April 23, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode, we sit down with award-winning Irish filmmaker Ivan Kavanagh — the mind behind haunting films like The Canal and Son.
Ivan opens up about his early life growing up in Ireland, his deep-rooted love for cinema, and the passion that pushed him to pursue filmmaking in a traditional Irish setting. We talk about what drew him to horror, the movies that shaped his imagination, and the real fears that fuel his stories.
Ivan takes us behind the scenes of The Canal and the eerie aftermath of its release, as well as his process and inspiration behind the critically acclaimed Son (2021). He also shares what continues to attract him to horror-adjacent projects, some of his dream films yet to be made, and what might be coming next.
A must-listen for horror fans and filmmakers alike.
Check out more of my content here - https://linktr.ee/FirstClassHorror
Check out Ivan here - https://www.instagram.com/ivankavanaghfilm/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/class-horror-cast--4295531/support.
Ivan opens up about his early life growing up in Ireland, his deep-rooted love for cinema, and the passion that pushed him to pursue filmmaking in a traditional Irish setting. We talk about what drew him to horror, the movies that shaped his imagination, and the real fears that fuel his stories.
Ivan takes us behind the scenes of The Canal and the eerie aftermath of its release, as well as his process and inspiration behind the critically acclaimed Son (2021). He also shares what continues to attract him to horror-adjacent projects, some of his dream films yet to be made, and what might be coming next.
A must-listen for horror fans and filmmakers alike.
Check out more of my content here - https://linktr.ee/FirstClassHorror
Check out Ivan here - https://www.instagram.com/ivankavanaghfilm/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/class-horror-cast--4295531/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You can run, but you can't hide from the class
hard cast haunting you from the Emerald Ile. Your host,
Aaron Doyle takes you on a journey to the depths
of horror with exclusive interviews, horror news, reviews, and more. Tickets.
Please you were about you enter the Theater of the Man.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Enjoy the show, Welcome to the show. Pleasure to have
you on today.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
How are you yeah, I'm good, Yeah, good to be here.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I always like to go back to the start when
I first started talking to somebody, and.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I guess for you, for you know, we get to maybe.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Horror and things like that, what first brought filmmake into
your life as a I guess as a more serious avenue.
You know, I feel like a lot of people, you know,
have dreams of being different things. But and as I
well known, I think I've heard you mentioned this before
in previous interviews, you know, coming from Ireland, a lot
of that stuff kind of feels like I think you
(00:57):
you liking the two you know, being an astronaut or
going to the move, and it does kind of feel
like that. So how does it go from I guess
a dream to reality.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, it wasn't a dream for a long time. You know.
I'm from Finglis, which is working where you was very
it probably still is very working class Dublin, you know,
and there you just you left school and you got
a job. You didn't know. Nobody had a career. Nobody
I went to school, which went to college other than
technical college stuff like that. So you're what you were
(01:27):
allowed to or encouraged to dream for was very limited,
I found, you know, and you're kind of surrounded all
this time with this kind of negativity where you could
never dream beyond your box, and if you did, they
try and bring you down again. But I always had
this love for film. You know. I was quite a
lonely kid. I hated school, I hated where I lived,
(01:47):
and it was kind of like an escape for me,
you know. I just loved the fantasy of films rather
than reality where I was at the time, you know.
And when I was about fourteen or thirteen, my mother
like a high eight video camera and I just started
to mess around with the camera. I started to edit
from VHS to VHS machine and the editing is what
(02:10):
got me first. It was that the magic of the
cut between one shot and another. It just grabbed me
and I just loved it. And then I'd make short
films with my friends, and then I'd I got a
high eight or a super eight camera film camera, and
I started to make super eight films. And when I
was about maybe twenty or twenty one something like that,
(02:32):
someone says you should send one of these films into
a festival or something, which had never occurred to me.
And it just started to win prizes and get good reviews,
and I was just encouraged to keep going, you know.
But the idea of becoming a filmmaker was just as
I said before, it was like becoming an ASTRONOMT was
so beyond my reach. I didn't even think about it.
But it was just deep love of cinema I had.
(02:54):
I just love cinema and more than reality.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I still do the same as and you know, it's
fast it for me to you know, obviously, we're both
from Ireland and I can a lot of times when
I hear you speak about that stuff, it kind of
really resonates with me because I still feel like there's
a little bit of a degree of that. Obviously we've
come on from them, but there is still a little
(03:17):
bit of that. I don't know, that old school, like
deep seeded Irish, like I, you know, go and get
a real job, would you.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, there's still that and a lot of that, especially
if you're from a working class back and like I was,
just like, you need to start saying, Okay, I need
to keep that person out of my life now, you know,
because this person is dragging me down. If I stick
around this person, they're gonna just keep me on this level.
And I want to go somewhere else. I want to
go beyond you. I want to do stuff. I just
(03:44):
I don't want what everyone else has, like an ordinary
job and stuff like that. I mean, there's nothing wrong
with that. I've worked plenty of ordinary jobs trying to
fund my early films, but it just wasn't for me.
I just I just I love movies so much, and
I just this is what I want to do, and
nothing was going to stop me. You know. So when
I started leaving certain people behind who were saying you
(04:06):
can never do that. Who do you think you are?
You know, then things started to happen for me. You know,
when you surround yourself with positive people and like minded people,
things started to happen.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Maybe for you know, the people out there.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I think there's a lot of people that listen to
this that are aspiring filmmakers, writers, or in any I
guess creative endeavor. You can kind of get a lot
of that pushback, but I suppose what advice would you
give to someone or because it does sound like you
obviously went through that, because I was going to ask
that question of like, you know, how long did you
kind of progress through that, because it can be quite
(04:38):
difficult for people. You know, someone constantly in your ear
telling you, like, you know, you know, you're a fucking idiot,
why are you doing this? Just go and get a
job in the supermarkets, you know, And it's this constant
and I think sometimes people do it from I always
used to reference it as like it was a very
irish thing. But maybe I was just doing it because
my experience was obviously coming from Ireland. But yeah, you know,
(05:00):
as the ears went on, I kind of sat back
and went a lot of people are not even doing
this from a bad place. They don't even realize what
it is that they're actually doing and they're like, you know, look,
you'll be fine here with us. We'll go to the
pub on a Friday night and Monday way back in work,
and that's just that's it.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I think it's just fanacidy. You know, you just have
to keep going, you know, no matter what anyone says,
and people are going to as you say. They don't
even know. It's because they've been brought down throughout their lives,
I think, you know, and it's just automatic reaction. You know.
Some of it might be I don't want you to
do better than me, or they feel threatened, or they
(05:36):
don't want to lose you or stuff like that. But
some of them might be coming from a good place
where they might be trying to save you pain, as in,
you know, who do you think someone like you making
movies or whatever it is your dream is, you know,
but you just have to completely ignore that, you know.
I was making films for ten years. Myself funded my
first three featre films before I got any funding at all,
(05:59):
before I started to make get a living out of it.
You know, I worked two and three dollars jobs at
a time, just buy editing equipment and my own cameras.
And my philosophy was always just concentrate on the work,
Just keep making the films and the rest will follow
and it will come during those ten years, and I
was hellish sometimes, you know, I had I was in
(06:19):
relationships with people, and some of my family were saying,
this is never going to happen what you're doing. You
need to get proper jobs, You need to get permanent
you know, vocation or you know, a career or something else,
something more achievable. But I said, no, this is all
I wanted to do. And I just kept going and going,
and eventually one of my film's feature films I May
(06:42):
called The Solution, was spotted by the head of the
RISH Film Board, a guy called Simon Perry at the time,
and he saw it at a festival in South Africa
and he just gave me a call one day and
he said, I saw your film and I loved it
so much, and what do you want to do next?
He said, you know, and for me, this is what
I always dreamed of for those ten years, you know,
and it was like it came true. What I always
(07:04):
thought was I just had to keep going, not care
what anyone else thinks, just enjoy what I'm doing, make
it all about the work and the rest will follow.
And I did and I still has since then.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
You know, do you feel like there was a shift
in maybe people's perception of you, you know, those inner
personal relationships, maybe that you were either struggling with the
people maybe pushed away. Did you feel like there was
any kind of a shift, I guess since that point,
and maybe not immediately, but when they realized, oh wait,
(07:33):
this isn't like you know, it wasn't just a one
off thing that you know, now he's done another project
and another thing, and yeah, did you find that, like
in your personal life that people were kind of maybe
changing their perception of what it was you were actually doing.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, I mean certain people dropped away, and they had
to drop away with other people. When they started to
see the films winning awards and getting good reviews and
getting some attention, they couldn't deny that I was onto something,
you know, and so they started to come around. But
it really depended on the person, you know. But my
parents came around pretty quickly, and they've they helped me
(08:08):
financially towards the beginning, you know, and I'm really grateful
for that. My sisters, my two sisters, once they started
to win a wars and stuff, they were really helpful.
You know. I requisitioned people's houses my friends' houses, anywhere
I could shoot, and if I needed extras or extra crew,
I just dragged people in, so you know, you know,
(08:29):
that was just that's what I even does. He makes films,
so you have them out and because it's so much
fun making films, and because I like to create like
a very creative, fun atmosphere on films. People liked being
involved for nominee or whatever, and you know, and we'd
all share the embrazol together and see what we were
doing and see that we were making something good. So
(08:49):
those people came around. But what other people, more negative
people had to fall away, you know, And that was
painful sometimes to cut people off from your life, you know,
but you do have to do it in order to
achieve anything, you know, because what other people are always
going to pull you back.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, And it's funny.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
And again I think that suggestion I made earlier about
I felt like it was a very irish thing maybe
sometimes to do that. And you know, I talked to
a lot of people in the UK who kind of
mirrored that same that same feeling. And it's funny because
I feel like close family members and like the people
who love you as soon as you show them that
glimmer of like, oh, you know, Ivan isn't just mad,
(09:28):
He's actually making movies. All of a sudden, there's like
this switch where everybody's like, right pilot. Everyone jump on that,
like we're gonna help, we're gonna do this, we're gonna
do that, And then other people can be quite.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Cold to that.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Do you think it's healthy to have a little bit
of I don't want to say dwelling on those people
that are.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Like, what are you doing or why or whatever, but is.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
It healthy maybe to have that in the back of
your mind and use that as maybe a little bit
of a driving force. And then I guess secondary to that,
a lot of people talk to me about him chasing
a dream like this and struggling with relationships and things,
and they feel like they can't keep it together because
a lot of people don't understand. It can be quite lonely,
and you know, you can lose girlfriend's, boyfriend's husbands, wives, kids.
(10:10):
It becomes a very difficult balancing act between the two.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I've lost relationships and everything because
of us. You know, it couldn't it couldn't be helped.
You know, I needed to do it for my for
them and for myself, and it would have been terrible
without it, you know. You know, if you have if
you really want something, you just this is all you
want to do and nothing can stop you, you know.
(10:34):
And that's kind of the driving force that you need,
almost need an unshakable belief in yourselves on what you're
doing in order to keep going. And because there is
going to be many setbacks. There still is setbacks, you know.
For me, you know, I had a film fall apart
last year. I mean, that's that was it, and I
worked three years getting together, you know, But that those
are just you need to be strong like that and
(10:57):
just keep going no matter what it trow is actually,
you know, and always concentrate on the work because that's
what's most important, you know. But I was pretty lucky.
I was in a long term relationship at the time
and that person was very understanding and stuff, and she
came around and helped out making the films as well,
and we used their apartment many times during films. So
(11:18):
but it is hard to You're right, it is hard
to maintain that because people deserve and want attention and
sometimes you just can't give it to them because you
want to make films, but you need to choose what
you want in your life. You know, if you want
to get married and have kids at that particular point,
that's you can still make films. But for me, I
couldn't have done that because my resources were limited money wise.
(11:39):
I'm the kind of person that needs to be all
in for something. I can't multitask, you know, I can't
juggle different types of lives. And I said it to
the person at the time. I said it to her.
I said, this is all I wanted to do, you know,
and if you like, you can get off this particular
train on them all, or you can come along with
me if you like, you know, And I was very
(11:59):
honest about that. I said, nothing is going to stop me,
so and that's what I just kept going like that,
and I still do.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
This is the first time I think probably ever in
all the people I've talked to, that someone has been
very straight about that. It's not I feel like a
lot of times people kind of give an answer and
then maybe kind of come back a bit from that,
and you know, because maybe they don't want to be
seen as the person to just say it out right.
(12:26):
You kind of want to dance that line between well,
you know what, you can't have ten kids and you know,
have no money and then also try and cell phone,
and which is not the reality, like you just said.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And I think it's important for people to know.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
That there's probably going to be lots of situations and
I'm sure you had it where it's not nice and
it's not comfortable and it feels like shit, then you have.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
To do well.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Maybe depends on what type of person you are at
the same time, and if you're independently wealthy or not,
you know, And I wasn't. You know, I didn't want
a boy a house. And although I was had a
mortgage on a small mortgage on an apartment of so
was sharing with someone. But I didn't want to boy
a house and I didn't want kids at that particular
that time. And I know I needed to funnel all
my money into my films and I was working jobs.
(13:04):
I need to do that, you know. But other people
can juggle that because they have the resources and the
money to do that. But I knew what I needed
to do. I need, I knew the sacrifices that I
needed to make, and I was willing to make them.
And they were painful sacrifices sometimes. You know, I could
see a lot of people like who had chosen different
parts or different paths in life, were getting you know,
(13:26):
monetary success, maybe in the jobs you're getting. But I
was saying, I just my path is slower and I
will get there eventually, and I'd rather have the love
of what I'm doing than lots of financial turns immediately,
you know. But all that did come then later on,
you know, when I started to get funding from the
films and stuff, you know, and I started to make
a living out of it. But as I said, it
was ten years.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
You know, as someone I just find it fascinating as
someone that's you know, come from like a I guess
a quote unquote old school Irish background.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Kind of speak quite matter of.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Fact, but a lot of things, I feel like you're
always kind of taught to repress a lot of that stuff.
And I think eventually, then, you know, when it does
rear its head, it's like this huge explosion and things
just go crazy. But it seems like were you did
you always have that mentality you were able to kind
of keep an even keel and not allow it to
you know, because I feel like everybody says, Okay, this
(14:20):
is what I want to do or whatever, and then
when things started to fall apart, all of a sudden,
your life spirals out of control, and then maybe the
dream falls away and you just become manic, and then
you try and claw back, and it kind of keeps
doing this dip. And I think a lot of people
that just the minute that starts to happen, it's like, oh, Okay,
that's it, and I'm done.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
If you do If you do that, you'll never because
there will be setbacks all the time, you know, and
they're huge highs and then really low lowers. And I've
been at the bottom many times, you know, but you
just have to keep going no matter what. You know.
I remember because of where I grew up, it was
very working class. I went to really rough schools, I
mean really rough, and I wasn't a rough person, you know,
(15:01):
got through it. I had friends and stuff like that,
but I wasn't cut out for the toughness of where
I went to school or where I was brought of,
you know. And I learned to just not care what
I was into. What I was into, and I didn't
care what anyone else taught, so did when I was
very young. I loved classical music. I looked twentieth century
classic music like Pender Risky and stuff, kind of the
(15:23):
stuff that you ended up using in horror movies and stuff.
And I didn't care what any of the other kids
in school, teenagers thought at school. They were into whatever
was out in the eighties, whatever, And I always had
that mentality of I'm into what I'm into, and I
don't care what you're into, you know, and you're welcome
to what you're into. So I think that's strange, that
outsider kind of strainth came from that, you know, And
(15:45):
then I was able to use that later on for
making movie. But that was kind of more like a
defense mechanism, defense mechanism for where I grew up because
it was so rough, you know, and I wasn't Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Yeah, I definitely like everything you're saying.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It just resonates with me so much. When then does
it hit the point?
Speaker 4 (16:04):
And I obviously know this is going to be an
individual answer between everybody, but for you specifically, you know,
when does the decision come like that? Okay, now maybe
I can start to have, you know, start to introduce
some of these other things like you know, having a child,
or getting a bit more serious or settling down in
a certain location. And maybe I could be completely wrong
(16:27):
about this, but is there always like an anxiety financially
about like you just mentioned you spent three years working
on a project that fell apart. So yeah, so like,
how do you know when is the right time to like, okay,
I'm okay to do this now and then obviously have
that fear of like, well the rug could be pulled
from undermade any point with any project.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, you just have to take a leap of faith.
I mean, there is not the right time to do it,
you know. I mean it is such an unstable business.
I was lucky in a way because I'm also a writer,
so I can in between movies, I can earn a
living writing and I go written many scripts with no
credit for other filmmakers as well, you know. And I've
done that, and I've written my own scripts. I've been
(17:07):
in development when my own scripts some scripts have never
been made into films, but I still got paid for
writing them. If I hadn't had that safety net of writing,
then I don't think I could have survived. But for me,
it happened when The Canal the first sort of film
with a budget. It was less than a million euros,
but it was any the first kind of budget that
(17:27):
I had, you know, when that started to be successful,
and when a premiere a Tribeca and stuff, and then
started to tour tour around the world. And where I met
my wife was at my at a festival here in
Sweden and she was one of the festival organizers and
she picked the films that were going to be on
and we just met and you know, just fell in love.
And that was the right time because you know, I
(17:50):
wanted to be with her and I wanted to stay
with her. But it just happened to coincide when I
had money and I felt completely right. And we have
struggled financially since then, but it's pretty pretty stable, you know.
And it just I didn't plan it that way. It
just happened, you know, and I happened to coincide with
the time when I was okay financially, so we just
went with it and we had two kids.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Now, what's that experience, like you mentioned ghost writing scripts
for people? Is that is that a strange experience?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Obviously?
Speaker 4 (18:17):
I know, look, you know, it's a job, it's what
you like to do. But in the sense of you know,
ghost right, you don't know, you have no connection to
the work. Basically, you just paid to write. Is that
a difficult thing to do as a creative to kind
of I don't know, craft a story of world characters
and things like that and then hand them off and
be like, well, technically this isn't mine.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
No, not really. I mean I put my all into it.
I listened to them. I listen to what they need
for me. It's usually that either they needed a dialogue, rewrite,
or structure or rewrite. It's very technical kind of stuff,
you know. I mean the scripts I get that have
ghost written in the past and I haven't done it
in a while. But when I did, it was also
always about strugg and I always polishing what was already there.
(19:02):
Sometimes I read a script that was so bad that
I couldn't have done anything with it. I would have
had to rewrite the whole thing completely. And I wouldn't
have done that because then that would have been completely mine,
you know. But if someone presents me with a script
where oh, I can see this section needs rewriting, this
section needs rewriting, they need better scares, they need some
better set pieces. Then that's okay because it's kind of
a technical thing, you know. And for me, because my films,
(19:26):
even though they might not seem like it, because some
of them are genre films, might not seem like it
on the outside, might not seem personal. They are very
personal to me, and I never put the personal into
stuff I ghost. Right, it's very technical. Everyone's usually satisfied
with what I do, but I don't put myself into it.
And I always put myself into all my films. So
that's the difference, and that's how I'm how to do
(19:47):
That's how I'm able to do it.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Is there.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
You know, people think about the skills that it takes
to be a filmmaker, and you know, they think things
may be like, oh, I should dabble maybe in writing.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I should.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
You know, I've heard a lot some times you should
if you want to get into this pa on sets
and just do anything, literally, just do anything and get
in and try and work every little job and do
everything right on the side, shoot shorts with your friends,
do all that stuff. But there's a lot of other
skills that I've come to learn that are involved that
are equally is important that people forget and I'd like
(20:20):
to hear your opinion on this. You know, the idea
of being a business savvy, I guess to a degree
and having you know, some form of awareness of social
media and like that how to kind of market yourself.
But then also, I suppose you know, when you sit
down in a meeting to pitch your idea to somebody
who Okay, maybe they're a film producer, maybe they're a
head of a company, but maybe they're not necessarily a
(20:42):
horror fan or a fan of this style or that style,
and you being able to, I suppose express why this
is accessible to everybody, not just.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Me who loves it and created it. But this is
the reason you should give me the money.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Yeah, I mean the first two. I'm hopeless businessman. I'm
absolutely terrible. I rely on other people for that. Money
just slips through my fingers like water. You know, it's ridiculous,
but business some terrible at Social media is something new
to me. I'm only just joined the Instagram and stuff.
I used to be on Twitter, but it found it
really depressing, so kind of let it so social media.
I usually need to producers and stuff for films. But
(21:18):
as prier is getting across your ideas to others, let's
just let the passion flow out of you, you know,
day whatever. Just you need to find a way of
getting it across the people. And for some reason I've
been able to do that. I don't I don't know.
I just speak from my heart. I speak why it
just needs to be made. You know. I seem to
be good at convincing people into doing stuff that they
(21:40):
are not initially convinced of, you know, And that's true,
speaking truthfully and from the heart and with passion, and
it usually works. You know.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Do you find you know, just on the topic of
I suppose you could tie it to social media anyway.
I feel like people more and more want to know
about the filmmaker, about the person who wrote it. Like,
you know, I have a lot of friends who are
not involved in film, don't really have you know, they
like movies and things, but they're not fans. But I
noticed them now, you know, see if we go to
(22:09):
the cinema to see something, and I remember actually taking
two friends to see Long Legs when it came out,
like and it's like a really kind of obscure movie.
In a way, and instantly when we came out, both
of them are on their phone looking up like, Okay,
who made this?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
What was the idea?
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Where did that come from? Nicholas Cage this, Nicholas Cage that,
And I'm like that there's something to that there. Do
you find that people are maybe increasingly more interested in
like the person behind the story or the count.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I think it's always brings out. I mean, you know,
when I started to be into film, that didn't exist, so,
you know, so I collected film books. I still have
hundreds of film books, you know. I wanted it out
what other directors taught and how they did things and
what was their mindset, and it was usually very inspiring.
So I don't think that's particularly new, you know, And
maybe there's types of things they want to know, but
(23:02):
about people are different, But I don't think so. I
think everything's just so accessible now you can just look
it up straight away. So it seems like everyone is
into that. But people who always who really love films
have always loved films, They've always done things like that.
They've always been into directors and directors' lives and filmmakers
and lives, you know, So I don't think that's anything new.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
What would you say is the most challenging thing you've
learned so far in this career? Is there something that
sticks out in your mind?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Is like, yeah, that was a pretty like hard lesson
to learn.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Oh, I mean, it happens every day on the settically,
you're not just see something, you know whether I mean
it's but it's all good, you know, it's I was
lucky in a way because I didn't go to film
school or anything like that. I'm completely self taught. And
in the beginning, I shot or co shot, I edited,
I wrote, sometimes acted in I did everything. I recorded
(23:53):
the sound, I did the sound design, and I learned
all the departments of the filmmaking. So when it came
to working with actual crews, big crew, nobody could tell
me you can't do that, or that's not possible, or
that's not the way you do things, because I had
already done this, you know, and for me, that was
the best way is by doing, you know. And we
(24:14):
still didn't learn hard lessons. I mean, some actors can
be very difficult. It's sometimes all actors need to be
treated very differently from each other. They're all individuals. That's
something although again that's something you learn very early on,
even with amateur actors or the first actors you work with,
those skills are carried true into big actors like John
(24:34):
Cusack or whoever else I worked with, Emil Hirst, should
actors more experienced actors, those same lessons you learn from
the beginning are exactly the same. And the pleasures of
making films at the very beginning with no money are
the same pleasures you have later on with some money.
You know, so lessons I could go through individual lessons.
I I suppose maybe dropping the ball a little on
(24:55):
some of the publicity of my films. I don't think
they've always been marketed correctly. Sometimes I mistakenly left that
to the producers of the distributors, and I shouldn't have,
you know, And because I so carefully control every other aspect,
I probably made a mistake in a couple of times.
So handing that over to someone else and not being involved,
I think the film's probably suffered because of that. Because
(25:17):
of it, they were presented to the world in the
wrong way, in the way that I didn't want them
to be resented, as you know, or to the world,
so that was a hard lesson, and you know, there's
too many to mention.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
You know, I've heard that actually several times kind of
behind the scenes that you know, people bring up being
so creatively involved in a project for maybe two three years,
from like the initial concept to the completion of post
production and then maybe handing off the you know, all
the market and all the advertising and not really having
a you know, like, okay, that's I've left it to them.
(25:50):
Now they're obviously going to care about the promotion of
this as much as I cared about the creation of it.
And then it just doesn't translated always the case. Yeah,
you know, it just doesn't try. And I feel like
it's unfortunate because there's probably a lot of films out
there that really do deserve more. And it's I guess
it's the good thing about the Internet in the way,
(26:10):
is like a lot of movies now kind of get
a second life cycle. If they are good, someone discovers them,
whether it be a YouTuber, a TikToker or something, then
they posted somewhere and the next thing then it's like boom,
it's on the top of the you know iTunes charts again.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
For a couple of weeks and whatever.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Which is nice, But so is that something then that
you kind of try to keep an eye on. I know,
probably can't control one hundred percent or anything, but do
you like to keep your ear in those conversations?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Then when it gets to that point, well I tried.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
It, I'm sure, or who did some one behind me?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Did?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
They?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
They were very good at involving you in the publicity
and stuff and asking me did I like this poster
or because that was the first time that ever happened,
you know, which is crazy. You know, I hated the poster,
the American poster for the Canal. I think it ruined
that release. It was completely it was presented, and they're
still using that as this blocky horror film which wasn't,
which it was not and is not. You know, I
(27:04):
think it's quite an intelligent horror film and an experimental
horror film. But they presented it as something that it
completely wasn't, and I protested at the time. I sent
them emails. I begged them, please don't release this poster,
you know, but they completely ignored me and they went
to hell with it. But like you said, I mean,
films do have a second life, and the Canal has
lived on. It's still in top ten lists and stuff
(27:25):
online and people still talk about it, and it's still
available and it's done very well on streaming and stuff
like that, you know, and it's still as available everywhere.
So it does have a second life. But it does
hurt when someone completely misunderstands what you tried to do,
what you spent two early years of your life doing
so very carefully, you know. But usually when you get
(27:47):
to post production or after post production, when it goes
out that people see this as their department. You're just
a filmmaker. You shouldn't really be involved with this, you know.
And you know, there is still a keepout kind of
attitude of about it, but it's getting better. And Sudar
were very good. I found with Sun and I really
like the poster that they presented, you know, and the
way they presented it. You know, that was the first
(28:08):
time I ever had that. And same with Never Grow Old.
I think that was presented in the wrong way as
well as this kind of action western, which it definitely
wasn't and they definitely didn't make and I know everyone
was on the same page as me when we were
making it. This is not an action Western. This is
something different, you know, but it was presented as that,
especially by the American distributors, as an action kind of movie,
and it's not. And the problem with that is the
(28:30):
people who should be watching it don't get to see it,
and then the people who shouldn't be watching it, who
might not, who might understand the more deliberately paced the
kind of a western, more of a drama that would
sort of maybe a gothic horror elements. They're expecting something different,
They're expecting to showt them up, which is not you know.
So this poster or this publicity is selling to the
(28:52):
wrong people and it just doesn't work, you know. So
I think it's very important to always for them to
engage with the filmmaker, you know. So on my next one,
I'm hoping that will happen.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
Let's see, do you find And I especially noticed this.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
I have family in the States, and you know, I
go back and forth quite a bit, and I try
to get involved in I guess the genre in the
States as well as much as I can. And anytime
I mentioned being from Ireland, the canal always comes up
and really yeah, and like so many people are like, oh,
it's you know, I love that movie. Do you find,
(29:28):
you know, when you make something like that and it
resonates specifically, like obviously with the horror community, even I suppose,
you know, even if we move up to more recent
times with some and things like that, do you still
get that thing where I don't know, you get maybe
pigeonholed in meetings in the sense of like, okay, so
you know, what else have you got? And then maybe
(29:48):
you tell them something the goyah. Can you make it
more like the Canal? Can you make it more like son?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah? Well no, I mean it was funny with the Canal.
Although it did very it did really well in Americas, see,
you know, at festivals and stuff like that, and when awards,
I think play got great, amazing reviews. I had a
lot of meetings with production companies after, you know, like
blumhou so Alid that made majors. You know, they all
said they loved the Canal, you know, And but I
(30:15):
found when I was pitching them with these what they
were pretty much saying was we love the Canal, but
please don't make something like the Canal again. You know.
It was a little too extreme for them, you know,
it was it pushed things a little too far for
the American sensibilities, I think, you know. And then so
they were kind of holding me back a bit, I found,
you know, and which is really strange because the reason
(30:36):
they loved it is because the film went there, went
places that or their horse RUMs didn't go to. But
at the same time they were afraid to go there themselves,
you know. So it was the opposite reaction actually, And
they still say they loved the canal, but don't want
me to make anything like that again in America.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Do you so? Yeah, obviously.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Then the water Bottle Tour, by the sounds of it,
I've heard about this infamous water Bottle Tour so many times,
you know, when you go on there and just even
hear from an audience standpoint, you're mentioned and names like
Blumbhouse and I'm sure the rest of the studios.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
As a professional, is that kind.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Of an exciting slash daunting experience to be like, I'm
meeting like all these people from those companies that we
hear about on this side of the world all the time.
And then also, I guess looking back on that now,
you know, I've heard so many times as well that
a lot of those meetings are you get really excited
(31:29):
in your head, but then soon realize when you walk away,
you're like, ah, okay, this is just this is what
we do.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, Americans today, American producers and companies, they complement you
to death, you know. Yeah, but nothing ever comes a
bit usually, you know, but sometimes it does. I mean,
after I made the canal that BBC Worldwide kime to
me and they asked me, had the any ideas for
horror film series? And I wrote an adaptation of the
Turn of This Crew by Henry James, the ghost story
you know said in Venice and the Modern Times. You know,
(31:58):
it was a sixth part TV series. So what we
They flew me to Los Angeles and we pitched to
all the networks. So I went to all the offices
of went I think, we went to Bloomhouse, we went
to HBO, we went to Stars, we went to show Time,
we went to Fox. We went into them all and
they all said they loved it, but only one picked
(32:19):
it up, you know, so and that was the very
first one we pitched. We pitched too, so some of
them mean that, some of them don't. But they're usually
all very complimentary and It's usually very easy to pitch
to them because they are so nice and enthusiastic about it,
you know, But it doesn't mean they're going to buy
it either, you know, but they have a lot. It's
strange with TV. I haven't had a good experience with TV. Really.
They have unlimited money and they don't care if they
(32:41):
drop projects, you know, so it's very disorientating, you know.
It's I wrote these six six episodes, but they decided
a network which was Universal, and they decided they weren't
going to any going to make limited series anymore, only
continuing series, and ours was limited, so they decided to
shelve it. So like two years of three years of
work went down the drain, you know, which was that
(33:01):
was a hard lesson, you know, but it's just part
of the business, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
I actually spoke with someone earlier this week that mentioned
something similar about like some of these companies seem to
have just like unlimited resources where they just like it's
like they batch buy things for fear that maybe other
companies might take it, it might do well, and then
they're just willing to just like dump put on the shelf.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Somewhere and go, oh well, We're just never going to
do anything with that.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
What was so heartbreaking about this was that although they
didn't want to make it, they also didn't want us
to pitch the other networks, so we couldn't do anything
with it, you know, which was really heartbreaking, you know.
But luckily I had the Western coming up, so I
just went straight onto that. But it wasn't as if
my whole life was depending on this TV series. But
it was a hard lesson, and to be honest, it
was one of the best writing experiences I ever had.
(33:48):
Their notes were fantastic, it was roses all the way,
you know, But then they just didn't make it. And
it's nothing personal. It's just they don't make the majority
of what they fund to Royce. You know. That's just
the way it is. You know.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
Is that difficult as a you know, because obviously I'm
sure you grew up a fan, You're still an audience
member to a degree as well as you know, a
creator in the space.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Is it difficult though?
Speaker 4 (34:10):
You know, when you get into those situations not to
jump the gun, Like I feel like if I was
to maybe be put in some of those rooms that
like instantly I'd be like, yeah, I'll just say yes,
it's universal.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I'll just say yes to whatever.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
And you know, I've heard some horror stories where people
said maybe they didn't take the right people with them,
or they didn't kind of sit themselves down before the
water Bottle tour and kind of.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Say right, I need to like relax here for a second.
And they were willing to nearly.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Give anything or anything just to be you know involved.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yeah, no, I mean that that didn't happen. Mate. It
was only if only one company came back and bought it.
You know. It wasn't as if they said, well, we'll
take it on the spot. And they never say that
even the company at the ended up buying it. They
just listen. They say thanks for coming in, will have
an internal meeting about it, and we'll get back to you.
Usually they say no, but one of the music says yes.
But so that never happened with me.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Just to go back to something you mentioned earlier about
you know, being completely self taught and the idea of
film school. I don't know where you sit on this
idea or not, but I feel like now, you know
a lot of people say, oh, well, everybody has an
iPhone in their pocket, you can shoot on that, you
can do a lot of cool things and unique things
with that show your creativity. But then on the other side,
(35:27):
I feel like maybe as things have advanced, a lot
of places have gotten more like, Okay, what school did
you go to, what credential do you have?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
What piece of paper have you got?
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Where do you sit on the importance of that?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
And do you think.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
That's Can you still get your foot in the door
by just showing who you are or do you need
to do that and also have a piece of paper
from a place to say.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Oh, yeah, you know, he's past the test.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
No.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
I mean, for me, if I'm a hurrying people, I
don't care where skilled I went to. I just want
to see their work. You know. If I'm hiring an actor,
I don't care where they went to and I just
want to see their show real or their audition tape
or whatever, and I picked them through that. I mean,
that's for me personally, that's what I do. I mean,
if a cinematographer comes to me and they show me
a show real, let's say you're amazing, You're heard, I
don't care what if they went to Dunleary or New
(36:16):
York or whatever you know, NYU or whatever, if they're talented.
But that's just me, you know. As far as being
a filmmaker and a director, you either you are a filmmaker,
you know, you just have to convince other people you are.
It's just when you if you present a body work
to some two people, then there's it's undeniable. What do
you need credentials for? Here's Mike Crogensles, here's my proof
(36:36):
of concept. Here's what I can do. Do you want
to be involved or don't you want to be involved?
Fine by me. If you don't, to move out to
someone else, you know, And that's the way I always talk.
But that's just me. You know. Whether maybe if more technicians,
maybe they do need to go to film school, maybe
it is better as a cinematographer to go to film
school to learn lighting and stuff like that. So it's
all very individual. And if you read enough biograph freezed
(37:00):
up filmmakers, nobody has ever done it the same way.
Everyone has been different, you know, And someone dropped out
of film school like the John Carpenter. John Carpenter dropped
out of film school to make Dark Star. David Lynch
went to film school and he used his time in
film school to make a short and then began eraser
heads and Scorsese went to film school, and but others didn't,
(37:22):
you know, the early guys certainly didn't, you know. So
it's all individual. But if you have a body of
work and he's something that's you can prove to someone,
I can make movies, then you don't need any piece
of paper. And I certainly have never ever heard anyone
based on where they went to school or what progenitals
they have ever.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
And it's funny you said that, because I've heard multiple
times as well that, like, you know, people, if you're
lucky enough to have the opportunity to go to film school.
I've heard of from a couple of different people who
are like, I literally just used it to ingrain myself
in the community and get connections with other people, and Okay,
I need a you know, a dop, I need an editor,
(38:03):
I needed this, I needed that, and this person is
into this, and just kind of building that little family
was nearly more important than like anything they actually learned
per se or pieces of paper they got at the end.
If you had to restart everything today at the start
of twenty twenty five, how would you go about it?
You know, in I guess the modern day I.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Go about was exactly the same way. Because that's I
would have got lost in film school. I would have
been that guy in the corner who was the quiet
guy in the corner, you know, because I'm not the
gregarious type in a crowd. I hate that stuff. I'm
not that particularly social. When I need to be, I
am film like to you know, talk to exex or
whatever you know, or on a sense I particularly am.
(38:47):
But I would have been lost in film school. You know,
if it was a film school where only a certain
person gets to be director, I wouldn't have been picked,
you know. So I knew that. I knew I had
to go my own way, and I knew I had
to do it my own way way. I was making
solons now today. I mean, I'd get my own editing software,
you know, I'd if I had to use my camera
on my phone, I would. I think psychologically it's better
(39:09):
to have a camera, you know, rather than a phone,
because there's so troll away and anyone can do that.
But people have made amazing stuff on my phones as well.
I just get any camera. I'd get editing equipment and
I begin no matter what, and the first few I mean,
and I just sure orson wells or something. The first
couple are not going to be good, and people are
probably saying it's not good. But just keep going, you know,
(39:29):
because even if it's not, the first few short films
or whatever you make are very good, then it's a
good lesson for the next one, and the next one
and the next one. Just keep working, don't stop, don't
listen to anyone, and keep making films. You know, and
learn the skills. Learn what makes good sound, learn where
to put the mic, learn how to light people. So
when you come to me, when you come to be
(39:51):
on the film set with a real crew, then you
have a grounding in all departments, so you know how
to talk to someone. And there will be people who
are lazy and say you can't do it that way,
or who are stuck in their way of doing things,
and you say, no, I want to do this because
I've done this before and this is how you do it,
and this is how I want to do it. So
for me, I do it exactly the same way. But
(40:12):
that's just me. Someone i else might completely thrive in
the film school environments.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
You know, I have one or two quick questions before
I let you go today. Do you have any comfort
horror movies? You know, movies that you would find yourself.
They kind of sit the top the list as like,
I don't know, ones you put on in the background
when you're doing something else, or you rewatch them several times.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I don't like to ask what's your favorite movie, because.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
I feel like it can be quite difficult, it can
change throughout your life. But as regards just comfort ones
that you enjoy to just put on over and over.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean when you
mean comfort horror movies. I've had so many of them
over the years. You know, it used to be de Shining.
I mean I must have watched that three or four
hundred times. I don't know, it's just to have it on,
just to watch the shots, just what you've seen or something.
But I feel like that's, you know, it's it used
to be like when I started watching and I start
(41:02):
watching it in nineteen ninety, which was ten years after
it came out, and I remember the first time I
watched it and it was very It wasn't particularly well
received at the time, and even during nineteen ninety it
wasn't having that big of following, so it felt like
a secret that I had, and I loved it. I
didn't care what anyone else taught. And then because it's
become more popular over the years and everyone, even someone
who isn't even the horror movie, says it's their favorite
(41:23):
horror movie now. Yes, So I kind of went off
that one, and lately I've been watching it because it's
good fun and I love the skill of the technical
skill of watching that. I've loved them dragged me to
hell with the Sam Raimi movie, which I think is
great fun and it's genuinely scary and it's very inventive
as a great ending night of the demon. There's another one,
the one from the fifties and the Jacques Turneuur film.
(41:46):
I just love the atmosphere of that. Eraser Head used
to be another one when I just had the VAH yes,
used to have this terrible vhgenis but something about the
terrible quality of it added to it for the midnight
movie kind of quality to that film, you know. But
I haven't watched that in quite a while, so I
go through phases, you know, But right now it's struck
me to hell, which cures me up, and very inspiring,
(42:08):
and it's kind of thing you can dip into and
dip out all and it's very inventive.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
It's funny.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
I've had this conversation a lot recently, and I've had
some filmmakers come back and say, you know what, I
would actually nearly prefer my work to be considered a
comfort movie for many people rather than it you know,
be oh, this is the best movie of the year,
and then nobody ever speaks about it again. You know,
we get some of these movies that I suppose when
(42:33):
they came out there so many they were just a
blip on the map, and nobody thought that they were
ever going to be anything. And now we're sitting here
in twenty twenty five talking about them still among lots
of other people as well. Who are I could talk
to you all day? I know you're busy, man, you
have stuff to do. Where can people I suppose find
you or best support you now if they want to
kind of keep you know, keep an eye on what's
(42:54):
coming next.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Just to look out in the trades, whatever variety stuff
like that. You know, I should have a big announcement
coming up pretty soon. We're aiming to begin prep on
one in during on July. Fingers crossed. Films do fall
apart all the time. I have several films in the works,
you know. I've learned that over the years you need
to double many projects because many won't happen, you know.
But I think I have four feature films that are
(43:17):
in various stages of the development and pre production. So
one of them is abound to happen this year. So
as far as social media goes, I'm on Instagram, but
I'm not a very good instagrammer. I don't keep up
with it that much, and I don't update it that much.
But occasionally I do. With there's a good article online
about one of my films or something like that, and
certainly there's an announcement about my next film, I will
(43:38):
put it up there, you know. So Instagram is the
only one. I'm not on Facebook or Twitter or any
of those things.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
So for everybody listening, whether it's video or audio, all
the links to Ivan's movies, I'll find the links. They'll
be all in the description down below, as well as
his Instagram and a few other bits.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
Final question, then, before I let you go? Is why
horror and what does it mean to you?
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Well, it came in. My early films were more experimental
or dramas or family dramas, you know, but there was
attention and I dreaded them. That was lent itself very
naturally to horror. You know. I made a film called
A Fading Light, which did amazingly well at festivals all
over the world and won many awards and won the
Best Film at the Double Film Festival. But I couldn't
(44:18):
get funding for a similar film after it, you know.
So I said, I'm gonna have to find a different
having you in a different way in and if there's
a way I could do that by through genre, by
making something as personal at the same time, I could
do that. And I love horror movies. I've always loved
horror movies. And I thought I'll try and write a
horror movie. And then I wrote The Canals and I
presented that to Screen Ireland and they loved it and
(44:41):
it went from there. So I wasn't a plan for
me to become a horror movie director, you know. And
you do kind of get pigeonholes sometimes as that. I've
been lucky. I made other type of movies as well,
but I love horror and you know, but I did
come in it from the kind of sideways and I
didn't plan it that way, and then people want more
of the same then after and I just nude from
there of course.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Like I said, it's been a pleasure, it's been great
chatting to you. I'd love to do it again. Maybe
when some of these things get announced in the second
half of this year, I would love to revisit maybe
chat again. And like I said, for everybody, the links
to Ivans movies will be down below on the descriptions,
so check them out. And yeah, like I said, thanks
for all the best and Ye'll see you soon.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Thanks for having me, Thank.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
You, thanks for listening to another episode of Class Horror Cast.
Stop the CHC podcast at classharror cast dot com, at
first Class Horror, on Instagram to talk and YouTube, or
on Twitter and Class Underscore Horror. The CC podcast is
(45:42):
hosted and produced by Aaron Doyle and is an fch production.
You can run, but you can't hide from the class
hard cast haunting you from the Emerald Ile. Your host,
Aaron Doyle takes you on a journey to the depths
of horror with exclusive interviews, horror news, reviews, and more. Tickets.
Please you were about you enter the Theater of the Man.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Enjoy the show, Welcome to the show. Pleasure to have
you on today.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
How are you yeah, I'm good, Yeah, good to be here.
Speaker 4 (00:29):
I always like to go back to the start when
I first started talking to somebody, and.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I guess for you, for you know, we get to maybe.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Horror and things like that, what first brought filmmake into
your life as a I guess as a more serious avenue.
You know, I feel like a lot of people, you know,
have dreams of being different things. But and as I
well known, I think I've heard you mentioned this before
in previous interviews, you know, coming from Ireland, a lot
of that stuff kind of feels like I think you
(00:57):
you liking the two you know, being an astronaut or
going to the move, and it does kind of feel
like that. So how does it go from I guess
a dream to reality.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
Well, it wasn't a dream for a long time. You know.
I'm from Finglis, which is working where you was very
it probably still is very working class Dublin, you know,
and there you just you left school and you got
a job. You didn't know. Nobody had a career. Nobody
I went to school, which went to college other than
technical college stuff like that. So you're what you were
(01:27):
allowed to or encouraged to dream for was very limited,
I found, you know, and you're kind of surrounded all
this time with this kind of negativity where you could
never dream beyond your box, and if you did, they
try and bring you down again. But I always had
this love for film. You know. I was quite a
lonely kid. I hated school, I hated where I lived,
(01:47):
and it was kind of like an escape for me,
you know. I just loved the fantasy of films rather
than reality where I was at the time, you know.
And when I was about fourteen or thirteen, my mother
like a high eight video camera and I just started
to mess around with the camera. I started to edit
from VHS to VHS machine and the editing is what
(02:10):
got me first. It was that the magic of the
cut between one shot and another. It just grabbed me
and I just loved it. And then I'd make short
films with my friends, and then I'd I got a
high eight or a super eight camera film camera, and
I started to make super eight films. And when I
was about maybe twenty or twenty one something like that,
(02:32):
someone says you should send one of these films into
a festival or something, which had never occurred to me.
And it just started to win prizes and get good reviews,
and I was just encouraged to keep going, you know.
But the idea of becoming a filmmaker was just as
I said before, it was like becoming an ASTRONOMT was
so beyond my reach. I didn't even think about it.
But it was just deep love of cinema I had.
(02:54):
I just love cinema and more than reality.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I still do the same as and you know, it's
fast it for me to you know, obviously, we're both
from Ireland and I can a lot of times when
I hear you speak about that stuff, it kind of
really resonates with me because I still feel like there's
a little bit of a degree of that. Obviously we've
come on from them, but there is still a little
(03:17):
bit of that. I don't know, that old school, like
deep seeded Irish, like I, you know, go and get
a real job, would you.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah, there's still that and a lot of that, especially
if you're from a working class back and like I was,
just like, you need to start saying, Okay, I need
to keep that person out of my life now, you know,
because this person is dragging me down. If I stick
around this person, they're gonna just keep me on this level.
And I want to go somewhere else. I want to
go beyond you. I want to do stuff. I just
(03:44):
I don't want what everyone else has, like an ordinary
job and stuff like that. I mean, there's nothing wrong
with that. I've worked plenty of ordinary jobs trying to
fund my early films, but it just wasn't for me.
I just I just I love movies so much, and
I just this is what I want to do, and
nothing was going to stop me. You know. So when
I started leaving certain people behind who were saying you
(04:06):
can never do that. Who do you think you are?
You know, then things started to happen for me. You know,
when you surround yourself with positive people and like minded people,
things started to happen.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Maybe for you know, the people out there.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
I think there's a lot of people that listen to
this that are aspiring filmmakers, writers, or in any I
guess creative endeavor. You can kind of get a lot
of that pushback, but I suppose what advice would you
give to someone or because it does sound like you
obviously went through that, because I was going to ask
that question of like, you know, how long did you
kind of progress through that, because it can be quite
(04:38):
difficult for people. You know, someone constantly in your ear
telling you, like, you know, you know, you're a fucking idiot,
why are you doing this? Just go and get a
job in the supermarkets, you know, And it's this constant
and I think sometimes people do it from I always
used to reference it as like it was a very
irish thing. But maybe I was just doing it because
my experience was obviously coming from Ireland. But yeah, you know,
(05:00):
as the ears went on, I kind of sat back
and went a lot of people are not even doing
this from a bad place. They don't even realize what
it is that they're actually doing and they're like, you know, look,
you'll be fine here with us. We'll go to the
pub on a Friday night and Monday way back in work,
and that's just that's it.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I think it's just fanacidy. You know, you just have
to keep going, you know, no matter what anyone says,
and people are going to as you say. They don't
even know. It's because they've been brought down throughout their lives,
I think, you know, and it's just automatic reaction. You know.
Some of it might be I don't want you to
do better than me, or they feel threatened, or they
(05:36):
don't want to lose you or stuff like that. But
some of them might be coming from a good place
where they might be trying to save you pain, as in,
you know, who do you think someone like you making
movies or whatever it is your dream is, you know,
but you just have to completely ignore that, you know.
I was making films for ten years. Myself funded my
first three featre films before I got any funding at all,
(05:59):
before I started to make get a living out of it.
You know, I worked two and three dollars jobs at
a time, just buy editing equipment and my own cameras.
And my philosophy was always just concentrate on the work,
Just keep making the films and the rest will follow
and it will come during those ten years, and I
was hellish sometimes, you know, I had I was in
(06:19):
relationships with people, and some of my family were saying,
this is never going to happen what you're doing. You
need to get proper jobs, You need to get permanent
you know, vocation or you know, a career or something else,
something more achievable. But I said, no, this is all
I wanted to do. And I just kept going and going,
and eventually one of my film's feature films I May
(06:42):
called The Solution, was spotted by the head of the
RISH Film Board, a guy called Simon Perry at the time,
and he saw it at a festival in South Africa
and he just gave me a call one day and
he said, I saw your film and I loved it
so much, and what do you want to do next?
He said, you know, and for me, this is what
I always dreamed of for those ten years, you know,
and it was like it came true. What I always
(07:04):
thought was I just had to keep going, not care
what anyone else thinks, just enjoy what I'm doing, make
it all about the work and the rest will follow.
And I did and I still has since then.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
You know, do you feel like there was a shift
in maybe people's perception of you, you know, those inner
personal relationships, maybe that you were either struggling with the
people maybe pushed away. Did you feel like there was
any kind of a shift, I guess since that point,
and maybe not immediately, but when they realized, oh wait,
(07:33):
this isn't like you know, it wasn't just a one
off thing that you know, now he's done another project
and another thing, and yeah, did you find that, like
in your personal life that people were kind of maybe
changing their perception of what it was you were actually doing.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, I mean certain people dropped away, and they had
to drop away with other people. When they started to
see the films winning awards and getting good reviews and
getting some attention, they couldn't deny that I was onto something,
you know, and so they started to come around. But
it really depended on the person, you know. But my
parents came around pretty quickly, and they've they helped me
(08:08):
financially towards the beginning, you know, and I'm really grateful
for that. My sisters, my two sisters, once they started
to win a wars and stuff, they were really helpful.
You know. I requisitioned people's houses my friends' houses, anywhere
I could shoot, and if I needed extras or extra crew,
I just dragged people in, so you know, you know,
(08:29):
that was just that's what I even does. He makes films,
so you have them out and because it's so much
fun making films, and because I like to create like
a very creative, fun atmosphere on films. People liked being
involved for nominee or whatever, and you know, and we'd
all share the embrazol together and see what we were
doing and see that we were making something good. So
(08:49):
those people came around. But what other people, more negative
people had to fall away, you know, And that was
painful sometimes to cut people off from your life, you know,
but you do have to do it in order to
achieve anything, you know, because what other people are always
going to pull you back.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, And it's funny.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
And again I think that suggestion I made earlier about
I felt like it was a very irish thing maybe
sometimes to do that. And you know, I talked to
a lot of people in the UK who kind of
mirrored that same that same feeling. And it's funny because
I feel like close family members and like the people
who love you as soon as you show them that
glimmer of like, oh, you know, Ivan isn't just mad,
(09:28):
He's actually making movies. All of a sudden, there's like
this switch where everybody's like, right pilot. Everyone jump on that,
like we're gonna help, we're gonna do this, we're gonna
do that, And then other people can be quite.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
Cold to that.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
Do you think it's healthy to have a little bit
of I don't want to say dwelling on those people
that are.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Like, what are you doing or why or whatever, but is.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
It healthy maybe to have that in the back of
your mind and use that as maybe a little bit
of a driving force. And then I guess secondary to that,
a lot of people talk to me about him chasing
a dream like this and struggling with relationships and things,
and they feel like they can't keep it together because
a lot of people don't understand. It can be quite lonely,
and you know, you can lose girlfriend's, boyfriend's husbands, wives, kids.
(10:10):
It becomes a very difficult balancing act between the two.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I've lost relationships and everything because
of us. You know, it couldn't it couldn't be helped.
You know, I needed to do it for my for
them and for myself, and it would have been terrible
without it, you know. You know, if you have if
you really want something, you just this is all you
want to do and nothing can stop you, you know.
(10:34):
And that's kind of the driving force that you need,
almost need an unshakable belief in yourselves on what you're
doing in order to keep going. And because there is
going to be many setbacks. There still is setbacks, you know.
For me, you know, I had a film fall apart
last year. I mean, that's that was it, and I
worked three years getting together, you know, But that those
are just you need to be strong like that and
(10:57):
just keep going no matter what it trow is actually,
you know, and always concentrate on the work because that's
what's most important, you know. But I was pretty lucky.
I was in a long term relationship at the time
and that person was very understanding and stuff, and she
came around and helped out making the films as well,
and we used their apartment many times during films. So
(11:18):
but it is hard to You're right, it is hard
to maintain that because people deserve and want attention and
sometimes you just can't give it to them because you
want to make films, but you need to choose what
you want in your life. You know, if you want
to get married and have kids at that particular point,
that's you can still make films. But for me, I
couldn't have done that because my resources were limited money wise.
(11:39):
I'm the kind of person that needs to be all
in for something. I can't multitask, you know, I can't
juggle different types of lives. And I said it to
the person at the time. I said it to her.
I said, this is all I wanted to do, you know,
and if you like, you can get off this particular
train on them all, or you can come along with
me if you like, you know, And I was very
(11:59):
honest about that. I said, nothing is going to stop me,
so and that's what I just kept going like that,
and I still do.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
This is the first time I think probably ever in
all the people I've talked to, that someone has been
very straight about that. It's not I feel like a
lot of times people kind of give an answer and
then maybe kind of come back a bit from that,
and you know, because maybe they don't want to be
seen as the person to just say it out right.
(12:26):
You kind of want to dance that line between well,
you know what, you can't have ten kids and you know,
have no money and then also try and cell phone,
and which is not the reality, like you just said.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
And I think it's important for people to know.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
That there's probably going to be lots of situations and
I'm sure you had it where it's not nice and
it's not comfortable and it feels like shit, then you have.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
To do well.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Maybe depends on what type of person you are at
the same time, and if you're independently wealthy or not,
you know, And I wasn't. You know, I didn't want
a boy a house. And although I was had a
mortgage on a small mortgage on an apartment of so
was sharing with someone. But I didn't want to boy
a house and I didn't want kids at that particular
that time. And I know I needed to funnel all
my money into my films and I was working jobs.
(13:04):
I need to do that, you know. But other people
can juggle that because they have the resources and the
money to do that. But I knew what I needed
to do. I need, I knew the sacrifices that I
needed to make, and I was willing to make them.
And they were painful sacrifices sometimes. You know, I could
see a lot of people like who had chosen different
parts or different paths in life, were getting you know,
(13:26):
monetary success, maybe in the jobs you're getting. But I
was saying, I just my path is slower and I
will get there eventually, and I'd rather have the love
of what I'm doing than lots of financial turns immediately,
you know. But all that did come then later on,
you know, when I started to get funding from the
films and stuff, you know, and I started to make
a living out of it. But as I said, it
was ten years.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
You know, as someone I just find it fascinating as
someone that's you know, come from like a I guess
a quote unquote old school Irish background.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Kind of speak quite matter of.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Fact, but a lot of things, I feel like you're
always kind of taught to repress a lot of that stuff.
And I think eventually, then, you know, when it does
rear its head, it's like this huge explosion and things
just go crazy. But it seems like were you did
you always have that mentality you were able to kind
of keep an even keel and not allow it to
you know, because I feel like everybody says, Okay, this
(14:20):
is what I want to do or whatever, and then
when things started to fall apart, all of a sudden,
your life spirals out of control, and then maybe the
dream falls away and you just become manic, and then
you try and claw back, and it kind of keeps
doing this dip. And I think a lot of people
that just the minute that starts to happen, it's like, oh, Okay,
that's it, and I'm done.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
If you do If you do that, you'll never because
there will be setbacks all the time, you know, and
they're huge highs and then really low lowers. And I've
been at the bottom many times, you know, but you
just have to keep going no matter what. You know.
I remember because of where I grew up, it was
very working class. I went to really rough schools, I
mean really rough, and I wasn't a rough person, you know,
(15:01):
got through it. I had friends and stuff like that,
but I wasn't cut out for the toughness of where
I went to school or where I was brought of,
you know. And I learned to just not care what
I was into. What I was into, and I didn't
care what anyone else taught, so did when I was
very young. I loved classical music. I looked twentieth century
classic music like Pender Risky and stuff, kind of the
(15:23):
stuff that you ended up using in horror movies and stuff.
And I didn't care what any of the other kids
in school, teenagers thought at school. They were into whatever
was out in the eighties, whatever, And I always had
that mentality of I'm into what I'm into, and I
don't care what you're into, you know, and you're welcome
to what you're into. So I think that's strange, that
outsider kind of strainth came from that, you know, And
(15:45):
then I was able to use that later on for
making movie. But that was kind of more like a
defense mechanism, defense mechanism for where I grew up because
it was so rough, you know, and I wasn't Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:57):
Yeah, I definitely like everything you're saying.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
It just resonates with me so much. When then does
it hit the point?
Speaker 4 (16:04):
And I obviously know this is going to be an
individual answer between everybody, but for you specifically, you know,
when does the decision come like that? Okay, now maybe
I can start to have, you know, start to introduce
some of these other things like you know, having a child,
or getting a bit more serious or settling down in
a certain location. And maybe I could be completely wrong
(16:27):
about this, but is there always like an anxiety financially
about like you just mentioned you spent three years working
on a project that fell apart. So yeah, so like,
how do you know when is the right time to like, okay,
I'm okay to do this now and then obviously have
that fear of like, well the rug could be pulled
from undermade any point with any project.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Yeah, you just have to take a leap of faith.
I mean, there is not the right time to do it,
you know. I mean it is such an unstable business.
I was lucky in a way because I'm also a writer,
so I can in between movies, I can earn a
living writing and I go written many scripts with no
credit for other filmmakers as well, you know. And I've
done that, and I've written my own scripts. I've been
(17:07):
in development when my own scripts some scripts have never
been made into films, but I still got paid for
writing them. If I hadn't had that safety net of writing,
then I don't think I could have survived. But for me,
it happened when The Canal the first sort of film
with a budget. It was less than a million euros,
but it was any the first kind of budget that
(17:27):
I had, you know, when that started to be successful,
and when a premiere a Tribeca and stuff, and then
started to tour tour around the world. And where I met
my wife was at my at a festival here in
Sweden and she was one of the festival organizers and
she picked the films that were going to be on
and we just met and you know, just fell in love.
And that was the right time because you know, I
(17:50):
wanted to be with her and I wanted to stay
with her. But it just happened to coincide when I
had money and I felt completely right. And we have
struggled financially since then, but it's pretty pretty stable, you know.
And it just I didn't plan it that way. It
just happened, you know, and I happened to coincide with
the time when I was okay financially, so we just
went with it and we had two kids.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Now, what's that experience, like you mentioned ghost writing scripts
for people? Is that is that a strange experience?
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Obviously?
Speaker 4 (18:17):
I know, look, you know, it's a job, it's what
you like to do. But in the sense of you know,
ghost right, you don't know, you have no connection to
the work. Basically, you just paid to write. Is that
a difficult thing to do as a creative to kind
of I don't know, craft a story of world characters
and things like that and then hand them off and
be like, well, technically this isn't mine.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
No, not really. I mean I put my all into it.
I listened to them. I listen to what they need
for me. It's usually that either they needed a dialogue, rewrite,
or structure or rewrite. It's very technical kind of stuff,
you know. I mean the scripts I get that have
ghost written in the past and I haven't done it
in a while. But when I did, it was also
always about strugg and I always polishing what was already there.
(19:02):
Sometimes I read a script that was so bad that
I couldn't have done anything with it. I would have
had to rewrite the whole thing completely. And I wouldn't
have done that because then that would have been completely mine,
you know. But if someone presents me with a script
where oh, I can see this section needs rewriting, this
section needs rewriting, they need better scares, they need some
better set pieces. Then that's okay because it's kind of
a technical thing, you know. And for me, because my films,
(19:26):
even though they might not seem like it, because some
of them are genre films, might not seem like it
on the outside, might not seem personal. They are very
personal to me, and I never put the personal into
stuff I ghost. Right, it's very technical. Everyone's usually satisfied
with what I do, but I don't put myself into it.
And I always put myself into all my films. So
that's the difference, and that's how I'm how to do
(19:47):
That's how I'm able to do it.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Is there.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
You know, people think about the skills that it takes
to be a filmmaker, and you know, they think things
may be like, oh, I should dabble maybe in writing.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
I should.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
You know, I've heard a lot some times you should
if you want to get into this pa on sets
and just do anything, literally, just do anything and get
in and try and work every little job and do
everything right on the side, shoot shorts with your friends,
do all that stuff. But there's a lot of other
skills that I've come to learn that are involved that
are equally is important that people forget and I'd like
(20:20):
to hear your opinion on this. You know, the idea
of being a business savvy, I guess to a degree
and having you know, some form of awareness of social
media and like that how to kind of market yourself.
But then also, I suppose you know, when you sit
down in a meeting to pitch your idea to somebody
who Okay, maybe they're a film producer, maybe they're a
head of a company, but maybe they're not necessarily a
(20:42):
horror fan or a fan of this style or that style,
and you being able to, I suppose express why this
is accessible to everybody, not just.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
Me who loves it and created it. But this is
the reason you should give me the money.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Yeah, I mean the first two. I'm hopeless businessman. I'm
absolutely terrible. I rely on other people for that. Money
just slips through my fingers like water. You know, it's ridiculous,
but business some terrible at Social media is something new
to me. I'm only just joined the Instagram and stuff.
I used to be on Twitter, but it found it
really depressing, so kind of let it so social media.
I usually need to producers and stuff for films. But
(21:18):
as prier is getting across your ideas to others, let's
just let the passion flow out of you, you know,
day whatever. Just you need to find a way of
getting it across the people. And for some reason I've
been able to do that. I don't I don't know.
I just speak from my heart. I speak why it
just needs to be made. You know. I seem to
be good at convincing people into doing stuff that they
(21:40):
are not initially convinced of, you know, And that's true,
speaking truthfully and from the heart and with passion, and
it usually works. You know.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
Do you find you know, just on the topic of
I suppose you could tie it to social media anyway.
I feel like people more and more want to know
about the filmmaker, about the person who wrote it. Like,
you know, I have a lot of friends who are
not involved in film, don't really have you know, they
like movies and things, but they're not fans. But I
noticed them now, you know, see if we go to
(22:09):
the cinema to see something, and I remember actually taking
two friends to see Long Legs when it came out,
like and it's like a really kind of obscure movie.
In a way, and instantly when we came out, both
of them are on their phone looking up like, Okay,
who made this?
Speaker 2 (22:27):
What was the idea?
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Where did that come from? Nicholas Cage this, Nicholas Cage that,
And I'm like that there's something to that there. Do
you find that people are maybe increasingly more interested in
like the person behind the story or the count.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
I think it's always brings out. I mean, you know,
when I started to be into film, that didn't exist, so,
you know, so I collected film books. I still have
hundreds of film books, you know. I wanted it out
what other directors taught and how they did things and
what was their mindset, and it was usually very inspiring.
So I don't think that's particularly new, you know, And
maybe there's types of things they want to know, but
(23:02):
about people are different, But I don't think so. I
think everything's just so accessible now you can just look
it up straight away. So it seems like everyone is
into that. But people who always who really love films
have always loved films, They've always done things like that.
They've always been into directors and directors' lives and filmmakers
and lives, you know, So I don't think that's anything new.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
What would you say is the most challenging thing you've
learned so far in this career? Is there something that
sticks out in your mind?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Is like, yeah, that was a pretty like hard lesson
to learn.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Oh, I mean, it happens every day on the settically,
you're not just see something, you know whether I mean
it's but it's all good, you know, it's I was
lucky in a way because I didn't go to film
school or anything like that. I'm completely self taught. And
in the beginning, I shot or co shot, I edited,
I wrote, sometimes acted in I did everything. I recorded
(23:53):
the sound, I did the sound design, and I learned
all the departments of the filmmaking. So when it came
to working with actual crews, big crew, nobody could tell
me you can't do that, or that's not possible, or
that's not the way you do things, because I had
already done this, you know, and for me, that was
the best way is by doing, you know. And we
(24:14):
still didn't learn hard lessons. I mean, some actors can
be very difficult. It's sometimes all actors need to be
treated very differently from each other. They're all individuals. That's
something although again that's something you learn very early on,
even with amateur actors or the first actors you work with,
those skills are carried true into big actors like John
(24:34):
Cusack or whoever else I worked with, Emil Hirst, should
actors more experienced actors, those same lessons you learn from
the beginning are exactly the same. And the pleasures of
making films at the very beginning with no money are
the same pleasures you have later on with some money.
You know, so lessons I could go through individual lessons.
I I suppose maybe dropping the ball a little on
(24:55):
some of the publicity of my films. I don't think
they've always been marketed correctly. Sometimes I mistakenly left that
to the producers of the distributors, and I shouldn't have,
you know, And because I so carefully control every other aspect,
I probably made a mistake in a couple of times.
So handing that over to someone else and not being involved,
I think the film's probably suffered because of that. Because
(25:17):
of it, they were presented to the world in the
wrong way, in the way that I didn't want them
to be resented, as you know, or to the world,
so that was a hard lesson, and you know, there's
too many to mention.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
You know, I've heard that actually several times kind of
behind the scenes that you know, people bring up being
so creatively involved in a project for maybe two three years,
from like the initial concept to the completion of post
production and then maybe handing off the you know, all
the market and all the advertising and not really having
a you know, like, okay, that's I've left it to them.
(25:50):
Now they're obviously going to care about the promotion of
this as much as I cared about the creation of it.
And then it just doesn't translated always the case. Yeah,
you know, it just doesn't try. And I feel like
it's unfortunate because there's probably a lot of films out
there that really do deserve more. And it's I guess
it's the good thing about the Internet in the way,
(26:10):
is like a lot of movies now kind of get
a second life cycle. If they are good, someone discovers them,
whether it be a YouTuber, a TikToker or something, then
they posted somewhere and the next thing then it's like boom,
it's on the top of the you know iTunes charts again.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
For a couple of weeks and whatever.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
Which is nice, But so is that something then that
you kind of try to keep an eye on. I know,
probably can't control one hundred percent or anything, but do
you like to keep your ear in those conversations?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
Then when it gets to that point, well I tried.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
It, I'm sure, or who did some one behind me?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Did?
Speaker 1 (26:42):
They?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
They were very good at involving you in the publicity
and stuff and asking me did I like this poster
or because that was the first time that ever happened,
you know, which is crazy. You know, I hated the poster,
the American poster for the Canal. I think it ruined
that release. It was completely it was presented, and they're
still using that as this blocky horror film which wasn't,
which it was not and is not. You know, I
(27:04):
think it's quite an intelligent horror film and an experimental
horror film. But they presented it as something that it
completely wasn't, and I protested at the time. I sent
them emails. I begged them, please don't release this poster,
you know, but they completely ignored me and they went
to hell with it. But like you said, I mean,
films do have a second life, and the Canal has
lived on. It's still in top ten lists and stuff
(27:25):
online and people still talk about it, and it's still
available and it's done very well on streaming and stuff
like that, you know, and it's still as available everywhere.
So it does have a second life. But it does
hurt when someone completely misunderstands what you tried to do,
what you spent two early years of your life doing
so very carefully, you know. But usually when you get
(27:47):
to post production or after post production, when it goes
out that people see this as their department. You're just
a filmmaker. You shouldn't really be involved with this, you know.
And you know, there is still a keepout kind of
attitude of about it, but it's getting better. And Sudar
were very good. I found with Sun and I really
like the poster that they presented, you know, and the
way they presented it. You know, that was the first
(28:08):
time I ever had that. And same with Never Grow Old.
I think that was presented in the wrong way as
well as this kind of action western, which it definitely
wasn't and they definitely didn't make and I know everyone
was on the same page as me when we were
making it. This is not an action Western. This is
something different, you know, but it was presented as that,
especially by the American distributors, as an action kind of movie,
and it's not. And the problem with that is the
(28:30):
people who should be watching it don't get to see it,
and then the people who shouldn't be watching it, who
might not, who might understand the more deliberately paced the
kind of a western, more of a drama that would
sort of maybe a gothic horror elements. They're expecting something different,
They're expecting to showt them up, which is not you know.
So this poster or this publicity is selling to the
(28:52):
wrong people and it just doesn't work, you know. So
I think it's very important to always for them to
engage with the filmmaker, you know. So on my next one,
I'm hoping that will happen.
Speaker 5 (29:03):
Let's see, do you find And I especially noticed this.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
I have family in the States, and you know, I
go back and forth quite a bit, and I try
to get involved in I guess the genre in the
States as well as much as I can. And anytime
I mentioned being from Ireland, the canal always comes up
and really yeah, and like so many people are like, oh,
it's you know, I love that movie. Do you find,
(29:28):
you know, when you make something like that and it
resonates specifically, like obviously with the horror community, even I suppose,
you know, even if we move up to more recent
times with some and things like that, do you still
get that thing where I don't know, you get maybe
pigeonholed in meetings in the sense of like, okay, so
you know, what else have you got? And then maybe
(29:48):
you tell them something the goyah. Can you make it
more like the Canal? Can you make it more like son?
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah? Well no, I mean it was funny with the Canal.
Although it did very it did really well in Americas, see,
you know, at festivals and stuff like that, and when awards,
I think play got great, amazing reviews. I had a
lot of meetings with production companies after, you know, like
blumhou so Alid that made majors. You know, they all
said they loved the Canal, you know, And but I
(30:15):
found when I was pitching them with these what they
were pretty much saying was we love the Canal, but
please don't make something like the Canal again. You know.
It was a little too extreme for them, you know,
it was it pushed things a little too far for
the American sensibilities, I think, you know. And then so
they were kind of holding me back a bit, I found,
you know, and which is really strange because the reason
(30:36):
they loved it is because the film went there, went
places that or their horse RUMs didn't go to. But
at the same time they were afraid to go there themselves,
you know. So it was the opposite reaction actually, And
they still say they loved the canal, but don't want
me to make anything like that again in America.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Do you so? Yeah, obviously.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Then the water Bottle Tour, by the sounds of it,
I've heard about this infamous water Bottle Tour so many times,
you know, when you go on there and just even
hear from an audience standpoint, you're mentioned and names like
Blumbhouse and I'm sure the rest of the studios.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
As a professional, is that kind.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Of an exciting slash daunting experience to be like, I'm
meeting like all these people from those companies that we
hear about on this side of the world all the time.
And then also, I guess looking back on that now,
you know, I've heard so many times as well that
a lot of those meetings are you get really excited
(31:29):
in your head, but then soon realize when you walk away,
you're like, ah, okay, this is just this is what
we do.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, Americans today, American producers and companies, they complement you
to death, you know. Yeah, but nothing ever comes a
bit usually, you know, but sometimes it does. I mean,
after I made the canal that BBC Worldwide kime to
me and they asked me, had the any ideas for
horror film series? And I wrote an adaptation of the
Turn of This Crew by Henry James, the ghost story
you know said in Venice and the Modern Times. You know,
(31:58):
it was a sixth part TV series. So what we
They flew me to Los Angeles and we pitched to
all the networks. So I went to all the offices
of went I think, we went to Bloomhouse, we went
to HBO, we went to Stars, we went to show Time,
we went to Fox. We went into them all and
they all said they loved it, but only one picked
(32:19):
it up, you know, so and that was the very
first one we pitched. We pitched too, so some of
them mean that, some of them don't. But they're usually
all very complimentary and It's usually very easy to pitch
to them because they are so nice and enthusiastic about it,
you know, But it doesn't mean they're going to buy
it either, you know, but they have a lot. It's
strange with TV. I haven't had a good experience with TV. Really.
They have unlimited money and they don't care if they
(32:41):
drop projects, you know, so it's very disorientating, you know.
It's I wrote these six six episodes, but they decided
a network which was Universal, and they decided they weren't
going to any going to make limited series anymore, only
continuing series, and ours was limited, so they decided to
shelve it. So like two years of three years of
work went down the drain, you know, which was that
(33:01):
was a hard lesson, you know, but it's just part
of the business, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
I actually spoke with someone earlier this week that mentioned
something similar about like some of these companies seem to
have just like unlimited resources where they just like it's
like they batch buy things for fear that maybe other
companies might take it, it might do well, and then
they're just willing to just like dump put on the shelf.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Somewhere and go, oh well, We're just never going to
do anything with that.
Speaker 3 (33:26):
What was so heartbreaking about this was that although they
didn't want to make it, they also didn't want us
to pitch the other networks, so we couldn't do anything
with it, you know, which was really heartbreaking, you know.
But luckily I had the Western coming up, so I
just went straight onto that. But it wasn't as if
my whole life was depending on this TV series. But
it was a hard lesson, and to be honest, it
was one of the best writing experiences I ever had.
(33:48):
Their notes were fantastic, it was roses all the way,
you know, But then they just didn't make it. And
it's nothing personal. It's just they don't make the majority
of what they fund to Royce. You know. That's just
the way it is. You know.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
Is that difficult as a you know, because obviously I'm
sure you grew up a fan, You're still an audience
member to a degree as well as you know, a
creator in the space.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Is it difficult though?
Speaker 4 (34:10):
You know, when you get into those situations not to
jump the gun, Like I feel like if I was
to maybe be put in some of those rooms that
like instantly I'd be like, yeah, I'll just say yes,
it's universal.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I'll just say yes to whatever.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
And you know, I've heard some horror stories where people
said maybe they didn't take the right people with them,
or they didn't kind of sit themselves down before the
water Bottle tour and kind of.
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Say right, I need to like relax here for a second.
And they were willing to nearly.
Speaker 5 (34:37):
Give anything or anything just to be you know involved.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yeah, no, I mean that that didn't happen. Mate. It
was only if only one company came back and bought it.
You know. It wasn't as if they said, well, we'll
take it on the spot. And they never say that
even the company at the ended up buying it. They
just listen. They say thanks for coming in, will have
an internal meeting about it, and we'll get back to you.
Usually they say no, but one of the music says yes.
But so that never happened with me.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
Just to go back to something you mentioned earlier about
you know, being completely self taught and the idea of
film school. I don't know where you sit on this
idea or not, but I feel like now, you know
a lot of people say, oh, well, everybody has an
iPhone in their pocket, you can shoot on that, you
can do a lot of cool things and unique things
with that show your creativity. But then on the other side,
(35:27):
I feel like maybe as things have advanced, a lot
of places have gotten more like, Okay, what school did
you go to, what credential do you have?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
What piece of paper have you got?
Speaker 5 (35:36):
Where do you sit on the importance of that?
Speaker 2 (35:38):
And do you think.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
That's Can you still get your foot in the door
by just showing who you are or do you need
to do that and also have a piece of paper
from a place to say.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Oh, yeah, you know, he's past the test.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
No.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
I mean, for me, if I'm a hurrying people, I
don't care where skilled I went to. I just want
to see their work. You know. If I'm hiring an actor,
I don't care where they went to and I just
want to see their show real or their audition tape
or whatever, and I picked them through that. I mean,
that's for me personally, that's what I do. I mean,
if a cinematographer comes to me and they show me
a show real, let's say you're amazing, You're heard, I
don't care what if they went to Dunleary or New
(36:16):
York or whatever you know, NYU or whatever, if they're talented.
But that's just me, you know. As far as being
a filmmaker and a director, you either you are a filmmaker,
you know, you just have to convince other people you are.
It's just when you if you present a body work
to some two people, then there's it's undeniable. What do
you need credentials for? Here's Mike Crogensles, here's my proof
(36:36):
of concept. Here's what I can do. Do you want
to be involved or don't you want to be involved?
Fine by me. If you don't, to move out to
someone else, you know, And that's the way I always talk.
But that's just me. You know. Whether maybe if more technicians,
maybe they do need to go to film school, maybe
it is better as a cinematographer to go to film
school to learn lighting and stuff like that. So it's
all very individual. And if you read enough biograph freezed
(37:00):
up filmmakers, nobody has ever done it the same way.
Everyone has been different, you know, And someone dropped out
of film school like the John Carpenter. John Carpenter dropped
out of film school to make Dark Star. David Lynch
went to film school and he used his time in
film school to make a short and then began eraser
heads and Scorsese went to film school, and but others didn't,
(37:22):
you know, the early guys certainly didn't, you know. So
it's all individual. But if you have a body of
work and he's something that's you can prove to someone,
I can make movies, then you don't need any piece
of paper. And I certainly have never ever heard anyone
based on where they went to school or what progenitals
they have ever.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
And it's funny you said that, because I've heard multiple
times as well that, like, you know, people, if you're
lucky enough to have the opportunity to go to film school.
I've heard of from a couple of different people who
are like, I literally just used it to ingrain myself
in the community and get connections with other people, and Okay,
I need a you know, a dop, I need an editor,
(38:03):
I needed this, I needed that, and this person is
into this, and just kind of building that little family
was nearly more important than like anything they actually learned
per se or pieces of paper they got at the end.
If you had to restart everything today at the start
of twenty twenty five, how would you go about it?
You know, in I guess the modern day I.
Speaker 3 (38:25):
Go about was exactly the same way. Because that's I
would have got lost in film school. I would have
been that guy in the corner who was the quiet
guy in the corner, you know, because I'm not the
gregarious type in a crowd. I hate that stuff. I'm
not that particularly social. When I need to be, I
am film like to you know, talk to exex or
whatever you know, or on a sense I particularly am.
(38:47):
But I would have been lost in film school. You know,
if it was a film school where only a certain
person gets to be director, I wouldn't have been picked,
you know. So I knew that. I knew I had
to go my own way, and I knew I had
to do it my own way way. I was making
solons now today. I mean, I'd get my own editing software,
you know, I'd if I had to use my camera
on my phone, I would. I think psychologically it's better
(39:09):
to have a camera, you know, rather than a phone,
because there's so troll away and anyone can do that.
But people have made amazing stuff on my phones as well.
I just get any camera. I'd get editing equipment and
I begin no matter what, and the first few I mean,
and I just sure orson wells or something. The first
couple are not going to be good, and people are
probably saying it's not good. But just keep going, you know,
(39:29):
because even if it's not, the first few short films
or whatever you make are very good, then it's a
good lesson for the next one, and the next one
and the next one. Just keep working, don't stop, don't
listen to anyone, and keep making films. You know, and
learn the skills. Learn what makes good sound, learn where
to put the mic, learn how to light people. So
when you come to me, when you come to be
(39:51):
on the film set with a real crew, then you
have a grounding in all departments, so you know how
to talk to someone. And there will be people who
are lazy and say you can't do it that way,
or who are stuck in their way of doing things,
and you say, no, I want to do this because
I've done this before and this is how you do it,
and this is how I want to do it. So
for me, I do it exactly the same way. But
(40:12):
that's just me. Someone i else might completely thrive in
the film school environments.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
You know, I have one or two quick questions before
I let you go today. Do you have any comfort
horror movies? You know, movies that you would find yourself.
They kind of sit the top the list as like,
I don't know, ones you put on in the background
when you're doing something else, or you rewatch them several times.
Speaker 2 (40:31):
I don't like to ask what's your favorite movie, because.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
I feel like it can be quite difficult, it can
change throughout your life. But as regards just comfort ones
that you enjoy to just put on over and over.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Yeah, yeah, I know exactly what you mean when you
mean comfort horror movies. I've had so many of them
over the years. You know, it used to be de Shining.
I mean I must have watched that three or four
hundred times. I don't know, it's just to have it on,
just to watch the shots, just what you've seen or something.
But I feel like that's, you know, it's it used
to be like when I started watching and I start
(41:02):
watching it in nineteen ninety, which was ten years after
it came out, and I remember the first time I
watched it and it was very It wasn't particularly well
received at the time, and even during nineteen ninety it
wasn't having that big of following, so it felt like
a secret that I had, and I loved it. I
didn't care what anyone else taught. And then because it's
become more popular over the years and everyone, even someone
who isn't even the horror movie, says it's their favorite
(41:23):
horror movie now. Yes, So I kind of went off
that one, and lately I've been watching it because it's
good fun and I love the skill of the technical
skill of watching that. I've loved them dragged me to
hell with the Sam Raimi movie, which I think is
great fun and it's genuinely scary and it's very inventive
as a great ending night of the demon. There's another one,
the one from the fifties and the Jacques Turneuur film.
(41:46):
I just love the atmosphere of that. Eraser Head used
to be another one when I just had the VAH yes,
used to have this terrible vhgenis but something about the
terrible quality of it added to it for the midnight
movie kind of quality to that film, you know. But
I haven't watched that in quite a while, so I
go through phases, you know, But right now it's struck
me to hell, which cures me up, and very inspiring,
(42:08):
and it's kind of thing you can dip into and
dip out all and it's very inventive.
Speaker 2 (42:12):
It's funny.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
I've had this conversation a lot recently, and I've had
some filmmakers come back and say, you know what, I
would actually nearly prefer my work to be considered a
comfort movie for many people rather than it you know,
be oh, this is the best movie of the year,
and then nobody ever speaks about it again. You know,
we get some of these movies that I suppose when
(42:33):
they came out there so many they were just a
blip on the map, and nobody thought that they were
ever going to be anything. And now we're sitting here
in twenty twenty five talking about them still among lots
of other people as well. Who are I could talk
to you all day? I know you're busy, man, you
have stuff to do. Where can people I suppose find
you or best support you now if they want to
kind of keep you know, keep an eye on what's
(42:54):
coming next.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
Just to look out in the trades, whatever variety stuff
like that. You know, I should have a big announcement
coming up pretty soon. We're aiming to begin prep on
one in during on July. Fingers crossed. Films do fall
apart all the time. I have several films in the works,
you know. I've learned that over the years you need
to double many projects because many won't happen, you know.
But I think I have four feature films that are
(43:17):
in various stages of the development and pre production. So
one of them is abound to happen this year. So
as far as social media goes, I'm on Instagram, but
I'm not a very good instagrammer. I don't keep up
with it that much, and I don't update it that much.
But occasionally I do. With there's a good article online
about one of my films or something like that, and
certainly there's an announcement about my next film, I will
(43:38):
put it up there, you know. So Instagram is the
only one. I'm not on Facebook or Twitter or any
of those things.
Speaker 4 (43:43):
So for everybody listening, whether it's video or audio, all
the links to Ivan's movies, I'll find the links. They'll
be all in the description down below, as well as
his Instagram and a few other bits.
Speaker 5 (43:52):
Final question, then, before I let you go? Is why
horror and what does it mean to you?
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Well, it came in. My early films were more experimental
or dramas or family dramas, you know, but there was
attention and I dreaded them. That was lent itself very
naturally to horror. You know. I made a film called
A Fading Light, which did amazingly well at festivals all
over the world and won many awards and won the
Best Film at the Double Film Festival. But I couldn't
(44:18):
get funding for a similar film after it, you know.
So I said, I'm gonna have to find a different
having you in a different way in and if there's
a way I could do that by through genre, by
making something as personal at the same time, I could
do that. And I love horror movies. I've always loved
horror movies. And I thought I'll try and write a
horror movie. And then I wrote The Canals and I
presented that to Screen Ireland and they loved it and
(44:41):
it went from there. So I wasn't a plan for
me to become a horror movie director, you know. And
you do kind of get pigeonholes sometimes as that. I've
been lucky. I made other type of movies as well,
but I love horror and you know, but I did
come in it from the kind of sideways and I
didn't plan it that way, and then people want more
of the same then after and I just nude from
there of course.
Speaker 4 (45:01):
Like I said, it's been a pleasure, it's been great
chatting to you. I'd love to do it again. Maybe
when some of these things get announced in the second
half of this year, I would love to revisit maybe
chat again. And like I said, for everybody, the links
to Ivans movies will be down below on the descriptions,
so check them out. And yeah, like I said, thanks
for all the best and Ye'll see you soon.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
Thanks for having me, Thank.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
You, thanks for listening to another episode of Class Horror Cast.
Stop the CHC podcast at classharror cast dot com, at
first Class Horror, on Instagram to talk and YouTube, or
on Twitter and Class Underscore Horror. The CC podcast is
(45:42):
hosted and produced by Aaron Doyle and is an fch production.
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