June 9, 2025 • 37 mins
On today’s show, join Colby Mead (The Colby Cast), John Alois (The Hyperion Hub), and me for part one of our discussion of the fifth episode in season two of Andor, “I Have Friends Everywhere.” We discuss the cinematography of the series, character dichotomy, and debate Syril Karn’s motivation. Pull up a chair, grab your favorite mug, and have some Coffee With Kenobi.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, this is James Arnold Taylor, voice actor, the voice
of Yeah but Friend Flintstone, Jolly Test who's eleven years
old and totally awesome, Ratchet from Ratchet and Clank, Titius
from Final Fantasy ten.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh yes, and of course Obi Wan Kenobe.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
It wouldn't be a coffee with Kenobe without yours.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Truly.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
The horse is strong here indeed gormand visiting friends. Why
do you ask? I'm curious by nature. I have friends everywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
They tore my office apart. I was interrogated for two
hours like.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
A criminal for coming to the meeting.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
No, no, no, there's.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Nothing to do with that.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
They were they were looking for a listening device.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Do let me know if there's anything else you might need. Hey,
thank you, it's good to Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
You'll be living at the scene of the crime. Worse
than not.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
You're planning to advertise what you've done. This is Ashley
ex Stein Ashokacano from.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Star Wars, The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
And you're listening to coffee with Kenoby with Dandy joining
us today for a cup of coffee on coffee with Kenoby.
How about that we have two wonderful guests. We're going
to talk all about the fifth episode in season two
of and Or. The episode is titled I Have Friends Everywhere,
and when you're with these two, you instantly feel like
(01:41):
you've got two best friends. Let's bring him in first.
From the Colby Cast, the CEO of the Colby Cast,
Colby Ned Colby, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Dan. I'm so glad to be back. I love recording
with you. It's always special to you on CWK because
this is where I cut my teeth.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
The first time I ever recorded a podcast was with
you talking about Galaxy's Edge if you can yes date
that in your mind twenty nineteen. So it's just I
always feel like I'm getting to come home. So thanks
for having me. Man.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Absolutely, Will. I'm happy to have you on. And we'll
talk later about something fun we have that's going to
come out on the Colby Cast very soon. We'll get
to that. Also joining us. As promised, I told you
you're going to feel like these two are your best friends.
And this other guy, you know you love him. He's
got a smile that rivals the great Tom Gross from
(02:37):
the Hypeireing Hub, John Alois John Welcome back to Coffee
with Kenoby Dan.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
You know, I appreciate you talking up my smile. I
have to full disclosure. My daughter thinks when I laugh,
I look like a baby, So I don't know what
that means. If you literally look like a baby, I
think I think that's adorable. I'm not sure, but I
she hate the talk up there.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Oh she's the best. She's fun. In fact, I'm hoping
to e her as a student next year. But we'll we'll,
we will see. All right, we're gonna talk about this
as we've been doing on each episode of Coffee with Kenobi,
when we review Slash, discuss season two of and or
we're just gonna take in one episode at a time.
I purposely chose not to review arcs because I just
(03:25):
think there's too much material in this one. I might
even say it's a game change where we're gonna see
what happens in the conversation. John, we'll start with you
give me one word to kind of how you would
describe the episode overall, how it kind of lands for you,
and then just overall thoughts on the episode.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
My one word is going to be methodical. I think
it's a slower episode. There's not a ton of action
in it. However, it's it's story telling, long form TV
storytelling at its finest. I might come off as a
little bit of a Star Wars now in this episode
because I didn't catch on on everything. And I'll be
(04:04):
honest with you, I rewatched it twice. I watched it
again before recording with you, and there are definitely some
things that I missed the first time, and I don't
know how I missed them.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
But again, I think because of the lack of action,
there's some.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Pauses in there on maybe short attention span theater on
my part.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
But I loved it.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I thought it was really really well done, and I
loved the cinematography for it and the visual storytelling aspect
of it. Methodical is what I would say.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
An excellent word. And I know some of the key
points you brought up we're going to be discussing, Koby,
what about you? One word to describe the episode and
overall thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
So about like scene three, maybe see four of this episode,
the word just jumped right at me. And sometimes I
struggle with the one word right because it could be
so many different things. But this one just sort of
revealed itself to me in my own brain anyway. Intelligence
and it's got two meetings in my own my mind. One,
there's a lot of characters looking for intelligence in this
(05:09):
episode and intelligence in the information since right just almost
every scene you've got one character in a room with
another and they're sort of juxtapositioning themselves. One needs the information,
one has the information. Some of them don't want to
give it up, so some of them desperately need it.
But also I applied it to just the writing, the
(05:31):
whole overall crafting of not just the season and the series,
but this episode. The amount of intelligence that we get
to witness on Tony Gilroy's front, as well as the
writers and the directors of these episodes is just off
the charts, because this may be the most intelligent TV
(05:52):
show that I've seen, gosh in years. So I think
both both senses work.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I agree, And I really like the intelligence as what
it takes to create a show like this, and plus
the information being gathered or the information that is missing
where they can't acquire the intelligence that they need. My
one word for I have friends everywhere is momentous. This
is the episode for me in season two where and
(06:21):
Or as an entire series, Seasons one and two went
from a really good series that I enjoy but didn't
think about to a great series that has etched in
my mind. Not only is a momentous in that regard,
but I feel like this is where the stakes become
(06:42):
momentous and critical on a much larger scale than just
some very personal stories that happen to be, you know,
running parallel with one another throughout this season. It changes
a lot of things for Gorman, for the people of Gorman,
for the revolution, for Cassian's awareness and the reminders he
(07:05):
has about what is at stake and what he is
fighting for, for Biggs, for Luthen, and for Cyril, probably
the most important of all. So while we get ready
to talk about this, we've all acquired sort of like
a list of things we thought would be worthy to
(07:26):
talk about, and we don't feel like you have to
go in a linear fashion anywhere. You want to kind
of start this off, John, go ahead, what's the first
topic from this episode that you think would be worthy
of discussion?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So is it okay if I drift away from the
story and go a little bit more into the technical
side of.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Things, please please, and you literally do this for your
day job, so I think that would be appropriate to
hear from you.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I think because it's a slower episode, they really focus.
I talked about the cinematography and it's it out to
me and the whole series does in general. But there
are moments I'm thinking about some of the saw scenes,
some other areas where they're showing kind of some close
ups of soft focused foreground images or elements or items
(08:19):
where you're seeing the people behind them. There's some nice
moving shots. It's it's to kind of if you're not
going to have a lot of action, you're going to
pretty up the shot as much as possible.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
And I don't think they're trying to hide anything.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
They know that this is going to be more of
a of a building episode. There's not a lot of action,
and really there's no running or anything. There's one really
one gun scene that I can think of, and it
comes towards the end of the episode.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
So I think it was it was.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
An opportunity for the visual storytellers to take a moment
and let everything kind of breathe. It's very dialogue driven,
obviously very heavy on the dialogue and I watched it
with close caption. I know you all do that all
the time. I don't, but it helped me to understand
the story a little bit more. That's what stands out
(09:17):
to me as far as the storytelling aspect. I think
there were some great moments for some of the building
of the characters that you already mentioned.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Dan.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
I loved the idea.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Of and Or playing the role of James Bond and
really kind of sinking himself into another type of character,
this designer that he plays on the planet Gorman, and
how he is able to infiltrate, you know, their way
(09:51):
of living and trying to understand who they are and
some of the things that they've suffered and struggled through
while still remaining the character that he's playing as. This
kind of when I say James Bond, he was given
a mission and hear that right from the start. Excuse me,
(10:11):
but he's able to stay in that role and still
get the intelligence as Colby talked about that he's that
he's hoping to achieve.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
So those are the things that stand out to me.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
They're callbacks to come some kind of spy films, but
also beautiful cinematography and storytelling. And I looked up the
cinematographer and I'm going to try to say his name,
Christopher Nians And he's done other episodes as well, but
stands out for me for this one in particular.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So if you'd I love that, And if you don't mind,
explain to our friends listening when you mentioned cinematography, what
is that? What does that entail? And and how does
one go about making excellent cinematography.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So so, cinematography is the art of visual storytelling, right,
but they're they're doing it in a way. The cinematographer
is doing it in a way that you and I
don't always think about. So it's through lighting. It's through
the use of not only lighting, but the lack of
lighting shadows. There's a gorgeous scene where and Or walks
(11:19):
up to uh and what forgive me, uh Dan, what's
his name? And as the designer, do you remember by chance?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And you're going to ask that, you know what, while
you're while you're looking at that, while you're explaining, I'm
going to find it.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Oh, it's very in sky Yeah, there is such a
great such a great name.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah it was Yeah, it was perfect Skywalker. I mean,
you know it fresh. It refreshes the star Wars senses, right.
So speaking of that, he walks up to the camera.
We were looking the cameras looking down at the ground
in this one unseen when he introduces himself into the
(12:02):
into the world of Gorman and we see his shadow
come up, So it almost reminded me of Darth Vader.
But we're looking at a reflection in water and then
we see his his footprint, his boot steps into the water.
Next thing we see, we're up and looking at his face.
It's just a nice little way to kind of set
the steat the scene. Cinematography is again the art of
(12:26):
utilization of light and visuals to take the audience on
the journey that the director or cinematographer wants to take
them on. So if that sounds too I don't know,
upit e or artistic. I don't mean it to be. Yeah, yeah, good.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
But yeah, that's actually an excellent That's one of the
better explanations I've ever heard of it. So I really
appreciate you saying that because it is an art it
is a story from me, and I really like that
you said, not only is it the lighting, but maybe
an absence of light how our shadows used think think.
In Attack of the Clones, there's a scene where Anakin
(13:10):
is talking to Padme on tattooing against one of the
places in the Lars homestead, and when Anakin is talking
to Padme, the shadow of Anakin looks like Darth Vader
with the helmet. That's cinematography. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I love that, Colby, you were gonna say something.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I just love that perspective because I don't know much
about the technical side of these things, but I always
love hearing people talk that do know about that side
of things. I just really enjoy those things, and you
can see it all over the episode. Talking specifically about
visual storytelling, there's a couple of scenes and you brought
(13:53):
up very in sky, so I'm just going to stick
with him there. I'm thinking about the scene where he's
talking to the for lack of a better phrase, bell
Hop in that hotel room. There's a shot where you're
seeing Cassian or Varian through the window and he's when
it's when he's trying to prime him for some information
about this massacre that they're looking at the monument about,
(14:13):
and he's sort of got the bell Hop is behind him.
And we're seeing Cassian's face and you see him sort
of like side eyeing to see is this guy taking
the bait. If you don't have audio description on her,
you can't see his face. You don't know what Cassian's
thinking in that sense, but you can because of the
way that the shot is set up and the look
(14:33):
on Diego Luna's face. He's trying to see, okay, is
this guy taking it? And as he starts to approach
him and he's talking, you can see Diego Luna's face
is changing, he's getting what he wants. And then the
other example that I think is very good about this
is the the dinner scene, for lack of a better phrase,
or maybe the te scene where the Gorman front I'm
(14:54):
forgetting her name, but I think Inza. Inza approaches Varian
at night and you see Cassie and go from this
sort of like jovial designer type to very serious all
in facial expressions and tone of voice, and then back
to vary in sky again when he's going to end
(15:16):
this little unscheduled meeting. And again it's because how the
shot is set up. If we're it's all about the
angles and being able to see the face facial expressions,
expressions that we need to see or else we're losing
part of the story. So getting to talk a little
bit about that technical side of things and how things
are set up so that we can get the optimal
(15:36):
experience and understand the story is just it just I
have such a deep appreciation for everybody that goes into
making these kinds of things because you don't even know
it's really happening, right, but it's happening.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
It's great, you know when when you're watching Jaws, the
way that you the perspective of where the shark is
or where you are and what you can't see that cinematograph.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Can I say one other thing, going back to the
two scenes that Colby just mentioned, Dan, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
The bell hop scene.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I love how Diego Luna plays this aloof uncaring, pretentious
type of designer character, but he's really trying to get
a feel for what these people are going through, what
they're struggling with, what they're suffering through, to see maybe
down the road and I'm not trying to predict and
we know how this all goes, but but hoping to
(16:33):
maybe one day make an ally out of this person.
And get some more information that he that he might
be able to get. He's a bridge almost too, you know,
ear on the ground type of thing. The other one
I love how ticked off he gets with Enza in
that next scene that you talked about Colby, when he's
trying to warn her.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Look, you need to be better than this.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
If you're if you if you think all it took
was one or two lines, and you can trust me,
you clearly need to be better trained. But again, you
know she's struggling. They're naive to everything that's happening. They
haven't experienced this before, and they're impatient. And you can
(17:16):
have the prettiest visuals in the world, if you don't
have the acting to support it, then you don't have
a great story. But Diego Luna does a wonderful job
in this episode.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Very much so. And Thela is the name of the
bell hop.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, there's a lot to think about with this, and
I think, well, let's just talk about that sequence where
Tyla and cassiing or talking. Yes, I do think he
wants to Hopefully he's trying to figure out who can
I potentially rely on in the future to work with
(17:52):
Lutheran and I and are burgeoning rebellion. But I think
more than that, what makes us seems so important and
moving is because the veneer is gone, and Casting in
that moment is an empathetic human being understanding the pain
(18:14):
of another human being who has lost a lot, who
has lost his father. Right, he lost his father in
the attack instituted by Grandma's herken that has memorialized by
a monument that is solely becoming overshadowed by more imperial
tyranny and oppression and violence and threat. And he says,
(18:39):
it really is good to know you. I'm really you know,
and in Casting, and I believe in my heart means it.
He has got that rough, rugged spy that is required
for to be successful and to be alive, especially in
the face of the Empire when he's they're right there
all around him. But he cares about this guy and
he just met him. They become kindred spirits, and I
(19:01):
really found that so charming and moving.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I like that that perspective, Dan, and it made me
think of other parts of the episode, because this show
is a spy thriller, right Tony Gilroy of the Boorn
movie fame, and lots of other very h not quite
the spy who loved me fame, right, but it's in
that world spy espionage. And I agree with you, Dan,
(19:26):
I believe that in those moments, Cassian does care about
that individual, that person, But you can allow yourself to
question is he still playing is he still playing that role?
Is he is he trying to just bring this person's
defensive down, defenses down, so that he can exploit that
and try to get more information. I don't think that's
what's happening. Yeah, I wouldn't forgive anybody to think about
(19:50):
because Cassie is such a skilled spy. And then in
other parts of not to jump forward too much or
jump around too much. But we see, I found myself
in this episode questioning what do characters really know? And
I'll be honest, it's a lot about Cyril, But what
do question? What do these characters really know? And what
(20:11):
are they not letting on? And I love that sense
of unease because of that dynamic, And that's because this
show has earned all of that and has created that
kind of a situation for our own brains.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Sure, how interesting, see and I I really I agree
with you and I don't I just really don't think
for a second that Cassian is taking anything other than
about this guy and who he is and caring about
him and show and being like showing, hey, there are
people that care, not like in a let's hug it
out sort of a way. But I think I think
(20:44):
I why this was momentous this episode for me. I
think I needed this scene to feel like I can
sort of relate to Cassian. Can I trust him to
get the job done? Yeah? Can I trust him to
do the hard stuff and answer the tough questions?
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Hugh?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Bet? But can I count on him to care if
I'm hurting because of what has happened to me from
the Empire? Now I can because of this scene and
it's and the more we talk about the more I
think this is maybe one of the more important scenes
in the whole season. And I think I can back
that up later. But I want to switch it a
little bit. I want to talk about Cyril. Cyril. What
(21:26):
we're talking about when can we count on is Cyril
being himself? When is he not? When he talks with
Carl Rylands and I believe that's a French actor and
he is just dynamite. He is exquisite when he's talking
with Carl and his daughter ends Uh and his frustration.
(21:46):
Now I'm talking about now I'm talking about let me
go back, let me go back, I pull it the
wrong set of notes. Let's talk about Cyril, Cyril. When
it's Cyril that is talking with Carl, and he's talking
with the endstitute and then Dylan to a degree, and
he's sharing his outrage and his frustration that the isb
(22:07):
waltzed into his office in the Capital City and they're
just ripping everything apart looking for a listening device. He's
outraged they're treating him this way. He was interrogated for hours,
as he tells Carl, like a common criminal, and he's
(22:28):
outraged by it. We know, and we see it later
in the episode that when he meets with the major
part of Guz and Dedra, we know that this is
part of the ultimate plan to try to get him
ingratiated into these rebels goodwill so they will take him
into their confidence. So he gives them real intel to
(22:51):
let them think that something's happening. Right. But Cyril for
all is he's a really good investigator, even if you
think whatever you think about him. In season one, he
was on the money all the time. It's just said
they were one step out of him, and they were
just more prepared than he thought they were going to be.
But I guess I want to ask, and I'm going
(23:12):
to borrow from Greg and Gregg's Rebel Bass Card podcasts,
do we think that Cyril in this episode, in only
this episode, is he really is he really that good
of an actor? Or is he really kind of annoyed
with the isb what do you think? They're both looking
(23:36):
at each other? Can you hear it in the pilot
they're both looking at each other where you go? No,
you go?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I think that he's playing a role very well. I
don't think he knew who planted that listening device in
his office, right right?
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I don't think so. I think it was an opportunity
he turned to use towards the advance. But I also
have a hard time believing that there wasn't a part
of him that was a little indignant to this, because
he very much has a high opinion of himself, which
is why is reladship with his mom, much more than
earlier episodes, is a little strained, because she doesn't appear
(24:15):
to have that opinion of him.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Well, something Dan in this whole episode is nobody trusts anybody, right,
I mean even there's even factions among the rebels. Obviously
we've seen that already coming to this point, and then
we've got Sagerera and that's a whole different animal. But
on the Empire side, I don't think. I think that
(24:36):
there's a lot of mistrust happening all over the place.
He's probably a little annoyed because he thinks somebody might
be questioning him and his authority, and here he is
working hard to get the information that he wants to get.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
I don't get a sense that.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I do think that he is kind of just playing
the role as good as he can can, because.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
We do know it's deep, deep cover, because every time
he has to go see de dra he has to
like completely go through some covert stuff to make that happen.
Even to give her a little kiss on the cheek,
he's got to turn off the light.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
One of my favorite scenes in the entire series. I
know we're not talking about that scene specifically, but they
those two are so awkward. It's so much fun to watch,
just incredible.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
It's also very sad too, So we can talk about
it now, because I mean she was raised in imperial
What was the word she used, not an orphan, I'm
not sure, but I mean she's never been She's never
had affection shown to her. She doesn't know how to
show it when she says it's good to see you happy,
(25:53):
when he says, is it okay? If I might justify
if I say this is the greatest day of my
life because Major Pargas says good job, like he wanted
to spike that football man. I know we're all over
the place, but I think there's a lot of richness here.
Sorry Colby, go ahead, no.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
No, no, don't, don't apologizes please, And I'm just so
grateful that we have a chance to talk about Cyril
as a character, and especially because of this episode. I
have very strong opinions about this character. I think he
is absolutely captivating as a character. I think Kyle Soler
is a magnificent performer. I've heard Denise Golf talk about
(26:29):
how he can do monologues with his eyes, and she
brought that scene up specifically. I think that's an amazing
way to describe someone's abilities. But to me, Cyril is
he is an absolutely disgraceful disgusting person, and I think
he's the type of person that all he's I do,
(26:51):
I really do, I really do. I don't think. I
don't think he is very tragic, and I think that
he I feel this way because I feel like he
has zero integrity, That he is the type of person
that is only out for one thing, and that's the
feeling of relevance. Even if he's not relevant, he just
wants to feel relevant. And I feel like he would
(27:11):
do anything to anybody to make himself feel that way.
And I feel that way. Respecting the rules about how
none of our episodes passed this exist in this conversation.
I felt like this about him since the since the
first season, and it was only reinforced again. I enjoy
watching him, I enjoy watching his story unfold, but I
(27:32):
really just feel like he has no integrity, and it's proven,
in my opinion, it's proven by that scene with Partigas
where he walks out of the room and he looks
at Deda and says that line about is it bad
if I feel like this is the greatest day of
my life?
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Really, just because you were validated by someone in high position.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Come on, do you think that all of what you
just said goes back to his upbringing. He's never gotten
the love really from his mother or from I do.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Yeah, okay, so yeah I do.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
And I you know the whole the constant Uncle Harlowe talk,
the manipulative manipulation by his mother. Yeah. I think it's
one hundred percent that he he was never validated by her.
I'm pretty safe. I feel safe. It's to say so.
All he does is he looks for that validation from
other people. So I don't think he's I was gonna say,
I don't think he's a monster. But I can't talk
(28:31):
any more about that.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
No you can't. I'm just I'm really biting my lip. John.
I want to hear what you think about that, and
I'm gonna unleash you Dye tribe. Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
I I agree.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I agree with Kolbia And that's a great character breakdown.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I think I do find him fascinating. There are moments where.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I think the action or the progression of the story
slows down a little bit with him. But that's not
his fault. I mean, that's who he that's the character
he's portraying. But it is a it's a deep dive
into kind of a narcissistic person who never got the
(29:14):
recognition that he probably should have gotten at an early age.
I do it before Dan, or if you want to
go on your diet drive, that's fine if we leave
this this section. I do have a question regarding the
conversation with Enza and her father and Sirril, but let's
let me hear your thoughts first.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Well, so here's the thing. I think he's got an
extremely high emotional like you. I think he's got an
incredibly high level of integrity. This man is not liking integrity.
This man is raised to believe the Empire is good,
order is good, rules are good if you break the law.
(30:00):
He doesn't know anything about Cassie and or his mission,
or his plight or his raison deetre. All he knows
is this guy killed some of my officers. He is
working with the empire, the elite isb agents to find
a criminal who's a murderer who might be trying to
(30:21):
create in this uprising. He doesn't know what the future
is and we don't either, because we're not going to
break the little rule that I've carefully crafted for this
little discussion. And like I said, when I teach literature,
even if people have seen a movie of a book.
I don't let him go ahead of the chatter, because
you're going to miss stuff I think he is doing.
(30:44):
I think he is so dangerous and why this character
in this series are so powerful because he's not black
and white, he's so gray. But the worst part about
it is guys, he doesn't know that it's great. He
thinks he's right, right, the you know, the great path
that evil is paid with good intentions. He thinks he's
doing right. He's not the Emperor. The Emperor knows he's
(31:05):
doing wrong. He loves doing wrong. He will kill you.
Same with the Joker. This guy is not that he's
got complete entary. He thinks he's capturing bad guys who
want to usurp the status quo. I think that gives
him a high level integrity. It's just misplaced.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I love that perspective, and I love that the ability
to get me to think of things in a different light.
My response to that is that I look at his motivations.
He absolutely is dedicated to his cause right, and that cause,
from what we've been introduced to him, is about righting
a wrong that happened way back on his watch quote unquote, yes,
(31:46):
I would argue that he does this not because he's
he's motivated by some morality to right or wrong. It's
to catch a person who broke the rules which he
is super dremely committed to following and upholding, so he
can be rewarded by the personal gain that would come
(32:08):
with it. He worries so much about his status, and
we see that in his conversations with Dejah status going forward,
living on Corriscant, having a rank, making sure his uh
he looks the right way. I feel like and I
would be one hundred percent okay with being wrong. I
just feel like his motivations are always selfishly based on
(32:30):
what can what am I? How am I going to
reward be rewarded by accomplishing these goals, which are good
goals in his mind because of his commitment to the
things that we've talked about and being sort of raised
in the empire.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
I just feel like he's selfishly motivated because what's in
it for me? I'm going to continue to go down
this road because I want to benefit from.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It, but I like it. I don't think that makes
him selfish though. I think that makes him a person
who like, if you want validation for a job well done,
you don't do it because of that, but does help
you feel like you're on the right path. Like if
I'm a baseball player and I keep getting if I
hit three hundred or whatever, I'm not doing it so
(33:17):
somebody will tell me, hey, good job, I'm doing it
because I want to hit three hundred. Now someone tell me, hey,
good job. I really like your form up there, You've
got your elbow correctly, and blah blah blah, and all
this kind of stuff that helps you feel good about yourself.
But that's not your reason, because that is unfulfilling, right.
(33:37):
He seems to fulfill before it's a little empty because
of the way his mother erodes him. But I don't
think he does it for that. I think that is
a wonderful side product, But I don't. I think these
are mutually exclusive concepts. I love this conversation. I love
this listening to coffee with Knoby. You are with dan
Z the podcast you're looking for this is and just
(34:10):
like that, our journey through the galaxy for today has
come to a close. This is only part one of
our conversation. For I have friends everywhere, and I can't
wait to share part two with you. That's why I
stopped kind of in a little cliffhanger part and I
think you're really going to enjoy the continued conversation with myself,
John Allois and Colby Mead. Always great to talk with them.
Thank you so much for joining me on CWK, the
(34:31):
place where thoughtful Star Wars conversation pairs nicely with your
favorite cup of coffee, whether you're on the go, relaxing
at home, or sipping Kafi your favorite corner of the galaxy.
I'm truly grateful you chose to spend part of your
day with me. We are just a few days away
from the official coffee with Kenobi mouse Fan Travel meetup
at Jack Lindsay's Hanger Bar. It's actually on Father's Day
(34:52):
this Sunday, June fifteenth, from seven thirty to nine thirty.
Looking forward to seeing you there if you are in
the area for all things Star Wars news, reviews, videos
and more in to our home based coffee with Knobe
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(35:14):
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(35:37):
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(35:58):
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(36:20):
and so long. I'd love to get your emails. Anything
Stars led you want to talk about or ask questions,
I'm happy to answer them again. Dan zyat cooffeewith Kanobe
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(36:41):
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(37:05):
or tailor something unique for your audience. Grab your official
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again for joining me for this virtual cup of coffee.
I'm Dan's Aah and this is the podcast you're looking for.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
This podcast is not endorsed by the Walt Disney Company
or Lucasfilm Limited. It is intended for entertainment and informational
purposes only. The official Star Wars website can be found
at www dot star Wars dot com.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Star Wars.
Speaker 5 (37:32):
All names, sounds, and any other Star Wars related items
are registered trademarks and or copyrights of Disney and their
respective trademark and copyright holders. All original content of this
podcast is the intellectual property of Coffee with Kenobi. Unless
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Speaker 4 (37:49):
There's no one here off
Hey, this is James Arnold Taylor, voice actor, the voice
of Yeah but Friend Flintstone, Jolly Test who's eleven years
old and totally awesome, Ratchet from Ratchet and Clank, Titius
from Final Fantasy ten.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh yes, and of course Obi Wan Kenobe.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
It wouldn't be a coffee with Kenobe without yours.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Truly.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
The horse is strong here indeed gormand visiting friends. Why
do you ask? I'm curious by nature. I have friends everywhere.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
They tore my office apart. I was interrogated for two
hours like.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
A criminal for coming to the meeting.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
No, no, no, there's.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Nothing to do with that.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
They were they were looking for a listening device.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Do let me know if there's anything else you might need. Hey,
thank you, it's good to Mitchell.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
You'll be living at the scene of the crime. Worse
than not.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
You're planning to advertise what you've done. This is Ashley
ex Stein Ashokacano from.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Star Wars, The Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
And you're listening to coffee with Kenoby with Dandy joining
us today for a cup of coffee on coffee with Kenoby.
How about that we have two wonderful guests. We're going
to talk all about the fifth episode in season two
of and Or. The episode is titled I Have Friends Everywhere,
and when you're with these two, you instantly feel like
(01:41):
you've got two best friends. Let's bring him in first.
From the Colby Cast, the CEO of the Colby Cast,
Colby Ned Colby, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Dan. I'm so glad to be back. I love recording
with you. It's always special to you on CWK because
this is where I cut my teeth.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
The first time I ever recorded a podcast was with
you talking about Galaxy's Edge if you can yes date
that in your mind twenty nineteen. So it's just I
always feel like I'm getting to come home. So thanks
for having me. Man.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Absolutely, Will. I'm happy to have you on. And we'll
talk later about something fun we have that's going to
come out on the Colby Cast very soon. We'll get
to that. Also joining us. As promised, I told you
you're going to feel like these two are your best friends.
And this other guy, you know you love him. He's
got a smile that rivals the great Tom Gross from
(02:37):
the Hypeireing Hub, John Alois John Welcome back to Coffee
with Kenoby Dan.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Always a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
You know, I appreciate you talking up my smile. I
have to full disclosure. My daughter thinks when I laugh,
I look like a baby, So I don't know what
that means. If you literally look like a baby, I
think I think that's adorable. I'm not sure, but I
she hate the talk up there.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Oh she's the best. She's fun. In fact, I'm hoping
to e her as a student next year. But we'll we'll,
we will see. All right, we're gonna talk about this
as we've been doing on each episode of Coffee with Kenobi,
when we review Slash, discuss season two of and or
we're just gonna take in one episode at a time.
I purposely chose not to review arcs because I just
(03:25):
think there's too much material in this one. I might
even say it's a game change where we're gonna see
what happens in the conversation. John, we'll start with you
give me one word to kind of how you would
describe the episode overall, how it kind of lands for you,
and then just overall thoughts on the episode.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
My one word is going to be methodical. I think
it's a slower episode. There's not a ton of action
in it. However, it's it's story telling, long form TV
storytelling at its finest. I might come off as a
little bit of a Star Wars now in this episode
because I didn't catch on on everything. And I'll be
(04:04):
honest with you, I rewatched it twice. I watched it
again before recording with you, and there are definitely some
things that I missed the first time, and I don't
know how I missed them.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
But again, I think because of the lack of action,
there's some.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Pauses in there on maybe short attention span theater on
my part.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
But I loved it.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I thought it was really really well done, and I
loved the cinematography for it and the visual storytelling aspect
of it. Methodical is what I would say.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
An excellent word. And I know some of the key
points you brought up we're going to be discussing, Koby,
what about you? One word to describe the episode and
overall thoughts on it.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
So about like scene three, maybe see four of this episode,
the word just jumped right at me. And sometimes I
struggle with the one word right because it could be
so many different things. But this one just sort of
revealed itself to me in my own brain anyway. Intelligence
and it's got two meetings in my own my mind. One,
there's a lot of characters looking for intelligence in this
(05:09):
episode and intelligence in the information since right just almost
every scene you've got one character in a room with
another and they're sort of juxtapositioning themselves. One needs the information,
one has the information. Some of them don't want to
give it up, so some of them desperately need it.
But also I applied it to just the writing, the
(05:31):
whole overall crafting of not just the season and the series,
but this episode. The amount of intelligence that we get
to witness on Tony Gilroy's front, as well as the
writers and the directors of these episodes is just off
the charts, because this may be the most intelligent TV
(05:52):
show that I've seen, gosh in years. So I think
both both senses work.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
I agree, And I really like the intelligence as what
it takes to create a show like this, and plus
the information being gathered or the information that is missing
where they can't acquire the intelligence that they need. My
one word for I have friends everywhere is momentous. This
is the episode for me in season two where and
(06:21):
Or as an entire series, Seasons one and two went
from a really good series that I enjoy but didn't
think about to a great series that has etched in
my mind. Not only is a momentous in that regard,
but I feel like this is where the stakes become
(06:42):
momentous and critical on a much larger scale than just
some very personal stories that happen to be, you know,
running parallel with one another throughout this season. It changes
a lot of things for Gorman, for the people of Gorman,
for the revolution, for Cassian's awareness and the reminders he
(07:05):
has about what is at stake and what he is
fighting for, for Biggs, for Luthen, and for Cyril, probably
the most important of all. So while we get ready
to talk about this, we've all acquired sort of like
a list of things we thought would be worthy to
(07:26):
talk about, and we don't feel like you have to
go in a linear fashion anywhere. You want to kind
of start this off, John, go ahead, what's the first
topic from this episode that you think would be worthy
of discussion?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
So is it okay if I drift away from the
story and go a little bit more into the technical
side of.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Things, please please, and you literally do this for your
day job, so I think that would be appropriate to
hear from you.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I think because it's a slower episode, they really focus.
I talked about the cinematography and it's it out to
me and the whole series does in general. But there
are moments I'm thinking about some of the saw scenes,
some other areas where they're showing kind of some close
ups of soft focused foreground images or elements or items
(08:19):
where you're seeing the people behind them. There's some nice
moving shots. It's it's to kind of if you're not
going to have a lot of action, you're going to
pretty up the shot as much as possible.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
And I don't think they're trying to hide anything.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
They know that this is going to be more of
a of a building episode. There's not a lot of action,
and really there's no running or anything. There's one really
one gun scene that I can think of, and it
comes towards the end of the episode.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
So I think it was it was.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
An opportunity for the visual storytellers to take a moment
and let everything kind of breathe. It's very dialogue driven,
obviously very heavy on the dialogue and I watched it
with close caption. I know you all do that all
the time. I don't, but it helped me to understand
the story a little bit more. That's what stands out
(09:17):
to me as far as the storytelling aspect. I think
there were some great moments for some of the building
of the characters that you already mentioned.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Dan.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
I loved the idea.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Of and Or playing the role of James Bond and
really kind of sinking himself into another type of character,
this designer that he plays on the planet Gorman, and
how he is able to infiltrate, you know, their way
(09:51):
of living and trying to understand who they are and
some of the things that they've suffered and struggled through
while still remaining the character that he's playing as. This
kind of when I say James Bond, he was given
a mission and hear that right from the start. Excuse me,
(10:11):
but he's able to stay in that role and still
get the intelligence as Colby talked about that he's that
he's hoping to achieve.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
So those are the things that stand out to me.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
They're callbacks to come some kind of spy films, but
also beautiful cinematography and storytelling. And I looked up the
cinematographer and I'm going to try to say his name,
Christopher Nians And he's done other episodes as well, but
stands out for me for this one in particular.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
So if you'd I love that, And if you don't mind,
explain to our friends listening when you mentioned cinematography, what
is that? What does that entail? And and how does
one go about making excellent cinematography.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
So so, cinematography is the art of visual storytelling, right,
but they're they're doing it in a way. The cinematographer
is doing it in a way that you and I
don't always think about. So it's through lighting. It's through
the use of not only lighting, but the lack of
lighting shadows. There's a gorgeous scene where and Or walks
(11:19):
up to uh and what forgive me, uh Dan, what's
his name? And as the designer, do you remember by chance?
Speaker 1 (11:27):
And you're going to ask that, you know what, while
you're while you're looking at that, while you're explaining, I'm
going to find it.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Oh, it's very in sky Yeah, there is such a
great such a great name.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Yeah it was Yeah, it was perfect Skywalker. I mean,
you know it fresh. It refreshes the star Wars senses, right.
So speaking of that, he walks up to the camera.
We were looking the cameras looking down at the ground
in this one unseen when he introduces himself into the
(12:02):
into the world of Gorman and we see his shadow
come up, So it almost reminded me of Darth Vader.
But we're looking at a reflection in water and then
we see his his footprint, his boot steps into the water.
Next thing we see, we're up and looking at his face.
It's just a nice little way to kind of set
the steat the scene. Cinematography is again the art of
(12:26):
utilization of light and visuals to take the audience on
the journey that the director or cinematographer wants to take
them on. So if that sounds too I don't know,
upit e or artistic. I don't mean it to be. Yeah, yeah, good.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
But yeah, that's actually an excellent That's one of the
better explanations I've ever heard of it. So I really
appreciate you saying that because it is an art it
is a story from me, and I really like that
you said, not only is it the lighting, but maybe
an absence of light how our shadows used think think.
In Attack of the Clones, there's a scene where Anakin
(13:10):
is talking to Padme on tattooing against one of the
places in the Lars homestead, and when Anakin is talking
to Padme, the shadow of Anakin looks like Darth Vader
with the helmet. That's cinematography. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
I love that, Colby, you were gonna say something.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
I just love that perspective because I don't know much
about the technical side of these things, but I always
love hearing people talk that do know about that side
of things. I just really enjoy those things, and you
can see it all over the episode. Talking specifically about
visual storytelling, there's a couple of scenes and you brought
(13:53):
up very in sky, so I'm just going to stick
with him there. I'm thinking about the scene where he's
talking to the for lack of a better phrase, bell
Hop in that hotel room. There's a shot where you're
seeing Cassian or Varian through the window and he's when
it's when he's trying to prime him for some information
about this massacre that they're looking at the monument about,
(14:13):
and he's sort of got the bell Hop is behind him.
And we're seeing Cassian's face and you see him sort
of like side eyeing to see is this guy taking
the bait. If you don't have audio description on her,
you can't see his face. You don't know what Cassian's
thinking in that sense, but you can because of the
way that the shot is set up and the look
(14:33):
on Diego Luna's face. He's trying to see, okay, is
this guy taking it? And as he starts to approach
him and he's talking, you can see Diego Luna's face
is changing, he's getting what he wants. And then the
other example that I think is very good about this
is the the dinner scene, for lack of a better phrase,
or maybe the te scene where the Gorman front I'm
(14:54):
forgetting her name, but I think Inza. Inza approaches Varian
at night and you see Cassie and go from this
sort of like jovial designer type to very serious all
in facial expressions and tone of voice, and then back
to vary in sky again when he's going to end
(15:16):
this little unscheduled meeting. And again it's because how the
shot is set up. If we're it's all about the
angles and being able to see the face facial expressions,
expressions that we need to see or else we're losing
part of the story. So getting to talk a little
bit about that technical side of things and how things
are set up so that we can get the optimal
(15:36):
experience and understand the story is just it just I
have such a deep appreciation for everybody that goes into
making these kinds of things because you don't even know
it's really happening, right, but it's happening.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
It's great, you know when when you're watching Jaws, the
way that you the perspective of where the shark is
or where you are and what you can't see that cinematograph.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Can I say one other thing, going back to the
two scenes that Colby just mentioned, Dan, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
The bell hop scene.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
I love how Diego Luna plays this aloof uncaring, pretentious
type of designer character, but he's really trying to get
a feel for what these people are going through, what
they're struggling with, what they're suffering through, to see maybe
down the road and I'm not trying to predict and
we know how this all goes, but but hoping to
(16:33):
maybe one day make an ally out of this person.
And get some more information that he that he might
be able to get. He's a bridge almost too, you know,
ear on the ground type of thing. The other one
I love how ticked off he gets with Enza in
that next scene that you talked about Colby, when he's
trying to warn her.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Look, you need to be better than this.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
If you're if you if you think all it took
was one or two lines, and you can trust me,
you clearly need to be better trained. But again, you
know she's struggling. They're naive to everything that's happening. They
haven't experienced this before, and they're impatient. And you can
(17:16):
have the prettiest visuals in the world, if you don't
have the acting to support it, then you don't have
a great story. But Diego Luna does a wonderful job
in this episode.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Very much so. And Thela is the name of the
bell hop.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, there's a lot to think about with this, and
I think, well, let's just talk about that sequence where
Tyla and cassiing or talking. Yes, I do think he
wants to Hopefully he's trying to figure out who can
I potentially rely on in the future to work with
(17:52):
Lutheran and I and are burgeoning rebellion. But I think
more than that, what makes us seems so important and
moving is because the veneer is gone, and Casting in
that moment is an empathetic human being understanding the pain
(18:14):
of another human being who has lost a lot, who
has lost his father. Right, he lost his father in
the attack instituted by Grandma's herken that has memorialized by
a monument that is solely becoming overshadowed by more imperial
tyranny and oppression and violence and threat. And he says,
(18:39):
it really is good to know you. I'm really you know,
and in Casting, and I believe in my heart means it.
He has got that rough, rugged spy that is required
for to be successful and to be alive, especially in
the face of the Empire when he's they're right there
all around him. But he cares about this guy and
he just met him. They become kindred spirits, and I
(19:01):
really found that so charming and moving.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
I like that that perspective, Dan, and it made me
think of other parts of the episode, because this show
is a spy thriller, right Tony Gilroy of the Boorn
movie fame, and lots of other very h not quite
the spy who loved me fame, right, but it's in
that world spy espionage. And I agree with you, Dan,
(19:26):
I believe that in those moments, Cassian does care about
that individual, that person, But you can allow yourself to
question is he still playing is he still playing that role?
Is he is he trying to just bring this person's
defensive down, defenses down, so that he can exploit that
and try to get more information. I don't think that's
what's happening. Yeah, I wouldn't forgive anybody to think about
(19:50):
because Cassie is such a skilled spy. And then in
other parts of not to jump forward too much or
jump around too much. But we see, I found myself
in this episode questioning what do characters really know? And
I'll be honest, it's a lot about Cyril, But what
do question? What do these characters really know? And what
(20:11):
are they not letting on? And I love that sense
of unease because of that dynamic, And that's because this
show has earned all of that and has created that
kind of a situation for our own brains.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Sure, how interesting, see and I I really I agree
with you and I don't I just really don't think
for a second that Cassian is taking anything other than
about this guy and who he is and caring about
him and show and being like showing, hey, there are
people that care, not like in a let's hug it
out sort of a way. But I think I think
(20:44):
I why this was momentous this episode for me. I
think I needed this scene to feel like I can
sort of relate to Cassian. Can I trust him to
get the job done? Yeah? Can I trust him to
do the hard stuff and answer the tough questions?
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Hugh?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Bet? But can I count on him to care if
I'm hurting because of what has happened to me from
the Empire? Now I can because of this scene and
it's and the more we talk about the more I
think this is maybe one of the more important scenes
in the whole season. And I think I can back
that up later. But I want to switch it a
little bit. I want to talk about Cyril. Cyril. What
(21:26):
we're talking about when can we count on is Cyril
being himself? When is he not? When he talks with
Carl Rylands and I believe that's a French actor and
he is just dynamite. He is exquisite when he's talking
with Carl and his daughter ends Uh and his frustration.
(21:46):
Now I'm talking about now I'm talking about let me
go back, let me go back, I pull it the
wrong set of notes. Let's talk about Cyril, Cyril. When
it's Cyril that is talking with Carl, and he's talking
with the endstitute and then Dylan to a degree, and
he's sharing his outrage and his frustration that the isb
(22:07):
waltzed into his office in the Capital City and they're
just ripping everything apart looking for a listening device. He's
outraged they're treating him this way. He was interrogated for hours,
as he tells Carl, like a common criminal, and he's
(22:28):
outraged by it. We know, and we see it later
in the episode that when he meets with the major
part of Guz and Dedra, we know that this is
part of the ultimate plan to try to get him
ingratiated into these rebels goodwill so they will take him
into their confidence. So he gives them real intel to
(22:51):
let them think that something's happening. Right. But Cyril for
all is he's a really good investigator, even if you
think whatever you think about him. In season one, he
was on the money all the time. It's just said
they were one step out of him, and they were
just more prepared than he thought they were going to be.
But I guess I want to ask, and I'm going
(23:12):
to borrow from Greg and Gregg's Rebel Bass Card podcasts,
do we think that Cyril in this episode, in only
this episode, is he really is he really that good
of an actor? Or is he really kind of annoyed
with the isb what do you think? They're both looking
(23:36):
at each other? Can you hear it in the pilot
they're both looking at each other where you go? No,
you go?
Speaker 2 (23:44):
I think that he's playing a role very well. I
don't think he knew who planted that listening device in
his office, right right?
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I don't think so. I think it was an opportunity
he turned to use towards the advance. But I also
have a hard time believing that there wasn't a part
of him that was a little indignant to this, because
he very much has a high opinion of himself, which
is why is reladship with his mom, much more than
earlier episodes, is a little strained, because she doesn't appear
(24:15):
to have that opinion of him.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
Well, something Dan in this whole episode is nobody trusts anybody, right,
I mean even there's even factions among the rebels. Obviously
we've seen that already coming to this point, and then
we've got Sagerera and that's a whole different animal. But
on the Empire side, I don't think. I think that
(24:36):
there's a lot of mistrust happening all over the place.
He's probably a little annoyed because he thinks somebody might
be questioning him and his authority, and here he is
working hard to get the information that he wants to get.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
I don't get a sense that.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
I do think that he is kind of just playing
the role as good as he can can, because.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
We do know it's deep, deep cover, because every time
he has to go see de dra he has to
like completely go through some covert stuff to make that happen.
Even to give her a little kiss on the cheek,
he's got to turn off the light.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
One of my favorite scenes in the entire series. I
know we're not talking about that scene specifically, but they
those two are so awkward. It's so much fun to watch,
just incredible.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
It's also very sad too, So we can talk about
it now, because I mean she was raised in imperial
What was the word she used, not an orphan, I'm
not sure, but I mean she's never been She's never
had affection shown to her. She doesn't know how to
show it when she says it's good to see you happy,
(25:53):
when he says, is it okay? If I might justify
if I say this is the greatest day of my
life because Major Pargas says good job, like he wanted
to spike that football man. I know we're all over
the place, but I think there's a lot of richness here.
Sorry Colby, go ahead, no.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
No, no, don't, don't apologizes please, And I'm just so
grateful that we have a chance to talk about Cyril
as a character, and especially because of this episode. I
have very strong opinions about this character. I think he
is absolutely captivating as a character. I think Kyle Soler
is a magnificent performer. I've heard Denise Golf talk about
(26:29):
how he can do monologues with his eyes, and she
brought that scene up specifically. I think that's an amazing
way to describe someone's abilities. But to me, Cyril is
he is an absolutely disgraceful disgusting person, and I think
he's the type of person that all he's I do,
(26:51):
I really do, I really do. I don't think. I
don't think he is very tragic, and I think that
he I feel this way because I feel like he
has zero integrity, That he is the type of person
that is only out for one thing, and that's the
feeling of relevance. Even if he's not relevant, he just
wants to feel relevant. And I feel like he would
(27:11):
do anything to anybody to make himself feel that way.
And I feel that way. Respecting the rules about how
none of our episodes passed this exist in this conversation.
I felt like this about him since the since the
first season, and it was only reinforced again. I enjoy
watching him, I enjoy watching his story unfold, but I
(27:32):
really just feel like he has no integrity, and it's proven,
in my opinion, it's proven by that scene with Partigas
where he walks out of the room and he looks
at Deda and says that line about is it bad
if I feel like this is the greatest day of
my life?
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Really, just because you were validated by someone in high position.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Come on, do you think that all of what you
just said goes back to his upbringing. He's never gotten
the love really from his mother or from I do.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Yeah, okay, so yeah I do.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
And I you know the whole the constant Uncle Harlowe talk,
the manipulative manipulation by his mother. Yeah. I think it's
one hundred percent that he he was never validated by her.
I'm pretty safe. I feel safe. It's to say so.
All he does is he looks for that validation from
other people. So I don't think he's I was gonna say,
I don't think he's a monster. But I can't talk
(28:31):
any more about that.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
No you can't. I'm just I'm really biting my lip. John.
I want to hear what you think about that, and
I'm gonna unleash you Dye tribe. Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
I I agree.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I agree with Kolbia And that's a great character breakdown.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
I think I do find him fascinating. There are moments where.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
I think the action or the progression of the story
slows down a little bit with him. But that's not
his fault. I mean, that's who he that's the character
he's portraying. But it is a it's a deep dive
into kind of a narcissistic person who never got the
(29:14):
recognition that he probably should have gotten at an early age.
I do it before Dan, or if you want to
go on your diet drive, that's fine if we leave
this this section. I do have a question regarding the
conversation with Enza and her father and Sirril, but let's
let me hear your thoughts first.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Well, so here's the thing. I think he's got an
extremely high emotional like you. I think he's got an
incredibly high level of integrity. This man is not liking integrity.
This man is raised to believe the Empire is good,
order is good, rules are good if you break the law.
(30:00):
He doesn't know anything about Cassie and or his mission,
or his plight or his raison deetre. All he knows
is this guy killed some of my officers. He is
working with the empire, the elite isb agents to find
a criminal who's a murderer who might be trying to
(30:21):
create in this uprising. He doesn't know what the future
is and we don't either, because we're not going to
break the little rule that I've carefully crafted for this
little discussion. And like I said, when I teach literature,
even if people have seen a movie of a book.
I don't let him go ahead of the chatter, because
you're going to miss stuff I think he is doing.
(30:44):
I think he is so dangerous and why this character
in this series are so powerful because he's not black
and white, he's so gray. But the worst part about
it is guys, he doesn't know that it's great. He
thinks he's right, right, the you know, the great path
that evil is paid with good intentions. He thinks he's
doing right. He's not the Emperor. The Emperor knows he's
(31:05):
doing wrong. He loves doing wrong. He will kill you.
Same with the Joker. This guy is not that he's
got complete entary. He thinks he's capturing bad guys who
want to usurp the status quo. I think that gives
him a high level integrity. It's just misplaced.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
I love that perspective, and I love that the ability
to get me to think of things in a different light.
My response to that is that I look at his motivations.
He absolutely is dedicated to his cause right, and that cause,
from what we've been introduced to him, is about righting
a wrong that happened way back on his watch quote unquote, yes,
(31:46):
I would argue that he does this not because he's
he's motivated by some morality to right or wrong. It's
to catch a person who broke the rules which he
is super dremely committed to following and upholding, so he
can be rewarded by the personal gain that would come
(32:08):
with it. He worries so much about his status, and
we see that in his conversations with Dejah status going forward,
living on Corriscant, having a rank, making sure his uh
he looks the right way. I feel like and I
would be one hundred percent okay with being wrong. I
just feel like his motivations are always selfishly based on
(32:30):
what can what am I? How am I going to
reward be rewarded by accomplishing these goals, which are good
goals in his mind because of his commitment to the
things that we've talked about and being sort of raised
in the empire.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
I just feel like he's selfishly motivated because what's in
it for me? I'm going to continue to go down
this road because I want to benefit from.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
It, but I like it. I don't think that makes
him selfish though. I think that makes him a person
who like, if you want validation for a job well done,
you don't do it because of that, but does help
you feel like you're on the right path. Like if
I'm a baseball player and I keep getting if I
hit three hundred or whatever, I'm not doing it so
(33:17):
somebody will tell me, hey, good job, I'm doing it
because I want to hit three hundred. Now someone tell me, hey,
good job. I really like your form up there, You've
got your elbow correctly, and blah blah blah, and all
this kind of stuff that helps you feel good about yourself.
But that's not your reason, because that is unfulfilling, right.
(33:37):
He seems to fulfill before it's a little empty because
of the way his mother erodes him. But I don't
think he does it for that. I think that is
a wonderful side product, But I don't. I think these
are mutually exclusive concepts. I love this conversation. I love
this listening to coffee with Knoby. You are with dan
Z the podcast you're looking for this is and just
(34:10):
like that, our journey through the galaxy for today has
come to a close. This is only part one of
our conversation. For I have friends everywhere, and I can't
wait to share part two with you. That's why I
stopped kind of in a little cliffhanger part and I
think you're really going to enjoy the continued conversation with myself,
John Allois and Colby Mead. Always great to talk with them.
Thank you so much for joining me on CWK, the
(34:31):
place where thoughtful Star Wars conversation pairs nicely with your
favorite cup of coffee, whether you're on the go, relaxing
at home, or sipping Kafi your favorite corner of the galaxy.
I'm truly grateful you chose to spend part of your
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