Ep. 1079: MSU football and Jonathan Smith, the Tigers, Lions, oh my! What did we miss?

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I love, I love Wow, Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Oh oh.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
What do you get when you cross a know it
all newspaper columnist with an awkward, unsophisticated every man.

Speaker 4 (01:44):
Yeah, well I'm just not sure about that right now.

Speaker 5 (01:58):
Well, how the room.

Speaker 6 (02:02):
Welcome to couch in the room, our Wednesday afternoon show
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(02:25):
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(02:46):
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Speaker 5 (02:55):
Jason, what do we miss? Fuck get game recap three two?

Speaker 7 (03:05):
We're droppings?

Speaker 5 (03:06):
No, Amen, we didn't miss much. I don't think so.
Just a colossal bunch of shit that happened, or cod
I gotta say the thing that stuck with me this whole,
Like the trip back from Denver. I was like, I
cannot believe Penn State fired James Franklin. Yeah, in the
middle of the season, something that we thought couldn't happen.

(03:28):
But it looks like you know something over there? Do
you know something? I know something? Yeah, Jew's coming. Is
juice coming to this program? Are we gonna have some
juice in this program? Are you asking Max bulla is
the head coach. Can we ask him about the Rose
bull Who.

Speaker 6 (03:40):
Would you rather have? Max Buller or James Franklin.

Speaker 5 (03:43):
I gotta say I'm more intrigued by Buller right now.
I know what we get with James Franklin. Right, We're
never gonna win a big game. We're gonna get some
big name recruits. Recruiting will turn around, but we won't
will never beat a top ten team. Max Buller, on
the other hand, everything I'm reading is like this guy
is grit. He's gonna be like the next Dan Campbell's.

Speaker 6 (03:59):
Will be interesting. And I'm not talking about with MSU specifically,
but with all these coaches with buyouts as they begin
to happen, and there's just so much turnover happening. Is
there's if you're a shrewd business person and you want
to make a spot like James Franklin. I don't know
every detail of his contract, but you could probably pay

(04:19):
him one hundred grand and right left, pay let paint No,
just let Penn State. Yeah, pay the rest of the
salary and put that money into your program. The same
if you know, if something were to happen to Jonathan
Smith and and hewhere elsewhere? I mean these going forward,
the coach who's bought out, who's still a good coach,
might wind up being the hot commodity, the one that

(04:39):
makes a lot of sense for schools because fiscally it makes.

Speaker 5 (04:43):
So there's going to be at like a gigantic change
with these, Like the payouts for the coaches, right, I
don't know. I don't know if it's the payouts or
it's the ten years did you extend a guy and
then you have to end up paying them but it's interesting.
I mean, could you get away with that if you say, hey, James,
come on in, Penn State's gonna pay it. We'll pay
you one hundred grand.

Speaker 6 (05:01):
Yeah, you'd probably you'd probably have to still write something
more into the buyout. The interesting thing is I've seen
a lot of talk of this is going to change
the way colleges do business. Colleges can't help themselves, and
they're also competing. Look at the number of openings already.
And if if there's somebody you want, you're competing with
other schools for that guy, and so you're you're gonna
have to play ball. And if somebody else is going

(05:22):
to offer a healthy buyout, then you're gonna have to
offer a healthy buyout to get them. We are not
at that point yet at Michigan State with Jonathan Smith
and his staff. We should say that the funeral has
not happened yet. You sure, Yeah, yeah, well, so let's go,

(05:49):
let's back your column doesn't feel Yeah, I mean I don't.
I don't think it's likely because a couple of things.
One like Saturday was a game I did not see
coming in the way it unfolded. Like it's not that
they lost that was entirely unpredictable. I mean, I didn't

(06:10):
think they were gonna lose the game, but like we
we've not seen MSU be a great team. But it
was how they lost in this sort of the feeling
of a little bit of give up and the demoralized
team that looks like it's lost belief and the belief
that it can find answers. There's a loss of confidence
in Michigan. Say's coaches, to their credit this week, have
not been at all defensive. They've been pretty forthcoming about that.

(06:33):
Are you allowed to be? Mel Tucker would have been
defensive in this situation, and people were talking about the
outside noise.

Speaker 5 (06:39):
We have enough time? Is mel gonna come back?

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Come back?

Speaker 6 (06:44):
But Mark D'Antonio, I will say the best he ever
was with media was during his twenty sixteen, three and
nine seasons when he just got it and he just
understood it. That doesn't save you, though, if you're Jonathan
Smith and this staff and you know it, Saturday was
one of those performed is it's problematic because we've sort
of seen that before and it never goes well from here.

(07:07):
That's the thing, right, And you know, in modern college football,
you do not get the four years. Like we used
to talk with Mel Tucker about, he's got to get
his guys and this is when you can really judge him.
And this is what is fair and I've you know,
and I still believe is that era was coming in
and the way he was recruiting, that was sort of
the way to judge. It's just you also have to

(07:30):
show people there's the potential of a high ceiling at
some point, like I do think fans in college football,
and this goes everywhere. This is Penn State, which I
think is going to find life tougher after James Franklin
depending on who they get. This is everywhere where you're
You're you're going to see inconsistency and you're going to
see programs that are really good. Programs have a four
and eight season, five and seven season, and you can't

(07:54):
you can no longer write that off as the direction
of the program. It's a blip. They got it wrong
in the portal that year. The culture isn't great because
what you no longer have anymore is guys who are
completely bought in because they can't they're not gonna leave.
They've waited three or four years to start. They're they're
they're they're all in on the program. This is who
they are. This program is their identity. Guys come in,
they move, they leave. It's transactional. There's gonna be a

(08:14):
lot more quitting teams, and there's gonna be a lot
more years that go south. But you still you have
to show the ceiling too. You have to show the
potential for the great years. Fan bases are gonna have
to deal with the occasional four and eight that's gonna happen,
but you got to deliver the ten and two's, and
the nine and threes and and and beyond to to
to survive those. It is just weird that eighteen games

(08:35):
in were in this point.

Speaker 5 (08:36):
But I.

Speaker 6 (08:38):
The interesting thing is too And while I don't see
a path forward, a likely path forward, I should say,
I mean I see a path.

Speaker 5 (08:45):
I just don't. It doesn't You don't see anything that
could happen this season, well that could turn the fan
base around, the donors around. Well, here, here's here's obviously
winning out.

Speaker 6 (08:53):
Here's the path and here's why. There's there's always a chance.
And if like I think, there is an there is
a chance if things go really South this week at Indiana,
that that'll be it. And I don't know what really
South means, but I think you'll kind of know it
when you see it losing by sixty Yeah, that's really said.
It's at twenty seven, right. But if say they just

(09:15):
lose the game by a couple of touchdowns, by seventeen points,
twenty points, and it's not any embarrassing games, they're just
not quite as good, but it doesn't look like they've quit.
They're playing hard. It's whatever. And then they beat Michigan
because Michigan's not that good. And again they've beaten Michigan
out of the out of nowhere before you know. Again,
I'm not predicting that. I'm just saying, if you beat Michigan,

(09:38):
well you're not getting rid of a guy. Just beat Michigan.
Penn State's a mess. They got Maryland at the end
of the year. You can see how if they beat
Michigan there is a path to a Bowl game still,
and then that would look like momentum. So the thing
they'll have to decide internally is if they're already sort
of out here and things go badly at Indiana, they

(10:00):
should they should make the move they should I mean
you don't. You shouldn't because it's if you let them
play Michigan, there are a couple of things that can
go wrong. One, it goes really bad at Michigan, and
and if you make a move, then like with Bobby Williams,
it's like you let Michigan rival knock out a coach
that's not great, or you win the game and you've

(10:20):
decided you want to move on. But now you've got
a guy who's just beating Michigan, who's got game, who's
got a team that feels good about itself, that's got
opportunities to win ahead, and he can salvage his tenure
or at least we're just.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
Trying to figure out what's less embarrassing at this point.

Speaker 6 (10:32):
Well, yeah, and so they have to figure they have
to figure out what they want. But I think and
that's why it's it's while I have never seen a
team that looked like they did last week against U
c l A recover to the point that they're going
to do the things that I'm talking about, right, But
I'm saying if I were in that building, I would
not think it was completely lost hope, because you you

(10:56):
can see if you can, and and and sometimes in
building you the last to know, so I don't. It's
hard for me to know. I mean they've been I mean.

Speaker 5 (11:05):
It's pretty easy to see what they showed against UCLA
and the things we saw in the field, and some
of the UCLA players former Michigan State players that were
on that UCLA team, right, they were talking about the
guys had nothing, they didn't want to, you know, and
want to play in that game whatsoever. And you just
get beat, get hammered at home coming? What do you
need to see against Indiana? I know you're just trying
to give a glimmer of hope or not or whatever.
I think, I don't.

Speaker 6 (11:25):
I think for some people, they'd rather it just happen,
And so they don't want.

Speaker 5 (11:28):
Just let him coach the season out.

Speaker 6 (11:29):
No, no, we're saying, they'd rather you just move on
now until they don't want those wins to happen. They
don't want to continue it because they don't think he
can be the guy. And I think I think the
fan base is probably pretty split on that. I think
it's really hard to tell people it's better off they
lose to Michigan, you know, because that's just not ingrained
in the MSU psyche.

Speaker 5 (11:48):
What coach would they put in the interim basis though
that players could rally around and maybe possibly that Michigan game, right,
like who do you make the interim or do you
just let Smith coach it out? As you're looking, I
know they still can't believe the Franklin guy canned though
at Penn State with that big, big of a bio.
That's wild to me, and Smith seeing that had to
be like, okay, I'm done here.

Speaker 6 (12:09):
My hunch, and again we're not at this point my hunters.
It would be Courtney Hawkets, there's somebody like that if
if if they went the rest of the year making it, Yeah,
well I think that's also where a big Courtney hawket.
I think that's where they'd go.

Speaker 5 (12:20):
But we're not.

Speaker 6 (12:22):
We're just not there yet. And that's what's what's forward,
what's interesting, correct, But there still is this game. There
still is this data point. There still is this uh
strange opportunity where even if people and and and you know,
I'm not sure how everybody over at m s U
feels that the higher but whatever, regardless of that, like

(12:43):
like I definitely don't feel whatever j Batt feels about
Jonathan Smith is a head coach. I'm pretty sure he
didn't go into this year thinking he was gonna have
to do this sort of thing, and that that when
you're a first you know, you've been four or five
months on the job, having to do this sort of
thing is is not convenient, it's not helpful, and so

(13:04):
it would be interesting even if somebody like Jay that
wasn't sure about the direction of things long term, whether
he thought there was some benefit to to go into
next year. It's it's it's a weird place to be
because two weeks ago, I didn't I didn't see this coming.
I didn't I thought they would be this is year two.
It's you know, I thought it was. I think it's
a pretty competent staff.

Speaker 5 (13:25):
Overall.

Speaker 6 (13:25):
It just hasn't worked and he hasn't connected to this point,
and they haven't had moments where they look like the
better coach team out there. They've had too many moments
like at Michigan, Nebraska or Sorry Rutgers at the end
of last year, Nebraska this year, UCLA like those are
defining games. Not enough of the IOWA last year now
because you're still the coach you go down to Indiana.

(13:49):
Nobody in the world thinks that's going to go well.
But if it goes relatively well, you've you've as long
as you're this staff, you've still got an opportunity. And
because it's only year two, you're in this weird spot
where I think the opportunity is still real if you
can perform well enough this week and then do something
against Michigan, Like you know it, it's not.

Speaker 5 (14:07):
What you have to admit. Even two weeks ago, this
program didn't have much juice around it. I know we
would talk about it. You try to give some sort
of glimmer of hope like you're doing today.

Speaker 6 (14:15):
No, no, no, there's not. But there's a difference between
there's difference between not having juice and having a trajectory
that you just can't find hope right like or.

Speaker 5 (14:25):
The team gives up on.

Speaker 6 (14:26):
The last two games were the opportunity for juice. You
get to five and one, you know, Indiana looks like Gangbusters.
You may not win that game anyway, but Michigan looks vulnerable.
Penn States just fired their coach, their quarterbacks out for
the year. They're coming to Spartan Stadium in November. Minnesota
is not great. You got Maryland at the end of
the year. If you had gotten a five and one,

(14:46):
there would be Jews and they could have been five
and one.

Speaker 5 (14:50):
I think.

Speaker 6 (14:50):
I think it's not. Five and one is not outside
of the physical abilities of this team, and that's where
people are frustrated. People can stand a team not living
up to or not being able to be plucky and
just not having the horses right. You can do it,
and last week had a little do that, a lot
of injuries on defense. And I do think one of
the things about this situation this year with MSUs football team,

(15:14):
both on defense and the offensive line, is got to
be careful how much you buy into depth. The talk
of depth again, and this goes I'm talking to myself here,
because we heard a whole lot about depth. Hard to
pick an offensive line got ten guys, maybe seven or eight.
Turns out there were a couple of them they just
really can't live without, and they're not as deep as
they thought. You wouldn't be playing who you're playing at

(15:36):
right tackle. If you were as deep as you thought,
you look better up there, your quarterback would have I
think that's played a big reason why and Childs is
taking such a step back and lost some confidence and
they know it. And the question is, you know, and.

Speaker 5 (15:49):
That's supposed to be Smith's bread and butter is the
offensive line, and you're rotating guys in and out.

Speaker 6 (15:53):
Well it's supposed to quarterback. Yeah, no, it's It'll be
interesting to see whether, because they have done nothing as
a staff to this point to exude to bring out
about any confidence from the fan base, they have a
maybe one last maybe a couple lasts, maybe a few
last opportunities to change that. But they would have to
do something that seems against the against the run of play,

(16:17):
so to speak, against the trajectory. What was your thought
when you're watching that game? What was your thought before
you read anything I wrote or saw the discourse?

Speaker 5 (16:23):
What was going on? I said, Wow, we're going to
come back. We didn't have a show on the last
Friday due to a scheduling scheduling conflict, and I'm going
to come back to a new coaching hire or a
coaching search, that is, I didn't I thought for sure
after the way they showed on homecoming. I don't care
how injured or how depleted you are or lack of
depth that you have to show up like that. And

(16:45):
UCLA comes in and I know they had success the
week before at home against Penn State, but to come
and travel and talking about all they travel, the time
change and everything and how that would affect UCLA, and
UCLA came in and just absolutely dominated you. And that's
the shocking thing to me. I just didn't think, you know,
Smith was the guy the whole year. I just didn't
see the juice, the excitement for the program, the recruits

(17:07):
coming in. So it doesn't surprise me as far as
I just didn't think Smith would be the head coach
of Michigan State next year. But my big question is,
so no more. Nick marsh childs, well, but you can't.
If you're making a change, you're you're making a bigger change.
You're as I understand, we have to do that. You
can't believe they leave. I'm just saying, but yeah, that's

(17:27):
they're going to be gone, right, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (17:28):
And if you if you make a change, you're making
a broader change, and you're not worried about individual players,
and and and and there's a good chance next year
won't be any better because most situations aren't. Kirk Signetti
most people don't have Uh now, if you hire you know,
if James Franklin were to come in and you bring
half of his Penn State roster, and you know, maybe
you go. But most people don't have eleven starters like

(17:50):
Signetti had. And our university is really dying to have
Franklin on their campus though. I mean yeah, as far
as recruiting, but to lose games like he's lost, and
obviously the buyout would be you know, there are so
mass there are so many places that would just kill
to be ten and two every year and have a
chance to be in the playoffs. They were one game
away from the National Championship game last year.

Speaker 5 (18:11):
But then you get there and then you go, well,
why can't you win the big game and then the
college football Playoff? Like you're supposed to have aspiration, You
deal with it that it's okay, you don't have to deal
with garbage and shit. If this is how we're going
to do the new college football landscape, then let's do it.
I don't mind it if that's what we're going to do.

Speaker 6 (18:26):
But if you're at MSU right now, you can't even
win the game against UCLA and homecoming absolutely don't worry
in the national semifinals, the least of your worries, Like
that's a problem, that's a neck, that's a first world
problem that you don't live in. And so you got
to get yourself there first and and and then you'd
have Look, I'm not saying I am not advocating that
if Michigan State makes a change here that they eventually

(18:48):
hired James Franklin. I'm not advocating that. I'm just saying
that I think it was a mistake that what Penn
State did. Now, I will say this, there are a
lot of people and Chris Salari the other day brought
this up on Spartan Speak another podcast, the idea that

(19:11):
like nationally, there are a lot of people going, wait
a second, a year, two, how is this happening? You
got to give a guy a time, what's going on?
And yet if you're you're here locally, you sort of
understand how this has gotten to this point and and
it's not Look, it's not be clear, it's not something
I root for. I like Johnson Smith personally. I think
he'd be a man. I think I'd enjoy covering him

(19:32):
for the next ten years. If that's what worked out.
I think he's a good guy. I think he's the
type of person you want representing your program. It just
hasn't worked. And it's again I'm struggling to see how
it does.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
He's a guy that you want representing your program. But
ten years ago, ten years ago, his stick worked Unfortunately
now and that's under the circumstance hiring a new ad
slash manager whatever you want to call Jay Batt. It
just it's a recipe for we just have to move on.
Are you a good guy? Well no, you also need
somebody Matt. I think.

Speaker 6 (20:02):
I think the the Midwest ties are real. I think
the ability to connect with the fan base is real.
At Michigan State, you know of somebody who can got
to speak meet the fan base where they are is important,
and he has been unable to do that to this point.
What would be interesting, and what he has not done
is so winning cures things. So if you go down
to Bloomington, Indiana and you upset the Hoosiers, which is
again not gonna happen, I don't think. But and then

(20:25):
you turn around and you beat Michigan and you make
some great wise crack that people love, you know, like
if is that enough? I know people are have been
completely out on him before this season. I want to
hear the wise crack.

Speaker 5 (20:38):
I'm rooting for the win and the Michigan wins, so
I can hear this wise crack that would take over
Spartan nation.

Speaker 6 (20:45):
It would be funny as if he said, you know
how Kirk Signette says, uh, google me, I win when
you got the job, he said, google me? Oh wait, no, no,
look at the headlines. Don't google me. But we're turning
this around or something like.

Speaker 5 (20:57):
What's the thing? Yeah? Is that? Yeah? Search engine?

Speaker 6 (21:02):
Usual, your Yahoo search engine?

Speaker 5 (21:05):
Whatever? We have.

Speaker 6 (21:08):
We have what I think is gonna be a good
show here. Uh today we do.

Speaker 5 (21:13):
We do. It's impossible. It's just a bucket of ass
everywhere you look.

Speaker 6 (21:16):
We we are going to talk some Tigers in a
little bit, uh with Cody Savenhagen from the Athletic and
talk about their offseason so.

Speaker 5 (21:24):
I can hear how bad Riley Green is. Yeah, and
we don't need them anymore.

Speaker 6 (21:27):
We'll talk some Lions after that as well. We and
next we're gonna have Zach Osterman from the Indie Star
on here in a few minutes, uh to talk about
Kurt Signetti and what's happened there and Indiana in the
state of that program, and just well you.

Speaker 5 (21:42):
Could do in your apology during that interview to Kurt Signetti.

Speaker 6 (21:45):
I still think he schedules like ass not apologizing for that,
and he doesn't need to.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
That's what pisses me off.

Speaker 6 (21:50):
He's the hottest coach in the country. Absolutely, it would
still be my first question. I'd be like the hell man, like,
you know, play a Division one schedule.

Speaker 5 (21:58):
He'd be like, Google me, bitch, get off me, I'm
winning games. Nannel.

Speaker 6 (22:04):
Yeah, it's funny how much like Michigan State's coaches have
been asked about Signetti this week. It's because he is
sort of this inconvenient anomaly and and and people are
who wants to hear about that if you're on the
mich Michigan State coach well, and people are studying how
it's how it's happened. And Joe Rossi made some interesting
points today. It's like it's not really like they're running
schemes that are different than other schemes.

Speaker 5 (22:25):
They're not.

Speaker 6 (22:26):
It's just it's it's the discipline, it's what's happening in
the building, and it's the players, and he said you
got to get players. I mean, they've been pretty frank
about it, and and if you read between the lines,
they know they don't exactly have have the guys.

Speaker 5 (22:38):
I Uh.

Speaker 6 (22:40):
It's pretty amazing though, because Kurt Signetti is is a
a thorn for any coach who was hired about the
same time a new coach trying to get things going.
But he's not a determining problem. Jonathan Smith is not.
His tenure is not sort of in peril, as I
wrote here after the game, because of Kurt Signetti. K

(23:00):
is added to a lack of patience, which I think
Kurtzignetti's gonna have one of these four and eight seasons
at some point too. I think you get the portal
wrong one year, the culture whatever. I won't mean he's
a bad coach. I think that stuff is just coming
for college football. It's gonna be hard to and you're
gonna have to deal with it. In some places, are
gonna make a bad hiring a bad move too quickly,
you know, James Franklin, similar to how people feel in

(23:20):
house at Michigan State, where you can look from a
far and go it doesn't make sense people there were
just tired of it. We're tired of it, and so
there it makes more sense now. It's a huge buyout,
and it's a risk because he had won at a
level that's harder to replace. If Michigan State were to
make a move on Jonathan Smith, you're placing a guy
who hasn't won. You know, it's easier to clip.

Speaker 5 (23:40):
Penn State before the season was like minus three ninety
to make the college football Playoff. I just think if
you give a scenario with Franklin and all the things
he's done against top twenty teams or top ten teams
that is in the past, you just have to make
a move no matter what the buyout is, because you
want to keep up with all these other schools that
are sitting there paying these other guys and buying out.
I mean, it's not even close to the Jimbo Fisher one, right,

(24:03):
that was the craziest buyout with Texas A and M
that was like seventy two million.

Speaker 6 (24:07):
So well that's in Yeah, So what is is this
one's second all time?

Speaker 5 (24:11):
Right?

Speaker 6 (24:11):
The UH and Smith's will be third? Would be would
be third if it'll be third before uh, before we
before we get to Zach Uh. The most entertaining thing
I saw this week and this weekend, and we will
get into this a little bit later with Cody was
the Tigers game UH presented by Exfinity UH and Exfinity
Mobile TV and Streaming I. I I broke a treadmill.

(24:36):
I walked so much during that game because I just
said I'm going to keep walking till this game is over.
It went like fifteen innings. I went like eleven twelve miles.
And because I didn't start till later in the game,
and it was a big deal because he was a
huge guy, and I just broke my chair and the
treadmill gave out, and now it doesn't work as well
and I have to order another one on the warranty.
But it was an incredible game. It was one of it.
It is one of the most. Yeah, until he is not,

(24:57):
I don't know everybody's saw about. This is gonna be
on MLBU class for years to come. I don't want
to watch that shit ever again. As a Tigers fan.
It wasn't a great game. It sucked ass. We left
runners in scoring position, by the way. We when we
were in Denver, Teresa and I stayed with the a
friend of ours who officiated our wedding, and it was
her first ever baseball game she ever watched, So fifteen

(25:20):
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We'll be right back. We'll talk with Zach Osterman about
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Speaker 5 (28:47):
Very please.

Speaker 6 (28:47):
Now to have a good friend and great writer for
the Indie Star who covers Indiana football, the Juggernaut that
is also a giant Liverpool fan, which is what we're
here to talk talk about. Zach Osterman, Zach, how you doing.

Speaker 7 (29:03):
I'm so a little worried about what I've walked into
here and that that was that intro? You know, it's
I mean, it's it's it's only one thirty five pm
in the Eastern time zone. I'm not sure we're ready
for that just yet. Let's let's see where, Let's see
where the let's see where the afternoon takes us.

Speaker 6 (29:19):
You should always be worried about what you walk into
on the show. You never you never know, Okay, so
what what you're covering is very different than what what
what I'm covering up here with Michigan State. Kurt Signetti,
did you, like, on a scale of uh one, two ten,

(29:39):
is this a ten of of anything you thought was
in the realm of possibility when he took over the program?

Speaker 7 (29:47):
Probably close to it. And it's been because of the
scale of it, right, Like it's I mean, it's like
I thought he would win it Indiana simply because he's
won everywhere he's been, you know, fourteen winning seasons in
fourteen years. It kind of doesn't matter what level of
football you're coaching, Like that just suggests you have that
gene a little bit, but at this level, at this

(30:13):
scale and not you know, I mean, it's been the
nature of the way they're winning these games. It's been
the progress obviously. You know, so much was made after
last season of the Ohio State and the Notre Dame
games just opposed against everything else in the schedule, and
Indiana turns around and you know, ten months later is

(30:35):
beating Illinois by fifty three and then winning on the
road at Oregon and almost like just answering every question
that pops up, is it is it is sort of
like the comprehensive nature of it, all the kinds of
games they're winning, the way they're winning them, and also
just if you watch them. I mean, you and I

(30:56):
have seen plenty of football in our lives. They're just
a really good football team. So you know, they're clean,
they're smart, they're tough, they don't make mistakes. They're best
players are probably their best leaders, are probably their toughest players.

Speaker 8 (31:13):
You know.

Speaker 7 (31:13):
Obviously the Staft's been together for a long time, Like
it's just it is a And I said this a
lot last year around this time, where I said, you know,
I don't know exactly where this is going, but it's
it's a good football team. I'll say it again. But
obviously I think we can all recognize the ceiling is
higher now. I don't know exactly where this is going,
but it's just a really really good football team.

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (31:34):
I mean the Illinois game was one thing, right, It's
that moment where you go, wow, that's because Illinois is
a solid team, and then you go out to Oregon
you just look like the better team. I mean, it
makes it just different than last year, Like it's a
team that all of a sudden you think, well, I
guess they might have the capability of winning it all,
and then obviously there can be a team or two
better that they can't be, but we don't know that yet.
Based on who they've played, what makes them different than

(31:57):
last year? Like last year was a real story, there's
a lot of I've thought they maximized who they were
and obviously you brought you know, half your starters come
over from James Madison, which has been a really good team.
They understand the system, there's buying, there's all that stuff.
What makes year two even better than year one?

Speaker 7 (32:18):
Well, I think there a few things. Number One, I
think they were turned, you know enough from last season.
Even I mean they did lose some pieces, right, they
lose Curtis Rourke. You know, they lose a few wide receivers.

Speaker 8 (32:28):
They lose their.

Speaker 7 (32:29):
Top two running backs, their starting center, some pieces on defense,
but you still had All Conference in All America caliber players,
you know, at a number of skilled positions. I think
the offensive line is probably better than it was a
season ago.

Speaker 8 (32:43):
To some of that's development of guys that.

Speaker 7 (32:44):
Are now in you're three under Bob Bostad, the line coach.
Year two in this offense. Some of it's also going
out and getting it. You know, a player like Pat
Cougan to replace Mike Kdick, who was a very good center.
I think Cougan's been just as good, if not maybe
in some ways a little bit better.

Speaker 8 (32:59):
And that's a slot.

Speaker 7 (33:00):
And Kik is just Coogan is a really good player.
And I think also and maybe this is something that
is starting to manifest himself a little bit more in
the last few weeks. You know, I think a lot
of people took note of Isaiah Jones, for example, the
linebacker who played so well in the Oregon win and
right now has the most tackles for Loston any player.

Speaker 8 (33:19):
In the conference. We spent so much of.

Speaker 7 (33:22):
Last season talking about transfers, talking about those G and
U players you reference. You know, there are some players
starting to bubble up through this roster that are just
developing because this is a natural sort of inflection point
in their careers.

Speaker 8 (33:35):
You know, Jones.

Speaker 7 (33:38):
Is he played some last year. This is kind of
a natural next step for him as a player. The
staff really likes Mario Landino and Tyrek Tucker, each in
his own way. It was kind of a James Madison
transfer Landino was committed to James Madison and then flipped
when the staff came over. Tucker transferred into the red
shirt freshman, but really didn't get you know, a lot

(33:58):
of attention because he was kind of a little bit,
you know, he wasn't one of the main contributors coming
over from Harrisonburg. Those two have really really taken a
step forward this year, and I think it's you know,
for him, Mendoza obviously gets a ton of justified headlines.
We didn't know how limited Curtis Rourke was because we
didn't know about the knee injury through all of last season.

Speaker 8 (34:22):
But I think you can see even some.

Speaker 7 (34:24):
Things maybe that Mendoza can do that Roorke couldn't do,
possibly in part because of the physical limitations. But I
can't really get away from they are just better at
both lines of scrimmage. And some of that it's development
of guys that were really good last year. Some of
it is transfers they brought in. Some of it is
young players just stepping into more snaps, bigger roles, more opportunities,

(34:48):
and you know it's I mean, I don't think I
ever thought I'd see the day that an Indiana defensive
front six, or really front seven, because they'll play free
linebackers you know a lot. That's how much they trust
the athleticism of those three.

Speaker 8 (35:01):
You know that an Indiana.

Speaker 7 (35:03):
Defensive front seven would look as good as it did
against a team like Oregon in Austin Stadium last weekend.

Speaker 6 (35:10):
Indian is a great example, I think, in the modern
era of of what momentum does for you to write.
It allows you to make other players want to be
a part of your program from one year to the next,
and you're no longer you know building. You know, it
used to be you could have a really good year,
but you knew you were going to be younger the
next year, and there wasn't much you could do about it,
and it sort of momentum took a dip. Success wasn't
always linear, and that sort of stuff. A couple questions

(35:33):
for you here. One is like, obviously, there's the momentum
of the players they brought in, but you and I
have talked about this and the just the enthusiasm from
the donor base, the money people, the fan base to
sustain this and build on it. At a place that's

(35:53):
always been known as a basketball school, can you speak
to that and like, what the idea that this is
not just a blip, that this is where Indiana's investment
now is.

Speaker 5 (36:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (36:05):
I mean I tell people, and I've had this conversation
a lot more recently, like this is a football school now.
And I'm not saying basketball can't you know, get it back,
or that they're like that there are going to be
three thousand people in every basketball game this winter. There
is still culturally, you know, tremendous emotional, financial, physical investment
in basketball here. But and this is no knock on

(36:28):
Darreen DeVries. It's just about where the success is happening.
And it's also, you know, let's be fair, it is
also about the the reflection of where we are in
college sports. And I think Indiana up to and including
the flex director of the university, president of the board
of Trustee's all recognized personally they made the higher and

(36:50):
then again when they saw the kind of success Signetti
could deliver that agency in football is just a currency
that cannot be matched in modern college athletics. And the
boat has been pushed out so far in terms of
donor engagement, in terms of fundraising in NIL Obviously, Indiana

(37:10):
has has fully funded its it's redshare commitments. You know,
they've gone over the top on that and pretty significantly
in NIL. I don't know an exact number, but my
understanding is it's it's you know, pretty much the kind
of thing where the coach looks at it and says,
you know that that means I've got what I need.
Of course, we don't know exactly how that number is
going to get attenuated because Indiana, like a lot of schools,

(37:31):
frontloaded all of it's NIL money, so none of it
would have to spoke to the clearinghouse this year. So
how does that kind of stabilize or not, depending on
you know, what happens with the CSC and the NIL
go process. But like just in general, the energy, the interest,
the money, everything around here, this this place has embraced

(37:55):
football at a level that that and I don't mean
to sound hyper with this, at a level that you
really just wouldn't believe because and I think you and
I had this conversation recently. You know, it's it's not
just the last two years, Like football has been consistently
more competitive in the last ten to eleven years, in

(38:15):
basketball has and and basketball has had this sort of
succession of you know, false dawns, and they've you know,
they're they're on their fourth coach and what nine seasons
I think, or maybe eight seasons. I guess it's nine seasons.
You know, they've been to three of the last ten
NCAA tournaments. I think they've you know that if you

(38:36):
look at just the last nine years, there's something like
fifteen games under five hundred and Big ten play. Meanwhile,
Indiana has been to the postseason in football six include
this season, six times in the last eleven years and
a three different head coaches. This is the third different
year in the last six that Indiana has at some
point in the season been ranked in the top ten nationally.
You know, if you want to go back to the

(38:57):
COVID season, and I know people see that a little
bit differently, but that means it's also three years in
the last sixth Indiana has been in the thick of
things in the conference title race in October. Like football
has given this fan base more frankly, even independent of
just how high it's climbed in the last you know,
twenty twenty one months, then basketball has in the same

(39:20):
period of time, and so it's a it's kind of
a collision of football was already maybe starting to capture
some hearts and minds that you wouldn't have expected before
Kurt Signetti comes in, and then once it gets super
charged the way it has been, everybody recognizes there's an
opportunity here to just absolutely hit the ground sprinting.

Speaker 6 (39:44):
Is there any fear of losing Signetti? And obviously he's
sixty four, So if he was forty four, you know
you'd wonder if he was a lifer. But what is
a lifer at sixty four? I mean, that's the year
I think I'm told Mark D'Antonio was when he retired.
If I'm correct, that I could be could be off
off a year. But the and Signetti doesn't look like

(40:05):
a guy who's stopped and he's finally gotten this opportunity.
This is his peak, this is his prime. But a
job like Penn State comes open, and I'm sure they'll
take a big swing, And anybody who's going to take
a massive swing, it's going to be first and foremost
probably at Signetti. Do you sense that, I mean, how
much fear is there on that? And do you sense
that Indiana will will be able to retain him.

Speaker 7 (40:27):
I think they're certainly going to do everything they can.
And I always tell people with this stuff, you know,
all it ever takes is one right like all it
ever takes is is the right phone call, the right contract.

Speaker 8 (40:38):
Whatever.

Speaker 7 (40:39):
I do think even in this kind of quick turnarounds,
Era Signetti's you know, his age is probably you know
something that if you are kind of selling that long
term vision, especially in a place like Penn State, like
I don't I don't know if that's a you know,
he said he wants to coachally seventy five. I don't
know if that is somehow sort of like a mark

(41:03):
in the con column at some point. The one thing
I will say more than anything else is and I
think it's important to note, like talk to people in
college athletics. Obviously, coaches they want comfortable salaries, they want
staffing pools and all that. Coaches want to win, and
they just want to be somewhere that they know they
can win and that they're going to have the resources
and they're going to be compensated comfortably and according to

(41:26):
their merits. But the thing they want more than anything
else is just to be able to win. And I
do not think that, you know, giving where obviously the
big ten media rights money is given, and we don't
have to get into the philosophical you know, sort of rights.

Speaker 8 (41:43):
And wrongs of all this today.

Speaker 7 (41:45):
But given the potential for this nine figure per school
private equity capital infusion that might be coming down the
pike in the next few weeks or months or however
long it takes, there's not going to be an even
quasi reasonable amount of money that someone else can offer
Kurt Signetti, whether that is in his salary, his staffing pool,

(42:09):
obviously his red share budget, you know, different resources. Indiana
is in the process of beginning a pretty substantial renovation
of Memorial Stadium. That if Signette's the head coach, he's
going to have a very heavy hand and it won't
be financial, is what I'm trying to say. If somebody

(42:30):
pulls Kurt Signetti away, and what I would say is
that I would even go back.

Speaker 8 (42:34):
To kind of his comments.

Speaker 7 (42:35):
You know, he did the interview with BigMan and Kickoff
after he signed his contract last season and he said,
kind of unprompted, people ask me, why do you assign
this contract when maybe your name will be connected to
that job or that job. Why don't you, you know,
why don't you stretch your legs in the in the
in the coaching carousel in the winter and then see
where things stand. He said they were very proactive. I

(42:56):
think that was also where he said were the emerging
superpower of college football, which I mean, maybe they are.
I don't know at this point. Maybe maybe he wasn't lying,
Maybe we all just needed to listen more closely. But
he also said in that interview, and again fairly i'mprompted,
Indiana was proactive. They went to him, they said, what
do you need. They're not going to wait for a

(43:17):
penn State of Florida whoever to come in and name
a price and then try to go over top of that.
They have and they are going to continue to make
the money available as long as they can and as
long as he wants to be in Indiana to keep
Kurt Signetti here. And that's not just like his salary,
it's all of the infrastructure the coach thinks he needs

(43:38):
to be successful. I can't sit here and say with
one hundred percent certainty, no, he's not going anywhere. History
tends to History tends to be on my on the
side that he probably isn't. And I'm not talking about
Indiana's history. I'm talking about the larger history of higher life,
for example, Penn State and what those coaches tend to

(44:00):
look like and who they tend to be. But I
can say it's nothing else. It will not be for
lack of resources, and it will not be for lack
of investment.

Speaker 6 (44:10):
Yeah, and the thing about Pennsy, I don't know that
it's a better job than Indiana right now. It's historically
a better job, but you go to a place that's
looking to go from ten and two to twelve and
oh and that's a that's a different kind of pressure
and thing you've got to meet. And I just at
Indiana like you're you're You're a legend that they will build,
they will build a statue. I also think Signette's a
lesson to like Michigan State that who paid mel Tucker

(44:32):
after the one season, you know, sometimes make sure they
come back for year two and that level of play
is sustained. But yeah, I hope he stays because I'm
happy for Indiana. I think it's it's a cool story.
I'm happy that he's gotten this opportunity. You know, it's
a lesson to athletic directors and administrations to stop hiring
search firms and do deep dives and who's the guy

(44:54):
at a smaller level, who's waiting for that chance and
call around and figure out who those people are. And
because there are other coach out there, I don't know
if they're how many Kurt Signettes there are, but there's
probably another one. And that's the job, not to win
the press conference, but to find the guy. And uh now,
Signetti won big and James Madison and was you also
win the press conference to some degree with him? But

(45:14):
that same coach was available a couple of years earlier,
and maybe he would have brought as many guys, but
they would have been they would have been pretty pretty
good this week. One of the things I've noticed about
Signetti is he does not lay off the pedal. Michigan
State is a wounded wounded team coaching staff, you know,
coaching to keep their era alive. What are the odds

(45:36):
this is competitive? And what's the mindset coming off a
cross country trip to Oregon where you have this massive win.
Do you think they stay focused and put one on
Michigan State?

Speaker 8 (45:48):
Yeah? I think, I mean I asked.

Speaker 7 (45:50):
I got the first question in Monday press conference and
I asked Signetti something about Vanam and Doza, and he
proceeded to ignore my question and just talk about complacency
and and I think his his term was ripping the
rearview mirror off and moving on from Oregon. Like, I
think that is pretty much going to define an entire
message this week. And I think he's aware of that

(46:11):
because you know, obviously that's the kind of win that
you know, sometimes it's sometimes it's it's hard to get
over right, Like sometimes that's a that's a hard win
to kind of put behind you. In Indiana, even the
Illinois game, even the Michigan game last year or whatever,
Indiana hasn't had a win like that. I think, what
I what I what I would have said before the
Oregon game. And I guess maybe this is kind of

(46:31):
the ultimate test, is that Signetti, like you know, at
least one of his famous mentors, as that inate ability
that all coaches chase, and that I think a lot
of coaches never quite find to just only ever get focus, effort,

(46:54):
toughness and intensity from their team if you beat Indiana,
at least on the evident we have so far, and
it's a small sample size, it's what nineteen games now,
But if you beat Indiana, you do it on your merits.
You know that. That's what we learned with from last season.
That's what we have learned so far this season. If
you're better than Indiana, if you're deeper, if your scheme

(47:15):
is better or your plan is better, you've got more athletes,
you got better, you're better at the.

Speaker 8 (47:19):
Line of scrim and you'll beat them.

Speaker 7 (47:21):
But you won't beat them because they don't take you seriously.
You won't beat them because they won't stay focused. You
won't beat them because they'll overlook you. And obviously, you know,
Indiana's playing the program that invented football next weekend in
UCLA and what might be the biggest big thing game ever.
So you know, maybe maybe maybe this is the ultimate
test in that direction too. But that has always been

(47:44):
to my eyes, one of Signette's greatest sort of intangible
abilities as a coach. You know, if you think about
like the earlier this season, and I won't ramble on forever,
but they played Indiana State in their last non conference
game and then they played Illin in their first conference
game back to back weeks, and in both games they

(48:04):
pulled their starters. Indiana State, I think they pulled their
starters after one drive in the third quarter. Illinois they
let their starters go through the end of the third quarter.
And in the fourth quarter of both games, they threw
it a little bit against Indiana State to get the
backup quarterback Fernanda Mendoza's little brother Alberto coincidentally, just a
few pass attempts just give them some game reps. They

(48:26):
did not throw the ball once in the fourth quarter
against Illinois. They just ran it with their third slash,
fourth string running back Kobe Martin, and he was their
leading rusher in both games. He rushed for over one
hundred yards in both games despite not touching the ball
until the third quarter against Indiana State. And I don't
think the fourth quarter against Illinois, and there was this

(48:47):
perception of, especially with the Illinois game, they're running it up.
They're just they're they're trying to put it on everybody
all the time. They didn't throw the ball in the
fourth quarter, and they weren't being that creative about what
they were doing running it either. It was just a
lot of half back power off tackles don't reads stuff.
The only reason they had starting linemen in the game,
I think was to protect their backup quarterback. As long
as Illinois had its starting front six in the game,

(49:10):
and they were still just tearing off ten twelve twenty
yard runs. And that is that to me, was a
window into this roster's ability. From your number ones all
the way down to your number fives, from your seniors
to your freshmen. It doesn't matter if it's Indiana State,
it doesn't matter if it's Illinois. There is just this
focus and this intensity that never waivers. And I think

(49:33):
that is the greatest sort of unmeasurable quality Signette can
get into his roster. I would be surprised if Indiana
is not serious.

Speaker 8 (49:45):
About Michigan State this weekend.

Speaker 7 (49:46):
Now it's a rivalry game, it looks like it's going
to be a rainy day. You know, you never know,
right Like I get that, especially in college sports, you
never know. But I would be surprised if Indiana is.

Speaker 5 (49:59):
Not ready for this.

Speaker 6 (50:01):
Sounds good for Michigan State. The It's one of d'antonio's
greatest traits was that it was how they did after
Michigan and Ohio State and how good they were in
those weeks and the games they should won, and that
really changed the perception and the ability to sustain things
for the program. Zach, I will see you in the
press box on Saturday, my man, and I appreciate all the.

Speaker 7 (50:21):
Time absolutely thanks for having me as always.

Speaker 6 (50:26):
So what Jason, what's your prediction now?

Speaker 5 (50:29):
Seventy to three? Okay, Sage. By the way, I was
thinking about him at Penn State and you mentioned the age.
I just don't see. I mean the thirteen million dollar buyout.
And by the way, if Signetti and Indiana make the
College Football Playoff, that contract of his becomes fully guaranteed.
So if he makes the College Football Playoff this year,
Indiana owes him the full full contract. And if you're

(50:51):
Penn State, you would have to buy him out at
this thirteen million dollar price. You'd have to pay Indiana
that correct beyond for the Franklin thing whatever that is, right,
So you'd have to You're doing all of these things,
and like you said, I don't think Signetty would want
that Penn State job.

Speaker 6 (51:03):
I just I don't. I just think you got a
good thing happened here. Penn State's in a tough spot.
Because of the I'm not saying Michigan State's in a
good spot, but it is really hard to take a
perennial ten and two program and improve it a team that.

Speaker 5 (51:15):
Was you just got to win big games here and there.
You can lose two.

Speaker 6 (51:19):
The problem is, though, what James Franklin did is he ultimately,
I mean, he recruited at an incredibly high level. So
before you can be at the level that Penn State
was at and then take the next step, you got
to continue to recruit at that level, which takes a
certain type of person. Again, there's there's the finances involved
in Penn State will have the money and and there

(51:40):
are things like that in terms of.

Speaker 5 (51:41):
What if Michigan State hired Franklin as the recruiting coordinator.
He didn't coach at all. He just goes out and recruits.
He's our guy. Penn State's paying him eight MILS, so
we break him off one hundred k. There you go. Deal.
I figured this whole thing out, low pressure job. You know,
come in, you get paid with it. I just think
that you could lose two games in this college football

(52:02):
playoff scenario that we have currently in college football. You
just if you have the record against top five teams
like Franklin had, you just something has to give, and
then losing those games that he did this year and
being three and three when everybody in the planet thought
you were going to make the college football Playoff.

Speaker 6 (52:17):
I just, yeah, yeah, I know, I I I like
say Natty, I just I don't know, well, I like
his whole vibe. Oh absolutely, And look, he can be.
I think one of the things that held him back
in life is he can be. He's perceived as a
bit of a jerk. And oh absolutely, yeah, it could be.

Speaker 5 (52:31):
A jerk too. If all of these like yeah, and
all the things you have to deal with.

Speaker 6 (52:35):
Yeah, I can take this little guy, not little, I mean,
but yeah, he looked.

Speaker 5 (52:39):
Great through you. I know, I look through Osterman's question
about Mendoza saying, because I gotta say, I think I
would go with the signetti. You're out, Like how many
questions we got to answer.

Speaker 6 (52:47):
About Mendoza, Hey man, when you're winning like that and
your fiery and people in like in Indiana, I've seen
a lot of stuff, but I think that's.

Speaker 5 (52:53):
What a lot of you speak of fiery. And then
there was some call and there was video of Signetti
losing his ship. I think as a fan, not just
that Michigan State, but as a Lions fan, like I
know Dan Campbell does a good job of it sometimes,
but you want your coach to not just sit there
all the time. We talked about it was with different
coaches from our past. What's the former Alliance coach called? Well,

(53:13):
that would have the one that you know he would
never just rip his headset down and start yelling at
a ref. You just want a little bit of that that,
you know.

Speaker 6 (53:20):
And the thing is, it's not even it's more you
have to be able to connect. And I like, if
I go back to that Michigan game, and I think
I did a poor job of covering it last year
because I didn't.

Speaker 5 (53:29):
I didn't want to say anything, thank you.

Speaker 6 (53:31):
I do think if he had come into that post
game and said, yeah, that can't happen again, not just
the loss, but how it happened on me, my bad.
That's a big freaking game. And we like, if he
had connected in that moment people and and and they
and and.

Speaker 5 (53:50):
That wouldn't have worked out well for him either though,
Why not, because I just think that would have produced
some like, you know, not bulletin board. But people would
have cliped that and been like, you.

Speaker 6 (53:58):
Know, well he's got a They've got to go down
and compete with the contend with the fighting signettes.

Speaker 5 (54:03):
This weekend, we'll see, can we not hire a next guy,
a nice guy for the next hire though he's wanted
a jackass? Seriously, signetti like some guy that's kind of
pissed off, gives back to the media, gives them some
the gives them some ship kind of like izz Oh,
that would be fun, Okay, some personality that's it. Maybe,
I mean, I guess you could still be a nice guy.

Speaker 6 (54:19):
Maybe Izzo in the seventies finally gets to be the
m SU football coach is absolutely dream Before before we
get to uh uh, before we get to Cody and
talk some tigers, uh, I do want to mention before
we took our unexpected uh uh short hiatus vacation, which
by the way, was was you know, I've never gonna
throw anybody under the bus, but was not our fault.
Like I was driving in to do the show you were, uh,

(54:40):
I was driving in. I was almost here, ye yeah yeah,
So it was just a studio uh scheduling mix up,
and that was the time, we had a lot.

Speaker 5 (54:47):
To do it.

Speaker 6 (54:47):
Well, we blame Couch anyway, It's fair and I've made
enough enough gaffes uh to take that blame uh. But
we did have the the contest to win a Muskox
flannel from me from my winnings on the Cleveland Guardians
the division. We are continuing that so throughout this week
you can you can DM me or hashtag Couch in

(55:09):
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pointed out to me that some people don't want the
ugliest photo they've ever taken on the internet, so they
don't want to like send it. So we've gotten a
few some good ones. But through this week if you
want to email me or dm me, you know I
need we need an ugly photo next to your your

(55:31):
best photo because I need to see the contrast. We
need to see the person who's ugliest really needs the Muskox.
And again, regardless, you can go to go Muskox dot
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off a flannel purchase. We'll take a really quick break
when we come back Cody Savenhagen from the Athletic we'll
talk about the Tigers in their offseason. Couching the Room
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Speaker 6 (58:02):
Couching the Root b Our Wednesday Show presented by our
friends at Muskox Quality Flannels. The other thing we missed
and the epic thing that was the most entertaining thing
I saw last week, presented by our friends at Exfinity,
was the fifteen inning Tigers game, which obviously didn't end
the way that people wanted to, but it was an
epic finish to a season I think left a sour

(58:27):
taste some people's mouths just because of what September was
and sort of some concerns about the future. Nobody covers
the Tigers better than Cody Stavenhagen for the athletic who
has been with them. You know, I'm grateful the Tigers
at least turned to corner for Cody because all the
misery and he left covering college football to cover the Tigers,

(58:47):
and then they promptly lost like six straight one hundred
lost seasons. But now he's got, you know, different issues
with the Tigers, Cody, how you doing.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
Man, Hey jener Right, I missed a couple of those
hundred lost seasons. Twenty nineteen was my first, so it
was a rough introduction.

Speaker 6 (59:03):
You've certainly seen enough, You've you've earned covering something something more.

Speaker 5 (59:09):
What the you listen?

Speaker 6 (59:11):
Obviously you're it's got Harris's presser and you know you
What is your big takeaway from what he thinks need
to be needs to be done versus sort of what
you think needs to be done.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
Yeah, I've spent a lot of time kind of trying
to process that press conference. It was it was long,
and it was packed with a lot of information. I'm
not sure it was packed with a lot of answers.
It was kind of a lot of talking aloud about
the questions, just like we're probably about to do.

Speaker 8 (59:43):
I think it was good though.

Speaker 4 (59:45):
That there was a level of acknowledgment about the shortcomings
and the failures of this team. Obviously, Hair's still touted
the things they did well, what they've accomplished the past
two years, the bright future of the farm system, but
I was curious if he was going to keep it
real about the ways this team fell short and for
the most part, he did. I didn't come away with

(01:00:08):
a clear sense of what they think the answer is
or what has to what has to happen this offseason.
There was a lot of talk about the lineup and
the swing and miss, and this team has to be
better at moving the ball forward. I think that has
to come with some form of roster reshaping. It kind
of remains to be seen how much of that the

(01:00:28):
Tigers will do versus how much they're going to coach
up internal guys they're going to you know, when the
guys coming up through the system. I think there's still
a lot of questions how they approach this offseason.

Speaker 6 (01:00:41):
Yeah, I mean, I think it feels like to me,
they're a roster that has some good players, but they
don't have any A level players other than scooball right,
and so like, what do you sense that they think that?

Speaker 7 (01:00:54):
Like?

Speaker 6 (01:00:54):
And obviously, who knows what their top prospects become. There's
a chance, and I think it's good they hung out
of those guys because you'd hate for them to go
somewhere else and then and then really shine. But on
the major league roster right now, there is nobody in
the lineup that you look at and go that's a
guy and carry an offense for a month. Well, I

(01:01:15):
mean for a month, you guys get hot, but you
know what I mean, there's not that guy. Do you
think they understand it? And is there a way to like,
I mean, what's the step to change that some of
the somebody's got to move right. You can't come back,
you can't run it back with the same lineup.

Speaker 4 (01:01:31):
Yeah, I think they know that. I think Scott Harris
and aj Hinch in the front office are a lot
of things, but they're not dumb. They know the reality
of this situation. What remains to be seen is are
they going to fall into the trap of overvaluing some
of their own players, whether that's guys at the major

(01:01:52):
league level like Zach McKinstry or when Soil Perez who
has some strings but aren't realistically all star level players
and o mckinstrum mid the All Star Game this year,
or if that's their prospects right, I mean, so many
organizations can fall in love with prospects and I don't know,
wasn't that long ago Riley Green and Spencer Torkilsen were

(01:02:12):
as heralded as it gets, and they were advanced hitters,
and now they are good but not great major league players.
That's just how it works a lot of the time.
I think the tricky thing about having a young wore
like the Tigers do. They're bringing back everyone except labor Taurus,

(01:02:33):
which in some ways as good and in some ways
is like, well, if you're going to make a change,
who do you move on from? How do you replace
that player? What position are you even targeting. I mean,
they pretty clearly have some playing time open in the infield,
but there's not really from my viewpoint, a clear solution

(01:02:54):
is to hey, go do this and then everything gets better.
They're going to have to be selective about where they
make an addition or who they move on from, and
that might have to mean making some hard decisions about
players they like but maybe don't love.

Speaker 6 (01:03:11):
Yeah, the the Tortlesen Green situation is interesting because obviously
you can win with both those guys in the lineup,
but they have to a very, you know, close to
high degree. I don't know if you can win with
those guys is the heart of your lineup? And so
I mean the question then is do you you know
one's a first base and one's a corner outfielder, which

(01:03:33):
are two you know, big bat positions. Do you think
that both of those guys are still part of their
plan long term?

Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
Yeah, for as long as they're under a team control.
I think they almost have to be. You're not just
going to move on from a first baseman who can
hit you thirty homers if you don't have to. You're
not just going to move on from a left fielder
who were a year ago was a four or five
win player and this year hits six home runs if
you don't have to. Now, I don't that again, it's

(01:04:06):
a hard line. A lot of people always want to
talk like, hey, there Bus, they're terrible, or oh, they
need to be given this lucrative contract extension. I don't like.
I don't think you do one of those things is true.
But I think you have three ish more years of
each of those guys as Tigers, and and you know
four I believe for Riley Green, and you know, we'll

(01:04:27):
see what happens and what you can do in those
in those few years. They're they're certainly part of the
plan for the foreseeable future. Yeah, but to your point,
you know, I think it's becoming clear and clear. They're
good pieces, but not the piece or not the final
pieces you need to win a World Series.

Speaker 6 (01:04:47):
They aren't an interesting spot where you don't want to
block a top prospect, right you know? I mean you
have to and you have to figure out what position
you want different guys to be. And of their top guys,
is they're one that you are most you know on
And and who do you think gets to the majors first?

Speaker 4 (01:05:04):
Yeah, I think it's Kevin McGonagall. I don't really think
it's close. I think he's really advanced. He has a
chance to be really good. And what is he ultimately
at the major leagues? I think depends on a few factors.
A what position does he play? Is he a shortstop?
Is he a second baseman? Is he a third baseman?
It seems like the idea of him being an everyday
shortstop is already dwindling. He's in the Arizona Fall League

(01:05:26):
mostly playing third, and then not much powerable he hit
for at the major league level. I think he's surprised
with the power he hit for this year in the
minor leagues. There have been some Jose Al two Vay comparisons.
I don't hate that at the same time, if he just.

Speaker 7 (01:05:42):
Went on Twitter and what.

Speaker 4 (01:05:43):
You saw, you know, on social media, you would think
he hit like three point thirty in Double A. He didn't.
He hit two fifty eight. So you know, even he
is not one hundred percent perfect. But I think he
can hit. I think it's going to translate. I think
he's going to be a really good major league player.
I think he's the only one that IM all in on.
There are things to like about these other guys. Was
where Persinia is a good hitter, has really good power.

(01:06:05):
Max Clark.

Speaker 7 (01:06:08):
Really good hitter.

Speaker 4 (01:06:08):
But is he the elite defender? He was billed as
is he e lite on the basis like he was
billed as how much power does he hit for at
the major league level? Like there are questions in Max
Clark's game. Doesn't mean he's going to be a bust,
but is he an All Star? Is he Corbyn Carroll
or is he more of a Parker Meadows type like that?

(01:06:29):
These are the problems with prospects. You just never quite
know until they get there, or in some cases a
couple of years after they get there. But I think
McGonagall will be there soon and will be the best
of the bunch.

Speaker 6 (01:06:41):
Are there guys you're certain they move on from, Like
I mean, Parker Meadow is an interesting case, right, He's
just I mean, boy, we've seen him just invigorate that
team at some point, and and there are moments where
you just think, boy, that that guy. You know, you've
just seen it, and and and so you want to
trust it. And then he'll go through stretches where it's
just just doesn't look like a major league hitter. I'm

(01:07:03):
wondering what you think they do with him? Is there
anybody you're sure they move on from?

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Not really, you know, I think I don't envy those decisions,
and that in some ways, there's some guys who are
a big part of things this year that, if you're
really trying to get to the next level, might not
be a big part of things next year. Now, that
doesn't mean they're going to trade on more DFA and again,
controllable players with some upside. It's hard to just move

(01:07:31):
on from those guys. Now, those who have options remaining
and can go to Toledo, that might become a more
real factor for some of these players. But I don't know, Yeah,
I think it's hard decisions about guys like Parker Meadows
and Winstle Perez and maybe even Colt Keith to a degree.
Jake Rodgers is your backup catcher. He's due to make

(01:07:52):
four or five million. Is that worth it for the leadership?
The intangible stuff Trey Sweeney is so any faith in him?
I don't know that it's hard to see them just
outright like non tendering players like this, But I also
think it would be a mistake to just lock all
of them back into the roles they had this year.

(01:08:14):
So that's why it's hard.

Speaker 6 (01:08:16):
Of the free agents, who do you think has a
realistic chance of coming back? Finagan, Flerty, Clavored Torres, of course,
Rafael Montero, like anybody who's you think is was coming back.

Speaker 4 (01:08:32):
I think Finagan would make a lot of sense. You know,
he seemed to like his time with the Tigers. They
helped him unlock some things get a little bit better.
There wasn't a great market for him in free agency
last season. The Tigers need more bullpen help, so Carl
Finigan would make a lot of sense to bring back.
Flaherty will be an interesting case. He has a player option.
I don't know if he'll accept it. If he declined it,

(01:08:54):
it's twenty million. The qualifying offer is twenty two million.
So let's say he declines the twenty million player option
to the Tigers, then extend him the twenty two million
qualifying offer or would they rather just move on? That's
a hard call. Glaber Torres, you know, wasn't great down
the stretch. We learned he was playing through a hernia.

(01:09:15):
Still gives you a really good quality that that it's
not a great defender. But I don't think he's going
to get one hundred million he once wanted. If you
could get him on another one or two year deal,
would that even make more sense than coughing up five
or six years for Alex Bregman, who's going to be
a year older. Those are real questions. So I don't

(01:09:37):
think you could rule out re upping with Glaber Torres,
but in terms of a guy who makes sense, and
I think it would be easy and there's really no
other moving pieces. It's Kyle Finnigan.

Speaker 6 (01:09:49):
So the four hundred million dollar question, obviously is what
happens with school between now and the end of next year.
And I'm you know, I'm sure if you knew percent
you'd you'd be the greatest prognosticator in baseball writing history.
But what is your sense of what they're thinking right now?

Speaker 4 (01:10:13):
It just seems like they're open to everything, including a trade.
Scott Harris had a chance to shut down a winter
of speculation about the lay trade Trek Scoobel, and he
did not do that. He gave a blanket and basically
I'm not going to comment on that whole situation, which
to me felt like his way of saying, Hey, we're

(01:10:34):
going to see what happens, and we're going to listen
to offers. I think it's going to be really hard
for them to resign trek'scoogle. I keep saying this, I've
been saying it. They could offer him one bill, and
Scott Boris might say, hey, that's great. We're still gonna wait,
we're gonna take this free agency. We're gonna see if
the yankeeser Dodgers want to offer one point one billion.

Speaker 3 (01:10:56):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:10:57):
I just the idea of resigning him long term, or
at least getting that done before he hits free agency,
seems incredibly slim. And so then I really think the
Tigers have to pick a lane, which is either get
a little more aggressive about putting up building up a
roster around Turk Scoble next season, or you have to
look long and hard at trading him. They're not going
to trade him for nothing. It would have to be

(01:11:18):
a sizeable package of talent, perhaps some major league ready talent.
But I think it seems like that's way more on
the table than maybe people first thought, or maybe some
people are willing to admit. But if they're not considering it,
I think Scott Harris would have shot it down a.

Speaker 5 (01:11:36):
Little more than he did Lastie.

Speaker 6 (01:11:38):
What's what's your sense of, like your optimism about the
state of this club overall, the sustainability, that the odds
that they'll be they'll take that step, and obviously there
are no guarantees in the postseason a lot. You know,
you can have the greatest regular season and but that
there'll be a team that looks more formidable entering the
postseason and that they are on track to be that

(01:12:01):
for you know, the next few years. What's your level
of confidence in that?

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
Yeah, I feel like it's kind of complicated because I
look at twenty twenty six and it's like, how are
they if they trade Schooble they're going to take a
step back, right, or okay, you have to add more pitching.
Even if you get Alex Bregman or whatever, a player
of that caliber, how much better does that make you?

(01:12:28):
I still fear next year they're going to run out
a rot unless there's some really creative changes. They're going
to run out a roster that's picked to win eighty
three games and you hope it can win eighty eight games,
which is kind of what it's been the last couple
of years, and it's so then it gets.

Speaker 7 (01:12:44):
Easy to be negative about it.

Speaker 4 (01:12:46):
But then you take a step back and you think, well,
how many organizations are really in.

Speaker 7 (01:12:49):
A better position?

Speaker 4 (01:12:51):
Back to back playoff appearance is a top fliveform system,
a lot of young talent on the major league roster,
a lot of payroll flexibility. They're not that many other
than the Dodgers or maybe a couple other payroll bohemos.
There are not many teams you'd rather want to be
than the Tigers. They do have all the markers of
being set up for success for the next five years

(01:13:13):
at least, but you do have to get some hard
decisions right to avoid taking a step back where the
Baltimore Orioles are the perfect example that young talent and
a young core doesn't always translate to the sustainable, linear
success you think it is going to. So that's a
long way of saying like they're in a pretty good position,
but there's still a lot of things coming they have

(01:13:33):
to get right.

Speaker 6 (01:13:34):
Do you think that you talk about those payroll behemoths.
I mean, I don't know that the Tigers ever be that,
but they're not a small market club. And sometimes I
wonder if anybody's explained that to Chris Ilitch's like, this
is still Detroit. It's still a top fifteen market. It
used to be a top ten. It's a big you know,
do you think they will financially do what's necessary when

(01:13:55):
the opportunities are there.

Speaker 5 (01:13:58):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:14:00):
Since I've covered the team, it's always kind of been, well,
they'll spend when the time is right, and I think
in some ways they've They signed Hobby Bayas and Eduardo Rodriguez,
they were not afraid to spend before the twenty twenty
two season. Hovey Bia has just ended up being a
terrible contract, and Eduardo Rodriguez, You've got two pretty good
years on it. They made it offered Alex Bregman last year,

(01:14:24):
but they didn't up the AAV they didn't get the
deal done, So they've spinned, but they haven't acted like
the Dodgers. Does that mean they're being cheap? I don't
quite think so. But is there a deeper level of
aggression when when you have back to back playoff appearances,
when it appears you're not that far away from being

(01:14:45):
a World Series caliber team. I'd like to think they're
at the point now where they have to get a
little bit more aggressive, spend a little bit more, but
we haven't quite seen that yet. And it goes beyond
Chris Ilich. Is Scott air is a fan of spending?

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
Is he?

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
I don't think he's a fan of long term contracts
because that comes with inherent risk. So, like everything else, like,
it's kind of a complicated question to answer.

Speaker 6 (01:15:16):
Well, I don't thinknybody's going to leave this interviewing feeling
better than they were when they started. But your insight,
Cody is always very much appreciated, man, your work on
the athletic and I hope you get a few weeks
and months off here.

Speaker 4 (01:15:31):
Yeah, I think we'll have some clarity as this winner
goes along, Like I do want to reiterate like there's
a pretty healthy organization. Scott Harris gets a lot of heat,
but he's done a lot of good in three years.
But like I said, like the decisions coming and what
it takes to get from good to great is probably
the hardest step for any organization in pro sports, and

(01:15:52):
that's kind of where the Tigers are right now.

Speaker 5 (01:15:55):
Appreciate you man, We'll talk to him. Thanks so much,
all right, appreciate it. That's uh. Cody's even hanging from
the athletic depressed. Yeah, I was depressing his ship. Man
made the playoffs back to back years, and I hate
this team with a passion. How about no more Scott Harris,

(01:16:15):
th and aj Hinch pressers.

Speaker 6 (01:16:16):
We don't We're good. We'll see you guys in April. Yeah,
I listened to the whole thing you did. I did, Yes,
it was I wasn't you know.

Speaker 5 (01:16:24):
Harris is like you. He just like if he doesn't
have an he'll just talk and talk and then you
just go, oh, what was he taught? I forgot what
we were talking.

Speaker 6 (01:16:31):
It doesn't need to be a spin zone thing, dude,
He's got the spin zone. Here's Here's the thing about
the reason I listened to the whole thing is I
the things I was reading on Twitter and the clips
I were seeing, I would see comments underneath it would
say like this really misses context. This is what he
was asked and this is what he was saying. And
I felt like I wasn't getting the whole picture from
just the snippets, which oft often happens. Right, there should

(01:16:51):
be certain things where like you're not allowed to tweet this.
You're not allowed because we can't get the full context.
And I would urge people to listen to the whole
thing it is. It's I did anyone ask Scott Harris?
I watched the Dodgers last night? How in the hell
would we compete with the team like that?

Speaker 5 (01:17:08):
That was not the question that was now, Yeah, well
I would like it. I know, I'd like an honest
answer from both of AJ and Scott Harris of when
you watch the Dodgers. I know you guys are busy.
You probably haven't, but now that you're you're off and
you can watch games. When you watch the Dodgers, how
far away are we from the Dodgers? Let alone Seattle,
every everybody is you know, payroll a long way from

(01:17:29):
the Dodgers, but that's it doesn't matter. The Dodgers in
a lot of ways are unless they win a World Series.
He wasted money, I don't know, but just teams that
pick up players before the trade deadline, and as Farez
with Seattle, like, I understand that and I can understand
appreciate it. Just didn't perform that well. He did decent.
I mean, he went a lot better than you know.
He probably wouldn't leave as many runners in scoring position
as our guys did. But I don't know, I just

(01:17:52):
I can't. I've never been a part of a team
that just absolutely kicks me in the dick and balls
over and over again, and I'm like, oh, I can't
wait till next year. You know. It's just like Mike
and my problem.

Speaker 6 (01:18:02):
With Riley Green and some of the Tigers hitters is
I feel like there's a lot of he strikes out
upgrade of Hobby Bias, right, It's like, I mean bias.
First of all, I'll say this about Bias and what
he was in the postseason. I sometimes forget how good
he is in big moments. Sure, and so whatever the
Tigers do and his contract's going to keep him on
the roster. Just make sure he's on the roster in

(01:18:22):
the playoffs, because that's it. That is a guy you
want in Game eighty two and the seventh inning when
he's bored. I'm not sure I want Hobby Bias at
the plate, but in game uh, you know, one seventy,
I want him at the play.

Speaker 5 (01:18:36):
But I don't think comparing Riley Green to Hobby Bias
is really fair. I mean, the guy is an All Star,
and you look at other than the strikeouts. Strikeouts are brutal, right,
but he had one hundred and fifty five hits, thirty
six home runs, and one hundred and eleven arbist's in
a terrible, terrible lineup, consistently surrounded by garbage. I don't know,
if you put anything around Riley Green, maybe he changes
his strikeout rate. I don't know that. But you can't

(01:18:57):
get rid of a guy who's homegrown, a top ten pick,
who's actually producing great glove. I know his glove, that
the numbers are down for his glove in the outfield
this year. But I mean, I just don't it's going
in the wrong direction. If we're talking about getting rid
of a Riley Green torque. You can talk me into
if Tork goes away. Now I'm like, all right, man,
all right, Tork, good luck to you. We can stop
airing those Cure auto fucking commercials now. But I just

(01:19:19):
don't get back, you know, and listen to Cody's like say,
I don't know if there's gonna be any changes, like
you don't. I just can't believe looking at that line
of the utility of the Bats like to go, ah,
I don't know if we need to do anything next year.
Let's run it back with McKinstry or especially if Bregman's
sitting out there and he's opting out of his Red
Sox contract. I mean, you gotta make something happen for

(01:19:39):
next year. And as far as Schoobol, I've kind of
I don't know if this is a Scott Boris thing.
I mean, there was speculation whether or not Boris had
something to do with having schoob Bol come out of
the game when he did, because we know that he
could pitch way longer than that. And if you're gonna
sit there and ask for a contract as bizarre and
insane as Boris is gonna ask for for U schoob Ball.

(01:19:59):
I don't mind letting Schooble go if we can get
some sort of trade for him before the season. I
just think if we sit there and roll the dice
with him for this next year because he's under contract,
are you gonna be able to trade him for anything
at the deadline unless you have some sort of sign
and trade with another team?

Speaker 8 (01:20:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (01:20:14):
You use what team is gonna want to trade you
a bunch of assets if they don't have the agreement.

Speaker 6 (01:20:19):
With schoobl Yeah, you got to go out and get pitching.
I mean, it's nice to have schoobl but like it is,
but I mean, like you know, beginning of the season,
midway through the season, like we gotta pay school.

Speaker 5 (01:20:27):
You gotta pay school. But now I'm watching the pitch count.
I just if he was a horse and went into
the eighth inning and right, and maybe it's one hundred
and twenty pitches, one and thirty pitches, I'd go, let's
pay this dude. I want to see this guy every
five starts. But you know, these guys get pulled after
six innings. And if you're gonna sit there and do that,
if it's your client, and that's what you have with

(01:20:47):
you know, I would wish that there was more transparency
with what's going on with this organization. That's the problem
I have with Scott Harris. I just think there's a
lot of things that are hidden and we're not being
realistic and talking about things transparent and you need.

Speaker 6 (01:21:00):
To explain stuff, like in some ways this will be
a transparent winter. What they do will say a lot,
but also what you're thinking coming out like that, whatever
you when when they he addresses people coming into the
spring or winter meetings or whatever it is, after they
made a number of moves, like really explaining what I mean.
I think people will get behind a couple of different
roads with Google, Like if if he says, you know,

(01:21:21):
I don't know if we're gonna be able to resign him,
but we're gonna try and win a World Series next year,
and I think our best chance to do that is
with this guy on the roster. And so this is
we're gonna make moves around him, and that's we're gonna
do people. I think people will go okay. And then
I also think if he says, but you think they
didn't do that this season, well that's some move And
I think if he says, you know, after he trades him,
you know, this is we There may be things we're

(01:21:43):
not as strong I'm pitching. We think we can be
a stronger team overall, and overall we needed to get
something for him because this was a good offer and
and we're not going to keep him. Then I think
people are cool with that too. He we just need
to see and explain it. And I and I think
the other big problem is the final question. I think
there's just a lack of trust with you know, whether

(01:22:05):
they're going to spend when they need to spend, whether
and I just I think that's a real, a real problem.

Speaker 5 (01:22:10):
And what do you mean they spend They spent on Hovey,
Bayaz and Rodriguez. Yeah, yeah, And I know they won't
have to love Cody, but yeah, those are two things
that you know.

Speaker 6 (01:22:18):
Well, I still I think the thing that stands out
to me and I was trying to look out I
couldn't remember what the player was, but now I do.
Was a Jonathan Scoop or Shoop was his name as
that Oh so years ago he had one decent year
and like they re signed him for like a two year,
fifteen million dollar deal. And there was all this I
remember the interview done by like which back then was
probably Fox Sports, and their interview him in the dugout

(01:22:39):
and they're just talking about what how great it is
ill it allowed them to do this. It was like
a fifteen fucking million dollar contract, And I was like,
if that's the like, you know, dear leader here is
going to allow fifteen million, Like okay, that's a problem.

Speaker 5 (01:22:51):
Like that.

Speaker 6 (01:22:52):
It clearly they felt like they needed to thank him
and praise him for this really ordinary contract for an
ordinary player, and it just it drove me nuts. And
that was a moment where.

Speaker 5 (01:23:02):
Like, especially at a time when there was no light
at the end of the tunnel at least last year,
he made this miraculous turnaround. But it's just amazing what
the Tigers put the fan base through in twenty twenty
five and then to end it with a fifteen inning
thriller where you constantly can't get a runner in.

Speaker 6 (01:23:18):
That's been our problem. That's played this all season long.
And you just knew it. You just knew they were
gonna run out of pictures before the before.

Speaker 5 (01:23:25):
The not a pictures.

Speaker 6 (01:23:26):
I'm just like, there's nobody that's gonna drive a run
in there's not that the We need the the the
runner on second base, we need that rule to come back,
or we need the Mariners to pitch Tommy Kinley one
of the two. That's the Uh. That was what fitting in?

Speaker 5 (01:23:39):
All right? Yeah?

Speaker 6 (01:23:40):
Yeah, so you're in den. Where did you? You got
to watch the Tigers? You got to watch you got
to watch Michigan sate everything.

Speaker 5 (01:23:46):
I did watch all three of those. Like I said,
we did stay with a friend of ours that officiated
our wedding, so I did get to I told her
I had to watch. She doesn't like sport, doesn't really
watch sports, so I had her. She had a nice
big TV thing. God, and I could just be all,
can I give you a story kind of worth telling now?
That we went to dinner last night because we had

(01:24:06):
to travel yesterday morning. But we went to dinner last
or the other night with a friend of Teresa who
she works with. Right, So we went to this nice,
little fancier restaurant that I'm used to. So the hostess
greets us and says right this way, and sits us down,
and she said, I forget the server's name, but it's
like Deborah will be your server by the way, she

(01:24:27):
looks a little like John Beney Ramsey and then walks away.
What yeah, And I was like, so we all, all
three of us looked at each other and we're like,
didn't she die? Didn't John Benny die when she was
like five years old? It's such a weird thing to say,
your server And did she a little? I mean she
was like in her sixties though, she was like late fifties, sixties,

(01:24:48):
and I'm like, yeah, she's blonde, short, but yeah, I
don't know if she looks like a five year old.
So anyway, I just thought that stunned the table. We
all were like looking at each other.

Speaker 6 (01:24:57):
You do have to project a lot with somebody who's
who only live to be like five, right, It's not
really that's a strange that's a strange place you ever heard.

Speaker 5 (01:25:06):
I thought it was on one of those undercover like
prank shows, like The Impractical Impractical Jokers or something like that,
where they just come up and I'm gonna say this
and see if anybody reacts. And I've never heard anybody. Oh, yeah,
she's she looks like John Baday Ramsay.

Speaker 6 (01:25:19):
Did you guys then mention that to her? Hey, you
look like domine ram No because it's too awkward. Yeah,
you can't sit there. I didn't know if it was
a bit this lady was doing. That's also when we
stayed at our friend's house, Kristen, she did order us pizza. Okay,
it was very nice of her. But they have this
thing in Denver. It's called taking bake pizza. She lives
in Castle Rock, Colorado. Taking bake pizza is they deliver

(01:25:41):
you a pizza that's not cooked yet.

Speaker 5 (01:25:43):
Correct. I We could not, Teresa and I I could
not figure out, you know me, So I had to
do a whole fifteen minute like I'm like, I please
explain to me how you want someone to deliver. The
delivery guy came and it would uncook pizza and uncooked
garlic knots, and it was like there you go. So
then we had to put it in the oven. And
I'm like, well, what's the benefit of this. It's it's
maybe fresher when you want it, or you don't get

(01:26:05):
it fresher. They have the best ovens at pizza places.
What am I gonna do with my one hundred dollars?
You know oven oven that you know you can't do
with the pea. I just couldn't wrap my hand that
and the job of a comment. I'm like, what we
were trying to figure out what was crazier because I
do not understand it. I want pizza. When I order
a pizza, well that's the thing for them to deliver it,
and it's warm. I open up the box, the game's on. Yay.
I don't want to have to sit there because she

(01:26:26):
timed it out to when the delivery was gonna happen,
so she preheated her oven. You know.

Speaker 6 (01:26:31):
Yeah, It's like it's like if Muskox delivered you a
yarn and uh and said here you go. That's a
little bit of a stretch, but it makes sense. Yeah,
you do it on Amazon, like, oh, here's a ball
of yarn. I'm gonna say, Infinity gave you a wire
and said, you know, make make make home internet work
for you. Figure it out. It wouldn't be the it
wouldn't be the way to go. Those were the two things.

(01:26:51):
And she was so nice and gracious to let us
stay at her place and stuff. I think the idea
is you don't have to eat it right like they
delivered during the day and that night you make it.

Speaker 5 (01:26:59):
But how do you think that far ahead? Yeah, it's like, hey,
what do you want to eat today? I don't know,
pizza call it. I just feel like it's a terrible
business plan. If you were sitting there pitching it to
Shark Tank, they would probably kick you out with it
a half a second or something. It's all I'm saying.

Speaker 6 (01:27:11):
That is a story we're telling, presented by our friends
at Midtown Brewing Company in downtown Lancing and Midtown Brewing
Company has hot meals. They do not make you cook
it yourself. If the chef there is fantastic. If you
go to Midtown Brewing Company, don't you don't have to
operate the oven. They will bring you. They have comfort food,
they have lighter dishes. Took my mom there for a

(01:27:31):
birthday celebration with my wife. Enjoyed the heck out of it. Yeah,
it's a great place for events. Midtown Brewing Company in
downtown Lancing and trivia on Tuesday nights. Just a good
place for an American stout beer to post up watch
a game.

Speaker 5 (01:27:47):
So what do you get mom for birthday? Oh?

Speaker 6 (01:27:50):
I just get her flowers in a card. I try
to get the same like she really likes this one
card that if we get if I find it, it's
hard to find. It's a musical car of the Peanuts theme,
like the Charlie Brown Peanuts theme that plays that. And
she likes it because years and years ago I bought
it four and she like took a video of herself
like dancing to the things. She loved it, loved it,
and so now it became kind of a gig. If

(01:28:11):
they're harder to find. It was like a real fad
with musical cards, and I'll run into one once in
a while, and so I try to find that. I
try to put some effort into it, and then otherwise
I just get her.

Speaker 5 (01:28:19):
She have like an old card that you could maybe
just reuse if you just She has a.

Speaker 6 (01:28:23):
Couple that still work. They had good batteries and uh so,
uh but that's yeah. I just usually get her flowers.
And we did some We've done some special stuff, like
her seventieth we took her on this like river cruise
dinner thing in Chicago. We've done some fun stuff on
you know, you hit certain certain years.

Speaker 5 (01:28:39):
When you get up to certain years, you get excited
about a card that sings a song to you. Yeah,
that's that's that's what it is. I mean, I don't know.
It is awesome.

Speaker 6 (01:28:45):
Yeah, it's that's what you have to look forward to.
It's it's it's uh, it's absolutely incredible. Another story.

Speaker 5 (01:28:53):
Are we going to talk about the Lions before we
get out of here? All right, let's gita Jared Goff depressing.

Speaker 8 (01:29:02):
It's our core foundation, man Griff.

Speaker 5 (01:29:05):
Brian Branch. I love Brian Branch, but man, dude, you
gotta be smarter than that. And Dan Campbell came out
and defended him a little bit and his presser in
an interview on ninety seven to one this morning. And
I love Brian Branch, I get that Juju Smith Schuster
is a complete penis, but he's the guy that's going
to try to get you to do what you did.
And that's the bummer. I don't mind going into Kansas

(01:29:25):
City and losing a tough game like that. It's hard
to beat Kansas City and the refs. I don't want
to because the refs were a part of it. I
understand you can't blame the whole loss on it, but
it just pisses me off that over and over again
as a Lions fan in my forty seven years of
being a Detroit Lions fan, you just see all of
this crazy shit that announcers don't know. I've never seen

(01:29:47):
that in my career. They always say that kind of
stuff and to call a penalty because New York called
it down when they're not supposed to. It's supposed to
be those refs on the field. I'm talking about the golf.
The first touchdown play, by the way, some guy had
like would have won one hundred thousand if the touchdown
would have there's a prop bet for Jared Garrett go
first touchdown. Wow.

Speaker 6 (01:30:07):
Yeah, but to catch a touchdown would have been I
don't know if that prop was out there, but either.

Speaker 5 (01:30:12):
Way, it would have would have hit you anyway. So
it's it's tough to get really angry and pissed off
at a loss like that against Kansas City. Like I said,
I just feel with Brian Branch getting, you know, and
I know he has he has a gripe with the
refs because he feels like there's cheap shots all over
the place. But now he's gonna appeal it or he's
going to be suspended for a big game at home
against Tampa when we needed him they lost that game.

Speaker 6 (01:30:32):
When the when the Chiefs lost to the Jaguars the
week before, I felt like there was not gonna be
calls against the Chiefs. The Chiefs couldn't go to two
and four and it was a much bad one penalty
right is at the end end of the game. I mean,
that's insanity to go a full football game like that,
especially in a sport where you can call holding on
pretty much every play. The Yeah, no, it wasn't a
game the Lions needed. The branch thing is, you know

(01:30:54):
how I feel about this. As long as they were
able to beat the Buccaneers, which is no no sure thing,
but it's a home, money and football game, then I
prefer that defensive backs are out because they have less
of a chance to get hurt when they missed the game.
So I would like him to be everybody drink suspended
more often and more players suspended.

Speaker 5 (01:31:10):
Yeah, but not against Tampa though. Yeah, I don't know,
I know your hacky bit, I get it, but it
like it's just.

Speaker 6 (01:31:14):
LI have been better against the Vikings a couple weeks
later after a buy other guys help.

Speaker 5 (01:31:18):
Just there's no way you're gonna get away, especially in
a standalone game on a Sunday night football environment like that,
you're gonna have him throw it back to the studio.
They're going to be like, oh, I can't believe Brian Branch,
and it's going to become a storyline. Whereas if the
game were at one o'clock, four o'clock, I don't know
if it would have got as much hype as it did.
But I just got to be I mean, I love
I love Brian Branch obviously, and I love that mentality

(01:31:40):
of like, after everybody, you know, give the middle finger
to the bird, but you still got to have to
be a little bit smarter than that.

Speaker 6 (01:31:46):
Yeah, and look better that he did this now than
wildcard weekend and he missed the next week or something
like that.

Speaker 5 (01:31:51):
But hopefully we get that figured out by them. Yeah,
it was it was not good. It was weird. It
was one of those games where it was not and
not not having Taylor Decker. I mean, we got to
get him healthy as well. It's just yeah, but I
didn't leave the game like disheard and disappointed. It was
one of those losses where in Michigan State should aspire
to get to this point where you lose a game

(01:32:12):
you're like, oh, they're four and two, but they're they're fine.
And that's different to the NFL because every you know,
there's a playoffs at the end that are different than
college and you don't you know, you just got to
win like ten to eleven games and not like I guess
that's what you got to do in college too, but
there are more games to lose. You can lose, you know,
five six, seven games un to make the NFL playoffs.
But it did not feel like a game where I
left with any concern. I just thought, get this team.

(01:32:35):
I still see some things. Offensively, they weirdly didn't throw
the ball enough. I didn't think the cost did not
have a single pass attempt over twenty yards, and you know,
people want to complain about the going forward on fourth down,
but again it's like it was a good play. I'm on,
Rod dropped off the pass that changes, which he never does.
So I mean you look at that and go, okay,
I'm on, Rod does not drop those, So here we go.

Speaker 6 (01:32:55):
That's our loss. It's not like this is a guy
who this is a problem. That's not a problem. It
happened in a game. It sucks, everybody does it occasionally,
but I would count on him to make that catch
nine out of ten times.

Speaker 5 (01:33:04):
But if Decker is you know, if he's out again
against Tampa Bay, I mean, that's there's a reason why
they're not. Golf isn't throwing over twenty yards because they
don't have enough time. GoF isn't fast enough on his
feet to make plays like that. So Tampa's out some guys.
I mean, oh, I know there's injuries everywhere. I understand that.
That's what I think. The Lions are still a four
and a half point favorite at home.

Speaker 6 (01:33:23):
So you know the worst thing about a Monday night
game is it doesn't fit our time slot for our
Monday show. But we'll still do a Monday show next week.
We're telling you we're not gonna we're not gonna bail
on the Monday Show.

Speaker 5 (01:33:33):
Well that's something happens. Well, you never know. It's I
would say it's fifty sit now.

Speaker 6 (01:33:36):
We will we will plan to be We will also
plan to do a Friday show. Yes and answer your
groovy don at Twitter questions if you had a question
last week that you really like, and I'll phrase this
somehow in the in the call out for them, just
let me know, and because I've already gone through them
on and I can grab that now. Maybe if you
just want to amend it, resend it, that's fine because

(01:33:57):
you know things have happened. But we'll ask for fresh
ones as well, and we will do takes on Monday.
So if you have a take, you know what I
didn't want to do today, and I could just feel
it was we had a lot to get into. Is
we do takes, it's gonna be a lot of the
same repetitive take and there are a lot of things
to talk about, so I didn't want to do takes.
We apologize for missing the Monday show, but we'll be
back Friday. We will do groovy Dunnate questions and yeah,

(01:34:21):
it could be something good happens between now and Friday.
Absolutely something has to happen. Max Bullett, new head coach
at Michigan State.

Speaker 5 (01:34:27):
There you go.

Speaker 6 (01:34:28):
We appreciate all of you listening. We appreciate you hanging
with us when we take mid mid fualifaications and have
studio gafs and all that good stuff. We appreciate Cody
for coming on and sharing his tires knowledge no matter
how it makes us feel, and Zach with what Indiana
football is that Michigan State's about the face. We appreciate,
of course our friends at Exfinity Midtown Brewing Company, and

(01:34:51):
of course Muscos quality fannels. Flannels Go Muscos, and the
promo code is peacock for fifteen dollars off. Don't forget
couching the room and the hashtag Muscos couching the room,
hat muskox or just DM me ugliest photo, best photo
of you, and we'll see who wins that contest by
the end of the week. Good show man, couch in
the room,

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