November 25, 2024 • 60 mins
In the latest episode of Columbia House Party, hosts Jake Goldsbie and Blake Murphy are joined by Christina Squiers (@flooezyesq) to discuss Paramore's sophomore album Riot! The album had a major influence not only on one host and our guest but on the makeup and accessibility of the post-blink pop-punk scene as a whole. Find out more about Hayley Williams bucking label pressure to be a top-40 singer as a teen, the role Warped Tour played in Paramore's explosion, how we handle Misery Business in retrospect, and more on this week's podcast.
Sick of hearing all the ads? Subscribe to Soda Premium on Apple Podcasts to get rid of them!Follow @ColumbiaHP on X!
While you're there say hello to @BlakeMurphyODC and @JGoldsbie.If merch is your thing, be sure to check out the store: http://bit.ly/chpmerchOr reach out to the show and say hey: podcast@columbiahouseparty.com
If you enjoyed today’s show, please rate Columbia House Party 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts.
See you next week for another episode of CHP.
Sick of hearing all the ads? Subscribe to Soda Premium on Apple Podcasts to get rid of them!Follow @ColumbiaHP on X!
While you're there say hello to @BlakeMurphyODC and @JGoldsbie.If merch is your thing, be sure to check out the store: http://bit.ly/chpmerchOr reach out to the show and say hey: podcast@columbiahouseparty.com
If you enjoyed today’s show, please rate Columbia House Party 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts.
See you next week for another episode of CHP.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Just talk yourself up and tear yourself down. You've hit
your one wall, now find a way around. Well, what's
the problem. You got a new episode of Columbia House Party, Jake?
What's up man?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Not much?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
How are you doing on this cold not dating ourselves
month day of the year.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, careful, right out of the gate. Jake and I
had a big bonding day today where we got in
an argument with a guy in my mentions about defunding
the police or reimagining police budgets. So that was great,
brought us even closer together. We haven't been able to
go to a concert together in over a years, so
we now just have to fight fascists on Twitter to gain.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Really our fault for engaging in that one, I think.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yes, that's on us. Sorry to no, not sorry, if
you're that guy listening, get out of here. We need
listeners and we need Patreon supporters.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
You sorry to anyone who follows both of us and
had to see those messages on their feed.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
That's okay, this is Columbia House Party. Thank you so
much for listening, coming along and welcome if you're new.
Thank you especially to our Patreon supporters over at Patreon
dot com Slash Columbia House party over in the discord
that comes with your Patreon membership. Go join those people
if you're so inclined. Jake, we have a fun one today.
We talked about, you know, our concert history and us
(01:41):
bonding jokingly. This is one that made if you go
back to Clay's office when we first pitched this, this
was on the whiteboard. This was one of maybe like
six or seven we'll call them whiteboard albums when we
first pitched this show and brainstormed. But we wanted to
wait and make sure we got the right timing and
the right guest. And I think those things have all
(02:02):
lined up now.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, I want to say that outside of like bands
like Blank or like maybe even just Blank, I feel
like that this might have even been the first band
you suggested.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah. I mean, I think we locked in MCR and
follow up boy pretty early too.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
But yeah, but we're in that We're in that that
stature stratosphere though.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Today Jake, we're talking about one of the most influential
pop punk acts of the post Blank boom on the scene,
a band that created a news space for a wider
audience of fans and a wider supply of artists in
the genre for over a decade to come with a
singer who had to push through a lot of industry
and see nonsense to become the major pop punks success
that they were. Today we're talking about the sophomore album
(02:47):
from Paramore Riot.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
No, sir, well, I don't want to be the blame,
not anymore. Your to take a seat, settlings the final.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Score and why.
Speaker 6 (03:15):
So you can say you have.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
Made it hard to dress to.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Go on and what happened all the possibilities?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Well, I was wrong.
Speaker 7 (03:31):
That's what you get when you're nature hiding. That's what
you get when you're nature high wind.
Speaker 8 (03:46):
I can't trust myself holblin.
Speaker 6 (03:51):
To hapness, and that's what you get.
Speaker 8 (03:55):
When you nature homelin.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
That song is called That's what you get and what
you get listeners. Is a wonderful guest. Today, we'd like
to welcome Christina Squire's on Christina, how are you?
Speaker 9 (04:14):
I'm June Wow. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Guys really excited Christina. For anyone who doesn't know, First
of all, you can follow her at Fluzy Esquire on Twitter,
which is a terrific handle. She's also the co host
of the Puck Bunnies podcast a great hockey podcast, especially
if you are like me and don't want to get
bogged down in the You know, basically, what I'm trying
(04:38):
to say without without offending my friends in hockey media,
what I'm trying to say is that Puck Bunnies is
more fun and more accessible for a casual fan. No
disrespect to those other guys.
Speaker 9 (04:49):
You know, Yeah, we don't.
Speaker 6 (04:50):
We don't.
Speaker 9 (04:51):
We try to keep a little bit more surface level
because both of us are pretty shallow.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So yeah, I mean, look, I need to know feel Yeah,
I need to know that Chris Cretor is hot in
case I hadn't seen a game in a while, and
I need to know what to do with my Tony
DiAngelo feelings, and you guys are where I go over that.
But also, like, I don't mean to undersell the analysis side,
because you are like the foremost voice on how teams
(05:18):
should play four forwards and one defenseman more often.
Speaker 9 (05:21):
I know, I really am. I'm proud to take that mantle,
and I'm proud to use any hockey knowledge that I
have for this episode, which I do not think that
I will be able to.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's okay, What's important is that you are an offensive
hockey strategy taste maker and a great music taste haver,
and that's why we brought you on. As mentioned, we
originally viewed this as kind of a pillar episode talk
about Paramore's riot, but we wanted to get the guests
in timing right, and we wanted to make sure that
I would be sufficiently roasted as I bring out my
(05:52):
notebook with Haley's name scribbled all over it, and I figured,
you know, we've had some guests who come on and
roast Jaker myself in the past, but Christina, I feel
like you're the best suited to just, you know, really
shrink me down and then give it to me.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Here.
Speaker 9 (06:08):
I'm sharpening my claws as we speak.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I'm excited for this one. I don't I don't need
to get the brunt of this one this time. This
is nice.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, I mean you don't know. I mean that's Christina
the thumbs up to let you have it too.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
So if there's anything that's very easy to do, it
is make fun of me.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, as that guy on Twitch today. So, Jake, I
don't know if you know this actually, but when you
first pitched me the idea of this podcast, and we
were kind of trying to frame what it would be
and tweak around the edges. Christina was actually someone that
I threw the idea by and like bounced a lot
of ideas off of. So listeners, if you enjoy the podcast,
(06:48):
which if you're still hate listening, you have an issue,
So you probably like this podcast, you have Christina to thank.
She really helped shape this. So Christina, thank you. First
of all. Oh, I'm bowing, and I know that. You
know the the implicit agreement when you you helped me
out with that was that you would eventually get to
(07:08):
do the national episode, but we figured we would wait
until one of the three of us get divorced for
that one.
Speaker 9 (07:15):
You know that's fair. You know I'm working off my
first one, so you know, I guess it's going to
be up to you guys for that.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't even have well,
we won't get into the personal stuff. I'm far from
a divorce.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Lauren has already said on this show that I have
divorced energy.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So no, she said, you have divorced Seth Cohen energy.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
That's a compliment, though it's not it's so not it
might sound like a compliment. She did not mean it
like a compliment. So Christina, we will eventually bring you
on to do the National of course, but Paramore was
another artist you were excited to maybe come on and do.
So I guess to start off, why Paramore for you?
Speaker 9 (07:57):
Well, I think Paramore is just like coming up off
of that Blink one eighty two run of just very
powerful crossover sort of pop punk music that I think
brought a ton of people into the scene. So I
think this is the album. Like, so, I mean to
date myself a little bit. Whenever this album came out,
I was in eighth grade, so it was obviously a
(08:19):
huge entry point for me into the whole genre. You know,
back whenever I was in eighth grade, there wasn't Spotify
or anything like. We had to come to things from
the radio. And I remember Misery Business being on the
radio and being like, Wow, what is the ass? And
so it's just the perfect sort of segue entry point
(08:41):
I think for a whole different kind of music for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And you know this is I'm a little bit older
than you, so when they came around, it was kind
of I was in my peak Warped Tour years and
we're going to talk about Warped Tour and the role
Warped played and Schaer a girl and everything like that
in Paramore's kind of story and the impact that they
had for me. This was kind of odd because I
had not a blockage, but I didn't like a lot
(09:07):
of bands with female singers in high school and even
within the pop punk scene. There were the odd exceptions
like Avril and Evanessence, but Paramore was like the one
band with a female front person that I was really
really into. I would also probably say that Haley was
the first person I was like ever unrequited in love with,
(09:30):
not unrequited, and not the first person I was ever
unrequited in love with, but like never had any chance
of meeting, whereas now the only people I fall in
love with are like online strangers that I'll never actually
meet in person. That was the first of one of
those for me. Maybe there's still hope you never know. Yeah,
this is the that Twitter reply, She's.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Not gonna She's not gonna go out with you, bro,
Haley Williams, come on SHP challenge.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah I don't think so, but maybe so. Paramore have
long been a favorite act of mind and even into
their sound change in Haley solo stuff, which we'll talk
a little bit about at the end. The other summer,
I got to take my baby brother, who has adopted
a lot of my music tastes, to see the After
Laughter tour Paramore with Soccer Mommy at the Amphitheater in Toronto,
(10:16):
which was awesome and one of my favorite recent concert memories. Jake,
you have far fewer attachments to this album than Christina
and I.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I thought going into prepping this episode and really every
conversation you and I have ever had about Paramore, that
they were a band that I didn't listen to, kind
of like you, I was a stupid idiot in high
school who also didn't listen to a lot of female
friend of music. But in retrospect and kind of doing
(10:44):
research and the timing for them, I think I just
missed them because, like I thought, this album came out
in like two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
but if they started then, I was kind of already
in my I'm too cool for pop punk phase at
that point, So I think I just ended up missing
(11:06):
this band entirely and kind of discounting them similarly that
I did to a lot of bands in this kind
of scene other than my Chemical Romance at this age.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So he just walked right by that Pig stage at
Warped tour.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I just didn't just not for me. Yeah,
it wasn't even like it wasn't for me. It was
just like, ugh, this isn't punk because I was a loser.
And then I've heard songs of Theirs over the years
knowing it was them, and also a few that I
(11:41):
realized listening to this this week that I didn't know
was them, and so I caught This is kind of
one of those episodes which we've done a couple of times,
of me coming into an album with it completely fresh ears,
and I was surprised at how much I liked it.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Jake walking past the stage that has Paramore and Jones
Jed saying that's not punk as he goes to watch
the Aquabats, I'm.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Not gonna sit here and take Aquabats slander.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm over at the Academy Is performance.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And as long as no one was at three oh three, I.
Speaker 9 (12:16):
Actually didn't go to a concert until I was until
I was in college, so I was actually not a
Warped Tour at all. So you guys are both still
cooler than I am.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well debatable, that's what counts up. But thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah. I mean maybe going to warp Tour gets you
cool points, but I literally lost the lebray piercing in
the pit at Warped Tour, which is uh, I think
you lose all the points. Your points reset to zero.
That's the bankrupt square of Warped Tour coolness. We're gonna
talk a little bit more about Warped. We're gonna talk
about Paramore's riot after this, all right, So a little
(13:05):
bit of quick background on the band here, Jake, like you,
Haley was a child star. She was, of course, only
at thirteen years old. Worked out the same for us,
I can say so. At thirteen, Hailey's family moved from
Mississippi to Tennessee. She met the Forer brothers at a
supplemental program for homeschooled kids. She took vocal lessons from
(13:28):
Brett Manning, who has worked with Taylor Swift and Poppy
and Miley Cyrus and then Haley, Jeremy Davis and another
friend had a funk cover band on the side, so
all these things kind of blend together and eventually those
different projects merge into what would be Paramour. But not
before Haley was signed by Atlantic as a solo act.
(13:49):
They tried to package her as a pop singer, but
as told by an R Steve Robertson, Haley wanted to
be a rock band to write their own songs and
kind of resisted to move to being top forty. So
in two thousand and four they officially formed a Paramore.
Hayley was sixteen, the Pharaoh Brothers were twelve and fifteen.
Davis was in and out of the bad Yeah, exactly.
(14:11):
It's like, basically like the band would have looked like
Hanson at this point. Yeah, twelve, fifteen, and sixteen, and
then Jeremy Davis, who was a little older, actually left
at one point because he didn't think like he basically
thought the band was too young to be a serious thing,
and then he'd later rejoin and leave again, and rejoin
and leave again a bunch of times, which is kind
of a Columbia house party special on some of these episodes.
(14:33):
So at that point, Atlantic didn't want them on a
major label. Once they you know, once they heard what
the Paramore sound would be, so instead all we know
is falling. Their first album in two thousand and five
was released on Fueled by Ramen, even though they were
signed to Atlantic. In the summer of five, they had
a little bit of a breakthrough with Pressure out as
a single and then their first song that I remember
(14:55):
hearing Emergency, which came out in the fall of five.
Speaker 10 (15:05):
As if we have an emergency, As if we have
an emergency, it's.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
Not fraid that you want side? Why? So are you listen?
Speaker 10 (15:20):
So?
Speaker 6 (15:20):
Are you watching there? It's not hot fraying that you
don't want sid This is an emergency, sir?
Speaker 5 (15:31):
Are you listening?
Speaker 6 (15:33):
Wait? Stay doubt.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
It's really not trouble. No one cares to.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Talk about talk about.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
So s time? Why is that many times when we
ever start?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
All?
Speaker 9 (16:22):
Right?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
So, that terrific song, Emergency was once again performed by
a twelve, fifteen and sixteen year old a twelve year
old on the drums while we had a little tech issue.
We were talking about what we were all doing at
twelve and what we thought was impressive. Christina, do you
want to share again so that the people can hear it?
Speaker 9 (16:39):
Oh? Well, I impressed by myself that I could read
and listen to music at the same time. So it's
a little bit less drumming and a very popular song.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
But Jake, what were you doing at age twelve? You
weren't doing anything much, right.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I was starting a TV show, And my tip for
people entering media at age twelve is don't Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Well, Paramore had their problems over time as well. I
don't know if that was the twelve year old member
or the fifteen year old member. Surely the fifteen year
old was just way more ready for massive success right
out of the gate. Haley at sixteen was, I guess.
I don't know. They kept going along pretty pretty strong,
coming off of pressure and emergency, and just as importantly,
(17:25):
the iconic red couch album cover for that album, which
I don't know. I didn't when I went back and
listened to it in prep for this episode, I didn't know.
All we Know is falling quite as well as I
would have thought, given that that album cover holds a
place in my head. The album cover, by the way,
the Shadow Walking Away is intended to be Jeremy Davis,
(17:46):
who was leaving the band at the time, which is
very cool. Sub tweety Christina, were you were you into
Paramore at all? We know is falling time? Or was
it more when Riot came and was just such a
massive success.
Speaker 8 (17:58):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (17:59):
It was when Riot came out in two thousand and five.
I was like extremely in middle school and sort of
I'm so chicked. Yeah, I sort of still chicks to
the whims of whatever was playing on the radio a
little bit more so. Yeah, I wasn't super into them then, so.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
All right, Well, for people who were a little older,
they did pick up some steam. They did their first
Warped Tour appearance that summer in two thousand and five.
It was their first of five in a row and six. Overall,
the warp Tour scene has a lot of problems looking
back on it, and a lot of things have come
out since, but at the moment, it was a pretty
big deal for Paramore to get that spot. As Jessica
(18:39):
Hopper wrote in her book The First Collection of Criticism
by a Living Female Rock Critic, in an essay titled
Where the Girls Aren't, which was originally posted on Punk
Planet back in two thousand and three, which of course
is pre Paramore, she kind of goes into how this
scene had not just a sexism problem, but a pretty
a sexism problem that it was exacerbated by the lack
(19:01):
of representation. Enter Shier Yevin, who worked the two thousand
and three Warped tour and disliked the lack of female performances,
and she pushed for her own stage, the Sheer Girl Stage.
If you've ever been to a Warped tour, you surely
remember the bright, pink, loud stage of primarily female fronted bands.
Over two hundred female fronted bands ended up playing that
(19:22):
stage over time, including Paramore on this very first tour.
As Shier told Hello Giggles. First of all, some people
said that over the years you could see more women
getting onto other stages, bigger stages, main stages such as Paramore.
We're definitely really proud of being part of that history
and that story. Paramore is a huge runaway success. So
I think when people recognize that, I don't take credit
(19:44):
for their success, but when people come to me and say,
you really made a difference, it makes me feel good
to know that we made an impact. So I guess Christina,
for you, we can reframe this question as more two
thousand and seveny thirteen era Paramore instead of two thousand
and five. But for you, your Paramore fandom, was there
an element of, hey, there's female representation in this scene
(20:06):
and this this type of music isn't just for boys.
Speaker 9 (20:09):
Yeah, you know, I still remember the exact moment whenever
I heard my first Paramore song. It was on a
friend's neopets like website, like you could have like MP
three's basically play on your neopets homepage, and so I
heard Misery Business there and it was just like nothing
that I had ever heard before, and it sounded like
(20:30):
blank one eighty two, but it sounded like there was
a girl singing it. And at that point, you know,
I hadn't really gotten into punky or stuff other than
like you know, sometimes you would hear Ashley Simpson on
the radio and that was sort of the spectrum or
Avril Levine. But it was definitely something that sounded like
(20:51):
it was written by a teenage girl, which I found
very appealing, uh, but also delivered with a sort of
energy that I hadn't heard before. And it was really
exciting to hear a sort of a girls thing like that.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
And that was where a lot of the media attention
coming out of all we know is following intended to
focus on Haley took issue a little bit with places
like Krang focusing on her more than the group. Going
back to you know, when she first signed to Atlantic,
she wanted to be a part of a rock band,
not this solo act. Coming out of this album, there
was a bit of turnover. We could go into a
(21:27):
lot of the turnover of Paramore over the years, we
won't just because it gets kind of messy, and you
know some of the reasons, well, I'll just say Josh
Farrow is no longer in the band, allegedly due to
his views on the LGBTQ community and Haley kind of
ethering him in Twitter posts when it kind of came out,
and she was like, yeah, there's a reason that you know,
(21:49):
some people aren't in the band anymore and I am.
And they've had no success since, which good, good for you.
So the current iteration is Haley, Taylor Yorke, and Zach Farrow.
The iteration for the Riot era was Hailey, both Pharaoh's,
Jeremy Davis, and Taylor Yorke. So a lot of people
(22:09):
contributing at this time as well. Hunter Lamb took over
some of the duties as well on guitar and backing vocals.
So there was just a lot going on with the
band's personnel that will just gloss over. So they are
a pretty strong success off the first album and then
heading into their follow up. They recorded by a lot
of producers. They opted for David Bendeth and a hand
(22:30):
from Dan Cornef. Fuel by Raman Again was going to
release the second album Riot. As Hailey explained to the
title ryot literally means an unbridled outburst of emotions. When
we were writing, it seemed like our thoughts and emotions
were coming out so fast that we couldn't control them.
There was a riot within us. So the album takes
our passion to a new level. Not only does she
(22:51):
explain it like that, you get that cool moment on
every album when the title is mentioned in a song.
We played that's what you get off the top and
it has the lyrics this heart will start a riot
in me. Let's start start. So anytime you can do
that and be like, hey, they said the name of
the movie in the movie is a good moment. On
top of which, before you get into some of the
(23:12):
bigger songs, the once again a pretty iconic album cover
for Riot. Here, Jake, is that something that like, like,
I know you didn't listen to much Paramore, but like
how aware of you of Paramore were you and their
kind of popularity and imprint on the scene.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I was definitely aware they existed, and like I knew
the name and I knew about I guess sort of
threw those press appearances that she wasn't a fan of.
I knew who Hailey Williams was, but that was kind
of it. And it's funny you mentioned like the album
cover that is very recognizable to me, and I actually thought,
(23:53):
as I said earlier, I have the timeline of Paramore
completely backwards. But I knew that you are a big
fan of After Laughter and like some of the later
poppier stuff, and I thought that the Riot cover was
one of those albums. And I didn't realize that the
Riot cover was like the Misery Business album. But like,
I was definitely aware of them. I didn't know any
(24:14):
of their songs, but I knew that they were like
the female pop punk thing. But I think I did,
like unfairly and incorrectly, with not hearing any of their music,
lump them closer to like the Avril.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Thing than the like even blink thing.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Well, you weren't alone in that jake, which we'll talk
about in a little bit. But I'm gonna call bullshit
on you not hearing them because everyone knew misery business,
and any Paramore discussion, especially riot Era Paramore, has to
have a healthy discussion of misbiz. Their most popular, iconic
and more recently controversial song. It was the lead single.
(24:54):
It was award nominated. You know it, this is misery business.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Then the business of misery was taken from the toss
got a body.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
I can now regrest it in like a clock. It's
a matter of what.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Time before we go run known when I thought he
was mine, she.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
Caught him by the car. I waited at him a
line she probably said, free. I told him I canna lie.
He was the only one for me for two weeks
a week.
Speaker 6 (25:27):
Caught a fire.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Just get it out with me. But I wear the
biggest smile.
Speaker 8 (25:36):
I had a Oh, I got him a warning now.
It was never mind to jen a bri so way
in your mouth because of this so k, Because I
got him.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
A warning now and because of your girl here, he.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
Was not addressed.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
No s.
Speaker 9 (25:59):
No, just while that clip was playing, my head was
just bobbing, like like you just can't, you can't not
like jam to that song.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, of course. And then you also get the like
if we could do the slow motion movie camera inside
your brain, where like every synapse is firing, getting the
lyrics ready.
Speaker 9 (26:24):
Exactly exactly, like ready to go.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah. So I guess the first thing that we have
to talk about about that song is that it rules.
It's just a really good song, and obviously it was
again the lead single their most popular single, Christine, I
would imagine that was kind of your introduction to Paramore.
Speaker 9 (26:40):
Oh yeah, this was the song I heard on neopets
and I was just like, I gotta hear more of this.
Did not think about the lyrics at all.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, so let's talk about that because I think it
does need to be unpacked a little bit. And we
do this with some of the bands that we've talked
about in the way some of the lyrics that don't
hold up, especially in the pop punkin emo scene, with
some of the underlying misogyny going on. This song, Misery
Business is a song about dealing with unrequited love as
a teen and seeing someone you long for with someone
(27:08):
else and kind of bided your time. It's a pretty
standard story in the genre, but in the case of
misery business, Hailey is directing some what she later felt
was undue anger at the other woman, who has done
nothing wrong. It's just you're the person you have a
crush on's girlfriend. Hailey even uses the word hohor to
describe the other woman. Hailey was iffy about this as
(27:31):
far back as when they were writing the song her
producer David Bendeth. She said, this just isn't me, and
then they had it back and forth. Was Bendeth explaining
this to Billboard how he kind of had to coax
the line out of her because she did write it,
but she didn't feel right singing it now. As she
told Track seven in twenty seventeen, as someone who who
(27:52):
believes themselves to be a feminist with the benefit of
adulthood and perspective, she said, it literally came from a
page in my diary. I couldn't have known at the
time was that I was feeding into a lie that
I bought into, just like so many other teenagers and
many adults before me. The whole I'm not like other
girls thing, this cool girl religion? What even is that?
Who are the gatekeepers of cool? Anyway? Little did she
(28:15):
know it was Jake. Are they all men? Are they
women that we've put up on top of an unreachable pedestal.
The problem with the lyrics is not that I had
an issue with someone I went to school with. That's
just high school and friendships and breakups. It's the way
I tried to call her out using words that didn't
belong in the conversation. It's the fact that the story
was set up inside the context of a competition that
(28:36):
didn't exist over some fantasy romance. So a little bit
unpacked there. But Christina, first, I guess just as an
adult woman who loved that song, do you have any
thoughts on kind of how the lyrics feel now or
Haley's own changing perspective on it?
Speaker 9 (28:51):
Well, you know, like as an adult, I can still
say the song banks, you know what I mean. I
know she doesn't play it anymore. I do. It's great,
But you know, I'm reading these lyrics as an adult,
and I'm just thinking about like an eighth grade version
of myself reading these and internalizing this, and especially with
all the other music that was happening at the time.
(29:13):
You know, what's unique about this song is that she's
singing the same sort of misogyny that a lot of
the other boy bands at the time were also peddling.
So she was really trying to, you know, have it
both ways. And so that's why I find her sort
of heel turn in later years about the song so empowering,
because I think she was obviously not comfortable with the
(29:36):
song when it came out, but now she seems to
be in a place where she can say, like, this
was obviously something very personal and I didn't mean for
it to reflect a larger culture, which it unfortunately exists in.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, I think that. I think that makes sense, and
you know, it's not something that I think none of
us as like teens or early twenties even you know,
this has come up a bunch when we talk about
Dashboard Professional or taking back Sunday or whoever. You don't
you're not really like conscious of how that can kind
of like that perspective gets normalized, right, And you know,
I do think the misogyny layer here is important because
(30:10):
I don't think there are very many instances where like
you have like dudes projecting this kind of anger and
hate at other dudes necessarily if anything like that would
be directed at the woman in the kind of love
triangle or whatever. So, as you mentioned, Christina, they do
not perform this anymore. It used to be a live
(30:30):
show staple. They would always bring a random fan up
on stage to sing misery Business, including my pal from
NBA Twitter, Marco Romo, who got to do it once
posted the video of it, which seemed like just the
most fun in the world, but they decided to no
longer perform it live and again. As Haley wrote on
her tumbler in twenty fifteen, which I didn't realize people
still used in twenty fifteen, ms biz is not a
(30:52):
set of lyrics that I relate to as a twenty
six year old woman. I haven't related to it in
a very long time. Jake, we've talked before about bands
that go away from songs that have questionable lyrics, like
when Hanif was on and we talked about the Descendants
and some of the songs they don't play anymore. Do
you have any thoughts at all on misbiz and their
decision to kind of axe it from the rotation altogether
(31:14):
versus tweaking it versus just you know, continuing to play
it with the benefit of a new perspective. Where do
you land on that?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yeah, I think a couple things. I think one, if
the band or artists themselves is uncomfortable with a song
that they wrote whatever it is now fifteen years ago,
then it is entirely their choice whether to play it
or not. I also think, like, good for Hayley Williams
for sort of reflecting on this and recognizing it, especially
in a scene where like I feel like a lot
(31:43):
of the not every band and but like a lot
I'm thinking specifically of Blank way too right now, but
they're not the only band like this, But I think,
like they're so big, and they're big, massive songs that
sort of have rics that could be construed as misogynistic
or are just directly misogynistic kind of don't belong to
(32:05):
them anymore because they're so big, they're just like accepted it.
And I'm not saying this is a good thing, but
like you and I went to see Blink what four
years ago now, and like everyone is like listening to
forty four year old Matt Skiba singing I need a
girl that I can train, and.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
It's like.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
We there's this sort of I want to say, like
gap now that like we know or we think, I guess,
we don't know that. Like Skeeba is not I was,
he didn't write it, but like even Tom DeLong is
not like thinking that right now, and whether they he
was for real or I was tongue in cheek at.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
The time is written.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
I have no idea, but I do think that male
artists have been able to sort of create that sort
of cognitive distance about it and now they don't have
to think about it, and no one has to think
about it because we've all just like accepted it's like
a funny blink song from Enema or whatever. And then
like you have people like Kayley Williams who are really
like reflecting and putting really like interesting thoughts and reevaluations
(33:14):
on her own career and her own work. And I
think it's so much more impactful and interesting from like
a personal and an artistic perspective to be able to
look at your most popular song and just be like, nah,
like this isn't me anymore. And I think that's great.
And I think that that kind of recognition is important
(33:36):
in the pop punk scene, especially the pop punk scene
of like two thousand and seven, two thousand and five.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I think that's what I said, Jake, and I would
just push back on the one thing that Tom DeLong
might not feel that way about certain lyrics, but aliens exist.
He will stand by that's that's the truth. He was
right about that one. So yes, of course, all right,
let's lighten things up a little bit as we continue
on on Ryo. Here there is an underlying question in
(34:03):
Misery Business worth exploring on a on a more personal side,
and it kind of ties into the album's second single
and easily the biggest tune on side B of the album. Uh,
And that question is kind of what is the actual
protocol for shooting your unrequited love shot or up to
this point, unrequited shot?
Speaker 8 (34:21):
You know?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
In Misery Business she quote waited eight long months, But okay,
how long do you wait after the breakup to be
respectful but not missed the opportunity? Because if you hold
on to that for too long, it can get a
little dark, as it does on Crush Crush Crush.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
Yeah sick, miss, let me keep business.
Speaker 8 (34:53):
Till her your max out.
Speaker 10 (34:55):
The truth there lies little splies take over your mouth,
swiveled out the truth with the lies, you little spies.
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Nothing compare to not anything.
Speaker 10 (35:20):
Let's just not touss county nd I never happen and
something that you can't rest every one?
Speaker 6 (35:29):
Then yes I can't.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Baby.
Speaker 8 (35:40):
Don't you know that.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
I need something to sing about about that Bob?
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Don't you know?
Speaker 6 (35:48):
Baby?
Speaker 8 (35:48):
Where's I need something to say about rock the Boa?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Don't you know?
Speaker 8 (35:55):
Baby wors love?
Speaker 6 (35:57):
Now?
Speaker 8 (35:57):
Give me something to think? But nothing?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Okay, Christina, that was one of the songs that I
know you wanted to talk about it and one of
your favorites on the album. Before we dive into that song,
do you have a take on how long you wait
before you know it? Say the misery, business situation and
unrequited love guy and girl break up? How long do
you wait before making the move there?
Speaker 9 (36:44):
Well, it depends on how much coffee I've had that
day or how much alcohol I've had that night. So honestly,
I can't give you a straight answer there. Probably not
eight months, though I probably shoot my shot a little sooner.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Than that, I think you'd have to be they'd be
back off the market, sure, exactly. Okay, more to crush
Crush Crush. Why is that a favorite of yours? Why
did you want to talk about that song?
Speaker 9 (37:08):
Well, it's really funny. Earlier you mentioned in passing the
band Evanescence, and I loved the band Evanescence, obviously because
I was a weird little child and did not have
a lot of friends, and so I remember when I
heard this song for the first time, it reminded me
a lot of like that darker sort of like you know,
it starts out with the heartbeat, and like it's a
(37:31):
pretty dark song, especially to be one of their singles,
you know, Like you said, it's about what happens whenever
you bottle up those feelings, and I really related to
bottling up a lot of feelings probably for some very
like smooth Hairless Boy who had not gone through puberty yet.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Smooth hairless Boy. There you go.
Speaker 9 (37:52):
So I think it just hit this like very fun,
emotional tenor, and it's just a great song. It's just bangs.
It's really it's almost hard to talk about songs from
this album just because there's so much of emotion from
youth tied up in it that like all I can
say is like, yeah, that song's really good. And I
can't get very technical about it.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
That's okay though, That's that's the whole point of the podcast.
The only time we ever get technical is when Steve's
on Oh God, and Steve wants to talk about like
chord progressions and arrangements and stuff. Steve, Yeah, yeah, And
I just want to shit post Steve on a podcast. Basically,
I lied by the way. Crush Crush Crush was not
the second single. It was a third single off the album.
(38:35):
Hallelujah was the second, and That's what You Get was
the fourth. So, Jake, I want to get your take
on the album structure here. It's something we talk about
a fair amount on this podcast. This is a pretty
side a heavy album to me, Crush Crush Crush, like
I kind of teed it up there is by far
the biggest tune to me on side B. And I
(38:56):
would argue five of the best six or seven songs
on the album are the first five, and the first
four are probably you know, four of their best known songs.
So what do you what do you think of that
in general? And crush Crush Crushes placed on the album
as you went back and listen to it for the
first time, because it does kind of you know, those
first four songs kick your ass and then Crush Crush
(39:17):
Crush is kind of not a standalone on the back half,
but it changes up the tone of the second half.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, I think it's necessary. I guess is the word.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
I agree with you that I do feel like the
album kind of loses team in the second half, especially
after such a strong first half. But I like where
Crush Crush Crush is because it kind of has like
there's a bit of a lull after Misery Business, I
was like okay, and then Crushushrussing, I was like, Okay,
now I'm back in it. So I think it's well
placed to sort of like bring you back into like
this album is actually really fun.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, for sure. And you know, i'd argue that it uh,
I guess it tonally slows down after Misbizz, but when
it rains is a great track. Any album structure talk
about Riot, of course needs to mention that while it
wasn't a single for a pessimist, I'm Pretty Optimistic is
a Tier one album opener. This is for a pessimist,
(40:08):
I'm pretty optimistic.
Speaker 11 (40:28):
Just save yourself up and tell yourself you pretty one role.
Speaker 6 (40:40):
Now find a way you came.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
So what did you think I would say you can't
run away?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
That you can't run way?
Speaker 10 (41:01):
So what did you think I would say, you can't
move away?
Speaker 5 (41:04):
You can't move away?
Speaker 8 (41:05):
You would is?
Speaker 6 (41:07):
I got a lotta just set up this, set up.
Speaker 8 (41:12):
A lot and just set.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
I got my baby set by, say little, I got.
Speaker 8 (41:26):
By, just set address.
Speaker 6 (41:30):
Setting up, step up.
Speaker 8 (41:35):
I let my Fridaby step.
Speaker 6 (41:38):
By stay.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Just Christina very high rank in the album opener's.
Speaker 9 (41:55):
Pantheon, right, Oh absolutely. It just starts with this huge
wall of sound. And I actually think, like all of
these songs hold hold up to me on a nostalgia basis,
but I think this one holds up the most. Is
like you could hear this on the radio now. It's
super punk, especially for Paramore, you know, like to me,
this is a super punky song. And I think it's
(42:16):
a super brave opening choice and I think it really
paid off.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, I think it's great. Jake. What about you? That's uh?
I know you're you. You care deeply about album closers.
Speaker 9 (42:28):
Dan.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
I don't want to speak for you for born for this,
but i'd imagine you you came away more impressed with
the opener than the closer.
Speaker 9 (42:33):
Here.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yeah, well, like as someone who hadn't really listened to
this album before and like didn't really know what to expect,
I kind of went in being like the Misery Business
is the fireworks Factory, and I was like, Okay, let's
get to misery business.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
And then this came on.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
I was like, what, Like, this wasn't It wasn't at
all what I was expecting it to sound like, and
like this is, I would say, by far, my favorite
song on the album. I couldn't believe how good this
song is.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, it rules. It is posted on my Instagram story
the other day and I try not to do that
and tip off what albums we might be going back to,
but it's just like, it's such a good song. And
as I was prepping for this episode, every time I
went for a walk, instead of starting where I had
last left off in the album, I just started from
the top every time again because that song so song
(43:22):
kicks ass. It's also a great like lyrically, the whole
putting your faith in someone and they blow it theme
is just like very relatable and I think sets A.
I mean not that if you're going back to a
two thousand and seven Paramore album. You don't need to
be transported into the what romance was like in your
teens in early twenties. Here, you're probably already there, but
(43:42):
if you needed it, that kind of gets you there.
And I also just think that, like the song title
for a pessimist, I'm Pretty optimistic is kind of like
an mo for people who have I'll cast broadly like
our taste in music, where there's this natural kind of
dourness to soaking in the sadness with the music. But
(44:05):
the reason that you feel so deeply about it, or
that you fight through it, or that you feel deeply
just as a person in general, is that that tinge
of optimism persists. And I think that that song and
where the album goes from there holds that nicely, because
there is a lot of why did I put myself
through this on the album, but also a lot of
(44:26):
oh that's why on the album, which surely none of
us can speak to. So one final kind of ancillary
chat around Riot and Paramore that we wanted to touch
on is and to me, this is kind of looped
into Warped tour because of you know, I had a
specific set of friends that I went to Warp tour with,
and those weren't the same as my regular friends who
(44:46):
listen to a different kind of music. And you know,
I would kind of sometimes feel at this time that
like I didn't quite belong to any one group because
I was, you know, doing sports over here with this group,
and I have my punkin emo friends over here. And
I know Christina that that's something that you dealt with
around this time too, with the whole you know, for me,
it was jocks against drama kids against emo and punk
(45:10):
kids and kind of being split between those, and for
you it was more of kind of the punk versus
prep thing at the time.
Speaker 9 (45:16):
Oh definitely. I mean I get I talked about this
a little bit earlier, but this was before spot it By,
so you were only really finding music through either your
friends or through the radio. So it mattered so much
who you were what kind of music that you were
going to discover. And you know, I think that it's
sort of interesting whenever you whenever you think about Jake
(45:37):
listening to this now and sort of transporting back into
these like sort of clicky things that you never knew about.
Like I wonder how much that sort of teenage interpretation
sort of affects your listening to this.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Album for sure. And Jake, I guess you know, part
of it would have been you didn't have a lot
of people in your circle listening to this at the time, right, No, No,
whereas now I make you listen to stuff from this
era and this genre all the time.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, and a lot of it I really like.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
But yeah, I definitely I think all of like the
sort of poppy, punky emo jace stuff that I was
into in high school, save for like a couple maybe
more local acts, I mostly went to go to the
shows alone. And I don't mean that in like a
sad like I was alone kind of why, Like it
was awesome. I grew up in Toronto, so I got
(46:24):
to see everybody all the time, but it was I
didn't really find my like pop punk crowd till my twenties.
Speaker 9 (46:32):
And that's the other thing is, you know, I am
from the sticks, Like I am from a very small
town in East Texas, so like I didn't have access
to shows or like going to work too or anything
like that. And so I think that's why Paramore is
such a big band for me. It's just because like
that was sort of like the limit to what you
could discover on your own in a small town at
(46:53):
the time. So there's so much of an emotional connection
because like from Paramore, I got to fly Leaf and
like a ton of like other really cool bands like that.
So but I wouldn't have ever even listened to Paramore
at all if I didn't have like at least one
punk friend, Like, you know, all the preppy girls would
never listen to anything like this. So it's it's interesting
how that sort of stradiates, you know, between friend groups.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Which is funny to hear from the girl's perspective, because
I had a friend who dated lots of those preppy girls,
and he would borrow from my taste in music to
like impress them and like, hey, you might like this song.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
So all it's all just a big circle and a
big ecosystem. We're gonna talk a little bit more, Christina,
You're not alone in Paramore having been kind of a
gateway for you and shaping some of your tastes. We're
gonna talk about how they did that more for the
genre as a whole after this. Okay, So Riot, as
(48:01):
Jake kind of mentioned earlier, and as we as we
had talked about, they got lumped in a little bit
Paramore did with Avri Levine and Kelly Clarkson. Some critics
seem to understand it, or at least concede that it
was quote very good power pop. Overall, it received mixed
to positive reviews. It's looked that much more favorably in retrospect.
Of course. It's number ten Modern Classic on Rock Sound.
(48:24):
They also have it as the number sixteen most essential
pop punk album. They were on a bunch of other
backward looking lists like that, and despite the mixed reviews,
it did well commercially. It peaked at number fifteen on
the Billboard chart. It eventually went double platinum. They did
Warp Tour again, and then because I haven't mentioned this
band in three or four episodes, they co headlined a
(48:44):
tour with the Starting Line.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Jake, Wow, that's a big show for you in retro
it's a big.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Show for me. We're gonna get the starting liner. Even
like re releasing sessions of their old music lately, We're
going to get there.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Oh my god. Oh I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Not a Starting Line fan.
Speaker 9 (48:59):
Christ No, I don't have enough like hy chromosomes.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
So yeah, fair, but you know you don't. I guess
you don't have this. Maybe I just the quietly thinking
I'm smarter than everyone and I'm so clever lyricism is
you know, what's what's really missing from this podcast is
lyrics of dudes who thought they were more clever than
everyone else.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Just wait till December spart two.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Oh god, oh my god, the Literary Degree albums all right.
So Paramore continued on. They did brand new Wise in
two thousand and nine, and then they released a self
titled in twenty thirteen after a bit of a long
break there. Paramore. The self titled in twenty thirteen was
a very big we can still do pop punk bangers
(49:46):
reminder album, highlighted by Christina one of your favorites. This
song still into.
Speaker 11 (49:52):
You can.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Get that.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
A what have told you?
Speaker 6 (50:01):
Make you feel like?
Speaker 5 (50:02):
It's made you feel better?
Speaker 4 (50:07):
It's not a rock enough for it's alone you shut up,
but but nothing listen to but Canna can't.
Speaker 6 (50:17):
No you would.
Speaker 5 (50:20):
Because the turn this time, I'm still I should be
over on the butt.
Speaker 8 (50:31):
Proben a baby even on the worst night. Yes, my god,
this is star. It's not really yet this time.
Speaker 6 (50:51):
I still.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
Cause Jake, that was part of your listening homework, did you?
Speaker 9 (51:04):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (51:04):
How do you? How do you find that song versus
the songs on Riot?
Speaker 3 (51:08):
So my listening homework for those who aren't in me
and Blake's DMS was this song and hard Times off
after Laughter. And I didn't love this one, I'll admit,
but I am very intrigued by Hard Times and I'm
going to listen to that album this week because I
think that song's dope.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Gotta say, as much as I've enjoyed having Christina on
and as much as I appreciate her in general, the
picking a self titled song as the post Riot song
instead of an after Laughter one was very difficult for me.
But Christina, you love still into You?
Speaker 9 (51:42):
Yeah, It's okay, isn't it like their most popular song ever?
So like, I am not alone here, You're not.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
I just I really like after Laughter, but.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
You wanted Nolake has been talking to me about After
Laughter for like four years.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
That's why I thought it was the same cover as Riot,
because I was like, oh, it must be that one.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
No. Unfortunately, you know, we defer to to guests here,
Like I said, at my core, I'm a simp, Christina,
And do you do you want to do you want
to explain the reasoning for still into you that you
used in the in the email to me, or do
you want to frame it differently.
Speaker 9 (52:19):
I don't remember what I said in the email because
I don't remember anything that I say after I say it.
But number one, it's just a really good song. It
starts out with that same wall of sound that they
like to do, and I think it really shows sort
of their fun evolusion to a little bit more of
a poppy sound, like you can hear the production on it.
I don't know. She sounds like she's having a lot
(52:40):
of fun in it, and I really like, this is
gonna sound stupid, but I really like the message. I
think it's a sweet little song. I listened to it
a lot when I work out. I think that's why
I have so many positive associations with it. But I
have to say I have actually never listened to After Laughter,
and now I feel like I have to go listen
to After Laughter.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
You want to talk about a killer workout album, It's
it's like all of the Hailey stuff that you like
from Paramore, but to like more up tempo synthpop. It's
it's a great workout Autre.
Speaker 9 (53:12):
Now I know what I'm doing after this podcast, there
you go.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
Also, they also play Still Into You really early in
the set list, and I actually think the last time
I saw them, they play Grudges as an opener, but
I actually think Still Into You would be just an
awesome album opener. And to kind of bookend this post
riot discussion, they at least when they were touring After Laughter,
they closed with hard Times, so can't go wrong either way,
(53:36):
Still Into You and hard if you're If you're one
of the first songs in the set and you're the closer,
you're doing pretty well right. So in addition to After Laughter,
Haley has continued on to do some solo work. She's
really Pedals for Armor and Flowers for Vass. As a
solo act, moody Er definitely a different sound. I'm into them,
I dig them, but if those aren't for you. She
(53:57):
has also said that Paramore will have a six album
sometime in the near future, and she is teased that
it is a return to their pop punk roots. Christina,
where is our expectation level for twenty twenty one? Paramore
back to the self titled sound instead of the after
Laughter sound.
Speaker 9 (54:16):
Well, I know that we're not supposed to have expectations
of anyone right now because it's a pandemic, but she
has nothing else to do besides make a banger album
for us, so my expectations are pretty fucking high.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Yeah. Look, I'm not purchasing good Die Young hair care
products in less that album rips and then you've got
my purchase for the album and all the hair dye
to go back to my pop punk days. Haley.
Speaker 9 (54:39):
I was sort of surprised that she is coming out
with another album because I really thought she had pivoted
totally to doing the hair dye stuff, because that's like
really her brand.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Now.
Speaker 9 (54:49):
She's actually super funny on TikTok as well. Oh interest, Yeah,
you guys.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Check it out and have that. Because I'm an old dude.
Speaker 9 (54:55):
Well get with it. If Hailey Williams can do, we
can do it.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yes, that's true age appropriate as I was worried like
with the when I went into this, I forgot how
old Haley was, and I was like, is it gonna
be weird that I say that? She was like the
first person I had a huge, huge, crush on and
then no, she's age appropriate for me. So that's good
to know, Glad, I double check though. Okay, so yeah,
(55:21):
So in addition to obviously having this big influence on
people like us Christina with our music tastes and kind
of you know what, it opened up in the genre.
You know, Haley herself had a pretty big impact on
other female singers and female punk artists that came through.
Speaker 4 (55:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Again, this goes back to the earlier conversation about Warped
tours lack of inclusivity and representation. Originally, Katie Perry is
someone who's credited Hailey Williams as one of the strong
leaders kind of paving the way for women in the scene.
And then you hear people like Snail Mail, Grimes, Soccer Mommy,
people across a lot of different genre as well point
(56:01):
to Haley, you know, as far as like lil Uzi
Vert and Princess Nokia. Like, there's there is a wide
ranging paramour influence here, and none of the three of
us can speak to this, but I've seen plenty of
tweets over time about how Paramore is really really popular
among like non white groups as well people of color
and then obviously the LGBTQ plus community as well, given
(56:25):
Haley's earlier comments. So I'm not sure what it is
exactly about Paramore that that kind of just it pushes
past all like demographic boundaries, But their influence has been
been pretty wide. If you're if you're checking off Grimes,
Soccer Mommy, and lil Uzivert, you've you've had a wide net. Christina,
(56:45):
who are who are some of the other bands that you,
I guess would credit to you know, enjoying Paramour and
that kind of got you into some other bands trickled
down from there. Well, you know, it's.
Speaker 9 (56:56):
Interesting that you talk about sort of you know, who
have inherited the mantle I guess from Paramore because it's
so interesting that like Paramore was a super produced band,
you know what I mean, Like they were signed with
like a big record label, and yet she was still
managed to inspire all of these more diy Like, you know,
(57:17):
bands don't really happen like Paramour anymore. They sort of
have to prove themselves in social media following before they
can get anyone to sign them anyway. So coming off
of Paramore here, I'm looking at Paramore's like Spotify just
to see who I got into from them. So Paramore
was the first sort of pop punk band that I
listened to. From them, I got into Fallout Boy, my
(57:39):
Chemical Romance, just all that stuff. Lyle if I've already
talked about them, and I've obviously sort of my music
tastes have gotten a little bit differently since then, but
I still listened to a ton of punk music and
that's because of Paramore.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
That's great, And Jake obviously is a huge louzi Vert fan,
so that is a natural progress for him as well.
I joke, Jake, you got into Little Peep and Juice
World enough, I think you'd be fine with a little Loozivert.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
Yeah, it was fine. I don't think it's anything I'm
listening to on my day to day, but it's fine.
Speaker 1 (58:11):
It's now the time in the episode where Christina we
have to pick one of the songs that we talked
about from today for the Columbia House Party mixtape. I
guess normally we do a favorite songs off the album too,
if you if you want to give us maybe your
top three off the album, if you can pick them.
Speaker 9 (58:27):
So, I think I think we're probably all in agreement
that the song is for a pessimist. I'm pretty optimistic, right, Like,
that's like I think it's that's the one that I
would pick. But other than that, I put Crush Crush
Crust a second and then Misery Business third.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
Yeah. I h Jake, I'll open it to you here
because you have fresher eyes on this. But any disagreement
with with pessmist at number one.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
No, not all, that would be my exact order as well.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Actually yeah, I think I'd have Misbusiness slot higher, but
Pessimist was in my number one as well. Somous. Sometimes
we have to concede to the guest here, but unanimous
for pessimist, I'm pretty optimistic hitting that Columbia House Party mixtape.
And Christina, thank you so much for coming on. This
was wonderful.
Speaker 9 (59:12):
Thank you so much for having me. It was so
fun to talk to some up with you guys.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Awesome guys. You should give Christina a follow at fluzy
Esquire on Twitter. I Christina is one of the very
best follows on Twitter if you are a fan of
especially if you're a fan of music, but also if
you're a fan of poppy. So Christina, thank you so much.
Once again, please try the fish.
Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
Yeah, I
Just talk yourself up and tear yourself down. You've hit
your one wall, now find a way around. Well, what's
the problem. You got a new episode of Columbia House Party, Jake?
What's up man?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Not much?
Speaker 3 (00:36):
How are you doing on this cold not dating ourselves
month day of the year.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, careful, right out of the gate. Jake and I
had a big bonding day today where we got in
an argument with a guy in my mentions about defunding
the police or reimagining police budgets. So that was great,
brought us even closer together. We haven't been able to
go to a concert together in over a years, so
we now just have to fight fascists on Twitter to gain.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Really our fault for engaging in that one, I think.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yes, that's on us. Sorry to no, not sorry, if
you're that guy listening, get out of here. We need
listeners and we need Patreon supporters.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
You sorry to anyone who follows both of us and
had to see those messages on their feed.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
That's okay, this is Columbia House Party. Thank you so
much for listening, coming along and welcome if you're new.
Thank you especially to our Patreon supporters over at Patreon
dot com Slash Columbia House party over in the discord
that comes with your Patreon membership. Go join those people
if you're so inclined. Jake, we have a fun one today.
We talked about, you know, our concert history and us
(01:41):
bonding jokingly. This is one that made if you go
back to Clay's office when we first pitched this, this
was on the whiteboard. This was one of maybe like
six or seven we'll call them whiteboard albums when we
first pitched this show and brainstormed. But we wanted to
wait and make sure we got the right timing and
the right guest. And I think those things have all
(02:02):
lined up now.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, I want to say that outside of like bands
like Blank or like maybe even just Blank, I feel
like that this might have even been the first band
you suggested.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah. I mean, I think we locked in MCR and
follow up boy pretty early too.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
But yeah, but we're in that We're in that that
stature stratosphere though.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Today Jake, we're talking about one of the most influential
pop punk acts of the post Blank boom on the scene,
a band that created a news space for a wider
audience of fans and a wider supply of artists in
the genre for over a decade to come with a
singer who had to push through a lot of industry
and see nonsense to become the major pop punks success
that they were. Today we're talking about the sophomore album
(02:47):
from Paramore Riot.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
No, sir, well, I don't want to be the blame,
not anymore. Your to take a seat, settlings the final.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Score and why.
Speaker 6 (03:15):
So you can say you have.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
Made it hard to dress to.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Go on and what happened all the possibilities?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Well, I was wrong.
Speaker 7 (03:31):
That's what you get when you're nature hiding. That's what
you get when you're nature high wind.
Speaker 8 (03:46):
I can't trust myself holblin.
Speaker 6 (03:51):
To hapness, and that's what you get.
Speaker 8 (03:55):
When you nature homelin.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
That song is called That's what you get and what
you get listeners. Is a wonderful guest. Today, we'd like
to welcome Christina Squire's on Christina, how are you?
Speaker 9 (04:14):
I'm June Wow. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Guys really excited Christina. For anyone who doesn't know, First
of all, you can follow her at Fluzy Esquire on Twitter,
which is a terrific handle. She's also the co host
of the Puck Bunnies podcast a great hockey podcast, especially
if you are like me and don't want to get
bogged down in the You know, basically, what I'm trying
(04:38):
to say without without offending my friends in hockey media,
what I'm trying to say is that Puck Bunnies is
more fun and more accessible for a casual fan. No
disrespect to those other guys.
Speaker 9 (04:49):
You know, Yeah, we don't.
Speaker 6 (04:50):
We don't.
Speaker 9 (04:51):
We try to keep a little bit more surface level
because both of us are pretty shallow.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
So yeah, I mean, look, I need to know feel Yeah,
I need to know that Chris Cretor is hot in
case I hadn't seen a game in a while, and
I need to know what to do with my Tony
DiAngelo feelings, and you guys are where I go over that.
But also, like, I don't mean to undersell the analysis side,
because you are like the foremost voice on how teams
(05:18):
should play four forwards and one defenseman more often.
Speaker 9 (05:21):
I know, I really am. I'm proud to take that mantle,
and I'm proud to use any hockey knowledge that I
have for this episode, which I do not think that
I will be able to.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
That's okay, What's important is that you are an offensive
hockey strategy taste maker and a great music taste haver,
and that's why we brought you on. As mentioned, we
originally viewed this as kind of a pillar episode talk
about Paramore's riot, but we wanted to get the guests
in timing right, and we wanted to make sure that
I would be sufficiently roasted as I bring out my
(05:52):
notebook with Haley's name scribbled all over it, and I figured,
you know, we've had some guests who come on and
roast Jaker myself in the past, but Christina, I feel
like you're the best suited to just, you know, really
shrink me down and then give it to me.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Here.
Speaker 9 (06:08):
I'm sharpening my claws as we speak.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
I'm excited for this one. I don't I don't need
to get the brunt of this one this time. This
is nice.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah, I mean you don't know. I mean that's Christina
the thumbs up to let you have it too.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
So if there's anything that's very easy to do, it
is make fun of me.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Yeah, as that guy on Twitch today. So, Jake, I
don't know if you know this actually, but when you
first pitched me the idea of this podcast, and we
were kind of trying to frame what it would be
and tweak around the edges. Christina was actually someone that
I threw the idea by and like bounced a lot
of ideas off of. So listeners, if you enjoy the podcast,
(06:48):
which if you're still hate listening, you have an issue,
So you probably like this podcast, you have Christina to thank.
She really helped shape this. So Christina, thank you. First
of all. Oh, I'm bowing, and I know that. You
know the the implicit agreement when you you helped me
out with that was that you would eventually get to
(07:08):
do the national episode, but we figured we would wait
until one of the three of us get divorced for
that one.
Speaker 9 (07:15):
You know that's fair. You know I'm working off my
first one, so you know, I guess it's going to
be up to you guys for that.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't even have well,
we won't get into the personal stuff. I'm far from
a divorce.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Lauren has already said on this show that I have
divorced energy.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
So no, she said, you have divorced Seth Cohen energy.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
That's true.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
That's a compliment, though it's not it's so not it
might sound like a compliment. She did not mean it
like a compliment. So Christina, we will eventually bring you
on to do the National of course, but Paramore was
another artist you were excited to maybe come on and do.
So I guess to start off, why Paramore for you?
Speaker 9 (07:57):
Well, I think Paramore is just like coming up off
of that Blink one eighty two run of just very
powerful crossover sort of pop punk music that I think
brought a ton of people into the scene. So I
think this is the album. Like, so, I mean to
date myself a little bit. Whenever this album came out,
I was in eighth grade, so it was obviously a
(08:19):
huge entry point for me into the whole genre. You know,
back whenever I was in eighth grade, there wasn't Spotify
or anything like. We had to come to things from
the radio. And I remember Misery Business being on the
radio and being like, Wow, what is the ass? And
so it's just the perfect sort of segue entry point
(08:41):
I think for a whole different kind of music for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
And you know this is I'm a little bit older
than you, so when they came around, it was kind
of I was in my peak Warped Tour years and
we're going to talk about Warped Tour and the role
Warped played and Schaer a girl and everything like that
in Paramore's kind of story and the impact that they
had for me. This was kind of odd because I
had not a blockage, but I didn't like a lot
(09:07):
of bands with female singers in high school and even
within the pop punk scene. There were the odd exceptions
like Avril and Evanessence, but Paramore was like the one
band with a female front person that I was really
really into. I would also probably say that Haley was
the first person I was like ever unrequited in love with,
(09:30):
not unrequited, and not the first person I was ever
unrequited in love with, but like never had any chance
of meeting, whereas now the only people I fall in
love with are like online strangers that I'll never actually
meet in person. That was the first of one of
those for me. Maybe there's still hope you never know. Yeah,
this is the that Twitter reply, She's.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
Not gonna She's not gonna go out with you, bro,
Haley Williams, come on SHP challenge.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah I don't think so, but maybe so. Paramore have
long been a favorite act of mind and even into
their sound change in Haley solo stuff, which we'll talk
a little bit about at the end. The other summer,
I got to take my baby brother, who has adopted
a lot of my music tastes, to see the After
Laughter tour Paramore with Soccer Mommy at the Amphitheater in Toronto,
(10:16):
which was awesome and one of my favorite recent concert memories. Jake,
you have far fewer attachments to this album than Christina
and I.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I thought going into prepping this episode and really every
conversation you and I have ever had about Paramore, that
they were a band that I didn't listen to, kind
of like you, I was a stupid idiot in high
school who also didn't listen to a lot of female
friend of music. But in retrospect and kind of doing
(10:44):
research and the timing for them, I think I just
missed them because, like I thought, this album came out
in like two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
but if they started then, I was kind of already
in my I'm too cool for pop punk phase at
that point, So I think I just ended up missing
(11:06):
this band entirely and kind of discounting them similarly that
I did to a lot of bands in this kind
of scene other than my Chemical Romance at this age.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So he just walked right by that Pig stage at
Warped tour.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I just didn't just not for me. Yeah,
it wasn't even like it wasn't for me. It was
just like, ugh, this isn't punk because I was a loser.
And then I've heard songs of Theirs over the years
knowing it was them, and also a few that I
(11:41):
realized listening to this this week that I didn't know
was them, and so I caught This is kind of
one of those episodes which we've done a couple of times,
of me coming into an album with it completely fresh ears,
and I was surprised at how much I liked it.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Jake walking past the stage that has Paramore and Jones
Jed saying that's not punk as he goes to watch
the Aquabats, I'm.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Not gonna sit here and take Aquabats slander.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm over at the Academy Is performance.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And as long as no one was at three oh three, I.
Speaker 9 (12:16):
Actually didn't go to a concert until I was until
I was in college, so I was actually not a
Warped Tour at all. So you guys are both still
cooler than I am.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well debatable, that's what counts up. But thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Yeah. I mean maybe going to warp Tour gets you
cool points, but I literally lost the lebray piercing in
the pit at Warped Tour, which is uh, I think
you lose all the points. Your points reset to zero.
That's the bankrupt square of Warped Tour coolness. We're gonna
talk a little bit more about Warped. We're gonna talk
about Paramore's riot after this, all right, So a little
(13:05):
bit of quick background on the band here, Jake, like you,
Haley was a child star. She was, of course, only
at thirteen years old. Worked out the same for us,
I can say so. At thirteen, Hailey's family moved from
Mississippi to Tennessee. She met the Forer brothers at a
supplemental program for homeschooled kids. She took vocal lessons from
(13:28):
Brett Manning, who has worked with Taylor Swift and Poppy
and Miley Cyrus and then Haley, Jeremy Davis and another
friend had a funk cover band on the side, so
all these things kind of blend together and eventually those
different projects merge into what would be Paramour. But not
before Haley was signed by Atlantic as a solo act.
(13:49):
They tried to package her as a pop singer, but
as told by an R Steve Robertson, Haley wanted to
be a rock band to write their own songs and
kind of resisted to move to being top forty. So
in two thousand and four they officially formed a Paramore.
Hayley was sixteen, the Pharaoh Brothers were twelve and fifteen.
Davis was in and out of the bad Yeah, exactly.
(14:11):
It's like, basically like the band would have looked like
Hanson at this point. Yeah, twelve, fifteen, and sixteen, and
then Jeremy Davis, who was a little older, actually left
at one point because he didn't think like he basically
thought the band was too young to be a serious thing,
and then he'd later rejoin and leave again, and rejoin
and leave again a bunch of times, which is kind
of a Columbia house party special on some of these episodes.
(14:33):
So at that point, Atlantic didn't want them on a
major label. Once they you know, once they heard what
the Paramore sound would be, so instead all we know
is falling. Their first album in two thousand and five
was released on Fueled by Ramen, even though they were
signed to Atlantic. In the summer of five, they had
a little bit of a breakthrough with Pressure out as
a single and then their first song that I remember
(14:55):
hearing Emergency, which came out in the fall of five.
Speaker 10 (15:05):
As if we have an emergency, As if we have
an emergency, it's.
Speaker 6 (15:11):
Not fraid that you want side? Why? So are you listen?
Speaker 10 (15:20):
So?
Speaker 6 (15:20):
Are you watching there? It's not hot fraying that you
don't want sid This is an emergency, sir?
Speaker 5 (15:31):
Are you listening?
Speaker 6 (15:33):
Wait? Stay doubt.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
It's really not trouble. No one cares to.
Speaker 4 (15:45):
Talk about talk about.
Speaker 6 (15:51):
So s time? Why is that many times when we
ever start?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
All?
Speaker 9 (16:22):
Right?
Speaker 1 (16:22):
So, that terrific song, Emergency was once again performed by
a twelve, fifteen and sixteen year old a twelve year
old on the drums while we had a little tech issue.
We were talking about what we were all doing at
twelve and what we thought was impressive. Christina, do you
want to share again so that the people can hear it?
Speaker 9 (16:39):
Oh? Well, I impressed by myself that I could read
and listen to music at the same time. So it's
a little bit less drumming and a very popular song.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
But Jake, what were you doing at age twelve? You
weren't doing anything much, right.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I was starting a TV show, And my tip for
people entering media at age twelve is don't Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Well, Paramore had their problems over time as well. I
don't know if that was the twelve year old member
or the fifteen year old member. Surely the fifteen year
old was just way more ready for massive success right
out of the gate. Haley at sixteen was, I guess.
I don't know. They kept going along pretty pretty strong,
coming off of pressure and emergency, and just as importantly,
(17:25):
the iconic red couch album cover for that album, which
I don't know. I didn't when I went back and
listened to it in prep for this episode, I didn't know.
All we Know is falling quite as well as I
would have thought, given that that album cover holds a
place in my head. The album cover, by the way,
the Shadow Walking Away is intended to be Jeremy Davis,
(17:46):
who was leaving the band at the time, which is
very cool. Sub tweety Christina, were you were you into
Paramore at all? We know is falling time? Or was
it more when Riot came and was just such a
massive success.
Speaker 8 (17:58):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (17:59):
It was when Riot came out in two thousand and five.
I was like extremely in middle school and sort of
I'm so chicked. Yeah, I sort of still chicks to
the whims of whatever was playing on the radio a
little bit more so. Yeah, I wasn't super into them then, so.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
All right, Well, for people who were a little older,
they did pick up some steam. They did their first
Warped Tour appearance that summer in two thousand and five.
It was their first of five in a row and six. Overall,
the warp Tour scene has a lot of problems looking
back on it, and a lot of things have come
out since, but at the moment, it was a pretty
big deal for Paramore to get that spot. As Jessica
(18:39):
Hopper wrote in her book The First Collection of Criticism
by a Living Female Rock Critic, in an essay titled
Where the Girls Aren't, which was originally posted on Punk
Planet back in two thousand and three, which of course
is pre Paramore, she kind of goes into how this
scene had not just a sexism problem, but a pretty
a sexism problem that it was exacerbated by the lack
(19:01):
of representation. Enter Shier Yevin, who worked the two thousand
and three Warped tour and disliked the lack of female performances,
and she pushed for her own stage, the Sheer Girl Stage.
If you've ever been to a Warped tour, you surely
remember the bright, pink, loud stage of primarily female fronted bands.
Over two hundred female fronted bands ended up playing that
(19:22):
stage over time, including Paramore on this very first tour.
As Shier told Hello Giggles. First of all, some people
said that over the years you could see more women
getting onto other stages, bigger stages, main stages such as Paramore.
We're definitely really proud of being part of that history
and that story. Paramore is a huge runaway success. So
I think when people recognize that, I don't take credit
(19:44):
for their success, but when people come to me and say,
you really made a difference, it makes me feel good
to know that we made an impact. So I guess Christina,
for you, we can reframe this question as more two
thousand and seveny thirteen era Paramore instead of two thousand
and five. But for you, your Paramore fandom, was there
an element of, hey, there's female representation in this scene
(20:06):
and this this type of music isn't just for boys.
Speaker 9 (20:09):
Yeah, you know, I still remember the exact moment whenever
I heard my first Paramore song. It was on a
friend's neopets like website, like you could have like MP
three's basically play on your neopets homepage, and so I
heard Misery Business there and it was just like nothing
that I had ever heard before, and it sounded like
(20:30):
blank one eighty two, but it sounded like there was
a girl singing it. And at that point, you know,
I hadn't really gotten into punky or stuff other than
like you know, sometimes you would hear Ashley Simpson on
the radio and that was sort of the spectrum or
Avril Levine. But it was definitely something that sounded like
(20:51):
it was written by a teenage girl, which I found
very appealing, uh, but also delivered with a sort of
energy that I hadn't heard before. And it was really
exciting to hear a sort of a girls thing like that.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
And that was where a lot of the media attention
coming out of all we know is following intended to
focus on Haley took issue a little bit with places
like Krang focusing on her more than the group. Going
back to you know, when she first signed to Atlantic,
she wanted to be a part of a rock band,
not this solo act. Coming out of this album, there
was a bit of turnover. We could go into a
(21:27):
lot of the turnover of Paramore over the years, we
won't just because it gets kind of messy, and you
know some of the reasons, well, I'll just say Josh
Farrow is no longer in the band, allegedly due to
his views on the LGBTQ community and Haley kind of
ethering him in Twitter posts when it kind of came out,
and she was like, yeah, there's a reason that you know,
(21:49):
some people aren't in the band anymore and I am.
And they've had no success since, which good, good for you.
So the current iteration is Haley, Taylor Yorke, and Zach Farrow.
The iteration for the Riot era was Hailey, both Pharaoh's,
Jeremy Davis, and Taylor Yorke. So a lot of people
(22:09):
contributing at this time as well. Hunter Lamb took over
some of the duties as well on guitar and backing vocals.
So there was just a lot going on with the
band's personnel that will just gloss over. So they are
a pretty strong success off the first album and then
heading into their follow up. They recorded by a lot
of producers. They opted for David Bendeth and a hand
(22:30):
from Dan Cornef. Fuel by Raman Again was going to
release the second album Riot. As Hailey explained to the
title ryot literally means an unbridled outburst of emotions. When
we were writing, it seemed like our thoughts and emotions
were coming out so fast that we couldn't control them.
There was a riot within us. So the album takes
our passion to a new level. Not only does she
(22:51):
explain it like that, you get that cool moment on
every album when the title is mentioned in a song.
We played that's what you get off the top and
it has the lyrics this heart will start a riot
in me. Let's start start. So anytime you can do
that and be like, hey, they said the name of
the movie in the movie is a good moment. On
top of which, before you get into some of the
(23:12):
bigger songs, the once again a pretty iconic album cover
for Riot. Here, Jake, is that something that like, like,
I know you didn't listen to much Paramore, but like
how aware of you of Paramore were you and their
kind of popularity and imprint on the scene.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
I was definitely aware they existed, and like I knew
the name and I knew about I guess sort of
threw those press appearances that she wasn't a fan of.
I knew who Hailey Williams was, but that was kind
of it. And it's funny you mentioned like the album
cover that is very recognizable to me, and I actually thought,
(23:53):
as I said earlier, I have the timeline of Paramore
completely backwards. But I knew that you are a big
fan of After Laughter and like some of the later
poppier stuff, and I thought that the Riot cover was
one of those albums. And I didn't realize that the
Riot cover was like the Misery Business album. But like,
I was definitely aware of them. I didn't know any
(24:14):
of their songs, but I knew that they were like
the female pop punk thing. But I think I did,
like unfairly and incorrectly, with not hearing any of their music,
lump them closer to like the Avril.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Thing than the like even blink thing.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Well, you weren't alone in that jake, which we'll talk
about in a little bit. But I'm gonna call bullshit
on you not hearing them because everyone knew misery business,
and any Paramore discussion, especially riot Era Paramore, has to
have a healthy discussion of misbiz. Their most popular, iconic
and more recently controversial song. It was the lead single.
(24:54):
It was award nominated. You know it, this is misery business.
Speaker 4 (25:09):
Then the business of misery was taken from the toss
got a body.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
I can now regrest it in like a clock. It's
a matter of what.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Time before we go run known when I thought he
was mine, she.
Speaker 5 (25:19):
Caught him by the car. I waited at him a
line she probably said, free. I told him I canna lie.
He was the only one for me for two weeks
a week.
Speaker 6 (25:27):
Caught a fire.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Just get it out with me. But I wear the
biggest smile.
Speaker 8 (25:36):
I had a Oh, I got him a warning now.
It was never mind to jen a bri so way
in your mouth because of this so k, Because I
got him.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
A warning now and because of your girl here, he.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
Was not addressed.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
No s.
Speaker 9 (25:59):
No, just while that clip was playing, my head was
just bobbing, like like you just can't, you can't not
like jam to that song.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, of course. And then you also get the like
if we could do the slow motion movie camera inside
your brain, where like every synapse is firing, getting the
lyrics ready.
Speaker 9 (26:24):
Exactly exactly, like ready to go.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yeah. So I guess the first thing that we have
to talk about about that song is that it rules.
It's just a really good song, and obviously it was
again the lead single their most popular single, Christine, I
would imagine that was kind of your introduction to Paramore.
Speaker 9 (26:40):
Oh yeah, this was the song I heard on neopets
and I was just like, I gotta hear more of this.
Did not think about the lyrics at all.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah, so let's talk about that because I think it
does need to be unpacked a little bit. And we
do this with some of the bands that we've talked
about in the way some of the lyrics that don't
hold up, especially in the pop punkin emo scene, with
some of the underlying misogyny going on. This song, Misery
Business is a song about dealing with unrequited love as
a teen and seeing someone you long for with someone
(27:08):
else and kind of bided your time. It's a pretty
standard story in the genre, but in the case of
misery business, Hailey is directing some what she later felt
was undue anger at the other woman, who has done
nothing wrong. It's just you're the person you have a
crush on's girlfriend. Hailey even uses the word hohor to
describe the other woman. Hailey was iffy about this as
(27:31):
far back as when they were writing the song her
producer David Bendeth. She said, this just isn't me, and
then they had it back and forth. Was Bendeth explaining
this to Billboard how he kind of had to coax
the line out of her because she did write it,
but she didn't feel right singing it now. As she
told Track seven in twenty seventeen, as someone who who
(27:52):
believes themselves to be a feminist with the benefit of
adulthood and perspective, she said, it literally came from a
page in my diary. I couldn't have known at the
time was that I was feeding into a lie that
I bought into, just like so many other teenagers and
many adults before me. The whole I'm not like other
girls thing, this cool girl religion? What even is that?
Who are the gatekeepers of cool? Anyway? Little did she
(28:15):
know it was Jake. Are they all men? Are they
women that we've put up on top of an unreachable pedestal.
The problem with the lyrics is not that I had
an issue with someone I went to school with. That's
just high school and friendships and breakups. It's the way
I tried to call her out using words that didn't
belong in the conversation. It's the fact that the story
was set up inside the context of a competition that
(28:36):
didn't exist over some fantasy romance. So a little bit
unpacked there. But Christina, first, I guess just as an
adult woman who loved that song, do you have any
thoughts on kind of how the lyrics feel now or
Haley's own changing perspective on it?
Speaker 9 (28:51):
Well, you know, like as an adult, I can still
say the song banks, you know what I mean. I
know she doesn't play it anymore. I do. It's great,
But you know, I'm reading these lyrics as an adult,
and I'm just thinking about like an eighth grade version
of myself reading these and internalizing this, and especially with
all the other music that was happening at the time.
(29:13):
You know, what's unique about this song is that she's
singing the same sort of misogyny that a lot of
the other boy bands at the time were also peddling.
So she was really trying to, you know, have it
both ways. And so that's why I find her sort
of heel turn in later years about the song so empowering,
because I think she was obviously not comfortable with the
(29:36):
song when it came out, but now she seems to
be in a place where she can say, like, this
was obviously something very personal and I didn't mean for
it to reflect a larger culture, which it unfortunately exists in.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Yeah, I think that. I think that makes sense, and
you know, it's not something that I think none of
us as like teens or early twenties even you know,
this has come up a bunch when we talk about
Dashboard Professional or taking back Sunday or whoever. You don't
you're not really like conscious of how that can kind
of like that perspective gets normalized, right, And you know,
I do think the misogyny layer here is important because
(30:10):
I don't think there are very many instances where like
you have like dudes projecting this kind of anger and
hate at other dudes necessarily if anything like that would
be directed at the woman in the kind of love
triangle or whatever. So, as you mentioned, Christina, they do
not perform this anymore. It used to be a live
(30:30):
show staple. They would always bring a random fan up
on stage to sing misery Business, including my pal from
NBA Twitter, Marco Romo, who got to do it once
posted the video of it, which seemed like just the
most fun in the world, but they decided to no
longer perform it live and again. As Haley wrote on
her tumbler in twenty fifteen, which I didn't realize people
still used in twenty fifteen, ms biz is not a
(30:52):
set of lyrics that I relate to as a twenty
six year old woman. I haven't related to it in
a very long time. Jake, we've talked before about bands
that go away from songs that have questionable lyrics, like
when Hanif was on and we talked about the Descendants
and some of the songs they don't play anymore. Do
you have any thoughts at all on misbiz and their
decision to kind of axe it from the rotation altogether
(31:14):
versus tweaking it versus just you know, continuing to play
it with the benefit of a new perspective. Where do
you land on that?
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Yeah, I think a couple things. I think one, if
the band or artists themselves is uncomfortable with a song
that they wrote whatever it is now fifteen years ago,
then it is entirely their choice whether to play it
or not. I also think, like, good for Hayley Williams
for sort of reflecting on this and recognizing it, especially
in a scene where like I feel like a lot
(31:43):
of the not every band and but like a lot
I'm thinking specifically of Blank way too right now, but
they're not the only band like this, But I think,
like they're so big, and they're big, massive songs that
sort of have rics that could be construed as misogynistic
or are just directly misogynistic kind of don't belong to
(32:05):
them anymore because they're so big, they're just like accepted it.
And I'm not saying this is a good thing, but
like you and I went to see Blink what four
years ago now, and like everyone is like listening to
forty four year old Matt Skiba singing I need a
girl that I can train, and.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
It's like.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
We there's this sort of I want to say, like
gap now that like we know or we think, I guess,
we don't know that. Like Skeeba is not I was,
he didn't write it, but like even Tom DeLong is
not like thinking that right now, and whether they he
was for real or I was tongue in cheek at.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
The time is written.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
I have no idea, but I do think that male
artists have been able to sort of create that sort
of cognitive distance about it and now they don't have
to think about it, and no one has to think
about it because we've all just like accepted it's like
a funny blink song from Enema or whatever. And then
like you have people like Kayley Williams who are really
like reflecting and putting really like interesting thoughts and reevaluations
(33:14):
on her own career and her own work. And I
think it's so much more impactful and interesting from like
a personal and an artistic perspective to be able to
look at your most popular song and just be like, nah,
like this isn't me anymore. And I think that's great.
And I think that that kind of recognition is important
(33:36):
in the pop punk scene, especially the pop punk scene
of like two thousand and seven, two thousand and five.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
I think that's what I said, Jake, and I would
just push back on the one thing that Tom DeLong
might not feel that way about certain lyrics, but aliens exist.
He will stand by that's that's the truth. He was
right about that one. So yes, of course, all right,
let's lighten things up a little bit as we continue
on on Ryo. Here there is an underlying question in
(34:03):
Misery Business worth exploring on a on a more personal side,
and it kind of ties into the album's second single
and easily the biggest tune on side B of the album. Uh,
And that question is kind of what is the actual
protocol for shooting your unrequited love shot or up to
this point, unrequited shot?
Speaker 8 (34:21):
You know?
Speaker 1 (34:22):
In Misery Business she quote waited eight long months, But okay,
how long do you wait after the breakup to be
respectful but not missed the opportunity? Because if you hold
on to that for too long, it can get a
little dark, as it does on Crush Crush Crush.
Speaker 5 (34:42):
Yeah sick, miss, let me keep business.
Speaker 8 (34:53):
Till her your max out.
Speaker 10 (34:55):
The truth there lies little splies take over your mouth,
swiveled out the truth with the lies, you little spies.
Speaker 6 (35:17):
Nothing compare to not anything.
Speaker 10 (35:20):
Let's just not touss county nd I never happen and
something that you can't rest every one?
Speaker 6 (35:29):
Then yes I can't.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Baby.
Speaker 8 (35:40):
Don't you know that.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
I need something to sing about about that Bob?
Speaker 3 (35:47):
Don't you know?
Speaker 6 (35:48):
Baby?
Speaker 8 (35:48):
Where's I need something to say about rock the Boa?
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Don't you know?
Speaker 8 (35:55):
Baby wors love?
Speaker 6 (35:57):
Now?
Speaker 8 (35:57):
Give me something to think? But nothing?
Speaker 1 (36:24):
Okay, Christina, that was one of the songs that I
know you wanted to talk about it and one of
your favorites on the album. Before we dive into that song,
do you have a take on how long you wait
before you know it? Say the misery, business situation and
unrequited love guy and girl break up? How long do
you wait before making the move there?
Speaker 9 (36:44):
Well, it depends on how much coffee I've had that
day or how much alcohol I've had that night. So honestly,
I can't give you a straight answer there. Probably not
eight months, though I probably shoot my shot a little sooner.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Than that, I think you'd have to be they'd be
back off the market, sure, exactly. Okay, more to crush
Crush Crush. Why is that a favorite of yours? Why
did you want to talk about that song?
Speaker 9 (37:08):
Well, it's really funny. Earlier you mentioned in passing the
band Evanescence, and I loved the band Evanescence, obviously because
I was a weird little child and did not have
a lot of friends, and so I remember when I
heard this song for the first time, it reminded me
a lot of like that darker sort of like you know,
it starts out with the heartbeat, and like it's a
(37:31):
pretty dark song, especially to be one of their singles,
you know, Like you said, it's about what happens whenever
you bottle up those feelings, and I really related to
bottling up a lot of feelings probably for some very
like smooth Hairless Boy who had not gone through puberty yet.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
Smooth hairless Boy. There you go.
Speaker 9 (37:52):
So I think it just hit this like very fun,
emotional tenor, and it's just a great song. It's just bangs.
It's really it's almost hard to talk about songs from
this album just because there's so much of emotion from
youth tied up in it that like all I can
say is like, yeah, that song's really good. And I
can't get very technical about it.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
That's okay though, That's that's the whole point of the podcast.
The only time we ever get technical is when Steve's
on Oh God, and Steve wants to talk about like
chord progressions and arrangements and stuff. Steve, Yeah, yeah, And
I just want to shit post Steve on a podcast. Basically,
I lied by the way. Crush Crush Crush was not
the second single. It was a third single off the album.
(38:35):
Hallelujah was the second, and That's what You Get was
the fourth. So, Jake, I want to get your take
on the album structure here. It's something we talk about
a fair amount on this podcast. This is a pretty
side a heavy album to me, Crush Crush Crush, like
I kind of teed it up there is by far
the biggest tune to me on side B. And I
(38:56):
would argue five of the best six or seven songs
on the album are the first five, and the first
four are probably you know, four of their best known songs.
So what do you what do you think of that
in general? And crush Crush Crushes placed on the album
as you went back and listen to it for the
first time, because it does kind of you know, those
first four songs kick your ass and then Crush Crush
(39:17):
Crush is kind of not a standalone on the back half,
but it changes up the tone of the second half.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah, I think it's necessary. I guess is the word.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
I agree with you that I do feel like the
album kind of loses team in the second half, especially
after such a strong first half. But I like where
Crush Crush Crush is because it kind of has like
there's a bit of a lull after Misery Business, I
was like okay, and then Crushushrussing, I was like, Okay,
now I'm back in it. So I think it's well
placed to sort of like bring you back into like
this album is actually really fun.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Yeah, for sure. And you know, i'd argue that it uh,
I guess it tonally slows down after Misbizz, but when
it rains is a great track. Any album structure talk
about Riot, of course needs to mention that while it
wasn't a single for a pessimist, I'm Pretty Optimistic is
a Tier one album opener. This is for a pessimist,
(40:08):
I'm pretty optimistic.
Speaker 11 (40:28):
Just save yourself up and tell yourself you pretty one role.
Speaker 6 (40:40):
Now find a way you came.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
So what did you think I would say you can't
run away?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
That you can't run way?
Speaker 10 (41:01):
So what did you think I would say, you can't
move away?
Speaker 5 (41:04):
You can't move away?
Speaker 8 (41:05):
You would is?
Speaker 6 (41:07):
I got a lotta just set up this, set up.
Speaker 8 (41:12):
A lot and just set.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
I got my baby set by, say little, I got.
Speaker 8 (41:26):
By, just set address.
Speaker 6 (41:30):
Setting up, step up.
Speaker 8 (41:35):
I let my Fridaby step.
Speaker 6 (41:38):
By stay.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Just Christina very high rank in the album opener's.
Speaker 9 (41:55):
Pantheon, right, Oh absolutely. It just starts with this huge
wall of sound. And I actually think, like all of
these songs hold hold up to me on a nostalgia basis,
but I think this one holds up the most. Is
like you could hear this on the radio now. It's
super punk, especially for Paramore, you know, like to me,
this is a super punky song. And I think it's
(42:16):
a super brave opening choice and I think it really
paid off.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Yeah, I think it's great. Jake. What about you? That's uh?
I know you're you. You care deeply about album closers.
Speaker 9 (42:28):
Dan.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
I don't want to speak for you for born for this,
but i'd imagine you you came away more impressed with
the opener than the closer.
Speaker 9 (42:33):
Here.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yeah, well, like as someone who hadn't really listened to
this album before and like didn't really know what to expect,
I kind of went in being like the Misery Business
is the fireworks Factory, and I was like, Okay, let's
get to misery business.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
And then this came on.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
I was like, what, Like, this wasn't It wasn't at
all what I was expecting it to sound like, and
like this is, I would say, by far, my favorite
song on the album. I couldn't believe how good this
song is.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Yeah, it rules. It is posted on my Instagram story
the other day and I try not to do that
and tip off what albums we might be going back to,
but it's just like, it's such a good song. And
as I was prepping for this episode, every time I
went for a walk, instead of starting where I had
last left off in the album, I just started from
the top every time again because that song so song
(43:22):
kicks ass. It's also a great like lyrically, the whole
putting your faith in someone and they blow it theme
is just like very relatable and I think sets A.
I mean not that if you're going back to a
two thousand and seven Paramore album. You don't need to
be transported into the what romance was like in your
teens in early twenties. Here, you're probably already there, but
(43:42):
if you needed it, that kind of gets you there.
And I also just think that, like the song title
for a pessimist, I'm Pretty optimistic is kind of like
an mo for people who have I'll cast broadly like
our taste in music, where there's this natural kind of
dourness to soaking in the sadness with the music. But
(44:05):
the reason that you feel so deeply about it, or
that you fight through it, or that you feel deeply
just as a person in general, is that that tinge
of optimism persists. And I think that that song and
where the album goes from there holds that nicely, because
there is a lot of why did I put myself
through this on the album, but also a lot of
(44:26):
oh that's why on the album, which surely none of
us can speak to. So one final kind of ancillary
chat around Riot and Paramore that we wanted to touch
on is and to me, this is kind of looped
into Warped tour because of you know, I had a
specific set of friends that I went to Warp tour with,
and those weren't the same as my regular friends who
(44:46):
listen to a different kind of music. And you know,
I would kind of sometimes feel at this time that
like I didn't quite belong to any one group because
I was, you know, doing sports over here with this group,
and I have my punkin emo friends over here. And
I know Christina that that's something that you dealt with
around this time too, with the whole you know, for me,
it was jocks against drama kids against emo and punk
(45:10):
kids and kind of being split between those, and for
you it was more of kind of the punk versus
prep thing at the time.
Speaker 9 (45:16):
Oh definitely. I mean I get I talked about this
a little bit earlier, but this was before spot it By,
so you were only really finding music through either your
friends or through the radio. So it mattered so much
who you were what kind of music that you were
going to discover. And you know, I think that it's
sort of interesting whenever you whenever you think about Jake
(45:37):
listening to this now and sort of transporting back into
these like sort of clicky things that you never knew about.
Like I wonder how much that sort of teenage interpretation
sort of affects your listening to this.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Album for sure. And Jake, I guess you know, part
of it would have been you didn't have a lot
of people in your circle listening to this at the time, right, No, No,
whereas now I make you listen to stuff from this
era and this genre all the time.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, and a lot of it I really like.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
But yeah, I definitely I think all of like the
sort of poppy, punky emo jace stuff that I was
into in high school, save for like a couple maybe
more local acts, I mostly went to go to the
shows alone. And I don't mean that in like a
sad like I was alone kind of why, Like it
was awesome. I grew up in Toronto, so I got
(46:24):
to see everybody all the time, but it was I
didn't really find my like pop punk crowd till my twenties.
Speaker 9 (46:32):
And that's the other thing is, you know, I am
from the sticks, Like I am from a very small
town in East Texas, so like I didn't have access
to shows or like going to work too or anything
like that. And so I think that's why Paramore is
such a big band for me. It's just because like
that was sort of like the limit to what you
could discover on your own in a small town at
(46:53):
the time. So there's so much of an emotional connection
because like from Paramore, I got to fly Leaf and
like a ton of like other really cool bands like that.
So but I wouldn't have ever even listened to Paramore
at all if I didn't have like at least one
punk friend, Like, you know, all the preppy girls would
never listen to anything like this. So it's it's interesting
how that sort of stradiates, you know, between friend groups.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Which is funny to hear from the girl's perspective, because
I had a friend who dated lots of those preppy girls,
and he would borrow from my taste in music to
like impress them and like, hey, you might like this song.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (47:31):
So all it's all just a big circle and a
big ecosystem. We're gonna talk a little bit more, Christina,
You're not alone in Paramore having been kind of a
gateway for you and shaping some of your tastes. We're
gonna talk about how they did that more for the
genre as a whole after this. Okay, So Riot, as
(48:01):
Jake kind of mentioned earlier, and as we as we
had talked about, they got lumped in a little bit
Paramore did with Avri Levine and Kelly Clarkson. Some critics
seem to understand it, or at least concede that it
was quote very good power pop. Overall, it received mixed
to positive reviews. It's looked that much more favorably in retrospect.
Of course. It's number ten Modern Classic on Rock Sound.
(48:24):
They also have it as the number sixteen most essential
pop punk album. They were on a bunch of other
backward looking lists like that, and despite the mixed reviews,
it did well commercially. It peaked at number fifteen on
the Billboard chart. It eventually went double platinum. They did
Warp Tour again, and then because I haven't mentioned this
band in three or four episodes, they co headlined a
(48:44):
tour with the Starting Line.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Jake, Wow, that's a big show for you in retro
it's a big.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
Show for me. We're gonna get the starting liner. Even
like re releasing sessions of their old music lately, We're
going to get there.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Oh my god. Oh I know, I know.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
Not a Starting Line fan.
Speaker 9 (48:59):
Christ No, I don't have enough like hy chromosomes.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
So yeah, fair, but you know you don't. I guess
you don't have this. Maybe I just the quietly thinking
I'm smarter than everyone and I'm so clever lyricism is
you know, what's what's really missing from this podcast is
lyrics of dudes who thought they were more clever than
everyone else.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
Just wait till December spart two.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Oh god, oh my god, the Literary Degree albums all right.
So Paramore continued on. They did brand new Wise in
two thousand and nine, and then they released a self
titled in twenty thirteen after a bit of a long
break there. Paramore. The self titled in twenty thirteen was
a very big we can still do pop punk bangers
(49:46):
reminder album, highlighted by Christina one of your favorites. This
song still into.
Speaker 11 (49:52):
You can.
Speaker 2 (49:57):
Get that.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
A what have told you?
Speaker 6 (50:01):
Make you feel like?
Speaker 5 (50:02):
It's made you feel better?
Speaker 4 (50:07):
It's not a rock enough for it's alone you shut up,
but but nothing listen to but Canna can't.
Speaker 6 (50:17):
No you would.
Speaker 5 (50:20):
Because the turn this time, I'm still I should be
over on the butt.
Speaker 8 (50:31):
Proben a baby even on the worst night. Yes, my god,
this is star. It's not really yet this time.
Speaker 6 (50:51):
I still.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
Cause Jake, that was part of your listening homework, did you?
Speaker 9 (51:04):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (51:04):
How do you? How do you find that song versus
the songs on Riot?
Speaker 3 (51:08):
So my listening homework for those who aren't in me
and Blake's DMS was this song and hard Times off
after Laughter. And I didn't love this one, I'll admit,
but I am very intrigued by Hard Times and I'm
going to listen to that album this week because I
think that song's dope.
Speaker 1 (51:27):
Gotta say, as much as I've enjoyed having Christina on
and as much as I appreciate her in general, the
picking a self titled song as the post Riot song
instead of an after Laughter one was very difficult for me.
But Christina, you love still into You?
Speaker 9 (51:42):
Yeah, It's okay, isn't it like their most popular song ever?
So like, I am not alone here, You're not.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
I just I really like after Laughter, but.
Speaker 3 (51:53):
You wanted Nolake has been talking to me about After
Laughter for like four years.
Speaker 2 (51:59):
That's why I thought it was the same cover as Riot,
because I was like, oh, it must be that one.
Speaker 1 (52:03):
No. Unfortunately, you know, we defer to to guests here,
Like I said, at my core, I'm a simp, Christina,
And do you do you want to do you want
to explain the reasoning for still into you that you
used in the in the email to me, or do
you want to frame it differently.
Speaker 9 (52:19):
I don't remember what I said in the email because
I don't remember anything that I say after I say it.
But number one, it's just a really good song. It
starts out with that same wall of sound that they
like to do, and I think it really shows sort
of their fun evolusion to a little bit more of
a poppy sound, like you can hear the production on it.
I don't know. She sounds like she's having a lot
(52:40):
of fun in it, and I really like, this is
gonna sound stupid, but I really like the message. I
think it's a sweet little song. I listened to it
a lot when I work out. I think that's why
I have so many positive associations with it. But I
have to say I have actually never listened to After Laughter,
and now I feel like I have to go listen
to After Laughter.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
You want to talk about a killer workout album, It's
it's like all of the Hailey stuff that you like
from Paramore, but to like more up tempo synthpop. It's
it's a great workout Autre.
Speaker 9 (53:12):
Now I know what I'm doing after this podcast, there
you go.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
Also, they also play Still Into You really early in
the set list, and I actually think the last time
I saw them, they play Grudges as an opener, but
I actually think Still Into You would be just an
awesome album opener. And to kind of bookend this post
riot discussion, they at least when they were touring After Laughter,
they closed with hard Times, so can't go wrong either way,
(53:36):
Still Into You and hard if you're If you're one
of the first songs in the set and you're the closer,
you're doing pretty well right. So in addition to After Laughter,
Haley has continued on to do some solo work. She's
really Pedals for Armor and Flowers for Vass. As a
solo act, moody Er definitely a different sound. I'm into them,
I dig them, but if those aren't for you. She
(53:57):
has also said that Paramore will have a six album
sometime in the near future, and she is teased that
it is a return to their pop punk roots. Christina,
where is our expectation level for twenty twenty one? Paramore
back to the self titled sound instead of the after
Laughter sound.
Speaker 9 (54:16):
Well, I know that we're not supposed to have expectations
of anyone right now because it's a pandemic, but she
has nothing else to do besides make a banger album
for us, so my expectations are pretty fucking high.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Yeah. Look, I'm not purchasing good Die Young hair care
products in less that album rips and then you've got
my purchase for the album and all the hair dye
to go back to my pop punk days. Haley.
Speaker 9 (54:39):
I was sort of surprised that she is coming out
with another album because I really thought she had pivoted
totally to doing the hair dye stuff, because that's like
really her brand.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Now.
Speaker 9 (54:49):
She's actually super funny on TikTok as well. Oh interest, Yeah,
you guys.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
Check it out and have that. Because I'm an old dude.
Speaker 9 (54:55):
Well get with it. If Hailey Williams can do, we
can do it.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yes, that's true age appropriate as I was worried like
with the when I went into this, I forgot how
old Haley was, and I was like, is it gonna
be weird that I say that? She was like the
first person I had a huge, huge, crush on and
then no, she's age appropriate for me. So that's good
to know, Glad, I double check though. Okay, so yeah,
(55:21):
So in addition to obviously having this big influence on
people like us Christina with our music tastes and kind
of you know what, it opened up in the genre.
You know, Haley herself had a pretty big impact on
other female singers and female punk artists that came through.
Speaker 4 (55:39):
You know.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Again, this goes back to the earlier conversation about Warped
tours lack of inclusivity and representation. Originally, Katie Perry is
someone who's credited Hailey Williams as one of the strong
leaders kind of paving the way for women in the scene.
And then you hear people like Snail Mail, Grimes, Soccer Mommy,
people across a lot of different genre as well point
(56:01):
to Haley, you know, as far as like lil Uzi
Vert and Princess Nokia. Like, there's there is a wide
ranging paramour influence here, and none of the three of
us can speak to this, but I've seen plenty of
tweets over time about how Paramore is really really popular
among like non white groups as well people of color
and then obviously the LGBTQ plus community as well, given
(56:25):
Haley's earlier comments. So I'm not sure what it is
exactly about Paramore that that kind of just it pushes
past all like demographic boundaries, But their influence has been
been pretty wide. If you're if you're checking off Grimes,
Soccer Mommy, and lil Uzivert, you've you've had a wide net. Christina,
(56:45):
who are who are some of the other bands that you,
I guess would credit to you know, enjoying Paramour and
that kind of got you into some other bands trickled
down from there. Well, you know, it's.
Speaker 9 (56:56):
Interesting that you talk about sort of you know, who
have inherited the mantle I guess from Paramore because it's
so interesting that like Paramore was a super produced band,
you know what I mean, Like they were signed with
like a big record label, and yet she was still
managed to inspire all of these more diy Like, you know,
(57:17):
bands don't really happen like Paramour anymore. They sort of
have to prove themselves in social media following before they
can get anyone to sign them anyway. So coming off
of Paramore here, I'm looking at Paramore's like Spotify just
to see who I got into from them. So Paramore
was the first sort of pop punk band that I
listened to. From them, I got into Fallout Boy, my
(57:39):
Chemical Romance, just all that stuff. Lyle if I've already
talked about them, and I've obviously sort of my music
tastes have gotten a little bit differently since then, but
I still listened to a ton of punk music and
that's because of Paramore.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
That's great, And Jake obviously is a huge louzi Vert fan,
so that is a natural progress for him as well.
I joke, Jake, you got into Little Peep and Juice
World enough, I think you'd be fine with a little Loozivert.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
Yeah, it was fine. I don't think it's anything I'm
listening to on my day to day, but it's fine.
Speaker 1 (58:11):
It's now the time in the episode where Christina we
have to pick one of the songs that we talked
about from today for the Columbia House Party mixtape. I
guess normally we do a favorite songs off the album too,
if you if you want to give us maybe your
top three off the album, if you can pick them.
Speaker 9 (58:27):
So, I think I think we're probably all in agreement
that the song is for a pessimist. I'm pretty optimistic, right, Like,
that's like I think it's that's the one that I
would pick. But other than that, I put Crush Crush
Crust a second and then Misery Business third.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
Yeah. I h Jake, I'll open it to you here
because you have fresher eyes on this. But any disagreement
with with pessmist at number one.
Speaker 2 (58:51):
No, not all, that would be my exact order as well.
Speaker 1 (58:54):
Actually yeah, I think I'd have Misbusiness slot higher, but
Pessimist was in my number one as well. Somous. Sometimes
we have to concede to the guest here, but unanimous
for pessimist, I'm pretty optimistic hitting that Columbia House Party mixtape.
And Christina, thank you so much for coming on. This
was wonderful.
Speaker 9 (59:12):
Thank you so much for having me. It was so
fun to talk to some up with you guys.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Awesome guys. You should give Christina a follow at fluzy
Esquire on Twitter. I Christina is one of the very
best follows on Twitter if you are a fan of
especially if you're a fan of music, but also if
you're a fan of poppy. So Christina, thank you so much.
Once again, please try the fish.
Speaker 4 (01:00:15):
Yeah, I
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com