From Folklore to Fear: Andy Edward's And The New Rumplestilskin

Join us for an unforgettable episode as we sit down with award-winning filmmaker Andy Edwards, the creative mind behind the zombie-comedy hit Ibiza Undead (also known as Zombie Spring Breakers in the US) and the dark, twisted thriller Graphic Designs.

Andy takes us through his journey into the world of filmmaking, sharing how his love of horror and genre storytelling ignited a passion that would lead him to craft some of the most unique and entertaining indie horror films out there.

We dive into the inspiration behind his first full feature, Ibiza Undead, and the wild ride of premiering it at Frightfest (UK) and Sitges (Spain). Plus, we get an inside look at his latest twisted fairytale project, the much-anticipated Rumplestiltskin movie, and how he continues to push genre boundaries with his production company, Paranoid Android Films.

Andy also shares insights into his work on horror anthologies like Midnight Peepshow, Three’s A Shroud, Blaze of Gory, and Grindsploitation, discussing how he balances humor, horror, and high concepts in his projects.

We talk about his creative process, his thoughts on the current state of indie horror, and what it takes to survive (and thrive) as an independent filmmaker in a rapidly changing industry.

Whether you’re a die-hard horror fan or an aspiring filmmaker, this episode is packed with inspiration, behind-the-scenes stories, and plenty of laughs.

Tune in for a conversation that’s as spirited as it is spooky!

For more content - https://linktr.ee/FirstClassHorror

Check out more from Andy here - https://www.paranoidandroidfilms.com/

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/class-horror-cast--4295531/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You can run, but you can't guide from the class
hardcast haunting you from the Emerald Isle, your host, Aaron
Doyle takes you on a journey to the depths of
horror with exclusive interviews, horror news, reviews and more. Tickets.
Please you were about you under the theater of the
mad Enjoy the show.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Findy, Welcome to the show. Pleasure to have you on.
How are you today?

Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm good. Thanks, I'm good. I've got a bit of colds. Apologies,
yeah for anyone listening for my nasal tones. But apart
from that, all good.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Likewise, So you're gonna hear it from both of us.
I always like to go back to the start when
I talk to somebody, what sparac your interest in film make?
And when did you know that it was a viable
career or space you wanted to live in?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
Those two points are very far apart. I can pinpoint
when I have plaus started to get in film, and
it was when I watch Star Wars as a kid.
I saw that at the cinema, not the first time around,
I'm not that old, but I saw that when I
was about four in a double built Star Wars and

(01:15):
Empire Strikes back. I remember getting all the toys afterwards,
but then I used to be really interested in how
it was put together. So I had the books on
the making of and everything like that, so that kind
of sparked my interest. Not only was I interested in
the world, but also how on earth was it made?

(01:37):
But when you're like four, you like, did they get
spaceships and they flew them into space and filmed that?
How did they do it? And then you figure out
all the models and everything. So yeah, it was just
interested in the process since then. But obviously I was
growing up in Birmingham in the UK. There's no filmmaking
kind of well there whatsoever, so it seemed like a

(01:59):
pipe dream really. And then the sort of second influential thing,
I guess was when I was sully ish mid teens
and I started going and hiring things out from the
video shop and I'd get things like Evil Dead and
the early Peter Jackson Film's Bad Taste Brain Dead, and
not only were they films that were fun and exciting

(02:23):
and scary, but they also had that sort of homemade quality.
And so for the first time pre to that, I'd
just watched Hollywood film. Then you say there's no way
some kid from Birmingham could ever make Star Wars. But
you watch Evil Dead and you go, oh, actually, I
can see the joins on this and that's part of

(02:44):
the attraction. Maybe we could do something. And then fast
forward probably another twenty years. I've done various jobs. I've
worked in all kinds of different careers, trying to find
out what I wanted to do, but still always interested
in films and be making shorts and stuff on the side.
And then I made a bland to Zombie shorts and

(03:07):
that led to doing I Beta in Den, which was
and then I was like, that's it and this is
all I want to do. Let's try and make this
a career.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
What was that process like from making shorts, because I
feel like a lot of filmmakers always saying it's probably key,
and it's a really good idea too. If this is
something you're interested in, is to just get out there
and make something, whether it be shorts, get involved in
somebody else's shorts and help out and get involved to
go from that then to shooting something like maybe Done

(03:38):
Dead or is it's known as another name as well
as that in a different region.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Oh yeah, So I beat her in Deady's this UK title.
It was called Zombie spring Breakers in the because I
think the idea was Americans wouldn't know where I beat
them was, but obviously they know what spring break is.
It's called Ecstasy of the Dead. In Japan, it's known
by various so I'm not too sure. It's known as
an ET don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, I think it's a beaten Dead, but I had
seen as well it referenced as Zombie spring Breakers.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
Zombie spring Breakers was its US title. Yeah, I mean
with that it was a case of I just up
the production values like the first. So I did a
series of shorts under the name House Party of the
Dead and they're all on YouTube or Vimeo somewhere if
anybody doesn't see the evolution than the first one. We

(04:29):
shot in my flat in London, just in an afternoon
and we were drunk and some people were stones and
we had ketch up for blood and then by how
the house party sick. They're all like ten minutes. We
had maybe fifty extras, We had a crane, we had

(04:53):
professional makeup artists and one of the guys who shot it,
a guy called Evan Bolter. It was one of his
first Movies is one of his first shorts that he
ever shot. He's now just winning Emmy's because he's been
shooting the Last of Us for HBO. We had some
talented people on that. And then after doing that, those
kind of six shorts, building up the production ladies. Each time,

(05:15):
I was like, let's try and make a feature. No,
because I've been doing about all these zombies at house
parties was essentially the kind of the predis of house
Party of the Dead series of movies, series of short films.
I was like, Okay, where would you have a good
house party, Hibitha And then off the back of that,

(05:35):
so it entirely came from that, and it was working
on that do what you know you can do. I
know after doing that, it was almost my film score
making those short films, and I was like, Okay, I
know zombies, I know it can handle zombies and crowds,
and I know how it all works. Trust me. An
hour and a half of that, would.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
You say that the most important aspect of that process
is actually having the passion and the creativity for it.
Like you mentioned being in your flat and maybe you
guys are having a few drinks or whatever and it's yeah,
let's make a short and let's use ketchup and let's
use this and we'll work with that. And is that
The key to filmmaking to an extent is having that Yeah,

(06:19):
off the cough, Okay there, let's just do this.

Speaker 3 (06:23):
Yeah. I mean you've got to You've got obviously, you've
got to love it because it's hard work. And when
somebody gets on a film set for the first time,
I mean, eighteen in a field somewhere covered in blood,
people either love it and go, this is what I
want to do for the rest of my life, or
people go, what us are you doing? This is madness.

(06:45):
There's so many better jobs to do, and just that
kind of you know, ingenuity that you learn making shorts
for no money. That helps you. I'm still making low
budget films and there's always problems to be solved. Filmmaking
is largely problem solving. Okay, we want to do this,
but we've only got the budget for this. How can

(07:06):
we do it? I've managed to progress beyond ketch up,
but the still you have to think outside the box
and that kind of creativity. How can we make something
it look good on screen with only this kind of
tiny resources that we've got and that will hold you
in good stead then, And that's that's I think why
they For a while there was that trend of taking

(07:27):
low budget indie filmmakers who'd worked in horror and taking
them on to the big projects. Peter Jackson in ort
to The Rings and Sam Raymond and Spider Man. These
were people they knew they could do incredible things with
the tiny amount of money, So give them a lot
of money and see what they could do, and they
did incredible scene Whereas I think some of the newer

(07:47):
filmmakers today maybe they haven't had that background, and maybe
that's why some of the newer marble stuff costs a
lot of money but doesn't necessarily look like it cost
a lot of money.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
Yeah, And I feel the more people they speak with
that horror always seems to be like that that gateway
for a lot of people, even people who I've even
had conversations with, people who are not necessarily involved in
the genre that much, and it became a natural progression
of Okay, let me go and make a horror movie
to get my foot in the door to do something else.

(08:20):
It's funny because like it's still considered like The Red
Headed Stepchild, Horrors. But then everybody uses The studios use
it to make lots of money, the streamers use this
to build up lots of streams. Filmmakers use it as
like a I guess, an entry into somewhere else.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
Yeah, kind of dirty secret of Hollywood really and all
film cultures is that horror is the one that kind
of makes money, and there's the one that people want
to watch. But the substance been nominated for Oscars and
incredible because so rarely does anything get any kind of
critical acclaim from somewhere about the Oscars, like the third

(09:00):
horror movie ever to be nominated, or some daft like that, Whereas, yeah,
this is obviously it's a creative kind of training ground really,
where you can play and you can make mistakes and
you can have fun before making more serious movies. Or
some of us just love horror and just want to
keep making horror movies.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Yeah that's the part I'm like, Yeah, I just can't.
I couldn't see myself ever got into that situation. I
wanted to get back out of horror again.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, if somebody offers me a lot of money make
a wrong comp then I'm happy. To give anything a go.
But if you ask me what I want to do,
it's okay, I want to keep making horror movies. That's
what I like and that's what I enjoy doing.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
When you made I Beat On Dead, what was that
process like going from shorts too? I know you still
said it's considered low budget, but what's the jump there
financially and then I guess everything that comes with that
to take that step up.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, there's a lot that come with that, because even
a low budget feature that still requires fifty odd people
and money that's in the hundreds of thousands. Whereas, yeah,
the shorts have been pretty much self funded, get enough
money to feed everybody for two days. Really, everybody's doing

(10:20):
it for the love of it. Whereas, yeah, this was
proper movie. Everybody got paid, not a lot, but have
been paid. And obviously we shot on location in Ibeta,
so everybody had to be flown out there from the UK.
We had accommodation, we had location, special effects and everything.
So yeah, it was a jump from the shorts. And
obviously then with with even small amounts of money comes conditions.

(10:47):
So you've got to keep the money meant happy because
yet that wasn't my own money, so you had to
I had to find a production company. We need to
put the money in. And then obviously that came with
various conditions and demands and working relationships that you have
to work through to try and get your film made.
So you've got that creative versus financial concern which you

(11:08):
don't have. Sure you have financial concerns in literally how
much money have I got in my bank? Can I
afford to pay my rent this month? If I buy
a prop? But then when it's somebody else's money, they
obviously come in with things they want to do, and
the film's got to be finished and commercial and available

(11:30):
to be sold at the end.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
What was it like shooting on location over there? I
can't have a feel. The few times that I've seen it,
I always get it. I don't know if you're familiar
with the game Dead Island, but I always get that
night where I'm like, this feels like an on screen
version of what I pictured when I played that game
for the first time.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
I think maybe up around about the time we were
filming or something. Actually, because I've written it before and
then the game was out, I think people wild play
saying it maybe as the film was coming out, But yeah,
it was. That was an adventure. One thing I'd not
done was shot abroad before, and we had a young
cat and a young crew in Ibisa. It's like filming

(12:16):
trying to make a film on a club eighteen thirties holiday,
trying to hold it all together, whereas yeah, some people
were partying and enjoying themselves on Abisa. Oh maybe we'll
do a bit of filming. So it was chaos, I think,
which I think is not necessarily a bad thing for
that kind of movie. We wanted to capture that spirit,

(12:38):
and lots of people who've been to Abisa were like, well,
zombies in Obisa, everyone's like a zombie anyway, which is
the kind of vibe we wanted we wanted to get.
Can you tell the clubbers from the zombies? Really? But yeah,
it was a lot of fun. If you can't have
fun making a zombie film in Abisa, then you were
in the wrong job. But yeah, I'm not going to
pretend it was all easy and all smooth because one

(13:01):
of the things you obviously your miles from home and
from knowing where to get things. Oh my god, we
need this. If I was in London, i'd be like, oh, well,
we just go there. Whereas Obesa it didn't really have
any filling infrastructure at all. If the camera had broken down,
the nearest replacement was in Barcelona, so there was no

(13:22):
kind of kit or anything on the island, so everything
had to be brought out. And because the eyebesas, it's
a party island, not much else really. If you're not
let to party, if you're there to work, it gets
quite tricky. We'd turn up at a bar, for example,
and we'd be like, oh, we're scheduled to be in
here at nine a m. And Pedro said he'd let

(13:43):
us in, and they'd be like, oh, Pedro, he doesn't
get out of bed till five in the evening, and
you'd be stuck waiting outside the bar with all his
camera crew, just working on Spanish time. Really, everybody would
go for siestas and everything would shut down.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
Fun, but yeah tricky.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
Did that make it then? I'm just fascinated by that.
To go from like you said, you hadn't shot a
broad and things like that, so you you get this budget.
Everybody has to fly to eat, you're shooting on location.
There's all these problems, everything all seems to Pilon all
at once. Was it hard? I don't know, like, obviously
this is what you wanted. But then at the same
time as wow, now I'm like in another country with

(14:24):
all these problems and issues and fifty people to try
and keep control of on a massive party island while
I need to Then you've got these guys in the
background to put up the money, and they're like, don't
fuck up our money. We need to make this right.
And was there any either alone moments where you're like, shit,
what have I gotten myself into?

Speaker 3 (14:44):
I think there probably were a couple, but they were
very brief, basically just because I didn't have time to
have a proper oh my god, what have I done?
Moments because we were all staying in villas, so we
were staying with each other, so there was no escape. Really.
I walked out of my room. Then there was half
the cast or half the crew sat around when we're

(15:07):
back at the villa and yeah, you're shooting long days,
so you finish your shoot, you eat some food, you
go to bed. I went to bed. Other people went out.
I went to bed, and I'd wake up at six
in the morning and be time to get back on set.
There wasn't really enough downtime, So yeah, there wasn't enough
downtime to really worry about it too much, which is
a good thing really because you just have to just

(15:29):
push on through. And I think if anybody is making
the leaps from shorts the features, I think the only
thing that I will a bit of advice or kind
of a bit of knowledge that I can share is
it becomes an endurance game. Whereas if you're doing a
short and it's two days, you can just run on

(15:49):
adrenaline for those two days. You can be like, we're
gonna do this, We're gonna do this, we can do this.
I don't need to sleep, whereas if you're there three weeks,
you need to pace yourself. You need to make sure
you're eating, make sure you're sleeping, make sure you're drinking fluid.
It's all of those kind of just general healthcare things
just to stop you upsel having a breakdown or anything.

(16:12):
Because it is it's a marathon, not sprint. On the feature,
you have to date eight get up with the same
energy and focus and be like we're going to do this.
But yeah, I wouldn't change it for one I actually
love it, and you do only do it if you
love it. But yeah, just be if you're making that jump,
just be prepared to be like, yeah, this is an
endurance game.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
So when you made that jump, do you feel like
that was based solely after back of the work and
what you could create would essentially no budget. And is
there a skill to also sitting in a zoom meaning
or sitting in off of somewhere trying to convince somebody, Okay,
I need five hundred pounds and in a million pounds

(16:52):
and I'm going to do this. Is that a skill
that you need or does the work have to speak
for itself or is it both? How does that work?

Speaker 3 (17:01):
It's both. It's entirely about networking and then you need
something to back it up with. There are people who
have brilliant work but can't network and they don't get
anything made. And there are people who brilliant networking that
have nothing to back it up with, and they maybe
might make something and then you're all fall apart. So
you have to have both. It is about making contacts

(17:22):
and because you never literally never know which conversation might
lead to your film getting made. If you go to
a film festival and hear the stories of how each
film got made. There's not the same story there. If
you do this, you will have a film at the
end of it. It would be nice if there was,
and there isn't. But the benefit of that is if

(17:43):
you try those steps and it doesn't work, then you
can try something completely different. Serendificity can happen at any time,
and somebody might just suddenly go, oh, my uncle's got
loads of money looking to invest in a movie, and
a random conversation with somebody bus stop can lead to
a film getting made or finance getting point in. So yeah,
just be open and be prepared to kiss a lot

(18:05):
of frogs as well. You have to have a lot
of conversations that lead nowhere. Especially in the financial sign
of things. There's a lot of bullshits. Yeah, a lot
of people will spin you along, oh yeah, we've found
the money, We've got the money, and they just like
to play it essentially being producers or being big wigs.

(18:25):
So you have to deal with that really and don't
believe the money exists until it's sat in your account.
Because yeah, there's plenty of horror stories. I've heard of
people who've started filming and the money it's formed through somewhere. Yeah,
it's tricky, but it is part of the process. You
can't just sit there anymore and hope that somebody will

(18:48):
find your genius. You have to go out there.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
What was the reception like then once everything is said
on and maybe you finished post in the movie, I
don't know, you sit down with the production company or whoever,
what was the reception like them?

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Was there?

Speaker 2 (19:07):
I don't know any talks of sequels that they just
want more of the same. How did you find like
the aftermathad of that whole thing?

Speaker 3 (19:14):
It was quite The post process took quite a long time,
and there were reshoots at the production company wanted and
as far as I know, the film's done pretty well,
sold around the world and everything. I did have ideas
for a sequel at one time, but I've moved on there.
Really you've done Zombies. I was like done done with zombies. Yeah. No,

(19:36):
it was fun. It was fun, and it was from
my first learning experience as the real baptism with fire
really shooting in Ibeta and with all those extras and everything.
I did the things that you're told not to do
when you're write your best feature, and you're told to
use locations which you have like you're flat. You're told
to keep the cast small. We had club scenes with

(19:59):
extras and there so ignored everything and believe in pushing
myself really but also showing the audience some fun stuff.
If they turn in for low budgets onbie film and
it's three people saying the hips, you're just showing them
what you think they're going to see. They watch the
loads of bludgets Onmbie film and suddenly you've got a
beach and a boat as we had, and a nightclub. Suddenly, yeah,

(20:21):
it's more interesting for the audience. Hopefully they're going to
get more on it.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Is it more difficult the second time out? So like
the movie comes out and like you said, it does well,
it's all around the world and everybody's relatively happy with
the final product. Is it difficult then from that point
to move on again? I feel we always and I
always ask people about, oh, the switch from making sure
it's or maybe helping on other movies to your own feature,

(20:48):
and then they glass over the fact that yeah, it
isn't just a guarantee that if you make one and
people are happy that you just instantly have access to
the constant work.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
There's a horrible that something like eighty percent of filmmakers
only ever made one feature, and then the exact number,
but it's something it's eighteen ninety percent some degree statistic,
and I think of what it is various reasons. People
obviously pull their kind of heart and soul into that
first feature, and then maybe if it doesn't do well
financially or critically, we need to do at least one

(21:22):
of those. Then it's just as hard, if not harder,
to get you to get the second one off the grant.
But I think there's also a kind of expectation which
I had as well, which is you've done your kind
of You feel like you've done your stint in the

(21:45):
indie coal mines, and you've worked your hands to the bone,
and you've made your feature for whether it's fifty grand,
one hundred grand, two hundred ground, whatever, and they put
your heart and soul into that, and you've made that,
and then you're like, somebody is going to give me
feature number two, I need to go up, and so
you're looking for one or two million, and that becomes

(22:10):
a very different conversation and a very difficult ass and
I think a lot of people get stun by that.
They assume their second feature will automatically be ten times
a budget of their first, whereas there's no logical reason
for that to actually happen. And I know so many
people who've got stuck, who've been stuck in that process
because you're essentially starting unless you own the production company

(22:32):
and all that budget came back to you from the
first one, you're starting from scratching on a raise for
the second one, and they are trying to raise ten
times as much, so it's gould be ten times as hard.
There is no linear career progression that just goes straight up.
Even your bigger directors, they'll take this film, then they'll
take that film. They're not increasing their budgets each time.

(22:55):
So I think that's something that I would warn first
time film. It's about he's there is no automatic congratulations,
you've made your first feature. You're in the club. Now
we give you real money. That doesn't happen. What might
happen is people go, you did brilliant on one hundred grand,
here's another one hundred grand. Do that again. So, yeah,

(23:18):
don't necessarily there obviously are the big examples of that.
We can think of people who did go up, people
like Garris Edwards, Monsters went on to New God's Willer.
But these are exceptions. That's not the rule. Even a
successful indie film, you can probably then get another successful
indie film made, but you can't. Nobody's gonna automatically go

(23:40):
oh well, don't mate, Yeah, yeah, you're automatically on to
the next level.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Since then, you've I guess, I don't want to call
it diverse. I you've within her thriller aspects, you've done
different sub genres. Do you think that's something that's key
as well? That people don't make a good zombie movie
and then you're making another good zombie movie, and then
make another one, and then make another one, and then
it just becomes if you ever wanted to try and

(24:08):
get a different project made, people are like, yeah, but
aren't you the zombie guy? Just do zombies.

Speaker 3 (24:12):
Yeah, you can get very stereotyped, I think. But for
me it's been mainly not really thinking as a kind
of long term career thing. It's been more thinking what's
going to interest me, what's going to excite me? Whereas
you're doing, oh more zombies, after doing all the zombies before,
wasn't what I was excited about, not used up all

(24:33):
my zombie ideas, but I put everything that I could
into that, so I was like another one. I was like, Okay,
let's see what other genres we can do all within
horror and thriller. That's the kind of where my heart
lies really, But yeah, I like all kinds of aspects
of that. I like sprillers and art house stuff like

(24:56):
horror comedies. So yeah, entertaining myself.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Really, how often do you look at that creation process
through a fan perspective or an audience perspective versus professionally
in the sense of what does your process look like
when you start to create an idea? Is are you
somebody that carries a notebook? Do you take walks? I've

(25:19):
heard of people they'll literally go to a city and
just wander in the city and people watch and try
and get inspiration. And I've also heard filmmakers say, never
follow a trend because by the time you're finished that project,
that trend will be just so stale that it's not
relevant anymore.

Speaker 3 (25:39):
Yeah, with the following the trends thing, even with the
best will in the world, your process from creating a
movie through to being released maybe a hour and a
half if absolutely smash everything out. So yeah, following trends
is difficult. So you've just said, and you're going to
if you're movie making, is you're writing, directing, producing, you're

(26:05):
a cross the life of this thing. If you're acting
in something or dop on something, you're turning up for
two weeks, then you can forget about it if you want.
But if you're a director on something, you're living with it.
You're living pre production, you're living in production, you're sitting
with it in post when on the wrap day of

(26:25):
a movie or your cast and crew will be talking
about what they're going on to next, and they'll go, oh,
what are you doing next? And next? Months of this
Still we've got to do the sound mix, we've got
to do the v effect. So make sure that your
idea is something that you love really and that you
can follow through and spend a lot of top of

(26:45):
your life with it. So if you're just chasing a trend,
then you might end up finding yourself hating it. And
as the kind of ideas, yeah, just they just pop
up every now and again. I've got notebooks I put
them on my phone because they're all for me. They
don't come at that. Oh, I'm going to sit down
and think of ideas side they come. I'm in the shower,

(27:08):
I'm on the bus. So always before you know, you're
trying to get to sleep is the worst and your
arm trying to sleep. Oh that would be good, and
you like you debate with yourself, will I remember this
in the morning or should I write it down? Always
write it down, because otherwise you wake up and I
had a brilliant idea just before I went to sleep.

(27:28):
What was it?

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, that definitely. I can guarantee so many people
can relate to this.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yeah, So always write it down if you can. Try
and write down as much detail as you can, because
for a while I just would write down keywords, and
then you look at your phone two days later and
you'd go cheese, nightmare planet, and you'd go, what did
that mean? That obviously meant something big to me at

(27:56):
the time. So try and put some explanation to help
your future. So off go. Actually that was that, and
a lot of the ideas won't ever get used. What
I personally find it quite useful. He's trying to combine ideas.
So Punch, which I'm sure we're talking about, that was
a film that came about from combining two ideas. I

(28:17):
wanted to film set in a seaside town in winter
because I really like that kind of melancholy vibe, and
I wanted to make a British slasher movie. But those
are two separate ideas for quite a long time, and
then it's only when they came together that Punch came about.
So if you've got a whole bunch of ideas written down,

(28:37):
try combining them and suddenly you might have something quite interesting.

Speaker 2 (28:42):
Is it a conscious decision for you to direct the
movies you write? And if so, a way is that?
Is it just getting to see your vision the entire
way through.

Speaker 3 (28:55):
I like writing and I like directing, so that's the
way of doing it. But I've written stuff for other
people to direct, and I've directed stuff that other people
have written. I quite like doing all of it, really
because writing and directing, and I've been producing as well recently.
That very much is you're in control of this project.

(29:18):
But it does obviously take it again. It takes a
lot out of you and takes a long time. Whereas
sometimes it's quite nice to be able to write something
and then it's somebody else's problem how they get it
put together. Or I did the director of higher job
a couple of years back, and that was quite nice
that the money had been found, the script had been written,
the cast to be found. My job was just to

(29:41):
common and be on set and work with the actors.
So I like doing the for higher jobs because it's
just a bit easier really, and you can still have
the fun without so much of the stress. But then,
you know, sometimes you're writing an idea and you're like,
I know how this should look. I'm not pass this
on to someone else, so I'm not going to try
and sell the script. I'm going to try and make

(30:03):
this because I know how it should be done.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
You mentioned punch, and it's something that I want to
get into. You know, I'm not sure obviously, maybe people
further afield outside of the UK and Ireland mightn't be
overly familiar with maybe the concept behind this if you
could give it in layman's terms for people, what exactly
is the concept behind the film.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
So, yeah, it's a slasher movie set in a seaside
town in winter and the villain is an evil mister
Punch from Punch and Judy the Puppet shot, and it's
a very strange character in written in real life. It
was originally Italian. It's like an Italian form of street
theater came over to like the UK the fifteenth century,

(30:50):
I think, became huge and it's originally for adults and
adultso go and watch these puppet shows and that'd be
like satire about the politician loyalty of the day, and
then it morphed into being this children's entertainments with people
watched at the seaside. Still quite un freepy, to be

(31:13):
fair and creepy. Yeah, Essentially, it's about a guy who
beats his wife, who beats his child against beaten by
a crocodile. There's a lot of death and violence in this.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
No, the next question didn't take.

Speaker 3 (31:28):
Much to turn it into a horror movie.

Speaker 2 (31:30):
Basically, Yeah, that's because that's what I was going to ask.
Where are you just sitting somewhere someday having coffee and
you're like, huh. Punch and Judy was quite unsettling and scary.
I wonder if I turned him into a villain, Like
how did that process?

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Now?

Speaker 2 (31:43):
When I see the final product, I'm like, of course,
why wouldn't you make him into a horror villain? But
I guess previous to that, it's I'm like, yeah, if
it seems of course, why hadn't someone else thought of
this or where did that?

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Well? I thought that was exactly my thought process, and
so yeah, it came about. As I said earlier, I'm
having two separate ideas. I wanted to do a film
set in a British seaside. I always liked that vibe.
I'm from Birmingham, which is as far as possible from
the seaside in the UK, so I was always excited
when i'd see the sea. So even if I was

(32:15):
there for whatever reason in February and was railing in
cold and horrible, I'd still be like, and I still
get a man. And then I wanted to create a
slasher movie that could end up being a franchise. So
I knew he needed a character, a big character. But
I wanted to do something with an American style story,
which was teenagers being killed on a night out. I

(32:38):
wanted to make like a British serial killer. And I
had terrible ideas like maybe he'd wear a union Jack
out of it or Bowler Hat or just awful ideas,
and then it wasn't. As soon as I went, oh,
maybe my British serial Slasha Killer could be at the seaside,
always got to be mister Punt. And then I thought,

(33:00):
oh God, somebody's done that. Somebody must have done that,
And there's been Mister Punch has popped up in a
few horror movies. There's one where he's a little killer
puppet in an anthology from the seventies, I think, but
nobody had ever done him as a mass killer before.
So I was like, let's make this as quickly as
we can before somebody else into it.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
How does that conversation go when you sit down with
other members of your team or like creative characters and go, okay,
here's the idea. What was the I guess the reception.
I can't help but feel like if you were in
any way fan of horror in sneap, of course we're
going to make this.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Yeah. So that was so Punch was actually produced via
my production company. Give audience a little bit of background.
So it was in the pandemic that I had a
bunch of other projects I was working on everybody's. It
all fell apart because nothing was being shot and I
didn't have any work. I didn't have any money, just

(33:59):
so home looking after my kid, who was three at
the time, So that gave me some spare time, and
I came up with the idea of why don't I
set on my own production company so I can start
teaching myself really the film finance side. So with I
Beta and Dead, for example, I'd written and directed it,
but I was not involved in the financing or in

(34:23):
the distribution, and people would ask me questions about the
distribution of it, and I'm like a Melania, you don't
know how any of that works. If I can teach
myself I'm from a low budget perspective, then I can
start to be in a bit more control of what
gets made. So rather than going to other people and game,
I've got an idea, will you give me any money please?
If I could work out how to raise finance, then

(34:46):
I'll be in a bit more control about what gets made.
So Punch was via that production company, so I could
I essentially greenlit it myself. Obviously had to get other
people involved, and so I worked with my co producer
on that called Becky Rebecca Matthews. She's with the guys
you did the Winny the Pooh movies. She's like super

(35:07):
experienced producer. She's only like thirty, but she's made like
maybe seventy movies. Okay, super experienced and a brilliant persons
have on set and I was like, Okay, Becky, come on,
you can help Hope produce. We're doing a Mister Punch
horror movie. Kind of first step was really it was
designing the character, because a slasher movie kind of lives

(35:32):
or dies by its slasher, by its mass by the villain.
So it was actually a company in Ireland, Rubber Johnny's. Yes,
I don't if you know those guys. So they make
er late masks and props and stuff, and so they yeah,
they made the Mister Punch, did some drawings and sent
them in and they made me a bespoke And I

(35:53):
remember the day I got it back, got it in
the post. But I've seen pictures of it. They've been
sending me kind of pictures as they've been working on it,
but it wasn't until I got it in the post
and I put it on, looked in the mirror. Yeah,
scared my wife with it. I was like, Okay, it
works because if this hadn't been scary or looks silly

(36:13):
in any way, it obviously looks a bit silly. It's
mister Punch, but it looks its sinister as well at
the same time in the way that mister Punch is. Yes,
his squeaky voice and this huge nose and everything, so
we should be funny, but yeah, also creepy and the
mask captured that we're going to be all right here?

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Do you still have the mask?

Speaker 3 (36:35):
I do, It's in my cupboard. Done that.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
I feel like horror collectors people. I was asking me
to ask the makers, do you have props you know
or movies? Do you ever keep something from production? I
feel like that one. I'm assuming it's one of one,
so it's probably no.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
We had three copies made in case any got damaged
or anything, and it's our bespoke masks. So we're looking
to do Punch two at some point soon, so the
mask will be back, so I'll probably get some more
copies from Robert Johnny's. I've got one, and I think
the stunt guys have got the others because some of

(37:09):
them got a bit damaged. Various kind of activity. But yeah,
we had three of those made up. I haven't got
too much from films. I would have kept lots more,
but I live in the small flat in London with
my wife and child who don't necessarily want hanging around.

(37:29):
And the thing is with latexit rots, I've had like
arms and heads and stuff from films and I'd love
to keep it, but it does just not specially if
it's got all that fake syrup people on it. Yeah,
right away, so.

Speaker 2 (37:43):
People can expect because I always feel like, I don't
know if it's maybe just a complete misconception, but if
you can come up with a cool, interesting, unique slasher villain,
it nearly instantly makes the community go, okay, this is
like a franchise. Now we're definitely okay. I have to
have more. I have to have sequels. I have to

(38:03):
have prequels. Was that something that you considered at the
time you just mentioned Punch two now, was that something
that you had planned at the time or was it
dependent on the reception and how it.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Was It was baked in from the start that I
wanted to Obviously, of nobody was interested in the film.
We couldn't sell it then, that goes on the back burner,
but yeah, it was definitely something I wanted to do.
That was part of the idea, was to create a character,
because that's what people That's what keeps people going back

(38:35):
for the sequels. There's some brilliant slashing movies that I've
only ever had one because the movie might be great,
but nobody remembers who the buy or sometimes woman in
the mask. What The ones that have kept going are
the ones where you can instantly picture the bad guy,
and so that was why it was so important to

(38:56):
do that with Mister Punch. Mister Punch, he's gotta look,
he's gotta look, got a recognizable look. And yeah, I
Punch two's nearly been finished being written, so I didly
I like to get that shot this year, and then
I've got ideas for prequel sequels, Punch in Space, the
well there. We just able to find the money to

(39:17):
get them made.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, I feel like people eat that stuff up as well.
Do you enjoy that? Obviously, I'm sure you're a fan
as well, but as as a professional and someone whose
career is based in for the most part of the
horror genre, is that something that you appreciate about the audience.
I feel like we're quite die hard, and there's a
very cult movies can pick up a cult follow and

(39:40):
really quickly and like the fans will get behind it.
They want they want their version of the mask, they
want to figure, they want t shirts, they want this,
they want that, and they keep us going.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Oh only one. That's the kind of reason that in
the horror filmmakers exist really is because there is a
no audience for indie horror film, where in the way
that there isn't for indie mom coms or many other genres.
Horror fans are almost I think budget aghostic. I saying

(40:13):
in a way sometimes even when you see some big,
glossy Hollywood thing coming out, it almost counts against a
movie for kind of hardcore Hollywood fans, because horror fans,
because yeah, we want to see we want to see
that edges, if we want to see the joints. We
want to see real blood and real guts, which we
know that maybe with the Hollywood thing we won't we'll

(40:34):
have the edges taken off, both in terms of filmmaking quality,
but in terms of kind of darkness of the story.
Whereas if you're watching an indie horror movie, you literally
anything goes if they filmmakers could just suddenly pull something
out completely out of the bag on you and you've
got oh wow. So that's what I love about horror fans.

(40:57):
They're very vocal as well, so if they don't like
what you've done, they will tell you. They have letterbox reviews.
The worst thing ever. But I think the one thing
that a horror fan won't ever do is criticize you
on your budget. Yeah, once it gets out to the
wider world and you're filmed on two B and the
non horror fans start watching it, then you will start

(41:20):
to get some things going, oh, this budget was only
two dollars blah blah blah. But if you go I
go to fright Fest every year. I try to go
to other horror festivals around the country. People will talk
about the film and what they liked and what they didn't,
but nobody will ever go, oh, yeah, that budget for shit.

(41:40):
People will take your film at face value or whatever
you have to spend on it a judget on that,
which is something that I obviously really appreciate. Yeah, it
works on low budget.

Speaker 2 (41:51):
Yeah, it's strange sometimes when they look at them more
mainstream creators and influencers or whatever you want to call them,
and they come across movies, particularly from the more than anything,
and it seemed to have Maybe we're changing a bit
again now, but at one stage there it seemed to
become like the cool clickbaity thing to pick a movie
and probably not even watch it, just mirrored the opinions

(42:13):
of like other mainstream creators and be like, let's garbage
this and that's that, it's laughable. There's a constant just yeah,
I think.

Speaker 3 (42:21):
There's that kind of all so bad, it's good kind
of sneering at movies that don't have a lot of money.
Maybe the effects are obvious, whereas I think, yeah, if
you're a horror fan, you'd much rather a real prosthetic
arm coming off, even if you can tell it's fake
it's a Hollywood movie where it's CG or they cut

(42:44):
away from it. You want to see that arm, even
it's if it's just clearly got it hidden behind him
and whatever would.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
You be open to? And it leads into something. I
don't know how much or how little we can talk
about it in a second, but do you ever sit
down and maybe look at existing ips or franchises or
names and either have you ever I don't know, written
like your take on another character or something maybe you'd

(43:14):
like to bring back that you feel like you mentioned before,
there's a lot of v slasher movies, a lot of
movies that came out maybe in the eighties and stuff
that only ever got one one shot and maybe you
could re imagine them in modern day or do your take.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
I've never written anything because I'm very much I'm writing
to get something made rob because if you write something
based on an ip, you don't know and you can't
make it. But yeah, I mean there's films that I'm like, God,
I'd love to get a hold of that, And obviously
so many things have been rebooted now and being redone.

(43:48):
I think the one thing that I would really love
to get into how Raise Up. I just think that
the first movie, or even the first two, maybe in three,
even four, if we're being very generous, I've got so
many ideas because so many slashes. It's a guy in

(44:09):
the mask, you know, relatively limited in what you can do,
but hell raised these are things from like and there's
a dimension they can do anything, and the film's just
got smaller and less ambitious over time. Yeah, whereas I
don't know they the sort of modern one was okay,

(44:29):
but I just think there's so much you could do
in that world and what clove Markers invented is that. Yeah,
in an ideal world, if someone said what do you
want to do, I would say, I don't want to
do new How it is, it's definitely scary, proper just nuts.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
It definitely feels like a missed opportunity with that world.
Like you've just mentioned, it's it could be so vast
and so open. But yes, that you mentioned that. Look,
I love even a lot of the sequels for they
are and maybe it's that horror and thing you talked
about where I can allow certain things that maybe other
genres or other communities wouldn't allow. But yeah, you're definitely

(45:10):
right about that that they as it went on, it
got smaller and towards the end it really felt like
we were just shooting in like a single room.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
Yeah absolutely, And yeah, just financial reasons for that, and
the lesser ones were made just to keep the rights
and nobody cared about it and everything. But yeah, if
you think of what they had in the second one,
they were in another dimension with this Maize and the
Leviason and all of this. There's a whole mythology out
there that you saw and watched those as like a teenager,

(45:40):
was like, oh my god, this is almost like religious
experience where we're going through this, and then yeah, it
just got smaller and smaller.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Yeah, it was like they used pin head. They'd just
give them a handful of really cool clippable quotes and
that would be used for all of the promotion and
then that'd be it.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
Yeah, and then he wouldn't be in it at all.
Oh yeah that's something. Now, Yeah, there's my pitch to
the universe. And yeah, the new one was fine, wasn't it?
But again not enough, not enough ceabite action, which is
what everybody what's the faff about other stuff? And you're like,
I just want to see these guys see the satellites.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
Speaking of that then, and like I said, you can
direct this as little as much as you can. Are
willing to talk about Rumboster the skin, How did that
come across your mind? Like where did that come from?

Speaker 3 (46:42):
So that was coming from partly because this was again
via my production company. So it's trying to think of
something that would sell, So you're looking at what people
are interested in that and obviously those very Tale horrors
are big. But I also knew I didn't want to
just do a slasher movie based on a fairy tale character.

(47:04):
I've done mister Punch. He's not a fairy tale but
he's still a might p slasher, and I knew I
wanted to Punch too, so I still wanted to carry
him going. And I know the Winning the Pooh guys
as well. It's a small it's a small industry over here,
so we all know each other and have lots of
the same crew working on ours and stuff. So I
did want to copy what they were doing as well.
Just what they've done so well is take a cute

(47:26):
characters and make them evil and turn them into slashers.
So I was trying to think, is there a fairy
tale called Disney character that's evil already? We could just
up the evil. And you know I talked about earlier,
I've got so when yeah, he was about two or three,
I would read those books of fairy tale and some

(47:49):
of them you're like, I don't have to skip this
one because it's quite dark and rubble Silkson's one of them.
He tries to steal a baby and then he doesn't
get the baby and he kills himself in the end.
So you're thinking, it's just right we two or three
year ounds obviously on a horror filmmakers. What did I

(48:10):
think it's need to be scared as much as possible
at a young age. So yeah, that once I thought
about that character, and then again like mister Punch, had
to check that he hadn't been done by somebody recently.
And the most recent there's a film in the mid nineties.
Yeh ki. Yeah, he drives a motorbike. He's in present
day La, so very different.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
For people who don't know that was I want to say.
It was directed by Mark Johns, who is famous for
like the leprechn franchise and stuff.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Actually very very yeah, because.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Even when we talked to him on the show, he
basically said that he was like, we just what ended
up happening was I don't know if it was Trying
America or somebody said we want lepre on again but
not lepre Con, So is there anything like we could find?
And then that was like the next thing to be like, oh,
just get him, just put him into.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
That, Yeah, he's essentially just a leprochor. Yeah, much but
very different. And I thought, okay, I want to do
asking how we're going to do and what we're going
to do. And I was a big fan of Robert
Eggers with the wit and that kind of thing, and
I was like, okay, that's how would you know Robert

(49:19):
Eggers do Robert Stiltskin essentially, And that was the kind
of the thing that got me into it. Produce a
brain tell characters and then creative brain goes, oh, but
how can I make it creative? And went, oh, you
like those kind of movies? I make it. Make a
movie like that looks like something like that. Obviously I
don't have not comparing myself to Robert Eggers at all

(49:43):
in terms of talent, and I don't have anything in
terms of his budget, but that was the kind of influence.
Could we do something that's genuinely period, so it's not
a fairy tale character killing modern day teenagers. I wanted
to do something that's muddy medieval grim and harks back
to the original story, really, because the Brother's grim story

(50:06):
is to a large plant thefo horror there. Whilst some
of the things like Winny the prun stuff are taking
a character who's cute and making it evil. If you're
going back to the brother's grim stories, you're instead you're
de diisnifying those and you're going back to what they
were originally. If you're making the horror movie of a
brother's grim story, they are horror.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Does that make it logistically more difficult in the sense
of it from a perspective, would it have been just
easier for you to be like, Okay, let's do Romusinskin,
but let's just do it in twenty twenty four and
just like that would be easier than having to go
back because I.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Was a million times easier. Yeah, shooting a period thing
on a micro budget is madness. And it's the kind
of thing that if somebody told me they were going
to do it, I'd be like, you're an idiot when
it's your own idea, Like I think I can do it,
I think I can do it. I think you've squeeze
this out. And me and Becky had done she'd been

(51:06):
produced for hire and I've been directed part on a
film called Cinderella's Revenge, which we'd shot the previously, and
that was my kind of first taste of period, and
I loved it. Actually it's hard, But when you're on
a set and people are coming past in ball gowns
and everybody's dressed up and on one for silk, where

(51:26):
people are coming past on horses and in armor, you're like, oh,
this is a real film. You can see the magic
of film happening before your eyes. Whereas if you're doing contemporary,
then you're in your hoodie and you're casting hoodies and
you're filming in an airbnb. It's fun, but you could

(51:47):
be doing anything. Whereas, yeah, somebody's coming past. We've got
three horses and knights coming past you. Then you're like, oh,
you're living out your proper Ridley Scott fantasies here of
making a real movie. So I knew that from Cinderella.
I knew it was going to be hard, but I
knew it was possible if you're clever with your locations,

(52:08):
with your costume. But yeah, it proved it was hard.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna lie to everyone and
say go and make a period drama. Unnow, money it's easy,
it's really hard. You can't just go to Primark and
buy a costume. You can't just gorilla shoot in the
streets or go to your main's house to shoot something.

(52:29):
Or your costumes or your location or your props you
have to think about to hire or you have to make.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Yeah, instantly, I'm like, God, that's going to be difficult
to pull that off. When can people expect to see that?
And I guess what's your like? I don't know how
involved you are, like release plan and distribution and things
like that.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
So this is one that I've produced myself via my company,
so I have been across that. So we are premiering
at fright Fest Glascow start of Mark and then it's
going to be hitting streaming pretty soon after that, some
time in April.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Any particular streamer or is that going to be the way?

Speaker 3 (53:13):
I don't know the details yet, but it will be
generally the release of these kind of movies, so it's
not going to be exclusive with anyone. Tends to be
your first window is it goes to the pay per view,
so you're on Amazon that you have to pay for it, iTunes,
you have to pay. That tends to be the first
window and your second window will be an exclusive streaming deals.

(53:38):
So maybe schedule on Netflix or something like that, and
then it will go to your avon streamers, which is
your Amazon Primes, your two be YouTube potentially, So that
tends to be the life cycle of a straight to
streaming movie, which is the equivalent straight to video these days.

Speaker 2 (53:59):
I have a couple of quick fire questions before I
let you go, but just on the topic of streaming
things like that, for you, as a I suppose from
a fan perspective, and then also a professional perspective, how
do you feel about how many different streamers and how
many different opportunities there is? Because I flip flop on

(54:23):
my opinion of it, because as an audience member sometimes
I remember having to rent videos and you were committed
to that movie or however many tapes and that was it.
And now it's like I have everything at my fingertips
and I never really know what to I have this
ever growing list of recommendations and things I want to
watch and never seem to get through any of them.

(54:46):
But then, for you, in a professional aspect, is that
always a good thing? Because I've heard horror stories of
people their movie, they're super excited and maybe they get
filled full of shit by somebody about oh yeah, we're
going to do it, We're going to do that, and
then the next thing you know, it gets dumped on
some streamer with fifty other movies and nobody sees it.

Speaker 3 (55:07):
Now.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
The beautiful thing about that is I think social media
and the internet, especially within the horder community, it might
take four or five years, but then somebody finds it
and all of a sudden, it's like the new movie
that everyone's discovered that came out six years ago.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
Yeah, I think I agree with everything you said there.
It is very much a double ed sword. There's more
places than ever you can put your movie now, and
they're all looking for content, and indie movies are fine.
Whereas before you had very much had gatekeepers. Your movie
went theatrical and then he went to DVD, and if

(55:44):
nobody thought it was good enough for those, then it
might never get released. Now your movie will definitely get released,
even if you have to self release by a film
hub or something. But then, obviously on the downside of
that is the amount of money you get paid for
stream versus what you'd have got from a cinema ticket

(56:06):
or a DVD. It's tiny. You're talking fractions of per cent.
Rather than you'd get half the cinema ticket if it
goes used to go to cinema. So there's there's good
and there's bad. From a filmmaking from a producer's respective,
somebody will always be able to watch my movie. And
people will say, now, where can I watch your movie?

(56:28):
I can generally point them to six different places, whereas
previously you might have had to go, oh, it's on DVD,
but the DVD is discontinued, so it's gotten there. But yeah, financially,
the money comes in dribs and drabs now rather than
one big And then as a fan, I'm the same
as you. I grew up hiring vhs, then I moved

(56:52):
on to buying DVDs and Blu rays and now yeah,
I'm the same like all of these streatments. Too much
to w but obviously you can watch a wide range
of stuff. So much stuff is available. You don't have
to wait to find the special edition import DVD of something.

(57:13):
But I think also if there is no physical release,
then once it's gone off streaming, which I think is
there worrying because back when everything was on physical you
knew it existed somewhere, even if the release had been discontinued,
you really wanted to watch it, you could go on
to eBay and you could find that import DVD or something.
But now if all your streaming services have taken it off,

(57:37):
the film's effectively manny, which is worrying. It's made feels
more disposable.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Yeah, and I think also the viewing habits as well.
And this is something I was talking to about to
a few first time directors and they were talking about
how they'd had some not so great reviews on Letterbox
and I was like, the bad news isn't going to
get work because the film goes through the process of
as I was describing, the people will see it at

(58:06):
a festival and you will get a very engaged audience.
Whether they like it or not, they will have engaged
giving you an informed opinion on that film. Then you've
got people who bought it. Then you've got people who
sat down on the streaming. But then by the time
we get to two b it's background noise. And bizarrely,
you'd think if people weren't paying for it, you'd get

(58:28):
better reviews because they haven't.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
The opposite, but.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
It is the opposite. People were paid piece of ship
because people have just engaged with it less I think,
and they and it's been on and they've been on
their phone at the same time. Well yeah, oh that
was that made no sense. You weren't watching it. So
that's and the same thing to happen with music. By
things like Spotify, recorded music is now very much a background. Yeah,

(58:55):
And I think once your movie hit those kind of
a streamers, it can often become a background thing, which
is why I think about festivals are so great because
you can get your before it moves to that audience.
You can at least super sub your dedicated horror film audience.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
Yeah, I think, and get a get a real gauge
on how it's actually performing and how an actual audience
are receiving it, because I've definitely dealt with this at
a way lower level. Again, but like times I've had
crossover guests who aren't filmmakers or writers or something like that.
I will have I will have had someone on or
interviewed somebody. I interviewed a real life exorcist at one point,

(59:35):
Fader Vincent Lampert, who's like really Internet famous now he
does all these big podcasts and whatever, and like, over
the course of a few weeks, I think fans of
his or like his audience came across and I just
started to get all these obviously people who weren't interested

(59:56):
in anything else other than just being brought over by
him man. And I was getting a lot of Oh,
you're terrible at asking questions. You don't know anything about religion,
You don't And I was like, I never actually claim to.
We clarified at the start, like it's a horror based
channel and interview and a real life extracist that's the
kind of thing. But this went on and on. It
was like what you said, it's it's the thing about

(01:00:17):
like showing your movie at the festival to people who
want to see a movie, who want to enjoy a movie,
regardless of oh I didn't really like this or I
thought that could have been better. But I like this
and I like that, and I appreciate this versus like
you said, when you get down and down, it just
becomes oh, it's just shit. Why is it shit? That's
I don't know, but it's just shit, and that's it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Yeah, just yeah, don't yeah, So ignore the reviews, I think,
because once it hits to b you know, just yeah,
it's worth saying, watching your film with an audience and
seeing what people say afterwards, if they're a dedicated audience,
that can be very valuable because you can sit there
and you think you may have edited your film and
know it inside that, but when you sit there with

(01:00:56):
an audience, you can feel you. You'll be able to
feel the dead bits where you're losing them. Oh god, no,
I should look at that, and then you and then
but then he grieves bits where things land. And if
you're doing a horror movie, just probably scared. There might
well be jokes. And if a joke lands or a
scare lands suddenly and you're watching it with three hundred people,

(01:01:17):
that is such a rewarding experience. You can be just like,
my soul has returned to my body, that joke landed,
that's scared, got a couple of people jumping. My job
has been done. I fulfilled the brief.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Do do you have any comfort horror movies like movies
that you would find yourself? I don't know, revisit and
overtime or just ones that stick out. Not necessarily your
top movies ever, anything, but just ones that maybe you've
watched more often than others.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Yeah, definitely what if I watched and I think things
can kind of change. So for example, I'd say not
marn elm Street is one of my comfort horror movies,
but wouldn't have started, And say maybe even The Shining.
I watched those first time I don't know, twelve thirteen,
and they scared me shit less. And now I've watched

(01:02:06):
them twenty times and now I enjoy them an entirely
different level. They don't scare me, so I yeah, So
I think they've evolved over time. And I think if
you'd have told me my thirteen year old self watching
The Shining for the first time, this will become a
movie that you will watch maybe once a year just

(01:02:29):
for fun. Yeah, like what, we're fucking terrified? So yeah,
just at your relationships and things change. But then you're
always looking for something new to scare you. They think,
if what did scare you, then it's become quite comforting.
So you like, give me something.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
So to go into a back into the professional mind again,
is there any sub genre that you would love to
claim that you haven't had a chance to, even if
it's something that people consider it overused, whether it be
found for or some of these other ones that people
are like, oh, they don't all, but is there one
that you would love to dip your tolling.

Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
There's a whole bunch really. What I'm so with my
production company now, what I'm trying to do is expand
it so it's not just me making the movies. I'm
not just writing, directing everything. It's not a vanity project.
So I've got a whole bunch of scripts that were
developing with different writers, different directors. We made a film

(01:03:28):
called Custom, which has also been doing the festival route
I should hope to be out serious, So that was
with So I just produced that by my company, and
that was by a guy called Chargo to Share, a
Brazilian director who lives in London, and that's our house.
See David Lynch, Cron and Murgy kind of horror, and
that's I went with that because that's a genre that

(01:03:50):
I love, but I don't necessarily feel I'm the most
suited for doing it. So that kind of scratch that itch.
I'd love to make a David about I guess horror,
but that's not where my directing or writing tends to sit.
I put more jokes in mine, for example, So then
this script and this other director came to me and
I was like, yeah, this is the kind of film

(01:04:12):
that i'd like to watch. I'm going to I'll help
you produce it out there. So that's what I'm doing
with my production company. Really hopefully, so even genres that
I like but don't necessarily feel I'm suited to, we
can delve into that. I've never done a fan footed
and I would like to, but only if I could,

(01:04:36):
I think, find the right idea, because I think too
often it is obviously used as a kind of and
it's not necessarily even cheaper. You still need all the actors,
you need, you the effects. It's just an excuse to
make it visually looks shitter. And the best found footage

(01:04:57):
is the ones that understand them as I think, and
the worst ones are the ones that ignore the wle
just suddenly, oh is it this person had a camera? Why?
And then cheat cheat. You need that kind of suspension
of disbelief.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
The amount of times behind the scenes that I've heard of,
like maybe somebody comes up with an idea or a
project or a film, and either the company or the
financiers or somebody will say, yeah, yeah, we would make it,
but we'll definitely make it if you can just change
it to found footage and then we can save money

(01:05:34):
and like just and like you can definitely tell. Sometimes
we're projects where it's like, I don't think this story
was actually supposed to be told this found footage and
now you've just put in and like you said, where
it's oh, yeah, this woman that's on this trip for
some reason, has her phone recording for the entirety of
the situation.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
And then she's been chased and she stops to film it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:55):
Yeah, like she's like turning the camera behind her while
she's running and stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
Yeah, it has to yeah, it has to make sense
within that world really, And obviously there's some brilliant ones.
And I think you know everybody every time oh my god,
fand foot she has been done to death, one comes
along where proves it hasn't me. Well, I think it's
the same with every horror genre. All zombies are done,
and then a brilliant zombie film will come around and

(01:06:21):
people go, actually eight years Elater comes out, everyone's gonna
be yea, have you seen that? The last thing I
saw that I thought was really good. Have you seen
a film called mad it's on shut up.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
No, but it is.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
It is actually, yeah, very good and it's not found footage.
It's such it's but it's a one take film.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
It gives you that found footage there because it's just
one a single camera following the characters around. You have
all the energy of found footage, but you don't have
a device where somebody's filming the whole thing and they
do it. It's kind of one take. I'm sure there's
cuts in it various place, but yeah, that's really good.
And again it's the French zombie film shot on one

(01:07:05):
handheld camera. There's a million out there, but suddenly somebody
comes and does it well. As you like all yeah,
life and all of these things. Because I think you
mentioned talking about trends, and I think as well as
people chasing trends that are popular. One of the big
things that gatekeepers will say to you when you're trying

(01:07:27):
to get your film made is all that's done. And
you're taking your vampire script, do your wear wolf script,
and the gatekeepers will say, oh, no, vampires are done,
zombies are done. Ignore that. Ignore that because a as I said,
all it takes is one film to suddenly reignite that interest.

(01:07:49):
But I think there's a level of horror fan who
will watch every zombie film there or watch everywhere wolf
film out there. Ignore those people.

Speaker 2 (01:07:58):
If you could team up with any horror icon director, actor,
past or present, is there anyone that sits atop that list?

Speaker 3 (01:08:08):
Oh my god, I didn't know this question was coming.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
For doesn't even necessarily have to be in horror, just
maybe a filmmaker or somebody that you would love, dead
or alive that sticks out as that's somebody I would
have liked.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
I guess with him dying relatively recently, David Lynch was,
I think somebody who every filmmaker, even if your films
are nothing like what he produced, for expanding the possibilities
of what a film could be. So I think that's

(01:08:43):
many people's fast introduction to surrealism, because you watch all
these movies which are very linear and very this thing happens,
and this thing has happened, and then you suddenly watch
David Lynch film and obviously anything can happen. And the
way he uses obviously music and sound and visuals to
create this kind of atmosphere, I think that's many people's

(01:09:07):
first kind of entry into the world. That film isn't
just about story. It can also be about a mood.
It can also be about the music, the visuals to
that of folks, and I think that's what he did
was obviously unique but very important. So even if you're

(01:09:28):
making stuff that nothing at all like a Davy Lynch movie,
he's still opened up to the possibility of Yeah, but
if you put this image, this music, you can create
this kind of atmosphere. It doesn't have to be about
what the dialogue said.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
It is yeah for people who were listening then that
maybe are already fans of yours or discovering you for
the first name. Where's the best place that people can
keep up to date with everything you're doing.

Speaker 3 (01:09:57):
So my production company is called Paranoid Android Films, so
I post most stuff there that I'm producing. So we've
got a website Paranoid Android Films dot Com. On Instagram,
I'm on Twitter, just joined Blue Sky. I'm on TikTok,
but I'm starting to learn to use it. I'm a
bit old for TikTok, but I also know that things

(01:10:19):
need to get on there really, so I'm working with
some people who aren't quite as old as me to
help me with my tiktoking. So yeah, Paranoid Android Films.
You'll be able to find everything for everybody listening the
social media of your choice.

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Yes, so for everybody listening, whether it's video or on
whatever podcast platform. All the links standy stuff will be
done below the description anyway, so you can check it
out there. So final question before I let you go
is why horror and what does it mean to you?

Speaker 3 (01:10:48):
I literally no idea why it's appealed to me personally,
but I think for the general world, it's about a
way of getting your fears out and exploring them in
a safe space. We can explore the darkness of human nature,
of the world of nature, and then after an hour

(01:11:14):
and a half we're still find And I think in
today's world that's more important than ever. And I think
you saw that in the pandemic when horror films started
to get really popular, and I think the general sort
of entertainment industry consensus was people were going to want
escapism because they were all stuck in and then there
was a real life horror movie happening outsited. People didn't

(01:11:36):
necessarily want to watch movies about a pandemic but people
wanted to watch horror. People wanted to be scared, and
then they wanted it to be over. And that's what
a horror movie gives you, and it gives and that's
what watching it gives me. And I think with making
it as well, this is an outlet for darkness. And

(01:11:56):
I think if you're a horror fan and you regularly
go to festival or conventions or screenings or what have you,
the horror community is generally a friendly and welcoming place.
It's a bit like that heavy metal community. You have
an outlet for your darkness and then you can be
quite a chill person the rest of the time. Yeah,

(01:12:18):
the horror community is generally lovely people, and most horror
filmmakers that you meet are generally not dark people. Sometimes
you get the opposite with comedians, for example, they have
to be funny in their professional life and then that
could be quite dark and depressive in their real life.
Whereas horror filmmakers, it's the opposite. We get a way

(01:12:38):
of putting up our bad thoughts up on screen and
then hope that we can be pretty pretty nice, chill
people off it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
Yeah, I definitely found that. I think all of the
nicest people I've met in the last couple of years
have all been from the horror community, which to some
people outside of it probably seems counter in tool of
it's all there are like sacks lunatics that are like
aggressive and angry and Whatever's No, it's actually quite the opposite.
Some of the most open, genuine, caring people they've met

(01:13:08):
have been through the horror community.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
One and we get to sit for an hour and
a half watching Slaughter, Demonic Possession and then come out
and we're not those people that all out. And the
horror has especially in recent years been a very progressive
place in terms of filmmakers from the different minority backgrounds
getting films made, and I'd say much more progressive than

(01:13:33):
standard Hollywood, even though they like to shout about it
more with a big, aggressive and inclusive of this, it's
still mainly which white guys picking. Where there's a whole
series of films on Shadow at the Moment by a
young trans filmmaker and that's just the way it is,
and people are interested in watching them because having new

(01:13:54):
voices making films about what scares them is interesting coming
from a different perspective of you know, the identity and
how it relates to what scares you, what you find
a horrifying interesting things that we're all interested in.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
For sure, this has been a really interesting chat. I
look forward to doing it again in the future. I
can't wait to see why the rest of this year
and in the next year brings for you and the
company and stuff, and yeah, I wish you all the best,
and I would love to do it again sometime.

Speaker 3 (01:14:24):
Yeah, definitely, we've got I've got a whole I genuinely
don't know what's next to the moment. We've got a
whole bunch of ideas and I'm pitching them out there
to try and find money for them. So it's literally
whichever one comes first, the money men say, And that's
one thing where it is often meant. Sometimes there's sometimes
money women the money people say yes to, and then

(01:14:45):
that's what we're going to make next. But yeah, the
idea is to keep making interesting and entertaining horribly.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
I love it if everybody listened. Like I said, all
the links will be done with laws so you can
check out all that and keep up to date. And yeah,
like I said, it's been a pleasure and AC can't
wait to do it again.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
So definitely.

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Class Horrorcast. Stop
the CHC podcast at classharrorcast dot com at first Class Horror,
on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, or on Twitter at Class
Underscore Horror. The CCHC podcast is hosted and produced by
Aaron Doyle

Speaker 3 (01:15:24):
And is an fcch production