March 21, 2024 • 35 mins
El Observatorio de Tierras cumple 10 años! Durante una década hemos realizado numerosas investigaciones de la mano de equipos interdisciplinares de distintos centros de estudio sobre los problemas rurales del país. En este episodio hablamos del origen del Observatorio de Tierras, cuáles han sido sus aportes a través del litigio estratégico en temas de restitución de tierras y de política de drogas y finalmente, resaltamos porqué es importante el trabajo que hemos venido desarrollando.
Conduce: Carolina Crosby Jiménez junto a Rocío del Pilar Peña, Mónica Parada Hernándes y Bryan Triana Ancinez
Conduce: Carolina Crosby Jiménez junto a Rocío del Pilar Peña, Mónica Parada Hernándes y Bryan Triana Ancinez
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Conflicts over the land of indigenous communitiesoccur in several regions of the country.
One million hectares of forest have beendeforested in Colombia in the last twenty-
eight years as a result of drugtrafficking, illegal mining and the excessive use
of land for livestock. The secondjudge of restitution of land of an antioque
section threatened to send to the prosecutiona victim for claiming his rights before his
(00:25):
office, how about this is tiredof hearing this for years. You knew
that in Colombia one percent of thepopulation occupies eighty- one percent of the
land, while ninety- nine percentof the land is blamed by the other
nineteen percent of the population. Iknew that only twenty- six percent of
(00:47):
the productive units are headed by women. A Rosario Radio and the Observatorio de
Tierras present with their feet on Eartha space to expand the dialogue on Colombian
property and countryside. Or welcome andwelcome to our program with the Feet on
(01:25):
Earth carried out by the Observatory ofLands in alliance with the digital waves of
the Institutional Issue of the University ofRosario or Rosario Radio. Today, at
the working table I meet a professordew peña, academic coordinator of the Observatory
of Lands, researcher Brai Anteriana andresearcher María Mónica. For my name is
Carolina Crosby and I will be accompanyingyou in this episode. Remember that you
(01:48):
can listen to us on the websiteof the radio station w U rosario co
or on the streamung platform of yourchoice, where you can access and download
our episodes. Don' t forgetto follow us on our other social networks.
On Twitter they find us as Earthswatches and on Facebook we are like
Facebook com glash Observed Lands. Inthe Master Control we are accompanied by Duarte
(02:09):
and in the General Direction of theradio station Mario Castro. Welcome and welcome
to the Earth Observatory, or youcan follow on Twitter and Facebook as Arroba
Tierras observes. Today' s episodeis very important to us because we are
(02:43):
celebrating the ten years of the EarthObservatory. It is already ten years where
our interdisciplinary team, made up ofmathematicians, political scientists, economists, lawyers,
sociologists and topologists, have investigated issuesof agrarian reform, agrarian law,
land restitution, drug policy without muchmore is and we hope that much more
research will come. Our first podcastwas aired by Rosario Radio on August 14,
(03:05):
2000, and this has been themedium by which for more than four
years we have talked about topics wherewe want to explain to the audience in
a simpler way all our research.But it has also been the platform where
we share our outcome. Today Imeet with the legal team of the Universidad
del Rosario and I would like tostart by asking Professor Rocío Peña. Yes,
(03:28):
you can tell us a brief summaryof where the idea or the need
to create or found the Earth Observatoryarose and what was the context in which
this creation took place. Thank youCarolina for the invitation and thank you to
my fellow officers. Or today,as for today, for the usual reason,
(03:49):
the Observatory of Tiberra arises in thecontext of a call made by the
other Ministry of Science and Technology,which at the time was consciences and of
the concern that both Prof Gutiérrez andI and other researchers from other universities had,
(04:12):
with the role that the State hadin regulating the regulation of rural property
rights in Colombia, there was abackground, as were the third twenty-
five sentence of the two thousand four, which is now being fulfilled. In
(04:33):
these days I was serving twenty yearsand there was also about two thousand eight
two thousand nine, a bill thatsought the restitution of land and that we
say that it was sunk at thelast moment because the national government of the
(04:56):
then President Uribe sunk the proposal thenin that two thousand eleven, while we
were looking with amazement at the new, political, social changes, consciences,
makes this call and we think tojoin with universities of the province, as
(05:23):
are the University of Shin today atthe University of the North, and with
the Department of Mathematics of the UniversitySector Boleda, the National University, at
the Universidad Rosario, to make atemporary union and present ourselves to that call
and within the framework of that callthat more or less for the money at
(05:48):
the time were about, six zeromillion pesos of that time. It is
not from today, because we enterwith six very rough research projects and one
thing that happens is that property rightsbecause they necessarily go through the law and
(06:10):
all of them. This and thefact that we were an interdisciplinary group allowed
us to realize the importance of thislegal dimension and that, if we wanted
to better understand the legal problem ofthose institutions that regulate property, it was
(06:31):
necessary to talk to owners and peasants, who are basically the people who interact
with us. And that is wherethe need to set up a legal clinic
from the observatory arises and in thismonic from the beginning. Yeah, that
(06:53):
one- of- a- kindclinic. What you were basically looking for
was to understand the prons judicial problemsthat led to these normative institutions and to
make impact litigation and to do asimpact interventions in the High Courts, but
(07:18):
also in the Congress of the Republic. And that is how this path that
we have here today begins. Letus say already with a more consolidated legal
clinic and that is part of thelegal clinercas, not only of the Observatory
that has always been, but nowof the constructor and legal of the University
(07:44):
of Rosario. Or we invite youto keep your feet on the ground.
(08:22):
Thank you. I think it'll be dew. I would like to
ask how over the course of theseten years the Land Observatory and the research
that has done good have been fundedand sustained. Thank you, Carlina.
Basically the first impulse was given tous by the Ministry of Science Technology.
(08:43):
We started very early at the endof the two thousand and thirteen. So,
in two thousand and fourteen we reallyhave like the first things they'
re going to show and that's why we' re celebrating the ten
years and I' m projecting thatresearch program. He felt he had funding
for the professors and professors of theseuniversities that allowed us to train human resources
(09:09):
in science and technology and, therefore, very robust research results that we will
surely talk about in another program whenthe money and the temporary union was finished,
because the Observatory was like what beganfrom the beginning, which is a
(09:35):
network of researchers from different universities.So, for example, right now we
are with the Javeriana University and Caliand Bogotá, with the National University and
with the Rosario and we are financingourselves through research projects and programs that finance
public entities in Colombia, private internationalagencies, such as the UK Difi,
(10:05):
which financed a project of the NationalUniversity, the Fur of the University of
Rosario has also financed us and theMinistry of Science and Technology has funded us.
I believe that and after that greatproject between the National University at Rosario
las Adriana University, I think aboutfour or five more projects. Thank you,
(10:31):
Professor dew. I would like toask how the Earth Observatory and the
research that has done good have beenfunded and sustained over these ten years.
Thank you, Carolina. Basically thefirst impulse was given to us by the
Ministry of Science Technology. We startedvery early at the end of the two
(10:54):
thousand and thirteen. So, intwo thousand and fourteen we really have like
the first things to show and that' s why we' re celebrating the
ten years and project. This researchprogram allowed us to have funding for the
professors and professors of these universities,which allowed us to train human resources and
(11:16):
science and technology and because very robustresearch results that we will surely talk about
in another program when the money andthe temporary union was ended, because the
(11:37):
Observatory was like what began from thebeginning that is a network of researchers from
different universities. So, for example, at this moment we are with the
University of Javeriana and Calli and Bogotá, with the National University and with Rosal
and we are financed through research projectsand programs that finance public entities in Colombia,
(12:05):
private entities international agencies, such asthat of England, that financed project
of the National University, the fourof the University of Rosario has also financed
us and the Ministry of Science andTechnology has financed us. I believe that
(12:28):
and after that great project between theNational University at the Universidad Rosario las Adriana,
I believe that about four or fivemore projects, we are all the
time trying to seek resources and Ibelieve that not only what we do is
important in terms of public policy ofrestitution of land, distribution of land,
(12:54):
everything that has to do with thepeasantry, but also in the formation of
human talent, in quantitative research,in qualitative. Let us say that the
Observatory itself has developed I do notsay innovative methodologies, but has made innovations
(13:16):
to methodologies specific to the social sciences, in quantitative, qualitative and mixed methods.
And that has allowed us that thisnetwork that is to be said,
thanks to the pure thrust of theresearchers and that the faculty of jurisprudence of
(13:37):
the rosary supports us with physical space, by lending us everything we need to
lend it to us. Thanks tothat support, we can stay here and
hope to stay here for at leastanother ten years. Thank you very much,
(14:05):
Professor Rocío. Professor Rocío mentioned thatresearcher Mónica Parada had been since the
beginning in the creation and implementation ofthe legal clinic. I would like to
ask Monica Parada, then, whatthese important actions have been carried out by
the Land Observatory through litigation on legrestitution issues. Thank you Carolina, thank
(14:30):
you Profe and the Teacherabián also forthe space, because yes, I had
the opportunity of just graduating to workdirectly at the Observatory and because it was
a time when we were also doingas a strategic plan to see where there
could be incidences of institutional waste.I remember very well that there was a
(14:50):
specific objective always in the reports ofconscience, which was that of modification or
impact on institutional designs for the regulationof agrarian property. And we started to
kind of dig into what was themove at the time in terms of public
policy. I do not agree,therefore, more or less like with the
entry or the first years, ratherwith the policy of land restitution, and
(15:13):
we started to do it almost followup in real time with the policy of
land restitution. For us it wasvery interesting because, because in the restitution
of land we had as the componentof the administrative phase that we analyzed from
the perspective of what the State does, the executive to advance in the documentation
of the cases and in the collection, not only avoid but as a little
(15:37):
mapping the whole issue of dispossession.At that time, or that was what
was in the matter of dispossession,but we also had a judicial party that
for us was much more interesting,because they were the judges, entering directly
into the implementation of such an importantpublic policy for the victims of the country.
So let' s say we starteddoing a little follow- up.
(16:00):
First with the sentences. We startedto collect all the sentences we saw to
identify some patterns suddenly we became veryinterested in the figurative, because in the
restitution of land and from there webegan to arrive, let' s say
cases that were suddenly working colleagues inother NGOs. Then we began to get
into the subject not only of theanalysis of the restitution of land, but
(16:22):
already in the incidence of the restitutionof land, and then I made an
impact in terms of how to moveforward, for that or how to help
shape a bit the jurisprudence in frontof the t Then I remember well that
one of our first cases that wedid not come to us, but that
(16:42):
from a very judicious reading of thelaw, we saw that there was as
a rule that departs from your initialdesign that conditioned, for example, the
economic compensation of the victims of therestitution of land or the material restitution forgiveness.
It conditioned the material restitution of theproperties to those who were declared as
(17:03):
victims of dispossession and forced abandonment.They conditioned that restitution to the fact that
if there was a third party there, he had to wait for this third
party to be paid to leave theproperty and there if they handed him over
to the victims. And we,just this idea, like that orientation that
we had of such a law,must really respond to the needs of the
(17:25):
victims. We filed an action ofunconstitutionality against that norm, which, because
we won We think it important,moreover, because the team of the clinic,
because we were all junior lawyers recentlygraduated and it was the same because
coordinated. For us, then,as recently as Gradus, it was extremely
important as having been able to litigatebefore the Constitutional Court and that the Court
(17:48):
also gave us the right not tomake restitution conditional on payment of compensation by
a third party, since the violationof the rights of the victims. That
was like a first big win,that s s s. S. S.
S. It was very important andfrom there we also started not so
much the litigation we did focused onthe constitutionality of the law and one later
(18:08):
as they began to reach us ascases already more to support the itio that
other colleagues were doing in other organizations, one of these that we accompanied from
the beginning was the case of theFranciscas, which is a case of dispossession
that occurred in the Magdalena. Andthere, then, in this case what
we were doing were interventions first beforethe courts. It was a case that
(18:29):
the Tribunal had to say. There, yes, from Cartagena, and we
started to take action to encourage theTribunal to make decisions because, in addition
to Timus, it was delaying alot. Then we were behind, insisting,
therefore, that the dispossession had beenconfigured, that there are some victims
are clear and that the right ofrestitution of land was, because it was
(18:52):
very clear that it had to berecognized by the Huest that case, well,
then it was ruled in court andafter the judgment let' s say
phase in quotation marks. The endbegan all a series of actions before the
high courts to reverse the effects ofthat case. And we were also promoting
through citizen interventions from the clinic,and the last one we did was in
(19:17):
December last year, in a requestfor the annulment of a sentence that made
the constitutional accord in which, inour opinion, was reversing much of the
jurisprudence, which has been favorable tothe victims in this matter. What is
meant by dispossession and what is meantby the standards that must or should have
(19:38):
met Who were made to the stonesin the context of the conflict and then
we carry That is one of thosecases that we have accompanied, since the
beginning of the legal clinic and onwhich we continue, for as working for
us, wanting also to influence,that is, that we have supported for
it, so that the judges canmake decisions that really sympathize with the principles,
(20:02):
since basic of the restitution of time. Thank you very much. Having
already spoken on subjects of the lificio, but on issues of illicit use crops,
(20:23):
I want to ask researcher Brian Trianawhat are those actions to highlight what
has implemented the observatory related to Euselysiscrops Hello Carolina. Many thanks to Jesus
He came out, also for ProfessorParada the word professor of Peña, and
to all the people who listen tous. We have intervened or carried out
(20:48):
different actions. Advance actions have beeninvolved in actions that have been presented by
some other communities or organizations on differenttopics of illicit crops, both in policies
of forced establishment through aerial spraying,and also in legal actions that analyzed the
(21:15):
policies of forced settlement manually or inthe policies of substitution. There are different
policies of this institution, different strategiesthat Colombia has implemented. It is not
a replacement, but a establishment ofuseful crops that Colombia has implemented and,
in the face of all of them, legal actions have been presented mainly designed
(21:40):
to defend human rights. How wegot to these, to these actions in
the team of the National University,the Observatory of Lands was launching a research
project in which it aimed to analyzethe transit of illicit economies, legal economies
(22:03):
in periods of t conflict. Itwas a project that was being developed in
three countries, in Afghanistan, Newand Colombia, and in the case of
Colombia, the team of the Observatoryof Lands of the National University was one
of the research groups that was,therefore, analyzing, analyzing that object.
So that we continue we were workingwith communities that were linked to the illicit
(22:33):
crop substitution program that was created inthe Final Peace Agreement and was being implemented
in Colombia. In working to developthis research, we find that, therefore,
in addition to the academic findings thatwere very relevant to us. We
(22:56):
also found a fairly large non-compliance scenario that in the end were impacting
or affecting the fundamental rights of severalof the families that were linked or the
people who were driving these policies withintheir communities. So the Observatory, as
(23:22):
I referred to above in Mosonica,has always kept in mind that we have
to repay in a certain way thepeople who work with us within our research
projects. And we found that suddenlysome of the information we had could translate
(23:45):
it into legal action. Then economicglazgos could be translated into specific actions or
demands that could somehow support the communitieswe were working with. So that was
the challenge. It wasn' teasy at all. First, because the
(24:07):
issue of substitution of crops for illicituse, attacking it through legal action and
trying to show the effects of substitutionpolicies ended up affecting fundamental rights, as
it was not easy at all,in addition to the fact that we did
not have a lot of legal backgroundin that regard. Almost all of the
(24:27):
previous legal actions that have been filedon drug policy issues had been with manual
eradication versions. Then, what waslike the first strategy was to begin to
intervene in legal actions that were discussinghuman rights abuses at that time due to
(24:49):
forced eradication policies and in those actionswe linked or were linking a little bit
the findings we found in the policiesof their situations as well and in the
end, because we decided to presentour own legal actions. We took the
(25:10):
challenge, we said we are notgoing to try to push forward the discussion
on policies at the judicial level isalready substitution itself. We had some findings,
mainly from the results of the surveysthat were carried out both in Tumaco
and at the door. So theyshowed us, they already gave us as
evidence, at least enough to provethat minimum of proof that they have us
(25:33):
at the judicial level in the guardianshipaction and we presented three legal actions,
those representing two community councils of Tumacoand one of a peasant organization. I
mean, actions weren' t easy, they were pretty long, but in
the end we' ve had quiterelevant results. One case in which we
(25:55):
have one of our cases already hasa judgement of final executory second instance,
in which the Court the Council ofState Forgiveness, acknowledged that the fundamental fact
had been affected by substitution policies,mainly or because of non- compliance with
substitution policies, and ordered a numberof measures to the State to try to
(26:21):
modify these human rights violations. Andin addition, we have two more sentences
in the Constitutional Court, two casesof forgiveness in the Constitutional Court. The
Court selected him to come to theConstitutional Court and with this type of case,
as it is not easy, butit was achieved that they were reached,
they were piled up in our file. We are now waiting for a
(26:45):
ruling, because it is quite relevant, because in action from your hotel to
the Constitutional Court, the decisions thatit makes, because they become or have
an expectation of becoming a present,which allows us to promote not only the
defense of the rights of the familiesthat were linked the substitution program with those
(27:08):
we work with, but also thecommunities with which, therefore, we could
not arrive then. This has beenpart of the legal support exercise that guided
the Observatory in the field of drugs. Thank you very much, Brian.
I would like to ask all threeof you already on the ballot in which
(27:30):
you wish to respond, because youbelieve that these actions of the Earth Observatory,
which have been carried out for tenyears, have been and are still
relevant in our context. Come onin. It turns out that many of
(27:51):
these actions are promoted by communities andare not necessarily represented in or, rather,
not necessary, are not represented indifferent decision- making bodies of the
State. Then, if they cannotdeal with their political demands, it becomes
(28:15):
a little difficult and the judicial mechanismshave allowed them to bring these requests to
the State through the judge. Let' s say that' s a positive
(28:36):
aspect, but let' s saythat' s the positive? But he
has a lot of difficulties. Thefirst thing is that, because this requires
capacities that many communities organizations do nothave technical capabilities and, in fact,
are techniques that manage very or asmall population in Colombia. So the fact
that we say institutions like the EarthObservatory can remedy some of these difficulties and
(29:03):
obstacles that these communities have to dealwith these claims through this life, because
it is a rather valuable exercise alsoat the democratic level, and it is
to strengthen politically some of the communitieswith which they work through or helping as
(29:30):
that alternative political way to process theirdemands. Thank you very much. I
don' t know if he wantsto say anything. I think it is
important too because, even though wesee that there is progress in many things,
progress may not be permanent, thatis, everything can always change and
everything can be worse. Not thendo I believe that we should continue to
(29:52):
insist that this recognition of rights bemaintained, the standards behind which legal and
legal criteria are recognized. It isfor me not to know, for example,
to recognize the victim population of thepeasant population that has been violated their
de facto, it will always belike a task that is pending. I
mean, I don' t thinkwe' re ever going to be able
(30:17):
to win 100 percent of those spacesthat we achieved through litigation, through working
with rural populations as well, andthat' s why I think we need
to keep insisting, that is,and leave the President or us all that
we' ve built. We hopethat it will also silva in the future
to build new things, new thingsor to feed new debates. I do
not think that there is a greatvalue there in terms of contributions to public
(30:41):
policy, but also of legal activismalso to the possibility of making, especially
a jurisprudence and judicial decisions that reallyaccount for the context, because in which
we saw and in which the ruralpopulation lives in Colombia. Thank you,
Monican, Professor Roch. I don' t know if I want to add
anything else. I believe that whatwe do in the observatory and from the
(31:07):
legal clinic that we share with theUniversity of Rosario, with the legal office.
We do two things that I thinkare very important, and it is
the training of lawyers in doing thatis, and in doing that in a
way in which we use all thetools available to defend the rights of vulnerable
(31:36):
people or people who have representation tous. And I think that' s
very important, because we were talkingon the other common day that lawyers sometimes
lie brazenly to win a point.And I believe that this training we do
(32:00):
from the clinic, for example,in that you do have ethical limits to
accomplish your tasks and that it isthe right that gives you the tools to
make the rights of the vulnerable,called peasants explicit. I think that'
(32:22):
s very important. Then, onthe one hand, the training of lawyers,
but, on the other hand,also to make the rights of peasants
explicit, is that they not onlyhave formal rights, but that of that
rights in materials. Then I thinkthat' s why we' re doing
(32:45):
an interesting job. I do notwant to say that it is our bit
of sand, because sometimes the eyesof others fall, but I think that
if it is an important point thatwe make from the observatum with our feet
on the ground, it is producedby the Earth Observatory. Well, thanks
(33:12):
to the teacher dew Professor Brian's mónica teacher for accompanying us in this
episode, Nelson Duarte from the MasterControl and b a Rosario Radio for making
this space possible We also thank thosewho tune our signal. Remember to visit
our website trifu Org Earth Observatory tolisten to more of our episodes and exceed
(33:35):
our publications. They forget to followus on our social networks. In typer
they find us as arrobaterras observes andon Facebook how facebook com slash lands observed.
Until the next day. Poyos placedin the land of indigenous communities aged
in several regions of the country onemillion hectares of forest and have been deforested
(33:57):
in the last twenty- eight yearsnuns Colombia as a result of drug trafficking,
illegal mining and the excessive use ofland for livestock. The second judge
of the restitution of alien lands threatenedto send a victim to the prosecution for
claiming his rights before his office.He' s tired of hearing this for
(34:20):
years. You knew that in Colombiaone percent of the population occupies eighty-
one percent of the land, whileninety- nine percent of the land is
blamed by the other nineteen percent ofthe population. I knew that only twenty
- six percent of the productive unitsare headed by women. A radio rosary
(34:40):
and the Earth Observatory presented with theirfeet on the ground a space to expand
the dialogue on Colombian property and countryside. S
Conflicts over the land of indigenous communitiesoccur in several regions of the country.
One million hectares of forest have beendeforested in Colombia in the last twenty-
eight years as a result of drugtrafficking, illegal mining and the excessive use
of land for livestock. The secondjudge of restitution of land of an antioque
section threatened to send to the prosecutiona victim for claiming his rights before his
(00:25):
office, how about this is tiredof hearing this for years. You knew
that in Colombia one percent of thepopulation occupies eighty- one percent of the
land, while ninety- nine percentof the land is blamed by the other
nineteen percent of the population. Iknew that only twenty- six percent of
(00:47):
the productive units are headed by women. A Rosario Radio and the Observatorio de
Tierras present with their feet on Eartha space to expand the dialogue on Colombian
property and countryside. Or welcome andwelcome to our program with the Feet on
(01:25):
Earth carried out by the Observatory ofLands in alliance with the digital waves of
the Institutional Issue of the University ofRosario or Rosario Radio. Today, at
the working table I meet a professordew peña, academic coordinator of the Observatory
of Lands, researcher Brai Anteriana andresearcher María Mónica. For my name is
Carolina Crosby and I will be accompanyingyou in this episode. Remember that you
(01:48):
can listen to us on the websiteof the radio station w U rosario co
or on the streamung platform of yourchoice, where you can access and download
our episodes. Don' t forgetto follow us on our other social networks.
On Twitter they find us as Earthswatches and on Facebook we are like
Facebook com glash Observed Lands. Inthe Master Control we are accompanied by Duarte
(02:09):
and in the General Direction of theradio station Mario Castro. Welcome and welcome
to the Earth Observatory, or youcan follow on Twitter and Facebook as Arroba
Tierras observes. Today' s episodeis very important to us because we are
(02:43):
celebrating the ten years of the EarthObservatory. It is already ten years where
our interdisciplinary team, made up ofmathematicians, political scientists, economists, lawyers,
sociologists and topologists, have investigated issuesof agrarian reform, agrarian law,
land restitution, drug policy without muchmore is and we hope that much more
research will come. Our first podcastwas aired by Rosario Radio on August 14,
(03:05):
2000, and this has been themedium by which for more than four
years we have talked about topics wherewe want to explain to the audience in
a simpler way all our research.But it has also been the platform where
we share our outcome. Today Imeet with the legal team of the Universidad
del Rosario and I would like tostart by asking Professor Rocío Peña. Yes,
(03:28):
you can tell us a brief summaryof where the idea or the need
to create or found the Earth Observatoryarose and what was the context in which
this creation took place. Thank youCarolina for the invitation and thank you to
my fellow officers. Or today,as for today, for the usual reason,
(03:49):
the Observatory of Tiberra arises in thecontext of a call made by the
other Ministry of Science and Technology,which at the time was consciences and of
the concern that both Prof Gutiérrez andI and other researchers from other universities had,
(04:12):
with the role that the State hadin regulating the regulation of rural property
rights in Colombia, there was abackground, as were the third twenty-
five sentence of the two thousand four, which is now being fulfilled. In
(04:33):
these days I was serving twenty yearsand there was also about two thousand eight
two thousand nine, a bill thatsought the restitution of land and that we
say that it was sunk at thelast moment because the national government of the
(04:56):
then President Uribe sunk the proposal thenin that two thousand eleven, while we
were looking with amazement at the new, political, social changes, consciences,
makes this call and we think tojoin with universities of the province, as
(05:23):
are the University of Shin today atthe University of the North, and with
the Department of Mathematics of the UniversitySector Boleda, the National University, at
the Universidad Rosario, to make atemporary union and present ourselves to that call
and within the framework of that callthat more or less for the money at
(05:48):
the time were about, six zeromillion pesos of that time. It is
not from today, because we enterwith six very rough research projects and one
thing that happens is that property rightsbecause they necessarily go through the law and
(06:10):
all of them. This and thefact that we were an interdisciplinary group allowed
us to realize the importance of thislegal dimension and that, if we wanted
to better understand the legal problem ofthose institutions that regulate property, it was
(06:31):
necessary to talk to owners and peasants, who are basically the people who interact
with us. And that is wherethe need to set up a legal clinic
from the observatory arises and in thismonic from the beginning. Yeah, that
(06:53):
one- of- a- kindclinic. What you were basically looking for
was to understand the prons judicial problemsthat led to these normative institutions and to
make impact litigation and to do asimpact interventions in the High Courts, but
(07:18):
also in the Congress of the Republic. And that is how this path that
we have here today begins. Letus say already with a more consolidated legal
clinic and that is part of thelegal clinercas, not only of the Observatory
that has always been, but nowof the constructor and legal of the University
(07:44):
of Rosario. Or we invite youto keep your feet on the ground.
(08:22):
Thank you. I think it'll be dew. I would like to
ask how over the course of theseten years the Land Observatory and the research
that has done good have been fundedand sustained. Thank you, Carlina.
Basically the first impulse was given tous by the Ministry of Science Technology.
(08:43):
We started very early at the endof the two thousand and thirteen. So,
in two thousand and fourteen we reallyhave like the first things they'
re going to show and that's why we' re celebrating the ten
years and I' m projecting thatresearch program. He felt he had funding
for the professors and professors of theseuniversities that allowed us to train human resources
(09:09):
in science and technology and, therefore, very robust research results that we will
surely talk about in another program whenthe money and the temporary union was finished,
because the Observatory was like what beganfrom the beginning, which is a
(09:35):
network of researchers from different universities.So, for example, right now we
are with the Javeriana University and Caliand Bogotá, with the National University and
with the Rosario and we are financingourselves through research projects and programs that finance
public entities in Colombia, private internationalagencies, such as the UK Difi,
(10:05):
which financed a project of the NationalUniversity, the Fur of the University of
Rosario has also financed us and theMinistry of Science and Technology has funded us.
I believe that and after that greatproject between the National University at Rosario
las Adriana University, I think aboutfour or five more projects. Thank you,
(10:31):
Professor dew. I would like toask how the Earth Observatory and the
research that has done good have beenfunded and sustained over these ten years.
Thank you, Carolina. Basically thefirst impulse was given to us by the
Ministry of Science Technology. We startedvery early at the end of the two
(10:54):
thousand and thirteen. So, intwo thousand and fourteen we really have like
the first things to show and that' s why we' re celebrating the
ten years and project. This researchprogram allowed us to have funding for the
professors and professors of these universities,which allowed us to train human resources and
(11:16):
science and technology and because very robustresearch results that we will surely talk about
in another program when the money andthe temporary union was ended, because the
(11:37):
Observatory was like what began from thebeginning that is a network of researchers from
different universities. So, for example, at this moment we are with the
University of Javeriana and Calli and Bogotá, with the National University and with Rosal
and we are financed through research projectsand programs that finance public entities in Colombia,
(12:05):
private entities international agencies, such asthat of England, that financed project
of the National University, the fourof the University of Rosario has also financed
us and the Ministry of Science andTechnology has financed us. I believe that
(12:28):
and after that great project between theNational University at the Universidad Rosario las Adriana,
I believe that about four or fivemore projects, we are all the
time trying to seek resources and Ibelieve that not only what we do is
important in terms of public policy ofrestitution of land, distribution of land,
(12:54):
everything that has to do with thepeasantry, but also in the formation of
human talent, in quantitative research,in qualitative. Let us say that the
Observatory itself has developed I do notsay innovative methodologies, but has made innovations
(13:16):
to methodologies specific to the social sciences, in quantitative, qualitative and mixed methods.
And that has allowed us that thisnetwork that is to be said,
thanks to the pure thrust of theresearchers and that the faculty of jurisprudence of
(13:37):
the rosary supports us with physical space, by lending us everything we need to
lend it to us. Thanks tothat support, we can stay here and
hope to stay here for at leastanother ten years. Thank you very much,
(14:05):
Professor Rocío. Professor Rocío mentioned thatresearcher Mónica Parada had been since the
beginning in the creation and implementation ofthe legal clinic. I would like to
ask Monica Parada, then, whatthese important actions have been carried out by
the Land Observatory through litigation on legrestitution issues. Thank you Carolina, thank
(14:30):
you Profe and the Teacherabián also forthe space, because yes, I had
the opportunity of just graduating to workdirectly at the Observatory and because it was
a time when we were also doingas a strategic plan to see where there
could be incidences of institutional waste.I remember very well that there was a
(14:50):
specific objective always in the reports ofconscience, which was that of modification or
impact on institutional designs for the regulationof agrarian property. And we started to
kind of dig into what was themove at the time in terms of public
policy. I do not agree,therefore, more or less like with the
entry or the first years, ratherwith the policy of land restitution, and
(15:13):
we started to do it almost followup in real time with the policy of
land restitution. For us it wasvery interesting because, because in the restitution
of land we had as the componentof the administrative phase that we analyzed from
the perspective of what the State does, the executive to advance in the documentation
of the cases and in the collection, not only avoid but as a little
(15:37):
mapping the whole issue of dispossession.At that time, or that was what
was in the matter of dispossession,but we also had a judicial party that
for us was much more interesting,because they were the judges, entering directly
into the implementation of such an importantpublic policy for the victims of the country.
So let' s say we starteddoing a little follow- up.
(16:00):
First with the sentences. We startedto collect all the sentences we saw to
identify some patterns suddenly we became veryinterested in the figurative, because in the
restitution of land and from there webegan to arrive, let' s say
cases that were suddenly working colleagues inother NGOs. Then we began to get
into the subject not only of theanalysis of the restitution of land, but
(16:22):
already in the incidence of the restitutionof land, and then I made an
impact in terms of how to moveforward, for that or how to help
shape a bit the jurisprudence in frontof the t Then I remember well that
one of our first cases that wedid not come to us, but that
(16:42):
from a very judicious reading of thelaw, we saw that there was as
a rule that departs from your initialdesign that conditioned, for example, the
economic compensation of the victims of therestitution of land or the material restitution forgiveness.
It conditioned the material restitution of theproperties to those who were declared as
(17:03):
victims of dispossession and forced abandonment.They conditioned that restitution to the fact that
if there was a third party there, he had to wait for this third
party to be paid to leave theproperty and there if they handed him over
to the victims. And we,just this idea, like that orientation that
we had of such a law,must really respond to the needs of the
(17:25):
victims. We filed an action ofunconstitutionality against that norm, which, because
we won We think it important,moreover, because the team of the clinic,
because we were all junior lawyers recentlygraduated and it was the same because
coordinated. For us, then,as recently as Gradus, it was extremely
important as having been able to litigatebefore the Constitutional Court and that the Court
(17:48):
also gave us the right not tomake restitution conditional on payment of compensation by
a third party, since the violationof the rights of the victims. That
was like a first big win,that s s s. S. S.
S. It was very important andfrom there we also started not so
much the litigation we did focused onthe constitutionality of the law and one later
(18:08):
as they began to reach us ascases already more to support the itio that
other colleagues were doing in other organizations, one of these that we accompanied from
the beginning was the case of theFranciscas, which is a case of dispossession
that occurred in the Magdalena. Andthere, then, in this case what
we were doing were interventions first beforethe courts. It was a case that
(18:29):
the Tribunal had to say. There, yes, from Cartagena, and we
started to take action to encourage theTribunal to make decisions because, in addition
to Timus, it was delaying alot. Then we were behind, insisting,
therefore, that the dispossession had beenconfigured, that there are some victims
are clear and that the right ofrestitution of land was, because it was
(18:52):
very clear that it had to berecognized by the Huest that case, well,
then it was ruled in court andafter the judgment let' s say
phase in quotation marks. The endbegan all a series of actions before the
high courts to reverse the effects ofthat case. And we were also promoting
through citizen interventions from the clinic,and the last one we did was in
(19:17):
December last year, in a requestfor the annulment of a sentence that made
the constitutional accord in which, inour opinion, was reversing much of the
jurisprudence, which has been favorable tothe victims in this matter. What is
meant by dispossession and what is meantby the standards that must or should have
(19:38):
met Who were made to the stonesin the context of the conflict and then
we carry That is one of thosecases that we have accompanied, since the
beginning of the legal clinic and onwhich we continue, for as working for
us, wanting also to influence,that is, that we have supported for
it, so that the judges canmake decisions that really sympathize with the principles,
(20:02):
since basic of the restitution of time. Thank you very much. Having
already spoken on subjects of the lificio, but on issues of illicit use crops,
(20:23):
I want to ask researcher Brian Trianawhat are those actions to highlight what
has implemented the observatory related to Euselysiscrops Hello Carolina. Many thanks to Jesus
He came out, also for ProfessorParada the word professor of Peña, and
to all the people who listen tous. We have intervened or carried out
(20:48):
different actions. Advance actions have beeninvolved in actions that have been presented by
some other communities or organizations on differenttopics of illicit crops, both in policies
of forced establishment through aerial spraying,and also in legal actions that analyzed the
(21:15):
policies of forced settlement manually or inthe policies of substitution. There are different
policies of this institution, different strategiesthat Colombia has implemented. It is not
a replacement, but a establishment ofuseful crops that Colombia has implemented and,
in the face of all of them, legal actions have been presented mainly designed
(21:40):
to defend human rights. How wegot to these, to these actions in
the team of the National University,the Observatory of Lands was launching a research
project in which it aimed to analyzethe transit of illicit economies, legal economies
(22:03):
in periods of t conflict. Itwas a project that was being developed in
three countries, in Afghanistan, Newand Colombia, and in the case of
Colombia, the team of the Observatoryof Lands of the National University was one
of the research groups that was,therefore, analyzing, analyzing that object.
So that we continue we were workingwith communities that were linked to the illicit
(22:33):
crop substitution program that was created inthe Final Peace Agreement and was being implemented
in Colombia. In working to developthis research, we find that, therefore,
in addition to the academic findings thatwere very relevant to us. We
(22:56):
also found a fairly large non-compliance scenario that in the end were impacting
or affecting the fundamental rights of severalof the families that were linked or the
people who were driving these policies withintheir communities. So the Observatory, as
(23:22):
I referred to above in Mosonica,has always kept in mind that we have
to repay in a certain way thepeople who work with us within our research
projects. And we found that suddenlysome of the information we had could translate
(23:45):
it into legal action. Then economicglazgos could be translated into specific actions or
demands that could somehow support the communitieswe were working with. So that was
the challenge. It wasn' teasy at all. First, because the
(24:07):
issue of substitution of crops for illicituse, attacking it through legal action and
trying to show the effects of substitutionpolicies ended up affecting fundamental rights, as
it was not easy at all,in addition to the fact that we did
not have a lot of legal backgroundin that regard. Almost all of the
(24:27):
previous legal actions that have been filedon drug policy issues had been with manual
eradication versions. Then, what waslike the first strategy was to begin to
intervene in legal actions that were discussinghuman rights abuses at that time due to
(24:49):
forced eradication policies and in those actionswe linked or were linking a little bit
the findings we found in the policiesof their situations as well and in the
end, because we decided to presentour own legal actions. We took the
(25:10):
challenge, we said we are notgoing to try to push forward the discussion
on policies at the judicial level isalready substitution itself. We had some findings,
mainly from the results of the surveysthat were carried out both in Tumaco
and at the door. So theyshowed us, they already gave us as
evidence, at least enough to provethat minimum of proof that they have us
(25:33):
at the judicial level in the guardianshipaction and we presented three legal actions,
those representing two community councils of Tumacoand one of a peasant organization. I
mean, actions weren' t easy, they were pretty long, but in
the end we' ve had quiterelevant results. One case in which we
(25:55):
have one of our cases already hasa judgement of final executory second instance,
in which the Court the Council ofState Forgiveness, acknowledged that the fundamental fact
had been affected by substitution policies,mainly or because of non- compliance with
substitution policies, and ordered a numberof measures to the State to try to
(26:21):
modify these human rights violations. Andin addition, we have two more sentences
in the Constitutional Court, two casesof forgiveness in the Constitutional Court. The
Court selected him to come to theConstitutional Court and with this type of case,
as it is not easy, butit was achieved that they were reached,
they were piled up in our file. We are now waiting for a
(26:45):
ruling, because it is quite relevant, because in action from your hotel to
the Constitutional Court, the decisions thatit makes, because they become or have
an expectation of becoming a present,which allows us to promote not only the
defense of the rights of the familiesthat were linked the substitution program with those
(27:08):
we work with, but also thecommunities with which, therefore, we could
not arrive then. This has beenpart of the legal support exercise that guided
the Observatory in the field of drugs. Thank you very much, Brian.
I would like to ask all threeof you already on the ballot in which
(27:30):
you wish to respond, because youbelieve that these actions of the Earth Observatory,
which have been carried out for tenyears, have been and are still
relevant in our context. Come onin. It turns out that many of
(27:51):
these actions are promoted by communities andare not necessarily represented in or, rather,
not necessary, are not represented indifferent decision- making bodies of the
State. Then, if they cannotdeal with their political demands, it becomes
(28:15):
a little difficult and the judicial mechanismshave allowed them to bring these requests to
the State through the judge. Let' s say that' s a positive
(28:36):
aspect, but let' s saythat' s the positive? But he
has a lot of difficulties. Thefirst thing is that, because this requires
capacities that many communities organizations do nothave technical capabilities and, in fact,
are techniques that manage very or asmall population in Colombia. So the fact
that we say institutions like the EarthObservatory can remedy some of these difficulties and
(29:03):
obstacles that these communities have to dealwith these claims through this life, because
it is a rather valuable exercise alsoat the democratic level, and it is
to strengthen politically some of the communitieswith which they work through or helping as
(29:30):
that alternative political way to process theirdemands. Thank you very much. I
don' t know if he wantsto say anything. I think it is
important too because, even though wesee that there is progress in many things,
progress may not be permanent, thatis, everything can always change and
everything can be worse. Not thendo I believe that we should continue to
(29:52):
insist that this recognition of rights bemaintained, the standards behind which legal and
legal criteria are recognized. It isfor me not to know, for example,
to recognize the victim population of thepeasant population that has been violated their
de facto, it will always belike a task that is pending. I
mean, I don' t thinkwe' re ever going to be able
(30:17):
to win 100 percent of those spacesthat we achieved through litigation, through working
with rural populations as well, andthat' s why I think we need
to keep insisting, that is,and leave the President or us all that
we' ve built. We hopethat it will also silva in the future
to build new things, new thingsor to feed new debates. I do
not think that there is a greatvalue there in terms of contributions to public
(30:41):
policy, but also of legal activismalso to the possibility of making, especially
a jurisprudence and judicial decisions that reallyaccount for the context, because in which
we saw and in which the ruralpopulation lives in Colombia. Thank you,
Monican, Professor Roch. I don' t know if I want to add
anything else. I believe that whatwe do in the observatory and from the
(31:07):
legal clinic that we share with theUniversity of Rosario, with the legal office.
We do two things that I thinkare very important, and it is
the training of lawyers in doing thatis, and in doing that in a
way in which we use all thetools available to defend the rights of vulnerable
(31:36):
people or people who have representation tous. And I think that' s
very important, because we were talkingon the other common day that lawyers sometimes
lie brazenly to win a point.And I believe that this training we do
(32:00):
from the clinic, for example,in that you do have ethical limits to
accomplish your tasks and that it isthe right that gives you the tools to
make the rights of the vulnerable,called peasants explicit. I think that'
(32:22):
s very important. Then, onthe one hand, the training of lawyers,
but, on the other hand,also to make the rights of peasants
explicit, is that they not onlyhave formal rights, but that of that
rights in materials. Then I thinkthat' s why we' re doing
(32:45):
an interesting job. I do notwant to say that it is our bit
of sand, because sometimes the eyesof others fall, but I think that
if it is an important point thatwe make from the observatum with our feet
on the ground, it is producedby the Earth Observatory. Well, thanks
(33:12):
to the teacher dew Professor Brian's mónica teacher for accompanying us in this
episode, Nelson Duarte from the MasterControl and b a Rosario Radio for making
this space possible We also thank thosewho tune our signal. Remember to visit
our website trifu Org Earth Observatory tolisten to more of our episodes and exceed
(33:35):
our publications. They forget to followus on our social networks. In typer
they find us as arrobaterras observes andon Facebook how facebook com slash lands observed.
Until the next day. Poyos placedin the land of indigenous communities aged
in several regions of the country onemillion hectares of forest and have been deforested
(33:57):
in the last twenty- eight yearsnuns Colombia as a result of drug trafficking,
illegal mining and the excessive use ofland for livestock. The second judge
of the restitution of alien lands threatenedto send a victim to the prosecution for
claiming his rights before his office.He' s tired of hearing this for
(34:20):
years. You knew that in Colombiaone percent of the population occupies eighty-
one percent of the land, whileninety- nine percent of the land is
blamed by the other nineteen percent ofthe population. I knew that only twenty
- six percent of the productive unitsare headed by women. A radio rosary
(34:40):
and the Earth Observatory presented with theirfeet on the ground a space to expand
the dialogue on Colombian property and countryside. S
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