June 29, 2024 • 50 mins
In this episode we wrap up the trial, the conviction, and the aftermath... which interestingly involves another conviction.
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Music by:Kai Engel"Daemones"Blooper music by:Art of Escapism"Coal Miners"This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ or send a letter to Creative Commons, PO Box 1866, Mountain View, CA 94042, USA.
Sources:
To access earlier episodes of Corpus Delicti and to help support the show, please visit patreon.com/corpusdelicti
Our merch store can be found at teepublic.com/stores/corpus-delicti-podcast
Music by:Kai Engel"Daemones"Blooper music by:Art of Escapism"Coal Miners"This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ or send a letter to Creative Commons, PO Box 1866, Mountain View, CA 94042, USA.
Sources:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzT7f9wEDEg
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_53d3XSxa70
- https://www.reelz.com/extra/anonymous-warning-sent-drew-petersons-second-wife-kathleen-savio/
- http://www.acandyrose.com/2012-07-31-MaryPontarelli.pdf
- http://www.acandyrose.com/2012-08-01-ThomasPontarelli.pdf
- Crime files - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnZ3MUkXSeY
- https://abc7chicago.com/archive/8746096/
- https://www.sj-r.com/story/news/2008/05/21/drew-peterson-turns-himself-in/47538603007/
- https://petersonstory.wordpress.com/documents/
- 'The Horror of What Kathleen Savio Went Through Before She Died' | Bolingbrook, IL Patch
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:23):
Hey, everyone, it's Jen andthis is Lindsay. Welcome back to Corpus
Delicti the podcast and also episode three, maybe the last episode of Drew Peterson.
Yeah, most likely, we thinkso. If not, we're gonna
have to find another day this weekto record because we're not prepared for that.
So again, little quick recap ofwhere we left off. We were
(00:46):
in the trial. We were talkingto Tom, the neighbor who was married
to Mary. They were with thegroup who found Kathleen in the bathtub.
Drew had called the locksmith. Theywent in house together and they asked Mary
and now Tom about what they saw, and they were talking at the end
(01:07):
there about the dead bolt that Tomhad installed on Kathleen's bedroom door that when
on the night that Kathleen was founddeceased, looked like it had been picked
up, broken, busted hole,all that. So the defense questions Tom
about it and they're like, hey, did you do that when you were
(01:30):
installing it? What condition was itin when you left it? And he
says that he did not make thosescratches and indentations and that the door was
completely solid intact when he installed it. So the defense, as Jen mentioned
in the last episode, is gonnaask for another mistrial after Tom? Why
Tom? What did Tom do?Well? Tom had mentioned that he found
(01:53):
a bullet in his driveway that hethought had been placed there to scare him
intimidate him from chaining the locks onthe front door of the house. Now
there's no proof that it was putthere by Drew, but the jury heard
this because he said it, andthe defense claimed it shows our client and
a bad light. You had noproblem dragging the victim through the mud and
(02:16):
painting her in a bad light.You don't get to clean a mistrial for
that. Well, Greenberg, thedefense said, on behalf of mister Peterson,
we are asking for a mistrial withjeopardy attached. It was mentioned at
the prior hearsay hearing. There's noway of showing that mister Peterson did this.
(02:38):
The only reasonable sanction is for youto find a mistrial with prejudice,
and that's what we're asking for.Well, the judge said, you know
what, Nope, dismisses for therest of the day, and came back
later the next morning and dismisses twomotions for a mistrial. They filed several
(03:01):
motions of mistrass so here we go. Day three, we hear from the
paramedic that came to the house thenight Kathleen was found. His name is
Louis Oleskkevich. Lewis was a firefighterin the town of bowling Brook and he
(03:21):
was the first one on the scenewhen he received the call for a quote,
unresponsive female around ten twenty five pm. Lewis says, I answered the
bathroom. I found a female downin the bathtub. She had no pulse.
She appeared to have been deceased.I attached her to our electro cardiogram.
(03:43):
There is no electrical activity in theheart at the time. It prints
out a piece of paper with allthe electrical activity on it in which we
attached our report and it then issubmitted to the hospital. I didn't know
that, I'm the paramids could dothat. Good to know. Well.
The prosecut as did you go backout to the ambalance at any point that
(04:03):
night, and Louis said, yeah, We call the medical control physician,
let him know what we saw andhe will make the decision of whether or
not we work with the patient orwhether we pronounce them. And we don't
do any life saving action at thetime. So the paramedic calls this physician
and says, hey, this iswhat we found. This is what the
(04:25):
report says. There's no electrical activityin the heart. The guy goes,
okay, you could pronounce it,and so they pronounced her deceased at eleven
five pm. Now Lewis would tellthe jury that Kathleen is cold, she's
waxy, she's dried to the touch, but her hair is matted and damp.
(04:46):
So how is our hair damp?The matted from all the blood.
That's the blood, but damp isdifferent than the blood. So then there
is a lot of discussion about abluetowel because there is one picture with it
hanging up in the bathroom. Butremember Mary and Tom did not see a
(05:08):
towel. Lewis claims he did notsee it either. He mentioned to the
state police that he thought that itwas odd that a towel or bath mat
or nothing was there. None ofit was there. So next on the
stand is the locksmith who came tounlock the door. And the reason they
(05:29):
are bringing this up is that therewas a back and forth between Drew and
the locksmith that was very interesting.So Drew is used to calling this locksmith
Atkins for wellness checks throughout his career. He knew his work, and when
the locksmith came to the house,he went to the front door. This
is the door he usually starts with. The locksmith says, quote, I
(05:50):
went to the doorknob. The doorknobwas locked. It was the front door.
There were two locks, the deadbolt and the doorknob. I'll always
go to the front door because that'susually the one that's used the most.
It's a little bit easier. Ialways start on the locked ones because you'd
hate to unlock something and find thatit was already unlocked. He goes on
(06:12):
to say, quote, the firstthing I noticed was the knob or lock
was upside down. And then aftera few minutes, I went to the
dead bolt. After I picked thelock, there was absolutely no resistance when
I turned it, and I said, wow, this is unlocked. He
then explains how he was able totell that the deadlock was clearly unlocked,
(06:32):
and he went, wow, thisis great. One less locked to worry
about. So the prosecution asked himwhere was Drew Peterson when all this is
happening, and the locksmans says thatPeterson's right behind him and when they heard
Mary scream, Drew looked at himin the eye and said, I've got
to go and ran upstairs. Now, it's interesting that he didn't go into
(06:56):
the house with the neighbors. Hewas just kind of hanging out with the
locks, mean downstairs, just kindof waiting. So they go into a
lot about how someone needs training andcertifications to own or buy a lock picking
kit, and the long short ofit is it takes a lot of time
in practice, and the defense harpson this and it goes on and on
(07:17):
and on forever. Why what istheir tactic here? Well, they're trying
to prove that Drew did not knowhow to pick locks. Okay, but
they had found a lock picking kitin Drew's home when he was arrested in
two thousand and nine, so didhe. But at the end of the
(07:39):
day, it didn't matter because hehad the garage door opener unless she locked
the door from the garage to thehouse like that door that separates the interier
of the garage, which she problystarted doing once she found out he was
getting it. She probably did.The trial continues on August third, when
the prosecution cost to stand Kathleen's oldersister, Anna Duman. Anna testifies that
(08:05):
just six weeks prior to Kathleen's death, she had told her older sister,
So Kathleen had told Anna that Drewhad told Kathleen he was going to kill
her. She was not going tomake it to the divorce settlement. Kathleen
was not going to get his pensionor the kids. This is why she's
(08:26):
upset. This is why she madeher sister promise over and over again that
her sister would take care of theboys. During that conversation, Kathleen had
given Anna a suitcase. But suitcasecontained all of her important papers to keep
safe. She's afraid to keep themin the house. She had her will
in the suitcase. Remember his handwrittenwill that he tried to pass out.
(08:52):
No, no, no, Itwas in the suitcase at her sister's house.
The day that Kathleen was discovered,Drew had called Kathleen's family to let
them know of the accidental drowning.The following day, the family went over
to the home to locate Kathleen's will, if there's other copies, other insurance
information. They brought the suitcase justto with them and they when they get
(09:16):
there Drew shows up and bangs onthe door until he is let in the
house. He is not wanting themin the house unless he is there.
It gets weird. It's this iswhere it starts to get really weird.
Ana describes him going through the housefrantic. He's grabbing things from all over
the house, claiming that his kidsneeded No he did grab the kid's clothes,
(09:39):
but he spends a lot of timelooking through her bedroom, looking around
the room, and he then thefamily goes in there and says, hey,
you don't live here, what areyou doing? And he is just
frantically going room to room to roomto room. He then sees ca Lean's
(10:00):
purse. He goes in it,grabs her wallet and takes all the money
out of it and says, thisbelongs to the boys. Okay, and
it gets stranger. Drew was founda little bit later during his frantic search.
He's in the bathroom where they foundKathleen. He's scrubbing it clean.
(10:22):
He's cleaning the bathtub, and hisreasoning is he didn't want the boys to
see the blood. There's a pictureof the bathtub when they found Kathleen,
and there is a little bit ofblood there's not a blood ring like a
soap scum ring. So if shehad died, if the tub had been
(10:45):
full or had water in it,you would kind of see that residue that
would have been left behind. Butit was clean. There was no residue
in there, but he was stillin there cleaning it, which is really
odd and it's really kind of telling. So when and her family were getting
ready to leave and goes through thegarage, she then says that Drew grabbed
(11:07):
the garage door opener off of hercar, so she had just put it
on top of her car. Hegrabs it off her car and she couldn't
really do anything because she had alot of stuff in her hands. She
couldn't really give it back. Andhe said, standing in front of her
car, he was going to takethe opener, and she said, hey,
give it back, and he waslike, nope, I am not.
(11:31):
And she never got it back.So family had a copy of the
garage opener. He just flats outsteals it from her and just refuses to
give it back. So the prosecutionnow shifts their focus a little bit to
Kathleen and whether or not she hadany skin sensitivities, which is interesting,
(11:52):
but work with us here and said, yes she did, and this is
a quote. She said she wasvery sensitive to cheap jewelry, costume jewelry.
If it wasn't real gold, shewould get a rash. So then
she goes on to talk about thatKathleen loved to take her bath and when
I was with her at the housea few times, she would always take
(12:16):
her jewelry off before she got inthe bath because you don't want to ruin
it, you don't want to tarnishit. And she always took her jewelry
off before she got in the bath. Well, the reason that they're going
for this is because when Kathleen wasfound there was a gold necklace around her
neck, So why would she stillhave that on if she was bathing.
(12:39):
Now we're going to talk about whenthey exhumed Kathleen's body. It was kicked
off when Anne went on a FoxTV show, Greta Van Sustern. It
was on that show that the secondautopsy was brought up. Fox said,
hey, we'll give you fifty thousanddollars and we'll get doctor Bedeen, who
(13:01):
is a renowned pathologist for the wholething. But before we get there,
let's talk about the first optopsy thatwas done by Wills County's corodner, Michael
Vanover. Now, when Michael arrivesat Kathleen's home on March first, after
she has found he observed Kathleen inthe tub. He notices an abrasion,
which is a bruise on her leftside of her butt. Well, this
(13:24):
appears to be the only injury,so that's the only one that he really
documented, and she didn't have anyblunt force trauma, stabbings or gunshots.
Totally ignored the head wound, totally, the scratches, it was completely absent
from the autopsy report. So obviouslythat's one mess up. And we alluded
(13:48):
to in the earlier episodes how theyreally rushed to the decision. It's another
cop here. We got to takecare of her own type thing. So
instead of lying Kathleen on a sheetbefore putting her her body into the body
bag, he actually asks a statetrooper to bag her hands with you know,
covering her hands, and together theyplace her directly into the body bag,
(14:13):
so she's not covered by a sheet. So they kind of put bags
over her hands and picked her upwith her hands and put her in there.
So finally, so if that bodybag was not sterile, exact time
it was used, all of thatevidence, absolutely, all potential evidence is
out the window. So finally Kathleenwas placed into a transport car. She
(14:35):
was taken to the morgue at threein the morning, and Vanover follows to
the morgue. He conducts the preliminaryreport, he's calculating the weight logging information,
and he leaves around eight am.So it's been quite a day,
right, So the state police officerwho was called to the scene was next
on the stand, and it wasuncovered during cross examination. His determination of
(15:01):
the no forced entry was a quickwalk through the house. He did not
check every room, He did notcheck all the windows. He did say
that what he saw no windows wereopened, but he did not know if
they were locked or unlocked. Itwould be wise of a detective going into
(15:22):
a home to try to open ifsomeone's dead. But remember they've already ruled
it as a drowning, so they'renot really looking for it. But if
this world as a homicide, youwant to make sure were any windows unlocked?
How could someone get in? You'relooking at points of entry. This
guy did not do it. Imean it was a quick look look upstairs,
down the stairs, no broken windows, no busted indoors. That's enough
(15:45):
yet pretty much it was completely walkedthrough, cursory look around. But another
biggie is they also failed to dustfor prints in the bathroom or anywhere else
in the home. And when askedabout dusting for fingerprints on the tub,
he said, I did not know. It was unclear as to what had
happened to her, whether she'd fallenin the tub, had committed suicide.
(16:08):
So I made the decision that thebest cause of action was to remove the
body. So if you don't know, if you don't know what happened,
you gotta figure it out, desperPrince, Yeah, at least eliminate the
possibility to make sure you know.So the prosecution is back to the tub
and again we emphasize the dry tub, and the prosecution asked what the state
(16:33):
of the tub was, and thestate police officer answered that quote, the
drain was closed. There was nowater in the tub. The drain was
closed, no water in the tub. So looking at the crime scene photo
of the tub, like Jen hassaid, there was a little bit of
blood near the drain, but itwas just a very very little But remember
(16:56):
this injury on her head. It'sa head injury, had injuries bleed.
It's enough to have her hair matted, but there's nothing else. There's only
a little bit in the tub.But she's got this massive gash on the
back of her head and her hairis matted. Where's the rest of it?
(17:18):
Where's blood spatter, blood drippings,blood, blood anything. My theory
completely, my theory. I thinkthe bath mat was used to either one
soak it up, to use itas you know, hold it up,
then hit her on the back ofthe head, so all the blood was
spray on to the mat, notto him. That's why the matt's missing.
(17:42):
And that's my theory. Interesting,Well, another thing they didn't do
though, that might have literally shedsome light on that is using luminol or
anything else. Two fine traces ofblood. Was there blood around the ring
of the tub? Was it onthe floor and it had been cleaned up.
They didn't even bother to do that, which is baffling because again,
(18:04):
when it's not adding up. Butthen what you've got is, let's say,
you know, let's say the nextday they decided, you know,
what maybe we should go back andtest for that, even though they've already
said, you know whatever, Butnow you've got Drew back in there cleaning
the tub again, because now it'stoo late. Now he's back in there,
he'd unstole the garage door opener sohe can get back in there and
(18:26):
do whatever he wants at the crimescene. And we only know about that
one time with the family that hewas in that house. He probably went
to that house several more times withoutanybody ever knowing. So why still the
garage door opener with not having anintent intent to go back in right,
it doesn't make sense. So Iguarantee you he scrubbed that thing topped to
bottom. He already did once whenthe family was there. There's no telling
(18:49):
what he did to the house orto the scene of the crime when nobody
was there. So in the kitchen, another oops that they made was there's
a glass of orange juice was picturedfor evidence, but it was sitting there
on the counter. Nobody dusted thatfor Prince. Now that's probably her glass
of orange juice, probably neither herenor there. But I mean, just
(19:11):
to cover your bases, it justdoes to press they weren't thorough by any
means. Yeah, all right,Patrick Collins, he's a retired Illinois State
police He's going to be next onthe stand. Collins was assigned to investigate
the death to determine accident or homicide. When he got the call to go
to the house, his supervisor hadalready said that a police officer from boling
(19:34):
Brook's wife had been found in abathtub. It appears to be accidental.
So already he knows one, it'sa cops wife, well technically ex wife,
but he thinks CoP's wife. Two, it's an accident. He's going
in already looking through that lens ofit being an accident. It's already implanted
(19:56):
to him. After a walk throughthe home and the bathroom, Collins does
interview Drew. Now Drew's giving himthe story about how they were getting divorced.
But it's not adversarial. They werereally good friends. There's alice reports.
Yeah, but remember Drew's version ofthe police report is that Kathy kept
(20:17):
coming on to him and she wasmad because he was saying no to her.
But would that not still be adversarial, That would still be adversarial.
You can blame it on her,and it's still adversarial. But now he's
acting like, oh no, itwas fine. We just split, you
would think, all right. So, when asked how Drew would benefit from
(20:37):
the death of his ex wife,Drew responded that he and Kathy had joint
custody of the house, which waspaid off and worth about three hundred thousand
dollars, and he would get half. I mean, he was very honest,
be like, hey, half thishouse is mine. Oh she's dead.
I guess I'm the sole beneficiary now, so I guess I'll get the
whole three hundred thousand dollars. Well, then he goes on to say,
(21:02):
well, now I get the wholevalue of the house now, Colins said.
He stated he would not benefit fromany insurance policy because she had changed
the paperwork and left it in atrust for all the kids. Well,
the kids aren't adults yet, soDrew has control over the trust. He
keeps his pension, he keeps hisretirement, no longer pays child's report,
(21:25):
he gets a bonus from the insurancetrust, and he gets the house.
How is he not benefiting financially fromthis? Absolutely? I guys, We're
going to take a break really quick. And we're going to get back to
Collins's testimony on the stand when weget back. All right, guys,
(21:47):
welcome back. So Collins is onthe stand and he talks about how he
decided to interview Stacy too, becauseremember, at this point, Stacy's still
around, So he asked Collins tosit in on the interview because Stacy was
nervous about it, and so hegets to sit next to his young lover
(22:12):
at this point while she is beinginterrogated by police, as if that could
not sway her potentially if she's insome sort of like coercive type situation.
So when Collins asked Stacy questions,Drew would straight up lean over and prompt
her on what to say. Heleaned over at one point and said,
(22:33):
you remember what you cook for breakfastthat morning and started naming, thinking,
yeah, you made the eggs,you made bacon. Remember, Like,
that's complete leading, that's that's notokay, and it's not something that's typically
done. So Stacy's getting overwhelmed,she's upset. She starts to cry during
the interview, so Collins ends it. So back to the trial, back
(22:56):
to witness testimony. Next on thestand is Mary Parks. She and Kathleen
met while they were in nursing schooltogether. Mary was going back to obtain
a Nursing Practitioner nurse degree. Sheand Kathleen were study buddies. They worked
on their labs together, and Kathleenconfided in Mary right before Thanksgiving in two
(23:17):
thousand and three, so it wasat the Junior College while they were studying.
Kathleen was wearing a long sleeve kindof fleece like top. It had
a collar, and Mary unzips hersweater, Kathleen's sweater and sees dark red
marks on either side of Kathleen's neckand one in the middle. And this
(23:37):
is a quote from Mary. Shetold me that the evening before, she
was coming down the stairs and herhusband came in the house and he grabbed
her by the neck and pinned herdown. Kathleen would go on to tell
Mary that Drew choked her while theirkids were upstairs in the home. She
also said that Drew threatened to killher and make it look like an accident.
(24:00):
So remember this law that was passedright before the trial that we talked
about, that hearsay law. Thisdid allow Mary to testify to what Kathleen
had told her that day, andthis was the November before Kathleen ended up
Dad in March. Mary went onto say that Kathleen was kind of intalvertunave
about keeping the house locked, everywindow, every door because again she was
(24:25):
scared. She would walk around thehouse with her phone at all times,
just in case something happened. Kathleenwould also be scared to walk to her
car after class. Mary would walkwith her to her car after school every
single time. On a side note, the judge received at least three letters
from inmates about the case. Now, each letter tries to link the murder
(24:52):
of Kathleen back to the death ofAbraham Lincoln. What so it Yeah,
it just completely random that this judgegetting letters from inmates that says, hey,
there's a conspiracy here, and theletters are entered into evidence, but
he's not going to communicate with them. So I don't know what kind of
(25:12):
tactic this is. So just random. Three inmates randomly send conspiracy letters to
the judge at one time. That'sweird. It is the judge is having
none of it. So next onthe stand is Steve Mancini. People are
lining up at four point thirty inthe morning just to get deceit in the
(25:34):
court to watch this trial in person. And the media is crazy, it's
at its peak. It's all overthe news. And this Steve is the
boyfriend, so everybody wants to hearthis testimony. Step and Kathleen met back
in the early eighties and they keptin touch for a while, but they
(25:56):
reconnected when the divorce was in progressand Drew was living in the couple's basement,
sneaking in that seventeen year old becauseat this point the marriage is over,
She's like, he's dating a minorin my basement. I'm gonna date
this gentleman who is old enough tohave a relationship with me. After the
divorce, Kathleen asked Eve to changethe codes to the garage door openers because
(26:22):
she's like, she knows, sheknows that he has one and that he's
trying to get in. He's sneakingin. And Steve is a key prosecution
witness now through him, the juryheard that Kathleen would take off her jewelry
before she showered or took a bath. He's reiterating she would not wear jewelry
(26:42):
when she bathed. There is noreason for her to be wearing a gold
cross necklace when she was found inthe bathtub. Even if she did slip,
even if it was an accident,there's no reason for her to have
it on. He also confirmed thather bathroom always has two bath mats,
one front of the vanity and theother in front of the tub. They
(27:04):
were both missing when her body wasfound. He confirms that while she was
alive and he was there, thebedroom door did not have drill holes around
the dead bault. He is sayingthat door was in pristine condition. There
were no scratches, there's no hole. The bath mets were there the night
(27:25):
that she dies. All of asudden, there's scratches, holes, and
the mats are missing. This isbombshell evidence at this point. So he
goes on to talk about the datenight that they had together on February twenty
seventh, Now this is just daysbefore they find her, and he goes
through the date that He goes throughthe intimacy that they shared at her home.
(27:48):
He tells the jury she did nothave any bruising or abrasions on her
body, certainly not a big gapinghead wound. So the bruise on her,
but came after the date. Healso confirms that at no time during
that weekend did she fall down tocause the bruises. She was not injured.
(28:08):
There was nothing that would have causedthis. So Steve left the next
morning on February twenty eighth, afterthey had breakfast together. He talked to
Kathleen around nine point thirty that evening, and at exactly midnight, she calls
Steve upset and asked him to comeover. They talked for a bit,
but in the end Steve stayed athis place. The following day was February
(28:32):
twenty ninth. That was a leapyear, and he did not speak to
Kathleen that day. He was ridinghis motorcycle, had lunch with his dad,
and his home was broken into whilehe was at work on Monday.
So, after dealing with the aftermathof the break in, he meets up
with some friends at the Lunar BrewingCompany for a few hours, and it's
(28:52):
there where he gets a call fromMary, the next door neighbor, saying
have you seen Kathleen? So hecalls Kathleen and sell and the home several
times. He's unable to get intouch with her. He calls Mary when
he goes back home, and Marysays, Steve, I hate to tell
you this, but Kathleen was founddead. Drew was there and Steve walked
(29:14):
in. So when Steve finally makesit to the house, Drew's there,
he says, quote first, Isaid, Drew, I sure, hope
you didn't have anything to do withthis, and he said that he did
not, and there was a littlebit of small talk, and then Steve
says, boy, this shirt workedout well for you, and Drew responded
with she would have lost anyway,Harry Dad. Yeah, all right.
(29:41):
So this is huge bombshell testimony.This confirms a lot of stuff about the
jewelry, the bath mets. Solet's move on to the toxicologist, Christopher
Long. He had been working withSaint Louis University School of Medicine. Not
a medical doctor, but he hastwo masters and a PhD kind of doctor.
He testifies that they tested for awide range of drugs, even alcohol
(30:06):
from the samples they received from Kathleen'sliver. Kathleen had zero traces of anything
and everything. She was clean asa whistle the night she died, so
she couldn't have been drunk and felldown and hurt herself and killed herself.
That is completely rolled out. Theytested another sample of when she was exhumed
(30:27):
again. They determined zero drugs,absolutely clean, nothing in her body.
Doctor Bloom testifies that she's in verygood physical shape when she had died.
She did have a three inch byone inch scratch. Her aarrooys and throat
were completely free from injury, sothis kind of rules out that she was
(30:49):
strangled. Also, there's no damageto her lungs, but she did have
two thousand grams of water. Thisdoes confirm that she had not eaten or
drinking anything right before death. Becausethey're going over the autopsy here and what
they found, and there are somerumors out there that Kathleen may have died
due to an appendix rupture or abrain aneurysm. They rule this out given
(31:14):
the results of the autopsy. Shedid have a minimum amount of brain swelling,
which is common with drownings, probablytrauma common correct with a massive laceration
to the back of your head.And so doctor Blum also goes into the
lack of bruising that would have happenedif she felt which is like Jen said
in the first episode, and thisis the quote from him. The body
(31:40):
during fall will instinctively reflexively extend thearms in an attempt to re establish balance
and control. It's something that youcan't help. I would characterize it as
when you fall, you sprawl,you sprawl out, and an attempt to
stop yourself. And this is notsomething that the doctor who did the original
autopsy accounted for. No bruising onthe back of the arms, nothing like
(32:02):
that. Since that cut was tothe back of her head, the assumption
was that she fell backwards. Atthe end of the report, which is
super long and I read, soyou don't have to, he says.
This is about her death. Thecuts and bruises did not come from a
fall. They were in positions thatwould make it impossible. Her death officially
(32:25):
is drowning, not the laceration,not the bruises. It's official there was
water in her lungs, all right. So let's get to Scott Rosetto.
He's Stacy's current missing wife's friend.They had met when Stacy dated Scott's twin
(32:45):
brother. The only dated a fewmonths and his brother enlistened to the military
two days before September eleventh, Soneeds to say they got him to boot
camp super quick ended that relationship.Stacy didn't wait around. She called Scott
and told him she was married.And so what Scott is going to testify
too, is that just days beforeStacy went missing, she told him,
(33:13):
Look, my husband Drew killed Kathleenand I am going to leave Drew.
But Scott got the dates and places, you know, Denny's versus an apartment
mixed up. And the judge says, you know what, you're just not
consistent with what you're trying to say. I'm going to bar you from testifying.
So big, big, big blowto the prosecution here. So now
(33:38):
in the trial, there's been severalcalls from mistrial by the defense, and
the prosecution has gotten their hands lappeda few times for overstepping in their questioning.
Judge's kind of losing patience with them. They're just kind of being petty.
So over the course of the nextfew witnesses, the prosecution brought in
(33:58):
another medical doctor to talk about thisbig cut to the skull, and the
doctor testified that the cut was madeby blunt force trauma and could not have
been associated with a fall in thetub, but the hit would have made
her black out. I have atheory about the water. My theory is
(34:22):
she got hit in the back ofthe head. You know, the mats
cleaned it up. There's so there'sno spotter it got cleaned up. Whether
that it got to be that night, maybe a few nights afterwards, given
someone's access to the house. Butwhile she was passed out, he put
her face in a bowl of water. So actually I I saw somewhere that
(34:45):
there is a theory that she wasbeing drowned basically elsewhere the sink, the
toilet, whatever it may be.He was pressing her down, which left
the bruises on her chest. Itwasn't working, so to speak, so
(35:06):
we hit her over the head withsomething and then put her in the bathtub
to play it off, which wouldalso explain how she did have the water
in her lungs and the thing onher head and the bruising on her chest.
So that's I mean, it's possible. So also we've talked about,
you know, the pictures of thetub. There was not blood anywhere outside
of what was next to the drain. Right now, this doctor says,
(35:29):
that kind of force and that cutwould have bled everywhere, and this doctor
goes on to say that the scratchfound on Kathleen would have had to come
from somewhere outside the tub, givenhow smooth the tub and its edges are.
Now we've got an explosive witness,and this is Jeffrey Patcher. And
(35:50):
Jeffrey was working as a tech fora cable company in two thousand and three
and he met Drew Peterson. Soback when Jeffrey was eighteen, he had
a relationship with a fifteen year oldgirl. He pled guilty to a misdemeanor.
He was ordered to stay away fromher. He did not, so
he got slapped with a felony andhad to register as a sex offender for
(36:12):
ten years. Well, now enterDrew into the picture. He asked Drew
to run his background and check itbecause he was having a hard time getting
a job and the offender status shouldhave been off of there. Well,
Drew told him what to do andhow to take care of it, and
Jeffrey's like cool, thanks man,super nice. But then Drew told Jeffrey
(36:35):
that he had an ex wife causinghim problems and that Drew would give Jeffrey
twenty five thousand dollars to take careof it. Or that if Jeffrey found
someone else to do it, hecould keep the balance of what the other
guy charged. So he's using himto recruit basically. And this was around
November of two thousand and three.And now you know, the guy's like,
(36:55):
oh, well, why do youwant to kill her? What's the
problem Andrew, who gives the storythat his ex wife had a drug problem,
she worked at Red Lobster. Justlet me know when it's done.
It's causing a whole bunch of issues. And he said, call me and
give me this key phrase they hadjust to let him know, like a
keyword, a code word, tolet him know that the job is done.
(37:16):
Drew wanted to know when he coulddo it, to make sure that
he had a rock solid alibi.And he was like, look, I'll
go book a vacation, I'll goout of the country something so that there's
no question as to my involvement,and I'll cause a fight. I'll cause
a scene while I'm there. Thatway everyone knows I wasn't here. Well,
Jeffrey did not contact the police aboutthis, but Drew called him in
(37:40):
July two thousand and four and saidthat he did not need that quote unquote
favor anymore. Jeffrey came forward afterseeing the Drew Peterson case on the Nancy
Gray Show, and that's when hetold this information and then they brought him
in for the trial. So beforeKathleen's death, and while Drew is married
(38:00):
to Stacy, Stacy and Drew wentto their pastor for marriage counseling. They
had not been married long at all, so they call the pastor to testify.
So here's kind of a summary ofwhat he testified to. On August
thirtieth, two thousand and seven,he gets a call from Stacy asking the
pastor to meet her at Starbucks inBowling Brook the next morning, about a
(38:23):
thirty in the morning. He getsthere and Stacy's looking super nervous. The
conversation lasted about two hours. Sheconfesses inside of Starbucks that one night,
she and Drew went to bed atthe same time they were both getting to
go to sleep. She woke upin the middle of the night and noticed
Drew was not in the bed withher. She gets up, looks around
(38:46):
her room, looks around the entirehouse. She didn't find him in the
house. He was gone. Sheattempted to call him, but she couldn't
get him on the phone. Itwas early in the morning hours. She
woke up and searched the house again. This time she sees him standing near
(39:06):
the washer and dryer. He's dressedin all black, carrying a bag.
She said that he removed his clothingit and then took the contents out of
the bag and put him all inthe washing machine. When she kind of
peeked in the washing machine, shesaid that she saw women's clothes that's not
hers. And when they talked aboutit, he said that the police will
(39:28):
be coming soon to interview her.He told her what to say to the
police. Drew told her to lieon Drew's behalf to the police because remember
she provided the alibi for that night. So and then now she's the missing
one. Let's not forget that.We keep talking about Stacy, and you
(39:50):
know he was with this seventeen yearold girl. She is now the missing
one. So let's go to thesentencing face. So September sixth of twenty
twelve, Ruy Peterson was found guiltyhe first degree murder after just two days
of deliberation, and he was sentencedto thirty eight years. He was assigned
to the Minor Correctional Center in Chester, Illinois, and the first time he
(40:13):
will be up for parole is whenhe is ninety three years old. So
he was moved to a federal institution, Tara HOAt within a month of being
there. So he gets to TaHalt and why he's there, he got
attacked by another prisoner And when theyasked the prisoner why he attacked Drew,
he just said he wanted Drew stuffto sell it on eBay to true crime
(40:37):
fans, because Drew was just thatpopular of a person. But it's not
long until Drew gets in trouble again. So October thirteenth, this time a
prisoner comes forward and says, Drewwants me to hire him a hit man.
The target was the prosecutor of hismurder, traw this Glasgow. So
Drew's holding a little bit of agrudge. He's thinking that class co guy
(41:00):
needs to be taken care of ifyou will. I mean, he's already
tried to hire a cable technician tokill his stepbrother and his stepbrother and so
we have a history here. Andbefore you all start yelling, jail house
informant snitch thinking this is all madeup it's not. And the reason why
(41:22):
we know it's not is because theinformant talked to the guards in the warden
and got to wear a wire andit got it all recorded. So Peterson
said, absolutely, he was surethat its now turning back. When this
informant was trying to egg them,Hey do you want to do this?
Do you want to do this?And Drew was like, yes, do
(41:43):
it and if you and if yousucceed, I'm gonna sneak in some booze
and we're going to celebrate that night. So hitman for hire smuggling contraband into
a federal prison because if Glasgow isdead, he claims that no one else
will have the guts to challenge hisappeal. He's thinking, he is this
(42:07):
big, scary you know, forcedto be reckoned with, and he's so
scary, nobody's gonna take him on. Only Glaska was, and that's why
he wants to have him taken careof. Because he knew if he got
out of prison, they would chargePeterson with Stacy's death. So Glasgow had
(42:27):
already told him, Look, evenif you get out, we're gonna charge
you with Stacy. So you're gonnago right, back in. So if
he takes care of Glasgow, hetakes care of that secondary murder charge just
waiting for him. So side notehere, Drew's oldest son took in all
of Drew's kids and raised them likehis own when Drew was convicted. But
(42:50):
there's one big thing still lingering outthere that we have not addressed yet,
and that is where the heck isStacy, and we don't know. Unfortunately,
her sister is passionate about her sisterbeing in a local canal, which
was about twenty seven miles away inthe I and M Canal, but there
(43:10):
were not enough funds raised to actuallysend the party out there to look.
And her sister has devoted basically herentire adult life to trying to find Stacy.
She tried, you know, varioussites and third parties to try to
raise funds for you know, diveand rescue, but you know, there
(43:34):
wasn't enough. During the first threedays of Stacy's disappearance, when the police
searched the canal, they found whatlooked like to others as a body,
but when they went back to thesite with the proper tools, they couldn't
find it again, and the statepolice refused to go out to the canal
again and do any more searches,but in a court TV interview, her
(43:57):
sister believes there is a body andshe's like, I don't know if it's
Stacy's, but it's somebody's and weneed to find it. There is a
dive team from Alaska that is broughtin. Technology is getting better and better,
and they were able to take apicture of what they think are remains.
(44:17):
Now she reached out to the statepolice and again they're like, look,
we're not going to do it.We're not going to come out there
and search this canal because when theylook at this picture, they see a
rock covered in silt, some ofits comfort and silk. When I look
at the pictures, it really doeslook like a skull. I mean you
(44:40):
can really tell the two eye indentationsand the jaw and if the skull is
a part of her sister remains,she all she wants to do is give
it a proper burial. That's allshe wants to do. But she's very
adamant, going, hey, evenif this is not my sister, this
this body deserves to be identified andrespected. Let's go back to Drew for
(45:06):
a second, because it still goes. This is after sentencing, This is
after the trial. Drew now claimsthat his lawyer was ineffective counsel. This
is the same lawyer that set upthe dating game, or tried to at
least until the station manager shut itdown. I can kind of see this
(45:27):
affected, you know, bad counsel. And also if you look at some
of those interviews his lawyers gave,you would kind of sayh yeah, but
what they do outside the court versuswhat they do in the court completely different
matter. He's trying his hardest,he's trying to get out of jail.
Greenberg is leading the charge, sayingthat the divorce attorney should never have been
(45:52):
called because of the hearsay right,it should never have been admitted even if
that law had been passed. Drew'sappeal is denied, and he decided to
devise a revenge plot because he's alreadydone it a couple of times before.
Investigators used eavesdropping devices and insider informationagain again and slammed him for it.
(46:17):
So he can't win for losing again, he is going to be sitting in
jail because they tacked on that firsthit. They attacked on more years,
so he has never getting out ofjail ever again. And it also ended
up in an actual solicitation of murderfor higher charge, so he is actually
(46:40):
convicted of premeditated murder of Kathleen Savioand the solicitation of murder for hire that
he caught Willy was behind bars.And it's really really sad that Stacy has
never been found because I cannot help, but wonder, I mean, my
god, she was seventeen years oldand he was old, he was verging,
(47:02):
he was in his forties, lateforties. Maybe they did that.
I mean, it just sounds likegrimming. Every time he was with someone,
they were younger and younger, andwhen he couldn't manipulate them anymore,
he went for someone even younger.And you know, I just can't help,
but wonder if if that was partof it. I'm sure it was.
(47:22):
I'm sure it was. And it'sabsolutely horrible because she was trying to
get out of the situation. It'svery clear that that is true. And
both of them were very vocal.Yeah, both of them were very vocal.
They told all their friends and familiesand anyone who can hear them,
he's going to kill me. Andit's going to be an accident. Yeah,
that was not something he told oneperson. He told several of them
(47:45):
that, and that's disgusting, it'sterrifying. Thank goodness, the last one
got out because of her dad.That would have been her fifth wife.
I mean, my goodness, andyou the only one who he was not
physical to was the first one,and she said even still he was pretty
(48:06):
terrible. I do wish they wouldfind her though, because it's been a
really long time and it's it's wonderfulthat they were able to go back and
reopen Kathleen's case and give it theclassification and the justice that it deserved.
But I wish that that could happenfor Stacy too. And I remember,
(48:27):
I mean, this case was hugeat the time, and it was the
Stacy Peterson case, Stacy Peterson case. But then unfortunately, she still got
lost. You know, she definitelygot her voice got lost during the trial
in the aftermath, and thank goodnessfor her sister being so vocal about it,
and hopefully you can still google her. She's still very active in raising
(48:52):
funds, trying to get a rescuedive and rescue teams out there. And
because she thinks the best bet isthis connection. I not at least check
that thing. Even if it's we'renot sure it might be a rocket,
why not just double check. Well, this police department hasn't been known to
be really great. Hopefully they'll getsome new administration in, but I think
(49:17):
it's going to take pressure from thepublic for it to blow up again for
them to be go, okay,now we'll do it. And in my
baby, they just don't have thefunds to do it. Yeah, which
is unfortunate. But that wraps upthe second case in the Peterson series.
Full disclosure, we're not entirely surewhat's next. We haven't figured that one
(49:38):
out the next one. So giveus a few weeks to prep figure out
research and all that, and we'llbe back with another series like this.
I have a vacation coming up andthen it's back to school time. But
I'm hoping we'll have something by theend of summer, hopefully, So just
bear with us. I would sayAugust, because I've I've got one that
(50:00):
I'm working on that I keep hangingup. Yeah, yeah, I have
one that I'm working on. Sowe do have one. What am I
talking about? Yeah, we haveone that I'm working on, and you
found one too today. Yeah,I don't know if that fits into this
series. I really want to coverit, but I don't know if it
fits into this series. How doyou do it? Ye? Like it
anyway? That's not I don't know. I'll make the case for it.
(50:23):
But yeah. So all that tosay, thanks for hanging with us.
We will be back in a fewweeks here with another round for you guys.
So in the meantime, find uson Facebook, Instagram, Patreon,
all that fun stuff. And yeah, you know what they said to Felicia,
Bye bye,
Hey, everyone, it's Jen andthis is Lindsay. Welcome back to Corpus
Delicti the podcast and also episode three, maybe the last episode of Drew Peterson.
Yeah, most likely, we thinkso. If not, we're gonna
have to find another day this weekto record because we're not prepared for that.
So again, little quick recap ofwhere we left off. We were
(00:46):
in the trial. We were talkingto Tom, the neighbor who was married
to Mary. They were with thegroup who found Kathleen in the bathtub.
Drew had called the locksmith. Theywent in house together and they asked Mary
and now Tom about what they saw, and they were talking at the end
(01:07):
there about the dead bolt that Tomhad installed on Kathleen's bedroom door that when
on the night that Kathleen was founddeceased, looked like it had been picked
up, broken, busted hole,all that. So the defense questions Tom
about it and they're like, hey, did you do that when you were
(01:30):
installing it? What condition was itin when you left it? And he
says that he did not make thosescratches and indentations and that the door was
completely solid intact when he installed it. So the defense, as Jen mentioned
in the last episode, is gonnaask for another mistrial after Tom? Why
Tom? What did Tom do?Well? Tom had mentioned that he found
(01:53):
a bullet in his driveway that hethought had been placed there to scare him
intimidate him from chaining the locks onthe front door of the house. Now
there's no proof that it was putthere by Drew, but the jury heard
this because he said it, andthe defense claimed it shows our client and
a bad light. You had noproblem dragging the victim through the mud and
(02:16):
painting her in a bad light.You don't get to clean a mistrial for
that. Well, Greenberg, thedefense said, on behalf of mister Peterson,
we are asking for a mistrial withjeopardy attached. It was mentioned at
the prior hearsay hearing. There's noway of showing that mister Peterson did this.
(02:38):
The only reasonable sanction is for youto find a mistrial with prejudice,
and that's what we're asking for.Well, the judge said, you know
what, Nope, dismisses for therest of the day, and came back
later the next morning and dismisses twomotions for a mistrial. They filed several
(03:01):
motions of mistrass so here we go. Day three, we hear from the
paramedic that came to the house thenight Kathleen was found. His name is
Louis Oleskkevich. Lewis was a firefighterin the town of bowling Brook and he
(03:21):
was the first one on the scenewhen he received the call for a quote,
unresponsive female around ten twenty five pm. Lewis says, I answered the
bathroom. I found a female downin the bathtub. She had no pulse.
She appeared to have been deceased.I attached her to our electro cardiogram.
(03:43):
There is no electrical activity in theheart at the time. It prints
out a piece of paper with allthe electrical activity on it in which we
attached our report and it then issubmitted to the hospital. I didn't know
that, I'm the paramids could dothat. Good to know. Well.
The prosecut as did you go backout to the ambalance at any point that
(04:03):
night, and Louis said, yeah, We call the medical control physician,
let him know what we saw andhe will make the decision of whether or
not we work with the patient orwhether we pronounce them. And we don't
do any life saving action at thetime. So the paramedic calls this physician
and says, hey, this iswhat we found. This is what the
(04:25):
report says. There's no electrical activityin the heart. The guy goes,
okay, you could pronounce it,and so they pronounced her deceased at eleven
five pm. Now Lewis would tellthe jury that Kathleen is cold, she's
waxy, she's dried to the touch, but her hair is matted and damp.
(04:46):
So how is our hair damp?The matted from all the blood.
That's the blood, but damp isdifferent than the blood. So then there
is a lot of discussion about abluetowel because there is one picture with it
hanging up in the bathroom. Butremember Mary and Tom did not see a
(05:08):
towel. Lewis claims he did notsee it either. He mentioned to the
state police that he thought that itwas odd that a towel or bath mat
or nothing was there. None ofit was there. So next on the
stand is the locksmith who came tounlock the door. And the reason they
(05:29):
are bringing this up is that therewas a back and forth between Drew and
the locksmith that was very interesting.So Drew is used to calling this locksmith
Atkins for wellness checks throughout his career. He knew his work, and when
the locksmith came to the house,he went to the front door. This
is the door he usually starts with. The locksmith says, quote, I
(05:50):
went to the doorknob. The doorknobwas locked. It was the front door.
There were two locks, the deadbolt and the doorknob. I'll always
go to the front door because that'susually the one that's used the most.
It's a little bit easier. Ialways start on the locked ones because you'd
hate to unlock something and find thatit was already unlocked. He goes on
(06:12):
to say, quote, the firstthing I noticed was the knob or lock
was upside down. And then aftera few minutes, I went to the
dead bolt. After I picked thelock, there was absolutely no resistance when
I turned it, and I said, wow, this is unlocked. He
then explains how he was able totell that the deadlock was clearly unlocked,
(06:32):
and he went, wow, thisis great. One less locked to worry
about. So the prosecution asked himwhere was Drew Peterson when all this is
happening, and the locksmans says thatPeterson's right behind him and when they heard
Mary scream, Drew looked at himin the eye and said, I've got
to go and ran upstairs. Now, it's interesting that he didn't go into
(06:56):
the house with the neighbors. Hewas just kind of hanging out with the
locks, mean downstairs, just kindof waiting. So they go into a
lot about how someone needs training andcertifications to own or buy a lock picking
kit, and the long short ofit is it takes a lot of time
in practice, and the defense harpson this and it goes on and on
(07:17):
and on forever. Why what istheir tactic here? Well, they're trying
to prove that Drew did not knowhow to pick locks. Okay, but
they had found a lock picking kitin Drew's home when he was arrested in
two thousand and nine, so didhe. But at the end of the
(07:39):
day, it didn't matter because hehad the garage door opener unless she locked
the door from the garage to thehouse like that door that separates the interier
of the garage, which she problystarted doing once she found out he was
getting it. She probably did.The trial continues on August third, when
the prosecution cost to stand Kathleen's oldersister, Anna Duman. Anna testifies that
(08:05):
just six weeks prior to Kathleen's death, she had told her older sister,
So Kathleen had told Anna that Drewhad told Kathleen he was going to kill
her. She was not going tomake it to the divorce settlement. Kathleen
was not going to get his pensionor the kids. This is why she's
(08:26):
upset. This is why she madeher sister promise over and over again that
her sister would take care of theboys. During that conversation, Kathleen had
given Anna a suitcase. But suitcasecontained all of her important papers to keep
safe. She's afraid to keep themin the house. She had her will
in the suitcase. Remember his handwrittenwill that he tried to pass out.
(08:52):
No, no, no, Itwas in the suitcase at her sister's house.
The day that Kathleen was discovered,Drew had called Kathleen's family to let
them know of the accidental drowning.The following day, the family went over
to the home to locate Kathleen's will, if there's other copies, other insurance
information. They brought the suitcase justto with them and they when they get
(09:16):
there Drew shows up and bangs onthe door until he is let in the
house. He is not wanting themin the house unless he is there.
It gets weird. It's this iswhere it starts to get really weird.
Ana describes him going through the housefrantic. He's grabbing things from all over
the house, claiming that his kidsneeded No he did grab the kid's clothes,
(09:39):
but he spends a lot of timelooking through her bedroom, looking around
the room, and he then thefamily goes in there and says, hey,
you don't live here, what areyou doing? And he is just
frantically going room to room to roomto room. He then sees ca Lean's
(10:00):
purse. He goes in it,grabs her wallet and takes all the money
out of it and says, thisbelongs to the boys. Okay, and
it gets stranger. Drew was founda little bit later during his frantic search.
He's in the bathroom where they foundKathleen. He's scrubbing it clean.
(10:22):
He's cleaning the bathtub, and hisreasoning is he didn't want the boys to
see the blood. There's a pictureof the bathtub when they found Kathleen,
and there is a little bit ofblood there's not a blood ring like a
soap scum ring. So if shehad died, if the tub had been
(10:45):
full or had water in it,you would kind of see that residue that
would have been left behind. Butit was clean. There was no residue
in there, but he was stillin there cleaning it, which is really
odd and it's really kind of telling. So when and her family were getting
ready to leave and goes through thegarage, she then says that Drew grabbed
(11:07):
the garage door opener off of hercar, so she had just put it
on top of her car. Hegrabs it off her car and she couldn't
really do anything because she had alot of stuff in her hands. She
couldn't really give it back. Andhe said, standing in front of her
car, he was going to takethe opener, and she said, hey,
give it back, and he waslike, nope, I am not.
(11:31):
And she never got it back.So family had a copy of the
garage opener. He just flats outsteals it from her and just refuses to
give it back. So the prosecutionnow shifts their focus a little bit to
Kathleen and whether or not she hadany skin sensitivities, which is interesting,
(11:52):
but work with us here and said, yes she did, and this is
a quote. She said she wasvery sensitive to cheap jewelry, costume jewelry.
If it wasn't real gold, shewould get a rash. So then
she goes on to talk about thatKathleen loved to take her bath and when
I was with her at the housea few times, she would always take
(12:16):
her jewelry off before she got inthe bath because you don't want to ruin
it, you don't want to tarnishit. And she always took her jewelry
off before she got in the bath. Well, the reason that they're going
for this is because when Kathleen wasfound there was a gold necklace around her
neck, So why would she stillhave that on if she was bathing.
(12:39):
Now we're going to talk about whenthey exhumed Kathleen's body. It was kicked
off when Anne went on a FoxTV show, Greta Van Sustern. It
was on that show that the secondautopsy was brought up. Fox said,
hey, we'll give you fifty thousanddollars and we'll get doctor Bedeen, who
(13:01):
is a renowned pathologist for the wholething. But before we get there,
let's talk about the first optopsy thatwas done by Wills County's corodner, Michael
Vanover. Now, when Michael arrivesat Kathleen's home on March first, after
she has found he observed Kathleen inthe tub. He notices an abrasion,
which is a bruise on her leftside of her butt. Well, this
(13:24):
appears to be the only injury,so that's the only one that he really
documented, and she didn't have anyblunt force trauma, stabbings or gunshots.
Totally ignored the head wound, totally, the scratches, it was completely absent
from the autopsy report. So obviouslythat's one mess up. And we alluded
(13:48):
to in the earlier episodes how theyreally rushed to the decision. It's another
cop here. We got to takecare of her own type thing. So
instead of lying Kathleen on a sheetbefore putting her her body into the body
bag, he actually asks a statetrooper to bag her hands with you know,
covering her hands, and together theyplace her directly into the body bag,
(14:13):
so she's not covered by a sheet. So they kind of put bags
over her hands and picked her upwith her hands and put her in there.
So finally, so if that bodybag was not sterile, exact time
it was used, all of thatevidence, absolutely, all potential evidence is
out the window. So finally Kathleenwas placed into a transport car. She
(14:35):
was taken to the morgue at threein the morning, and Vanover follows to
the morgue. He conducts the preliminaryreport, he's calculating the weight logging information,
and he leaves around eight am.So it's been quite a day,
right, So the state police officerwho was called to the scene was next
on the stand, and it wasuncovered during cross examination. His determination of
(15:01):
the no forced entry was a quickwalk through the house. He did not
check every room, He did notcheck all the windows. He did say
that what he saw no windows wereopened, but he did not know if
they were locked or unlocked. Itwould be wise of a detective going into
(15:22):
a home to try to open ifsomeone's dead. But remember they've already ruled
it as a drowning, so they'renot really looking for it. But if
this world as a homicide, youwant to make sure were any windows unlocked?
How could someone get in? You'relooking at points of entry. This
guy did not do it. Imean it was a quick look look upstairs,
down the stairs, no broken windows, no busted indoors. That's enough
(15:45):
yet pretty much it was completely walkedthrough, cursory look around. But another
biggie is they also failed to dustfor prints in the bathroom or anywhere else
in the home. And when askedabout dusting for fingerprints on the tub,
he said, I did not know. It was unclear as to what had
happened to her, whether she'd fallenin the tub, had committed suicide.
(16:08):
So I made the decision that thebest cause of action was to remove the
body. So if you don't know, if you don't know what happened,
you gotta figure it out, desperPrince, Yeah, at least eliminate the
possibility to make sure you know.So the prosecution is back to the tub
and again we emphasize the dry tub, and the prosecution asked what the state
(16:33):
of the tub was, and thestate police officer answered that quote, the
drain was closed. There was nowater in the tub. The drain was
closed, no water in the tub. So looking at the crime scene photo
of the tub, like Jen hassaid, there was a little bit of
blood near the drain, but itwas just a very very little But remember
(16:56):
this injury on her head. It'sa head injury, had injuries bleed.
It's enough to have her hair matted, but there's nothing else. There's only
a little bit in the tub.But she's got this massive gash on the
back of her head and her hairis matted. Where's the rest of it?
(17:18):
Where's blood spatter, blood drippings,blood, blood anything. My theory
completely, my theory. I thinkthe bath mat was used to either one
soak it up, to use itas you know, hold it up,
then hit her on the back ofthe head, so all the blood was
spray on to the mat, notto him. That's why the matt's missing.
(17:42):
And that's my theory. Interesting,Well, another thing they didn't do
though, that might have literally shedsome light on that is using luminol or
anything else. Two fine traces ofblood. Was there blood around the ring
of the tub? Was it onthe floor and it had been cleaned up.
They didn't even bother to do that, which is baffling because again,
(18:04):
when it's not adding up. Butthen what you've got is, let's say,
you know, let's say the nextday they decided, you know,
what maybe we should go back andtest for that, even though they've already
said, you know whatever, Butnow you've got Drew back in there cleaning
the tub again, because now it'stoo late. Now he's back in there,
he'd unstole the garage door opener sohe can get back in there and
(18:26):
do whatever he wants at the crimescene. And we only know about that
one time with the family that hewas in that house. He probably went
to that house several more times withoutanybody ever knowing. So why still the
garage door opener with not having anintent intent to go back in right,
it doesn't make sense. So Iguarantee you he scrubbed that thing topped to
bottom. He already did once whenthe family was there. There's no telling
(18:49):
what he did to the house orto the scene of the crime when nobody
was there. So in the kitchen, another oops that they made was there's
a glass of orange juice was picturedfor evidence, but it was sitting there
on the counter. Nobody dusted thatfor Prince. Now that's probably her glass
of orange juice, probably neither herenor there. But I mean, just
(19:11):
to cover your bases, it justdoes to press they weren't thorough by any
means. Yeah, all right,Patrick Collins, he's a retired Illinois State
police He's going to be next onthe stand. Collins was assigned to investigate
the death to determine accident or homicide. When he got the call to go
to the house, his supervisor hadalready said that a police officer from boling
(19:34):
Brook's wife had been found in abathtub. It appears to be accidental.
So already he knows one, it'sa cops wife, well technically ex wife,
but he thinks CoP's wife. Two, it's an accident. He's going
in already looking through that lens ofit being an accident. It's already implanted
(19:56):
to him. After a walk throughthe home and the bathroom, Collins does
interview Drew. Now Drew's giving himthe story about how they were getting divorced.
But it's not adversarial. They werereally good friends. There's alice reports.
Yeah, but remember Drew's version ofthe police report is that Kathy kept
(20:17):
coming on to him and she wasmad because he was saying no to her.
But would that not still be adversarial, That would still be adversarial.
You can blame it on her,and it's still adversarial. But now he's
acting like, oh no, itwas fine. We just split, you
would think, all right. So, when asked how Drew would benefit from
(20:37):
the death of his ex wife,Drew responded that he and Kathy had joint
custody of the house, which waspaid off and worth about three hundred thousand
dollars, and he would get half. I mean, he was very honest,
be like, hey, half thishouse is mine. Oh she's dead.
I guess I'm the sole beneficiary now, so I guess I'll get the
whole three hundred thousand dollars. Well, then he goes on to say,
(21:02):
well, now I get the wholevalue of the house now, Colins said.
He stated he would not benefit fromany insurance policy because she had changed
the paperwork and left it in atrust for all the kids. Well,
the kids aren't adults yet, soDrew has control over the trust. He
keeps his pension, he keeps hisretirement, no longer pays child's report,
(21:25):
he gets a bonus from the insurancetrust, and he gets the house.
How is he not benefiting financially fromthis? Absolutely? I guys, We're
going to take a break really quick. And we're going to get back to
Collins's testimony on the stand when weget back. All right, guys,
(21:47):
welcome back. So Collins is onthe stand and he talks about how he
decided to interview Stacy too, becauseremember, at this point, Stacy's still
around, So he asked Collins tosit in on the interview because Stacy was
nervous about it, and so hegets to sit next to his young lover
(22:12):
at this point while she is beinginterrogated by police, as if that could
not sway her potentially if she's insome sort of like coercive type situation.
So when Collins asked Stacy questions,Drew would straight up lean over and prompt
her on what to say. Heleaned over at one point and said,
(22:33):
you remember what you cook for breakfastthat morning and started naming, thinking,
yeah, you made the eggs,you made bacon. Remember, Like,
that's complete leading, that's that's notokay, and it's not something that's typically
done. So Stacy's getting overwhelmed,she's upset. She starts to cry during
the interview, so Collins ends it. So back to the trial, back
(22:56):
to witness testimony. Next on thestand is Mary Parks. She and Kathleen
met while they were in nursing schooltogether. Mary was going back to obtain
a Nursing Practitioner nurse degree. Sheand Kathleen were study buddies. They worked
on their labs together, and Kathleenconfided in Mary right before Thanksgiving in two
(23:17):
thousand and three, so it wasat the Junior College while they were studying.
Kathleen was wearing a long sleeve kindof fleece like top. It had
a collar, and Mary unzips hersweater, Kathleen's sweater and sees dark red
marks on either side of Kathleen's neckand one in the middle. And this
(23:37):
is a quote from Mary. Shetold me that the evening before, she
was coming down the stairs and herhusband came in the house and he grabbed
her by the neck and pinned herdown. Kathleen would go on to tell
Mary that Drew choked her while theirkids were upstairs in the home. She
also said that Drew threatened to killher and make it look like an accident.
(24:00):
So remember this law that was passedright before the trial that we talked
about, that hearsay law. Thisdid allow Mary to testify to what Kathleen
had told her that day, andthis was the November before Kathleen ended up
Dad in March. Mary went onto say that Kathleen was kind of intalvertunave
about keeping the house locked, everywindow, every door because again she was
(24:25):
scared. She would walk around thehouse with her phone at all times,
just in case something happened. Kathleenwould also be scared to walk to her
car after class. Mary would walkwith her to her car after school every
single time. On a side note, the judge received at least three letters
from inmates about the case. Now, each letter tries to link the murder
(24:52):
of Kathleen back to the death ofAbraham Lincoln. What so it Yeah,
it just completely random that this judgegetting letters from inmates that says, hey,
there's a conspiracy here, and theletters are entered into evidence, but
he's not going to communicate with them. So I don't know what kind of
(25:12):
tactic this is. So just random. Three inmates randomly send conspiracy letters to
the judge at one time. That'sweird. It is the judge is having
none of it. So next onthe stand is Steve Mancini. People are
lining up at four point thirty inthe morning just to get deceit in the
(25:34):
court to watch this trial in person. And the media is crazy, it's
at its peak. It's all overthe news. And this Steve is the
boyfriend, so everybody wants to hearthis testimony. Step and Kathleen met back
in the early eighties and they keptin touch for a while, but they
(25:56):
reconnected when the divorce was in progressand Drew was living in the couple's basement,
sneaking in that seventeen year old becauseat this point the marriage is over,
She's like, he's dating a minorin my basement. I'm gonna date
this gentleman who is old enough tohave a relationship with me. After the
divorce, Kathleen asked Eve to changethe codes to the garage door openers because
(26:22):
she's like, she knows, sheknows that he has one and that he's
trying to get in. He's sneakingin. And Steve is a key prosecution
witness now through him, the juryheard that Kathleen would take off her jewelry
before she showered or took a bath. He's reiterating she would not wear jewelry
(26:42):
when she bathed. There is noreason for her to be wearing a gold
cross necklace when she was found inthe bathtub. Even if she did slip,
even if it was an accident,there's no reason for her to have
it on. He also confirmed thather bathroom always has two bath mats,
one front of the vanity and theother in front of the tub. They
(27:04):
were both missing when her body wasfound. He confirms that while she was
alive and he was there, thebedroom door did not have drill holes around
the dead bault. He is sayingthat door was in pristine condition. There
were no scratches, there's no hole. The bath mets were there the night
(27:25):
that she dies. All of asudden, there's scratches, holes, and
the mats are missing. This isbombshell evidence at this point. So he
goes on to talk about the datenight that they had together on February twenty
seventh, Now this is just daysbefore they find her, and he goes
through the date that He goes throughthe intimacy that they shared at her home.
(27:48):
He tells the jury she did nothave any bruising or abrasions on her
body, certainly not a big gapinghead wound. So the bruise on her,
but came after the date. Healso confirms that at no time during
that weekend did she fall down tocause the bruises. She was not injured.
(28:08):
There was nothing that would have causedthis. So Steve left the next
morning on February twenty eighth, afterthey had breakfast together. He talked to
Kathleen around nine point thirty that evening, and at exactly midnight, she calls
Steve upset and asked him to comeover. They talked for a bit,
but in the end Steve stayed athis place. The following day was February
(28:32):
twenty ninth. That was a leapyear, and he did not speak to
Kathleen that day. He was ridinghis motorcycle, had lunch with his dad,
and his home was broken into whilehe was at work on Monday.
So, after dealing with the aftermathof the break in, he meets up
with some friends at the Lunar BrewingCompany for a few hours, and it's
(28:52):
there where he gets a call fromMary, the next door neighbor, saying
have you seen Kathleen? So hecalls Kathleen and sell and the home several
times. He's unable to get intouch with her. He calls Mary when
he goes back home, and Marysays, Steve, I hate to tell
you this, but Kathleen was founddead. Drew was there and Steve walked
(29:14):
in. So when Steve finally makesit to the house, Drew's there,
he says, quote first, Isaid, Drew, I sure, hope
you didn't have anything to do withthis, and he said that he did
not, and there was a littlebit of small talk, and then Steve
says, boy, this shirt workedout well for you, and Drew responded
with she would have lost anyway,Harry Dad. Yeah, all right.
(29:41):
So this is huge bombshell testimony.This confirms a lot of stuff about the
jewelry, the bath mets. Solet's move on to the toxicologist, Christopher
Long. He had been working withSaint Louis University School of Medicine. Not
a medical doctor, but he hastwo masters and a PhD kind of doctor.
He testifies that they tested for awide range of drugs, even alcohol
(30:06):
from the samples they received from Kathleen'sliver. Kathleen had zero traces of anything
and everything. She was clean asa whistle the night she died, so
she couldn't have been drunk and felldown and hurt herself and killed herself.
That is completely rolled out. Theytested another sample of when she was exhumed
(30:27):
again. They determined zero drugs,absolutely clean, nothing in her body.
Doctor Bloom testifies that she's in verygood physical shape when she had died.
She did have a three inch byone inch scratch. Her aarrooys and throat
were completely free from injury, sothis kind of rules out that she was
(30:49):
strangled. Also, there's no damageto her lungs, but she did have
two thousand grams of water. Thisdoes confirm that she had not eaten or
drinking anything right before death. Becausethey're going over the autopsy here and what
they found, and there are somerumors out there that Kathleen may have died
due to an appendix rupture or abrain aneurysm. They rule this out given
(31:14):
the results of the autopsy. Shedid have a minimum amount of brain swelling,
which is common with drownings, probablytrauma common correct with a massive laceration
to the back of your head.And so doctor Blum also goes into the
lack of bruising that would have happenedif she felt which is like Jen said
in the first episode, and thisis the quote from him. The body
(31:40):
during fall will instinctively reflexively extend thearms in an attempt to re establish balance
and control. It's something that youcan't help. I would characterize it as
when you fall, you sprawl,you sprawl out, and an attempt to
stop yourself. And this is notsomething that the doctor who did the original
autopsy accounted for. No bruising onthe back of the arms, nothing like
(32:02):
that. Since that cut was tothe back of her head, the assumption
was that she fell backwards. Atthe end of the report, which is
super long and I read, soyou don't have to, he says.
This is about her death. Thecuts and bruises did not come from a
fall. They were in positions thatwould make it impossible. Her death officially
(32:25):
is drowning, not the laceration,not the bruises. It's official there was
water in her lungs, all right. So let's get to Scott Rosetto.
He's Stacy's current missing wife's friend.They had met when Stacy dated Scott's twin
(32:45):
brother. The only dated a fewmonths and his brother enlistened to the military
two days before September eleventh, Soneeds to say they got him to boot
camp super quick ended that relationship.Stacy didn't wait around. She called Scott
and told him she was married.And so what Scott is going to testify
too, is that just days beforeStacy went missing, she told him,
(33:13):
Look, my husband Drew killed Kathleenand I am going to leave Drew.
But Scott got the dates and places, you know, Denny's versus an apartment
mixed up. And the judge says, you know what, you're just not
consistent with what you're trying to say. I'm going to bar you from testifying.
So big, big, big blowto the prosecution here. So now
(33:38):
in the trial, there's been severalcalls from mistrial by the defense, and
the prosecution has gotten their hands lappeda few times for overstepping in their questioning.
Judge's kind of losing patience with them. They're just kind of being petty.
So over the course of the nextfew witnesses, the prosecution brought in
(33:58):
another medical doctor to talk about thisbig cut to the skull, and the
doctor testified that the cut was madeby blunt force trauma and could not have
been associated with a fall in thetub, but the hit would have made
her black out. I have atheory about the water. My theory is
(34:22):
she got hit in the back ofthe head. You know, the mats
cleaned it up. There's so there'sno spotter it got cleaned up. Whether
that it got to be that night, maybe a few nights afterwards, given
someone's access to the house. Butwhile she was passed out, he put
her face in a bowl of water. So actually I I saw somewhere that
(34:45):
there is a theory that she wasbeing drowned basically elsewhere the sink, the
toilet, whatever it may be.He was pressing her down, which left
the bruises on her chest. Itwasn't working, so to speak, so
(35:06):
we hit her over the head withsomething and then put her in the bathtub
to play it off, which wouldalso explain how she did have the water
in her lungs and the thing onher head and the bruising on her chest.
So that's I mean, it's possible. So also we've talked about,
you know, the pictures of thetub. There was not blood anywhere outside
of what was next to the drain. Right now, this doctor says,
(35:29):
that kind of force and that cutwould have bled everywhere, and this doctor
goes on to say that the scratchfound on Kathleen would have had to come
from somewhere outside the tub, givenhow smooth the tub and its edges are.
Now we've got an explosive witness,and this is Jeffrey Patcher. And
(35:50):
Jeffrey was working as a tech fora cable company in two thousand and three
and he met Drew Peterson. Soback when Jeffrey was eighteen, he had
a relationship with a fifteen year oldgirl. He pled guilty to a misdemeanor.
He was ordered to stay away fromher. He did not, so
he got slapped with a felony andhad to register as a sex offender for
(36:12):
ten years. Well, now enterDrew into the picture. He asked Drew
to run his background and check itbecause he was having a hard time getting
a job and the offender status shouldhave been off of there. Well,
Drew told him what to do andhow to take care of it, and
Jeffrey's like cool, thanks man,super nice. But then Drew told Jeffrey
(36:35):
that he had an ex wife causinghim problems and that Drew would give Jeffrey
twenty five thousand dollars to take careof it. Or that if Jeffrey found
someone else to do it, hecould keep the balance of what the other
guy charged. So he's using himto recruit basically. And this was around
November of two thousand and three.And now you know, the guy's like,
(36:55):
oh, well, why do youwant to kill her? What's the
problem Andrew, who gives the storythat his ex wife had a drug problem,
she worked at Red Lobster. Justlet me know when it's done.
It's causing a whole bunch of issues. And he said, call me and
give me this key phrase they hadjust to let him know, like a
keyword, a code word, tolet him know that the job is done.
(37:16):
Drew wanted to know when he coulddo it, to make sure that
he had a rock solid alibi.And he was like, look, I'll
go book a vacation, I'll goout of the country something so that there's
no question as to my involvement,and I'll cause a fight. I'll cause
a scene while I'm there. Thatway everyone knows I wasn't here. Well,
Jeffrey did not contact the police aboutthis, but Drew called him in
(37:40):
July two thousand and four and saidthat he did not need that quote unquote
favor anymore. Jeffrey came forward afterseeing the Drew Peterson case on the Nancy
Gray Show, and that's when hetold this information and then they brought him
in for the trial. So beforeKathleen's death, and while Drew is married
(38:00):
to Stacy, Stacy and Drew wentto their pastor for marriage counseling. They
had not been married long at all, so they call the pastor to testify.
So here's kind of a summary ofwhat he testified to. On August
thirtieth, two thousand and seven,he gets a call from Stacy asking the
pastor to meet her at Starbucks inBowling Brook the next morning, about a
(38:23):
thirty in the morning. He getsthere and Stacy's looking super nervous. The
conversation lasted about two hours. Sheconfesses inside of Starbucks that one night,
she and Drew went to bed atthe same time they were both getting to
go to sleep. She woke upin the middle of the night and noticed
Drew was not in the bed withher. She gets up, looks around
(38:46):
her room, looks around the entirehouse. She didn't find him in the
house. He was gone. Sheattempted to call him, but she couldn't
get him on the phone. Itwas early in the morning hours. She
woke up and searched the house again. This time she sees him standing near
(39:06):
the washer and dryer. He's dressedin all black, carrying a bag.
She said that he removed his clothingit and then took the contents out of
the bag and put him all inthe washing machine. When she kind of
peeked in the washing machine, shesaid that she saw women's clothes that's not
hers. And when they talked aboutit, he said that the police will
(39:28):
be coming soon to interview her.He told her what to say to the
police. Drew told her to lieon Drew's behalf to the police because remember
she provided the alibi for that night. So and then now she's the missing
one. Let's not forget that.We keep talking about Stacy, and you
(39:50):
know he was with this seventeen yearold girl. She is now the missing
one. So let's go to thesentencing face. So September sixth of twenty
twelve, Ruy Peterson was found guiltyhe first degree murder after just two days
of deliberation, and he was sentencedto thirty eight years. He was assigned
to the Minor Correctional Center in Chester, Illinois, and the first time he
(40:13):
will be up for parole is whenhe is ninety three years old. So
he was moved to a federal institution, Tara HOAt within a month of being
there. So he gets to TaHalt and why he's there, he got
attacked by another prisoner And when theyasked the prisoner why he attacked Drew,
he just said he wanted Drew stuffto sell it on eBay to true crime
(40:37):
fans, because Drew was just thatpopular of a person. But it's not
long until Drew gets in trouble again. So October thirteenth, this time a
prisoner comes forward and says, Drewwants me to hire him a hit man.
The target was the prosecutor of hismurder, traw this Glasgow. So
Drew's holding a little bit of agrudge. He's thinking that class co guy
(41:00):
needs to be taken care of ifyou will. I mean, he's already
tried to hire a cable technician tokill his stepbrother and his stepbrother and so
we have a history here. Andbefore you all start yelling, jail house
informant snitch thinking this is all madeup it's not. And the reason why
(41:22):
we know it's not is because theinformant talked to the guards in the warden
and got to wear a wire andit got it all recorded. So Peterson
said, absolutely, he was surethat its now turning back. When this
informant was trying to egg them,Hey do you want to do this?
Do you want to do this?And Drew was like, yes, do
(41:43):
it and if you and if yousucceed, I'm gonna sneak in some booze
and we're going to celebrate that night. So hitman for hire smuggling contraband into
a federal prison because if Glasgow isdead, he claims that no one else
will have the guts to challenge hisappeal. He's thinking, he is this
(42:07):
big, scary you know, forcedto be reckoned with, and he's so
scary, nobody's gonna take him on. Only Glaska was, and that's why
he wants to have him taken careof. Because he knew if he got
out of prison, they would chargePeterson with Stacy's death. So Glasgow had
(42:27):
already told him, Look, evenif you get out, we're gonna charge
you with Stacy. So you're gonnago right, back in. So if
he takes care of Glasgow, hetakes care of that secondary murder charge just
waiting for him. So side notehere, Drew's oldest son took in all
of Drew's kids and raised them likehis own when Drew was convicted. But
(42:50):
there's one big thing still lingering outthere that we have not addressed yet,
and that is where the heck isStacy, and we don't know. Unfortunately,
her sister is passionate about her sisterbeing in a local canal, which
was about twenty seven miles away inthe I and M Canal, but there
(43:10):
were not enough funds raised to actuallysend the party out there to look.
And her sister has devoted basically herentire adult life to trying to find Stacy.
She tried, you know, varioussites and third parties to try to
raise funds for you know, diveand rescue, but you know, there
(43:34):
wasn't enough. During the first threedays of Stacy's disappearance, when the police
searched the canal, they found whatlooked like to others as a body,
but when they went back to thesite with the proper tools, they couldn't
find it again, and the statepolice refused to go out to the canal
again and do any more searches,but in a court TV interview, her
(43:57):
sister believes there is a body andshe's like, I don't know if it's
Stacy's, but it's somebody's and weneed to find it. There is a
dive team from Alaska that is broughtin. Technology is getting better and better,
and they were able to take apicture of what they think are remains.
(44:17):
Now she reached out to the statepolice and again they're like, look,
we're not going to do it.We're not going to come out there
and search this canal because when theylook at this picture, they see a
rock covered in silt, some ofits comfort and silk. When I look
at the pictures, it really doeslook like a skull. I mean you
(44:40):
can really tell the two eye indentationsand the jaw and if the skull is
a part of her sister remains,she all she wants to do is give
it a proper burial. That's allshe wants to do. But she's very
adamant, going, hey, evenif this is not my sister, this
this body deserves to be identified andrespected. Let's go back to Drew for
(45:06):
a second, because it still goes. This is after sentencing, This is
after the trial. Drew now claimsthat his lawyer was ineffective counsel. This
is the same lawyer that set upthe dating game, or tried to at
least until the station manager shut itdown. I can kind of see this
(45:27):
affected, you know, bad counsel. And also if you look at some
of those interviews his lawyers gave,you would kind of sayh yeah, but
what they do outside the court versuswhat they do in the court completely different
matter. He's trying his hardest,he's trying to get out of jail.
Greenberg is leading the charge, sayingthat the divorce attorney should never have been
(45:52):
called because of the hearsay right,it should never have been admitted even if
that law had been passed. Drew'sappeal is denied, and he decided to
devise a revenge plot because he's alreadydone it a couple of times before.
Investigators used eavesdropping devices and insider informationagain again and slammed him for it.
(46:17):
So he can't win for losing again, he is going to be sitting in
jail because they tacked on that firsthit. They attacked on more years,
so he has never getting out ofjail ever again. And it also ended
up in an actual solicitation of murderfor higher charge, so he is actually
(46:40):
convicted of premeditated murder of Kathleen Savioand the solicitation of murder for hire that
he caught Willy was behind bars.And it's really really sad that Stacy has
never been found because I cannot help, but wonder, I mean, my
god, she was seventeen years oldand he was old, he was verging,
(47:02):
he was in his forties, lateforties. Maybe they did that.
I mean, it just sounds likegrimming. Every time he was with someone,
they were younger and younger, andwhen he couldn't manipulate them anymore,
he went for someone even younger.And you know, I just can't help,
but wonder if if that was partof it. I'm sure it was.
(47:22):
I'm sure it was. And it'sabsolutely horrible because she was trying to
get out of the situation. It'svery clear that that is true. And
both of them were very vocal.Yeah, both of them were very vocal.
They told all their friends and familiesand anyone who can hear them,
he's going to kill me. Andit's going to be an accident. Yeah,
that was not something he told oneperson. He told several of them
(47:45):
that, and that's disgusting, it'sterrifying. Thank goodness, the last one
got out because of her dad.That would have been her fifth wife.
I mean, my goodness, andyou the only one who he was not
physical to was the first one,and she said even still he was pretty
(48:06):
terrible. I do wish they wouldfind her though, because it's been a
really long time and it's it's wonderfulthat they were able to go back and
reopen Kathleen's case and give it theclassification and the justice that it deserved.
But I wish that that could happenfor Stacy too. And I remember,
(48:27):
I mean, this case was hugeat the time, and it was the
Stacy Peterson case, Stacy Peterson case. But then unfortunately, she still got
lost. You know, she definitelygot her voice got lost during the trial
in the aftermath, and thank goodnessfor her sister being so vocal about it,
and hopefully you can still google her. She's still very active in raising
(48:52):
funds, trying to get a rescuedive and rescue teams out there. And
because she thinks the best bet isthis connection. I not at least check
that thing. Even if it's we'renot sure it might be a rocket,
why not just double check. Well, this police department hasn't been known to
be really great. Hopefully they'll getsome new administration in, but I think
(49:17):
it's going to take pressure from thepublic for it to blow up again for
them to be go, okay,now we'll do it. And in my
baby, they just don't have thefunds to do it. Yeah, which
is unfortunate. But that wraps upthe second case in the Peterson series.
Full disclosure, we're not entirely surewhat's next. We haven't figured that one
(49:38):
out the next one. So giveus a few weeks to prep figure out
research and all that, and we'llbe back with another series like this.
I have a vacation coming up andthen it's back to school time. But
I'm hoping we'll have something by theend of summer, hopefully, So just
bear with us. I would sayAugust, because I've I've got one that
(50:00):
I'm working on that I keep hangingup. Yeah, yeah, I have
one that I'm working on. Sowe do have one. What am I
talking about? Yeah, we haveone that I'm working on, and you
found one too today. Yeah,I don't know if that fits into this
series. I really want to coverit, but I don't know if it
fits into this series. How doyou do it? Ye? Like it
anyway? That's not I don't know. I'll make the case for it.
(50:23):
But yeah. So all that tosay, thanks for hanging with us.
We will be back in a fewweeks here with another round for you guys.
So in the meantime, find uson Facebook, Instagram, Patreon,
all that fun stuff. And yeah, you know what they said to Felicia,
Bye bye,
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