October 14, 2024 • 43 mins
In this episode we pick up with some rumors flying around about Alex Murdaugh, some new charges, and the start of the trial.
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Music by:Kai Engel"Daemones"Blooper music by:Art of Escapism"Coal Miners"This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ or send a letter to Creative Commons, PO Box 1866, Mountain View, CA 94042, USA.
Sources:
To access earlier episodes of Corpus Delicti and to help support the show, please visit patreon.com/corpusdelicti
Our merch store can be found at teepublic.com/stores/corpus-delicti-podcast
Music by:Kai Engel"Daemones"Blooper music by:Art of Escapism"Coal Miners"This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/ or send a letter to Creative Commons, PO Box 1866, Mountain View, CA 94042, USA.
Sources:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial_of_Alex_Murdaugh
- https://www.biography.com/crime/a43183077/alex-murdaugh-family-murdaugh-murders
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murdaugh_family
- https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/01/23/the-corrupt-world-behind-the-murdaugh-murders
- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/stephen-smith-death-south-carolina-murdaugh-country-timeline-48-hours/
- https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/mallory-beach-boat-crash-death-alex-murdaugh-family/4/
- https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/alex-murdaugh-housekeeper-gloria-satterfield-b2521651.html
- Murdaugh Murders: A Southern Scandal Netflix
- https://www.today.com/news/alex-murdaugh-hitman-curtis-eddie-smith-roadside-confession-details-rcna105810
- https://www.wjcl.com/article/remainder-of-alex-murdaughs-money-divvied-up-satterfield-family-not-set-to-receive-a-share/46664259#:~:text=following%20her%20death.-,He%20got%20that%20money%20from%20a%20wrongful%20death%20insurance%20settlement,come%20directly%20from%20Alex%20Murdaugh.
- https://www.wsav.com/news/local-news/south-carolina-news/alex-murdaugh-says-he-lied-about-gloria-satterfields-cause-of-death/
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFp_QZenFfQ
- https://www.wjcl.com/article/lightning-strike-disables-vehicle-on-i-16-near-metter/61653342
- https://www.newsweek.com/buster-murdaugh-testimoney-alex-murdaugh-family-murder-trial-1783271
- https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alex-murdaugh-trial-guilty-verdict-life-in-prison-what-to-know/
- https://www.counton2.com/the-murdaugh-investigation
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hey, everyone is Jen and this is Lindsay, and welcome
to Corpus Delictai the podcast. We are part three of
the Alec Myrdal I don't want, I don't know what
you call it a dram a drama saga because it
just keeps on going.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, we're having flashbacks because when we did the Scott
Peterson case, I was like, it's gonna be three episodes,
it's gonna be four, it's gonna be eight, and and uh,
we said this was gonna be three, it's probably gonna
be four, just based on the pace we're getting through it.
So with us here, let's go ahead and just jump
right in since since we are kind of, you know,
(01:05):
prolonging it and we're going to pick up in August
of twenty two, so we're very recent here, guys. This
all of this did not happen that long ago. And
there is a woman named Lindsay Edwards. She used to
be a sex worker in South Carolina, and she is
interviewed on the news and she claims that she first
(01:26):
serviced Alec Murdau at a private party with other locally powerful,
un named men where drugs were being consumed. So this
is a big deal, right, because he's.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
A married man, there's drugs involved.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
He is at the time that it happened, allegedly higher
up in the communities.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
You know, when I first saw this, I was like, Okay,
probably not true, just because you know, someone wanting to
get their name out there. Then all of a sudden,
Diddy and all of hisgans have now come to light,
and I'm like, you know, I don't doubt this lady.
You know, there's so much that she knows and what
(02:10):
she says in her interviews that makes me really truly
believe this is actually what happened.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, what did she say during that interview? She says
that this encounter actually turned into rape when Murda began
choking her while she is clawing at his arms trying
to escape, while being in her words quote, violently penetrated.
And she said that normally something like this would be
(02:41):
handled by the bouncer, but the madam's bouncer chose not
to intervene because there was an exchange of services agreement
with Alec Murda. Now, she also alleged that there were
three more similar violent sessions with Alec.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Murda in which she was beaten where she was forced.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
To again service him against her will by her madam
and the armed bouncer. These accusations are being investigated by sleds,
So let's say at this point they are allegations. This
is alleged, but it did this interview did happen.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Now we're going to add on to Alex's misery. On
December sixteenth, twenty twenty two, Jess, when you thought he
could not be charged with anything else, he is indicted
by the state's grand jury on nine additional charges of
evading nearly four hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars in
(03:43):
state income taxes. The indictment reflects that he stole nearly
seven million dollars meant for his law firm's bank accounts
and failed to pay taxes on ill gotten gains. At
the end of the day, the irs point blank, if
you make money legally, you gotta pay taxes. If you
(04:04):
make it illegally, go ahead and pay those taxes because
they're going to get you in the end.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Anyways.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Now this is where everyone in his company realized what
he was doing too. And then once that gets out,
then the irsays, like, wait a minute, if he took.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
That he also owes us.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So it's just boy, he's got that shovel and he
is just digging himself in a deeper and deeper hole.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So he's now got over.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
One hundred charges involving financial fraud, he's got two murder charges.
He needs money and fast because he's got some legal
bills to pay. So he gives Buster, the surviving son,
this broad power of attorney so that Buster can start
selling their assets and helping with the legal bills. So
(04:52):
the first thing that he does is he puts the
Mozelle property on the market for three point nine million,
and the beach house is put on the market for
just under one million. But the judge is like, not
so fast, and he freezes all assets and properties in
November of twenty twenty one. So basically they can't profit
off of the sale of these properties while all of
(05:14):
this is going on, because they know what they're trying
to do and they're like, this is where it's all
gonna come from.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Not so fast.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Well, remember, because he stole the money from Gloria Satterfield's
children her sons, so they have a settlement coming in
that he has to pay back. He also has to
pay back as law firms. These creditors are lined up
and they're like, Judge, you gotta freeze everything or we're
(05:41):
not gonna see a penny.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Alex gets out of rehab, he is placed immediately under arrest.
Remember he was going back and forth rehab into the
court hearings, so they arrest him. The judge posted a
seven million dollar bail. Given all of his money issues,
Alex decides not to post bail and remain in jail,
probably very smart. Seven million was just for the money fraud.
(06:09):
He was denied bail for the murder charges. So even
if he could bail out and post it for just
the financial stuff, he couldn't leave anyways.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Which is probably another reason why he didn't do it,
because that would be stupid, because you.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Can't Why would you pay seven million just because you
can't leave.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
He hasn't exactly been the brightest crayon in the box,
true yet so all right, So, while in jail, Alex
was talking to Buster and pretty much the conversations range
from small talk to family finances, and it uncovered yet
another financial scandal.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I'm shocked.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
If you're ever in jail, every phone call, every video conference,
every thing you say, whether it's in your cell in
the dining hall, take it as not private. Always never sue.
(07:11):
You can say something and it be private in a
jail because we know of informants, we know of the cameras,
and they record everything. So it turns out Alec had
paid Butch Bowers six hundred thousand dollars to help Buster
get back into law school. You remember how he got
kicked out. I think it was like two episodes ago.
(07:33):
We talked about Buster getting kicked out for plagiarism and
the school was like, nope, try to do another bribe.
The school said, nope, he was able to get back
in because he accepted this another bribe. Well, you can't
do that because it's fraud, and that got him another
fraud charge.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So let's get to the part that a lot of
us remember very well. Let's get to the trial, because
this was just last year in twenty twenty three. The
trial began on January twenty third in Walterboro, South Carolina,
at the Colleton County Courthouse. Side note in the courthouse,
Alex's grandfather's.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Portrait was in the courtroom where he was tried.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Now, they figured that that might cause an issue, may
be cast some bias. Having Granddaddy's picture up there. Oh,
this is a great family. So the judge ordered it
to be taken down. When the trial started, Alec was
represented by Dick Harpoutlian and Jim Griffin. Keep in mind
these are the two guys who were representing on the
boat case as well. Harpoutlian is a state senator and
(08:42):
a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and Creighton Waters
led the state on the prosecution side.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
The defense came out of the gate with the bank.
They are not playing around. They immediately follow a motion
not till out any of the financial crimes to come
into the murder case. They say it's completely unrelated. His
drug crimes, his financial crimes, his embezzlement, had nothing to
do with the murders. Now, the judge, he takes two
(09:15):
days in his private chambers. He looks at the testimony
from the witnesses and he's like, you know what, it
can be leaked because you've got these financials that he
had to represent and present because of the boat case,
which you know, in a roundabout way, led to Paul's death.
(09:37):
The issue also is because the defense opened the door
and asked a witness what motive they thought led to
the murders, and the witness said, yeah, it was the money.
So the defense they did it to themselves basically.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
By asking what do you think the motive is and
somebody answering money. The defense who tries to say the
money isn't relevant is the one who who made it
known that people thought that the motive was money.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
All right. I watched this live time when this next
event happened, and I was in there texting Lindsey, going,
You're not gonna believe this. You're not gonna believe this,
all right. Two days later, we're in we're in the trial.
A bomb threat gets called in. This delays the trial,
so to add more bus.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I'm gonna be honest, I remember this. My first thought was, Oh,
you mean the trial for the guy who already tried
to fake his death by having uncle Eddie cousin brother
Tom on the side of the road shoot him, and
now has a bomb threat during his trial after every
(10:47):
other tactic has been used.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Now there's no evidence to support that.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I think it was just like a thing. But my
first instinct was, oh my god, No, he didn't exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I thought the same thing too, but they couldn't trace
it back to Alan or any member of the family.
All right, to add more bumps to this road, the
next week, two of the jurors had to be replaced
because of COVID nineteen. There there is another jury that
got dismissed for behaviors and they weren't very clear on it.
(11:18):
So we had were already replacing three jurors. New charges
are filed against Alex. He brought contraband to the courtroom.
This contraband was a book given to Alex at the trial.
Bias sister. You know, she just handed him a book.
You can't do that if you are in the courtroom.
You cannot give the defendant any thing.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
She did. She don't know what's in it? Is it
a weapon?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Is it what information that should have been turned over?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I mean that you can't do that.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
It was completely say, there was no hidden files or
stashed away gun in it, but still it happened, and
that it's still.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Against the rules.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
There's a lot of witnesses in this straw, and I
do mean a lot of them. There's no way we're
going to cover them all, but we will go through
some of the really really prominent key witnesses here, and
we're gonna start with the prosecution.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Now.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
The prosecution started off with the nine to one one
call and the fresh responders. They testified that instead of
rushing them over to the bodies and demanding that he
help or that they help his wife and son, he
just starts talking about the boat wreck. He doesn't say
anything if here's my wife, here's my son, go help,
go help again. Soon as that cop opens that door,
(12:39):
he's rushing the cop and going there's a boat accident,
all right. So remember how we said earlier that his
shirt and shorts real super clean. So his wife and
son are covered in blood and there's not a drop
on him. He didn't touch them.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
But here's the thing, though he said he did.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
He said he grabbed.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Paul's phone, rolled him over, then rolled him back over,
and put the phone back when he realized he was dead.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
That there is nothing on him. His hands are cleaned.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
On that note, first responders were wearing body cameras and
they captured the conversation and you can listen to it.
It's out there and it's a little bit strange because
it sounds like a very prepared speech, just perfectly laying
out his defense.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
He was not asked where.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Were you, where'd you come from? But he starts off
the story with that I was at my mom's house
and I came home, And he's laying out the backstory
before he's even asked. So the police asked when the
last time was that he saw Maggie and Paul, and
he goes into the full afternoon of events. He's hanging
out with Paul that afternoon. He even points out tire tracks,
(13:51):
because there's several tire tracks leading to and from the kennels,
and he says only two pairs of these tracks are mine.
So it's like he's already been investigating the scene, saying
there's other time tracks here, which if I walk up
on my kid and my husband.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Dead, I'm not looking for tire track.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I don't think I'm looking for that. The first thing
I'm gonna do is call nine one one and wait
until they get there. I mean, it's and if you
are doing that, that means you had time. That means
you had time to go through and look for those things.
So the defense tried to downplay his whole verbal rampage
(14:28):
when the first when the police officers first arrived, and
they brought up that the scene was not secured quickly enough.
Now I would agree there it probably wasn't. They said
that people were walking around without flashlights, without proper clothing
to prevent contamination. They're tracking stuff in and out of
the feed room, maybe destroying evidence, which I mean, based
(14:49):
on what we know about the housekeepers showing up and
the brothers showing up, that probably is true.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, that's tracking. Also in evidence was body camp footage
of Alex being interviewed in the cop car. Remember how
we talked about that, Well, three policemen.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Were in the car.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
During the interview, Alex breaks down and says, it's just
so bad. I did him so bad. The defense try
to convince the jury that Alex said it's just so bad,
they did him so bad. Now, I've listened to that
clip more than twenty times, fast forward, rewind, slow mode.
(15:31):
I personally hear I did him so bad. But I
mean the defense even tries to slow it down to
a third at the speed to try to convince it.
It to me as clear as day.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I will say I heard I but but I will
admit that he was crying. He was kind of in
that who you know how his snotty cry. Yeah, I
heard I but I will be the first to relent
(16:05):
that one. If he said that, that's pretty freaking stupid,
and it would have just had to have been like,
I don't know, some moment of I don't even know what,
some bad slip up, which seems a little unlikely. I
could see where it could be mishurt. I will give
him that.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
All right. Ballistics and firearms, Oh my word, all right,
there's a lot of guns, there's a lot of ammunition,
there's bullet casings. This is a hunting land, and so
a firearms expert came to the witness stand. The prosecution
expert testifies that there was a three hundred blackout rifle
(16:47):
ammunition that was found on the ground near Maggie's body
that matches the ammunition inside the gun ring. When they
tested the blackout rifle, the spent bullet casings matched the
ones near Maggy's body and the ones found near the
shooting field. The target range on the property also matched.
So this gives a very strong evidence that the gun
(17:08):
used in Maggie's murder was the one owned by the family.
A three hundred blackout rifle is not cheap. It's a
special rifle. It's not your everyday go to Walmart and
get and the fact that this kind of really goes
bad against Alex because why would you go to someone's
(17:30):
house to murder them but not bring your own weapon.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Right, And I remember that was one of the moments
where I was like, oh, because going into the trial,
I had heard about the case, but I hadn't listened
to any of the in depth podcasts or anything. I
kind of went into it just knowing the high level details.
And that was one of the moments where I was like, Oh,
that's a really fricking good point. If you're going in
to kill two people, you either have to one no
(17:56):
darn well, what's on that property, meaning you have to
have been on it to know where to find it,
or two you were in it you lived there so
And I mean during this trial, it's a big, high
profile trial. People are waiting in lines wrapped around the
courtroom just to try to get in every day. It's
(18:18):
a media storm. So the prosecution then brings in expert witnesses.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
To go through all.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
The cell phone data and looking at the pings and
the steps and all that. They also bring in Davis.
Now we talked about Davis because he's the one who
went out there, is feeding the chickens, he cleans the cages,
he puts the water hose back, and they are talking
about the water hose being piled up on the ground.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Davis testifies kind of like what we said earlier was
that he was very particular about this water hose. This
is a good paying gig for him and he didn't
want to screw it up, especially the high profile family.
He loved the dogs, He took care of the dogs.
He took his job very seriously, and he would not
have left that mess that they saw on the body
(19:04):
camp footage. So we're gonna dive into that, but we're
gonna do it when we talk about the defense and
a little bit later. So we're gonna narrow down moments
just before the murder. We're gonna give you a good
timeline of events. We're not covering the financials.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Just know that there's a lot of embezzlement, fraud, hiding funds,
misdirecting funds, insurance scams. All that's the that's the correux
of the financial crimes.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
But and he does have a separate trial for that too,
so exactly so, But before we.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Get into the cell phone data which establishes the timeline,
which is very crucial in this case, let's take a
quick break and we will jump into that when we
get back.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
All right, guys, welcome back, all right, bear with us.
It's a lot of times, it's a lot of dates,
but it is so interesting, all right. A thirty one PM,
the night of the murders, John Marvin Murdall sends a
text to several family members, including Alex and Maggie, so
it's like a family group chat. It says, a plan
(20:12):
to go over to visit Dad tomorrow afternoon. Is anyone
else planning to go? Maggie's phone did not unlock to
read this notification until eight forty nine reads it at
one forty four pm the following day. You remember how
we talked about Paul getting and sending a lot of
(20:32):
this text messages between him and his friends between eight
and almost nine, or we're going to go through that
because it's so telling, and this was the clinch of
the trial right here.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So eight forty four pm we have the Kennel video
and we talked about this briefly. We're going to go
into more detail now. Rogan Gibson is a longtime friend
of Paul's. He was living out of town at the
time of the murders, but he lived next to Paul
for several years when they were younger, and he testified
that Alec bought two three hundred Blackout rifles. One was
(21:06):
for Buster, and there was a and that one was black,
and then there was a green and tan one for Paul.
One of these guns was stolen out of Paul's track
when Paul was at a party. This was about five
or six years earlier. And these guns are equipped with
a thermal scope. The black three hundred Blackout, which would
(21:27):
imply in this case that its Busters, was found at
the house, and this is the one that is thought
to have shot Maggie. It matched the bullet casings by
her body and also the ones at the shooting range
on the property. Paul would frequently carry the three hundred
Blackout around with him when he rode around on the property.
(21:47):
Rogan also identified the silver Eagle shotgun that Paul owned
that was thought to have been the one that killed Paul.
So Rogan was working in Beaufort and was staying with
his girlfriend. He could not have his chocolate lab with him,
who was named Cash. So Paul let Cash stay in
the kennels like we said last time, and this was
at the Mozelle property and he would stay there during
(22:08):
the week. Cash is pretty much a puppy, he's four
to six months old. So at around eight forty Rogan
gets a call from Paul asking if there was something
wrong with Cash's tail. Paul was at the kennels trying
to describe what was wrong with the tail, and during
this phone call, Rogan testifies that he heard Maggie in
the background and thinks he heard Alec as well, so
(22:33):
he is hearing the family members out at the kennels
at eight forty.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Now, Paul's going to try to FaceTime Rogan so he
could see the tail because the reception there is bad
at the kennels, so it's trying to talk to someone
and it's spacing out. The video feed is not good.
So Paul's like, you know what, I'm just going to
take a video of the tale and I'm just going
to send it to him. It's just going to be
easy that way. At eight forty four pm, the video
(23:04):
is recorded. The video starts out with Paul entering the
kennelt with Cash. Paul videos Cash's tail and you can
see on the video that little dog is just wagging
its tail.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I mean, it's super cute.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And you also hear Maggie and Alec in the background
talking about guinea versus a chicken conversation. Bubba the dog
had either a guinea or a chicken in its mouth,
and you can hear Alec in the background calling out
to Bubba, which is the yellow lab and it's like
(23:38):
some type of bird in the mouth.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
This contradicts everything that.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Alec had previously told the cops, told his lawyers, told
the police, and testified too, because he's saying he wasn't there.
He was driving back from his mom's house, pulls up,
sees the body. He had no clue Paul was videoing. Now,
this puts Alec at the kennels before and after the
(24:09):
deaths of his son and his wife. Rogan never got
the video, and he called and text Paul and he
wasn't getting any response from him. And he even sends
a text to Maggie and says, hey, tell Paul to
send me this video. Tell him to call me, and
Maggie never responded. During his testimony, Rogan confirmed that it
(24:31):
was common for guns to be left down at the kennels,
and also confirms the under cross examination that he did
not hear any additional people or any additional cars pull up,
So he's saying nobody else. Didn't hear anyone else. I
didn't hear any vehicles. I only heard Alec and Maggie
(24:54):
having this conversation about some type of bird and seeing
the dog's tail whack. Paul's phone locks and is not
used again after eight forty eight that evening.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
So then eight forty nine, just one minute after Paul's
phone locks, Maggie's phone unlocks and she reads another text
in that group chat about Alex's dad. And then just
seconds later, her phone accesses an app and made an
(25:29):
orientation change to landscape. So you know how like if
you have your camera up and it's facing up and down,
you can flip the phone and it changes the orientation.
That's what is talking about here. So eight forty nine
and thirty one seconds we're talking. Just a few seconds
after she picked up the phone, checked a text message,
changed the orientation of the phone. Her phone is now locked,
(25:55):
and it is not unlocked again until it has found
a quarter mile away the next afternoon when the police,
when all of this has already happened, the police are
out at the property. So how did her phone go
from the kennels just minutes before to a quarter mile
(26:15):
away when she is laying dead on the ground at
the kennels. So investigators believe that Maggie and Paul Murdau
were killed around eight p fifty At the kennels. Paul
is shot twice with a shotgun, once in the chest
and once in the head. Maggie is shot five times
with three hundred blackout AMMO from an ar style rifle.
(26:36):
Two of those shots hit her in the head. Prosecutors
ended up resting their case on February seventeenth. So again
there's a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot more
as far as witnesses. The trial goes on for oh
my god, how long was it?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Like?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Weeks and weeks, But these are kind of the high points,
and this time framed this video that Alec had no
idea was being taken, ended up being the oh my god,
the literal smoking gun moment.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
All right, So let's talk about the defense and what
exactly did they try to do? So the first thing
the defense tries to do is confuse the timeline of
the desks, allowing for a more time from the kennel
video to the time of the murders. And I will
say this, that video it was almost like a last
(27:28):
minute entry to the trial. It wasn't one of those
where the defense knew about it a long time ahead
of time. It was one of those they were consistently
trying to get it open, consistently trying to work out it,
and they discovered it all right. So they called Colton
County Corner, who testified that he had only estimated the
(27:50):
body's temperatures and that the reported time frame is an estimate.
This guy got all my nerves. I will tell you
that right now, all right, Corner, Harvey does not have
a medical degree. And I think we've talked about this before.
You do not have to have it. Think, yes, you
do not have to have a medical degree. He was
(28:11):
called out to the Moselle property and arrived there at
eleven h four PM. When he arrives, he begins to
take his own pictures before Sled has time to process
the scene. Time of death is determined by him to
be approximately nine o'clock. Not that far off, I will
say so. When questioned how he did this, he initially said,
(28:34):
I simply put my hands in their armpits to see
if they were warm.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Oh, yes, can we get a thermometer or like, well,
funny you should.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Say that either, well, there is a way by using
a rectal thermometer, but he said, dude to the respect
for the bodies and the people around, he chose to
provide to provide the bodies with the nitty y uh.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I one hundred percent am for treating victims with dignity. Absolutely, yes,
with it being a criminal investigation, I feel though, like
that is very important.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I you could have asked someone to hold up some sheets. Yeah,
give give it some privacy. He was able to determine
that the bodies did not have rigor, which means it
was less than three hours. Now. His armpit analysis was
pretty accurate. I will say that.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
But yeah, and the rigor thing makes more sense, and
maybe those two together he was like, Okay, I don't
need to do this because of the rigor thing. That's
that's more scientific. So but then when there, Yeah, the
defense had a heyday on this. They tried to get
him to say that the murder could have happened around
ten pm and that the corner did say nine o'clock
(30:03):
was an estimate, and they were pushing, they were pushing
him hard to say, no, it happened to ten, because
that would have given an Alec enough time to get
to the mom's house to come back to kind of
bus of the timeline. But wouldn't that, in a way
be even worse because if it happened around ten o'clock,
Alec has already admitted to being home during that time.
(30:23):
Why didn't you hear what seven to eight whatever gunshot's
going off?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Well, he said he was asleep on the couch and
we'll get to that. So now, cause of death, time
of death, there's a lot of science that goes into it,
but there is also a lot of estimation because you
got to take in the variables. What's the size of
the person, is it raining, is it hot, is it cold?
The age of the person is a factor. If they're
(30:50):
covered is a factor. So in this situation, you know
whether or not they've already gone into rigorid. That's going
to be your strongest part to play here. If you
will now Buster Buster's called to the stand to defend
his dad, and at first he talks a lot about
(31:12):
his dad coaching little leagues, you know, trying to portray
this wholesome, all American dad that's there for the kids,
takes them hunting, doesn't mention that he lets them drink
at the age of fifteen until they're snuckered and then
they pass out. He walked through the family's house so
just kind of give them the layout of the properties
(31:34):
they owned.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
The type of people they were.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
And Buster's asked about the guns on the property, and
he said that he and Paul would leave guns all
around the property. They would leave them on the golf cart,
in the feed room, in their vehicles. When I was
hearing that, I'm like, what spoiled children? Yeah, to leave
like thousands of dollars of gun and ammunition just laying
(32:00):
around a just in my head, I'm screaming, gun safety,
gun safety.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Well and one angle for having him do this. And
he is not the only one who said that they
would leave their guns around the property, right is The
defense is like, well, anyone could have come up and
taken it. You know, they left them all over, so
you would only have to be at the property one
time to know that. They just leave guns hanging around
(32:26):
and it would be easy to go on the property,
kill someone with their own gun and essentially frame them
for it. That's what they're kind of trying to get
at here.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
So Buster testified that Maggie had started staying at Mozelle
since all of the negative press that was coming out
about the boating accident, so she didn't want to be
at the house on the water as much as she
was coming back to Mozelle, which leads into the weekend
before the murders. So he tells the Dury that during
(32:57):
Memorial Day weekend, he was with his family at the
beach house.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
He details out, this is where we were Memorial Day weekend. Well,
the defense switches strategies a little bit and they were like,
what about your dad in his clothes? So the defense
is trying to make out that Alex's changing his clothes
from the blue dress shirt to the white T shirt.
How frequently does your dad shower? Buster answered, he would
(33:24):
take them a lot working out there. If he goes outside,
he sweats a lot. Now, Alec at the time of.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
The murders, he's a tall guy.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
He's over six feet, but he had some weight on him.
He was a big dude. You know. You see him
in trial and you see him now and he's really
really skinny. Prison food will do that to you. But
he was a big guy. So I could see that
him going out there and sweating a lot and wanting
to come home and shower.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
They're in a hot state in summer, it's humid. I
can actually see that as well, and that's one thing
I thought about.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
But what I do find odd is that he was out.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
There with Paul, running around looking at the tree. All
that goes in changes, but then comes back out and
is back out there later at the kennels with Maggie
and Paul, which.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
We have on video and.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
So far, in all of these timelines that he has
given us, he never once said I took a shower
before I left to go see his mom. Like he
cuts there, he goes out, he does his joy riding,
the target shooting, he eats dinner, he falls asleep, and
then he decides to go see his mom. He never
(34:42):
once said I took a shower first. It maybe it's
one of those little minute details that he just didn't mention,
but you would think that he would, especially when you're
talking about the changing of the clothes.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
So going back to Buster on the stand, he disagreed
with investigators that what his dad had said on that
clip that we talked about was I did them so bad.
Buster says, no, he said they and again I hear I,
but I can see where it would be misinterpreted, misconstrued.
I mean, he's crying, he's sobbing, and it's I don't know,
(35:19):
it's hard to hear.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
So.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Buster also said that he was somewhat aware of his
father's drug addiction problems, and he said that he knew
a little bit. He also said that his mother and
brother had confronted Alec about the pills that they had
found previously. Now this stands out to me because he
specifically says Maggie and Paul had confronted Alec about his
(35:42):
pills that they had found. To me, that's weird because
the two people who are now dead confronted him about it,
which are also the two who were there when the
housekeeper died, who the housekeeper had also allegedly found pills.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
That's weird to me.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
It is weird and you want to talk about if
there was a confrontation, it didn't sound like it through
the video feed, the video conversation that Paul inadvertently was
texting his friend. You hear the conversation between Maggie and Alec.
They're talking about the dog, they're talking about the guinea
(36:25):
versus chicken. You don't hear the confrontation. You don't hear that.
And in the video leading up to it, their joy
riding around, you don't see that in there. So it
almost seems misplaced, like could that confrontation have happened beforehand?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
So after that, the defense called several expert witnesses. One
of these was a crime scene engineer, and they recreated
the crime scene and they argued that the presumed height
of the shooter was not consistent with the defendant's height.
So you know, you can look at the bullet angle
(37:05):
and you know how it entered, how it exited, and
determine where it was shot from, and that does carry
some weight. What you cannot account for is were they
in the process of falling, Were they in the process
of dropping the gun, were they kneeling, were they being
attacked and they were laying on the ground, and aiming up.
(37:27):
That's what you can't necessarily account for there.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
And the prosecution had their own gun witness that did
a reconstruction of the blue stick figure and the red
stick figure and the shooter and the dark blue stick
figure doing all that and in their model, in their simulation,
it worked out because Alec would come kneel, shoot the
(37:54):
shotgun at Paul while he's trying to come out of
the feeding house, then shoot again, and it would match
the upper trajectory because Alec was kneeling, then turns around
and walks over and gets Maggie next, because Maggie would
have been running, and that's why she was shot so much,
(38:17):
because she was running. So it is they the defense
did theirs saying that there's no way one person could
carry two guns and execute those shots so fast, and
the prosecution on this side is like, no, if he
had a shoulder strap, it could have definitely been executed well.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
And this is one of the things I remember, until
they clarified. One of the big hang ups I had
is I was like, there's two guns. It just that's
sitting weird with me, you know, Why was there someone
else there? Like I think he was out there because
we've got the video footage, but were there two people?
And we'll get more into the gun, but basically they
(38:57):
determined that that first gun, believe it, it had two
shots in it, and so he had to go then
get another one because that one was no longer loaded.
And again they've got all these guns laying around. Whatever happens,
he shoots, Paul realizes he's out and has to grab
another weapon to attack Maggie.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Because if he thinks, if Paul's no longer here, the
boat cases dropped, his financial crimes go unseen, his drug
addictions go unseen, and his work may have felt so
bad for him that they wouldn't have fired him or
it to him.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
This another distraction.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
It's another distraction exactly.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
And Maggie at this point, you know, what's what's the motive? Well, one,
did he know about the potential her meeting with a
divorce attorney? Is it for sympathy? Is it to try
to you know, be a distraction from all this? Is
it because she potentially found his pills?
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Is it because she was.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Onto him for the money stuff? You know, there's there's
several different reasons that he could have the motive for
these two murders is very much there. Regardless of if
it's him or not. The motive is there.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Could she have just been the wrong place the wrong time,
could it could it have been?
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Absolutely, but so were actually yeah, we're We're actually gonna
pause here. Next Alec Murdau takes the stand, which doesn't
happen often, okay, because that's something that most attorneys are like,
please don't do that, and I feel like this is
a good example of why. So we will pause and
(40:48):
give Alec on the stand his own episode. We'll do
that next time, and that will be the last episode.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Oh man, I have thoughts.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
I have so many thoughts, and it is watching it
is so cringe worthy.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
But and the next one will probably be a little
bit shorter because we're kind of add like an awkward timeframe, like,
you know, do we put it all in this one
or do the next one?
Speaker 3 (41:12):
But I'm gonna be honest.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
When we split it up, it's because the editing software
that I use, I put it through something that transcribes
it and I can listen and also read along with it,
and it will only accept sixty minutes of audio out
of time before we have to pay more.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
So I'm gonna be.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Honest and say we're gonna put into a new episode
because we got to pay more for longer episodes, and.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I think we're gonna get carried away with this. I
really do. I believe that we have a lot to
say about this, this testimony that he is going to give.
But until but guys, don't forget we've got Patreon. We're
starting to put a lot more stuff on there that
makes me cringe, but y'all might enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
And don't forget our book club for October November December.
The Paygereon episodes are going to be the fourth Monkey,
the fifth to sixth Wicked Child, which is the fourth
Monkey series. So we have those and let's hit it.
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
If you've got a true crime book that you're passionate
about and you want us to discuss, give us options.
Lindsay and I are both avid readers. We love it,
We cherish it, and I have stacks next to my
bed that I am trying to get through and I've
paused two series so I can read the fourth Monkey
(42:31):
Killer and it has been worth it, Like I have
to go to go back and reread some of sase fiction.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
But if you want to do a true crime when
we can, because I know it's a true crime podcast,
So why are we doing a fiction book.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
We just really like it and feel like you guys
might do. It's something different, it's something fun to mix it.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Up, so it didn't have to be real. It's just anyway.
Thank god, it's not.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
To the point in the first book. I was sent
our Patreon people this what last week that the author
went back in the acknowledgments in that first paragraph said, look,
I had a great childhood. None of this customers orad
I'm really okay, okay, yeah, they're just really well done.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
I hope you guys enjoyed as much as we have.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
So with all that said, we will hit that for
the end of the year, and then they're making plans.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
For twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yeah, we gotta go hurricane prep now.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Yeah, we're we're getting the slappy seconds of Hurricane Helene here.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
So but until then, you know what they said to
Flatia Bye,
Hey, everyone is Jen and this is Lindsay, and welcome
to Corpus Delictai the podcast. We are part three of
the Alec Myrdal I don't want, I don't know what
you call it a dram a drama saga because it
just keeps on going.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Yeah, we're having flashbacks because when we did the Scott
Peterson case, I was like, it's gonna be three episodes,
it's gonna be four, it's gonna be eight, and and uh,
we said this was gonna be three, it's probably gonna
be four, just based on the pace we're getting through it.
So with us here, let's go ahead and just jump
right in since since we are kind of, you know,
(01:05):
prolonging it and we're going to pick up in August
of twenty two, so we're very recent here, guys. This
all of this did not happen that long ago. And
there is a woman named Lindsay Edwards. She used to
be a sex worker in South Carolina, and she is
interviewed on the news and she claims that she first
(01:26):
serviced Alec Murdau at a private party with other locally powerful,
un named men where drugs were being consumed. So this
is a big deal, right, because he's.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
A married man, there's drugs involved.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
He is at the time that it happened, allegedly higher
up in the communities.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
You know, when I first saw this, I was like, Okay,
probably not true, just because you know, someone wanting to
get their name out there. Then all of a sudden,
Diddy and all of hisgans have now come to light,
and I'm like, you know, I don't doubt this lady.
You know, there's so much that she knows and what
(02:10):
she says in her interviews that makes me really truly
believe this is actually what happened.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, what did she say during that interview? She says
that this encounter actually turned into rape when Murda began
choking her while she is clawing at his arms trying
to escape, while being in her words quote, violently penetrated.
And she said that normally something like this would be
(02:41):
handled by the bouncer, but the madam's bouncer chose not
to intervene because there was an exchange of services agreement
with Alec Murda. Now, she also alleged that there were
three more similar violent sessions with Alec.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Murda in which she was beaten where she was forced.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
To again service him against her will by her madam
and the armed bouncer. These accusations are being investigated by sleds,
So let's say at this point they are allegations. This
is alleged, but it did this interview did happen.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Now we're going to add on to Alex's misery. On
December sixteenth, twenty twenty two, Jess, when you thought he
could not be charged with anything else, he is indicted
by the state's grand jury on nine additional charges of
evading nearly four hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars in
(03:43):
state income taxes. The indictment reflects that he stole nearly
seven million dollars meant for his law firm's bank accounts
and failed to pay taxes on ill gotten gains. At
the end of the day, the irs point blank, if
you make money legally, you gotta pay taxes. If you
(04:04):
make it illegally, go ahead and pay those taxes because
they're going to get you in the end.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Anyways.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Now this is where everyone in his company realized what
he was doing too. And then once that gets out,
then the irsays, like, wait a minute, if he took.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
That he also owes us.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So it's just boy, he's got that shovel and he
is just digging himself in a deeper and deeper hole.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
So he's now got over.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
One hundred charges involving financial fraud, he's got two murder charges.
He needs money and fast because he's got some legal
bills to pay. So he gives Buster, the surviving son,
this broad power of attorney so that Buster can start
selling their assets and helping with the legal bills. So
(04:52):
the first thing that he does is he puts the
Mozelle property on the market for three point nine million,
and the beach house is put on the market for
just under one million. But the judge is like, not
so fast, and he freezes all assets and properties in
November of twenty twenty one. So basically they can't profit
off of the sale of these properties while all of
(05:14):
this is going on, because they know what they're trying
to do and they're like, this is where it's all
gonna come from.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Not so fast.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Well, remember, because he stole the money from Gloria Satterfield's
children her sons, so they have a settlement coming in
that he has to pay back. He also has to
pay back as law firms. These creditors are lined up
and they're like, Judge, you gotta freeze everything or we're
(05:41):
not gonna see a penny.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Now.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Alex gets out of rehab, he is placed immediately under arrest.
Remember he was going back and forth rehab into the
court hearings, so they arrest him. The judge posted a
seven million dollar bail. Given all of his money issues,
Alex decides not to post bail and remain in jail,
probably very smart. Seven million was just for the money fraud.
(06:09):
He was denied bail for the murder charges. So even
if he could bail out and post it for just
the financial stuff, he couldn't leave anyways.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Which is probably another reason why he didn't do it,
because that would be stupid, because you.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Can't Why would you pay seven million just because you
can't leave.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
He hasn't exactly been the brightest crayon in the box,
true yet so all right, So, while in jail, Alex
was talking to Buster and pretty much the conversations range
from small talk to family finances, and it uncovered yet
another financial scandal.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I'm shocked.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
If you're ever in jail, every phone call, every video conference,
every thing you say, whether it's in your cell in
the dining hall, take it as not private. Always never sue.
(07:11):
You can say something and it be private in a
jail because we know of informants, we know of the cameras,
and they record everything. So it turns out Alec had
paid Butch Bowers six hundred thousand dollars to help Buster
get back into law school. You remember how he got
kicked out. I think it was like two episodes ago.
(07:33):
We talked about Buster getting kicked out for plagiarism and
the school was like, nope, try to do another bribe.
The school said, nope, he was able to get back
in because he accepted this another bribe. Well, you can't
do that because it's fraud, and that got him another
fraud charge.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Oh boy.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
So let's get to the part that a lot of
us remember very well. Let's get to the trial, because
this was just last year in twenty twenty three. The
trial began on January twenty third in Walterboro, South Carolina,
at the Colleton County Courthouse. Side note in the courthouse,
Alex's grandfather's.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Portrait was in the courtroom where he was tried.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Now, they figured that that might cause an issue, may
be cast some bias. Having Granddaddy's picture up there. Oh,
this is a great family. So the judge ordered it
to be taken down. When the trial started, Alec was
represented by Dick Harpoutlian and Jim Griffin. Keep in mind
these are the two guys who were representing on the
boat case as well. Harpoutlian is a state senator and
(08:42):
a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and Creighton Waters
led the state on the prosecution side.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
The defense came out of the gate with the bank.
They are not playing around. They immediately follow a motion
not till out any of the financial crimes to come
into the murder case. They say it's completely unrelated. His
drug crimes, his financial crimes, his embezzlement, had nothing to
do with the murders. Now, the judge, he takes two
(09:15):
days in his private chambers. He looks at the testimony
from the witnesses and he's like, you know what, it
can be leaked because you've got these financials that he
had to represent and present because of the boat case,
which you know, in a roundabout way, led to Paul's death.
(09:37):
The issue also is because the defense opened the door
and asked a witness what motive they thought led to
the murders, and the witness said, yeah, it was the money.
So the defense they did it to themselves basically.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
By asking what do you think the motive is and
somebody answering money. The defense who tries to say the
money isn't relevant is the one who who made it
known that people thought that the motive was money.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
All right. I watched this live time when this next
event happened, and I was in there texting Lindsey, going,
You're not gonna believe this. You're not gonna believe this,
all right. Two days later, we're in we're in the trial.
A bomb threat gets called in. This delays the trial,
so to add more bus.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
I'm gonna be honest, I remember this. My first thought was, Oh,
you mean the trial for the guy who already tried
to fake his death by having uncle Eddie cousin brother
Tom on the side of the road shoot him, and
now has a bomb threat during his trial after every
(10:47):
other tactic has been used.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Now there's no evidence to support that.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
I think it was just like a thing. But my
first instinct was, oh my god, No, he didn't exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I thought the same thing too, but they couldn't trace
it back to Alan or any member of the family.
All right, to add more bumps to this road, the
next week, two of the jurors had to be replaced
because of COVID nineteen. There there is another jury that
got dismissed for behaviors and they weren't very clear on it.
(11:18):
So we had were already replacing three jurors. New charges
are filed against Alex. He brought contraband to the courtroom.
This contraband was a book given to Alex at the trial.
Bias sister. You know, she just handed him a book.
You can't do that if you are in the courtroom.
You cannot give the defendant any thing.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
She did. She don't know what's in it? Is it
a weapon?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Is it what information that should have been turned over?
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I mean that you can't do that.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
It was completely say, there was no hidden files or
stashed away gun in it, but still it happened, and
that it's still.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Against the rules.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
There's a lot of witnesses in this straw, and I
do mean a lot of them. There's no way we're
going to cover them all, but we will go through
some of the really really prominent key witnesses here, and
we're gonna start with the prosecution.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Now.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
The prosecution started off with the nine to one one
call and the fresh responders. They testified that instead of
rushing them over to the bodies and demanding that he
help or that they help his wife and son, he
just starts talking about the boat wreck. He doesn't say
anything if here's my wife, here's my son, go help,
go help again. Soon as that cop opens that door,
(12:39):
he's rushing the cop and going there's a boat accident,
all right. So remember how we said earlier that his
shirt and shorts real super clean. So his wife and
son are covered in blood and there's not a drop
on him. He didn't touch them.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
But here's the thing, though he said he did.
Speaker 3 (12:59):
He said he grabbed.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Paul's phone, rolled him over, then rolled him back over,
and put the phone back when he realized he was dead.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
That there is nothing on him. His hands are cleaned.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
On that note, first responders were wearing body cameras and
they captured the conversation and you can listen to it.
It's out there and it's a little bit strange because
it sounds like a very prepared speech, just perfectly laying
out his defense.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
He was not asked where.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Were you, where'd you come from? But he starts off
the story with that I was at my mom's house
and I came home, And he's laying out the backstory
before he's even asked. So the police asked when the
last time was that he saw Maggie and Paul, and
he goes into the full afternoon of events. He's hanging
out with Paul that afternoon. He even points out tire tracks,
(13:51):
because there's several tire tracks leading to and from the kennels,
and he says only two pairs of these tracks are mine.
So it's like he's already been investigating the scene, saying
there's other time tracks here, which if I walk up
on my kid and my husband.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Dead, I'm not looking for tire track.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I don't think I'm looking for that. The first thing
I'm gonna do is call nine one one and wait
until they get there. I mean, it's and if you
are doing that, that means you had time. That means
you had time to go through and look for those things.
So the defense tried to downplay his whole verbal rampage
(14:28):
when the first when the police officers first arrived, and
they brought up that the scene was not secured quickly enough.
Now I would agree there it probably wasn't. They said
that people were walking around without flashlights, without proper clothing
to prevent contamination. They're tracking stuff in and out of
the feed room, maybe destroying evidence, which I mean, based
(14:49):
on what we know about the housekeepers showing up and
the brothers showing up, that probably is true.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Yeah, that's tracking. Also in evidence was body camp footage
of Alex being interviewed in the cop car. Remember how
we talked about that, Well, three policemen.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Were in the car.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
During the interview, Alex breaks down and says, it's just
so bad. I did him so bad. The defense try
to convince the jury that Alex said it's just so bad,
they did him so bad. Now, I've listened to that
clip more than twenty times, fast forward, rewind, slow mode.
(15:31):
I personally hear I did him so bad. But I
mean the defense even tries to slow it down to
a third at the speed to try to convince it.
It to me as clear as day.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
I will say I heard I but but I will
admit that he was crying. He was kind of in
that who you know how his snotty cry. Yeah, I
heard I but I will be the first to relent
(16:05):
that one. If he said that, that's pretty freaking stupid,
and it would have just had to have been like,
I don't know, some moment of I don't even know what,
some bad slip up, which seems a little unlikely. I
could see where it could be mishurt. I will give
him that.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
All right. Ballistics and firearms, Oh my word, all right,
there's a lot of guns, there's a lot of ammunition,
there's bullet casings. This is a hunting land, and so
a firearms expert came to the witness stand. The prosecution
expert testifies that there was a three hundred blackout rifle
(16:47):
ammunition that was found on the ground near Maggie's body
that matches the ammunition inside the gun ring. When they
tested the blackout rifle, the spent bullet casings matched the
ones near Maggy's body and the ones found near the
shooting field. The target range on the property also matched.
So this gives a very strong evidence that the gun
(17:08):
used in Maggie's murder was the one owned by the family.
A three hundred blackout rifle is not cheap. It's a
special rifle. It's not your everyday go to Walmart and
get and the fact that this kind of really goes
bad against Alex because why would you go to someone's
(17:30):
house to murder them but not bring your own weapon.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Right, And I remember that was one of the moments
where I was like, oh, because going into the trial,
I had heard about the case, but I hadn't listened
to any of the in depth podcasts or anything. I
kind of went into it just knowing the high level details.
And that was one of the moments where I was like, Oh,
that's a really fricking good point. If you're going in
to kill two people, you either have to one no
(17:56):
darn well, what's on that property, meaning you have to
have been on it to know where to find it,
or two you were in it you lived there so
And I mean during this trial, it's a big, high
profile trial. People are waiting in lines wrapped around the
courtroom just to try to get in every day. It's
(18:18):
a media storm. So the prosecution then brings in expert witnesses.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
To go through all.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
The cell phone data and looking at the pings and
the steps and all that. They also bring in Davis.
Now we talked about Davis because he's the one who
went out there, is feeding the chickens, he cleans the cages,
he puts the water hose back, and they are talking
about the water hose being piled up on the ground.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Davis testifies kind of like what we said earlier was
that he was very particular about this water hose. This
is a good paying gig for him and he didn't
want to screw it up, especially the high profile family.
He loved the dogs, He took care of the dogs.
He took his job very seriously, and he would not
have left that mess that they saw on the body
(19:04):
camp footage. So we're gonna dive into that, but we're
gonna do it when we talk about the defense and
a little bit later. So we're gonna narrow down moments
just before the murder. We're gonna give you a good
timeline of events. We're not covering the financials.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Just know that there's a lot of embezzlement, fraud, hiding funds,
misdirecting funds, insurance scams. All that's the that's the correux
of the financial crimes.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
But and he does have a separate trial for that too,
so exactly so, But before we.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
Get into the cell phone data which establishes the timeline,
which is very crucial in this case, let's take a
quick break and we will jump into that when we
get back.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
All right, guys, welcome back, all right, bear with us.
It's a lot of times, it's a lot of dates,
but it is so interesting, all right. A thirty one PM,
the night of the murders, John Marvin Murdall sends a
text to several family members, including Alex and Maggie, so
it's like a family group chat. It says, a plan
(20:12):
to go over to visit Dad tomorrow afternoon. Is anyone
else planning to go? Maggie's phone did not unlock to
read this notification until eight forty nine reads it at
one forty four pm the following day. You remember how
we talked about Paul getting and sending a lot of
(20:32):
this text messages between him and his friends between eight
and almost nine, or we're going to go through that
because it's so telling, and this was the clinch of
the trial right here.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
So eight forty four pm we have the Kennel video
and we talked about this briefly. We're going to go
into more detail now. Rogan Gibson is a longtime friend
of Paul's. He was living out of town at the
time of the murders, but he lived next to Paul
for several years when they were younger, and he testified
that Alec bought two three hundred Blackout rifles. One was
(21:06):
for Buster, and there was a and that one was black,
and then there was a green and tan one for Paul.
One of these guns was stolen out of Paul's track
when Paul was at a party. This was about five
or six years earlier. And these guns are equipped with
a thermal scope. The black three hundred Blackout, which would
(21:27):
imply in this case that its Busters, was found at
the house, and this is the one that is thought
to have shot Maggie. It matched the bullet casings by
her body and also the ones at the shooting range
on the property. Paul would frequently carry the three hundred
Blackout around with him when he rode around on the property.
(21:47):
Rogan also identified the silver Eagle shotgun that Paul owned
that was thought to have been the one that killed Paul.
So Rogan was working in Beaufort and was staying with
his girlfriend. He could not have his chocolate lab with him,
who was named Cash. So Paul let Cash stay in
the kennels like we said last time, and this was
at the Mozelle property and he would stay there during
(22:08):
the week. Cash is pretty much a puppy, he's four
to six months old. So at around eight forty Rogan
gets a call from Paul asking if there was something
wrong with Cash's tail. Paul was at the kennels trying
to describe what was wrong with the tail, and during
this phone call, Rogan testifies that he heard Maggie in
the background and thinks he heard Alec as well, so
(22:33):
he is hearing the family members out at the kennels
at eight forty.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Now, Paul's going to try to FaceTime Rogan so he
could see the tail because the reception there is bad
at the kennels, so it's trying to talk to someone
and it's spacing out. The video feed is not good.
So Paul's like, you know what, I'm just going to
take a video of the tale and I'm just going
to send it to him. It's just going to be
easy that way. At eight forty four pm, the video
(23:04):
is recorded. The video starts out with Paul entering the
kennelt with Cash. Paul videos Cash's tail and you can
see on the video that little dog is just wagging
its tail.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I mean, it's super cute.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And you also hear Maggie and Alec in the background
talking about guinea versus a chicken conversation. Bubba the dog
had either a guinea or a chicken in its mouth,
and you can hear Alec in the background calling out
to Bubba, which is the yellow lab and it's like
(23:38):
some type of bird in the mouth.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
This contradicts everything that.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Alec had previously told the cops, told his lawyers, told
the police, and testified too, because he's saying he wasn't there.
He was driving back from his mom's house, pulls up,
sees the body. He had no clue Paul was videoing. Now,
this puts Alec at the kennels before and after the
(24:09):
deaths of his son and his wife. Rogan never got
the video, and he called and text Paul and he
wasn't getting any response from him. And he even sends
a text to Maggie and says, hey, tell Paul to
send me this video. Tell him to call me, and
Maggie never responded. During his testimony, Rogan confirmed that it
(24:31):
was common for guns to be left down at the kennels,
and also confirms the under cross examination that he did
not hear any additional people or any additional cars pull up,
So he's saying nobody else. Didn't hear anyone else. I
didn't hear any vehicles. I only heard Alec and Maggie
(24:54):
having this conversation about some type of bird and seeing
the dog's tail whack. Paul's phone locks and is not
used again after eight forty eight that evening.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
So then eight forty nine, just one minute after Paul's
phone locks, Maggie's phone unlocks and she reads another text
in that group chat about Alex's dad. And then just
seconds later, her phone accesses an app and made an
(25:29):
orientation change to landscape. So you know how like if
you have your camera up and it's facing up and down,
you can flip the phone and it changes the orientation.
That's what is talking about here. So eight forty nine
and thirty one seconds we're talking. Just a few seconds
after she picked up the phone, checked a text message,
changed the orientation of the phone. Her phone is now locked,
(25:55):
and it is not unlocked again until it has found
a quarter mile away the next afternoon when the police,
when all of this has already happened, the police are
out at the property. So how did her phone go
from the kennels just minutes before to a quarter mile
(26:15):
away when she is laying dead on the ground at
the kennels. So investigators believe that Maggie and Paul Murdau
were killed around eight p fifty At the kennels. Paul
is shot twice with a shotgun, once in the chest
and once in the head. Maggie is shot five times
with three hundred blackout AMMO from an ar style rifle.
(26:36):
Two of those shots hit her in the head. Prosecutors
ended up resting their case on February seventeenth. So again
there's a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot more
as far as witnesses. The trial goes on for oh
my god, how long was it?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Like?
Speaker 2 (26:52):
Weeks and weeks, But these are kind of the high points,
and this time framed this video that Alec had no
idea was being taken, ended up being the oh my god,
the literal smoking gun moment.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
All right, So let's talk about the defense and what
exactly did they try to do? So the first thing
the defense tries to do is confuse the timeline of
the desks, allowing for a more time from the kennel
video to the time of the murders. And I will
say this, that video it was almost like a last
(27:28):
minute entry to the trial. It wasn't one of those
where the defense knew about it a long time ahead
of time. It was one of those they were consistently
trying to get it open, consistently trying to work out it,
and they discovered it all right. So they called Colton
County Corner, who testified that he had only estimated the
(27:50):
body's temperatures and that the reported time frame is an estimate.
This guy got all my nerves. I will tell you
that right now, all right, Corner, Harvey does not have
a medical degree. And I think we've talked about this before.
You do not have to have it. Think, yes, you
do not have to have a medical degree. He was
(28:11):
called out to the Moselle property and arrived there at
eleven h four PM. When he arrives, he begins to
take his own pictures before Sled has time to process
the scene. Time of death is determined by him to
be approximately nine o'clock. Not that far off, I will
say so. When questioned how he did this, he initially said,
(28:34):
I simply put my hands in their armpits to see
if they were warm.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Oh, yes, can we get a thermometer or like, well,
funny you should.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
Say that either, well, there is a way by using
a rectal thermometer, but he said, dude to the respect
for the bodies and the people around, he chose to
provide to provide the bodies with the nitty y uh.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I one hundred percent am for treating victims with dignity. Absolutely, yes,
with it being a criminal investigation, I feel though, like
that is very important.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
I you could have asked someone to hold up some sheets. Yeah,
give give it some privacy. He was able to determine
that the bodies did not have rigor, which means it
was less than three hours. Now. His armpit analysis was
pretty accurate. I will say that.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
But yeah, and the rigor thing makes more sense, and
maybe those two together he was like, Okay, I don't
need to do this because of the rigor thing. That's
that's more scientific. So but then when there, Yeah, the
defense had a heyday on this. They tried to get
him to say that the murder could have happened around
ten pm and that the corner did say nine o'clock
(30:03):
was an estimate, and they were pushing, they were pushing
him hard to say, no, it happened to ten, because
that would have given an Alec enough time to get
to the mom's house to come back to kind of
bus of the timeline. But wouldn't that, in a way
be even worse because if it happened around ten o'clock,
Alec has already admitted to being home during that time.
(30:23):
Why didn't you hear what seven to eight whatever gunshot's
going off?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Well, he said he was asleep on the couch and
we'll get to that. So now, cause of death, time
of death, there's a lot of science that goes into it,
but there is also a lot of estimation because you
got to take in the variables. What's the size of
the person, is it raining, is it hot, is it cold?
The age of the person is a factor. If they're
(30:50):
covered is a factor. So in this situation, you know
whether or not they've already gone into rigorid. That's going
to be your strongest part to play here. If you
will now Buster Buster's called to the stand to defend
his dad, and at first he talks a lot about
(31:12):
his dad coaching little leagues, you know, trying to portray
this wholesome, all American dad that's there for the kids,
takes them hunting, doesn't mention that he lets them drink
at the age of fifteen until they're snuckered and then
they pass out. He walked through the family's house so
just kind of give them the layout of the properties
(31:34):
they owned.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
The type of people they were.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
And Buster's asked about the guns on the property, and
he said that he and Paul would leave guns all
around the property. They would leave them on the golf cart,
in the feed room, in their vehicles. When I was
hearing that, I'm like, what spoiled children? Yeah, to leave
like thousands of dollars of gun and ammunition just laying
(32:00):
around a just in my head, I'm screaming, gun safety,
gun safety.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Well and one angle for having him do this. And
he is not the only one who said that they
would leave their guns around the property, right is The
defense is like, well, anyone could have come up and
taken it. You know, they left them all over, so
you would only have to be at the property one
time to know that. They just leave guns hanging around
(32:26):
and it would be easy to go on the property,
kill someone with their own gun and essentially frame them
for it. That's what they're kind of trying to get
at here.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
So Buster testified that Maggie had started staying at Mozelle
since all of the negative press that was coming out
about the boating accident, so she didn't want to be
at the house on the water as much as she
was coming back to Mozelle, which leads into the weekend
before the murders. So he tells the Dury that during
(32:57):
Memorial Day weekend, he was with his family at the
beach house.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
He details out, this is where we were Memorial Day weekend. Well,
the defense switches strategies a little bit and they were like,
what about your dad in his clothes? So the defense
is trying to make out that Alex's changing his clothes
from the blue dress shirt to the white T shirt.
How frequently does your dad shower? Buster answered, he would
(33:24):
take them a lot working out there. If he goes outside,
he sweats a lot. Now, Alec at the time of.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
The murders, he's a tall guy.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
He's over six feet, but he had some weight on him.
He was a big dude. You know. You see him
in trial and you see him now and he's really
really skinny. Prison food will do that to you. But
he was a big guy. So I could see that
him going out there and sweating a lot and wanting
to come home and shower.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
They're in a hot state in summer, it's humid. I
can actually see that as well, and that's one thing
I thought about.
Speaker 3 (34:00):
But what I do find odd is that he was out.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
There with Paul, running around looking at the tree. All
that goes in changes, but then comes back out and
is back out there later at the kennels with Maggie
and Paul, which.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
We have on video and.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
So far, in all of these timelines that he has
given us, he never once said I took a shower
before I left to go see his mom. Like he
cuts there, he goes out, he does his joy riding,
the target shooting, he eats dinner, he falls asleep, and
then he decides to go see his mom. He never
(34:42):
once said I took a shower first. It maybe it's
one of those little minute details that he just didn't mention,
but you would think that he would, especially when you're
talking about the changing of the clothes.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
So going back to Buster on the stand, he disagreed
with investigators that what his dad had said on that
clip that we talked about was I did them so bad.
Buster says, no, he said they and again I hear I,
but I can see where it would be misinterpreted, misconstrued.
I mean, he's crying, he's sobbing, and it's I don't know,
(35:19):
it's hard to hear.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
So.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Buster also said that he was somewhat aware of his
father's drug addiction problems, and he said that he knew
a little bit. He also said that his mother and
brother had confronted Alec about the pills that they had
found previously. Now this stands out to me because he
specifically says Maggie and Paul had confronted Alec about his
(35:42):
pills that they had found. To me, that's weird because
the two people who are now dead confronted him about it,
which are also the two who were there when the
housekeeper died, who the housekeeper had also allegedly found pills.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
That's weird to me.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
It is weird and you want to talk about if
there was a confrontation, it didn't sound like it through
the video feed, the video conversation that Paul inadvertently was
texting his friend. You hear the conversation between Maggie and Alec.
They're talking about the dog, they're talking about the guinea
(36:25):
versus chicken. You don't hear the confrontation. You don't hear that.
And in the video leading up to it, their joy
riding around, you don't see that in there. So it
almost seems misplaced, like could that confrontation have happened beforehand?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
So after that, the defense called several expert witnesses. One
of these was a crime scene engineer, and they recreated
the crime scene and they argued that the presumed height
of the shooter was not consistent with the defendant's height.
So you know, you can look at the bullet angle
(37:05):
and you know how it entered, how it exited, and
determine where it was shot from, and that does carry
some weight. What you cannot account for is were they
in the process of falling, Were they in the process
of dropping the gun, were they kneeling, were they being
attacked and they were laying on the ground, and aiming up.
(37:27):
That's what you can't necessarily account for there.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
And the prosecution had their own gun witness that did
a reconstruction of the blue stick figure and the red
stick figure and the shooter and the dark blue stick
figure doing all that and in their model, in their simulation,
it worked out because Alec would come kneel, shoot the
(37:54):
shotgun at Paul while he's trying to come out of
the feeding house, then shoot again, and it would match
the upper trajectory because Alec was kneeling, then turns around
and walks over and gets Maggie next, because Maggie would
have been running, and that's why she was shot so much,
(38:17):
because she was running. So it is they the defense
did theirs saying that there's no way one person could
carry two guns and execute those shots so fast, and
the prosecution on this side is like, no, if he
had a shoulder strap, it could have definitely been executed well.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
And this is one of the things I remember, until
they clarified. One of the big hang ups I had
is I was like, there's two guns. It just that's
sitting weird with me, you know, Why was there someone
else there? Like I think he was out there because
we've got the video footage, but were there two people?
And we'll get more into the gun, but basically they
(38:57):
determined that that first gun, believe it, it had two
shots in it, and so he had to go then
get another one because that one was no longer loaded.
And again they've got all these guns laying around. Whatever happens,
he shoots, Paul realizes he's out and has to grab
another weapon to attack Maggie.
Speaker 1 (39:20):
Because if he thinks, if Paul's no longer here, the
boat cases dropped, his financial crimes go unseen, his drug
addictions go unseen, and his work may have felt so
bad for him that they wouldn't have fired him or
it to him.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
This another distraction.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
It's another distraction exactly.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
And Maggie at this point, you know, what's what's the motive? Well, one,
did he know about the potential her meeting with a
divorce attorney? Is it for sympathy? Is it to try
to you know, be a distraction from all this? Is
it because she potentially found his pills?
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Is it because she was.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Onto him for the money stuff? You know, there's there's
several different reasons that he could have the motive for
these two murders is very much there. Regardless of if
it's him or not. The motive is there.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Could she have just been the wrong place the wrong time,
could it could it have been?
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (40:26):
Absolutely, but so were actually yeah, we're We're actually gonna
pause here. Next Alec Murdau takes the stand, which doesn't
happen often, okay, because that's something that most attorneys are like,
please don't do that, and I feel like this is
a good example of why. So we will pause and
(40:48):
give Alec on the stand his own episode. We'll do
that next time, and that will be the last episode.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
Oh man, I have thoughts.
Speaker 1 (40:57):
I have so many thoughts, and it is watching it
is so cringe worthy.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
But and the next one will probably be a little
bit shorter because we're kind of add like an awkward timeframe, like,
you know, do we put it all in this one
or do the next one?
Speaker 3 (41:12):
But I'm gonna be honest.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
When we split it up, it's because the editing software
that I use, I put it through something that transcribes
it and I can listen and also read along with it,
and it will only accept sixty minutes of audio out
of time before we have to pay more.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
So I'm gonna be.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
Honest and say we're gonna put into a new episode
because we got to pay more for longer episodes, and.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I think we're gonna get carried away with this. I
really do. I believe that we have a lot to
say about this, this testimony that he is going to give.
But until but guys, don't forget we've got Patreon. We're
starting to put a lot more stuff on there that
makes me cringe, but y'all might enjoy it.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
And don't forget our book club for October November December.
The Paygereon episodes are going to be the fourth Monkey,
the fifth to sixth Wicked Child, which is the fourth
Monkey series. So we have those and let's hit it.
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
If you've got a true crime book that you're passionate
about and you want us to discuss, give us options.
Lindsay and I are both avid readers. We love it,
We cherish it, and I have stacks next to my
bed that I am trying to get through and I've
paused two series so I can read the fourth Monkey
(42:31):
Killer and it has been worth it, Like I have
to go to go back and reread some of sase fiction.
Speaker 2 (42:36):
But if you want to do a true crime when
we can, because I know it's a true crime podcast,
So why are we doing a fiction book.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
We just really like it and feel like you guys
might do. It's something different, it's something fun to mix it.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
Up, so it didn't have to be real. It's just anyway.
Thank god, it's not.
Speaker 1 (42:53):
To the point in the first book. I was sent
our Patreon people this what last week that the author
went back in the acknowledgments in that first paragraph said, look,
I had a great childhood. None of this customers orad
I'm really okay, okay, yeah, they're just really well done.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
I hope you guys enjoyed as much as we have.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
So with all that said, we will hit that for
the end of the year, and then they're making plans.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
For twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (43:22):
Yeah, we gotta go hurricane prep now.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Yeah, we're we're getting the slappy seconds of Hurricane Helene here.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
So but until then, you know what they said to
Flatia Bye,
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