November 17, 2025 • 47 mins
Discover how understanding economics can empower everyday Americans. Howard Yaruss joins Betsy Wurzel to explain inflation, Social Security, Medicare, and the financial myths shaping our daily lives.
In this enlightening episode of Chatting with Betsy, host Betsy Wurzel talks with Howard Yaruss — economist, professor, attorney, businessman, and author of Understandable Economics. Howard breaks down how our economic system works in simple, practical terms that every American can understand. Together, they explore some of the biggest myths in today’s conversations about money, including whether Social Security and Medicare are really “running out of money,” why inflation happens, and what causes shrinkflation.
Howard explains why billionaire Warren Buffett pays a lower tax rate than his secretary, how recessions develop, how national debt works, and why consumer spending is the true engine of job creation. Howard believes economic literacy gives people real power to understand policies that affect their daily lives. As he notes, “Our politicians work for us — we are their employers.” Betsy shares that Understandable Economics is the first economics book she has ever read, and she found it eye-opening and easy to understand.
Betsy highly recommends it for anyone — high school and up — who wants to understand the world around them in clear, everyday language. Learn more about Howard Yaruss, his book, and his work at his website or on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. 💛 Greater understanding leads to greater empowerment — start learning how economics shapes your daily life.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
💡 At Passionate World Talk Radio, we believe real conversations matter. Stay inspired and keep listening to Chatting with Betsy at www.passionateworldtalkradio.com.
In this enlightening episode of Chatting with Betsy, host Betsy Wurzel talks with Howard Yaruss — economist, professor, attorney, businessman, and author of Understandable Economics. Howard breaks down how our economic system works in simple, practical terms that every American can understand. Together, they explore some of the biggest myths in today’s conversations about money, including whether Social Security and Medicare are really “running out of money,” why inflation happens, and what causes shrinkflation.
Howard explains why billionaire Warren Buffett pays a lower tax rate than his secretary, how recessions develop, how national debt works, and why consumer spending is the true engine of job creation. Howard believes economic literacy gives people real power to understand policies that affect their daily lives. As he notes, “Our politicians work for us — we are their employers.” Betsy shares that Understandable Economics is the first economics book she has ever read, and she found it eye-opening and easy to understand.
Betsy highly recommends it for anyone — high school and up — who wants to understand the world around them in clear, everyday language. Learn more about Howard Yaruss, his book, and his work at his website or on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. 💛 Greater understanding leads to greater empowerment — start learning how economics shapes your daily life.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/chatting-with-betsy--4211847/support.
💡 At Passionate World Talk Radio, we believe real conversations matter. Stay inspired and keep listening to Chatting with Betsy at www.passionateworldtalkradio.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everyone, This is Betsy Worthal, your host of Chatting
with Betsy A Passer World Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary
of Global Media Network LLC. Our mantras to educate, enlighten,
and entertain. The views of a guest made not represent
those of the hosts of the station. Folks, do you
(00:23):
ever wonder about economics? Do you understand economics? I know
I didn't, and I finally read a book about economics
which I thought was fantastic. And you're gonna want to
stay tuned for my show and my guests. My guest
today is Howard Euris. He is an economist, professor, attorney, businessman,
(00:47):
and the activist who has taught a variety of courses
on economics and business and currently teaches at New York University.
He is author and writer of Understandable Economics because understanding
our economy is easier than you think and more important
(01:07):
than you know. Updated edition with the new introduction Welcome,
how are yours? The Chatting with Betsy great?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Well, I'm happy to have you here, and I have
to tell you I'm going to be sixty eight. Lord
Williams December, and this is the first book I ever
read about economics.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
The most Americans, it really does. The most Americans have
never read a book on economics, have never taken a
course on economics, and it's really unfortunate because it greatly
affects each of our lives.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yes, and I thank you for writing this book and
making it where I can't understand it. So I think that,
in my humble opinion, Howard, that everyone should to get
your book because it's really important to know what's going on.
And since I've read the book, I like to think
(02:09):
of you when I go shopping, and I think of
the tiuffs. But let me backtrack and ask you what
motivated you to write your book?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
And I'm good, I did you know?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I think most people's interests in life start when they're young.
And I worked in my father's grocery store when I
was a teenager, and I saw some people who were
he had a soft spot for people who were like
in their seventies and didn't have enough money to make
ends meet. Their social security was inadequate, so I saw
how these people really struggled. And then I saw people
(02:47):
closer to my own age who may or may not
have finished high school, and it was clear that their
careers were going nowhere. And I thought that there's such
a big difference in our opportunity, in resources, in the
chances that people have in life in our country, and
(03:07):
I just wanted to learn more about it. I became again,
I became fascinated by this topic, like why there are
such these vast differences, and that's what led me to
study economics.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Well, I have the segment on opinion Howard. Your students
are very lucky, be very fortunate to have you as
their professor because you make, you know, just in your
book alone, you make things very easy to understand. And
I've heard you another podcast and I was like, wow,
I mean, I learned so much from listening to you
(03:42):
on other shows, and I just really appreciate you bringing
awareness to how important economics is. In honor of my dad.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh go ahead, No, it is a selfish component to
well well to that as well, and if you read
the book, you know what it is. I just think
that if people are uninformed, the politicians can get away
essentially with anything, and by having people more well informed
about how economics works and how it affects their lives,
(04:18):
My hope is that they would be in a position
to support better policies and in turn better politicians, and
we'd all live in a better, more productive nation. And
so that's my alterior motive for writing the book. It's
not just to inform for information's sake. It's to enable
people to be better citizens, to be more astute voters.
(04:40):
And that affects not only them, but affects all of us.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
That is very true. And I had to ask you
this question because you hear it all the time in
honor of my father, Howard worthol who is to take
this all the time?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Is social Security?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
You know they scare of and I do collect social Security.
I didn't want to collect it at sixty two, but
because COVID had happened and my place closed and my
husband had just died, that I decided, you know, it
was better for me to collect it. Actually, I went
(05:24):
before COVID, like before my husband died. I went to
fill it out and I say, you know, I really
don't want to collect it sixty two, but if I
have to leave work and take care of him, I
need some money coming in.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
And the Social Security person said, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
You could take it, and then you could always rescind it.
You know, you could stop and then final again, you
know when you want to. But I had to do that,
and my father would always say, oh, social Security is
in a locked box. Then you hear people say, oh,
it's going to run out of money. And even at
(06:03):
Art I get the Art bulletin magazine and listen their
September October issue, Howard, and they're talking about that the
trust funds, the Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries canon for
financial support and health will run out of money sooner
than projected unless the lawmakers act. And then it says
(06:25):
social Security will run out of money by twenty thirty four.
That's not Doug far away. And also Medicare Part egg
will be depleted by twenty thirty three. So they have
this in the magazine. That scares me.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
I mean, that scares me and many many others.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So is that a mess that.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Is or is it to scare I'll tell you what
it is. How Come we don't talk about whether the
Pentagon is going to go bankrupt or run out of
money exactly, talk about the Department of Agriculture going bank
up to running out of money. Social Security is a
government program. I know they allocate certain funds to it.
It's a segregated fund now through the fight attacks. But
(07:11):
it is a government program like every other program the
government has. And if Congress appropriates enough money, it'll be fine.
If Congress doesn't appropriate enough money, it won't be fine.
It's a political question, not an economic question. So that
is just those kinds of claims are just made to
scare people. Again, it's up to Congress and it depends
(07:33):
totally upon what they decide to do. Just like with
the Pentagon.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You bring up a good point, and that's what I
find fascinating because that's always a hot topic for election year.
You know, this politician is going to cut Social Security.
This one that is not going to do it. Social
Security is going to run out of money. I mean,
I've been hearing this for years. That's what I thought
(07:59):
I would get the needed debates about it.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
And it was so.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
It was kind of comforting in a way to me
when you say, oh, it's up to you know, Congress,
they can put the way.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Yeah, in a way, that's not because if you have
this is why it's so important for people to understand
how basically how these things work. Because it's if if
people feel like there's some objective economic reason why so
security can't be afforded or can't be paid.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
For, they can have the will pull pulled over their eyes.
They have to know. It's just like the Pentagon. If
Congress has the will to fund it, it's funded. If
it doesn't, it doesn't, and you have to make sure
you elect people to office who are dedicated to that funding.
It's that as simple as that.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
M h.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
It's a very good point. I really I learned something.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
We're not. We're not Argentina that is potentially defaulting on
its debt. It's a rich country. If it wants to
pay the funds it promised retirees, it certainly can. It's
a question of will and not can.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
That's a that's a really good point to make, Howard,
And I bet. I mean, I didn't know that until
I read your book, yeah, and heard you speak.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
And if I.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Didn't know that, I know there's many many others who don't,
which is why I love having a variety of guests.
And I never had an economist on before economist on,
before I had a financial you know, person on. So
I'm really grateful, and I'm so glad that.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I did read your book.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
And you know, I didn't even know what tariffs were.
I didn't understand how that worked until I read your book.
Could you please explain what the tariffs are to the audience.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Well of the class. The best explanations are short, and
so I always try to explain things in as few
words as possible. So my goal with tariffs is three words,
how's that it's a tax on imports? Three words, it's
a tax on imports. What are tariffs? When a bottle
of French wine comes into the United States, a tax
(10:27):
is put on it in the in understandable economics, I
use the example of a twenty dollars bottle of French wine,
and then if the government imposes a thirty percent tariff
on it, again attax on imports, it's thirty percent of
twenty dollars worth six dollars extra. It's going to cost
six dollars more because the government put a six dollars
(10:50):
tax on it, a thirty percent tax. So tariffs are
simply attack on exports.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Which make our word, right, our goods that we consume
more expensive because as basically you know, everything is from overseas,
I could tell you how are that even going? Like
clothes shopping, I'm stunned. Like I've seen clothing go up
(11:18):
six seven dollars because it's made over remarkable.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
But here's the more interesting thing that people forget. And again,
the whole idea of the book is that if you
have some basic information and good comment sense, you could
figure things out. So let's talk about tariffs. So I
use the example in the book. If you remember the
twenty dollars French bottle of wine and twenty five twenty
dollars California bottle of wine. And I'm a consumer and
(11:46):
I like the French wine better, so I buy the
French wine at the same price. Once the French wine
goes to twenty six dollars, I'm much more likely to
buy the California wine because it's only twenty dollars. But
that's wearing the consumer. Hap think about the French wine
the California winery. I'm going to say, my competition's price
(12:08):
just went from twenty dollars to twenty six dollars. Hey,
I could probably get away with charging twenty four dollars
and still be more competitive. So what do tariffs. Do
they raise prices on all goods, even those produced domestically
because the domestic manufacturers have more leeway to raise their
prices because their competitors' prices went up.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That is interesting. Yeah, it is because that just you know,
jack's up the price. I have to ask you this tower.
I mean, that might sound like a bizarre question, but
I am like when I go to my local grocery
store every week, I am sticker shocked every week that
(12:54):
I go. And I don't know how. I guess companies
can get away with this. I like Cashes my son,
and I like like Cashews. This particular brand shrunk their
packaging and raised the price, so you get your ounces
less and you pay more.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I mean, I know, yes, shrink flation inflation is increasing
the price. Shrink Inflation is shrinking the quantity you get,
which is which is a backdoor way to increasing the price.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I'm looking at it and I'm like, wait a minute.
I know I'm not hallucinating here. This is definitely smaller,
and and you know, the price got jacked up over
a dollar more, and I'm like, how do they get
away with this? And uh, Coco, they said, chocolate was
(13:59):
going to go way up. Well, it certainly has. I mean,
it is just insane. I'll just give you an example.
I used to get a box of good Die of
chocolates for holiday time. I haven't had in a long
time because I'm trying to stay away from that. And
I went over to look at a box. The same
(14:20):
box that I brought maybe four years ago was twenty
eight dollars.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Howard, it's now forty four dollars.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I'm sad that is a big jump, because are really
pushing our prices and why do we have tariffs? Well, again,
the people voted for a president who supported them. This
is the choice that the American people made.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I'll give you another example, if you don't mind, Howard.
Last year I had a lease turn in my lease
car get another one. I was love to be able
to buy a car outright, but I can't afford the payments.
And I've had Toyota cameras for the past three cars.
I couldn't afford a camera. I got a Corolla, and
(15:16):
I don't know what I'll be driving next time. I
say I'm gonna drive a Fred flint Stone car, you know,
uly stating myself here, break in the in the talk.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Sure, okay, I will call you back in between five
and ten minutes.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Oh, then I had to re record everything I thought
you just wanted to. Yeah, I'd had to re record
the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Can we take a two minute break then.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I could two minute break? Yeah, because I could add
lib I'll just keep talking. Okay, Yeah, that's fine, Okay,
all right, Okay, everyone taking a break, and Howard yours
will be back with us. The name of the book
is Understandable Economics, because understanding our economy is easier than
(16:15):
you think and more important than you know. Of data
edition with the new introductions, and I was so happy
to know that it was seen in the Borns and
Noble store near me, and I just didn't want to
(16:37):
encourage you all to order Understandable Economics. That it's not
in your local book store, then please tell them to
order it before you. And next month is November, and
November is National Alzheimer's Month and National Caregivers Awareness Months.
(17:02):
So if you know a caregiver, please reach out to them,
show them that you care. And if you are having
any concerns about your memory at all, please consult your
primary care doctor for any concerns that you have because
(17:23):
there are clinical trials. There are different tests now that
they can do for your memory, for your brain to
be checked.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And for you to have peace of mind.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And I also would like to tell you all that
chatting with Betsy is free to subscribed to on Spotify, Spreaker,
Amazon Music, and you can program chatting with Betsy on Alexa.
So you just tell Alexa program chatting with Betsy. Okay, Well,
(18:01):
welcome back, Howards.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You're welcome. I'm good at a living Okay, where were
we are? So I'm dating myself about the Fred Flintstone car.
Right if anyone ever saw our bicycle. I don't know
how to ride a bike, would you believe that? So
I probably would have to learn. And just the price
(18:25):
I couldn't believe it. I mean how much they went up.
And it is because of the tariff, so you know,
it's everything all the other taxes go up. It doesn't
help me personally to be paying more with these tariffs.
(18:46):
I mean, it just made to me in my situation
the economy worse for me. And you know that's why
people are are struggling. And you're seeing people that are
retired getting out of retirement and working because.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
They need to work.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Well. The tariffs were not did not come from from
the planet Mars. They were imposed by the politicians they elected.
So maybe they should consider next time electing politicians who
would be in favor of lower taxes.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yes, yes, uh, definitely, yes.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
You know what I.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Found fascinating.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Reachie book.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
A while ago, you told a story about I forgot
which guy it was. They pay less taxes, but their
secretary pays more because there are money is tied up
into Yes, right, that was interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
One of the five British people in the world, he
has a fortune of about one hundred billion dollars and
he has a secretary, and he pays a lower tax
rate than his secretary because his secretary earns her income
through wages, which are taxed at a certain percentage, and
he earns his money through investment income, which is taxed
(20:12):
at a much lower percentage on average, So that people
who make money through investment income pay lower taxes as
a percentage of their income than people who earn money
from wages. And you could guess which people rely on
more on investment income than wages. Wealthy people, the lower
down in the economic spectrum you are, the more, the
(20:36):
greater the portion of your income that comes from wages.
For most people, all of their income comes from wages.
It's only wealthy people. They get a certain percentage of
their income or a large percentage of their income through investments,
and that again is taxed at a lower, lower percentage rate.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Ah. I found that very interesting. And you know you
hear that, you know, I mean I always heard that
the rich people had their loopholes, so they don't pay as.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Much as physician to loopholes. Wow, even after the loopholes,
the percentage tax is lower. So loopholes is not loopholes.
What do loopholes do? They reduce the amount of your
taxable income. But even after applying all of those loopholes,
they're paying lower tax rates than people who earn their
(21:31):
money through wages.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
That is well, that's unfair to me. To me, that's unfair.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Well, again, this is not something that comes out of nature.
This is the decision made by the people we elected
to office. It's just it's just they write the tax code.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Can I asked you a question about that, Howard? So
when politicians talk about taxes the rich more, are they
talking about taxing those funds that they are paying a
lower tax right on.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Well, it depends because there's two ways to do it.
Just increase the percentage rates or or there are some
politicians who claim that investment income should be taxed at
the same rate as work income wages. So there are
two ways to do it. I know in New York
State where I live, the state income tax doesn't distinguish
(22:34):
between wage income and investment income that both taxed at
the same rate. It's only on the federal level, which
is the big bite, that's the big expense, that there
is a distinction between investment income and wag income and
again investment income being taxed at a much lower rate.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
That's I find that fascinating and could you address it's
mind bog Like, I know what property tax is outrageous
New York, New Jersey, the whole tri state area is
ridiculous with the property tax. And years ago when Christine
(23:13):
Whitman was governor, I heard she paid less because she
had what you would consider a form so they pay
less than property tax. And I was like, you know,
they do find their, you know, ways to get out
of paying when they could very well afford to pay.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
How does.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Property tax work?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
I mean it keeps going up all the time.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
How many text is really simple, it's the how does
the value of your home, which is an assessed value,
so there's a value to your home. They multiply it
by the tax rate, which is usually in the range
of one to three percent, and that's what you pay
each year to the local government. Property taxes are imposed
by the local government. Typically, income taxes are imposed by
(24:07):
either the federal government in Washington or the state government.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I would love to go to a class of yours
if I could. You.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
They fund what are they fund? They fund the schools,
they fund the police, right, the fire, they fund the
local services.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, and every year, well not even every year every
because in New Jersey we get it like quarterly, like
November will be the last, and then they'll send it
up in February. So it's February and May, and then
it's August and November, and.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
It always twice a year.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Oh well, it's it's nuts. I knew someone who lives
in Alabama. They have not and acres and they pain,
they pay lesson They pay like a thousand bucks and
they pay less than what I'm my first installment is
It's just like, I don't know how they expect people
(25:18):
to continue to live in these expensive states, and you know,
it's just getting hard. I mean I even heard were
the food banks the people that used to donate to
the food banks are now needing the food banks.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
They're customers of the food banks, the former donors customers. Yes,
I've read about that as well.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Can you speak about the national of the US How
did we get into such tremendous deficits.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, it's the total national debt is about thirty trillion dollars.
It's the biggest debt by far in the history of
the world. And what is the debt? Well, think about
the federal government. Every year, it spends money, and it taxes,
spends money in taxes. It's just like you. It has
an income and it has expenses, and their income is
(26:17):
not sufficient to pay all their spending. So what do
they do. They borrow And what's the national debt. It's
the sum of all that borrowing. Right now, we borrow
over one trillion dollars a year because again, what the
federal government in Washington is spending exceeds what they're bringing
in in taxes by that amount. So if you don't
(26:38):
tax it, you have to borrow it. It's that simple.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Wow, that's that that that's the mind boggling to me.
And this is my own personal opinion, Howard. But when
you know they have a government shut down right now,
what we have right now, I feel they should pay
the military before they pay the people in Washington. The congressman.
(27:06):
People may not agree with that, but I just that's
just not.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Fair to these I'll go out on a limb and
give my own personal d I don't think they should
shut the government down. The government's there for a reason exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
I was gonna say that too. Yeah, I agree with that.
It's like, how do you shut it down? And then
why why do they still get paid? You know, if
people go out on strike, sometimes they don't get paid.
So to me, this is then mine get paid, right,
(27:42):
and so then why are they getting paid?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
That's just in furiates me.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
What I think is that remember remember when we talk
about who imposes the tariffs, who's shutting down the government,
these are our employees where they're bothering, right, and so
we are we are allowing this. So it's not that
they they are doing they are doing whatever they're doing,
but they're doing it with our consent.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
And that is why we as citizens need to know
economics needs being.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Going on, and then voting to people who again it's
a boss. If a boss, you as a voter or
a boss, and if you are totally indifferent to what
your employees are doing, you're not going to get the
best employees and you're not going to get the best outcomes.
You need to you need to step up and fulfill
your role as a boss by being informed as to
(28:40):
what's going on and then exercising your authority appropriately.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, so it's being very careful in who you choose
to put an office.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Then exactly, that's what you're saying, and that is.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Really yes that we definitely have to be educated and
be aware that since I really I don't know about
cryptocurrency versus like regular money, could you give a brief
explanation of that, because that confuses made that and bitcoin
(29:17):
or is bitcoin? Is bitcoin cryptocurrency? I don't know much
about that.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, Well, there are current there's currency made up by
the United States government. There's only one of one currency.
It's called the United States dollar. We're all intimately familiar
with it. And then there are literally thousands of currencies
made up by whomever, and those are virtual currencies, and
they're just made up both currencies, the US dollar and
(29:45):
all these virtual currencies. The virtual currencies is a general
term for currencies made up by someone other than the
US government, and it appears electronically, and they're both just
made up by out of thin air. Oh, what's the
difference between the US dollar and all these other currencies. Well,
the US dollar is made up by a branch of
(30:07):
the US government. We know the people involved in making
it up. We know the rules pursuant to which they
make it up, so we have some confidence that it
has some real credibility. These other currencies, people don't even
know who came up with bitcoin at this point. So again,
US dollar and all these other currencies are just made
(30:28):
up out of thin air. It's just that the US
dollar has a long history of having value and we
know exactly who is responsible for it and under what
rules they created. The other ones, you're off to the
races from many of them. No one really knows anything.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah, that always sounded kind of.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Fee to me, like very sketching. Yeah, Bitcoin cryptocurrency, and
they have all these scammers that want you to buy
bitcoin and the cryptocurrency.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
You know there are in other countries.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
You know, if I'm going to invest or buy from anyone,
that's going to be someone who I could see in
the local office in my town, not someone overseas who
I don't know from from Adam.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
So people, they're likely to be some scammers.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, oh definitely, yeah, yeah, if you had them locally too,
that's true.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
That's why I always had to check every everyone out.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I also would like to ask you because sometimes, and
I know we talked about tariffs, but what causes inflation
and then a recession?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Okay, inflation is just average prices going up, and we
talked about that fifteen minutes ago. Causes it? I'll try
to answer this in three words again, it's the ratio
between spending and stuff. What am I talking about. There's
a certain amount of stuff that the economy turns out
(32:13):
every year. But people spend more money, They're going to
bid up the prices of things. If everyone's spending a
lot of money, the prices of stuff is going to
go up. Think about going to an auction where if
people with more money come into the room, prices are
going to get bit up, So that's what causes inflation.
If spending goes up roughly two percent a year and
(32:35):
the amount of stuff our economy turns out goes up
roughly two percent a year, prices are pretty much stable.
But it's when spending goes up more than the amount
of stuff you get inflation. You could see that during
the COVID pandemic, spending went up a bit, but what
happens is stuff people stayed home for work, so less
was produced, so the amount of spending compared to the
(32:58):
amount of things to buy really went up, and that's
when you see inflation.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Very good, Yes, I feel howard that things have gone
up a way of during COVID and they stayed up.
Eggs are coming down, but everything has just stayed up
and keep on rising.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Again. Is an average increase of prices, So eggs can
go up, butter can go down. Whatever, it's on average
that prices go up. And we've definitely been seeing prices
going up, and I think we're going to see even
more of it in the future.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
And how about when people hear about recession, we're going
to have a recession, Well, what is a recession?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
It's when our economy grows a little bit each year.
A recession is when the economy stops growing and goes
into reverse. Essentially that the amount of stuff, the amount
of output, actually goes down. And maybe we'll have one,
maybe we won't. It's very hard to predict when a
(34:16):
recession will come. But people talk about what causes a
recession or a very severe either the word for a
very severe recession depression. What causes it, and it usually
involves some major asset losing value, like in nineteen twenty nine,
stocks crashed. In two thousand and seven, housing values crashed,
(34:40):
and people become much more afraid and they spend less
and the economy starts to shrink. And no one can
tell you with certainty whether that is going to happen
or not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
I know in the nineties things are pretty tough because
out of.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Work mm hmm. We've seen downturns throughout history essentially, and
when the next one's coming, The fact is it's coming,
that's a certainty. The big question is is when and
not if?
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Uh. That is interesting. I feel like, well, when my
husband's got work in the night, early nineties, it was
like a domino effect. You know, if you lose your job,
of course you're not going to be out there spending money.
So if you're not out there spending what's usually spending.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Money all the places people you would have spent the
money if they lose their jobs and they come in
and spending, it's a vicious cycle eventially.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, exactly, that is uh, yes, that's exactly what's going
to say. And you know, of course, because you know
you're not going to have the money for the luxuries,
that's for sure. And even again talking about the things
(36:04):
going up and the tariffs, well even my beauty stuff
went away up.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
I mean a big big jump.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
And you know, like I go to the mall to
the movies with my son, you see less people really
at the mall. So that to me, this holiday season
should be really interesting to see.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
That's when most retailers really make it make their profit
for the year.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yes, yeah, it would be really interesting to see because
I've noticed, like in Oh God's Sore, like Norse from
for instance, they never used to have sales like they
do now. But people I think are really even people
who are wealthy, how I think, are watching their money.
(37:00):
They're not going to be spending you know, one hundred
bucks on pajamas. You don't have to.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
You could go somewhere cheaper. They get it cheaper. And
it's really I think people are just.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Watching and being as much as food costs now.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
You know, it's just yeah, one hundred dollars pastor.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Going into a recession because when people cut back on spending,
business is cut back on employees, which makes people cut
back on spending even more. And it's a vicious cycle.
So that may be the start of a vicious cycle.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah. Yes, how do you encourage someone like just out
of college and starting their career to save, you know,
they say you should put ten percent away to save
(37:56):
and keep saving.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
It's really hard. We've been talking quite a bit about
how much prices have gone up. Yeah, many people, price
has gone up a lot more than their incomes, so
saving it's becomes very difficult.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yes, yes, that's very true. It was like hitting me
all of a sudden because I've been out of work
all five years.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
It will be five, No, it'll be six.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Next year, and I'm thinking, you know, we were doing okay.
You know, my son lives with me, and we were
doing okay, and now it's like I needed more money
from him to help make ends meet because things have
just gone to keep going up astronomically. You know, Josh
doesn't care. But it's just that, you know, you feel
(38:48):
as a parent. I mean, me, I feel bad I
need need more money, but you know he knows the situation.
I mean, this is just the way it is in
the economy. Now, what else would you like to share
with the audience said we didn't cover that. You would
like to say, Howard, Well, I think it.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Came up inadvertently, and that is that people people, I think,
are afraid of economics. Did you ever take your course
in economics other than the book? Now? No, okay, you
never did. I went to high school in New York
City and we were required to take trigonometry, but that's
not economics, which I think is ridiculous. And the people
(39:30):
who do take economics in college, you're usually faced with
a bewildering array of jargon and graphs and formulas, and
they don't really learn much about the world. So people
have this fear of economics that has something to do
with maths or with formulas or something like that. The
fact is it has to do with values, Who gets
what and who does what in our society. There's no
(39:53):
formula it's going to tell you the tax rate on
person A should be higher or lower than person B.
It's a question what your values are, what you think
is fair. And if you just say, well, it's complicated,
I'll leave it to the politicians, you may very well
get an outcome you don't like. And so it's important
to be informed and involved. I think that was the
(40:14):
theme of our conversation. And if you're informed and involved,
they may very well get taxes and an economy that
they really don't think is right.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, so we need to be involved citizens carefully look
at the politicians, what they stand for, what their policies
are concerning you know, taxes, social Security fund that for that, Medicare,
medication point on that. Sure, it's not.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
What people say, it's what people do. So people need
to be keen on that too. There's a lot of
talk these days. People need to look at actions and
what people really do when when they're confronted with a choice.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, that's true. I remember that made me think of
well when I was younger and do it here the
adults say, oh yeah, politicians will say whatever they wanted
to get into office, and then afterwards it's a whole
different story.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Well, you know again, I'll go back to the analogy
of a boss. When you're interviewing someone for her job,
you just listen to what they say. You evaluate it
for whether you think it's honest or accurate. And that's
what voters have to do. They're the bosses. They have
to be involved, and if you're not involved, you're going
to get employees you really don't like.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Yeah, good point. Oh, I so enjoyed talking to you, Howard.
And you know, I never took a course in economics. No,
I think of it.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
When I thought of economics, I.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Know you how to be very smart and with math,
and I'm not good with math at all, so but
it wasn't offered where I went to high school, and
I didn't go to college, so I did not take economics.
And I was thrilled to receive your book and to
(42:13):
read it because you really make it very easy to understand.
That's where I know you are a great educator and
your students are really very fortunate. I can listen to
you all day, and you also have a nice voice,
a nice boys to listen to you, no, thank you.
Where can people buy your book? I know it's in
(42:38):
Barnes and Noble and.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Noble, so they could certainly go there, and they can
go to their local bookshop. It's in many local bookshops
and they if it's not there, they can ask the
local bookshop to order it. And of course, as with
all books, it's on Amazon dot com, but I urge
them to try to buy it at Barnes and Noble
or their local bookshop.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Great, and how can people connect with you? Give a website?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Oh, I have a website. Yes, it's howardrs dot com.
H O W A R D y A r U
S s all one word dot com.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Well that's easy to remember. Well, thank you so much
for spending time with me today, Howard yours, and for
writing your book. Again. Folks, the name of the book
is Understandable Economics, because understanding our economy is easier than
you think and more important than you know. And I
(43:33):
do have to agree with that, and I thank you
again for thank you writing your book and making people
aware of how important it is to know about economics
and to get involved and knowing the politicians and what
they do and what they stand for and what are
they going to do for us? As you said, we
(43:55):
are their bosses. Yes, ye, thank you so much. This
was enlightening and I'm so grateful that I do get
to talk to various people from all walks of life
and all the information and that Howard Yours will be
in the block. The Genie White Rights who's the station
(44:15):
manager and produces the show. And I want to thank
Lilane Coldwell, CEO of Passion World Talk Radio Network and.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Makes us all possible. And thank you the listeners.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Please share the show. I will help as many people
as possible. Howard Yours is there great resource. This book
is wonderful. I highly recommend it from out What age
would you say, Howard like high school, middle school?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
I think, you know, I think it would I think, yeah,
that's a good question. I would say teenager up until
one hundred for the for the next hundred years.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yes, yeah, this is very important book for high school
students because you know what they're gonna be eighteen. You
need to know who you're voting for. You need to
get involved, you need to plan.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
You know the audience I had in mind when I
was writing the book. This is an interesting thing. To
close on was my parents, neither of whom went to college.
There were smart people, but they never went to college.
In writing the book, I always thought they how would
I explain it to them? And so that was that
was what I had in mind in writing the whole book.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Well then you were I don't know all your parents were,
but and you were thinking of people like me. So
thank you. You made an understandable for someone like me,
and I appreciate that, and good luck, congratulations on this
(45:53):
book and good luck. And I was, you know, I
thrilled to say it, like I said Boards and Noble,
because I needed to you by now hundreds of authors
that I've only seen maybe four books, you know, in
the bookstore. So I always look for the people that
I interview to see if their book is in the store.
(46:14):
That's not sometimes you could order it. Sometimes that it's
not available to order, So that's good to know. But
I so enjoy talking to you. And I want to
shout out thank you to list of Warren or Listen
Worried p R who has a great clients, and I
appreciate her referring you to me, and thanks again, how
(46:37):
are yours? I enjoy talking to you folks. As I
always say, you can follow me on Facebook. Bet'sy Worzel
w R C E L. And in a world where
you could be anything, please be kind and shine your
light break because we need it now more than ever before.
This is Betsy Worzel, your host of Chatting with Betsy.
(46:58):
I'm Passion World to Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of
Global Media Network LLSA. Bye bye now
Hello everyone, This is Betsy Worthal, your host of Chatting
with Betsy A Passer World Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary
of Global Media Network LLC. Our mantras to educate, enlighten,
and entertain. The views of a guest made not represent
those of the hosts of the station. Folks, do you
(00:23):
ever wonder about economics? Do you understand economics? I know
I didn't, and I finally read a book about economics
which I thought was fantastic. And you're gonna want to
stay tuned for my show and my guests. My guest
today is Howard Euris. He is an economist, professor, attorney, businessman,
(00:47):
and the activist who has taught a variety of courses
on economics and business and currently teaches at New York University.
He is author and writer of Understandable Economics because understanding
our economy is easier than you think and more important
(01:07):
than you know. Updated edition with the new introduction Welcome,
how are yours? The Chatting with Betsy great?
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Well, I'm happy to have you here, and I have
to tell you I'm going to be sixty eight. Lord
Williams December, and this is the first book I ever
read about economics.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
The most Americans, it really does. The most Americans have
never read a book on economics, have never taken a
course on economics, and it's really unfortunate because it greatly
affects each of our lives.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Yes, and I thank you for writing this book and
making it where I can't understand it. So I think that,
in my humble opinion, Howard, that everyone should to get
your book because it's really important to know what's going on.
And since I've read the book, I like to think
(02:09):
of you when I go shopping, and I think of
the tiuffs. But let me backtrack and ask you what
motivated you to write your book?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
And I'm good, I did you know?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I think most people's interests in life start when they're young.
And I worked in my father's grocery store when I
was a teenager, and I saw some people who were
he had a soft spot for people who were like
in their seventies and didn't have enough money to make
ends meet. Their social security was inadequate, so I saw
how these people really struggled. And then I saw people
(02:47):
closer to my own age who may or may not
have finished high school, and it was clear that their
careers were going nowhere. And I thought that there's such
a big difference in our opportunity, in resources, in the
chances that people have in life in our country, and
(03:07):
I just wanted to learn more about it. I became again,
I became fascinated by this topic, like why there are
such these vast differences, and that's what led me to
study economics.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Well, I have the segment on opinion Howard. Your students
are very lucky, be very fortunate to have you as
their professor because you make, you know, just in your
book alone, you make things very easy to understand. And
I've heard you another podcast and I was like, wow,
I mean, I learned so much from listening to you
(03:42):
on other shows, and I just really appreciate you bringing
awareness to how important economics is. In honor of my dad.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Oh go ahead, No, it is a selfish component to
well well to that as well, and if you read
the book, you know what it is. I just think
that if people are uninformed, the politicians can get away
essentially with anything, and by having people more well informed
about how economics works and how it affects their lives,
(04:18):
My hope is that they would be in a position
to support better policies and in turn better politicians, and
we'd all live in a better, more productive nation. And
so that's my alterior motive for writing the book. It's
not just to inform for information's sake. It's to enable
people to be better citizens, to be more astute voters.
(04:40):
And that affects not only them, but affects all of us.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
That is very true. And I had to ask you
this question because you hear it all the time in
honor of my father, Howard worthol who is to take
this all the time?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Is social Security?
Speaker 1 (05:02):
You know they scare of and I do collect social Security.
I didn't want to collect it at sixty two, but
because COVID had happened and my place closed and my
husband had just died, that I decided, you know, it
was better for me to collect it. Actually, I went
(05:24):
before COVID, like before my husband died. I went to
fill it out and I say, you know, I really
don't want to collect it sixty two, but if I
have to leave work and take care of him, I
need some money coming in.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
And the Social Security person said, you know.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
You could take it, and then you could always rescind it.
You know, you could stop and then final again, you
know when you want to. But I had to do that,
and my father would always say, oh, social Security is
in a locked box. Then you hear people say, oh,
it's going to run out of money. And even at
(06:03):
Art I get the Art bulletin magazine and listen their
September October issue, Howard, and they're talking about that the
trust funds, the Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries canon for
financial support and health will run out of money sooner
than projected unless the lawmakers act. And then it says
(06:25):
social Security will run out of money by twenty thirty four.
That's not Doug far away. And also Medicare Part egg
will be depleted by twenty thirty three. So they have
this in the magazine. That scares me.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
I mean, that scares me and many many others.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
So is that a mess that.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Is or is it to scare I'll tell you what
it is. How Come we don't talk about whether the
Pentagon is going to go bankrupt or run out of
money exactly, talk about the Department of Agriculture going bank
up to running out of money. Social Security is a
government program. I know they allocate certain funds to it.
It's a segregated fund now through the fight attacks. But
(07:11):
it is a government program like every other program the
government has. And if Congress appropriates enough money, it'll be fine.
If Congress doesn't appropriate enough money, it won't be fine.
It's a political question, not an economic question. So that
is just those kinds of claims are just made to
scare people. Again, it's up to Congress and it depends
(07:33):
totally upon what they decide to do. Just like with
the Pentagon.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
You bring up a good point, and that's what I
find fascinating because that's always a hot topic for election year.
You know, this politician is going to cut Social Security.
This one that is not going to do it. Social
Security is going to run out of money. I mean,
I've been hearing this for years. That's what I thought
(07:59):
I would get the needed debates about it.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
And it was so.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
It was kind of comforting in a way to me
when you say, oh, it's up to you know, Congress,
they can put the way.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
Yeah, in a way, that's not because if you have
this is why it's so important for people to understand
how basically how these things work. Because it's if if
people feel like there's some objective economic reason why so
security can't be afforded or can't be paid.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
For, they can have the will pull pulled over their eyes.
They have to know. It's just like the Pentagon. If
Congress has the will to fund it, it's funded. If
it doesn't, it doesn't, and you have to make sure
you elect people to office who are dedicated to that funding.
It's that as simple as that.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's a good point.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
M h.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
It's a very good point. I really I learned something.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
We're not. We're not Argentina that is potentially defaulting on
its debt. It's a rich country. If it wants to
pay the funds it promised retirees, it certainly can. It's
a question of will and not can.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
That's a that's a really good point to make, Howard,
And I bet. I mean, I didn't know that until
I read your book, yeah, and heard you speak.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
And if I.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Didn't know that, I know there's many many others who don't,
which is why I love having a variety of guests.
And I never had an economist on before economist on,
before I had a financial you know, person on. So
I'm really grateful, and I'm so glad that.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
I did read your book.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
And you know, I didn't even know what tariffs were.
I didn't understand how that worked until I read your book.
Could you please explain what the tariffs are to the audience.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Well of the class. The best explanations are short, and
so I always try to explain things in as few
words as possible. So my goal with tariffs is three words,
how's that it's a tax on imports? Three words, it's
a tax on imports. What are tariffs? When a bottle
of French wine comes into the United States, a tax
(10:27):
is put on it in the in understandable economics, I
use the example of a twenty dollars bottle of French wine,
and then if the government imposes a thirty percent tariff
on it, again attax on imports, it's thirty percent of
twenty dollars worth six dollars extra. It's going to cost
six dollars more because the government put a six dollars
(10:50):
tax on it, a thirty percent tax. So tariffs are
simply attack on exports.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Which make our word, right, our goods that we consume
more expensive because as basically you know, everything is from overseas,
I could tell you how are that even going? Like
clothes shopping, I'm stunned. Like I've seen clothing go up
(11:18):
six seven dollars because it's made over remarkable.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
But here's the more interesting thing that people forget. And again,
the whole idea of the book is that if you
have some basic information and good comment sense, you could
figure things out. So let's talk about tariffs. So I
use the example in the book. If you remember the
twenty dollars French bottle of wine and twenty five twenty
dollars California bottle of wine. And I'm a consumer and
(11:46):
I like the French wine better, so I buy the
French wine at the same price. Once the French wine
goes to twenty six dollars, I'm much more likely to
buy the California wine because it's only twenty dollars. But
that's wearing the consumer. Hap think about the French wine
the California winery. I'm going to say, my competition's price
(12:08):
just went from twenty dollars to twenty six dollars. Hey,
I could probably get away with charging twenty four dollars
and still be more competitive. So what do tariffs. Do
they raise prices on all goods, even those produced domestically
because the domestic manufacturers have more leeway to raise their
prices because their competitors' prices went up.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
That is interesting. Yeah, it is because that just you know,
jack's up the price. I have to ask you this tower.
I mean, that might sound like a bizarre question, but
I am like when I go to my local grocery
store every week, I am sticker shocked every week that
(12:54):
I go. And I don't know how. I guess companies
can get away with this. I like Cashes my son,
and I like like Cashews. This particular brand shrunk their
packaging and raised the price, so you get your ounces
less and you pay more.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I mean, I know, yes, shrink flation inflation is increasing
the price. Shrink Inflation is shrinking the quantity you get,
which is which is a backdoor way to increasing the price.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I'm looking at it and I'm like, wait a minute.
I know I'm not hallucinating here. This is definitely smaller,
and and you know, the price got jacked up over
a dollar more, and I'm like, how do they get
away with this? And uh, Coco, they said, chocolate was
(13:59):
going to go way up. Well, it certainly has. I mean,
it is just insane. I'll just give you an example.
I used to get a box of good Die of
chocolates for holiday time. I haven't had in a long
time because I'm trying to stay away from that. And
I went over to look at a box. The same
(14:20):
box that I brought maybe four years ago was twenty
eight dollars.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Howard, it's now forty four dollars.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I'm sad that is a big jump, because are really
pushing our prices and why do we have tariffs? Well, again,
the people voted for a president who supported them. This
is the choice that the American people made.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
I'll give you another example, if you don't mind, Howard.
Last year I had a lease turn in my lease
car get another one. I was love to be able
to buy a car outright, but I can't afford the payments.
And I've had Toyota cameras for the past three cars.
I couldn't afford a camera. I got a Corolla, and
(15:16):
I don't know what I'll be driving next time. I
say I'm gonna drive a Fred flint Stone car, you know,
uly stating myself here, break in the in the talk.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Sure, okay, I will call you back in between five
and ten minutes.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Oh, then I had to re record everything I thought
you just wanted to. Yeah, I'd had to re record
the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Can we take a two minute break then.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I could two minute break? Yeah, because I could add
lib I'll just keep talking. Okay, Yeah, that's fine, Okay,
all right, Okay, everyone taking a break, and Howard yours
will be back with us. The name of the book
is Understandable Economics, because understanding our economy is easier than
(16:15):
you think and more important than you know. Of data
edition with the new introductions, and I was so happy
to know that it was seen in the Borns and
Noble store near me, and I just didn't want to
(16:37):
encourage you all to order Understandable Economics. That it's not
in your local book store, then please tell them to
order it before you. And next month is November, and
November is National Alzheimer's Month and National Caregivers Awareness Months.
(17:02):
So if you know a caregiver, please reach out to them,
show them that you care. And if you are having
any concerns about your memory at all, please consult your
primary care doctor for any concerns that you have because
(17:23):
there are clinical trials. There are different tests now that
they can do for your memory, for your brain to
be checked.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
And for you to have peace of mind.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
And I also would like to tell you all that
chatting with Betsy is free to subscribed to on Spotify, Spreaker,
Amazon Music, and you can program chatting with Betsy on Alexa.
So you just tell Alexa program chatting with Betsy. Okay, Well,
(18:01):
welcome back, Howards.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
I'm good.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
You're welcome. I'm good at a living Okay, where were
we are? So I'm dating myself about the Fred Flintstone car.
Right if anyone ever saw our bicycle. I don't know
how to ride a bike, would you believe that? So
I probably would have to learn. And just the price
(18:25):
I couldn't believe it. I mean how much they went up.
And it is because of the tariff, so you know,
it's everything all the other taxes go up. It doesn't
help me personally to be paying more with these tariffs.
(18:46):
I mean, it just made to me in my situation
the economy worse for me. And you know that's why
people are are struggling. And you're seeing people that are
retired getting out of retirement and working because.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
They need to work.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Well. The tariffs were not did not come from from
the planet Mars. They were imposed by the politicians they elected.
So maybe they should consider next time electing politicians who
would be in favor of lower taxes.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yes, yes, uh, definitely, yes.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
You know what I.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Found fascinating.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Reachie book.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
A while ago, you told a story about I forgot
which guy it was. They pay less taxes, but their
secretary pays more because there are money is tied up
into Yes, right, that was interesting.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
One of the five British people in the world, he
has a fortune of about one hundred billion dollars and
he has a secretary, and he pays a lower tax
rate than his secretary because his secretary earns her income
through wages, which are taxed at a certain percentage, and
he earns his money through investment income, which is taxed
(20:12):
at a much lower percentage on average, So that people
who make money through investment income pay lower taxes as
a percentage of their income than people who earn money
from wages. And you could guess which people rely on
more on investment income than wages. Wealthy people, the lower
down in the economic spectrum you are, the more, the
(20:36):
greater the portion of your income that comes from wages.
For most people, all of their income comes from wages.
It's only wealthy people. They get a certain percentage of
their income or a large percentage of their income through investments,
and that again is taxed at a lower, lower percentage rate.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Ah. I found that very interesting. And you know you
hear that, you know, I mean I always heard that
the rich people had their loopholes, so they don't pay as.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Much as physician to loopholes. Wow, even after the loopholes,
the percentage tax is lower. So loopholes is not loopholes.
What do loopholes do? They reduce the amount of your
taxable income. But even after applying all of those loopholes,
they're paying lower tax rates than people who earn their
(21:31):
money through wages.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
That is well, that's unfair to me. To me, that's unfair.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Well, again, this is not something that comes out of nature.
This is the decision made by the people we elected
to office. It's just it's just they write the tax code.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Can I asked you a question about that, Howard? So
when politicians talk about taxes the rich more, are they
talking about taxing those funds that they are paying a
lower tax right on.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Well, it depends because there's two ways to do it.
Just increase the percentage rates or or there are some
politicians who claim that investment income should be taxed at
the same rate as work income wages. So there are
two ways to do it. I know in New York
State where I live, the state income tax doesn't distinguish
(22:34):
between wage income and investment income that both taxed at
the same rate. It's only on the federal level, which
is the big bite, that's the big expense, that there
is a distinction between investment income and wag income and
again investment income being taxed at a much lower rate.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
That's I find that fascinating and could you address it's
mind bog Like, I know what property tax is outrageous
New York, New Jersey, the whole tri state area is
ridiculous with the property tax. And years ago when Christine
(23:13):
Whitman was governor, I heard she paid less because she
had what you would consider a form so they pay
less than property tax. And I was like, you know,
they do find their, you know, ways to get out
of paying when they could very well afford to pay.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
How does.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Property tax work?
Speaker 3 (23:40):
I mean it keeps going up all the time.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
How many text is really simple, it's the how does
the value of your home, which is an assessed value,
so there's a value to your home. They multiply it
by the tax rate, which is usually in the range
of one to three percent, and that's what you pay
each year to the local government. Property taxes are imposed
by the local government. Typically, income taxes are imposed by
(24:07):
either the federal government in Washington or the state government.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
I would love to go to a class of yours
if I could. You.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
They fund what are they fund? They fund the schools,
they fund the police, right, the fire, they fund the
local services.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, and every year, well not even every year every
because in New Jersey we get it like quarterly, like
November will be the last, and then they'll send it
up in February. So it's February and May, and then
it's August and November, and.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
It always twice a year.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
Oh well, it's it's nuts. I knew someone who lives
in Alabama. They have not and acres and they pain,
they pay lesson They pay like a thousand bucks and
they pay less than what I'm my first installment is
It's just like, I don't know how they expect people
(25:18):
to continue to live in these expensive states, and you know,
it's just getting hard. I mean I even heard were
the food banks the people that used to donate to
the food banks are now needing the food banks.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
They're customers of the food banks, the former donors customers. Yes,
I've read about that as well.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Can you speak about the national of the US How
did we get into such tremendous deficits.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Well, it's the total national debt is about thirty trillion dollars.
It's the biggest debt by far in the history of
the world. And what is the debt? Well, think about
the federal government. Every year, it spends money, and it taxes,
spends money in taxes. It's just like you. It has
an income and it has expenses, and their income is
(26:17):
not sufficient to pay all their spending. So what do
they do. They borrow And what's the national debt. It's
the sum of all that borrowing. Right now, we borrow
over one trillion dollars a year because again, what the
federal government in Washington is spending exceeds what they're bringing
in in taxes by that amount. So if you don't
(26:38):
tax it, you have to borrow it. It's that simple.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Wow, that's that that that's the mind boggling to me.
And this is my own personal opinion, Howard. But when
you know they have a government shut down right now,
what we have right now, I feel they should pay
the military before they pay the people in Washington. The congressman.
(27:06):
People may not agree with that, but I just that's
just not.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Fair to these I'll go out on a limb and
give my own personal d I don't think they should
shut the government down. The government's there for a reason exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
I was gonna say that too. Yeah, I agree with that.
It's like, how do you shut it down? And then
why why do they still get paid? You know, if
people go out on strike, sometimes they don't get paid.
So to me, this is then mine get paid, right,
(27:42):
and so then why are they getting paid?
Speaker 3 (27:45):
That's just in furiates me.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
What I think is that remember remember when we talk
about who imposes the tariffs, who's shutting down the government,
these are our employees where they're bothering, right, and so
we are we are allowing this. So it's not that
they they are doing they are doing whatever they're doing,
but they're doing it with our consent.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
And that is why we as citizens need to know
economics needs being.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
Going on, and then voting to people who again it's
a boss. If a boss, you as a voter or
a boss, and if you are totally indifferent to what
your employees are doing, you're not going to get the
best employees and you're not going to get the best outcomes.
You need to you need to step up and fulfill
your role as a boss by being informed as to
(28:40):
what's going on and then exercising your authority appropriately.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, so it's being very careful in who you choose
to put an office.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Then exactly, that's what you're saying, and that is.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
Really yes that we definitely have to be educated and
be aware that since I really I don't know about
cryptocurrency versus like regular money, could you give a brief
explanation of that, because that confuses made that and bitcoin
(29:17):
or is bitcoin? Is bitcoin cryptocurrency? I don't know much
about that.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, Well, there are current there's currency made up by
the United States government. There's only one of one currency.
It's called the United States dollar. We're all intimately familiar
with it. And then there are literally thousands of currencies
made up by whomever, and those are virtual currencies, and
they're just made up both currencies, the US dollar and
(29:45):
all these virtual currencies. The virtual currencies is a general
term for currencies made up by someone other than the
US government, and it appears electronically, and they're both just
made up by out of thin air. Oh, what's the
difference between the US dollar and all these other currencies. Well,
the US dollar is made up by a branch of
(30:07):
the US government. We know the people involved in making
it up. We know the rules pursuant to which they
make it up, so we have some confidence that it
has some real credibility. These other currencies, people don't even
know who came up with bitcoin at this point. So again,
US dollar and all these other currencies are just made
(30:28):
up out of thin air. It's just that the US
dollar has a long history of having value and we
know exactly who is responsible for it and under what
rules they created. The other ones, you're off to the
races from many of them. No one really knows anything.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah, that always sounded kind of.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Fee to me, like very sketching. Yeah, Bitcoin cryptocurrency, and
they have all these scammers that want you to buy
bitcoin and the cryptocurrency.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
You know there are in other countries.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
You know, if I'm going to invest or buy from anyone,
that's going to be someone who I could see in
the local office in my town, not someone overseas who
I don't know from from Adam.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
So people, they're likely to be some scammers.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, oh definitely, yeah, yeah, if you had them locally too,
that's true.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
That's why I always had to check every everyone out.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I also would like to ask you because sometimes, and
I know we talked about tariffs, but what causes inflation
and then a recession?
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Okay, inflation is just average prices going up, and we
talked about that fifteen minutes ago. Causes it? I'll try
to answer this in three words again, it's the ratio
between spending and stuff. What am I talking about. There's
a certain amount of stuff that the economy turns out
(32:13):
every year. But people spend more money, They're going to
bid up the prices of things. If everyone's spending a
lot of money, the prices of stuff is going to
go up. Think about going to an auction where if
people with more money come into the room, prices are
going to get bit up, So that's what causes inflation.
If spending goes up roughly two percent a year and
(32:35):
the amount of stuff our economy turns out goes up
roughly two percent a year, prices are pretty much stable.
But it's when spending goes up more than the amount
of stuff you get inflation. You could see that during
the COVID pandemic, spending went up a bit, but what
happens is stuff people stayed home for work, so less
was produced, so the amount of spending compared to the
(32:58):
amount of things to buy really went up, and that's
when you see inflation.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Very good, Yes, I feel howard that things have gone
up a way of during COVID and they stayed up.
Eggs are coming down, but everything has just stayed up
and keep on rising.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Again. Is an average increase of prices, So eggs can
go up, butter can go down. Whatever, it's on average
that prices go up. And we've definitely been seeing prices
going up, and I think we're going to see even
more of it in the future.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
And how about when people hear about recession, we're going
to have a recession, Well, what is a recession?
Speaker 2 (33:54):
It's when our economy grows a little bit each year.
A recession is when the economy stops growing and goes
into reverse. Essentially that the amount of stuff, the amount
of output, actually goes down. And maybe we'll have one,
maybe we won't. It's very hard to predict when a
(34:16):
recession will come. But people talk about what causes a
recession or a very severe either the word for a
very severe recession depression. What causes it, and it usually
involves some major asset losing value, like in nineteen twenty nine,
stocks crashed. In two thousand and seven, housing values crashed,
(34:40):
and people become much more afraid and they spend less
and the economy starts to shrink. And no one can
tell you with certainty whether that is going to happen
or not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
I know in the nineties things are pretty tough because
out of.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Work mm hmm. We've seen downturns throughout history essentially, and
when the next one's coming, The fact is it's coming,
that's a certainty. The big question is is when and
not if?
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Uh. That is interesting. I feel like, well, when my
husband's got work in the night, early nineties, it was
like a domino effect. You know, if you lose your job,
of course you're not going to be out there spending money.
So if you're not out there spending what's usually spending.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Money all the places people you would have spent the
money if they lose their jobs and they come in
and spending, it's a vicious cycle eventially.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, exactly, that is uh, yes, that's exactly what's going
to say. And you know, of course, because you know
you're not going to have the money for the luxuries,
that's for sure. And even again talking about the things
(36:04):
going up and the tariffs, well even my beauty stuff
went away up.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
I mean a big big jump.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
And you know, like I go to the mall to
the movies with my son, you see less people really
at the mall. So that to me, this holiday season
should be really interesting to see.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
That's when most retailers really make it make their profit
for the year.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yes, yeah, it would be really interesting to see because
I've noticed, like in Oh God's Sore, like Norse from
for instance, they never used to have sales like they
do now. But people I think are really even people
who are wealthy, how I think, are watching their money.
(37:00):
They're not going to be spending you know, one hundred
bucks on pajamas. You don't have to.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
You could go somewhere cheaper. They get it cheaper. And
it's really I think people are just.
Speaker 1 (37:11):
Watching and being as much as food costs now.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
You know, it's just yeah, one hundred dollars pastor.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Going into a recession because when people cut back on spending,
business is cut back on employees, which makes people cut
back on spending even more. And it's a vicious cycle.
So that may be the start of a vicious cycle.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah. Yes, how do you encourage someone like just out
of college and starting their career to save, you know,
they say you should put ten percent away to save
(37:56):
and keep saving.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
It's really hard. We've been talking quite a bit about
how much prices have gone up. Yeah, many people, price
has gone up a lot more than their incomes, so
saving it's becomes very difficult.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Yes, yes, that's very true. It was like hitting me
all of a sudden because I've been out of work
all five years.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
It will be five, No, it'll be six.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Next year, and I'm thinking, you know, we were doing okay.
You know, my son lives with me, and we were
doing okay, and now it's like I needed more money
from him to help make ends meet because things have
just gone to keep going up astronomically. You know, Josh
doesn't care. But it's just that, you know, you feel
(38:48):
as a parent. I mean, me, I feel bad I
need need more money, but you know he knows the situation.
I mean, this is just the way it is in
the economy. Now, what else would you like to share
with the audience said we didn't cover that. You would
like to say, Howard, Well, I think it.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Came up inadvertently, and that is that people people, I think,
are afraid of economics. Did you ever take your course
in economics other than the book? Now? No, okay, you
never did. I went to high school in New York
City and we were required to take trigonometry, but that's
not economics, which I think is ridiculous. And the people
(39:30):
who do take economics in college, you're usually faced with
a bewildering array of jargon and graphs and formulas, and
they don't really learn much about the world. So people
have this fear of economics that has something to do
with maths or with formulas or something like that. The
fact is it has to do with values, Who gets
what and who does what in our society. There's no
(39:53):
formula it's going to tell you the tax rate on
person A should be higher or lower than person B.
It's a question what your values are, what you think
is fair. And if you just say, well, it's complicated,
I'll leave it to the politicians, you may very well
get an outcome you don't like. And so it's important
to be informed and involved. I think that was the
(40:14):
theme of our conversation. And if you're informed and involved,
they may very well get taxes and an economy that
they really don't think is right.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, so we need to be involved citizens carefully look
at the politicians, what they stand for, what their policies
are concerning you know, taxes, social Security fund that for that, Medicare,
medication point on that. Sure, it's not.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
What people say, it's what people do. So people need
to be keen on that too. There's a lot of
talk these days. People need to look at actions and
what people really do when when they're confronted with a choice.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, that's true. I remember that made me think of
well when I was younger and do it here the
adults say, oh yeah, politicians will say whatever they wanted
to get into office, and then afterwards it's a whole
different story.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Well, you know again, I'll go back to the analogy
of a boss. When you're interviewing someone for her job,
you just listen to what they say. You evaluate it
for whether you think it's honest or accurate. And that's
what voters have to do. They're the bosses. They have
to be involved, and if you're not involved, you're going
to get employees you really don't like.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
Yeah, good point. Oh, I so enjoyed talking to you, Howard.
And you know, I never took a course in economics. No,
I think of it.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
When I thought of economics, I.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Know you how to be very smart and with math,
and I'm not good with math at all, so but
it wasn't offered where I went to high school, and
I didn't go to college, so I did not take economics.
And I was thrilled to receive your book and to
(42:13):
read it because you really make it very easy to understand.
That's where I know you are a great educator and
your students are really very fortunate. I can listen to
you all day, and you also have a nice voice,
a nice boys to listen to you, no, thank you.
Where can people buy your book? I know it's in
(42:38):
Barnes and Noble and.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Noble, so they could certainly go there, and they can
go to their local bookshop. It's in many local bookshops
and they if it's not there, they can ask the
local bookshop to order it. And of course, as with
all books, it's on Amazon dot com, but I urge
them to try to buy it at Barnes and Noble
or their local bookshop.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Great, and how can people connect with you? Give a website?
Speaker 2 (43:02):
Oh, I have a website. Yes, it's howardrs dot com.
H O W A R D y A r U
S s all one word dot com.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Well that's easy to remember. Well, thank you so much
for spending time with me today, Howard yours, and for
writing your book. Again. Folks, the name of the book
is Understandable Economics, because understanding our economy is easier than
you think and more important than you know. And I
(43:33):
do have to agree with that, and I thank you
again for thank you writing your book and making people
aware of how important it is to know about economics
and to get involved and knowing the politicians and what
they do and what they stand for and what are
they going to do for us? As you said, we
(43:55):
are their bosses. Yes, ye, thank you so much. This
was enlightening and I'm so grateful that I do get
to talk to various people from all walks of life
and all the information and that Howard Yours will be
in the block. The Genie White Rights who's the station
(44:15):
manager and produces the show. And I want to thank
Lilane Coldwell, CEO of Passion World Talk Radio Network and.
Speaker 3 (44:23):
Makes us all possible. And thank you the listeners.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Please share the show. I will help as many people
as possible. Howard Yours is there great resource. This book
is wonderful. I highly recommend it from out What age
would you say, Howard like high school, middle school?
Speaker 2 (44:45):
I think, you know, I think it would I think, yeah,
that's a good question. I would say teenager up until
one hundred for the for the next hundred years.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yes, yeah, this is very important book for high school
students because you know what they're gonna be eighteen. You
need to know who you're voting for. You need to
get involved, you need to plan.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
You know the audience I had in mind when I
was writing the book. This is an interesting thing. To
close on was my parents, neither of whom went to college.
There were smart people, but they never went to college.
In writing the book, I always thought they how would
I explain it to them? And so that was that
was what I had in mind in writing the whole book.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Well then you were I don't know all your parents were,
but and you were thinking of people like me. So
thank you. You made an understandable for someone like me,
and I appreciate that, and good luck, congratulations on this
(45:53):
book and good luck. And I was, you know, I
thrilled to say it, like I said Boards and Noble,
because I needed to you by now hundreds of authors
that I've only seen maybe four books, you know, in
the bookstore. So I always look for the people that
I interview to see if their book is in the store.
(46:14):
That's not sometimes you could order it. Sometimes that it's
not available to order, So that's good to know. But
I so enjoy talking to you. And I want to
shout out thank you to list of Warren or Listen
Worried p R who has a great clients, and I
appreciate her referring you to me, and thanks again, how
(46:37):
are yours? I enjoy talking to you folks. As I
always say, you can follow me on Facebook. Bet'sy Worzel
w R C E L. And in a world where
you could be anything, please be kind and shine your
light break because we need it now more than ever before.
This is Betsy Worzel, your host of Chatting with Betsy.
(46:58):
I'm Passion World to Talk Radio Network, a subsidiary of
Global Media Network LLSA. Bye bye now
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