December 2, 2024 • 65 mins
In the latest episode of Columbia House Party, hosts Jake Goldsbie and Blake Murphy are joined by Eric Koreen (@ekoreen) to discuss The Thermals' album The Body, the Blood, the Machine. Does a fight break out between Blake's two co-hosts for co-host supremacy? Tune in to hear. Find out more about the concept behind The Body, the Blood, the Machine, why it unfortunately still resonates strongly today, what makes The Thermals a band's band, and more on this week's podcast.
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See you next week for another episode of CHP.
Sick of hearing all the ads? Subscribe to Soda Premium on Apple Podcasts to get rid of them!Follow @ColumbiaHP on X!
While you're there say hello to @BlakeMurphyODC and @JGoldsbie.If merch is your thing, be sure to check out the store: http://bit.ly/chpmerchOr reach out to the show and say hey: podcast@columbiahouseparty.com
If you enjoyed today’s show, please rate Columbia House Party 5-Stars on Apple Podcasts.
See you next week for another episode of CHP.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
God reached his hand down from the sky. He flooded
the land, and he set it afire. He said, fear
me again. No, I'm your father. Remember that no one
can breathe underwater. So bend your knees and bow your heads.
Save your babies. Here's your latest episode of Columbia House Party. Jake,
(00:45):
what's up?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Man?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
From you doing like a voice audition for a show
there that was very spirited.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm just getting into the preacher vibe. You know, a
lot of talk about Christianity today. I'm back to uh,
you know, I don't remember the name of any of
the priests that I had when I was younger, but
one of those guys from Saint Andrew's Church or whatever
reference our guests will understand a little bit more. I'm
channeling my Biggie Langston from early in his in his
(01:12):
WW run when he had some some preacher vibes to
his promos. No, I don't know, I just want to
get biblical because this was, if we're being completely honest,
it was inspired by Mac reading the Bible on always Sonny,
not not anything actually religious. God's gonna give you some shoes.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Well, that's that's actually religious. It's just kind of wrong
about it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, you walk through fire, you get some shoes, there
you go. That's that's that's clearly the takeaway on the
religious commentary from today's album. It's it's certainly positive and
resortive like that, Jake, what do you got for us?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So a band that I also think comparing to last
week is appropriate because this is very much a time
and place band and a time and place album for
me personally. This album came out pretty much right when
I moved to Montreal, and so the way I get
to know cities when I first get there is I
just go walking. So I spent the first two weeks
(02:09):
I lived in Montreal walking around the city listening to
this album and this band. It's kind of my soundtrack.
So today we are talking about one of the best
punk adjacent albums of the two thousands, a quintessential George W.
Bush era album and an extremely important one for me.
Today we're talking about an album and a band that,
(02:31):
as by their own admission, are hardly art but hardly garbage.
Today we are talking about The Body, the Blood, the
Machine by the Thermals.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
God reached his hands out from the sky. He played
in the lamb that he said in a fire, he said,
fear me again. No, I'm your father. Remember that no
one can breathe underwater.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Spencer D said, oh your pets, say your famis, here's stuff, pichure.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
Yeah, here's your hat shot.
Speaker 7 (03:24):
Shard raised his hands out from the start. God asked
a everyone said, he said.
Speaker 8 (03:30):
Nol sap.
Speaker 6 (03:31):
Wow Now, sir.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Seard said, here's your fearsop. It's trying to rap beat.
So packed our things for filling a boot for God.
I freect, but now not.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
To raise up for stuff here? Oh stuff chu.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
So Hans, your peecher has herself.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
Here.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
So here's here future. So here's here fechure, so here's
here feature.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
All right. That song was Here's Your Future by the Thermals,
or as the typo in my note says, the thermalaes Thermal.
We are joined today by a guest for this episode,
and this guest actually introduced me to the Thermales. We
are joined by my other podcast co hosts for a
podcast co host fight, where Jake and Eric Creen will
(04:39):
compete for my love and the position of my favorite
co host.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Eric.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
What's up man?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Not too much? I assume Jake is going to win
just because he probably puts in more you know, effort
and like planning effort into uh you laugh, But you
should see how little I do for rappers.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Look, even the episodes of this podcast where you're like, well,
I don't even know this band, this is a blake episode,
you are still doing more than Eric does for the
Raptors Reasonables, where basically he comes on and I ask
him questions and that's that's pretty.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Much I was. I was going to actually, I was
actually going to offer for our recording today to plan
it out, but then I was getting this feature and
I was too mad. I was too mad about it
to to offer to help you. So maybe in another few.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Weeks, it's fine. Eric Crean at the Athletic Toronto covering
the Raptors. He's also the co host of Raptors reasonableiss.
You can follow him at e Kreen. You also may
know him from if you are a music fan and
a fan of this podcast or follower of this podcast
on Twitter. Eric put together the how did you frame it?
Nineties can rock bracket early in the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Oh yeah, yeah it was. It was March definitely, because
it was meant to replace March Madness, which did not happen,
and yeah, the tragically have predictably run away with it.
I am a hip fan, so you know, not disappointed,
but it was a fun little distraction for a few weeks. Though.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I have to think that I believe Serial Joe lost
the play in in that tournament. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I can't say for sure. That does sound correct. It
sounds correct in both ways, both factually correct and the
correct choice was made.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yes, be interesting to go back and see just how
many of those albums we've done at this point, because
we have done a few.
Speaker 9 (06:36):
Eric.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
One of the things that you are good at, I guess,
other than Raptors coverage, is you have good music takes.
But the other thing is your hair. You keep it
in good shape, even though it's not the most manageable hair.
And what I want to ask you, because this was
an issue before we came on the air, you're also married,
(06:57):
you'll have pets is does your home belong exclusively Jesus?
And you have a special comb for your type of hair.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I pretty much don't use a comb, and except if
I want to puff it out to give the ultimate
jew fro type situation. As a gag. But mostly I
just you know, use curly I have curly hair for
those who don't know, and I you know, shower, use
curly hair, shampoo and conditioner, give it a little quick
(07:28):
dry but not completely dry, and then just let it
dry as is. I don't often use a comb, so
I cannot help in this fight. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Well, we'll just have to assume that Jake is wrong.
Then I'm not participating in this move forward.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, when I do use it. When I do use
a comb, I guess I do use my wife's comb.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
All that helps, all.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right, I'm going to pivot us to music. Okay, so
Eric is on to talk about the Body of the
Blood the Machine by the Thermals. Eric, you have I
would say your music taste overlaps more closely with Jake's,
even though you and I obviously have some bands that
we have in common. You have been over the Life
(08:14):
of Columbia House Party. You've brought up the podcast a
couple of times and made it known you wanted to
come on. The Thermals to me are a very Koreean band,
not only because they are one of the official bands
of NBA. Twitter from the looks of it searching my timeline,
but also because you introduced me to them somehow, they
(08:35):
were off my radar until maybe twenty fourteen. Part of
that is because at the time that albums like The
Body of Blood the Machine were coming out, I was
still very much in the pop punk and emo scenes,
and then I had my you know, kind of multi
year dalliance being more of a hip hop person, So
I missed a lot of the kind of early mid
(08:55):
two thousands, the really good indie rock stuff, and the
Thermals obviously qual So first, thank you Eric for putting
me onto Thermals because they have become one of my
kind of go back or retrospective favorite bands to go
back and listen to. And thank you for coming on
and doing this episode of the podcast. Why the Thermals
for you? You gave us a basically the list you
(09:17):
sent of albums you might want to do is basically
like had five of the ten albums highest on our
to do list. So a lot of ways we could
have gone with this, But why why do the Thermals
stick out for you?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, I mean, if you ever do an episode on
the Wrens the Meadowlines and don't have me on, you
better be having somebody from the actual band on, or
else I'm going to be very upset, like that's the
only and they might come on like I anyway, I
don't need to get into this. The thermals came in,
you know, probably like Jake. I heard this album right
(09:48):
when it came out, but I hadn't been into quote
unquote indie rock for that long. I mean, you know,
in high school and suburban you know, thorn Hill, Ontario,
I certainly didn't have a pipe line into independent music.
I was sort of listening to a lot of you know,
mainstream rock, and then I got like you, Blake, I
(10:09):
got into hip hop. I remember, right before I started
getting into indie rock, like one of the most common
albums in my discman, yes that's a discman was college dropout,
so that would have been like two thousand and four.
And then I met my friend we're still friends, Nick
at the Ryerson University and he was and went on
(10:31):
to be a music writer. But I was big into
you know, just knew lots of music and introduced me
to lots of stuff, a lot of older indie So
that's how I came to really love bands. Like built
a Spell for One is a band that I wouldn't
have known with him guided by voices, even like I
barely knew the Pixies then. So I spent a lot
(10:53):
of sort of two thousand and five going back and
listening to nineties and early two thousands indie classics, and
then probably by about two thousand and six, I started
like I had heard what I needed to hear, and
then I started paying attention to new albums. And I
remember the Thurbals what it came out, the Body of
the Blood and the Machine. I hadn't listened to them before, really,
(11:17):
and it was just so damn catchy. And you know,
I would drive down to Ryerson sometimes in my mother's
Toyota Corolla, and this was definitely pumping in the in
the awesome stereo of the Corolla. It's just, you know,
it's what a thirty five minute record if that? And
while I certainly think side one is the more immediate
(11:42):
and catchy side than Side too, it's like a quick lesson,
you don't you know, there's nothing you really need to skip.
And that's even though some of my favorite albums of
all time, I would say are more labyrinths and you know,
go over, go all over the place. Those are sort
of the exception to the rule for me, Like I
(12:02):
love a time songed album in which you don't have
to skip a song, and this was just like a
shot of pure energy. And I wasn't even that political
at the time. Like now I identify with it more
that I did that.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, I can certainly see that on the political identification
aspect for me. You know, going back to this, Like
I said, Eric, you kind of introduced me this band,
I'd somehow missed them. For me, I really like as
someone who was raised or who went to Catholic school
all the way through the end of high school, but
wasn't raised in like a very Catholic home, like we
didn't go to church or anything like that. The reflections
(12:36):
on religion and the way that religion, and I'm sure
we're going to talk a lot about this, the thin
line between religion and the way people use religion to
justify a lot of bad things is very interesting to me. Jake,
you kind of teed us up with your connections earlier,
so we're gonna let you talk about those as you
guide us through the body of the Blood the Machine.
(12:57):
After this all right, Jake, take us away, give us
the quick background on the Thermals and get us to
(13:18):
the body of the Blood the Machine. Not as I
said before the break, the bloody, the blood the Machine
a lot of mistakes for me. The Bloody the thermalais.
Thank goodness, this is a Jake led episode. So take
it away, man, please thank this on.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
My Okay, very quick background before we end this album.
Thermals were formed in two thousand and two by Hutch
Harris and Kathy Foster, both of whom were formerly of
the folk group Hutch and Kathy, which is a very
creative name. The group originally consisted of Harris Foster, drummer
Jordan Hudson of m Ward's Band, and Ben Barnett on guitar.
(13:55):
They began as more of a Hutch Harris solo effort,
as he wrote and recorded the band's first album, More
Parts per Million, by himself, and then recorded it also
by himself, in the kitchen of his one bedroom house
in Portland, Oregon in two thousand and two. The record
label Subpop was then turned onto the album by none
(14:16):
other than our old friend of the show, Ben Gibbard,
who sent them along a copy and Subpop signed the
band to a three album deal within the first six
months of the band existing. More Parts per Million was
reportedly recorded for only sixty dollars and sort of, perhaps
unfairly but perhaps not established them as sort of a
(14:38):
low fi sounding band, kind of like The Mountain Goats
early work, and that label was kind of stuck with
them the rest of their career, even though only this
album is really kind of the low fi one. I
would say that More Parts Million is sort of a
kind of features a thesis statement for the band as
a whole, and that song is this one. No culture icons.
Speaker 10 (15:00):
The starving hardly at hardy garbage, hardly art hardly, starving hardly.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Aren't barley garbage, no color.
Speaker 10 (15:12):
Like Win, no set, no skin, bostay, Papa, look past
a million, billied tallness, no self conference, no cart tam,
no past that's don't want a deal, don't help, don't
see the same, don't ti when the same dings properly,
aren't properly.
Speaker 9 (15:32):
Starting hardly a poply cordage, probably aren't hotly starving pomly,
aren't happily cords or color.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Like Win, no set, nut skin, more stay.
Speaker 10 (15:48):
Baby a million you do need deadness, No sell repens.
Speaker 8 (15:53):
You don't get sight don the Comet because no deal.
You know that dam seem the.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Same name, the same name.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
That song rules it does.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
I don't know about you, Eric, but I got into
this album way after I sort of got into the
other first two because I was this was.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
What two thousand and three, so that would have this
and I mean even fucking a would have been like
tight for you guys, based on the timelines you just
laid out right.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, I was definitely put off by like the low
fight of it for a while, and then I went
back with like, oh wait, this is actually really good.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, this was pre when I would have been aware
of it, and so this is an album I came
back to and I certainly like parts of it, but
I still often have trouble with low fi records. So
you know, there are some like no Culture Icons is
like undeniable and that chorus is just you know, chef's kiss.
(17:28):
But that's just a hard sound for me to listen
to for even thirty or thirty five minutes.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah, fair enough. After the release of More Parts Million,
Ben Barnett would leave the band, leaving them as a
three piece, which would be their most consistent lineup configuration
throughout their existence. Hutch Harris would take over on guitar
when Barnett left, so he was seeing ampling guitar. Two
thousand and four, they would release their second album, Fucking A,
(17:55):
produced by CHP mainstay Chris Walla. The title was not
exactly a great commercial endeavor in two thousand and four,
when everyone was still kind of worried about these things.
A Cheris told Punk News in two thousand and seven
that I have to say they, being the label, were
good sports. But releasing a record called fucking' a in
(18:17):
spite of the fact that the title couldn't be mentioned
on the radio or in print for the most part,
we couldn't have cared less. We gave no quarter and
expected and received none in return. Fucking A is notable,
I think linking to Body the Blood, which in that
there is a promo pressing of a single that was
never released from this record. The song's God and Country
(18:39):
and it's one of my favorite thermals songs, And the
only reason I'm mentioning it is because the Body is
a pretty political record, as we're going to get into.
But up until this point. I wouldn't say the Thermals
were a particularly political band. And then when you're listening
to Fucking A, all of a sudden, halfway through the
(18:59):
record comes a song about wishing for the assassination of
the president, and it's I think it was an interesting
choice that that was sort of what they wanted to
be the single also, which props to them for that.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, they really weren't. They weren't rolling out the how
to be successful playbook with this album title and that
single choice.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, I just listened. I listened to your podcast on
the Walkman the other day on Bows and Arrows, and
you referred to them as sort of a band that
shot itself in the foot and sort of made pains
not to be successful. No, like, that's an example of
taking place and not be successful. Like this is how
(19:41):
you do it. I mean in a very obvious, unsubtle way.
But this is like, shit, we're not we're not succeeding
on any level except you know, holding true to our beliefs.
And I mean I not so rosy eyed to think
it was that pure or anything like that, but there
are better ways to make it than naming your second
(20:04):
album Fucking A. And talking about the assassination of the president,
even if you only realistically expect college radio to be
playing your songs.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yes, I think that is very true. Following the touring
cycle of Fucking A Hudson would leave the band, leaving
the group without a drummer. The thermals for a band
that only existed for like fifteen years have quite a
few lineup shifts, especially because two thirds of the band
was consistent and then the drummer was just kind of
in and out, which we see a lot actually, which
(20:34):
is weird anyway. For The Body the Blood the Machine,
they actually recorded this album as a duo, with Kathy
Foster handling all of the drum work as so a
one woman rhythm section, which is pretty cool. The Body
of the Blood Machine was recorded and produced by Fugazi's drummer,
coincidentally enough, Brandon Canty, who didn't end up playing drums
(20:56):
on the record sadly. Harris told Punk News regarding working
with someone Canty stature, it was very intimidating. He used
to kick the drums over and shout at us, what
the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 4 (21:05):
You suck.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Don't you know who the fuck you're working with here?
I'm fucking Brendan Canty. I was in Rights of Spring Bitch.
He drank about fourteen Red bulls a day and was
quite irritable. No, just kidding. He was a real sweetheart.
We just saw him in DC. He came to our show,
Brendan's the Best, Kathy and I seriously love him to death.
He brought major energy and enthusiasm. We couldn't have asked
for more, but then we did, and he gave it
(21:27):
to us. The Body is another CHP staple in that
it is a concept album about a quote young couple
who must flee a United States governed by fascist faux Christians.
For we're going track by track, which I don't if
for every track, but we'll start there. The album opens
with the song we heard off the top of today's episode,
(21:48):
Here's Your Future, an all time ALAM opener in my opinion,
it sets up the themes of the record. It's a
great song. It establishes the Body's god as a vengeful god,
which I think is important. And if we're sticking with
the cinematic theatrical concept album, I would say this is
a fantastic overture.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
As it were to me like this isn't part of
the story of the album, but it is a great introduction.
And I think the key line in the whole song
it's God talking to Noah and Noah talking back. You know,
we're going to create a new master race because we're
so pure. Oh lord, We're so pure. Like in case
(22:29):
you didn't know, this was a very you know, cynical
look on what's happened to religion. I think the because
we're so pure, Oh lord, we're so pure, just the
way he says it, with that faux confidence and cockyness
(22:50):
almost you know, like they're taking some shots here for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And I think, you know, just to take it back
to this being a concert album, is it a concept
album or is it just like like this is reality,
like fascist, foulk Christian ruling. I know it wasn't necessarily
at the time of two thousand and six, but like
we have just lived this album the last couple of
(23:16):
years really, especially when you get into some of the
other songs later that talk about you know, that hint
that body autonomy or justification for evil, and obviously you
know there's the the Bush element with respect to the
war that I'm sure we're going to talk about with
a song in a second. But yeah, the the Christian
Right is real, and yeah, I don't know so it's
(23:38):
it's a concept album, but it feels less and less
like a concept album over time.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
The couple in real life just would have moved to
Canada in two thousand. They would have been like a
New York article is the last.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yes, they would have been retweeting Bruce Arthur's tweets and
then out Canada and then coming up here.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I'm glad you mentioned the parallels though, because we are
going to talk about that, because it has come up.
This album is sort of back in conversation or was
back in conversation a couple years ago about that. Regarding
Here's Your Future, though, Harris has said it's his favorite
song on the album, and he said it goes so
many places and it changes a lot for such a
short song. Kathy and I didn't demo a ton for
(24:20):
the record. A lot of what's on the record just
kind of came out while we were in the studio
with Brendan. A lot of great stuff we came up
with on the spot, so that when we mixed, we
were kind of surprised and pleased at what had happened
and Here's Your Future is definitely a song like that.
Regarding the band's sort of maybe outside of Godden Country,
I guess a harsh veer into the political Harris told
(24:43):
Punk News a greedy, warmongering US government that exists only
to serve the Christian right and it's fanatical ideals. Did
anything in particular inspire that. I'll give you two guesses,
and the first two don't count. He would later expand
on this in two thousand and seven, talking to the
Center for American Progress, saying to me, there's no way
you can discuss American politics these days without pointing to
(25:04):
the connection with organized religion, particularly the Christian right. Bush
answers to the people who prop him up. The rest
of the world can apparently go to Hell. I grew
up Christian. I went to church every Sunday and attended
Catholic and Jesuit schools.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Growing up.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I actually played an active role in my Christian youth group.
In high school, I went to church camp to Tijawana
to build houses for homeless families, limiting tents. I found
so many positive things in Christianity, but eventually the hypocrisy
of organized religion, and my own lack of faith led
me to abandon the church. I do not believe in God,
but honestly I wish I did. And I think that
(25:37):
the ideas and the themes and all these things that big,
big ideas that Hotch Harris is talking about is best
articulated on this record by actually a song skipping quite
ahead to side be here, but is articulated by what
I think is the best song in this record. Power
doesn't run on nothing.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
We are just a child. We are just the child.
We are whine awake, but our laughter shaking. We're unaware.
Speaker 7 (26:17):
A faer heavy stare is his space with grims on
our basis.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
So given what we're asking for, miscod is with us off.
Speaker 7 (26:26):
Good's the richest my power doing run on nothing and
runs on what.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
I'm glad it's easy to up save.
Speaker 8 (26:36):
We have no shame.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
We have no shame.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I have two shameful admissions here to make before we
get back to the album. First, apologies to Eric. In
my notes, I realized that while you pushed me to
the thermals, I had actually heard Here's Your Future on
Weeds and remember liking the song. And when I went
back to it, I was like, oh, yeah, that band. Yeah.
(27:32):
The second is that I once captioned a picture of
I forget the specifics, but I was out with Thomas
Drants and we were eating something and the caption was
power doesn't run on nothing. And now, in reflection, that
could not have been a worse captain that missed the
point more And I probably shouldn't have brought that up
(27:53):
and mentioned it. But if we're not gonna be self
deprecating here, you know, look, Bush can't be the only
one taking shots here anyway, I'm an idiot, continued Jake. I.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Yeah, So anyway, I just want to talk about this
song because I think it's I think it's probably the
best song they ever wrote. Feel free to disagree, but
I think that the lyric in this line that really
sort of drives home what I think a predominant feeling
of I hesitate to say the left because it was
more mainstream than but sort of the anti Bush, anti
(28:25):
Christian right crowd was saying back then, is the line,
so give us what we're asking for, because either way
we're gonna take it. Our power doesn't run on nothing.
We need the land you're standing on. So let's go
move it, and they'll give us what we're asking for
because God is with us and our God's the richest.
And I just love how he writes about this stuff
(28:45):
in this song, and it's so much like as much
as I love and idolize and enjoy sort of the
directness of a propaganda song, I really like what Harris
does with this song and how he sort.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Of it's just it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
It's so mean and sarcastic, and I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, And I think it does a good job kind
of taking you inside the insidiousness of the way these
people think, right that, you know, our God's the richest,
and it's like it's not. They don't think in those
literal terms, but they do think that on top of
the money aspect, you know, the religious aspect of these
wars are justified and it's you know. The other thing
(29:25):
I like about this song too, is while it's clearly
about Bush and the war for oil, I think it
could just as easily transplant to a song about like
the Canadian treatment of indigenous people, or even like the
Da Cota pipelines or anything like that. Like it's a
really as specific as it is, it's a really translatable
song across a lot of issues with like governmental capitalism
(29:48):
and just you know, borderline fascism in general.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah. I mean, I think, given when it was released,
if you were just seeing, like the first eight songs
as part of a story that wasn't related to the time,
the song disabuses you of that notion, right. And it's
a lot of the lyrics that Jake you just read
and I'm sure you've read this quot and I hope
(30:13):
I'm not spoiling it because it's from that same Center
of American Progress interview. He said it, Hutch Harris said it.
Writeing it, I was picturing Dick Cheney writing those lyrics himself.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And I also picked up he's saying at some point
there's a lyric were more equal and not to get
a literary but from Orwell, who's another sort of factor.
Throughout this album there's a reference to Big Brother. I
think an animal farm. He's one of the rules becomes
(30:49):
everybody's equal, but some are more equal than others. When
the leaders, I think they were pigs. Do you guys
remember your animal farm? My wife says yeah, from the
other room of pigs, the leaders decide that they actually
in this you know, communist you know world, they actually
need some advantages over the people who they are supposed
(31:12):
to be serving, you know. Just musically the outro to
the song again just like so almost just so propulsive.
I guess that is the word i'd use, and a
really great counter to the fury that is that's the
lyrical content.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah, I think I think that's a I'm glad you
brought up the outro because I think it's sort of
highlights one of the things that I love so much
about this band in that so much of their music
is so simple, yet it's so effective. Like the outro
of the song is really it's a very simple guitar
line over just like a driving rhythm section and that's it.
(31:50):
But its yeah, but it works so well. And they
always did so much with such little instrumentation, and like
you know, Hair talking about how a lot of these
songs were just kind of the demos, and I think
even on Fucking A there's like one guitar overdub on
the whole record and it's just like this is what
it is and they and they kind of did that
(32:11):
always and I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I think it's great.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
How are they as a live band of either of
you guys, see, because I have not, So this holds
up that that extra layer of kind of I guess
they tour with more than two people to make that possible.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
But yeah, there are three. I've seen them twice or
three times. There were three pieces every time that I
saw them.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I saw them once at the Horseshoe. And Yeah, what
was most memorable after that about that is that was
the first time I got a burrito from Big Fat
Burrito that It was great. Maybe not the best pre
concert food, probably.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Oh you got that pre concert.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
That's that's your first mistake.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Oh, you probably just like like you were probably sweat
and guawk by the end of that show.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
That was a hot show too, I remember that one.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, I want to say it was in the summer.
I want to say it was like the Horseshoe in
August or something.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I was gonna say, it doesn't matter. At the Horseshoe anyway,
it would be a hot It was a hot show.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
So regarding all of the politics and things. In a
Noisy Rank Your Records article in which hot cheris ranked
the Body first on their discography, he said this came
out two thousand and six, so we were writing it
right after George Bush had been reelected. It was a dark,
scary time. I wanted to say something about it, but
politics and music can be simple and dumb. So what
(33:30):
we were looking to do was, Okay, who's actually propping
up politicians? And where does all that money come from?
And in that case, a lot of support and money
was coming from the religious right. It's not a revolutionary record.
It's a record about trying to escape, which brings us
to our next song, which I believe was the lead
single from the record. I know there's a music video
for it.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I would say this is sort of the if you
know a thermal song, this is probably the one you know,
maybe one for the next record video. Yeah, a great video.
This song is filled to the brim with biblical references
and biblical sounds, and that song is a pillar of salt.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
We were born to sin, we were born to sand.
We don't think we're special, sir, We know everybody is.
We felt too many balm, Yeah, we felt too many walm.
And now we've got a run a giant bisiness out
(34:41):
service brush us. Now I stick into the ground.
Speaker 6 (34:57):
I staid kill the ground.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
I won't look twice the dead balls. I don't want
to white pillar assault.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
I carry my baby, I carry my fabae by, barely
see her mout and barely breed.
Speaker 11 (35:16):
Find scene.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
He's afraid. That's why we're escaping.
Speaker 11 (35:23):
So we all put the time.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
We all happening that lot Surty dot thirty lot.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
The song that, by the way, has been stuck in
my head for like three days leading into this podcast.
So thanks guys, great video. Also to you. I think this,
I think this is not even just me assuming it
because the chord progressions are kind of the the same
across the two songs. But do you guys pillar of
Salt in returning to the fold, that's.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Kind of a one two like like that's kind of
a they are They are literally exactly the same chords.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, And I would say also certainly lyrically like a
Pillar of Salt is about them escaping or attempting to escape,
and I think Sodom is used more as a reference point,
like they're trying to escape whatever. This fictitious America I
(36:38):
assume it's America. I don't think is specifically mentioned in
the lyrics, you know, And now we got to run
a giant fist is out to crush us. So they're
they're they're not making any they're not hiding it, but
and then returning to the fold, which is actually probably
my favorite song on the record. I don't want to
get too ahead of your plan here with this album,
(37:01):
but it's definitely a reflection on what they have just done.
So musically they sound the same, but they it's almost
a call and response there at Clay as well.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah, I remember finding that very cool when I was eighteen,
that they were like the same, literally the exact same
chord structure, just with a different tune and back to
back and all that. This song also has. Obviously the
I was gonna say famous, this song is a big
enough be famous, but the very recognizable keyboard line in
(37:36):
the beginning that was sort of intentional along with the
themes of the record. Hutch Harris said that it was
a line I heard in my head while Kathy and
I were writing. I knew it would be best executed
on a keyboard. The studio where we recorded the Body
of the Blood, the machine called Supernatural Sound Studios ironically
records mostly Christian rock. So they had a class at
(37:56):
church organ and it was way too perfect and we
had to use it. The title, as Blake sort of
alluded to, is a reference to Lott's wife who turned
back to look at sodom and was turned into a
pillar of salt. Eric, you were kind of talking earlier
about how you don't consider Here's Your Future to be
part of the story. I agree. I've always seen this
(38:16):
song and returning to the fold as sort of the
beginning of the story, and I think from what I've
could glean your net, that's not an unpopular idea. Writing
for The av Club in twenty eighteen, Denette Chavez said
it introduces the couple will follow for the rest of
the album. That's one that per the Thermal's own description,
are fleeing a fascist regime. They don't want to have
(38:39):
to deny their dirty bodies, so they stick to the
ground on their way to Canada, the ever popular destination
for dissidence, and sort of in the because it's a
narrative punk album, the question of whether or not they're
going to American idiotize this album and turn into a
musical came up in an entry with Consequence of Sound,
(38:59):
where hutch Kris was asked with this and he said,
no one's sending us emails about wanting to make The Body,
the Blood the Machine into a musical, but I would
love to see a film based on the record, or
based on this new record. I don't want to do
it myself because it's too much work, but I love
the idea of it. I think the new record and
the Body of the Blood the Machine, they both would
lend themselves very well to a flesh out story using
(39:21):
those songs.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Eric, you have a bit of a Green Day slash
Thermals take too, don't you.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, I mean, just as this album is concerned, and
it was mentioned I believe in the Pitchfork review that
American Idiot was brought up, so it's not like a
holy original take, but I mean the Thermals have I
think they've covered Green Day before, and this album sort
of sounds like if Green Day tried to do American
(39:47):
Idiot when they were in their doochy phase, like if
they were more if they didn't want to make a
you know, a fucking rock opera and instead we're just
like try to get a very clear point across, and
you know, had were maybe a bit more tied into
their punk roots. And you know, still prioritized two and
(40:10):
a half or three minute songs instead of you know,
nine minute, five part songs. I think it's maybe what
this and like I like parts of American Idiot. I'm
not trying to criticize it too much, but this is
the more immediate listen, I would say. And I think
that's always just sort of made sense to me because
(40:30):
really as progressive and left leaning as the indie music
scene was, there weren't a lot of explicit songs or
albums about what was going on from a lot of
these bands. And this really certainly in hindsight, as you know,
as I said earlier, I wasn't necessarily thinking about this
(40:52):
at the time, but in hindsight, this is one of
the only albums in the you know, kind of the
indie canon from that time that directly takes what's going
on to task.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Yeah, I think that sort of this Bush era was
interesting for music. Sort of speaking out against it was
kind of I think this is sort of in this
is right in the height of like the I guess
at least for white liberals. I suppose sort of like
the Daily Show ification of political opinion. I don't necessarily
(41:28):
mean that as a negative because I think it made
a lot of people, including myself, aware of this kind
of stuff. But it was also the era of like
the Dixie Chicks criticizing Bush and having their career put
on hold for a decade, And like there was obviously
like political punk bands who were writing songs about this stuff,
and I'm sure tons of other artists that I didn't
(41:49):
listen to when I was eighteen writing song and stuff.
But yeah, in the like sort of I don't know,
it's called the Pitchfork crowd, it wasn't I think, quite
as common or it was, or if it was written about,
it was like alluded to rather than direct.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, like I love Spoon and the New Pornographers, but
they were releasing political screeds, you know, and the Thermals
are you know, they're not them. They have a bit
more of a punk adjacent sound as you put it.
But again, this wasn't being done with the other music
I was listening to. So it really stands out in
(42:25):
that way to me.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
And unfortunately, as a little segue into our next topic,
this album has sort of had a revival in the
last couple of years because nothing has changed and everything's
still bad and Republicans are so.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
In an article for up Rocks, Alex Galbraith wrote, elements
of Trump's America are all over this album once you
start looking for them. Where Trump supporters get ravenous at
the idea of a wall the future American people gleefully
shout good luck getting over the fence via a sneering Harris.
Trump's bullying rhetoric is parroted by subordinates saying things like
(43:04):
give us what we're asking for either way, we're gonna
take it, and we need the ground you're standing on.
This also is highlighting the lyric from the song an
Ear for Baby that goes draw the bridges, dig the
ditches deep, We're gonna need a new border. Get thyself
in line for your reassignment for the new first World order,
which is a great line and also parallels and Hatch.
(43:25):
Harris has actually written about this himself in articles for
The Talkhouse. He said that I'm not happy with the
fact the lyrics sound like they were written this year
and by Trump himself, and to me, this all sort
of reads like those jokes about the Simpsons predicting Trump.
And there's that great tweet about how the Simpsons didn't
(43:47):
predict anything. It's just things haven't improved since nineteen eighty nine.
And I feel like, well, I absolutely see sort of
the resonance of this album in the Trump era. To me,
it just highlights that, like it's just Republicans. It's just
like that's just what it is.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, Like Hutch Harris was doing an experiment about where
this could ultimately lead, like he went to like a
logical extreme kind of uh, and then the Republicans just
kept going in that direction. Like it's not like it took,
it took. It wasn't this wild like note for note prediction.
(44:28):
It's just like I think again, and it's why it's
so important to come This album is about the Christian right.
You know, it's thesis or not it's thesis, but what
it suggests is governments are, you know, beholden to the
groups that empower them. And he and a lot of
(44:51):
other people were smart enough to see like the voting base,
not only the voting base, but the money they got
from the religious right, and that's who ultimately, uh determine
the agendas of your country. So uh, you know, it's
that that's how capitalists, the governments often work most of
(45:12):
the time if there aren't you know, proper checks and balances,
and uh so often there are not.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
And this is uh, you know, the end of the
album kind of takes it to that place. And Eric
you mentioned, you know, he tried to push it to
what the logical extreme would look like, and it builds
to a pretty good album closer called I hold the sound.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
The lightout, We don't soup, the light out. We sleep now.
Let's dore locks, Let's do a lots. We don't suck.
We sleep now. Not hold you, not hold the sound.
We sleep now. It's safe. Now we can boom. The
(46:11):
world is over. The world is over. It's fairly still.
The sun is cold. Little world is over. Little world
is over. I hold you, not hold the sound. Hole
the sound, the hole, the sound.
Speaker 11 (46:38):
I hold the sound, the light out.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
We don't talk, the light out. We sleep now.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
I want to talk about I owed the sound because
I think it's important to the message of the album, which,
like by Harris's own admission, was as you kind of
pointed out, Eric was like written with what's the worst
it could get? Was kind of how they looked at
writing this album. But I find it really interesting that
the album closes with this song that I've always found
(47:43):
to be very hopeful despite everything, and about sort of
how despite the religious right and Republicans and the right
and all that, Like, there is sort of this notion.
It's like, it sounds cheesy as hell, but I've always
taken this song to be like, we followed this couple
this whole album, and they find sort of solace and
(48:04):
hope in each other. And I think that's sort of
something that is a great way place to leave off
on this album. There's an article great article in twenty
sixteen by Judy Berman in Pitchfork called After the Election
with the Julie Ruin and the Thermals, which is about
sort of the first two shows she went to after
(48:25):
Trump was elected, one being The Julie Ruin, which is
of course Kathleen Hannah's amazing band, and the other being
The Thermals, and Judy Burman writes art can only counterbalance
suffering by propelling those of us who have the autonomy
to act past hopelessness. Albums like The Body, The Blood,
the Machine are reasons to live not die. This is
from a different article about this album and about that
(48:47):
article by Julie Berman. She says, just as Berman writes
about not giving up, the thermals are not giving in either. Recently,
the band donated a large portion of show profits to
plan Parenthood and encouraged fans to donate as well. This
charunterbalance and negativity and refusal to give into hopelessness is
part of why there's power in this album. The songs
collected on the Body can and ought to be used
(49:09):
as fuel to remind listeners why they need to fight
against the government seemingly rapid descent into maddening bigotry and
corporate conflict of interest. In a piece for What, Harris
expressed a similar view about the power of music, saying
they can evoke the most powerful emotions inside us at
times when we feel brittle and broken. They can be
cleansing at times when we feel we will never be
(49:31):
clean again. Most importantly, songs are absolutely unbreakable. They are
powerful tools that will continue, we will continue to use
in a never ending battle against fascism. And I think
that song sort of represents that for me anyway.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
And boy is the battle sure never ending? All Right?
We're going to talk about how more ways this album
was received as well as where the Thermals went from
here after this? All right, Jake, So, the Body of
(50:12):
the Blood the Machine was album three of seven for
the Thermals. Obviously, the fact that they continued on for
four more albums suggests that they it was at least
a moderate success. Where'd they go from here? And how
did people respond to the Body of the Blood the
Machine back in two thousand and six?
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Extremely well. This is one of the better received albums
in the time it was released that we've talked about.
Contemporary reviews included an A from a V Club, four
and a half out of five from Consequence of Sound,
an A minus from MSN Music, which is a very
dated reference, and eight out of ten from NME, eight
point five from Pitchfork, eight out of ten from Pop Matters,
(50:54):
and a four out of five from Spin. Pitchfork also
named it the one hundred and eighty sixth best album
of the two thousands.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
It was very.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Distinguishable from the one eighty seventh.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Yeah No, and.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
Hold a Candle too.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yeah, It's that's clear.
Speaker 11 (51:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
The album is well regarded within the band as well,
as I said. Harris ranked it as his favorite Thermals
record in ranking Records, and it has dominated They're setless
over the next decade. According to set list FM, their
top three most played songs are all from this album,
being Here's Her Future, Pillar of Salts and returning to
the Fold, and they've played like on their like song Tracker,
(51:39):
they've played songs from this album like two hundred more
times near their album. They would follow this up with
Now we Can See in two thousand and nine on
Kill rock Stars, Kathy Foster once again the entire rhythm
section on this record. It's not a direct concept album
quite like this one, but there is a lyrical through line.
The band says it's a collection of songs from when
(52:01):
we Were Alive. Some of this is literal, as there's
a song called we Were Alive on it, and it
also opens with a song called When I Died. I
don't know about you, guys, but I've always looked at
this album very literally as just sort of reflections. Like
it starts off with when I Died, so it's about
someone dying and the rest of the album is reflections
of a dead person. They also had another single in
(52:23):
a music video from this album, which is the song
I Know Eric wanted to Talk about and that is
the title track called now we can see.
Speaker 8 (52:31):
Well Love.
Speaker 4 (53:07):
We were born in That says we were reared in
a shain, we tuckered in the sun. Who we lived
in the shade?
Speaker 7 (53:15):
Yeah, Vader were savage, we existed to kill.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
Our history is dandage. At least it was a thrill.
But now we can see now that our vision is strong.
We don't need to admit.
Speaker 8 (53:30):
We were wrong.
Speaker 11 (53:32):
Now we can see.
Speaker 4 (53:35):
But the energy is still stitch our enemies, light head
on the ground till we can't bet.
Speaker 8 (53:42):
Awell lovella love, hallow away love, Allah love, awoll love. Yeah,
now we can say.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
So, Eric, what is it about? I mean that album
paired with the Body of the Blood the Machine for you,
but also that song in particular.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Well, I mean the album again like a thematically just
about death. And you know, again he Jake said it
wasn't a concept album, and that's right, but you know,
certainly reflecting a lot on what it means to be
alive and how irrevocable a lot of this stuff is.
(54:32):
But I think what's interesting to me about that song
other than it rules, is we spent so much of
the time talking about the Body the Blood the Machine
for its lyrical content, and rightly so. I mean that
is what makes it most notable. But it doesn't work
unless there are like hooks upon hooks upon hooks, and
(54:56):
that intro to the song that's repeated throughout, like they
write some catchy pop songs, and that might not be
the first thing you think of when you think of
the Thermals, but I think that now we can see
the song is the Thermals at their popyist and their
(55:16):
most digestible. But I don't mean that as a backhanded compliment,
like it's truly great, and they would go on to
sort of lean into that I think a bit more
on their album Personal Life. But to me, this is
the best pure pop song they ever wrote.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
No arguments here, Jake, where do they go from here?
And then we got to rank some songs.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
After and now we can see West and Glass joined
the band on drums and would sick with them as
a drummer for the rest of their tenure. They released
Personal Life in twenty ten, which is my vote for
the most underrated Thermals album. They released Desperate Ground in
twenty thirteen, sort of a return to the lo fi roots,
and then we Disappear twenty sixteen. On April ninth, twenty eighteen,
(56:03):
the band announced that they were officially disbanding, and hutch
Harris has since sort of dabbled in some comedy, a
little bit of acting, and at least his debut solo
album Only Water in November twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
So, I will say that one of the more interesting
things about reflecting on the Thermals and reading about them
a little bit, you know, coming back to them way
after the fact. First is that they played Sam Sutherland's
weird Basement show Talk Show Night in twenty twelve and
they were really good. And the other thing is that
they the influence that they've had as much as they're
(56:41):
like a punky indie rock band, it's kind of all
over the more, like I guess what you'd classify as
emo or Midwest emo now, like like Ohso OsO and
into it over It both list the Thermals as like
one of their most their hugest influences, And you don't
really hear that in the music, but you can hear
it in kind of the approach, I think, And I
(57:02):
think it's just it speaks to kind of the Thermals
being like a band's band, where like they are one
of Rosenstock's favorite bands too, and they're you know, they're
they're kind of just you know, a band everyone everyone
seems to you know, everyone who cares a lot about
this kind of music seems to really care about. Dan
(57:22):
Ozi called them the most reliable band in indie rock
when they they broke up, and I think he said
they had the highest batting average across albums of any
band from this scene, which you know, again no arguments here,
so we've got to talk.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
Also, Hutch Harris has having The Body of the Blood
the Machine at number one, and his ranking album thing
is maybe the first time I've agreed with someone ranking
their own albums on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (57:50):
I think just to sorry, just very quickly touch on
what you meant about them being a band's band. I
think that they remind me of like, not musically at all,
but they remind me of lot of Spoon in the
sense that like they're they were extremely consistent to like
an absurd degree, and they have such incredible pop sensibilities
(58:13):
while writing in their own style that everything just ends
up like their floor is so high. Is how I
would consider them. Where like even the worst Thermal song
is better than most like pop punk adjacent music, and
like the Thermals were just so fucking good and I
was really bummed when they called it quits.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Personally, it's interesting that you mentioned Spoon, Like I personally
think Spoon's a bit more consistent, But you're mentioning like
two of my favorite bands of that era, and they
both come from like sort of this creative partnership between duos,
and it's Britt Daniel and Jimmy No with Spoon, and
(58:58):
then Hutch and Kathy, who I can't believe we got
through this whole podcast without saying they dated for a time,
but yeah, it happened.
Speaker 1 (59:10):
That's none of my business.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
Well, I don't know, you were to talk about Emo
like all the time on this podcast. I thought you
would want to get into their not so tortured backstory.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's mostly just like incredible
that you can kind of and like a real level
of maturity to still be able to work together through
that and stuff.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
I once saw the Rosebuds play a show in Washington, DC,
and they were also I mean, they were a married
couple for a while and they got divorced, wrote a
whole album together about the divorce basically, and I saw
them after the next record, which seemed to me to
(59:53):
be about the main dude falling in love again. But
she's still there at just like maybe I was just
like bringing all this to the show, but she just
seemed pissed off at not enjoying herself the whole show,
while he's like, yeah, except like again another band. That's like, yeah,
(01:00:15):
there are other people in the at least the touring band.
But it's more or less we're talking about two people.
It's the creative agid behind it, and it's just I
can't imagine that's not for me.
Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Not for me, I will say, just speaking to the
power of good duos, you know, being toward the end
of this podcast with the two people that I make
up duos with, you know, it can be a productive
duo with a good friend, can really get your creative
juices going. And anyway, we gotta rank some songs off
of the Body of the Blood the Machine. Eric will
(01:00:49):
give you first DIBs here at a top three or
top however many you want to list.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yeah, so I'm going to go to four just because
I have for that I remember when I did skip
through on occasion this album. These were the four I
stuck with. What do you want? One to four or
four to one?
Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Wonder four let's start the time?
Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Okay? So yeah, number one would be returning to the
fold and we didn't get too much into it. But
and I won't belabor all of these, but I really
like the element of him questioning his decision and to
escape and the couple's decision to escape a bit in there,
(01:01:32):
and I think that makes What's an unsubtle record a
bit deeper and really grapples more with how much it
takes to leave something you've become used to behind. So
that's not why. I just think that's the song that
always stuck with me the most, But I think it's
really important to making the album a bit a bit
(01:01:56):
stronger as a concept. Two I'll go Here's Your Future.
Three A Pillar of Sault, and four we didn't talk
about it at all, say Rosa and the Swallows.
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Yeah, great, great hook on that one, Jake, what do
you got for us?
Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
At the top, I have power doesn't run on nothing
at one. Like I said, it's probably my favorite thermal song,
and I definitely think it's lyrically just it is very
directly on the nose. But I appreciate that about it
and I love it. I have Here's Your Future at
number two, and I hold the Sound at number three.
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
All right, I have Here's the Future one, Pillar of
Salt two, and Power doesn't run on nothing three. So
this is not helpful in terms of determining one song
to pick out for the mixtape. Eric, as you know,
on this pod, you know, we try to either, you know,
sometimes pick the guest's favorite song or the song that
best represents kind of the conversation around the album. We're
(01:02:50):
in a bit of a weird spot here where I
think I leaned toward Pillar of Salt initially, and Eric,
it's in both of our top threes, and it's one
of the more better known thermal songs. But Jake's point
about power doesn't run on nothing being kind of the
the most lasting of the statements that that the album
makes is a relevant one. So Eric, I'm gonna give
(01:03:13):
you the floor here, what do you think should make
the mixtape?
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
I'd rather go on a bit of a popier note.
Of those two choices, I would go with Pillar of Salt.
We're making a mixtape here. You want it to you
want to feel the energy a little bit, and you
want to feel the good vibes. Not that that there's
anything super positive about this album's lyrical content except for
(01:03:39):
maybe h I hold the sad as you pointed out
and test pattern, But this one, I think it's gonna
gonna it's gonna be a banger on the mixtape.
Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
I'd go with that, so Jake, as long as you
don't have any objections. A pillar of salt is one
on a mixtape.
Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Yeah, that sounds good.
Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Is that you objecting throwing stuff on the floor.
Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
No, it's just my wife throwing cutlery around our kitchen.
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Unbelievable. It's not a comb she's throwing around.
Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
No, the cone's been putting its place for me to
use it later.
Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Don't worry all right, Now that we have selected a
song for the mixtape, we'd also like to thank producer Dylan,
which if this podcast is coming into your podcast speed
at a reasonable length. He did a great job today
because we ran a little long on this one. Apologies
for that, Dyl, but thank you for all your great work.
And we would like to thank Eric Kreen and you
(01:04:31):
can also follow Eric at E Green for Raptors and
music takes and just takes in general.
Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Let it takes fly Man, Yeah, you know, just try
and trying to get out my feelings without getting fired.
If that's the constant balance that we walk, I appreciate
you guys having me.
Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Thanks for coming on. It was overdue and sorry it
took as long as it did. Please try the fish
God reached his hand down from the sky. He flooded
the land, and he set it afire. He said, fear
me again. No, I'm your father. Remember that no one
can breathe underwater. So bend your knees and bow your heads.
Save your babies. Here's your latest episode of Columbia House Party. Jake,
(00:45):
what's up?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Man?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
From you doing like a voice audition for a show
there that was very spirited.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I'm just getting into the preacher vibe. You know, a
lot of talk about Christianity today. I'm back to uh,
you know, I don't remember the name of any of
the priests that I had when I was younger, but
one of those guys from Saint Andrew's Church or whatever
reference our guests will understand a little bit more. I'm
channeling my Biggie Langston from early in his in his
(01:12):
WW run when he had some some preacher vibes to
his promos. No, I don't know, I just want to
get biblical because this was, if we're being completely honest,
it was inspired by Mac reading the Bible on always Sonny,
not not anything actually religious. God's gonna give you some shoes.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
Well, that's that's actually religious. It's just kind of wrong
about it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, you walk through fire, you get some shoes, there
you go. That's that's that's clearly the takeaway on the
religious commentary from today's album. It's it's certainly positive and
resortive like that, Jake, what do you got for us?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So a band that I also think comparing to last
week is appropriate because this is very much a time
and place band and a time and place album for
me personally. This album came out pretty much right when
I moved to Montreal, and so the way I get
to know cities when I first get there is I
just go walking. So I spent the first two weeks
(02:09):
I lived in Montreal walking around the city listening to
this album and this band. It's kind of my soundtrack.
So today we are talking about one of the best
punk adjacent albums of the two thousands, a quintessential George W.
Bush era album and an extremely important one for me.
Today we're talking about an album and a band that,
(02:31):
as by their own admission, are hardly art but hardly garbage.
Today we are talking about The Body, the Blood, the
Machine by the Thermals.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
God reached his hands out from the sky. He played
in the lamb that he said in a fire, he said,
fear me again. No, I'm your father. Remember that no
one can breathe underwater.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Spencer D said, oh your pets, say your famis, here's stuff, pichure.
Speaker 6 (03:18):
Yeah, here's your hat shot.
Speaker 7 (03:24):
Shard raised his hands out from the start. God asked
a everyone said, he said.
Speaker 8 (03:30):
Nol sap.
Speaker 6 (03:31):
Wow Now, sir.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Seard said, here's your fearsop. It's trying to rap beat.
So packed our things for filling a boot for God.
I freect, but now not.
Speaker 6 (03:45):
To raise up for stuff here? Oh stuff chu.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
So Hans, your peecher has herself.
Speaker 5 (04:01):
Here.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
So here's here future. So here's here fechure, so here's
here feature.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
All right. That song was Here's Your Future by the Thermals,
or as the typo in my note says, the thermalaes Thermal.
We are joined today by a guest for this episode,
and this guest actually introduced me to the Thermales. We
are joined by my other podcast co hosts for a
podcast co host fight, where Jake and Eric Creen will
(04:39):
compete for my love and the position of my favorite
co host.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Eric.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
What's up man?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Not too much? I assume Jake is going to win
just because he probably puts in more you know, effort
and like planning effort into uh you laugh, But you
should see how little I do for rappers.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Look, even the episodes of this podcast where you're like, well,
I don't even know this band, this is a blake episode,
you are still doing more than Eric does for the
Raptors Reasonables, where basically he comes on and I ask
him questions and that's that's pretty.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Much I was. I was going to actually, I was
actually going to offer for our recording today to plan
it out, but then I was getting this feature and
I was too mad. I was too mad about it
to to offer to help you. So maybe in another few.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Weeks, it's fine. Eric Crean at the Athletic Toronto covering
the Raptors. He's also the co host of Raptors reasonableiss.
You can follow him at e Kreen. You also may
know him from if you are a music fan and
a fan of this podcast or follower of this podcast
on Twitter. Eric put together the how did you frame it?
Nineties can rock bracket early in the pandemic.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Oh yeah, yeah it was. It was March definitely, because
it was meant to replace March Madness, which did not happen,
and yeah, the tragically have predictably run away with it.
I am a hip fan, so you know, not disappointed,
but it was a fun little distraction for a few weeks. Though.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
I have to think that I believe Serial Joe lost
the play in in that tournament. Is that correct?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
I can't say for sure. That does sound correct. It
sounds correct in both ways, both factually correct and the
correct choice was made.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yes, be interesting to go back and see just how
many of those albums we've done at this point, because
we have done a few.
Speaker 9 (06:36):
Eric.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
One of the things that you are good at, I guess,
other than Raptors coverage, is you have good music takes.
But the other thing is your hair. You keep it
in good shape, even though it's not the most manageable hair.
And what I want to ask you, because this was
an issue before we came on the air, you're also married,
(06:57):
you'll have pets is does your home belong exclusively Jesus?
And you have a special comb for your type of hair.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I pretty much don't use a comb, and except if
I want to puff it out to give the ultimate
jew fro type situation. As a gag. But mostly I
just you know, use curly I have curly hair for
those who don't know, and I you know, shower, use
curly hair, shampoo and conditioner, give it a little quick
(07:28):
dry but not completely dry, and then just let it
dry as is. I don't often use a comb, so
I cannot help in this fight. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Well, we'll just have to assume that Jake is wrong.
Then I'm not participating in this move forward.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Yeah, when I do use it. When I do use
a comb, I guess I do use my wife's comb.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
All that helps, all.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right, I'm going to pivot us to music. Okay, so
Eric is on to talk about the Body of the
Blood the Machine by the Thermals. Eric, you have I
would say your music taste overlaps more closely with Jake's,
even though you and I obviously have some bands that
we have in common. You have been over the Life
(08:14):
of Columbia House Party. You've brought up the podcast a
couple of times and made it known you wanted to
come on. The Thermals to me are a very Koreean band,
not only because they are one of the official bands
of NBA. Twitter from the looks of it searching my timeline,
but also because you introduced me to them somehow, they
(08:35):
were off my radar until maybe twenty fourteen. Part of
that is because at the time that albums like The
Body of Blood the Machine were coming out, I was
still very much in the pop punk and emo scenes,
and then I had my you know, kind of multi
year dalliance being more of a hip hop person, So
I missed a lot of the kind of early mid
(08:55):
two thousands, the really good indie rock stuff, and the
Thermals obviously qual So first, thank you Eric for putting
me onto Thermals because they have become one of my
kind of go back or retrospective favorite bands to go
back and listen to. And thank you for coming on
and doing this episode of the podcast. Why the Thermals
for you? You gave us a basically the list you
(09:17):
sent of albums you might want to do is basically
like had five of the ten albums highest on our
to do list. So a lot of ways we could
have gone with this, But why why do the Thermals
stick out for you?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, I mean, if you ever do an episode on
the Wrens the Meadowlines and don't have me on, you
better be having somebody from the actual band on, or
else I'm going to be very upset, like that's the
only and they might come on like I anyway, I
don't need to get into this. The thermals came in,
you know, probably like Jake. I heard this album right
(09:48):
when it came out, but I hadn't been into quote
unquote indie rock for that long. I mean, you know,
in high school and suburban you know, thorn Hill, Ontario,
I certainly didn't have a pipe line into independent music.
I was sort of listening to a lot of you know,
mainstream rock, and then I got like you, Blake, I
(10:09):
got into hip hop. I remember, right before I started
getting into indie rock, like one of the most common
albums in my discman, yes that's a discman was college dropout,
so that would have been like two thousand and four.
And then I met my friend we're still friends, Nick
at the Ryerson University and he was and went on
(10:31):
to be a music writer. But I was big into
you know, just knew lots of music and introduced me
to lots of stuff, a lot of older indie So
that's how I came to really love bands. Like built
a Spell for One is a band that I wouldn't
have known with him guided by voices, even like I
barely knew the Pixies then. So I spent a lot
(10:53):
of sort of two thousand and five going back and
listening to nineties and early two thousands indie classics, and
then probably by about two thousand and six, I started
like I had heard what I needed to hear, and
then I started paying attention to new albums. And I
remember the Thurbals what it came out, the Body of
the Blood and the Machine. I hadn't listened to them before, really,
(11:17):
and it was just so damn catchy. And you know,
I would drive down to Ryerson sometimes in my mother's
Toyota Corolla, and this was definitely pumping in the in
the awesome stereo of the Corolla. It's just, you know,
it's what a thirty five minute record if that? And
while I certainly think side one is the more immediate
(11:42):
and catchy side than Side too, it's like a quick lesson,
you don't you know, there's nothing you really need to skip.
And that's even though some of my favorite albums of
all time, I would say are more labyrinths and you know,
go over, go all over the place. Those are sort
of the exception to the rule for me, Like I
(12:02):
love a time songed album in which you don't have
to skip a song, and this was just like a
shot of pure energy. And I wasn't even that political
at the time. Like now I identify with it more
that I did that.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Yeah, I can certainly see that on the political identification
aspect for me. You know, going back to this, Like
I said, Eric, you kind of introduced me this band,
I'd somehow missed them. For me, I really like as
someone who was raised or who went to Catholic school
all the way through the end of high school, but
wasn't raised in like a very Catholic home, like we
didn't go to church or anything like that. The reflections
(12:36):
on religion and the way that religion, and I'm sure
we're going to talk a lot about this, the thin
line between religion and the way people use religion to
justify a lot of bad things is very interesting to me. Jake,
you kind of teed us up with your connections earlier,
so we're gonna let you talk about those as you
guide us through the body of the Blood the Machine.
(12:57):
After this all right, Jake, take us away, give us
the quick background on the Thermals and get us to
(13:18):
the body of the Blood the Machine. Not as I
said before the break, the bloody, the blood the Machine
a lot of mistakes for me. The Bloody the thermalais.
Thank goodness, this is a Jake led episode. So take
it away, man, please thank this on.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
My Okay, very quick background before we end this album.
Thermals were formed in two thousand and two by Hutch
Harris and Kathy Foster, both of whom were formerly of
the folk group Hutch and Kathy, which is a very
creative name. The group originally consisted of Harris Foster, drummer
Jordan Hudson of m Ward's Band, and Ben Barnett on guitar.
(13:55):
They began as more of a Hutch Harris solo effort,
as he wrote and recorded the band's first album, More
Parts per Million, by himself, and then recorded it also
by himself, in the kitchen of his one bedroom house
in Portland, Oregon in two thousand and two. The record
label Subpop was then turned onto the album by none
(14:16):
other than our old friend of the show, Ben Gibbard,
who sent them along a copy and Subpop signed the
band to a three album deal within the first six
months of the band existing. More Parts per Million was
reportedly recorded for only sixty dollars and sort of, perhaps
unfairly but perhaps not established them as sort of a
(14:38):
low fi sounding band, kind of like The Mountain Goats
early work, and that label was kind of stuck with
them the rest of their career, even though only this
album is really kind of the low fi one. I
would say that More Parts Million is sort of a
kind of features a thesis statement for the band as
a whole, and that song is this one. No culture icons.
Speaker 10 (15:00):
The starving hardly at hardy garbage, hardly art hardly, starving hardly.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Aren't barley garbage, no color.
Speaker 10 (15:12):
Like Win, no set, no skin, bostay, Papa, look past
a million, billied tallness, no self conference, no cart tam,
no past that's don't want a deal, don't help, don't
see the same, don't ti when the same dings properly,
aren't properly.
Speaker 9 (15:32):
Starting hardly a poply cordage, probably aren't hotly starving pomly,
aren't happily cords or color.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Like Win, no set, nut skin, more stay.
Speaker 10 (15:48):
Baby a million you do need deadness, No sell repens.
Speaker 8 (15:53):
You don't get sight don the Comet because no deal.
You know that dam seem the.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Same name, the same name.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
That song rules it does.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
I don't know about you, Eric, but I got into
this album way after I sort of got into the
other first two because I was this was.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
What two thousand and three, so that would have this
and I mean even fucking a would have been like
tight for you guys, based on the timelines you just
laid out right.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Yeah, I was definitely put off by like the low
fight of it for a while, and then I went
back with like, oh wait, this is actually really good.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, this was pre when I would have been aware
of it, and so this is an album I came
back to and I certainly like parts of it, but
I still often have trouble with low fi records. So
you know, there are some like no Culture Icons is
like undeniable and that chorus is just you know, chef's kiss.
(17:28):
But that's just a hard sound for me to listen
to for even thirty or thirty five minutes.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
Yeah, fair enough. After the release of More Parts Million,
Ben Barnett would leave the band, leaving them as a
three piece, which would be their most consistent lineup configuration
throughout their existence. Hutch Harris would take over on guitar
when Barnett left, so he was seeing ampling guitar. Two
thousand and four, they would release their second album, Fucking A,
(17:55):
produced by CHP mainstay Chris Walla. The title was not
exactly a great commercial endeavor in two thousand and four,
when everyone was still kind of worried about these things.
A Cheris told Punk News in two thousand and seven
that I have to say they, being the label, were
good sports. But releasing a record called fucking' a in
(18:17):
spite of the fact that the title couldn't be mentioned
on the radio or in print for the most part,
we couldn't have cared less. We gave no quarter and
expected and received none in return. Fucking A is notable,
I think linking to Body the Blood, which in that
there is a promo pressing of a single that was
never released from this record. The song's God and Country
(18:39):
and it's one of my favorite thermals songs, And the
only reason I'm mentioning it is because the Body is
a pretty political record, as we're going to get into.
But up until this point. I wouldn't say the Thermals
were a particularly political band. And then when you're listening
to Fucking A, all of a sudden, halfway through the
(18:59):
record comes a song about wishing for the assassination of
the president, and it's I think it was an interesting
choice that that was sort of what they wanted to
be the single also, which props to them for that.
Speaker 1 (19:12):
Yeah, they really weren't. They weren't rolling out the how
to be successful playbook with this album title and that
single choice.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, I just listened. I listened to your podcast on
the Walkman the other day on Bows and Arrows, and
you referred to them as sort of a band that
shot itself in the foot and sort of made pains
not to be successful. No, like, that's an example of
taking place and not be successful. Like this is how
(19:41):
you do it. I mean in a very obvious, unsubtle way.
But this is like, shit, we're not we're not succeeding
on any level except you know, holding true to our beliefs.
And I mean I not so rosy eyed to think
it was that pure or anything like that, but there
are better ways to make it than naming your second
(20:04):
album Fucking A. And talking about the assassination of the president,
even if you only realistically expect college radio to be
playing your songs.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Yes, I think that is very true. Following the touring
cycle of Fucking A Hudson would leave the band, leaving
the group without a drummer. The thermals for a band
that only existed for like fifteen years have quite a
few lineup shifts, especially because two thirds of the band
was consistent and then the drummer was just kind of
in and out, which we see a lot actually, which
(20:34):
is weird anyway. For The Body the Blood the Machine,
they actually recorded this album as a duo, with Kathy
Foster handling all of the drum work as so a
one woman rhythm section, which is pretty cool. The Body
of the Blood Machine was recorded and produced by Fugazi's drummer,
coincidentally enough, Brandon Canty, who didn't end up playing drums
(20:56):
on the record sadly. Harris told Punk News regarding working
with someone Canty stature, it was very intimidating. He used
to kick the drums over and shout at us, what
the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 4 (21:05):
You suck.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Don't you know who the fuck you're working with here?
I'm fucking Brendan Canty. I was in Rights of Spring Bitch.
He drank about fourteen Red bulls a day and was
quite irritable. No, just kidding. He was a real sweetheart.
We just saw him in DC. He came to our show,
Brendan's the Best, Kathy and I seriously love him to death.
He brought major energy and enthusiasm. We couldn't have asked
for more, but then we did, and he gave it
(21:27):
to us. The Body is another CHP staple in that
it is a concept album about a quote young couple
who must flee a United States governed by fascist faux Christians.
For we're going track by track, which I don't if
for every track, but we'll start there. The album opens
with the song we heard off the top of today's episode,
(21:48):
Here's Your Future, an all time ALAM opener in my opinion,
it sets up the themes of the record. It's a
great song. It establishes the Body's god as a vengeful god,
which I think is important. And if we're sticking with
the cinematic theatrical concept album, I would say this is
a fantastic overture.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
As it were to me like this isn't part of
the story of the album, but it is a great introduction.
And I think the key line in the whole song
it's God talking to Noah and Noah talking back. You know,
we're going to create a new master race because we're
so pure. Oh lord, We're so pure. Like in case
(22:29):
you didn't know, this was a very you know, cynical
look on what's happened to religion. I think the because
we're so pure, Oh lord, we're so pure, just the
way he says it, with that faux confidence and cockyness
(22:50):
almost you know, like they're taking some shots here for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
And I think, you know, just to take it back
to this being a concert album, is it a concept
album or is it just like like this is reality,
like fascist, foulk Christian ruling. I know it wasn't necessarily
at the time of two thousand and six, but like
we have just lived this album the last couple of
(23:16):
years really, especially when you get into some of the
other songs later that talk about you know, that hint
that body autonomy or justification for evil, and obviously you
know there's the the Bush element with respect to the
war that I'm sure we're going to talk about with
a song in a second. But yeah, the the Christian
Right is real, and yeah, I don't know so it's
(23:38):
it's a concept album, but it feels less and less
like a concept album over time.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
The couple in real life just would have moved to
Canada in two thousand. They would have been like a
New York article is the last.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yes, they would have been retweeting Bruce Arthur's tweets and
then out Canada and then coming up here.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
I'm glad you mentioned the parallels though, because we are
going to talk about that, because it has come up.
This album is sort of back in conversation or was
back in conversation a couple years ago about that. Regarding
Here's Your Future, though, Harris has said it's his favorite
song on the album, and he said it goes so
many places and it changes a lot for such a
short song. Kathy and I didn't demo a ton for
(24:20):
the record. A lot of what's on the record just
kind of came out while we were in the studio
with Brendan. A lot of great stuff we came up
with on the spot, so that when we mixed, we
were kind of surprised and pleased at what had happened
and Here's Your Future is definitely a song like that.
Regarding the band's sort of maybe outside of Godden Country,
I guess a harsh veer into the political Harris told
(24:43):
Punk News a greedy, warmongering US government that exists only
to serve the Christian right and it's fanatical ideals. Did
anything in particular inspire that. I'll give you two guesses,
and the first two don't count. He would later expand
on this in two thousand and seven, talking to the
Center for American Progress, saying to me, there's no way
you can discuss American politics these days without pointing to
(25:04):
the connection with organized religion, particularly the Christian right. Bush
answers to the people who prop him up. The rest
of the world can apparently go to Hell. I grew
up Christian. I went to church every Sunday and attended
Catholic and Jesuit schools.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Growing up.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I actually played an active role in my Christian youth group.
In high school, I went to church camp to Tijawana
to build houses for homeless families, limiting tents. I found
so many positive things in Christianity, but eventually the hypocrisy
of organized religion, and my own lack of faith led
me to abandon the church. I do not believe in God,
but honestly I wish I did. And I think that
(25:37):
the ideas and the themes and all these things that big,
big ideas that Hotch Harris is talking about is best
articulated on this record by actually a song skipping quite
ahead to side be here, but is articulated by what
I think is the best song in this record. Power
doesn't run on nothing.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
We are just a child. We are just the child.
We are whine awake, but our laughter shaking. We're unaware.
Speaker 7 (26:17):
A faer heavy stare is his space with grims on
our basis.
Speaker 4 (26:22):
So given what we're asking for, miscod is with us off.
Speaker 7 (26:26):
Good's the richest my power doing run on nothing and
runs on what.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
I'm glad it's easy to up save.
Speaker 8 (26:36):
We have no shame.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
We have no shame.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I have two shameful admissions here to make before we
get back to the album. First, apologies to Eric. In
my notes, I realized that while you pushed me to
the thermals, I had actually heard Here's Your Future on
Weeds and remember liking the song. And when I went
back to it, I was like, oh, yeah, that band. Yeah.
(27:32):
The second is that I once captioned a picture of
I forget the specifics, but I was out with Thomas
Drants and we were eating something and the caption was
power doesn't run on nothing. And now, in reflection, that
could not have been a worse captain that missed the
point more And I probably shouldn't have brought that up
(27:53):
and mentioned it. But if we're not gonna be self
deprecating here, you know, look, Bush can't be the only
one taking shots here anyway, I'm an idiot, continued Jake. I.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Yeah, So anyway, I just want to talk about this
song because I think it's I think it's probably the
best song they ever wrote. Feel free to disagree, but
I think that the lyric in this line that really
sort of drives home what I think a predominant feeling
of I hesitate to say the left because it was
more mainstream than but sort of the anti Bush, anti
(28:25):
Christian right crowd was saying back then, is the line,
so give us what we're asking for, because either way
we're gonna take it. Our power doesn't run on nothing.
We need the land you're standing on. So let's go
move it, and they'll give us what we're asking for
because God is with us and our God's the richest.
And I just love how he writes about this stuff
(28:45):
in this song, and it's so much like as much
as I love and idolize and enjoy sort of the
directness of a propaganda song, I really like what Harris
does with this song and how he sort.
Speaker 4 (28:59):
Of it's just it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
It's so mean and sarcastic, and I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, And I think it does a good job kind
of taking you inside the insidiousness of the way these
people think, right that, you know, our God's the richest,
and it's like it's not. They don't think in those
literal terms, but they do think that on top of
the money aspect, you know, the religious aspect of these
wars are justified and it's you know. The other thing
(29:25):
I like about this song too, is while it's clearly
about Bush and the war for oil, I think it
could just as easily transplant to a song about like
the Canadian treatment of indigenous people, or even like the
Da Cota pipelines or anything like that. Like it's a
really as specific as it is, it's a really translatable
song across a lot of issues with like governmental capitalism
(29:48):
and just you know, borderline fascism in general.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah. I mean, I think, given when it was released,
if you were just seeing, like the first eight songs
as part of a story that wasn't related to the time,
the song disabuses you of that notion, right. And it's
a lot of the lyrics that Jake you just read
and I'm sure you've read this quot and I hope
(30:13):
I'm not spoiling it because it's from that same Center
of American Progress interview. He said it, Hutch Harris said it.
Writeing it, I was picturing Dick Cheney writing those lyrics himself.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (30:28):
And I also picked up he's saying at some point
there's a lyric were more equal and not to get
a literary but from Orwell, who's another sort of factor.
Throughout this album there's a reference to Big Brother. I
think an animal farm. He's one of the rules becomes
(30:49):
everybody's equal, but some are more equal than others. When
the leaders, I think they were pigs. Do you guys
remember your animal farm? My wife says yeah, from the
other room of pigs, the leaders decide that they actually
in this you know, communist you know world, they actually
need some advantages over the people who they are supposed
(31:12):
to be serving, you know. Just musically the outro to
the song again just like so almost just so propulsive.
I guess that is the word i'd use, and a
really great counter to the fury that is that's the
lyrical content.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah, I think I think that's a I'm glad you
brought up the outro because I think it's sort of
highlights one of the things that I love so much
about this band in that so much of their music
is so simple, yet it's so effective. Like the outro
of the song is really it's a very simple guitar
line over just like a driving rhythm section and that's it.
(31:50):
But its yeah, but it works so well. And they
always did so much with such little instrumentation, and like
you know, Hair talking about how a lot of these
songs were just kind of the demos, and I think
even on Fucking A there's like one guitar overdub on
the whole record and it's just like this is what
it is and they and they kind of did that
(32:11):
always and I love it.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
I think it's great.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
How are they as a live band of either of
you guys, see, because I have not, So this holds
up that that extra layer of kind of I guess
they tour with more than two people to make that possible.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
But yeah, there are three. I've seen them twice or
three times. There were three pieces every time that I
saw them.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I saw them once at the Horseshoe. And Yeah, what
was most memorable after that about that is that was
the first time I got a burrito from Big Fat
Burrito that It was great. Maybe not the best pre
concert food, probably.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Oh you got that pre concert.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
That's that's your first mistake.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Oh, you probably just like like you were probably sweat
and guawk by the end of that show.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
That was a hot show too, I remember that one.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Yeah, I want to say it was in the summer.
I want to say it was like the Horseshoe in
August or something.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I was gonna say, it doesn't matter. At the Horseshoe anyway,
it would be a hot It was a hot show.
Speaker 3 (33:08):
So regarding all of the politics and things. In a
Noisy Rank Your Records article in which hot cheris ranked
the Body first on their discography, he said this came
out two thousand and six, so we were writing it
right after George Bush had been reelected. It was a dark,
scary time. I wanted to say something about it, but
politics and music can be simple and dumb. So what
(33:30):
we were looking to do was, Okay, who's actually propping
up politicians? And where does all that money come from?
And in that case, a lot of support and money
was coming from the religious right. It's not a revolutionary record.
It's a record about trying to escape, which brings us
to our next song, which I believe was the lead
single from the record. I know there's a music video
for it.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
I would say this is sort of the if you
know a thermal song, this is probably the one you know,
maybe one for the next record video. Yeah, a great video.
This song is filled to the brim with biblical references
and biblical sounds, and that song is a pillar of salt.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
We were born to sin, we were born to sand.
We don't think we're special, sir, We know everybody is.
We felt too many balm, Yeah, we felt too many walm.
And now we've got a run a giant bisiness out
(34:41):
service brush us. Now I stick into the ground.
Speaker 6 (34:57):
I staid kill the ground.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
I won't look twice the dead balls. I don't want
to white pillar assault.
Speaker 5 (35:06):
I carry my baby, I carry my fabae by, barely
see her mout and barely breed.
Speaker 11 (35:16):
Find scene.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
He's afraid. That's why we're escaping.
Speaker 11 (35:23):
So we all put the time.
Speaker 4 (35:24):
We all happening that lot Surty dot thirty lot.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
The song that, by the way, has been stuck in
my head for like three days leading into this podcast.
So thanks guys, great video. Also to you. I think this,
I think this is not even just me assuming it
because the chord progressions are kind of the the same
across the two songs. But do you guys pillar of
Salt in returning to the fold, that's.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Kind of a one two like like that's kind of
a they are They are literally exactly the same chords.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, And I would say also certainly lyrically like a
Pillar of Salt is about them escaping or attempting to escape,
and I think Sodom is used more as a reference point,
like they're trying to escape whatever. This fictitious America I
(36:38):
assume it's America. I don't think is specifically mentioned in
the lyrics, you know, And now we got to run
a giant fist is out to crush us. So they're
they're they're not making any they're not hiding it, but
and then returning to the fold, which is actually probably
my favorite song on the record. I don't want to
get too ahead of your plan here with this album,
(37:01):
but it's definitely a reflection on what they have just done.
So musically they sound the same, but they it's almost
a call and response there at Clay as well.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah, I remember finding that very cool when I was eighteen,
that they were like the same, literally the exact same
chord structure, just with a different tune and back to
back and all that. This song also has. Obviously the
I was gonna say famous, this song is a big
enough be famous, but the very recognizable keyboard line in
(37:36):
the beginning that was sort of intentional along with the
themes of the record. Hutch Harris said that it was
a line I heard in my head while Kathy and
I were writing. I knew it would be best executed
on a keyboard. The studio where we recorded the Body
of the Blood, the machine called Supernatural Sound Studios ironically
records mostly Christian rock. So they had a class at
(37:56):
church organ and it was way too perfect and we
had to use it. The title, as Blake sort of
alluded to, is a reference to Lott's wife who turned
back to look at sodom and was turned into a
pillar of salt. Eric, you were kind of talking earlier
about how you don't consider Here's Your Future to be
part of the story. I agree. I've always seen this
(38:16):
song and returning to the fold as sort of the
beginning of the story, and I think from what I've
could glean your net, that's not an unpopular idea. Writing
for The av Club in twenty eighteen, Denette Chavez said
it introduces the couple will follow for the rest of
the album. That's one that per the Thermal's own description,
are fleeing a fascist regime. They don't want to have
(38:39):
to deny their dirty bodies, so they stick to the
ground on their way to Canada, the ever popular destination
for dissidence, and sort of in the because it's a
narrative punk album, the question of whether or not they're
going to American idiotize this album and turn into a
musical came up in an entry with Consequence of Sound,
(38:59):
where hutch Kris was asked with this and he said,
no one's sending us emails about wanting to make The Body,
the Blood the Machine into a musical, but I would
love to see a film based on the record, or
based on this new record. I don't want to do
it myself because it's too much work, but I love
the idea of it. I think the new record and
the Body of the Blood the Machine, they both would
lend themselves very well to a flesh out story using
(39:21):
those songs.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Eric, you have a bit of a Green Day slash
Thermals take too, don't you.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, I mean, just as this album is concerned, and
it was mentioned I believe in the Pitchfork review that
American Idiot was brought up, so it's not like a
holy original take, but I mean the Thermals have I
think they've covered Green Day before, and this album sort
of sounds like if Green Day tried to do American
(39:47):
Idiot when they were in their doochy phase, like if
they were more if they didn't want to make a
you know, a fucking rock opera and instead we're just
like try to get a very clear point across, and
you know, had were maybe a bit more tied into
their punk roots. And you know, still prioritized two and
(40:10):
a half or three minute songs instead of you know,
nine minute, five part songs. I think it's maybe what
this and like I like parts of American Idiot. I'm
not trying to criticize it too much, but this is
the more immediate listen, I would say. And I think
that's always just sort of made sense to me because
(40:30):
really as progressive and left leaning as the indie music
scene was, there weren't a lot of explicit songs or
albums about what was going on from a lot of
these bands. And this really certainly in hindsight, as you know,
as I said earlier, I wasn't necessarily thinking about this
(40:52):
at the time, but in hindsight, this is one of
the only albums in the you know, kind of the
indie canon from that time that directly takes what's going
on to task.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Yeah, I think that sort of this Bush era was
interesting for music. Sort of speaking out against it was
kind of I think this is sort of in this
is right in the height of like the I guess
at least for white liberals. I suppose sort of like
the Daily Show ification of political opinion. I don't necessarily
(41:28):
mean that as a negative because I think it made
a lot of people, including myself, aware of this kind
of stuff. But it was also the era of like
the Dixie Chicks criticizing Bush and having their career put
on hold for a decade, And like there was obviously
like political punk bands who were writing songs about this stuff,
and I'm sure tons of other artists that I didn't
(41:49):
listen to when I was eighteen writing song and stuff.
But yeah, in the like sort of I don't know,
it's called the Pitchfork crowd, it wasn't I think, quite
as common or it was, or if it was written about,
it was like alluded to rather than direct.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, like I love Spoon and the New Pornographers, but
they were releasing political screeds, you know, and the Thermals
are you know, they're not them. They have a bit
more of a punk adjacent sound as you put it.
But again, this wasn't being done with the other music
I was listening to. So it really stands out in
(42:25):
that way to me.
Speaker 3 (42:27):
And unfortunately, as a little segue into our next topic,
this album has sort of had a revival in the
last couple of years because nothing has changed and everything's
still bad and Republicans are so.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
That's true.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
In an article for up Rocks, Alex Galbraith wrote, elements
of Trump's America are all over this album once you
start looking for them. Where Trump supporters get ravenous at
the idea of a wall the future American people gleefully
shout good luck getting over the fence via a sneering Harris.
Trump's bullying rhetoric is parroted by subordinates saying things like
(43:04):
give us what we're asking for either way, we're gonna
take it, and we need the ground you're standing on.
This also is highlighting the lyric from the song an
Ear for Baby that goes draw the bridges, dig the
ditches deep, We're gonna need a new border. Get thyself
in line for your reassignment for the new first World order,
which is a great line and also parallels and Hatch.
(43:25):
Harris has actually written about this himself in articles for
The Talkhouse. He said that I'm not happy with the
fact the lyrics sound like they were written this year
and by Trump himself, and to me, this all sort
of reads like those jokes about the Simpsons predicting Trump.
And there's that great tweet about how the Simpsons didn't
(43:47):
predict anything. It's just things haven't improved since nineteen eighty nine.
And I feel like, well, I absolutely see sort of
the resonance of this album in the Trump era. To me,
it just highlights that, like it's just Republicans. It's just
like that's just what it is.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, Like Hutch Harris was doing an experiment about where
this could ultimately lead, like he went to like a
logical extreme kind of uh, and then the Republicans just
kept going in that direction. Like it's not like it took,
it took. It wasn't this wild like note for note prediction.
(44:28):
It's just like I think again, and it's why it's
so important to come This album is about the Christian right.
You know, it's thesis or not it's thesis, but what
it suggests is governments are, you know, beholden to the
groups that empower them. And he and a lot of
(44:51):
other people were smart enough to see like the voting base,
not only the voting base, but the money they got
from the religious right, and that's who ultimately, uh determine
the agendas of your country. So uh, you know, it's
that that's how capitalists, the governments often work most of
(45:12):
the time if there aren't you know, proper checks and balances,
and uh so often there are not.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
And this is uh, you know, the end of the
album kind of takes it to that place. And Eric
you mentioned, you know, he tried to push it to
what the logical extreme would look like, and it builds
to a pretty good album closer called I hold the sound.
Speaker 4 (45:35):
The lightout, We don't soup, the light out. We sleep now.
Let's dore locks, Let's do a lots. We don't suck.
We sleep now. Not hold you, not hold the sound.
We sleep now. It's safe. Now we can boom. The
(46:11):
world is over. The world is over. It's fairly still.
The sun is cold. Little world is over. Little world
is over. I hold you, not hold the sound. Hole
the sound, the hole, the sound.
Speaker 11 (46:38):
I hold the sound, the light out.
Speaker 4 (46:50):
We don't talk, the light out. We sleep now.
Speaker 3 (47:22):
I want to talk about I owed the sound because
I think it's important to the message of the album, which,
like by Harris's own admission, was as you kind of
pointed out, Eric was like written with what's the worst
it could get? Was kind of how they looked at
writing this album. But I find it really interesting that
the album closes with this song that I've always found
(47:43):
to be very hopeful despite everything, and about sort of
how despite the religious right and Republicans and the right
and all that, Like, there is sort of this notion.
It's like, it sounds cheesy as hell, but I've always
taken this song to be like, we followed this couple
this whole album, and they find sort of solace and
(48:04):
hope in each other. And I think that's sort of
something that is a great way place to leave off
on this album. There's an article great article in twenty
sixteen by Judy Berman in Pitchfork called After the Election
with the Julie Ruin and the Thermals, which is about
sort of the first two shows she went to after
(48:25):
Trump was elected, one being The Julie Ruin, which is
of course Kathleen Hannah's amazing band, and the other being
The Thermals, and Judy Burman writes art can only counterbalance
suffering by propelling those of us who have the autonomy
to act past hopelessness. Albums like The Body, The Blood,
the Machine are reasons to live not die. This is
from a different article about this album and about that
(48:47):
article by Julie Berman. She says, just as Berman writes
about not giving up, the thermals are not giving in either. Recently,
the band donated a large portion of show profits to
plan Parenthood and encouraged fans to donate as well. This
charunterbalance and negativity and refusal to give into hopelessness is
part of why there's power in this album. The songs
collected on the Body can and ought to be used
(49:09):
as fuel to remind listeners why they need to fight
against the government seemingly rapid descent into maddening bigotry and
corporate conflict of interest. In a piece for What, Harris
expressed a similar view about the power of music, saying
they can evoke the most powerful emotions inside us at
times when we feel brittle and broken. They can be
cleansing at times when we feel we will never be
(49:31):
clean again. Most importantly, songs are absolutely unbreakable. They are
powerful tools that will continue, we will continue to use
in a never ending battle against fascism. And I think
that song sort of represents that for me anyway.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
And boy is the battle sure never ending? All Right?
We're going to talk about how more ways this album
was received as well as where the Thermals went from
here after this? All right, Jake, So, the Body of
(50:12):
the Blood the Machine was album three of seven for
the Thermals. Obviously, the fact that they continued on for
four more albums suggests that they it was at least
a moderate success. Where'd they go from here? And how
did people respond to the Body of the Blood the
Machine back in two thousand and six?
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Extremely well. This is one of the better received albums
in the time it was released that we've talked about.
Contemporary reviews included an A from a V Club, four
and a half out of five from Consequence of Sound,
an A minus from MSN Music, which is a very
dated reference, and eight out of ten from NME, eight
point five from Pitchfork, eight out of ten from Pop Matters,
(50:54):
and a four out of five from Spin. Pitchfork also
named it the one hundred and eighty sixth best album
of the two thousands.
Speaker 1 (51:06):
It was very.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Distinguishable from the one eighty seventh.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
Yeah No, and.
Speaker 3 (51:13):
Hold a Candle too.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Yeah, It's that's clear.
Speaker 11 (51:17):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
The album is well regarded within the band as well,
as I said. Harris ranked it as his favorite Thermals
record in ranking Records, and it has dominated They're setless
over the next decade. According to set list FM, their
top three most played songs are all from this album,
being Here's Her Future, Pillar of Salts and returning to
the Fold, and they've played like on their like song Tracker,
(51:39):
they've played songs from this album like two hundred more
times near their album. They would follow this up with
Now we Can See in two thousand and nine on
Kill rock Stars, Kathy Foster once again the entire rhythm
section on this record. It's not a direct concept album
quite like this one, but there is a lyrical through line.
The band says it's a collection of songs from when
(52:01):
we Were Alive. Some of this is literal, as there's
a song called we Were Alive on it, and it
also opens with a song called When I Died. I
don't know about you, guys, but I've always looked at
this album very literally as just sort of reflections. Like
it starts off with when I Died, so it's about
someone dying and the rest of the album is reflections
of a dead person. They also had another single in
(52:23):
a music video from this album, which is the song
I Know Eric wanted to Talk about and that is
the title track called now we can see.
Speaker 8 (52:31):
Well Love.
Speaker 4 (53:07):
We were born in That says we were reared in
a shain, we tuckered in the sun. Who we lived
in the shade?
Speaker 7 (53:15):
Yeah, Vader were savage, we existed to kill.
Speaker 4 (53:19):
Our history is dandage. At least it was a thrill.
But now we can see now that our vision is strong.
We don't need to admit.
Speaker 8 (53:30):
We were wrong.
Speaker 11 (53:32):
Now we can see.
Speaker 4 (53:35):
But the energy is still stitch our enemies, light head
on the ground till we can't bet.
Speaker 8 (53:42):
Awell lovella love, hallow away love, Allah love, awoll love. Yeah,
now we can say.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
So, Eric, what is it about? I mean that album
paired with the Body of the Blood the Machine for you,
but also that song in particular.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
Well, I mean the album again like a thematically just
about death. And you know, again he Jake said it
wasn't a concept album, and that's right, but you know,
certainly reflecting a lot on what it means to be
alive and how irrevocable a lot of this stuff is.
(54:32):
But I think what's interesting to me about that song
other than it rules, is we spent so much of
the time talking about the Body the Blood the Machine
for its lyrical content, and rightly so. I mean that
is what makes it most notable. But it doesn't work
unless there are like hooks upon hooks upon hooks, and
(54:56):
that intro to the song that's repeated throughout, like they
write some catchy pop songs, and that might not be
the first thing you think of when you think of
the Thermals, but I think that now we can see
the song is the Thermals at their popyist and their
(55:16):
most digestible. But I don't mean that as a backhanded compliment,
like it's truly great, and they would go on to
sort of lean into that I think a bit more
on their album Personal Life. But to me, this is
the best pure pop song they ever wrote.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
No arguments here, Jake, where do they go from here?
And then we got to rank some songs.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
After and now we can see West and Glass joined
the band on drums and would sick with them as
a drummer for the rest of their tenure. They released
Personal Life in twenty ten, which is my vote for
the most underrated Thermals album. They released Desperate Ground in
twenty thirteen, sort of a return to the lo fi roots,
and then we Disappear twenty sixteen. On April ninth, twenty eighteen,
(56:03):
the band announced that they were officially disbanding, and hutch
Harris has since sort of dabbled in some comedy, a
little bit of acting, and at least his debut solo
album Only Water in November twenty eighteen.
Speaker 2 (56:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
So, I will say that one of the more interesting
things about reflecting on the Thermals and reading about them
a little bit, you know, coming back to them way
after the fact. First is that they played Sam Sutherland's
weird Basement show Talk Show Night in twenty twelve and
they were really good. And the other thing is that
they the influence that they've had as much as they're
(56:41):
like a punky indie rock band, it's kind of all
over the more, like I guess what you'd classify as
emo or Midwest emo now, like like Ohso OsO and
into it over It both list the Thermals as like
one of their most their hugest influences, And you don't
really hear that in the music, but you can hear
it in kind of the approach, I think, And I
(57:02):
think it's just it speaks to kind of the Thermals
being like a band's band, where like they are one
of Rosenstock's favorite bands too, and they're you know, they're
they're kind of just you know, a band everyone everyone
seems to you know, everyone who cares a lot about
this kind of music seems to really care about. Dan
(57:22):
Ozi called them the most reliable band in indie rock
when they they broke up, and I think he said
they had the highest batting average across albums of any
band from this scene, which you know, again no arguments here,
so we've got to talk.
Speaker 2 (57:38):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
Also, Hutch Harris has having The Body of the Blood
the Machine at number one, and his ranking album thing
is maybe the first time I've agreed with someone ranking
their own albums on this podcast.
Speaker 3 (57:50):
I think just to sorry, just very quickly touch on
what you meant about them being a band's band. I
think that they remind me of like, not musically at all,
but they remind me of lot of Spoon in the
sense that like they're they were extremely consistent to like
an absurd degree, and they have such incredible pop sensibilities
(58:13):
while writing in their own style that everything just ends
up like their floor is so high. Is how I
would consider them. Where like even the worst Thermal song
is better than most like pop punk adjacent music, and
like the Thermals were just so fucking good and I
was really bummed when they called it quits.
Speaker 2 (58:36):
Personally, it's interesting that you mentioned Spoon, Like I personally
think Spoon's a bit more consistent, But you're mentioning like
two of my favorite bands of that era, and they
both come from like sort of this creative partnership between duos,
and it's Britt Daniel and Jimmy No with Spoon, and
(58:58):
then Hutch and Kathy, who I can't believe we got
through this whole podcast without saying they dated for a time,
but yeah, it happened.
Speaker 1 (59:10):
That's none of my business.
Speaker 2 (59:12):
Well, I don't know, you were to talk about Emo
like all the time on this podcast. I thought you
would want to get into their not so tortured backstory.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
Yeah, I mean, it's just it's mostly just like incredible
that you can kind of and like a real level
of maturity to still be able to work together through
that and stuff.
Speaker 2 (59:32):
I once saw the Rosebuds play a show in Washington, DC,
and they were also I mean, they were a married
couple for a while and they got divorced, wrote a
whole album together about the divorce basically, and I saw
them after the next record, which seemed to me to
(59:53):
be about the main dude falling in love again. But
she's still there at just like maybe I was just
like bringing all this to the show, but she just
seemed pissed off at not enjoying herself the whole show,
while he's like, yeah, except like again another band. That's like, yeah,
(01:00:15):
there are other people in the at least the touring band.
But it's more or less we're talking about two people.
It's the creative agid behind it, and it's just I
can't imagine that's not for me.
Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Not for me, I will say, just speaking to the
power of good duos, you know, being toward the end
of this podcast with the two people that I make
up duos with, you know, it can be a productive
duo with a good friend, can really get your creative
juices going. And anyway, we gotta rank some songs off
of the Body of the Blood the Machine. Eric will
(01:00:49):
give you first DIBs here at a top three or
top however many you want to list.
Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Yeah, so I'm going to go to four just because
I have for that I remember when I did skip
through on occasion this album. These were the four I
stuck with. What do you want? One to four or
four to one?
Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
Wonder four let's start the time?
Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Okay? So yeah, number one would be returning to the
fold and we didn't get too much into it. But
and I won't belabor all of these, but I really
like the element of him questioning his decision and to
escape and the couple's decision to escape a bit in there,
(01:01:32):
and I think that makes What's an unsubtle record a
bit deeper and really grapples more with how much it
takes to leave something you've become used to behind. So
that's not why. I just think that's the song that
always stuck with me the most, But I think it's
really important to making the album a bit a bit
(01:01:56):
stronger as a concept. Two I'll go Here's Your Future.
Three A Pillar of Sault, and four we didn't talk
about it at all, say Rosa and the Swallows.
Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Yeah, great, great hook on that one, Jake, what do
you got for us?
Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
At the top, I have power doesn't run on nothing
at one. Like I said, it's probably my favorite thermal song,
and I definitely think it's lyrically just it is very
directly on the nose. But I appreciate that about it
and I love it. I have Here's Your Future at
number two, and I hold the Sound at number three.
Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
All right, I have Here's the Future one, Pillar of
Salt two, and Power doesn't run on nothing three. So
this is not helpful in terms of determining one song
to pick out for the mixtape. Eric, as you know,
on this pod, you know, we try to either, you know,
sometimes pick the guest's favorite song or the song that
best represents kind of the conversation around the album. We're
(01:02:50):
in a bit of a weird spot here where I
think I leaned toward Pillar of Salt initially, and Eric,
it's in both of our top threes, and it's one
of the more better known thermal songs. But Jake's point
about power doesn't run on nothing being kind of the
the most lasting of the statements that that the album
makes is a relevant one. So Eric, I'm gonna give
(01:03:13):
you the floor here, what do you think should make
the mixtape?
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
I'd rather go on a bit of a popier note.
Of those two choices, I would go with Pillar of Salt.
We're making a mixtape here. You want it to you
want to feel the energy a little bit, and you
want to feel the good vibes. Not that that there's
anything super positive about this album's lyrical content except for
(01:03:39):
maybe h I hold the sad as you pointed out
and test pattern, But this one, I think it's gonna
gonna it's gonna be a banger on the mixtape.
Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
I'd go with that, so Jake, as long as you
don't have any objections. A pillar of salt is one
on a mixtape.
Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Yeah, that sounds good.
Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
Is that you objecting throwing stuff on the floor.
Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
No, it's just my wife throwing cutlery around our kitchen.
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Unbelievable. It's not a comb she's throwing around.
Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
No, the cone's been putting its place for me to
use it later.
Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Don't worry all right, Now that we have selected a
song for the mixtape, we'd also like to thank producer Dylan,
which if this podcast is coming into your podcast speed
at a reasonable length. He did a great job today
because we ran a little long on this one. Apologies
for that, Dyl, but thank you for all your great work.
And we would like to thank Eric Kreen and you
(01:04:31):
can also follow Eric at E Green for Raptors and
music takes and just takes in general.
Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Let it takes fly Man, Yeah, you know, just try
and trying to get out my feelings without getting fired.
If that's the constant balance that we walk, I appreciate
you guys having me.
Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Thanks for coming on. It was overdue and sorry it
took as long as it did. Please try the fish
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