May 8, 2025 • 56 mins
Lisa and Bremond’s friendship began in seventh grade, where their shared love for libraries, reading, and researching laid the foundation for what would become Quite Literally Books. Their passion for literature and preserving women’s voices shines through this heartwarming and insightful conversation.
They explain how Quite Literally Books was born from their desire to revive stories that explore themes still relevant today—racism, parenting, working outside the home, and societal limitations. These books, once forgotten, now offer readers a chance to reflect on both the past and present.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everyone, this is Betsy Werzel. You're a host of
Chatting with Betsy on Passion Rule Talk Radio Network, a
subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC our a manstrance to
educate and light in and entertain. The views of the
guests may not represent those of the hosts of the station. Folks,
(00:22):
I have two extra special guests with me today, and
I'm so excited to have two guests on my show today.
I'm going to tell you a little about each guest
before I bring them on. The first guest, I'll introduced
Lisa and O Cooper. She attended Amherst College, where she
(00:44):
majored in English and Asian Studies, and the University of
Texas School of Law AD Austin. She has been a
practicing attorney, specializing in immigration law in the San Francisco
Bay Area since two thousand and eight. Lisa also had
a brief as a communications director reimagining the design, purpose
(01:05):
and content of print magazines for an independent school and
right now she is in New York City and she
I love us. A lifelong reader and book lover, she
has as many books as her bookshelves will allow, well
maybe a few more, and has always dreamed of having
(01:28):
her own bookstore. My next guest is Bremond Barry McDougall,
who is a graduate of University of Texas at Austin
with the BA in Spanish. While raising her three children
between Austin and New York City, she amassed a collection
of many thousands of books that make up what she
calls a reader's library. As the post for collector's library
(01:53):
rather than first editions. It contains dog ear favorites, collections
from both of her grandmother's complete with personal notes, and
books she has yet to read. She and her husband
helped to establish Eleanor Hole at Saint Andrew's School in Austin,
a kindergarten building named after her late mother was a
(02:13):
champion a joyful learning. A board member of the Citizens
Committee for Children of New York, a nonprofit and aims
to advance well being, equity, and justice for all of
New York's children. She lives in New York City and
they are both owners of quite literally Books, a small
(02:34):
heritage press reprinting forgotten books by American woman authors to
share with new generations of literary lovers. I had to
tell you, folks before I bring on the guests. These
books are absolutely stunning. They are a beautiful book to
give to anyone as a lovely gift. The cover, the
(03:01):
covers are beautiful. There's a little bit about the author,
and the inside jacket and a little bit of history
and the print of your middle aged like me folks.
The print is absolutely wonderful. And I want to welcome
my two lovely guests, Lisa Cooper and Bremond Barry McDougall.
(03:24):
Welcome to chatting with Betsy. Ladies.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Thank you for having that. Thank you. Yes, we're glad
to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
You are welcome. I love a story that you both have.
You are lifelong friends since the age of twelve. Can
you tell the audience how you met.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
We met on the first day of seventh grade at
Saint Andrew's Middle School in Austin, Texas. I had been
a great and Lisa was a new student. We have
a very small school. We had thirty kids in our class,
and I think we were friends almost immediately. We sort
of shared a sense of humor and we shared, uh,
(04:08):
we have the same case in music, and we love
to read and and we love to study, and we
love to learn, and yeah, we just we sort of
hit it off right off the bat, and we have
stayed friends all this time. Another person who I met
on the first day of seventh grade is now my husband.
(04:29):
I couldn't people time. No, that's true. We married. We
didn't start dating in the seventh study, but that is
but I didn't meet as so, yeah, we've been friends
ever since.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well that is great to you. This is quite a
story because you you met, you both have I think
you met in the in the library. You have a
love of books that you have shared all these years.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Reading has definitely been a foundational part and continues to
be a really important part in our friendship. That's definitely
one of the many ways we like to relate to
one another. And we didn't we didn't meet in the library,
but we also we found out, you know, later that
we had sort of similar experiences as children, and we're
(05:23):
probably at the Austin Public Library at the same time
at some point, because we both have memories as I
don't know, five or six year olds going to the
Austin Public Library, going to the children's section which is downstairs,
which I can remember. I can remember walking down those
stairs and getting my first library card when I was
(05:44):
able to write my own name. My grandmother took me.
I had one grandmother that took me to the library
to get my library card. My other grandmother was a
library and at the Austin Public Library, and Lisa spent
countless saturdays there after she was able to write her
name on her library right. My parents, the public library
was the best babysitter they ever had.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I enjoyed going to the library myself. We used to go.
I used to go to the public library in my town,
and also the school had a library. And this might
sound coucout some people, but I still love the smell
of the books.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
We have as part of our little intro manifesto to
why see what we do? A lot of it has
to do with how pleasurable it is to have a
really good book in your hand. You mentioned the cover
art and everything, the size of the print, But the
other thing that you may have experienced is our book
(06:52):
smelk right, Yeah, they really do. They were printed on
amazing paper called monk and paper, and it's the feel
of the paper in your hand and the smell of
the paper very good. The smell of the library, the
smell of a bookstore, Both of those are the kind
of smells that I think, just you know instantly where
(07:13):
you are. If somebody blindfolded me into the library, I
think I would know. I think I would know where
I was because there's a there's a book, a book around.
Someone needs to bottle the spen of a book. That's good.
I'm weird as a person, hand exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Uh. Well, I'm sixty seven, Lisa and brahmind. And I
could remember the smell like that musty smell. Uh the
school library books. I mean they would just smell and
I I would save up my money. Uh, and I
would go to my local drug store five and dime
(07:57):
they would call it back then. And I loved reading
about the Boxy Twins. So I'm remember I have you
ever heard of those series?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But I just was much older than you have a
collection of the Boxy Twins that you read. Oh wow,
they've been around for you know, twenty years older than
you are, maybe twenty five. But but yeah, they've been
around the Boxy Twins. That's been there for a long time.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yes, yes, I probably have. Yeah. I really loved those
books and we would have a book sare you know?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I was?
Speaker 1 (08:34):
There was four kids in my family, so I was
only allowed to get you know, maybe two or three
books at a at a time. Uh, So like for
you to both share. How did you come about deciding
to have your own publishing company?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well before I think, I'm I'm not sure that we
said the name of our publishing company yet. We've bet
our our first names. But it's quite literally books.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And by worry. Thank you forgot that. Thank you very much.
This is what happens when I take some medicine the
day of a show. Thank you. I thought I said that,
(09:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I think we started. You know, we've always loved books
and talked about books and talked about what we're reading
and what we're not reading. And I think during the pandemic.
We were at an author talk just last night and
the woman sort of had the same sort of story.
She said, you know, I somebody asked her when she
(09:47):
decided to do that her book, and she said, well,
you know, the pandemic happened, and we I was, you know,
at home, and I had you know, everything was sort
of different. So I divided to do this, and that's
kind of that's kind of where we were. The pandemic
and the lockdown started, and the lockdown was lockdown. It
was okay, and I like to put that out of
(10:12):
your mind, but yeah, it was a real But that way,
we started sort of talking on the phone more often,
because in the years before that we talked to each
other occasionally, but you know, we were busy with busy
with Disney lives, little kids and all that, and so
we were talking more and and we both turned fifty,
(10:36):
and we were talking about, you know, what, what was
something we could do, and what was something we could
do together? And then what was something we could do
together with books? And for whatever reason, starting a publishing
company seemed like a reason answered seems crazy, but that's
(10:56):
where we went. But I think we were really intrigued
by the idea of First of all, we both really
love research, you know, like diving deep into you know,
these rabbit trails of like wh who used to be
popular in nineteen thirty two and is no longer ever
heard of? Like it feels like you're on a treasure hunt.
(11:18):
And I think we both enjoy that piece of it.
We've always been big frequenters of used bookstores and love to,
you know, come up with a copy of something or
another that sounds really intriguing that we've never heard of
before and was published you know, fifty or more years ago.
So that's that's just something that we thought would be
(11:40):
fun to do, and this notion of working on a
project together. At the time, we weren't living in the
same place, so we were, you know, in totally different places.
It seems thor silly to think of doing a bookstore together.
So that's how publishing sort of came came into our Yeah,
I think we thought it would be fun. That was like,
(12:03):
that was the original thing was well, that sounds like fun,
quiet and also meaningful. I mean again, that turning fifty
thing was real. You know, we're sort of like reflecting
on what we've done so far and what we'd like
to do next, and just being a little thoughtful about
like how do we want to spend our time and
(12:23):
who do we want to spend it. We were like
the books, books and people who want to other people
who want to read books and talk about books. Yep,
that's our community.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Wow, that is really cool. Now, how did you both
come up with the name? Quite literally? Books?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
That was we spent a couple of I think it
was a couple of weeks throwing ideas around and they
were getting stranger and stranger and more and more and
more from our original original like thinking. And it was
a flash of inspiration late late one night and the minute,
the minute we thought of it, it was like we
(13:05):
can go to sleep now, yeah, and we never looked back.
It was funny. It was so tortuous getting there, but
it really was just a flash.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
That that is really that's that is so cool. I mean,
to be friends for that long and to go into
business together, I think that is quite an accomplishment. I
really do, so kudos to you.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Thank you. It's it's also just a real blessing to
be able to do something like this. There's no doubt.
You know, we've all had jobs that we've had to
do because we have to do them, and this is
like so much a labor of love. You know, we're
learning something new every single day because neither Braman nor
(13:57):
I have any background in publishing, so everything has been
new to us and we're very fortunate that we get
to do this together. And we've hired some really amazing
people for our team that you know, share their expertise
and thinking with us that as straight occasionally occasionally suddenly right,
(14:18):
why can't we do this, but also have been really
open to the why can't we do it this way?
You know, some some decisions we make are not what
a traditional publisher would do, and and we have a
massive team that is really flexible with that, and that's
been that's been great.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
And do you both like to read similar books or
your tastes completely different?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I would say if there were a ven diagram of
our reading tase, there is a very sizable overlap. But
I would also say our tastes are different. And I
think the reason why this works is because I have
always respected Ramon's opinion pretty much on everything actually, but
(15:07):
definitely in books. And so when she tells me something
is compelling or she just loves it, then I know
that I need to read it. I may not have
the exact same feeling about it, but it's always worth
my time to do it. And then we always have
the best conversations afterwards, which is you know, another reason
(15:28):
to engage in in books is like what it opens
the door to afterwards, the conversations you can have with people.
It's incredible. At least the really like books that I
know will be interesting like that I know will be
probably different than different than what I will normally be reading.
(15:51):
And so that's it fighting you know, it's fun to
we have to see yeah, right, because we know what
we like, right right, but we push each other and
as readers. And also again, like the conversations that come
out of the things that we read aren't like it's
organic because we've read a book, but otherwise we probably
(16:12):
wouldn't be talking about those things, you know, like even
really random things.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, I had a love for reading, like I had
mentioned earlier, ever since I was a child. If I
were sick home from school, I'd bring up a whole
bunch of books up to read as I stayed in bed.
And just reading a book takes you anywhere in the world.
(16:40):
It opens your mind to being a place that I
never went to, but I'm there when I read a book.
And yet you could have wonderful conversations with people about books.
And I've even said on this show to other guests
that you never know whose life you can change by
(17:01):
giving them a book as a gift. Depending what that
book is, that could change their whole life direction.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Absolutely, you never know, and it doesn't never been but
to the time you've never been like, yeah, books are
just so I don't know, expansive, like their expansive in
terms of thinking. Yeah, right always like including like, I
think books are really central to building empathy for people
(17:32):
who are not like you because you can almost quite
literally step into their shoes when you when you engage,
you know, in a book. And I definitely identify with
you taking books up to be the revalue were sick.
And I also anytime we were doing some big family
project and I'm also on a four, like you know,
(17:53):
breaking the leaves or I don't know, something something big.
At some point I would hear people going, where's Ramon,
where's anybody arm On? They call me? But and I
would have knuck off to some little nook somewhere and
be reading a book. And that was you know, I
(18:13):
would do whatever we were doing for a little while
and and I and I would just sort of say
and go rout my book because that's really what you
doing now. I remember at night, like you know, after
I was put to bed, getting up, sneaking over to
the door which was always open a crack, and there'd
be this like light shining you know, from the hall
(18:36):
into the bedroom and I would crouch by the door
with my book and that little flipper of life and
I could it was great. I could hear nowther she
were these flippers that made a click clack sound in
the hall, so I could hear she was approaching, and
I would know I needed to like withdraw and yeah,
exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Oh that's funny. I did the same thing. I just
said I would do that, and I would. I had
an overhead light and I would put that on and
then if I heard my parents coming, I would hurry
up shut it off, or I would take a flashlight
and hide underneath the covers with my book until I
(19:20):
heard that come.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Trying to wait to get your reading it. Yeah, that
was so fun. I mean that feeling of like just
wanting to be inside a story like that. I love
when you have that moment with the book. I have
to say, as an adult, like I feel it less
and less you know so much else. Yeah, taking your
(19:44):
attention right, that's it's just so hard. But falling into
a book like that is like the best feeling. I
love it.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
It's like true, yes, yes it is. I've been I
mean I always was a reader, and now with doing
the show, I try to read a book that the
author has written, and that's not always possible sometimes, but
I have learned such appreciation for the writers that like
(20:13):
I never had before, the research that goes into a book,
the time that goes into it, and I really, you know,
would take that for granted or never thought about it
until I did this show of what people go through
to write a book.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
There was one author that we were looking at and
we ended up not publishing her book. But I feel
badly as I tell the story about what she went
through to write that we're not republishing her. But there's
this fun author who she was. She followed her husband
or actually I guess he was actually her boyfriend to
(20:53):
a gold panning camp outside of San Francisco, and so
she was spending her days panning for She had one
child with her, and at night she would borrow the
typewriter from the postmistress in the nearest little town and
you know, by candle light be writing. And when you
(21:14):
think about what that must have been like, you know,
to be out in the sun panning for gold all
day every day, also taking care of a little boy,
and I don't know what you have to do to
keep a tent clean. But I'm sure that was being
done just to like put food on your little makeshift
table and you brow exactly and then at night to
(21:37):
go haul your cookies in the town, get a typewriter,
bang it out for a few hours. And I mean
that kind of commitment. I don't think I could do that.
But yes, that's sort of an extreme story. But it's
by no means the only story like that. And we
think about that with our three authors that we have
for our first three books.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Sure, yes, all.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Forty Canfield Fisher, Amelia Gardner White, All of these women
were writing seventy eighty ninety hundred years ago, but they
also had, you know, other lives. They had families, and
they had husbands and children and jobs and jobs, and
they found not only found the time to write and
(22:22):
in some cases write very prolifically, but they also got
them published, which you know, women were not as published
as much as men, certainly, and the topics that they
were writing about were sometimes not things that were seen
as books that men would want to read. And therefore
(22:45):
maybe you know, not as valuable or not as worthy
of publication as you know, I don't know a male
author's work, and it's just it's so impressive to think
of them as doing what they did when they did it,
you know, in the nineteen twenties, when you know raven
(23:07):
children was you know, homemaking was your job, that was
your you know, that was what women did. But to
also carve out time to do something that was really
important to you in creating a book, it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Can you tell us about the three books on your
Normural list and about each book.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Where you want to? Do you want to start? Do
you want I can start so that our first book
is called The Homemaker by Dorothy Cancel Fisher, And we
were just talking about the expectations for women, you know,
being homemakers, stay at home moms. And the main character
in this book, her name is Eva. We find her
(23:55):
at the beginning of the book as a very dedicated,
uh affectionist of homemaking, so much so that she's super
stressed out about it, and she makes her family super
stressed out by her impossible to meet standards, and her
three children are miserable. And her husband, who is a
(24:20):
kind of the poet dreamer type who goes off to
work every day and is not very effective in his job.
Everyone's miserable doing what they're doing. And unfortunately, but also
kind of fortunately, Lester has an accident and he is
no longer able to work outside of the home. So
even Lester has to switch jobs. And Eva goes out
(24:40):
into the workplace and finds that she has a knack
for being a saleswoman, and Lester stays home with the
kids and finds out that he has a knack for
child rearing. And it's this book that was written in
nineteen twenty four, so over one hundred years ago, but
the themes of the book are things that we still
(25:01):
talk about today. You know. This this the expectations that
are put on women to be, you know, sort of
perfect in everything that they do. The fact that even today,
you know, the stay at home dad scenario is still
the alternative scenario, not not the given one, not the
(25:24):
default one by a long shot. And you know what
it means to to do things outside of the box
that society puts you in. It's a it's a really
fascinating look at that and feels completely relevant. The writing
and and you know, the themes and the characters definitely
(25:47):
hold up, and it's a really great read and the author,
Dorothy Cansel Fisher, is a is an interesting character herself.
She wrote a number of books, but she is also
credited with bringing the monitoring method of education to the
United States, which is some which is touched upon in
(26:09):
The Homemaker. You see some of the the experiential learning
in the hands on learning that are sort of tall
marks of Montessori you see in her book as well
in The Homemaker. And Dorothy Canfields this year sort of
lived the Homemaker a little bit. She was the breadlinner
in her family and her husband raised the children at
(26:32):
least for at least for part of the time. And
she's also a little you know, she's complicated, as we
all are, but she is complicated in that she was
very sort of ahead of her time in terms of
education and in terms of being a champion for civil
rights and things like that. But she was also mired
(26:55):
in her time as part of the eugenics movement in
the state of Vermont that was trying to urge only
the right kinds of people to settle in Vermont and
only the right kind of people to reproduce in Vermont,
which you know resulted in there. I'm not sure, it
resulted in but proposed serialization of certain people and certain populations,
(27:17):
so she had, you know, she was a It had
two sides, as you know a lot of us do.
So yeah, it's but we think it's a really it's
a really great book, and it would be a really
great book club book if anybody's got a book club
out there. There's even a guide at the end to
help people if they want to, if they would like
to use The Homemaker as a book club book. Our
(27:41):
second book is Yes. Our second book is Plumb Buddy
by Jesse Redmonds Clastt, and this again a very interesting
book with a very interesting author. The book itself is
about this yeah, black woman named Angela who is living
(28:03):
in Philadelphia with her parents. She's very gifted in the art,
very ambitious, beautiful, and when her parents pass away, she
decides to move to New York City and lives life
as a white woman because she is light skinned. If
(28:24):
she is not in the company of her sister, who
is dark skinned, people assume that she's white. So she
makes this difficult decision to leave her her community and
her sister and move to New York. And it's all about,
you know, the choices that she makes, the things that
she gains, and everything that she gives up because what
(28:45):
she finds out is yes, life as a white person
affords more opportunities, but as a white woman, she still
has a lot of limitations put on her. Again, it's
a story about trying to live outside of the boxes
that society puts you in. And it's a fascinating book
(29:07):
that again very relative relevant conversation today around identity and
passing what it means to let someone else tell you
what your identity is versus your being able to decide
for yourself, assume and assume something and then it turns
(29:28):
into your responsibility to correct the brand. It's a really interesting,
interesting take on that. Written in nineteen twenty nine, so
again almost one hundred years old, but feels very fresh today.
And the author, Jesse Redmonds Faucet, is a really interesting
person here has definitely not gotten her due. She was
(29:54):
credited for launching the careers of people like Links and
Hughes during the Harlem In a month. She worked as
a literary editor for The Crisis Magazine, which was the
NAACP's magazine, and she wrote four novels herself. But for
a number of reasons those have gone. You know, they're
(30:16):
not forgotten totally, but they're definitely under the radar, not
mainstreams at all. Yeah, and so we wanted to shine
a light on Plumbbun because we actually like all of
her books, but this one especially spoke to us. And
you know, we've been reading contemporary novelists like Britt Bennett.
She wrote The Vanishing Half a couple of years ago,
(30:38):
and the themes are just so strikingly similar. Definitely a
good pairing, I think if you want to do a
little study on identity and passing The Vanishing Half by
Britt Bennett, plumb Bun, and then of course Melows was Passing,
which was written in the same year as plumb One,
but has for a number of reasons.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Maybe.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yeah, I don't know what they are. Having read both
of them, I'm really not sure. Well, I think that
you had a really good point, which was that you know,
it's all about like, what perspective are we learning the
story from? And one one Angela is the protagonist, and
so we are following her around and she's she's the
one that's making all these decisions to deny her sister,
(31:25):
to leave her community, and she has a super pragmatic
outlook on life, but I wouldn't say it makes her
highly likable. Whereas in Passing you're seeing the story is
unfolding with someone looking upon the person who is passing
and passing judgment on it, right, And so it's told
(31:45):
from a different perspective, and it might be one that's
more palatable because of that. And I think that was
a really good point you had.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
You know, it just shows that even though these books
are a hundred or close to one hundred years old,
things haven't changed.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
I mean it's just people will put people in boxes
and will force their story on others of what you
can and cannot do, what's expected of you, and women,
especially in the nineteen twenties, were expected to stay at
home and child wearing. Always in the responsibilities of the
(32:27):
home always was on the woman, the women. That's just
how what and it still is. I mean maybe the
younger generation, I don't know, is more you know, equal
and the responsibilities of the home, but it was usually
(32:47):
the female. I don't like. I look back my grandmother,
my mother's mother, she ran a laundry store and put
on a spread every whead had people over. I don't
know how she did it.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, I remember. I mean, my husband's definitely more involved
in our kids' lives growing up. But I remember if
my dad picks me up from school, that was a
big deal. I mean, I think I remember happening like
twice because it just didn't he was not that was
my mom's job, and he was at his job, and
(33:26):
when he appeared sort of unexpectedly during the day, it
was like, oh, wow, you know, something's going on, something
is special. And I don't know that kids have that
perspective anymore. I think those studies have shown that even
when when the two parents are both yeah, working, that
(33:48):
the bulk of the mom and the child rearing still
falls mostly on those women. And whether it's it's actually
you know, in terms of like time, it certainly oftentimes
like having to be sort of responsible for the decisions
like or if somebody is thick or whatever, who ends
(34:09):
up and his train disappointment, Right, it's track of you know, yeah, managing,
and that I think is mo Yeah, not only, but
definitely I think all studies point in the direction. Yeah,
it's respect for holding that and and the putting you know,
putting people in in boxes and assuming things about them
(34:32):
and then being angry when they turn out to be wrong.
That's that's something that we saw a lot in Plumbbun,
which is I don't know, I find that very interesting,
the idea that you have assumed something about someone and
then when you turned out to be wrong, that that
it was their fault for you know, misleading you. I
(34:54):
think that still happens too. That's still a that's still
a thing. Yeah. I think a lot of these books,
you know, are about we were talking earlier about things
that concern women, you know, meaning the home relationships, the
interior lives of women is like what all three of
(35:16):
our books are about, and and that that hasn't really
changed in the last hundred years. Like we maybe it's
because it's just human, you know, and these are the
things that we care about. But that's definitely why they've
held up over time. And our third book, which doesn't
have any like major game, is still very compelling. We
(35:41):
like to say that it's it's called the Pink House
by nearly a gardener White, and it's this one is
more of a like Braman likes to say, it's the
Cozy up, you know, on a couch with a cup
of tea kind of read. It's like a gothic sort
of feel romance black, a big house with lots of secrets,
(36:03):
family dysfunction, and it's all pulled from the viewpoint of
At the beginning of the story, she's a young girl, Nora,
who has been recently orphaned, and she has to go
live with an aunt and nuncle that she doesn't really
know very well and their children, and all she really
wants is to fit in and you know, feel welcome
(36:25):
in some way, and that is not the house for it,
and she has to learn how to navigate that. And
the Watcher she's a watcher and a big thinker, and
so we just spend a lot of time in her
mind and it's it's a very quiet book, but it's
super compelling. The characters are interesting and you get to
(36:45):
sort of go for It takes place over how many
years for I don't remember. We watched her girl up exactly, Yeah,
and it's it's a slow burn and it's very very good.
And all three of our books have good resolution. Fad
(37:07):
flying and yeah, yeah, no one, no one is left hanging, yeah,
which I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
They all down fantastic.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Nelia Gardner White, who wrote The
Pink House, wrote many not and she is out of
print and mostly unknown, although very well regarded. O day.
I mean, it's just so crazy well reviewed. Yeah, mentioned
(37:38):
in the same uh breath as uh who Calvin Trillin
maybe or the LANs or I can't who was it?
And I can't remember. It's a bad sea memories are not.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
That's okay, and.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Arthur Miller like they yeah, mentioned in the same sentence
with them in a positive way. And yet she's, you know,
just gone. And I believe we found her just poking
around in the library. We came to a shelf that
had a bunch of books by the same woman, and
we thought, well, what is this, And that's how we
(38:19):
got to her. I think we will be publishing more
of her books. She has so many, end of a
lot and they're good to read. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
How did you decide when you were starting quite literally
books of what authors are you wanted to introduce? And
well books because of I mean, there's just so much
to choose from.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I to choose from, but it's hard to find. We've
read probably hundreds of books in the last three years. Yeah,
and it sort of comes down to what you think
is a really good book. And two of our books
join the public domain, which is great because that means
(39:10):
that we can just find them without permission. The Pink
House is still under copyright, so we had to get
permission for that one, and sometimes it's hard to get permission.
There are some books that we would love to publish,
but we're at dead ends in terms of getting permission
to publish them because they're still under copyright. And sometimes
we can't even find the person from whom we need
(39:34):
to get the permissions. Like the way you know it
truly is like being a private investigator. You have to
use all means in front of you, which in our
case es mostly the internet, you know, reading obituaries and
reaching out to publishers that may own the rights. There
is a database at the University of Texas that has
(39:57):
a lot of these uh what do you call them?
Literary state information for writers, but it's not by any
means complete, and so it is just a whole lot
of sleuthing and getting lucky. And even if you get lucky,
you may still repent it if someone you know doesn't
(40:18):
really want want their grandmother's book published, or you know
that it does happen. And we do have a shelf
here of books right in front of us, of things
that we hope we'll be able to publish someday in
the future, but are shelved for the time being.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
I was going to ask you, I'm glad you brought
that up because I had it down here to ask
you about, because I was wondering about copyright issues. How
do you go about that? You see a book that
you like, you you know, you read the book, but
to get the copyright issues from the other because they're
they're not alive.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, you have to. You have to try to figure
it out. And some times when who we're looking for
stuff by right now in the air's name and like
Stephen Johnson and Stephen there, you know up team Stephen
Johnson in ancestry dot com, it could be, you know,
any one of them. I wonder if it was easier,
like when you actually did have phone books and you
(41:17):
could go to the library and and look up and
call all the Stephen Johnson's. I don't know, I can't
really do that anymore, but that, you know, might have
been a in a way although there's probably two thousand
Stevens a lot of true.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, right, especially common name.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, exactly, So we're always hopeful for a name that
is unusual. Yes, you know up Ramm and Google kind
of name. Pa, you're not at least the Cooper kind
of name.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
And your your books are already out, your first three
books that you mentioned, Uh, we're out on April seventh.
When do you plan on putting out your other books?
Do you have like a set schedule how many books
a year you'll be putting out books?
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yes, so our production schedule is going to be we're
putting up three books in the spring, three books in
the fall. So our next grouping will be coming out
at the beginning of November. And so we're fart at
work already starting to get those bike sne and freu
bread and all of that stuff because November will be here. Appreciation.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, this year is why I am by Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
And I agree with what you said at the beginning
that the these are great books and Mother's Day is coming,
so just a little plug if you go to your
mom might really like these books. I mean, we do
have a mother safety right, we have a book bundle,
so you can get all three of our books. Plus
we will also give you one of our really amazing
(43:02):
tote bags. It's just a little free gift for your
money or your or your mother person whoever. That mays.
If you have to make them carry it, you can,
they have the promise to carry it around. It does
say quite literally books and people that there's people ask
them about it. They're super cute. We got these tote
bags designed with like a lot of extra pockets inside
(43:23):
because we we need lots of pocket.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah yeah, oh wow, that sounds wrong.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Oh that sounds And.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
So your website and this is this is where people
can connect with you quite literally books dot com and
they order the books in there and they could contact you.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yes, that's a great place to write to us. We
have a you can click on our email there and
send us a note. We really would love if people
would tell us what they think of our books. And
also they can order our books from there. We will
films in them right from right from our office.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Ye have.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
We wrap each one by hand and they're super cute.
And if someone wants to order our books from say
their local independent bookstore, they can be ordered through our distributor.
Uh just ask your ask your local independent bookstore for
this particular book and they will be able to get it.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
I also like how you have on the inside the
book jacket that you kind of, you know, told the
reader you know, this is I'm going to paraphrase an
older books, so some of the wording is from back
then in case people might take, you know, offense to it. Uh.
(44:48):
Do you find that anything in your books are controversial
by today's standards.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
I mean, you know, maybe Plumb Bun and particular has
racial flurs in it that are objectable now, and you
know they're offensive now, and they were offensive when the
book was written. They were used by the author, who
is a black woman, and we have left them to
(45:20):
our book. They're her words and and we feel like
it's not for us to change them. They were used
in this particular context to show how white people, you know,
spoke of black people and to show you know, the
(45:40):
kind of world that they lived in, the type of
Pejordan that they were subject to, and we felt that
that was important to leave in there.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Ye. Huge, Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
We we don't believe in whitewashing history. And these books
are historical documents and we do make choices in terms
of if something has it's not a great book, obviously
we won't print it. If something is a good book
that has racial views that are just too offensive to
(46:20):
get passed and devalue the book or a spouse a
viewpoint maybe that the author has, as opposed to a
viewpoint that perhaps a particular character has, we will probably
choose not to print it. We read a number of
books that we were excited about and then all of
(46:42):
a sudden got you know, turned upside down by somethingor
either like casual racism. Yeah, it's really everywhere. It is everywhere.
It is in the water we drink, and so and
so we do make this around that we won't be
printing something that we feel continues to have a viewpoint
(47:08):
that is, you know, aboring.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
I think that it's important in a way for people
to see and to read that this is how it
was back then, and we shouldn't quitewash it. You know,
this is history, this is how people were unfortunately treated.
And yeah, I think it's important lesson when people pick
(47:35):
up a book like that to set you know, for
them to know because we're I know, back when I
was growing up, I wasn't taught everything about history that
went on. I didn't learn until later. And I'm sure
now the kids today are not taught about history the
(47:57):
way it really was. And now you have, you know,
the books being banned and people want to rewrite history
excuse they try not to get political.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
But well, and not only are these books, you know,
an opening to talk about history, but they're also an
opening to talk about today. You know, there are a
way to talk about how things have not changed and
how you know, the things that are that we're still
as a nation grappling with, ye know, and we trust
(48:33):
that our readers are capable of through dwelling in that
really uncomfortable space, and are capable of handling and holding
nuance and can have really respectful and important conversations with
one another about about the things that come out of
these books.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Excuse me, absolutely, what is your Oh? Go ahead, no?
Speaker 2 (49:00):
If I say important, but also sometimes levened with humor, coolice,
then I do always find the way to find something
not serious. When we talk about we talked well, you know,
humor is like a big part of I mean, you know, amazing, yeah,
I mean, and also like I feel like that's that's
(49:21):
a really big piece of being human is our ability
to do that right, not absolutely, but like everything has
sort of like the funny side to it. Yeah, you know, yeah, okay,
interrupted you that's okay.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
I wa'ts your hope for quite literally books? What would
you like the readers to know?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
One of my hopes is that we get to do
this for a really long time. One of my host
is that is that people love the books that we
pick and and we re engage with them and want
to buy them and want to have them in their library,
and that Lisa and I get to keep reading a
zillion books and as we think are good for a
(50:12):
very long time. Yeah. I think when we first started
as one of the things that was appealing with you know,
the relationship that Verman and I have around books is
so rich and fun to engage with one another. And
we were thinking, like, what if we just met more
people that like to do this, you know, just like
we do. And we know they're out there, but we've
(50:34):
never been big, you know, joiners of book clubs. I
don't know why that is, but this idea of like
kind of creating a space for people who are drawn
to this kind of thing come to us we thought
might be a really wonderful way to build a community
of readers that enjoy engaging the way we do.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
That. I agree, you know, I've just thought of this.
I have an idea for you for you both. Did
you ever think of starting your own book club with
your book? Have?
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Actually we have thought about it. Yeah, we're talking about
how we could do that just today. Yeah, wow DIGITALI.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yeah, I just thought about. Well, thank you both for
coming on. I enjoyed, uh talking to you both, and
I wish you both the best of luck. Folks. I
had to say this, Lisa Cooper remind mcdougle did a wonderful,
(51:42):
wonderful job with these books. I have three of them,
their first three, and I really want to uh read them.
They are absolutely beautiful, the cover, the paper, the print.
It is a wonderful gift to buy yourself and someone
(52:03):
else a gift any time of the year. I don't
know this will be out before Mother's Day, but any
time of the year is perfect to give someone a book.
Father's Day. There's graduations coming up right right.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Well, actually, I would like to say this. We talked
about this quite a bit together. You know, our I
think our readers are going to tend to be women.
But boy, we would really encourage men to pick up
a book that is written by a woman about a woman,
because if you think women are confusing, this is a
really great way to less you know, the interior life
(52:46):
of women is how you understand women. So we would
like to encourage all the men out there to pick
up one of our books.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
I love that. Yes, that that's a great idea of
absolutely uh, because how else are men going to really
know about women unless they pick up a book about
women and to know, you know what went on. But
thank you so much, folks. You heard Lisa. You're welcome.
(53:20):
Lisa Cooper and Ramond McDougall. They are owners of quite
literally books. I want to just put it out there, folks,
help them make this a sssess. Go on their website,
which will be in the blog, and order their beautiful books.
(53:41):
I'm telling you you will love them. I'm old fashioned.
I can't read from a computer. I can't read from
a from my phone due to my eye problems. But
even if I didn't have them, I like to hold
a book. There's nothing better to me than holding that
book and flipping the pages and I just can't say
(54:06):
it enough because I really think that you both did
a really a wonderful job. I'm not a book critic
by any means. I'm just little on me here in
New Jersey. But I know a beautiful book when I
see one. And Folks, you will not be disappointed. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
Like appreciate, We appreciate your support. Thank you for letting
us talk with you.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
Oh, you are welcome to my pleasure. Folks. All the
information about quite Literally Books will be in the blog
that Jennie White is the station manager, right, so please
read the blog. Please share the show with your friends
and tell them about quite Literally books dot com. And
I want to thank Leland Coldwell, who is CEO of
(54:58):
pastor will Talk Gradom Network that makes it's all possible.
If you don't have a ready subscribe to Chatting with Betsy,
please do so. It's for free on Spotify, Spreaker. iHeart
Amazon Music, and I want to give a shout out
to LESO Warren, who is president of Lesto Warren p R.
(55:18):
Who arranged this interview and many many of my guests
are from Lysto Warren p R. And if you're looking
for a top notch publicist. I highly recommend Leuso Warren
p R. You would not be disappointed as far as
I'm concerned, And yeah, I might be a little biased.
(55:41):
Lease Lussa Warren is top notch in her field. And
as I always say at the the end of my show,
do you want to contact me? I'm on Facebook Betsy
Worzel w r z e L and I have a
support group your caregiver hashtag kick Alzheimer's Ask Move And
(56:01):
as I end my show, I always say, the worlds
where you could be anything. Please be kind and shine.
You're life bright because we need it now more than
ever before. Thank you for listening. This is Betsy words All.
You're a host of Chatting with Betsy. I'm passionate. World
Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC.
(56:24):
Bye bye now
Hello, everyone, this is Betsy Werzel. You're a host of
Chatting with Betsy on Passion Rule Talk Radio Network, a
subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC our a manstrance to
educate and light in and entertain. The views of the
guests may not represent those of the hosts of the station. Folks,
(00:22):
I have two extra special guests with me today, and
I'm so excited to have two guests on my show today.
I'm going to tell you a little about each guest
before I bring them on. The first guest, I'll introduced
Lisa and O Cooper. She attended Amherst College, where she
(00:44):
majored in English and Asian Studies, and the University of
Texas School of Law AD Austin. She has been a
practicing attorney, specializing in immigration law in the San Francisco
Bay Area since two thousand and eight. Lisa also had
a brief as a communications director reimagining the design, purpose
(01:05):
and content of print magazines for an independent school and
right now she is in New York City and she
I love us. A lifelong reader and book lover, she
has as many books as her bookshelves will allow, well
maybe a few more, and has always dreamed of having
(01:28):
her own bookstore. My next guest is Bremond Barry McDougall,
who is a graduate of University of Texas at Austin
with the BA in Spanish. While raising her three children
between Austin and New York City, she amassed a collection
of many thousands of books that make up what she
calls a reader's library. As the post for collector's library
(01:53):
rather than first editions. It contains dog ear favorites, collections
from both of her grandmother's complete with personal notes, and
books she has yet to read. She and her husband
helped to establish Eleanor Hole at Saint Andrew's School in Austin,
a kindergarten building named after her late mother was a
(02:13):
champion a joyful learning. A board member of the Citizens
Committee for Children of New York, a nonprofit and aims
to advance well being, equity, and justice for all of
New York's children. She lives in New York City and
they are both owners of quite literally Books, a small
(02:34):
heritage press reprinting forgotten books by American woman authors to
share with new generations of literary lovers. I had to
tell you, folks before I bring on the guests. These
books are absolutely stunning. They are a beautiful book to
give to anyone as a lovely gift. The cover, the
(03:01):
covers are beautiful. There's a little bit about the author,
and the inside jacket and a little bit of history
and the print of your middle aged like me folks.
The print is absolutely wonderful. And I want to welcome
my two lovely guests, Lisa Cooper and Bremond Barry McDougall.
(03:24):
Welcome to chatting with Betsy. Ladies.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Thank you for having that. Thank you. Yes, we're glad
to be here with you.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
You are welcome. I love a story that you both have.
You are lifelong friends since the age of twelve. Can
you tell the audience how you met.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
We met on the first day of seventh grade at
Saint Andrew's Middle School in Austin, Texas. I had been
a great and Lisa was a new student. We have
a very small school. We had thirty kids in our class,
and I think we were friends almost immediately. We sort
of shared a sense of humor and we shared, uh,
(04:08):
we have the same case in music, and we love
to read and and we love to study, and we
love to learn, and yeah, we just we sort of
hit it off right off the bat, and we have
stayed friends all this time. Another person who I met
on the first day of seventh grade is now my husband.
(04:29):
I couldn't people time. No, that's true. We married. We
didn't start dating in the seventh study, but that is
but I didn't meet as so, yeah, we've been friends
ever since.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well that is great to you. This is quite a
story because you you met, you both have I think
you met in the in the library. You have a
love of books that you have shared all these years.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Reading has definitely been a foundational part and continues to
be a really important part in our friendship. That's definitely
one of the many ways we like to relate to
one another. And we didn't we didn't meet in the library,
but we also we found out, you know, later that
we had sort of similar experiences as children, and we're
(05:23):
probably at the Austin Public Library at the same time
at some point, because we both have memories as I
don't know, five or six year olds going to the
Austin Public Library, going to the children's section which is downstairs,
which I can remember. I can remember walking down those
stairs and getting my first library card when I was
(05:44):
able to write my own name. My grandmother took me.
I had one grandmother that took me to the library
to get my library card. My other grandmother was a
library and at the Austin Public Library, and Lisa spent
countless saturdays there after she was able to write her
name on her library right. My parents, the public library
was the best babysitter they ever had.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I enjoyed going to the library myself. We used to go.
I used to go to the public library in my town,
and also the school had a library. And this might
sound coucout some people, but I still love the smell
of the books.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
We have as part of our little intro manifesto to
why see what we do? A lot of it has
to do with how pleasurable it is to have a
really good book in your hand. You mentioned the cover
art and everything, the size of the print, But the
other thing that you may have experienced is our book
(06:52):
smelk right, Yeah, they really do. They were printed on
amazing paper called monk and paper, and it's the feel
of the paper in your hand and the smell of
the paper very good. The smell of the library, the
smell of a bookstore, Both of those are the kind
of smells that I think, just you know instantly where
(07:13):
you are. If somebody blindfolded me into the library, I
think I would know. I think I would know where
I was because there's a there's a book, a book around.
Someone needs to bottle the spen of a book. That's good.
I'm weird as a person, hand exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Uh. Well, I'm sixty seven, Lisa and brahmind. And I
could remember the smell like that musty smell. Uh the
school library books. I mean they would just smell and
I I would save up my money. Uh, and I
would go to my local drug store five and dime
(07:57):
they would call it back then. And I loved reading
about the Boxy Twins. So I'm remember I have you
ever heard of those series?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
But I just was much older than you have a
collection of the Boxy Twins that you read. Oh wow,
they've been around for you know, twenty years older than
you are, maybe twenty five. But but yeah, they've been
around the Boxy Twins. That's been there for a long time.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Yes, yes, I probably have. Yeah. I really loved those
books and we would have a book sare you know?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I was?
Speaker 1 (08:34):
There was four kids in my family, so I was
only allowed to get you know, maybe two or three
books at a at a time. Uh, So like for
you to both share. How did you come about deciding
to have your own publishing company?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well before I think, I'm I'm not sure that we
said the name of our publishing company yet. We've bet
our our first names. But it's quite literally books.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
And by worry. Thank you forgot that. Thank you very much.
This is what happens when I take some medicine the
day of a show. Thank you. I thought I said that,
(09:24):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I think we started. You know, we've always loved books
and talked about books and talked about what we're reading
and what we're not reading. And I think during the pandemic.
We were at an author talk just last night and
the woman sort of had the same sort of story.
She said, you know, I somebody asked her when she
(09:47):
decided to do that her book, and she said, well,
you know, the pandemic happened, and we I was, you know,
at home, and I had you know, everything was sort
of different. So I divided to do this, and that's
kind of that's kind of where we were. The pandemic
and the lockdown started, and the lockdown was lockdown. It
was okay, and I like to put that out of
(10:12):
your mind, but yeah, it was a real But that way,
we started sort of talking on the phone more often,
because in the years before that we talked to each
other occasionally, but you know, we were busy with busy
with Disney lives, little kids and all that, and so
we were talking more and and we both turned fifty,
(10:36):
and we were talking about, you know, what, what was
something we could do, and what was something we could
do together? And then what was something we could do
together with books? And for whatever reason, starting a publishing
company seemed like a reason answered seems crazy, but that's
(10:56):
where we went. But I think we were really intrigued
by the idea of First of all, we both really
love research, you know, like diving deep into you know,
these rabbit trails of like wh who used to be
popular in nineteen thirty two and is no longer ever
heard of? Like it feels like you're on a treasure hunt.
(11:18):
And I think we both enjoy that piece of it.
We've always been big frequenters of used bookstores and love to,
you know, come up with a copy of something or
another that sounds really intriguing that we've never heard of
before and was published you know, fifty or more years ago.
So that's that's just something that we thought would be
(11:40):
fun to do, and this notion of working on a
project together. At the time, we weren't living in the
same place, so we were, you know, in totally different places.
It seems thor silly to think of doing a bookstore together.
So that's how publishing sort of came came into our Yeah,
I think we thought it would be fun. That was like,
(12:03):
that was the original thing was well, that sounds like fun,
quiet and also meaningful. I mean again, that turning fifty
thing was real. You know, we're sort of like reflecting
on what we've done so far and what we'd like
to do next, and just being a little thoughtful about
like how do we want to spend our time and
(12:23):
who do we want to spend it. We were like
the books, books and people who want to other people
who want to read books and talk about books. Yep,
that's our community.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Wow, that is really cool. Now, how did you both
come up with the name? Quite literally? Books?
Speaker 2 (12:41):
That was we spent a couple of I think it
was a couple of weeks throwing ideas around and they
were getting stranger and stranger and more and more and
more from our original original like thinking. And it was
a flash of inspiration late late one night and the minute,
the minute we thought of it, it was like we
(13:05):
can go to sleep now, yeah, and we never looked back.
It was funny. It was so tortuous getting there, but
it really was just a flash.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
That that is really that's that is so cool. I mean,
to be friends for that long and to go into
business together, I think that is quite an accomplishment. I
really do, so kudos to you.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Thank you. It's it's also just a real blessing to
be able to do something like this. There's no doubt.
You know, we've all had jobs that we've had to
do because we have to do them, and this is
like so much a labor of love. You know, we're
learning something new every single day because neither Braman nor
(13:57):
I have any background in publishing, so everything has been
new to us and we're very fortunate that we get
to do this together. And we've hired some really amazing
people for our team that you know, share their expertise
and thinking with us that as straight occasionally occasionally suddenly right,
(14:18):
why can't we do this, but also have been really
open to the why can't we do it this way?
You know, some some decisions we make are not what
a traditional publisher would do, and and we have a
massive team that is really flexible with that, and that's
been that's been great.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
And do you both like to read similar books or
your tastes completely different?
Speaker 2 (14:45):
I would say if there were a ven diagram of
our reading tase, there is a very sizable overlap. But
I would also say our tastes are different. And I
think the reason why this works is because I have
always respected Ramon's opinion pretty much on everything actually, but
(15:07):
definitely in books. And so when she tells me something
is compelling or she just loves it, then I know
that I need to read it. I may not have
the exact same feeling about it, but it's always worth
my time to do it. And then we always have
the best conversations afterwards, which is you know, another reason
(15:28):
to engage in in books is like what it opens
the door to afterwards, the conversations you can have with people.
It's incredible. At least the really like books that I
know will be interesting like that I know will be
probably different than different than what I will normally be reading.
(15:51):
And so that's it fighting you know, it's fun to
we have to see yeah, right, because we know what
we like, right right, but we push each other and
as readers. And also again, like the conversations that come
out of the things that we read aren't like it's
organic because we've read a book, but otherwise we probably
(16:12):
wouldn't be talking about those things, you know, like even
really random things.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, I had a love for reading, like I had
mentioned earlier, ever since I was a child. If I
were sick home from school, I'd bring up a whole
bunch of books up to read as I stayed in bed.
And just reading a book takes you anywhere in the world.
(16:40):
It opens your mind to being a place that I
never went to, but I'm there when I read a book.
And yet you could have wonderful conversations with people about books.
And I've even said on this show to other guests
that you never know whose life you can change by
(17:01):
giving them a book as a gift. Depending what that
book is, that could change their whole life direction.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Absolutely, you never know, and it doesn't never been but
to the time you've never been like, yeah, books are
just so I don't know, expansive, like their expansive in
terms of thinking. Yeah, right always like including like, I
think books are really central to building empathy for people
(17:32):
who are not like you because you can almost quite
literally step into their shoes when you when you engage,
you know, in a book. And I definitely identify with
you taking books up to be the revalue were sick.
And I also anytime we were doing some big family
project and I'm also on a four, like you know,
(17:53):
breaking the leaves or I don't know, something something big.
At some point I would hear people going, where's Ramon,
where's anybody arm On? They call me? But and I
would have knuck off to some little nook somewhere and
be reading a book. And that was you know, I
(18:13):
would do whatever we were doing for a little while
and and I and I would just sort of say
and go rout my book because that's really what you
doing now. I remember at night, like you know, after
I was put to bed, getting up, sneaking over to
the door which was always open a crack, and there'd
be this like light shining you know, from the hall
(18:36):
into the bedroom and I would crouch by the door
with my book and that little flipper of life and
I could it was great. I could hear nowther she
were these flippers that made a click clack sound in
the hall, so I could hear she was approaching, and
I would know I needed to like withdraw and yeah,
exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Oh that's funny. I did the same thing. I just
said I would do that, and I would. I had
an overhead light and I would put that on and
then if I heard my parents coming, I would hurry
up shut it off, or I would take a flashlight
and hide underneath the covers with my book until I
(19:20):
heard that come.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Trying to wait to get your reading it. Yeah, that
was so fun. I mean that feeling of like just
wanting to be inside a story like that. I love
when you have that moment with the book. I have
to say, as an adult, like I feel it less
and less you know so much else. Yeah, taking your
(19:44):
attention right, that's it's just so hard. But falling into
a book like that is like the best feeling. I
love it.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
It's like true, yes, yes it is. I've been I
mean I always was a reader, and now with doing
the show, I try to read a book that the
author has written, and that's not always possible sometimes, but
I have learned such appreciation for the writers that like
(20:13):
I never had before, the research that goes into a book,
the time that goes into it, and I really, you know,
would take that for granted or never thought about it
until I did this show of what people go through
to write a book.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
There was one author that we were looking at and
we ended up not publishing her book. But I feel
badly as I tell the story about what she went
through to write that we're not republishing her. But there's
this fun author who she was. She followed her husband
or actually I guess he was actually her boyfriend to
(20:53):
a gold panning camp outside of San Francisco, and so
she was spending her days panning for She had one
child with her, and at night she would borrow the
typewriter from the postmistress in the nearest little town and
you know, by candle light be writing. And when you
(21:14):
think about what that must have been like, you know,
to be out in the sun panning for gold all
day every day, also taking care of a little boy,
and I don't know what you have to do to
keep a tent clean. But I'm sure that was being
done just to like put food on your little makeshift
table and you brow exactly and then at night to
(21:37):
go haul your cookies in the town, get a typewriter,
bang it out for a few hours. And I mean
that kind of commitment. I don't think I could do that.
But yes, that's sort of an extreme story. But it's
by no means the only story like that. And we
think about that with our three authors that we have
for our first three books.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Sure, yes, all.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Forty Canfield Fisher, Amelia Gardner White, All of these women
were writing seventy eighty ninety hundred years ago, but they
also had, you know, other lives. They had families, and
they had husbands and children and jobs and jobs, and
they found not only found the time to write and
(22:22):
in some cases write very prolifically, but they also got
them published, which you know, women were not as published
as much as men, certainly, and the topics that they
were writing about were sometimes not things that were seen
as books that men would want to read. And therefore
(22:45):
maybe you know, not as valuable or not as worthy
of publication as you know, I don't know a male
author's work, and it's just it's so impressive to think
of them as doing what they did when they did it,
you know, in the nineteen twenties, when you know raven
(23:07):
children was you know, homemaking was your job, that was
your you know, that was what women did. But to
also carve out time to do something that was really
important to you in creating a book, it's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (23:23):
Can you tell us about the three books on your
Normural list and about each book.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Where you want to? Do you want to start? Do
you want I can start so that our first book
is called The Homemaker by Dorothy Cancel Fisher, And we
were just talking about the expectations for women, you know,
being homemakers, stay at home moms. And the main character
in this book, her name is Eva. We find her
(23:55):
at the beginning of the book as a very dedicated,
uh affectionist of homemaking, so much so that she's super
stressed out about it, and she makes her family super
stressed out by her impossible to meet standards, and her
three children are miserable. And her husband, who is a
(24:20):
kind of the poet dreamer type who goes off to
work every day and is not very effective in his job.
Everyone's miserable doing what they're doing. And unfortunately, but also
kind of fortunately, Lester has an accident and he is
no longer able to work outside of the home. So
even Lester has to switch jobs. And Eva goes out
(24:40):
into the workplace and finds that she has a knack
for being a saleswoman, and Lester stays home with the
kids and finds out that he has a knack for
child rearing. And it's this book that was written in
nineteen twenty four, so over one hundred years ago, but
the themes of the book are things that we still
(25:01):
talk about today. You know. This this the expectations that
are put on women to be, you know, sort of
perfect in everything that they do. The fact that even today,
you know, the stay at home dad scenario is still
the alternative scenario, not not the given one, not the
(25:24):
default one by a long shot. And you know what
it means to to do things outside of the box
that society puts you in. It's a it's a really
fascinating look at that and feels completely relevant. The writing
and and you know, the themes and the characters definitely
(25:47):
hold up, and it's a really great read and the author,
Dorothy Cansel Fisher, is a is an interesting character herself.
She wrote a number of books, but she is also
credited with bringing the monitoring method of education to the
United States, which is some which is touched upon in
(26:09):
The Homemaker. You see some of the the experiential learning
in the hands on learning that are sort of tall
marks of Montessori you see in her book as well
in The Homemaker. And Dorothy Canfields this year sort of
lived the Homemaker a little bit. She was the breadlinner
in her family and her husband raised the children at
(26:32):
least for at least for part of the time. And
she's also a little you know, she's complicated, as we
all are, but she is complicated in that she was
very sort of ahead of her time in terms of
education and in terms of being a champion for civil
rights and things like that. But she was also mired
(26:55):
in her time as part of the eugenics movement in
the state of Vermont that was trying to urge only
the right kinds of people to settle in Vermont and
only the right kind of people to reproduce in Vermont,
which you know resulted in there. I'm not sure, it
resulted in but proposed serialization of certain people and certain populations,
(27:17):
so she had, you know, she was a It had
two sides, as you know a lot of us do.
So yeah, it's but we think it's a really it's
a really great book, and it would be a really
great book club book if anybody's got a book club
out there. There's even a guide at the end to
help people if they want to, if they would like
to use The Homemaker as a book club book. Our
(27:41):
second book is Yes. Our second book is Plumb Buddy
by Jesse Redmonds Clastt, and this again a very interesting
book with a very interesting author. The book itself is
about this yeah, black woman named Angela who is living
(28:03):
in Philadelphia with her parents. She's very gifted in the art,
very ambitious, beautiful, and when her parents pass away, she
decides to move to New York City and lives life
as a white woman because she is light skinned. If
(28:24):
she is not in the company of her sister, who
is dark skinned, people assume that she's white. So she
makes this difficult decision to leave her her community and
her sister and move to New York. And it's all about,
you know, the choices that she makes, the things that
she gains, and everything that she gives up because what
(28:45):
she finds out is yes, life as a white person
affords more opportunities, but as a white woman, she still
has a lot of limitations put on her. Again, it's
a story about trying to live outside of the boxes
that society puts you in. And it's a fascinating book
(29:07):
that again very relative relevant conversation today around identity and
passing what it means to let someone else tell you
what your identity is versus your being able to decide
for yourself, assume and assume something and then it turns
(29:28):
into your responsibility to correct the brand. It's a really interesting,
interesting take on that. Written in nineteen twenty nine, so
again almost one hundred years old, but feels very fresh today.
And the author, Jesse Redmonds Faucet, is a really interesting
person here has definitely not gotten her due. She was
(29:54):
credited for launching the careers of people like Links and
Hughes during the Harlem In a month. She worked as
a literary editor for The Crisis Magazine, which was the
NAACP's magazine, and she wrote four novels herself. But for
a number of reasons those have gone. You know, they're
(30:16):
not forgotten totally, but they're definitely under the radar, not
mainstreams at all. Yeah, and so we wanted to shine
a light on Plumbbun because we actually like all of
her books, but this one especially spoke to us. And
you know, we've been reading contemporary novelists like Britt Bennett.
She wrote The Vanishing Half a couple of years ago,
(30:38):
and the themes are just so strikingly similar. Definitely a
good pairing, I think if you want to do a
little study on identity and passing The Vanishing Half by
Britt Bennett, plumb Bun, and then of course Melows was Passing,
which was written in the same year as plumb One,
but has for a number of reasons.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
Maybe.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Yeah, I don't know what they are. Having read both
of them, I'm really not sure. Well, I think that
you had a really good point, which was that you know,
it's all about like, what perspective are we learning the
story from? And one one Angela is the protagonist, and
so we are following her around and she's she's the
one that's making all these decisions to deny her sister,
(31:25):
to leave her community, and she has a super pragmatic
outlook on life, but I wouldn't say it makes her
highly likable. Whereas in Passing you're seeing the story is
unfolding with someone looking upon the person who is passing
and passing judgment on it, right, And so it's told
(31:45):
from a different perspective, and it might be one that's
more palatable because of that. And I think that was
a really good point you had.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
You know, it just shows that even though these books
are a hundred or close to one hundred years old,
things haven't changed.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
I mean it's just people will put people in boxes
and will force their story on others of what you
can and cannot do, what's expected of you, and women,
especially in the nineteen twenties, were expected to stay at
home and child wearing. Always in the responsibilities of the
(32:27):
home always was on the woman, the women. That's just
how what and it still is. I mean maybe the
younger generation, I don't know, is more you know, equal
and the responsibilities of the home, but it was usually
(32:47):
the female. I don't like. I look back my grandmother,
my mother's mother, she ran a laundry store and put
on a spread every whead had people over. I don't
know how she did it.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Yeah, I remember. I mean, my husband's definitely more involved
in our kids' lives growing up. But I remember if
my dad picks me up from school, that was a
big deal. I mean, I think I remember happening like
twice because it just didn't he was not that was
my mom's job, and he was at his job, and
(33:26):
when he appeared sort of unexpectedly during the day, it
was like, oh, wow, you know, something's going on, something
is special. And I don't know that kids have that
perspective anymore. I think those studies have shown that even
when when the two parents are both yeah, working, that
(33:48):
the bulk of the mom and the child rearing still
falls mostly on those women. And whether it's it's actually
you know, in terms of like time, it certainly oftentimes
like having to be sort of responsible for the decisions
like or if somebody is thick or whatever, who ends
(34:09):
up and his train disappointment, Right, it's track of you know, yeah, managing,
and that I think is mo Yeah, not only, but
definitely I think all studies point in the direction. Yeah,
it's respect for holding that and and the putting you know,
putting people in in boxes and assuming things about them
(34:32):
and then being angry when they turn out to be wrong.
That's that's something that we saw a lot in Plumbbun,
which is I don't know, I find that very interesting,
the idea that you have assumed something about someone and
then when you turned out to be wrong, that that
it was their fault for you know, misleading you. I
(34:54):
think that still happens too. That's still a that's still
a thing. Yeah. I think a lot of these books,
you know, are about we were talking earlier about things
that concern women, you know, meaning the home relationships, the
interior lives of women is like what all three of
(35:16):
our books are about, and and that that hasn't really
changed in the last hundred years. Like we maybe it's
because it's just human, you know, and these are the
things that we care about. But that's definitely why they've
held up over time. And our third book, which doesn't
have any like major game, is still very compelling. We
(35:41):
like to say that it's it's called the Pink House
by nearly a gardener White, and it's this one is
more of a like Braman likes to say, it's the
Cozy up, you know, on a couch with a cup
of tea kind of read. It's like a gothic sort
of feel romance black, a big house with lots of secrets,
(36:03):
family dysfunction, and it's all pulled from the viewpoint of
At the beginning of the story, she's a young girl, Nora,
who has been recently orphaned, and she has to go
live with an aunt and nuncle that she doesn't really
know very well and their children, and all she really
wants is to fit in and you know, feel welcome
(36:25):
in some way, and that is not the house for it,
and she has to learn how to navigate that. And
the Watcher she's a watcher and a big thinker, and
so we just spend a lot of time in her
mind and it's it's a very quiet book, but it's
super compelling. The characters are interesting and you get to
(36:45):
sort of go for It takes place over how many
years for I don't remember. We watched her girl up exactly, Yeah,
and it's it's a slow burn and it's very very good.
And all three of our books have good resolution. Fad
(37:07):
flying and yeah, yeah, no one, no one is left hanging, yeah,
which I appreciate.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
They all down fantastic.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Nelia Gardner White, who wrote The
Pink House, wrote many not and she is out of
print and mostly unknown, although very well regarded. O day.
I mean, it's just so crazy well reviewed. Yeah, mentioned
(37:38):
in the same uh breath as uh who Calvin Trillin
maybe or the LANs or I can't who was it?
And I can't remember. It's a bad sea memories are not.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
That's okay, and.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Arthur Miller like they yeah, mentioned in the same sentence
with them in a positive way. And yet she's, you know,
just gone. And I believe we found her just poking
around in the library. We came to a shelf that
had a bunch of books by the same woman, and
we thought, well, what is this, And that's how we
(38:19):
got to her. I think we will be publishing more
of her books. She has so many, end of a
lot and they're good to read. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
How did you decide when you were starting quite literally
books of what authors are you wanted to introduce? And
well books because of I mean, there's just so much
to choose from.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
I to choose from, but it's hard to find. We've
read probably hundreds of books in the last three years. Yeah,
and it sort of comes down to what you think
is a really good book. And two of our books
join the public domain, which is great because that means
(39:10):
that we can just find them without permission. The Pink
House is still under copyright, so we had to get
permission for that one, and sometimes it's hard to get permission.
There are some books that we would love to publish,
but we're at dead ends in terms of getting permission
to publish them because they're still under copyright. And sometimes
we can't even find the person from whom we need
(39:34):
to get the permissions. Like the way you know it
truly is like being a private investigator. You have to
use all means in front of you, which in our
case es mostly the internet, you know, reading obituaries and
reaching out to publishers that may own the rights. There
is a database at the University of Texas that has
(39:57):
a lot of these uh what do you call them?
Literary state information for writers, but it's not by any
means complete, and so it is just a whole lot
of sleuthing and getting lucky. And even if you get lucky,
you may still repent it if someone you know doesn't
(40:18):
really want want their grandmother's book published, or you know
that it does happen. And we do have a shelf
here of books right in front of us, of things
that we hope we'll be able to publish someday in
the future, but are shelved for the time being.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
I was going to ask you, I'm glad you brought
that up because I had it down here to ask
you about, because I was wondering about copyright issues. How
do you go about that? You see a book that
you like, you you know, you read the book, but
to get the copyright issues from the other because they're
they're not alive.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Yeah, you have to. You have to try to figure
it out. And some times when who we're looking for
stuff by right now in the air's name and like
Stephen Johnson and Stephen there, you know up team Stephen
Johnson in ancestry dot com, it could be, you know,
any one of them. I wonder if it was easier,
like when you actually did have phone books and you
(41:17):
could go to the library and and look up and
call all the Stephen Johnson's. I don't know, I can't
really do that anymore, but that, you know, might have
been a in a way although there's probably two thousand
Stevens a lot of true.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah, right, especially common name.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, exactly, So we're always hopeful for a name that
is unusual. Yes, you know up Ramm and Google kind
of name. Pa, you're not at least the Cooper kind
of name.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
And your your books are already out, your first three
books that you mentioned, Uh, we're out on April seventh.
When do you plan on putting out your other books?
Do you have like a set schedule how many books
a year you'll be putting out books?
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Yes, so our production schedule is going to be we're
putting up three books in the spring, three books in
the fall. So our next grouping will be coming out
at the beginning of November. And so we're fart at
work already starting to get those bike sne and freu
bread and all of that stuff because November will be here. Appreciation.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, this year is why I am by Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
And I agree with what you said at the beginning
that the these are great books and Mother's Day is coming,
so just a little plug if you go to your
mom might really like these books. I mean, we do
have a mother safety right, we have a book bundle,
so you can get all three of our books. Plus
we will also give you one of our really amazing
(43:02):
tote bags. It's just a little free gift for your
money or your or your mother person whoever. That mays.
If you have to make them carry it, you can,
they have the promise to carry it around. It does
say quite literally books and people that there's people ask
them about it. They're super cute. We got these tote
bags designed with like a lot of extra pockets inside
(43:23):
because we we need lots of pocket.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Yeah yeah, oh wow, that sounds wrong.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Oh that sounds And.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
So your website and this is this is where people
can connect with you quite literally books dot com and
they order the books in there and they could contact you.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yes, that's a great place to write to us. We
have a you can click on our email there and
send us a note. We really would love if people
would tell us what they think of our books. And
also they can order our books from there. We will
films in them right from right from our office.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Ye have.
Speaker 2 (44:03):
We wrap each one by hand and they're super cute.
And if someone wants to order our books from say
their local independent bookstore, they can be ordered through our distributor.
Uh just ask your ask your local independent bookstore for
this particular book and they will be able to get it.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
I also like how you have on the inside the
book jacket that you kind of, you know, told the
reader you know, this is I'm going to paraphrase an
older books, so some of the wording is from back
then in case people might take, you know, offense to it. Uh.
(44:48):
Do you find that anything in your books are controversial
by today's standards.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
I mean, you know, maybe Plumb Bun and particular has
racial flurs in it that are objectable now, and you
know they're offensive now, and they were offensive when the
book was written. They were used by the author, who
is a black woman, and we have left them to
(45:20):
our book. They're her words and and we feel like
it's not for us to change them. They were used
in this particular context to show how white people, you know,
spoke of black people and to show you know, the
(45:40):
kind of world that they lived in, the type of
Pejordan that they were subject to, and we felt that
that was important to leave in there.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Ye. Huge, Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
We we don't believe in whitewashing history. And these books
are historical documents and we do make choices in terms
of if something has it's not a great book, obviously
we won't print it. If something is a good book
that has racial views that are just too offensive to
(46:20):
get passed and devalue the book or a spouse a
viewpoint maybe that the author has, as opposed to a
viewpoint that perhaps a particular character has, we will probably
choose not to print it. We read a number of
books that we were excited about and then all of
(46:42):
a sudden got you know, turned upside down by somethingor
either like casual racism. Yeah, it's really everywhere. It is everywhere.
It is in the water we drink, and so and
so we do make this around that we won't be
printing something that we feel continues to have a viewpoint
(47:08):
that is, you know, aboring.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
I think that it's important in a way for people
to see and to read that this is how it
was back then, and we shouldn't quitewash it. You know,
this is history, this is how people were unfortunately treated.
And yeah, I think it's important lesson when people pick
(47:35):
up a book like that to set you know, for
them to know because we're I know, back when I
was growing up, I wasn't taught everything about history that
went on. I didn't learn until later. And I'm sure
now the kids today are not taught about history the
(47:57):
way it really was. And now you have, you know,
the books being banned and people want to rewrite history
excuse they try not to get political.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
But well, and not only are these books, you know,
an opening to talk about history, but they're also an
opening to talk about today. You know, there are a
way to talk about how things have not changed and
how you know, the things that are that we're still
as a nation grappling with, ye know, and we trust
(48:33):
that our readers are capable of through dwelling in that
really uncomfortable space, and are capable of handling and holding
nuance and can have really respectful and important conversations with
one another about about the things that come out of
these books.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Excuse me, absolutely, what is your Oh? Go ahead, no?
Speaker 2 (49:00):
If I say important, but also sometimes levened with humor, coolice,
then I do always find the way to find something
not serious. When we talk about we talked well, you know,
humor is like a big part of I mean, you know, amazing, yeah,
I mean, and also like I feel like that's that's
(49:21):
a really big piece of being human is our ability
to do that right, not absolutely, but like everything has
sort of like the funny side to it. Yeah, you know, yeah, okay,
interrupted you that's okay.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
I wa'ts your hope for quite literally books? What would
you like the readers to know?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
One of my hopes is that we get to do
this for a really long time. One of my host
is that is that people love the books that we
pick and and we re engage with them and want
to buy them and want to have them in their library,
and that Lisa and I get to keep reading a
zillion books and as we think are good for a
(50:12):
very long time. Yeah. I think when we first started
as one of the things that was appealing with you know,
the relationship that Verman and I have around books is
so rich and fun to engage with one another. And
we were thinking, like, what if we just met more
people that like to do this, you know, just like
we do. And we know they're out there, but we've
(50:34):
never been big, you know, joiners of book clubs. I
don't know why that is, but this idea of like
kind of creating a space for people who are drawn
to this kind of thing come to us we thought
might be a really wonderful way to build a community
of readers that enjoy engaging the way we do.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
That. I agree, you know, I've just thought of this.
I have an idea for you for you both. Did
you ever think of starting your own book club with
your book? Have?
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Actually we have thought about it. Yeah, we're talking about
how we could do that just today. Yeah, wow DIGITALI.
Speaker 1 (51:20):
Yeah, I just thought about. Well, thank you both for
coming on. I enjoyed, uh talking to you both, and
I wish you both the best of luck. Folks. I
had to say this, Lisa Cooper remind mcdougle did a wonderful,
(51:42):
wonderful job with these books. I have three of them,
their first three, and I really want to uh read them.
They are absolutely beautiful, the cover, the paper, the print.
It is a wonderful gift to buy yourself and someone
(52:03):
else a gift any time of the year. I don't
know this will be out before Mother's Day, but any
time of the year is perfect to give someone a book.
Father's Day. There's graduations coming up right right.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Well, actually, I would like to say this. We talked
about this quite a bit together. You know, our I
think our readers are going to tend to be women.
But boy, we would really encourage men to pick up
a book that is written by a woman about a woman,
because if you think women are confusing, this is a
really great way to less you know, the interior life
(52:46):
of women is how you understand women. So we would
like to encourage all the men out there to pick
up one of our books.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
I love that. Yes, that that's a great idea of
absolutely uh, because how else are men going to really
know about women unless they pick up a book about
women and to know, you know what went on. But
thank you so much, folks. You heard Lisa. You're welcome.
(53:20):
Lisa Cooper and Ramond McDougall. They are owners of quite
literally books. I want to just put it out there, folks,
help them make this a sssess. Go on their website,
which will be in the blog, and order their beautiful books.
(53:41):
I'm telling you you will love them. I'm old fashioned.
I can't read from a computer. I can't read from
a from my phone due to my eye problems. But
even if I didn't have them, I like to hold
a book. There's nothing better to me than holding that
book and flipping the pages and I just can't say
(54:06):
it enough because I really think that you both did
a really a wonderful job. I'm not a book critic
by any means. I'm just little on me here in
New Jersey. But I know a beautiful book when I
see one. And Folks, you will not be disappointed. Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (54:29):
Like appreciate, We appreciate your support. Thank you for letting
us talk with you.
Speaker 1 (54:35):
Oh, you are welcome to my pleasure. Folks. All the
information about quite Literally Books will be in the blog
that Jennie White is the station manager, right, so please
read the blog. Please share the show with your friends
and tell them about quite Literally books dot com. And
I want to thank Leland Coldwell, who is CEO of
(54:58):
pastor will Talk Gradom Network that makes it's all possible.
If you don't have a ready subscribe to Chatting with Betsy,
please do so. It's for free on Spotify, Spreaker. iHeart
Amazon Music, and I want to give a shout out
to LESO Warren, who is president of Lesto Warren p R.
(55:18):
Who arranged this interview and many many of my guests
are from Lysto Warren p R. And if you're looking
for a top notch publicist. I highly recommend Leuso Warren
p R. You would not be disappointed as far as
I'm concerned, And yeah, I might be a little biased.
(55:41):
Lease Lussa Warren is top notch in her field. And
as I always say at the the end of my show,
do you want to contact me? I'm on Facebook Betsy
Worzel w r z e L and I have a
support group your caregiver hashtag kick Alzheimer's Ask Move And
(56:01):
as I end my show, I always say, the worlds
where you could be anything. Please be kind and shine.
You're life bright because we need it now more than
ever before. Thank you for listening. This is Betsy words All.
You're a host of Chatting with Betsy. I'm passionate. World
Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of Global Media Network LLC.
(56:24):
Bye bye now
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