July 2, 2025 • 58 mins
⚠️ Disclaimer:
This episode contains sensitive content related to mental illness, medication, and violent crime. It is intended for adult audiences (18+) only. The views expressed are those of the guest and host and are provided for informational purposes only. This episode does not constitute medical advice. Do not stop or adjust any prescribed medication without first consulting your licensed healthcare provider. If you are in crisis, call or text 988 in the United States or seek help from a mental health professional in your area. In this interview, Betsy Wurzel explores the complex relationship between medication and mental illness with guest Edward L. Jones III, author of Medication, Mental Illness, and Murder. This deeply personal conversation highlights the tragedy of the Crespi family and the larger issues facing mental health care in America.Betsy Wurzel interviews Edward L. Jones III, author of Medication, Mental Illness, and Murder: What Really Killed the Crespi Twins. This is Edward’s first book, and a deeply personal and investigative look into the tragedy that shook the Crespi family—and the wider conversation around antidepressants, SSRIs, and mental health in America. Edward’s book challenges readers to think critically about the intersection of medication and mental illness in today’s mental health system.Edward, an award-winning advertising and higher education writer, shares how he became drawn to the story of David Crespi, a respected businessman and father who committed a horrific act that shocked his community.
Together, Betsy and Edward explore how medication side effects and untreated warning signs may have contributed—and how families often don’t know what to watch for.They discuss the importance of understanding side effects, advocating for loved ones, and being alert to sudden changes in behavior.
The conversation also touches on how other countries handle similar cases and what reforms might be needed in mental health care and medication transparency.Betsy reflects on how deeply this story moved her and praises Edward’s courage in writing a book that’s both eye-opening and emotionally powerful.
She encourages listeners to learn more through Edward’s website and reading the book, which dives into not just a tragedy—but also a family's resilience and hope.The Crespi story raises powerful questions about how medication and mental illness are linked, especially when warning signs are missed..
We understand this episode covers difficult and emotional topics. If you or someone you love is struggling with depression, medication side effects, or mental health challenges, please know you're not alone. Help is available. In the United States, call or text 988 to connect with a trained mental health counselor, or speak with your primary care provider about support options in your area.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everyone, this is Betsy Worzel. You're a host of
Chatting with Betsy. I'm Passion World Talk Radio Network, a
subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC our a manstriance to
educate and enlighten and enterteam. The views of the guest
may not represent those of the hosts the station.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Folks.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
This show in particular, I am going to do a
disclaimer that if you have any mental health issue that
you're concerned about, if you take SSRIs that we will
be discussing, please consult your physician whose care you are under.
(00:43):
Do not stop taking any medication. Always, always consult your doctor,
whether it's your primary care doctor, if you're under care
of a psychiatrist, whoever, you're under the cure, under police,
consult them. Also, this show I Reckon Men for adults
eighteen and above. Due to the subject matter, I wanted
(01:07):
to say that it's not for young children, it's for
adult ears. And with saying that, I want to just say,
as you all know, I'm a mental health advocate. It
is still mad and still Mental Health Awareness Month. And
the name of the book. I'm going to just say
(01:27):
the name of the book first, and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
To tell you about the author.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Name of the book is Medication, Mental Illness and Murder
But Really Killed The Cresby Twins by Edward L.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Jones Third.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Now, before you say, oh, that sounds depressing, Oh, I
don't think I want to hear that. You're gonna want
to hear this. This is a story I did not
know about myself. And I'm so glad I read the book.
And I just want to say kudos to ed Jones
for being brave enough to tackle this matter, to write
(02:06):
this book, to address mental health care issues, the criminal
justice system and what's going on. And I am, you know,
very passionate about mental health care issues.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And I want to tell you.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
About Edward old Jones the third Now Ed has been
an award winning writer in advertising and higher education. During
his ed career, he won more than three hundred and
fifty awards for creativity and his time away from advertising,
Ed served as a community columnist for the Charlotte Observer.
(02:44):
He lives in Winston, Sale and North Carolina area. This
is the first book, and I'll tell you, folks, for
a first book.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
And I'm by no means are credentials to be a
book critit for first book and credible.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I want to see Ed Jones the best international seller.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
This book needs to be told around the world. People
need to read it.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I want to welcome Ed Jones to Jenny with Betty
welcome it.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Thank you, Betty, your words are most kind. I really
appreciate them. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh you are welcome. I have to tell you.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
This book deeply touched me on so many levels for
so many different reasons. And being that I am a
mental health care advocate, I was kind of like, I
don't know about this book, to be honest, and when
I started reading it, I was like, oh my goodness.
I never heard of the Christy situation, the trial. I
(03:49):
never watched the Oprah one free show. I saw clips
of it. Now after I read your book. All right,
as I was reading your book and my heart just
goes out to the Kristy family. I mean, this is
the travesty is an understatement. Could you tell us how
you came upon the story and what motivated you to
(04:12):
write this book, and again, kudos to you for doing it.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
I apployed you.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Thanks so much. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't go looking for
this story. It kind of came looking kind of came
looking for me. And what I mean by that is,
in November of two thousand and five, my wife and
I were just getting to know David and Kim Cresby,
(04:41):
and by around December of the same year two thousand
and five, right around Christmas time, and who had befriended
Kim Cresby more than I had befriended David, and told
me that Kim had told her that David was suffering
(05:03):
from a really bad bout of depression right there around
Christmas time, and my heart immediately went out to him
because by that time I had fought my way through
three bouts of clinical depression, and all of those bouts.
(05:26):
All those bouts happened before the advent of SSRI anti depressions,
probably between nineteen seventy four and eighty one, so I
was able to successfully fight those off and have been
successful ever since. But you know, I told my wife
to tell Kim Cresby tell David that if he needed
(05:49):
somebody to talk to, I would be there yesterday. Because
you know, if any of your listeners have experienced depression,
and they know that depression is agony on every level, mentally, spiritually,
even physically, you know, so you know, so I said, I,
(06:12):
you know, gosh, I really feel for David what he's
going through. I'll be there for him, you know, in
a milliseconds. Well, we got word from Kim that David
had experienced previous episodes of depression and that she and
David felt like he was getting the best clinical care
(06:32):
that he ever had, and so we breathed a sigh
of relief and thought everything was going to be okay.
And then, you know, gosh, three four weeks later, on
January twentieth, two thousand and six, we received a phone
call from a friend named Teresa called my wife, and
(06:56):
I think Teresa almost sort of said, are you sitting down?
And she's a very religious person, but she said to
my wife, you know Dave Dave Cresby. And my wife says, yeah, yeah,
I know, Dave. Dave just did away with his twin daughters, Samantha,
(07:18):
five year old twin daughters. And of course, you know,
we almost fainted hearing that news, and you know, I
almost had a form of survivor guilt there for a
while after after we heard about that. But so what
happened was on the morning of, like around the mid
(07:44):
afternoon of January twenty two thousand and six, David was
home on medical leave. He's a very successful banker, an
exemplary husband and father, no history of violence, but he
was at home on medical leave and he was with
(08:04):
Kim and the two twin girls, five year old twin girls.
The other three children were away at school. So when
Kim went out to hit a haircut at about twelve five,
the little girls came over to David, who was on
his computer, and asked if he would like to play
(08:27):
a game of hide and seek. And I'm not going
to go into all the horrific details, but he ended
up finding them and stabbing them both to death, and
then then he called nine one one after he'd washed up.
(08:48):
He calls nine one one, and the first thing he
says is I just killed my two daughters. And you
hear the nine one one operator say you just what?
I just killed my two daughters in this kind of
weirdly measured tones, and then a female nine one one
operator cuts in and says, sir, are you on any medication?
(09:09):
He says, yes, what kind of medication? I'm on? Antidepressants.
Later she says, we're just worried that you've taken too
many medications and you know, and that you're disoriented, and
he says, no, no, this is real. And so one
of the interesting things about that is that the the
(09:35):
transcript of that nine one one tape and the recording
of that nine one one tape was not released to
the press nor to the public until almost three months
after David Cresby was sentenced to two consecutive life terms
without the possibility of parole. So, as you can imagine,
(09:58):
I've I've followed, you know, after the tragedy. I followed
the reporting in the Charlotte Observer, and as you said,
I was a community columnist for them for a while.
And what came out was that David was on a
cocktail of different drugs, prescribed drugs, ambient trasit done, and
(10:24):
he had just started prozac seven days before the killings.
And it later came out that he was also on clorithromcin,
which is my doctor told me it's combining clorithromcin and
prozac is a particularly explosive combination. But anyway, so it
(10:48):
kind of went from there. I went to Superior Court
hearing and that's in the book, and maybe we can
talk about that. I've gone on too long.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Probably sorry, No, I'm not sorry. Please, you know what
I'm going to go. I'm going to start.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
From David Crespy's first marriage because I think it's important, Ed,
I want to bring this out.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
David Crispy was married to another kid.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Right, and his first wife had brain cancer I remember
from the book, and unfortunately she died and he had
two children with her.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Is that correct? But I remembering quickly. Now I just.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Want to say, right then, right here and now, I'd
interviewed male caregivers.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I am in the caregiving community.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Watching your love one die, We'll make you depressed. And unfortunately,
as you know, in our society, and I hope this changes,
I'm doing my part to help change it. By my show,
men are told to suck it up, be strong, which
(12:07):
is a bunch of nonsense. People stuck telling people to
be strong. I can't even stand on that, and that
needs to change. I get the whole show on that.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I just want to say that I believe in my
own opinion that David probably started then unless he had
depression before, because he probably felt I can imagine from
what I hear from other male caregivers. As a man,
you think you could fix it. You should have fixed it,
(12:39):
you could have made it better. Know, there's things you
can't make better in life. Unfortunately, then having to deal
with the grieving and having two young children, I can't
even imagine. I mean, I lost my spouse, I know it,
that's fight, but to have young children and I know
that when my husband was dying, people have the audacity
(13:04):
to tell my son and I be strong.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yes, that's so.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
That just it's not a proper thing to say, folks,
because people are strong and men are strong. But just
because someone cries and seeks mental health support does not
make them weak. That's right, And I'm very strong about that.
(13:32):
I get very emotional about that because it just is
so wrong, the stigma and what society places on men
and young boys.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
And I hope that changes.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
We need to have an environment where boys can voice
their their feelings in the constructive manner. But I digrass,
I want to bring that out.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's that's that's a great that's a great point. Yes,
you know, I've heard very various theories about what can
cause depression, and I've I've heard kind of suppressing anger
can be an element I think. I think you're right,
grieving can can plant the seeds and and I think
(14:22):
part of grieving is anger about what's happened to among one.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And so no that I'm behind you one hundred percent
of what you just said.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yes, and if David didn't get counseling, because how could
he with his job and taking care of two children,
plus it's frowned upon. Yeah, you get depressed. I mean,
let's face it, who wouldn't it be depressed when their
south dies? Everyone is yes, And grieving actually, you know,
(14:59):
does change your your brain.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It's called the grieving brain.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
But I just wanted to address that because as soon
as I read that in this book, in your book,
and I was thinking, this poor man probably started then, well,
probably when his wife got diagnosed. Actually, and just the course,
(15:24):
because David Crespy, as you said, was a great father.
He started a scholarship in honor of his first wife,
a nursing scholarship. He was very successful.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
In his field.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Why was this job again, to know what to do
with the bank bank something with the financial.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, So I'm glad you mentioned this timeframe.
So by the time he was twenty nine. He was
the uh CFO of Sacramento's Savings Bank. He was the
youngest CFO in the history of that savings bank, which
had had a I think it was one hundred years
(16:12):
old or so. And you know, he went to UH
an arm of the University of California there in Sacramento,
had a perfect four point oh grade point average, and
then when he took the CTA exam, he he scored
in the top five in the country that year. So
(16:36):
uh he was he was quite quite a star in
the financial world. By the time he got to Charlotte
where the these horrible events happened. He was working for Jacovia,
which has been renamed swallowed Up. But he was in
charge of compliance there and that was one of the
(17:00):
stressors that was going on at the time of the tragedy.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I know.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
That with medications, and I actually I know this for
a fact that from my own personal experience. I was
on antidepressants. But I know that and taking medication, some
people are very sensitive. I'm very sensitive medication. There's a
side effect that they had, I'll get it. But a
(17:30):
lot of these ssries and some of these anti depressants,
they are black box.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Now. I know David was young man.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
But they are black box for those that are sixty
five and older. And even if you have side effects,
you pull up your doctor a lot or talking to
them in person a lot of times they don't believe you.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I mean, that's a whole nother showing of.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Itself of Also, I just want to tell people, you've
got to be your own advocate.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
You have to.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
You see your loved one who can't speak up for themselves,
or you yourself, your children are having side effects, call
them up and insist that they listen to you because
they kind of shoeshoe you off. And have your proof,
do your research and be your advocate.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I digress. I don't understand it.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
No, that's right, yeah, you know, just just to add
to what you're saying about the importance of that and
being aware of side effects. You know. The first two
sentences in my prologue are these, This is a true
story about a terrible family tragedy, A tragedy made more
(18:58):
terrible by how preventable it was. What do I mean
by that? Fifteen hours before David Cresby killed his utterly innocent,
defenseless little girls, he and his entire family was playing
a board game in their kitchen, and that included the twins.
(19:20):
They were playing the game with everybody, and the whole
family noticed this odd behavior. He was walking very spacious house.
He was walking strangely erratically around the various rooms in
the house, into the library, into the dining room, into
(19:42):
the living room, and then coming back and then doing
the whole circuit again. And then Kim that later that
evening he was erratically jumping in and out of their bed,
and she recently told me that they had this square
rugged beside their bed and he was doing the strange
(20:03):
thing of going from you know, almost obsessively, going from
corner to corner to corner of of of that rug.
And what that was was that was a that should
have been a glaring. It should have been like alarm
bell should have been going off, because what David was
(20:24):
evincing was a side effect called akathesia. Akathesia is a
Greek word which basically means the inability to sit still,
and what it signals is that the body, the brain
is going into toxicity and that the person experiencing that
(20:47):
is in grave danger of harming himself or others. And
if the Crispy family had known about that, those perhaps
those little girls would still be alive today. Why did
they not know that? Because for decades the big pharmaceutical
(21:08):
companies that make this, that make these drugs, suppressed clinical
trial data that showed this side effect in a significant
number of trial patients. And here's an example that just
(21:29):
that drives me crazy. So Prozac was introduced, and that
was the first SSRI antidepressant introduced to the world, really
in America. But that was nineteen eighty seven. Now here
is and of course all these companies were sort of
(21:49):
doing these clinical trials in the run ups to when
they finally marketed these various SSRI antidepressants. This involves Zoloft
and Pheiser. So check this out. In nineteen eighty three,
this is four years before any SSRI was approved market
(22:10):
for the market in the US. In nineteen eighty three,
nine years before the launch of Zoloft in the United States,
twenty one years before the FDA required Pfizer to put
a black box warning on it. Piser had done a
healthy volunteer trial on Zoloft in the United Kingdom. They
(22:30):
recruited twelve women for this trial. Half of them were
to be given zoloft. The other half were given a placebo.
The trial was due to run for two weeks, but
it was stopped after one week because every single woman
taking zoloft had become anxious, apprehensive, agitated, in other words,
(22:53):
showing signs of akathedia. One or two had begun to
voice thoughts about harming others. These were previously healthy women.
One or two had begun to voice thoughts about harming others.
All of the other things that led the FDA to
put a black box warning on this drug twenty one
years later were there in nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Wow, what what ad piser do?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
They buried all of that.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
But there's a there's a a wonderful jew doctor named
doctor David Healy who has whose work I cite in
the book, who was able to get hold of all
that data and dig into it and find out these things.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Well, that just is mind boggling.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And you know in your book you also have like
little side stories of people who were on various medications
who did violent acts. And now when I hear about
a violent act, I wonder were they on something. That's
the first thing I think I asked, Because you know
(24:06):
when you hear these commercials for these various medications and you're.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Like, well, who the heck wants to take it?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
If you're already or depressed, maybe you could be suicidal,
and then it can make you have more ideation of suicide.
I mean, I'm glad I never took medication and I
didn't take that. But can you tell the what it's?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
What is it SSRRI?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah. S SRI is an acronym for selective serotonin re
uptake inhibitor, and those drugs are based on a theory
that if through these drugs, you elevate the level of
(25:05):
a neurotransmitter called serotonin in the brain, if you kind
of elevate the presence of that in the brain, somehow,
that is a silver bullet to you know, to basically
cure the depression in a way, you know. And yeah,
(25:28):
it's and you know, as I say, and you know
at first that that probably seemed like a good a
good theory because you know, as I as I revealing
in the book, the first generation of antidepressants came about
(25:51):
by accident. A group of chemists set out in about
nineteen fifty five or so to uh try to find
a chemical compound that was capable of wiping out the
bacterium associated with tuberculosis. So they finally found they finally
(26:15):
found what they thought was was something that could that
that could do that, and ironically it was it was
stockpiled not see rocket fuel fuel, that fuel that had
been used to uh, you know, to propel Nazi rockets
(26:37):
in World War Two.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
So that sounds gross to take.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah, Well, so what what happened was so they
brought this these chemicals back to a lab in New
Jersey and they derived a couple of a couple of
different uh molecules or chemical compounds. One of them was
called like a Prian AzID. I think it's this is
(27:07):
in the book. It's in a chapter called a History
of Antidepressants. So they tested the you know, what they
thought was going to be a cure for tuberculosis on
some patients who were in a hospital, sanatorium or whatever
in Staten Island, And what they found was the patients
(27:33):
were still coughing up blood, but some of them were
coming out into the carts and sort of dancing, you know,
and so they seemed happier than ever ever before as
they were as they were dying from their tuberculosis. Well,
so what happened was the scientists had this theory that
(28:00):
that led to mono amine, the first generation of antidepressants,
mono amine inhibitors, and and and at that time they
thought three the three neurotransmitters that that were helping to
solve depression were dopamine, serotonin, and one other neo nephrine
(28:26):
or something like that. Sorry about I don't have that
right in.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Front of that.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
But so that but that first generation of you know,
the monoamine inhibitors ended up having terrible side effects, you know,
terrible liver damage, causing hypertension. And so what what happened
was some there was a group of chemists associated with
(28:55):
Eli Lilly that went ahead and they based the future
drugs on it's got to be serotonin that we need
to isolate on and maybe that will you know, eliminate
these physical side effects. And so that's that's kind of
a long winded thing, but that's how it all came about.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Well, I just you know, I know friend that I
went to high school with her daughter. I had asked
her if they're reading your book, I asked her what
medications her daughter was on, and she wasn't sure if
she knew she took ambient and unfortunately her daughter committed suicide.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Ugh, how horrible.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And yes, and I talked to my psychologist about your
book and about akathesia.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Is that how you pronounced it?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
And gus asia and he said yes, he says you
have to watch someone for that.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
When someone goes on.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Medication, they you can't just say okay, see in four weeks.
They have to be monitored. Was David Christy monitored weekly
by his doctor?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Do you know he he was? You know he was,
you know, the day before the killings, he had been
in a session, in a session with Kim right there
with his with his therapists. Yes. And you know you
(30:35):
mentioned the the Oprah Winfrey show. You know, she really
seized on Miss Winfrey really seized on the fact that
David later admitted he was having these dark thoughts, but
that in that session the day before the killings, he
didn't share those those dark intrusive thoughts about harming his
(30:59):
family and and and you know that that was kind
of mss Winfrey's premise about like, you know, she comes
at the end of the of the hour long show,
she says, you know, here here's the lesson of all this.
If he had just you know, shared his dark thoughts
(31:20):
those two little girls and they could have changed the
medication quote unquote, and those two little girls might be
alive today. And I would I would like to if
I could talk about Yeah, you mentioned you mentioned some
some other cases from around the world, and this is
(31:40):
this is one I think it's important for listeners to
hear about. So this is this occurred in Australia. And
here's how this story goes. On August the first, nineteen
ninety nine, seventy four year old Australian David Hawkins, another David,
a model citizen with no prior history of violence, attacked
(32:02):
his sixty eight year old wife, strangling her to death.
He immediately called Australia's equivalent of nine to one one
and the call was recorded. Here's the first thing he said,
I have killed my wife. How eerily similar does that sound?
I got tablets from the doctor yesterday and I think
(32:23):
they were too strong. I went absolutely wild. I don't know,
I have got to go. I'm heading out and I'm
going to get rid of myself. Nobody, nobody can help me.
Now I'm shaking here. I can't wait, I can't stop.
So the tablets quote unquote tablets David Hawkins had taken
were Zoloft. When he hung up, Hawkins attempted to asphyxiate
(32:44):
himself with carbon monoxide from his car. He stopped because
he was worried about the effect that two deaths would
have on his daughter. Hawkins was charged with murder. At
the trial, the judge accepted a defense of automatism, meaning
that Halkins wasn't responsible for his actions. Here's what the
Supreme Court judge of this Australian court said, quote, but
(33:09):
for the Zoloft which he took on the morning of
August the one, nineteen ninety nine, it is overwhelmingly probable
that missus Hawkins would not have been killed on that morning. Okay,
so this is this The last part is germane to
what we were just talking about. Before this. The Supreme
Court quoted quote evidence from the Department of Health and
(33:32):
Age Care of five hundred and ten Australian patients on
zoloft who reacted badly, wrote a couple of reporters. The
world's leading expert of zoloft, doctor David Healy, of the
University of Wales College of Medicine claims the five hundred
and ten figures undoubtedly wrong and that between five thy
one hundred and fifty one thousand patients affected adversely would
(33:56):
be realistic. The truth, he says, can never be known.
This is very important about the Cresby case too. The truth,
he says, can never be known because patients keep their
feelings to themselves, fearing what will happen, Fearing what will
happen if they reveal murderous thoughts. He's saying this in
nineteen ninety nine, eight years before the Cresby or seven
(34:19):
years before the Cresby tragedy. Let let me repeat that.
The truth, he says, can never be known because patients
keep feelings to themselves, fearing what will happen if they
reveal murder's thoughts. Imagine that you are taking Zola off
and you start to have feelings that you want to
murder your children. Heally said, how can you speak about
it if you think that you might get locked up? Yeah,
(34:45):
you know.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
That's true, and I would never would have thought about that.
But as hard enough as you know ed for people
to say I'm depressed, unsuicidal, right, that's hard enough to
omit to so saying that you are having homicidal thoughts,
that is a whole different.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Ballgame. I mean it would really.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
They would lock I would think they would lock you
up or at least put you somewhere in minor to you,
you know.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
To get a right mixture of medication.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
And you know, medications is trial and error and everyone's
body is different. But why is And you gave a
case of which I found very interesting from Canada, David
Carmichael and the difference with the justice system, and that's
a health system between you know, other countries in the
(35:44):
United States.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It seems like the United States is kind of behind.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
David has become a friend and uh and I feature
his cautionary tale and what he's been doing around the
world in two chapters called a Tale of Two Countries.
And yeah, I used his story to compare and contrast
what happened, you know, with the David Cresby case. So
(36:13):
David Carmichael, like David Cresby DC Initials, was an actually
actually a nationally known fitness expert, and he appeared on
television talking about this this program that he was the
director of called ParticipACTION, which was an attempt to get
(36:36):
Canadians to exercise more and you know, help them have
better mental and physical health. And the Canadian government cut
the five million dollars that funded that program. Sounds kind
of familiar these days, right, Yeah, they cut the program
(36:56):
and David became distressed, and it was dying knows as
being depressed. I'll try to get through this fairly quickly.
But he he ended up while he was in a
paxel induced by kosis. He strangled his beloved eleven year
old son Ian to death in a hotel room and
(37:20):
called nine to one one the next morning, et cetera.
The difference between what happened to David Carmichael and David Cresby.
In the Carmichael case, you know, he was tried for
a first first degree murder. He was found not criminally
(37:42):
responsible for his actions. He was sent to a mental
health facility in Ottawa. Brockton I think was the name
of the facility, and he there he actually received pretty
one wonderful mental health care. His his wife and his
(38:05):
surviving daughter, who had forgiven him almost immediately because they
knew that the drugs had caused the tragedy, could visit
him almost any time they could walk on the grounds
with him, and after about two years of treatment, he
was able to go back and live with his his
(38:26):
wife and surviving daughter. And you could imagine the stigma,
uh that has that has haunted him ever since. So,
you know, nobody, nobody's even in you know, civilized forgiving Canada.
Basically nobody was willing has been willing to hire him.
(38:47):
But he has found a way to get spons donations
and to go around the world and tell his cautionary
tale and try to and try to save lives and
and you know, and we can talk more about one
of those efforts because it involves children and adolescents, which
(39:10):
I think is an important thing to talk about.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Oh, definitely, yes.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
I can't even imagine the trauma that these families have faced.
You know, how do you other children react that your neighbors,
your community, you know they must be you know, some
might support.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Some might shun them. Uh.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Financially, the stress of you know, going to jail and
the lack of income because you know they lived.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
In a well to do area.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
He you know, was very financially successful, and how do
you go from that to being no income. It's just
a lot in the and living with David Cresby, living
with the fact that he killed his beautiful daughters, Tess,
Sarah and Samantha. I'll tell you why. It takes a
(40:12):
special type of woman, I think a person to forgive
that that happened. I mean, I don't know if I could,
to be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Absolutely yes, yes, so I have I have this, Uh
have this in the book. In the superior court hearing
in Charlotte about the Crespy case, right towards the end,
Kim Cresby, uh, you know, asked to take the stand,
(40:44):
and the defense lawyer, Jim Cooney, you know, questioned her
and and towards the end his question was, Kim, do
you still love David? And she said, very haunting words, yes,
of course I do. You don't stop loving somebody because
(41:05):
they're sick. True, and you know, as as people will
find out when they read the book Kim. In about
twenty fifteen, she was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease, which I
think probably was dropped, could have been brought on by trauma, grief.
(41:28):
Its no history of Parkinson's in her family, and now
she is suffering from advanced Parkinson's disease. To the point
where she needs twenty four to seven care. You know,
she can't even I've gone to visit her, and you know,
she's lost control of her neck muscles. So there has
(41:50):
to be a healthcare provider kind of behind her when
she's in a chair to lift her head up so
she can look at you eye to eye. And she's
really my hero. She has never really cursed the face.
You know, she she chooses to light a candle instead
of cursing the darkness. And you know, she's she's a
(42:13):
woman of profound faith. And I will say that, you know,
I did a book signing event in Charlotte about a
month or so ago, and she came to that event.
It was it was standing room only, and she's been
(42:33):
so lifted up by all of this, and you know,
we just we've got to get to David and restore
some of his hope.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yes, that's that's what I got from reading this book,
that Kim is a woman to faith, strengths, grit, determination,
and so heartbreaking to know that, you know, she is
suffering from severe events. Parkinson's how is David Crespy joined?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
What is going on with him at this point?
Speaker 3 (43:11):
He's well, first, first of all, in the last six
months or so, he's been moved uh two two, Uh,
he's been moved to three different prisons. The second one
was kind of a notoriously dangerous one where an inmate
had been stabbed to death. And but he's he's in
(43:36):
a he's in a pretty dark place. They at one prison,
he had he had kind of forged a good as
good a life for for himself as he could. You know,
he'd become an assistant to a chaplain. He had helped inmates,
some of the inmates get there g e d you know,
(43:57):
he was a teacher. Uh. He helped convert a few
fellow inmates to Catholicism, his beloved faiths. And he had
a bunkmate who was one of those people that he
helped convert, and the prison separated the two of them
(44:18):
and then started bringing in more sort of young, more
dangerous criminal convicted criminals into his unit. So soon thereafter
he just started not not calling his wife. You know,
they faithfully called each other at least once a week
all these years, you know, nineteen years, he stopped calling her.
(44:42):
Didn't want to see didn't want to see visitors. You know,
he had he had established, you know, kind of a
pen power relationship with like four hundred different people, one
of whom is General Petraeus, you know who act he stopped.
He stop writing all those letters. So we're trying to
(45:05):
He's in a prison about two hours from me, and
I'm gonna see if I can get in. I used
to be on a list of people that could visit him.
You know, I visited him with with my wife and
Kim twice. Uh, you know, about a year or so
after the tragedy, year and then a year and a
half later. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
And how about the children.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
They they are remarkable that they have. They are all
well adjusted, healthy young adults now, and you know, I
think they're very heartened about what's going on. But you know,
as you can imagine, you know, it's and David Carmichael
(45:54):
will tell you this. You know, every time he has
to get up and tell his his his story, he's
re traumatized by it. So I think all three of
those young adults, you know, they're they're trying to get
on with their life, and of course they're they're constantly worried,
sick about their mom and their dad. And then you know,
so you know that they're they're trying to just look
(46:20):
to the future as much as they can while supporting
their mom and dad as best they can, and and
without getting retraumatized, you know, all the time. So somehow
they found they found a way to do that. And
as far as I know, I don't think any of
them has suffered from depression so far. Knock on wood.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
So yeah, that's more. Yeah, that that is great. What
would you like.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
People to know? It's from your book? What would you
like them to get out of your book?
Speaker 3 (46:57):
Sure? Yes, I've got four things I'd like to leave behind.
Four key messages. A. When patients and their families are
armed with accurate information about medications, lives can be saved better.
(47:19):
Two better, more evidence based options for treating depression are
now available instead of neurotoxic pills. Three, You as a
patient have a legal right to informed consents. That's a
very important issue we could get into sometimes. And and
(47:42):
number four, never give up hope, Never give up hope
that you know. At the end of Oprah Winfrey's hour
long episode on The Crispy Tragedy, she called upon a
forensic psychiatrist named doctor Michael Welner, And you know, kind
(48:06):
of asked him about the depression, and he said that
the key factor that characterizes severe depression is hopelessness, and
he offered some tips to the audience. First, if they
seem to if a loved one seems to be hopeless
(48:26):
about one specific thing, try to get them to focus
on something else that might give them a reason for hope.
Welner said that this was why as a psychiatrist, he
put a good deal of stock in faith and spirituality.
They offer quote, a clear and unobstructed pathway to hope,
he said. Second, never allow a depressed person to isolate,
(48:50):
and don't be hurt if they try to shut you out.
Try to find someone else they can connect with. Finally,
Welner said that perhaps the key lesson he wanted to
impart that you may not hear from anywhere else is
do not rely upon medicine. Doctors will only do so much.
You may set yourself up for disappointment.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
That is Yeah, that is really powerful and strong. I
know ed I barely scratch the surface with your book.
Don't want to give the whole book away either, want
people to buy it.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Where can people purchase your book?
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Medication Mental Illness and murder What Really killed a Krusty Twins?
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Thanks for asking. I would advise that you go to
my website Edward Lee Jones dot com. That's Edward Lee
Jones dot com and there's a tab there that says
buy the book, and there's four different links to various
online places where you can buy the books. Of course,
to Amazon, there's Barnes and Noble, there's my publisher, Roman
(49:55):
and Littlefield and one other that I forget. But whatever
method it's best for you.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
And can people connect with you on your website?
Speaker 3 (50:07):
They can? They can. You know, there's a form that
that's on there and yeah, my son is kind of
monitoring that. But but yeah, if you if you fill
that form out and give me your contact information, I
will get back to you.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Well. Edward L.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Jose the third, I can't thank you enough. If you
were standing in front of me, I'd give.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
You a hug. I'll just.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
I think it is so brave of you to not
only write this book, but a tough subject matter that
must be addressed, but for you yourself to admit to
the world that you did have a depression.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
That's not easy to say.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
And I tell people, I tell my audience all the time.
You know, seek support. I talk about I still see
a psychologist. I'm not ashamed to say it because I
feel if I can't, if they hear me, maybe will say, oh,
if Betsy goes.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
In, then I'll go. She's not ashamed of going.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Folks, if you need support there, it's not a sign
of weakness.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
A matter of fact, it's a sign of strength.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
I can't repeat it enough to say I need help,
and it's okay to need help.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
And folks don't judge others.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Don't judge others that they take medication or they are
seeking support because you never.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Know, well, life is going to throw a you need
to see someone, or you might need to take medication.
You don't know what life has in store for you.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
It's you know, I'm glad I don't suffer from depression anymore.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
I read a book back in the seventies by Tim Lahay.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
He's I don't know if he was a Christian psychologist,
I don't even remember, but he believed that depression with
anger turned inward, which was interesting. Excuse me exactly, but
I would love to have you on again. ED September
(52:22):
is a suicide prevention awareness months, but any time, because
we could talk about medication, We could talk about so
many things. And your book, folks, I would run and
get this book. It does not depressing as you might
think that it sounds. It's a book of hope. It
(52:44):
is will open your eyes to medications. It will open
your eyes and your mind to think, to question your
doctor if you are on medication, and if you have
side effects, to question your doctor. Don't be afraid to
speak up. We must speak up. I had to speak
(53:04):
up for my husband when he was getting side effects.
Of course they didn't believe me, but I have a
big mouth, so I did prove my point. I'm not
afraid because.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Waves.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
I'll close the tsunami if I have to to get
my point across.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
And I just really thank you Edward L.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Jones third for coming on my show and just writing
this awesome book.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
This is your first book.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
What do you give a book in mind for for
the next one?
Speaker 3 (53:47):
Uh? Not yet, not yet. I'm toying with a h
with a screenplay or two. Wow, I'm hoping kind of.
One of my next steps is I'm hoping that we
could convince a producer somewhere to do a Netflix style
(54:10):
docu series based on this book. I think that would
be ye powerful.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Oh absolutely, I hope that comes through for you. Absolutely,
And if by any chance you let me know and
you can come to my show and promote it whatever
you do, and you want to come back in my
show and promote whatever you're doing screenplay, you just let
me know because I would be more than happy to
promote whatever you do.
Speaker 3 (54:36):
And love to do.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
I just you know, I want to say I best wishes.
I hope this book becomes that international bestseller. I want
the world to know about David Cresty and his family
and what they went through. And it's a tragedy because
it could have been prevented if they know about side effects.
(54:59):
And really, I hope that's changed, and you're right, ask
about the side effects, get the informed consent. You can
always ask your pharmacy.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
It's always comes in with the medication. Read it and.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
You know, read the side effects, and you know, we
have to be our own advocates.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
That's it. I talk about that all the time.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Educate yourself and be an advocate for yourself and your family.
You don't have to have a big map like me
to tell and tell in the world. But you can
do what you do in your own corner for your
own family and yourself, and it's so important and I
(55:45):
really would be honored to have you on again.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
There's a multitude we could.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Discuss, and thank you again Edward for coming on and
all the information folks about the book and Edward L.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
Jones.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
The thirty will be in the blag that Genie White,
the station manager rates and think Genie, and I want
to thank Leman Caldwell, who's CEO makes us all possible.
Pastora will to a greading network. I want to think,
let's Sa Warren, who is president of Lisa Lissa Warren
p R. Who introduced me to this book and to
(56:25):
Edward Jones, phenomenal PR person uhlet's say, is the best
in her field as far as I'm concerned. And so
if you're looking for a publicist, I'm gonna have uh
Listen of information and the black also, So I'm going
to shout out to uh Lista because a lot of her,
(56:45):
a lot of her clients are a big part of
chatting with Betsy and ever so grateful and folks, I
just want to say this, don't judge people of what
they're going through I know I said it before. You
are not alone. There are resources out there. I am
(57:05):
That's what I do my show for. I want people
to know the resources for you to have a better
life as you are in a crisis called nine to
eighty eight in the United States, seek your primary care
physician for mental health references in your area. And let's
stop the stigma of mental health. I'm glad it's less
(57:28):
stigmatized now than it was in the seventies, and I'm
glad about that, but we need to change our way
of thinking. And please, for the love of all that
is God, please stop telling people to be strong.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
It doesn't help folks. It's hurtful. Actually, it's actually hurtful.
It's not helpful.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
Please stop saying that you know what you should say. Instead,
I'm going to tell you say I'm here for you.
How can I help you? Or just listen, Just be
a shoulder or an ear. That's what people need and
you know, and to give them hope. And I want
to thank everyone for listening. If you don't want to
(58:16):
really subscribe to Chatting with Betsy, it is for free
to subscribe to on Spotify, Spreaker, and Amazon Music to
name just a few. And as I always say at
the end of my show, in a world where you
could be anything, please be kind and shine your life
bright because we need it now more than ever before.
(58:36):
This is Betsy Worzel. You're a host of Chatting with Betsy.
I'm Pastiate World Talk Radio Network. Thank you for listening.
Bye bye now
Hello, everyone, this is Betsy Worzel. You're a host of
Chatting with Betsy. I'm Passion World Talk Radio Network, a
subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC our a manstriance to
educate and enlighten and enterteam. The views of the guest
may not represent those of the hosts the station.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Folks.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
This show in particular, I am going to do a
disclaimer that if you have any mental health issue that
you're concerned about, if you take SSRIs that we will
be discussing, please consult your physician whose care you are under.
(00:43):
Do not stop taking any medication. Always, always consult your doctor,
whether it's your primary care doctor, if you're under care
of a psychiatrist, whoever, you're under the cure, under police,
consult them. Also, this show I Reckon Men for adults
eighteen and above. Due to the subject matter, I wanted
(01:07):
to say that it's not for young children, it's for
adult ears. And with saying that, I want to just say,
as you all know, I'm a mental health advocate. It
is still mad and still Mental Health Awareness Month. And
the name of the book. I'm going to just say
(01:27):
the name of the book first, and I'm going.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
To tell you about the author.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Name of the book is Medication, Mental Illness and Murder
But Really Killed The Cresby Twins by Edward L.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Jones Third.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Now, before you say, oh, that sounds depressing, Oh, I
don't think I want to hear that. You're gonna want
to hear this. This is a story I did not
know about myself. And I'm so glad I read the book.
And I just want to say kudos to ed Jones
for being brave enough to tackle this matter, to write
(02:06):
this book, to address mental health care issues, the criminal
justice system and what's going on. And I am, you know,
very passionate about mental health care issues.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
And I want to tell you.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
About Edward old Jones the third Now Ed has been
an award winning writer in advertising and higher education. During
his ed career, he won more than three hundred and
fifty awards for creativity and his time away from advertising,
Ed served as a community columnist for the Charlotte Observer.
(02:44):
He lives in Winston, Sale and North Carolina area. This
is the first book, and I'll tell you, folks, for
a first book.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
And I'm by no means are credentials to be a
book critit for first book and credible.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I want to see Ed Jones the best international seller.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
This book needs to be told around the world. People
need to read it.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I want to welcome Ed Jones to Jenny with Betty
welcome it.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Thank you, Betty, your words are most kind. I really
appreciate them. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh you are welcome. I have to tell you.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
This book deeply touched me on so many levels for
so many different reasons. And being that I am a
mental health care advocate, I was kind of like, I
don't know about this book, to be honest, and when
I started reading it, I was like, oh my goodness.
I never heard of the Christy situation, the trial. I
(03:49):
never watched the Oprah one free show. I saw clips
of it. Now after I read your book. All right,
as I was reading your book and my heart just
goes out to the Kristy family. I mean, this is
the travesty is an understatement. Could you tell us how
you came upon the story and what motivated you to
(04:12):
write this book, and again, kudos to you for doing it.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
I apployed you.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Thanks so much. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't go looking for
this story. It kind of came looking kind of came
looking for me. And what I mean by that is,
in November of two thousand and five, my wife and
I were just getting to know David and Kim Cresby,
(04:41):
and by around December of the same year two thousand
and five, right around Christmas time, and who had befriended
Kim Cresby more than I had befriended David, and told
me that Kim had told her that David was suffering
(05:03):
from a really bad bout of depression right there around
Christmas time, and my heart immediately went out to him
because by that time I had fought my way through
three bouts of clinical depression, and all of those bouts.
(05:26):
All those bouts happened before the advent of SSRI anti depressions,
probably between nineteen seventy four and eighty one, so I
was able to successfully fight those off and have been
successful ever since. But you know, I told my wife
to tell Kim Cresby tell David that if he needed
(05:49):
somebody to talk to, I would be there yesterday. Because
you know, if any of your listeners have experienced depression,
and they know that depression is agony on every level, mentally, spiritually,
even physically, you know, so you know, so I said, I,
(06:12):
you know, gosh, I really feel for David what he's
going through. I'll be there for him, you know, in
a milliseconds. Well, we got word from Kim that David
had experienced previous episodes of depression and that she and
David felt like he was getting the best clinical care
(06:32):
that he ever had, and so we breathed a sigh
of relief and thought everything was going to be okay.
And then, you know, gosh, three four weeks later, on
January twentieth, two thousand and six, we received a phone
call from a friend named Teresa called my wife, and
(06:56):
I think Teresa almost sort of said, are you sitting down?
And she's a very religious person, but she said to
my wife, you know Dave Dave Cresby. And my wife says, yeah, yeah,
I know, Dave. Dave just did away with his twin daughters, Samantha,
(07:18):
five year old twin daughters. And of course, you know,
we almost fainted hearing that news, and you know, I
almost had a form of survivor guilt there for a
while after after we heard about that. But so what
happened was on the morning of, like around the mid
(07:44):
afternoon of January twenty two thousand and six, David was
home on medical leave. He's a very successful banker, an
exemplary husband and father, no history of violence, but he
was at home on medical leave and he was with
(08:04):
Kim and the two twin girls, five year old twin girls.
The other three children were away at school. So when
Kim went out to hit a haircut at about twelve five,
the little girls came over to David, who was on
his computer, and asked if he would like to play
(08:27):
a game of hide and seek. And I'm not going
to go into all the horrific details, but he ended
up finding them and stabbing them both to death, and
then then he called nine one one after he'd washed up.
(08:48):
He calls nine one one, and the first thing he
says is I just killed my two daughters. And you
hear the nine one one operator say you just what?
I just killed my two daughters in this kind of
weirdly measured tones, and then a female nine one one
operator cuts in and says, sir, are you on any medication?
(09:09):
He says, yes, what kind of medication? I'm on? Antidepressants.
Later she says, we're just worried that you've taken too
many medications and you know, and that you're disoriented, and
he says, no, no, this is real. And so one
of the interesting things about that is that the the
(09:35):
transcript of that nine one one tape and the recording
of that nine one one tape was not released to
the press nor to the public until almost three months
after David Cresby was sentenced to two consecutive life terms
without the possibility of parole. So, as you can imagine,
(09:58):
I've I've followed, you know, after the tragedy. I followed
the reporting in the Charlotte Observer, and as you said,
I was a community columnist for them for a while.
And what came out was that David was on a
cocktail of different drugs, prescribed drugs, ambient trasit done, and
(10:24):
he had just started prozac seven days before the killings.
And it later came out that he was also on clorithromcin,
which is my doctor told me it's combining clorithromcin and
prozac is a particularly explosive combination. But anyway, so it
(10:48):
kind of went from there. I went to Superior Court
hearing and that's in the book, and maybe we can
talk about that. I've gone on too long.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
Probably sorry, No, I'm not sorry. Please, you know what
I'm going to go. I'm going to start.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
From David Crespy's first marriage because I think it's important, Ed,
I want to bring this out.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
David Crispy was married to another kid.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Right, and his first wife had brain cancer I remember
from the book, and unfortunately she died and he had
two children with her.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Is that correct? But I remembering quickly. Now I just.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Want to say, right then, right here and now, I'd
interviewed male caregivers.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
I am in the caregiving community.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Watching your love one die, We'll make you depressed. And unfortunately,
as you know, in our society, and I hope this changes,
I'm doing my part to help change it. By my show,
men are told to suck it up, be strong, which
(12:07):
is a bunch of nonsense. People stuck telling people to
be strong. I can't even stand on that, and that
needs to change. I get the whole show on that.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
I just want to say that I believe in my
own opinion that David probably started then unless he had
depression before, because he probably felt I can imagine from
what I hear from other male caregivers. As a man,
you think you could fix it. You should have fixed it,
(12:39):
you could have made it better. Know, there's things you
can't make better in life. Unfortunately, then having to deal
with the grieving and having two young children, I can't
even imagine. I mean, I lost my spouse, I know it,
that's fight, but to have young children and I know
that when my husband was dying, people have the audacity
(13:04):
to tell my son and I be strong.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yes, that's so.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
That just it's not a proper thing to say, folks,
because people are strong and men are strong. But just
because someone cries and seeks mental health support does not
make them weak. That's right, And I'm very strong about that.
(13:32):
I get very emotional about that because it just is
so wrong, the stigma and what society places on men
and young boys.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
And I hope that changes.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
We need to have an environment where boys can voice
their their feelings in the constructive manner. But I digrass,
I want to bring that out.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's that's that's a great that's a great point. Yes,
you know, I've heard very various theories about what can
cause depression, and I've I've heard kind of suppressing anger
can be an element I think. I think you're right,
grieving can can plant the seeds and and I think
(14:22):
part of grieving is anger about what's happened to among one.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
And so no that I'm behind you one hundred percent
of what you just said.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yes, and if David didn't get counseling, because how could
he with his job and taking care of two children,
plus it's frowned upon. Yeah, you get depressed. I mean,
let's face it, who wouldn't it be depressed when their
south dies? Everyone is yes, And grieving actually, you know,
(14:59):
does change your your brain.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
It's called the grieving brain.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
But I just wanted to address that because as soon
as I read that in this book, in your book,
and I was thinking, this poor man probably started then, well,
probably when his wife got diagnosed. Actually, and just the course,
(15:24):
because David Crespy, as you said, was a great father.
He started a scholarship in honor of his first wife,
a nursing scholarship. He was very successful.
Speaker 2 (15:39):
In his field.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Why was this job again, to know what to do
with the bank bank something with the financial.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, So I'm glad you mentioned this timeframe.
So by the time he was twenty nine. He was
the uh CFO of Sacramento's Savings Bank. He was the
youngest CFO in the history of that savings bank, which
had had a I think it was one hundred years
(16:12):
old or so. And you know, he went to UH
an arm of the University of California there in Sacramento,
had a perfect four point oh grade point average, and
then when he took the CTA exam, he he scored
in the top five in the country that year. So
(16:36):
uh he was he was quite quite a star in
the financial world. By the time he got to Charlotte
where the these horrible events happened. He was working for Jacovia,
which has been renamed swallowed Up. But he was in
charge of compliance there and that was one of the
(17:00):
stressors that was going on at the time of the tragedy.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I know.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
That with medications, and I actually I know this for
a fact that from my own personal experience. I was
on antidepressants. But I know that and taking medication, some
people are very sensitive. I'm very sensitive medication. There's a
side effect that they had, I'll get it. But a
(17:30):
lot of these ssries and some of these anti depressants,
they are black box.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Now. I know David was young man.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
But they are black box for those that are sixty
five and older. And even if you have side effects,
you pull up your doctor a lot or talking to
them in person a lot of times they don't believe you.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I mean, that's a whole nother showing of.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Itself of Also, I just want to tell people, you've
got to be your own advocate.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
You have to.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
You see your loved one who can't speak up for themselves,
or you yourself, your children are having side effects, call
them up and insist that they listen to you because
they kind of shoeshoe you off. And have your proof,
do your research and be your advocate.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
I digress. I don't understand it.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
No, that's right, yeah, you know, just just to add
to what you're saying about the importance of that and
being aware of side effects. You know. The first two
sentences in my prologue are these, This is a true
story about a terrible family tragedy, A tragedy made more
(18:58):
terrible by how preventable it was. What do I mean
by that? Fifteen hours before David Cresby killed his utterly innocent,
defenseless little girls, he and his entire family was playing
a board game in their kitchen, and that included the twins.
(19:20):
They were playing the game with everybody, and the whole
family noticed this odd behavior. He was walking very spacious house.
He was walking strangely erratically around the various rooms in
the house, into the library, into the dining room, into
(19:42):
the living room, and then coming back and then doing
the whole circuit again. And then Kim that later that
evening he was erratically jumping in and out of their bed,
and she recently told me that they had this square
rugged beside their bed and he was doing the strange
(20:03):
thing of going from you know, almost obsessively, going from
corner to corner to corner of of of that rug.
And what that was was that was a that should
have been a glaring. It should have been like alarm
bell should have been going off, because what David was
(20:24):
evincing was a side effect called akathesia. Akathesia is a
Greek word which basically means the inability to sit still,
and what it signals is that the body, the brain
is going into toxicity and that the person experiencing that
(20:47):
is in grave danger of harming himself or others. And
if the Crispy family had known about that, those perhaps
those little girls would still be alive today. Why did
they not know that? Because for decades the big pharmaceutical
(21:08):
companies that make this, that make these drugs, suppressed clinical
trial data that showed this side effect in a significant
number of trial patients. And here's an example that just
(21:29):
that drives me crazy. So Prozac was introduced, and that
was the first SSRI antidepressant introduced to the world, really
in America. But that was nineteen eighty seven. Now here
is and of course all these companies were sort of
(21:49):
doing these clinical trials in the run ups to when
they finally marketed these various SSRI antidepressants. This involves Zoloft
and Pheiser. So check this out. In nineteen eighty three,
this is four years before any SSRI was approved market
(22:10):
for the market in the US. In nineteen eighty three,
nine years before the launch of Zoloft in the United States,
twenty one years before the FDA required Pfizer to put
a black box warning on it. Piser had done a
healthy volunteer trial on Zoloft in the United Kingdom. They
(22:30):
recruited twelve women for this trial. Half of them were
to be given zoloft. The other half were given a placebo.
The trial was due to run for two weeks, but
it was stopped after one week because every single woman
taking zoloft had become anxious, apprehensive, agitated, in other words,
(22:53):
showing signs of akathedia. One or two had begun to
voice thoughts about harming others. These were previously healthy women.
One or two had begun to voice thoughts about harming others.
All of the other things that led the FDA to
put a black box warning on this drug twenty one
years later were there in nineteen eighty three.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Wow, what what ad piser do?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
They buried all of that.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
But there's a there's a a wonderful jew doctor named
doctor David Healy who has whose work I cite in
the book, who was able to get hold of all
that data and dig into it and find out these things.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Well, that just is mind boggling.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
And you know in your book you also have like
little side stories of people who were on various medications
who did violent acts. And now when I hear about
a violent act, I wonder were they on something. That's
the first thing I think I asked, Because you know
(24:06):
when you hear these commercials for these various medications and you're.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Like, well, who the heck wants to take it?
Speaker 1 (24:15):
If you're already or depressed, maybe you could be suicidal,
and then it can make you have more ideation of suicide.
I mean, I'm glad I never took medication and I
didn't take that. But can you tell the what it's?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
What is it SSRRI?
Speaker 3 (24:41):
Yeah. S SRI is an acronym for selective serotonin re
uptake inhibitor, and those drugs are based on a theory
that if through these drugs, you elevate the level of
(25:05):
a neurotransmitter called serotonin in the brain, if you kind
of elevate the presence of that in the brain, somehow,
that is a silver bullet to you know, to basically
cure the depression in a way, you know. And yeah,
(25:28):
it's and you know, as I say, and you know
at first that that probably seemed like a good a
good theory because you know, as I as I revealing
in the book, the first generation of antidepressants came about
(25:51):
by accident. A group of chemists set out in about
nineteen fifty five or so to uh try to find
a chemical compound that was capable of wiping out the
bacterium associated with tuberculosis. So they finally found they finally
(26:15):
found what they thought was was something that could that
that could do that, and ironically it was it was
stockpiled not see rocket fuel fuel, that fuel that had
been used to uh, you know, to propel Nazi rockets
(26:37):
in World War Two.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
So that sounds gross to take.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, yeah, Well, so what what happened was so they
brought this these chemicals back to a lab in New
Jersey and they derived a couple of a couple of
different uh molecules or chemical compounds. One of them was
called like a Prian AzID. I think it's this is
(27:07):
in the book. It's in a chapter called a History
of Antidepressants. So they tested the you know, what they
thought was going to be a cure for tuberculosis on
some patients who were in a hospital, sanatorium or whatever
in Staten Island, And what they found was the patients
(27:33):
were still coughing up blood, but some of them were
coming out into the carts and sort of dancing, you know,
and so they seemed happier than ever ever before as
they were as they were dying from their tuberculosis. Well,
so what happened was the scientists had this theory that
(28:00):
that led to mono amine, the first generation of antidepressants,
mono amine inhibitors, and and and at that time they
thought three the three neurotransmitters that that were helping to
solve depression were dopamine, serotonin, and one other neo nephrine
(28:26):
or something like that. Sorry about I don't have that
right in.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Front of that.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
But so that but that first generation of you know,
the monoamine inhibitors ended up having terrible side effects, you know,
terrible liver damage, causing hypertension. And so what what happened
was some there was a group of chemists associated with
(28:55):
Eli Lilly that went ahead and they based the future
drugs on it's got to be serotonin that we need
to isolate on and maybe that will you know, eliminate
these physical side effects. And so that's that's kind of
a long winded thing, but that's how it all came about.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Well, I just you know, I know friend that I
went to high school with her daughter. I had asked
her if they're reading your book, I asked her what
medications her daughter was on, and she wasn't sure if
she knew she took ambient and unfortunately her daughter committed suicide.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Ugh, how horrible.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
And yes, and I talked to my psychologist about your
book and about akathesia.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Is that how you pronounced it?
Speaker 1 (29:54):
And gus asia and he said yes, he says you
have to watch someone for that.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
When someone goes on.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
Medication, they you can't just say okay, see in four weeks.
They have to be monitored. Was David Christy monitored weekly
by his doctor?
Speaker 3 (30:14):
Do you know he he was? You know he was,
you know, the day before the killings, he had been
in a session, in a session with Kim right there
with his with his therapists. Yes. And you know you
(30:35):
mentioned the the Oprah Winfrey show. You know, she really
seized on Miss Winfrey really seized on the fact that
David later admitted he was having these dark thoughts, but
that in that session the day before the killings, he
didn't share those those dark intrusive thoughts about harming his
(30:59):
family and and and you know that that was kind
of mss Winfrey's premise about like, you know, she comes
at the end of the of the hour long show,
she says, you know, here here's the lesson of all this.
If he had just you know, shared his dark thoughts
(31:20):
those two little girls and they could have changed the
medication quote unquote, and those two little girls might be
alive today. And I would I would like to if
I could talk about Yeah, you mentioned you mentioned some
some other cases from around the world, and this is
(31:40):
this is one I think it's important for listeners to
hear about. So this is this occurred in Australia. And
here's how this story goes. On August the first, nineteen
ninety nine, seventy four year old Australian David Hawkins, another David,
a model citizen with no prior history of violence, attacked
(32:02):
his sixty eight year old wife, strangling her to death.
He immediately called Australia's equivalent of nine to one one
and the call was recorded. Here's the first thing he said,
I have killed my wife. How eerily similar does that sound?
I got tablets from the doctor yesterday and I think
(32:23):
they were too strong. I went absolutely wild. I don't know,
I have got to go. I'm heading out and I'm
going to get rid of myself. Nobody, nobody can help me.
Now I'm shaking here. I can't wait, I can't stop.
So the tablets quote unquote tablets David Hawkins had taken
were Zoloft. When he hung up, Hawkins attempted to asphyxiate
(32:44):
himself with carbon monoxide from his car. He stopped because
he was worried about the effect that two deaths would
have on his daughter. Hawkins was charged with murder. At
the trial, the judge accepted a defense of automatism, meaning
that Halkins wasn't responsible for his actions. Here's what the
Supreme Court judge of this Australian court said, quote, but
(33:09):
for the Zoloft which he took on the morning of
August the one, nineteen ninety nine, it is overwhelmingly probable
that missus Hawkins would not have been killed on that morning. Okay,
so this is this The last part is germane to
what we were just talking about. Before this. The Supreme
Court quoted quote evidence from the Department of Health and
(33:32):
Age Care of five hundred and ten Australian patients on
zoloft who reacted badly, wrote a couple of reporters. The
world's leading expert of zoloft, doctor David Healy, of the
University of Wales College of Medicine claims the five hundred
and ten figures undoubtedly wrong and that between five thy
one hundred and fifty one thousand patients affected adversely would
(33:56):
be realistic. The truth, he says, can never be known.
This is very important about the Cresby case too. The truth,
he says, can never be known because patients keep their
feelings to themselves, fearing what will happen, Fearing what will
happen if they reveal murderous thoughts. He's saying this in
nineteen ninety nine, eight years before the Cresby or seven
(34:19):
years before the Cresby tragedy. Let let me repeat that.
The truth, he says, can never be known because patients
keep feelings to themselves, fearing what will happen if they
reveal murder's thoughts. Imagine that you are taking Zola off
and you start to have feelings that you want to
murder your children. Heally said, how can you speak about
it if you think that you might get locked up? Yeah,
(34:45):
you know.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
That's true, and I would never would have thought about that.
But as hard enough as you know ed for people
to say I'm depressed, unsuicidal, right, that's hard enough to
omit to so saying that you are having homicidal thoughts,
that is a whole different.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Ballgame. I mean it would really.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
They would lock I would think they would lock you
up or at least put you somewhere in minor to you,
you know.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
To get a right mixture of medication.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
And you know, medications is trial and error and everyone's
body is different. But why is And you gave a
case of which I found very interesting from Canada, David
Carmichael and the difference with the justice system, and that's
a health system between you know, other countries in the
(35:44):
United States.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
It seems like the United States is kind of behind.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
David has become a friend and uh and I feature
his cautionary tale and what he's been doing around the
world in two chapters called a Tale of Two Countries.
And yeah, I used his story to compare and contrast
what happened, you know, with the David Cresby case. So
(36:13):
David Carmichael, like David Cresby DC Initials, was an actually
actually a nationally known fitness expert, and he appeared on
television talking about this this program that he was the
director of called ParticipACTION, which was an attempt to get
(36:36):
Canadians to exercise more and you know, help them have
better mental and physical health. And the Canadian government cut
the five million dollars that funded that program. Sounds kind
of familiar these days, right, Yeah, they cut the program
(36:56):
and David became distressed, and it was dying knows as
being depressed. I'll try to get through this fairly quickly.
But he he ended up while he was in a
paxel induced by kosis. He strangled his beloved eleven year
old son Ian to death in a hotel room and
(37:20):
called nine to one one the next morning, et cetera.
The difference between what happened to David Carmichael and David Cresby.
In the Carmichael case, you know, he was tried for
a first first degree murder. He was found not criminally
(37:42):
responsible for his actions. He was sent to a mental
health facility in Ottawa. Brockton I think was the name
of the facility, and he there he actually received pretty
one wonderful mental health care. His his wife and his
(38:05):
surviving daughter, who had forgiven him almost immediately because they
knew that the drugs had caused the tragedy, could visit
him almost any time they could walk on the grounds
with him, and after about two years of treatment, he
was able to go back and live with his his
(38:26):
wife and surviving daughter. And you could imagine the stigma,
uh that has that has haunted him ever since. So,
you know, nobody, nobody's even in you know, civilized forgiving Canada.
Basically nobody was willing has been willing to hire him.
(38:47):
But he has found a way to get spons donations
and to go around the world and tell his cautionary
tale and try to and try to save lives and
and you know, and we can talk more about one
of those efforts because it involves children and adolescents, which
(39:10):
I think is an important thing to talk about.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Oh, definitely, yes.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
I can't even imagine the trauma that these families have faced.
You know, how do you other children react that your neighbors,
your community, you know they must be you know, some
might support.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Some might shun them. Uh.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Financially, the stress of you know, going to jail and
the lack of income because you know they lived.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
In a well to do area.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
He you know, was very financially successful, and how do
you go from that to being no income. It's just
a lot in the and living with David Cresby, living
with the fact that he killed his beautiful daughters, Tess,
Sarah and Samantha. I'll tell you why. It takes a
(40:12):
special type of woman, I think a person to forgive
that that happened. I mean, I don't know if I could,
to be honest with you.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Absolutely yes, yes, so I have I have this, Uh
have this in the book. In the superior court hearing
in Charlotte about the Crespy case, right towards the end,
Kim Cresby, uh, you know, asked to take the stand,
(40:44):
and the defense lawyer, Jim Cooney, you know, questioned her
and and towards the end his question was, Kim, do
you still love David? And she said, very haunting words, yes,
of course I do. You don't stop loving somebody because
(41:05):
they're sick. True, and you know, as as people will
find out when they read the book Kim. In about
twenty fifteen, she was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease, which I
think probably was dropped, could have been brought on by trauma, grief.
(41:28):
Its no history of Parkinson's in her family, and now
she is suffering from advanced Parkinson's disease. To the point
where she needs twenty four to seven care. You know,
she can't even I've gone to visit her, and you know,
she's lost control of her neck muscles. So there has
(41:50):
to be a healthcare provider kind of behind her when
she's in a chair to lift her head up so
she can look at you eye to eye. And she's
really my hero. She has never really cursed the face.
You know, she she chooses to light a candle instead
of cursing the darkness. And you know, she's she's a
(42:13):
woman of profound faith. And I will say that, you know,
I did a book signing event in Charlotte about a
month or so ago, and she came to that event.
It was it was standing room only, and she's been
(42:33):
so lifted up by all of this, and you know,
we just we've got to get to David and restore
some of his hope.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
Yes, that's that's what I got from reading this book,
that Kim is a woman to faith, strengths, grit, determination,
and so heartbreaking to know that, you know, she is
suffering from severe events. Parkinson's how is David Crespy joined?
Speaker 2 (43:08):
What is going on with him at this point?
Speaker 3 (43:11):
He's well, first, first of all, in the last six
months or so, he's been moved uh two two, Uh,
he's been moved to three different prisons. The second one
was kind of a notoriously dangerous one where an inmate
had been stabbed to death. And but he's he's in
(43:36):
a he's in a pretty dark place. They at one prison,
he had he had kind of forged a good as
good a life for for himself as he could. You know,
he'd become an assistant to a chaplain. He had helped inmates,
some of the inmates get there g e d you know,
(43:57):
he was a teacher. Uh. He helped convert a few
fellow inmates to Catholicism, his beloved faiths. And he had
a bunkmate who was one of those people that he
helped convert, and the prison separated the two of them
(44:18):
and then started bringing in more sort of young, more
dangerous criminal convicted criminals into his unit. So soon thereafter
he just started not not calling his wife. You know,
they faithfully called each other at least once a week
all these years, you know, nineteen years, he stopped calling her.
(44:42):
Didn't want to see didn't want to see visitors. You know,
he had he had established, you know, kind of a
pen power relationship with like four hundred different people, one
of whom is General Petraeus, you know who act he stopped.
He stop writing all those letters. So we're trying to
(45:05):
He's in a prison about two hours from me, and
I'm gonna see if I can get in. I used
to be on a list of people that could visit him.
You know, I visited him with with my wife and
Kim twice. Uh, you know, about a year or so
after the tragedy, year and then a year and a
half later. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:27):
And how about the children.
Speaker 3 (45:30):
They they are remarkable that they have. They are all
well adjusted, healthy young adults now, and you know, I
think they're very heartened about what's going on. But you know,
as you can imagine, you know, it's and David Carmichael
(45:54):
will tell you this. You know, every time he has
to get up and tell his his his story, he's
re traumatized by it. So I think all three of
those young adults, you know, they're they're trying to get
on with their life, and of course they're they're constantly worried,
sick about their mom and their dad. And then you know,
so you know that they're they're trying to just look
(46:20):
to the future as much as they can while supporting
their mom and dad as best they can, and and
without getting retraumatized, you know, all the time. So somehow
they found they found a way to do that. And
as far as I know, I don't think any of
them has suffered from depression so far. Knock on wood.
Speaker 2 (46:41):
So yeah, that's more. Yeah, that that is great. What
would you like.
Speaker 1 (46:49):
People to know? It's from your book? What would you
like them to get out of your book?
Speaker 3 (46:57):
Sure? Yes, I've got four things I'd like to leave behind.
Four key messages. A. When patients and their families are
armed with accurate information about medications, lives can be saved better.
(47:19):
Two better, more evidence based options for treating depression are
now available instead of neurotoxic pills. Three, You as a
patient have a legal right to informed consents. That's a
very important issue we could get into sometimes. And and
(47:42):
number four, never give up hope, Never give up hope
that you know. At the end of Oprah Winfrey's hour
long episode on The Crispy Tragedy, she called upon a
forensic psychiatrist named doctor Michael Welner, And you know, kind
(48:06):
of asked him about the depression, and he said that
the key factor that characterizes severe depression is hopelessness, and
he offered some tips to the audience. First, if they
seem to if a loved one seems to be hopeless
(48:26):
about one specific thing, try to get them to focus
on something else that might give them a reason for hope.
Welner said that this was why as a psychiatrist, he
put a good deal of stock in faith and spirituality.
They offer quote, a clear and unobstructed pathway to hope,
he said. Second, never allow a depressed person to isolate,
(48:50):
and don't be hurt if they try to shut you out.
Try to find someone else they can connect with. Finally,
Welner said that perhaps the key lesson he wanted to
impart that you may not hear from anywhere else is
do not rely upon medicine. Doctors will only do so much.
You may set yourself up for disappointment.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
That is Yeah, that is really powerful and strong. I
know ed I barely scratch the surface with your book.
Don't want to give the whole book away either, want
people to buy it.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Where can people purchase your book?
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Medication Mental Illness and murder What Really killed a Krusty Twins?
Speaker 3 (49:34):
Thanks for asking. I would advise that you go to
my website Edward Lee Jones dot com. That's Edward Lee
Jones dot com and there's a tab there that says
buy the book, and there's four different links to various
online places where you can buy the books. Of course,
to Amazon, there's Barnes and Noble, there's my publisher, Roman
(49:55):
and Littlefield and one other that I forget. But whatever
method it's best for you.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
And can people connect with you on your website?
Speaker 3 (50:07):
They can? They can. You know, there's a form that
that's on there and yeah, my son is kind of
monitoring that. But but yeah, if you if you fill
that form out and give me your contact information, I
will get back to you.
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Well. Edward L.
Speaker 1 (50:29):
Jose the third, I can't thank you enough. If you
were standing in front of me, I'd give.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
You a hug. I'll just.
Speaker 1 (50:37):
I think it is so brave of you to not
only write this book, but a tough subject matter that
must be addressed, but for you yourself to admit to
the world that you did have a depression.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
That's not easy to say.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
And I tell people, I tell my audience all the time.
You know, seek support. I talk about I still see
a psychologist. I'm not ashamed to say it because I
feel if I can't, if they hear me, maybe will say, oh,
if Betsy goes.
Speaker 2 (51:10):
In, then I'll go. She's not ashamed of going.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Folks, if you need support there, it's not a sign
of weakness.
Speaker 2 (51:20):
A matter of fact, it's a sign of strength.
Speaker 1 (51:22):
I can't repeat it enough to say I need help,
and it's okay to need help.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
And folks don't judge others.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Don't judge others that they take medication or they are
seeking support because you never.
Speaker 2 (51:36):
Know, well, life is going to throw a you need
to see someone, or you might need to take medication.
You don't know what life has in store for you.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
It's you know, I'm glad I don't suffer from depression anymore.
Speaker 2 (51:53):
I read a book back in the seventies by Tim Lahay.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
He's I don't know if he was a Christian psychologist,
I don't even remember, but he believed that depression with
anger turned inward, which was interesting. Excuse me exactly, but
I would love to have you on again. ED September
(52:22):
is a suicide prevention awareness months, but any time, because
we could talk about medication, We could talk about so
many things. And your book, folks, I would run and
get this book. It does not depressing as you might
think that it sounds. It's a book of hope. It
(52:44):
is will open your eyes to medications. It will open
your eyes and your mind to think, to question your
doctor if you are on medication, and if you have
side effects, to question your doctor. Don't be afraid to
speak up. We must speak up. I had to speak
(53:04):
up for my husband when he was getting side effects.
Of course they didn't believe me, but I have a
big mouth, so I did prove my point. I'm not
afraid because.
Speaker 2 (53:21):
Waves.
Speaker 1 (53:22):
I'll close the tsunami if I have to to get
my point across.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
And I just really thank you Edward L.
Speaker 1 (53:32):
Jones third for coming on my show and just writing
this awesome book.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
This is your first book.
Speaker 1 (53:42):
What do you give a book in mind for for
the next one?
Speaker 3 (53:47):
Uh? Not yet, not yet. I'm toying with a h
with a screenplay or two. Wow, I'm hoping kind of.
One of my next steps is I'm hoping that we
could convince a producer somewhere to do a Netflix style
(54:10):
docu series based on this book. I think that would
be ye powerful.
Speaker 1 (54:14):
Oh absolutely, I hope that comes through for you. Absolutely,
And if by any chance you let me know and
you can come to my show and promote it whatever
you do, and you want to come back in my
show and promote whatever you're doing screenplay, you just let
me know because I would be more than happy to
promote whatever you do.
Speaker 3 (54:36):
And love to do.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
I just you know, I want to say I best wishes.
I hope this book becomes that international bestseller. I want
the world to know about David Cresty and his family
and what they went through. And it's a tragedy because
it could have been prevented if they know about side effects.
(54:59):
And really, I hope that's changed, and you're right, ask
about the side effects, get the informed consent. You can
always ask your pharmacy.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
It's always comes in with the medication. Read it and.
Speaker 1 (55:17):
You know, read the side effects, and you know, we
have to be our own advocates.
Speaker 2 (55:22):
That's it. I talk about that all the time.
Speaker 1 (55:25):
Educate yourself and be an advocate for yourself and your family.
You don't have to have a big map like me
to tell and tell in the world. But you can
do what you do in your own corner for your
own family and yourself, and it's so important and I
(55:45):
really would be honored to have you on again.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
There's a multitude we could.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Discuss, and thank you again Edward for coming on and
all the information folks about the book and Edward L.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
Jones.
Speaker 1 (56:01):
The thirty will be in the blag that Genie White,
the station manager rates and think Genie, and I want
to thank Leman Caldwell, who's CEO makes us all possible.
Pastora will to a greading network. I want to think,
let's Sa Warren, who is president of Lisa Lissa Warren
p R. Who introduced me to this book and to
(56:25):
Edward Jones, phenomenal PR person uhlet's say, is the best
in her field as far as I'm concerned. And so
if you're looking for a publicist, I'm gonna have uh
Listen of information and the black also, So I'm going
to shout out to uh Lista because a lot of her,
(56:45):
a lot of her clients are a big part of
chatting with Betsy and ever so grateful and folks, I
just want to say this, don't judge people of what
they're going through I know I said it before. You
are not alone. There are resources out there. I am
(57:05):
That's what I do my show for. I want people
to know the resources for you to have a better
life as you are in a crisis called nine to
eighty eight in the United States, seek your primary care
physician for mental health references in your area. And let's
stop the stigma of mental health. I'm glad it's less
(57:28):
stigmatized now than it was in the seventies, and I'm
glad about that, but we need to change our way
of thinking. And please, for the love of all that
is God, please stop telling people to be strong.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
It doesn't help folks. It's hurtful. Actually, it's actually hurtful.
It's not helpful.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
Please stop saying that you know what you should say. Instead,
I'm going to tell you say I'm here for you.
How can I help you? Or just listen, Just be
a shoulder or an ear. That's what people need and
you know, and to give them hope. And I want
to thank everyone for listening. If you don't want to
(58:16):
really subscribe to Chatting with Betsy, it is for free
to subscribe to on Spotify, Spreaker, and Amazon Music to
name just a few. And as I always say at
the end of my show, in a world where you
could be anything, please be kind and shine your life
bright because we need it now more than ever before.
(58:36):
This is Betsy Worzel. You're a host of Chatting with Betsy.
I'm Pastiate World Talk Radio Network. Thank you for listening.
Bye bye now
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