May 26, 2025 • 60 mins
Original Release Date: Monday 26 May 2025
Description: It’s Memorial Day in the USA. Dean Haglund in Michigan and Phil Leirness in California are joined by Jon Lawlor in New Jersey to discuss New Jersey Transit, the importance of celebrating everyone, and the challenges involved when someone you meet or care about is experiencing memory loss issues. May is also Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month in the USA. To celebrate this, Phil sits down for an in-depth personal interview with a giant of the AAPI community, and a legendary actress who made her mark on stage, one screen, and in voice work. Takayo Fischer has worked in huge movies, with legendary stars, has been a fixture on television for decades, has lent her voice to many animated programs, and has worked on iconic stage projects with major talents of the 20th and 21st Century. The story of how she got to the stage is unlike any other.
Description: It’s Memorial Day in the USA. Dean Haglund in Michigan and Phil Leirness in California are joined by Jon Lawlor in New Jersey to discuss New Jersey Transit, the importance of celebrating everyone, and the challenges involved when someone you meet or care about is experiencing memory loss issues. May is also Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Month in the USA. To celebrate this, Phil sits down for an in-depth personal interview with a giant of the AAPI community, and a legendary actress who made her mark on stage, one screen, and in voice work. Takayo Fischer has worked in huge movies, with legendary stars, has been a fixture on television for decades, has lent her voice to many animated programs, and has worked on iconic stage projects with major talents of the 20th and 21st Century. The story of how she got to the stage is unlike any other.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
And now your chill pack Hollywood Hour with Dean Hagland
and Phil Lareness.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Coming at you from Los Angeles. I am Phil Lareness
coming at us from Birmingham, Michigan, just outside the motor city.
It's Dean Hagland and joining us via the magic of
Zoom all the way from Bloomfield, New Jersey, where he
can't travel anywhere because they have no air traffic control
or trains. It's Lolly John Lawler. I'm want to hear about, like, yeah,
(01:01):
how bad is all of this because because of the
strikes and honestly, what are you and Kelly doing? What's
the process that's getting you to and from the city
on a regular basis.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, the good news is strike is over, okay, as
of you heard it here first, Yes, yes, In case
you're not in the New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, the
tri state area, prist State area, your your NJ Transit
(01:33):
strike is over. You can now take NJ Transit, you
can take Path, you can take Metro North. All all
the things are back open. I don't know what they
landed on. I remember I sent a note to the
effect of because because nd Transit has a you know,
a respond to or or comment section in their app.
(01:54):
And I just said, please give them what they're asking for.
Just give it to them. I don't know what it is,
but I know you have the money. Just do it.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
And miss you really missed your calling as a hostage negotiating.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
And I'll remind you that broke New York during the
Ford administration because the mayor gave into the New York
subway system all their demands, gave him like eight million
dollars bankrupt at the city. The whole city went crazy.
And that was the seventies.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So yeah, well, and this is what I'll say is
I tend to I tend to personally think that if
if a union is asking for better wages or or
a safer something or other, I usually think that it's
within some realm of like need, yeah, need reality, Like
(02:47):
it's not. They're not They're not going overboard. I don't
know in this particular case. I've read some things that
say it could have gone either way. But and I
will say, there's plenty of waste when it comes to
all of the mass transit in this area. There is,
and it is what it is, and I would love
to get to the bottom of it. But I am
(03:08):
but a slowly idiot. So the trains did finally start running.
We were lucky that, you know, over the weekend, Kelly
didn't have to work. She worked from home on Friday.
I didn't have to work on Friday. Then Monday came
and Monday was the only day wherein we both had
to figure out how to get to work. And we
had kind of planned to just drive in and bite
the bullet, and that's what we did because I wanted,
(03:32):
you know, New York it would be important that New
York City feel the congestion. Yeah, for as long as
they have to to get over the sort of strike time,
and we didn't know how long it was going to
go on. There was the hope that it was going
to work out okay, And like I said, they kind
of came to an agreement on Sunday, but they needed
(03:53):
Monday to check everything and make sure that infrastructure was cool,
because even a day goes by and stuff can fall apart.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So what was it?
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Was?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
It crazy bad on Monday the congestion and it.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Was not great. I can say we definitely we planned ahead.
We left with plenty of time, and still I had
to drop Kelly at some random light that was like
sort of on the way. I was like, actually, if
you just get out here, it'll be faster for you
to get to work, and then I'll go park the car.
Don't worry about it because I don't work until like noon,
so I had to go in early just because I
(04:26):
was getting hurt in there. And I was like, I'll,
you know, bounce around serendipitously in the city and see
what happens. And I did have quite a time. It
was a hassle.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It was.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Potentially terrible. If it had gone on for any more
than a day or two, I think everyone would have
just stopped. Like I think we all would have just
stopped doing everything.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
We've had some not not you know, the same, but
I would say equally frustrating circumstances. I mean, Dean has
been living in a one room over the garage for
a year and a half and you know, Lily and
I from our rooftop were watching fires move closer approach
(05:15):
as there were evacuation orders all around us, and you
had to drive into the city one day. So we've
all had.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Our own I hadn't bring this up, to be honest
with you. I know, yeah, I thought I thought it
was a relatively nice strike. Everything worked out, at least
as far as I know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Nice strike in honor of Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage Month,
I interviewed a legend of the AAPI community, of a
legend of American theater, and it just seemed important, like
of all years this year to do something, because I
(05:55):
feel like we're gonna be lucky if there are still
months dedicated to celebrating, right, Like, I mean, we're.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Also getting back to the suspension of abeas corpus to
just do whatever we want with humans now.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Accept celebrate them. And so because that's the thing is, like,
you know, you could hear something a philosophy. It seems
to me that, you know what, we want to reject
anything that divides us on the basis of race. And
(06:32):
I think there's a part of our brains for most
of us that could hear that and go, WHOA, Okay, yeah,
we don't want to be divided on the basis of race, right,
I mean, we want to be unified. That's what racism
is is to divide on the on the basis of race.
And yet the movement getting rid of museums and celebrations,
(06:55):
and is exactly that that we're not celebrating differences. And
you know, just the art of acknowledging differences is not
to be divided.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Right, It's to be inclusive. In Winnipeg, we had a
summer festival around a week long. It was called Folklorama,
and all the different communities that lived in Winnipeg, be
it Japanese, Jamaican, English, the English pub at the university,
(07:33):
they would hold They would rent a community hall, university
common area and for that week they would take over
and they would decorate with the flags of their country
and the dances and they'd have exhibitions. And you know,
I sat in a unair conditioned room in the I
(07:54):
think it was the Jamaican Pavilion and to watch a
guy limbo while drinking coconut water when I was eight
years old, listening to steel drums and was just blown
away that a guy could do that.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
All of that sounds like a great show. Now, how
do we arrange that show?
Speaker 5 (08:14):
I know?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
And it happened at every pavilion. And my sister was
Princess of the Swedish Pavilion and she danced in a
thing and she coclinea la la la Colin, and we
called her Cocoa. That was her nickname because of that
song when she was the princess of the Swedish Pavilion.
And so all the different countries had these pavilions and
(08:37):
all of Winnipeg transit was free, so you could go,
you could drink if you were an adult. I was ad,
but you could drink all the various local brews of
the country, they were all imported in and you celebrated
and you had fun. And it was this. The whole
city became this entire multicultural party place, and it was
(09:01):
like so funny.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
That's what I find myself wishing, you know, Like people
will hear the phrase, look, no man can be free
until all men are free, right, the basic Martin Luther
King Junior philosophy. But I feel the same way about celebrated,
like who can truly feel celebrated if everyone is not celebrated.
(09:24):
But therein lies the conundrum because I do think, for example,
people are pretty cool. Everybody is cool when they find
out it's your birthday. Everybody wishes you a happy birthday.
My experience when I got married was, oh my god,
it's incredible. How like love matters to people, like everybody
(09:49):
would strangers would just be so happy you just got married,
Oh my god, congratulates like people want to celebrate stuff
like that that is available to everybody. But that word
celebration means literally to express why something matters. Right, And
if you in any way doubt that you or your
(10:13):
heritage or your history matter, if you have any questions
about that, then I wonder if that's what makes you
not want to celebrate others.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Hmm, Right, because you're so negative about your own.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Is the is the is the offensive to deny that
something matters, caused by a defensiveness about whether actually your
own thing matters.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Hmm.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
That's a great point because if I'm if I'm not
positive about that, how do I have any springboard to
go and be positive about anything else.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
So I interviewed this amazing woman who I've always long
admired from Afar Takyo born Subo Uchi in San Joaquin Valley, California,
back in the nineteen thirties. She's a farmer's daughter. If
her family had not been interned during World War Two,
(11:29):
if they had not had their rights and their property
taken from them, she never would have discovered her lifelong
passion of theater and acting in the arts. And so
sometimes that which wounds us can heal us and we
can be stronger for the broken places, right, And so
I think it's this really inspirational American story. And anyway,
(11:50):
I interview her about that, about her origin story, and
about her long and august career, and about maybe a
little too more much about Brad Pitt. But still do.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
You ever get too much of Brad pitt.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Personal privilege in the interview? But what I wanted to
ask you guys.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Was yes, I'm attracted to Brad Pitt's question.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And and Dean.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
No, I way past that.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Well, majority rules and we and we do have a quorum.
So the proclamation Brad Pitt is hunky okay.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Sexy as the day is born.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Her first love always the theater. I mean, such a
prolific voice actress, and it is incredible, like just when
she's talking to me, the way that she'll use her
voice and then dropping into kabuki and into character. And
you understand why even before we were regularly seeing people
(12:52):
of Asian descent on our television screens, turns out we
were hearing her every week on cartoons because her voice
work is spectacular, honed by decades on the stage in
the theater. Right. But in twenty twenty one, I think
she retired from theater still doing TV, was doing sitcoms
(13:16):
and things, but because the memorization for TV and film
is much less rigorous, right, that's required. But again, theater
was very much her passion in her love. But I
was told, and I'm not telling tales out of school,
that she has trouble remembering things now, and that by
(13:40):
her own admission the next day, she might not remember
me or that I interviewed her, but that she remembers
things that happened a long time ago very clearly. The
great news for me personally is that she did remember
the interview and did remember really enjoying herself. But within
the conversation there are repetitions. There are things where she
(14:04):
says it as if she hadn't said it, and then
comes back to it and then says, you know, like
there's a point she wants to make and comes back
to it, and it's a point that she made multiple
times earlier in the hour. And I'm wondering, from an
editing standpoint, do I include those repetitions to what degree
do I want to checkt someone? Because I'll tell you
(14:30):
I went into it thinking I'm at least gonna get
snippets of answers and I can set up here's what
the question was, and here was the answer. But the
truth is, the conversation flowed, and the people who witnessed
us to make sure that she was okay and everything
(14:52):
could not believe how much she opened up to me
and the intimacy we shared in that conversation. But I
wasn't prepared for that either. Now I don't know, like,
am I am I showing the repetitions? Am I? You know?
Including those because we're honest or.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Because of the honesty? Yes, yes, well honesty, But you
know that is tough because technically the repetitions then also
could be slated that you're out to embarrass her or
there's shame in it and as all things, and that
(15:34):
you're highlighting amaze, so so you you could be hoisted
on your own petard there.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, it's and That's where I'm at is. It's tricky
because I don't want to make it be about her
decline even but I'm also wondering, is there.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Honesty of the interview and is.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
There value in people. This is an issue that faces
so many people, where people they work with, people they know,
people they love, experience sometimes the frustration of you know,
the concert already, Yeah, conversation and.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Like Patty goes, you told me that you told me
that story four years ago.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Four years is enough time to forget Patty, Yeah, I
can tell you one more time. I think you can
deal with me telling you the same story once every
four years. I'm sorry, it'll be a different same story,
but it'll be the same story.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But it has context.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah, Yeah, I don't think. Yeah, I think if it
was about if you were mentioning and she was mentioning,
how she will often tell the same story or repeat
herself because she doesn't remember that she said it. I
think you could show an instance of that if that
was part of it. But I kind of agree. I
think at the end of the day, people know that
(16:59):
it's edited, and if they don't, and you'd like to
say that, like, we of course edit these This conversation
was long. We edit this down for time and so forth,
then people can can judge the fact that, yeah, stuff
was cut out.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
And energetically right so so if she's repeating that story,
it's about the energy of the conversation. She's bringing that
up again because in her mind, this is where the
energy is going.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Because we've dropped right back into yeah, an energetic feeling
or experience. Yeah yeah, yeah, that she's right.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
A woman won a Nobel or not a Nobel prize,
some genius grant, she got a hundred.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Hell what hell is that her name?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
No, a pell grant?
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Oh maybe hell. Anyway, what she works with is she
goes to a group of seniors on the edge of
dementia and basically just improvises a conversation as they riff
off of oh my god, I know, and some of
them start singing and stuff like that. But she incorporates
(18:07):
that energetically with her improv training background, as a way
for everyone to relieve themselves of the frustration that they
can't remember, as opposed to just being going, oh yeah, man,
holy crap, one time I had rubber boots. Oh yeah,
and then we're gonna talk, you know. And so she
has the ability to swim through a group of ten
(18:28):
or fifteen seniors in various stages of decline and allowed
them to express joy and emotions without, you know, trying
to curtail them into a single narrative.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I am sitting with ta Kyo Fisher high a top
downtown Los Angeles, way way too high downtown Los Angeles.
Fortunately we've positioned things so that I just get to
look at you and you don't have to see a
grown man get down into fetal position and weep for
(19:06):
his mother. Tokyo, thank you for doing this.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
First of all, my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I've always been fascinated that you were born in the
San Joaquin Valley of California, farming community, because my parents
lived in the San Joaquin Valley. I didn't grow up there,
but they lived there.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
So you you've heard of the town of Hardwick.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I have heard of Hanford.
Speaker 6 (19:34):
Oh, Hanford was a big city.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
No, I hate to break it to your Hanford is
for you.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
It was like a big city.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Oh it's a metropolitan area. Yeah. No, Hardwick a couple
hundred people, right, I mean it doesn't even have a
post office. I don't think anymore.
Speaker 7 (19:51):
Oh really, Oh, I used to have to walk a
while to get to the post There was one store,
and there was a mailboxes there and everything.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yes, you were probably as a little girl going to
school and then having chores.
Speaker 7 (20:10):
You know, growing up on the farm. I found it
enjoyable because I was always running around all over the place,
and it's you have the beautiful trees, and if I
wanted apricots or peaches, I would know grapes.
Speaker 6 (20:26):
You know, it's just raw all right there.
Speaker 7 (20:29):
It's hard work for the father, and my mother had
to work very hard.
Speaker 6 (20:34):
Also.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
You had three older sisters, had.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
Three older sisters, and then I came along.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Did they all think that they were going to end
up being farmers or did they say I can't wait
to get old enough.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Never.
Speaker 7 (20:51):
I never heard them complaining or thinking they're going to
be married to farmers.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
I you know, well, I was so.
Speaker 7 (21:02):
Young at that time. And then the war started and
then we were put into the concentration camps.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I read an interview that you did, and you spoke
about how your parents you never saw them be affectionate.
It wasn't an affectionate kind of upbringing or environment.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
I never saw my parents being affectionate with one another.
I don't think they had any romance. I think it
was just that he needed a wife. He was working
here and he went back to get a wife.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
And so that was it.
Speaker 7 (21:39):
I mean, no romance, no feeling of liking or loving
one another. It's someone who's going to be your spouse
and you're going to have children.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
And I ask this for a reason because you I think,
at what maybe ten years of age, you're going to
be in the the camps. Yes, and you're suddenly going
to be introduced to what's going to become a lifelong
passion for you, which is the arts.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So there had been no exposure to the romance of
an artistic life for the theater or anything prior to
that point.
Speaker 7 (22:24):
No, I had no idea about any of that. It
was just when I think about it, did just amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
That is amazing. So first your family is sent to
the Fresno Assessment the Center, and then you end up
permanently relocated to Arkansas, Yes, and.
Speaker 6 (22:45):
First to Jerome and then to Roar.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
And it was at one of these camps where you
met our mutual friend June, wasn't it.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
Yes? What camp did we meet? Jerome and Roar? Which
was the second camp?
Speaker 7 (22:58):
Okay, my love of theater began because we were in
camp and they couldn't get any of the adult women
to play these roles, and here I was a child,
but ten eleven twelve, and I'm playing roles Japanese kubble
key roles. I don't even really speak Japanese that well.
(23:20):
If I were to say something in Japanese, it would
be what that's no namaya takayo but in or you
ask my name?
Speaker 6 (23:29):
But instead of saying it like that, it was very stylized.
It's you just sung. If I show my ani mordtsu busar,
you know, just very stylized.
Speaker 7 (23:42):
I had no idea what I was saying. I had
and there would be someone there to try to explain
to me in English what I'm doing.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
They couldn't get an.
Speaker 7 (23:51):
Adult to play these courtisan roles, and here I am
ten eleven twelve.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
I'm playing a kortasan. I don't think I even knew
what a cortis on was.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Look, I will watch movies and TV shows today and
I will swear that sometimes the actors don't know, they
don't understand what they're talking about, but there's a there's
a paycheck in it, so you find some way to
connect it to something you know. Especially I find this
to be true in like science fiction, like they don't
understand the physics.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
And it's so interesting when I think about it now,
because I up to that point I had no knowledge
about Japanese dance or Japanese.
Speaker 6 (24:32):
Plays or anything.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
And so going into camp it just I was just
I was one of the few, and I was willing,
and I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
And so you get exposed to this whole huge world,
yes of creativity.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
Creative that most ordinary Jumpanese.
Speaker 7 (24:52):
It's it's the very styleized very they speak Japanese in
a different style with you know so here.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
But I loved it, you know, my point of view
would and June has has has lectured me about this before,
but I might say something along the lines of, my goodness,
the worst thing that could possibly happen has just taken place.
Freedom's taken from your family. And yet amidst that, here
(25:24):
you're being introduced to your lifelong passion.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
Yes, I had a sister, an older sister, my older
sister who had the passion like you.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
She was so upset I'm an American and i am
I'm put in a concentration camp. I mean, she just
thought it was horrible and hated every second of it.
But I, as a child, you know, I just went.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
Along with whatever.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I've always found that the things that wound us can
also be the source of our healing itself. And for you,
it's like this beautiful embodiment of that, yes, totally wrong,
what took place, the taking of freedoms, and you find
yourself there.
Speaker 7 (26:12):
Nevertheless, it gave me a passion something that I've loved,
and here it is, all these years later. I have
a love of theater, which I if I had still
if there had been no camp, or if I hadn't
been there and i'd been a farmer, I'd be a
farmer's wife, probably not even introduced the theater. And here
(26:33):
my whole love of theater began in camp, and not
even something I understood, because I didn't really understand all
that the very difficult Japanese. My mother had to try
to explain what it was I was saying.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
But it felt right, you said it felt right.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
It felt good. I thought it was fun.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Now, after the camp, your family moves to Chicago. Why
not back to California? Do you remember? Well?
Speaker 7 (27:04):
I think we all left camp at different times. My
father got some job and some state that we'd never
heard of just just to just be just to be
free and just to make some money. And then somehow
we all I guess Chicago was a nice safe place
and we could all work at different types of jobs
(27:26):
or whatever we wanted. My father became a carpenter, I
think for a while, just we needed to survive.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
And was it there in Chicago when you won the
beauty patchet, the missus nisse Queen?
Speaker 7 (27:44):
I won teen queen at one point, and then a
nise queen. I went to a dance and got lucky.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
What what does it involve to win that?
Speaker 7 (27:58):
Is there that there was going to that they were
going to choose someone I did, So it was a
surprise and I got to be Ni queen and whatever
it was. I enjoyed that that period, and it was
a nice title to have.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Who's niece queen? Now? Do we know?
Speaker 6 (28:15):
Don't? I don't think they have that anymore, do they?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Well, so you could be the raining in Chicago, all right,
queen in Chicago? All right?
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Not not all over, not.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
All over all right, but as far as we know,
you might be the reigning ni Queen of Chicago still
to this day in perpetuity. Yeah, all right, Long May
you rain, Thank you. You go off to college at
Rollins College, Winna Park, Florida. Why Rawlins? Was it because
(28:51):
I know you study theater?
Speaker 7 (28:53):
Went to Rollins only because I went to Hyde Park
High School in Chicago and the president I think of
Ron's College at one point came to speak to our
school and he made an impression. And he's the only
person from a college whoever came to our school to
speak to us, and so I thought, oh, I'd like
(29:14):
to go there.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So this is another example of you just being really
open to the impressions you're receiving. You know, these people
come into the camp but put on these shows, and
the impression of that to you is, hey, this is
this feels good. So would you say that this that
this is true of your of your whole life, that
(29:37):
you're not thinking your way through things. You're not You're
not going, okay, this is what I got to do next.
Was it really just being open to the impressions and
the inspirations that found you.
Speaker 7 (29:49):
It was just being open to having fun. I guess
having fun, having fun, enjoying life because I was doing
They couldn't get older women to play the Japanese roles
and here i am a child WEP ten eleven, and
I'm playing couple key roles of these grown courisons, you know.
(30:12):
And then I found and I'm not even speaking English.
I don't always understand exactly what they're saying. My mother
would try to explain a little bit about about the roles.
And here all these other actors are older.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I think it's really good, especially for women, to start
in the theater young, and to realize that so many
of the great parts are written for older women, as
opposed to maybe TV or movies where most things star
young people. Right, But in theater, yeah, you have to
(30:46):
age into some of these roles. And so I love
that you're starting out with some of the older roles
from the very big absolutely.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (30:56):
And now that I'm older, I'm trying to get roles
where I'm not quite so old.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
You're still not old enough to play the best ones. Okay.
So you go to Rollins College, and I know that
you were studying a theater there and you were involved
in theater, but you left school early.
Speaker 7 (31:14):
I left school after two years because I fell in
love with I thought a wonderful man.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
It was a guy.
Speaker 7 (31:22):
It was a guy that it was really so sweet
and wonderful to me. Their family came over. They said
on the Mayflower, they had Mayflower ancestors and the whole thing.
And then once we.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Got married, just it.
Speaker 7 (31:44):
It was never no, it wasn't really working. He was
always upset with me and always.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Trying to well, how did you meet?
Speaker 6 (31:55):
We met in college.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
He was in college too, He was.
Speaker 7 (31:59):
A senior and I a uh, I think we met
each other. So I knew each other freshman sophomore year
and I left after myself more year when he was graduated.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Was he involved in theater also?
Speaker 7 (32:10):
He No, he was not involved with theater. We have
three children.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
So where did you live? Did you live.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
In New England?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Oh? Okay, So you're born in farming country in central California,
and then you know you move not through choice of
your own, but to Arkansas.
Speaker 6 (32:31):
Yes, so then you go to this and Arkansas.
Speaker 7 (32:34):
I became actually in Arkansas during the camps, I became
very Japanese because I did I did shamisen playing, I
did uh learn how to sing Japanese, not modern songs,
but the old.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
I don't know what what word uh.
Speaker 7 (32:56):
I became very Japanese in terms of my performance my acting,
everything was almost in Jepan music, except once in a
while I would do a play in English.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
But I just love that this little girl on a
farm in California ends up finding her Japanese heritage in Arkansas,
of all places in the.
Speaker 6 (33:20):
South, in a concentration camp.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
And then you moved to Chicago, and then Florida and
then New England. Yes, you're just crisscrossing up and down
the US. Yes, setting out on this What an adventure.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
And once I enjoyed being in all these different places,
and I remember once I made it a choice. I
have been to every single state in the United States,
and maybe not for long, but driving through, stopping and
saying hello to someone.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
But I wanted to just see the United States.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I mean, isn't that one of the most fun things
about theater? Right? We get to visit places that we
ever would otherwise, And so you're able to both explore
all these different places in real life and explore all
these different places on the stage.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
Yes, I.
Speaker 7 (34:13):
Love the stage. You don't make much money doing stage work.
You make money doing movies. But I prefer theater work.
I prefer why Why there's a pleasure in feeling connected
through the whole, because when you're doing a movie, you're
(34:33):
just doing one little scene, and so you have to
work yourself into being ready for just that scene, whether
it's romantic, whether it's angry, whether it's.
Speaker 6 (34:44):
Sad, it's love. I love theater.
Speaker 7 (34:49):
You don't make much money in theater, but to me,
that was where a lot of my pleasure really came from.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, you're really alive on stage.
Speaker 6 (34:57):
You're alive on stage. You never know it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Which is your life, which is the story of the
adventure of your life. You're just to Kyle Fisher, to me,
more than an actress is an explorer. I mean, you
have explored every inch of this country. You've explored yourself
through all of these roles, and you like to be
on stage exploring the world that's created there. How do
(35:24):
you get from New England, So that would be about
nineteen fifty four, You've left college and you're in New England.
How do you get from there onto the stage in
New York in just a few years? How does that?
Speaker 7 (35:38):
I think I heard they were auditioning. I probably took
the Greyhoume bus, went to New York and an audition
and then I was having a wonderful time, but my
husband was just got more and more upset and demanded
that I come home. And I felt I had to
(35:59):
get my marriage. It had to be first choice, okay,
And so I left and it was the scene all
my scenes a lot with William Shatner.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yes, so on stage it's a world of Susie.
Speaker 6 (36:15):
Wan Well, Susie Wah.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
A legendary show. I mean, obviously groundbreaking. Frons Nuian who
would have been in the film, I understand, but she
got sick, so that's why she had to be replaced
by Nancy.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
That's sad, that's but you know, it's life.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I guess it's how it happens sometimes, right, And there's so.
Speaker 6 (36:39):
Many but I'm so glad.
Speaker 7 (36:40):
Even though it was a short time, it was such
a wonderful, pleasurable, fabulous time.
Speaker 6 (36:46):
And Joshua Logan as the director, was.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
One, Yeah, you're working with Joshua Logan. So look, I
have to ask you then about you know, you have
these scenes with William Shatner nineteen fifty eight, is do
you have any sense okay, this guy he's going to
be a star. I mean, can you can you tell
when you're working with someone like in that way on
that show, do you have anything I didn't.
Speaker 7 (37:10):
Know that he was going to be a star. I
mean he I thought he was a very good actor.
He was you know, sometime you become really close and
friendly with someone. We didn't have that relationship. He was
someone I worked with.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I don't I don't think he has that relationship with
anyone from what I've heard.
Speaker 7 (37:28):
Yeah, no, I mean so I enjoyed working with him,
but it's not like I could say we were friends.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
And you played Gwenny for who kind of a comedic
sort of character, like a quirky.
Speaker 7 (37:45):
I don't even remember all of it now, but I remember.
I just I just remember that that was one of
the joys and highlights of my life.
Speaker 6 (37:55):
I suppose what.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I always love about theater, and especially theater in that age,
was that so often the most kind of colorful, fun
roles wouldn't be the lead roles. It'd be this tradition
of rich supporting roles, which I've always felt in the theater.
You know, in great films of course too, But in
(38:18):
the theater it's always been understood that we only believe
the world we're watching if we believe all these supporting players. Right,
We'll watch the leads if they're attractive or if they're
funny or whatever, but we only believe the world we're
watching if we believe all these other players. And to me,
that's what the supporting means. You're supporting our belief in
(38:42):
the world that we're watching.
Speaker 7 (38:45):
I really treasured that short time that I had and
working with Joshua Logan. He was so wonderful, kind a
good director. Working with him one was a treat you.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Worked with Several years later, you worked with a director
that I have worked for at U c l A.
Peter Sellers.
Speaker 6 (39:08):
Oh, Peter.
Speaker 7 (39:09):
I'm crazy about Peter Sellers. I've been in Peter Seller's production.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I rarely use the word genius about people, but he
everything about this.
Speaker 6 (39:18):
Guy he is incredible. Is my god.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
I I would work for him at U c l
A for some of his lectures and things like this,
because he still teaches to this day.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
I got really lucky when I got a chance to
work with him.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Well, I think he got lucky when he got the
chance to work with you. And you and you're working together,
you're touring.
Speaker 6 (39:41):
Europe together, Yes, we did.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Was that was that your first time in Europe. No,
of course you have you been? Is there anywhere you
haven't been?
Speaker 6 (39:51):
Lots of places. I haven't been lots of places.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
So if I may ask, then your marriage doesn't in
force your first your first marriage, Yeah, my.
Speaker 7 (40:03):
First marriages, it was not not not a successful good marriage.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
It's it's I was so naive and I don't know.
I don't know why.
Speaker 7 (40:16):
He Maybe he loved me in some strange way, but
I never felt like he liked me or could accept
me who I am. He didn't accept the Japanese part
of me.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
I wonder though, if that. I understand that the Japanese
part makes it.
Speaker 6 (40:33):
Unique Asian part.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
But but I do think what you described might have
been altogether too common for many marriages, which is this
idea of you fall in love but you haven't learned
to like the person.
Speaker 7 (40:48):
Oh, because my second marriage, when I think of all
the years, I cannot think of one instant where we
ever didn't care for one another. Someone I like, someone
I love, someone I respected. He was very supportive of
my love of theater and enjoyed that I was having
(41:10):
a good time, and whatever he was up to it,
I felt the same.
Speaker 6 (41:15):
It was just.
Speaker 7 (41:16):
When I look back and think about it, I can't
think of one instant where it was not pleasurable.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
And this is sire, and he was involved in the business.
He was a producer, And am I wrong? Didn't he
have like a? Wasn't he part of Hannah Barbera?
Speaker 6 (41:36):
He represented Hannah Barbera?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (41:40):
Kind lovely men.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And you've done a lot of voice work in animation. Yes,
Is that how you meet sire or not?
Speaker 5 (41:50):
No?
Speaker 7 (41:51):
No, I don't really remember exactly how I met him anymore,
but the first time or how we got he just
when I think of him as he is someone I
think of that I like, I respect, I love, I
just I felt I was so lucky to have met
(42:12):
him here.
Speaker 6 (42:13):
I was his third wife.
Speaker 7 (42:15):
And when I think about that, all the time we
spent together, there's not one instant where I can think
of where I was upset with him or where we
didn't get along. Because we were able to communicate and
be open and be friendly, we got very lucky.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I don't want this to become a racy, tell all
sort of interview, but in the theater, backstage romances are commonplace, right,
It's I'm sure at the very least you witnessed, oh backstage.
Speaker 7 (42:50):
But I never really had any romance with anyone I
worked with.
Speaker 6 (42:56):
But I never, to me was so.
Speaker 7 (43:00):
But I saw so many short romances take place. I
never really quite understood it.
Speaker 6 (43:09):
But I've always thought it was dangerous.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I always thought it was dangerous, you.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Know, it is.
Speaker 6 (43:13):
I think it is dangerous because.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
You have to be able to trust the people that
you're working with, Yes, and when you let it get
to a certain point now, and not only those people
maybe can't trust each other, but the people around have
a hard time because oh.
Speaker 7 (43:30):
Yeah, no, it gets very difficult if you're involved in
working with a group and then there's a couple that's
having lovely romance at first and then fights exactly right.
Speaker 6 (43:41):
That's terrible.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
I'm thankful that I didn't fall for any of that.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah, well, you were too in love with the theater.
Speaker 6 (43:50):
I love the theater.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, yeah, that was your first love.
Speaker 7 (43:53):
That was absolutely and I love You make money when
you do movies, but to me, theater and it's pleasure.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Is you know, even in movies. Right, I'll be on
location and I'll see some of these romances develop, and
I always think about it like, no, this is my job.
I'm here, yes, and so I'm I want to maintain
a professional decorum all the time, not just where the
cameras rolling, but all the time the time.
Speaker 6 (44:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Okay, so boy, so much to ask you about it.
I know we're running a lot of time. Our chaperone
is going to call called an end to this at
some point too. We grew up. What do you remember
about June?
Speaker 7 (44:39):
But what I remember about June is all the time
in camp, the pleasurable times we had, you know, doing theater,
Jepanese theater, Jempney's. Oh but I taught baton twirling. I
learned how to twirl a baton, got it through a
(45:00):
either Sears or Montgomery Ward, and I learned how to twirl.
Speaker 6 (45:04):
And then I top a toon twirling to the other kids.
Speaker 7 (45:07):
I mean here, I'm just a beginner myself, but a
little bit better than those just starting out.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
I always think the best teachers actually are those people
that just learned what they're teaching, because it's all fresh,
yes at that point. The worst teachers are the people
that forgot what it is to be sitting there as
the pupil, you know, because then it just becomes rote
at that point.
Speaker 7 (45:30):
So, so June is the person I've known the longest.
She's the person I met in camp, and fortunately we
I think she's the only one through all these years
someone that I met in camp that we have stayed
friendly with. And we lived in different parts of the
United States for many for most of our lives until
(45:52):
the last few years.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
You know, Oh, that's lovely. Maybe we should develop like
a like a road trip movie just the two of you,
and you can go back and visit everywhere to Kyo
lived and it's just a road trip adventure, a little film.
And Louie is kind of a thing, all right. We
talked about Peter Sellers. I was also I know, you
did the Vagina mog monologues, Evensler's Vagina Monologues, you did
(46:15):
that as well. I mean, you've done legendary pieces and
worked with legendary people. Are there any particular.
Speaker 7 (46:24):
Because at the time I didn't know that they were,
you know, like legends or anything. They're just the people
that I enjoyed working with and who I respected well.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
So having worked with so many greats that in history,
looking back, we now say, wow, yeah, these were these
were landmark pieces, and these were people that really made
their mark. What was it that you maybe looked for
in a collaborator or or that you most enjoyed in
(46:57):
a collaboration with someone?
Speaker 7 (47:00):
What I what I enjoyed in the collaboration is when
someone had that same feeling of you're working to create
something to you don't want to be standing out. Then
I don't think that's good at all to have one
person been the star, the standout, you know.
Speaker 6 (47:21):
I wanted it.
Speaker 7 (47:22):
To be more like a collaboration of everyone working together
to make it seem, to try to make it as
real as possible.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Right right, Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 7 (47:33):
I think I was one of the one of the
most wonderful directors with Peter Sellers that I don't know
that I had a chance to work with.
Speaker 6 (47:42):
I mean, he is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
For many years, you've been involved with East West Players,
which is, you know, I think one of the real
cultural pillars of this city. But of course it has
nationwide importance as well. When you think about your years
with the East West Players, what makes you feel really
(48:10):
good about your involvement.
Speaker 7 (48:13):
I I just and so pleased that there were some
of the leaders who were so strong to collaborate together,
to work. You have to work together to make it
work to and so it's not just like one person
standing out and doing it. It's you have to have
(48:35):
a group saying, let's do this together. I'm not going
to be the star of this whole group. Let's And
I think that's really why it worked, because they, a
small group got together, a community of oglity, community of artists.
And I'm very grateful for them.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, and I'm sure they're very grateful for you. You've done
a lot of TV and voice work, but I think
your first big screen movie might have been Dad with
Jack Lemon. Do you remember this? Yes? And I think
you had scenes with Jack Lemon. I think you played
(49:17):
his nurse in that.
Speaker 6 (49:19):
Yes, But isn't that funny? I don't really remember.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Do you remember anything about There was a movie you
did called Showdown in Little Tokyo.
Speaker 7 (49:28):
I remember the title, I remember, I remember, but I
don't remember any part of it.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Brandon Lee was one of the stars of it, Bruce
Lee's son, and this was just before he died tragically
on making another movie.
Speaker 7 (49:43):
I remember, I don't remember anything specific. I remember that
he was enjoyed of boulderby Bud that it was a
wonderful working time for me. It was it made my
heart feel good to yea, to be connected with them.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Oh that's sweet.
Speaker 6 (50:03):
Be part of it.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
You've been in huge hits like the Pirates of the
Caribbean movie, and your makeup in that is like so
much fun. Your character I in the.
Speaker 6 (50:17):
Makeup is they did they do a great job.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Do you remember if it was fun to make that,
because you know it looks fun from when you're watching it,
But I could imagine it could also be really grueling.
Speaker 7 (50:30):
No, I remember it as pleasurable. Oh, enjoyable. I don't
have any bad feeling when I think of that.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
And why you say grueling is not because anybody wasn't
nice to work with. But you know, just the environment.
You're out in boats and ocean and all these, you know,
elements that are difficult to control, so that can take
a while. But do you think your experience in the
theater teaches you to roll with the punches more when
(51:00):
you are on a film, maybe where it's not the
most controlled environment.
Speaker 7 (51:04):
To accept things as usually happen. I don't know if
it teaches you when I think of you know, times
when I have to be disciplined and be careful and everything.
I don't know that it's one specific theater or movies.
(51:25):
I just think it's life.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
It's just life and building up the experiences and the
wisdom from it. Yeah. You worked with Brad Pitt in
a movie called Moneyball. Yes, And I love this movie.
And one of the things that I love about it
is that Brad Pitt, who is arguably the most famous
(51:49):
person on the planet, certainly one of the most recognizable people.
You go everyone anywhere. You could go to any country
and they would go, oh, that's Brad Pitt. But somehow
I'm watching this movie and I'm actually seeing the guy
that runs the Oakland A's I stop seeing Brad Pitt
at some point. It's so real, but not with makeup
(52:12):
or prosthetics or anything. It's just an actor so dropping
into the reality and everyone around him. So I just
believe everything.
Speaker 6 (52:23):
I respect him as an actor. I think he just
every day. I agree with you.
Speaker 7 (52:28):
I love watching him because he is whatever he's playing,
that's who he.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Is, and you play his assistant in that and you
have some great interactions with him. But it's one of
the things that I love the most about storytelling for
the screen or the stage is that magic of chemistry
that can't be planned. But when you see it, as
(52:55):
I experience in this movie with you and Brad Pitt,
it's like, oh, yeah, she's been his right hand man
for lack of a editor forever forever. Like you just
had this interaction, this way of interacting. You probably just
met Brad Pitt.
Speaker 6 (53:12):
Yeah, we're doing a scene.
Speaker 7 (53:14):
It's so interesting here you're sometimes it's supposed to be
so close to one another emotion. It's like you're just
meeting and then you're going right into the park, you know.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
And yet I believed that the two of you had
worked together for ever, and it's I mean, that's the
real magic of it. And so I had to let
you know that's That's one of those movies where I
just I tell everybody, like you want to know what
acting looks like. This is what acting looks like.
Speaker 6 (53:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
Do you have any particular favorites of things that you've done?
Speaker 6 (53:48):
Everything I do I'm just crazy about at that moment.
I love it.
Speaker 7 (53:54):
I'm happy and grateful and I love acting and I
developed a love of acting. When I think about it,
it's all because I was in a concentration camp during
World War Two. Otherwise I would have been a farmer's
daughter living on some small farm in a small town
(54:17):
in California if I had never learned about acting and
had that pleasure of acting. I don't think you understand
it until you actually are involved in doing shows and plays.
And we were, you know, June and I were. We
work together so often. I think it's hard to try
(54:43):
to explain what that feeling is unless you had it.
But I developed a love for theater so early. I
was what ten eleven twelve when we were in camp,
and that's where my love of theater and acting began.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
I want to close by asking you about two phrases,
two terms that I've seen you use before, and I
was hoping you could help me understand them better. One
is and I'm sure I'm going to mispronounce it, so
please forgive me. But Chikata Ganta, it can't be helped.
(55:23):
It can't be helped.
Speaker 6 (55:24):
She got the gunny.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
We may have been talking about this a little bit
when I asked you, is it your you know, what
is it that helps you roll with the punches when
things may be are going well on a production. How
did you how did you learn this? How did you
learn this philosophy?
Speaker 6 (55:45):
I don't know that.
Speaker 7 (55:46):
I remember hearing my mother used it a lot, I
guess as a child, and so it was something I
figured she got the good eye. It can't be helped.
This is the way things are, and so we have
to learn to accept it, live with it.
Speaker 6 (56:02):
Got good eye.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
And what about this word common?
Speaker 6 (56:07):
Common? Bear up?
Speaker 2 (56:11):
You bear up? I've heard you say, to bear something
with dignity?
Speaker 7 (56:19):
Yes, yes, I mean people can go on to tirades
and have just be terrible and dreadful and mean or something.
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
It's just sitting here with you right now, having seen
you from Afar before, admired you from Afar, this word
dignity really applies to you. You're very You carry yourself
with such innate dignity.
Speaker 6 (56:48):
I believe I didn't know that. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
What does what does dignity mean to you? What does that?
Speaker 6 (56:56):
What does it mean to me?
Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah? What is it to be dignified?
Speaker 7 (57:02):
I guess growing up? Also, I never really wanted to
bring any shame to my family, to my sisters, to
my mother, to my father. Anything I did it is
also a reflection for them, and somehow that was always
with me. Just it's not just just me. I represent
(57:28):
more than just me, Yes, I think just somehow when
I think of my mother and how she acted and
how she always was, it was she influenced.
Speaker 6 (57:44):
Me a great deal.
Speaker 7 (57:45):
I'm the fourth daughter of my father Kyukuro and my
mother Kinko at the keda.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
And the and and their name, the family name, the surname.
Speaker 6 (57:57):
And my family name is.
Speaker 7 (58:01):
And I never met another Subouchi in the United States
ts U b O u c Hi Subouchi, and a
lot of times Japanese have the same last name or
similar but I have never ever met another.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
Subouchi anything else.
Speaker 7 (58:22):
June Juna is my oldest friend, met because of our
love of theater.
Speaker 6 (58:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
She's also probably the youngest at heart too, maybe your
oldest friend, but youngest at heart with the same age.
Speaker 6 (58:38):
Right, Yeah, I'm I'm ninety two.
Speaker 7 (58:41):
Yeah, she's one month.
Speaker 6 (58:45):
In November, I will be ninety three. Yeah, so I
one month. She's younger than me by one month.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
Remember when I said that you're young at heart, because
this is exactly how little kids are about their age.
I'm one monthful, are you gonna start counting in half
now it's my half.
Speaker 7 (59:06):
Birthday, and so she has to listen to me because
I'm the old we're the.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
Elder one, right, she will bring shame upon her friendship
if she does not.
Speaker 6 (59:19):
She has to listen to me.
Speaker 2 (59:20):
Remember, come on, remember that.
Speaker 7 (59:23):
No, I feel very fortunate that we've had this friendship
for so.
Speaker 2 (59:27):
Long and you're just getting started.
Speaker 6 (59:31):
We still have a long way to go.
Speaker 2 (59:33):
Yeah, we're taking the show on the road. That's what
I like to think. All right, thank you both so.
Speaker 6 (59:37):
Much, no complaints and no regrets.
Speaker 5 (59:46):
I still believe in chasing dreamss and placing bets, but
I have learned that all you give is all you get,
so give it all you've got. I had my share,
(01:00:09):
I drank my fill, and even though I'm satisfied, I'm
hungry stoop to see what's down another road, beyond a.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Hill, and do it all again.
Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Belated spoiler alert
And now your chill pack Hollywood Hour with Dean Hagland
and Phil Lareness.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Coming at you from Los Angeles. I am Phil Lareness
coming at us from Birmingham, Michigan, just outside the motor city.
It's Dean Hagland and joining us via the magic of
Zoom all the way from Bloomfield, New Jersey, where he
can't travel anywhere because they have no air traffic control
or trains. It's Lolly John Lawler. I'm want to hear about, like, yeah,
(01:01):
how bad is all of this because because of the
strikes and honestly, what are you and Kelly doing? What's
the process that's getting you to and from the city
on a regular basis.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Well, the good news is strike is over, okay, as
of you heard it here first, Yes, yes, In case
you're not in the New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, the
tri state area, prist State area, your your NJ Transit
(01:33):
strike is over. You can now take NJ Transit, you
can take Path, you can take Metro North. All all
the things are back open. I don't know what they
landed on. I remember I sent a note to the
effect of because because nd Transit has a you know,
a respond to or or comment section in their app.
(01:54):
And I just said, please give them what they're asking for.
Just give it to them. I don't know what it is,
but I know you have the money. Just do it.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
And miss you really missed your calling as a hostage negotiating.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
And I'll remind you that broke New York during the
Ford administration because the mayor gave into the New York
subway system all their demands, gave him like eight million
dollars bankrupt at the city. The whole city went crazy.
And that was the seventies.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So yeah, well, and this is what I'll say is
I tend to I tend to personally think that if
if a union is asking for better wages or or
a safer something or other, I usually think that it's
within some realm of like need, yeah, need reality, Like
(02:47):
it's not. They're not They're not going overboard. I don't
know in this particular case. I've read some things that
say it could have gone either way. But and I
will say, there's plenty of waste when it comes to
all of the mass transit in this area. There is,
and it is what it is, and I would love
to get to the bottom of it. But I am
(03:08):
but a slowly idiot. So the trains did finally start running.
We were lucky that, you know, over the weekend, Kelly
didn't have to work. She worked from home on Friday.
I didn't have to work on Friday. Then Monday came
and Monday was the only day wherein we both had
to figure out how to get to work. And we
had kind of planned to just drive in and bite
the bullet, and that's what we did because I wanted,
(03:32):
you know, New York it would be important that New
York City feel the congestion. Yeah, for as long as
they have to to get over the sort of strike time,
and we didn't know how long it was going to
go on. There was the hope that it was going
to work out okay, And like I said, they kind
of came to an agreement on Sunday, but they needed
(03:53):
Monday to check everything and make sure that infrastructure was cool,
because even a day goes by and stuff can fall apart.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So what was it?
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Was?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
It crazy bad on Monday the congestion and it.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
Was not great. I can say we definitely we planned ahead.
We left with plenty of time, and still I had
to drop Kelly at some random light that was like
sort of on the way. I was like, actually, if
you just get out here, it'll be faster for you
to get to work, and then I'll go park the car.
Don't worry about it because I don't work until like noon,
so I had to go in early just because I
(04:26):
was getting hurt in there. And I was like, I'll,
you know, bounce around serendipitously in the city and see
what happens. And I did have quite a time. It
was a hassle.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
It was.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
Potentially terrible. If it had gone on for any more
than a day or two, I think everyone would have
just stopped. Like I think we all would have just
stopped doing everything.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
We've had some not not you know, the same, but
I would say equally frustrating circumstances. I mean, Dean has
been living in a one room over the garage for
a year and a half and you know, Lily and
I from our rooftop were watching fires move closer approach
(05:15):
as there were evacuation orders all around us, and you
had to drive into the city one day. So we've
all had.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Our own I hadn't bring this up, to be honest
with you. I know, yeah, I thought I thought it
was a relatively nice strike. Everything worked out, at least
as far as I know.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Nice strike in honor of Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage Month,
I interviewed a legend of the AAPI community, of a
legend of American theater, and it just seemed important, like
of all years this year to do something, because I
(05:55):
feel like we're gonna be lucky if there are still
months dedicated to celebrating, right, Like, I mean, we're.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Also getting back to the suspension of abeas corpus to
just do whatever we want with humans now.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Accept celebrate them. And so because that's the thing is, like,
you know, you could hear something a philosophy. It seems
to me that, you know what, we want to reject
anything that divides us on the basis of race. And
(06:32):
I think there's a part of our brains for most
of us that could hear that and go, WHOA, Okay, yeah,
we don't want to be divided on the basis of race, right,
I mean, we want to be unified. That's what racism
is is to divide on the on the basis of race.
And yet the movement getting rid of museums and celebrations,
(06:55):
and is exactly that that we're not celebrating differences. And
you know, just the art of acknowledging differences is not
to be divided.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Right, It's to be inclusive. In Winnipeg, we had a
summer festival around a week long. It was called Folklorama,
and all the different communities that lived in Winnipeg, be
it Japanese, Jamaican, English, the English pub at the university,
(07:33):
they would hold They would rent a community hall, university
common area and for that week they would take over
and they would decorate with the flags of their country
and the dances and they'd have exhibitions. And you know,
I sat in a unair conditioned room in the I
(07:54):
think it was the Jamaican Pavilion and to watch a
guy limbo while drinking coconut water when I was eight
years old, listening to steel drums and was just blown
away that a guy could do that.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
All of that sounds like a great show. Now, how
do we arrange that show?
Speaker 5 (08:14):
I know?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
And it happened at every pavilion. And my sister was
Princess of the Swedish Pavilion and she danced in a
thing and she coclinea la la la Colin, and we
called her Cocoa. That was her nickname because of that
song when she was the princess of the Swedish Pavilion.
And so all the different countries had these pavilions and
(08:37):
all of Winnipeg transit was free, so you could go,
you could drink if you were an adult. I was ad,
but you could drink all the various local brews of
the country, they were all imported in and you celebrated
and you had fun. And it was this. The whole
city became this entire multicultural party place, and it was
(09:01):
like so funny.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
That's what I find myself wishing, you know, Like people
will hear the phrase, look, no man can be free
until all men are free, right, the basic Martin Luther
King Junior philosophy. But I feel the same way about celebrated,
like who can truly feel celebrated if everyone is not celebrated.
(09:24):
But therein lies the conundrum because I do think, for example,
people are pretty cool. Everybody is cool when they find
out it's your birthday. Everybody wishes you a happy birthday.
My experience when I got married was, oh my god,
it's incredible. How like love matters to people, like everybody
(09:49):
would strangers would just be so happy you just got married,
Oh my god, congratulates like people want to celebrate stuff
like that that is available to everybody. But that word
celebration means literally to express why something matters. Right, And
if you in any way doubt that you or your
(10:13):
heritage or your history matter, if you have any questions
about that, then I wonder if that's what makes you
not want to celebrate others.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Hmm, Right, because you're so negative about your own.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Is the is the is the offensive to deny that
something matters, caused by a defensiveness about whether actually your
own thing matters.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Hmm.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
That's a great point because if I'm if I'm not
positive about that, how do I have any springboard to
go and be positive about anything else.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
So I interviewed this amazing woman who I've always long
admired from Afar Takyo born Subo Uchi in San Joaquin Valley, California,
back in the nineteen thirties. She's a farmer's daughter. If
her family had not been interned during World War Two,
(11:29):
if they had not had their rights and their property
taken from them, she never would have discovered her lifelong
passion of theater and acting in the arts. And so
sometimes that which wounds us can heal us and we
can be stronger for the broken places, right, And so
I think it's this really inspirational American story. And anyway,
(11:50):
I interview her about that, about her origin story, and
about her long and august career, and about maybe a
little too more much about Brad Pitt. But still do.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
You ever get too much of Brad pitt.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Personal privilege in the interview? But what I wanted to
ask you guys.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Was yes, I'm attracted to Brad Pitt's question.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
And and Dean.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
No, I way past that.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Well, majority rules and we and we do have a quorum.
So the proclamation Brad Pitt is hunky okay.
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Sexy as the day is born.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Her first love always the theater. I mean, such a
prolific voice actress, and it is incredible, like just when
she's talking to me, the way that she'll use her
voice and then dropping into kabuki and into character. And
you understand why even before we were regularly seeing people
(12:52):
of Asian descent on our television screens, turns out we
were hearing her every week on cartoons because her voice
work is spectacular, honed by decades on the stage in
the theater. Right. But in twenty twenty one, I think
she retired from theater still doing TV, was doing sitcoms
(13:16):
and things, but because the memorization for TV and film
is much less rigorous, right, that's required. But again, theater
was very much her passion in her love. But I
was told, and I'm not telling tales out of school,
that she has trouble remembering things now, and that by
(13:40):
her own admission the next day, she might not remember
me or that I interviewed her, but that she remembers
things that happened a long time ago very clearly. The
great news for me personally is that she did remember
the interview and did remember really enjoying herself. But within
the conversation there are repetitions. There are things where she
(14:04):
says it as if she hadn't said it, and then
comes back to it and then says, you know, like
there's a point she wants to make and comes back
to it, and it's a point that she made multiple
times earlier in the hour. And I'm wondering, from an
editing standpoint, do I include those repetitions to what degree
do I want to checkt someone? Because I'll tell you
(14:30):
I went into it thinking I'm at least gonna get
snippets of answers and I can set up here's what
the question was, and here was the answer. But the
truth is, the conversation flowed, and the people who witnessed
us to make sure that she was okay and everything
(14:52):
could not believe how much she opened up to me
and the intimacy we shared in that conversation. But I
wasn't prepared for that either. Now I don't know, like,
am I am I showing the repetitions? Am I? You know?
Including those because we're honest or.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Because of the honesty? Yes, yes, well honesty, But you
know that is tough because technically the repetitions then also
could be slated that you're out to embarrass her or
there's shame in it and as all things, and that
(15:34):
you're highlighting amaze, so so you you could be hoisted
on your own petard there.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yeah, it's and That's where I'm at is. It's tricky
because I don't want to make it be about her
decline even but I'm also wondering, is there.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Honesty of the interview and is.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
There value in people. This is an issue that faces
so many people, where people they work with, people they know,
people they love, experience sometimes the frustration of you know,
the concert already, Yeah, conversation and.
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Like Patty goes, you told me that you told me
that story four years ago.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Four years is enough time to forget Patty, Yeah, I
can tell you one more time. I think you can
deal with me telling you the same story once every
four years. I'm sorry, it'll be a different same story,
but it'll be the same story.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
But it has context.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
Yeah, Yeah, I don't think. Yeah, I think if it
was about if you were mentioning and she was mentioning,
how she will often tell the same story or repeat
herself because she doesn't remember that she said it. I
think you could show an instance of that if that
was part of it. But I kind of agree. I
think at the end of the day, people know that
(16:59):
it's edited, and if they don't, and you'd like to
say that, like, we of course edit these This conversation
was long. We edit this down for time and so forth,
then people can can judge the fact that, yeah, stuff
was cut out.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
And energetically right so so if she's repeating that story,
it's about the energy of the conversation. She's bringing that
up again because in her mind, this is where the
energy is going.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Because we've dropped right back into yeah, an energetic feeling
or experience. Yeah yeah, yeah, that she's right.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
A woman won a Nobel or not a Nobel prize,
some genius grant, she got a hundred.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Hell what hell is that her name?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
No, a pell grant?
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Oh maybe hell. Anyway, what she works with is she
goes to a group of seniors on the edge of
dementia and basically just improvises a conversation as they riff
off of oh my god, I know, and some of
them start singing and stuff like that. But she incorporates
(18:07):
that energetically with her improv training background, as a way
for everyone to relieve themselves of the frustration that they
can't remember, as opposed to just being going, oh yeah, man,
holy crap, one time I had rubber boots. Oh yeah,
and then we're gonna talk, you know. And so she
has the ability to swim through a group of ten
(18:28):
or fifteen seniors in various stages of decline and allowed
them to express joy and emotions without, you know, trying
to curtail them into a single narrative.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I am sitting with ta Kyo Fisher high a top
downtown Los Angeles, way way too high downtown Los Angeles.
Fortunately we've positioned things so that I just get to
look at you and you don't have to see a
grown man get down into fetal position and weep for
(19:06):
his mother. Tokyo, thank you for doing this.
Speaker 6 (19:09):
First of all, my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
I've always been fascinated that you were born in the
San Joaquin Valley of California, farming community, because my parents
lived in the San Joaquin Valley. I didn't grow up there,
but they lived there.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
So you you've heard of the town of Hardwick.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
I have heard of Hanford.
Speaker 6 (19:34):
Oh, Hanford was a big city.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
No, I hate to break it to your Hanford is
for you.
Speaker 6 (19:42):
It was like a big city.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Oh it's a metropolitan area. Yeah. No, Hardwick a couple
hundred people, right, I mean it doesn't even have a
post office. I don't think anymore.
Speaker 7 (19:51):
Oh really, Oh, I used to have to walk a
while to get to the post There was one store,
and there was a mailboxes there and everything.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yes, you were probably as a little girl going to
school and then having chores.
Speaker 7 (20:10):
You know, growing up on the farm. I found it
enjoyable because I was always running around all over the place,
and it's you have the beautiful trees, and if I
wanted apricots or peaches, I would know grapes.
Speaker 6 (20:26):
You know, it's just raw all right there.
Speaker 7 (20:29):
It's hard work for the father, and my mother had
to work very hard.
Speaker 6 (20:34):
Also.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
You had three older sisters, had.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
Three older sisters, and then I came along.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Did they all think that they were going to end
up being farmers or did they say I can't wait
to get old enough.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
No.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Never.
Speaker 7 (20:51):
I never heard them complaining or thinking they're going to
be married to farmers.
Speaker 6 (20:58):
I you know, well, I was so.
Speaker 7 (21:02):
Young at that time. And then the war started and
then we were put into the concentration camps.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
I read an interview that you did, and you spoke
about how your parents you never saw them be affectionate.
It wasn't an affectionate kind of upbringing or environment.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
I never saw my parents being affectionate with one another.
I don't think they had any romance. I think it
was just that he needed a wife. He was working
here and he went back to get a wife.
Speaker 6 (21:37):
And so that was it.
Speaker 7 (21:39):
I mean, no romance, no feeling of liking or loving
one another. It's someone who's going to be your spouse
and you're going to have children.
Speaker 6 (21:51):
It's okay.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
And I ask this for a reason because you I think,
at what maybe ten years of age, you're going to
be in the the camps. Yes, and you're suddenly going
to be introduced to what's going to become a lifelong
passion for you, which is the arts.
Speaker 6 (22:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
So there had been no exposure to the romance of
an artistic life for the theater or anything prior to
that point.
Speaker 7 (22:24):
No, I had no idea about any of that. It
was just when I think about it, did just amazing.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
That is amazing. So first your family is sent to
the Fresno Assessment the Center, and then you end up
permanently relocated to Arkansas, Yes, and.
Speaker 6 (22:45):
First to Jerome and then to Roar.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
And it was at one of these camps where you
met our mutual friend June, wasn't it.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
Yes? What camp did we meet? Jerome and Roar? Which
was the second camp?
Speaker 7 (22:58):
Okay, my love of theater began because we were in
camp and they couldn't get any of the adult women
to play these roles, and here I was a child,
but ten eleven twelve, and I'm playing roles Japanese kubble
key roles. I don't even really speak Japanese that well.
(23:20):
If I were to say something in Japanese, it would
be what that's no namaya takayo but in or you
ask my name?
Speaker 6 (23:29):
But instead of saying it like that, it was very stylized.
It's you just sung. If I show my ani mordtsu busar,
you know, just very stylized.
Speaker 7 (23:42):
I had no idea what I was saying. I had
and there would be someone there to try to explain
to me in English what I'm doing.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
They couldn't get an.
Speaker 7 (23:51):
Adult to play these courtisan roles, and here I am
ten eleven twelve.
Speaker 6 (23:57):
I'm playing a kortasan. I don't think I even knew
what a cortis on was.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Look, I will watch movies and TV shows today and
I will swear that sometimes the actors don't know, they
don't understand what they're talking about, but there's a there's
a paycheck in it, so you find some way to
connect it to something you know. Especially I find this
to be true in like science fiction, like they don't
understand the physics.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
And it's so interesting when I think about it now,
because I up to that point I had no knowledge
about Japanese dance or Japanese.
Speaker 6 (24:32):
Plays or anything.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
And so going into camp it just I was just
I was one of the few, and I was willing,
and I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
And so you get exposed to this whole huge world,
yes of creativity.
Speaker 6 (24:49):
Creative that most ordinary Jumpanese.
Speaker 7 (24:52):
It's it's the very styleized very they speak Japanese in
a different style with you know so here.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
But I loved it, you know, my point of view
would and June has has has lectured me about this before,
but I might say something along the lines of, my goodness,
the worst thing that could possibly happen has just taken place.
Freedom's taken from your family. And yet amidst that, here
(25:24):
you're being introduced to your lifelong passion.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
Yes, I had a sister, an older sister, my older
sister who had the passion like you.
Speaker 7 (25:35):
She was so upset I'm an American and i am
I'm put in a concentration camp. I mean, she just
thought it was horrible and hated every second of it.
But I, as a child, you know, I just went.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
Along with whatever.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I've always found that the things that wound us can
also be the source of our healing itself. And for you,
it's like this beautiful embodiment of that, yes, totally wrong,
what took place, the taking of freedoms, and you find
yourself there.
Speaker 7 (26:12):
Nevertheless, it gave me a passion something that I've loved,
and here it is, all these years later. I have
a love of theater, which I if I had still
if there had been no camp, or if I hadn't
been there and i'd been a farmer, I'd be a
farmer's wife, probably not even introduced the theater. And here
(26:33):
my whole love of theater began in camp, and not
even something I understood, because I didn't really understand all
that the very difficult Japanese. My mother had to try
to explain what it was I was saying.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
But it felt right, you said it felt right.
Speaker 6 (26:52):
It felt good. I thought it was fun.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Now, after the camp, your family moves to Chicago. Why
not back to California? Do you remember? Well?
Speaker 7 (27:04):
I think we all left camp at different times. My
father got some job and some state that we'd never
heard of just just to just be just to be
free and just to make some money. And then somehow
we all I guess Chicago was a nice safe place
and we could all work at different types of jobs
(27:26):
or whatever we wanted. My father became a carpenter, I
think for a while, just we needed to survive.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
And was it there in Chicago when you won the
beauty patchet, the missus nisse Queen?
Speaker 7 (27:44):
I won teen queen at one point, and then a
nise queen. I went to a dance and got lucky.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
What what does it involve to win that?
Speaker 7 (27:58):
Is there that there was going to that they were
going to choose someone I did, So it was a
surprise and I got to be Ni queen and whatever
it was. I enjoyed that that period, and it was
a nice title to have.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Who's niece queen? Now? Do we know?
Speaker 6 (28:15):
Don't? I don't think they have that anymore, do they?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
Well, so you could be the raining in Chicago, all right,
queen in Chicago? All right?
Speaker 6 (28:26):
Not not all over, not.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
All over all right, but as far as we know,
you might be the reigning ni Queen of Chicago still
to this day in perpetuity. Yeah, all right, Long May
you rain, Thank you. You go off to college at
Rollins College, Winna Park, Florida. Why Rawlins? Was it because
(28:51):
I know you study theater?
Speaker 7 (28:53):
Went to Rollins only because I went to Hyde Park
High School in Chicago and the president I think of
Ron's College at one point came to speak to our
school and he made an impression. And he's the only
person from a college whoever came to our school to
speak to us, and so I thought, oh, I'd like
(29:14):
to go there.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
So this is another example of you just being really
open to the impressions you're receiving. You know, these people
come into the camp but put on these shows, and
the impression of that to you is, hey, this is
this feels good. So would you say that this that
this is true of your of your whole life, that
(29:37):
you're not thinking your way through things. You're not You're
not going, okay, this is what I got to do next.
Was it really just being open to the impressions and
the inspirations that found you.
Speaker 7 (29:49):
It was just being open to having fun. I guess
having fun, having fun, enjoying life because I was doing
They couldn't get older women to play the Japanese roles
and here i am a child WEP ten eleven, and
I'm playing couple key roles of these grown courisons, you know.
(30:12):
And then I found and I'm not even speaking English.
I don't always understand exactly what they're saying. My mother
would try to explain a little bit about about the roles.
And here all these other actors are older.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I think it's really good, especially for women, to start
in the theater young, and to realize that so many
of the great parts are written for older women, as
opposed to maybe TV or movies where most things star
young people. Right, But in theater, yeah, you have to
(30:46):
age into some of these roles. And so I love
that you're starting out with some of the older roles
from the very big absolutely.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 7 (30:56):
And now that I'm older, I'm trying to get roles
where I'm not quite so old.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
You're still not old enough to play the best ones. Okay.
So you go to Rollins College, and I know that
you were studying a theater there and you were involved
in theater, but you left school early.
Speaker 7 (31:14):
I left school after two years because I fell in
love with I thought a wonderful man.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
It was a guy.
Speaker 7 (31:22):
It was a guy that it was really so sweet
and wonderful to me. Their family came over. They said
on the Mayflower, they had Mayflower ancestors and the whole thing.
And then once we.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Got married, just it.
Speaker 7 (31:44):
It was never no, it wasn't really working. He was
always upset with me and always.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Trying to well, how did you meet?
Speaker 6 (31:55):
We met in college.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
He was in college too, He was.
Speaker 7 (31:59):
A senior and I a uh, I think we met
each other. So I knew each other freshman sophomore year
and I left after myself more year when he was graduated.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Was he involved in theater also?
Speaker 7 (32:10):
He No, he was not involved with theater. We have
three children.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
So where did you live? Did you live.
Speaker 6 (32:16):
In New England?
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Oh? Okay, So you're born in farming country in central California,
and then you know you move not through choice of
your own, but to Arkansas.
Speaker 6 (32:31):
Yes, so then you go to this and Arkansas.
Speaker 7 (32:34):
I became actually in Arkansas during the camps, I became
very Japanese because I did I did shamisen playing, I
did uh learn how to sing Japanese, not modern songs,
but the old.
Speaker 6 (32:51):
I don't know what what word uh.
Speaker 7 (32:56):
I became very Japanese in terms of my performance my acting,
everything was almost in Jepan music, except once in a
while I would do a play in English.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
But I just love that this little girl on a
farm in California ends up finding her Japanese heritage in Arkansas,
of all places in the.
Speaker 6 (33:20):
South, in a concentration camp.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
And then you moved to Chicago, and then Florida and
then New England. Yes, you're just crisscrossing up and down
the US. Yes, setting out on this What an adventure.
Speaker 7 (33:35):
And once I enjoyed being in all these different places,
and I remember once I made it a choice. I
have been to every single state in the United States,
and maybe not for long, but driving through, stopping and
saying hello to someone.
Speaker 6 (33:50):
But I wanted to just see the United States.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
I mean, isn't that one of the most fun things
about theater? Right? We get to visit places that we
ever would otherwise, And so you're able to both explore
all these different places in real life and explore all
these different places on the stage.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
Yes, I.
Speaker 7 (34:13):
Love the stage. You don't make much money doing stage work.
You make money doing movies. But I prefer theater work.
I prefer why Why there's a pleasure in feeling connected
through the whole, because when you're doing a movie, you're
(34:33):
just doing one little scene, and so you have to
work yourself into being ready for just that scene, whether
it's romantic, whether it's angry, whether it's.
Speaker 6 (34:44):
Sad, it's love. I love theater.
Speaker 7 (34:49):
You don't make much money in theater, but to me,
that was where a lot of my pleasure really came from.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Yeah, you're really alive on stage.
Speaker 6 (34:57):
You're alive on stage. You never know it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
Which is your life, which is the story of the
adventure of your life. You're just to Kyle Fisher, to me,
more than an actress is an explorer. I mean, you
have explored every inch of this country. You've explored yourself
through all of these roles, and you like to be
on stage exploring the world that's created there. How do
(35:24):
you get from New England, So that would be about
nineteen fifty four, You've left college and you're in New England.
How do you get from there onto the stage in
New York in just a few years? How does that?
Speaker 7 (35:38):
I think I heard they were auditioning. I probably took
the Greyhoume bus, went to New York and an audition
and then I was having a wonderful time, but my
husband was just got more and more upset and demanded
that I come home. And I felt I had to
(35:59):
get my marriage. It had to be first choice, okay,
And so I left and it was the scene all
my scenes a lot with William Shatner.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
Yes, so on stage it's a world of Susie.
Speaker 6 (36:15):
Wan Well, Susie Wah.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
A legendary show. I mean, obviously groundbreaking. Frons Nuian who
would have been in the film, I understand, but she
got sick, so that's why she had to be replaced
by Nancy.
Speaker 6 (36:32):
That's sad, that's but you know, it's life.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I guess it's how it happens sometimes, right, And there's so.
Speaker 6 (36:39):
Many but I'm so glad.
Speaker 7 (36:40):
Even though it was a short time, it was such
a wonderful, pleasurable, fabulous time.
Speaker 6 (36:46):
And Joshua Logan as the director, was.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
One, Yeah, you're working with Joshua Logan. So look, I
have to ask you then about you know, you have
these scenes with William Shatner nineteen fifty eight, is do
you have any sense okay, this guy he's going to
be a star. I mean, can you can you tell
when you're working with someone like in that way on
that show, do you have anything I didn't.
Speaker 7 (37:10):
Know that he was going to be a star. I
mean he I thought he was a very good actor.
He was you know, sometime you become really close and
friendly with someone. We didn't have that relationship. He was
someone I worked with.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I don't I don't think he has that relationship with
anyone from what I've heard.
Speaker 7 (37:28):
Yeah, no, I mean so I enjoyed working with him,
but it's not like I could say we were friends.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
And you played Gwenny for who kind of a comedic
sort of character, like a quirky.
Speaker 7 (37:45):
I don't even remember all of it now, but I remember.
I just I just remember that that was one of
the joys and highlights of my life.
Speaker 6 (37:55):
I suppose what.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
I always love about theater, and especially theater in that age,
was that so often the most kind of colorful, fun
roles wouldn't be the lead roles. It'd be this tradition
of rich supporting roles, which I've always felt in the theater.
You know, in great films of course too, But in
(38:18):
the theater it's always been understood that we only believe
the world we're watching if we believe all these supporting players. Right,
We'll watch the leads if they're attractive or if they're
funny or whatever, but we only believe the world we're
watching if we believe all these other players. And to me,
that's what the supporting means. You're supporting our belief in
(38:42):
the world that we're watching.
Speaker 7 (38:45):
I really treasured that short time that I had and
working with Joshua Logan. He was so wonderful, kind a
good director. Working with him one was a treat you.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Worked with Several years later, you worked with a director
that I have worked for at U c l A.
Peter Sellers.
Speaker 6 (39:08):
Oh, Peter.
Speaker 7 (39:09):
I'm crazy about Peter Sellers. I've been in Peter Seller's production.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
I rarely use the word genius about people, but he
everything about this.
Speaker 6 (39:18):
Guy he is incredible. Is my god.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
I I would work for him at U c l
A for some of his lectures and things like this,
because he still teaches to this day.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
I got really lucky when I got a chance to
work with him.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Well, I think he got lucky when he got the
chance to work with you. And you and you're working together,
you're touring.
Speaker 6 (39:41):
Europe together, Yes, we did.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Was that was that your first time in Europe. No,
of course you have you been? Is there anywhere you
haven't been?
Speaker 6 (39:51):
Lots of places. I haven't been lots of places.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
So if I may ask, then your marriage doesn't in
force your first your first marriage, Yeah, my.
Speaker 7 (40:03):
First marriages, it was not not not a successful good marriage.
Speaker 6 (40:08):
It's it's I was so naive and I don't know.
I don't know why.
Speaker 7 (40:16):
He Maybe he loved me in some strange way, but
I never felt like he liked me or could accept
me who I am. He didn't accept the Japanese part
of me.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
I wonder though, if that. I understand that the Japanese
part makes it.
Speaker 6 (40:33):
Unique Asian part.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
But but I do think what you described might have
been altogether too common for many marriages, which is this
idea of you fall in love but you haven't learned
to like the person.
Speaker 7 (40:48):
Oh, because my second marriage, when I think of all
the years, I cannot think of one instant where we
ever didn't care for one another. Someone I like, someone
I love, someone I respected. He was very supportive of
my love of theater and enjoyed that I was having
(41:10):
a good time, and whatever he was up to it,
I felt the same.
Speaker 6 (41:15):
It was just.
Speaker 7 (41:16):
When I look back and think about it, I can't
think of one instant where it was not pleasurable.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
And this is sire, and he was involved in the business.
He was a producer, And am I wrong? Didn't he
have like a? Wasn't he part of Hannah Barbera?
Speaker 6 (41:36):
He represented Hannah Barbera?
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Okay?
Speaker 6 (41:40):
Kind lovely men.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And you've done a lot of voice work in animation. Yes,
Is that how you meet sire or not?
Speaker 5 (41:50):
No?
Speaker 7 (41:51):
No, I don't really remember exactly how I met him anymore,
but the first time or how we got he just
when I think of him as he is someone I
think of that I like, I respect, I love, I
just I felt I was so lucky to have met
(42:12):
him here.
Speaker 6 (42:13):
I was his third wife.
Speaker 7 (42:15):
And when I think about that, all the time we
spent together, there's not one instant where I can think
of where I was upset with him or where we
didn't get along. Because we were able to communicate and
be open and be friendly, we got very lucky.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
I don't want this to become a racy, tell all
sort of interview, but in the theater, backstage romances are commonplace, right,
It's I'm sure at the very least you witnessed, oh backstage.
Speaker 7 (42:50):
But I never really had any romance with anyone I
worked with.
Speaker 6 (42:56):
But I never, to me was so.
Speaker 7 (43:00):
But I saw so many short romances take place. I
never really quite understood it.
Speaker 6 (43:09):
But I've always thought it was dangerous.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I always thought it was dangerous, you.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Know, it is.
Speaker 6 (43:13):
I think it is dangerous because.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
You have to be able to trust the people that
you're working with, Yes, and when you let it get
to a certain point now, and not only those people
maybe can't trust each other, but the people around have
a hard time because oh.
Speaker 7 (43:30):
Yeah, no, it gets very difficult if you're involved in
working with a group and then there's a couple that's
having lovely romance at first and then fights exactly right.
Speaker 6 (43:41):
That's terrible.
Speaker 2 (43:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (43:44):
I'm thankful that I didn't fall for any of that.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah, well, you were too in love with the theater.
Speaker 6 (43:50):
I love the theater.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Yeah, yeah, that was your first love.
Speaker 7 (43:53):
That was absolutely and I love You make money when
you do movies, but to me, theater and it's pleasure.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Is you know, even in movies. Right, I'll be on
location and I'll see some of these romances develop, and
I always think about it like, no, this is my job.
I'm here, yes, and so I'm I want to maintain
a professional decorum all the time, not just where the
cameras rolling, but all the time the time.
Speaker 6 (44:21):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Okay, so boy, so much to ask you about it.
I know we're running a lot of time. Our chaperone
is going to call called an end to this at
some point too. We grew up. What do you remember
about June?
Speaker 7 (44:39):
But what I remember about June is all the time
in camp, the pleasurable times we had, you know, doing theater,
Jepanese theater, Jempney's. Oh but I taught baton twirling. I
learned how to twirl a baton, got it through a
(45:00):
either Sears or Montgomery Ward, and I learned how to twirl.
Speaker 6 (45:04):
And then I top a toon twirling to the other kids.
Speaker 7 (45:07):
I mean here, I'm just a beginner myself, but a
little bit better than those just starting out.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
I always think the best teachers actually are those people
that just learned what they're teaching, because it's all fresh,
yes at that point. The worst teachers are the people
that forgot what it is to be sitting there as
the pupil, you know, because then it just becomes rote
at that point.
Speaker 7 (45:30):
So, so June is the person I've known the longest.
She's the person I met in camp, and fortunately we
I think she's the only one through all these years
someone that I met in camp that we have stayed
friendly with. And we lived in different parts of the
United States for many for most of our lives until
(45:52):
the last few years.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
You know, Oh, that's lovely. Maybe we should develop like
a like a road trip movie just the two of you,
and you can go back and visit everywhere to Kyo
lived and it's just a road trip adventure, a little film.
And Louie is kind of a thing, all right. We
talked about Peter Sellers. I was also I know, you
did the Vagina mog monologues, Evensler's Vagina Monologues, you did
(46:15):
that as well. I mean, you've done legendary pieces and
worked with legendary people. Are there any particular.
Speaker 7 (46:24):
Because at the time I didn't know that they were,
you know, like legends or anything. They're just the people
that I enjoyed working with and who I respected well.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
So having worked with so many greats that in history,
looking back, we now say, wow, yeah, these were these
were landmark pieces, and these were people that really made
their mark. What was it that you maybe looked for
in a collaborator or or that you most enjoyed in
(46:57):
a collaboration with someone?
Speaker 7 (47:00):
What I what I enjoyed in the collaboration is when
someone had that same feeling of you're working to create
something to you don't want to be standing out. Then
I don't think that's good at all to have one
person been the star, the standout, you know.
Speaker 6 (47:21):
I wanted it.
Speaker 7 (47:22):
To be more like a collaboration of everyone working together
to make it seem, to try to make it as
real as possible.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Right right, Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 7 (47:33):
I think I was one of the one of the
most wonderful directors with Peter Sellers that I don't know
that I had a chance to work with.
Speaker 6 (47:42):
I mean, he is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
For many years, you've been involved with East West Players,
which is, you know, I think one of the real
cultural pillars of this city. But of course it has
nationwide importance as well. When you think about your years
with the East West Players, what makes you feel really
(48:10):
good about your involvement.
Speaker 7 (48:13):
I I just and so pleased that there were some
of the leaders who were so strong to collaborate together,
to work. You have to work together to make it
work to and so it's not just like one person
standing out and doing it. It's you have to have
(48:35):
a group saying, let's do this together. I'm not going
to be the star of this whole group. Let's And
I think that's really why it worked, because they, a
small group got together, a community of oglity, community of artists.
And I'm very grateful for them.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Yeah, and I'm sure they're very grateful for you. You've done
a lot of TV and voice work, but I think
your first big screen movie might have been Dad with
Jack Lemon. Do you remember this? Yes? And I think
you had scenes with Jack Lemon. I think you played
(49:17):
his nurse in that.
Speaker 6 (49:19):
Yes, But isn't that funny? I don't really remember.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Do you remember anything about There was a movie you
did called Showdown in Little Tokyo.
Speaker 7 (49:28):
I remember the title, I remember, I remember, but I
don't remember any part of it.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Brandon Lee was one of the stars of it, Bruce
Lee's son, and this was just before he died tragically
on making another movie.
Speaker 7 (49:43):
I remember, I don't remember anything specific. I remember that
he was enjoyed of boulderby Bud that it was a
wonderful working time for me. It was it made my
heart feel good to yea, to be connected with them.
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Oh that's sweet.
Speaker 6 (50:03):
Be part of it.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
You've been in huge hits like the Pirates of the
Caribbean movie, and your makeup in that is like so
much fun. Your character I in the.
Speaker 6 (50:17):
Makeup is they did they do a great job.
Speaker 2 (50:21):
Do you remember if it was fun to make that,
because you know it looks fun from when you're watching it,
But I could imagine it could also be really grueling.
Speaker 7 (50:30):
No, I remember it as pleasurable. Oh, enjoyable. I don't
have any bad feeling when I think of that.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
And why you say grueling is not because anybody wasn't
nice to work with. But you know, just the environment.
You're out in boats and ocean and all these, you know,
elements that are difficult to control, so that can take
a while. But do you think your experience in the
theater teaches you to roll with the punches more when
(51:00):
you are on a film, maybe where it's not the
most controlled environment.
Speaker 7 (51:04):
To accept things as usually happen. I don't know if
it teaches you when I think of you know, times
when I have to be disciplined and be careful and everything.
I don't know that it's one specific theater or movies.
(51:25):
I just think it's life.
Speaker 2 (51:27):
It's just life and building up the experiences and the
wisdom from it. Yeah. You worked with Brad Pitt in
a movie called Moneyball. Yes, And I love this movie.
And one of the things that I love about it
is that Brad Pitt, who is arguably the most famous
(51:49):
person on the planet, certainly one of the most recognizable people.
You go everyone anywhere. You could go to any country
and they would go, oh, that's Brad Pitt. But somehow
I'm watching this movie and I'm actually seeing the guy
that runs the Oakland A's I stop seeing Brad Pitt
at some point. It's so real, but not with makeup
(52:12):
or prosthetics or anything. It's just an actor so dropping
into the reality and everyone around him. So I just
believe everything.
Speaker 6 (52:23):
I respect him as an actor. I think he just
every day. I agree with you.
Speaker 7 (52:28):
I love watching him because he is whatever he's playing,
that's who he.
Speaker 2 (52:33):
Is, and you play his assistant in that and you
have some great interactions with him. But it's one of
the things that I love the most about storytelling for
the screen or the stage is that magic of chemistry
that can't be planned. But when you see it, as
(52:55):
I experience in this movie with you and Brad Pitt,
it's like, oh, yeah, she's been his right hand man
for lack of a editor forever forever. Like you just
had this interaction, this way of interacting. You probably just
met Brad Pitt.
Speaker 6 (53:12):
Yeah, we're doing a scene.
Speaker 7 (53:14):
It's so interesting here you're sometimes it's supposed to be
so close to one another emotion. It's like you're just
meeting and then you're going right into the park, you know.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
And yet I believed that the two of you had
worked together for ever, and it's I mean, that's the
real magic of it. And so I had to let
you know that's That's one of those movies where I
just I tell everybody, like you want to know what
acting looks like. This is what acting looks like.
Speaker 6 (53:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
Do you have any particular favorites of things that you've done?
Speaker 6 (53:48):
Everything I do I'm just crazy about at that moment.
I love it.
Speaker 7 (53:54):
I'm happy and grateful and I love acting and I
developed a love of acting. When I think about it,
it's all because I was in a concentration camp during
World War Two. Otherwise I would have been a farmer's
daughter living on some small farm in a small town
(54:17):
in California if I had never learned about acting and
had that pleasure of acting. I don't think you understand
it until you actually are involved in doing shows and plays.
And we were, you know, June and I were. We
work together so often. I think it's hard to try
(54:43):
to explain what that feeling is unless you had it.
But I developed a love for theater so early. I
was what ten eleven twelve when we were in camp,
and that's where my love of theater and acting began.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
I want to close by asking you about two phrases,
two terms that I've seen you use before, and I
was hoping you could help me understand them better. One
is and I'm sure I'm going to mispronounce it, so
please forgive me. But Chikata Ganta, it can't be helped.
(55:23):
It can't be helped.
Speaker 6 (55:24):
She got the gunny.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
We may have been talking about this a little bit
when I asked you, is it your you know, what
is it that helps you roll with the punches when
things may be are going well on a production. How
did you how did you learn this? How did you
learn this philosophy?
Speaker 6 (55:45):
I don't know that.
Speaker 7 (55:46):
I remember hearing my mother used it a lot, I
guess as a child, and so it was something I
figured she got the good eye. It can't be helped.
This is the way things are, and so we have
to learn to accept it, live with it.
Speaker 6 (56:02):
Got good eye.
Speaker 2 (56:04):
And what about this word common?
Speaker 6 (56:07):
Common? Bear up?
Speaker 2 (56:11):
You bear up? I've heard you say, to bear something
with dignity?
Speaker 7 (56:19):
Yes, yes, I mean people can go on to tirades
and have just be terrible and dreadful and mean or something.
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
It's just sitting here with you right now, having seen
you from Afar before, admired you from Afar, this word
dignity really applies to you. You're very You carry yourself
with such innate dignity.
Speaker 6 (56:48):
I believe I didn't know that. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
What does what does dignity mean to you? What does that?
Speaker 6 (56:56):
What does it mean to me?
Speaker 2 (56:58):
Yeah? What is it to be dignified?
Speaker 7 (57:02):
I guess growing up? Also, I never really wanted to
bring any shame to my family, to my sisters, to
my mother, to my father. Anything I did it is
also a reflection for them, and somehow that was always
with me. Just it's not just just me. I represent
(57:28):
more than just me, Yes, I think just somehow when
I think of my mother and how she acted and
how she always was, it was she influenced.
Speaker 6 (57:44):
Me a great deal.
Speaker 7 (57:45):
I'm the fourth daughter of my father Kyukuro and my
mother Kinko at the keda.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
And the and and their name, the family name, the surname.
Speaker 6 (57:57):
And my family name is.
Speaker 7 (58:01):
And I never met another Subouchi in the United States
ts U b O u c Hi Subouchi, and a
lot of times Japanese have the same last name or
similar but I have never ever met another.
Speaker 2 (58:21):
Subouchi anything else.
Speaker 7 (58:22):
June Juna is my oldest friend, met because of our
love of theater.
Speaker 6 (58:29):
Right.
Speaker 2 (58:31):
She's also probably the youngest at heart too, maybe your
oldest friend, but youngest at heart with the same age.
Speaker 6 (58:38):
Right, Yeah, I'm I'm ninety two.
Speaker 7 (58:41):
Yeah, she's one month.
Speaker 6 (58:45):
In November, I will be ninety three. Yeah, so I
one month. She's younger than me by one month.
Speaker 2 (58:52):
Remember when I said that you're young at heart, because
this is exactly how little kids are about their age.
I'm one monthful, are you gonna start counting in half
now it's my half.
Speaker 7 (59:06):
Birthday, and so she has to listen to me because
I'm the old we're the.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
Elder one, right, she will bring shame upon her friendship
if she does not.
Speaker 6 (59:19):
She has to listen to me.
Speaker 2 (59:20):
Remember, come on, remember that.
Speaker 7 (59:23):
No, I feel very fortunate that we've had this friendship
for so.
Speaker 2 (59:27):
Long and you're just getting started.
Speaker 6 (59:31):
We still have a long way to go.
Speaker 2 (59:33):
Yeah, we're taking the show on the road. That's what
I like to think. All right, thank you both so.
Speaker 6 (59:37):
Much, no complaints and no regrets.
Speaker 5 (59:46):
I still believe in chasing dreamss and placing bets, but
I have learned that all you give is all you get,
so give it all you've got. I had my share,
(01:00:09):
I drank my fill, and even though I'm satisfied, I'm
hungry stoop to see what's down another road, beyond a.
Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Hill, and do it all again.
Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Belated spoiler alert
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