June 29, 2024 • 43 mins
In this episode we pick up with the results of the second autopsy, Drew getting arrested, and the first part of the trial.
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Music by:Kai Engel"Daemones"Blooper music by:Art of Escapism"Coal Miners"This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ or send a letter to Creative Commons, PO Box 1866, Mountain View, CA 94042, USA.
Sources:
To access earlier episodes of Corpus Delicti and to help support the show, please visit patreon.com/corpusdelicti
Our merch store can be found at teepublic.com/stores/corpus-delicti-podcast
Music by:Kai Engel"Daemones"Blooper music by:Art of Escapism"Coal Miners"This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ or send a letter to Creative Commons, PO Box 1866, Mountain View, CA 94042, USA.
Sources:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzT7f9wEDEg
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_53d3XSxa70
- https://www.reelz.com/extra/anonymous-warning-sent-drew-petersons-second-wife-kathleen-savio/
- http://www.acandyrose.com/2012-07-31-MaryPontarelli.pdf
- http://www.acandyrose.com/2012-08-01-ThomasPontarelli.pdf
- Crime files - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnZ3MUkXSeY
- https://abc7chicago.com/archive/8746096/
- https://www.sj-r.com/story/news/2008/05/21/drew-peterson-turns-himself-in/47538603007/
- https://petersonstory.wordpress.com/documents/
- 'The Horror of What Kathleen Savio Went Through Before She Died' | Bolingbrook, IL Patch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:24):
Everyone. It's Jen and this isLindsay and welcome back to Corpus Delicti the
podcast. We are currently on episodetwo of the Drew Peterson kind of our
Peterson series, Yeah, which,as we said in the last one,
was sort of a joke, butnow we are rolling with it. So
if you have not listened to thefirst episode yet, you do want to
(00:46):
stop and do so. This isthe second one in a series of what
we're pretty sure is going to bethree. We are trying to knock those
out tonight. So super brief recap. We ended the last episode with Drew's
young wife Stacy going missing, sayingshe ran off with a guy, but
it prompted them to reopen the deathof his third wife before Stacy, who
(01:11):
had quote unquote drowned in a bathtub. Now, one thing that we want
to clarify right off the bat iswe weren't sure in the last episode the
specifics about the tub and how shewas laying, so we looked it up
and just to clarify, it wasa tub, only it was not a
(01:32):
shower. It's an oval tub andher body was indeed facing away from the
faucet. Her head was at theback of the tub. Like Jen said
in the last episode, she wasalmost in the fetal position sort of.
She's on her side, but herface and chest are turned down. So
(01:52):
just to clarify that, and nowwe will go ahead and jump in.
At the end of the first episode, we learned that thea had exhumed Kathleen
and another autopsy was done. Rememberoriginally there were no marks. Well it
was actually there was a lot onthe front of her body. Remember the
(02:13):
gash on her head was on theback. She also had scrapes down her
back, so she is bruised front, back, all over, and they
determined that they had to have beeninflicted in twenty four hours. Now,
the original autopsy did list these butthe reason it was reported that there were
no marks was because the autopsy saidthey were old. In other words,
(02:38):
they said it happens before her death, it wasn't related. The new autopsy
disagrees with this. Also, thenew autopsy says the abrasions on Kathleen's body
could not have been caused by herback rubbing up against the smooth surface of
her bathtub. We're going to discussthis a little bit more on trial when
(03:00):
we bring in those doctors and wetalk about what they say. But the
police have to change tactics. Nowthey have to interview Drew because he knows
the tricks. So how do youinterview an ex cop or right now,
he's currently a cop. He hasn'tleft the force, so real quick,
(03:21):
just to again go over the injurieshere, because they said at first there
weren't any, but now they're saying, oh, well, that's because they
just weren't relevant. There were nonerelated to the event. But she's got
the big gash on her head,on the back of her head, she
is bruising on the front of herbody near her chest and then scrapes down
(03:43):
her back. She is in abathtub, not a shower. So going
back to now, we've got totalk to Drew, right, So Peterson
tells the media that this was justa regular household accident. He's getting a
ton of attention because he's the primesuspect in both of these incidents and he
(04:08):
knows this now, so he can'treally use his position at the police department
to get him out of this because, as we talked about in the last
one, it went beyond his localdepartment. At this point, they're pulling
in state police. This has gottenbigger than him and no one can protect
him now. But there's one thingthat he thinks he can do, which
(04:28):
he did do, and that wascharm and persuade people into believing that he
had nothing to do with it.So he starts doing interviews with anyone who
would listen. If they're going toput him in front of the camera,
He's like, yes, I'm in, and he is going to convince people
that way. So on one showhe said, quote, I don't believe
(04:49):
she's missing. I believe she iswhere she wants to be. On January
twenty third of two thousand and eight, Drew and his lawyer gave an interview
with a Chicago radio station with SteveDahl. When his lawyer suggested a dating
game and the winner gets a datewith Drew, Dall says, oh,
(05:14):
I'll do a dating game with you, because this is kind of the part
of the stick With the radio DJ. They had a lot of competitions.
Well, Drew's lawyer goes, Hey, Drew, it's up to you.
Matt well Peterson says, well,I don't know. You're gonna have to
ask the lawyer, and the lawyersays, yeah, why not. So
(05:34):
you're a suspect in one wife's disappearance, another wife's death, prime suspect.
Why would anyone want to date you? Why are you going on saying yeah,
I'm good with it. Just askmy lawyer make sure that's okay.
Well, the station manager was like, absolutely not. We're stopping it dead
(05:59):
in its track, shut it down. And his lawyers said that his client
didn't do anything wrong and he isentitled to have a little fun. And
that's what lawyer says. I mean, technically speaking, yes, but the
optics are bad and you've got toknow it. You've got to know that
it's a bad look. Now,let's say you know, he has not
(06:20):
been in front of a court oflaw at this time, so innocent until
proven guilty. But the dude hada PR person in the last episode.
Where is that PR person now?Because that looks bad? Why would you
even need a PR person? Ron, You're a suspect in a murder case.
(06:41):
You're a suspecting your other your wife'sdisappearance. But we're going to talk
about Drew's step brother. His brotherwas recovering in the hospital after trying to
take his own life when the policecame and did an interview with him.
During the interview, he had heto spill an oh Boy Diddy. On
(07:02):
the day before Stacy goes missing,Drew was talking to his stepbrother about his
relationship with Stacy. Drew was sayingthat Stacy was cheating on him and Drew
had to quote take care of thisproblem. Drew asks his step brother if
he loves Drew enough to kill forhim. Point blank says, hey,
(07:23):
jeez, you love me. Youlove me enough to kill for me.
Well, his brother was like,I'm not gonna do this. I can't
live with this knowledge. Knowing aboutthis conversation, He's like, I just
can't live with this. Well,his brother kind of suspected already that Drew
had killed Kathleen. So this isDrew coming to his brother stepbrother and saying,
(07:48):
will you help me kill Stacy mycurrent wife? And his brother's like,
mm mmm, nope, I alreadythink he did something to Kathleen.
So Drew takes his stepbrother on acar and brings him to a storage unit
rental place and he tells his brotherhe said, hey, rent a unit
for me, and he says inreturn, I will give you two thousand
(08:09):
dollars, but in order to renta unit, you have to have a
government and issued ID, which atthat point his stepbrother did not have.
Later that day, his stepbrother calledDrew and said, I don't want any
part of this. Whatever you're doing, I don't want to know. So
Drew comes to his stepbrother's house thenext day, so Drew's he keeps saying
(08:33):
no. His stepbrother keeps saying no, and Drew keeps coming back to him.
So the next day comes to hisstepbrother's house. He takes his stepbrother
on another car rider. This time, Drew gives his stepbrother a cell phone
and tells him, do not answerit. Forty five minutes later, that
phone rang twice. The caller IDshowed that it was Stacy. Now let's
(08:58):
just plant that seed here. That'ssomething you need to follow. He gives
his stepbrother his cell phone, saysdo not answer it. Forty five minutes
later, it rings twice and itsays it's Stasty. Well, now Drew
drives his stepbrother back to Drew's house. There, Drew is pulling out a
large blue barrel out of his bedroom, because we all have large blue barrels
(09:22):
in our bedroom floys. Now pictureit as one of those large oil bearing
drums. That's the kind of bigblue barrel we're talking about. Step brother
helps Drew take the barrel down thestairs and helps him load it into Drew's
car. He remembers that the barrelis warm to the touch, it's not
(09:43):
cold. Drew gives a step brothersome money and drops them back at home,
saying, oh, by the way, this never happened. So Drew's
stepbrother's like, I don't want anypart of this. Don't get me involved.
And of course does Drew listen,Absolutely not. But there's an issue
with the whole this never happened.Neighbors saw it. The neighbors guess what
(10:09):
when they were asked by the policeand the media, they told them exactly
what they saw. So his stepbrotheris now thinking, oh my god,
I just helped him get rid ofStacy's body. This is when he starts
to have suicidal tendencies and tries totake his own life, ends up in
the hospital, and then the policecome and talk to him, and there's
(10:31):
that's when he spills all this information. So the prosecution needs this information,
right, this is a big deal. So they are offering this step brother
full immunity if he testifies against SoDrew and his lawyer made a deal.
They're going to start doing talk shows. They're going to do all these news
circuit interviews, and they're going toget paid to do each one of these,
(10:52):
and they're going to divide the profits. Okay, so now this is
almost like a business. How isthat well ethical? Does that happen now?
Like a notorious suspect goes and doesthese interviews free trial and the lawyer's
there. I'm sure it happens.Whether or not it's ethical, I don't
(11:13):
know, but I'm sure that happensnow. I mean, especially with a
big sensational crime, everybody wants totalk to him. Okay, Now Drew's
a suspect all the way. Thingsare just happening to him one after another.
And now it's February twenty first,two thousand and eight, Stacy's still
missing. The pathologist who conducted thissecond autopsy concluded that Kathleen's death was a
(11:37):
result of homicide. So his stepbrotherkind of threw him under the bus.
He's doing these talk shows saying thatStacy left, and all of a sudden,
now comes out Kathleen's death was ahomicide. It was murder because they
looked at the bruises and the waythe body was positioned in the tub.
(11:58):
The police bring Drew in for apolygraph, and when you know what,
he failed, and he reportedly failedon these three questions, which are really
interesting. Did you know your wifewas leaving you? He would say yes.
The next one asked whether he hadseen Stacy the night before she vanished,
and he said yes. And finally, when asked whether he knew where
(12:20):
Stacy was now, he said no. So I don't know if that was
nerves if, of course, polygraphyou take it with a great assault,
to be honest, but it's it'skind of telling here. So October two
thousand and eight, Drew meets ChristinaReins in a bar where she was working.
She had actually met Drew back whenshe was fifteen years old, and
(12:43):
they started dating when she was twentythree. She said that this relationship started
out as a friendship. Her dadwas not happy at all about it.
He knew that Drew was a policeofficer, knew that he was super old
at this point, and he hadseen in all the media coverage. And
this is a quote from her dad, It says, quote, we moved
(13:05):
to Bolingbrook when we were little,and Drew Peterson was a policeman, a
sergeant at the time, and hehelped me a lot, and I trusted
him, and all of a suddenlater on I got word that he was
trying to date my daughter. AfterStacy disappeared and six months ago, I
believe it was. My daughter worksat a restaurant and he was going in
there and then going where she washanging out and just kept pursuing her.
(13:26):
So he called the state police aboutStacy and Kathleen. He just wants to
make sure his daughter's safe. He'slike, can you give me an update.
I just don't feel really good aboutthis, and they said, we
wish you luck, but there's nothingwe can do now. They get engaged,
(13:48):
and she claims that the engagement wasa stunt and not a real engagement.
She has moved in with him.At this point, Stacy is still
missing, but she is. Heis considered still alive at this point,
so she's just missing still. Soat this point they can't get married,
engagement or not. Her dad wasabsolutely having none of it. He said,
(14:11):
you know what you're done, You'removing home. I don't care.
He is a prime suspect and amurder. He's prime suspect and a missing
potentially another murder. You're not livingwith her. So her dad calls a
few police officers and he's like,you know what, we're gonna move you
out. And so he has aposse with him. He goes to Drew's
(14:33):
home. Media is there. They'recamped out. They're like, this is
media gold, we are here towitness this. Drew is furious. He
slams the door on Christina and herdad because she was there with him.
It took the police having her dadget off the property before she could take
her things. So Drew is pissed. He's upset. This puts him in
(14:56):
a bad light. He's not lettingthe dad anywhere near the house are on
his land, and as soon ashe's able to step onto the street,
he allows the police and Christina tocome in and pack their things and get
out. Now, Drew claims,yeah, the engagement's real. She asked
him to marry her. You know, she had asked five or six times
(15:18):
to get married to him. Heclaims he finally said yes, and then
all of a sudden she starts demandinga ring. November two thousand and eight,
we're gonna go back to Drew andhis lawyer here they're being interviewed by
Diana Pritzer talking about his upcoming weaponscharge. That's right, he can't have
weapons and he got caught with weaponsand the charges are centered around him owning
(15:46):
a gun that is has too shortof a barrel, like a solid off
shotgun. But this is when hewas still a police officer. So that
gun was actually seized during the executionof a search warrant from November two thousand
and seven, and like Jen said, it was basically a sawed off rifle.
(16:08):
So he ended up turning himself inonce that warrant was executed, and
his son wrote a check for seventyfive hundred dollars to bail him out of
jail. The charges were later droppedbecause the judge ruled that since he was
a police officer at the time,he was allowed to possess this. So
(16:30):
because he's got a history, buddhe's a police officer, which one are
we going to go with? Sonow let's go to April first of two
thousand and nine. Drew does somethingabsolutely disgusting, and he calls a local
radio station and he's telling the radioDJs that he has something weighing heavy on
his heart. And he starts talkingabout how he had been on the phone
(16:52):
with his attorney for the last halfan hour and the attorney was telling him
to keep his mouth shut, buthe just had had to come clean with
it. He wanted to do iton the radio. And everyone's like,
oh my gosh, what is thisdude about to say? And he says
the chicken wings on the Dixon Barand grill were the best he ever ate.
That restaurant is owned by his lawyer, so he baited switched into a
(17:19):
promo breeze. That's exactly what hedid. Speaking of promo breaks, we
won't take one real quick, andwe will be back in just a moment.
Not for our own restaurant though,because that doesn't exist. All right,
guys, thank you so much forjust hanging in there with a really
bad joke. We're back to ourstory, all right. Drew starts to
(17:42):
give away and sell all of Stacy'sclothes, and I'm not talking just jeans
and shirts. He sold her underwearand brawls or at least tried to,
but he was going to try toget that money. It would take another
year and a half before Drew wouldbe charged with Kathleen's from murder. Drew
was indicted and arrested on May seventh, two thousand and nine. His bill
(18:07):
is set at two million. Buthere's an issue and it's going to come
up later. The lead investigator neverhad done a homicide before, so there's
gonna be a few oopsies in thisinvestigation. As you can tell, they
interviewed him in the breakroom, Sothe police had interviewed Drew in a breakroom
(18:32):
instead of an interrogation room. Thebreakroom does not have cameras, the breakroom
doesn't have a tape recorder. Thebreakroom conversation could have been anything that they
had written down on either side,you know. So let's go to the
trial because he is charged and there'sa lot to discuss here because when they
(19:00):
get all of you know, thelist, you got to know who is
on the potential witness list and allthat. The defense straight up puts Stacy
on their potential witness list. SoJuly thirty first, twenty twelve, this
is years down the road. That'swhen we start. Drew has hired not
one, not two, but sixlawyers who were all top notch, very
(19:21):
well seasoned lawyers, and they wereabsolute clowns in front of the media.
During one media press release, oneof the reporters asked about Stacy. Two
of Drew's legal teams said Stacy,Stacy, who and they laughed, that's
tacky. That's right. It wasshacky. It was so cringe. I
was watching that and they were inlike the Drew's in front of the camera,
(19:47):
in front of the mic. Thetwo lawyers are on his left side
behind him, and it just lookedlike a frat party, bad joke.
They were just laughing and they werekind of moving around and just giving each
other like, hey, dude,that was awesome joke. It was so
cringe. So also, Drew's legalteam before the trial asked the judge to
(20:10):
exclude testimony from the divorce lawyer andtheir pastor, since Stacy had told them
both of them that she was scaredthat Drew was going to kill her like
he did Kathleen. Now, thereasoning here is that Kathleen and Stacy could
not be at the trial to testifythat she had actually told them that so
(20:33):
they're like, look, it's hearsaybasically, is what they're trying to argue.
The judge ruled against it, anda law was actually soon passed that
a person could testify to what wassaid to them if that person came out
dead, so they would allow thishearsay evidence from a third party. Now
(20:53):
there is no physical evidence, there'sno fingerprints, there's no DNA, there's
no sign of a break in.The Only thing we have is a dead
woman who at one point they saidhad accidentally drowned in a completely dry bathtub.
(21:15):
Okay, that's what we have goinginto this case, and then now
a missing woman. What they dohave is Kathleen talking to her friends and
family. She had told them andthe people around her that Drew had threatened
to kill her and he was goingto make it look like an accident.
He has said that several times.He has said that to several wives that
he was going to make it looklike an accident. The defense went up
(21:40):
against James Glassglow. Now, heis a veteran prosecutor. He has a
conviction rate that is one of thehighest in the state at that time,
so he knows his stuff. Sobefore opening statements. Greenberg, the lead
defense attorney for Drew Peterson. Iguess the other lawyer that did the whole
(22:00):
dating game thing kind of get bumpeddown that list because Greenberg decided to lead
the charge. He starts off withemotion to the court, saying that since
the divorce had happened before her death, Peterson had no financial gain or benefit
from killing Kathleen. What he didfail to mention is that he is having
(22:21):
to give half of his pension toher when he retires, and all the
child support payments that he was courtordered to pay, so there is a
financial benefit there, so that motivecould not be brought up in the prosecution
statements. This was the motion thatthey filed. The prosecution responds to that
by arguing that there is no pertinlaw that limits what could be said during
(22:45):
open arguments and dispute's case law citedby the defense. So defense is saying,
hey, can't bring this up.We don't want you to bring this
up, and the prosecution goes thereis nothing on the books that says I
can't There is nothing saying I can'tsay what I want to say during my
opening argument. So the judge agreeswith the prosecution denies the motion because it's
(23:11):
not up to the prosecution to provea motive. Their charge is to prove
beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecutionwould say, quote, the evidence will
show that on March first, twothousand and four, Kathleen Savio's lifeless body
was found in her bathtub. Kathleenwas murdered, and it was staged to
(23:33):
look like an accident. So hegoes on to say that in June of
two thousand and two, Peterson brokeinto Kathleen's home and threatened her. At
nine point, he starts to describean incident in which Peterson allegedly tried to
hire someone to kill Kathleen. Thedefense strongly objects, not even a few
(23:55):
sentences in, and you can tellthe objections are flying. I mean,
there's objections in opening statements, andit's going to be a fight here.
We can see that already. Andthe defense is mad because Glasgow is already
pointing the finger at Drew saying hetried to hire someone to kill Kathleen.
So the judge rules in favor ofthe defense on this one, and the
(24:17):
defense says, you know what,we're going for a mistrial. You gave
us that let's shoot for the starsthat was denied. So and if you
want to play a fun drinking gameat this point, anytime they follow in
motion for mistrial, take a shot. Oh boy, you might be woppling
at the end. So back inthe opening statement by the prosecution, they
(24:37):
walked through the time where Drew triedto drop his kids off at Kathleen's home.
Remember we talked about that in thelast episode. And this is a
quote here. On February seventeenth,two thousand and four, the defendant picked
up his children for visitation. Thekids were due back Sunday evening. The
defendant says he went to the door, but no one answered. He took
(25:00):
the kids and went home. Uponfinding his wife not there, he makes
no attempt to ask others where shemight be. He simply goes home the
next day, Monday, March First, he begins to make phone calls.
He finally makes a call to neighborMary Pontererelli. Then Drew Peterson causes locksmith
to open the door. Four neighborswent in and found her, not the
(25:23):
police. Because he calls the locksmithfirst, he doesn't know the scenario inside
the house, neighbors go in,they find her. Within an hour.
The investigator at the Illinois State Policeconcluded that it was an accident, which
the coroner agreed within an hour.Now it would have stayed an accidental drowning
until Kathleen and Drew's pastor, whohad provided them with marriage counseling, was
(25:47):
called in for jury duty. Soduring this time he had information that he
gave to the police a bow drewwhich led to Kathleen's body being exhumed.
Then they did the second auto.The pathologist ruled that the death was a
homicide, and doctor Mary Chase,who was a neuropathologist, said, there
(26:07):
are injuries not consistent with a fallin that bathtubs. Right after Stacey goes
missing, the pastor gets called himto be a jury on another case,
and he pulls aside one of thelawyers or one of the da prosecution and
he goes, hey, this isweighing heavy on me. I'm here now,
might as well tell you what Iknow. So this is why not
(26:29):
why, But it was a factorof variable in the thought of getting Kathleen
eg zoom zoon. So with that, the prosecution closes their opening statements.
The defense has their turn. Now. The defense had barely started going through
Drew's life with the prosecution objected threetimes, I'm just having flashbacks to the
John eyed up amberferd I answer whereit was just constant, and each time
(26:52):
the judge agrees with the prosecution,telling the defense that their comments are inappropriate
since it's sounding like they are testifyingto the jury. The defense is painting
Kathleen as hot tempered and bossy aboutthe business they ran while Drew is outworking.
He is a police officer, he'sa narcotics undercover agent, and she's
(27:14):
being painted as kind of the tyrantin the relationship. All right, So
the defense would go on to say, quote they started to fight about money,
she would lose her temper easily overnothing, and she would make a
scene. He would try to calmher down, but nothing could control Kathy.
The marriage had become dysfunctional. Ultimately, Drew just had to move to
(27:37):
the basement. And in March twothousand and two, Kathy finds out that
Drew had taken Stacy on a vacationto Mexico. She gets livid, wants
him out of the house. She'sangry, she wants to get her way
possible quote, she wants to gether what She's angry. Yeah, she's
angry he brought a not even alegal aged child to live in her basement
(28:02):
of her house to schnook her husbanddownstairs while she's upstairs sleep with I would
be angry too, I'm angry forher. So, getting back to the
quote, it says, so shegoes to court, she files a petition
for an order of protection, andshe fills it with Li's stupid, ridiculous
statements. Okay, pause here justfor a second, guys, I just
(28:23):
want to make this clear. Ifyou can't present your statement without name calling,
without degrading, those statements take awayyour credibility. The more you name
call and the more you pass thosejudgmental adjectives against somebody, it really just
(28:45):
degrades it. That's my personal Imean it's and for me, my personal
opinion is you want it to bebased in fact. You have to prove
something here, you know, andnow granted you know this is the defense.
They don't have to prove, youknow, they do, but technically
it's on the prosecution. But youwant it to be based in fact.
(29:07):
But you know, a lot oftimes things are based in emotion. We
know that, and it's unfortunate becausein this case it sounds like straight up
victim blaming. It does well.Going back to the quote, she says
she gets an order of protection thatputs him out of the house. Drew
causes lawyer Kathy has served for thedivorce petition and in order to vacate the
home. So he's telling her she'sgot to get out. So all of
(29:30):
these papers flying back and forth,and all of a sudden, Kathy agrees
to drop her petition for the orderof protection and Drew agrees to move out.
That avoids the hearing and all theseunproven allegations. And never again until
after Kathy's death, did you everhear anything again about the order of protection?
So he the defense is really justcoming down to this. It's a
(29:53):
he said, she said she gotmad. She's throwing hands and words,
he's throwing hands in words. Theykind of come together, they withdraw everything.
That's why you don't hear about it. And he even goes so far
as to describe Kathleen as a madwoman. Goodness, So, when the
defense finally gets around to the nightin question, the night that Kathleen died.
(30:15):
They focus the conversation around Kathleen's boyfriend. All right, so it's a
three day weekend. He comes overone night and they had intimacy, and
then they had plans the following day, and so her boyfriend's like, no,
I've got plans. I don't wantto hang out with you. And
(30:36):
then quote, Kathy wants him tocome over. She wants to discuss marriage
with her boyfriend. He's not readyto discuss marriage. That call ends about
midnight, and that's the last timeanyone hears from Kathy. So what the
defense is saying is that the boyfriendnow has a motive because he was there
(30:56):
Friday they had sex, but onSaturday it was a love them, leave
them type of situation and he wasupset that she wanted marriage. So they
are trying to present an alternate suspectat this point. So then the defense
talks about the day that Drew calledthe locksmith, because at the time,
(31:18):
the media was like, why notcall the police, and his answer to
this was meaning the defense was,well, Drew was the police. He
just needed to get in there.Well, he's busted in there before without
calling a locksmith. Why did hecall a locksmith this time, but that's
just me. He busted through thedrywall in the garage and stole the garage
door openers and programmed them so hecould get in. He got into that
(31:41):
house on multiple occasions before. SoStill in opening arguments, the defense claims
that the first autopsy indicated a negativetoxicology report and found the death to be
accidental. We know that, right, No witness to foul play, no
murder weapon, no crime scene,no sign of forced entry, no sign
of a struggle. The bathroom wasin perfect order. There's not one shred
(32:04):
of evidence that Drew Peterson or anyoneelse was in that house. Now remember
that, because oh my gosh,there is such a debate going on about
the bath mats. Were they there? Were they not? There? Were
they taken? You know what happenedin that bathroom the days after? And
we're gonna get to that. Thatthat is a key testimony from one of
(32:25):
the witnesses that we're gonna get to. But right now, we're gonna get
to the first witness. Let's talkabout the first witness that they bring up,
and it's gonna be married. Thisis the neighbor next door that actually
walked into the bathroom and found Kathleen. Now, Mary and Kathleen had been
very good friends, their kids playedtogether, they live next door. Mary
would say that first Kathleen and Drewthere were good people. They were great.
(32:49):
She would see them almost every day, like you do your neighbors,
you know, getting out back andforth. Mary recalled that Kathleen was extremely
upset when she found out that herhusband and was carrying on an affair in
their home in the basement. WhenDrew moved out, Mary's husband would put
a deadlock on Kathleen's bedroom door becauseKathleen was scared. So Mary's husband comes
(33:15):
into the house and puts that deadlockon just to help Kathleen feel safe,
because that early on she had expressedfear of something. Right, she did
not feel safe that early on,because she had also had already sent that
letter to the DA begging, beggingfor him to get looked into, and
they never did. Drew, rememberhe only moved a few houses down the
(33:39):
street. Down the street. Theylived on the same street, just a
few houses. And remember he'd alsorollerblade flipping her the bird every time they
passed the house. So yeah,she's scared. And she felt the dead
bolt was needed well. The afternoonof Kathleen's death, Mary told the jury
that she saw Kathleen and they talkedon Mary's front porch. Quote. Me
(34:01):
and Kathleen met on the front ofmy porch. She says. She had
a great week at school, helpeddeliver a baby. She was studying to
become a nurse. Now. Accordingto Mary, Kathleen said that she was
going to stay home and study thatnight, despite Mary's invitation to a party.
Because Mary's like, hey, comewith us, come and joy come
(34:21):
partake, and Kathleen's like, no, I gotta study. I'm in nursing
school. It is a full timething. When Mary and her husband came
home from that party around midnight,they noticed a light still on a Kathleen's
home. Quote this is from Mary. I made a comment to tom Aka
or her husband, Wow, Kathystill up because the light in her bedroom
(34:45):
was on. I only remember thatone light in her bedroom. Mary did
not notice any cars parked in thedriveway or the street, so she just
assumed Kathy is up studying. Now. The next day, Mary asked her
son Nick to knock on Kathleen's door, but no one answered. Kathleen also
(35:06):
never answered her phone again. Sothat evening on March first, Drew came
by with the kids, and thisis again a quote from Mary. She
says, he asked me if I'dheard from Kathleen that day. He said
he'd tried to bring the kids back, but Kathleen still wasn't home. So
that's when the locksmith comes. Theyopened the door, Mary noticed that all
(35:27):
the lights were off. Okay,she's the one who noticed that light on.
The night before Steve Carcerano and Iwent up the stairs towards Kathy's bedroom.
Drew was still down by the bottomof the steps, and she believes
that Drew turned the first light on, but she's not positive. Now this
is when Mary went into the bedroom, then into the bathroom that was within
(35:51):
the bedroom, and found Kathleen inthe tub. She started screaming, which
caused Mary's husband to come running upthe stairs, and she says that Drew
did take her pulse. She said, is she dead? And he said,
yes, Mary, she is.Let's talk about the hair clip.
Mary said that Kathleen always clipped herhair back when she wanted to take a
(36:13):
bath, and she didn't want toget her hair wet. She did say
that she did not see a clip, but there's a lot going on emotional
event. Was she sure don't reallyknow, but we do know that there
was that head wound on the backof her head. So the defense cross
examines Mary and they asked her aboutKathleen being bossy or over exaggerating things,
(36:37):
and Mary fled out denies it.She's like, no, that's not Kathleen.
The defense asked her about Drew.What was Drew wearing March first when
he came by. Mary said Drewwas in his police sergeant's uniform. Second
day of the trial, August eighth, Mary's husband, Tom is called to
(36:59):
the stand and he's gonna talk aboutthe lock on the door, the dead
bolt. He testified that Peterson isupset that Tom installed a lock on the
bedroom door. One Peterson's not evenliving in the house. Kathleen is,
it ain't none of his business.Now, do you care? Yeah,
but he does care. Peterson calledhim about the front door locks too,
(37:22):
and Peterson said that he didn't wantme helping her change the locks. I
said, I got his message thatwas about the front door. He told
me not to be changed to thelocks. To the front door, and
I told him I didn't do it. So Drew knows about the dead bolt
in the bedroom, pissed. Hehas no business but the key for that
(37:42):
house. How did he know aboutthe dead bolt in the room? Mm
hmm. I guess it was oneof the times when he snuck in or
broke in or barged in right becauseand wasn't locked, and he was pissed
because he could not get in.That's what it's sounds like to me.
How else did he know, Like, how dare you try to prevent me
(38:06):
from coming in? Right? It'sjust very entitled narcissistic attitude at this point,
because it's not even like I couldsee him coming to the house because
they've got the kids. Whatever.He comes to the house, but this
is on the bedroom door that isnow her bedroom. Why does he need
to get in there? He doesn't? He just because he can't anyway,
(38:31):
just a random thought. But Tomwould go on to testify that when Kathleen
was moving some things into the garageagain he has moved out, Drew called
up Tom and this is a quotefrom Tom. He told me he didn't
want anyone moving his staff and anyfriend of hers was an enemy of mine.
So then Tom was questioned about theappearance of the bathtub that Kathleen was
(38:53):
in because he was there with Mary, and he said, quote, I
didn't observe nothing except there was notowel there. It was clean, pristine,
no ring around the tub, nosoap scum. It was clean.
And then they asked if he sawwater in the tub, and Tom said
no. I made a comment,where was her clothes that she had on
(39:15):
that she was going to put on? There was no rug, there was
no towel. That's interesting, yeah, because normally if okay, again,
not a shower situation, a bathtubsituation, when you're getting out of a
bathtub, you're soaking wet, youwant a towel right there. Bath met's
probably a safe bet so you don'tslip and fall. But again, that's
(39:37):
a good question about the clothes too. I mean, I guess I am
been in a hamper, like youput him in the hamper, and then
you just like, if I takea bath, I'll just walk. I'll
have the towel and just walk tomy room to get my clothes so I
can see that. But I'm gonnahave a towel Yeah, for sure,
I'm gonna have a towel, awashcloth, I'm gonna have something. So
(40:00):
and then the defense gets to crossexamine Tom, and they really focused on
how Drew reacted after Mary left thebathroom, leaving just Drew and Tom there
with Kathleen's body. And this isa back and forth here. So I'll
be the defense and Jen is goingto be Tom. So I'll start the
defense. After the discovery of Kathyand the tub, you and Stephen,
(40:22):
Drew waited for the paramedics. No, I stayed up there with Drew.
They the others left. He repeatsthat he heard Drew say, what am
I going to tell my kids?Drew made a phone call, Yes,
and he said, they just foundmy ex wife dead in the bathroom and
people are going to think I didit. Yes, he didn't want to
(40:45):
go into the house alone because hethought he'd be blamed if something was a
miss probably, so already he's like, I'm not gonna put on a shoo
to grieve. I'm just gonna standhere because if I do anything, I'm
gonna get blamed for it. He'salready thinking he's gonna be a prom ssspect
(41:07):
and probably he was correct in thinkingso, and I know I said it
last time, but I'm gonna sayit again. My gosh, it sounds
like Scott Peterson. Oh, they'regonna think I did it. He's already
trying to save face, like whenhe talked to the neighbor and said,
oh I was golfing, or ohI scratched my hand on the door.
Like It's just the parallels kind ofcreep me out. But remember how Tom
(41:30):
put that dead bolt on the door. Well, that night of Kathleen's death
when they're all there, it wasreported to have had scratches and a hole
in the door around the dead bolt. So is that how he knew because
he was trying to get in therebecause it was dead bolted. Maybe maybe
not. Now the defense questioned Tomabout you do we want to cut?
(41:52):
Oh yes, yes, all right, we're gonna get back to Tom's testimony,
but we're gonna do that in episodethree. So guys, hold on
and become a Patreon because if youare a Patreon, you can go ahead
and listen to the entire series beforeanybody else. Speaking of which, we
do have a new Patreon supporter thatwe would like to shout out and that
(42:15):
is Jennifer, So welcome Jennifer.You can hop on. I don't know
when this is gonna get released.It depends on I had some horrible computer
issues that I'm hoping we get throughthis recording. So assuming this release is
before, not sure. But Thursdaynight, the twenty seventh is our Patreon
(42:37):
Live that you can join us,come hang out, talk to us.
We do a story for half andthen just chill for half three dollars and
up Discord server. Lots of fun. You do have to make Discord and
Patreon talk. There's a way togo into your settings and like give permission
to the apps and it'll automatically connectyou to us. So welcome. We're
(42:59):
excited to have you. Because ofa ten dollars Patreon you're going to get
the quarterly gift. Now you haveto be a Patreon for the full quarter
to get the gift, but thisquarter's gift is awesome, so you are
going to have to wait to seewhat it is. But until then,
you know what they said to Felicia. Bye bye,
Everyone. It's Jen and this isLindsay and welcome back to Corpus Delicti the
podcast. We are currently on episodetwo of the Drew Peterson kind of our
Peterson series, Yeah, which,as we said in the last one,
was sort of a joke, butnow we are rolling with it. So
if you have not listened to thefirst episode yet, you do want to
(00:46):
stop and do so. This isthe second one in a series of what
we're pretty sure is going to bethree. We are trying to knock those
out tonight. So super brief recap. We ended the last episode with Drew's
young wife Stacy going missing, sayingshe ran off with a guy, but
it prompted them to reopen the deathof his third wife before Stacy, who
(01:11):
had quote unquote drowned in a bathtub. Now, one thing that we want
to clarify right off the bat iswe weren't sure in the last episode the
specifics about the tub and how shewas laying, so we looked it up
and just to clarify, it wasa tub, only it was not a
(01:32):
shower. It's an oval tub andher body was indeed facing away from the
faucet. Her head was at theback of the tub. Like Jen said
in the last episode, she wasalmost in the fetal position sort of.
She's on her side, but herface and chest are turned down. So
(01:52):
just to clarify that, and nowwe will go ahead and jump in.
At the end of the first episode, we learned that thea had exhumed Kathleen
and another autopsy was done. Rememberoriginally there were no marks. Well it
was actually there was a lot onthe front of her body. Remember the
(02:13):
gash on her head was on theback. She also had scrapes down her
back, so she is bruised front, back, all over, and they
determined that they had to have beeninflicted in twenty four hours. Now,
the original autopsy did list these butthe reason it was reported that there were
no marks was because the autopsy saidthey were old. In other words,
(02:38):
they said it happens before her death, it wasn't related. The new autopsy
disagrees with this. Also, thenew autopsy says the abrasions on Kathleen's body
could not have been caused by herback rubbing up against the smooth surface of
her bathtub. We're going to discussthis a little bit more on trial when
(03:00):
we bring in those doctors and wetalk about what they say. But the
police have to change tactics. Nowthey have to interview Drew because he knows
the tricks. So how do youinterview an ex cop or right now,
he's currently a cop. He hasn'tleft the force, so real quick,
(03:21):
just to again go over the injurieshere, because they said at first there
weren't any, but now they're saying, oh, well, that's because they
just weren't relevant. There were nonerelated to the event. But she's got
the big gash on her head,on the back of her head, she
is bruising on the front of herbody near her chest and then scrapes down
(03:43):
her back. She is in abathtub, not a shower. So going
back to now, we've got totalk to Drew, right, So Peterson
tells the media that this was justa regular household accident. He's getting a
ton of attention because he's the primesuspect in both of these incidents and he
(04:08):
knows this now, so he can'treally use his position at the police department
to get him out of this because, as we talked about in the last
one, it went beyond his localdepartment. At this point, they're pulling
in state police. This has gottenbigger than him and no one can protect
him now. But there's one thingthat he thinks he can do, which
(04:28):
he did do, and that wascharm and persuade people into believing that he
had nothing to do with it.So he starts doing interviews with anyone who
would listen. If they're going toput him in front of the camera,
He's like, yes, I'm in, and he is going to convince people
that way. So on one showhe said, quote, I don't believe
(04:49):
she's missing. I believe she iswhere she wants to be. On January
twenty third of two thousand and eight, Drew and his lawyer gave an interview
with a Chicago radio station with SteveDahl. When his lawyer suggested a dating
game and the winner gets a datewith Drew, Dall says, oh,
(05:14):
I'll do a dating game with you, because this is kind of the part
of the stick With the radio DJ. They had a lot of competitions.
Well, Drew's lawyer goes, Hey, Drew, it's up to you.
Matt well Peterson says, well,I don't know. You're gonna have to
ask the lawyer, and the lawyersays, yeah, why not. So
(05:34):
you're a suspect in one wife's disappearance, another wife's death, prime suspect.
Why would anyone want to date you? Why are you going on saying yeah,
I'm good with it. Just askmy lawyer make sure that's okay.
Well, the station manager was like, absolutely not. We're stopping it dead
(05:59):
in its track, shut it down. And his lawyers said that his client
didn't do anything wrong and he isentitled to have a little fun. And
that's what lawyer says. I mean, technically speaking, yes, but the
optics are bad and you've got toknow it. You've got to know that
it's a bad look. Now,let's say you know, he has not
(06:20):
been in front of a court oflaw at this time, so innocent until
proven guilty. But the dude hada PR person in the last episode.
Where is that PR person now?Because that looks bad? Why would you
even need a PR person? Ron, You're a suspect in a murder case.
(06:41):
You're a suspecting your other your wife'sdisappearance. But we're going to talk
about Drew's step brother. His brotherwas recovering in the hospital after trying to
take his own life when the policecame and did an interview with him.
During the interview, he had heto spill an oh Boy Diddy. On
(07:02):
the day before Stacy goes missing,Drew was talking to his stepbrother about his
relationship with Stacy. Drew was sayingthat Stacy was cheating on him and Drew
had to quote take care of thisproblem. Drew asks his step brother if
he loves Drew enough to kill forhim. Point blank says, hey,
(07:23):
jeez, you love me. Youlove me enough to kill for me.
Well, his brother was like,I'm not gonna do this. I can't
live with this knowledge. Knowing aboutthis conversation, He's like, I just
can't live with this. Well,his brother kind of suspected already that Drew
had killed Kathleen. So this isDrew coming to his brother stepbrother and saying,
(07:48):
will you help me kill Stacy mycurrent wife? And his brother's like,
mm mmm, nope, I alreadythink he did something to Kathleen.
So Drew takes his stepbrother on acar and brings him to a storage unit
rental place and he tells his brotherhe said, hey, rent a unit
for me, and he says inreturn, I will give you two thousand
(08:09):
dollars, but in order to renta unit, you have to have a
government and issued ID, which atthat point his stepbrother did not have.
Later that day, his stepbrother calledDrew and said, I don't want any
part of this. Whatever you're doing, I don't want to know. So
Drew comes to his stepbrother's house thenext day, so Drew's he keeps saying
(08:33):
no. His stepbrother keeps saying no, and Drew keeps coming back to him.
So the next day comes to hisstepbrother's house. He takes his stepbrother
on another car rider. This time, Drew gives his stepbrother a cell phone
and tells him, do not answerit. Forty five minutes later, that
phone rang twice. The caller IDshowed that it was Stacy. Now let's
(08:58):
just plant that seed here. That'ssomething you need to follow. He gives
his stepbrother his cell phone, saysdo not answer it. Forty five minutes
later, it rings twice and itsays it's Stasty. Well, now Drew
drives his stepbrother back to Drew's house. There, Drew is pulling out a
large blue barrel out of his bedroom, because we all have large blue barrels
(09:22):
in our bedroom floys. Now pictureit as one of those large oil bearing
drums. That's the kind of bigblue barrel we're talking about. Step brother
helps Drew take the barrel down thestairs and helps him load it into Drew's
car. He remembers that the barrelis warm to the touch, it's not
(09:43):
cold. Drew gives a step brothersome money and drops them back at home,
saying, oh, by the way, this never happened. So Drew's
stepbrother's like, I don't want anypart of this. Don't get me involved.
And of course does Drew listen,Absolutely not. But there's an issue
with the whole this never happened.Neighbors saw it. The neighbors guess what
(10:09):
when they were asked by the policeand the media, they told them exactly
what they saw. So his stepbrotheris now thinking, oh my god,
I just helped him get rid ofStacy's body. This is when he starts
to have suicidal tendencies and tries totake his own life, ends up in
the hospital, and then the policecome and talk to him, and there's
(10:31):
that's when he spills all this information. So the prosecution needs this information,
right, this is a big deal. So they are offering this step brother
full immunity if he testifies against SoDrew and his lawyer made a deal.
They're going to start doing talk shows. They're going to do all these news
circuit interviews, and they're going toget paid to do each one of these,
(10:52):
and they're going to divide the profits. Okay, so now this is
almost like a business. How isthat well ethical? Does that happen now?
Like a notorious suspect goes and doesthese interviews free trial and the lawyer's
there. I'm sure it happens.Whether or not it's ethical, I don't
(11:13):
know, but I'm sure that happensnow. I mean, especially with a
big sensational crime, everybody wants totalk to him. Okay, Now Drew's
a suspect all the way. Thingsare just happening to him one after another.
And now it's February twenty first,two thousand and eight, Stacy's still
missing. The pathologist who conducted thissecond autopsy concluded that Kathleen's death was a
(11:37):
result of homicide. So his stepbrotherkind of threw him under the bus.
He's doing these talk shows saying thatStacy left, and all of a sudden,
now comes out Kathleen's death was ahomicide. It was murder because they
looked at the bruises and the waythe body was positioned in the tub.
(11:58):
The police bring Drew in for apolygraph, and when you know what,
he failed, and he reportedly failedon these three questions, which are really
interesting. Did you know your wifewas leaving you? He would say yes.
The next one asked whether he hadseen Stacy the night before she vanished,
and he said yes. And finally, when asked whether he knew where
(12:20):
Stacy was now, he said no. So I don't know if that was
nerves if, of course, polygraphyou take it with a great assault,
to be honest, but it's it'skind of telling here. So October two
thousand and eight, Drew meets ChristinaReins in a bar where she was working.
She had actually met Drew back whenshe was fifteen years old, and
(12:43):
they started dating when she was twentythree. She said that this relationship started
out as a friendship. Her dadwas not happy at all about it.
He knew that Drew was a policeofficer, knew that he was super old
at this point, and he hadseen in all the media coverage. And
this is a quote from her dad, It says, quote, we moved
(13:05):
to Bolingbrook when we were little,and Drew Peterson was a policeman, a
sergeant at the time, and hehelped me a lot, and I trusted
him, and all of a suddenlater on I got word that he was
trying to date my daughter. AfterStacy disappeared and six months ago, I
believe it was. My daughter worksat a restaurant and he was going in
there and then going where she washanging out and just kept pursuing her.
(13:26):
So he called the state police aboutStacy and Kathleen. He just wants to
make sure his daughter's safe. He'slike, can you give me an update.
I just don't feel really good aboutthis, and they said, we
wish you luck, but there's nothingwe can do now. They get engaged,
(13:48):
and she claims that the engagement wasa stunt and not a real engagement.
She has moved in with him.At this point, Stacy is still
missing, but she is. Heis considered still alive at this point,
so she's just missing still. Soat this point they can't get married,
engagement or not. Her dad wasabsolutely having none of it. He said,
(14:11):
you know what you're done, You'removing home. I don't care.
He is a prime suspect and amurder. He's prime suspect and a missing
potentially another murder. You're not livingwith her. So her dad calls a
few police officers and he's like,you know what, we're gonna move you
out. And so he has aposse with him. He goes to Drew's
(14:33):
home. Media is there. They'recamped out. They're like, this is
media gold, we are here towitness this. Drew is furious. He
slams the door on Christina and herdad because she was there with him.
It took the police having her dadget off the property before she could take
her things. So Drew is pissed. He's upset. This puts him in
(14:56):
a bad light. He's not lettingthe dad anywhere near the house are on
his land, and as soon ashe's able to step onto the street,
he allows the police and Christina tocome in and pack their things and get
out. Now, Drew claims,yeah, the engagement's real. She asked
him to marry her. You know, she had asked five or six times
(15:18):
to get married to him. Heclaims he finally said yes, and then
all of a sudden she starts demandinga ring. November two thousand and eight,
we're gonna go back to Drew andhis lawyer here they're being interviewed by
Diana Pritzer talking about his upcoming weaponscharge. That's right, he can't have
weapons and he got caught with weaponsand the charges are centered around him owning
(15:46):
a gun that is has too shortof a barrel, like a solid off
shotgun. But this is when hewas still a police officer. So that
gun was actually seized during the executionof a search warrant from November two thousand
and seven, and like Jen said, it was basically a sawed off rifle.
(16:08):
So he ended up turning himself inonce that warrant was executed, and
his son wrote a check for seventyfive hundred dollars to bail him out of
jail. The charges were later droppedbecause the judge ruled that since he was
a police officer at the time,he was allowed to possess this. So
(16:30):
because he's got a history, buddhe's a police officer, which one are
we going to go with? Sonow let's go to April first of two
thousand and nine. Drew does somethingabsolutely disgusting, and he calls a local
radio station and he's telling the radioDJs that he has something weighing heavy on
his heart. And he starts talkingabout how he had been on the phone
(16:52):
with his attorney for the last halfan hour and the attorney was telling him
to keep his mouth shut, buthe just had had to come clean with
it. He wanted to do iton the radio. And everyone's like,
oh my gosh, what is thisdude about to say? And he says
the chicken wings on the Dixon Barand grill were the best he ever ate.
That restaurant is owned by his lawyer, so he baited switched into a
(17:19):
promo breeze. That's exactly what hedid. Speaking of promo breaks, we
won't take one real quick, andwe will be back in just a moment.
Not for our own restaurant though,because that doesn't exist. All right,
guys, thank you so much forjust hanging in there with a really
bad joke. We're back to ourstory, all right. Drew starts to
(17:42):
give away and sell all of Stacy'sclothes, and I'm not talking just jeans
and shirts. He sold her underwearand brawls or at least tried to,
but he was going to try toget that money. It would take another
year and a half before Drew wouldbe charged with Kathleen's from murder. Drew
was indicted and arrested on May seventh, two thousand and nine. His bill
(18:07):
is set at two million. Buthere's an issue and it's going to come
up later. The lead investigator neverhad done a homicide before, so there's
gonna be a few oopsies in thisinvestigation. As you can tell, they
interviewed him in the breakroom, Sothe police had interviewed Drew in a breakroom
(18:32):
instead of an interrogation room. Thebreakroom does not have cameras, the breakroom
doesn't have a tape recorder. Thebreakroom conversation could have been anything that they
had written down on either side,you know. So let's go to the
trial because he is charged and there'sa lot to discuss here because when they
(19:00):
get all of you know, thelist, you got to know who is
on the potential witness list and allthat. The defense straight up puts Stacy
on their potential witness list. SoJuly thirty first, twenty twelve, this
is years down the road. That'swhen we start. Drew has hired not
one, not two, but sixlawyers who were all top notch, very
(19:21):
well seasoned lawyers, and they wereabsolute clowns in front of the media.
During one media press release, oneof the reporters asked about Stacy. Two
of Drew's legal teams said Stacy,Stacy, who and they laughed, that's
tacky. That's right. It wasshacky. It was so cringe. I
was watching that and they were inlike the Drew's in front of the camera,
(19:47):
in front of the mic. Thetwo lawyers are on his left side
behind him, and it just lookedlike a frat party, bad joke.
They were just laughing and they werekind of moving around and just giving each
other like, hey, dude,that was awesome joke. It was so
cringe. So also, Drew's legalteam before the trial asked the judge to
(20:10):
exclude testimony from the divorce lawyer andtheir pastor, since Stacy had told them
both of them that she was scaredthat Drew was going to kill her like
he did Kathleen. Now, thereasoning here is that Kathleen and Stacy could
not be at the trial to testifythat she had actually told them that so
(20:33):
they're like, look, it's hearsaybasically, is what they're trying to argue.
The judge ruled against it, anda law was actually soon passed that
a person could testify to what wassaid to them if that person came out
dead, so they would allow thishearsay evidence from a third party. Now
(20:53):
there is no physical evidence, there'sno fingerprints, there's no DNA, there's
no sign of a break in.The Only thing we have is a dead
woman who at one point they saidhad accidentally drowned in a completely dry bathtub.
(21:15):
Okay, that's what we have goinginto this case, and then now
a missing woman. What they dohave is Kathleen talking to her friends and
family. She had told them andthe people around her that Drew had threatened
to kill her and he was goingto make it look like an accident.
He has said that several times.He has said that to several wives that
he was going to make it looklike an accident. The defense went up
(21:40):
against James Glassglow. Now, heis a veteran prosecutor. He has a
conviction rate that is one of thehighest in the state at that time,
so he knows his stuff. Sobefore opening statements. Greenberg, the lead
defense attorney for Drew Peterson. Iguess the other lawyer that did the whole
(22:00):
dating game thing kind of get bumpeddown that list because Greenberg decided to lead
the charge. He starts off withemotion to the court, saying that since
the divorce had happened before her death, Peterson had no financial gain or benefit
from killing Kathleen. What he didfail to mention is that he is having
(22:21):
to give half of his pension toher when he retires, and all the
child support payments that he was courtordered to pay, so there is a
financial benefit there, so that motivecould not be brought up in the prosecution
statements. This was the motion thatthey filed. The prosecution responds to that
by arguing that there is no pertinlaw that limits what could be said during
(22:45):
open arguments and dispute's case law citedby the defense. So defense is saying,
hey, can't bring this up.We don't want you to bring this
up, and the prosecution goes thereis nothing on the books that says I
can't There is nothing saying I can'tsay what I want to say during my
opening argument. So the judge agreeswith the prosecution denies the motion because it's
(23:11):
not up to the prosecution to provea motive. Their charge is to prove
beyond a reasonable doubt. The prosecutionwould say, quote, the evidence will
show that on March first, twothousand and four, Kathleen Savio's lifeless body
was found in her bathtub. Kathleenwas murdered, and it was staged to
(23:33):
look like an accident. So hegoes on to say that in June of
two thousand and two, Peterson brokeinto Kathleen's home and threatened her. At
nine point, he starts to describean incident in which Peterson allegedly tried to
hire someone to kill Kathleen. Thedefense strongly objects, not even a few
(23:55):
sentences in, and you can tellthe objections are flying. I mean,
there's objections in opening statements, andit's going to be a fight here.
We can see that already. Andthe defense is mad because Glasgow is already
pointing the finger at Drew saying hetried to hire someone to kill Kathleen.
So the judge rules in favor ofthe defense on this one, and the
(24:17):
defense says, you know what,we're going for a mistrial. You gave
us that let's shoot for the starsthat was denied. So and if you
want to play a fun drinking gameat this point, anytime they follow in
motion for mistrial, take a shot. Oh boy, you might be woppling
at the end. So back inthe opening statement by the prosecution, they
(24:37):
walked through the time where Drew triedto drop his kids off at Kathleen's home.
Remember we talked about that in thelast episode. And this is a
quote here. On February seventeenth,two thousand and four, the defendant picked
up his children for visitation. Thekids were due back Sunday evening. The
defendant says he went to the door, but no one answered. He took
(25:00):
the kids and went home. Uponfinding his wife not there, he makes
no attempt to ask others where shemight be. He simply goes home the
next day, Monday, March First, he begins to make phone calls.
He finally makes a call to neighborMary Pontererelli. Then Drew Peterson causes locksmith
to open the door. Four neighborswent in and found her, not the
(25:23):
police. Because he calls the locksmithfirst, he doesn't know the scenario inside
the house, neighbors go in,they find her. Within an hour.
The investigator at the Illinois State Policeconcluded that it was an accident, which
the coroner agreed within an hour.Now it would have stayed an accidental drowning
until Kathleen and Drew's pastor, whohad provided them with marriage counseling, was
(25:47):
called in for jury duty. Soduring this time he had information that he
gave to the police a bow drewwhich led to Kathleen's body being exhumed.
Then they did the second auto.The pathologist ruled that the death was a
homicide, and doctor Mary Chase,who was a neuropathologist, said, there
(26:07):
are injuries not consistent with a fallin that bathtubs. Right after Stacey goes
missing, the pastor gets called himto be a jury on another case,
and he pulls aside one of thelawyers or one of the da prosecution and
he goes, hey, this isweighing heavy on me. I'm here now,
might as well tell you what Iknow. So this is why not
(26:29):
why, But it was a factorof variable in the thought of getting Kathleen
eg zoom zoon. So with that, the prosecution closes their opening statements.
The defense has their turn. Now. The defense had barely started going through
Drew's life with the prosecution objected threetimes, I'm just having flashbacks to the
John eyed up amberferd I answer whereit was just constant, and each time
(26:52):
the judge agrees with the prosecution,telling the defense that their comments are inappropriate
since it's sounding like they are testifyingto the jury. The defense is painting
Kathleen as hot tempered and bossy aboutthe business they ran while Drew is outworking.
He is a police officer, he'sa narcotics undercover agent, and she's
(27:14):
being painted as kind of the tyrantin the relationship. All right, So
the defense would go on to say, quote they started to fight about money,
she would lose her temper easily overnothing, and she would make a
scene. He would try to calmher down, but nothing could control Kathy.
The marriage had become dysfunctional. Ultimately, Drew just had to move to
(27:37):
the basement. And in March twothousand and two, Kathy finds out that
Drew had taken Stacy on a vacationto Mexico. She gets livid, wants
him out of the house. She'sangry, she wants to get her way
possible quote, she wants to gether what She's angry. Yeah, she's
angry he brought a not even alegal aged child to live in her basement
(28:02):
of her house to schnook her husbanddownstairs while she's upstairs sleep with I would
be angry too, I'm angry forher. So, getting back to the
quote, it says, so shegoes to court, she files a petition
for an order of protection, andshe fills it with Li's stupid, ridiculous
statements. Okay, pause here justfor a second, guys, I just
(28:23):
want to make this clear. Ifyou can't present your statement without name calling,
without degrading, those statements take awayyour credibility. The more you name
call and the more you pass thosejudgmental adjectives against somebody, it really just
(28:45):
degrades it. That's my personal Imean it's and for me, my personal
opinion is you want it to bebased in fact. You have to prove
something here, you know, andnow granted you know this is the defense.
They don't have to prove, youknow, they do, but technically
it's on the prosecution. But youwant it to be based in fact.
(29:07):
But you know, a lot oftimes things are based in emotion. We
know that, and it's unfortunate becausein this case it sounds like straight up
victim blaming. It does well.Going back to the quote, she says
she gets an order of protection thatputs him out of the house. Drew
causes lawyer Kathy has served for thedivorce petition and in order to vacate the
home. So he's telling her she'sgot to get out. So all of
(29:30):
these papers flying back and forth,and all of a sudden, Kathy agrees
to drop her petition for the orderof protection and Drew agrees to move out.
That avoids the hearing and all theseunproven allegations. And never again until
after Kathy's death, did you everhear anything again about the order of protection?
So he the defense is really justcoming down to this. It's a
(29:53):
he said, she said she gotmad. She's throwing hands and words,
he's throwing hands in words. Theykind of come together, they withdraw everything.
That's why you don't hear about it. And he even goes so far
as to describe Kathleen as a madwoman. Goodness, So, when the
defense finally gets around to the nightin question, the night that Kathleen died.
(30:15):
They focus the conversation around Kathleen's boyfriend. All right, so it's a
three day weekend. He comes overone night and they had intimacy, and
then they had plans the following day, and so her boyfriend's like, no,
I've got plans. I don't wantto hang out with you. And
(30:36):
then quote, Kathy wants him tocome over. She wants to discuss marriage
with her boyfriend. He's not readyto discuss marriage. That call ends about
midnight, and that's the last timeanyone hears from Kathy. So what the
defense is saying is that the boyfriendnow has a motive because he was there
(30:56):
Friday they had sex, but onSaturday it was a love them, leave
them type of situation and he wasupset that she wanted marriage. So they
are trying to present an alternate suspectat this point. So then the defense
talks about the day that Drew calledthe locksmith, because at the time,
(31:18):
the media was like, why notcall the police, and his answer to
this was meaning the defense was,well, Drew was the police. He
just needed to get in there.Well, he's busted in there before without
calling a locksmith. Why did hecall a locksmith this time, but that's
just me. He busted through thedrywall in the garage and stole the garage
door openers and programmed them so hecould get in. He got into that
(31:41):
house on multiple occasions before. SoStill in opening arguments, the defense claims
that the first autopsy indicated a negativetoxicology report and found the death to be
accidental. We know that, right, No witness to foul play, no
murder weapon, no crime scene,no sign of forced entry, no sign
of a struggle. The bathroom wasin perfect order. There's not one shred
(32:04):
of evidence that Drew Peterson or anyoneelse was in that house. Now remember
that, because oh my gosh,there is such a debate going on about
the bath mats. Were they there? Were they not? There? Were
they taken? You know what happenedin that bathroom the days after? And
we're gonna get to that. Thatthat is a key testimony from one of
(32:25):
the witnesses that we're gonna get to. But right now, we're gonna get
to the first witness. Let's talkabout the first witness that they bring up,
and it's gonna be married. Thisis the neighbor next door that actually
walked into the bathroom and found Kathleen. Now, Mary and Kathleen had been
very good friends, their kids playedtogether, they live next door. Mary
would say that first Kathleen and Drewthere were good people. They were great.
(32:49):
She would see them almost every day, like you do your neighbors,
you know, getting out back andforth. Mary recalled that Kathleen was extremely
upset when she found out that herhusband and was carrying on an affair in
their home in the basement. WhenDrew moved out, Mary's husband would put
a deadlock on Kathleen's bedroom door becauseKathleen was scared. So Mary's husband comes
(33:15):
into the house and puts that deadlockon just to help Kathleen feel safe,
because that early on she had expressedfear of something. Right, she did
not feel safe that early on,because she had also had already sent that
letter to the DA begging, beggingfor him to get looked into, and
they never did. Drew, rememberhe only moved a few houses down the
(33:39):
street. Down the street. Theylived on the same street, just a
few houses. And remember he'd alsorollerblade flipping her the bird every time they
passed the house. So yeah,she's scared. And she felt the dead
bolt was needed well. The afternoonof Kathleen's death, Mary told the jury
that she saw Kathleen and they talkedon Mary's front porch. Quote. Me
(34:01):
and Kathleen met on the front ofmy porch. She says. She had
a great week at school, helpeddeliver a baby. She was studying to
become a nurse. Now. Accordingto Mary, Kathleen said that she was
going to stay home and study thatnight, despite Mary's invitation to a party.
Because Mary's like, hey, comewith us, come and joy come
(34:21):
partake, and Kathleen's like, no, I gotta study. I'm in nursing
school. It is a full timething. When Mary and her husband came
home from that party around midnight,they noticed a light still on a Kathleen's
home. Quote this is from Mary. I made a comment to tom Aka
or her husband, Wow, Kathystill up because the light in her bedroom
(34:45):
was on. I only remember thatone light in her bedroom. Mary did
not notice any cars parked in thedriveway or the street, so she just
assumed Kathy is up studying. Now. The next day, Mary asked her
son Nick to knock on Kathleen's door, but no one answered. Kathleen also
(35:06):
never answered her phone again. Sothat evening on March first, Drew came
by with the kids, and thisis again a quote from Mary. She
says, he asked me if I'dheard from Kathleen that day. He said
he'd tried to bring the kids back, but Kathleen still wasn't home. So
that's when the locksmith comes. Theyopened the door, Mary noticed that all
(35:27):
the lights were off. Okay,she's the one who noticed that light on.
The night before Steve Carcerano and Iwent up the stairs towards Kathy's bedroom.
Drew was still down by the bottomof the steps, and she believes
that Drew turned the first light on, but she's not positive. Now this
is when Mary went into the bedroom, then into the bathroom that was within
(35:51):
the bedroom, and found Kathleen inthe tub. She started screaming, which
caused Mary's husband to come running upthe stairs, and she says that Drew
did take her pulse. She said, is she dead? And he said,
yes, Mary, she is.Let's talk about the hair clip.
Mary said that Kathleen always clipped herhair back when she wanted to take a
(36:13):
bath, and she didn't want toget her hair wet. She did say
that she did not see a clip, but there's a lot going on emotional
event. Was she sure don't reallyknow, but we do know that there
was that head wound on the backof her head. So the defense cross
examines Mary and they asked her aboutKathleen being bossy or over exaggerating things,
(36:37):
and Mary fled out denies it.She's like, no, that's not Kathleen.
The defense asked her about Drew.What was Drew wearing March first when
he came by. Mary said Drewwas in his police sergeant's uniform. Second
day of the trial, August eighth, Mary's husband, Tom is called to
(36:59):
the stand and he's gonna talk aboutthe lock on the door, the dead
bolt. He testified that Peterson isupset that Tom installed a lock on the
bedroom door. One Peterson's not evenliving in the house. Kathleen is,
it ain't none of his business.Now, do you care? Yeah,
but he does care. Peterson calledhim about the front door locks too,
(37:22):
and Peterson said that he didn't wantme helping her change the locks. I
said, I got his message thatwas about the front door. He told
me not to be changed to thelocks. To the front door, and
I told him I didn't do it. So Drew knows about the dead bolt
in the bedroom, pissed. Hehas no business but the key for that
(37:42):
house. How did he know aboutthe dead bolt in the room? Mm
hmm. I guess it was oneof the times when he snuck in or
broke in or barged in right becauseand wasn't locked, and he was pissed
because he could not get in.That's what it's sounds like to me.
How else did he know, Like, how dare you try to prevent me
(38:06):
from coming in? Right? It'sjust very entitled narcissistic attitude at this point,
because it's not even like I couldsee him coming to the house because
they've got the kids. Whatever.He comes to the house, but this
is on the bedroom door that isnow her bedroom. Why does he need
to get in there? He doesn't? He just because he can't anyway,
(38:31):
just a random thought. But Tomwould go on to testify that when Kathleen
was moving some things into the garageagain he has moved out, Drew called
up Tom and this is a quotefrom Tom. He told me he didn't
want anyone moving his staff and anyfriend of hers was an enemy of mine.
So then Tom was questioned about theappearance of the bathtub that Kathleen was
(38:53):
in because he was there with Mary, and he said, quote, I
didn't observe nothing except there was notowel there. It was clean, pristine,
no ring around the tub, nosoap scum. It was clean.
And then they asked if he sawwater in the tub, and Tom said
no. I made a comment,where was her clothes that she had on
(39:15):
that she was going to put on? There was no rug, there was
no towel. That's interesting, yeah, because normally if okay, again,
not a shower situation, a bathtubsituation, when you're getting out of a
bathtub, you're soaking wet, youwant a towel right there. Bath met's
probably a safe bet so you don'tslip and fall. But again, that's
(39:37):
a good question about the clothes too. I mean, I guess I am
been in a hamper, like youput him in the hamper, and then
you just like, if I takea bath, I'll just walk. I'll
have the towel and just walk tomy room to get my clothes so I
can see that. But I'm gonnahave a towel Yeah, for sure,
I'm gonna have a towel, awashcloth, I'm gonna have something. So
(40:00):
and then the defense gets to crossexamine Tom, and they really focused on
how Drew reacted after Mary left thebathroom, leaving just Drew and Tom there
with Kathleen's body. And this isa back and forth here. So I'll
be the defense and Jen is goingto be Tom. So I'll start the
defense. After the discovery of Kathyand the tub, you and Stephen,
(40:22):
Drew waited for the paramedics. No, I stayed up there with Drew.
They the others left. He repeatsthat he heard Drew say, what am
I going to tell my kids?Drew made a phone call, Yes,
and he said, they just foundmy ex wife dead in the bathroom and
people are going to think I didit. Yes, he didn't want to
(40:45):
go into the house alone because hethought he'd be blamed if something was a
miss probably, so already he's like, I'm not gonna put on a shoo
to grieve. I'm just gonna standhere because if I do anything, I'm
gonna get blamed for it. He'salready thinking he's gonna be a prom ssspect
(41:07):
and probably he was correct in thinkingso, and I know I said it
last time, but I'm gonna sayit again. My gosh, it sounds
like Scott Peterson. Oh, they'regonna think I did it. He's already
trying to save face, like whenhe talked to the neighbor and said,
oh I was golfing, or ohI scratched my hand on the door.
Like It's just the parallels kind ofcreep me out. But remember how Tom
(41:30):
put that dead bolt on the door. Well, that night of Kathleen's death
when they're all there, it wasreported to have had scratches and a hole
in the door around the dead bolt. So is that how he knew because
he was trying to get in therebecause it was dead bolted. Maybe maybe
not. Now the defense questioned Tomabout you do we want to cut?
(41:52):
Oh yes, yes, all right, we're gonna get back to Tom's testimony,
but we're gonna do that in episodethree. So guys, hold on
and become a Patreon because if youare a Patreon, you can go ahead
and listen to the entire series beforeanybody else. Speaking of which, we
do have a new Patreon supporter thatwe would like to shout out and that
(42:15):
is Jennifer, So welcome Jennifer.You can hop on. I don't know
when this is gonna get released.It depends on I had some horrible computer
issues that I'm hoping we get throughthis recording. So assuming this release is
before, not sure. But Thursdaynight, the twenty seventh is our Patreon
(42:37):
Live that you can join us,come hang out, talk to us.
We do a story for half andthen just chill for half three dollars and
up Discord server. Lots of fun. You do have to make Discord and
Patreon talk. There's a way togo into your settings and like give permission
to the apps and it'll automatically connectyou to us. So welcome. We're
(42:59):
excited to have you. Because ofa ten dollars Patreon you're going to get
the quarterly gift. Now you haveto be a Patreon for the full quarter
to get the gift, but thisquarter's gift is awesome, so you are
going to have to wait to seewhat it is. But until then,
you know what they said to Felicia. Bye bye,
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