Robin "Rocky" Myers: Road to Redemption Ch. 2 - The VCR - Corpus Delicti

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Hey everyone, it's Jen and this is Lindsay and welcome
back to Corpus Delicti. We are continuing our road to Redemption,
a rocky story.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
If you're just now picking up, you are in part
two of a five ish part series, so you'll want
to go back for sure and listen to the first one.
We're going to dive right in. We have a whole
lot to cover, so we're just gonna get started. We're
going to do a quick recap just so y'all can remember.
High level. Sixty eight year old woman and her cousin

(00:56):
are attacked midnight. Knock on the door opens. Sixty eight
year old Loudy May Tucker is stabbed. She later dies
of her injuries. Mami Dutton is stabbed and survives. They
both recall a short, stocky black mail and a white
shirt with blood on it. Originally, there is a man
named Coolbreeze who is named in this crime because a

(01:20):
VCR was taken from the victim's home and sold for
crack at a crackhouse. From there, the police interviews several
key witnesses and obtained several statements. In the end, a
friend of the family of Cool Breeze points out a
different person and that different person is Rocky, and Rocky

(01:41):
gets arrested. So here we go chapter two, the VCR
witness statements changed and now Rocky is implicated in this crime.
Now Rocky is on probation at the time for receiving
stolen property. They call him in for just a random
drug test at this time. He does fail and it

(02:03):
violates his probation, so they do have the right now
to arrest him. This is when they question him about
Ludy may Tucker's murder. They asked him if he knows Butch.
He says that he doesn't.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Do you know Roadrunner? Now this is Raymond from the
previous story. Do you know Marzelle? And he says, yes,
I know Marzill.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
So he doesn't know Roadrunner or Butch. But he's like, yeah,
I know Marzelle. And they say, well, according to Marzell
and this is Marsell Ewing, he was in the last story,
you sold a VCR to Butch on the night of
the murder. Well, at this point Rocky just hangs his head,
he shakes his head and he's like, Okay, I need

(02:49):
to come clean. I know him. He does admit that
he knows Butch and Roadrunner, and he says, yeah, I
did sell a VCR that night for crack. But he says,
I was definitely not involved in the murder. But they're
asking themselves at this point, Okay, if you didn't commit
the murder, how did you get the VCR that you

(03:10):
just admitted to selling. Rocky says that there is an
alley that runs behind his house which led right to
the shothouse, and he says, I found the VCR in
the alley and I picked it up and I traded it.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Well quite frankly, at this point, Rocky's timeline is a
little bit shaky. He says he remembers seeing the police
arrive at Miss Tucker's home about forty minutes after he
sells the VCR. Later he said, you know, it could
have been ten minutes. Then he says, look, I don't
remember clearly, but we know they arrived within minutes. Then

(03:46):
they said, we know you didn't find the VCR on
the alley, where did it come from? Just trying to
get him to say that he got it from Miss
Tucker's house. At one point, he even says it was
on the fence post in my backyard. And then goes
back to saying it was in the alley.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
So this alley, according to Rocky, always had stuff dumped
back there. It was known for it, and it was
not abnormal for people to go back there and try
to look for things to sell. And we will find
out as the story goes on that others agree with that.
They say, yeah, that that's common for the alley. So
now they've caught him lying about knowing Butchen Roadrunner he

(04:25):
admits to selling a VCR, which these people changed their
statements to say that he did. He says he found
it in an alley, and his timeline is changing, so
to be honest. At this point, it really doesn't look
great for him, So he is officially arrested for the
murder and Cool Breeze is let go.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
However, there is a very specific note here. Rocky is
charged with capital murder. Breeze was just charged with murder.
There is a stronger charge with a potential for a
stronger punishment. So if you get just charged with murder,
you can get life with the possibility of parole. If

(05:04):
you get capital murder, you're up for the death penalty
if the state has one. Alabama does have the death penalty.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
And we'll talk more in a later episode about why
that may potentially be. But important note they were not
charged the same But let's be honest, we would not
be here right now doing this if this case was
this cut and dry. In fact, it's anything but cut
and dry. For one, we haven't specified this yet, but

(05:34):
if you think back to when we covered Rocky's background
last episode, you'll start to see some of this and
all of that in his background was for a very
particular reason. But at this point in life, Rocky read
at approximately a third grade level and could not tell time.
So when you factor this in, there's a shaky timeline

(05:56):
and it seems a little bit less damning at that point.
And this is something that's going to come up in way, way,
way more detail in a future episode. It's also thirty
days later, it's a month after the crime, and when
you are involved in something that you don't realize is
a big deal at the time, you're less likely to

(06:17):
remember it. You're going to remember triggering events, big events,
life events. But at this point, he didn't know anyone
had died until the next day. He didn't know he
was a suspect till a month later exactly.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
So you tend to remember memories that have an emotional attachment.
This night did not have an attachment. It was easily forgotten.
All right, So let's go to the trial. It takes
two years before this trial is to begin, and here's
where we're going to get into a very deep dive

(06:50):
because there are two big issues. One we've already stated
is the question of Rocky's guilt, but the other is
there are a lot of issues with the actual trial. Now,
this is where the first issue occurs. Rocky is represented
by two court appointed attorneys. Morgan County did not and

(07:13):
still does not have a public defender, Hence the court
has to appoint an attorney. One of these is John Mays,
the other is Larry Madison. John Mays is board certified
and criminal trial advocacy. May is graduated from the nation's

(07:35):
criminal defense college, Mercer Law, which is an advanced criminal
defense college. So we just got to dig in locking
up these guys, and what we are about to tell you,
guys comes straight from the Curry Our Journal, the Tampa Times,
the Tampa Tribune, the Morning Call, and the Indiana Gazette.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
We're not reporters. We weren't there, but this is what
we found. Morning Call February eleventh of nineteen eighty seven
says quote John Mays of Decatur, the attorney for the clan,
told the jury in opening statements he didn't know what
deeds would offer. But none of the clan leaders thought
that donald murder was humorous. And this is in reference

(08:17):
to a lynching of a nineteen year old named Michael Donald.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
The Courier Journal. This was published May second, nineteen seventy nine,
and this is written by Jay Lawrence, and it is
quoted Mays is the personal attorney of Robert Shelton of Tescaloosa, Alabama,
the Imperial Wizard of the United Clans of America. May
said yesterday that he could come at the behest of Adams,

(08:44):
and that part of Adam's legal fees were being paid
by the clan.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
And this one is in reference to there was a
clan parade planned and they got the permits to hold it,
but the city d was requiring them to have insurance
in case something went wrong, and they were fighting that,
saying that that's unconstitutional. They shouldn't have to do that.

(09:11):
So The Tampa Tribune September twenty one, nineteen seventy nine
by Bill King, says he said the clan's corporate lawyer,
John Mays, of Decatur, Alabama, will meet with several attorneys
next week.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
From The Courier Journal of Kentucky September twenty third, nineteen
eighty by Mervin Auspin, and it quotes also Sherman Adams,
grand Dragon of the clan in Kentucky, said that the
clan rally is planned for seven pm Saturday. Adam says
speakers will be Don Henson, Grand Dragon of Tennessee, and

(09:47):
John Mays, a clan attorney from Alabama. Now in the
same publication in nineteen eighty by Shelton Schaffer is quoted,
in addition to Draper and Adams, speakers include other people's
names and John Mays, the clan attorney from Alabama who
is a native of Pikeville. Henson and May's bare testimony

(10:10):
that the clan is no longer destined to be clandestined
and its members stereotyped. Neither men wore a robe or hood,
and both professed their allegiance openly. Henson had a dark
black beard and wore a brown suit and a white
shirt and an open collar. Mays wore a suit and tie.

(10:32):
Their espousals, though articulate, were unmistakably and typically those of
the clan.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
All right, so this is who is representing Rocky, John
Mays and Larry Madison. So next we have jury selection.
Rocky ended up with a jury of eleven white people.
The twelfth juror was a younger black male. And important
note here this is nowhere close to representative of Decatur, Alabama,

(11:02):
which is about sixty percent white. We looked up statistics
and Jen is actually from not terribly far from there,
and it's not representative now, not at all. Not only that,
the goal is when you're selecting a jury is to
get a fair and unbiased group of people, and they
call it a jury of your peers. You are entitled

(11:24):
to a jury of your peers, so people like you,
normal everyday people. You're not supposed to have any preconceived notions, biases,
or anything that would prevent you from looking at a
case objectively. You can also try and challenge certain jurors
to keep or replace them. Doesn't mean it will necessarily
be honored. The rules vary from state to state, but

(11:45):
that's the overall general goal. And if you're paying attention
to recent events, the Derek Chauvin case is going through
jury selection right now. That is the police officer who
was involved in the killing of George Floyd. And so
I've been looking at a lot of articles about that
jury selection and what constitutes appear for him, since it's

(12:08):
been all over the news and all that. So there's
a lot of good information out there right now about
what it's supposed to look like.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Judges can also dismiss terrors who can't put aside their
feelings and apply the law impartially, that is, with or
without implied bias. Now, that was from nol dot com.
Now Cornell University reads questions concerning about suitability of durors,
usually or whether they have any information about the case,
whether they're related to a party in the trial, or

(12:37):
whether their prior experience might make them prejudice a perspective.
Juror will be excluded if the lawyer can show the
judge that he or she might act unfairly in the trial.
That is the key point that I'm trying to make here,
that if a juror might act unfairly because of a

(12:58):
preconceived prejudice and it might be unbeknownst to them too,
I mean, because there the questions are laid out in
such a way to unveil hidden prejudices without just coming
Sometimes they do come out and just say it. But
you know it is designed for this, and you can
either strike or accept.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
And another important note, you get so many strikes from
the jury without question, you don't have an unlimited amount.
And then the rest of them you have to prove why.
So again the lawyer has to be on top of
it and say, you know, this isn't representative of what
we're trying to achieve. Now. Of course, you know, the

(13:37):
prosecution and the defense are gonna be all about different people.
Like all this one sounds like they're going to be
good for me, but if no one else strikes it down,
or if you're out of strikes or whatever, and strikes
is not the technical term, but just to make it simple,
since people are overseas too, that's generally at a high
level how it works.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
All right, So let's we've actually got a few of
the strikes and the acceptance from the actual jury pool.
So what we're going to do is we're gonna role
play here, lindsay, do you want to be the juror
now be the court.

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Sure now this person did make it onto the jury,
and like Jen said, I will be the jur I'm
an ex police officer from the state of Michigan. As
I say, I have been on the state's side.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
What do you think you can try this case if
you are selected to serve on the jury, on the
law and the evidence as it comes to you throughout
the course of the trial.

Speaker 2 (14:33):
I would certainly try to stay open minded, although I
have been on the other dwelling of those types of issues.
I would try to do that.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yes, I want to find out now in what instant
you might be more inclined to recommend a death penalty.
For example, if the fact that the victim is elderly,
do you think you might be more inclined to impose
the death penalty? If so, let me know.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
I want to say, I have a lot of compassion
for old people. I have a great grandmother that I
care for.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
You think that might be a factor that you might consider.
I would very much try to keep an open mind.
That's why I'm asking you questions. This way, you would
keep an open mind, But that is a factor you
might weigh a little bit more than some others. So
you can see what he's doing here. The defense attorney
and the courts are trying to undercut his answers to say, Okay,

(15:25):
you do have a great grandmother that you care for.
Do you see how that can come into your prejudice.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Here another important note, I did not realize this. I
learned something new. But when it is a death penalty case,
you can make sure that they are quote unquote qualified
to recommend the death penalty. And what that means is
if someone flat out comes out and says I am

(15:52):
against the death penalty, they will most likely and from
what I understand, should be struck because they want you
to at least be able to consider it if it
is warranted in the case. So that question, I think,
is what they're getting at there. But they talk about
him being an ex police officer, and then it actually

(16:12):
goes on. He says, I have a lot of compassion
for elderly people.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Mister Smith, I may know your answer to this, but
I may not. But how many of you would tend
in a situation where a police officer testified that it
happened a certain way and a non police officer said
it happened another way, with nothing else to guide you,
how many of you would believe the police officer over

(16:39):
the other fellow.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
I would believe the police officer.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Now, to be fair, twice, he did say that he
would try to keep an open mind. But that is
two potential biases in one sitting, because you've got the
elderly person that he cares for, and then you have
him not only saying I was a police officer, I
understand the police side of things.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
But also said I would flat out believe.

Speaker 1 (17:04):
A police officer over someone else. And then there was
a jury who said something to the effect of, if
you make it past the grand jury, you're guilty. You
gotta be. And this person made it through and served
on the jury. Now, grand jury and the actual trial
are two very different burdens. So in a grand jury

(17:28):
you just have to have the burden of could it
have been yes, no? The jury, they're way two extraordinarily
different ways.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
And that's important if you're one of our overseas listeners
to understand. The grand jury is basically where they say
there is enough to potentially have a case. Here, they're
not saying you're guilty they're not saying you're not guilty.
They are saying, hey, we hear the charges. We are
officially going to bring the charges because we think that
there is enough to at least have a trial. Now,

(17:59):
there is an old say in the US that you
can indict a ham sandwich. You can say that you know,
we're charging a ham sandwich with being disgusting. Let's just say,
and you can put it through a grand jury and
go to trial. You don't necessarily have a whole lot
to get there. So this juror who made it onto

(18:19):
the jury is saying, if you make it past that,
you're guilty. They've looked at you and they've they've already
thought there's enough here, So you're guilty.

Speaker 1 (18:27):
So now we're going to start the trial. We're going
to go through some of the witness statements and testimonies.
We're gonna start with the people who actually saw activity
that night. One thing we noticed immediately is that the
tone was set for a very quick trial, which will
be very important later on. For example, the prosecutor said

(18:47):
in his opening statements, we're going to move it along
as best as we can and try to expedite as
well as we can you know is that bad? Is
that wrong? Uh, don't really know, but it says the tone.
But if you're going into it a death penalty trial,
you probably don't want to rush it, and you don't

(19:08):
want to go in with the expectation that it's going
to be expedited.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
And it's like you said, it does at least set
a tone and keep this in mind, because again it
is irrelevant later. So the other thing that we noticed
was in the defense opening statements, and we're going to
read this here. They say the evidence of the area
where this crime was committed is going to be like
looking into the very pit of hell, and it goes

(19:34):
on later to say it's an area the evidence will
show that decent people don't have any business going to.
Nobody could have any legitimate business there unless you absolutely
are so poor that you can't live any place else.
So clearly the strategy here is to cast doubt on
those who are about to give testimony implicating Rocky, which

(19:57):
we already know some of them. There's there's drugs involved,
there's alcohol involved, there's all sorts of stuff involved. So
that's the strategy, but it also could potentially cast doubt
in a jurors mind, not only onto Rocky, but the victim,
Missus Tucker as well, because they lived there. They were

(20:17):
part of it. They were right in that area too. Now,
before we get into this, let's explain the area because
this is going to be very important. So picture for
a second, a lower case t Okay, You've got a
four way intersection. The north and south line is sixth

(20:38):
sixth Avenue, the east and west is Molten Drive, and
Molten Drive on the east side starts to kind of
dip down just a little bit and goes into Gordon Drive.
On the top right quadrant, that little corner is Rocky's house.

(21:00):
Moulten Street is a relatively busy road. There's stop lights.
Right across from Rocky is Missus Tucker's house. On the
top left quadrant, directly to the left of Rocky's house
is a florist. So kind of keep that in mind
because that's kind of where everything takes place.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Mammy Dutton takes the stand. She recalls how she didn't
see the person who committed the crime, and all she
saw with the light colored shirt, she cannot indicate that
if it was Rocky Breeze or even a black man
at all with any kind of certainty. She says the
only reason she thought it was a black man was
because of his voice. However, that day, Mammy did see Rocky.

(21:47):
Ludy May had pointed him out earlier that day when
they were outside, and Ludy May had told her that
Rocky is the one who comes and borrows ice sometimes,
so she.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Had seen him, she knew what he was. That's Rocky.
So then the woman who took the nine to one
one call takes the stand, and this is part of
what she recalled from Miss Tucker's phone call. She was
breathing real hard. I asked her what did he look like?
And she said it was a black male or black man,
I don't remember which. And I kept asking her what

(22:19):
did he look like? And she said she would be
gasping and she would say a white shirt. She may
have said white T shirt. She said white shirt with
blood on it. I kept asking her questions. I don't
remember what they were now, but I remember her saying cut.
I don't remember what else. She would say knife. She
would say one word at a time because she was
having trouble breathing. I heard Officer Tilly come on the

(22:42):
scene and start talking to her, and I disconnected the
line because I knew I didn't need to stay on
the line any longer.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Now, just a few things here. This does line up
with Officer Tilly and what he said happened that same night. Again,
it's obvious Miss Tucker took the time to explain in
detail what she could about who did this, and Officer
Tilly also said this too. So again, why didn't she

(23:11):
just say Rocky? Why did she struggle with every single
detail when she just had to point and say Rocky,
which she did not ever say his name.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
She also says the word cut. Now we are not
entirely sure in what context, because the nine one one
operators said she's going in and out and Miss Tucker
was stabbed, So was she talking about a stab wound?
But typically that's not a cut. Typically that's a big
open wound. She actually confirms this leader in the testimony
when she is asked again, did she say the word cut?

(23:46):
And she says yes.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Then Officer Tilly takes the stand. He basically tells the
exact same story, and he talks about dusting for prints,
seeing the footprints outside. Now, as we talk about in
the first chapter of this series. Nothing was done with
the footprints, no photographs, no measurements, nothing but jotting it

(24:12):
down in his notebook, stating that they were there. We
have no idea how big they were, or if it
was a man shoe versus a woman's shoe. We have
no clue, I will say, though he does specify there
were several sets of prints. Whatever that means.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Does that mean it's several sets from the same person
going back and forth? What does that mean? So next
is Howard Godby. He is another one of the officers
that arrived right after Officer Tilly, and he confirms Tilly's story,
But this is also added, I will be the attorney's
jen will be Howard Godby, the officer. Did you actually

(24:54):
speak with her or were you present when Officer Tilly
was talking to her?

Speaker 1 (24:58):
I spoke with her.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Her description was that the individual was wearing a white
T shirt with blood on it.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Did she indicate to you any familiarity with the person
that had stabbed her?

Speaker 1 (25:10):
No, sir.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Did she make any indication at all that she might
have been aware of who he was or recognized him
in any way at all?

Speaker 1 (25:18):
No, sir. Next step is Vicki Bolden. She lived in
the home with Annie Sue Crittinton, her daughter, and Butch.
So remember Annie was Percy's sister, and Butch and Annie
Sue's daughter were in a relationship. She recalled that she
was home the night and saw a man bringing in

(25:40):
the VCR. Now this time, I'm going to be the
lawyer and Lindsay's going to be Vicky. Sometime that night,
did you see anyone bring in a VCR?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Do you know that person?

Speaker 2 (25:51):
No?

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Was it Valentine?

Speaker 2 (25:53):
No?

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Where were you when they brought in the VCR on
the porch? Can you describe the person who brought the
VCR in? He is kind of short and stocky, wider
black man.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
Black man was a young or old I couldn't tell.
So later on during cross examinations, she elaborates on who
she saw just a little bit and will keep the
same role as Jen as the attorneys, and I will
be Vicki.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
Now, you stated in your first statement that you noticed
the individual who sold the VCR at any Crentton's place.
You saw the person who sold the VCR. Correct, No,
I didn't really see him.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
I just saw him coming up on the porch. I
don't know who he was.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
You said that he had on a long coat, yes,
with a hood, with a hood. It had a hood
on it and a baseball cap. Yes, but you never
saw his face. No, Who did he hand the VCR two.
I only know he had it in his hand. Who
did he hand the VCR two.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
I don't know whoever he gave it to. I just
got off the porch when he came back outside.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
You only saw Coolbrey's there once. Correct. Yes, the coat
you saw this person wearing when he brought the VCR
to the crackhouse. The coat he was wearing was a
long coat.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
It wasn't really long. It came a little above the knees.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
A little above his knees, and he was wearing the coat. Yes,
the coat was not wrapped around the VCR.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
No, I didn't see it wrapped around the VCR.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
So I guess the point the attorney is saying here
that it was a long coat.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
It's coming right above the knees, he's got a baseball
hat on, the coat had a hood, and this VCR
was not wrapped up in the jacket. Those are the
main points to take away from that, and we are
about to hear from several more people. But before we
do that, we're gonna take a quick break.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
All right, dilective, welcome back. Next, we're gonna hear from
Parcel Yarborough. Remember he's the one who went around asking
about the VCR, and he's the one who took it
to the police. He tells how he took the VCR
from the hand else, put it in his van, called
the police, met them and handed it over to them.
He's very specific that nobody else touched this VCR. He

(28:10):
had taken it from the house to the van and
thus to the police. And what's interesting is that he
called the place and said he was bringing it to them.
Why in the world would the police allow him to
do that.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, I don't know protocol for this, but it seems strange.
You would think that the police want to try to
do that themselves. Go get it, Go see the scene
where it is. It's where did you find it? Let
me come get it. But he says, hey, I got
this VCR. I'm gonna come and meet you.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Well, even more, this would give the police cause to
search a known shothouse.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Absolutely more on that to come. So Tyrone Elliott is next.
If you recall, he's the one who worked at the
country club with Breeze's dad. He talked to the investigator.
He implicated Rocky first, and then the others followed. So
this investigator that he had spoken to was the one
that was hired by Cool Breeze's team to do his

(29:14):
own investigation. Now we're going to spend a little bit
of time on this one, a little bit more, just
because he's the one who originally brought Rocky into the picture.
So he recalls how he was at the hospital that
night with his son. His son had had an asthma attack.
He didn't have a car, so he gets a ride
they go to the hospital. After he gets picked up

(29:35):
from the hospital, he and the people he's with, they
go drop one person off. They all go to what
they called the Iranian Store to pick up some alcohol.
It's just a little corner store that sells liquor, wine, whatever.
At this point, he says, they're stopped at a stoplight
right outside Miss Tucker's house, going east. So remember that

(29:57):
tea that we drew and miss this Thiss Talcker's house
is to the right of him. So we have another
exchange here. I will be the attorney's and Jen will
be Tyrone Elliott. While you were sitting there waiting on
the light, did you see anything unusual or out of
the ordinary that caught your attention?

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, I saw a guy with what I thought at
the time was a stereo component or something like that.
He got my attention because of the way he was acting.
He was looking all around and acting suspicious. That's what
caught my attention. I told Tanisha, I said, I bet
he stole that thing, and Tanisha hollered out of the car.
I bet you stole that thing. And the guy trotted

(30:37):
across the street and over by a bush, and after
that I didn't see him again. We went to the
store and got to the store and the store was closed.
So we came back and I told Larry, I said,
I'll get the beer from the bootlegger. This is going
to be referring to Annie Crittinton's house. What time would
this have been? Do you know what time the store closed?

(30:59):
The store closed midnight, So note the store was closed
when they got there according to this story, which means
it would have been sometime after midnight. If the store
closes at midnight, we know the nine to one to
one call came in at twelve nineteen, so technically this
does fit the timeline. He is basically saying, I saw
this person with the VCR right after the murder, leaving

(31:21):
Miss Tucker's house. He's acting shady, He's crossing the street,
he's looking all around, and he goes and he hides
behind a bush. He had said originally that they left
the hospital around eleven o'clock. However, they present the hospital
records which shows that they were discharged from the hospital
at about nine thirty.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
So if they went basically straight to this area according
to his story, it would not have been after midnight.
So did he forget some things that happened in between?
Did he see Rocky earlier? Did he see someone else?
Did he not see anyone at all? Those are the questions.
So we're going to pick back up with the exchange again.

(32:01):
I'm the attorney. While you were there, you said you
saw a fellow come in with a VCR on Molten Street. Yes, sir,
did you know this fellow? I didn't know him at
the time.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Do you remember anything about how this fellow was dressed. Yeah,
he had on some dark something similar to this. But
I got on here.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
Had he changed any type of clothing from the time
you saw him on Molten until you saw him down here?
So real quick, they're saying, remember they said that they're
gonna drive to the shothouse, and so they're saying, Hey,
this guy actually showed up at the shothouse too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
When I saw him at the bootleggers, he had his
jacket off and he had the VCR in the jacket.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Do you mean he had his jacket off or he
had the VCR stuck under the jacket.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
He had his jacket off and the VCR under it.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
What was he wearing under his jacket?

Speaker 1 (32:50):
I didn't pay any attention to.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
That light dark medium color.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
It was dark.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Did he have any kind of hat on or anything?

Speaker 1 (32:58):
I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Do you know Anthony Ballentine?

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (33:02):
I do. Was this fellow you saw Anthony Ballentine?

Speaker 1 (33:05):
No, it wasn't. Would you describe this fellow for us
that you saw, Yes, sir, he was short and stocky,
white man or black man, black man, tyrone.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
Can you identify that person?

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yes, I can.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Is he here in the courtroom today?

Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yes he is. This question goes on and he goes
on to point Rocky out in the courtroom, saying that
Rocky was the man he saw. Now let's stop for
a second and talk about this because a few things
do stand out. Now he recalls the VCR was wrapped
in a man's jacket. Now, Vicky Bolton said the opposite.

(33:42):
It does highlight problems with eyewitness testimony. Both of the
past two testimonies, Vicki and Tyrone used the same exact
initial description of the man they saw. They both said short,
they both said stocky. Now this was before they said
anything else about race or anything. And this is interesting
because it's the exact same verbiage Miss Tucker used to

(34:05):
describe her attacker, and it's the theme we will continue
to see, not similar, the exact same verbiage. So it's
almost like they were coached.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Not only that, since that is the description the victims gave,
that is the description that was in the news. Then
on cross examination, this exchange occurs. Now, this guy that
you saw leaving from the area of Ludy may Tucker's house,
was he was wearing dark clothing?

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah, that's what I said.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
Was he wearing a hat of any kind?

Speaker 1 (34:43):
I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Do you recall anything else? Out of the ordinary or
anything that sticks out in your mind about the way
he was dressed.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
No.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Was all of his clothing dark.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
As far as I can see, I didn't pay attention
all that much.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Was his coat off?

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah, it was off.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
A shirt? Did he have on?

Speaker 1 (35:01):
I didn't pay no attention to what he had on.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Do you have any idea Do you know if it
was a white shirt or anything?

Speaker 1 (35:09):
No?

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Did you notice anything about the color at all? No?
Did you notice any bloodstains on his shirt?

Speaker 1 (35:15):
No?

Speaker 2 (35:16):
So a few more things here. He can't recall the clothing.
You can't recall if there was a hat or blood.
At first, you say, I don't know what color? It
was light, medium, or dark? Then you say dark. He's
not paying attention all that much. He says it twice.
He says, I didn't pay all that much attention. Then
again says, I didn't pay no attention to what he
had on, but you could tell it was Rocky. So

(35:39):
not only that, he admitted that he didn't even know
Rocky at the time, and he had never seen him before.
Because when they say did you know the person you saw,
he says no. Not At that time, he's saying, I
didn't realize who he was until later, So you don't
know the guy you can't identify. You said you didn't
pay a whole lot of attention, but you can without
certainty say it was Rocky.

Speaker 1 (35:59):
You didn't even go to the police into a month later.
As his testimony goes on, he says his brother in
law is a police officer, and he told his brother
in law about the exchange that night after his brother
in law mentioned the VCR being stolen from Miss Tucker's house.
But you wait a month. He does say that investigators

(36:19):
asked him about it, but they didn't take a statement.
Don't know if that's true or not, because we can't
confirm that part, and we have a lot of court documentation,
we have a lot of police documentation.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Yeah, we don't know if they actually questioned him or not.
But point being, he did not come forward with this.
He did not reach out to the police and say
I know something. He did not talk to an investigator
and say I know something until a month later. And yeah,
important to note it was when Coolbree's investigator found him
and he found out about the five thousand dollars award.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
M Plus Tyrone worked with Coolbreez's dad. There is a
familiar connection right there.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
So then they start to ask him about that statement
that he did make a month later. Again, I am
still the attorneys look at it as long as you need,
but I need to know if you agree that is
the statement you gave to the police and you signed
at the police department. Yes, somebody else wrote it out
for you, didn't they write? But you told them what

(37:20):
to write down.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yes, I did.

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Were you telling them the truth?

Speaker 1 (37:25):
Yes? I was telling the truth.

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Let's start here. Look at the bottom of page two. Now,
you testified a moment ago that the guy was short
and stocky, and that's what you say in the statement.
The guy was short and stocky and darker than I am. Yes,
you say he had on a cap, dark colored clothes
and a jacket too. Yes, so you do remember you
did say he had on a cap at that time,

(37:49):
didn't you.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, that's in there.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Well do you remember it now at all? So as
it goes on later, we're picking up a little bit.
For they're on who first told you about the reward
that the governor.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Offered in this case? Jerry McDaniel, What did he tell
you had been offered. He didn't say what had been offered.
He said he was going to check to see if
there anything was offered on the case.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Jerry McDaniel, an investigator for Cool Breezevalentine's lawyer, told you
that there was a reward in this case.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
He told me he thought there was a reward. He
was going to check and see. He never told me.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Do you remember talking with Jerry McDaniel, Cool Breeze Valentine's investigator, Yeah,
I do. Do you remember telling him all this happened
around eleven o'clock PM?

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, I wasn't sure what time it was.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
So there's that eleven o'clock PM saying we left the hospital,
went out there, saw the guy cross in the street.
But then the hospital record show nine point thirty. So
next we have Chris Garth. Her real name is Crystal.
She goes by Chris, and she was with Tyrone Elliott
and his crew that night, and her story mostly lines

(39:03):
up as far as being at the stoplight seeing the
man on the other side of the road. Now she
was driving, so we'll stick with me being the investigator. Now,
jen is Chris, can you describe you say, the fellow
you saw the first time was the same fellow you
saw the second time?

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Uh huh.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
And they're talking about at the shothouse that second time.
Can you describe what he looked like? All I know
is he was short and stalky, black man or white man?

Speaker 1 (39:32):
Black man.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Now do you believe you would be able to identify
that fellow you saw out there?

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Uh huh?

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Is he here in court today? Yeah, if you would
point him out to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury.

Speaker 1 (39:46):
Now she does identify a rocky here we see a
short and stalky again. Also, keep in mind this is
all after midnight. It is dark. She says she saw
a man from the light, from the traffic light. Now
she is in the car. It's not like they were
right up beside him. She was the one driving. So

(40:09):
think about you driving along a busy straight you're parked
at a red light, and somebody away from the street
you see crunched over and dark clothing with what looks
like a stereo component under your hand. Then someone from
your car yells, I bet you stole that, didn't you,

(40:30):
and then he stashes it in a bush.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
So, speaking of short and stocky, because this is the
third time that we've heard those exact words. How tall
was Rocky Myers, Well, it depends on who you ask,
good question. So according to the Department of Correction site,
he is five foot nine, and according to the autopsy,
Missus Tucker was five foot five. So one thing that

(40:54):
popped into my head is would she have identified him
as short? Maybe maybe not. You can and still know
if someone is short for their size, but that's a
little bit taller than she was. However, Rocky says he's
five foot six. His son says he was close to
the same height as Breeze, who was either five ten

(41:17):
or five eleven, which would sound closer to that five
foot nine. However, again, there are court documents that say
he's five foot two.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
So just for full disclosure, we have five two, five nine,
five six. I am five three, so I'm a touch
shorter than Tucker. If a man is five six and taller,
I'm not gonna call him short and stocky, because he

(41:49):
is gonna have to be about my height, maybe an
inch or two more than me. So anything about five
five and below I would call short and stocky.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Yeah, Like, I'm four foot eleven and my definition of
short is very different. Even if I see a male.
You know, for example, my brother is about five foot nine.
Some people call him short. He is not short to me,
he seems very average. But I mean, this is a
massive height discrepancy. So it's interesting to me that the

(42:19):
only time we see him mentioned that short the five
foot two is on documents referring to the case specifically.
And again that's just an observation. I don't know how
they measured him, but it's only on the documents actually
related to the case that it says it, which is
just kind of weird.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Now, next is Tanisha Irving, who was also with them.
She is going up on the stand. I'm going to
be Tanisha and Lindsay's going to be the attorney again.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Now, can you describe for us what this fellow looked like?
Was he white or black?

Speaker 1 (42:50):
He was a black man.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
He was short and stocky, and I believe you previously
told the police you couldn't identify him.

Speaker 1 (42:56):
Is that right? Uh huh?

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Do you know Anthony Valentine or Cool Breeze not personally?
Were you shown a photograph of him?

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Uh? Huh?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Can you tell us whether or not the man you
saw was mister Ballentine, No, can you tell us or
was it not him? It was not him, and you
cannot tell the jury that this is the man you saw,
can you? And he's referring to Rocky at this point.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
No.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
So we've talked before about how using pictures is problematic.
Think back to our delayed Justice series. There's so many
variables that go into identifying someone. You've got lighting, clothing,
and this is what she used to identify cool Breeze.
So they say, was it this man and she says no,
But she also can't say that it was Rocky. Now

(43:44):
keep in mind, she's the one who yelled out the
window at the man. She was on that side of
the car. She rolled her window down. She couldn't even
tell who she was yelling at, so how could everyone else.
She actually looked at this guy and yelled at him.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Not to mention, they were all with the guy who
came forward once the reward was offered. Now let's talk
about that just a touch more. There are several people
in this car. They all remember yelling out the window.
That makes it more likely that it did happen. But
Rocky had no reason to be in that area with

(44:23):
the VCR the alley was right behind his house. The
alley ran straight up to the shothouse. He never would
have had been on that corner. Even if he had
killed Miss Tucker and took the VCR from the house,
he would have gone straight across. All he had to

(44:44):
do was walk across the street.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
So basically what they're saying, and we'll get into it
more in a little bit, and it may even actually
be in the next episode. I'm losing drack at this point.
So we know that Rocky's house is in that top
right quadrant, Miss Tucker is a in the bottom right,
and the floorist is over in the top left, with
Sixth Street running right down the middle. They say that

(45:08):
they are driving east, so Tanisha is facing she's on
the side of Miss Tucker's house. They see this guy
going from Miss Tucker's house across the street and running
to cross over to where the florist is on the
other side of Rocky's house. That has Rocky going down

(45:30):
main roads when there is an alley, and this is
there's two separate alleys, so bear with us here. Miss
Tucker's house has an alley that starts kind of in
her driveway and goes south and then there is an
alley behind Rocky's house that kind of goes up towards sixth,
So he could have gone through Miss Tucker's alley driveway

(45:55):
straight across to the alley behind his house and never
bien on this main intersection corner. It makes no sense.
If you just killed someone, stole something, possibly have blood
on you, why are you going to go out underneath
the street light, cross over to the florist and go
up the main road.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Yeah, it makes no sense why somebody who would be
possibly covered in a victim's blood run down the street
that has street lights. You have traffic and to be seen.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Now, he did have to cross, He still had to cross,
but he didn't have to cross right at that light,
which is right where the Florist is. He did not
have to cross right there.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Exactly next up is Leon Madden. Now this is Butch.
Now important note about Butch. There's reason to believe that
he may have been a confidential informant. This type of
thing is very hard to find out and confirmed. Believe me.
We've tried several avenues several.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Times, and so have Rocky's lawyer and investgater.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
And there are multiple people who said he was.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Well. This is interesting though, because if you think back
to the night of the crime, officer Tilly was patrolling
that area. He said he was out on a suspected
drug call and that's why he was so close to
Miss Tucker's house. Well, remember he said I found nothing
and I was wrapping up. Now we know for a
fact that Butch was out operating that night. We know

(47:26):
that they were all out there. There's people out on
the porch. Is that relevant? Maybe? Maybe not.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
Also, the officer wrote out his statement as well with Butch. Now,
Butch tells how the police were looking for him once
Percy brought the VCR. So he went up to the
police station. I mean, this man had guts or did
he have protection for being a CI. He tells them
immediately that it was somebody named Rocky. He didn't know

(47:56):
if Rocky was his first name or if it was
his street name, and he didn't know him well and
he had only met him the day before. So again
we're going into the questioning. Lindsay's going to be the
attorney and I'm going to be Butch, the drug dealer.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
At some point, did you tell the police that cool
Breeze sold you the VCR. Nope, that he gave you
the VCR.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
No.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
Did the police at one time believe Valentine gave you
the VCR.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Yes, by me saying it wasn't Breeze, it was Rocky
that gave me the VCR. They said this statement that
Willy Reese gave them. They figured I was lying.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
You told them that Rocky sold it to you, But
Willy Reese told them that cool Breeze sold it to you.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Right. The reason he did that is because he got
into an argument that night some chump change money. I
guess that's why Willy Reese said he did. He was
real upset about it. He was mad at Rocky. He
was mad at Breeze.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
The police were leaning on you when you were telling
them it was Rocky because he was telling them that
it was Breeze.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
Right. It was like three or four page statement and
that he had made. They kept saying, Leon, you're lying
and protecting him because it wasn't Rocky. And I said,
you gotta believe what you want. I'm telling you the truth.
I can't make you believe me.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Did they finally get you to sign a statement saying
it was Breeze, Yes, sir, you did, Yes, sir, I
did so. Another thing that Butch goes on to say
is that both Cool Breeze and Rocky tried to buy
Crack on credit that night, and he says, look, Breeze
knew better. Breeze had used collateral before and he knew that.

(49:32):
Butch is not going to do credit. Rocky didn't. He
had known Rocky for a very long time, and he
told Rocky that collateral was an option, but credit was not.
Both men left, and both men came back several times
that evening. So then he recalls when Rocky came in
and sold the VCR again, I'm the attorneys. Okay, Rocky

(49:55):
had dark clothing on.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, it was dark.

Speaker 2 (49:58):
When you say Rocky traded you the VC, did you
see whether or not he was bleeding?

Speaker 1 (50:02):
No?

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Was he bleeding?

Speaker 1 (50:05):
I didn't notice any blood or nothing.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
Did he in any way indicate to you that he
had been injured?

Speaker 1 (50:10):
No, in a fight? No?

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Did you notice any blood on his clothing?

Speaker 1 (50:15):
No?

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Did he complain to you about pain?

Speaker 1 (50:18):
No.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
So then Butch has people put the VCR away. He says,
go put it in the back, take this thing away.
He leaves and closed up shop not too terribly long
after that. So now let's kind of recap what we've
heard tonight.

Speaker 1 (50:30):
Rocky admits selling the VCR, which he says he found
in the alley behind his house. Remember when Angela Acklin
first called police, she originally saw Breeze in that very alley,
an ali known for being a dump spot. If police
were starting to surround the area, could Breeze have dropped

(50:52):
it there and Rocky come through and grabbed it. After
conflicting statements about the man on the side of the road,
they saw someone holding something and they were yelling at
the window at him, but other details vary.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
One of the consistent things, though, is that this person
who they are saying is Rocky, well two out of
three of them are. The third one can't identify him.
They say he's wearing dark clothing and no one noticed
any blood or injuries. What's interesting here is, though, don't
know if you guys have picked up on this yet.
They say, we saw this guy leaving Miss Tucker's house.

(51:28):
We saw him walking crossing the street to go up
to the shot house. We see him at the shothouse.
He's wearing dark clothing. Well, both victims said that the
killer was wearing a white shirt. So how the heck
do you explain this? Are they saying that Rocky just
magically changed clothes on his way out of the house,

(51:48):
because again they're saying, we saw him leaving. And this
goes for Tyrone Elliott two, who said he saw him
leaving the house. Now keep in mind, they say they
did see him at Butcher's that night, so it is
possible that they saw his clothing at Butch's. And it
kind of is one of those things where in your
mind you remember that clothing. They remember him selling the VCR.

(52:09):
They're like, oh, well, most people don't do credit, but hey,
so they remember him for some reason, and maybe it
gets applied elsewhere, if that makes sense. But again, the
reward money, this is the same guy who was offered
the reward money, and these are the same group of
people who are using the exact words short and stocky. Now,

(52:29):
there's a lot of words you can use to describe
someone who's short and stocky. They're heavy, solid, chunky, small,
vertically challenged. I mean, there's so many different things you
can say and for them all to match up perfectly
to what the victims said, which was in the newspapers,
really stands out to me.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
One thing to mention, and this is just purely a
question to think about. If Butch was a CI, would
that give the place extra pool with him? It wouldn't
be hard to say, tell us what we want to hear,
or we're going to peg you for everything we know
you've done. Not to mention, if Roadrunner is Butcher's right

(53:09):
hand man, it wouldn't be hard to sway him either.
So the police have a hook into Butch if they
are working with others thinking rightfully wrongfully, that Rocky's their guy,
because now they have what they think is an independent
person coming in and identifying they're going to lean on

(53:30):
him to turn Roadrunner.

Speaker 2 (53:32):
And just to explain again, we do have international listeners
confidential informant. If you're not familiar, if you know someone's
doing something, you can kind of say, hey, you need
to be the lookout for us. You're a drug dealer,
We need to know who all the other people are.
We will focus on them if you will give us
the information and you'll be in the clear. It's kind
of a snitches get stitches thing. You know you're you're

(53:54):
kind of giving people up in exchange for you won't
be the one you're you're protected.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
Yeah, you go after the middle fish to get the
bigger fish, and you clean up with the smaller fish,
but you leave that middle fish there so they can
give you more areas to fish in. If that makes
more sense. Yes, Also, the police got the VCR from Percy.
It matches, but they never went back to search the

(54:19):
house to see if there was anything more, like if
there was more than one VCR, if there were two VCRs,
because what if Rocky does find a VCR, the killer
brings a VCR. So now we have two VCRs and
they and they get the one they think is the
murder and they send it over and the one that

(54:40):
Rocky sold could still be in the house.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
So this is a theory that has been out there,
and we've talked about it with Tracy, who y'all know
sent us the case. And at first I was like,
it's possible. I don't think it's likely, But there is
one thing that made me kind of open my mind
to this. At first, I was like, well, Percy was
at the house, why wouldn't she have shown him all

(55:04):
the VCRs. Well, if we look back to that conversation
when Percy says, I was at my sister's house. We
were talking about the crime. I told them I talked
to police, and I told them that the police were
looking for an RCA VCR. And she goes an RCA
VCR and he goes, yeah, and she goes, come here,

(55:24):
and they go and they look at it and it's
an RCA VCR. It is technically possible that he said
RCA from the start. She knew that, let's say in
this theory that we're going with temporarily, that there were
more than one, but she knows one of them is RCA,
So she's going to show him the RCAVCR. She's not

(55:46):
showing him the whatever the Toshibo was, Tony whatever, because
he didn't say that. So that's what kind of opened
my mind to that. When you go back and look at.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
It, let's just say there is not two VCRs, that
there's one VCR. We have the killer identified, short, stocky,
black male, white T shirt. We have people verifying that
they saw this person leave, the people in the car
with Tyrone and the girls yelling at this guy. He

(56:17):
goes and stashes the VCR in the alley because now
he's been seen.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
They say, he goes to a bush.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Yeah, Rocky's walking along in the alleyway to go towards
the shothouse, sees it because it's right across the street,
picks it up, looks around. Okay, no one's here. Now
I have my collateral.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
And here's another point to bring up as well. The
nine to one to one call comes in at twelve nineteen.
We know that that's on record, so the killer and
we are just going to pretend that it's Rocky for this,
because that's who they say that they identified. Let's say
that they go to the Iranian store as they call.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
It's closed closed.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
It's twelve o'clock. Immediately they head for the shot house.
The Iranian Store is only a few minutes away. We've
looked at it on the map. It's only a few
blocks away. Rocky lives a few yards away from Miss Tucker.
So if they get there before the police get there.
Let's say it some time between twelve oh five and

(57:23):
twelve fifteen, Rocky lives right across the street. Once he
committed the crime, If he were the one who did it,
once he committed the crime, it would have taken him
about thirty seconds to get to his house.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Or if he just committed a crime and went straight
to the shothouse.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Why would you do that?

Speaker 1 (57:43):
That's what they were saying that they're saying, Yeah, whoever
committed this murder went straight to this shothouse to collect
and trade on collateral. But the thing is, why would
he hang around the streets for fifteen additional minutes He
could be seen by passing cars. And remember the police

(58:05):
officer Tilly did not see any suspects when he pulled
up to the house. No one was around the house.
So for the killer to have killed Miss Tucker leaves
the house, hang around the street, let Tyrone and his
friend see him, and then decides to go to the shothouse.

(58:27):
That is not a sequence of events that makes sense
for somebody who lives across the street.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Because and my point in bringing up that he lives
across the street is if the man just committed a murder,
go change your clothes, it makes no sense. But that
timeline is weird too, because according to miss Dutton, it
was shortly after midnight. And I guess it's just with
where the store is that they went to and the
time they came back down. Your killer would have been

(58:55):
leaving closer to the twelve nineteen range because the call
was made as soon as the killer left the house,
so somewhere twelve fifteen ish, but they were at their
Iranian store a few minutes after twelve. So it's just
there's just a lot of questions starting to come up.
We are going to stop here. We are about halfway

(59:18):
through the court testimony and the trial. Next we're going
to talk a little bit about some forensics or lack thereof.
There's still a lot more to come, many many many
more dots to connect, and this is just the beginning,
my friends.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
But Lindsay and I are going to take you to
Decatur and we are going to walk these steps and
time it ourselves and try to recreate this. So we
have got so much more on its way. We've got
interviews with this lawyer, We've got letters from Rocky, so
we're getting this story from every single source possible. Now,

(59:58):
we did reach out to John on May's multiple times, asking,
you know, can he talk with us. He has not
yet responded, but if he does respond, we will definitely
get that interview out to you guys too.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
A few quick things at the end of the next episode,
we plan to give you guys the details for writing
letters or whatever you would like to do to get involved.
We're ironing out the last fine details, but I think
we're about there, so we'll have that in the next one.
Also March thirty first, and we are going to ask
for forgiveness from our Patreon supporters, but in lieu of

(01:00:36):
doing our Patreon live feed this month. This case is
such a big deal to us that we are going
to open it up to everyone because, as you are
quickly learning, there are a lot of people involved, a
lot of changing stories, lots of dots to connect. I
currently have a map drawn out on a dry erase
board in my office which I showed Jen earlier, and

(01:00:56):
just it's like old school style, you know, really connecting
the dots. So I'm sure if you guys are like us,
you're gonna get people confused. You may have questions, you
may have theories we haven't thought of, and so we
would love to sit down as a group and discuss that.
Don't know at this point if anyone will be with us.
It depends on what program we decide to use. Still

(01:01:18):
working all that out, but it will be March thirty. First,
what else, I feel like there's stuff we're forgetting, guys.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
There is some really great discussions going on right now
in our Facebook group, So come on over join the
Facebook group. Don't forget you do have to answer the
questions or we will decline you instantly without remorse. And
also don't forget to write and review and to become
a Patreon go to patreon dot com slash Carpus Delicti,

(01:01:46):
and then you're gonna be able to get a part
of our Patreon only feeds. We do a lot of
cool stuff for our patreons. We have a live feed
every month that it's just for them. Unfortunately, this month
it's gonna be an open group.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
If we were going to ask you, our heart is
in the right place where you're not trying to short you, guys,
And maybe we'll do something else down the road to
make up for it. But we actually.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
May put a lot of some of the materials that
we're looking at court materials on patreons so you can
actually see it too, And I think that would probably
be reason enough to join Patreon, especially if you get
to see the court documents and you get to see
the maps that we're looking at, yeah, pictures and whatever
else we come up with.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
But yeah, Jen has been diligently writing to Rocky. He
has responded a few times now and it's it's sweet
because he said that he has not written in years.
He has not written a letter in years. He doesn't
like to particularly, but he said that he did decide

(01:02:50):
to write us, and we are honored that that he
did choose to respond.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
And oh and I will say this, someone in my
family does struggle with reading due to dyslexia and autism.
And I was telling him. I was like, I'm talking
to this man right now who who struggled just like you.
And look at this long letter he wrote me. He
wrote me three pages. You know, you know, if he
can overcome this, I think you can too. And it

(01:03:18):
inspired this member of my family.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Yeah, and he's been pretty positive with us and taught
us a few lessons, you know, about our daily lives.
Like we said in the last one, I was having
a bad day and he sends this letter saying, Oh,
the world is crazy. Just endure and I'm like, wait
a minute, you know, just stuff like that. So much
more to come.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Yes, we haven't even gotten to the appeals. We haven't
gotten to so much of this story, so y'all stay
tuned for future chapters. We will continue on with the
Sweet Home, Alabama series after we finish up Rocky story
wrote to Redemption. A side note, Rocky did recommend a story.

(01:03:59):
We will be doing that one next and then we
have a few Patreon ones that people have supplied us,
so be on the lookout for those two. Absolutely, But
until then, Felicia's gonna go wash your hands, wear a mask,
maybe two, and you know what, maybe not, depending what
stay she lives in. We don't know, but.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
Yeah, where does Felicia live anyway, We don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:20):
But do the best for you and yours. But until then,
Bye bye.

Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
I'm Mike Morphor and I've been researching the Zodiac case
for years. Zodiac, just the name, it sounds sinister. It
inspires fear. The fact that a serial killer would give
himself this moniker is disturbing. He would go on to
taunt police by sending letters and codes to newspapers for years,
and the attacks they were something else altogether. If you

(01:04:48):
were a young couple in a secluded area, you could
easily be a target and it wasn't just shootings on
Dark Lover's leans. Zodiac would even attack with a knife
in broad daylight while wearing an executioners style hood. After
a while, Zodiac changed tactics and even loan cab drivers
weren't safe. The Zodiac Killer terrorized the San Francisco Bay

(01:05:09):
area and then vanished, but he left a lot of
clues behind along the way, clues that we're going to
examine closely on the new podcast Zodiac Speaking. New episodes
of Zodiac Speaking come out every other Saturday starting March thirteenth,
twenty twenty one. Subscribe today wherever you listen to podcasts
so you don't miss a single episode.

All Episodes

Robin "Rocky" Myers: Road to Redemption Ch. 2 - The VCR

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

The Breakfast Club

Fudd Around And Find Out

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Robin "Rocky" Myers: Road to Redemption Ch. 2 - The VCR