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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Get to know the Cougar's opponents and rivals. Right now,
I need to know the faux segment. Todd Cougar Sports
with Ben Kretelber, Welcome back Cougar Sports one O three
nine ninety eight point three. ESPN the Fan. I've been
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(00:42):
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(01:04):
let's get out to the hotline. Welcome in. University of
Utah Insider, Utah Jazz Insider. He's got his own show
on the ESPN seven hundred airwaves of the Afternoon Drive
two to six pm. It's the Drive with Spence. Check
it's He's on the line, Spence. How you living, brother?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I'm good man. I love this week. It's been really
fun so far. Looking forward to the rest of it
and looking forward to what I think he's going to
be an epic historic Saturday night in Provo for the
people that will be in Provo.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah. How unique in singular is it to have the
rivalry back in the same conference. Right? For too long
they were separated by conference affiliation, years were taken off.
You know, I always felt like the student athlete was
the one that was deprived of these unique and singular
competitive experiences. We know that college football was built on rivalries.
(01:55):
How special is it now for these student athletes the
community to have it the time and place it's at
right now with the conference affiliation included.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, the conference affiliation and the fact that both teams
are still very much alive and in the race to
win the conference, and if you are there at the end,
and there really is a dynamic in play that this
conference could get two teams in if the cards fall
where they need to fall. And neither of these programs
(02:25):
has ever been to a CFP. The fourth time in history,
these two teams have been ranked in the AP Top
twenty five. Fox Big Noon in Town, I mean, with
a prime time slot and the game on Fox, there
is a chance this will be the most watched game
in the one hundred plus year history of Utah BYU football.
I think more people will be exposed to this rivalry
(02:48):
than have ever been exposed to it before. And there's
so much on the line. There's always a lot on
the line. I mean, these two teams could stink and
there would be a lot on the line, but they're
both really good and BYU passed every test that's been
put to them so far. Utah loss to a team
who I think, you know, it's probably time to say
Texas Tech isn't just potentially the best team in the
(03:09):
Big twelve, but maybe one of the top five or
sixteams in the country. So a lot on the line.
Primetime slot night games in Provo are a lot of fun.
That stadium is going to be loud and proud, and
millions of people across the country will be exposed to it.
So very much looking forward to Saturday night. Compelling, compelling stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, over the last thirty years, I was kind of
running the numbers, and let's say thirty one years going
back to when Ronnie Mack took over the program at
the University of Utah. Since that moment, the rivalry shifted
and Utah became the winner of this rivalry. Nineteen wins
for them, twelve losses. So b Wait only has twelve
wins in that span of time, and most of those
(03:50):
wins came in the independent era for BYU, in the
PAC twelve era for the University of Utah, and many
of those any of those games, I think we're decided
by one score, like eight or less points. And so
I don't know you mentioned the national coverage of this.
I don't know, and you maybe have a better finger
(04:13):
on the pulse of the national scene a bit because
you've been around, you have many connections around the country.
Do they really know what this rivalry is all about?
The emotion, the religion aspect, the communal aspect of it, Like,
do they really know what this rivalry is all about? Spence?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I don't think you can unless you have lived here.
I don't think you can unless you've played in the game,
coached in the game, attended one of the schools covered
this game. I mean it's I think from a macro standpoint,
people respect it and get that it's heated, But unless
(04:56):
you've been in the mix, I don't think there's any
way you POSSI can. I mean, it's it's unique for
me because my grandfather may he Rest in Peace, was
a Cougar Club member, and so I started going to
this game when I was two, and you know, throughout
the course of my upbringing, even when we moved back East,
I made sure to stay locked into this game. I
(05:19):
would stay up until midnight back East, even to watch
BYU and Utah basketball back at Big Mondays back in
the day. Then I moved back out here, I went
to the U. All five of my siblings went to BYU.
All five of my siblings met their spouse at BYU.
My dad went to both schools, so he'll tell you that,
you know, he walks the defense. But my parents both
(05:41):
went to BYU. And so I've been either going to
this game, attending this game, or covering this game for
basically forty five years. I'll tell you how old I am,
and obviously you played. So to answer your question, I
do think from a macro stand, it's respected and it's
(06:01):
understood how big it is by people that cover the
sport or love college football. But I just don't think
there's any way you can fully understand it unless you've
been in it for a long time.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, I'm currently trying to pen a piece about this
rivalry game, you know, and how like these different elements
that make it super unique to our community. And coming
from the state of Arizona, I had no idea what
this rivalry was about until I experienced it for myself,
and I'm gonna try to put it into words. It'll
(06:33):
be interesting to see how it's received. The tribalism, the enmity,
the social comparison, like the competitive comparison culture that we
all fall prey to in our social lives, but how
it leaks over into the gridiron onto the football field,
it's truly unique. But Spence, what have you been delving
into as far as your topics are concerned this week
(06:54):
thus far? What have you delved into as far as
from your pulpit, what you've pontificated.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
On how similar these programs are now and how similar
these teams are now and how they want to play
the same way. I mean, I started to notice really
a few years back, but it was heightened when Jay
was hired. It was heightened when they hired Jay that
BYU is now covered on a national scale and written
(07:20):
about on a national scale and talked about on a
national scale the same way Utah is. It's a fast,
physical defense. The defense is now given the benefit of
the doubt at BYU in a way that it wasn't
back in the day. And it's not to say, like
I had Jim Herman on the show on Monday, defensive
end for that eighty four national championship team. It's not
to say they didn't have great defenses here or there,
(07:43):
but the defenses were overshadowed by the Steve Youngs and
the Jim McMahons and ty deveryn Win's a heisman. I mean, BYU.
Their reputation was great quarterbacks, Lavell the inventor, pioneer of
the modern day forward passing game. And so there were defenses. Certainly,
you can't win a national championship or a bunch of
conference championships without great defenses. But now it's like, well,
(08:07):
i'll give you. For instance, when the Rex last stuff
went down, no part of me thought, Okay, that's a
damning piece of info for BYU this year. No part
of me thought that that was going to change the
scope of who they could be because I know Jay Hill,
and I know that defensive personnel, and Keanu transfers to BYU,
and you have potentially the best linebacking duo in the
(08:27):
Big twelve with Glasker and Kelly. Oh, by the way, Realk,
is Jack gonna play? You guys know as Jack playing.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I mean, there were flirtations with him playing last week.
I imagine, I imagine he will try to give it
a go. I wonder if he'll be cleared right like
the shoulder injury. Yeah, you know, he could probably play,
but there could be contrary indications if he were to
dislocate or injury it again. So I think it'll be
(08:55):
kind of a collaborative effort. But they may, I mean,
the medical staff may just say we're not allowing you
to do this because of long term injury. But you
know Jack's going to try to play obviously.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, for sure. But back to the point, just really
it's looking in a mirror. You have two dynamic quarterbacks.
You have two dynamic athletes, a quarterback that will run,
and two offensive coordinators that want their quarterback to run.
BYU has a bell cow in LJ. Utah splits the
(09:28):
carries between the Kari Rodgers and Wahaunt Parker. But it's
funny if you combine the production of Parker and Rogers,
it's pretty close to who LJ is just individually. So
it's you know, the two quarterbacks are going to rush.
They've got running backs that will also run the football,
and they want to run. A rod wants to run,
(09:48):
Jason Beck wants to run BYU's offensive line I think
has been better than I thought they were going to be.
In Utah's offensive line is potentially the best in the
Big twelve, and maybe one of the top two or
three units in the country there. You know, it didn't
used to be like this, But it's like looking in
a mirror, right, I mean, the teams are similar, the
coaching staff across pollination, the Utah lums On BYU staff,
(10:11):
the b YU lums On Utah staff, you know. So
ultimately that's kind of been one of the main things
we've been discussing, just how in the modern day, with
Kolani now ten years building this program up, how how
similar they are now and that didn't used to be
the case.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah. No, I called it the Spider Man meme, you know,
because I'm not all that yet, right, but that's what
I see like amongst the that this generation. It's the
Spider Man meme. And in one of the things we
delve into, because you really brought up some great points
about this mirror of this mirror effect that we're seeing
in the cross pollination, we kind of delved into the
objective metrics of who's the better quarterback leading their respective teams,
(10:51):
you know, Devin Dampier or Bear Bachmeyer, and you look
up their stats and you're like, oh my gosh, these
guys are the same freaking dude. Objectively speaking on the
statistical outputs, I don't know if you've looked at I
just actually sent you some of the comparative stats. But
you know, who's the better quarterback here? Are they just
the same?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah? Yeah, it's a fair question. And it's interesting because
you know Bears as a freshman, he had a couple
of shaky moments against Arizona. That's to be expected. If
you're going to go with a true freshman, you're probably
accepting that there are going to be some moments in
big games where he's just going to look like he's eighteen, right,
(11:33):
And and so you know at a Roun on the
show and a Rod's assertion is this is a new
challenge for Bear, even if it's if it's at home.
They have not seen a defense like Utahs. They've not
seen a physical team like Utahs. So as far as
who the better quarterback is, I would probably lean Devin
a little bit right now, only because he's played more
(11:54):
college football. But there's not a big gap. And if
you're a BYU fan, I think it's really really interesting
to just witness what this young kid will do under
the brightest lights of his career. By far, and my
trepidation with Devin was can he do what he did
in New Mexico against big twelve defenses? A little nervous
(12:15):
about the passing numbers a year ago. You know, it's
interesting to dig into data. You also have to take
into account who these teams have played. So, for instance,
like ASU came into saw Lake last week and the
data indicated their rush defense was really good, but they
were susceptible through the air, and so all week I'm like, well,
(12:37):
Devon's gonna have to throw it twenty five thirty times.
He threw it twelve times. You know, they just lined
up across from ASU and just bullied them. And these
Utah offensive linemen it's like watching a bar bouncer. They're
picking these defensive linemen up and they're throwing them. Now,
will they be able to do that against the BYU
front that is also big, physical and wants to get
(12:59):
off the quarterback. I mean it's a I think it's
a now. Now, Utah has played a really good football
team in Texas Tech, but the offensive line got handled.
I mean those Tech defensive linemen, those two g NS
or NFL guys, right, So Utah has seen a physical
front didn't pass the test, will be able to pass
the test against a front that's probably more physical than
(13:21):
any team they've played against outside of Tech. This game,
I think will be one lost in the trenches. But
as far as who the better quarterback is right now,
I probably go Devin slightly. But the potential this Bear
kid has, I think is through the roof. I think
it should be exciting if you're a BYU fan.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, another thing I debated, and I've pulled up a
number of analytics Sagarin FPI, you know, try to get
a good feel for what the strength of schedule has been.
I didn't find a huge disparity, but let's go with
ESPN FPI. Utah is seventy first in the country in
their strength of schedule. I found that interesting. In Baus
at eighty fifth, so slightly more difficult schedule, and that's
(14:01):
maybe why Utah is favored going into this game because
of the form and fashion which they've won their slight
in ESPN SP plus from an efficiency metric, I think
Utah is at eighteen and Bous at twenty three. So
all of the data points are like, man, these guys,
these are these guys are the spider Man me. These
(14:21):
these are very similar programs in so many ways, and
I wonder is it a good thing or a bad
thing to have two quarterbacks that don't know anything about
this rivalry game, have no idea what they're getting into,
they've never experienced, as they're coming from different places on
geographically speaking, from different programs. Is it a good thing
(14:42):
or a bad thing that they don't have that like
upbringing with this rivalry lore surrounding them.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, it's a really good question. It's a good point
and something I've discussed with both Wit and a Rod
this week. We're hoping to get Kalanie before the game
because once upon a time, I mean the coaching staff,
as we've already discussed, you know, they're familiar because a
lot of them either played or coached at the other
school that they're coaching against now. But the recruiting footprint
(15:12):
that both these programs have developed, I mean, you just
look at the rosters. It's Texas, it's Florida, it's Carolina.
I mean, it's everywhere. It's all across the country, and
that brings a unique element here as far as how
do you approach this week from the standpoint of helping
these players understand the magnitude of this game, or do
(15:33):
you want to lean into that to the point where
it could be too much, And then you get in
their head. Do you like the fact that they're just like, oh, yeah,
we're just playing another team this week, and I don't
really know what the answer is. I think that's an
interesting dynamics to consider. For instance, you know, my understanding
of the way Bronco used to coach this week was
simply their nameless, faceless players and it's another game.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, it's like a John woodwere Roah, he took a
job with the front Yeah that's what he would do.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Whereas Wit it's very clear like, no, we
don't lose to those guys. This is different. So you
run the risk of over hyping it to the point
because these are still young people whose frontal cortex is
still developing. Not to get too deep in the weeds,
but you know, you do not want to overhype a
young person to the point where they freeze when the
(16:23):
lights go on. So the balance between yes, this is
a rival and we don't lose to them, and you
just still have to prepare the same way this week
that's where this chess match between these two coaching staffs.
I think it's really really interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Give me your opinion on the dynamics of how these
coaches have, you know, maybe approach this this ribvaly through
how they articulate it. Right, So Kyle Whittingham seems to
be a little bit more like you know, petty, right,
he won't mention the name of BYU won't del then
he doesn't want to and the details you know, called
(17:01):
it the in state rivalry for years, and he just
kind of allude to the fact like, oh no, our
rivals are USC now in Colorado and other things, and look,
that's all finding well. But even in there is me
recent media press conference, it did kind of oz once
again of that petty competitor that has made him great
by the way, Klania, on the other hand, he's his
jovial self, full of gratitude, full of of kind of love,
(17:26):
you know, his love and learning mentality. Give me the
dichotomy of these two ways to coach from your perspective,
the good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly of it all.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So I don't know this to be true because he's
never said this to me, but based off of the
way that Kyle approaches this week, I think he I
think he feels like that there are tremendous amounts of
DYU alums BYU fans, BYU people that have never forgiven
(18:00):
him for saying no to his alma mater and saying
yes to the rival of his alma mater. You know,
there are stories about his family getting into it with
BYU fans. I do. I wasn't there, so I don't
know what happened with his wife and son. It's very
easy to go online and see how many BYU fans
(18:23):
have disparaging things to say about Kyle. So he's never
said this to me, so I don't know it to
be true, But based off of his decision to use
some of the language you outlined, I think he's there's
a part of him that is either hurt or upset
at some of the things that BYU fans have said
(18:44):
and done to he and his family. That's my guess.
I don't know. Now. On the other side of it,
Klanie is just the best dude. He just is Like,
if you don't like Kilanie, it's a you problem, right,
And so that's who he is as a person. That's
who he is as a coach. Now he wants to
beat your brains in. Don't get me wrong. I mean,
Colanie is as competitive as anybody between the lines, but
(19:07):
when it comes to the way he just approaches life,
that's just who he is. When Colonie was the defensive
coordinator up here, I did a coaches show with him
every week, and so we became friends, and I genuinely
feel like Kilanie is somebody who I could call if
I needed to talk to somebody. And when I had
him on the show last month, as he was exiting
(19:28):
the interview, he said, Hey, don't forget I love you, bro.
And there's no way Kyle would ever say that to me,
even though I known Kyle forever. You know, It's it's
just there's similarities as far as how they believe football
should be played. And I'm not saying Kyle is not
a loving, kind person. I'm just saying Colonne is on
(19:49):
a level that most people aren't, let alone, coaches aren't
now lost in the whole, like Kyle wouldn't say anything
about Bear. Five minutes later, he gave an affe. You know,
he was praising Colonnie effusively. You know, with a question
he was asked five minutes after that. I can't speak
to why Kyle Whittingham was very willing to break down
(20:10):
the game of Sam Levitt and didn't want to hear
anything about Bart. I don't know. I thought that was
a kind of an odd way to approach it. But
if I had to reduce it to one thing, my
guess would be there's a part of him it's either hurt, angry,
or whatever at some of the treatment he feels like
maybe he's received from the YU fan base.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah. No, I think, Look, we're a compilation of our anecdotes, right,
whether we want to believe that or not. In our
confirmation bias typically run strong, you know, and those experience,
those experiences cannot be you know, cast away so easily.
It's just a part of who we are as humans.
(20:48):
So I think that's point of commentary, and it's probably
accurate commentary. And I think from a BAU fan based standpoint,
I think the whole empathy of like who that person
is and what they've experienced needs to all so be discussed.
Now let me transition to this, and I think we
may have discussed it last time I had you on,
but I've gone through this debate in my mind about
the legacy of coywitting him indubitably he is the greatest
(21:11):
University of Utah coach all time? Right, football coach all time?
Is that legacy built more so off of winning the
rivalry in a dominant fashion? Or you know, double digit
win seasons, shared Pac twelve titles, you know some remarkable
You know that two thousand and eight season as a
(21:32):
head coach was remarkable, one of their best teams ever,
maybe their best team ever, et cetera. Like Where is
it more foundationally built as it pertains to maybe the
consumers right, because the media and the fans ultimately and
to a certain degree maybe with the school itself, determines
the kind of the legacy of a coach, I think,
(21:53):
and how they're immortalized. Is it based more so off
of dominating the rivalry game? Or is it built off
of the other wins, the double digit win seasons, the
big bowl games that they attended, etc.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Do you think I think it's a few things. I
think you hit a couple of dynamics there that are important.
I think, again, not to overuse the term, but if
I could reduce it to one thing. You know, football
fans in the state of a certain age, namely mine,
our formative years were spent watching BYU kick Utah's head
(22:28):
in every year after Levell took over. I think it
was nineteen and two and twenty one years after Levell
took over before Mac took the job. But when even
when Mac took the job and he and Levell became
friendly and they were doing the commercial and Utah was
able to get some wins, I think they won three
straight in provo, there still was this feeling that BYU
(22:49):
was the better program overall and BYU was kind of
like the cooler program overall, right, because they had the
more conference championships, they had Heisman Trophy winners, they had
more NFL plas, and Matt started to change that a
little bit. So when Urban came here, he actually made
Utah football cool in a way that it wasn't prior
to him coming here. And that two thousand and four team,
(23:13):
I think two thousand and four is the best team
that we've ever had in the state. That's my opinion,
certainly the best Utah team I think by far. My
two thousand and eight Utah football friends won't love this
but I think two thousand and four stops him. But
Urban was only here for a moment in time, So
there was this seminal moment where Mac lays the foundation,
(23:33):
Urban starts to build the house, but then he leaves,
and so then it's like, okay, wait, we had this
two year period where suddenly Utah football was cool and
they were beating BYU and they go to a Fiesta
Bowl and they stomp it and they're undefeated and Alex
Smith is the number one pick in the draft, and like, okay,
Utah Football's pool again. But holy smokes, there's eight moments
(23:56):
where you feel like the guy who can continue it
is with But then the job comes open at BYU
and everybody thought he was gone. And I've had a
couple like Jim Herman told the story on my show
this week that was wild. Lavelle was being inducted into
the College Football Hall of Fame and Jim met Steve
(24:18):
Young to drive to the ceremony together, and when they
were in the car, Witt called them and said, I'm
coming home. I'm taking the BYU job. And they hang
up and they celebrate and like, sweet Kyle's coming back,
you know, because Kyle's the guy that both schools wanted,
and everybody knew that this was the coach, that this
(24:39):
decision was going to be paramount to the direction of
both programs, whatever that meant. And so when Kyle said
no to BYU and yes to Utah, that will endear
him to people up here forever. Okay, and then you
wrap see two thousand and eight is very very key
in this conversation because you know, Cincinnati went to a
(25:02):
CFP a couple of years ago, TC like a lot
of schools Boise State at a moment time, that's a
good program. I'm not trying to diminish, but there are
plenty of schools that can find lightning in a bottle,
plenty of teams and find lightning in a bottle and
maybe have an undefeated season once and then they're back
into the ether and you never hear from them again.
(25:23):
The fact that Kyle was able to replicate it in
two thousand and eight and go to a Sugar Bowl
and beat Alabama of all teams, of all programs, and
to beat Alabama and do that again and be the
BCS buster and then you get the Pac twelve invite. Right.
So the two seminal moments that will always, in my opinion,
(25:46):
put Utah football in or trajectory that it took BYU
football a little while to come back from. And they're
there now. Obviously they've won the last two and it's
been four years since Utah one. Are Kyle Whittingham saying
no to his alma mater and yes to the rival
of aolma mater, And then the PAC twelve didn't by
becoming a reality, and then the fact that they went
to two Rose Bulls, I mean lost both of them obviously,
(26:10):
But I can remember the first year in the PAC twelve.
I was doing the show at the time, as you remember,
being with Gordon Moson. It was our old show on
the old station, and we had a couple of PAC
twelve media members on our show and asked them a question,
how long until Utah goes to a Rose Bowl? And
they both said, like, oh, twenty five thirty years, right,
because so many programs in the PAC twelve had never
(26:32):
even gone. And the fact that it took I don't know,
six seven years, I believe, just to make the Rose Bowl.
Utah football in the Rose Bowl winning PAC twelve championship
sharing Pact twel championships, needing a bunch of things to
go their way, but nonetheless, the final result is the
final result. Just going to a Rose Bowl. You know,
there was an article written up here I think it was.
(26:54):
I think it was the trip that went into just
how much free publicity Rose Bull appearances are for the
institution of the University of Utah. It was like thirty
three million eyes on Utah as a school as a
result of the football program, just going to the Rose Bowl,
you know. So, Yes, it's two thousand and eight DCS busting,
(27:17):
it's getting invited to the Pac twelve, it's winning at
a high level. But don't underestimate the impact of that
seminal moment when Kyle said no to BYU and yes
to Utah, and what that meant to people up here
that lived a generation of BYU football being better than Utah,
being cooler than Utah, and more or less beating Utah
(27:38):
had to head almost every single year.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, Oh, you know, powerful commentary. I think you're spot on,
And what I'll I'd have wrinkle to it that I
don't know if we'll ever know unless Kyle would speak
to it on record, But I often wonder you know
what Lavelle advised Kyle to do in the those moments.
(28:00):
Remember Lavelle was, you know, he you know, I remember
hearing you know, mostly rumor, right, and they're from second
hand sources that were like his personal assistant and kind
of our second mom while we were there as BAU
football players. She stated, like, you know, Lavelle had yag
grown tired, but there was kind of a movement in
(28:21):
upper campus that disallowed his involvement with mentorship with players
going through maybe honor code or academic issues. Right, what
does a football coach do? You know, you know you've
been coached before, they mentor they advise, they rear you
as an extension of your family. That's what a great
coach is traditionally done. And I wonder if Lavell said, look,
(28:44):
this is the state of BYU athletics right now. It's great,
it's marvelous. There's all these special things. But where which
institution is moving in the direction of like high level
winning and support institutionally? And I wonder if maybe there
is is a you know, there was something there that
he that that Kyle kind of after discussing it further
(29:06):
with Levell, maybe he decided, Hey, you know, I'm gonna
I'm gonna go to the university. I think it would
be interesting. I don't know if it happened, but I wonder.
I mean, Lavell had to have been consulted in those
moments and his opinion had to have mattered, right.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
That would be my guess. But a couple of things.
I think that in that moment after so after two
thousand and four, when Urban came here and changed everything,
created the muss created language that is still used to
this day. Team down South brought a very Michigan, Ohio
state feel to it. You know, that two year period
(29:42):
cannot go without being talked about and acknowledged in a
very very seminal important way because what that did, in
addition to some initiatives at the university research institutions on one,
Utah football was then on the radar of the PAC
twelve right in a way that BYU football just wasn't
(30:03):
for a myriad of different reasons that we get into
and I know some people aren't comfortable with the whole like, yeah,
they're just not going to be into a religious school.
It's not a cultural fit, it's not a political fit.
You can be uncomfortable with it all you want, but
that's part of the deal. So I'm sure Kyle saw,
wait a second, there's a chance that we will get
(30:24):
a P five And obviously now it's before, but there's
a chance that this could be a P five institution.
And any football coach would know if it's staying in
a Mountain West or going independent as BYU did, or
getting an invite to the PAC twelve. If you're a
coach and you want the best chance to win, and
you want the best chance to make money, let's be honest,
(30:45):
the PAC twelve fit is going to be your preference.
And by the way, speaking of money, I'm sure well
I know that there were Utah boosters that in the
twenty fourth hour came to Doc Trail and said how
much is it going to take to keep them? So
there was a check written and and Kyle was paid
(31:07):
to coach here in a way that BYU just wasn't
going to pay him. And look, I adhere to the
golden rule. Man, we all know the golden rules. You
know what the golden rule is?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
What is the golden rule?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well, we know the classic definition of the golden rule. Right,
do one to other's all that stuff and all that's great,
you should do that. Okay, In fact, this week, let's
all it's all adhere to that golden rule. But the
other golden rule that you learn as you age and
certainly understand this business is the man with the gold
makes the rules. Okay, there's your golden rule. The man
(31:38):
with the gold makes the rules. So the monetary compensation
that went received to stay here is certainly part of
the equation, but definitely understanding that the Pac twelve was
a potential reality for Utah football in the way that
it was never going to be for by I mean, look,
Bronco left because he got paid, but he also left
(32:01):
because independence was going to be a really tough route, right,
And so I'm sure part of that was steeked in
Kyle's decision making process. Was the Bell involved, I honestly
don't know. To your point, it would be pretty criminal
if you don't kick the tires on what a legend
like that thinks. But it's been interesting, you know, to
(32:22):
have this two decade run with with up here and
to see what he's built, and I think this is
probably it for him, which is another topic we can
get into as you want, but I honestly don't know.
We have to see.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, I can't wait to see what happens if Kyle
goes out a winner in this game. I think he
retires if he doesn't get a win at Lavelle Edwards Stadium. Man,
he could be trying to come back for another one,
to give it one last shot. Spence check its, ladies
and gentlemen to drive on ESPN seven hundred, follow him
on X for all of his takes, and listen to
him on the radio on the stream on his podcast
(32:56):
Spence We Solutionally. We appreciate you man, thanks for joining
us today for an insider slash know the faux segment.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Always a pleasure. Man, had a great week with chatsan Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
My pleasure, my blessings, Bence Schek's Ldies and gentlemen. That
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(01:04):
let's get out to the hotline. Welcome in. University of
Utah Insider, Utah Jazz Insider. He's got his own show
on the ESPN seven hundred airwaves of the Afternoon Drive
two to six pm. It's the Drive with Spence. Check
it's He's on the line, Spence. How you living, brother?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I'm good man. I love this week. It's been really
fun so far. Looking forward to the rest of it
and looking forward to what I think he's going to
be an epic historic Saturday night in Provo for the
people that will be in Provo.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah. How unique in singular is it to have the
rivalry back in the same conference. Right? For too long
they were separated by conference affiliation, years were taken off.
You know, I always felt like the student athlete was
the one that was deprived of these unique and singular
competitive experiences. We know that college football was built on rivalries.
(01:55):
How special is it now for these student athletes the
community to have it the time and place it's at
right now with the conference affiliation included.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Well, the conference affiliation and the fact that both teams
are still very much alive and in the race to
win the conference, and if you are there at the end,
and there really is a dynamic in play that this
conference could get two teams in if the cards fall
where they need to fall. And neither of these programs
(02:25):
has ever been to a CFP. The fourth time in history,
these two teams have been ranked in the AP Top
twenty five. Fox Big Noon in Town, I mean, with
a prime time slot and the game on Fox, there
is a chance this will be the most watched game
in the one hundred plus year history of Utah BYU football.
I think more people will be exposed to this rivalry
(02:48):
than have ever been exposed to it before. And there's
so much on the line. There's always a lot on
the line. I mean, these two teams could stink and
there would be a lot on the line, but they're
both really good and BYU passed every test that's been
put to them so far. Utah loss to a team
who I think, you know, it's probably time to say
Texas Tech isn't just potentially the best team in the
(03:09):
Big twelve, but maybe one of the top five or
sixteams in the country. So a lot on the line.
Primetime slot night games in Provo are a lot of fun.
That stadium is going to be loud and proud, and
millions of people across the country will be exposed to it.
So very much looking forward to Saturday night. Compelling, compelling stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah, over the last thirty years, I was kind of
running the numbers, and let's say thirty one years going
back to when Ronnie Mack took over the program at
the University of Utah. Since that moment, the rivalry shifted
and Utah became the winner of this rivalry. Nineteen wins
for them, twelve losses. So b Wait only has twelve
wins in that span of time, and most of those
(03:50):
wins came in the independent era for BYU, in the
PAC twelve era for the University of Utah, and many
of those any of those games, I think we're decided
by one score, like eight or less points. And so
I don't know you mentioned the national coverage of this.
I don't know, and you maybe have a better finger
(04:13):
on the pulse of the national scene a bit because
you've been around, you have many connections around the country.
Do they really know what this rivalry is all about?
The emotion, the religion aspect, the communal aspect of it, Like,
do they really know what this rivalry is all about? Spence?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I don't think you can unless you have lived here.
I don't think you can unless you've played in the game,
coached in the game, attended one of the schools covered
this game. I mean it's I think from a macro standpoint,
people respect it and get that it's heated, But unless
(04:56):
you've been in the mix, I don't think there's any
way you POSSI can. I mean, it's it's unique for
me because my grandfather may he Rest in Peace, was
a Cougar Club member, and so I started going to
this game when I was two, and you know, throughout
the course of my upbringing, even when we moved back East,
I made sure to stay locked into this game. I
(05:19):
would stay up until midnight back East, even to watch
BYU and Utah basketball back at Big Mondays back in
the day. Then I moved back out here, I went
to the U. All five of my siblings went to BYU.
All five of my siblings met their spouse at BYU.
My dad went to both schools, so he'll tell you that,
you know, he walks the defense. But my parents both
(05:41):
went to BYU. And so I've been either going to
this game, attending this game, or covering this game for
basically forty five years. I'll tell you how old I am,
and obviously you played. So to answer your question, I
do think from a macro stand, it's respected and it's
(06:01):
understood how big it is by people that cover the
sport or love college football. But I just don't think
there's any way you can fully understand it unless you've
been in it for a long time.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, I'm currently trying to pen a piece about this
rivalry game, you know, and how like these different elements
that make it super unique to our community. And coming
from the state of Arizona, I had no idea what
this rivalry was about until I experienced it for myself,
and I'm gonna try to put it into words. It'll
(06:33):
be interesting to see how it's received. The tribalism, the enmity,
the social comparison, like the competitive comparison culture that we
all fall prey to in our social lives, but how
it leaks over into the gridiron onto the football field,
it's truly unique. But Spence, what have you been delving
into as far as your topics are concerned this week
(06:54):
thus far? What have you delved into as far as
from your pulpit, what you've pontificated.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
On how similar these programs are now and how similar
these teams are now and how they want to play
the same way. I mean, I started to notice really
a few years back, but it was heightened when Jay
was hired. It was heightened when they hired Jay that
BYU is now covered on a national scale and written
(07:20):
about on a national scale and talked about on a
national scale the same way Utah is. It's a fast,
physical defense. The defense is now given the benefit of
the doubt at BYU in a way that it wasn't
back in the day. And it's not to say, like
I had Jim Herman on the show on Monday, defensive
end for that eighty four national championship team. It's not
to say they didn't have great defenses here or there,
(07:43):
but the defenses were overshadowed by the Steve Youngs and
the Jim McMahons and ty deveryn Win's a heisman. I mean, BYU.
Their reputation was great quarterbacks, Lavell the inventor, pioneer of
the modern day forward passing game. And so there were defenses. Certainly,
you can't win a national championship or a bunch of
conference championships without great defenses. But now it's like, well,
(08:07):
i'll give you. For instance, when the Rex last stuff
went down, no part of me thought, Okay, that's a
damning piece of info for BYU this year. No part
of me thought that that was going to change the
scope of who they could be because I know Jay Hill,
and I know that defensive personnel, and Keanu transfers to BYU,
and you have potentially the best linebacking duo in the
(08:27):
Big twelve with Glasker and Kelly. Oh, by the way, Realk,
is Jack gonna play? You guys know as Jack playing.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I mean, there were flirtations with him playing last week.
I imagine, I imagine he will try to give it
a go. I wonder if he'll be cleared right like
the shoulder injury. Yeah, you know, he could probably play,
but there could be contrary indications if he were to
dislocate or injury it again. So I think it'll be
(08:55):
kind of a collaborative effort. But they may, I mean,
the medical staff may just say we're not allowing you
to do this because of long term injury. But you
know Jack's going to try to play obviously.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, for sure. But back to the point, just really
it's looking in a mirror. You have two dynamic quarterbacks.
You have two dynamic athletes, a quarterback that will run,
and two offensive coordinators that want their quarterback to run.
BYU has a bell cow in LJ. Utah splits the
(09:28):
carries between the Kari Rodgers and Wahaunt Parker. But it's
funny if you combine the production of Parker and Rogers,
it's pretty close to who LJ is just individually. So
it's you know, the two quarterbacks are going to rush.
They've got running backs that will also run the football,
and they want to run. A rod wants to run,
(09:48):
Jason Beck wants to run BYU's offensive line I think
has been better than I thought they were going to be.
In Utah's offensive line is potentially the best in the
Big twelve, and maybe one of the top two or
three units in the country there. You know, it didn't
used to be like this, But it's like looking in
a mirror, right, I mean, the teams are similar, the
coaching staff across pollination, the Utah lums On BYU staff,
(10:11):
the b YU lums On Utah staff, you know. So
ultimately that's kind of been one of the main things
we've been discussing, just how in the modern day, with
Kolani now ten years building this program up, how how
similar they are now and that didn't used to be
the case.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah. No, I called it the Spider Man meme, you know,
because I'm not all that yet, right, but that's what
I see like amongst the that this generation. It's the
Spider Man meme. And in one of the things we
delve into, because you really brought up some great points
about this mirror of this mirror effect that we're seeing
in the cross pollination, we kind of delved into the
objective metrics of who's the better quarterback leading their respective teams,
(10:51):
you know, Devin Dampier or Bear Bachmeyer, and you look
up their stats and you're like, oh my gosh, these
guys are the same freaking dude. Objectively speaking on the
statistical outputs, I don't know if you've looked at I
just actually sent you some of the comparative stats. But
you know, who's the better quarterback here? Are they just
the same?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah? Yeah, it's a fair question. And it's interesting because
you know Bears as a freshman, he had a couple
of shaky moments against Arizona. That's to be expected. If
you're going to go with a true freshman, you're probably
accepting that there are going to be some moments in
big games where he's just going to look like he's eighteen, right,
(11:33):
And and so you know at a Roun on the
show and a Rod's assertion is this is a new
challenge for Bear, even if it's if it's at home.
They have not seen a defense like Utahs. They've not
seen a physical team like Utahs. So as far as
who the better quarterback is, I would probably lean Devin
a little bit right now, only because he's played more
(11:54):
college football. But there's not a big gap. And if
you're a BYU fan, I think it's really really interesting
to just witness what this young kid will do under
the brightest lights of his career. By far, and my
trepidation with Devin was can he do what he did
in New Mexico against big twelve defenses? A little nervous
(12:15):
about the passing numbers a year ago. You know, it's
interesting to dig into data. You also have to take
into account who these teams have played. So, for instance,
like ASU came into saw Lake last week and the
data indicated their rush defense was really good, but they
were susceptible through the air, and so all week I'm like, well,
(12:37):
Devon's gonna have to throw it twenty five thirty times.
He threw it twelve times. You know, they just lined
up across from ASU and just bullied them. And these
Utah offensive linemen it's like watching a bar bouncer. They're
picking these defensive linemen up and they're throwing them. Now,
will they be able to do that against the BYU
front that is also big, physical and wants to get
(12:59):
off the quarterback. I mean it's a I think it's
a now. Now, Utah has played a really good football
team in Texas Tech, but the offensive line got handled.
I mean those Tech defensive linemen, those two g NS
or NFL guys, right, So Utah has seen a physical
front didn't pass the test, will be able to pass
the test against a front that's probably more physical than
(13:21):
any team they've played against outside of Tech. This game,
I think will be one lost in the trenches. But
as far as who the better quarterback is right now,
I probably go Devin slightly. But the potential this Bear
kid has, I think is through the roof. I think
it should be exciting if you're a BYU fan.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, another thing I debated, and I've pulled up a
number of analytics Sagarin FPI, you know, try to get
a good feel for what the strength of schedule has been.
I didn't find a huge disparity, but let's go with
ESPN FPI. Utah is seventy first in the country in
their strength of schedule. I found that interesting. In Baus
at eighty fifth, so slightly more difficult schedule, and that's
(14:01):
maybe why Utah is favored going into this game because
of the form and fashion which they've won their slight
in ESPN SP plus from an efficiency metric, I think
Utah is at eighteen and Bous at twenty three. So
all of the data points are like, man, these guys,
these are these guys are the spider Man me. These
(14:21):
these are very similar programs in so many ways, and
I wonder is it a good thing or a bad
thing to have two quarterbacks that don't know anything about
this rivalry game, have no idea what they're getting into,
they've never experienced, as they're coming from different places on
geographically speaking, from different programs. Is it a good thing
(14:42):
or a bad thing that they don't have that like
upbringing with this rivalry lore surrounding them.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, it's a really good question. It's a good point
and something I've discussed with both Wit and a Rod
this week. We're hoping to get Kalanie before the game
because once upon a time, I mean the coaching staff,
as we've already discussed, you know, they're familiar because a
lot of them either played or coached at the other
school that they're coaching against now. But the recruiting footprint
(15:12):
that both these programs have developed, I mean, you just
look at the rosters. It's Texas, it's Florida, it's Carolina.
I mean, it's everywhere. It's all across the country, and
that brings a unique element here as far as how
do you approach this week from the standpoint of helping
these players understand the magnitude of this game, or do
(15:33):
you want to lean into that to the point where
it could be too much, And then you get in
their head. Do you like the fact that they're just like, oh, yeah,
we're just playing another team this week, and I don't
really know what the answer is. I think that's an
interesting dynamics to consider. For instance, you know, my understanding
of the way Bronco used to coach this week was
simply their nameless, faceless players and it's another game.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, it's like a John woodwere Roah, he took a
job with the front Yeah that's what he would do.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Yeah. Yeah. Whereas Wit it's very clear like, no, we
don't lose to those guys. This is different. So you
run the risk of over hyping it to the point
because these are still young people whose frontal cortex is
still developing. Not to get too deep in the weeds,
but you know, you do not want to overhype a
young person to the point where they freeze when the
(16:23):
lights go on. So the balance between yes, this is
a rival and we don't lose to them, and you
just still have to prepare the same way this week
that's where this chess match between these two coaching staffs.
I think it's really really interesting.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Give me your opinion on the dynamics of how these
coaches have, you know, maybe approach this this ribvaly through
how they articulate it. Right, So Kyle Whittingham seems to
be a little bit more like you know, petty, right,
he won't mention the name of BYU won't del then
he doesn't want to and the details you know, called
(17:01):
it the in state rivalry for years, and he just
kind of allude to the fact like, oh no, our
rivals are USC now in Colorado and other things, and look,
that's all finding well. But even in there is me
recent media press conference, it did kind of oz once
again of that petty competitor that has made him great
by the way, Klania, on the other hand, he's his
jovial self, full of gratitude, full of of kind of love,
(17:26):
you know, his love and learning mentality. Give me the
dichotomy of these two ways to coach from your perspective,
the good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly of it all.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
So I don't know this to be true because he's
never said this to me, but based off of the
way that Kyle approaches this week, I think he I
think he feels like that there are tremendous amounts of
DYU alums BYU fans, BYU people that have never forgiven
(18:00):
him for saying no to his alma mater and saying
yes to the rival of his alma mater. You know,
there are stories about his family getting into it with
BYU fans. I do. I wasn't there, so I don't
know what happened with his wife and son. It's very
easy to go online and see how many BYU fans
(18:23):
have disparaging things to say about Kyle. So he's never
said this to me, so I don't know it to
be true, But based off of his decision to use
some of the language you outlined, I think he's there's
a part of him that is either hurt or upset
at some of the things that BYU fans have said
(18:44):
and done to he and his family. That's my guess.
I don't know. Now. On the other side of it,
Klanie is just the best dude. He just is Like,
if you don't like Kilanie, it's a you problem, right,
And so that's who he is as a person. That's
who he is as a coach. Now he wants to
beat your brains in. Don't get me wrong. I mean,
Colanie is as competitive as anybody between the lines, but
(19:07):
when it comes to the way he just approaches life,
that's just who he is. When Colonie was the defensive
coordinator up here, I did a coaches show with him
every week, and so we became friends, and I genuinely
feel like Kilanie is somebody who I could call if
I needed to talk to somebody. And when I had
him on the show last month, as he was exiting
(19:28):
the interview, he said, Hey, don't forget I love you, bro.
And there's no way Kyle would ever say that to me,
even though I known Kyle forever. You know, It's it's
just there's similarities as far as how they believe football
should be played. And I'm not saying Kyle is not
a loving, kind person. I'm just saying Colonne is on
(19:49):
a level that most people aren't, let alone, coaches aren't
now lost in the whole, like Kyle wouldn't say anything
about Bear. Five minutes later, he gave an affe. You know,
he was praising Colonnie effusively. You know, with a question
he was asked five minutes after that. I can't speak
to why Kyle Whittingham was very willing to break down
(20:10):
the game of Sam Levitt and didn't want to hear
anything about Bart. I don't know. I thought that was
a kind of an odd way to approach it. But
if I had to reduce it to one thing, my
guess would be there's a part of him it's either hurt, angry,
or whatever at some of the treatment he feels like
maybe he's received from the YU fan base.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah. No, I think, Look, we're a compilation of our anecdotes, right,
whether we want to believe that or not. In our
confirmation bias typically run strong, you know, and those experience,
those experiences cannot be you know, cast away so easily.
It's just a part of who we are as humans.
(20:48):
So I think that's point of commentary, and it's probably
accurate commentary. And I think from a BAU fan based standpoint,
I think the whole empathy of like who that person
is and what they've experienced needs to all so be discussed.
Now let me transition to this, and I think we
may have discussed it last time I had you on,
but I've gone through this debate in my mind about
the legacy of coywitting him indubitably he is the greatest
(21:11):
University of Utah coach all time? Right, football coach all time?
Is that legacy built more so off of winning the
rivalry in a dominant fashion? Or you know, double digit
win seasons, shared Pac twelve titles, you know some remarkable
You know that two thousand and eight season as a
(21:32):
head coach was remarkable, one of their best teams ever,
maybe their best team ever, et cetera. Like Where is
it more foundationally built as it pertains to maybe the
consumers right, because the media and the fans ultimately and
to a certain degree maybe with the school itself, determines
the kind of the legacy of a coach, I think,
(21:53):
and how they're immortalized. Is it based more so off
of dominating the rivalry game? Or is it built off
of the other wins, the double digit win seasons, the
big bowl games that they attended, etc.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Do you think I think it's a few things. I
think you hit a couple of dynamics there that are important.
I think, again, not to overuse the term, but if
I could reduce it to one thing. You know, football
fans in the state of a certain age, namely mine,
our formative years were spent watching BYU kick Utah's head
(22:28):
in every year after Levell took over. I think it
was nineteen and two and twenty one years after Levell
took over before Mac took the job. But when even
when Mac took the job and he and Levell became
friendly and they were doing the commercial and Utah was
able to get some wins, I think they won three
straight in provo, there still was this feeling that BYU
(22:49):
was the better program overall and BYU was kind of
like the cooler program overall, right, because they had the
more conference championships, they had Heisman Trophy winners, they had
more NFL plas, and Matt started to change that a
little bit. So when Urban came here, he actually made
Utah football cool in a way that it wasn't prior
to him coming here. And that two thousand and four team,
(23:13):
I think two thousand and four is the best team
that we've ever had in the state. That's my opinion,
certainly the best Utah team I think by far. My
two thousand and eight Utah football friends won't love this
but I think two thousand and four stops him. But
Urban was only here for a moment in time, So
there was this seminal moment where Mac lays the foundation,
(23:33):
Urban starts to build the house, but then he leaves,
and so then it's like, okay, wait, we had this
two year period where suddenly Utah football was cool and
they were beating BYU and they go to a Fiesta
Bowl and they stomp it and they're undefeated and Alex
Smith is the number one pick in the draft, and like, okay,
Utah Football's pool again. But holy smokes, there's eight moments
(23:56):
where you feel like the guy who can continue it
is with But then the job comes open at BYU
and everybody thought he was gone. And I've had a
couple like Jim Herman told the story on my show
this week that was wild. Lavelle was being inducted into
the College Football Hall of Fame and Jim met Steve
(24:18):
Young to drive to the ceremony together, and when they
were in the car, Witt called them and said, I'm
coming home. I'm taking the BYU job. And they hang
up and they celebrate and like, sweet Kyle's coming back,
you know, because Kyle's the guy that both schools wanted,
and everybody knew that this was the coach, that this
(24:39):
decision was going to be paramount to the direction of
both programs, whatever that meant. And so when Kyle said
no to BYU and yes to Utah, that will endear
him to people up here forever. Okay, and then you
wrap see two thousand and eight is very very key
in this conversation because you know, Cincinnati went to a
(25:02):
CFP a couple of years ago, TC like a lot
of schools Boise State at a moment time, that's a
good program. I'm not trying to diminish, but there are
plenty of schools that can find lightning in a bottle,
plenty of teams and find lightning in a bottle and
maybe have an undefeated season once and then they're back
into the ether and you never hear from them again.
(25:23):
The fact that Kyle was able to replicate it in
two thousand and eight and go to a Sugar Bowl
and beat Alabama of all teams, of all programs, and
to beat Alabama and do that again and be the
BCS buster and then you get the Pac twelve invite. Right.
So the two seminal moments that will always, in my opinion,
(25:46):
put Utah football in or trajectory that it took BYU
football a little while to come back from. And they're
there now. Obviously they've won the last two and it's
been four years since Utah one. Are Kyle Whittingham saying
no to his alma mater and yes to the rival
of aolma mater, And then the PAC twelve didn't by
becoming a reality, and then the fact that they went
to two Rose Bulls, I mean lost both of them obviously,
(26:10):
But I can remember the first year in the PAC twelve.
I was doing the show at the time, as you remember,
being with Gordon Moson. It was our old show on
the old station, and we had a couple of PAC
twelve media members on our show and asked them a question,
how long until Utah goes to a Rose Bowl? And
they both said, like, oh, twenty five thirty years, right,
because so many programs in the PAC twelve had never
(26:32):
even gone. And the fact that it took I don't know,
six seven years, I believe, just to make the Rose Bowl.
Utah football in the Rose Bowl winning PAC twelve championship
sharing Pact twel championships, needing a bunch of things to
go their way, but nonetheless, the final result is the
final result. Just going to a Rose Bowl. You know,
there was an article written up here I think it was.
(26:54):
I think it was the trip that went into just
how much free publicity Rose Bull appearances are for the
institution of the University of Utah. It was like thirty
three million eyes on Utah as a school as a
result of the football program, just going to the Rose Bowl,
you know. So, Yes, it's two thousand and eight DCS busting,
(27:17):
it's getting invited to the Pac twelve, it's winning at
a high level. But don't underestimate the impact of that
seminal moment when Kyle said no to BYU and yes
to Utah, and what that meant to people up here
that lived a generation of BYU football being better than Utah,
being cooler than Utah, and more or less beating Utah
(27:38):
had to head almost every single year.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Yeah, Oh, you know, powerful commentary. I think you're spot on,
And what I'll I'd have wrinkle to it that I
don't know if we'll ever know unless Kyle would speak
to it on record, But I often wonder you know
what Lavelle advised Kyle to do in the those moments.
(28:00):
Remember Lavelle was, you know, he you know, I remember
hearing you know, mostly rumor, right, and they're from second
hand sources that were like his personal assistant and kind
of our second mom while we were there as BAU
football players. She stated, like, you know, Lavelle had yag
grown tired, but there was kind of a movement in
(28:21):
upper campus that disallowed his involvement with mentorship with players
going through maybe honor code or academic issues. Right, what
does a football coach do? You know, you know you've
been coached before, they mentor they advise, they rear you
as an extension of your family. That's what a great
coach is traditionally done. And I wonder if Lavell said, look,
(28:44):
this is the state of BYU athletics right now. It's great,
it's marvelous. There's all these special things. But where which
institution is moving in the direction of like high level
winning and support institutionally? And I wonder if maybe there
is is a you know, there was something there that
he that that Kyle kind of after discussing it further
(29:06):
with Levell, maybe he decided, Hey, you know, I'm gonna
I'm gonna go to the university. I think it would
be interesting. I don't know if it happened, but I wonder.
I mean, Lavell had to have been consulted in those
moments and his opinion had to have mattered, right.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
That would be my guess. But a couple of things.
I think that in that moment after so after two
thousand and four, when Urban came here and changed everything,
created the muss created language that is still used to
this day. Team down South brought a very Michigan, Ohio
state feel to it. You know, that two year period
(29:42):
cannot go without being talked about and acknowledged in a
very very seminal important way because what that did, in
addition to some initiatives at the university research institutions on one,
Utah football was then on the radar of the PAC
twelve right in a way that BYU football just wasn't
(30:03):
for a myriad of different reasons that we get into
and I know some people aren't comfortable with the whole like, yeah,
they're just not going to be into a religious school.
It's not a cultural fit, it's not a political fit.
You can be uncomfortable with it all you want, but
that's part of the deal. So I'm sure Kyle saw,
wait a second, there's a chance that we will get
(30:24):
a P five And obviously now it's before, but there's
a chance that this could be a P five institution.
And any football coach would know if it's staying in
a Mountain West or going independent as BYU did, or
getting an invite to the PAC twelve. If you're a
coach and you want the best chance to win, and
you want the best chance to make money, let's be honest,
(30:45):
the PAC twelve fit is going to be your preference.
And by the way, speaking of money, I'm sure well
I know that there were Utah boosters that in the
twenty fourth hour came to Doc Trail and said how
much is it going to take to keep them? So
there was a check written and and Kyle was paid
(31:07):
to coach here in a way that BYU just wasn't
going to pay him. And look, I adhere to the
golden rule. Man, we all know the golden rules. You
know what the golden rule is?
Speaker 1 (31:16):
What is the golden rule?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Well, we know the classic definition of the golden rule. Right,
do one to other's all that stuff and all that's great,
you should do that. Okay, In fact, this week, let's
all it's all adhere to that golden rule. But the
other golden rule that you learn as you age and
certainly understand this business is the man with the gold
makes the rules. Okay, there's your golden rule. The man
(31:38):
with the gold makes the rules. So the monetary compensation
that went received to stay here is certainly part of
the equation, but definitely understanding that the Pac twelve was
a potential reality for Utah football in the way that
it was never going to be for by I mean, look,
Bronco left because he got paid, but he also left
(32:01):
because independence was going to be a really tough route, right,
And so I'm sure part of that was steeked in
Kyle's decision making process. Was the Bell involved, I honestly
don't know. To your point, it would be pretty criminal
if you don't kick the tires on what a legend
like that thinks. But it's been interesting, you know, to
(32:22):
have this two decade run with with up here and
to see what he's built, and I think this is
probably it for him, which is another topic we can
get into as you want, but I honestly don't know.
We have to see.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, I can't wait to see what happens if Kyle
goes out a winner in this game. I think he
retires if he doesn't get a win at Lavelle Edwards Stadium. Man,
he could be trying to come back for another one,
to give it one last shot. Spence check its, ladies
and gentlemen to drive on ESPN seven hundred, follow him
on X for all of his takes, and listen to
him on the radio on the stream on his podcast
(32:56):
Spence We Solutionally. We appreciate you man, thanks for joining
us today for an insider slash know the faux segment.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Always a pleasure. Man, had a great week with chatsan Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
My pleasure, my blessings, Bence Schek's Ldies and gentlemen. That
was brought to you by rubisndrubies in dot com. Head
on over to rubies in dot Com Forward Lash nine
sixty get twenty percent off your staycation at Bryce Candon
National Park, the Wonder of the West. We'll take a
brief time out, We'll be back. This is Gugar Sports
on one of three nine ninety eight point three ESPN, the
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