Ep. 1094: Pat Fitzgerald arrives at MSU with vigor and MSU basketball keeps rolling

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Way ways about bay.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Uh huh.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Oh oh.

Speaker 4 (01:35):
Now what do you get when you cross a no

(01:57):
it all newspaper columnist with an awkward, unsophisticated every man.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, well, I'm just not sure about.

Speaker 5 (02:08):
That right now.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Welcome to Couch and the Room.

Speaker 6 (02:21):
Welcome to Couch in the Room. Our Wednesday show presented
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three and Casting Company's private room now available for reservations. Jason,
how you doing, brother? I mean I felt all of
fred humans.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
The American way, except America has gotten soft.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
Pull out there, play hard, stick your cleathes so far
up their asses that they've got to.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Use the pleas to brush your teeth with.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
What's up, buddy, how's it going? They should have used
LATS last night too. It should have been LATS and
then LATS introduced Fitzgerald and hmm. Crowd would have exploded.

Speaker 6 (03:32):
My goodness. If LATS, people would have been confused. But
I would have exploded.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
I would.

Speaker 6 (03:36):
It would have been amazing you talk about me. People
would have been confused. People know lats, dude. I would
have stood up and applauded, just like I'll applaud Alan
Haller years from now.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
It would have been my who would get more applause?
Chad Lats or Alan Haller right now?

Speaker 6 (03:50):
Would be Chad Lats probably, yeah, absolutely, but you know,
shout out Chad.

Speaker 5 (03:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Man, what a day yesterday? How are you feeling? I
didn't hear you on the microphone yesterday. I was listening
to the press conference. Are watching it? I should say?

Speaker 6 (04:01):
Yeah, So when we talked about this on Monday. I
am not a huge fan of that setting. It was
actually better than I thought. I liked their They don't
do it at bresident anymore. They do it over the
football facility, at least for the football ones. And it
wasn't so bad. And but there is a separate press conference,
not press conference, but press availability where we all stood

(04:22):
around Pat Fitzgerald for like twenty twenty five minutes after
that and that gang bang they call it the gang bang. Yeah,
and that's where we got better questions and that better
question all of Fred humans where you feel all of
Fred human? Good answers, Yes, you do feel all of
Fred human. That's where that's where those happen.

Speaker 3 (04:36):
I like Freddie. He was up first. He's like, oh,
I wasn't expecting to go first here. It's just a man.
I love watching those things. I'm glad I don't have
to go to them because I can understand what you're saying.
But watching it on TV, it's absolutely fascinating with the
three guys guss up there. Bat So what were Gerald?
It was awesome? What were your impressions? What were your impressions?
Obviously you knew he was going to come and win.

(04:56):
The press conference. He was going to give his coach speak.
He's a natural at that. I thought it was I
thought it was what it was. I mean, the pomp
and circumstance of it is kind of ridiculous. And it
did feel it gave a vibe of like Jonathan Smith,
like a funeral. Like it was kind of like if
you didn't know and just were plucked out in front
of the TV and said, I need you to watch
this and give me give me your first thought. Your

(05:18):
first thought would be like, did this Jonathan Smith guy
pass away? Or what did we do here? Because it
was everybody. I get you have to do that, but
it's just like I hope that after today's show, can
we just move on, like we have to say Jonathan
Smith's a good guy and all YadA YadA. It's like,
you know he was wronged, and well did. He had
a great column, but it's just like I you know,
you read it and it's like, all right, we get it.
He was wrong. He's getting thirty mil aw shucks, get

(05:40):
the fuck out of here. Let's start off, you know
what I mean. So it was just the repetitiveness of
that yesterday. I was all right, yeah, and I think
you don't have to do that.

Speaker 6 (05:48):
By the way, there are a lot of times where
people act like the previous coach did not exist. That
that happens two in these things.

Speaker 3 (05:53):
Sure so.

Speaker 6 (05:53):
And one of the things I thought was deeper about
sort of the regret for the Jonathan Smith era and
understanding that too years probably isn't enough usually and you
don't want to get in that cycle and all that stuff.
I thought it spoke to, Yeah, they like Jonathan Smith personally.
We've done the good guy stuff. You know, you get
that he's a class guy and he represented the university well.
So people feel bad in that sense. But I also

(06:14):
think the regret is there is an understanding that what
was provided to him won't cut it. And that's part
of where that's layered. And that's an important thing. But
doesn't it shock you that Michigan State the university thought
that's what could cut it well. But some of its timing.
Some of it's you know, Kevin Guskowitz isn't even in
place yet as the president when he's hired, and then.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
You can say it's a bad timing thing for Smith too.
Oh yeah, more than a bad timing whole thing around
and he wasn't a fit and I think at the
end he knew it. It was interesting Tom Izzo in
his press conference after the Michigan State Iowa basketball game,
which we're going to talk about as well, and we're
also going to have Shawn windsor on in a little
bit to talk about all this as well, don't coach

(06:57):
my team.

Speaker 6 (06:58):
But you could tell ISO, like early on when ISO
was supportive of Jonathan Smith. I didn't want to say
it was insincere. I don't believe that. But Tom Izeau
is a little bit of the boy of cried Wolf
when it comes to supporting coaches, right. I mean, every
losing coach in the history of Big ten basketball has
been lobbied for by Tom Izzol. You know, can't fire
that guy. Got a raw deal that and so you know,

(07:20):
I took it with a grain of salt. But to
see how it impacted izz oh still yesterday, I do
think those feelings to some degree, not whether he thought
that Jonathan Smith should still be around. He said directly,
we did what we had to do right, so that
part of things was true. But he's also said that

(07:43):
Jonathan Smith and he had a conversation and he thought
it was cool what Jonathan Smith said to him. In
my sense from that conversation, and I don't have this
directly on record, but Jonathan Smith sort of understands that
he didn't get it done and that the fit wasn't perfect.
I mean, Jonathan's not a moron. That I mean, he
doesn't He's not a great communicator, and that's one of
the big differences between him and Patitgerald. But he's not

(08:06):
an idiot. And how many morons get paid thirty mili
to go away correct or rise to that level in
the profession period and run a program. But the fit
everybody understood wasn't there, and the fit with Pat Fitzgerald
appears to be there. Now what that translates to on
the field, we don't know. But if you start with fit,
and you start with support and resources, which he's been

(08:26):
told he'll get, and we'll see what that looks like,
and we'll see what his staff looks like, and you know, look,
there's a lot that's still to prove, But when you
start with fit and being able to rally a fan
base and engage people the way he can, it's just
a better place to start from. He speaks the language
of if there was such thing as spartan ease, he
speaks it and he didn't have to like fake it
or anything like that. Like you know, he spoke into

(08:49):
the Michigan rivalry. He without even being prompted or more.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
In one halftime speech than Jonathan Smith did in two years. Yeah, Colin,
there you go. I mean, come on, he was. It's
just what that's what. And that's the other issue I
have with the university though. It's like Haller when we
talked about it Monday of like what did they talk
about in the initial meeting with Smith and Haller? Because
I'm sorry, you just need there's no way that has

(09:15):
to have that that the halftime speech that Fitzgerald gave
that that is exactly what you have to do to
win a fan base over And I understand if you
don't have a personality and by well as shucks, then
guess what. You don't get this amount of money from
a university to coach your football team. I'm sorry if
you don't have the it's what comes with being a
football coach is having a personality and the fact that
we just oh, you know, he's a good football mind,

(09:36):
but he just doesn't know, you have to have the
complete package if you're gonna get some of these these contracts.
And I don't know, especially the way football is now,
you just can't be a dud. It's impossible to start,
especially where Fitzgerald's starting from. Right now. There's no way
they could have hired another guy with Jonathan Smith's personality
to come in here.

Speaker 6 (09:54):
No in zero and I have sort of changed my
tune on Fit a little bit. I always thought Fit
was nice, yes, but I didn't know to what degree.
And watching the contrast between Jonathan Smith and Pat Fitzgerald.
In the contrast not just in their ability as orators
and their passion and all that stuff outwardly, I'm talking
fit in terms of big ten blueprint. A guy who

(10:15):
coming right away and is not like learning about the
rivalry and talking about that, is more like I'm in it,
you know.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Here we go.

Speaker 6 (10:22):
Yeah, I get time to wait for him to just
get into a groove with the rivalry. And I'm sure
he did some research. But he's also somebody like this guy.
This guy's been around, he was coaching, He coached as
a head coach at Northwestern. He's only fifty one, but
he coaches a head coach at Northwestern against John L.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Smith.

Speaker 6 (10:39):
That's how long he's been around against the other Jonathan Smith.
And he played for Northwestern in Spartan Stadium. Don't say Necrol, No,
don't against George Perlis and against Nick saman So. Like
the guy is just you know, in other words, his
familiarity with Michigan State, and obviously there's eleven games against
Mark D'Antonio and all that stuff is just it runs deep.

(11:01):
And D'Antonio is showed a statement today. I thought it
was the Other thing I was impressed with was the
way he hit the ground running with recruiting and the
way he embraced the recruits that were already recruited by
the previous staff and trying to get to me. And
you don't have another choice of your him, like this
won't be part of this won't be his class who

(11:24):
he gets in the transfer portal, and any late signings
will be and there might be there are gonna be
a couple guys today that it will flip or come
over there that are his guys. But you are and
he kept said very complimentary things about the previous class.
You are trusting in their evaluations. A little bit and
because you need those guys, you can't have nobody. You
can't be you can't be Penn State without a coach
right now on signing day, it's a bad situation.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Now you believe where Penn State is. I mean before
the season they were minus two ninety to just make
the College Football Playoff and now they don't have a
coach and they're just a laughing stock. As Brian Hartline
goes to South Florida, I can't imagine what they paid
him to go there.

Speaker 6 (12:00):
They got to go get Matt Campbell. Now I think
that's what you and but you're gonna have to overpay
and that's the problem. And that's another thing Michigan State
didn't do in this situation. If you look at Pat
Fitzgerald's contract, it's very sensible relative to the contracts that
are happening now. It's it's like a four million base
but really five million promised a year, which is like
half of what the you know, the higher contracts are
right now with a lot of incentives, which that's.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Where it should be for a guy that always you know,
left Northwestern at an interesting spot, had a lawsuit that
he took time off from so yes, I mean that
is kind of where a guy like that should be
probably should.

Speaker 6 (12:33):
Be like that for everybody, right, I mean the idea that,
the idea that because it's not like these are lofty things. Hey,
he gets another five hundred grand if he wins a
national championship. Al Right, Well he's not going to see
that probably, or it's going to take a while. It's like,
you win six games, it's this, seven games, it's this
eight games, it's this. So as you're as you're winning
more games, as you're proving yourself as a coach and
proving you can resurrect the program, you're getting consated like

(12:54):
one of the better coaches. And I think that's a
great start.

Speaker 3 (12:57):
The bonus is at nine wins. I don't know if
we had started at six for getting bonuses for that.
But by the way, I was watching fitz Dog, you know,
on the sidelines, sitting I'm going fitz Dog. Yeah why not?

Speaker 5 (13:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (13:09):
Yeah, you know, I know you can't do that. By
the way, any media members say go white when he
said go green, I don't think I looked around. That
was my thing. When I was watching the press conference yesterday,
I was He's like go green. I was like, I
would totally be just spinning around as soon as there's
a pep band. I don't want to ask a question.
I just like slump over him, like I don't have
to be constantly constantly looking at couch for his reaction

(13:29):
on certain things. I almost want to go to these
just for the people watching things, and you don't. But anyway,
I was watching Fitz dogs on the sideline on his phone.
It's like, you know, maybe he should believe at halftime
he got to hit the ground running here. I mean,
that's enough basketball to see for fits right, didn't believe it.
I don't know. No, I think he stayed for the
whole Maybe he did. He I know he left the
court at halftime. I didn't. Wasn't the second I was.
I was pounding the bushes. I was crushing phones while

(13:51):
during that game. You know, shout out to tom Izzo
and Michigan stayed basketball for making that game a boring game.

Speaker 6 (13:57):
Ain't no, baby, that's the type of boring game. Like
I think a lot of Michian say fans will take well.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
You know twenty I mean, Iowa was you know Kirk
Farns offense. You know, so it's like basketball, you know,
you dive into your phone a little bit more and
see what's going on. And I don't know, the whole
thing was fascinating yesterday.

Speaker 6 (14:14):
It was a couple other notes. You saw Alessio Michigan
State starting quarterback there at the presser comes in, Uh,
you know, right around the time that Pat Fitzgerald does,
which I think is an important like we don't know
what he's going to become as a college quarterback entirely,
but it is nice for Fitzgerald and nice for that

(14:37):
next team not to start with zero at quarterback or
not knowing where that's going to be right and now.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
And he showed toughness. Yeah, I mean that's the thing
you want to start with with a quarterback.

Speaker 6 (14:46):
And he's a suburban Chicago guy who's played against you know,
his dad has coached against Fitzgerald's son's programs where he's
been helping out. I mean, there's a lot of but
you never know what that connection is and what that
relationship is, and it appears that it's a decent one.
And now you focus on the line ofrimage and that's
what you have to retain the young guys in the
line of scrimmage. Who you think you have promise and
work like hell to bring some others in and everything

(15:08):
else will take start.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
From the inside out. Boys.

Speaker 6 (15:10):
Yeah, and the football speak yesterday, he speaks that he
speaks that language. We'll talk more about this with with
Shawn windsor uh in a little bit here. Want to
talk to some mshy basketball as well. Here I was
that was a better win than I think people realize.
They got Iowa at a good time, and they've caught

(15:31):
a couple teams at a good time. They got Kentucky
at a good time like that, and I think is
Ow knows that, and I think one of the things
he talked about in his post game was like they're
at a place with some returning guys where they're a
little further along there maybe some teams that are going
to grow into the season. So they've got to keep
growing because some teams are gonna are gonna beat a
little different but they don't play Iowa again. And so
you played them. Once you beat them, they were on

(15:52):
the schedule. Now you were ready for Iowa was seven
and zero. Iowad wins over Xavier and Old Miss, and
Old Miss was a top fifty Ken Palm team. I mean,
people are familiar with that program. A Michigan State just
played them in the Sweet sixteen last year. What was
interesting that I didn't quite realize with Iowa is I
knew the way they looked at I knew, you know, Starts,
the point guard is phenomenal. He's a guy that is
on NBA radars and Fears did a great job on him.

(16:15):
And one of the things that's also clear is if
you're a program that doesn't have multiple options against Michigan
State's defense, you're in trouble. But they also don't have
There is a toughness and they're just the matchup in
the paint. They just didn't match up against MSU. And
one thing I've written before and I'll continue to write,

(16:36):
and this is one of the best things about this
MSU basketball team. If you do not have if you
do not start by matching their toughness and being able
to handle their physicality, you have no chance. I mean,
obviously you could have a day. You see the way
Iowa shoots the three, they shoot a ton of them,
they shoot them from deep. You can have a day
where everything falls, especially at home or something, and that
looks different. I'm not saying that's a ten out of
ten result, but for the most part, that result would

(16:58):
carry every time because that matchup, would you know, it
just Michigan State had too much. And what I was
impressed by MSU though, is this is a different style
than they face. Man, that was a deliberate offense. Right,
They wait late in the clock to do anything. So
it is nine to nine at one point. It's a
hard game for Cohen car because there just isn't aren't
fast breaks and transition the way he usually gets into

(17:20):
a game. And yet from like the final three minutes
of the first half through the rest of the game,
he had fifteen points and he had most of his
like he sort of figured it out, and I think
that's important for him. So I thought, I thought it
was a good win, a business like win, and an
important win with Duke ahead, that you go into that
game eight no, and you get to take your swing
and now everybody's looking at you, and you sort of

(17:41):
earn this marquee game against Duke, right, I mean, and
eighty eight.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Percent from free throw line. So is those grind free
throw sessions that kind of worked out? Listen, I want
to love Carson Cooper. I like Carson Cooper right now.
If that guy could just finish around the rim, I
swear to god, that guy would be just another level
of a guy that would be amazing. With Kohler's it's like, Carson, dude,
come on, baby. I was listening.

Speaker 6 (18:05):
I saw a tweet from Sam Vessini at The Athletic,
who does a lot of stuff with like you know,
NBA Draft and things like that, and there is some
buzz about Carson Cooper in terms of does he have
backup center ability in the NBA because of how he
defends on ball screens, you know, and you guys know
ball at a level apparently that most of us don't. Yeah,

(18:27):
and I will just have to sit back and wait.
The reason I want this to happen not just not
just for Carson. Sts are going deep. The reason I
want this to happen is if you go back and
you listen to this show like three years ago, and
he's like a freshman. My ass was talking about the
idea that there was a chance that that sort of
thing could happen for him, and I better dig that up.
I looked very credit. I looked very wrong for a

(18:48):
couple of years, and now I would love for that
to be. It does not mean I was right. You
can't wait the way you made us. Yeah, you don't
get to be right when there's an interlude for like
two years where you're very much wrong. But it would
be fine if it actually real. Ball knowers know that
Couch said it two years the holy shit, you.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Guys, the I'm seeing on the tea leaves.

Speaker 6 (19:08):
Hey, man, I'm telling you that twenty eighteen MSU football
offense it's gonna be the most prolific ever. So it
takes it takes her sometimes flying. All right, let's take
a really quick break and we come back Shawn windsor
the Detroit Free Press. We'll talk some MSU football, pat
with Jerald the Missy Basketball, Little Lions Couching. The roub
our Wednesday Show presented by our friends at Front forty
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Front forty three and Cask and Company. Very pleased now

(22:07):
to be joined by, uh, the man who's famous for
that saying around here now, the great Shawn Windsor from
the Detroit Free Press, Shawn, how you doing?

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Brother?

Speaker 5 (22:17):
Not too bad? I always good to join you, Graham.
And I love that you're given dating advice. That's uh, that's.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Nice dating advice.

Speaker 5 (22:24):
What do you mean where to go?

Speaker 3 (22:28):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (22:28):
Yeah, I caught that.

Speaker 6 (22:30):
I that well, I I am. You know, people know
me for having game with the ladies. That's sort of
been my thing, my my whole life.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Right. So that's.

Speaker 5 (22:41):
That Jason.

Speaker 6 (22:42):
No, that's that's Elizabeth. He plays my wife's laugh. She
came in here once we were doing a show.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
Uh that's not how it went. No, No, how it went.
What happened? No, she had a joke. Remember she sent you, okay,
an audio joke to text, and then you texted me
and I threw it.

Speaker 6 (22:58):
Oh that's right, that's it was not from She also
showed up her drunk ones and we I panicked and
we ended the show immediately. She was downtown I think
at Midtown Brewing Company with with a friend and yeah, anyway.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
So there's there's that.

Speaker 6 (23:11):
Once she listens to the show, the whole show ends,
and the other day she caught the very end of
it and it was like the worst possible time to
do it too, So that usually is what happens. The Uh, well,
we spent a lot of time together yesterday.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
It was good to do.

Speaker 6 (23:24):
I don't get to do that often enough. And you
wrote a good column on the Pat Fitzgerald introductory introductory
signing her introductory press conference in the beginnings for him,
give me your sort of takeaway and how you feel
about this hire after day one.

Speaker 5 (23:44):
Okay, I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you my takeaway.
But before I do that, I want to give you
and Chason, of course, and your listener is a little
bit of a little bit of insight and poe that
has to do with the blue ball. So it relates
to the column that I just wrote, the end of
what happened, how everything unfolded yesterday, so real quickly for

(24:04):
your listeners, I centered my column at least a little
bit around, as it showed intuitively, maybe not intuitively. I
mean he played at Northwest Race, familiar with the Big ten,
but just the way he referenced Michigan without actually seeing Michigan,
and he did twice, and both times when he talked
about the rivalry, he was not asked about the rivalry.

(24:25):
So that was really smart, right. So I write the
column and I can't remember what the headline was, something
about you know he did he won the day, won
the press conference, and he won on the field, and
then late last night a eleven thirty midnight or so,
I'm giving a one last look, as we do in
this day, in the age of not very many copy editors, right,

(24:45):
so you just want to make sure as much as
you came in United States. I thought, oh, you know,
why isn't you of him in the headline? Also because
he was really clever the way he did that. So
I texted my editor who was on last night, and
I said, hey, I forgot to mention this. What are
you thinking? Know what he said without giving it all
the way He said, no, no, no, no, this is
the Green Whites day and we're not going to put

(25:07):
Michigan on the headline regarding a new coach a misigan State.
We don't want to we don't want to appear like
we're trolling, even if or not. And then we had
a conversation around that. We kind of left the headline
of what it was, but I just want you and
your listeners to know we have, we actually have conversations
like that, whether a headline or not is fair in
the context of the rivalry of what's the news? Is

(25:29):
the news today? All that sort of thing. So there
you go.

Speaker 6 (25:32):
So the blue wall is crumbling, is what you're saying.

Speaker 5 (25:42):
I just I just I just thought that was funny.
And my response was to the editor of like, that's
that's totally fair, and I understand that, but I wouldn't
be we wouldn't be doing it's a free It's Fitzgerald's
the one that brought it up, right, and so I
think State fans would appreciate that he knew how to
talk about it and the way he talked about it,

(26:04):
and I thought they would like that, right, So we
kind of had it back and forth about that journalism versus,
you know, the the psyche and the feelings of the
audience and the readership that we have, if that makes sense.

Speaker 6 (26:17):
The deep stuff behind the blue wall that goes on
is fantastic. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. All right,
So give me your give me your take on on Fitzgerald.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
A lot like you, by the way, you want to
get tell him to today. Yeah, he commands the room.
He's good on his feet, he's he's got a self
deprecating a way a little bit. You know, he poke
fun in himself once or twice. I think that's always
that's always helpful. The idea that he can work different

(26:48):
rooms too. We only saw him do well, we saw
him do three of them yesterday, right, the first one
in the regular news conference with the band and the students,
the donors and a couple of trustees and the president
and all that, all the hoopla. And then with just
the media in a film room, a meeting room, football
meeting room, down the hall a little bit. And then
later with you know, however, many fifteen sixteen thousand fans

(27:09):
at the Breslan. So that tells you something, right, That
tells you something right there. Just how easy the ease
with which he was able to handle that, And obviously
the contrast with Jonathan Smith is we've all written about.
Just makes it feel for Jonathan Smith even more. That's
a separate topic, but I think that part of it.
He's got down and he's clearly won, and he wanted

(27:32):
a place that I would argue it's harder to win
than Michigan State, or at least used to be right.
I guess it's just something it depends on money now.

Speaker 6 (27:40):
But well, no, that is interesting because he brings up
at one point when we were chatting with him in
the meeting room, we're all sort of gathered around. He
just said, you know, you look at the non traditional
powers are winning.

Speaker 5 (27:49):
Now.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
He goes, there's no reason Michigan State shouldn't be one
of them, you know.

Speaker 5 (27:54):
I mean yeah, I mean absolutely, and one of those
non traditional powers down I mean, Indiana's obviously the obvious.
It's and they you and I talking about this when
we were in Bloomington. They outspent Michigan State Texas Tech.
Look at all the money they threw right to get
their line of scrimmage. It's all about the line of scrimmage.
It's football. Football is just fascinating that way, and it's
our most complex game, it's our most complicated game and

(28:17):
by our obviously American society, but but in some ways
it's also the simplest game. If you don't control the
line of scrimmage, then you're going to have a really,
really hard time winning. So that sort of black and
white kind of view is and Fitzgerald talked about that.
He said the rebuild was going to start there. You've

(28:38):
written how many comms have you written about the offensive
line in the last seven eight years? Right, Yeah, and
lately yeah, and lately the defensive line. That's where it starts.
If he can recruit there and develop there, he'll be fine.

Speaker 6 (28:50):
If he can't, he won't, Yeah, No, And I think
that's where it gets interesting now, because you know, you
win the press competence, and that's not not nothing like
having people feel a certain way about you. Number one,
it buys you time, It makes people want it to
work for you. It just it builds momentum. It's it's important.

(29:10):
But ultimately you know who he's able to recruit, the
resources he's been promised, and how that looks. And obviously
there's a massive capital campaign going on at Michigan State
now and I think you know, a bigger donation is
part of that coming up probably later this week, and
like there's a lot going there. But you know how

(29:32):
whether you get the right staff and can run the
right offense and can get the right players in, you know,
we'll see. I don't that stuff. He's gonna have to
still prove. I just think he starts from a better
place than Jonathan Smith, not just in terms of his
ability to sell himself and sell his vision for the program,
but in terms of the alignment with the university that
I think has learned just how important that is themselves.

Speaker 5 (29:54):
No, no of couesse, and let's not forget this too.
I mean, it's easy for all of us to say,
because there's some empirical evidence of this that when we're
talking about how much the money matters, you can't win
without money. But money doesn't guarantee that you win, right,
So that's that's and I think people understand that. So
you think about his personalities, charisma, the clarity, the way

(30:17):
he delivers a message. He's a he's a charismatic educator.
He comes across I mean, which is a classic coach
in a way, and that will matter not just in
terms of the fan bases, patients and maybe even the
donor based his patients, maybe even the administration patients, administration's patients.
It matters in recruiting, both in high school and the

(30:39):
portal because at some point, you know, if the money
is there, then how much how much different are we
talking about? If player as has two or three schools
and the money is all similar, Well, what's it going
to make the difference? Okay, whether family may be tradition,
but it still comes down to the coach and what
he sounds like in the living room, over the phone,
over zoom whatever, Right, So that that still matters. That

(31:01):
still matters.

Speaker 6 (31:03):
Yeah, And I think how you allocate those revshare funds.
I mean he talked about in that podcast we've all
referenced now with ESPN, just how you know everybody starts
at zero with the rev share and then it's what
you do beyond that that separates you and your player
development and all that stuff. But I also think one

(31:24):
of the things that's going to be really important in
the years to come, it's sort of like baseball teams
with smaller payrolls that do it really well, is the
decisions and hard discussions you have within your rev share
where you put your money in where you put your priorities.
Like I've always thought Michigan State should be a place
with a dominant offensive line. It's a place that could
recruit to that. That could be their identity. They could

(31:46):
even you know, create some sort of nil world that
revolved around that. Like I always thought, that's the miss there,
and that should be a place where that's just never
in question. That offentive line will want to go there.
They want to be part of something that can be named,
it can be branded.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Whatever it is. But I'll be very curious to see.
He's talked a lot about his sabbatical away in these
these couple of years since he was fired at Northwestern
and that and then you know, he is, he said,
vindicated this last summer by the findings of that investigation
and the settlement. But he's talked about looking under the

(32:20):
hood at other programs. What does that look like? How
does you know?

Speaker 6 (32:23):
What is Pat Fitzgerald two point zero hungary having coached
seventeen years of the Big ten now in a new world,
what does that look like?

Speaker 3 (32:32):
You know? And that I don't think we know, No.

Speaker 5 (32:37):
We don't. And one thing he's said in the podcast,
the thing he said in the podcast that really gives me.
The Game Day podcast that interested me the most, that
I thought was the most revealing was he was talking
about the money and the nil and so forth, but
he got sort of granular at one point talking about Okay,

(32:58):
there are a couple of things. One, when you go
into the portal or maybe into high school, and you
are talking about the initial amount of money, what we're
going to pay you, and being able to explain to
that player what their value is and why that money
figure is attached to that value depending on their position,

(33:19):
maybe their recruiting status coming out of high school. But
it's a little bit easier in the portal because you
can you can say this is what you've done, this
is what you think we can do. But then he
also said he would have to have those conversations with
players that are at Michigan State already who start to
improve and develop and get better, and then they want
more money and then try and figure out those So

(33:40):
it's almost it's a lot like what the NFL. How
the NFL operates, Right, you draft somebody, they get better,
they're worth a second contract. Okay, well how much is
that second contract worth? That depends on obviously the market
a little bit, but what position they play, how they
fit into the team. You know, they put a ton
of money in the quarterbow and most put in the quarterback.

(34:01):
But you know, defensive it do they have a defensive
end that's really expensive? Whatever? He talked about that about
laying all that out and getting the players to understand
where their value is and how much that's worth in
the larger context of that team, and then maybe how
they can even improve it from there, and I thought
that was really smart.

Speaker 6 (34:23):
Yeah, no, and how that's where the relationships matter, the
tough conversations you think about recruiting. And it used to
be just how much smoke you could blow up somebody
to make them want to be part of you. And
I get the coaches will say the more honest you
were with them, the better and and and all that.
And I'm not saying coaches aren't aren't sometimes honest and
that that helps in recruiting too. But now you have
to have tough conversations earlier. Right, you have to put

(34:44):
a cap on somebody's worth, so to speak, when they
may think that that their their value is limitless. So yeah,
I find that stuff. Maneuver that maneuvering. Very interesting. Yeah, well,
we'll see what happens. It was a heck of a
day one for him, but I don't think we anticipated
any less. I think the Breslen Center was the cap

(35:05):
of that where he just he stole the room again
is though even referenced it afterwards that he couldn't you
know here in the time out, he couldn't hear talking
to his players because Fitzgerald is yelling on the yelling
go Green, go white, and trying to rall up the crowd.
One of the timeouts. Let's talk some basketball here. Michigan
State eight and oh a very different team in terms

(35:29):
of understanding their identity and bullying people than what I
saw against Yukon on the road in the exhibition season.
Like they've come a long way, and I think that's
a great value of those exhibition games. I also think
Yukon is one of the top few teams in the country.
They're going to see that again against Duke and we'll
get a sort of a bookend measuring sticks of how
far they've come and where they are in that sense.
But what about this team impresses you most?

Speaker 5 (35:55):
Probably probably what impresses you and everybody else just a
I like the physicality a lot. I like the rebounding.
I like the defense on the front line, especially with
Cooper and even Kohler in his own way, and even
car I mean the way he compete. I like all
of that. But to me, and I was thinking about
this yesterday a little bit with with Jeremy Fears. As

(36:18):
you know, Tom Izzos mentioned mcteen Cleeves since you've covered him,
since I've covered him since mnteen clues has been there, right, Oh,
this guy's maybe he's like Cleeve's. Right. He references certain
players and has over the years. It's got a little
bit of Cleaves tears. To me, is the closest the
CLEAs he's had since Cleeves. And and body type. He
might be a little shorter, but just in the way

(36:42):
he plays and body type. He can make some shots,
but he's not a shooter. The all out effort on
both ends, right, just the engagement. I mean, obviously he's
a world class trash talker, but just the way he
commands face on the court remind you of that a
little bit. And look, I don't know how much longer

(37:04):
he I assume you don't either, how much longer is
I was going to do this, but can you see
a world where he I mean, maybe he goes beyond
Fears and let's just say Fear stays two more years
after this, and maybe maybe maybe Tom goes past that
that that that's fine. But there's some nice poetry too
to having these these kind of these two guards maybe
bookend his career in a way, right, And I don't know,

(37:27):
maybe maybe this leads to one more runner, one more title,
who knows, But but to me, that's the kind of
that's the most impressing thing to me is that the
synergy he's got with Fears and the way Fears has
started to develop, and frankly, you know he's gonna get
He's gonna keep getting better. And now I don't I'm talked.
I've talked just talking about next year, but this year, right,
I mean, where's he going to be in February?

Speaker 6 (37:50):
That's a good question. I do think a better bookend
is matteen Cleves Junior, who is it more of a
shooting guard? But uh, finishing that would that's he's a
twenty twenty eight prospect. So there's there's there's that down
the road, But there have been other opportunities for poetry,
and is Ooh has chosen to stay. I don't know
that he has anything to do, so I think he's
gonna I don't mean that like he has to keep coaching,

(38:10):
but I think this is what he loves. But you're right,
I do think that there is a presence to him.
There's a confidence that comes with him. There is that
the team had. The trash talk is part of that,
you know, just the ability to get in people's heads,
to frustrate people, to lead and make everybody else feel
like they're going to be okay in this game. On

(38:32):
the court now, they've got a lot of other veterans
who are doing that. And like I look at a
guy like Jackson Kohler, who last night was really good,
and he keeps setting the tone with five rebounds very quickly,
and he had twelve points eleven rebounds. He still doesn't
score as much in the post as I think he could,
and I've been surprised that hasn't happened. But you know,
a lot of skill, but just a ferocious rebounder. And

(38:58):
I don't think they knew they were getting that when
they recruited them. That wasn't why they recruited them. They
didn't look at him and high school and go, there's
the next Xavier Tillman, Right, that wasn't his pedigree. And
I think that that's his development and that and sort
of what he gives them. And then Cooper's, you know,
from being a project to a guy who's a fairly
elite ball screen defender and turned into it, you know,

(39:22):
a plus offensive player, you know, with Carr and just
sort of the the hunger those four have and the
understanding of their games that they all have, like nobody
does anything they're not capable of doing. Like that's really
impressed me with Cohen Carr because Jane Nakens went through

(39:43):
this a year ago where it was like his turn
and you want to be like this all NBA guy
and you want to be the next star and you
want to take over for Tyson Walker and your game
isn't quite at that level. And then Jace Richardson obviously
became the guy who sort of supplanted him and all that.
But I've been impressed that and I think that did
get in his head very very early, but it hasn't
gotten in Cohen Car's head. He sort of let the

(40:03):
game come to him and be who he is.

Speaker 5 (40:07):
Oh for sure. And you're right, all four of them
are like that. And and the young guys are like
that too. They're young guys and they're trying to find
their way. But you know a couple of things on
Cohler and and Cooper one on Coler, you're right they
I mean, they probably hoped he'd be a rebounder, but
they thought he was going to be like a baby
yo Kischeh.

Speaker 7 (40:26):
You know.

Speaker 5 (40:26):
I mean they saw him as I remember when they
were recruiting him and talking to some of the coaches.
They they saw him as a player. They thought it
could be a fabulous offensive oriented guy. Right and the
feet are still there, the hands are still there. I'm
not sure what's happened to the touch, even just last night.
The way he's missing right now, he's almost he's almost
better out from the three point line, which is crazy

(40:48):
to say. I think that'll settle in as the year goes.
But no, of course, then they saw him an offensive player.
As far as Cooper, I'll tell you a quick story.
My my son Sam, who was who was up in
Michigan State when Cooper I think first got there and
he was at a practice one day and he was
sitting next to the great Doug Herner, and Doug Herner
looks and says and points to Cooper on the on

(41:10):
the court and says, that guy is going to be
a really, really good player before he leaves. And Sam said, who, well.

Speaker 3 (41:17):
Who are you?

Speaker 5 (41:18):
Who are you pointing at? Because at that point Cooper
could barely get one foot in front of the other.
Do you remember do you remember what he was like when?

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Well?

Speaker 6 (41:26):
Yeah, except he had moments. So I was we were
talking about this earlier, that the idea that I mean
I over hyped him early. He had some moments like
if you go back to the Illinois game as a
freshman where he gets thrown in and he's just rim running,
you know, and people didn't know who he was. There
were there were signs of it, but I absolutely know
what you mean, because there's been There were a lot
of signs of it not being there early on as well.

Speaker 5 (41:46):
No, No, he always had I mean, obviously the size
was there. He's buffed up since then. And he had
some sneaky guy that's such a majority he had let's
just say it. He had some athleticism, he had a
little bit of explosiveness, and that was there from the start,
but just the way he had to grow into his body.
His hands weren't nearly a sawt. I'm not saying they're
like colors now, but they're much soften than they used
to be. And that the footwork wasn't there, you know,

(42:10):
just the way he carried himself. His competitive spirit was
probably always there, but the way he's owned it. That
may be the most impressive thing to me about him
right now, Graham is it's just the way he takes
up space in the court. He knows he's good. Yeah,
he plays like he knows he's good, and you know,
it's hard to uh to find that in a box score.

Speaker 6 (42:32):
Doug Herner, by the way, would be much more of
a household name other than being my freshman year Jim
coach at Lancing Sexton High School or gym teacher. He
used to take our money by he'd bet that we
could beat him in a free throw contest, and he
was always ten for ten and he was All American
at Michigan back in the day. He's been Isoh's right
hand man for a long time, but he should have
been Magic Johnson's high school coach. If not for forced

(42:54):
integrated bussing that sent Magic South to Everett High School,
he would have been at Sexton when Herner was Can
you imagine being Doug Herner coaching Sexton while Everett had
Magic and Eastern had Jay Vincent?

Speaker 3 (43:05):
What the hell is that? I mean?

Speaker 6 (43:06):
That was anyway, still bitter. I wasn't really paying attention
back then or born, but still still still bitter to this.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
To this day.

Speaker 5 (43:13):
But but but real quickly. The reason I bring that
up is it just speaks to and we talked about this,
We've talked about this for decades now, but it just
speaks to and I think it's interesting and important to
note that even in this day and age, development still matters. Yeah,
you know the guys, you can get guys to stick around.
I mean obviously obviously Visna say it's got some young

(43:35):
some promising young players, and that matters too, and they're
gonna have to figure that out. At the two guard
it's a mix of obviously transfers and the young guys,
but but and the sort of mid guys and middle guys.
Not mid guys and middle guys. But yeah, no, that
that's how you take a step back ground that he's
doing it the way he's always done it, with a
little bit of ad justin with the portal, right, I

(43:57):
mean that's and that's kind of remarkable.

Speaker 6 (44:00):
Yeah, no, it's you know, it's I think if if
these guys, you know, I think we said it before
the year, if these guys all came out of the
portal like they have at some schools, there would be
you know, this group would have been lauded from from
the from the get go. But uh, but it's worked
out and I think they're starting to get that praise now.
You're starting to see nationally people realize just how good

(44:22):
they are a team not so good. Wanted to touch
on with you real quick before we go the Detroit Lions.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Who have you know that?

Speaker 6 (44:31):
I mean, this is what is this a must? If
they lose this game, are they making the playoffs? I
think the schedule still gives them an opportunity, but you
probably have to win eleven to get in and so
and so if this game against a Cowboys team that's
going in the opposite direction, I you know they've got

(44:51):
to win this, right.

Speaker 5 (44:54):
Yeah, I mean they're going to go beat the Rams
in La. The following Sunday, a week from a week
from Sunday. Rather, I should say I don't know. I mean,
mathematically they don't have to win it, but yeah, I mean,
then they lose two in a row for the first
time in what two and a half years, three years,
whatever it is. It's just it's amazing how quickly this
is all turned. Yeah, unfortunately, unfortunately for the lines. But

(45:17):
the end of this is the NFL though, Right, this
is the nature of the NFL. I mean, teams are
really good and they have a tough year and then
they did the really the good franchises bounce back. So
but you know they don't They're not gonna have armand
ra right, Laporte is already out, Graham Glasgow don't know
he's going to be back. The rag Nows that was

(45:37):
short lived, and then you know, Kirby Joseph is probably
not gonna play. I mean, it's and you're right, Dallas
just I mean, they're they're on a roll right now.
They have the best offense in the league. That's a
scary thought. Right, they're gonna they're probably gonna have to
outscore them and let's unless they turn them over, which
they have not been doing that either, So I don't know.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
I'm with you.

Speaker 5 (45:58):
It's it's it's kind of a muss win.

Speaker 6 (46:00):
What's the lesson? What's the lesson from this year? Like
you as you, I mean, obviously there are injuries, but
there have been injuries every year and and so there
will be injuries next year. So what's the lesson from
this year?

Speaker 5 (46:12):
I mean, I guess you could say to be more
aggressive at the trade deadline and going to get a
defensive end. I don't know, maybe if Jalen Phillips is
on the line instead of the instead of the Eagles,
they beat Philly and they're not in this I mean
you could you could argue that maybe, But in terms
of it was it was a tricky The timing of
Frank Ragnow really hurt, right. I Mean, the lesson is

(46:33):
and they know this. I don't know if it's a
lesson for them, but the offensive line is the key
to the rebuild, was the key to the rebuild. They've
said that since they started the rebuild, and that that
offensive line play has slipped off, and that more than
any other thing, is responsible for why they are where
they are. They don't run the ball in the same
way because of that line. Therefore, the playoffs and playoffs

(46:54):
and pass isn't the same. Jared Goff doesn't have the
same time and it all there's still scoring fine because
they have such great skilled players, but it's that they
don't need a dominant, dominant defense. They had the kind
of offense where you needed like a top twelve, you know,
top fifteen. Maybe I've done the research on this before

(47:15):
the top ten, top twelve someone there. That's the kind
of defense you need when you have the offense they
have had the last couple of years. But it all
starts with that offensive line. So that's that's the lesson.

Speaker 6 (47:27):
Well, Sean will be at the Lions game Thursday night.
You'll be at the Duke Michigan State game Saturday, so
you can read his coverage of both those events, and
I urge you to read his coverage today at free
dot com. It's good to see you, man, and look
forward to seeing you Saturday.

Speaker 5 (47:42):
Absolutely enjoy. Don't you have some kind of party coming up,
some kind of Christmas movie?

Speaker 6 (47:46):
I have a Hallmark Christmas party Thursday night during the
Lions game. I got to figure out how to I
think this happened last year they put on Thursday night,
and yeah, so I will. I will figure out how
to maneuver that. I'm not hosting it. I didn't pick
the date. It's a neighbor, but I but I partake.
So yes, absolutely, and you should and.

Speaker 5 (48:04):
And a man does not apologize for going to watch
Hallmark movies instead of the Lines game. You own it,
and you say, that's just how it is.

Speaker 6 (48:11):
That's that's right, that's just how it is. That's that's
that's absolutely right. I love you, man, I'll talk to
you soon.

Speaker 5 (48:17):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
That's uh.

Speaker 6 (48:18):
Shawn Windsor from Detroit Free Press. What kind of advice
is that Windsor talking about? Yeah, no ridicule from that.
You can just tell him you can't go right, I
gotta watch the Lions. So here's why it works because
the person who hosts it, the woman who hosts it,
her husband is Matt Wenzel, who's a Michigan state writer

(48:40):
covers Michigan State for m Life. Yeah, and so he
he does not care. He does not play the Hallmark
bingo with us. He is in the other room with
the Lions game on the Big Han of Man, Which
is a big help for me because I am able
to sort of back and forth and go sit and
watch the game with him and come back and make
sure I'm not missing any.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Of the Hobie. I could never yeah, yeah, not want
me any part of that. No, it would not go well, yeah, no,
I'm I'm able to do it. So any takeaways from that? Well,
speaking of the Lions, you guys were talking about the
Lions at the end there in Michigan. Fan Jordan sent
me this tweet from Al Carston, who's at football Guy
underscore a AL defensive highest time to throw allowed since

(49:20):
twenty twenty The Lions are in the top ten or
excuse me, the top eight three times, the twenty twenty
three Lions, who allowed it two point seven to five
seconds for a quarterback to throw, the twenty twenty four
Lions two point eight three seconds, and number one this
year's Lions team with two point eight seven seconds. So's

(49:41):
having time? No, this is the no defensively. Oh, this
is what the defense is not allowing the opposing quarterback.
I'm sorry I should have let you know that, but yeah.
So it's just it's just curious, of is does Brad
Holmes see a tweet like this? Does anyone show him this,
and I would love to hear his response of and
then when he just waxed poetic about how when Mark
Davenport comes back healthy and how great the other side

(50:03):
of the defensive line will be and all this blah blah.
I just don't get it, and it is a must
win tomorrow, I don't. I just don't see a path
to where the Lions can make the playoffs. I'm not
dead inside.

Speaker 6 (50:15):
So obviously, obviously there's the draft, where you have a
first round pick, and I think they just have one
this year. I don't think they got anything else. But
you have the draft where you have a couple early
round picks to fix things. There will be some cap
space hopefully in free agency they can use it, because
I know theyre But it doesn't matter if you don't
do anything in free agency, correct, Right, So the question
is would you even I mean, are there trades you

(50:36):
can say, like, if there was something that they have
that's a strength that you would be willing to have
be a little less of a strength to improve them,
either on the edge as a rushing or on the
offensive line, what would that be?

Speaker 3 (50:47):
I mean, I need names to who to move right,
I mean what do you mean. I don't know if
we have anyone to move, per se, but I'm talking
about adding smaller pieces to bring in more depth. I
think honestly, our starting coal or is perfect. I like
our starting cores. It's the problem is when these guys like,
there's no way you're gonna make it through a full
football season, and especially in the NFL with no injuries

(51:09):
or very little injuries. So I just want more. I'm
not asking for a big power broker move, per se,
but you know the Jalen phillips Ish kind of moves,
those little things that can build up your your the
depth into your uh you know, in your lineup here.
That's just like, what are we doing? I just can't
sit back and Saint Brown and I gotta see fucking
Tim or Tom I can never remember his name Kennedy

(51:29):
at wide receiver right, and the Lions are minus three
this week. I just I couldn't. I could not tell
anybody with a straight face to take the Lions giving
points even at home, because I don't know if a
mon Ross Saint Brown's gonna play or you know, I
mean pinay Sewell got hurt at practice the other day,
Like I just can't.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
You know.

Speaker 3 (51:45):
It's like with Michigan State. I'm sitting there going like
my whole sports world now is just basically praying that
there's no injuries. I'm watching the Michigan State I would
gi him like, get Colder out of there. You know,
it sucks, you know it? Just like that's the Lions season.
I don't want it to happen for Michigan State because
I love the depth that they have, and you know,
look at the depth of Michigan State has and how
fun it is to watch that basketball team play. I

(52:06):
know it's obvious different sports, but I want that for
the Lions, where I know the next man up. Shit.
That mentality is great. I understand that, but you need
help in free agency and picking up guys when injuries happen.
And it doesn't seem like Brad Holme wants to start
to do that. No, and were you look back at
the draft classes and you go, we could have given
up those picks to get these certain players, and I

(52:28):
would have rather had those players instead of the draft
picks obviously in hindsight, and I know it's early on Tesla,
but you use those third rounders to trade up to
get a guy that I don't know if anybody was
even looking for right other teams in that draft were
they looking for Tesla? So speaking of use those picks,
I mean, Scott Harrison, Brad Holmes, Let's fuck it. I'm
sick of these like picks and all this stuff. Let's

(52:50):
make a move.

Speaker 6 (52:51):
Speaking of Koler, I mean, he seems like a pretty
durable bloke, like the way he fell slipped on the
sidelines yesterday and he just gets I mean, he's built
himself that way. But if you were to get hurt
and I'm not this is not anything. Did you say
that to him? No, I'm not taking it look like
a durable blow. But I just want to see his face,
like what he would say. This is the This is
the messed up stuff I think about because I always
think they should have red shirted Jackson Coler the year

(53:12):
that he was missed the first like ten and eleven,
twelve games whatever it was with the foot injury, and
so he has a red shirt year available. It could
be a medical, but he'd have to get injured in
like the next two or three games. So if it
were to happen, you know not that you want that
I'm sorry. We'll fix that in post. I might actually
have to do that. Yeah, this is the worst thing

(53:32):
I've ever done. This is the worst apologize. I just
I just am frustrated that he can't be on next
year's team for them, because I think he should be
available to come back.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
No, no, not not at all.

Speaker 6 (53:43):
I think this should be a great timer. Cou This
is one of the worst I we were not We're not.
We'll just just delete the show. Yeah, none, but let's
uh we come back. You brought up the Lions game
Lions minus three. It's a great week in the NFL
with a bunch of games that mean a whole lot.
Let's and obviously the college football conference championship games. Let's

(54:04):
take a break and we come back. We'll just go
through some of the stuff, anything that we sort of
like this weekend. Bet we may take games were intrigued by,
and what's going to be a pretty sweet weekend of football.
Couch of the Room our Wednesday show presented by our
friends at Front forty three Neighborhood Pub and Casking Company
Kitchen Bar.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
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Speaker 7 (56:08):
Fine Couching the Room podcasts on Spreaker, iTunes, iHeartRadio, Spotify, YouTube, Facebook,
Google Podcasts, cast Box, and the rubes favorite podcasts Addict,
Pound the.

Speaker 6 (56:22):
Bushes, Couching the roub Our Wednesday afternoon show presented by
our friends at Front forty three Neighborhood Pub and Cask
and Company Kitchen and Bar. Outstanding place for a date night, cozy,
holiday drink, whether you want sushi, flatbread, burgers. They've got

(56:44):
a great menu, modern American Asian menu and fantastic drink selection.
Just near the Lanting East Lansing Border Front forty three
and Casking Company, you can make a reservation at Cascincompany
dot com. Jason, by the way, you tell windsor you
love them a lot, like all the time on the phone, owner,
because you did you let it slip? I did sliped
in it. Yeah, you guys do that. It's deeper than

(57:04):
nurses sixty nine. I mean no, it's okay.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
You know you guys you do that. I don't know.

Speaker 6 (57:09):
I don't know if I ever sorry, don't do that
though I know that, I don't know that we have
no but I don't and I don't know if I've
ever said it before.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
I think there's a lovable guy. I can see that.
You know, he's very nice. I'm sure he's got the
good food recommendations. Member of the blue Wall. I just figured,
you know, I heard you. I love you so much.
I didn't say so much. Oh sorry, you're definitely adding,
You're definitely adding. Then then it gets weird. I mister smoke, Yeah,
that would get weird. Yeah, he did get a little
like when he heard Elizabeth laugh, he thought that was me.

(57:37):
He was so, Jason, are you guys sound the same?
I was like, damn, dude, he wanted like some smoke
with me or something. I was like, I love you
windsor I love you for real anyway. I love that
he wears like zippy hoodie sweatshirt like other people are.
Some of the reporters, young guys especially dressed up in
like ties and shirts yesterday, like like it's their event,

(57:58):
you know, Like the kid that asked the question and
he was like, we're from the State news. Uh student thing,
the journalism.

Speaker 5 (58:05):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (58:06):
Hell yeah, that's how you asked. I could not imagine
being a student, being a young person kidding. I mean,
fuck forty six in front of all those people. Yeah,
I'd be shitting in my pants. So I'm not making
fun of it, but it's just made me laugh that
he said it was well done. Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah,
all right, So I wish we could have one of
those like once a month. Man, Well, just a pep
rally press, pep rally presser. Just throw Iszzo up there, Gus.

(58:28):
Let's do it anyway it would.

Speaker 6 (58:31):
It was funny when Guskawitz got asked a very specific
question about something with the coaching search. He was basically like,
this is why I hired Jay Batt.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
That was his answer.

Speaker 6 (58:40):
Well, yeah, there you go. Honestly, it works all right.
So this weekend, great weekend. Beginning the Lions Cowboys. You
referenced the Lions minus three. This is the I don't
know if I've ever seen a better stay away in
my life in a football game than this Lions Cowboys game,
because I don't trust the Cowboys. Frankly, either the Lions
or sometimes can have a day where they just look

(59:02):
like a wagon. They're just it's they just haven't been lately,
so minus three seems absurd. You can see the Cowboys
winning this. I can't see the Lions stopping the Cowboys,
but I've seen the Lions often struggle a little of late,
so the over under even scares me a little bit.
I don't know that I've ever seen a game that
I'm more of a stay away than this game.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
But tell me why I mean, honestly, it's a stay
away because you don't want to bet Dallas. But I would.
I would tell people. I mean, I'm not gonna do it,
but I would take Dallas plus three with we Just
before the break, I read to you the defense of
you know, the Lions defense allowing opposing quarterbacks almost three
seconds of time and Dak Prescott with George Pickens and
Ceedee Lamb and Ferguson. I mean, fuck, we're anal zone

(59:41):
is going to cover Ferguson. I mean, dude, I want
to listen. Make me eatcro I'm ready to eat it.
But if you're telling me right now, give me the
Dallas and the points.

Speaker 6 (59:49):
I think if I were looking to have a wager
on this game, and I'm not, but if I were,
and I wanted to not obviously bet against the Lions,
I think I would put it in a teaser and
tease down the over under so that I could get like,
because I do think it's gonna hit like over forty
seven and a half or whatever. I think that I
think there's gonna be. You know, these are two teams

(01:00:10):
without great defenses, and so I do think a fifty
four and a half probably happens too. I just you know,
the Lions offense has struggled a little lately. On over
forty seven and a half, i'd feel a lot better
about and i'd probably.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Uh and the touchdowns are all juiced, so you can
even bet on those. It's just like the prop market is.
I don't know. That's why when you brought it up,
I'm sitting there going like, ah, there are out of
these bets. There's not even funn anymore. But here are
the game.

Speaker 6 (01:00:34):
There are so many games this weekend that are interesting,
that are consequential, like Pittsburgh Baltimore and I don't think
either of those is a great team, but they're both
six and six playing for the division. Like that's that's
a fun That's a fun game, right. No, I'd rather
watch a replay of the Red Box Bowl. Okay, I
mean talking about two teams. I mean, are they going
to really do anything in the playoffs right now? But
I'd rather watch that than Colt Jaguars were both eight

(01:00:56):
and four. I guess we're really Yeah, for whatever reason,
Bill's Ben the Bengals are somehow not out of this,
and they look really good now that Burrows back. That's
an interesting game eight and four, Bills four to eight,
Bengals Bears, Packers nine and three and eight three one
obviously very interesting game, a tie, and then the Sunday
night game Texans Chiefs, Like the Chiefs got to win
and they're playing one of the best defense.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
But Houston's it's going to be a way. I can
see that thing six to three, and I like.

Speaker 6 (01:01:22):
The under forty two on that one because Houston's offense
has its own struggles. And then the Eagles Chargers isn't
bad on Monday Night either, but it's one of the
best NFL slates period, And I think if the Lions win,
like it's you know how it is where it's hard
to enjoy the overall slate if your own team is
in the shitter, tell me about it. Yeah, So, if
the Lions could find a way to beat the Cowboys,

(01:01:45):
then you get to enjoy this whole football weekend and
the Lions problem still all will exist, but at least
they'll be eight and five. At least the path to
the playoffs will still look pretty clear and understandable how
they have to get there. Beating the Rams won't be
a complete must all that sort of stuff, and so
you get to enjoy the weekend. Is there a game?
Is there within these where you look at the line

(01:02:06):
like I kind of and you say that this is
where I'm in. I'm all in on on this particular.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
In the NFL. Yeah, I'd have to be a crazy person.
I'd have to be one of those gambling expert guys
that sounds like they're gargling with freaking gravel or something
you believable. In the NFL, you have no FN idea
on some of these things. I can't look at any
of these games and go absolutely that'll you know, you
have to go more by In the NFL, you go
by storylines and narratives and shit like that over I
do any kind of insight or guys that know ball

(01:02:36):
or crushing tape or anything like that. The NFL is
an absolute crapshoot. Let me give you if it sucks,
the gamble on some time. Let me give you some
teasers that I like though. So I like, if you
if you can knock these down seven points. I like
the Lions Cowboys. Is this gonna be a minus one
eighty O?

Speaker 5 (01:02:50):
No?

Speaker 6 (01:02:51):
No, this is minus seven. So two team teasers like
minus one thirty you had a third team and gets
pretty even or plus money.

Speaker 3 (01:02:56):
OK.

Speaker 6 (01:02:58):
I like, I obviously like the Cowboy Lions. If you
take it down to forty seven and a half going
over there, if you minus if you basically take the
if you take the Seahawks and a teaser down to
minus one or even money six or seven points at
the Falcons against Kirk Cousins, that that version of Kirk
Cousins and that Seahawks. I get it's a team going
east and we just saw what happened with the Rams

(01:03:18):
going to Carolina like that, but I.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
Could also see Kirk Cousins leading them to a victory,
him yelling you like that one last time.

Speaker 6 (01:03:26):
Also like he retires. Bengals and a teaser. I think
the Bengals are legitimately competitive and Burrow as a swagger
And if you bring that up to like eleven and
a half, twelve and a half at Buffalo, I think
that's a really good I think there are a number
of teasers the Bears up to like thirteen and a half.
Love that at Green Bay. I think there are a
number of games that'll be competitive and close and if
you can, you know, either bring it down to there's

(01:03:46):
some teasers where I feel pretty good this week in
NFL action.

Speaker 3 (01:03:51):
I gotta say, though, I'm more of about the college
slate with the the the conference championship game. You know,
we're forgetting about those a little bit. But I want
to see Indiana Ohios Right, Yeah, Indiana getting four in
a hook. You know, is that neutral or is that
at Ohio State?

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
This is this is a neutral Sorry, yeah, this is
it's a big ten championships Indianapolis. Yea, Indianapolis, we're still
doing that. Listen. I don't know every young link Kiff
and everybody's flipping its things on a tit. I forget
where it's at now. So Indianapolis. I still want to
see where Indiana stacks up, right there? Four in a hook.
I just it seems like a public number to where
they're trying to sucker you in to take in Indiana
and Ohio State on a neutral field roles. But I

(01:04:27):
think I would take Indiana four and a hook on that.
It's one of the more fascinating ones. For this reason.

Speaker 6 (01:04:32):
I think that, like you know, we talk about these
championship games, eventually I think will go away. The meaning
of them is last year you got to play this
extra game before the playoff, and if you lose it
and you don't get a buye, like what how that's
no good.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
It's a shame, but it kind of has to happen,
right where they get rid.

Speaker 6 (01:04:46):
Of these, yeah, one hundred percent, but but for this one,
it's it's there are ones where you go. This is
one of the last great ones. This because Indiana winning
a Big Ten championship, especially the Big Ten now, but
winning a Big Ten championship for Indiana football would mean something,
I mean, and it would mean more than would for
Ohio State. And yet Ohio State, which finally beat Michigan,
has that relief and that exhale is the defending national

(01:05:07):
champions probably wants to like Indiana's gotten a lot of
height for a long time, wants to stay at the
top of the mountain, like I think this is I mean,
this is my favorite game in a long time. And
I yeah, I am probably gonna put a little on
Indiana just because I want them to win.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
And I know and so you're pro Signetti, now, well,
I'm pro the only wins your money.

Speaker 6 (01:05:27):
I'm pro the little guy. I'm pro the Indiana story.
I'm not pro decider. You're on your flip flopping on signet.
You don't like his scheduling. I know you're a little guy.
Those If you're a little guy, you have to schedule.
You got to put the schedule in your favor. This
scheduling is shameful and I'm annoyed that other teams want
to do this. Now, Like to me, if you're not
if nobody, if it's gonna be Michigan State versus Youngstown

(01:05:47):
State three straight weeks to open the year every year,
that's cool. I'm just gonna take my vacations into Marquette
until mid September. We'll come back, we'll start the season,
and Michigan State and every other place should have like
ticket packages for the actual season beginning when the Big
Ten plays, because nobody wants. I mean, think about the
Youngstown State game. Yeah, you like being the opener. It
works because it's the opener. Everybody's excited. You think about

(01:06:09):
week three and this is what Indiana did this year.
Indiana played nobody. They disrespected their fans. Their fans are
thrilled right now because the program is in an unbelievable place.
But it's a shitty way to do college football. The
flip side of that, the argument is his program is
healthy and you play one less game where you get
beat up. At that level, his program tends to be healthy.
I think some of that's the way they practice, but

(01:06:32):
like there is an argument for it. I just think
it sucks. I think everybody should be playing ten. Well,
how do you fix it?

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
It's easy. You just make it's pretty death of schedule,
make it a priority.

Speaker 6 (01:06:43):
Just make it mandated that if you're a powerfour team
that's going to benefit from the strength of schedule of
that you have to play a minimum of ten power
for conference opponents. And if you do that, because you
can't control, like you can schedule a team five years
out and think, hey we just scheduled a good game
and that team winds up being shitty, that's not your fault.

(01:07:05):
It's not Michigan State's fault that Boston College, who I
thought was gonna be pretty decent, went on to have
this horrendous year. That intent in scheduling should matter. I
don't mind that something goes wrong, but there is you
still should have to to try to play those games, right.
I think the intent of it should should should be
there and you don't have to play behemoths. I mean,
Indiana doesn't have to play Alabama, you know, just don't

(01:07:28):
beg out of the Virginia game.

Speaker 3 (01:07:29):
And I get there. It's being of Alabama, Alabama playing Georgia,
and Alabama with two losses if they lose to Georgia,
obviously that's going to be the big controversy. If a
three loss team gets into the twelve team playoff, well
it's a colossal mess.

Speaker 6 (01:07:43):
And that's the other thing is if these games shouldn't
hurt you, you know, right, these games can't exist if
they hurt you, Like if people who want the Big
Ten or these conference championship games to go away, like
I do after this year, you want Georgia to win
and you want Alabama to get left out because that
will be the end the SEC.

Speaker 3 (01:08:02):
That would be the end of it.

Speaker 6 (01:08:03):
The secv head that we're not having a championship game
because if Alabama would be in today, plays an extra game,
then everybody else and then is out. The SEC is
like we're done. Good luck with that. And obviously there's
TV money, right, so the conference championship games will be
gone by January first, and and and that might if
it means an extra few teams in the playoff to
make the TV stuff right, So be it if you

(01:08:24):
like that. If they're going to go to sixteen in
the playoff, I can deal with that. If the conference
championship games are gone, because you're not necessarily adding an
extra round, you're getting rid of rid of buys, and
if you could play a couple more on campus sites.
I think the bigger thing is the calendar needs to
move up to where the last week in August is
week one and last weekend the week before Thanksgiving is

(01:08:47):
the end of the regular season. I would love to
start the playoffs like now Thanksgiving weekend and then you're
done by you know, January one. I think that's the
way you fix the calendar. And you maybe could have
a week off and there if you didn't have a
week between the championship game and whatever. But there are
ways to look at it. I just think, you know,

(01:09:07):
if you don't like these championship games, Alabama getting left
out would be uh would be something?

Speaker 3 (01:09:13):
Do you. I don't have another side here, I really
really love.

Speaker 6 (01:09:18):
I'd probably put a little something on Western Miami, Ohio,
just to have fun with it. In the MAC championship game,
except I'm scarred from two thousand and nine gram or
whatever year it was twenty eleven when I Miami, Ohio
beat Northern Illinois and I dropped two grand and have
not gotten over that. It's sort of like, so well,
best of both worlds. I won't be able to see
the game though, Michigan State's playing duke basketball at the

(01:09:40):
same time, so I'm not going to get to watch
the game anyway, So I don't think i'll If I
was watching the game, I would I would do I
would do something.

Speaker 3 (01:09:45):
Yeah, it's tough to bet on these games and not
watch them. We can have your phone on the side,
you know, I do that sometimes. Yeah, yeah, we will
do what we're betting. Of course, presented by fire Keepers
this Friday Journard Groovy Donut Twitter Questions. We appreciate all
of you listening as always and producing our shows on
Mondays and Fridays. Will count on you again this Friday.
We appreciate Shean Windsor and of course Front forty three

(01:10:07):
Neighborhood Hub and Casking Company Kitchen Bar. Go to Casking
Company dot com make a reservation today, especially on the
weekends when they get busy.

Speaker 6 (01:10:15):
You just type in what you want. You want to booth,
which side you want to be on. They'll take care
of you. They're fantastic. They're front forty three and Casking Company.
Good show man. Yeah minute, we'll talk to you Friday.
Catching the room

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