July 2, 2025 • 67 mins
In this episode, I sit down with writer/director Graeme Whifler, the twisted mind behind cult favorites like Dr. Giggles, Deadly End, and the utterly bizarre Sonny Boy (1989) — a film so strange, they shot parts of it with David Carradine in drag, playing a mute woman raising a feral child… and that’s not even the weirdest part.
We dive into Graeme’s early love for the macabre, how his fascination with the strange and unsettling shaped his career, and how he broke into the film industry with a passion for pushing boundaries.
Graeme opens up about:
🩸 His unconventional journey into horror & filmmaking
🩸 The strange, unbelievable stories behind Sonny Boy
🩸 How he first conceived Dr. Giggles and why the final film wasn’t the twisted vision he imagined
🩸 The hidden stories and shocking facts even die-hard fans don’t know about Dr. Giggles
🩸 His years-long mission to finally bring that darker, more disturbing vision to life with Deadly End (2005)
🩸 His love of cinema, photography, and what drives him as a creator
🩸 Incredible advice for aspiring filmmakers and horror storytellers
If you’re a fan of cult horror, behind-the-scenes madness, or just love hearing from creators who walk the darker side of cinema, this is one conversation you don’t want to miss.
If you enjoyed this - Check out my other content here - https://linktr.ee/FirstClassHorror
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/class-horror-cast--4295531/support.
We dive into Graeme’s early love for the macabre, how his fascination with the strange and unsettling shaped his career, and how he broke into the film industry with a passion for pushing boundaries.
Graeme opens up about:
🩸 His unconventional journey into horror & filmmaking
🩸 The strange, unbelievable stories behind Sonny Boy
🩸 How he first conceived Dr. Giggles and why the final film wasn’t the twisted vision he imagined
🩸 The hidden stories and shocking facts even die-hard fans don’t know about Dr. Giggles
🩸 His years-long mission to finally bring that darker, more disturbing vision to life with Deadly End (2005)
🩸 His love of cinema, photography, and what drives him as a creator
🩸 Incredible advice for aspiring filmmakers and horror storytellers
If you’re a fan of cult horror, behind-the-scenes madness, or just love hearing from creators who walk the darker side of cinema, this is one conversation you don’t want to miss.
If you enjoyed this - Check out my other content here - https://linktr.ee/FirstClassHorror
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/class-horror-cast--4295531/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You can run, but you can't die from the class hardcast.
Hunting you from the Emerald Isle, your host Aaron Doyle
takes you on a journey to the depths of horror
with exclusive interviews, horror news, reviews and more. Tickets Please
you were about to Hunterer the Theater of the mad
(00:22):
Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to the show. It's a pleasure and an honor
to have you on. How are you doing today, sir?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm doing good California.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I know, right, I can kind of I could kind
of tell I'm here in the southeast of Ireland, in
a place that they call the Sunny Southeast, and we
had two weeks of sun and then it's rained for
the last ten days strace.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
So yeah, well it's against the latter rain a lot.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I don't know whether some people tell me that all
you would get bored of it if you lived in
La or near La or the surrounding areas, because it's
always sunny, and I'm like, m.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Would I get border of that? Though? Well, yeah, you would, don't.
Come fuck it's it is pretty nice and it's in
the ocean's are in the mountains are here.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I do like the sound of that. To be honest,
if we can go back to the start for a minute,
can you do you remember the first time you were
ever scared by a piece of media, whether it be
a film, TV, show, book, whatever, it might be comic anything.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
The first thing that really scared me were my dreams. Interesting,
but the first probably the first movie and I saw
it on TV. It was clips from the original Acculent
when that was so creepy mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
When you say your dreams, was there any because I've
had I think I've only had that answer once before.
And somebody said that they had a reoccurring dream where
like there was several things that would constantly kind of
pop up. Was that the way for you or was
it just happening?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah? Yeah, I'd have this dream that, uh, my parents
would come in my room and they were smiling and
all that, but parents were coming in there to take
me and then they were gonna beat me, cook me
and eating. I don't know what triggered it, but I
(02:32):
know it will always happened on a Tuesday, And the
dreams would go that all of a sudden lose their color.
They'd be brown and beige, and I knew in my dream.
I was having this dream because it was Tuesday, and
I'd eat round beef both figure and then there there
(02:52):
would be the Smiley parents who were actually it's kind
of like Hansel and Gretelly. Yeah, you mean.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So from that point then, would you have been a
kid or a teen who was into anything scary or like?
Did you have a particular interest in film or a
particular genre.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
As a kid. Not really, but I did like scary things.
I mean, wait, what dear grandmother, she knew me pretty
wells for Christmas was a little kid. She gave me
a shrunken head nice gonna really like? Yeah, I always
(03:38):
you know, they go, oh, that's rare attracted to the
very dark things.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Did that carry her?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Obviously it probably did to a degree. And you got
you got your starts a little bit well, I don't
want to say a little bit differently, but you got
your start directing music videos and stuff like that. Right,
How did that? Like, how does one come to that?
Was it a case of the directing and stuff interested
(04:11):
you or was it the music that kind of drew
you to that that profession.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I've gone to film school, So I was a little kid,
I kind of wanted to be in. I didn't think
too much. I didn't know what I wanted. I took
photography and loved that, went to film school and then
couldn't get a job anywhere. So as a house painter,
and an old guy from high school came to stay
(04:39):
at my house. As living in San Cisco, he needed
a place to stay in a bad way, and so
he came over and then he invited me over to
this this warehouse. Were we friends. Now, what I did
know at the time is the reason he was at
my house was he was a cocaine dealer and he
(05:04):
owed all these people money, ripping people up. But he
had two pounds of coke. Started this warehouse where these
artists live, and so he'd keep going over to that
warehouse to get cold. And so he introduced me to
me of those that turned out to be the band,
the Resident. So I started hanging out with them and
working with them, and it's slowly and surely they got
(05:28):
to the point where they needed He had a chap
to uh take them some port film. He's a Was
that just a no brainer for you?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Then?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
He was. It was a dream comecert, dream come true,
and a passion.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
In a passion and you know, to go co.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Me had in the dark sense and living in my
own nightmare world, and they kind of wanted dark products,
Little Lord and it was perfect.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So when you did that, obviously like it sounds like
even all this time later, that that was a something
that you enjoyed, you were passionate about, you had a
desire for. So how does one go from that?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Then?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I guess is it just a natural evolution or progression
to go from that to maybe thinking about you know,
maybe I'd like to do some of this stuff in
a longer format, or I'd like to create like you know,
feature lens stories.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Well, I always knew I wanted to make movies, but
of course were fine. I mean I shot them like
little movies. They weren't done on goody and it didn't
have that with a guitar strumming and guitar. They were
all done with sets and actors and the storyline, which
(06:59):
basically I did, like chaplain as I wrote it by
filming it. But then later on I I, uh, it
says some guy offered be a job right script and
a spec script. Uh, I've just been able to get
(07:20):
a computer right. I'd taken a I dropped out a film,
I took an f dropped at a writing class in
film school, but it was just too hard to back
then there was Eddie's white out direct your mistakes and
being a little dyslexic and off, my whole page would
(07:42):
be nothing but white out. So this guy came along
and it just happened the first pieces around. You know
what that that those things can autocorrect and in it's
writing scripts?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Is that a difficult transition? Like you said, you you
kind of packed in the writing class in in film school,
you know, to go from that too? Then actually writing
a script? Was that a difficult process? Was it a
case of just trying by fire?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Or the hardest thing was get the computer door? Because
you know, I went, I bought it to this this
cat house and there's an old this old school and
all there was a little prompt on the screen and
you're out having I didn't know how to loaded by
forrosoft word or anything like that. That was the hardest part.
(08:36):
The actually writing wasn't wasn't that hard. I mean it
just took very slow, but writing is slow. But I
just I discovered I really liked it, Uh, I really
loved writing something.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I was actually interested to ask on the you know,
the concept of writing. And I normally I would leave
it an advice question for probably later on, but I'm
kind of fascinated. But you know, you mentioned kind of
just dropping the the writing class in film school and
maybe not being you know, not that not that you're
(09:19):
not interested in it, but struggling with like the difficulty
of how they wanted you to whatever put a story
together in destructure and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
And it's something that wasn't difficult. Difficulty was the actual
typing because there was no There wasn't before computers. It
was like a typewriter. Actual, Yeah, the actual typing was then.
That's why when when computers came along and I could
buy one, then I realized, oh my god, I can
(09:48):
write now. Yeah, I say, I'm like in computers to like, uh,
got a handicaped device, you know, for people like me
they're handicapped. It made it made writing possible.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
What advice would you give to someone who I feel
like there's probably a lot of people who are good
storytellers out there but maybe struggle with And I've even
fallen into this, you know, I've had sometimes before people
recommend me different books to read and things, and I
got like this big big tick like a screenwriting guide
(10:28):
thing like a workbook, and I just found it made
as more horrible. Yeah, like that.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Will you'll never want to write after you read some
garbage like that. So what I say. What I say
is write the movie you want to see. You see
you can see it here, you know, and just make
that movie here and then write it and make it
just the what you want to see and hopefully then
what you want is what an audience would want, but
(10:57):
making it make it fun and exciting for you, and
and and dare yourself, you know there yourself to come
up with stuff that's just surprising when you go, oh
my god, I shouldn't write that, and then write that?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Is it difficult when doing that because I don't know
if I've just been fed because you hear so many
different versions in so many different ways people tell you, you
know that you have to Okay, yeah, you can have
your own story, you can have your own whatever, but
it has to fit within like the parameters of You've
got to have the paragraphs laid out like this, you
have to have the scenes this way. There has to
be a beat on page twenty seven, you have. If
(11:33):
you don't do it this way, nobody's gonna listen.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Well, it has to be exciting. And again, right, you
know a exciting movie, Well that would excite you to
see it, because if it's been to excite you, it
will probably excite an audience. That's the thing. There's there's
a whole universal thing with with people and if it
(12:00):
and if it gets you dan deep and your gut
when you're when you're thinking it, hit somebody else. Now,
if you're kind of bored when you're doing it, and
if you're following along, uh recipe where okay, it's gotta
have three acts and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
You know what, it's gonna be like the recipe people,
it's gonna be like most movies made. Now.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, it's it's funny.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Because there I all, we all went to school and
they all learned how to do it. I fortunately, I'd
only last one class in your two classes. And writing,
I've never picked up, never read a book lot anything
like that. But I you know, I go to movies
and I see I see what works. It's all. It's
all you feel it, it doesn't it feels right, then
(12:48):
then it's gonna to be right, and then an audience
is gonna.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Is that what happened with uh, you know you were
Sonny Boy, which I actually any scene for the first
time recent enough, a wild, wild concept, extremely entertaining. Where
I found that I kind of just I don't know,
I feel like like what you said. Nowadays it's it's
(13:16):
you know, I try to go to the movies quite often,
and a lot of times I just feel like maybe
it's more to just say, oh, yeah, I did see
that new movie. I'm not actually pulled into a world
or a universe and a story.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
What the problem with movies now a lot of them
and there's still some good ones made, but that we're
rare and rare and rare is you've got a committee
and they've got a show that they're making money, and
so they decide to well this, this subject works a
little truck.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
One and as they're just they're just piecing together crap
that's already worked, and anybody with a vision they don't
want to, you know, on this, can't they can't okay
that because if it doesn't work, then they'll be in trouble.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
So if they say, well we'll do it like this,
nobody can blame them because they said, well that that
worked over there. You know, we just did what this
other guy did and it worked, and so don't blame us. Yeah,
I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, it's a weird one. And then it seems like terrible. Yeah,
it seems like as well. Then if an original idea
does work, all the studio execs want to jump on
it and go, see, we knew this would work, we
knew it'd be one hundred million dollar movie. We're so grace.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, well, I don't know. I don't see any really
great hundred million dollar movies these day.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
No, No, they.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Are fewer and fewer because I get all the screeners,
the directors, Gill scraters, and every year there's one or
two that somehow slipped through. And there are a couple
of directors, young directors that are doing good jobs, but
mostly it's just this, just this an assembly line. Yeah,
they're they're they're cranking out prefabricated housing or prefabricated movies.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
And how how did the story, how did the story
or the idea for a Sonny Boy come about?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Oh that came out. I got that idea. Well, it's
for a bunch of different plays, but the main idea.
I was a house painter. It was San Francisco. I
was up on the scaffolding about three stories up, and
this guy next to me was from the end. He
tells me the story about this small town where he
(15:45):
came from. And some guy was uh a big stolen car.
He had a whole bunch of stolen cars farm land,
and he had a whole bunch of anyway. So at
some point he he had gotten this kid. He kind
(16:09):
of tortured him and stuff like that, and everyone in town.
The kid grew up, and everyone in town was scared
to that this kid if he walked around with a
big overcoat on and he carried a sowd off shotgun underneath,
and the kid would kill you for nothing. And everyone
in town knew about. Wow, that is a story, and
(16:33):
I remember that one. You know, it was like this
the first hand story, and you know, and then then
the whole the whole transsexual thing came through because that's
I was living in a neighborhood where he had a
bunch of transseptions. So some that speeps people anyway, So
I just kind of mixed it all up.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And I did read somewhere. I don't know why. I
want you to correct me if this is wrong or
you were misquoted or somebody was misquoted at one point.
But the parlor character was supposed to originally wear black
rubber breasts with milking them the baby.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Oh that's in there. If you see the Blu Ray,
it's in there. They went back to the original one.
Oh yeah, David Carroll, Okay, so there's there's.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Different cuts of this. Then I assume, huh is there
different cuts of the movie.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Oh yeah, there was a there was a well the
movie came out, he got trashed and and uh the
public was outraged. The poor director wrote me a letter
a couple of years later saying his life in the
group LA. But uh, yeah, no, there's there there were
(17:53):
they cut it down. But yeah, the the Blu Ray
I have definitely has the black fake rests milk and
all that, because I see.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Touching scene, because I did see online people were talking
unredded about there was multiple things kind of chopped up
and taken out, and there was different edits, and there
was different cuts of the movie and I couldn't find.
I couldn't actually seem to well, at least online. I
actually do have the the The Blu Ray ordered, but
(18:29):
from what I could see online, I couldn't find like
a an untouched version or whatever you want to call it.
I don't know if it's like a director's call or
a unrated cut or whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Well, I can tell you that the whole movie kind
of sucks because, ah, they it's Italian producer. I bought it,
and he wouldn't let me directed. He was he was
a real schlockmaster. So they came up with it. And
(19:01):
you see, it was supposed to be a Frankenstein remake. Mmm,
funny Boy was supposed to be this horrible looking creature.
They thought, now we'll make it nice. We'll make it
look like a kind of a nice look at surfer boy.
So you take Frankenstein and you make him into a
surfer boy, you got big problems right there. That's that's
(19:24):
the first thing with they with these the uh, the
fake tits got in.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I don't know how that survived, but you know, it's
it's funny how they make choices like that. Is it
difficult when you write a project like that, and you
want to direct and maybe the powers that be and
then we get all these other people involved and somehow,
you know, maybe you get to a c Is that
difficult to maybe then afterwards look at the final product
(19:49):
and go no, no, no, no no, that's not what
I wanted.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Oh yeah, Well, when they they didn't want me, they
wouldn't let me come to the filming it. I mean
completely yeah, I think Empire Pictures forget who it was. Anyway,
I still had a friend in the in the production
company or the really uh yeah, the production company. When
it was all finished, they invited me into a screen
(20:15):
and it took some friends and I sat in the
front row with one of the executives next to me,
and after about four minutes in, I just kept saying,
I'm gonna kill that fucking director. I'm gonna kill it.
And I didn't know that the producer had made him
rewrite it, and then, you know, I belittled his effort,
(20:38):
and then he sent me this really saw it sorry letter.
I still have it. It's very funny that he he
didn't have a choice and he was forced to rewrite it,
and the movie ruined his life and what it came
out of and hated it, but she had to leave
l A.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Does that happen often on projects where producers or executives
or I don't know. Sometimes I've heard them referred to
as want to be creatives. I get really involved and
like try to change like.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
These Oh yeah they can. They give ruin everything, and
and and and it's very rare. A director has Final
Sun and the best movies they do because you get
people that aren't real shark that they they look at
it they I could do. And usually the point where
(21:36):
they can get involved in is editing is all the
hard works not so yeah Korean range and stuff. But
they do it with scripts too. I mean, I've I
had a script work. I went into a script meeting
(21:58):
and it was like about ten people around a table
and I came in as the writer. And these were
all executives and they're all young, and they all college
degree he's all gotten out college prety recently, and they
didn't know what to say. And finally one spoke up.
She said, mister Whiffler, I for one can never okay
(22:24):
a strip coming out of our company. There's somebody picking scabs.
And they all agreed and they all went around and
said what they could. I couldn't have the hard and
it was somebody picking scabs, and you know it's like, oh,
you know that, but they all had, they all have
(22:46):
something they needed to be taken out because it bothered them.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
You know, I've heard that several times off air, where
people have told me hard stories about stuff like that,
or they call me a script and everything seen is
to be fine, and then all of a sudden, like
this guy behind this desk and that guy that doesn't
have anything to do comes along and goes, yeah, you
know what I think if we do this dialogue and
actually I was thinking if we put a character in
(23:12):
that doesn't make any sense and has no place, that'd
be like a cool idea because it's doing well over
in this a market. And you know, if we put
a random thing in here that says this.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
In Sunny Boy, the Italian producer was fucking this this lady,
and he put her in his beloved interest, Frankenstein's love
interest because it's arable and there's no reason for her
to the internet. She's riding around a little o bed
new It's like, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, so odd to me though, way like people who
aren't creative or don't want to be creative, and then
all of a sudden, like you said, once the hard
work is done, now I want to be creative.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Well, yeah, what they want to be creative and it
looks so much fun, you know, mm hmm. They can't
do it when you're shooting Earth they try. I mean,
I've had it's happened to me a few times, which
I just and because I'm directing him, I know what
I want. It's all planned out. I know what I want.
(24:19):
I've been a couple of times drum, I'm thinking about something,
and then one of the crew members has a suggestion,
and then somebody else's suggestion, and two or three people
start suggesting how to play the scene or out to
get shot and all that. Okay, well let's let's vote
on it. And they go, oh, they're all happy, And
(24:39):
I said, fuck you. I'd say, what's going to happen?
You have nothing to say? And then they'll one usual
whimpius person, you're just like Hitler. Well that's the greatest,
the greatest compliment anybody could ever give it. Director, don't
(25:01):
you know that.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, it's such a weird thing, but it's I don't
know for you, like how you feel about the you know,
looking back on that movie in particular now, but it
seems to have developed them like a pretty decent cult following.
Do you think that there's a reason that, like it's
been kept alive by fans for all these years.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Oh? Yeah, it crosses a lot of barriers. I mean
most of them have been We're taken out, but it's
still I mean, David Carradine nursing a baby. I mean,
it's just it's so out there and it was so
ahead of its time. They're only forty years ahead of it. Yeah,
(25:48):
and uh yeah, there's just stuff in Mary. It's just
it's it's wong raw. You should have that sort of
stuff in movies.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You probably wouldn't even get a You probably wouldn't even
get a conversation nowadays with something like that.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Would you you had a conversation?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, Like if you if you wrote a similar movie
right now, do you think that you would have an
impossible time trying to get it made with with some
of that controversial stuff and like it's very surreal and
wild and out there in the performances or just freakish
at times.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, Uh yeah, I don't know. You would definitely have
a hard time, and you probably have protesters.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
It's funny because for one part, I feel like there's
a lot of people out there who want more of
that stuff, you know, who want stuff that's just batchit crazy,
that's just you know, off the wall, there's no holds barred.
But then you always have that other side there, like, no,
you can't do that, you can't say that, you can't
put that in the movie.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Well, the problem is you lose those people that say
you can't have that, They just they just wet the
taste for the people that want it more. And then
there's always a reaction to that kind of stuff, and
that kind of censorship really doesn't you know, they can
(27:22):
try as hard as they can, but yeah, it's like
my daughter, she's she's pretty young, she's early twenties, and uh,
you know, you're not supposed to say the word retard
or retarded, and has all her friends say now because
they're not supposed to say it.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, yeah, that that is actually you're right about that.
That's definitely a thing. Do you have any what I
would consider comfort movies, whether it be horror movies or
other ways and in the sense yeah, yeah, in the
sense of like maybe movies that you would revisit more
often than.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
What my favorite movie is. And it is a comfort movie.
It's called A Place in the Sun. Okay, old one, Yeah,
Place in the Sun Montgomery Cliff and uh Lubeth Taylor
and Shelley Water in Ringdenburgh and it's just I just
love it because it's a morality tape and it's it's
(28:32):
it's hardcore morality.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
It's the fan And what what do you think it
is about it that I guess draws you back.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
A couple of things. Number One, George Stevens directs it, right,
It's probably his greatest movie he directed. He was a
cameraman on a lot of the Laurel and hardy mm hmm.
And the way it's for photograft is just amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
He uh.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
In some of the scenes he would do, you know,
twenty or thirty different angles and they've got He's got
two close ups in that film that are in the
most magnificent close ups ever in any movie ever. I
mean there, this is when you judge movies or close ups.
Apple Ball is a bit of tailor that are just amazing.
And then yeah, the good Tailor at the Montgomery Cliff
(29:26):
with a little bit of tailor. Just it's and and
chilly winner. But it's and it's just morality. It's doesn't
let down, it's it's it's really interesting me.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I'm gonna say something out it won't sound as it
won't sound as I guess clever and and sinifi like
when I when I bring up something like doctor Giggles
and put that in the same format as like something
that I in. There's many others considered like a comfort movie,
like I don't know, a go to movie if it's
(30:00):
like the nostalgia of the time or something like that.
That brings me back to that, But a lot of
people don't know the actual I guess story behind that
that that is vastly different from what you had actually
written and intended that to be, right.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Doctor Giggles. Yeah, well there is a version I wanted.
Took the script and I read did I remade it?
I know?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And I was going to get that because I actually
got a chance to see that as well.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, that's a good one. My friend Nick Sercy stars
in it. A smashing job.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
What was the question, Yeah, just on the like for
for a lot of people out there who who whether
you like that movie Doctor Giggles or not, won't know
that you know that wasn't your original intention.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Oh, they they paid me. I bought a house with
the money they paid me, and they just kept the
character names pretty well. I'll tell you the story of
the original Doctor Giggles and where that one came from.
It's two different stories. I'm a big I listened to
(31:15):
the radio all the time for news stories. I love
this oddball news people people messing up. So there were
these are two stories I heard. Actually one one was
from TV documentary and the setup was this guy an
(31:39):
ambulance driver or work as an EMT, and he worked
with a bunch of people and he'd always offer to
buy donuts for everybody. And they all go out there
buying donuts, and they go out there on the day's work.
People started complaining because they were in diarrhea all the time,
(32:04):
and they didn't know that this guy didn't dosed in
their donuts. But he went ahead and he went from
an EMT, went to medical school right and he he
was he was going farther and give him diarrhea. He
was killing patients, and so they went to after they
(32:28):
put him in jail, they went to his house with
the camera and he opened up coverards in the kitchen
and filled the kitchen. But in the coveroards it was
nothing but different kinds of poisons, right, And they asked
him in the jail cell, they said, we want to
your house and there are all these all these poisons
in the kitchen. And he said, well, every doctor has
(32:52):
to know about poisons. So that that was that guy,
and I took him. And then there was another one
I heard on the news about. Uh, this guy. He
had a problem with his uh, male body parts. He
were they were bothering him or they were taking too
(33:16):
much of his attention, and so he uh, well he
eventually what he did is he took his dining room
table and put a sheet over it and then put
a light up there in a mirror. And uh, he
(33:38):
had done a bunch of research. He figured out was
a land and in his in his abdomen, it was
a problem. The real cause of the problem wasn't as genital,
but the real cause was his land. So he opened
himself up dug in there to get that land. And
(33:59):
it was so painful you couldn't continue, and he had
to call in an ambulance and they brought her to
the hospital, and the people of the hospital said he
had done a pretty good professional job opened himself up.
And the kicker was they weren't surprised to see him
because he'd been in three months earlier when he after
(34:21):
he cut off his dick. So anyway, I took those
two people, put them together into one delightful package, and
then then put him as a neighbor next door to
a nice young yuppie couple that kind of scary and
they had they had their own problems with fear.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So when you when you came up with that original
concept for what a lot of people taught ended up
being doctor Giggles, which we'll get to in a second,
because you actually managed to make the movie that you
more intended to make. But so they just they just
pay you like a boatload of money and then just
completely changed the whole idea. What's the point for them
(35:08):
of doing that, like of taking your story and then
just completely just not doing it.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Because well that was that was the one where the
first I think who was was I'm fucking mentioned names,
But the first one was when he told me that
somebody told me they came out scab picking, they ended
up passing, and I want to somebody out through Warner Brothers.
(35:39):
Famous producer there. I used to buy Frank Wi right
houses and he was going to do it and they
they got they got a lead producer and he told
me my agent had me rewriting scripts. And I told me,
(36:00):
he said, you know, I want something that's just really
cheesy and will play to a grindhouse. I don't want this,
and I don't want this and I don't want this,
and oh and dead Ringers had just come out. I said,
I want these kind of tools like in Dead Ringers.
Oh so, anyway, I did two rewrites to them, and
they hated the rewrites, and so they got another guy
(36:23):
and they just they just any kodo and and uh yeah,
they just changed it completely. And then he stole stuff
from Hitchcock to thirty nine, the mirror scene from thirty
nine steps or anyway, And so I one side, they
(36:47):
were there's another film. They wouldn't let me watch the
production on right to keep me a la oh no
what this? So I went and they didn't even invite
me to a screening. I got a V eight just
anonymously in the bail a year later. That's that's really nice,
But so I want to see it. Matt ned local
(37:10):
Blundelle Theater and he sat there and the audience, the
few people that were in there were just bored to tears.
You just feel it, because there was just they just
recycled all this old horror stuff and they tried to
recycle it to make it a little nicer, and it
(37:32):
was just it was like this, there's nothing there.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
How does that feel for you at that point, Like,
obviously haven't gone through what you did with the likes
of Sonny Boy. Did you have a little bit ticker
skin when it came to you know, I wish I
could tell people they just tore my whole idea part.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Uh, Well, I dealt with it. I didn't you know.
Oh I didn't hurt anybody. I didn't drive around shooting people. No,
it's part of the Yes, it comes with the territory.
(38:15):
It's it's a it can be a real bit of business.
And I wasn't in the position where I could that. Fine.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Is that the worst part for a writer, especially when
it comes to you know, this kind of medium of
storytelling that your.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Well, but I wasn't really a writer. I was a
director who wrote.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I know how.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
I knew how to do the second part even better
than the writing. Mm hmm, because a lot of writers
don't know how to do that. Man, like because casting
and working with actors and production design and all that
stuff that most writers don't little about that and you
don't want to near it, oh the new.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
All do you think not to say that it's like
a conspiracy or anything like that, but do you think
in certain productions, if maybe the studio or executives have
an ulterior motive that they don't want somebody like you,
then in the sense of like, Okay, this guy knows
how to direct, he knows how to deal with the cast,
(39:19):
he knows how to structure a story. He's just going
to keep trying to push back against our well oh.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, well, and then this is this is a more
modern for big studios. Yeah, they don't want look for
new directors, people that they can tell what to do. Yeah,
they don't want they don't want anyone with firm vision
(39:48):
because you know they they have got their ideas. So
then yeah, so so there, it's most of it. That's
why most of it is his schlock, you know, and
it's kind of boring. And then everyone's in a while, Well,
every year there's a few good ones that sneak through,
and there's a few directors that are able to penetrate that,
(40:09):
but never would the giant budget.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, it's unfortunate. Like I I know some other like
relatively new directors who got the opportunity to get involved
with some of the bigger hor eypies and then just
got pushed into a corner, told the movie they were making.
The movie comes out, movie flops, everyone blames him. And
(40:34):
then it's like I'm stuck between obviously the audience thinking
I'm absolutely garbage, and then the fact that the executives
are like, you'll do what you're told or you'll never
make another fucking movie.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
That is that's that's so true. This this is this
is this is the the big trap for directors. Say
you're you're young director, and you made a couple just
brilliant movies. Everyone all their eyes going, that guy's hot,
let's get him. Then they'll come to you and they'll
(41:05):
say we'll give you a pile of money to direct
or movie. And you go, well no, and they'll tell
you what to do, and then their movie that they've
had isn't very good and you may never get to
make another good one.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Mm that. Yeah, I do see that happening a lot,
and it's unfortunate because I think from a younger me,
I never considered that perspective. It always just you know,
the media or whoever would just tell you, or some critic,
some guy who never made a movie in his life
would be the one to tell you, well, obviously this
director is garbage. He has no vision, he hasn't got
(41:45):
a clue, and you just kind of hear that and go, oh, yeah,
of course he's just a terrible filmmaker, and that's that's
the end of it.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
You always look for their first few movies, I'll tell
you every yeah, and there's so many that their first
few movies are just absolutely brilliant, and then you never
see hear him again, or then then it's coming out
with the studio and it's like what that's just everything else?
You comes down what happened that guy?
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Would that have been difficult for you with the time
If let's say the doctor giggles thing and they sit
down and go, okay, you know, we want you to
direct this, but this is the movie. It's not your
movie anymore. It's this thing that we've come up with.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Oh I I probably couldn't have done it. I probably
would have because I'm such a whore, but of course, yeah,
people are coruptible. But yeah, I probably wouldn't have known
what to do. I wouldn't have had any passion.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Yeah, I think that that ultimately as well as shines true.
I think you've alluded to it a few times that
people can see through that for the most part, that
like if there's passion behind something, or if people just
don't give a shit and they're just making it just
to try and make money.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Yeah, because it is a great art form. It's just
it's really hard to.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
What was that process you mentioned earlier and some people
may not notice, And this was something I really wanted
to to highlight because I think a lot of people
probably won't notice. But the process that you had to
go through to waste well over a decade to finally
(43:38):
make the movie that I think I've heard you say
best resembles your original vision for like the Doctor or
Mister Giggles or whatever you want to call it. A
character with your movie. I think it's had. I don't
know if it's a regional thing with the names. There's
Deadly Turn and then I've seen it called Neighborhood Watch.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah, we start out as Neighborhood Watch. Then we couldn't
find a distributor, and we got a distributor because the
others distributors wanted to cut all up. We found a
distributor who would distribute it, but they just said they
had to do the name change because they wanted the
first letter title to be higher up in the alphabet.
(44:24):
He warped luck Cliff for people to see it. We
the God. So it was just like this genericle.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
What was that process like to have to wait all
that time and then finally get to make the movie
that you felt like, you know, is as close to
maybe that original idea.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Well, I was just doing other things, yeah, of course,
but that was always busy. I mean, it wasn't like, yeah,
they put me on some drugs and I was.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
I just and in the sense of like, obviously this
idea was enough. It was simmering in the background enough
for you to to want to revisit a decade later.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Well, we're simmer Well, the script both both those scripts
are just killers to read. The doctor giggles one. I mean,
I'd make people would get sick with them just read it.
I had one I had sending out to a lot
(45:28):
of studio people and one guy said I had to
open up all the windows in my house. I couldn't breathe. Sorry,
And then the movies new, the new movie. It's really
funny when I what festival stuff we would. The first
time I showed it was in New York at the
(45:52):
that theater down and oh, I don't know, I think
it's where's a Deniros theater anyway, So it was all
I went dan to speak. You know, if the movie
was over, I could get down the aisle because somebody
passed out. And it turned out every time i'd show
this sucker, somebody would pass ever have a seizure, you
(46:15):
know what. Right.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
So I've seen a lot of a lot of movies.
I've seen a lot of fucked up and weird shit.
I've read a lot of weird shit. I've looked at
a lot of real life uncomfortable with horrible things. And
number one, actually, which I think is a travesty. I
actually found it quite difficult to find this movie, which
(46:40):
I think is a little bit of a travesty. But
when I did watch it, I found myself genuinely and
this is no word of a lie in people who
know me or have listened to the show or things
like that, for you know, a bit of time will
know I normally don't have an issue with anything, but
I there was a few times during this that I
he struggled to like not look away and be like,
(47:04):
this is really just how it's shot, how it's laced
the whole thing. I was like, this is making me really,
really uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
It's a story that's being told and his house being told,
and it's it's designed to creep up on you and
it gets in here. It was so funny because I
was watch people because I know exactly what and what's
gonna do and uh, and it's uh. You see him
flopping around. It's a bunny and one guy who's a
(47:38):
bit borderline retarded, and he came out to the lobby
pass some time he came out. At that point, you,
I don't know, I don't think I can watch anymore.
So you go back in. It's gonna be it's gonna
be nicer.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
I want to like that was where where did you
get that? I don't know that that kind of mind
for stuff like that that like freakish, uh.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
You know what you'd have to ask when Loma she's dead.
I don't know. I was always a peculiar child, they
told me so. I definitely like the odd things. And
I didn't always have a haunted house going in the
cross space of our whole my shrunken heads down there.
(48:28):
And you know, do you.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Seek out that kind of uh, that kind of content,
like do you watch movies that.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Are well, I generally watch, well, most of the most
horror movies really bore me. The best horror movie I've
seen recently, it wasn't too recent. Well, I kind of
liked bo Was Afraid. Yeah, it's truly a horror movie.
But I also like The Witch mm hmm. But most
horror instance, you know where it's coming from and it's
(49:00):
a bunch of blood. Slaughter is not really an interest.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Yeah, this movie is.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
Is one.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
I think. Again, I don't know what the reception has been,
like you know, in the States and things like that,
but I know upon researching over here, I think it's
only starting to like rEFInd its audience again, which I
find happens a lot with horror movies or anything horror adjacent.
Even a lot of times they kind of come out,
(49:29):
people see them, and then over time the community gets
on it and like it starts to build and build
and building. They gain these huge followings and they get
re releases on Blu rays, and you'll probably be asked
to do a director's commentary, and there'll be a box
set and this and that. Is that something that you
would entertain because I personally think that this movie, like
(49:51):
I said, it takes a lot for me to kind
of cringe at the screen, but I genuinely, like, I
only watched it yesterday and I was like, wow, this
is making me extremely uncomfortable. And there's only a handful
of characters, but it's so.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
And there's no blood. Yeah blood. You see. What what
the movie does is that you're afraid of what you
may see. It's nothing up there and yeah, in a
cross as there is a bunch of different things you're
not supposed to see on TV. And it's a movie.
(50:32):
Say you're talking about comfort movies, And I just gotta
say my favorite, one of my favorite signs of Place
in the Sun Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I'm a big fan
of Texas Chainsaws.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
He was very little blood in that, yeah, being a
big fan them of the original Texas chain So I know.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
The rest of all the remakes.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
I was literally going to ask have you had a
chance to see any of those? And I sippolos, what's
your opinion on I feel like that happens a lot
now with studios. They get their hands on an ip
and it's like, let's just fucking rinse this thing till
there's nothing left.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, Number two was kind of I
like the parts yeah instead, but other than that, it
was like there was nothing there. You know, the ones
first one is brilliant. What you know, I even thought.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
That in your opinions as a filmmaker, do you think
that things like that, like franchises, let's say, shouldn't exist
then in that sense, because I feel like the more
we get, for the most part in a in a franchise,
the more the bigger the number added on to like
you know, Part two, Part three, Part four, Part five,
(51:45):
they progressively get worse and worse.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
People will go see them. I don't know, you can't
outlaw them, but people will go see them and then
they do them, because that's again they they're fairly sure
they'll make money and they can't. Executives can't be fired
for okay a franchise, does it made money before? Yeah,
(52:13):
that's their safe way out. But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Is that something that would have ever interested you or
would interest you? You know if somebody, if you had
a conversation, someone said, look, we have our hands on X,
Y and z IP. Is there any chance maybe we
could see what you think?
Speaker 3 (52:34):
If I was offered to do a remake of something,
I would it'd be completely different m because because I
would sit down and examine it, I'd let it touch me,
and then I'd write that movie that's in my head
that I want to see because that's all the stuff
I want to see.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Speaking of that as something else that I think is
kind of lost on people from an audience perspective. When
you're a filmmaker, uh, you know, when you get into
a room you mentioned getting into a room with executives
and stuff. The skill of having to try and pitch
or sell your idea. Is that something that can only
be done by experiences.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
I don't know. I never really did that I was
not very success of a watch. I didn't not really
was supposed to do that at first. I can just
want to right way in a Rota script made a movie,
so I was so naive. But the whole you know,
the whole idea of pitching too, I don't know. It's
just I don't like committees. I do you not like committee? Were? Yeah,
(53:45):
I guess you'd say. I do not play well with others,
especially directs like Hitler.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
I feel like, especially in those situations though, it's it's
a very strange. Like I said, you know, I got
close with some Irish filmmakers who have started to make
more American style of movies and things like that with
some of the bigger companies, and you know, they mension
the things like the water bottle tour, where someone hears
(54:16):
you had one good idea. You're invited to all these
meetings and studios and you get the free water and
it's like everybody tells you all this shit, and then
you realize when you get home that nobody's calling back,
nobody's emailing back, nobody cares, nobody's interested.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
Well, I was in meeting with one woman in a
studio and It's really funny because I didn't really know
I supposed to have some of the picture, and I
didn't know what she's eat with me. I really did
not agents and all that. So when in her she did,
she kind of she got kind of nervous because she
didn't know what they're talking about. So she finally says, well, Graham,
(54:56):
what kind of movies do you like? And I looked
at her with dead eyes. I like movies where people
get hurt. And I can just see her reaching under
the desk to press the little button to get you already.
(55:17):
I do like movies where people get hurt. Those are
the only ones I like. And that happens to be comedy.
That's tragedy, you know, that's that's the whole that's the
whole basis of drama.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
Would you have liked to have made more projects? Is
it something that you'd still be talking to right now?
Speaker 3 (55:36):
Oh? Yeah, but I did. I did. I've got a
nice body of work and I did, And it's an
interesting ty stuff I did. Uh convinced a good part
of the nation here that the world was gonna end.
That was fun and uh, you.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Know, is it something that's still because you feel like
a passionate person and somebody who's genuinely interested in what
they're talking about, versus sometimes I feel like people just
talk at you or just say whatever they think people
want to hear. Do you still have that desire like
as regards to like, I don't know where right now
(56:21):
you're at with like your writing or directing or things like.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
That, or I don't know if I'll you another movie.
I don't know. It's just it's just I'm old. It's
like a really hard thing to do, but every day
I have to be constantly at and it's one of
the only things that really gives me joy. And I've
(56:46):
been doing it all my life, since I was a
little tiny kid. And I don't know. I can't explain it.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
And when you say being creative, is that is that
sitting down and coming up with a story or fleshing
out of concept?
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Uh? Any number of ways? Any number of ways, any
number one.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Would you have? I was just gonna ask, would you
have a desire to I don't know, release, because I'm
sure you probably have many works, many stories, many ideas
that you know, never saw the light of they, have
you ever?
Speaker 3 (57:25):
I don know, Actually, I don't have a lot of
a lot of scripts. Everything I've written has gotten made,
like if files of unmated.
Speaker 2 (57:36):
Well, even I don't even mean yeah, you know, I don't.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
I'm not writing them to putt in a drawer, so
uh yeah, well.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
I mean even I I don't know like if maybe
you have ideas or just concepts for stories or something
like that. I just I seen a little bit of
a turn during the pandemic where some filmmakers were like,
you know what, I'm gonna like make a little book.
I'm gonna put some of my short stories in it,
or stuff that just seems to just keep getting pushed
(58:05):
back at me, like, Oh, it's too too over the top,
it's too crazy, it's too wild. You can't do that.
Is that something you would ever entertain?
Speaker 3 (58:19):
Yeah, I'll entertain anything, but I gotta I gotta see
that there is a what a ray of light to
get it getting that there?
Speaker 2 (58:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (58:28):
Yeah, because that you know, it's I'd do what I
like to build things that get them done.
Speaker 2 (58:37):
Yeah. No, that makes sense. And what piece of advice
would you give to either an inspiring writer or a filmmaker.
I guess now is it? Is it literally just a
case of having to try and do and create and
make because I feel like a lot of people I
mentioned that probably even myself before, about you know, screenwriting, handbooks,
(59:00):
workbooks and all this shit, and we we listened to
two hundred podcasts about how to do it, but we
never actually try and shoot anything with a camera. We
never actually put pen to paper, or we never type
anything on the computer.
Speaker 3 (59:15):
Well, I can't. I don't know, I've I've never read
any of those books, and I you know, I wouldn't
recommend it. I would recommend doing I mean, that's that's
the only the only way you get in is to
do it. And you know, if you're going for visuals,
(59:38):
I mean I started on photography and I still do
photography because it's the image, you know, and even though
on a moving image, it's still the image, and it's
that's the way to connect with people. And you can
tell whether you're connecting with with just an image. And
as far as writing, right, don't don't read any books,
(01:00:01):
and don't listen to anybody, and don't definitely don't go
to school experts tell you is it? You know, anybody's
teaching writing the teaching it because they can't do it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
You know, it's funny that so many people have told
me that, don't listen to anybody when you want to
write or you want to do something just right, don't
listen to anybody's do this yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Listen to yourself. That's you know where I said, uh,
write for yourself and if it's boring to you, then
change it, make it, just make it them. You know again,
I always revert back to about three years old. About
three years old, that's when I kind of reached my maturity.
(01:00:50):
You well, you do something creative and you go get
trouble for them, that's you.
Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So, you know, looking forward
in to the future, is there anything I don't know
that you have left on your your book at list
or in your mind that you're like, you know, I'd
love to I'd love to get that project on or
whether it be a film and TV.
Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Things, but I don't what we need to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Yeah, of course, of course, is there anywhere where people
can maybe keep up to date or I don't know,
in case something does come about or will we just
hear about it on you? And because I've seen you
pop up from time to time, you know what bloody
discussed and in different places like that Red Central and
(01:01:43):
things like that. So is that probably where people could
expect to see if there's something somewhere like that. Yeah, yeah,
final question and would be and I don't want to
say I normally ask why horror, but I feel like
it's it's so much more vast than that. Forew But
what eat way filmmaking way that medium and what does
it mean to you?
Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
See? Well, I started watching TV as a little kid,
and then when my first color movie I've ever seen
colored before. I love movies. But the thing is movies
and and all that the ultimate four of those are dreams.
(01:02:31):
That's that's It's all dreams. And if you can make
a movie, is a grossing is a dream? I mean,
I love dream.
Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
It's just it's.
Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
Subconscious in movies. It's so important, it's really And that's
one of the reasons that that uh Ded Leander Neighborhood
Watch is so troubling, is it is working on like
a dream type of thing. There's imagery there that it's
(01:03:03):
just it's all it's all about dreams, and the best
movies you feel like you're watching the dream or your
heaven a dream.
Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that, and I will say, uh,
as we're closing this chat out that that at the
end or Neighborhood Watch definitely felt like that for me.
I was like, it's kind of surreal, sort of like
fever dream. I was like, I don't know, like I
feel like when I was thinking about it a couple
of days later, I was like, I was like, is
(01:03:39):
that some weird repressed memory or was that just a
movie I watched? I don't know if like some of
the imagery, I was like, wait, did I dream that
or did I see that?
Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Well, A lot of my a lot of my imagery
in the in the stuff I write, and yeah, it's
it's all. It's all repressed memories. A lot of it
is or stuff I've just seen.
Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
I love that, Graham. It's been a pleasure to chat.
It's been an honor. I would love to hopefully if there's,
if there's any announcements in the future, we'll be able
to link up again and and chat.
Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
Thank you so much for me.
Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
It's a pleasure. I wish you all the best.
Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
And you obviously love film.
Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Oh I do. I surely do. And like I said,
I I appreciated that film when I It's funny because
I you know, I had seen Doctor Giggles so young,
and I always had this weird like memory about the
cover the artwork with the eyes, and I was like
and over the years and and and then I found
out that that wasn't the original kind of idea and concept,
(01:04:44):
and then I became enamored with like, wait, what's this
other movie? And then to see it and it's like, ah,
now I get now, I get it kind of I
can see now why Yeah, But nobody.
Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
In the in the audience pa that Berg went into
a seizure watching Doctor No. It's a safe movie. You
can take your family. No one's gonna have a bad reaction.
Look those psychotic breakdown I saw somebody of a psychotic breakdown.
Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Watch you know what, It wouldn't actually surprise me. So
for everybody listening, if you can do one thing for me,
If you can find a copy of Neighborhood Watch or
Deadly End, pick it up, watch it, and then message
me on social media or in the comments below wherever
you're listening to this, and let me know what you
(01:05:35):
think of it, because I'd be fascinated, Like I said,
I watch a lot of movies from all genres, but
a lot of horror, a lot of weird horror, a
lot of I don't know, uncomfortable, unsettling content around horror,
and this one genuinely made me cringe at several parts,
even with just a dialogue. It was not even really happening,
(01:05:56):
and I was like, I don't know why he makes
me so uncomfortable, but I can the scene where he
comes to the door with the he says it's grapes
or preserves or whatever, and that's where we kind of
see the switch in the character and like the dude
tells him to get the fuck out. And I can't
remember the specifics of the dialogue there, but it was
(01:06:18):
fantastic where he says something about like oh, when you're
doing something with that sparm something whatever, and I was like, whoa,
this is like it's like a switch just turned in
his head. That was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Well, I have nothing to do with that. I don't
think like that. My brain doesn't work like that. That's
something I just made up personally.
Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
We'll leave it there before I get you in trouble
and Graham, it's been fantastic. I hope we can stay
in touch and I would love to do this again.
Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Class Horrorcast. Stop
the CHC podcast at classharrorcast dot com at first Class Horror,
on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, or on Twitter at Class
Underscore Horror. The CHC podcast is hosted and produced by
Aaron Doyle and is an fcch production
You can run, but you can't die from the class hardcast.
Hunting you from the Emerald Isle, your host Aaron Doyle
takes you on a journey to the depths of horror
with exclusive interviews, horror news, reviews and more. Tickets Please
you were about to Hunterer the Theater of the mad
(00:22):
Enjoy the show.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to the show. It's a pleasure and an honor
to have you on. How are you doing today, sir?
Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm doing good California.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I know, right, I can kind of I could kind
of tell I'm here in the southeast of Ireland, in
a place that they call the Sunny Southeast, and we
had two weeks of sun and then it's rained for
the last ten days strace.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
So yeah, well it's against the latter rain a lot.
That's it.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I don't know whether some people tell me that all
you would get bored of it if you lived in
La or near La or the surrounding areas, because it's
always sunny, and I'm like, m.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Would I get border of that? Though? Well, yeah, you would, don't.
Come fuck it's it is pretty nice and it's in
the ocean's are in the mountains are here.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
I do like the sound of that. To be honest,
if we can go back to the start for a minute,
can you do you remember the first time you were
ever scared by a piece of media, whether it be
a film, TV, show, book, whatever, it might be comic anything.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
The first thing that really scared me were my dreams. Interesting,
but the first probably the first movie and I saw
it on TV. It was clips from the original Acculent
when that was so creepy mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
When you say your dreams, was there any because I've
had I think I've only had that answer once before.
And somebody said that they had a reoccurring dream where
like there was several things that would constantly kind of
pop up. Was that the way for you or was
it just happening?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah? Yeah, I'd have this dream that, uh, my parents
would come in my room and they were smiling and
all that, but parents were coming in there to take
me and then they were gonna beat me, cook me
and eating. I don't know what triggered it, but I
(02:32):
know it will always happened on a Tuesday, And the
dreams would go that all of a sudden lose their color.
They'd be brown and beige, and I knew in my dream.
I was having this dream because it was Tuesday, and
I'd eat round beef both figure and then there there
(02:52):
would be the Smiley parents who were actually it's kind
of like Hansel and Gretelly. Yeah, you mean.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
So from that point then, would you have been a
kid or a teen who was into anything scary or like?
Did you have a particular interest in film or a
particular genre.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
As a kid. Not really, but I did like scary things.
I mean, wait, what dear grandmother, she knew me pretty
wells for Christmas was a little kid. She gave me
a shrunken head nice gonna really like? Yeah, I always
(03:38):
you know, they go, oh, that's rare attracted to the
very dark things.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Did that carry her?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Obviously it probably did to a degree. And you got
you got your starts a little bit well, I don't
want to say a little bit differently, but you got
your start directing music videos and stuff like that. Right,
How did that? Like, how does one come to that?
Was it a case of the directing and stuff interested
(04:11):
you or was it the music that kind of drew
you to that that profession.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
I've gone to film school, So I was a little kid,
I kind of wanted to be in. I didn't think
too much. I didn't know what I wanted. I took
photography and loved that, went to film school and then
couldn't get a job anywhere. So as a house painter,
and an old guy from high school came to stay
(04:39):
at my house. As living in San Cisco, he needed
a place to stay in a bad way, and so
he came over and then he invited me over to
this this warehouse. Were we friends. Now, what I did
know at the time is the reason he was at
my house was he was a cocaine dealer and he
(05:04):
owed all these people money, ripping people up. But he
had two pounds of coke. Started this warehouse where these
artists live, and so he'd keep going over to that
warehouse to get cold. And so he introduced me to
me of those that turned out to be the band,
the Resident. So I started hanging out with them and
working with them, and it's slowly and surely they got
(05:28):
to the point where they needed He had a chap
to uh take them some port film. He's a Was
that just a no brainer for you?
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Then?
Speaker 3 (05:42):
He was. It was a dream comecert, dream come true,
and a passion.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
In a passion and you know, to go co.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
Me had in the dark sense and living in my
own nightmare world, and they kind of wanted dark products,
Little Lord and it was perfect.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So when you did that, obviously like it sounds like
even all this time later, that that was a something
that you enjoyed, you were passionate about, you had a
desire for. So how does one go from that?
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Then?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
I guess is it just a natural evolution or progression
to go from that to maybe thinking about you know,
maybe I'd like to do some of this stuff in
a longer format, or I'd like to create like you know,
feature lens stories.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Well, I always knew I wanted to make movies, but
of course were fine. I mean I shot them like
little movies. They weren't done on goody and it didn't
have that with a guitar strumming and guitar. They were
all done with sets and actors and the storyline, which
(06:59):
basically I did, like chaplain as I wrote it by
filming it. But then later on I I, uh, it
says some guy offered be a job right script and
a spec script. Uh, I've just been able to get
(07:20):
a computer right. I'd taken a I dropped out a film,
I took an f dropped at a writing class in
film school, but it was just too hard to back
then there was Eddie's white out direct your mistakes and
being a little dyslexic and off, my whole page would
(07:42):
be nothing but white out. So this guy came along
and it just happened the first pieces around. You know
what that that those things can autocorrect and in it's
writing scripts?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Is that a difficult transition? Like you said, you you
kind of packed in the writing class in in film school,
you know, to go from that too? Then actually writing
a script? Was that a difficult process? Was it a
case of just trying by fire?
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Or the hardest thing was get the computer door? Because
you know, I went, I bought it to this this
cat house and there's an old this old school and
all there was a little prompt on the screen and
you're out having I didn't know how to loaded by
forrosoft word or anything like that. That was the hardest part.
(08:36):
The actually writing wasn't wasn't that hard. I mean it
just took very slow, but writing is slow. But I
just I discovered I really liked it, Uh, I really
loved writing something.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I was actually interested to ask on the you know,
the concept of writing. And I normally I would leave
it an advice question for probably later on, but I'm
kind of fascinated. But you know, you mentioned kind of
just dropping the the writing class in film school and
maybe not being you know, not that not that you're
(09:19):
not interested in it, but struggling with like the difficulty
of how they wanted you to whatever put a story
together in destructure and stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
And it's something that wasn't difficult. Difficulty was the actual
typing because there was no There wasn't before computers. It
was like a typewriter. Actual, Yeah, the actual typing was then.
That's why when when computers came along and I could
buy one, then I realized, oh my god, I can
(09:48):
write now. Yeah, I say, I'm like in computers to like, uh,
got a handicaped device, you know, for people like me
they're handicapped. It made it made writing possible.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
What advice would you give to someone who I feel
like there's probably a lot of people who are good
storytellers out there but maybe struggle with And I've even
fallen into this, you know, I've had sometimes before people
recommend me different books to read and things, and I
got like this big big tick like a screenwriting guide
(10:28):
thing like a workbook, and I just found it made
as more horrible. Yeah, like that.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
Will you'll never want to write after you read some
garbage like that. So what I say. What I say
is write the movie you want to see. You see
you can see it here, you know, and just make
that movie here and then write it and make it
just the what you want to see and hopefully then
what you want is what an audience would want, but
(10:57):
making it make it fun and exciting for you, and
and and dare yourself, you know there yourself to come
up with stuff that's just surprising when you go, oh
my god, I shouldn't write that, and then write that?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Is it difficult when doing that because I don't know
if I've just been fed because you hear so many
different versions in so many different ways people tell you, you
know that you have to Okay, yeah, you can have
your own story, you can have your own whatever, but
it has to fit within like the parameters of You've
got to have the paragraphs laid out like this, you
have to have the scenes this way. There has to
be a beat on page twenty seven, you have. If
(11:33):
you don't do it this way, nobody's gonna listen.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Well, it has to be exciting. And again, right, you
know a exciting movie, Well that would excite you to
see it, because if it's been to excite you, it
will probably excite an audience. That's the thing. There's there's
a whole universal thing with with people and if it
(12:00):
and if it gets you dan deep and your gut
when you're when you're thinking it, hit somebody else. Now,
if you're kind of bored when you're doing it, and
if you're following along, uh recipe where okay, it's gotta
have three acts and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
You know what, it's gonna be like the recipe people,
it's gonna be like most movies made. Now.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Yeah, it's it's funny.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Because there I all, we all went to school and
they all learned how to do it. I fortunately, I'd
only last one class in your two classes. And writing,
I've never picked up, never read a book lot anything
like that. But I you know, I go to movies
and I see I see what works. It's all. It's
all you feel it, it doesn't it feels right, then
(12:48):
then it's gonna to be right, and then an audience
is gonna.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Is that what happened with uh, you know you were
Sonny Boy, which I actually any scene for the first
time recent enough, a wild, wild concept, extremely entertaining. Where
I found that I kind of just I don't know,
I feel like like what you said. Nowadays it's it's
(13:16):
you know, I try to go to the movies quite often,
and a lot of times I just feel like maybe
it's more to just say, oh, yeah, I did see
that new movie. I'm not actually pulled into a world
or a universe and a story.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
What the problem with movies now a lot of them
and there's still some good ones made, but that we're
rare and rare and rare is you've got a committee
and they've got a show that they're making money, and
so they decide to well this, this subject works a
little truck.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
One and as they're just they're just piecing together crap
that's already worked, and anybody with a vision they don't
want to, you know, on this, can't they can't okay
that because if it doesn't work, then they'll be in trouble.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
So if they say, well we'll do it like this,
nobody can blame them because they said, well that that
worked over there. You know, we just did what this
other guy did and it worked, and so don't blame us. Yeah,
I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Yeah, it's a weird one. And then it seems like terrible. Yeah,
it seems like as well. Then if an original idea
does work, all the studio execs want to jump on
it and go, see, we knew this would work, we
knew it'd be one hundred million dollar movie. We're so grace.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, well, I don't know. I don't see any really
great hundred million dollar movies these day.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
No, No, they.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
Are fewer and fewer because I get all the screeners,
the directors, Gill scraters, and every year there's one or
two that somehow slipped through. And there are a couple
of directors, young directors that are doing good jobs, but
mostly it's just this, just this an assembly line. Yeah,
they're they're they're cranking out prefabricated housing or prefabricated movies.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
And how how did the story, how did the story
or the idea for a Sonny Boy come about?
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Oh that came out. I got that idea. Well, it's
for a bunch of different plays, but the main idea.
I was a house painter. It was San Francisco. I
was up on the scaffolding about three stories up, and
this guy next to me was from the end. He
tells me the story about this small town where he
(15:45):
came from. And some guy was uh a big stolen car.
He had a whole bunch of stolen cars farm land,
and he had a whole bunch of anyway. So at
some point he he had gotten this kid. He kind
(16:09):
of tortured him and stuff like that, and everyone in town.
The kid grew up, and everyone in town was scared
to that this kid if he walked around with a
big overcoat on and he carried a sowd off shotgun underneath,
and the kid would kill you for nothing. And everyone
in town knew about. Wow, that is a story, and
(16:33):
I remember that one. You know, it was like this
the first hand story, and you know, and then then
the whole the whole transsexual thing came through because that's
I was living in a neighborhood where he had a
bunch of transseptions. So some that speeps people anyway, So
I just kind of mixed it all up.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
And I did read somewhere. I don't know why. I
want you to correct me if this is wrong or
you were misquoted or somebody was misquoted at one point.
But the parlor character was supposed to originally wear black
rubber breasts with milking them the baby.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Oh that's in there. If you see the Blu Ray,
it's in there. They went back to the original one.
Oh yeah, David Carroll, Okay, so there's there's.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
Different cuts of this. Then I assume, huh is there
different cuts of the movie.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Oh yeah, there was a there was a well the
movie came out, he got trashed and and uh the
public was outraged. The poor director wrote me a letter
a couple of years later saying his life in the
group LA. But uh, yeah, no, there's there there were
(17:53):
they cut it down. But yeah, the the Blu Ray
I have definitely has the black fake rests milk and
all that, because I see.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Touching scene, because I did see online people were talking
unredded about there was multiple things kind of chopped up
and taken out, and there was different edits, and there
was different cuts of the movie and I couldn't find.
I couldn't actually seem to well, at least online. I
actually do have the the The Blu Ray ordered, but
(18:29):
from what I could see online, I couldn't find like
a an untouched version or whatever you want to call it.
I don't know if it's like a director's call or
a unrated cut or whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Well, I can tell you that the whole movie kind
of sucks because, ah, they it's Italian producer. I bought it,
and he wouldn't let me directed. He was he was
a real schlockmaster. So they came up with it. And
(19:01):
you see, it was supposed to be a Frankenstein remake. Mmm,
funny Boy was supposed to be this horrible looking creature.
They thought, now we'll make it nice. We'll make it
look like a kind of a nice look at surfer boy.
So you take Frankenstein and you make him into a
surfer boy, you got big problems right there. That's that's
(19:24):
the first thing with they with these the uh, the
fake tits got in.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I don't know how that survived, but you know, it's
it's funny how they make choices like that. Is it
difficult when you write a project like that, and you
want to direct and maybe the powers that be and
then we get all these other people involved and somehow,
you know, maybe you get to a c Is that
difficult to maybe then afterwards look at the final product
(19:49):
and go no, no, no, no no, that's not what
I wanted.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Oh yeah, Well, when they they didn't want me, they
wouldn't let me come to the filming it. I mean
completely yeah, I think Empire Pictures forget who it was. Anyway,
I still had a friend in the in the production
company or the really uh yeah, the production company. When
it was all finished, they invited me into a screen
(20:15):
and it took some friends and I sat in the
front row with one of the executives next to me,
and after about four minutes in, I just kept saying,
I'm gonna kill that fucking director. I'm gonna kill it.
And I didn't know that the producer had made him
rewrite it, and then, you know, I belittled his effort,
(20:38):
and then he sent me this really saw it sorry letter.
I still have it. It's very funny that he he
didn't have a choice and he was forced to rewrite it,
and the movie ruined his life and what it came
out of and hated it, but she had to leave
l A.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
Does that happen often on projects where producers or executives
or I don't know. Sometimes I've heard them referred to
as want to be creatives. I get really involved and
like try to change like.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
These Oh yeah they can. They give ruin everything, and
and and and it's very rare. A director has Final
Sun and the best movies they do because you get
people that aren't real shark that they they look at
it they I could do. And usually the point where
(21:36):
they can get involved in is editing is all the
hard works not so yeah Korean range and stuff. But
they do it with scripts too. I mean, I've I
had a script work. I went into a script meeting
(21:58):
and it was like about ten people around a table
and I came in as the writer. And these were
all executives and they're all young, and they all college
degree he's all gotten out college prety recently, and they
didn't know what to say. And finally one spoke up.
She said, mister Whiffler, I for one can never okay
(22:24):
a strip coming out of our company. There's somebody picking scabs.
And they all agreed and they all went around and
said what they could. I couldn't have the hard and
it was somebody picking scabs, and you know it's like, oh,
you know that, but they all had, they all have
(22:46):
something they needed to be taken out because it bothered them.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
You know, I've heard that several times off air, where
people have told me hard stories about stuff like that,
or they call me a script and everything seen is
to be fine, and then all of a sudden, like
this guy behind this desk and that guy that doesn't
have anything to do comes along and goes, yeah, you
know what I think if we do this dialogue and
actually I was thinking if we put a character in
(23:12):
that doesn't make any sense and has no place, that'd
be like a cool idea because it's doing well over
in this a market. And you know, if we put
a random thing in here that says this.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
In Sunny Boy, the Italian producer was fucking this this lady,
and he put her in his beloved interest, Frankenstein's love
interest because it's arable and there's no reason for her
to the internet. She's riding around a little o bed
new It's like, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Yeah, so odd to me though, way like people who
aren't creative or don't want to be creative, and then
all of a sudden, like you said, once the hard
work is done, now I want to be creative.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Well, yeah, what they want to be creative and it
looks so much fun, you know, mm hmm. They can't
do it when you're shooting Earth they try. I mean,
I've had it's happened to me a few times, which
I just and because I'm directing him, I know what
I want. It's all planned out. I know what I want.
(24:19):
I've been a couple of times drum, I'm thinking about something,
and then one of the crew members has a suggestion,
and then somebody else's suggestion, and two or three people
start suggesting how to play the scene or out to
get shot and all that. Okay, well let's let's vote
on it. And they go, oh, they're all happy, And
(24:39):
I said, fuck you. I'd say, what's going to happen?
You have nothing to say? And then they'll one usual
whimpius person, you're just like Hitler. Well that's the greatest,
the greatest compliment anybody could ever give it. Director, don't
(25:01):
you know that.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, it's such a weird thing, but it's I don't
know for you, like how you feel about the you know,
looking back on that movie in particular now, but it
seems to have developed them like a pretty decent cult following.
Do you think that there's a reason that, like it's
been kept alive by fans for all these years.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Oh? Yeah, it crosses a lot of barriers. I mean
most of them have been We're taken out, but it's
still I mean, David Carradine nursing a baby. I mean,
it's just it's so out there and it was so
ahead of its time. They're only forty years ahead of it. Yeah,
(25:48):
and uh yeah, there's just stuff in Mary. It's just
it's it's wong raw. You should have that sort of
stuff in movies.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
You probably wouldn't even get a You probably wouldn't even
get a conversation nowadays with something like that.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Would you you had a conversation?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, Like if you if you wrote a similar movie
right now, do you think that you would have an
impossible time trying to get it made with with some
of that controversial stuff and like it's very surreal and
wild and out there in the performances or just freakish
at times.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
Yeah, Uh yeah, I don't know. You would definitely have
a hard time, and you probably have protesters.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
It's funny because for one part, I feel like there's
a lot of people out there who want more of
that stuff, you know, who want stuff that's just batchit crazy,
that's just you know, off the wall, there's no holds barred.
But then you always have that other side there, like, no,
you can't do that, you can't say that, you can't
put that in the movie.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Well, the problem is you lose those people that say
you can't have that, They just they just wet the
taste for the people that want it more. And then
there's always a reaction to that kind of stuff, and
that kind of censorship really doesn't you know, they can
(27:22):
try as hard as they can, but yeah, it's like
my daughter, she's she's pretty young, she's early twenties, and uh,
you know, you're not supposed to say the word retard
or retarded, and has all her friends say now because
they're not supposed to say it.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Yeah, yeah, that that is actually you're right about that.
That's definitely a thing. Do you have any what I
would consider comfort movies, whether it be horror movies or
other ways and in the sense yeah, yeah, in the
sense of like maybe movies that you would revisit more
often than.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
What my favorite movie is. And it is a comfort movie.
It's called A Place in the Sun. Okay, old one, Yeah,
Place in the Sun Montgomery Cliff and uh Lubeth Taylor
and Shelley Water in Ringdenburgh and it's just I just
love it because it's a morality tape and it's it's
(28:32):
it's hardcore morality.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
It's the fan And what what do you think it
is about it that I guess draws you back.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
A couple of things. Number One, George Stevens directs it, right,
It's probably his greatest movie he directed. He was a
cameraman on a lot of the Laurel and hardy mm hmm.
And the way it's for photograft is just amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
He uh.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
In some of the scenes he would do, you know,
twenty or thirty different angles and they've got He's got
two close ups in that film that are in the
most magnificent close ups ever in any movie ever. I
mean there, this is when you judge movies or close ups.
Apple Ball is a bit of tailor that are just amazing.
And then yeah, the good Tailor at the Montgomery Cliff
(29:26):
with a little bit of tailor. Just it's and and
chilly winner. But it's and it's just morality. It's doesn't
let down, it's it's it's really interesting me.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I'm gonna say something out it won't sound as it
won't sound as I guess clever and and sinifi like
when I when I bring up something like doctor Giggles
and put that in the same format as like something
that I in. There's many others considered like a comfort movie,
like I don't know, a go to movie if it's
(30:00):
like the nostalgia of the time or something like that.
That brings me back to that, But a lot of
people don't know the actual I guess story behind that
that that is vastly different from what you had actually
written and intended that to be, right.
Speaker 3 (30:20):
Doctor Giggles. Yeah, well there is a version I wanted.
Took the script and I read did I remade it?
I know?
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And I was going to get that because I actually
got a chance to see that as well.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Yeah, that's a good one. My friend Nick Sercy stars
in it. A smashing job.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
What was the question, Yeah, just on the like for
for a lot of people out there who who whether
you like that movie Doctor Giggles or not, won't know
that you know that wasn't your original intention.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Oh, they they paid me. I bought a house with
the money they paid me, and they just kept the
character names pretty well. I'll tell you the story of
the original Doctor Giggles and where that one came from.
It's two different stories. I'm a big I listened to
(31:15):
the radio all the time for news stories. I love
this oddball news people people messing up. So there were
these are two stories I heard. Actually one one was
from TV documentary and the setup was this guy an
(31:39):
ambulance driver or work as an EMT, and he worked
with a bunch of people and he'd always offer to
buy donuts for everybody. And they all go out there
buying donuts, and they go out there on the day's work.
People started complaining because they were in diarrhea all the time,
(32:04):
and they didn't know that this guy didn't dosed in
their donuts. But he went ahead and he went from
an EMT, went to medical school right and he he
was he was going farther and give him diarrhea. He
was killing patients, and so they went to after they
(32:28):
put him in jail, they went to his house with
the camera and he opened up coverards in the kitchen
and filled the kitchen. But in the coveroards it was
nothing but different kinds of poisons, right, And they asked
him in the jail cell, they said, we want to
your house and there are all these all these poisons
in the kitchen. And he said, well, every doctor has
(32:52):
to know about poisons. So that that was that guy,
and I took him. And then there was another one
I heard on the news about. Uh, this guy. He
had a problem with his uh, male body parts. He
were they were bothering him or they were taking too
(33:16):
much of his attention, and so he uh, well he
eventually what he did is he took his dining room
table and put a sheet over it and then put
a light up there in a mirror. And uh, he
(33:38):
had done a bunch of research. He figured out was
a land and in his in his abdomen, it was
a problem. The real cause of the problem wasn't as genital,
but the real cause was his land. So he opened
himself up dug in there to get that land. And
(33:59):
it was so painful you couldn't continue, and he had
to call in an ambulance and they brought her to
the hospital, and the people of the hospital said he
had done a pretty good professional job opened himself up.
And the kicker was they weren't surprised to see him
because he'd been in three months earlier when he after
(34:21):
he cut off his dick. So anyway, I took those
two people, put them together into one delightful package, and
then then put him as a neighbor next door to
a nice young yuppie couple that kind of scary and
they had they had their own problems with fear.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So when you when you came up with that original
concept for what a lot of people taught ended up
being doctor Giggles, which we'll get to in a second,
because you actually managed to make the movie that you
more intended to make. But so they just they just
pay you like a boatload of money and then just
completely changed the whole idea. What's the point for them
(35:08):
of doing that, like of taking your story and then
just completely just not doing it.
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Because well that was that was the one where the
first I think who was was I'm fucking mentioned names,
But the first one was when he told me that
somebody told me they came out scab picking, they ended
up passing, and I want to somebody out through Warner Brothers.
(35:39):
Famous producer there. I used to buy Frank Wi right
houses and he was going to do it and they
they got they got a lead producer and he told
me my agent had me rewriting scripts. And I told me,
(36:00):
he said, you know, I want something that's just really
cheesy and will play to a grindhouse. I don't want this,
and I don't want this and I don't want this,
and oh and dead Ringers had just come out. I said,
I want these kind of tools like in Dead Ringers.
Oh so, anyway, I did two rewrites to them, and
they hated the rewrites, and so they got another guy
(36:23):
and they just they just any kodo and and uh yeah,
they just changed it completely. And then he stole stuff
from Hitchcock to thirty nine, the mirror scene from thirty
nine steps or anyway, And so I one side, they
(36:47):
were there's another film. They wouldn't let me watch the
production on right to keep me a la oh no
what this? So I went and they didn't even invite
me to a screening. I got a V eight just
anonymously in the bail a year later. That's that's really nice,
But so I want to see it. Matt ned local
(37:10):
Blundelle Theater and he sat there and the audience, the
few people that were in there were just bored to tears.
You just feel it, because there was just they just
recycled all this old horror stuff and they tried to
recycle it to make it a little nicer, and it
(37:32):
was just it was like this, there's nothing there.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
How does that feel for you at that point, Like,
obviously haven't gone through what you did with the likes
of Sonny Boy. Did you have a little bit ticker
skin when it came to you know, I wish I
could tell people they just tore my whole idea part.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Uh, Well, I dealt with it. I didn't you know.
Oh I didn't hurt anybody. I didn't drive around shooting people. No,
it's part of the Yes, it comes with the territory.
(38:15):
It's it's a it can be a real bit of business.
And I wasn't in the position where I could that. Fine.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Is that the worst part for a writer, especially when
it comes to you know, this kind of medium of
storytelling that your.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Well, but I wasn't really a writer. I was a
director who wrote.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I know how.
Speaker 3 (38:37):
I knew how to do the second part even better
than the writing. Mm hmm, because a lot of writers
don't know how to do that. Man, like because casting
and working with actors and production design and all that
stuff that most writers don't little about that and you
don't want to near it, oh the new.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
All do you think not to say that it's like
a conspiracy or anything like that, but do you think
in certain productions, if maybe the studio or executives have
an ulterior motive that they don't want somebody like you,
then in the sense of like, Okay, this guy knows
how to direct, he knows how to deal with the cast,
(39:19):
he knows how to structure a story. He's just going
to keep trying to push back against our well oh.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, well, and then this is this is a more
modern for big studios. Yeah, they don't want look for
new directors, people that they can tell what to do. Yeah,
they don't want they don't want anyone with firm vision
(39:48):
because you know they they have got their ideas. So
then yeah, so so there, it's most of it. That's
why most of it is his schlock, you know, and
it's kind of boring. And then everyone's in a while, Well,
every year there's a few good ones that sneak through,
and there's a few directors that are able to penetrate that,
(40:09):
but never would the giant budget.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Yeah, it's unfortunate. Like I I know some other like
relatively new directors who got the opportunity to get involved
with some of the bigger hor eypies and then just
got pushed into a corner, told the movie they were making.
The movie comes out, movie flops, everyone blames him. And
(40:34):
then it's like I'm stuck between obviously the audience thinking
I'm absolutely garbage, and then the fact that the executives
are like, you'll do what you're told or you'll never
make another fucking movie.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
That is that's that's so true. This this is this
is this is the the big trap for directors. Say
you're you're young director, and you made a couple just
brilliant movies. Everyone all their eyes going, that guy's hot,
let's get him. Then they'll come to you and they'll
(41:05):
say we'll give you a pile of money to direct
or movie. And you go, well no, and they'll tell
you what to do, and then their movie that they've
had isn't very good and you may never get to
make another good one.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Mm that. Yeah, I do see that happening a lot,
and it's unfortunate because I think from a younger me,
I never considered that perspective. It always just you know,
the media or whoever would just tell you, or some critic,
some guy who never made a movie in his life
would be the one to tell you, well, obviously this
director is garbage. He has no vision, he hasn't got
(41:45):
a clue, and you just kind of hear that and go, oh, yeah,
of course he's just a terrible filmmaker, and that's that's
the end of it.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
You always look for their first few movies, I'll tell
you every yeah, and there's so many that their first
few movies are just absolutely brilliant, and then you never
see hear him again, or then then it's coming out
with the studio and it's like what that's just everything else?
You comes down what happened that guy?
Speaker 2 (42:12):
Would that have been difficult for you with the time
If let's say the doctor giggles thing and they sit
down and go, okay, you know, we want you to
direct this, but this is the movie. It's not your
movie anymore. It's this thing that we've come up with.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
Oh I I probably couldn't have done it. I probably
would have because I'm such a whore, but of course, yeah,
people are coruptible. But yeah, I probably wouldn't have known
what to do. I wouldn't have had any passion.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Yeah, I think that that ultimately as well as shines true.
I think you've alluded to it a few times that
people can see through that for the most part, that
like if there's passion behind something, or if people just
don't give a shit and they're just making it just
to try and make money.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Yeah, because it is a great art form. It's just
it's really hard to.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
What was that process you mentioned earlier and some people
may not notice, And this was something I really wanted
to to highlight because I think a lot of people
probably won't notice. But the process that you had to
go through to waste well over a decade to finally
(43:38):
make the movie that I think I've heard you say
best resembles your original vision for like the Doctor or
Mister Giggles or whatever you want to call it. A
character with your movie. I think it's had. I don't
know if it's a regional thing with the names. There's
Deadly Turn and then I've seen it called Neighborhood Watch.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah, we start out as Neighborhood Watch. Then we couldn't
find a distributor, and we got a distributor because the
others distributors wanted to cut all up. We found a
distributor who would distribute it, but they just said they
had to do the name change because they wanted the
first letter title to be higher up in the alphabet.
(44:24):
He warped luck Cliff for people to see it. We
the God. So it was just like this genericle.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
What was that process like to have to wait all
that time and then finally get to make the movie
that you felt like, you know, is as close to
maybe that original idea.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Well, I was just doing other things, yeah, of course,
but that was always busy. I mean, it wasn't like, yeah,
they put me on some drugs and I was.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
I just and in the sense of like, obviously this
idea was enough. It was simmering in the background enough
for you to to want to revisit a decade later.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Well, we're simmer Well, the script both both those scripts
are just killers to read. The doctor giggles one. I mean,
I'd make people would get sick with them just read it.
I had one I had sending out to a lot
(45:28):
of studio people and one guy said I had to
open up all the windows in my house. I couldn't breathe. Sorry,
And then the movies new, the new movie. It's really
funny when I what festival stuff we would. The first
time I showed it was in New York at the
(45:52):
that theater down and oh, I don't know, I think
it's where's a Deniros theater anyway, So it was all
I went dan to speak. You know, if the movie
was over, I could get down the aisle because somebody
passed out. And it turned out every time i'd show
this sucker, somebody would pass ever have a seizure, you
(46:15):
know what. Right.
Speaker 2 (46:16):
So I've seen a lot of a lot of movies.
I've seen a lot of fucked up and weird shit.
I've read a lot of weird shit. I've looked at
a lot of real life uncomfortable with horrible things. And
number one, actually, which I think is a travesty. I
actually found it quite difficult to find this movie, which
(46:40):
I think is a little bit of a travesty. But
when I did watch it, I found myself genuinely and
this is no word of a lie in people who
know me or have listened to the show or things
like that, for you know, a bit of time will
know I normally don't have an issue with anything, but
I there was a few times during this that I
he struggled to like not look away and be like,
(47:04):
this is really just how it's shot, how it's laced
the whole thing. I was like, this is making me really,
really uncomfortable.
Speaker 3 (47:12):
It's a story that's being told and his house being told,
and it's it's designed to creep up on you and
it gets in here. It was so funny because I
was watch people because I know exactly what and what's
gonna do and uh, and it's uh. You see him
flopping around. It's a bunny and one guy who's a
(47:38):
bit borderline retarded, and he came out to the lobby
pass some time he came out. At that point, you,
I don't know, I don't think I can watch anymore.
So you go back in. It's gonna be it's gonna
be nicer.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
I want to like that was where where did you
get that? I don't know that that kind of mind
for stuff like that that like freakish, uh.
Speaker 3 (48:05):
You know what you'd have to ask when Loma she's dead.
I don't know. I was always a peculiar child, they
told me so. I definitely like the odd things. And
I didn't always have a haunted house going in the
cross space of our whole my shrunken heads down there.
(48:28):
And you know, do you.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Seek out that kind of uh, that kind of content,
like do you watch movies that.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Are well, I generally watch, well, most of the most
horror movies really bore me. The best horror movie I've
seen recently, it wasn't too recent. Well, I kind of
liked bo Was Afraid. Yeah, it's truly a horror movie.
But I also like The Witch mm hmm. But most
horror instance, you know where it's coming from and it's
(49:00):
a bunch of blood. Slaughter is not really an interest.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Yeah, this movie is.
Speaker 3 (49:08):
Is one.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
I think. Again, I don't know what the reception has been,
like you know, in the States and things like that,
but I know upon researching over here, I think it's
only starting to like rEFInd its audience again, which I
find happens a lot with horror movies or anything horror adjacent.
Even a lot of times they kind of come out,
(49:29):
people see them, and then over time the community gets
on it and like it starts to build and build
and building. They gain these huge followings and they get
re releases on Blu rays, and you'll probably be asked
to do a director's commentary, and there'll be a box
set and this and that. Is that something that you
would entertain because I personally think that this movie, like
(49:51):
I said, it takes a lot for me to kind
of cringe at the screen, but I genuinely, like, I
only watched it yesterday and I was like, wow, this
is making me extremely uncomfortable. And there's only a handful
of characters, but it's so.
Speaker 3 (50:07):
And there's no blood. Yeah blood. You see. What what
the movie does is that you're afraid of what you
may see. It's nothing up there and yeah, in a
cross as there is a bunch of different things you're
not supposed to see on TV. And it's a movie.
(50:32):
Say you're talking about comfort movies, And I just gotta
say my favorite, one of my favorite signs of Place
in the Sun Texas Chainsaw Massacre. I'm a big fan
of Texas Chainsaws.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
He was very little blood in that, yeah, being a
big fan them of the original Texas chain So I know.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
The rest of all the remakes.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
I was literally going to ask have you had a
chance to see any of those? And I sippolos, what's
your opinion on I feel like that happens a lot
now with studios. They get their hands on an ip
and it's like, let's just fucking rinse this thing till
there's nothing left.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, Number two was kind of I
like the parts yeah instead, but other than that, it
was like there was nothing there. You know, the ones
first one is brilliant. What you know, I even thought.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
That in your opinions as a filmmaker, do you think
that things like that, like franchises, let's say, shouldn't exist
then in that sense, because I feel like the more
we get, for the most part in a in a franchise,
the more the bigger the number added on to like
you know, Part two, Part three, Part four, Part five,
(51:45):
they progressively get worse and worse.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
People will go see them. I don't know, you can't
outlaw them, but people will go see them and then
they do them, because that's again they they're fairly sure
they'll make money and they can't. Executives can't be fired
for okay a franchise, does it made money before? Yeah,
(52:13):
that's their safe way out. But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Is that something that would have ever interested you or
would interest you? You know if somebody, if you had
a conversation, someone said, look, we have our hands on X,
Y and z IP. Is there any chance maybe we
could see what you think?
Speaker 3 (52:34):
If I was offered to do a remake of something,
I would it'd be completely different m because because I
would sit down and examine it, I'd let it touch me,
and then I'd write that movie that's in my head
that I want to see because that's all the stuff
I want to see.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Speaking of that as something else that I think is
kind of lost on people from an audience perspective. When
you're a filmmaker, uh, you know, when you get into
a room you mentioned getting into a room with executives
and stuff. The skill of having to try and pitch
or sell your idea. Is that something that can only
be done by experiences.
Speaker 3 (53:19):
I don't know. I never really did that I was
not very success of a watch. I didn't not really
was supposed to do that at first. I can just
want to right way in a Rota script made a movie,
so I was so naive. But the whole you know,
the whole idea of pitching too, I don't know. It's
just I don't like committees. I do you not like committee? Were? Yeah,
(53:45):
I guess you'd say. I do not play well with others,
especially directs like Hitler.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
I feel like, especially in those situations though, it's it's
a very strange. Like I said, you know, I got
close with some Irish filmmakers who have started to make
more American style of movies and things like that with
some of the bigger companies, and you know, they mension
the things like the water bottle tour, where someone hears
(54:16):
you had one good idea. You're invited to all these
meetings and studios and you get the free water and
it's like everybody tells you all this shit, and then
you realize when you get home that nobody's calling back,
nobody's emailing back, nobody cares, nobody's interested.
Speaker 3 (54:33):
Well, I was in meeting with one woman in a
studio and It's really funny because I didn't really know
I supposed to have some of the picture, and I
didn't know what she's eat with me. I really did
not agents and all that. So when in her she did,
she kind of she got kind of nervous because she
didn't know what they're talking about. So she finally says, well, Graham,
(54:56):
what kind of movies do you like? And I looked
at her with dead eyes. I like movies where people
get hurt. And I can just see her reaching under
the desk to press the little button to get you already.
(55:17):
I do like movies where people get hurt. Those are
the only ones I like. And that happens to be comedy.
That's tragedy, you know, that's that's the whole that's the
whole basis of drama.
Speaker 2 (55:29):
Would you have liked to have made more projects? Is
it something that you'd still be talking to right now?
Speaker 3 (55:36):
Oh? Yeah, but I did. I did. I've got a
nice body of work and I did, And it's an
interesting ty stuff I did. Uh convinced a good part
of the nation here that the world was gonna end.
That was fun and uh, you.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
Know, is it something that's still because you feel like
a passionate person and somebody who's genuinely interested in what
they're talking about, versus sometimes I feel like people just
talk at you or just say whatever they think people
want to hear. Do you still have that desire like
as regards to like, I don't know where right now
(56:21):
you're at with like your writing or directing or things like.
Speaker 3 (56:25):
That, or I don't know if I'll you another movie.
I don't know. It's just it's just I'm old. It's
like a really hard thing to do, but every day
I have to be constantly at and it's one of
the only things that really gives me joy. And I've
(56:46):
been doing it all my life, since I was a
little tiny kid. And I don't know. I can't explain it.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
And when you say being creative, is that is that
sitting down and coming up with a story or fleshing
out of concept?
Speaker 3 (57:02):
Uh? Any number of ways? Any number of ways, any
number one.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Would you have? I was just gonna ask, would you
have a desire to I don't know, release, because I'm
sure you probably have many works, many stories, many ideas
that you know, never saw the light of they, have
you ever?
Speaker 3 (57:25):
I don know, Actually, I don't have a lot of
a lot of scripts. Everything I've written has gotten made,
like if files of unmated.
Speaker 2 (57:36):
Well, even I don't even mean yeah, you know, I don't.
Speaker 3 (57:39):
I'm not writing them to putt in a drawer, so
uh yeah, well.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
I mean even I I don't know like if maybe
you have ideas or just concepts for stories or something
like that. I just I seen a little bit of
a turn during the pandemic where some filmmakers were like,
you know what, I'm gonna like make a little book.
I'm gonna put some of my short stories in it,
or stuff that just seems to just keep getting pushed
(58:05):
back at me, like, Oh, it's too too over the top,
it's too crazy, it's too wild. You can't do that.
Is that something you would ever entertain?
Speaker 3 (58:19):
Yeah, I'll entertain anything, but I gotta I gotta see
that there is a what a ray of light to
get it getting that there?
Speaker 2 (58:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (58:28):
Yeah, because that you know, it's I'd do what I
like to build things that get them done.
Speaker 2 (58:37):
Yeah. No, that makes sense. And what piece of advice
would you give to either an inspiring writer or a filmmaker.
I guess now is it? Is it literally just a
case of having to try and do and create and
make because I feel like a lot of people I
mentioned that probably even myself before, about you know, screenwriting, handbooks,
(59:00):
workbooks and all this shit, and we we listened to
two hundred podcasts about how to do it, but we
never actually try and shoot anything with a camera. We
never actually put pen to paper, or we never type
anything on the computer.
Speaker 3 (59:15):
Well, I can't. I don't know, I've I've never read
any of those books, and I you know, I wouldn't
recommend it. I would recommend doing I mean, that's that's
the only the only way you get in is to
do it. And you know, if you're going for visuals,
(59:38):
I mean I started on photography and I still do
photography because it's the image, you know, and even though
on a moving image, it's still the image, and it's
that's the way to connect with people. And you can
tell whether you're connecting with with just an image. And
as far as writing, right, don't don't read any books,
(01:00:01):
and don't listen to anybody, and don't definitely don't go
to school experts tell you is it? You know, anybody's
teaching writing the teaching it because they can't do it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
You know, it's funny that so many people have told
me that, don't listen to anybody when you want to
write or you want to do something just right, don't
listen to anybody's do this yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Listen to yourself. That's you know where I said, uh,
write for yourself and if it's boring to you, then
change it, make it, just make it them. You know again,
I always revert back to about three years old. About
three years old, that's when I kind of reached my maturity.
(01:00:50):
You well, you do something creative and you go get
trouble for them, that's you.
Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So, you know, looking forward
in to the future, is there anything I don't know
that you have left on your your book at list
or in your mind that you're like, you know, I'd
love to I'd love to get that project on or
whether it be a film and TV.
Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Things, but I don't what we need to talk about.
Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Yeah, of course, of course, is there anywhere where people
can maybe keep up to date or I don't know,
in case something does come about or will we just
hear about it on you? And because I've seen you
pop up from time to time, you know what bloody
discussed and in different places like that Red Central and
(01:01:43):
things like that. So is that probably where people could
expect to see if there's something somewhere like that. Yeah, yeah,
final question and would be and I don't want to
say I normally ask why horror, but I feel like
it's it's so much more vast than that. Forew But
what eat way filmmaking way that medium and what does
it mean to you?
Speaker 3 (01:02:07):
See? Well, I started watching TV as a little kid,
and then when my first color movie I've ever seen
colored before. I love movies. But the thing is movies
and and all that the ultimate four of those are dreams.
(01:02:31):
That's that's It's all dreams. And if you can make
a movie, is a grossing is a dream? I mean,
I love dream.
Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
It's just it's.
Speaker 3 (01:02:42):
Subconscious in movies. It's so important, it's really And that's
one of the reasons that that uh Ded Leander Neighborhood
Watch is so troubling, is it is working on like
a dream type of thing. There's imagery there that it's
(01:03:03):
just it's all it's all about dreams, and the best
movies you feel like you're watching the dream or your
heaven a dream.
Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that, and I will say, uh,
as we're closing this chat out that that at the
end or Neighborhood Watch definitely felt like that for me.
I was like, it's kind of surreal, sort of like
fever dream. I was like, I don't know, like I
feel like when I was thinking about it a couple
of days later, I was like, I was like, is
(01:03:39):
that some weird repressed memory or was that just a
movie I watched? I don't know if like some of
the imagery, I was like, wait, did I dream that
or did I see that?
Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
Well, A lot of my a lot of my imagery
in the in the stuff I write, and yeah, it's
it's all. It's all repressed memories. A lot of it
is or stuff I've just seen.
Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
I love that, Graham. It's been a pleasure to chat.
It's been an honor. I would love to hopefully if there's,
if there's any announcements in the future, we'll be able
to link up again and and chat.
Speaker 3 (01:04:14):
Thank you so much for me.
Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
It's a pleasure. I wish you all the best.
Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
And you obviously love film.
Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Oh I do. I surely do. And like I said,
I I appreciated that film when I It's funny because
I you know, I had seen Doctor Giggles so young,
and I always had this weird like memory about the
cover the artwork with the eyes, and I was like
and over the years and and and then I found
out that that wasn't the original kind of idea and concept,
(01:04:44):
and then I became enamored with like, wait, what's this
other movie? And then to see it and it's like, ah,
now I get now, I get it kind of I
can see now why Yeah, But nobody.
Speaker 3 (01:04:58):
In the in the audience pa that Berg went into
a seizure watching Doctor No. It's a safe movie. You
can take your family. No one's gonna have a bad reaction.
Look those psychotic breakdown I saw somebody of a psychotic breakdown.
Speaker 2 (01:05:14):
Watch you know what, It wouldn't actually surprise me. So
for everybody listening, if you can do one thing for me,
If you can find a copy of Neighborhood Watch or
Deadly End, pick it up, watch it, and then message
me on social media or in the comments below wherever
you're listening to this, and let me know what you
(01:05:35):
think of it, because I'd be fascinated, Like I said,
I watch a lot of movies from all genres, but
a lot of horror, a lot of weird horror, a
lot of I don't know, uncomfortable, unsettling content around horror,
and this one genuinely made me cringe at several parts,
even with just a dialogue. It was not even really happening,
(01:05:56):
and I was like, I don't know why he makes
me so uncomfortable, but I can the scene where he
comes to the door with the he says it's grapes
or preserves or whatever, and that's where we kind of
see the switch in the character and like the dude
tells him to get the fuck out. And I can't
remember the specifics of the dialogue there, but it was
(01:06:18):
fantastic where he says something about like oh, when you're
doing something with that sparm something whatever, and I was like, whoa,
this is like it's like a switch just turned in
his head. That was fantastic.
Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Well, I have nothing to do with that. I don't
think like that. My brain doesn't work like that. That's
something I just made up personally.
Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
We'll leave it there before I get you in trouble
and Graham, it's been fantastic. I hope we can stay
in touch and I would love to do this again.
Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Class Horrorcast. Stop
the CHC podcast at classharrorcast dot com at first Class Horror,
on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, or on Twitter at Class
Underscore Horror. The CHC podcast is hosted and produced by
Aaron Doyle and is an fcch production
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