May 28, 2025 • 46 mins
In this episode, I sit down with acclaimed composer Tim Wynn to explore the emotional power of music, his long journey through the world of scoring, and how he brought death to life in Final Destination: Bloodlines.
We chat about Tim’s early love for music, how he got started in the industry, and the first thing that ever truly scared him in the horror genre. He walks us through the entire scoring process — from the first creative meeting to the final mix — and shares insight into how working in film, television, and video games each brings their own unique storytelling challenges.
We take a deep dive into his two-year journey scoring Final Destination: Bloodlines, the pressure (and thrill) of contributing to such a massive horror franchise, and what it was like watching audience reactions to his work unfold in real time. You’ll also hear:
If you enjoy my content - check out more here - linktr.ee/FirstClassHorror
🔗 Follow Tim Wynn:
🌐 Website: www.timwynn.net
🎵 Spotify: Tim Wynn on Spotify
🐦 Twitter: @timwynn_
📸 Instagram: @tim.wynn
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/class-horror-cast--4295531/support.
We chat about Tim’s early love for music, how he got started in the industry, and the first thing that ever truly scared him in the horror genre. He walks us through the entire scoring process — from the first creative meeting to the final mix — and shares insight into how working in film, television, and video games each brings their own unique storytelling challenges.
We take a deep dive into his two-year journey scoring Final Destination: Bloodlines, the pressure (and thrill) of contributing to such a massive horror franchise, and what it was like watching audience reactions to his work unfold in real time. You’ll also hear:
- What keeps him inspired after decades in the business
- His favorite horror scores and go-to films
- Candid, powerful advice for aspiring composers and creatives
- Teases of exciting upcoming projects — including one major title and some unannounced works still under wraps
If you enjoy my content - check out more here - linktr.ee/FirstClassHorror
🔗 Follow Tim Wynn:
🌐 Website: www.timwynn.net
🎵 Spotify: Tim Wynn on Spotify
🐦 Twitter: @timwynn_
📸 Instagram: @tim.wynn
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/class-horror-cast--4295531/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You could run, but you can't die from the Class Hardcast.
Hunting you from the Emerald Isle, your host Aaron Doyle
takes you on a journey to the depths of horror
with exclusive interviews, horror news, reviews, and more. Tickets Please,
you were about to hunter the Theater of the mad
(00:22):
Enjoy the.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Show, so Tan, Welcome to the show. It's pleasure to
have you on. I always like to go back to
the start with guess when I'm talking to somebody, can
you remember first movie, TV show, or just something in
general that scared you?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Rono, you know what? The movie that I just thought
about was Jaws. That scare the living daylights out of me.
I live near the ocean, I go in the ocean
a lot. I yeah, Jaws was pretty much the first
one that scared the living daylights out of me. Would
(00:57):
be that'd be in one age.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
That's just how it's the anniversary, Yeah, which is a
pretty big one.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah, pretty big one. I think people used to I
think my sister used to sing the score to me,
and then I got scared and I didn't want to
go on the carpet because I I thought the carpet
was the ocean. And yeah, I was. I'm still traumatized
by it. I still I I got swimming in a
pool and I think that a shark is going to
get me, and I hear that Jaws team coming.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And that was definitely one of those movies that I
felt like that about for a long time. But somehow,
I don't know if it's like the sadistic part of
the brain or whatever, but it made me more intrigued
to see things like that.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
So you're big on Shark Shark Week on that the kind.
Oh yeah, it's good to know.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
What What was it about what you do now that first,
I guess attracted you to that aspect of the business.
Was there a pivotal point that you could look back
to and say, that's the moment I decided this is
something I would love to do.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, I don't know if there was a pivotal moment,
but it was a slow transformation. I always knew I
wanted to do something in music. From age five to
six on. I always was drawn to writing music, creating
little songs and what have you, And then in high
school doing rock bands and all that sort of stuff
(02:35):
and writing more songs, and then I got exposed to
I always knew about film scores, of course watching movies,
but I never thought about it is that about as
a career until I started looking into the background of
composers that have done that, of John Williams and other
(02:58):
Jerry Goldsmith and you can name them all. And then
I went back to what were they listening to when
they were coming up? And so I was exposed to
goose Off Holtz the Planets. I don't know if you're
aware of that symphony, and it's I could just see
every planet and how it was composed, and to me,
(03:19):
that sort of writing really really excited me. And talking
to this person, talking to that person, this mentor, and
then before you know it, I'm at a school learning
how to do it professionally.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
For people like myself who in this aspect of both
the genre and just film on that medium in general,
who wouldn't know is there a huge difference in Obviously,
you've worked in video games, you've worked in TV, you've
worked in film, that are all adjacent to each other.
I find a lot of people who like video games
(03:53):
also like movies or like TV shows or whatever, And
for you professionally, is there a huge different Obviously, I
know between each project it's going to be probably widely different.
But as regards the process of writing music or scoring
a movie versus music for a video game or for
(04:15):
a TV.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Show, yeah, absolutely. I think the one that stands out
that is probably vastly different than the other two would
be writing for TV. The schedules are much more compressed,
so you don't have as much going back and forth
with the director. So with films and video games you
(04:38):
have a long runway and you really have a chance
to flesh out the themes or to go down the
wrong road sometimes you're not. Everything that you write is
always perfect, every every single time it comes out, so
you have a way of by learning sometimes the wrong
way to do things, you find the path to the right.
(04:59):
So video games and movies to me are much more
similar than TV scoring.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Initially, when you started that sentence, I was like, oh, yeah,
of course movies and TVs are going to be the same,
and video games is going to be the odd one.
Which it's fascinating to hear that it's actually not that way.
Yeah for me, anyway, I can't speak for everybody, and
I will say this.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Old doing Supernatural for fifteen seasons and numerous other TV shows,
there's not as much of that, so it may have
evolved a little bit. The TV scoring is so good nowadays,
there's so many amazing scores that there's probably an extra
(05:43):
week in there. That it used to be only five
days to write thirty minutes of music, and that's not
always the easiest thing to do, so there would have
to be things that you would know have to do
shorthand and just do it over and over again. But
nowadays TV scoring is on par with films and video
(06:04):
games and sometimes even surpassing it.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
For sure, this is probably an extremely broad question, but
again for people who may not be well versed in
this aspect of it, because I feel like it's probably
probably the most underplayed element of anything. Like I've seen
movies before they've been scored and things like that, and
I'm like, wow, this is a completely different experience than
(06:28):
anytime I've ever watched a movie.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
And it was then it.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Started to kind of set in the importance of when
that soundtrack is added, that it's oh, okay, this is
what elicits those emotions, and this is what makes me
feel tense, or this is what makes me feel a
certain way. But for you when let's say, for example,
Final Destination Bloodlines, when that comes across your desk because
this is a potential project, would you like to work
(06:53):
on it? How does the process from I guess signing
on the dotted line to do the project to actually
start in like day one? Where do you you have
to try and dive back into the franchise? Do you
reference some of the previous scores? How does that work
for you for on this project specifically?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I saw that Zach Lapowski and Adam Stein were attached
to the movie. I didn't know they were making a movie,
and so I saw and Final Destination at the same time.
I was very excited because I'm a big fan of
the franchise. So I reached out to them and offered
(07:39):
my services and saw, are you still looking for composers? Yeah,
we just started. We're gonna look for a composer. I said,
I think that I can write you an amazing theme.
Would you please let me write you a theme? And
if you like it, then you know great. If you don't,
then no harm, no foul sort of thing. So I
(08:00):
I tried out for the movie before I even signed
on the dotted line, and they everyone at New Line Cinema,
and the producers fell in love with the theme that
I wrote just from the get go. In that regards,
I was very lucky that I already had the sound
that everyone was looking for on the movie before before
(08:22):
they even shot the film. So I was very fortunate
that way.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Is that something that happens often where I hear a
lot of times from maybe writers or directors and stuff
they'll try and have like maybe the proof of concepts
of different things, or they might come up with treatments
for films. Is that something that in your field happens often,
where like maybe you might come up with something beforehand
and be like, hey, take a listen to this, what
(08:47):
do you think.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
I lost you? It can happen that way, for sure.
It depends on whether or not you have the sound
that they're looking for. On this instance, I felt very confident,
me being a fan of Final Destination, me already working
(09:13):
with Zach and Adam before, and I had an inkling
of what they were going to go for for this project.
I felt like the best way to do it was
to show them rather than talk about it or to say, yeah,
I know I could do the best job on this project,
so hire me. I said, let me let me, let
me show show you instead, and it really worked out.
(09:36):
There's other projects that that I've been called for that
I'm thinking my music. I've done a lot of what
you're looking for and my all my tracks are already
there and you send it and that you don't get
a callback. So it's it's amazing how that you can
be doing it for I've been doing it for now
for thirty years, and I've written so much music over
(09:59):
the years, but every project has their own unique wrinkle,
So more and more I'm trying to if possible, if
I can write. I feel confident that if I can
write some that the producers will listen to it and
then they'll like it.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Having such a long and expansive career, and I was
thinking about this earlier. Does it get as the years
go on? Does it get increasingly more difficult to have
those fresh sounds constantly be able to create things from scratch?
Does it make it easier when you are creating a
(10:36):
new sound woodin an existing IP or franchise versus everything
has to be completely original.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, it definitely. This project specifically was tricky because I'm
a big fan of Shirley Walker's original Final Destination theme
and it worked perfectly. So I had I knew they
were going to look a new theme, so I wrote
something that I felt would fit with her style and
fit with the music that's already been in the franchise
(11:08):
for the last five movies. And it worked out really
well because the filmmakers decided that we wanted to use
her theme to represent blood Worth in the movie. And
I had an instance a couple of cues where I
was playing her theme and my theme as a suite,
(11:28):
going back and forth, hand handing the notes off to
each other, and when it worked really well, and I
was just I was so blessed to be able to
use her theme for this movie.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Considering the success that that this movie has had in
the last week or two globally, I don't know if
I'm misquoting here, but I want to say it's had
the biggest box office opening. Is it safe to say
that we'll probably see more Final Destinations? And if so,
is that something that you would be interested And then
(12:00):
coming back to.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yes, absolutely, I would love to do it. I'll take
the second question first. Everybody who worked on this project,
from the producers Craig Perry and Sheeta Taylor to the
directors who have mentioned to the heads of the studio
they have been brilliant on the project. Everyone was all
focused on the same task, and that was making a
(12:26):
great movie and bringing this franchise back to life. So
for me, it was a dream to work on. And
if number seven they decide to make, I would I
would be very interested in doing it, of course. And
I don't know anything behind the scenes for sure. I
(12:47):
did me see Today's Tuesday yesterday. I know there was
talks of possibly meetings, but because of the global you know,
clamoring for for the movie, so we feel like maybe
there's something there and and if you and if you've
watched the movie, I don't know if you've watched it,
(13:07):
but this puts a pretty good bookend to the prior
five movies and it really wraps up the story. So
there is a a universe where we can just start
from scratch and just start another story up about this
and death has wicked ways, and I think we should
give give the people what they want.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Would that be exciting for you in your role in
the sense of maybe if we start a new a
new storyline, would in maybe a similar universe or whatever
it might be. This you can go completely wherever you
like create creatively.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Oh absolutely, you love to have those abilities. There's times
in the score that you're you're you're you're always writing
to picture and you have these great ideas, but the
picture is only say a minute and a half. The
piece of music that you wrote was three minutes that
(14:07):
you know that it could extend and do variations and
all this beautiful stuff. But if it's not on the screen,
you can't write it. So I'm really happy with it's
on my soundtrack. The first track on the soundtrack, it's
called Bloodlines, and that was the last weeks of music
I wrote. At the very end, we had this great
(14:30):
end titles sequence. In the prior movies they did the
main titles in the beginning of the movie, and in
this movie they decided to do it at the end.
So I had my one chance to really shine and
put the main theme how I really wanted it to
play out, and the variations and things, and I wasn't
(14:51):
beholden to the video so much at that point. So
to me, if you can listen to the soundtrack, that's
my favorite piece, and that was the one time that
I got to write exactly what I wanted to write
for the movie.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And I know, obviously we're focusing on this because it's
it's current right now, but I guess this would apply
to any experience you've had with this. What is it
like when you actually finally get to I would imagine
maybe in a theater, it's probably even better when you
get the chance to sit down in a room full
of people who are excited for this and you get
(15:27):
to see it for the first time in that experience
as it was intended.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Well, yeah, it's great. It's always It's always a treat
when you can do it because you think you've seen
it on your small screen and you've written the music,
and then when you see it getting larger, larger, and
having the audience respond to different parts that you didn't
maybe respond to, and it's really gratifying. And this movie,
(15:56):
for me, I thought was so interesting. We call it
a horror movie, and it is a horror movie, but
at the same time, it's so funny and the audience
really is cracking up. It's it's is it a horror
movie with comedy or is it a comedy movie with horror?
I don't know. I think you should go see it
and decide if you haven't thought about it. But it's uh,
it's a good time and and every time I've seen
(16:19):
it there's just new things that pop off the screen.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
When when you score a movie, do you get final
say in the sense of obviously you're the professional and
you've you've put it together the way you feel is
best suited. Is that a lock then musically or does
that go through another process maybe? And then when you
get to see the final product things could have changed.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Again. I wouldn't say a composer would ever get their
final say. It's say, if there's something that I really
want to fight for, I will and I will suggest
it in many different ways. But I have to be
(17:04):
careful of the producers and directors. And with the studio
film there's there's so many voices and you want to
have everybody's voices heard. So what I will do in
that instance if there is a difference of opinion, and
on this movie there are two directors, so they could
sometimes have differences that they want to have. I will
(17:27):
write the cue both ways. If it comes to it.
I can't do it for the whole movie. But if
there are certain cues that we are just diametrically opposed
to it, I'll write it in two ways, and then
let's talk about it, and let's discuss the best way.
Because it is a collaboration between the filmmakers and the composer,
(17:48):
and a lot of times, and especially when I was
a young composer, I had the hubris that I knew everything,
everything I wrote was perfect and all that sort of stuff.
And I've had the luxury of time where many times
the director's right and they come up with these ideas
and it's made my music better. So I am much
(18:12):
more open to criticism, positively or negatively to make the
movie better or make the music better, because inevitably it
makes the movie better as well.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Would you say in every aspect of the creative field
when it comes to stuff like this, is that, like
one of the key takeaways that people should have is
like that ability to be able to hear other's opinions
or suggestions and things like that.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I think young composers for sure, is be open to
all different opinions and seeing what works, as long as
you have that trust with the filmmakers that we're all
in the same page, and we're all trying to make
the best scene, the best music, the best score, everything
about it. We're just trying to do the best job possible.
(19:01):
And if you have that trust, then you have to
be open to other people's ideas and make the change.
And if it doesn't work, there's twelve notes. You can
change the twelve notes to whatever whatever you want, and
if it's not making a better then make a compelling
case and listen to them.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You've worked on a lot of I wouldn't say straight horror,
but they have their horror adjacent or have elements of
some of those creepier aspects. Is that something I don't
want to say you're drawn to? But is that a
case of people in the genre like your work and
(19:39):
you get contacted or is it something that you I
don't want to say, prefer but seek out more.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I wouldn't say I seek it out. It just just
ends up that way. The people that are familiar with
your work, they just go onto these projects. And what
I love is my career. It seems like it's spaced out.
I haven't done the math exactly, but it's spaced out
between horror projects. I don't know if I would want
(20:11):
to do twelve horror movies in the same year. I
like the fact that my projects are diverse enough to
where I can go from a movie like Final Destination,
I can go to a movie that we're working on
currently with Zach and Adam. They're doing the sequel to Freaks,
(20:32):
and which is a movie I did with them. I
can't believe it's been five or six years ago. It
feels like it was just two years ago, honestly, but
with COVID and everything. So I love the fact that
I can go to those projects. And I'm working on
another project that I can't talk about right now that's
all electronic and totally different going from project to project,
(20:56):
and it revitalizes your composing gene, uh doing, doing it
from different places and uh So I'm excited to do
the next horror project, but I know it's going to
be different than what what I'm working on in Final
Destination for sure. So that's that's what what what I is.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
That's something that's key for you to not like Sometimes
I hear people talk about being pigeonholed into I'm not
just a composer, but I've seen directors that have a
couple of good horror movies or comedy movies, and then
all of a sudden, it's like you become like the
horror guy or the comedy guy, and people seem to
while as an audience member, I might think, oh, that's
(21:37):
isn't that the dream?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
That's great?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
People want you to just do it, and they're like, yeah,
but creatively, it doesn't do anything for me to just
rehash the same material over and over again.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, yeah, no, you're one hundred percent right. And the
people in my business, in the film business especially, they
like to put you in your box and whatever you've
done is who you are sometimes and it's not always
the case. I met the directors on a Disney show
called Mech x four and it was a kid's story
(22:13):
about a giant robot and super cool and all this
heroic music and whatever. And they were brilliant at that
and they did a great job with that. Now I
don't know how you make the case of oh, these
are the people that are going to do the Final
Destination franchise, but I knew working with these guys that
(22:33):
they're brilliant and they were going to do an amazing job.
And so when I did see that they were attached
to it. I knew that. I'm sure people were like,
who are these guys? And I'm like, I know who
these guys are. They're going to do a fantastic job,
and I was. I hate to say I was right,
but I was right. They really knew they hit it
out of the park and we're just so tickled with it. Yes,
(22:56):
to go back to your question that it's easy to
get pigeonholed, and that something that I've been lucky enough
to avoid because I do bounce from project to project
to project and different things because I love all aspects
of I love TV, I love films, I love video games,
and I love to tell compelling stories. And wherever that
(23:18):
path will lead me is where I want to go.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I know this question will probably it's probably like asking
somebody to choose their favorite kid or something like that.
But do you have any stand out scores that you
know as in your I don't know your rotation or
something that you would say those stick out to me?
Is something that sits atop your list?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Are you asking the scores from other people or scores
or my.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, I don't want to ask about your own work
because I know that's like a little bit okay, but
from other people's.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah, yeah, from other people. Someone asked me that the
other day, and I liked Planet of the Apes from
Jerry Goldsmith. I loved how that was just a kind
of a crazy score story that's never been told, and
I loved his use of these interesting instruments. I love
(24:15):
John Williams. You can just pretty much most most of
his scores, but Munich would be a score that isn't
always talked about that he did that I thought was brilliant.
I love James Newt Howard. I love his scores. Signs
is one of my favorite scores that he's done. But
Lady in the Water another great one. The snow White
(24:38):
it was amazing, so literally I could go on shash
Ank Redemption. I love that score. There's so much amazing
music out there.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Is that something that you do? I know, obviously as
a listener it's one thing, But then I supposed to
tie it into your career and your creative aspect. Do
you listen to a lot of music and a lot
of scores and do you.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I feel like anybody in the creative endeavored it's been
successful they're always quite interested in an experimentation with different
things and trying different things and just to see, maybe
let me try this, well that work or that sounds
a bit different, I've never heard it done that way.
Is that something that you like to do.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Absolutely? I like to do both. I do like to
listen to scores and I love to see how people
other people are figuring out the solving the problem that
I'm doing as well. But if given an opportunity, I
think trying to come up with something that's totally you've
never heard it before. I always like to do that
(25:48):
if possible, But it's not. It just takes the right
combination of things. It takes filmmakers that trust you, It
takes a studio in all these certain things that will
add up, and it's very difficult because they have their
opinions of what they want. So going back to what
I did for this movie, my demo wasn't doing anything
(26:14):
that the other movies had done before, and I just
guessed what I thought the filmmakers might like and what
I wanted to hear as a fan for Final Destination,
and I did it right. So the sound wasn't experimental,
but it was a new theme, and so the melody
was something that was going to carry the franchise at
(26:35):
least this movie, hopefully other movies as well. Lord, that
would be great if it did that as well.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Is it difficult for you?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Because I feel it? And I said this at the start,
For a lot of people, I think they don't realize
the importance of the music. I think is your your
average cinemagoer or quote unquote movie lover, A lot of
people actually don't realize. And I would say up until
a few years back, I probably didn't until I had
the chance to watch certain projects before they had any
(27:12):
music or anything, and I was like, Wow, this is
like a very weird, strange experience. And then realizing that, Okay,
while I'm seeing whatever I'm seeing on screen without that score,
I'm probably not feeling the emotions good or bad at all. Really,
I'm not really connecting with anything. Is it bittersweet for
(27:32):
you to know that a lot of what you're doing
is helping to elicit those reactions from the audience, But
then also maybe a lot of people not even realizing
that that's what's helping to do that.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Have it? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I mean there's been definitely times where you get overlooked
with on projects and people say, oh, I liked the soundtrack,
and then what they do is they describe the soundtrack
is all the songs that played through it, and that's
very standard. So they're not really talking about the underscore.
(28:07):
They're talking about the songs. Oh I loved how spearing
the Sky came in or whatever like that, but they're
not talking about the evocative film music that's on underneath
all that that's given, that's really driving the movie. So
I've learned that for one of the things other composers
(28:27):
that we all talk about. If there is a review
and they talk about music a lot of times, it's
not good. If they mentioned the music, generally speaking, nine
times out of ten, it's they say something bad about it,
and you're right, one hundred percent. We are overlooked as composers.
But save for this movie, Final Destination, there's a scene
(28:51):
where Tony Todd says it's farewells and it's his last
scene as an actor because he perished and we knew
that he would going to die very very soon, and
he died between me writing that scene and when I
recorded it, So there was this emotional moment that we
(29:13):
all had. And when people talk about the movie and
when I read the reviews, people talk about, oh, this
is an incredibly moving scene. And I know what they're
saying is the music is perfect. They're not saying that,
but they in between, if you read in between the lines,
that I did exactly what I was supposed to do,
(29:34):
and I can take a I get a gold star
for that one that I did what I was supposed
to do. So I feel very I feel I feel blessed,
and I'm supposed to make them feel things. It's hard
for people that unless you have that experience like you
did when seeing a movie without the music beforehand, without
any music on it, then you don't know any any better.
(29:57):
And it's almost just like, you know, taking away this
sound effects of a waterfowl or ocean, and and then
if it wasn't there, it would be strange. And having
that experience, I think really helped you identify that music
is important, and it's very important. And the people on
my side of it, the filmmakers, they all know that
and they they music is right at the top of
(30:20):
their list of having it getting it just right, and
so I'm grateful that they they know the power of music,
and over time, I'm sure people will learn. You're going
to get some people that will never understand it, and
that's fine too.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Would you say for aspiring composers, is that a takeaway
not to take that the heart? And also, is there
anything I know it's it's quite a generic and a
broad question, but a piece of advice that you would
give to somebody who maybe loves loves music, loves the
I don't want to say the idea, but they feel
(30:57):
like that this is their their creative outlest and something
they want to do and follow. What would you say
to somebody now who's trying to pursue that passion.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Is study your craft and really listen to as many scores,
listen to as much classical music, listen to as much
music period. You can take inspiration from anything that you
listen to. What would it sound like if you had
a jazz sound and a hip hop beat and a
(31:34):
orchestra score. I don't know, but these are things that
you can try and create your own sound. Because there
is nothing but amazing music made throughout the whole world,
every country, every place in the world. So you can
take inspiration from anything and you can take it from
nature too, you can. Nature has its own beautiful music,
(31:57):
and some of it is silence silences music in its
inverse way, and sometimes that's an important thing too to
add in your music. So there's there's so many different
things that you can be inspired to inspired by. So
I would just just be open to just about anything.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I have just one or two more kind of quick
fire questions before I let you go. But you mentioned
earlier before the show about your Irish roots and things
like that, and just when you tied it into you
said about different different types of music, different styles of music.
Is that something you do, Let's say, for example, when
you visit back here in Ireland. Is it something where
(32:37):
that creative brain is always.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
There. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Maybe you're you're in a pub, or you're somewhere and
you hear somebody playing music. Is that something that kind
of never really shuts off that creative mind of being like, oh,
that's interesting. I could maybe do something with that.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Oh. Absolutely, That's the blessing and the curse, I would say,
in the same thing, is that whenever I'm watching a movie,
I can't turn it off. I'm always thinking about the
music and and so no matter if I'm at a pub,
maybe at a pub I'm not my brain isn't working
as much. But but I I'm always thinking. I'm always
(33:16):
thinking about it. And I had a teacher at one
point and he had I think it's called collective, forget
what it was called exactly, but he had a he
had a theory of collective. It had something new with
your genes, that it's in my genes to write Irish
music or that sort of stuff. I wrote the first
(33:38):
piece I wrote for the school I went to, which
is USC. I wrote it in three four, so it
had this sort of like Irish feel to it. And
he then he said, you're Irish, right, it said yeah,
He goes, that's why you're writing it this way. It's
because it's there's collective memory. And I don't know. I
I do find I've I've written a lot of stuff
(34:00):
in six eight and before the time. Signatures of the
Ireland are people and I love it. And yes, there
have been times I've been looking forward to trying Gosh,
how do I get attached to some of these projects.
I would love, love, love love to write a full
fall score in that style.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It's a yeah, it's an it's an interesting thing, and
it just it was something that popped into my head
when you mentioned it earlier. And to follow on from
that throughout your career, like you said, it's been quite
a broad career from video games and comedy and horror
and kids stuff, and there's all these different and a
(34:41):
lot of times I think it's hard for any sort
of creative to be able to, I don't know, not
allow themselves to get pushed into Oh, you've done some
horror stuff and we really like that, so we just
want that over and over again. Or you've done some
good comedy stuff, we just want that over and over again.
And you've been able to be so broad. Would you
(35:02):
say that now looking back having such a successful career,
And then I feel like a lot of creatives say
this about very hard to switch off that that creative brain.
Did you ever struggle in your everyday life with that?
I find like even myself at a way minuscule, tiny level,
like at times maybe I'm not as present as I
(35:24):
should be, or I get overwhelmed with if I have
a project, or if there's something that has a deadline,
I get a little bit consumed by it.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. If if I'm with my
wife and we're watching a movie and I don't like
the music at all, then I just I don't want
to watch it anymore. I want to get away. So
there is a Venn diagram with the movies and the
really good music, and those are the things that I
(35:56):
end up watching a lot of and if there is
a score, and thankfully there's not too many of these
projects that I really don't agree with that I think
the music is no good. But there have been instances
where and I don't remember what it was, was in
the nineties where they had not a Night's Tale or
something like that, but there were back in medieval times
(36:17):
and they used rock and roll music, and I'm just like,
this is just not for me. It is not I
get it. You're trying to juxtapose a few different styles
and genres together, but I couldn't get into it. So
I don't think I ever watched the end of the film.
It may be brilliant, it may have been perfect, but
I just couldn't stomach it. And even now that there
(36:40):
are there are times that throughout the years, and I've
watched a lot of different scores try different to music
elements where they would have like orchestra and rock band
together or something like that. And I have a lot
of rules of it only works if you do it
this way, but it doesn't work when that person did
(37:02):
it that way. There's there's things that just they're just
like chalkboard, nails on a chalkboard sort of thing like that. Yeah,
I definitely, I definitely I can't stand some of the
things that happen sometimes. And again, gratefully, before.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I let you go, then just a couple of super
quick questions. Where can people best support you, follow you
or keep an eye on what might be coming next?
Because I know sometimes it's hard to just outright ask
the question. We'll talk about what you're working on right now,
because a lot of times it can be under wraps
and people can't say much. But if somebody wants to
follow your jart or see maybe what's coming next when
(37:41):
you know, so, where's the best place for people to go?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
I hate to admit it, but probably Twitter and social
media is the best outlet for it. I try to
keep my website up to date, but it is when
you're behind and so many other projects and you've got
to write music. Those are the things that that fall
by the wayside quickly. I know we have a final
destination coming out. We have Freaks is going to probably
(38:07):
come out early next year. I think it's called the
working titles Freaks Underground. I have a video game project
that will be coming out in the fall. I can't
tell you anything about it. And that's the unfortunate part
of it is literally you can't say a thing until
the day it shows up on consoles, and then finally,
like you don't really have a chance to let everyone know, Hey,
(38:29):
please look at this project that's coming coming my way,
coming your way, Please look out for it. With films,
they do a much better job, in my opinion, of
giving you a few months ahead of time. And yeah,
I can't share a score with you. I can't share
some things for you, but I can tell you at
least that I'm working on it. I would say stay
tuned on socials. There's some pretty cool things coming up
(38:51):
the end of this year and the beginning for everybody.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Listen while you're watching this on YouTube, Rumble or listening
on any podcast platform, and the links will be down
below in those scriptions, and so it will be super
easy to find for tim social media's and stuff like that.
Final question I have before I let go today is
why music? Why composing? And what does it mean to you?
I know we've talked a little bit about the importance
(39:16):
of it to the audience, to the projects, to the listener,
whether they're aware of it or not, but I suppose
to flip that, what does it mean to you when
you're creating these projects? How does it make you feel?
Or what is it that constantly has drawn you back
over the last twenty five thirty years.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
I think I discussed it's a blessing and a curse
that I have music always going through my head and
being a composer was the only way that I could
let it out a little bit and it it just
is something. It feels very natural, and I feel very
(39:56):
blessed to have that ability to do it. But I
don't want it to sound like everything I'm thinking in
my head is perfect and it's beautiful and everything I
write is amazing. It takes a lot of work and
craft part of it. And there's sometimes where I'm having
a bad day and I write terrible music. And there's
some days that I am having a great day and
(40:18):
I write amazing music, and you just through the law
of averages that you do it and it all works
out evenly. But a lot of times what I'll do
is is if I'm writing bad music, I'll step away
from it. Because we talked about earlier TV shows, you
don't have a lot of time. It's the quick and
the dead, and so if you're having a bad day,
(40:40):
you're really having a bad day, there's not a lot
of time to make it up. So sooner I get
away from my keyboard or where I'm writing at that
moment and come back to it, then I will come
back to it and I will write. I will fix
that queue and write, write it better. And for people
that are having writer's block, it's easier to revise bad
(41:06):
material than it is for you to just stare at
your screen or your piece of paper or whatever it
is and just just say, eventually, I'm going to get
an idea. It doesn't work that way, at least for me.
It works like you have to try the best even
if the ideas are coming, just write them out, and
then if there's bad ideas, then that's okay. You can
change that. There's plenty of plenty of ways and plenty
(41:28):
of time to do it. Just be open to it,
and then before you know it, at the end of
the day you look back and where you started and
where you finished it was two vastly different places. And
that's just being able to have the craft and working
hard at it, because this is hard work. And I
put a lot of effort to making this sound as
good as possible. And some cues in this movie came
(41:51):
very easily, and some cues took more time, and that's fine,
and that's all part of the creative process. And I
just for anybody that wants to do it, and I
think this is true of all creative fields, is just
just work, work hard at it, and then refine it
and slowly chip away at it, and before you know it,
you're gonna have an amazing product.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
I guess I love talking to people like yourself because
it's all these years later and all these projects later,
and I can still even though it's virtually we've met,
I can still feel that that passion, that energy, And
I don't know if that's I don't know, maybe doing
what you love where it never truly dies out. But
I always find that when I talk to people like yourself.
(42:34):
There's always an energy given off that I feel like
I can go away and I'm like, Okay, yeah, I
don't feel as bad about that thing now, and I
just have to keep maybe put that away and work
on this or then I'll take this back out for something.
And I think it's just really good for people to hear.
And it's really nice because a lot of times people
can tie that maybe into their own creative outlet. It
(42:55):
may not be music, it may be writing, it may
be directing, it may be.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Photography, whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
And I've always had people message or message on Instagram
or places like that and say, I listened to X,
Y and Z and I previously hadn't heard of them
or didn't know they were involved in this or that,
and then they coment, Oh they said something in particular
that really stuck with me, and now I feel, I
don't know, revitalized.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Yeah, well, I think I think right now. There's always
a tendency in any generation to talk about the worst
parts of our society and what we need to change
and things like that. But take a step back and
look at it. We're in the golden age of creativity.
There's so many things that need creative voices, from artwork
(43:44):
to photography. Again, we can name them all. Just go
with your passion, what makes you happy, what makes it
makes you feel, Like how I feel working on the
Final destination, Bloodlines. I didn't work a day in the
last two years when I was working on it because
it was it was just amazing. Every everyone working on
it was just like it was a vacation in a
(44:04):
lot of ways because it was brilliant. And there's a
lot of ability to do that now, from YouTube channels
to Twitter, just a million things. Let your creativity flow
out of you and and just share with it to
the world. You have a great opportunity right now that's
never happened before in the history of humankind. A little
(44:26):
too deep, They're a little too small tea. But that's
how I that's how I feel. I think. I think
it's a great time.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I love I love that, and I know the audience
loved that as well. They love to hear the real side.
But I think a lot of times it's very glitz
and glam and oh it's one in a million, nobody
can make it. And I think it's nice for people
because whatever that level may be, so long as you're happy,
you're enjoying it. It doesn't you don't have to be on
the Hollywood Walk of Fame or you don't have to
go to the moon.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Read it doesn't have to be Yeah, don't kill yourself
with perfection. Start you start with him imperfection. Michael Angelo
just didn't do David right out of the bad. He
had to work at his craft. And nowadays everyone is
open to having all sorts of creative input on all
all this sort of stuff. So just find something that
(45:14):
you really like doing and and try your best at it,
and there's nothing bad that can happen him.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
It's been a pleasure. I've just followed you on Instagram,
so everybody listening needs to do that as well. The
links are down below in the description wherever you're listening
or watching this on so you guys better go and
follow him also on Instagram and Twitter. I would love
to stay in touch. I would love to revisit this
again when you can talk about some more of your
other projects, maybe later in the year or into next year.
(45:40):
And yeah, I wish you all the best. The movie
was fantastic, the score was fantastic, and I can't wait
to see us next.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Eron. I can't appreciate you enough. Thank you very much
for your time.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Class High. Stop
the CHC podcast at classharrorcast dot com at first Class Horror,
on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, or on Twitter at Class
Underscore Horror. The CHC podcast is hosted and produced by
Aaron Doyle and is an fcch production
You could run, but you can't die from the Class Hardcast.
Hunting you from the Emerald Isle, your host Aaron Doyle
takes you on a journey to the depths of horror
with exclusive interviews, horror news, reviews, and more. Tickets Please,
you were about to hunter the Theater of the mad
(00:22):
Enjoy the.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Show, so Tan, Welcome to the show. It's pleasure to
have you on. I always like to go back to
the start with guess when I'm talking to somebody, can
you remember first movie, TV show, or just something in
general that scared you?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Rono, you know what? The movie that I just thought
about was Jaws. That scare the living daylights out of me.
I live near the ocean, I go in the ocean
a lot. I yeah, Jaws was pretty much the first
one that scared the living daylights out of me. Would
(00:57):
be that'd be in one age.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
That's just how it's the anniversary, Yeah, which is a
pretty big one.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah, pretty big one. I think people used to I
think my sister used to sing the score to me,
and then I got scared and I didn't want to
go on the carpet because I I thought the carpet
was the ocean. And yeah, I was. I'm still traumatized
by it. I still I I got swimming in a
pool and I think that a shark is going to
get me, and I hear that Jaws team coming.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And that was definitely one of those movies that I
felt like that about for a long time. But somehow,
I don't know if it's like the sadistic part of
the brain or whatever, but it made me more intrigued
to see things like that.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
So you're big on Shark Shark Week on that the kind.
Oh yeah, it's good to know.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
What What was it about what you do now that first,
I guess attracted you to that aspect of the business.
Was there a pivotal point that you could look back
to and say, that's the moment I decided this is
something I would love to do.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Yeah, I don't know if there was a pivotal moment,
but it was a slow transformation. I always knew I
wanted to do something in music. From age five to
six on. I always was drawn to writing music, creating
little songs and what have you, And then in high
school doing rock bands and all that sort of stuff
(02:35):
and writing more songs, and then I got exposed to
I always knew about film scores, of course watching movies,
but I never thought about it is that about as
a career until I started looking into the background of
composers that have done that, of John Williams and other
(02:58):
Jerry Goldsmith and you can name them all. And then
I went back to what were they listening to when
they were coming up? And so I was exposed to
goose Off Holtz the Planets. I don't know if you're
aware of that symphony, and it's I could just see
every planet and how it was composed, and to me,
(03:19):
that sort of writing really really excited me. And talking
to this person, talking to that person, this mentor, and
then before you know it, I'm at a school learning
how to do it professionally.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
For people like myself who in this aspect of both
the genre and just film on that medium in general,
who wouldn't know is there a huge difference in Obviously,
you've worked in video games, you've worked in TV, you've
worked in film, that are all adjacent to each other.
I find a lot of people who like video games
(03:53):
also like movies or like TV shows or whatever, And
for you professionally, is there a huge different Obviously, I
know between each project it's going to be probably widely different.
But as regards the process of writing music or scoring
a movie versus music for a video game or for
(04:15):
a TV.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Show, yeah, absolutely. I think the one that stands out
that is probably vastly different than the other two would
be writing for TV. The schedules are much more compressed,
so you don't have as much going back and forth
with the director. So with films and video games you
(04:38):
have a long runway and you really have a chance
to flesh out the themes or to go down the
wrong road sometimes you're not. Everything that you write is
always perfect, every every single time it comes out, so
you have a way of by learning sometimes the wrong
way to do things, you find the path to the right.
(04:59):
So video games and movies to me are much more
similar than TV scoring.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Initially, when you started that sentence, I was like, oh, yeah,
of course movies and TVs are going to be the same,
and video games is going to be the odd one.
Which it's fascinating to hear that it's actually not that way.
Yeah for me, anyway, I can't speak for everybody, and
I will say this.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Old doing Supernatural for fifteen seasons and numerous other TV shows,
there's not as much of that, so it may have
evolved a little bit. The TV scoring is so good nowadays,
there's so many amazing scores that there's probably an extra
(05:43):
week in there. That it used to be only five
days to write thirty minutes of music, and that's not
always the easiest thing to do, so there would have
to be things that you would know have to do
shorthand and just do it over and over again. But
nowadays TV scoring is on par with films and video
(06:04):
games and sometimes even surpassing it.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
For sure, this is probably an extremely broad question, but
again for people who may not be well versed in
this aspect of it, because I feel like it's probably
probably the most underplayed element of anything. Like I've seen
movies before they've been scored and things like that, and
I'm like, wow, this is a completely different experience than
(06:28):
anytime I've ever watched a movie.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
And it was then it.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Started to kind of set in the importance of when
that soundtrack is added, that it's oh, okay, this is
what elicits those emotions, and this is what makes me
feel tense, or this is what makes me feel a
certain way. But for you when let's say, for example,
Final Destination Bloodlines, when that comes across your desk because
this is a potential project, would you like to work
(06:53):
on it? How does the process from I guess signing
on the dotted line to do the project to actually
start in like day one? Where do you you have
to try and dive back into the franchise? Do you
reference some of the previous scores? How does that work
for you for on this project specifically?
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I saw that Zach Lapowski and Adam Stein were attached
to the movie. I didn't know they were making a movie,
and so I saw and Final Destination at the same time.
I was very excited because I'm a big fan of
the franchise. So I reached out to them and offered
(07:39):
my services and saw, are you still looking for composers? Yeah,
we just started. We're gonna look for a composer. I said,
I think that I can write you an amazing theme.
Would you please let me write you a theme? And
if you like it, then you know great. If you don't,
then no harm, no foul sort of thing. So I
(08:00):
I tried out for the movie before I even signed
on the dotted line, and they everyone at New Line Cinema,
and the producers fell in love with the theme that
I wrote just from the get go. In that regards,
I was very lucky that I already had the sound
that everyone was looking for on the movie before before
(08:22):
they even shot the film. So I was very fortunate
that way.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Is that something that happens often where I hear a
lot of times from maybe writers or directors and stuff
they'll try and have like maybe the proof of concepts
of different things, or they might come up with treatments
for films. Is that something that in your field happens often,
where like maybe you might come up with something beforehand
and be like, hey, take a listen to this, what
(08:47):
do you think.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
I lost you? It can happen that way, for sure.
It depends on whether or not you have the sound
that they're looking for. On this instance, I felt very confident,
me being a fan of Final Destination, me already working
(09:13):
with Zach and Adam before, and I had an inkling
of what they were going to go for for this project.
I felt like the best way to do it was
to show them rather than talk about it or to say, yeah,
I know I could do the best job on this project,
so hire me. I said, let me let me, let
me show show you instead, and it really worked out.
(09:36):
There's other projects that that I've been called for that
I'm thinking my music. I've done a lot of what
you're looking for and my all my tracks are already
there and you send it and that you don't get
a callback. So it's it's amazing how that you can
be doing it for I've been doing it for now
for thirty years, and I've written so much music over
(09:59):
the years, but every project has their own unique wrinkle,
So more and more I'm trying to if possible, if
I can write. I feel confident that if I can
write some that the producers will listen to it and
then they'll like it.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Having such a long and expansive career, and I was
thinking about this earlier. Does it get as the years
go on? Does it get increasingly more difficult to have
those fresh sounds constantly be able to create things from scratch?
Does it make it easier when you are creating a
(10:36):
new sound woodin an existing IP or franchise versus everything
has to be completely original.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Yeah, it definitely. This project specifically was tricky because I'm
a big fan of Shirley Walker's original Final Destination theme
and it worked perfectly. So I had I knew they
were going to look a new theme, so I wrote
something that I felt would fit with her style and
fit with the music that's already been in the franchise
(11:08):
for the last five movies. And it worked out really
well because the filmmakers decided that we wanted to use
her theme to represent blood Worth in the movie. And
I had an instance a couple of cues where I
was playing her theme and my theme as a suite,
(11:28):
going back and forth, hand handing the notes off to
each other, and when it worked really well, and I
was just I was so blessed to be able to
use her theme for this movie.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Considering the success that that this movie has had in
the last week or two globally, I don't know if
I'm misquoting here, but I want to say it's had
the biggest box office opening. Is it safe to say
that we'll probably see more Final Destinations? And if so,
is that something that you would be interested And then
(12:00):
coming back to.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
Yes, absolutely, I would love to do it. I'll take
the second question first. Everybody who worked on this project,
from the producers Craig Perry and Sheeta Taylor to the
directors who have mentioned to the heads of the studio
they have been brilliant on the project. Everyone was all
focused on the same task, and that was making a
(12:26):
great movie and bringing this franchise back to life. So
for me, it was a dream to work on. And
if number seven they decide to make, I would I
would be very interested in doing it, of course. And
I don't know anything behind the scenes for sure. I
(12:47):
did me see Today's Tuesday yesterday. I know there was
talks of possibly meetings, but because of the global you know,
clamoring for for the movie, so we feel like maybe
there's something there and and if you and if you've
watched the movie, I don't know if you've watched it,
(13:07):
but this puts a pretty good bookend to the prior
five movies and it really wraps up the story. So
there is a a universe where we can just start
from scratch and just start another story up about this
and death has wicked ways, and I think we should
give give the people what they want.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Would that be exciting for you in your role in
the sense of maybe if we start a new a
new storyline, would in maybe a similar universe or whatever
it might be. This you can go completely wherever you
like create creatively.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Oh absolutely, you love to have those abilities. There's times
in the score that you're you're you're you're always writing
to picture and you have these great ideas, but the
picture is only say a minute and a half. The
piece of music that you wrote was three minutes that
(14:07):
you know that it could extend and do variations and
all this beautiful stuff. But if it's not on the screen,
you can't write it. So I'm really happy with it's
on my soundtrack. The first track on the soundtrack, it's
called Bloodlines, and that was the last weeks of music
I wrote. At the very end, we had this great
(14:30):
end titles sequence. In the prior movies they did the
main titles in the beginning of the movie, and in
this movie they decided to do it at the end.
So I had my one chance to really shine and
put the main theme how I really wanted it to
play out, and the variations and things, and I wasn't
(14:51):
beholden to the video so much at that point. So
to me, if you can listen to the soundtrack, that's
my favorite piece, and that was the one time that
I got to write exactly what I wanted to write
for the movie.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And I know, obviously we're focusing on this because it's
it's current right now, but I guess this would apply
to any experience you've had with this. What is it
like when you actually finally get to I would imagine
maybe in a theater, it's probably even better when you
get the chance to sit down in a room full
of people who are excited for this and you get
(15:27):
to see it for the first time in that experience
as it was intended.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Well, yeah, it's great. It's always It's always a treat
when you can do it because you think you've seen
it on your small screen and you've written the music,
and then when you see it getting larger, larger, and
having the audience respond to different parts that you didn't
maybe respond to, and it's really gratifying. And this movie,
(15:56):
for me, I thought was so interesting. We call it
a horror movie, and it is a horror movie, but
at the same time, it's so funny and the audience
really is cracking up. It's it's is it a horror
movie with comedy or is it a comedy movie with horror?
I don't know. I think you should go see it
and decide if you haven't thought about it. But it's uh,
it's a good time and and every time I've seen
(16:19):
it there's just new things that pop off the screen.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
When when you score a movie, do you get final
say in the sense of obviously you're the professional and
you've you've put it together the way you feel is
best suited. Is that a lock then musically or does
that go through another process maybe? And then when you
get to see the final product things could have changed.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Again. I wouldn't say a composer would ever get their
final say. It's say, if there's something that I really
want to fight for, I will and I will suggest
it in many different ways. But I have to be
(17:04):
careful of the producers and directors. And with the studio
film there's there's so many voices and you want to
have everybody's voices heard. So what I will do in
that instance if there is a difference of opinion, and
on this movie there are two directors, so they could
sometimes have differences that they want to have. I will
(17:27):
write the cue both ways. If it comes to it.
I can't do it for the whole movie. But if
there are certain cues that we are just diametrically opposed
to it, I'll write it in two ways, and then
let's talk about it, and let's discuss the best way.
Because it is a collaboration between the filmmakers and the composer,
(17:48):
and a lot of times, and especially when I was
a young composer, I had the hubris that I knew everything,
everything I wrote was perfect and all that sort of stuff.
And I've had the luxury of time where many times
the director's right and they come up with these ideas
and it's made my music better. So I am much
(18:12):
more open to criticism, positively or negatively to make the
movie better or make the music better, because inevitably it
makes the movie better as well.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Would you say in every aspect of the creative field
when it comes to stuff like this, is that, like
one of the key takeaways that people should have is
like that ability to be able to hear other's opinions
or suggestions and things like that.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I think young composers for sure, is be open to
all different opinions and seeing what works, as long as
you have that trust with the filmmakers that we're all
in the same page, and we're all trying to make
the best scene, the best music, the best score, everything
about it. We're just trying to do the best job possible.
(19:01):
And if you have that trust, then you have to
be open to other people's ideas and make the change.
And if it doesn't work, there's twelve notes. You can
change the twelve notes to whatever whatever you want, and
if it's not making a better then make a compelling
case and listen to them.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
You've worked on a lot of I wouldn't say straight horror,
but they have their horror adjacent or have elements of
some of those creepier aspects. Is that something I don't
want to say you're drawn to? But is that a
case of people in the genre like your work and
(19:39):
you get contacted or is it something that you I
don't want to say, prefer but seek out more.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I wouldn't say I seek it out. It just just
ends up that way. The people that are familiar with
your work, they just go onto these projects. And what
I love is my career. It seems like it's spaced out.
I haven't done the math exactly, but it's spaced out
between horror projects. I don't know if I would want
(20:11):
to do twelve horror movies in the same year. I
like the fact that my projects are diverse enough to
where I can go from a movie like Final Destination,
I can go to a movie that we're working on
currently with Zach and Adam. They're doing the sequel to Freaks,
(20:32):
and which is a movie I did with them. I
can't believe it's been five or six years ago. It
feels like it was just two years ago, honestly, but
with COVID and everything. So I love the fact that
I can go to those projects. And I'm working on
another project that I can't talk about right now that's
all electronic and totally different going from project to project,
(20:56):
and it revitalizes your composing gene, uh doing, doing it
from different places and uh So I'm excited to do
the next horror project, but I know it's going to
be different than what what I'm working on in Final
Destination for sure. So that's that's what what what I is.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
That's something that's key for you to not like Sometimes
I hear people talk about being pigeonholed into I'm not
just a composer, but I've seen directors that have a
couple of good horror movies or comedy movies, and then
all of a sudden, it's like you become like the
horror guy or the comedy guy, and people seem to
while as an audience member, I might think, oh, that's
(21:37):
isn't that the dream?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
That's great?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
People want you to just do it, and they're like, yeah,
but creatively, it doesn't do anything for me to just
rehash the same material over and over again.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Yeah, yeah, no, you're one hundred percent right. And the
people in my business, in the film business especially, they
like to put you in your box and whatever you've
done is who you are sometimes and it's not always
the case. I met the directors on a Disney show
called Mech x four and it was a kid's story
(22:13):
about a giant robot and super cool and all this
heroic music and whatever. And they were brilliant at that
and they did a great job with that. Now I
don't know how you make the case of oh, these
are the people that are going to do the Final
Destination franchise, but I knew working with these guys that
(22:33):
they're brilliant and they were going to do an amazing job.
And so when I did see that they were attached
to it. I knew that. I'm sure people were like,
who are these guys? And I'm like, I know who
these guys are. They're going to do a fantastic job,
and I was. I hate to say I was right,
but I was right. They really knew they hit it
out of the park and we're just so tickled with it. Yes,
(22:56):
to go back to your question that it's easy to
get pigeonholed, and that something that I've been lucky enough
to avoid because I do bounce from project to project
to project and different things because I love all aspects
of I love TV, I love films, I love video games,
and I love to tell compelling stories. And wherever that
(23:18):
path will lead me is where I want to go.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
I know this question will probably it's probably like asking
somebody to choose their favorite kid or something like that.
But do you have any stand out scores that you
know as in your I don't know your rotation or
something that you would say those stick out to me?
Is something that sits atop your list?
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Are you asking the scores from other people or scores
or my.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, I don't want to ask about your own work
because I know that's like a little bit okay, but
from other people's.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Yeah, yeah, from other people. Someone asked me that the
other day, and I liked Planet of the Apes from
Jerry Goldsmith. I loved how that was just a kind
of a crazy score story that's never been told, and
I loved his use of these interesting instruments. I love
(24:15):
John Williams. You can just pretty much most most of
his scores, but Munich would be a score that isn't
always talked about that he did that I thought was brilliant.
I love James Newt Howard. I love his scores. Signs
is one of my favorite scores that he's done. But
Lady in the Water another great one. The snow White
(24:38):
it was amazing, so literally I could go on shash
Ank Redemption. I love that score. There's so much amazing
music out there.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Is that something that you do? I know, obviously as
a listener it's one thing, But then I supposed to
tie it into your career and your creative aspect. Do
you listen to a lot of music and a lot
of scores and do you.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I feel like anybody in the creative endeavored it's been
successful they're always quite interested in an experimentation with different
things and trying different things and just to see, maybe
let me try this, well that work or that sounds
a bit different, I've never heard it done that way.
Is that something that you like to do.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well?
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Absolutely? I like to do both. I do like to
listen to scores and I love to see how people
other people are figuring out the solving the problem that
I'm doing as well. But if given an opportunity, I
think trying to come up with something that's totally you've
never heard it before. I always like to do that
(25:48):
if possible, But it's not. It just takes the right
combination of things. It takes filmmakers that trust you, It
takes a studio in all these certain things that will
add up, and it's very difficult because they have their
opinions of what they want. So going back to what
I did for this movie, my demo wasn't doing anything
(26:14):
that the other movies had done before, and I just
guessed what I thought the filmmakers might like and what
I wanted to hear as a fan for Final Destination,
and I did it right. So the sound wasn't experimental,
but it was a new theme, and so the melody
was something that was going to carry the franchise at
(26:35):
least this movie, hopefully other movies as well. Lord, that
would be great if it did that as well.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Is it difficult for you?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Because I feel it? And I said this at the start,
For a lot of people, I think they don't realize
the importance of the music. I think is your your
average cinemagoer or quote unquote movie lover, A lot of
people actually don't realize. And I would say up until
a few years back, I probably didn't until I had
the chance to watch certain projects before they had any
(27:12):
music or anything, and I was like, Wow, this is
like a very weird, strange experience. And then realizing that, Okay,
while I'm seeing whatever I'm seeing on screen without that score,
I'm probably not feeling the emotions good or bad at all. Really,
I'm not really connecting with anything. Is it bittersweet for
(27:32):
you to know that a lot of what you're doing
is helping to elicit those reactions from the audience, But
then also maybe a lot of people not even realizing
that that's what's helping to do that.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Have it? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
I mean there's been definitely times where you get overlooked
with on projects and people say, oh, I liked the soundtrack,
and then what they do is they describe the soundtrack
is all the songs that played through it, and that's
very standard. So they're not really talking about the underscore.
(28:07):
They're talking about the songs. Oh I loved how spearing
the Sky came in or whatever like that, but they're
not talking about the evocative film music that's on underneath
all that that's given, that's really driving the movie. So
I've learned that for one of the things other composers
(28:27):
that we all talk about. If there is a review
and they talk about music a lot of times, it's
not good. If they mentioned the music, generally speaking, nine
times out of ten, it's they say something bad about it,
and you're right, one hundred percent. We are overlooked as composers.
But save for this movie, Final Destination, there's a scene
(28:51):
where Tony Todd says it's farewells and it's his last
scene as an actor because he perished and we knew
that he would going to die very very soon, and
he died between me writing that scene and when I
recorded it, So there was this emotional moment that we
(29:13):
all had. And when people talk about the movie and
when I read the reviews, people talk about, oh, this
is an incredibly moving scene. And I know what they're
saying is the music is perfect. They're not saying that,
but they in between, if you read in between the lines,
that I did exactly what I was supposed to do,
(29:34):
and I can take a I get a gold star
for that one that I did what I was supposed
to do. So I feel very I feel I feel blessed,
and I'm supposed to make them feel things. It's hard
for people that unless you have that experience like you
did when seeing a movie without the music beforehand, without
any music on it, then you don't know any any better.
(29:57):
And it's almost just like, you know, taking away this
sound effects of a waterfowl or ocean, and and then
if it wasn't there, it would be strange. And having
that experience, I think really helped you identify that music
is important, and it's very important. And the people on
my side of it, the filmmakers, they all know that
and they they music is right at the top of
(30:20):
their list of having it getting it just right, and
so I'm grateful that they they know the power of music,
and over time, I'm sure people will learn. You're going
to get some people that will never understand it, and
that's fine too.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Would you say for aspiring composers, is that a takeaway
not to take that the heart? And also, is there
anything I know it's it's quite a generic and a
broad question, but a piece of advice that you would
give to somebody who maybe loves loves music, loves the
I don't want to say the idea, but they feel
(30:57):
like that this is their their creative outlest and something
they want to do and follow. What would you say
to somebody now who's trying to pursue that passion.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Is study your craft and really listen to as many scores,
listen to as much classical music, listen to as much
music period. You can take inspiration from anything that you
listen to. What would it sound like if you had
a jazz sound and a hip hop beat and a
(31:34):
orchestra score. I don't know, but these are things that
you can try and create your own sound. Because there
is nothing but amazing music made throughout the whole world,
every country, every place in the world. So you can
take inspiration from anything and you can take it from
nature too, you can. Nature has its own beautiful music,
(31:57):
and some of it is silence silences music in its
inverse way, and sometimes that's an important thing too to
add in your music. So there's there's so many different
things that you can be inspired to inspired by. So
I would just just be open to just about anything.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
I have just one or two more kind of quick
fire questions before I let you go. But you mentioned
earlier before the show about your Irish roots and things
like that, and just when you tied it into you
said about different different types of music, different styles of music.
Is that something you do, Let's say, for example, when
you visit back here in Ireland. Is it something where
(32:37):
that creative brain is always.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
There. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Maybe you're you're in a pub, or you're somewhere and
you hear somebody playing music. Is that something that kind
of never really shuts off that creative mind of being like, oh,
that's interesting. I could maybe do something with that.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Oh. Absolutely, That's the blessing and the curse, I would say,
in the same thing, is that whenever I'm watching a movie,
I can't turn it off. I'm always thinking about the
music and and so no matter if I'm at a pub,
maybe at a pub I'm not my brain isn't working
as much. But but I I'm always thinking. I'm always
(33:16):
thinking about it. And I had a teacher at one
point and he had I think it's called collective, forget
what it was called exactly, but he had a he
had a theory of collective. It had something new with
your genes, that it's in my genes to write Irish
music or that sort of stuff. I wrote the first
(33:38):
piece I wrote for the school I went to, which
is USC. I wrote it in three four, so it
had this sort of like Irish feel to it. And
he then he said, you're Irish, right, it said yeah,
He goes, that's why you're writing it this way. It's
because it's there's collective memory. And I don't know. I
I do find I've I've written a lot of stuff
(34:00):
in six eight and before the time. Signatures of the
Ireland are people and I love it. And yes, there
have been times I've been looking forward to trying Gosh,
how do I get attached to some of these projects.
I would love, love, love love to write a full
fall score in that style.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It's a yeah, it's an it's an interesting thing, and
it just it was something that popped into my head
when you mentioned it earlier. And to follow on from
that throughout your career, like you said, it's been quite
a broad career from video games and comedy and horror
and kids stuff, and there's all these different and a
(34:41):
lot of times I think it's hard for any sort
of creative to be able to, I don't know, not
allow themselves to get pushed into Oh, you've done some
horror stuff and we really like that, so we just
want that over and over again. Or you've done some
good comedy stuff, we just want that over and over again.
And you've been able to be so broad. Would you
(35:02):
say that now looking back having such a successful career,
And then I feel like a lot of creatives say
this about very hard to switch off that that creative brain.
Did you ever struggle in your everyday life with that?
I find like even myself at a way minuscule, tiny level,
like at times maybe I'm not as present as I
(35:24):
should be, or I get overwhelmed with if I have
a project, or if there's something that has a deadline,
I get a little bit consumed by it.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. If if I'm with my
wife and we're watching a movie and I don't like
the music at all, then I just I don't want
to watch it anymore. I want to get away. So
there is a Venn diagram with the movies and the
really good music, and those are the things that I
(35:56):
end up watching a lot of and if there is
a score, and thankfully there's not too many of these
projects that I really don't agree with that I think
the music is no good. But there have been instances
where and I don't remember what it was, was in
the nineties where they had not a Night's Tale or
something like that, but there were back in medieval times
(36:17):
and they used rock and roll music, and I'm just like,
this is just not for me. It is not I
get it. You're trying to juxtapose a few different styles
and genres together, but I couldn't get into it. So
I don't think I ever watched the end of the film.
It may be brilliant, it may have been perfect, but
I just couldn't stomach it. And even now that there
(36:40):
are there are times that throughout the years, and I've
watched a lot of different scores try different to music
elements where they would have like orchestra and rock band
together or something like that. And I have a lot
of rules of it only works if you do it
this way, but it doesn't work when that person did
(37:02):
it that way. There's there's things that just they're just
like chalkboard, nails on a chalkboard sort of thing like that. Yeah,
I definitely, I definitely I can't stand some of the
things that happen sometimes. And again, gratefully, before.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I let you go, then just a couple of super
quick questions. Where can people best support you, follow you
or keep an eye on what might be coming next?
Because I know sometimes it's hard to just outright ask
the question. We'll talk about what you're working on right now,
because a lot of times it can be under wraps
and people can't say much. But if somebody wants to
follow your jart or see maybe what's coming next when
(37:41):
you know, so, where's the best place for people to go?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
I hate to admit it, but probably Twitter and social
media is the best outlet for it. I try to
keep my website up to date, but it is when
you're behind and so many other projects and you've got
to write music. Those are the things that that fall
by the wayside quickly. I know we have a final
destination coming out. We have Freaks is going to probably
(38:07):
come out early next year. I think it's called the
working titles Freaks Underground. I have a video game project
that will be coming out in the fall. I can't
tell you anything about it. And that's the unfortunate part
of it is literally you can't say a thing until
the day it shows up on consoles, and then finally,
like you don't really have a chance to let everyone know, Hey,
(38:29):
please look at this project that's coming coming my way,
coming your way, Please look out for it. With films,
they do a much better job, in my opinion, of
giving you a few months ahead of time. And yeah,
I can't share a score with you. I can't share
some things for you, but I can tell you at
least that I'm working on it. I would say stay
tuned on socials. There's some pretty cool things coming up
(38:51):
the end of this year and the beginning for everybody.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Listen while you're watching this on YouTube, Rumble or listening
on any podcast platform, and the links will be down
below in those scriptions, and so it will be super
easy to find for tim social media's and stuff like that.
Final question I have before I let go today is
why music? Why composing? And what does it mean to you?
I know we've talked a little bit about the importance
(39:16):
of it to the audience, to the projects, to the listener,
whether they're aware of it or not, but I suppose
to flip that, what does it mean to you when
you're creating these projects? How does it make you feel?
Or what is it that constantly has drawn you back
over the last twenty five thirty years.
Speaker 3 (39:35):
I think I discussed it's a blessing and a curse
that I have music always going through my head and
being a composer was the only way that I could
let it out a little bit and it it just
is something. It feels very natural, and I feel very
(39:56):
blessed to have that ability to do it. But I
don't want it to sound like everything I'm thinking in
my head is perfect and it's beautiful and everything I
write is amazing. It takes a lot of work and
craft part of it. And there's sometimes where I'm having
a bad day and I write terrible music. And there's
some days that I am having a great day and
(40:18):
I write amazing music, and you just through the law
of averages that you do it and it all works
out evenly. But a lot of times what I'll do
is is if I'm writing bad music, I'll step away
from it. Because we talked about earlier TV shows, you
don't have a lot of time. It's the quick and
the dead, and so if you're having a bad day,
(40:40):
you're really having a bad day, there's not a lot
of time to make it up. So sooner I get
away from my keyboard or where I'm writing at that
moment and come back to it, then I will come
back to it and I will write. I will fix
that queue and write, write it better. And for people
that are having writer's block, it's easier to revise bad
(41:06):
material than it is for you to just stare at
your screen or your piece of paper or whatever it
is and just just say, eventually, I'm going to get
an idea. It doesn't work that way, at least for me.
It works like you have to try the best even
if the ideas are coming, just write them out, and
then if there's bad ideas, then that's okay. You can
change that. There's plenty of plenty of ways and plenty
(41:28):
of time to do it. Just be open to it,
and then before you know it, at the end of
the day you look back and where you started and
where you finished it was two vastly different places. And
that's just being able to have the craft and working
hard at it, because this is hard work. And I
put a lot of effort to making this sound as
good as possible. And some cues in this movie came
(41:51):
very easily, and some cues took more time, and that's fine,
and that's all part of the creative process. And I
just for anybody that wants to do it, and I
think this is true of all creative fields, is just
just work, work hard at it, and then refine it
and slowly chip away at it, and before you know it,
you're gonna have an amazing product.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
I guess I love talking to people like yourself because
it's all these years later and all these projects later,
and I can still even though it's virtually we've met,
I can still feel that that passion, that energy, And
I don't know if that's I don't know, maybe doing
what you love where it never truly dies out. But
I always find that when I talk to people like yourself.
(42:34):
There's always an energy given off that I feel like
I can go away and I'm like, Okay, yeah, I
don't feel as bad about that thing now, and I
just have to keep maybe put that away and work
on this or then I'll take this back out for something.
And I think it's just really good for people to hear.
And it's really nice because a lot of times people
can tie that maybe into their own creative outlet. It
(42:55):
may not be music, it may be writing, it may
be directing, it may be.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Photography, whatever it might be.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
And I've always had people message or message on Instagram
or places like that and say, I listened to X,
Y and Z and I previously hadn't heard of them
or didn't know they were involved in this or that,
and then they coment, Oh they said something in particular
that really stuck with me, and now I feel, I
don't know, revitalized.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
Yeah, well, I think I think right now. There's always
a tendency in any generation to talk about the worst
parts of our society and what we need to change
and things like that. But take a step back and
look at it. We're in the golden age of creativity.
There's so many things that need creative voices, from artwork
(43:44):
to photography. Again, we can name them all. Just go
with your passion, what makes you happy, what makes it
makes you feel, Like how I feel working on the
Final destination, Bloodlines. I didn't work a day in the
last two years when I was working on it because
it was it was just amazing. Every everyone working on
it was just like it was a vacation in a
(44:04):
lot of ways because it was brilliant. And there's a
lot of ability to do that now, from YouTube channels
to Twitter, just a million things. Let your creativity flow
out of you and and just share with it to
the world. You have a great opportunity right now that's
never happened before in the history of humankind. A little
(44:26):
too deep, They're a little too small tea. But that's
how I that's how I feel. I think. I think
it's a great time.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
I love I love that, and I know the audience
loved that as well. They love to hear the real side.
But I think a lot of times it's very glitz
and glam and oh it's one in a million, nobody
can make it. And I think it's nice for people
because whatever that level may be, so long as you're happy,
you're enjoying it. It doesn't you don't have to be on
the Hollywood Walk of Fame or you don't have to
go to the moon.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Read it doesn't have to be Yeah, don't kill yourself
with perfection. Start you start with him imperfection. Michael Angelo
just didn't do David right out of the bad. He
had to work at his craft. And nowadays everyone is
open to having all sorts of creative input on all
all this sort of stuff. So just find something that
(45:14):
you really like doing and and try your best at it,
and there's nothing bad that can happen him.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
It's been a pleasure. I've just followed you on Instagram,
so everybody listening needs to do that as well. The
links are down below in the description wherever you're listening
or watching this on so you guys better go and
follow him also on Instagram and Twitter. I would love
to stay in touch. I would love to revisit this
again when you can talk about some more of your
other projects, maybe later in the year or into next year.
(45:40):
And yeah, I wish you all the best. The movie
was fantastic, the score was fantastic, and I can't wait
to see us next.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Eron. I can't appreciate you enough. Thank you very much
for your time.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Class High. Stop
the CHC podcast at classharrorcast dot com at first Class Horror,
on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, or on Twitter at Class
Underscore Horror. The CHC podcast is hosted and produced by
Aaron Doyle and is an fcch production
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