January 20, 2025 • 27 mins
Bro. Andrew “Doc” Berry is a renowned psychologist and subject matter expert on the impact of PTSD on service members. On January 23, Doc will be sharing his findings in an open presentation hosted by the Rensselaer County Bureau of Public Safety at Hudson Valley Community College (Troy, NY).
Show notes:
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/craftsmen-online-podcast--4822031/support.
Show notes:
- Learn more about Bro. Andrew "Doc" Berry's PTSD presentation at HVCC in Troy, New York
- Join us on Patreon. Start your FREE seven day trial to the Craftsmen Online Podcast and get instant access to our bonus content! Whether it's a one time donation or you become a Patreon Subscriber, we appreciate your support.
- Follow the Craftsmen Online Podcast on Spotify.
- Subscribe to the Craftsmen Online Podcast on Apple Podcasts.
- Follow Craftsmen Online on YouTube, hit subscribe and get notified the next time we go LIVE with a podcast recording!
- Yes, we're on Tik Tok and Instagram.
- Visit the Craftsmen Online website to learn more about our next Reading Room event, New York Masonic History and our Masonic Education blog!
- Get our latest announcements and important updates in your inbox with the Craftsmen Online Newsletter.
- Email the host, RW Michael Arce! Yes, we will read your email and may even reach out to be a guest on a future episode.
- Don't forget to use the promo code CRAFTSMEN to receive free shipping with your first order from Bricks Masons!
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/craftsmen-online-podcast--4822031/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Commons. Opinions and views shared during this program are
of those individual Freemasons and do not reflect the official
position of a Grand Lodge, concordant Body, a Pendant Body,
a Masonic authority, or Craftsman Online dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey, welcome back to the Craftsman Online Podcast, the only
Masonic podcast endorsed by the Grand Lodge of New York.
I am your host stright worship of Brother Michael Arsa
into season number five, Episode two. I promise I'll stop
counting after a while. I just still love this new
time of the year. We're going to get into a
pretty heavy hitting episode on this one is we'll be
unmasking PTSD. So whether you've ever had a service member
(00:49):
that's been a part of your family or an emergency
first responder who has proudly served your community, maybe as
a close family member or friend, this episode is going
to resonate with you, especially with our guest brother Andrew
doc Berry, who is a renowned psychologist and subject matter
expert on PTSD. He's also a self described advocate and
coming up on January twenty third, just ten days away,
(01:12):
he'll be presenting his findings at Hudson Valley Community College
in Troy, New York. If you'd like more info on
how to attend that event, just click on the show
notes for this episode, Brother Doc. Good to see again
on the Craftsman Online podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Good be here, glad to say it.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Good to see you. As we get started here in
twenty twenty five. You have a big event that's coming
up in just a few weeks on January twenty third.
Before we get to that presentation and all of the
research and the meaningful work that you've done into it,
could you tell us a little bit about your I
guess passion into PTSD, how this has become more than
just a project for you. What's your personal connection with
(01:50):
this silent struggle as you call it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
By the way, the thing I'm doing on January twenty third,
that's preferred responders as opposed to events, But the overlap
in symptomologies is very striking. When I was a diagnostician
and a state runs super Max out in Kansas, it
was my first job out of grad school, and it
was my job to interview an inmate, check his rap sheet,
(02:13):
suggest programs, check psychometric testing, and send him on his way.
It has nothing to do with therapy. It was just
treat him in streatom. Even there's no treating this one
Vietnam combat guy came in and what he gave me
in one sentence, one sentence. One of my standard questions
(02:34):
is who do you miss the most? And ninety nine
times out of one hundred, they'll tell me about their
best friend, a brother on the battlefield. I learned about
something called the pink mist. And if anybody doesn't know
what the pink mist is, it's what happens when blood
vapor rises graphic. It's awful, it's visceral, and it's war.
(03:00):
Getting back to this guy, who do you miss the most?
The color surged to this guy's face. The veins were
popping out of his forehead and his neck. He burst
into tears and he half shouted at me. Doc. He says, I,
miss me, I used to be a nice guy. I
(03:22):
have to say that again. It must register with anybody
who's listening to this. I miss me, I used to
be a nice guy. And he drank his way out
of his own life. Everything that landed him in federal
prison was alcohol related, dwidwy, domestic violence, the whole thing.
Married three times. If I recall correctly, nobody would speak
(03:45):
to him. That's what I mean when I say he
drank his way out of his own life. So what
he was telling me on that day, I will now
tell all of you. He went into the services person
A and he out to the other side of his
service as person B. He had no idea who he
(04:07):
even was anymore. He had no idea what matters. He
had no idea where where his old self went, if
there was anything left of it at all. Now, what
a lot of people don't know about post traumatic stress.
It goes far beyond terrible memories, sleep loss, anxiety, depression,
concentration problems, hypervigilance. What a lot of people don't realize,
(04:31):
and we've learned this thanks to very sophisticated neuroimaging techniques
over the past ten twenty years, is that the chemistry
and physiology of the central nervous changes. Right in Planter English,
than that the brain changes the physiology and the biochemistry.
This guy, I would wager I'd better paycheck. He went
(04:54):
into the services person A with his brain in that
stat and came out as person B. Folks, brothers, His
brain changed. Now, what was I saying a few minutes
ago about I missed me. I used to be a
nice guy. It was a shift of personality person aid
(05:18):
person B and that that statement has fueled me on,
along with the support of every of so many vets
and first responders I have been privileged to know and
meet and work with and have as my patients start
of my life. I have no idea why they choose
(05:39):
me for this. I never saw combat. I'm very open
about that. But they all take one look at me
and say, this is the guy we want, we want
to be a voice for us, and it's enormously humbling.
My nickname is Doc, and they started calling me Doc.
Over twenty years ago. They started calling me that. I
never knew what to make of it. So I asked
(06:00):
a retired gun resergeant of Marines that I knew at
the time, a senior enlisted guy, what does it mean
when they started calling you Doc? And he looked surprised.
He said, they're calling you that, and I said, yeah,
you said, listen, that is a nickname, a profound trust.
That means they respect the hell out of you, they
feel safe around you, and it means they consider you
(06:24):
as one of them. And there is no higher praise.
At the beginning of this before we started recording, I
told you I treasured my nickname in some ways more
than a given name. That's the kind of relationship I'm
privileged to have with these men and women.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So relationships are important to you, and I think it's
really special. In your professional life, you've talked a lot
about that. We run a lot of parallels in personal life.
My grandfather in World War Two, my dad lucky enough
not to have his number called for Vietnam, but talked
a lot about the military. My uncle Steve served proudly
for our country during that time. I was lucky. I'm
(07:01):
sure like you, my generation kind of got to skip
that war gap a little bit. Although I have several
friends now that had served in the Middle East conflicts
that are now coming back with the visible and physical
but yet also mental battle scars. We talk about that
professionally on the outside. I'm curious as a Freemason, when
(07:21):
you get into a lodge and we both share Mount
Vernon number three as a lodge that we are both
members of in the old seventeenth District in Albany, New York,
what is it like when you actually get to talk
to these brothers now who are suffering or are experienced
some of the difficulties that come with this. And you
are Doc as we know you in the old seventeenth
(07:43):
you're Doc Berry.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
It's a hard sell, and they have to be around
me to build up a sense of trust. When people
think of a psychologist, they think of somebody who's like
maybe five p two inches tall, about that big around,
who's built like a catheter, a pencil, nick geek, and
a suit and tie. Just talking in terms of symptomology.
(08:07):
All of the ten dollar words out of the DSM
like they're going for ten here.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
They're not picturing a starting offensive lineman for the New
York Giants, right.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I am six about just a little less than six
and a half feet tall, three hundred change. I eclipse
most rooms when I walk in. I have my own
ZIP code, et cetera, and I have to have all
my clothing made by Omar the tent maker. Then I
wander in and I don't use the ten dollar words.
I often will. I slip into profanity periodically when they
(08:39):
start coming to me. I do what I can to
get resources for them in their communities, to point them
in the direction of my colleagues as needed, if they're
ready for it. You all have no idea how close
this monster is. It is on the doorstep of this
(09:02):
fraternity that we love so much. I get calls anonymously
from our brothers asking for help. They don't want to
bring it up in the lodge. They don't want to
be that guy or that brother, which brings me to
another point. As far as veterans and first responders are trained,
(09:24):
all right, and I did four and a half five
years volunteer firefighting and an EMT, so I can say
the way we were trained to do these jobs is
to think of everybody else around us absolutely, absolutely first,
and ourselves absolutely last, if at all, because that's a
sign of weakness. That is the stigma, that is the
(09:48):
mental health stigma. You don't want to be that guy
who asks for help because it goes against everything we
were trained to do. When guys and gals reach out
to me, listen to me on this one, brothers, and
write it in stone, etch it and stone. It's the
hardest thing they have ever done in their lives, the
(10:10):
hardest things they have ever done in their lives. And
one of the things that I've tried to do in
the fraternity is to take freemasonry out of the lodge
and make it walk around out on the street. And
when we are not calling up our brothers, the ones
we know who have served, the ones we know who
(10:32):
are first responders, and checking in on them if they
disappear for a while, we are falling short on our obligation.
And this is one of the things that shortens my
cable toe. And I will freely admit this out loud
on the square and on the level. I'm not in
lodge or doing stuff with Masons in lodge as much
(10:53):
as I should be. Because there's only ninety eight hours
in the day. I am spending so much time speaking, advocating,
talking guys out of trees over the phone. It it
keeps me away. That's why you don't see me that much.
So that is what I mean when I said when
I said a few minutes ago, this monster is on
(11:15):
our lower step. It's a lot closer than anybody wants
to talk about.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Hello, listeners, tune in from the next Craftsman Online Reading Room,
where we'll be explaining the first thirty pages of the
craft Perfected and Actualizing our Craft with special guest author
brother John S.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Nage.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
To get your copy of the reading material and submit
questions in advance, visit craftsman online dot com today.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Okay, so let's set the level for those listening that
might not be familiar to a deeper sense of what
(12:17):
the letters PTSD mean. I think back in our grandfather's
generation they use the term shell shocked. It's got a
greater meaning. So can you educate us and to those
listening on really what is PTSD and what should we
be looking out for as those that care.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Post traumatic stress to sort of, you're absolutely right. World
War One it was called shell shock, and as the
late great George Carlin pointed out, simple honest, direct language,
shell shock almost sounds like the gun stunts themselves. And
then it became i think during World War Two he
points out, post operational exhaustion, and then it became post
(12:57):
traumatic stress. Sort of we're still at for Sylva or
whatever it is. Now we've added a hyphen and what
that has done to this terrible condition is dehumanize it.
It's buried under garbin. Post traumatic stress disorder is the
hallmark of it is when somebody, when their very life
(13:19):
is threatened. That's the hallmark of it. Another layer of
by the way, if you think about that definition, that
doesn't mean people who are just being shot at. That
means people in car accidents, motorcycle accident. Another layer of
it is when you see when you see the human
(13:39):
body mangled, bloodied. Now, when you see that sort of thing,
you're not under Your own person is not under threat. However,
when you see enough of it, you become numb to it.
Emotional lumbing is part of PTSD. Or you see enough
of that stuff and then you see somebody, somebody killed
(14:01):
right in front of you, who reminds you of a
person he wants to maybe reminds you of your own kids.
That's another layer of it. Now what I'm about to
say is just speaking only for myself. Let's say somebody
has arely seriously wasting disease like a cancer or something
like that, and you know you have this ticking time
(14:25):
bomb inside. You know it's going to kill you, okay,
and there's very little you can do about it. That
could be thought of as another layer of it. So
that's the if you will, the hallmark, the centerpiece of
post traumatic stress disorder. It's so hard to talk about
this sort of thing. Let me tell you what. Because
(14:45):
the original trauma was tough enough to deal with and survive,
so one would think, well, talking about it shouldn't be
that difficult. Well, here's why it is difficult. Because there
is a mile wide difference between feeling feelings, feeling the
emotions of these terrible occurrencies, these terrible memories. There's a
(15:08):
mild wide difference between all that and talking about them.
Because when you take that stuff inside here and put
it into words, it makes it all the more real. Yes,
this really happened, and that is why so many guys
go through lengthy periods of their lives. Sometimes they spend
(15:30):
their entire lives not talking about it, and the price
they pay is purgatorial.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
That's the thing where I feel like so many people
that want to do good, sometimes we actually do bad.
We know that somebody that's struggling, how do we help
them and connect with somebody like you that can offer
real professional support and help.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
That person may not be ready to come see somebody
like me. And so so many times I have heard
people say not I never know what to do, I
never know what to say. So I'm going to give
you a secret of the universe. Here, the person who
(16:11):
is coming to you, chances are nothing less than nine
months pregnant out to hear. That person knows what your
skill set is already, So chances you really don't have
to do much of anything because they know what your
skill set is. To get to the second point, I
never know what to say, Well, here's the secret of
(16:32):
the universe. You don't really have to say that much.
All you have to do is be a very good listener.
And what is what comprises being a good listener? I
hear you crying. Take your cell phone, turn it off,
turn it over, put it to one side, and I'm
(16:52):
going to look right into my version of the camera
right now to illustrate the point. You look them in
the eye, you'll be with them. You don't flinch. Just
stay with them. You listen to them, because the more
you're listening and less you're talking, the more you are
(17:15):
validating that person's feelings. And if you're really listening, you'll
hear them de escalating, de escalating, de escalating. Now, what
was I saying a few minutes ago? You open your
mouth and the pain comes out. What you might do
for the further the conversation goes is you could say
(17:37):
something like, how can I be of most help to
you right now? Or do you need me to just
sit here and stay with you and listen to you?
And that right there, brothers goes a lone.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
To that point, what's kind of off limits or what
things can we talk about when this moment starts to happen,
This opening, this awakening.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Depends on the most responsible thing I can tell you
is it depends on the individual who's coming to you.
Chances are what they are going through a personal hell,
and they will tell you as much as they can tolerate.
And all you can do really is listen. Now, if
you really think the person coming to you is on
the verge of doing themselves in even though it sucks,
(18:27):
and if you have to dialnline one one on them,
do it. I'd rather have that person pissed as hell
at you and alive than dead. Okay, Uh, there's there's
no real you know, most of it folks here, it's
it's it's the great secret. Most of it is just
listening and being emotionally present. That's the best answer I
(18:51):
can give you.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
That's a good answer. Can you give us some insight
into kind of overall what you're going to be sharing
with folks at your talk. And all right, what I.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Do when I do either of these talks, the Old
Chief talk or the old Vepkin talk, And I've got
stuff on YouTube videos, but it's much better in person. Okay.
All I do really is, as I told you before
we started this, I'm a storyteller. By this, I mean,
(19:22):
any smuck and look up the symptomology the DSM five
filt that's loaded up with Psychobabbel and Jarkin and read
off that list of symptoms and you pull that shit,
and I'm here to tell you you're going to have
everybody asleep inside of two minutes. And it's my job
(19:43):
to wake people up, and I'm very good at it.
And that means I take all of the symptoms, all
of the symptoms, and I tell I talk about each
symptom in story form. Now, what I'm doing is I'm
holding a gigantic mirror up to whoever's in the studio audience.
(20:04):
I am telling these people. I am telling these men
and women about themselves. I am introducing them to themselves.
And the stories that I tell are very real, They're
about real people. The stories that I tell are de identified.
Nobody knows who I'm talking about, but the stories themselves
(20:26):
are universal because those are the same stories that the
people in the audience themselves could be talking about. This
is something they have all been through. At the end
if the hell of a thing to be in a
room full of either hardened combat veterans or hardened for
responders of any denomination, and most of them their heads
are bowed and they're either in tears or pretty close
(20:48):
to it. That's how I know I'm breaking through that wall.
I'm breaking through those defenses and at the end of
which they'll come up to me. I'm sort of a
an advocate, if you will. For posts, I'm the PTSD guy.
I'm a voice for these men and women. And what
(21:09):
also happens when I do this sort of thing live
is not only did the guys and gals who suffer
from this come up and thank me, but the wives
and the kids, or the husbands and the kids come
up and say, I understand my husband, or I understand
my dad or my mom my wife so much better now.
What the eventual goal here is to promote disclosure disclosure
(21:33):
breeds disclosure, which means if I tell a story, I'm
going to free somebody up in the studio audience or
in a live audience to say, hey, when am I
going to identify with that? I'm going to give that
person just a pinch of courage to tell their story.
And then we get a dialogue going, and the big
(21:54):
white elephant in the room, a PTSD and stigma starts
to get small. That's smaller. The more we talk about it,
the more we normalize it and take the fear out
of it.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Love this time of the year, because we're still following
those New Year's resolutions and they can be made good.
At Bricksmasons dot com. You can make twenty twenty five
that year that you get what you've always wanted, something personalized,
whether it's a nice new Masonic apron for you to
wear it to lodge, maybe a personalized Masonic ring the
evilways wanted, or that one item that's truly one of
(22:35):
a kind a Masonic decanter, sets special shoes to wear
to lodge, or just a hoodie to walk around when
you're doing shopping on the weekends. Get what you've always
wanted this year at Bricksmasons dot com. Visit Bricksmasons dot
Com and explore their extensive catalog. Elevate your Masonic experience
with style and substance plus Craftsman Online podcast listeners use
(22:59):
promo code Craftsman That's cr ftsme e n at checkout
to enjoy free shipping with your first order. I want
(23:25):
to talk a little bit about the event that's coming
up on January twenty third for our listener that is
in the capital region that we will be able to
see you in Rensseler County. How do we go about
being a part of this event?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Okay, it's going to be at Hudson Valley Community College.
Admission is free, but there is sort of a sign
up sheet, and bring your buddy, bring your brothers, bring
your sisters, anybody who thinks they're going to benefit from it.
And what you're going to see is all six and
a half feet of yours truly trapesing around on the stage,
baseball cap and suspenders, looking like Santa Claus blood ugly
(23:57):
pissed off kid brother. And I'm going to tell one
story after another post traumatic stress, and I will make
it understandable and I will also underscore in the flags
that we have of the thin colored line, the thin
blue line within red line, yellow line, gray line, white line,
and green line. All of those thin colored lines are
(24:23):
getting thinner and thinner by the day, to the point
where our communities are no longer as safe as they
once were, and I believe our nation is no longer
as safe as it once was. I am talking about
the mental health aspect of a threat to what I
(24:44):
viewed to be a threat to national security. And please
don't take that as me being political. A lot of
patriotic flag waving, nothing like that. I don't glorify war,
because the guys who have fought it tell me what
it's like to and to deal with it. But what
I am trying to bring awareness to is the size
(25:05):
of this problem that nobody wants to talk about, and
how we as a nation are miserably failing our veterans
and our first responders. They come to us on these
guys come to us on our worst days. They pay
an enormous emotional price for that, and then they vanish.
(25:26):
And what I'm trying to view with at least the
mental health end of it. I don't do politics, I
don't do sociology, I don't do any of that stuff.
I'm just trying to talk about the severely maimed mental
health component of this problem and why we've got to
thicken up those colored lines and restore security to our
(25:49):
communities and to the country.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Brother Andrew doc Berry, thirty second degree, It's such a
pleasure to have you on. The last time you joined
us was an early twenty twenty one as you try
to help heal our mindset to get back to lodge
in a post COVID pangdemic, and here you are talking
about PTSD, a very real thing and how we can
all be responsible and be a part of helping those
that need the help that they need to get. Thank
(26:12):
you so much for coming on the Craftsman Online podcast.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Glad to be here, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Big thanks to our guest this week, Brother Andrew doc Berry.
I look forward to teaming up with him again in
May for a special mental health awareness podcast episode and
speaking about coming up. I hope to see you next
weekend at the first ever New York Masonic Con at
the Grand Lodge of New York in beautiful New York City.
My tummy is already getting full just thinking about the
(26:41):
Mariner's Lodge Beefsteak Banquet on Friday nights and then our
Masonicon the next day, and I hope to see you
at that seventeen eighty one Society mixer afterwards. This is
right worship for Brother Michael Arsa. I always enjoy our
time together. Until next time, Let peace and harmony prevail
The Commons. Opinions and views shared during this program are
of those individual Freemasons and do not reflect the official
position of a Grand Lodge, concordant Body, a Pendant Body,
a Masonic authority, or Craftsman Online dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Hey, welcome back to the Craftsman Online Podcast, the only
Masonic podcast endorsed by the Grand Lodge of New York.
I am your host stright worship of Brother Michael Arsa
into season number five, Episode two. I promise I'll stop
counting after a while. I just still love this new
time of the year. We're going to get into a
pretty heavy hitting episode on this one is we'll be
unmasking PTSD. So whether you've ever had a service member
(00:49):
that's been a part of your family or an emergency
first responder who has proudly served your community, maybe as
a close family member or friend, this episode is going
to resonate with you, especially with our guest brother Andrew
doc Berry, who is a renowned psychologist and subject matter
expert on PTSD. He's also a self described advocate and
coming up on January twenty third, just ten days away,
(01:12):
he'll be presenting his findings at Hudson Valley Community College
in Troy, New York. If you'd like more info on
how to attend that event, just click on the show
notes for this episode, Brother Doc. Good to see again
on the Craftsman Online podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Good be here, glad to say it.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Good to see you. As we get started here in
twenty twenty five. You have a big event that's coming
up in just a few weeks on January twenty third.
Before we get to that presentation and all of the
research and the meaningful work that you've done into it,
could you tell us a little bit about your I
guess passion into PTSD, how this has become more than
just a project for you. What's your personal connection with
(01:50):
this silent struggle as you call it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
By the way, the thing I'm doing on January twenty third,
that's preferred responders as opposed to events, But the overlap
in symptomologies is very striking. When I was a diagnostician
and a state runs super Max out in Kansas, it
was my first job out of grad school, and it
was my job to interview an inmate, check his rap sheet,
(02:13):
suggest programs, check psychometric testing, and send him on his way.
It has nothing to do with therapy. It was just
treat him in streatom. Even there's no treating this one
Vietnam combat guy came in and what he gave me
in one sentence, one sentence. One of my standard questions
(02:34):
is who do you miss the most? And ninety nine
times out of one hundred, they'll tell me about their
best friend, a brother on the battlefield. I learned about
something called the pink mist. And if anybody doesn't know
what the pink mist is, it's what happens when blood
vapor rises graphic. It's awful, it's visceral, and it's war.
(03:00):
Getting back to this guy, who do you miss the most?
The color surged to this guy's face. The veins were
popping out of his forehead and his neck. He burst
into tears and he half shouted at me. Doc. He says, I,
miss me, I used to be a nice guy. I
(03:22):
have to say that again. It must register with anybody
who's listening to this. I miss me, I used to
be a nice guy. And he drank his way out
of his own life. Everything that landed him in federal
prison was alcohol related, dwidwy, domestic violence, the whole thing.
Married three times. If I recall correctly, nobody would speak
(03:45):
to him. That's what I mean when I say he
drank his way out of his own life. So what
he was telling me on that day, I will now
tell all of you. He went into the services person
A and he out to the other side of his
service as person B. He had no idea who he
(04:07):
even was anymore. He had no idea what matters. He
had no idea where where his old self went, if
there was anything left of it at all. Now, what
a lot of people don't know about post traumatic stress.
It goes far beyond terrible memories, sleep loss, anxiety, depression,
concentration problems, hypervigilance. What a lot of people don't realize,
(04:31):
and we've learned this thanks to very sophisticated neuroimaging techniques
over the past ten twenty years, is that the chemistry
and physiology of the central nervous changes. Right in Planter English,
than that the brain changes the physiology and the biochemistry.
This guy, I would wager I'd better paycheck. He went
(04:54):
into the services person A with his brain in that
stat and came out as person B. Folks, brothers, His
brain changed. Now, what was I saying a few minutes
ago about I missed me. I used to be a
nice guy. It was a shift of personality person aid
(05:18):
person B and that that statement has fueled me on,
along with the support of every of so many vets
and first responders I have been privileged to know and
meet and work with and have as my patients start
of my life. I have no idea why they choose
(05:39):
me for this. I never saw combat. I'm very open
about that. But they all take one look at me
and say, this is the guy we want, we want
to be a voice for us, and it's enormously humbling.
My nickname is Doc, and they started calling me Doc.
Over twenty years ago. They started calling me that. I
never knew what to make of it. So I asked
(06:00):
a retired gun resergeant of Marines that I knew at
the time, a senior enlisted guy, what does it mean
when they started calling you Doc? And he looked surprised.
He said, they're calling you that, and I said, yeah,
you said, listen, that is a nickname, a profound trust.
That means they respect the hell out of you, they
feel safe around you, and it means they consider you
(06:24):
as one of them. And there is no higher praise.
At the beginning of this before we started recording, I
told you I treasured my nickname in some ways more
than a given name. That's the kind of relationship I'm
privileged to have with these men and women.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
So relationships are important to you, and I think it's
really special. In your professional life, you've talked a lot
about that. We run a lot of parallels in personal life.
My grandfather in World War Two, my dad lucky enough
not to have his number called for Vietnam, but talked
a lot about the military. My uncle Steve served proudly
for our country during that time. I was lucky. I'm
(07:01):
sure like you, my generation kind of got to skip
that war gap a little bit. Although I have several
friends now that had served in the Middle East conflicts
that are now coming back with the visible and physical
but yet also mental battle scars. We talk about that
professionally on the outside. I'm curious as a Freemason, when
(07:21):
you get into a lodge and we both share Mount
Vernon number three as a lodge that we are both
members of in the old seventeenth District in Albany, New York,
what is it like when you actually get to talk
to these brothers now who are suffering or are experienced
some of the difficulties that come with this. And you
are Doc as we know you in the old seventeenth
(07:43):
you're Doc Berry.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
It's a hard sell, and they have to be around
me to build up a sense of trust. When people
think of a psychologist, they think of somebody who's like
maybe five p two inches tall, about that big around,
who's built like a catheter, a pencil, nick geek, and
a suit and tie. Just talking in terms of symptomology.
(08:07):
All of the ten dollar words out of the DSM
like they're going for ten here.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
They're not picturing a starting offensive lineman for the New
York Giants, right.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
I am six about just a little less than six
and a half feet tall, three hundred change. I eclipse
most rooms when I walk in. I have my own
ZIP code, et cetera, and I have to have all
my clothing made by Omar the tent maker. Then I
wander in and I don't use the ten dollar words.
I often will. I slip into profanity periodically when they
(08:39):
start coming to me. I do what I can to
get resources for them in their communities, to point them
in the direction of my colleagues as needed, if they're
ready for it. You all have no idea how close
this monster is. It is on the doorstep of this
(09:02):
fraternity that we love so much. I get calls anonymously
from our brothers asking for help. They don't want to
bring it up in the lodge. They don't want to
be that guy or that brother, which brings me to
another point. As far as veterans and first responders are trained,
(09:24):
all right, and I did four and a half five
years volunteer firefighting and an EMT, so I can say
the way we were trained to do these jobs is
to think of everybody else around us absolutely, absolutely first,
and ourselves absolutely last, if at all, because that's a
sign of weakness. That is the stigma, that is the
(09:48):
mental health stigma. You don't want to be that guy
who asks for help because it goes against everything we
were trained to do. When guys and gals reach out
to me, listen to me on this one, brothers, and
write it in stone, etch it and stone. It's the
hardest thing they have ever done in their lives, the
(10:10):
hardest things they have ever done in their lives. And
one of the things that I've tried to do in
the fraternity is to take freemasonry out of the lodge
and make it walk around out on the street. And
when we are not calling up our brothers, the ones
we know who have served, the ones we know who
(10:32):
are first responders, and checking in on them if they
disappear for a while, we are falling short on our obligation.
And this is one of the things that shortens my
cable toe. And I will freely admit this out loud
on the square and on the level. I'm not in
lodge or doing stuff with Masons in lodge as much
(10:53):
as I should be. Because there's only ninety eight hours
in the day. I am spending so much time speaking, advocating,
talking guys out of trees over the phone. It it
keeps me away. That's why you don't see me that much.
So that is what I mean when I said when
I said a few minutes ago, this monster is on
(11:15):
our lower step. It's a lot closer than anybody wants
to talk about.
Speaker 4 (11:30):
Hello, listeners, tune in from the next Craftsman Online Reading Room,
where we'll be explaining the first thirty pages of the
craft Perfected and Actualizing our Craft with special guest author
brother John S.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Nage.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
To get your copy of the reading material and submit
questions in advance, visit craftsman online dot com today.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Okay, so let's set the level for those listening that
might not be familiar to a deeper sense of what
(12:17):
the letters PTSD mean. I think back in our grandfather's
generation they use the term shell shocked. It's got a
greater meaning. So can you educate us and to those
listening on really what is PTSD and what should we
be looking out for as those that care.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Post traumatic stress to sort of, you're absolutely right. World
War One it was called shell shock, and as the
late great George Carlin pointed out, simple honest, direct language,
shell shock almost sounds like the gun stunts themselves. And
then it became i think during World War Two he
points out, post operational exhaustion, and then it became post
(12:57):
traumatic stress. Sort of we're still at for Sylva or
whatever it is. Now we've added a hyphen and what
that has done to this terrible condition is dehumanize it.
It's buried under garbin. Post traumatic stress disorder is the
hallmark of it is when somebody, when their very life
(13:19):
is threatened. That's the hallmark of it. Another layer of
by the way, if you think about that definition, that
doesn't mean people who are just being shot at. That
means people in car accidents, motorcycle accident. Another layer of
it is when you see when you see the human
(13:39):
body mangled, bloodied. Now, when you see that sort of thing,
you're not under Your own person is not under threat. However,
when you see enough of it, you become numb to it.
Emotional lumbing is part of PTSD. Or you see enough
of that stuff and then you see somebody, somebody killed
(14:01):
right in front of you, who reminds you of a
person he wants to maybe reminds you of your own kids.
That's another layer of it. Now what I'm about to
say is just speaking only for myself. Let's say somebody
has arely seriously wasting disease like a cancer or something
like that, and you know you have this ticking time
(14:25):
bomb inside. You know it's going to kill you, okay,
and there's very little you can do about it. That
could be thought of as another layer of it. So
that's the if you will, the hallmark, the centerpiece of
post traumatic stress disorder. It's so hard to talk about
this sort of thing. Let me tell you what. Because
(14:45):
the original trauma was tough enough to deal with and survive,
so one would think, well, talking about it shouldn't be
that difficult. Well, here's why it is difficult. Because there
is a mile wide difference between feeling feelings, feeling the
emotions of these terrible occurrencies, these terrible memories. There's a
(15:08):
mild wide difference between all that and talking about them.
Because when you take that stuff inside here and put
it into words, it makes it all the more real. Yes,
this really happened, and that is why so many guys
go through lengthy periods of their lives. Sometimes they spend
(15:30):
their entire lives not talking about it, and the price
they pay is purgatorial.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
That's the thing where I feel like so many people
that want to do good, sometimes we actually do bad.
We know that somebody that's struggling, how do we help
them and connect with somebody like you that can offer
real professional support and help.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
That person may not be ready to come see somebody
like me. And so so many times I have heard
people say not I never know what to do, I
never know what to say. So I'm going to give
you a secret of the universe. Here, the person who
(16:11):
is coming to you, chances are nothing less than nine
months pregnant out to hear. That person knows what your
skill set is already, So chances you really don't have
to do much of anything because they know what your
skill set is. To get to the second point, I
never know what to say, Well, here's the secret of
(16:32):
the universe. You don't really have to say that much.
All you have to do is be a very good listener.
And what is what comprises being a good listener? I
hear you crying. Take your cell phone, turn it off,
turn it over, put it to one side, and I'm
(16:52):
going to look right into my version of the camera
right now to illustrate the point. You look them in
the eye, you'll be with them. You don't flinch. Just
stay with them. You listen to them, because the more
you're listening and less you're talking, the more you are
(17:15):
validating that person's feelings. And if you're really listening, you'll
hear them de escalating, de escalating, de escalating. Now, what
was I saying a few minutes ago? You open your
mouth and the pain comes out. What you might do
for the further the conversation goes is you could say
(17:37):
something like, how can I be of most help to
you right now? Or do you need me to just
sit here and stay with you and listen to you?
And that right there, brothers goes a lone.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
To that point, what's kind of off limits or what
things can we talk about when this moment starts to happen,
This opening, this awakening.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Depends on the most responsible thing I can tell you
is it depends on the individual who's coming to you.
Chances are what they are going through a personal hell,
and they will tell you as much as they can tolerate.
And all you can do really is listen. Now, if
you really think the person coming to you is on
the verge of doing themselves in even though it sucks,
(18:27):
and if you have to dialnline one one on them,
do it. I'd rather have that person pissed as hell
at you and alive than dead. Okay, Uh, there's there's
no real you know, most of it folks here, it's
it's it's the great secret. Most of it is just
listening and being emotionally present. That's the best answer I
(18:51):
can give you.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
That's a good answer. Can you give us some insight
into kind of overall what you're going to be sharing
with folks at your talk. And all right, what I.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Do when I do either of these talks, the Old
Chief talk or the old Vepkin talk, And I've got
stuff on YouTube videos, but it's much better in person. Okay.
All I do really is, as I told you before
we started this, I'm a storyteller. By this, I mean,
(19:22):
any smuck and look up the symptomology the DSM five
filt that's loaded up with Psychobabbel and Jarkin and read
off that list of symptoms and you pull that shit,
and I'm here to tell you you're going to have
everybody asleep inside of two minutes. And it's my job
(19:43):
to wake people up, and I'm very good at it.
And that means I take all of the symptoms, all
of the symptoms, and I tell I talk about each
symptom in story form. Now, what I'm doing is I'm
holding a gigantic mirror up to whoever's in the studio audience.
(20:04):
I am telling these people. I am telling these men
and women about themselves. I am introducing them to themselves.
And the stories that I tell are very real, They're
about real people. The stories that I tell are de identified.
Nobody knows who I'm talking about, but the stories themselves
(20:26):
are universal because those are the same stories that the
people in the audience themselves could be talking about. This
is something they have all been through. At the end
if the hell of a thing to be in a
room full of either hardened combat veterans or hardened for
responders of any denomination, and most of them their heads
are bowed and they're either in tears or pretty close
(20:48):
to it. That's how I know I'm breaking through that wall.
I'm breaking through those defenses and at the end of
which they'll come up to me. I'm sort of a
an advocate, if you will. For posts, I'm the PTSD guy.
I'm a voice for these men and women. And what
(21:09):
also happens when I do this sort of thing live
is not only did the guys and gals who suffer
from this come up and thank me, but the wives
and the kids, or the husbands and the kids come
up and say, I understand my husband, or I understand
my dad or my mom my wife so much better now.
What the eventual goal here is to promote disclosure disclosure
(21:33):
breeds disclosure, which means if I tell a story, I'm
going to free somebody up in the studio audience or
in a live audience to say, hey, when am I
going to identify with that? I'm going to give that
person just a pinch of courage to tell their story.
And then we get a dialogue going, and the big
(21:54):
white elephant in the room, a PTSD and stigma starts
to get small. That's smaller. The more we talk about it,
the more we normalize it and take the fear out
of it.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Love this time of the year, because we're still following
those New Year's resolutions and they can be made good.
At Bricksmasons dot com. You can make twenty twenty five
that year that you get what you've always wanted, something personalized,
whether it's a nice new Masonic apron for you to
wear it to lodge, maybe a personalized Masonic ring the
evilways wanted, or that one item that's truly one of
(22:35):
a kind a Masonic decanter, sets special shoes to wear
to lodge, or just a hoodie to walk around when
you're doing shopping on the weekends. Get what you've always
wanted this year at Bricksmasons dot com. Visit Bricksmasons dot
Com and explore their extensive catalog. Elevate your Masonic experience
with style and substance plus Craftsman Online podcast listeners use
(22:59):
promo code Craftsman That's cr ftsme e n at checkout
to enjoy free shipping with your first order. I want
(23:25):
to talk a little bit about the event that's coming
up on January twenty third for our listener that is
in the capital region that we will be able to
see you in Rensseler County. How do we go about
being a part of this event?
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Okay, it's going to be at Hudson Valley Community College.
Admission is free, but there is sort of a sign
up sheet, and bring your buddy, bring your brothers, bring
your sisters, anybody who thinks they're going to benefit from it.
And what you're going to see is all six and
a half feet of yours truly trapesing around on the stage,
baseball cap and suspenders, looking like Santa Claus blood ugly
(23:57):
pissed off kid brother. And I'm going to tell one
story after another post traumatic stress, and I will make
it understandable and I will also underscore in the flags
that we have of the thin colored line, the thin
blue line within red line, yellow line, gray line, white line,
and green line. All of those thin colored lines are
(24:23):
getting thinner and thinner by the day, to the point
where our communities are no longer as safe as they
once were, and I believe our nation is no longer
as safe as it once was. I am talking about
the mental health aspect of a threat to what I
(24:44):
viewed to be a threat to national security. And please
don't take that as me being political. A lot of
patriotic flag waving, nothing like that. I don't glorify war,
because the guys who have fought it tell me what
it's like to and to deal with it. But what
I am trying to bring awareness to is the size
(25:05):
of this problem that nobody wants to talk about, and
how we as a nation are miserably failing our veterans
and our first responders. They come to us on these
guys come to us on our worst days. They pay
an enormous emotional price for that, and then they vanish.
(25:26):
And what I'm trying to view with at least the
mental health end of it. I don't do politics, I
don't do sociology, I don't do any of that stuff.
I'm just trying to talk about the severely maimed mental
health component of this problem and why we've got to
thicken up those colored lines and restore security to our
(25:49):
communities and to the country.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Brother Andrew doc Berry, thirty second degree, It's such a
pleasure to have you on. The last time you joined
us was an early twenty twenty one as you try
to help heal our mindset to get back to lodge
in a post COVID pangdemic, and here you are talking
about PTSD, a very real thing and how we can
all be responsible and be a part of helping those
that need the help that they need to get. Thank
(26:12):
you so much for coming on the Craftsman Online podcast.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Glad to be here, thanks for having me back.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Big thanks to our guest this week, Brother Andrew doc Berry.
I look forward to teaming up with him again in
May for a special mental health awareness podcast episode and
speaking about coming up. I hope to see you next
weekend at the first ever New York Masonic Con at
the Grand Lodge of New York in beautiful New York City.
My tummy is already getting full just thinking about the
(26:41):
Mariner's Lodge Beefsteak Banquet on Friday nights and then our
Masonicon the next day, and I hope to see you
at that seventeen eighty one Society mixer afterwards. This is
right worship for Brother Michael Arsa. I always enjoy our
time together. Until next time, Let peace and harmony prevail
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!