In this episode, we go behind the scenes with legendary production designer Graham “Grace” Walker—the visual mastermind behind films like Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, House of Wax, Pitch Black, and a long run on The Walking Dead.
From his earliest art department credits on Caddie (1976) and Summerfield (1977) to his modern horror designs, Walker’s career spans gritty, visceral worlds and cult classics alike.
We unpack his work on The Walking Dead—eighty episodes of post-apocalyptic decay and must-see set transformation—and his stylized design vision in Baz Luhrmann’s surreal Beyond Thunderdome and the waxy nightmares of House of Wax.
But most thrillingly, we dive into Walker’s memories of the famously chaotic 1996 production of The Island of Dr. Moreau, directed by Richard Stanley and later taken over by John Frankenheimer.
Walker not only designed the sets, but appears briefly in the documentary Lost Soul: The Doomed Journey of Richard Stanley’s Island of Dr. Moreau recounting the madness on set.
Expect tales of:
Check out more of my content here - https://linktr.ee/FirstClassHorror
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/class-horror-cast--4295531/support.
From his earliest art department credits on Caddie (1976) and Summerfield (1977) to his modern horror designs, Walker’s career spans gritty, visceral worlds and cult classics alike.
We unpack his work on The Walking Dead—eighty episodes of post-apocalyptic decay and must-see set transformation—and his stylized design vision in Baz Luhrmann’s surreal Beyond Thunderdome and the waxy nightmares of House of Wax.
But most thrillingly, we dive into Walker’s memories of the famously chaotic 1996 production of The Island of Dr. Moreau, directed by Richard Stanley and later taken over by John Frankenheimer.
Walker not only designed the sets, but appears briefly in the documentary Lost Soul: The Doomed Journey of Richard Stanley’s Island of Dr. Moreau recounting the madness on set.
Expect tales of:
- Building dense dystopias for The Walking Dead—how you make a world feel dead in every corner
- Crafting the post-apocalyptic cityscape of Beyond Thunderdome and the visceral horror interiors of House of Wax
- Surviving the Moreau production nightmares: creature-heavy jungles, star clashes, and set takeovers
- His early Australian cinema roots—including Dead Calm, Crocodile Dundee, and the early Mad Max films
- How production design shapes storytelling in horror, sci‑fi, and genre films
Check out more of my content here - https://linktr.ee/FirstClassHorror
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/class-horror-cast--4295531/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You can run, but you can't hide from the class
hard cast hunting you from the Emerald Isle. Your host,
Aaron Doyle takes you on a journey to the depths
of horror with exclusive interviews, horror news, reviews, and more.
Tickets Please you were about you under the theater of
the mad Enjoy the.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Show program, Welcome to the show. Pleasure to have you on.
How are you doing today? I'm good, yep good, Yeah,
you're doing good.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah good.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I always like to go back to the start when
I when I talk to people, do you remember your
first experience with the horror genre in particular, like as
a fan as an audience member?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Uh? Not really, No, No, I think I don't. My
first horror stuff was working with Joel.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Was that just something that then you got into so like,
growing up you weren't necessarily a fan of of some
of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I can't really say I was, you know, a real
fan of horror. You know, I did whatever whatever movies
sort of came my way. I jumped into for Boots
and all. Yeah, I mean Mad Max was I guess
(01:24):
you could say there was some horrible scenes. I may
have got a bit of a taste of it.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Then you know, you worked on Mad Max two Beyond Thunderdome.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
What was that experience like?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
And I suppose now looking back, did you have any
idea at the time you know how much those those
movies would stand the test of time.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
No, no idea at all, But it was a very
exciting time for me. I mean, when I first read
the script of Next Too, I was like over the
moon because it was probably everything that I really love,
like cars and designing weird stuff and everything which wasn't
(02:12):
really related to horror, And the making of that film
was like something I'll never forget. I mean, it was
just a blast, but certainly had no idea that it
would go on to do what it was.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Do you think You know, a lot of people say
to me when they're involved in different projects that obviously,
you know, the script has to be there, the story
has to be there, all these things have to come together.
But I oftentimes feel like from talking to people behind
the scenes that if the passion and the energy isn't
there from everybody involved, that seems to be a real
(02:48):
key in like making these things stick around.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Oh differitely, oh differently, And that was one film that
Oh the passion was there with one hundred percent because
also it was an era of the Australian film industry
when we were just sort of kicking off again, if
you like. So just about anything we did, everybody put
(03:13):
their passion and love into, but made Mix stood out,
I think, and the challenge of having very very low
budget and making it all come together for what we
had was you know, it was all part of that
with part of that patient really.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
You know, on on a on a franchise like that,
when when you're tasked with that job. Was that difficult
having to come up with I think a lot of
the things we see now visually when we look back
at those movies, you know, we have as an audience
member have no concept as to maybe the difficulties of
design and some of that stuff of how things are
going to look.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Was that a difficult thing? Yes?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
And no, uh it was. Look, it was difficult in
the fact that what you had in your mind that
you would really really love to do, you couldn't do
because we only had three million dollars to do the
whole film. That was the budget, So we had to
make do with with him with a little money we had.
So that was the That was the challenge.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
For for people who maybe don't know. And I feel like,
you know, a lot of people now were getting more
interested in a lot of behind the scenes under different
roles and.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
What people do.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What what is the role of I suppose you've done
several things, production designer, you've done art director.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
What what exactly? Yeah? Like what what?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
What exactly is the role of let's say a production
designer for example?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Well, I mean the role is basically to put together
a look, an overall look of the of the whole
film from you know, I mean there are different, very
different calls from different producers or whatever at times, and
the leeway they give you some designers, I know, just
(05:16):
you won't probably do anything if they can't say what
the color should be or you know, lots of different factors.
But yeah, I mean a production designer is the look
of the movie. It's the design of the film, the sets,
the vehicles in some cases, so it's a pretty major role.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
When does that start for you? Like what stage in
the production? Like I think a lot of people assume,
you know, you just show up on the first day
of shooting and you're just kind of like putting stuff
in the background and you have this truck full of
thought that you just kind of put there. But like,
at what stage in the development do you have to
start thinking about all this stuff and having conversations with
either the director or whoever.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Probably the first person well, I mean, I'm not sure
if they talk to the people about music or anything.
I'm sure that comes in post production. But if a
producer is getting a movie together, first of all, they've
got to get a director, and then the director really
then wants to see the designer first, because it's probably
(06:25):
not just the design of the film and what you
may be drawing up and designing and putting down on
paper and what you're going to make, but it's locations
as well, so you know, you've got to decide where
you're going to make the film and everything. So a
designer meets with the director and say, second on the ground,
I would say.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
How difficult is this to, you know, to pull off
a job like that in the sense of, you know,
we often hear times about directors and they have a
certain style, they have a certain look, So I don't know,
let's say David Lynch, for example, people kind of feel like,
you know, he has a particular style that we see
(07:08):
across as movies that you can kind of draw lines,
whereas I feel like, you know, a job is important
of yours it's And when I say just from from
my outside perspective, not a lack of style, I don't
mean that as in no skill. I mean as in
you kind of have to have every style and every
vision and every because all these projects can be so
(07:30):
vastly different that you can't necessarily have like a, well,
this is how I make it look and just use
that on every movie.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
You have to have everything in your toolbox correct.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, which which I think brings brings us to the
point that a designer has to have a a pretty
damn good imagination because you have to move from you know,
from horror to the love or whatever it might be.
And also you have to not put up with, but
(08:00):
you have to go with. If the director has a
certain vision, then you've got to sort of fit your
thinking into his vision or you've got to be able
to sway him around how you would really like it
to be. And I've been caught up with some directors
who say, hey, Grace, SIT's up to you. Look, let's
go for it, and others that might go, oh, no,
(08:21):
I want to have it like this, you know this,
which then it becomes a bit difficult. So you've got
to go out of your your safe home feeling into
in the days. So it's trick.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, I would imagine, And a few people have said
to me, not in the same in the same role,
but in you know, in differing roles.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
You know, the.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Idea of having having that skill to be able to
make the other person think it's their idea. Maybe if
you need something change that you can be like if
you can plan and put it on them and go, oh,
that was a great idea you came up with.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah. Yeah, But I mean if if you, for instance,
you say you're working with someone like, as you said before,
David Lynch, well you know you'd be a fool not
to go with what he what with what he would want,
because you respect him, you know what he does, you
know you love him. He's great. Oh great, David, that's
a great idea. I will make it look exactly how
(09:19):
you want it. But unfortunately I didn't get to really
work with anyone like David Lynch, and a lot of
the time I was working with first time directors who
thought they were David Lynch and and you know, they
would stick to what they thought was a great idea,
which I thought was shite. So you know, you have
(09:43):
you have those problems and and Joel did I must
put on some first time directors that weren't too good.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, I've had that many times, to be honest. Yeah,
you also worked on something that I'm assuming that you've
been asked about this before. When you mentioned, you know,
maybe having issues and things like that, the Island.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Of Doctor Morreau, I knew you were going to say.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah the minute you mentioned like trouble productions and stuff,
I feel like that's it's at top. But I think
that a lot of people still don't know, even though
we got the documentary a couple of years back about
it and it kind of started the circulating again, there's
a lot of people out there, I think that don't
realize how troubled the production was on that. How much
(10:36):
of that were you exposed to, because just from the documentary,
which I'm sure is skewed a certain way, it just
seemed absolute like just mayhem.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
It was. It really was, but it had a long history.
I mean I think I was on it for a
better year. Look. To be honest with you, I love
working on that movie. I love the cha us and
and I especially love what what we did as an
art department in the creation of the the house and
(11:09):
everything on the island. So I loved it. But it
got mad. Frankenheimer hated Kilmer, Kilma, didn't like anyone. Uh
uh what God his name? Now? The other guy?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Uh, how do I not remember the name?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Sorry? Brand Yes, brand So it was a constant, like
you know, it was a fight. And Frankenheimer he didn't
really care anyway, because you know, he was just brought
in as a second director and he was going to
get paid a lot of money, I would presume to
(12:05):
try and get it together, which he kind of didn't
do well. In fact, now that's wrong. He did. He
did do it, but it was with a lot of
a lot of difficulty. And one of the things I
was very proud of on that film was well, there
was instance one day when Brando wouldn't come out of
(12:25):
his trailer and frank and him is going, what's going on?
What's going on? You know? And I was called to
his trailer with Frankenheimer. When we went to his trailer
and he's going, well, so what's wrong with it? Come on,
tell me what I'm going about to shoot this? And
he said there's no movement. He meant in the set,
(12:47):
there was no movement. And I've looked at you know,
I looked at him. What do you mean? He said,
there's just no movement in the set. And I got
to tell you, it's one of the nicest sets I've
ever walked on. That's pretty good from him, and I
should should I tell you this? But anyway, I was
sitting opposite him, and he was wearing a pair of
(13:10):
like pajamas shorts and which were very wide and open.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Where this is going?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Can I? But anyway, I'm looking at him, but I
couldn't help glancing down, and he's nuts for hanging out. Anyway,
this went on and we went outside and Frankenheimer said, Okay,
get moving, get some blinds in there, get wind blowing
through the doors, and then all that. And he had
(13:41):
said Brando had said, even just a crystal ball. So
I had to do all the stuff that the director.
And this is another thing about designing and directing. I
did not want to have curtains in the damn house.
I did not want wind and coming through the door.
But anyway, we did that. I went to the props guy,
(14:02):
I said, have you got one of those little crystal
balls that hang and he said yeah, And so we
hang this thing in the in the room and the
lightning guy put a little inky light on it, you know,
and we just gave it a bit of a spin
and it just sent this light around the room and
Brando came under the set. He didn't say a word,
He just looked and then proceeded to do his act.
(14:25):
And it was like this all the time. This is
the kind of maniac stuff that was going on. But
is that I honestly don't like. I can't see that
it was such a worse, bad, terrible movie. I thought
it was kind of cool in a way, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I enjoy it, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I mean the the animal was the makeup and everything. God,
those guys they were wonderful. It wasn't there was no
CG or anything, but it was all done every day.
They had to put those guys in those suits and
there was real people inside them and everything. I thought
it was kind And it turns out to be the
worst film ever. Night Well, I don't know get this,
(15:08):
but anyway, it was. It was an eye lab working
on it. It was great.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, like I enjoy it now. I think I even
enjoy it more when I see the documentary. And I
was kind of intrigued by just like the clash of
all the different personalities and egos on set. Do you
think that that was kind of what it was? Maybe
on paper, it was going to be a great idea
to have Val Kilmer, who was supposedly notorious for being
(15:35):
a pain in the arts, to work with, and they
bringing like Brandew and all these different personalities together and
maybe they thought, oh, this will be fantastic. Everyone will
work together and it'll be great. And then it's just
like each person was like, well, okay, he's done that.
I'm going to do this. He's not coming out of
his trailer. I want fucking this, I want more money,
I want to do this.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
It just seemed like that that was what kind of
took everything, Like the fan just.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
What should be pointed out though, is that Richard Stanley,
the original director, got the job because he got Brando.
He somehow met up with Brando and gave him the
script and brand I said, yeah, I'll do it. So
of course then Richard Stanley got the gig because of
(16:26):
bringing Branda, and they thought, wow, I've got a great
picture for Malon Branda. And he was just his own enemy,
and he was he was a lovely man. I really
liked him a lot, but he was he wouldn't do
anything anyone wanted. He wouldn't go to meetings or anything
like that. Stayed in his house and got stoned and
(16:47):
quite a He was an eccentric guy that I loved him,
and I became the Stanp. I became the guy who
had to go out to his hand house and say, Richard, mate,
you've got the I mean now I don't want to
I don't have to go to all these meetings and
all that sort of thing. So it was a shame.
(17:08):
And then then he lost it when we started shooting.
He just couldn't handle the pace. So it got too
big because he's only done a couple of really small
films with small crews, certainly Your Face, with his monstrous
crew and you know, all his action, he couldn't handle it.
I think it was about the first or second day
of shooting they realized that we've better, We've got a
(17:30):
maniac kid, so we've got to shut this, shut it
down and get someone else. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It's funny as though, because I feel like Richard has
kind of always been himself. He's continued to be a
bit manic and a bit of centric and a bit
out there. I've listened to some reviews and stuff, and
I've spoke to people who've interviewed him, and they said, like, like,
really fun to kind of be around, but at the
same time, you can kind of tell like he's a
(17:55):
bit like all.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Over the place.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
When you first arrived. You know, we're working in the
North North Australian town of Cairns and he got you
got the plane and he kind of the studio and
he's wearing a like a panama hat and a white
white suit, carrying a cap bag, and immediately it was like, oh,
(18:27):
what do we got here? And then from then on
that's what we ate.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Did that Like it sounds like you, you know, you
said you had a fun time with that and you
you loved kind of what you guys created, So I
guess did you You didn't suffer as much from the
challenges doing your work in particular, other than, you know,
being dragged in between all these like, well this guy
doesn't want to do this and can you help me
with that? But as regards your actual job that you
were brought on set to do, you guys didn't have
(18:56):
many problems.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Now, well none really, because that was a job that
I was sort of give it can't blunch, you know,
like it was No one said, oh. There was only
one time that I was really pissed off with them,
and that was the I forget what they call the
folks that lived out in the out in the bush,
(19:20):
but I wanted it to look like a Second World
War air base had been there. And I designed all
these old planes and stuff like that, and and the
producer said, no, it can't it can't use old planes. No,
they must be modern jets. Well that doesn't make sense.
(19:41):
What would they be doing out in the middle of
the Pacific Ocean jet planes? No? No, no, So I
built built the old one. So I threw them in
as well. And we had to do these jet planes.
And I never could work out why anyone with half
a brain would want to do that. But anyway, they
with the producers and whatever they said had to go.
(20:03):
And that's that's how it went. But everything else, the
house and everything was like no one said boo. I
just went for it. And because we had a big
break in the middle waiting for a new director, the
gardens that we planted went night ship because of the
because of the climate up there, it's like it rains
and it's hot and humid. We'd put in plants that
(20:25):
would grow like that. Everything had been mad and it
looked like the house had been sitting there for years
and years and years, which was just fantastic. So it's good.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Does that happen often?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
You mentioned producers there, and I've had so many conversations
about on and off air where people mentioned executives, producers
and things like that, where they all of a sudden
come in with this great idea. It's like they wait
till all the hard work has done and then come
in and go, No, get rid of that. No, I
don't like this. Actually that thing you spent like two
(20:57):
months building scrap that I don't want that.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Does that happen? Often?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
For me? It didn't, but I have heard of it happening, Yes, definitely.
I've never really came across a clip to this one
Doctor Murret when you.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Go into a project like something else you worked almost
Queen of the Damned, and I kind of picked up
because I feel like, in a way, it's vastly different
from you look at like how the Island of Doctor
Morreau looks, and then something like Queen of the Damned,
and it's quite kind of gothic industrial. It's like modern
(21:36):
culture blended with like kind of ancient mythology. Do you
have to like, do you do a lot of research?
Like where do you kind of get your your head
in the game when it's too vastly different styles?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Well, I think you said it. I mean it is.
It's it's research just to get the peer right. There
was a set in in that film where I can't
remember the names of the people now, but they're in
a he was in a big double bed and someone
(22:15):
and I remember anyway, I had to sort of get
ideas for this particular set I designed, and I made
it like a big dome around big round room. The
word is hit. You have to do research, lots of research.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
How Yeah, I was just going to say, how in
depth does that research have to be? Because I feel like,
you know, if you look at a lot of your
back catalog and a lot of your work everything feels
lived in, it doesn't feel sometimes I find if I
if I watch a film, I can kind of really
spot that it's like a set or a something that's
(22:55):
been designed, versus I find like a lot of times
the worlds you've created, it seems like it's already there.
Like it's not like something that's been fabricated. It's just
there already. So how much research or how in depth
do you have to go to get to that level
where it doesn't seem like a manufactured.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Image.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
It's really nice that you'd say that about looking at
my stuff, because this one thing I really hate in
production design and films that are really designed, and that
is something that and a lot of designers do it.
They just do their wim of like to say this
is how I do it, you know, this is what
(23:37):
I want. My goal has always my whole career has
been for realism. To make it look like it's not designed.
That was my challenge was that all the time, to
make it not look designed. And if I ever felt
I was bending a bit towards towards it looking design,
(24:01):
I would fixed it. So it's nicely, have you decided because,
as I said, that's what I am. I used to
love doing.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, Like I feel like, you know, as a fan
and as an audience member, even at a very low level,
I think people can spot that now without even subconsciously,
you can kind of realize, which is why I think.
I read recently that the newest Ghostbusters movie, I didn't
(24:33):
I haven't seen it, but supposedly even there's shots where
they're like supposed to be walking down the street in
New York City and stuff, and the entire thing is
blue screened. So they built like three steps and everything
else behind that is just blue screen. And so many
people are coming back and saying, like I could feel
at the minute I looked at it on the screen,
I could just tell there was no there was not
(24:54):
an outside of it, Like it was just like a
wall with people in front of us. And it's just
I think I think people are on back to they
want that real kind of practical like realism, like something
to feel lived in.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Yes, yeah, I think with the Road Warrior, man makes
the Road Warrior going. That's going way back, But that
was something that that had that real kind of realness
about it, you know, the cars were kind of well,
they were real. You know, they weren't over designed. I
(25:28):
don't think they couldn't have been because we didn't have
enough money to over design them. But yeah, I mean
that's how That's what what I loved. Is to me,
that is design that is part of the designer's not
too the design should be not for the designer, but
(25:48):
it's for the film, you know. So if you can
pull it off that you're designing for the film, then
you're a designer. But if you want to pull something
off that it makes you looks something, you are a
design a bit not a good one for a film.
I don't think.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Yeah, yeah, you mentioned.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
A lot of it nowadaysers, you know, that's a good
way of putting it.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
You mentioned Joel's name a couple of times already, and
and I feel like there was definitely and I still
do think it is to a degree.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
But there was a.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Period there, especially for horror, where Australia and those places
became like a hotbed for it seemed like every production
wanted to show up there in some capacity, and obviously
Dark Castle when they started to do their thing, you know,
they were spent quite a bit of time out there.
How did that come about or how did you get
(26:49):
involved in in their projects?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Well, first of all, Joel Joel really likes Australian production teams,
and he also likes German production teams. It's wherever he's
making a film he likes. But that wasn't a bit.
That wasn't a bad thing at all. He loved us.
But there was a time when I was this. I
(27:15):
was working on a film entire. I wasn't on the
film in tailand I was there on a survey to
do a film called Bright Shining Light. And my wife
got a phone call in Australia and she called me
entire and said, there's a guy called Joel Silver. He
wants you to come and do this movie. And I said, well, honey,
(27:36):
I can't. I'm on this. I'm on this job. She said,
but it's amazing. He sent the script and I read it.
It's just it's just unbelievable. And I said, well, I
don't know. So I had to talk to Joel and
the film was what was it? One of Joel's best films.
(27:56):
I think he I think of it in a minute.
But anyway, I knocked it back and it's the first
time I'd ever spoken to Joel and he said, I
can't believe you not from this movie back. It's got
millions of dollars in the budget. And I said, well, look,
I made a promise to someone else that I'm going
(28:16):
to make this low budget film in Thailand. And the
Matrix was the Matrix, and so we got another Australian
guy and I didn't. I didn't do it, and I
whether I was better or I don't know, but the
film we made in Thailand, it was probably one of
(28:37):
the best experiences in my whole life. So personally, my
soul didn't lose out on anything. But all I lost
out on was designing the Matrix. But he came back
to me on his next one, ghost Ship, and because Owen,
the guy who had done the Matrix also and I
wasn't available, I did ghost Ship and then I started
(28:58):
a run of stuff with him. But going back to
the original question, yes, he did bring some horror stulf
to Australia and there was out of Australians who picked
up on the horror th too directors and we did
them here. But yeah, there was a bit of a
run for a while.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I actually have something here. Let me just grab this
because I want to just ask. Now, you may have
no idea, but just on the topic of ghost Ship,
you may have no idea about this. This was gifted
to me and I don't know if it's a genuine thing.
So this is one of two things that was gifted
to me a few years back. So supposedly it is
(29:37):
a section of the Jaguar Roadster, two pieces of the
Arctic Warrior from the filming miniature used in ghost Ship. Now,
I do not know that if any of these. Is
that something that happened a lot on productions where things
(29:58):
were cut into pieces and like sold off or given away.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
What is it? I can't I can't quite read what
that is.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
So it's pieces of the Jag, Yeah, sections of the
Jag and two sections of the Arctic Warrior the miniature.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
That was made of the ship.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah, yeah, is what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Now, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Like I said, it was gifted to me. It's signed
by somebody from show Reel Relics. I think they're an
Australian company, but I don't know.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I was always clorious. I was always curious.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Look, I just keep shying and saying everyone.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Well, that's like, that'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Look, I don't know if you can make that out there.
I have the ghost Ship art or tattooed on my
forearm here.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Oh wow, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So yeah, I'm a bit of a I'm a bit
of a fanatic when it comes to some of this stuff.
What was it like working on something like ghost Ship?
I know it was probably much different than what people envision,
but it seemed like such a a kind of a
big movie at the time, and a very like, I
(31:18):
don't know, like a big production, especially that opening scene
that's always in like the top you know, top five,
top ten opening scenes from a horror movie.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah. Great, Look, it was a big production. It was
a huge production, certainly probably at that stage, the biggest
thing I'd ever done. And we did have enough well
we didn't have enough money, but we seem to have
enough money to make it look something great. Challenges unbelievable
(31:49):
challenges to make this ship that the old ship and
the new ship, and I don't know, we just had
a I had a fantastic crew of painters and was
and everything, and I think we pulled something off again.
What was happening there was the director was another first
(32:09):
time director. I think Steve did a pretty good job,
but I don't know. It could have been better. But
it's happened to a lot of Joel's films.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
They just.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Everything was there, except he used his first time directors
and they didn't seem to just and and this Blake
was he was an one of these directors who would
call what he would think and I'd have to throw
and bend it around to what I would think because
I was fighting for this because I had very firm ideas.
And again that's another another time of keeping things in
(32:46):
the realism look and don't make it look designed. That
was a struggle. That was a struggle to get that
and I think, I really think we did pull that off.
That was an enormous film. That was you know, the
Bow of the We built that and just the whole
big Bear page up in Brisbane and towed it down
(33:08):
to the Gold Coast and shot on the on the
waters on the Gold Coast.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Which is just yeah, it's just crazy when you think
about it. And I think that's why some of this
stuff sticks around out or because I feel like the
audience and the fans really appreciate like that degree of
realism because it's it's it's quite easy to see nowadays. Look,
I still like certain movies nowadays, but sometimes I hate
when I sit down to watch something and I know
(33:35):
everything on screen is computer generated.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
It's just painful.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Yes, yeah, because you know that the Arctic Warrior coming
up to the bow of it and shining the lights up.
That's that was a sick you know, it was amazing.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
And then also the the like the ballroom dancing set
where the wire cats anyone in half that that too.
That was this amazing set that we built out in
the middle of the of the woods and had to
change it from being that beautiful look and then we
had like a week or something to turn it into
the rusted Hulk, and it.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Just looks so fantastic even now, like it's what twenty.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Two three years later.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and it's it still looks
fantastic when you look at those scenes. Yes, another one
I wanted to ask you about as well, which I
don't know if you can make out. On this side
of me, there's a little guy here in the background,
which is Vincent Sinclair from a House of Wax. I
(34:47):
actually had that peace commissioned. It's the villain from House
of Wax.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Oh what right? Yes?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
And how is it working on that? Because there's another movie. Look,
I know others probably it's like you said, there's a
lot of things I look at and I go, well,
he really had the bones of something that could have
been absolutely amazing, but it just fell short on certain things.
But as regards the town, the sets, the design, what
(35:14):
was that like, because that to me is one of
the like I feel like underappreciated things run like you
do not realize like the amount of effort and care
that must have went into building all that and design
and that.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
How was that experience?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Well? Good and bad? The bad bit was. And this
was a time when we were talking before about producers
getting ideas, and Joel was always one for all these films.
He would always have some key idea that you must,
you have to do this, you have to do that.
(35:51):
So for the town, I did some drawings for him
and sent them over to the States and he said.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
No, that's terrible.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
It's just like you see all the time. I wanted
to I'll send you some references of what I wanted
to look like. Anyway, he sent me this book about
a city in North Africa and it was I just
forget the name of it, ben not ben Ghazy. It
might have been ben Ghazi or something like that. Anyway,
(36:21):
it was a town that the Italians built in the
thirties and it was fabulous deco. It was like a
whole deco city, and he said, I wanted to look
like this, and I thought it's ridiculous. Well do an
deco city in the middle of Louisiana, you know, kind
(36:41):
of it didn't make sense. But anyway, that's what he wanted.
So that's how we had to design the town. But
what had to be careful of here was to sort
of keep some of the some of that old town
look with his ben Ghazi look, and we did that well.
(37:03):
In the end, I think it left the reality up
behind it. In my opinion, you know, that the what
I always aim for. But it still was kind of
not too over designed to look like what he really wanted.
We went both sides went and lost, you know what
(37:23):
I mean. Yeah, but it was quite a feat. You know.
We built the whole goddamn town, you know, for a
million bucks.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, which is which is kind of mad when you
think about it, like, how does how does the I
don't know, like how does that even start to think?
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Like that?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
You can look at the location and Okay, there's basically
nothing here, and then however, long later you've built like
a ghost town essentially.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Yeah, from scratch, Like.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, well that's that's what designing and filmmaking is, you know,
I mean.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
It's that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah. That was also done in Queensland with pretty much
the same crew as ghost Ship, so great Addison's you know, fantastic.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yeah, did that?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Like there was was it a little bit of a
run there with the same people like there was ghost Ship?
I think there was Gothica, There was House of Wax.
Were was it all you guys? Kind of the same
people coming back?
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Uh yeah, a lot of them? Yeah, yes, yeah yeah,
because at that stage the Queensland crews were limited, so
you know, you got pretty much the same people.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Another thing that I think a lot of people will
probably notice about you, and maybe most know you for
is The Walking Dead. I mean, to work on something
like that, had you any idea that it would become
what it was?
Speaker 4 (39:03):
What it is?
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Uh huh? Now, I didn't think it would that a
lot of other title did and I did.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, Like I mean that shot to the stratosphere. I
spend a good bit of time in Orlando every year,
and I do there like Halloween, Harnight's event and University
studios and things like that. And I remember one of
the first years that I spent like two or three
weeks there, the entire event for Halloween was based on
(39:38):
The Walking Dead. And I don't know if you if
you know that or you're familiar with that, but like
the entire park was basically done with different sets and
different things from from the show, different scenes from different seasons. No, yeah,
like that's got to be crazy if you, right, as
somebody who who's behind a lot of the looks and
(40:01):
a lot of the designs, to see how much that's
in the mainstream now, I feel like the Walking Dad
has become like this staple of like if you're a fan,
if you're not a fan, if you're young, if you're old,
and you say the Walking Dad, pretty much everybody has
an idea of what it is.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Yes, is that.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
That's got to be gratifying, right to know that, like
you know, you were involved in a lot of how
this looks and how people perceive this thing.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
You're you're kind of the one behind it.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yes, yeah, I mean of course, and of course I
had the the great thing of my wife was the
sick sid decorator. So we would we were just leave
and talk with walking a whole life for six years.
But yeah, no, very good to find you know that
(40:53):
seventy million people every week would watch the show that
you worked on and you designed. Yeah, it's quite a
bus really is it?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Like you know, personally like behind the professional aspect. Obviously,
I know you guys are professionals, so it's not like
you sit there and go, oh, you know, how great
are we? But it's got to be kind of, you know,
bizarre from a from a personal standpoint to sit down
and look at that and go, yeah, like we were.
I remember, you know when we designed that. I remember
(41:21):
when we we dressed that. I remember when we brought
this in And now you're looking at it on TV
and like you said, you know, there's the bones of
twenty million people tuning in every week.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Yes, but you also I do think God would or
not made that day? Was what find it? To get
that there? You know?
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
What was the over experience, like for working on that show,
because you're done a lot of that, So what was
the overall experience? And I guess the takeaway I didn't
know that your wife had also worked as the set
restaurant as well, So that's got to be, like, I guess,
kind of an added bonus to.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah. Oh yeah, of course. I mean it's it's wonderful. Yeah,
I guess it is.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yes, I was going to say, that's like a double
edged sword there.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Oh no, I was trying to think about it. You know,
after a while you just go, oh, you're all seventy
million people tuned into something we did. This is this
is what we do and we must be doing it well,
you know it's it's it's nice to talk about it
when people say, oh, you weren't on the Walking did Yeah,
yeah we did. But not to let it get yeah
(42:36):
see too much. You know what I mean, it's you
you know that well, if we did this good, we
must be sort of good at it. So just take
it that way, but not let it go to your head.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
And yeah, we're the working dead people.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Is that a lot of you know, how you kind
of progress through your career in a sense that like
when the work is good production see that. You know
you've done all that work on The Walking Dead, all
the other projects we mentioned, not to mention the countless
projects that we there's not enough time in the day
to talk about. Really, is that kind of the Is
(43:17):
the word of mouth in the industry been the best
thing for you? As in, you know, people see what
you're really doing and go, yeah, I want that guy.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Yes, I think so. Yeah. I think probably someone would
seek you out because of what you do. And I
guess I always used to say, you know, I get
a script and there's not much horror in this, I
guess I won't be doing it because that's they want me.
(43:48):
So that particular thing, you know, because of what you.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
Do, does that.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
You No, No, No, I wouldn't. I don't think I
wouldn't want anything any other way. I wouldn't have. You know,
I missed out on well, I don't know what I
missed out. I just got overlooked, as you do. I'm
working on really large budget films. I didn't really do
(44:16):
anything that had tons of CG or anything like that.
I don't regret that at all. I had a great
life doing what I do. In fact, I'll tell you
what is a blast, and that is still and I
must say I live in the States now. Yeah, whenever
(44:39):
someone finds out I've worked on Mad Max that they go, god,
really and I kind of think, gee, you know people,
so they're kind in a way. Two, give you some
cudos for what you did so long ago. So that
that's a blast. Yeah, yeah, that makes you cool.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
Do you have any.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Favorite movies or maybe movies that you personally revisit more
than others, like anything that sticks out? No, not really,
do you watch you watch a lot of movies or
do you get a chance to or is it just
something that you don't really doesn't really cross your mind.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Oh, I see gazing in movies every night on the box,
you know, and boy there's some crack, but uh huh.
I don't really go back and watch reruns or you know,
if I've seen it, I've seen it. It's kind of like, yeah,
something like that, Oh, let's watch that say it.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
But then if you do happen to watch one and
you go, oh, I forgot that that was I'm glad
we watched this again.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
What do you like to do when your in your downtime?
I suppose you know, do you struggle to turn off
that creative side or do you have something that's completely
I think a lot of people assume that. You know,
if you work in a creative industry like this, your
entire life surrounds that. But do you have anything else
that you like to do to just completely just switch
(46:15):
off and get away from that.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Uh? Yes, Well, as I've retired. So it took COVID
and to an actor's strike and teams to strike and
someone else's strike. I remember what ruined the whole industry.
(46:39):
So I'm out of here. I can't take this anymore.
And it was getting getting crazy, people getting at themselves,
and it was like, this is bullshit. So I got that.
I've retired. So to answer your question, yes, I'm and
I probably always have been creative in the gardening side
of things, Yeah, creating, creating gardens. I at the moment
(47:05):
have a very huge vegetable garden that looks champion. So
I've gone back to something that I did intermittently between films.
I used to do that. I didn't just finish a
film and go onto another film. A lot of the
time it was a battle, you know, you had to
finish the film and like, oh, when's the next one coming?
You know, you might wait six months, so you had
(47:26):
to do something in those six months. So I would
do landscaping or you know, just gardening and stuff. So
it's kind of a it's a bit of a jump
between one and the other. But probably people don't notice
in a lot of the films that I have done,
where you might see a garden that would have been
I've designed into it. And with my greens people, we
(47:49):
always I always used to wanted to look real again,
and I like we were talking before, and especially on
The Walking Dead, I had a greens lady. She was fabulous.
In the Gile sit the Big Gile, we build a
couple of gardens and we didn't just put in plastic
flowers and stuff. I grew real vegetables and real plants.
(48:12):
And yeah, so that was that's the other interest.
Speaker 4 (48:15):
Anyway, that's a that's kind of a unique one.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
I like that becoming a big thing actually over here
over the last couple of years, I've noticed I don't
know if it's just a trend or something, but I
see an awful lot of people starting to take time
and and and spending time in the garden and like
tending to the garden and doing that. And a lot
of younger people, not just I think a lot of
(48:38):
people that assume, oh, when you get older, that's what
you do. A lot of like young young young people
seem to be really into it. I don't know if
it's something that's like, I don't know, some sort of
a trend or something, but I've definitely seen an optic
in younger people having an interest in garden, which is
which is kind of nice because it's quite relaxing.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Yeah, well, yeah, and I mean especially if you're growing food.
And I think that's maybe where the young people think
comes in a bit. It's like, well, you know, like
the way the world's going on, and maybe we should
be learning how to grow a lettuce or something or
or or something, or learn a bit about how, you know,
how the world operates, how does a tree grow, how
(49:17):
do things grow? You know, what the roots do in
the soil and all that. It's it's not just sticking
something in the ground hoping it grows. It's learning about
the whole biology of it. That's that's wonderful and it's
it's very it's good for yourself I think, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
I have a final question before you let you go.
I feel like you've done, you know, a lot of
horror work, a lot of kind of horror adjacent work.
You know, even with like you said, like stuff like
Mad Max. Why that's not hard, there's you know, there's
some horrific elements to it. Some of the characters are
quite scary and unsettling. What was it you know outside
(49:59):
of Ourviously people see how good your work is and
they want you for those kinds of projects. But what
was it about you know, that that kind of genre
or you know, type of movie that continually brought you
back to it?
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Uh, I don't quite get it? What was it?
Speaker 4 (50:17):
Yeah? Like, what what was it about?
Speaker 2 (50:19):
I don't know if it's I don't know if I
want to say horror, because there's other things and other
elements as well to movies that you've done that I
would say are horror adjacent. But you know, outside of
obviously being offered or being contacted about coming onto the projects,
what was it about that particular style or genre of
film that kind of brought you back to that time
(50:41):
and time again?
Speaker 4 (50:41):
What did you enjoy about it?
Speaker 3 (50:44):
Gee? I don't know, why really, maybe it was. It
was it because I got the realism right side of
it right or something, and I thought, well, did that, well,
let's maybe get let's see if you'll do this for us.
You know, it's of the same genre, and that's probably
(51:05):
why I never got anything with beauty or something like
that in it.
Speaker 4 (51:13):
I feel.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
It's definitely one of the more difficult genres, I think
personally from the outside to probably succeed in, because each
project in each world is so different. You know, you
could say, oh, it's horror, it's whatever, but like if
you look at ten horror movies, like, they're so different
from each other. If you look at ten sub genres
of horror, they're so different. If you even look at
(51:37):
the Walk and Dead from start to finish, it's so
different in different periods, and it really feels like we're
in another place, in another kind of timeline as it progresses,
which I think says a lot about your work, and
I think it's probably one of the more difficult places
to achieve that.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
Yes, yes, you're right, and that's because it's something we
don't know we're making. We can't do any research on
this because it's something that hasn't happened yet, so you've
got to you've got to guess work or I guess
and some sort of mad imagination of what it could be.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Yeah, Grim, it's been a it's been a pleasure to
chat with you on the show from you from from
a personal standpoint, not not even anything to do with
the actual show itself, just from a personal standpoint because
I've adm urge your work for a long time. Thank
you and all the projects you've worked on. I wish
all the best. I would love to stay in touch
(52:45):
over time if that's stable, and yeah, maybe we can
do this again.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
At some point, certainly, I'd love to.
Speaker 4 (52:52):
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
Thanks Grim, Okay, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Class Horrorcast. Stop
the CHC podcast at classharrorcast dot com at first Class Horror,
on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, or on Twitter at Class
Underscore Horror. The CHC podcast is hosted and produced by
Aaron Doyle and is an fcch production.
You can run, but you can't hide from the class
hard cast hunting you from the Emerald Isle. Your host,
Aaron Doyle takes you on a journey to the depths
of horror with exclusive interviews, horror news, reviews, and more.
Tickets Please you were about you under the theater of
the mad Enjoy the.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Show program, Welcome to the show. Pleasure to have you on.
How are you doing today? I'm good, yep good, Yeah,
you're doing good.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Yeah good.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I always like to go back to the start when
I when I talk to people, do you remember your
first experience with the horror genre in particular, like as
a fan as an audience member?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Uh? Not really, No, No, I think I don't. My
first horror stuff was working with Joel.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Was that just something that then you got into so like,
growing up you weren't necessarily a fan of of some
of that stuff.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I can't really say I was, you know, a real
fan of horror. You know, I did whatever whatever movies
sort of came my way. I jumped into for Boots
and all. Yeah, I mean Mad Max was I guess
(01:24):
you could say there was some horrible scenes. I may
have got a bit of a taste of it.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Then you know, you worked on Mad Max two Beyond Thunderdome.
Speaker 4 (01:37):
What was that experience like?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
And I suppose now looking back, did you have any
idea at the time you know how much those those
movies would stand the test of time.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
No, no idea at all, But it was a very
exciting time for me. I mean, when I first read
the script of Next Too, I was like over the
moon because it was probably everything that I really love,
like cars and designing weird stuff and everything which wasn't
(02:12):
really related to horror, And the making of that film
was like something I'll never forget. I mean, it was
just a blast, but certainly had no idea that it
would go on to do what it was.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Do you think You know, a lot of people say
to me when they're involved in different projects that obviously,
you know, the script has to be there, the story
has to be there, all these things have to come together.
But I oftentimes feel like from talking to people behind
the scenes that if the passion and the energy isn't
there from everybody involved, that seems to be a real
(02:48):
key in like making these things stick around.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Oh differitely, oh differently, And that was one film that
Oh the passion was there with one hundred percent because
also it was an era of the Australian film industry
when we were just sort of kicking off again, if
you like. So just about anything we did, everybody put
(03:13):
their passion and love into, but made Mix stood out,
I think, and the challenge of having very very low
budget and making it all come together for what we
had was you know, it was all part of that
with part of that patient really.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
You know, on on a on a franchise like that,
when when you're tasked with that job. Was that difficult
having to come up with I think a lot of
the things we see now visually when we look back
at those movies, you know, we have as an audience
member have no concept as to maybe the difficulties of
design and some of that stuff of how things are
going to look.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
Was that a difficult thing? Yes?
Speaker 3 (03:59):
And no, uh it was. Look, it was difficult in
the fact that what you had in your mind that
you would really really love to do, you couldn't do
because we only had three million dollars to do the
whole film. That was the budget, So we had to
make do with with him with a little money we had.
So that was the That was the challenge.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
For for people who maybe don't know. And I feel like,
you know, a lot of people now were getting more
interested in a lot of behind the scenes under different
roles and.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
What people do.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
What what is the role of I suppose you've done
several things, production designer, you've done art director.
Speaker 4 (04:43):
What what exactly? Yeah? Like what what?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
What exactly is the role of let's say a production
designer for example?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Well, I mean the role is basically to put together
a look, an overall look of the of the whole
film from you know, I mean there are different, very
different calls from different producers or whatever at times, and
the leeway they give you some designers, I know, just
(05:16):
you won't probably do anything if they can't say what
the color should be or you know, lots of different factors.
But yeah, I mean a production designer is the look
of the movie. It's the design of the film, the sets,
the vehicles in some cases, so it's a pretty major role.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
When does that start for you? Like what stage in
the production? Like I think a lot of people assume,
you know, you just show up on the first day
of shooting and you're just kind of like putting stuff
in the background and you have this truck full of
thought that you just kind of put there. But like,
at what stage in the development do you have to
start thinking about all this stuff and having conversations with
either the director or whoever.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Probably the first person well, I mean, I'm not sure
if they talk to the people about music or anything.
I'm sure that comes in post production. But if a
producer is getting a movie together, first of all, they've
got to get a director, and then the director really
then wants to see the designer first, because it's probably
(06:25):
not just the design of the film and what you
may be drawing up and designing and putting down on
paper and what you're going to make, but it's locations
as well, so you know, you've got to decide where
you're going to make the film and everything. So a
designer meets with the director and say, second on the ground,
I would say.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
How difficult is this to, you know, to pull off
a job like that in the sense of, you know,
we often hear times about directors and they have a
certain style, they have a certain look, So I don't know,
let's say David Lynch, for example, people kind of feel like,
you know, he has a particular style that we see
(07:08):
across as movies that you can kind of draw lines,
whereas I feel like, you know, a job is important
of yours it's And when I say just from from
my outside perspective, not a lack of style, I don't
mean that as in no skill. I mean as in
you kind of have to have every style and every
vision and every because all these projects can be so
(07:30):
vastly different that you can't necessarily have like a, well,
this is how I make it look and just use
that on every movie.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
You have to have everything in your toolbox correct.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Yeah, which which I think brings brings us to the
point that a designer has to have a a pretty
damn good imagination because you have to move from you know,
from horror to the love or whatever it might be.
And also you have to not put up with, but
(08:00):
you have to go with. If the director has a
certain vision, then you've got to sort of fit your
thinking into his vision or you've got to be able
to sway him around how you would really like it
to be. And I've been caught up with some directors
who say, hey, Grace, SIT's up to you. Look, let's
go for it, and others that might go, oh, no,
(08:21):
I want to have it like this, you know this,
which then it becomes a bit difficult. So you've got
to go out of your your safe home feeling into
in the days. So it's trick.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yeah, I would imagine, And a few people have said
to me, not in the same in the same role,
but in you know, in differing roles.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
You know, the.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Idea of having having that skill to be able to
make the other person think it's their idea. Maybe if
you need something change that you can be like if
you can plan and put it on them and go, oh,
that was a great idea you came up with.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
Yeah. Yeah, But I mean if if you, for instance,
you say you're working with someone like, as you said before,
David Lynch, well you know you'd be a fool not
to go with what he what with what he would want,
because you respect him, you know what he does, you
know you love him. He's great. Oh great, David, that's
a great idea. I will make it look exactly how
(09:19):
you want it. But unfortunately I didn't get to really
work with anyone like David Lynch, and a lot of
the time I was working with first time directors who
thought they were David Lynch and and you know, they
would stick to what they thought was a great idea,
which I thought was shite. So you know, you have
(09:43):
you have those problems and and Joel did I must
put on some first time directors that weren't too good.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, I've had that many times, to be honest. Yeah,
you also worked on something that I'm assuming that you've
been asked about this before. When you mentioned, you know,
maybe having issues and things like that, the Island.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Of Doctor Morreau, I knew you were going to say.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah the minute you mentioned like trouble productions and stuff,
I feel like that's it's at top. But I think
that a lot of people still don't know, even though
we got the documentary a couple of years back about
it and it kind of started the circulating again, there's
a lot of people out there, I think that don't
realize how troubled the production was on that. How much
(10:36):
of that were you exposed to, because just from the documentary,
which I'm sure is skewed a certain way, it just
seemed absolute like just mayhem.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
It was. It really was, but it had a long history.
I mean I think I was on it for a
better year. Look. To be honest with you, I love
working on that movie. I love the cha us and
and I especially love what what we did as an
art department in the creation of the the house and
(11:09):
everything on the island. So I loved it. But it
got mad. Frankenheimer hated Kilmer, Kilma, didn't like anyone. Uh
uh what God his name? Now? The other guy?
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Uh, how do I not remember the name?
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Sorry? Brand Yes, brand So it was a constant, like
you know, it was a fight. And Frankenheimer he didn't
really care anyway, because you know, he was just brought
in as a second director and he was going to
get paid a lot of money, I would presume to
(12:05):
try and get it together, which he kind of didn't
do well. In fact, now that's wrong. He did. He
did do it, but it was with a lot of
a lot of difficulty. And one of the things I
was very proud of on that film was well, there
was instance one day when Brando wouldn't come out of
(12:25):
his trailer and frank and him is going, what's going on?
What's going on? You know? And I was called to
his trailer with Frankenheimer. When we went to his trailer
and he's going, well, so what's wrong with it? Come on,
tell me what I'm going about to shoot this? And
he said there's no movement. He meant in the set,
(12:47):
there was no movement. And I've looked at you know,
I looked at him. What do you mean? He said,
there's just no movement in the set. And I got
to tell you, it's one of the nicest sets I've
ever walked on. That's pretty good from him, and I
should should I tell you this? But anyway, I was
sitting opposite him, and he was wearing a pair of
(13:10):
like pajamas shorts and which were very wide and open.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Where this is going?
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Can I? But anyway, I'm looking at him, but I
couldn't help glancing down, and he's nuts for hanging out. Anyway,
this went on and we went outside and Frankenheimer said, Okay,
get moving, get some blinds in there, get wind blowing
through the doors, and then all that. And he had
(13:41):
said Brando had said, even just a crystal ball. So
I had to do all the stuff that the director.
And this is another thing about designing and directing. I
did not want to have curtains in the damn house.
I did not want wind and coming through the door.
But anyway, we did that. I went to the props guy,
(14:02):
I said, have you got one of those little crystal
balls that hang and he said yeah, And so we
hang this thing in the in the room and the
lightning guy put a little inky light on it, you know,
and we just gave it a bit of a spin
and it just sent this light around the room and
Brando came under the set. He didn't say a word,
He just looked and then proceeded to do his act.
(14:25):
And it was like this all the time. This is
the kind of maniac stuff that was going on. But
is that I honestly don't like. I can't see that
it was such a worse, bad, terrible movie. I thought
it was kind of cool in a way, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (14:45):
I enjoy it, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I mean the the animal was the makeup and everything. God,
those guys they were wonderful. It wasn't there was no
CG or anything, but it was all done every day.
They had to put those guys in those suits and
there was real people inside them and everything. I thought
it was kind And it turns out to be the
worst film ever. Night Well, I don't know get this,
(15:08):
but anyway, it was. It was an eye lab working
on it. It was great.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, like I enjoy it now. I think I even
enjoy it more when I see the documentary. And I
was kind of intrigued by just like the clash of
all the different personalities and egos on set. Do you
think that that was kind of what it was? Maybe
on paper, it was going to be a great idea
to have Val Kilmer, who was supposedly notorious for being
(15:35):
a pain in the arts, to work with, and they
bringing like Brandew and all these different personalities together and
maybe they thought, oh, this will be fantastic. Everyone will
work together and it'll be great. And then it's just
like each person was like, well, okay, he's done that.
I'm going to do this. He's not coming out of
his trailer. I want fucking this, I want more money,
I want to do this.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
It just seemed like that that was what kind of
took everything, Like the fan just.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
What should be pointed out though, is that Richard Stanley,
the original director, got the job because he got Brando.
He somehow met up with Brando and gave him the
script and brand I said, yeah, I'll do it. So
of course then Richard Stanley got the gig because of
(16:26):
bringing Branda, and they thought, wow, I've got a great
picture for Malon Branda. And he was just his own enemy,
and he was he was a lovely man. I really
liked him a lot, but he was he wouldn't do
anything anyone wanted. He wouldn't go to meetings or anything
like that. Stayed in his house and got stoned and
(16:47):
quite a He was an eccentric guy that I loved him,
and I became the Stanp. I became the guy who
had to go out to his hand house and say, Richard, mate,
you've got the I mean now I don't want to
I don't have to go to all these meetings and
all that sort of thing. So it was a shame.
(17:08):
And then then he lost it when we started shooting.
He just couldn't handle the pace. So it got too
big because he's only done a couple of really small
films with small crews, certainly Your Face, with his monstrous
crew and you know, all his action, he couldn't handle it.
I think it was about the first or second day
of shooting they realized that we've better, We've got a
(17:30):
maniac kid, so we've got to shut this, shut it
down and get someone else. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
It's funny as though, because I feel like Richard has
kind of always been himself. He's continued to be a
bit manic and a bit of centric and a bit
out there. I've listened to some reviews and stuff, and
I've spoke to people who've interviewed him, and they said, like, like,
really fun to kind of be around, but at the
same time, you can kind of tell like he's a
(17:55):
bit like all.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Over the place.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which, yeah, it's.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
When you first arrived. You know, we're working in the
North North Australian town of Cairns and he got you
got the plane and he kind of the studio and
he's wearing a like a panama hat and a white
white suit, carrying a cap bag, and immediately it was like, oh,
(18:27):
what do we got here? And then from then on
that's what we ate.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
Did that Like it sounds like you, you know, you
said you had a fun time with that and you
you loved kind of what you guys created, So I
guess did you You didn't suffer as much from the
challenges doing your work in particular, other than, you know,
being dragged in between all these like, well this guy
doesn't want to do this and can you help me
with that? But as regards your actual job that you
were brought on set to do, you guys didn't have
(18:56):
many problems.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Now, well none really, because that was a job that
I was sort of give it can't blunch, you know,
like it was No one said, oh. There was only
one time that I was really pissed off with them,
and that was the I forget what they call the
folks that lived out in the out in the bush,
(19:20):
but I wanted it to look like a Second World
War air base had been there. And I designed all
these old planes and stuff like that, and and the
producer said, no, it can't it can't use old planes. No,
they must be modern jets. Well that doesn't make sense.
(19:41):
What would they be doing out in the middle of
the Pacific Ocean jet planes? No? No, no, So I
built built the old one. So I threw them in
as well. And we had to do these jet planes.
And I never could work out why anyone with half
a brain would want to do that. But anyway, they
with the producers and whatever they said had to go.
(20:03):
And that's that's how it went. But everything else, the
house and everything was like no one said boo. I
just went for it. And because we had a big
break in the middle waiting for a new director, the
gardens that we planted went night ship because of the
because of the climate up there, it's like it rains
and it's hot and humid. We'd put in plants that
(20:25):
would grow like that. Everything had been mad and it
looked like the house had been sitting there for years
and years and years, which was just fantastic. So it's good.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
Does that happen often?
Speaker 2 (20:37):
You mentioned producers there, and I've had so many conversations
about on and off air where people mentioned executives, producers
and things like that, where they all of a sudden
come in with this great idea. It's like they wait
till all the hard work has done and then come
in and go, No, get rid of that. No, I
don't like this. Actually that thing you spent like two
(20:57):
months building scrap that I don't want that.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Does that happen? Often?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
For me? It didn't, but I have heard of it happening, Yes, definitely.
I've never really came across a clip to this one
Doctor Murret when you.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Go into a project like something else you worked almost
Queen of the Damned, and I kind of picked up
because I feel like, in a way, it's vastly different
from you look at like how the Island of Doctor
Morreau looks, and then something like Queen of the Damned,
and it's quite kind of gothic industrial. It's like modern
(21:36):
culture blended with like kind of ancient mythology. Do you
have to like, do you do a lot of research?
Like where do you kind of get your your head
in the game when it's too vastly different styles?
Speaker 3 (21:54):
Well, I think you said it. I mean it is.
It's it's research just to get the peer right. There
was a set in in that film where I can't
remember the names of the people now, but they're in
a he was in a big double bed and someone
(22:15):
and I remember anyway, I had to sort of get
ideas for this particular set I designed, and I made
it like a big dome around big round room. The
word is hit. You have to do research, lots of research.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
How Yeah, I was just going to say, how in
depth does that research have to be? Because I feel like,
you know, if you look at a lot of your
back catalog and a lot of your work everything feels
lived in, it doesn't feel sometimes I find if I
if I watch a film, I can kind of really
spot that it's like a set or a something that's
(22:55):
been designed, versus I find like a lot of times
the worlds you've created, it seems like it's already there.
Like it's not like something that's been fabricated. It's just
there already. So how much research or how in depth
do you have to go to get to that level
where it doesn't seem like a manufactured.
Speaker 4 (23:14):
Image.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
It's really nice that you'd say that about looking at
my stuff, because this one thing I really hate in
production design and films that are really designed, and that
is something that and a lot of designers do it.
They just do their wim of like to say this
is how I do it, you know, this is what
(23:37):
I want. My goal has always my whole career has
been for realism. To make it look like it's not designed.
That was my challenge was that all the time, to
make it not look designed. And if I ever felt
I was bending a bit towards towards it looking design,
(24:01):
I would fixed it. So it's nicely, have you decided because,
as I said, that's what I am. I used to
love doing.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yeah, Like I feel like, you know, as a fan
and as an audience member, even at a very low level,
I think people can spot that now without even subconsciously,
you can kind of realize, which is why I think.
I read recently that the newest Ghostbusters movie, I didn't
(24:33):
I haven't seen it, but supposedly even there's shots where
they're like supposed to be walking down the street in
New York City and stuff, and the entire thing is
blue screened. So they built like three steps and everything
else behind that is just blue screen. And so many
people are coming back and saying, like I could feel
at the minute I looked at it on the screen,
I could just tell there was no there was not
(24:54):
an outside of it, Like it was just like a
wall with people in front of us. And it's just
I think I think people are on back to they
want that real kind of practical like realism, like something
to feel lived in.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Yes, yeah, I think with the Road Warrior, man makes
the Road Warrior going. That's going way back, But that
was something that that had that real kind of realness
about it, you know, the cars were kind of well,
they were real. You know, they weren't over designed. I
(25:28):
don't think they couldn't have been because we didn't have
enough money to over design them. But yeah, I mean
that's how That's what what I loved. Is to me,
that is design that is part of the designer's not
too the design should be not for the designer, but
(25:48):
it's for the film, you know. So if you can
pull it off that you're designing for the film, then
you're a designer. But if you want to pull something
off that it makes you looks something, you are a
design a bit not a good one for a film.
I don't think.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Yeah, yeah, you mentioned.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
A lot of it nowadaysers, you know, that's a good
way of putting it.
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
You mentioned Joel's name a couple of times already, and
and I feel like there was definitely and I still
do think it is to a degree.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
But there was a.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Period there, especially for horror, where Australia and those places
became like a hotbed for it seemed like every production
wanted to show up there in some capacity, and obviously
Dark Castle when they started to do their thing, you know,
they were spent quite a bit of time out there.
How did that come about or how did you get
(26:49):
involved in in their projects?
Speaker 3 (26:52):
Well, first of all, Joel Joel really likes Australian production teams,
and he also likes German production teams. It's wherever he's
making a film he likes. But that wasn't a bit.
That wasn't a bad thing at all. He loved us.
But there was a time when I was this. I
(27:15):
was working on a film entire. I wasn't on the
film in tailand I was there on a survey to
do a film called Bright Shining Light. And my wife
got a phone call in Australia and she called me
entire and said, there's a guy called Joel Silver. He
wants you to come and do this movie. And I said, well, honey,
(27:36):
I can't. I'm on this. I'm on this job. She said,
but it's amazing. He sent the script and I read it.
It's just it's just unbelievable. And I said, well, I
don't know. So I had to talk to Joel and
the film was what was it? One of Joel's best films.
(27:56):
I think he I think of it in a minute.
But anyway, I knocked it back and it's the first
time I'd ever spoken to Joel and he said, I
can't believe you not from this movie back. It's got
millions of dollars in the budget. And I said, well, look,
I made a promise to someone else that I'm going
(28:16):
to make this low budget film in Thailand. And the
Matrix was the Matrix, and so we got another Australian
guy and I didn't. I didn't do it, and I
whether I was better or I don't know, but the
film we made in Thailand, it was probably one of
(28:37):
the best experiences in my whole life. So personally, my
soul didn't lose out on anything. But all I lost
out on was designing the Matrix. But he came back
to me on his next one, ghost Ship, and because Owen,
the guy who had done the Matrix also and I
wasn't available, I did ghost Ship and then I started
(28:58):
a run of stuff with him. But going back to
the original question, yes, he did bring some horror stulf
to Australia and there was out of Australians who picked
up on the horror th too directors and we did
them here. But yeah, there was a bit of a
run for a while.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
I actually have something here. Let me just grab this
because I want to just ask. Now, you may have
no idea, but just on the topic of ghost Ship,
you may have no idea about this. This was gifted
to me and I don't know if it's a genuine thing.
So this is one of two things that was gifted
to me a few years back. So supposedly it is
(29:37):
a section of the Jaguar Roadster, two pieces of the
Arctic Warrior from the filming miniature used in ghost Ship. Now,
I do not know that if any of these. Is
that something that happened a lot on productions where things
(29:58):
were cut into pieces and like sold off or given away.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
What is it? I can't I can't quite read what
that is.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
So it's pieces of the Jag, Yeah, sections of the
Jag and two sections of the Arctic Warrior the miniature.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
That was made of the ship.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Yeah, yeah, is what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Now, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Like I said, it was gifted to me. It's signed
by somebody from show Reel Relics. I think they're an
Australian company, but I don't know.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
I was always clorious. I was always curious.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Look, I just keep shying and saying everyone.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
Well, that's like, that'll tell you.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Look, I don't know if you can make that out there.
I have the ghost Ship art or tattooed on my
forearm here.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
Oh wow, that's cool.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So yeah, I'm a bit of a I'm a bit
of a fanatic when it comes to some of this stuff.
What was it like working on something like ghost Ship?
I know it was probably much different than what people envision,
but it seemed like such a a kind of a
big movie at the time, and a very like, I
(31:18):
don't know, like a big production, especially that opening scene
that's always in like the top you know, top five,
top ten opening scenes from a horror movie.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Yeah. Great, Look, it was a big production. It was
a huge production, certainly probably at that stage, the biggest
thing I'd ever done. And we did have enough well
we didn't have enough money, but we seem to have
enough money to make it look something great. Challenges unbelievable
(31:49):
challenges to make this ship that the old ship and
the new ship, and I don't know, we just had
a I had a fantastic crew of painters and was
and everything, and I think we pulled something off again.
What was happening there was the director was another first
(32:09):
time director. I think Steve did a pretty good job,
but I don't know. It could have been better. But
it's happened to a lot of Joel's films.
Speaker 4 (32:20):
They just.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
Everything was there, except he used his first time directors
and they didn't seem to just and and this Blake
was he was an one of these directors who would
call what he would think and I'd have to throw
and bend it around to what I would think because
I was fighting for this because I had very firm ideas.
And again that's another another time of keeping things in
(32:46):
the realism look and don't make it look designed. That
was a struggle. That was a struggle to get that
and I think, I really think we did pull that off.
That was an enormous film. That was you know, the
Bow of the We built that and just the whole
big Bear page up in Brisbane and towed it down
(33:08):
to the Gold Coast and shot on the on the
waters on the Gold Coast.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Which is just yeah, it's just crazy when you think
about it. And I think that's why some of this
stuff sticks around out or because I feel like the
audience and the fans really appreciate like that degree of
realism because it's it's it's quite easy to see nowadays. Look,
I still like certain movies nowadays, but sometimes I hate
when I sit down to watch something and I know
(33:35):
everything on screen is computer generated.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
It's just painful.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
Yes, yeah, because you know that the Arctic Warrior coming
up to the bow of it and shining the lights up.
That's that was a sick you know, it was amazing.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
And then also the the like the ballroom dancing set
where the wire cats anyone in half that that too.
That was this amazing set that we built out in
the middle of the of the woods and had to
change it from being that beautiful look and then we
had like a week or something to turn it into
the rusted Hulk, and it.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Just looks so fantastic even now, like it's what twenty.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Two three years later.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and it's it still looks
fantastic when you look at those scenes. Yes, another one
I wanted to ask you about as well, which I
don't know if you can make out. On this side
of me, there's a little guy here in the background,
which is Vincent Sinclair from a House of Wax. I
(34:47):
actually had that peace commissioned. It's the villain from House
of Wax.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
Oh what right? Yes?
Speaker 2 (34:53):
And how is it working on that? Because there's another movie. Look,
I know others probably it's like you said, there's a
lot of things I look at and I go, well,
he really had the bones of something that could have
been absolutely amazing, but it just fell short on certain things.
But as regards the town, the sets, the design, what
(35:14):
was that like, because that to me is one of
the like I feel like underappreciated things run like you
do not realize like the amount of effort and care
that must have went into building all that and design
and that.
Speaker 4 (35:27):
How was that experience?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
Well? Good and bad? The bad bit was. And this
was a time when we were talking before about producers
getting ideas, and Joel was always one for all these films.
He would always have some key idea that you must,
you have to do this, you have to do that.
(35:51):
So for the town, I did some drawings for him
and sent them over to the States and he said.
Speaker 4 (35:57):
No, that's terrible.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
It's just like you see all the time. I wanted
to I'll send you some references of what I wanted
to look like. Anyway, he sent me this book about
a city in North Africa and it was I just
forget the name of it, ben not ben Ghazy. It
might have been ben Ghazi or something like that. Anyway,
(36:21):
it was a town that the Italians built in the
thirties and it was fabulous deco. It was like a
whole deco city, and he said, I wanted to look
like this, and I thought it's ridiculous. Well do an
deco city in the middle of Louisiana, you know, kind
(36:41):
of it didn't make sense. But anyway, that's what he wanted.
So that's how we had to design the town. But
what had to be careful of here was to sort
of keep some of the some of that old town
look with his ben Ghazi look, and we did that well.
(37:03):
In the end, I think it left the reality up
behind it. In my opinion, you know, that the what
I always aim for. But it still was kind of
not too over designed to look like what he really wanted.
We went both sides went and lost, you know what
(37:23):
I mean. Yeah, but it was quite a feat. You know.
We built the whole goddamn town, you know, for a
million bucks.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, which is which is kind of mad when you
think about it, like, how does how does the I
don't know, like how does that even start to think?
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Like that?
Speaker 2 (37:42):
You can look at the location and Okay, there's basically
nothing here, and then however, long later you've built like
a ghost town essentially.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
Yeah, from scratch, Like.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Yeah, well that's that's what designing and filmmaking is, you know,
I mean.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
It's that's crazy.
Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah. That was also done in Queensland with pretty much
the same crew as ghost Ship, so great Addison's you know, fantastic.
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yeah, did that?
Speaker 2 (38:13):
Like there was was it a little bit of a
run there with the same people like there was ghost Ship?
I think there was Gothica, There was House of Wax.
Were was it all you guys? Kind of the same
people coming back?
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Uh yeah, a lot of them? Yeah, yes, yeah yeah,
because at that stage the Queensland crews were limited, so
you know, you got pretty much the same people.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Another thing that I think a lot of people will
probably notice about you, and maybe most know you for
is The Walking Dead. I mean, to work on something
like that, had you any idea that it would become
what it was?
Speaker 4 (39:03):
What it is?
Speaker 3 (39:06):
Uh huh? Now, I didn't think it would that a
lot of other title did and I did.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, Like I mean that shot to the stratosphere. I
spend a good bit of time in Orlando every year,
and I do there like Halloween, Harnight's event and University
studios and things like that. And I remember one of
the first years that I spent like two or three
weeks there, the entire event for Halloween was based on
(39:38):
The Walking Dead. And I don't know if you if
you know that or you're familiar with that, but like
the entire park was basically done with different sets and
different things from from the show, different scenes from different seasons. No, yeah,
like that's got to be crazy if you, right, as
somebody who who's behind a lot of the looks and
(40:01):
a lot of the designs, to see how much that's
in the mainstream now, I feel like the Walking Dad
has become like this staple of like if you're a fan,
if you're not a fan, if you're young, if you're old,
and you say the Walking Dad, pretty much everybody has
an idea of what it is.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Yes, is that.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
That's got to be gratifying, right to know that, like
you know, you were involved in a lot of how
this looks and how people perceive this thing.
Speaker 4 (40:30):
You're you're kind of the one behind it.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
Yes, yeah, I mean of course, and of course I
had the the great thing of my wife was the
sick sid decorator. So we would we were just leave
and talk with walking a whole life for six years.
But yeah, no, very good to find you know that
(40:53):
seventy million people every week would watch the show that
you worked on and you designed. Yeah, it's quite a
bus really is it?
Speaker 2 (41:01):
Like you know, personally like behind the professional aspect. Obviously,
I know you guys are professionals, so it's not like
you sit there and go, oh, you know, how great
are we? But it's got to be kind of, you know,
bizarre from a from a personal standpoint to sit down
and look at that and go, yeah, like we were.
I remember, you know when we designed that. I remember
(41:21):
when we we dressed that. I remember when we brought
this in And now you're looking at it on TV
and like you said, you know, there's the bones of
twenty million people tuning in every week.
Speaker 3 (41:32):
Yes, but you also I do think God would or
not made that day? Was what find it? To get
that there? You know?
Speaker 4 (41:42):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
What was the over experience, like for working on that show,
because you're done a lot of that, So what was
the overall experience? And I guess the takeaway I didn't
know that your wife had also worked as the set
restaurant as well, So that's got to be, like, I guess,
kind of an added bonus to.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah. Oh yeah, of course. I mean it's it's wonderful. Yeah,
I guess it is.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yes, I was going to say, that's like a double
edged sword there.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
Oh no, I was trying to think about it. You know,
after a while you just go, oh, you're all seventy
million people tuned into something we did. This is this
is what we do and we must be doing it well,
you know it's it's it's nice to talk about it
when people say, oh, you weren't on the Walking did Yeah,
yeah we did. But not to let it get yeah
(42:36):
see too much. You know what I mean, it's you
you know that well, if we did this good, we
must be sort of good at it. So just take
it that way, but not let it go to your head.
Speaker 4 (42:49):
And yeah, we're the working dead people.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Is that a lot of you know, how you kind
of progress through your career in a sense that like
when the work is good production see that. You know
you've done all that work on The Walking Dead, all
the other projects we mentioned, not to mention the countless
projects that we there's not enough time in the day
to talk about. Really, is that kind of the Is
(43:17):
the word of mouth in the industry been the best
thing for you? As in, you know, people see what
you're really doing and go, yeah, I want that guy.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
Yes, I think so. Yeah. I think probably someone would
seek you out because of what you do. And I
guess I always used to say, you know, I get
a script and there's not much horror in this, I
guess I won't be doing it because that's they want me.
(43:48):
So that particular thing, you know, because of what you.
Speaker 4 (43:51):
Do, does that.
Speaker 3 (43:54):
You No, No, No, I wouldn't. I don't think I
wouldn't want anything any other way. I wouldn't have. You know,
I missed out on well, I don't know what I
missed out. I just got overlooked, as you do. I'm
working on really large budget films. I didn't really do
(44:16):
anything that had tons of CG or anything like that.
I don't regret that at all. I had a great
life doing what I do. In fact, I'll tell you
what is a blast, and that is still and I
must say I live in the States now. Yeah, whenever
(44:39):
someone finds out I've worked on Mad Max that they go, god,
really and I kind of think, gee, you know people,
so they're kind in a way. Two, give you some
cudos for what you did so long ago. So that
that's a blast. Yeah, yeah, that makes you cool.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
Do you have any.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Favorite movies or maybe movies that you personally revisit more
than others, like anything that sticks out? No, not really,
do you watch you watch a lot of movies or
do you get a chance to or is it just
something that you don't really doesn't really cross your mind.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Oh, I see gazing in movies every night on the box,
you know, and boy there's some crack, but uh huh.
I don't really go back and watch reruns or you know,
if I've seen it, I've seen it. It's kind of like, yeah,
something like that, Oh, let's watch that say it.
Speaker 4 (45:46):
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
But then if you do happen to watch one and
you go, oh, I forgot that that was I'm glad
we watched this again.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
What do you like to do when your in your downtime?
I suppose you know, do you struggle to turn off
that creative side or do you have something that's completely
I think a lot of people assume that. You know,
if you work in a creative industry like this, your
entire life surrounds that. But do you have anything else
that you like to do to just completely just switch
(46:15):
off and get away from that.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
Uh? Yes, Well, as I've retired. So it took COVID
and to an actor's strike and teams to strike and
someone else's strike. I remember what ruined the whole industry.
(46:39):
So I'm out of here. I can't take this anymore.
And it was getting getting crazy, people getting at themselves,
and it was like, this is bullshit. So I got that.
I've retired. So to answer your question, yes, I'm and
I probably always have been creative in the gardening side
of things, Yeah, creating, creating gardens. I at the moment
(47:05):
have a very huge vegetable garden that looks champion. So
I've gone back to something that I did intermittently between films.
I used to do that. I didn't just finish a
film and go onto another film. A lot of the
time it was a battle, you know, you had to
finish the film and like, oh, when's the next one coming?
You know, you might wait six months, so you had
(47:26):
to do something in those six months. So I would
do landscaping or you know, just gardening and stuff. So
it's kind of a it's a bit of a jump
between one and the other. But probably people don't notice
in a lot of the films that I have done,
where you might see a garden that would have been
I've designed into it. And with my greens people, we
(47:49):
always I always used to wanted to look real again,
and I like we were talking before, and especially on
The Walking Dead, I had a greens lady. She was fabulous.
In the Gile sit the Big Gile, we build a
couple of gardens and we didn't just put in plastic
flowers and stuff. I grew real vegetables and real plants.
(48:12):
And yeah, so that was that's the other interest.
Speaker 4 (48:15):
Anyway, that's a that's kind of a unique one.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
I like that becoming a big thing actually over here
over the last couple of years, I've noticed I don't
know if it's just a trend or something, but I
see an awful lot of people starting to take time
and and and spending time in the garden and like
tending to the garden and doing that. And a lot
of younger people, not just I think a lot of
(48:38):
people that assume, oh, when you get older, that's what
you do. A lot of like young young young people
seem to be really into it. I don't know if
it's something that's like, I don't know, some sort of
a trend or something, but I've definitely seen an optic
in younger people having an interest in garden, which is
which is kind of nice because it's quite relaxing.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Yeah, well, yeah, and I mean especially if you're growing food.
And I think that's maybe where the young people think
comes in a bit. It's like, well, you know, like
the way the world's going on, and maybe we should
be learning how to grow a lettuce or something or
or or something, or learn a bit about how, you know,
how the world operates, how does a tree grow, how
(49:17):
do things grow? You know, what the roots do in
the soil and all that. It's it's not just sticking
something in the ground hoping it grows. It's learning about
the whole biology of it. That's that's wonderful and it's
it's very it's good for yourself I think, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
I have a final question before you let you go.
I feel like you've done, you know, a lot of
horror work, a lot of kind of horror adjacent work.
You know, even with like you said, like stuff like
Mad Max. Why that's not hard, there's you know, there's
some horrific elements to it. Some of the characters are
quite scary and unsettling. What was it you know outside
(49:59):
of Ourviously people see how good your work is and
they want you for those kinds of projects. But what
was it about you know, that that kind of genre
or you know, type of movie that continually brought you
back to it?
Speaker 3 (50:14):
Uh, I don't quite get it? What was it?
Speaker 4 (50:17):
Yeah? Like, what what was it about?
Speaker 2 (50:19):
I don't know if it's I don't know if I
want to say horror, because there's other things and other
elements as well to movies that you've done that I
would say are horror adjacent. But you know, outside of
obviously being offered or being contacted about coming onto the projects,
what was it about that particular style or genre of
film that kind of brought you back to that time
(50:41):
and time again?
Speaker 4 (50:41):
What did you enjoy about it?
Speaker 3 (50:44):
Gee? I don't know, why really, maybe it was. It
was it because I got the realism right side of
it right or something, and I thought, well, did that, well,
let's maybe get let's see if you'll do this for us.
You know, it's of the same genre, and that's probably
(51:05):
why I never got anything with beauty or something like
that in it.
Speaker 4 (51:13):
I feel.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
It's definitely one of the more difficult genres, I think
personally from the outside to probably succeed in, because each
project in each world is so different. You know, you
could say, oh, it's horror, it's whatever, but like if
you look at ten horror movies, like, they're so different
from each other. If you look at ten sub genres
of horror, they're so different. If you even look at
(51:37):
the Walk and Dead from start to finish, it's so
different in different periods, and it really feels like we're
in another place, in another kind of timeline as it progresses,
which I think says a lot about your work, and
I think it's probably one of the more difficult places
to achieve that.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
Yes, yes, you're right, and that's because it's something we
don't know we're making. We can't do any research on
this because it's something that hasn't happened yet, so you've
got to you've got to guess work or I guess
and some sort of mad imagination of what it could be.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Yeah, Grim, it's been a it's been a pleasure to
chat with you on the show from you from from
a personal standpoint, not not even anything to do with
the actual show itself, just from a personal standpoint because
I've adm urge your work for a long time. Thank
you and all the projects you've worked on. I wish
all the best. I would love to stay in touch
(52:45):
over time if that's stable, and yeah, maybe we can
do this again.
Speaker 3 (52:50):
At some point, certainly, I'd love to.
Speaker 4 (52:52):
It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
Thanks Grim, Okay, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Class Horrorcast. Stop
the CHC podcast at classharrorcast dot com at first Class Horror,
on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, or on Twitter at Class
Underscore Horror. The CHC podcast is hosted and produced by
Aaron Doyle and is an fcch production.
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