The 2000s: Limp Bizkit — Significant Other (w/ John Cullen)

In the latest episode of Columbia House Party, hosts Jake Goldsbie and Blake Murphy are joined by the self-proclaimed world's foremost analyst of nu metal, John Cullen (@cullenthecomic), to discuss the first album Jake ever purchased with his own money: Limp Bizkit's Significant Other. Consider this a Limp Bizkit podcast in general, though, as you know Blake wasn't going to try to discuss the connection of Fred Durst, My Way, and Rollin' to professional wrestling. Find out more about Durst's vision for Limp Bizkit at the outset, just how huge they got as the face of the turn-of-the-century nu metal movement, and what song from Significant Other our guest thinks is among the best of all time on this week's podcast.

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See you next week for another episode of CHP.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Do you want to catch the vibe that's keeping me alive?
Follow these fat ass beats until I die. Fill them
with tension, the sick dimension, rumble the Earth with our
latest episode of Columbia House Party. Jake, what's up Man?

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Not much? I was not what I was hoping for
as the lyric you're gonna choose because what I wanted
to choose technically isn't a lyric, but I respect it.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Did you want me to just like make a bunch
of turntable noises.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
And then say you want the worst, you got the worst?

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, well you do. If you wanted the worst, you
got the worst. We're talking about the band we're talking
about today. Let's go got a guest coming on who
knows new metal, maybe better than anyone in the world,
to help us through that, Jake, what do you have
for us this week?

Speaker 3 (01:11):
So?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
This album was not the first album I ever heard
by any means, or even a first favorite, but it
was the first album I bought with my own money.
I bought it from the depths of the super hip
music store music World at Yorkdale Mall when I was

(01:34):
ten years old, and I bought it because I had
heard the single, and I was like, you know what,
this is the feature of music. This is the music
I'm gonna like for my entire life because I'm ten
years old and I'm sad, and what better soundtrack is
there for an angry, sad ten year old than the

(01:55):
leader of angry sad ten year olds everywhere, an angry
sad ten year odd if there ever was one, Fred Durst.
So today we are talking limp Biscuits landmark album Significant Other.

Speaker 4 (02:27):
Do you want to get the bowels giving me alive?
When he's got a pa until or that you're the
same with the lawyer's men. Just watch the ground hole
your fin the getting again? Then we bring out back.
Can we make sure that you'd your damn bu.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
Bat grand when you look out?

Speaker 4 (02:51):
Yet you bring it on down and count You're like.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
So normally we wait for the guests to be introduced
before they get in on the podcast, but they were
singing along as the as just like this from Limpus
gets Significant Other, I was playing there. Today we are
joined for the second time by our pal comedian, curly
enthusiast and all around lovely man John Collin. John, what's

(03:51):
up man?

Speaker 5 (03:52):
Oh baby? When the Limp is playing, I can'tnot sing it.
You know, you know how it is. I thought it
is cool of you guys to bring me on for
Jake's first purchased record and not mine, because I don't
know if anyone wants the Columbia House Party Jock Jams
Volume one episode This isn't that different.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
John is an excellent stand up comedian who you can
follow at Cullen the Comic on Twitter, and you could
find his new comedy album Long Stories for No Reason
on Comedy Records wherever you get your music. He is
also the co host of Blocked Party and The pod Cast,
the world's foremost new metal podcast. So, of course, as
he told me over email and prepping for this episode

(04:36):
and quote, I might know more about this than almost
anyone on earth, this being new metal.

Speaker 5 (04:43):
Yeah, I mean I can definitely remember purchasing this album.
I told this story on the pod cast, which, for
those of you who can't guess from the name, is
a new metal podcast where we review a classic new
metal album every month, myself and Brian Quinby from street
Fight Radio. And I remember when I bought this album.
This was the first album I bought that had the
parental advisory sticker on the front.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, And it's.

Speaker 5 (05:05):
Like right in the middle too, Like it's not like
in the corner, like it's right beside the kind of
like drawing of the of the guy who I guess
is like ostensibly supposed to be Fred. I don't know,
he's got the red hat on or whatever. But I
remember being like petrified that my parents wouldn't let me
buy it because of this. So I remember taking it
up to the front and leaving my thumb over the

(05:27):
parental advisory sticker, and then and like as my mom
was kind of like walking to the checkout with me,
and then when I got to the checkout, flipping it
over really quickly. So like when I put it on
the desk, I put it a like reverse side up
so that my mom couldn't see that I had purchased
an album that had some swears on it.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Oh boy? And does it ever?

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Does it ever? The radio edit of the primary single
off this album.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
I will say, similar to you, my father discovered I
was listening to this album because I had seen the
music video for the song Nookie, which I did not
put in my notes for this episode because I don't
really want to talk about it. But I was singing
along to it in the house, and I will never
forget my dad just kind of turning to me and going,

(06:16):
what the what are you saying what? And he was
so mad at me. And then I was like, this
is the best band in the world.

Speaker 5 (06:24):
Yeah, I mean I had a similar So what I
used to do, let's get even more pathetic, is I
would tape the music videos off TV because I like
love nu metal and I didn't really listen to radio
or anything. So I would tape the music videos off TV,
and then to learn the lyrics, I would watch the
video and pause it after every sentence and write down

(06:45):
the lyrics. So then I would have my own lyrics
sheet and I could like learn the lyrics and sing
along to the music videos. And I left the lyrics
of Nookie just like laying in the house because I
didn't even know that nookie was like a euphemism for sex.
It never even occurred to me. So I had just
written all these lyrics down, you know, and then yeah,
just like I think, left them in a pile on
the coffee table or something. And then my mom was like,

(07:06):
so what, uh, you know, what's the song you're listening to,
you know, nookie, And I remember specifically she was like,
do you know what that is? And I was like,
I don't know, I don't know. And then I think
she just was kind of like okay, like as long
as I couldn't figure out what it meant, then it
was fine.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
I am still unclear on how one sticks nookie up there.

Speaker 5 (07:25):
Yeah, well, I mean me too, me too. I mean
I have some ideas, like so, I don't know if
you guys know the story this is, uh so, this
is very strange. So when Significant Other came out, he
did an interview a Spin and he talked about how
most of the songs on this record are it's like
a breakup album, hence the title significant Other, and he

(07:47):
blames so the girl that it's about, or the woman
that it's about. He I guess she cheated on him.
And he blames her cheating on him because she's bisexual,
because that's like a thing you could just say in
nineteen ninety nine, right, So he was just like yeah,
he literally says in this Spin profile, like yeah, my
ex was bisexual and she just wanted to have sex

(08:09):
with everyone, and like you can't trust a girl like
that kind of thing, and it's very funny to read.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
This is this album for me, in this band for
me really Like I don't mean to like make it
seem like fred Durst is like the problem in his
own but like the it's it's just so nineteen ninety
nine that like that is a thing in this interview
and like just what they're singing about on this album.
And also like there's a clip where I don't know

(08:37):
if I want to give this what I was gonna
use it as a joke later, but I'm going to
use it as a serious thing now. In the movie
Paully Shore Is Dead, there is a great bit because
Fred Durst and Pauly Shore became friends, and Pauli Shorre
was obviously in the Breakstop video and I think he
was in a couple of videos actually. Anyway, there's this
great bit where Fred Durst sees poly Shore on the
street and like stops him and is like, hey, like
I was wondering if you check out my band and

(08:59):
Paul Shore in a bad place. He smashes the CD
and makes fun of him, calls him Fred Flintstone and stuff,
and fred Durst yells, we're gonna blow up one of
these days, bro, and I never put you in a video.
And then as he's walking away, he just like yells
a homophobic slur, and it's like, now, obviously that is
like so it's gross, and it's so stupid that that

(09:20):
is like a thing that you could say, but it's
just like it very much fits the where Limp Biscuit
fits in my head, and like you know, kind of
like edge Lord, preteen fan base and butt rock in general.
And I think also part of that is that because
I associate Lympiskat, like most of my Limp Biscuit association

(09:40):
is tied to my teenage wrestling fandom. So like this
album is the soundtrack to me and my friend Nick
Gavel putting on wrestling matches in my unfinished basement, or
like playing WWF No Mercy on N sixty four, like
this is what we had on it and my friend
Nick Gavill like dressed like the person like the cover

(10:02):
art of this album, Like like the fact that red
backwards Yankees hats were a thing, even though Fred Durst
wore them with Celtics jerseys, which is a whole other
issue to unpack anyway, So those are my associations to
this album. We're going to talk about significant other and
Limpus get and new metal as a whole, but mostly
just Fred Durst's opinions on him Biscuit after this. All right,

(10:40):
So I gave away how Limpus Gets started before the
break there. Obviously they started with the rejection of Paully Shore,
not the rejection of Fred Durst's ex girlfriend. But I
am going to hand the reins over to Jake and
John here. Jake, you've done the research for this episode.
And John, as you've said, nobody knows more about the
shit than you. So you guys, you guys, take it away.

(11:03):
I can't wait to just sit back and be a
listener of this podcast and support the podcast at patrion
dot com slash Columbia House Party because this is going
to be such a great discussion. Jake, take it away, man,
all right.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Limp Biscuit was formed after the dissolution of three bands
in the mid nineties that Fred Durst was a part
of Split twenty six, Malachi Sage and ten Foot Shindig.
Durst told Sam Rivers, who is the bass player for
Malachi Sage, you need to quit this band and start
a band with me that's like this rappin and rockin'.
That's an actual quote. Rivers then got his cousin John

(11:38):
Otto to join on drums. You'll see this theme a
lot with this band, which is actually kind of interesting.
And I know, John, you want to talk with this
how John Otto was classically trained in jazz and at
the time was playing in avant garde bands. Before playing
in Limp Biscuit. The three jammed and wrote some songs
together before being joined by Wes Borland on guitar, also
a topic of conversation. In a bit, Fred Dirt just

(12:00):
named the band limp Biscuit because he wanted to repel listeners.
To quote, he said, the name is there to turn
people's heads away. A lot of people pick up the
disc and go limp Biscuit. Oh, they must suck. Those
are the people we don't even want listening to our music,
which is so much in there. Other potential names for Limp.

Speaker 5 (12:21):
Biscuit as cool as fuck. I'll be honest, I think
that's cool as hell. I actively want people to not
listen to this, especially posers. That's who I don't want
to listen to this.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
Would you have preferred any of these four names that
were considered for limp Biscuit, Gimp Disco, split dick slit,
bitch piglet, or blood fart. See. Now here's the thing.

Speaker 5 (12:47):
I see, I don't believe Fred, and most of the
time I don't believe Fred anyway, But like, those four
names are all much worse than limp Biscuit as far
as like, if your sole goal is to turn people
away from your music, all four of those are much
more effective at that than limb Biscuit.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Especially split dick slit and blood fart. Although I will say,
as dumb as those names are, I would love to
live in a world where a band called split dick
Slit has sold millions of records. Yeah, so that would
be cool.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Am I to understand that a split dick slit is
like your p holes in two and you're peeing in
two different directions?

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Is that I think?

Speaker 3 (13:28):
So?

Speaker 2 (13:28):
Yeah? I think that is the medical definition. Oh I
thought the slit was like was like a slang term
for vagina, but it's a dick slit. Yeah, so I
think I think it would be the urethra.

Speaker 5 (13:43):
Okay, I mean sounds guys, we can spend I mean,
we could spend.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
The whole podcast talking about it. Look, there's gonna be
a lot of things in this episode that we could
talk about for nine exactly. So well that's the that's
the pod cast. Every episode of the podu cast is
two hours.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
When we're talking naming conventions, just be thankful we're doing
this straightforward, significant other and it's just some mild homophobia
and not chocolate starfish in the hot dog flavored water.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, well, well that's so.

Speaker 5 (14:09):
I mean, I can give you the story of that
if you want, or I can at least give you
the story that they gave. And that's really all you
can do when you're talking about limbs.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Is it like an augmented reality thing?

Speaker 5 (14:20):
I think it's just like, h it was a time
when like music journalism still mattered and you so you
had to like you know, where you would actually sit
down and be like, Okay, this is the answer we
have to give, or like, this is the thing we
have to say. Even if we're trying to be like
edgy and cool and whatever, like it has to be
within reason. We still have to say these specific things.

(14:42):
So you know, so I think that's what happens a
lot with Limbiscuit is like, they say really outlandish things,
but they're still it's still very controlled and they will
repeat the same things a lot like the they It's
not like, you know, they don't just shoot off, is
what I would say.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Yeah, I think that's probably a of Fred's entire career.

Speaker 5 (15:03):
Smartest guy to ever make music, By the way, we
can discuss that too if you want. I think Fred
Durst is the smartest man ever to make music. I
would like to discuss that.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
The band developed a cult following in the Jacksonville underground
music scene, which must be just an amazing place, particularly
at a bar called Milk Bar. They were so popular
in Jacksonville that Sugar Ray, who at the time had
already signed to a major label, were tapped to open
for them in Jacksonville and not the other way around.

(15:34):
In Colin Devinish's biography of the band, Milk Bar's owner
Danny Wimmer said that Limpiscit had the biggest draw for
a local band. They went from playing for ten people
to eight hundred within months. Fred was always marketing the band.
He would go to record stores and get people involved.
He was in touch with high schools, so John maybe
you're not so far off with your Fred Durrist. It's

(15:55):
a genius take. Now I'm not. I'm right, it's a
correct the right take. There is there is some crazy
There are some crazy marketing stories about this band from
the early days.

Speaker 5 (16:05):
Yeah, yeah, I mean their whole thing was like so
he so Brian, who I do pod cast with. He's
seven years older than me. So he like literally grew
up in the new metal Like he saw Corn playing clubs.
He saw limp Biscuit open for Corn at a club,
and they were like Fred was like notorious limb Biscuit
would open for Corn or open for a bigger band,

(16:26):
and then he would stand outside the venue and like
hawk demo tapes and try and just get like anyone
who would listen to him to listen to him. He
was like sort of a tattoo artist and then like
became better as a tattoo artist because he figured that
that would be a connection for him to like get
in with other bands. And that was how they were like,

(16:47):
I'm glad you bring that up because I wanted I.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Wanted to talk about Fred Durst as a tattoo artist.
So this is great.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Well, the three of us it's synergy. It is we're
so good at this. So the band apparently caught on
because of two things, well three things, I guess. One
is Fred Durst's marketing. Two was the fact that Wes
Moorland wore his insane costumes on stage and at the
time it was very weird. And three is that part
of their set was covers of Straight Up by Paul

(17:14):
Abdool and Faith by George Michael, which, as we all know,
became a huge hit, which we'll talk about in a minute.
So to your point, John, when Korn came to town
opening for Sick of It All, fred Durst persuaded Fieldy
to listen to their demo. He did so by talking
about his tattoos and his skill as a tattoo artist,
and to quote Fieldy, even though the tattoos weren't that good,

(17:37):
I listened to the band anyway. After basically begging this
guy to listen to his demo, Korn added Biscuit to
their next two tours, opening for them. The demo that
Durst played contained this song, which was later released on
their debut album and was an early favorite of Young Jake.
And that song is Counterfeit.

Speaker 6 (18:07):
Put out you were.

Speaker 3 (18:09):
A maskall kind of you.

Speaker 4 (18:11):
You were a mask putting me out.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
If you wear a mask or gut pricking me out,
you were a whole fuck.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Ray Man, wake up and smelled the kind of great stranger.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
Soe you change like the Yelpa. It could be a
dentity crisis. But I can't buy this beyond a device.
Plus that's what like this it for you give beha
God came kept taking a the paper on official mind
saking out the new Transca. When you finished, were make
it like that half thinking then jump twos now on
my no school sell jump with the float and the dancer.

(18:54):
Want to change yourself because you send me yourself back
jump jolt.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Like that wick me that you.

Speaker 4 (19:10):
Black, jump up, counter back.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
It's not what's starting to change.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
You want to rearrange your lifestyle like a bunch the
ba ba bla you couldn't like and trying to be stop.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
I get my bunch to denied.

Speaker 6 (19:35):
You back back.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
I just have to say we've done some unlikely things
on this podcast with like resurrecting bands and stuff like that.
If somehow the makes it back to fifty year old
Fred Durst, there is no price too high for me to, like,
if you wanted to tattoo someone, I would. I would
love for Fred Durst to complete a patch of the

(20:12):
sleeves that I'm working on.

Speaker 5 (20:15):
I would love that too. He's a filmmaker now though Blake,
he's more serious.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
I just want Fred to tell me to fuck myself
for my takes and then cast me in his next movie.
That's you would have you guys watched The Fanatic? I
haven't yet, but I really want to. Oh don't, it's
so bad.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
That's the one with Travolta, Yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Devin Saw and Devin Sawa.

Speaker 5 (20:37):
Travolta plays this like, uh, I guess autistic fan of
Devin sawah uh, And Devin Sawa does not return his
you know, reciprocate his fandom. And there's a scene in
it where Devin SAWA's driving his car very fast with
his son in the back and limb Biscuit is playing
on the stereo and Devin Sawa says to his kid,

(20:58):
He's like, do you know who what band this is?
And the kids like no, He's like, this is Limbiscuit.
They were huge when I.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Was a kid.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
I have two thoughts on that. The first is that
I always have time for Devin Sawa. Yeah, one of
the best actors in our generations. And second, interesting that
Devin SAWA's career is now book ended with both sides
of the Stan artists Ford.

Speaker 5 (21:23):
Second, yeah, there you go. Movie just sounds probably how
that's probably how Fred got him. The funny The other
funny part about The Fanatic too, is that it's so bad,
and people asked, like John Travolta about why he agreed
to do it, and he said that he like met
Fred Durst a few times, and Fred's passion for the
movie was so great that he just like felt compelled
that like he had to do it. And apparently he

(21:44):
like didn't get paid that much, but he was just
like Fred had this vision for it that I just
couldn't shake. I just thought it was so cool or whatever.
And then but then the movie is like.

Speaker 2 (21:53):
Absolute garbage, and you're like, Okay, well, I don't know
how he ended up here.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
All right, Jake, we should probably talk about the album
a point.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
So, after getting on tour with Corn, the band discussed
adding a second guitarist, but Wes Borland deemed that unnecessary.
They then added DJ Lethal as turntablist and then shortly
after this, Wes Boreland left the band for the first time.
They would sign to Mojo Records shortly after this, after
catching the attention of producer Ross Robertson, who has produced

(22:22):
everything including the new two Shamoy record. After this, Borland
rejoined the band once again when they were recording three
Dollars Bill Y'all, their debut record. Ross Robinson did not
want the band to record their cover of Faith, but
has said he enjoyed the final recording and he and
Wes Borland bonded over the fact that Wes Borland did
not take Limp Biscuit seriously. Three Dollars Bill Y'all was

(22:44):
released in July nineteen ninety seven, and they embarked on
a tour with Korn and Metal Legends Helmet and according
to reviews, Korn and Limp Biscuit were not well received.
In a review for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, John M.
Gilbertson writes, attention grabbing moment of Limp Biscuits rap Thrash
Show was when the lead singer expressed a desire for

(23:06):
gay men to be stomped, which isn't remotely rebellious. It's
just puerile and my note is Yike's. They would also
tour with Faith No More, about which Faith No More
keyboardist Roddy Bottom said in two thousand and six that
guy fred Durst had a really bad attitude. He was
just kind of a jerk. I remember he called the
audience a homophobic slur at one show when they booed him.

(23:28):
Not a good scene to the marketing thing. Innerscope proposed
that the band pay five thousand dollars to a Portland
radio station to play Counterfeit fifty times, which was also
criticized as a payola scheme, which it absolutely is. Three dollars.
Billiy All was moderately to negatively received by critics, but
despite this, perhaps because of his marketing acumen, fred Durst

(23:51):
was named senior vice president of A and R at
Innerscope Records, which I did not know. They also played
the Warped Tour and the shared a stage with Penny Wise,
The Mighty Muddy Boss Tones, Sick of It All, lag Wagon,
and Blink one eighty two, which is quite a bill.

Speaker 4 (24:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Lim Biscuit was really good at getting on tours where
people hated them. That seems to be their entire strategy
for the first year of their career.

Speaker 5 (24:17):
Oh even later, Like I saw them in two thousand
and three opening for Metallica and people really didn't like it.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
They really didn't like it at all.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
It's kind of though, like it's like a pre modern
strategy where like all the biggest Twitter accounts are just
have a lot of followers because people like dunking on
how stupid they are.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
Totally so. While on the Warp tour, the cover of
Faith that Ross Robertson did not want to record became
a massive hit, partly thanks the music video of which
Fred Durst directed. Wes Boyland has said that George Michael
quotes hates us for doing that, which I hope is true.

(24:58):
Following the success of Faith and desire to prove they
weren't a Corn sound alike, which was a criticism leveled
against them, I guess, the band began work on their
follow up record, Significant Other. They approach Terry Date, who
has produced Pantera, White Zombie, and The Deftnes, to produce
the album, and in Limp Biscuits biography, Wes Mooreland said

(25:19):
of Date he doesn't get overly involved in the quote
music end of things. He's a producer who fools around
with sound and sonically makes everything perfect. He gets sounds
that translate really well on tape and pretty much completely
captures what we do perfectly. In the lead up to
the release of Significant Other, Freddur seemed to try to
distance himself and the band from the first record. He

(25:40):
told Kerrang at the time, our first record wasn't that good,
but Faith got really big, So everyone's waiting for this
record to be shitty so they can call us out
as one hit wonders, which I guess is a marketing plan.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
Also, also, are you a one hit wonder if your
one hit is someone else's song?

Speaker 2 (25:58):
I guess Tech Yeah, you definitely can. And for sure
Natalie Imbruglia, anybody, Yeah, there you go. On the record,
fred Durst and DJ Lethal decide to explore their hip
hop influences, reaching out to method Man to collaborate on
a song.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Fred Durst also record a song with Eminem that was
not released, and a song with System of a down
Surge tank In. But we are not talking about those songs.
We are talking about a song originally titled Shut the
Fuck Up, but was then retitled for marketing purposes. That
song is the only song on this album that I
will defend as being actually good, and that is end together.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
Now man the strand.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Spinning number of subways.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
I'm playing enough of bathing on the highways around joke.
Just PLoP snamps and brands, be like a bark. I'm
asking all the media strikes and keep the media dikes.
It's reinforcement for the fight and now alone will keep
your tidy on the phone, hang on in this on on,
I got the bees on the track better fuck you,
ask the.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Care out and hear your fishing from your mouth. Nosh,
fuck us.

Speaker 3 (27:14):
I'm plucking in them social skills to keep my Toto
bills that were pabellion the last time I checked it.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
Thank God, I'm blessed with.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
The mind that the record wait until the second round.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Knock him out.

Speaker 6 (27:23):
They call me big John Stutt my middle name. Mon
dirty water float too much for you thought they can't
stand in the flood, But up jock hole big hunt
like y'all with fuck the show, shot mix up mat
by month, plug lurk tip for just to hop the
shark clock n playing with mine to get you stay
timed lock behind twelve boss from a great mind, kill
a fish in the club with his lady. Bar brought

(27:44):
his sword to the dense floor to cut it. Brough
love it, flove fall he till they don't slug and
they take another lighting cold plug. He'll feel me till
it's show flood murder, raised a Mendos criming thend List,
same shit, different days. Foster Forgibbs say no not what
they do or praises good I'm big like Eaz, give
Big bad four a little loud and stuck up everybody

(28:06):
in the othernet. It was so be your head, oh
day every day, Yes guy? And why one O three
your four Wolf Tang killer bea and the lift beyat
the Kayaki. Y'all know the top. Y'all know the round.
It ain't easy being crazy in the world full of
cleanly miss and you know all that other man is

(28:27):
We've gone.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
To house, bring it all.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
I would just like to point out that it's cannon
now because of the song that Fred Durst is in
Wu Tang.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, is he in the fighting game?

Speaker 1 (28:52):
I would given his wrestling connections.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Probably, I hope.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
So.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
The thing that I respect about Fred, and this is
true on Hot Dog flavored water as well, is that
he is like totally content to just get like absolutely
out wrapped on a track. He does not care.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
Maybe he doesn't think that he's getting out rapped, Like
that's the only thing I can think of, because he
like on on the next album, there's like exhibit DMX,
method Man and Red Man reappear like and Fred is
just I mean, method Man sounds like he's mailing in
this song and he is absolutely wrapping circles around Fred.
So it's just so funny to me that Fred just

(29:33):
like doesn't give a shit and he's like, yeah, whatever,
I'm I'm basically in.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Wu tang, bring Method Man in. Who cares? I don't
give a shit, And.

Speaker 5 (29:44):
That's what I'm saying, Like, it's you know, I don't
fucking you know, I don't call in way better podcasters
on on block Party to be like hey, come in
here and podcast circles around.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
I mean, that's the entire ethos of Columbia House Party
as we exclusively.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Do that, and that's what I do on all my podcasts.
I was like, oh, I'll get Zooms and Blake to
be better than me and drag my ass along.

Speaker 5 (30:05):
I mean, I don't even know what. Yeah, I don't
know what podcasting circles around someone is. It's probably a
bad uh, it's probably like a false analogy, but you
guys know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
It just is very funny to me that he.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
Consistently is like, yeah, I don't give a shit, I'll
get annihilated on these tracks. For like, the role in
Urban Assault Vehicle Remix is like seven minutes long. It's
seven minutes where Fred just gets absolutely just run into
the ground on his own track by much better rappers
than him.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Just to update that earlier item, I looked it up.
I can't find evidence of Fred Durst in that video game,
but I just DMD you guys a photo of someone
making a creator wrestler in a WWE game of Fred Durst.
So yeah, very despite it being like nineteen ninety nine technology,
very accurate because it just looks like pretty easy.

Speaker 5 (30:54):
Do actually think Fred was a playable character in one
of the games? I think he was in a fight
club video game if memory so, I'm pretty sure to
be playable kid, Yeah he is. If you if you
defeat fifteen wrestlers in slobber Knocker mode while playing as
the Undertaker, Fred Durst, is it becomes a playable character

(31:14):
in WWF SmackDown, Just bring it.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
What commitment to getting Fred Durst as a playable character? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (31:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
He's also in two thousand and two's WWF raw. He's
in that two thousand and four game Fight Club. He's
in another game called pop Scars that Jonathan Davis was
wait or I guess it got scratched, But like Jonathan
Davis was trying to develop a video game.

Speaker 5 (31:40):
Pop Scars is great. Yeah, I'd play that, man, I'd
play pop Scars featuring Jonathan Davis. That sounds like a
side project for all these new metal guys.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
I love that. It's beautiful anyway. Method Man said that
he wanted to work on the song not because he
was going to slaughter Fred on the track, but because
he never worked with a rock band before and he
was intrigued. This song was actually produced by DJ Premier
of Gang Star. He told up Rocks that he was
hesitant to do so at first, and then he also

(32:11):
told Rolling Stone in a retrospective article about his career,
Fred wasn't that good as an MC. But he said
to me, you don't say, he said to me, look man,
I don't wrap that good. I know I'm not that nice,
but if you can record me and make me sound better,
I think we can make this record a hit. The
thing that convinced me to be a part of it

(32:32):
was method Man was on it. DJ Lethal already had
that main lick, so I put my own bass and
drum pattern on it. I said, if I can just
get Fred to rap it better, we can probably skate through.
I just didn't want my audience mad at me. I
was happy with the finished project though, and I love that.
Like every quote about Fred is either he sucks or

(32:52):
he's an asshole. And even Fred's own quote is like,
I'm not very good at this, but I think we
can get famous anyway. And I think that's wonderful. Oh yeah,
for sure. That's all in biscuit is That's why I
think he's so smart. He's useless. He does he's not.
He's just a salesman.

Speaker 5 (33:09):
He's a salesman who managed to sell his way to
one of the biggest bands in the world.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
It's incredible. It's kind of amazing. It is amazing. To
your point about Fred Deer's constantly being outperformed on his
own songs. This album features guest spots from Scott Wheland,
Jonathan Davis, Aaron Lewis, and Les Claypool of Primus. And
with that, I think it's time for us to talk
about break stuff.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
It's just one of those days. But you don't want
to wake up and everything is fuck. Everybody sucks. You
don't really know why, but you want to just the
fuck just at all. Don't you make contract and if
you went to ust you like us all contract your
best band, stay away, mother fuck up. It's just one
of those days, he said, thinking about a guinn that's

(34:02):
its slim. You're gonna.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Seats that. I think you about a guinn talking that ship.
It's just one of those days.

Speaker 3 (34:14):
Good luck to break train first one to a plain
please with the bloodstain.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Damn mine at Maniac, you.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Better watch your back, fucking a pram Man, you'll stuck up.

Speaker 2 (34:24):
You just walked up that's been wanting to get fucked up.
Gets back to stay away, motherfucker. It's just one of
those days.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
He's that season ball ship.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
I'm thinking about it when that's it slid what you gonna.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
He's that seats that ballship I thinking about when talking
that ship. Look still come and get it. So break
Stuff as a song is kind of just a meme
now as much as it exists as a song.

Speaker 3 (34:57):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
It obviously has the very famous music vide, which was
filmed at Skate Lab and features Snoop Dog, Jonathan Davis,
Eminem and his daughter Hallie, Alec Baldwin, Polly Shore, Derek Jeter,
Roger Daltrey, Bam Margera, Bucky Lasik, Seth Green, Aaron Lewis, Flee,

(35:18):
Lily Aldridge, and Richard Lewis. Which is quite a group that.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Is like John quickly because I know you have this
off the top of your head. Power rank all of
those break Stuff video cameos.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Oh, power rank all of them? Okay, now I'm just kidding.
Please don't actually do that, despite your jokes, despite your
jokes about the cast of this video. It won the
MTV Music Video Award for Best Rock Video in two thousand. However,
we cannot talk about break Stuff without talking about its

(35:54):
ugly association and Limp Biscuit's ugly association with a disaster
of an event known as Woodstock ninety nine. This is
a song that was being played when physical and sexual
violence was committed by members of the audience. Fred Durst
infamously set on stage as things were getting out of hand,

(36:15):
people are getting hurt. Don't let anybody get hurt. But
I don't think you should mellow out. That's what Alanis
Morris said, had you motherfuckers do if someone falls pick
him up. We already let the negative energy out. Now
we want to let out the positive energy. In olympiscuits
autobiography or not Olympiskuit's biography, fred Durst would say, I
didn't see anybody getting hurt. You don't see that when

(36:37):
you're looking out at a sea of people at a
stage is twenty feet in the air, and you're performing
and you're feeling your music. How do they expect us
to see something bad going on? Which I actually think
is a fair point. Les Claypool would also sort of
defend fred Durst about all this in the San Francisco Examiner,
saying Woodstock was just Durst being Durst. His attitude is
no press is bad press, so he brings it on himself.

(36:58):
He wallows in it. Still, he's a great guy. So
there's so much to be said about the failings of
Woodstock ninety nine. I think Stephen Hyden actually already has
a podcast on that, so we don't need to get
too deep on it, but we can discuss it as
relates to Biscuit and how John. I know you want
to talk about this, so why don't you take the

(37:19):
reins on the Woodstock ninety nine pod. The thing with
Woodstock for Limb Biscuit is like it kind of both
created this situation where they became one of the biggest
bands in the world but also became a meme like
at the same time, like a meme before memes existed,
Like it kind of planted the seeds for them to
have like a massive album. This would have the Woodstock

(37:41):
would have been after Significant Other came out, but then
Hot Dog Flavored Water sold more copies than Significant Other,
so it kind of set the stage for them to
have this sort of like huge high because they got
so much press out of that one incident. But then
I think it also created a situation where they were
kind kind of the band that like took the fall
for new metal. And I don't think it's because people

(38:04):
were like, oh, they did that shit at Woodstock, like
what a bunch of assholes, But I think what it
did was it kind of like made them the poster
child for this music and made it such a thing
that they couldn't reinvent themselves. There was no way of
keeping themselves fresh. They became of the moment because they
became tied to this like singular event that happened in

(38:25):
nineteen ninety nine. They could not shake that sort of feeling,
that vibe of the moment. Because the reality is, like
most of the new metal bands of this era are
still doing it. Like whether or not we're listening to
it is another thing. But like you know, disturb still
sells out arenas, Slipknot still sells el Arena's System of
a Down just released two songs last week, and they

(38:45):
could sell out arenas tomorrow if they felt like it.
I mean, and then and Corn still sells out arenas,
and they released an album in twenty nineteen. And then
even lesser bands like Stained Is still doing it in
Drowning Pools, still doing it with a different singer, And
like the list goes on and on and on, Like
Biscuit was really like they were the band that sold
the most copies, like Significant Other and Hot Dog Flavored
Water combined sold more copies than any other new metal

(39:08):
like two albums you could think of, like even Coorn
couldn't compete with them. But it was just like the
it just burned too hot. They were the ones who
like took the fall because they became the kind of
prototypical new metal band. At the same time, they were
like the thing that most people thought was jokey about
new metal, right, Like Fred was such this like caricature,
and he was pretty shitty at his job, and he's

(39:30):
the front man, so that it's easy to pick on
and you know, and then like Wes never really seemed
to even like being in the band and like kind
of trashed them publicly a bunch of times, and so
they just became very easy to hate. And I think
that that it all kind of started at Woodstock. Like
I said, it allowed their their star to burn real hot.
But then that's also kind of like what made their

(39:50):
star burnout, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think that's
totally fair.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, I would personally argue that they are most tied
to the cultural phenomenon the Undertaker returning as a biker
instead of a dead man.

Speaker 5 (40:03):
That's part of that, and people were really pissed about
that and they put that they laid all that blame
at the feet of limb.

Speaker 1 (40:08):
Biscuit even though the kid Rock theme was first.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5 (40:12):
I saw kid Rock perform that theme live in Vancouver,
British Columbia on Raw Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
And yeah, eleven times platinum. Yeah, there's no there's no
arguing with the masses.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
No, it's not the Undertaker aside. I do think John's
point is good, and that both your point about it
sort of making them and destroying them in the same way,
but also the like just sort of the way new
metal in general is viewed, like Woodstuck ninety nine is

(40:46):
viewed as sort of the culmination of shitty bro culture, uh,
and limb Biscuit are sort of viewed as the culmination
of shitty bro music. And I think that both statements
are fair and unfair at the same time, if that
makes sense.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
I think they're more fair than not fair.

Speaker 5 (41:06):
Yeah, And like I mean, I will say, we definitely
got rid of bro culture when we got rid of
limb Biscuits, So that was cool, you know that that
is what happened.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
We definitely don't have bros anymore now, or we.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
Don't have hockey culture nothing like that.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, I mean it's all poison.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Fredders says that they were scapegoaded for Woodstock, and like,
I don't think that's entirely true, because yeah, I don't
think that they did themselves any favors. No, the music
just wasn't good enough. And that's not to say the
music itself wasn't Because I believe that Westmoreland is the
best new metal guitarist. It's not even close in my opinion,

(41:43):
Like some of the riffs, like just like this, I
can't not sing it because that opening riff is absolutely incredible.
Wes's guitar tone is so distinctive, his his riff ability
is second to none. And then yeah, Sam Rivers and
John Otto are both freaks. They're freakish players. Like if
you watch limb Biscuit live concert videos, like Sam Rivers

(42:03):
could have just been in limb Biscuit, like he could
have been Fieldy from Corn. He doesn't even know how
to He literally just hits the bass and hopes for
the best, Like he has no idea what he's doing,
still doesn't. He's been doing it for twenty years. He
does know how to play the fucking thing. But like
Sam is not.

Speaker 5 (42:18):
Sam could have just stood there, played like fourth or
sixteenth notes and called it a day. If you watch
Sam do live, like he made it so hard for himself,
like he's like rocking out while also playing the most
complicated bass parts you've ever heard in your life. It's
just nuts. So yeah, I think, but it was just Fred,
you know, he just he wasn't good enough, and he
made the music not good enough that it just couldn't

(42:41):
withstand the type of like heat that that they were taking.
And just the fact that like Wes just wasn't fully
ever interested in the band.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
We are going to talk about Wes being not that
interested in the band and his complicated relationship with Limp Biscuit,
and we're going to get to take that's hotter and
certainly more controversial than John's defensible take of Westbortland being
the best new metal guitarist. After this spicy er John

(43:10):
Cullin taker coming out all right, So uh, I don't
think you'll hear a lot of disagreement about west Borland's

(43:32):
quality as a guitarist, Jake, before we get into a
very spicy John Cullin take, I don't even know how spicy.
It is is just I disagree with it.

Speaker 4 (43:41):
It is all.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Spicy. You're like, yeah, I don't agree.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, as uh as mister mild over here anything that's
that's not in line with me.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Uh No.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
The Borland relationship with the band is a little weird
to sift through, is it not, Jake.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
Yeah, it's kind of back and forth. I guess on
like where he really lands on being in limp biscuit.
I want to talk to this because it makes me laugh,
because I think it's an interesting dynamic. In twenty fifteen,
Borland posted on his Instagram getting all packed up for
Brochella twenty fifteen. It's the same as Brochella, but off

(44:21):
Land can't wait to see some roided out, tribal tattooed
spray tan jello shot filled bowhunks do their best MMA
impressions in the top deck moshpit. Whenever we aren't on stage,
I'll be curled up in the fetal position in my cabin,
palms up while I desperately clinged the last week of
my thirties as it slips through my hooked fingers.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Rude of him to describe me.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
In a follow up interview with stereo Gum, who wrote
an article about this post saying that he hates being
a Limp Biscuit. He was asked directly what he feels
about being in Limp Biscuit, and Wes Boorland said this, No,
I don't hate being in olymp Biscuit. I'm very aware
of my band, so I totally get tons of people
don't like it and think it's a joke, and then

(45:03):
we have a really strong fan base that are great
and it's been something I've always been part of on
and off, but something that's always been my band, and
whether people think it's dumb or not, or elements of
it aren't cool, whatever, We've always had really fun live shows.
I've always gotten to create stupid stage personas that make
me laugh and hope they could possibly rub off on
someone in the crowd that isn't used to seeing things

(45:25):
like that. Borderline on costuming and performance art or whatever
you want to call it. It's an interesting place to
be and I've always sort of thought of it as
being a Democrat who's voting in a red state in
a way. It's like, I like my band. Do I
listen to that genre of music? No, but do I
participate in my band, and do I enjoy playing with
those guys. Yeah, it feels like home. I've known them

(45:47):
for twenty years and developed as a player with John
on drums and Sam on bass. It's part of my DNA.
I guess it feels good, which is like not an
endorsement of the band, but also not an outright rejection,
which is kind of his whole thing with them. I
guess yeah.

Speaker 5 (46:04):
I mean, I think that's that's pretty consistent like throughout
the history of Limbiscuit. I think it's interesting because when
you go back and like look at older interviews right
from the start of the band or like the start
of their success with significant other there's a lot of
interviews with just Wes, like it feels like there was
even an acknowledgment back then on the on the part

(46:26):
of like music journalists that like, you know what, like
maybe this guy doesn't love this, Like maybe there's a
story here, you know, because you don't really see that
with a lot of other bands, you know, you like
with Corn and stuff. It's not like you were ever
really seeing like Head and Monkey get interviewed just by
themselves unless it was for like guitar World or something
like that, but like you didn't just get like a

(46:47):
genuine like rolling Stone feature on Monkey. Not that that
I think there was ever a rolling Stone feature on Wes,
but you know, it does seem like there was a
focus of a lot of these kind of magazines around
at the time who were like, let's just maybe we
should just talk to Wes by himself. You never see
interviews with Sam Rivers, you never see interviews with John Otto.

(47:08):
You get a few with DJ Lethal because he.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Was in House of Pain.

Speaker 5 (47:11):
But yeah, it's like you do get quite a few
interviews with Wes, and I do think it was just
people trying to like poke a hole and see, like
does he you know, he seems pretty good, and he
also seems to be hiding himself and he's like giant
costumes and paint. Is that because he doesn't want people
to know that he's in this band?

Speaker 2 (47:28):
All right?

Speaker 1 (47:29):
So I'm gonna pivot us from there too. I tease
a John take, And John, you have an opinion on
a song on this album we haven't discussed. Oh yeah,
and I would like to play a clip of re
Arranged before we open the floor for your take.

Speaker 7 (47:45):
Just think about it. Completely Ben skepticco selling when I
would use to speak.

Speaker 3 (48:04):
And you just don't.

Speaker 7 (48:05):
From all around me, you witness me feeling become weak
and life is overwhelming heavy.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Is that that wears the ground?

Speaker 7 (48:13):
And I love to be the one to disappoint you
when I don't fall down, But you don't understand when
I'm adding to explain because you know it all and
I guess things will never change, but you might need
my hand well pulling in your home in this position,
I'll remember when I'm lessing though you.

Speaker 4 (48:39):
In me where.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
You'll get it. Come on, come on, come.

Speaker 5 (48:59):
On, all right, hit us John, Okay, I think that
Rearrange is one of the best songs ever.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
That's that's my take. Is that spicy like okay, it's
such a good song.

Speaker 5 (49:21):
It's so good and like I think Brian my Coast
on the pod cast, I think he genuinely thinks it's
like one of the greatest songs ever written from like
a technical standpoint and everything like he he will go
to bat like it's it's like Stairway to Heaven is
eighteen and Rearranged is nineteen, you know or whatever. I'm
not quite like I get it.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
I get that it's like a new metal song and whatever,
you know, But I do think that, like, I think
it's one of the best songs for me, Like it's
one of my favorite songs ever. I think it's so good.
I think every part of it is good. It's like
the one song where Fred really kind of puts it
all together, that every it's just produced so well. I mean,
Terry Dade is incredible, and yeah, I don't know, it's

(50:05):
just it's just such a good song. That ending part
just every time gets me. And I think the part
of the reason I think this too blake is that,
you know, I kind of had a fairly similar music
trajectory to you guys where you know, we all grew
up in Canada. We kind of listened to, you know,
the stuff that was around on the radio and sort
of the mid to late nineties, and then I think
we all kind of around that time sort of transitioned

(50:26):
into like emo and screamo and stuff like that. And
that's kind of where I went from new metal to
like emo and scream oh. And so at that time
it was kind of it was very much a disavowal
of new metal.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
You know.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
It was like because it just died, right, And so
you know, in two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
you couldn't be like, yeah, I like Corn like that
just didn't You just didn't say that at Warp Tour
or like at an Alexis on Fire show or something
like that. It just you just couldn't do it. So
I feel like I fully I always kind of there
was like a period of five or six years there
where I just completely disavowed new metal and I never

(50:57):
listened to it except for Rearranged and Got the Life
by Corn. Those are like the only two songs where
it didn't matter how much I liked scream Oh or
anything else. And I was starting to get into India
at that time. Those are like the two songs I
always held on to where I was like, no, you
know what, like these are really really good songs and
it doesn't matter that they're new metal, they're just very

(51:18):
good songs. And I feel like now that I'm started,
like you know, started getting back into new metal again,
and it's like, you know, we're in the era of
you can like whatever you like. Man that like, I
still just hang on to it, and I just think,
like Rearranged is such a good song that transcends the genre.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
I would agree that it is the best Limp Biscuit song.
And if you were constructing a list of like top
new metal songs that had appeal outside of the genre,
that it would it would be on that list. But
one of the best songs ever, it was just a
little too.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Firm for me, that's all. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
No one wearing a Yankees hat and a Celtics jersey
at the same time could be a part of one
of the best songs ever.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
I mean, you don't know that that's what he was
wearing when he recorded it, Blake, Okay, he obviously he
was wearing that. He was absolutely wearing that when he
recorded it. John.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Yeah, like Trill Bollin's cannot be responsible for one of
the best songs ever.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
I will say in response to that take, I don't
think it's one of the best songs ever.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
What.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
I don't think it's the best Limp Biscuit song.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
What.

Speaker 4 (52:19):
But but.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
There's only like four Limp Biscuit songs that I would
say are anywhere close to good. Okay, and this is
one of them. Okay, what are the other three? And together? Now? Okay?
Which I will always love. That's a great song. I
think the I think the best Limb Biscuit song is
rolling By like a country mind.

Speaker 5 (52:40):
Oh interesting, Okay, I don't agree with you on that
at all. And then the Faith cover is yeah, the
Faith covers great. The funny part, it's funny that you
say in Together Now. It just reminded me of when
you were talking about method Man and he's like, you know, yeah,
like I just really wanted the challenge of working with
a rock band. And then it's just like a beat
produced by DJ Premier and has no like guitars or

(53:01):
any rock stuff in.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
It at all. Will a thing I will give rearrange
that I don't think any other song in their discography does.
I can't vouch the last decade or whatever, a decade
and a half, but I haven't done a record in
a decade and a half, so you're clear. I appreciate
that it sounds like an attempt at a real song,
if that makes sense. Sure. Yeah, I'm gonna try to

(53:23):
say it's like discredit the rest of their music, but
like every Limp Business song is kind of just a
Limp Biscuits song, right and rearranged at least sounds like
an attempt at something else, right, Okay, And I think
and I do think it mostly succeeds. Like I'm not
saying it's bad by any means. I think it mostly

(53:44):
succeeds as being a more interesting version of their thing.

Speaker 5 (53:48):
Yeah, I think that's fair. And I think that that
probably speaks to what I'm saying about. How you know,
those were like two songs I could always go to
bat for even when I was trying to be like, no, yeah,
I do hate nu metal, you know, or whatever, So
I can get behind that.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
I'll defend Got the Life forever, Like there's a good
there are more Korn songs that I really like than
I care to admit.

Speaker 5 (54:09):
Korn's a really good band. I mean, that's just really good.
Corn does have some band It's unfortunate, That's not it.

Speaker 1 (54:16):
This is the thing is that there is good new metal,
as as funny as it is to look back at. Like,
I will maintain that Slipknot.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
Is actually good.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
It's definitely against remains a good band.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
I would argue that Slipknot aren't really new metal either,
well okay, I mean slip definitely aren't anymore well no, yes, anymore.

Speaker 5 (54:34):
Their first record is super new metal. There's way more
rapping on their first record than you remember. We reviewed
it for Pod and I was.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
I didn't remember so much Turntable will take your word
for that. I can see that.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
We know how John Colin received the album, and we
know that Fred Durst loved the album and thought it
was incredible. But Jake, how was this album received? And
what happened next for our boys and olymp Biscuit.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Uh So, the album was actually kind of well received.
It got four to five from AllMusic, a B from
Entertainment Weekly, a four out of five from The Houston Chronicle,
a three and a half out of five from Rolling Stone,
and a nice three out of ten from NME. Robert Christigau,
the legendary music critic who absolutely panned Three Dollars Bill,

(55:19):
said that just like this and and Together Now were
the highlights of the record, and that give their image
credit for having a sound, which is an awesome quote.
In twenty fourteen, in a retrospective, Revolver Music said that
the album was one of the great guilty pleasure hard
rock albums of all time. In his Kerrang review, Paul

(55:39):
Travers said they're a band riding the crest of a
musical revolution as opposed to one spearheading it, and fred
Durst's response was predictably fuck the critics. The album, though,
was ridiculously successful. It debuted at number one or It
hit number one on the Billboard two hundred and has
gone seven times platine them and then in the United

(56:01):
States for less. Have you added up with the next one?
Though it tracks? Fred Dere said of the band's success,
We're coming into people's lives at that point where music
really affects you, where one of those bands man like
those bands like Michael Jackson and Nirvana were to me.
It's fucking unbelievable. I'm setting the tone for someone's life

(56:21):
right now, which is terrifying. It sold six hundred and
forty three thousand copies in its first week and additional
three hundred and thirty five thousand copies in its second week.
They would follow this up with the mass success with
their third album, which we have already said is unfortunately
titled Chocolate Starfish in the Hot Dog Flavored Water. It
also features what I said before is in my opinion,

(56:44):
the best of them, biscuit song, which is Blowa.

Speaker 4 (57:00):
Wants you go to do marries and now freezi ans,
I'm not man's back and I'm fack you want you
gonna do? Now? He's going and bold and mold and
b the ntey bull and old and moon and over
the nutty bolling and moon and molding both and you
bol and bold and mold and molding. No one, no,
you'll be's up at this ship right there and the
n thing but Miskin is right here. They go in

(57:22):
the house for demands in the yard because if you
don't care and we don't care one, two, three times
on towing the six chosen for your face and nothing
Prisket fixed too.

Speaker 3 (57:31):
Where the fuck you man?

Speaker 4 (57:32):
Fuck shut the fuck up, the pack the fuck up
by fuck.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
This track up?

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Can I go the heads on you head on your
head through the windoms?

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Don't do me.

Speaker 4 (57:45):
I'm I'm gonna ri ans, not hand fracking, Mommy, what's
gonna do? Mawries now free as I got mans, You
know me?

Speaker 3 (57:54):
What's gonna do now?

Speaker 1 (57:56):
He's pulling it over and over and over the knock
you bar and mold and so I just need to
share that. When we're preparing for these episodes, sometimes Jake
and I will shoot each other emails back and forth
about like requests for so like this is a Jake episode,

(58:18):
this is one Jake's leading, so I might shoot him
a request like, hey, this is a topic I want
to hit, or like these are some points that that
John wants to talk about, just to help prep the
episode and make sure everyone gets their spots in the
only thing I requested for this one was that in
that spot for Roland Jake played, I was going to say,
it's got to be Rolan so much that he refused

(58:43):
My only request My Way, by the Way, which is
the song over top of the greatest video package in
WrestleMania history, in wrestling history, hyping the Rock versus Stone
Cold two at WrestleMania X seven. Anyone who watched any
amount of wrestling in the late nineties or early two
thousands cannot hear My Way without immediately picturing the Rock

(59:07):
and Stone Cold standing face to face, rock Bottom, stone
Cold stunner, beer splashing everywhere. It's the WWF video package,
and that says a lot, because as much as we
laugh at ww for some things, they could do a
video package right, and nothing has ever fitted better than
My Way. So no disrespect to the Undertaker and Roland

(59:31):
or Jake, but a misstep in your podcast preparation.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
There, Jake, I am going to offer my defense of
Rolin that shockingly has nothing to do with a wrestler's
entrance music, which I know is not a popular take
on this episode, but.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
It also was a wrestler's entrance music. But I don't
know that that's fertile ground to make an argument to
John and.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
I it's fertile ground.

Speaker 5 (59:55):
So no, the reasons fertile ground give us the all
branch of the Undertaker before to approach this point.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
You stop it right now. The reason I will offer
my defense of Roland is that Roland is kind of
the reason why I'm okay with doing this episode. And
I know that sounds stupid, but let me explain.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
So.

Speaker 2 (01:00:17):
I think, as we've established through this show and through
the last few years of my life, it's been very
easy for me to like not give a shit about
my musical taste and what people think of it, which
I no longer do. And we've talked with this at
fucking like so I'm not gonna go more about that now.
But lim Biscuit is definitely a sore spot in that area,
as I think they are for probably a lot of
people who are white and male and thirty. But I

(01:00:42):
was playing softball last summer, my friend was playing, my
friend of my team was playing music, and this song
came up, and I couldn't help but be like, does
this song actually like kind of rule? And it was
sort of my beginning of like accepting the idea that
shit like limpbiscuit like can be like really good in

(01:01:02):
the right moment, which I know is a basic dumb
thing to realize, but it is true and is it
is why I think it's a good song, which it
might not be, and maybe it's not in enough wrestling
packs and only on one guy. I don't know, but
I do think Roland just kind of fucking kills and
like sounds.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
Jake, it would be impossible for a song to be
further embedded in wrestling. Well, then even lack of wrestling
is not the issue with Roland.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Dylan Dylan cut cut everything I just said, And I'll
just say that I picked it because obviously it's embedded
in the history of wrestling, and that is what makes
I think Lands so well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Now I agree Roland.

Speaker 5 (01:01:45):
Is like a perfect microcosm though of limb Biscuit, where
it's like like unapologetically a great song, musically, great riff,
great drumming, produced extremely well, sounds like just it sounds
like it cost two million dollars to record, like it
sounds incredible, leaps out of the speakers. But the and

(01:02:06):
the lyrics are just about like riding a motorcycle or
a car or like like it's just so that's so
Fred Durst. And it was funny because we were we
actually just did Chocolate Starfish for pod cast, and Wes
had noted that Fred went through writer's block before Chocolate.

Speaker 2 (01:02:23):
Starfish in the hot dog favorite water. Oh that's what
I said, Jake. It was very confusing. He came out
with what's literally the hokey post.

Speaker 5 (01:02:31):
Yes, he was like, you know they they said that
Fred actually left the studio where they were recording to
like take a vacation on his own to try to
like break writer's block. I think he went to Seattle.
So it's not like he was like, oh, I'm gonna
go to Hawaii or some just like milk the label
money or whatever. He went to Seattle. I guess maybe
he like wanted to soak up some Kurt Cobain or
Eddie Vedder or something, and then yeah, like tried to

(01:02:54):
get over writer's block. And then yeah, I guess this
is how he broke it by writing a song about
ving a car while, as you say, doing the new
metal hokey pokey move in, no move out, hands up,
no hands down with him in the role in dancers.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
And then when the band was like this song sucks,
he said, well, it's my Way or.

Speaker 5 (01:03:13):
The Highway or the Highway, right, this is dedicated to you,
Ben's Dilla, You my favorite motherfucker.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
See, the thing about My Way is based on their
history of covering songs like Faith that should have been
an actual cover of My Way. Well, they did the
video like that, right, Like the video of it is.

Speaker 5 (01:03:28):
They're kind of on a version of like the Lawrence
Welk Show or something, which I think is like kind
of a nod.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
Should have just gone back to it. I should have
gone back to I would listen to Olympusica cover of
My Way all Day Love.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
I feel like I'm I've been an irresponsible enough steward
of this podcast so far that Jake, we should probably
get to the to the ranking into the mixtape.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
I'll wrap this up quick, just to point out that
Chocolate Starfish also peaked at number one when six times
Platinum then released Results May Vyry in two thousand and three,
an album I have no memory of except for that
terrible behind Blue Eyes cover. They also released Gold Cobra
in twenty eleven, which is the al I did not
know existed. They have had an unreleased album, Stampede of

(01:04:13):
the Disco Elephants, which has been in the work since
twenty twelve. They released four singles from it between twenty
twelve and twenty fourteen. As of twenty twenty, whoever, it
remains in development hell with no set release date. Truly
the Chinese democracy of our generation. Fred Durst has claimed
that the album is available on Soulseek. However, west Boreland
has said that it's still being worked on, so who knows.

(01:04:35):
Moorland said in twenty seventeen he was unaware of the
status of the album and that he had recorded twenty
eight or twenty nine songs for Fred Dursko Takeaway and
work on. So maybe he's just suffering through writer's block
to come back with another children's years. So Blake is right,
let's get to some rankins. What are we doing top

(01:04:56):
five on this record? Can you guys even do top five?
If you can do five, I could certainly get there.
Go for it, Okay, go for it.

Speaker 5 (01:05:04):
So I would say number five is probably break Stuff
number four, just like this number three in Together Now,
number two, Nookie number one rearranged. I think actually I
would swap Sorry, nobody like you has got to be five.
I'm swapping break Stuff out of my top five. Yeah,

(01:05:26):
that's my top five. I say that was very with
a lot of confidence.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
All right, I would I would go rearranged and together
now and break Stuff, which is a very by the
that's going chalk, but so be it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
I would go and together now, rearranged and then like,
I know, this is a really bad song. We didn't
talk about it, but it's so ingrained in my memory
of this album that Trust would be my number three.
Trust is a good song. I like Trust. It's just
like Trust is. I don't know why, but that song
of all songs records like I'm ten and I'm Mad
at my parents? Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. I mean

(01:06:04):
that's what these records were all about. I'm curious, Jake,
So you said you loved this when you were like
ten or whatever. When did you stop like not liking it.
I'm pretty sure I bought Chocolate Starfish and was excited
about it. I think I listened to it once and
then by that time I was sort of moving on
to like the pop punk punk stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:06:25):
It was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:25):
It was quick, like I was. Really It's a weird
thing because I was so young, and because that era
of music in anyone's life is kind of blurry because
you don't remember specifics. Yeah, so like it feels like
I was into Limp Biscuit and Corn and all that
for a long time, but in reality it probably was
only like eight months because I was left behind pretty quick.

Speaker 5 (01:06:44):
Oh yeah, I mean, you know, like Follow the Leader
was ninety eight, that's arguably when new Man's boom started,
and then probably Chocolate Starfish is when it stopped, and
that was released in two thousand, so it's like, yeah,
you know, it's a brief I mean, Corn had obviously
they had a couple, you know, they had issues around
that time, and they had you know, and then even

(01:07:05):
Untouchables I think by Corn, which is two thousand and two.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
I think, you know, I definitely had issues yeah, well, yeah,
they had the album, but yeah, and you've never come
back to it, like you've aside from hearing roleIn while
playing softball, you've never had like a reckoning where you're like,
you know what this is? Actually okay, still like you
hated listening to it. For this, I have very genuinely
been meaning to go back to corn because I do

(01:07:29):
think there's stuff there I would like. And I also
have this inner debate with myself which is for another
episode about whether system of a down or good or not.
But I've never I have never really gone back to Limbiscuit. No, yeah, okay,
that's fair, Jake.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
We should probably pick a song for the mixtape.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
Then, I mean, I feel like it has to be rearranged.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
Yeah, look, it's already in the spreadsheet.

Speaker 3 (01:07:51):
So.

Speaker 5 (01:07:53):
Well, you know when I come on here delivering that,
you know that five alarm, that five alarm hot wing,
that it's one of the best songs of all time,
you know, I feel like, I.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
Mean, it'll be the best song on the mixtape for sure.
I think it will. Well, hm, that's good, that's a
good question. I'd have to take a look at the mixtape,
but it's possible for me, I might think it's the
best song in the mixtape.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
We finally have a guest saying this is the best
song of all time. I love that no one had
been so bold yet, But it's because we hadn't gotten
to the best song of all time.

Speaker 2 (01:08:25):
That's all it is. Really, You know what the best
song of all time is? When you hear it Blake, Yeah,
I will say this or rearranged. It's music video directly
continues into the end together video, And when I was younger,
music videos that continued into other music videos was like
the coolest shit in the world. So I respect that. Well.
Fred directed all of them so he could do he

(01:08:46):
could do whatever he wants. Of course he's a director.
Yeah he is, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
There are some episodes we've done that are like a tighter,
like say fifty minutes, and like if you don't like
the band, maybe you learn something or you check them out.
I feel like Limp Biscuit is is going to be
a high attrition episode where it's like you you know,
you're either gonna love this episode or you are going
to shut it off seven minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
This is the test to see, like how much they
actually like Blake. And Jake Yeah, and John well, I
you know whatever, you know, I don't care, but also
like to.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Thank producer Dylan, who is probably going to take a
machete to this and get it down to a reasonable length.
And I would like to open the floor. Last time
John came on for Broken Social Scene, he has some
very kind words for Dylan that Dylan cut and I
would like to give John the opportunity to repeat them
in hopes that either a Dylan leaves the praise of

(01:09:40):
himself on this time or he at least has to
cut it and listen to it again. So it really
sinks in just how appreciated Dylan is.

Speaker 5 (01:09:49):
I said it on the last show. I'll say it again.
And I know you guys have brought it up. I
mean I'm a listener of this show as well. I
know you guys bring it up a lot that people
tend to compliment Dylan before or they compliment.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
The two of you.

Speaker 5 (01:10:01):
But it is an extremely exactly well, it's an extremely
well produced podcast. I think it's what makes the podcast
what it is. And I mean, you know, a few
too many ads, if I'm being honest, but no, overall,
it's a great it's a such a good show. Last
time I was on, I spent most of the episode
doing this like through line bit that I was going
to pay Dylan for my appearance on the show because

(01:10:23):
I like his producing so much, and he cut all
of that out. So Dylan, send me an invoice. Okay,
I am once again serious. I will pay whatever your
production costs are for whatever Blake and Jake pay you,
or the whatever Stringer Labs or just I'll pay.

Speaker 2 (01:10:40):
I will double it. So send me an invoice, and
if you cut this out, I will be pissed.

Speaker 1 (01:10:45):
There you go, Dylan, the gauntlet laid down.

Speaker 5 (01:10:47):
Yeah, exactly, what a gauntlet I'm laying down. Let me
pay you money, Dylan, Yeah, or else or else.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
If you would like to. If you like me, appreciate
John and you want pay him some money, you could
go to anywhere that you get your music and check
out his new comedy album, Long Stories for No Reason.
It's excellent. You can follow him on Twitter as well
at Calling the Comic, and check out his podcasts Block
Party and the pod Cast. John. Thank you so much, buddy.

(01:11:17):
You didn't over sell the amount that you know about
New Metals.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
This was great.

Speaker 1 (01:11:23):
I didn't have to do anything in the whole episode.
It was awesome.

Speaker 5 (01:11:25):
Thank you talk about wrestling eighty times. That's it, that's
what it's all about. Yeah, thank you guys for having me.
Love the show. I'll come back anytime. And yeah, maybe
next time we won't do New Metals so people don't
have to listen to me geek out and know all
this very dumb shit about it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:42):
I mean, that's the whole point of the podcast again.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
Okay, well, then I'll come back and do system of
a down with Jake. There you go. Finally I'll get
to the bottom of whether or not they're good They're not.

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
Yeah, but there you have it. Spoiler spoiler for episode
like three hundred of this or I guess it would
be like the second crossover episode basically between c HP
and the podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:12:05):
So yeah, I mean, we would love it. We would
love it. We got to get you guys on. We
we never have guests on the main episodes. We have
guests on the bonus episodes. So we'll have to bring
Blake and Jake on for some sort of New Metal punishment.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
Oh yeah, make Jake listen a forceable entry. J listen
to me explain the storylines going on at the task
for each song.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
You guys can do that one, I'll do I'm busy
that sorry, please try the fish. And with that, I

(01:13:20):
think it's time for us to talk about break stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:13:25):
Are we playing a clip of the song? Are we
all doing karaoke?

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
Oh? Yeah, absolutely? I mean Leaves of the Blood Stains anyway,
So let's just right. It's just one of those days
where you don't want to wake up. Everybody's fucked, everybody sucks.

Speaker 5 (01:13:45):
You don't really know why, but you want to justify
ripping someone's head off. No human contact, and if you interact,
your life is on contract.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Your best bet is to stay away, motherfucker. It's just
one of those days. It's all about that, he said,
She said, bullshit.

Speaker 1 (01:14:10):
M hm