July 22, 2019 • 33 mins
Many people never suspect their spouse is seeing someone else. They’ve never imagined it. They’ve never thought about what happens when you discover your spouse is unfaithful.
Yet, infidelity is often a factor in divorce. The Institute for Family Studies reports that among ever-married adults who have cheated on their spouses before, 40% are currently divorced or separated compared to 17% of adults who were faithful to their spouse.
That underscores the devastating impact that infidelity has on a relationship.
For the cheated on, it can mean grief, trauma, PTSD, depression, anxiety and fear. Any of these can make deciding what to do about your marriage challenging. If you do decide to divorce, that process is even harder because of these emotions.
So, what can you do in the moments after you discover your relationship now involves three people? What can you expect to feel? How do you take care of yourself?
Joining me for this Conversation About Divorce is Melissa Davis, founder of AfterTheAffair.co which offers support for people looking to heal from their partner’s unfaithfulness.
You'll find a synopsis of the show at my blog: https://sincemydivorce.com/what-happens-when-you-discover-your-spouse-is-unfaithful
Yet, infidelity is often a factor in divorce. The Institute for Family Studies reports that among ever-married adults who have cheated on their spouses before, 40% are currently divorced or separated compared to 17% of adults who were faithful to their spouse.
That underscores the devastating impact that infidelity has on a relationship.
For the cheated on, it can mean grief, trauma, PTSD, depression, anxiety and fear. Any of these can make deciding what to do about your marriage challenging. If you do decide to divorce, that process is even harder because of these emotions.
So, what can you do in the moments after you discover your relationship now involves three people? What can you expect to feel? How do you take care of yourself?
Joining me for this Conversation About Divorce is Melissa Davis, founder of AfterTheAffair.co which offers support for people looking to heal from their partner’s unfaithfulness.
You'll find a synopsis of the show at my blog: https://sincemydivorce.com/what-happens-when-you-discover-your-spouse-is-unfaithful
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Getting a divorce. Even thinking aboutgetting a divorce can be overwhelming, scary,
and sometimes exciting. Join divorce coachand mediator Mandy Walker for conversations about
divorce. The more you know,the easier it will be to make your
divorce healthier, less trustful, andto put it behind you. Here's Mandy.
Welcome to the Conversations about divorce.I'm Mandy Walker, and today we're
(00:25):
talking about discovering your spouse's infidelity.Infidelity is often a factor in divorce.
The Institute for Family Studies reports theamong ever married adults who have cheated on
their spouses before, forty percent arecurrently divorced or separated, compared to seventeen
percent of adults who were faithful totheir spouse. That underscores the devastating impact
(00:49):
that infidelity has on a relationship.For the cheated on, it can mean
grief, trauma, PTSD, depression, anxiety, and fear, which can
make deciding what to do about yourrelationship challenging. And if you do decide
to divorce, that process is evenharder. While you're dealing with all of
(01:11):
those emotions. What happens when youdiscover that your spouse has been unfaithful.
What are the emotions that you canexpect? What are the first things that
you should do well? My guesttoday is Melissa Davis, founder of After
the Affair dot Co, which offerssupport for people looking to heal from their
partner's unfaithfulness. Welcome Melissa, Thankyou, thanks so much for having me.
(01:34):
Melissa, I wondered if you wouldbe willing to briefly share your story.
Yeah, so for me, yearsago, I had a newborn baby
as three year old, and Ihad my best friend's husband actually called me
and told me, hey, ifit was me, I would want to
know. I found some text messagesand their stuff going on, and for
(01:57):
me, I just decided to bea stay at home mother. You know,
I was nursing my baby. Iwas very vulnerable, independent on my
partner, and I had no ideaat all that this was happening. You
know. I packed up my kidsand the dog and I drove six or
(02:22):
seven hours away and stayed with mygrandmother for a week. And I do
not remember that week. It wasjust my grandmother kept my children alive and
I I just took showers. Igrew upd you myself. I felt very
dirty it was interesting to me.I mean, my skin was drawl and
(02:46):
I had somehow all of that shameand those poor choices. It's like it
just leached onto me and I justsobbed and showered constantly for a week straight
and so and I kind stayed therea lot of As time went on,
I found out more and more thatother people were involved in a lot of
(03:06):
them were people I knew. SoI felt very afraid, even more so
because I didn't think I could trust, you know, my friends that I
loved. So yeah, for me, it was a very alone, very
scary time. I was really strugglingwith shame, and I thought that I
(03:27):
just wasn't enough, and I justthink it. I was told this as
well over the years. I wasn'tfun enough, my musical case wasn't cool
enough. I wasn't pretty enough orexciting enough, just enough, And then
we do that to ourselves anyway,right, So I didn't need to be
thrilled that I was going to doit. So yeah, it was a
very scary and a very isolating timefor me. Melissa. I have so
(03:53):
many questions about your experience, andthank you for sharing that painful story.
But I was curious, did yourfriend's husband do the right thing reaching out
to you? If you knew afriend's spouse was being unfaithful, would you
tell your friend? Absolutely? Iwould every time. Actually, I had
(04:16):
a gut feeling about one of myfriend's husbands, and I did decide to
tell her, and I think ithurt our relationship a little bit. We
weren't super close, but I toldher and then she distanced herself from MESO.
And then about seven months later everythingcame out and my gut was correct.
(04:38):
So just guessing it's probably not thebest idea, but if you know,
I think absolutely you should share thatadvice, that information. I mean,
think about just the passing of STDsalone, like you need to protect
other people from what they don't know, especially with their physical health. Right.
Wow. And then when you saidthat you had found out that your
(05:03):
husband had actually had multiple affairs,does that make a difference? I mean
also taking into account with your conversationswith other people that have been cheated on.
Does does that somehow create a differentemotional reaction is a single affair versus
multiple affairs? And does that multipleaffairs put it into a realm of more
(05:27):
of an addiction. You know thatthere's a lot of answers to that.
I think the pain that we gothrough whether our partner cheaps with one or
twenty people is the same. Ithink that the questioning about for example,
if you're told it's one person andthen you find out three, you question
(05:50):
more about your perceived reality. Yeah, you know, especially like if you
find out about an affair, nomatter how many people are involved, you're
like, when I was visiting mydad in the hospital and you said you
had to work late, where wereyou? So you question everything of your
experiences, little details that don't trulymatter, but you're like, hey,
(06:12):
it's like the lights come on.But I do think that there is you
know, obviously there's a greater riskfor getting diseases if there's a lot of
people involved, and that feeling ofdistrust if you're trying to repair of relationship
and you kind of I call itthe waterfall effect when you keep finding out
about stuff and they're not honest whenyou say is that at um? I
(06:35):
think that makes it very hard torepair relationship because you know you're in the
depth of this trauma and the shockof finding out, and yet they're still
choosing to lie about all the details. But now I think the process of
heel is the same. Do youthink that they lie about the details because
(06:56):
they're trying to spall you somehow don'twant to face the truth themselves. I'd
say probably both, you know,and I can just speculate about how.
You know. I haven't made thatchoice myself, but I think for me,
I was, you know, hewas trying to protect me and also
damage control, like if this isall she knows, then maybe she'll stay
(07:17):
kind of thing. But now Ithink that the motives behind that are going
to be really different. Some peoplejust want to control the situation. A
lot of people after the affair figureout that there's a lot of manipulation and
psychological abuse going on, and theyreally couldn't see it before, and so
(07:38):
once they realize that they see,you know, their motives might be different
from what they first perceived as maybebeing a little bit more protective. Instead
it's like manipulative and abusive. It'sreally hard to stay there, all right.
That's that's interesting. So you geta different perspective. Because one of
my questions was, if you discoverthat the infidelity has been going on for
(08:03):
a long time. Then I imaginethat you then have to grapple with what
part of your marriage was real orit's that thinking, well, you know,
I thought that we were that wasa happy vacation, but you were
talking to this person where we wereon vacation, So you know, does
that mean that what I thought wasa happy vacation isn't true anymore? No,
(08:28):
not necessarily. It's interesting in thebeginning when you find out you've become
a little bit obsessed with those details, and there's realization because it's for you,
it's it's new. And I wentthrough that, you know, I
did question that fun vacation and foundout the reality behind it. And for
(08:48):
me, some of those things,the bigger events that happened, I don't
want to see pictures from that vacationanymore, and it's kind of painful.
But other things, you know,the children that came from it. You
know, that's kind of general,but there's other stuff where the memory of
what they did fade some over time. It feels impossible in the beginning,
(09:13):
but now I don't think it changesit necessarily unless something big, really painful
happens. I think that that paincan trump it. But but overall,
I think you can still claim someof that happiness for yourself and decide that
you know, for me, thatwas good, right? Right? Does
it make a difference if the affairis over as opposed to still going on.
(09:37):
I think it does make a difference. But the issue is trust.
If they say the affair is over, how do you know? I mean,
it's a pool off. An affairof any length of time, you
have to lie and manipulate your partnerto get away with it. And so
when they say it's over, howdo you know that? And it's not
(10:01):
your job to become a detective.We all sort of try to do that
because we don't trust, so wego crazy and stock emails and social media
profiles and check stuff and higher pis, you know, whatever we do.
But that just feeds into that thatfear and that anxiety for us. And
(10:22):
so it's very hard. That's areally hard place to be. Do you
have suggestions for how somebody should dealwith that. It's it's almost like you're
saying, you go through this wantingto know all the details, but at
some point you have to accept thatyou won't know all the details. You
(10:43):
can't know all the details and itdoesn't help you anyway. Yeah, you
know, it's it's difficult. Ithink everyone's wired differently. For me,
I wanted to know what I wasforgiving. I wanted to know all the
details what I is choosing to forgive, because I did choose to try to
work it out for almost a fullyear. We tried, and so some
(11:07):
people don't want to know. Ithink that overall what happens is the more
details you know, the more thingscan trigger you in the future. Of
one of our subscribers, she knewshe saw this beautiful perfume gift box in
her husband's car and she thought,oh, he's giving it to me for
(11:28):
Christmas. Well, Christmas came andwent and she did not receive that perfume.
And then when she found out atthe fair a year later, she
knew he didn't have to tell her. She knew what that was for.
And so for her, anytime shesees or smells that perfume, that's a
trigger and it just brings everything,all that pain and everything just piles back
(11:50):
on her. And so the lessthat you do know, the less opportunities
there are for you to have thingstriggering for you which will help you.
But in all honesty, even ifyou don't know a lot of details,
here's what we do. We makethem up, you know, we just
assume. We assume, because especiallyif we're women, then actually their works
(12:15):
with men too, But I seewomen doing this more. You know,
we just create what happened in ourhead, whether we find out or not.
So it's hard. It's I thinkthat's really a person by person basis
what you feel you need. Butgoing on a mission to find out every
detail and stock the other person andknow what they like and what's interesting about
(12:37):
them, that's not helpful. Andalso it doesn't matter about that other person.
And this is really about you andyour heart, your healing here,
right. And when you had shedyour story, you had said that one
of the people was involved was yourbest friend, and then you discovered other
(12:58):
friends were involved. I mean thatseems like that's a kind of a double
wami there, because you've been cheatedon by many people, people that you
trusted. Yeah, it's not agood time, that's for sure. And
I remember even saying to my verybest fule sister, a friend who was
(13:24):
not involved with my husband, Iremember asking her more than once, really
honestly, like, were you everinvolved with him? And she said now?
And it took me a while totruly believe it, and so you
know, that was my sounding board. And I lost her because because of
this, you know, lack oftrust just for general people, with the
(13:45):
way it worked out for me,because you pulled back from that friendship.
Oh yeah, I when I saidI slated myself, I like dug a
hole and didn't come out because Ijust truly thought everyone was bad and everybody
was, you know, buying tome and I do and not to mention
(14:05):
like I had a new baby,so I had that reason to stay in
any way and take care of her, and so I would postpartum and fully
afraid of everybody around me. Wow, Melissa, we're going to take a
short break here, but I havea lot more questions for you. Great.
(14:26):
Thank you. You're listening to conversationsabout divorce. I'm Mandy Walker,
and today we're talking about discovering yourspouse's infidelity. My guest today is Melissa
Davis, founder of After the Affairdot Co, which offers support for people
looking to heal from their partner's unfaithfulness. Melissa, would you like to share
(14:46):
with our listeners what your platform offers. Sure, yeah, you know,
I created after the affair specifically feelinga need that you know I needed.
I see a lot of programs outthere for healing marriages or helping a sex
addict. I don't see a lotfor just me, just the person who
(15:09):
is cheated on, because to gothrough so much trauma and struggle so desperately
with anxiety, flashbacks and triggers thatit just takes over your life. And
so after the affair was created veryspecifically to heal the cheated person. I
(15:31):
actually partnered with two amazing therapists there. They're the best out there for this
type of work. There's somebody Icould never have afforded myself, or I
was too embarrassed to reach out toyou probably in the beginning. And so
the three of us have all ofour different perspectives and advice together. So
(15:52):
it's it's these weekly videos eight weeksworth, where we walk you through these
these big items needed to be addressedwhile you're healing from an affair. We
don't push you to stay in arelationship or to leave a relationship, but
we do believe that that's a massivedecision to be made. It may just
(16:17):
affect you, it'll affect your familyand your friends, but that decision needs
to be made from a place ofhealing and health and clarity. Clarity feels
impossible, guys when you're dealing withthis, and so that's what we do.
That's what we're praised for giving peopledirection and hope and guidance. So
(16:40):
it's very different. It's very interesting. One of the therapists is she actually
lost her daughter and then a weeklater found out that her husband had been
unfaithful, and so her advice isvery She doesn't just she's not just a
therapist that teaches it. She knowsits soul. Yea and Melissa, what
(17:00):
is the u r L. It'safter the Affair dot co. Yeah,
okay, you can find us onFacebook and Instagram too, but after the
Fair dot co where you can kindof great. Um, it sounds like
an amazing resources one that will helpa lot of people through this this pain.
Before the break, you were talkingabout how you really dug a hole
(17:23):
for yourself and you isolated yourself.Um. I'm wondering if that's what you
would really recommend to people based onyour experience and your work with the other
therapists. Heck, no, youdon't do it. It's a terrible idea,
(17:45):
you know. On our in Afterthe Affair, on our video,
we always laugh. I basically tellpeople go do what I did. Here's
what I did. It's a terribleidea, and that's one of them.
Um, you know what, Ithought. There's a lot of places to
reach out for help, but Ihonestly thought I was the only person on
earth going through this in my world. That was true, And so reaching
(18:08):
out to support groups. If yougo to After the Affair on Facebook,
you'll immediately find that we have asupport group. So going places like that
where you can talk to other peopleand see like, oh, I'm not
the only one that really helps.But but isolation, it just gives you
more of an opportunity for the anxietyand the racing thoughts to go crazy.
(18:33):
And I would think that it definitelydon't do that, and that that in
a voice. It's like if you'vebeen told for so many years that you're
not enough, I mean that thatvoice you're in, a critic voice can
just run rampant. If you're isolatingyourself. Yes, it's a nightmare situation.
Don't do it okay, so don'tdo it so? So kind of
(18:56):
a related question, I'm curious howmuch do you tell other people and friends
about what's going on or do youkeep it private. I think this is
kind of wrapped up with feeling shameand embarrassment, but understanding Actually you know,
heck, you know, I'm notresponsible for keeping my spouse's choices secret.
(19:18):
You know, that's a really goodquestion. There's a lot of ways
to look at that. The firstway is if you have children with this
person, you're going to be hurtand you're gonna be angry. But you
do need to think about what yousay to whom and how it's going to
affect your children, and so findingI think it's best to find a handful
(19:40):
of people that you you know,know and love and trust. You know
they're not gonna go spread the word. Even when we live in bigger cities.
It's crazy how the word just spreadso quickly. Especially if you do
separate or divorce, people will talk, right, So what you say matters,
especially you have children, um,and so be mindful of that.
(20:03):
Uh. If you do decide toreconcile, it's really hard. I felt
this with myself. It's really hard, you know, you want to be
able to tell your family. Forme, I'm very close to my grandmother
and so it becomes hard for thosepeople to forgive. Yes, they'll have
to do it too. So Idon't think you should run around town and
(20:26):
tell the whole world. Don't takeout a billboard in your neighborhood just for
revenge sake. That's where you reallywant to look. Get your motives are
trying to get revenge, trying toget pity, Oh he did this and
he did that, And tell everybodyyou meet just for pity. Or do
you really just need somebody to talkto, someone to hear you and be
there with you in the pain.Um, that's a good way to make
(20:51):
those decisions, right. Well,that's that's some great tips. You also
said that, um, when youdiscovered your husband's infidelity, that you had
no idea about it? Is thatcommon? Or do people liked Do you
often think you had no idea?But now when you look back, you
(21:12):
see these red flags? Yeah?I think a lot of us. I'd
say probably, um, half ofus. I took people with after the
affair. They have a gut feelingor they're completely blind blindsided, but once
(21:33):
they find out, like, especiallyfor us women, our intuition is amazing.
And for me, I knew somethingwas wrong and I just was for
years desperately trying to fix it,be the perfect wife, do that everything.
I was going crazy, And whenI found out about it, I
did have this moment where I waslike, oh, that's what's wrong,
(21:56):
Like I figured it out. Um, so you know, that's kind of
where you are. A lot ofus have ideas. Some of us go
looking for the information, but Iwould say most of us are kind of
in that blindsided. You know,we're trusting, and that's a good thing
(22:18):
to be a lot. I dowant to say one thing. It wasn't
exactly what you asked me, buta lot of us, myself included,
feel very foolish or duped stupid whenwe find out about this. How could
I not know? But for alot of us, you didn't know because
you look and you weren't looking right. You weren't looking for it. And
(22:40):
I think that it's okay. Istruggled with feeling like a fool for a
long time, probably for years,and finally landed at this place where it's
like, no, I like thatI trust, and I like that.
I love Foolly and and that's okay, Like I got screwed over here,
but I still choose to love andto trust because that's who I want to
(23:00):
be, and that's who I wantto teach you. That jing to be
right. And I think to you, you you have your system of values
and ethics and beliefs, and youwe all tend to think that the person
that we've married has the same.So it's like you, there's no reason
(23:22):
for you to think that they mightbe unfaithful. So instead of feeling like
you're stupid, it's like, thisis, like you said, this is
why I didn't go looking for it. I wouldn't. It wouldn't have occurred
to me because I wouldn't do thatmyself. Yeah of course. Yeah.
So M So, your husband's affairsdidn't automatically end your marriage for you,
(23:49):
and I'm guessing that he wanted totry and work on it. But I'm
in your experience. How often haveyou heard about one partner who has an
affair as a way to end themarriage. It's like they don't have the
courage or to end it themselves,so they have this affair. They almost
(24:10):
it's discovered, and then it's theperson who was cheated on that's left making
the decision to end the marriage.And that seems like you're making your spouse
to do the hard work when youdidn't have the cowardly yes, thank you,
that's a good word, cowardly.I don't know that we necessarily see
(24:33):
that, because we'd have to betold that was the situation. It's almost
fifty fifty. It's like forty ninefifty one percent half or trying to work
it out and the other half areending their relationships when they come to after
the affair in the beginning, right, And so I don't know that I've
yeah, I don't know that I'vegotten that specific info. But that would
(24:56):
be a very cowardly, fineless move, also selfish because you're going to put
them through so much more than justthe relationship ending. They're going to question
that they're self worth for years now, right right. So those exit affairs
are very challenging. And one ofthe things that the aspects of the exit
(25:18):
affair I've heard is that the personwill say, well, I've never loved
you or I haven't loved you foryears and years and years and It's almost
like they say these things as away to make it easier for them to
for the marriage to end for them. Yeah, very selfish. Yeah,
So, um, what made you? I'm wondering if you could share what
(25:44):
ultimately made you decide to end themarriage. Um. You know, for
me, my family is so importantand that drive to give my children,
you know, the family that visionthem, you know, be there as
grandparents and go on graduation trips together, like you know what I had in
(26:07):
my mind, that's what I wanted. And I also married my college sweetheart,
and you know I thought we werebest friends. Like I wanted what
I thought I had, and soit chose to stick it out for that
year. But that year, thatyear made me sick, physically ill.
You know, this is very common. If your partners cheated, you don't
(26:33):
believe anything they say or do fora very long time. And for us,
we did everything that there was underthe sun to fix it, but
the cheating just didn't stop. Andso eventually I had to just decide for
me, like, you know,I can still love this person, but
I can also know that this isnot healthy for me anymore, and this
(26:55):
is not what I want to teachmy children, you know what a relationship
is. So it was a veryvery hard year. And what's funny is
I never slept for like a year. I could. I struggled so much
to sleep. And then the nightthat I finally told him, like this
is done, like you have tomove out. Here's what's happening, I
(27:18):
slept like a baby within minute andit was so peaceful. And I think
that for me, I needed totry that year. I again felt foolish
for trying. You know, oncea cheater, always a cheater, right.
I felt foolish that I tried againand wasted. I thought I wasted
a year, But as time wenton, what I realized is that it
(27:38):
wasn't a year wasted. It wasa year proving to myself that I tried
everything in my own power and Ican't control everything. I can only control
myself. And so as I questionedlater, like did I make the right
choice, I can say with confidenceyes, because I gave everything I could.
(28:00):
Wasn't ultimately up to me completely rightright now, I can. I
totally understand taking a year to makea decision, And I think you're smart
to do that, because I alsothink that in that moment when you discover
the infidelity, and I think youtouched on it earlier, is that how
could you make this monumental decision toend your marriage when everything else is in
(28:22):
turmoil and then to think clearly abouthow to end the marriage and to make
the decisions that are associated with that. Yes, it's very, very difficult.
So Melissa, we're almost up ontime, but I have one more
question for you, and this isgoing back to when you first discovered your
(28:45):
husband's affair, and you described atthe very beginning how you packed your kids
up and you went to your grandmother'sand you're very close to your grandmother's.
Is that what you would advise otherpeople to do is to kind of get
get away from the situation if theypossibly can, and give give yourself just
(29:07):
like a little bit of space tobreathe. Um. I don't have an
official recommendation on that, but Ido believe that it's helpful for you to
find that safe place to process.And when I say process, I mean
sob your faith off hysterically for daysand days and days. But you know,
(29:27):
having somebody, you know, basicneeds like eating and drinking water out
the window, you're not going todo that. And so when I say
safe, you know, in mygrandmother she was the one that was bringing
water to me and making me eat. I love bacon. Bacon is like
my love language. But she likemade bacon, and she could to keep
(29:51):
me alive basically and take care ofthings for you because there is that,
you know initial We talk about thisso much after if there it's a trauma,
This is a huge trauma, andso you want to treat it like
that like you've seen a murderer takeplace, you know, like you would
be it. You're in shock,you can't think straight. You know,
(30:12):
when I packed to leave town,I didn't pack anybody underwear. It was
cold up there. We had flipflop upon like nothing was packed. We
had to go and buy almost everything. I don't know what I did,
but you just don't accept a lotfrom yourself and find a way to have
somebody help you in that first weekor two where you're just you're not even
(30:34):
functioning, you're not thinking straight.I think it would be wise to find
find that if you can. Ifnot, don't expect them a lot from
yourself, Like take six days,this is gonna be very hard, and
have compassion for yourself. It isokay to be a mess because your life
just got turned up sat down right. Wow. Thank you, Thank you
(30:57):
so much, Melissa Fish wearing yourwisdom and insights and your your story which
I know was very painful for you. Yes, thank you so much for
having me. It is a positivething to think about. All that deep,
terrible, gut wrenching pains is nowused for something beautiful and so it's
(31:19):
a real honor to be here andto help and share my story. Thank
you well, I Melissagna that youproviding a really valuable resource for many people
who find themselves in a similar situationto you. So would you like to
give all listeners your website one moretime? Sure? And I do want
to say that for every subscription toafter, we give a subscription to somebody
(31:44):
in need, and so you're ableto partner with us and helping others.
And actually almost everybody that reaches outfor help is a pregnant woman completely on
the street. So can't speak afteryour fair co to get connected and learn
more, and I start feeling andthank you again. So listen as we've
(32:09):
been talking with Melissa Davis. Melissais founder of After the Affair dot Com.
If you've discovered your spouse as beingunfaithful or is being unfaithful, breathe.
The most urgent priority for you isto take care of yourself, and
I think yes, do get alegal consult, but don't rush into the
(32:30):
divorce process unless you need to doso to protect yourself financially. Now is
the time to focus on your emotionalhealth. Get your support system in place.
Start getting the mental health support,whether that's online such as after the
Affair dot co or through in personcounseling. Doing that first will put you
(32:52):
in a much better position to makethe best decisions for you and for your
future. I want to thank youfor listening today. You hop over to
my blog sincem Divorce dot com.You'll find a synopsis of the show there,
and you can follow me at Sincemy Divorce on Twitter and on Facebook.
And I hope you'll join us againnext time for more conversations about divorce.
Getting a divorce. Even thinking aboutgetting a divorce can be overwhelming, scary,
and sometimes exciting. Join divorce coachand mediator Mandy Walker for conversations about
divorce. The more you know,the easier it will be to make your
divorce healthier, less trustful, andto put it behind you. Here's Mandy.
Welcome to the Conversations about divorce.I'm Mandy Walker, and today we're
(00:25):
talking about discovering your spouse's infidelity.Infidelity is often a factor in divorce.
The Institute for Family Studies reports theamong ever married adults who have cheated on
their spouses before, forty percent arecurrently divorced or separated, compared to seventeen
percent of adults who were faithful totheir spouse. That underscores the devastating impact
(00:49):
that infidelity has on a relationship.For the cheated on, it can mean
grief, trauma, PTSD, depression, anxiety, and fear, which can
make deciding what to do about yourrelationship challenging. And if you do decide
to divorce, that process is evenharder. While you're dealing with all of
(01:11):
those emotions. What happens when youdiscover that your spouse has been unfaithful.
What are the emotions that you canexpect? What are the first things that
you should do well? My guesttoday is Melissa Davis, founder of After
the Affair dot Co, which offerssupport for people looking to heal from their
partner's unfaithfulness. Welcome Melissa, Thankyou, thanks so much for having me.
(01:34):
Melissa, I wondered if you wouldbe willing to briefly share your story.
Yeah, so for me, yearsago, I had a newborn baby
as three year old, and Ihad my best friend's husband actually called me
and told me, hey, ifit was me, I would want to
know. I found some text messagesand their stuff going on, and for
(01:57):
me, I just decided to bea stay at home mother. You know,
I was nursing my baby. Iwas very vulnerable, independent on my
partner, and I had no ideaat all that this was happening. You
know. I packed up my kidsand the dog and I drove six or
(02:22):
seven hours away and stayed with mygrandmother for a week. And I do
not remember that week. It wasjust my grandmother kept my children alive and
I I just took showers. Igrew upd you myself. I felt very
dirty it was interesting to me.I mean, my skin was drawl and
(02:46):
I had somehow all of that shameand those poor choices. It's like it
just leached onto me and I justsobbed and showered constantly for a week straight
and so and I kind stayed therea lot of As time went on,
I found out more and more thatother people were involved in a lot of
(03:06):
them were people I knew. SoI felt very afraid, even more so
because I didn't think I could trust, you know, my friends that I
loved. So yeah, for me, it was a very alone, very
scary time. I was really strugglingwith shame, and I thought that I
(03:27):
just wasn't enough, and I justthink it. I was told this as
well over the years. I wasn'tfun enough, my musical case wasn't cool
enough. I wasn't pretty enough orexciting enough, just enough, And then
we do that to ourselves anyway,right, So I didn't need to be
thrilled that I was going to doit. So yeah, it was a
very scary and a very isolating timefor me. Melissa. I have so
(03:53):
many questions about your experience, andthank you for sharing that painful story.
But I was curious, did yourfriend's husband do the right thing reaching out
to you? If you knew afriend's spouse was being unfaithful, would you
tell your friend? Absolutely? Iwould every time. Actually, I had
(04:16):
a gut feeling about one of myfriend's husbands, and I did decide to
tell her, and I think ithurt our relationship a little bit. We
weren't super close, but I toldher and then she distanced herself from MESO.
And then about seven months later everythingcame out and my gut was correct.
(04:38):
So just guessing it's probably not thebest idea, but if you know,
I think absolutely you should share thatadvice, that information. I mean,
think about just the passing of STDsalone, like you need to protect
other people from what they don't know, especially with their physical health. Right.
Wow. And then when you saidthat you had found out that your
(05:03):
husband had actually had multiple affairs,does that make a difference? I mean
also taking into account with your conversationswith other people that have been cheated on.
Does does that somehow create a differentemotional reaction is a single affair versus
multiple affairs? And does that multipleaffairs put it into a realm of more
(05:27):
of an addiction. You know thatthere's a lot of answers to that.
I think the pain that we gothrough whether our partner cheaps with one or
twenty people is the same. Ithink that the questioning about for example,
if you're told it's one person andthen you find out three, you question
(05:50):
more about your perceived reality. Yeah, you know, especially like if you
find out about an affair, nomatter how many people are involved, you're
like, when I was visiting mydad in the hospital and you said you
had to work late, where wereyou? So you question everything of your
experiences, little details that don't trulymatter, but you're like, hey,
(06:12):
it's like the lights come on.But I do think that there is you
know, obviously there's a greater riskfor getting diseases if there's a lot of
people involved, and that feeling ofdistrust if you're trying to repair of relationship
and you kind of I call itthe waterfall effect when you keep finding out
about stuff and they're not honest whenyou say is that at um? I
(06:35):
think that makes it very hard torepair relationship because you know you're in the
depth of this trauma and the shockof finding out, and yet they're still
choosing to lie about all the details. But now I think the process of
heel is the same. Do youthink that they lie about the details because
(06:56):
they're trying to spall you somehow don'twant to face the truth themselves. I'd
say probably both, you know,and I can just speculate about how.
You know. I haven't made thatchoice myself, but I think for me,
I was, you know, hewas trying to protect me and also
damage control, like if this isall she knows, then maybe she'll stay
(07:17):
kind of thing. But now Ithink that the motives behind that are going
to be really different. Some peoplejust want to control the situation. A
lot of people after the affair figureout that there's a lot of manipulation and
psychological abuse going on, and theyreally couldn't see it before, and so
(07:38):
once they realize that they see,you know, their motives might be different
from what they first perceived as maybebeing a little bit more protective. Instead
it's like manipulative and abusive. It'sreally hard to stay there, all right.
That's that's interesting. So you geta different perspective. Because one of
my questions was, if you discoverthat the infidelity has been going on for
(08:03):
a long time. Then I imaginethat you then have to grapple with what
part of your marriage was real orit's that thinking, well, you know,
I thought that we were that wasa happy vacation, but you were
talking to this person where we wereon vacation, So you know, does
that mean that what I thought wasa happy vacation isn't true anymore? No,
(08:28):
not necessarily. It's interesting in thebeginning when you find out you've become
a little bit obsessed with those details, and there's realization because it's for you,
it's it's new. And I wentthrough that, you know, I
did question that fun vacation and foundout the reality behind it. And for
(08:48):
me, some of those things,the bigger events that happened, I don't
want to see pictures from that vacationanymore, and it's kind of painful.
But other things, you know,the children that came from it. You
know, that's kind of general,but there's other stuff where the memory of
what they did fade some over time. It feels impossible in the beginning,
(09:13):
but now I don't think it changesit necessarily unless something big, really painful
happens. I think that that paincan trump it. But but overall,
I think you can still claim someof that happiness for yourself and decide that
you know, for me, thatwas good, right? Right? Does
it make a difference if the affairis over as opposed to still going on.
(09:37):
I think it does make a difference. But the issue is trust.
If they say the affair is over, how do you know? I mean,
it's a pool off. An affairof any length of time, you
have to lie and manipulate your partnerto get away with it. And so
when they say it's over, howdo you know that? And it's not
(10:01):
your job to become a detective.We all sort of try to do that
because we don't trust, so wego crazy and stock emails and social media
profiles and check stuff and higher pis, you know, whatever we do.
But that just feeds into that thatfear and that anxiety for us. And
(10:22):
so it's very hard. That's areally hard place to be. Do you
have suggestions for how somebody should dealwith that. It's it's almost like you're
saying, you go through this wantingto know all the details, but at
some point you have to accept thatyou won't know all the details. You
(10:43):
can't know all the details and itdoesn't help you anyway. Yeah, you
know, it's it's difficult. Ithink everyone's wired differently. For me,
I wanted to know what I wasforgiving. I wanted to know all the
details what I is choosing to forgive, because I did choose to try to
work it out for almost a fullyear. We tried, and so some
(11:07):
people don't want to know. Ithink that overall what happens is the more
details you know, the more thingscan trigger you in the future. Of
one of our subscribers, she knewshe saw this beautiful perfume gift box in
her husband's car and she thought,oh, he's giving it to me for
(11:28):
Christmas. Well, Christmas came andwent and she did not receive that perfume.
And then when she found out atthe fair a year later, she
knew he didn't have to tell her. She knew what that was for.
And so for her, anytime shesees or smells that perfume, that's a
trigger and it just brings everything,all that pain and everything just piles back
(11:50):
on her. And so the lessthat you do know, the less opportunities
there are for you to have thingstriggering for you which will help you.
But in all honesty, even ifyou don't know a lot of details,
here's what we do. We makethem up, you know, we just
assume. We assume, because especiallyif we're women, then actually their works
(12:15):
with men too, But I seewomen doing this more. You know,
we just create what happened in ourhead, whether we find out or not.
So it's hard. It's I thinkthat's really a person by person basis
what you feel you need. Butgoing on a mission to find out every
detail and stock the other person andknow what they like and what's interesting about
(12:37):
them, that's not helpful. Andalso it doesn't matter about that other person.
And this is really about you andyour heart, your healing here,
right. And when you had shedyour story, you had said that one
of the people was involved was yourbest friend, and then you discovered other
(12:58):
friends were involved. I mean thatseems like that's a kind of a double
wami there, because you've been cheatedon by many people, people that you
trusted. Yeah, it's not agood time, that's for sure. And
I remember even saying to my verybest fule sister, a friend who was
(13:24):
not involved with my husband, Iremember asking her more than once, really
honestly, like, were you everinvolved with him? And she said now?
And it took me a while totruly believe it, and so you
know, that was my sounding board. And I lost her because because of
this, you know, lack oftrust just for general people, with the
(13:45):
way it worked out for me,because you pulled back from that friendship.
Oh yeah, I when I saidI slated myself, I like dug a
hole and didn't come out because Ijust truly thought everyone was bad and everybody
was, you know, buying tome and I do and not to mention
(14:05):
like I had a new baby,so I had that reason to stay in
any way and take care of her, and so I would postpartum and fully
afraid of everybody around me. Wow, Melissa, we're going to take a
short break here, but I havea lot more questions for you. Great.
(14:26):
Thank you. You're listening to conversationsabout divorce. I'm Mandy Walker,
and today we're talking about discovering yourspouse's infidelity. My guest today is Melissa
Davis, founder of After the Affairdot Co, which offers support for people
looking to heal from their partner's unfaithfulness. Melissa, would you like to share
(14:46):
with our listeners what your platform offers. Sure, yeah, you know,
I created after the affair specifically feelinga need that you know I needed.
I see a lot of programs outthere for healing marriages or helping a sex
addict. I don't see a lotfor just me, just the person who
(15:09):
is cheated on, because to gothrough so much trauma and struggle so desperately
with anxiety, flashbacks and triggers thatit just takes over your life. And
so after the affair was created veryspecifically to heal the cheated person. I
(15:31):
actually partnered with two amazing therapists there. They're the best out there for this
type of work. There's somebody Icould never have afforded myself, or I
was too embarrassed to reach out toyou probably in the beginning. And so
the three of us have all ofour different perspectives and advice together. So
(15:52):
it's it's these weekly videos eight weeksworth, where we walk you through these
these big items needed to be addressedwhile you're healing from an affair. We
don't push you to stay in arelationship or to leave a relationship, but
we do believe that that's a massivedecision to be made. It may just
(16:17):
affect you, it'll affect your familyand your friends, but that decision needs
to be made from a place ofhealing and health and clarity. Clarity feels
impossible, guys when you're dealing withthis, and so that's what we do.
That's what we're praised for giving peopledirection and hope and guidance. So
(16:40):
it's very different. It's very interesting. One of the therapists is she actually
lost her daughter and then a weeklater found out that her husband had been
unfaithful, and so her advice isvery She doesn't just she's not just a
therapist that teaches it. She knowsits soul. Yea and Melissa, what
(17:00):
is the u r L. It'safter the Affair dot co. Yeah,
okay, you can find us onFacebook and Instagram too, but after the
Fair dot co where you can kindof great. Um, it sounds like
an amazing resources one that will helpa lot of people through this this pain.
Before the break, you were talkingabout how you really dug a hole
(17:23):
for yourself and you isolated yourself.Um. I'm wondering if that's what you
would really recommend to people based onyour experience and your work with the other
therapists. Heck, no, youdon't do it. It's a terrible idea,
(17:45):
you know. On our in Afterthe Affair, on our video,
we always laugh. I basically tellpeople go do what I did. Here's
what I did. It's a terribleidea, and that's one of them.
Um, you know what, Ithought. There's a lot of places to
reach out for help, but Ihonestly thought I was the only person on
earth going through this in my world. That was true, And so reaching
(18:08):
out to support groups. If yougo to After the Affair on Facebook,
you'll immediately find that we have asupport group. So going places like that
where you can talk to other peopleand see like, oh, I'm not
the only one that really helps.But but isolation, it just gives you
more of an opportunity for the anxietyand the racing thoughts to go crazy.
(18:33):
And I would think that it definitelydon't do that, and that that in
a voice. It's like if you'vebeen told for so many years that you're
not enough, I mean that thatvoice you're in, a critic voice can
just run rampant. If you're isolatingyourself. Yes, it's a nightmare situation.
Don't do it okay, so don'tdo it so? So kind of
(18:56):
a related question, I'm curious howmuch do you tell other people and friends
about what's going on or do youkeep it private. I think this is
kind of wrapped up with feeling shameand embarrassment, but understanding Actually you know,
heck, you know, I'm notresponsible for keeping my spouse's choices secret.
(19:18):
You know, that's a really goodquestion. There's a lot of ways
to look at that. The firstway is if you have children with this
person, you're going to be hurtand you're gonna be angry. But you
do need to think about what yousay to whom and how it's going to
affect your children, and so findingI think it's best to find a handful
(19:40):
of people that you you know,know and love and trust. You know
they're not gonna go spread the word. Even when we live in bigger cities.
It's crazy how the word just spreadso quickly. Especially if you do
separate or divorce, people will talk, right, So what you say matters,
especially you have children, um,and so be mindful of that.
(20:03):
Uh. If you do decide toreconcile, it's really hard. I felt
this with myself. It's really hard, you know, you want to be
able to tell your family. Forme, I'm very close to my grandmother
and so it becomes hard for thosepeople to forgive. Yes, they'll have
to do it too. So Idon't think you should run around town and
(20:26):
tell the whole world. Don't takeout a billboard in your neighborhood just for
revenge sake. That's where you reallywant to look. Get your motives are
trying to get revenge, trying toget pity, Oh he did this and
he did that, And tell everybodyyou meet just for pity. Or do
you really just need somebody to talkto, someone to hear you and be
there with you in the pain.Um, that's a good way to make
(20:51):
those decisions, right. Well,that's that's some great tips. You also
said that, um, when youdiscovered your husband's infidelity, that you had
no idea about it? Is thatcommon? Or do people liked Do you
often think you had no idea?But now when you look back, you
(21:12):
see these red flags? Yeah?I think a lot of us. I'd
say probably, um, half ofus. I took people with after the
affair. They have a gut feelingor they're completely blind blindsided, but once
(21:33):
they find out, like, especiallyfor us women, our intuition is amazing.
And for me, I knew somethingwas wrong and I just was for
years desperately trying to fix it,be the perfect wife, do that everything.
I was going crazy, And whenI found out about it, I
did have this moment where I waslike, oh, that's what's wrong,
(21:56):
Like I figured it out. Um, so you know, that's kind of
where you are. A lot ofus have ideas. Some of us go
looking for the information, but Iwould say most of us are kind of
in that blindsided. You know,we're trusting, and that's a good thing
(22:18):
to be a lot. I dowant to say one thing. It wasn't
exactly what you asked me, buta lot of us, myself included,
feel very foolish or duped stupid whenwe find out about this. How could
I not know? But for alot of us, you didn't know because
you look and you weren't looking right. You weren't looking for it. And
(22:40):
I think that it's okay. Istruggled with feeling like a fool for a
long time, probably for years,and finally landed at this place where it's
like, no, I like thatI trust, and I like that.
I love Foolly and and that's okay, Like I got screwed over here,
but I still choose to love andto trust because that's who I want to
(23:00):
be, and that's who I wantto teach you. That jing to be
right. And I think to you, you you have your system of values
and ethics and beliefs, and youwe all tend to think that the person
that we've married has the same.So it's like you, there's no reason
(23:22):
for you to think that they mightbe unfaithful. So instead of feeling like
you're stupid, it's like, thisis, like you said, this is
why I didn't go looking for it. I wouldn't. It wouldn't have occurred
to me because I wouldn't do thatmyself. Yeah of course. Yeah.
So M So, your husband's affairsdidn't automatically end your marriage for you,
(23:49):
and I'm guessing that he wanted totry and work on it. But I'm
in your experience. How often haveyou heard about one partner who has an
affair as a way to end themarriage. It's like they don't have the
courage or to end it themselves,so they have this affair. They almost
(24:10):
it's discovered, and then it's theperson who was cheated on that's left making
the decision to end the marriage.And that seems like you're making your spouse
to do the hard work when youdidn't have the cowardly yes, thank you,
that's a good word, cowardly.I don't know that we necessarily see
(24:33):
that, because we'd have to betold that was the situation. It's almost
fifty fifty. It's like forty ninefifty one percent half or trying to work
it out and the other half areending their relationships when they come to after
the affair in the beginning, right, And so I don't know that I've
yeah, I don't know that I'vegotten that specific info. But that would
(24:56):
be a very cowardly, fineless move, also selfish because you're going to put
them through so much more than justthe relationship ending. They're going to question
that they're self worth for years now, right right. So those exit affairs
are very challenging. And one ofthe things that the aspects of the exit
(25:18):
affair I've heard is that the personwill say, well, I've never loved
you or I haven't loved you foryears and years and years and It's almost
like they say these things as away to make it easier for them to
for the marriage to end for them. Yeah, very selfish. Yeah,
So, um, what made you? I'm wondering if you could share what
(25:44):
ultimately made you decide to end themarriage. Um. You know, for
me, my family is so importantand that drive to give my children,
you know, the family that visionthem, you know, be there as
grandparents and go on graduation trips together, like you know what I had in
(26:07):
my mind, that's what I wanted. And I also married my college sweetheart,
and you know I thought we werebest friends. Like I wanted what
I thought I had, and soit chose to stick it out for that
year. But that year, thatyear made me sick, physically ill.
You know, this is very common. If your partners cheated, you don't
(26:33):
believe anything they say or do fora very long time. And for us,
we did everything that there was underthe sun to fix it, but
the cheating just didn't stop. Andso eventually I had to just decide for
me, like, you know,I can still love this person, but
I can also know that this isnot healthy for me anymore, and this
(26:55):
is not what I want to teachmy children, you know what a relationship
is. So it was a veryvery hard year. And what's funny is
I never slept for like a year. I could. I struggled so much
to sleep. And then the nightthat I finally told him, like this
is done, like you have tomove out. Here's what's happening, I
(27:18):
slept like a baby within minute andit was so peaceful. And I think
that for me, I needed totry that year. I again felt foolish
for trying. You know, oncea cheater, always a cheater, right.
I felt foolish that I tried againand wasted. I thought I wasted
a year, But as time wenton, what I realized is that it
(27:38):
wasn't a year wasted. It wasa year proving to myself that I tried
everything in my own power and Ican't control everything. I can only control
myself. And so as I questionedlater, like did I make the right
choice, I can say with confidenceyes, because I gave everything I could.
(28:00):
Wasn't ultimately up to me completely rightright now, I can. I
totally understand taking a year to makea decision, And I think you're smart
to do that, because I alsothink that in that moment when you discover
the infidelity, and I think youtouched on it earlier, is that how
could you make this monumental decision toend your marriage when everything else is in
(28:22):
turmoil and then to think clearly abouthow to end the marriage and to make
the decisions that are associated with that. Yes, it's very, very difficult.
So Melissa, we're almost up ontime, but I have one more
question for you, and this isgoing back to when you first discovered your
(28:45):
husband's affair, and you described atthe very beginning how you packed your kids
up and you went to your grandmother'sand you're very close to your grandmother's.
Is that what you would advise otherpeople to do is to kind of get
get away from the situation if theypossibly can, and give give yourself just
(29:07):
like a little bit of space tobreathe. Um. I don't have an
official recommendation on that, but Ido believe that it's helpful for you to
find that safe place to process.And when I say process, I mean
sob your faith off hysterically for daysand days and days. But you know,
(29:27):
having somebody, you know, basicneeds like eating and drinking water out
the window, you're not going todo that. And so when I say
safe, you know, in mygrandmother she was the one that was bringing
water to me and making me eat. I love bacon. Bacon is like
my love language. But she likemade bacon, and she could to keep
(29:51):
me alive basically and take care ofthings for you because there is that,
you know initial We talk about thisso much after if there it's a trauma,
This is a huge trauma, andso you want to treat it like
that like you've seen a murderer takeplace, you know, like you would
be it. You're in shock,you can't think straight. You know,
(30:12):
when I packed to leave town,I didn't pack anybody underwear. It was
cold up there. We had flipflop upon like nothing was packed. We
had to go and buy almost everything. I don't know what I did,
but you just don't accept a lotfrom yourself and find a way to have
somebody help you in that first weekor two where you're just you're not even
(30:34):
functioning, you're not thinking straight.I think it would be wise to find
find that if you can. Ifnot, don't expect them a lot from
yourself, Like take six days,this is gonna be very hard, and
have compassion for yourself. It isokay to be a mess because your life
just got turned up sat down right. Wow. Thank you, Thank you
(30:57):
so much, Melissa Fish wearing yourwisdom and insights and your your story which
I know was very painful for you. Yes, thank you so much for
having me. It is a positivething to think about. All that deep,
terrible, gut wrenching pains is nowused for something beautiful and so it's
(31:19):
a real honor to be here andto help and share my story. Thank
you well, I Melissagna that youproviding a really valuable resource for many people
who find themselves in a similar situationto you. So would you like to
give all listeners your website one moretime? Sure? And I do want
to say that for every subscription toafter, we give a subscription to somebody
(31:44):
in need, and so you're ableto partner with us and helping others.
And actually almost everybody that reaches outfor help is a pregnant woman completely on
the street. So can't speak afteryour fair co to get connected and learn
more, and I start feeling andthank you again. So listen as we've
(32:09):
been talking with Melissa Davis. Melissais founder of After the Affair dot Com.
If you've discovered your spouse as beingunfaithful or is being unfaithful, breathe.
The most urgent priority for you isto take care of yourself, and
I think yes, do get alegal consult, but don't rush into the
(32:30):
divorce process unless you need to doso to protect yourself financially. Now is
the time to focus on your emotionalhealth. Get your support system in place.
Start getting the mental health support,whether that's online such as after the
Affair dot co or through in personcounseling. Doing that first will put you
(32:52):
in a much better position to makethe best decisions for you and for your
future. I want to thank youfor listening today. You hop over to
my blog sincem Divorce dot com.You'll find a synopsis of the show there,
and you can follow me at Sincemy Divorce on Twitter and on Facebook.
And I hope you'll join us againnext time for more conversations about divorce.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!