October 20, 2025 • 51 mins
🎧 Discover how to turn retirement into your most exciting and meaningful chapter yet! 💡 Option 2 (Balanced, thoughtful tone)
Betsy Wurzel talks with author Don Akchin about how his book The AfterWork: Finding Fulfilling Alternatives to Retirement inspires people to approach life after full-time work with purpose and joy. Don prefers to call this stage AfterWork—a time to explore new passions, volunteer, mentor, or learn something new. He and Betsy also discuss overcoming ageism, embracing change, and finding meaning through creativity and connection.
🎵 Tune in to discover how redefining retirement can open doors to growth, gratitude, and lifelong learning.
📌 Enjoyed this talk? Hit Like, Subscribe, and share how you’re redefining your own retirement journey.
💡 Passionate World Talk Radio – Where real conversations matter.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
🎙 Passionate World Talk Radio Network LLC — Where real conversations matter.
Betsy Wurzel talks with author Don Akchin about how his book The AfterWork: Finding Fulfilling Alternatives to Retirement inspires people to approach life after full-time work with purpose and joy. Don prefers to call this stage AfterWork—a time to explore new passions, volunteer, mentor, or learn something new. He and Betsy also discuss overcoming ageism, embracing change, and finding meaning through creativity and connection.
🎵 Tune in to discover how redefining retirement can open doors to growth, gratitude, and lifelong learning.
📌 Enjoyed this talk? Hit Like, Subscribe, and share how you’re redefining your own retirement journey.
💡 Passionate World Talk Radio – Where real conversations matter.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
🎙 Passionate World Talk Radio Network LLC — Where real conversations matter.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, everyone, this is Betsy Worthel. You're a host of
Chatting with Betsy. I'm pastor Roll Talk Radium Network, a
subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC. I were a manstrous
to educate, enlightened, and entertain. The views of the guest
may not represent those of the host of the station.
(00:22):
So if you don't want to listen to my guests today,
because the book is fantastic, if you are planning retirement,
if you are retired, you're thinking about retirement. Even if
you are retired and you're thinking what do I do
with myself, you don't want to listen to my guests.
(00:43):
My guest today is Don Auction and you spell his
list name ak zhi n. He wrote this wonderful book,
The After Work, Finding Fulfilling Alternatives to Retirement. Don is
a former journalist and marketing professional whose career path was
(01:04):
littered with pomholds and zigzags, and so he discovers his
own life purpose in the f the work, he publishes
The End Game, a digital newsletter about aging with purpose
and joy, and folks are going to put the link
to the Endgame in the blog. Highly recommend you check
it out. Very important topics, and I think you will
(01:28):
enjoy it. Don Lizabeth his wife with Baltimore, and he's
close to this four grandchildren. And I want to welcome
Don auction to chatting with Betty.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Welcome Don, it's great here.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh you're welcome. I always ask the authors, what motivated
you to write this book, which, by the way, folks,
it's not a long book. It's very short, but it's
so powerful and it's so to the point. And I
love that the print of it, Don, I could read it.
(02:05):
I liked it even with my glasses on. So thank
you for that.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Great And to answer your question, I think what inspired
me to write it was retiring myself and not having
an easy time of it at first because what I
thought would happen didn't happen, and realizing that this is
probably true for a lot of people. I started talking
(02:31):
to friends and started interviewing people who were retired and
found that in fact, it's not what we thought it was.
In fact, I don't even like the word retirement, which
is why I call it the Afterwork, because I think
that retirement always had that taste of being the beginning
(02:55):
of the end. You know, it's a word that means
withdraw or to retreat, and retirement was was sort of
the reward, the cherry on the top of the cupcake
after you put in a hard life. But it wasn't
expected to be a very long U dessert it was.
It was basically short because you were all pretty much
(03:19):
all petered out at that point. And the afterlife is
not the end of anything. It's it can be the
beginning of something new. And that was that was my
point in naming it that.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I like that. I think that's a great idea. I
like that, and so I proposed I'm interviewing today Don
about the subject, about this topic, uh and your book
because in doing this show, I mean many people I
have interviewed people that are writing books. They're in their eighties,
(03:52):
nineties and very successful. So we're I think in the
in society we had this agism, you know, where we
have this idea. Okay, you know I put in my
forty fifty years of work. If you're fortunate, and now
(04:12):
what do I do once I no longer I am
at this place of employment? And you have a lot
of suggestions in your book, and I like that. Would
like to name some.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, I would and before I do that. Let me
just say I think what's happened is we've been blessed
with longer lives thanks yes, improvements in healthcare and medicine,
to the point that when you retire at sixty or
sixty five, you're now looking at another twenty five or
(04:50):
thirty years, and if you are in good health, those
most of those years can be very positive, meaningful years.
We were talking earlier that see about the fact that
we look at our ages and when we were younger
that seemed like very old people in those ages. But
(05:13):
now people in those ages are quite vigorous, and they
have their faculties, and they have their energy, and they
still have a lot of zest. So longevity has opened
up this possibility that we can begin something new at
the end of our lives. We don't have to we
(05:34):
don't have to just sit and wait for the grim reaper.
And twenty five or thirty years is really too long
to just play golf. It just is, yes, so we
might as well start something new. So what I have
outlined are basically four broad alternative things you can do
in this time. One is to keep working, which a
(05:59):
lot of people like to do because they love what
they do, and some people do because they can't afford
not to, but doing that full time is one choice.
Working part time in a gig or a side hustle
or just part time work to keep a little money
flowing in is also a really good way to meet
(06:22):
new people and get new experiences. Maybe even work in
a field that you don't know much about so you
can learn something new. The third alternative is taking your
hobby or your passion and creating a new business or
(06:44):
a new it doesn't have to be a business, but
really working your passion the things that you once cared
about and maybe had to put aside, something that you
really are very passionate about pursuing and got time to
do that. And it doesn't matter whether you're good at it,
It just matters that you're enjoying it.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yes, and that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, there you go. And the fourth alternative is to volunteer,
uh yeah, yeah, to really you bring your knowledge and
your experience to nonprofit organizations that do a lot of
the meaningful work in this country and and uh providing
the threads that sow are societies together. Uh, and they
(07:37):
they can definitely use help in any number of ways.
So those were those were the basics.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
That is a great points and I believe you're right.
I tell people in support groups and these are people
that were caregivers as i'm you know, within the caregiver
for so long as I am a caregiver that you know,
I suggest, you know, living in now, enjoy your loved one,
(08:06):
but start planning for your future. Plan what are you
going to do when your caregiving journey ends or when
your employment and when you're no longer employed. And this
is so important to think about because done there's especially widows,
(08:27):
well widowers too, but I think a lot of women
they're like, well, you know, what do I do now?
And some people lost their skills that they were caregiving
to time for caregiving have lost their skills. I think
if you had the time when your caregiving brush up
on some skills, maybe you could take a course, you know,
at your own pace.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, but I.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
It makes a lot of sense. And I know your
your own experience has been becoming a widow. And let
me ask you though, were you planning ahead, uh for
the end?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Or you know what you know? It done? Go ahead?
You can first ask me the question.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Go ahead, well, I personally, I think a lot of
people have a hard time imagining the future. Yes, I
think this is I think this is true in retirement also.
We can plan, or we can think we know what
it's going to be, but it's a surprise when we
get there.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah. Oh, yes, my story is interesting. People like to
hear stories. It's it's ironic in a way that Matt,
my husband, never planned retirement. He never talked about it
and planned it. And I because I would ask him, Matt,
what are we going to do when you retire? And
he said to me, I won't be alive. I'll make
(09:55):
you say that, because because the men of my family
don't live long, I won't be alive for retirement. And
and unfortunately Matt developed, for those who don't know, early,
I said Alzheimer's. So he stopped working at the age
of fifty five and lived for ten years. I didn't
(10:16):
think I would retire sixty two, and I wasn't planning
on it, but it was COVID. It was twenty twenty
that had had died and I was still working, and
I was going to work till I was sixty seven,
or if you know, if I couldn't for whatever reason
came up or the place closed, and it turned out
(10:37):
that COVID happened. My place closed, like every you know,
everything closed down, and they didn't reopen because I was debating, done,
I don't really want to go back? Do I really
want to do that anymore? Well, they made my decision
for me, and I am enjoying my after work. And
(10:58):
I liked that phrase, the work. I'm enjoying it. I
really I cannot believe, you know, I'll be sixty eight
in December, so it's almost six years. It's six years
in March that my place closed. That how fast the
time went. I'm not bored. I'm busy and I really
(11:20):
am grateful that I had this platform, my show that
keeps me busy, done and so grateful, and I did
turn my passion. I didn't know that I could interview people.
That was a surprise to me. And I was very
grateful to have met Jeanie White, who is the station
(11:41):
manager who discovered me. And you know, people say, well, Betty,
what do you do all day? I have no idea,
but this show keeps me happen, it keeps me busy,
keeps my mind working. I get taught to wonderful people
like you. And I'm passionate about telling people about resources
(12:03):
that get help and have a better life. And Don,
you are an excellent resource. Your book they have to
work as an excellent resource. I'm thinking, Wow, this should
be really in every place of employment or like they
have a library for someone to pick up and read.
This is so important.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
As that's from your lifts to God's ears.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Uh, you know, will help me do that? You know
it's of course, you know there's as yetish. I guess
you call a proverb. You know you want to hear
God left tell them your plans and I don't really
you know, life does have a twists and turns, and
(12:55):
we are living longer. And that's the thing with medical science,
we are living in long're You're right, you could have
twenty five to thirty more years after you stop working.
Some people have to stop working due to downside things.
Some have to because of medical conditions or care giving situations,
(13:18):
but that you don't plan on. And I was fortunate
that I was still able to work while caregiving. That's
because I had my son helping me. But I'm enjoying
life Don for the first time in my life. I'm
enjoying life.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Well, that's wonderful, and and my book, I hope will
inspire a lot of other people to enjoy what they
what they had before them, and to not expect that
it's it's just because you're in your sixties or your
seventies that your life is at it's end. And I
have to confess I didn't. I didn't start out optimistic.
(14:01):
I was kind of down about retiring at first. I
kind of was thinking, sort of like your husband, that
you know, the end was near, and I was kind
of looking forward to being done. But I got out
(14:21):
of it. I started out writing books in my retirement,
and I wrote a couple of novels and realized that
although that was what I thought I always wanted to do,
it was really lonely and it was hard to write
for two years and never get any feedback on whether
(14:41):
it was any good or not. And that bothered me.
And I was fortunate to hook up with a teacher
actually was she was creating a writing support group or
created support group. She was based in England, and it
(15:04):
was a combination of inspiration for being creative and also
a group that gave some feedback. One of the first
things that happened after I joined her group was somebody said, well,
maybe you should write short stuff more often, and I thought, well, yeah,
that makes sense. And I started my newsletter on substack.
(15:27):
It was more than four years ago, four and a
half years ago, and lo and behold, I would write
something and people would respond and I didn't have to
wait two years. I got response every week and that
made a huge difference and made me feel really like
my writing was doing something and people were reading it
(15:48):
and I was getting good feedback about it, and that
made all the difference to me. And that started me
reading more about how other people were handling their aid
and I turned into an optimist. I also read the
research Scary that it is this, when you have a
(16:10):
very you have a very positive outlook on life and
you feel good about being old, your life expectancy increases
by seven and a half years over those who have
a negative attitude. And I said, well, it's time to
get happy. So yeah, I'm going for the next for years.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Well, you know, I thought, I'm not ashamed of my age.
I will be sixty eighth Lord Willing in December, and
I'm you know, I'm not ashamed of it because I
feel so fortunate to still be alive after caregiving for
my mother in law and that and the stress of that.
(16:51):
I'm grateful that I am alive and I have learned
a home appreciation for a life living and even if
something goes wrong, like just passed on with my appliances
and I was a little down about it, and I said,
you know what that say, this is just a glitch, unhealthy,
(17:14):
and it's a glitch that could be taken care of.
There's a lot worse that could be wrong, that could
go wrong, and I'm grateful for what I do have,
and that's I think that's key. Also done is the
attitude of being grateful doesn't mean you have to like
things on life, folks. Let me make that clear that
I like my husband having old Timer's Absolutely not. I
(17:37):
hated it. But what I'm grateful for was the opportunity
to grow as a person, meet so many wonderful people
and find my gifts that I am now using to change,
hopefully change the world with the time that I have
left on this earth. I want to change the world
to using my platform.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
One of the things that you're talking about there is
the ability to uh to not let things upset you,
and to keep moving. And I have learned that the
name for that is resiliency, and that in retirement it's
really important to have it because, as I say, you
(18:21):
can plan all you want, but you will be surprised
by what happens. And if you're resilient, the surprises won't
set you back. You pick yourself up and you keep going. Uh.
And that's why it's really important to to be able
to roll with the punches, as.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
It were, to say that, Yeah, my dad used to
say that, had the punches go ahead.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I'm sorry, but but it's really important. I have a
I have a chapter in the book about planners and
people who wing it. And you know, there are people
in life and I am not one of them. My
wife is who work everything out in advance, in excruciating
(19:11):
detail and know exactly how it's gonna work, and they're
great at it, and I could never do that. I'm
more of a winger. I walk into a situation say okay,
now what. But my my contention is that whether you're
a planner or a winger, you're gonna need to be
(19:33):
resilient after you stopped your career because and as as
we get older, we have losses and we have things
that don't work anymore in our apartments and in our bodies.
So you know, it's there's surprises to the glory and
have to be resilient to overcome them.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That is that is very true. My dad used to
say to you all the time, that's you got to
learn your role the punches. I didn't get it at
the time. I understood as I've handed me punches one
after or another. And I used to say to my well,
I used to go to my father's grave and go,
Daddy'd be proud of me. I'm rolling with the punches.
(20:15):
I'm rolling with it. And it's so true. I mean,
I guess because and not to be morbid, but I
just working resiliency. Matt was sixty six when he died.
That's young today. My older brother was sixty seven. He
(20:36):
was retired, but he was still working. He was still
working part time. And you learn that life is so short,
life is precious. And I just feel like, you know,
I say this a lot on my show. I say
a lot and support groups to people. Life is work. Yes,
(21:01):
you can wollow and self pity if you want to.
I could do that I could have followed in self pity.
But what good is that going to do me? None? Zero.
I was not going to let Alzheimer's defeat me in life.
I was not going to let it have that power.
And that's why to encourage people. Don't let step backs.
(21:26):
And I know I'm so, I'll gree the rest of
my life for my husband, but don't let that rob
you of the joy of living. I want to encourage
people to buy your book and have his vest and
joy for living. You know, you talked, You've talked about volunteer.
I mentioned that all the time you don't know what
to do volunteer. There's I interviewed this man two years
(21:52):
ago already could be retired Colonel Cloyd Schmidt, and he
has veterans least patrol looking for volunteers, hospice volunteers, people
to make things for the veterans and to write letters
or to have the what they call gratitude cards, sending
(22:16):
them a thank you card, holiday cards. These are things
that people can do. And you don't have to leave
your house if you don't want to, you know, go
to a hospital, you know whatever. If you were a teacher,
you like to teach. See if there's a school that
you could adopt a class or or tutor. On the side.
There are so much that people can do done if
(22:38):
they would look past I want to say they're self pity.
That might sound harsh. I'm a Jersey girl. Everybody my
father's daughter, So I say it like it is. And
when you help someone else, do you feel better about yourself?
So it's twofold that.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I learned that very early. I was in a high
school one of those high school clubs that are service related,
and we would occasionally do things like deliver turkeys on Thanksgiving.
And whenever we did something like that, I called it
an inner glow project because that's how I felt. It
(23:24):
made me feel really good inside that I had done
something for somebody else. So I still enjoy finding those
inner globe moments.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yes, and I'd liked in your book Ho you give
examples of people who turned our hobby into a business,
which is, you know, awesome. And you know, I have
had a conversation with this with another author. People are afraid
of failing. Oh if I tried this, what happens if
(23:55):
I fail? What if you're going to think, well, first
of all, who cares what people think. Second of all,
my opinion, successful people, yes they did make mistakes, they
don't look at as failures. They look at it as
a learning experience. Okay, this didn't work out, so maybe
now I'll try experiment B. What did I learn from
(24:17):
this mistake? Where if you think it's a failure, don't
let it stop. You learn from me and go on.
Do you know how many people were told they couldn't
do something or they weren't good at something and they
became very successful. I could list a few off the
top of my head.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Many.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yes, you know it's so many. Yes. And you're right,
people are starting their second career. Some of them go ahead. None.
I was gonna say I have.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I'm seventy four, and I have reached the point where
I remind myself that it is physically impossible for me
to get embarrassed anymore. I've got nothing to be embarrassed
for you, And I think the point about the after
work is it's such a good opportunity to start something
(25:11):
new because you're done with all of the adulting things
you had to do. You raised your kids, you did
the job, you supported the family, you checked all the boxes,
you paid the mortgage, kept up with the bills, and
now pretty much you're done with all of that and
(25:36):
that those loads are not on you anymore. And while
it might have been important not to make a mistake
while you were trying to support a family, now it
doesn't matter. Nobody cares if you make a mistake. It's
not even a mistake. So try something, and it doesn't
matter if you're good at it, try it. If it
(25:57):
doesn't work, try harder, or give it up and try
something else. Nobody's watching, nobody's taking, nobody's keeping score. You're
not getting points deducted. You're really free to do everything
you want to do. And that is what I try
to encourage people in the book, is you really reach
(26:19):
the stage where you don't have to do the adulting
things anymore, so you can recapture those childhood ambitions and
see if they're still good.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Absolutely, I've interviewed many people who had their careers and
they always wanted to write, and so they tried their
hand in running a book. They became best sellers. That's great,
and that is and I said, you're such a testimony
of having another career because we have this society not
(26:54):
as you know, because you're seventy four, I'll be sixty eight.
Of oh, well, you know they are their role. They
can't do that, and that stigma has to go away
because we can do a lot of things. And you know,
your mind may not be a one hundred percent sharp
(27:15):
as it was when you were twenty five, but that's okay.
Or your body may not be as active as you
would like it to be, but you work with what
you have and you just keep going. I have to
tell you this time, and I'll tell the audience because
I'm an open book this show and I really thank
(27:36):
God that you white found me. Excuse me. This show
gives me a purpose. It really keeps me going. And
I started a show when Matt was dying and people
would say, Betsy, how can you do that when Matt
is dying? Well, because it helped me get my mind
(27:58):
off and not always concentrate on what is going to happen.
It was all life saver for me. I really felt
that I was thrown a life reft, a life jacket
and been doing it. And I promised Matt that I
would continue on. And if you are doing I want
(28:22):
to encourage people, and I'm sure you probably would agree
with me. Don of what you're doing now and you're
helping people and you're doing something and your partner spouse dies, Yes,
you had that grieving. You mean, I feel like doing it.
I want to encourage people. Keep on doing it if
you want to. But I think it really helps. And
(28:43):
you know, when Matt died, I'll be honest, I asked, well,
who's Betsy? Who am I? And do I still want
to you know, do old timer's awareness? And I went
to a social worker at the Senior Center because they
do free counseling, and she said, well, what do you
like to do? And she said, then that's Betsy, So
(29:05):
ask yourself what do you like to do?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
That's right. You know, you brought up a couple of
things I wanted to circle back to. You were talking
about purpose. One of the things that's really hard about
leaving a career, and this has been particularly true of
men who are very focused on their careers to the
(29:30):
exclusion of other things in life. When the career ends,
they are lost. There's this big hole in the middle
of their life and they don't really know what to
do about it. Sometimes they don't have any structure anymore.
(29:51):
And they don't know how to get it. They don't
have a purpose. They might feel guilt because they're not working,
which I've certainly felt. And it's a very difficult transition
for some people. Women somehow seem to make the transition
a little bit easier, And I think this has to
(30:13):
do with the fact that they've been multipurposing their whole lives.
So it's not like they have one thing and they
lose it. They have numerous things. They've been juggling their
whole lives, and so it's like one less ball, Well,
let's substitute a new ball and keep juggling. Men who
are very career focused, it's a different story. They put
(30:35):
all their effort into this one thing. Society encourages them
to do that, and then it stops. One of the
things I learned you might find this amusing, is that
in Japan, the psychiatrists have discovered their numality in the
(30:57):
last twenty years that roughly trans slates to husband retired syndrome.
It occurs among something like a third to a half
of Japanese women because the men who have been working
totally focus on their work for forty years suddenly come
(31:18):
home and the women don't know what to do with them.
They they want to get involved in what they're doing,
or they want to tell them how to do it better,
which they have no business doing, and the women are lost.
(31:39):
So we don't have it quite that bad. But more
than one person has said to me that when a
husband retires it's a feminist issue because they are there.
They really are some some times very lost. And so
one of the things that I talk about is that
(32:03):
this is a transition period, and transitions are tough, but
over time we get through them. And it's it's not
expected or natural that on Friday you stop working. On
Monday you have a whole new existence that you're very
happy with. It doesn't work that way. It takes a
(32:24):
while to sort of sort through your feelings and sort
through what it is you really want to do or
would like to do, and get up the confidence to
do something entirely new. So it's the transition hits a
lot of people in different ways. But that is one
(32:46):
thing that is a fact that many men experience.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yes, because of you know society, you're the bread winner.
So it's the working and then you know men, they
basically you know when they work I mean, I I'll
talk about my personal experience when that worked. That's all
he did. I mean, he took up the one. You know,
he he did the stuff outside. I did everything inside.
(33:18):
So you don't know what to do with yourself sometimes,
if you know, I got a lot of men who
might be different with the new generation. They don't even
know where things are in the house. It's like, you know,
where's this and it's just incredible. But yeah, that's the
(33:38):
big difference. What is how do you pronounce I like
this in your book where you had the Japanese he
had this diagram the ekey.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Guy echy guy.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, I wanted to know how to pronounce that. I
love that. Can you talk about that? I love that?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
It is an ikey guy is is a Japanese concept
about what it takes to find your passions. And it's
it's basically like gen diagrams, four of them overlapping. Uh.
And it's very hard to explain that it's really it's
a graphic thing. But what you're trying to do is
(34:25):
you're looking at those activities that I'm trying to find
the diagram here so I can talk about it intelligently.
You're trying to find what it is that you love,
what it is that you're good at, what it is
that the world needs, and what you can get paid for,
(34:46):
and where they overlap, where all four of them overlap.
In the center is your eky guy, which is your
your life purpose. It's an interesting way to try to
plan a new career or to try to think about
what you can do next.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah. I really like that. I I really do. When
I was looking at it and I said, Wow, that
is uh for me. That was powerful and that's what
I have done. I found a passion or it found me.
(35:30):
I mean, if someone that if someone has told me,
let's say, my show is six years old, I've no
passional talk rate of seven years with the taught Genie show. First,
and anybody would have told me I would be introdewing people.
I would have said, you're nuts. I was just wanting
to said you're crazy. There's no way I'd be doing that.
(35:54):
And here I am doing it and I enjoyed doing it,
and I really it gives me a purpose. And you know,
when I get feedback, it really makes me feel good
about myself.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Right, and you're you're doing something that other people appreciate
and and and say, see the value that you're giving them.
That's got to feel good.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
And you know it wouldn't Yeah, yeah, you know, we
know always get feedback, but and it really as nice
when when when you do. But I feel like, and
I say this on my show a lot, I wish
(36:46):
I knew about resources during my caregiving with Matt. I
wish they were available. I wish the information was available.
And I think it's so important for people to know
they're not alone. People think, oh, I'm alone, and how
I feel They're not alone. You're not alone people. This
(37:08):
is why I want people to know. I'm doing shameless
plug here about my show because I have people on
like you don that your excellent resource. People should know
about you. People should know about your book. They should
start thinking about as I could they after work, finding
(37:30):
fulfilling alternatives to retirement. And I like how you you
mentioned before we start to record, it's not just a
financial planning, it's I think emotional. It's at so many
different perspectives of planning and once you stop working, finding
(37:52):
that emotional fulfillment, I think that's.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
What surprises people the most. They don't anticipate the things
are going to change, like relationships with your spouse might
change because of the dynamic. May very well change because
you're both home, or because one of you is still
working and the other one's not working and feels guilty
(38:17):
that they're not working, which was true of my situation.
My wife was still going full time while I retired,
and you know, all this cultural messaging about you must work,
you must be productive, you must contribute made me feel
really bad that I was sitting there and not doing anything,
(38:39):
and here she was slave in a way, you know,
her usual eighty hours a week and I was taking
it easy and it didn't feel right. We got over it,
but still it's you know, we have these messages and
then things change and we don't expect the psychological or
(39:01):
the emotional turmoil is that creates. So yeah, said much
about the financial You know, I don't. I ignore the
financial and I ignore the health. I really talk about
the impact of our emotions and how these dynamics change,
and what we can do about them, and how we
(39:22):
can take a more positive spin on it.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
That's what I liked about your book. Your book is different,
and that that's one of the many things I liked
about your book because you didn't talk about the financial planning.
Your book is practical. People can pick us up and
say like, oh, wow, you know what I really like
to cook? I always wanted to be a baker or
(39:46):
a chef. Maybe I should try my my you know,
doing like a little side business and see how that goes.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
And the reason I don't talk about finances is because
I I resist the temptation to write about things that
I know nothing about.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I understand that that's well, that's important, right, but when
you live in the right, that's important. When you live
in you know, an experience. And and also dont you
point out in your book of I remember correctly what
did you call it? Great divorces? Like people have been
(40:27):
married for many years, forty years and they get divorced
during their It does happen, because yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
I was fortunate in my case we used the I
know COVID was a very disruptive time for many people,
but for my wife and I it was a dry
run on retirement because we were house bound together for
a year or two. Uh, and we discovered that we
were still friends. And that was good because then when
(41:02):
I retired, we didn't have to go through that again,
we knew going to work out.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, yeah, that had a pre uh well I call
a dry run, you know when you go somewhere that
was yeah, I could say where, Yeah, Paul, it's gonna happen,
because you know, if the wife is still working and
the husband is at home, and you know, she might
(41:31):
say why don't you vacuum or why don't you do
a laundry and the guy goes, I don't know how
to do it, or you know, that's that's their sexist
that's a woman's work. Or you know, the husband might
be critical of the wife. What are you doing that for?
You know, things that you don't you didn't notice about
each other because you were so busy, you're now noticing.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
And and the other thing that happens is these the
people who retire after being in a corporate environment and
they are looking for someone to type their correspondence for them,
and they've turned to their wife. And I'm not your secretary.
He doesn't have a secretary, he doesn't have someone to
make the zerox copies anymore. He you know, it's a
(42:19):
it's a strange feeling, but you don't you don't make
your spouse your your aid and assistant smoothly. It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yes, yes, uh, I really enjoy talking to you darn
about your book. What would you like? And I know
there's many things that the reader that can take away.
What would you like the readers to take away? What
are some of the things that are important that you
would like the readers to take away from your book?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I think the most important thing is to realize that
we've been gifted with some extra years. The longevity that
we have has really made the old form of retirement obsolete,
and retirement was the beginning of the end in the
old formulation. In my estimation, the afterwork is not the
(43:18):
beginning of the end. It can be the beginning of
something new and very exciting. And I think that would
be the main thing I would like to leave. We
can find new reasons to be alive, new purpose, things
that really are for our own enjoyment, and we don't
(43:39):
have to feel guilty about them, and we have enough
time that we can really pursue them in earnest And
that's the message.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I love that. That is so awesome and that's true. See,
you have time, as they say, to smell the roads,
you know, see the beauty. Hear the birds. I just
into someone should did a book about and it was
all through the eyes of animals, birds, And I learned
(44:10):
to appreciate my bird sounds when I go outside now
and you know I it is and the gratitude it's
just really helps a lot. And let me tell you, folks,
I was not always a grateful person. I wasn't a
very pessimistic person. Believe me, I really was. I saw
(44:31):
the glasses half empty all the time. It took my
journey to really appreciate. That's journey to really appreciate life
and how fragile and how precious it is. And then
you know you're right. When I was in the nerse,
when I worked in nursing home as a teenager, I thought, Wow,
(44:55):
these people are sixty five and older. Some might have
been a little younger. They're old, man, I'm going to
be decribed it at sixty five. And I think us
baby boomers, we're changing aging. We're changing how people view aging.
We are living longer, thankfully to medicine, and we have
(45:16):
productive lives. And I want to tell young people, because
young people hear this show, learn from your elders that
we can be mentors, think about being a mentor, even
we could mentor young people. We are history books, Our
elders are history books. We can learn from them, and
(45:40):
there's so much to learn from people, their history, their experience,
and share their stories. I'm so glad they've contacted me,
Don about coming on the show and discussing your book.
Excuse me, where can people purchase your book?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
The book is available on Amazon and if you just
look for the title the Afterwork Finding Fulfilling Alternatives to Retirement,
it will pop up. You can also read about it
on my web my web page which is Don Auction
d O N A K C h I M dot com.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
I've been just going to ask you how can people
get in touch with you? And you just there Don Auction, Folks,
go on the website, go on Done's website. I highly
recommend it and read the Oracles his The Endgame and
a while back, I'll get a little history. Well, three
(46:53):
years ago I met Don Don had me on his show.
You said, have a podcast called The Endgames, and I
was on it, and I thank you for uh that opportunity. Done.
I really appreciate it and I'm glad I was able
to have you on on my show, and I thank
you for contacting me and for writing this book. It's
(47:15):
a very important book, I really and it's a fair thread.
It's it's short, to the point book. I just want
to say how many pages it is. It's and you
have resource notes in the back too, which are good.
It is eighty seven pages. Folks can read that so
(47:36):
watching TV read that, I take an hour or two.
Excuse me, I sat down. I actually read it this
morning and I was really inspired. And I just think
you did a great job. So best wishes on your book.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Thank you, Bet great talking to you too.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Oh you are welcome and my pleasure, folks. All the
information about don auction will be in the blind the
Genie White to the station manager writes and Genie produces
the show. You know what, holiday times coming around before
you know it. This will make a great gift that
really would they have to work finding fulfilling allternatives to retirement.
(48:27):
You know what. This is a book I think even
young people should read. I think is a great gift
to give to your parent, grandparent, uncle, un However, this
is a very important book because even people in their
forties might be thinking, what am I gods do when
I retire. That might seem a long time away. But
(48:48):
life goes by pretty fast, doesn't it done, It goes
but very quickly. It goes by very quickly. And I
can't believe I'll be retired six years in March. Doesn't
seem like it underwhere when I don't even know where
the days go to. It goes by very quickly at
the time. And I'm just grateful. I really am grateful
(49:12):
that I get to talk to people like Don and
read wonderful books. And thank you for sending me the book, Don.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Oh my pleasure. And I am grateful that you have
invited me on your show and given me a chance
to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Oh absolutely, you or more than welcome to come back
and talk about something else if you want, you just
let me know. And I want to thank everyone for
listening and subscribing. If you don't even really subscribe to
Chatting with Betsy, it is for free. I'm on Spotify, Spreaker,
(49:51):
i Heeart, Amazon Music. Please share this show. I want
to reach as many people as possible. I want people
to know they're not alone, there's resources, there's enjoy living.
I will you all, everyone to have a better quality
of life, a better outlook on life, one that I
(50:11):
wish I would have had in my youth and I
have it now, but it took me to my sixties
to have it, folks. So if you could flip your
attitude in your youth, do it. That's what I suggest.
And I want to thank Liland Coldwell, who's CEO a
passional talk radio. It makes this all possible. And as
(50:35):
I'm always saying, you could follow me on Facebook, that's
ce Worzel w r Zel could take a look at
my life. You could see pictures of Matt, my son,
my dementia awareness that I do usually daily. And I'm
just here for you all, and I want to thank
(50:55):
you all for listening and subscribing. Means a lot to me.
And as I always say at the end of my show,
in a world that you could be anything, please be
kind and shine your life bright because we need it
now more than ever before. This is Betsy Wortheal. You're
a host of Chatting with Betsy A. Pasha. Old Talk
(51:17):
Radio Network a subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC. Bye
bye now
Hello, everyone, this is Betsy Worthel. You're a host of
Chatting with Betsy. I'm pastor Roll Talk Radium Network, a
subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC. I were a manstrous
to educate, enlightened, and entertain. The views of the guest
may not represent those of the host of the station.
(00:22):
So if you don't want to listen to my guests today,
because the book is fantastic, if you are planning retirement,
if you are retired, you're thinking about retirement. Even if
you are retired and you're thinking what do I do
with myself, you don't want to listen to my guests.
(00:43):
My guest today is Don Auction and you spell his
list name ak zhi n. He wrote this wonderful book,
The After Work, Finding Fulfilling Alternatives to Retirement. Don is
a former journalist and marketing professional whose career path was
(01:04):
littered with pomholds and zigzags, and so he discovers his
own life purpose in the f the work, he publishes
The End Game, a digital newsletter about aging with purpose
and joy, and folks are going to put the link
to the Endgame in the blog. Highly recommend you check
it out. Very important topics, and I think you will
(01:28):
enjoy it. Don Lizabeth his wife with Baltimore, and he's
close to this four grandchildren. And I want to welcome
Don auction to chatting with Betty.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Welcome Don, it's great here.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Oh you're welcome. I always ask the authors, what motivated
you to write this book, which, by the way, folks,
it's not a long book. It's very short, but it's
so powerful and it's so to the point. And I
love that the print of it, Don, I could read it.
(02:05):
I liked it even with my glasses on. So thank
you for that.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Great And to answer your question, I think what inspired
me to write it was retiring myself and not having
an easy time of it at first because what I
thought would happen didn't happen, and realizing that this is
probably true for a lot of people. I started talking
(02:31):
to friends and started interviewing people who were retired and
found that in fact, it's not what we thought it was.
In fact, I don't even like the word retirement, which
is why I call it the Afterwork, because I think
that retirement always had that taste of being the beginning
(02:55):
of the end. You know, it's a word that means
withdraw or to retreat, and retirement was was sort of
the reward, the cherry on the top of the cupcake
after you put in a hard life. But it wasn't
expected to be a very long U dessert it was.
It was basically short because you were all pretty much
(03:19):
all petered out at that point. And the afterlife is
not the end of anything. It's it can be the
beginning of something new. And that was that was my
point in naming it that.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
I like that. I think that's a great idea. I
like that, and so I proposed I'm interviewing today Don
about the subject, about this topic, uh and your book
because in doing this show, I mean many people I
have interviewed people that are writing books. They're in their eighties,
(03:52):
nineties and very successful. So we're I think in the
in society we had this agism, you know, where we
have this idea. Okay, you know I put in my
forty fifty years of work. If you're fortunate, and now
(04:12):
what do I do once I no longer I am
at this place of employment? And you have a lot
of suggestions in your book, and I like that. Would
like to name some.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Well, I would and before I do that. Let me
just say I think what's happened is we've been blessed
with longer lives thanks yes, improvements in healthcare and medicine,
to the point that when you retire at sixty or
sixty five, you're now looking at another twenty five or
(04:50):
thirty years, and if you are in good health, those
most of those years can be very positive, meaningful years.
We were talking earlier that see about the fact that
we look at our ages and when we were younger
that seemed like very old people in those ages. But
(05:13):
now people in those ages are quite vigorous, and they
have their faculties, and they have their energy, and they
still have a lot of zest. So longevity has opened
up this possibility that we can begin something new at
the end of our lives. We don't have to we
(05:34):
don't have to just sit and wait for the grim reaper.
And twenty five or thirty years is really too long
to just play golf. It just is, yes, so we
might as well start something new. So what I have
outlined are basically four broad alternative things you can do
in this time. One is to keep working, which a
(05:59):
lot of people like to do because they love what
they do, and some people do because they can't afford
not to, but doing that full time is one choice.
Working part time in a gig or a side hustle
or just part time work to keep a little money
flowing in is also a really good way to meet
(06:22):
new people and get new experiences. Maybe even work in
a field that you don't know much about so you
can learn something new. The third alternative is taking your
hobby or your passion and creating a new business or
(06:44):
a new it doesn't have to be a business, but
really working your passion the things that you once cared
about and maybe had to put aside, something that you
really are very passionate about pursuing and got time to
do that. And it doesn't matter whether you're good at it,
It just matters that you're enjoying it.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yes, and that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, there you go. And the fourth alternative is to volunteer,
uh yeah, yeah, to really you bring your knowledge and
your experience to nonprofit organizations that do a lot of
the meaningful work in this country and and uh providing
the threads that sow are societies together. Uh, and they
(07:37):
they can definitely use help in any number of ways.
So those were those were the basics.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
That is a great points and I believe you're right.
I tell people in support groups and these are people
that were caregivers as i'm you know, within the caregiver
for so long as I am a caregiver that you know,
I suggest, you know, living in now, enjoy your loved one,
(08:06):
but start planning for your future. Plan what are you
going to do when your caregiving journey ends or when
your employment and when you're no longer employed. And this
is so important to think about because done there's especially widows,
(08:27):
well widowers too, but I think a lot of women
they're like, well, you know, what do I do now?
And some people lost their skills that they were caregiving
to time for caregiving have lost their skills. I think
if you had the time when your caregiving brush up
on some skills, maybe you could take a course, you know,
at your own pace.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yeah, but I.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
It makes a lot of sense. And I know your
your own experience has been becoming a widow. And let
me ask you though, were you planning ahead, uh for
the end?
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Or you know what you know? It done? Go ahead?
You can first ask me the question.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Go ahead, well, I personally, I think a lot of
people have a hard time imagining the future. Yes, I
think this is I think this is true in retirement also.
We can plan, or we can think we know what
it's going to be, but it's a surprise when we
get there.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah. Oh, yes, my story is interesting. People like to
hear stories. It's it's ironic in a way that Matt,
my husband, never planned retirement. He never talked about it
and planned it. And I because I would ask him, Matt,
what are we going to do when you retire? And
he said to me, I won't be alive. I'll make
(09:55):
you say that, because because the men of my family
don't live long, I won't be alive for retirement. And
and unfortunately Matt developed, for those who don't know, early,
I said Alzheimer's. So he stopped working at the age
of fifty five and lived for ten years. I didn't
(10:16):
think I would retire sixty two, and I wasn't planning
on it, but it was COVID. It was twenty twenty
that had had died and I was still working, and
I was going to work till I was sixty seven,
or if you know, if I couldn't for whatever reason
came up or the place closed, and it turned out
(10:37):
that COVID happened. My place closed, like every you know,
everything closed down, and they didn't reopen because I was debating, done,
I don't really want to go back? Do I really
want to do that anymore? Well, they made my decision
for me, and I am enjoying my after work. And
(10:58):
I liked that phrase, the work. I'm enjoying it. I
really I cannot believe, you know, I'll be sixty eight
in December, so it's almost six years. It's six years
in March that my place closed. That how fast the
time went. I'm not bored. I'm busy and I really
(11:20):
am grateful that I had this platform, my show that
keeps me busy, done and so grateful, and I did
turn my passion. I didn't know that I could interview people.
That was a surprise to me. And I was very
grateful to have met Jeanie White, who is the station
(11:41):
manager who discovered me. And you know, people say, well, Betty,
what do you do all day? I have no idea,
but this show keeps me happen, it keeps me busy,
keeps my mind working. I get taught to wonderful people
like you. And I'm passionate about telling people about resources
(12:03):
that get help and have a better life. And Don,
you are an excellent resource. Your book they have to
work as an excellent resource. I'm thinking, Wow, this should
be really in every place of employment or like they
have a library for someone to pick up and read.
This is so important.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
As that's from your lifts to God's ears.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Uh, you know, will help me do that? You know
it's of course, you know there's as yetish. I guess
you call a proverb. You know you want to hear
God left tell them your plans and I don't really
you know, life does have a twists and turns, and
(12:55):
we are living longer. And that's the thing with medical science,
we are living in long're You're right, you could have
twenty five to thirty more years after you stop working.
Some people have to stop working due to downside things.
Some have to because of medical conditions or care giving situations,
(13:18):
but that you don't plan on. And I was fortunate
that I was still able to work while caregiving. That's
because I had my son helping me. But I'm enjoying
life Don for the first time in my life. I'm
enjoying life.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Well, that's wonderful, and and my book, I hope will
inspire a lot of other people to enjoy what they
what they had before them, and to not expect that
it's it's just because you're in your sixties or your
seventies that your life is at it's end. And I
have to confess I didn't. I didn't start out optimistic.
(14:01):
I was kind of down about retiring at first. I
kind of was thinking, sort of like your husband, that
you know, the end was near, and I was kind
of looking forward to being done. But I got out
(14:21):
of it. I started out writing books in my retirement,
and I wrote a couple of novels and realized that
although that was what I thought I always wanted to do,
it was really lonely and it was hard to write
for two years and never get any feedback on whether
(14:41):
it was any good or not. And that bothered me.
And I was fortunate to hook up with a teacher
actually was she was creating a writing support group or
created support group. She was based in England, and it
(15:04):
was a combination of inspiration for being creative and also
a group that gave some feedback. One of the first
things that happened after I joined her group was somebody said, well,
maybe you should write short stuff more often, and I thought, well, yeah,
that makes sense. And I started my newsletter on substack.
(15:27):
It was more than four years ago, four and a
half years ago, and lo and behold, I would write
something and people would respond and I didn't have to
wait two years. I got response every week and that
made a huge difference and made me feel really like
my writing was doing something and people were reading it
(15:48):
and I was getting good feedback about it, and that
made all the difference to me. And that started me
reading more about how other people were handling their aid
and I turned into an optimist. I also read the
research Scary that it is this, when you have a
(16:10):
very you have a very positive outlook on life and
you feel good about being old, your life expectancy increases
by seven and a half years over those who have
a negative attitude. And I said, well, it's time to
get happy. So yeah, I'm going for the next for years.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Well, you know, I thought, I'm not ashamed of my age.
I will be sixty eighth Lord Willing in December, and
I'm you know, I'm not ashamed of it because I
feel so fortunate to still be alive after caregiving for
my mother in law and that and the stress of that.
(16:51):
I'm grateful that I am alive and I have learned
a home appreciation for a life living and even if
something goes wrong, like just passed on with my appliances
and I was a little down about it, and I said,
you know what that say, this is just a glitch, unhealthy,
(17:14):
and it's a glitch that could be taken care of.
There's a lot worse that could be wrong, that could
go wrong, and I'm grateful for what I do have,
and that's I think that's key. Also done is the
attitude of being grateful doesn't mean you have to like
things on life, folks. Let me make that clear that
I like my husband having old Timer's Absolutely not. I
(17:37):
hated it. But what I'm grateful for was the opportunity
to grow as a person, meet so many wonderful people
and find my gifts that I am now using to change,
hopefully change the world with the time that I have
left on this earth. I want to change the world
to using my platform.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
One of the things that you're talking about there is
the ability to uh to not let things upset you,
and to keep moving. And I have learned that the
name for that is resiliency, and that in retirement it's
really important to have it because, as I say, you
(18:21):
can plan all you want, but you will be surprised
by what happens. And if you're resilient, the surprises won't
set you back. You pick yourself up and you keep going. Uh.
And that's why it's really important to to be able
to roll with the punches, as.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
It were, to say that, Yeah, my dad used to
say that, had the punches go ahead.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
I'm sorry, but but it's really important. I have a
I have a chapter in the book about planners and
people who wing it. And you know, there are people
in life and I am not one of them. My
wife is who work everything out in advance, in excruciating
(19:11):
detail and know exactly how it's gonna work, and they're
great at it, and I could never do that. I'm
more of a winger. I walk into a situation say okay,
now what. But my my contention is that whether you're
a planner or a winger, you're gonna need to be
(19:33):
resilient after you stopped your career because and as as
we get older, we have losses and we have things
that don't work anymore in our apartments and in our bodies.
So you know, it's there's surprises to the glory and
have to be resilient to overcome them.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
That is that is very true. My dad used to
say to you all the time, that's you got to
learn your role the punches. I didn't get it at
the time. I understood as I've handed me punches one
after or another. And I used to say to my well,
I used to go to my father's grave and go,
Daddy'd be proud of me. I'm rolling with the punches.
(20:15):
I'm rolling with it. And it's so true. I mean,
I guess because and not to be morbid, but I
just working resiliency. Matt was sixty six when he died.
That's young today. My older brother was sixty seven. He
(20:36):
was retired, but he was still working. He was still
working part time. And you learn that life is so short,
life is precious. And I just feel like, you know,
I say this a lot on my show. I say
a lot and support groups to people. Life is work. Yes,
(21:01):
you can wollow and self pity if you want to.
I could do that I could have followed in self pity.
But what good is that going to do me? None? Zero.
I was not going to let Alzheimer's defeat me in life.
I was not going to let it have that power.
And that's why to encourage people. Don't let step backs.
(21:26):
And I know I'm so, I'll gree the rest of
my life for my husband, but don't let that rob
you of the joy of living. I want to encourage
people to buy your book and have his vest and
joy for living. You know, you talked, You've talked about volunteer.
I mentioned that all the time you don't know what
to do volunteer. There's I interviewed this man two years
(21:52):
ago already could be retired Colonel Cloyd Schmidt, and he
has veterans least patrol looking for volunteers, hospice volunteers, people
to make things for the veterans and to write letters
or to have the what they call gratitude cards, sending
(22:16):
them a thank you card, holiday cards. These are things
that people can do. And you don't have to leave
your house if you don't want to, you know, go
to a hospital, you know whatever. If you were a teacher,
you like to teach. See if there's a school that
you could adopt a class or or tutor. On the side.
There are so much that people can do done if
(22:38):
they would look past I want to say they're self pity.
That might sound harsh. I'm a Jersey girl. Everybody my
father's daughter, So I say it like it is. And
when you help someone else, do you feel better about yourself?
So it's twofold that.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I learned that very early. I was in a high
school one of those high school clubs that are service related,
and we would occasionally do things like deliver turkeys on Thanksgiving.
And whenever we did something like that, I called it
an inner glow project because that's how I felt. It
(23:24):
made me feel really good inside that I had done
something for somebody else. So I still enjoy finding those
inner globe moments.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Yes, and I'd liked in your book Ho you give
examples of people who turned our hobby into a business,
which is, you know, awesome. And you know, I have
had a conversation with this with another author. People are afraid
of failing. Oh if I tried this, what happens if
(23:55):
I fail? What if you're going to think, well, first
of all, who cares what people think. Second of all,
my opinion, successful people, yes they did make mistakes, they
don't look at as failures. They look at it as
a learning experience. Okay, this didn't work out, so maybe
now I'll try experiment B. What did I learn from
(24:17):
this mistake? Where if you think it's a failure, don't
let it stop. You learn from me and go on.
Do you know how many people were told they couldn't
do something or they weren't good at something and they
became very successful. I could list a few off the
top of my head.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Many.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
Yes, you know it's so many. Yes. And you're right,
people are starting their second career. Some of them go ahead. None.
I was gonna say I have.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
I'm seventy four, and I have reached the point where
I remind myself that it is physically impossible for me
to get embarrassed anymore. I've got nothing to be embarrassed
for you, And I think the point about the after
work is it's such a good opportunity to start something
(25:11):
new because you're done with all of the adulting things
you had to do. You raised your kids, you did
the job, you supported the family, you checked all the boxes,
you paid the mortgage, kept up with the bills, and
now pretty much you're done with all of that and
(25:36):
that those loads are not on you anymore. And while
it might have been important not to make a mistake
while you were trying to support a family, now it
doesn't matter. Nobody cares if you make a mistake. It's
not even a mistake. So try something, and it doesn't
matter if you're good at it, try it. If it
(25:57):
doesn't work, try harder, or give it up and try
something else. Nobody's watching, nobody's taking, nobody's keeping score. You're
not getting points deducted. You're really free to do everything
you want to do. And that is what I try
to encourage people in the book, is you really reach
(26:19):
the stage where you don't have to do the adulting
things anymore, so you can recapture those childhood ambitions and
see if they're still good.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Absolutely, I've interviewed many people who had their careers and
they always wanted to write, and so they tried their
hand in running a book. They became best sellers. That's great,
and that is and I said, you're such a testimony
of having another career because we have this society not
(26:54):
as you know, because you're seventy four, I'll be sixty eight.
Of oh, well, you know they are their role. They
can't do that, and that stigma has to go away
because we can do a lot of things. And you know,
your mind may not be a one hundred percent sharp
(27:15):
as it was when you were twenty five, but that's okay.
Or your body may not be as active as you
would like it to be, but you work with what
you have and you just keep going. I have to
tell you this time, and I'll tell the audience because
I'm an open book this show and I really thank
(27:36):
God that you white found me. Excuse me. This show
gives me a purpose. It really keeps me going. And
I started a show when Matt was dying and people
would say, Betsy, how can you do that when Matt
is dying? Well, because it helped me get my mind
(27:58):
off and not always concentrate on what is going to happen.
It was all life saver for me. I really felt
that I was thrown a life reft, a life jacket
and been doing it. And I promised Matt that I
would continue on. And if you are doing I want
(28:22):
to encourage people, and I'm sure you probably would agree
with me. Don of what you're doing now and you're
helping people and you're doing something and your partner spouse dies, Yes,
you had that grieving. You mean, I feel like doing it.
I want to encourage people. Keep on doing it if
you want to. But I think it really helps. And
(28:43):
you know, when Matt died, I'll be honest, I asked, well,
who's Betsy? Who am I? And do I still want
to you know, do old timer's awareness? And I went
to a social worker at the Senior Center because they
do free counseling, and she said, well, what do you
like to do? And she said, then that's Betsy, So
(29:05):
ask yourself what do you like to do?
Speaker 2 (29:09):
That's right. You know, you brought up a couple of
things I wanted to circle back to. You were talking
about purpose. One of the things that's really hard about
leaving a career, and this has been particularly true of
men who are very focused on their careers to the
(29:30):
exclusion of other things in life. When the career ends,
they are lost. There's this big hole in the middle
of their life and they don't really know what to
do about it. Sometimes they don't have any structure anymore.
(29:51):
And they don't know how to get it. They don't
have a purpose. They might feel guilt because they're not working,
which I've certainly felt. And it's a very difficult transition
for some people. Women somehow seem to make the transition
a little bit easier, And I think this has to
(30:13):
do with the fact that they've been multipurposing their whole lives.
So it's not like they have one thing and they
lose it. They have numerous things. They've been juggling their
whole lives, and so it's like one less ball, Well,
let's substitute a new ball and keep juggling. Men who
are very career focused, it's a different story. They put
(30:35):
all their effort into this one thing. Society encourages them
to do that, and then it stops. One of the
things I learned you might find this amusing, is that
in Japan, the psychiatrists have discovered their numality in the
(30:57):
last twenty years that roughly trans slates to husband retired syndrome.
It occurs among something like a third to a half
of Japanese women because the men who have been working
totally focus on their work for forty years suddenly come
(31:18):
home and the women don't know what to do with them.
They they want to get involved in what they're doing,
or they want to tell them how to do it better,
which they have no business doing, and the women are lost.
(31:39):
So we don't have it quite that bad. But more
than one person has said to me that when a
husband retires it's a feminist issue because they are there.
They really are some some times very lost. And so
one of the things that I talk about is that
(32:03):
this is a transition period, and transitions are tough, but
over time we get through them. And it's it's not
expected or natural that on Friday you stop working. On
Monday you have a whole new existence that you're very
happy with. It doesn't work that way. It takes a
(32:24):
while to sort of sort through your feelings and sort
through what it is you really want to do or
would like to do, and get up the confidence to
do something entirely new. So it's the transition hits a
lot of people in different ways. But that is one
(32:46):
thing that is a fact that many men experience.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Yes, because of you know society, you're the bread winner.
So it's the working and then you know men, they
basically you know when they work I mean, I I'll
talk about my personal experience when that worked. That's all
he did. I mean, he took up the one. You know,
he he did the stuff outside. I did everything inside.
(33:18):
So you don't know what to do with yourself sometimes,
if you know, I got a lot of men who
might be different with the new generation. They don't even
know where things are in the house. It's like, you know,
where's this and it's just incredible. But yeah, that's the
(33:38):
big difference. What is how do you pronounce I like
this in your book where you had the Japanese he
had this diagram the ekey.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
Guy echy guy.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, I wanted to know how to pronounce that. I
love that. Can you talk about that? I love that?
Speaker 2 (34:02):
It is an ikey guy is is a Japanese concept
about what it takes to find your passions. And it's
it's basically like gen diagrams, four of them overlapping. Uh.
And it's very hard to explain that it's really it's
a graphic thing. But what you're trying to do is
(34:25):
you're looking at those activities that I'm trying to find
the diagram here so I can talk about it intelligently.
You're trying to find what it is that you love,
what it is that you're good at, what it is
that the world needs, and what you can get paid for,
(34:46):
and where they overlap, where all four of them overlap.
In the center is your eky guy, which is your
your life purpose. It's an interesting way to try to
plan a new career or to try to think about
what you can do next.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah. I really like that. I I really do. When
I was looking at it and I said, Wow, that
is uh for me. That was powerful and that's what
I have done. I found a passion or it found me.
(35:30):
I mean, if someone that if someone has told me,
let's say, my show is six years old, I've no
passional talk rate of seven years with the taught Genie show. First,
and anybody would have told me I would be introdewing people.
I would have said, you're nuts. I was just wanting
to said you're crazy. There's no way I'd be doing that.
(35:54):
And here I am doing it and I enjoyed doing it,
and I really it gives me a purpose. And you know,
when I get feedback, it really makes me feel good
about myself.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Right, and you're you're doing something that other people appreciate
and and and say, see the value that you're giving them.
That's got to feel good.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
And you know it wouldn't Yeah, yeah, you know, we
know always get feedback, but and it really as nice
when when when you do. But I feel like, and
I say this on my show a lot, I wish
(36:46):
I knew about resources during my caregiving with Matt. I
wish they were available. I wish the information was available.
And I think it's so important for people to know
they're not alone. People think, oh, I'm alone, and how
I feel They're not alone. You're not alone people. This
(37:08):
is why I want people to know. I'm doing shameless
plug here about my show because I have people on
like you don that your excellent resource. People should know
about you. People should know about your book. They should
start thinking about as I could they after work, finding
(37:30):
fulfilling alternatives to retirement. And I like how you you
mentioned before we start to record, it's not just a
financial planning, it's I think emotional. It's at so many
different perspectives of planning and once you stop working, finding
(37:52):
that emotional fulfillment, I think that's.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
What surprises people the most. They don't anticipate the things
are going to change, like relationships with your spouse might
change because of the dynamic. May very well change because
you're both home, or because one of you is still
working and the other one's not working and feels guilty
(38:17):
that they're not working, which was true of my situation.
My wife was still going full time while I retired,
and you know, all this cultural messaging about you must work,
you must be productive, you must contribute made me feel
really bad that I was sitting there and not doing anything,
(38:39):
and here she was slave in a way, you know,
her usual eighty hours a week and I was taking
it easy and it didn't feel right. We got over it,
but still it's you know, we have these messages and
then things change and we don't expect the psychological or
(39:01):
the emotional turmoil is that creates. So yeah, said much
about the financial You know, I don't. I ignore the
financial and I ignore the health. I really talk about
the impact of our emotions and how these dynamics change,
and what we can do about them, and how we
(39:22):
can take a more positive spin on it.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
That's what I liked about your book. Your book is different,
and that that's one of the many things I liked
about your book because you didn't talk about the financial planning.
Your book is practical. People can pick us up and
say like, oh, wow, you know what I really like
to cook? I always wanted to be a baker or
(39:46):
a chef. Maybe I should try my my you know,
doing like a little side business and see how that goes.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
And the reason I don't talk about finances is because
I I resist the temptation to write about things that
I know nothing about.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I understand that that's well, that's important, right, but when
you live in the right, that's important. When you live
in you know, an experience. And and also dont you
point out in your book of I remember correctly what
did you call it? Great divorces? Like people have been
(40:27):
married for many years, forty years and they get divorced
during their It does happen, because yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
I was fortunate in my case we used the I
know COVID was a very disruptive time for many people,
but for my wife and I it was a dry
run on retirement because we were house bound together for
a year or two. Uh, and we discovered that we
were still friends. And that was good because then when
(41:02):
I retired, we didn't have to go through that again,
we knew going to work out.
Speaker 1 (41:11):
Yeah, yeah, that had a pre uh well I call
a dry run, you know when you go somewhere that
was yeah, I could say where, Yeah, Paul, it's gonna happen,
because you know, if the wife is still working and
the husband is at home, and you know, she might
(41:31):
say why don't you vacuum or why don't you do
a laundry and the guy goes, I don't know how
to do it, or you know, that's that's their sexist
that's a woman's work. Or you know, the husband might
be critical of the wife. What are you doing that for?
You know, things that you don't you didn't notice about
each other because you were so busy, you're now noticing.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
And and the other thing that happens is these the
people who retire after being in a corporate environment and
they are looking for someone to type their correspondence for them,
and they've turned to their wife. And I'm not your secretary.
He doesn't have a secretary, he doesn't have someone to
make the zerox copies anymore. He you know, it's a
(42:19):
it's a strange feeling, but you don't you don't make
your spouse your your aid and assistant smoothly. It doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yes, yes, uh, I really enjoy talking to you darn
about your book. What would you like? And I know
there's many things that the reader that can take away.
What would you like the readers to take away? What
are some of the things that are important that you
would like the readers to take away from your book?
Speaker 2 (42:54):
I think the most important thing is to realize that
we've been gifted with some extra years. The longevity that
we have has really made the old form of retirement obsolete,
and retirement was the beginning of the end in the
old formulation. In my estimation, the afterwork is not the
(43:18):
beginning of the end. It can be the beginning of
something new and very exciting. And I think that would
be the main thing I would like to leave. We
can find new reasons to be alive, new purpose, things
that really are for our own enjoyment, and we don't
(43:39):
have to feel guilty about them, and we have enough
time that we can really pursue them in earnest And
that's the message.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
I love that. That is so awesome and that's true. See,
you have time, as they say, to smell the roads,
you know, see the beauty. Hear the birds. I just
into someone should did a book about and it was
all through the eyes of animals, birds, And I learned
(44:10):
to appreciate my bird sounds when I go outside now
and you know I it is and the gratitude it's
just really helps a lot. And let me tell you, folks,
I was not always a grateful person. I wasn't a
very pessimistic person. Believe me, I really was. I saw
(44:31):
the glasses half empty all the time. It took my
journey to really appreciate. That's journey to really appreciate life
and how fragile and how precious it is. And then
you know you're right. When I was in the nerse,
when I worked in nursing home as a teenager, I thought, Wow,
(44:55):
these people are sixty five and older. Some might have
been a little younger. They're old, man, I'm going to
be decribed it at sixty five. And I think us
baby boomers, we're changing aging. We're changing how people view aging.
We are living longer, thankfully to medicine, and we have
(45:16):
productive lives. And I want to tell young people, because
young people hear this show, learn from your elders that
we can be mentors, think about being a mentor, even
we could mentor young people. We are history books, Our
elders are history books. We can learn from them, and
(45:40):
there's so much to learn from people, their history, their experience,
and share their stories. I'm so glad they've contacted me,
Don about coming on the show and discussing your book.
Excuse me, where can people purchase your book?
Speaker 2 (46:06):
The book is available on Amazon and if you just
look for the title the Afterwork Finding Fulfilling Alternatives to Retirement,
it will pop up. You can also read about it
on my web my web page which is Don Auction
d O N A K C h I M dot com.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
I've been just going to ask you how can people
get in touch with you? And you just there Don Auction, Folks,
go on the website, go on Done's website. I highly
recommend it and read the Oracles his The Endgame and
a while back, I'll get a little history. Well, three
(46:53):
years ago I met Don Don had me on his show.
You said, have a podcast called The Endgames, and I
was on it, and I thank you for uh that opportunity. Done.
I really appreciate it and I'm glad I was able
to have you on on my show, and I thank
you for contacting me and for writing this book. It's
(47:15):
a very important book, I really and it's a fair thread.
It's it's short, to the point book. I just want
to say how many pages it is. It's and you
have resource notes in the back too, which are good.
It is eighty seven pages. Folks can read that so
(47:36):
watching TV read that, I take an hour or two.
Excuse me, I sat down. I actually read it this
morning and I was really inspired. And I just think
you did a great job. So best wishes on your book.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Thank you, Bet great talking to you too.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Oh you are welcome and my pleasure, folks. All the
information about don auction will be in the blind the
Genie White to the station manager writes and Genie produces
the show. You know what, holiday times coming around before
you know it. This will make a great gift that
really would they have to work finding fulfilling allternatives to retirement.
(48:27):
You know what. This is a book I think even
young people should read. I think is a great gift
to give to your parent, grandparent, uncle, un However, this
is a very important book because even people in their
forties might be thinking, what am I gods do when
I retire. That might seem a long time away. But
(48:48):
life goes by pretty fast, doesn't it done, It goes
but very quickly. It goes by very quickly. And I
can't believe I'll be retired six years in March. Doesn't
seem like it underwhere when I don't even know where
the days go to. It goes by very quickly at
the time. And I'm just grateful. I really am grateful
(49:12):
that I get to talk to people like Don and
read wonderful books. And thank you for sending me the book, Don.
I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Oh my pleasure. And I am grateful that you have
invited me on your show and given me a chance
to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Oh absolutely, you or more than welcome to come back
and talk about something else if you want, you just
let me know. And I want to thank everyone for
listening and subscribing. If you don't even really subscribe to
Chatting with Betsy, it is for free. I'm on Spotify, Spreaker,
(49:51):
i Heeart, Amazon Music. Please share this show. I want
to reach as many people as possible. I want people
to know they're not alone, there's resources, there's enjoy living.
I will you all, everyone to have a better quality
of life, a better outlook on life, one that I
(50:11):
wish I would have had in my youth and I
have it now, but it took me to my sixties
to have it, folks. So if you could flip your
attitude in your youth, do it. That's what I suggest.
And I want to thank Liland Coldwell, who's CEO a
passional talk radio. It makes this all possible. And as
(50:35):
I'm always saying, you could follow me on Facebook, that's
ce Worzel w r Zel could take a look at
my life. You could see pictures of Matt, my son,
my dementia awareness that I do usually daily. And I'm
just here for you all, and I want to thank
(50:55):
you all for listening and subscribing. Means a lot to me.
And as I always say at the end of my show,
in a world that you could be anything, please be
kind and shine your life bright because we need it
now more than ever before. This is Betsy Wortheal. You're
a host of Chatting with Betsy A. Pasha. Old Talk
(51:17):
Radio Network a subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC. Bye
bye now
Popular Podcasts
Spooky Podcasts from iHeartRadio
Whether you’re a scaredy-cat or a brave bat, this collection of episodes from iHeartPodcasts will put you in the Halloween spirit. Binge stories, frights, and more that may keep you up at night!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.