Saves The Day Create the Pop-Punk Cliches (ft. Drew Fairservice)

In the latest episode of Columbia House Party, hosts Jake Goldsbie and Blake Murphy are joined by Drew Fairservice (@DrewGROF) to discuss Saves the Day’s 1999 bridge album for the pop-punk scene, Through Being Cool. Drew might cringe at that term pop-punk given his – and Chris Conley’s – hardcore roots, but tracing from Lifetime to Fall Out Boy through Saves the Day is tidy work. Find out more about Drew’s experience seeing Saves the Day in the hardcore scene, how the band’s slow transition to pop-punk made waves for the bands that followed them, and why Red Jeans 3:16 says “my spleen is dropping from my pants” on this week’s podcast.

Sick of hearing all the ads? Subscribe to Soda Premium on Apple Podcasts to get rid of them!Follow @ColumbiaHP on X!

While you're there say hello to @BlakeMurphyODC and @JGoldsbie.If merch is your thing, be sure to check out the store: http://bit.ly/chpmerchOr reach out to the show and say hey: [e-mail]

If you enjoyed today’s show, please rate Columbia House Party 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts.
See you next week for another episode of CHP.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:24):
This isn't the way we planned. I wasn't supposed to
forget your taste. Like nights spent listening to the latest
episode of Columbia House Party on your old rooftop at
Christy Pitts.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Jake, what's up, I miss Christy Pitts.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yep, it's now too cold to hang out outside with
our friends.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
It's too cold, too full of skunks and also it's cold.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Are you afraid of skunks? You being afraid of skunks? No,
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
The Last time we were at Christy Pitts this summer,
one single skunk chased out literally thirty two adults from
Christy Pits. It just kept going to everyone's blanket, and
it was amazing how utterly powerless adult humans are with skunks.
They're just like, I guess we're leaving now. Our night
is over because of the skunk.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Well, here's the thing. I could beat up a skunk,
but I would stink after and I would rather just leave.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
Yeah, Like, you could definitely take one, you would just
smell a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah. Also, they're cute.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
They are cute like skunks that their stink lands are
cute little little pets.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah. Also, what a weird evolutionary thing to smell bad.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
As a defenseman, it smells real bad though, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Did that night at Christy Pits did? Did? Also not
a dog get skunked in your party?

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Different night?

Speaker 1 (01:46):
Oh wow?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
But with said Doug was with us when all the
Alts are like, I guess we're leaving now?

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Damn? Yeah, Well what are you gonna do? Well, what
I'm gonna do in this episode is just sit back,
because we have a guest who's better at I don't
want to say better podcasting than you, Jake, but no,
he this man in the host chair, the bass in
the voice, the buttery tones that come out of him
as he speaks. We are going to introduce him in

(02:13):
just a little bit.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
First.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Last week, Jake, we discussed taking back Sundays Tell all
your friends a pivotal album for me. This week's episode
was more or less demanded by our guest, Jake, what
do you have for us today?

Speaker 2 (02:27):
So this week we're talking about a seminal album in
the pop punk lexicon, an album that was not really
one of quote unquote my albums when I was younger,
but is, weirdly for an audio medium, a very big
visual album for me, as it would always be front

(02:50):
of shelf when browsing the HMV Punk section down at
three point thirty three Young Street in downtown Toronto. You
couldn't search through any punk bins or shelves in the
two thousands without seeing this album somewhere or reading about
it on an online forum, as I did so many

(03:11):
times as a youth. So today we are talking about
Saves the Days through being Cool?

Speaker 4 (03:23):
Gone come.

Speaker 5 (03:27):
Yeah the play you Get Up? You of Me by
Will you come on down? Joy?

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Where Way.

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Get a million?

Speaker 5 (03:51):
Play get You Gone? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (04:33):
All right, So Jake to help us talk about Saves
today and through being Cool. A gentleman who basically demanded
this episode, we are joined today, Drew fair service, Drew,
what's up? Man?

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Gentlemen? However excited you think I am to talk about
Saves the Day? I assure you I am more.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
I have in my notes here. I'm surprised requested this
and not like a great album.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah, we had him in the We had him in
the thing for Braid, didn't we planning sheet.

Speaker 3 (05:01):
We had been talking about Braid, which is great. And
when that time comes, I will be happy to come
back the second time and talk about framing canvas for
no reason other than I have a great story that
connects Braid and subject of I believe an earlier episode
of the show, which is some forty one, but I

(05:22):
will save that for then. But I don't know what
prompted this other than I think I like this record
is having a bit of a moment now. Me last
year at this time, we don't did last year at
this time, they played a bunch of shows as like
the twentieth anniversary and played it front to back. But
they were playing like six thousand cap rooms of this

(05:42):
record twenty years later, which is amazing. But I'm excited, gentlemen,
thank you so much for having me on to do it.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
You guys probably know Drew anyway, but just in case,
you can follow him at Twitter on Drew at Drew
grf Groff. You can also listen to his Blue Jays
podcast and subscribe to his excellently named newsletter, Vlad Religion
at Fairservice dot substack dot com. Should A wore my
VLAD shirt from you guys today, Drew, I dropped the ball.

(06:11):
You also know Drew from yelling at me and Jake
when we have the wrong music takes on our timelines
for example. Correct we have talked about in the origin
story of Columbia House Party that one of the things
that sparked us want to do a music podcast was
like the once every two years a bunch of us
just end up re ranking our Alkaline Trio albums online.

(06:32):
Groff is a part of that. He has also yelled
at me like a disappointed dad for once tweeting a
positive thing about the band Bayside. So Groff was he
was gonna find his way on here at some point.
And the other week he texted me and was like, hey,
you guys should do through being Cool episode And I
was like, is that you asking to do through being

(06:53):
Cool episode with us? And it was so welcome.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
Man, I'm excited. I'm so excited, and the irony is
of course. So this is which I believe. This is
almost like Jake's territory. But this is not my favorite
Saves the Day record, But we can get into that
time as time permits.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
That will come up.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
I recall with it. I'm not spoiling anything here, but
I do recall your hot Saves the Day take and
how excited you get to let people know your hot
Saves the day take, So I can't wait for that
part of the that part of the show before we
get there. Drew, I know you mentioned just kind of
throwing it out in this album, having a moment in
the last a little bit. But why saves the day

(07:30):
for you? I know, Chris Conley, you know, is a
hardcore kid who turned kind of pop punk melody guy.
Maybe maybe there's a little groff in there. Why saves
the day for you? To come on the pod again?

Speaker 3 (07:41):
I think that these records, this record is having a
having a bit of a moment. There are a lot
of different reasons for it saves the day. You mentioned,
so Chris Connelly is a hardcore kid that saves the
day at their core or in their in their origin,
they were a hardcore band. They didn't sound like the
bands that they toured with. They famously first toured with Baine.

(08:02):
It was like they're both of their first tours. They're
both unequal Vision records when they put out their kind
of first full length, So they were a hardcore band
in form and then in like aesthetic and there's something
there's something about like hardcore kids. When they move on
to other things, there's still always hardcore kids, and like
it always comes through.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Just ask Pete Wentz, Well.

Speaker 3 (08:22):
Just ask Pete Wentz. Just just ask the other guy.
He's in Sect, right, the drummer from from from Fall
Up Boys in Sect. But or even like bands like
Gate Creeper, which is like a death metal band that
is made up of hardcore kids, and there's just something
I can't even put my finger on it, and I'm like,
I like that band, and I don't like any other
death metal bands essentially, And so this was like, you know,

(08:43):
Saves the Day has this crazy trajectory and the first
record and then this record I really really liked and
like had a great affinity for this band, and then
effectively we parted ways. We went in very different directions
and I never really returned. But on top of this
record having its Twentiethan of Nursery Hate five six Sonny
Singh has put up two Saves the Day sets on

(09:05):
his site that I follow religiously, where he shares new
bands and old bands and nostalgic sets and digs up
digitalizes random old sets from Glass Jaw in New Jersey
from two thousand and two. But he put up recently
the Last Bain Show on top of the Last Bain Show.
Saves a Day played that show and it is probably
the greatest video, the greatest like twenty three minutes of

(09:27):
video that is on the entire internet is that Saves
the Day set at the Last Bain Show. So those
things have like put them in front of me again
and again, and I'm like, oh right, I love these
songs more than anything in the world.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
And sorry, who is it who posts these sets? Want?

Speaker 3 (09:43):
I want these five six? On Instagram, on Twitter, everywhere
hate number five six. Sonny Singh is his name. He
is a brilliant computer scientist basically who has quit his job.
I believe he has his Masters in computers and computer
science from like Harvard or something like that. Or Brown
who left the rat race to film hardcore bands. He

(10:05):
shoots them. He shoots multiicam, he does audio right from
the board, and he's been doing it for years and
now it's like his job. He has a Patreon, he
has supporters all over the world, and so he'll go
and shoot bands. He goes to Japan. He went to
Japan with Jesus Peace last year and shot a bunch
of Jesus Peace shows, went to Australia, I think with
Knock Loose and shot a bunch of shows with them,
But he also digitizes these old shows and he shoots

(10:27):
like the last Bane show he shot and had to
wait until just this past summer, being last show was
in twenty sixteen. They have a documentary that's just come
out that you can rent on like Apple or whatever
on Apple iTunes and on Amazon Prime and stuff, because
it's a documentary built Baine in the Last Show, and
they waited until the movie was ready to come up
before they released the last set. Long story short Hay

(10:48):
five six the best account on Instagram, like the absolute
god of spreading the gospel of hardcore and bands that
are hardcore hardcore adjacent. He's also not afraid to lean in.
He's very very political, very happy to share like some
really interesting and important political perspectives of his own and
also people within his community and the hardcore community and
the community at large, which gets him flat because some

(11:10):
kids just want to mosh right. But long story short
Hate five six put this this this saves a day
set from the Ban Show online and then they played
that this is hardcore last year or two years ago,
No last week twenty nineteen and they go and they
play these hardcore shows, like every like three years. They
just show up and play a hardcore show and they
play all old songs and it is the greatest thing

(11:32):
that has ever happened, Like there's no The Bane set
in particular is absolutely without flaw. Like from the second
they play the first chords of the first song to
the minute that it's over, I am in ecstasy, just
loving every second of it. So this put it in
front of me, and then also just thinking a lot
about this band and they're still going and they you know,
I have this whole bit. Well, I'm sure we'll talk

(11:53):
about it, and it's about like code switching and how
they can just like like flip the script and like
be this band and people in that community accept them
because for whatever reason. But so they show up and
play a hardcore show and then they go and he
changes his voice and they play there all their new songs,
and they've got like nine records or something by now,
which is cool, and they play to a completely different
audience who's not no clue maybe where they've come from,

(12:17):
but those are those who do know where they where
they've come from and their journey I think there's some appreciation. Let's,
you know, go do your thing, you know, sell records,
you know, get that, get get money, play those different
kinds of venues. That's awesome. And then to be able
to come back and do that and be the band
that you maybe are in your DNA, it's really cool
and it's really something that I appreciate. And then here
we are, and then because three being cool, it was

(12:38):
that record that blew them up. I thought I'd make
for a better conversation piece for the show.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, that's great, And I love the term code switching
for that, and it's it's a term that I should
have used a little bit more in some of the
kind of like genre bending episodes we've done, Jake, Before
we dive into the album Your Own Connections, I know
you said this was this was a Binning or I
guess the CD era version of Binning album for you.

(13:02):
It is one of the best and like I think
most iconic album covers from this era. Do you have
a connection musically or is it more just like I
see this everywhere as a I guess as a downtown team.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Uh, definitely more so the latter, But like musically now,
I think I connect to it more like not that
I wasn't listening to this kind of music in like
two thousand and two, which I absolutely was, but I
think I like just missed it. I'm just too young
for it to have hit me.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
But like certainly going back you can hear like take
You Back Sunday follow up Boy Motion City soundtrack there
they all borrowed from this or were like, hey, if
saves the Day, can do that, Like maybe we can
do that too.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah, And it's I also think it was like more
of less the music and more just the aspect of
like being just too young to get the exposure to it,
like listening to it now. And you know, we were
talking a couple weeks ago about sort of the middle
Green Day album of like specifically Insomniac, and like this
isn't that far from that which I was into at
that age. Like I'm sure if I had heard it,

(14:07):
I would have been like, this is the greatest thing
I've heard of my life. But this is more just
a band and an album that was They've been so
like ubiquitous in scenes that I've been in throughout my life.
And like whether as I said, whether it was you
know browsing online music forums in my teens, and they
were always come up in like the what are you
listening to right now? Topics or whether it was browsing

(14:30):
record stores or whatever. It's an album and a band that, like,
I was aware of the album and the band long
before I ever listened to the album or the band,
and they've just sort of been ever present in sort
of the pop punk sphere, at least if you're a
certain age of which I am.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
For sure for me personally, and again not to not
to give away any of Drew's rankings, but we're going
to talk about the different Saves of Day albums at
the end. For me, I came across Staves to Day
through Stay What You Are because At Your Funeral is
a you know, the that jersey is hanging in the
rafters of the LimeWire arena. There was there were very

(15:14):
few songs as LimeWire as At Your Funeral by Saves
the Day. But going back to this now, through being
Cool is obviously terrific, and the through being Cool versus
Stay What You Are versus maybe some other albums debate
is a fun one. We're gonna talk about through being
Cool first, we're gonna talk about it after this, all right, Jake,

(15:48):
Drew Adolf, You're played a little bit giving us some
of the hardcore background on Saves Today, but set up,
set up through being Cool for us.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
Saves Today were formed in ninety six ninety seven ish
in New Jersey area under the name Selfer, which was
a four piece which Chris Conley played bass and sang on.
They changed our name in nineteen ninety seven to Saves
the Day. Chris Conley is the only member from the
original lineup that is still in the band. They've had
sort of an ever changing lineup to your point. Through

(16:18):
Being Cool and the follow up are the only albums
in the entire Saves Day discography that were released back
to back with the same lineup, as Drew was saying.
The first proper album, Can't Slow Down, was released in
nineteen ninety eight on Equavision Records, when most of the
members were all still in high school. This sort of
caused some grief for them at shows, as they were

(16:40):
playing mostly hardcore venues and hardcore shows and they were
heckled on stage. Chris Conley told Wired in an oral
history about Through Being Cool that we got heckled at
every show we were playing with hardcore bands. Everybody else
is screaming, and we sounded like these little kids trying
to sing. We were awkward teenagers. People would make fun
of me for my I have to I would say here,

(17:02):
they're actually a little older than I thought they were.
Like I knew that their thing was like they're the
high school pop punk band, but I actually thought they
were still in high school when Thruugh Being Cool came
out and that was the thing. So I was surprised
to learn that they're actually like two years older than
I thought they were.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Another parallel to to grof sneaky old Wow.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Wow. I feel I have nothing to say other than like,
that's probably true, but it relates to my connection to
the band in that they are probably the same agent
as I am or Chris is.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
I would guess that's all I was saying.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair and also makes sense
why they It has a stamp on you as well
in that sort of hardcore kind of scene anyway, As
you were saying earlier, Can't Slow Down is very much
more so in the melodic hardcore vein compared to later work.
They've said They were influenced by bands like Seven Seconds

(18:00):
and Lifetime. Lifetime specifically as they were Chris Conley's favorite
band at the time. They recorded cancelo Down on their
winter break of high school, and it's also the only
record with Sean McGrath on bass, who I only mentioned
because it was his idea to change the name from
Selfer to Saves the Day. And as Drew said, I

(18:22):
actually have in my notes. I'm only bringing up this
up because Drew is here. Their first tour was a
tour with Baine. As we said, and by their own admission,
Chris Conley's own admission, they kind of just were trying
to sound like Lifetime as much as they could. They
even have the same producer, Steve Evatts, who produced a

(18:43):
lot of Lifetime stuff, where Conley apparently chased after him
specifically for that reason. And here is an idea of
what they sounded like in the canceler Down era. This
is a song called the CHOKEH.

Speaker 5 (19:11):
Told me again and stay yet I haven't even set
a word and I go bad, but I'm upsettoo, saying
what I want to this.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
I'm like, dude, don't know, I f.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
But in my head That's why.

Speaker 4 (19:32):
I'm a man. I need it by my tim by the.

Speaker 2 (19:37):
Table, my big write some love the words tell you.

Speaker 5 (19:42):
Just tell gods before I did not roun and I
the time to.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Be on this susag sh I well shut myself.

Speaker 4 (19:56):
When I have done.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
Why it's funny how they the band and also sort

(20:38):
of music critics talk a lot about that record as
being like more in the hard core vein like it
is comparatively, but it's also I see why they sort
of got heckled at Bane shows.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Did they get heckled? Is that is that the or
were they like how long Drew did it take for
them to kind of be accepted in that regard as
like like you said that not ode switchers, but also
you know, an opener with a very different sound.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
So my experience is that they were me and my
friends in particular, we love them. We just love them
because that first record, the songs are so good, and
some of my friends some of my best friends in
the world to this day. They played in a hardcore
band that was like closer to hardcore, probably sound more
like Bain and they opened the one Saves It I

(21:26):
think probably was the first time Saves that they played
in Toronto and they played with the hardcore band called Fastbreak,
and so they Save the Day was at that point
the headliner, but they got heckled for weird reasons. And
this is about as nineteen ninety nine a story as
I can tell, So Saves the Day, you know, you
talk about that iconic covert to through being cool. So

(21:50):
they stuck stood out a little bit to like hardcore kids,
especially hardcore kids are like southern Ontario who would be
on the internet stuff. Because of the way that they dressed.
There was a big thing about the shoes they're wearing,
these creepers, and like, you know, they were like hardcore kids,
but like hardcore adjacent. So there there was this story
about how the guy Chris Connelly from Saves the Day

(22:11):
used to wear sometimes on tour on stage, he wore
red jeans. So the first time that I saw Saves
the Day, which is honestly one of my favorite shows,
my friend's band Notoriety, played with fast Break and Saves
the Day and they played at the Blue or Jewish
Community Center at Blue and Spadina, like upstairs, this teeny
tiny little spot, no stage came right on the floor
I've got pictures of it like that because I used
to this again very nineteen ninety nine, would bring a

(22:32):
disposable camera with me to shows and like hold it
up and take pictures of bands and people dancing and stuff,
and you can see like the bank across the street
that's not even there anymore at this at this hardcore
show at the Blue Jewish Community Center. But because of
the way that they dressed almost they kind of would
get grief from like hardcore kids who were maybe there
to see Fast Break Fast Break. So he had used
to wear red jeans, and I swear to God, in

(22:54):
the most nineteen ninety nine moment of all time, when
they played somebody who was just kind of sitting off
at the side kind of up side stage had had
a sign that he had made and in Marker had
written red jeans three sixteen and then.

Speaker 1 (23:08):
Held it up. So he held up the red that
loud into the mic.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
I was ready for it. This was the right audience
for the Red Jeans three sixteen. So at one point
Chris was like taken a little bit taken aback by
the fact that like he was like what does that mean?
And then like kind of put this kill, especially.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
If you're not a wrestling fan at that time. Well,
but how do you even know what the three sixteen is?

Speaker 3 (23:34):
I feel like they got he got that much because
you know, that was peakstone cold, but I think he
was more like what's up red jeans? That he was
probably not wearing red jeans at that show. But so
that was the kind of shit that that happened with
them that people will talk about the way that they
dressed and like they're kind of mannerisms and just But
the songs were the songs, right, The songs were huge
and at that show, at that tiny venue, the crowd,

(23:56):
like the people that were there singing along every single word,
having a great time. They played a great a great set,
and then that was it and then they you know,
that was again that was a hardcore tour they were
on tour Fastbreak Fastbreak is like a replacement level kind
of youth crew band, which is fine, you know, for one,
Fast Break record is a little bit interesting, But that
was kind of the relationship that they had with maybe
some people within that within that hardcore community was like

(24:18):
they're just something was about them, But it's very much
about a matter of geography too, So Chris, you know,
in some of these interviews, has talked about and you've
spoken about his relationship to Lifetime. So Lifetime was a
band that my friends and I loved, and that was
one of the reasons I like this Saves the Day
record so much because I loved Lifetime and they had
just broken up. And Lifetime was like an East Coast

(24:40):
a lot of cardcore band that would get taken on
tour by Good Riddance, right, good Riddance from Fat Reck
and like that southern California scene and sound they good
Riddance love to prove to how cool they were all
the time by bringing like actual hardcore bands on tour
instead of like other fat reck bands. And so my
friends and I, who had kind of come up into
that world, right we had we got swept up through

(25:02):
you know, No Effects and Pennywise and Lagwagon and all
that sort of stuff, and then that all that stuff
all blew up and it started to open our eyes
two different things. And Lifetime was one of those bands
for me where you know, you've used the word pop
punk to describe Saves a Day, and it's like making
my skin crawl because it's not but it is, right
like it is. I'm because I'm an old man who's
an idiot. But Lifetime was different, and then Saves a
Day was not different. They were not different at all.

(25:23):
They were exactly like Lifetime. But for me, it was
exactly what I needed. I loved. If you haven't heard Lifetime,
you listen to this and you're like that kind of sound,
that melodic hardcore or and or pop punk kind of sound,
you have to go and find Hello Bastards or Jersey's
Best Answers, incredible, incredible records, really cool songs. They sound
like shit because they were recorded like twenty five years ago.
But it's a bit of a different it's a bit

(25:45):
of a different era you're stepping back into. But Jersey's
Best Answers is an incredible record, and so it was
very much like the Lifetime but so it all fit right,
it fit and just like Lifetime. They you know, these
bands evolved, but the kids stayed with them. And even
a band like Lifetime that people used to give them
a hard time. They have a famous sweater Lifetime of
a guy holding a bag of money. It says money
is cool, and it's like a supposed to be like

(26:06):
a little guy running away. And that was because people
accused Lifetime a band that no one has heard of. Realistically,
they were they sold out right because they pursued a
somewhat more melodic sound. They weren't a hardcore band anymore.
They had a different sound. They just wanted songs that
they could sing, people could sing along to as much
as anything. Right, I mean, a lot of Lifetime records
for a lot of listeners would probably still be abrasive,

(26:28):
but for those who have been weaned on a certain sound,
they didn't quite fit in. But they were also very
much accepted and and and got to kind of again
have feature that that aesthetic that made them look and
feel a certain way, even though they weren't trying so from.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
There, you know, that's their their kind of origins in
the scene and what it was like as they were touring.
But as we get closer to through being Cool, and
especially in the year's post through being Cool, they I
guess somewhat ironically had this huge influence on a scene
that they didn't come from. And you know, a lot
of these bands that are graff to use the term

(27:07):
that makes your skin grow, A lot of bands that
are inarguably pop punk and kind of took what saves
the day was doing versus the hardcore scene and took
it to, you know, the next logical point in that transition, Jake,
So what went into that between the time of the
choke and Through Being Cool? Let's speed us up to
Through Being Cool era Saves the Day here.

Speaker 2 (27:28):
So cancelo Down was by its standards, quite successful. It
sold eight thousand copies. By the time Through Being Cool
was released, they were tooing around the country in a
van that Chris Conley's mom bought because they were literally children.
In early ninety nine, they released an acoustic out EP
called I'm Sorry, I'm Leaving with their own resources, and

(27:50):
then in November ninety nine is when they would release
Through Being Cool. As I sort of quickly mentioned, they
had significant turnover as a band between canceled In and
Through Being Cool, Conley said in that Wired piece, we
had like three different lineups touring on Can't Slow Down
within no time. The only other original member left was
drummer Brian. At the end of our very first full

(28:10):
US tour, our guitar player quit, which then they brought
in Dave Soloway who would just drive the band to
gigs when they were in high school, as they're guitarist
and he sort of expanded the sound a little bit.
Chris Conley said that David wasn't a punk guitar player.
He came from bluegrass and his family would sit around
singing folks songs and stuff at home, playing piano and banjo.

(28:30):
They would also bring in Ted Alexander on guitar, who
was the band's roadie, and Conley said that he spent
so much time with them, they just gave him a guitar,
and these sort of new influences, new members and all
that all contributed to the sound change. And I would
also say that despite Drew's sort of hesitation at the

(28:53):
pop punk term, a thing that we should talk about
with this album that I don't think was intended at
the time. I'm as early adopters of these things usually aren't,
but I do think now it's sort of I think
this album established a lot of pop punk cliches, let's say,
or at least use them to an effect in an
effective way that hadn't been used quite before, especially the

(29:17):
way that Conley writes his love songs or breakup songs,
and especially a song like this one which rules called
rocks Tonic Juice Magic.

Speaker 5 (29:27):
Let me take this songta right deads talk guys dot
so less away out.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
To read this be solve you with me, Sola say
to hate too.

Speaker 5 (29:43):
It will be alright.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
We could see time sometime.

Speaker 5 (29:56):
Fuck somehow you mine and if not, I'll take us.
Think consop lies swam damped out to.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
My Totlan Dona burn.

Speaker 5 (30:17):
I count night, consupport stile on the inside, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:25):
Light dot com with it, don't be in, I don't
think some.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Harness.

Speaker 4 (30:35):
Why don't jum that body where up?

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Thing to abu thing tim harneys, don't know.

Speaker 5 (30:48):
What?

Speaker 4 (30:49):
Don't that where dat? Nothing too done.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
Also as a certain vimeo that Groff sent me in
the lead up to this episode, just a killer set closer.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Yeah, I was, I was. I was surprised going back
to this how for lack of a better term, jaw breakery.
It is hmmm like I was expecting not quite this,
I guess, so.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Were you expecting an even more like pop? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (31:59):
And I like I like the way more.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah like this song rocks Hoik Juice Magic is kind
of on the jawbreaker in and then you know this
album does go as far as like Holly Hawks Forget
Me Nots, which I think we're gonna talk on a second,
which is like, you know, if you were laying these
from one end of the musical extreme to the other,
Holly Hawks Forget Me Nots gets you like almost the
follow up boys.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
Yeah, I think that's pretty fair. Drew is probably really
mad at me for he's just like stewing, no.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
No, no, no, absolutely like this. This record went like again,
so spoiler Alert canceled down as the best Saves the
Day record, but through being cool, it's so good because
it's different, but it also felt it feels natural because
it doesn't. It doesn't sound. It's a lot harder to
put your thumb on what it is and and any
of those influences, you know, I think, like any good

(32:47):
genre band, the influences are immediate at first, and then
they disappear and you forget. You know, it's like trying
to remember a dream where you're like, I thought I
heard it, and then it's gone and then you don't remember,
and then it's just like this song and the first
the First Saves the Day record is not that. The
First Saves the Day Record is just unabashed Lifetime Worship.
We used to laugh because their bio on their website

(33:07):
or wherever it said is it's like we have a
variety of influences from like the Police to Dagnasty, the
Lifetime and something else. It's like, no, no, no, your
influences are lifetime, like it's the beginning in the end.
But this record and it's very transitional, I think in
that it doesn't have an obvious sound like that, and
the songs are a bit slower and they're rockier and
that like that guitar in that in that intro to

(33:28):
to Rocks, Tonic Juice, Magic, whatever it is, is like
it's chunky, like that's it's it's thick right, Like it's not.
It's not as especially even and stay what you are
when the guitar is like way more like a lily,
skinnier and way just waste a lot easier to kind
of wrap your head around and a lot easier to digest.
Like that's it's still like a rock and thing and
and I really think that's what it is. It added

(33:50):
a rock element that that is easy to skip when
you're doing like a genre band, if you're doing a
lifetime band or a lot of hardcore. You're you're on
tour and you're playing you know, bass and VFW halls
and whatever, you're not. It's it's a it's a bold
step to incorporate that rock thing. But this is a
band that had this crazy like you know rise and
it just felt really natural and it makes sense. And

(34:11):
you know you talk about that Holly Hawks Forget Me Not.
Its like there's that little guitary thing that's underneath the
chorus that is like it's that's like like a leveling up, right,
Like that's not in a that's not on a Lifetime record,
That's not on any of these other records. It's not
a you know the patentid Blink wenty too, like one
finger guitar solo. It's none of that stuff, right, It's
it's just really really good songwritery stuff. And in my

(34:32):
research for the show today, I was reading an interview
when he was they were talking about the producer kind
of I think it was Steve Evats was the producer
for that. Yeah, and he and he was like or
somebody said like, oh, we should try this, and they
did it, and then they all just kind of looked
at each other like, well, this is gonna be different,
and but they knew that they were onto something ridiculous
like that, that's such a good catchy song, and that
that little bit of like that kind of octave guitar

(34:55):
part in holly Hawks Forget Me Nots is just it's
unreal and it's not like the record before, and it's
not even not much like the records that came after.
But it just really worked and it really fit. And
I think that this this record found a huge audience
because it deserved it.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
This is a spoiler for the ranking segment and not
surprising to listeners. I'm sure given where the rest of
my tastes lie, but holly Hawks Forget Me Not is
my favorite save sing song, and this is that.

Speaker 4 (35:41):
Stuts of water.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Maybe you could buy the.

Speaker 4 (35:44):
Horn that you read God.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Never to both those points, I have a couple of
Chris Conley quotes about both that song we just listened
to and also their influences. So we'll get in. Chris

(36:54):
Conley told Rolling Stone I believe in a retrospective about
this album. Regarding going to a more rock sound, as
Drew put it, he said, it wasn't like we made
a conscious choice to change. I think that was just
my taste evolving, but there was always a hard edge
to save the day. That's just reflection of coming up
in New Jersey and New York. We love bands like Lifetime,

(37:14):
There you go, Gorilla Biscuits and Bouncing Souls. Their album
Maniacal Laughter is all over Through Being Cool. We could
absolutely do a Maniacal Laughter episode, but that's in our story,
he said. When we were touring the Earth, when we
were touring the Yeah, I mean sure, I'll talk about
Bouncing Souls all day, he said. When we were touring
in the early days between ninety seven and ninety eight,
there were two seminal records that had come out. One

(37:35):
was Foo Fighter's Color in the Shape and the other
was Refused The Shape of Punk to Come. Those two
records were on repeat in the van and really worm
their way into our hearts and heads. When we went
to record it, we just tried to match those tones
and the aggressive energy of those albums, even though we
were just kids from New Jersey throwing some Jawbreaker and
Pinkerton and you've got the cocktail that is through being Cool,

(37:56):
And I think that sort of lines up pretty much
exactly with what Drew was saying about the rock Edge,
especially if you want to take like those old Foo
Fighter songs and combine them Refused and Jawbreaker, that is
kind of this record in a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, and the Pinkerton. The Pinkerton kind of sprinkle in
references a good one too, because it's like, you know,
obviously Weezer went the way they did, but if you
go back and listen to that, it's like, it's not
it wouldn't be that hard to see a less commercially
inclined Weezer or Weezer who like enjoyed making that kind
of stuff a little more going this kind of route.

(38:33):
And then I think they borrowed like the exact right
stuff that made that work in terms of creating these
melodies that were you know, still I don't want to
say challenging, but like a little better musically than some
of their contemporaries.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, I think that's true. And regarding Holly Hawks, I
think this is actually the quote that Drew was talking
about that he read. Holly Hawks was also Chris Conley's
favorite song by Saves the Day. He said, it's my favorite.
I remember the first time I played it in my
mind ELM's basement. Brian Newmanner, old drummer. Brian and I
went to n YU together. Then we would go back
to Princeton on the weekends to see his family and friends.

(39:06):
It looked so exciting to play just the two of
us coming up with that one powerful riff was just
really thrilling. Then we added everyone in the band, it
got really heavy, but so melodic and fun. Our producer
Steve Evats, had this really cool idea to add an
octave guitar over the chorus, and all of a sudden,
that gave the song an extra dimension that felt like
the Jackson five. It's a stretch, but he said when

(39:28):
we all when we all heard it in the studio,
we all just looked at each other, just wide eyed,
and we just knew that something great was about to happen.
That song was the main reason why Brian and I
decided to defer at NYU and just tour the album.
So without that song, perhaps there's no later saves the day.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
You're right, that Jackson five that's a bit of a stretch,
but like that riff is got, it's like a groove right,
like you could see him like, yeah, can you can
imagine someone playing that bit on that part of the
guitar and like bobbing your head, you know, like an
old man. And then the guitar stenter who's just like
playing you know, an old a riff like it's got
a it's a there's a groove to it that you
don't get in in a lifetime song or in a

(40:08):
hardcore song. And if you listen to to Cancelo down,
it's not there. Uh and and but it works, right,
it works because the energy and all that everything else
that combines it's beautiful. It's great song. Not the best
song on the record, but a good song indeed.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
So yeah, we can talk about that a little bit, Jake,
I mentioned favorites, and you also mentioned favorites. We there
is a connection here between two of my favorites in
that the movie that I will go to bat for
more from this era than any other is Can't Hardly Wait.
And there is a Saves the Day there surely Wait

(40:44):
connection you have for us, I believe.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yes, indeed, so Saves the Day filmed a music video
for the song Shoulder to the Wheel from Through Being Cool,
and there's a there is a weird sort of non
controversy surrounding it, and also just some it's just a
weird kind of quote story here. So they made the

(41:06):
music video, and on their Wikipedia there apparently used to
be an entry on it saying the band regretted making
the music video. However, in that Rolling Stone piece that
I was just reading from, Chris Conley was asked about
this and he said, no, not at all. What I
have no memory of feeling regret about that. I don't
know where that started, but at least it can stop now.

(41:28):
On the record regarding the video, he said, can't hardly wait.
Was the inspiration for the video, believe it or not.
We had the VHF tape and we would watch it
in the van. Somebody ad Equal Vision knew the director
who did the Blink Oney two video for Damn It,
so he flew out and he had the idea of
driving us around town looking for this house party and
picking up these random people and at the end saves
the day plays the house party. We got up really early.

(41:50):
There was still snow on the driveway when we started filming.
We invited a bunch of our friends from the New
Jersey punk scene. Shot it all in one day at
our guitarist David's house, and we could have made a
movie about the video shoot alone. However, in the Wired
oral history piece I was reading from earlier, Conley also said,
I remember the director going here, sit in the front
seat of this old volkswagon. We're just going to have

(42:12):
you lean your head against the window and look sad
and I'm like, this is really uncomfortable. And Newman followed
it up by saying the band hated the video as
soon as they saw it, so it's on the record.
Both it doesn't matter what's true, but it is kind
of odd that they have this thought about it. Also
odd that they made a music favoite at all in
my opinion, and odder that it's based on Can Hardly Wait.

(42:35):
But it sort of works for nineteen ninety nine.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
The only regrets they could really have is that they
didn't go all the way they half asked it. Look
at Jimmy World, look at the video for the middle.
If you're going to put teenagers in a house at
a party, you put them in your underwear and then
you're rich like that. Jimmy World knew what to do
save to day. They didn't have the guts.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
Say Jimmy World also had the hook on the middle there.
It made some some dollars too.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
I think, well yeah, but like there's teenagers in their underwear,
like that's the next time that doesn't work will be
the first.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
How much could Ethan Embry really have costed for a cameo?

Speaker 2 (43:09):
I mean, yeah, fair enough, that's fair. Anyway, that videos
was actually my first exposure to saves the day. If
we're talking personal connection, that's one of those videos that's
like if you played me the video, I would know
the video way before I knew the song kind of thing.
It's just like, as we've talked before, whether it was
you know, the Wedge or punk show or even just

(43:30):
like late night nineties much music. That video is sort
of like, okay, I remember this now, and anyway, here's
the song that the video did. Shoulder to the Wheel.

Speaker 5 (44:00):
Is Dave this tribe get us his bad bombing me,
get us away from to night.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
I say, I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 (44:10):
To get the very way try damn song.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
We'll get over offense.

Speaker 4 (44:25):
Get Mainway.

Speaker 5 (44:30):
Radio playing Queen way back, way.

Speaker 4 (44:42):
Way back.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I love a pop punk bass riff, which that song
hasn't spades. Anyway, there is another odd connection uh with
this album, and that's also sort of brought as Drew
was kind of talking with their clothes. Brought a bit
of controversy to the band, which is the album cover,
which famously has them sitting on the couch as the

(45:10):
house party rages behind them. Chris Conley said that Brian
and David went to school for photography, and I went
along with whatever the artwork was because I have no
idea what to do about art. The band just had
their friends over for a house party and shot photos
for it. The album cover is going to be this
glossy image of the band, and we want to tell
some story in the layout. The only reason I want
to bring this up so I think this is funny.

(45:32):
One of Pete Wentz's best friends, gave supporta who also
is the Basis in Midtown, is on the cover at
the house party. I only bring this up because Gabe Support.
It's hold Wired on the CD is a photo of
me kissing my girlfriend from college. One of the other
kids on that cover is an actor. Now that actor
is James Ranson, better known as Ziggy Sabotka from the Wire.

(45:54):
He's the guy on the couch passed out so Ziggy
SBAKA on the cover of Through Being Cool, which I
thought was funny. The label hated the album cover. The
head of Equivision Records said that he felt it wasn't
the right impression for the band, and Newman said, as
soon as the cover came out, I was like, fuck,
I wish we hadn't have done that, But now it's

(46:14):
super iconic, So who knows.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
I do think it's iconic. I think it's great. You know,
it's such a it's such a of I mean, on
the one hand of the time in terms of like everyone,
I don't know what kids do now, but like I
have been to dozens of places that look just like that,
because you know, I was so popular and had so

(46:36):
many friends, but you know that whole like I'm here,
but I'm not really here aspect to it.

Speaker 6 (46:45):
You know.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
I think, you know, that's a cover that fits well
with like any of those coming of age late nineties
early two thousands comedies that we've talked about, you know,
through our Blink episodes or Followed Boy episodes or whatever.
Jimmy World was another big one. So I think it
fits and I'm going to go look at that album
cover for Ziggy while we take a break, and when

(47:09):
we come back, we're gonna talk about how this album
was received, and we're gonna let Drew loose for his
hot saves the day takes coming up after this.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
The tour and promotion for Through Being Cool was first
tour was with Snapcase and Kid Dynamite. Kid Dynamite a
band that I always used to get confused with Comeback Kid,
even though I had a Kid Dynamite t shirt from
one of my friends when I was younger. They played
a record release show with the Get Up Kids at
the Drive In and Midtown, which, damn that would have

(47:51):
been a good show. They went on a full North
American tour in two thousand, where they got in a
very serious van crash that they've said almost ended their
but they soldiered on, rejoining the tour in Seattle. By
the time the first tour for Through Being Cool had ended,
the album had sold nearly fifty thousand copies, which for
Equivision Records was a massive amount. Through that success, they

(48:15):
then signed to Vagrant Records, which of course came with
the accusations of selling out. However, Chris Conley told Rolling
Stone that I don't think there was much DIY backlash
from our scene. They'd say we slowed down, but not
much else. I don't think anybody had that kind of
scope at the time to be able to know something
big was happening. We would drive down to Florida for
shows and the band that would open was Newfound Glory.

(48:36):
They became your friends, and the next time you went
down there, you'd meet their friends, like Dashboard Confessional. Then
you went out to the Midwest and you'd be on
a bill with Alkaline Trio, and then you'd join them
on tour with face to face. There was never a
focus on the finish line or mainstream success. The reason
the emo in pop punk world thrived is that it
was real people all doing things they loved and telling
their friends. It was relatively well received at the time.

(49:00):
All Music's Vincent Jeffries gave it a three out of five,
saying the songs have issues with being too obvious, sappy,
or both, but Conley pulls it together with plain spoken honesty.
It also has a three out of five from Punk News,
which praised the band for finding their sound after just
trying to sound like Lifetime. The real lasting reviews. I
would say are more retrospective and its legacy. In a

(49:24):
retropective article for Brooklyn Vegan, Andrew Satcher wrote, if you
never heard Through Being Cool before, it might not be
immediately clear from a first listen in twenty nineteen why
it's so important. If it sounds a little too regular,
it's because the influence became so widespread. If the lyrics
sound a little juvenile, it's because Chris had literally just
graduated high school when he wrote them. If high school

(49:45):
is very far in your rearview, the album might not
be for you. They'll Stay what you Are in reverie
might be. It's not saves the day's best record in brackets,
that would be Stay what You Are, which strives the
perfect middle ground between where they stirred and where they
ended up, but does remain their most classic, the most important,
and possibly still the most influential to that point. N

(50:05):
Emmy listed Through Being Cool as one of the twenty
pop punk albums which will make you nostalgic, which is
a weird name for realistical. BuzzFeed put it at number
five on their top thirty six pop punk albums to
Hear before you Die list, and Patrick Stump put it
at number ten of ten albums that changed his life
and said that he would not have been in follow
up Boy if not for the album, which you can

(50:27):
either say is a good thing or a bad thing,
depending on your tastes. Stereo Gum also listed Rocks Tonic
Juice Magic as one of the thirty essential songs from
the Golden Era of Emo and Saves the Day. Before
we get into our little debate section, I'll just say
that Save the Day remain active today, tons of lineup changes.
They have twenty three total musicians listed on their Wikipedia page.

(50:49):
They released Stay What You Are in two thousand and one,
in Reverie in two thousand and three, Sound the Alarm
in two thousand and six, Under the Boards in two
thousand and seven, Daybreak in twenty eleven, a self titled
record in thirteen at nine twenty eighteen. The number not
spelled out, so it's not the same as Linkway two record.
And they sound like this today. This is a song
called Rendezvous, Creamber before the Fall.

Speaker 6 (51:18):
It was the summer before nine hundred, Parking Lave Sadie.

Speaker 4 (51:23):
One.

Speaker 6 (51:23):
Songs in road are International Talk, Coffee in Ampstead, Damn
Walk in the Crescent, Move castles in English, saying running
the light stage are the long play, get up in
grab argit, size in basement, send back Yah and singing
together under the scene.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
Such a beautiful who. Life is beauty.

Speaker 5 (51:45):
Sometimes it's all thank you that one hell but look
to YOA. Let's later your rabb Let's together till the future,
Santi side.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
A, sad and Susjake.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
You have no idea how upset I was when I
saw your run sheet and it did not include at
your Funeral in the post album.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
I debated it, but I felt that there's so many
goddamn Saved the Day records. Let's just say what they
sound like most recently, which is aggressively fine.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
I have not really listened to, like, I have not
gone deep on anything since Reverie in two thousand and three.
True did you? Did you kind of stick with them throughout?

Speaker 5 (52:52):
Do you do?

Speaker 1 (52:52):
Are you familiar with any of the newer stuff or
is this like like stay what you are or Reverie
is where you cut off?

Speaker 3 (52:58):
Oh no, I have I put on at your funeral
in the car the other day, and I realized that
I've probably heard that song five times in my life.
I didn't even stay with them through, stay what you
are at all. So this band blew up right like
right in front of me and like under my feet

(53:18):
in a way that I especially now support. But let's
I'm going to take you through like a little bit
of a timeline in terms of like my experience is
watching Saves the Day. So, as I mentioned, I saw
them in probably nineteen ninety nine at the Blue or
Jewish Community Center on the floor with a hardcore band,
incredible show. The next time I saw them, I think
might have been a year or so later, they were

(53:39):
on towards H two OH, which is like a New
York hardcore cause play band that fronted by now canceled
Tobe Morse. H two O was they used to play
like one hundred and eighty shows a year. H two O,
which just like toured and toured and toured, and they
were on Epithaph and they they got as big as
they could, but they so they took a Saves the
Day on tour and I saw so I saw them

(54:00):
at the Opera House. So now that's a pretty big
step up from in terms of venues. And then the
next time I saw them was in two thousand and one.
I saw them at Crazy Fest in Louisville, Kentucky, where
they were one of the headliners on Sunday. So Crazy
Fest was like a hardcore festival that was put on
by Initial Records back initially back in those late nineties,

(54:23):
so I think this was might have been the fourth
year of Crazy Fest, and so it was like a
big deal as a hardcore festival in that it was
outside and they were like maybe fifteen hundred kids there
or two thousand kids, I don't know, and the Saturday
night was like lots of heavy bands, but bands that
all the bands that I loved at the time. It
was like just perfect. That's why we got in the
car and drove all the way to goddamn Kentucky to
go to a fest. And then it was saved the

(54:45):
day and Dashboard played on Sunday and I was, without
I'm not ashamed to tell you, way too fucking cool
to watch these bands in this setting, Like it was
really awkward and like for me because the whole thing
about them being like hardcore kids and like playing for
hardcore kids, the crowd at this show wasn't and it
was very evident to me, and I was like, Okay,

(55:07):
they were moving on to something else now, and like
I was judging the kids around me because I was
twenty one and like knew everything that there was to
be known in the world, and I was just like, yeah, no,
this is not I'm not really into this anymore. The
dashboard set was one of the worst things I've ever
seen in my life. There were some kid crying. The
kid this kid is crying washing dashboard in it was
it Chris Krabb. No, Chris Grabb. It was like, what
are you crying for?

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Dude, like called him back because the guy was it
was it Blake.

Speaker 3 (55:31):
No, I don't know who it was, but it might
have been you, might have been might have been you,
and well it just it just the vibe was different,
right they were they were blowing up and moving on,
and it was like, oh cool, okay, next time I
stuff saves. The day was opening for Weezer at the
Bell Center in Montreal like a year later, where I
drove from Toronto and my friends. She was a going
to school at dal and she wanted to go see Weezer,

(55:51):
so it was like, Okay, well you don't have I'm
I'm the anti jakin that you don't have to ask
me twice to get me to go to Montreal. So
off I went, and we went and we and I
saw Saves the Day and in a hockey arena. Right,
this is a band that like two years before I
saw in a Jewish community and now they're playing in
a hockey arena. I'm like, this is cool. I think
that's that's probably going to be it for me, just

(56:12):
because I was very much into like the Saturday lineup
at crazy Fest, which is like metal, gore bands and
heavier bands, and and just you know, they had gone
in a direction which again I especially now support what
they were up to, but it just wasn't for me anymore.
The vibe was so different and I was looking for
heavier stuff. And then eventually I moved overseas, so I

(56:32):
couldn't really go see States to Day anyway for a
couple of years. But the point is that that was
like the trajectory. They didn't tour Cross in Flames in
Korea nice, and I saw lots of Korean hardcore bands.
We used to go to Korean hardcore shows all the time,
which was awesome. But my friends had been there the
year before they got to see Envy in Seoul, which
was it changed all It changed all of our lives

(56:53):
quite literally because they all came back and they had
like armloads of ENVCD records and they were like CDs.
They're CDs, so they're not records. They were like thrust
them at us like holy shit, this fucking band and
it like it blew all of our minds.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
But yeah, so that was were there.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
I was there for about fourteen to fifteen months, and
then I traveled like bummed around Southeast Asia for a
while after that, just like Thailand and Cambodia and Singapore.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Uneric teams bringing hardcore to the uh Soul.

Speaker 3 (57:19):
There was a huge and vibrant hardcore scene in Soeul,
and it was great and they accepted. I got really
lucky because I mentioned my friends had been there before
and they had kind of got connected with some of
the hardcore kids, the Korean hardcore kids, so you know
a few of which may have you know, spent some
time in the US and like brought records back and
T shirts. They were like all these hardcore kids and
so because we were well we were like the only

(57:41):
foreigners that most of these shows, and we were we
were we were hardcore kids. We would show up in
like Baine shirts and Shai halued shirts and whatever else,
and then they would like we would hang out with
them after all these hardcore kids. Everyone would go play
these shows and we would all go eat and drink
like you know Korean ship, like sitting on the floor
getting blind drunk drink and sold you. They weren't they
weren't straight edge kids, and but it was great. The

(58:01):
scene was. It was super vibrant. There were tons of
really good bands. Some bands were like tough guy bands
that they all have them sound like mad Ball. A
bunch of them sounded like poison the Well with the
Time of my Life. But that's separation. So when I
was gone, that's when like that's when like State wur
came out and then they were like this like TV
band and and I was like, oh, okay, that's that's cool.
I came back and back to North America and I

(58:22):
was like, still, you know, looking to be part of
going to shows, and there were different bands and saves
that they just kind of wasn't really on my radar anymore.
Bless them for for continuing to crank the stuff out.
But then as I go back and listen to it
a little bit, I'm like, oh my gosh, I really
don't like this. It's really, really, really bad. He changed
his completely changed his vocal style, and I was.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Like, whoa, right, but at your funeral is like a
Yellow Card song? And you like Yellow Card a lot,
don't you? Yes, of course, I'm just curious where the
line because like this came up. We did.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Yeah, Sarah Finley won mate us tell both of you,
and that was screaming that we were not crediting her
Andrew for being Yellow Card fans when I said they
were a blake band.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
But this is, uh, it's surprising that like even going
like I guess, I guess what's surprising is that either
somehow you like Yellow Card cut through to you when
Stay what you Are wasn't, or you've gone back to
those and for whatever reason you like Yellow Card but
not Stay what you Are. And I wonder how much
of that is like maybe your anchor point for saves

(59:29):
the day originally, or you just really love the violin,
or I don't know what's going on.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
I wish I knew it was. It was a little
bit jarring to have been that that been such a
big part of my life, like going to hardcore shows
and like and like, you know, we would drive, we went,
I went to Hellfest and Syracuse, we went to Crazy
Fast White friends were in bands. We would go to
Buffalo to see you know, Elliott and the Promise Ring
and like and you know that was that was just
a big part of who I was. And then to

(59:55):
go away and come back and have that world have
like exploded. And then I come and I come and
I'm sitting on my parents couch and then I turned
much music on and there's the Atari's on TV. And
I was like, what the fuck is going on? And
and and so but so boys a summer, buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Well it is a huge they they do it, you know,
got to change it up. Well.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
One of the things that happened also was that all
the second wave, the Baysides and and and say anythings
and follow up by all that stuff completely missed me
because to me, it sounded like a like a xerox
of a xerox of a xerox, you know, like I
liked like I liked Staves a day because they sounded
like lifetime and I kind of was with them for
a bit of the ride. And then they changed, and
then there was like an army of bands that just

(01:00:38):
like were copying what I knew to be a copy.
So I was like, yeah, no, this is not I'm
not gonna do this. I'm I like these other bands
that are shittier and metalier and will be gone in
six months. But like it just it just sort of
missed me, except for Yellow Card for whatever reason, because
as I mentioned previously, I kind of came up through
like that southern California, like no effects, fat rec sound,

(01:01:01):
and Yellow Card did that, but they did it in
a really fun way. And also the hook in Ocean
Avenue is like enormous, like bigger than the whole world.
So you can't fault me for getting caught in that net.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Oh I don't follow you it up. I called them,
and you're gonna you're gonna hate this. I called them
the Paul George of pop punk, where like everyone agrees
that they're good, but they don't have stands. Like Paul
George is the only NBA player without stands. There are
Davis Burton's stands and Aaron Bains stands on NBA Twitter,
and there are no Paul George stands. Uh. Anyway, so

(01:01:31):
I apologize to you and Sarah Finley for not appropriately
identifying that you guys are the lone. Paul George stands.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
If I may I play ball in Paul George two
and a half. So there you go, Yes, that that
came up on the shoes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
Well that yeah, he has a he has a very
comfortable basketball shoe that is wasted on Paul George. Apologies
the Paul George. Anyway, we got to do some ranking
here and let Drew fire office hot take.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
It's done.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
I would probably on my side argue that Through being
Cool is the correct choice as kind of like the
iconic album from Saves Today. I think, like in our
discussion about just like how well whether you like that
it did this and the bands that fallow or not,
just like how well it bridges eras of stuff that

(01:02:26):
sounds or is influenced by this same kind of stuff.
I personally had more of a connection to say what
you are because at your funerals my first introduction to them.
I don't have a strong take on which of those
is the better album, But Drew, I know you have
a strong take on what the best Saves to Day
album is. You mentioned it earlier, so refresh us here
and give us.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
The why Cancel It Down is the best Saves the
Day album, and that is the one that I like
the most. I just love the songs so insanely much.
It has They mentioned Gorilla Biscuits because the opening riff
of the record of Undecided is a flagrant ripoff of

(01:03:04):
Gorilla Biscuits. Uh the for the first rip for New Direction,
which is an iconic hardcore song on on on an
iconic hardcore record, they have no qualms in ripping off
that same like and but it works so well. The
record is so fun to sing along. I love the
songs on Cancel Down so much. I love that it

(01:03:24):
has that melodic hardcore energy. I I really do like
through being cool, I do, But the dirty secret is
through being cool and it's one of something I joked
about one of my friends in one of my like
retired hardcore guy group chats, was we were talking about
those those Saves the Day shows where they play through
being cool from start to finish. Is you can leave
after the fifth song. That's like the don't you don't

(01:03:45):
not supposed to say that out loud, but once Holly
Hawk's fery gets me not its is done. It's like peace,
I'm going home, I'm gonna beat the traffic. Because the
second half of it has got some good songs, but
they're they're forgettable, while the first five songs and Through
Being Cool are like unbelievable. But I don't think it's
as strong and it doesn't have the same finisher as
Cancel It Down, which has Josie, which is Jody, which

(01:04:06):
is like unreal, just such an amazing, fun, powerful song
that they play sometimes but not all the time, which
is kind of neat because it has such a big,
like finish, big, cheesy, kind of almost corny over the top,
but you can kind of see that they love. There's
that rock element, there's that let's put on a bit
of a show and have some fun. And that's why

(01:04:26):
I think Cancel It Down is better. And I love
the way it sounds. It's produced really well and it
just hit me at the right time, in the right place. Bain.
In honor of doing this, I put on like one
of my oldest Bine Hoodies, my favorite band of all time,
and they just they they played so well together and
it's just like h just the right time, the right place,
the right record and uh, if you and again watch

(01:04:47):
that set, watch that hate five set six set from
twenty sixteen and blow your mind.

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Also the vimeo you sent me, that's the one. That's
the one they're set from. Two oh that that is
the one.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Okay, that's the one. So that's that's So it's interesting
because as I mentioned off the top that heighty five six,
there's two saves a day sets because they do that
thing where they just can show up and play a
hardcore show and have everybody welcome them. So they did
that in twenty sixteen, and it was very last minute.
So the band toured and toured and toured, and they
were a hardcore band, and they were kind of they
almost like to fide they were just a hardcore band.

(01:05:17):
You couldn't really slop them into. They weren't a medicore band.
They didn't have lots of big breakdowns, they weren't as
heavy as some of the bands. But they weren't a
pop band. They were just a band that people really liked,
and Baine became something that was more than a band.
And I think I'm emblematic at that. My friends and
I attached ourselves to this band and it sort of
like carried us through later parts of our life where
we would always just go to Bain shows even though
maybe didn't love the Last Band record, maybe didn't love

(01:05:38):
the run that came before, but there was just something
about going to see those shows. So because they had
this relationship with Saves to Day, there was a band
that dropped off that Last Band show, which was something
they spent two years building up to this show. So
Terror dropped off and then they just said, hey, Chris,
do you guys want to come play? And he was
like yep. And they played, and I swear it's like
nine songs, nine songs the set, but again they played

(01:06:00):
only songs from those first two records. And the sound,
because it's Sonny saying eighty five six is just like
there's a bit of there's a bit of board sound
and a bit of like the mic that might be
on the camera, so there's a ton of crowd in
it and it is like nothing I've ever heard in
my life, and I've been to a million shows like that.
But like the sound is the when they play the

(01:06:22):
it's called Undeciding. It's the first song on can Slow
Down and the second song they played is You Vandal,
which is the second song on on Through Being Cool,
which is my favorite song, and it's it's way faster
than the rest. It sounds a little bit out of
place with that record, but that gets to the chorus
and to like coin like a wrestling term again, it's
like a nuclear pop like it is. It explodes the
roof off of the building because there's like two thousand

(01:06:44):
people there and they're having the absolute time of their lives,
screaming the chorus back at him. The guys in the
band again, the other guys. They're not like hardcore kids anymore.
The band has been through so much. They're just playing
and they're having the time. They're doing their job essentially.
Chris is like, there's no security, no, so the show
is like twenty five minutes long, and if there's three
hundred stage dives', there's not one. Like there's so just

(01:07:07):
constant stage dives, constant sing alongs. He's having a great time.
Everybody there is playing having a great time. At one
point in the set, he turns to Zach, who's a
guitar player from Bain, and he's like, how much time
we have left? And he's like, you can play for
as long as you fucking want, like, just keep going.
But they only played like three more songs. It's just
the most beautiful video.

Speaker 4 (01:07:23):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
And then in twenty nineteen, they played at This is Hardcore,
which is a hardcore fest in Philadelphia every year, which
is like they always bring some of these older hardcore
bands that kind of come out and they have a
great matt mix and matchup like new and old, and
it's just tons of bands and it swells too often
there's a big reunion that'll be at the end of
the show, and this one year, it saves the same thing.
Everybody they're so excited to see them. They they know

(01:07:46):
what they're there for. Everybody who's watching those are they're
there for. They play they don't play at your funeral.
They play only the first two songs, and in fact,
they play like demo songs and they play like electric
versions of the songs off of I'm Sorry I'm Leaving,
and they just play and they so that set they
played a little bit too long, but the production is
almost too good in that there's not as much crowd

(01:08:07):
and it's left. I was a little bit disappointed because
that sound of those people in that venue in Worcester,
mass at that Bane show. It's just like the most
beautiful thing in the whole world watching everyone have the
time of their lives for thirty minutes, watching these weird
guys that sound like I don't know even how to
describe what they sound like. Now, you know. I listened

(01:08:27):
to a podcast called Astagrind and there's a guy Patrick
who's in the band Drug Church, and he's one of
the hosts of that show, and he talked about some
of the guys in his band listened to Saves the Day.
So my review is his review, which is it sounds
like they recorded this record in the van, like it's
so bad one of the late Saves the Day records.
And it's cool if kids go and buy them and
they go and play shows, awesome. But for them to

(01:08:48):
be able to show up and like play these hardcore shows,
it means a lot to me, and I hope it
means a lot to them.

Speaker 1 (01:08:53):
Drew. We are at the park in the podcast where
we have to pick a song from this album for
our mixtape. Columbia House Party has a living mixtape that
brings one song on from each episode, so we generally
defer to the guests there in terms of the song
that you think best represents this episode and the discussion

(01:09:13):
we've had, or your relationship to the album in question.
So we put it to you first. Jake has the
right to disagree, of course, But Drew, what song would
you put on the mixtape?

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
I want to put on You Vandal because it is
the song that I like the best, and I think
it's the best marriage of the two records that I
really like. If Jake wants to put on Holly Hawks
Forget Me Not, I will not have any qualms with
that because it is a really fun song and we've
talked about it a lot, and it really shows what
kind of the record is and was, and what the

(01:09:48):
band became on their like meteoric rise and then sort
of again, they're still out there. They're still playing and
grinding it, and it's because of the strength of songs
like that one. So if Jake wants to go with Hollyhawks,
I'm cool. You Vandal is the one that I would
pick because it's the one that means the most to me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
All Right, Jake, So as as good a argument as
good an argument rather Drew makes for Hollyhawks, Forget Me Nots,
Where do You Land? Are you okay with You Vandal?
Making the mixtape?

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
Yes, I usually defer to the guest, And while I
agree with all of Drew's points about the quote unquote
importance of Hollyhawks, both to the band and to the
genre as a whole, I like going with what means
stuff to the guests, because this whole show is about
what means stuff to us, and like, who really gives
a shit about the history outside of that, So let's

(01:10:39):
go with You Vandal.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
And You Vandal is also a part of that set
of the show that Drew was just talking about and
that he sent me the video of. So I'm going
to as soon as we're done go watch the first
couple songs of that set list so I can finish
it out, and the second song on it is You Vandal.
So looking forward to that. This is on top of
the part of the podcast where we add you to
the mixtape, be part of the podcast where we thank

(01:11:02):
producer Dylan. Thank you to Dylan for all his great
work making this podcast possible, and we want to thank
Drew Fairservice, who you can follow at Drew g r
F Drew Groff on Twitter. You can subscribe to his newsletter,
Vlad Religion at Fairservice dot substack dot com. Drew, thank
you so much, man. This was great and we're gonna

(01:11:23):
you were so well prepared and had so many great insights.
We're going to invite you back on like an annoying
number of times, especially if and when we can ever
get back to recording in person. To give you a
reason to come back into the city.

Speaker 3 (01:11:38):
Well, I'll have to pack a back from the region.
I'll pack a back. I live in the county. Excuse me,
you're from the region. It's absolutely my pleasure. I could
talk about this kind of stuff all day until I
die anytime, literally anytime. I'm happy to come on and
shoot the ship about good records and fun bands and

(01:11:59):
cold shows.

Speaker 1 (01:12:00):
All right, Well, we appreciate it, man, Please try to

(01:12:44):
fish