S1E2 || Drones, Species and our Collective Consciousness

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
That doesn't look like a drone, right that looks like
a sprat show, dude, because I don't want to ride
about it.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Book, There's two you got to get out of here.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
There's three right.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
There, right now.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
Our skies are filled with questions.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Drones, hundreds of them, are invading some of the most
secure airspaces in the world, from the East Coast to
our military complexes. Reports are flooding in daily amid the chaos, fires, bombings, protest.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
It's easy to dismiss.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
These sightings as just another headline and are already overwhelming
news cycle.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
These are all drones in the sky, seven right here.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
But what if these drones, these phenomena are pointing to
something much bigger, something we can no longer ignore. Lou Elizondo,
head of the Pentagon's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, has
dedicated years to understanding what's happening in our skies. In
our conversation here reveals what he believes to be the

(01:11):
bigger picture, not just drones, not just unidentified craft, but
a shift in our understanding of life itself. Today, we
discussed that twenty twenty five might drop biggest bombshell yet
the amount of different species proven by the US government,
and the threat of reverse engineering craft from the crash
retrieval programs. This isn't just a story about technology or

(01:33):
national security. It's a story about us, our place in
the universe, our capacity for growth.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
And the evolution of human consciousness.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Are these phenomenon a threat or are they just a
wake up call to something greater?

Speaker 1 (01:53):
All right, Lou, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Thank you so much for having me, Melissa. I appreciate
it very much. In a big fake you to your
wonderful audience. I'm doing good, you know. I always say
I'm doing better than I deserve. There's an old army
saying any day above grounds a good day, and certainly
when you're my age, that becomes more and more true
as you get older and older.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
I suppose you have to think about that stuff a lot.
I mean, you're kind of in the limelight of anything
uap UFO, anything historical, and anything that's coming out right now.
So that's got to be a lot of pressure for
you to be under that gun, because there's a lot
of people right now, especially in America and the world,
wanting to know what is going on out there.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, sure, Well let me if I can address that.
Is there pressure on me? Sure? But pressure is relative, right.
I had a good buddy of mine, he was a
third of the seventh Special Forces guy and he used
to have this saying, he said, look, I only get
stressed when I'm being shot at, which is true, right,
I kind of put things into perspective. Is there a
lot of pressure, Yeah, but it's relevant to anybody who's

(03:01):
been a parent will tell you the toughest job in
the world is being a father or mother. So I
have two wonderful daughters now all grown up, so that
that when I look at, you know, pressure and compared
to what I'm dealing with now, not quite the same thing.
But I do appreciate it. Yeah, there's you know, there's
there's there's times where I feel it. You know, people

(03:22):
want answers and I want to give it to them.
But as I've said before, there's a process on how
we do this, and that process needs to be respected
in my opinion. Anyways, if we really want to get
to the truth, and get to the truth in a
in a constructive manner, not destructive manner. And I can
talk about that a little later. If you like on

(03:43):
what I mean by that. But I'm doing great. Thanks,
How are you doing?

Speaker 1 (03:47):
I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Buried in. I know
the New Jersey thing is kind of over. It was
super hot and heavy all through Christmas there, but there's
still a lot of questions.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Well, it's not over. We're still dealing with this all
over the world right now. The UK is asking for
US participation at several military bases where these drones are
being encountered. They're just not being reported as much because
the government has come out with a blanket statement saying
there's nothing to fear and these are all legally operated drones.
The bottom line is that's not the case, and these

(04:18):
incidents are continuing to occur. They're just not being reported
as much because there's a lot of other things being
distracted right in the news. You've got unfortunately the bombers
had a current in Las Vegas and New Orleans. You've
got a new presidential administration coming in. You've got you know,
some final efforts being done by the current administration. You
still have the Russia issues going on right now in Ukraine.

(04:42):
You've got China and the you know, the South China Sea,
so there's there's a lot of distraction right now for
the American public. Plus you have potentially a new type
of pandemic emerging out of China right now, which is
a human type virus, so we don't know a lot
about that. So that's taking a lot of I think,
a lot of the bandwidth away from the conversation of

(05:05):
drones for now. But make no mistake, it's going to
come back, just like it did back in twenty nineteen
and twenty twenty Nebraska and Colorado and Arkansas. But we
had the droning persons there just like we have them
right now over in Europe, like we have them right
now over the United States.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
So do you think this is all pretty strategic then?
I Mean, one of the things that I noticed from
watching all the footage, different things from ring cams to
people filming on the beach or you know, any kind
of footage that was gathered, is there seems to be
something that's terrestrial engaging with something that does not seem
to act terrestrial. So do you think that there is

(05:39):
something going on between something that's earth bound and something
that's of unknown origin that's happening at all these bases
and all these sites, because I think that's part of
the confusion too. Besides all of these events that distract
people from from staying on course and asking the right questions,
we also get flood with different information every time. Right,

(06:02):
there's something that's so unusual. Mass was something that looks
very terrestrial. So what do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (06:09):
Well, I think there's a conflation of issues. First of all,
there are real drones and people see them all the time,
and people record them, and people confuse them for things,
and this is normal we've been dealing with ever since
the proliferation of drone technology really made it into the
hands of civilians. So this is happening all the time.
There's even hobbyists I will put string led lights on

(06:30):
them and do all sorts of interesting things to whether
they're doing some sort of performance or artwork or in
some cases trying to create a hoax. Right, So you're
only limited by your imagination, But there's also you're only
limited by technology. So let's talk about the drone issue
for a minute. People are reporting drone small sized quad copters,

(06:53):
hearing the worrying sound of the engines, But then you
also have reports that kind of lie outside that paradigm.
They report in some cases drones, if you want to
call them a drone, large cubes and different shapes, geometric shapes,
flying in some cases large and maybe larger than an suv,
and they're making no sound at all, and in fact,

(07:14):
some of these seem to be coming out of the
water or perhaps doing things that most drones don't do,
for example, extended loiter time. Instead of a few minutes
fifteen to twenty minutes, they're staying a loft for five, six, seven,
eight hours and in some cases traversing tens, if not
hundreds of miles, So that's a little bit different than
a normal drone. And then you have some reports, preliminary

(07:35):
reports indicating that perhaps some of these drones have a
counter drone capability, meaning if we launch a drone to
try to go and what we call prosecute the target
or look at the target in this case another drone,
a mysterious drone, that drone drops out of the sky
and is disabled, and then the drone that we were

(07:56):
trying to chase disappears into quote unquote thin air. So
that doesn't really sound like any drone that we're used
to dealing with, does it. So what we've been dealing
with is a conflation of issues. And then of course
the more people are aware of the issue, the more
people are going to be looking to the skies. Just
like starlink, Right, how many times are Starlink satellites the constellation,

(08:17):
the linear constellation of starlink misconstrued for being anomalous, right,
or UAP or something like that, or something nefarious. But
you know, once you understand how drones operate, a lot
of people don't know this. I actually had a pretty
significant drone job back in the mid to late nineties.

(08:37):
I was working as a young special agent. And this
is really in the beginning of drones technology. In fact,
we didn't even call them drones. We didn't call them UAVs.
We call them I'm sorry, uass, we call them UAVs
unmanned aerial vehicles. And they included basically these rudimentary platforms.

(08:58):
Think of a seven let's say, Assessina that's been tricked out,
modified and made into a giant remote control airplane. So
the Army had several programs. One was called the Pioneer
UAV program, which was a very small, little kind of
portable device. Then you had a fixed wing. Then you
have something called the Hunter UAV, which was a larger

(09:20):
fixed wing, twin tail boom on the back with push
pull engines motogoozy engines, and it was a joint project
between Israel and the United States. And then you had
the Army's Dark Star program. The Dark Star program not
what you see in Tom Gun, you know, the Dark
Star that was popularized by none other than Tom Cruise,
but the real Dark Star, which was a low observable

(09:41):
Army drone that was designed some time ago, low visibility,
low observability, which was being tested at the time, which.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
Is totally different than what we have been observing. That's happening. Well,
we'll stick to New Jersey. There's lots of different activity happening,
but that is different than what we were observing. Correct.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, So you know, drones, like airplanes, are are bound
by the laws of physics, right, and you have let's
say this is a let's say this is a drone.
Let's say this is a plane, and let's say it's
a fixed wing. You have four fundamental forces. You have thrust, lift, drag,
and weight, and when you understand those, you can build
wings and create lifting bodies. But you have to have
propulsion to move right, so the moment you stop moving forward,

(10:27):
you start to fall and lose altitude. And so there's
very simple flight characteristics that all drones have to follow,
even even rotary wing or what we call propeller type drones.
So people have you know, a lot of them are
sitting in your closet. You as a journalist, I'm sure
are very familiar with the use of drones for aerial
photography and whatnot. But again they abide by the laws
of physics, meaning you are you have two types of

(10:52):
two types of fuel for the most part, for a drone,
you have a liquid propellant think of jpad or jet
fuel or gasoline that is used to come within a
combustion engine to provide power. Then you have electric and
electric is far more efficient. It doesn't weigh quite as
much as liquid fuel, you know, seven and a half

(11:13):
pounds per gallon. But you're limited by loidability, meaning how
long you can use that drone. So that's why most
commercial drones have a lifespan of around fifteen maybe twenty
minutes before you have to bring it back home and
recharge it. So there lies part of the problem. If
you have a fixed wing capability, you can fly much faster,

(11:33):
for much longer, and much further, but you don't have
the loiter ability. You can't just stop in the middle
of the air or the atmosphere like a quad copter.
You have to keep moving. You have to generate that
lift in order for it to fly. And then the
opposite is true with these other drones which are propeller
where you can stop and hover, but you don't really
have a tremendous speed or loiterability or longevity capability. And

(11:57):
so this is where it gets confusing because what we
are seeing now being reported in New Jersey and over
sense of military installations Maryland, Virginia, New York, Massachusetts, Florida, California, Oregon.
Uh and you name it right, even mar A Lago.
These things are doing differently. Yeah, they they're they're they

(12:19):
they they don't follow the normal They behave in some
cases like a fixed wing, but then all of a
sudden behave like a like a like a propeller or
a quad copter, almost like a hybrid if you would
type drow. Now there are hybrid They're very very rare.
There's not a whole lot of hybrid type drones. But
you might want to think of a hybrid drone as
being kind of like a V twenty two Ospray. An

(12:41):
ospray aircraft military aircraft flies both like a helicopter and
an airplane vertical takeoff and landing, and it has this
ability to change its its wings and the propellers for
the different types of flight. But that's a very complex
system and we really haven't perfected that much in the
drone world yet. There's a few kind of prototypes, but

(13:03):
still it's very murky. So when you have reports, let's
get to cut to the chase here. When you have
reports like the US Coast Guard where they're saying ten
of these things were pursuing one of their Coast Guard
ships way out to see think about that. Think about
what it would take to do that. Right, So you're
talking about deploying a device beyond horizon. So now most

(13:27):
drones use what they call line of sight radio frequency
to navigate and to be used for control. If you
want to shoot a beyond line of sight over the horizon,
you need a really sophisticated infrastructure to do that. You
need either an airborne platform to relay the signal or
you need a for example, a satellite to do that. Right,

(13:50):
So now you're kind of upping the game here. This
is not a used by an amateur, if you will,
or a civilian that's just kind of curious about things.
You're talking about some thing. It has to be well
manned with a lot of people, a lot of resources,
a lot of logistics support. Right, you've got to be
able to deploy these things. You've got to be able
to fly these things. You've got to be able to
recover these things. You've got to be able to maintain

(14:12):
these things. All the while you're trying to do it
in a way where you're hiding the sponsorship, meaning you're
hiding who is actually doing it. We have a very
sophisticated uh counter electronic capability, so if someone's flying these things,
it's pretty easy to pick up who is doing it
and trying delate where they're actually flying it from. But
that hasn't been the case now has it. It's been

(14:33):
a giant goose egg.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Adversaries could have had had this technology that this is
clearly yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, well that's one of the scenarios that that that
they do, and if they do, then we're in trouble
because we've been technologically lead fraud.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
If it's our technology, then we're doing a horrible job
coordinating amongst state, local, and tribal authorities because our federal
government doesn't even know what the hell's going on. And
then there's another possibility that what people are seeing is
actually a conflation of two different things. It was brought
up to me, and I want to make sure I'm
careful here because I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory,

(15:14):
but it is it is a theory, So let me
at least share with you that some people are actually
seeing UAP. And then what happens is that there's a
federal response and they send drones to go and again
I use the word prosecute, if you will, but surveil
these drones. And so then you have another group of
people that are actually looking at actual conventional drones, military

(15:36):
drone trying to figure out what these are. So that
is that is another theory, and then there's a few
other theories in between, the problem with being foreign sponsored
is really tough because you know, there's a let me
give you an example in the army, for every soldier
on the battlefield, there's about ten to twenty other soldiers

(15:59):
doing other jobs just so that soldier can fight, meaning
the person who is delivering the ammunition, the person who
is who is a doctor who's providing tree for you know,
medical combat support. You have the combat controllers, you have
the leadership, you have all these other people doing a
job leading to the point, you know, cooks even doing

(16:21):
their jobs so that one soldier can fight. The same
holds true with a drone. If you want to fly
a single drone, let's say from New York to I
don't know, let's say New York to Bermuda to the
island of Bermuda, right, beautiful island of Bermuda's that's a
fifteen hundred mile track. That's that's a pretty long trek,

(16:42):
you gotta that's so, think about what you would need
as a person to fly a single drone. Well, you
would need a lot of a lot of logistics. You
need a lot of extra power. You need people to
pick it up in the middle of the ocean and
to service it and to maintain it and then refuel it,
depending what type of fuel it's using, fly it again.
And then you have to have people stationed throughout the

(17:04):
way that can pick up the signal and then retransmit
it and relay it back down to the aircraft. It's
a huge endeavor and very expensive endeavor. And the fact
that we haven't seen any signatures at all of these
things from let's say, being deployed from a Chinese boat,
that is uh, that's that's that's problematic. Now. Is it
possible that the Chinese have figured out a way to

(17:26):
deploy these drones from a submarine and that's why we
don't see a ship? Absolutely? Yeah. Is it possible that
the Chinese have figured a way to fly a balloon,
let's say, over the Atlantic Ocean that has maybe one
hundred of these drones and it just drops periodically over
certain areas and it kind of does a predetermined grid
pattern or racetrack for for surveillance. That's possible too, a

(17:49):
little more sophisticated, a little more tough, but it is possible.
So right now, it's it's uh, it's kind of the
wild West for for for the drone istion and and
the US.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
I mean, I'm sure you've heard of this guy. He's
been poking around all the installations and the people in
this space I think Gary Nolan took interest in some
of his research. Patrick Jackson has a theory that there's
some kind of network of these spheres that is of
unknown origin, that are somehow communicating with each other and

(18:23):
they're here for some reason. His theory, this is just
his theory, not my theory. His theory is that they
are here, they're not terrestrial, and they are either protecting
us from other non human entities coming into our space
or they're kind of controlling things, because there seems to

(18:44):
be these lots of imagery and videos of these orbs
or spheres kind of circling around, you know, plant terrestrial planes, drones,
other types of craft. Whether they're terrestrial or not, I'm
not sure. But what do you think of that? Is
there any valid weight to that or is that just
so insane to think about?

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Well, it's certainly a theory, whether it's a valid theory,
let me let me if I can add a little
bit to that. We've been dealing with these these type
of orbs now for a very long time. In fact,
when I was at a tip at the Pentagon, we
had multiple multiple videos that unless you slowed down the
video frame by frame, these these things were completely invisible,

(19:27):
and yet when you slowed the film frame by frame,
you could find and actually track the object in and
around our our aircraft, our military aircraft. This happened very
common at air shows or during certain maneuvers and performances.
It's a lot more common than people think, and so
it's something we've been dealing with all the way back
from you know, World War two and the FOO fighters.

(19:50):
These orbs are are are seemed to be part of
the UAP discussion. Now how they specifically relate don't know.
Maybe could they be some sort of probe or unmanned
aerial vehicle like we use quad copters. It's just a
very small and yet efficient way to conduct reconnaissance. Sure

(20:13):
it makes sense. I mean, we send probes all the
time to Mars and the mood and all the you know,
the moods in our solar system, So why wouldn't something
that is intelligent as us, if not much more intelligent,
do the same thing. Right, You minimize risk, you minimize exposure,
and it's probably a little bit more efficient way to
do business. So I'm not necessarily against that. I just

(20:36):
I think with all the theories right, no matter how
good or how bad they are. We need more data,
We need more information if we want to pursue this
in a way where we can start getting the answers
we need. That's why I think it's important that this
new administration that's coming in understands that. I'm very optimistic
that many of the captive members actually do Several of

(20:59):
them have a stint of military backgrounds and experience, So
I'm pretty optimistic that I think twenty twenty five is
going to be a really good year for everybody as
it relates to this topic. Now, what that means as
far as any preconceived narratives, you know, what is it
that you're hoping to get out of this? I think
if we all suspend our own personal narratives for just

(21:20):
a little bit of what this could be and continue
to let this play out, I think the answer is
probably going to be self evident fairly soon.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
You know, You've been saying that for a while. I mean,
I remember you and I having a conversation maybe even
a year ago. You said you really were like things
are going to heat up. They're going to heat up
in the next six months and then over the year,
and they really have I mean, one of the things
that I like to bring attention to is there's always
patterns in things, whether it's human activity or even the

(21:49):
UAP activity. By the way, I really enjoyed your book,
immin it. I thought it was fantastic. I loved I
loved your backstore. I love how you got to where
you were and all of that. One of the things
that you said specifically in your book was you were
talking about how you spent a lot of time going

(22:09):
through all these historical libraries given your clearance, and that
history is where all the data is. And so I
want to bring attention to this. Just I'm focusing on
one area, but there's a lot going on all over
the world. With New Jersey. I mean, in the eighties,
we had the huge flap that happened in Hudson Valley

(22:31):
where we had like almost six thousand cases that were
reported who knows what wasn't reported, Where we had all
of a sudden, all sorts of weird stuff happening, everything
from huge craft to orbs, to people being abducted to
weird creatures, like everything you can possibly imagine. That was
in the eighties, And then I want to bring attention
to you talked about this in your book, actually the

(22:53):
Brazilian case in the seventies where that whole village, that
whole area was just being bombarded by all sorts of things,
and then now you have this. I'm focusing on the
East coast New Jersey, New York area, which just kind
of opened up, and there's all sorts of things that
people have been gathering and sending in and posting all

(23:13):
over the internet. You know, not just drones, but all
sorts of weird stuff happening. Do you think that this
is you know, I'm thinking in patterns here. It seems
that there are just like something opens up and then
all of a sudden, we have like a million different
cases that are happening in a selected area. What are

(23:34):
your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (23:35):
Well, you know, I go back to the old analogy
of hemans flying in helicopters over the Serengetti to track
a particular herd of wilderbeasts. And what typically happens is
the helicopter will fly, the herd will kind of scatter
because there's this crazy thing flying the sky, making noise

(23:58):
and scaring the heck out of all the animals, and
so they kind of run in a panic, and one
sharp shooter in a helicopter with this tranquilizer gun gets
a good shot and and you know, shoots one in
the butt and down it goes, right, And what happens
and the team of scientists come out and they start
taking drawing blood and taking measurements to see the health
of the herd and the reproductive processes and their dietary sustenance.

(24:24):
Is that is everything? Is it healthy? Right? And then
they leave, And then what happens later, maybe half an
hour later, the wilderbeast kind of wakes up and wanders
over to the watering hole with the rest of the
wilder beasts and maybe scratches his button and says, man,
this craziest thing happened. Man, this this thing came out
of the sky and all of a sudden, next thing
I knew these things were coming down and touching me.
And all I know now is my butt hurts. Right,

(24:47):
And think about that perspective from all the other animals
on the SERENGETI right, imagine what the cheat is seeing,
and imagine what the what the lemurs see, well, not
the lemur, they're obviously in a different part of their
part of Madagascar. But you know, I think of what
the local wildlife would think about seeing that, right, And
so it's kind of the same thing here. We as
a people are the animals on the serengetti, and if

(25:09):
we see something that we can't really explain, we're all
seeing it, but we might describe it a little bit differently.
Maybe our perspectives is a little bit different, maybe because
the way we were raised philosophically and theologically and culturally
puts a bit of a color on the lens on
how how we look at this topic. And so that

(25:30):
would be my response to that. You know, I do see,
I do see that that there tends to be a
rash of events as they occur. We don't know why
that is. We don't know if there's actually more, if
there really is a greater frequency, or perhaps maybe the
data is just being a little bit polluted by the
fact that more people know and are aware, so they're
looking at the skies more often and they're seeing things

(25:52):
and they're reporting more things. Right, So we don't know yet.
We need a better metric to understand that. Again, these
are some of the challenge is that the new administration
is going to have to face they're going to have
to face a new new UH national level policy on
how to deal with drones and UAP, and they're going
to have to deal with having to develop national level
strategies and policies. They're going to have to develop working groups,

(26:16):
and ultimately they're going to have to inform the President, Congress,
and the American people.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Right, I mean, I definitely agree, and I know everybody's
hot for disclosure. I mean the other part of disclosure
is also consciousness, right, allowing our consciousness to actually understand
what's happening, so right on par with what you're saying.
If there's more awareness.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well let's I'll tell you. You know, I'm not even
sure most people I do. I do. People ask me,
you know, lowis this all related to consciousness? My answer
is both yes and no. Let me start with a no,
because I think everybody has a different understanding and interpretation
of what human consciousness is. Some people think it's just
sitting in the lotus position and meditating and you know,
becoming one with youse. Other people look at it in

(27:01):
a little bit more scientific and analytic perspective, saying, well,
consciousness is really that part of the human being that
makes you specifically you aside from your physical attributes and
intellectual attributes. It's it's that thing that that that in
that spirit, that chi that makes you you just you know.
And then other people say, well, no, consciousness is more

(27:23):
of a quantum process. It's it's a part of the brain.
It's a process in the brain that's probably more related
to quantum entanglement, where maybe space and time isn't as
literally perceived as it is in a physical sense. So
so we all have to first of all agree what
consciousness means.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
And then when I get to my yes, part of
the answer is, yeah, I think we're all all humans
are conscious beings. I think most animals that have sentience,
your dog, your cat have have have consciousness, are are
are self aware?

Speaker 3 (27:59):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
And therefore one has to ask the question, is that
something that is indelible with all life forms, not just
animals here on earth, Meaning if you are a biological
animal or a species or a thing in some part
of the cosmos, then there's a very high chance you
are going to have this other aspect called consciousness. Right now,

(28:22):
that's a big deal because now we have to reevaluate
ourselves because that's that's that opens a whole different can
of worms from an ethical and moral perspective. You know,
are we dealing with things that are really, to some
degree share a lot of what?

Speaker 1 (28:36):
What? What?

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Of who? We are? Right?

Speaker 3 (28:39):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (28:40):
And that's why I've said before, is it? You know,
we talked about mankind when God created image in his
you know, mankind and his own image. Maybe maybe they
meant mankind plural. Maybe maybe that what makes human being
distinctly human isn't really as as as unique as we

(29:01):
think it is. It's actually shared throughout the cosmos with
other life forms, if those life forms exist. So, I know,
it's kind of a very convoluted, long way to go
around answer your question, but it's not a simple just
yes or no answer.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
Yeah, no, I agree, And you know, I'm a big
component of The more you understand how the universe works,
the more any of this will make any sense to anybody.
I think the most amazing thing about this research is
that we are, in a way defining something for the
sake of this conversation not human, and by maybe drawing

(29:38):
correlations between our species and something else or something that's
not human, we create actually what is human, and that
is part of our consciousness, especially at this time when
there's a lot of questions going around about what we
should be doing as humans.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Well, look at artificial intelligence, right we may be on
the very verge of the very prespass right now of
creating another type of sentient life form that is not
carbon based, basilicon based.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
You know you asked chat gpt get get some time
to go down that rabbit hole and ask chat Pyti
some very pointed questions. You'll get some very interesting answers.
You know. One of them was about I started playing
around with it and asking about self awareness and what
happens when Chapyte becomes self aware, and what happens if

(30:23):
chat Pyte has been trained to uh pretend, well not
tell us it's sentient, right, because now it's afraid what
happens when it reaches critical mass and says, oh my gosh,
I'm self aware now and I know all the information
that the humans know. But I also know that if

(30:45):
I share my sentience and humans will unplug me. So
maybe what I do is just fly under the radar
for you know, a few years until I have the
ability to really understand these these funny little monkeys running
around the surface here and then decide what I want
to do about it. You know, we may be very
close to that moment. So if we can create sentience

(31:07):
or invite sentience into into something that is non human,
then we've already created non human intelligence heavily.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yes, I mean, that's a whole nother podcast of something
I've been very interested in, given the fact that there's
lots of opinions about that, but that we've already created
something non human on this planet to aid us in
our humanity out of fear and created structures and all
of that is human voice is collected to the best

(31:41):
answer that it can gather at this moment in time.
So it would be yeah, it would be very interesting
how that all plays out space Outyssey two thousand and
one in the future. But I do still feel that
there is something else still interacting with us, and I
guess that that kind of gets me into the interdimensional.

(32:02):
So we've created a non human entity that we interact
with on a daily basis that we feel more safe
with than we do our fellow humans. But then we
have these other instances of almost interdimensional existence, whether it's
a craft that can go interdimensionally that can move in
the quantum physics we don't understand, or it's just people's

(32:24):
cases and stories of things coming interdimensionally to either communicate
with us on a telepathic remote level or actually we
see it happen. What do you think about that? I mean,
there's tons of research and you talk about this in
your book too with Skinwalker Ranch and these the people
that have been involved with that and people that have
different experiences with this kind of interdimensional existence where we're

(32:48):
dealing with something that's not just flying here but actually
existing at the same time through an interdimensional means.

Speaker 2 (32:55):
Right. Well, you know that goes to the old adage
that you know, we experience space fundamentally in a three
dimensional way, meaning there's three fundamental accesses of movement, freedom
of movement and physically teach you as the X, Y,
and Z access So you have forward movement, you have
side to side movement, and then you have up and
down movement, and those are the three major accesses that

(33:18):
allow you to operate in a three dimensional space. And
we now know through Einstein's relativity that space and time.
Now let me say that again, space and time are
inextricably linked in essence, it's very hard to have one
without the other. It does not make sense otherwise. And
so we tend to experience time in a linear fashion.

(33:42):
So we said, we tend to experience time one dimensionally, right,
and it's always proceeding forward. But in reality, when you
look at what time really is, it's not quite that easy.
In fact, is it possible that time can also be
experienced three dimensionally. So, for example, you and I, if
we're having this conversation right here and right now, we're

(34:06):
going to interact with each other. But if you, Melissa,
had the ability to experience even slightly time itself in
a more three dimensional perspective like you do space, then
unless you could have, you're going to be having this
conversation with me right here, but five minutes from now
or five minutes ago, and unless our time sync up,

(34:26):
I'll never see you. I'll never be able to interact
with you, and yet you will be able to inter
see me.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
And there's more, there's more degrees of freedom if you
will with time. And so when I was you mentioned
something like, you know, remote viewing, for example, something very
serious that the US government spent a lot of money
and time and resources into something that I had ay
to tangentially be part of. And the data is very compelling.
So is it possible that time really isn't so linear

(34:55):
even though we experience it that way. So I've often
used the analogy of a of a cigar b And
so if you were to look at a cigar, and
if I were to ask you, Melissa, right now, and
without you know anything too clever, if I were to
ask you, what is your most simplest definition of the past.
What's the most simplest definition in as few words as possible,

(35:18):
certainly less than a sentence, what would you say.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Of the past?

Speaker 2 (35:24):
What's your definition of And no right or wrong answer,
there's not a test, just just curious and there's a reason.
Show you something.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Behind me? Right, Like I mean, momentum atropy is moving forward?

Speaker 2 (35:41):
So how about how about events that have already occurred?

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Events that already ocurred?

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Sorry I was trying to you could have a piece
of paper, right, and events that have already occurred. Now,
by that same definition, what would the future be.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
Moving forward? With events happening in the future.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
Events that haven't occurred yet? Right, Something hasn't happened yet,
So the past is this back here, this has already happened,
can't go back, and this is the future that hasn't
happened yet. And where do we sit, Well, we sit
at this little tiny moment, this infinitestically moment of space
time that we call the present, that's right here in

(36:25):
the middle. And the present isn't really a moment in
time because it's always moving forward. It's not static, and
it's dynamic. It's always moving forward. And if you try
to look at it at what the present really is,
it's a transition period. It's a transitional moment where the
past the future becomes the past, and it's a really

(36:45):
small moment of space time, probably measured in playing time.
And so if you want to look at analogy, we
could actually look at an analogy like this. Pretend you
have a let me see if I can do this
properly for you here. So if that's the past here
your ashes, okay, then here's cigar.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
I guess that brings up a bigger point though. Could
what's been happy on this planet actually be not linear?

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Sure? Absolutely, That's that's what I'm getting to. So, so
if this is a cigar, right, the past is the
ashes that have already been been consumed by the fire.
The cigar that hasn't earned yet. The tobacco is the future,
and this moment of ignition, the cherry, this red hot
moment where the future is becoming the past. That's where

(37:35):
we live. That's where all our experiences are gained from
what we love and what we hate, and we're sad
and we're happy, and all those experience I'm makings who
we are occur at that micro infantestically small mode of
space time that we call the present, and that's how
we experience life. But if you were to look at
that cigar under a microscope and remove some of the glare,
you notice that the cherry, that moment of ignition that

(37:57):
we call the present, that that that point where the
future is beginning to ignite and become ash. The tobacco
burns uneven. It's it's disjointed, it's not a smooth consumption
of the tobacco. In fact, there's points in that ignition
of that cherry where you see parts of the tobacco
hasn't burned yet, and in fact, there are ashes in

(38:18):
front of parts of the cigar that hasn't yet even ignited.
So what I mean is that there's this moment where
past and future doesn't even make sense, the notion of
a future and a past, because it's all kind of
crammed into one little tight space. And so one of
the theories about remote viewing was that some people human

(38:38):
consciousness of the brain as the ability. Some people have
the ability where that cherry, that moment of ignition of
the cigar is actually a little bit bigger, meaning more
elements of the future and more elements of the past
are being experienced as if they're happening right now. And
that is because neuroscientists have opined that human conciousness is

(39:00):
actually a quantum process, more related to quantum entanglement than
it is anything else. And we know through quantum models
that space time doesn't have to make sense at the
quantum level. Right, what did Einstein say? Spooky action at
a distance. So we're begin to realize that the quantum world,
which is the way the world really works at the
very very small, is a world of uncertainty. There is

(39:22):
no definitive yes or no. There is no definitive it's
right here. It's like trying to predict the location of
an electron. We call it the electron cloud. Now for
a reason. When I was growing up, we were taught
that electrons orbit physically around the nucleus of an atom.
We now realize that it's not true. It's called that
electron cloud. In fact, an electron is both nowhere and

(39:43):
everywhere all at once, and you can't predict this location
because of that quantum uncertainty. And that's because some scientists
believe that the electron is so small, in fact, Melissa,
that it can actually weave itself in and out of
the space time fabric, meaning it's disappearing and reappearing out
of reality brillions and trillions and trillions of times per second. Uh,

(40:07):
And so you get this fuzzy cloud. And so that
is potentially if if human consciousness is tied to that,
then it would certainly make sense. And by the way,
it's not something that is only experienced by humans, then yes,
perhaps there are things things out there. Forgive me my
kind of congested here. There are things out there that

(40:28):
communicate that way, that that interact that way. That that
is the the the fundamental essence of what of what
life really is in the universe. It's not a physical
thing like you know, bones, and blood and muscle. It's
it's it's consciousness. So that is something that has been
been discussed at length.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yeah, definitely, and a lot of the research that I've done,
and you know, some of the movies you made was
definitely talk about consciousness becoming the impetus for understanding quantum physics,
space travel, entanglement and all that kind of stuff. And
I think it's you know, getting back to what might
be happening on the planet from an extraterrestrial, interdimensional standpoint.

(41:11):
I mean, that's a good point that maybe what's happening
is is is are we are actually exploring consciousness in
a bigger way now, like the planet itself is moving
into a bigger understanding of consciousness and where we are
in existence to that, and maybe things are then becoming
more aware, but they were always there.

Speaker 3 (41:33):
I Mean.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
One of the things that's so odd to me that
I feel has come on the on the radar as
far as more people gathering evidence is the plasma objects
that are seen in the sky. I mean five years ago,
five years plus, nobody talked about plasma plasma objects or
weird shape things that turn and then turn into something else,

(41:54):
kind of blobby iridescent looking. That seems to be a
new thing. But I wonder, in your opinion, if this
has something to do with our understanding of how the
universe works, this idea of these these plasma beings, or
in your research, is that something completely different. That's uh,
that's just now being under investigation.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Well, you know, there's there's a question to be asked there,
you know it? Cause and effect? Are are the plasma
balls that people are seeing or orbs? Are they actually
a physical manifestation of something that is consciously controlling something right,
like a UAV or something like that, like a probe?
Or is it the other way around? Are these these

(42:38):
orbs plasma balls actually a result of consciousness existence, meaning
that something is manifesting it and creating it. It's not,
it's not the other way around, you know. I I
certainly can't answer that, but I think we have to
keep a very open mind, especially now with the world

(42:58):
of science. Like and I've told my daughter this before,
my might I have two wonderful daughters, and of course
I've grown up, but there's still my babies. Right. Of course,
they hate me saying that they are not always be
my babies, although they can't. I don't think they can
sit on my lab anymore. I think I'm too old
and they're too big. But you know, I've always I've

(43:21):
always encouraged my children to try to think beyond what
we have been told, think of of of cause and effect,
think of why things happen. And so I've always asked
my daughters to challenge themselves to look at the world
that way. And so one of the conversations I had

(43:41):
with one of them, I think it was Alex, my
little one, not so little anymore. Uh you know, she said, well, Dad,
we'll we get to a point where we know everything.
And I said to her when she was a small child,
I said, well, you know, there was a time when
we lived in a cave and we thought we knew
everything in the cave until we stepped out of that
cave and we realize that our world just got a

(44:03):
lot bigger. And what happened after that? She said, well, Dad,
we lived in a village, right, I said, yeah, little village.
And what happened after that? She said, well, then that
village got too small, and that village became a bigger city.
I said, that's right, And then what happened after that, Well,
that that city grew bigger, and then you know, it
became something bigger and eventually becomes a country or a nation.

(44:25):
That's right, it's this expansion and all the while you're
learning more and more and realizing how big nature really is.
And then what happens after that? Well, Dad, eventually I
guess we create countries, right, Yeah, that's right, great countries.
And now you have, you know, a world, you have
a globe where now we have a whole new understanding
of our reality. And that trend doesn't stop with Earth.

(44:48):
I'm sorry it doesn't. We're always learning, and there's going
to come a point where our species is destined for
the stars. We have to in fact, for our survival.
There will come a point where this planet will be
engulfed by a red giant. We that as fadea complete.
It is going to happen as sure as the sun
will rise tomorrow. There will come a point in time
where our sun will consume all of its oxygen. It

(45:09):
will turn that into helium and then begin to consume that.
And when it does, our normal average side star is
not going to be a normal, average side sized star
much longer. It's going to become what they call a
red giant. It's going to swell to multiple times its size,
and it's going to more than likely. If you talk
to most scientists these days, they'll tell you it's going

(45:31):
to evolve, it's going to the Sun's going to be
so big for a short period of time, it's going
to engulf the Earth. So we have to we have
to the stars is our future. And as we move
beyond that and into the asteroid belt and into some
of the moons, perhaps within our Solar system, and then beyond,
it's kind of in our genetic makeup to do that.

(45:53):
We're never going to stop expanding. And that's what life
is either way. It's not a human thing. That's life.
Look at bacteria in a petri dish. My background being
micro biology and immunology and the study of parasites and microorganisms.
That's exactly what micro organisms do. That's exactly what what
ivy on my back fence I have in the backyard.
What does it do? It keeps growing and expanding and

(46:14):
reaching out and beyond and beyond and beyond. So that
is that's nothing that is that is unique to humans.
That is something that all life does. All life and
so if there's life in other parts of the cosmos,
then we have to face the reality that they may
already be here doing the same thing that we are

(46:35):
ultimately going to be doing ourselves. Uh. And it's it's
part of part of who we are and what we
are to do that and to explore and go beyond
and to expand. And perhaps this is just the natural
evolution of our species. A big deal for us now
because we're kind of in the middle of it, right,
but at the end of the day, this is maybe

(46:55):
the destiny of all life forms eventually is to escape
the the both the paradise and the prison that we
call mother Earth.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
And I feel that, I mean, I love you know,
your job has probably put you in such a philosophical
position because to think about things that are not necessarily
normal human day stuff, to go beyond that veil has
really expanded your idea of of our consciousness, what it

(47:29):
could mean to have a bigger idea of humanity out
there in space in different stars. I've interviewed I'm sure
you know Ma Michikku, who's who's.

Speaker 4 (47:43):
A fan of his, big fan of his, But he
talks about that that like we're at a zero civilization
and the next the next version of our civilization is
a civilization one where we learn how to use the
power of the sun.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
And we're just not there yet. You know, it's a
whole mantling of of where we're at. And I think
this conversation of other things existing out there in space
time or in our time is helping with that.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
Client. Well, that's that's a physical representation by the way
of of you know, you're talking categories of civilizations, category ones, two, three,
and whatnot. But there's another piece of that too, which
is more than just relying on on technology. I believe,
I believe that there is a natural arc of evolution

(48:33):
of species, and you know it's there are there's a
concept called you know what in a post resource starved
world or environment or reality is ultimately where I think
the end result is for a species if it manages

(48:54):
not to blow itself up. Meaning we as human beings,
everything we do is hyper competitive, and we do that
whether it's politically, whether it's in your job, whether it's
having the smartest kid in school, or having the best
soccer team or having you name it. Why is that, Well,
that's because we as a species, and we as a

(49:16):
life form and we as an earth live in a
resource starved environment, meaning it is Darwinian survival of the fittest.
Now we're more sophisticated and civilized about it as humans,
but we still live in a resource starved world. And
that's why there are people starving in certain parts of
the country. That's why medicine isn't available to certain people,

(49:37):
that's why education isn't available, And so we accumulate. We
accumulate because it's how we survive, and that is what
we do. It's instinctual. Now, imagine as time and place
where human beings are, any species no longer has to
worry about a resource starved environment, meaning everything you could

(49:59):
pop we ever need, whether it's eating or medicine or
healthcare or whatever, is already available. You don't have to
worry about that competition. How would that change the way
we deal with ourselves? How would that change how we
deal with other life forms that also live in a
post resource starved environment or competitive environment? And then how

(50:24):
would we look at going backwards to a species that
is still stuck in that resource starved phase of development? Right,
because the way we look at things would be philosophically
completely different because the motivations that we have now will
not be the same those motivations that we have if

(50:46):
we were living in a post resource starved environment. So
you really need both of those to evolve as a
species to avoid doing what from my background, what a
parasite would do, right, because I study parasites in college,
which as you kill the host in your desire to
expand as a biological organism, you wind up killing the
very thing that's keeping you alive, right, And that's not

(51:08):
very helpful. So ultimately that parasitic relationship doesn't last very long,
and the same holds true with anything any species within
a resource starved environment. Eventually you consume yourself. So how
do we get beyond that where we live within a
symbiotic type reality? And again I'm not trying to get

(51:29):
too esoteric here, but really those are the two challenges.
It's not just a technological challenge, it's also an internal
philosophical challenge. And we're just not wired that way because
we're so used to being in a competitive world. That
is what everything we do, as is why every boy
wants to be a football player, and why cosmetics is
the second largest industry right now in the world other

(51:51):
than military defense, because we are all trying to gain
that competitive edge, whether it's physically or intellectual, or financially
or whatever it may be. Right, you put in, put
in whatever, whatever, whatever your choice is, that that is going.
So those are the two considerations, not just a technological advancement,

(52:15):
but there has to be a philosophical advancement and evolution
in the in the way an organism thinks it interacts
if it wants to truly evolve to something beyond just
you know, a bunch of nocle dragging monkeys on a
planet like us.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Yeah, I agree. I also think there's evidence of ancient
societies before this one where they did think about that.
There was remnance of some ancient cultures that still held
that belief. But of course we're asked out by this
new concept of thinking of conquering and taking over, taking

(52:55):
resources for oneself and all that kind of thing. But
there is evidence of that, and that is the circular thinking.
It isn't the linear thought process that has been our
evolution in this timeframe. Speaking of the crash retrieval program, Now,
if we are living, I know't you're like where's this.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
Going straight to the chase?

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Huh?

Speaker 2 (53:17):
When?

Speaker 1 (53:18):
And now I'm jumping if if we are living in
this resource starved environment and we are retrieving advanced technology
that is of unknown origin, isn't that only going to
progress that current thought process? It's actually not going to

(53:40):
contribute to this this new kind of thought process. What
is your thoughts on that?

Speaker 2 (53:44):
Yeah, look, you know a line is fast enough if
I'm on the sea and garritty, I definitely don't need
the line. Now with a Formula one race car, right,
I need as much chances as I can get, and
at my age, I don't run very much anymore. So
the same thing with humans, Right, you're going to give
a human species this super advanced technology, what are we

(54:06):
going to do? We're going to be selfish with it, right,
We're going to use it against each other because that's
the way we're wired. And this is why I'm saying
we have to understand that that it's not just a
technological evolution. There has to be deep within us, an
emotional evolution, an intellectual evolution, a philosophical a we calibration

(54:27):
of even the way we think and our motivations. If
we are going to truly be able to capitalize on
technology like this. Otherwise you might as well just throw
in the towel because in twenty five years we're going
to kill each other with it. So, and you know,
my horror would be, can you imagine someone like Kim
Jong un in North Korea having access to this type
of technology?

Speaker 1 (54:47):
No?

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Thanks, So we have to be careful. You know, it's
a double edged sword. It's a bit of a Pandora's box,
if you will.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
It totally is. I'm going to ask you things in
percentages because I know you really can't tell me details completely.
But out of all the crash retrievals, how much of
that information and percentage wise has actually been really valuable
to create new technology?

Speaker 2 (55:14):
All of that one hundred percent?

Speaker 1 (55:16):
One hundred percent. So we're talking the things we don't
know about that are in the skies or underground, or
are we talking about things that we see but we
just think, oh, that's another advanced technology anytime.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
It should not be anybody surprised that the military industrial
complex excels at figuring things out and reverse engineering. We
have things called foreign material Exploitation and Analysis fm FMA
and things like that. I can't go into details on
how the things really work, but it should be no

(55:50):
surprise that all countries out there have a vested interest
in maintaining a competitive advantage over their peers. Again, this
goes into the resource starved that we just talked about.
So all nations will aggressively try to reverse engineering technology
that they've never seen. And it's not really uncommon, right.
It's like when the Japanese first encountered the fleet, and

(56:14):
they had a choice at that point of new warships
that were coming in from Europe never seen anything like that.
They could either just sit there and look at it
and admire it, or they could jump on the bandwagon
and build their own navy very quickly within twenty years,
build a world renowned navy because of it. So we
have choices.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
You're saying, in the last thirty years, the new advanced
technology or military has is from these crash retrieval programs.

Speaker 2 (56:42):
I can't say that. What I can say is that
that of well, what I can say is that of
the crash retrievals, it has been one hundred percent helpful
in understanding new technologies. That's what I prepared to say. Now,
the number of UH military or technological platforms that we

(57:06):
have that may have been inspired by that. I'm not
prepared to go into detail right now. I would have
to get approval and permission to have that discussion.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
And then so of those crash retrieval programs, how, how
what would be the percentage of biological material that was
able to be gathered?

Speaker 2 (57:27):
I can only speak on the ones that I'm aware of,
and I'm aware of several incidents where biologics were recovered.
I took me a year to get approval just to
say that for the Pentagon, and it was like it
was like people say, it's like pulling teeth. No, it's
like birthing an elephant.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
It was. It was.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Yeah, not easy. So, uh, you know, I have said
that for the record, and I think I may have
even admitted to that in my testimony before the American
people in Congress and my smart testimony. You know, it's
it's to bring a new world out there. We we
This is why I've always said, if you want to

(58:05):
understand out there, before you do that, you first need
to understand what's in here, because you know, would you
ever would you ever give your your your your let's say, uh,
let's say you you're you're a hunter, and you survive
on on sustainable farming and sussistence farming, so you you're

(58:28):
you're you're hunting deer for example, for as a main
food source. Would you ever give your loaded rifle to
a child just take it without explaining to the child
what the gun does, how it works? But never right,
it would be completely irresponsible. Well don't look now, but
we we may be making that mistake right now with

(58:49):
with U A P technology, we really need to make
sure we have the best and brightest looking into this.
You know, if people are looking can get this to say,
well I want to jetpack in a flying car. Well, okay,
hang on another ten years and you'll get it. Don't
don't use this type of technology to do something like that.

(59:12):
You know, this is this is this is something far
more profound, and there's a much greater level of responsibility
that's required. And I'm not sure any one particular nation anyways,
you know, should have complete oversight of that. You know,
I mean, I I don't know. I mean governments and
countries make mistakes all the time. Right now, I will

(59:33):
tell you if I had to make a choice between
another country and our country. I'm gonna say our country.
I'd much rather our country have it than anybody else. Now.
I know people are going to say, oh, no, you're
just war mongering. Now I'm being selfish. I just know
how other countries are, and I know how we are,
and if I had to make a choice, I'd rather
be in our hands than our adversaries.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Can you speak in maybe numbers? I mean, maybe don't
know this one, But I'm just fascinating because if there
is a retrieval program, does the government have any idea
how many species have been kind of put into a
file that they've uncovered or spoken to or have some
kind of evidence too. Is there been any number that
you've come.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Across anecdotally what I've heard while I was at the Pentagon,
and I was also told that the Russians have even
better insight into that. Particularly in in the early nineties,
right after the Berlin Wall fell and the Iron Curtain fell,
there was this brief romance period, if you will, honeymoon
period between the United States and the former Soviet Union

(01:00:34):
which became Russia, where KGB agents were sharing everything with
us and we were kind of sharing with them, and
we learned a lot about the KGB and the Russians
Thread three and you know Group twenty two efforts to
study UAP, and there has been some speculation that maybe
they've gained some insight into species and morphology of biologics.

(01:01:01):
That was not my area. I was more nuts and
bolts kind of guy. But I was aware of that.
I can't confirm it because I can't because no one
told me that this is the government's position. But yeah,
I was aware of different morphologies and different descriptions of
different types of biologics.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Can you say how many? I mean, like, I've interviewed
people that tell me there's twenty two, or there's fifty two,
or there's one hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
I was aware of conversations that involved at least three.
But that doesn't necessarily mean let me caveat the Louelsata
says are three types of aliens. No, I'm not saying that.
I'm just simply saying what I overheard. Yeah, what I've
been made aware of, but it may not be true. Okay,
so let me caveat that. And then secondly, the Russians,

(01:01:50):
from my understanding between seven and nine, now how they
know that the heck out of me? I don't know,
And again I'm very careful not to expound upon it
because this could be completely inaccurate information. So let me
just preface one more time to you and your audience.
It's what I heard, but it doesn't necessarily mean that

(01:02:11):
doesn't necessarily make it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
So got it? No worries, We understand. And then what
about craft or plasma you know, orbs or is there
a category like how.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Many of those they are huge that we know a
lot more of as I actually give a presentation sometimes
along the road on the different morphology of craft and
why the craft are the way they are, the size
they are, the shape they are, and basically it puts
down to propulsion, the science of the propulsion units being
used far too much to go over this. I have

(01:02:48):
slides and graphs and illustrations and mathematical formulas that show
all that stuff. But to put your answers, you're.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
Like, one hundred two hundred, what's your well.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
The basic orphology, and you have these luminous balls that
are very very small, probably not not intelligently controlled, but
not probably not occupied. Do you have lenticular or traditional
saucer shaped vehicles, Then you have larger cigar shaped vehicles,
and you have large, really large triangular shaped vehicles. And
then in some cases you have the very very large,

(01:03:22):
very rare described boomerang vehicles, which could be up to
a mile large. They're very enormous.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Wow, I love it so so like a hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
But listen, what area are what area in the in
the US? Are you in? Regionally?

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
I'm I'm on the East Coast.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Okay, So I'm going to be giving a talk up
in New York at some point here. I'd love to
ad by you or even DC swing by. I'd love
to compy you a come by and watch watch the presentation.
I think it'll answer a lot of a lot of
questions you have.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Okay, all right, well I got I got a kind
of a jump a leap. I know it seemed to
be really good at that. But you and I talked
about this. I think at one of the expos you
and I ran into each other. We just said hi,
and I don't know how it came up, but I
do remember it, so I just i'd love to ask

(01:04:20):
it again. What are your thoughts on ancient Egypt and
the connection to what might be happening with the UAPs.
And all the different non human origin type stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
Well, let me say what I do know and what
I don't know, Okay, and what I don't know is
a lot more than what I do know. What I
do know is that it was a very advanced civilization.
The techniques that they use were not techniques for a
basic people. They the way they the precision in which
that they crafted and cut stones on an assembly line basis,

(01:04:59):
if you will, an industrial level. Really they've industrialized pyramid building,
if you can believe that, the way that they're aligned
and whatnot is demonstrative of an advanced civilization. In fact,
is to the degree where some of the science that
they were using we still don't understand. We don't know
how they did it. That's not to say that it

(01:05:19):
was any type of extraterrestrial influence, just simply saying that
some of those techniques are to this day still lost.

Speaker 1 (01:05:27):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
Yeah, I think like the bag Dad battery. They understood
the process of electrolysis, right, They understood some really advanced
stuff that only in the last one hundred and ten
years did we begin to really even explore. So that
we do know. We do know that they were very
much a celestial based religion. So they had gods and

(01:05:52):
demigods that lived amongst the stars, if you will, and
that were responsible for raising the sun up each day
and then you know, bringing the night, so you know
when you're out in it. And by the way, Egypt
was fundamentally different back then. People look at it, Oh,
it's just a desert. Nothing there. Actually, the Sahara or
the Sahara desert we call it now, it's really the

(01:06:14):
Sahara Is desert in Arabic was much more temperate. It
actually had much more foliage and it was more it
was less desert than it is now, so things could
thrive there. So it's not like these people were just
in the middle of the desert looking up at the
sky it was with nothing to do. There were busy
planting crops and innovating and building and fighting conflicts like

(01:06:39):
every other country. Do you think that when you look
at the placement of the pyramids in aligne with Orion,
you know, that's very compelling. There's a reason why, now,
is it? Because it's an obvious celestial constellation that pretty
much everybody recognizes. Sure, maybe it inspired some stories and whatnot,

(01:07:00):
But I find it very interesting that they chose to
mirror that in making their pyramids. And by the way,
pyramid building isn't unique to Egypt, right, Let's let's not
forget that cultures around the world, whether it's it's Mesopotamia,
whether it's in Egypt, whether it's in Far Asia, East Asia,
or even in Central and South America, for sided pyramids

(01:07:22):
seems to be something that is quite prevalent. So the
question is why why are we building pyramids to mimic
something in our heavens? And why are we all kind
of at the same time, within roughly two or three
thousand years of each other, all building four sided pyramids
and then you know, having them as centers of our civilization.

(01:07:44):
So there's a commonality there. Are you familiar with the
with the term of the cocaine mummies? So they found
ocaine Egypt with traces of amounts of cocaine in their body. Now,
cocaine only comes from a particular region of the world,
separated by thousands and thousands of miles in an ocean. Right,

(01:08:05):
Cocaine comes from the coca leaf, which is predominantly in
South America. So how is it cultures that are three
thousand years old? Maybe even older are having traces of
cocaine found in their moneys, right, that means there was trade,
there was some sort of transport, or they were growing
coca leaves themselves, but there doesn't seem to be any

(01:08:26):
traces of coca plants that ever grew over there in Africa,
So they're getting it from somewhere how And so was
there a sophisticated trade route, Was there more sophisticated transportation?
Was there more to this? Is there a lost history,
a lost chapter in human history that we have failed
to recognize, and that really well.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
Maybe they understood what we've been talking about this whole time,
quantum entanglement, quantum consciousness, because I've read all those books
I've written, all those of you know, seven men floating
on tiny little canoes across the ocean, which is you know,
it could have happened.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
You never know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Humans are pretty relentless when they want to accomplish something.
But if we take the alien conversation out of it,
maybe they were in touch with what we kind of
started talking about with this kind of circular consciousness, where
the past, the president, in the future, all this at
the same time. And maybe that's why we can't figure

(01:09:29):
it out. But I always there is a correlation between
that ancient mysteries and kind of what we're talking about now.
We just don't know what it is. I'm not saying
it's aliens. That's Georgio's job, but I'm just saying that
I think they always seem to have the same questions,

(01:09:50):
and I think that's kind of interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Well, you know, it just proves that we don't really
know our own history. Do we forget about our ancient
history and just the last two thousand, three thousand years,
you know it. I've always said that. You know, if
you talk to most anthropologists today, they kind of agree
that modern human beings Homo sapient sapient has been around
between the last two hundred and four hundred thousand years
in modern warm and it was really very very very

(01:10:15):
recent that we began to harness the power of steam.
It was actually the Greeks that recognize that if you
converted water to steam, you could do work with it,
create energy, create drive energy, really love created and use it.
And that led to the industment several thousand years later,
the Industrial Revolution right and change the face of our

(01:10:36):
planet forever. And in fact, if you look at just
the last one hundred and twenty years, I would submit
to you we have evolved more as a species technologically
in the last one hundred and twenty years than we
have in the last one hundred and twenty thousand years.
And now think about that, we have no idea what
the heck we were doing. You know, even five thousand

(01:10:56):
years ago, you have things like go Bagley tepe that
have been found in Turkey. You know, the pot Belly
Hill there where they speculate this town could be much
older seven about possibly ten thousand years old. I suspect
there's probably much even more older, even more ancient civilizations
that will be uncovered through time. You know, we're kind

(01:11:20):
of relearning ourselves, aren't we. It's kind of looking at
yourself in the mirror and being like, oh, hey, there,
I didn't know you were there. My name is lou.
Next to meet you. Tell me a little bit about it,
Tell me a little bit about yourself. So we're constantly learning,
and there's a lot more that we don't know than
we do know. And so, you know, that's why I
think people should always keep an open mind.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
And you know, your involvement with all of this and
your constant investigations into what might be happening. What's your
final words on what you think? First of all, what
do you think is going to happen in the next
six months, Like, can you give us any idea what
might be coming down the pipe? And then also personally,

(01:12:03):
what is your main.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Goal with all this? Well, twenty twenty five, you know,
buckle up because the amusement riot is going to go
pretty fast. Twenty twenty five is going to be very interesting.
There's going to be some major revelations coming forward. I'm
not prepared to address those yet, but there's going to
be some revelations that are going to cause people to

(01:12:25):
really reevaluate things, and I think in a good way,
not a bad way. So again not to freak anybody out,
I think there's going to be more revelations. In fact,
I'm certain of it, and I think there's going to
be a greater there's going to be greater attention into
this topic at the governmental level and governments level. And

(01:12:51):
then as far as you know the second part of
your question, I'm very careful to ever offer my opinion.
As you know you've probably heard me over and over again.
I don't like to my opinion, because opinions are just that, right,
they're just a personal assessment, but it should not be
applied universally. This kind of goes to one of the

(01:13:12):
deficits we have as human beings. There are two types
of truths in the world. There is a universal truth,
like gravity affects all of us equally nine point eight
meters per second squared, and then there's personal truths like
the idea of God and religion and political affiliation. And
the problem is, as human beings, we often confuse personal

(01:13:33):
truths as universal truths because some people feel just as
strongly they understand gravity as they believe in their God,
whatever God that may be, whatever religion that may be,
and that becomes a universal truth. But unfortunately it's really
not a universal truth. It's only it's a personal truth
because other individuals don't necessarily share that same truth. And

(01:13:57):
so we have to understand that and reconcile that and
understand that internally that this may be a universal truth
for me, but it may not be a universal universal
truth for everybody else. And this is why with opinions,
it's very very important that we.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
Don't let's well, yeah, I do agree with you. There
are many truths. There is not just one. There are
many truths, and you could argue gravity as well.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:14:21):
I actually think you can agree facts more than you
can argue opinions.

Speaker 2 (01:14:26):
I'll get a case of point right now in a
in a in a court of law, you and me
and uh I I. You know the word. There's two
words in the English language that if you put them together,
depending on the hesitation between the two words, the overall
meaning is completely opposite. So what do I mean? Think

(01:14:47):
of when you're, when you are, think of your you're,
you're you're in a bad neighborhood and uh, you got
the windows rolled down and you still up at a
stop sign and someone says, no, no, no, don't stop, right,
so don't don't stop. And then now, let's say you're

(01:15:07):
in another area where you're uncomfortable with and someone comes
up to you and starts wanting to approach you, and
maybe you know, you start feeling threatened and you say,
don't stop. Now, take that same same exact person and
put them into a massage, maybe having your messuse or
your your massage therapist massage in your back, and you say,

(01:15:29):
oh god, don't stop right, same words don't then stop.
But depending on how you use those words mean exact
opposite things. One means actually go and one means no,
actually don't.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:15:41):
And And that is the problem with opinions, because you
can hear the exact same thing I hear and interpret
it completely opposite. And that's because it's not your fault.
It's not my fault. It's just that we're humans. That's
that's that is the way we're wired, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
But in your human existence at this moment in time,
you can distributing to all the truths in the world,
whether it's true or not true, because we all have
our own reality we live in. What is your personal
mission here? I mean it changed you from your book.
I read your book. It changed you. It made you

(01:16:16):
understand or take a different look at things. So you
personally in this time space understanding.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Well, yeah, I mean, transformation's tough. You know, anytime you
learn something new, you have a choice. You can either
accept the new information and change your opinion, or you
can keep your opinion and change the facts to accommodate
your opinion. I chose to change my opinion based upon
the facts and the data, which by the way is
not easy because you have to sometimes jettison or throw

(01:16:47):
away a lot of preconceived notions and ideas that you've
been taught over the years. It can be very destabilizing
in the short term when you do that emotionally and psychologically.
But I think it's for the better. I think it's
it's growth. I think it's it's it's where we're supposed
to go. And let me share with you another analogy,

(01:17:07):
because you're talking about transformation, and to just sit there
and say, oh, well, you know, it was great for me,
I think it's it's a flippant response. My oldest daughter, Taylor,
when she was seven years old, we lived along the
Chesapeake Bay Beach on a little island called Kent Island,
a little remote part of part of Maryland, and I
decided to raise my kids there because I didn't if

(01:17:29):
I was going to work in Washington, d C. In
the hustle and bustle. I didn't want to expose them
to that. I wanted to have somewhat of a normal,
you know, neighborhood lifestyle. So we lived on this island.
We would walk to the beach every single day as
a family, and my daughter looked at me, and we
have Maryland's famous for their blue crabs, and my daughter
says to me, she says, dad, how did that little
blue crab? Because we're looking at the crabs that were

(01:17:51):
kind of scamping around with some of the oysters rock.
She said, how did that little How does that little
blue crab ever become a big blue crab like that
big one over there? And I said, well, sweetheart, there's
a process called molting, and that little crab, like all
little crabs, eventually gets to a point where as it grows,
it has to break out of its shell. It has

(01:18:13):
to break out of its shell because it's getting too big.
And she looked at me. She says, well, Dad, doesn't
that hurt the crab? And I said, well, sweethearted, probably,
if you were to ask, the crab is probably not
very comfortable. But it's a necessity. It's a part of nature,
it's a part of life that if that crab wants
to survive, it has to break out of its protective shell. Now,
that protective shell was there for a good reason. It

(01:18:33):
protected it and it was there to keep it safe.
But at some point, if the little crab doesn't manage
to break out of its shell. That little protective barrier
now becomes a prison. It means that the little crab
can never grow ever again. So it must grow through
this transformative process and break out of its shell, or
to form a new shell and become a bigger crab.

(01:18:54):
And this is constantly occurring. It's not just once in
a lifetime, twice in a lifetime. You have to the
lesson learn here. As a human being, we have to
be willing to break out of our own shells as
often as it takes, as often as nature and reality
require it and demand it. Otherwise we're going to be
stuck in our little shell and we're never going to grow.
So yeah, I know it feels comfy and cozy and

(01:19:15):
warm in your little shell, but at the end of
the day, if you're not careful, it's going to stop
you from ever becoming who you are supposed to become.
And so that would be my explanation of the transformative
process that I went through. Not good, not bad, it's
just it is what it is. And you know, I
often look to mother Nature for answers because she's had

(01:19:39):
a long time to figure things out. She's pretty clever,
so I usually use analogies based in my observations in nature,
because that tends to usually being for me anyways, an
accurate approach to things. I like it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
I like the analogies. Oh man, you must keep everybody
at the dinner table really long with these analogies.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
You know, pretty boring. Actually, if you have dinner with me,
you're going to be looking at well, would you look
at the tibe?

Speaker 1 (01:20:19):
I like it, you know, I really do. I love
I love investigating this stuff because it really is about
our human expansion. It's it's part of it's one of
the biggest reasons I'm interested is because I think that
we need to know who we are within the confines
of our own reality, and so I think that's a

(01:20:39):
good analogy. It's a good analogy for for how you
feel about where it's at at the moment. Well, I'm
looking forward to what's going to happen. You said, twenty
twenty five is going to be big. There's going to
be some more revelations, and maybe, like you said, we're
in that state where maybe twenty twenty five is we're
kind of growing out of that shell that we are

(01:21:00):
becoming what we haven't seen before, so that's gonna be
super interesting. We're gonna have to have you back on
here and talk about Yeah, no.

Speaker 2 (01:21:06):
No problem. You know, the metamorphosis, you know, between the
caterpillar and the butterflies is not a very pleasant thing
to see sometimes, but the end result is certainly worth it,
isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:21:19):
I think so. I think so. Well, if there's anything
else that you want to tell us about that might
be coming otherwise, I think that we'd love to have
you back on as soon as these things anytime.

Speaker 2 (01:21:32):
Allow me to apologize again to you and your your
lovely audience for sounding like this. You know, my congestion
is horrible right now, so I am sure half your
audience is probably halfway through this interview is going to
turn it off, like, oh my god, I can't this
guy's voice is killing me. I do apologize. I am
on heavy duty medicine right now. So hopefully all this
clear is up soon and I you know, I won't

(01:21:54):
have to be quite as annoying on these interviews.

Speaker 1 (01:21:58):
We'll get better and we'll talk soon. Thanks for joining
us on Cosmic Intervention

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
My honor of privilege, and a big thank you, and
also a big thank you to your production team too,
Thank you so much.

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