June 12, 2025 • 29 mins
In this powerful episode of Voices of Legacy, we sit down with renowned musician, producer, and minister Chris Byrd, celebrated member of the legendary Rance Allen Group. Chris shares his journey in gospel music, memories of working alongside Bishop Rance Allen, and his passion for ministry and mentoring the next generation. This heartfelt conversation highlights the legacy of sound, soul, and service that continues to shape gospel music and lives around the world.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Good morning, and welcome to the Voices of Legacy. Well, morning, afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Whenever you're listening to this, we're celebrating the lives of
those that have contributed to our community here in northwestern
Ohio and around the world in some cases, many cases
to the diverse tapestry of faith and culture here in
Toledo as well. Today we're honored to have one with us,
one of well, i'd say Toledo's legends, living legends, quiet
(00:54):
humble legends, but he's a legend nonetheless. Multi Stellar award
winning producer, songwriter, musician, and minister of the gospel, known
for his long standing collaboration with the Ram Salen group.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Chris Bird. Yes, sir, Yes, sir, How you is, I'm
doing wonderful. How you is? I'm doing great? Sir? Tell
us something about yourself. Well, of course, I'm from Toledo, Ohio,
the youngest of six children, born and raised, born and
raised in Toledo. And for boys, two girls, all the
(01:28):
boys play and the girls sing. Uh. And then of
course I started playing probably about the age of four,
and you know, grew up with an organ and pano
in the house. So they all of my brothers took
lessons except me, and I was the one that just
kind of watched them and learned from them.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
You know, well that's your lesson, that was my lesson.
So was it my choice? Something you wanted to do?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Loved you? Love was my passion. I mean, while while
other kids was out playing sports, basketball, football, you were
playing the piano. They had to drag me off of
the piano.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So you you play piano, piano, organ, organ.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
A little bit of drums, bass, piano. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So you have a diverse mixture of instruments that you play.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
What's your favorite? Uh? This piano, keyboard and keyboard. Yeah, yeah,
that's my favorite. But you know I play a little
bit of the other ones. I'm not as good as
some of these young kids and out they're they're so
multitalented they master all of them. But you know, I
mastered the piano and the organ rather than like the
(02:36):
drums or the bass and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So so the others in the studio were out of
necessity or if you have something in your mind that
you want to get out that you need to.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah. Now, as far as working in the studio, I
do programming, So you know I can program all the
instruments in the studio actually, you know, with the tap
of my fingers playing the drums and bass and all
of that. So that part is I love that too,
and that's something that I just I guess, I guess
(03:04):
I'm pretty good at it. Well, I tell you so,
I try.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Is there anything else that you do or like to do.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I love teaching. I've been doing that recently, teaching high school.
I teach music production and so basically teaching the young
kids how to program, how to write music and produce
their own music. And that's here in Toledo. That's here
in Toledo at Rogers High School. Awesome. I'm collaborating with
(03:33):
another teacher, Daphnie Herford. She does the video and visual
graphics and all of that, and I do the audio.
So we kind of merge those two pieces together because
you know, if you can't have a good video and
poor audio, so you know, we got to make sure
the trills area that are good. And so basically, if
you know, there's kids who actually write their own music,
(03:56):
collaborate and produce it, and then once that's done, some
of the other students that are really into the video
and the graphics, they get to actually, you know, produce
a video. Wow, you know, merge those two worlds together.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And that sounds like a lot of fun. You're running
some talent so far, Yeah, a lot some future Chris
Birds and brand challenge and.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And the and the challenge is a lot of the kids,
you know, they want to use profanity and all that,
and so that's the challenge, trying to keep them to
keep it clean and you know, and inspirational, something possible.
And so you know, it's it's been going pretty good.
You know, every now and then you run into something.
And in one case, where this was a couple of
years ago, one of the kids you know, kept you know,
(04:45):
every now and then droppingfanity. So it's like, look, when
I told you about this, you can't keep doing this,
you know.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So he kept doing Is he just getting excited with
the content or I mean that's that's you.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Know, his environment, that's what he's around, you know. So
so finally like, okay, look we got to talk to
your mom about this. You can't go in the booth nowhere.
You're banned from the booth, so we you know, put
tape over it. You can't go in there. So one
day me and miss Herford. We're out. We had the
sub man. Somehow he talked the sub into letting him
(05:17):
go into booth and record for substitute. So we get back,
you know, we find out he's been in there record
and we're like, what what you know? So I said,
let me go in here and see what he did.
He wrote an apology something Oh sorry, you know, mister bird.
You know I didn't mean it. Sorry, I'm sorry. You know,
(05:39):
I spelled his paint. I spelled my painting to this song.
That's why they don't be song and right, I know
I cuss up in the songs. I promise you I
won't tonight, you know. I mean. He put it together
and it's like, wow, okay, so he got our hearts.
I said, okay, didn't worked. It worked, This is a
good story.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It worked.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
We let him right back in. So and then he
did pretty good. He didn't you know, he kept he
kept his promise. So that's good. That's good. Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So when when we were getting the Chris Burg biopic.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Well, you know, I've been working on a biography for
quite some time. Uh kind of slowed way down, especially
since mischi rant yeah passed away. But I got a
lot of footage and even got him on some.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And so you've actually had some some collaborations outside of
even the group together, haven't you. Oh yeah, yeah, he's
been on some of your albums.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Right yeah, right yeah, a lot of my Yeah, My
my very first record that I did, Attitude of Praise.
Uh he was. He was on that, a song called
Guy's Word would Never Change uh Me and him sang
on it. My second one with Chris Burden, True Victory.
He sang a few songs on there, So I think
the only one he didn't sing on was Filing. That
(07:02):
might be the only one because I think at that
time the record label was kind of making me feel like,
you know, you need rants to do this, gotcha? So
I wanted to do a project without him to let
them know, look I can stand, I'm on two feet. Yeah,
And we did that. Filing Movement was probably the biggest
(07:23):
selling record we ever did.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, not to get away from what you're saying, we're
about to say in a moment, but you actually wrote, well,
I don't think a lot of people know that some
music is quite a few of the songs as well.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, like with the group with
the Rand Sound Group. Yeah. Actually, probably like in nineteen
ninety six. I believe that's when I really started doing
more collaborating with Bishop Rance and the project You Make
Me want to dance with that project, and so you know,
(07:58):
he allowed me to come in and just you know,
do my thing and add you know, whatever flavors to
the ideas that he had, and so that's where the
collaboration began. And from there on he started to letting
me do more and more to where you know, he's like, okay,
you got it. You just you just tell me when
they come to the studio, you know, And whatever I
(08:20):
would write, I would either save I would try to
save room for him to write versus sometimes I would
get it off be like you know, but I still
would give him the credit, you know, as you know
that we just had that type of relationship. So you know,
that's kind of how that began, you know, because he
(08:41):
was he wanted to focus more on pastoring, yes, and
so he kind of without me even realizing it, you know,
years down the road, was like, wow, I got this
big responsibility. I didn't even realize that it was even happening.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So how long were you with that.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That group really what he started church in nineteen eighty five.
That's when I met him, what not for the first time,
but you know, yeah, we collaborate. We got together and
I started playing for the church. And right after that
I started coming, you know, to Stephen Thoms and Ranci's
(09:16):
basement times basement and where they would rehearse. So that
was pretty much since nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
And I was playing you don't look old enough to
do anything.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
In nineteen eighty five. I mean, you know, we're not
going to touch it. I'm not going to do that today. Yeah,
you know, that's a that's a whole nother story. I
got married at seventeen, ok so, which was nineteen eighty three,
and then you know, so you.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Just you just gave it away. It's twenty twenty to
do the math for Oh my goodness. So you were
with him a long time.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And for those that are listening that you may not
be familiar, I can imagine with one of America's icons
and the late Bishop Rance Allan, he was kind of
like the Kirk Franklin before Kirk Franklin as far as
gospel music, because I remember when I was a kid,
it was a big deal. Some folks wouldn't let you
listen to rants Aum because it was just too funky.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Right right. And they would tell me stories, you know,
before I got there. They would tell me stories about
how they would be playing in church and people thought
it was too much and they'd get it a walk out,
you know. So, I mean, you know, just it's just
an honor and a pleasure to just be uh, to
have been you know, connected with them and just be
able to do.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
What I did in such an integral part. I remember
you were on the Arsenio Hall Show. Yeah, yeah, I
mean the original art.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Original Yeah, I'm like, that's grit. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
How was that experience back then? In all the traveling?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
That was great because you said you got married in
eighty three. Eighty three, you got with him in eighty five,
that's two years. Yeah, and from there on you were everywhere.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah. So it was funny because at that time I'm
working for the county. I was I used to be
a dog ward and so oh catch up. Yep. So
we went to shoot our Senior Hall show on the weekend.
I think I left, I left, Yeah, I left work Friday,
we went out to La shot the show, and then
(11:34):
uh we were on that show. I think probably you know,
right away that same day. I was right back to
work Monday.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
My co workers are like, we saw you sit.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
How did you do that?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
You know, it's like, hey, I flew out the Magic
of Caroline.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Oh my goodness. But yeah, it was. It was a
great experience. I mean Michael Wolf, you know, he was
the band director back then, and all the all the guys,
the what do you call these? Yeah, so I got
I got to direct them. I got to direct the band,
you know. So it's great, that's right. They played with
you guys. Yeah, well yeah, yeah, I played the keys
and I was directing the band. Wow wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
So what has been the ups and some of the
downs of your experience professionally with the group without.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Uh well, uh, it was a lot of ups, of course,
you know, I mean just the experience being on the
stage with them, being able to you know, put the
band together. Because kind of going back, let's me go
back a little bit, because you kind of hit on
something I wanted to say and I don't want to
forget it. But as a teenager, you know when Rance
(12:44):
Thomas Eve were playing the instruments. You know. I would
go to the concerts. Rance would be playing the guitar
with his teeth in his back. He's like a rock star,
you know what I meant. But as I got with him,
after I got with them, probably about maybe five years
or so later, they decided, you know, we we want
(13:05):
you to put the band together and we're gonna stand
up and scene. You know. So that was a wonderful
experience for me just being able to you know, get
mainly the guys that were playing at the church. You know,
we basically got a chance to go travel with them
and just being out there.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So the church band is what traveled with them.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, interesting, and I mean we were all just so
it was it was like kids in the candy store,
being out there on the road. We got to go
wherever we wanted to go where, you know, and meet
so many different people, you know, I mean, being on
the road with with them, That's how I met John
(13:45):
p Key, you know, and then from there I started
even traveling with him for a certain season. You know.
So it's just you know, Bobby Jones, you know, so
being going to the different Bobby Jones Explosions. So once
I started my group, then we started going to the
Barbile Jones Explosions and you know, connected with them. So
(14:06):
all of those experiences, you know, getting to play before
thousands of people with you know, gospel music workshops, the
big celebration of gospel, uh, you know, all of the
bt A boards and different things that we would uh
that that we were on and different artists you know.
(14:27):
So it was I guess I and that's probably why
I don't really go to many concerts today. My kids
had to make me go to the concert. They would
buy me a ticket, And I guess the reason why
is because I've always been on stage.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, it's different why I don't have to go.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I've seen it all. I've been there, you know what
I mean. But you know, it's just it was great
now as far as the lows, I think, like in
the day like today, years ago, Oh, the music was great,
you know, I mean we were selling CDs you know,
and it was very lucrative. Whereas now it's changed, and
(15:10):
I saw it coming years ago. We would always talk
about the change that was coming to where you know,
people are downloading and then they start streaming, they stopped
making the CDs, you know, So all of those different
changes somewhat kind of is you know, it's a little
frustrating because you don't when you people don't understand, like
(15:34):
especially today, it's even worse. When you are making music.
It costs money. It costs money to do this, I mean,
and so you have to invest in yourself or somebody
else has to invest in you. Whereas you know, if
they invest in you, you still got to pay that
money back because whatever you would be getting paid, they're
(15:57):
going to get it first before they start paying royalties.
So the record company, right, record label. But for the
most part, I've been one to invest in myself first,
you know, and that's almost with any artist. A record
label wants to see you investing yourself first.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So growing up in the traditional dynamic of the music industry,
has it been hard to transition? I mean you already
have content of your own.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah. Yeah. The hard part is so now you know,
record labels are voting, you know, and so a lot
of independence labels with you know, most of the artists are
you know, basically investing in themselves. Well it's because there's
not CDs to where you can make as much money
(16:42):
as you used to make. You know, with the return,
the investment has even got bigger to where you got
to pay promotional dollars to even get your stuff out there,
get it played on radio. You know, you got to
pay a lot. It costs a lot of money. And
you know people talk about pay all of it is illegal.
It's still going on. Yeah, I'm letting the cat out
(17:04):
the back. It's still going on, and especially in the
gospel music, and you can't get your stuff played a
lot of times.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
And there's not that many gospel radio stations anymore. Radio
I almost said the name of the company. There's a
particular company that owns most of them. A lot of
people don't know that. So it's kind of hard, right
getting anything out there is.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And so they want to charge you so much money,
and then when you add it up, you know you're
not going to get it back, you know, whereas you
know years now, years before, you would have, but now
it's not coming back.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
So I hear that you make more money off of shows.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Now, that's that's that's it.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Which in the gospel industry, the show is not really
supposed to show. It's supposed to be ministry but you
got to make money at the same time, So how
do you merge all that?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
And still, well, it's it's it's a little difficult, you know.
And I'm working on some things. Now I can't that
part I can't speak too much of, but I am
working on some things as far as you know, doing
more shows and touring. But you know, that's that's where
And I think COVID kind of helped that since COVID,
(18:13):
since everybody kind of got back into, you know, going
to different places after being on lockdown. People love to
go to concerts now, yes, and so most of most
of the artists are really taking advantage of that. So
you know, if you're an artist, and you know, if
you're making music in order to make money, you got
to travel, you got to be out there.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
What was the most profound song that you've ever been
involved in?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well, the most profound and impactful I.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Have the most downloaded, most purchased individual my song or
rants any.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Of them or both both.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That would be great, one with the group and one without.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I would say something about the name Jesus Yep, yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Is the number one. It is downloaded of all time
from the Rams Island group.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Right, if we go anywhere and don't sing that, I
think they was they were throwing us. We can't get
off the stage without singing that song. I don't care
where we are. Does that never get old? No? No,
And the same with Philip Movie. It's been that way,
and you know, from from the very beginning since we
(19:22):
recorded it. Even now that was a while ago, oh yeah,
that was ninety three. Wow. Yeah, and you know, I
mean sometime we might can get away with it now.
But years ago, especially when we were out touring and traveling,
we could not go anywhere without singing that song. And
we got tired of singing it. You know. The group
(19:43):
was like, why were ill sing this again? It's like, look,
this is what everybody loves. They want to hear it,
so we can't.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Not sing this song, you know, but it would seem
like you kind of get tired of singing the same song.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Right, but that, yeah, that's it, and we don't We
don't remix it so many times, you know, we try
to do it different just to make it exciting for us,
you know, but the people they want to hear like
the record actually.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah you know, yeah, yeah, and that they don't realize
some people don't realize that record.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
You know, it's not new right around. The funny thing is,
this is a question I get asked all the time,
even today, when you're gonna do something new, when when
your new project coming out, and I would always ask,
what's the last one you had? That's a good question,
and it's always feel a movie. That's usually the answer.
(20:33):
I've done ten projects since then. Okay, that's why I
need you to go get those before I do another one,
because that's new to you.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, oh my goodness. So I want to touch on something.
I think I'm going just a little bit over time,
but that's okay. The transition from traditional gospel or contemporary
gospel really is the beginning of the Ransalen group before
you ever remember, and then we have this new contemporary gospel,
so it's kind of like levels of contemporary from the traditional.
(21:05):
What has been your experience with that transition. Well, the
music is meaningful and impactful as something about the name
Jesus and other records.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Well, it's funny you ask that question. It's a great question,
and I've seen where you know, when I started, like
with Feeling Moving, that kind of set a tone for
the type of style that people wanted to hear from us.
So then as I started, you know, I've always been
kind of versatile. I've done jingles in the corporate world.
(21:40):
Then working with rants, it's kind of a different style
and true victory. I've worked with other you know, people
were doing praise and worship, and I start growing in
that area of praise and worship after we did feeling moving,
so I wanted to, you know, gravitate more towards the
praising worship. And you know, I would year people, you know, like,
(22:02):
why do you change? I needed to you know, I
need we want to hear that style, stick to that style.
You know. It's like, you can't put me in a
box now, you know, this is this is who I am,
you know. And I mean, you know, so I think
actually some of the music that God was giving me,
you know, because the thing is, many times when I'm
(22:25):
just sitting and praying, I would sit and worship at
my keyboard and you know, pray to God, talk to God,
and that's where he starts sing songs. So I had
to give whatever he gives me. This is what I'm giving,
you know.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Pastor key was my pastor in Charlotte Johnny Key, and
we had the workshop about every year and Bishop would come.
But one thing that he said at one of the workshops,
and it just stuck with me to this day, is
that every song that he's ever written was a sermon.
And when I look back at his callo, it's actually true,
matter how catchy it is, and he's actually saying some
(23:02):
order scripture.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Right exactly exactly. And that's one thing I learned from
Bischia Rants is writing from sermons many well you know
he I saw him do that, and then when we
would sit down and write songs many you know times
he would pull out, you know, some notes from a
sermon or some scripture, and so that kind of put me,
you know, in the same yeah. Same. So here's a question.
(23:25):
Do you preach? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but what keeps you grounded?
What keeps you grounded? Uh? Well, you know, the word
of God, preaching the word of God and just having
that relationship, you know, prayer. And I'm grateful for a
praying wife. You know. She she's one who praised me
(23:47):
through so many different things.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And both of y'all look like teenagers, so it must
be working.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, oh yeah, definitely that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, So a praying wife helps keep you grounded and
to your experience at worship center and your your your
wonderful pastor and friend of the family as well. How's
that experience been in I think that's part of what
keeps you grounded.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
That's definitely what keeps me grounded. You know, being there
has really taught me to be stronger in my worship
and to God. And that's that's where that you know,
that real authentic you know about to say yeah, because
you know, it's funny. Once I came and start playing
for Bishop H. McKinstry, the things that I the songs
(24:33):
and the style that I would play in some of
the songs that I was doing at that time. When
I first came, they weren't working for that house. So
that caused me to write more songs for that house.
I started. You know, it's like, I would, you know,
what what is this? All the stuff I've been playing
songs that I'm a teacher. They're not working here. What do
(24:54):
you want me to do? And I'm just laying before
God and acting him. You know, He started giving me
songs songs for that house, and most of the songs
for the house was working even for the nations. You know,
we would we would sing them in the house. They
would work, you know, the Holy Ghost, cucumbentt just and
it was great have a gospel experience. And then you
know they even work for you know, recording as well.
(25:17):
So that's one of the things I appreciate, you know,
and writing from summer her sermons. Yeah, I mean just
just getting so much when you get when you get fed,
you know, good food. You know you're gonna you're gonna
abundance of the heart mouth speaks. So whatever you know,
you put in, whatever you put it, you take in,
(25:40):
is gonna come out.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
And that's more than being just a musician. You know that,
that's that gospel experience that people seek out of gospel,
even people some folks that don't even believe they get
that feeling. I don't even know what it is, but
that that that's it's a it's a great thing. But
without laboring the hour, if you could say anything, not
(26:01):
just to young people, but to our listeners, what would
you think your legacy is already? What would you like
for it to be?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I would say just being authentic and authentic worshiper and
you know, letting God, you know, use you in the
gift that he's blessed you with, whether it be music, preaching,
or singing or playing basketball whatever, you know, but you know,
being to where you can really touch lives with your gift,
(26:36):
using your gift to the best of your ability. And
one thing I always remember a teacher told me in
high school about the one with the five talents, you know,
and whatever God gives you, you got to put it
the use and you got to increase it. So I
want that to be my legacy that you know, God
(26:57):
gave me the gift, the gifts that I have have,
and I was one to cultivate it, to maximize it,
and to try and increase it so that I can
get gain more from it, you know, and instead of
going and burying it, and you know, to where guys
are not pleased with that you lose, and you lose it,
you're gonna give it to somebody else.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
If yeah, that's awesome, that's awesome. Well hopefully we can
have you back here. And I got to ask you
one last question, where are you gonna do something new?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Well?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Uh, and don't ask me how many I got, because
I got all you.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Got okay, okay, well, I was just thinking yesterday about
some new stuff that I could do, but I want
to let that cat out the bag. But we did,
just did. We did do something. And this is you know,
it's not a gospel project. It's a school project. We
(27:56):
did a song with our school, Rochester High School, and
you sent some of the kids collaborated on it with us.
We got the principal, Missus Rodder Jamison. Shout out to her.
She's on the song. We got the video and everything,
and we just finished. I was just sharing with Christopher.
So it's all finished, and so I'll let you check
(28:16):
it out before we leave here today. Okay, available on YouTube,
not yet, not yet. We workingize coming real song.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Thank you so much for coming with us on the
journey of discussion here on the Voices of Legacy. Appreciate
your transparency. I appreciate everything that you shared with us today,
and we're gonna have to have you back the Voices
of Legacy where you listener, are building your legacy every
day that you live.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Be kind to someone and thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Thank you for listening to the Voices of the Legacy.
This is your friend. Pastor chrome Mitchell the third, your
hosts of this program. We want you to go to
WGTE dot org slash legacy to like, share, subscribe, and
hear all of our past podcast and our future podcast.
Be a friend and join with us in the Voices
(29:17):
of Legacy, where you're writing your own legacy every day
that you live.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Have a blessed
Good morning, and welcome to the Voices of Legacy. Well, morning, afternoon.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Whenever you're listening to this, we're celebrating the lives of
those that have contributed to our community here in northwestern
Ohio and around the world in some cases, many cases
to the diverse tapestry of faith and culture here in
Toledo as well. Today we're honored to have one with us,
one of well, i'd say Toledo's legends, living legends, quiet
(00:54):
humble legends, but he's a legend nonetheless. Multi Stellar award
winning producer, songwriter, musician, and minister of the gospel, known
for his long standing collaboration with the Ram Salen group.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Chris Bird. Yes, sir, Yes, sir, How you is, I'm
doing wonderful. How you is? I'm doing great? Sir? Tell
us something about yourself. Well, of course, I'm from Toledo, Ohio,
the youngest of six children, born and raised, born and
raised in Toledo. And for boys, two girls, all the
(01:28):
boys play and the girls sing. Uh. And then of
course I started playing probably about the age of four,
and you know, grew up with an organ and pano
in the house. So they all of my brothers took
lessons except me, and I was the one that just
kind of watched them and learned from them.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
You know, well that's your lesson, that was my lesson.
So was it my choice? Something you wanted to do?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Loved you? Love was my passion. I mean, while while
other kids was out playing sports, basketball, football, you were
playing the piano. They had to drag me off of
the piano.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So you you play piano, piano, organ, organ.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
A little bit of drums, bass, piano. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
So you have a diverse mixture of instruments that you play.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
What's your favorite? Uh? This piano, keyboard and keyboard. Yeah, yeah,
that's my favorite. But you know I play a little
bit of the other ones. I'm not as good as
some of these young kids and out they're they're so
multitalented they master all of them. But you know, I
mastered the piano and the organ rather than like the
(02:36):
drums or the bass and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So so the others in the studio were out of
necessity or if you have something in your mind that
you want to get out that you need to.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah. Now, as far as working in the studio, I
do programming, So you know I can program all the
instruments in the studio actually, you know, with the tap
of my fingers playing the drums and bass and all
of that. So that part is I love that too,
and that's something that I just I guess, I guess
(03:04):
I'm pretty good at it. Well, I tell you so,
I try.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
Is there anything else that you do or like to do.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I love teaching. I've been doing that recently, teaching high school.
I teach music production and so basically teaching the young
kids how to program, how to write music and produce
their own music. And that's here in Toledo. That's here
in Toledo at Rogers High School. Awesome. I'm collaborating with
(03:33):
another teacher, Daphnie Herford. She does the video and visual
graphics and all of that, and I do the audio.
So we kind of merge those two pieces together because
you know, if you can't have a good video and
poor audio, so you know, we got to make sure
the trills area that are good. And so basically, if
you know, there's kids who actually write their own music,
(03:56):
collaborate and produce it, and then once that's done, some
of the other students that are really into the video
and the graphics, they get to actually, you know, produce
a video. Wow, you know, merge those two worlds together.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
And that sounds like a lot of fun. You're running
some talent so far, Yeah, a lot some future Chris
Birds and brand challenge and.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
And the and the challenge is a lot of the kids,
you know, they want to use profanity and all that,
and so that's the challenge, trying to keep them to
keep it clean and you know, and inspirational, something possible.
And so you know, it's it's been going pretty good.
You know, every now and then you run into something.
And in one case, where this was a couple of
years ago, one of the kids you know, kept you know,
(04:45):
every now and then droppingfanity. So it's like, look, when
I told you about this, you can't keep doing this,
you know.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
So he kept doing Is he just getting excited with
the content or I mean that's that's you.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Know, his environment, that's what he's around, you know. So
so finally like, okay, look we got to talk to
your mom about this. You can't go in the booth nowhere.
You're banned from the booth, so we you know, put
tape over it. You can't go in there. So one
day me and miss Herford. We're out. We had the
sub man. Somehow he talked the sub into letting him
(05:17):
go into booth and record for substitute. So we get back,
you know, we find out he's been in there record
and we're like, what what you know? So I said,
let me go in here and see what he did.
He wrote an apology something Oh sorry, you know, mister bird.
You know I didn't mean it. Sorry, I'm sorry. You know,
(05:39):
I spelled his paint. I spelled my painting to this song.
That's why they don't be song and right, I know
I cuss up in the songs. I promise you I
won't tonight, you know. I mean. He put it together
and it's like, wow, okay, so he got our hearts.
I said, okay, didn't worked. It worked, This is a
good story.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
It worked.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
We let him right back in. So and then he
did pretty good. He didn't you know, he kept he
kept his promise. So that's good. That's good. Wow.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So when when we were getting the Chris Burg biopic.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Well, you know, I've been working on a biography for
quite some time. Uh kind of slowed way down, especially
since mischi rant yeah passed away. But I got a
lot of footage and even got him on some.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
And so you've actually had some some collaborations outside of
even the group together, haven't you. Oh yeah, yeah, he's
been on some of your albums.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Right yeah, right yeah, a lot of my Yeah, My
my very first record that I did, Attitude of Praise.
Uh he was. He was on that, a song called
Guy's Word would Never Change uh Me and him sang
on it. My second one with Chris Burden, True Victory.
He sang a few songs on there, So I think
the only one he didn't sing on was Filing. That
(07:02):
might be the only one because I think at that
time the record label was kind of making me feel like,
you know, you need rants to do this, gotcha? So
I wanted to do a project without him to let
them know, look I can stand, I'm on two feet. Yeah,
And we did that. Filing Movement was probably the biggest
(07:23):
selling record we ever did.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Well, not to get away from what you're saying, we're
about to say in a moment, but you actually wrote, well,
I don't think a lot of people know that some
music is quite a few of the songs as well.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, like with the group with
the Rand Sound Group. Yeah. Actually, probably like in nineteen
ninety six. I believe that's when I really started doing
more collaborating with Bishop Rance and the project You Make
Me want to dance with that project, and so you know,
(07:58):
he allowed me to come in and just you know,
do my thing and add you know, whatever flavors to
the ideas that he had, and so that's where the
collaboration began. And from there on he started to letting
me do more and more to where you know, he's like, okay,
you got it. You just you just tell me when
they come to the studio, you know, And whatever I
(08:20):
would write, I would either save I would try to
save room for him to write versus sometimes I would
get it off be like you know, but I still
would give him the credit, you know, as you know
that we just had that type of relationship. So you know,
that's kind of how that began, you know, because he
(08:41):
was he wanted to focus more on pastoring, yes, and
so he kind of without me even realizing it, you know,
years down the road, was like, wow, I got this
big responsibility. I didn't even realize that it was even happening.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
So how long were you with that.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That group really what he started church in nineteen eighty five.
That's when I met him, what not for the first time,
but you know, yeah, we collaborate. We got together and
I started playing for the church. And right after that
I started coming, you know, to Stephen Thoms and Ranci's
(09:16):
basement times basement and where they would rehearse. So that
was pretty much since nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
And I was playing you don't look old enough to
do anything.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
In nineteen eighty five. I mean, you know, we're not
going to touch it. I'm not going to do that today. Yeah,
you know, that's a that's a whole nother story. I
got married at seventeen, ok so, which was nineteen eighty three,
and then you know, so you.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Just you just gave it away. It's twenty twenty to
do the math for Oh my goodness. So you were
with him a long time.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And for those that are listening that you may not
be familiar, I can imagine with one of America's icons
and the late Bishop Rance Allan, he was kind of
like the Kirk Franklin before Kirk Franklin as far as
gospel music, because I remember when I was a kid,
it was a big deal. Some folks wouldn't let you
listen to rants Aum because it was just too funky.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Right right. And they would tell me stories, you know,
before I got there. They would tell me stories about
how they would be playing in church and people thought
it was too much and they'd get it a walk out,
you know. So, I mean, you know, just it's just
an honor and a pleasure to just be uh, to
have been you know, connected with them and just be
able to do.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
What I did in such an integral part. I remember
you were on the Arsenio Hall Show. Yeah, yeah, I
mean the original art.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Original Yeah, I'm like, that's grit. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome.
How was that experience back then? In all the traveling?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
That was great because you said you got married in
eighty three. Eighty three, you got with him in eighty five,
that's two years. Yeah, and from there on you were everywhere.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Yeah. So it was funny because at that time I'm
working for the county. I was I used to be
a dog ward and so oh catch up. Yep. So
we went to shoot our Senior Hall show on the weekend.
I think I left, I left, Yeah, I left work Friday,
we went out to La shot the show, and then
(11:34):
uh we were on that show. I think probably you know,
right away that same day. I was right back to
work Monday.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
My co workers are like, we saw you sit.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
How did you do that?
Speaker 2 (11:47):
You know, it's like, hey, I flew out the Magic
of Caroline.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Oh my goodness. But yeah, it was. It was a
great experience. I mean Michael Wolf, you know, he was
the band director back then, and all the all the guys,
the what do you call these? Yeah, so I got
I got to direct them. I got to direct the band,
you know. So it's great, that's right. They played with
you guys. Yeah, well yeah, yeah, I played the keys
and I was directing the band. Wow wow. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
So what has been the ups and some of the
downs of your experience professionally with the group without.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Uh well, uh, it was a lot of ups, of course,
you know, I mean just the experience being on the
stage with them, being able to you know, put the
band together. Because kind of going back, let's me go
back a little bit, because you kind of hit on
something I wanted to say and I don't want to
forget it. But as a teenager, you know when Rance
(12:44):
Thomas Eve were playing the instruments. You know. I would
go to the concerts. Rance would be playing the guitar
with his teeth in his back. He's like a rock star,
you know what I meant. But as I got with him,
after I got with them, probably about maybe five years
or so later, they decided, you know, we we want
(13:05):
you to put the band together and we're gonna stand
up and scene. You know. So that was a wonderful
experience for me just being able to you know, get
mainly the guys that were playing at the church. You know,
we basically got a chance to go travel with them
and just being out there.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
So the church band is what traveled with them.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, interesting, and I mean we were all just so
it was it was like kids in the candy store,
being out there on the road. We got to go
wherever we wanted to go where, you know, and meet
so many different people, you know, I mean, being on
the road with with them, That's how I met John
(13:45):
p Key, you know, and then from there I started
even traveling with him for a certain season. You know.
So it's just you know, Bobby Jones, you know, so
being going to the different Bobby Jones Explosions. So once
I started my group, then we started going to the
Barbile Jones Explosions and you know, connected with them. So
(14:06):
all of those experiences, you know, getting to play before
thousands of people with you know, gospel music workshops, the
big celebration of gospel, uh, you know, all of the
bt A boards and different things that we would uh
that that we were on and different artists you know.
(14:27):
So it was I guess I and that's probably why
I don't really go to many concerts today. My kids
had to make me go to the concert. They would
buy me a ticket, And I guess the reason why
is because I've always been on stage.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Yeah, it's different why I don't have to go.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
I've seen it all. I've been there, you know what
I mean. But you know, it's just it was great
now as far as the lows, I think, like in
the day like today, years ago, Oh, the music was great,
you know, I mean we were selling CDs you know,
and it was very lucrative. Whereas now it's changed, and
(15:10):
I saw it coming years ago. We would always talk
about the change that was coming to where you know,
people are downloading and then they start streaming, they stopped
making the CDs, you know, So all of those different
changes somewhat kind of is you know, it's a little
frustrating because you don't when you people don't understand, like
(15:34):
especially today, it's even worse. When you are making music.
It costs money. It costs money to do this, I mean,
and so you have to invest in yourself or somebody
else has to invest in you. Whereas you know, if
they invest in you, you still got to pay that
money back because whatever you would be getting paid, they're
(15:57):
going to get it first before they start paying royalties.
So the record company, right, record label. But for the
most part, I've been one to invest in myself first,
you know, and that's almost with any artist. A record
label wants to see you investing yourself first.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So growing up in the traditional dynamic of the music industry,
has it been hard to transition? I mean you already
have content of your own.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Yeah. Yeah. The hard part is so now you know,
record labels are voting, you know, and so a lot
of independence labels with you know, most of the artists are
you know, basically investing in themselves. Well it's because there's
not CDs to where you can make as much money
(16:42):
as you used to make. You know, with the return,
the investment has even got bigger to where you got
to pay promotional dollars to even get your stuff out there,
get it played on radio. You know, you got to
pay a lot. It costs a lot of money. And
you know people talk about pay all of it is illegal.
It's still going on. Yeah, I'm letting the cat out
(17:04):
the back. It's still going on, and especially in the
gospel music, and you can't get your stuff played a
lot of times.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
And there's not that many gospel radio stations anymore. Radio
I almost said the name of the company. There's a
particular company that owns most of them. A lot of
people don't know that. So it's kind of hard, right
getting anything out there is.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
And so they want to charge you so much money,
and then when you add it up, you know you're
not going to get it back, you know, whereas you
know years now, years before, you would have, but now
it's not coming back.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
So I hear that you make more money off of shows.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Now, that's that's that's it.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Which in the gospel industry, the show is not really
supposed to show. It's supposed to be ministry but you
got to make money at the same time, So how
do you merge all that?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
And still, well, it's it's it's a little difficult, you know.
And I'm working on some things. Now I can't that
part I can't speak too much of, but I am
working on some things as far as you know, doing
more shows and touring. But you know, that's that's where
And I think COVID kind of helped that since COVID,
(18:13):
since everybody kind of got back into, you know, going
to different places after being on lockdown. People love to
go to concerts now, yes, and so most of most
of the artists are really taking advantage of that. So
you know, if you're an artist, and you know, if
you're making music in order to make money, you got
to travel, you got to be out there.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
What was the most profound song that you've ever been
involved in?
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well, the most profound and impactful I.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Have the most downloaded, most purchased individual my song or
rants any.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
Of them or both both.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
That would be great, one with the group and one without.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I would say something about the name Jesus Yep, yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Is the number one. It is downloaded of all time
from the Rams Island group.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Right, if we go anywhere and don't sing that, I
think they was they were throwing us. We can't get
off the stage without singing that song. I don't care
where we are. Does that never get old? No? No,
And the same with Philip Movie. It's been that way,
and you know, from from the very beginning since we
(19:22):
recorded it. Even now that was a while ago, oh yeah,
that was ninety three. Wow. Yeah, and you know, I
mean sometime we might can get away with it now.
But years ago, especially when we were out touring and traveling,
we could not go anywhere without singing that song. And
we got tired of singing it. You know. The group
(19:43):
was like, why were ill sing this again? It's like, look,
this is what everybody loves. They want to hear it,
so we can't.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Not sing this song, you know, but it would seem
like you kind of get tired of singing the same song.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Right, but that, yeah, that's it, and we don't We
don't remix it so many times, you know, we try
to do it different just to make it exciting for us,
you know, but the people they want to hear like
the record actually.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah you know, yeah, yeah, and that they don't realize
some people don't realize that record.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
You know, it's not new right around. The funny thing is,
this is a question I get asked all the time,
even today, when you're gonna do something new, when when
your new project coming out, and I would always ask,
what's the last one you had? That's a good question,
and it's always feel a movie. That's usually the answer.
(20:33):
I've done ten projects since then. Okay, that's why I
need you to go get those before I do another one,
because that's new to you.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, oh my goodness. So I want to touch on something.
I think I'm going just a little bit over time,
but that's okay. The transition from traditional gospel or contemporary
gospel really is the beginning of the Ransalen group before
you ever remember, and then we have this new contemporary gospel,
so it's kind of like levels of contemporary from the traditional.
(21:05):
What has been your experience with that transition. Well, the
music is meaningful and impactful as something about the name
Jesus and other records.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Well, it's funny you ask that question. It's a great question,
and I've seen where you know, when I started, like
with Feeling Moving, that kind of set a tone for
the type of style that people wanted to hear from us.
So then as I started, you know, I've always been
kind of versatile. I've done jingles in the corporate world.
(21:40):
Then working with rants, it's kind of a different style
and true victory. I've worked with other you know, people
were doing praise and worship, and I start growing in
that area of praise and worship after we did feeling moving,
so I wanted to, you know, gravitate more towards the
praising worship. And you know, I would year people, you know, like,
(22:02):
why do you change? I needed to you know, I
need we want to hear that style, stick to that style.
You know. It's like, you can't put me in a
box now, you know, this is this is who I am,
you know. And I mean, you know, so I think
actually some of the music that God was giving me,
you know, because the thing is, many times when I'm
(22:25):
just sitting and praying, I would sit and worship at
my keyboard and you know, pray to God, talk to God,
and that's where he starts sing songs. So I had
to give whatever he gives me. This is what I'm giving,
you know.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Pastor key was my pastor in Charlotte Johnny Key, and
we had the workshop about every year and Bishop would come.
But one thing that he said at one of the workshops,
and it just stuck with me to this day, is
that every song that he's ever written was a sermon.
And when I look back at his callo, it's actually true,
matter how catchy it is, and he's actually saying some
(23:02):
order scripture.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Right exactly exactly. And that's one thing I learned from
Bischia Rants is writing from sermons many well you know
he I saw him do that, and then when we
would sit down and write songs many you know times
he would pull out, you know, some notes from a
sermon or some scripture, and so that kind of put me,
you know, in the same yeah. Same. So here's a question.
(23:25):
Do you preach? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but what keeps you grounded?
What keeps you grounded? Uh? Well, you know, the word
of God, preaching the word of God and just having
that relationship, you know, prayer. And I'm grateful for a
praying wife. You know. She she's one who praised me
(23:47):
through so many different things.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
And both of y'all look like teenagers, so it must
be working.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, oh yeah, definitely that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, So a praying wife helps keep you grounded and
to your experience at worship center and your your your
wonderful pastor and friend of the family as well. How's
that experience been in I think that's part of what
keeps you grounded.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
That's definitely what keeps me grounded. You know, being there
has really taught me to be stronger in my worship
and to God. And that's that's where that you know,
that real authentic you know about to say yeah, because
you know, it's funny. Once I came and start playing
for Bishop H. McKinstry, the things that I the songs
(24:33):
and the style that I would play in some of
the songs that I was doing at that time. When
I first came, they weren't working for that house. So
that caused me to write more songs for that house.
I started. You know, it's like, I would, you know,
what what is this? All the stuff I've been playing
songs that I'm a teacher. They're not working here. What do
(24:54):
you want me to do? And I'm just laying before
God and acting him. You know, He started giving me
songs songs for that house, and most of the songs
for the house was working even for the nations. You know,
we would we would sing them in the house. They
would work, you know, the Holy Ghost, cucumbentt just and
it was great have a gospel experience. And then you
know they even work for you know, recording as well.
(25:17):
So that's one of the things I appreciate, you know,
and writing from summer her sermons. Yeah, I mean just
just getting so much when you get when you get fed,
you know, good food. You know you're gonna you're gonna
abundance of the heart mouth speaks. So whatever you know,
you put in, whatever you put it, you take in,
(25:40):
is gonna come out.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
And that's more than being just a musician. You know that,
that's that gospel experience that people seek out of gospel,
even people some folks that don't even believe they get
that feeling. I don't even know what it is, but
that that that's it's a it's a great thing. But
without laboring the hour, if you could say anything, not
(26:01):
just to young people, but to our listeners, what would
you think your legacy is already? What would you like
for it to be?
Speaker 1 (26:09):
I would say just being authentic and authentic worshiper and
you know, letting God, you know, use you in the
gift that he's blessed you with, whether it be music, preaching,
or singing or playing basketball whatever, you know, but you know,
being to where you can really touch lives with your gift,
(26:36):
using your gift to the best of your ability. And
one thing I always remember a teacher told me in
high school about the one with the five talents, you know,
and whatever God gives you, you got to put it
the use and you got to increase it. So I
want that to be my legacy that you know, God
(26:57):
gave me the gift, the gifts that I have have,
and I was one to cultivate it, to maximize it,
and to try and increase it so that I can
get gain more from it, you know, and instead of
going and burying it, and you know, to where guys
are not pleased with that you lose, and you lose it,
you're gonna give it to somebody else.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
If yeah, that's awesome, that's awesome. Well hopefully we can
have you back here. And I got to ask you
one last question, where are you gonna do something new?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Well?
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Uh, and don't ask me how many I got, because
I got all you.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Got okay, okay, well, I was just thinking yesterday about
some new stuff that I could do, but I want
to let that cat out the bag. But we did,
just did. We did do something. And this is you know,
it's not a gospel project. It's a school project. We
(27:56):
did a song with our school, Rochester High School, and
you sent some of the kids collaborated on it with us.
We got the principal, Missus Rodder Jamison. Shout out to her.
She's on the song. We got the video and everything,
and we just finished. I was just sharing with Christopher.
So it's all finished, and so I'll let you check
(28:16):
it out before we leave here today. Okay, available on YouTube,
not yet, not yet. We workingize coming real song.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Thank you so much for coming with us on the
journey of discussion here on the Voices of Legacy. Appreciate
your transparency. I appreciate everything that you shared with us today,
and we're gonna have to have you back the Voices
of Legacy where you listener, are building your legacy every
day that you live.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Be kind to someone and thank you for listening.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Thank you for listening to the Voices of the Legacy.
This is your friend. Pastor chrome Mitchell the third, your
hosts of this program. We want you to go to
WGTE dot org slash legacy to like, share, subscribe, and
hear all of our past podcast and our future podcast.
Be a friend and join with us in the Voices
(29:17):
of Legacy, where you're writing your own legacy every day
that you live.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Have a blessed
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