Interview: Joe Evermore, father of Sam Adventure who climbed El Capitan at 8-years-old

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:17):
If you grew up in a time when parents allowed
you to spend time outdoors, get dirty, and climb trees,
then you will love our guest today. He is a
father who believes in more than letting his kids play outside.
His son set a world record in mountain climbing when
Sam Adventure and yes that is really his middle name, Evermore,
climbed El Capitan, the tallest sheer wall in North America

(00:39):
at only eight years old. Please give a warm and
brave counterculture Wise welcome to mister Joe Evermore.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hi, rack here, you bet.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
It's good to see you too, all in one piece
and everything. So we haven't fallen down in each year mountains.
That's good yet not yet? Okay, Well, Joe, I want
to give you a chance to start out and tell
everybody where they can find you and maybe even what
you're up to these days.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Yeah, if you want to find this, it's you got
to follow my son Sam. He's the one who's really
getting famous here quick and just look up Samuel Adventure
on Instagram or on Facebook.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Samuel it Adventure. Okay, and we of course will have
all of the links up on our website counterculturewise dot
com as well as both the audio and video version
of this interview. If you are watching this live, drop everything,
hit like, share, subscribe, share with everybody. Give us a
two hundred thousand star review. If you're not enjoying yourself,

(01:40):
just give us five stars. That's insulting enough. Five is good.
All right, Well, I want to start out, sam Adventure.
We got Joey Danger. I guess is the middle child
a third child's name Lars couch Potato?

Speaker 3 (01:54):
Maybe may see it's Samuel Adventure Sylvan light Year than
Joey Danger.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Sylvan light Year. Oh my goodness, you have so much
fun with your kids' names. I love it. No, okay,
so that's why you call them silly? Okay, I was
wondering why you were calling him. I'm like, is that
his middle name? Silly Sylvan light Year? Okay, so he
was named after an adventurer, a cartoon adventurer.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Uh No, Now, I think the Lord is just telling
us that he was going to be on a really
big scale.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
And a light year is six trillion miles.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
And so that's true.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
That is a big scale, not as big as measurement
as there is.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
So we that Well, let's let's just cruise right on
into this. Your your message basically is enough with the
bubble wrap already, you know, let's let's let kids be kids.
And then you just took it up to eleven to
a quantum.

Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yeah, that's amazing, that's true.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, So tell me a little bit about your your
parenting style and what got you guys into mountain climbing
with with with the little lands.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Yeah, so really we didn't figure it out at the beginning.
We were just climbers that began to have kids and
we didn't know what to do with them, and so
we began to put him in a backpack, you know,
the little carried carriers and take them up these mountains,
and you know, and we'd have them clipped in and
on a little ledge with a few little toys and

(03:13):
kind of worked their way up these mountains with us.
And pretty much before Sam could even walk, he was
already summity in mountains. And as soon as he could,
you know, start climbing, he was, you know, a champ.
And you know, we just kept bringing them with us.
We didn't know what else to do.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
And what we.

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Learned was is instead of climbing really be this singular sport,
it was really became a family sport for us, and
even today, you know, after we get off here, I'm
going climbing at the Garden of the Gods with the boys.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
So, oh wow, fantastic mom.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Climbs to Oh yeah, she's climbing. Yeah, very cool. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
All the videos just had her at the bottom and
I'm like, I could not be that mom watching my
baby climb up to the mountain. I don't know how
she does it. So she's a climber too.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
He has a support role in read everything we were doing.
So and one of the mountains we climbed this summer
called Pingora. We took our Joey Danger up and that
was his first big mountain at five, and Ann climbed
it with us, fully pregnant, and so.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
It was, oh yeah, he's got a fourth on the way.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah, we got up, and of course it's another boy.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Shoot the old boy juice there. Congratulations.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, get yourself a baseball.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Team, a reality show, a baseball that would be fun
to watch you guys, like toss baseballs while you're hanging
off a cliff or.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Possible. Yeah, we do things like that sometimes.

Speaker 1 (04:47):
Are you gonna keep trying till you get a girl.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
Well, you know, I would have realized that that's in
the cfo's department. So we'll have to see how Ann
feels after this next baby.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
So yeah, I don't, I don't. Yeah, I don't blame
her at all. Four boys, four boys, four boys. Yeah,
there's a lot of testosterone in one household. Yeah, she's
got to be just absolutely everything you could possibly want
in a human being. I mean, she's got to have
fifty arms and the patience of jove and mind that

(05:22):
just cracks on every cylinder she's I can't even imagine
what that woman is juggling at any given moment. So
what a what a trooper she is? She needs to
write her own book and have her own series telling you. Yeah, serious, seriously,
especially when they're all literally climbing the walls. I mean
you hear a mom's coming home and saying, oh my god,

(05:43):
the kids will climbing the walls. But no, your kids
are literally climbing the walls. Our oldest one, he is
he like the main climber or the youngest one's kind
of coming up with him? Was this his idea? I mean,
how did this whole thing get started?

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (05:58):
So in our home, we made this decision kind of
early that we'd set one goal for each kid each
year and h and so and we have we have
a set of rules, and so one of the rules
that we have.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
Three rules for our goals.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
First rule is that it's got to be so big
and so hard that it seems impossible, impossible enough that
you work on it a little bit every day. So
that's rule number one. Number two is that it's got
to be really visual. So we try to pick things
that we can really put on the wall, like we have,
you know, a whole section of our home that showcases
our goals.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
And we always always.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Try to pick things too that like kind of allow
that mountain to kind of like set a record if possible.
And that's why we started going after these youngest assents.
And then rule number three is you can't die.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
So oh okay, I appreciate that one. So yeah, no,
no getting eaten by sharks or you know anything like.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
Okay, so it's hard, it's got to be visual, and
you can't die.

Speaker 1 (06:57):
And the kids get to pick it to take. I say, yeah, yeah,
all right, so you pick it in the kids do
they okay it? I mean how does that happens?

Speaker 3 (07:06):
I mean, when they get to the bottom of the mountain,
they make the decision to do it and so but
they're just not at a place yet to do that.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
You know, it's there. I mean Sam's ten, you know.

Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, and this last last summer we had a phenomenal
time and him trying to climb the matter Horn in Switzerland,
which was a big, huge endeavor. But we missed the
summit by about twelve hundred feet and missed a cutoff
time and it was a pretty hard moment for us
to turn back.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
But we only missed the cutoff time by a few minutes.

Speaker 3 (07:40):
But one of the next lessons I'm really trying to
teach Sam is he's already really beginning to form self
mastery in his life, but next he's really got to
build a bit of humility and respect. And it was
a hard decision to you know, to turn around on
the mountain and turn back when on a perfect day.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
But there was rule number three. So number three.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah for us clubs who only know you know, you
hear Everest, it gets all the love. Tell me a
little bit about the Matterhorn and why that is such
a big goal and the fact the dangerous winds that
I think of the ride, you know, don't know anything
about the actual mountain.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
Well, first of all, the matter Horn is one of
the moost captivating mountains in the whole world. It's it
is the most famous mountain in the world. We think
of Everest in the US as the most famous mountain,
but everyone else in the world thinks of the Matterhorn.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's the most famous mountain.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
It's a cultural thing as well.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
But when you see it, it almost has like this
magic over you, Like it really is this mountain that
just captivates you. You can't stop looking at it. It's
the most brad or I mean it is. It's just
such a spectacular thing.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
To really is beautif Oh, you're right, you're right, it
is actually beautiful.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
I mean, this is the this is on the every
Disney logo. This is on like it's a i mean
there's a chocolate company.

Speaker 5 (09:09):
Yeah yeah, Paramount Pictures. Yeah that's uh yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
It's once you've seen it, Once you see the matter
and you're like, oh, yeah, I've seen the mountain everywhere.

Speaker 1 (09:20):
Yeah, I just didn't realize it.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah, it's it is the mountain of all mountains.
To climb, and it was up for youngest ascent. It's
it's Sam still has another shot at it and getting
the youngest ascent next summer.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
And it's that's a big it.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
Ever looks kind of wimpy next to it. It might
be taller, but it's a little bit slopier. I mean,
you're not going to get any Secret Service agents on
the matterhorn that's for sure. Too much slope slanted yea.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
It is also also it is also a mountain that's
killed a lot of people's h bet I bet even
even on its first ascent. It was it was first
ascent by a team of six and only I think
two of them made it down alive. So six made
it to the summit and then two made it back
to the you know, sermot and uh, the rest perished

(10:13):
on the way down. Which is that mountain kills you
on the way down.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
So it's really so you think once you got up there,
you're you're in the clear, but it gets you on
the way down.

Speaker 3 (10:22):
Yeah. The three climbers that died a week after us
died on the way down. It's it's descending that mountain
that kills you because you're most exhausted. On the descent,
you're you're in the worst weather if you get the
weather windows wrong, and the whole top of the mountain
is broken. So if you get off route on that mountain,
you're in deep trouble. Like it's just you're everything's going

(10:44):
to break off and you're gonna fall thousands of feet.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
So it's and I you and you want to take
your ten year old up there, you freak. I'm gonna
I'm gonna call CPS. Yeah wow. So you can't just
get on the toboggan and call a day, just head
on down. You gotta hangstakingly.

Speaker 3 (11:04):
In another way, it's actually very easy to climb, Like
it's like it the grade is five to six, so
like the only think about climbing grades, like Sam climbs
five up to five twelve in a rock gym, Like
he can climb significantly harder things than the matter Hord.
But it's it's about all those other elements that make
it so extraordinary and difficult.

Speaker 1 (11:26):
Is ever like a cliche at this point or is
it still a bucketless thing that's.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
Still a big deal. It's not a big deal in
our home yet.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
But Sam's talked about it a couple of times, but
I don't know if we'll do that or not. But yeah,
Everest as similar to this, Like anytime you miss the
cut off on a mountain like this, your likelihood of
dying on a mountain goes up like ten times, right.

Speaker 6 (11:50):
Exactly right. You got to hit it just the right time, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah, yeah, especially on this mountain, this particular mountain, at
ten o'clock in the morning on an average day, you
can't even fly kite, whereas at two or three o'clock
on the average day, it's like a white out and
like an eighty mile an hour wind. And so it's
it's a different mountain at a different time. And then
you also run into a constriction where all the people

(12:14):
that did sum it on time are now coming down
on you know, through this constriction where we're coming up.
And so there's a few different that that that creates
a lot of risk for rockfall on you.

Speaker 4 (12:27):
Right.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
Oh okay, I've never thought of that that.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
Makes sense, which will kill you in an instant on
a mountain like this. So yeah, it's it was we
made a decision, you know that we had we were
just missed it by a few minutes and I said,
we missed it, and uh, I had a hard time
to making the decision undoubted.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Travel and the expense and and you know, having to
come back. But that's the thing though, you want to
come back period.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
And I want Sam to respect the mountain in the
future too, like I want him. I had to check
myself is this about my ego or is this about
me parenting Sam? Because you know, in five years he's
going to summit a mountain and hit a cutoff time,
you know, on his own, and.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
And then he has to decide.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
I would prefer that he made the right decision on
that and made the best decision on that, you know,
and climbed another day.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
And that's that's the thing about mountain climbing is if
you die on the mountain, you don't really die a hero.
You know, people say, oh, what an idiot? You know
you don't, yeah, exactly, So people don't look at you
and say, oh, you know, that's not a thing. I mean,
if you run into a burning building and save up,
you know, a basket of puppies or a baby and die,

(13:40):
then people are what a hero and this and that
even if it was dumb, you know, you still get
the heroes welcome, but just climbing a mountain because it's there,
you know, that's a personal that's a very personal thing.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
I mean a week after we are sent three climbers
in the exact same route who shouldn't been up there,
blew through the clutoff times, and all three of them
perished on the mountain.

Speaker 1 (14:04):
That's tragic. That's just tragic.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
You got it, you got it.

Speaker 6 (14:07):
Yeah, that I can't even imagine.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
I mean, and that's basically suiciding yourself. You know, that's
if you know and you're aware, and that's the thing.
You what I've seen from all of your videos. The
safety gear is insane, and you obviously do all of
your homework.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
Do the precautions.

Speaker 5 (14:27):
Oh yeah, you built you know, you build the foundation first.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
That's so important to understand too, because it's like whenever
people find out that, you know, they're rock climbing, like, oh,
I know somebody that died rock climbing. I know something
that happened rock climbing, and and it's kind of like
it's kind of like, let's say there's a road near
your house where there was some car accidents. It's like
it's like, yeah, there were car accidents on that road,
but would you still drive on that road? Well, yeah

(14:52):
you would because you you might be comparing someone who
is driving like one hundred and fifty miles an hour.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
Driving drunk, or driving with yourself.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
You know. And it's like that's really what we're comparing here.
Like now you can climbing.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Every once in a while, there is a god accident
where like like rock collapses or it you know, you
just get you know, smashed in an avalanche like that happens,
but it's it's actually remarkably rare. We're talking like there's
like thirty climbers a year that die, and a high
percentage of them are.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Either like doing things.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
That are like really really hard, pushing the edge of
the sport and dangerous, or they're the people that really
have no idea what.

Speaker 2 (15:33):
They're doing and they're in the mountains.

Speaker 3 (15:35):
It's you know, we're doing this everything in the safest
possible way, and so it's like we're like think of
us as like the slowest, most cautious driver on the road,
you know, and.

Speaker 1 (15:48):
But you're still driving in the Indy five hundred.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
So there is it looks a lot scarier than it is.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
But yeah, it says you. It says you. I was
watching that rope swing and I'm like, and I'm not
even afraid of heights, and I'm like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Nope, no, no, nope.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, I'm more of a water person, So I do
that above water. Maybe, of course the water would be
like cement by the time you hit it from that height.
But yeah, I was looking at that thing and the
little bitty one was like, let's do this, and off
he went. I mean, fearless kids, it's awesome. So what
happens if you know your youngest one says yeah, you know, Dad,

(16:29):
I just really want to I don't know, train dogs
for the blind or something. I'm not interested in mountain climbing.
I mean, what kind of how do you get them?
And what if? I mean, are you open to other
dangerous things, you know, wind surfing or parachuting or well.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
So, first of all, like we're it's a culture within
our family. So it's like, I feel like one of
my goals as a parent is too is is to
help each kid find that superpower. And I accept that,
you know, like climbing might not be their like main
thing at some point, Like, but it's part of our family.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
It's it's literally how we parent and how we relate.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
It would be like, you know what if there are
times that my kid doesn't want to go to school
or doesn't want to do.

Speaker 2 (17:21):
Basic it's like rock climbing is actually part of the
DNA of our family. So it's.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
It's not like, yeah, he's not into rock climbing at all,
Like that wouldn't. I can't even imagine that climbing is
something that children naturally do. It's actually something that they unlearn,
you know, throughout their life like unless.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
You unless you parent.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
So one of the rules in our homes we ask
our kids to climb something every day and that's a
rule that we've set of rules in our homes. That's
one of our top rules.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
And uh, it's we're building that culture with in our family.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
And the other thing to think about too is like
this is literally how we parent, Like like giving level one,
which I'm working on with Sylvan and Joey right now,
is all about self regulation. It's like helping them overcome
their emotion and like push through when their body is
freaking out and.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Exploding as every kid has to do.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
We just do that at a really early age when
they're hanging off of ropes.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
And could you come work on my husband with that,
that'd be great, no.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Comments, he explodes and every once in a while.

Speaker 3 (18:33):
But like self regulation is level one, and it's like
once we get through that, then we can start building
self discipline.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
And the self disciplines.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Come on on that foundation of self regulation. And it's
like in one of those self disciplines is courage. And
as they begin to find courage, which courage isn't not
having fear, for courage is having tremendous fear and pushing
through it exactly. And then once you have that, then
you begin to build self confidence.

Speaker 4 (19:04):
You know.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
It's like we say, clarity brings confidence, and confidence is
what brings courage, and so like there's this connection between
courage and confidence that's really important. And uh yeah, and
then and then the next layer for Sam is self mastery.
That's where we begin to see him like own these
things and like he's now every daily like working on himself.

(19:26):
He realizes that he needs certain things and like he
doesn't have to be you know, coerced to kind of
train he's he wants it now, and so that's like
a really exciting next step. And he did this crazy
climb called the Dangler, which if I showed you a
picture of it, you think I was nuts.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
But I think I have that picture your pres skit
where he's hanging by his fingertips.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
Yes, it's.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, And he did that, you know, and he did that.
That picture has him on top of rope, but he
led the route.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
So he he put.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
In the gear and and did the route lead, which
is really a bold thing for a nine year old
at the time. Yeah, so you can see that we
parent in this way, right.

Speaker 1 (20:09):
Yeah, and you kind of double dipped with Sam and
I have a unique perspective on this climbing mountains pushaw.
The kid is a public speaker, and that is human
beings number one fear and they fear it more than death.
So this kid is seriously brave. And I don't think

(20:31):
a lot of people recognize. They're like, oh wow, mountain
climbing this and that, Yeah, danger, ropes, the whole bit.
Have you seen this kid articulate in front of an audience?
I mean, good lord. I think it was Seinfeld who said,
you know, most people when they have to deliver a eulogy.
Would rather be in the box instead of in front
of it and watching him speak as if you know,

(20:52):
that's just something he's always done. That itself is a skill.
So he's got When you talk about bravery, you've really
crossed a threshold here, both in the climbing and for
him to look a camera in the lens and speak,
and even if it's prepared, that's something ninety nine point
nine percent of the planet cannot do. So this kid

(21:14):
has already developed. He's only ten years old. He's already
got a skill set that most people aspire to for
their entire life. So good honors if they aspire to.

Speaker 5 (21:23):
It and they think about how that would be really
nice if they did that.

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Yeah, there's a big difference.

Speaker 5 (21:28):
Between that and what you and your son are and
your sons are accomplishing. Yeah, No, it's it's admirable, to
put it mildly, that's got to that's that's going to
create a special bond between you and them for life
that the rest of us we just were. I mean,
we have good relationships with our family, perhaps, but it's

(21:51):
not going to be at that same kind of it's
going to be at a unique level with you.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
For it's a most cellular I mean, like I said,
it's part of your your cold sure in your family
and yeah, yeah, pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Pretty cool and.

Speaker 5 (22:05):
Sets him up for success because you know, he's not
going to have to read Napoleon Hill books in his
twenties to get to get the to get positive attitude. Yeah,
because he's literally conquered mountains and he's not even a
teenager yet.

Speaker 6 (22:20):
So it's just that's it's mind blowing.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
So here's here's the opposite side of that. When you
have conquered such huge undertakings. If he comes home from
f and math, he's going to be like, ah, that's nothing.
Are how are you going to cultivate the aspect of Okay,
but you've also got to succeed at these moon dane
everyday things that the rest of the world expense.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
Yeah, well, we're right in this stage. So right now,
it's self mastery. The next next stage that we kind
of man and I are really talking about is self
surrender and really beginning to understand humility and understanding some
of these other virtues that we want to build into
the kid. And we just climbing in the same way
to develop those as well. But like, yeah, we want

(23:07):
Sam to approach everything with excellence and to say, you know,
I'm going to get it done. You know, he's he's
got a little chicken business where he has sold all
the neighbors on subscription to.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Buy his eggs and lovely and.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
We definitely challenged Sam in all of the areas of
his life to be the best he can, you know,
And so does that answer your question?

Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I love the idea that he is
also in business and hopefully learning savings and all the
things that go with managing money and things like that.
Little jag, I just want to let you know we
can do on our show. I wore my Faith over
Fear shirt in your honor, and I know a lot
of the mainstream stuff you don't get to talk about faith,

(23:55):
we talk about faith on our podcast, So feel free
to bring that up. I've got just a to any
little sense that that is a part of your life,
which I think is fantastic and I think is why
you're so successful on top of everything else that you've done.
So feel free to bring that in as well.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
On a once ago, when a cup of faith, it's
like every every major developed character in the Bible climb mountains.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
They're all mountaineers literally.

Speaker 3 (24:20):
Yeah, it's there's something really unique and special about somebody
in the mountain. You know, nothing puts you more in
touch with your mortality, nothing, you know, presents more of
the creation than climbing mountains. And it's it's a very
holy and special thing that, you know, more more Christians

(24:42):
need to do.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Yeah, it's funny because you hear about this story of
Moses climbing the mountain to talk to God, and they
always have this old decrepit man with a cane and
he's wearing robes and sandals, like, No, I'm pretty sure
he was actually climbing a mountain because he was gone
for days and days at a time, you know. And
I always thought that was kind of funny because that's

(25:04):
you know, just like.

Speaker 4 (25:05):
You're just walking up some stairs or something.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
Yeah, he just went around the corner, you know. It's like, no, No,
he was actually subbody in a mountain and talking to him.
And that I can see where, you know, you would
almost kind of feel closer to God. That's where I
feel closest is out in the woods. And it's not
because that's where he is, because he's everywhere, but that's
where you feel that connection and the physical exertion is

(25:28):
part of that. You know, you're you're getting beyond the
physicality and more into the spirituality. Do you sense that
and do you feel that Samson's is that?

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (25:37):
I mean actually he recently he bought a few books
just recently, and I didn't have any like say in
what the books he bought, and all of them were
like devotion books.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Wow, that's pretty cool, like.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
Yeah, over over things like Harry Potter and all that, Like, yeah,
does And so he's really starting to ask the right
questions and want want to develop his you know, his
faith and have a relationship with God.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
So I see that developing.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
That is that is awesome. You gotta love a kid
who starts his own business and buys books with the money.
That's great. Yeah, I bought candy. That's fantastic. Okay, So
as a parent, I mean, I know you're fearless, but
have you ever had moments of fear watching your children? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (26:33):
So we were we were climbing a route called Petite
or Pond, and it was in it was an Estes Park.
It's a massive mountain it's definitely this is a major
youngest ascent to do. No one would believe that I
would take Sam and hit the age.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
We took him up there. He was seven. And what
happened was.

Speaker 3 (26:53):
We were we were on a ledge and this goat
showed up, and the goat.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
Was like really really friendly.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
It would want to stand like ten feet away from me,
and and we just we thought it was just kind
of a funny thing, you know, And so we kept
climbing and this goat just followed us up the wall.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
And it was so bizarre that like the rock. I
couldn't believe how hard the like the climbing that the
goat could do.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, and like the whole and it's always on hoofs,
so you feel like it's coming off any second because.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Right the amazing, Yeah, I don't know how.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
They do that. So amazing.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
So we get on this giant ledge and because the
ledge is so wide and like and so the route,
I go up this section rock, but then you go
across the ledge then go up the next section of
the rock, if that makes sense, and so and so,
because the ledge was so wide, I let Sam just
walk across this ledge to the other beginning of the

(27:50):
next section of the climb, and that's about one hundred
foot across. And he had a rope on him the
whole way, but it wasn't attached to the wall anywhere
but but where I was at the at the top
of the last pitch, and somehow this goat gets between
me and Sam and gets tangled in the rope.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Oh yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
And and as soon as the animal gets tangled, it
thinks we're like trapping it.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Of course it freaks out.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, and it just bolts across this ledge, dragging my son,
you know, at high speed, across this ledge ledge and
he falls off.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
The front of it.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
He's got one hundred feet of line out and he's
gonna just you know, cheese grade himself on the front
of the rock.

Speaker 4 (28:37):
You know, it.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
Would be devastating.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
And then you've got to hold him and a goat. Yeah,
the name of a beer line holds your goat.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
Well, there was another climber that like dive tackled Sam
into a bush and held him down like before he
went over the edge, and and that curated enough rope
tension for the rope to for the goat to kind
of break free.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
The goat almost went off the cliff too. It was something.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
It was like it was a drama that unfolded, and
that was our one really scary harp like.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I mean, it was scary of what happened. It was so.

Speaker 6 (29:24):
Hard and here's a goat, have a goat.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Well, now we can officially say that Sam is always
cool under pressure. Nothing gets his goat. Yeah, they don't
get they don't get it. They don't get any better. Wow.
So how did he feel about that whole situation?

Speaker 3 (29:43):
I don't feel like he could fully comprehended the danger
he was in that at seven, He just fully didn't comprehend. Really,
what would happen if he went over the front of
that wall because he was clipped in he did wasn't
he was on a rope, but it would have it
would have been we would have left in chopper for sure,
and yeah, come off that wall.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Wow. Well that kind of leads us to another question.
I mean, young kids are fearless. I mean they'll jump
off of roofs thinking they're Superman. How do you balance
that kind of dumb kittedness with literally doing things that
are deathly and dangerous and things like that.

Speaker 3 (30:23):
You're right, because I do definitely trick that up a
notch too. You know, like our kids have a playground
in our backyard that takes them up forty to fifty
feet into our trees. You know, it's like that we've
built you know, all these I.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Was gonna ask about that. I had an idea there
was something pretty fun going on in the backyard.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
We have a whole series of nets that we've woven
that draw you way up into the trees, and we
even have a hanging tent that's about fifty feet up.
And then there's these kids know how to use ascenders
and climb ropes, and so there's all these ropes on
trees and they're always swinging from lines in the trees,
like I'm always training them in this, and so it

(31:01):
is kind of like take it up a big notch.
And so what's important is that there's like these basic
foundations of like for instance, you know in the foundations
is that we always are clipped in. It's like when
you change sometimes from one system to the next, you
connect to the new one, then you disconnect the old one.
And that's a pattern that everyone in the family develops

(31:23):
at the age of like five or six, where we
really begin to instill these like very core you know
climbing tenants.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
You know that then are the same on the big wall.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
On the wall, it's like you're never like, oh, I'm
just unclipped and then clip back in like you are.
You're you're going from one system to the next in
a very controlled order.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
You never you never know what a goat's going to
jump in the mid You want to make sure.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
You know the goat through everything off. There's nothing in
our training to ever prepare.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
For that, nor will that ever happen again.

Speaker 5 (31:56):
So now you don't know that though I'd be there,
good god, the odds are incredibly.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yetty, I'd be prepared for anything at this point.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Yeah, Well, I talked if Annie clamor Is about the
ghost situation and they were they were like, wow, I've
never even heard of that either. No one's ever gotten
yanked off the mountain by a goat, So.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
There's always the first time. There's always the first time. Yeah,
at least then you'd go down in history. You definitely
have signed the book there.

Speaker 5 (32:23):
So I have a question this, how do you respond
to other parents who react with shock and maybe a
little bit of disdain at what you're doing. I mean,
we think it's fantastic. My dad never would have done
anything like that.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
Yeah, but we're talking about the peanut allergy safe space.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Not even that just just I don't want to say normal.

Speaker 5 (32:52):
But you know, your average your average parent mainstream, let's
use that term mainstream. When you're met with that kind
of a reaction, and I know that has to happen
from time to time. What is your what is your
I won't say defense, but what is your How do
you respond?

Speaker 3 (33:10):
I guess would be the best first of all, James,
It's far worse than you can imagine. Actually, it's we've
got we've got people like calling CPS on us because.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Not only not only have we done this? Do you
do this stuff? We publish it, we put it, put
it online. You know it's right.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
It's.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
I honestly am trying to like push the envelope and
get more parents out there, take your kids camping, get
them out out of their comfort zone, like this is
when you're really parenting like at its best.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
And and so because.

Speaker 3 (33:49):
Of that, there are people that are really upset at
what we're doing. And uh, I'm coming to a place
with a lot more grace for them. To be honest,
they don't understand, they don't have a clue what we're doing.
And you can tell that like parenting in a lot

(34:11):
of ways, Like you know, we all have our idols.
Everyone has these idols, and for a lot of people,
safety is this idol that they bow to and it's
above everything else. And you know, we kind of say
we put safety third, you know, it's a third rule.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Yeah, but don't die. It's a pretty substantial.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
Exactly exactly, and so we safety is incredibly important to
our family, but it's not like an idol that we
are going to bow to, you know, because what's there's
things that are more important in our parenting than everything
being as safe as humanly possible. Like if safety was
the idol and we were really true to it, we

(34:55):
would never.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
Put a kid in an automobile.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
We would never do that, right, exactly, it's the most
the door, it's the most like the way.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
They're to die is in a car crash.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
And certainly we wouldn't let them play football, you know,
tackle football or and you start looking at the statistics
of what kills kids, like things like choking and falling
into a pool and you know, and like drowning, like
like there's there's not even a statistic on the amount
of kids who've died climbing because there aren't any. Like

(35:27):
it's it's actually incredibly safe. Go back to my analogy
of you know, there are people that die on the road,
but they're high percentage of them are drunk, or they're
driving really fast, or they're driving really crazy, you know,
you know what I mean. It's it's like we're the
safest climbers on the wall, and it's so important to
understand that. But but a lot of parents don't. A

(35:48):
lot of people just see it. It looks scary, it
looks high, and so these people must be reckless, you know, right.

Speaker 5 (35:55):
And I can tell by all the safety gear and
the practice and all that there's that you're that's.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
Completely safe for them.

Speaker 5 (36:04):
The chances of them getting hurt, like you said, in
a car crash or some other normal way it.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
Was going to be trip and fall, or they stick
a fork in a light socket. I mean, anything can
go wrong at any time. You can't just stop living, right.
I feel like I feel like we've almost given permission
as society to be fearful, which is the wrong way
to go, especially in this country, and I think COVID
really painted that darkly as people were willing to just

(36:35):
give up everything to feel safe. It's like, okay, guys, guys,
we got to live, you know, we can't just give up,
right And I can see you know, parents, Yes, your
child is precious and absolutely protect your child. Do you not
put that child in the way of where they will
be harmed, But don't wrap them like you say, in
bubble wrap, and you know, keep them out of society altogether.

Speaker 5 (36:59):
You do have to at some point you have to
go out there, you know, just it's and deal with
the realities of life. And I think you're your kids
are going to be better prepared than ninety five percent
of the of the population when comes their time. And
it's not gonna be that long from now when they're
they're going to be running things, and you know, we

(37:22):
need we need courageous people.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
We're also teaching them skills that transcend just the physicality
of mountain climbing. You're teaching delayed gratification. You're teaching, you know,
like your kid has a business sense. You're teaching how
to be prepared, how to plan I mean, these are
all things that they'll carry within the rest of their lives.
I wouldn't put it past them to become successful entrepreneurs

(37:45):
and and and go forward with those skills.

Speaker 5 (37:49):
Absolutely, the i'm seeing public speaker, I'm seeing somebody with
sam for sure, traveling the country and doing and doing
President Let's do this.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
I mean, I mean it's you're right, sure they have.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
They're beginning to build that inner strength and you see it,
and it's it's going to transform because like it's you know,
we think you know.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
People ask me, like, are these.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
Boys going to be all rock climbers as their profession,
And I'm like, kind of hope not, Like it seems
like kind of a small story.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Really it doesn't.

Speaker 3 (38:24):
Most of climbers don't serve others like i'd want my
voice to. But like what they will have is they're
going to face something that's the size of El Capitan,
and they're going to be like, I think I can
figure this out. I think I can overcome this, you know,
And that's what I want for them.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, So have you ever done a climb where you
planned it meticulously? And then I mean I know when
you did the the the big El Capitan that the
the I guess the climbers above you lost their gear
or something and you had to take an an entire
extra day, which he was really cute about it because

(39:04):
he said it, and you could tell that he wanted
to say it is sucked, but he didn't. He controls
himself and and you did what you had to do.
But have you ever had to just completely jag in
a different direction. I know, there's the one we had
to give up. Well, I not give up, but choose
not to continue at that point, because there's a big
difference there because I know you haven't given up, But

(39:26):
have you ever been in the middle of it and
you've had to completely dog leg into a different, different plan?

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (39:33):
I mean, like the big, the big that that situation
on Al Capatan was a big deal. That the climbs
in front of us got a haul bag stuck on
this flake and it was actually like hanging, you know,
two hundred feet right above us, which is very scary.
It was like we were scared that they were that
they could cut the rope and drop this heavy bag
on us, which would total.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Our team be terrible.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
But we and we just kind of had to like
stay out of the way of it, couldn't get we
couldn't follow them until they got that released.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
And and that meant we had to climb through the night.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
That meant that Sam had to climb in the dark
on El Capitan, which flying, I mean, I imagine looking
down with the headlamp and just seeing all the light
just be absorbed.

Speaker 4 (40:18):
In the dark. Yeah, like you one big nothing.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Why why did you have to climb through the night.
Why why couldn't you just stay another day?

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Like we needed to get to camp because the way
we rigged the wall was that we had we had
we had first descended the part of the wall and
dropped a camp at a certain location, and so like
there was resources that we needed to get to that
were there, and so we could have camped where we
were at, but it would have totally set us back

(40:50):
to where to finishing this this this this climb. And
so it was you know, Sam was tired, Sam was exhausted,
It was cold, it was and then the darkness is
like a oh, it's it's like another level of fear.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Yeah, I can't imagine spending the night off in the mountain,
much less climbing in the middle of the night something.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
Yeah, because you only see now, you can only see
like twenty or thirty feet out and then like of
the route and everything else is I mean, it's it's
like a sea of darkness.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
It's really a terrifying eary thing.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, I have.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
A stupid non climber question. How come you had to
drag the stuff from the bottom up. Why couldn't you
have people at the top lowering it to you.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
Well, first of all, El Capitan is overhanging, so like you,
if you want them to lower it to you, it
takes multiple repels. And we kind of actually did that
by bringing that camp down from the top.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
That did lighten up our load.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
From the bottom, but it, you know, it's still I
mean it's a haul of gear up. I mean in
just water, we had to manage like two hundred pounds
of water.

Speaker 1 (42:01):
It's insane.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
So yeah, I mean it's it's you drink so much
water when you're on these walls, and if you that's
the worst possible situation.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Is running out of water, Like you can't run run
out of water.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
And not to be vulgar or anything, but that's something
only a boy could do, because I can't imagine having
to go to the bathroom on the in the middle
of a climb like that. I mean, how do you
even that? Don't even my wife does just fine, Well,
let's talk about it offline. You'll have to explain it
to me because I'm going to need diagrams or something. Yeah.
So that's I find that fascinating that you can do that,

(42:37):
because I know for me, the whole thing about you know,
does the beargo in the woods? It's like not if
I can help it, you know, I'll hold it.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
Yeah, make it difficult if you're.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Also climbing, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, so there's I'm
sure there's a whole rig just for that I can imagine.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Let's just say you don't have a lot of privacy, okay.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Yeah, that's another thing.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Yeah, you make it quick and people look away.

Speaker 3 (43:02):
You know, it's pretty there's not a lot of it's
nowhere to go, there's no trees to hide behind. Or
I mean, like if you really, if you got to
take a duke, you're like, you let you let your
partner but climb ahead.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
And then you're on the leg it. Okay, so you
don't have to do it right next to him.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Right right, always always go downstream. Okay, all right, so
what what is next for Sam?

Speaker 3 (43:29):
Uh So, we're figuring we're still we're still figuring it
out whether we're going to be the matter or next summer,
or whether we're going to try out Capitan again. We're
still figuring that out. And uh So when Sam climbed
up cap it was a full rope ascent.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
He it was the safest and easiest possible way.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
And really in climbing, he a real assent is going
to be him putting his using his hands on the
rock and using like gear to work his way up
the rock. And uh and so we're we're heading in
that direction, and so some friends you're going to do that.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
I've always wondered if there's like this kind of snooty
thing between mountain climbers with their their poles and their
boots and the thing and rock climbers with their gear
and the you know, crawling your way. I mean, when
you see a group coming down a mountain, do you
get kind of that walking through first class into coach

(44:29):
kind of feeling? Is there any sort of clash between
the two or are you all just one big, happy family.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
That there's actually all sorts of like drama within the
climbing community. We face that. Honestly, there's whenever you do
anything great, it's there's a lot of jealousy, especially in climbing,
because climate is kind of like has always been kind
of this like samurai sport when people do these like
really dangerous like almost like souper risky things and then

(45:01):
get zero recognition for it, Like they get like no
one knows like their name, you know, and suddenly Sam
yet on every news station in the world, you know,
for climbing El Capitain as a represent and a lot
of climbers were pissed off about that. They were they
were so mad that he gets all this attention, you know,

(45:23):
and they don't get any attention, you know. And he
did it the easiest way, and I'm like, yeah, but
he's eight and like that is like and and then
and then all the reporters get everything wrong. They don't
really know the language of climbing, so they say, like
Sam free climbed El Capitain and he did not free climb.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
Nobody would do that.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
They used the wrong terms.

Speaker 3 (45:43):
Yeah, and so then the climbery community assumes that I
like lied to them, you know, because they use the
wrong terms, and it's like now, I was like, these
people don't even know what they're talking about, you know,
And and there's just there was a lot of upset climbers.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
There still are.

Speaker 3 (45:59):
There's lot of people that think, you know, Sam, she
didn't have all this recognition and attention. But you know,
it's the the other truth to it too is I'm
really good at marketing, and I'm.

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Just going to say you have a really good marketer,
so that that kind of the marketer at the end.

Speaker 6 (46:16):
It's not about self aggrandizement after all.

Speaker 5 (46:19):
I mean that the whole you're you're doing this to
make a point about you know, not setting I mean
there's you're you're not setting silly limits on your kids,
you know. And this is this is my interpretation of
everything that you've been doing as far as the marketing,
and it is just to inspire other people.

Speaker 6 (46:40):
It's not to say, hey, look at us.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
I mean I would do this without the cameras, but
I've realized that it's something our generation needs, it's something
that needs to be told.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
Like and because of that and those other climbers, I mean,
like you said, you are your own marketer. Well, that
is a skill in and of itself. And back to
what I was saying at the beginning, the overcoming the
fear of public speaking is as surmountable as a mountain.
And these other climbers obviously haven't done that because they

(47:12):
could go out there and tell their story, they could
get in front of cameras and do the same thing.
A lot of people just say, well I need to
sit back and wait for them to come to me. Well,
you didn't do that, and that's that's why you are
getting the recognition you're getting. And they might not understand that.
You know, they think, well, if I just do something great,
you know they're going to find me. That's not how
it works, right, Yeah, that's not how that it.

Speaker 3 (47:35):
Or they think because we have all this attention, we
cheated you know somehow, you know, and it's not fair.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
And well it's all on videos, so it's not like
you could hide it.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (47:46):
They take an awful lot of special effects and cgi
money to fake that stuff.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Yeah, but I wish these other climbers would reach out
to me and be like, hey, I can help you
with your pr Like I'd be glad to tell you
how to do it and how to get.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Like yeah, you think they would embrace it. You think
they'd be like, hey, when I have kids, I want
him to be like Sam. Or you think he would
be kind of like a full hero he I don't know,
mascot even.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
Well I want to say we have that too. We
we do have some of those out there. But like,
but but it was amazing how harsh the attack was
on Sam. Like, and it was from a small amount
of people that make a lot of noise, which is
all yeah, it's just like you know, it's like it's

(48:33):
a small amount of deeople that make a lot of
noise that really wreck it for.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
You know, anybody that wants to stick out, you know.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah, so you said people will actually call CPS, so
they're like, hey, this kid's climbing a mountain.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
I mean yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
And what does CPS do, Like, Okay, we got another Karen.
I mean, it's not like you're abusing them, it's not
like you're forcing them.

Speaker 3 (48:58):
But my risk is that at some point we will
have an injury you know, I don't matter, or something
will happen. It is a it is a big fear
and that it makes me even take everything I do
to another level, like of check check, triple check safety,
you know, like we always I'm really conscious of that.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
But how would how would say, like a twisted ankle
or even a broken bone, you know, falling off a
mountain or having a rope accident be any different than
slipping in the bathtub or tipping over the dog. I mean,
you face those risks regardless.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
There was.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
A friend of mine who climbed the Lost Arrow with me,
and he brought his son with him and we both
slept on this lost I don't know if you saw
Lost Ara Spire, but it's one of the most the
raddest things we did with our son.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
He did it at six.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
He he was he was actually jumping from one boat
to another, like a few weekends ago. And the guy
hit the gas by accident when he jumped, and he
jumped into the propeller.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Ye cut his feet to pieces.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
And and it's like it's like this guy has climbed
all over the like something some extraordinary things like and
then bam, like who would have thought that accident could happen?
You know, and we don't know, like hopefully he'll be
able to walk you know again, and we don't know,
but like.

Speaker 4 (50:22):
Wow, oh yeah, climbs probably.

Speaker 3 (50:27):
Like these things can happen anywhere, like right, right, They're
actually much more likely to happen anywhere else but climbing.
But the fact that we climb so much, Yeah, there's
a chance that my kid will drop a rock on
me and you know and really injure me, you know,
And so it's that's something we face, you know.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yeah, but but but it's.

Speaker 3 (50:52):
Just it's like you said, it's like anything else, Like
there are accidents that happen when people play football or
in gymnastics. It happens all the time. Like karate. There's
like people that die every year in karate, way more
than die rock climbing.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
These kids.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Yeah, yeah, Well, and you consider everything that's come out
with like child pageantry and you know, you were mentioning
gymnastics and all of that, your kids are kind of
safer up on a mountain from other people than a
lot of these other kids.

Speaker 3 (51:26):
I would argue that I think that's true. I think, like,
so my brother here's here's here's a good one.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
You like this.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
My brother is in the motocross and he has a
boy named Emmitt and Emmett wins all these championships and
like he launches these jumps like I I like, is
sick to my stomach seeing this kid like forty feet
in the air like on like this little kid on
a motorbike.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
And I'm like that, there's no there's no craziest thing
I can even come up with.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
I'm like, we're not, We're not doing that kid's you know.

Speaker 4 (52:01):
And so.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
I was gonna ask you if there's a no go
zone as far as risk, and I think your brother.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Like, oh my gosh, this is too much. I can't.
I can't take it like he had.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
He had to build up to that. I mean you start,
like in gymnastics, you start with some resaults and you
fall a lot and you crash a lot. I mean,
how many times did this kid fallow off his motorcycle
or crash off? Yeah? And he still goes.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
Thousand times yeah yeah. And And I think I think
that's what we all don't see. We all don't see
the building up to it. We all don't see what
it took to get Sam up El Capitan. That was
many years and like thousands of hours of like intentional
one on one face to face with Sam, working through him,

(52:53):
like working on him, developing him, and all three boys
are experiencing that.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Yeah, every ever entertainer, every celebrity, everyone we've ever talked to.
Our interview, we talk about the concept of you know,
working years and years and years and years to become
an overnight sensation. You know, they only see what happens here.
But it's like you don't see you know, the iceberg.
That's the work that we did. Yeah, so I can
see where climbers who who should know better would look

(53:23):
at this kid and say he's only getting attention because
he's a kid. It's like, dude, two years of training,
two years of training.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
And none of them have had kids. None of these
people have kids.

Speaker 3 (53:33):
So right, so they have no clue what it means
to get an eight year old of l Cavatan Like, yeah,
eight year olds can't tie their shoes like right, eight
year olds like a really, most eight year olds haven't
even entered the concept of really self regulation yet.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
That's like where it begins. I had to start.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
That at five, okay, And like it's like there's so
much that they don't understand what it actually took to
do that. And so they think, oh, this is nothing.
He just he just climbed the ropes up El Caftan.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
They did the easiest one, Like if you throw a
kid at a mountain, he'll just suction cup to it
and call it a day. Like they don't even understand
the work that they themselves did. I mean, I'm kind
of blown away by that attitude.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Yeah, yeah, that's the heart.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
That's one of the hardest parts is that there's and
there's a whole section of climate community just wants to
cancel us and yeah, you know, but but honestly, the
truth is that comes with everything.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
It was.

Speaker 2 (54:26):
Have you guys ever heard of the Incline here in
Colorida Springs?

Speaker 4 (54:29):
M h, I've heard it.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
You've heard of it. Okay.

Speaker 3 (54:31):
So it's like a it's like a set of stairs
that go up a mountain up Heiss and people up
from all around the world to do it. Well, there's
a woman who made it her goal to hike it
more times than anyone any woman ever has in a year.
And it was like she has I think she's like
twelve hundred times or something like that, which means it
takes like you know, most people takes him like forty

(54:53):
minutes to an hour per time, and to do that
a thousand times, Like she has to do that every day,
like three four times a day on average. You know,
it's a massive, crazy goal. Well there's another woman who
was trying to do it too, and she was hundreds
of reps behind her the first one, and so they
get in this yelling match, and this other woman like files.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
A restraining order on her. She threatened her.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
Life, so that now that can't have to be she
has to go walk up and down the thing at
night and like, but it's like, no matter what you do,
there's someone out there to diminish you, to attack you,
to de tree, and I'm thinking it is the most
absurd thing in the world. First off, to walk up
and down these steps twelve hundred times in.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
A year, the same thing over and over. Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
How was there somebody out there that would attack that
and diminish that and like and be ticked about it.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
I just imagine what a great friendship they could have
developed it They're like, hey, let's do this together totally.
I mean, just imagine lifelong friends. They share the deepest
secrets that you know have I mean, instead that it's
a it's a competition lesson.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
In human nature though it's so totally Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
Do you shelter Sam from all of this or are
you using that as a learning opportunity as well.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
Like like if he gets the tiniest, tiniest doses of it,
like but we have to give it to him, but
we but certainly like so, so it's another conversation of
why Sam's on Instagram and our thoughts on social media
is that you know, Sam's on Sam's on Instagram. He's
like famous on Instagram. There's all these brand brands pay

(56:40):
pay us to have him on there. But he sees
his Instagram account maybe once every like two weeks, you know,
even though we make content with him, he's he doesn't
really know what's in there.

Speaker 1 (56:52):
But well he's frankly not old enough to be on
social media himself. No, I mean, it's it's crazy out there.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
That's the way are dangerous than rock climbing, Yeah, exactly so,
and so so there are people out there that hate him,
you know what I mean, and that like attack us,
you know, and and I give him just the smallest
doses of that. I let him know, like the small
doses of that, because I want him to know that
there's bullies out there, that the world is hard, and

(57:20):
that people are going to attack him as he does
great things. But I need to do that carefully as
he develops, and we I'm definitely sheltering him from the
majority of it, but but I have to give some
of that to him. And it's it's a conversation me
and Anne talk about, like what do we tell him?

Speaker 2 (57:38):
What do we show him?

Speaker 4 (57:41):
You know?

Speaker 2 (57:41):
How do then?

Speaker 1 (57:42):
How does how does he deal with that without becoming
bitter himself or becoming a bully himself? You know, because
he's he's going to have to deal with kids his
age who aren't where he is intellectually, physically, even emotional
maturity at his level, Like you said, you have to

(58:03):
start at six teaching him these these things that most
kids don't even understand or or are able to develop
into until they're much much older. So the level of
emotional maturity, has he ever had like a total breakdown,
just like turned into a total thumbsucking kid on on
a on a stint at all? Ever?

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Oh yeah, I've like footage of it. I published it.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
Yeah, Yeah, he's uh.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
Totally.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Call CPS on me so absolutely.

Speaker 3 (58:34):
But but you know, it's it's so it's it's so
important that like we're thinking intentionally about developing our kids.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
That's that's what me and Ann want to do.

Speaker 3 (58:43):
We want to see him, you know, really thrive and
and the armor for that stage of like facing the
bullies out there and all that is humility. It's like
that is the neck, that is the stage that we
are going into. That is the reason we turned around
on uh on the matter horn is because this next
stage is about him learning that respect of the mountain

(59:07):
and respect of really what honestly, it's this is how
I define humility. Humility is not shrinking yourself to less
than you are. Humility is standing in your greatest stature,
in your most powerful state, and realizing the smallness of
your greatness.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
That's that's good.

Speaker 3 (59:27):
That mountains do this to you, and it's like when
you respect them, you realize it's like I am I
am really really strong to be able to do this,
and then you realize how massive this thing is and that.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
This mountain could shake me off like a nack.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Yeah, like you're standing before God.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
It's like literally yeah, literally, any absolute positive, no go
just nope, not going to do it, even if the
kids really really pop up and down and want to
do it soloing.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
We don't a solo anything. In fact, there's a number
of movies about soloing. And Sam has a teacher at
school that keeps talking to him about these climbing movies.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
And I'm like, what.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
Is this teacher doing, Like, stop talking to my kids
about these like horrendous climbing movies. I don't want my
kids watching like. It's like that in our house. That's
like our kids watching porn. Like it's like it is
not okay for my kids to watch anything with solid
Whenever we see.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Somebody with Sylvester Stallone and the woman falling, you know,
that's what people are automatically.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
I've never show him that either. That's just stupid. No,
that is not even climbing.

Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
Yeah, that's that's fiction.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
That's like Mackey Jacques flus So watch Jaws over and
over again. I mean, what's the point is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
But like we see it all, we see you all
soloing at these cliffs and like and there's one one
cliff that this guy climbs up over and he's like, oh, hey, guys,
what's up? And that guy knew who Sam was. And
just so you know, when you leave here, I'm gonna
tell him you're the dumbest person here. So because I
do I ever think it's cool to do this, so solo,

(01:01:05):
you know, And so we make fun of anybody.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
That thinks it's okay to solo, just.

Speaker 3 (01:01:10):
Because I want to ingrain it young in my kids
that this is not acceptable, like respect your life, Like
it's yeah, teamwork is important one second you're dead.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Don't trust yourself exactly. It's like whenever I have an
author tell me I edited the book myself, I'm like,
are you stupid? I don't care. If you're a professional editor,
you don't edit your own stuff. You know, it's kind
of the same thing because you know you're going to
miss something because you're too close to it. You need
the outside. And this is also a very important life

(01:01:44):
lesson outside of climbing. Is no one to ask for help,
no one to accept help, know how to, like Jim said,
play well with teams. I mean, those are all life
giving skills that will make you a more sucessful human
being throughout. So I love how you just get all

(01:02:05):
of this into this activity, and the way you're doing
it is so thoughtful. It's it's it's very impressive. I'm
going to leave it on that because I I don't
want to blow too much smoke up here. Two two,
I want to give you a chance to let everybody
know again where you can find Sam and his antics.
You said mainly on the Insta.

Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
And he is Facebook, Sam Adventure or Samuel Adventure you'll
find him. And he is also on sam Samuel Adventure
dot com. Okay, actually I think it's sam Adventure dot
com one of the two.

Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
Okay, Well, Joe, you've been a genuine pleasure. I really
and pray that Sam has many more adventures ahead of
him as well as the other two boys. Congratulate. Do
you have a name for the new one?

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
I do, but you know I've heard it from the Lord,
but Anne hasn't yet, so she's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Not there yet, so we've got to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
You're gonna hold back, all right, I say, Okay, awesome, Well,
congratulations on the upcoming child. When when does he do?

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
December ninth?

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Okay, and you're going to get him on a mountain
December fifteenth.

Speaker 6 (01:03:08):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Now that we have three other ones.

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
I think this one will be sheltered a little longer
of Oh, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
It's going to be the worst of all. And he's
going to be the one standing in the bathtub holding
the toaster. Come on, dad, let me on a mountain.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
Yeah, his first first mountain, that hillis end, will be
at five. So every boy that's been this journey, it
starts at five.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
So do you think you'll ever have like a team
where you have all the kids on the rope going.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
We did the summer We did the summer week. When
Joey climbed Pingora, I had Sam lead the pitch and
then I let it alongside him, and then Joey and
Sylvan came up on ropes and Sylvan kind of coached
Joey along, and me and Anne were there to like chaperone.
We built their own climbing system to follow them. And
so Anne was always on the ledge with Sylvan and Joey,

(01:04:02):
and I was always up leading alongside Sam. And so
it's like we had all the whole family moving up
the wall this summer. And some beautiful pictures of that,
I'll send them to you. I would pictures and video
and any of this like over there.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Absolutely, Yeah, I'm going to have a video going on
the side and pictures as we talk about it. I
do spend quite a bit of time. I don't try
to edit the actual interview itself, so it's got the
flow and people don't think we're saying stuff offline and
whatnot unless it is something really stupid like blowing your
nose or swearing or something. But I do edit its

(01:04:41):
for you know, it looks nice and has videos and
whatnot going on in the side, and I will be
please to watch all the h uh because YouTube despises
us because our our politics don't lean in the direction
that they're supposed to, so we get most of our
on a bit shoot and uh low and things like that.
So do not be unimpressed by what happens on YouTube,

(01:05:05):
because not a lot happens there. They actually started unsubscribing,
and they went back two and three years to start
giving us strikes on stuff that we got a I
think my favorite was we got a hard strike on
our channel. We're we weren't allowed to post for weeks,
lost a whole bunch of subscribers, like hundreds, like we
were hemorrhaging for medical misinformation. Related to COVID because we

(01:05:30):
read from the CDC website and they went back two
years to find that, and yeah, at this point what
was on the CDC website is misinformation because they got
it wrong. That was kind of the point. But yeah,
so they've they've been really and they've been copywriting everything.
I mean, I actually sang a couple lines from a
song and we got copyrighted for that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:52):
It's like, you can't copyright what's gotten.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
Happen, So don't don't be YouTube not the best place,
but we'll probably throw it up on Insta in the
celebration of Sam because I'm kind of learning my way
around there. But it does go up on locals, and
the audio version of it will go on all the
everywhere iHeartRadio, iTunes, the whole bit Spotify, and then the

(01:06:17):
video versions are of course on our website and Rumble
and bit Shoot. And it's funny because bit shoots where
we get the most love, like globally, and we have
people in India watching it there. So but we still
throw it out. I still put everything on YouTube just
out of spite.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
Well, one thing, I asked if your listeners have been
through all of that, and they still stuck around if
they follow Sam, I'd love it if they would respond
to some of the helicopter head popping Karen's out there
that get all upset about whatever we're doing.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
I'd love your followers one to follow up with some
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Okay, well, I'll tell you what, why don't Why don't
you look into the camera and give us the message
and I'll make sure I edit that in.

Speaker 3 (01:07:03):
Yeah, to tell the followers out there, there's quite a
few Karen's out there that are responding to our content
and telling us that it's way too dangerous and you know,
maybe we should our kids should be taken away. And
so I'd love it if you guys responded to them.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
I have an idea. Let's take all these helicopter moms
and have them man the drones so that they can
video video your sense something to give them a job,
give something to do.

Speaker 4 (01:07:32):
Yeah, it's guine pleasure.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
Yeah, Joe, this was a lot of fun, and we
of course want you back on when the new one comes,
we will celebrate with you and for your next endeavor,
we would love to hear more. We will selflessly or
selfishly what's the word I'm looking for.

Speaker 6 (01:07:48):
Will we will selflessly give you helplessly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
That's not the word I'm looking for. Well, we will
shamelessly plug your next endeavor. I have a feeling there's
going to be some books or something on the way
out of Sam. I see big things coming from that kiddo,
and I'm sure his brother's will be right in his footsteps.
So I'm pretty sure there'll be more for us to
shamelessly plug in the in the future. So are you

(01:08:15):
going to take some downtime after the new one is born?

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
Probably a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
I have another really big climb in October with Sylvan,
and so that's kind of like trying to get that
through that and then and then I'll have some downtime
till you know what.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Okay, when you take when you take one kid and
the other stays home, does the the kid at home
get antsy at all?

Speaker 2 (01:08:43):
Do you think, oh, yeah, and jealous? Yeah. I mean
that's part of parenting too.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
Yeah, sure, I'll have I'll have Sylvan my middle child,
for seven days, just me and him, one on one.
And when I took Sam up the matter when it
was ten days of just me and him, and it's like, man,
that that's the best stuff on earth.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Okay, well, hopefully they don't get so jealous that they
start shoving each other off mountains, because keep that. Let
let them duke it out on on on land.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
So yeah, there's all right.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Yeah, and with that many boys, I'm sure there's a
lot of a little bit. I just can't see the
praises of mom enough. Anne has got to be just
almost a god. And in the way she handles this,
so yeah, a.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
Lot of definitely hard on her, and and that that
shows to her level of like not only is she
supportive of it, she is encouraging of it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
She loves what she sees in the boys in it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
And I think, like, this couldn't be This would not
be possible if I had another wife, like if like,
if Anne was not on board, it would not the
kind of parenting media would not be possible.

Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
There's a lot to be said about that as.

Speaker 3 (01:09:56):
Well, and that your your partners, that your partner's not
their husband, kind of go out and be a man
with the kids.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
And we need to We need men. We need men,
So thank thank you, thank you for bringing some real
men into the world. And hopefully there's somebody out there
bringing up some real women and the two strong, strong
individuals will eventually meet and make more. So let's let's say.

Speaker 3 (01:10:21):
Yeah, yeah, oh they're out there.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
They're out there, they are out there, so all right,
well congratulations again. Uh we're old geezers. I raised my
brother and sister, so I did it all. I just
had no desire and he didn't find me until we
were both past the age of being able to do that.
So no actual children that were really really mine. But

(01:10:50):
my brother is seventeen years younger than me, so I
did everything from caligy baby dober changes all the way up.
And my mom actually we had a gallbladder attack while
she was having the cssarean to have him, because she
was thirty six and back then, you know, people that
old didn't really have kids, so she was in the

(01:11:11):
hospital for quite a while. I'm seventeen and I have
you know, my stepdad is pretty young. He's only six
years older than me, so he had just started a
job at Boeing and you don't mess with that. So
I actually had to take time off of school to
raise my ten year old sister, my newborn brother, and
once mom was out of the hospital and everything, then

(01:11:32):
I had to take care of her too, and once
all that was done, I was out of there. I'm done. Yeah,
so I don't have regrets that I would have been
an awesome mom. I would have been an awesome mom.
And to this day, I mean, Paul's a thirty some
odd year old man and he still calls me mom.

(01:11:52):
I mean Melanie so and Mom's been gone for a
long time now. So I feel like I paid my dues.
I didn't have no five boys, but I feel like
I paid my dues. And my sister I even sewed
her prom dress. I actually sewed her prom dress and
no small feet. She wanted the same dress as Cinderella

(01:12:14):
from the cartoon. It's like, you realize that it's a cartoon, right,
you can't actually make that dress. So I had to
hodgepodge like five different patterns together and then use that
god awful blue satin stuff that's really hard to sew
because it phrased, and then kind of make it up
as I went along. And so, yeah, I paid my dues.

Speaker 2 (01:12:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
So I do talk about my kids, but that's because
I teach, and every single one of my kids are
you know, I have kids that I've been tutoring since
they were in fourth grade and they're now in high school,
and I've seen the way they go and I know
I have just a tiny small part of their life,
but I hope that I influence it in such I'm
not afraid to talk about my faith. I will pray

(01:12:56):
with or for my kids anytime they need it. And
you know, sometimes they'll ask me questions. Sometimes the tutoring
session will be just talking about, you know, how a
kid got bullied and what to do or you know,
decisions they need to make or things like that, and
I'm there for I'll do it. And I don't know
what the parents say, but I'm always And that's something
I always let my kids know is you know, I'll

(01:13:18):
talk to your parents. You know I'm here because of
your parents. Your parents pay me to be here. But
I'm always on your side first, and I will go
to bat for you, and I don't trust me. I
will mama bear for you. I have called principles. I
have talked to teachers. You know, I've gotten my foot
and you know, stuck in my mouth a couple of times,
just being okay, what is going on here? Because you

(01:13:39):
know they're they're little liars. Some of them. They'll they'll
they'll tell some you know, doggated stories, but you got
to be able to discern that as well. I'm sure
your kids are absolutely one hundred percent honest all the
time and have never told you a whopper and have
never even considered the possibility of telling you an untrue.

(01:14:00):
I'm positive with that many boys in the house that
you trust everything they say at all times. I'm yeah,
you're almost crying. A little tear just drips down. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:12):
We deal with a lot of that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Yeah, yeah, and blaming each other. I'm sure that's that's
that's like a national sport when it comes to brothers
is oh he did it? Yeah, uh huh right.

Speaker 6 (01:14:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
It's awesome when they get along, but they often don't.

Speaker 1 (01:14:27):
What what is discipline like in this house, because I
mean there's nothing you can threaten these kids with it
they'd be afraid of.

Speaker 3 (01:14:33):
I mean, yeah, like, we we do paddle our boys,
but not often very It's it's it's like a that's
at the top of the threat ladder.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
Yeah, probably don't need to, yeah, so, but I will.

Speaker 3 (01:14:46):
I will say one thing, they're they're the most behaved
when we're climbing like it's like it's it's just something
kicks in. And it also entertains them in a way
that they they're not, you know, irritated to each other
in the same way they do at our house.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
I probably won't put any of the stuff about paddling
or anything like that. I'm probably put on the thing,
but I could just see a care and because supplementary material. Yeah,
now most of most of what we've just been talking
about is going to be offline. That are I just
don't even know anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:15:23):
It's hard to say.

Speaker 4 (01:15:24):
I think it depends on what street you live on anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:15:27):
I grew up in a different time. Probably not, I
don't know. In Canada, you can't even call them the
wrong pronoun they'll take them away, you know. And in
California if they want to yank body parts off and
you're like no, they will take your kids away. So
I'm sure paddling is off the table.

Speaker 6 (01:15:46):
That.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Don't even get me started in that. Now, you know
why we're not on YouTube. We talk about this stuff
and I don't hold back. Yeah, it's it's just really
refreshing to talk to a parent that actually parents the
kids because That's my biggest disdain right now is I

(01:16:08):
had a run in just the other day at the
grocery store.

Speaker 2 (01:16:10):
The kid just.

Speaker 1 (01:16:11):
Running around and slammed my card into me, called me
a name that I can't even repeat. And I went
to the mom. I said, did you know that your
son just is throwing things at people? And called me
this word? And she got all upset, how dare you
tell me how to parent? Blah blah. I'm like, honey,
I'm not telling you how, I'm telling you too parent

(01:16:33):
your child. And she wanted to take it out in
the bad. It's like, okay, well I can see where
this brat got his attitude. You know, they don't. They're
so self involved, they're so narcissistic. Why are you having
children because you cannot be narcissistic and be a parent.
You know, once you have a kid, game over. It's
not about you anymore. And not very many parents realize that.

(01:16:54):
They think, oh, I'm gonna have this kid, I'm gonna
get all this attention, and it's gonna be all about No.
Once you have a child, your life is now for
that child, and that's the way it should be. That's
the way it's meant to be. And if you're so
narcissistic that you cannot handle that, then, for God's sake,
don't breed, you know. And you know, I know you
get a lot of attention because you're in this, but

(01:17:15):
you're not getting it for the glory of Joe. You know,
hopefully you're getting it for the glory of God. But
I've noticed that you you know, it's Sam's face that
you put out there, it's Sam's work that you talk
about it. It's Sam's successes that you celebrate, not Joe's.
And I know you've had a lot, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
I'm glad you can see that, because that's another really
sore piece of this. People are saying you're just trying
to get famous off your kid, and I'm like, no,
I'm actually building a brand for each of my sons,
a brand that's going to last for them, you know.
And we're moving into an age where the most powerful
thing you can have as a brand you as.

Speaker 6 (01:17:52):
An absolutely very wise.

Speaker 3 (01:17:56):
And it's like it's like Sam's experience on social media
is going to be one hundred percent different than all
of his friends on social media.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
He is gonna when it's time for him to join
social media.

Speaker 3 (01:18:05):
He's gonna understand Oh yeah, this is where my sponsors
pay me.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
This is like, you know what I mean, It's different.

Speaker 3 (01:18:12):
I'm not gonna put up a bunch of like dumb
pictures of me partying on this on this app, you
know what I mean. Like, he's gonna have a completely
different philosophy and understanding and experience than the kids who
are just like trying to you know, chat with girls
on social media, like and that that's what we're developing.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
Like, it's like we see social media as.

Speaker 3 (01:18:32):
Part of part of the world that we have to
exist in, and we want our kids to appropriately be
on there, but like but also try to guard and
protect them at the same time. And so it's like
his very unique kind of thoughts because we also live
in a Christian culture that is like I can't believe
your kid is on social media, and I'm like, well,
he's actually kind of not.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
Yeah, yeah, he needs none. Up at three o'clock in
the morning talking to the guy you know in you know,
dming him. No, no, no, no, are you going to
keep them off of TikTok Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
We're actually going on TikTok Now.

Speaker 3 (01:19:06):
If I've gone back and forth, and I have a
I have an assistant that's going to run that account,
and it's just he's not going to know he's on
TikTok and yeah, so so I mean it's we have
to be on these platforms, like it's just that's where
the people are. You want to reach people, You guys
should be on TikTok like you want to.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
You just want to go on TikTok. I don't want
to be owned by China.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
You just don't want to be scrolling for hours on
dumb stuff like that's what.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
Your life like.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
Yeah, I have a friend who is addicted to it,
and she just sends me texts all day long, of
all the while we were in the Yeah. Literally just seriously,
She's just sent me a couple just now. And I
don't have TikTok. I don't even open them, so I
just yeah, and and so the other day I sent
her a link for a recipe, and you're going to
love this, she replies, Oh, I don't have Facebook. Yeah, okay,

(01:20:00):
I send you one week, like a month, and that's
your response. You send me like ninety seven. I've told
her I don't have TikTok and She's still said to
me that, yeah, I don't know. I don't even know
what I would put up there, like snippets of our show.
I'm not even sure how it works.

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
So maybe that's that's.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
The one place. Because everything I do everything else. I
do all of the all of our branding, all of
our graphics or audio, I do everything. He's just the talent.
He just shows up and looks pretty. That I do
all the stuff in the background, all the marketing and everything.
It's probably why we're not successful. I should probably take
you aside. Hey, you agreed way too easily.

Speaker 3 (01:20:36):
Well, nowadays, one hundred thousand followers and one of these
platforms is worth more than a PhD, at least for
the value of the what that means for the person's life. Like, yeah,
it's like and somehow there's a lot of people in
the church that just have not COMPREHENDI handed that.

Speaker 4 (01:20:52):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:20:52):
It's like, imagine where you guys would be if you
got out of high school you had hundreds of thousands
of followers, right.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
And for the right you know, I don't want to
be like the only fans route And I'm so sad
for these young girls that they think that that's the
way to do it. It's such a short lived, demeaning way.
It's just there's no amount of money that's worth that
to me, And I just it really breaks my heart
to see that becoming just mainstream, just being oh yeah,

(01:21:22):
and you're just supposed to accept it. That that breaks
my heart.

Speaker 2 (01:21:26):
So, yeah, how is that legal?

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
I just don't I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
That's that's legal.

Speaker 3 (01:21:32):
But they're gonna censor you for saying something it's controversial, Yeah,
that that should not be legal.

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
Yeah. Yeah, it's we've got our society's gotten their priorities
completely out of whack. And I'm really hoping that we're
going to see one last rally before the end days,
that you know, a little bit of human decency comes
back for a bit. But I don't want to wallow
too much. And I mean everybody's been saying we're in

(01:22:01):
the end day since you know, Jesus walked the earth,
But I don't know a lot of those signs are there.
I'm telling you.

Speaker 5 (01:22:11):
What our schedule, it's definitely on our lords.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
Yeah, so we just got to walk in faith. You know.
I was really thinking of that verse about thy word
as a lamp onto my feet. We just had a
story about that in our church service last week, and
I never understood what the significance of that verse was
because we think of a flashlight and we think like
a gajillion jigawatts lighting up the entire forest. But back then,

(01:22:40):
all they had were those little hand held oil lamps,
and you literally could only see one step in front
of you. And with me right now, the way our
life is going, I'm not only barefoot, but there's legos
being thrown in front of me. Is I'm trying to
walk with this one step thing. But you just expressed
that kind of faith in that night climb that you

(01:23:01):
had to do with your little boy. I mean, he's
still your child, and here you are on this this
sheer face and you've got that lamp that you can
only see the next step, and you're still doing it,
and you're I can't even imagine the type of faith.
And I mean, we talk about fear, and we talk
about being bold, and we talk about overcoming that and

(01:23:21):
being brave, but there is a tremendous amount of faith
that you would have had to have in that moment
and that little boy, you know, not just freezing and
and just say, dad, can we just sleep? Can we
just wait? Can we I mean, did he try to
do that at all? Or was he just like, yeah,
let's do this.

Speaker 3 (01:23:40):
He was definitely not let's just do this. He was
it was I could tell he was mustering that, you know.
But we you know when you talk about faith, well faith,
you have faith in your father, you know, And it's
like that's what he was learning.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
He was looking at me.

Speaker 3 (01:23:57):
He's looking at me saying, you know, are we are
we okay, gonna be okay. It same, We're gonna be okay.
It's gonna be cold, it's gonna be hard, and it's
gonna be scary.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
But you got this.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):
Buddy, like like keep moving. We got to get to camp.
We're not that far away, Like it's a little bit more.

Speaker 4 (01:24:11):
Just push.

Speaker 3 (01:24:11):
And when we got to camp, we opened up the
porta ledge. Inslee didn't even get in the sleep bag.

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
He's asleep. I had to like stuff him in the
sleep bag.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
That's sweet. Yeah, it's really sweet. Well that's a good
place to leave folks, is you know, look to your father,
and we have our earthly father, and we have our
heavenly father and hopefully he sees one in your eyes
and he sees I'm sure you see one in his eyes.
So good parenting. I appreciate you coming on and thank

(01:24:43):
you so much for sharing some intimention moments with us
about your boys, and I hope to hear a lot
more from you. You are welcome back on our show
any old time, and like I said, we will shameless
sleep plug your next endeavor. Congratulations on the new baby
coming up in December. Mary chris Us, Oh yeah yeah
so we uh like I said, we'll have all these

(01:25:04):
links and everything and video for everybody to see and
check him out on insta at Samuel Adventure Adventure Yes
almost said danger, semi danger. He's a badge Samuel Adventure.
And I guess he'll be on TikTok too soon, so
look for him there. All right, Well, thank you so much,

(01:25:26):
and you have an amazing rest of your weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
All right later, all right bye Wow

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