Jeff Pearlman and his Tupac Book

We talk to best-selling author, Jeff Pearlman about his new book Only God Can Judge Me the Many Lives of Tupac Shakur. It's incredible what Jeff learned and his process for researching the book. We also do the headlines, Trump destroys the Whitehouse, and Fisch returns to share all the joy. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Yeah, it is supposed to be nine thirty on a

(00:32):
Thursday night and you were tuned into Beltwegh Radio and
beyond which Kenny one only thing.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
If this is tip tat now get ready, we're gonna
We're gonna do this.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
You see if I.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
Can see if I still can.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Do it right, I've this song.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, it's the same song I'm tip with me is
fish and together that makes us?

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Don't do it?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Lemon eggs?

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Okay, good good, It's so funny.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
I went back and listen to so many of the
of those old ones to like figure out which ones
I hadn't used. I've used every combination I could think of,
so I just had to pick one.

Speaker 5 (01:08):
I'm really glad you brought that bit back. But it's
good you'd be back on the show. Really excited.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
We're very happy to have you. Also, uh tes, who
are you?

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Buddy? You just got to know that this ship is
still the same, all.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Right, And there's another phase you're watching because this is
radio and people watch radio.

Speaker 4 (01:29):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
That's Jeff, Hi, Jeff, are you doing?

Speaker 6 (01:34):
How's life? So?

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, this is a special edition of Chipchat. It's special
because Fish is back and also he's going to help
us talk to Jeff Pearlman, who has a new book
out about Tupac of all things. Oh, you got your
copy already.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
I've been reading it, Brot.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
I don't have a word with Bezos.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
Your local books, Barnes and your local big chain, you
know whatever. You can get the book by the books,
local books, local books.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
I couldn't get out. I've got never mind. All right,
So yeah, already today this is a maximum co host show,
which means I'm gonna do less than usual. Uh for
the first little bit, We're gonna let everybody else do
all the talking. And then after we talked to Jeff,
well have the headlines and some other stuff, and you know,
all of the things. So you want to do the word,

(02:29):
you want to just get right back right into the interview.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
I think we should jump straight into the interview. That's
what let's do it. Let's do the interview show, all right.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
I'm gonna do my one part, which is this this
cool intro that I wrote.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
I'm super proud of.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Jeff Prowlman is a writer who has written for Sports
Illustrated Newsday and as a columnist for ESPN, amongst many
other things like Joey Flacco. He is a blue Hen,
and unlike Joey Flacco, he has written a whole lot
of books, including biographies of Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Walter Payton.
Just to round it out, He's also written about sports
dynasties like The Stupid Cowboys and the Showtime Lakers, which

(03:05):
was made into an HBO series, Winning Time. He's also
has a blog and it appears all the time on
various podcasts and in this case on the Live radio show,
where we are going to ask him about his new
book about well known sports figure Tupac, which is called
Only God Can Judge Me The Many Lives of Tupac Shakur,

(03:25):
Jeff Perlman, and his new book Welcome to Chip Chat.

Speaker 6 (03:31):
I just want to say you mentioned you mentioned Joe Flacco.
So I've written eleven books, and Flacco, I think has
played for eight or nine NFL teams, and I feel
like I'm trying to stay ahead of my fellow Bluehen,
but it's getting close, getting very I didn't see the
Bengals twist coming, so neither Mike Tomlin.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
He's like Mike Tomlin's all furious about some sort of
like Ohio conspiracy against him in the division or something
like that.

Speaker 7 (04:00):
He's always been He's always been weary of Fleck. He's
always that's always been his thing.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, because he's a bluehead, because he's the terrifying.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
Football powerhouse of Delaware.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Okay, so before we get into this, we do want
to say that we have some very qualified people here
uh to ask you about these things. Fish is a
musician and has done documentary work and those all kinds
of things. Tz is a mc musician also and reads
a million books. And I am none of those things.

(04:34):
I'm a failed musician and I don't know how to read.
So I am grateful that you chose to come talk
to us first amongst all of your other options. But
you know, why did you choose me as opposed to
these other two very qualified people.

Speaker 6 (04:50):
You're better looking, great, exactly.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
Looking.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Always go to the That's all I end up on Levatard.

Speaker 4 (04:59):
There I go. All right, smart.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Guys, take it away, Jef.

Speaker 5 (05:04):
I literally came out of Chipchat retirement just just to
talk to you. I've been following your career for a
long time now. I'm a Mets fan from New York
as well, so I first you know, became aware of
your work way back I think two thousand and four,
I think your first book, if I'm not mistaken, The
Bad Guys Won.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
About the eighty six Mets.

Speaker 5 (05:21):
I've read that one multiple times, so it's been very
cool to you know, really just follow your career and
see all the success you've had. So let's just jump
right into this. I know years ago you were being
interviewed and you were asked, you know, what would be
your dream topic in the future, and even back then
you said, Tupac. And here I am holding the book

(05:41):
in my hands. It's a reality. So you know why
I was Tupac a dream topic all this time.

Speaker 6 (05:47):
First of all, I don't think I've ever felt more
satisfied seeing my book, Like even like I was driving
somewhere today, I had the book in the passenger seat.
And when you have like a dream and you you know,
like maybe it was my first My first book meant
a lot. The US book meant a lot. I mean
they all mean a lot, but this one it's just
really unlikely, you know, It's just unlike and you know,
the La Times did a story about it today and

(06:08):
the whole theme was like the unlikeliness of this guy
writing a two five book, and I'm very satisfied by that.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
I am.

Speaker 6 (06:14):
I'm a hip hop fan. I've said this a few times,
but it's true. I'm like the cliche if there were
a movie where it's like the White the small white town,
the class of three hundred and thirty graduating in nineteen
ninety and there are two black kids in the class.
I'm the white kid, and John Powell, one of the
two black kids in my class, is my best friend.
The whole town is listening to Aerosmith and Rolling Stones

(06:36):
and White Snake and all that crap, and my friend
introduces me to the first song really was Black Steel
in the Hour of Cast by Public Enemy. I listened
to it and I'm just like, whoa what? And then
I'm listening to Heavy d and the Boys and Big
Daddy Kane. And one of the funny moments actually was
as a senior in high school, I was listening to
this song called I Get the Job Done by Big
Daddy Kane over and over and over again, and I thought,

(06:59):
I'm going to bring this to the igh school dance,
and They're gonna play it at the dance right in
the cafeteria in the high school and I bring my
copy of A Big Daddy about the Big Daddy can't
see the tape, and I tell the DJ, can you
play this song? Can you play this song? Everyone's gonna
love it? And he puts it on. I swear to God,
he puts it on and people are dancing, and I
would say thirty seconds in the dance floor just starts

(07:20):
to vanish, and by the end it is an apt
empty dance floor. And it reminds me of this scene
in Back to the Future where Michael J. Fox plays
a guitar and everyone just is looking at him, and
he says, your kids are gonna love it. And I
bet if I went back to my son now they're
all listening to Kendrick Lamar and Drake and j Cole.
It's just time. So I always loved hip hop. I
love Tupac. I think is a mystique galore. I think

(07:44):
there's so much mythology about him, but mythology doesn't always
mean truth. I think there are a lot in YouTube
on hip hop. YouTube now is big, and it's a
lot of like paying for stories, and when you're paying
for stories, there's a good question whether how much of
it is true or not? So I just I don't know.
Can you guys hear me clearly about.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
We're just wrapping listening. That's so.

Speaker 6 (08:09):
I just wanted to write a true book about a
guy I really found fascinating and figure out what his
life was and do my best. You know, it's a
weird choice. I'm a white sports writer. I understand it's
unconventional and the criticism of it is kind of fair.
I get it. I have to explain myself. I get it.
But I think at the end of the day, I
hope reporting is reporting and if you bust your ass,
maybe you can do it justice.

Speaker 5 (08:30):
So you talked about that, and that's kind of my
next question on that, guys that Yeah, so you talked
about being a sports writer, being an outsider. What are
some of the barriers that you had to face to
gain some trust and you know the fact that you uh,
you know, have been involved with some of the HBO
series Did that help?

Speaker 4 (08:50):
Did that?

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Did it hurt?

Speaker 5 (08:51):
Did have a lot of skepticism and sort of the
second part of that question is, you know, I know
you spoke to so many people to interviewed so many
people for this book. I think over six hundred and
fifty if I'm not mistaken. Members of the Chakora family.
Are you still in touch with them now that the
book's out? Are they supportive?

Speaker 4 (09:10):
You know?

Speaker 3 (09:10):
How is that whole process? How'd that whole process work
out for you?

Speaker 6 (09:13):
Yeah? So first, I certainly all right. So I had
a podcast maybe five months ago, four months ago. Why
it was a two and a half hour podcast about
my life and my career, and they asked about Tupac
and I kind of flippingly, you know, like this is
gonna sound dumb. I think it's actually true. You're so
used to talking sports, and sports is like man, Justin

(09:35):
Field sucks or Bo Jackson is great, and you just
kind of it's all hyperbole and stretching. And they asked
me something about Tubac, and I was like, you know,
Tubac couldn't fight a good he couldn't fight, and he
couldn't you know, fire a gun and he wasn't good
with a gun, and blah blah. I said this minute
long at most things, and I never thought of it again,
and he got clipped and wound up in social media,
and I got eviscerated, absolutely eviscerated. I'd never been called

(09:59):
a cultural vulture or in my life, and I've written
about obviously athletes from all walks of life. I've Walter
Payton desegregating the schools in Mississippi, Barry Bond's growing up,
the son of a baseball player who faced all kinds
of racism, Bobby Bonds and willing to all that stuff.
And it was a really important moment for me, like
a really important moment for me where I was like,

(10:19):
wait a second, Like Tupac is not Bo Jackson, this
isn't Walter Payton. This is a cultural icon. It's different
than a sports icon. In fact, it's even different than
writing about Stevie Wonder or Lionel Ritchie or pick your
motown singer. It's different. Tubac represents something and the last
thing people need are the flip comments of a white
sports writer talking about Tupac. And it was important. It

(10:42):
was important that it happened then instead of now, right,
So that was big when I was working on the book.
The interesting thing was I expected a barrier, and maybe
there are people who didn't talk to me because of it,
But two things I had going for me that I
really I didn't anticipate. Number one, win Time was on
during the time I was working in some of the

(11:02):
book and that just carried some weight. Oh if you
guys seen the HBO show Winning Time, Yeah, that's my book.
WHOA what that's your book? That show? I love that show.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
That was good.

Speaker 6 (11:10):
Number two is like, in a way, someone said this
to me the other day, not being a hip hop
insider means I have no allegiances and there's no like,
there's not a track record of me slamming Tupac, slamming
Biggie talking about my love of this rapper. Oh, this
guy used to write for Double XL. That magazine sucks.
I'm more of a source none of that. Zero literally zero.

(11:32):
And usually I would just go into a setting and say,
like oftentimes, like I went to Murine City SAT Time
with some of the crack dealers zero crack dealers in
Murne City, and I'd be like, look, man, I'm a
white guy from rural New York. My dad was a
CPA named Stanley. Like, we have nothing in common. You know,
I understand that I didn't worry about violence, my family
wasn't addicted to crack. But you will never have anyone

(11:55):
who is more interested in what you have to say
than me? And I mean that sincerely every time I
said it, you will never have anyone more interested than me.
And my dad, who died during the course of this
book and was the biggest impact of my life and
my career, used to always say to me, what is
the number one thing people like talking about? And the
answer is themselves? And if you're willing to listen to
people talk about themselves, you can go a long way.

(12:17):
So that for me was big. I don't remember what
part two of your question was, which is why I
try not to ask part two questions, even though I
always does.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
Is the Chaka family the estate?

Speaker 6 (12:26):
Are they on board the estate? I would say probably not,
But the estate it's really interesting. It's actually interesting. I
haven't talked about this, but a lot of people saying
like they'll be like culture vulture, You like, how does
the estate feel about it? Culture? Culture? And the funny
thing is you don't want to see what the people
running this course state actually look like, because I'm just

(12:49):
saying like, it's not what you think. And the person
I was most the person who helped me the most,
I would say there were a couple there were really
three women women were the most important people in two
life in my opinion. One was his sister, set who
lives in New Orleans, who I didn't think was going
to speak to me and did. And I have as
much respect for setro A Chakur as anyone I've met,

(13:10):
and she was a tough interview, but she was important.
Number two was yasmine Fula, who is the mom of
Yaki from the Outlaws and really served as two box
business manager and also a former Black panther, and she
was a guiding light for me. And the third was
Leilah Steinberg, who kind of helped discover Tupac when he
was a kid in Marin City and sort of took

(13:30):
her under his wing, and she was like a talent developer.
And those three people have been invaluable, and I've been
in communication with set. Set told me she's probably not
going to read the book. And it wasn't like because
you're an asshole. It was because I've lived set to
traumatic life and reliving all the things my brother went
through is not something I really want to endure again,
which I obviously respect. The other two women have read

(13:51):
the book and they told me they both really loved it,
so that meant something to me. I get emotional talking
about it. I'm not talking about this. This is online
to any book I've written in my life, any book
into my life, much harder, much more emotional, much sodder.

Speaker 4 (14:03):
This show's none for making people cry, but not usually
because they're happy or anything. They're listening to us.

Speaker 6 (14:09):
As my son would say, you're crying because you're a
little bit.

Speaker 8 (14:14):
I don't think that's what we're known for either, But sure, Jeff,
I guess, right, Jeff, you've kind of already answered kind
of a question I had just around, Like I saw
some of the I guess pushback around.

Speaker 7 (14:28):
Oh all right, a white dude is talking about Tupac,
and I think Tupac is one of those ones because, like,
let's be honest, Tupac fans might be zealous man next
to like Kobe's like, and I say that in like
the most caring way, like they care so much about
the story. But then to the journalism part, I mean,
it's not like you're just going and like making stuff up.
You're like you're going, you're talking to people, and I guess,

(14:50):
how have you been able to communicate? And do you
do you worry about communicating that As a journalist, you say, Hey,
I'm just gonna go and report, write the news. But
I think this is different than I feel like Kobe
might be the only other person I feel like that
folks feel that way. But I think hip hop is
one of those weird things where it's like, oh, we
want to protect this only only black folk kind of
can like tell that story. And I don't necessarily think

(15:11):
that's true, right, I think you can do this, you
can do the research on that, but like, do you
worry about that at all? Or is it just kind
of like no, I'm going to go figure this out.
I'm going to write the book I want to write.

Speaker 6 (15:21):
It's a great, great, great question, because the truth of
the matter is, there's some stuff in this book that
if it were like like people will say, like, you're
just trying to sell books, You're just trying to make
money off money off of Tupac. The truth of the
matter is, and I really do believe this. If I really,
quote unquote was just trying to make money off of Tupac,
I would write a love letter to Tupac, like that's

(15:41):
why we do I would write this, He's the you know,
he was the greatest guy ever, and anything bad you've
heard about him, you're misunderstanding. It's really it. Did I
break up on you? Guys? You said there?

Speaker 4 (15:51):
You said you really?

Speaker 6 (15:55):
Okay, you can hear me. I'm saying, like, if I
wanted to write, if I wrote a love letter to Tupac,
he would be a much more sellable book. You know,
I think we all have a choice. Journalists have a choice,
especially in this day and age. You can stay true
to who you are as a journalist and realize that
it's going to be ugly to a certain degree, especially

(16:16):
when you're writing about an iconic figure. I've had this
with Walter Payton, and I had this with Kobe Bryant
when I wrote The Ing Circus, Like it is hard
to write about an icon truthfully, it just is. But
I always think at the end of the day, like
what are you trying to do here? Like how do
you write a book about MLK or JFK and not
write about any of their infidelities? How do you do that?
How do you write a book about Malcolm X and

(16:37):
not write about him as a numbers runner to Troy Red?
Like how do you can't how do you write about
Marilyn Monroe and not write about her depression? Like on
and on and on. We're either going to write books
that tell you the history of a person and the
highs and the lows, and the lefts and the right,
or we're just going to give everyone hand jobs. Like
that's just the truth of the matter. And for me personally,

(16:59):
as a guy who loves journalism, I just don't want
to do that. And I want to say one more
thing that I think is really tough nowadays, especially with books.
You guys, I'll see this. We digest everything nowadays in
twenty second segments, and that is often it. You get
twenty seconds in a TikTok video or an Instagram feed.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Yeah he froze again. Oh we got back twenty seconds.
Yeah we die. We digest from sayings in twenty seconds.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah he was talking.

Speaker 6 (17:29):
To you like this, like exactly here, yeah, right, exactly.
You basically get twenty seconds. Everything is reduced to twenty seconds, right,
Everything is reduced to twenty seconds. So like again, like
the thing I said about Tupac with the with the
guns and fights, that was reduced. That was a long
conversation that was reduced to twenty seconds. It's much harder

(17:53):
to tell someone read a book. Here's a four hundred
page book. You will learn a lot, but you have
to read the four hundred page book. The attentions fans anymore,
all of us are. It's been damaged, you know. So
it's much harder. But I just at the end of
the day, I'm a Nashville, Tennessee and sports illustrated produced
journalist more than anything else, and I try to keep
that going. I really do. So I'm a dinosaur in

(18:16):
no way.

Speaker 7 (18:16):
I wonder though, as as these things get shorter and shorter,
will like these books will live forever? Will people pine
for like sitting down and actually like, will it become
too much? Because I don't think humans are supposed to
take in the information the way we do.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
I think we probably should be sitting down and reading books. Obviously,
people are gonna.

Speaker 7 (18:34):
Bash me for saying that there, but I think people,
I think there's still a segment of society that respects
the craft and wants to do that and sits down.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
So I mean, I think a lot of people.

Speaker 6 (18:44):
I think a lot of people buy books nowadays with
the intention of reading them, and I think they make
amazing furniture and you know, coffee table placements. It's just
for all of us, myself included. It's just harder. Our
brains have been rewired to digest information in a different way.
And the thing, I agree with you one hundred percent.
And also like, it's nice to sit down with a
book and not do anything else and turn your phone

(19:07):
off and kick back for an half hour twenty minutes.
You just feel good about yourself, you just do, especially
a printed book. And that's not me trying to sell
a book. I'm just saying there's something nice about reading
a book. Yeah, there just is there?

Speaker 4 (19:21):
Shut up. No, I just don't know how to read.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
I'm not I'm not a book person, but I am
a journalism person and I think that, which is crazy.

Speaker 4 (19:30):
What no get both?

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Hey, I'll read like a sixteen page article in the
New Yorker?

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Is that the same thing? Do I get credit for that?

Speaker 7 (19:39):
If I used to bring books all the time into
we used to go in the studio and I would
prop up a book every every show and prop up
a book.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
And he would just look at me like, why are
you always reading?

Speaker 7 (19:47):
I know audiobooks, audiobooks count Oh that that is what
is reading this, It count is reading.

Speaker 6 (19:55):
My wife and I have this debate all the time
because she loves audiobooks. Can you say I read a
book after you listen to book? I say yes, But
does it actually count as reading literally reading? Obviously no,
it's not the same thing. But you can say you
read the book.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
I'm because you've consumed.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
But I will tell you about this.

Speaker 4 (20:15):
We'll send you that so you can. You can fight
with your wife about it later when you come back,
you tell us how that fight goes, because we really
are interested.

Speaker 6 (20:24):
I will tell you one thing that was interesting about
the Tupac book. So everyone says to me, are you
going to do you narrate your books? Do you narrate
your books?

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Right?

Speaker 6 (20:31):
And I like narrating the books. I've only done one.
There's a Bad Guy's one, and I did it recently
because it wasn't an audiobook when it came out and
I really enjoyed it. They're like, are you going to
narrate the Tupac book. I was like, there is no
way in hell I'm narrating this Tupac book. When the
N word appears about seven hundred.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Come on, all this talk about journalist just being accepted
for the subject matter. You can't do it.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
He just can't know.

Speaker 6 (20:58):
We were like, understand, do this, I have the option.
I was like, no fucking way.

Speaker 4 (21:03):
No, no, no, that's a trick.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Don't fall for that.

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Buddy.

Speaker 5 (21:07):
Well you talked about you know, if you were just
hading this for the money grab, it would have been
a love letter to Tupac. So I'm two chapters in now,
and the depth of what I'm reading is really incredible.
I mean, I feel like I've been going from apartment
to apartment to apartment in the late seventies earlies eighties
New York City through these first two chapters and and

(21:28):
really just feeling immersed in what that life and that
scene was back then. So you know, I can't wait
for I get to the end of the book. I wish
I have had a chance to read all of it,
and I had a chance to talk to you. But like,
throughout the course of this reporting, you know what has
been maybe the most surprising thing that you learned, or
like maybe what has changed the most about your perception

(21:50):
about Tupac. I mean, you could probably write a whole
book about Tupac's mother alone, just from what I'm reading,
an incredible life that she had. You know, that's something
I knew nothing about, so I can't imagine what has
changed for you along the way.

Speaker 6 (22:05):
So, first of all, I think a Fanie Shakur should
be taught in history classes across America. And one of
the things that just especially work on this book. I've
been saying NonStop, every white person in America should have
the privilege of working on a Tupac book. And I
really mean that, like and a Fane Shakor in particular,
I mean Black Panther, pregnant with Tupac, twenty one years old,

(22:26):
being sheltered from jail to a courthouse every day for
a famous court case called the Panther twenty one trial,
where twenty one members of the Black Panthers were accused
of plotting to blow up posts place in New York
and New Jersey. Turns down the court appointed attorney, even
though she doesn't even have a high school diploma, represents
herself again pregnant with Tupac, wins. It's remarkable. Her being

(22:51):
is remarkable. Also, her later becoming a crack addict is remarkable,
and then her going and getting clean is remarkable. And
the way she used her some NodD in good ways
is remarkable, and the way she raised him is remarko.
It's an amazing, amazing story. Yeah, And I think for me,
like many people, I honestly, if you had said to
me not that long ago, who was Tupaca, I'd talk
about thug life, and I talk about it. I get

(23:11):
around and I might say he was sensitive the Brenda's
got a baby as a sensitive artist. At first, I
didn't know about the trauma that guy went through. I
didn't know his life. His life is a sad, freaking life.
It was a sad freaking life from soup to nuts,
sad tragedy. He's in Clinton Correctional Facility and his family's
asking him for money. Everywhere he's at being asked for money.

(23:32):
He watches his mom. Imagine watching your mom. Imagine imagine
watching picture of whoever the biggest hero in your guys'
lives are. Okay, you have this person, you hold them
up here, and maybe they're disappointing sometimes right. His mom,
who is his hero, a single mom who raised him
Black Panther, becomes a crack addict and kicks him out
of the house because he wants her to get off
crack right, and he's homeless because his hero is a

(23:53):
crack addict in Morin City. Like, the trauma that guy
faced is insane, and people who like I feel like
people do this a lot, in particular with black athletes
and black musicians, where they'll be like, well, this piss,
Why would you blow this? You had all this blah
blah blah, How could you blow your money? How could
you blame Like the fucking trauma this guy had to
overcome and you never fully overcome it. That's a thing.

(24:16):
It haunts you, It plagues you, It informs you. If
you listen to a lot of his music, it is
informed by the very trauma that he experienced. And I
just think he didn't think he was going to live
to twenty He made it to twenty five, and while
his death was in inanity that is freaking ridiculous and
pathetic and sad. It's kind of a miracle he made
it to twenty five and was able to create the
art that he created.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
I think we have asked artists this question several times,
and I think maybe this is a good way to
ask you this. But it does seem like trauma and
pain often I'm not going to say are prerequisites, but
they certainly do help in producing really incredible art. And

(24:58):
especially if you think about as you were mentioning that,
you know, his mom was so smart that with everything
stacked against her, still was able to do all of
these amazing things.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
You know, you do have to wonder.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
Like if these people who are who achieved these great
things in spite of all the stuff thrown at them,
if they didn't have that stuff thrown at them, how
much more could they have achieved? Or would they not
have achieved as deep and sensitive and powerful stuff if
they hadn't had all that thrown at them?

Speaker 4 (25:32):
What do you think?

Speaker 6 (25:34):
Oh? No, I heard you know what's funny. I heard
the great musician Gene Simmons of Kiss talk about someone
asked him why he doesn't create why the Kiss music
wasn't as good as he used to be, and he's like,
because we weren't hungry anymore. Like you're hungry when you're young,
and you want it when you're young, and you have
this thing when you're young, and like there's a reason
most rappers, in fact, I would even include Jay z

(25:56):
Eminem Nos guys who were still considered great artists aren't
as great as they were. It's because they all have
nice houses and they all drive nice cars, and they
know where the meals coming at night, and when you
don't know where your food's coming from a night, and
when you're living with the rats. I mean, Tubac was
making he was doing like Juice when he played Bishop,
and Juice like that wasn't pretend like that was him

(26:18):
playing Bishop was informed by being in Marin City with
a crack addicted mother, not quite sure where he was
going to live like that, was informed by that, So
he had that in him. So I don't think if
Tupac had been born and raised in Scarsdale, New York,
to a mom and a dad and a dog and
a BMW in the driveway, he can't. You couldn't be Toopac.

(26:39):
He had to go through what he went through. The
sad part is to go through it. You live through
the hell that you go through, Like that's the unfortunate
part of it, but it makes you who you are.
So everything he spit, people always say, like and in
way when I did that stupid interview, in a way,
I implied this, which I'm mortified by. Like he was
not a gangster, but he was a warrior. Like, that's
the best way. Leila Steinberg said that to me recently.

(26:59):
She's like, he wasn't a gangster, but he was a warrior.
He was just he fought and he fought and he fought,
and I just think ultimately his pain made him remarkable.

Speaker 4 (27:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Is that a parallel between music and sports like that
hunger and that drive and all that.

Speaker 6 (27:15):
Of course, of course there's a I was on Weirdly
this is gonna be a name drop and I don't
know him except for today. I was on Marshawn Lynch's
podcast today. Oh yeah, he's on our show all the time. Wow,
it's funny. He mentioned you guys. Oh actually it's awkward.
I told him I was doing your show and he
was like, ugh, don't And I was like, yo, man,

(27:35):
what I have.

Speaker 7 (27:36):
A great marsha On Lynch store. I can't tell on
the air, but I will tell folks all there.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
He was a delight.

Speaker 6 (27:41):
First of all, he was a.

Speaker 4 (27:42):
Great person, so good and.

Speaker 6 (27:47):
But he but he was talking about like he's a
kid from Oakland, he's poor, he needs to eat. You
get in the NFL. You're running straight at everybody because
you fucking need to eat, right, You need to eat
and you've never had anything, and nothing's ever been given
to you. You win a couple of Super Bowls, you
have a nice car, you have a nice house, you
have the right investor who invest your money. You're not
going to be as hungry. Just a reality. You're not

(28:08):
gonna be as hungry. It happens with athletes, happens artists.
Happens to writers. Thing serious about that happens to writers. Like,
I'm still really hungry. I don't know why, but I'm
still really hungry to write great stuff. But a lot
of it. The guys I came up with, most are gone,
Most stopped writing. Most just decided to do something else,
which is cool. But like you know, you do stuff
for a while and you just lose a little bit
of your ass. There's no doubt about it, you.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
Know, Jeff, can I speak one question in here?

Speaker 7 (28:32):
One question I've always had about poc right is do
you think he understood his power to drive the people?
Because I do look at kind of when he goes
and moves into death row right, and like did he
understand like the the gravitational pull he had of the
people to guide them wherever he wanted. Like I feel
like he could guide not just like hip hop fans,

(28:53):
but I think no matter what he did, his voice
was that powerful. Do you think he understood understood that
or was it kind of like I'm in the moment,
I'm making music right well, living life very fast at
the moment, Like I've always wondered that about him.

Speaker 4 (29:05):
Did you find it in the writing.

Speaker 6 (29:07):
That's a great question, Like a great great question. I've
not been asked that before you win the pony Man.
That was really good, real, that's a great question. Okay.
I think he did understand the power of his voice.
I think he saw himself as a leader. I'll tell
you a quick story. Tupac was in a group called
Thug Life, and basically it was him and a bunch
of his guys. He was helping along. It's actually a

(29:27):
great album Thug Life and Nobody Bought and they were
on a brief tour with a hip hop group called
Lords of the Underground. And Lords of the Undergrounds lead
hip hop artist was a guy named do It All
dupre dupre Kelly, and I interviewed dupre Kelly for the book,
and he told me. One time. They were all in
Orlando for a show on this little tour and he
and Tupac got in an argument and Jebrey Kelly goes

(29:49):
back to his hotel room and he gets to knock
on a door a few minutes later and he looks
through the people and it's Tupac and he calls his
other guys in Lords of the Underground. He's like, yo,
pox at the door, What does he want? I don't know.
I'm just letting you know he's here just in case.
He opens the door, two bocks, like you ain't gonna
let me in. He's like all right, and he has
two forties with him. He hands a forty and he
says sit down, and Tubac says to him and dupre

(30:12):
Kelly's like twenty three years old. It's just out of
Shaw University. He's like, listen, I don't like how you
talk to me. That's not cool. He's like, but I
love that you stood up for your boys. And he's like,
we as a people need to stand up for each other.
It's fucking more important than anything. And he goes on
his long die dop and at one point he goes,
we need to represent our communities. You need to stay
in New Jersey and represent New Jersey. I need to

(30:32):
represent Oakland. Qube needs to represent LA and the other
thing we need to do. We need to start making laws.
And to b Kelly's like, what do you mean? And
he's like, we need to be legislators. We need to
run for office. We need to be making the laws.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
All right.

Speaker 6 (30:46):
And here's the craziest part. You know what dupre Kelly
does for a living now, the city council these in
New York, New Jersey. And when I interviewed him, he
said that talk from Tupac was the stirring moment. Okay,
did two boc the power is voice one?

Speaker 4 (31:01):
Yes.

Speaker 6 (31:02):
However, it's a little bit of an educated reporting guest.
When he was at Clinton Correction Facility, he just really
wanted to get out of Clinton correshle facility. And here
comes Suge Knight, who's a manipulative man and a guy
who was like giving money to tubacx mom and like
playing the game, sending Tupac a fifteen thousand dollars check
all this shit. So he bails him out. While all

(31:23):
of a sudden, who's Tubac have to be loyal to?
From death Row and what is death Row giving him cars, money, apartment?
And there was a moment in the book he was
in a movie Gang Related with Jim Belushi and he's
filming Gang Related and they filmed it in La And
one day Suge Knight shows up on the set mid
filming with a new car for Tupac. Is a gift.

(31:43):
He said, Yo, Pac, I got you this car. Blah
blah blah, congrats, big up. Some Tubac hugs him whole thing.
Suge Knight leaves. Tubac turns to a woman working on
the film and goes up, I don't own this car, Like,
what do you mean? He's like, it's least everything I own.
Everything I have is lead. I don't know anything. I
don't know my apartment, I don't know my house. I
own nothing. And when Tubac died he had less than

(32:05):
two hundred thousand dollars, like he didn't have ship. And
he was a powerful man with a powerful voice who
I think was overtaken a little bit by death Row,
felt indebted to Suge Knight, felt a little trap by
Suge Knight, and bought in a little too much. And
there's a guy Mob James, who grew up with Sugar
in Coompton and was a part of the death Row family.
And when I interviewed him, he got very emotional and

(32:26):
he was like, Suge Knight sold this guy on the
gangster lifestyle. He's like and Tupac was not a gangster,
and he sold him on it and sold him on it,
and Tupac bought it, and that's why he's dead today.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
You know, you've probably already answered this, like one of
the things I was going to ask you.

Speaker 3 (32:44):
You know, I know you're a blind Melon fan. Okay.

Speaker 5 (32:46):
I did a deep dive on Shannon who and I
worked on that documentary.

Speaker 6 (32:50):
Loved it.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
He saw that that's cool.

Speaker 6 (32:53):
Oh, come on, of course, and I interviewed him. What's
his name in the photographer Danny.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:58):
I flipped the flipped around the book and read that
part as well. You know, one of the things Glenn
Graham always would say about Shannon was that if he
was alive today, he'd be dead, you know, because his
flame just shone too bright, and you know, he just
was a spirit that wasn't meant to live. And it's
kind of you know what you said, It's amazing that
Tupac lived to twenty five. Obviously different set of circumstances there,

(33:19):
but you know, all of the violence and sort of
impulsiveness in Tupac's life, it seemed like he wasn't he
wasn't really destined to be with us for too long.

Speaker 3 (33:29):
It's I won't.

Speaker 6 (33:31):
Say, I don't want to say to that. I do
agree technically, right, I do agree. And I've thought about
this a lot because that's a very common thought, like, oh,
he wouldn't be alive, but it's not a guarantee, you
know what I mean? Like there are would Snoop Dogg?
Would I guess Snoop Dogg when he was on for murder?

Speaker 4 (33:47):
Snoop dog story is insane?

Speaker 6 (33:49):
Insane?

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Yeah these days?

Speaker 6 (33:52):
Yeah, yeah, And like there are a lot of guys
from back in the day who actually are alive. Would
Iced Tea have been alive? I mean Ice Tea, you know,
body count. I don't know, Like it is, yes.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
Selling car warranties.

Speaker 6 (34:05):
He's not just live, he's lit, and he's like, would
you have said to me, guys t would have this
great acting career, you know, this prolonged acting or no,
So you don't know for sure. I do agree with you.
I do think I thought of Shannon Huon a couple
of times, and obviously Kirk Covane a couple of times,
that this idea that, like, you just live so fast,
so young, so impulsively, how long can that go for?

(34:26):
And that's true and it's generally true, but I do
think people like it is possible Shannon Hoon rehab finally
would have kicked in. He would have been clean, he
would have been a songwriter, and today he'd be writing
songs for artists, or writing his own songs, or touring
as an OLDIESI who the who knows? So I don't know.
I don't know for sure, but that's it's an interesting thought.

Speaker 5 (34:41):
Did you did you notice that your book came out
on the thirtieth anniversary of Shannon's death that I don't know.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
It was a coincidence but not action. Yeah, no, I
planned it that way.

Speaker 6 (34:50):
You know. I thought to myself, you know, what the
world I'm going to do this The Tupac book on
Shannon Huon's death Anniversity.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Mind Mellan Tupac fan overlap is huge. It's like that
then diagrams just one circle.

Speaker 6 (35:04):
I do love Shannon who anyway? If I could write
a Shannon Bhoon book can be profitable. I just don't
think it would sell just being honest, as much as
I love Blind Melon.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
Sure, but I think yeah, but I love to do
it on our our label. You know, the Chipcat Publishing
House would be glad to support you.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
Man, You've got like about six or seven dollars I had.

Speaker 6 (35:25):
I still think change is one of the great songs
of all time.

Speaker 5 (35:27):
Of course, Yeah, yeah, for sure. Now I can't I know,
I don't know how much time we have left with you.
I can't let you go. I know you've told the
story already and another interviewer two. But the Brenda's Got
a Baby story, it's in the intro of the book. Yes,
it's incredible, if you don't mind even just giving us
a condensed version. It's just really incredible what you were
able to do.

Speaker 6 (35:46):
When you say, have I told her a time or two?
Would say, it's a little bit more than a time
or two at this point. But you know what, it
is a great story. It's actually a great story. Okay,
the song Brenda's Got a Baby. Tupac is filming Juice.
It's nineteen ninety one. He's in New York, City. It's
his first movie. When he was growing up with Fenny Shakur,
his mom was very adamant about his kids reading the

(36:06):
newspaper and him reading the newspapers his kid. He's One
day he's standing outside his trailer. He gets in New
York Daily News. There's an article Cries in the Night.
It's about a twelve year old girl in house public
housing in Brooklyn, raped by her cousin, gives birth on
the bathroom floor, wraps a baby up into plastic bag.
There was a baby down the trash sheet. Tubac reads this,

(36:28):
He's like, I need a few minutes, goes into his trailer,
starts writing, Brenda's got a baby, but Brenda's barely got
a brain. In a damn shame. The girl can hardly
spell her name. This hard hitting song give us nineteen
years old writing this stuff. You know, writes a song
and that's it comes out. When I was interviewing Layla
Steinberg for this book, She's like, we've always wondered whether

(36:50):
it even was a baby or whatever. And I was like, well,
we can find this out. I have a friend from
my high school in Mayopac, New York, is an amazing
genealogist named Michelle Sooley. I reached out to her the baby.
She gets me a phone number. One day She's like,
I think this is him? And I text awkwardly. My
name is Jeff Ferrolman. I'm a writer. I'm doing a
Tupac book. By any chance, is this you? And I

(37:12):
tatched like the article? I mean it's a clumsy and
awkward by any chance? Or you the one whose mom
threw her down the trash heep when she was twelve
years old after she was ready by a cousin who's
probably your uncle. Just wondering like that, you know, normal,
this is normal. Probably no one answers our phones anymore.
So what are you gonna do? Like no one answers
our phones anymore? If it's a strange number anyway, he

(37:33):
writes back. He lives in Las Vegas. He affirms it's him.
I drive out to Las Vegas. We meet a Starbucks.
His name is Davon Hodge. He's the best. It's become
a like a I don't meet make that many friends
off of books. He's definitely become a friend and someone
I really.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
I'm still here the worst time to freeze.

Speaker 6 (37:53):
Yeah, all right, So Davon becomes a friend. But I
go out to Las Vegas. I sit down with him
and basically he tells me he was adopted by a
parent after he was thrown down the trash sheep. He's
adopted by a mom and dad. They moved to Las Vegas.
They're in Las Vegas. His adoptive parents died somewhat recently.
He does an ancestry dot com sert spits into a thing.
It comes back Brooklyn, Brooklyn, Brooklyn, all these relatives Brooklyn, Brooklyn.

(38:16):
He reach his olt, he winds up. They all live
in the Noble draw LEI public housing unit where he
was born and throwing down the trash heet. He goes
back to Brooklyn. He meets all these relatives. It's like
Antoine Fisher. It's like the hugs and the kissing and
the food and grandma and uncle. It's amazing. How do
you feel about Tupac, Davon, I love Chupac. How do
you feel about the song Brenda's Got a Baby? I

(38:37):
love that song. We think it might be about you.
What they have this inclination for whatever reason, because of
the timing and everything, this song is about you, all right?
He hasn't seen his mom. She threwn down the trash heet.
I say to Michelle Sooley, the greatest wizard of genealogists ever,
is there any way you can we can find the mom.

(38:58):
I don't know, I'll try. She has his No. She
reaches out one day, She basically says, my name is
Michelle Suley. I'm working with an author named Jeff Perlan
about a Tupac book. This is kind of random. But
did you have a baby when you were twelve years old?
She starts screaming and crying immediately into the phone. Oh
my god, Oh my god, Oh my god. What do
you know? Do you know we know where your son is?

Speaker 4 (39:15):
We do?

Speaker 6 (39:16):
Oh my god, Oh my god. I've been looking for
him for decades. I got to get home to Newark,
New Jersey. I got to get home to Newark. Well
where are you now? I'm at a concert? What concert?
Read Hot Chili Peppers? Where are they playing? Las Vegas?
Your son lives in Vegas and they meet that night
night and it's the best. It's not my fine, honestly, god,

(39:36):
it is a genealogist. But I at least had the
inclination that go to high score with the really good
genealogists and together we wove this and now it's the
opening of my book.

Speaker 9 (39:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (39:46):
No, and it's a great, such a powerful opening to
the book. And like I said, I heard you tell
that story before, and just to think that if Tupac
hadn't written that song all those years ago, and if
you hadn't done what you did.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Then that would have never that reunion would have never happened.
So that is just really incredible.

Speaker 6 (40:04):
It's uh, it's slightly more important to me than recreating
the drunk flight back from Houston after the eighty six match.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
Yes, I just saw that actually, you know on your
YouTube channel sports Chronicles with Sports Chronicles with Jeff Perlman.

Speaker 6 (40:19):
Is that right?

Speaker 5 (40:20):
So yeah, that's you can check out Jeff's YouTube channel there,
press Box Chronicles, press Box Chronicles.

Speaker 6 (40:25):
That's right, that's right.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
Out of the six hundred and fifty two people that
you interviewed, did you try to talk to Madonna?

Speaker 6 (40:36):
I did? I did not get very far. I actual
didn't get Jada Jada Pinkett where we went to? I schorth.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
I tried that too, did into that relationship?

Speaker 5 (40:44):
Thought it a superficial or you know, do you think
there was a real relationship there between Donna or Jada Madonna.

Speaker 6 (40:50):
With Madonna, yeah, thank you're breaking up?

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yes with Madonna.

Speaker 6 (40:55):
Yes, So it's funny. He wrote her a very impassionate her,
a very passionate letter from prison, basically breaking up with
her and explaining how it just didn't it wouldn't strike
his fans correctly as a black man to be dating
Madonna and all the things. And he wrote like this,
I mean, his letters are always very intense, and he
writes his letter and Madonna's like okay, and just moved on.

(41:17):
But they were like in a kind of relationship for
a while. But Tupac's relationships with Rare exception were and
this isn't a doggy a Tupac at all, but like
he was young, like they were sexual. I met with
Lisa Lisa from Lisa Lisa Culch Jam and she was
awesome and I was like, so did you date Tupac?
And she's like, I wouldn't call it dated, That's what

(41:39):
she said. I wouldn't call it dated. And there was
a lot of that with Tupac, you know.

Speaker 5 (41:43):
So well, Jeff, as we wind down here, I got
one more one or two more questions for you, you know,
so kind of fast forwarding towards the end of Tupac's life, Well,
can you tell us about that night in Vegas? And also,
you know, maybe the I know you interviewed the police
officer who was maybe the first on the scene after
he was shot. It was an interesting interaction there as well.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Did the FBI do it?

Speaker 6 (42:07):
No? Okay, I only have like two minutes left, but
I'll go this quick, just because I gotta don't hate me, Okay.
A couple of interesting things about us at the end
of his life. Number one, the only reason you can
make an argument, so Mike, it was a Mike Tyson
brew Seldom fight at the MGM grant. It was supposed
to be three months earlier. Had it been three months earlier,
Tupac would not have been able to go because he

(42:28):
was in the middle of filming a movie. It was
only postponed because Don King didn't think Mike Tyson was ready,
so he made up some excuse. It all comes back
to Don King basically. Number two, I just don't and
I know there are different people disagree with me, and
that's cool, but for my reporting, like he's in the
MGM casino. After the fight, he's uh named Trayvon Lane,

(42:50):
who's who's blood affiliated mob Pyroot. A few weeks earlier,
he had had an altercation with a member of the
Crips named Orlando Anderson, who he'd ripped off his medallion
at a foot locker at a nearby mall. They're in
the MGM grand there's Orlando Anderson who took my chain.

(43:11):
That's a guy right there. He Paco's Tobacco's which one?

Speaker 4 (43:17):
He goes? Right there?

Speaker 6 (43:17):
Tebac walks up, says you from the south south Side
Compton Crips punches him in the face. They all stomp
on on Orlando Anderson. Later that night, Orlan Erson is
driving around looking for Tupac with Keith d his uncle.
And I interviewed one of Orland Eerson's closest friends, and
what he said to me, to paraphrase, is how's he

(43:38):
going to go back to Compton having been publicly beat
up by a rapper, not a gang banger, but a rapper, Like,
how do you survive that? How do you recover from that?
Image wise? And I think it's an interesting point that
I made. So then later you know, obviously Tubac is
shot at the intersection of Famingo Cobo. He's sugars at
the wheel. They drive off the end up stopping and

(44:00):
Vegas Police generally the members of the La Las Vegas
Police were and hated Tyson fights because they drew just
a crazy amount of gang bangers from LA hated it
limited uh staff. One guy is a police officer on
a bike, so he literally bikes up to the scene
and he sees this and he can tell what it is,
and and somehow two box door opens and Tupac kind

(44:22):
of slumps out and he's clearly been shot, and the
cop walks up to him and he starts asking him questions,
and according to him, two Bocks last words to him
were fuck you. And those have been the last words
of two Bucks life or fuck you, which I have
to say, in that almost famous kind of way, is
much better than I am a golden God. Two Bocks
last words fuck you, much better than like I wish
I had some breakfast herero you know, it was very

(44:43):
two Bucky fuck you to a cop.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
Yeah. Wow, incredible story.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
The book is the only God can judge me.

Speaker 5 (44:50):
The many lives of Tupacs record, Jeff, we can't thank
you enough for your time.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
It's been a real thrill to talk to.

Speaker 4 (44:56):
It's a bucks head, right, Baker Mayfield is the m
v P.

Speaker 6 (45:01):
Right, I think so.

Speaker 4 (45:03):
He probably gonna if.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Evans didn't break his collar bone, I think it would
look a lot more.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
That does matter. I don't think it's gonna matter.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
Baker Baker playmaker man, he's that guy.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
Is incredible. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
We'll definitely get back. Thank you so much for spending
some time.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Legends, go get his booked and learn everything there is
to know about TUPAC. You don't have to interview six
hundred and fifty two people. You can just listen to
or read Jeff's book and then you'll know. Okay, thank you, Jeff.
We're gonna take a break. We'll be back with the
second half of the show. We really appreciate it, all right,
So we're gonna take a break. We'll be right back.
You are listening to Chipchat on Beltweagh Radio.

Speaker 4 (45:41):
MBA swims breaks it late too. Yeah, we're doing that.
That's great.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
I didn't have a cut up yet.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
Do you feel like slapping any particular people.

Speaker 9 (46:09):
Today about.

Speaker 10 (47:06):
About about about about church in.

Speaker 11 (47:52):
All right, welcome back to Chip Chad here on Bowie

(48:29):
Radio and beyond nine years Chip with me is Tez maybe.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
And Fish there's Fish.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
All right, you decided to stick around. Thank you. We
appreciate that.

Speaker 7 (48:42):
Yeah, even though, Yeah, I just love that.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
You got where he left off.

Speaker 4 (48:52):
I was gross hear.

Speaker 7 (48:56):
Yeah, Oh my god, I'm so glad that it was.
And Jeff was not amused in the beginning. I think
I feel like we kind.

Speaker 4 (49:03):
Of won them over.

Speaker 9 (49:04):
I hope. So.

Speaker 5 (49:04):
I don't know how many times you guys have New
York Times bestsellers on the show, but it's always good
to keep them waiting for a while.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
Several times, but they're not always. Yeah, everybody waits the rest.
Come on, this is a very serious comedy show. What
are you talking about?

Speaker 12 (49:22):
I blame the I blame candidate's forums. I blame voting process.
This is ridiculous.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
Were voting I had?

Speaker 12 (49:32):
I had a city of candidate's forums.

Speaker 4 (49:35):
So there's oh so in democracy?

Speaker 13 (49:40):
Yeah yeah, after the clip I posted out, how you
kind of brady me? How I want to direct the
democracy at a legit republic as we're supposedly living in.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Listen your your last week's effort or two weeks AGO's
effort to at like appealing to the var on Trump's election.
I there's just nothing funnier to me. But uh, anyway, well,
it's good to be back.

Speaker 5 (50:08):
I was immediately squirming out of my chair for the
first five minutes.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
So great. And if anybody's listening right, here's the thing
that you might have just listened to the first part
of the show and think, oh, well, Fish is just
this brilliant journalist who likes to ask all these questions
about you know, two important writers and stuff. He actually
used to be a co host of the show for years,

(50:32):
tolerated me for a long time, never came mis prepared.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
One time when I was actually on the show, Yo, I.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
Just want to go behind the scenes.

Speaker 7 (50:41):
Like Fish's notes inside the document I was reading them
to that I was like, oh, this shit is like serious,
and I in mine has asked him how mine like
like the word. It's just like, oh you I'll figure
it out. I'll figure out how it's moved and once
we get there.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
But you got you got props for giving him the
best question.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
You know.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Yeah, that's just talent. That's just talent. I don't know,
you don't prep for that.

Speaker 4 (51:14):
Is gonna be the new Terry Gross when she finally retires.
Clearly not.

Speaker 7 (51:19):
I always tell people on the show because your name
is on it, like I'm invokeing Levatar. But it's weird
that me being the Cuban is studios where he's Jewish
and you're really more Lebatar.

Speaker 4 (51:34):
I'm the Cuban.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
We'll hold on to that Cuban stuff and the Italian
stuff come up in a little lot, all right, So Fish,
we have a this is like a slightly varied version
on our old segment with the rundown. This is just
headlines though, So, uh, do you want to try your
hand at your old gig and and do some headlines

(51:59):
with us?

Speaker 3 (51:59):
I mean, I'm here, I'm here.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
So we're just gonna go, uh in in order, uh,
And we'll just go down the list and so we'll
I think, since the screens are all different for everybody,
we'll go we'll go Fish, test Chip and in that order.
I had not counted ahead. I don't know, So we'll just.

Speaker 7 (52:19):
Be You don't like reading, now, just talk to now
you're talking about your anti reading?

Speaker 4 (52:26):
All right?

Speaker 3 (52:26):
So where am I starting after this? This?

Speaker 6 (52:29):
This?

Speaker 9 (52:29):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (52:30):
Where it says after picking a fight.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
All right, all right, here we go people.

Speaker 4 (52:33):
All right.

Speaker 5 (52:33):
So after picking a fight with a major major coffee
producer uh in Brazil, Trump threatened Columbian x driving shares
of red Bull through the roof. Speaking of coffee, Maxwell
is changing their name of their flagship brand from house
to apartment because they are completely out of ideas.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
Wait these like one at a time? Yeah, everyone like
you do not want me to read this whole thing?

Speaker 2 (53:02):
No, No, it's supposed to be like weekend.

Speaker 4 (53:04):
Let's yeah.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
So, after picking a fight with a major coffee producer
in Brazil, Trump has now threatened Columbia, which is driving
shares of red Bull through the roof.

Speaker 4 (53:18):
There you go, all right.

Speaker 7 (53:19):
Speaking of coffee, Maxwell is changing the name of their
flagship Brown Brian from house to apartment because they're completely
out of ideas.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
Trump's continued to tax on vessels in the Caribbean has
gone about as well as his handling of the Epstein files,
So well, in fact, that he's recently expanded to attacking
boats in the Pacific.

Speaker 5 (53:39):
Noted opponent of random wars and neighbor everyone Loves to Tackle,
Rand Paul voiced opposition to Trump's extra judicial drone strikes.
So if you live in Kentucky, watch out for drone strikes.

Speaker 2 (53:51):
Come now, you got it there it is.

Speaker 7 (53:55):
Millions of people came out last weekend to prost Trump
and his policies republic and to cuse the protesters of
being anti Semitic and also funded by the dirty globalist
jew George Soros.

Speaker 4 (54:07):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
Sorros denied the allegations and bought a yacht to prove
that he hadn't blown all his cash on inflatable frog costumes.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
Glad you read that one.

Speaker 5 (54:15):
DHS shock troops continued their fight for the streets of Portland.
So far they have apprehended five unicorns, three t rexes,
and fifteen frogs. The streets are far safer tonight.

Speaker 4 (54:27):
Yeah, that's right, of course, lot safer.

Speaker 7 (54:30):
A panel for the Knife Circuit ruled that Trump could
invade Portland with National Guard troops sending sales of bulletproof
frog costumes soaring.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Speaking of invading cities, Trump said he is calling off
his invasion of San Francisco because his friends told him
that the mayor was doing a good job.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
This, of course, was hard to believe, as Trump has
no friends.

Speaker 5 (54:51):
Treub also floated the idea of giving tomahawks to Ukraine,
but after a phone call with Putin, decided instead to
have them cooked, well done and served.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
Catch up.

Speaker 4 (55:00):
That's a steak joke that I laughed at that when
I read it, it made me laugh.

Speaker 7 (55:06):
Trump's staff misunderstood his uh euphemism and actually started tearing
down the side of the White House with construction equipment
this week.

Speaker 4 (55:14):
Worse still, the gear that they're using is made in Sweden.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Yeah, it's off all the After destroying half of the
White House, Trump's next renovation project will be his neck
vagina getting a nip and talk.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
I'm gonna preface this by saying I did not write
any of these.

Speaker 4 (55:31):
Of course you did.

Speaker 6 (55:33):
All.

Speaker 5 (55:34):
Japan has a new prime minister, and this time it's
a woman, So get ready for prices in the pante
vending machines to plummet.

Speaker 7 (55:40):
Yes, Christ, I see why you're the disclaimer judge this case,
calling it vindictive and uh facially flawed.

Speaker 4 (55:54):
I say it might facially flawed flawed.

Speaker 7 (55:57):
Christ Bridger that one, but given photos of people at
mar A Lago, facially flowed his writing.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Trump's wheelhouse yep over the weekend waffle house hostess and
part time lawyer prosecuting Comy's case, Lindsay Halligan use signaled
to text a reporter a bunch of grand jury information
and then tried to claim that it was off the record.

Speaker 4 (56:16):
Days later, she has been promoted to Assistant Secretary of War.
There we go.

Speaker 5 (56:21):
Trump says he has ink to deal with Australians for
access to their supply of rare earth metals, but what
he actually got was a lifetime supply of square wombat poop.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
That's true, they poop cubes. That's a real thing.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
You can look it up. Kind of barf a little bit.
The shutdown.

Speaker 7 (56:39):
The shutdown has caused all kinds of problems, including that
TSA and air traffic controllers aren't getting paid.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
Food donations have popped up airports.

Speaker 7 (56:54):
So now you can finally give away the second half
of your forty dollars bag of eminems.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
That's right, forty dollars. Okay, sorry.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Kids all over the country are yelling six seven and
causing grown up millennials a massive headache as we try
to figure out whether that phrase is on fleek or
tots what ebbs.

Speaker 5 (57:16):
You guys know you missed my horrible, horrible Trump impression.
We do miss thesurely missed.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
I'm sure we have to rely.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
On Tez's, which is even worse.

Speaker 3 (57:25):
You wor so bad my Italian can't wait. Over the weekend,
the Marines use live rounds to shoot over a highway
in California. While JD.

Speaker 5 (57:35):
Vance was there celebrating something. As expected, there was a
misfire and shrapnel sprayed over the I five. No people
were harmed, but several couches were heavily damaged, not by
the shrapnel, of course, but by Vance.

Speaker 4 (57:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (57:48):
Vance was in Israel this week to help shore up
the shaky cease fire deal, and while he was there,
the Parliament voted to annex the West Bank, showing that
even in Israel JD. Vance gets about as much respect
as he shows his sofa.

Speaker 4 (58:01):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
A car crashed into the security gates at the White
House late Tuesday night. There was no threat to the president,
and Pete Hegseth was driven to another bar by his wife.

Speaker 5 (58:12):
The much anticipated summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin
was called off this week after a phone call between
Lil Marco and Sergey Lvrov. In a statement, the State
Department said they didn't want to be Russian into anything prematurely.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Oh god, all right, right, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
All right.

Speaker 7 (58:34):
In Virginia, the race for the Lieutenant governor is heating
up as Republican John Reid held.

Speaker 4 (58:39):
A fake debate with an AI version of his opponent.
How do you pronounce this person?

Speaker 7 (58:43):
Zala Gazala Hashman? Who outside who outside observers said, wonder debate.
You may remember John read as GOP candidate who is
openly gay and has refused to delete his only fans account,
to which Brian is a subscriber.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
It also broke this week, which this didn't make the
press time, that his Tumblr account keeps reposting Nazi porn
his Tumblr. He has a tumbler and he keeps using
it and he's reposting Nazi porn.

Speaker 4 (59:17):
The Tumblr servers are still interesting.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
Apparently did not know? Yeah, all right. In sports, the
World Series is set between the defending champion Dodgers and
the Canadian team that went six seven and six against
the Orioles. If the Jays win, they will have to
pay a twenty five percent tariff to bring home their trophy.
If the Dodgers win, Trump has promised to bomb San Francio.

Speaker 5 (59:41):
That's not funny, and well, baseball is heading toward the
end of their season. EPL is hitting their stride as
Liverpool drops their third in a row. To check's notes, man,
you early reports are fans attacking their manager, engaging in
what some have called slot shaming.

Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
Yes, that's good, that's that's kind of that's really good.
I'll give you that. Now.

Speaker 7 (01:00:06):
Fall is finally fully upon us, making American women insufferable
with their lattes and causing all dads to begin competitively
bragging about their leaf blowers.

Speaker 4 (01:00:16):
They better be electric them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Ah, dads in cities with bands on gafflee blowers can
take solace in knowing that it's okay to be gay.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
Now I didn't even read ahead of that.

Speaker 5 (01:00:32):
And speaking of fall colors, Metro retired the last of
the old two thousand series trains, marking the end of
an era of orange and brown seats and working trains.

Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Yes, ah, but don't be so sure of orange and
brown seats because it's still Metro. Are they coming back?
Well for people sometimes?

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Okay, that's different. All right, those are the headlines. What
do you think of the headlines?

Speaker 4 (01:00:57):
Guys? Great? I think you know sufficiently, you know, insufferable.

Speaker 7 (01:01:08):
I want to go to the rundown or I'm still
laughing from The Lady Show, Jeff Pearlman, we a fucking waiting.

Speaker 4 (01:01:23):
Sorry, all right, I will collect myself. Yes, let's go
into the rundown. We're gonna just.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
Go straight to the rundown. You'll get yourself together, all right.
Now we've come to the part of the show called
the rundown. This is where we tell you about some stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
That's going on in the news.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
If we were real professionals, it would sound a little
something like.

Speaker 14 (01:01:40):
This man shut your ass down, of course from Beltway
Radio and beyond in Washington, d C. I'm emmy nominated
TV news man and just bona fide sexual beast Chase
Scott Smith. And this is the part of the show
where I tell some stuff about the well maybe not me,
but somebody else is gonna tell some stuff about what's
happen in the news.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
So what's going on in the news?

Speaker 6 (01:02:02):
Fellas?

Speaker 4 (01:02:03):
Thanks Jay? All right?

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
This first one is about you know, there's another Virginia
like I live in the real Virginia. And then there's
a new one that you know, they broke off right
a while ago. But it's called West Virginia. They get
to have senators, which I was shocked to find out about,
and one of them is called Jim Justice, which is
a funny name.

Speaker 4 (01:02:25):
He used to be their governor. He has a lot
of money, sort of, and he famously also coached high
school basketball until he became a senator. Even while he
was governor, he was still like coaching. I think it
was like freshman girls high school basketball. Because there's like
six people in West Virginia, Like even the governor has
to do something. So one of the funny or.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Maybe interesting things about Jim Justice is that he commutes
from West by God to Washington on a regular basis,
on a daily basis, or whenever he needs to be here.
Right But unlike say Joe Biden, who used to commute
as a Senator from Delaware on the Amtrak, Jim Justice
does it on a lear Jet and he flies from

(01:03:11):
West Virginia. Han he flies from West Virginia to National
on his private jet. It's a something like thirty minute flight.
It's just enough time to get up in the air
and get back down, wouldn't you know it. The IRS
has recently decided to take a look at his finances.

(01:03:32):
The IRS recently filed notice of a federal tax lean
against Jim Justice of West Virginia, the latest example of
the ongoing financial troubles that have trailed the former governor,
members of his family, and their network of businesses over
the years, which of course is mining.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
One of the documents from the IRS obtained by Politico,
who contributed this story, list.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Justice and his wife Kathy is having a total balance
of how much eight million dollars in unpaid assessments, which
in West Virginia money is like a trillion dollars.

Speaker 4 (01:04:05):
That's a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Eight million dollars goes really.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
Far in West BA because save the state.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Yeah, it's the whole budget. So now it's a poor state, right,
And how does this guy have this much money that
he owes eight million dollars? And he apparently like forgot
to pay taxes in twenty and nine, twenty seventeen, twenty
twenty two.

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
He wasn't senator yet, but he was a governor.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
And he basically has been telling everybody, this will all
just work itself out, It'll be fine. He has no answer,
he's no excuse or anything like that. But you know,
flying around on the Lyrigjet's probably what tipped them off, Like,
how can you afford to do this on a senator salary?

Speaker 4 (01:04:44):
I feel like another senator probably dropped the fucking dime on.

Speaker 7 (01:04:48):
Like imagine you're like, oh, if you're traveling up and
down the East Coast from somewhere, or maybe you're flying
like out of national on. You know, some of them
get on freaking regular like commercial. Maybe most of them,
most of them do. You're like, wait, hold on, who
who was giving him the lead jet?

Speaker 6 (01:05:06):
What?

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
It's also important to note that while the government has
been shut down and the Senate can't pass a budget
and nobody can do anything, Jim Justice did throw a
birthday party in his office for his dog that was
apparently very well attended. And everybody likes the dog. She's

(01:05:26):
a little bulldog. Her name is little Girl, and everybody
likes her. But that so, you know, sensitive to the
needs of the people. M okay, now, tes, we need
your help on this story. One of the things that
we know is that every time people like say me
who is Jewish says hey, Republicans keep saying things that

(01:05:49):
are Nazi things because they do or anytime somebody who
is black, like say Tes says, hey, these guys keep
saying racist stuff.

Speaker 6 (01:05:57):
Because they do.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
They all complain and go, we're not racists, we're not nazi.
Stop calling us that. You just don't agree with us,
and we're like, no, no, no, we don't agree with you.
And also you keep saying the Nazi things. Case in
point being recently there was reporting about the young Republicans
who were Texas Ride where they were using every racial slur.

Speaker 4 (01:06:22):
In the book. They were taking everybody out too.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Yeah. Jadie Vance waved it off as saying, oh, well,
these are just the kids. Turns out they're all thirty five, right, they.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
Have kids of their own, the future leaders.

Speaker 2 (01:06:35):
Yeah, some of them already working for senators and stuff. Uh,
enter one, mister Paul.

Speaker 4 (01:06:42):
And Grace yet Paulie, Paulie, my man, Paulie.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Yeah, paul Paulie. What what kids mob nickname tez mom.

Speaker 4 (01:06:52):
I haven't thought about that, give anything. What is paul nickname?
Pauli Grassi, Pauli Grossi, pul talker. No, guy Paulie the racist,
Well he is that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:05):
He's also apparently a rapist because he's fighting those charges.
I don't know he was he initially sort of like
pops up on the radar because he's helping in the
doge stuff and he's helping in the administration to like
end government. And then he gets nominated for the position
of the head of the Office of the Special Council,
which is not what it sounds like.

Speaker 4 (01:07:27):
It's basically in.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
Charge of government whistleblowers and protecting them in case any
of them come forward. And he had a confirmation hearing
that was scheduled for today but didn't happen. Why didn't it.

Speaker 7 (01:07:39):
Happen, Well, because Paulie in Gracia was out here saying
some really like you know, I think when Thune doesn't
think you can get nominated at that point, then you probably.

Speaker 4 (01:07:53):
Have tanked the nomination.

Speaker 7 (01:07:54):
But yeah, in that group chat, he said some uh
pretty crazy things. All right, whatever, what are some of
these things that Paulie had to say?

Speaker 9 (01:08:03):
Right?

Speaker 4 (01:08:03):
So the battle quote.

Speaker 7 (01:08:05):
Yeah, I got to quote yeah, really careful now before
I thank you, thank you, thank you for throwing that
out there, right right, So the battle nomine obviously he's
gonna lead the Office Special Counsel. Total group of fellow
young Republicans in the tech chain, Uh, Martin Luther King

(01:08:27):
holidays should be quote tossed into the sudden circle of
hell end quote, and said he.

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
Has quote a Nazi streak end quote.

Speaker 7 (01:08:36):
According to the text chat view by Politico, again its
mentioned he was supposed to be have a hearing.

Speaker 4 (01:08:42):
That hearing is no longer happening, according.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
To which one participant responded, quote Jesus Christ.

Speaker 7 (01:08:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
That's another thing about this is how many people in
the group chat were like, whoa dude.

Speaker 4 (01:08:56):
I want to talk.

Speaker 7 (01:08:56):
I want That's an interesting point at the end of
this that I do want to I want to get right.
Some of the quotes so so using an Italian's slur
for black people. Uh that in grass Road a month earlier.
In the group chat seen by Politico, quote no Muliano
holidays from Kwanza, MLK Day, the Black History Month, the

(01:09:18):
June teeth end quote. Then added quote every single one
of them needs to be eviscerated.

Speaker 4 (01:09:24):
End quote. Well, I break this up. Google Docs was like,
we don't know the word muyan.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
We don't have any suggestions, but we don't think that's
spelled like a real word.

Speaker 4 (01:09:38):
You know.

Speaker 7 (01:09:38):
Look, you know it's a very it's a very popular
popular word for you know the Italians, very very You
might want to clear up that you are Italian. I know, yes,
my father is a quarter of Italian and we usually
made I'm surprised I should have if I was actually
thinking of, uh asking Brian to produce the show, giving
him more content out of tell him throw up a

(01:10:00):
picture of Mike Urrico. But Mike Rico hasn't had a
comment on this yet.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
Look, I'd love to know what he thinks about this
as well.

Speaker 7 (01:10:06):
My fellow a fellow Italian political interview to people in
the chat and granted them an enemity after they expressed
concerns about personal and professional repercussions.

Speaker 4 (01:10:16):
Right double click on the bets.

Speaker 7 (01:10:18):
Everybody in this chat scared shitless that of this shit
got out right because it is a decent amount of
folks that I maybe do feel a certain way about
policy and maybe are like blatantly racist, but they don't
want people to know that they're blatantly racist. Where's the
one quote in here where some dude that's like, Yo,

(01:10:39):
you're gonna be in a private law firm.

Speaker 4 (01:10:41):
Shit lived forever?

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Right while you're digging that up, And I want to say, like,
initially his response was to deny.

Speaker 4 (01:10:50):
This, and he's like, oh no, these texts are manipulated.
They could be out of context.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
And you know, even if the texts are authentic, they're
clearly ran as self deprecating and satirical humor, making fun
of the fact that liberals outlandishly routinely called MAGA supporters Nazis.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
I don't know why we would ever think that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
Why, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
This shit just keeps on happening.

Speaker 2 (01:11:13):
But and he didn't just go after black patties, right, Yes,
later went on to say, never trust a Chinaman or
an Indian, right, And then the VEC did not want
to answer that for whatever. I don't know why he
didn't provide a comment. A month later, discussing why some

(01:11:36):
Republicans feel the Democrats make black people into victims, the
text show in Gracia remarked.

Speaker 4 (01:11:42):
And I am not touching this with a twenty three hole. Well,
I touched on this way. Blacks behaved that way because
that's the natural state. You can't change them.

Speaker 7 (01:11:51):
And quote he then added, according to the chat quote
proof all of Africa is a shithold.

Speaker 4 (01:11:58):
And will always be that way. End quote.

Speaker 7 (01:12:01):
The first term trump you the term shithole countries to
describe some African nations and hate me specifically.

Speaker 4 (01:12:08):
So and like, at several.

Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Points throughout these text chains, people say things like, Paul,
you're coming across as a white nationalist, which is benefiting,
beneficial to nobody. And then he said that defending our
founding isn't white nationalists and yeah, and then he went
on to say things about white people building this country,

(01:12:34):
which Bill O'Reilly already made very clear is definitely how
that went.

Speaker 4 (01:12:37):
But yeah, yeah, here's the quote that you were looking for.
You want to hit him? Yeah, so.

Speaker 7 (01:12:45):
O on, then I missed what oh here it is.
So the comment prompted the same participant to respond. Right
after he's saying that whites build this country, he said, quote,
You're gonna be in private practice one day. This ship
will be around forever, brother, And that's definitely one of
the people who talk to the newspaper.

Speaker 4 (01:13:07):
Holding.

Speaker 15 (01:13:09):
Brother, hold from the from the from the beyond. Oh no,
has the choice words of saying this.

Speaker 2 (01:13:25):
Yeah, I think it is.

Speaker 4 (01:13:29):
It's interesting.

Speaker 7 (01:13:30):
I think the folks who were pushing back against this,
and I also find it funny as an Italian right
as this guy is.

Speaker 4 (01:13:42):
Right, you know, you should real you should look at
the history of Italians in.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
Just like within living memory.

Speaker 7 (01:13:49):
In living memory, and it's but this is the larger thing,
is you know they assimilate to become white. Because I'm
just like, wait, ho, long do you know what?

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
Was there a meeting?

Speaker 4 (01:14:02):
I really want to know when it happens?

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
Yeah, so like was there this like meeting and I'm
assuming it was at a country club where like, you know,
the people whose last names end in something? The third
were like, there seems to be a lot of these
Italians around and what are we going to do about it? Well,
I say we grant them whiteness so they'll be on

(01:14:25):
our side and the other one that's a great.

Speaker 4 (01:14:28):
Idea grand grandie.

Speaker 16 (01:14:31):
And then they're just like call one of them in
here right now, Patricio, go and tell your people that
you've not been granted whiteness, and you can also ship.

Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
On all of the other colored pieces no longer olive.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Did they have that same conversation with for the Irish
or like they.

Speaker 4 (01:14:51):
Snuck in I don't. It's just a very interesting thing
to look at.

Speaker 7 (01:14:56):
That's not to your point living memory to just be
able to fit into white supremacy that way. But no,
it's I found this chat to be very because you know,
it's like, all right, this is how people actually are,
like cool, are we know exactly? And maybe not everybody
in this chatter seriously obviously people are pushing back on that.

Speaker 4 (01:15:15):
But it's not a decent amount of them. Man, it's
they didn't lest, they didn't leave. That's a bridge too far.
I'm out.

Speaker 5 (01:15:23):
Yeah, I don't feel like I remember a time when, like,
if anybody would say something like this in any type
of public forum, it would be pretty you know, uh,
universally panned and condemned, right, But we're just not living
in that timeline any long's over now.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
And Okay, two main thoughts about this one is, for
the love of God, why do these people.

Speaker 4 (01:15:44):
Keep doing things in a recordable fashion? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Stop texting racism or crimes.

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
They could at least tried to use signal so it
was encryption, unless they're.

Speaker 4 (01:15:56):
Lindsay Howigan, in which case she doesn't know how signal works.

Speaker 7 (01:16:00):
And how many people were in this It was like
hundreds of people in this. It wasn't like a few folks, right,
was there a decent amount of people?

Speaker 2 (01:16:06):
This one was smaller the young Republicans one was like
hundredth of the larger one. Okay, So one, why are.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
They criming or racisming in a recordable fashion?

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
And two like, this is the kind of thing where
this is peeling back the curtain a little bit and
we are getting to see how these people talk and
think when they think nobody is looking. And I got
to say, as somebody who looks like me, I have
been in places where people, you know, they do the

(01:16:38):
thing where they look around a little bit before they're
about to say the worst thing, and they kind of
like try to brow you in.

Speaker 4 (01:16:45):
On it, and they're like, you know how they are?
And I'm like, no. And even in those settings where
there is no recorded version of this, it's not in
a text, and I certainly could say nothing and just
carry on with whatever the fuck we're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
I can't mean, no, tell me how they are exactly?

Speaker 4 (01:17:09):
You know, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
However do you mean they are all of this way?

Speaker 4 (01:17:15):
I have never experienced it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
You know, you can kind of throw it back at
him a little bit, and at the very least it
tells them, all right, stop that ship. We're not doing
those jokes around here. Anymore, you got your one in
and shut the fuck up. But this is how they
really are. And so when they get all pissed off
about us calling them Nazis and racists.

Speaker 3 (01:17:36):
It's like, stop doing Nazi shit.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
Yeah, a little bit crazy to say something like this.

Speaker 4 (01:17:44):
Crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
Never once in my life have I ever said anything
you know, equivalent.

Speaker 4 (01:17:52):
I just.

Speaker 2 (01:17:56):
I don't know. It also tells you about who these
people are growing up, and who their parents are and
like how they were raised or anything like that. Yeah,
you know that, like nobody just slapped that out of
them when they were when they were kids.

Speaker 4 (01:18:06):
Like you can't be that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
You just can't do that.

Speaker 7 (01:18:09):
Yeah, And I just say, I mean it's far and
it's like the progress has been made. And I was
just in Nicole Hanna Jones was talking about this just
around like the changes that are happened, like dismantling civil rights.
But the point she made is like, you know, it
hasn't been that long sin this country was just like, oh,
we hate all of these like we hate what obviously
hate black folks, hate immigrants. At this point, whether it's

(01:18:29):
the Irish, the Italians, you're not that far off from that.
And I do think for all the games, we don't
necessarily realize that if they're not enforced, all.

Speaker 4 (01:18:40):
This can come back again, like and it'll it'll come
back in droves. Like I used to work for a
plumbing company that was an Irish owned plumbing company, okay, and.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
They had in their in the office like as a
relic an old sign that said Irish need not apply.
And they were keeping that sort of as a trophy
of like we have overcome this, you know, and and
not only do we get to apply, but we own
the company now, Like that's a physical tangible thing that

(01:19:13):
is that is still not so old that it needs
to be in a museum, and that that really does
carry a lot of weight. And you wouldn't dare catch
anybody in that group participating in any kind of a
group chat like this because they can all remember, you know,
and they know what it's like to be the never
trust insert here. I mean, just get the fuck out

(01:19:36):
of here. Do you want to keep going or do
you want to take a break. Let's keep going, all right,
It's going to be a fast show, all right. This
next segment is called Trump Bullshit, which I guess could
be the new name of our show. Or the name
of our show, the name of the show, and I
was on it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:54):
Yeah, since kind of half the reason I left.

Speaker 5 (01:19:58):
I kind of was just sick of talking about Trump
bullshit well every week, every.

Speaker 2 (01:20:02):
Week, because we're about to need the impression. So at
the end of this little clip here, you're gonna you're
gonna have to be the one.

Speaker 4 (01:20:16):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
So, as I think most people who have been paying
attention to anything, though, the East wing of the White
House is no more. It does not exist anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:20:29):
Today.

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
Yeah, I saw it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
It's gone. Is Congress all right? That's a dumb question.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
Actually, it's quite impressive that it's gone, because, like you know,
I'm in the trades. I'm I'm pretty aware of this.
It's pretty difficult to do that much demolition and removal
that quickly. Like that's a lot of work. So Trump
told everybody was gonna build this ballroom. He's really into
balls for some reason, and he wants to build this

(01:20:59):
giant room for them where he can admire.

Speaker 4 (01:21:01):
I don't know what he does in his ballroom.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
I assume he licks them, sweats with them. I don't
know it cuddles them. Something about balls. So he's been
trying to do this.

Speaker 3 (01:21:11):
And he told everybody that he was gonna like, oh
my lord, yeah, he told.

Speaker 2 (01:21:16):
Everybody that he was going to do this, and it
wasn't going to touch the building, and it wasn't gonna
be like distasteful or mess up anything, and they wouldn't
impact the actual White House at all. But as you know,
he has a lot of trouble telling the truth. And
so over the course of exactly four days, they demolished
the entire east wing in the corridor that connects it

(01:21:38):
to the residents of the White House, and it's just
gone now. So the only like positive thing here is
that we won't have to look at Malania's like blood
trees lining that corridor for Christmas time. But it's and
and here's the thing he says this is none of
this is being paid for with tax payer money. It's
all being paid for by private donors or worse.

Speaker 4 (01:22:00):
I would almost rather our money be used, I wouldlmost.

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Rather than because exactly that this is a vehicle for Griff,
This is a vehicle library or worse, there's no regulation,
there's no procurement, there's no rules about the contractors, whoever's involved,
whether they'll get paid or not.

Speaker 4 (01:22:18):
I kind of doubt.

Speaker 2 (01:22:19):
But like, if you are a I don't know, foreign
government that wants to bribe your way into control of
I don't know, pick a state nobody cares about Idaho.
This is a pretty good way to buy a state,
right You just greased this project with a few hundred
million of that nice free flowing golf money, and you

(01:22:41):
own a fair base in Idaho, which Katar did, so
like fish, can you do the voice.

Speaker 4 (01:22:53):
Right?

Speaker 5 (01:22:53):
On the other side, you have a lot of construction
going on which you might hear periodically.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
Beautiful construction though, beautiful construction.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Yeah, he he and he was gone. He keeps talking
making room.

Speaker 3 (01:23:05):
For the Trump superstore right when you walk in.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
Levitt even told everybody at the press briefing in the
middle of the shutdown that the ballroom is his top priority,
of course, which it does seem to be. Speaking of
his gift shop, have you seen what Gavin Newsom's gift
shop is selling? No, do you want to know what
knee pads? Oh god, he's selling knee pads for all

(01:23:34):
the tech CEOs and congressmen and everybody else.

Speaker 4 (01:23:38):
They are currently sold out. I was listening to.

Speaker 7 (01:23:46):
Jamel Booy talk about and he was just like he
was just talking about this thing, and he made a
great point like no matter, like there's no like affinity
I have like for the building itself right right right,
but I mean side if it is one of the
branches of government. And I think Americans should be appalled
by this, the fact that again he doesn't own the

(01:24:10):
White House, right like the American people own the White House,
American people own the Capitol Building, the American people own
the Supreme Court. In a sense, that might be the
one that's the trick.

Speaker 4 (01:24:23):
That's the one that's a trick very clearly that Harlan
Crow owns. Believe we'll leave the unelected nine out of this.

Speaker 5 (01:24:32):
I also love that as always, the quote that I
just read was said at an event honoring the louis
Louisiana State University and Louisiana State University at s Treveport
baseball teams.

Speaker 3 (01:24:43):
Yeah, completely relevant to the topic at him.

Speaker 4 (01:24:47):
I'm not here to talk about you and your silly
baseball talk about me. No, I think people should be
fucking upset about again because.

Speaker 2 (01:24:59):
Where this is.

Speaker 7 (01:25:02):
Not again not so much the building, but the fact
that the actual like constitution of this country has really
been in a sense just thrown to the side. I'm
not gonna say it's dead, right, but like Congress should
approve any changes to the White House, right, this should
be a formal like it should be something that I

(01:25:23):
saw the Park Services come out and be like, hey, yo,
hold the fuck up, right, we just don't see much
a park Service.

Speaker 2 (01:25:30):
Who was it?

Speaker 6 (01:25:31):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
The Park Service is in charge of administering the White House,
and that runs through the National Capital Planning Authority, which
is in charge of like all the monuments and everything
around here. The problem is that that reports up through
the Park Service, which reports up through Interior, which is
executive branch. And to the question of like should people

(01:25:53):
be appalled? This does seem to be something that has
caught a lot of flack, and Trump has.

Speaker 4 (01:25:58):
Been in damage control. He's been trying to explain why
this is not a big deal and it's totally okay.
And the way I would think of it is, well,
who's gonna have to put it back? You know who's
gonna have to pay to put it back? And it's
gonna be us. It's gonna be the taxpayers.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
We're gonna have to put this back to where it's
supposed to be and how it's supposed to work, and
it is.

Speaker 4 (01:26:19):
That's the sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
That's why when you are the president, your job is
to not fuck up the White House as badly as possible,
because you're a temporary guest and you gotta go. This
does feel like one of the very visceral and easily
attachable visual aspects of the metaphor of destroying the idea

(01:26:41):
of the people's house and all of this, And it's
a thing that is like indelibly burned, and people are gonna.

Speaker 4 (01:26:46):
Look at this and say, oh, this is evidence of
that he doesn't plan to lead.

Speaker 2 (01:26:50):
Why else would he be doing this, damaging this thing
if he doesn't plan to ever leave. Not to mention
that the optics of it looking like a you know,
Kaanafi building a fun despot pallace to himself in the
middle of the goddamn desert.

Speaker 4 (01:27:03):
It just looks stupid. But that's the brand, right And
to the MAGA people, they're all.

Speaker 6 (01:27:09):
In on this.

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
They're all like, Yeah, this is the thing, this is
what the country really needs. Farmers are getting clobbered in
the markets. Yeah, Trump is talking about buying beef from
Argentina to offset the costs because producers are finally getting
a fair price and because their costs have been driven
through the roof by Trump. And that's the pressing issue.

(01:27:35):
But no, the ballroom, that's just showing he's really willing
to use his authority for what's good for this country.
You can't say they're not authoritarian. And also they're using
the authority the most way in the same breath. You
just can't keep doing that.

Speaker 7 (01:27:50):
And I think the media needs to be more like
I don't think they've been forceful enough on this to
say this point of like, this is undemocrat what's going on? Like,
I don't think they framed it. And this, oh he's
tearing up the White House, he's tearing on you. No, no, no,
that's crazy, Like it's insane of what he's doing. And

(01:28:11):
the problem is, again, it's a freaking fire hydrant of
information and there's no way it's hard to even.

Speaker 4 (01:28:18):
Have the expectation that people like, what are they gonna
pick and choose to harv on. But I think this
is a huge story.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
If you think that's a huge story that's undemocratically to
you find out what's going on with the settlement and
the DOJ. So, as you know, Trump was prosecuted by
the DOJ investigated, They went and carried back all the
documents out of his bathroom. He's very sad about that,
and he sued and demanded a settlement from the government

(01:28:46):
from the US government for fucking up his life and
making it miserable. Now, that question of that settlement money
is in front of the Department of Justice, which is
run by Pam Blondie, who belongs to Trump.

Speaker 4 (01:29:00):
As far as I can tell, I.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Think he paid for her from Epstein somewhere, and or
she looks like it anyway, And that decision is now
his decision to pay himself with our money for a
thing that he frivolously was mad about. The grift is

(01:29:21):
no longer like there's not even a plausible Oh well,
it's coming from private donors.

Speaker 4 (01:29:26):
This is straight up.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
I'm taking two hundred and thirty million dollars a taxpayer
money and sticking my motherfucking pocket and you can't stop me.

Speaker 4 (01:29:33):
And who knows where it stops. I don't think it
does stop.

Speaker 2 (01:29:38):
Headstart is run out of money. Those children are not
going to school or being fed. In many states as
of today, how many children could two hundred and thirty
million dollars fee. Snap is not operating because Mike Johnson
is afraid of letting one Republican or one Democratic representative

(01:30:00):
from Arizona come back and vote for a discharge petition
to force him to take a vote on the Epstein files.
He won't bring Congress back in the session, and no
progress can be made. Those children are going to be
hungry tomorrow. And SNAP hurts the farmers, of course it does.
Snap hurts the farmers. Those farmers don't have anybody working

(01:30:21):
in the Farm Bureau offices. There's twenty seven of them
throughout the country that they can't go to. Trump said
he's going to staff them with two people each right
at the beginning of planting season, right at the time
everybody needs to get their federal crop insurance, their disaster insurance,
and any of their payouts for all of their crops
that they can't sell because of his fucking terriorfs. Where's
for how many people with that two hundred and thirty

(01:30:42):
million dollars help?

Speaker 4 (01:30:45):
And this is where we are now?

Speaker 2 (01:30:48):
Where is the bridge that is too far? We long
passed it, long pasted it, But is there something Tell
me there's something that wakes these guys up and go,
all right, that's enough white nationalism in the chat.

Speaker 7 (01:31:04):
I what I hope the Democrats it's somewhere as they're
doing right now, is eventually right, somehow, some way, And
we think this ends in violence, but there will be
a change of power at one point. And I hope
the same way that we have these twenty twenty five
projects and things that that there are some of the
smartest and brightest people in this country thinking about how

(01:31:26):
do we harden these laws. We need to learn from this,
and obviously The Atlantic is being a story on this
about amending finding a way to amend this damn constitution
and figure, it's.

Speaker 4 (01:31:37):
Clear at this point we have to push towards that.
And I know that sounds far fetched right now, but it's.

Speaker 7 (01:31:43):
Gonna These things are gonna push people to a breaking
point where everybody's gonna be like, no, no, no, this
is cause you have to believe American people will get
to that. I feel like American people eventually always get there.
But yeah, someone needs to be thinking what this looks
like on the other side, and they'll say it's political retribution,
but people should.

Speaker 2 (01:32:02):
Pay for this, people should go jeffs to Jeff's point earlier,
the attention span is so minute. I know that people
once things are I mean, we kind of already had this, right.
Trump one was remarkably damaging to the economy, to the country,
to the Republic, to everything. He fucked up everything dastardly. Okay,

(01:32:25):
and Biden came and attempted to do exactly what you're saying,
right the ship.

Speaker 7 (01:32:30):
I would say, his policies will go down still in history.
I mean, which ones don't get dismanted with.

Speaker 4 (01:32:35):
The ones that don't get obliterated, right, But but like
he just wasn't good at communicating it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:41):
But even like on the international stage, he convinced the
rest of NATO and the rest of the world that okay,
the the Americans were back and things were gonna be
serious again. They did have very smart people work on this.
They built those cases, they they they had. Everything was
absolutely air fucking tight.

Speaker 7 (01:32:56):
He wouldn't kill the filibustered. Oh he's a man in
the Senate, right, stay, there's these.

Speaker 4 (01:33:01):
Be radical change at that time.

Speaker 2 (01:33:03):
And he wouldn't steal Team six the bad guys either.
That's because that's rat that's too radical, right, is it though?
Because yes, because we are, we are really talking about that.
Once things got a little smoother and everybody stopped having
to fight for snap benefits, the grievance and hatred comes

(01:33:24):
right back and they all go, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
But the real problem is those goddamn immigrants and link yeah,
I mean, look to your point. Project twenty twenty five
taught us a couple of important things. One, you have
to be willing to push the rules to the absolute
limits if you're gonna get your your your goals completed. Two,

(01:33:49):
every time we tell the Supreme Court or Republicans in
the Senate or anything, be careful what you put in
because the shoe might be on the other foot one day.
We have to be ready the second the shoe is
on the foot to exercise that shit and obliterate that filibuster,
push your stuff through the Senate, use the immunity powers

(01:34:09):
granted by the then do the things. And we just
need somebody who's got the fucking balls to do it,
and do it as hard and as as solidly as.

Speaker 4 (01:34:25):
They're doing it to us now. And it isn't a
tit for tat, and it isn't a retribution.

Speaker 2 (01:34:30):
It's like if you've built a great, big millennium falcon
lego set right, and you're so proud of this, and
then your fucking little brother comes and smashes it all
up and you're like, god damn it.

Speaker 4 (01:34:44):
What do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:34:46):
Well, first you beat his ass and then you put
your fucking legos back together, but you glue him that time,
and you don't let him anywhere near the fucking legos again.
That's what has to happen, oracle.

Speaker 4 (01:35:01):
Yes, it's clear today. I mean, like I hope and whenever,
I don't know when it might be, who knows.

Speaker 7 (01:35:06):
I know, you don't you expected them to be in power,
you know, to you know, not leave, and I hope
it doesn't get to that. But eventually there will be
something else, and these laws need to be hard into away,
like we need to re look at like what this,
what do we want this country to stand for?

Speaker 4 (01:35:24):
Because it's clearly not this. I don't think anybody in America,
I mean there's.

Speaker 7 (01:35:27):
A small minority I don't like, it's clear. The polling
shows that as well. People are like this is crazy,
like it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:35:34):
Like it don't really like it either because they splinter
and fracture it.

Speaker 4 (01:35:39):
They're within their groups and stuff. I think of Marjorie
Tayler Green, like you can look exactly good.

Speaker 12 (01:35:45):
Exactly after further review, the play stands the Republicans have
the ball.

Speaker 4 (01:35:50):
Keep it moving. Wow, scratch crazy.

Speaker 5 (01:35:56):
You've come around, in my sort of way of thinking
on this tip. Made me feel like back in the day,
Trump was doing this and Trump was doing that, and
your response would always be like, yeah, but we have
laws in place to prevent this from happening.

Speaker 3 (01:36:07):
There's checks and balances in place for this reason.

Speaker 5 (01:36:10):
And I remember sitting over here being like, I don't
think he cares about any of that, and I think
we're about to test how well those checks and balances
really hold up. And I think we've found out that, like, well,
if you have somebody who doesn't care about them, they really.

Speaker 4 (01:36:25):
You were right. And I have very definitely come around
to that side.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
And now that leaves test standing alone believing in the
checks and balances and the laws and the American people.

Speaker 4 (01:36:36):
I believe in the American people, and I believe this
will end in violence. The American people are busy trying
to figure out what the fuck six seven means, okay,
the American company eventually will come to their doorstep.

Speaker 7 (01:36:50):
It'll come to everyone's doorstep, and it just hasn't hit
enough people right now. It's like, oh, immigrants and they're
like the Venezuelans or Mexican migrants like that, it's on
their doorstep, and.

Speaker 4 (01:37:01):
Like obviously black people always it was always on our
doorstep whatever. But eventually it will come to others. It
will come to others doorsteps. And I wonder, how I
know you're British?

Speaker 6 (01:37:12):
Yeah, because what's Italian?

Speaker 2 (01:37:14):
Yeah he's but he's he's like a passport carrying Britain.
He's uh, he's You're you're quoting Churchill in a roundabout way.

Speaker 4 (01:37:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:37:25):
On the Americans to do the right thing after they've
tried everything else.

Speaker 4 (01:37:28):
I believe that. I believe.

Speaker 7 (01:37:30):
I believe, I believe that strongly in the people of
this country that they will eventually because they've.

Speaker 4 (01:37:38):
Come around before on some wilder things.

Speaker 2 (01:37:41):
My immigration is vital and we need people like you
moving to our country.

Speaker 7 (01:37:45):
It's interesting immigrants are the one to do fit. Like
all my American friends something my really my American friends
who are black day, they're like, shut up, you believe
in this.

Speaker 4 (01:37:55):
Is stupid ass ship.

Speaker 7 (01:37:57):
You think this is gonna be changed And I'm like, well,
wait no, no, Americans have changed it before.

Speaker 4 (01:38:02):
It's almost un American not to feel that way.

Speaker 7 (01:38:05):
It feels like it's like that exceptionalism has been and
Donald Trump is the one who's driven that out of people.
He's the one who said that America isn't that great
and we gotta make I've never seen a president come
into office in twenty sixteen and be like America isn't
what it's cracked up to be. And it's like what, wait,
hold on, what do you mean The president doesn't say that.

(01:38:25):
The President doesn't say that he does.

Speaker 2 (01:38:27):
It's yeah, And to your point about immigrants, you're right
about that. Right, of course, you don't find anybody more,
you know, the zeal of the convert, so to speak. Right,
right that those those who come here and make a
choice to be American and become citizens and invest their

(01:38:47):
lives in this country are in some ways more actively
American than people who were born here because we didn't
choose this, and we just happened to be here when
we were born. Whereas if you make the journey and
you make the struggle. You wanted it, right, you want
it more.

Speaker 4 (01:39:05):
But just here you were a citizen, which is crazy.
Yeah that's crazy anymore. Well, yeah, that's we'll see what
what ACD has to say about that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:17):
Okay, So you know how like currently the Republicans are
all mad about Jay Jones and his text about.

Speaker 7 (01:39:26):
Like I love watching those the v elections, those commercials.
I'm watching football and I just the j Joe. He's cooked.

Speaker 4 (01:39:38):
He's cooked. But it's not it's not touching spamburger at all.
Hell no.

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
But the main thrust of this whole thing is that
Democrats and the left wing in particular are violent and dangerous.
And you know, you saw that in the run up
to the to the No Kings rallies that everybody was
saying on Fox News. They were like, oh, this is
going to be violent, this is going to be dangerous.
There we there's no violence. Nobody got hurt, and.

Speaker 4 (01:40:03):
So, you know, but their narrative is that and the
facts don't.

Speaker 2 (01:40:09):
Matter in their case. But here's some so in case
people are listening that they might want to know that
a man pardoned by Donald Trump for starting the Capitol
in January sixth was arrested last week for threatening to
kill Haking Jefferies.

Speaker 17 (01:40:23):
Ooh, that's him, Wow, Brian. He can't just throw stuff
at us like that. He already in prison. There's a
prison outfit he has on already. Oh it's the same,
that's Alfy.

Speaker 2 (01:40:41):
War. He shows what's up with that haircut? He bites people, obviously, Yeah, clearly,
he clearly bites people.

Speaker 4 (01:40:49):
Wow, that's jarring. He's Sully the moynihand name.

Speaker 2 (01:40:54):
Yeah, clearly not related to Daniel Patrick. All right, So
Christopher moynihan, that fucking guy.

Speaker 4 (01:41:05):
It's crazy. So he was.

Speaker 2 (01:41:08):
Convicted of breaching the Senate floor and tearing through various desks,
and then you know, the FBI was like, yeah, it's
a fucking guy. They got him on tape and they
threw him in the slammer for a while, and then
he got out because Trump pardoned him and everybody else
like him for attacking the capitol. Let's see, where's his quote?

Speaker 4 (01:41:33):
Okay. Court records reflect that the FBI's.

Speaker 2 (01:41:36):
Tipster who turned him in this time, told the bureau
that on October seventeenth, that's like last week, moynihan quote
made statements regarding the assassination of Congressman Haking Jeffries, and
that he planned to carry out the attack quote in
a few days while the Democratic House leader was in
New York. The person told the FBI that moynihan described

(01:41:58):
the motivation for the plot as quote the future and voice,
concerned that the man given clemency by Trump had been
abusing drugs and expressing increasingly homicidal ideations. Now remember that
the left wing and wanting to feed children who are

(01:42:18):
hungry in the morning when they go to preschool are
the violent criminals. And these guys who got pardoned our
patriots because they're plotting to kill the minority leader of the.

Speaker 4 (01:42:33):
House of Representatives.

Speaker 2 (01:42:36):
That's the world we're in, Okay.

Speaker 7 (01:42:40):
I mean, I think maybe it's interesting because I do
think when they were part and we did say wait
till we see them turn up again. I feel like
we talked about this on the show. We were just like,
oh no, eventually these people were gonna they are.

Speaker 4 (01:42:55):
Who they are.

Speaker 2 (01:42:57):
Moynihan is one of a growing list of jan six
defense and who have been charged with, convicted of, or
sentenced for other crimes since Trump ended the nationwide manhunt.

Speaker 4 (01:43:06):
One of them, Edward Kelly.

Speaker 2 (01:43:08):
Was sentenced to life in prison earlier this year for
attempting to carry out an assassination plot against law enforcement
officials who investigated him over his role in the riot.

Speaker 4 (01:43:17):
You know, a patriot, patriot, state's rights working. Others have
faced burglary, possession of child porn, firearms related charges, but
Moynan is the first J six defendant accused of explicitly
targeting a member of Congress for violence after Trump's pardon.

Speaker 2 (01:43:36):
So you know he wanted to stand out.

Speaker 7 (01:43:39):
Man, What do you mean the first person that's targeted
member of Congress. The leader of J six targeted people
to Congress on a weekly basis. Yeah, but he's busy
with his balls room.

Speaker 4 (01:43:50):
True, that's true.

Speaker 2 (01:43:53):
Christ Okay, this one is an international one as our
last story for the outro, unless we want to hit
any of the betting in the NBA stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:44:06):
Oh god, oh god.

Speaker 2 (01:44:08):
Do we want to not touch out next week?

Speaker 4 (01:44:14):
Yeah? I didn't need to. I need two more days
for more ship to drop.

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
Okay, Yeah, that's fair. I am just I just want
to say, like, for the record, I'm shocked that it's
Chauncey Billups, like of all the people.

Speaker 7 (01:44:26):
I mean, I just think you know, when you a
poker game, could you just don't know who you're playing with?

Speaker 4 (01:44:31):
But I think you should know if you're playing with
the mob.

Speaker 7 (01:44:33):
But does the mob come and like, hey the mob,
like they don't they don't, but yeah, it's not good.

Speaker 4 (01:44:40):
He just seems like such a like you know, the
sort of like.

Speaker 2 (01:44:46):
That's yeah, yeah, I know he told me it was
it was Rodman or somebody who's like known for being
wild or something like that.

Speaker 7 (01:44:55):
Okay, but he's a high level competitor. And I think
the gambling is one of those things where like.

Speaker 4 (01:45:01):
And we were coaching the fucking Blazers.

Speaker 2 (01:45:04):
They're no more competitive thing than being a head coach
of an NBA team, But I.

Speaker 7 (01:45:08):
Think people might always be chasing that edge, and I
don't I do think coaching is different than.

Speaker 4 (01:45:13):
Playing in the NBA game.

Speaker 7 (01:45:14):
And these players have been doing this on the back
of planes forever they've been putting up They players lose
a quarter million dollars on the plane coming home from
places like those aren't so gambling has always been there.
I just think right now what people don't understand is
with the leagues in bed with the with the DraftKings,
the fan duels.

Speaker 4 (01:45:33):
They have a lot of data that's getting shared back
and forth.

Speaker 7 (01:45:36):
You know, your bookie wasn't gonna go fucking tell the
fucking NBA that you're fucking doing this, but you.

Speaker 4 (01:45:41):
Know Mike DraftKings might share that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:46):
Really pinched mobster. Yeah yeah, all right, So we'll come
back to that story next week when we get back. Okay,
So let's talk about this international story. As you know,
there are things called refugees. They are usually fleeing some
sort of dangerous scenario where things are you know, very untenable.

(01:46:10):
There's a war, there's a famine, there's both, there's destruction,
maybe a volcano is erupted, hurricanes, you know, earthquakes, all
kinds of stuff, right, And there is a UN charter
on refugees. There's all kinds of rules about kind of
how this works. And the United States has been famously
believe on refugees for a long time. We even have

(01:46:33):
a Tom Petty song about it where how you don't
have to live like a refugee. Right, And so when
Trump came back, the refugee program stopped at in its tracks.

Speaker 4 (01:46:44):
Nobody's getting in.

Speaker 2 (01:46:45):
It doesn't matter if you were already pre approved it
doesn't matter if you were on the plane on your
way here, turn the plane around. You're not coming in.
We don't want no dirty, dangerous refugees. There are all
a bunch of fucking criminals anyway, and blah blah blah.

Speaker 4 (01:46:58):
Right, this is what it's what was said.

Speaker 2 (01:47:00):
Turns out there's a certain category of refugees that the
United States is gonna let in.

Speaker 4 (01:47:06):
What kind of refugees is that? Cameroonians? Maybe, No, it
is possible if you could be born than Cameroon and
beat this.

Speaker 7 (01:47:19):
No, it's our good friends, the Afrikaners. Yeah, in europea
seven thousand of them, right.

Speaker 2 (01:47:26):
Yes, So they're just white people. Only white people are allowed.
The Trump administration planned to overhaul the US refugee resettlement process,
including a drastic production overall annual admissions. Coincides with a
concerted effort to prepare thousands of white South Africans to
relocate to the United States through that same system. According

(01:47:48):
to documents that The Washington Post came up with this week,
if the administration succeeds, almost all of the people admitted
to the US's refugees, as many as seven thousand from
a maximum potential pool of seventy five hundred, So I
don't know who those five hundred are to get left behind.
Could be Africanners, a group not traditionally eligible for the program.

(01:48:10):
But when Donald Trump has been has has been what
says has been tyrannized by South Africa's black majority. I'm sorry,
I couldn't even read that sentend.

Speaker 4 (01:48:21):
It's crazy. Yeah, it is a crazy sentence. It's a
crazy sentence.

Speaker 2 (01:48:25):
The State Department has set a goal of processing two
thousand Africaners for resettlement by the end of October, in
additional four thousand by the end of November.

Speaker 4 (01:48:34):
Oh, so they can do it, Well, what if they're
shut down? Can they do that? Of course, of course
they can, right, they can find the money for that.
What are they fleeing?

Speaker 7 (01:48:45):
I think this is a larger This is part of
a larger mission which is so crazy because there's no
data behind this to recast white people as the afflicted
like this, that's who, like whether it's the dismantle of
the civil rights laws that are happening here or like

(01:49:06):
obviously doing it under the DEI guys, they're trying to
recast white folks. Is the real people who are being
harmed that have always been harmed. And I think that
is scary because that then with the full like if
you take it this way, right, if you take it
to flip and say, all right, with the full force
of the federal government and what it was able to

(01:49:27):
do for black people, right, and like in the sense
of like, oh, the state is against like integrating your school,
so we're gonna set the federal government the full force
to force you to do that. If that has ever flipped,
that's scary. And that's a time none of us have
ever lived in. Well, we may be just about to
live through it.

Speaker 2 (01:49:48):
As you and I were discussing offline this week regarding
voting rights in Louisiana, Yeah, where a group of non
black I think they call themselves not African American Voters
for America or something like that, brought their lawsuit and

(01:50:09):
said that the fact that they are in these majority
minority districts violates their constitutional rights. And they cited the
fourteenth and fifteenth Amendments as their rationale for this fourteenth
Amendment being that everybody's afforded equal access and representation or

(01:50:32):
I'm sorry, equal access to a process under the law,
and the fifteenth being guaranteed the right to vote and
have representation. That they're saying, well, look, we're stuck in
these black districts and we you know, our vote never matters.
We're being discriminated against, and they might win on that.

Speaker 4 (01:50:50):
That's frightening. Well, it's a fright I mean to you
because those laws.

Speaker 7 (01:50:57):
Again, if you're like judges should interpret the laws, if
you're talking about originalism, right, if that's what everybody wants
to talk about those Like, how are.

Speaker 4 (01:51:06):
They going to co opt the thirteenth? Someone tell me that.

Speaker 2 (01:51:14):
The fourteenth and fifteenth is already pretty disgusting enough. It is.

Speaker 7 (01:51:18):
It's just it's diabolical because the courts will rubber stamp this.

Speaker 4 (01:51:25):
And we've seen before when the courts decide to do this.

Speaker 7 (01:51:30):
Right, I mean if you look at After Reconstruction, right,
and the courts start saying, hey, no, it's okay to
discriminate like like on the reverse, like the courts can
stamp thing, they can make things into law, they can
change things like.

Speaker 2 (01:51:45):
And I think a very simple version of this it
is that the argument is essentially that if democracy is
real and everybody is equal, then you can draw disc
no matter what people need to compete on the merits
of their ideas and there should be nothing set aside

(01:52:06):
and nothing protected.

Speaker 4 (01:52:08):
And that's just it. And you know, we've already had that, and.

Speaker 2 (01:52:12):
We saw that it meant that black folks didn't get
represented at all, and so there had to be an
exception to the absolutism of one man, one vote in
order to reset and rebalance things in a way that
is somewhat representative of the state itself.

Speaker 4 (01:52:31):
I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:52:31):
And in the Louisiana case, what you're looking at is
a state that has six seats, it's thirty five percent black,
and there was only one district that was black, and
that's not a third. And so the court said, no,
you got to draw this in a way that's proportional.

Speaker 4 (01:52:49):
Well, it's proportional statewide, but it isn't proportional at that
at that district level. And if you really want to
get down to it, okay, so then is it proportional
at the state state district levels.

Speaker 2 (01:53:01):
And and all of this we are really talking about,
Like you can make the argument you're a Democrat voting
in Texas for President, your vote doesn't matter either. You're
getting washed out, you're being discriminated against right, and they're
making that same argument where white folks in a black
district were being discriminated against our votes to never get counted.
That's a compelling argument if you're Sam and Alito and

(01:53:23):
neighbor Clarence. The question is is it a compelling argument
if you're ACB. B. A. Can Brett or John Roberts
and John Roberts drew the second district in Louisiana and
it's ruling just a few years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:53:35):
So he's not a fan of he's not a fan
right of the voting rights.

Speaker 2 (01:53:40):
He's not a fan of that right that's the Voting
Rights Act in the first place.

Speaker 4 (01:53:45):
But then he was the one that sent this back
and said that they had to redraw this, so you
know he's he's kind of a toss up. But listen,
if you're gonna make that case, be prepared for the
flip side of that case. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:53:59):
Don't be out here complaining that Republicans don't get representation
in places like New York. If you think that the
jerrymandering redistricting that you see going on in response to
Trump's call for help in Texas, uri and other places.
North Carolina don't think that can't come for you. And
just because it's happening in California, Virginia got into it today. Okay,

(01:54:20):
you've got states. North Carolina is one of them, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin,
to some extpt Michigan. These are states that have more
Democrats than Republicans by registration, but the Republicans have managed
to jerrymander themselves districts in the state houses where they
control the districts in the Congress that not only give

(01:54:42):
them majorities, but give them super majorities. That can change,
and it will. And if you think that you can't
draw yourself into competitive districts now, and remember that Republicans
couldn't get control of the House for forty years, it
could basically be if we are really going to talk
about this country one nay, one vote, well, it's vastly

(01:55:03):
democratic and they will just never be in power once
things get fixed that way. So again, where it's all this,
be careful. Once the shoes on the other on the
other foot, fucking put that shoe on my foot and
I'll stump the ship out of them. We gotta be ready,
and we gotta we gotta hit them as hard as
they hit us.

Speaker 7 (01:55:19):
I think for now, though, you'll end up seeing, right,
we're seeing this already in the federal government, the amount
of black folks that are in either top positions or
that that is dwindling. And then when does that that
chilling effect starts to ripple throughout the economy where you'll
see this in law firms. Right if what the federal
government now has their thumb on the scale of so
many industries on there that if they perceive you're doing

(01:55:42):
some crazy DEI ship or like or you're trying to
balance out, like pick whatever profession they can, they can
clearly put the full force of the federal government. The
magnifying glass can come over you and it will fucking
burn you. It like the sun will burn you. Right, Like, Hey,
do you really.

Speaker 2 (01:56:00):
Want to watch all white basketball? Because that sucks. Look, look,
I mean imagine Duke versus Duke all the time. Nobody
wants to watch.

Speaker 4 (01:56:10):
That sounds terrible. Yeah, that sounds very bad. But you know,
and look, the NFL stood up for a bad Bundy
the other day. You know, you know, that was.

Speaker 3 (01:56:18):
Surprising NFL to dignified that with a response.

Speaker 4 (01:56:22):
But it's kind of crazy.

Speaker 9 (01:56:24):
I was wird.

Speaker 7 (01:56:25):
I was like, just put put the show on and
ignore it. But there people are I don't know, people
are clearly afraid. But yeah, the shoe will be on
another foot one day and again, hopefully the Democrats that
don't what do you call it?

Speaker 4 (01:56:41):
What is it? Miss miss an opportunity? What's the what's
the phrase? They always nottch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Speaker 5 (01:56:48):
It doesn't seem like Democrats are ever gonna do that, right,
They're never gonna They're never gonna be as extreme on
that side. I think they're always trying to like work
to find some middle and it's that's what you know.
Whether that's what's killing it, but that's what you.

Speaker 3 (01:57:02):
Know to do. But you can play that way well.

Speaker 4 (01:57:07):
And you know, I saw something that sort of like
draws this equivalent.

Speaker 6 (01:57:11):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:57:11):
There isn't such a thing as a far left in America.

Speaker 2 (01:57:13):
The far left in America is objectively maybe even center
right if you measured it against the politics and the
rest of the world. It's just that it looks like
that because the country itself is so right wing that
it just doesn't make anything. But yeah, the thing that
makes us squishy liberals is that we're not ready to fight,
and what you need is somebody like me, maybe as
benevolent dictator who's out there willing to kick some ass

(01:57:36):
and call people names and do all that shit, because
that's how you fucking win. Just saying, you know, make
me in charge of something besides this stupid show that
finished in two hours today, speaking of which you hear
the music right, So we want to say thank you

(01:57:57):
to Jeff Perwman for being so cool and hanging out
with us. We cannot wait having back.

Speaker 4 (01:58:01):
Please go buy his his book. Only God can judge
me never. Let's be honest, He's never coming back.

Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
He's definitely coming back. He's fantastic and and that was
that was great. We do have an actually pretty good
slated guest coming up in November, so stay tuned for that.
I've I've finally managed to get that working fish. Thank
you for coming back to hanging out with us. Maybe

(01:58:30):
some time in the future, can we get Pure dilecto
to to come back?

Speaker 9 (01:58:34):
Ha ha ha.

Speaker 4 (01:58:38):
The best bit you ever came up with. Bye bye
a lot. It's also for sure Yeah, thanks to our
radio partners Google.

Speaker 2 (01:58:49):
Whatever the hell is happening in BRAZILA for some reason
got us a million listens. Also, Krystan of all places
the internet.

Speaker 4 (01:58:58):
Man, we've got fans in Carrigus, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:59:01):
Uh. Thanks to NFTN for keeping us on for another week,
maybe don't know. Thanks to our home on the interwebs,
Coplaymedia dot Com. And thanks as always to our family
here at Beltwey Radio and at rip Radio for making
us sound as smooth as shoo Tany's orbital Homers. All right,
World Series is starting? Who's gonna win? Fish?

Speaker 3 (01:59:25):
Unfortunately, I do think the Dodgers will win, But I'm
pulling for the days.

Speaker 4 (01:59:29):
Okay, Tez. I think the Dodgers are gonna sweep them.

Speaker 2 (01:59:34):
Sweep Okay, I think it's the Dodgers in five. The
Jays will probably get one back, but you know, got it,
got it? Root for the Brooklyn homies.

Speaker 9 (01:59:45):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:59:46):
That's that's just where where my family.

Speaker 4 (01:59:48):
Lies on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:59:49):
Also, fuck Canada, all right, God, don't redo that one please.
We are on the nose already, all right, Fish? Where
can everybody follow you on the socials and keep in
touch with when all you're up to?

Speaker 4 (02:00:06):
These days?

Speaker 9 (02:00:07):
Uh?

Speaker 4 (02:00:07):
You know what?

Speaker 3 (02:00:08):
You can check out my old band, Bells and Hunters.
At Bells and hunters on all the social media's.

Speaker 4 (02:00:13):
There you go, all right, Tess, Where can everybody catch
on all the stuffs exposed?

Speaker 7 (02:00:18):
A Pfizor Sciences battles corruption, lies and betrayal and becomes
a biohazard whistleblower.

Speaker 4 (02:00:25):
To find me, all right?

Speaker 2 (02:00:30):
You can find me in the show on the Twitter
at Chipchat ORRI. You can find us on Facebook or
Instagram at rip chip Chat. You can of course find
me on Blue Sky with my old Twitter handle at
chef chip and you can find us most Thursday nights,
every Thursday night at nine point thirty here on Beltwegh
Radio and on RIP Radio since we're on both live

(02:00:51):
all the time. I'm Chip, that's Test, that's Fish. Brian's
in the background. Thank you to Jeff Proman. You've been
listening to Chipchat on Beltwegh Radio and beyond fucking.

Speaker 4 (02:01:00):
Looks again.

Speaker 2 (02:01:02):
Out eat Mitch McConnell.

Speaker 18 (02:01:09):
He's trying to say the republic like tests on this
golf course, it ain't private, just public. When we have
a drink in the bars now bears the public. It's
hard to get something to run with the subject. If
we get famous, we can give a shout out to
Brian to get us sound on Thomas what he'd be
trying to show us like a tust of feathered eddy
in that knows words? How can we stay late when
our guest is zilly bird? And conclusion the messages to

(02:01:31):
go out and serve folks, whether that's our music or
if you just tell jokes, seek to medicate your ears.

Speaker 4 (02:01:37):
Hope you will eradicate your fears thanks to sticking with
us through all these years