Ep. 1090: Hot Take Monday: MSU football fury, Lions angst, and MSU basketball recruiting happiness

We dug into our takes and yours — on Michigan State football, the NCAA penalties, Jonathan Smith, J Batt, Alan Haller, etc., on Lions angst and Jared Goff and Dan Campbell, on MSU basketball recruiting, on life and hope and more.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:15):
The above a.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
H wow, oh oh, oh.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh. What do you get when you cross a know
it all newspaper columnist with an awkward word unsophisticated every man?

Speaker 4 (02:03):
Yeah, well, I'm just not sure about that right now.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Welcome to Couch and the Room.

Speaker 4 (02:20):
Welcome to Couch in the Room, our Monday show presented
by our friends at Muskox Quality flannels. Buttery soft built
like a tank. That is I couldn't even That's what
they write on their site, and that's a great way
to describe it. I've been looking for more adjective to
describe the Muscox flannel experience that I've enjoyed thoroughly in
October and November. Today I'm outside shooting a video post

(02:44):
Jonathan Smith press conference. Guy, I'm with codon, cold hat,
unhappy me comfortable, look good, look my best. You can
look your best, feel your best, whether you're outside on
the on the back patio trying and enjoy the final
months of whatever you can do with that this year,
or whether you're at a Christmas party wherever it is.

(03:05):
Look your best, feel your best with a Muskox flannel.
Go Muskox dot com or couch in the Rube. Listeners
get fifteen dollars off with the promo code peacock Jason.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
How you doing brother? Like I'm giggling and laughing right now.
That's the only thing for stopping me from crying, punching
a hole in my wall.

Speaker 5 (03:24):
All of the above. Man, that absolutely sucked.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
What do you want? You know what? Oh? Man? By
the way, can I just tell our listeners and people
watching on YouTube Tony Dombrowski has more subscribers than we do.
And if you guys could just go even if you
just listen to the audio only portion, if you could
go to our YouTube page, do that like and subscribe thing. Listen.
I promise I'm not We're not gonna bother you with

(03:54):
it every video or anything, but please, like we have
to have more subscribers than Tony D. Or maybe some
scribe to Tony D and us both at the same time.
I mean, yeah, and you know again, you can just listen.
You don't have to look at us. No, right, I
won't look at us. Yeah, if you have a YouTube,
just go to it couch the room. They really should.
It really is a misstep by YouTube. They should offer
a like a black screen YouTube or just like a

(04:17):
visual radio only style, it's too early jokes actually, okay,
serious topic here and you were outside where what what
did the Jonathan Smith firing press conference? No?

Speaker 4 (04:27):
No, no, no, no, he's it's all over.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
He's back. He's back.

Speaker 4 (04:31):
He's fighting for his job up there. Subtly, I'm telling
you it was really interesting.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
So it's the vibe of that. But it's not great.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
But he, I mean, to his credit, he has not
been like I mean, to his credit. Well, he's getting
thirty million to go away. I'd be happy as how.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
I'd walk in there and be like, hey, Graham, how's
it going, man? Nice flannel? How do I get one
of those? Well he should say that, right, you know, like,
oh man, the perseverance and just showing up every day
for Jonathan Smith is amazing to me. Like bullshit, give
me thirty million, say whatever you want.

Speaker 4 (05:02):
What I'm saying is other people on the shoes would
be less graceful, is what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
That's all.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Maybe it speaks to and maybe he deserves no credit
but the ball club, but the rest of the world
are just full of dicks because other people would have
handled this poorly. That's all I'm saying. So he may
not be well when your former adh you know, lies
to you apparently you know, Allen Haler, your boy.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
We'll get into that. Yeah, yeah, wait, I can't frigging wait,
oh my god, what are we talking about? The fucking
raps you know?

Speaker 4 (05:32):
I mean, good lord, he is fighting for his job,
though its intertally because he Dan Campbell. Well Campbell should
be fighting for his job too. We'll get into that
in a minute. But the no what I mean by
Jonathan Smith both on Saturday after the Penn State game
where he for the first time used like a timeline
and needing another year, and then today he brought up
the idea that to a the lineman where red shirt
freshman in another year, he keeps using this another year

(05:54):
thing like he's clearly clearly and uh it. But what
is interesting about that is like Matt see and I'm
a freaking out listen to that ship.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
You know, well, I don't think it's gonna matter. No,
you don't think he's gonna talk people into coming back
if he's so good.

Speaker 4 (06:07):
If you can't tell Matt to and Dominic, how do
you sell?

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I mean, David harn told me that he's gonna come
back next year so, I mean it must be true.
When did that? David did not say that. I don't know.
He did not say the followed David, but I heard
the rumor mill that he said he was coming back
hill him another year. Yeah, well should we should? We
just dig into these things? Okay, you want to go first?

(06:33):
You want me to? Yeah, that game yesterday? I mean,
we want to blame the refs, right. And by the way,
the pool reporter did talk to the ref did you
see the chief? The crew chief, Alex Kemp spoke to
a pool report. But how do by the way, how
do I become a pool reporter? Can I do that?
It seems like a great gig. You just have to
go in there and you don't ask any questions whatsoever.

(06:55):
You let a referee make a statement and then you go,
thank you very much and then walk away. What does
that say? It's a complete The official observed the receiver's
arm getting grabbed and restricting him from going up to
make the catch. So the ball was in the air
and there was a grab on the arm and it
restricted him and he called defensive pass.

Speaker 4 (07:12):
You know what else happened? Jim Joyce called, Yeah, I
mean you called something that didn't happen. And that's that's
the problem with the accountability of the poor report situations.
They're not it's not enough. It's one we get in
a judgment call. You called something differently. But what I
need to know is you've seen the film and you
know you made a mistake. I need to hear that
from you, and that's what should be.

Speaker 1 (07:32):
And as well, does that speak volumes about Chris collins Worth,
because that's what everybody was saying, Like even Chris Collinsworth
called out the referees, Like why shouldn't you be able
to call it the referees if they're that bad? I
understand there's a lot of bang bang plays. And by
the way, I'm not blaming that loss last night on
the referees. I just wanted to start there because NFL
refs are ass. But Dan Campbell outdoor Jared Goff is

(07:54):
also ass and you knew that the stats are there, DC, Like,
I need to have better explanation out of you. And
when we have there's a better run D and a
pass D. We can't beat those teams. Our offensive line
is scary, complete ass and we don't have any death
in Brad Holmes let me ask you a question, and
maybe somebody can ask him. What do you think of
what Howie Roseman and the Eagles are doing. Are you

(08:15):
impressed by what they're doing? Because I would be because
they win ball games. Their offense is an absolute nightmare.
I don't know how they wanted to give that game
to us and Graham. That's the other reason why it
frustrates me so much is Philadelphia wanted to give that
game away, and Dan Campbell lost it, and Jared Goff
did as well. He was terrible at you know yesterday,
and no one else is really talking about the you know,

(08:36):
missing Sam Laporta. I think we missed Laporta. Laporta is
a big piece of that offense, and the aman Ros
Saint Brown, the drops and all that stuff.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
How long is Laporta out with it? Four weeks? He's
on the ir so he's at least out for four
weeks as long as it's only that then.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
But I mean, the next guy up, I brock Wright,
blow me. Brock Wright is nowhere near Sam Laporta, right,
And we're sitting there going next man up and this
guy up and that guy up. I just want to
go and get some sort of depth we are, guys.
I mean, Sewell is sitting there, he's hobbling around, rat
Ledge hobbling around, and Frank ragnow absolutely fucked us. And
I hope he's having enjoying retirement and all that stuff.

(09:14):
I get it. The injuries pile up and you just
maybe don't feel like playing anymore. But god, damn it, Frank,
you absolutely fucked us, and I'm really disappointed. I gotta
say that loss last night is definitely a top three
forty nine ers Washington Commanders and you know, and it's
that Eagles game last night because that was supposed to
tell us where we were, and right now where we
are is. I don't know if we're gonna make the playoffs.

(09:36):
I think the schedule lines up to where we can
make the playoffs. But when we do get in there,
but right but what the injuries are gonna keep piling up.
We don't have any depth.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
The bigger problem is that when they make the playoffs,
and I think they will, the schedule is what it
is now.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
I'm not giving up on the season by any means,
but I'm just going like, I just try to look
at the team and going forward, and when you don't
have the depth these other teams have. Well, here's what
the have.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
To look at the game against the Eagles like and
by the way, the ninety five Eagles playoff loss is
still higher ranked than this one in terms of mind.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yess fucking forever. But but I twenty twenty five.

Speaker 4 (10:09):
They have to look at this as a is unequivocal
evidence proof that they're not as good as Eagles, and
the team that was on the field last night in
that circumstance can't win a super Bowl. And so that
doesn't mean you can't win one this season. But what
I mean is you can't just proceed as is. In
other words, because when you look at Seattle's defense, Seattle

(10:32):
nearly beat the Rams despite Sam Darnold throwing four interceptions.
Like that defense is for real. The Rams are tough
on you know, the Rams are scared in Philly. I'm
not really scared of Philly. I mean Philly's defense, but
our defense, by the way, shout out Calvin Sheppard. If
we want to talk about good things that happened last night,
Calvin Shepard had that defense playing and Dan Campbell absolutely
wasted a great defensive performance. I was not that impressed

(10:52):
by Philly. Well, very good. I know they're a good team.
Their offense isn't very good. But I think that if
we were healthier up front, our offensive line was the
way it should be. Frank Ragnow, I wouldn't have been
as scary of Philly yesterday. They will never win another
playoff game once the toush pushes outlawed this postseason. With
Jalen Hurts at quarterback, Jaleen Hurts is an average quarterback
and best.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Oh god, it's really tough to call him average. He's average.
He's average, but I might have fallen off a little bit.
But man, the fuck a J Brown too? It's look
at that guy? It was I'm watching that game and
I keep thinking I would And I don't know. If
this is your gut feeling, and Dan Campbell is the
best coach in Lions history, I think, yes, right, obviously

(11:35):
we're gonna start there. We're nobody's saying this isn't a
Jonathan Smith situation. Nobody's saying fire Dan Campbell. This is
at ninety seven to one. You don't have to preface shit.

Speaker 4 (11:42):
We understand right right, there is a level of this
is okay, come on that was a shitty performance by
Dan Campbell yesterday, and we're gonna talk about it. We're
gonna move on to the Giants. But still I would
prefer someone else would manage the game for the Lions
in the playoffs. Now you can call the plays. I
would prefer the fourth down decisions. And I do wonder
if calling the plays, which is a constant rhythm and

(12:04):
something you have to be totally dialed in out all
the time. Also, you know, takes away from his ability.
It wraps him up too much to think through the
situations a little bit, because you need to be thinking
through situations two three, you know, plays in advance, like okay,
wait if we wind up here, what really makes sense?
And the way you're playing against that defense. This is
the problem with analytics, and this is the problem with

(12:27):
always making one decision. We are a team that goes
forward on fourth down. You have to look at how
your offense is playing, how your quarterback is playing sometimes
you just need points, and how your defense is playing
against a team This offense isn't that great and he
didn't do that, and that's really frustrating and it's a
little scary. So as long as look you would rather
have this game happen than in the playoffs. You'd rather

(12:48):
happen happen now. But it has to be an introspective
moment for him where he thinks through it and says,
you know, look, yeah, I do need to This can
be our identity, but it doesn't mean you don't veer
for it to from it. And it makes sense because
you almost at least two of those times, I really
wanted them to kick the field goal. Did you feel
that way?

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, you want to get those points when
you get down there because we I mean, I know
as a fan, I know Jared Goff is not good.
When he's under thirty two degrees. Numbers just drop off.
So you need to get points when you get into
those areas. And I think Dan Campbell knew that. I mean,
what about the before the first half when you have
time outs and there was a minute to go and
you just run the clock out. I know that we
were getting the ball in the second half, but what

(13:29):
the fuck? Why didn't we try going for it? And
then with five minutes to go when you have three times,
you're down ten and then now you punt. Yeah, like
what I understand it was fourth and ten. It didn't
look great, but what other choice do you have in me?
Philly was trying to get us back into that game,
and we should have. I don't even know what we
would have done if if the refs weren't complete ass
and would have given us given us that ball back.
I don't even know if he would have driven down

(13:50):
and scored a touchdown.

Speaker 4 (13:51):
But this is what I would like for John Morton
to do, because John Morton has been with like some
of the he was with Gruden, who's he else? But
he's been with h He's been with like great coaches. Right,
He's been like the number two offensive guy with head
coaches who were calling the plays before. That's been his role.
He's in a role he's familiar with. So you need
that guy to be your your actual If Dan Campbll's
gonna call the plays, and I don't know that that's

(14:13):
I mean, I think you and I could have called
a successful game against Washington last week given the situation.
But I'm not knocking Dan Campbell to play caller. I'm
just saying I think there's too much on his.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Play right now. Yes, And there's nothing wrong with that, yeah, right,
I know a lot of head coaches call their own plays,
but maybe Dan Campbell is good at being a game manager.
I mean you can still, you know, with John Morton,
have a game plan and if you need to go,
you know, divert or talk to you know, Morton about it.
But why not let Morton call the plays right and
then you control the whole game? No, I just I mean,

(14:46):
I don't know. It just seems like it hasn't worked,
So why not? I mean I don't know, Like you
said with the Commander's game, I mean, Morton probably could
have come back and had a decent game call in
that game, but I'm not I just don't want to
go totally out on Dan Campbell. But that was a
disaster last night. And how else are you supposed to
talk about it. You can't pussy foot around it and go, oh,
you know, Danny gets this team going, like I don't,

(15:07):
I hate that stuff. So no, no, you forgive and forget.
I love Dan Campbell more than my own father, So
it doesn't you know, like it doesn't matter in the end.
He's still going to be the guy and he's our
head coach. But holy hell, last night was a fucking disaster.
Man and Brad Holmes again, I gotta ask you, dude,
I gotta ask you a third round pick for Phillips?
Did you see Philip? I would like to just, you know,

(15:28):
at halftime, Hey, Brad, what'd you think of Phillips in
the first half? You know, that would be nice to
have on the other side of Hutch as he's getting
double and fucking triple teamed and you know, no, it's
it's all I mean, I just I don't. I don't
know where we when you don't have that, that's what
scares me, and especially on that offensive line. And again,
I just don't know weekend week out.

Speaker 4 (15:45):
I don't think there's some like I think there's a
lot of really good players tied up for a while.
I don't think we're in this moment with the Lions
where this is the only two years of their window.
I just think this might be the best two years
of their window. That's what's frustrating, because that it is
when the contracts start to kick in and you do
have to make decisions on guys and maybe, you know,
maybe you shouldn't. I mean, look, right now, James Williams

(16:08):
looks like their best weapon a lot, but you do
have to make decisions on guys, and there is a
cost for that. And I'll say this to Jared Goff,
and I've said this before, and this is where I'm
not wrong. If you are going to make take fifty
five million, if you're going to do the NFL quarterback
salary structure is messed up because it's who'sever next gets
the highest deal or near the top contract. It's not

(16:29):
actually tiered based on ability. Because if you were to
do that and the top guy was making sixty, Jared
Goff should be making forty, right, and there should be
fifteen more million available. But Jared Goff takes what's offered,
and I don't blame him for that. But when you
do that, Frank ragnow gets to retire. You get to
have no depth on the offense line. You have to
be great. You took Josh Allen money, You're asked better

(16:51):
be Josh Allen. If it's not, then you are a
part of the problem and you need to own that.
Every single time you take the Josh Allen money. You
have to be Josh. If you take if he like
if I were him, and you've made a ton of money.
When you weren't even that good because you were a
first round a number one overall pick I would have
had the self awareness. And you don't even live in

(17:11):
California anymore, right, it costs a lot less to live
in Michigan. Like, just take forty forty million is fifty
five million California money. Take forty Michigan money. Take forty
million and be that self aware, allow yourself to have
more help. And I do think they'll restructure his deal
after this year. But still like that is, you can't
look like that. You can't be Jared Goff constant shake

(17:31):
your head, guy if you're gonna take the fifty five million.

Speaker 1 (17:34):
But he has the Kirk Cousins syndrome. And we talked
about Kirk Cousins about when he needed everything to be right,
the elements, the timing, like everything, the coaches had to
be perfect for Kirk Cousins to be successful. And Jered
Goff has a little bit of that in him as well.
And by the way, Jamior Gibbs is the best offensive
player that we have not GI apologize, I mean Jamior
Gibbs and the David Montgomery thing. I don't even know

(17:56):
how many snaps Montgomery should get I don't know, they
try to make them eat cool. But Gibbs is definitely
the guy, and I thought they should have went to
him more when things weren't working last night. But not
having Laporta absolutely sucked and that offense proved it. But
I mean, I don't even know the giants. I mean
with Jamison at this weekend, I mean, what the fuck
are we doing anyway? Oh my god, it's exhausting. Well

(18:18):
you know what? And Smith?

Speaker 4 (18:20):
Yeah, what was better news here? No, sorry, it's not.
We'll get to the uplifting stuff from Amshy Hoops in
a mission, but this, this is not I do want
to say on Jonathan Smith that two things can be true.
Jonathan Smith clearly got a raw deal in Michigan State,
right he took over a program. He apparently didn't know
there was an investigat in NCAA investigation. Now, I do

(18:42):
think that investigation changed in terms of the intensity of
it and what they found and going from like level
three to level one stuff after he got the job.
So I don't you know, a lot of programs have
level three stuff going on all the time. That doesn't
mean he shouldn't have been aware of it, and if
Alan Haller did not share that, first of all, Jonathan Smith,

(19:02):
he's a new agent, because the agent should ask that
that's a pretty basic question. Right, you just fired a
coach who got fired for doing things that were inappropriate. Right,
that's who you're replacing. That should be a pretty basic question.
And in his contract the language.

Speaker 5 (19:19):
I don't I don't have enough time for all of that.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
The language is basically like, it doesn't matter if we're
on probation, you get nothing, Whereas that's not what mel
Tucker's contract. Mel Tucker's contract like had all sorts of
stipulations about like extended years if things went whatever, Like
the contracts are different too, Like Jonathan Smith, maybe he
didn't know. Maybe this was something that maybe he forgot,
like and I do need to talk to Alan Haller

(19:42):
about this, and Haller needs, frankly answer for that. It
does not seem what was actually going on at the
time of the hiring of Jonathan Smith in terms of
where the self reporting stuff was, did not seem like
a serious violation. It did not seem something like you
were going to see vacated wins in these sort of consequents.
And certainly what you couldn't foresee at that point was

(20:04):
the idea that, you know, the NCAA was gonna wait
until January of twenty twenty five to retroactively make a
guy ineligible. You know, like that stuff, that's that's ass,
that's that's shit from the NCUBLEA, the NCUBLEA. I mean, seriously,
this is where Michigan State. I would be stronger in language.
I would because the penalty has been dropped, has been

(20:27):
you've been hit with. It's gonna help you probably in
your settlement with Meltucker. It's a lot less money than Michigan. God,
it's not a lot of you know, people look at
the vacated wins. There are a lot of people around
MSU and around even the Michigan side of things who
can see the difference between thirty million and less than
a million in terms of the finances of the penalties
and see the difference. For MSU that that matters. But

(20:48):
at this point, if I were MSU, I would tell
them to kindly fuck off. You know, is there a
kindly way you can do it?

Speaker 1 (20:56):
I would use it.

Speaker 4 (20:57):
I would use the word kindly kindly fuck off because
like that is shit, and if it takes you that long.
And to me, it's sort of like when you're playing
pickup basketball and you you foul somebody, but they take
three more steps to try to score and then then
call it and you go late call. There is a

(21:17):
there is a you know, and pickup ball you don't.
You don't get that foul. The NCAA analogy should have
a certain amount of time. You can't retroactively somebody like
they didn't mean to play an eligible player. They went
five and seven with that ineligible player, like this was
not malice. And the absence amount you cannot that has
to weigh into things. And beyond that you're talking about

(21:42):
and I understand WHATCHI can say broke the rules, but
you're talking about amount of money that is would not
get would not help you sign any recruit of any
level today. You know, you're talking about like eleven thousand bucks.
You know, just what are we what are we doing here?
But if I were at Michigan State right now, I
would I would use the word kindly and I would
say kindly fuck off. And because it is it, it's

(22:02):
crazy wins. Yeah, I would certainly keep them in my
record books. I would keep them in the record books.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
I mean at some point somebody is just going to
tell the NCAA, you know, you know Michigan is sort
of like Michigan, right right, that's uh so.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
But two things can be true.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
Jonathan Smith got a raw deal and it's also not
going to work with him at MSU. Those two things
can can both exist and you can feel you can
understand that it was a raw deal, and you can
think Michigan State should really work hard to make sure
the next person doesn't get a raw deal like this
is This is not the way you want to treat
a coach coming in. This is not the tenure you

(22:39):
want them to have. This is not the amount of
time you want to give them, but their needs at
this point there just isn't that they need to change
the energy in the program. And this isn't about the
sideline energy of Jonathan Smith. I'm talking about just the
energy around the program.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
It is.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
It's it's not it's not good. What coach can do
that well, a lot of coaches you come in with
a different level of fire, and you come in with
you have to bring hope, like right now, like if
I saw there was any way for Jonathan Smith to
be successful in MSU long term, if I thought this
is the path, like really it is just a year development,

(23:15):
Like he actually this offensive line if they're healthy, and
the guys, if they can just get a little bit
of help here financially and sign a couple of defensive linemen,
like they really aren't that far away. Quarterback back they
get Nick marsh Back, things like that. If you could
make that argument, and boy, if they could, they could
be a seven or eight win team next year and
people just feel good and then they're often running. If

(23:37):
I could see that on the horizon, see that possibility,
I would make the argument for him because it has
been just two years. He is a good guy. He
is the type of person you are representing your program,
and he did get a raw deal. I just don't
see that happening right now when you've lost seven straight
in the Big Ten, when you're not winning any Big
Ten games, and part of the thing you keep saying
is this is a tough league. You know, no shit,

(24:01):
Michigan State has been playing in it for like seventy years.
You have to you have to find a way. If
Michigan State should be a place that's competitive in the
Big Ten. And yes, there will be down years, there
will be up years, but they're the baseline for Michigan
State should be a hell of a lot higher than this.
And and I understand there are, you know, elements. He
may think he's got some young guys on the offensive

(24:21):
line and some injuries and that group could be better,
but that's not enough I think at this point. If
if it's not going to go well at Iowa, and granted,
you know, I look, Aiden Child's the guy that hitch
their wagons to isn't playing right now. And Nick marsh
is barely playing right now. And I'm not saying Nick

(24:43):
marsh is quit on anything. He's out there playing want
to playing a college football game, but he is a
little bit of alligator arms on that one over the
over the over the you know, and I don't blame him. Look,
he's not a guy who's going to the NFL this year.
He's got another year anyway somewhere, and you know he
can go there and have a great year. Why why

(25:03):
risk the extra you know, all out on this. And
again I'm not saying I am always very careful with
guys who are in a college football game because college
football is hard and it's physical, and these guys get
hitt and I'm very careful to use the idea that
somebody's not trying. You can't play this game and not try.
It doesn't work that way. The guys who aren't trying
take themselves out of them. They're on the injury report.

(25:24):
They don't play if you're out there on the field.
But you know, I mean, the other problem is, but
you're also not going to go over the middle and
take a hit for no reason. And you can't have
a situation where Nick marsh and Amari Cooper have like,
you know, five catches total, right, that just can't be
where you're at. And so you've got you've got coaching

(25:45):
situations just in the actual game of it that just
hasn't gotten better. The team is the offense. You're an
offensive head coach. The offense has gotten worse, the defense
has gotten better. I could give them credit, and they
keep fighting. And nobody's saying anybody's quit. But that can't
be your your bar. That can't be your standard either.
And so two things can be true that what happened

(26:07):
to Jonathan Smith at Michigan State should not be the
way you treat higher or you know, fund support a
head coach. This was bullshit by a lot of things
at MSU, from the donor's base to Matt c who
was out too quickly. I've got friends who you know,
didn't didn't like his personality initially. Well, a lot of
people don't like your ear fucking personalities. People don't like

(26:28):
my personality. Fuck your personality. It's about winning. Support the guy.
But all that can be true and it cannot be
a fit, and it cannot be there cannot be evidence
that it's going to get better to the point that
it's ever going to work. And if you know, if
if I thought a year from now it made a

(26:49):
lot of sense to like Poy there might be progress,
I would tell you and I would make that argument.
And for a long time I thought there was a chance.
And I don't think he's a bad coach necessarily. I
hope at forty five years old, I think he still is,
or forty six, whatever it is, you get another chance
at some point. I hope he has great success. I
think there are some good coaches on that staff.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
I think the.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
I think the situation in MSU is not helped certainly,
but they have not proven to warrant more time as
little time as say.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
But let me ask you who what kind of coach
can come in here? I mean, especially look at all
the past stuff that's happened in the past five years
and want to sign up for this. I mean, what
kind of coach are they going to be able to hire?
That's my question. It's still we want to say Franklin
and all the big names, but really, are the big
names going to look at this job and go I
think the university has it their shit together and I

(27:41):
want to come there and win games.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
I don't know if what you do have now is
you have a relatively new president, relatively new athletic directors,
you'd be hired by people look like they're going to
be in place now. That said, I think Jonathan Smith
thought Allen Haller was going to be in place. And
I am a proponent of like I know, a lot
of people come into jobs for three four years, fix
it and leave and all that stuff. I don't like
presidents and ads of colleges. You either sign up for

(28:06):
eight years or you don't make any big decisions. To me,
and I'm not saying you can't be fired before then.
But you can't go take another presidency or another ad
job if you you know, because then there's it creates instability,
like I would put that in contracts. You want to
go run a fortune five hundred company, go do it.
You're not taking over another university if you do less
than eight years at this university or you're not. There

(28:28):
are certain decisions we will not allow you to make
on your own because then you're just you're creating instability
by leaving. So but the idea is these guys are
you know, These the guys hiring you to be the
guys who are your bosses. And the other side of
that is Michigan State is still even if it's a
dumpster fire right now, a top thirty job in college football.

(28:51):
There just aren't that many of them. It's in one
of the two leagues as the most resources and the
most going for it. It's a place where it has
one in the last decade, like you can do it
and it's just not that awful. A job if you
get the right person and you get the right energy
and you get people moving in the right direction. Can

(29:12):
be a prickly place. It can be a tricky spot,
but it's not an necessarily awful job. And I think
people see that, and I think there aren't that many
of these jobs out there, so they will be able
to get somebody good. It'll be identifying the right person.
And I wish I could say that I thought another
year Jonathan Smith, and Jonathan Smith could still be that guy,
because I don't think he's necessarily a bad coach. But

(29:33):
when people are this out on you a fan base,
the most reasonable fan I mean, there are exceptions. We
may have a few hot takes from our listeners. To day,
I get emails all the time from people think this
guy is not deserves more time. I just ran into
a guy getting coffee twenty minutes for the show who
thought Jonathan Smith deserved another year.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Why didn't you bring him in here? I thought about it. Yeah,
I gotta hear that shit in person. Yeah, so that
we can shame him and kick him out of here. Yeah,
so let's talking about this is not one way. Did
he give any reasoning why, like, why would you want
Jonathan Smith? Bagneck?

Speaker 4 (30:08):
Well, he thought the resources that you to take the fire,
it's that comments. The resources it takes to fire somebody
would be better spent on supporting him and that you
know he hasn't enough time, and those are those are
valid points if Michigan State could generate the resources. I
just think when you talk about a fan base and
donor base that doesn't seem enthusiastic. That's what you need

(30:28):
right now. You need enthusiasm, and you need somebody who
can generate enthusiasm. And selling yourself and selling your program
to your own community is part of the job now,
it really is, and it's always been a little part
of the job, but it's a bigger part of the
job than ever. And you got to get somebody can
do that, or you have to come in and win. Yeah,
because you don't have to do that.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
If you come in and win eleven games, you don't
have to go to kiss babies and shake hands and
all that bullshit you don't want to do, but you
have to win games.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
Kurtzignetty didn't get a job until he was in his
sixties at a place like Indiana, and then it was
only Indiana. Like, think about that. Indiana now is a
good football program, but think about getting the Indiana job.
Because he was viewed as kind of a prick that
was part of the problem he had, and he is
kind of a prick. I'm not saying he's not nice
to his family. I'm not saying he's good, but he

(31:14):
comes across a certain way and I think he can
be that Bilick Saban was such a nice guy. Yeah again, right,
some of this. There are ways to win. And I'm
not saying Jonathan Smith. The Jonathan Smith away can't work.
It just hasn't worked at MSU, and it's very hard
to see a path forward. And I you know again,
I just I think it's a matter of time at
this point. Do you have another take?

Speaker 1 (31:36):
I don't, but please tell me that Tom Izzo is
going to cover five and a half tomorrow Madison Square Garden,
I don't know, and win this game. I don't know that.
Come on, Tom.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
Kentucky's would eat it without their point guard. They had
one real bad defensive performance, I thought against Louisville, who
looks really good, and it was on the road, and
they've got a load of talent, very expensive roster. But
I to think I think I picked the Michigan State
to lose by seven. I think it'll be a competitive game.
I just think Kentucky's got a little more than they
do right now, and I think this will be a

(32:07):
little tougher deal than than Arkansas on and MS. She's
gonna have to figure out that two guard position before
they can win a game like this coach, I do
want to say, give one more take on Michigan State
basketball and the happier.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Bull in a China closet.

Speaker 4 (32:23):
So is Olanz's best recruiting class in twenty sixteen the
urinal a portal and he does it in an era
where it costs money to land recruits. Right My understanding
is he was not the highest bidder for these guys.
They were in the ballpark. There wasn't like these guys
are not poor right there, but something was pointed out
to me sort of conversations with him and other people there.

(32:46):
I don't think Michigan State basketball, with freshmen especially should
ever be the highest bidder. Should ever want to be
the highest bidder. They wind up being the highest bidder,
that's fine, but should ever, like in make it about money,
because if you're trying to keep a guy for four
years or three years or two however long their college

(33:08):
career is going to be, and you don't want them
in the transfer portal in an age where they can
transfer all the time, their initial decision can't be about finances.
If their initial thing is how much money hanging can
I get right away, then every year it's going to
be about trying to keep them based on a finance.
You know, somebody's going to come in like to me,
you want to be in the ballpark, and then you
want everything else.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
To work for you.

Speaker 4 (33:27):
And I think that's the one advantage I'm as she
really has right now is they have Tom Izzo. Most
people don't have this sort of you know, last of
the Mohicans, legend type person that still working his ass off.
And I think that that is I mean, it's a
great place to be where you don't have to be
the highest bidder because you've got other things working for you.
But I think they also shouldn't want to be the

(33:48):
highest bidder with freshmen, and they weren't in this situation. Again,
these guys, they weren't. They weren't cheap on them. I
think they made it. You know, they lost. That was
a Darius Adams. They lost to Maryland. I think the
financial difference between what they were willing to pay over
the summer for him was significant, But I think that
was a decision they made and maybe one that bites him.
But I think in this case, they're playing in the

(34:11):
same sandbox. But I just think that's an important thing.
And Izzo, when he was asked about recruiting high school
kids versus transfers, he said something that was important. He said,
I still have to enjoy my job. This is whether
this works or not will be interesting, because if he
is able to keep culture and guys who stay year
over year, and you have enough veterans who've been around

(34:32):
these high school kid comes in, high school kids come in,
and you're not relying on them to be you know,
the way you were relying on that twenty sixteen class initially,
then this can work. But for him not recruiting the
high school rings, replacing your roster constantly with just transfers,
he has no interest in it, And so I think

(34:52):
people have to just and I think people are okay
with that too, I think, but that's going to have
to be the way it is for him to enjoy
his job at a certain level. And you know, I
don't I don't think that's I don't think that's necessarily
a bad thing.

Speaker 1 (35:04):
So is it the time is a difference? Is that
what you're claiming that between if Maryland's offering more money
in Michigan State's offering a little bit lower, but you're
getting the time. Is a experience, right, it's not just
the experience, it's the proven track record. It's it's playing
for it. Is there like a deal with a car
dealership we don't know about and you get like a Lamborghini.

Speaker 4 (35:21):
I don't think that's it. I think it's playing. I
think there's a certain amount of money where if you
know so say and I don't. I do not have
the figures on these kids, So I'm just I'm just ballparking.
But but say somebody offered and you do. These guys
do cost less than transfers to some degree, which is
another reason to to go this route. But say you
know Ethan Taylor and I'm not sure what he got
was being offered, Uh, you know, one point five million

(35:44):
from somebody. Wow, I'm not saying that's right. Oh Okay,
in Michigan State's offering you know, one point two or
a million dollars, it's still really good money. And if
you're and that's enough money that if you're a guy
like that, and you have the right parents, in the
right background and all that. You're thinking, that's a lot
of money. That's more money than I have now, and
I'm looking to go to the place it's best for

(36:05):
me and develop over time and not go to a
place that may have instability. That's just trying to you know,
there may be programs that offer the most, like Kentucky,
that have a really good situation that's got stability. I'm
not saying it's not always a situation where you can
wind up in a great spot and have the most money.
I'm just saying, if you're Michigan State, that shouldn't be

(36:26):
your worry, and I don't think it should be something
you aspire to be because ultimately, the reason you want
those kids to choose you in this day and age,
to try to keep them year over year should be
a little something more than just the most money. If
it's just the most money, you're not probably going to
keep that kid long term, and it's going to be
wind up being a situation where you lose a Trey Holloman.

(36:48):
And I'm not saying Trey Holloman was only leaving for that,
but what I mean is you lose a kid that
you don't expect to lose and it hurts you the
next year, and that's what you're trying to avoid as
you build year over year. You're ready to dig into
these listener really quick. Well, I just have a question.
It's really not a take. Last night I was watching,
you know, the coach interviews, and by the way, I
think Melissa's Stark's great. She's been doing it since the

(37:09):
early two thousands, right, so it's not really against her.
But let me ask you this. Let's say they all
of a sudden stopped doing the coach interviews out of halftime,
out of the quarters and everything. How long would it
take before some person was like, man, I really miss
those coach interviews out of the halftime and out of
the first and third quarter. Anyone at least would anyone care?
They are the worst interviews and the coaches hate doing them.

(37:31):
You don't get anything out of them. I feel bad
for almost for the sideline person for having to try
to you know, it's.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Like, oh, you only scored six points Dan in the
first half. Out do you build off that? You don't? Fuck?
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (37:43):
I'm always amazed by it. Is there are kids that's
going through school right now whose goal is to be
a sideline reporter. Like, what's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
I watched local news, and I watched these young people
like on local news. I'm like, I cannot believe young
people still want to be on local news. I'm sure
it's a stepping stone. I want to stay Channel six forever, right,
but it just fascinates me that young people want to
do it still.

Speaker 4 (38:04):
Yeah, and some of the I mean, I've done enough
television stuff even in college, in terms of the process
that they go through to enjoy or to understand what
some of the enjoyment out of it, Like I understand
it's not always just about hey, I'm on TV. Like
some of the actual process of putting together a news
package and going out and covering and talking to people

(38:25):
and doing that on camera. It's a lot of fun.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
I'm not well, it used to be when you have
when you were a reporter, you had a camera person,
you were making an actual livable wage. Now I can't
imagine you got to do everything by yourself and there's
like not even a livable wage you made.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Me.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
Once you start to move up in TV, you make
pretty good money, even down in Detroit, I mean down
to Detroit, like reporters would make six figures. Now.

Speaker 4 (38:44):
I don't know what they'll make it, but I mean
it's TV money. Is still TV money. It's still a
good TV. But yeah, no, you're you're right. I don't
you know how long it would take as long as
it took for somebody to mention that we weren't doing
the Couch and the rou Pickham Contest, which is like
eight weeks some of the season. Nobody miss there you go, see,
nobody missed it. See it works for our show. Why
can't we do it?

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Hey?

Speaker 4 (39:03):
No, no, nobody, nobody missed it. By the way, what
was the most entertaining thing you saw this weekend that
wasn't depressing?

Speaker 1 (39:09):
What would you say? Oh? My god? Oh man, I
don't think everything was depressing. Everything was depressed. I watched
the state game. That was depressing. I had to watch
the Bears win and then t dance around the fucking
living room. Oh that was depressing. That is depressed. And
then uh yeah, fuck Ben Johnson, Yeah dude, nothing happened

(39:32):
great though. What happened this weekend? The Michigan state thing?
You know, Well, so here's here's a vacated wins. Here's
a pitch for the erase those out of my brain.
Here's a pitch for Infinity. If you're going to be
depressed watching a full Sunday and Saturday of football, you
might as well do it at less cost. Right, if
you're getting your if you're just getting you know, a
bite out of your wallet completely, if you're paying sixteen

(39:54):
streaming services and and it's still depressing, if you're paying
to be depressed, that's not where If you're going to
be depressed anyway, do it at a reasonable price. Go
to Infinity dot com. Check out their one year lowest price,
which is forty dollars a month. For example, for for
for home internet, you can get a five year deal
for fifty five dollars a month. Pretty good deal. And

(40:14):
if you bundle that with TELEVI with TV with cable,
I should say with TV with cable and and mobile
you can get even even better deals. There's some great
some great offers and look you can save over thirty percent.
Also on YouTube TV when you get Infinity Sports and
News TV. You can see all these plans are there.

(40:35):
Go to Infinity dot com. You can see it.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
You can get the you can get the multi view
when you're watching sports again Infinity dot Com. Type in
your address. The offers are all there for your chances
are you can you can save some money, turn back
the clock and go to a bundling with cable.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
I was gonna mention that I did watch the Eddie
Murphy documentary, which was great. That was the only good
thing I watched over the weekend. But it was not
It was not on Infinity or anything. It was on Netflix,
but it was a I will have to watch that.
I love it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So in his eighty
million dollar house. It's just wild how rich people live.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
I ran into a reel which sometimes happens when you're
just scrolling, and it was.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
It was on Instagram. That's why I like, I can't
look at Instagram while I'm on the toilet because my
legs fall asleep and I end up getting just sucked in.
That's why I had to get like, there was no
way I was doing TikTok. Instagram sucks me.

Speaker 4 (41:22):
It was like I think it was an sn L
skid or was this kid where he's there, he's hosting Christmas,
He's you know, yeah, he's hosting, and Maya rudolph'sin and
I think they're the they're the uh, the family hosting
Christmas with all the family. It's funny because it's all
the it's what they're saying publicly at the Christmas table
or Thanksgiving table, and that's what they're you know. And
then they show the scenes, you know, behind the scenes,
like you know.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
In all of his movies. All of his movies are
on Netflix now too, I think, is okay all of
those things?

Speaker 4 (41:47):
So yeah, yeah, no, No, Eddie Murphy's Eddie Murphy's the
the absolute, uh, one of the best going all the
way back. One of the first shows that I shouldn't
have watched that I watched was Eddie Murphy.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Raw the only guy to hang out with Rick James
in the eighties and not do drug. Apparently, there you go,
he said he didn't when those people came in he left.
I'm like, how is that.

Speaker 4 (42:05):
Poss like the Michael Jordan of comedy. Wow, that's that's amazing.
All right, let's dig into these these taps, all right.
Spartan eighteen seven seven zero. First number one, we suspend
we suspended players in the tunnel incident when we didn't
have to to. We glad gladly accepted a chat GPT
written apology from CMU three. We helped the NCAA formulate
restrictions on this program. Jonathan Smith is the perfect fit

(42:30):
for MSU hashtag one more year? Is that who you
ran into?

Speaker 1 (42:34):
John? No?

Speaker 4 (42:36):
No, no, I no. I think there's some sarcasm here. Yeah,
look it, yeah, I again. The kindly f off would
be the way I would play this right now. I
would at least have that approach if I work. It's
so weird to see you like flabbergasted, like reading your stuff.
It's like you don't know what to say anymore, Like

(42:58):
it's terrible, that's all you can pretty much say. Like
how can you even like sugarcoat it? If you can't
sugarcoat it? My god, we're screwed.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
The Madam thin India deer close thin deer lame is
character yepes of Southern main Next if leadership at Michigan
State will allow themselves to be humiliated nationally by accepting
this punishment to potentially save money on the Tucker lawsuit,
they will most definitely keep Smith as head coach to
avoid paying his buyout cook the word most commonly associated

(43:29):
with MSU.

Speaker 4 (43:30):
No, it's it's a great master of the house, great
song and lamis is sort of their big feature. Do
you need some hof to look up cock? No, I'm
not looking that up. No, we're we're we're good there the.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Look.

Speaker 4 (43:45):
Yeah, I don't think. I mean, I get what you're saying,
because Michigan State, when it comes to saving money and
fighting for money has been that is an area they
do very well, and they do very intensely, and not
all if I thought it would been for the best.
I mean, there were some stuff going back to the
you know, uh NASA Survivors, you know that that whole

(44:08):
that was that was a little messy that that I
didn't love what MSU was doing. Sorry I didn't. We'll
fix that name post. I don't want to put that
name in any of this stuff. I apologize to take
take that out and post the N word the end. Yeah,
the different N word, the uh the m s U
N word. But I do think this will be interesting

(44:29):
because this is for for j Batt, like this is
his first like if he were not to make a
move on Jonathan Smith, essentially he's hiring Jonathan Smith. If
that makes any sense. You know, this is his first
real decision decision points It's obvious. And if you decide
to extend somebody, you are attaching that year to you
a little bit, right, And that is that is interesting,

(44:49):
and that is why I don't think it's gonna happen.
Like I have a lot of weaknesses in this world,
but one of the things I tend to get right
on these situations is sort of putting my myself and
another person shoes and trying to think about all the
ways that they could go based on the situation. And
I I cannot picture away and if I'm wrong, then

(45:13):
I'll be wrong. But I cannot picture away that Jay
Batt would explain another year in a way that would
be satisfactory to him. And that's that's and and again
we're seeing that now with you know, Luke, Fickele and
Locksley at Maryland and this this sort of meek will
will put resources in and and you know, and I

(45:35):
don't know all the behind the scenes in terms of
where everybody is with those coaches. I mean, I see
what's on Twitter, and there are a lot of a
lot of frustration and I don't know how different it is,
but you know, you want to be different here and
if I just I uh yeah, I don't see it happening.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Kurt was Newski MSU football. Let the Leo Hennan experience begin,
so he would be the tell the people who Leo
Hannon is.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
Yeah, he would be the starting quarterback this week if
if Alessio's transferred couldn't go and Aidan Chiles can't go, well,
Jonathan Smith said something interesting in his press conference. He
just said he's mid season healthy. They didn't practice, they
never practice on Mondays, they didn't practice week on Sunday,
getting late in the season, and so they'll you know,

(46:21):
we're taking some body blows right now. That would not
be good at Iowa. Iowa is not the defense to say,
hey Leo, here you go man like I to. You know,
Iowa is not a team you generally want to tell
people they're going to cover a sixteen and a half
point spread. Just generally in life, Iowa sixteen and a
half is something to stay the hell away from.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
That's when Leo should pull the Grahame Couch. I'm feeling
under the weather. Oh no, coach, all under the weather.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
But I have Leo as starting I would, and I
would not bet it, of course myself, but I would
advise people that you may be able to mortgage your
mother's house. And that's no knock on Leo. I'm just saying,
any true freshman making their first start should not be
against this IOWA defense in this team, all.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Right, Fostian eighty. Next, Fans sick and tired of the
state of MSU's football program should direct their anger at
MSU's administration and it's billionaire class. The past two years
have shown that the administration and the power broker alumni
have not been behind Jonathan Smith and have not been
pulling in the same direction. Smith and company have been subpar,

(47:17):
but it's also clear we don't have the talent to
compete in the top third of the Big ten.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
Yeah, I mean this is a Smith is the guy
who loses his job because he's the coach, right, That'll
be that. And you can't, despite many efforts, you can't
fire the trustees.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
You can't. And I'm not saying the trustees of the
problem here.

Speaker 4 (47:35):
You can't. You're not going to fire your donors right there.
That's just a lifetime appointment, so to speak, and you
need them. But it is true that it has not been.
You know, coaches will tell you the real key to
having success is having everybody pulling in the same direction
from the top down. That is essential, and Jonathan Smith

(47:56):
has not had that. And so at some point when
and if they make a move, that era is behind
you and you have to look at yourself and you
have to make sure the next coach has it better
and is a fan base, is an alumni base, is
a donor base, is an administration. You got to pour
everything into that coach and give them every opportunity because
you can't keep doing this shit. You really can't. You

(48:19):
can't two years from now be back in this spot.
The next coach gets longer than two years, even if
they lose seven straight, like this can't be the thing.
And I think increasingly if the next coach loses seven straight,
the problem will be around the coach and not the coach,
like the talent level.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
Now.

Speaker 4 (48:36):
The reason that that Jonathan Smith is not getting a
pass for some of this stuff is it hasn't always
looked like Penn State. The Penn State game well maybe
depressing and demralizing for some people. Very clear that Michigan
State was did not have the same talent as Penn State.
You can deal with that sort of defeat a Michigan game,
same thing. It's Minnesota who sucks, it's Nebraska who's awful.

(49:01):
It's Ucla who hasn't done much since that game in
East Lansing. Those are the three games. And if Jonathan
Smith wins two of those games, say they lose the Nebraska,
but then they turn around and beat Ucla and it
was a really pivotal game in terms of conversation. And
then they beat Minnesota, and rather than being three and
seven right now, they are five and five with a

(49:26):
pretty good chance of beating Maryland at least to get
to a bowl game. And they've got a couple of
big ten wins. This discussion is not happening. There might
be a lot of frustrated people like he's not the answer. Still,
that would be fine to have that frustration. Everybody's entitled
to that, but he would not be They would not
be making a move right now. It's those two wins,
and those sort of games were in the control of

(49:48):
this program. This program was capable of winning those games.
We are just not seeing this program look good in
games they're capable of looking good. He this goes back
to Purdue the win, the last time they won a
game the Big Ten was Purdue last year and the
way that second half looked, and then Rutgers and then
and obviously Boston College just had a awful year. But

(50:09):
you know that that wind looked less and less impressive.
You know over time, and it's just week by week.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
Man, Hello, Brian uh madro if Chris Solari getting dressed
down by Tom Izzo at the press conference was not
one of your favorite moments of the week. You are
not a true couch the roof fan.

Speaker 4 (50:28):
I will, I will, I will, So anyway, that was wild.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
I didn't see so I missed Thursday night game. Thursday
night's game.

Speaker 4 (50:40):
I just wrote quick takes fromme because I wudn't feel well,
but the uh I did. I've seen Salari dressed down
a lot by his overtime because it tends to happen
for a couple of reasons.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
This is, you don't coach my team, and that's like
the ultimate. That's a number one seed.

Speaker 4 (50:54):
Right, and sometimes you want that because it creates great
I used to cover Steve Hawkins at Western Michigan, and
I was like one of it was like me and
a radio guy in the student media. A lot, you know,
maybe the Battle Creak inquirer would be there. Cut not
a lot of us in the post game, so I
would ask, you know, eighty percent of the questions. And
there were times I went in there knowing what buttons
to push to get a response. That would be a

(51:17):
great quote, that would piss him off and he wouldn't know, you.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Know, couch the button pusher. Button. People love button pushers. Yeah,
why not?

Speaker 4 (51:23):
Yeah, I look forward to those people showing up. That's
not why Slari gets stressed down, though. Solari gets stressed
down for two reasons. One, he likes to ask an
early question before Izzo's done getting off his chest what
he wants to get off his chest. And that's the
thing you have to understand about, is, oh what, until
he's done saying what he wants to say, don't ask
a question because he's not even gonna answer your question.
He's just gonna keep talking about the other stuff. And

(51:44):
so you gotta you gotta wait long enough to do that.
And then you gotta understand what kind of mood he's in.
If he's in a contrarian mood. Then you gotta you
gotta play chess here. You got to ask something the
opposite of what you're thinking, because then he'll do the opposite.
But Solari, you know it's sometimes the just trying to
talk ball. I didn't he needed all of these like
insight things.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
It's amazing.

Speaker 4 (52:03):
And Lario sometimes the phrasing of his questions, the framing
of them, I should say, leads Izzo to is it lends,
it lends itself to this happened and the other thing
that happens. His is really good with Like a student reporter,
a student reporter asked the same question that Slario or
I asked.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Great question, great question.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
Yeah, if I Slari asks it, it's like you dumb
shit like that's it's just and I respect this.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
What am I supposed to hug them? Love them? Yeah?
It was the best, Ah Spartholomy. Next, Lions are at
best the sixth and or seventh best team in the NFC.
Just fast forward to the wild card weekend. If we're
even there, And bonus, MSU's coaching staff should hand out
even more impermissible benefits to millionaire what Millie v oh

(52:48):
Millie V for continuing to send him out to die
in a game that was out of reach Millie V.

Speaker 4 (52:55):
We'll see if that stays, if Alessio comes back to
Michigan's and winds up being the starting quarterback for any
length of time, I do think Milliev has a chance.
It's a good it's a good h it's a good
nickname six or seventh best team the Lions in the NFC. No,
I'm not ready to give up after that game last night.
I'm not just willing to give up. I mean, obviously,

(53:16):
if you know that season ended today, bs, what have
you be in the playoffs?

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Of course? But I got to see this play out
further before I just go windows closed. We're done. I'm
out packing up my Lions ship. Let me go through,
Let me go through some teams. Eagles. Are the Eagles
better than the Lions right now? I mean right now? Sure? Okay? Yeah?
Are the Packers No? Are the Bears no? The Bucks? No?
The Rams? Yes, the Seahawks? Sam Donald? No? Maybe? Okay,

(53:44):
so so Sam Donald? Does? Sam Donald? So right now?
You have the Lions third? Yeah? And and I don't
think you can say the Lions are any worse than fifth.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
Really like you if you wanted to debate the Packers,
who don't look very good either, and maybe the but.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
They're dealing with injuries too. Yeah, Malik Willis at quarterback.
I mean yeah, so although he won three games last year,
I was told I would go a little further. I would.

Speaker 4 (54:09):
I would put the Seahawks head of the Lions despite
Sam Donald, because I don't think that I don't trust
golf any more than Donald right now.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
That's the problem. But we saw Donald last year. Everybody
was blowing Donald last year. Then he got to the
wild card and was like, oh ah, there's Sam Donald. Yeah,
he does the same thing this year, and he's like, anyway,
Ben Chulick next, This isn't the same offense as Pad
the past few years. Campbell and US fans have to
recognize this. Our offense hummed beautifully because we had an

(54:35):
elite offensive line without rag Now and Zeitler. It's above
average at best. I don't know how Brad Holmes addresses
this moving forward. In bonus, Pistons might regret not finding
a middle ground when negotiating an extension with Jalen Duran.
He looks on pace for a max deal.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
So these are really good from Ben These are the
either Thexfinity Hot Take of the day or the Muskox
Take of the day, wherever you want to go with that.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
By the way, the h but we knew that when
Ragnow retired, we knew that this wasn't going to be
the same offensive line. We weren't. We were trying to
convince ourselves that we could somehow patch this shit together.
But I don't think we were trying to say, like, oh,
this is definitely going to be the same as last year.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
But when you talk about addressing and moving forward, I
do think this draft is this offseason. You've got to
make sure you're better.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
My first three picks would be offensive lineman yeah I
swear togather, or defensive lineman. Offensive. I don't want to
see a wide receiver, tight end. I don't want to
see any of that.

Speaker 4 (55:29):
Quarterback, nobody. There's a great court. Nobody under two hundred
and eighty pounds, right, That's that's the rule. I want offensive.
I want the best fucking offensive line, not including me
the uh to eighty no below to me, I'm just
at one point, what's the heaviest you've ever been in
your life?

Speaker 1 (55:43):
To sixty? I can only get up to two. I mean,
because that way is a panic button. When I've been
up to two sixty. What do you think my heaviest
weight was ever? I think you've told me. Wasn't it
like uh three or five? Or no?

Speaker 4 (55:54):
No, I got thy I got to to eighty four.
And then the worst thing is when you have a
picture from then Okay, yes, this is the worst. That
might have been a good one for the Musko's flannel.
It's on my mother's fridge, is the worst one. But
you got to take a picture, so it's it's sat
on Twitter. We're in the backyard of the house we
used to rent over the east side of Lansing and

(56:16):
where it was like a day where oh so you
were in your twenties then No, no, this was this
was I don't know if we were doing the show yet.
Probably not. No, we weren't doing the show yet, but it's.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
Just before that.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
This is like thirty six, thirty seven. It was post
Rose Bull. You know, actually I can't.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
It's okay, we believe it. Yeah, no it was. I can't.

Speaker 4 (56:35):
I think it was pre marriage because I lost a
lot of weight. I don't anyway, it was not a
good moment. But anyway, her parents are over, My parents
are over. We're playing like cornhole in the backyard, and
my sister's kind of the anyway, there's this photo of
me in the it's just like you're out of breath.
Oh no, just the the just the the the man
boob showing through the shirt like I'd really badly need

(56:57):
a muscot planet. By the way, if you have man boobs,
We've talked about this. If you're a big guy, you're
not sure about your physic c cup top, Muscock's fine,
will take care of that. Go Muskox dot com peacock
for fifteen dollars off your muscog flirt purchased lots of
great new offerings there too. I'm telling you it's it's
They will take care of that. But so, yeah, it's
a bad picture and it's just on my bomb's fridge,

(57:17):
and every time I see you, I'm like, oh god,
your mom did that on purpose eighty four. And then
the worst one was that same year I was up
there for a little bit. I'd put on a ton
of weight at once. This is before we were married,
and what are you just hammering food or yeah, I
don't know what happened. Susie Merchant hadn't seen me in
a while, and I went out on the court after

(57:38):
a game to talk to her and she looked her
look her turn to look at me was like wolf.
You know, like when when Kevin McAllister sees his buzz's
girlfriend and home alone. Like it was like she looked
at me and this her eyes. I popped and I
knew exactly what it was. And she was like whoa.
And it was just awful. It was, you know, I

(58:01):
was just so fat and and look look we all
like it's and here's the problem with it is people
remember I mean, I remember when I got to two sixty.

Speaker 1 (58:10):
How I got there. I was eating very very poorly.
I was eating chili and cheese every night.

Speaker 4 (58:15):
I think Elizabeth was living in Chicago mostly, I believe,
and I was, you know, at home, left to my
own dietary devices, and it just it just bloomed on
me and it got away from me, and it yeah,
just anyway, that's.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
So, yeah, it was. It was. It was not But
what would you hammer though, like what kind of food
it was just eating? It was? It was it was
food or like would you just go would you just
go to like a Rallies or something and just get
like a like four burgers and hammer it. Or I
think there was a lot of like a lot of
like delis at restaurants or sorry, delies at supermarket type
stuff you stop on the way home and I'm gonna

(58:52):
get I'm gonna go to Apple Market on the way
home and eat, you know, and I'm gonna get lunch
there and drop twelve hundred calories there and then I'm
gonna have a pizza to night. You know. That's the
next level of fat, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:01):
Yeah, And a lot of people carry weight well, like
I'm not not like I would love to be somebody
who could be to eighty three hundred pounds and carry it. Well,
there are lots of people will do and uh and
I must go So you don't care about living then, No,
I'm just saying I'm just not trying to fat shame anybody.
I'm just saying I'm fad shaming people. But there's no
way if I was three hundred, I could live a long,
fun life. If I could grow a beard, believe me,
I would, you know, maybe try to get up to

(59:22):
two fifty five or something again and have more fun.
It's just it goes right to my fat head.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
That's the problem. Favorite. I'll go see yeah shin and
that's just you know, you get titties. It's just like
I don't want to be that guy. So yeah, you know,
my wife didn't sign up for this. I gotta at
least stay somewhat in shape for my wife forgets.

Speaker 4 (59:38):
And I look at that, and I realized that in
some of the pictures I see with my wife that
she was still happy with me, or say said she was.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
But I don't know. I don't know, and we weren't
married yet with I don't know. I've seen pictures and
I look at you, I'm like, what the fuck? Especially
during the COVID time when I tried doing the beard thing,
I was like, how did you not tell me to
shave that?

Speaker 5 (59:55):
Like?

Speaker 1 (59:55):
How are you still with me?

Speaker 4 (59:56):
That is a story we're telling, presented by our friends
at Midtown Brewing Company and down Town Lancing, where they
do have all sorts of stuff on the menu, so
if you are worried about looking like me, you can
much you know, lighter salad offerings, great sandwiches, things that
won't make you look like They also have comfort food, though,
if you're somebody who has disciplined unlike me, just a
great The chef there does an amazing job to vibe.
There is great, great date night, great place for a

(01:00:19):
beer after work. And the last time I was there
really recently, one of the things I loved is just
it wasn't packed, but like the bar was full of
people in good conversations.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
It was like a five thirty six PM just like
like a great place to hang. That's Midtown Brewing Company
in Downtown Lands.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
By the way. The Susie Merchant story is definitely a
story worth telling. God, it's amazing. I don't blame her
because I know she probably wasn't trying. She's probably trying
to hide it, you know. But and I you know,
she'd probably see something so scary.

Speaker 4 (01:00:46):
It's like, yeah, she'd probably seen me at like two.
She probably went from seeing me at like two thirty
eight to like two eighty four or two seventies something
and just went, what my face is probably sweaty.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
It's it's awful. I just love that your mom has
that picture, a picture that you just despise. Some mothers love, right,
They just don't. They don't even see it. We need
to see it, uh Paz. This Pistons team is all grit,
no quit, a roster full of dogs, completely turn around
from the Monty years. Bicker Staff should get way more
praise for the culture he's instilled, and some love for

(01:01:22):
Tom Gorris too, Yeah for you know, I mean he
is a penis, but like the guy paid Many Williams
to go away, willing to correct a mistake. And this
goes back to taunt of the media.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
To Ben Chulick's point, this is one thing I didn't
we didn't get into that I thought was really good
was the jail and Duran question. Though I do think
one of the things I hate about the NBA's current
system right now with this, you know, the Apron's first Apron,
second April, basically a hard cap is you can really
only pay two guys elite elite money, and you're gonna
pay Kate Cage's an elite player and Duran is looking

(01:01:54):
like like we had James Edwards on a year ago
we were talking about Durhams all. He talked about that
you probably don't pay Duran just because you can find
those type of rim running bigs, and he wasn't good
enough defensively, and though those guys, you know, you're not
going to spend your money on him. I think he
almost have to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
The problem is in the NBA today and people need
to understand this is different than the EVE in the NFL,
where you can somehow win with Jared Goff making fifty
five million. You get two guys, and I know, technically,
Okay Sees managed to do it with three and guys around,
so maybe you can get the three, but that's it.
So if you can't win a championship with Cad and
Duran as your top two, you have to really look

(01:02:36):
hard and how you structure that. Like that's what sucks.
It's really hard to build an NBA team and sustaining
over time. It's just awful to me. I wish the
system was set up so if you drafted somebody you
could you know, it would work differently against the cap
because they ought to try to keep teams together and
you ought to be rewarded for that. And I'm not
saying there's not a financial way to do it. I
think they should pay him at this point. I'm just

(01:02:58):
saying he has to be really good. It's the Jared
golf thing, Jalen, if you get this money, you have
to be a number two on a championship team. That's
the thing he's got to understand.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
And the Pistons are officially must watch now, right, Oh right,
they're fun to watch well, and the you know, the
NBA still sucks. But you know they play you.

Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
Know, Indiana tonight and this is Monday, obviously, and they
had a couple days off, so I think Kate will
be back. But like, they played a game the other
day without Caden Duran in one. Like that's that's culture stuff.
That's having good stuff going.

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
Matt ce number one. Brad Holmes failed this offseason. No
help for Hutch, no replacement for rag now, but hey,
we traded up for a receiver and have forty million
in cap space. Wasted year too. Howie Roseman is the
smartest man in football. Brad Holmes just thinks he is.
That's why the Eagles win super Bowls and the Lions
management is happy just to make the playoffs. I don't

(01:03:48):
know if they're happy to I mean, yeah, you why
wouldn't you be happy to make the playoffs? Matt see,
I understand what you're saying. I think there's a desperation
to win a super Bowl at this group. I don't know,
but the way the Eagles and Howie Roseman have been it,
it's worked. It does work. You want one super Bowl?
If you ask any Lions fan, like one super Bowl
and then that's it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:05):
You go up, all right, okay. And it's not like
it'd be one thing if if the Eagles had the
Josh Allen type or or the Matt Stafford or whoever,
or mahomes what. They also have a limited, flawed quarterback
who's making a lot of money and they've still been
able to do it around there. So that's that's it.
It's almost and I A'm saying there different carus.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
And in the NFL, you can take a risk, like
we've talked about and get rid of these guys. If
they come in and they're a problem, a cancer in
the locker room, you can kick them to the curb
without you know, a very little cap hit. So why
not bring some of these guys in. It's just I
think Dan Campbell and Brad Holmes are just these our guys,
our guy, and I get that it's awesome to watch
the team. I mean, Jack Campbell By the way, I
didn't mention Jack Campbell. He just seems like he's at

(01:04:46):
another level this year. I'm happy with Jack Campbell, but
shout out defense anyway, Ryan Schultz next, I get that
with competent coaching, we should reasonably expect a seven to
five floor from MSU, and I so SMU. But and
I'd be grateful to get that for a couple of
years maybe, But ultimately this is about competing for championships

(01:05:09):
and that is never happening at MSU unless the top
donors sholl out millions to bring in top players on
the line of scrimmage, unless the way the sport is
run changes dramatically, that is the only way it happens.
You're not bringing guys in off the momentum or reputation
anytime soon. You got to believe the likes of Texas
A and M or Texas Tech and Bonus, we are

(01:05:29):
allowed to demand better than this during the so called
Super Bowl window when you stand pat at the trade deadline.

Speaker 4 (01:05:35):
I think that's fair. You open yourself up for this
criticism when you don't make the move. And because if
you may happen to have Scott Harrison, Brad Holmes who
don't like to do any of that. Yeah, if you
make the move and you have injuries or it doesn't work,
people can deal with it. It's when it doesn't seem
like you're willing to get creative to maximize and there
just hasn't been a great explanation for I have we've
seen an interview with homes since then or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Have you seen one? I don't think. I think he
goes on ninety seven to one maybe once a season.
I think that's right. That's not to the first part.

Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
Like, you're right, you do have to prioritize and roster build.
I do think one of the things, offensively, I think
it can be done a little different. Offensive linemen can
be built through development. Like you look at the best
offensive lineman Michigan State's ever had. We talked about this
is Jack Allen. You look at some of the other
that you don't You can build a great offensive line

(01:06:25):
without having five star guys because linemen are so often
late developers. Guys you think are great in high school
aren't great guys you are, you know, And I'm not
saying Ohio State doesn't have a good line by recruiting
top Linemen. I'm just saying the offensive line is a
little different. You need to develop and retain and retain,
spend or retain. But on defense, on the defensive front,

(01:06:48):
it's probably a little different and you are gonna need
But I think those donors will be there if there's
an excitement around the program.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
I do.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
I think people will want to support something that has
a chance. And if they don't, don't then then pack
it up and have limitations and enjoy basketball, right, And
that's I think you want to push. You want to
find out what your limitations are. If your limitations are
something that is somehow debilitating, and that would would be
I mean, Jay bad is failing a sort of finding
other sources of revenue. Uh, then then you you have

(01:07:19):
that conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:07:19):
I don't think we're there yet. I think you've got
a situation now where and revenue is not just about donors.
It's about all sorts of corporate sponsorships and other things
like I mean, how long is Spartan Stadium Spartan Stadium.
It shouldn't be much longer. The longer Spartan Stadium is
Spartan Stadium. The longer Michigan state plays losing football, right,
I mean it can be this, you know Spartan Stadium,

(01:07:41):
so and so at Spartan Stadium, or it can be
but it's got to be something else. Like you've got
to start finding other revenue sources that help elevate everything
around the pro Let's go there.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
Three hundred million for twenty years. What do you think
it would take for me? Like, so, say you know
a billion you've got, I would name it porn up. Yeah. Yeah,
you have to be so much money. You just couldn't.
It'd have to be so much that you'd have to
give everybody two hundred thousand dollars to not complain about it. Yeah,
like Trump is gonna do with the tariffs, is.

Speaker 4 (01:08:15):
That gonna be enough? It would never happen. The problem
is the people in this country are kind of dumb
enough to believe it. Like the reason people voted, they write,
they wrote me a check, dude, George W. Or Bush
and the early two thousands, I bought weed with the
money he sent me. Remember there was like one hundred
bucks or two hundred back in the day, and there
wasn't it. I swear to god, one of those presidents.
I was so happy. I was like, dude, I would

(01:08:36):
have voted for him again right there.

Speaker 1 (01:08:38):
Yeah, that's no, it's it's a trick. I voted for Gore.
But I'm saying if you would have said, like, hey,
we're gonna end up giving you two hundred dollars, at
some point my presidency had going, oh shit, you know,
we're not a sophisticated there. I know. I shouldn't have
a vote, you know what I mean? Like, that's what
I've been trying to tell people. Thomas next. Shifting the
football season forward a week needs to happen starting next year.

(01:08:58):
Compared to tuning in for basketball or hockey, watching a
game by this time of the year feels more like
a chore than anything. Yeah, that game was a fucking grind.
Yeah that's the Penn State game. It was.

Speaker 4 (01:09:10):
And the funniest thing is there's a moment. So you
get the initial run by to Tolliver right, the long,
the long fifty seven yard touchdown run. You think, wait
a second, is Penn State not want to be here today?
Because that's what you And then as soon as Penn
State went down the other way and scored, I was like,
now this isn't going to be and Ebling actually had
the pulse of this pretty well. At halftime. We was

(01:09:31):
asking me what the score was, and he Ebling had
a pulse at halftime, he had a pulse half way
to see him still.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
He just said, I can't see Michigan State scoring, you
know again, or scoring another time. I mean, just you
sort of sort of got live bet scenario. Thanks Jack
for the info. Yeah, I know he should have. You
should have tweeted that out. And it was just about
to tweet that up share. By the way, what is
it going to be?

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
What?

Speaker 1 (01:09:50):
What about the crowd at the Maryland game?

Speaker 4 (01:09:52):
What are we talking about in Detroit? Yeah, it was
going well. It was good for the Pens if it
was good for the Penn State game two years ago
when they were had already fired their coach, they lost
forty eight. Nothing like, it wasn't bad that day. It
wasn't like it was a boisterous like it's indoors. It's
Thanksgiving weekend, like think about people are gonna have to
think think about the idea of like you've been with

(01:10:13):
your family for two days, right, Uncle Frank starting to
annoy you. Right, It's like, boy, we can go to
a game have a beer and watch them college football.
Or we can stay home and keep having this conversation
and work on this puzzle. That's elite spin and you
could probably get a ticket for like five dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
Or ten bucks or something.

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
Yeah, the house and plus it's it's you know it
may you could just say you want to go to
the mall. Maybe twelve degrees outside, but you can be
comfortable inside in the Muskox flannel. It's gonna be perfect. It's
gonna be perfect football indoor. Yeah, you look good, feel good,
all that jazz josh Inwood next.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Undoubtedly Brad Holmes has done a great job, but this
team clearly needed help and he made no moves at
the deadline. Also, is Tesla ever gonna see the field?
The Lions traded a twenty twenty five third round and
two twenty twenty six third round picks for this guy
when we needed interior help and he has a total
of four catches. It's one of them. It's a weird one. Yeah. Yeah,

(01:11:12):
I don't know how Holmes has to explain it. Like
I said, it's hard to judge these things currently as
it sits right, because you want to give a guy
a chance to kind of exceed expectations. But I can
understand as it sits right now, it looks like way overpaid.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
For this guy, and he's been good with certainly, Like
obviously Saint Brown is a fourth round pick, right, that
was a great get in, and you're not going to
hit on all those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
But you Gibs when everybody else was like, man, Gibbs
really that high? Why would you draft Gibbs that h
But you have Same Brown and you've paid him, and
you knew you were going to try and pay Jamo, right,
So you have those guys like I don't. And from
what everybody tells me, they knew rag Now there was
a high probability he was going to retire. Yeah, and
I mean like eighty percent. So you knew you had

(01:11:52):
to get some sort of interior help in a center
help or you know.

Speaker 4 (01:11:56):
If you're looking for good news, it's this Philadelphia, Uh,
the Rams, Seattle. These guys aren't planning to rest their defense, right,
They're gonna keep playing. All those fuckers are gonna be
hurt by the playoffs. There's no way you're healthy, Like
if those guys want to have this, If I'm Philadelphia,
right now, you're gonna win your division if you're not

(01:12:17):
gonna be the one seed, I am. I am sitting
down some guys, because there's just no way that whole
group's gonna be healthy in like seven weeks. That is,
that's if you're if you're the Lions, it's somebody else
has turned out.

Speaker 1 (01:12:29):
How much more banged up are the Lions gonna be?

Speaker 4 (01:12:31):
Well, that's the problem. They're gonna have to play through
just to make the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (01:12:33):
So right, Alex mayor next number one. If the only
way to the top donors that are going to help
fund the football team is to have their egos stroked,
Jay Batt should just let them one hundred percent, negotiate
with and hire the next coach. This new era of
college sports is ass to seventy five percent of the
NIL money should be spent on the offensive and defensive lines,

(01:12:54):
and one hundred milligram take ms will actually play well
at MSG this year.

Speaker 4 (01:13:00):
Well, they didn't play great, but they beat Rutgers last year.
I think that was a good buggaboo, just to make
sure it wasn't a you know, it wasn't a disaster. There,
So a little different vibes so a lot of the
guys who obviously are on the team have actually played
there and won there. The I agree with the the
first part. You can't let donors just negotiate, but you
have to engage them. You have to make them feel good.

(01:13:20):
I mean, these guys are guys with egos who want
to be stroked right and and everybody in their lives does.

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
There's only so many much stroke and you can do
without having to give them some sort of thing like
bad though at some point, right, that's what the money's
for for Jay Bat. That's the talent.

Speaker 4 (01:13:36):
The talent you have to have is the ability to
make people think they thought of something that they didn't
think of. It's the ability to make them feel included
when they're not really not. It's the ability to trick
these and manipulate these guys. You should get together because
that whole little spiel about the game at Ford Field,
like you know, that the whole little thing you had.
I think you should give that to Jay Bad because
I maybe he's using it already. Yeah, you're gonna be sick,

(01:13:59):
you know, a letter to Spartan fans. You're gonna be
so sick of your uncle.

Speaker 1 (01:14:03):
Well, I'm not saying not a letter, but when you
talk to people like listen, you get sick of it,
you're in laws, come down here. I'm with you.

Speaker 4 (01:14:09):
The line of scrimmage, Like, if you can build there,
you're always gonna be able to find decent receivers in
the portal.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
It's like the oldest football, yes fucking thing in the world.
Every football guy from nineteen twelve and on is tells
you from the inside out. You build the football team.
Jesus David Jackson. The offense is a train wreck. Not
once did MSU move the pocket to help blockers. It
didn't help that March Marsh dogged it. He should have
been benched. I'm forced to wonder if Chiles is even hurt.

Speaker 4 (01:14:36):
Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm not going to question
Chiles because it's you know, it's questioning his character. But
I do wonder if, like, you know, you're getting benched
and you got a little tweak, Let's throw a boot
on here, you know, let's just make sure that it's
clear that I'm injured. But to Marsh, like the problem
for Marsh and less Childs because I'm not gonna doubt

(01:14:57):
you guys hurt that's not really fair if I don't
have information. But what Marsh has to understand though, is
he may not be loving the situation. He may have
plans to move on after this year. This is a
but he is a paid professional now. He is one
of Michigan State's highest paid players. Like you, you play
through the end of the year, You're justin Jefferson, You're

(01:15:19):
Jamison with Williams. You know, you're saying Brown that you
are the same you. Part of the deal now is
that you those guys.

Speaker 1 (01:15:26):
Would make way much more money than Marsh's.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
Though I know, but what I'm saying is you you
the deal is when you are paid, like you know,
you have to perform through the end of the year. Now,
they did target him a number of times. It didn't
work and they I mean some of it was a
just had such bad pass protection they couldn't connect anything.
But you know, this is a guy who's considered elite
and he is not played elite in some time, and

(01:15:50):
so that that when you're gonna get that sort of
money and you're gonna have that sort of tag. The
criticism of that is fair.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
I'm not.

Speaker 4 (01:15:59):
It's you know again, I'm careful to say somebody's dogging
it or not trying out there, but you know, I
don't know that, and certainly there wasn't a great performance.

Speaker 1 (01:16:09):
That's fair to say. But you can say whether or
not you'd blame him or not. Like I understand, you're
getting paid, but if you're being put in a position
to like you have your future to think about, there's
more money on the table to think about. I get
that Professor Alessio can play, but won't survive without major
investment in the O line and more thoughtful play calling
that doesn't put him in the three three to five

(01:16:29):
step drops when the tackles are on an island and bonus,
it's time to worry. If Jared Goff can win a
Super Bowl, it's time he guna yabah gita Jared Goff.
I've been worried about that, worried about it since twenty
twenty two when he was throwing it out of bounds
on fourth and third and I was like, what is
happening here? But then he turned the corner and made

(01:16:52):
us a contender.

Speaker 4 (01:16:53):
But so here's the thing about golf is I think
everybody knows that there are circumstances he doesn't perform well
in so the question is can you mitigate those circumstances
so he doesn't have to be in them.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
But that's where your head coach comes in. And I
don't know why Dan Campbell put him in certain positions
when he especially after the halftime, without adjustments.

Speaker 4 (01:17:12):
And this is why I don't know that the Lions
can win multiple super Bowls with them. And again, everybody
in the world would sell for one. But what I
mean is it when you have a great, great quarterback.
I'm talking you know, the Josh Allen who hasn't won
one either, by the way, but like a Holmes type look.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
Bad at times. I mean, I know he scored six touchdowns,
but he throws some weird.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
But you think you can overcome, like the idea of Okay,
you build around this guy year over You're not really
building around golf. You're building a team in golf as
part of that team, and so you do have to
have everything right and the odds and everything's going to
be right year over year are not. You know, he
doesn't elevate you y.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
You know it's all rigged and you have to fight
the refs and Goodell and what he wants, so I
think I want to just give us one super Bowl.

Speaker 4 (01:17:50):
I think they can win a super Bowl. Jared Goff,
I just think they need a year where they have
some some injury lock and things go right and they're
off into line is better than this.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
Pig Miller leaving a Lessio in after he clearly got
his bell rung was an awful look for Smith. His
attentiveness to what's happening on the field just seems to
be off. I don't know that.

Speaker 4 (01:18:09):
I don't think he I mean, they're very careful on
that stuff. I don't think he got his I don't
think he was hurt. They don't have anything else but
a true freshman at this point. I think he wanted
to be in there. I mean, one of the things
that Jonathan Smith talked about during his Monday press conference
was the character that Alessio showed standing in there to
take it on a third and eighteen in the second
last play of the game like that is And I

(01:18:30):
think that was appreciated, and I think that will if
appreciate it for Alessio, that that is going to help. Like,
if you're a Lessio, forget this season. Oh, I'll forget
this season. You may be a starter for two more
weeks and you're putting things on tape. But what I
mean is your future be it at Michigan Sate or elsewhere.
And maybe it's at Michigan State. I'm not saying he's
going to go somewhere else. I'm just saying, when you're

(01:18:51):
talking about negotiating your next contract and having opportunities and leverage,
you are a guy who has shown at and ability
to hang in there that not a lot of guys have,
and because of that, you are going to be in demand.
And so hanging in there on third and eighteen and
the second last play of the game not bad for
your bottom line. It isn't in the long run. If

(01:19:13):
you can, if you can keep yourself from being.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
Killed, it's got you. Next effort is a bare minimum
expectation that can't be the only sign of progress at
this point over last year.

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):
You're right, I mean that that's ultimately after UCLA, the
resort of this idea that Michigan State had had you know,
phoned it in that day, or at least it didn't
look as energized as they needed to be.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
Hey man, we're taking body blows right and they have
fun and I guess I mean you saw an ocean once.

Speaker 4 (01:19:43):
Yeah, if they had, like I said, if they had won,
they had beaten UCLA in Minnesota, even if they had
had that horrible performance against Nebraska, this would be you know,
it'd be a different, different day.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
You can't wait to not talk about this team. It's
gonna be great. Two weeks in the got to love
this Lions loss and the way the Michigan State football
program it overshadows how bad Michigan States shooting from three.
He's got to love that, right, Yeah, I mean, because
it is kind of wild. They're twenty one percent. We
haven't even mentioned it one time today. We'll see, we'll

(01:20:16):
see it. We're trying to be positive, of course, but
I'm just saying it is wild. Well, let's we'll get
into that here momentarily. Let's have it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:21):
Let's take a let's take a quick break. When we
come back. Uh more football takes and time to shoot
on the basketball program.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
Yeah, I didn't mean couching the room.

Speaker 4 (01:20:31):
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Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
Mnfield CAAG next. MSU's home slate next year is Eastern Michigan, Toledo, Illinois, Nebraska,
Northwestern Washington and Oregon, and I listed them to save
the howftime without a new coach selling hope, we might
be looking at a huge decrease, decrease in season two,
gets in revenue next year, just another reason to fire Smith.

Speaker 4 (01:24:06):
Yeah, I mean, I guess Oregon is the is the
marquee game, you know, Illinois, Nebraska not bad, Washington not bad. Yeah,
it's Look, that is one of the things you have
to consider. At a certain point. You're costing yourself money,
not only if you just keep losing, but if you
know the revenue in the in the gate is not
not great.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
So I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:24:27):
Look, I don't think he's even be back. I don't
And I think that sucks for a lot of reasons.
I think it stinks because Michigan State made a higher
that it's not gonna work out, and it's sort of
a waste of time. But I think you're wasting more
time if you don't make that move. And I think
it sucks because they they landed on a guy who's
seemed like a good hire at the time, who's a
good dude, and they gave him a shit situation to

(01:24:48):
deal with. But that doesn't mean ultimately this is you know.
This is why you're paying these guys as much to
get things right and get it in the right direction quickly.
And it hasn't happened.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Nate. Next Keith Smith and fire whoever decided not to
be clear. We hamstrung him with recruiting restrictions. Next, uh
minister a test regarding ethics and the NC double a
fire anyone who says they would work with them regarding violations. Third,
go all in on basketball twenty six and twenty seven,

(01:25:20):
and get Izzo's second in Detroit.

Speaker 4 (01:25:24):
So obviously the Final Four is in Detroit, and you're excited.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
You love that? Yeah, I don't, But that's just me.

Speaker 4 (01:25:30):
It's here's why, and this is and I should have
tweeted that out on Thursday night naturally.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
How long did you wait till you found out? Like
thirty seconds? I knew it, yeah, and I was dumb.
It was not good for anybody. No one likes to
send because what they do, and it's different. The Final
Four is different than the second and first and second
round games there where the players really don't like it
because it doesn't feel like you're going anywhere. It's hard
to do your job. It just I but from my standpoint,

(01:25:58):
I don't like it, but that doesn't mean it's not
great for fans. Like a lot of people were tweeting
back at me rightfully, so this is like a core
memory of their fandom. The last time it was in Detroit.
Now Ford Field sucks is a venue, and I don't
If I were the NCAA, I would not let them
host until they change their entire seating structure. So doesn't
so quickly go horizontally because it's one of the worst

(01:26:18):
places to watch a basketball game. It's freaking awfull. Now,
maybe they'll move things around a little bit, as they
have at the Final Four, since they don't really have
them in the middle of the court. In the middle anymore,
it's a little so maybe it'll be a little bit
better because it was one of the worst views last time.
But again, core memory for a lot of people. Probably
would be a proud on people's core memories. I'm gonna

(01:26:39):
I don't know, man, that was like my favorite moment
with my dad of all time. Yeah, but really, did
you guys have fun? Yeah? I mean, come on, just
be serious. Coreostroum Number one. If fiscal help is indeed
a concern, then MSU must cut ties with Jonathan Smith immediately.
To do what Wisconsin and Maryland are doing seems reasonable,
but the donor and fan bases are checked out at

(01:26:59):
ms You the investment in a bay, a new coach,
and players will lead to more income. And two, the
amount of jobs opening college football is insignificant where it
concerns MSU. MSU is not going to attract the top
tier coaches in any cycle, let alone this one, but
they could get a good culture fit that attracts donors
and from Scott U, football coaching is about fit. Anyone

(01:27:23):
scared right now that other schools are hiring so we
won't get the best coach. Just stop. D'Antonio was eighteen
and seventeen at Sincy and that was a great fit.
Scum hired the best coach that same cycle in rich Rod,
and it was a flop from the fit standpoint.

Speaker 4 (01:27:38):
I think that's a really good point. And both these
are good. But the idea that you can't be scared of.
I keep hearing this idea that though there's so many
job openings out there, how many good coaches? This is
gonna happen every year. There's gonna be a lot of
openings next year and the year after that, and this
is the way college football is gonna operate at least
for a while.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
And you can't.

Speaker 4 (01:27:59):
You got worry about you and what you need and
you cannot waste time. And I understand if you don't
think you can get the right coach, then you're just
wasting time.

Speaker 1 (01:28:06):
But you got to go. That's the job is to
go get the right coach. It's hard.

Speaker 4 (01:28:09):
D'Antonio was a great hire, not just because of the fit,
but the way the process went. It was during the
interview that they you know, and Brian Kelly was somebody
who was up for a job at that you know
at that point too wound up replacing D'Antonio at Cincinnati,
and Luenna k Simon hated Brian Kelly. I mean, I
think she had good instincts in certain ways. Brian Kelly
think the other uh just did not like and that

(01:28:32):
so that was not gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:28:34):
But D'Antonio in that interview, you talk to the people
were there, Hollis and Haller and all these people who
were part of that conversation and where that interview was,
and D'Antonio just as he was speaking to them, it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:45):
Was like, that's the guy. You know.

Speaker 4 (01:28:47):
They knew it before everybody else. Everybody else knew it
once they lost that Michigan game and he started talking.
They knew it before then. And so you have to
let the interviews work. You have to let people sell
themselves to you. This is still a good job relative
to most football jobs in this country, and there are
people out there who would do it well, and your
job is to figure it out. And they didn't get

(01:29:09):
it right with Jonathan Smith, even though he's a good coach.
They didn't get it right with uh Michigan, didn't get
it right with with rich Rodriguez, even though he was
a great coach at West Virginia. And so you've got to,
you know, you've got to not get caught up in
like bells and whistles and not get caught up in
worrying about other shit. And you've got to let those
interviews happen. And you've got to know when you have

(01:29:30):
the right guy and trust your gut on that. And again,
that's why you're in the leadership and the positions you
are if you're Jay Batt and Kevin Guskowitz, and that
that's that's the job and Izzo will be a part
of that as well.

Speaker 1 (01:29:41):
And uh yeah, by the way, I will buy three
LFJ LSJ subscriptions if we can get that Brian Kelly
luannak Simon like story. I need to know what well,
why she didn't like and what the vibe he just
comes across as an area. I forget it. Yeah, I
get it. I just want to read. Yeah, he just yes,
I want some content for my nineteen ninety eight in
a month, damn it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:01):
You know who we should have on for that sort
of stuff. As we go through the search and we're
just looking for fun shows and fun interviews. A guy
ran into the other day that we used to have
on when I did Eveling show back in the day.
Is Terry Denbo. Because he was in Terry Denvo was
in those you want a guy he was. He was
in leadership at the United sty Dominic listening No no, no,
Dominic would be all in. Well, but you want that story,

(01:30:21):
Denbo has it. Denbo. Denbo is in all these meetings,
like Denbo knows and he'll tell details. I think, so, yeah, yeah,
Denbo would be great on that sort of stuff. Denbo
would be Yeah, you want that story? That we'll we'll
find out, we'll find a window for that tells a
little tale, all right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well I thought
he's so pro Mscu.

Speaker 1 (01:30:39):
I thought he tried to say no, well he I mean,
but he's I mean yeah, I mean he obviously used
to be a guy whose job was to spin. But
he also does he have any good condo stories? He's
got condo stories? I'll ask. All right, let's get it here,
Denbo now yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, Terry Troy Hunter.
Another disappointingly quiet Sunday in East Lancing. I hope Jay

(01:31:01):
badd is working on a backroom deal with Pat Fitzgerald
or Brian Kelly, since they're unemployed.

Speaker 4 (01:31:05):
It can't be Brian Kelly. It just can't be Brian Kelly.
If it is Brian Kelly, it would be a backroom deal.
Though if it was Brian kill, Brian Kelly is done.
Like you can't have a guy who's that checked. Brian
Kelly is the example of the big name in the
bells and whistle to get distracted with. There are mid
major coaches, Division two coaches. There are coaches who would
do better than Brian Kelly. Now I'm not saying Brian
Kelly at one point wasn't a very effective coach. That's obvious.

(01:31:27):
But this part of the reason he's gone is because
he lost steam at his last job. It's sort of like,
you know D'Antonio at the end. No, I'm not saying
Antonio wasn't trying, but he wasn't as hungry. That group
lost some steam. Kelly has passed it. Fitzgerald, on the
other hand, is a guy with a chip on his shoulder.
I'm sure who's still in the prime of his career
who wants to prove something. That's a different matter.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
You and Brian Kelly would get along, though, wouldn't you.

Speaker 4 (01:31:52):
I like ivery interaction I've ever had with him has
been positive. And I covered his first game at Cincinnati
right after D'Antonio came here the International Bowl in Toronto.
Would you tell him that in Cincinnati? I've told him
that before when Cincinnati played Uh, well, he knew me
a little bit because he had been at Central where
I went in I was covering.

Speaker 1 (01:32:08):
H Yeah, I remember when you were two hundred and eighty
seven pounds. Man. It was I really say, we're worried
about you.

Speaker 4 (01:32:12):
Not quite that fat back then, but the Uh, but
he was great because what was fun for the Cincinnati
folks at that point is D'Antonio. Everybody remembers D'Antonio. He
did not love doing interviews. He didn't do a lot
of extra stuff even at Cincinnati, and they couldn't even
control Kelly. He talked to anybody like he comes into
that job. I remember him bouncing down the escalator at
the hotel in Toronto and like just half like my conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:32:33):
Yeah, amazing MCV. The other night, several thousand crows were
going crazy over my neighborhood in Land scene. If this
is If this isn't a sign that Jonathan Smith is
coming back, then I don't know what is. And bonus.
MSU's first official show of support for its football coach
should beat to sue the NCAA for those wins back
and a lesser penalty.

Speaker 4 (01:32:56):
Uh yeah, I mean I don't think you're gonna do
that because what they don't want is the the fine.
You have to realize is is the money matters here.
And so if Michigan lost thirty million and Michigan and
Michigan may have the donors to just cover that, and
that's fine. Michigan State does not. Michigan State got less
than a million, and maybe even less than that, but
it's certainly, certainly well under a million dollars in total

(01:33:18):
fines for this, and they may not have to pay
mel Tucker much at all. And so for Michigan State
trying to do what they're trying to do right now,
and it sucks in the time being, but this is
this is the this is the approach. And like, if
you know, Michigan State has had a lot of changes
over time in leadership, but not at the general council level, right,

(01:33:39):
the top guy. They're still the top guy. And for
better or worse, I think some of the way they
operate is directed coming out of legal decisions and things of.

Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
Do you have a ballpark of what Tucker made at
Michigan I mean, like what's he I know, the eighty
millions on the side, Like what did he get? He's
made over twenty mili right here, So he was well,
yeah because he had oh yeah, because he had two
years where he got paid well, I got fired in
the second year of that deal a year. But what
was he making He was getting paid what seven?

Speaker 4 (01:34:09):
But the first two years he wasn't there, but he was. Yeah,
he made over twenty million total. I would think four
taxes will be all right. Well, I mean, you know,
not no longer try to go fund me or anything,
no longer married, you know. Oh yeah, yeah that's who.

Speaker 1 (01:34:23):
I don't. You know. He may have to work again
at some point in his life, depending on how how
he handled it. Damn David's Andy next. Major college sports
are now defined by who has the best lawyers to
defend their behaviors. It has nothing to do with the
game on the field. This has led me to stop
watching and caring. My life is meaningfully better for the
decision I made.

Speaker 4 (01:34:45):
Yeah, I'm not telling you, like if you can check
out from MSU football until there's something that's worth celebrating.
I would not advise you to watch because of the show.
We need to talk about it. But I swear if this,
you know, if it wasn't on, like what else was
on at three thirty? Would you watch something different? Episode
of Good Times? Just anything else?

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
Yeah? Yeah, Roger and rerun and d Yeah, I mean
rest in p D. Yeah, it's a great show. I loved.
Oh no, what's happening? That's what's happening. People arebbly yelling
at me. Is that what I said? What I say,
good times, good times? What's happening? I meant what's happened?
Oh really, you were You know what I was talking about?
Oh yeah, sparty Barb number one, mister bat needs to

(01:35:24):
appeal the NC DOUBLEA regarding recruiting and fines. MSU is
not a punching bag for this atrocious organization and who
won't vacate wins by cheaters to book your tickets for
Detroit in twenty twenty seven with the talent of Izzo's
new class coming in, plus our veterans final four here
week come and three. Congratulations to MSU women's soccer on

(01:35:44):
avoiding the trap game Friday. This team is very connected
and we'll go far in the NC Double a's if
Bell is healthy. Bonus Graham, Were you sauntering across the
field at Martin during halftime in a black winter coat
and a Muskox flannel?

Speaker 4 (01:36:00):
I was not in a black winter coat. I was
in a Muskox flannel. It was a beautiful night. There
was no a I mean, I'm not in a coat
and a forty five degree night. It was like a
fifty two degree night. It was a flannel only night. Right,
I did not have a coat on. Maybe I did
for part of it late, but.

Speaker 1 (01:36:16):
Do you remember having a black coat on?

Speaker 4 (01:36:18):
And now that I think about it, now that I
think about it, I may have had a black coat
on for part of it, but I was very comfortable
and just yeah, it was it was me. That was
That was me sauntering across the field. All you have
to say is someone was sauntering. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you
two can saunter in a Muskos flannel if you want.
Whatever to the one of the things, the sparty bar
second point, the idea of is oh in this class

(01:36:40):
and the final four and all that? If you look
at the last time people thought that was a possibility, Right,
it was the Xavier Booker, Cohen Car, Jeremy Fear's class
with Tyson Walker and all those guys coming back, and
that didn't work. Now, part of that didn't work because
Booker wasn't as ready, None of those guys were as ready,
and obviously Jeremy Fears got shot and Car wasn't quite ready.

(01:37:01):
This is a better class in that, and a better
big man in that, and Ethan Taylor more physically ready
guy seven to one and like two hundred and fifty pounds.
But the key to this is the return and the
hunger of the veterans, and that is where you really
want to make sure certain guys are turned.

Speaker 3 (01:37:17):
Now.

Speaker 4 (01:37:17):
Obviously cam wod should be a sophomore, should be hungry,
should that should be a big year for him. That
should be a guy you'd get. But guys like making
sure you bring back Fears and making sure you bring
back Cohen Carr, I think are two really important moves
in this. And making sure their heads are still in
the right place and you pay to bring them back,
because this only works with young guys if you have
the right veterans there too, and if you can get

(01:37:39):
another year out of car And I don't think you know,
I don't think he's going to be Maybe the NBA
would look at him and we'll see how this finishes
and what they want. But and certainly Fears next year
with that group, I think that's essential.

Speaker 1 (01:37:51):
Sparti Advisor Next. Michigan State is a basketball school that
wants to be a football school. I was born in
nineteen eighty and in that period MSU has had a
handful of years with Pearlis, one year with Sabin and
the Mark D'Antonio stretch that were truly exceptional, but other
than that, it's average to below average to bad. Compare
that to basketball over the same period. Judd wasn't Izzo,

(01:38:14):
but he cycled up plenty post Magic, Skyle's Steve Smith,
Fire and nic years.

Speaker 4 (01:38:19):
Basketball and football was the same Heath Goat and Peerlis
in that sense, I mean every four years Michigan State
was really good in basketball, and they were pretty good
the year before, and they were okay the before. Then
there was in an it year or two and that's
what it was. And similar to football basketball in the
late seventies before Magic really and even a little after Magic,
but before Magic, like they they couldn't get people at Jennison.

(01:38:41):
The games were only packed Atjennison when like it was
Magic and you know Jay Vincent playing it ever in
Eastern then they would pack it, but they couldn't, you know.
So this has always been a place that wants to
be a football school year correct, but has the potential,
Like everybody is a football coolhen football goes well, Ask
Indiana right now. Indiana's a football school today and they're

(01:39:05):
not kidding about that, Like, will people get pissed off
if basketball is not good? Yeah, but if football is great,
they'll deal with it. If you can be great in football, people,
So you're right, then in.

Speaker 1 (01:39:16):
October will go. Man, we used to love October because
that's when basketball started.

Speaker 4 (01:39:20):
It's a long offseason if you don't have good hoops.
So I yeah, I agree with that. There's a certain degree.
But yeah, MS you if MS she wants to be MS,
you can be a successful football school. But they've got
to get this right. And you know, it's it's it's
hiring the right person and then it's getting everybody behind them.
And that's what it takes.

Speaker 1 (01:39:40):
Detroit Spartan. I didn't watch a snap of Saturday's game.
Seems like Smith is gonna end up staying wake us
up in twenty thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:39:46):
That's too long, he and what happens then the rub
and I will be dead in twenty thirty, So buried
in muskox but dead.

Speaker 1 (01:39:52):
So what year is it now? Wait? Five years? Oh yeah,
it makes sense to be around twenty thirty. We're go.
I guess yeah, that's up in the air.

Speaker 4 (01:40:01):
I probably shouldn't be The Live reads for buried in
the muskets. I don't need people like you too, can
look great in your casket A must. Guys, it's not
a great.

Speaker 1 (01:40:10):
Association, mister ben Jen, I think I have this correct.
Michigan openly cheated. Nothing really happened to him. MSU did
what more or less is legal now to the tune
of ten thousand dollars, and we get closer to Penn
States penalty. Awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:40:25):
Well, the money is what's different, and and and the
vacated wins it sucks and it's ridiculous, it's it's done, cares,
But the money is the big difference. The money is
Michigan is like probably forty times what Michigan State's gonna owe.
And that is that is what's different. And that's what's
uh just you know, yeah, it's it's it sucks. And

(01:40:47):
I think vacating wins because it doesn't matter. It matters
for the coaches and the players who are there.

Speaker 1 (01:40:54):
It doesn't. I understand you still played the game. I
would remember like, yeah, we won that game, Like, well,
it's vacer I can't talk.

Speaker 4 (01:41:01):
If I were MSU, I would not vacate it. In
my record books. I'd put an Aster's and say the
NCAA may not recognize this, but I would still I
would include that.

Speaker 1 (01:41:08):
I mean, I mean, but it's not like you're going
to brag about the fourteen vacated wins over three years, right, Yeah,
I mean, there's nothing to brag either, so don't I mean,
you could take them out if you want, But if
you want to talk to me about the three seasons,
I'll be like, yeah, they're still counting in my brain.
Stupidest shardy. Next, everything good Haller did with the non
rev Sports is rendered useless with his constant mistakes in

(01:41:30):
handling football, expending, extending Tucker, hiring Smith thinking he could
ice out the donors because he thought Nil was done
reporting football violations.

Speaker 4 (01:41:41):
He tried to ruin MSU. I'm pretty sure he didn't
try to ruin MSU. I mean, there are certainly fair
criticisms of Haller, increasing criticisms with Halla that are that
are fair at this point, and because he said it himself,
he would be tied to Smith. It has not worked.
That hired did not work. Was it a decent hire?
It seemed at the time, sure, but that's ultimately not
how these things are Judge and football determined so much.

(01:42:03):
But he did do a nice job with some sports
that needed attention, and that's it's an easier day for
Jay Bat that he's got a women's basketball program that
looks like in Tony Up, that he's got a hockey
program that's rolling, that he's got a women's soccer program
that's you know, that's flying. And granted that was a
technically a Beakman higher with the women's soccer, but the listen,

(01:42:25):
do you think that Bill Beakman.

Speaker 1 (01:42:28):
Sorry, I know it's long, but every time you see
Bill Beakman, he gotta do it automatically plays you gotta
do it.

Speaker 4 (01:42:32):
Look, Haller did the best he could. Did he did
he screw some things up? Did he not have some
some skills that he needed to to get the job done?
Apparently so, But he didn't try to ruin himsu.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
Chris next, the people that always complained Haller didn't stand
up for MSCU enough, better keep that same energy for
j Bat. Ps. I'll join the ovation for Allan because
of what he did for hockey and women's people and bonus.
Much like the Tigers before him, A Maga Rah has
cursed the Lions with his trump Jerkoff dance. We're still

(01:43:05):
getting questions from Blue Sky. That's good. Yeah, I see
we got a lot of Blue Sky listening. You'd you'd
be surprised. I wouldn't.

Speaker 4 (01:43:12):
The I'm just saying, yeah, look what Haller did, some
very good things and uh and some sports that were neglected,
and some of it, like what's weird is he got
this whole thing with the arena now that there was
was his sort of brain child, the new arena for
for volleyball and gymnastics in wrestling, that's probably that's not

(01:43:34):
going to happen. But that was the only part of
the project that I found interesting at all. I would
cancel the rest of that, Like, you don't need more hotels,
you don't need another I don't think you know another district.
You certainly don't want to build anything on Monfield like that.
I The only part I thought was interesting was that
uh arena. Now, if the money right now needs to
be spent elsewhere and it doesn't make sense even though

(01:43:55):
it costs you a lot to have volleyball it Jennison,
and you've got to play for gymnastics and all that stuff,
then then so be it. I think wrestling at some
point won't be a support at MSU. I don't know when,
but I just I can't imagine that ten years from
now wrestling is still a supported MSU. So from that standpoint,
but yeah, he did, he did some good things for
m s U and obviously the big one football Uh,

(01:44:18):
he did not get right.

Speaker 1 (01:44:19):
Chop number one. From what I've seen so far, Jay
Batt is just another copy paste limp, wristed slap dick,
empty suit eight D in the mold of Beakman, Haller,
et cetera. Not impressed. Even if he's somehow pushed to
make the right call with Smith, I have zero confidence
in him making a better hire. We are doomed. And
two the Pistons have culture and it's awesome to see.

(01:44:40):
I mean, this is this is.

Speaker 4 (01:44:41):
Why Jay Batt didn't want this to happen, whatever he
thought of Smith after he you know, met him and
dealt with him and all this stuff. Because this is
why you didn't want it already, because you you're on
the clock. Once you make this move or if you
don't make this move, it becomes about you. Like you know,
if you're Jay Smith and you're just make you're making
HighRes now for your staff, and and these are critical
hires in terms of revenue generation within the department, right

(01:45:05):
You're trying to reach out and get donors on board
and get everybody moving in the right direction. And I'm
sure he would have loved to have been a year
from now needing to make this decision one way or another,
and without it feeling like if you give the guy
another year, you're just wasting time and pissing everybody off.
And so this is not an ideal situation for him

(01:45:26):
or anyone, and he's going to have to prove himself.
But he's also you know, hasn't done anything, you know.
And obviously the situation with like the concessions, I think
that was I don't know exactly when that was. Honest way,
I don't think that was entirely just a J batt thing,
though I should get that right before I actually say it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:42):
But for what well I fire it out c K.
The biggest indictment of the staff isn't the lack of
talent or being non competitive against good teams. It's when
the teams are relatively even, MSU will always fall short,
always make the big mistake, or have bad penalty or
mismanage of the game and bonus happy to see JJ

(01:46:04):
McCarthy has been a disaster. He probably needs to meditate
more complete malpractice by the Vikings GM to have a
competitive but aging roster and putting it in the hands
of the most predictable draft bust in a decade.

Speaker 4 (01:46:18):
It sucks to be the Viking train now because you
actually a person. You have a really good roster though,
And I thought McCarthy is gonna be okay at the
beginning of this year. It's just he's so inconsistent up
and down there. Yeah, their whole season is I mean,
you just wait. You can't waste time in the NFL
and the line. That's what's driving people nuts about the Lions.
It feels like there's a chance that you waste this
year and we're not there yet entirely, but it does

(01:46:39):
feel like there's a level above the Lions right now
in the NFC, and that's I think frustrating for people.

Speaker 1 (01:46:44):
Dan next Dan Campbell goes for it on fourth down
so much that it can't hurt the team. Oh in
five was painful last night and the loss to the Eagles.
It's okay to try a field goal sometimes the Lions.
Leaky O line is a vulnerability that needs work. Finally,
play calling is distracting Campbell from his overall head coach role.
A real offensive coordinator is needed. Go Lions.

Speaker 4 (01:47:07):
Yeah, that's what we said earlier. I mean, yeah, I
think we both think that in terms of managing the game,
it takes some thought, sometimes a few plays ahead, and
if you're locked into that, it's you know, I yeah,
I think it. I hope it affected him negatively because
if those were just his actual decisions, and then I'm
even more worried.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
Mike Scott number one that thud is the Lion's super
Bowl windows. Shutting a mobile quarterback means you needed an
elite offensive line. When the best player in football, our
best center in football retired in an all Pro guard left,
Brad Holmes decided to replace a blow average guard and
move him to center and rely on basically two rookie
guards and two do we know if Jay Batt is

(01:47:47):
alive or was that a body double at the women's
soccer game? Was he wearing a flannel and a black coat?
Letting lawyers run the athletic department saying nothing about this
embarrassing football program hiring people in athletics when all other
departments are laying people off.

Speaker 4 (01:48:04):
Well, you can't run a bare bones athletic department and
and make money. You do have to spend and make money.
I make the right hires, but you know, that's the
hard part about this, and this is why the athletic
department has to be its own entity, and this is
why he's got some initiatives there that are making even
more separate from the university because you're right, it is

(01:48:25):
you have to survive on your own. You have to
swim on your own. You can't have the cuts that
they're having university wide. And then you know, spend certain
ways or you know, get rid of a football coach
or the big buyout. You can't do it. People won't
stand for it, and there will be you want to
backlash and people not showing up at Spartan Stadium. There
are a lot of people in this community, in the

(01:48:45):
Spartan fan base that care a lot about football, but
also have a bigger picture of things. And I mean
this goes if you remember, you know, way back to him.
It's most of you won't remember this, and we barely
remember this, but you go back to when George Perlis
was made athletic director by the Board of Trustees despite
the objection of Di Diomaggio, Diomaggio di Bagio, whatever the

(01:49:10):
hell is Diabaggio Diemagia, the late the late president of
the UN the United State of the of Michigan State.

Speaker 1 (01:49:17):
People were pissed. There are people gave up their.

Speaker 4 (01:49:18):
Season tickets and said, you know that that we don't
believe that the priorities are correct, and that that was
that was a big thing.

Speaker 1 (01:49:25):
All right, Rich Serian number one. I'm sure you're getting
lots of input on this, but explain to me, like
I'm five years old, MSU has to vacate wins while
the idiots get off with a hand slap. How can
anyone say the NCAA has any credibility or relevance anymore?
Or is this MSU piling up, piling up more AMMO
to justify not paying buyouts. And two, if car and

(01:49:47):
Fears stay next year and nobody gets injured, the Spartans
are a Final four team.

Speaker 4 (01:49:51):
So nothing with this is gonna matter for a Jonathan
Smith buyout. This isn't you know he didn't do anything
wrong in this situation.

Speaker 1 (01:49:57):
They did not know.

Speaker 4 (01:49:58):
I mean, given their that roster, there's just no way
Jonathan Smith and that staff would have played an ineligible
player if they'd known that that was that was the case, right,
The NC Double A is it's relevant in the sense that,
look what it just did to Michigan State. Look, people
still look to it to certain degrees, but it's increasingly
irrelevant and its credibility is is shit. And this is

(01:50:21):
an organization that, you know, for years and years and
years just really try to ruin the lives of athletes
who got forty dollars from an agent, who's who had
a coach spend, you know, two hundred dollars to cover
a bill back to families like this is an ass.
It's just the their overall sense of morality pisses me off.

(01:50:43):
And I would like if I were, you know, if
I were framing a statement to the NC Double A
or at this point and maybe this doesn't help you,
maybe this is why I shouldn't be in that rule,
I would use the word kindly, but I would have
f often.

Speaker 1 (01:51:02):
Richard Kane, it's my understanding that Haller knew the program
was under investigation and didn't tell Smith that moves me
into the camp that thinks Haller was a terrible ad.
That kind of dishonesty from a leader is inexcusable? Or
am I wrong about this? And from Matty B these
two things almost seem unreal and require more answers. One,
Lancing Sexton's finest didn't bother to tell his hire the

(01:51:25):
school was under investigation. Two, the NCUBLEA didn't tell MSU
about an ineligible player and we just said, okay, give
us your best. And from alexis, please elaborate on former
ad Haller not disclosing the NCAA violations and pending investigation
to coach Smith while he was courted to be hired.

(01:51:45):
Is that normal procedure to not disclose a self reported investigation?
Or was the super dishonest and sketchy? Furthermore? I love furthermore. Furthermore,
did this have anything to do with Haller being abruptly
fired in May? I no, I don't believe.

Speaker 3 (01:52:01):
So.

Speaker 4 (01:52:02):
I believe the Haller thing was was coming based on
donor situations, and because they didn't know this, they knew
penalties might be coming, they did not realize the vacated
wins were coming. To this degree, I do not believe,
and the Haller firing was people keep people in the
administration were out on them and were concerned about their

(01:52:24):
ability to generate revenue and and donor relations, and that
that led to his exit to the question though the
overall theme of this is what did Haller? What did
Haller tell Smith? What did what should it be?

Speaker 1 (01:52:37):
Told? Smith?

Speaker 4 (01:52:38):
And I need to talk to Haller soon about this
because it is a It is a fair question. I
think it's you know, when you look at the contract,
though it's some weird language there when you think about
who you should be as a if you're asking about
a job. All the discussions that Haller and Smith had
at Smith's house out in Oregon, his agent must have

(01:53:01):
had lots of questions all the stuff with the contract,
like the idea that Smith didn't ask if there was
anything coming from this situation with mel Tucker that his
agent Watiff like, this is not all on that, and
so I think there is a little more that needs
to be explained. I do not believe Alan Haller to
be somebody who would try to mislead Smith about important

(01:53:21):
information like this. Now that is, I read through the
timing and understand everything with the NCA investigation. I don't
believe they thought a lot more serious was coming at
the time of the higher like they thought this was
pretty contained, I think, and it was not. These weren't
level one violations, they were level three. It was not

(01:53:43):
going to be much of anything that said. If truly
there was never a mention of it from Haller and
there was some sort of inquiry about it from Smith
and then that wasn't disclosed. Then that's really bad. That's
something that the Dallan Haller deserves all the smoke for.

(01:54:03):
And we just need to figure out what what's what?
Have you talked to Haller? I have not, but I will.
Do you know where he is?

Speaker 1 (01:54:08):
I do? Where's he? Well? I mean say it? Want
you want to add it was a doxing Allen Hower.
Oh my bad. You don't do that, Maddie B. I
was tested only was dominic dominic right now? Is that me?
I got his location on my phone. I see where
dominic is. Oh that's weird, Maddi B. Someone telled the
MSU administration there's a happy medium between taking accountability and

(01:54:32):
doing the right thing versus just laying down and dying
at every turn. Why would athletes want to play for
a school that doesn't stand up for them.

Speaker 4 (01:54:41):
I don't think they perceive it so athletes. First of all,
athletes are nineteen twenty twenty one years old. They don't
see these things over time. I don't see that as value.

Speaker 1 (01:54:48):
Well, they don't. They don't see it the same way
like they're just yeah, they're not researching that aspect of
the university. I think when they visit, they're in line
at Harper's. They don't have any fun right ship. They
just don't. Yeah, I mean, I mean, you got guys
who are still committing. Like people aren't paying that close
attention to stuff. You know, Like we've said this before.
Kids are stupid, Like it's it's it's not it's yeah,

(01:55:09):
spartan old people are stupid too, Spartan dog ninety seven.
Hall her self reporting a violation while knowing Mel Tucker
was under a Title nine investigation would have me salivating
if I were Mel's lawyer.

Speaker 4 (01:55:21):
I don't see why. I mean, those are two very
separate things. Though I bought the lawyers. I mean, shout
out to the lawyers. How much money of these lawyers
are gonna make?

Speaker 1 (01:55:27):
Yeah? Wow, we're already made. Yeah, the fucking nastery I
mean sorry, the N word. Yeah, well you go back
there and that that's the one that's shit. I mean,
like there's like three lawyers mostly that represented all those women,
and so they got a certain percentage. They made more
than anything, a little by like six fold. I mean
it was It's ridiculous. I mean, man, I'm telling you what.
Like the one guy built a music hall down here downtown.

(01:55:49):
He made so much money man music venue. Ralph Ee
number one either smart or opportune canceling the Thursday show
to great Spartan speak last week, and three champions Classic
Izzo doesn't do well at MSG. Kentucky offers a different challenge, thoughts. Yeah,
will be. They're a little more seasoned in the back court,

(01:56:10):
pretty athletic. You know.

Speaker 4 (01:56:12):
Their front line is good. I don't think it's great.
They've got a kid who's shooting the piss out of
the ball right now, and that's that's that's a little
bit of concern that they're like eleven deep, even with
their point guard out with an injury, with an injured shoulders.

Speaker 1 (01:56:27):
So like they're they're really good.

Speaker 4 (01:56:29):
You can only play five guys though, so Michigan Sate
just got a you know, team defense and rebound like
they are that they have been, especially on the offensive end.
We'll see. I'm very curious to see this game. There
have been games where Michigan State has played in this
there have been champions Classics where MSU felt like an underdog,
felt like it the whole game, like they didn't have
a chance, and like they were just a notch below.
I feel like Kentucky's probably better than MSU, but I

(01:56:51):
don't know that physically. MSU is going to be beneath
them in a lot of ways. And I'm curious to
see how it looks. And I think that's a little
different than some of the other situations. Like that Spartan
speak was good. Huh sorry, let you talk. It's one
of our better ones. Well I muted him once the
one oh yeah yeah talk.

Speaker 1 (01:57:10):
Dan Grave Graham wasn't sick. He didn't want to deal
with the questions last week. Nos best he was kind
of sick. It was a little sick. You know, there's
behind the scenes, Skyler Verden Graham. If you don't take
the money you are saving for the World Cup and
donate it to the Lancing promise, promise, you are a hypocrite.

(01:57:31):
What's the return on investment for you? With the World Cup?
I get frustrated with being being with people dumping ridiculous
amounts of money into college football, but everyone spends money
on stuff with no tangible return.

Speaker 4 (01:57:44):
Now, this is it's a fair point in some degree. Now,
but I'm talking about money that can't make a difference.
If I So, if I won five hundred million dollars
and then a lottery, right, what about five million? But
five million doesn't do enough either. What I'm saying is
if I want enough money to set aside an account
that paid.

Speaker 1 (01:58:04):
That's ridiculous. The five million doesn't do anything. What doesn't
do enough long term? Right?

Speaker 4 (01:58:08):
If five million, I'd be better off setting myself up
in a good place to help other people. But the
five hundred million, you could put enough money aside that would?

Speaker 1 (01:58:19):
You know? I would?

Speaker 4 (01:58:19):
I would put half of that aside to pay for
kids and lancing to forever go to college for free,
and it would just cycle and pay for itself. And
I would happily do that. But you're right, You're right,
there is some But my point is if you have
the real money, the money where you could actually put
a debt in that. You know, my uh my wife

(01:58:41):
gives to a lot of charity's, so that rubs off
on me, right, I get credit for that way to throw.

Speaker 1 (01:58:47):
That in there, MSU Twitter bully Next, Jeremy Fears seems
to have a similar to Draymond Green type dog in
him and gives MSU had needed winners mentality. Also, when
you squint hard enough, you can see a little hashtag
jokes in Jack and Cohler.

Speaker 4 (01:59:00):
He had the nickname Baby Jokich or or Baby Jokic
whatever he was, but he was, you know, the difference
is that, but then you have to be called baby
insist he gotta finish the one thing he hasn't done
to this point, and I'm curious to see if he
can get to this in his final year. And this
shouldn't be his final year. They should have redhered him
two years ago and he'd be part of next year's team.

(01:59:23):
But can he become somebody who's finally an efficient score
and second all the footwork in the world, become an
elite rebounder at the college game, very good college player,
to be a great college player, to be like a
first team All Big ten guy or whatever would require
him to be become an efficient shot maker, and he's
yet to be able to to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:59:40):
Some dude, I can't figure out what's more amazing to
me that Izzo was as successful as he was without
paying players, or how successful he would have been if
he had been paying players the whole time. And bonus,
MSU definitely wanted that heavier suspension from the NCAA. It's
the only thing that makes sense. Couch knows something. Well,
I mean, I you do, what do you know? I

(02:00:02):
don't think they wanted the vacated stuff. I don't think
they thought it's meaningless. Why not?

Speaker 4 (02:00:07):
Well, I mean they wanted the lack of they didn't
want the heavy fine, and they didn't mind mel Tucker
being tainted. Right, I mean, this is.

Speaker 5 (02:00:15):
That's the taint. Yeah, I don't. We don't have enough
time for all of that.

Speaker 1 (02:00:19):
He's setting it up today? Yeah? Is that it? Yeah?
Oh yeah? It is o for pres for college football
teams that make a bowl game but not the playoffs.
What is the expected opt out rate this year? I
think we're going to see a lot of third stringers
and walkouts. Yeah, I mean it sucks, right, The yeah,
the postseason. I mean the Bowl game used to be.

(02:00:41):
It used to be so much fun, like the from
like the December eighteenth through December thirtieth, like watching bowl
games every day and all that stuff. I used to
love it.

Speaker 4 (02:00:48):
Yeah, but a lot of ball games were asked though.
I know, but now it's you don't even see the
teams as they were. That's the problem. It's not the
same team as it was.

Speaker 1 (02:00:55):
I don't know. I answent the I saw some meme
or something about the Rose Bowl being the host of
the national championship game, like make it every year.

Speaker 4 (02:01:04):
Yeah, I wouldn't mind it, but that's not gonna work.
People they want to move that around. I just yeah, yeah,
the Rose Bowl.

Speaker 1 (02:01:09):
I'm just saying. I just I just.

Speaker 4 (02:01:11):
Want the quarterfinals to be on campus. I think you
can have the semis and the finals be placed, but
the quarterfinals need to be moved on campus because it's
too good an opportunity.

Speaker 1 (02:01:20):
Kevin from Rochester Hills Number one Jared Goff sucks against
good teams. Two MSU football is lost, and three Dan
Campbell needs to check ego and just kick the ball.

Speaker 4 (02:01:29):
I don't think it's ego with him. I think it's
just he he gets caught up in his own this
is what we do, and that's not a little bit
of ego.

Speaker 1 (02:01:35):
Yeah, okay, that's what we do. I mean you have
to have an ego to say some shit like that,
which I understand. But like sometimes when a certain situation arises,
like last night, when you have the wind and golf
not playing well, you got to take the points.

Speaker 4 (02:01:49):
A great example the game earlier in the day, one
of the four o'clock games, was that the Broncos and Chiefs,
and the Broncos had two opportunities early to go down
and really put the Chiefs on their and they had
to settle for two field goals. They're only up six
to nothing and it's mahomes and you're like, ah, the
end of the day, they want a really close game
by three points, and they took both those field goals
at the beginning. Like you do that sometimes, even if

(02:02:10):
it sucks that you didn't get the.

Speaker 1 (02:02:11):
Last year when you had an elite offensive lineup, Yeah,
you go okay. You know Ben Johnson had the best
play drawn up. You go, okay, I trust that play.
And Siriani isn't any smarter that moron, Like that. I mean,
I don't know what he was doing that That one
was like the decision to go for it. I mean
he almost single handley gave the Lions one more team
they were dying to let us back into the It

(02:02:32):
was crazy, couch on fire, a Lion's loss on all
three levels, the GM Philly making a trade deadline move
that impacts this game. To Campbell, everything that we've liked
about him went wrong and GoF the type of game
that Graham always assures us will keep us from a
super Bowl. And Bonus is alway isn't done yet. Amazing class.

Speaker 4 (02:02:53):
It was a depressing game because it was it was
everything you worry about with Dan Campbell in the fourth downs.
It was the worst of Jared Goff and it was
a team that made the move. Yeah, you're right, it was.
It was about That's why Jason said it was like
the third worst Lions game vibe that he's felt.

Speaker 1 (02:03:07):
And then he went to ninety five and I was like, no, yeah,
it's come on, Dan Campbell era at least blowboner next.
I stand by the Lion's biggest mistake was hitching their
wagon to golf. Everything around him has to be perfect.
In order to be successful, and this offense is a
shell of last year's team. I'd rather punch myself in
the dick than watch any more shit offensive line play

(02:03:28):
Saturday through Sunday.

Speaker 4 (02:03:30):
Well, Michigan State doesn't help. So you're like an MSU
fan is also a Lions fan. Just the whole mood
is like, man, just punch your dick. Yeah, it's not great.
The I what were you going to do other than
golf though? When he became now, I think initially they
thought they were gonna have to draft somebody, but then
all of a sudden they tried had and Hooker. Well yeah,
but that was third rounder. Yeah, but they didn't spend
like a first round. They didn't go up and get somebody,
you know. And I think it's just hard to get

(02:03:52):
these guys too, Like when you look at the other
cast offs that they could have gotten, like of the
Sam Darnold types, right, the what's the guy in the Colts?
Not Peyton Manning, but who's the archcheaster former Giants quarterback
Jeff George f Daniel Jones Daniels. Does those sort of
guys there's risk in that and they may have limitations too.

(02:04:13):
I don't have a problem with Jared Goff's limitations. I
don't have a problem with Jared Golf as a quarterback.
My problem with Jared Goff is the quarterback is that
he's paid like he doesn't have limitations and that that
limits the rest of the team and I hate that setup.
Is a in the NFL like Jared Goff shouldn't There
should be a cap on that guy that he's making
at least twenty five percent less than the top quarterback

(02:04:35):
in the.

Speaker 1 (02:04:35):
NFL NICHE class next number one. MSU has always had
an instability problem. Now money is spent on sanctions, Tucker
and cozenin Cozen, MSU doesn't need to throw more money
away by paying off Smith and paying for a new
coach his buy out in the search for Plus, MSU
isn't winning next year anyway. Two. MSU doesn't need more chaos,

(02:04:58):
chaos with unproven leadersh you're one ad year two president
and Donor relationships not repaired, taken with the massive expenditures
and sanctions of firing and hiring cycle will likely lead
to another dumpster fire. Keep Smith for one more year.

Speaker 4 (02:05:13):
So if you could paint it, and I respect the
opinion So what my question would be then is if
you do that, how does that put you in a
better spot a year from now? If you are if
you could tell me that Michigan State is in a
better place as a football program three years from now,
five years from now by keeping Smith for one more year,
whether he works out or not, then there is that
argument to make. Now, it's a hard sell this year,

(02:05:35):
and it's a hard sell to see how the next
year gets better other than maybe they just happen to
develop at the right time and maybe he just needed
one more year and all that. But like unless you
can really point to and say, and there's a real
risk in that this gets better by punting on this,
by letting him have another year, by letting us get
some more ducks in a row.

Speaker 1 (02:05:56):
Like I think you risk people stop carrying now, Yeah,
there's no way. I mean, look it now, like no
one wants to watch the Penn State game. You're telling
me that we have to spend an off season talking
about this mfor and then sit through a whole season
and all these press conferences like get out of here,
move on, you have to This is a special circumstance.

Speaker 4 (02:06:14):
If you can go get Pat Fitzgerald. Today, you're telling
me that you sh a big boy program. Fucking move
on and start new. Stop talking about bringing this guy back.
You can't talk about this MF for anymore after this year.
You just can't. I'm losing my shit. I think I've
read too many of these. It's like, what are we
talking about? Why would you want to bring this guy
back and see him next year? You're gonna watch every
game next year if he coaches. Get out of here.

(02:06:36):
I don't believe you. Sick of these people, you per
Carl Jonathan's it's hot here.

Speaker 1 (02:06:41):
I'm sorry. Jonathan Smith and Meltucker are truly awful. Oh
to nine, where's two years stretch in regular season history
at thirty three point three percent and also the Big
Ten sixteen point six percent combined with tucker third worst
four year run I love numbers at thirty five point
four percent and by far four year Big Ten and
run out fucking Christ twenty two point two percent.

Speaker 4 (02:07:02):
You will be happy to know that I cut out
like eighty percent of the numbers for this one, youper.
I appreciate you. I knew Jason was gonna go nuts
on this one. Yeah, you fucking did it's that. Oh god, yeah, no,
it's not. It's not it's not great.

Speaker 1 (02:07:15):
It's not great. That's it. Well, I don't read all
those numbers. I don't. Sorry, you got to convince people
that they should have Smith back next year, neurotic pants
number one. Just because you don't have to doesn't mean
you should. Smith should promise to resign at the end
of the year. He's never outlined the terms of his accountability.
How much time were we supposed to give him, what
were we supposed to expect? And he's not a bad

(02:07:38):
old coach, but the game changed. Two. It will get
to the point where for every fourth ice cream purchase
from the dairy store, you'll get a free MSU ticket.
Resale websites will sell MSU tickets for seven dollars out
the door. Youngstown State will become the most attended game
of the year because most of the time the Spartans
can win that.

Speaker 4 (02:07:57):
Well, the the danger next year this is that people
there's this apathy, there's that you lose money on the
gates to the degree that this is not and and
there is a scenario where in the off season would
be just a hard sell, like I can't imagine you know,
I mean, nobody's going to listen to anything that's said
in the spring practice like, yeah, we're a lot better

(02:08:18):
you really because I thought they were going to be
better this past spring, right, And and so it's it's
a boy a cried wolf thing. At this point, you
would just have to show up and do it next
season with everybody knowing. If you didn't do it, you'd
be gone. Like I don't like, I just don't see it.
I just don't see it. And and the fact that
Jay Smith j Smith, the fact that Jay Batt has
been silent on this with no not a single supportive

(02:08:42):
word of of Jonathan Smith. Like that to me, he
tells me, But that tells me everything. He's not lying
at least he doesn't want it. He's been asked and
he's not. He's not going to comment publicly. That tells
you everything, Right. I think Jonathan Smith is a good man.
I mean, and apparently they meet all the time, and
I would love to hear those conversations.

Speaker 1 (02:09:02):
Such a lie that's his first lie, Nesley's quick hotel.
Sports just aren't fun at least football isn't. MSU is
not even halfway into this Bowl ass streak. They won't
make a postseason until the twenty thirties and the Lions
windows closed. Basically, it's two thousand, two thousand and four,
and that's where we're at.

Speaker 4 (02:09:21):
I love two thousand and four. I was twenty four,
felt great whole life. In fun of me, I would
go back to two thousand and four and a heartbeat.

Speaker 1 (02:09:27):
We're never two hundred and eighty seven pounds yet I was.
I was no good there, Susie Merchant with a heart attack.
It was in good shape. Susie Merchant didn't have a
heart attack yet. It was it was all, it was all,
It was all good. She's having the heart attack. Well
when she looks at me as yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:09:42):
Yeah, I don't. We don't have enough time for all
of that.

Speaker 1 (02:09:45):
That's the wrong one to play, Big John Hog. Number one,
sports are frustrating, but at the end of the day,
it's not the worst thing. And too football team is
going to go winless in Big Ten play for the
first time in program history. No take there, just a
statement of fact. And three, we all appreciate you both.
Thanks for bringing levity to all of this shit. So
what we do, love it?

Speaker 4 (02:10:06):
That's our thing, dude, The second point is important though,
the idea that they could go winless in the Big
Ten and have not done that in the program before.
I you know, I remember when who was the coach?
Who is the Lions coach? Went Owen sixteen, bald guy,
big Calves. When he was when he was fired, he said, uh,

(02:10:36):
you know, he just wasn't surprised. He goes, you can't go.
I mean it was only his first year, but he's like,
you can't go own sixteen. You know, he got it.
He understood, like you cannot go.

Speaker 1 (02:10:44):
But there was certain things. There's certain times where you
just there's nothing you can say to get out of right.

Speaker 4 (02:10:49):
Right in sixteen, a certain point that the record is
is just too much to overde.

Speaker 1 (02:10:53):
Right, Jarrett, Michigan State football will win another Big Ten
championship before the Lions reached the Super Bowl. Well, I
don't like that. No, no, no, it's not good, Jared.
I don't like your take. I don't like it, sir, Jared.
I mean, here's we could have left that one. There's
a chance it could hapen. Because Michigan takeuld win a
Big Ten championship in five years, the world to be
totally different and that means the Lions didn't get it
done with this Jesus, I don't have any I don't

(02:11:16):
have all of these plans. Like, what are we talking about?
Nick Gandhi wasn't upset about the Lions losing until that
pass interference call? What a joke? You weren't upset? Okay,
Bonus meant to get this last week. But Big ten
plus is not ass o countertake love. It was able
to watch MSU Colgate the other week in India as

(02:11:37):
it was the only streaming platform not GEO restricted.

Speaker 4 (02:11:41):
Not they should tell people that, Yeah, I'm sorry, Nick,
there are I will say this if you the.

Speaker 1 (02:11:49):
Only time it's not ass is when you're in India,
or you.

Speaker 4 (02:11:51):
Enjoy other sports like you can see a lot of
women's basketball, a lot of a lot of volleyball, gymnastics,
a lot of things are on Big ten Plus. So
if you are somebody who enjoys not just men's basketball.

Speaker 1 (02:12:01):
They sponsor, what are you doing. I'm just trying to
save the ship their ass. It's okay. If you want
to use it, Nick, go for it. You don't have
to give it a whole promo. Is it? Are they
with infinity? I mean what are you doing? And by
the way, Nick, you weren't upset until the Passinger fearance call.
The oh game sucked? It was depressing and ship anyway,
Mark V. Two verse Haiku Spartan's fall again. Seven wounds

(02:12:25):
two more remain. Jay batt sits silent leaves fall like
our hopes, Spartan fans suffer. The pain is a please
save us? Well done, Mark V. Well done, Marcia, it's uh,
it's good Haikus. Seven wounds two more remain. Thank god
the edible kicked in for that one. Yes, Jesus, you
know who's probably not going to Iowa this week? This guy?

(02:12:48):
This guy me? Why not?

Speaker 4 (02:12:50):
Because what am I gonna write? I mean, I just
I keep I'm rinning variations. Now I've been able to
write something different as a main column. But like they're
gonna go get hammered. There's men's basketball game Friday night,
there's potentially a women's soccer You're just telling Nick Marsha
to do his job. I'm doing my job. I'm covering
other things. Oh and I'm still gonna do quick takes.

Speaker 1 (02:13:08):
I won't. I won't.

Speaker 4 (02:13:08):
I won't bail on quick takes. Be from Afar not
quite as good, but still I'm not gonna bail on that.

Speaker 1 (02:13:12):
But it's just like what you're still kind of alligator
arming it am I yeah, if you're gonna give Nick
marshit like no offense. And the worst part is you go,
guess who's not going to Iowa? This guy that was
the douche like, I couldn't I hate you more? I
suck this guy. People love when people do that. Scotti
Green's El Camino. It's so hot in here. This seems

(02:13:35):
like rock bottom for MSU football, so depressing. You know
what isn't the hockey team Nightingales, uh, Dentingale, ding Gils.
Nightingale has built an absolute wagon. I'd love a column
really digging into why why is it? His coaching, recruiting,
relationships with junior hockey, his pass as a player, and bonus.
So let me get this straight. Couch, you weren't feeling

(02:13:56):
good Thursday. You cancel the show. We were all begging
for to do a three hour pod with Solari instead, Jason, Sorry, bro,
being sloppy seconds isn't fair. You deserve better. Can't wait
for cancel Couch to strike again.

Speaker 4 (02:14:11):
It was not a three hour pod. I would I
would have. I would I would have been copying my
ass off by the time we did this. But the
to the first to the first one, uh, to the
hockey it is a good I've done parts of this column,
but I think it is at some point a deeper
examination because I think it's a lot of things. One,
it started with his relationships, you know, with the National
Development Program and those guys and Trey Augustine, you know,

(02:14:35):
giving that foundational recruit right away and guys wanting to
play with him. And that's what Danton Cole didn't have
when he came over from that same program. It's hiring
two guys you didn't know who were recommended and understanding
that you needed guys in the college game, and getting
two great assistant coaches. It's Will Morlocke, the guy who's
just really really revered as a strength conditioning guy. But
they had to go lure in and trains the NHL

(02:14:57):
guys and all that stuff. Uh, and and then and
so there's some momentum that way. It's coaching all that,
and then it's uh, you know, it's a great staff
and it's momentum, and then it's it's just it's really
good coaching is what it is, and then you're getting
talent now. And it's one of the great turnarounds I've
seen in it, given how long I thought it was
going to take based on what I was told by
an Astes and Cole and all those guys over the years.

(02:15:19):
It's pretty remarkable. And by the way, Couch was sick.

Speaker 1 (02:15:21):
But you know, there's other things that go on with
the show, because this show is kind of like a
business and it is just Graham and I and with
the Huard, so sometimes things go on behind the scenes,
no big deal. But it wasn't just because Graham was sick.
I feel like we should be honest with it. Was
partly I'm not sure I could have gotten through the show.
I understand that, but I want to be honest with
the people to get into it. But you know, Clint
won Balbany number one, thirty million dollars five, three separate times.

(02:15:46):
Catches are suspending, three separate times. Catches are suspending over
to a two year span, destroying evidence, among so many
other things. But no vacated wins to hire Max Bulla.
We'll get him on the cheap. Besides, no one else
will come to put out this dumpster fire the next
five years.

Speaker 4 (02:16:05):
Yeah, I mean below would win the press conference. And
I'm not saying you won, I just again, and maybe
he would be ready for that. And there are certain
guys or could. And I'm not saying he's not an
uber talented coach who I think at some point will
be a great head coach. It's it's just, you know,
his jobs at this point have been GA and linebackers coach,

(02:16:25):
not yet a coordinator. He's very young, and you know,
he is a name and you know, and I get
he gets Michigan State, but can he do something about it?

Speaker 1 (02:16:34):
Like that's the question.

Speaker 4 (02:16:35):
He may know what it needs to look like, but
you need somebody who can then do something about it.
And and maybe he could, I'm not you know, I
think if you could have Max bull as part of
your program, that next step for him as a defensive coordinator,
probably that would be a really, really good get.

Speaker 1 (02:16:51):
I just don't know.

Speaker 4 (02:16:52):
And again, if whoever they hire and people got to
get behind and maybe he'd be one of the exceptions
and they and I'm not saying he wouldn't deserve it
interview frankly, because he is Max Bullet and he is
an impressive guy, but just you know, I think they
got to be. You gotta be a little wary of
somebody who's that young and that untested. Uh in the
head coach rule.

Speaker 1 (02:17:10):
And you can give the guy an interview because he's
a former Michigan state guy as well, right, give him
some as yeah and reps getting an interview.

Speaker 4 (02:17:17):
And maybe you hear in the interview. This is why
you let interviews do the work, you know, And I
mean sure you'd interview well, but you may also hear
something you'd want very specific answers for how he would
build an organization because he has been around Saban and
he's been in a Notre dame now and you know
he's you know, so he's not that he doesn't have
some some reference points and some good people he's worked for.

Speaker 1 (02:17:35):
Izzo's no longer got to go Number one. The n
C double A apparently isn't feckless or MSCU was just
eternally their whipping boy, And to fuck the nc double A,
fuck tucker, fuck scum. Fuck this entitled sport which only
cares about ten or so golden children children programs, and
three I won't ever care nearly as much about this crooked,

(02:17:56):
crooked sport ever again and from CW, fuck Michigan State
football and fuck the Lions.

Speaker 4 (02:18:02):
I feel like there's a lot of people need to
get that off their chest. Yeah, this past week, a
lot of people feel differently about the sport than they
did before. It'll be interesting to see if that, Like,
if miss football gets good again, do you feel as
connected as you ever did.

Speaker 1 (02:18:14):
I've already changed how I feel about the sport. I'm
excited for the playoff, but I got to say on Saturdays,
you know, I do check out some games, but I'm
not sitting there on a full Saturday like I used
to anymore. I think that's a problem for college It
really is because I'm the diehard guy Jay Riemans Schneider.
Before the proliferation of sports talk, internet post posts and gambling,

(02:18:36):
sports were so much simpler. Just win didn't really matter
by how much or how they looked to. Just win.
Now it's year long angst about the roster, fire, the
coach for one bad call and god forbid, you don't
cover a spread and bonus, Michigan could beat Ohio State
and make the College Football Player Playoff and still my

(02:18:57):
interest in Michigan basketball is so much more than football
that it isn't even comparable. The gap is so wide
it's strange even for me.

Speaker 4 (02:19:05):
You are the exception, Jay, and I respect that. I
think Michigan basketball has got a team that's gonna be
a lot of fun, So I think you're gonna have
a good winter.

Speaker 1 (02:19:11):
But Jay, you realized there was gambling like way before
and people are really I mean just because apps are
popular now, there was a lot. There was a lot,
but gambling was before it was legal. It was. It
was really big. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 5 (02:19:25):
It was.

Speaker 4 (02:19:26):
It wasn't quite as as talked about, but it was.
It was already paying coach of salaries because the eyeballs
and the like maction. The whole point of like maction
right the midweek games in the MAC that was created
by people betting on games. That's why the audience isn't.

Speaker 1 (02:19:41):
You don't have any Gonzaga San Francisco games I bet
on in two thousand and four, two thousand and five,
two thousand and six at midnight staring at TV. Yeah,
Colin Chapman, can you get mad Dog on the show
to get his opinion on MSU football? Fuck? No, we
do The Mad Dog Terry Denbo episode. All Right, I'm

(02:20:01):
ben one hundred mgs. He's gonna have to drive me
TC Bruns number one. Look, Hondo is no underwear model,
but I didn't dare glance at MSU football this weekend.
Two listen, Hondo may not be a merchant of truth,
but next year MSU hoops could be special. And three, hey,
Hondo may not be beat Solari in a foot race,

(02:20:22):
but MSU hockey is a must watch TV A.

Speaker 4 (02:20:25):
Lot of Honda. I don't really know what we're going
with Hondo here, but uh, is this a different Haikuchleman. Yeah,
I don't think so, Hondo, I mean the talk anyway,
Maybe we do a Hondu Hondo Yeah, Terry Hondo Mad
Dog Terry Denbo episode.

Speaker 1 (02:20:40):
By the way, I got a little update on Hondo.
I was told because apparently he does this like lancing
interview on a radio show here, and while he was
doing the interview, someone came up and asked him for
an autograph for real. Or he's planning a plant, right,
it's a plant, I mean, but he set it up too. No,
that's that trying this lancing radio station's app wasn't so

(02:21:02):
ass I would try to get it, but you have
to like anyway.

Speaker 4 (02:21:05):
That is a story we're telling, presented by our friends
at Midtown Brewing Company. By the way, bit they've got
live music. They've got on certain nights, they've got trivia,
they've got theme trivia. Go to Midtown Brewing Company's Facebook
page can check out their menu there all the things
they have going on. They've got, like November twenty six,
they've got live music from seven to nine pm. December twentieth.
It goes on. I mean, really cool things they're doing

(02:21:27):
down here at Midtom Brewing Company in downtown Lancing.

Speaker 1 (02:21:29):
Gramm Andy to couch height take Ethan Taylor's MSU commitment
has lit a fire under Matt Painter to find an
even taller kid. Word has it. He's been braving the
cannibalistic tribes of Papau, New Guinea, given it's known to
have the tallest average height to recruit a nine foot
seventeen year old named bone Crusher, bubbub bub Basketball curse bait,

(02:21:53):
Take what kind of weed you smoke? Grammedy to couch,
we need to get together. Izzo made a monkey pause
deal to only have the firstborn son of a family
in recruiting, I e. The better fears going to Oklahoma
and then the NBA being completely out of the running
for five star Jackson Richardson and Jason Kohler going to Michigan,
et cetera. Wait, Jason Kohler's going to Michigan. What's that about?

(02:22:16):
Is that breaking news? I don't think so. Come on,
we know Jeff Cohler. We haven't heard that. Yeah, have
you heard that? The I've yeah, holding Jeff Cohler fist
bump all the time. Yeah, I'd give some uh yeah,
we don't have time to look that up right now.
But yeah, all right, Hans jerged. I think I was
doing all right? All right. Number One, the MSU women's

(02:22:39):
team needs to play against some competitive opponents. They should
finish out the football team schedule. And to Smith's decision
to go for it on fourth and eighteen in the
last minute of the game of the Penn State game,
was coaching negligence. Alessio was getting beat up and they
should have punted. And Three this past weekend, I saw
Graham rob an old woman of a donuts that tracks.

Speaker 4 (02:22:59):
Do track if you know, I'm gonna keep your donut
out where I can see it.

Speaker 1 (02:23:02):
Man, give me the donut. Man, I'm telling you right now,
don't make me break your wrist.

Speaker 4 (02:23:08):
I would like to see the MSU women's basketball team
play a more competitive home non conference schedule. You start
to look at their road and neutral site non conference
schedule in late November December, it stiffens. It's just it's
just it's bad.

Speaker 1 (02:23:20):
Right now.

Speaker 4 (02:23:20):
It's not great, and it's hard to learn anything about them.

Speaker 1 (02:23:24):
Jay Hawkins number one, Jonathan Smith needs one more year
of development. Hell no, I'm not buying it. In this
day and age of college football, it doesn't take two
or three years of development. I think it's safe to
say that Smith regrets taking the MSU job since UCLA
and you dub came open a month after it did two.
Dan Campbell, look man, I like and respect you, and

(02:23:45):
you're the greatest thing to happen to the Lions in
a while. But learn how to balance. You don't always
have to go for it on fourth down if you
mean what you said. Learning from last night and we'll
get better. Three words for the last seven games, run
the table, and three great articles from Graham's colleague Sean
Windsor for pointing out how the n C Double A
is a two tiered justice system, and Chris Solari about

(02:24:08):
the timeline of MSU football downturn over the last decade.
Also glad that land Man is back for season two.
I love you.

Speaker 4 (02:24:17):
Jake's got one more point, He's like, I got it,
I only got three.

Speaker 1 (02:24:21):
And also I got this fucking land Man, Billy Bob Ford. Amazing.
There we go.

Speaker 4 (02:24:26):
I never heard of windsor salary, but they all check.
I'll check out their work. I'll look them up. It
sounds that sounds good.

Speaker 1 (02:24:32):
Upper deck jerk guy. To get us out of here,
Michigan State should negotiate, much like they did with the
n C Double A, a deal where Smith gets some
of his buyout and that covers some of his salary
to return to his alma mater to coach and bonus.
Jared Goff may be an indoor cat that is the fear,
or at least a nice weather I got Sai. I'd
rather have Spot last night, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (02:24:52):
Yeah, we had a little little drama Spots Owner where
oh yeah, we're telling that what just listen to the podcast. So, yeah,
I went outside the other day to uh to check
the mail at the worst possible time. Spot's owner was
walking her dog and Spot likes to follow them on
their walks, and was like walking with them around the

(02:25:12):
around the block, around the circle we live on, and
Spot sees me open the door. I had no idea
they're out there and just blines it for our house,
like the worch just ruined their walk and like just
I texted the owner. I was like, I'm sorry about that,
and she was I could tell she was bummed. And
so we're trying to wean off Spot a little bit
on our house, like a little less Spot, you know,
just not just so Spot understands it.

Speaker 1 (02:25:33):
Is the weirdest neighborhood I've ever heard of.

Speaker 4 (02:25:35):
We need Spot to understand that we like Spot visiting,
but we're not Spots home.

Speaker 1 (02:25:39):
He's a cat. He doesn't fucking have any idea what's happening.
I know, I know, I know it's not it's not
story we're telling. Nobody ruin coming. Wait wait till the end
of the show two hours and twenty five minutes. That
was like the best dude, screw the Michigan State stuff
we could have talked about Spot. Wait wait, so Spot,
So the owner's mad that you ruined their walk, not

(02:25:59):
that it can't into your house. That you so you
weren't hiding the fact that you steal their cat. Well,
she kind of not.

Speaker 4 (02:26:04):
I just think it was it bummed her out that like,
Spot doesn't realize where her or where his home actually is.

Speaker 1 (02:26:09):
So this owner, original owner does has no idea how
much time Spot to.

Speaker 4 (02:26:15):
The degree correct knows the Spot comes over, but I
don't know the degree.

Speaker 1 (02:26:18):
Yeah, does this person know that you change the name
of the cat?

Speaker 4 (02:26:22):
Well, probably now because I accidentally let slip once to
another neighbor who talks to Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:26:28):
This is so wild. You change the name of a cat,
and now you're hot. I thought this was all in
the up and up. Well it is. I mean we
we didn't change it, not dude. This owner, the owner,
the lady that owned the cat first, is now mad
at you.

Speaker 4 (02:26:39):
Hey, if you'd want an indoor cat, keep your freaking
cat indoors, man, Like, that's all I gotta say. You
let the cat run wild. The cat's going to find
a new place. We didn't know whose cat it was originally,
That's why we named it Spot. And it would just
come over and slowly indoctorated into our lives. We're trying
to wean spot off of us a little bit. That's all.
That's all. Oh my god, story we're telling of my

(02:27:01):
Midtown brewing company, and we appreciate Midtown Brewing Company. We
also appreciate our friends at Exfinity. Go to infinity dot com.
Check out the latest offerings there. Of course mobile, home
internet and of course cable, and if you bundle them
you can find the best deal if you want to
do like me and have you know, I do not
have the mobile, but I have cable and home internet.

(02:27:21):
Have the best deal I could find through them and
been very happy streaming Exfinity cable. We want to appreciate muskos.
We want to appreciate We do appreciate muskogs covering up
my man boobs, my six chins, just making me look
the best I can, as comfortable as I can. I'm
telling you the quality I got to tell this story.
I'll tell it again some of the time. But I

(02:27:42):
had a nurse at a doctor's appointment talk about my
flannel the other day without me prompting it, Like WHOA,
where do you get this? This is incredible? You can
have a hot nurse say that to you as well.
Muscox Flannels go Muscox dot com. We'll be back later
this week. Good jow Man.