August 25, 2025 • 34 mins
WB Metal Drew is my co-host as we catch up with Bro. Franklin Rings on his latest Fraternal Review article, "The Skull and Metal in Masonry." We're going deep to uncover the unexpected philosophical and communal ties between two seemingly disparate subcultures: Heavy Metal music and Freemasonry.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Commons. Opinions and views shared during this program are
of those individual Freemasons and do not reflect the official
position of a Grand Lodge, Concordant Body, ap Pendant Body,
a Masonic authority, or Craftsman Online dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome back to the Craftsman Online Podcast, the only Masonic
podcast endorsed by the Grand Lodge of New York. I'm
your host Wright worship for Brother Michael Arsa and guys, guys,
we got to kill the music. I mean, if we're
going to go for a special metal episode, yes, we
need the metal music.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You're gonna hear a special theme for this episode because
we have a cool guest, Brother Franklin Rings is back
to talk about his latest Fraternal review article from the
Southern California of Research the Skull and Metal and Masonry.
And since I am admittingly not the biggest metal fan,
but I am becoming one, I have tapped into New
(01:10):
Jersey's favorite Freemason and ours too, Metal Drew as my
co host for this episode, My Brothers. Welcome back to
the Craftsman Online Podcast. My Brothers, Let's throw those let's
throw those horns in the air. Welcome back, to the
Craftsman Online podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, of course, thank you for having me back on.
It's always a pleasure, and again thank you for reaching out.
This sounds like it's gonna be fun and sounds like
it's gonna be educational for you and any of the
other brothers out there that may not be into this
genre of music.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That's a great place to start at a very high
level discussion. Because Drew stood up before we got the
red light rolling here for the recording and was like,
you like my metal T shirt and we can't see
all the fine print.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
All these lines are subgenres and obscured, like like funeral
m is a subgenre of metal, and you see you
can see brother Franklin grinning over there like he gets it,
he understands. But for someone like you or some other
brother out there that doesn't listen to this, they go,
what do you mean funeral doom?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
That sounds like, yes, it's exactly what it sounds like.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So for the purposes of this conversation, because I know
you guys, let's geek out about the music first. I
don't know anything about metal. We had this discussion before
I hit the record button. I'm like, probably the hardest
heaviest band I ever listened to would have been Guns
n' Roses or Velvet Revolver, and that was hardcore. Well,
I got into alternative music like Nine Inch Nails, uh ooh, Nirvana,
(02:36):
Pearl Jam wasn't really heavy, but that's about as heavy
as it got for me. What were you guys into
and how before we even get into the article about
the skull and freemasonry and metal music, where are you
guys connecting on that musical spectrum.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I've been a big power metal fan since I was
a teenager, so Dragon Force is really what got there
for me. It's really any of that metal that's about
like the heroes and any of these fantasy settings and
just rock now to that, so you go back to
do Oh and all that kind of power metal. It's
all like dungeons and dragons, fantasy stuff. It's it's fun music,
very fun, it's technical when it gets into the solos.
(03:11):
These guys are amazing artists. I go the other way.
I go into the extreme metal. So, like I started,
we had this conversation before brother Michael when we talked
about Iron Maiden, where like I came from the new
metal scene with like Marilyn Manson and stuff like that,
and then I just got darker into bands like Archspire
and Peeling Flesh and the exactly the bands where you
(03:33):
can't understand what they're saying and they're just straight aggression,
like that's that's where I am.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Or the bands where you talk about the albums around
certain parents of your friends and they'd be.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Like, what did he just say? What's right about this guy? Apeeling?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yeah, I had to hide my albums from my superiors. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
We're hoping that this podcast brings something for everyone, whether
you're not a big metal head, whether you are. If
you're a freemason and you're into the Fraternal Review, you're
going to dig the symbolic connection that we're going to
get to about the skull in freemasonry. Let's start with
just this really simple, high level question. Franklin, you talked
about kind of your interest in metal music, but we've
never really talked about like how you came up with
(04:14):
the idea for this article. Was this something that you
guys were doing a special addition, did you have to
pitch this to Angel Malar? How did it come to
be so?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Initially this article he had posed to me as talking
about punk and freemasonry specifically, and I listened to a
little bit of punk, but not enough where I'd feel
familiar enough to write a whole article on it. And
I wanted to obviously write something that I could give
some insight into, so I ended up softball pitching. Hey,
do you want to change the genre to metal overall?
(04:44):
You know? And then we can we have more room
to dance around and figure out what we want to
do there. And then, as opposed to just writing about
masonry broadly, I wanted to find a thematic that connects
the two. And skulls go right in with metal and masonry,
as Drew just showed. So yeah, it was honestly a
pretty simple connection. And then I've always wanted to talk
(05:06):
about the preparation room. I think it's my favorite part
of masonry, and it goes hand in hand with both things.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So curious for both of you, I guess it's a
good question. Do you remember about how old you wore
or when the first time you saw a skull was,
and what kind of intrigued you about either that symbol
or that image or actually seeing a skull in front.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Of I grew up Roman Catholic, so the idea of
Momento Mauri in general was all over the place within
just Catholic imagery. If you're talking about like an actual skull.
I lived in like a pretty wooded area, so there
are plenty of you know, fallen animals around me, so
(05:51):
like that was not And I was always into biology
as a child. I still kind of am. The biology
of the skull always fascinated me, saying like this is
a mouse, this is a deer, et cetera, et cetera.
So it didn't it never frightened me seeing something that
looked like death. It was more of a lungs a lie,
this is what you're going to become mental mory. Yeah.
(06:14):
I don't know if I can recall the first time
I saw the imagery of schools to begin with, but
I think the first time I ever saw a skull
was in the preparation room actually the Masamic Lodge, which
was an awesome, awesome connection and really kind of set
me up for this article to be in with.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So when you saw that in the preparation room, which
for someone who hasn't gone through that yet, it's the
little room we have, the anti room, that's off the
side before you go into the lodge. You collect your
thoughts there, at least in the Grand Lodge of New York.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
How we do it.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
You go in there as a candidate before you even
walk into the lodge, and you just kind of reflect
and it gives you time to think about like what
you're doing and why you're doing this. You look around
and you see this skull out of the corner of
your eye, Like was it a weird like fear feeling,
or like reassuring or what went through your mind?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
First question, because I didn't go through with the skull
through my degrees, but when we started to come up
with the idea of bringing this back into our lodge,
when my secretary had brought this to me, my first
question was is this a real skull? Like is this
actually someone who I'm like holding on to, you know?
And it was so for me. The first feeling I
felt was reverence, because I mean, to be able to
(07:21):
donate your body to something like this is just an
incredible thing to do.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Jen It's interesting because New Jersey didn't officially adopt the
preparation room, or a chamber of reflection as we call it,
until twenty nineteen, because up until then the Grand Lodge
thought it would scare away too many petitioners because of
imagery like that, and because of some of the other
things that are, at least according to our by laws,
(07:50):
are supposed to be in that room. Obviously, don't want
to give away too much. But yeah, they kind of
poo pooed it until about until my most worshpul Caintana,
I believe, is the one that actually instituted it.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
When I was going through it, there should be like
a little preparation before the preparation or a preparation before
the chamber of reflection to what you're saying, dre to
kind of prepare someone for that. My mother lodge in Schenectady.
It was the stain It was very similar to a
Catholic church experience. Was like the little stained glass images,
like the tea lights, and it had all these symbols
(08:25):
and I was like looking at them, and I'm like
the school. Yeah, I was like, oh, that's interesting, all right.
The sword with the heart. I'm like also in like
forty seventh Problem of Euclid, like.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yes, my favorite.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
And I'm jealous of Philadelphia and Pennsylvania Masons because that's
their past master emblem.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
You get the okay from Angel Malar, editor in chief
of The Fraternal Review. He's like, yeah, dude, let's do
this metal album article. And You're like, I want to
go with the skull. So for our listener, can you
give us a little background and drew you as well,
I a little background on like what the goal means
and metal music. Like you guys talked about growing up,
(09:03):
there's a little bit of the macabre, there's a little
bit of the unknown, there's the remains of somebody. For me,
it was a kid growing up in southern California and
the Los Angeles Raiders at that time had skulls on
the side of their helmet. They still do now, but
it was like it was the ultimate like tough guy,
like pirate flag, like fear nothing. It's still kind of
is still kind of is the ultimate badass basically is
(09:24):
that's who rocks a skull.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I think it's death really too, Like I mean simply put.
You know, in a lot of these genres, you got
some heavy lyrics and you have some heavy themes going
along with it. The skull is just bound to come
along with those things. It's like one of the oldest
symbols of death that we have cross culturally now. M
especially depending on the artist that is using it, Like Slayer,
for example, is going to put skulls on their stuff
(09:48):
because of how you describe the ultimate badass. They're trying
to look threatening, or their topics are about death itself.
I mean, they have a song called Angel of Death.
It's all about World War two and specifically the Holocaust.
I can't remember the doctor who was the dog who
was the angel of death. I can't remember what the
doctor was, the Nazi doctor, but him, it was about him.
(10:10):
But then you get other artists like Dream Theater, who
is a progressive metal band, who would have a skull
there for the more contemplative aspect of death, the fact
that you're this is where you're going to end up,
and they'll have this giant, twelve minute flowing song about it. Man,
I love Dream Theatre. I'm so glad you brought them up.
(10:30):
That is not a band you hear most people bring up.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
I got to see them an Iron Maiden at Madison
Square Garden, same concert, Yeah, same venue, My gosh, that's
why Iron Maid was the headliner and Bruce Dickinson put
everyone to shame. The man's like triple my age and
still outruns everyone. He's amazing on stage.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Those are two iconic bands, Brother Arci. That's yes, absolutely incredible.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I'll mention this several times during the podcast. I said
earlier on I'm going to give this disclaimer, so I
don't know all of these albums. Drew educated me on
Iron Made in the last time we talked. Hey, it's
right worship brother Michael Ars. Before you hit skip, please
hear me out. I do get commercial about not wanting
to do commercials anymore, and this is where I need
(11:16):
your help. Not sure if you know this, but the
Craftsman Online podcast is on Patreon at Craftsman Online. And
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(11:39):
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(12:00):
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All right, let's make this happen. Back to the article.
(12:27):
We're getting into the school. We've talked about the death
mortality biology past. One of the quotes you said is
like ultimately the future. That's what all of this represents
in music. It's interesting, though, how we interpret the Skoll.
I think if you went to every single brother, there's
not the answer. There's just several uh answers. If you
ask any Mason, what does the Scholl mean to you?
(12:49):
Because we all see it at different parts and it
hits us different ways. I think in our degrees or
just in our experience as a freeman. How did you
try to find at least some sort of central theme
of that to connect music with Mason?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
It's a great question. Well, I think death is a
central point in both of these things both in masonry
you see it a lot in the third degree and
in many many genres of metal, you know, and the
skull is in iconography that goes across Bolt as well.
You know, so that was a pretty easy find.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
You're kind of a resident symbology expert here.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
You listen to any brother and you're going to get
any brother's inspiration for what the skull means. You know,
you get a brother who went through York right and
goes to night Templar, he's going to give you a
different answer.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
You have brothers who just stay in Blue Lodge and
may have only seen it for their third degree, They're
going to give you a different answer, even even within
Scottish right. I noticed that, brother Franklin, you have a
helm of Awe on your arm. I do, yeah, yep,
So like that can connect to the skull with oh yeah,
Viking imagery and that why that has a specific yeah,
(13:58):
you know, like I have a little alter here to
odin behind me.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Oh wow, okay. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
There's so many different ways that you could say the
skull and masonry connects, or you could just be like
me and brother Carl Hernandez and just say make masonry
skulls again, amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
I need that shirt, by the way. We'll chat after
if he still has it.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I think seeing the skull in freemasonry is kind of
a shock to a lot of men, honestly, because it's
not what you would really expect. Like, we're very familiar
with the square compass and the letter G, like that
is the Masonic icon right there, and if we were
to replace that to what Drew was saying, if we
replace that with the skull, I don't think it's going
to diminish all what freemasonry is about. But I think
(14:38):
it is quite a surprise because up until a certain
point in your degree process, the idea of death hasn't
really been in the conversation, let's say, so to speak,
until this real critical point in the third degree, and
then it just kind of like everything opens up and
you're like, Oh, that whole question or all those questions
(14:59):
I was asking about why I wanted to be a
mason or why I wanted to get into this, Now
this answer is starting to drain through all these filters
and it's all starting to make sense. I can see
Drew is ready to explode with it.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah, so I've got so this is just a thing
that I my little pet peeve. I don't like the
G in the center. I believe it's a very American invention. Okay,
there should be nothing in the center because the center
is the focal point between the square and compass. I mean,
And one of the things I actually have on my
past master bag is a squaring compass.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
With a skull in the center. Awesome, made by brother
Tom McGee over in Fossil Bluff. Because that's what you're
supposed to be doing with those two symbols. Those two
symbols are meant to mean something specific for you, the individual.
I could not agree more. That was so well said.
(15:54):
Those two tools are yours to use in your life,
and you're going to be going towards it to the
skull at one point in time, so better use them
on the way there.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
And again, it's just like I have a bunch of hats,
they're all without the G in the center of it.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
It's just open. It's just open square encompasses.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
And I get a lot of questions like why isn't
the G there, And I'm like, that's an American thing.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
It is.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Plus not every language says that word the same letter.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yep, yeah, we got to consider.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
That that could be a whole another episode. Let's go
back to the metal.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
As I mentioned, I don't know a lot of these
artists and I really don't know the music, and I
need to get to learn more so I have a
better appreciation for it. But Franklin, you you highlight the
album cover of Judas Priests Sin after Sin, oh yeah,
and you talk about how this is like really reflective
and like Masonic imagery. You specifically mentioned the two columns
and a mausoleum resembling a temple. I have no idea
(16:53):
what all this means, but Drew, hopefully you can jump
in and kind of help with this one. That the
visual cues that are on that particular album, how did
it end up in this article and become such a
focal point for you.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
When I was doing some research into bands I wanted
to talk about that worked with the iconography. When I
saw this album cover, it was absolutely stunning. I don't
think I can make a more strict parallel to masonry
if I tried. The old architecture, the dark background kind
of giving me this like air of mysteriousness, and where
am I going? And like questioning more than answers. The
(17:28):
columns with orders of architecture, it just like speaks for itself.
The skull over the top of the archway, it speaks
for itself.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
It is very much that going back to almost what
we were talking about with Iron Maiden with Power Slave
Thank You, kind of an Egyptian theme there in the
center with the architecture, and US Masons love our Egyptian
architecture for some reason. Screw the Romans, we want the Egyptian. Yep,
you leave masonry out of this for a second. Like,
(17:58):
let's just look at this as as we say, a profane.
That image looks as though the woman here is going
to be going to something dark or something unknown. Even
if there wasn't a skull there, you could take the
skull off the top of it and just have the
pillars and that door, and there's something a bit ominous
(18:21):
about it, a bit unknown about it. Now, Judas Priest
isn't the most evil band when it comes to lyrics
and whatnot. I mean, for the time they were definitely
up there. Godfather's a metal as they call rob Halford,
but like it definitely invokes dark imagery and that's definitely
during this time. So you had these guys, you had
d Oh, you had even Black Sabbath Mayah. You can
(18:45):
kind of say led Zeppelin with like the Hermit on
the cover of their album The Hermit Card from from Tarots.
It's trying to invoke a feeling and then calling your
album sin after sin and showing this pathway, this ominous pathway.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, I'm looking at this. I don't know about any
of the songs or the music or the message that's
in this album. But if I was just and I
am the outsider that's seeing this from a Masonic lens,
I'm like, okay, So on the right side of the album,
so if we're looking at you know, as the sun
rises in the east and sets in the west, and
it's moving across to the left coast, right, you see
(19:23):
the sun starting to set, and there's this ominous creature
in what looks like an ocean or a body of
water behind this mausoleum, which obviously has all of the pillars.
I'm sure there's somebody that's more verse in the middle
chamber lecture. They could tell you if that's the Corinthian,
the Doric, the you know, whatever style that is but
(19:44):
the thing that looks like it's so out of place
and doesn't belong here is the outline of the woman
in high heels, which the high heels kind of have
that pinkish hue to them, and I'm like, what is
that thing doing?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Like that?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Immediately is where my eye was drawn to all of
these other things, the skull, the eyes of being, the light,
and that looks cool, but it was like, this thing
doesn't look like it belongs here. That's what kind of
caught me about this. I'm interested to hear. What about
the music the other art that was in this album,
(20:19):
does that match the cover of this I mean one
of the singles was Dissonant Aggressor, so yeah, yeah, it
kind of did. Dissident Aggressor was definitely one of the
more punky songs because you got to realize that this
this band came up around the same time as the
punk scene was also developing, so they were sharing topics
(20:41):
of rebellion. I don't want to say anti government, but
definitely like you know, down with the man type thing,
like we don't want to take take your rules.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I gotta say too. Going back to that album cover,
there's a couple other things I identified here imagery wise,
Like we see the moon in there, just obviously a
Masonic symbol in some capacity. You also see the woman
who's shaded in white, and you see whatever that figure
is shaded in black that's in the water, and that
(21:09):
does kind of also reflect maybe some of that black
and white tiling that we're used to seeing as well,
and as someone who's used to seeing that duality, that
stood out as well.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Now, is this the only album cover that was a
central point or were there other arts that you were
connecting to this Judas Priest album.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, so great question. I did call out a couple
of Iron Maiden covers which don't have as much Masonic
symbolism as I said. I think that's one of the
more like profoundly connected ones. But I did talk a
lot about Eddie from Iron Maiden, who's like a reoccurring
mascot throughout all their albums, and he's like a Musco
(21:48):
skeletal figure who you're seeing more of the human anatomy,
but you can see more of the skull, and he's
constantly changing thematic throughout the album covers and in my
personal favorite album, I think Iron Maiden Stunn in a while,
which is sends you two. You can actually see more
of this skeletal figure because he's wearing what's supposed to
(22:09):
be like a demonic samurai garb thing going on. So
don't forget about vic Rattlebones for Mega Death. Oh that's
a good one too. Yeah. I mean they actually look
very similar.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Similar to Eddie, which we discussed when we talked about
Iron Maiden. He if he looked at the Power Slave album,
he's the one. Uh that's that is the in the
background behind the pyramid.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
That's Eddie.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
He's the character every single Iron Maiden album. I'm pretty
sure every album has some iteration of him. And he
actually comes up on stage too, Like when they're performing
they whether whether they're second to last or last songs,
they'll come out and the singer Bruce Dickinson will have
a fight with him of somehow. It's it's again, it's
a great show. If you have the If they're still touring,
(22:54):
go see them.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
But also the other band, Megadeath, who came up with Metal,
has their own mascot called vic Rattlebones. I'd say the
most famous two albums would be Peace Cells. But who's
buying where he's leaning up against a sign with bombs
going down over behind him, and I can't remember what
(23:17):
album it was that they did Hangar eighteen, but he's
like over alien bodies, you know. Show it's more of
that conspiratorial like the government knows more than they're letting
you on type thing. And one of the things with
Rattlebones is his mouth is closed. It's it's closed shut
(23:37):
with a piece of metal tying his lips to it.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I'm glad you brought that up because that was something
I was going to talk about. And Hangar eighteen is
probably my favorite Megadeth song easily by far. Tornado of
Souls personally, Yeah, incredible, absolutely incredible. We could earn out forever. Yeah,
but that album covers also all so phenomenal as far
as the skull imagery.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Yeah, And like I said that, when it comes to Megadeath,
it's more of the conspiratorial side, like it's not the
it's not the death imagery in respect of how what
you were saying with even with Judas Priest, it's more
of like, yo, this is this being that has existed
forever and he knows all the secrets exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
You see that continued theme of rebellion that you can
also see throughout like pretty much right from the get
go as far as metal was made in the UK.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
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(25:22):
quotes from your article, Franklin, that really kind of stuck
with me because you make a really good tie of
the experience you say. Quote companionship one feels when facing
morality or mortality before and during a Masonic ritual is
incredibly like what metal heads can feel when listening to
a shared band at a show together. And Drew just
(25:43):
made the comment like, Hey, if you get a chance
to go see this band, you should because they rock
and you'll enjoy this stage show. So this is kind
of a twofold question. One what did you fully mean
about that? Like that shared experience, but also two kind
of to what you just talked about. Now, when I
see a brother, Now, when I meet a brother who
has an interest in metal and they come into our craft,
(26:06):
they're going to have some questions in their mind that
me as someone that grew up in you know, the
eighties and nineties and listened to country music or.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I'm not listen, listen if you want, I'll bring my
wife in here. You can talk country music all day, Okay,
Tray Atkins is the man. I mean, let's be honest.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Would have come from a different music background, and there's
different themes and there's different ideas in that, and I
think you guys are smart enough to see where I'm
going here. It's like, what is it when metal heads
are coming into freemasonry. You're not speaking for all metal heads,
but just generally speaking, like, what are some things that
they're looking for in the craft or what appeals to
them about coming into freemasonry That may not exist in
(26:48):
the same mindset of a guy who comes in who's
an R and B fan, or was a country music fan,
or just like pop music or classical music that now
that they're in masonry, they're like being exposed to all
of these different colors of the crayon and the crayola boss.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
That is such a that's a really good question.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Specifically to that, I'll just turn around be like, hey,
do you know Cold Chamber does Fafar as a brother?
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I have no idea where it took him up. That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
The lead singer of a Cold Chamber and Devil Driver.
Uh pretty Uh. I guess you could kind of call
it like groove metal is a brother in California.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Brad Paisley's a freemason. See see that's however, But seriously
to that point, like what are metal heads when they
come in and they go through these degree experiences they
see they walk into a I mean, my guess is
you can't shock them when they walk into a room
and there's an altar sitting there with three burning candles
(27:47):
and a volume of sacred Law. They're like, yeah, this rocks,
Like I'm totally nothing is going to surprise me about
this experience. This is what I signed up for.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
I think there's two things that immediately come to mind
when you ask those questions. So one, I think one
of the things that could be attractive as these darker
thematics as I've been drawing the parallel to in here,
you know, the iconography, the skull, the bones, the mystery,
the unknowing. You know, I think that's one. Let me see,
(28:15):
I think one thing they could be looking for as
well as the companionship the brotherhood as you would alluded
to in the article. I try to draw that parallel
like when you go to a festival, and I'm sure
Drew will be able to like note this for sure.
When you go to a concert or you go to
a festival, you're going to meet other like minded people
or else you guys wouldn't all be there to begin with.
(28:36):
So there's already this innate connection between you guys where
you can strike up these conversations. You kind of feel connected.
And I think that's what happens with freemasonry as you
go on that journey together, especially when you're in the
preparation room together, you're going through the degree together. It's
like taking that connection in that relationship that happens randomly
(28:56):
in a concert and then you're doing it in our fraternity.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
To emphasize that point, when I did go to see
Iron Maiden and Dream Theater, there were fathers there with
their kids, and you know, the common quote is, look,
you're raising them right. And there was no hatred, there
was no nothing there. It was everyone was everyone's friend
because you were all there to go see these two
amazing bands. And even even like in the extreme metal community,
(29:21):
when you get into like the really ridiculous mosh pits
and everything, like seeing Lamb of God live and watching
the Wall of Death happen, you're picking those people up.
You're not there to physically fight, You're still picking them
up from the ground after you get done mashing. It
wasn't a it wasn't a violent act for Violen's sake.
(29:43):
It was a release of energy.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
I'm so glad you bring that up.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
I mean, granted, listen, it's if everywhere there's always gonna
be bad apples, no matter where you go, whether it
be freemasonry or metal or any other community, there's always
bad apples somewhere. But if you want to just kind
of umbrel a term it, yeah, where it's very similar
to a brotherhood, a brother and sisterhood, and that's in
that respect of we're there because we love this music
and we want to enjoy it together.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
I'm not a big pit person now, neither am I
I watch when I get really daring old jump in
a couple of times, but that was one of my
first thoughts when I went to my first couple of
metal concerts, of being like, this is pretty dangerous, like
what's the intent behind these people and such? Of course,
but it's amazing to watch these people like with so
(30:30):
much energy make sure no one gets tramped, Like if
someone falls, if you even look like you're going to fall,
there's like six people picking you back up again. And
what an allegory for the brotherhood in the craft, right.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I was just going to hit on that note, Franklin,
so thank you for teaing that up for me. I
was wanted to talk about the subcultures and then the
stereotypes and that exists in metal, but that also exists
in freemasonry when you think about it. When we started
this conversation off, I think before the everything got rolling,
Drew noted the tattoo that you have on your forearm,
(31:07):
and I looked at it. I was like, oh, that's
a pretty cool gear tattoo, and Drew like called it
out right away.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
The helm of that's the helm of Awe. I I
have a Vegevacier coin behind me.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah. Like.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
And actually, to tie all this together, brother Arci, when
I showed you this shirt, the image of this shirt,
the first one you picked up on was Viking metal
and you joked about it, and my immediate retort was, oh,
I guess you never heard of Amana marth.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Ding you'd be correct.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
And and and to tie that even further back to
the mosh pits, how ridiculously silly some of them get.
They'll get into rowing formation and row like they're rowing
of Viking or it's just silly.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
To that point.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
So that there's this subculture, right, and if you're in it,
it doesn't seem or weird or foreign at all because
these are your people. This is your flock, right, And
I think all of us can feel the same way,
whether we're walking into another lodge in our jurisdiction, or
crossing state lines or flying to another part of the
world and we walk into a Masonic lodge, You're like,
oh cool, I'm amongst brothers, I'm amongst friends like, But
(32:17):
there's also the stereotypes, and you guys are totally hitting
on that, because before we had this conversation, I would
have shared the same stereotypes about metal heads that most
people have about people that listen to country music. They
go back and forth, right, But now that I've had
this conversation, I'm like, Wow, these guys aren't just putting
skulls and symbols on their body because they look cool.
(32:37):
I mean, they do look cool, but you also know
the meaning about this, because you're not going to put
something on you that you don't know what it fully means,
because well, then you're just going to look like an
asshole and nobody wants that. Yeah, we all said, dude,
I am really digging this metal music. If you've enjoyed
this episode, you're gonna love our Subscriber Extra time that
(32:57):
we have with Brother Franklin and Metal Drew, where yes,
we talk all things metal and of course more on
how to become a writer and maybe get your article
published someday and the Fraternal Review. You'll find that in
our Subscriber Extra episode. Oh wait, here's how you can
become a subscriber extra. Glad you asked it's our goal.
This month, We're trying to hit twenty subscribers on our
(33:18):
Patreon account. That's Craftsman Online at Patreon. What you get
ad free listening, You get all of our episodes early,
and you get access to all of our subscriber extra
episodes like this week's with Brother Franklin, Rings and Metal Drew.
It only costs five bunks a month, dude, I think
you can support that. That's less to park my car
(33:39):
at lodge when I go into town. You can't even
buy food for five dollars anymore, but you can support
the Craftsman Online podcast and seriously with thank you in advance.
The link to join us on Patreon is in the
notes for this episode, or just search for Craftsman Online.
I'm right worship for Brother Michael Larsai. I guess I'll
see some of you on Thursday for the subscriber extra episode.
(34:00):
Until next time, though, let peace and harmony prevail
The Commons. Opinions and views shared during this program are
of those individual Freemasons and do not reflect the official
position of a Grand Lodge, Concordant Body, ap Pendant Body,
a Masonic authority, or Craftsman Online dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Welcome back to the Craftsman Online Podcast, the only Masonic
podcast endorsed by the Grand Lodge of New York. I'm
your host Wright worship for Brother Michael Arsa and guys, guys,
we got to kill the music. I mean, if we're
going to go for a special metal episode, yes, we
need the metal music.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
You're gonna hear a special theme for this episode because
we have a cool guest, Brother Franklin Rings is back
to talk about his latest Fraternal review article from the
Southern California of Research the Skull and Metal and Masonry.
And since I am admittingly not the biggest metal fan,
but I am becoming one, I have tapped into New
(01:10):
Jersey's favorite Freemason and ours too, Metal Drew as my
co host for this episode, My Brothers. Welcome back to
the Craftsman Online Podcast. My Brothers, Let's throw those let's
throw those horns in the air. Welcome back, to the
Craftsman Online podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, of course, thank you for having me back on.
It's always a pleasure, and again thank you for reaching out.
This sounds like it's gonna be fun and sounds like
it's gonna be educational for you and any of the
other brothers out there that may not be into this
genre of music.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
That's a great place to start at a very high
level discussion. Because Drew stood up before we got the
red light rolling here for the recording and was like,
you like my metal T shirt and we can't see
all the fine print.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
All these lines are subgenres and obscured, like like funeral
m is a subgenre of metal, and you see you
can see brother Franklin grinning over there like he gets it,
he understands. But for someone like you or some other
brother out there that doesn't listen to this, they go,
what do you mean funeral doom?
Speaker 3 (02:10):
That sounds like, yes, it's exactly what it sounds like.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So for the purposes of this conversation, because I know
you guys, let's geek out about the music first. I
don't know anything about metal. We had this discussion before
I hit the record button. I'm like, probably the hardest
heaviest band I ever listened to would have been Guns
n' Roses or Velvet Revolver, and that was hardcore. Well,
I got into alternative music like Nine Inch Nails, uh ooh, Nirvana,
(02:36):
Pearl Jam wasn't really heavy, but that's about as heavy
as it got for me. What were you guys into
and how before we even get into the article about
the skull and freemasonry and metal music, where are you
guys connecting on that musical spectrum.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
I've been a big power metal fan since I was
a teenager, so Dragon Force is really what got there
for me. It's really any of that metal that's about
like the heroes and any of these fantasy settings and
just rock now to that, so you go back to
do Oh and all that kind of power metal. It's
all like dungeons and dragons, fantasy stuff. It's it's fun music,
very fun, it's technical when it gets into the solos.
(03:11):
These guys are amazing artists. I go the other way.
I go into the extreme metal. So, like I started,
we had this conversation before brother Michael when we talked
about Iron Maiden, where like I came from the new
metal scene with like Marilyn Manson and stuff like that,
and then I just got darker into bands like Archspire
and Peeling Flesh and the exactly the bands where you
(03:33):
can't understand what they're saying and they're just straight aggression,
like that's that's where I am.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Or the bands where you talk about the albums around
certain parents of your friends and they'd be.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Like, what did he just say? What's right about this guy? Apeeling?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Yeah, I had to hide my albums from my superiors. Amazing.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
We're hoping that this podcast brings something for everyone, whether
you're not a big metal head, whether you are. If
you're a freemason and you're into the Fraternal Review, you're
going to dig the symbolic connection that we're going to
get to about the skull in freemasonry. Let's start with
just this really simple, high level question. Franklin, you talked
about kind of your interest in metal music, but we've
never really talked about like how you came up with
(04:14):
the idea for this article. Was this something that you
guys were doing a special addition, did you have to
pitch this to Angel Malar? How did it come to
be so?
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Initially this article he had posed to me as talking
about punk and freemasonry specifically, and I listened to a
little bit of punk, but not enough where I'd feel
familiar enough to write a whole article on it. And
I wanted to obviously write something that I could give
some insight into, so I ended up softball pitching. Hey,
do you want to change the genre to metal overall?
(04:44):
You know? And then we can we have more room
to dance around and figure out what we want to
do there. And then, as opposed to just writing about
masonry broadly, I wanted to find a thematic that connects
the two. And skulls go right in with metal and masonry,
as Drew just showed. So yeah, it was honestly a
pretty simple connection. And then I've always wanted to talk
(05:06):
about the preparation room. I think it's my favorite part
of masonry, and it goes hand in hand with both things.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So curious for both of you, I guess it's a
good question. Do you remember about how old you wore
or when the first time you saw a skull was,
and what kind of intrigued you about either that symbol
or that image or actually seeing a skull in front.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Of I grew up Roman Catholic, so the idea of
Momento Mauri in general was all over the place within
just Catholic imagery. If you're talking about like an actual skull.
I lived in like a pretty wooded area, so there
are plenty of you know, fallen animals around me, so
(05:51):
like that was not And I was always into biology
as a child. I still kind of am. The biology
of the skull always fascinated me, saying like this is
a mouse, this is a deer, et cetera, et cetera.
So it didn't it never frightened me seeing something that
looked like death. It was more of a lungs a lie,
this is what you're going to become mental mory. Yeah.
(06:14):
I don't know if I can recall the first time
I saw the imagery of schools to begin with, but
I think the first time I ever saw a skull
was in the preparation room actually the Masamic Lodge, which
was an awesome, awesome connection and really kind of set
me up for this article to be in with.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
So when you saw that in the preparation room, which
for someone who hasn't gone through that yet, it's the
little room we have, the anti room, that's off the
side before you go into the lodge. You collect your
thoughts there, at least in the Grand Lodge of New York.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
How we do it.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
You go in there as a candidate before you even
walk into the lodge, and you just kind of reflect
and it gives you time to think about like what
you're doing and why you're doing this. You look around
and you see this skull out of the corner of
your eye, Like was it a weird like fear feeling,
or like reassuring or what went through your mind?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
First question, because I didn't go through with the skull
through my degrees, but when we started to come up
with the idea of bringing this back into our lodge,
when my secretary had brought this to me, my first
question was is this a real skull? Like is this
actually someone who I'm like holding on to, you know?
And it was so for me. The first feeling I
felt was reverence, because I mean, to be able to
(07:21):
donate your body to something like this is just an
incredible thing to do.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Jen It's interesting because New Jersey didn't officially adopt the
preparation room, or a chamber of reflection as we call it,
until twenty nineteen, because up until then the Grand Lodge
thought it would scare away too many petitioners because of
imagery like that, and because of some of the other
things that are, at least according to our by laws,
(07:50):
are supposed to be in that room. Obviously, don't want
to give away too much. But yeah, they kind of
poo pooed it until about until my most worshpul Caintana,
I believe, is the one that actually instituted it.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
When I was going through it, there should be like
a little preparation before the preparation or a preparation before
the chamber of reflection to what you're saying, dre to
kind of prepare someone for that. My mother lodge in Schenectady.
It was the stain It was very similar to a
Catholic church experience. Was like the little stained glass images,
like the tea lights, and it had all these symbols
(08:25):
and I was like looking at them, and I'm like
the school. Yeah, I was like, oh, that's interesting, all right.
The sword with the heart. I'm like also in like
forty seventh Problem of Euclid, like.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yes, my favorite.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
And I'm jealous of Philadelphia and Pennsylvania Masons because that's
their past master emblem.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
You get the okay from Angel Malar, editor in chief
of The Fraternal Review. He's like, yeah, dude, let's do
this metal album article. And You're like, I want to
go with the skull. So for our listener, can you
give us a little background and drew you as well,
I a little background on like what the goal means
and metal music. Like you guys talked about growing up,
(09:03):
there's a little bit of the macabre, there's a little
bit of the unknown, there's the remains of somebody. For me,
it was a kid growing up in southern California and
the Los Angeles Raiders at that time had skulls on
the side of their helmet. They still do now, but
it was like it was the ultimate like tough guy,
like pirate flag, like fear nothing. It's still kind of
is still kind of is the ultimate badass basically is
(09:24):
that's who rocks a skull.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I think it's death really too, Like I mean simply put.
You know, in a lot of these genres, you got
some heavy lyrics and you have some heavy themes going
along with it. The skull is just bound to come
along with those things. It's like one of the oldest
symbols of death that we have cross culturally now. M
especially depending on the artist that is using it, Like Slayer,
for example, is going to put skulls on their stuff
(09:48):
because of how you describe the ultimate badass. They're trying
to look threatening, or their topics are about death itself.
I mean, they have a song called Angel of Death.
It's all about World War two and specifically the Holocaust.
I can't remember the doctor who was the dog who
was the angel of death. I can't remember what the
doctor was, the Nazi doctor, but him, it was about him.
(10:10):
But then you get other artists like Dream Theater, who
is a progressive metal band, who would have a skull
there for the more contemplative aspect of death, the fact
that you're this is where you're going to end up,
and they'll have this giant, twelve minute flowing song about it. Man,
I love Dream Theatre. I'm so glad you brought them up.
(10:30):
That is not a band you hear most people bring up.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
I got to see them an Iron Maiden at Madison
Square Garden, same concert, Yeah, same venue, My gosh, that's
why Iron Maid was the headliner and Bruce Dickinson put
everyone to shame. The man's like triple my age and
still outruns everyone. He's amazing on stage.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Those are two iconic bands, Brother Arci. That's yes, absolutely incredible.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
I'll mention this several times during the podcast. I said
earlier on I'm going to give this disclaimer, so I
don't know all of these albums. Drew educated me on
Iron Made in the last time we talked. Hey, it's
right worship brother Michael Ars. Before you hit skip, please
hear me out. I do get commercial about not wanting
to do commercials anymore, and this is where I need
(11:16):
your help. Not sure if you know this, but the
Craftsman Online podcast is on Patreon at Craftsman Online. And
here's the deal. I'm hoping to get twenty Patreon subscribers
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(11:39):
a cost to buy anything to eat right now, drinks
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(12:00):
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All right, let's make this happen. Back to the article.
(12:27):
We're getting into the school. We've talked about the death
mortality biology past. One of the quotes you said is
like ultimately the future. That's what all of this represents
in music. It's interesting, though, how we interpret the Skoll.
I think if you went to every single brother, there's
not the answer. There's just several uh answers. If you
ask any Mason, what does the Scholl mean to you?
(12:49):
Because we all see it at different parts and it
hits us different ways. I think in our degrees or
just in our experience as a freeman. How did you
try to find at least some sort of central theme
of that to connect music with Mason?
Speaker 3 (13:01):
It's a great question. Well, I think death is a
central point in both of these things both in masonry
you see it a lot in the third degree and
in many many genres of metal, you know, and the
skull is in iconography that goes across Bolt as well.
You know, so that was a pretty easy find.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
You're kind of a resident symbology expert here.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
You listen to any brother and you're going to get
any brother's inspiration for what the skull means. You know,
you get a brother who went through York right and
goes to night Templar, he's going to give you a
different answer.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
You know.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
You have brothers who just stay in Blue Lodge and
may have only seen it for their third degree, They're
going to give you a different answer, even even within
Scottish right. I noticed that, brother Franklin, you have a
helm of Awe on your arm. I do, yeah, yep,
So like that can connect to the skull with oh yeah,
Viking imagery and that why that has a specific yeah,
(13:58):
you know, like I have a little alter here to
odin behind me.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Oh wow, okay. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
There's so many different ways that you could say the
skull and masonry connects, or you could just be like
me and brother Carl Hernandez and just say make masonry
skulls again, amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
I need that shirt, by the way. We'll chat after
if he still has it.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I think seeing the skull in freemasonry is kind of
a shock to a lot of men, honestly, because it's
not what you would really expect. Like, we're very familiar
with the square compass and the letter G, like that
is the Masonic icon right there, and if we were
to replace that to what Drew was saying, if we
replace that with the skull, I don't think it's going
to diminish all what freemasonry is about. But I think
(14:38):
it is quite a surprise because up until a certain
point in your degree process, the idea of death hasn't
really been in the conversation, let's say, so to speak,
until this real critical point in the third degree, and
then it just kind of like everything opens up and
you're like, Oh, that whole question or all those questions
(14:59):
I was asking about why I wanted to be a
mason or why I wanted to get into this, Now
this answer is starting to drain through all these filters
and it's all starting to make sense. I can see
Drew is ready to explode with it.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
Yeah, so I've got so this is just a thing
that I my little pet peeve. I don't like the
G in the center. I believe it's a very American invention. Okay,
there should be nothing in the center because the center
is the focal point between the square and compass. I mean,
And one of the things I actually have on my
past master bag is a squaring compass.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
With a skull in the center. Awesome, made by brother
Tom McGee over in Fossil Bluff. Because that's what you're
supposed to be doing with those two symbols. Those two
symbols are meant to mean something specific for you, the individual.
I could not agree more. That was so well said.
(15:54):
Those two tools are yours to use in your life,
and you're going to be going towards it to the
skull at one point in time, so better use them
on the way there.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
And again, it's just like I have a bunch of hats,
they're all without the G in the center of it.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
It's just open. It's just open square encompasses.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
And I get a lot of questions like why isn't
the G there, And I'm like, that's an American thing.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
It is.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Plus not every language says that word the same letter.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Yep, yeah, we got to consider.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
That that could be a whole another episode. Let's go
back to the metal.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
As I mentioned, I don't know a lot of these
artists and I really don't know the music, and I
need to get to learn more so I have a
better appreciation for it. But Franklin, you you highlight the
album cover of Judas Priests Sin after Sin, oh yeah,
and you talk about how this is like really reflective
and like Masonic imagery. You specifically mentioned the two columns
and a mausoleum resembling a temple. I have no idea
(16:53):
what all this means, but Drew, hopefully you can jump
in and kind of help with this one. That the
visual cues that are on that particular album, how did
it end up in this article and become such a
focal point for you.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
When I was doing some research into bands I wanted
to talk about that worked with the iconography. When I
saw this album cover, it was absolutely stunning. I don't
think I can make a more strict parallel to masonry
if I tried. The old architecture, the dark background kind
of giving me this like air of mysteriousness, and where
am I going? And like questioning more than answers. The
(17:28):
columns with orders of architecture, it just like speaks for itself.
The skull over the top of the archway, it speaks
for itself.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
It is very much that going back to almost what
we were talking about with Iron Maiden with Power Slave
Thank You, kind of an Egyptian theme there in the
center with the architecture, and US Masons love our Egyptian
architecture for some reason. Screw the Romans, we want the Egyptian. Yep,
you leave masonry out of this for a second. Like,
(17:58):
let's just look at this as as we say, a profane.
That image looks as though the woman here is going
to be going to something dark or something unknown. Even
if there wasn't a skull there, you could take the
skull off the top of it and just have the
pillars and that door, and there's something a bit ominous
(18:21):
about it, a bit unknown about it. Now, Judas Priest
isn't the most evil band when it comes to lyrics
and whatnot. I mean, for the time they were definitely
up there. Godfather's a metal as they call rob Halford,
but like it definitely invokes dark imagery and that's definitely
during this time. So you had these guys, you had
d Oh, you had even Black Sabbath Mayah. You can
(18:45):
kind of say led Zeppelin with like the Hermit on
the cover of their album The Hermit Card from from Tarots.
It's trying to invoke a feeling and then calling your
album sin after sin and showing this pathway, this ominous pathway.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Well, I'm looking at this. I don't know about any
of the songs or the music or the message that's
in this album. But if I was just and I
am the outsider that's seeing this from a Masonic lens,
I'm like, okay, So on the right side of the album,
so if we're looking at you know, as the sun
rises in the east and sets in the west, and
it's moving across to the left coast, right, you see
(19:23):
the sun starting to set, and there's this ominous creature
in what looks like an ocean or a body of
water behind this mausoleum, which obviously has all of the pillars.
I'm sure there's somebody that's more verse in the middle
chamber lecture. They could tell you if that's the Corinthian,
the Doric, the you know, whatever style that is but
(19:44):
the thing that looks like it's so out of place
and doesn't belong here is the outline of the woman
in high heels, which the high heels kind of have
that pinkish hue to them, and I'm like, what is
that thing doing?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Like that?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Immediately is where my eye was drawn to all of
these other things, the skull, the eyes of being, the light,
and that looks cool, but it was like, this thing
doesn't look like it belongs here. That's what kind of
caught me about this. I'm interested to hear. What about
the music the other art that was in this album,
(20:19):
does that match the cover of this I mean one
of the singles was Dissonant Aggressor, so yeah, yeah, it
kind of did. Dissident Aggressor was definitely one of the
more punky songs because you got to realize that this
this band came up around the same time as the
punk scene was also developing, so they were sharing topics
(20:41):
of rebellion. I don't want to say anti government, but
definitely like you know, down with the man type thing,
like we don't want to take take your rules.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I gotta say too. Going back to that album cover,
there's a couple other things I identified here imagery wise,
Like we see the moon in there, just obviously a
Masonic symbol in some capacity. You also see the woman
who's shaded in white, and you see whatever that figure
is shaded in black that's in the water, and that
(21:09):
does kind of also reflect maybe some of that black
and white tiling that we're used to seeing as well,
and as someone who's used to seeing that duality, that
stood out as well.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Now, is this the only album cover that was a
central point or were there other arts that you were
connecting to this Judas Priest album.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, so great question. I did call out a couple
of Iron Maiden covers which don't have as much Masonic
symbolism as I said. I think that's one of the
more like profoundly connected ones. But I did talk a
lot about Eddie from Iron Maiden, who's like a reoccurring
mascot throughout all their albums, and he's like a Musco
(21:48):
skeletal figure who you're seeing more of the human anatomy,
but you can see more of the skull, and he's
constantly changing thematic throughout the album covers and in my
personal favorite album, I think Iron Maiden Stunn in a while,
which is sends you two. You can actually see more
of this skeletal figure because he's wearing what's supposed to
(22:09):
be like a demonic samurai garb thing going on. So
don't forget about vic Rattlebones for Mega Death. Oh that's
a good one too. Yeah. I mean they actually look
very similar.
Speaker 4 (22:21):
Similar to Eddie, which we discussed when we talked about
Iron Maiden. He if he looked at the Power Slave album,
he's the one. Uh that's that is the in the
background behind the pyramid.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
That's Eddie.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
He's the character every single Iron Maiden album. I'm pretty
sure every album has some iteration of him. And he
actually comes up on stage too, Like when they're performing
they whether whether they're second to last or last songs,
they'll come out and the singer Bruce Dickinson will have
a fight with him of somehow. It's it's again, it's
a great show. If you have the If they're still touring,
(22:54):
go see them.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yep.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
But also the other band, Megadeath, who came up with Metal,
has their own mascot called vic Rattlebones. I'd say the
most famous two albums would be Peace Cells. But who's
buying where he's leaning up against a sign with bombs
going down over behind him, and I can't remember what
(23:17):
album it was that they did Hangar eighteen, but he's
like over alien bodies, you know. Show it's more of
that conspiratorial like the government knows more than they're letting
you on type thing. And one of the things with
Rattlebones is his mouth is closed. It's it's closed shut
(23:37):
with a piece of metal tying his lips to it.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
I'm glad you brought that up because that was something
I was going to talk about. And Hangar eighteen is
probably my favorite Megadeth song easily by far. Tornado of
Souls personally, Yeah, incredible, absolutely incredible. We could earn out forever. Yeah,
but that album covers also all so phenomenal as far
as the skull imagery.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Yeah, And like I said that, when it comes to Megadeath,
it's more of the conspiratorial side, like it's not the
it's not the death imagery in respect of how what
you were saying with even with Judas Priest, it's more
of like, yo, this is this being that has existed
forever and he knows all the secrets exactly.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
You see that continued theme of rebellion that you can
also see throughout like pretty much right from the get
go as far as metal was made in the UK.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
The Craftsman Online podcast probably sponsored by bricksmasons dot com
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(24:51):
let other brothers know that there's a brother behind the
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that start at just six ninety nine. That's a limited
time offer at bricks Mason's dot com. One of the
(25:22):
quotes from your article, Franklin, that really kind of stuck
with me because you make a really good tie of
the experience you say. Quote companionship one feels when facing
morality or mortality before and during a Masonic ritual is
incredibly like what metal heads can feel when listening to
a shared band at a show together. And Drew just
(25:43):
made the comment like, Hey, if you get a chance
to go see this band, you should because they rock
and you'll enjoy this stage show. So this is kind
of a twofold question. One what did you fully mean
about that? Like that shared experience, but also two kind
of to what you just talked about. Now, when I
see a brother, Now, when I meet a brother who
has an interest in metal and they come into our craft,
(26:06):
they're going to have some questions in their mind that
me as someone that grew up in you know, the
eighties and nineties and listened to country music or.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
I'm not listen, listen if you want, I'll bring my
wife in here. You can talk country music all day, Okay,
Tray Atkins is the man. I mean, let's be honest.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Would have come from a different music background, and there's
different themes and there's different ideas in that, and I
think you guys are smart enough to see where I'm
going here. It's like, what is it when metal heads
are coming into freemasonry. You're not speaking for all metal heads,
but just generally speaking, like, what are some things that
they're looking for in the craft or what appeals to
them about coming into freemasonry That may not exist in
(26:48):
the same mindset of a guy who comes in who's
an R and B fan, or was a country music fan,
or just like pop music or classical music that now
that they're in masonry, they're like being exposed to all
of these different colors of the crayon and the crayola boss.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
That is such a that's a really good question.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Specifically to that, I'll just turn around be like, hey,
do you know Cold Chamber does Fafar as a brother?
Speaker 3 (27:12):
I have no idea where it took him up. That's awesome.
Speaker 4 (27:16):
The lead singer of a Cold Chamber and Devil Driver.
Uh pretty Uh. I guess you could kind of call
it like groove metal is a brother in California.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Brad Paisley's a freemason. See see that's however, But seriously
to that point, like what are metal heads when they
come in and they go through these degree experiences they
see they walk into a I mean, my guess is
you can't shock them when they walk into a room
and there's an altar sitting there with three burning candles
(27:47):
and a volume of sacred Law. They're like, yeah, this rocks,
Like I'm totally nothing is going to surprise me about
this experience. This is what I signed up for.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
I think there's two things that immediately come to mind
when you ask those questions. So one, I think one
of the things that could be attractive as these darker
thematics as I've been drawing the parallel to in here,
you know, the iconography, the skull, the bones, the mystery,
the unknowing. You know, I think that's one. Let me see,
(28:15):
I think one thing they could be looking for as
well as the companionship the brotherhood as you would alluded
to in the article. I try to draw that parallel
like when you go to a festival, and I'm sure
Drew will be able to like note this for sure.
When you go to a concert or you go to
a festival, you're going to meet other like minded people
or else you guys wouldn't all be there to begin with.
(28:36):
So there's already this innate connection between you guys where
you can strike up these conversations. You kind of feel connected.
And I think that's what happens with freemasonry as you
go on that journey together, especially when you're in the
preparation room together, you're going through the degree together. It's
like taking that connection in that relationship that happens randomly
(28:56):
in a concert and then you're doing it in our fraternity.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
To emphasize that point, when I did go to see
Iron Maiden and Dream Theater, there were fathers there with
their kids, and you know, the common quote is, look,
you're raising them right. And there was no hatred, there
was no nothing there. It was everyone was everyone's friend
because you were all there to go see these two
amazing bands. And even even like in the extreme metal community,
(29:21):
when you get into like the really ridiculous mosh pits
and everything, like seeing Lamb of God live and watching
the Wall of Death happen, you're picking those people up.
You're not there to physically fight, You're still picking them
up from the ground after you get done mashing. It
wasn't a it wasn't a violent act for Violen's sake.
(29:43):
It was a release of energy.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
I'm so glad you bring that up.
Speaker 4 (29:46):
I mean, granted, listen, it's if everywhere there's always gonna
be bad apples, no matter where you go, whether it
be freemasonry or metal or any other community, there's always
bad apples somewhere. But if you want to just kind
of umbrel a term it, yeah, where it's very similar
to a brotherhood, a brother and sisterhood, and that's in
that respect of we're there because we love this music
and we want to enjoy it together.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
I'm not a big pit person now, neither am I
I watch when I get really daring old jump in
a couple of times, but that was one of my
first thoughts when I went to my first couple of
metal concerts, of being like, this is pretty dangerous, like
what's the intent behind these people and such? Of course,
but it's amazing to watch these people like with so
(30:30):
much energy make sure no one gets tramped, Like if
someone falls, if you even look like you're going to fall,
there's like six people picking you back up again. And
what an allegory for the brotherhood in the craft, right.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
I was just going to hit on that note, Franklin,
so thank you for teaing that up for me. I
was wanted to talk about the subcultures and then the
stereotypes and that exists in metal, but that also exists
in freemasonry when you think about it. When we started
this conversation off, I think before the everything got rolling,
Drew noted the tattoo that you have on your forearm,
(31:07):
and I looked at it. I was like, oh, that's
a pretty cool gear tattoo, and Drew like called it
out right away.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
The helm of that's the helm of Awe. I I
have a Vegevacier coin behind me.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah. Like.
Speaker 4 (31:20):
And actually, to tie all this together, brother Arci, when
I showed you this shirt, the image of this shirt,
the first one you picked up on was Viking metal
and you joked about it, and my immediate retort was, oh,
I guess you never heard of Amana marth.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Ding you'd be correct.
Speaker 4 (31:41):
And and and to tie that even further back to
the mosh pits, how ridiculously silly some of them get.
They'll get into rowing formation and row like they're rowing
of Viking or it's just silly.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
To that point.
Speaker 2 (31:56):
So that there's this subculture, right, and if you're in it,
it doesn't seem or weird or foreign at all because
these are your people. This is your flock, right, And
I think all of us can feel the same way,
whether we're walking into another lodge in our jurisdiction, or
crossing state lines or flying to another part of the
world and we walk into a Masonic lodge, You're like,
oh cool, I'm amongst brothers, I'm amongst friends like, But
(32:17):
there's also the stereotypes, and you guys are totally hitting
on that, because before we had this conversation, I would
have shared the same stereotypes about metal heads that most
people have about people that listen to country music. They
go back and forth, right, But now that I've had
this conversation, I'm like, Wow, these guys aren't just putting
skulls and symbols on their body because they look cool.
(32:37):
I mean, they do look cool, but you also know
the meaning about this, because you're not going to put
something on you that you don't know what it fully means,
because well, then you're just going to look like an
asshole and nobody wants that. Yeah, we all said, dude,
I am really digging this metal music. If you've enjoyed
this episode, you're gonna love our Subscriber Extra time that
(32:57):
we have with Brother Franklin and Metal Drew, where yes,
we talk all things metal and of course more on
how to become a writer and maybe get your article
published someday and the Fraternal Review. You'll find that in
our Subscriber Extra episode. Oh wait, here's how you can
become a subscriber extra. Glad you asked it's our goal.
This month, We're trying to hit twenty subscribers on our
(33:18):
Patreon account. That's Craftsman Online at Patreon. What you get
ad free listening, You get all of our episodes early,
and you get access to all of our subscriber extra
episodes like this week's with Brother Franklin, Rings and Metal Drew.
It only costs five bunks a month, dude, I think
you can support that. That's less to park my car
(33:39):
at lodge when I go into town. You can't even
buy food for five dollars anymore, but you can support
the Craftsman Online podcast and seriously with thank you in advance.
The link to join us on Patreon is in the
notes for this episode, or just search for Craftsman Online.
I'm right worship for Brother Michael Larsai. I guess I'll
see some of you on Thursday for the subscriber extra episode.
(34:00):
Until next time, though, let peace and harmony prevail
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