The Final Destination Legacy: Nostalgia & Nightmares with Jeffrey Reddick

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You can run, but you can die from the Class
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Please you were about you Hunter the Theater of the Man.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Enjoy the show, Jeffrey, Welcome to the show. You're one
of the guests that's been on my like most guests,
for for years now, so it's a pleasure to have
you on.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Oh thank you. You could have reached out to me earlier.
I'm pretty.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
You know what I was shocked by, I think from
a fan and an audience perspective, how approachable everybody is
in a way when you just got like, you know, yeah, cool,
I'm down. You know, I'm free X time and I'm like,
oh okay, scots it yeah.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
I mean again, if it weren't for the fans, you know,
there would be no Final Destination two, three, four or
any of the other films I've done. So I always
loved talking to say horror podcasts and if we.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Could go back to the start for a second, when
did you first become introduced to the dark, the scary horror.
Maybe maybe it isn't even a horror movie. Maybe it's
a TV show. Maybe it's a cartoon or something you
saw as a kid that scared you.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
The first thing that I saw, I still remember it vividly,
was a Salem's Lot miniseries, and my mom wouldn't let
me watch it, but she watched it, so I out
and watched part of it, and I saw the scene
where Danny Glit comes up to the window and is
scratching on it, and that scenes scared. That scared me
so bad that I had to sleep in my mom's
I just sneak in my mom's room asleep by her bed,

(01:45):
and my sister. Mom shared a big bed, and so
my sister knew that I was doing that, so she
would bring shit to bed and throw it at me
here are the nights because she knew I couldn't think
because Mom would whip me for watching the movie. So yeah,
that was the first. Yeah, that's still burned in my mind.
I startmember sneaking down the hall and watching it. Then
I got so scared.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Did that would you say up peaked your fascination or
did you kind of push back and kind of get away.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
It peaked it.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
I became a you Stephen King fan after that and
started reading his books and also was very into Greek
and Roman mythology, which was very violent as well. So yeah,
I think that that Siam's Lot piqued my interest. And
then probably in when I was about twelve or thirteen,
I met some really small, like two really good friends

(02:36):
who were into horror, and they would let us watch
rated our horror films. And my mom didn't like it much,
but she's at least I know that you're at each
other's houses and you're not getting into trouble. So that
was her like rationale for letting us watch it. So
we would just watch. We would just look for the
bloodiest glorious movies we could find, until I saw Nightmare

(02:58):
and Elm Street, which changed my life. Hey, up until then,
it was just blooded gore. Yeah, that's all we cared about.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
What was that experience like seeing something like a Nightmare
Elm Street. Because you know, obviously from my point of view,
I'm in my mid tarties, so you know, when I
had seen that, I think I had seen probably you know,
dumb Bunny Freddy before I had seen like the scary Freddy.
So then when I went back to see The Scary Freddy,

(03:25):
I don't know if it had the same effect.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
No, it was terrifying because it was it was a
double feature of Alone in the Dark and like right
Elm Street. And I didn't realize it at the time,
but I read later that Pritt had got washed out
before the film came out. So when I saw the
preview on TV, it looked a little cheap, and so
it was kind of like, eh, I'm not it doesn't
look very good. I grew up in Kentucky and we

(03:50):
were too poor to go to the movies a lot.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
So me and my.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
Friend sat on his dad's frock because he lived behind
the dry band, and we turned the CB stationed to
the channel where you could listen to the sound. And
so I'm watching Alone in the Dark and I'm like, oh,
this is pretty good, and then Freddie came on and
it blew my mind just he was terrifying. You know,

(04:14):
I hadn't really you know, Trope hadn't hit me yet,
so I thought Tina was gonna live and then she
got killed and then you know, I still think to
this day, well not to this day, it's changed someone.
But I think up until that point, Nancy Thompson was
probably the strongest Final Girl that I'd ever seen, because
up until then, as much as I love the actresses,

(04:38):
most of them kind of ran around and screamed and
were the last one standing and they and this was
the first time I saw a really proactive final girl,
like studying Freddie going after him in the dream world
point like he was just and then Robert England was great.
There was just and every set piece is like a mate,
like it's just a yeah, it's it blew my mind,

(04:58):
like I literally I I went home and I wrote
a prequel idea I'm like fourteen years old against Ikey,
and I mailed it to Bob Shay, who ran New
Line Cinema at the time, and he sent it back
because it was unsolicited. And then I sent it back
because I'm like, look, buddy, I spent like three dollars
on your movie, so I think he can read my story.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
And he got back to me and you know, yeah,
this was right before New Line.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
I think it was just a perfect convergence because this
was right before New Line blew up, and I stayed
pinpals with him and his assistant joy Mann from age
fourteen to nineteen, and they would read scripts and they
would send me posters, and I ended up working at
Newline when I moved to New York and they made
final destinations. So that movie not only changed my perception

(05:45):
of horror films and what they could be, because I'm
very big into like fantasy horror, but it also was
so crucial to like my career.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
So it's hard to separate separate the two.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
What was that like to come full circle there with
you know, sending a script like that from just a
really harmless place as a teenage kid to then I
suppose sitting in those offices and something that you've helped
create is a is being made by that same company.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
I mean it was, I mean it was surreal. But
when you're you know, when you're young, you have this
kind of I wasn't like this crafty, you know, like
I always knew I.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Was going to work in the film industry, like from
a young age, Like that was just never like I
had no plan. B I majored in theater, you know,
and I told my mom I was studying science until
I got into plays, and then I had to invite
her so getting to work at New Line was cool enough,
and I got to see, you know, I read so
many great scripts and met so many wonderful people there.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
I was there eleven years.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
And it's funny because I sold the treatment for Final
Destination in ninety seven and wrote the original first draft
of that, and the movie came out in two thousand,
which was you know, the shooting script was written by
James Walling Glenn Morgan. They did a great job in

(07:12):
adding a lot of great stuff, you know, because my
original take was very nightmare and Elm Street, you know,
where death played with their survivor's guilt to make them
kill themselves, which is a little dark. And you know,
James and Glenn when they wrote the shooting script, they
added the ru Goldberg aspect, which I thought was brilliant
because it definitely made it more palpable to people who

(07:32):
aren't horror fans.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
But yeah, I was there, you know, still working as.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
We were getting in the reviews and as we saw
it become a sleeper hit, and then I wrote a
treatment for.

Speaker 3 (07:43):
The sequel that New Line in bod and then finally.

Speaker 4 (07:46):
They were like, you're we love you, Jeffrey, but you're
like a professional writer now, So yeah, you need to
go out and write. You need to leave the nest
because I was just like, I'll just stay here and work,
and I don't know what I was thinking.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
I'm a very creature of habits.

Speaker 4 (07:59):
So I just felt so lucky to be at the
house that Freddie built and also be a part of
the New Line legacy that that I probably would have
just stayed there, you know.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
So what do you think that that is about you?
And the that I suppose made you like that at
that point? You know, you said you always knew you
would work in in the movies, and having that you
know that, I guess desire that knowledge that confidence and
older is not nuts. This is what I want to do.
But then also, you know, being quote unquote like obviously,

(08:36):
when something like that happens, you become a professional writer
and people have to kind of go, now now it's
time to leave this job and what you're going to
do now?

Speaker 4 (08:44):
Yeah, No, I think, you know, I do think that's
you know, certain people have a calling in life, you know,
and and all you know, you know, I acting was
my first love actually, but when I moved to New
York in the in the early nineties diverse city. It
was just not on anybody's radar, Like I got an
agent really quickly. But she's, look, you're like an ethnic

(09:07):
Michael J. Fox, you know, like an ethnic boy next door.
And I'm like, well, that's great. Everybody loves Michael Bay Fox.
She's like, yeah, but they don't write roles for people
like that.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
You know, you're dark skinned, you know. And she wasn't
being main She's being real.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
She's you know, if you could rap, or if you
could you know, play basketball, or could break dance and
stuff like, you know, maybe there's a you know, some
work out there, but it's just really hard. So instead
of giving up, I just said, well, you know, writing
is my second favorite thing besides acting, so I'm just
gonna just going to write. So I just you know,
that was just always my calling. I think, you know,

(09:43):
we always have them, but the world, you know, but no,
we don't always happen. Sometimes we don't know what we
want to do till much later in life, you know,
especially when you want to be like an artist.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
They certainly try to beat that out of.

Speaker 4 (09:54):
You at a young age, like, oh, you'll never make
a living at that You're gonna you know, if you're
you know, odds of you ever working is astronomical, So
you need to get a real job, and you need
to have a backup plan, and I just never had
a backup plan.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
I was gonna ask how did you deal with that?
In life? It's something I'm always fascinated by with people
who get into the arts or something creative, and especially
something I think in film especially, it can be quite
volatile because you know, a lot of people don't realize that,
you know, you might spend several years of your life
with a project that all of a sudden gets picked up.

(10:29):
It seems like everything's going great, and then it sits
on a shelf. Oh yeah, nothing happens. But how did
you deal with I guess that that pushback from maybe
I don't know, maybe friends, maybe family, and I think
a lot of times people don't even realize they're maybe
doing it from a good place. But that thing had
been like, you know, Jeffrey, when maybe it's time to
get like a real job, maybe let's not do this anymore.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
Well, luckily I started working at Newline when I was nineteen,
so I did. So my mom was like, oh okay,
but working at a studio and seeing how the movies
were made helped help me a lot in knowing that
it wasn't really always and I oftentimes it wasn't about

(11:12):
the quality of the work. It was like so many
other factors that you have no say in. So for instance,
like we would get like a really great script in
with no director attached, and then we'd get a very
mediocre script in with a big director attached and a star,
so they would make the mediocre script over the great script.

(11:33):
I will say that New Line, especially in its heyday
when I was there, which was I think it's heyday,
was very greater friendly and very risk They would take risks.
You know, they made Blade when people are like, who
wants to see a black vampire?

Speaker 3 (11:48):
You know, Hunter? And they made Blade.

Speaker 4 (11:49):
And then they would make like The Mask, which studios
were like, Who's going to see a movie with this
crazy guy wearing a green mask and doing crazy stuff?
And he was gonna make Dumb and Dumber and he
was gonna make House Party, Who's gonna make Friday?

Speaker 3 (12:01):
So New Line back then was run by.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
Creatives, so it's a very nurturing environment, but you still
saw the business side of it, which is really out
of your control. So that helped me kind of set
a baseline for myself where I don't get crushed because
I did read a quote. I forget who said it,
but they said, you have to be willing to dedicate
ten years of your life if you want to be

(12:25):
an artist before you make it. And when they say
make it, they don't mean all of a sudden you're like,
you know, have a big blockbuster movie coming out.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
They're talking about anything happening.

Speaker 4 (12:34):
And I think the reason that that resonated with me
is because you do have to be willing to commit
like that long like that. That passion has to be
that strong where you're like, Okay, I'll take shitty waiter
jobs and I'll you know, I'll, but I'm going to
stick with it.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
And it was.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
Actually ten years till the day I graduated high school
that I sold Final Destination, so I'd starts to stop
suff that.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
So I was like, screw this ten year thing.

Speaker 4 (13:02):
Because I was getting some background work and stuff in movies,
and I was like I got an age of realise.
I'm like, this is going to be a breeze and
then reality hits in it, you know, and I'm like, oh,
there is something of that ten year rule because I
see a lot of people who and obviously the landscape
has changed so much since I was that new line.
But you know, you see so many people who just
come in and they're like, I'm coming to LA and

(13:24):
if I don't make it in two years, I'm going home.
And I'm like, well, you might as well go home,
you know, like if because there's so many people trying
to break into the business. There are people that are
have connections that if you don't have connections that, you know,
that's something you have to work on. And there's a
lot of pretty but not talented people that are coming

(13:45):
up trying to make it, and so you have to
you have to, as my old boss said, you have
to cut through the clutter. So that means you have
to kind of like outlast all these people who are
kind of coming in like for a year and a
half to give it a shot, you know.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Yeah, And I always love to ask these questions because
I feel like they're very important for you know, a
lot of people to hear the realities I guess of
you know, of how it all works. Do you find
being in LA that is that still a thing. I
remember years ago hearing you know, of all the people
that would arrive to LA weekly just so Green had

(14:23):
no idea thought, oh, you know, within a few weeks,
I'll be made. Does that still kind of happen or
have you know, like people like yourself kind of gotten
the realities of the message out there enough that people go, Okay,
I can't just you know, arrive on a plane and
hope to be on the red carpet tomorrow.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
No. And and the thing is LA the whole industry
has shifted now. So there's there's so many markets that
are you know, yeah, Texas, you know, Atlanta, Louisiana.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
There's so many.

Speaker 4 (14:55):
I mean, if you if you're interested in being a
filmmaker or an actor or whatever, I suggest you look
at your states like film commission if they have one,
and see what stuff is going on in your own state,
because there have been productions that moved away from LA
because it's really become unless you're like super rich, it's
become cost prohibitive to make movies out here, even with

(15:16):
tax even if they bring up the tax credits, people
are so used to shooting in LA that you have
to go through all these permits you have to pay.
You have to pay so much to shoot at a location,
whereas if you shoot in your hometown or you shoot
in your home state, you know, people are very excited
and very incentivized to help out. So I don't think

(15:38):
you have to come to LA Actually, I would say,
just because it's so expensive.

Speaker 3 (15:44):
Really, the cost of living out here is so expensive.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
I always tell people, I think it's better to sur
find your.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Tribe, like locally.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
Like I was talking with Craig Perry, who's the producer
of All the Fifth and the godfather of the funnel
Ucination franchise.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
I adore the man.

Speaker 4 (16:02):
And we were speaking at a class here at UCLA,
and it was all filmmakers and he was talking and
he's like, how many of you all are writers? And
all bunch of peop rais are in. How many of
you all are directors? They raise are in. He goes,
how many of you writers and directors talk to each other?
And none of them did because all the writers were
hanging out with writers and the directors hang out directors.

(16:24):
And he goes, that's the problem, Like writers, you need directors, directors,
you need writers. You guys should be talking to each other.
And that's what I tell filmmakers. It's you know, I mean,
don't just go out and hook up with any Tom
Dick or hair that comes along.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
You got to do your due diligence.

Speaker 4 (16:38):
But you know, if you find like actors that you
really like, or you find a director you really like,
and you know, you find a team that you really
you know, start making your own I know it's hard
and people hate when you when I say this, but
you know, start making your own stuff. You know, start
start building your resume, start learning because you're always learning.
It doesn't matter if you you know, move out to

(16:59):
Holly when and sell a script. You're always learning and growing.
So I always say, you definitely don't have to come
to LA to start doing what you want to do.
There might be a point where you move out to LA,
but you don't have to come out here to make it.

Speaker 2 (17:15):
I've heard that so much more and more now, which
I guess will be quite a nice thing for you know,
a lot of European UK filmmakers and things like that.
I think from from this side of the world. For
a long time, it felt, you know, if if you're
not in Hollywood, if you're not in LA You're you're
not in the community. I guess how important would you

(17:36):
say is it for you now nowadays with your work,
that that sense of networking and you know, maybe chatting
with up and common writers or you know, somebody has
an idea or a new director, this guy wants you
to hear about his project. Would you say that's an
important part of your your day to day career.

Speaker 4 (17:55):
Now, I'm sure Well, to be honest, like working on
right now is trying to.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Because I've had a very steady career.

Speaker 4 (18:05):
But you know, people kind of have this weird idea
of you know what, you know, having successful careers, Like
in Hollywood, you like you don't understand. You know, you
get paid like one hundred thousand dollars for a script.
Twenty five percent of that goes out to your agent, manager,
and lawyer. Then you've got taxes on top of that.

(18:27):
So and now with streaming, the residual market is really
almost right up now. So what I'm working on now
is that I decided this year because I've spent a
lot of time and I love doing it. I've spent
a lot of time like helping friends and indie filmmakers,
especially from my home state of Kentucky, like trying to
get their movies off the ground, and my agents were like, dude,

(18:49):
you got to focus on your on you and getting
your you know, you know, I want to start a
production company. My goal in the next year and to
have to start a production company where I'll be in
a better position to help people because right now it's
like I'm really not allowed to read scripts just because
of legality stuff like everything has to come through an agent,

(19:10):
to my agent, and I do get I do get
a lot of Twitter messages and Instagram messages of people
who are like, I have a great concept, will you
read it and maybe help me write it, and it's
I can't do that, just again for copyright and legal protections.

Speaker 3 (19:26):
For me and the writers.

Speaker 4 (19:27):
But also you know, I'm I do this for a living,
so if I'm gonna write something, I need to I
need to get paid for it.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Yeah, yeah, of course, but I always do.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
I do what I can. As far as you know.

Speaker 4 (19:40):
I did a film like a screenwriting online course.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
I'm blanking on the name of it right now.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
It's easy to find if you google it, but it's
free on YouTube, so I always try to, like, you know,
do as many podcasts, speak at as many places and
as I can, to like give advice and really about
how the industry has changed, because it's right now we're
in a really tough place because we had COVID, then
we had the strikes and then the fires, and people

(20:09):
just aren't paying what they use. Like when I say
New Line was the golden age, Like back then, you know,
people would show it like a million bucks for a script,
and now it's like you can make a five million
dollar movie and good luck getting a distributor unless you've
got like a big star in it.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
It's you know, it's just it's turned out. It's just
turned around.

Speaker 4 (20:27):
So it's you know, that's why I think in indie
films and that's why I love horror. I think horror
has the best options to find audiences. And you know,
like I think the Terrifier model is a great example.
You know, God loved for all the work he's put
into that because he turned it into from a smaller

(20:49):
character and anthology to building this whole you know, franchise
around him, and it took him a long time.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Like people, you.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
Know, we're all excited for how well the last one.
But he has been working at this for a long time,
so he's hard, blood, sweat and tears to make that happen.
And you know, so so yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
I don't know, you don't have to be here.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
I try to mentor more through advice, you know, because
I meet a lot of because I work at Starbus,
I mean work at I write at Starbucks, so I
meet a lot of writers there, and a lot of
my friends are actors and writers. So I'm I'm trying
to help them, and but I also focus on myself.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
So you know, I definitely am and am open.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
But I also realized, especially at this point with the
twenty fifth anniversary of Fun a Less Nation coming up,
I've got five projects that I'm like trying to really
get off the ground and going this year.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
We'll see if it happens. I'm staying optimistic.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, I was just going to say, how challenging is
that now trying to get a project off through and
because you mentioned a lot of the dynamic has changed
now it's not that same golden era. And I've heard,
you know, behind the scenes, I've been told some like
insulting numbers that have been given or been put forward
to people for projects or scripts or whatever, and I'm

(22:09):
like shocked, thinking, you know, okay, maybe it was. I
didn't expect it to be like, you know, Golden Age money,
but I was like, wow, I didn't expect it to
be like to go from here to like.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
It's it's got, it's gotten. There's there's always.

Speaker 4 (22:24):
This thing where people, the people with the money don't
want to spend it, so they will definitely try to
squeeze every you know, free rewrite out of you.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
That they can and not pay you much money.

Speaker 4 (22:38):
Saying no is a very powerful thing, which you know
I I tend to be a people pleaser, so I
had a I've had a hard time saying no, but
then appro and I've finally been like, no, if you
guys aren't gonna pay me what I'm worth and I
don't mean and don't trust me, it's not a lot.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
Trust me.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
I'm pretty cheap. But you know, the the numbers that
have come in sometimes are incredibly insulting. I've been working
on this one project for three years now and I'm
not even going to tell how much they paid me,
but let's just say it was ten thousand dollars and
it's been a three year process, and I'm like that,

(23:15):
you know that it's because it's taking them so long
to get stuff together, and so you expect a lot
of people, you know, people have the attitude, well, you
should be lucky that you're working, so why should we
pay you? You should be lucky you're working. Like that
just seems to be an attitude that is very prevalent.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
Do you find that, given like you just said, given
the landscape now and maybe there's a lot of you know,
average to maybe good writers and things like that, and
creators out there that are maybe willing to do it
for next to nothing, that it kind of starts to
mess with the whole structure because I found that I

(23:54):
had a career before I'd done this, and it felt
like a similar thing where you would be like under price,
I think because the answer was always well, you know,
this guy here will do it for half of what
you used to do for, so then what's the problem.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
Yeah, And the thing is there, I have friends who
who make a living writing Hallmark movies. You know, they
crank out like five or six a year and they're
doing fine. But with horror, like, it's not like I
try to write expensive horror films.

Speaker 3 (24:23):
But I've had so many.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
My horror fells get set up at studios and they
go into turnaround and then somebody buys them and then
they make them for you know, half million dollars, and
it's well, there goes another potential franchise the train.

Speaker 3 (24:36):
Not that you can't write a half.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
A million dollar film that can be a franchise. But
most of the stuff that I write, you know, at
least has a decent.

Speaker 3 (24:46):
Budget, not a lot like a I mean Final Destination.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
The first Final Destination and two thousand had a twenty
two million dollar budget. And now if you have anything
over seven million, that's considered a big budget for horror films.
And I'm like, you guys are crazy if you're making
money inside, yeah it is.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
It's a strange thing. And I suppose in your professional opinion,
why do you think it is? Then that? Because I
feel like horror has always been considered like the red
headed stepchild for nearly everything, for the awards, for you know,
I even found over here in Europe for a long
time it was kind of I could never be sure
if I was going to see a you horror movie
because it was like, oh, I don't know which theaters

(25:28):
are going to actually pick this up, and I might
have to drive two hours away to go see this
movie in some obscure the theater. But even as regards
I guess the studios, it's very strange to me, and
it's kind of lost on me how they don't want
to spend any money to make them but then they
make back like this thing of you know, ten million

(25:48):
or less or five million or less, and then the
movie makes you know, one hundred million back And I'm like, so,
what point though, has nobody looked at that went well,
maybe if we actually gave them money that suggested that
this might act. Actually Is it because things like you know,
not take anything away from Terrifier or Damien or any
of those guys. But is it because they see something

(26:08):
like that and they go, oh, well that made you know,
eighty five million and we only spent X amounts?

Speaker 3 (26:14):
I think I think people.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
I think the biggest problem honestly with Hollywood is that
business people have taken over the studios. Like when I
was growing up, like film Look like Again, Bob Shay
was the ultimate film lover, and Mike DeLuca, who was
one of the best executives I think in this business
was a film lover and they took risks and now
you had and I saw it happening. As you know,

(26:37):
New Line got bought by Ted Turner and they got
bought by Warner Brothers. Like they started bringing business people
in into a creative business. So they they are always
looking now, especially because a lot of the studios are
publicly traded now, so they're looking at we have to
make our shareholders money, so they want to protect their investment.

(26:58):
So that's why you see so many rema aches and
sequels and prequels and spinoffs because in their brain it's, well,
there's already built in audience for this. But then they'll
spend two or three hundred million dollars, you know, to
get the biggest stars in a not great movie, and
then when it doesn't do well, they're like, well, we
had the biggest stars in it. Because they're thinking a business.

(27:19):
They're thinking business, not creatively. So I think that that's
been the biggest kind of seismic change in the overall business,
is that we don't have a lot I'm not saying
that none of the studios have creative people running them,
but I'm just saying a lot of the studios that
used to be run by purely creatively driven people with
vision are now you know, they're afraid of taking risk

(27:40):
because if they don't make money for their shareholders, they'll
get sued. So, you know, the kind of business part
of show business has taken over this show entertainment part
of it. So I think that that's that's the biggest
change that I've seen that's kind of been very hurtful
to a you know, creators of original material.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
Is there a way for us, and I mean that
as in the audience, the fans, and I guess coming
together with you guys to change that or is it
a case of we kind of have to maybe potentially
build our own model now where we kind of can
exist outside of that that bubble, I guess. And then

(28:23):
maybe if Hollywood see something and go, you know, like
terrify it for example. Oh well, you know, I heard
Damien say a couple of times that you know, they
wanted to take the property and they wanted to reboot
it and remake it and reimagine it and do all
this stuff. And he kind of held out and said, no, no, no, no, no,
this is my story. This is the way I want
to tell it. So if you want to get in
on it, this is the way we're doing it.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Do you think that there's a way I guess for
horror as a community to come together and kind of
I don't know, make Hollywood come call them.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
I think absolutely. I think that it's twofold.

Speaker 4 (28:57):
I think supporting original horror films is really important. You know,
Companion was very entertaining, but it didn't do what it
should have done. Hard Eyes is the exception, you know,
because most horror movies open and then they dropped fifty percent,
But the word of mouth on that was so great
that it actually did better, So that one's going to
be a word of mouth hits.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
And Final Destination was a word of mouth hit too.

Speaker 4 (29:20):
It opened at number three I think when it came out,
and then we saw the tracking during the week, and
it was actually doing better every day as opposed to
dropping every day.

Speaker 3 (29:30):
So supporting independent.

Speaker 4 (29:32):
Film and talking about it and encouraging your friends to
go out and see it in theaters will definitely help.
But I also think at the same time, you have
to look at ways to kind of create your own
unique films where you don't have to compromise your creativity
because if you sell something to a studio, they own
it and so you roll with what they tell you,

(29:55):
you know, or they'll bring in another writer, you know,
to rewrite your script so you learn to pick your
battles and things like that. But I think with technology now,
especially with you know, you can shoot like a high
definition movie on an iPhone and get lenses for it,
there are ways to make really cool movies that will

(30:16):
find an audience. So I just encourage people to do
that because the thing is, you don't want to let
the business side of stuff like kill your creativity, especially
when you're starting out, because when you're younger, you're kind
of fearless and you're like invincible and you're like, I
can do this, and the longer you kind of get
it when you're in the once you get into the
business side of it, that business side can can start

(30:39):
beating you down, like creatively, because then you start thinking, well,
I've got to write this, but it's got to appeal
to this these people, and it's got to kiel to
this audience, and it's got to and it just yeah,
it gets You have to like consciously kind of keep
that out of your brain and make something that's pure
to you, because I always tell people, like your voice,
like everybody has a different life experience, and if you're

(31:01):
filtering like your perspective through your work, that's gonna make
it different than everything else out there.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Don't try to copy other stuff. That's the worst that
you can do.

Speaker 4 (31:10):
Because by the time a movie comes out and it's
a hit, that thing has been in development probably for
ten years. And so while that movie's been in development
and they're plotting it, like word gets around to other
studios and then they start looking for similar stuff. So
by the time you know, a demonic possession movie comes out,
you'll see four of them come out at the same time,

(31:30):
and everybody's, oh.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
I'm gonna write a demonic possession movie.

Speaker 4 (31:33):
But by the time you write that, yeah, some other
genre subgenre of film is gonna be is making its
way through the system and will come out, and then
demonic movies are going to be like, oh, we've.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Had too many of those. So I always just say,
write what you're really.

Speaker 4 (31:48):
Passionate about and that will be that's your creative voice
and just finding a community to make it.

Speaker 3 (31:56):
And again, I know it's hard. It's hard with you know,
the money part is hard. You know, But.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
After all this time, I guess in the business and it,
you know, it still sounds like the creativity, the passion
to the desire has never really disappeared for you. But
on a I guess some more business y aspect, we
would you say the toughest lesson that you've learned is?

Speaker 4 (32:23):
I think the toughest I think the toughest lesson I've
learned is is even the people, maybe with good intentions,
you just it's hard to find people that you can
trust to stay true to their word, to present themselves accurate.
Rely as far as like I tell people, I am
very honest, like I've been, like even my best friends

(32:43):
who are actors. I'm like, I might be able to
send you real to the casting director, but that's all
I can do. I can't get you an audition. I
can't promise anything. That's I never make promises to anybody.
And this town is full of people. It's just like
the world, you know, in any other business, whereas people
like promise and you know, and if something sounds too

(33:06):
good to be true, it probably is. So you know,
I've gotten screwed over a lot like people that I trusted.
So you know, it's just it's more about now trusting
my instincts because I always joke that somebody, once a
movie goes into production, there are a lot of people
that would throw their mother under a bus to be
a part of it. I've literally had people come out

(33:27):
of the woodworks that I have not talked to in
twenty years and they're like, well, that sounds a lot
like what we talked about one time over lunch, and
I'm like, oh, wow, yeah, just feel like that. You know,
it's come on, dude. So I think that's probably the
toughest lessons you've got to be, you know, Hollywood, and

(33:49):
it's it's no different than life, because you know, people
like your rag on Hollywood, but it's no different than life.
You know, there's professions that are just very transactional, and
you know, I've certainly had burnout points where I'm just like,
I can't write anything more. I've got like a stack
of script like how many more do I have to
fucking write? But then what usually reignites my passion is

(34:12):
either meeting fans at conventions and hearing how you know,
my work has touched them or inspired them. And then
also i'll meet you know, I've been very fortunate in
the last couple of months to meet a couple of
producers who are just super passionate about film, and you know,
we've connected and that's kind of got me reinspired again.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
So it's kind of keeping your You've really got to
you've got to watch.

Speaker 4 (34:34):
Your creative circles because you know, I think every creative
person is a little like crazy in the in the
best possible way, but there are definitely people that are
just like you know, black holes that will try to
like bring you down or just always so negative about
you know, we're never going to make if this town

(34:57):
sucks and this business sucks, and it's like you got
to kind of keep to be body out of your
life because they will end up kind of bringing you
down as well.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
I was actually told that recently by somebody as well.
Having to like make those you know, and whether it's
something that somebody does on purpose or they don't realize
they've gotten into that habit of that constant negativity and
have until I try and distance yourself from that. And
also actually there's been several irish probably more Irish and
some UK that have told me about. You know, they

(35:28):
make a movie, it comes out and win some awards,
It gets played at a couple of festivals in the
States in different places, and you know, next thing they know,
they're on the famous water Bottle tour. And it's like
it's like the thing of kind of what you just said.
You know, everybody's over promising. Everybody's like telling you you're
so great, you're so amazing, We're going to do this

(35:50):
with you. We're going to do that, We're going to
And like the amount of guys that said, you know,
they came back home here and then realized, oh, everybody
just filled me full of shit that none of this Israel.

Speaker 4 (36:01):
Yeah, And I think I think part of the problem
too is there's a lot of people, you know, they
have a job title and so they have to feel it.
So I don't know how many pitch meetings I've been
in where it's I know, this person is just meeting
every writer in town because that's their job. They're not
really I'm not getting a sense this person really is

(36:23):
wanting to make a movie. It's just well, I gotta,
you know, I gotta be able to show my boss.
I had a ton of pitch meetings and yeah, you
did it. You do get a lot of over promising.
I think the one thing that I've always admired about
Europe though, is they do take the arts very seriously,
which I wish we did in this country, because in
this country, it's sports and then arts is the first

(36:44):
thing to go at any school, and it's such a
creative outlet and it's such a I think you would
it helps people like express their feelings and deal with
their emotions and their issues, and it's just a shame.
I think that this country kind of treats it as
like celebrity as opposed to artistry. And that's why I'm

(37:04):
always amazed when I see actors that come out of Europe,
because they really take that the craft seriously.

Speaker 3 (37:10):
It's amazing. I want to I want to move to.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
Your There's definitely been a big shift in I even
seen saying the time I was coming up Thrue school,
it was still considered like I would have been considered
like a little bit of a weirdo for not being
overly interested in sports, being into movies, been into books
and things like that, And now to see it, it's
nearly become like the quote unquote cool thing you know

(37:35):
to want to go into a film course or a
music course. Right, this right that everybody seems to kind
of even the people who maybe warned into it now
are kind of leaning into it a bit and being like, hey,
tell me a little bit more about that thing.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
Remember, it's just culture opening too, because if you go
back to ancient times, like art, art was like celebrated
and and so important, and I think it I think
part of the reason if you just history is you know,
art's always been kind of subversive in a way, so
people would get away with saying things in Shakespeare, you

(38:08):
know that was that we're critiquing the the royalty at
the time, and they didn't realize it. And so I
think art can touch people in a way, like whether
it's music or paintings, you know, because it's it's open
to so much interpretation. And you know, I still have
my song for my childhood that like I connect I

(38:28):
connect with my first crush and my first breakup and
my first you know, like there they art sticks with you,
and there's something I think since you can't control that,
like I think society likes to kind of keep it
down because with sports at least it's you know, you
can make a lot of money.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
You just watch out.

Speaker 4 (38:47):
You go out and watch guys get you know, traumatic
brain injuries and beat the shit out of each other.
So that kind of taps into that very you know
colisseum like bloodthirst, you know, kind of thing that we have,
I think, and you know, artistry is considered more sensitive
and it's but again it's more you're opening yourself up

(39:08):
whenever you do anything, whether it's writing music or painting
or sculpting or even I grew up in Kentucky and
you know, very you know, wood carving was a big
thing is a big thing down there at arts and crafts,
but it's a certain type of arts and crafts like
if you're if you're a wood you know, if you're
crafting like furniture and and and things out of wood,
then that's great. But if you know, if you want

(39:28):
to dance or you know, and it's so yeah, it's
a strange.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
Cultural when you're creating you know, work now or in
you know, in the last couple of years, do you
do you do that now envisioning you know, I don't know,
let's say a twenty million dollar budget and you wanted
to live with a studio or do you have to
be more you know, because I feel like years ago
that was kind of the thing that's majority of people were,

(39:55):
you know, we're writing movies for to live at a studio,
and they wanted it to be this big picture. And
obviously now things have expanded with all the streamers, there's
so many different places for content to live. Do you
have to I guess create with that in mind that
this could potentially end up living anywhere, or do you
have specific projects? Okay, well, this is something I think

(40:15):
could be, you know, maybe a Netflix thing, or this
is something I think that needs to be like a
big blockbuster.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
I mean most of my horror films aren't big, you know,
super big spectacle kind of things. Like I tend to
write more character based stuff, but if I get permission,
you know, like this the last script that I wrote,
I was like, this is a story that I need
to tell, and so I'm not going to worry about
the budget, you know, I'm just gonna write it. And

(40:44):
everybody's like, oh, that's going to be like fifteen million.
You're never going to get that made and I'm like, yes,
I will, But now I tend to write a story
first and not really think about I can't say I
don't think about it because it working at a studio.
I'm sure it's like burrowed in my brain somewhere, but
you know, I just I don't. I haven't found a

(41:08):
story that I can set in a house over one night.
You know, yes, yeah, that's it's not my I wrote
a slasher film, you know, which is great, but most
of my stuff is kind of fantasy horror. So there's
there's gonna be elements that are gonna make it a
little pricey, but still not like twenty million dollars pricey.
So I found if I try to limit myself too much,

(41:34):
it can hurt myself. Like sometimes I'll see movies like
because it's hard, Like how many movies can we set
in a cabin in the woods with something trying to
kill the people in the cabin. But then I'll see
a movie that does a great job at it, and
I'm like, holy shit, that this was a great movie.
So I think if you're it depends on what your
goal is. I think if you're trying to get something made,

(41:55):
which should always be our goal, especially if you're starting out,
because again, you've got to learn. The biggest mistake I
see writers make is that, you know, a first time
writer will be like, this is the best script you
know in the world, and a few times where it's
been a friend of mine where I've read it and
I'm like, it's not even them, you know, they don't
have the structure down. They don't and then and they

(42:17):
don't want to hear any complaints. And I think that
you you have to know, like you know, Meryl Streep said,
she still gets sick, you know, before shooting a movie,
like it's physically people. And that's because if you ever
lose that part of yourself like where I'm this is
a growing experience and I'm you know, and you think

(42:38):
that you're the best in the business, like you're just
some people can get pushed through with bravado, like there
are there are a few people that have done that,
but the ones that kind of have longevity are the
ones that kind of are always willing to grow. You
treat people with respect because and you just as a
human being, you should.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Treat everybody with respect.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
But you know, from a business perspective, you never know
that that assistant that you know, were nice, it was
nice on the phone fifteen years ago is now like
an executive at a studio and she's, oh, yeah, I
remember Jeffrey was great, so sweet.

Speaker 3 (43:13):
So yeah, I'm just like throwing out all kinds of
random advice.

Speaker 2 (43:18):
And that's what people love, though, because I think they
want to hear the I suppose the real aspects of it,
because we're fed so much, you know, I suppose for worse,
probably on social media. You know, you see the fakes
kind of of everything, so it's very hard to you know.
And then I think people get into it with the
intention you know, best intentions, but they believe a certain
thing that they've seen on social media, on YouTube or somewhere.

(43:41):
You know, Well, that's how it is, and that's what
I expect. And then when, like you said, you know,
you get a couple of years in and you get
that cold, hard slap in the face of oh, this
isn't the way I thought it was going to.

Speaker 4 (43:53):
Be now, And the thing is, it never is. Because
you know, so many people I've noticed now are a
lot of the younger generation. They want to be celebrities
as opposed to being artists and that's fine, you know,
I'm not judging people for that. But the people that
watch these kind of influencers, they don't realize like how

(44:15):
you know, again, this isn't any fancy backdrop in my apartment,
but if I turn the camera that where you're this way,
it's like a fucking mess, you know, you know, but
it's all about what's in the frame. And so you'll
see these influencers who are like, you know, on a
yacht and with all this stuff, and you're like, oh,
their life is great, and then you hear their story
and it's, oh, they just murdered their girlfriend and you

(44:36):
know they you know, lost everything in it in bitcoin,
and that you know they're being abused.

Speaker 3 (44:42):
And exploit you know, you don't it's fate.

Speaker 4 (44:45):
It's so much I mean, Hollywood is you know, it's
all about what's in the frame, and it's the land
of dreams, and dreams are obviously.

Speaker 3 (44:54):
Illusion until you make them a reality.

Speaker 4 (44:57):
So I think, you know, social media has been and
also just because it's you know, shown that it's caused
so much like depression, and especially young men because and
because you know, they see these they see these unrealistic
expectations out there and women as well, where you see

(45:17):
these people that are like, I'm living my best life
and it's it's just in the camera. I could I
could do that, I could start an only fans, but
I would just do writing.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
I would It would be very boring, you know.

Speaker 4 (45:29):
But I see so many people like that are just
you know, they're younger, so they're just chasing the instant
gratification and trying to get as much money as they can.
And again that's great, but that's that's different than being
an artist.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
You know.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
Do you think I just just came into my mind
as you were saying that? Do you think that deep down,
like a lot of us know that, but you kind
of don't want to believe that in a sense, you
want to believe that like that, I don't know that
thing you've built up in your head is actually how
it is.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Yes, you know, I mean I I you know I
still you know, you know I still want to you know,
have that you know problem where I have two houses.

Speaker 3 (46:16):
You know, I never have one a big mansion.

Speaker 4 (46:18):
All I want is enough room for guests and I
want to have an in house theater.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
That's all I want. Like that isn't. It's not like
I want one of these twenty million dollars mans.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
Yeah, I'd love a couple of houses and just be
able to do the projects I want to do.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
And once you get to a certain level, you can
do that. But very few people are at.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
That level because of the way that the system, the
studio systems are. You know, you've got Tom Cruises there,
but you know, I was, I can't envy him because
he's worked so hard and he started the Mission Impossible franchise,
like you produce that, and so I mean, you know,
I don't want him to die.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
You know, he needs to quit doing some of those
crazy stuns.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
Yeah, but there's only a few people at his level
that can just walk into a studio and get a
movie green lit. And that's changed a lot, because again
the model has changed. I will I will have a
five million dollars stript and I will bring in an
actor or an actress and they're like, oh, they don't
have the international value.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
I'm like, are you freaking kidding me?

Speaker 4 (47:17):
This versus won an Oscar and has never done a
horror film, and you're telling me they don't have international value. Now,
So that kind of change in the business has been
very frustrating to deal with.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
So it's like the goalposts are kind of always being
moved or changed all the time.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Yeah, they move the goalposts for us, but not for them.

Speaker 4 (47:37):
So you know, in the good old days, like New
Line would buy a script and they would go out
and hire a director, hire the cast, you know.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
A cast director, bring on the cast.

Speaker 4 (47:46):
Now we're expected if we're going to a studio, we're
expected to have like a director attached, a cast attached.
It's crazy how much it's changed, like where they put
all the onus on us when it's like we don't
I can't afford to hire Ethan Hawk to be in
my movie. You guys are supposed to be saying Ethan
Hawk could be in my movie. So albota that has changed.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
And that's why again I keep faulting to.

Speaker 4 (48:13):
There's so much technology now that you can make stuff
you know on your own, with the crew of people
that you love, and tell like stories that you want
to tell, and they will find an audience.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
I do believe that. I do believe if you if
you tell.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
A story that you're passionate about and you do it,
you know, you might maybe the first one doesn't take off,
but if you just keep at it, you will, you
will find an audience because horror fans especially are very
loyal and they're also looking for new stuff. So I'm
always going through literally, I'm like all the channels. I'm like, fuck,
I've seen this movie. I've seen this movie. Is there

(48:49):
anything I haven't seen? And I've literally because I've been
watching these horror movies since i was like fourteen, So
I've seen every I'm sure there's something I have it's same,
but I can't find it on the guy of the services.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, no, I feel that.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
So it's yes, if you, if you, if you do,
please make some movies.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
I would, you know, because because I know there are
a lot of Organs like me that are out there
just looking for something new to watch.

Speaker 2 (49:19):
You mentioned a few minutes ago about the idea of
you know, by the end of this year, you would
like to have your own production company up and running,
and obviously in recent years you have produced you know,
a lot of movies for people who don't know and
maybe in Layman storms if you can what what is
the role of a producer and when when you say

(49:40):
you know, I want to have my own production company.
I want to help people produce their movies. I think
people guess misconstrued as to what that actually means.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
Yeah, there's a couple of freat definitions for the producer.
A producer, like the hardcore, straight up answer is somebody
who like Craig Perry.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
I always use him because he's awesome.

Speaker 4 (50:00):
Craig Perry guides the project from the beginning development of
the idea through production. He's on set making sure everything's run,
everything comes in on budget. He's kind of deflecting any
fights between the studio and the director. He's trying to like,
you know, play Switzerland in there so that none of
the drama.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Spills over to the people on set.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
And he guides post production and you know, making sure
the film gets completed on time and on budget. So
that's that's the like on the grounds hand, on producer.
Some producers you know will work on like getting cast
attached and getting some financing involved, you know, getting some financing.
But that can fall into the executive producer thing. And

(50:41):
there's a lot of people I know that will just
slap their name on a movie as a producer that
had did nothing but put in some money, So you know,
it's it's but the first definition of what a producer does.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
Like for a production.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
Company, a lot of times it's more of a it's
not a vanity title.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
You'll see a lot of actors and actresses with production companies.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
But the thing is you have to kind of build
up a reputation where people will hopefully invest in movies
that you want them to invest in. So you know,
like I said, I got pretty you know, that's that's
what I am manifesting this year because I've got just
several projects that I that I have coming out, and

(51:20):
so I do want.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
To have a production company.

Speaker 4 (51:24):
That hopefully we can do a couple of these projects
under and then want it's proven, then you can kind
of set up maybe a deal with a studio or
studios will know that if you're bringing them a project, okay,
we really should look at this one.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Is that The key I guess to that then is
having that that proof of concept, that little bit of
clout for want of a better word, you know, to
be able to say, this is who I am, this
is what I do, and you know that when my
stamp is on it, this is the level of quality.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
Yes, yeah, And I that, you know, one of the
things that I've done is I've certainly and I you know,
I I love everything, even the people that have bought
my strips and made them really cheap.

Speaker 3 (52:06):
Like I learned a lot something about everything.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
But you know, there was a point there where I
was just because I wanted to help people, where I
was just putting my name on all my print stuff
just to help them get financing or distribution. And it's like,
all right, I got quit doing that because I was.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Just going to ask that not to cut you off.
But is that a because I would imagine, you know,
as as somebody so kind her than an open I'm
assuming people just come from every angle with hey, look
I've got this movie, I've got this thing. Can you help?
Can you help? Can you help? And how difficult that
is then to be able to take a step back
and go, who guys, I need to I need to
take care of myself first, actually, because this is just

(52:44):
like we're taking pieces from you know.

Speaker 4 (52:47):
Yeah, I mean I literally just started doing this like
the end of last year.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
So so it took me a long.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
Took me a long forget it took me like, yeah,
I'm like, I just I turned fifty five, So yeah,
I waited a lot later in life than most people
do to kind of do that because because I feel then,
I you know, I always feel bad, you know, like
I feel bad if I say no to somebody. But
it's it's kind of like the oxygen on a plane.
It's if I'm not helping, if I'm not getting my

(53:17):
career in my production and you know, the stuff that
I'm producing, if if I'm not getting that focusing on
making sure that I'm doing the best stuff possible as
opposed to like helping everybody I can right now and
putting my name on everything.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
That's just that's not going to help people in the
long run, you know.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (53:38):
Yeah, because that's all he's got. He's got a lot
of produce credits. Some of them are good, some of
them are meh. You know, so I don't I'm like,
I got to focus on no more meh project right now?

Speaker 2 (53:48):
What what is it like? Because again, I think from
a from an audience, from an outside point of view,
a lot of people would be kind of maybe a
little bit taken aback by some of the stuff you've
said about you know, the difficulties on getting a project
to completion and actually, you know, seeing it come to
life the way you envisioned it, is there any even

(54:08):
now to this day, I would imagine at least there's
there's still a huge amount of weight behind saying you know,
I was a core aspect in creating one of the
biggest and best horror franchises of all time.

Speaker 4 (54:21):
Yeah, no, I mean that's that certainly helps. It's just like,
you know, I don't want to be riding that to
my grave. That that does help a lot, you know,
because the good thing is a lot of people now
that are decision makers kind of grew up on the franchise,
so they love it.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
So it helps, but it doesn't.

Speaker 4 (54:40):
It's not a it's not a knockout, you know, you know,
every every it does help though, it does help. And
I but you know, making movies is hard, like it's
it it It really takes a team to make a movie.
And you can make something, you know. One of my
friends had a great thing that he told me, He's

(55:01):
you can make a movie for any budget.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
It doesn't matter what you've written. You can make it
for a budget any budget.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
It just depends on how the film is going to
turn out, So you know, that's the hard part is
like realizing as a writer, you know, this is one
of the only businesses where you sell the copyright to
your script to a studio. Artists will like lice, you know,
they will own their art, but they can have people
can print it off and sell it. But we sell

(55:27):
the copyright to our our material to the studio so
they can do whatever they want with it after we're involved.
So if you want your true vision to come through,
you not only need to direct it your own work,
but you also have to have the money to do it,
so that can that can be hard. I love reading
James Cameron scripts because when you read his scripts, like

(55:50):
the movie that you see in your head from his
writing is exactly what ends up on the screen.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
That's because he's got the money to do that.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
And it's hard to you know, it's hard to get
in that scenario where you have the money to bring
your vision to the screen like you see it.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
And sometimes a.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
Director will come on and have a completely different vision
in his head than what you've written, and so I'm like,
if it's better, that's great, But sometimes yeah, I don't
know what you were taking for you when you did it,
so you know, you just I just I always have
to stay in a place of gratitude because I realized,

(56:29):
you know, I have managed. You know, There's only been
one time in my career since I started at Newline
where I had to take like a shitty job for
six months to pay the bills. And again, I've lived
very meagerly. Like I'm either at Starbucks every day, so
I'm very easy to stock. If you're in Los Angeles,

(56:50):
I'm Starbucks every day writing and other than that, I'm
watching movies or I'm working on you know, producing and
getting stuff done. But but yeah, like it's you know,
it's a it's a business where people.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
Assume that you have a shit ton of money.

Speaker 4 (57:06):
If you Google my network that says it's like five
million dollars, I'm like, I've never had a million dollars
at one time in my life.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
I don't know where Google. I wish I could bank
that Google that Google money, or that Google what line
to get a line of credit.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
But yeah, I've seen that multiple times. People have told
me that, you know, oh, you know, my network says
this and that, and they're like, it's not even it's yeah,
nowhere even closed. That's an astronomical you mentioned, you know,
I said about being a core aspect of creating one
of the greatest Hart franchise and things. But then I
was also going to follow that up with something you
kind of alluded to slightly. You know, while you're super

(57:45):
proud of that and it's a big part of your
career and your life, and you know, it's something that
I think you should be hugely proud of. I think
it's part of your legacy, you know, and it live
on I think for a long time for a lot
of people.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
Oh yeah, But is there an.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
Aspect I guess of you know, maybe a little bit
of not wanting to I don't want to just be
the Final Destination guy. I don't, you know, because I
can only imagine how many times a week you get
asked questions about Final Destination. Final Destination comes up.

Speaker 3 (58:16):
No, I mean, honestly, and I've said this, and I'm
genuine about this.

Speaker 4 (58:20):
As a horror fan, you know, I always remember that
kid from Kentucky, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
So if you'd have told me.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
I mean, I would have I was silly enough to
believe it at the time. But if you really told
me that I would kind of create something that would
become part of the public zeitgeist, that would be enough
for me. So I you know, I could die tomorrow
and I'd still be happy.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
I genuinely mean that.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
But you know, I still have a lot of years
left in man. I have a lot of stories I
want to tell. So I just you know, I would
I would like to be from from the creator of
Final Destination, and you know, yeah, yeah, you know. And
I love all my films, like again, I find something
I love about all of them, but you know, I
do I do want There's a couple of stories that

(59:08):
I just had been dying to tell for so many years,
you know, for decades even, and they're either tied up
at studios and turn around it too expensive to get back,
or you know, it's just so it's it's it's just
frustrating knowing that there's other work stories that and I've
I've written some shitty scripts too, So I don't know
people thinking that I think all my stuff is good,

(59:29):
but you know, I've got four or five scripts that
I'm really proud of that are just they've been tied up,
you know, at studios and we you know, can't get
them out, and it's just you know, frustrating.

Speaker 2 (59:40):
In those situations like that, when you know, when you've
written a script and it's been bought by a studio
and it's tied up like that, is there any at
any point does the rights or of license re art
back to you or is it literally just a case
of it's stuck there until the right partson comes along
in the company and goes, hey, we should probably just
let this go or do a deal or do something.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Yeah, two go. They're an honorable company.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
They will just charge you whatever they spent, you know,
to write the movie. But a lot of times people
just have this new jerk reaction of oh my god,
it's a turnaround. I don't want to do with the
legal paperwork in the hassle of getting it for something
like final destination thanks to copyright laws and stuff like that.
You know, I'll be in my sixties when the rights revert,

(01:00:24):
you know, technical revert back to me. So yeah, I'll,
I'll that'll be fun in my sixties. But if something
bought by a studio, you have to like usually just
pay them, you know, pay them what they paid you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
To get it back.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Yeah, m hmm, because I've heard. I've heard that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
Something costs too.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
They'll add on like strange costs And there's no way
you spend all this extra money on this thing because
I wrote it and then you put it on a shelf.
So maybe you paid somebody to dust the shelf off
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
But why do you think companies do that? No, I've
this time and time again of and it's like you
mentioned earlier about you know, people taking pitch meetings and
you know that they have no intentions or even want
to care about making a movie, but they're just kind
of doing it because it's like the machine feeding itself,
the idea of I hear so many people who like
get excited their script gets picked up where it gets

(01:01:18):
bought and they're like so excited to see it gets made,
and then nothing happens, and then next year nothing happens,
and nothing happens, and then they talk to other creators
and it's, oh, yeah, they bought my script as well
around that time, and oh yeah, they bought his script
that time as well, and it's there are they just
buying the ideas up? So nobody else can?

Speaker 4 (01:01:35):
I mean, I I I would hope that a lot
of the studios do go in with the best intentions
of making films, but what happens a lot of times
is that there's a change of management of a new
VP or development person comes on. A lot of times
they say, we want to start with the clean slate,
so they will just put everything that was in development

(01:01:57):
before they came on on a shelf.

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
And that just sucks.

Speaker 4 (01:02:01):
I've just seen it happen over and over again, and
it's yeah, you should maybe pick out the good ones,
you know, and work on those, but they want to
have ownership, so they want to, you know, they want
to start with a clean slate, So.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
That happens at times.

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
I mean, I definitely have heard a few times where
a studio has had something in development and a script
will come in that similar so they'll buy that script.
So that yeah, you know, but that that's kind of
the rarity. I do think it's because getting a studio
to buy a script is hard, so once they do
make that commitment to buy something, I do think they

(01:02:33):
have the intention of trying to make it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
But when I used to work a new line, like we.

Speaker 4 (01:02:39):
Would have like scripts that were priority development development, no
priority development, active development, then development, and then.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Scripts that were bought and that list was like pages.
So you know, it's it's.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
You know, that's why I tell people that, like the students,
like trying to get the student year route, especially nowadays
where it's gotten more business focused and more risk averse.
You know, there's so many other options out there, like Street,
so many streaming options. You know, it's still getting you
don't want to spend a ton of money on festivals,
but still doing a really good horror film that gets

(01:03:17):
buzz at festivals, you know, can help you out.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Yeah, there's just you just got to look at all
the options.

Speaker 4 (01:03:24):
And again I always tell people to look in your
you know you're in the US, look at your state
film you know programs. If you're in other countries, I
know they have actual like subsidies for like films, and
you know they will help you out a lot, you know,
So just look at all the options to try to
get your stuff made. And I think that starts with

(01:03:44):
getting a good script, and then maybe getting a good director.
Doesn't have to be a famous director, can be a
good director and just get it. Start making your own work,
because that's going to keep your passion. Yeah, it's going
to keep your creative juice's phone and that's going to
keep you excited about working. There's nothing worse than sitting
around yo, when you've got something out there in three
weeks or four weeks, you're still waiting for the phone call.

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Do you think then, in the current state of things,
if we look at the last twelve months in the industry,
you know, the success of the substance Long Legs made
a shit ton of money, and it seemed to be
quite well received, terrifying all these kind of things. And
then if we look at the I suppose the flip
side of that, a lot of these Disney like Triple

(01:04:29):
AIP TV shows that are coming out have kind of
all seemingly been a flap. These huge two hundred million
dollar movies that are coming out from some of these companies,
full of superheroes and all this different stuff, and I
don't know, audiences just don't seem to care anymore. I
already hear about that. I'll go see another Long Legs,
I'll go see a companion. I want to go see

(01:04:50):
something like that. Do you think if things were to
continue that way that there might be I'm not saying
an even keel, but will it maybe start to shift
it a bit and maybe they'll be a bit more
receptive to some original stuff and allow when people back in.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
I think I so.

Speaker 4 (01:05:07):
But the problem with a business person is again they're
always just gonna look at number number numbers. So it's
another example I'll give is you know, I'll see, like
I'll read a comedy script that's hysterical, hysterical, but to
cover their asses, a lot of times executives will be like, well,

(01:05:29):
let's hire the five best comedy writers in Hollywood to
come in and do a pass on the script. So
then you get five other voices coming in and changing
stuff around, and then you end up with a.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Muddle like mess of a movie.

Speaker 4 (01:05:41):
And that's coming from a place of like fear on
the creative side, where it's like you're not thrusting your
gut that this is good.

Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
So it's let's bring on more people.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
So that way, if it tanks, we can say, well,
we had the best five comedy writers in town work
on it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
We don't know what happened.

Speaker 4 (01:05:59):
So that kind of mentality kind of ties into the
blockbuster IP remake kind of thing. It's good for the
companies that make those movies because I think you know
Neon and A twenty four, you know, you know Blumhouse,
you know they have success. You know, there's a lot
of the companies that have successes and they will be
more open to doing stuff. But you know, for the

(01:06:21):
big studios, I you know, you you almost have to
go in with again with the package that they can't
say no to, you know, hard, that's.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Hard to do.

Speaker 4 (01:06:30):
And again about in this I don't say that to
discourage anybody, because the thing is if you make a
studio film, yes it gets out in the theaters, which
is great, but you're not going to see much money.
You know, You're much more likely to see money from
an independent film that you do yourself and just and
find distribution for because according to the studios, like funnel
listenation that you know, that franchise is like way in

(01:06:55):
the hole still, you know, as far as like profit
participation goes, because the studios have all the marketing costs
and the distribution costs and the print.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
You know, there's so many costs that go into releasing
a movie in theaters. It's great to go see it
in a theater, and you know, ideally you want to, but.

Speaker 4 (01:07:14):
Seeing in a theater at a great film festival with
a great audience is just as satisfying is seeing it
at AMC. Well maybe I shouldn't say that, it's almost
as satisfying is seeing it at AMC.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
So sometimes, you know, and like I can say, this
is some a place of just being so outside of
that like industry. But you know, I find I go
to film festivals and things and I see some of
these movies and you feel like you're among your people,
and the people who it was made for are the
ones that are all sitting there. So it has this
weird unique atmosphere. You know, it's not just like the

(01:07:47):
couple who wandered in or they're just looking for a
date movie that don't really know what it's about. It's
all those people who are kind of excited for us.
You mentioned that, you know, sitting down to write and
being in Starbucks and stuff. What does your crew, like
your writing process look like on a daily basis. So
obviously you said you like to go to Starbucks. Is
that that's like your thing that works for you?

Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
Yeah, I mean sometimes if I because I have aded,
so I need the kind of background noise around me.
And plus I don't want to I'm kind of a
social person, so I just need to be around people,
so I don't like sitting at home.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
But my process is really all over the place. It
depends on what I'm working on.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
To be honest, Like I always tell people, this is
advice that I don't take myself often, but the best.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
Thing to do is to outline your script, and once
you've got that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:41):
To a place where you feel like it's strong enough,
just vomit out the first draft. Get that first draft out,
because what most writers tend to do, myself included, is
we'll start writing a script.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
We're like five pages in.

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
We're rewriting the first five pages, then we write a couple,
we write five more, and then we rewrite the ten pages.
By the time you, hey, this is into the script,
you're like burned out. So if you just vomit that
first draft out and then once it's all on paper,
then you can start going through the revisions and the
tweets because you've got the whole movie laid out now,

(01:09:13):
as opposed to like doing it as you're going along,
because you will burn yourself out, like I know so
many writers. Well, I made it thirty pages into the
script and I hate it already. Yeah, because and I've
done that too. It's yeah because I spent I keep
writing it, rewriting right, and then you start doubting yourself.
And I think that's why it's easier to get that
first draft out. Kind of trust your gut on that
first draft and then do all the hard work of

(01:09:35):
going back in and revising.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Are you somebody who sets yourself like a I don't
want to say a strict routine, but somewhat of a
formatted routine. Or do you like to I don't know.
Do you like to write and work when let's say
later today, you're sitting there and you hadn't intended on writing,
and then you're like, you know what, Actually I kind
of feel something. Let me grab the laptop or an
all book and let me take a walk for a

(01:09:58):
coffee and do something.

Speaker 4 (01:10:01):
I do the latter, but I suggest the former because
when I I was my most productive when I worked
at Newline, because I would come in an hour early
and write, and I would stay like an hour or
two after hours in write.

Speaker 3 (01:10:17):
And every writer that I've talked to, every book that
I've read.

Speaker 4 (01:10:23):
They always say you should set it aside a certain
time to write, and it doesn't have to be like
a certain number of pages. But the thing is, if
you if you set an if you said the same time,
like every day, I'm gonna sit down and write for
this hour, what happens is your brain starts processing and
getting into writing mode before you sit down. And I
saw that happen at Newline, because I would you know,

(01:10:44):
by the time I got to there an hour early,
I was ready to go. And then once the you
know clock ended and I got to my script, I
was just ready to go. And that's when I was
most productive because you know, I had a schedule right now,
because I'm trying to do so many things at the
same time. It's like I don't have the luxury of
necessarily having a schedule. It's more like when is my deadline?

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:11:05):
Yeah, so, but I would highly advise, you know, writers
to set us aside a specific time and don't kill yourself.
You know, don't start off like two hours or whatever.
You know, start off small and let it you know, bigger.
But it does psychologically You're like it's just been like proven,

(01:11:26):
like your brain will start getting into writing mode long
before you. If you set it at three o'clock, your
brain's already getting into writing mode. So it's not sit
down at a computer like at some random time and
you're looking at a blank page, gonna know what the
fuck am I gonna do? Yeah, so I definitely recommend,
you know, setting aside a certain amount of time to work.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Do you deal with that struggles with trying to turn
off the creative brain? So, for example, I don't know
if you're trying to just sit down and just watch
a movie, or go to the theater and just watch
a movie, or go out with friends for food, food
or something like that. Sometimes do you find that you
struggle with maybe the projects swirling around your head and
you're like, gosh.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
Shit, I need to do that thing now. It's like
a enhance the real up here.

Speaker 4 (01:12:11):
Like I have trouble shutting up my brain at night,
but it's mostly because I'm I worry about my friends,
I worry about the world, I worry about all this
other you know, I tend to worry a little bit,
maybe a lot, about things that are that I don't
have any control over.

Speaker 3 (01:12:27):
So that's really the only time I have trouble shutting
my brain off. Is if something's going on with a.

Speaker 4 (01:12:31):
Friend or family or something you know, horrible's happening in
the world, I tend to take that on.

Speaker 3 (01:12:37):
So that's really the part of my brain I have
trouble shutting down.

Speaker 2 (01:12:42):
You mentioned being a warrior.

Speaker 3 (01:12:43):
Is there ever?

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:12:45):
Obviously, to do what you've done and get where you've gotten,
you have to have kind of a little bit of everything.
I think people think to be a successful writer, you
just have to be good at writing, and it's well, no, actually,
you have to be good at pitching, you have to
be good at networking, you have to be good at
you know, the business. You have to be good at
this and that. There's a lot of other stuff that's involved.
You know, while that's still at the core of I

(01:13:05):
guess your passion and your love. Is there ever a worry?
I guess business wise and financially, like I find I
don't know if from the more people I talk to
in the arts in a creative endeavor, I even get
like this secondhand anxiety about God. I feel like, if
you know, because it's not guaranteed, it's not your you

(01:13:27):
don't just sign one company and get to Okay, well,
this is your paycheck every year. It's guaranteed. No matter
what happens, it's all good. It's that anxiety of you know,
I have to have something. I have five plate spinning
at once. One of these needs to go soon, something
needs to happen, you know, because at the end of
the day, you know, you need to live, you need
to exist still as well.

Speaker 3 (01:13:49):
Yeah, now that happens like literally all the time.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
Yeah, that's that is that is I But I turned
that worry into being proactive now because there's a lot
of things that you can do, you know, I tell
I tell filmmakers like if you've made a film or
if you're you know, you know, research companies that put
out the kind of films that the films that you've made.

Speaker 3 (01:14:12):
Like do you've got to do You've got to do
a lot of homework.

Speaker 4 (01:14:14):
Because there's so many companies out there, and there's you know,
a lot of them are you know, won't take you know,
unsolicited material, but some of them will. You can still
send them a query letter. But look for companies that
make the kind of films that you want to make.
And you know, even if they're low you know, there's
a lot of local production companies, you know, in a

(01:14:35):
different states. I've had some companies that just did commercials
that were like, well, we kind of want to get
into film and so you know, bring us in you know,
an indie an indie script, and you know, and and
we'll you know, we'll make it. Like so you know,
look for those kind of opportunities to Like, you've really
got to do your research on the business side of it,

(01:14:56):
which sucks because it used to you know, it used
to be you just worry about writing a good script.

Speaker 3 (01:15:02):
But it is show.

Speaker 4 (01:15:03):
Business, which you know is I It's been an old
saying like before I was born it, but it's gotten
more business, especially when you're in like a hub like
La or something like that. So but again, I think
you just have to do your research. And I do
tell people if they're especially if you're horror writers, like

(01:15:26):
you find your subgenre that you love writing. If somebody said, hey,
you can only write one kind of movie for ten years,
what kind of.

Speaker 3 (01:15:34):
Movie would that be?

Speaker 4 (01:15:34):
Because if you go out with the slasher film that
people love, they're going to ask for your next slasher
film and you can say, I've got this great thriller,
and they're like, Slasher, we need your next lot. You know.
It's yeah, they can't get their brain around the fact
that you wrote something other than the last thing they like.
So I'm not saying tell the same story, but I'm
just saying, find the genre that you're most Some people

(01:15:55):
like writing horror comedies and some people like writing dark
thrillers and like writing ghost story. You find the genre
that you would be with, just from a business practical
point of view, because the first thing that gets somebody
excited about your writing, they're gonna want to see. They're
not gonna want to see an exact copy of that,
but they're they're gonna want it to be in the
same ballpark. So if you're a comedy writer, they're gonna

(01:16:16):
want to see your next comedy. They're not going to
want to read a drama that you wrote, which I
know is counterintuitive to artists because a lot of times
you left to show that we can do everything, but practically,
you know, you want to find your niche. Yeah, so
that people, oh, Jeffrey does horror, you know, and yes,
I can do other things and I've done other things.
But it's good because there's so many people out there. Again,

(01:16:39):
it's kind of it's rising through the clutter. It's like
you want people to when they think of your name,
it's okay, they can they can put a film to
that and put a genre to that.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
It's it's just funny just this. Since you say that,
I can see exactly what you mean about that kind
of having to you know, wanting to do other things,
but then also having to kind of have your your style,
like your your thing. Had you ever been approached after
final destination since then at any point you know about

(01:17:08):
Utter franchises or potentially bring in Utter. You know, I
don't know whatter ips or their names.

Speaker 4 (01:17:15):
Yeah, I mean I I pitched on a lot of
on a lot of stuff, and I've gotten, you know,
close on some things.

Speaker 3 (01:17:22):
But yeah, the the well I did, I did did
write the Day of the Dead remake. We might as
well bring that up, and.

Speaker 4 (01:17:30):
If they didn't call it Day of the Dead, it's
a really fun like it's a really fun movie. But
how that came about is they'd already the production, we
had already hired Steve Minor to direct the movie, and
they were gonna make it like one way or the other,
and so I'm like, well, let me you know, I
love Steve Minor. Let me go in and pitch, and

(01:17:50):
I pitched a very faithful, kind of updated version, but
very faithful, took place mostly in a bunker, had a
lot of the same you know, it wasn't it just
a It wasn't even I loved thom Savanes Knighter Living
Dead remake.

Speaker 3 (01:18:02):
I love it. It wasn't like that close of a remake,
but it was. It was a lot closer Today of
the Dead than what ended up getting made.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
Because that process was one of the hardest ones I've
ever been through, because they hired me based off my pitch,
and then as I was writing the script, they kept
making me change stuff and take stuff out and move
stuff around.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
And I was like, guys, we're.

Speaker 4 (01:18:24):
Going to get massacred for doing this movie anyway, So
why are you fucking with it so much that we're
just going to get more massacred.

Speaker 3 (01:18:34):
And so yeah, that was Again. I enjoy the movie. Now,
I just wish it was called something else.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
And that's definitely happened. I think several times two people
where you know they've gotten involved in something like that,
and I'm like, you know, what if this had of
just came out and it didn't have that title. At
that's what nobody probably would have said half of the
things that they said. I think it's that I don't
know if it's gaykeeping or something like that, where people
feel this to be.

Speaker 4 (01:19:00):
Like I state, like I understand it as a fan,
you know, Like that's why I loved toom Savinie's Day
of the Day or Night Living tod remake. I thought
was it kept the spirit of the movie, kept a
lot of this at pieces, But I just thought he
did a.

Speaker 3 (01:19:13):
Great I loved the movie.

Speaker 4 (01:19:15):
I'll have nothing against remakes if they're if they're done well,
because it's just part.

Speaker 3 (01:19:19):
Of the business, and you know, you can hate them
all you want.

Speaker 4 (01:19:22):
But in my opinion, like a lot of times, remakes
will reintroduce a new audience to like the original film.
So I think that there's you know, and plus, if
somebody remakes like a Nightmare in Elm Street, I mean,
Wes Craven isn't with us anymore unfortunately, But you know,
if people remake a Nightmare Elm Street, people are gonna
go back and watch the earlier ones, and that's gonna help.

(01:19:43):
That's gonna help financially, help wes out, you know what
I'm saying. So it's I get it. From a creative
point of view, we don't want to have remakes, remakes, remakes,
but again that's what the studios are putting out, and
you know, we can complain about it, you know, as fans,
but they're gonna keep making them.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):
You know, that's even if they don't make a ton
of money.

Speaker 4 (01:20:03):
There's a there's younger audiences that haven't seen the original
that will go see the remake. So there, you know,
your only hope is that you can do a really
good one, which I will. If I have to do
another one, I will make sure that I have a
lot more control. But again, at the end of the day,
I still really enjoy the movie. I just wish they
would have called it like zombie attack.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
You know, I'm gonna go out. I don't want to
hear and people can say what they're like after the fact.
But I always personally enjoyed that, and I purposely didn't
mention it because I know how some of the the
audience kind of perceived that, and it's that thing I
feel it's really weird about. I don't know how I
feel about the whole gatekeeping thing because I've seen it

(01:20:46):
happen multiple times with things, and maybe when I was younger,
I used to be a little bit more. I would
kind of jump on the bandwag and to be like
the originally you can't do anything and whatever. And I
thought about it and someone one said to me, you know,
every story has already been told, but just not by you.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Yes, yeah, and that is true. There every every story
has been told before in some form or another. And yeah,
you don't.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
You know, if it feels like a cheap cash grab,
then it's insulting. But nothing's replacing the original film. I
still watch Nightmare, the original NIGHTMAREO.

Speaker 3 (01:21:21):
I watched that movie. God, I can't even so many,
so many bugging times, so many, way more than a
final destination.

Speaker 4 (01:21:30):
But I started off younger, but I will watch that
original all the time. And it's like, the remake doesn't
take that original movie away from me. And like I said,
if anything, it's introduced as an audience to the original.
In the audience, they may be like, oh, Freddy's arms
look cheesy, or you know, hair or big hair.

Speaker 3 (01:21:50):
Everybody had big hair, but fuck them, they're watching it.

Speaker 2 (01:21:53):
Yeah, yeah, you're right. I have one or two more
quick questions before I let you go today with final destinations,
you know, sayst those that the core movies like one
and two? How involved had you been since then? Right
up until now? Obviously? I know, you know, we've a
new movie, new movie coming out this year. It's to
the twenty fifth anniversary of the original. You know, there's

(01:22:15):
a lot of big things for Borida franchise. But how
involved are you actually?

Speaker 4 (01:22:19):
You know, with it?

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Do you do you get contacted? Do they bring you in,
do they ask your opinions?

Speaker 1 (01:22:24):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:22:24):
How does that work?

Speaker 4 (01:22:26):
You know what I was, I was involved, very involved
in the second movie. After that, I hadn't been like
technically involved. But I'm really tight with you know, I've
gotten you know, really I've been really good friends with
people that have been involved in the sequels, like David Ellis.
You know, I'm friends with Tony Todd. You know, I've

(01:22:48):
gotten in the tall team behind the new film.

Speaker 3 (01:22:51):
They've been amazing.

Speaker 4 (01:22:53):
And you know, I'm friends with Craig Perry, so he like,
you know, I know, I'm he lets me know kind
of what's going on. Sometimes bounce ideas off of me.
You know, like the whole ending of part five.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
I'm not going to spoil it for people.

Speaker 4 (01:23:05):
I haven't seen it, but that was going to be
the ending of part four and they pushed it, and
I'm so glad they did it, so you know, I'm
I I.

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
Love that.

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
The franchise has been in really good hands and has brought.

Speaker 4 (01:23:22):
A lot of people, Like I was a big fan
of aj Cook before she played Kimberly, like i'd some
indie films. I'm like, this girl is going to be
a star, and when we we got her for like
Funnel Destination two, and now I'm like watching Criminal Minds
all the time, pau Like I love that so many
of the people that have been in those films have
gone on to do bigger things.

Speaker 3 (01:23:42):
The directors have gone on to do bigger things.

Speaker 4 (01:23:44):
I mean, you know, James Wingland Morgan, you know, after Funnelization,
they went off and directed features.

Speaker 3 (01:23:49):
They hadn't directed features before, so and David Ellis.

Speaker 4 (01:23:53):
Was a stunt a stunt guy, you know, but he
hipped ass with Funnel Destination too. And Eric Bress, who
him and Jane Makagruba wrote the script and co wrote
the story for the second.

Speaker 3 (01:24:02):
One along with me. They're great guys and they're they're
you know, it's just so I just love it. I
I fill with Craig. It's in wonderful hands.

Speaker 4 (01:24:11):
And you know, it's a franchise, you know, like I said,
I'm really proud of I'm kind of a big I'm
kind of a big I felt like I got to
do everything I wanted to in part two. You know,
I got to expand you know, the mythology. You know,
I introduced a bunch of kids that you thought were
going to be the leads, and then I murdered them
all except for A. J.

Speaker 3 (01:24:31):
Cook.

Speaker 4 (01:24:32):
Originally I was going to bring I had Alex and
Kimberly coming back, or Alex and c they're both coming back,
and they couldn't make it work out with Devon, but
it's not Cannon since we didn't see him die in
My Birth and also we didn't see A. J. Cook
and Michael Landis, we didn't see their characters die after
part two. So you know, I've just been pushing Craig

(01:24:53):
to let's stop killing people at all the ends of
the movies, because that really isn't.

Speaker 3 (01:24:57):
Canon, you know, because the whole idea with funnel destination
was you.

Speaker 4 (01:25:02):
Know when I wrote it was you know when I
wrote you know, the original draft that I wrote was
that you can't.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
Cheat death, but you can.

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
Live a better, longer life. It wasn't like so I
don't think it was till part three that they started.
You know, well, in part five, I gotta I don't
want to spoilship. But you know that's that's the thing,
is I I would love because I think death. I
love the Rube Goldberg stuff. James Wong and Glenn Morgan

(01:25:32):
came up with that, and I think, like I said,
it was brilliant. But you know, I would like to
explore more like mythology of the branches of how it
spreads out and there's some bloodline is gonna be fucking grey,
like I can tell you that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:46):
So everybody, Yeah, I was just gonna ask really quickly,
like how much do you know about that?

Speaker 4 (01:25:50):
Do you you know?

Speaker 2 (01:25:52):
Do you get to go and see early you know,
test footage, Like how does that work?

Speaker 3 (01:25:57):
I I know I know all about it, but I
haven't gone to it. I didn't want to see it.

Speaker 4 (01:26:02):
I don't want to see it until because they're still
working on the sound mix so I didn't want to
go to any of the test screamings because I want
to see it when it's done.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:26:10):
But yeah, it's I've seen enough. I've seen enough and
read enough to know that it's going to be great.
And the directors are amazing. The writer you know, we
have the Scream Scream writers, the Scream screenwriters. John Watts
who did the Spider Man movies came up with the story,

(01:26:31):
and then Adam Sein and zachh.

Speaker 3 (01:26:34):
God I'm going to say his lame.

Speaker 4 (01:26:36):
Name, wrong Lapowski, they did Freaks. They are such big
fans of the franchise. That's what I love about the
people that have come on board the films is it's
none of them have been hired guns. They're all like
fans of the huge fans of the franchise. So you know,
the goal is to not just make a shitty Final

(01:26:58):
Destination movie. Yeah, and if there's ever been an issue
with the film, it's you know, obviously for one of them,
like they had to write the script in a like
three weeks because the writer's strike was happening. So you know,
if there's ever been an issue with one of the
films not maybe having as much depth as the rest
of them, it's because the writers didn't have time to

(01:27:19):
you know, spend the time that they would have normally
spent on the script.

Speaker 3 (01:27:23):
But I think even the.

Speaker 4 (01:27:26):
Even the films that, yeah, I don't think there's been
a I you know, I'm biased, but I don't think
there's been a bad entry in the franchise.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
I was literally going to say that. A lot of
people talk about, you know, Scream being one of the
are the only horror franchise that hasn't really had a
bad sequel or hasn't had, you know, an overly bad
movie in the franchise, And my mom was like, did
you forget about Final Destination? And I think some of
that comes from a really good place. Which is probably
even better is not saying people don't consider Final Destination horror,

(01:27:59):
but a lot of people I know who don't like
horror movies love Final Destination.

Speaker 3 (01:28:03):
Yeah. Yeah, now that's that's again, That's why I'm really
I'm really touched, you know, by how it has impacted people.

Speaker 4 (01:28:13):
And again, I I think the Rube Goldberg thing was
so crucial and also it was fun because I came
up with that log truck scene going driving home to
Kentucky because we had the we had this general story
figured out, and the producer is like, it was going
to be a hotel fire, but they used that for
a comic book.

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
Actually, one of the I don't want to say comic
book and crags, Yeah, we just need a better opening,
we need something big.

Speaker 4 (01:28:35):
And I was driving home to Kentucky behind a log
truck and I pulled into the next lane and then
I pulled off the highway and I called him and
he's that's the fucking opening.

Speaker 3 (01:28:44):
And so it's so cool. I mean, people are like,
you must get sick of seeing these. I I probably
I probably get a log truck video or meme.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
Oh, like it's but that must be crazy right to
be Now, maybe after a while it wears off, But
like every time I see that, I'm like, I'm looking
at it from the point of view of going I
can't imagine how I would feel if I had created
something that people make memes of and some of them
have no idea of. You know all the people behind it,

(01:29:16):
and you know the person who came up with a
concept and all that, and I'm like, it's that's when
you really know that, like you've crossed over into the zeitgeist.
It's not just a movie anymore. It's become like a
part of to me, at least anywhere from the outside
looking in it it has become a part of culture.
Like I said, the amount of people that I know
who always refer to me as you know, the movie guy,
the horror guide or whatever that don't like those kind

(01:29:39):
of movies but love Final Destination, and not because they say, oh,
it's not horror. It's oh no, They're just so fun
to go and watch. I get so caught up in
the story. I'm so entertained for ninety minutes or two hours,
and I'm like, yeah, and you're forgetting the fact that
you're going to a horror franchise.

Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:29:57):
Now, it's like I said, it's it actually doesn't get
old because it's you know, like you said, horror is
always kind of the you know, the the I hate
to say redheaded steptog because some.

Speaker 3 (01:30:09):
Of the hottest guys I know are redheads. But but
it is, it is, you know, it just this industry.

Speaker 4 (01:30:16):
You know, they're happy to make money off of it,
but they don't want to acknowledge the artistry behind it.

Speaker 3 (01:30:20):
And I think hopefully that will change, you know, with substance.
I don't know if it will. I thought Hereditary would
have would have done that, but yeah, like it, you know, just.

Speaker 4 (01:30:34):
Knowing that, yeah, that it's part of the zeitgeist and
getting those little reminders it's it always just makes me smile,
Like it doesn't get all. It just makes me smile.
And I just tell people, don't send me anything where
somebody gets killed, like, I don't want to. Yeah, see
that accident where somebody dies. I don't want to see that.
But you can send me anything behind a log truck
or a you know, Christmas trees. I know Devin put

(01:30:57):
out a funny meme a couple of years ago with
a truck with Christmas trees on it. Yeah, yeah, I
say that, or any object on a truck is funny.

Speaker 2 (01:31:06):
Speaking of that, I would consider, you know, a final destination.
And probably all of them, I would say, but definitely
those first like two or three movies comfort movies for me,
like movies that I revisit time and time again. And
sometimes I've had filmmakers take that as a little bit
of an insult, And maybe it was the way I
came across it, and I was like no, no. I

(01:31:26):
mean as in, I think I would nearly rather be
a comfort movie than be a really popular movie for
two weeks and then everybody just forgets about me and
nobody ever knows. You know, you say, oh, yeah I
made that movie. They're like, well what, I don't know
what that is?

Speaker 3 (01:31:41):
I mean, yeah, I can't speak for other filmmakers.

Speaker 4 (01:31:45):
I mean, my my attitude is if if you have
a successful career and it doesn't have to be again,
you don't have to be like you know, the conjuring
you know James Wan, who's.

Speaker 3 (01:31:57):
Different than James Wan.

Speaker 4 (01:31:58):
You don't have to be that love of successful but
it you know, this was a dream of yours and
it's been fortunate enough to have a movie or several
movies made. Just fucking be grateful. I don't understand people. No,
I night Mare Elmstreet's my comfort. I mean I but
I love that movie in adored, So there's no insult.

(01:32:19):
And having you know, your comfort things, that's things that
bring you joy when you're stressed out, you want to
enjoy something.

Speaker 2 (01:32:26):
So that's exactly and the kind of it, I don't know,
what teleports me to a place and it teleports me
back till the early two thousands, and I started to
feel all those feelings I felt when I first watched it.
But do you have uttered a nightmare? Elm Street? Do
you have any comfort movies that you find yourself maybe
revisiting more than others?

Speaker 4 (01:32:45):
Yeah, I mean I love Suspiria or Suspiria. I love
Candy Man, I love Psycho. I will.

Speaker 3 (01:32:57):
Randomly pop on a Friday of the thirteenth everyone in
a while, Halloween.

Speaker 4 (01:33:04):
You know. Sometimes I'll watch Toom Sabini, not a Living
Dead movie that's like going up on two.

Speaker 3 (01:33:11):
But it just depends.

Speaker 2 (01:33:12):
Like I.

Speaker 4 (01:33:14):
You know, I have so many DVDs, it's crazy, but
now that everything's digital, I've been dumb and bought them all,
you know, like I have brought the digital copies to
So yeah, sometimes I'll just I'll.

Speaker 3 (01:33:23):
Just scroll through. I'm like, Oh, I want to watch
you know Alien, that's a horror movie. You know who
I want?

Speaker 4 (01:33:29):
You know, I want to watch Evil Dead, you know,
Rigel and the remake the you know, Yeah, I just yeah,
like the classics are my comfort movies. But I also
have these days where I'm just scrolling through and I'm like, oh,
I want to watch this one today, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
Yeah, yeah, I get that totally. For for everybody listening,
then where's the best place that they can support you
or I guess, you know, keep up to date with
what you're doing. I feel like a lot of times,
you know, I know we probably can't talk about specific
projects or anything like that, but I always like to
try and connect the audience, I guess with the creator
in the aspect of you know, being able to keep
an eye so when you do have something that you

(01:34:07):
can announce that people can help share it and spread
the word and kind of support.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:34:12):
No, And I you know, I'm I'm very mindful of
what I can't share, but I will share stuff that
I can share. And I also love to support like
my friends who are horror filmmakers, and so I'm always
like sharing their stuff too.

Speaker 3 (01:34:22):
So probably the best way is, I you know.

Speaker 4 (01:34:26):
Twitter and Integraham. It's my handle, is my name, Jeffrey A. Reddick,
So I think it's best to follow me on those two.
And I'm also on Threads and Blue Sky, you know,
but I can't keep up with all these all these things.
So there's a lot, it's a lot, it's a lot,
and so I Twitter. I'd like to get off of it,

(01:34:48):
but I have That's where I have the most you know, followers,
and and so I can kind of share messages about
films and my stuff there. But yeah, I'm on Instagram
as well.

Speaker 2 (01:34:59):
So so for everybody listening, whether it's audio or video,
if you go into the description, the links will be
down below anyway, so you can support Jeffreys stuff there.
So final question and today before I let you go,
is why horror? What keeps you coming back to it?
And what does it mean to you?

Speaker 4 (01:35:17):
For me, horror was a very good way to process
a lot of this shit I went through growing up.
You know, being a person of color and being gay
in eastern Kentucky back in the eighties, seventies and eighties
was not or anywhere. Actually I'm sorry, I was. I
was born in Florida, but I claimed Kentucky because that's

(01:35:37):
where I started grade school for you know, college, so
that's where.

Speaker 3 (01:35:41):
My formative years are. But you know, I mean, she was.

Speaker 4 (01:35:44):
I was born in sixty nine, so the civil rights
movement had just happened, so it was not you know,
people are still very backwards when I was growing up,
so there was a lot of shit that I went through,
and horror really helped me kind of, you know, I
think process a lot of that fear and anger I shouldn't,
you know, Like I could.

Speaker 3 (01:36:04):
Just watch these movies and just have fun with them.

Speaker 4 (01:36:07):
That's why I get really annoyed when people try to
blame horror movies for like real life violence. Yeah, because
every horror filmmaker that I know is like the nicest person.
You know, some of some of us are a little quirky,
but none of us are. None of the people that
I know are violent or fight you know, they grew

(01:36:30):
up on you know, like growing up watching these movies,
Like you're already a nerd, you know, but you're not
an angry herd.

Speaker 3 (01:36:36):
That wants to go, you know, kill people. So I
think that that part of it always was what kind
of started me with it. But what I love about
it now is you can tell so many.

Speaker 4 (01:36:51):
Different types of stories in the genre and I still
have fun because I just want to come up with
new ways to kill people on screen.

Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
Like that's that's for me, is what the fun part is.

Speaker 4 (01:37:02):
All Right, what can I do that I haven't seen
or how can I spin this in a way that
is gonna like really freak people out. So I'm still
trying to just outdo my outdo myself in my writing
with like new ways to scare people or get under
your skin. So that's the it's it's fun for me,
you know, Like I'm I'm the most non violent person

(01:37:23):
in real life. I mean, I can fight. If somebody
attacks me, I will I will fight them, or attacks
my cats and I will fight them. But but just
as far as you know, like violence, you know, I'm
just not a violent person. And none of the horror
filmmakers that I know are violent either. You know, it's
I think it's a romantic comedy writer. It's and that's
a joke, but I was like, it's you probably watch

(01:37:45):
out for those romantic comedy writers because they're the ones
that have been burned a lot and they're probably angry.

Speaker 2 (01:37:50):
It is funny the amount of people who said to me, oh,
you know a lot of those people you speak to
or are obviously probably a bit crazi or a bit aggressive,
And I'm like, it's actually the opposite of perception you
might have anybody I've met. Look, I've had a few
weird interactions and stuff like that. But for the most
part it's been like ninety five percent, like the most kind, genuine,

(01:38:11):
positive people that you could ever meet.

Speaker 3 (01:38:15):
I know, and people are little meets it and they're
like what, I'm surprised. Yeah, I'm surprised.

Speaker 4 (01:38:19):
You're like, where do you come with this crazy? Your
mind must be I'm like, no, it's just for me.
It's it's cathartic and it's entertaining. I want to entertain people,
you know. I try not to be mean spirited in
my in my horror scripts, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:38:34):
The last two that I've written have come from like
a place of like.

Speaker 4 (01:38:41):
Where I have tapped into some of the stuff that
I haven't tapped into in my other work because I
wanted all my other stuff to be fun and entertaining.
So I've tapped into some stuff that I, you know,
have been holding in for a long time. But the
scripts aren't mean spirited, but they are dark, Yeah, much
darker than my other stuff. So I'm excited for that

(01:39:01):
that to get out into the world.

Speaker 2 (01:39:03):
Yeah. Well, I was just going to say, this has
been a pleasure and something I've wanted to do for
a long time, and I didn't disappoint And I think
everybody else will probably agree with me. I think everyone's
going to have a good time with this conversation here
and what you have to say. I'm super excited to
see what you have next. I can't wait to find out.
And I would love to keep in touch and maybe
do this again sometime.

Speaker 3 (01:39:24):
Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, it'll be fantastic. You got where to
look at the camera because I just people are feel
like to the side the whole time.

Speaker 2 (01:39:33):
People always give me ship for that. They always tell
me that it looks like I have googly eyes and
I'm like, look.

Speaker 4 (01:39:37):
At well, thank you so much for having me and
we will absolutely stay in touch. And it was a
pleasure pleasure, And again I loved Ireland.

Speaker 2 (01:39:47):
So hopefully I will get over there get you back
out here again.

Speaker 3 (01:39:50):
Yeah, so when I do, I'll hit you up. Thanks, Jeff,
have a great day you too here.

Speaker 1 (01:40:03):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Class Horrorcast. Stop
the CHC podcast at classharrorcast dot com at first Class Horror,
on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube, or on Twitter at Class
Underscore Horror. The CC podcast is hosted and produced by
Aaron Doyle and is an fcch production

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