August 11, 2025 • 61 mins
Original Release Date: Monday 11 August 2025
Description: This week, Dean and Phil go deeper into the life and career of the brilliant Tom Lehrer before opening the Chillpak morgue and remembering astronaut Jim Lovell, actor Alfie Wise, WKRP star Loni Anderson, wrestling superstar Hulk Hogan, heavy metal icon Ozzy Osbourne, and beloved "Cosby Show" star Malcolm-Jamar Warner, in "Celebrity Deaths". These discussions lead to several unexpected an fascinating topics. After that, Phil describes how the 1980s are alive and well in Montecito, California, sharing stories about Dennis Miller, Christopher Lloyd and Kenny Loggins in the process. Finally, two superhero films receive analysis: Superman and The Fantastic Four: First Steps.
Description: This week, Dean and Phil go deeper into the life and career of the brilliant Tom Lehrer before opening the Chillpak morgue and remembering astronaut Jim Lovell, actor Alfie Wise, WKRP star Loni Anderson, wrestling superstar Hulk Hogan, heavy metal icon Ozzy Osbourne, and beloved "Cosby Show" star Malcolm-Jamar Warner, in "Celebrity Deaths". These discussions lead to several unexpected an fascinating topics. After that, Phil describes how the 1980s are alive and well in Montecito, California, sharing stories about Dennis Miller, Christopher Lloyd and Kenny Loggins in the process. Finally, two superhero films receive analysis: Superman and The Fantastic Four: First Steps.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'd like to take you now on wings of song,
as it were, and try and help you forget, perhaps
for a while, your drab, wretched lives.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And now you're Chill Pack Hollywood Hour with Dean Haglind
and Phil Lareness.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Says, Welcome to year nineteen, episode fourteen of your chillpac
(01:06):
Hollywood Hour. It's coming at you from the historic Los
Angeles neighborhood of Los Phelis. I am Phil Lerness and
joining us via the magic of podcasting and zoom all
the way from Birmingham, Michigan. It's the MotorCity adjacent Madman.
It's TV's Dan haglinto Dian. You know, you remember when
(01:27):
August used to be like the dog days of summer,
And it felt that way. It felt a little like
the doldrums in showbiz, like we were just emptying out
the last cinematic title titles that needed release. We were
in rerun season, nothing much happening, And now I was
(01:48):
thinking about this. We've got it seems ever more interesting
movies opening and performing at the box office. We've got
nothing but more and more horrifying, deplorable news coming from
the world of television. And we've got celebrity bodies dropping
(02:08):
like flies.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Wow. Where to start?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It is just every day is an amusement park in
the planning department of your chill Pac Hollywood Hour. Let's
start where we spent a lot of time last week
dealing with the death, or rather really just regaling each
other with tales about the brilliance of Tom Lehrer in
(02:32):
the wake of his death celebrity deaths. On today's show,
people heard the opening of an evening wasted with Tom Lehrer.
I listened to a bunch of interviews he did. And
when I say a bunch, that's impossible. He didn't do
a bunch of interviews. I listened to interviews he did.
They were rare, they were few and far between, and
(02:57):
some were very interesting if the person actually one knew
his work and was as educated as he was.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And when that happened, people would compliment the literate nature
of his lyrics, right. And this became so fascinating to
me because in two thousands, when a a three CD
compilation set of every song he'd ever recorded was coming out,
(03:29):
he was obviously not a young man. I mean, he
dies at what did we say, ninety seven? So he's
into his seventies at this point, and he just lights
up like a little boy when the literate nature of
his lyrics are described. Because what he expressed and when
(03:49):
he says it, you have no doubt that this is
absolutely the truth. He wanted to write lyrics that people
would enjoy way listening to hearing the worst yes again
and again and again, rather than writing enjoyable jokes.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Ah, make it lyrical. Make your jokes lyrical well.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
And sacrifice sometimes the laugh. And we've talked about other
comedy influences we have and people we admire that do
this right, sacrifice the laugh in the case of right
Gary Shandling, right in order the real. Always make it
more and more and more real. And if you get there,
(04:39):
you'll find the laugh. But the way you might sacrifice
laughs and he would do it because he might say, yeah,
but these this turn of phrase, this reference, this literary
way with the language that rewards being well read, will
not stand up as something that people want to listen
(05:01):
to again and again and again and again. It just
becomes a killer joke. But as we've talked about before,
those have a way of aging. Once you're beyond a
generation or.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Two right right. I have all those historic joke books
right there. Some of them are almost unintelligible because you go,
I'm not following the setup or the punchline. Here.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Occasionally, very rarely, like when I would research old Bob
Hope monologues or things like that, I would find a
joke and I would say, Oh, this is a wonderfully
written joke, and all I have to do is changed
the setting, the context, the punchline, but the writing, the structure,
(05:44):
and even the turns of phrase that get me there.
This is a nice piece. Let's pull this out of
the time capsule and use this.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Right, we update it, update your jokes.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So we never did much of a bio of mister Lehr,
who was not only a single songwriter, he was an
academic prodigy. He began undergraduate studies in mathematics at Harvard
at the age of fifteen, Wow earned his first master's
degree at nineteen. His doctoral studies languished, however, as he
(06:21):
began to focus on a career in music. His self
produced first album, Songs by Tom Larr in nineteen fifty three,
became a cult hit, first around the Harvard campus and
then more slowly. I would imagine again at campuses, but
then broadly the United States. Accompanying himself on piano, Lererer
(06:41):
sang songs that paired cheerful melodies with his darkly witty lyrics,
and they absolutely delighted nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties audiences.
Over the course of several records, his subjects ranged from cannibalism.
I hold your hand in mine was the name of
that song STDs, I got it from Agnes that's right, sadism,
(07:09):
poisoning pigeons in the park, all right, masochism right, the
masochism tango. The military industrial complex was a favorite target.
I enjoyed Werner von Brown And in this two thousand
interview he had to explain who Verner von Brown was
(07:29):
too listeners, And this was on the BBC. You know,
an English populous who of all people ought to have
known who Werner von Brown was, since he was the
chief architect of the bombings of London right before becoming
an okay Nazi when he came here to lead our
(07:53):
space program. Petry, Yeah, rocketry, he knew, as the song goes,
his main claim was that he knew how to count
from ten to one in many languages anyway. Lerier's line
Learror's line was well. Verner von Brown was a man
(08:14):
who lived by the philosophy if you aim for the stars,
at least you'll hit London anyway. Through the fifties and sixties,
after you know, releasing these albums and playing some tours,
he began contributing songs to TVs that was the week,
(08:34):
that was right. His songs for the NBC show often
took on the timely topics of the day, such as
race relations in the Cold War. In the early seventies,
he turned his back on musical fame, although he did
contribute songs to PBS shows as well, you know, like
(08:54):
Electric Company. But he joined the mathematics department faculty of
the University of California, Santa Cruz in nineteen seventy two
taught at that institution until his retirement in two thousand
and one. As I mentioned, I got to meet him
because he was teaching a musical comedy theater there as well,
and we spoke to his enduring appeal. There was a
(09:18):
successful stage review of his songs called Tom Foolery, which
premiered in London in nineteen eighty and then in New
York in nineteen eighty one. It was produced without his input,
except that he was then brought in as a consultant
during the show's run.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's like, look, we did
this thing without you and without your permission, but because
we paid just for the rights to the music. But
we realized we could maybe be creatively helped if you
were involved, If.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
You don't mind, after you know, we ran with your.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Music anyway of his own music, Dean, I had to
share this with you, Larrer said, If after hearing my songs,
just one human being is inspired to say something nasty
to a friend, or perhaps to strike a loved one,
it will all have been worth the while. Jim Lovell Dan,
(10:24):
a NASA astronaut who flew four historic missions, including the
near disastrous Apollo thirteen, died August seventh in Lake Forest, Illinois.
Over the course of his four missions, he became one
of the great symbols of the US space program when
it was at its nineteen sixties height. And you know,
(10:44):
he was the first person who flew to the Moon twice,
though he never got to walk on its surface or
even land. There. Something that was supposed to take place
on that thirteenth A Paulo mission. He was the first
to fly in space four times, and for a time
he held the record of the most sunrises seen from
space two hundred and sixty nine. I think when we
(11:06):
did a show, our T Hanks Giving Show, where we
you know, talked about some of our favorite Hank's performances,
I would be surprised if that wasn't my favorite Hank's
performance actually, because I really I that movie continually excites
me and continually moves me, and Hanks just anchors that.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, I think, how hard to do that just sitting
in a cramp seat for day after day, shot after shot,
and you just you're in the tiny little capsule forever
and you are having an arc, you are going through
a major life crisis.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
You know, some great actors, or should I say they
were great actors, but great stars mastered the task in
different contexts that I think what you're describing requires, which
is embodying a character and doing so with that high
(12:13):
energy you have to have as an actor, even when
your character is low energy, right, so that though you
might not be moving, every corpuscle of your being is alive,
and it's alive specifically with the the moral makeup of
(12:34):
the character you're playing. And so I'm thinking Tom Hanks
in that movie. He gives us something to watch even
when they're all locked in there, and something to follow
and something to believe in. How about Steve McQueen when
he's locked up in isolation in Great Escape?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, or the other one with the Dustin Hoffmann.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And I was thinking William Holden in Stalog seventeen. There
is a movie where it's he's not completely locked in
and confined, but there's a long scene where he is
motionless on his bed. And I have never seen an
actor more alive or coiled than William Holden in that movie.
(13:19):
And you wonder, like, Okay, these guys all three really
really big box office draws. Yes, great actors, but probably
even bigger stars. And is that ability not at the
core of what made them a star?
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Right? The electric wattage? As you heard of a guy
who just can carry the eyeballs on screen, no doing nothing.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Alfie Wise was an actor who died July twenty second
at a hospital in West Palm Beach, Florida. Died of
natural causes at the age of eighty two, was a
close friend of Burt Reynolds. They appeared together in movies
and TV shows like Smoking in the Band at the
Cannonball Run. B L. Striker also many memorable roles in
such TV shows as Trauma Center and Boy, did I
(14:07):
not go down a little bit of a YouTube rabbit
hole on that one watching some Trauma Center?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Did you know?
Speaker 3 (14:13):
And Mary Hartman Mary Hartman for crying out loud? Oh yeah,
he was a US Navy veteran who served in the
nineteen sixties. And speaking of people who were close to
Burt Reynolds, Okay, Actress Lonnie Anderson August third in Los
(14:33):
Angeles died of an acute prolonged illness at the age
of seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Okay, what was the illness? Did they say it was?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
It was very adorable, it was it was a cute illness.
Is that not? What that?
Speaker 1 (14:48):
That's not the medical term. Note.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
She was a beloved TV star, best known for her
Emmy nominated performance as the smart and sophisticated receptionist Jennifer
Marlowe on the hit sitcom WKRP in Cincinnati. We talk
about w KRP from time to time. Holds up yeah,
does it hold. Yeah, it really does, really does. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, it's actually more enjoyable now for some reason.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Interesting, I know. Anderson is also known by many people
over the last decades for her high profile marriage to
and divorce from Burt Reynolds, with whom she starred in
the unforgettable movie Stroker Ace Unforgettable stroke RaSE. Probably if
(15:34):
you were one of the like three or four people
who saw it, I bet yeah, you would remember it
till your dying day. Maybe I didn't need to spend
so much time watching Strokeer Raise. The Los Angeles Times
pretty much summed up all I want to say about
Lonnie Anderson's tabloid relationship with Burt Reynolds, referring to it
(15:55):
as quote the ugly divorce that just wouldn't end.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Well. It certainly did sell some ink, I guess as
the term used. I mean, that was also the height
of tabloid and you know, all of that stuff, so
that you had more and more people going, what's going on?
And yeah, it seemed it seemed challenging to go through
(16:24):
something like that, seems so personal and you want to
keep it private, and yet it was splashed on the
pages every.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Day, and did people want to keep it private. I
mean I always had this interesting like formula I should
have consulted Tom Lehrer about, like trying to work it out,
because I felt that a lot of the celebrities that
were covered in the tabloids were ones whose celebrity status
was being maintained by being covered, right. But at the
(16:55):
same time, I was wondering, is there any way to
calculate how less likely any kind of meaningful work from
them is ever going to become because they've become such
tabloid fodder.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Right right, Yeah, that's hard to gauge for sure. But
I know when Burt Reynolds did an episode the X Files,
he came in and said, Hi, I used to be famous,
Like that was the first thing, and everybody knew who
he was, but it was still his own self esteem
had gone through the ringer, probably through that divorce, and
(17:30):
you know, now that he was off the pages and
the divorce was long over, he didn't think it was
famous anymore.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
You know, he gets an Oscar nomination. This is probably
rude Leonie and Anderson that we're talking about Burt Reynolds now
and all this, but he but you speak to something
very interesting because he gets an Oscar nomination and what
should have been a big, big comeback for Boogiey Knights,
but he doesn't win the Oscar, even though a lot
of people think he's going to. And the more I
(17:58):
read about it, it's because the truth is, not only
was he an a hole most of the time, but
he was an a hole on that set. I mean,
he was terrible to Paul Thomas Anderson. He didn't want
to do the movie. He let everybody know he didn't
want to be there, and so it was really really difficult.
I mean along the lines of like Gene Hackman with
(18:18):
Wes Anderson for Royal Tenenbombs, you know, and so that
really clearly hurt him, I think in terms of getting
to win an Oscar. But you know, from what you described,
not at all that. In another one of his real
late career crowning achievements, which is that guest starring turn
(18:41):
on The X Files, it's delightful and he's every bit
the charming star that you always wanted him to be
in that, and from what you described that was true
behind the camera as well.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Yeah, I guess had a therapy session. Maybe I don't
know that made it learn humility.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Long complicated life, you know, in terms of his relationship
to painkillers and prescription drugs, here was a guy who,
long before it was fashionable, was doing a lot of
stunts he never should have, probably and that led to injury.
And that, you know, again doesn't let you off the hook.
(19:28):
There's no excuse for bad behavior. But Lonnie Anderson, to
tie it back to her in her memoir did in
a rather classy way, say, you know it, the worst
of what I experienced, and a lot of the terrible
she experienced were public recriminations towards her. But a lot
of the things were, she thinks, a product of him
(19:52):
not being himself, being in constant pain, and the way
that the drugs were affecting him. And so, yeah, i'd
have been a situation where they both deserved better. Uh,
I'm probably gonna get am I pronouncing this correctly? Terry Bouley?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Uh huh? That sounds right.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Huge icon of the nineteen eighties and of the Mega movement,
Terry Boley.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
I know it. I have no idea who that is.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
You do not realize that that's the real name of
hul Cogan.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Ah. I did not realize why Dane.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Is he not a wrestling superstar and pop culture icon
who helped start the modern wrestling boom? Are you telling
me he's he's not these things?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
He's not these things, These are not the things.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
He died July twenty fourth of cardiac arrest in Clearwater, Florida,
at the age of seventy one. His rise to fame
in the eighties did more than simply make him the
top star of the World Wrestling Federation now known as
the WWE. It really did kind of make him what
was seen at the time as an all American icon
(21:05):
who came to represent what we're seen as American values.
I think he didn't he have like a song? Was there,
like true real American or something he had like some
popular music video, even starred in movies. He would later
experience ups and downs as a public figure once his
out his life outside the wrestling ring began to draw
(21:29):
more attention than his persona as a popular entertainer, But
for a time he genuinely was seen as a role
model for millions, and it's interesting that it kind of
happened again before his death thanks to his friendship with
our current president and spokesperson. Status for the MAGA movement
(21:52):
because in People magazine in twenty nineteen, he said this,
you get to a certain place in life where you have,
I don't know what you'd call it, a come to
Jesus moment where you finally get it what this is
all about. You realize how you treat people, and that
helping and serving people are more important than anything that
(22:14):
you could possibly be doing. And that's why he helped
Trump get elected. What, yeah, that seems what year was
that interview twenty nineteen?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, wow, that's weird. But he also seemed to me
very His persona was a much different than because we
shared it. We had the same dermatologists for a while,
so i'd see him in the office.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
You also had kind of the same hairstyle for a while.
I have the long locks, the long flowing ones.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
I didn't grow the giant the doughnut duster though, so
I'm pretty proud of that. But yeah, no, he.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Was there's no stopping you.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well, I get started today, the h But yeah, he
had that over the huge energy. But then when he
was just in that office, it was like, oh, oh,
he's kind of not he's tiny, He's like just another guy,
sort of thing with long hair.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah, I mean I don't I don't want to, you know,
cast dispersions and get in trouble. But you know, there
were there were supplements being used to bulk people up right,
and not just wrestlers, but it became big in baseball
and you know, other sports obviously, but really just in entertainment.
(23:39):
You know, we've talked before about action stars. I saw
a photo of Sylvester Stallone directing John Travolta on the
set of Staying Alive.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Staying Alive, Yeah, the Bad Broadway musical.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, big hit. I mean forget like this was hated
at the time it came out, just you know, murdered
by critics, but it was a big hit. It was
one of the top ten films of the year, not
just in the US, but globally. It was a big,
big hit. And it'd be fascinating to do a discussion
about this movie sometimes in terms of movie star power
(24:18):
and why things happen the way that they do. But
Stallone was brought on and rewrote the script and directed
it because Travolta had seen Rocky three and he goes,
what we need is the kind of energy that that
film has, and they said, well, why don't we just
get Stallone to direct it. But anyway, so it's a
(24:39):
photo of them. And the reason I bring this up is, God,
Stallone's in great shape. He looks so good. But he
also seemed like really really healthy, and indeed, he told Travolta, yeah,
I'll do this, but one of the requirements is you
need to spend four months training so that you actually
have the physique. If you want to play someone who's
aspiring to be a Broadway dancer, better go and get
(25:01):
their physique. And if nothing else, that's an honorable requirement
to make the movie star do since it was his
desire that this film be set in the world of
Broadway auditions and Broadway musicals. But in this photo of
them on the set, by God, does John travolt A
(25:22):
dwarfs st alone. It's not just his height he is,
of course, he's like Muscley and looks like just peak
physical shape. But he's a very thin, lean guy, right,
not the guy of the last several decades, of course,
(25:45):
but also by the end of the decade when he
would be playing an action star and you think of
him as being so big.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's the thing. I mean, as
you said, that's where science was starting to catch up
with how we build our muscles, what you could do,
I mean, bodybuilding was at its height too to watch
it on TV. And that's also you know, not that
I know that Hulk did this, but there are ways
(26:13):
of destroying your body fat by drinking lawn weed killer
and injecting suntan lotion under your muscles so the push
up right against your skin. And you know, I had
a litany of things.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
That now I understand how, oh, you know, how you
can kill COVID, you can spray bleach. Is that what
we were supposed to be doing, right according to certain
presidential press conferences? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, because this guy was doing in documentary on bodybuilding
and he was so grossed up by all of that
that he stopped the documentary. And when he told me
the things they'll do to win, it was just like, oh,
and when did we begin learning that technology? Well, that
was right around that time.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Ozzy Osbourne, the off shocking heavy metal icon who set
the template for heavy metal music as the founding frontman
for Black Sabbath, died July twenty second, at the age
of seventy six. I was kind of shocked that he
was only seventy six. Yeah in it. I mean, I
didn't I don't want to make it. I don't want
(27:21):
this to be disparaging. But it's not like he looked
that different than he had for a long time, right,
So he was someone to me like who was both
kind of without age and always sort of looked like
the Reaper was just a step away.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah. Yeah, I guess when you saw his reality show
that became a big hit, then you realize, wow, he is,
you know, getting feeble even in that reality series. Then
you go, yeesh uh. But you know, he did not
really take care of himself in his youth, So there's
(28:00):
that that, you.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Well, and a what a tough you know, childhood he had.
I mean he grew up in you know, working class
household in Birmingham, England, not in Birmingham, Michigan, in the
even more hard scrabble Birmingham. He gets inspired because he
hears the Beatles in nineteen sixty three as a kid
(28:24):
and wants to become a musician. If you've never seen
the footage of him meeting Paul McCartney for the first
time just a few years ago, it is. It's a
rather interesting thing to see Ozzy Osbourne very much be
the little kid who was hearing the Beatles for the
first time again as an old man meeting McCartney. Yeah,
(28:47):
and McCartney's very gracious and as you would expect. But
he formed the band rare Breed, which was kind of
an interesting band with a bassist, a Geezer Butler in
nineteen sixty seven. The pair then linked up with guitarist
Tony Eomi and drummer Bill Ward to form a band
briefly called Earth. After realizing another band had the same name,
(29:12):
they changed it to something more fitting for the dark
music they had started pioneering Black Sabbath. And Yeah, there's
kind of no underestimating the influence musically. I mean there
is a degree to which, isn't it Like the Osbornes
almost casts a shadow over what an influential musician he
really was.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, kind of because for a lot of people that's
their first introduction by that time to Black Sabbath music
was like seeing his disaster's family life.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Well, yeah, because all music scene had sort of taken
over by certainly the nineties, right, and so his place
and the kind of music that he helped popularize and
even pioneer. It was definitely it was definitely on the Wayne.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, and Spinal Tap had come out already at that point,
so it was already you know, tropes to be marked
by that time of you know, large set pieces, and
I'm due to Prince of Darkness. There's no bubbles, There's
no bubbles. I'm the Prince of fucking.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Dark Despite that, despite the fact that maybe he even
became more famous to more people because of that show,
which honestly is a path, I feel like Snoop Dogg
has sort of taken right, Like that guy has become
far more famous than his music alone was ever going
(30:38):
to make him. He is a national treasure. He's a
household name, and many of those households have never played
Us Uncle one of his records. Anyway. Osborne never stopped
making music. He reunited with Black Sabbath in twenty thirteen
for the album thirteen, and continued to release solo albums
thirteen in all of twenty twenty two. Through all those projects,
(31:04):
he sold over one hundred million records. It was inducted
into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as a
star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame and received the
Ivorn Novello Award for Lifetime Achievement from the British Academy
of Songwriter, Writers, Composers and Authors. He got many awards,
(31:24):
but that's one of the most prestigious, the Ivor Novello.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Oh wow, I had no idea that I'm.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Still banking on getting one of those somedays.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Jeez, okay, I'll nominate you can I do that.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Actor Malcolm Jamal Warner died July twentieth in Lamone, Costa, Rica.
Died by drowning. Yeah, one of my least favorite phrases
is died by drowning. I must say at the age
of fifty four. He was a teenager when he became
a beloved TV star playing Theo Huxtable on The Cosby
(31:58):
Show Whatever Happened to Bill Cosby. He is also being
remembered by a lot of people for his career after
that as well, because he never stopped working. He was
not just a child actor who flamed out. I mean
his sitcom Malcolm and Eddie was a long running, big success,
(32:22):
The Resident Sons of Anarchy. That was a very popular.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Show, and realized he was in that, so it was.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Sad to a lot of people, and I took a
little bit of a bigger picture, which was the deaths
of Malcolm, Jamal Warner, Ozzy Osbourne, and hul Cogan all
in close proximity. Sure made it a tough couple weeks
for the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Well, you know, I get that's gonna happen for every
decade as we go forward.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
But all I've got to tell you there is a
place where, if like me, you want the eighties to
be young and eternal, spend time in Montecito. The eighties
are alive and well. During our last week long stay there,
we went to lunch at Trey Loon, one of my
(33:17):
favorite restaurants. There's a Trey Loon in Hollywood. It would
never be the same. It's so much more fun to
have this kind of Tuscan cuisine, this a multi coast martini,
and then be able to emerge into the Mediterranean like
climb of the American Riviera there near Santa Barbara. But
(33:37):
when entering, who should be exiting and coming up to
me and saying, de Lilly, my, he's so dapper. But
former Weekend Update star and host of his own HBO
Late Night live show on Friday nights. Dennis Miller, Hey.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Dennis Miller came up to you and said you're dapper?
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah, and I think and I and he did not
know that I used to work for him, So it was, Uh,
it was really pleasing and would have been more so
before he became a trumper. So you win some, you
lose some. Uh, Christopher Lloyd, Doc Brown Brug from Star
(34:29):
Trek three, and of course Reverend jim My God, seriously,
how many iconic things did that guy do in the
nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I own right.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Saw him at the Coral Casino, and you know he
once owned the property where we stay.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, I heard that. And did he come up to
you and say you're so dapper?
Speaker 3 (34:51):
No, we we keep national treasure status. We allow them
their their their distance. He was he was doing so
laps of the pool. I shouldn't do I tell he
was doing some laps of the pool, not in the pool,
he was, he was walking the circumference. Yeah, but and
(35:12):
and he got I was keeping attention because there were
some times where he was having trouble, like navigating the
board and things. So anyway, I was paying attention. But
so that was lovely delightful to see the brilliant Christopher
Lloyd the eighties alive and well in Montecito. And if
that weren't enough, you know, deaths happened in three right,
(35:32):
nineteen eighty deaths Malcolm Jamal Warner, Ozzy Osborne Hogan, all
three eighties icons, dine, I must be getting a third
eighties sighting some moment soon at the Nugget, my favorite
bar with great, great food. It's a fun, rustic bar
with brilliant food. And Mike Stewart says to me, don't
(35:56):
look over your shoulder, but right there someone very very good.
So I decided to take a selfie at that moment
with a little bit too much frame available on the side,
so that it's me, uh and Kenny Logins. We had
(36:16):
entered the danger zone.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Kenny Loggins, I wouldn't know what he looked.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Like, paid me. It was a good pull by Mike Stewart,
and we had a little bit to drink. Okay, So
we pull up the car outside again, windows rolled down
blaring Kenny rogen Loggins hits, so that when he comes out,
like we can say, Kenny, I'm all right from Kenny Shack.
(36:47):
We haven't on our stereo. But then maybe because we
were drunken, maybe because we're not like the hugest fans.
We then started just veering into other eighties movie themes,
so like he might have come out at some point
to hear Glenn Fries the heat is on from Beverly
Hill's cob And if he had come out, then we
would have gone listen. I mean, oh, you're Kenny Loggins.
(37:13):
Oh damn it, we have that on tape, Michael Cimbello's
Maniac Listen. I want to hop in and listen to
other people's music. How do we pivot from that back
(37:41):
to the world of the box office? Let me let
me ask you, because you were asking me have you
seen Superman?
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah? No, I haven't. I wasn't going to. As as
our friend John said, he nearly walked out of that thing.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
First movie he's ever wanted a walk out of. Yeah, Superman,
which was the first time I wanted to see it.
When he said that, because I'm fascinated.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
By walking out of movies.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Well, but also like the first time, really, the first
time you've ever wanted to walk out? I know this? Wow?
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Eh?
Speaker 3 (38:19):
And he was not born when staying in life came out,
so that actually intrigued me, like, yeah, yeah, this, but
I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
And then I was listening to some podcasts and they said, oh,
this is great. And then a friend here, Mattie Giles,
he said, oh, I loved it. It's fantastic. So then
I'm like, well, how can that because even my brother
in law hated it. He said it was the only
thing good was the dog, which apparently is an all
digital dog. And so I'm like, okay, could a digital
(38:53):
dog carry a Superman movie?
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Do we love that? We live in a time though,
when there is a news Superman movie where the director
gets people so angry because he points out it's an
immigrant story as if, and then everybody goes off about
like why does he have to make a political movie?
Why does every movie have to be woke and all this?
(39:18):
And it was like, you do realize Superman's an alien, right?
He comes from another This was always the mythology, right,
It always was the story of an immigrant to this planet.
Gosh darn it. And this is going on at the
same time that former Superman Dean Kane becomes an Ice officer.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Honorary.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
There's no honor in being an ice officer. That's bullshit.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I did not hear that story.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Why how It's just so strange and we're arguing over
the politics of a superhero movie. Somebody is a public
figure that some people care about because he played a superhero.
Like it all shows that utterly we're hopeless culturally and
(40:11):
as as a people. And that is to me, I
guess really, why, Like, if it's really good, I don't care.
I've had really good Superman.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Movies right in the past.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Again, this was a movie that the advertising led with
like nothing you've ever seen before. I called bullshit on
that immediately. I guarantee you it's at least a little
bit like other Superman movies.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, to a degree.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
But John's reaction to it right as a filmmaker is
what suddenly made me interested. Yes, so big screen probably not,
but I I I probably will watch it.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Airplane the air black back of Airplane.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Oh, that would be a good way to do it. Yeah,
probably if whenever I can travel again. Yeah, we'll do
We'll do that. Not really, you know, I had to.
We had to cancel all our traveling. Oh yeah, uh
all right, Well, then the other one I want to
ask you about because I know what you did see,
but uh, you championed a movie from a few years
(41:25):
ago that truth be told. I couldn't watch all the
way through, not in a John Lawler terrible yeah, I
gotta walk out sort of sense, but just because the
dark and I love dark stuff, as you know, and
I love dark comedy, but the dark place it went
and where it was going, I just knew, Okay, I'm done,
(41:48):
I'm done. I admire it enough, I'm I'm I'm shutting
it off and going home was Barbarian from Zach Gregor.
Oh Ye, de Troy based horror film justin long as
a me tooed figure, a horror film that had a
(42:09):
bit of a Tarantino esque kind of pulp fiction narrative
Jigsaw to it that gets revealed well into the movie
kind of surprises you by oh oh yeah yeah. So
Zach Gregor's follow up apparently does that to an even
greater degree, and it's the number one film at the
(42:31):
box office, huge, huge hit, and my god, for a
horror film, just like the kind of unprecedented reviews you'll
dream about. And that's a weapons. Oh right, So I'm
guessing you did not see that.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
I did not see that, and that I would.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Think that if you were to see any film on
an opening weekend, it might be this, given how much
you championed that director's previous work.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
I agree. I didn't even realize he was directing that.
I've been not reading the trades, as they say. But yeah,
in fact, I don't even think I seen the trailer
for this thing. I saw it up in the Marquee.
Give me, give me some broad outline, some strokes.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
I'll simply say that the premise is a whole lot
of school children in a town are disappearing, and they
all are part of the same class at the same school.
Oh okay, and that's the and that's the premise. And
(43:39):
I saw the trailer and I went, yes, I am there,
and and Lil said, there is no way I'm going
to see this, and we saw it. We're with someone
yesterday who loves both Barbarian and this movie, and kind
of like trying to suss out is it as scary
as Barbarian was, because that might be problematic for Lil.
(44:04):
He says, it's plenty scary, probably doesn't have ultimately as
much of a fear factors as Barbarian, but in terms
of darkness maybe, but said that the third act is
you really come away from it going wow, that was fun.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
So yeah, well now I'm in more than uh but fun.
Like you know, the the Chuck E Cheese horror movie
where all the Chuck E Cheese robots come to life.
That wasn't That wasn't fun.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I No, I mean I think if you're going to horror,
if you're going to a horror film and you're coming
away going that was fun, then it means that you
were one surprised by some third act development. And I
don't It's not that I'm meaning cag I literally don't
know what this is, but you were. You were surprised
(45:09):
by some third act development. But it was a surprise
that in retrospect made perfect sense. It had to make
perfect sense to you, right, like the Somerset mom line,
we find something beautiful because it surprises us and because
we recognize it. If you don't recognize it, then it's
(45:30):
just alien to you. So it has to be recognizable
and constantly surprising to be beautiful. And I always thought
that that was a pretty pretty good advice for storytellers
to keep in mind. Right, And because we got a
lot of creative people that can surprise you. But if
the surprise isn't inherent to the material that when you
(45:54):
go back and look at it right, then then it's
then it's then you don't come away going that was fun.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Right right? The Bruce Willis thing.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
Oh my god, you just pulled it right out of
my mind. Sixth sense. Yes, okay, I'd been asking questions
thinking they were weaknesses in the film, and they were
the hints of what was going on. But we could
name no shortage of m Night Shyamalan movies with the
(46:26):
surprises that we don't say, oh, what a fun what
a fun twist?
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Right right?
Speaker 3 (46:33):
No, we we want to we want to find that
guy's contact information and say, learn new party tricks. O.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Hey, I mean even Robot Chicken goes what a dist
like when they mock him, like any type, he does
a move that's something crazy happens, what a twist?
Speaker 3 (46:51):
So anyway, so you must let me know how weapons
is when you see it.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Okay, very good, It's on my list.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
And let's conclude with the big box office. Is it
a big box office success? I don't know if it
has been. It opened very well, but a lot of
these movies, even as Marvel kind of steadies itself, these
movies are really front loaded to a degree that when
(47:20):
Marvel was reaching its peak, those movies had multiples that
played out over weeks in a way that even some
of these supposedly improved like Thunderbolts titles don't seem to achieve.
So we're talking about fantastic four first steps, right.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yes we are. And I went it specifically before the car.
I love that car they designed, and that was it
and I saw the car and you know, Okay, so
you set this thing in a past retro future scenario,
and you do it because you can devolve away from
(48:03):
any political muck that you might get involved in. And
so by doing that and creating this kind of fun
universe where people still have manners and wear hats and
stuff like that, you you take out some of the
other elements. But really it's a story about their kid.
(48:26):
So your whole plot line is about the kid Franklin,
and is the genetic thing. And it seems that the
kid who's your spoiler alert can resurrect life. There you go,
that's the that's the movie future. So Gigantis is coming
for this kid. It's like, okay, so what's the Fantastic four.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Do Gigantis is coming for the kid? Why?
Speaker 1 (48:52):
I forget that plot point, but basically they believe. Yeah,
at that point, you're like, ah, this is.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Because Gigantic to me is Kevin Faig, the guy that
runs Marvel, and he will quickly grab up any young
person who is shown or believed to have the power.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
To resurrect, resurrect.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Dead dead life. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Oh my god. Well, and I would say I would like,
could we have cut this movie down to say twenty
minutes and then jump to the kid being an adult
superhero now whatever his power is, and Gigantis and like,
you know, super villain's coming for him from around the multiverse.
(49:41):
Can we do that? Probably not, because there's no comic
book that ever followed that through and as far as
I never read Fantastic for that much, but I don't
remember ever the pregnancy storyline being a big, big throughput
on any of that stuff. So so yeah, I found
(50:01):
it problematic. But they did everything right right. They had
four writers on this thing, and they had scrubbed this
and rewrote it and re seen by scene everything had
thought put into it to get this out into the
public at a time when it's you know, culturally, where
(50:23):
are we? And so this is this is trying to
reorient itself in a set of an existence that doesn't exist.
And you're like, okay, I'm with you, and so you know,
in that way, it's all right. But when you go, oh,
love are the plot points again? Like you know they
(50:45):
it's just been what am I looking for? The term
is bleached, it's been taken within an inch of its life,
and just every scene crafted to the best of the
movie industry's ability at this time and place.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
You mentioned the car, like, I do appreciate the design
of what I've seen, and I'm really pleased by that
kind of design, that kind of retro futurism, right, and
I and I love that it's even on the posters
like it's it's it's been. This is an opening coherent
(51:27):
across all the different pieces of the film and promoting
it is it you know, it's like my appeal would
be going to see it as if I'm going to
like a Disneyland attraction of the World of Tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Yeah, exactly, It's almost like that.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
And so there are those joys in it, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
But they are they few and far between, or are
they leaning on that so much that you have to
then go, well, why didn't you put this in a
different context?
Speaker 3 (52:08):
But well, so here's the question for you, right, like
would there be other stories in the world they created
for this movie? Would there be other stories that would
(52:29):
be interesting to tell? Or only a story about the
Fantastic Four?
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Well, I suppose if you do an every time I
see a past retro future, I also think everybody embracing
atomic energy, right, this brand new of scary energy. How
is it done? Hydrogen, molecular splitting, all of that sort
of thing, And you go, okay, is there a story there?
(53:01):
But then you go back to Oppenheimer, right, like what
have we done? And so you see you can't reverse that,
so you know, to have that in context to other
movies that have come already and explained away, or or.
Speaker 3 (53:18):
Because I've always loved wright supporting players and supporting performers,
because they're the ones that let me believe in the
world that I'm watching. I'll follow the leads because I
find them attractive or entertaining or compelling or scary or
whatever it is. And of course it's their story. But
(53:39):
I only believe the world they're in if I believe
what's around them, right, And you know, the problem going
back to all of the Daniel Craigbond films was that
when Casino Royal comes out, it's not just that he's good,
(53:59):
it's that they they depicted a world for Bond to
explore that seemed really exciting, right, full of stories, and
then with each successive movie that world got smaller and
smaller and less interesting, until he himself was no longer
really that interesting. And so you know, like, is there
(54:24):
in this world they've created for Fantastic Four? Is there
a romantic comedy going on? Is there a police procedural
we could have seen instead? Is there like, is this
a world that they've invented full of stories or is
it just a world that was created for these four
(54:47):
characters story?
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Yes, because it seems like it was a choice to
dial back from having the Fantastic Four because the previous
versions were all in present day America right then, none
of them had any sort of thing and so the
fighting that was going on these buildings we're here and
now all of that sort of thing. So this way
(55:11):
of dialing it back from her present reality, it didn't
seem like it was the idea to explore this new world.
Speaker 3 (55:18):
One of the things that doesn't get I think enough
of the blame for the ultimate just over you know,
I don't know, well, there was oversaturation of the Marvel product,
but just of the fatigue. It was something that doesn't
(55:39):
get enough of the blame for the fatigue. Is a
really tough problem to avoid, which is that Marvel movies
were based on stories that were set largely in the
world as we know it, right, but they all involved
huge threats and huge upheaval, and the more that happens,
(56:01):
the more the world on screen is not the world
we're in because it has to be changed to reflect
how a world would change in the wake of these events.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
Right.
Speaker 3 (56:16):
To me, the real educational example is Independence Day and
decades later the next Independence Day and really revealing all
other issues aside with it. It really strikes home. You
(56:37):
make a movie like Independence Day, you cannot make a sequel.
You cannot do it. And the reason is because what
was so delightful was you dropped a b picture storyline
in the world as we know it. But from that
point on, now you now have to do all that
(56:58):
heavy lifting of world building when the world was already
built in the first one, right, But now it's an
alternate reality and you've got to build out all of it.
And the longer the years go on, the more you
have to build out. Here is how things changed after it.
I in fact would say if look the money, and
I would deny no one a paycheck. But if it's
(57:20):
life changing money and you want to go and do
it again, then you should do it. What my advice
would be, maybe you embrace the idea of multi versus
and the concept that there is a theory that, yes,
(57:43):
certain events can change a timeline, but the further you
get away from that event, the more the stream will
come back together. If you think of time like a
stream and you throw a big giant object in the
middle of it, of course the stream disperses, but you
(58:03):
know what it does. Eventually it seeks itself again and
it comes back together, so that if you go further on, yeah,
you may have changed the ripples of history for a while,
but it isn't the butterfly effect actually, where you know
you you took one step off the path and you
(58:26):
come back to your timeline and the Nazis are running
everything oh wait, that did happen. Okay, but it But
it is more or less the idea that the inexorable
forward movement of time is going to reclaim itself, right, uh,
(58:46):
just for a while? Is it going to be disrupted?
And so I would say as storytellers, embrace that idea.
Embrace as much as possible, get back to the world
as it is, even to the point of almost absurdism,
because that could lead to pleasant, funny moments as opposed
to what so often happens. You took things that were
(59:07):
pleasing because of how light and funny they were, but
because you had to address the impacts of all these
changes dude to violence and destruction. Man, it doesn't stay
light very long. Hell, and now you're serving double heavy weights,
(59:29):
the heavy weight of how do we keep this going
and the heavy weight of addressing the awful things that
happened the time before. But if you said to yourself, light,
life and time will reclaim itself, you know, then you
can do what they did in Trials and Tribulations on
(59:50):
Deep Space nine where they go back and visit the
Tribles episode from the classic Star Trek and you know,
Colmeni's chief o Brien is saying, who are those people?
And you know the answer is there Klingons And they
look to wharf and they go, those are Klingons because
they don't look anything like him. And his answer is
it's a long story. That's it, right, that's it. But
(01:00:15):
by god, did later iterations of Star Trek really feel
the need to heavily explain those.
Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Changes, all that changes? Yeah? Yeah, And I suspect that
that per chances maybe the problem with Superman. But I
don't know if you can give it up for the
changes and just go, Okay, we've just cleaned the slate.
I put my forearm on the table, and now we're
starting again, or versus wait a sec. You know, I
(01:00:44):
suspect that that might be the polarity going on in
that thing.
Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
And I would also take a page out of the
old television pilot book, you know, from TV shows for people.
If you're starting over again, that's doesn't mean you have
to do an origin story. And what I understand is
Superman isn't an origin story. I don't know, I haven't
seen it, but that's the right thing. Just started again.
(01:01:10):
We don't need to see Batman's parents die again. We
never need to see this, right, like, and so just
tell a story and let it be a new start
and let the person exist. And that's what TV shows
did so well, right, And it was the classic dramatic
(01:01:31):
idea of in media ray you begin in the middle
of the.
Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Story, right.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Belated spoiler alert
I'd like to take you now on wings of song,
as it were, and try and help you forget, perhaps
for a while, your drab, wretched lives.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And now you're Chill Pack Hollywood Hour with Dean Haglind
and Phil Lareness.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Says, Welcome to year nineteen, episode fourteen of your chillpac
(01:06):
Hollywood Hour. It's coming at you from the historic Los
Angeles neighborhood of Los Phelis. I am Phil Lerness and
joining us via the magic of podcasting and zoom all
the way from Birmingham, Michigan. It's the MotorCity adjacent Madman.
It's TV's Dan haglinto Dian. You know, you remember when
(01:27):
August used to be like the dog days of summer,
And it felt that way. It felt a little like
the doldrums in showbiz, like we were just emptying out
the last cinematic title titles that needed release. We were
in rerun season, nothing much happening, And now I was
(01:48):
thinking about this. We've got it seems ever more interesting
movies opening and performing at the box office. We've got
nothing but more and more horrifying, deplorable news coming from
the world of television. And we've got celebrity bodies dropping
(02:08):
like flies.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Wow. Where to start?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It is just every day is an amusement park in
the planning department of your chill Pac Hollywood Hour. Let's
start where we spent a lot of time last week
dealing with the death, or rather really just regaling each
other with tales about the brilliance of Tom Lehrer in
(02:32):
the wake of his death celebrity deaths. On today's show,
people heard the opening of an evening wasted with Tom Lehrer.
I listened to a bunch of interviews he did. And
when I say a bunch, that's impossible. He didn't do
a bunch of interviews. I listened to interviews he did.
They were rare, they were few and far between, and
(02:57):
some were very interesting if the person actually one knew
his work and was as educated as he was.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Ah.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
And when that happened, people would compliment the literate nature
of his lyrics, right. And this became so fascinating to
me because in two thousands, when a a three CD
compilation set of every song he'd ever recorded was coming out,
(03:29):
he was obviously not a young man. I mean, he
dies at what did we say, ninety seven? So he's
into his seventies at this point, and he just lights
up like a little boy when the literate nature of
his lyrics are described. Because what he expressed and when
(03:49):
he says it, you have no doubt that this is
absolutely the truth. He wanted to write lyrics that people
would enjoy way listening to hearing the worst yes again
and again and again, rather than writing enjoyable jokes.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Ah, make it lyrical. Make your jokes lyrical well.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
And sacrifice sometimes the laugh. And we've talked about other
comedy influences we have and people we admire that do
this right, sacrifice the laugh in the case of right
Gary Shandling, right in order the real. Always make it
more and more and more real. And if you get there,
(04:39):
you'll find the laugh. But the way you might sacrifice
laughs and he would do it because he might say, yeah,
but these this turn of phrase, this reference, this literary
way with the language that rewards being well read, will
not stand up as something that people want to listen
(05:01):
to again and again and again and again. It just
becomes a killer joke. But as we've talked about before,
those have a way of aging. Once you're beyond a
generation or.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Two right right. I have all those historic joke books
right there. Some of them are almost unintelligible because you go,
I'm not following the setup or the punchline. Here.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Occasionally, very rarely, like when I would research old Bob
Hope monologues or things like that, I would find a
joke and I would say, Oh, this is a wonderfully
written joke, and all I have to do is changed
the setting, the context, the punchline, but the writing, the structure,
(05:44):
and even the turns of phrase that get me there.
This is a nice piece. Let's pull this out of
the time capsule and use this.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Right, we update it, update your jokes.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
So we never did much of a bio of mister Lehr,
who was not only a single songwriter, he was an
academic prodigy. He began undergraduate studies in mathematics at Harvard
at the age of fifteen, Wow earned his first master's
degree at nineteen. His doctoral studies languished, however, as he
(06:21):
began to focus on a career in music. His self
produced first album, Songs by Tom Larr in nineteen fifty three,
became a cult hit, first around the Harvard campus and
then more slowly. I would imagine again at campuses, but
then broadly the United States. Accompanying himself on piano, Lererer
(06:41):
sang songs that paired cheerful melodies with his darkly witty lyrics,
and they absolutely delighted nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties audiences.
Over the course of several records, his subjects ranged from cannibalism.
I hold your hand in mine was the name of
that song STDs, I got it from Agnes that's right, sadism,
(07:09):
poisoning pigeons in the park, all right, masochism right, the
masochism tango. The military industrial complex was a favorite target.
I enjoyed Werner von Brown And in this two thousand
interview he had to explain who Verner von Brown was
(07:29):
too listeners, And this was on the BBC. You know,
an English populous who of all people ought to have
known who Werner von Brown was, since he was the
chief architect of the bombings of London right before becoming
an okay Nazi when he came here to lead our
(07:53):
space program. Petry, Yeah, rocketry, he knew, as the song goes,
his main claim was that he knew how to count
from ten to one in many languages anyway. Lerier's line
Learror's line was well. Verner von Brown was a man
(08:14):
who lived by the philosophy if you aim for the stars,
at least you'll hit London anyway. Through the fifties and sixties,
after you know, releasing these albums and playing some tours,
he began contributing songs to TVs that was the week,
(08:34):
that was right. His songs for the NBC show often
took on the timely topics of the day, such as
race relations in the Cold War. In the early seventies,
he turned his back on musical fame, although he did
contribute songs to PBS shows as well, you know, like
(08:54):
Electric Company. But he joined the mathematics department faculty of
the University of California, Santa Cruz in nineteen seventy two
taught at that institution until his retirement in two thousand
and one. As I mentioned, I got to meet him
because he was teaching a musical comedy theater there as well,
and we spoke to his enduring appeal. There was a
(09:18):
successful stage review of his songs called Tom Foolery, which
premiered in London in nineteen eighty and then in New
York in nineteen eighty one. It was produced without his input,
except that he was then brought in as a consultant
during the show's run.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
Wow, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's like, look, we did
this thing without you and without your permission, but because
we paid just for the rights to the music. But
we realized we could maybe be creatively helped if you
were involved, If.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
You don't mind, after you know, we ran with your.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Music anyway of his own music, Dean, I had to
share this with you, Larrer said, If after hearing my songs,
just one human being is inspired to say something nasty
to a friend, or perhaps to strike a loved one,
it will all have been worth the while. Jim Lovell Dan,
(10:24):
a NASA astronaut who flew four historic missions, including the
near disastrous Apollo thirteen, died August seventh in Lake Forest, Illinois.
Over the course of his four missions, he became one
of the great symbols of the US space program when
it was at its nineteen sixties height. And you know,
(10:44):
he was the first person who flew to the Moon twice,
though he never got to walk on its surface or
even land. There. Something that was supposed to take place
on that thirteenth A Paulo mission. He was the first
to fly in space four times, and for a time
he held the record of the most sunrises seen from
space two hundred and sixty nine. I think when we
(11:06):
did a show, our T Hanks Giving Show, where we
you know, talked about some of our favorite Hank's performances,
I would be surprised if that wasn't my favorite Hank's
performance actually, because I really I that movie continually excites
me and continually moves me, and Hanks just anchors that.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, I think, how hard to do that just sitting
in a cramp seat for day after day, shot after shot,
and you just you're in the tiny little capsule forever
and you are having an arc, you are going through
a major life crisis.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
You know, some great actors, or should I say they
were great actors, but great stars mastered the task in
different contexts that I think what you're describing requires, which
is embodying a character and doing so with that high
(12:13):
energy you have to have as an actor, even when
your character is low energy, right, so that though you
might not be moving, every corpuscle of your being is alive,
and it's alive specifically with the the moral makeup of
(12:34):
the character you're playing. And so I'm thinking Tom Hanks
in that movie. He gives us something to watch even
when they're all locked in there, and something to follow
and something to believe in. How about Steve McQueen when
he's locked up in isolation in Great Escape?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah, or the other one with the Dustin Hoffmann.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And I was thinking William Holden in Stalog seventeen. There
is a movie where it's he's not completely locked in
and confined, but there's a long scene where he is
motionless on his bed. And I have never seen an
actor more alive or coiled than William Holden in that movie.
(13:19):
And you wonder, like, Okay, these guys all three really
really big box office draws. Yes, great actors, but probably
even bigger stars. And is that ability not at the
core of what made them a star?
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Right? The electric wattage? As you heard of a guy
who just can carry the eyeballs on screen, no doing nothing.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Alfie Wise was an actor who died July twenty second
at a hospital in West Palm Beach, Florida. Died of
natural causes at the age of eighty two, was a
close friend of Burt Reynolds. They appeared together in movies
and TV shows like Smoking in the Band at the
Cannonball Run. B L. Striker also many memorable roles in
such TV shows as Trauma Center and Boy, did I
(14:07):
not go down a little bit of a YouTube rabbit
hole on that one watching some Trauma Center?
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Did you know?
Speaker 3 (14:13):
And Mary Hartman Mary Hartman for crying out loud? Oh yeah,
he was a US Navy veteran who served in the
nineteen sixties. And speaking of people who were close to
Burt Reynolds, Okay, Actress Lonnie Anderson August third in Los
(14:33):
Angeles died of an acute prolonged illness at the age
of seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Okay, what was the illness? Did they say it was?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
It was very adorable, it was it was a cute illness.
Is that not? What that?
Speaker 1 (14:48):
That's not the medical term. Note.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
She was a beloved TV star, best known for her
Emmy nominated performance as the smart and sophisticated receptionist Jennifer
Marlowe on the hit sitcom WKRP in Cincinnati. We talk
about w KRP from time to time. Holds up yeah,
does it hold. Yeah, it really does, really does. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, it's actually more enjoyable now for some reason.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Interesting, I know. Anderson is also known by many people
over the last decades for her high profile marriage to
and divorce from Burt Reynolds, with whom she starred in
the unforgettable movie Stroker Ace Unforgettable stroke RaSE. Probably if
(15:34):
you were one of the like three or four people
who saw it, I bet yeah, you would remember it
till your dying day. Maybe I didn't need to spend
so much time watching Strokeer Raise. The Los Angeles Times
pretty much summed up all I want to say about
Lonnie Anderson's tabloid relationship with Burt Reynolds, referring to it
(15:55):
as quote the ugly divorce that just wouldn't end.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Well. It certainly did sell some ink, I guess as
the term used. I mean, that was also the height
of tabloid and you know, all of that stuff, so
that you had more and more people going, what's going on?
And yeah, it seemed it seemed challenging to go through
(16:24):
something like that, seems so personal and you want to
keep it private, and yet it was splashed on the
pages every.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Day, and did people want to keep it private. I
mean I always had this interesting like formula I should
have consulted Tom Lehrer about, like trying to work it out,
because I felt that a lot of the celebrities that
were covered in the tabloids were ones whose celebrity status
was being maintained by being covered, right. But at the
(16:55):
same time, I was wondering, is there any way to
calculate how less likely any kind of meaningful work from
them is ever going to become because they've become such
tabloid fodder.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
Right right, Yeah, that's hard to gauge for sure. But
I know when Burt Reynolds did an episode the X Files,
he came in and said, Hi, I used to be famous,
Like that was the first thing, and everybody knew who
he was, but it was still his own self esteem
had gone through the ringer, probably through that divorce, and
(17:30):
you know, now that he was off the pages and
the divorce was long over, he didn't think it was
famous anymore.
Speaker 3 (17:36):
You know, he gets an Oscar nomination. This is probably
rude Leonie and Anderson that we're talking about Burt Reynolds now
and all this, but he but you speak to something
very interesting because he gets an Oscar nomination and what
should have been a big, big comeback for Boogiey Knights,
but he doesn't win the Oscar, even though a lot
of people think he's going to. And the more I
(17:58):
read about it, it's because the truth is, not only
was he an a hole most of the time, but
he was an a hole on that set. I mean,
he was terrible to Paul Thomas Anderson. He didn't want
to do the movie. He let everybody know he didn't
want to be there, and so it was really really difficult.
I mean along the lines of like Gene Hackman with
(18:18):
Wes Anderson for Royal Tenenbombs, you know, and so that
really clearly hurt him, I think in terms of getting
to win an Oscar. But you know, from what you described,
not at all that. In another one of his real
late career crowning achievements, which is that guest starring turn
(18:41):
on The X Files, it's delightful and he's every bit
the charming star that you always wanted him to be
in that, and from what you described that was true
behind the camera as well.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Yeah, I guess had a therapy session. Maybe I don't
know that made it learn humility.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Long complicated life, you know, in terms of his relationship
to painkillers and prescription drugs, here was a guy who,
long before it was fashionable, was doing a lot of
stunts he never should have, probably and that led to injury.
And that, you know, again doesn't let you off the hook.
(19:28):
There's no excuse for bad behavior. But Lonnie Anderson, to
tie it back to her in her memoir did in
a rather classy way, say, you know it, the worst
of what I experienced, and a lot of the terrible
she experienced were public recriminations towards her. But a lot
of the things were, she thinks, a product of him
(19:52):
not being himself, being in constant pain, and the way
that the drugs were affecting him. And so, yeah, i'd
have been a situation where they both deserved better. Uh,
I'm probably gonna get am I pronouncing this correctly? Terry Bouley?
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Uh huh? That sounds right.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Huge icon of the nineteen eighties and of the Mega movement,
Terry Boley.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
I know it. I have no idea who that is.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
You do not realize that that's the real name of
hul Cogan.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Ah. I did not realize why Dane.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Is he not a wrestling superstar and pop culture icon
who helped start the modern wrestling boom? Are you telling
me he's he's not these things?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
He's not these things, These are not the things.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
He died July twenty fourth of cardiac arrest in Clearwater, Florida,
at the age of seventy one. His rise to fame
in the eighties did more than simply make him the
top star of the World Wrestling Federation now known as
the WWE. It really did kind of make him what
was seen at the time as an all American icon
(21:05):
who came to represent what we're seen as American values.
I think he didn't he have like a song? Was there,
like true real American or something he had like some
popular music video, even starred in movies. He would later
experience ups and downs as a public figure once his
out his life outside the wrestling ring began to draw
(21:29):
more attention than his persona as a popular entertainer, But
for a time he genuinely was seen as a role
model for millions, and it's interesting that it kind of
happened again before his death thanks to his friendship with
our current president and spokesperson. Status for the MAGA movement
(21:52):
because in People magazine in twenty nineteen, he said this,
you get to a certain place in life where you have,
I don't know what you'd call it, a come to
Jesus moment where you finally get it what this is
all about. You realize how you treat people, and that
helping and serving people are more important than anything that
(22:14):
you could possibly be doing. And that's why he helped
Trump get elected. What, yeah, that seems what year was
that interview twenty nineteen?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, wow, that's weird. But he also seemed to me
very His persona was a much different than because we
shared it. We had the same dermatologists for a while,
so i'd see him in the office.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
You also had kind of the same hairstyle for a while.
I have the long locks, the long flowing ones.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
I didn't grow the giant the doughnut duster though, so
I'm pretty proud of that. But yeah, no, he.
Speaker 3 (22:52):
Was there's no stopping you.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Well, I get started today, the h But yeah, he
had that over the huge energy. But then when he
was just in that office, it was like, oh, oh,
he's kind of not he's tiny, He's like just another guy,
sort of thing with long hair.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
Yeah, I mean I don't I don't want to, you know,
cast dispersions and get in trouble. But you know, there
were there were supplements being used to bulk people up right,
and not just wrestlers, but it became big in baseball
and you know, other sports obviously, but really just in entertainment.
(23:39):
You know, we've talked before about action stars. I saw
a photo of Sylvester Stallone directing John Travolta on the
set of Staying Alive.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Staying Alive, Yeah, the Bad Broadway musical.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, big hit. I mean forget like this was hated
at the time it came out, just you know, murdered
by critics, but it was a big hit. It was
one of the top ten films of the year, not
just in the US, but globally. It was a big,
big hit. And it'd be fascinating to do a discussion
about this movie sometimes in terms of movie star power
(24:18):
and why things happen the way that they do. But
Stallone was brought on and rewrote the script and directed
it because Travolta had seen Rocky three and he goes,
what we need is the kind of energy that that
film has, and they said, well, why don't we just
get Stallone to direct it. But anyway, so it's a
(24:39):
photo of them. And the reason I bring this up is, God,
Stallone's in great shape. He looks so good. But he
also seemed like really really healthy, and indeed, he told Travolta, yeah,
I'll do this, but one of the requirements is you
need to spend four months training so that you actually
have the physique. If you want to play someone who's
aspiring to be a Broadway dancer, better go and get
(25:01):
their physique. And if nothing else, that's an honorable requirement
to make the movie star do since it was his
desire that this film be set in the world of
Broadway auditions and Broadway musicals. But in this photo of
them on the set, by God, does John travolt A
(25:22):
dwarfs st alone. It's not just his height he is,
of course, he's like Muscley and looks like just peak
physical shape. But he's a very thin, lean guy, right,
not the guy of the last several decades, of course,
(25:45):
but also by the end of the decade when he
would be playing an action star and you think of
him as being so big.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's the thing. I mean, as
you said, that's where science was starting to catch up
with how we build our muscles, what you could do,
I mean, bodybuilding was at its height too to watch
it on TV. And that's also you know, not that
I know that Hulk did this, but there are ways
(26:13):
of destroying your body fat by drinking lawn weed killer
and injecting suntan lotion under your muscles so the push
up right against your skin. And you know, I had
a litany of things.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
That now I understand how, oh, you know, how you
can kill COVID, you can spray bleach. Is that what
we were supposed to be doing, right according to certain
presidential press conferences? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, because this guy was doing in documentary on bodybuilding
and he was so grossed up by all of that
that he stopped the documentary. And when he told me
the things they'll do to win, it was just like, oh,
and when did we begin learning that technology? Well, that
was right around that time.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Ozzy Osbourne, the off shocking heavy metal icon who set
the template for heavy metal music as the founding frontman
for Black Sabbath, died July twenty second, at the age
of seventy six. I was kind of shocked that he
was only seventy six. Yeah in it. I mean, I
didn't I don't want to make it. I don't want
(27:21):
this to be disparaging. But it's not like he looked
that different than he had for a long time, right,
So he was someone to me like who was both
kind of without age and always sort of looked like
the Reaper was just a step away.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Yeah. Yeah, I guess when you saw his reality show
that became a big hit, then you realize, wow, he is,
you know, getting feeble even in that reality series. Then
you go, yeesh uh. But you know, he did not
really take care of himself in his youth, So there's
(28:00):
that that, you.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Well, and a what a tough you know, childhood he had.
I mean he grew up in you know, working class
household in Birmingham, England, not in Birmingham, Michigan, in the
even more hard scrabble Birmingham. He gets inspired because he
hears the Beatles in nineteen sixty three as a kid
(28:24):
and wants to become a musician. If you've never seen
the footage of him meeting Paul McCartney for the first
time just a few years ago, it is. It's a
rather interesting thing to see Ozzy Osbourne very much be
the little kid who was hearing the Beatles for the
first time again as an old man meeting McCartney. Yeah,
(28:47):
and McCartney's very gracious and as you would expect. But
he formed the band rare Breed, which was kind of
an interesting band with a bassist, a Geezer Butler in
nineteen sixty seven. The pair then linked up with guitarist
Tony Eomi and drummer Bill Ward to form a band
briefly called Earth. After realizing another band had the same name,
(29:12):
they changed it to something more fitting for the dark
music they had started pioneering Black Sabbath. And Yeah, there's
kind of no underestimating the influence musically. I mean there
is a degree to which, isn't it Like the Osbornes
almost casts a shadow over what an influential musician he
really was.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, kind of because for a lot of people that's
their first introduction by that time to Black Sabbath music
was like seeing his disaster's family life.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Well, yeah, because all music scene had sort of taken
over by certainly the nineties, right, and so his place
and the kind of music that he helped popularize and
even pioneer. It was definitely it was definitely on the Wayne.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, and Spinal Tap had come out already at that point,
so it was already you know, tropes to be marked
by that time of you know, large set pieces, and
I'm due to Prince of Darkness. There's no bubbles, There's
no bubbles. I'm the Prince of fucking.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
Dark Despite that, despite the fact that maybe he even
became more famous to more people because of that show,
which honestly is a path, I feel like Snoop Dogg
has sort of taken right, Like that guy has become
far more famous than his music alone was ever going
(30:38):
to make him. He is a national treasure. He's a
household name, and many of those households have never played
Us Uncle one of his records. Anyway. Osborne never stopped
making music. He reunited with Black Sabbath in twenty thirteen
for the album thirteen, and continued to release solo albums
thirteen in all of twenty twenty two. Through all those projects,
(31:04):
he sold over one hundred million records. It was inducted
into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as a
star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame and received the
Ivorn Novello Award for Lifetime Achievement from the British Academy
of Songwriter, Writers, Composers and Authors. He got many awards,
(31:24):
but that's one of the most prestigious, the Ivor Novello.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Oh wow, I had no idea that I'm.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
Still banking on getting one of those somedays.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Jeez, okay, I'll nominate you can I do that.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Actor Malcolm Jamal Warner died July twentieth in Lamone, Costa, Rica.
Died by drowning. Yeah, one of my least favorite phrases
is died by drowning. I must say at the age
of fifty four. He was a teenager when he became
a beloved TV star playing Theo Huxtable on The Cosby
(31:58):
Show Whatever Happened to Bill Cosby. He is also being
remembered by a lot of people for his career after
that as well, because he never stopped working. He was
not just a child actor who flamed out. I mean
his sitcom Malcolm and Eddie was a long running, big success,
(32:22):
The Resident Sons of Anarchy. That was a very popular.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Show, and realized he was in that, so it was.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Sad to a lot of people, and I took a
little bit of a bigger picture, which was the deaths
of Malcolm, Jamal Warner, Ozzy Osbourne, and hul Cogan all
in close proximity. Sure made it a tough couple weeks
for the nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Well, you know, I get that's gonna happen for every
decade as we go forward.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
But all I've got to tell you there is a
place where, if like me, you want the eighties to
be young and eternal, spend time in Montecito. The eighties
are alive and well. During our last week long stay there,
we went to lunch at Trey Loon, one of my
(33:17):
favorite restaurants. There's a Trey Loon in Hollywood. It would
never be the same. It's so much more fun to
have this kind of Tuscan cuisine, this a multi coast martini,
and then be able to emerge into the Mediterranean like
climb of the American Riviera there near Santa Barbara. But
(33:37):
when entering, who should be exiting and coming up to
me and saying, de Lilly, my, he's so dapper. But
former Weekend Update star and host of his own HBO
Late Night live show on Friday nights. Dennis Miller, Hey.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Dennis Miller came up to you and said you're dapper?
Speaker 3 (34:03):
Yeah, and I think and I and he did not
know that I used to work for him, So it was, Uh,
it was really pleasing and would have been more so
before he became a trumper. So you win some, you
lose some. Uh, Christopher Lloyd, Doc Brown Brug from Star
(34:29):
Trek three, and of course Reverend jim My God, seriously,
how many iconic things did that guy do in the
nineteen eighties.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
I own right.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Saw him at the Coral Casino, and you know he
once owned the property where we stay.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Yeah, I heard that. And did he come up to
you and say you're so dapper?
Speaker 3 (34:51):
No, we we keep national treasure status. We allow them
their their their distance. He was he was doing so
laps of the pool. I shouldn't do I tell he
was doing some laps of the pool, not in the pool,
he was, he was walking the circumference. Yeah, but and
(35:12):
and he got I was keeping attention because there were
some times where he was having trouble, like navigating the
board and things. So anyway, I was paying attention. But
so that was lovely delightful to see the brilliant Christopher
Lloyd the eighties alive and well in Montecito. And if
that weren't enough, you know, deaths happened in three right,
(35:32):
nineteen eighty deaths Malcolm Jamal Warner, Ozzy Osborne Hogan, all
three eighties icons, dine, I must be getting a third
eighties sighting some moment soon at the Nugget, my favorite
bar with great, great food. It's a fun, rustic bar
with brilliant food. And Mike Stewart says to me, don't
(35:56):
look over your shoulder, but right there someone very very good.
So I decided to take a selfie at that moment
with a little bit too much frame available on the side,
so that it's me, uh and Kenny Logins. We had
(36:16):
entered the danger zone.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Kenny Loggins, I wouldn't know what he looked.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Like, paid me. It was a good pull by Mike Stewart,
and we had a little bit to drink. Okay, So
we pull up the car outside again, windows rolled down
blaring Kenny rogen Loggins hits, so that when he comes out,
like we can say, Kenny, I'm all right from Kenny Shack.
(36:47):
We haven't on our stereo. But then maybe because we
were drunken, maybe because we're not like the hugest fans.
We then started just veering into other eighties movie themes,
so like he might have come out at some point
to hear Glenn Fries the heat is on from Beverly
Hill's cob And if he had come out, then we
would have gone listen. I mean, oh, you're Kenny Loggins.
(37:13):
Oh damn it, we have that on tape, Michael Cimbello's
Maniac Listen. I want to hop in and listen to
other people's music. How do we pivot from that back
(37:41):
to the world of the box office? Let me let
me ask you, because you were asking me have you
seen Superman?
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah? No, I haven't. I wasn't going to. As as
our friend John said, he nearly walked out of that thing.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
First movie he's ever wanted a walk out of. Yeah, Superman,
which was the first time I wanted to see it.
When he said that, because I'm fascinated.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
By walking out of movies.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
Well, but also like the first time, really, the first
time you've ever wanted to walk out? I know this? Wow?
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Eh?
Speaker 3 (38:19):
And he was not born when staying in life came out,
so that actually intrigued me, like, yeah, yeah, this, but
I haven't seen it.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
And then I was listening to some podcasts and they said, oh,
this is great. And then a friend here, Mattie Giles,
he said, oh, I loved it. It's fantastic. So then
I'm like, well, how can that because even my brother
in law hated it. He said it was the only
thing good was the dog, which apparently is an all
digital dog. And so I'm like, okay, could a digital
(38:53):
dog carry a Superman movie?
Speaker 3 (38:56):
Do we love that? We live in a time though,
when there is a news Superman movie where the director
gets people so angry because he points out it's an
immigrant story as if, and then everybody goes off about
like why does he have to make a political movie?
Why does every movie have to be woke and all this?
(39:18):
And it was like, you do realize Superman's an alien, right?
He comes from another This was always the mythology, right,
It always was the story of an immigrant to this planet.
Gosh darn it. And this is going on at the
same time that former Superman Dean Kane becomes an Ice officer.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Honorary.
Speaker 3 (39:43):
There's no honor in being an ice officer. That's bullshit.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
I did not hear that story.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
Why how It's just so strange and we're arguing over
the politics of a superhero movie. Somebody is a public
figure that some people care about because he played a superhero.
Like it all shows that utterly we're hopeless culturally and
(40:11):
as as a people. And that is to me, I
guess really, why, Like, if it's really good, I don't care.
I've had really good Superman.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Movies right in the past.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
Again, this was a movie that the advertising led with
like nothing you've ever seen before. I called bullshit on
that immediately. I guarantee you it's at least a little
bit like other Superman movies.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
Yeah, to a degree.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
But John's reaction to it right as a filmmaker is
what suddenly made me interested. Yes, so big screen probably not,
but I I I probably will watch it.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Airplane the air black back of Airplane.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Oh, that would be a good way to do it. Yeah,
probably if whenever I can travel again. Yeah, we'll do
We'll do that. Not really, you know, I had to.
We had to cancel all our traveling. Oh yeah, uh
all right, Well, then the other one I want to
ask you about because I know what you did see,
but uh, you championed a movie from a few years
(41:25):
ago that truth be told. I couldn't watch all the
way through, not in a John Lawler terrible yeah, I
gotta walk out sort of sense, but just because the
dark and I love dark stuff, as you know, and
I love dark comedy, but the dark place it went
and where it was going, I just knew, Okay, I'm done,
(41:48):
I'm done. I admire it enough, I'm I'm I'm shutting
it off and going home was Barbarian from Zach Gregor.
Oh Ye, de Troy based horror film justin long as
a me tooed figure, a horror film that had a
(42:09):
bit of a Tarantino esque kind of pulp fiction narrative
Jigsaw to it that gets revealed well into the movie
kind of surprises you by oh oh yeah yeah. So
Zach Gregor's follow up apparently does that to an even
greater degree, and it's the number one film at the
(42:31):
box office, huge, huge hit, and my god, for a
horror film, just like the kind of unprecedented reviews you'll
dream about. And that's a weapons. Oh right, So I'm
guessing you did not see that.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
I did not see that, and that I would.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Think that if you were to see any film on
an opening weekend, it might be this, given how much
you championed that director's previous work.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
I agree. I didn't even realize he was directing that.
I've been not reading the trades, as they say. But yeah,
in fact, I don't even think I seen the trailer
for this thing. I saw it up in the Marquee.
Give me, give me some broad outline, some strokes.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
I'll simply say that the premise is a whole lot
of school children in a town are disappearing, and they
all are part of the same class at the same school.
Oh okay, and that's the and that's the premise. And
(43:39):
I saw the trailer and I went, yes, I am there,
and and Lil said, there is no way I'm going
to see this, and we saw it. We're with someone
yesterday who loves both Barbarian and this movie, and kind
of like trying to suss out is it as scary
as Barbarian was, because that might be problematic for Lil.
(44:04):
He says, it's plenty scary, probably doesn't have ultimately as
much of a fear factors as Barbarian, but in terms
of darkness maybe, but said that the third act is
you really come away from it going wow, that was fun.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
So yeah, well now I'm in more than uh but fun.
Like you know, the the Chuck E Cheese horror movie
where all the Chuck E Cheese robots come to life.
That wasn't That wasn't fun.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I No, I mean I think if you're going to horror,
if you're going to a horror film and you're coming
away going that was fun, then it means that you
were one surprised by some third act development. And I
don't It's not that I'm meaning cag I literally don't
know what this is, but you were. You were surprised
(45:09):
by some third act development. But it was a surprise
that in retrospect made perfect sense. It had to make
perfect sense to you, right, like the Somerset mom line,
we find something beautiful because it surprises us and because
we recognize it. If you don't recognize it, then it's
(45:30):
just alien to you. So it has to be recognizable
and constantly surprising to be beautiful. And I always thought
that that was a pretty pretty good advice for storytellers
to keep in mind. Right, And because we got a
lot of creative people that can surprise you. But if
the surprise isn't inherent to the material that when you
(45:54):
go back and look at it right, then then it's
then it's then you don't come away going that was fun.
Speaker 1 (46:01):
Right right? The Bruce Willis thing.
Speaker 3 (46:05):
Oh my god, you just pulled it right out of
my mind. Sixth sense. Yes, okay, I'd been asking questions
thinking they were weaknesses in the film, and they were
the hints of what was going on. But we could
name no shortage of m Night Shyamalan movies with the
(46:26):
surprises that we don't say, oh, what a fun what
a fun twist?
Speaker 1 (46:32):
Right right?
Speaker 3 (46:33):
No, we we want to we want to find that
guy's contact information and say, learn new party tricks. O.
Speaker 1 (46:41):
Hey, I mean even Robot Chicken goes what a dist
like when they mock him, like any type, he does
a move that's something crazy happens, what a twist?
Speaker 3 (46:51):
So anyway, so you must let me know how weapons
is when you see it.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Okay, very good, It's on my list.
Speaker 3 (46:58):
And let's conclude with the big box office. Is it
a big box office success? I don't know if it
has been. It opened very well, but a lot of
these movies, even as Marvel kind of steadies itself, these
movies are really front loaded to a degree that when
(47:20):
Marvel was reaching its peak, those movies had multiples that
played out over weeks in a way that even some
of these supposedly improved like Thunderbolts titles don't seem to achieve.
So we're talking about fantastic four first steps, right.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yes we are. And I went it specifically before the car.
I love that car they designed, and that was it
and I saw the car and you know, Okay, so
you set this thing in a past retro future scenario,
and you do it because you can devolve away from
(48:03):
any political muck that you might get involved in. And
so by doing that and creating this kind of fun
universe where people still have manners and wear hats and
stuff like that, you you take out some of the
other elements. But really it's a story about their kid.
(48:26):
So your whole plot line is about the kid Franklin,
and is the genetic thing. And it seems that the
kid who's your spoiler alert can resurrect life. There you go,
that's the that's the movie future. So Gigantis is coming
for this kid. It's like, okay, so what's the Fantastic four.
Speaker 3 (48:48):
Do Gigantis is coming for the kid? Why?
Speaker 1 (48:52):
I forget that plot point, but basically they believe. Yeah,
at that point, you're like, ah, this is.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Because Gigantic to me is Kevin Faig, the guy that
runs Marvel, and he will quickly grab up any young
person who is shown or believed to have the power.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
To resurrect, resurrect.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Dead dead life. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Oh my god. Well, and I would say I would like,
could we have cut this movie down to say twenty
minutes and then jump to the kid being an adult
superhero now whatever his power is, and Gigantis and like,
you know, super villain's coming for him from around the multiverse.
(49:41):
Can we do that? Probably not, because there's no comic
book that ever followed that through and as far as
I never read Fantastic for that much, but I don't
remember ever the pregnancy storyline being a big, big throughput
on any of that stuff. So so yeah, I found
(50:01):
it problematic. But they did everything right right. They had
four writers on this thing, and they had scrubbed this
and rewrote it and re seen by scene everything had
thought put into it to get this out into the
public at a time when it's you know, culturally, where
(50:23):
are we? And so this is this is trying to
reorient itself in a set of an existence that doesn't exist.
And you're like, okay, I'm with you, and so you know,
in that way, it's all right. But when you go, oh,
love are the plot points again? Like you know they
(50:45):
it's just been what am I looking for? The term
is bleached, it's been taken within an inch of its life,
and just every scene crafted to the best of the
movie industry's ability at this time and place.
Speaker 3 (51:05):
You mentioned the car, like, I do appreciate the design
of what I've seen, and I'm really pleased by that
kind of design, that kind of retro futurism, right, and
I and I love that it's even on the posters
like it's it's it's been. This is an opening coherent
(51:27):
across all the different pieces of the film and promoting
it is it you know, it's like my appeal would
be going to see it as if I'm going to
like a Disneyland attraction of the World of Tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Yeah, exactly, It's almost like that.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
And so there are those joys in it, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
But they are they few and far between, or are
they leaning on that so much that you have to
then go, well, why didn't you put this in a
different context?
Speaker 3 (52:08):
But well, so here's the question for you, right, like
would there be other stories in the world they created
for this movie? Would there be other stories that would
(52:29):
be interesting to tell? Or only a story about the
Fantastic Four?
Speaker 1 (52:38):
Well, I suppose if you do an every time I
see a past retro future, I also think everybody embracing
atomic energy, right, this brand new of scary energy. How
is it done? Hydrogen, molecular splitting, all of that sort
of thing, And you go, okay, is there a story there?
(53:01):
But then you go back to Oppenheimer, right, like what
have we done? And so you see you can't reverse that,
so you know, to have that in context to other
movies that have come already and explained away, or or.
Speaker 3 (53:18):
Because I've always loved wright supporting players and supporting performers,
because they're the ones that let me believe in the
world that I'm watching. I'll follow the leads because I
find them attractive or entertaining or compelling or scary or
whatever it is. And of course it's their story. But
(53:39):
I only believe the world they're in if I believe
what's around them, right, And you know, the problem going
back to all of the Daniel Craigbond films was that
when Casino Royal comes out, it's not just that he's good,
(53:59):
it's that they they depicted a world for Bond to
explore that seemed really exciting, right, full of stories, and
then with each successive movie that world got smaller and
smaller and less interesting, until he himself was no longer
really that interesting. And so you know, like, is there
(54:24):
in this world they've created for Fantastic Four? Is there
a romantic comedy going on? Is there a police procedural
we could have seen instead? Is there like, is this
a world that they've invented full of stories or is
it just a world that was created for these four
(54:47):
characters story?
Speaker 1 (54:49):
Yes, because it seems like it was a choice to
dial back from having the Fantastic Four because the previous
versions were all in present day America right then, none
of them had any sort of thing and so the
fighting that was going on these buildings we're here and
now all of that sort of thing. So this way
(55:11):
of dialing it back from her present reality, it didn't
seem like it was the idea to explore this new world.
Speaker 3 (55:18):
One of the things that doesn't get I think enough
of the blame for the ultimate just over you know,
I don't know, well, there was oversaturation of the Marvel product,
but just of the fatigue. It was something that doesn't
(55:39):
get enough of the blame for the fatigue. Is a
really tough problem to avoid, which is that Marvel movies
were based on stories that were set largely in the
world as we know it, right, but they all involved
huge threats and huge upheaval, and the more that happens,
(56:01):
the more the world on screen is not the world
we're in because it has to be changed to reflect
how a world would change in the wake of these events.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
Right.
Speaker 3 (56:16):
To me, the real educational example is Independence Day and
decades later the next Independence Day and really revealing all
other issues aside with it. It really strikes home. You
(56:37):
make a movie like Independence Day, you cannot make a sequel.
You cannot do it. And the reason is because what
was so delightful was you dropped a b picture storyline
in the world as we know it. But from that
point on, now you now have to do all that
(56:58):
heavy lifting of world building when the world was already
built in the first one, right, But now it's an
alternate reality and you've got to build out all of it.
And the longer the years go on, the more you
have to build out. Here is how things changed after it.
I in fact would say if look the money, and
I would deny no one a paycheck. But if it's
(57:20):
life changing money and you want to go and do
it again, then you should do it. What my advice
would be, maybe you embrace the idea of multi versus
and the concept that there is a theory that, yes,
(57:43):
certain events can change a timeline, but the further you
get away from that event, the more the stream will
come back together. If you think of time like a
stream and you throw a big giant object in the
middle of it, of course the stream disperses, but you
(58:03):
know what it does. Eventually it seeks itself again and
it comes back together, so that if you go further on, yeah,
you may have changed the ripples of history for a while,
but it isn't the butterfly effect actually, where you know
you you took one step off the path and you
(58:26):
come back to your timeline and the Nazis are running
everything oh wait, that did happen. Okay, but it But
it is more or less the idea that the inexorable
forward movement of time is going to reclaim itself, right, uh,
(58:46):
just for a while? Is it going to be disrupted?
And so I would say as storytellers, embrace that idea.
Embrace as much as possible, get back to the world
as it is, even to the point of almost absurdism,
because that could lead to pleasant, funny moments as opposed
to what so often happens. You took things that were
(59:07):
pleasing because of how light and funny they were, but
because you had to address the impacts of all these
changes dude to violence and destruction. Man, it doesn't stay
light very long. Hell, and now you're serving double heavy weights,
(59:29):
the heavy weight of how do we keep this going
and the heavy weight of addressing the awful things that
happened the time before. But if you said to yourself, light,
life and time will reclaim itself, you know, then you
can do what they did in Trials and Tribulations on
(59:50):
Deep Space nine where they go back and visit the
Tribles episode from the classic Star Trek and you know,
Colmeni's chief o Brien is saying, who are those people?
And you know the answer is there Klingons And they
look to wharf and they go, those are Klingons because
they don't look anything like him. And his answer is
it's a long story. That's it, right, that's it. But
(01:00:15):
by god, did later iterations of Star Trek really feel
the need to heavily explain those.
Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Changes, all that changes? Yeah? Yeah, And I suspect that
that per chances maybe the problem with Superman. But I
don't know if you can give it up for the
changes and just go, Okay, we've just cleaned the slate.
I put my forearm on the table, and now we're
starting again, or versus wait a sec. You know, I
(01:00:44):
suspect that that might be the polarity going on in
that thing.
Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
And I would also take a page out of the
old television pilot book, you know, from TV shows for people.
If you're starting over again, that's doesn't mean you have
to do an origin story. And what I understand is
Superman isn't an origin story. I don't know, I haven't
seen it, but that's the right thing. Just started again.
(01:01:10):
We don't need to see Batman's parents die again. We
never need to see this, right, like, and so just
tell a story and let it be a new start
and let the person exist. And that's what TV shows
did so well, right, And it was the classic dramatic
(01:01:31):
idea of in media ray you begin in the middle
of the.
Speaker 1 (01:01:34):
Story, right.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Belated spoiler alert
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