Robert Shafer on Psycho Cop, His Career, and the Art of Creating Your Own Path

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You could run, but you can't die from the class
Horror cast hunting you from the Emerald Isle, your host,
Aaron Doyle takes you on a journey to the depths
of horror.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
With exclusive interviews, horror news, reviews and more. Tickets. Please,
you were about to under the.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Theater of the mad Enjoy the show.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Robert, Welcome to the show. It's pleasure to have you
on today. How are you.

Speaker 4 (00:28):
Thank you very much, Aaron, I'm great, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
I always like to go back to the start. Can
you remember your first experience with the horror genre, and
maybe just to broaden that little bit, maybe film in particular,
you know, in any genre.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
Well, my first experience with horror was when I was
a kid and I would what stay up? We had
a thing on Friday Night's Friday Night Creature Feature, and
there was all the old classics, the Bella Lago, Si Boris, Carlaw, Frankenstein, Dracula,
and so I would watch those when I was a kid.

(01:06):
And my first professional experience with horror was, of course Psychocab.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
Do you think there's a place for I've had a
lot of conversations recently with filmmakers, actors, creatives and people
always harken back to you know, those old those old
school kind of horror host shows and things like that
that would play movies and different episodes from anthology TV shows,
And do you think there's a place I know, Joe

(01:35):
Bob still has his thing with shudder and different places
like that, but right, do you think there's a place
for that nowadays? Because I feel like the more people
I talk to, people always mention that stuff, and I'm like,
surely there's got to be an open market there for that.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
Still, Oh, they still play. I mean, you know, the
scares have never changed. Scary is you know, those films
were scary and the true horror. I characterize a lot
of modern horror as gore porn because it's about killing

(02:10):
in the blood and all of that. But real scarees
are you know, For me, I always harken back to
The Exorcist and The Omen and those types of films
where it's true psychological terror, where there's demonic power at
play supernatural as opposed to you know, serial killers. Yes,

(02:36):
so those films will always play because they're classics. I mean,
my very first film was in a little comedy called
The Rosebud Beach Hotel, and I found myself in my
second scene standing across from the great Christopher Lee, who

(02:58):
did the Hammer England films. Dracula. Man was great, and
so it was intimidating. You know, there's Christopher Lee, Sir
Christopher Lee. But you know he was he was a
very imposing man. You know, he was as tall as
I am, and you know he was so regal and
carried himself as such assurance. I mean he you know,

(03:21):
he was a Special Forces soldier in World War Two.
I mean he was the real deal. So I spent
some I got to spend time talking to him, and
you know, I was a little bit of a fanboy.
I couldn't help it. It's Christopher Lee. But those kind
of guys Boris Karloff and Vincent Price and Christopher Lee

(03:42):
really informed how I wanted to attack the role of
Psycho Coop. I've always called it. Joe Vickers, Officer Joe
Vickers had what I like to call malevolent glee. He
loved his work, you know, as as unholy as it was.

(04:05):
And those guys had that same sort of panache that
you know, they relish their evil, and so that's what
I tried to bring to it that same sense of fun.
You know that the character knows that he's wicked, but
he delights it anyway in those situations.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
You know, you mentioned working alongside of somebody like Christopher
Lee and things like that, and I was going to ask,
you know about acting, was that always something that from
a very early age you wanted to do? And then
I guess to kind of further that question based off
the Christopher Lee story, it was I I don't know
if I want to call it imposter syndrome. A lot

(04:45):
of people use that term, but you know, the idea
of knowing what you want to do and having the
skill to do it, but then maybe being in some
of those positions, you know, you get a lead role
in a movie, you're working alongside somebody like Christopher Lee.
Is it at least back then, was it difficult to
kind of you know, you know, you have a place there,

(05:06):
but then it's also like, you know, God, damn, this
is this is Christopher Lee and kind of maybe I
don't know nerves setting.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
Well, the first part of your question, No, I did
not ever want to be an actor. I sort of
stumbled into it when I was twenty three years old.
I had never done any acting. I was a basketball
player and I was working as a model, and I
fell in love with an actress and I started going
to her movie sets and I realized, well, I could

(05:35):
do this, And so I went to school for three
years and learned how to be a Santa Slavsky method actor.
And so, you know, when I got the first role,
I was very confident. You know, I never suffered from
a lack of confidence in my ability because I was trained,

(05:56):
and you know, I was self sured. And you know,
that's what it takes, really, is that undying belief in
your own powers. I mean there's certainly times when you
question it. You know, that's the nature of the art
is being unsure. One thing I tell young actors when

(06:22):
I speak with them is acting is really about the
absence of ego. You have to get rid of your
own ego. You can't be worrying about how you look
or how you know how people are responding. You have
to be it. And so I've always been a very
old school, as I said, method actor. And so if

(06:45):
you don't have confidence, the editor is not going to
choose your take. So that's essentially what you're trying to
do is get the editor to when he's watching the
dailies or the film now it's video, to choose your
close up. So you have to be doing something interesting.
You have to have an inner life. You can't just

(07:07):
be posing. You know, great actors, you know, you can't hide.
There's good actors and there's bad actors. Like anything else,
you know, as you say out on the pitch, there's
good players and there's bad players, right, I mean, there's
great ones and there's all levels. So I was always
striving to be the best I could be and not
worry about the externals.

Speaker 3 (07:29):
That boils down to a lot of people reach out
to me, you know when they find they find out
a certain person is going to be on the show.
With all these questions around, and like I mentioned, imposter syndrome,
I see that coming up quite a lot with people.
Another one I see coming up is dealing with you know,
maybe it's changed a little bit now, but I feel like,

(07:51):
especially in Ireland and the UK, maybe more so than
the States and Canada and places like that, we're a
little bit behind in the sense of it's very you know,
finish school, go to college, just get a desk job
or get a you know, some sort of a trade,
whether it be a plumber or a carpenter or something
like that. And then when people say, you know, I'm

(08:12):
going to be a movie director, I'm going to be
a screenwriter, I'm going to be an actor, people kind
of go yeah, okay, And then when you wake up,
what are you actually going to be? And people seem
to struggle with maybe loved ones, close you know, close
family friends. Some of them don't even realize. Maybe they
think they're protecting you by saying, like, you know, don't

(08:33):
don't do that, don't think that you can be an actor,
or don't think you can be a director. Did you
ever deal with that? And if so, how would you,
I guess respond or try to like not allow that
to define what you want to do.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
Well, if you can be talked out of your dream,
then the dream wasn't strong enough to begin with. Okay, no,
no one ever, I mean, people always said, oh, you'll
never make it or this won't happen. But if once
you're in the fight, you're in the fight. I mean,
I've seen plenty of people who thought they were ready
for the fight, but they weren't and they quit, and

(09:09):
you know, they fell by the wayside. I mean, all
there were people in my classes when I was a
young actor. You know, they had the dream, but they
didn't have the wherewithal, they didn't have the staying power,
they didn't do the work. It's all about the work
if you're willing to do the work, which means in

(09:31):
acting especially, you have to if you want to conquer
Hollywood or Broadway or anywhere that you get in front
of a camera or in front of an audience. You
can't have fear. I mean, you know, you always have
it right before you go on stage. Right, Oh my god,

(09:53):
am I going to remember my lines? You know what
happens here or what happens there. But that's temporary, that's
only for them all. No, it's you have to be
willing to forsake everything else and just be totally dedicated
to the vision and the craft and then get to
work and stay working.

Speaker 3 (10:16):
Would you say, obviously, I know skill and talent has
to come into it, but would you say that's probably
the number one takeaway is like a lot of people
are not able to stay the course and the idea
of it being I've had it referred to me a
lot of times. As you know, it's the ten year
overnight success. Everybody sees if something kind of pops off
and they say, oh wow, Robert, great amazing. I can't

(10:38):
believe you. You're so lucky. And it's like, you know,
I've been putting into work for the last decade, two decades.

Speaker 4 (10:44):
Yeah, it's an overnight success fent teen years later. But
the thing about it is all along the way, along
the road, you you achieve victories and you think, okay,
this is it. I've done it, and then you realize
it's a roller coaster. The ride is going down and
it's coming back up. The roller coaster never stayed. People

(11:06):
on the roller coaster never stay at the top the
whole time. Right, it's gonna dip an ebb and flow.
So a, it's not a career, it's a life again.
The dedication to it, like I said, you know, forsaking
all others, you're you're really a slave to it. I've

(11:30):
retired a couple of years ago, so I don't have
that in my life anymore. And I was consumed by
it for forty years. I lived in Hollywood, LA. And
now that I'm not there anymore, you know, all the
things surrounding it. I mean, every day was about getting
up and getting after it and trying to make it happen,

(11:51):
and victories and defeats. I mean that's that's life itself.
So same thing applies to the profession.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
Was it difficult without obviously you know, getting extremely Parson
learned him. But I have also heard people mention the
struggle with I suppose living in reality, like when you're
so fixated on a dream and then you know, maybe
you have a partner, maybe you you know, you have
kids with somebody or something like that, and then people
seem to struggle with you know, I can't distinguish between

(12:25):
the professional and the creative version of me, and then
being able to switch that off and like you know,
tend to a partner or you know, a wife or
things like that, it becomes like a bigger struggle.

Speaker 4 (12:38):
Well, it is difficult. I mean if you look at
the children of Hollywood actors, very successful and I mean
take for instance, the Fonda family, you know, great actors,
the whole family, especially Dad, you know, but it's both
his children who became actors. They struggled with his parenting

(12:59):
because he was always away or when he was home,
he wasn't as attentive as he wanted to be. I
once had drinks with Peter Fonda at a little club
in Santa Monica and he was telling me, he said, Robert,
every time that my dad finished a film, he thought
he'd never work again. And I'm like, Henry Fonda, Henry Fonda,

(13:24):
that Henry Fonda, the great Henry Fonda. He So all
actors suffer from that. So the insecurity is built into
the system because there's, like I said, one bad movie
can ruin the whole deal, you know, or if you
have a bad attitude. I mean, recently we've been dealing
with the loss of Val Kilmer, who was a very

(13:46):
good actor, and he didn't he bucked the system. And
of course he was also known as the pain in
the ass on the On. You know, he was demanding
and he but you know, when you're at that level,
you're also you want people to respect the art. I mean,

(14:07):
there's a very famous audio tape of Christian Bale working
on a set and he loses his temper because people
are walking around while he's working and he goes on
a five minute rant. I don't know if you've heard it. Yeah,
well he's screaming and you know he's telling people. You know,

(14:27):
he's very graphic, and I've always agreed with that, you know,
when I found people trying to interrupt the process. You know,
it's obviously collaborative medium. It takes one hundred people to
make it right. Can't do it without any department. You've
got to have them all and they all need to
be first rate. So, but the moment of truth is

(14:52):
when they say action and the goods must be delivered then,
so the trick for the actor is to be able
to block out everything that's happening around them, you know,
getting the set ready, getting the lights ready, getting the
word rope ready, getting the makeup ready, getting the propsweady.
You're involved in that, but you're also still trying to

(15:14):
maintain your focus because in a minute, they're going to
go action, and that's when you have to deliver the goods.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
It was pretty early on, right in your career, well
from a I don't know from a feature standpoint, when
you came across Psycho Cop, which I know, like I
would imagine you've probably had these conversations a million times.
Why now, so I try to be a little bit different.
But when when you first read the script or I

(15:42):
don't know how that came about specifically, but what was
your reaction to I guess the character and just the
overall tone of that movie.

Speaker 4 (15:52):
It's a funny story. I submitted myself. Every week publication
came out called Backstage Weekly, and that would be the
casting notices for the week, and so I read that religiously,
as every beginning actor does. I had two or three

(16:12):
film credits and a couple of TV credits, and I
was working on the stage and I put my A
X ten in an envelope, took it to the post office,
waited a few days, and then I got a call
for the audition. Well, the audition was at the director's
house in the Fairfax District in LA which was fortunately
just a few miles from where I lived, so I

(16:33):
was happy about that. But when I got to the audition,
there was like ten guys already there waiting in the
living room and we were reading not the script, but
a famous Sam Shepherd play called True West. And so
I knew this play. I had been working on it

(16:54):
in my class. I love this play. It was done
by Ed Harris, and Randy and Dennis Wade and Philip
Seymour Hoffman and John c Riley and so you know,
it was a test this play. Sam Shepard was a
great writer and as well as being a great actor,
and so I had a big advantage because I knew

(17:17):
it and it's a very difficult play to do or
just cold read, which is what all the other actors
in front of me were doing. So it was in
his house, like I said, so I could hear. You
could hear every actor just in the audition butchering it
because it's, like I said, very difficult to do. So

(17:38):
I was sitting there going, oh, man, I'm gonna kill
this thing. And I did. And I knew immediately that
I had got the part, which is rare. You normally
they keep your guests and they don't show anything. But
I could tell that he wanted me, and a couple
of days later they made the offer. And then when
I read the script, I really got to work on it.
And you know, I, like I said, you know, I'm

(18:01):
an old school method actor. So I was building the character.
I was buying books on demonology and Satanism, and you know,
I was learning cop stuff and you know, I had
probably three months to prepare the role because the money
was there then it wasn't there. And so the funny story,

(18:23):
Aaron was the producer and the director said to me, Bobby,
maybe you should go rent the costume and go over
to the executive producer's office in Beverly Hills and see
if you can get the money. So I did. I

(18:43):
rented the costume and you know, it's jack boot and
the black leather jacket, the whole bit, the police outfit
with the fake gun. And I just showed up unannounced
that Cassie and Always' office at about you know, two
o'clock in the afternoon in Beverly Hills. And he didn't
know I was coming, and he's looking at me like,

(19:07):
what are you doing here? And so I went into
his office and you know, acted psycho and tough and
crazy for about half an hour and finally he looked
at me and he said, okay, we'll make it. So
a couple of weeks later we were in pre production
and as I say, the rest is history.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
Is that unusual too, especially for you know, a movie
like this that's it's it's a horror movie. I don't
know if I call it a straight slasher because I
think there's a lot of other elements that are there,
but for them to in the audition process to have
you or to try and I don't know, surprise the

(19:46):
auditions with something like Cole reading that versus you know,
you going in and being like, wait, I thought we
were just going to maybe read line some from the
script and now you're hit me with this.

Speaker 4 (19:56):
Well, it depends on the script. I mean, if you
know the in psych Cop, the villain Joe Vickers, he
he doesn't drive really the movie. He appears in the movie,
he's not you know, it was all the six kids
who were the protagonists. They probably read from the script

(20:18):
because there was enough of material there, but Psycho Coops
mostly one liners, you know, so you can't really string
those together. And he wanted to see a full acting
scene to see whether you could deliver you know, intense material.
And so both ways, usually you're reading from the script
or you know the material, but I've been many a

(20:41):
time where they've had something else, you know, just to
test you. And of course after the amount of time
people know you or know your work or have seen it,
you know, so it's less about you know, proving can
you do it as opposed to can you do what
we need?

Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. The character definitely has like
this bizarre kind of sense of humor, this morbid kind
of I don't know how to explain it exactly, but
there's a lot of memorable Oneliner's nerd, did you have
any creative inputs on the dialogue or was it kind
of given to you and then it was up to

(21:21):
you how you would deliver it.

Speaker 4 (21:24):
Oh, it's always up to me how I deliver it.
But you know they'll give you suggestions. I mean, on
the first one, Wallas Potts a lot of that film.
We did a voiceovery in adr where he kept wanting
me to make it sound more robotic, which was a

(21:47):
confusing direction for me. I didn't really want it to
be robotic. I wanted to maintain the comedy that because
I've always felt like this is a comedy, you know,
as opposed to a horror film. So it's funny about
the one liners in psychopap Returns the second one. It's
often been said that that character has more one liners

(22:10):
than all of Arnold Schwarzenegger's movies, which every line out
of his mouth is equip you know, I mean pretty much,
which I really enjoy doing. You know, it's a good way.
You know, the thing about being a psychopath is that
you have to be able to turn it on and off.

(22:32):
You don't run around. In other words, a band or
an orchestra does not play at crescendo the whole time, right.
They build up to the crescendo, then they come down.
They build up. That's what a psychopath has to do.
But you have to see the switch where it clicks
in to the crazy. Right. So that's really what I

(22:53):
was trying to be able to do. But no, I'm
not really interested in a whole lot of direction. I
make my choice and then if there's something they feel
is wrong, they'll tell me. But typically my first instincts
are pretty good. I've done the work. I've done that,
you know, I've built the character. I've created it before

(23:14):
I come in. I don't come in going tell me
what to do. I work with the plenty of actors
that have done that, and that always annoyed me, you know,
is they're so needy with the director. Oh is this
a good choice? No? No, I always make my choices,
and if you want to alter them then we can
talk about it.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
You know, yeah, because you mentioned having three months to
kind of prepare for the whole thing, and it just
kind of came into my head. Then did you create, like,
I don't know, maybe a backstory in your own head?
Did you make up your own lower you know, about
who you felt like Joe Vickers was behind all that,

(23:52):
maybe stuff that the audience didn't get to see.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
Sure, I mean that's how you know. First of all,
I'm in the gym every day. I had this person
trainer who was killing me. But I was working out
really hard, you know, getting as big and as I
could get because I wanted to be imposing. And also
when I was shooting it, I wasn't palaing around with
the victims. You know. I would say I to them,

(24:16):
and I wasn't spending time with the other actors. Even
at you know, lunch and dinner. I would be by
myself because I felt, you know, he's not their friend.
He's there to kill them, you know, So paling around
with everybody. I mean it's kind of like modern sports

(24:39):
teams in the NBA, for instance, they're all pals. But
back in the eighties and nineties, these guys hated each
other because they were fighting for the same thing. So
I don't want to be friends with you know when
I'm there to kill you.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Yeah, that makes sense. You mentioned Psycho couple of turns,
and I do want to get to that at some point.
But I'd also seen somewhere that you said something about
there was a five picture deal. Initially, yeah, right, and say.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
Yes, yes you are.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
Is that from the out Was that from the outset?
That was always the intention?

Speaker 4 (25:14):
Yes, well, but the thinking there. I didn't really want
to sign that contract because I was hoping it would
be a big hit and I could renegotiate it. You know,
as we went along, the producer was making sure that
he didn't overpay, he didn't have to pay more, you know,

(25:34):
it was it was purely for his benefit. But the
numbers were pretty good. It was one point two million.
I remember the day I signed it. I was happy.
I was thrilled. I thought, you know, I'm the next
Freddy Krueger. I'm going to be as this is going
to be as big as Nightmare on Elm Street and
Halloween and Friday the thirteenth, et cetera. And it didn't

(25:55):
happen that way. So we only made two of them,
but there is a third script right here on my
computer that I wrote, and so I think we're talking
in talks now about making a third one.

Speaker 3 (26:09):
Because I feel like it's something that's probably going to
get asked a million times until something is announced. But
in your opinion, why do you think, Because now, if
you look at it right, these movies have year on year,
and I'm sure you've experienced this more than anybody. Have
just gained a bigger and bigger and bigger cult follow
and there's you know, there's German media books, there's Spanish

(26:32):
media books, there's Australian media books. There's all these different
re releases and new art work and new this and
new that, and people talking about it. Why do you
think at the time it didn't resonate as well? Because
when I look at it now, I go, wow, that
fits perfectly into the era. Like he even in the

(26:52):
first movie when you're introduced to him after ten to
fifteen minutes, I feel like, oh, this guy has already
established even though I don't know anything about the character,
he already feels like one of those villains that could
sit on that Mount rochmore with the other characters.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Well, thank you for that. You know. I made a
list of the thirteen best horror villains and I was
on it with Vincent Price and Christopher Leeds. I was thrilled.
I think it is amazing that it's had the staying
power that it had, or has. I looked at They're online.
I mean, they're on you both of them are on YouTube.

(27:29):
And all the comments I read this morning, you know,
are recent their new younger generations discovering it. I think
it's appealing because we live in a sort of police world,
you know, with crazy cops, you know, stepping on people's
rights and all that, which, you know, I really hate that,

(27:53):
but I think it well, we get back to you know.
The thing that I always found interesting was that people.
I've had countless people say, oh man, when I was
a kid, I watched it on Cinemax and I was

(28:15):
so scared. It was so scary, and I was thinking,
you know, I was playing it for last for one thing,
but the presence of this the badge, you know, the
authority that the badge gives, you know, inherently, and when
I first was wearing the costume, you know, I realized

(28:37):
how the the gun on your hip changes the way
you walk, the way you talk, the way you deal
with people. You you could pull that gun out in
somebody's life right there, and then, you know, and possibly
not even to be punished for it, right because you're
operating under the badge. So that seems to me to

(29:00):
be inherently evil. Yeah, so I think that has That's
why it has the resonance that it has. And the
new script that I wrote, it's called Hip Hop Psycho
Cop and it's told from Joe's point of view, so uh,

(29:23):
it changes the you know, because the first two are
told from the point of view of the victims, and
this one is Joe going to work and we followed
Joe and he's taking iPhone calls from Satan.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
How long have you had that that idea knocking around
in your head?

Speaker 4 (29:45):
Or well? I wrote it probably four years ago, and
I've been asked many times did I want to do
another one? And I kept saying, no, I've already done it.
There's no reas and you know, the executive producer and
I aren't exactly the friendliest. And although I'm you know,

(30:09):
I'm willing to work with him again because he still
owns the rights, so I can't do anything without him.
So any deal that I make has to be made
through him. So we'll see if he's willing to play
along or wants to produce, or you know, if we
have to buy the rights. I mean, so there's many

(30:29):
ways I can finance the film, and you know, I
have people that want to do it. So we're rapidly
approaching the moment of truth. And truthfully, you know, I'm
older now, so I need to do it before it's
too late to do it. So I want to still
be able to run and you know, fight and do

(30:51):
all the things that you have to do in that part.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
Why now, like you mentioned writing the script around four
years ago, why did that feel like the right time
for you? And are you surprised that they the executive
producer wherever the rights like that they haven't tried to
do something with this, because I do feel and I
did write down on my notes that it's one of

(31:16):
those characters I think that I don't know if people
will get behind it if you don't play Joe.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
Well, here's the reason I wrote it, Aaron, is there
was an actor, a young actor, who said that he
wanted to remake it he wanted to read. That was
his goal was to remake Psycho Coop. And at the
time they had just replaced Robert England as Freddie, and
I thought, why he's Robert England still alive and the

(31:47):
guy they chose as bad as the same age, Jackie Hayley.
And so that kind of made me feel territorial and
proprietary with that, you know, that's mine. I don't want
anybody else to do it. It'd be like you old
Brenner when he was doing The King and I he

(32:08):
didn't want anybody else to be the kid, you know
what I mean. He played The King for thousands of
performances and then finally he quit and said I'm never
going to do it again, and then ten years later
he was back doing it again. So I think we
all feel that ownership of a part. And you know,
I can't see anybody else doing it. But if I

(32:28):
was going to do the third one, the fourth one,
I would write and I would call it Son of Psychocop,
and then I would give the part away to a
younger guy to play it, you know, because you really
need a guy in his thirties, you know, to kick ass.
I mean that's you know, when you're in your fighting prime.
So that guy has to be you know, kicking butt.

Speaker 3 (32:51):
He already have a potential idea for some of psychokap
if we do see that.

Speaker 4 (32:57):
Well, I would pretty much follow, you know, like so
on Frankenstein something like that. I mean, it's the same
character as just younger and he talks to dad, you know.
I mean he'd be doing the same things that Joe
Vickers does. You'd call him Joey or Joe Junior, you know,
some stupid but yeah, I mean the new conceit in

(33:22):
the Psycho Cop three hip hop psychle Cop is that
Satan gives Joe a list of people who have been
sent to Hell, and it's Joe's job to send them there, right,
and they're all guilty of something. They're not innocent innocent teens.
They're rappers and radio executives and hookers and drug dealers.

(33:48):
So they're all guilty, and so when he takes them down,
he reminds them of their crimes and why they're being
sent straight to hell.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Like I I kind of have a think that people
would be super behind that's so, what what can you
see as the you know, you said it's kind of
getting down to I suppose crunch time with having conversations
and actively pushing this thing forward. What could you see
as being the only roadblock is just the idea of
the rights, is it?

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Uh? Yeah, I mean, and that's really probably me just
making a phone call or writing a letter. And so
I'm at that point where it's time to make it
happen or not, and or maybe just sell the script.
But like you said, I really it's my baby. It's
always been my baby, and I'd like to it deserves

(34:41):
to have a trilogy at least, I mean, one more
to close the deal. And as I said, I I
really wanted it to be more in the old horror,
you know, the supernatural, you know, although Satan, you know,
you hire a great voice, you know, if James Earld

(35:03):
Jones was still alive, or you know, somebody like Morgan Freeman.
You'd pay big money to get a great voice, recognizable voice,
you know, to play that role because you never see him, right,
he's just on the phone.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
It's I don't know, I just already I'm picturing how
fantastic of like if that's all we got was like
the the the trilogy, the end cap after all these
years to kind of finish it out, and you know
it'd be your kind of like, I don't know, nod
to the character and then being able to have because

(35:39):
another thing. I don't know if you noticed, but physical
copies of these movies are very hard to come by.
It is quite a rare set of movies. I have
tried several times. So I'm an avid physical media guy,
and i have tried several times to get certain I'm
one of those sticklers where if I like something, I'm like,

(36:00):
I want that version, I want the one that was
released in this region. They're actually quite haired to come by.

Speaker 4 (36:06):
Well, especially Number one. You know, Number two returns. There
was a Blu ray release. The film was restored by
Vinegar Syndrome, which is very good company, and they told
me that they were going to do Number one. I
don't know what happened. Maybe they couldn't get the rights.

(36:27):
I don't know. I haven't talked to them, but it
should be re released. I mean when it came out
on vhs, you know, which you know that was always
in those in that era, it was always a year
after the film was finished that the VHS came out,
and so we shipped twenty five thousand units, which you know,

(36:50):
every one of those costs one hundred dollars in those days.
I mean the store, the rental store, they had to
pay a hundred bucks to get it. So you know,
it was a financial success for the producers. And so
I don't know why, but I know people do bootlegs

(37:12):
and there's edited versions and Joe Bob's you know, played
it for years and there's you know, those versions. So
it does need a Blu Ray release. The great story
erin is that when the Blu Ray came out for
Psychocop Returns Adam Rifkin, the director, and there was a

(37:38):
screaming of it in Hollywood at a very nice screaming
room that we packed. And so again, this film was
made in nineteen ninety three and we're talking about you know,
twenty ten or whenever that. I don't know when that
came out, but it was packed. And that was the
first time that we'd ever watched the film with an audience,

(38:00):
and it held up. You know, it wasn't it didn't
feel like it was an old, you know, eighties slasher
or anything. All the jokes played, all the scares were
in it the screen. I mean, after the screening was over,
a producer came up to me. He goes, oh, my god,
we should be working on Psycho Cop three. This was

(38:22):
great and I'm like, it's already done. I'll send you
the script. There was also a great moment before the film.
Adam introduced me to William Lustig, who you may know
is the creator Maniac Cop. Right, So he says, Bobby,

(38:44):
this is William Lustig Maniac Cop. And I said, oh,
it's a pleasure to meet you, sir. You know, for
the last twenty five years, people have been coming up
to me and asking me who would win in a fight,
Maniac Cop or Psycho Cop and less the Goods. And
he goes, well, said, you're looking at him.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
I uh, And that's something I don't know if you've noticed,
but like there's a lot of fans out there who
always brought that up there. We're like, why did we
never see sure Maniac Cop versus Cycle Cop. It seems
like the perfect thing that we could have done, the crossover. Yeah,
when when the first one comes out, you mentioned, you know,
twenty five thousand units on tape, which is like, you know,
back then, it's like pretty colossal money. So it it

(39:28):
done really well? Was it instantly after that? Did the
producers or the powers that be realized, okay, yeah, we're
going straight to do to do Cycle Cop Returns.

Speaker 4 (39:40):
No, it was three years later, and that was a
rough period for me because I had, you know, I
had envisioned that I had, you know, this one point
two million dollar contract. I'd gone to the can Film
Festival to promote the film and just had a terrific
two weeks and can uh you know, huge poster on

(40:01):
the Carlton Terrace where everybody went to have drinks and
I would sit right by my poster, you know. And
although France, I don't know if you've been to France,
it's an interesting place. I mean they really they really hated.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
Americans, especially It could be quite rude as well.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
Oh yeah, especially during the film festival. And also the
one thing I really hated is they don't use much
ice there. You know, I like ice when I have it,
when I have my bourbon.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:32):
But I had a great time, and you know, it
was it was a high, and then I sank right
down into a low because the film sort of disappeared.
There was the distributor of the film South the first one,
they also represented Maniac Cop, so they kind of buried

(40:53):
Psycho Cop because they Maniac Cup was the more lucrative
title to them. In fact, there was a big headline
in the hall would Reporter and variety maniacs, Who's Psycho Coop?
Because they accused us of stealing their artwork, you know,
and they were very similar the first posters. So you know,
those are things that you can't control. I mean, how

(41:15):
the distributor treats it after you've delivered the product is
you know, no, no actor has any control over that situation.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
And I suppose when did when did conversations heap back up?

Speaker 4 (41:29):
Then?

Speaker 3 (41:30):
Like you mentioned, it was one three years, Well it.

Speaker 4 (41:33):
Was three years. It was I just got a call
they said, are you come and meet the director and
the writer and we're going to start shooting. And so
Rifkin and I met at a very famous Hollywood watering
hole called the Formosa, which had you know, been there
for since the forties. I mean the place was red,

(41:57):
you know, leather booths and dark, I mean, and the
walls were all covered with Hollywood eight by tens from
the golden era of Hollywood. And you know, it was
a great place to hang out and you know, feel
connected to old Hollywood, which I've always been a fan of.
You know, that era the studio when the studios had

(42:18):
actors under contract. I mean that completely is different now
because it's all freelance. I mean there's no long term
contracts where you're going to do this many pictures and
you come up, you know, slowly building your way up.
I mean I watched a little movie from nineteen thirty
six yesterday and Betty Davis was you know, tenth Build.

(42:42):
I mean, so she started out, you know, down at
the bottom, and that's the way it was then, you know,
because it also wasn't that great for the actors, but
it also gave you a bit of security. You know,
you didn't have to go out and wait tables and
bartend do all the you know, the stay in love

(43:02):
jobs that I had to do between films.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Yeah, and I think that's another thing that's probably lost
on a lot of fans of you know, some of
your work, and something like this in particular. We like
to imagine, you know, you played Joe in Psycho Cop
and you mentioned, you know, you're in can You're everything
is great and then you're just like sitting in a
you know, a million dollar mansion and you just chill

(43:28):
out till the next phone call.

Speaker 4 (43:32):
No, it was six hundred dollars a month apartment in
Melrose and Librea, and I was bartending, you know, five
nights a week to keep a roof over my head.
But this is the thing for young actors is that
you have to keep and until you're you know, making

(43:52):
a lot of money, you have to keep the business going.
And so everything that you make in your day job,
whatever that might be, goes, it's invested back into your business.
The business is you. You are the product. You have
to sell it. You have to audition, you have to
do stage work, You have to keep hustling all the time.

(44:14):
And instead of you know, say you make a few
thousand dollars, you can't live off that very long. In
La I mean, money goes fast in La La is
a very expensive place to live, you know, so you
got to keep its constantly, have to have money coming in.
And that's not always as a professional actor.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah, is that you know, obviously, being talented and skilled
and working on your craft is one thing, but is
it also something that people should be looking out for that.
The idea of like, like you said, you hired a product,
you need to sell kind of yourself to a degree,
because I have hard stories of people saying, you know,
well this guy he's such a good writer or whatever,

(44:57):
but he just hasn't got a clue about having conversations, networking,
putting himself in positions to have interactions. He just kind
of he's really got a storytelling but just doesn't have
anything else.

Speaker 4 (45:10):
Well, you have to be able or have somebody, an
agent or a manager who can pitch it and sell
it if you can't. But you know, the amazing thing
is because I'm a writer as well, so I know both.
And that's that's one way I kept myself saying when
I wasn't working as an actor, was I was always writing,

(45:31):
trying to get a script made, trying to you know,
get this project done, you know whatever I could do.
But you have to be able to pitch it in
one sentence. The real breakdown for me, Aaron in the
process is it's weird, but people, producers and directors, they

(45:52):
don't really like to read, you know, and storytelling is reading.
If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage.
So the script is where everything starts. And the breakdown
is that all the talent agents, they have readers, and
the readers are twenty year old USC film students, so

(46:14):
their depth of knowledge of what they liked, so they're
the first barrier to get the script done is do
they like it? And will they pass on positive coverage
of the script. And so you know, to me, it's
the best producers and the best directors love to read,
you know, they're always looking for the script that the

(46:38):
story that they want to tell. You know, Hollywood's less
about storytelling these days than it is about spectacle, you know,
Marvel movies and this and that. But back in the
eighties and nineties, you know, there were lots of independent
films that told human stories and human dramas and you know,

(47:00):
movies and you can get screens. But now the way
the product is delivered is completely changed. The way it's
shot is completely changed. Now. The thing is they like
you to self tape yourself, right, so you get the material,
you put yourself on tape and you send it in.

(47:21):
You're not even getting into the room, you know. So
that's a breakdown as well, because you need to be
able to be in the room. I mean it's in person.
You can feel the power, right, you can deliver, You can,
as I like to refer to, you can shake their peaches,
because you know, you really don't know how powerful your

(47:46):
voice is or how how athletic you are. You know,
those are hard things to tell on tape. You know,
I've always I want to be in the room with
the director and the producer and the writer and answer
questions and you know, work on it. But again, that's
really not how the modern world revolves. And for a

(48:08):
time in my last few years in Hollywood, there was
a big thing do you have a big Facebook following?
Do you how many fans do you have on Instagram?
These things don't matter. You know, ultimately, it's not going
to help you sell a film. People aren't going to
run out and see a movie just because you're in it.

(48:28):
It has to be a good movie. So you know,
they're concerned about bottom line, but they're killing the bottom
line by not really going through the work of creating
the story.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
It's funny you say that, actually, because I have some
friends who are producers in the UK and they work
with some pretty big directors and decided a globe and
they were saying, like, you know, joined the pandemic and
things like that. They had a lot of obviously it
was all Zoom meetings, and they spend a lot time,
like they go to the Berlin Film Festival and pitch

(49:02):
ideas and get scripts and different things, and and then
to have to do that for several years over Zoom
and they were like it felt so cold and so
disconnected that like nobody seemed to pick up any project. Nobody.
It just was like so impersonal compared to like actually
being in a room.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Oh yeah, no, it's uh, well it is. It's antiseptic,
you know, it's uh it's it's not the way to
do it. I'm old school. I like, you know, again,
you're bringing a team together, right, One person can't do
it alone. Like when Kobe Bryant was playing for the Lakers.

(49:41):
I'm a big Lakers fan and I loved I loved Kobe,
and he was great, but he had still had to
have the other four guys out there. He still needed
the other eight guys on the bench, you know, I mean,
you can't win it all by yourself. You got to
have that team. And I've always liked a good basketball
team to be able to pass the ball to each other.

(50:02):
I mean, it's, as I said, collaborative.

Speaker 3 (50:05):
So I don't know why. Yeah, I get what you're saying.
And like you said, you know you met Adam when
when they had greenlit Psycho CP returns. I don't know
what your you know, your opinion on it is, but
in from an audience standpoint, it seems to have done
quite well. Again, Yes, you know, it leans even more

(50:30):
I think into like the kind of dark comedy. It's
quite self aware. When that released, I don't know what
it was like, you know, monetarily, how they've done financially,
What was the decision where there was no trilogy, there
was no especially if there was a five part deal
thrown out at the start. They obviously saw I know,

(50:52):
you know, there was a financial reason for doing that
as well, where like you said, they don't want to
renegotiate if the thing does really well. But obviously they
must have seen something with the idea that they thought,
you know what, we could turn this into a pretty
decent ip in a franchise.

Speaker 4 (51:07):
Well, what happened is Cassie and Always Carrie Always's brother,
you know, Carrie from Princess Bride and innumerable films. Good actor,
handsome guy. His brother was the executive producer, and he
changed careers. He quit producing films in ninety three eighty

(51:29):
ninety four and he went to work at the William
Morris Talent Agency as the independent film coordinator agent. And
so for fifteen years he worked at William Morris and
then when he quit, he started producing again. He produced
Dallas Buyers Club with Matthew mcconnaie, which he won an

(51:51):
Oscar for for Best Picture, a six million dollar film.
So he's back in the producing game. He's worked. I
believe you just did a film with Nick Balalonga, who
is Mike in Psychocopy Returns And they just did a
musical together. So that's the guy I gotta talk to.

(52:14):
But that's why the third one wasn't made because he
quit producing he became a talent agent.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Was there any like I guess that he you know,
he stepped away, But were any of the rest of
you guys, Because again I don't know what like, you know,
what conversations like behind closed doors. But I can't help
but feel like maybe that would have been the time
to try and strike and be like, you know, we
need to keep we need to do this again.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
Well, you know, if it had been up to me,
we would have we would have done one right away,
you know. But again I didn't write, I didn't write
the material, and no script was commissioned. And again it
was my jealousy that made me write a third one,
so or my ownership of it, you know, I thought, yeah,
because I kept getting fans contacted me and going where's

(53:04):
the next one? We went the third one? What's happening?
Where is it? And so finally I said, oh, I
got to take care of this. And I must say
it was a pleasure to write. Again. A lot of
it is connected to the Book of Revelations in the Bible,
you know, about the end times and the beast and

(53:25):
the pale rider, the pale horse, you know that, all
that symbology, and you know, so I was going for
a bit more old school telling.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Would you say that's the biggest push now, especially you
know all these years later the idea of finishing out
the trilogy? Will that be your best I don't know,
bartering tool to be like have you guys seen like
the reaction online and how much of a follow and
we still have thirty years later.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
It's funny the when the Blu ray came out, the
reviews were amazing. I mean, and we waited twenty five
years for those reviews, you know, when when it was
first released, Entertainment Weekly, I mean just killed us. I
mean they hated it. And you know, you get good

(54:20):
and bad. I mean that's the nature of the beast.
Some people are gonna love it, some people are gonna
hate it. That as long as you're making people feel something,
you know, good or bad, then you've done your job.
I mean, you can't please everyone, So what's the old line.
You've got to please yourself. So I think that would

(54:41):
be a good way to finish it off. But again,
son of Psycho.

Speaker 3 (54:46):
I know, right, because I feel like there's there's a
lot of mileage left in the in the time, oh, in.

Speaker 4 (54:52):
The in the character for sure, or in the in
the archetype. I mean, especially in today's modern world.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
There really is, Like and when I see some of
these other you know, franchises get reimagined and things like that,
and they you know, they have kind of successful. Like
a couple of years back, there was a there was
a Leprechaun reboot or whatever, you want to call it,
which was I remember, which was quite well received, and
there's always been talk online. I don't know if you've

(55:21):
ever seen any of this, Like you know, there's like
Psycho Cop gets mentioned obviously, Maniac Cup like versus movies,
there's like Wishmaster, we have leprech On and all those. Yeah,
at the time back then, was that like I don't know,
like in the zeitgeist, like were you guys aware of

(55:41):
like those other characters. And I don't know if it's
like a fan thing. It's just interesting for them to
come up, but like, oh, what if Maniac Cup was
against Psycho Cup or what if they teamed up in
a movie and what if?

Speaker 4 (55:53):
Yeah, no, I've heard it. I've heard it all. I've
read some of it. But you know, a funny story.
Aaron was my next door neighbor, was a graphic designer
and really talented when he worked at Sony Records as well,
did their album covers and very creative. And one day
I walked we shared a front porch together in our

(56:17):
Spanish bungalow in Hollywood, and I walked into his apartment.
He always we always kept our doors open, and I
walked in and I saw Chucky the doll and I
said to him, this is when the first one came out.
I'm like, what is that. He goes, It's it's Chucky,

(56:38):
and I'm like, Chucky, it's a doll's it is always
a killer. Well cut to years later, I was doing
a low budget it was called Turbulent Skies with Casper
van dem and Brad Duraff the actor who voiced Chucky.

(57:00):
And of course Brad Durp is a world class actor.
I mean, his first film was One Flew Over the
Cuckoo's Nest. He was nominated for an Academy Award. He
was Billy, you know, the stutterer in the film. And
so we were talking about Chucky and I was telling
him about the doll, and he said, you know, I

(57:20):
made more money playing Chucky than all the other stuff
that I did everything. And I'm like, well, good for you,
you know. So. I mean, but the irony of that,
you know, is not lost on the actor is, oh,
you can never predict how something's going to land. All
you can do is give it your best and then

(57:42):
hope that everything else falls into place.

Speaker 3 (57:45):
Would you say that the horror community are probably the
most supportive of actors and creators in that space. Like
I mean, I see some of the conventions I've been too,
a few in the States, but even all we're here
now and in the UK and stuff. Ireland is getting
their first horror convention for the first time like ten

(58:08):
years I think since the last one, because there's such
a response where, you know, they want to see the
guy who voiced Chucky, they want to see Joe Vickers,
they want to see who played And it's funny because
a lot of times it's not even people who maybe
the studios would consider relevant or social media poker. It's

(58:31):
movies some thirty years ago, twenty five years ago, forty
years ago. It's always those guys that seem to show
up on the convention circuits, and they're always the ones
with the biggest lines.

Speaker 4 (58:41):
Yeah, well, you know, yes, there's two other categories that
I would say that are just as rabid. Star trek
fans and I was on a TV show called The Office,
and so yeah, the Office fans are even and more.

(59:02):
I mean, those conventions are insanely tended. I'm getting ready
to do a couple more of those shows. I haven't
done very many horror shows. But I just signed with
a management team that handles that, and so I think
we will do some more horror film conventions because you

(59:22):
know the material. People are collectors. They want the autograph,
photo and the picture, and so I have it. Like
I said, it's a rare thing for people to have
that material. So I'm going to go out and provide.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Some do you know what, You'll probably get somebody at
some point that is definitely going to mention this or
I don't know if it's a convention that does. Are
the guys who deal with the potential for and I've
seen it happen more and more again. I don't know
if you're familiar with Clint Howard's role as the ice
Cream Man. He's going to a convention in the UK
now and this is the second year, I think think

(01:00:00):
and they finally got it over the line where they're
offering like an in costume photo where he's in his
character costume. I'm sure that you will probably get that
at some point where you'll be asked to do that.

Speaker 4 (01:00:12):
Yes, I have been asked to do that, and I
was resisting it because I didn't, you know, I only
want to put the outfit on when I'm playing it,
you know, when I'm out in public. Although when I
was in cann at the film festival, I was walking
around the streets wearing that. You know, the French police
were coming up trying to see if it was a

(01:00:34):
real gun, and you know, all that kind of stuff.
So I was walking through the old part of town.
You know, I think they thought the German SS was
back in back in France because they've got the big
boots and the leather and the whole bit. So I'm
not unopposed to it. You know, when I do the

(01:00:56):
office conventions, for instance, I wear the Bob Bands outfit
because yeah, yeah, people want to take the picture with,
you know, Bob Dance. It's not Bobby ray Schaeffer. They
want Bob Bance, so I give it to them. You know.
You know, it's twenty years I've been Bob Bance now,
so that's a long time.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
It's crazy. It's another one of those things that doesn't
seem to be dying down. That's got to be quite
gratifying personally, like behind the scenes too, you know, And
I know, like you said, like you know, you try
and remove ego and stuff, but it's got to feel good,
insight right to know that a lot of these roles
you're associated with are held in such high regard by

(01:01:39):
the fans all this time.

Speaker 4 (01:01:44):
It's a blessing because I can make people happy just
by taking a photo or just by signing something or
telling a joke. You know, I always have positive fan interactions.
I appreciate the hands, especially for the office. I mean,
you know, when I was on the show, when I

(01:02:04):
first started, that show was supposed to be canceled. I
mean it was, it wasn't gonna make it, and look
where it turned into it. It's getting bigger and bigger
every year. It's not you know, it's not less, it's more.
I mean, that's the crazy thing, because we weren't that
big a hit when we were on the air. You know,
we were in the middle of the pack. We were

(01:02:27):
on Thursday nights, and we lost every Nielsen's ratings to
Gray's Anatomy, which you know, it is a show about
a hospital, and we can never beat them. They were
always in the top five, and we were always in
the forties or the fifties audience size, right, But it
caught on because the humor is timeless, the characters resonate,

(01:02:50):
and so it's really been a blessing in a gift,
and I treasure it. You know, I'm very lucky to
have been a small part of a big thing, you know,
So I'm grateful for it. Although at the time, you know,
my competitive instinct I want more, more, more, more Bob Dance.
But I just had to take what I got and
accept it. And and so as it turns out, you know,

(01:03:15):
I mean, I have a closet over here filled with
probably seventy five different Bob Dance T shirts. And behind
me you see all the hats, and you know I
collect them because well, if not me, then who it's.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
You know, speaking of that, do you get much, especially
with the roll of Bob Vance in the office? What
are the interactions like in public? I don't know, you know,
what it's like where you are right now, but I
can't have a feel like it's so the office is
so in the zeitgeist that like, even people who think
that they're not into film and TV and stuff will

(01:03:58):
have seen the show and loved the show. And it's like,
do you get a lot of just interactions when you're
just at the grocery store or you're like out anywhere,
people going, hey, wait a second, hear that guy?

Speaker 4 (01:04:09):
Yeah, no, some but I live in a very non
Hollywood place. I live in West Virginia now, in the
in the hills, and the population's older here, and you know,
it's not so fan driven, although you know, an Office fan,
when you're an Office fan, spots you. I mean, they're
coming up. I just learned recently that there's a restaurant

(01:04:33):
about thirty miles from here that the last Thursday of
every month they had the Office Trivia Night. Well, people
were like, well, you should just go, and so I
think I'm gonna pop in on them.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
That'd be just could you imagine somebody needs to record
the reaction if you just oh.

Speaker 4 (01:04:50):
Yeah, no, I'll have a cameraman. But recently I went
to South Carolina and did three Trivia Knights in Charleston
and Greenville, and they were sold out. I mean there
were hundreds of people there, and it stunned me how
much all these people knew about the show. They knew everything,

(01:05:11):
and I mean I don't know that much about it.
You know, I'm not a fan, so I haven't watched it,
you know, twenty times like everybody else has. But I
went to Scranton, Pennsylvania, where the show is set to
throw out a baseball at the New York Yankees tripa
a farm club there and it was sold out night.

(01:05:33):
It was office night, and you know, I was a
guest of honor and I was sitting there signing in
autographs for seven innings and it was all kids. It
was all twelve year old, thirteen year old and they
would come up and have me their item and I
signed it. And I didn't know that the fan base

(01:05:53):
was kids now because when we were on TV, it
was thirty year olds, you know, forty year olds. But
now I mean it's kids who and they would go,
I've binge watched it. I've watched it ten times, the
whole series. You know, that's one hundred and eighty seven episodes,
so you know, the audience has expanded and here in

(01:06:15):
the States, I mean, it plays its own constantly. I
was watching it last night. You know, I'm a big
fan of it now because everybody was so good. I mean,
that was a true ensemble. And of course we had
our Kobe Bryant with Steve Carell, who's a comedy genius.
Really I mean so, I mean he was so gifted

(01:06:40):
in that role. A marvel at it now, how wonderful
he was.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
Yeah, it's and it's another one of those things. And
I kind of liken to especially from hearing the story
you said about you know, when it was on TV,
it didn't maybe do what was originally intended or whatever.
And then it's like just year on the year, just
finding a new audience, a new audience, a new audience
and retaining fans. It's not like it's just moving from

(01:07:08):
one to the other. It's keeping that fan base. And
I liken it to a lot of horror where things
might have missed the intended mark at the time, and
then just overtime, the community just picks it up and
picks it up and picks it up, and it appears
on tiktoks and it appears on Instagram, and it appears
on here and there, and it just it seems to
get bigger and bigger and bigger. Like I even you know,
I've seen it here when the Office might come back

(01:07:31):
on like the the Irish and UK Netflix, and they
drop like the entire show, and then for the next
you know, six months, it's at number one in like Netflix,
number one selected thing, and I think just even that
being there obviously for the younger audience, then they come
on they see, what's this show that's number one on Netflix?
Every day I turn it on and then they get

(01:07:52):
exposed to it and it just becomes like a domino effect.

Speaker 4 (01:07:57):
When it was on Netflix here it I think it
was it was had four times as many views as
the number two show, which was Friends, which you know,
ran for eleven years or twelve years, so we you know,
I mean downloadable minutes. It was billions of minutes streaming that,

(01:08:18):
you know, And there was this big fuss. All the
people were outraged that Netflix lost that because it was
acquired by NBC to put on their streaming channel Hulu
and what the peacock. So uh, you know, it was
funny because someone wrote Craig Robinson, who played Darryl on

(01:08:42):
the show, and said, can you tell Netflix to keep
the keep the show? I'm like, an actor is going
to tell Netflix this nine hundred million dollar deal? They know,
stop it stopped that I'm hundred million does.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
How does that like? Obviously what I've getting into it
too much. I don't know how much you can say
or not say. But with things like Netflix and places
like that. Is there residuals or does everything you just
get cut out?

Speaker 4 (01:09:17):
Well, no, no, it depends. Netflix is famous for not
paying residuals, but those are for the shows that they're producing.
When they buy product. You know, Screen Actors Guild had
certain rules about residuals. That was the big fuss in
two thousand and eight. The strike, the actor strike was

(01:09:38):
the producers were trying to get rid of residuals. They
didn't want to pay him. The old residual standard was
that after seven years they didn't have to pay it.
That was it. It was done. So for instance, shows
like The Brady Bunch or The Partridge Family, after seven
years those actors that was it. Now the producer owns

(01:10:00):
all the money. But at that time there was no
platform for those shows to play. Once they were off
network TV, they were done. But now all the shows
live on for edver. They're all playing at some somewhere
at some time on you know, some nostalgia TV show

(01:10:21):
and they live forever. Now the product from the fifties
and sixties and seventies is still airing.

Speaker 3 (01:10:29):
Yeah, it's funny. I spoke with John Harrison yesterday, who
was famous for working with George Romero, and you know
he worked on Tails in the Dark Side and a
lot of those things. Yeah, and he spoke about he
was telling me a story about they were a couple
of years back they were trying to close down Turner

(01:10:49):
Classic movies that the TV channel or whatever they have
where they just play, you know, when they have that
thing where one day is just all forties movies and
another day is just all movies with this actor in them.
And supposedly there was so much outrage from the audience
that they actually said, actually, do you know what, We
didn't realize there was as much interest, and I just

(01:11:11):
left it alone. So I think it does show the
staying power of a lot of these shows and a
lot of these movies. I have a couple of final
questions I want to ask you before I let you go.
After Psycho Coop Returns comes out, I know there was
no more movies made, and obviously since then, I think
the goal now would be to see your script. But

(01:11:31):
was there another script for a trilogy that you ever
heard about? Or had they not even taught past number two?

Speaker 4 (01:11:37):
No, not that I know. I don't believe it in
written one. I've never seen it. I mean, if someone
wrote it, they would have to get it to me.

Speaker 3 (01:11:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
Yeah, So no, the number three is written by yours truly.

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
What kind of tone can people expect more of the
same or are we going to go serious or are
we still going to have that humor and that kind
of like.

Speaker 4 (01:12:03):
Yeah, oh yeah, oh no, no, no, no, there's a
there's a you know, a quip, there's a there's a
one liner coming uh every time. I mean, there has
to be. That's the nature of the character. And so
I wouldn't you know, it'd be like changing Rocky Balboa.
You know, Rocky is always Rocky.

Speaker 3 (01:12:26):
Yeah, even when he hung.

Speaker 4 (01:12:28):
Up the gloves and you know, became a manager or
a trainer, he's still Rocky. So you got to keep
the core character. But there is a bit more sovereignness
to it, you know. Again, I want to go for
the old school scares, you know, the pop up the door,
all the things that you know make Coork great.

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
I meant to ask you Eario when you said about writing,
was that something that was just self taught?

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
Well, I studied a little bit of it in college.
But yes, screenwriting especially requires you know, it's a different
writing discipline than any other type because it's a format.
You know, each page is equal to one minute of
screen time, right, So there's the reason the script is

(01:13:16):
laid out the way it is, and you have to
Screenplays are about showing, not telling. Right. Theater is yfff
talking and screenplays should be pictures. Right, we see it,
we don't need to talk about it. The best films,
for instance, one of the great one of my favorite
actors is Steve McQueen of all time, right, love him,

(01:13:39):
and when he would go through a script, he was
trying to eliminate dialogue. He didn't want to say it,
he wanted to show it, you know, so he would say,
I don't need to say this, I can just do
it with a look. I mean. So that's the power
of cinema is, you know, showing not telling. So I
think a lot of films are way to talk, you know,

(01:14:00):
I mean, we don't need to have things explained, we
need to see, right, So that skill, I mean, Himmingway
couldn't do it, Faulkner couldn't do it, Fitzgerald couldn't do it.
The great American writers who took tried it. You know,
it's a different animal and so it's very difficult because

(01:14:23):
it has to be compelling to the reader at the
same time that you're locked into this format of show
not tell. So you know, it's not an easy thing
to do.

Speaker 3 (01:14:36):
Do you get a lot of time now to watch
movies or shows or do you enjoy that? And if so,
do you have any movies that I always refer to
most comfort movies, but you know, maybe something that you
revisit more often than others, whether it be any genre,
but if there was a horror movie that sticks out,

(01:14:56):
was like one that, Yeah, I've seen that definitely more
than others.

Speaker 4 (01:15:00):
Well, I mostly watched Turner classic movies, you know. I
like Robert Mitchell, and I like John Wayne and Lee
Marvin and Charles Bronson. I like the you know, old
school American tough guys, so Mitchell mostly. I mean I
watched Out of the Past the other day. I mean,

(01:15:21):
I love the Noir era. I always watched Noir films
on TCM. You know, I like the good guy, bad
guy stuff, you know, the tough guys stuff that genre.
In terms of horror films, I don't really watch that
much of the modern stuff. Like I said, I find

(01:15:43):
it too gory and too bloody. Uh, you know, I
like the Omen For instance, when that's on, I'll watch
that again. That to me is so terrifying. It still is.
Funny story is, when it first came out, I went
and watched it. It was scary, right, So I had
this girlfriend who was a little on the kind of

(01:16:05):
unhinged side. I thought, let's go see how she reacts
to it. And so the scene when Gregory Peck is
in there and he's clipping the kid's hair to find
the six six six, and you know that nurse is
coming in. You just know it and you're waiting for it.
So I was watching her watching the film, and she's

(01:16:26):
grasping the arms of the chair and when the nurse
comes in, she screams and she lashes out with her
fists and hits me right in the throat. And I
couldn't talk for two or three days because you know,
she nailed me because she was so it was recorder,
you know. But I watched that and every now and
then I'll you know, the Exorcist, I mean, there's really

(01:16:49):
evil associated with that film. You know, there were people
who died making that movie on those stairs in DC.
I mean, everybody. Well, I mean, you know when Linda
Blair's head spinning around. Yeah, I mean, it's still as
effective now as it was when it was released in

(01:17:09):
seventy two or seventy three, whenever it was. And of
course I wasn't allowed to go see it then I
was too young.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
It's funny to mention that I'm actually wearing an Exorcist
T shirt at the minute while you're talking about that.

Speaker 4 (01:17:23):
I'm actually wearing a Psycho Cop T shirt at the minute.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
Oh wow, that's much better than my one.

Speaker 4 (01:17:31):
There you go. I like the Psycho Cop T shirt.
There's one in the closet there. It says let's stay
home and cuddle and watch Psycho Cop, which I never
thought of as a movie to cuddle to, but I
guess it could be.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
I mean, look, I've heard stranger things, to be honest.
You know you mentioned Turner Classic and stuff like that.
There's definitely a staying power there as well. I think
with a lot of the older era, even farther by
than your work. I mean, for example, I visit Orlando
a lot, and you know, I spend a lot of
time in Universal and like they have the Horror Makeup

(01:18:09):
show which right, you know, and people that are fans
of that stuff go to that show several times a
day and it's the same show every time, but it's
you know, they harken back to You've mentioned a lot
of them today, you know, the old school horror guys,
the old school wake up guys, and the stuff they
had to go through for their performances. And there's something

(01:18:30):
I think about that time and about what those people
put into, not just in horror in general, into those
films that maybe doesn't resonate with some of the more
modernized things that we see nowadays. And I don't want
to hate on it, but like even stuff like some
of the Marvel movies and things, they're they're so over

(01:18:52):
sterilized and so over cg that it's just very hard
to get into it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:57):
Yeah. Well, here's the I was watching on Easter. I
was watching Ben Her, the Charlton Heston version of Ben
Her The Chariot Race. You could not see gi that
and have it be as great as I mean I
watched that night. I go how in the world did

(01:19:19):
they do it? I mean, I was listening to a
clip of Charlton Heston talking about how they had to
train the horse, the horse team to jump over the
fallen chair, you know, the chariots and the horses they
had gone down. Is that easy? No, it is not. So.
The funny thing was the golf club that I would

(01:19:41):
blown to in la I got to hang out with
his son, Fraser Heston, and so, you know, I talked
about him all the time. Heston. You know, it's not
appreciated by the modern fans. They don't really even know
who he was. But he was one of the greatest
of the great and and those films all hold up.

(01:20:01):
I mean there's one after another. I mean, there's a
great they've been her. They spent nine months shooting that.
And he wrote a book, An Actor's Life. It kept
a journal about when he was in Rome and you know,

(01:20:22):
working and making that movie. And of course he was
leaving the life of an international movie star. I mean,
it was much different then than it is now. I think,
even with all the social media and all that stuff.
I mean, these are still huge stars. But they were
huge stars because they were talented, you know. And back
to Universal. One of the most impressive things that I

(01:20:43):
ever did was whenever I would get a job at Universal,
and I would go to the Wardrobe, which is a
seven story building on the backlode of Universal Hollywood. It's
full of all the costumes from the twenties and thirties
and forties and fifties and sixties. I mean, it's all
in there. If you've been around old costumes, you know,

(01:21:07):
they have a certain smell. You know, you go in
there and you smell it. But Universal, you know, I
mean they've been how long have they been around us?
So they keep all that stuff. Although they did sell
a bunch of stuff from the office. They did an auction,
you know, people bought Michael's suit, and they bought Bob
Vance's jacket and that sign up there, the Vance refrigeration sign,

(01:21:31):
and that was smuggled. Excuse me. There were two of them,
and I got one of them. But the prop guy
you know, called me up and he said, hey, I
got one of the Vance refrigeration signs. Do you want it?
I'm like, do I want it? Of course I want it?
And he said, yeah, okay, here's the deal. You got
to take me out to lunch and you got to

(01:21:52):
be in my movie. So I said, okay, I'll do both.
Where do you want to eat? Ay?

Speaker 3 (01:21:58):
And like stuff like that. I do have some props
from some movies, but it's yeah, big, big business with
some of those. It's just crazy. Oh oh yeah, yeah,
it's and especially for you know, certain horror properties, some
of the older stuff. And then like you said, like
things like the office, like the because the community is
so invested, I think it just drives those prices into

(01:22:20):
the moon.

Speaker 4 (01:22:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:22):
On dimension of props, did you ever keep anything from
Psycho Cop? Uh?

Speaker 4 (01:22:29):
Yeah, of course I did. You have a funny story.
I got to keep the leather jacket from the first one,
and the wardrobe girl thought that she was going to
keep it. That's it. No, no, no, no, you'll have
to fight me for it. So that didn't work out
in her behalf. But on the second one, I have

(01:22:52):
the badge. It's right back girl on this show. And
the producer called up and he said, hey, hey, hey, Bobby,
have you seen the badge. I'm like, huh, well, uh no,
what badge? You mean? The six sixty sixth badge. Of

(01:23:12):
course I still got that. I'm confessing it now. I
got it, Come and get it.

Speaker 3 (01:23:17):
You were you were very clever and forward thinking. Because
I hear so many stories of back then, people just
you know, they don't take anything. They don't really they think, oh,
you know whatever, and the stuff fither goes missing or
gets thrown away, or people bring it home and forget
about it somewhere. And yeah, I hear, but that's the
more often so you you are way ahead of the
time with taking some of that stuff, the more important stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:23:38):
Might I say, well, you gotta have a memento. I mean,
who else does it belong to? The production can pay
the you know, because they don't buy it. Typically they
rent it, you know, and they have to return it,
so then they have to buy it. If you don't,
don't get it back. But on the office, you at

(01:23:59):
the end of the show, they came to us and said,
do you want to buy you know, they'll sell you
at cost the wardrobe or whatever. But you know, I
didn't really need any of Bob's wardrobe because, to be honest,
I wore a lot of my own stuff, always did
because I'm you know. The shoes especially, I always wore

(01:24:19):
my own shoes because I'm thirteen and there's nothing worse
than breaking in new shoes by the end of the day,
your feet or hamburger, you know, especially if you're running
and fighting and doing all that stuff. But no, I
mean it, you know, I'm pretty sure Sharon Stone I

(01:24:39):
read recently. I saw her do an interview where she
has the white dress from the Michael Douglas film, you know,
the famous scene where she spreads her legs and she's
not wearing any panties but that little white dress. There
were two of them, and so she managed to snag
both of those, and I guess I. For instance, on
the Office, I wore a during the fun Run episode

(01:25:02):
when there's they gave us all t shirts that said
Michael Scott's Race for the Cure, you know, cur and rabies.
And I said, I'm not wearing that. I'm not wearing
a dunder Mifflin shirt. I'll wear Advans refrigeration. And the
Word of Growth says, oh, oh, well, you know, mister
Daniel says to approve that, and so I said, well, okay,

(01:25:24):
but I'm wearing it. So I did give that away.
I gave that to a charity to auction off, you know,
but there was only one of them, you know. And
and of course Greg came back and said, oh no,
he can wear his Vans refrigeration shirt. So it was
in the show, but there was only one of them,

(01:25:45):
and so it was mine too, and I should have
kept it, but I got I was feeling generous.

Speaker 3 (01:25:50):
I mean, that's probably a good way. I hear horror
stories when people say, oh, you know, I gave it
to somebody, or somebody took it and disappeared and ended
up in the trash and all that stuff. That just
makes me cringe.

Speaker 4 (01:26:00):
Hey, I think it's time for you, Aaron, to make
a horror film.

Speaker 3 (01:26:04):
I would love to. I would love to make a
harr of fim. I'll be told you. I've spent the
last good few years having a lot of conversations with
a lot of people. But not not yet. But I
hope at some point before I go out in the
pine box or wherever I end up, that I will
have done it.

Speaker 4 (01:26:22):
Well, let me give you a couple of tips. One,
it's the villain. It's the most important thing, right, There
has to be a reason for the mayhem. So come
up with an original, good villain. And then all you
need is final draft and start writing every day, right,

(01:26:42):
three pages a day, and in not in thirty days,
you've got ninety pages. And now you've got a script,
so it's easy.

Speaker 3 (01:26:50):
I think. I think that's the And that's why I
ask some questions about writing and stuff like that with
your self taught, because I don't know whether and I
mentioned this a few times to people, and I've got
like different ring opinions back, I maybe have done that
thing that a lot of people do, like that analysis paralysis,
in the sense of like I bought screenwriting work books,

(01:27:12):
and I've bought this book, and I've bought that book,
and I've listened to this podcast, and I've listened to
this thing and that thing, and then it gets to
this stage where I feel like I'm studying the craft
more than actually doing anything right.

Speaker 4 (01:27:24):
Well, again, it's it's very simple. The script itself, especially
in final draft. It'll help you format it correctly right
so you won't be worried about format. But what does
the camera see next? That's it. So that's the shot.
What does the camera see next? And of course you
need parallel train tracks because you have to have something

(01:27:47):
to cut to. You can't just stay right, You can't
just stay on the same the same train, can't be
driving the thing the whole time. You got to be
able to go here come back here, go here, and
so so you know, it's pretty simple. You've studied enough
film to know what happens. Somebody drives up to a house,
they get out, they go in, something happens in there,

(01:28:10):
then they come out, you know, they drive away. Then
where do you go? Right, So it's pretty basic. It
really hasn't changed much since we started doing it. You know.
The only thing is the style changes or the characters change.
But you know, again, three pages a day, always keep
going forward, and after thirty days you've got ninety pages,

(01:28:31):
and that's what you need for horrors. Ninety pages. That's
ninety minutes longer than that. I mean, it's death to
comedy and horror, you know, drama and action or two
genres that you can do two hours. But distributors don't
want two hour films. They want ninety minute films because
they get to show it more times, more screenings, you know.

(01:28:54):
So you know it's not that it's not that well, oh,
you should watch the movie I made called Dick Dixter.

Speaker 3 (01:29:02):
Oh yeah, I've seen it.

Speaker 4 (01:29:04):
You've seen it?

Speaker 3 (01:29:05):
Yeah, yeah, of course, of course.

Speaker 4 (01:29:07):
Well oh, well a lot of people haven't. Uh, but
that's a send up of Hollywood, and of course we're
referencing Psycho Coop the whole time in that film. I
don't know how many references there are, you know. Uh,
but that's again doing a mockumentary. I shot that in

(01:29:28):
six days, okay, uh, But I had very talented cast,
and I had three cameras going at once, and I
don't care if they see each other because it's a documentary,
so I don't have to worry about you know, when
you're making a film, you have to worry about crossing
the axes and all that kind of technical stuff, and

(01:29:49):
you know how depth of field and all that. But
when you're shooting video cameras, you know, that's the modern
film is video, So there's some adjustment to be made,
especially in horror. Is the lighting in those you know,
it's very difficult to light with video, I mean more
difficult than film. You get a lot more in the

(01:30:11):
shadows and you know, the light tricks that you can
do with film. I mean, everybody knows that. That's why
Orson Wells and all those people always love black and white,
you know, because the shadows, the shadows.

Speaker 3 (01:30:23):
Would you say that that's probably key to to the
project because so My initial idea was I wanted I
plan to try and shoot some some shorts as like
a proof of concept. I guess, like like a mini
kind of a trailer kind of thing to use that
over here, because you know, we have, especially now, we

(01:30:45):
have quite a good like the Irish Film Board. They
do support a lot of open commers, but they do
kind of seem to lean more towards can you show
me something as well as having an idea like I
need to actually see like kind of what you're going
for the issue I found that I was having and
lots of people have mentioned to me, you know, you

(01:31:05):
look at somebody like Sam Raimi when he made Evil Dead,
like they didn't have dollies, they didn't have this, they
didn't have that, they didn't have lights, they didn't have anything.
They just it was just a bunch of people who
were really passionate about making a movie, and that's why
it resonated and that's why it was what it was.
I find it increasingly difficult though, to find people that
I'm not saying they're not out there, but that care

(01:31:26):
as much that they're willing to kind of I don't
want to say, do whatever, but like a lot of
people now will go Okay, well, well how much money
you give me? Okay, that's not enough. Okay, you know
how much money do I get for this? Okay, well
that's not enough of that? Okay, what can I do
with it? You know? And it's like, well I can't.
Like that's the whole point of we're trying to get
this thing off the ground.

Speaker 4 (01:31:46):
I well, I definitely think that, you know, five to
ten minutes short to prove your concept. But the key things,
of course are the lights. You have to be able
to light it correctly and act it correctly, which you know.
The great directors are the ones who can cast correctly, right.

(01:32:10):
I mean Greg Daniels who cast the Office. That was
his particular talent was casting, you know, because you get
the right actors, they'll deliver what you're looking for, what
you need to sell the film. So if you're trying
to make a horror film, you need to be spooky,
you need to be moody, you need the shadows, you
need the scare even in the short. You know, that's

(01:32:33):
the thing is you've got to have a jump cut
scare in there or two, you know, so it can't
be done and you say no, Dolly, that's a shopping cart.
You know, pull back slowly right, a steady cam. I
mean you r in a steady cam. I mean you
get a good You need a good operator if you

(01:32:55):
don't operate cameras. But your vision is you know what
you tell them to get you on the tape, So
go for it, write it, you know, raise the money
get you know, there's all kinds of ways to finance
now you I forget what they call them, but you know,
people there's crowdfunding sites. Yeah, you know you can do

(01:33:18):
it that way. I mean I've had many people tell
you we'll crowdfund cycle crop three, and I'm like, eh, now,
let's let's get enough money to do it correctly.

Speaker 3 (01:33:27):
That that's instantly what I thought of. I was like,
if somebody doesn't play ball, just crowdfund because I know
the audience would love that. What keeps you motivated and
inspired nowadays? Like you feel like still extremely energetic about
I mean, like you mentioned moving away from Hollywood and
kind of retire, but you still seem quite motivated and

(01:33:48):
quite inspired.

Speaker 4 (01:33:50):
Well, I'm writing my book right now. It's called What
Line of Work Are You in? Bob? Which is the
famous line from the office, my very first scene. And
so it's about every job that I ever had in
my life. And it's funny because when you contacted me,
what portion of the book am I writing right now?

(01:34:12):
Psycho Cup.

Speaker 3 (01:34:14):
You know what's really funny? After this, I was literally
going to say it to you, and I'm going to
keep this in on purpose. I was literally going to
say it to you. Have you ever considered the idea
of writing a book?

Speaker 4 (01:34:28):
Yes, I'm no, It's it's funny. I've been going slow
on it because I you know, there's no deadline, you know,
so deadlines are motivators, right, I've got to have it
by now. So there's a publisher that contacted me not
too long ago and he said we'd like that book
by September. So yeah, I've got a long way. I've

(01:34:51):
got a long I got a lot of jobs to
write about. But it's it's more a tale of not
just the work, but also the people that I've met,
you know, I mean David Bowie and Marlon Brando and
Robert Dufall and Patricia Neil and you know, Jerry West
and all these encounters that I had in Hollywood and

(01:35:14):
my interactions with him, and so you know, it's I've
always been a guy who was looking forward. I didn't
ever like to look back, you know, But now I
have to spend time reliving the past, which it believe me,
it is really wreaking havoc with my dreaming life. The

(01:35:35):
other night, I mean, I was I was under pressure
to shoot a scene in the office and John Krasinski
and I, you know, we were struggling to do it.
I mean, it was really wild. But so when you
spend time, you know, thinking about, wait, this happened, that happened,
you know, it's unusual for me to do that. But

(01:35:57):
doing the shows, you know, I go out and do
a few of those every few months, and so that
keeps me busy. I hate to travel now, though I
must admit I'm not really big on flying, but you
have to and in the book and you know, maybe
getting psychle got three off the ground. And then there's
another project that I really want to do called jim

(01:36:17):
Stone Highway Patrol, which is a very patriotic film about
a highway patrolman taking down some terrorists.

Speaker 3 (01:36:28):
Oh nice, So yeah, or nowhere near the end yet then.

Speaker 4 (01:36:32):
No, no, no, there's but again I already wrote that,
so I just never sold it. But I've got some
interest in it now and because the times have changed,
you know, so we'll see what happens with you. There is,
but I won't play Jim. I'll be the you know,
the old captain and wise old captain.

Speaker 3 (01:36:52):
Is there anywhere that people, you know, listening, whether you're
a fan of yours already or maybe discovering some of
your stuff for the first time, Is there anywhere that
you would like to, I don't know, push people to
or direct people where they can maybe just keep an
eye on what might be coming or announcements.

Speaker 4 (01:37:09):
Well, I'm on Facebook, but my friend limit is maxed
out right now, so but you can follow me there. Also,
I kind of sporadically put something on Instagram, but I'm
not really you know, I don't have to do that anymore.
I mean, I don't have to promote anything anymore. I mean,
so when I was in it every day, you know,
you had to promote. But I would just love everybody

(01:37:34):
to watch Dick Dixter And you know that really is
my statement.

Speaker 3 (01:37:38):
On Hollywood, that the links for everybody listen, whether you're
looking at whether you're looking at this on YouTube, Brumble
or Spotify podcast or any other podcast platform. All the
links will be down below in the description to all
of that stuff. Anyway, I would normally ask why horror,
But I feel like you're your intro and like your

(01:38:01):
your skill and talent kind of spreads a lot farther.
So I was going to ask then as well, what
does the role of Joe Vickers or what does it
meant to you now all these years later? So I
would like to ask that, like, what does the role
of Joe mean to you now looking back? And then
maybe just to finish it, you know, whitest medium, white film,

(01:38:22):
whether it's directing, writing, acting, why that in particular.

Speaker 4 (01:38:27):
Well, it means Joe Vickers was a life changer. And
you know, some parts are just gigs, you know, some
some roles are you know, forgettable. Obviously there's a lot
of them in my resume. But some things resonate, and
that one did because it changed my life. And you know,
I'm known for it, and so I embrace it. And

(01:38:52):
why film and television Because I'm a storyteller, and storytellers
have always been revered ever since men started drawing in
caves and people telling stories around the fire, you know
about the hunt. You know. So I'm a dreamer and
that's what storytellers are. We're societies dreamers, and our societies

(01:39:17):
lived through our dreams and our stories, and that's what
connects us. And so I'm proud to have been able
to have a small part of it. And you know,
people like some of it and hate some of it.
But again, we made him feel something.

Speaker 3 (01:39:32):
Well that's and someone told me that a long time ago.
It's like when people just don't care, that's when you've
got a problem.

Speaker 4 (01:39:40):
Well, when they're ambivalent, right, they can do without it.
I mean, you know, this is a true story. I
made a little film back in the day, nineteen eighty seven.
It's called Hollywood Shuffle. It's a very famous film because
Robert Townsend was a black actor who didn't want to
play pimps and drug dealers and you know, the nasty guys.

(01:40:03):
He wanted to be a superhero, but those parts weren't
available to him, right, So the movie was famous because
he made it for one hundred thousand dollars on his
credit card. He advanced all his credit cards, and that's
how we made it. But then it became a you know,
a hit, and I'm proud of that. But I realized
it took me thirty years to learn. The lesson from

(01:40:25):
that film was to make your own movie. So that's
why I made Dick Dixter. I finally went make your
own movie. Stop waiting for somebody to give you the part.
Make the part. And so that's why I say to you, Aaron,
make the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:40:41):
That's I love that advice.

Speaker 4 (01:40:43):
It's in you. You just start writing it.

Speaker 3 (01:40:45):
Yeah, yeah, I love that, and then.

Speaker 4 (01:40:47):
I'll read it. I'll read it. When you're done with it,
you'll send it to me.

Speaker 3 (01:40:52):
We'll make a deal on that one.

Speaker 4 (01:40:54):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:40:54):
Well, it's been fantastic. It's it's genuinely been a pleasure
shotting to you from a personal standpoint, from a really
selfish standpoint, other than the fact that you know, I
know people listening to this will resonate with a lot
of what you said and will enjoy from a personal level.
I want to thank you for taking your time and
being so gracious with your time. I would love to

(01:41:15):
keep a connection and maybe chat again in the future,
and hopefully if some of these projects get off the ground,
we can revisit and have another chat.

Speaker 4 (01:41:24):
Sure, but we're shooting second Cup three will have you
to the set and you can shoot some video while
you're there.

Speaker 3 (01:41:30):
I absolutely I would absolutely love that. That would be
a dream for all these years later to be able
to do that on Psychocop set. That would be crazy.
What a wild turn of events.

Speaker 4 (01:41:41):
Well, thank you very much for having me, Aaron. It's
a great privilege and pleasure to talk to you. You're
very well rounded and knowledgeable in this craft and this genre,
and I'm honored to a bit a small part of it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:41:54):
I appreciate that, Robert, and let's do it again. Let's
keep in touch. And like I said, for everybody listening
the description to our in the description, all the links
to all of that stuff will be done. But also
it'll be really easy to find.

Speaker 4 (01:42:07):
See. The other problem is if I hang out with you,
I'll start talking in an Irish sex you know.

Speaker 3 (01:42:13):
I try to I try to tone it down a
little bit for people, because I've had a lot of
people message me and go I can't understand some of
the words, and then I'm like, I feel like I
make it worse. The more I try to like over pronunciate,
it sounds well like stranger I.

Speaker 4 (01:42:29):
Did a very famous play called Hogan's Goat. Remember what
the old women in the Drowned Berenes would say when
cloudburst beat their fields to slime and the potatoes blackened
on the stalks like flesh going proud? Bad times is right,
they say, But God is good? What I saying? Have
we committed?

Speaker 3 (01:42:50):
You know what? That's Uh? I've heard somebody like different
versions of like are people trying to like take off
the the accident or whatever. Some of them I think
are really like, oh yeah, that was really good. It
wasn't like no, no, no.

Speaker 4 (01:43:06):
Well that drives me nutty about Southern accents, you know,
because I'm a student of that, and I really have
a keen year for it, you know. But you know,
I've done Russian and Irish and you know, all these
different ones, and uh, I like it's very lilting, you know,
it's very musical, and so I've always enjoyed it. I
got to get to your country to play golf anyway,

(01:43:28):
So that's one that's an ambition of mine, for sure,
you do.

Speaker 3 (01:43:32):
We have a lot of nice golf courses here, like Robert.
It's been it's genuinely been a pleasure. I could talk
to you for hours and hours more, I'm sure, and
I hope that we a chance to do that again. Sure,
but like I said, for everybody listening, all the links
will be done, a little description and yeah, it's been
a pleasure. Thanks. Wish you all the best and account
and see what's next.

Speaker 4 (01:43:50):
I appreciate it, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:43:52):
Thank you, Thanks for listening to another episode of Class Horrorcast.
Stop the CHC podcast at classharrorcast dot com at first
Class Horror, on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, or on Twitter

(01:44:15):
at Class Underscore Horror. The CHC podcast is hosted and
produced by Aaron Doyle and is an fcch production

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