London Calling's Iconic Album Art Accident (ft. Steve Sladkowski)

In the latest episode of Columbia House Party, hosts Jake Goldsbie and Blake Murphy are joined by Steve Sladkowski (@sladkow) of PUP (@puptheband) to discuss one of the most important albums of all time, The Clash's London Calling. Find out more about The Clash's slower path to a monstrous third-album success, how London Calling pulled from dozens of sounds to influence dozens more, and why it's so necessary to consume art with an appreciation of the context it was created within on this week's podcast.

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See you next week for another episode of CHP.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:24):
London calling to the far away towns Now. War is
declared and battle come down London calling for the latest
episode of Columbia House Party. Jake, what's up man?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I don't like that. I don't get to like fake
tease the episode that everyone already knows what we're doing
this week because the name of the album is the
first two words of the opening song gave it away.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, it's because we're punk rock more today than ever
we are.

Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's true. If there's one thing I've always said about us,
it's that we're extremely punk rock.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
This is Jake Columbia House Party. If you're listening, thank
you so much, thanks for following along. If you're new, welcome.
If you're a Patreon supporter, thank you a little extra
or just rate, review, subscribe all that good stuff. Just
make us feel good. Leave nice comments for Jake on
your iTunes review or I don't know if you can
review on other stuff, but Jake needs that external validation,
you know, And it's a it's just just be nice

(01:15):
to Jake and whatever, whether that's with your money or
with your reviews or with your money, just be nice
to Jake.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
I agree. Just be nice to Jake. I think that's
the moral of the more of today's show.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, I can't imagine this episode is going to follow
those instructions given who today's guest is, but almost certainly
we'll see how it goes. You just got everyone excited
that it's Lauren. Yeah, yeah, Jake, what do you got
for us?

Speaker 2 (01:38):
So I'm truly not sure how to really intro this one.
As we've talked about some big ones before, but I'm
going to say this is the biggest.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
This is an album and a band for me that
I that like, I feel like this album and this
band get talked about a lot in very cliched tones
of like they change you music for me forever, but
like this band legitimately changed music for me forever, and
this album did two. We talked on a bonus episode
not too long ago about our album title Belts and

(02:12):
our favorite albums over the years, and I didn't mention
this one because I'm not sure it's ever been my
favorite at the moment, but it's an album that sort
of lives in the background of all my favorites that
I guess probably makes it my like favorite album on
the whole ever, but not maybe in specific moments. I

(02:33):
don't know if I'm explaining that well. So today we
are talking about a seminal album, an album very genuinely
in the conversation for the greatest rock album of all time.
We are talking about the clashes. London Calling, Calling to
the barrow.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
It sounds the worst and.

Speaker 4 (02:55):
Battle will calm down on the call it to the.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Come out of the cover, you boys.

Speaker 5 (03:02):
And girls, London Calling.

Speaker 4 (03:05):
That don't look to us phony Biddlemania's burning the dos,
Lon Carling.

Speaker 3 (03:12):
See, we ain't.

Speaker 6 (03:13):
Got no swing except for the ring of the twenty
of the icy starm it the sun summing in melt.

Speaker 7 (03:22):
Down expected the wheat is going this engine stuff on him.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
But I had no bill because London and clown and
a live on the river.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
I get this, London Carly, I was there too, and
you know what they said. Some of it was true,
London Carly at the top of the dial.

Speaker 3 (03:59):
Ma'am.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
So Jake to help us with London Calling. There are
a few reasons we tap today's guest. First of all,
he's a wonderful guest and a wonderful friend, so it'll
be insightful. This is also my third podcast recording in
a row today and also I had radio in another
interview earlier this morning, so we needed a guest who

(04:36):
will be able to fill some airspace with you because
my voice is on empty a little bit here. I
won't spoil the story here, but to help us go
through London calling is our good friend Steve Slidekowski, the
guitarist of the Toronto SKA band Pup. You know I'm
from at slad Cow on social Steve, what's up?

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Man?

Speaker 1 (04:54):
How are you?

Speaker 8 (04:54):
Are you implying that I'm like, I'm verbose? Is that
what's going on here? I'm long window.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I say, you have a lot of insight and you'll
have a lot to say. I know you've even written
about this album. No, I would never criticize anyone else's
word economy because it would be the biggest throwing stones
from a glasshouse moment.

Speaker 8 (05:15):
Jake, I think what you said was right and we
can get into that. I'm good, Blake. Hi, Hey guys,
how's it going?

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Hey man?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Man, Steve?

Speaker 1 (05:23):
What are you doing over there? Man? You're cooking up
some gravy tonight? Or what's to do?

Speaker 9 (05:27):
No?

Speaker 8 (05:28):
I taught I've been teaching a little bit just as
a sort of a way of keeping the guitar in
my hands and kind of thinking about things a little
bit differently than just from like kind of a pupp framework.
And then mostly been hanging out. I've been reading a lot,
you know, trying to do some stuff in the neighborhood
and you know, volunteer. What's yeah, some NDP related causes

(05:52):
and stuff. So there you go, you know, finding ways
to stay busy.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Steve, I asked you a little while back what your
first album you purchased with your own money were, and
then they didn't really fit in the arc that we
were doing, so I massaged it to be London Calling
because I knew it was one of your earliest albums.
Before we get into it, tell me tell the listeners
what your actual first albums that you purchased were.

Speaker 8 (06:16):
My actual first album that I purchased, I believe was,
was The Who's Tommy from a small It would have
been in blu Or West Village in West Toronto when
I was I don't know, probably in between nineteen ninety
five and nineteen ninety seven, so it would have been
a CD and I would have been ten or less

(06:36):
years old. I don't remember the exact date, but yeah,
ten or less years old. But the London Calling and
and the clash kind of as I was sort of
getting into rock and roll generally. You know, that's obviously,
you know, having like my dad having Q one or
seven on in the car and stuff. That was always

(06:57):
a band that was sort of right there. And Jake, honestly,
I really like the way you said it and you
phrased it kind of like this band exists in the background,
and this record itself exists in the background and has
I think for me in the same way and informed
a lot of the stuff that I love, especially kind
of from like a punk background. But you know, London Calling.

(07:19):
I'm sitting here in front of my computer, in front
of this microphone, and I'm holding the copy of London
Calling that I bought. I had it on CD as well,
but I have a vinyl copy that I bought ages
and ages and ages ago, not much longer after I
would have bought the Who's Tommy? Probably five if four
or five years later when I kind of discovered that

(07:40):
my dad had a bunch of records, like like vinyl
records sitting in the kind of like attic of my
childhood home and discovered that there was a really awesome
record store within walking distance in the junction in the
West End where I grew up called Pandemonium Books and Discs,
which is still open to this day actually, and you

(08:02):
should absolutely be supporting your local record stores. And I
got this this copy of London Calling from there, not
not that much longer after I kind of started buying music.
So it feels very kind of spiritually in that realm.
So it was an easy shoehorn, I guess that is
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
And this album means so much to you that you
wrote a piece, a short essay about it that I
edited for you, which was why when we when we
kicked around doing a clash episode, it was still in
my head that this one meant a lot to you.
Do you want to fill the people in on what
that essay was about or do you want to save
that for when we're getting into the teeth of the
album a little bit?

Speaker 3 (08:41):
We can?

Speaker 8 (08:42):
We can? I mean I think I think I called
it a perfect record. I think we can say that
for now and then and then they they continued to
sort of work that angle, but but yeah, it is
a it is a very this band London Calling combat
rock Sandinista. This is a band that really kind of

(09:06):
still to this day, I hear things in these songs
that that I've I'm that are new to me and
that I'm always kind of further inspired by. But we
can we can kind of move on from there for sure.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, for me, this is a big like band. I
went back not to make myself seem way less cool
than you guys, but that's the truth. And it was
a big band who influenced my band kind of thing
where I went back to it later and you hear
so much of what every fucking alt rock and pop
punk band borrowed from, similar to when we did the
Pixies episode like that. It's just dripping in. It's so

(09:38):
obvious how it influenced pretty much everyone of the the
style of bands that that I listen to now. I
also appreciate that they named the album after an outskirt
of the region, London, Ontario. Of course, the five one nine.
You know, I personally would have gone with Kitchener calling
or Cambridge calling. If you wanted to get historic Kitchen

(10:00):
you used to be called Berlin, you could have gone
with Berlin calling. But London's fine. Appreciate the respect to
the region, Jake, And I know you kind of teed
this up this way. Your big connection to this one
is like this was The Clash was the only band
you gave a shit about for a good chunk of
your music listening history, right, Yeah, Like.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
This finding the Clash kicked off like a year's long
obsession with them. Like if you go into the den
in our apartment where all our books are, there's like
a good seven or eight books in there on the
Clash and more specifically on Joe Strummer himself. He really
became like my musical political hero guy for a lot

(10:45):
of my youth. And obviously I still hold him in
very high regard, but I feel like I'm too old
to have, you know, celebrity heroes now. But he and
the band were really it was really like unlike anything
I had experien It's the time like I got into
this record in my very early teens. I think Amanda Stepto,

(11:06):
who played Spike under Grassy, gave it to me because
she knew that I was getting into punk and she
was like, you're getting into punk, you have to listen
to London Calling and The Clash, And I was like okay,
And I remember at first I actually didn't like it
as much because I preferred the self titled record because
it was louder and quote unquote punkier. But this one

(11:28):
stuck with me in my head more. And then when
I gave it like a full go a week or
two later, it was like it just it turned me
on to so many different genres. Even though it is
ostensibly a punk record, it's also so very clearly not
And as someone who was getting heavily into scot at

(11:49):
that time as well, obviously this is full of that
and you know, rockabilly, and it really is an album
that is hard to quantify. And of all the albums
we've talked about on this show, this was definitely the
hardest one to pick what songs to talk about.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Oh yeah, there's just so many.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
There's so many, man Like, I could probably talk about
every single one for you know, a half hour longer
at a time, and.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
I feel like I would cut you off at that point.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
We could have done a month, We could have done
a month of episodes that's just talking about the songs
on this record.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
I like what we we come in with me saying, hey,
I've done a ton of audio work today. I can't
talk a lot in Jake's like seven hour podcasts. Let's go.
Who's ready, Yeah, we're ready. We're gonna talk about the
Clashes Lendon Calling after this, all right, Jake run us

(12:57):
through the background. I'm gonna sit back and let you
and Steve to bounce some of this stuff off each other.
Steve jump in obviously wherever, wherever you see fit. It's
only Jake, so assert yourself. However, Jake, take us through
a little history of the Clash before we get the
London Calling, so.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
To speed through a little bit of the early history. So,
like I said, we're out here all day. The Clash
were formed in nineteen seventy six after the dissolution of
Joe Strummers the One of One Ers and Mick Jones's
London SS. The original life of the band was Joe
Strummer on vocals, Mick Jones on guitar, Keith Levine on guitar,
Paul simonon on bass, and Terry Chimes on drums. When

(13:36):
they were forming the group, Nicki Topper heading drummed the
band for about a week before quitting, but we'll come
back to him. The name was coined by Paul Simonon.
As he explained in an MTV rockumentary, it really came
to my head when I started reading the newspapers and
a word that kept recurring was the word clash. So
I thought, the clash, what about that to the others,

(13:57):
and they and Bernard, our manager, they went for it.
Very exciting story. Their manager, Bernard being Bernard Rhodes, who
is an episode of this show. Unto himself, he was
an associate of Malcolm McLaren who famously formed and founded
or managed and founded the sex Pistols. Speaking of the
sex Pistols, who think we will only come up a
couple times. The Clash made their debut on July fourth,

(14:19):
nineteen seventy six, opening for the sex Pistols. They were
determined to get on stage before their neighborhood rivals The Damned,
who also spun out of London ss and who are
also an excellent band and one of my favorites. After
their debut show, Bernard Roads insisted that the band not
perform again until they were tighter, so they spent the

(14:40):
following month rehearsing. In the Clash documentary West Way to
the World, which I have on DVD Somewhere. Joe Strummer
said we were almost stalinist in the way that you
had to shed all your friends are every way that
you'd played before. Strummer and Jones wrote the band's songs,
Jones saying that Joe would give me the words and
I would make a song out of them. They would

(15:00):
play another show in August of nineteen seventy six, in
a pivotal moment in British punk, it was the clash
with Buzzcocks and the sex Pistols. That September, they would
fire Keith Levine, who would go on to form Public
Image Limited with John Lyden, who are a much better
band than the sex Pistols, but also fuck John Lyden.
He was briefly replaced by Rob Harper on guitar as

(15:23):
the clash support of the sex Pistols on their Anarchy tour,
but was that relieved of his duties as well. Yes, correct, I.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Don't want to Steve.

Speaker 8 (15:35):
No, no, Jake's on the nose right now.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah all right man.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, I didn't want to turn this into a podcast
of shitting on the sex Pistols, but we can if
we want.

Speaker 8 (15:42):
Well, I mean, I just I think it's obvious at
this point the public image limited comment is the one
that really kind of just seals the yeah, seals the deal,
in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Agreed. The Clash signed with Capitol Records for one hundred
thousand pounds. Clash the story, and Marcus Gray said in
his book Return of the Last Gang in Town that
the band members found themselves having to justify the deal
to both the music press and to fans who picked
up on critics muttered assides about The Clash having sold
out to the establishment. It's the Clash being a band

(16:13):
that sold out before they released a record despite being
signed to that label. They finally released a debut single
in March of nineteen ninety seven, which is the legendary
White Riot. The self titled debut album came out in
April nineteen seventy seven in the UK and was then
released two years later with revised track lists in the
United States in nineteen seventy nine because CBS refused to

(16:35):
release the album in the United States because they felt
it was poorly produced and the sound wouldn't be marketable.
It's great. It's obviously not as monumental as London Calling,
but it's up there with some of my all time
favorite records, but we're not talking with them today, so
I'm speeding through it. The band would then set out
on the White Riot Tour with Buzzcock, Subway Sect, The Slits,

(16:55):
and The Prefects. Shortly after the release of recording the
self titled album, Terry Chimes left the band and was
replaced by Topper heaten Uh. They would release their second album,
Give Him Enough Rope in nineteen seventy eight, which sort
of features the start of their experimentation and departure away
from a traditional punk rock sound. For example, this song

(17:18):
Julie's been working for the Drug Squad.

Speaker 5 (17:31):
This Usian guy, I don't get an album by singing
squeez God love so Gleen stop Flada, un friends, real.

Speaker 4 (17:49):
World, Bata, drug spott.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Even looking.

Speaker 5 (17:58):
Well too good to be true, stashing in the bank
while the Das go high and the mail.

Speaker 7 (18:07):
And everyone Hi aya what someone look down from that
soon have been working for the drug squad? Ston working
the drug squad.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
You can't get out.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Nothing still, that's a Julie has been working for the
Drug Squad. Is that era's version of Robin Hayward thanking
the Boston Police Department for checking in on her daily
when when Hayward left, it's Robin's been been working for
the BPD and very nice joke of making I'm sorry.

Speaker 8 (19:06):
I like it, no, I like it Pagama Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:10):
A cool thing about the American tour Forgiven Enough Rope
was that the band recruited acts such as Bo Diddley,
Sam and Dave, Lee Dorsey, Screamin' Jay Hawkins, and The
Cramps to open for them, exposing them and their audience
to a more American side of rock and roll, of

(19:32):
which the band was becoming quite a fan. They also
separated from Bernard Rhodes as their manager, which was probably
a good call. That separation meant the band had to
find a new studio and rehearsal space. They ended up
in the back of a garage called Vanilla Studios. They
arrived with no new songs prepared for their third album,
as Jones and Strummer were going through a period of

(19:53):
writer's block. As the band began writing and rehearsing, they
also began widening their genre scope and experimenting. They also
closed their rehearsals to outsiders, unlike they had done for
their previous album, which allowed their friends to come hang out,
which they felt helped build their confidence to experiment with sounds.

(20:13):
Marcus Gray wrote in his book about London calling called
Route nineteen Revisited so that the band was extremely disciplined
and had a routine of rehearsals followed by an afternoon
soccer game followed by drinks at the pub, followed by
more rehearsals, which sounds like a fun day to sort
of get over the writer's block. To get going, they

(20:34):
focused mainly on cover songs in the genres they wanted
to expand into, and were also very centered by Headen's drumming,
which they felt could push them into other sounds because
he could kind of play whatever once again. Mick Jones
wrote most of the music for the album, while Strummer
handled the lyrics, which he found from all sorts of places.

(20:56):
Lost in the Supermarket, which was an early favorite of
mine was inspired by imagining Mick Jones's childhood growing up
in a basement with his mother and grandmother. I also
didn't know that Strummer wrote Jones's lyrics.

Speaker 8 (21:08):
Yeah, that is one of the best, in my opinion,
one of the like the best punk rock. That is
like proto emo yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
I think maybe that's why I liked it so much
when I was younger.

Speaker 8 (21:20):
Yeah, it's like it is one of the best clash
songs I think still.

Speaker 2 (21:26):
Yeah, And I think what I liked about it too,
is like, when I was obviously in early teens, I
wanted the songs that, like I could kind of relate
to or twist to be about being a sad teen.
And because Strummer and the class wrote about such like
heavy political ideas like lost Supermarket, I was like, oh, okay,

(21:46):
I can sort of identify with that one.

Speaker 9 (22:01):
I'm all last in the super market, came along the shop, Hadden.
I came in here for a special after guarantee personality.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
How was the month?

Speaker 10 (22:16):
So much as I fired out, nobody seemed to notice me.

Speaker 6 (22:21):
We had a h back home in a suburb over.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
Which I never could see. I know the people who
live on the ceiling.

Speaker 9 (22:31):
Screaming fight for school.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Hearing that noise was.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
My first step Buffy healing.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
And now it's been all around me.

Speaker 9 (22:41):
I'm all lasting the super market, I'm getting along the shop.

Speaker 7 (22:47):
I came in there for the special.

Speaker 6 (22:50):
Love guarantee personality.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
All lost, I'm all lost, shut out.

Speaker 1 (23:19):
So that was Lost in the Supermarket, which is my
favorite song. I also I love the term proto emo Steve.

Speaker 8 (23:26):
Yeah, I mean, how else do you explain a song
with the lyric I wasn't born so much as I
fell out.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
As how you like, Steve, You're saying that you think
this is one of the best clash songs, which I
agree with, by the way, but I'm curious as to
why this one hits for you.

Speaker 8 (23:46):
I think there's this kind of element of especially kind
of in the seventies, of kind of thinking about punk
in such a way that it is very much as
much as it is sort of in op position to
the excesses of rock and roll and and kind of
like your led Zeppelins and whatnot, there's still this idea

(24:10):
that it is about kind of like toughness and this
sort of like weird, kind of overly masculine, you know,
this sort of like up tempo, heavy, fast, loud, brash,
fuck you anarchy, and you know, and this is like
Lost in the Supermarket is one of the more kind

(24:31):
of introspective. It's it's it's down tempo a little bit
more not like super down tempo, but like comparatively, you know,
to to something like I'm so bored of the USA,
for example, And you know it is it is not
talking about, as you say, Jake, like kind of like
it's not getting into that kind of deeply political or

(24:53):
or very kind of like it's not unsocially conscious, but
it's it's approaching a lot of these these themes, these
kind of like lyrical and narrative themes of punk rock
in kind of a different way. And I do think
there's this sort of opening up in this vulnerability there
that you don't associate with a lot of seventies punk.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
The first track that was recorded for this album was
actually a cover, which is track two on the record,
which is brand New Cadillac. It's one of the songs
I used to use to warm up for their recording sessions,
and they decided to put it on the album, which
I think was a good call and I didn't know
was a cover for a very very long time.

Speaker 8 (25:33):
I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
It also confused the hell out of me the first
time I heard the record, because like I was going
in you know, Clasher, the legendary punk band that everyone
talks about associated with Green Day and then London calling
the singles like okay, Yeah, and then there's just like
a rockabilly tune. It's really interestingly placed. I think there's
a lot of album lineup construction here that I want

(25:56):
to talk about later. That's extremely odd.

Speaker 9 (25:59):
You know.

Speaker 8 (25:59):
What's kind of interesting though, having thought about this now
as sort of a culmination of having played with Screaming
Jay Hawkins and Bo Diddley and some of that sort
of like roots that sort of like kind of like
two tone and black roots of American rock music, it
makes a little bit more sense some of the stuff

(26:21):
here kind of having kind of a rockabilly sort of
like fifties rock and roll even like again, the cover
and I say this in the consequence of sound piece,
but it's it's a riff on an Elvis cover, right,
And and there is that sort of there's this reverence
I think, for the history of rock and roll up
to that point, which already in nineteen when did this

(26:41):
come out, seventy eight, seventy nine, seventy.

Speaker 2 (26:43):
Nine, seventy nine.

Speaker 8 (26:44):
Yeah, there's already twenty five years of history in this music.
Ish that's you know, give or take, and it's very
interesting to see them kind of reckoning with that while
also kind of talking about and being aware of what's
going on in London in Brixton.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
You know.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, it's actually a nice little segue here exactly what
you're talking about. It is probably my favorite song on
the album, or one of my favorite songs on the album,
which is Spanish Bombs, which is a song that Strummer
wrote driving home from the studio one night and hearing
a news report about a hotel on the Costa Brava
in Spain which was bombed by Basque terrorists, and then

(27:22):
he used that to juxtapose the IRA bombings which were
going on in the UK. And so to your point
you were saying before, it's a lot of I don't
know if it was the whole band or just Strummer,
but a lot of distilling history and current events or
past events into both the music itself and sort of

(27:43):
the thematic world.

Speaker 8 (27:46):
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's a very you know,
and like it's it's it's also so interesting to think about,
you know, kind of how we can contemporarily think of
Basque separatists and the IRA now versus how would have
been related, you know, then where where the IRA attacking
London would be would be this huge terrorist attack when really,

(28:09):
if you look at the history of oppression and then
the history of oppression of the Basque people, it's kind
of like the British are the oppressors the Spanish state
in the sort of aftermath of Franco that these are
the It's it's like so interesting to to and that
was all kind of going on that is being processed
in real time, yeah, in these songs, and in a

(28:33):
way that like it's one thing about like you know,
one thing for the sex persons to say, God save
the Queen. It's like very shocking, but it's kind of
like okay, cool, great, Like this is like real, like
intensive you know, the Guns of Brixton kind of I
believe is also a reaction, yes, to the riots that
happened in Brixton.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
And I think what's interesting at that point with their
real time reaction is like I think a thing that
people forget about the Clash in their quite fair lionization
of them is that, like the Clash, we're essentially a
boy band to start, like they were put together and
marketed very purposefully, and you can hear in their music

(29:16):
as they went along and as they learned about the
world and music, like their real time reactions are also
kind of being sorted through in their work at the
same time, which I find like they have a lot
of stuff that you're like, wow, you shouldn't say that
in their music, but then you hear it in context
and they're just kind of sorting through what they're learning

(29:38):
about it. And I find I think because their discography
is so condensed and quick, you kind of just like
track them through it, and by the time you get
to combat Rock opening with Know Your Rights, it's like, oh, okay,
they it's I find them very very interesting.

Speaker 8 (29:55):
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's messy. Yeah, it's very nice.
It's not you know, it's like not clean and and
packaged and sanitized in a way that a lot of
even a lot of resistance music, yeah, could very easily
be sanitized and packaged now, whether that be punk or otherwise,

(30:20):
you know.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
And I think we see we see that happening all
the time, Like there are whole swaths of punk music
right now that is even even if I like some
of it, it's very like packaged. Yeah, Which isn't to say, like,
you know, major label punk is necessarily bad, but there
is there is that inherent sort of hypocrisy in it.

Speaker 8 (30:42):
Yeah, and and and also just like there's also an
under I think an understanding here that only comes through
having worked through this music, like like you would not
be able to work through some of these musical genre
crossings in the way that The Clash did now as

(31:05):
four white guys in a band. And I don't think
that's a problem. I think that's fucking great and that's okay. Yeah,
you know, like like we like like I there are
things that were accomplished on this record, like on a
Rudy Camp fail or on a Jimmy Jazz where there's
sort of this like Dubbie kind of ska but kind
of reggae and kind of like and you know, the
Specials are kind of around at this time, and even

(31:27):
Elvis Costello is you know, sort of just coming up
and and there's a lot of that kind of like
that like two tone, the English beat, and and I
think there's that's a very specific thing happening in London
that if you're a part of it and you play
that music, you were a part of it. And there's

(31:49):
an understanding there that like me being a guy in
Toronto who as a kid, grew up loving a lot
of this like Scott Punk hybrid as much as I
like to like act like when you guys make the
joke on Twitter that it's not something that uh that
you know that I that I see at the end
of the day, like like you are, you are talking
about music that generally speaking had black influence and black representation,

(32:15):
and that is very much I think understood through the
lens of history in a in a very complicated way,
but in a way that like you can revere it
without emulating it. And and I think it's important to
understand kind of how how those subtleties happen. And I

(32:38):
think there are bands out there that don't right now currently.

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, I think that's a very good way to put that.

Speaker 8 (32:44):
And you know, I'm also like we're like three straightway
guys talking about this, so like let's temper everything here,
like like you know, but it's it's but I do
think it's just like there's something there's something pretty, there's
something powerful there that I think being nuanced and and
thinking critically about it, which are two very important skills

(33:04):
as a creative person. As three creative people speaking here,
I think nuance and critical thinking are very important. I
don't know if you guys agree, but I think they
are kind of a top you know, those are important
skills to have, and yeah, I just think there's a way,
a way in which you negotiate some of those things
of like these moments and these real time kind of

(33:27):
distillations that like, you know, music does it faster than film,
but shorter than writing. It is sort of how I
think about it. You know, it's a lot easier for
you to sit down and write a book probably and

(33:47):
have that out quickly, depending on what the subject matter
is than a double record with eighteen songs and a
hidden track. But it's easier to make that than it
is to make a three hour film that ties together
a narrative. You know, I don't know, And obviously this
is very like a very reductive but I just think

(34:09):
there is kind of this. It is hard to filter
things from the past through a lens without kind of
trying to read some of the context in which it
was created. And I don't think that excuses things that
are problematic at all, but it is an important kind
of critical lens. Yeah, critical engagement. I don't know, I'm

(34:33):
kind of getting abstract and nebulous.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
No no, no, I get what you're saying. I'm going
to try to get us back on the run. Sheheet
a little bit here, but like you know, so you
have to appreciate those things and recognize it, and like
stripping the music of that context does the music at disservice.
So like if you're Beto and come out to clamp Down,
you know that loses some of what Clampdown is about
it and the meaning. And so I don't know if

(34:56):
I'm saying exactly like I know you're saying. As much
the music has to be true to its routes, but
I think that people consuming it have to as well,
you know, be true to the context of those songs.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Getting us back to the making of London Calling. One
of the main players credited on this album is producer
Guy Stevens, who Rolling Stone has called the unsung hero
of the album. Up to this point, he was known
for his work with bands like Mott the Hoople and
The Faces. Paul Simonon told Rolling Stone in twenty thirteen

(35:30):
that he was really important and he helped create a
very positive atmosphere, even though he was a little crazy,
but he was like a conductor. He brought out the
best in everybody, and he was the crazy one that
let us not be crazy and get on with the job.
I think if you put us all in the room together,
you look at Guy and say, yeah, he's the crazy one.
Those other guys they're the normal ones. Stevens selection was

(35:51):
controversial as CBS Records was not pleased with the choice
because he had unconventional recording methods such as swinging ladders
and throwing chairs around during recordings to quote create a
rock and roll atmosphere, which is how I assume Steve
you guys record everything as well. Absolutely, the reason I
bring him up at this point is because he really

(36:13):
made Paul Simonon feel comfortable in the recording session. As
somewhat famously or infamously however you will look at it,
Paul Simonon didn't really know how to play music when
he joined the Clash and really know how to play
bass or guitar and kind of learned as he went,
and Guy Stevens apparently made him feel very comfortable with
this fact and encouraged him to pick up guitars and

(36:35):
start writing songs. Stevens would tragically pass away of a
drug overdose in nineteen eighty one and the class would
write the song Midnight to Stevens in his honor. But
his influence led to the creation of another one of
the songs that I think is in the running for
best clash song, and that is the Paul Simonon led
Guns of Brixton.

Speaker 8 (37:16):
A kick out fin.

Speaker 5 (37:19):
Hi dot com.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Check out when Bacon.

Speaker 5 (37:29):
Oh Yeah, I gotta go shut down on the head
man Old Wedding and that will.

Speaker 6 (37:36):
You can crush out.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
You can bruise that by your hot door.

Speaker 10 (37:40):
Fo huh.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
That song is the only song on the album written
by Simonon and is also the first song he ever
wrote by himself, which is a pretty good batting average
right off the top. The song was inspired by Jimmy
Cliff's movie The Harder They Come. Paul Simon said that
he grew up in a South London neighborhood of South Brixton,
where the song imagine Jimmy Cliff's Ivan character from the

(38:18):
nine seventy two film The Harder They Come. Residing said
the mystery of writing songs had become a bit clearer.
That was a big moment for me. The thing I
realized was songwriters get all the money. You don't get
paid for designing records, sleeves and clothes, which is a
good quote. It was possibly recorded in one or two takes,
and according to the Last Testament the Making of London Calling,

(38:41):
Simonon recorded the vocals for the song staring directly at
a CBS Records executive who is visiting the studio, as
he felt that would give him the proper emotion in
his voice with a song. And it's real good. It's
a real good song.

Speaker 8 (38:55):
It's so interesting, you know, to just kind of hear
there's some stuff there out of it. I didn't know,
but but to hear again and there you go, like
influenced by Jimmy Cliff and influenced by you know, this
sort of like like The Hard of They Come is
like kind of like a reggae gangster movie, and like,
you know, I just was looking up it kind of

(39:16):
is an interesting sort of parallel with like Rong and
Boyo as those sort of like two tunes on the record.
It's so interesting that that he that he's kind of
thinking about that that movie and Jimmy Cliff, you know,
Rong and Boyo is is a cover by a guy
named Clive Alfonso, who it seems was a studio one

(39:37):
like reggae guy, and then Rong and Boyo is like
talking about like stagger Lee, which is like this mythical
kind of like folk character that comes up in murder ballads,
in rock and roll and in gambling songs. So this
is like, you know, there's the card cheat, there's these
these like interesting through lines of sort of like that again,

(39:58):
very like what what at the time was called two
tone music of like this this like deep reverence for
Black Caribbean and Black American music and the traditions and
and the ways in which those stories are told. That
I think is like really really fascinating, and it's something
that I've never like I'm still kind of you can

(40:19):
get you guys can kind of hear me like feeling
it out here, but like it is really something that
there's an element to that on this record that I
think in like, even though a year ago I was
thinking about it, I haven't fully gotten there. But yeah,
it's so interesting to hear him say that he was
thinking about about the heart of They Come. I'm fascinated

(40:41):
by that, and.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
I think to your like, in one of the many
clash books I've read in my life that like Strummer
and Jones spent a lot of time around this time
going to Jamaica and going to Kingston and being in
those neighborhoods and trying to and like not, so they
not entirely writing from obviously it's entirely from an outsider's perspective,

(41:06):
but at least attempting to immerse themselves in culture and
that world a little bit as well.

Speaker 8 (41:14):
Yeah, I mean the Beguns of Brixton just sounds like
dub it doesn't. It doesn't, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (41:19):
Like it's like and then you especially when you think
about where they would go on Sandinista, where it's like
some of that is directly just dub songs.

Speaker 8 (41:27):
It's uh, it makes sense music. Look at us agreeing
on music.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
We never do that.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
Well, that's the power of London calling baby.

Speaker 8 (41:35):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
What's the rare real music you actually liked?

Speaker 8 (41:38):
Yeah, I know, I know, I know, there's very there's
very Yeah, there's I was gonna say, there's very few
like things I actually like, all in capitals that that
have also been like pressed millions and millions of times.
So it's a nice. It's a nice. It's nice to
talk about things you like. Actually much much though we
might mean much much of the the Internet might make

(41:58):
us think other way.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Anyway. The other song that I was gonna say is
in the running for one of the best clash songs,
which has now been ruined by Beto O'Rourke as you
lose to earlier, is the song Clampdown, which is a
takedown of capitalists society that has weirdly not gotten less
relevant since nineteen seventy nine. Funny how that works. Joe apparently,

(42:26):
who would have thought they wouldn't have fixed it? But
Joe Strummer saw the Clampdown as being caught up in
the economic wage hour system, which I think many of
us can relate to. Simonin would expand on this, telling
the La Times what was worse was that when it
got time for us to start leaving school, they took

(42:46):
us out on trips to give us an idea of
what jobs were available, but they didn't try to introduce
us to anything exciting or meaningful. They took us to
the power station in the Navy yards. It was like saying,
this is all you guys could ever do. Some of
the kids for it. We got taken down to the
navy yards. We went on a ship and we got
cooked up dinner and it was all chips and beans.
It was really great. So some of the kids joined

(43:08):
up because it was better than the food that they
ate at home. Strummer would follow up and say, I'm
not like Paul and the others. I had a chance
to be a good, normal person in quotes, with a
nice car and a house in the suburbs, the golden
apple or whatever you call it. But I saw through it.
I saw it was an empty life. I only saw
my father once a year after being sent to boarding school.
He was a real disciplinarian who was always giving me

(43:29):
speeches about how he had pulled himself up by the
sweat of his brow, a real guts and determination man.
What he was really saying to me was, if you
play by the rule, you can end up like me.
And I saw right away I didn't want to end
up like him. Once I got on my own, I
realized I was right. I saw how the rules worked,
and I didn't like them. The song also went through

(43:50):
several name changes. It was originally called Working and Awaiting,
and that it was called for fock's sake, and then
they actually decided to write the lyrics which gave them
the title. Despite all of those very valid points, and
I think that's a very relevant and great song. It
is not the song that I want to play a
club from or talk about, because I want to talk
about Death or Glory, which is my favorite song on

(44:13):
the album. Like I said earlier, we can talk about
individual songs in this all day, so I'm picking and
choosing as I can. Death or Glory is a song
written about sort of the previous generation of rock stars
who swore they die before they got old, and how
it's kind of a stupid idea, especially relevant now as

(44:34):
I saw the Who like four years ago play my
generation as old men and so that didn't really work.
French rock critic Philip Maneuvre called the song a parody
of Thin Lizzie, which makes me like it even more.
I was originally written by Strummer on piano, and this
was also the song that Guy Stevens through chairs around
during the recording of AllMusic has said this song is

(44:55):
the best and most satisfying chord progression and melody that
the band ever came up with, and in an article
for in Vulture, Bill Wyman ranked it as the seventh
best Clash song. There's obviously a ton of songs on
this album, and there's actually a story behind that, because
it was a trick by the band. They were in

(45:15):
a fight with CBS Records because they wanted to release
a double album and sell it for the price of
a single album, and obviously CBS Records were not into
that idea, so they struck a deal with their label
that they would release a single album with a bonus
seven inch single, like they had done with their debut. However,
after this was agreed to, the band decided that the

(45:38):
bonus single would actually be a twelve inch and that
it would feature eight songs. The single in quotes eventually
ballooned into nine songs, which turned the record into a
double album, which ended up selling for the same price
as a single album, and Strummer would later tell Melody
Maker in nineteen seventy nine that it was their first

(45:58):
real victory over CBS. The reason I bring this up
is I think it's funny that they tricked their label
into letting them make a longer album and sell for cheaper,
because I think that's awesome and also that the ninth
song that was added to the single, which was the
final song recorded for the album, actually turned into the
album's biggest hit, which is kind of serendipitous. I suppose

(46:23):
the song, written by Mick Jones, became one of the
band's most beloved songs, and I believe it was their
biggest hit in the US at the time. I'm not
sure if it was eclipsed by Rock the Chasmo later.

Speaker 8 (46:34):
I assume or should.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
Or should I say, should I go?

Speaker 7 (46:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (46:39):
It was written so late in production of the album
that the artwork for the album had already been created,
so it is actually not listed on the record sleeve
and its original post. There you go. Despite that, the
band released the song as a single, which is to
a conversation we'll get to about album construction. Very weird

(46:59):
that the nineteenth song on a record is released as
the single became the biggest hit in the US at
the time, as I said, peaking at number twenty three
on the Hot one hundred list. And that song is
of course train in Vain man, Just like what a

(48:41):
song that sounds so good? That song is so good.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
It's just very fun to.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
What kind of what you were saying earlier seven about
like the breadth of music on this album, like it's
I think it's somewhat fitting that the last track and
the biggest hit is just like a straight up pop tune.

Speaker 8 (48:57):
Yeah, I wrote in the consequence sound thing, I wrote
basically like it's like enduring proof that a punk band
can embrace melody without the fear of losing any credibility.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
That is, yes, you don't, you don't lose points for
the song being good.

Speaker 8 (49:13):
Yeah, that's the thing. If it like if it bangs,
it bangs, you know, And I just like I that
again in the same way that they sort of are
thinking about dub and you know that sort of like
music from from the Caribbean diaspora that that would have
been in London at the time, they are also thinking

(49:35):
about pop music and pop songs and just like that's
a pop hit, that's an undeniable hit. So it's like
when you like, I'm sure they were standing around grinning
like morons, and CBS was probably fine because they made
a bunch of money for them too. They probably got
to sell a seven inch. I didn't know. I didn't
know that that's how this ended up being a double record.

(49:55):
I'm learning all kinds of stuff about this record that
I purport to love, and it's just being there like
a secret track is awesome.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
I found it very confusing when I was younger I
first started listening to it. Then it wasn't listed.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
I might yeah, all right, So obviously that that song
and this album have a huge injuring legacy. We're going
to talk about how it was received, and obviously I
mean the dozens and dozens of bands we like that
we're influenced by it after this, all right, Jake, So

(50:43):
I mean, obviously, like you said, we could go song
by song and do a lot of time on each one.
I think the other big thing to discuss with this
album is maybe one of the most iconic pieces of
album art ever done it And maybe that's a retrospective thing,
but what a cover.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
Yeah, it's iconic and it's legendary. But also I think
true to everything that the clash were, it was almost
entirely an accident that happened. Obviously. The font is play
on Elvis Presley's debut album. The photo on the cover
of Paul Simonon smashing his bass guitar was taken at

(51:22):
a show at New York's Palladium on September twentieth, nineteen
seventy nine, although for years it was thought that it
was actually taken on the twenty first. That doesn't matter,
but it's a kind of weird shit that rock historians
obsess over. Simonon said in an interview with Fender in
twenty eleven that he smashed his bass in frustration when
the bouncers at the show wouldn't allow the fans to
stand up in their seats during the concert, saying I

(51:45):
was taking it out on the bass guitar because there
wasn't anything wrong with it. Penny Smith, who was photographing
the band on the road, originally didn't want to use
the photo because she felt it was too out of focus,
but Strummer and the art director argued for its inclusion
and as the cover, and then in two thousand and
two it was named the best rock and roll photo
of all time by Q magazine. And you better believe

(52:07):
I had a poster of it on my wall when
I was a teen and in university. So to your point, though, Blake,
it is like, along with this album being such an
album of stature, it is an album cover of stature
that's just recognized even if you don't know anything about
the band or the album.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yeah, and it sure is an album of stature, Jake,
you want to run us through quick? I mean everyone
knows that this is one of the best and most
important albums of all time. But do you want to
run us through that?

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Yeah? Super Quick I was released on December fourteenth, nineteen
seventy nine in the UK and in January nineteen eighty
in the United States, making it sit in this weird
era in retrospectives of is it the best album of
the seventies or the eighties? Which is kind of fun.
Sold approximately two million copies upon release, peaking at number

(52:54):
nine in the UK, number two in Sweden, number four
in Norway, and number twenty seven in the United States.
It was certified platinum in the United States in February
of nineteen ninety six. It's been remastered and re released
a billion times. I'm particularly fond of the CD box
set that came with the Vanilla Tapes Demo CD, which
I highly recommend if you have the means to get

(53:16):
CDs anymore. Kind Of like you said, measuring the critical acclaim,
this album is basically impossible. In the New York Times
Review upon its release, John Rockwell said that it validated
the acclaim heaped upon the clash up until that point.
It was voted the best album of the year in
the Pas and Jop poll by The Village Voice and
Village Voice critic Robert Christiegau called it the best out

(53:37):
of the year and said it generated an urgency and
a vitality and ambition which overwhelmed the pessimism of its
leftist worldview. It is now, of course, considered to be
one of the greatest albums of all time. It's received
five out of five's from everybody, including All Music, Blender, Q,
rolling Stone, and the Encyclopedia of Popular Music. According to

(53:58):
Acclaimed Music, it is the sixth most highly ranked record
on critics lists of the best albums of all time,
if you want to quantify it. In nineteen ninety nine,
Q called it the fourth greatest British album of all time.
N Emmy called it the sixth best album the seventies.
Well Pitchwork called it the second best album of the seventies.
In two thousand and three, Rolling Stone ranked it as

(54:20):
the eighth greatest album of all time, but dropped it
to sixteenth on its revised list in twenty twenty, and
uh yeah, I don't know what else you can say
about London Calling and its reception. As for the Clash themselves,
they released Sandinista the following year, which I believe is
a triple album sure and only which I don't know

(54:43):
if I know all the songs. I don't know if
I've ever sat down and listened to it front to
back and one sitting, which pushed their sound experimentation even
further into more dub and even into experimenting with early
eighties hip hop, with the opening track of the record
and one of my favorites, the Magnificent Seven, the magnit.

Speaker 10 (55:12):
Ring bring seven a m move yourself to dog again,
go on up in the face brings you back to
this awful place, the gont merchant and your bankers to let's.

Speaker 5 (55:22):
Get up those mops where the man of the crazy
chief once.

Speaker 6 (55:26):
Says Soner one says am the fan the BMW turning
out that booble loop. If you aren't fan against you,
but our long can you keep it up to be
hond and solid?

Speaker 10 (55:39):
So cheapen we've bought in Hong Kong up in instead
English Towns and edgem Okay.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
Well.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
They would then release Combat Rock in nineteen eighty two,
which of course featured the aforementioned Should I Stay or
Should I Go and Rock the Kasma and also the
Bastard Child of the Clash discography Cut the Crap, released
in nineteen eighty five, before finally officially breaking up. Mick
Jones would go on to form Big Audio Dynamite, another

(57:11):
great band, and would also play with Simonon on Gorilla's
twenty ten record Plastic Beach. Paul Simonon would also play
with The Good, the Bad and the Queen intermittently over
the last little bit. Joe Strummer would form The Mescaleros
eventually after kicking around with various other groups. I absolutely
want to do a Mescalero's episode one day because those

(57:31):
three records fucking rule. And then he of course tragically
passed away in two thousand and two, so that is.

Speaker 8 (57:38):
That those Mescalaro's records are still so good.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Yeah, all three of them, just like so different, so varied,
so interesting. It's there's a yeah, they're they're so good.
I love those albums a lot with a band, what
a run truly and like so quick and then it
was done.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
I just want to go back to take it back,
Steve too, just to bookend this podcast with the essay
you wrote on this album for the fortieth anniversary of it,
and you know, like like we talked about at the
time and I kind of went through an edit with
you and you know, got your feelings on it. I
just like having gone through this episode now and talked
about it a little more like how I guess like

(58:20):
like one of the things you say in that article
is you hear it in every band trying to mix
ska and punk, in bands trying to say something meaningful
in a way that respects where they came from. And
it bands that love yelling pop hooks. The examples you
use Jeff Rosenstock, Titus Centronicus, and Pop respectively, And I
just like, I think we owe this album a minute
to just explore the influence that it has. And obviously,

(58:41):
like you can go everywhere right like Bad Religion, Rancid,
Beastie Boys, Green Day, and then from those bands you
can trace everything else.

Speaker 6 (58:48):
You know.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
I know your boy Finn Wolfheart of Calpernia is a
big is a big clash guy. Alex Lahy the whole Sadi, like, like,
no one, no one making good music hasn't listened to
this album taken something from it. But I just wanted
to kind of open the floor back to you to
to speak about that personally and how especially going back
and talking about this album, how you see it in

(59:08):
your own personal music journey as a musician and as
someone who you know in addition to pop. I don't
know how much people know this, like you really push
yourself artistically with like the stuff that you work on
on your own as well.

Speaker 8 (59:20):
Yeah, I mean I think I guess the big thing
is is sort of you know a I mean, there's
some connection I speak about it than the essay two,
but of kind of how my engaging with the physical
like vinyl copy of London Calling is kind of I'm

(59:41):
so glad that it happened in a record store and
that I was kind of of the age that I
was getting into kind of record buying as a kid,
to you know, to see the ring wear on the
jacket and to be able to actually kind of see
what liner notes are and like how this layout and
this like reverential thing, you know. And then I saw
that this record for the first time, it's like whoa,

(01:00:02):
oh geez. This idea that that like of like restlessness
from a kind of creative standpoint, I think is like
a really important one that you know, a Titus Andronicus,
a Jeff Pop I guess too. As having mentioned those guys,
you know, I think everyone is trying to kind of

(01:00:24):
do more and refine things and try and figure out
new ways to continue saying things and working. And I
think when you hear the class and you hear that evolution,
I mean, I think Sandinista was a record that took
me a long time because I didn't it didn't sound
like London calling. But then it's like London calling doesn't

(01:00:45):
sound like give them enough rope. It's as important to
kind of deal with that with like the understanding that
sometimes what you're doing is if you really love an artist,
you're going on a journey with them, and you don't
know where that journey is going to take you necessarily,
but you sort of have to. You have to kind
of put your trust in them. And I think this

(01:01:05):
is something that maybe not to sound away, but like
we as a as like a streaming heavy economy and
as a streaming heavy consumers of music, that journey is
not as front and center as a consumer of music

(01:01:27):
and possibly as a creator of music too, But I
think specifically as a listener, you are not as kind
of beholden to the journey as you as you might
have been when you could go and only buy one
or two records every once in a while, you know,
or or when you could go when you could go

(01:01:48):
to HMB and only buy a couple of CDs with
your allowance money to kind of put it where I
was at. And I think when you think about it
in terms of that as like a as like a
journey and kind of reacting to a lot of the
things you know that we were kind of talking about
that the Clash seem to have been doing. I think
it's the kind of thing where like a lot of
these like wildly different esthetic kind of unifiers through each

(01:02:12):
record make a lot more sense when you when you like,
these are like natural people who don't want to do
the same thing all the time. They don't want to,
you know, they don't want White Riot to sound like
White Riot the lead single off of a record when
they've already made three or four records. They want it
to be something different. You know, it's very clear they
don't give a shit about their record company, which is

(01:02:33):
why you can put out a triple LP. It's awesome.
But like you know, I think that's the kind of
thing that like really becomes sort of more important. Is
like you're as willing to kind of take the journey
with an artist who is going to follow some instincts
and make mistakes and things are going to be sloppy
and that's okay, that's part of the journey, and that's

(01:02:55):
you engaging with it is kind of is the ride.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
I think that's what really interesting way to phrase it too,
because like I know, when I was first really getting
into the Clash, like a lot of my like I
think a lot of people are, it's a lot of
my music listening was going to and from school on
the subway, and the album of the Clashes that I
actually listened to the most, I think for the first
couple of years I was getting into them was actually

(01:03:20):
the Essential Clash. The greatest hits were not the greatest
hits like a compilation CD, because it distilled sort of
all exactly what you were just talking about and all
that journey and all that history into a package that
I could kind of listen to in you know, ninety
one hundred minutes, and like I remember thinking they must
have had like twelve albums just because of the shift

(01:03:44):
in sound, and then discovering there's only five, say for
the one good song and cut the crap. I do
agree with you that, like the there is something to
both the band's journey and also the journey of like
young music seekers, like if not been hunting, then at
least the way we had to sort of discover things

(01:04:06):
as we went as well, and how there are bands
like this for everybody who was of a certain mind
about music when they were younger, where it was like
just like gobble up all the information you can and
all the all the stories and all the music you can.
And I think that they're just I'm honestly speaking about
them because they were my band like that. But I

(01:04:28):
do think you're right that there is something lost in
not just because of the death of the records of
like the mass market record store, but because that's just
a like that is just a concept that would be
foreign to people now, I think, which is you know,
positives and negatives.

Speaker 8 (01:04:48):
I suppose, yeah, you know, it's just something I try
and keep that in mind now when I'm listening to records,
even when I don't like them. You know, I think,
I think that that kind of journey idea is one
that like the For instance, it makes the Arcade Fire
make a lot more sense to me, now.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Right, Yeah, that's fair. That's actually a really good way
to think about them.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
All Right, we are we're running more than a little long,
But that's fine because this is the most important album.
We are at the point though, where we should. I
think the far more interesting than ranking Clash albums is
picking a top three or so of songs off of
this album. I went five deep just because there are
so many songs on here, I said earlier, Lost in

(01:05:31):
the Supermarket is my favorite one. I think after that,
in some order, I'd go Death or Glory, Brand New
Cadillac Lover's Rock, Guns of Brixton. You know, I know
you played Guns of Brixton and Death or Glory and
Lost in the Supermarket throughout this, so I think we're
fairly on the same page. But Steve sounded like a
guy who needs a minute to think about this. So, Jake,
why don't you, why don't you go ahead? Next?

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
My favorite song this record, as I said before, is
death or Glory. I've lost in the supermarket second. That's
where it gets tough. Spanish is way up there for me.
Coca Cola is actually way up there. I fucking love
that song, such a perfect like quick, quick, little ditty.
I also like the card cheat It is impossible, But

(01:06:12):
Death or Glory, Lost Supermarket Spanish Bombs I think are
my I think I think are my top three, but
it would if you ask me tomorrow, I'm sure i'd
have a different answer.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Oh boy, Yeah, well we won't do that. We're only
doing this album once. Yeah, okay, Steve, what about you, man?
I don't know that I can rank them, but I'll
give you sure, just give us a three or five? Five.

Speaker 8 (01:06:35):
Yeah, Lost in the Supermarket I think the title track,
London Calling has to be there. I think Hateful is
one that we didn't really talk about. But I really
love that song a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
Oh my god, you.

Speaker 8 (01:06:51):
Could take all of you could take all of side too,
and it would be fine. That could be your five
Spanish Bombs is the right profile. Lost in Supermarket clamp down,
Guns of Brixton. But but yeah, Lost in the Supermarket,
Hateful London calling Spanish bombs. It's like a toss up,
and then for me it's a toss up between like
clamp Down and Train in Vain.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
All right, Yeah, well where we're at in terms of
song on the mixtape, Steve, We're gonna defer to you
for the most part here in terms of what song
you feel best represents your relationship to this album. I
will point out, though, before we select that Loss in
the Supermarket, because there are so many good songs on
this album, it was the only unanimous selection across the
three of our lists, so I might lean that way. However, Steve,

(01:07:34):
you are the guests, so you know, I leave it
to you to suggest that an alternative if you don't
think Lost in the Supermarket is the best fit on
the mixtape.

Speaker 8 (01:07:43):
It's so interesting because it's it's not a Joe Strummer
sung song, and his voice is so synonymous with the clash.
But you know that is that is like a really
kind of important to me though, an interesting kind of
based on based on the conversation that we've had, I
actually think Wrong on Boyo is the tune to put

(01:08:04):
on there because it does kind of I think it
speaks as both a cover and and as a you know,
this kind of connection both to Studio one in Jamaica
and and to stagger Lee into some kind of American
folk and rock tradition and you have Strummer singing. I
think it kind of it kind of encapsulates sort of

(01:08:26):
where the clash we're at and how they were trying
to synthesize all these kind of like loves and all
these sorts of like things that that really influenced them,
like music that they loved and things that they loved.
It kind of feels like like like maybe that's the.

Speaker 3 (01:08:39):
One mynd in your bad over again. Why do you

(01:09:31):
try to cheek exap of people under his feet bus?

Speaker 5 (01:09:36):
You know it is hard to cry, man, you know
it is long tickran man, you that's not.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
It is a ride on my own fuck.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
If you must lie on the seat a tample of
people under your feet. You know it is wrong to
keep crying. Man, You know it is wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
China, try and man.

Speaker 10 (01:10:02):
Do better. Stop It is the wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
Now, I will say encounter to that. It is a cover, right,
So maybe it doesn't snapshot at the best, although there
is like there's a rich irony in us all having
the one song that most poorly represents the album on
our list. So I don't know, Jake, it's it's a
it's your episode, so I'll let you.

Speaker 8 (01:10:52):
Uh, you might have to cast a tiebreaker here. Yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Like Steve's right, is the thing about Wrong Boy and
what it represents and what it means. But Blake, you're
also right that it's a cover. My thoughts on it
is that Steve and his essay called this a perfect record,
and I know I have thrown that turn around many times,
but I think this is an album that it actually
applies to, which doesn't help us because there's nineteen fucking

(01:11:19):
songs on the thing, and they're.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
All, well, they're all going on the mixtape.

Speaker 8 (01:11:23):
Then we're just it's just a link to the record.

Speaker 2 (01:11:26):
No, I think if we're if I'm breaking the tie.
I think Steve's argument for what Wrong and Boil represents.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
All right, there, it's done, it's typed into the it's
typed into the mixtape. Now Wrong Andil is going on.
There's no delete button on here. The spreadsheets, it's all
one take in the spreadsheets. So, Steve, do you have
any other parting shots on this one? Before we let
you get out of here.

Speaker 8 (01:11:53):
No, this is a great record. And if you can
go to your local record store and buy it and
you don't already have it in your collection, you should
have it in your colection. And if you can find
a copy from nineteen seventy nine, you should buy that,
and if not, that's fine too. Please try the Fish