September 22, 2025 • 55 mins
Betsy Wurzel talks with Edward L. Jones III about Mental Illness and Medication—cover-ups, stigma, and why open conversations with loved ones matter.
In this episode of Chatting with Betsy, host Betsy Wurzel welcomes back returning guest Edward L. Jones III for an important discussion on Mental Illness and Medication. Together, Betsy and Ed explore:
Ed shares excerpts from his powerful book, highlighting how misinformation and lack of informed consent can have devastating consequences. He also reminds listeners of the importance of compassion, breaking stigma, and seeking professional guidance when facing mental health concerns [Insert Episode Link]
🙌 About the Guest
Edward L. Jones III is an award-winning advertising and higher education writer, former Charlotte Observer columnist, and mental health advocate. His book, Medication, Mental Illness, and Murder: What Really Killed the Crespi Twins, donates 80% of proceeds to the Kim Crespi Trust Fund, supporting Kim as she lives with advanced Parkinson’s Disease.
🔗 Learn more: edwardleejones.com
📚 Recommended: Visit Mad in America for trusted mental health discussions 📞 Need Help?
If you or someone you know is in crisis, please dial or text 988 in the U.S. for immediate support.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
🎙 Passionate World Talk Radio Network LLC — Where real conversations matter.
📧 Contact us: pwrtalknetwork@gmail.com
🌐 Visit: www.passionateworldtalkradio.com
📲 Follow & share with #PWTRN
In this episode of Chatting with Betsy, host Betsy Wurzel welcomes back returning guest Edward L. Jones III for an important discussion on Mental Illness and Medication. Together, Betsy and Ed explore:
- The realities of depression and personal experiences with treatment
- Cover-ups from Big Pharma around medications like Paxil
- Rising suicide rates—especially among young girls
- Why open communication and advocacy at home are essential
Ed shares excerpts from his powerful book, highlighting how misinformation and lack of informed consent can have devastating consequences. He also reminds listeners of the importance of compassion, breaking stigma, and seeking professional guidance when facing mental health concerns [Insert Episode Link]
🙌 About the Guest
Edward L. Jones III is an award-winning advertising and higher education writer, former Charlotte Observer columnist, and mental health advocate. His book, Medication, Mental Illness, and Murder: What Really Killed the Crespi Twins, donates 80% of proceeds to the Kim Crespi Trust Fund, supporting Kim as she lives with advanced Parkinson’s Disease.
🔗 Learn more: edwardleejones.com
📚 Recommended: Visit Mad in America for trusted mental health discussions 📞 Need Help?
If you or someone you know is in crisis, please dial or text 988 in the U.S. for immediate support.
- Please consult your Primary Care Physician for any mental health concerns and referrals in your area.
- Always consult your Physician before making decisions about medications.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
🎙 Passionate World Talk Radio Network LLC — Where real conversations matter.
📧 Contact us: pwrtalknetwork@gmail.com
🌐 Visit: www.passionateworldtalkradio.com
📲 Follow & share with #PWTRN
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everyone, this is Betsy Worsal. You're a host of
Chatting with Betsy, a passion World Talk Radio Network, a
subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC, and we're amonstirous to educate, enlighten,
and entertain. The views of the guest may not represent
those of the hosts of the station. Folks, I'm going
(00:22):
to do a disclaimer before I bring my guests on
this month the Suicide Prevention Months, and my guest today
is going to talk about We're going to talk about
suicide prevention. We're going to talk about medications. People are
afraid to talk about it here and Chatting with Betsy,
I'm not afraid to talk about anything. You want to
(00:42):
hear a show about topics that are controversial, This I'm
your girl because I will tackle any topic and I've
had for the past six years. And I just want
to tell the audience, please console your primary time physician
for any mental health care concerns. For referrals in your area,
(01:07):
Please discuss any medication concerns with your primary care doctor.
They can talk to you. We're not doctors. We are
just gonna have a discussion about it and medication works
for you. That's fine, that's great, But if you have
(01:28):
any concerns, please consult your primary care physician, and if
you are having any crisis at all, please call the
Suicide Hotline ninety eight eight. And folks, I'm so honored
to have with me again. Ed Jones. Edward Jones Third,
(01:49):
he was back in May and we talked about his book.
He is author and writer of Medication, Mental Illness and
Murder What Really Killed the Krusty Twins? Folks, this book
for Edward's first book. I give kudos to L. Jones
(02:12):
the Third for tackling this tough subject, not an easy
subject to talk about, and it is a eye opening book.
I highly recommend it. I feel like everyone needs to
read it, and there's a lot of information in this book.
It's very heart touching and really I can't recommend it enough.
(02:37):
But I was going to tell you a little bit
about Edward L. Jones. If you missed that show, you
could go on Amazon and you can look that show up.
But Edward L. Jones the Third, he was a very
creative advertising and the world of advertising. He won many
(03:02):
many awards and worked for the Charlotte Talk Observers as
a community columnist and She also worked in the higher
education doing a work for several colleges and his copywriting
(03:25):
work as a featured in several college textbooks. I highly
recommend you looking up Edward Jones the Third and I
want to welcome to Jetting with Petsy again, Edward Jones
the Third. Welcome Edward.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Thank you, Betsy. It's an honor and a privilege to
have this opportunity to talk with you again. Thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Oh you are welcome, and it is my pleasure. I
folks back in May when I did interview, and I
tell you got to come back in September, and we're
going to just to give a little bit of background.
I'll have Edward to talk about the book. In the background.
(04:15):
We need to talk about mental health and it's been
the stigma. And the one thing I'm grateful for COVID
is that it brought out mental health and it wasn't
so stigmatized to go for mental health. And I've said
this on my show many times and I'm going to
(04:36):
keep saying it, and so I can't talk anymore. We
as a society need to change how we raise our boys,
and I can't stress that enough. We need to be
able to have our boys, our sons and nephews, whatever
they are to you, be able to express their emotions
(04:57):
in a comforting and vironment, in the supportive environment. And
I just have to throw this out to the audience.
As you were a parent or guardian and you see
your children struggling or they come to you and they
say they are struggling, they are anxious, they're depressed. Please
don't think it's just a stage. Please don't think they're
(05:19):
just gonna snap out of it. Take them for help.
There's help out there. And I really encourage that because
I was depressed as a child, and you know, I
wasn't talked about in the sixties or seventies, but I
want to walk in New again. Of course, got on
a tangent there.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
That's an important thing. That is an important thing to say. Yeah,
our family had a friend who was a Jesuit priest
and he one time said, I think to the congregation,
he said, if you want to make a young boy
or young adolescent sick, tell him not to cry. You know.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Oh I like that. Yeah, well that's good. Yeah, that's
a good one. And yes, that's what we were told.
I'm going to be sixty eight guys willing in December.
Yes and boys, we were told don't cry. Crying is
a weakness, it's not right, it is I'm not uh itself. Yes,
(06:32):
it is uh healthy, and I encourage it, I really do.
I'm going to go on another tangent here and forgive
me when it really made me mad when my husband
was dying and people would tell us to be strong,
(06:55):
or they would tell Josh be strong for your mom. No,
I said that. I'm a Jersey girl, and I will
tell you like this straight up, do not. I just
don't ever say that to Josh again. He has the
right to cry. His father's dying, my husband's dying. We've
been strong, and there is nothing weak about crying. We're
(07:19):
human beings, not robots. And we're as a society we're
not taught about grieving. And I'll let you talk about
your buck my two tangents go ahead, sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah. The first two lines in my prologue are these.
It says, this is a true story about a terrible
family tragedy, a tragedy made more terrible by how presentable
it was. So that's a big theme in the book.
(08:04):
And what do I mean by preventable. In the case
of David Cresby, who I was just becoming friends with
before this terrible tragedy happened. Approximately sixteen hours before David
killed his precious twin girls, five year old twin girls,
he was playing a board game with his family in
(08:26):
their very spacious house. He's a very successful banker, and
so you know, he had five children at the time,
including the two twins. All five of those children were
playing the board game with him, as was his wife,
Kim Cresby, and they noticed that David was casing almost
(08:47):
sort of manically around the house, going into the dining room,
circling the table, going into the den, and then coming
back and then doing it all again, saying some weird things,
and then him said that later that evening, David was
erratically jumping in and out of the bed and going
(09:09):
around the four corners of the rug that was beside
the bed in this very strange way. Well, what that
was was it was a clear sign, or it should
have been a clear sign, that David was having a
side effect of an SSRI andidepressant called akathesia. Akathesia means
(09:36):
in Greek. It means the inability to sit still. And
what it is is a signal that the mind and
the body are going into toxicity and that the person
who is doing this is in grave danger of harming
himself or others. And the prespies, of course, this was
two thousand and six. They had never heard of this effect.
(10:02):
And why hadn't they heard of that side effect because
the pharmaceutical companies for years, who were aware of this
potential lethal side effects, buried the clinical trial results mountains
of it that suggested that this this was just one
of the adverse side effects. So that's kind of you
(10:26):
know that that's just part of the book. But yeah,
it's uh and and you know, of course it's just
had devastating effects on Kim Cresby's health and all sorts
of sorts of other repercussions.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yes, and they were told about the side effect. You're right,
this could have been this horrible, horrible tragedy could have
been prevented. And thanks to this book that you bravely
wrote a word. And you know, I can't give enough
kudos to Edward L. Jones for writing this book, which
(11:08):
in my opinion, should be an international bestseller that in
my opinion, folks that when people go on these rampages,
I now think were they taking certain medications, Were they
taking a certain cocktail of medications? Yes, because you give
(11:28):
many stories in your book about people who had violent
rampages and they were on a cocktail of medications. And
you know, folks, you can hear on TV. I don't
know if they had us in other countries, but here
in the US they do commercials. They save the side effects.
(11:53):
So in a lot of these medications, they'll say that
it can cause suicidal thoughts. Now you're taking medication, an antidepressant,
because you're depressed, maybe you did have suisidal thoughts. I would, personally,
I'd be scared to take it. I've never taken antidepressant.
(12:16):
I was able to just get over my depression through therapy.
But unfortunate, not everybody can do that. They need medication.
And that's fine. I'm not saying don't take medication. Just
be careful, consult with your doctor. Yes, I think you
(12:37):
would agree, Edward, that you know, to be your own
advocate or for your loved one, you have to be knowledgeable.
Research these medications for yourself before you take them, ask
questions and if you see side effects, call the doctor's
(12:58):
office immediately and that they said, no, that can't be.
Arg you with them, because yes it can be. So
you have to have the knowledge.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
That that's exactly right, and you are correct that you
do hear about the side effect of suicidality on the
air now. But you know, I've got a chapter in
my book called a History of Antidepressants, and part of
it chronicles how much the pharmaceutical giants and the FDA
(13:38):
dragged their feet about revealing that particular side effect. And
if I could say, I mean really and truly, I
would say, the pharmaceutical giants and the FDA have a
disgraceful history of not properly warning Americans about the potential
suicide risks of taking antidepressants. And if you would, if
(14:03):
you would oblige me, I would like to read a
passage about that history.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, go ahead, and yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
On September twenty one, nineteen ninety one. You know, the
first SSRI Prozac came out in nineteen eighty seven, so
this is nineteen ninety one. On September twenty first, nineteen
ninety one, the FDA held a hearing about the possible
link between prozac suicidality and violence, including homicides. By nineteen
(14:39):
ninety one, the FDA had received more than fourteen thousand
adverse event reports linked to prozac, including five hundred suicides.
During the hearing, witness after witness got up, walked up
to a microphone and told a heartrending story about the
(14:59):
irreversible devastation that Prozac had unleashed on them and their
family members. Here are just two examples. This one was
from a woman named Susan Williams. She said, my sister
did commit suicide in front of Lindsey, her daughter. Another
woman at this hearing today spoke of hollow point bullets.
(15:20):
That's what my sister used. My sister never would have
killed herself in front of this little girl. She would
never have done that. Prozac. Prozac induced her to do that.
Then a gentleman named David Moneymaker stood up and said,
I had two sons, David Lee age eight and Billie sixteen,
(15:40):
a wife of twenty years. But that's all gone. I'll
tell you why. After being on prozac for twenty one days,
my wife shot and killed both of those boys. She
turned the gun to herself and shot herself twice. Now
she's in jail for murder. This is what makes my
blood boil. That's the Okay. At the end of the hearing,
(16:04):
after listening to one passionately told story after another, the
chairman of the FDA committee, Daniel Casey, dispassionately read from
this prepared statement. I do not find from the evidence
today that there is credible evidence to support a conclusion
that antidepressants caused the emergence nor the intensification of suicidality
(16:29):
and or other violent behaviors. He said that with complete calm.
And so another important thing for your listeners to know
is that in the UK, by two thousand and four,
the British government had virtually banned SSRIs for children and
(16:53):
young adults in the light of real risk for suicide
and violence. In America, the FDA remained unconvinced and demanded
more studies. Okay, so, and now, if you don't mind,
(17:15):
later in this chapter on the history of antidepressants, I
paint a picture of and this is December of two
thousand and six, Doctor Joseph Glenn Mullen stood in front
of an FDA advisory panel on antidepressants and a packed
audience of lay people to testify this is two thousand
(17:36):
and six now that it was pastime that the FDA
issue a black box warning across all age groups that
antidepressants cause suicidality. I'll quickly try to tell you what
he said. The first thing he said is he said,
right to the FDA panel's face, the data that the
(17:59):
FDA is looking today is flawed, as the FDA well knows.
Although the FDA has known about this side effect suicidality
since nineteen ninety, it has never insisted that a pharmaceutical
company studied the phenomenon with sensitive measures of treatment emergence suicidality.
(18:19):
On September twentieth, nineteen ninety one, he's referring to the
you know, the earlier panel the FDA held a hearing
just like today's and swept this issue under the carpet.
At the time, the FDA and ELI Lilly agreed that
Lily would do the gold standard research. Lily developed the
protocol for the research, including scales of treatment emergent suicidality.
(18:42):
Yet Lily never did the research, and the FDA still
hasn't gotten the gold standard research done. Especially since the
FDA has not done the gold standard research. You must
extend the warning to all age groups. Warning patients does
not scare them away. It allows them to make informed
choices and save lives. Think of how many families and
(19:06):
communities have been devastated by the side effect in those
fifteen years. Do the right thing today and extend the
black box warning to all age groups. If you do
anything less than that, once again, the FDA has failed
to protect the American public and American patients. Thank you, miss.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Great Wow it is that made my blood boil too
when I read your book, and folks, that chapter is
so full of information that is extremely important for the
public to know. When I tell you, it's eye opening, folks,
(19:48):
it is eye opening. That's why you know you need
to take medication. There's nothing wrong with that. We're not
saying don't take it. We're not saying that it's wrong
to take it. Let me make that clear. You need
to know the side effects. That's what Edward's trying to
say in his book. And now be informed. Be an
(20:11):
informed consumer. Don't you want you buy a car, you
want to know what the safety rating is on the car.
Don't you want to know how many miles you get
from a car? Well, and you ask questions before you
buy a car, ask questions before you take medication. And
I'll tell you something. I'll tell you my you know,
my own wife. A doctor recommended me to take this medication.
(20:36):
I won't say the name for my cholesterol gets an injection.
I got the grant for it. Hey didn't tell me
all the side effects. I got the medication, and I'm
reading the information that it comes with the medication, and
I said to my son, I said, I can't take this.
(20:57):
I said, my gut is telling me not to take
this medication. He didn't tell me all the side effects,
and I can't take anything that's going to make me
feel worse. I already have bone pain, muscle pain, and
I'm not taking it or that could cause diabetes, which
I'm trying to prevent because it runs in my family,
(21:17):
and I'm not going to take it. And you know,
go with your gut.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah, yeah, this is a very important issue you're raising.
That's the it's it's an issue called informed consent, and
a lot of people don't realize that you have a
patient have a legal right to inform consent, and informed consent,
you know, is basically like it it is your doctor's
(21:49):
legal obligation to tell you about the the risk of
medication like an antidepressant versus the benefits. That doctor also
is supposed to tell you about alternative ways of dealing
with the problem. And I would urge I would urge
(22:11):
your listeners to google this YouTube, Robert Whittaker Informed Consent.
It's an amazing, amazing video of Robert Whittaker, who he
is a former science writer for the Boston Globe, and
(22:33):
he wrote a landmark book called Anatomy of an Epidemic,
Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental
Illness in America. And he has established a movement sort
of website called Madinamerica dot com where you can get
all kinds of interesting information. But he says at the
end of that video, I have to say, I don't
(22:57):
think even the app rich psychiatrist or doctor is capable
of giving informed consent because they don't know the actual
data on benefits versus risks. I mean, that's a frightening statement.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
That is I heard. I think you posted something on
LinkedIn about Robert Whittaker, and I listened to him. Ah, phenomenal,
very very informant. I don't know if it was this
particular one or not. But he was very good. I
(23:36):
think I was yelling here when I was watching it.
That's right, because you you know, you you have to
to know. I can give the example of my husband.
He was near the end of his life and he
was hallosening like crazy and he was agitated, and they
(23:58):
didn't believe me at the medication he was on, the
Sarah quill and quantapin did not help. And that when
you know, he would normally just you know, sit there,
but when he got agitated, he was like a jack
in the box. He'd jumped right up and start walking.
Of course he would you know, fall. And these medications
(24:22):
are black boxed for people that are sixty five yea
and over.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Incredible, incredible, and there's.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yes, and there are side effects, so you would have
to equate there's a benefit, is it benefiting you? And
not just I mean any medication, because with medications, and
they're great and I'm glad we have them, but there
are side effects. And with me myself personally, I say
(24:56):
to myself, Betsy, is the benefit the side effects? Well,
now the side effects it's going to make me sick.
It's not the it's not benefiting me, that's right, And
this is what you know we have to do. Go ahead, and.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, you know, I think I think, you know, you know,
on the subject of suicide prevention and antidepressants and all that,
I think we you know, we need to talk about
how vulnerable younger people are yes to these drugs. And
(25:38):
you know, uh, in the book I I write about
an infamous clinical trial with the title of study three
twenty nine. I mean, there's a there's a huge, like
three page Wikipedia entry on that. By the way, you
can just google study three twenty nine. And that was
(25:58):
the most comprehensive clinical study ever conducted on the effects
of an ssri on adolescence. So, and that was Glaxo
Smith Clin was was the company that sponsored that. You know,
they make Paxel so but thanks to a whistle blower,
(26:19):
Laxo Smith Clin was caught red handed and burying data
which indicated that Paxel caused suicidality in an alarming percentage
of adolescent patients. The US Department of Justice charged Laxo
Smith Clin was failing to report safety data. I mean,
what that is is fraudulent concealment and more, and in
(26:40):
twenty twelve, Laxo Smith client pleaded guilty and paid a
three billion dollar settlement, including a criminal sign of one
billion dollars. Now you think you would think that that
would have a deleterious effect on Blackso Smith Clin's profits
for that year in sales. Not really at all. I
(27:03):
think they made more money that year that they were
fined than they had ever made before. And here's the
you know, here's the disturbing thing. It's clear that you know,
almost nobody really heard about all that. And so this
is what's alarming to me. This is in the book,
between twenty sixteen and twenty twenty two, the monthly dispensing
(27:29):
rates of anti antidepressants in the United States increased by
sixty six point three percent for twelve to twenty five
year olds. Twelve among twelve to seventeen year old females,
the dispensing rate increased by one hundred and thirty percent.
(27:50):
I mean, it's just and you know, it's like I
just have kind of anecdotal evidence for what a kind
of uncovered tragedy this is, you know, ongoing tragedy among
younger people. But here's one piece of anecdotal evidence, but
(28:14):
I'll give you. And so it's of a young man
who is in my extended family, twenty eight years old,
big strapping young man, six foot six, two hundred and
fifty pounds. He got a full ride at a major
college to play football. And he grew up in one
of America's larger cities and went to you know, these
(28:38):
good private schools, and so he was almost always around
middle class, upper middle class type friends and acquaintances. Well,
he's twenty eight years old, and he recently we were
talking about my book, and he said that he, among
all his friends and acquaintances his age, he knows a
(28:59):
thirteen thirteen of those friends or acquaintances who have committed suicide,
and antidepressants are suspected in every single one of those incidents.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Wow, Wow, that that is tragic. I interviewed a former
high school classmate of mine whose daughter she was on antidepressants.
I remember which ones, she didn't remember which ones, and
she did commit suicide. Let the suicide note. Beautiful young girl.
(29:35):
And it is so sad and you like, I asked, like,
why are these young people struggling so much in today's world?
Is it because of the social media. You know, bullying
(29:56):
is more you know, twenty four to seven, it's yeah,
you know when I was younger, girls want to look
like Twiggy. I'm dating myself here, but you know it's said,
you know, to to achieve this look of you know
what model or rock store you want to look like like?
(30:21):
You know how many likes and social media. They don't
understand there's more to life than that. And people, I
have to say this to the audience and when people
tell others and I can't stand when people say this,
be strong. That's not helpful. That's that's that's not help Folks.
(30:45):
Don't tell anyone struggling to be strong. They don't need
to hear that.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
I'm more like vulnerable. And you know, yes, what you're feeling, Yes, I.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Mean I was told to be strong. I didn't need
to hear that I have been strong. You are strong.
And again, especially with men, there's a high suicide rate,
always more among men, veterans. Now you know, doctors, you're policemen,
(31:19):
and of course you know there's women on these professions
who have committed suicide. Also. It is really sad. And
then when people think, oh, they committed suicide, they looked happy. Well, yeah,
because they pretended to be happy, or oh that they
did something selfish. Let me make it very clear, when
(31:41):
someone is thinking about that, they're not thinking, oh, this
is going to be selfish for me to do. They
are in pain, they are in agony. They cannot see
light at the end of the tunnel. And if you
don't know what it's like to be in that dark hole,
(32:03):
then don't say anything. Say to your friend, I'm sorry,
I'm here for you. That's right, there for them, Yeah,
they be there for them. Yes, what can I do
to help you? Just to be there and be a
listening ear. That's what people want.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
That's so true. That's so true, you know, you know,
to get back to like the vulnerable younger population and
girls in particular, you know, and this is the in
my chapter. You know, the COVID pandemic made matters worse.
(32:46):
According to the CDC, the percentage of teenage girls considering
an attempting suicide rose in twenty twenty one, you know,
right right during the worst of the COVID epidemic. In fact,
the CDC's Youth Risk Behavior Survey found that thirty percent
of female students in grades nine through twelve seriously considered
(33:10):
attempting suicide in twenty twenty one thirty percent, up from
twenty four point one percent in twenty nineteen. The number
of teen girls who made a plan for suicide also
rose from nineteen point nine to twenty three point six percent,
and the percentage who attempted suicide rose from eleven to
(33:31):
thirteen point three percent. So, you know, I don't know
how many people are aware of that, but we have
got to find ways to look out for that, our
younger population in particular. You know, they're so vulnerable to us.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yes, and you know there's a lot on TikTok, a
lot on Instagram. I'm some of that's not good. And
I can't even imagine some of the you know, stuff
that goes on. I'm glad I'm not a teenager in
(34:11):
today's world. I think it's very important ed for parents,
guardians to have these discussions with their daughters and sons
to check in with their feelings communication. I can't and
press that enough. Folks, keep your lines of communication open
(34:32):
with your children, because if you close that, they're going
to go to other people. They well, not a good
advice for them. And you know that's how they seek,
you know, gangs because they want acceptance. And it's like,
what are we doing wrong as a society for these
(34:54):
young people to be so stressed out? I mean it's
like I think it's I think one problem really is
the Internet. I mean Internet. It's wonderful and I love
the Internet and I'm on it every day, but there's
some things that are not so great about it. And
(35:16):
it's these kids that are on twenty four to seven
looking at their phones continuously, you know, not getting the sleep.
What do you think, ed do you no? Huge?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
You know, it's like, you know, being on the phone
has become a substitute for faith to face intimacy with
fellow human beings. You know, you're you're just you know,
you're kind of getting in touch with people who have
sort of like curated selves to look impressive on social media,
(35:52):
et cetera. And yeah, for young women in particular, you
get all these body images you know that aren't really help.
And yeah, it's if we could all just limit the
screen time of our children, you know, for an hour
a day or something, because I think I think the
(36:14):
average amount of time is up over six hours a
day or something. Crazy like that. You know, I think
that'd be a step in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Wow. And I want to encourage parents and guardians observe
if your children have changes, are they sad, are they isolating,
and talk to them. I did not know this when
I was a child, because you know, I grew up
(36:44):
in the sixties and we didn't talk about anything. I
was very sad. I was very depressed as a child.
I had three friends that moved away with then the
short span of each other. I didn't know I was
grieving or lost. I knew I was very sad. It
was very depressed for six years. I was the baby
of the family and my brother was born, so I
(37:06):
lost my place in the family and became non grata,
and I thought, you know, no one loved me. I
went in a closet and I tried to kill myself.
I was nine or ten years old. I'm not ashamed
to say that, folks. I just want the audience to
know children get depressed as young as nine ten, maybe
(37:27):
even younger. Please pay attention to clues. Don't make fun
of them like I was made fun of because I
didn't want to play outside or didn't have friends. I
didn't I was afraid of losing people. I was afraid
if I made a friend, I would lose them. Children
love that they don't have friends. You don't have to
(37:48):
make fun of them for that. Take them for help,
get them support. There's a lot of support now for children.
Torture pediatrician and get referrals from your child's pediatrician, and
do it before they're eighteen. Because folks, when you're child's
(38:08):
eighteen here in the States, they do not have to
tell you anything about treatment. You have no say at all.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
And I know that firsthand from my friend who could
not have to say in her daughter's treatment, who tried
to tell the therapist things, and because her daughter was over eighteen,
they didn't listen. Wow, And it's really tragic. Be very
(38:47):
you know, folks, as parents, put your phone down. Set
an example, put your phone down, look at your children
when they're talking to you. Nothing's more important than your
children and your children's mental health. And I think you
(39:07):
know at a big problem is self esteem. You know,
if parents make fun of their children their height, their weight,
their physique, their looks, that's not helpful, folks. No one's
a perfect parent. I'm not a perfect parent. By any means.
(39:29):
But I keep the lines of communication open, and I
encourage my son, you know, tell me if you're said,
I keep like around the time of my husband's sickness,
that they got worse. I asked, Josh, how are you
doing Father's Day? How are you doing? Because it's important.
(39:53):
I also had a discussion about suicide because my son
came down cry one day. His friend that he knew,
who was a police officer, killed himself on train tracks
and he was upset, and he said, why did he
do this? And I said, I don't know why he
did that. And I said he must have felt he
(40:15):
was in a very dark place and he was maybe
he was afraid to ask for help because he was
a policeman. This is why we have to stop the stigma.
We have to stop this. Good old boys, suck it up.
You're a man man, not just stop that. It's old school,
(40:41):
so true.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, And you know, try to make your children feel
like that they are lovedconditionally, unconditioned, you know. And I
learned to lessen the hard way about that when when
I was I was experiencing a horrible episode of depression
(41:05):
back when I was in you know, anxiety attacks and
all that back when I was in advertising. Uh and
you know, it was it was agony on every level,
including physical you know. And so luckily I had a
mentor who knew what I was going through, and he
(41:28):
connected me with a friend of his who was a
prison methodist minister who did some counseling. And this was
very helpful. It was tough, but so it was talk therapy.
And here's what this young minister said to me, Like
the first time we got together. Hey, Ed, I hear
you've won a lot of of advertising awards. And I
(41:50):
kind of brightened up and I said, yeah, yeah, I've
won some. I've won some awards recently. He said, I
don't care. I don't care that you've won some awards,
and it was like, your time is up. What do
you know? What he was saying, you know, between the lines,
was that's not why I value you as a human being.
So then the the culminating talk therapy that I had
(42:15):
with him, you know, we talked about you know, my
dad was alcoholics, I'm the oldest child of an alcoholic,
you know, all that kind of stuff. So anyway, he
got down to brass tacks at the end, he said ed,
here's what it all boils down to. You've never been
loved unconditionally, and so you know, as a minister, he
(42:40):
was I think trying to imply that there is a
source of unconditional love we can tap into, you know.
And it took, it took, it took a lot of work,
but that that eventually I got out of the dark
hole I was in, you know, without any antidepressants or anything.
(43:01):
This was This was in the early eighties and I
haven't had an episode since. Wow.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
That that is wonderful. That's what we need, you know,
mentors support and you know, I didn't feel loved as
a child. I was an outcast. That was proven at
my mother's funeral last year. What an outcast I was.
And you know, when you're treated like you don't exist, Yeah,
(43:35):
that is very hurtful. When your you know, parents say
things that are very mean to you. That does not help.
We don't know, you know, what people go through because
they didn't talk about it. You're about the same age,
design am I think ed. It wasn't you know, discussed
(43:59):
and even at school teachers made fun of you back then.
If you didn't know an answer, you know, you went
up to the board. They'd embarrass you and of course
may have a sens of this, so I would start
to cry. Of course Scott called names for that. It's
really we don't know what people are going through. Everyone
(44:21):
is struggling. It seems like these days. Just be kind,
you know, reach just reach out. And if people who
you think are strong, they need support too, They need
someone to check in on them too. Everyone has their
melting point as I call it, or their boiling point,
(44:45):
and people you know can get depressed for whatever reason.
I always say this, you know, no one knows what
life has in store. No I can throw you a curveball.
And how would you I feel if you lost a
loved one, or you went through a tragedy and someone said,
(45:07):
oh man up or be strong, would that help you?
Or if you had to take medication, if you went
for therapy. I had to go for therapy. Would you
want someone making fun of you? Of course not. And
I will you know, And I'll say this, folks, because
(45:28):
I know this has been my experience. I'm not afraid
to share it. When I'm nineteen seventy four. When I
was sixteen, I spoke out about abuse in my family
and I was depressed and I went to see a
social worker. I was made fun of in my family.
I was called names, I was gaslighted. It takes a
(45:50):
strong person to go to therapy. It takes a strong
person to withstand the name calling and the gas lighting
and still go for help. So think about that, and
how ironic, how ironic that my sister who called me
(46:10):
names and it's fun of me, she later went on
went to therapy. So you know, you just don't know
when you will need it. And I'm not ashamed to
say it. I encourage it. I encourage people to go
(46:31):
for counseling. I still go for counseling, not ashamed to
say it at all. Of me saying that I go
for counseling will encourage someone out there to go for counseling.
That's that's great. And I really and now, at the
age of sixty almost sixty eight, I'm learning I don't
(46:53):
have to suppress my feelings anymore that I've suppressed for
so many years. It's bes to acknowledge them and nowadate then.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Exactly, Yeah, you know, while you were talking, while you
were talking, flash flashing back to you know, the Krispy
case was covered by Oprah Winfrey. She Oprah Winfrey devoted
an entire hour to the case back in two thousand
(47:26):
and six, you know, just a few months after the
tragedy happened. And at the end of her show, she
had a forensic psychiatrist named doctor Michael Welner stand up
and talk about depression, and you know what his advice
was for loved ones, et cetera. So he said, he
(47:47):
said that the key factor that characterizes severe depressions is hopelessness.
So he offered practical advice and tips for audience members
who had loved ones who are depressed. First, if your
loved one seems to be hopeless about one specific thing,
try to get them to focus on something else that
(48:09):
might give them a reason for hope. Welner said that
this was why as a psychiatrist he put a good
deal of stock in faith and spirituality. They offer quote,
a clear and unobstructed pathway to hope, he said. Second,
never allowed the pressed person to isolate, and don't be
hurt if they try to shut you out, try to
(48:30):
find someone else they can connect with. And then, finally,
what he said was perhaps the key lesson. He wanted
to impart was one that you may not it's you
may not hear this from anywhere else is do not
rely upon medicine. Doctors will only do so much. You
(48:51):
may set yourself up for disappointment. Mm hmm. I think
those are pretty wise words. And you know, coming from
a forensic psychiatrist saying, don't rely upon medicine to to
you know, ultimately fix it. You know, talk therapy, meditation,
(49:14):
you know, guided self help, exercise, there are all kinds
of but you know, never never allow a person who's
going through this awful, awful situation to be alone, isolated.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
That's true, That is so true. Edward L. Jones. Third,
I just love talking to you. I can talk to
you all day. You you are the man I want
to just I wish I could help you in person
and sending them hugs through the airwaves. How just brave
(49:56):
of you to talk about, you know, your own depression
and what you went through. That is courageous. Writing your
book Medication, Mental Illness and Murder What really killed the
Crispy Twins is was definitely tough for you to write.
(50:18):
It's you know, people think, oh, well, why should I
read that? It's suppressings I'm telling you you need to
read it because it's educational, it's informative, and you need
to read it. We need to start discussing the tragedies
that have gone on, talking about informed consent, knowing about medications,
(50:42):
knowing about side effects, and learning from the Crespy family.
And I want to thank you again for coming on.
Where can people purchase your book?
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah, I think the easiest way to do it is
to go to my website Edward Lee Jones dot com
and there's a tab that says buy the book there
and okay, links to Barnes and Noble and Amazon. It
also has a link my my publisher, Roman and Littlefield
(51:19):
was acquired by Bloomsbury, a UK very good publisher. So
there's a link to the blooms Bloomsbury site there where
you can order the book and it's you know, between us,
it's about ten dollars less to pay for the bill
and it is an Amazon so there's a tip.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Oh, okay, and then they could get in contact with
you on your website.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
That's right, that's right, and you know, you know, just
folks need to know that I have pledged eighty percent
of whatever royalties I received from the book to Kim
Cresby's health Care Trust. She's experiencing advanced Parkinson's disease, it
(52:07):
needs twenty four to seven care and her resources will
soon be running out. So by purchasing the book, it's
you're in effect making you know, a little donation to
her health care trust.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Wow, that is so great to know, and that is
so very kind of you to do. But that's the
kind of person you are. You're a very nice guy
and you want to help people, and that shows you.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Know.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Your passion for what you write about shows in your
book and when you speak folks, I highly encourage you
really buy this book, tell your friends about it, Tell
your friends about this show. Tell your friends about Edward L. Jones. Third,
everything about ed will be in the blog that Genie White,
(53:00):
the station manager, writes and produces the show. And I
want to thank you Ed for coming on again and
have to have you back on next year. And I
want to thank lil and colbol who's the CEO of
Pattiworle Talk Radio Network, who makes this all possible. And
want to thank you the listeners. Please describe to Chatting
(53:21):
with Betty's for free on Amazon Music. Spotify spreaker, tell
your friends about a show. I want to help as
many people as possible, and I can only do it
if you help me. And that's what the show is about.
I will discuss topics that most people find uncomfortable. I've
(53:43):
been talking about mental health before I even had a show.
I talked about mental health when I did videos in
my car. We need to remove the stigma of mental health.
We need to be informed when purchasing, when getting medication prescribed.
(54:04):
Do not be afraid to ask your doctor questions or
your pharmacist. As you have any question at all about medication.
You call your doctor, you insist that something's not right.
They might believe you. They may not believe you. I
wasn't believed and I made my case. But you would
have to be informed yourself, and that's why knowledge is power.
(54:30):
Then you have to do your research. It's very important.
And I want to thank you all for spending listening
and spending time out with me. If you want to
be I'm on Facebook. That's the e worzel w r
z e L. And as I always say at the
end of my show and the world that you could
(54:50):
be anything, Please be kind, shine your life right because
we need it now more than ever before. This is
that's your worthal You're a host of Check with Betsy.
I'm Passion World Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global
Media Network LLC. Be saved out there, everyone, Bye bye
Hello, everyone, this is Betsy Worsal. You're a host of
Chatting with Betsy, a passion World Talk Radio Network, a
subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC, and we're amonstirous to educate, enlighten,
and entertain. The views of the guest may not represent
those of the hosts of the station. Folks, I'm going
(00:22):
to do a disclaimer before I bring my guests on
this month the Suicide Prevention Months, and my guest today
is going to talk about We're going to talk about
suicide prevention. We're going to talk about medications. People are
afraid to talk about it here and Chatting with Betsy,
I'm not afraid to talk about anything. You want to
(00:42):
hear a show about topics that are controversial, This I'm
your girl because I will tackle any topic and I've
had for the past six years. And I just want
to tell the audience, please console your primary time physician
for any mental health care concerns. For referrals in your area,
(01:07):
Please discuss any medication concerns with your primary care doctor.
They can talk to you. We're not doctors. We are
just gonna have a discussion about it and medication works
for you. That's fine, that's great, But if you have
(01:28):
any concerns, please consult your primary care physician, and if
you are having any crisis at all, please call the
Suicide Hotline ninety eight eight. And folks, I'm so honored
to have with me again. Ed Jones. Edward Jones Third,
(01:49):
he was back in May and we talked about his book.
He is author and writer of Medication, Mental Illness and
Murder What Really Killed the Krusty Twins? Folks, this book
for Edward's first book. I give kudos to L. Jones
(02:12):
the Third for tackling this tough subject, not an easy
subject to talk about, and it is a eye opening book.
I highly recommend it. I feel like everyone needs to
read it, and there's a lot of information in this book.
It's very heart touching and really I can't recommend it enough.
(02:37):
But I was going to tell you a little bit
about Edward L. Jones. If you missed that show, you
could go on Amazon and you can look that show up.
But Edward L. Jones the Third, he was a very
creative advertising and the world of advertising. He won many
(03:02):
many awards and worked for the Charlotte Talk Observers as
a community columnist and She also worked in the higher
education doing a work for several colleges and his copywriting
(03:25):
work as a featured in several college textbooks. I highly
recommend you looking up Edward Jones the Third and I
want to welcome to Jetting with Petsy again, Edward Jones
the Third. Welcome Edward.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Thank you, Betsy. It's an honor and a privilege to
have this opportunity to talk with you again. Thank you,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Oh you are welcome, and it is my pleasure. I
folks back in May when I did interview, and I
tell you got to come back in September, and we're
going to just to give a little bit of background.
I'll have Edward to talk about the book. In the background.
(04:15):
We need to talk about mental health and it's been
the stigma. And the one thing I'm grateful for COVID
is that it brought out mental health and it wasn't
so stigmatized to go for mental health. And I've said
this on my show many times and I'm going to
(04:36):
keep saying it, and so I can't talk anymore. We
as a society need to change how we raise our boys,
and I can't stress that enough. We need to be
able to have our boys, our sons and nephews, whatever
they are to you, be able to express their emotions
(04:57):
in a comforting and vironment, in the supportive environment. And
I just have to throw this out to the audience.
As you were a parent or guardian and you see
your children struggling or they come to you and they
say they are struggling, they are anxious, they're depressed. Please
don't think it's just a stage. Please don't think they're
(05:19):
just gonna snap out of it. Take them for help.
There's help out there. And I really encourage that because
I was depressed as a child, and you know, I
wasn't talked about in the sixties or seventies, but I
want to walk in New again. Of course, got on
a tangent there.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
That's an important thing. That is an important thing to say. Yeah,
our family had a friend who was a Jesuit priest
and he one time said, I think to the congregation,
he said, if you want to make a young boy
or young adolescent sick, tell him not to cry. You know.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Oh I like that. Yeah, well that's good. Yeah, that's
a good one. And yes, that's what we were told.
I'm going to be sixty eight guys willing in December.
Yes and boys, we were told don't cry. Crying is
a weakness, it's not right, it is I'm not uh itself. Yes,
(06:32):
it is uh healthy, and I encourage it, I really do.
I'm going to go on another tangent here and forgive
me when it really made me mad when my husband
was dying and people would tell us to be strong,
(06:55):
or they would tell Josh be strong for your mom. No,
I said that. I'm a Jersey girl, and I will
tell you like this straight up, do not. I just
don't ever say that to Josh again. He has the
right to cry. His father's dying, my husband's dying. We've
been strong, and there is nothing weak about crying. We're
(07:19):
human beings, not robots. And we're as a society we're
not taught about grieving. And I'll let you talk about
your buck my two tangents go ahead, sure, yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah. The first two lines in my prologue are these.
It says, this is a true story about a terrible
family tragedy, a tragedy made more terrible by how presentable
it was. So that's a big theme in the book.
(08:04):
And what do I mean by preventable. In the case
of David Cresby, who I was just becoming friends with
before this terrible tragedy happened. Approximately sixteen hours before David
killed his precious twin girls, five year old twin girls,
he was playing a board game with his family in
(08:26):
their very spacious house. He's a very successful banker, and
so you know, he had five children at the time,
including the two twins. All five of those children were
playing the board game with him, as was his wife,
Kim Cresby, and they noticed that David was casing almost
(08:47):
sort of manically around the house, going into the dining room,
circling the table, going into the den, and then coming
back and then doing it all again, saying some weird things,
and then him said that later that evening, David was
erratically jumping in and out of the bed and going
(09:09):
around the four corners of the rug that was beside
the bed in this very strange way. Well, what that
was was it was a clear sign, or it should
have been a clear sign, that David was having a
side effect of an SSRI andidepressant called akathesia. Akathesia means
(09:36):
in Greek. It means the inability to sit still. And
what it is is a signal that the mind and
the body are going into toxicity and that the person
who is doing this is in grave danger of harming
himself or others. And the prespies, of course, this was
two thousand and six. They had never heard of this effect.
(10:02):
And why hadn't they heard of that side effect because
the pharmaceutical companies for years, who were aware of this
potential lethal side effects, buried the clinical trial results mountains
of it that suggested that this this was just one
of the adverse side effects. So that's kind of you
(10:26):
know that that's just part of the book. But yeah,
it's uh and and you know, of course it's just
had devastating effects on Kim Cresby's health and all sorts
of sorts of other repercussions.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yes, and they were told about the side effect. You're right,
this could have been this horrible, horrible tragedy could have
been prevented. And thanks to this book that you bravely
wrote a word. And you know, I can't give enough
kudos to Edward L. Jones for writing this book, which
(11:08):
in my opinion, should be an international bestseller that in
my opinion, folks that when people go on these rampages,
I now think were they taking certain medications, Were they
taking a certain cocktail of medications? Yes, because you give
(11:28):
many stories in your book about people who had violent
rampages and they were on a cocktail of medications. And
you know, folks, you can hear on TV. I don't
know if they had us in other countries, but here
in the US they do commercials. They save the side effects.
(11:53):
So in a lot of these medications, they'll say that
it can cause suicidal thoughts. Now you're taking medication, an antidepressant,
because you're depressed, maybe you did have suisidal thoughts. I would, personally,
I'd be scared to take it. I've never taken antidepressant.
(12:16):
I was able to just get over my depression through therapy.
But unfortunate, not everybody can do that. They need medication.
And that's fine. I'm not saying don't take medication. Just
be careful, consult with your doctor. Yes, I think you
(12:37):
would agree, Edward, that you know, to be your own
advocate or for your loved one, you have to be knowledgeable.
Research these medications for yourself before you take them, ask
questions and if you see side effects, call the doctor's
(12:58):
office immediately and that they said, no, that can't be.
Arg you with them, because yes it can be. So
you have to have the knowledge.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
That that's exactly right, and you are correct that you
do hear about the side effect of suicidality on the
air now. But you know, I've got a chapter in
my book called a History of Antidepressants, and part of
it chronicles how much the pharmaceutical giants and the FDA
(13:38):
dragged their feet about revealing that particular side effect. And
if I could say, I mean really and truly, I
would say, the pharmaceutical giants and the FDA have a
disgraceful history of not properly warning Americans about the potential
suicide risks of taking antidepressants. And if you would, if
(14:03):
you would oblige me, I would like to read a
passage about that history.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, go ahead, and yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
On September twenty one, nineteen ninety one. You know, the
first SSRI Prozac came out in nineteen eighty seven, so
this is nineteen ninety one. On September twenty first, nineteen
ninety one, the FDA held a hearing about the possible
link between prozac suicidality and violence, including homicides. By nineteen
(14:39):
ninety one, the FDA had received more than fourteen thousand
adverse event reports linked to prozac, including five hundred suicides.
During the hearing, witness after witness got up, walked up
to a microphone and told a heartrending story about the
(14:59):
irreversible devastation that Prozac had unleashed on them and their
family members. Here are just two examples. This one was
from a woman named Susan Williams. She said, my sister
did commit suicide in front of Lindsey, her daughter. Another
woman at this hearing today spoke of hollow point bullets.
(15:20):
That's what my sister used. My sister never would have
killed herself in front of this little girl. She would
never have done that. Prozac. Prozac induced her to do that.
Then a gentleman named David Moneymaker stood up and said,
I had two sons, David Lee age eight and Billie sixteen,
(15:40):
a wife of twenty years. But that's all gone. I'll
tell you why. After being on prozac for twenty one days,
my wife shot and killed both of those boys. She
turned the gun to herself and shot herself twice. Now
she's in jail for murder. This is what makes my
blood boil. That's the Okay. At the end of the hearing,
(16:04):
after listening to one passionately told story after another, the
chairman of the FDA committee, Daniel Casey, dispassionately read from
this prepared statement. I do not find from the evidence
today that there is credible evidence to support a conclusion
that antidepressants caused the emergence nor the intensification of suicidality
(16:29):
and or other violent behaviors. He said that with complete calm.
And so another important thing for your listeners to know
is that in the UK, by two thousand and four,
the British government had virtually banned SSRIs for children and
(16:53):
young adults in the light of real risk for suicide
and violence. In America, the FDA remained unconvinced and demanded
more studies. Okay, so, and now, if you don't mind,
(17:15):
later in this chapter on the history of antidepressants, I
paint a picture of and this is December of two
thousand and six, Doctor Joseph Glenn Mullen stood in front
of an FDA advisory panel on antidepressants and a packed
audience of lay people to testify this is two thousand
(17:36):
and six now that it was pastime that the FDA
issue a black box warning across all age groups that
antidepressants cause suicidality. I'll quickly try to tell you what
he said. The first thing he said is he said,
right to the FDA panel's face, the data that the
(17:59):
FDA is looking today is flawed, as the FDA well knows.
Although the FDA has known about this side effect suicidality
since nineteen ninety, it has never insisted that a pharmaceutical
company studied the phenomenon with sensitive measures of treatment emergence suicidality.
(18:19):
On September twentieth, nineteen ninety one, he's referring to the
you know, the earlier panel the FDA held a hearing
just like today's and swept this issue under the carpet.
At the time, the FDA and ELI Lilly agreed that
Lily would do the gold standard research. Lily developed the
protocol for the research, including scales of treatment emergent suicidality.
(18:42):
Yet Lily never did the research, and the FDA still
hasn't gotten the gold standard research done. Especially since the
FDA has not done the gold standard research. You must
extend the warning to all age groups. Warning patients does
not scare them away. It allows them to make informed
choices and save lives. Think of how many families and
(19:06):
communities have been devastated by the side effect in those
fifteen years. Do the right thing today and extend the
black box warning to all age groups. If you do
anything less than that, once again, the FDA has failed
to protect the American public and American patients. Thank you, miss.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Great Wow it is that made my blood boil too
when I read your book, and folks, that chapter is
so full of information that is extremely important for the
public to know. When I tell you, it's eye opening, folks,
(19:48):
it is eye opening. That's why you know you need
to take medication. There's nothing wrong with that. We're not
saying don't take it. We're not saying that it's wrong
to take it. Let me make that clear. You need
to know the side effects. That's what Edward's trying to
say in his book. And now be informed. Be an
(20:11):
informed consumer. Don't you want you buy a car, you
want to know what the safety rating is on the car.
Don't you want to know how many miles you get
from a car? Well, and you ask questions before you
buy a car, ask questions before you take medication. And
I'll tell you something. I'll tell you my you know,
my own wife. A doctor recommended me to take this medication.
(20:36):
I won't say the name for my cholesterol gets an injection.
I got the grant for it. Hey didn't tell me
all the side effects. I got the medication, and I'm
reading the information that it comes with the medication, and
I said to my son, I said, I can't take this.
(20:57):
I said, my gut is telling me not to take
this medication. He didn't tell me all the side effects,
and I can't take anything that's going to make me
feel worse. I already have bone pain, muscle pain, and
I'm not taking it or that could cause diabetes, which
I'm trying to prevent because it runs in my family,
(21:17):
and I'm not going to take it. And you know,
go with your gut.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yeah, yeah, this is a very important issue you're raising.
That's the it's it's an issue called informed consent, and
a lot of people don't realize that you have a
patient have a legal right to inform consent, and informed consent,
you know, is basically like it it is your doctor's
(21:49):
legal obligation to tell you about the the risk of
medication like an antidepressant versus the benefits. That doctor also
is supposed to tell you about alternative ways of dealing
with the problem. And I would urge I would urge
(22:11):
your listeners to google this YouTube, Robert Whittaker Informed Consent.
It's an amazing, amazing video of Robert Whittaker, who he
is a former science writer for the Boston Globe, and
(22:33):
he wrote a landmark book called Anatomy of an Epidemic,
Magic Bullets, Psychiatric Drugs, and the Astonishing Rise of Mental
Illness in America. And he has established a movement sort
of website called Madinamerica dot com where you can get
all kinds of interesting information. But he says at the
end of that video, I have to say, I don't
(22:57):
think even the app rich psychiatrist or doctor is capable
of giving informed consent because they don't know the actual
data on benefits versus risks. I mean, that's a frightening statement.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
That is I heard. I think you posted something on
LinkedIn about Robert Whittaker, and I listened to him. Ah, phenomenal,
very very informant. I don't know if it was this
particular one or not. But he was very good. I
(23:36):
think I was yelling here when I was watching it.
That's right, because you you know, you you have to
to know. I can give the example of my husband.
He was near the end of his life and he
was hallosening like crazy and he was agitated, and they
(23:58):
didn't believe me at the medication he was on, the
Sarah quill and quantapin did not help. And that when
you know, he would normally just you know, sit there,
but when he got agitated, he was like a jack
in the box. He'd jumped right up and start walking.
Of course he would you know, fall. And these medications
(24:22):
are black boxed for people that are sixty five yea
and over.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Incredible, incredible, and there's.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yes, and there are side effects, so you would have
to equate there's a benefit, is it benefiting you? And
not just I mean any medication, because with medications, and
they're great and I'm glad we have them, but there
are side effects. And with me myself personally, I say
(24:56):
to myself, Betsy, is the benefit the side effects? Well,
now the side effects it's going to make me sick.
It's not the it's not benefiting me, that's right, And
this is what you know we have to do. Go ahead, and.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, you know, I think I think, you know, you know,
on the subject of suicide prevention and antidepressants and all that,
I think we you know, we need to talk about
how vulnerable younger people are yes to these drugs. And
(25:38):
you know, uh, in the book I I write about
an infamous clinical trial with the title of study three
twenty nine. I mean, there's a there's a huge, like
three page Wikipedia entry on that. By the way, you
can just google study three twenty nine. And that was
(25:58):
the most comprehensive clinical study ever conducted on the effects
of an ssri on adolescence. So, and that was Glaxo
Smith Clin was was the company that sponsored that. You know,
they make Paxel so but thanks to a whistle blower,
(26:19):
Laxo Smith Clin was caught red handed and burying data
which indicated that Paxel caused suicidality in an alarming percentage
of adolescent patients. The US Department of Justice charged Laxo
Smith Clin was failing to report safety data. I mean,
what that is is fraudulent concealment and more, and in
(26:40):
twenty twelve, Laxo Smith client pleaded guilty and paid a
three billion dollar settlement, including a criminal sign of one
billion dollars. Now you think you would think that that
would have a deleterious effect on Blackso Smith Clin's profits
for that year in sales. Not really at all. I
(27:03):
think they made more money that year that they were
fined than they had ever made before. And here's the
you know, here's the disturbing thing. It's clear that you know,
almost nobody really heard about all that. And so this
is what's alarming to me. This is in the book,
between twenty sixteen and twenty twenty two, the monthly dispensing
(27:29):
rates of anti antidepressants in the United States increased by
sixty six point three percent for twelve to twenty five
year olds. Twelve among twelve to seventeen year old females,
the dispensing rate increased by one hundred and thirty percent.
(27:50):
I mean, it's just and you know, it's like I
just have kind of anecdotal evidence for what a kind
of uncovered tragedy this is, you know, ongoing tragedy among
younger people. But here's one piece of anecdotal evidence, but
(28:14):
I'll give you. And so it's of a young man
who is in my extended family, twenty eight years old,
big strapping young man, six foot six, two hundred and
fifty pounds. He got a full ride at a major
college to play football. And he grew up in one
of America's larger cities and went to you know, these
(28:38):
good private schools, and so he was almost always around
middle class, upper middle class type friends and acquaintances. Well,
he's twenty eight years old, and he recently we were
talking about my book, and he said that he, among
all his friends and acquaintances his age, he knows a
(28:59):
thirteen thirteen of those friends or acquaintances who have committed suicide,
and antidepressants are suspected in every single one of those incidents.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Wow, Wow, that that is tragic. I interviewed a former
high school classmate of mine whose daughter she was on antidepressants.
I remember which ones, she didn't remember which ones, and
she did commit suicide. Let the suicide note. Beautiful young girl.
(29:35):
And it is so sad and you like, I asked, like,
why are these young people struggling so much in today's world?
Is it because of the social media. You know, bullying
(29:56):
is more you know, twenty four to seven, it's yeah,
you know when I was younger, girls want to look
like Twiggy. I'm dating myself here, but you know it's said,
you know, to to achieve this look of you know
what model or rock store you want to look like like?
(30:21):
You know how many likes and social media. They don't
understand there's more to life than that. And people, I
have to say this to the audience and when people
tell others and I can't stand when people say this,
be strong. That's not helpful. That's that's that's not help Folks.
(30:45):
Don't tell anyone struggling to be strong. They don't need
to hear that.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
I'm more like vulnerable. And you know, yes, what you're feeling, Yes, I.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Mean I was told to be strong. I didn't need
to hear that I have been strong. You are strong.
And again, especially with men, there's a high suicide rate,
always more among men, veterans. Now you know, doctors, you're policemen,
(31:19):
and of course you know there's women on these professions
who have committed suicide. Also. It is really sad. And
then when people think, oh, they committed suicide, they looked happy. Well, yeah,
because they pretended to be happy, or oh that they
did something selfish. Let me make it very clear, when
(31:41):
someone is thinking about that, they're not thinking, oh, this
is going to be selfish for me to do. They
are in pain, they are in agony. They cannot see
light at the end of the tunnel. And if you
don't know what it's like to be in that dark hole,
(32:03):
then don't say anything. Say to your friend, I'm sorry,
I'm here for you. That's right, there for them, Yeah,
they be there for them. Yes, what can I do
to help you? Just to be there and be a
listening ear. That's what people want.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
That's so true. That's so true, you know, you know,
to get back to like the vulnerable younger population and
girls in particular, you know, and this is the in
my chapter. You know, the COVID pandemic made matters worse.
(32:46):
According to the CDC, the percentage of teenage girls considering
an attempting suicide rose in twenty twenty one, you know,
right right during the worst of the COVID epidemic. In fact,
the CDC's Youth Risk Behavior Survey found that thirty percent
of female students in grades nine through twelve seriously considered
(33:10):
attempting suicide in twenty twenty one thirty percent, up from
twenty four point one percent in twenty nineteen. The number
of teen girls who made a plan for suicide also
rose from nineteen point nine to twenty three point six percent,
and the percentage who attempted suicide rose from eleven to
(33:31):
thirteen point three percent. So, you know, I don't know
how many people are aware of that, but we have
got to find ways to look out for that, our
younger population in particular. You know, they're so vulnerable to us.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yes, and you know there's a lot on TikTok, a
lot on Instagram. I'm some of that's not good. And
I can't even imagine some of the you know, stuff
that goes on. I'm glad I'm not a teenager in
(34:11):
today's world. I think it's very important ed for parents,
guardians to have these discussions with their daughters and sons
to check in with their feelings communication. I can't and
press that enough. Folks, keep your lines of communication open
(34:32):
with your children, because if you close that, they're going
to go to other people. They well, not a good
advice for them. And you know that's how they seek,
you know, gangs because they want acceptance. And it's like,
what are we doing wrong as a society for these
(34:54):
young people to be so stressed out? I mean it's
like I think it's I think one problem really is
the Internet. I mean Internet. It's wonderful and I love
the Internet and I'm on it every day, but there's
some things that are not so great about it. And
(35:16):
it's these kids that are on twenty four to seven
looking at their phones continuously, you know, not getting the sleep.
What do you think, ed do you no? Huge?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
You know, it's like, you know, being on the phone
has become a substitute for faith to face intimacy with
fellow human beings. You know, you're you're just you know,
you're kind of getting in touch with people who have
sort of like curated selves to look impressive on social media,
(35:52):
et cetera. And yeah, for young women in particular, you
get all these body images you know that aren't really help.
And yeah, it's if we could all just limit the
screen time of our children, you know, for an hour
a day or something, because I think I think the
(36:14):
average amount of time is up over six hours a
day or something. Crazy like that. You know, I think
that'd be a step in the right direction.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
Wow. And I want to encourage parents and guardians observe
if your children have changes, are they sad, are they isolating,
and talk to them. I did not know this when
I was a child, because you know, I grew up
(36:44):
in the sixties and we didn't talk about anything. I
was very sad. I was very depressed as a child.
I had three friends that moved away with then the
short span of each other. I didn't know I was
grieving or lost. I knew I was very sad. It
was very depressed for six years. I was the baby
of the family and my brother was born, so I
(37:06):
lost my place in the family and became non grata,
and I thought, you know, no one loved me. I
went in a closet and I tried to kill myself.
I was nine or ten years old. I'm not ashamed
to say that, folks. I just want the audience to
know children get depressed as young as nine ten, maybe
(37:27):
even younger. Please pay attention to clues. Don't make fun
of them like I was made fun of because I
didn't want to play outside or didn't have friends. I
didn't I was afraid of losing people. I was afraid
if I made a friend, I would lose them. Children
love that they don't have friends. You don't have to
(37:48):
make fun of them for that. Take them for help,
get them support. There's a lot of support now for children.
Torture pediatrician and get referrals from your child's pediatrician, and
do it before they're eighteen. Because folks, when you're child's
(38:08):
eighteen here in the States, they do not have to
tell you anything about treatment. You have no say at all.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
And I know that firsthand from my friend who could
not have to say in her daughter's treatment, who tried
to tell the therapist things, and because her daughter was over eighteen,
they didn't listen. Wow, And it's really tragic. Be very
(38:47):
you know, folks, as parents, put your phone down. Set
an example, put your phone down, look at your children
when they're talking to you. Nothing's more important than your
children and your children's mental health. And I think you
(39:07):
know at a big problem is self esteem. You know,
if parents make fun of their children their height, their weight,
their physique, their looks, that's not helpful, folks. No one's
a perfect parent. I'm not a perfect parent. By any means.
(39:29):
But I keep the lines of communication open, and I
encourage my son, you know, tell me if you're said,
I keep like around the time of my husband's sickness,
that they got worse. I asked, Josh, how are you
doing Father's Day? How are you doing? Because it's important.
(39:53):
I also had a discussion about suicide because my son
came down cry one day. His friend that he knew,
who was a police officer, killed himself on train tracks
and he was upset, and he said, why did he
do this? And I said, I don't know why he
did that. And I said he must have felt he
(40:15):
was in a very dark place and he was maybe
he was afraid to ask for help because he was
a policeman. This is why we have to stop the stigma.
We have to stop this. Good old boys, suck it up.
You're a man man, not just stop that. It's old school,
(40:41):
so true.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, And you know, try to make your children feel
like that they are lovedconditionally, unconditioned, you know. And I
learned to lessen the hard way about that when when
I was I was experiencing a horrible episode of depression
(41:05):
back when I was in you know, anxiety attacks and
all that back when I was in advertising. Uh and
you know, it was it was agony on every level,
including physical you know. And so luckily I had a
mentor who knew what I was going through, and he
(41:28):
connected me with a friend of his who was a
prison methodist minister who did some counseling. And this was
very helpful. It was tough, but so it was talk therapy.
And here's what this young minister said to me, Like
the first time we got together. Hey, Ed, I hear
you've won a lot of of advertising awards. And I
(41:50):
kind of brightened up and I said, yeah, yeah, I've
won some. I've won some awards recently. He said, I
don't care. I don't care that you've won some awards,
and it was like, your time is up. What do
you know? What he was saying, you know, between the lines,
was that's not why I value you as a human being.
So then the the culminating talk therapy that I had
(42:15):
with him, you know, we talked about you know, my
dad was alcoholics, I'm the oldest child of an alcoholic,
you know, all that kind of stuff. So anyway, he
got down to brass tacks at the end, he said ed,
here's what it all boils down to. You've never been
loved unconditionally, and so you know, as a minister, he
(42:40):
was I think trying to imply that there is a
source of unconditional love we can tap into, you know.
And it took, it took, it took a lot of work,
but that that eventually I got out of the dark
hole I was in, you know, without any antidepressants or anything.
(43:01):
This was This was in the early eighties and I
haven't had an episode since. Wow.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
That that is wonderful. That's what we need, you know,
mentors support and you know, I didn't feel loved as
a child. I was an outcast. That was proven at
my mother's funeral last year. What an outcast I was.
And you know, when you're treated like you don't exist, Yeah,
(43:35):
that is very hurtful. When your you know, parents say
things that are very mean to you. That does not help.
We don't know, you know, what people go through because
they didn't talk about it. You're about the same age,
design am I think ed. It wasn't you know, discussed
(43:59):
and even at school teachers made fun of you back then.
If you didn't know an answer, you know, you went
up to the board. They'd embarrass you and of course
may have a sens of this, so I would start
to cry. Of course Scott called names for that. It's
really we don't know what people are going through. Everyone
(44:21):
is struggling. It seems like these days. Just be kind,
you know, reach just reach out. And if people who
you think are strong, they need support too, They need
someone to check in on them too. Everyone has their
melting point as I call it, or their boiling point,
(44:45):
and people you know can get depressed for whatever reason.
I always say this, you know, no one knows what
life has in store. No I can throw you a curveball.
And how would you I feel if you lost a
loved one, or you went through a tragedy and someone said,
(45:07):
oh man up or be strong, would that help you?
Or if you had to take medication, if you went
for therapy. I had to go for therapy. Would you
want someone making fun of you? Of course not. And
I will you know, And I'll say this, folks, because
(45:28):
I know this has been my experience. I'm not afraid
to share it. When I'm nineteen seventy four. When I
was sixteen, I spoke out about abuse in my family
and I was depressed and I went to see a
social worker. I was made fun of in my family.
I was called names, I was gaslighted. It takes a
(45:50):
strong person to go to therapy. It takes a strong
person to withstand the name calling and the gas lighting
and still go for help. So think about that, and
how ironic, how ironic that my sister who called me
(46:10):
names and it's fun of me, she later went on
went to therapy. So you know, you just don't know
when you will need it. And I'm not ashamed to
say it. I encourage it. I encourage people to go
(46:31):
for counseling. I still go for counseling, not ashamed to
say it at all. Of me saying that I go
for counseling will encourage someone out there to go for counseling.
That's that's great. And I really and now, at the
age of sixty almost sixty eight, I'm learning I don't
(46:53):
have to suppress my feelings anymore that I've suppressed for
so many years. It's bes to acknowledge them and nowadate then.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Exactly, Yeah, you know, while you were talking, while you
were talking, flash flashing back to you know, the Krispy
case was covered by Oprah Winfrey. She Oprah Winfrey devoted
an entire hour to the case back in two thousand
(47:26):
and six, you know, just a few months after the
tragedy happened. And at the end of her show, she
had a forensic psychiatrist named doctor Michael Welner stand up
and talk about depression, and you know what his advice
was for loved ones, et cetera. So he said, he
(47:47):
said that the key factor that characterizes severe depressions is hopelessness.
So he offered practical advice and tips for audience members
who had loved ones who are depressed. First, if your
loved one seems to be hopeless about one specific thing,
try to get them to focus on something else that
(48:09):
might give them a reason for hope. Welner said that
this was why as a psychiatrist he put a good
deal of stock in faith and spirituality. They offer quote,
a clear and unobstructed pathway to hope, he said. Second,
never allowed the pressed person to isolate, and don't be
hurt if they try to shut you out, try to
(48:30):
find someone else they can connect with. And then, finally,
what he said was perhaps the key lesson. He wanted
to impart was one that you may not it's you
may not hear this from anywhere else is do not
rely upon medicine. Doctors will only do so much. You
(48:51):
may set yourself up for disappointment. Mm hmm. I think
those are pretty wise words. And you know, coming from
a forensic psychiatrist saying, don't rely upon medicine to to
you know, ultimately fix it. You know, talk therapy, meditation,
(49:14):
you know, guided self help, exercise, there are all kinds
of but you know, never never allow a person who's
going through this awful, awful situation to be alone, isolated.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
That's true, That is so true. Edward L. Jones. Third,
I just love talking to you. I can talk to
you all day. You you are the man I want
to just I wish I could help you in person
and sending them hugs through the airwaves. How just brave
(49:56):
of you to talk about, you know, your own depression
and what you went through. That is courageous. Writing your
book Medication, Mental Illness and Murder What really killed the
Crispy Twins is was definitely tough for you to write.
(50:18):
It's you know, people think, oh, well, why should I
read that? It's suppressings I'm telling you you need to
read it because it's educational, it's informative, and you need
to read it. We need to start discussing the tragedies
that have gone on, talking about informed consent, knowing about medications,
(50:42):
knowing about side effects, and learning from the Crespy family.
And I want to thank you again for coming on.
Where can people purchase your book?
Speaker 2 (50:57):
Yeah, I think the easiest way to do it is
to go to my website Edward Lee Jones dot com
and there's a tab that says buy the book there
and okay, links to Barnes and Noble and Amazon. It
also has a link my my publisher, Roman and Littlefield
(51:19):
was acquired by Bloomsbury, a UK very good publisher. So
there's a link to the blooms Bloomsbury site there where
you can order the book and it's you know, between us,
it's about ten dollars less to pay for the bill
and it is an Amazon so there's a tip.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Oh, okay, and then they could get in contact with
you on your website.
Speaker 2 (51:44):
That's right, that's right, and you know, you know, just
folks need to know that I have pledged eighty percent
of whatever royalties I received from the book to Kim
Cresby's health Care Trust. She's experiencing advanced Parkinson's disease, it
(52:07):
needs twenty four to seven care and her resources will
soon be running out. So by purchasing the book, it's
you're in effect making you know, a little donation to
her health care trust.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Wow, that is so great to know, and that is
so very kind of you to do. But that's the
kind of person you are. You're a very nice guy
and you want to help people, and that shows you.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Know.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Your passion for what you write about shows in your
book and when you speak folks, I highly encourage you
really buy this book, tell your friends about it, Tell
your friends about this show. Tell your friends about Edward L. Jones. Third,
everything about ed will be in the blog that Genie White,
(53:00):
the station manager, writes and produces the show. And I
want to thank you Ed for coming on again and
have to have you back on next year. And I
want to thank lil and colbol who's the CEO of
Pattiworle Talk Radio Network, who makes this all possible. And
want to thank you the listeners. Please describe to Chatting
(53:21):
with Betty's for free on Amazon Music. Spotify spreaker, tell
your friends about a show. I want to help as
many people as possible, and I can only do it
if you help me. And that's what the show is about.
I will discuss topics that most people find uncomfortable. I've
(53:43):
been talking about mental health before I even had a show.
I talked about mental health when I did videos in
my car. We need to remove the stigma of mental health.
We need to be informed when purchasing, when getting medication prescribed.
(54:04):
Do not be afraid to ask your doctor questions or
your pharmacist. As you have any question at all about medication.
You call your doctor, you insist that something's not right.
They might believe you. They may not believe you. I
wasn't believed and I made my case. But you would
have to be informed yourself, and that's why knowledge is power.
(54:30):
Then you have to do your research. It's very important.
And I want to thank you all for spending listening
and spending time out with me. If you want to
be I'm on Facebook. That's the e worzel w r
z e L. And as I always say at the
end of my show and the world that you could
(54:50):
be anything, Please be kind, shine your life right because
we need it now more than ever before. This is
that's your worthal You're a host of Check with Betsy.
I'm Passion World Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global
Media Network LLC. Be saved out there, everyone, Bye bye
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