know, I
feel like I can make to almost everybody. And and
(18:13):
I think that's I think it was kind of like
a gift because my my partner used to say, gosh,
you know, your stories are so great, You're so interesting.
And my family was all dull because we stayed together
and nothing bad ever happened. And uh so so so
so the tools I got from growing up in that
(18:34):
environment have definitely helped me as as a lawyer. One
thing I really wanted to share with you. Let see
because of your earlier your note and and and I
know you read the book as my my wife sent
this book. Sent my book to a friend of hers
who's a lawyer in Boone, North Carolina. And she apparently
(18:57):
she she loved so much. She sent it of this
book club and they've invited me to speak at some point.
But she, yeah, sent me, she sent me. Apparently she
sent this to to a lawyer. This is not a
person I know, but he's writing this note to her
to this other Andrew is their names, but he writes, Andrew,
(19:19):
I am over halfway through pretend they are dead. He
reminds me of Oftener, the way he traverses time and changes
the point of view of his character based on his age.
I channeled him in court this morning when I settled
a custody case. He helped me empathize with the kid
involved in the custody case, and I was able to
give my clients some advice that I never would have
(19:40):
thought of except for the book. Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Whoa, oh, that is real. That's why Steve and I
had a show because I want people to share their stories.
When we share their stories, we help other people. You know.
Some people think, oh, well, you know you're sharing your
You know, I don't share my experiences I went through
for sympathy. I watch people to learn from my mistakes
(20:08):
so hopefully they don't make them, but to learn from them.
And sometimes we go through awful things in life and
we ask ourselves, well, why did we go through that?
And then there's a bigger picture because it made you
a you know, we have a choice. We could take
what we went through and either be victims or we
could be victorious. And you became victorious, Stephen. And this
(20:31):
is a story that if anyone's listening has a book club,
you need to get Stevens in your book club and
talk about this book. But tend they are dead because
you will learn so many lessons. You grew up. You
had to grow up fast in a way. And I
(20:52):
just want to bring this up. When you were sixteen
years old, you were working at a tennis court, and
tell us what happened. You heard a crash.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I was working at the tennis Clubs of July Sports
nineteen seventy five. Some things you don't get, and this
the New Jersey. I was the only only person there,
which I still to this day, it just seems like
that that was very strange because it's Courts of July
and I'm out. I was the maintenance guy at the
tennis club. I ride my bike there and sweep the
(21:25):
courts and roll them their play courts in New Jersey.
And as I was doing it on that day, I
was near the one of the end courts, which is
very close to the Highway two ways, a two lane road,
windy road, typical Jersey, you know, through the woods kind
of road. I hear this noise, I hear this incredible crash,
(21:47):
and I look up at a car has hit a
telephone pole, probably fifty seeds from where I was standing,
something like that. I mean, I've never ever seen anything
like that. I mean, people, who's who's to see track
you need or see accidents. I mean it's a even
if you're not in the car, but you're just watching it,
Your your body goes into a different type of modes,
you know, And the the adrenaline hit me and I
(22:14):
ran over. A guy had hit the windshield. His head
was basically resting, you know, through the windshields, and I
ran to make a telephone call, called the police. Back
then there's no nine one one, so he called the operator.
Uh and then and then you know, people started coming
and I ran back over over there and they had
him on the ground and he was hurt very badly
(22:38):
and his eye was kind of cutting the half and
all these things and the police officer and I was
just standing there as you know, I had my shwind
Varsity ten steeds, which I was very proud of. It
was against the walls, against the tree. I remember every
detail of this. And I wound up. So I stood there,
I started to leave, and I felt this inner jeeves.
(23:00):
I felt this It's like when you walk into some
rooms you can feel energy in the room, or you
can sometimes feel when somebody's looking at you, he's just
gonna feel something. And I felt that and I looked
up and this guy was just he was he was
conscious man, and he was staring at me through his
one good eye because his other eye, the eye lid
had been cutting half and all that. And he didn't
(23:21):
say anything, and I just felt, I felt this really
strange sensation. And as I so, I turned around, as
I was walking away, the police officer pulled out his
wallet and said, does anybody know this person? And of
course it was my biological father. And I didn't say
and I never told it. I got on my bike,
(23:43):
I drove back home, and I did not tell anybody.
I was there for forty years.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Now. That was trauma right there. That was traumatic. Yeah,
and carrying that secret for all those years until you
finally found out why your father was over there. But
I don't want to give it away. You have to
(24:10):
read the book, folks, really is I'm I think I
might have ADHD myself. I go bouncing around. I talked
to people on interview.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
You know, you're something I know I can, I can
talk to it. Let me ask let me ask you
your opinion on this, because because people, you know, say
all that had to be horrible, and of course it
was horrible. The my biological father almost died in front
of me, in fact that he is very close to
that when I'm in the hospital. But but you know,
I still I got on my bike, I rode away,
(24:42):
and I just like stored it away like I didn't.
It's not like I broke down tying or felt that
needul to tell anybody. I was just so traumatized by
life I think that I had I didn't feel things,
you know, and as somebody who's I know, I was
involved in the medical and mean, is that like a
typical I mean, I wish I could say, oh my gosh,
I couldn't sleep for months and it was horrible when
(25:04):
I had these dreams. But I just put it away
and didn't think about it.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
You know what, David, I'm not put a disclaimer. I'm
not a psychologist. I can only tell you what I think.
I think that you are so hurt and traumatized from
childhood up and you were sixteen at this time, that
you had to in order to protect yourself and to survive,
you had to shut people off. You had to shut
(25:32):
off your feelings to survive. And when that happens, and
I know this for my own life, I was never
physically abused. I was emotionally abused. That when we shut
people off because we don't want to feel, and yet
that kind of works in a reverse in a way.
(25:52):
Because we don't feel and we can't get close to people,
it's very hard to trust people. It's very hard to
be vulnerable with people and tell people how we feel
because we're afraid of getting hurt. We're afraid of them saying,
you know, man up, woman up, you know, their judgment
(26:17):
of us. That's what we're afraid of. And I always say,
the same wolves that protect us from people also prevent
the you know, good people from coming into our lives.
So it's a balance there. Excuse me. It's a fine
(26:37):
mind there, you know. And I related a lot to you.
And in reading your book, I thought of my own
father and Stephen. I I don't know why. I mean,
I know, like back in when you were growing up
and when your mom was growing up, you just made
excuses for people. You didn't leave your your husband, because
(27:02):
it wasn't socially acceptable at the time. You didn't talk
about abuse. I don't know how any mother can stand
there knowing that her child is being beaten. My dad
was beaten by his uncle. His mother knew it and
did nothing, didn't do anything. It was his father who
had woken up one time saw his brother hit my
(27:25):
father and was going to hit him, and he my
grandfather told his brother to ever touch Howard again or
I'll be you know, taking my that is my own
hands with you. And he never touched my father again.
And I said to my dad, well, why didn't you
tell your father? He said, I'm not a snitch, So
(27:48):
you know it's.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
A hard thing.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, I mean a frying pan would come out if
that was me.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah. No, I know. What's sort of like in that
when kids get bullied in school and I handle some
of those cases, you know, they're they don't want to
be seen. Of course, usually there's a weak kid and
they're getting bullied, but they don't want to tell anybody
because they don't want to they don't want to make
it worse, you know, and and they don't want to
be a snitch or whatever whatever it is. It's this
(28:20):
it's this code of honor. And I think you know,
the schools are learning how to handle that. But yeah,
there's no there's no doubt. I mean one thing, one
thing too that I feel is, I mean we had
you know, physical back in those days. Like you said,
we're about the same age. You know, I knew lots
of uh, I had friends or you know, you hear
(28:40):
about people. My father took a belt out like it
was kind of common. You know, it's pretty common for
right then, but funish you physically. I mean that was
not today you know they'd all be in jail. But
back then, y, yeah, there was, there was, There was
definitely uh, you know, there's definitely spanking and delts or
whatever it was. And you know that pain goes that
(29:02):
pain goes away, but the emotional pain, which you adanced
and which I finish, that never goes away. That's hard
to that's hard to get rid of.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Get rid Oh that's true. Yeah, I agree. I'm still
going to therapy. I'm not a share to say it,
you know, along with grieving and it's just you know,
it took me, Stephen, until I was sixty. I'll be
sixty eight. God, Willing in December. It took me to
(29:33):
the age of sixty to turn my script, to turn
my life around, that I am not the person that
I was told I was. And you know, it's when
you are so self conscious, like my dad. I'll just
(29:55):
say it. My dad told me I was ugly from birth.
He always said I was ugly. He said my sister
was fat. My sister told me one time, Betsy, I
always felt sorry for you because I was a fat one,
but you were the ugly one. And so when when
I went in my car, Steven wait before other people
going in their car to do videos, and I would
(30:17):
talk about Alzheimer's as my husband had hearly on set
and people, so I'll bet to your braves, I would
never ever would have had my face on camera. But
I had to put aside my feelings for a cause,
for what I believed in. And that's one thing you know.
(30:38):
You know my dad always told me, and he would
start fights and argue that you know, you stand up
for what you believe in. My mom was kind of like,
you know, be quiet, be a good girl, don't start
any ways. Well, I'm guessing my father's daughter because I
will cause a Sonami, if I have to to get
my you know, to get up my point across or
(31:02):
to get help right, you know. And so I want
to talk about Richard. Your mom met Richard about three
months after your biological dad Alan left and he went
on vacation with your grandparents and you came back and that,
(31:27):
oh my good. Yeah, unbelievable. I mean, just that's why
you've got to read this book.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I talked to my mother about this, you know. First, Yeah,
we go to my parents, take us on this Trimfors
urban village and never have been back there, but I'd
like to go back. But uh, and when we come back,
a whole new family has moved into our house, and
you know, and Richard's who's the pirate past master bully,
all those things, you know, uh, right from the beginning
(32:00):
post his rules, Richard ruled in the house and when
they were harsh and he enforced them. And I talked
to my mother about about why didn't tell us that
they're getting married? Why didn't you tell us? We didn't?
I mean, like we had met Richard and his kids.
He had four kids, So he shows up in our house,
(32:20):
the four kids. We had met them once or twice. Baby,
I'm not sure, you know, I don't remember exactly, but
I asked my mother, like, why didn't you tell us?
And she said, well, I was afraid of what your
father would do. I'm like, and I said, which father
of who are you afraid of? What my biological father
would do if he found out she was getting married?
(32:42):
And it didn't really make sense to me. But then,
how could you not tell your kids that you're getting
married and that this man is moving into your house
with these kids?
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Maybe, yeah, you will say that you look like the
Jewish Brady Bunch.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Hell, yeah, you know, the Brady Bins. And there was
a movie Yours Mine and hours and yes, yeah, they
remember that, remember, Yeah, so it was very important. Appearances
were very important, and yesus back then, yeah, exactly exactly.
I had to walk around like this model family, which
we were not the model family. And but we are
(33:25):
all together. You know. I don't talk much about my
brothers and sisters in the book, but but I can
say that, and one of my brothers is a very
difficult guy, but they've everybody had their own journeys and
they were all we're there's seven of us within five
years of each other and there even though we were
(33:46):
adopted together. Richard adopted me and so I had to
take his last name, and my mother adopted their kids.
So we were all adopted to be made as one family.
And I see them still as my brothers and sisters.
I don't distinguish blood or whatever. We went through it together.
I grew up with them from the time I was
very small, and so you know, I still I will
(34:08):
always consider that my brothers and sisters. And interestingly enough,
I got to call one of the first calls I
got after the book comes out, memoir you know your
pins and needles? What are people going to say? How
is my family going to react? Or you know, people
that you know you're you know. I tried to make
an accurate research. I did a lot of research. I
(34:29):
talked to a lot of people from New Jersey, people
I used to work for my father. I tried to
do everything I could to make sure that I wasn't
hallucinating and h and I wasn't. But one of the
first calls I got was from Richard's sister who was
my aunt and Arlene, and I was at my office
and the phone the receptions comes back and says and
(34:51):
says Steve, and Arlene is on the phone and that Yeah.
I'm like, man, Arlene, I mean, I haven't spoken with
this woman for forty five years since I was like
a kid, and she's got to be like the ninety
and this is Richard's sister. So I'm like, Okay, Well,
I wonder what she's gonna shay, because you know about
the book. And she got on the phone with me
(35:13):
and she said, Stephen, she said, I loved you when
you were a little boy. I always looked at you
as my nephew and I hated my brother every single
day he walked with her.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, So I mean I wasn't the book wasn't meant
to trash Richard. That's not the reason I wrote the book.
But it's sort of thing that, you know, there's validation that, Okay,
I wasn't making the stuff up.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, And you know I wrote I've heard from there's
a well known person doct Derka Bor Matt Tay, and
he said you could talk to each child and a
family and they all each have a different version of
their parents because the parents are different. With each child
out and reading the book, I mean, there's a lot
(36:03):
of cover here, I was wondering, what did your brothers
and sisters think about the book if they read it?
And what did your a mom, you know saying, was
she mortified? Because I know my mother would be mortified
if for a book that she was alive.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, well for the for the records, for the records.
Most of my brothers and sisters did not read the
book and refused to read the book, so they were
not supportive. I haven't talked to all of them because
some of them for a lot of different reasons. You know,
we're not that closed anymore. But uh my one couple
(36:44):
of my brothers, I asked if I could put their
pictures in the book. I said, listen, out of respect
for you, I'm going to ask you, and it's okay
if you say no, because I'm not going to put
anything in there about you unless you give me permission.
And so, you know, they weren't comfortable with their picture sures.
They weren't. They weren't comfortable with, uh, with any parts
(37:04):
of their stories because there's plenty of stories out there,
a lot more stories out there. So I was very
careful not to not to really make uh, not to
talk much about them, that's why I didn't develop a
much of as characters.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
My mother, my mother, this is uh this and listen,
I love my mother because she's my mother, right and
and she didn't she did not protect us and she
knows that. And you know, one of her proudest moments,
she tells me that was when I got in a.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Fight and I beat him up. And there's a whole
chapter about that.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
But but she so.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
So before I released the book, before I had it
finally published, I sent it to my twin sister, who
was very supportive, and she said, well, Mom's not gonna
like it. H I said, well, I know that, but
I'm gonna She has said that she supports my stories,
my story. She apologized what she did, and so she
supports my book. So she's been and I had sent
(38:04):
her chapters along the way anyway I send them. So
I sent. I said, I'm going to send her a
copy because before I published it, just to you know,
get it out of the way. And she called me,
after telling me for years that she supported my book,
she called me and said, Steven, if you publish this book,
I think I'll commit suicide. Your mind, I know, and right,
(38:29):
talk about drama. And I said, I said to her,
you see, mom, this is exactly why I wrote the book,
because the book is not about you, and you're making
an age. You know, this was my story that you
and I have spoken with the last ten years as
I was writing this. And then you know what, and
I give her total one hundred percent credit. And then
she realized she started realizing, you know what this isn't
(38:52):
you know? She's worried about what her friends are going
to say, Well, her friends in her ninety they're not
going to read the book, right, there's not and it's listen,
I want my book to sell millions of copies. I
would love nothing better to reach the universe and for
it to help as many people as it can. But
but the reality is, you know, there's she lives in Sarasota, Florida.
(39:13):
It's not uh. I don't think that there's gonna be
tons of people that she knows that I'll read it
and her name is not in there. But the one
thing she was really upset about, the most upset about,
and this you'll appreciate this, is she was upset because
she said, we did not have plastic on the furniture.
We weren't allowed to sit on the furniture in our house,
(39:34):
and there was classic on the furniture and so and
I make some jokes about it in the books, and
she said, we did not have plastic on the furniture.
That was for people from the Bronx. We didn't do that.
We're from Long Island. She was very upset about that,
because what are people gonna think that if they find
out I had plastic got my furniture, which everybody did
(39:55):
back the.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, al from the Brons, like, that's fine because my
grandparents are from the Bronx and they had plastic on
their furniture.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Lots of verse her back then, I will take that.
I will take that out if that's important to you.
And uh, but she's really she's really made a total
you know turn. She's been incredibly supportive. She's been very proud.
She said, I said nothing but nice things once she
got over the initial thing. And she's really tried to
(40:28):
to show that she loves me. And uh, and I
have told him she does not. I don't really write
much about her, but anybody who reads it will be questioning,
where was your mom when all this was going on?
Speaker 1 (40:44):
So well I'm gonna talk about Richard, the man that
your mom married, who was a monster. There's just no
other words for it. He was a monster right away.
He had rules. You couldn't be come in the front
of the house, you could only eat in certain places
at a certain time, and he wasn't afraid to use
(41:07):
his belt. And he was a bully and he was
not He was emotionally and physically abusive to you and
just a horrible human being. And I'm sorry that I
have to say that, but it's what I you know,
see him as from the book. What was his do
(41:31):
you know his background?
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Like?
Speaker 1 (41:33):
What was his environment that he was so horrible? I
mean even his own sistendent like him, did he have
I mean not, I've never excuse anyone's behavior, but was
he abused as a child?
Speaker 2 (41:48):
You know, he never spoke about his childhood ever, never
other than a telus he played football, but he never
told us. He never. I never meant about his father.
I didn't know what he did. I was told his
father was in a nursing home. When my aunt called
me as I just mentioned his sister, she said, she said,
(42:09):
I can tell you lots of stories about about your
father about Richard uh, And she said, and I know
he never talked about his childhood. But it was a
tough one. It was a really tough one. And you know,
he was poor. He grew up poor and his mother
was working in a manufacturing plant. But I don't know
anything about how he was or what he what he did,
he did not. You know, what happened is our whole
(42:33):
past got everything got white washed. And we lived in
that house and we didn't talk about my biological father.
We didn't talk about the biological mother. On the other side,
we didn't and he never talked about those things. And
I never really tried to We all tried to avoid him.
So he's just a mean guy. I mean, you know,
there's yeah, there's bullies, but he was intimidating. He had
(42:57):
a good number of friends because he was funny at
other people's expenses. You know, he's uh. He routinely got
in fights and arguments, you know, routinely, which is hard
to take. But there was definitely that, you know, you
gotta be tough, you got to stand up for things.
I mean, there was you know, he had a hard
work ethic and he forced us to work, which was
(43:19):
which was good, you know, I think there's not enough
of that. There were, you know, good good things, but
the rules were terrible and and we're sort of treated
like a dog and a which is ironically is my
biologic profile as a veterinarian. But he's just an angry guy.
He's just an angry guy.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, And like you want your and reading the book,
I was thinking what was richard childhood? Like, you know,
was his parents? And then I was thinking this, it
was his parents Holocaust survivors, and you know what was
(44:00):
you know, what did he go through? He had to
go through something to be that mean and that much
of a bully. You know, you're talking about hurt people,
hurt people. I think that's an example right there. My
heart went out to you and your siblings because when
(44:22):
your mom married Richard, and Richard's children just was their
mother and they didn't have any pictures, They couldn't talk
about their mother. They weren't allowed to grieve, and that
is a terrible, terrible thing. But back then that's what
(44:43):
they did. I mean, you did not talk about the dead. Now,
I don't know, Stephen and dadd is a cultural Jewish
thing because I'm Jewish and I wasn't allowed to talk
about or ask about relatives that were dead. I wanted
to to know about my relatives. So I don't know.
I mean, my father would say, let him rest in peace.
(45:05):
We don't talk about them, So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Sounds a little that sounds a little familiar. I don't
think that was the reason, but that sounds that sounds
a little bit familiar. I mean, I think it was
just more like we are one family, united, and we're
putting their past behind us. And and you're right, the
kids they didn't breathe the death of their mother at all,
and they were at all nothing. And one another interesting
(45:32):
thing is I spoke with a former employee of my
fathers who worked in the veterinary, you know, the veterinary office,
and she told me that at some point she had
babysat for us. One time she said, I couldn't babysit
for for you because for you guys, because Richard was
just too mean. And he told me I was free
(45:55):
to use the belt on you if I needed to.
I mean, it's just a she was a teenage girl,
and and she said, and I just felt so bad
for your brother Mark, who had some clearly had some
of his own problems, and he was clearly desperately needing help,
and she said, and it was just sad to be around,
(46:15):
So she shows she didn't babysit for us. She also,
by the way, is a woman who drove my biological
father to the tennis court to nail those letters into
the telephone pole, which is another crazy story in the book.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah that is really I mean your book, and I
didn't n cover a lot, folks, because there's just so
much to unpack here. And you, you know, Richarded and
sold you're moving too Florida your senior year of high school.
I mean, how devastating is that of itself? And you
mentioned your brother Mark, and I remember reading that his
(46:53):
hand or arm was fractured. Yes, Like, how come it
was a report? Well maybe in fact, then they didn't
report to child services, like none of us was reported.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I was no, no, yeah, none of it was reported.
And yeah, no I don't, I don't. My mother told
me one time. She she, uh, the two of my
brothers were fighting in a huge fight. Mark was one
of them, and she called the police and left the
house and just left them because I couldn't stand it. Anymore.
(47:28):
Uh so, Yeah, it was you know back then that
you didn't really think about that and she wouldn't have
done it anyway.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
True.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Uh but you know it's just it was just like
another day in the in in our lives. And I
got it. I gotta tell you to the the the
thing about the letters on the telephone poll and that
story is, like I said, is in the book and crazy.
But actually got this is I actually received uh my messenger.
(47:57):
A woman read my book and she loved it so much.
Is she went to the tennis court. She lives in
New Jersey, went to this Wayne Racket club and she
took a picture of my book with her standing in
front of the side and she sent it to me.
And I was like one of the nicest things I'd
ever heard of. It was such a nice thing to do.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, that is the incredible. Richard. You're not Richard. I'm sorry,
he's Stephen. I'm talking about Richard. I rich you on
my head, Stephen, your book. I just had this feeling
it's going to reach so many people. You are going
to help so many people by this book. And I
(48:38):
really hope the people that are listening. If you were
in a book Club to get in touch with Stephen
because this book needs to be read. I feel that
your book should be read by people that deal with children,
the people who have gone through a rough childhood to
(49:00):
read your book. I feel like everyone should read your
book and be deeply touched. I know you want the
Israel and what they ask you, what was it like
to work on a kabbutz? Because that sounded interesting. I
always wanted to do that but never did.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Yeah, great experience, but I would love you to come back, Richard.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
I'll go ahead. Sure, I know, Richard, I called you
Richard again, Steven, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
That's what I got it, I understand. Yeah, no, that
that's kind of saved my saved my life going to
Israel and trying and trying to come to grips with
who I was and and what I needed to do
in my life because I'd hit kind of a low
spot and you know, getting myself together, uh and doing
a lot of reflection. And now the Israel experience was incredible.
(49:51):
I loved every second of it. And and I you know,
I wanted my kids to go on birthright. They had
that birth right travel thing. But with everything that's happening
over there. It's a little dangerous now, but you're still
in touch with still in touch with people that I
met on the Kibootz and the kibitz I had a
(50:11):
lot of survivors on it, and h and the pork Factory.
But uh, you know, there's there's no That was a
great experience, and I'll probably write about that more and
write about some of my college years more at some point.
But uh, you know, it's it's when you when you
(50:32):
Some people love true crime. It's interesting. I understand it.
I understand why I like watching criminal trials. It wasn't
I'm not a criminal lawyer, but uh but you always
hear this, this one that when it comes to the
sentencing part, you always one of the defenses they always
try to they use, try to minimize the sentence is uh, oh, well,
he was abandoned as a child. You know, this kid
(50:54):
was abandoned. That's the reason why he killed, you know,
horribly killed by people or or this or stole that.
And you said this earlier, and this is in my book.
But you know, you can choose to be a victim.
You can choose to use your your childhood or somebody
you know, beating you up, or or being abandoned by
your mother, by your father, by whomever. You can use
(51:15):
that as an excuse, but it's not going to help
you get anywhere in life. You know, you have to
get out of the victim mode and go, as you said,
for victory. That's what you really have to do, because
no one's gonna do it for you. That's why I
figured out it's real. You know, self help means you
got to help yourself. No one is gonna you know,
at the end of the day, it's you that's got
to do it. And that's what I learned to do.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
That is very, very, very true, Steven. I would love
to have you come back because I didn't. I didn't.
I feel like I can barely sketched the surface. There's
so much to unpacked with your your story, with your book,
you know, becoming a lawyer. So I'd love for you
to come back sometime next year and discuss more about
(52:02):
your your book, Pretend They Are Dead, a Father Search
for the Truth. Where can people purchase the book.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Steven, Well, they can purchase it. They can purchase it
on Amazon, and I also have a website which is
stevenscottikenblack dot com. But pretend they're bad dead is a
little easier to remember. So you can get on Amazon,
you can get it. You can get it, you know,
through my through my website, and uh, there's also an
(52:32):
audible version that that I did and that that was
a great experience of itself. So but you know, yeah,
I would love to come back. I'd love to help
anybody out there that needs help or or just wants
a neutral person to bounce a legal issue. Regarding kids,
I really, I really really have a heart for these
(52:55):
kids that get stuck in the middle of divorce and
the parents put themselves first and that's not a good strategy.
But anyway, I'm I'm around. You can track you down
and I really appreciate your kind words and having on you.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Oh you are welcome is my pleasure, and they could
connect with you on your website, is that correct, Stephen?
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (53:20):
Great? Great? I thank you again for writing this book.
Congratulations first time book. You do take you after your
biological dad because he was a writer, so it must
be an hereditary and I just really admire you for
(53:45):
writing such a raw, powerful book. But it really touches
the soul matter of fact, I was streaming about the book.
What I was going to say. I was having dreams
about you in this book. And it's a really powerful book, folks.
(54:06):
I highly recommend reading it. You know, reading a book
and change your life. And it has changed people's lives,
and I highly recommend reading this book. I think it
will change people of lies, pretend they are dead. A
father's search for the truth. Steve and Scott, I try
to say your nie correctly. I can glad, I can glad.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Out there that if you buy it, you know, please
take the time to do a review. I'm a new author,
so trying to spread the word.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Well, Steve, I'm definitely going to post about your book
on my page, my Facebook page, and on my LinkedIn
page because this is a book that should be read
and especially social workers. I mean just really, any wine
if you're going through a rough childhood, if you had
a childhood, read this book.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
And I really say bravo to you, Stephen. From not
choosing victimhoods, you became victorious. You're helping people, You're changing lives.
You are a shining light and we need more of
you in the world. And I thank you again. Excuse me.
(55:25):
Sure you're welcome, folks. She created all about Stephen Scott
Regan blot in the blog that Genie White, who's the
station manager, writes, all the information will be there. And
I thank Gennie for what she does. And thank you
Linland Coldwell, CEO of Pasture World Talk Gradom Network, for
(55:48):
making this so all possible. I want to think let's
a warrant of a let's a warrant PR for arranging
this interview, and thank you for listening and subscribing. Share
this show. I think I don't think I know that
this book will help someone many people, so please share
the show. I'm here to help you. Steven is here
(56:10):
to help you. My show isn't just a podcast, It's
a resource Hasha World Talk Radio Network isn't just the
regular internet station is a resource center. We're here to
help you. And that's what my show is about. It's
about helping people. And if you want to follow me,
I'm on Facebook. That's the e worzel w or z
(56:31):
e l And as I always say at the end
of my show, in a world where you could be anything,
please be kind and shine You're life right because we
need it now. More than ever before, And I thank
you all for listening. This is oh before I forget.
You could also subscribe for free on Spotify, Spreaker, and
(56:56):
Amazon Music. It's like can find Johny? Look that this
is Betsy? Where is all your host of Johnny with Betsy?
I'm pastor Roll Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global
Media Network LLC. Bye bye now
Hello, if you want, this is Betsy worth All, your
host of Chatting with Betsy. I'm passed your World Talk
Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC, and
where much is to educate and lighten and entertain. The
views of the guest may not represent those of the
host of the station. Folks, I am so excited about
(00:22):
my guest today, and I'm going to tell you about
my guests. And I got to tell you something right now.
You want to hear my guests today. This book Pretend
They Are Dead A Father Search for the Truth is
a page turner, is heart touching, it is powerful, and
(00:43):
I highly recommend everyone to read it with me. Today
is Stephen Aikeenbot, who is a graduate of Florida State
University and the University of Florida College of Law, A
practicing attorney and father of five. He has spent over
thirty years advocating for children as a pro bono guardian
(01:05):
at Leedham and representing families the first responders killed on
nine to eleven as a founding partner at Page and
I Can Black. He has received the multiple awards for
legal excellence and community work supporting children. He lives with
his wife in Orlando, Florida, and I want to welcome you, Stephen.
(01:26):
I can black to chatty with Betsy.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Sorry, my last name is so challenging. No, Benky, thank
you very much for having me. I'm excited to talk
with you. It's definitely known. You're a Jersey girl on
Jersey my van, so excited to be there.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Is that true, Steven? And you can't take the jersey
out of the boy. I a girl.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Definitely, you definitely can. And being from Wayne and living
in Orlando, I've run into two or three people from Wayne,
New Jersey and it's like it's like you have this cone,
so you have this connection. You know, they're like your
brothers because they're from Wayne. So no, you can't take
the jersey out of me, and.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
I don't want to. That's great. I have to tell you,
I really I want to thank you first of all
for coming to my show, uh that you can be
talking about your your book, for writing your book which
is so hard touching. It's such a story of great
(02:32):
resilience and it brought back memories of my own childhood
and I had to confront it. So I thank you
for that, Steven. I really had to confront my past,
and reading your book, I realized I didn't fully confront it.
(02:52):
So I want to thank you for that. And I
want to thank you for all the work that you
do for children and representing the families of nine to eleven.
I want to thank you for that too. It's important.
It's important to have someone like you, and you were like,
(03:15):
I don't know if you know it, but you're shining
light to the world, and I'm gonna welcome. I'm going
to ask you, uh, what motivated you to write this book?
And congratulations because it is your first book, folks, it's
his first book. And I got to mention, I haven't
written down can you remountain handwriting? You made it to
(03:35):
Amazon best selling list number one, Yes, in two different areas.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Nine. Well, I've been I've been fortunate because I've I've
had some really good opportunities to talk to people in
market and the market and the more people seem seem
to like it. So once you get past that little
friend group, it seems to have taken on a life
of its own. And you know, I'm enjoying talking about
(04:03):
the book. Like I said before we started out, it's
too bad I have to work as a lawyer for
a living because all time writer. But I answer your
question what motivated me is I gone through a difficult
period where I went through a divorce, had a lot
of time on my hands, and as you know from
(04:23):
reading the book, and I don't know how much I
should talk about or give away things. My biological father
left me with thousands of pages of writings and I
during that divorce period, I decided to start to read it,
read it because I didn't know him. So I started
to go through it. And I also wanted it. You know,
(04:44):
it's kind of therapeutic for me to sit down and
start writing. And I didn't know it was going to
be a book until I was like, you know, probably
a couple of months into the process, and I said,
you know, I'm going to go to a workshop and
I want to write a book, and I want to
help people with my book.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
But tell my story, Oh, you definitely have. There is
just a lot to unpack about your your book. And
I have to tell you that my heart. When I
was reading your book, I cried, I laughed. I cried
because there's you know, laughable moments in your book, and
(05:21):
I just you know what I wanted to do because
I'm the person I am. I wanted to hug little Stephen.
I just wanted to hug you as a child and
tell you that you're precious and you're loved. And I
can't even imagine that. You know your father, your biological father, Ellen, Uh,
(05:44):
that's name Nestley. Then you pronounce your nest Ale? Okay,
I was I'm sure that's all. Okay, Ellen, I'm terrible news.
That's all. You know, you had your family and your dad,
your biological dad left you. Dad is devastating, and I'll
(06:07):
show you asked yourself why.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Right?
Speaker 1 (06:10):
And you know, and how as a child can you
not take that personally? That's how to be tough. That's
tough to deal with.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Well, you know a lot of people have asked me
about about that, like how I felt as a child
when all this this stuff happened a lot of chaos,
and you know, it's I compare. It sounds crazy to
to like these sons and daughters of kings and queens
or presidents that are just they're born and so they
accept the life that they're given, which is a crazy
(06:45):
life with all these things. But when you're born into
a certain family. That's the only family you know, and
you kind of get used to accepting chaos, like you
don't even realize this is you realize it's bad. You
know it's bad, but but you're just it's just the
standard in my household so intense. It was hard for
(07:07):
me to figure out and figure out what I was feeling.
You know, I just here, It's hard. It was really
hard to unpacked, you know, my my feelings back then.
I still still have trouble sometimes trying. I'm really when
you when you go back to why I wrote the books,
like just trying to find my feelings, trying to trying
to feel something. You know, I'd never liked to be hugged.
(07:29):
My wife always gives you a hard time about that.
My friends, he's not Steve's by a huger. He doesn't
like to be touched. And you know it was part
of the trauma. That's part of the trauma thing.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
But but yeah, yeah, I really it really it really
day to day in my house is as I described
in the book, was was you just never knew what
was going to hit you.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But something was.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
That Yeah, it was with a lot of trauma and
a lot of trauma they say, the inter generational passed on.
What is sound interesting about your dad, your biological dad,
is that it's had to be mind blowing for you
because later on he remarried and had another family. Yes,
(08:21):
and that had to be shocking. And reading about your dad,
Stephen and how you know he'd like to work with animals,
your mom said, oh, your dad's more comfortable with animals,
to work with animals. Do you think your dad Alan
had some kind of neurodivergent thing going on, because a
(08:44):
lot of times people like to work with you know,
I don't like people they prefer to work with animals.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
I think absolutely had multiple personality disorders of different types
going on. And when when I met him, when I
reconnected with him and espurse, he's been in actually been
through a lot of things, but he's like a person.
You know, back then you didn't hear about all these
diagnoses that you hear about today. So definitely on the
(09:19):
spectrum of the lack of a better term, that's definitely
very socially awkward, very socially and uh didn't look you
in the eye, mumbled when he talked, really hard to
understand him. And I know that he got progressively worse,
but yeah, he had. He had a lot going on
(09:39):
in that rate of visions.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yes, yeah, that's what I was thinking. I was reading
the book because I'm in the neurodivergent community. I saw
the kinds of disability and I've interviewed Ah I feel
about you know, Aspergers, and you know right up about it,
and this is exactly what wass thinking. Plus your dad
was than the war, right, so he could have had
(10:02):
post traumatic from World War Two. I know my dad did.
I know my my mother's brother did. And I'm a
big mental health advocate, Steven, And what I appreciate about
your book is that you are very honest, you don't
sugarcoat and and how to be painful for you in
(10:27):
a way to go back and relive these memories. Did
you find it both painful and cathartic?
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah? I did, I did. I found it it was shocking.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
So wherever that falls that word falls in the in
the spectrum of things, I mean some of this, some
of his writing going through learning things about my own
life and learning everything about his and the way he
wrote it was it was cathartic.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
It was he himself had been and his father had
left him. His biological father had left him when he
was twelve or thirteen. And my Papa, Charlie, who I
loved dearly, was the man who took over. And he
was a violent person himself, the World War Two hero
(11:19):
bus driver. He was great with me. One thing I
want to say too, is that when you know when
divorces happened, I've been through it on both sides, and
I've helped some families as a lawyer too, doing during divorces,
you forget about the grandparents, you know, because not only
did I lose my father when he walked away, I
(11:40):
lost my grandparents who loved me, you know who. They
definitely loved me, and my uncle like that whole collateral family.
All of a sudden, everybody's gone and you're just You're
just a kid. But so there were definitely moments as
I was writing this book where I felt sad and angry.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, yeah, I can understand that because when I can't journal,
you know a lot of people say journal. I eve
when I was going through a tough time when my
mother in law had Alzheimer's and my husband I weren't
getting along, and I journaled and I went back and
(12:24):
read it, I was mad. I would get the home
mad all over again, and I said, I can't look
at this. I got to throw it out. If you
have an interesting title of your book, but Ken, they
are dead, I know how you came up with the title.
Can you tell the audience how you came up with
(12:46):
that title, because it's very eye catching.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
Yeah. Thanks. After debating and deliberating with my family about titles,
because I tried to bring my family and some of
my kids into the decision making of the book. I
wanted them to be part of it so that when
it came out they were supportive and not you know,
running away and thinking there was all this horrible stuff
(13:12):
because it's not. But the title came from years after
my father, my biological father, died, and you know I
learned during the course of the book that he is
a writer. Well I learned that at his funeral, and
I got all these materials, thousands of pages and materials
that he had written in articles and everything else. But
(13:35):
the one thing I did not get was a story
that he had written back in the nineteen seventies that
was published in the National magazine. And that story was
called Hello Yellow And the reason I didn't get it
is because my cousin, who was also a writer, was
he didn't think my father wanted us me to see it.
(13:58):
In fact, there's a note and I think there's a
picture of it in the book where my father, my
biological father wrote, you know, I might you know, this
would be bad if my ex kids ever see it.
And you know the article and you know, I'm reading
an article that he wrote in nineteen seventy and I'm
reading it in two thoy fifteen. But he writes about
(14:20):
the last night that he's spent with us and his
rationalization for giving us up. I mean, I didn't know
he was leaving. He just dropped us off and is God.
But he had gotten advice from a psychiatrist talking about
mental health that the best thing for him is just pretend,
pretend we're dead. And that's what he did. So that's
(14:42):
where the title came from, its pretend they are dead.
And you know, I turned out it pretty much ruined
his life. I mean I lived, I lived probably a
mile from his veterinary office. I lived within a couple
of miles of where he moved. And and I can't
even imagine I'm a father of five kids, not seeing
(15:03):
my kids, were contacting them every day. But it's hard.
It's hard. But for him to drop us off and
and and not come back was I don't I can't
even understand it.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, that is something. And when I received
a press release, I saw I had to read this book.
I've got to have a copy of this book. And uh,
it is just well. I think it will help so
many people, Stephen, I really do. And you know, we
(15:41):
want to do better as parents with our children. And
I know in my own case, you know, my parents
were too busy for me. Even when my mom near
the end of her life in a nursing home nursing
assisted living, still too busy. She could be bothered talking
(16:02):
to me. And I wanted a close relationship with my son.
I wanted him to know that he could come to
me at any time about anything. And I think we
tried to do better, as you know for the next
you're about my age, Stephen, And back then, people didn't
(16:24):
talk about what was going on in their home. They
didn't talk about abuse. They just did not. Boys were
taught and even girls you don't cry. It's weakness. I
was told that as a young girl uh, you know,
you don't, as my mother would say, are your durty
laundery out? So you had all this going on in
(16:50):
your life and you couldn't talk to anyone about it.
That's why my heart, I'm an EmPATH, That's why my
heart just went out to you, and I was like, oh,
my goodness, and how wonderful that you help people. And
I think it's you know, they say that hurt people
hurt people, but I think also that people who have
(17:11):
been hurt also like to help people. You have people
who are very into that impacts, are very compassionate and
help people. Also, there's that side of it, but.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
Absolutely, you know, and you know, one thing I was
blessed with is when I my main practice now is
is personal injury. And you know, so I have a
lot of people that come to me that well, are
are severely injured, gone through some kind of tragic situation.
And and then you know a lot of blue collar
folks and I really, I really know because of the
(17:49):
way I was raised, I know a chaos is So
sometimes clients think, oh, he's a lawyer, so he must
have been raised rich and his life is probably easy.
And I'm I've been able over the years to really
connect with my clients because I've I have done, I have,
I have been there to the bottom. You know, I
feel like I can make to almost everybody. And and
(18:13):
I think that's I think it was kind of like
a gift because my my partner used to say, gosh,
you know, your stories are so great, You're so interesting.
And my family was all dull because we stayed together
and nothing bad ever happened. And uh so so so
so the tools I got from growing up in that
(18:34):
environment have definitely helped me as as a lawyer. One
thing I really wanted to share with you. Let see
because of your earlier your note and and and I
know you read the book as my my wife sent
this book. Sent my book to a friend of hers
who's a lawyer in Boone, North Carolina. And she apparently
(18:57):
she she loved so much. She sent it of this
book club and they've invited me to speak at some point.
But she, yeah, sent me, she sent me. Apparently she
sent this to to a lawyer. This is not a
person I know, but he's writing this note to her
to this other Andrew is their names, but he writes, Andrew,
(19:19):
I am over halfway through pretend they are dead. He
reminds me of Oftener, the way he traverses time and changes
the point of view of his character based on his age.
I channeled him in court this morning when I settled
a custody case. He helped me empathize with the kid
involved in the custody case, and I was able to
give my clients some advice that I never would have
(19:40):
thought of except for the book. Thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Whoa, oh, that is real. That's why Steve and I
had a show because I want people to share their stories.
When we share their stories, we help other people. You know.
Some people think, oh, well, you know you're sharing your
You know, I don't share my experiences I went through
for sympathy. I watch people to learn from my mistakes
(20:08):
so hopefully they don't make them, but to learn from them.
And sometimes we go through awful things in life and
we ask ourselves, well, why did we go through that?
And then there's a bigger picture because it made you
a you know, we have a choice. We could take
what we went through and either be victims or we
could be victorious. And you became victorious, Stephen. And this
(20:31):
is a story that if anyone's listening has a book club,
you need to get Stevens in your book club and
talk about this book. But tend they are dead because
you will learn so many lessons. You grew up. You
had to grow up fast in a way. And I
(20:52):
just want to bring this up. When you were sixteen
years old, you were working at a tennis court, and
tell us what happened. You heard a crash.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
I was working at the tennis Clubs of July Sports
nineteen seventy five. Some things you don't get, and this
the New Jersey. I was the only only person there,
which I still to this day, it just seems like
that that was very strange because it's Courts of July
and I'm out. I was the maintenance guy at the
tennis club. I ride my bike there and sweep the
(21:25):
courts and roll them their play courts in New Jersey.
And as I was doing it on that day, I
was near the one of the end courts, which is
very close to the Highway two ways, a two lane road,
windy road, typical Jersey, you know, through the woods kind
of road. I hear this noise, I hear this incredible crash,
(21:47):
and I look up at a car has hit a
telephone pole, probably fifty seeds from where I was standing,
something like that. I mean, I've never ever seen anything
like that. I mean, people, who's who's to see track
you need or see accidents. I mean it's a even
if you're not in the car, but you're just watching it,
Your your body goes into a different type of modes,
you know, And the the adrenaline hit me and I
(22:14):
ran over. A guy had hit the windshield. His head
was basically resting, you know, through the windshields, and I
ran to make a telephone call, called the police. Back
then there's no nine one one, so he called the operator.
Uh and then and then you know, people started coming
and I ran back over over there and they had
him on the ground and he was hurt very badly
(22:38):
and his eye was kind of cutting the half and
all these things and the police officer and I was
just standing there as you know, I had my shwind
Varsity ten steeds, which I was very proud of. It
was against the walls, against the tree. I remember every
detail of this. And I wound up. So I stood there,
I started to leave, and I felt this inner jeeves.
(23:00):
I felt this It's like when you walk into some
rooms you can feel energy in the room, or you
can sometimes feel when somebody's looking at you, he's just
gonna feel something. And I felt that and I looked
up and this guy was just he was he was
conscious man, and he was staring at me through his
one good eye because his other eye, the eye lid
had been cutting half and all that. And he didn't
(23:21):
say anything, and I just felt, I felt this really
strange sensation. And as I so, I turned around, as
I was walking away, the police officer pulled out his
wallet and said, does anybody know this person? And of
course it was my biological father. And I didn't say
and I never told it. I got on my bike,
(23:43):
I drove back home, and I did not tell anybody.
I was there for forty years.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
Now. That was trauma right there. That was traumatic. Yeah,
and carrying that secret for all those years until you
finally found out why your father was over there. But
I don't want to give it away. You have to
(24:10):
read the book, folks, really is I'm I think I
might have ADHD myself. I go bouncing around. I talked
to people on interview.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
You know, you're something I know I can, I can
talk to it. Let me ask let me ask you
your opinion on this, because because people, you know, say
all that had to be horrible, and of course it
was horrible. The my biological father almost died in front
of me, in fact that he is very close to
that when I'm in the hospital. But but you know,
I still I got on my bike, I rode away,
(24:42):
and I just like stored it away like I didn't.
It's not like I broke down tying or felt that
needul to tell anybody. I was just so traumatized by
life I think that I had I didn't feel things,
you know, and as somebody who's I know, I was
involved in the medical and mean, is that like a
typical I mean, I wish I could say, oh my gosh,
I couldn't sleep for months and it was horrible when
(25:04):
I had these dreams. But I just put it away
and didn't think about it.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
You know what, David, I'm not put a disclaimer. I'm
not a psychologist. I can only tell you what I think.
I think that you are so hurt and traumatized from
childhood up and you were sixteen at this time, that
you had to in order to protect yourself and to survive,
you had to shut people off. You had to shut
(25:32):
off your feelings to survive. And when that happens, and
I know this for my own life, I was never
physically abused. I was emotionally abused. That when we shut
people off because we don't want to feel, and yet
that kind of works in a reverse in a way.
(25:52):
Because we don't feel and we can't get close to people,
it's very hard to trust people. It's very hard to
be vulnerable with people and tell people how we feel
because we're afraid of getting hurt. We're afraid of them saying,
you know, man up, woman up, you know, their judgment
(26:17):
of us. That's what we're afraid of. And I always say,
the same wolves that protect us from people also prevent
the you know, good people from coming into our lives.
So it's a balance there. Excuse me. It's a fine
(26:37):
mind there, you know. And I related a lot to you.
And in reading your book, I thought of my own
father and Stephen. I I don't know why. I mean,
I know, like back in when you were growing up
and when your mom was growing up, you just made
excuses for people. You didn't leave your your husband, because
(27:02):
it wasn't socially acceptable at the time. You didn't talk
about abuse. I don't know how any mother can stand
there knowing that her child is being beaten. My dad
was beaten by his uncle. His mother knew it and
did nothing, didn't do anything. It was his father who
had woken up one time saw his brother hit my
(27:25):
father and was going to hit him, and he my
grandfather told his brother to ever touch Howard again or
I'll be you know, taking my that is my own
hands with you. And he never touched my father again.
And I said to my dad, well, why didn't you
tell your father? He said, I'm not a snitch, So
(27:48):
you know it's.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
A hard thing.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
Yeah, I mean a frying pan would come out if
that was me.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yeah. No, I know. What's sort of like in that
when kids get bullied in school and I handle some
of those cases, you know, they're they don't want to
be seen. Of course, usually there's a weak kid and
they're getting bullied, but they don't want to tell anybody
because they don't want to they don't want to make
it worse, you know, and and they don't want to
be a snitch or whatever whatever it is. It's this
(28:20):
it's this code of honor. And I think you know,
the schools are learning how to handle that. But yeah,
there's no there's no doubt. I mean one thing, one
thing too that I feel is, I mean we had
you know, physical back in those days. Like you said,
we're about the same age. You know, I knew lots
of uh, I had friends or you know, you hear
(28:40):
about people. My father took a belt out like it
was kind of common. You know, it's pretty common for
right then, but funish you physically. I mean that was
not today you know they'd all be in jail. But
back then, y, yeah, there was, there was, There was
definitely uh, you know, there's definitely spanking and delts or
whatever it was. And you know that pain goes that
(29:02):
pain goes away, but the emotional pain, which you adanced
and which I finish, that never goes away. That's hard
to that's hard to get rid of.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Get rid Oh that's true. Yeah, I agree. I'm still
going to therapy. I'm not a share to say it,
you know, along with grieving and it's just you know,
it took me, Stephen, until I was sixty. I'll be
sixty eight. God, Willing in December. It took me to
(29:33):
the age of sixty to turn my script, to turn
my life around, that I am not the person that
I was told I was. And you know, it's when
you are so self conscious, like my dad. I'll just
(29:55):
say it. My dad told me I was ugly from birth.
He always said I was ugly. He said my sister
was fat. My sister told me one time, Betsy, I
always felt sorry for you because I was a fat one,
but you were the ugly one. And so when when
I went in my car, Steven wait before other people
going in their car to do videos, and I would
(30:17):
talk about Alzheimer's as my husband had hearly on set
and people, so I'll bet to your braves, I would
never ever would have had my face on camera. But
I had to put aside my feelings for a cause,
for what I believed in. And that's one thing you know.
(30:38):
You know my dad always told me, and he would
start fights and argue that you know, you stand up
for what you believe in. My mom was kind of like,
you know, be quiet, be a good girl, don't start
any ways. Well, I'm guessing my father's daughter because I
will cause a Sonami, if I have to to get
my you know, to get up my point across or
(31:02):
to get help right, you know. And so I want
to talk about Richard. Your mom met Richard about three
months after your biological dad Alan left and he went
on vacation with your grandparents and you came back and that,
(31:27):
oh my good. Yeah, unbelievable. I mean, just that's why
you've got to read this book.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I talked to my mother about this, you know. First, Yeah,
we go to my parents, take us on this Trimfors
urban village and never have been back there, but I'd
like to go back. But uh, and when we come back,
a whole new family has moved into our house, and
you know, and Richard's who's the pirate past master bully,
all those things, you know, uh, right from the beginning
(32:00):
post his rules, Richard ruled in the house and when
they were harsh and he enforced them. And I talked
to my mother about about why didn't tell us that
they're getting married? Why didn't you tell us? We didn't?
I mean, like we had met Richard and his kids.
He had four kids, So he shows up in our house,
(32:20):
the four kids. We had met them once or twice. Baby,
I'm not sure, you know, I don't remember exactly, but
I asked my mother, like, why didn't you tell us?
And she said, well, I was afraid of what your
father would do. I'm like, and I said, which father
of who are you afraid of? What my biological father
would do if he found out she was getting married?
(32:42):
And it didn't really make sense to me. But then,
how could you not tell your kids that you're getting
married and that this man is moving into your house
with these kids?
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Maybe, yeah, you will say that you look like the
Jewish Brady Bunch.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Hell, yeah, you know, the Brady Bins. And there was
a movie Yours Mine and hours and yes, yeah, they
remember that, remember, Yeah, so it was very important. Appearances
were very important, and yesus back then, yeah, exactly exactly.
I had to walk around like this model family, which
we were not the model family. And but we are
(33:25):
all together. You know. I don't talk much about my
brothers and sisters in the book, but but I can
say that, and one of my brothers is a very
difficult guy, but they've everybody had their own journeys and
they were all we're there's seven of us within five
years of each other and there even though we were
(33:46):
adopted together. Richard adopted me and so I had to
take his last name, and my mother adopted their kids.
So we were all adopted to be made as one family.
And I see them still as my brothers and sisters.
I don't distinguish blood or whatever. We went through it together.
I grew up with them from the time I was
very small, and so you know, I still I will
(34:08):
always consider that my brothers and sisters. And interestingly enough,
I got to call one of the first calls I
got after the book comes out, memoir you know your
pins and needles? What are people going to say? How
is my family going to react? Or you know, people
that you know you're you know. I tried to make
an accurate research. I did a lot of research. I
(34:29):
talked to a lot of people from New Jersey, people
I used to work for my father. I tried to
do everything I could to make sure that I wasn't
hallucinating and h and I wasn't. But one of the
first calls I got was from Richard's sister who was
my aunt and Arlene, and I was at my office
and the phone the receptions comes back and says and
(34:51):
says Steve, and Arlene is on the phone and that Yeah.
I'm like, man, Arlene, I mean, I haven't spoken with
this woman for forty five years since I was like
a kid, and she's got to be like the ninety
and this is Richard's sister. So I'm like, Okay, Well,
I wonder what she's gonna shay, because you know about
the book. And she got on the phone with me
(35:13):
and she said, Stephen, she said, I loved you when
you were a little boy. I always looked at you
as my nephew and I hated my brother every single
day he walked with her.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah, So I mean I wasn't the book wasn't meant
to trash Richard. That's not the reason I wrote the book.
But it's sort of thing that, you know, there's validation that, Okay,
I wasn't making the stuff up.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, And you know I wrote I've heard from there's
a well known person doct Derka Bor Matt Tay, and
he said you could talk to each child and a
family and they all each have a different version of
their parents because the parents are different. With each child
out and reading the book, I mean, there's a lot
(36:03):
of cover here, I was wondering, what did your brothers
and sisters think about the book if they read it?
And what did your a mom, you know saying, was
she mortified? Because I know my mother would be mortified
if for a book that she was alive.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, well for the for the records, for the records.
Most of my brothers and sisters did not read the
book and refused to read the book, so they were
not supportive. I haven't talked to all of them because
some of them for a lot of different reasons. You know,
we're not that closed anymore. But uh my one couple
(36:44):
of my brothers, I asked if I could put their
pictures in the book. I said, listen, out of respect
for you, I'm going to ask you, and it's okay
if you say no, because I'm not going to put
anything in there about you unless you give me permission.
And so, you know, they weren't comfortable with their picture sures.
They weren't. They weren't comfortable with, uh, with any parts
(37:04):
of their stories because there's plenty of stories out there,
a lot more stories out there. So I was very
careful not to not to really make uh, not to
talk much about them, that's why I didn't develop a
much of as characters.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
My mother, my mother, this is uh this and listen,
I love my mother because she's my mother, right and
and she didn't she did not protect us and she
knows that. And you know, one of her proudest moments,
she tells me that was when I got in a.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Fight and I beat him up. And there's a whole
chapter about that.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
But but she so.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
So before I released the book, before I had it
finally published, I sent it to my twin sister, who
was very supportive, and she said, well, Mom's not gonna
like it. H I said, well, I know that, but
I'm gonna She has said that she supports my stories,
my story. She apologized what she did, and so she
supports my book. So she's been and I had sent
(38:04):
her chapters along the way anyway I send them. So
I sent. I said, I'm going to send her a
copy because before I published it, just to you know,
get it out of the way. And she called me,
after telling me for years that she supported my book,
she called me and said, Steven, if you publish this book,
I think I'll commit suicide. Your mind, I know, and right,
(38:29):
talk about drama. And I said, I said to her,
you see, mom, this is exactly why I wrote the book,
because the book is not about you, and you're making
an age. You know, this was my story that you
and I have spoken with the last ten years as
I was writing this. And then you know what, and
I give her total one hundred percent credit. And then
she realized she started realizing, you know what this isn't
(38:52):
you know? She's worried about what her friends are going
to say, Well, her friends in her ninety they're not
going to read the book, right, there's not and it's listen,
I want my book to sell millions of copies. I
would love nothing better to reach the universe and for
it to help as many people as it can. But
but the reality is, you know, there's she lives in Sarasota, Florida.
(39:13):
It's not uh. I don't think that there's gonna be
tons of people that she knows that I'll read it
and her name is not in there. But the one
thing she was really upset about, the most upset about,
and this you'll appreciate this, is she was upset because
she said, we did not have plastic on the furniture.
We weren't allowed to sit on the furniture in our house,
(39:34):
and there was classic on the furniture and so and
I make some jokes about it in the books, and
she said, we did not have plastic on the furniture.
That was for people from the Bronx. We didn't do that.
We're from Long Island. She was very upset about that,
because what are people gonna think that if they find
out I had plastic got my furniture, which everybody did
(39:55):
back the.
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, al from the Brons, like, that's fine because my
grandparents are from the Bronx and they had plastic on
their furniture.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Lots of verse her back then, I will take that.
I will take that out if that's important to you.
And uh, but she's really she's really made a total
you know turn. She's been incredibly supportive. She's been very proud.
She said, I said nothing but nice things once she
got over the initial thing. And she's really tried to
(40:28):
to show that she loves me. And uh, and I
have told him she does not. I don't really write
much about her, but anybody who reads it will be questioning,
where was your mom when all this was going on?
Speaker 1 (40:44):
So well I'm gonna talk about Richard, the man that
your mom married, who was a monster. There's just no
other words for it. He was a monster right away.
He had rules. You couldn't be come in the front
of the house, you could only eat in certain places
at a certain time, and he wasn't afraid to use
(41:07):
his belt. And he was a bully and he was
not He was emotionally and physically abusive to you and
just a horrible human being. And I'm sorry that I
have to say that, but it's what I you know,
see him as from the book. What was his do
(41:31):
you know his background?
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Like?
Speaker 1 (41:33):
What was his environment that he was so horrible? I
mean even his own sistendent like him, did he have
I mean not, I've never excuse anyone's behavior, but was
he abused as a child?
Speaker 2 (41:48):
You know, he never spoke about his childhood ever, never
other than a telus he played football, but he never
told us. He never. I never meant about his father.
I didn't know what he did. I was told his
father was in a nursing home. When my aunt called
me as I just mentioned his sister, she said, she said,
(42:09):
I can tell you lots of stories about about your
father about Richard uh, And she said, and I know
he never talked about his childhood. But it was a
tough one. It was a really tough one. And you know,
he was poor. He grew up poor and his mother
was working in a manufacturing plant. But I don't know
anything about how he was or what he what he did,
he did not. You know, what happened is our whole
(42:33):
past got everything got white washed. And we lived in
that house and we didn't talk about my biological father.
We didn't talk about the biological mother. On the other side,
we didn't and he never talked about those things. And
I never really tried to We all tried to avoid him.
So he's just a mean guy. I mean, you know,
there's yeah, there's bullies, but he was intimidating. He had
(42:57):
a good number of friends because he was funny at
other people's expenses. You know, he's uh. He routinely got
in fights and arguments, you know, routinely, which is hard
to take. But there was definitely that, you know, you
gotta be tough, you got to stand up for things.
I mean, there was you know, he had a hard
work ethic and he forced us to work, which was
(43:19):
which was good, you know, I think there's not enough
of that. There were, you know, good good things, but
the rules were terrible and and we're sort of treated
like a dog and a which is ironically is my
biologic profile as a veterinarian. But he's just an angry guy.
He's just an angry guy.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
Yeah, And like you want your and reading the book,
I was thinking what was richard childhood? Like, you know,
was his parents? And then I was thinking this, it
was his parents Holocaust survivors, and you know what was
(44:00):
you know, what did he go through? He had to
go through something to be that mean and that much
of a bully. You know, you're talking about hurt people,
hurt people. I think that's an example right there. My
heart went out to you and your siblings because when
(44:22):
your mom married Richard, and Richard's children just was their
mother and they didn't have any pictures, They couldn't talk
about their mother. They weren't allowed to grieve, and that
is a terrible, terrible thing. But back then that's what
(44:43):
they did. I mean, you did not talk about the dead. Now,
I don't know, Stephen and dadd is a cultural Jewish
thing because I'm Jewish and I wasn't allowed to talk
about or ask about relatives that were dead. I wanted
to to know about my relatives. So I don't know.
I mean, my father would say, let him rest in peace.
(45:05):
We don't talk about them, So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (45:09):
Sounds a little that sounds a little familiar. I don't
think that was the reason, but that sounds that sounds
a little bit familiar. I mean, I think it was
just more like we are one family, united, and we're
putting their past behind us. And and you're right, the
kids they didn't breathe the death of their mother at all,
and they were at all nothing. And one another interesting
(45:32):
thing is I spoke with a former employee of my
fathers who worked in the veterinary, you know, the veterinary office,
and she told me that at some point she had
babysat for us. One time she said, I couldn't babysit
for for you because for you guys, because Richard was
just too mean. And he told me I was free
(45:55):
to use the belt on you if I needed to.
I mean, it's just a she was a teenage girl,
and and she said, and I just felt so bad
for your brother Mark, who had some clearly had some
of his own problems, and he was clearly desperately needing help,
and she said, and it was just sad to be around,
(46:15):
So she shows she didn't babysit for us. She also,
by the way, is a woman who drove my biological
father to the tennis court to nail those letters into
the telephone pole, which is another crazy story in the book.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah that is really I mean your book, and I
didn't n cover a lot, folks, because there's just so
much to unpack here. And you, you know, Richarded and
sold you're moving too Florida your senior year of high school.
I mean, how devastating is that of itself? And you
mentioned your brother Mark, and I remember reading that his
(46:53):
hand or arm was fractured. Yes, Like, how come it
was a report? Well maybe in fact, then they didn't
report to child services, like none of us was reported.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
I was no, no, yeah, none of it was reported.
And yeah, no I don't, I don't. My mother told
me one time. She she, uh, the two of my
brothers were fighting in a huge fight. Mark was one
of them, and she called the police and left the
house and just left them because I couldn't stand it. Anymore.
(47:28):
Uh so, Yeah, it was you know back then that
you didn't really think about that and she wouldn't have
done it anyway.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
True.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
Uh but you know it's just it was just like
another day in the in in our lives. And I
got it. I gotta tell you to the the the
thing about the letters on the telephone poll and that
story is, like I said, is in the book and crazy.
But actually got this is I actually received uh my messenger.
(47:57):
A woman read my book and she loved it so much.
Is she went to the tennis court. She lives in
New Jersey, went to this Wayne Racket club and she
took a picture of my book with her standing in
front of the side and she sent it to me.
And I was like one of the nicest things I'd
ever heard of. It was such a nice thing to do.
Speaker 1 (48:18):
Yeah, that is the incredible. Richard. You're not Richard. I'm sorry,
he's Stephen. I'm talking about Richard. I rich you on
my head, Stephen, your book. I just had this feeling
it's going to reach so many people. You are going
to help so many people by this book. And I
(48:38):
really hope the people that are listening. If you were
in a book Club to get in touch with Stephen
because this book needs to be read. I feel that
your book should be read by people that deal with children,
the people who have gone through a rough childhood to
(49:00):
read your book. I feel like everyone should read your
book and be deeply touched. I know you want the
Israel and what they ask you, what was it like
to work on a kabbutz? Because that sounded interesting. I
always wanted to do that but never did.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
Yeah, great experience, but I would love you to come back, Richard.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
I'll go ahead. Sure, I know, Richard, I called you
Richard again, Steven, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
That's what I got it, I understand. Yeah, no, that
that's kind of saved my saved my life going to
Israel and trying and trying to come to grips with
who I was and and what I needed to do
in my life because I'd hit kind of a low
spot and you know, getting myself together, uh and doing
a lot of reflection. And now the Israel experience was incredible.
(49:51):
I loved every second of it. And and I you know,
I wanted my kids to go on birthright. They had
that birth right travel thing. But with everything that's happening
over there. It's a little dangerous now, but you're still
in touch with still in touch with people that I
met on the Kibootz and the kibitz I had a
(50:11):
lot of survivors on it, and h and the pork Factory.
But uh, you know, there's there's no That was a
great experience, and I'll probably write about that more and
write about some of my college years more at some point.
But uh, you know, it's it's when you when you
(50:32):
Some people love true crime. It's interesting. I understand it.
I understand why I like watching criminal trials. It wasn't
I'm not a criminal lawyer, but uh but you always
hear this, this one that when it comes to the
sentencing part, you always one of the defenses they always
try to they use, try to minimize the sentence is uh, oh, well,
he was abandoned as a child. You know, this kid
(50:54):
was abandoned. That's the reason why he killed, you know,
horribly killed by people or or this or stole that.
And you said this earlier, and this is in my book.
But you know, you can choose to be a victim.
You can choose to use your your childhood or somebody
you know, beating you up, or or being abandoned by
your mother, by your father, by whomever. You can use
(51:15):
that as an excuse, but it's not going to help
you get anywhere in life. You know, you have to
get out of the victim mode and go, as you said,
for victory. That's what you really have to do, because
no one's gonna do it for you. That's why I
figured out it's real. You know, self help means you
got to help yourself. No one is gonna you know,
at the end of the day, it's you that's got
to do it. And that's what I learned to do.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
That is very, very, very true, Steven. I would love
to have you come back because I didn't. I didn't.
I feel like I can barely sketched the surface. There's
so much to unpacked with your your story, with your book,
you know, becoming a lawyer. So I'd love for you
to come back sometime next year and discuss more about
(52:02):
your your book, Pretend They Are Dead, a Father Search
for the Truth. Where can people purchase the book.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Steven, Well, they can purchase it. They can purchase it
on Amazon, and I also have a website which is
stevenscottikenblack dot com. But pretend they're bad dead is a
little easier to remember. So you can get on Amazon,
you can get it. You can get it, you know,
through my through my website, and uh, there's also an
(52:32):
audible version that that I did and that that was
a great experience of itself. So but you know, yeah,
I would love to come back. I'd love to help
anybody out there that needs help or or just wants
a neutral person to bounce a legal issue. Regarding kids,
I really, I really really have a heart for these
(52:55):
kids that get stuck in the middle of divorce and
the parents put themselves first and that's not a good strategy.
But anyway, I'm I'm around. You can track you down
and I really appreciate your kind words and having on you.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
Oh you are welcome is my pleasure, and they could
connect with you on your website, is that correct, Stephen?
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (53:20):
Great? Great? I thank you again for writing this book.
Congratulations first time book. You do take you after your
biological dad because he was a writer, so it must
be an hereditary and I just really admire you for
(53:45):
writing such a raw, powerful book. But it really touches
the soul matter of fact, I was streaming about the book.
What I was going to say. I was having dreams
about you in this book. And it's a really powerful book, folks.
(54:06):
I highly recommend reading it. You know, reading a book
and change your life. And it has changed people's lives,
and I highly recommend reading this book. I think it
will change people of lies, pretend they are dead. A
father's search for the truth. Steve and Scott, I try
to say your nie correctly. I can glad, I can glad.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Out there that if you buy it, you know, please
take the time to do a review. I'm a new author,
so trying to spread the word.
Speaker 1 (54:40):
Well, Steve, I'm definitely going to post about your book
on my page, my Facebook page, and on my LinkedIn
page because this is a book that should be read
and especially social workers. I mean just really, any wine
if you're going through a rough childhood, if you had
a childhood, read this book.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
And I really say bravo to you, Stephen. From not
choosing victimhoods, you became victorious. You're helping people, You're changing lives.
You are a shining light and we need more of
you in the world. And I thank you again. Excuse me.
(55:25):
Sure you're welcome, folks. She created all about Stephen Scott
Regan blot in the blog that Genie White, who's the
station manager, writes, all the information will be there. And
I thank Gennie for what she does. And thank you
Linland Coldwell, CEO of Pasture World Talk Gradom Network, for
(55:48):
making this so all possible. I want to think let's
a warrant of a let's a warrant PR for arranging
this interview, and thank you for listening and subscribing. Share
this show. I think I don't think I know that
this book will help someone many people, so please share
the show. I'm here to help you. Steven is here
(56:10):
to help you. My show isn't just a podcast, It's
a resource Hasha World Talk Radio Network isn't just the
regular internet station is a resource center. We're here to
help you. And that's what my show is about. It's
about helping people. And if you want to follow me,
I'm on Facebook. That's the e worzel w or z
(56:31):
e l And as I always say at the end
of my show, in a world where you could be anything,
please be kind and shine You're life right because we
need it now. More than ever before, And I thank
you all for listening. This is oh before I forget.
You could also subscribe for free on Spotify, Spreaker, and
(56:56):
Amazon Music. It's like can find Johny? Look that this
is Betsy? Where is all your host of Johnny with Betsy?
I'm pastor Roll Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global
Media Network LLC. Bye bye now
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