Ben Criddle talks BYU sports every weekday from 2 to 6 pm.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to celebrate the previous team sport known to man,
where modern day gladiators collide for all the glory on
the Gridie, Let's talk some college football on Cougar Sports
with Ben Crittle.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back Cougar Sports. One of three, nine ninety eight
point three ESPN the Fan.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
I've been crital broadcasting from our Banterwell Studios Baterwell dot com.
Get on a free q and a no obligation to
invest QNA with our tax smart wealth advisors. Let's build
wealth today. Let our money work for uh. Let's have
our money work for us rather than we always working
for our money. Hit us up today at Batterwealth Batterwell
dot Comedy. It's time for a little college football segment.
I want to discuss inclurapati. I want to discuss this
(00:35):
Diego PAVIA exemption. Where does Hinkley standard on this? How
many lawsuits have been filed claiming that, uh, this is
an antitrust issue. They're losing out on money, an opportunity
to make money, and should be deemed eligible because they
played junior college football two, three, four, five years ago.
(00:58):
We're going to discuss them with a college football insider
representing extra Points here momentarily going to be brought to
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Speaker 2 (01:35):
Let's get out to the hotline.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Welcome in one of my favorite guests representing extra Points
extra Points MB dot com College Football Inside.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
We got Matt Brown on the line. Matt, how you living?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Hey, I'm doing great. It's excited here to spend some
more time with you guys.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
First and foremost, what have you written about at extra Points?
What can we peruse right now? And how do we
subscribe to the newsletter to get all your contents.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
You want to read about a reporting and unique analysis
about off the field stuff that shapes this industry, You're
going to want to check out Extra Points at extra
Points mb dot com. Two of those newsletters are completely
free every week. Two of them are premium. Earlier today,
we published a bunch of slides from a presentation from
(02:20):
Virginia's Virginia techs Athletic Director to their board of visitors
about how the ACC television revenue distribution really works and
where they see college sports going over the next five
ten years.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Whether that's a split between the.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
Power two and everybody else, the Power four and everybody else,
or perhaps a split of some schools that are in
the cool kids club.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
And some schools that are not. I think this is
These are things that.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
We haven't really had hard and fast data about before,
and now we do can find it at Extra Points
mb dot com.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I wish that I could be like the cool kids.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Right, let's talk about Hinkley Upati here for a minute.
Foral Reyu running back. There seems to be a surge
of lawsuits being heaped on the doorstep of the NC
double A requesting eligibility immediately be given to these former
junior college football players. I believe there's upwards a thirty
(03:17):
plus lawsuits right now. Hinkley, I don't know if he
submitted a lawsuit. He just submitted a waiver. But one
of the chances of Henkley ra Pati getting a year
of eligibility back do you think right now? Learning a
little bit about him, he played juco ball, obviously played
in the Corona virus season. I guess should get that
(03:39):
year back medical redshirt type of deal as well, he.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Said some season ending injuries.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Give us a breakdown on what's happening with this Diego
Pavian exemption and what your projection is of Heinkley Rapati.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
Yeah, I think it's been quite confusing about what sort
of legal precedent was actually established with the Diego lawsuit
and NCLE policy. The best of our understandings, as I've
talked to a couple of law professors and tried to
follow this issue here, is that the precedent set by
Diego is not that JUCO years don't count towards eligibility,
(04:14):
but only athletes that have an exact same situation as
Diego are given this kind of automatic waiver, which is
you played in JUCO, but you never took a red
year red shirt year, so you're still on the same
five year clock, and that's not the case.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
For most JUCO athletes.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
The NCAA is pushing back really hard in court against
the idea of some sort of you know, universal five
year eligibility or that JUCO years don't count. And part
of what's been complicated to follow along here is that
different judges, even sometimes in the same circuits, have reached
different conclusions about whether one NC DOUBLEA eligibility rules are
(04:54):
subject to antitrust inspection at all. You know, prior to
all in courts have given the NC double A a
lot of leeway and enforcing eligibility rules. After Alsten that
that's changed, but there are still some judges that say, like,
this particular thing is not an anti trust issue. There's
also the legal question about whether the JUCO college sports
(05:16):
and the NC DOUBLEA system are in competition with one
another or a part of the unified system, which is
different than the legal argument about whether D two or
D three years should should count, and then whether athletes
are economically damaged enough for this to have standing.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
And you've had some judges that have said yes, and
others that have said no.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
I think it is difficult if you don't follow the
exact same criteria as Diego to really feel confident about
having immediate eligibility. This season, many of the individuals I
think had stronger economic cases lost and decided either not
to appeal or.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
That an appeal was too expensive.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
And even if you win the first time around, the
NC DOUBLEA is appealing all of these This is not
nearly as open and shut of a legal case here
as I think nil regulation enforcement generally. So if somebody
hasn't spent the twenty to twenty five thousand dollars to
file the lawsuit and try to file it in as
friendly a court as possible, I would not anticipate them
(06:18):
being eligible week one.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Man, Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
We've had this discussion and I've made certain statements about this.
It's like, if you only submit a waiver request on
your university letterhead, like you're probably gonna get denied. Yet
if you submit that waiver request with a law firms
letterhead with threats of litigation, you may get it push through.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
What's going on in that regard? Why use that?
Speaker 6 (06:51):
Well?
Speaker 5 (06:52):
I mean, I think that's true with a lot of things.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I mean, even in my business.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
The response that I get if I write a nice
letter to you university versus I write a nice letter
to university on a law firm's letter ahead that that's
threatening litigation.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Often the response is different, you know that. What was
the al Capone saying, like, you get.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
More in this world with kind a kind word and
a gun than you do with just a kind word.
Like in this world the law firm is the gun,
right everyone, Everyone wants to avoid that kind of litigation.
That being said, this is not as scary for schools
as suing over and you know, infractions over an io
(07:33):
policy because the NCAA is winning a decent number of
these cases.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Eventually, there's good maybe whether it goes to.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
The Supreme Court or or somewhere else, to get some
some more clarity about.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Resolving some of these circus splits.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
You know, about what eligibility rules are subject to antitrust
law and what exactly is the case the tests that
should be established.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
That might take another two or three years. This process
just takes a really long time.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
The frustrating thing is that for athletes there's not a
really strong uniform rule right now if you played Juco
Baal and you also took a red shirt, So then
it becomes strictly a business question. Can you fortifile a
lawsuit and to file a law acredibly like not threatened,
but like actually credibly file one.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
We're looking at a five figure down payment twenty thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Do you have the money to spend twenty thousand dollars
on a case that maybe you only have a twenty
percent chance of winning?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Or is this the time for you to go be
a family man and go get a real job.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I think that that depends on what kind of nil
deal you're looking at and what your risk appetite is.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
And for a lot of athletes, the answer is going
to be it's not worth the risk. Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
No?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
But welcome to America.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Welcome to America, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Ben Byu fans were hoping, praying that that he included
pot he would receive a waivers looking too good?
Speaker 5 (09:01):
Though?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Is it like the hope? I?
Speaker 6 (09:04):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
I don't want to speak to authoritatively about any one
specific case because I don't know what judgement goes in
front of I don't know what kind of extenuating circumstances
or what kind of bag he's willing to sort of
testifying court that that he that would be on the
table by him playing or not. But we are now,
you know, into fall camp. We are we are weeks
(09:28):
away from from from the open, from from opening day,
and the legal process takes a while. So I think
for anybody who's not coming with big guns here or
has a really compelling case is not likely to get
immediate relief in time to play and shoot. Like, even
if you got relief in ten days, are you practicing?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Like?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Are you are you?
Speaker 6 (09:49):
Are you?
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Are you fully prepared after missing a big chunk of
fall camp waiting for this to happen?
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Like, the timing's very difficult.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It is difficult, no doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
What else is as as I've been keeping you busy
over an extra point recently, Matt, what have you been
focusing on?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
What can you tease us with?
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah, I've been working on a bunch of things.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
One thing that might be interesting here for this audience
is that if you are a numbers dork like me,
there's a couple of resources out there where you can
compare budgets for public pro public schools via the night
new House database or USA Today or are our own
extra Points library, so you can go see you know who,
you know how much revenue schools are reporting, what their
(10:29):
expenses are. What we haven't had is a way to
easily compare that information across individual sports. And that has
been what I have been working on and my colleagues
and Extra Points have been working on for months.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
We just debuted it on Friday.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
So now if you, if you, if you pay for
our service, and I've written a couple of stories about this,
you can say, all right, show me which volleyball teams
across the country sold the most tickets, what baseball budget
in the country is the largest, Sort them on through
one hundred and seventy six, you know, tell me who's
spent what does the median spend on coaching salary throughout
(11:06):
the Big twelve and we can pull all that information.
Uh what, I think that this has been particularly illuminating
and interesting for me as we move away from things
like football and basketball and and and try to get
better information about not just how much money is spent
on women's volleyball or gymnastics, but where that money is
coming from and how big the gap is between the
(11:27):
biggest and the smallest schools, because if you're you know,
kind of the bet that UVU is making here in
this market is that we can never match BUYU dollar
for dollars and spending in men's basketball.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Especial, especially not now.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
But the difference between a big spending and a medium
spending school and men's soccer is only about three hundred
thousand dollars. And if you make a concentrated effort there,
you can be in the top twenty. And that's you know,
that's what Marshall did, and they want a dang national title.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
So that's the kind of data work that we're doing now.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
I should have a story out this week about what
women's volleyball budgets look like, and I have already coming
out this week that we did some reporting on about
what lear Field is doing to try and help programs
earn more money above the salary cap so they can
continue to pay athletes across multiple sports and be competitive
beyond just the twenty point five million that they're already sharing.
Speaker 7 (12:18):
I don't want to project or predict or have you
maybe project too much, Matt, because I know you know
what projections get into. But what it sounds like with
the way budgets are working and how budgets are kind
of shifting in this post house settlement era, which by
the way, is still being in challenging core, Like we
(12:39):
probably need to admit to that up front, right, that
the house settlement is not the end of litigation in
NCAA athletics. But it sounds like a lot of the
data that you're shaving seeing, the budgets that you're seeing
might potentially allude to a future where schools start and
I'm trying to choose my words really carefully, but in
(13:01):
sports talk radio. So what's the point of that, right,
But maybe schools start kind of specializing a little bit
in especially in Olympic sports, where they go, hey, you know,
we're we're gonna try to compete in football and men's basketball,
because those are the two belcow sports everywhere. But maybe
there are Olympic sports that we start prioritizing more, whether
it's you know, you touch on men's soccer with Marshall
(13:23):
winning the national title a couple of years ago, or
some some schools may start to kind of throw a
little bit extra into women's soccer or volleyball or wrestling, lacrosse,
maybe some of those Northeast schools, could we see a
little bit of a kind of a sports specialty by
school in this new post house settlement era.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
I mean, that's that's exactly what's happening. And maybe two
years ago schools wouldn't like to use this.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Language in public or on the record.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
But but what you're describing as a conversation called tiering,
and that's been done informally across the country, and it's
not becoming much more explicit, both internally and externally, because
you're right both with your twenty point five million that
you're sharing directly with athletes and with what you're spending
across the university.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
As a whole.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Even if you're Alabama, Ohio State, or Texas, you can't
afford to spend the top amount of money on everything.
And the Title nine and conference bylaws still require you
to sponsor a minimum number of sports, and so you
have to have some difficult conversations like I know, as
an example, at my alma mater, Ohio State sponsors more
sports than almost anybody else in the country.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
It's like thirty six schools.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
And then they had some conversations with some of those
coaches and said, we're not going to drop this sport
because we don't want to get sued for title nine reasons,
but we're going to cut scholarships for a lot of these,
and we're going to cut operational spending for a lot
of these. And we'll still have a rifle team or
a men's volleyball team or some of these other things,
but we are not going to spend like Ohio State
and gun for a championship.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
I think another good example is men's hockey.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
One of the teams that I know that is spending
the most across the country in men's hockey this year
from house settlement money is UMass and I think that
that's pretty reasonable because they're recognizing that the Ohio State's
not going to spend the dime on on their house
money for men's hockey because nobody in Columbus cares, but
Massachusetts cares.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
So if I was in.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
This market and I was at BYU or Utah, as
an example here, just kind of speaking off the cuff,
I would probably want to divert some resources away from
baseball and put them into whether that's whether that's gymnastics,
whether that is track and field or cross country or
or or or potentially men's and women's basketball, because the
(15:44):
ability for BYU or Utah to compete at the national
stage in those in those other sports is they're they're
closer to that level than they are for baseball, where
they have some geographic and historical and other challenges. You're
not going to be able to reach financial parity with
Arizona and Arizona State or even potentially West Virginia right
now in that sport.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
That's happening everywhere, and sometimes.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
That can be really that can be really difficult conversation
because nobody wants to be a college coach and here
because you're super competitive, your sport is not a priority
like get ready to learn how to have bike sales.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
But that that's that is exactly where we're going.
Speaker 7 (16:23):
And I think the flip side of that, and nobody
wants to talk about cutting sports or eliminating programs, but
the reality is they are happening. And I know there
are still NCAA regulations for how many sports you have
to sponsor and that kind of thing, but could outside
organizations maybe come in and sort of help boost some
of those standings where you know, say USA Lacrosse, see
(16:45):
schools that are focusing on lacrosse, maybe they come in
and they partner with with certain schools for their programs.
Or USA Swimming, USA Gymnastics, you know most of like
you know, ninety percent of the US Olympic Committee. It
seems like, could you also see maybe some working with
some national organizations in terms of helping some of these
sports at the college level. Or is that a conversation
(17:08):
that I'm projecting way too much.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
You're you're certainly not projecting like that.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
The NYT Commission had a presentation and a national poll
about this a couple of days ago, and this, I think,
in a roundabout way speaks to what the President was
talking about with his executive order, you know, trying which
the text of that is saying that the administration doesn't
want schools to cut sports and wants to provide financial incentives,
(17:33):
carrots and sticks for schools to.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Maintain a minimum amount.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
What you're describing on some level does already happen. How
much it happens depends on the resources for.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
That national organization.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
You know, one of the one of the college sports,
for example, that's facing the biggest challenges right now is
college tennis, and the governing body here for for for
American Tennis will give your college a grant to help
pay for facility repairs or or or infrastructure to keep
your program. If you are interested in restarting college wrestling
(18:05):
or starting college wrestling, I know this for a fact.
USA Wrestling will help you hire a coach, and they'll
give you mats, they'll give you some of the infrastructure
that you get started. The problem is that in this country,
unlike almost every other major industrialized country, those national organizations
don't get direct federal funding, and so they're getting money
(18:27):
from coaches, from local membership, from corporate partners, but most
of them don't.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Have anywhere near enough money to offset costs at the
college level.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
They might have some money for professional development, but they're
not going to replace the hole in the budget from
money going going being redirected to football.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
So I think there's an important.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
National conversation to be had about how we want to
fund Olympic sport development in this country.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
The way that we have decided to do it for
the last seventy years, which is different from anybody else
in the world world, is that we've chosen to fund
an elite Olympics sport athlete development through higher education by
subsidizing with football and men's basketball money.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
And that world is changing as more of that money
is being redirected directly into the pockets of the athletes.
I actually, I mean, I think that's a good thing,
but that means that that money has to come from somewhere.
What most of the world does is that the government
pays for it, either through the military, through direct national appropriations,
through the a federal Ministry of Sport, and a couple
(19:34):
of places. The private sector in the corporate world plays
a more outsized role. We just have to decide because
we might and maybe America decides winning the Olympics or
having lots of really great track athletes or these opportunities
is not important to us for us to spend you know,
federal gambling tax.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Money on it, or federal appropriation or anything else.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
I think that can be defensible, But then you are
not going to have the same Olympic performance that you've
had the last thirty forty years.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I think that's just the reality.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
If Matt Brown remind all of our listeners where they
can find you, where they can read you where they
can support you. Nobody does it better than my guy,
Matt Brown.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
You can find me on Twitter at Matt Brown EP
and Matt Brown also on the Blue Skies and.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
The website is extra Points mb dot com.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
These are newsletters that are read by industry professionals all
over this state, all over this market, all over the country,
as well as tens of thousands.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
Of regular fans.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
So if by listening to this you weren't bored to tears,
good news. There's a whole bunch of newsletters you can
read with this exact kind of coverage. And if it
did bore you, that's okay, I'll be mad. There'll be
another guest on here in a couple of minutes.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
You can go listen to him. But either way, I
appreciate you guys booking me again.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Love having you on our show.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Matt.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
We appreciate you. We sholute you man.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
Thanks for hopping on today, of course, fellas if you will,
thanks Matt.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
He didn't give me optims is about heklupati. He didn't
give me the tingles and jingles, the positive feels, the vibes.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I think that.
Speaker 7 (21:08):
I think that's a really good point, though, what Matt
was saying, because I think there are a lot of
college football fans in particular, when they saw the injunction
by federal judge in Tennessee, UH that was put in
for Diego Pavia, essentially granting him a stay for an
extra year of eligibility because of his his JUC eligibility
(21:30):
that a quote unquote doesn't count against nca and whatnot.
I think there was a lot of like automatic jumps
to conclusions of like, oh, this is the beginning of
a fifth year, or this is the beginning of you know,
the NJCAA system doesn't count towards the nc double A,
or like that's going to be a future.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Thing if file a lawsuit, yeah, and like only if.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
You have a a law firm that's willing to represent
you and file it.
Speaker 7 (21:58):
Even then, I don't think it's a total guarantee or
a total slam dunk, because like, eventually these lawsuits are
going to wind up getting settled or approved or denied
or whatever. And this just doesn't feel like a very
sustainable model for college sports going forward.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And maybe it's your personal opinion.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Should the years of junior college football count against your
eligibility as a college football player.
Speaker 7 (22:31):
I mean, it's tough because they always have, right, But
there are a lot of things that we've always done
in college football that are changing nowadays.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
And the reason why I bring it up is because
not all junior colleges get scholarships. They don't, that's true.
Many of them do not, that's true. So you're just
playing to get to that next level. You're not getting scholarship,
you're not getting food. You're lucky if you get books,
that's true. Sometimes they'll put you up and your you're living.
Speaker 7 (22:59):
All of them are required to because you have said
you have different organizations that run junior college sports, like
California has literally its own organization in the Triple CAA
that's outside of the n j c a A, which
has three different divisions. And then there's another JE code
organization that's back East. Like it's it's such a mess
that you can't really standardize.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And now the counter is, well, you're still you can
still work towards a degree, right, you can still work
towards so your clock is ticking. And I view it
almost like a prep school, and it should be somewhat
viewed as a prep school. In my opinion. It's not
(23:43):
FBS football, it's not the same league, not even FCS football,
it's not even FCS football Division two, it's not an
NCAA sanction football program. So if by the law, the
letter of law, they're not college football layers, not FBS
football players, na A.
Speaker 7 (24:04):
Football players, And then then the hard part also becomes
if you extend that blanket towards every level, Like, should
Division two eligibility count against Division one eligibility? Because we're
seeing some of those transfer ups every year, you see
bounce backs, We're seeing Division ones transferred to Division twos
(24:24):
every year. What about when you go over to nai
A football, Should those years of eligibility also not count there?
Or do you just I mean, here's here's one that's
been kicked around for a while then and it's been
sort of buried a little bit under the radar with
injunctions and lawsuits and everything else. Is it time to
just strip the red shirt from college athletics eligibility and
(24:47):
just give everybody five years injuries development red shirts?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Look, I'm all for I'm all for given those years
of eligibility back Ben Kritle would have been a four
y your player at b YU, five year player at
b YU. Baby, Oh man, I would have been a
part of the great look. I would have been there
five six o seven. Oh wait, I would have four
years of glory and victory, the greatest, greatest shirts.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Oh, that would have been glorious.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Oh man, you could have Yeah, give me those NC
junior college years back.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
College football players right now essentially get five years because
of the four game red shirt rule.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
The other sports don't have that. I could have red
shirted and No.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Five played it in the Notre Dame game, played in
the Cow game, played in some of those big time games,
and then you know, finished off the career in the
one of the greatest, second best era in BYU football history.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Other sports don't have that.
Speaker 7 (25:48):
By the way, the second you step on the court
in an NCAA game and men's basketball.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Your clock started, no doubt about it.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
Soccer, baseball, men's hockey, wrestling, same thing.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
As soon as you as soon.
Speaker 7 (26:01):
As you begin your eligibility, whether you play ten seconds
or ten games, you've used that year. And that feels
like something that maybe needs to be standardized at the
very least towards more of a football model, or again,
we just go all the way and say here's your
five years of eligibility and that's it.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Phinkleer Patti may not get his waiver, ladies and gentlemen.
But that that being said, I don't know if Matt
is the most positive, optimistic person as it relates to
these these matters. So I'm gonna take it with a
grain of salt. I'm gonna have hopet Brown's a little
(26:39):
bit too much of a realist to be an optimist exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Matt Brown, how dare you? Matt Brown?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
That segment was brought to by Orthopros of Utah arthroprosyviewta
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Speaker 2 (27:09):
We'll take a brief time out. We'll be back, though.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Don't go anywhere this is Cougar Sports one A three
nine ninety eight point three
It's time to celebrate the previous team sport known to man,
where modern day gladiators collide for all the glory on
the Gridie, Let's talk some college football on Cougar Sports
with Ben Crittle.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Welcome back Cougar Sports. One of three, nine ninety eight
point three ESPN the Fan.
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for our money. Hit us up today at Batterwealth Batterwell
dot Comedy. It's time for a little college football segment.
I want to discuss inclurapati. I want to discuss this
(00:35):
Diego PAVIA exemption. Where does Hinkley standard on this? How
many lawsuits have been filed claiming that, uh, this is
an antitrust issue. They're losing out on money, an opportunity
to make money, and should be deemed eligible because they
played junior college football two, three, four, five years ago.
(00:58):
We're going to discuss them with a college football insider
representing extra Points here momentarily going to be brought to
you by Orthorprosoutah orthroprosoutah dot com. If you're an offensive
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Speaker 2 (01:35):
Let's get out to the hotline.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Welcome in one of my favorite guests representing extra Points
extra Points MB dot com College Football Inside.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
We got Matt Brown on the line. Matt, how you living?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Hey, I'm doing great. It's excited here to spend some
more time with you guys.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
First and foremost, what have you written about at extra Points?
What can we peruse right now? And how do we
subscribe to the newsletter to get all your contents.
Speaker 5 (01:59):
You want to read about a reporting and unique analysis
about off the field stuff that shapes this industry, You're
going to want to check out Extra Points at extra
Points mb dot com. Two of those newsletters are completely
free every week. Two of them are premium. Earlier today,
we published a bunch of slides from a presentation from
(02:20):
Virginia's Virginia techs Athletic Director to their board of visitors
about how the ACC television revenue distribution really works and
where they see college sports going over the next five
ten years.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
Whether that's a split between the.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
Power two and everybody else, the Power four and everybody else,
or perhaps a split of some schools that are in
the cool kids club.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
And some schools that are not. I think this is
These are things that.
Speaker 5 (02:46):
We haven't really had hard and fast data about before,
and now we do can find it at Extra Points
mb dot com.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
I wish that I could be like the cool kids.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Right, let's talk about Hinkley Upati here for a minute.
Foral Reyu running back. There seems to be a surge
of lawsuits being heaped on the doorstep of the NC
double A requesting eligibility immediately be given to these former
junior college football players. I believe there's upwards a thirty
(03:17):
plus lawsuits right now. Hinkley, I don't know if he
submitted a lawsuit. He just submitted a waiver. But one
of the chances of Henkley ra Pati getting a year
of eligibility back do you think right now? Learning a
little bit about him, he played juco ball, obviously played
in the Corona virus season. I guess should get that
(03:39):
year back medical redshirt type of deal as well, he.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Said some season ending injuries.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Give us a breakdown on what's happening with this Diego
Pavian exemption and what your projection is of Heinkley Rapati.
Speaker 5 (03:50):
Yeah, I think it's been quite confusing about what sort
of legal precedent was actually established with the Diego lawsuit
and NCLE policy. The best of our understandings, as I've
talked to a couple of law professors and tried to
follow this issue here, is that the precedent set by
Diego is not that JUCO years don't count towards eligibility,
(04:14):
but only athletes that have an exact same situation as
Diego are given this kind of automatic waiver, which is
you played in JUCO, but you never took a red
year red shirt year, so you're still on the same
five year clock, and that's not the case.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
For most JUCO athletes.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
The NCAA is pushing back really hard in court against
the idea of some sort of you know, universal five
year eligibility or that JUCO years don't count. And part
of what's been complicated to follow along here is that
different judges, even sometimes in the same circuits, have reached
different conclusions about whether one NC DOUBLEA eligibility rules are
(04:54):
subject to antitrust inspection at all. You know, prior to
all in courts have given the NC double A a
lot of leeway and enforcing eligibility rules. After Alsten that
that's changed, but there are still some judges that say, like,
this particular thing is not an anti trust issue. There's
also the legal question about whether the JUCO college sports
(05:16):
and the NC DOUBLEA system are in competition with one
another or a part of the unified system, which is
different than the legal argument about whether D two or
D three years should should count, and then whether athletes
are economically damaged enough for this to have standing.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
And you've had some judges that have said yes, and
others that have said no.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
I think it is difficult if you don't follow the
exact same criteria as Diego to really feel confident about
having immediate eligibility. This season, many of the individuals I
think had stronger economic cases lost and decided either not
to appeal or.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
That an appeal was too expensive.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
And even if you win the first time around, the
NC DOUBLEA is appealing all of these This is not
nearly as open and shut of a legal case here
as I think nil regulation enforcement generally. So if somebody
hasn't spent the twenty to twenty five thousand dollars to
file the lawsuit and try to file it in as
friendly a court as possible, I would not anticipate them
(06:18):
being eligible week one.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Man, Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
We've had this discussion and I've made certain statements about this.
It's like, if you only submit a waiver request on
your university letterhead, like you're probably gonna get denied. Yet
if you submit that waiver request with a law firms
letterhead with threats of litigation, you may get it push through.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
What's going on in that regard? Why use that?
Speaker 6 (06:51):
Well?
Speaker 5 (06:52):
I mean, I think that's true with a lot of things.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I mean, even in my business.
Speaker 5 (06:56):
The response that I get if I write a nice
letter to you university versus I write a nice letter
to university on a law firm's letter ahead that that's
threatening litigation.
Speaker 4 (07:07):
Often the response is different, you know that. What was
the al Capone saying, like, you get.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
More in this world with kind a kind word and
a gun than you do with just a kind word.
Like in this world the law firm is the gun,
right everyone, Everyone wants to avoid that kind of litigation.
That being said, this is not as scary for schools
as suing over and you know, infractions over an io
(07:33):
policy because the NCAA is winning a decent number of
these cases.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
Eventually, there's good maybe whether it goes to.
Speaker 5 (07:40):
The Supreme Court or or somewhere else, to get some
some more clarity about.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
Resolving some of these circus splits.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
You know, about what eligibility rules are subject to antitrust
law and what exactly is the case the tests that
should be established.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
That might take another two or three years. This process
just takes a really long time.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
The frustrating thing is that for athletes there's not a
really strong uniform rule right now if you played Juco
Baal and you also took a red shirt, So then
it becomes strictly a business question. Can you fortifile a
lawsuit and to file a law acredibly like not threatened,
but like actually credibly file one.
Speaker 4 (08:22):
We're looking at a five figure down payment twenty thousand dollars.
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Do you have the money to spend twenty thousand dollars
on a case that maybe you only have a twenty
percent chance of winning?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
Or is this the time for you to go be
a family man and go get a real job.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
I think that that depends on what kind of nil
deal you're looking at and what your risk appetite is.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
And for a lot of athletes, the answer is going
to be it's not worth the risk. Is that fair?
Speaker 2 (08:47):
No?
Speaker 4 (08:47):
But welcome to America.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Welcome to America, ladies and gentlemen.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Ben Byu fans were hoping, praying that that he included
pot he would receive a waivers looking too good?
Speaker 5 (09:01):
Though?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Is it like the hope? I?
Speaker 6 (09:04):
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
I don't want to speak to authoritatively about any one
specific case because I don't know what judgement goes in
front of I don't know what kind of extenuating circumstances
or what kind of bag he's willing to sort of
testifying court that that he that would be on the
table by him playing or not. But we are now,
you know, into fall camp. We are we are weeks
(09:28):
away from from from the open, from from opening day,
and the legal process takes a while. So I think
for anybody who's not coming with big guns here or
has a really compelling case is not likely to get
immediate relief in time to play and shoot. Like, even
if you got relief in ten days, are you practicing?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Like?
Speaker 4 (09:49):
Are you are you?
Speaker 6 (09:49):
Are you?
Speaker 5 (09:50):
Are you fully prepared after missing a big chunk of
fall camp waiting for this to happen?
Speaker 4 (09:53):
Like, the timing's very difficult.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It is difficult, no doubt about it.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
What else is as as I've been keeping you busy
over an extra point recently, Matt, what have you been
focusing on?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
What can you tease us with?
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah, I've been working on a bunch of things.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
One thing that might be interesting here for this audience
is that if you are a numbers dork like me,
there's a couple of resources out there where you can
compare budgets for public pro public schools via the night
new House database or USA Today or are our own
extra Points library, so you can go see you know who,
you know how much revenue schools are reporting, what their
(10:29):
expenses are. What we haven't had is a way to
easily compare that information across individual sports. And that has
been what I have been working on and my colleagues
and Extra Points have been working on for months.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
We just debuted it on Friday.
Speaker 5 (10:45):
So now if you, if you, if you pay for
our service, and I've written a couple of stories about this,
you can say, all right, show me which volleyball teams
across the country sold the most tickets, what baseball budget
in the country is the largest, Sort them on through
one hundred and seventy six, you know, tell me who's
spent what does the median spend on coaching salary throughout
(11:06):
the Big twelve and we can pull all that information.
Uh what, I think that this has been particularly illuminating
and interesting for me as we move away from things
like football and basketball and and and try to get
better information about not just how much money is spent
on women's volleyball or gymnastics, but where that money is
coming from and how big the gap is between the
(11:27):
biggest and the smallest schools, because if you're you know,
kind of the bet that UVU is making here in
this market is that we can never match BUYU dollar
for dollars and spending in men's basketball.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Especial, especially not now.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
But the difference between a big spending and a medium
spending school and men's soccer is only about three hundred
thousand dollars. And if you make a concentrated effort there,
you can be in the top twenty. And that's you know,
that's what Marshall did, and they want a dang national title.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
So that's the kind of data work that we're doing now.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
I should have a story out this week about what
women's volleyball budgets look like, and I have already coming
out this week that we did some reporting on about
what lear Field is doing to try and help programs
earn more money above the salary cap so they can
continue to pay athletes across multiple sports and be competitive
beyond just the twenty point five million that they're already sharing.
Speaker 7 (12:18):
I don't want to project or predict or have you
maybe project too much, Matt, because I know you know
what projections get into. But what it sounds like with
the way budgets are working and how budgets are kind
of shifting in this post house settlement era, which by
the way, is still being in challenging core, Like we
(12:39):
probably need to admit to that up front, right, that
the house settlement is not the end of litigation in
NCAA athletics. But it sounds like a lot of the
data that you're shaving seeing, the budgets that you're seeing
might potentially allude to a future where schools start and
I'm trying to choose my words really carefully, but in
(13:01):
sports talk radio. So what's the point of that, right,
But maybe schools start kind of specializing a little bit
in especially in Olympic sports, where they go, hey, you know,
we're we're gonna try to compete in football and men's basketball,
because those are the two belcow sports everywhere. But maybe
there are Olympic sports that we start prioritizing more, whether
it's you know, you touch on men's soccer with Marshall
(13:23):
winning the national title a couple of years ago, or
some some schools may start to kind of throw a
little bit extra into women's soccer or volleyball or wrestling, lacrosse,
maybe some of those Northeast schools, could we see a
little bit of a kind of a sports specialty by
school in this new post house settlement era.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
I mean, that's that's exactly what's happening. And maybe two
years ago schools wouldn't like to use this.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
Language in public or on the record.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
But but what you're describing as a conversation called tiering,
and that's been done informally across the country, and it's
not becoming much more explicit, both internally and externally, because
you're right both with your twenty point five million that
you're sharing directly with athletes and with what you're spending
across the university.
Speaker 4 (14:12):
As a whole.
Speaker 5 (14:13):
Even if you're Alabama, Ohio State, or Texas, you can't
afford to spend the top amount of money on everything.
And the Title nine and conference bylaws still require you
to sponsor a minimum number of sports, and so you
have to have some difficult conversations like I know, as
an example, at my alma mater, Ohio State sponsors more
sports than almost anybody else in the country.
Speaker 4 (14:34):
It's like thirty six schools.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
And then they had some conversations with some of those
coaches and said, we're not going to drop this sport
because we don't want to get sued for title nine reasons,
but we're going to cut scholarships for a lot of these,
and we're going to cut operational spending for a lot
of these. And we'll still have a rifle team or
a men's volleyball team or some of these other things,
but we are not going to spend like Ohio State
and gun for a championship.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
I think another good example is men's hockey.
Speaker 5 (15:00):
One of the teams that I know that is spending
the most across the country in men's hockey this year
from house settlement money is UMass and I think that
that's pretty reasonable because they're recognizing that the Ohio State's
not going to spend the dime on on their house
money for men's hockey because nobody in Columbus cares, but
Massachusetts cares.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
So if I was in.
Speaker 5 (15:20):
This market and I was at BYU or Utah, as
an example here, just kind of speaking off the cuff,
I would probably want to divert some resources away from
baseball and put them into whether that's whether that's gymnastics,
whether that is track and field or cross country or
or or or potentially men's and women's basketball, because the
(15:44):
ability for BYU or Utah to compete at the national
stage in those in those other sports is they're they're
closer to that level than they are for baseball, where
they have some geographic and historical and other challenges. You're
not going to be able to reach financial parity with
Arizona and Arizona State or even potentially West Virginia right
now in that sport.
Speaker 4 (16:05):
That's happening everywhere, and sometimes.
Speaker 5 (16:08):
That can be really that can be really difficult conversation
because nobody wants to be a college coach and here
because you're super competitive, your sport is not a priority
like get ready to learn how to have bike sales.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
But that that's that is exactly where we're going.
Speaker 7 (16:23):
And I think the flip side of that, and nobody
wants to talk about cutting sports or eliminating programs, but
the reality is they are happening. And I know there
are still NCAA regulations for how many sports you have
to sponsor and that kind of thing, but could outside
organizations maybe come in and sort of help boost some
of those standings where you know, say USA Lacrosse, see
(16:45):
schools that are focusing on lacrosse, maybe they come in
and they partner with with certain schools for their programs.
Or USA Swimming, USA Gymnastics, you know most of like
you know, ninety percent of the US Olympic Committee. It
seems like, could you also see maybe some working with
some national organizations in terms of helping some of these
sports at the college level. Or is that a conversation
(17:08):
that I'm projecting way too much.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
You're you're certainly not projecting like that.
Speaker 5 (17:11):
The NYT Commission had a presentation and a national poll
about this a couple of days ago, and this, I think,
in a roundabout way speaks to what the President was
talking about with his executive order, you know, trying which
the text of that is saying that the administration doesn't
want schools to cut sports and wants to provide financial incentives,
(17:33):
carrots and sticks for schools to.
Speaker 4 (17:34):
Maintain a minimum amount.
Speaker 5 (17:37):
What you're describing on some level does already happen. How
much it happens depends on the resources for.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
That national organization.
Speaker 5 (17:45):
You know, one of the one of the college sports,
for example, that's facing the biggest challenges right now is
college tennis, and the governing body here for for for
American Tennis will give your college a grant to help
pay for facility repairs or or or infrastructure to keep
your program. If you are interested in restarting college wrestling
(18:05):
or starting college wrestling, I know this for a fact.
USA Wrestling will help you hire a coach, and they'll
give you mats, they'll give you some of the infrastructure
that you get started. The problem is that in this country,
unlike almost every other major industrialized country, those national organizations
don't get direct federal funding, and so they're getting money
(18:27):
from coaches, from local membership, from corporate partners, but most
of them don't.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Have anywhere near enough money to offset costs at the
college level.
Speaker 5 (18:38):
They might have some money for professional development, but they're
not going to replace the hole in the budget from
money going going being redirected to football.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
So I think there's an important.
Speaker 5 (18:47):
National conversation to be had about how we want to
fund Olympic sport development in this country.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
The way that we have decided to do it for
the last seventy years, which is different from anybody else
in the world world, is that we've chosen to fund
an elite Olympics sport athlete development through higher education by
subsidizing with football and men's basketball money.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
And that world is changing as more of that money
is being redirected directly into the pockets of the athletes.
I actually, I mean, I think that's a good thing,
but that means that that money has to come from somewhere.
What most of the world does is that the government
pays for it, either through the military, through direct national appropriations,
through the a federal Ministry of Sport, and a couple
(19:34):
of places. The private sector in the corporate world plays
a more outsized role. We just have to decide because
we might and maybe America decides winning the Olympics or
having lots of really great track athletes or these opportunities
is not important to us for us to spend you know,
federal gambling tax.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Money on it, or federal appropriation or anything else.
Speaker 5 (19:55):
I think that can be defensible, But then you are
not going to have the same Olympic performance that you've
had the last thirty forty years.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
I think that's just the reality.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
If Matt Brown remind all of our listeners where they
can find you, where they can read you where they
can support you. Nobody does it better than my guy,
Matt Brown.
Speaker 5 (20:12):
You can find me on Twitter at Matt Brown EP
and Matt Brown also on the Blue Skies and.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
The website is extra Points mb dot com.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
These are newsletters that are read by industry professionals all
over this state, all over this market, all over the country,
as well as tens of thousands.
Speaker 4 (20:32):
Of regular fans.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
So if by listening to this you weren't bored to tears,
good news. There's a whole bunch of newsletters you can
read with this exact kind of coverage. And if it
did bore you, that's okay, I'll be mad. There'll be
another guest on here in a couple of minutes.
Speaker 4 (20:47):
You can go listen to him. But either way, I
appreciate you guys booking me again.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Love having you on our show.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Matt.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
We appreciate you. We sholute you man.
Speaker 5 (20:53):
Thanks for hopping on today, of course, fellas if you will,
thanks Matt.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
He didn't give me optims is about heklupati. He didn't
give me the tingles and jingles, the positive feels, the vibes.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
I think that.
Speaker 7 (21:08):
I think that's a really good point, though, what Matt
was saying, because I think there are a lot of
college football fans in particular, when they saw the injunction
by federal judge in Tennessee, UH that was put in
for Diego Pavia, essentially granting him a stay for an
extra year of eligibility because of his his JUC eligibility
(21:30):
that a quote unquote doesn't count against nca and whatnot.
I think there was a lot of like automatic jumps
to conclusions of like, oh, this is the beginning of
a fifth year, or this is the beginning of you know,
the NJCAA system doesn't count towards the nc double A,
or like that's going to be a future.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Thing if file a lawsuit, yeah, and like only if.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
You have a a law firm that's willing to represent
you and file it.
Speaker 7 (21:58):
Even then, I don't think it's a total guarantee or
a total slam dunk, because like, eventually these lawsuits are
going to wind up getting settled or approved or denied
or whatever. And this just doesn't feel like a very
sustainable model for college sports going forward.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And maybe it's your personal opinion.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Should the years of junior college football count against your
eligibility as a college football player.
Speaker 7 (22:31):
I mean, it's tough because they always have, right, But
there are a lot of things that we've always done
in college football that are changing nowadays.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
And the reason why I bring it up is because
not all junior colleges get scholarships. They don't, that's true.
Many of them do not, that's true. So you're just
playing to get to that next level. You're not getting scholarship,
you're not getting food. You're lucky if you get books,
that's true. Sometimes they'll put you up and your you're living.
Speaker 7 (22:59):
All of them are required to because you have said
you have different organizations that run junior college sports, like
California has literally its own organization in the Triple CAA
that's outside of the n j c a A, which
has three different divisions. And then there's another JE code
organization that's back East. Like it's it's such a mess
that you can't really standardize.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
And now the counter is, well, you're still you can
still work towards a degree, right, you can still work
towards so your clock is ticking. And I view it
almost like a prep school, and it should be somewhat
viewed as a prep school. In my opinion. It's not
(23:43):
FBS football, it's not the same league, not even FCS football,
it's not even FCS football Division two, it's not an
NCAA sanction football program. So if by the law, the
letter of law, they're not college football layers, not FBS
football players, na A.
Speaker 7 (24:04):
Football players, And then then the hard part also becomes
if you extend that blanket towards every level, Like, should
Division two eligibility count against Division one eligibility? Because we're
seeing some of those transfer ups every year, you see
bounce backs, We're seeing Division ones transferred to Division twos
(24:24):
every year. What about when you go over to nai
A football, Should those years of eligibility also not count there?
Or do you just I mean, here's here's one that's
been kicked around for a while then and it's been
sort of buried a little bit under the radar with
injunctions and lawsuits and everything else. Is it time to
just strip the red shirt from college athletics eligibility and
(24:47):
just give everybody five years injuries development red shirts?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Whatever it is.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Look, I'm all for I'm all for given those years
of eligibility back Ben Kritle would have been a four
y your player at b YU, five year player at
b YU. Baby, Oh man, I would have been a
part of the great look. I would have been there
five six o seven. Oh wait, I would have four
years of glory and victory, the greatest, greatest shirts.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
Oh, that would have been glorious.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Oh man, you could have Yeah, give me those NC
junior college years back.
Speaker 7 (25:26):
College football players right now essentially get five years because
of the four game red shirt rule.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
The other sports don't have that. I could have red
shirted and No.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Five played it in the Notre Dame game, played in
the Cow game, played in some of those big time games,
and then you know, finished off the career in the
one of the greatest, second best era in BYU football history.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Other sports don't have that.
Speaker 7 (25:48):
By the way, the second you step on the court
in an NCAA game and men's basketball.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Your clock started, no doubt about it.
Speaker 7 (25:55):
Soccer, baseball, men's hockey, wrestling, same thing.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
As soon as you as soon.
Speaker 7 (26:01):
As you begin your eligibility, whether you play ten seconds
or ten games, you've used that year. And that feels
like something that maybe needs to be standardized at the
very least towards more of a football model, or again,
we just go all the way and say here's your
five years of eligibility and that's it.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Phinkleer Patti may not get his waiver, ladies and gentlemen.
But that that being said, I don't know if Matt
is the most positive, optimistic person as it relates to
these these matters. So I'm gonna take it with a
grain of salt. I'm gonna have hopet Brown's a little
(26:39):
bit too much of a realist to be an optimist exactly.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Matt Brown, how dare you? Matt Brown?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
That segment was brought to by Orthopros of Utah arthroprosyviewta
dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
Break up those knees, those ankles, those risks, those elbows.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
Your best ability is your availability when you're getting involved
in the trench warfare game in this high school football season.
Make sure you're healthy throughout the long and argus with
high schoo football season in the trenches eight O one,
four hundred five through and eight. That's eight O one,
four hundred five through in eight orthorpros of Utah, Orthorprosifutah
dot com.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
We'll take a brief time out. We'll be back, though.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Don't go anywhere this is Cougar Sports one A three
nine ninety eight point three
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