June 30, 2020 • 20 mins
Spurred on by an article from Scott Thomas, formerly the president of Acts 29, A diverse, global family of church-planting churches, Steve and Jeff continue their discussion of important questions for potential Church Planters.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Equipping and encouraging church planters everywhere.This is the Church Planting Today podcast with
Steve Chagrin and Jeff Hoagland, Usefulconversations for those aimed at winning others into
relationship with Christ. Hey, everyone, Welcome to church Planning Today, thepodcast
for church Planning dot Com. Churchplan dot Com is for current and future
(00:25):
church planners, existing church leaders,and those wanting to see renewal within the
local church. My name is JeffHoagland and I am joined by my partner
in crime, Steve Schobrin. Hey, Jackman, going to be with you
Excited today man? Yes, yes, and so Steve. You know,
on our last episode we were talkingabout an upcoming blog post twenty questions for
(00:48):
potential church planners, and we startedoff at number one. We got all
the way down to number four.We're not going to go through all twenty,
but I thought it would be coolto just jump down to number ten
because number ten is I think it'sI think number ten is a whole lot
(01:10):
to unpack. And so for thosewho of you who may not have listened
to the previous episode, what it'sabout is, you know, these are
questions that you should ask prior toplanting a church. And I would say
these are really important questions, especiallyin the role of the lead pastor.
(01:33):
And so anyways, let's just jumpin here. This is number ten and
the question to ask is am Ihealthy physically, emotionally, financially, spiritually,
relationally? And I believe that oneis supposed to say meritally or your
marriage is it? Is it healthy? Yeah, there's a little miss misspelling
(02:00):
there I need to fix. Butanyways, so there it is, Stee,
there's the question, Yeah, amI healthy physically? Well, you
know when you say healthy again,that word, I think it's something you
strive for versus an arrival point.And finally after I'm healthy physically, but
(02:23):
I you know, it's a thingof going back to and seeking to,
you know, to aspire to getbetter physically. For example, for me,
it's difficult to sometimes to get ina routine. We actually have a
freebie to a health club and wedon't go very often, but we we
(02:45):
do walk every day at least amile, sometimes two if we go crazy,
three miles and then that's you know, not that long. It's probably
less than an hour, depending onyou know, if you stop along the
way, or whatever. But Ithink you got to find something, find
something that you can do that getsyou a little another step or two down
(03:05):
the path of physical health. Yeah. Yeah, you know, one of
the questions I often ask church planners, especially church planters that are on there,
you know, second or third churchplants, or a long time pastor
who is is planting his first churchand he might be a little up in
(03:25):
age, you know, I justasked them, you know, how how
do they feel they are health wise? Because it's it takes a lot out
of you, or it can,and I guess it really depends on the
team that you have behind you,and maybe the network or the denomination that's
(03:46):
that's supporting you or not supporting youas far as how much you need to
do. But I just remember,you know, in the majority of the
church is that I planted, westarted with zero people, zero money,
and so I was the I wasthe worship team, I was the preacher,
I was the greeter, I wasthe janitor. You know, So
(04:12):
within that it I just remember Ihave a saying now, I said,
I'm going home to assume the position. Position. Sometimes it's the fetal position,
but other times it's just the youknow, horizontal. I'm I got
a sleep because I'm tired. Soso yeah, being being healthy physically is
(04:38):
really important. Another question I've askedanother church planner recently, and he's an
older fella. When I say older, he's my age. Yeah, he's
fifty some and actually he's a pastor. He's not a church planner, but
he had planted in the in thepast. I asked him, do you
have another church plant in you hm? And he was very real with me.
(05:03):
He said, I don't know.I don't know, because you know
the the churches of the past,and he remembers his initial church plant and
how hard it was, and sohe has had some self awareness there.
He was able to say, Idon't know. And then he got spiritual.
(05:26):
He said, well, if theLord told me, if the Lord
told me too, I would ofcourse, you know, and that's a
gimme. But I love that hewas real, you know, and he
took that into serious consideration. Let'stalk about the emotional told that you might
(05:46):
have, or you know, theemotional aspect of church planting. You know,
there's a you know one thing thatyou kind of alluded to, but
I there are studies that have gonethe longevity of a person based on their
profession, and typically pastors live shorterlifespans. And I think part of it
(06:11):
is certainly physical. And I've heardnumbers and I want to toss it out
there, but it's, uh,it's you know, not remarkable maybe,
but it's, uh, it's there. And we're trying to encourage Steve.
Yeah, the encouragement I'm getting decourmentis take care of yourself. You don't
read those things and believe them,but at the same time, you got
(06:33):
to spit some time into it.And uh, in terms of emotional I
think that might be even at amore core level that will affect everything else
and physicality and so forth. Sowhat does it take to be emotionally healthy?
Well, I you know, forfor me, on occasion, it's
been going to a therapist and youknow, kind of clearing the air if
(06:55):
nothing else, going every once ina while for a you know, we
have yearly checkups physically, you know, if you're being dumped on on a
regular basis, you're being disappointed ona regular basis as a pastor, and
you can only take so much untilyou're the funnel that e input emotionally gets
clogged up and it starts to spellover right right now, That's good,
(07:16):
Steve, because we all need someoneto speak to, whether that's a therapist,
whether that's a coach, a mentor, or spiritual father. Yeah,
I think we need to be ableto vent and share and confess to someone
because I know, for me,even seemingly small things, I guess I'm
(07:42):
very sensitive to people's tones in theirvoice and micro expressions. Even I guess
I'm weird, maybe a little bittoo extreme in that regard, and so
I wish I was a little bitmore thick skinned, you know. And
when a person would leave the church, I wouldn't, you know, hurt
so much. But the reality is, you know, and especially in small
(08:05):
church world, when a person leaves, ah, it hurts, and so
multiply that times x amount of years, and man, oh man, it
does take a toll. But youknow, going into the church plant,
(08:28):
if you are a wreck going intothe church plant, you might want to
rethink it. And in the previouspodcast, I said, it doesn't necessarily
have to be that you are thelead pastor in in that church plant.
(08:48):
There are a lot of supporting rolesthat are very honorable and so if you've
if you're coming out some hurts,maybe rethink before launching into another pastorate.
Anyways, that's not saying you can'tbe a church planter or whatever, but
you need to take care of theyou know, one of my friends said
(09:09):
that most of his effect a churchplanter friends had a limp, and I
think that's you know, there arelimps that go away, and there are
limps that are good reminders. Andso if you've got an emotional limp or
what have you, I've got aphysical limp myself. I describe my legs
as being kind of flexible cement onoccasion, and it's been like that for
(09:33):
years since I had a horrible medicalaccident. But at the same time,
I think that there are limps thatI have that are probably God given.
That are you know, And sowith me, every step I take is
a reminder. Don't forget, don'tforget, don't forget meaning into God,
letting God speak to you, speakthrough you and yourness. I'm strong.
(09:58):
That is so good, that's sogood. What about being healthy financially,
Steve, I mean insight on thatI know, as far as like missions
and the mission field and the missionariesthat I've spoken with or future missionaries.
The one thing that keeps them fromactually going into the mission field full time
(10:24):
is they are financially strapped. Whetherthat's some student loan debt or they just
got crazy with the credit card.Yeah, well, you don't want to
enter into a church plant with,you know, any kind of significant debt,
negative debt. Put it that way. Ye, there's decent debt,
could be a house that's going toescalate in value, and bad debt very
(10:48):
well, maybe the wrong car andthe car that costs more than your house
with the sixty month payment. Youknow, but I'm I'm kidding a little
bit. But I've never bought anew car. I bought one new car
one time and that was it.I was not satisfied with about eighteen things
with it, but especially the moneypart. But you know, absolutely,
(11:13):
you know, you don't want tobe going in with a limp financially because
that that limp probably will spill overinto your leadership in a variety of ways,
into your vision certainly. And yeah, and so you know, you
know, Jeff, touching on thisfor a second, I think that we're
inning into a new era. Nobig surprise in the church it's always been
(11:35):
liquid, but we're now kind ofa whole new deal in the last bit
with the umpteen different things converging rightnow as we record this in mid twenty
twenty. And so here's the thought. I think that a lot of people
in ministry are going to have aside hustle going on from almost from now
on, because the idea is notvery efficient to go back into always be
(11:56):
worrying about finances, getting people tofundraise, fundraised, fundraise, and you
know, you know the thing aboutthat is that momentum creates financial presence very
often more often than not. Getthe momentum going and they'll be finances there.
Again. John Wember he said itlike this. He says, the
(12:16):
coin will be in the fish's mouth, and so as people show up,
they bring coins, and you know, it's the the metaphor about paying taxes
that Jesus talked about with Peter.You know, open the fishings mouth,
there'll be a coin in there.And I think that's you know, kind
of the financial momentum of the economythat I think we need to uh,
I think through you know, momentumleads to the finances. Yeah, amen,
(12:37):
And I love the fact that youare very pragmatic. When you planted
the church in Cincinnati, you know, you know that you were called.
You knew that you were called tothat city, and you're going to do
whatever it took to reach that city. And for a time you were you
were bivocational. Yeah, and thatthat helps you in a lot of different
(13:01):
ways financially, but also as faras the gathering aspect and networking with certain
people you're able to connect and invite. Yeah, and so that that's pretty
cool. You know. I spentthe most of my career is bivocational.
And then we met a brother inDallas who who started speaking these words.
(13:24):
He called it co vocational, andI love that. The co vocational that
means a lot of people who arebivocational, they're they're, you know,
working at a side hustle just untilthey can be full time. And the
co vocational aspect of it is Ithink the heart of it is you are
(13:46):
working another job on purpose and thatis part of the plan. And I
think that's what you're actually referring towhen you say you know they have that
side hustle, because you know,different things going on financially and what we've
seen. Again, I don't wantto get into stats because we're here to
(14:07):
encourage Dave. Ye, well,in the end we will. Yeah,
but but yeah, so it's noit's no secret that you know, through
the whole COVID thing that that churcheshave not been able to meet and some
people, you know, have losttheir jobs and and you know, a
(14:30):
tithe of zero is zero, soyou know, the church giving is probably
down, and it's probably had rippleeffects all the way down. And so
I agree with you. You knowa lot of folks will probably be entering
into that bi vocational role or theco vocational role of church planting and pasturing
(14:52):
in general. And I mean,Paul did it, so we should be
okay with it too. Yeah.You know. So my favorite church planner
stories are from people that they theyjust at times they just had to stay
in there by faith and they keptworking and and you know some of the
guys that are really interesting, theyeven as a pastorate happening, momentous church,
(15:16):
they still have a sight of somegoing on because to me, it's
an entrepreneurial part of their brain.Yes, if you're not a little bit
of an entrepreneur, as a churchplanter, then you need to go back
and become one. You know,I believe that. I've Alfullys said that
some people think I'm crazy, butI said, you know, the the
(15:37):
entrepreneurial, in the in the apostolic, they kind of parallel in a lot
of different ways. And and youknow, some people when I use the
word apostolic, the kind of youthink on me a little bit. But
anyways, I hope they know myheart. Hope our listeners know my heart
when I say that, Steve,let's hit one more here. Okay,
(15:58):
I think it's I think it's veryimportant. And I think the reference here
is a healthy marriage? Is mymarriage healthy? And I you know,
I feel like it's almost a twofor you know, when you're in ministry
(16:19):
and the spouse is in it aswell, and if they are, you
know, if they have any reluctancetowards being in ministry, towards starting a
church, I think it might besomething that you need to really listen to
(16:41):
and take a step back and getsome perspective. Well, and you know,
part of it is also the twofor a thing. I love that
metaphor that I think if there's analignment and there's an excitement of stepping into
it. It's felt throughout the wholething through the senior leader, and whatever
(17:03):
he does will be backed up bythere's a spiritual principle there. If they're
on the same page, this canbe very difficult to have spiritually. And
I got touch you if you pricedthes two is that sometimes you run into
a couple where the wife or itcould be the way around, I guess,
but the wife is more reluctant.And one of my friends actually had
(17:26):
a pretty happening church, but itwas stuck at a certain point because his
wife this was not into it foryears and it was a lid on the
whole thing. So once we getour spouses on the same page, or
you know, entering into it onthe same page, it's, uh,
this guy's the limit and it's exciting. Yeah. Yeah, amen, Amen,
(17:48):
And I know I know some folkslike that as well, actually,
Steve, So that's a that's agreat point. Gosh. Any any last
thoughts on a healthy marriage going intoa church plant? Yeah, you know.
All this drill book out I thinkis helpful is by Pete Scazaro.
(18:11):
I've spoken at church a couple oftimes. Really interesting churches got there in
the middle of Queen's very difficult,very diverse area there, but he is.
He's written a number of books calledThe Emotionally Healthy and then fill in
the blank. It was one aboutchurches. But I know that the the
one that I'd recommend is The EmotionallyHealthy Leader, like Pete Scazero and see,
(18:33):
I haven't read it, but I'veseen it. Yeah. Well again,
it's a spectrum versus a black andwhite. It's not a square.
It's more of a central point thatyou move toward. The more you're towards
that point, the more you arean emotionally healthy person. Gotcha. I
love that. Yeah, So Iwould say that'd be a fantastic book to
check out and to read. Andas we optionally healthy leader, right,
(18:59):
as we often say, leaders arereaders. That's it without a dollar.
Amen, Well, Steve, weare out of time, believe it or
not. So wow, we spentthe last eighteen minutes on that one question.
Am my healthy physically, emotionally,financially good? And we even get
(19:21):
to spiritually relationally, but we didhit the marriage part. So amen,
guys, thanks for listening. Untilnext time. We just want to let
you know that we're praying for you. We believe in you, and we
believe that you're making a difference.And what do I say here, Steve,
(19:44):
keep on keeping on? You knowwhat I say at the when I
signed books, I write the samething every time, walk by love,
walk by love. There we go. That's our new sign off. Until
next time, walk by love.God bless you guys. Take care.
You've been listening to the Church PlantingToday podcast with Steve Chagrin and Jeff Hoagland.
(20:07):
Be sure to share and subscribe whereveryou listen to podcasts. Connect for
free outreach articles, ideas, andresources at kindness dot com and church Planting dot com
Equipping and encouraging church planters everywhere.This is the Church Planting Today podcast with
Steve Chagrin and Jeff Hoagland, Usefulconversations for those aimed at winning others into
relationship with Christ. Hey, everyone, Welcome to church Planning Today, thepodcast
for church Planning dot Com. Churchplan dot Com is for current and future
(00:25):
church planners, existing church leaders,and those wanting to see renewal within the
local church. My name is JeffHoagland and I am joined by my partner
in crime, Steve Schobrin. Hey, Jackman, going to be with you
Excited today man? Yes, yes, and so Steve. You know,
on our last episode we were talkingabout an upcoming blog post twenty questions for
(00:48):
potential church planners, and we startedoff at number one. We got all
the way down to number four.We're not going to go through all twenty,
but I thought it would be coolto just jump down to number ten
because number ten is I think it'sI think number ten is a whole lot
(01:10):
to unpack. And so for thosewho of you who may not have listened
to the previous episode, what it'sabout is, you know, these are
questions that you should ask prior toplanting a church. And I would say
these are really important questions, especiallyin the role of the lead pastor.
(01:33):
And so anyways, let's just jumpin here. This is number ten and
the question to ask is am Ihealthy physically, emotionally, financially, spiritually,
relationally? And I believe that oneis supposed to say meritally or your
marriage is it? Is it healthy? Yeah, there's a little miss misspelling
(02:00):
there I need to fix. Butanyways, so there it is, Stee,
there's the question, Yeah, amI healthy physically? Well, you
know when you say healthy again,that word, I think it's something you
strive for versus an arrival point.And finally after I'm healthy physically, but
(02:23):
I you know, it's a thingof going back to and seeking to,
you know, to aspire to getbetter physically. For example, for me,
it's difficult to sometimes to get ina routine. We actually have a
freebie to a health club and wedon't go very often, but we we
(02:45):
do walk every day at least amile, sometimes two if we go crazy,
three miles and then that's you know, not that long. It's probably
less than an hour, depending onyou know, if you stop along the
way, or whatever. But Ithink you got to find something, find
something that you can do that getsyou a little another step or two down
(03:05):
the path of physical health. Yeah. Yeah, you know, one of
the questions I often ask church planners, especially church planters that are on there,
you know, second or third churchplants, or a long time pastor
who is is planting his first churchand he might be a little up in
(03:25):
age, you know, I justasked them, you know, how how
do they feel they are health wise? Because it's it takes a lot out
of you, or it can,and I guess it really depends on the
team that you have behind you,and maybe the network or the denomination that's
(03:46):
that's supporting you or not supporting youas far as how much you need to
do. But I just remember,you know, in the majority of the
church is that I planted, westarted with zero people, zero money,
and so I was the I wasthe worship team, I was the preacher,
I was the greeter, I wasthe janitor. You know, So
(04:12):
within that it I just remember Ihave a saying now, I said,
I'm going home to assume the position. Position. Sometimes it's the fetal position,
but other times it's just the youknow, horizontal. I'm I got
a sleep because I'm tired. Soso yeah, being being healthy physically is
(04:38):
really important. Another question I've askedanother church planner recently, and he's an
older fella. When I say older, he's my age. Yeah, he's
fifty some and actually he's a pastor. He's not a church planner, but
he had planted in the in thepast. I asked him, do you
have another church plant in you hm? And he was very real with me.
(05:03):
He said, I don't know.I don't know, because you know
the the churches of the past,and he remembers his initial church plant and
how hard it was, and sohe has had some self awareness there.
He was able to say, Idon't know. And then he got spiritual.
(05:26):
He said, well, if theLord told me, if the Lord
told me too, I would ofcourse, you know, and that's a
gimme. But I love that hewas real, you know, and he
took that into serious consideration. Let'stalk about the emotional told that you might
(05:46):
have, or you know, theemotional aspect of church planting. You know,
there's a you know one thing thatyou kind of alluded to, but
I there are studies that have gonethe longevity of a person based on their
profession, and typically pastors live shorterlifespans. And I think part of it
(06:11):
is certainly physical. And I've heardnumbers and I want to toss it out
there, but it's, uh,it's you know, not remarkable maybe,
but it's, uh, it's there. And we're trying to encourage Steve.
Yeah, the encouragement I'm getting decourmentis take care of yourself. You don't
read those things and believe them,but at the same time, you got
(06:33):
to spit some time into it.And uh, in terms of emotional I
think that might be even at amore core level that will affect everything else
and physicality and so forth. Sowhat does it take to be emotionally healthy?
Well, I you know, forfor me, on occasion, it's
been going to a therapist and youknow, kind of clearing the air if
(06:55):
nothing else, going every once ina while for a you know, we
have yearly checkups physically, you know, if you're being dumped on on a
regular basis, you're being disappointed ona regular basis as a pastor, and
you can only take so much untilyou're the funnel that e input emotionally gets
clogged up and it starts to spellover right right now, That's good,
(07:16):
Steve, because we all need someoneto speak to, whether that's a therapist,
whether that's a coach, a mentor, or spiritual father. Yeah,
I think we need to be ableto vent and share and confess to someone
because I know, for me,even seemingly small things, I guess I'm
(07:42):
very sensitive to people's tones in theirvoice and micro expressions. Even I guess
I'm weird, maybe a little bittoo extreme in that regard, and so
I wish I was a little bitmore thick skinned, you know. And
when a person would leave the church, I wouldn't, you know, hurt
so much. But the reality is, you know, and especially in small
(08:05):
church world, when a person leaves, ah, it hurts, and so
multiply that times x amount of years, and man, oh man, it
does take a toll. But youknow, going into the church plant,
(08:28):
if you are a wreck going intothe church plant, you might want to
rethink it. And in the previouspodcast, I said, it doesn't necessarily
have to be that you are thelead pastor in in that church plant.
(08:48):
There are a lot of supporting rolesthat are very honorable and so if you've
if you're coming out some hurts,maybe rethink before launching into another pastorate.
Anyways, that's not saying you can'tbe a church planter or whatever, but
you need to take care of theyou know, one of my friends said
(09:09):
that most of his effect a churchplanter friends had a limp, and I
think that's you know, there arelimps that go away, and there are
limps that are good reminders. Andso if you've got an emotional limp or
what have you, I've got aphysical limp myself. I describe my legs
as being kind of flexible cement onoccasion, and it's been like that for
(09:33):
years since I had a horrible medicalaccident. But at the same time,
I think that there are limps thatI have that are probably God given.
That are you know, And sowith me, every step I take is
a reminder. Don't forget, don'tforget, don't forget meaning into God,
letting God speak to you, speakthrough you and yourness. I'm strong.
(09:58):
That is so good, that's sogood. What about being healthy financially,
Steve, I mean insight on thatI know, as far as like missions
and the mission field and the missionariesthat I've spoken with or future missionaries.
The one thing that keeps them fromactually going into the mission field full time
(10:24):
is they are financially strapped. Whetherthat's some student loan debt or they just
got crazy with the credit card.Yeah, well, you don't want to
enter into a church plant with,you know, any kind of significant debt,
negative debt. Put it that way. Ye, there's decent debt,
could be a house that's going toescalate in value, and bad debt very
(10:48):
well, maybe the wrong car andthe car that costs more than your house
with the sixty month payment. Youknow, but I'm I'm kidding a little
bit. But I've never bought anew car. I bought one new car
one time and that was it.I was not satisfied with about eighteen things
with it, but especially the moneypart. But you know, absolutely,
(11:13):
you know, you don't want tobe going in with a limp financially because
that that limp probably will spill overinto your leadership in a variety of ways,
into your vision certainly. And yeah, and so you know, you
know, Jeff, touching on thisfor a second, I think that we're
inning into a new era. Nobig surprise in the church it's always been
(11:35):
liquid, but we're now kind ofa whole new deal in the last bit
with the umpteen different things converging rightnow as we record this in mid twenty
twenty. And so here's the thought. I think that a lot of people
in ministry are going to have aside hustle going on from almost from now
on, because the idea is notvery efficient to go back into always be
(11:56):
worrying about finances, getting people tofundraise, fundraised, fundraise, and you
know, you know the thing aboutthat is that momentum creates financial presence very
often more often than not. Getthe momentum going and they'll be finances there.
Again. John Wember he said itlike this. He says, the
(12:16):
coin will be in the fish's mouth, and so as people show up,
they bring coins, and you know, it's the the metaphor about paying taxes
that Jesus talked about with Peter.You know, open the fishings mouth,
there'll be a coin in there.And I think that's you know, kind
of the financial momentum of the economythat I think we need to uh,
I think through you know, momentumleads to the finances. Yeah, amen,
(12:37):
And I love the fact that youare very pragmatic. When you planted
the church in Cincinnati, you know, you know that you were called.
You knew that you were called tothat city, and you're going to do
whatever it took to reach that city. And for a time you were you
were bivocational. Yeah, and thatthat helps you in a lot of different
(13:01):
ways financially, but also as faras the gathering aspect and networking with certain
people you're able to connect and invite. Yeah, and so that that's pretty
cool. You know. I spentthe most of my career is bivocational.
And then we met a brother inDallas who who started speaking these words.
(13:24):
He called it co vocational, andI love that. The co vocational that
means a lot of people who arebivocational, they're they're, you know,
working at a side hustle just untilthey can be full time. And the
co vocational aspect of it is Ithink the heart of it is you are
(13:46):
working another job on purpose and thatis part of the plan. And I
think that's what you're actually referring towhen you say you know they have that
side hustle, because you know,different things going on financially and what we've
seen. Again, I don't wantto get into stats because we're here to
(14:07):
encourage Dave. Ye, well,in the end we will. Yeah,
but but yeah, so it's noit's no secret that you know, through
the whole COVID thing that that churcheshave not been able to meet and some
people, you know, have losttheir jobs and and you know, a
(14:30):
tithe of zero is zero, soyou know, the church giving is probably
down, and it's probably had rippleeffects all the way down. And so
I agree with you. You knowa lot of folks will probably be entering
into that bi vocational role or theco vocational role of church planting and pasturing
(14:52):
in general. And I mean,Paul did it, so we should be
okay with it too. Yeah.You know. So my favorite church planner
stories are from people that they theyjust at times they just had to stay
in there by faith and they keptworking and and you know some of the
guys that are really interesting, theyeven as a pastorate happening, momentous church,
(15:16):
they still have a sight of somegoing on because to me, it's
an entrepreneurial part of their brain.Yes, if you're not a little bit
of an entrepreneur, as a churchplanter, then you need to go back
and become one. You know,I believe that. I've Alfullys said that
some people think I'm crazy, butI said, you know, the the
(15:37):
entrepreneurial, in the in the apostolic, they kind of parallel in a lot
of different ways. And and youknow, some people when I use the
word apostolic, the kind of youthink on me a little bit. But
anyways, I hope they know myheart. Hope our listeners know my heart
when I say that, Steve,let's hit one more here. Okay,
(15:58):
I think it's I think it's veryimportant. And I think the reference here
is a healthy marriage? Is mymarriage healthy? And I you know,
I feel like it's almost a twofor you know, when you're in ministry
(16:19):
and the spouse is in it aswell, and if they are, you
know, if they have any reluctancetowards being in ministry, towards starting a
church, I think it might besomething that you need to really listen to
(16:41):
and take a step back and getsome perspective. Well, and you know,
part of it is also the twofor a thing. I love that
metaphor that I think if there's analignment and there's an excitement of stepping into
it. It's felt throughout the wholething through the senior leader, and whatever
(17:03):
he does will be backed up bythere's a spiritual principle there. If they're
on the same page, this canbe very difficult to have spiritually. And
I got touch you if you pricedthes two is that sometimes you run into
a couple where the wife or itcould be the way around, I guess,
but the wife is more reluctant.And one of my friends actually had
(17:26):
a pretty happening church, but itwas stuck at a certain point because his
wife this was not into it foryears and it was a lid on the
whole thing. So once we getour spouses on the same page, or
you know, entering into it onthe same page, it's, uh,
this guy's the limit and it's exciting. Yeah. Yeah, amen, Amen,
(17:48):
And I know I know some folkslike that as well, actually,
Steve, So that's a that's agreat point. Gosh. Any any last
thoughts on a healthy marriage going intoa church plant? Yeah, you know.
All this drill book out I thinkis helpful is by Pete Scazaro.
(18:11):
I've spoken at church a couple oftimes. Really interesting churches got there in
the middle of Queen's very difficult,very diverse area there, but he is.
He's written a number of books calledThe Emotionally Healthy and then fill in
the blank. It was one aboutchurches. But I know that the the
one that I'd recommend is The EmotionallyHealthy Leader, like Pete Scazero and see,
(18:33):
I haven't read it, but I'veseen it. Yeah. Well again,
it's a spectrum versus a black andwhite. It's not a square.
It's more of a central point thatyou move toward. The more you're towards
that point, the more you arean emotionally healthy person. Gotcha. I
love that. Yeah, So Iwould say that'd be a fantastic book to
check out and to read. Andas we optionally healthy leader, right,
(18:59):
as we often say, leaders arereaders. That's it without a dollar.
Amen, Well, Steve, weare out of time, believe it or
not. So wow, we spentthe last eighteen minutes on that one question.
Am my healthy physically, emotionally,financially good? And we even get
(19:21):
to spiritually relationally, but we didhit the marriage part. So amen,
guys, thanks for listening. Untilnext time. We just want to let
you know that we're praying for you. We believe in you, and we
believe that you're making a difference.And what do I say here, Steve,
(19:44):
keep on keeping on? You knowwhat I say at the when I
signed books, I write the samething every time, walk by love,
walk by love. There we go. That's our new sign off. Until
next time, walk by love.God bless you guys. Take care.
You've been listening to the Church PlantingToday podcast with Steve Chagrin and Jeff Hoagland.
(20:07):
Be sure to share and subscribe whereveryou listen to podcasts. Connect for
free outreach articles, ideas, andresources at kindness dot com and church Planting dot com
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