Ep. 1082: Gov. Whitmer and Shawn Windsor on the MSU-Michigan rivalry, the Lions and more

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
All love, all all love. Wow. Hello, oh oh oh.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
What do you get when you cross a know it
all newspaper columnist with an awkward, unsophisticated every man.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
Yeah, well, I'm just not sure about that right now.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
Welcome Couch and the Room.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Welcome to Couch in the Room, our Wednesday show presented
by our friends at Front forty three neighborhood pub and
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(02:18):
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(02:40):
com very good. Just One of the best things they
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but I love their reservation system at Caskingcompany dot com. Jason,
how you doing, brother, big night?

Speaker 5 (02:50):
If we go Grassia send You're almost.

Speaker 6 (02:53):
Lions Allays Almost Lions.

Speaker 1 (02:59):
Challenge.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Yeah, let's go. What's up dude? You look great today?
Thanks man? Yeah? Is that a new haircut?

Speaker 3 (03:18):
I did get a haircut. It was time I knew it.
That's great man, Thanks man. I do my best, you know,
I try, you know, put the Muskox flannel on, got
the new haircut. It's as good as I can look, right.
So great to see you. Great to be here. Yeah, yep, yeah,
it's victory Wednesday. It was I think of you drin
Lions games like that because I think of all the
times we talked about you being dead inside and then

(03:40):
I've been a while though. I think about how the
Lions offensively left points on the board and they still
just controlled the game and they look like the better
team they That was the first game this year where
I had some I mean I had a little bit
of trepidation going in and left it thinking a lot
more of them in terms of their playoff.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
Hopes, well the offense. So we have some questions about
you know, you got Jamo throwing stuff on Instagram that
he's bored three for thirteen on third downs. But the
defense is what stole the show and Calvin Shepherd and
congratulations game ball to Calvin Shepherd to get that defense,
next man up mentality, which I love. But yeah, the offense.

(04:19):
I mean, if we want to talk about what we
didn't like in that game, Jamior Gibbs obviously, but Jared
Goff with that back, that shoulder turn I hate. I
just if we had him on the show, I'd be like, Jared, please,
just don't do it. Just either throw it away, go down,
do something else. Never turn to run somewhere else. Just
don't do it. We need you safe and healthy here. Yeah,

(04:41):
it's the fact that they got that win. Like, there
were so many things that were important about it. One
is it's a tiebreaker with the Bucks, which I think
is really important because the Bucks team that plays a
schedule that's manageable and they've been really good. Evans is
going to be out and Godwin's going to be They're
going through a lot of it.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
They got a lot of injuries, no doubt, more than
we are. But yeah, no doubt the Lion's gonna buy
come out to go into the by five and two
after the way the season started looking the way they've looked,
having showing those signs that defensive performance without Brian Branch, Like,
I just they're gonna get a little healthier, and obviously
that can still creep up and be an issue late

(05:18):
in the season. And we know how I whind about
all that stuff all the time. I just I think
they are in a great place. And you can hear
it sort of in the national discourse about them right
now that you know, they're starting to be considered the
front runner in the favorite in the NFC. And as
much as last year being the number one seed did
not produce a Super Bowl, I still think it's worth

(05:41):
being the number one seed. I still think there are
huge advantages to playing the entire playoffs at Ford Field,
despite what happened last year.

Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yeah, but you weren't at that game, you know. It's
just like, I definitely would rather have the first round
by rather than playing some sort of wild card or
some game like that. I totally I can't disagree with that,
but yeah, this thing, but it almost feels like, what
is home field advantage worth? Anyway? You had a rookie
quarterback and Jaydon Daniels last year, I figured we were
going to rattle him, and they just came in and

(06:10):
absolutely thumped us and kicked our ass. So it's almost
like a part of me is like, who gives a shit,
Just get us into the playoffs. We need to win
these games. We're good on the road again, which we
never had been. You know, when I was prior, when
I was dead inside, our road record was horrendous. We
would automatically lose on the road. Now that Dan Campbell's
here owns Lambeau, owns some of these other places, it's
just kind of like, I feel like we can win

(06:32):
anywhere though. That's the best part gram is I feel
like we can win anytime, any place, as long as
you give us Jared Goff. That's the guy that's got
to stand upright Brian Branch. I'm like, my god, we're
gonna miss him on Monday night. This is gonna be
brutal looking at some of the wide receiver props even
though they were Tampa Bay was brutal and had no
one really, but still that's a great that's a great

(06:53):
next man up win right there?

Speaker 3 (06:54):
It was, And when they come off to buy and
I love that they've gotten to this point and they
have a little bit of you know, Exhale Vikings at home.
They got to win that game, right Commanders. That's that's
a weird situation. I don't know what their quarterback situation
is going to be. That's gonna be a game that
you know, the Lions are gonna be dialed in.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
And how about a Lee McNeil. Like having him back
and how he dominated on the defensive line, like you imagine,
and like Michigan fan Jordan was telling me, He's like, man,
imagine if we had like a Max Crosby or a
Hendrickson across from Hutch, we would be unstoppable. I want
that defense so badly. I swear to God, no more
additions on offense. I would just want a defense that
we can just get to the quarterback like we did
against Tampa Bay.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
It's going to be a while before they're not favored.
They'll be favored against the Vikings. I think they'll be
favored at the Commanders. The way that's going at the
Eagles November sixteenth will be interesting because the Eagles have
not been playing well so right now. I think the
Eagles would still be a slight favorite. Giants at home,
Packers at home, they'll be favored for on Thanksgiving. Then

(07:53):
Cowboys at home have favored at Rams. That could be
one given what the Rams have been. Steelers at home
they get Aaron Roddy. There's some good stuff. Bears on
the road, Vikings on the road.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
I there's a real hard to look forward, you know,
past some of these games, if like, oh yeah, those
guys are right there, Like it's such a long season
with ups and downs. We still got a ways to.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
Get and they're in a weird place when you've had
the last two postseasons they've had. They're in a weird
place where the regular season absolutely matters, but what matters
most about it is having your key guys upright and
able to play in the postseason. And that's just a
weird way to go about business. You want to play well,
you want all this thing, but there's always this this
nervy energy that like as you talked about with Jared Goff,

(08:32):
it's it's Jamiir Gibbs, like, you know, let's you get
through this and then.

Speaker 4 (08:38):
Well Goff is the major one, because if Gibbs something
were to happen to believe me, he's one. I think
he's the better out of the two running backs. With Montgomery,
we're already talking about getting ready and rid of Montgomery.
But I mean it's a luxury to have a great
luxury to have both running backs. But again, cut you know,
and that goes for any any team in the NFL
pretty much, is that if your quarterback goes out, there's
only so many Joe flaccos that you can hope to patch,

(09:00):
you know, put a band aid over something like that,
a quarterback loss. But yeah, let's keep golf upright, let's
do it. We have a good show today. We are
gonna We're gonna talk to some memsry football here for for
a little bit. Then we have the Governor Gretchen Whitmer
on for for about ten twelve minutes. Good conversation on

(09:21):
the MSU rivalry, and talk to little Nil with her
as well. She's a big MSU fan and she an
I don't see, shut up some money.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
She's not Jim Yehos or anything like that. And then
and then we have Sean Windsor and Harry on. So
anytime you get Governor Whitmer, Shawn Windsor and Harry on
a show. You've got a really good show. So we
pre recorded the Whitmer interview, so that will be so
if you're watching it on YouTube. We'll put the YouTube
video of that up a little later this afternoon if
you if you're listening or watching live. But so if

(09:52):
you're watching live on YouTube, you will see just like
me sitting here and you won't won't see here during
that career record a.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
Little early to himself interview.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
Now I'll probably step out. I wasn't my I was okay,
you know, I can't wait to hear it. You know
how I am when things are a little different technically
than I'm used to, how off I get off my game.
So when you're pre recording an interview, we don't have
like the intro music, we don't have any of the
stuff I'm used to. And and uh, I'll be honest,
I was a little nervous. I was a little warm
under the lights. I was.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
Yeah, she had a lot of her handlers like with her. No,
that's the whole thing. Everybody comes with her, you know.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Crew.

Speaker 4 (10:28):
She had uh, you know, cottage in pizza boxes everywhere.
They must have had lunch while they were here. It's
uh yeah, I don't think that was.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Now.

Speaker 3 (10:34):
They had a couple of security people and and and
one uh one assistant or public relations person.

Speaker 4 (10:40):
That would be sick roll of the crew. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah, the the security people come in here and they
check it out. You know, they had to, you know,
make sure I was who I was. They were great,
uh and and and and and she was good and
we appreciate her her doing that. Before we get to
that interview and and to Sean and Harry, I want
to talk a little M s U football because it's
been in a you know, obviously we did the show

(11:04):
on Monday after Jonathan Smith's press conference, but Nick Marsh
and Aidan Chiles both spoke on Tuesday ahead of this
Michigan Michigan State rivalry game, and I was happy they
Marsh has not been somebody that's been made available a lot,
and I don't know why. And I wonder if it's
they where he's just going to speak the truth. I

(11:24):
don't know why it hasn't been availed, because he's who
we always want to hear from. Mean, everybody wants to
hear from Nick Marsh. But they did this week to
his credit, and he was really good, and he talked
about when he first sort of came into this rivalry
and why he feels the way he does. And he
was on the sidelines for that twenty twenty one Kenneth
Walker game when he was fifteen years old, barely fifteen
years old as a recruit, and it made me start

(11:48):
to think how important it is that Michigan State starts
to get its footing in this rivalry again, because you know,
you think about how much longer will that be recent history?
Right at a certain point, recruits don't remember the wins,
and you're just selling a dream that they can't really picture.
Nick Marsh was at one of the most hyped epic games,

(12:12):
epic Michigan State Michigan wins. You know that you will,
you will ever find that twenty twenty one game. But
next year's freshman, we're seven or eight years old when
trouble with the Snap happened in twenty fifteen, most of
them aren't going to remember that game. Like you're getting
there YouTube, sure, sure, but you get further and further
away from from picturing Michigan State on a level playing

(12:34):
field of Michigan or beating Michigan and a lot of
good work that was done. Like you go twenty years back,
Michigan State is still ten and ten in the last
twenty years against Michigan because D'Antonio did so much work there. Right,
there's still ten and seven since Dantonio's first win against Michigan.
It's not like they've completely lost everything in that rivalry.
It just feels like it because it's been such a
brutal last three years and Michigan obviously is won a lot,

(12:58):
but it's been brutal on the field, brutal in the tunnel,
it's been brutal after the game. On the field, it's
it's been brutal outside of that rivalry from Michigan State.
So it just feels like forever ago, And you know,
I it's this is a game where I don't think
winning this game on its own is enough to like
completely change the current that's working against Jonathan Smith now

(13:21):
and make him win the fan base back. But at
the very least it will change how he would be
remembered if this is it, and he would be appreciated
and respected for it. Like if you beat Michigan, doesn't
matter the circumstances people will remember you for it, appreciate
you for it, and respect you for it. And I
think the same for the players. You know, who knows

(13:45):
some of these guys. If if there's a coaching change
or anything like that might not be back. But if
you are part of a group that beats Michigan, people
remember that. People Michigan State fans can go back through
the dates. They can tell you ninety three, where they were,
ninety all this stuff. When they beat Michigan, they can
tell you the dates, the years they do it, and
they remember forever. I think it's it's an opportunity, and

(14:07):
it's an opportunity if you're this team and you're Jonathan Smith,
to see where that leads and to see what that
does for you. Because I can sit here and say
today that Michigan State beating Michigan does not change things
enough to really change the discourse or where where this

(14:28):
is haded with Jonathan Smith, But I ultimately don't know
that one hundred percent because I don't know how people
will feel and what that will feel like if that
were to happen again. I'm not I've talked to this,
so I'm not gonna predict that. I think I'm gonna
predict thirty one twenty Michigan. I think it'll be.

Speaker 4 (14:45):
Relatively taking that fortune in a hook let's go. Yeah,
I would.

Speaker 3 (14:52):
I would stay away from this game just because you're
gonna put something on it.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
I like it, you like it being taught, Yeah, preview
for with hair, but yeah, I definitely like stay with
the points the fourteen and a half I do too.
We've seen worse Michigan State teams. We've seen worse better
Michigan team. I mean, just think the rivalry with the
fourteen and the hook with you know, Chiles and marsh
I just feel like with the offense can get some
points on the board. This Michigan team offensively isn't you know, scary?

(15:19):
So I just think the fourteen and a half. I
don't know if they win the game, but give me,
give me the points though.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah they're not scary. But they do average five and
a half yards of carry. Oh yeah, and there are
some missions. Can they put up points in bunches and
quickly and really strike That's that's the question. That's they
don't have the quick strike offense. They don't have this
prolific offense right now that should be able to run
away from Michigan State. If MSU can, can you know,
keep pace on the other end. And again, every team

(15:46):
is different. Michigan's got a different quarterback, Michigan State's a
different team than a year ago. But last year, remember
how that game looked. For a while Michigan State was fine,
They were in somewhat decent control of it. So I
I I am curious to see what that would do.
Not predicting it. I think if they played ten times

(16:07):
at Spartan Stadium, these two teams right now, Michigan would
win eight of them, even at Spartan Stadium. But that's
still a decent chance. There's still a chance, and I
think part of the reason why is and I'm not
comparing Michigan State maybe to a mid major relative to
a major, and I don't mean to put down Michigan
State in that realm, but when you are a program

(16:30):
that is the underdog and you don't have the horses
at the line of scrimmage that the other side does,
the way to win that game is two things. You
have to have a quarterback who can make plays, receivers
who can make plays, and then the other team cannot
have a prolific offense that runs away from you. Those
are the dynamics. It's old as time. If you want
to predict an upset and a mid majors, that's the

(16:52):
way it works. And so in this case, it gives
Michigan State a fighting chance. You know the thing I'm
also curious about, Jason, I think Michigan States players are
all in this week. I think they are focused. I
think they're dialed in. I think they've been hearing about
this rivalry. I do think even the ones who are
from outside have a sense that something's coming. I think

(17:14):
the ones who experienced it. Aidan Childs talked about this
this week, not having understood what it was about, how
it was way different than Oregon Oregon State. Jonathan Smith
went through that everybody that they are dialed in. This
will be Michigan State's absolute best effort.

Speaker 4 (17:29):
Really, but.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
After this week, I don't know. I don't know. I
think they're dialed in. I am very curious to see, how,
you know, what the rest of the year looks like,
especially if this week doesn't go all that well. Do
they Is this sort of the last hurrah? Or are
they still looking at this? And I just I don't
have a.

Speaker 4 (17:46):
Sense what changed from the UCLA game where everybody thought
they kind of gave up.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
Well, they didn't give up against Indiana, That's what changed.
True for a quarter, I guess, well, no, I mean
I don't think they gave a ball Indiana, which is
a lot better than them, and eventually they but they
kept moving the ball throughout the game. Defense, they just
have no answer. And the problem, you know, we go
back to the Nebraska game. This is the problem this week.
Nebraska is really bad. Their offensive line is not very good.
So Michigan State looked like they had found answers that

(18:11):
I don't think they really found. And I don't think
we're going to see them defensively this They're going to
have to force a turnover, limit the run to some degree,
and at some point somehow make Price Underwood uncomfortable. And
that doesn't necessarily mean getting to him, because I don't
trust them to get home to him, but mixing up
some things in the in the in the defensive backfield.
I mean, Price Underwood is only going to get better.

(18:34):
He's already doing some things that you see, some real
special traits with pressure. A couple of throws he makes
in different windows like that. Stuff's great, but he's still
a freshman and so he's seeing things for the first time,
like this is a good time to get him. He
doesn't have overwhelming weapons. His good weapons a great running back.
You know, they're not bad. I'm just saying this is
not the top of receiver weapons in college football that

(18:59):
really make life feasy for him. He has to create
some for them. So I you've got to make him think.
You've got to make him question some things. You've got
to make him have a tough day to some degree,
and then your offense has to be on point. And I,
you know, I don't know if it will all happen.
I just I think they will. This will be Michigan
State's best effort. I have a real question about where

(19:19):
their heads will be after this win or lose focus wise, man,
I guess win would would booy things, but I I
really don't know how they are just some things that
have been said, like it, you know, we talk about
the strength of the d'anntonio program being his ability to
win the week after Michigan, and obviously you have to
beat Michigan first to really have that be any sort

(19:42):
of distraction and you have to you know, keeping yourself
level headed. I I don't know, I just have some
I have a weird feeling about where this is going
after this week. But I think this week you will
see the best of Michigan State. How confident are you
the MSU will play decently well, even if.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
Not enough, I mean like a five out of ten
because I'm taking the fourteen and a half. I don't
know what to expect out of this team, but like
it's just the rivalry game itself is the reason why
I'm taking the fourteen and a half. I'm not really
sure what I mean, especially defensively, what how Michigan State's
going to show up. So but I'm not like overly
confident or anything or sprinkling money line.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
Stuff like yeah I would, I would be maybe by Friday.
I would be careful on the size of your bet
on this one. Oh it's small, Like I said it.
I threw it in one of my parlays of just
taking the points on that. But yeah, you know what
i mean.

Speaker 4 (20:29):
It's just kind of like almost teetering on dead inside
here because I'm almost like we've talked about, is if
Jonathan Smith wins this game. How much does that get him?
I mean, does he get grace going forward? Is there
a possibility of him coming back next season? Is Charon more?
Like if he beats a Sharon more, Michigan fires more.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
You know, I don't think Michigan's fire anymore. I don't
I think after the season or at all. Are you
saying at all? Yeah, I think he's got another year
at least. He just beat Ohio State last year and
he's and they're playing with the freshman quarterback. I don't
know what people expect when you play with the freshman quarterback.
If you want something less than three losses, then you're
freaking delusional because it's just hard to do. There's aren't

(21:11):
many of those guys. Trevor Lawrence is like the exception
to the rule, right, there aren't many of these guys
who I mean, look at Jaydon Daniels, one of the
best young quarterbacks in the NFL, although he's like twenty
five already. But you know, we all saw him play
at Arizona State when they faced Michigan State, right, I mean,
it wasn't very good as a freshman. He became a
lot of these guys developed later a lot of these
guys are not very good right out of the gate.

(21:33):
Rice Underwood's better than most freshmen, but he's still a freshman,
and that there are limitations with that.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
There's just a lot of Michigan fans that I hear
from that are his in game more that is, his
in game decisions sure are kind of baffling.

Speaker 3 (21:45):
And I just would be stunned if it happens this year.
I mean, if you know, but I think you have
to if you're one and one against Ohio State, two
and zero against Michigan State, with you know, an eight
or nine win season this year, and that's in year two, Like,
what's the I mean, I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm
not saying it, but if that's just that's nowhere near
what Michigan State's dealing with. That just seems like and

(22:06):
I understand you were just at the top, you're worried
about losing it, you're still recruiting. Well, it just to
me doesn't make sense at this point now, a year
from now, if if it still looks like, you know,
this is a team fighting for seven or eight wins
or you know, they don't, you know, they can't they
lose to Ohio State twice and they're looking like they're
a real notch below or there are other things. Maybe

(22:27):
that's a different, different conversation. We'll talk more about it
in a little bit with Sean Windsor we'll talk a
little bit about this Michigan Michigan State game and the
rivalry and that and her memories of the rivalry with
Gretchen Whitmer, Governor of Michigan. Next here Couching the rub
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(25:22):
with us a first time guest. The governor of the
State of Mission Governor Gretchen Whitmer. The plan was to
be a broadcaster, correct, that was.

Speaker 8 (25:32):
My master plan.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Where did things go wrong?

Speaker 6 (25:35):
When I was at Michigan State, I was in the
communications school and my dad had encouraged me to do
an internship down here at the Capitol.

Speaker 8 (25:43):
He said, so few people understand state government.

Speaker 6 (25:45):
Maybe you'll hate it, but it'll give you a little perspective.
And it kind of changed everything for me. I fell
in love with public policy. I was working though, in
the football building in the Duffy Doherty building, working with
George Perlis was the coach at the time. And that's
really my two passions politics and football.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
Football. All right, So, what's a core memory because you
were there in Michigan State having a little bit of
a tough season. Now, you were there during some tougher
times in the nineties. What's a core memory you have
from this rivalry or from Michigan State football from your
time at Michigan State.

Speaker 6 (26:18):
Oh, when I was when I was at State, we
did have a little tough run there and I'll never
forget it was I think it was my senior year
and we went down Michigan State was having a terrible season.
We went down to Columbus and those those fans are
nuts down there, and Ohio State was unbeaten. They were

(26:39):
on the path to national championship, and Michigan State beat
them in Columbus and it was one of the most
fun but also terrifying moments because those Buckeyes are nuts.

Speaker 3 (26:52):
No. I did a survey years ago talking to a
visiting fan base at Michigan State, and the consensus was
Ohio State fans were the worst. Yeah, that was everybody
else had different experiences, different places. So so I get that. Yeah,
I know, I'm well, I'm glad you made it out. Okay,
So this year's rivalry. When you have a situation where
you've got a team that's not doing real well but

(27:15):
you want to you know, you want to be able
to well, I'll start here. You obviously have constituents on
both sides of this thing. We have listeners on both
sides of things, but they do not extend grace to
the other side. I'm wondering how you extend grace and
what that looks like for you and sort of maintaining
some some dignity during this week.

Speaker 6 (27:34):
I get what's funny? So when before you know, before
I was born. Governors used to sit on one side
for half the game and then do this ceremonial cross
and walk walk across you know, the field at halftime
and then sit.

Speaker 8 (27:49):
On the other team side.

Speaker 6 (27:50):
And I don't know when that changed, but Jim Blanchard
was to get on unabashed spartan, same with John Angler.
Jennifer Granholm didn't attend either university, and then Brick Snyder,
of course, was a big Wolverine. And so I just decided,
you know, no one's going to buy it if I
pretend I'm not. I'm not biased here.

Speaker 8 (28:08):
I'm a Spartan.

Speaker 6 (28:08):
I got two degrees from MSU, spent seven of the
best years of my life on that campus. I'm always
going to be a Spartan, even though both my daughters
are Woolmbarines.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
How did that happen?

Speaker 6 (28:19):
Apparently when you raise kids in East Lansing, it's almost
a guarantee they don't stay there for college.

Speaker 8 (28:25):
I hadn't really thought that.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Through the football coaches have realized that and recruiting kids
for me stancing, it's amazing. Kids don't want to go
to school in their in their own backyard.

Speaker 6 (28:32):
For whatever I mean, I wouldn't want my parents to
have the ability to drop in on me.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
That's true, you want the It would have been really bad.

Speaker 8 (28:38):
For the family relationships.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yeah, no, that's a very good point. I always liked.
I went to school in Chicago, and you have that
three hour difference. You knew if they were coming, you
had time to get yourself to get yourself together. All right,
what are you hopeful for this weekend? Like when you
see a situation where things aren't going well, you you
may want to be able to talk a little trash.
You at least want to feel good about things. What

(29:00):
are you what's your best case scenario this weekend?

Speaker 6 (29:03):
I'd love to see, you know, childs get some get
some touchdown passes in I think, you know, Michigan State,
we got a lot of work to do. There's no
question it's been tough. But this is also early in
you know, in this in this new football coach's career
for the second full year at at the at the university,
and I think it's you know, we got a lot

(29:24):
of challenges, but they show up, they play hard. You
never know what is going to happen with this game.
Adrenaline is worth points on the board. We've seen it
in the past. We could see it very well on Saturday.
So I'm going to root my heart out for my Spartans.
But I want to see him put up a fight,
and I want to see Childs get enough time that

(29:45):
he can fire off some of those legendary passes he's
capable of.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
So you have a pretty big job, and I'm getting
there are weeks you want to watch that you can't.
Does it ever happen during the Michigan Michigan State Game
that there's something that's just too important on your schedule
that you've had to miss it?

Speaker 6 (29:59):
Got No, This is Michigan, Like I used to You know,
when I knocked doors as a candidate, you knew no
one wants to talk to you on this game day.

Speaker 8 (30:08):
So don't even bother. Just go enjoy the game.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Did you ever make that mistake knocking?

Speaker 4 (30:12):
No?

Speaker 5 (30:13):
But I have.

Speaker 6 (30:14):
I have volunteered on some campaigns I do, and people
are not happy to see you at their door in
the middle of the Michigan Michigan State game.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Have there been times where you've just been sitting down
to watch a game and something has happened and you've
had to miss it. And it's just ruined the day.

Speaker 6 (30:29):
No, not yet, because you could ring my doorbell one
hundred times, I'm not going to answer it during the game. Yeah,
you get to tailgate it all still, yes, on occasion.

Speaker 8 (30:40):
Not like I used to, that's for sure.

Speaker 6 (30:42):
But I see that they're letting people tailgate at one again,
which is hilarious to me because I've got some vivid,
very colorful memories of tailgating on Munfield.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Do you want to take us there to the I
just say, I.

Speaker 6 (30:54):
Remember in inclement weather where it would turn into a
slipping slide and it was going very filthy, but would
have had a lot of laughs in the process.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
My favorite thing about the timing of technology in this
world is that digital photos weren't really really around when
I was in college. And I guess who you feel
the same.

Speaker 8 (31:09):
Yeah, I don't think i'd be governor right now.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
If they were, I would not be anywhere right now. Okay,
a couple of things I wanted to get to, just
more on the policy side. College sports is very different
than it used to be, very different than it was
when I think we fell in love with it. There
have been a couple of House bills introduced in Michigan
that either guarantee athletes' ability to collectively bargain or another

(31:34):
that fully allows them to fully benefit from an ail
without like an NCAA interference or anything like that. I'm
wondering for you where you stand on what you think
is best for college athletes and where we should go
in terms of legislating what they're able to do.

Speaker 6 (31:48):
I think we're in all new territory right now, right
with the NIL, and we wanted to make sure that
Michigan has got rules that are applicable and don't put
us at a competitive disadvantage to other states as they
move forward. But I'm very mindful that you know a
lot of these changes are taking a toll on programs

(32:09):
and are taking a toll on athletes, and so the
ability for an athlete to make money off of their name,
image and likeness I think made a lot of sense.
There are complications zone. I think that there are going
to be all sorts of turns, and we're going to
have to stay nimble and try to make sure that
Michigan law is reflective of what the goals are. But

(32:29):
it's to protect the athlete. The student athlete is sometimes
we lose sight of the fact that there are student
athlete too.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
But in terms of the legislature getting involved, to the
government getting involved in this that you think that's that works. Okay,
as long as it's with the athletes first or what's
best for them and everything.

Speaker 6 (32:48):
Yeah, I mean, we should micro manage these relationships. But
we've got to make sure that there's the same abilities
in the state of Michigan the athletes have in other states,
because we don't want to put our universities at a
competitive disadvantage, and certainly not are some athletes either.

Speaker 3 (33:04):
All right, before I get your prediction for the game,
better topic Lions?

Speaker 8 (33:09):
Yes, how much?

Speaker 3 (33:10):
How much fun has this been given? I mean just
knowing growing up in the state, the era we grew
up in the state, how bad it was for so long? Yeah,
what's this been like for you?

Speaker 8 (33:22):
I mean it was funny.

Speaker 6 (33:23):
I went to training camp a couple of years ago
and one of the national sports reporters said, you know,
is this Are you a new Lions fan?

Speaker 4 (33:29):
You know?

Speaker 6 (33:30):
And I'm like, are you kidding me? The Lions have
ruined Thanksgiving more years than not. My whole life. My
grandparents lived in Pontiac. We used to go down to
the Silver Dome for the game while my grandma made
Thanksgiving dinner. And it's just been so fun to see,
you know, how this how this team has risen to evycation.
Just this week watching them against the Bucks, watching how

(33:53):
the defense, even with so many people injured, rose to
the occasion and shut down Baker Mayfield. I mean, it
was pretty awesome.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
It's been. It's yeah, it was. It was a lot
of misery for a lot of years, other than other
than Barry Sanders. Yeah, giving us, giving us hope. All right,
this Saturday on the Spot prediction for the.

Speaker 8 (34:10):
Game Michigan State by three.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
Really okay, yeah, that's uh, that's bold.

Speaker 8 (34:15):
I mean I'm always going to pick Michigan State.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
Have you ever not picked Michigan State?

Speaker 4 (34:20):
No?

Speaker 3 (34:20):
Okay, well that takes a little credibility away from the
extra prediction. But that's good to know, Governor. Thank you
very much.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
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Speaker 3 (36:30):
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(36:51):
the Lanting East Lanting border. We go from the governor
to somebody who's very important in my life and equally insightful,
the Great Shawn Windsor Sewan. How you doing, man, Oh.

Speaker 5 (37:05):
It's gonna be with you, Graham. I cannot believe. Well, yeah,
don't compare me to the governor. That's that's out of
my league. I can't believe I'm following her though. It's
that's that's good.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Maybe I don't know if if if the interview had
heard had gone really poorly, we were gonna have you
lead in to her. Actually, so that was that you
you almost you almost did that. Actually, Jason actually has
a request for you. So that's the tint, that that
drop that we've been blamed ever since you said it.
He would like you to say it again so he

(37:34):
can capture it even clear. That's the taint.

Speaker 5 (37:38):
I don't even well, I don't even I can't even
understand myself there. Well, we were talking about something.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
We were talking about Michigan's football program being tainted. The taint,
and that's what you said.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
Oh with the uh yeah, with not the suspension, the
all the NCAA business.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's the taint. Oh my god.

Speaker 5 (38:01):
Anyway, I'm not going to live that down.

Speaker 9 (38:05):
Am I.

Speaker 3 (38:05):
No, No, it's it's a permanent fixture in the show.
We leave both shows with it. It. It doesn't even
matter if you're on it's it's it's a it's a
big part of us. Anyway. I want to talk ms
U Michigan and maybe some Lions and maybe Devil on
the Pistons, who I'm eager about, but mostly the MSU Michigan.
The uh, what are you expecting this Saturday night?

Speaker 5 (38:29):
You know, that's a good question, Graham. I was just
reading in preparation for this show. I mean, you know,
sometimes I do a little bit of I do a
little bit of homework. I want to go back and look.
I was trying to remember the numbers and who's one, what,
how many years and all that. But more importantly to
me at least, I was rereading a column and I
had not looked at the column in a while. It

(38:50):
was basically me a culpa because in twenty twenty, after Michigan,
I think it won two in a row to sort
of stop the what eight of ten or whatever that
D'Antonio one. I think at one point, Yeah, I wrote,
I wrote ahead of that game, that COVID year game,
I think melt Tucker's first game, that there was a

(39:11):
fairly significant goal between the programs and then hardball, basically
taking the fun out of the rivalry. And sure enough,
three or four days later, I don't remember what account
column ran sometime that week miss because they pulled off
the Rocky Lombardy led upset, right, and so I had
to write a column. I mean I didn't have to,

(39:32):
but I did.

Speaker 3 (39:32):
I wrote a.

Speaker 5 (39:32):
Column basically starting off with I was rock hunk, and
then you know, sort of putting my face out there
with all the egg on it that was, and talked
about some of the lessons that that that game taught me, right,
just about what a rivalry means. And then even if
there looks like there's a momentum one way or the other,
it can change in a hurry.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
So I don't know.

Speaker 5 (39:56):
I mean, maybe I'm a look good shot after that,
but I I don't know, man, you know, I mean,
I really don't. Michigan is not dominant right at least
I don't think so. I mean, based on what's happened
so far, I mean, I think they could be pretty
good by the end of the year, but who knows.

Speaker 9 (40:15):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (40:15):
It would not shock me at all of Michigan State won.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
This game, which is amazing thing. Yeah, I mean a
lot of it has to do with who Michigan is,
and this is a team that has not run away
from people even when you know they look. I think
there was a good win at home over Washington. You know,
they took care of business against a not great Wisconsonant
team that's really struggling. The game that I think would

(40:38):
give me the most hope if I were Michigan State
was Michigan's game at Nebraska, because that was not Now,
Michigan controlled the line of scrimmage, but that that game
wasn't you know, it wasn't a blow. It was a
close game. They won the game. Nebraska's not good. Michigan
State had to play just just a bumbling idiot of
games to lose that and Nebraska's line of scrimmage is

(41:01):
not good. And it makes me wonder what Michigan's ceiling
as a team that can you know, bludgeon the team
is and I think MSU has some offensive capabilities if
you let them hang around that they'll be in the
game late, and that's that's sort of I mean, I
think Michigan's gonna win this game. I just think it's
going to be competitive. I don't think it's decided until

(41:22):
the fourth quarter. I think I'm going thirty one to twenty.
But I think it's it's a game where if Michigan
State gets touchdowns instead of field goals when they have
their opportunities, they'll have a chance to win this game.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
Do you really think thirty one points? I mean Michigan's offenses,
I look, I like Underwood. I mean, I like his future,
especially he does things out there at times like wow,
that guy. That guy looks and deserves to be ranked
where he ranked. But he's still I mean, he's young,
and he's obviously really young, and he's a he's a

(41:53):
freshman that's just started to figure it out. And the
receivers are a little bit better I think than a
year ago. They've had some issues from dry this year.
The offensive line is fine.

Speaker 9 (42:02):
It's not.

Speaker 5 (42:04):
Maybe it's a little improved from a year ago, but
it's certainly not the kind of year that they had
when they during the tainted period, right when they were
rolling over teams. But I just again, if we're going
to go to the transit of properties. This is another
thing I wrote in the Mea Copa column that I
don't know if you remember this, en that that game
that year was early right because COVID had messed everything up,
But it was a second game, and Michigan had gone

(42:26):
to Minnesota and sumped them and had lost the Rutgers.
And I wrote in that Meo Copa column that that
was partly why I thought, Hey, you know, look at
what just happened the Saturday before. So I get it,
you know, we kind of have to do that, and
that's really the only evidence.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
We have in a way.

Speaker 5 (42:45):
But but I don't know, making too much in college
football of common opponents and what does team look like
against that team? And you know, I don't know. Maybe
maybe I've just turned into a big blob here, and
I'm afraid to be wrong. I did the same to
real quick Gram. I did the same thing with the
basketball program, although at least that was a little better
when bee Line started getting hiszzo occasionally and and I wrote, Hey,

(43:10):
I think I think the gap between these programs is gone.
They're more or less an equal putting and then the
Spartan turn around is a won that game, maybe won
the league that year, but at least that one turned
out to be more or less true. Right, It was
sort of a fifty to fifty deal over time once
bee Line got going, So at least I wasn't a
total idiot with that one.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Well, and this rivalry is and this is from talking
to players who have played it in the last three decades. Right,
it is just different when you're on the field, and
I think the Michigan State players are a lot of
them who had not experienced it last year, even guys
like Nick Marsho grew up in this state, and you know,
you have to feel it. It's just different. There's there's
gonna be cheap shots on both sides. It's a physical game.
It is a it's a game you have to you know,

(43:51):
you just have to experience to thrive in. I think
it's very hard to come in right away and be
and be good, and so I do think that will
help MSU relative to previous times. My fear if I
were MSU, though, is this is still a Michigan football
team that averages five and a half yards to carry
on the ground. And this is a Michigan State defense that,
other than against that woeful Nebraska line of scrimmage, has

(44:14):
shown just very little resistance. And you know ken they
I mean against Indiana, right, Michigan State plays on the
front foot for a minute because they get that those
two long drives and they get a lead. And you know,
if that happens, then I think Michigan State's okay. I
think if it goes the other way and Michigan State's
playing from behind, I don't know how often they stop
Michigan Maybe maybe I'll be wrong here. And again, it's

(44:36):
a rivalry game. We saw in twenty sixteen, you have
a team on the way to a three and nine season,
and that was a really competitive game, even though the
spread was twenty five points or whatever. So I yeah,
I guess I don't know what what if Michigan State
were to win this game, what does it do for
Jonathan Smith? If? I mean, obviously it's it's an whether

(44:58):
it changes arts and minds, it's still an important win.
It people will remember it, But is there does it
do anything beyond just beating Michigan.

Speaker 5 (45:10):
Do you mean, like get him to the off season
with a little less.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
Or give him any chance at that, I should say,
because to me, like, I don't think this game does
it alone, but I think it creates the opportunity for
a weird ending, you know.

Speaker 5 (45:23):
Yeah, No, it's exactly what happens in a few games
after that, right if they get the seven seven wins
or even six wins, and if it gets seven wins,
especially and it seems possible, I at least there's a
chance of it if they beat Michigan that that's the king.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
How How does he?

Speaker 5 (45:39):
How does he finish it? I have a question for
you though, because you're you're in this a little bit.
You're more insconce than I am up there obviously. But
you know, I feel like I have a decent pulse
living here for so long and family's going to the school,
and lots of friends over the years, and just being
up there covering for twenty years. But but I keep

(46:01):
hearing asking people to do Is there a part of
the Michigan State fan base that wants this wants the
Spartans to lose this game? And I just that's hard
for me to imagine it in the moment that would
actually be true. That's like when they've dealt with this
with the Tigers a couple of weeks ago. Were there
really people that wanted to see them lose Game five
in Seattle? After saying, Oh, I want them to lose

(46:22):
because I want I want Scott Harris to be taught
a lesson somehow, I mean, it's not quite the same.
But I've been hearing that a little bit, and I know,
I know you have to do you do you think
that's actually true, that there's any kind of sizable chunk
that wants to see Michigan win just so you can
move forward with a different coaching staff.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
I think there are people who are all out on
him and want him go on no matter what. But
I do not believe among the MSU fan base that
there are many people once that game starts and all
those feelings they have for Michigan, once those start to stir,
I don't believe there are people out there who can
and who want to endure a defeat. I think there
are people who, you know, I just think that's not

(47:00):
not in the mindset of a lot of a lot
of folks. And frankly, I don't think beating Michigan alone,
like I think it's a very slim chance he's back
next season and and they would have to beat Michigan,
but I think it would take more than that. And
I think once you decide somebody is not the right
fit or not, then then you move on regardless of
of a win over Michigan. Now that said, this is

(47:22):
year two. If he's one and one against Michigan, if
it's you know, if it looks different through the rest
of the season, I don't see. You know, you could
see a scenario where it comes becomes a difficult decision
because ultimately, you know, what do people want even if
they're not connecting with him?

Speaker 4 (47:40):
Great?

Speaker 3 (47:40):
I think that's the big problem. I think it's hard.
People have not connected with them, and I don't know
that they're ever going to And so you know, what,
what is the what does the future with that look like?

Speaker 5 (47:51):
No, And that's a that's a good question. The connecting
part of me is really about and you know, and
I talk about this when they are Indiana, when we're
limited together, because the connecting is not ultimately to me
about his personality and how he how he looks on
the sideline, how he sounds in the in the press
conference post game. The month the weekly Monday news conference.
It's about winning. If you win, then you find you know,

(48:14):
you find quirks. You're like, oh, you find them in
endearing the human wonderful. That way you can you can justify, rationalize,
you find different avenues based on what the reality is.
I mean, because he's losing, Oh, he doesn't have enough
fire or he didn't have enough whatever, you know, I
just I don't know. It's it's interesting. I had breakfast

(48:35):
this morning with if I can name drop here for
sec with the great Michael Rosenberg. I hadn't seen him
in a while and and he is in very in
tune with Michigan, and he covered Michigan State for a
long time. And he asked me the same question. He said,
are there are there really people up there that want
that want to see the Spartans lose? You know, I
put it, I put it. I put it this way.

(48:57):
If the feel if there's the fields goal to win
the game, and it's can say, is the field goal
to win the game Saturday late Saturday night, are there
actually gonna be people in the stadium or watching that
love Michigan State rooting for that field goal to be
wide right or left?

Speaker 4 (49:13):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
I just I don't There may be people who think
it this week, you know, because if you're if like
one of the things I think about true fandom and
this is the ship I give for people who are
English soccer fans when I don't believe they're true fandom
is you don't control it. You don't control your fandom.
So the the fantom is an emotion based on on

(49:36):
intense feelings, and so I think there are people this
week who might think, yeah, it might be better off
if they just lost to Michigan. But once that game starts,
I find it very hard to believe they think that way.
If they do, however, I don't question like that's that's
how that means. The fandom is taking you to a
dark place where you feel this needs to happen and
this this is the only way out. And you know,

(49:57):
I guess there could be a smattering of those people.
I think it's you and far between once the game
starts people, because people have to exist in an ecosystem
with Michigan fans in their lives, or with Michigan fans
on social media or wherever it is they do. Not
to beat Michigan comes with Uh, just a feeling that
is worth whatever the next step looks like, I think.

(50:21):
And uh, and again I don't think it'll ultimately change
where this is headed. But because but but I get
your point. But I would be stunned if there are
many people like that.

Speaker 5 (50:31):
Yeah, no, I mean, and and I understand, Look at
it does feel a little bit muted this week. And
that's when I went back and round that column because
I look, we're not in COVID thankfully and so forth.
But just it felt it feels right now a little
bit like it felt then. It's not completely similar. But
and that's why I say, you just don't you just
don't know what's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
But I just I don't know.

Speaker 5 (50:53):
I just yeah, in the moment, I mean, the reason
we have jobs is because of that, that feeling you
can't control, right, I mean, that's that's that's what's that's
what's going on here to me. And by the way,
Donadan Smith, look, I shouldn't say it's just a matter
of winning it. I mean, ultimately it is a matter

(51:14):
of winning in terms of connection.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
He's following.

Speaker 5 (51:17):
I know he's not immediately following because melt Tucker was
in between but he's We're still not that far removed
from a coach. And I was talking about this with
Mike this morning, and it's still kind of amazing when
you think about it from a coach who came in
there and said, pride comes before pride comes before the
fall you're talking about you're talking about a coach who

(51:38):
understood the psychological the psychology of that place and Michigan
and that dynamic in this state and all of the
assumptions and stereotypes that we make with both these schools
and what they represent and all of that, and and
that one quote he went biblical, like fundamentally biblical, and
then they flipped it.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
Around after that.

Speaker 5 (51:59):
Right, So not only did he more or less get
into the Bible and in the beginning of man in
this rivalry, and then he beats their ass for the
next hour many years, right. I mean, it's so Smith
is in the he's in the context of that.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Yeah, And that's tough. Well, and here's the thing, it is,
nobody understood where where MSU fans were more in that
rivalry than D'Antonio and knew how to knew how to
say it, and knew what to say when to say
it like, you know, obviously this pribadely comes before the fall.
That's two thousand and seven, that you know, this is

(52:37):
an important game. If they want to mock us, all
they want to mac us, I'm telling him it's not over.
It'll never be over. Like that's great stuff. After a
loss he had people, it's the you know, you had
me at Hello moment Jerry McGuire style. And you know,
the next year they beat him, I'll go on record
and saying this one counts more than one, you know.
And then and then in two thousand and nine we
did something that hasn't been done forty two years. That's

(53:00):
that's amazing. But facts or facts, this game has a
way of defining you. In twenty ten, the only response
I have is maybe that someday little brother grows up
in twenty eleven, times have changed, right, I mean, like
it just and then you know, you go on and
on like this was he he just had he had

(53:21):
a saying, he had a quip, he had a dig
and he was the perfect coach for Michigan State at
the perfect time, and he flipped that rivalry and and
you're right, it is hard to people want that again.
They want that feeling again, and I don't. I don't
know if they can ever have. No, they do.

Speaker 5 (53:37):
And then think about what that all culminated with trouble,
trouble with the staff, unbelievab Right, Yeah, you go to
this run where you're physically just mauling them and you're
you're dominating in that way, right, You're just better in
every way. And then when they start to get good
a little bit again, you still in their place, you know,

(53:57):
win And then probably the most iconic moment in this rivalry,
it's uh, it's really something. In one last quick reference
to Mike he made he made a good observation. I
think that's true. Maybe you and I have talked about
this poort too, But the Michigan State football job, head
coaching job is a much more front facing job than
the Michigan job. The responsibilities are different, right, And and

(54:20):
maybe Jonathan Smith is suffering because of that, And I'm
not saying he doesn't understand that, but where d'antonia was
just a natural in that role. Even Tucker got that
a little bit before it went sideways.

Speaker 4 (54:31):
Right, No, Tucker got it.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
I mean Tucker sitting on the bus that COVID year
after that twenty twenty game in the front seat with
Paul Bunyan pointing at him taking a photo. I mean
that that is capturing. That is understanding what people want
in that moment and what they feel and and and
leaning into that. I mean, he got it too, you know, yeah, it's.

Speaker 5 (54:52):
I mean, that's Michigan. You don't you have to take
care of a different kind of demographic. And you know,
you know what I mean, the Haughtie, you know, you
got to you gotta make sure you don't like rich
Ardriguez came in ann Arbor and and wasn't about any
of that at all. And obviously he didn't win, and
that was ultimately what cost him. But he alienated people
almost immediately because he didn't connect with Michigan. And that

(55:15):
you need to write. And it's it's really interesting how
that works.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
For uh. For I let you go, I want to
ask you a little about the Lions. You've watched the
last two years. They look great on Monday Night, and
you know, I think they were fine enough even though
things didn't go well in Kansas City. It feels like
they're they're rolling along like they have the last two
years are there? How are they different than any of

(55:42):
those two years? And are there reasons to think? Like
right now it feels like it's a get them to
the playoffs. Healthy is really what matters. This team is
gonna be fine there. They're gonna have a chance. Just
got to stay healthy and key parts. Is there anything
is the regular season goes along before that though that
you think this is really interesting to watch. This is
where they're better. This is what they still need to show.

Speaker 5 (56:03):
I think I think they had the potential. I don't
want to say, well, they've already shown some of this
to a degree. I think they have the potential to
be that to be better than they were a year ago.
Like to me, this is the most complete and balanced
roster that they've got and I know what's similar to
a year ago. And they lost Frank rag now and

(56:24):
that's a big loss. And to me that that look, yeah,
health on defense matters, but they're now despite what we
saw the other night, you take away gives the seventy
year touchdown run, which obviously is is electric as anything.
And I mean to start sort of fun and thrilling
power they have on the team right now offensively is

(56:46):
really something. But they're not running the ball this year
as well. They didn't run the ball that well the
other night, you know what I mean, They're not they
have moments where they are. They didn't run the ball
very well against Kansas City and which is why they
really didn't take any shots down the field. You know,
we obviously saw that against Green Bay. But I think

(57:07):
there's room for growth there because those guys in the
middle of that line are still young. Not not Glasgow,
but Ratleige and Mahogany, those two guards, and I just
I feel like if they can keep getting better there,
and Taylor Decker is key to all this. You know,
they didn't have the obviously against Kansas City, and he
makes a huge difference because then John Morton doesn't have
to shift and say, okay, we need extra protection over here.

(57:30):
That the playbook is a little bit more open and
free when Decker's there, you can do a little bit more.
But I think as long as they keep getting better
offensively and even the timing a little bit, I think
they got a chance to be I don't want to
say a dominant team, but something close to that. Man
assuming health on defense, because just the culture gram that

(57:53):
the way these guys get after it, the way they
play in high leverage situations on the on the nation stage.
I mean, what what Dan Campbell is doing is is
to me really something. I think he's even underrated, to
be honest with you. I mean, you know, people think
he's a meet at He's not. Everybody does, but he's not.
He's fine to let people think that, which I think

(58:14):
it makes him really endearing. But I think he might
be a Saban, I really do. I mean, he does
not get the credit schematically, and the way he sees football.
We've maybe you know, I have talked about this. It's
a little bit like with Iso. You know, ISO sees
the game at a level that not a lot of
coaches see, but people just think he's a you know,

(58:34):
he gets it done by you know, raising his voice,
and that's that's the total of service to what ISO does.
And there's a similarity with Campbell in that way. But
in any in any case, yeah, help and get that
offensive line and the timing going to me though the
most balanced team in the league.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
I'm looking over at Jason. He's fully erect after hearing
all that stuff, So I I appreciate you lifting his
spirits and making him feel good. That's the taint. Sean,
appreciate you, man. We'll talk some pistons next time or something.
It just doesn't know the season I had to start.
We'll figure that in. Look forward to seeing you in
the box on Saturday.

Speaker 5 (59:13):
Night, all to see up there and we'll, yeah, we'll
talk about this six foot four Cunningham or whatever it is.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Yeah, look forward to it.

Speaker 5 (59:21):
Man, have a good one, Ally.

Speaker 3 (59:23):
Sean Windsor from the Free Press, how you doing over there?

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Yeah, it was quite the sixty nine session. It's like
a first ever for the show. Is like a sports
writer who had a sixty nine sash at breakfast brings
the conversation to a sixty nine sash with another.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
Sports writer on a podcast.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
It was just an unbelievable sixty nine session. And you're
saying I got a rod over here. I mean, it's
just very uncomfortable. We had the you know, the governor
on we're talking about getting rid. I know, that's I
just that's the taint. I was probably watching this. Yeah,
I doubt it.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
I hope not. Yeah, it's probably dipped out at her interview.
We are who we are, you know, we have to absolutely.
I mean, the show is called Couch in the Room.
I mean, yeah, yeah, no.

Speaker 4 (01:00:03):
It was impressive. I just you know, you know, talking
about Michigan State fans and you can say anything and say,
there's going to be someone that thinks that out there.
I just think that people in my life or someone
I respect would not root for Michigan to beat Michigan State. Yeah,
there's just no way anyone in my life is that way.
I don't believe that you might be able to say

(01:00:24):
it out loud, right, but as someone that is dead inside,
it's hard to really come down on someone else if
you are dead inside. But I feel even if you're
dead inside, right, there's no way you want Michigan to
beat Michigan State unless there was some caveat attached to it.
Of like if Jonathan Smith beats Michigan, he stays on
for one more year. So I do think I think

(01:00:45):
then then people might be against. Yeah, I mean, I
think that the fact that question is being asked is
well asked by who. But we see people on Twitter
saying it's a fact.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
Right right, and maybe not by it, but the fact
that Lakers said it, you know, like oh, Michael Rosenberg
said it, and I don't know where he saw legend. Yeah,
So I think the fact that it's being asked shows
how out people are on on Jonathan Smith. I thought
Rosenberg was just asking whether or not that that's what
we want to stay saying. But the fact that he's
asking it's interesting somewhat. Well, what else you gont to

(01:01:17):
talk to Windsor about it?

Speaker 4 (01:01:18):
Breakfast?

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
I mean, can you imagine Rosenberg and Windsor Breakfast, all
the philosophizing that goes on, It'd be absolutely absolutely there's
a podcast, Yeah, yeah they should people. Not enough people
just put a mic down when they have breakfast. All
the chewing here that get out plates be absolutely brutal.

(01:01:39):
All right, we are going to take another quick break.
We come back. Harry Gagnan will pick the M s U.
Michigan games again and all the games against the spread
uh and and get his best bets elsewhere as well.
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(01:04:05):
three and Casting Company. But we have Harry Gagnon on
right now and the great Harry Gagnon from big al
dot com and also the new Still Against All Odds pod,
which you can download everywhere you get your podcasts. Great stuff.
Glad to have that crew back.

Speaker 4 (01:04:21):
The boys are back are Joel Solomon. He's really good
at as the host there. So yeah, it's fun to
have you guys back. Arey, it's awesome.

Speaker 9 (01:04:28):
Thanks guys, thanks for thanks for he and by the way, guys,
uh yeah, we're back Still against our Odds. We'll be
taping today, we'll have one out another podcast tomorrow. And
I know I've been I've been on the road doing
a bunch of things. I missed to you guys a
couple I do want to say you guys, man sorry
about the Tigers. That was a tough one, man, that
was a tough one. I was rooting for the Tigers,
rooting for you guys. I was a little rough.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Let me ask you this, would you rather be lose
of the Tigers and the fifteenth or is the Tigers
losing the fifteenth inning of the al Ds, or be
the Mariners who around later blow a three to one
lead and losing Game seven of the ALCS.

Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
Mariners.

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
You'd rather be the Mariners, Okay, yeah right?

Speaker 9 (01:05:11):
At least yeah, yeah, I mean that one's prutal too,
but at least you got there. Yeah, you got to
the you got a l cys, So I agree either way,
it's both, no doubt about.

Speaker 4 (01:05:22):
I sat through a fifteen inning game, yeah, and lost.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
I broke. I broke a treadmill. I broke a treadmill,
of course, walking ten miles or more. Yeah, because the
game just went in. The treadmill just quit, and I
had to order a new one, which just arrived yesterday.
I put it together.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
The couch is always on the treadmill, yeah, which begs
the question, what would he look like if there was
no treadmill?

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
Can you imagine? And I'm still yeah, yeah, treadmill and
muskox is save ors.

Speaker 9 (01:05:45):
That's why, that's why, that's why you look so good
in muscot Right.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
Yeah, that's it. That's the treadmill. It's it's uh uh yeah.
All right, Well let's let's you've got some good games
to get to here before we do that. Let's go
through some games for this weekend. We got Michigan Michigan State.
But let's start, let's start elsewhere. Let's let's let's build
into that a little bit. Ucla plus twenty five and

(01:06:08):
a half Indie at Indiana. This is one of my
favorite games because in not favorite games a bet, but
most intriguing games, I should say, because Indiana is a juggernaut.
I think they're legitimately a top you know, couple three
team in the country. Uh. Ucla has turned a corner
like nothing else, one of the great stories in college football.
And I don't think they're a bad team. And you

(01:06:29):
have this spread up there that's not that different than
what the spread was against Michigan State. They're going all
the way out east again. I you know, for the
purposes of our show here, Signetti does not lay off
or anything like that. But I think Ucla is found
a little something to the point that they'll keep this
to about three touchdowns. I think they're there are more
of a competitive real team than than than than we imagine.

(01:06:52):
I would take Ucla on this just slightly. Jason ware you, Yeah,
this spread has thrown me a little bit, but at
first glance, Harry, I like, use Ucla plus twenty five
and a half Indiana what four and three against the spread?
I just think that Indiana wins this game. And Signetti
does scare me at home because he does like to
run up the score and as a better you like
to stay away from coaches on the opposing.

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
Side like that. But I just think twenty five and
the hooks too much. Give me Ucla. What do you got?

Speaker 9 (01:07:18):
I don't know, guys. Look in, Indiana doesn't get enough
credit for how good the defense is. That really shut
down more from ndleta Oregon on the road and got
a nice win. Yeah, and this Ucla is a good story.
They playing top. It's a nice run by them. But
Indiana's looking for the big time here and I think

(01:07:39):
they blow UCLA out. As UCLA has to go back
east again. Fernando Mendoza needs a big stat padding game
for the Heisman. Got twenty one touchdowns, two picks. He's
completing seventy four percent of the bads is. I think,
you know, a nice run, like you guys said, definitely
against UCLA and promising season for them, but in this spot,

(01:08:01):
I think they get trounced.

Speaker 4 (01:08:03):
Is this game big noon?

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
I believe? Yeah, I believe this is noon. So U
c l A is going on another nine am start.
But didn't hurt him and samish you yeah, all right?
And if U c l A does something here, then
then then maybe the U c l A loss wasn't
that bad. She can say, we're going to reconsider everything.

Speaker 4 (01:08:21):
What about the Boston College?

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
All right, two of the most expensive rosters in college football,
Texas A and M minus two and a half? Uh
at LSU. Who there's some Brian Kelly whispers that like,
people aren't real thrilled there and they're five and I
mean they're five and two. People love Elco. You know,
this is interesting because this is basically Texas A and
M a favorite on the road at l s U.

(01:08:46):
Give me the home dog here. I know L s
U has not been great. I'm sorry. Give me l
s U and Brian Kelly getting points at home. Uh,
that's a night game, I believe too. And in that
vallely what h or whatever they call it, what do
you have?

Speaker 4 (01:09:01):
I'm with you, you know, as a home dog, this
is a must win for a spot for Brian Kelly. Right,
you can't have three losses and going to the college
football playoff. And by the way, the two losses LSU
has is at Ole Miss and at Vanderbilt, two really
good teams. Those are on the road, so you're at home.
Give me the points in a muscle win situation for
Brian Kelly and the Tigers. What do you got here?

Speaker 9 (01:09:22):
I'm with you, guys. If I lose this, I won't
be upset because you guys know how I feel about
Brian Kelly. I can't stand him. But again, you know,
interesting number here, especially after losing to Vanderbilt and the undefeated,
but two of their wins they gave up forty points
and that includes last week against the two and five

(01:09:43):
Arkansas team. LSU it's a dog and Dutt Valley. That
doesn't happen often. I think they'll pull this one out.
And I'm with you guys.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
All right, question for you, Harry. You're a pirate. You're
on a pirate ship. You're the captain of a pirate ship.
You've got two planks, right, you got somebody can walk
to the plank. They're tied up, they're gonna, you know,
plunge to their death. It's it's Andy Reid and Brian Kelly,
the two guys blindfolded the end of a plank. But
you've gotta let you've got to spare one and push
the other. Who do you spare Brian Kelly or Andy Reid?

Speaker 9 (01:10:15):
I probably believe it or not, spare Andy Reid because
at least Andy Reid uh isn't a jerk to the media,
isn't a jerk of women in the media, which Brian
Kelly has been in the past when he was at
Notre Dame, and he hasn't been. He hasn't been that
great at l s U either. So I think I
think i'd go, you know what, I'd spare Andy Reid

(01:10:37):
uh and and I'd tell Brian Kelly the you.

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
Know, finish off, Yeah yeah, start dancing. Yeah all right,
it's the true hatred from Brian Kelly. Great question, Graham,
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
I was gonna ask the governor that earlier, but I
thought i'd go a different direction. Yeah, uh, probably not
to anyway. NFL games, well, just collapse on.

Speaker 9 (01:11:04):
The plank himself because.

Speaker 4 (01:11:05):
He was too heavy though, I mean coomebye. Guy likes nuggies.
You know what are supposed to do. It's big boned.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
That's right. I'm not no fat shaming here on this show.
All right, Vikings NFL games plus three at Chargers. The
Chargers not the same upfront they've been I just you know,
I don't know. I don't know who's at quarterback here.
I assume it's Went. I think that's what they're getting

(01:11:33):
on the road, a game that'll be mostly at Vikings crowd.
That's the thing that makes this so interesting. I like
the Vikings defense. I don't love the Chargers offensive line.
I think the line is about right. Strangely, I just
have this weird feeling that the Vikings are going to
be in this game right to the end. I'll take
the three. Give me the Vikings.

Speaker 4 (01:11:48):
Yeah, this is why did you put this game on here?
I just think the Chargers have been bad ever since
Joe Alt has been out, don't I don't know when
the timetable for him to come back. But I'm with you.
I'm give me the point. The Chargers are a dumpster
fire right now. So give me the Vikings plus three.
What you got here?

Speaker 9 (01:12:03):
Yeah, this is a really tough game, Jay, I think
you're right. Since all it's been hurt, it's all been
downhill for the Chargers. Gave up a ton of points
last week against the Colts and home. I don't know.
I just I'll take the Chargers because maybe they get
a home win here again, tough game, Wentz has been terrible.
You could see the some frustrations on Justin Jefferson from

(01:12:25):
last week too.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
You know, Herbert, come on.

Speaker 9 (01:12:30):
Like you started off. You know, at one point, I
think Herbert was at four to one to win MVP.
You gotta step it up, you gotta play better. I
know you've got injuries all over the place, but be
a leader here. Continue drives, don't get stalled, Vikings defensive top.
You're right, guys, but I don't like this game because
there's a tough one. But I'll take the Chargers reluctantly.

Speaker 4 (01:12:52):
Yeah, why'd you put that game?

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Sorry? I'm gonna ask all right, favorite game of the
weekend because of what it means. Bears plus six and
a half at Ravens. The Ravens are one and five.
They're coming off a BUYE should have Lamar back little healthier.
They got to start winning games to catch the four
and two Steelers and and and their schedule sets up
nicely if they can get on a roll here. You

(01:13:14):
could see how it happens. But you lose this game,
and all of a sudden, you're you know, the Bears
aren't playing poorly, and you're you're one and six, and
now the playoff pat just gets more and more tricky.
Is this sort of a lost season? A lot at
stake for the Ravens. It's a big number here coming
off to buy though. I just I like the Ravens here.
I'm curious about this game, uh, Jason Warre, you.

Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
Yeah, but their defense is so bad. I just the Ravens,
that is. I want the Ravens not only to cover this, Harry,
but to beat the Bears, because I absolutely hate the
Bears now and Ben Johnson so don't listen to me,
and because I'm just gonna spite bet this and bet
against the Bears. So give me the Ravens plus that
six and a hook at home? What do you got?

Speaker 3 (01:13:54):
Weight?

Speaker 9 (01:13:54):
Does seem high?

Speaker 3 (01:13:55):
Right?

Speaker 9 (01:13:55):
Does seem high? Considering the Bears won four in a row.
Williams nine touchdowns to three pecks, He's doing all right.
I don't know, I'm gonna take the points here. I
get it. I understand why it's this big, but I'm
gonna take the bets. I got confidence in them. Danas
Whip's got six hundred total yards rushing and receiving. He's

(01:14:15):
getting it done. Past couple of weeks, he's been very productive.
I just I don't know, that's too many. I think
for a team that's that's as bad as what we've
seen out of this Baltimore's defense.

Speaker 3 (01:14:27):
All right, Cowboys plus three at Broncos. Cowboys are a
fun team to watch. Broncos. You know, weird game last
week they have thirty three points in the fourth quarter
or whatever. I mean, just couldn't do anything for a while.
Broncos defense is good, Cowboys have not been. But I
actually I like the Cowboys here. I just I don't
trust the Broncos yet, and I think the Cowboys can

(01:14:48):
put up points. And what scares me a little bit
is there's always a Cowboys bump in the spread. Like
so many people bet America's team, so to speak, that
if it's plus three, it probably ought to be you know,
plus four, and you're losing a point there or something.
But I don't know. I just have a hunch that
the Cowboys are gonna score. And I don't know if
the Broncos keep pace.

Speaker 4 (01:15:06):
In my wrong, Jason, I like the I don't know
what the over under is in this game, but I
think I would like to add that to a parlayer
two or sprinkle something on that. But yeah, the Cowboys
offense averaging thirty one and a half points a game.
Harry the defense for the Cowboys. I just think the
Broncos use it all against the Giants. So I like
the Cowboys on the road here getting three give me that,

(01:15:28):
what do you got?

Speaker 9 (01:15:29):
Yeah, look, I'm gonna I'm gonna take Denver And I
understand Dak has looked great three touchdowns again last week,
No Picks, hasn't been turning the ball over. But I'm
gonna take Denver here. Yeah, maybe they did burn up
a lot, and sometimes you just don't know what you're
getting from o Nicks. You can go three quarters where
he looks kind of crappy and then all of a sudden,

(01:15:51):
wam bam. He had four touchdowns to rushing to receiving
in the fourth quarter last week against the Giants. I
just think more than their offense is going to be
their defense. It's going to be the demise of Dallas
on Sunday. This Denver Broncos team has thirty four sacks. Guys,
thirty four they leave the NFL. That's eight more than
the Rams do, who are second. I think that that's

(01:16:14):
gonna give a lot of problems for Dak and you
will see him throw an interception or two against his
Denver defense. I'm gonna take the Broncos over the Cowboys,
all right.

Speaker 3 (01:16:23):
Last NFL game before you do, the Michigan Michigan State game.
Packers minus three at Steelers. You know, the Steelers are
interesting because I kind of thought they were kind of
fraudulent for a while, and I'm wondering if I was wrong.
No and no, okay, all right, I'm sorry, thank you,
thank you. And the Packers, you know, I mean, the
Packers have found their footing again. The Cardinals game was

(01:16:45):
interesting last week. Sometimes I don't think there is Sometimes
I think they should be better than they look. But
I think the Packers are the better team here. And
if it was outside of three, I'd probably take the Steelers.
It was inside of three or inside, I'm gonna take
the Packers. I'm on the Packers here. I don't love
it because I just I don't trust the Packers yet,
I don't know, you know, I don't know if I

(01:17:06):
want to ever trust the Packers. I don't think it's
good for the Lions, but give me the Packers.

Speaker 4 (01:17:09):
Jason Ware you Yeah, I don't trust Tomlin. I don't
trust that secondary. That Bengals game. Harry's absolutely burned in
my brain where Flacco is just throwing to Jamar Chase
whenever he wanted to and T Higgins and I think,
you know, I know, the Packers wide receiver corps is
banged up. They might get Watson, Christian Watson back, but
I think Jordan Love can carve this team up. And
the Packers minus three is my pick?

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
What you got?

Speaker 9 (01:17:32):
Yeah, I'm with you guys here. Look, I mean green
Bay's defense much better than Pittsburgh's. I mean, we hadn't
seen anything out of the Cincinnati offense pretty much the
whole season, and then all of a sudden, Flacco just
comes there and after a couple drives to start the
game on Thursday that weren't great, all of a sudden,
the Pittsburgh couldn't stop them for anything. And not to

(01:17:53):
mention you guys know what I feel about Aaron Rodgers
by the way, that walking the playing thing with Kelly
and Andy Roids. Yeah, give me Aaron Rodgers ahead of
those guys first. Get him out good, by the way.
By the way, in that Thursday game. I mean, like,
just I don't know, man, I just can't stand Aaron Rodgers. Unlikable.

(01:18:14):
He's so phonyish, like even when his teammates are hanging
with him and celebrating the touchdown, he's getting mad at
them for tackling him. Just unlikable, dude.

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
We'll use it as forties. I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:18:25):
In defense of Rogers, though his teammate did. Like his
teammate was three hundred and seventy pounds and jumped on
top of him.

Speaker 9 (01:18:31):
It was kind of I know, I know, but don't
you know whose cameras are on here. It's not a
good look. I just didn't like it. I just don't
like him.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
I don't like him all right, before we get to
your I would love to see this plank situation before U.
Before we get to your best bet Terry the Michigan
Michigan State game. Michigan is a fourteen and a half
point favorite at MSU. You know this is a Michigan
team that is better than MSU. I think it's the
line of scrimmage. But they have not you know, they

(01:19:01):
beat Wisconsin by fourteen, and that was in ann Arbor.
They you know, they haven't they haven't overwhelmed teams. They
you know, they beat a bad Nebraska team by three.
All of that said, as much as I say the
rivalry changes things, I think it does. I think this
is a rivalry. This is a game that where there's
just there's a different intensity to it, and it makes
it different to execute in it, and it changes it.

(01:19:24):
It's hard to look at other games. I think that
works in Michigan's favor too. I mean this, this could
be a Michigan team that has some advantages up front
and maybe that shows up and they just they get
out in front and Michigan State can't stop them, and
they get back and pressure Childs and this winds up
being a disaster for ms You you can absolutely see
that scenario. But we're talking about a Michigan team that

(01:19:45):
lost by eighteen points at USC. Michigan State lost by fourteen.
There beat Wisconsin by fourteen. Wisconsin's horrible beat Nebraska by three.
Nebraska's awful Michigan State should have won that game and
did beat Washington. It was a good washing team by seventeen,
but that was in ann arbor. To me, fourteen and
a half is too much, not that it again, I

(01:20:06):
would limit the amount of money you put on this
if you're going one way or another. But I think
fourteen is like I'm picking thirty one twenty. I think
it's that sort of game, but I'm picking one thirty
one twenty because I don't think Michigan State will finish
every drive. I think Michigan State will move the ball
some and if they wind up with a couple more touchdowns,
they could be right in this game. Touchdowns instead of

(01:20:27):
field goals. Yeah, I just think Michigan State is the
play here relative to fourteen and a half, which is
a big, big number. If it gets under fourteen, you
know when it has it opened. That was a little different,
Jason Worry.

Speaker 4 (01:20:40):
Yeah, everything that you said. I just think that Michigan
is going to be able to run the ball and
run some clock. And I think the fourteen and a
half with Michigan State's offense and this rivalry here, I
mean everything that Graham mentioned. You can take that into account.
I didn't really need that because of a rivalry of game,
and I've seen worse Michigan State teams compete in the
games like this and the fourteen and a half, And
when you have Childs and marsh, I just think I

(01:21:02):
have to take the fourteen and a half. It's too much,
it's too heavy. So give me the Spartans and the
fourteen in the hook. What do you got?

Speaker 9 (01:21:09):
Well, you know, when I first looked at the line,
first looked at the line, I thought it was too high.
And I haven't been overly impressed with this Michigan team
all season yet. And you mentioned grand that game where
they just kind of went through the motions against Wisconsin,
a bad Wisconsin team, and didn't cover the spread. But
I don't know. I just I think Michigan can unload

(01:21:30):
it at any given time, possibly, and this Michigan State defense,
I just can't buy into it. I'm gonna lay the
fourteen and a half. Michigan State's given up thirty eight
points or more, excuse me, thirty eight points straight up
three games in a row. They've given up thirty eight
or more in five of the last six. When they

(01:21:50):
played at Eastlantic a couple of years ago. I know
a different team in Michigan and all they're a lot better,
but they still beat them forty nine to nothing. Sorry, guys,
I can't take the fourteen and a half. I'll lay
it with Michigan.

Speaker 3 (01:22:02):
You don't have to apologize to us. I mean, there's
there's reasonable analysis for that. I mean Michigan State's Michigan
States defense has not been good. Now two of the
offenses those three straight games where they've given up that
many points, where USC whose offense can really get going.
In Indiana U C. L A though, was a different story,
and they didn't you know, they kind of they look
defeated in that game. That said, I think it'll be

(01:22:22):
interesting because you talked about Michigan sort of sleepwalking through Wisconsin.
Michigan will not sleepwalk through this game, primetime game against
Arrival at East Lanting. Michigan State will give everything that Like,
I truly think we will have an understanding of where
these the gap between these two teams at the end
of this game, and whether Michigan State has the the
parts to make up for it and and and at
least make this close. It will be will be interesting.

(01:22:46):
Harry you have a couple other really good bets here.
You like Iowa and Mississippi State on a teaser this
weekend on a.

Speaker 9 (01:22:56):
Teaser seven point teaser, I'm gonna go Iowa from eight
and a half at home down to one and a
half against Minnesota. Look, Iowa has two losses this year.
They came to Indiana and Iowa State by a combined
eight points. They have not lost at home at Kinnick
Stadium in conference play since November twenty twenty three, except

(01:23:19):
just one time, and that was this year against Indiana
by just five points and held them to twenty points
in that game. This Mark Granowski, their quarterback, Iowa's and
Camari Maulton two hundred and forty yards rushing combined versus
Penn State last last week, and they had two touchdowns

(01:23:40):
in Minnesota. I know they are three and one in
the conference, five and two overall, but I think Iowa
is going to pound them with their running game. Two
weeks ago, Minnesota had a rally and have two touchdowns
scored in the fourth quarter to be a two to
five Perdue team. And by the way, that Perdue team

(01:24:01):
ran on them for two hundred and fifty three yards
and two touchdowns. I think it's a ground game clusher
for Iowa. They get it done. Just gotta win. Basically
got to this win by two points or more. And
I'm gonna take Mississippi State against Texas at home in
Starkville from seven up to fourteen. This Texas team, I
just don't see it out of them. They're just one

(01:24:22):
and two on the road. They barely pulled out a
game in overtime last week on the road at Kentucky,
sixteen to thirteen in overtime. Mississippi State beat Arizona State
in Startfille. This year now, they have not won a game. Guys.
They have not won an SEC game since November twenty second.

(01:24:44):
In November twenty twenty two, they have not won an
SEC game. I think this might even change. I'm gonna
take the fourteen, but I'll tell you what. This team
lost by two last week. They want this win. They
got to kill the rest of the schedule, So this
is a game the keying on. They took Tennessee a
few weeks back to overtime. Last week, they lost by

(01:25:06):
two in the swamp to Florida. The quarterback plague shaping
at three hundred and twenty four yards and three touchdowns
against the Gators. I think this is a spot where
the cow bells are gonna be going crazy. Arch Man's
not gonna know what to do. Don having to win
by fifteen or more. I just don't see it. I
think min Semi State, it's really up for this game
plus fourteen with the Bulldogs the Hawkeyes at minus one

(01:25:29):
and a half.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
Beautiful man, all right, Dot, you like you have a
couple World Series thoughts to Dodgers minus one and a
half games and Freeman nine to one for MVP.

Speaker 9 (01:25:42):
I do like, you know, yeah, definitely. I like, look,
we saw what O'tonney did. It was amazing, and then
you know the team is absolutely on fire after they
swept Milwaukee and all. But how about Freddy Freeman for MVP.
You can get him at nine to one. I've seen
him up to eleven to one. He's been quiet so far,
no doubt about it. In this postseason. Only about in

(01:26:03):
two thirty one. He's got one home run and one RBI.
But if you remember last year in the World Series
he hit the Grand Slam in Game one to win
the game for the Dodgers. He had homers in four
of the five games versus the Yankees last year had
hits in all five games, and he had twelve total
RBIs in the World Series. So why not, Freddie Preman,

(01:26:26):
if you can get him at ten to one around that,
that'd be fantastic. And I got the Dodgers to win
the World Series. But I'm gonna lay one and a
half games at like minus one fifteen.

Speaker 3 (01:26:36):
We know.

Speaker 9 (01:26:37):
Like again, like I just mentioned the offense. We can
talk about the offense all day, but I think it's
going to be based on the pitching for the Dodgers,
which has been off the charts here so far. In
the postseason, he got Tyler Glass now, who came over
from Tampa Bay. In the postseason so far, his era
zero point sixty eight, Yamamoto one point eight three. In

(01:26:59):
the post which included who goes a complete games anymore?
He did a complete game against Milwaukee in their sweep
against the Brewers and Lake Snell. He's only pitched in
like fifteen games this year, guys, so he's usually hurt.
He is healthy as a horse. He's been unbelievable, really
the unsung hero on this staff for the Dodgers. He's

(01:27:23):
got twenty eight strikeouts in twenty one innings with a
zero point eighty six ERA in the postseason as well.
I mean, those eras are incredible. I'm gonna ta I mean, look,
the Blue Jays, great story, first time since ninety three
in the World Series. Guerrero's crushing the ball. Springer, playoff
veteran who can get it done, but just not enough

(01:27:44):
pitching here. Dodgers get to him.

Speaker 3 (01:27:47):
I'm gonna lay the one and a half lastly NBA
Finals pick, and I like this pick. I have some
Nuggets futures out there, but you have Denver over the Calves.
What are you getting that at? If you go with
that exact matchup in Denver over the Cavs in the finals.

Speaker 9 (01:28:03):
You know what, I haven't seen the exact price yet,
but that's what I'm gonna go with.

Speaker 3 (01:28:07):
That's what I like. Guys.

Speaker 9 (01:28:09):
You know Cleveland sixty four wins last year, number one
seedson East. I know they tanked in the playoffs against Indiana,
but they don't have to worry about Halliburton this year
or Tatum this year in the East. Jared Allen is
a double double machine. Garland is now healthy. DeAndre Hunter
pretty much does everything for this team, and you got
Mitchell and Mobley who are all stars. So I'm gonna

(01:28:31):
take Cleveland out of the East and in the West,
I'm taking the Nuggets. Problem with the Nuggets last year,
they were not They didn't have any depths, they didn't
have a bench. They just left down Christian Brown for
five years. They got Tim Hardaway junior on the team,
who I believe we're gonna have as a guest next
week on still against a lot, so that should be
a lot of fun. They got Bruce Brown back from

(01:28:53):
a couple of years ago. And I think key acquisitions
guys Cam Johnson. I mean, this is the guy who
averaged nineteen to four and four shot forty eight from
the nets last year on a bad team, and now
also Joker. It doesn't have to do it all. They've
got out. They got Vallas Shunas to back him up
in center too. So I think Denver is very deep

(01:29:13):
and I think Cleveland's still very good from the sixty
four wins season last year. I think those are the
two teams that are gonna meet in the NBA Finals.

Speaker 3 (01:29:20):
Yeah, and you have to think because I think both
teams are like six fifty to win the NBA Finals.
So at that, you know, if you're if you're picking
the matchup and picking Denver, Uh, when you can find
that out there, you're gonna you're be looking at what
thirty to one something in that range. I think I
think there's there's good value there. Harry, you're a beautiful
band man. Thanks for carving out time for us and

(01:29:42):
and uh not putting us on the plank with Andy
Reid and and and the rest of those blubs.

Speaker 9 (01:29:47):
Always guys, take care sah, wow.

Speaker 4 (01:29:53):
He was Did you watch the Opening Night at NBC
on NBA, the NBA and What the fuck NBA on
NBC last night?

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):
I watched a little of it. It felt big. They
do a nice job of it feels like an NFL game.

Speaker 4 (01:30:05):
It is wild how different it looks than from like
a T and T experience. I was like, I did
watch the Michael Jordan halftime interview, which I don't know. Yeah,
I mean, I wish they could do more with MJ.
But what are you supposed to do? MJ runs the show.
I think when you offered to do it, like any
nugget or morsel he gives you or something, no I
feel like it could be better. Harry was fired up

(01:30:26):
about some of those picks, like the Iowa pick, like
it just detailed analysis today, detailed analysis. No one's been
that excited about Iowa's offense since I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:30:35):
Know, long long long time, yeah, a long long time.
We appreciate all of you for supporting us. We'll be
back with our groovy donuts. Twitter question Social media question
show on Friday. We appreciate Sean Windsor joining us. We
appreciate Harry joining us. We appreciate Governor Whitmer joining us.
We appreciate Front forty three and Casking Company. You're looking

(01:30:56):
for a date night this weekend, a place to watch
the game, a place for happy hour, whatever it might be.
Casking Company Front forty three. You go to Casking Company
dot com. Check out their menu. You'll love it. You
make a reservation there too, which I recommend Thursday through
Saturday night, especially it does get busy there. They'll take
care of you. You can put on you can write
in where you want to be, which side Front forty
three or Casking Company, what time and all that stuff.

(01:31:19):
Casking Company dot Com Good show man, IMN couching the
room

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