June 16, 2025 • 50 mins
On top of being a fellow Arizona native, WB Nathan Schick is a Master Ritualist and Master Lecturer under the Grand Lodge of Arizona. He joins us to discuss the mystical encounter between Moses and the burning bush. We'll explore the significance of the divine revelation, the secret name of God, and connections to esoteric traditions.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Commons. Opinions and views shared during this program are
of those individual Freemasons and do not reflect the official
position of a Grand Lodge, concordant Body, a Pendant Body,
Masonic authority, or Craftsman Online dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hey, welcome back to the Graftsman Online Podcast, the only
Masonic podcast endorsed by the Grand Lodge of New York.
We are proud to have that honor each end every week.
I'm your host, wright Worshipful Brother Michael Arse, a first
on our podcast. Now, aside from having a quite impressive
Masonic career, he is a Master Ritualist and a Master
Lecturer under the Grand Lodge of Arizona, he is also
(00:50):
a fellow Arizona native. So we're going to have to
get to the whole u of a or ASU at
some point in our conversation. As we get ready to
jump into a great episode on Moses, the Fire Bush
and the Secret Name of God, let's welcome him for
the first time to the Crassman Online Podcast. My brother
Nathan Shick.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, thanks for having me on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I've never really had another brother from Arizona. I grew
up in Yuma, or As President Bush referred to it
as Yama Arizona, known for three ten to Yuma and
a couple movies that are usually westerns. You, however, are
in what the Greater Phoenix area.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I'm in the Greater Phoenix area and I'm the current
master of Glendale Lodge number twenty three.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
And then the other big difference between the two of
us and living outside of Arizona. Now I get this
all the time. Oh, you went to school in Arizona.
You must be a sun devil. No, I'm not a
Sun devil. I went to Arizona University of Arizona. Baar down,
proud wildcat. I imagine you went to ASU Arizona State.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I teach at Arizona State University. I'm in the School
of History, Philosophy, and Religious Studies there. So I'm a
proud Sun devil. But I'm also a member in Scottish
Rite in Tucson, so I do have some love for
Tucson as well, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
And we're brothers and friends, so all is good. But
I just had that, had to have that little Arizona
banter there. The other thing that's interesting looking at your bio,
brother Nathan is a master ritualist and a Master Lecturer
under the Grand Lodge of Arizona. For those of us
outside of that grand jurisdiction, can you tell us a
little bit about those titles and what those roles are
for you.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, they're really titles of service. They indicate that I've
proven proficiency in all three of the Blue Lodge lectures
for Master Lecturer and for all of the different ritual
parts for master ritualists, so that in our jurisdiction we
have something like twenty or twenty five guys who are
(02:45):
master ritualists. And basically, once you've proven proficient in a
lodge with your district Deputy Grand Master, I'm seeing the work.
Then a panel of master ritualists comes to together and
they test the person to see their proficiency by just
(03:06):
going through anywhere in the ritual, dropping a few lines
and seeing if you can pick up the work from there,
from memory and from floor work. And the idea being
that it's a way to help support lodges that might
need a little bit of ritual support, either in last
minute situations or if it's a lodge, smaller lodge or
in a rural area. They have a roster of brothers
(03:29):
they can call upon to give that little bit of
support to make sure the ritual quality stays at a
high level. And so that's kind of the program we
have in Arizona to make sure that there's ways to
fill in the gaps in case there is need a
different lives.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
All right. So for Layman's terms, this is a brother
who knows this stuff and he's given this presentation several
times and he was fortunate. I'm fortunate enough that Brother
Nathan shared his PowerPoint with me. And if you've tuned
in for this topic Moses, the fire Bush and the
Secret Name of God as a Master Mason, there was
one word that was in there, like ooh, I want
to learn more about this, but I want to start
(04:07):
first at like kind of the main character here, Moses
and you and I were talking about this before I
hit the record button. We do hear about him later
on after the obligation part of the entered Apprentice degree. However,
it's part of that Masonic lecture where you just get
Masonic education by fire hose. So if you're really not
paying attention to the point where Moses is being described
(04:29):
as the guy who led the Israelites out and parted
the Red seas that may have gone over your head.
What was the inspiration for you to do the research
into this, and how much of the Moses origin story
did you find parallel to what you had learned as
an ea or even beyond.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I think you know that idea that what's the old
phrase of this is a system of morality veiled in
allegory and illustrated by symbols. And so when I went
through the degrees, I already was teaching in religious studies
and was familiar with some of the biblical symbols and narratives,
(05:09):
and so thinking about the illustration of symbols, and which
symbols really seemed rather important or it seemed like they
could be teased out to glean some kind of information,
a little bit of background about the nature of these
degrees and the kind of initiations that they were bringing
upon different candidates as they went through them. For this
(05:30):
particular story and the symbol, we see something really important
that's described about us commonly with all lodges. The discussion,
even though brief in the lecture, is that because of
this miraculous east wind by which the mighty deliverances wrought
for the people going from slavery to freedom. Moses Arexa
(05:52):
tabernacle to commemorate this east wind, which then is the
orientation tied to the model for King Solomon's temple in Jerusalem.
Later that is the reason that we orient all lodges
east and west, and so that symbol, then, even though
it's only brief, short mentioned, we see that it's really important.
(06:17):
It tells us something about who we are in the
sense of why all of our lodges are set up
the way that they are, and that idea goes back
at least to Anderson's first constitutions. It's very prominently mentioned
and tied with King Solomon's temple, So even to the
earliest speculative period we already see some of the mentions
(06:38):
of the importance of this symbol. So even though it's brief,
it's something that's rather important. And as you look at
the story a little bit more closely, you see this
model of communion or communication with the divine that is integral.
It really is something that maps out an idea of
how we can go from sort of the pain to
(07:00):
the sacred, or we can go from sort of the
outside world and approach the altar in a way that
might be universal or at least very common.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
And as we've shared many times on the podcast, Freemasonry
is not a religion, but there are definitely a lot
of Biblical stories that are woven into the lessons that
you'll hear in our degrees. We open with the volume
of Sacred Law or the Holy Bible. On our altars,
we have prayers, we bow to the name of God
(07:30):
or Deity or the supreme or great architect of the universe.
It's interesting, though, because you had mentioned the scottishwrit and
I kind of like stuck in my head, and as
we hear this small part of Moses, which is before
one of my favorite parts in the EA degree, which
is the point within a circle, a tiny little paragraph
that we get some of the deepest Masonic wisdom, that
(07:50):
explanation of Moses leading people kind of serving as the
quote unquote foundation of building your Masonic symbolic temple. Did
you find any connections at least in the Scottish right
when it comes to the Royal Secret.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Well, yeah, so we'll talk about this maybe a little
bit later on, but part of the model we see
in the Blue Lodge degrees has to do with the
notion of the lost word, the nature of the word
being lost, and what that might imply for us even
today as a model for that idea of communion with
the divine and a disconnect when we lose communication communion
(08:29):
with the divine. And then when we look at the
whote degrees, the so called higher degrees royal art and
including within Scottish Right, you get a model for how
we might approach and eventually regain this kind of communion
or communication, this regaining of the word in that sense.
(08:50):
And Moses in some of the degrees in Scottish Right
features as a character and we see the kind of
ideas illustrated in the Biblical narrative, but then also give
us some kind of map or model by which this
communion can be re established. So Moses has as a
character you know, brief mentioned maybe in Blue Lodge, but
(09:12):
has a per perhaps more prominent place in some of
the high degrees even as we experience them today.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
All right, so you mentioned the lost Word. Your presentation
opens up with the review of the Regi's manuscript. You
talk about the Pigpen cipher, which I've literally only heard
about one time, but it's how Mason's concealed as you
talk about the secret word, so to kind of kick
things off here, why is having knowledge of the secret
(09:38):
name of God important? What's the value to that?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
If this is an analogy, right, We've got something that
is veiled in allegory. So we're looking at this as
some kind of analogy to an experience, something that's deeper.
And so the reason that I start with the historic
model of freemasonry that you see in the Regius manuscript
(10:04):
and in the Old Charges, you see a couple of
things in the Regius manuscripts very inventive idea that Masons
see a limitation and it's caused by a major historic event.
The plague takes place and wipes out half of Europe,
and that includes skilled laborers, that includes the stone masons
(10:26):
who are skilled labors. And as a result, the cost
of labor goes up, and there's a limit place to
try and limit the Masons talking to one another about
what the cost of labor or stone walls and cathedrals
and castles is going to be. But the Masons, inventively
(10:46):
in the Regis Manuscript trace their lineage back to King
Athelstan and King Athelston is the sort of bounding figure
of the kingdom means that the aristocrats who are hiring
these Stone Masons are likewise tying their own lineage, their
own authority back to athist And so it means that
(11:08):
because the regis describes Athleston as being a lover of Masons,
a supporter of Masons, and giving them the right to
meet annually wherever they choose, it means that if the
people hiring them, their aristocracy of the day says that
they don't have this right, undermines their own authority and
(11:28):
their own lineage back to Athleston as well. So very
brilliant kind of move that they place themselves within this
kind of lineage, and the notion of lineage is becomes
really important. You see it in the Moses narrative. You
see it also though for Masons, you know, all the
way through Anderson's constitutions and beyond. And so the idea
(11:49):
here being that if they have the right to meet
annually a grand communication, it means that they can send
one master of each working through to meet at this
annual communication, this grand communication, find out what the working
conditions are, which people are hiring, what the cost of
(12:11):
labor should be, disciplinary actions, all that kind of stuff.
But uniquely around the early sixteen hundreds there starts to
be this reference to the Mason's word, and we see
a variety of these references that are still existent, and
they have this almost magical quality that people are kind
(12:32):
of concerned about the Mason's word. It's caused a bit
of a stir at first, and one of the descriptions
about it is that they're able to communicate at a
distance and cause each other to bring aid. They can
help each other through this kind of whatever this secret word,
this Mason word is, and so it causes this kind
(12:53):
of stir throughout the sixteen hundreds, and you get an
increasing number of references all the way up to the
premier grand logic London's establishment. And so back to this
annual or grand communication. In my book, I talk a
little bit about it as sort of a play on words.
We use this annual communication or grand communication as our meeting,
(13:16):
but as a double entendre, it means our potential communication
with the divine, a grand communication in that sense, right,
So it's an allegory of sorts in that way. But
what I paus it here is that the Masons are
able to communicate with one another. After the annual communication,
(13:37):
their grand communication, the masters go back to their working
crews and they've been given a word, a password of sorts,
a kind of code word. With the Mason's cipher, it's
a very simple cipher system hashtag symbol, all the letters
put into it, X for the remaining letters. You can
(13:57):
even use it as a font in most word process
and write out your message that way, and it works
without it being a code. Just as a little aside
here that's maybe of interest. I know of one lodge
in Washington, Esoterica Lodge that uses the Mason cipher as
(14:19):
an invitation to their candidates for to their degrees, as
a kind of way to get them in the mode
of thinking about the cipher system, the Mason cipher and
things like that. So it's a really neat way to
kind of make a little bit unique lodge culture that
uses this historic model of the Mason cipher. But the
(14:43):
Mason cipher then as a standard cipher, you know, is
easy enough. You just you know, figure out the different letters.
But if you use it with a password, let's say
you know, kat c at is a cipher system, you
pull out those three letters c AT, and then you
move all the letters as the regular cipher and put
that password as the last letters, so that if you
(15:06):
have the password, you can decipher the system and the message.
If not, then it makes it much more difficult to decipher,
and it would take you a lot more time. So
that you know, in this operative period, if a you know,
one master can wants to send a message that they're
not being paid, they're being poorly treated by someone, they
(15:28):
can send that message with the code word to other
masters and whoever might you know find the message won't
be able to decipher it unless they have the codeword,
so they can communicate at a distance safely and come
to one another's a But it also implies something else
kind of interesting that Let's say something happens that the
(15:50):
master of each working crew suddenly dies during the year
before the next ad of communication, any messages they might receive,
the master's word has been lost and they won't be
able to decipher it easily. So communication has been lost.
And so as an analogy here, if we lose the word,
(16:11):
we lose communication. And in the sense of that, you know,
double on taundre with the grand communication, we lose communication
or communion with the divine if we lose the word,
and so that's sort of the reason that I take
a look at that kind of background and model as
an allegory then or something larger our own individual communion
(16:34):
with the divine. And then when we look at the
story with Moses, we see some kind of model for
communion with the divine.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
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(18:07):
I love that you answered the question that way, especially
the bullet points I jotted them down here, that the
secret name, the Master's word, the lost word, whatever you
want to use. That it lends credence to for credibility
so that they could conduct commerce basically, but also that
they could communicate and connect with each other. It's less
about the fact that, hey, I know the secret name
(18:29):
of God, and now, like Aladdin's genie, I could summon
him to make him work for me because I know
God's because you can easily see those that didn't study
the Bible and understand why that would almost be impossible
as a human being to be able to pronounce that.
But I love the way that you've explained that. I
wonder how many brothers have come to your presentation thinking, oh,
(18:52):
he's going to give us the secret name and explain
what all of this means, like I'm going to be
able to know God's name after tonight.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Right, And I think you know in discussing that we
usually in our question and answer and communication about that
talk about the fact that ultimately these are the mysteries
of masonry, and that the ultimate secrets are incommunicable in
a direct human to human way. That's the nature of
(19:19):
the mysteries. That's what makes them so powerful and potent.
That the true mysteries are again by allegory, we can
give you a model that's similar and hopefully then for
each Mason, if it is deeply impressed upon the mind,
it then leads to the real communication that is ineffable.
(19:41):
It's not something we can describe in that kind of
direct way. So even though we're talking about this secret name,
it's not like we can give it to you at
the end, for you know, the cost of admission. I
can suddenly tell you here's the secret name that you
actually came for.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Right, Well, speaking of names, you're going to get to
switch from brother Hat to Professor Hat here, because I'm
pretty sure I'm gonna butcher this one. But when you
get into your program, you shed a lot of insight
into the biblical story of Moses, and we find him
tending sheep and encountering the burning bush. And this is
the location that I think I'm going to say incorrectly,
(20:18):
but is it Mount Herb or Hrrb right?
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Mount Herb? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Who that one?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
In your presentation, what's the significance of this location? And
what does the text about Moses's reaction to this? Wonder?
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah? So the story talks about about Moses tending sheep
in the wilderness, right, and he goes all the way
to the other side of the wilderness to Mount Horb
and which is described as the mountain of God. So
there's a sacred geography here for the people first hearing
the story in antiquity, right, they know the of the land,
(21:00):
so to speak, and they know some of the places
that are being described. So it's very real, it's agible
in a sense for people in antiquity first hearing these stories.
But even as a kind of mythic geography, we can
all imagine this idea of going through the wilderness and
then being brought to a place that's mountain but is
(21:21):
no ordinary mountain. It's a mountain of broad and so
we can imagine even you know, sitting around the campfire,
this story being told as an oral tradition and people hearing.
And then Moses goes through the wilderness all the way
to the other side of the wilderness and comes to
this mountain, the Mountain of God, and the audience immediately knows, well,
(21:42):
something big is going to happen here. Obviously, right, it's epic,
It's got gravity to it as a story. So in
that sense, the geography you know, gives us lends to
that part of the storytelling. But also a little later on,
God says to Moses when Moses is feeling a little
inadequate about his ability to convey sort of the message
(22:05):
from God. God says that one of the signs that
God is with Moses is that at a certain point
God will lead the people to the mountain and they'll
worship God there, and that's how Moses will know God's
with So mountain also plays sort of a important role
in the story in that sense, right, But just further,
(22:26):
the notion of going through the wilderness and eventually coming
to that place where communion is possible, gives us a
kind of model that we see in freemasonry a little
bit through the Blue Lodge degrees, the sort of chaotic
nature of the degrees as you go from the profane
outside world outside of the Masonic temple and then slowly
(22:48):
but surely making your way to the altar. There's something
there that's maybe akin in an kind of allegory of
going through the wilderness before coming to that place where
you might come face to face with the divine.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And I could see why master Masons are going to
get a lot out of this program because Moses, when
you think about it, his relationship with God or Deity
or the Supreme Architect, he kind of goes from being
a seeker to becoming a servant or protector of God's people.
And that's kind of part of the story that is
being oppressed upon us as Mason's as we go from
(23:21):
entered apprentice to master.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Mason, right, and that that process is not an easy one.
Moses is very reticent, very hesitant to take on that
kind of mantle all the way to the point of
effectively kind of angering to Divine by saying that he
doesn't think he's up to the task but eventually becomes
(23:44):
a servant along with his brother Aaron, and is able
to cause a real transformation in his community and in history.
And so I think for us similarly that knowing that
that transformation is not necessarily easy. It's difficult, and there's work,
hard work. That's sort of the notion of us laboring
(24:07):
in the quarry and having that transformation take place from
the rough Ashler to you know, the perfected Ashler is
not going to be a smooth transition necessarily, but the
model of Moses's story shows us the outcome that's possible.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
What I love about presentations like yours, brother, is not
only do you get into something that I'm like, oh
I love this. I get some historical relevance, I get
some Masonic education, but I also get to expand my
personal knowledge base. You introduced the concept of and I'm
going to turn to you know, professor Nathan. Here is
it thea mania? Am I saying that correctly?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Right?
Speaker 1 (24:45):
So?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Like theos right as God or divine right, and mania
like mania like madness. So THEO mania is divine madness. Right.
And so when we think of you know, the story
about Moses that come from antiquity, from the ancient world
and how they're thinking about the potential for communion, for
(25:10):
divine communion. You know, Moses hears sees this wonder, sees
this fire bush, this bush that's on fire but is
not consumed, and here's a voice, and the voice says
his name Moses, Moses, and he responds, here I am
(25:30):
if today. I mean, you can think about this. You know,
in a contemporary setting, if you go out hiking with
your friends, you see a wonder, there's a bush burning.
Suddenly it starts talking to you, and it says Nathan, Nathan,
and I'm like, yeah, here I am. And my friends
are with me and are like, what's going on? You're
hearing voices and you're talking back, right, I don't necessarily
(25:54):
look at that as positive, as a good thing. In
our contemporary society, we'd see that as clinic and as
mental illness, as something not healthy, not good. Right, we
had mentioned almost immediately describe it that way. But in antiquity,
in the ancient world, that's not the view. And so
when we look at Plato and the Padris is where
(26:18):
this is described by the character of Socrates of divine madness,
and it's described very much as these are gifts, this
is divine gifts. These are moments where the human is
out of their mind. That's the being clearly given by Plato.
But in a good way. It's an opportunity where the
(26:40):
rational mind is kind of overcome so that some kind
of real transformation can be initiated. So when we think of,
you know, initiations in this kind of way as a
catalyst for real transformation, you know, looking at the way
that Plato describes this as a model in antiquity, there
are ways of looking at divine madness in very positive ways,
(27:05):
and it gives us a typology of these four kinds
of divine madness and the gifts that they imply. The
different kinds of gifts we get. You get prophetic, as
you know, the oracle a Delphi, very famous example of
kind of foresight, so that you can choose how you're
going to behave, or policies for a polity to decide
(27:26):
how they're going to move forward. So that's one kind
of divine madness that would be a gift. You get
initiatory divine madness connected with Dionysus, this kind of notion
of within a ritual setting or mystic rights, a kind
of overcoming of the rational mind for real transformation in
(27:48):
which theorgy, theoretical rights and the like might kind of
divine communion. In that sense, you get some of the world,
maybe a little more familiar with today, the poetic that
connected to the music, and so these are inspirational music lyrics,
that kind of stuff in antiquity usually connected with the Greek,
(28:08):
with wine, women in song, but in contemporary time, with
you know, recorded music and rock and roll, we get
drug sex and rock and roll. I mean the kind
of divine madness in which we get lyrics and music
that we appreciate and love that when we look at
(28:29):
the people who made that music, we would say they're
out of their mind on drugs or whatever, but they're
producing songs or lyrics or albums that we all love
and they become classics. So we're familiar with that kind
of divine madness. And the last one that's described is
erotic love euros in that sense of romantic or sexual
(28:53):
kind of madness where a person falls madly in love
and starts behaving very differently than they otherwise would because
they've fallen for someone. But sometimes that's really for the
best in their own personal life, they develop relationship or
something along those lines. So that kind of divine madness
is potentially beneficial as well. So we see this typology
(29:16):
that's given by Plato as an examples of madness, but
divine madness that provide real gifts, real opportunities in which
the person is out of their mind but for beneficial
things for themselves or their community. So in Greek we
get that sort of term of stasis and x stasis,
(29:38):
So stasis in the sense of stability and x stasis
outside of your normal mind and behaviors that we get
the term ecstasy that comes from that. So when we
think of ecstatic rights and those kind of notions of
moving one out of the regular form of mind for
this kind of communion or divine madness that potentially brings
(29:59):
these kinds of gifts, the question becomes how do we
know the difference between madness just garden variety, being out
of your mind and divine madness. And the reason the
story with Moses becomes interesting is it gives us a
model or map in which Moses does something of a test,
(30:19):
looks for proofs to see have I just been out
in the wilderness for too long. Maybe I'm dehydrated or something,
I'm losing my mind, or is this actual communion? Divine communion,
this is divine madness that's actually bringing about communication that
will be transforming. So that's what's interesting about the story
of Moses here because the story shows that it has
(30:43):
some proofs to it and leads to real transformation for
the community.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
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(31:46):
So one point we talk about the proofs is when
he questions God about his name, and this is part
of the when we talk about the secret name of God.
And I've heard this in Blue Lodge I've heard this
in New York right and Scottish write as well, as
they all tried to provide explanation on further paths for
the substitute word or other lost words that could possibly
(32:09):
tie to deity. And one that I've heard that you
mentioned in your presentation is the significance of I am
as the name. Can you give our listener a little
bit more on what that's about?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, I think first, just to back that up a
little bit, that first interaction that Moses has when he
hears the voice and he starts talking back with the
fire bush, there is a moment there that the voice
indicates something important for us. The voice says, bluck off
(32:43):
your come no further, bluck off your shoes for the
ground upon which you walk, even though my look like
regular earth, regular ground is not. It's Adesh, it's set apart,
it's holy. We usually translate that, and so in our
Masonic ritual then we have a very clear symbolic tie
in there of if the ground upon which you walk,
(33:06):
if you imagine it to be called esher, set apart,
pluck off your shoes before you try approaching the divine
to communicate, right, So it gives us a very clear
cut sort of description of one sort of indicator there.
The other part, though, then, is that the voice says,
with the generic term in Hebrew l God in that
(33:29):
generic sense like we use it in English with a
capital G. This lineage again back to that notion of lineages.
The boy says, I am the God of your father,
the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac Jacob. So
provides the right lineage, gives the right names, but doesn't
use the name that is, the secret name known only
to the community. It's exclusive in that sense, it's protective.
(33:53):
It makes sure that the people who know the name
are true versus whether if this other sort of voice
kind of indicates well, I'm the god of this, that
or the other, how do you know that's true? Maybe
that's true. Maybe you're just out in the wilderness too
long and losing your mind, right, And so there's this
(34:13):
kind of back and forth where Moses says, well, that's
cool and all, but if I go back to the
Israelites and tell them I started talking to this wonder
this fire bush, They're gonna say, yeah, maybe you've just
lost your mind just regular. And so there's this kind
of response that Moses looks for and the voice of
(34:37):
the divine first gives this particular response that says, hey,
I am that I am. Tell them I am that
I am is. I Am is the one that you
communicated with, that sent you. This is one of the
names of God that's been described and talked about a
(34:58):
great deal over the centuries, and is in some ways
maybe best thought of in a mystical sense. It's very
strongly indicating something about being I Am. There's almost an
indication that Moses knows, by the very potency, the very
(35:18):
majesty of the interaction, that this is legitimate, this is real.
And so that's the first part. But then it's the
that doesn't seem to satisfy, or at least the way
that the story is told. Moses doesn't suddenly respond and say, okay,
that's good enough for me. So the divine the voice
(35:39):
continues on. But that first voice, that first name is
given as I Am, and so that's one of the
names then that we get out of this particular communication.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
M You also mentioned that he's got to kind of
prove to others that he's not crazy, but he's crazy
in a good way, right, And now he's got to
convince a bunch of people that, you know, he has
now gotten this authority, he now has this relationship, he
has this connection now with a divine being. And he's
got to convince the Israelites, he's got to convince the
(36:12):
Pharaoh that he's not the guy who's just out talking
of bushes in the desert and going nuts. And he
does this through signs. And this is a part is
a Mason where our ears perk up and we go, oh, signs.
So what are these signs and what are they? What
do they symbolize?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Right? So the follow up part with the communication of
the names is that God says the secret name, the
four letter name of God, the tetragramaton yoda head babe.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
And.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Says not just God in the sense of l or
the generic sense, says the name, the secret name, and
that's sort of the proof positive, and says this will
be the down through the generations that God will be
known by. So we get the proper name given there.
In the English translation, including to King James, the translation
(37:13):
of that word is usually Lord, right, the Lord, rather
than giving that secret name. But in history and Jewish history,
the development of the special name, the secret name, the
fore letter name of God becomes important for the development
of practices at Solomon's Temple, and so by tradition, the
(37:35):
notion is that only the High Priest of Jerusalem will
say this secret name of God, and only after the
high holidays, the ten day period kicked off from Russiashana,
in which people have penitence, they make amends for the
things that they've done over the past year. And then
on you four day of Atonement, after everyone's a tone
(37:58):
gotten right with their neighbor, then and only then the
high priests goes into the temple, and not just into
the temple, into this one part of the temple that
is the Holy of holies, the Adesh hakodeshim, the part
that's set apart within the place set apart, so completely
(38:18):
separated from the profane world in that sense, and then
says this secret name. And so by conveying the name
to Moses, this is sort of the moment where Moses sees,
this is the proof positive, this is the secret name.
But even still Moses knows and says to God, if
I go back and tell them I heard the secret name,
(38:39):
there's still not going to be convinced. They're going to
just say, oh, so you heard the secret name when
you were hearing voices out in the desert. Great. You
know that doesn't mean anything. It just means you started
hearing the secret name, just like anything else. And so
this is where the signs come into play. And these
signs are a little bit strange when you see them,
(38:59):
maybe on the surface of the story. Usually when I
tell the story in person, I tie part of this
to the Adam and Eve narrative in Genesis, with the
garden of Eden, the serpent and the eating of the
forbidden fruit that leads to the covering. They really realize
(39:19):
their nakedness. God returns and it's the first time, the
only time in the Biblical translations, in the King James
version that uses the word apron, and they wear it
as a loin cloth. And as a result, we wear
aprons that are effectively covering one part of the body.
So when we look here at the signs in the
(39:42):
Mosaic story, I'll just say that in person presentations I
talk about this more as euphemisms, these different parts as euphemisms,
And so I guess I'll leave it to the listeners
imagine nation to understand the symbols in that sense when
(40:03):
we read it from maybe a surface level to the
way that it can be read a little more subtly.
So that kind of gives us maybe an indication here.
But the first sign, God says, all right, we'll take
your rod. Now, throw it on the ground, and it
turns to a snake. It turns limp right. Moses runs away,
and then God says, all right, now take it by
(40:26):
the root, take it by its tail, and all of
a sudden it becomes rigid, it becomes stiff again, and
it becomes a rod. And God's like, all right, that's
a there's the first trick. It's the first sign, right,
And so that's one sign that's going to be an
important one that they utilize. Moses and Aaron utilize the
sort of turning the rod to a snake or serpent
(40:47):
becomes one of the signs. But God says, if that
doesn't convince them, the second sign, take your yawd your hand,
and I'll just say the word yod in Hebrew is
probably the most common euphemism for penis in and so
there's lots of different stories in the Tanach or Old
(41:08):
Testament in which you can read it as yod or
hand on one level, but if you read it again carefully,
you see that there's something else being implied, and sometimes
not very subtle.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Right.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
So here the story says, take your yod, now, put
it into your cloak. Now pull it out, and it's
going to turn completely white, like white as snow. Right now,
If it's your hand, you can understand why that might
be a little bit concerning to the people, the Israelites
when they see this. If it's not just your hand,
(41:45):
you can understand why it's maybe a bigger deal and
more convincing to them of oh man, we've got to
do something right back to normal, right, And so.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Especially for the user himself.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
If this is being given as an example to all
of the people, and you know, there's going to very
quickly be like, what do we got to do to
get this back? And then the third sign is take
water from the nile, pour it on dry ground, and
it turns to blood. Right, So these three signs, then
you know he can read them on the surfaces one
sort of narrative. But I think if you read it
(42:18):
as these kind of euphemisms, you get a different layer
of the story that maybe helps to tie into the
part of the story that comes immediately afterward, where Moses
is traveling, he's nearly killed by God and that kind
of stuff. There's some a little bit more explanation and
understanding that comes when we look at the story from
another level there. But these signs again are meant to
(42:39):
be proofs right that Moses isn't just going mad out
in the wilderness. He's actually had real communication and it's
not just the word or name, but there are proofs
that he can show as proof positive that this is
real and it's real communication.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
While you're telling the story, I'm thinking of probably the
most famous person I know that's demonstrated as Charleston Heston
and going through those things and then you know he
ends with my people go. But now I'm thinking of
like in the Bible, if you saw these things, we
would think of it as magic in our minds, like
this is unexplained and it definitely would really jostle your
(43:20):
own belief system and like what is going on here?
How does this person have the powers to do this?
It gets your attention, and that's it's kind of what
this all means. As freemasons, though you know, we're not
giving you secrets away on the podcast. We've never been
about that, but I'm sure there's a lot of brothers
that are sitting here thinking like, oh, okay. We talk
about this in each of our degrees. We talk about
the meaning of symbolisms and posture and why we stand
(43:43):
this way and why this is done. And so much
of our degrees is tied to stories and lessons in
and from the Old Testament. This is all kind of
making sense when we talk about the initiatic, the obligation
part of our degree system.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah, So to point out that idea that it might
be magic, and it looks like magic in the narrative
when Moses and Aaron come before the court of Pharaoh,
they perform these signs and Pharaoh's you know why, it's
sometimes described as wise men or the they're described as magicians,
(44:24):
as people doing the same kinds of things to see. Well,
can they match with their Egyptian knowledge of the unseen?
Can they do the same kinds of signs? And they
perform similar signs. But it also illustrates that the signs
being shown by Moses and Aaron are greater by magnitude
(44:44):
and are able to literally swallow up the magic that
is being done by the Egyptian magicians and poorly. This
is meant to show that things that might seem miraculous
to us are possible through this kind of divine communication
and this kind of knowledge and understanding of the divine plan.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Now, I'm sure I'm not the only brother who's heard
you tell the story. I wish i'd actually got a
chance to see your presentation or program. But I'm kind
of coming to the conclusion here, And I'm sure you've
gotten this question before, but do you kind of feel
that maybe Moses was one of the original Freemasons?
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Well, yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on these lineages.
Like I said that we describe all the way from
the Old.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
Charges through the the constitutions of Anderson and beyond always
have a reference to Moses.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
And there is in the description of the story itself
the Jewish people Israelites are building with brick, and that's
part of the story as well. And so this notion
that there is some thing about how Moses is leading
the people, and the connection to the lineage that's described
(46:06):
always includes Moses as a part of this lineage. So
we can see that Moses is at least a very
important part of that lineage of the earliest of what
we think of as Mason's through time.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
This has been one of the most eye opening episodes
we've had this year on Masonic education. Really getting into
exploring the ancient mysteries is what we're all about here
on the Craftsman Online podcast. So worschiful brother, I'm going
to get you out of here with this question. You've
put a lot of yourself into this work, into this research,
and thank you again for sharing it with us. What
(46:42):
personally resonates you or resonates with you about this story
and what are you kind of hoping our listener takes
away from hearing this discussion tonight.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
I think the fact that this story is so ubiquitous,
it's so widespread in our society that if you talk
about the Burning Bush or Moses in the Burning Bush,
and the Passover and Exodus and the parting of the
Red Sea, even if people aren't religious, they know some
(47:15):
bits of the story, so that when you say the
Burning Bush, even people who aren't religious, just as a
part of our cultural literacy, will know that it's about
divine communion and a story of that divine communion taking place.
It's transformative that changes history in a meaningful way. But
I think most people don't pause to consider the experience experientially,
(47:41):
what that might be like to suddenly come upon a
wonder and have divine communion, and how terrifying, the awe
awesome and awful, the majesty of that kind of experience
of divine communion, and the feeling that Moses has of
of feeling inadequate, feeling rather small and incapable of playing
(48:04):
a part in this plan and being able to act
as a servant. And yet in the story there is
a clear indication that God, through Moses, and through cooperation
with someone he trusts, his brother Aaron, is able to
work together, that Aaron has some skills that Moses may not,
(48:27):
and that together they're able to, with the understanding of
the divine plan, cause real transformation in their community. And
I hope that that idea that you might at times
feel like you don't have the skills to cause real
transformation by yourself in your neighborhood or in your community.
(48:49):
For brothers, when you come to lodge and you see
the other brothers there who do have other skill sets
that you maybe don't possess that together, working on different
projects in your neighborhood and in your community, you can
cause great transformations to take place. And this story really
gives us that kind of model for how that has
(49:12):
taken place in the past that we can apply to
our lives and to our lodges today. So that's one
of the things I hope that even though we talk
about symbolism and history and some of these different connections
in a practical way, I hope that brothers see that
particular connection and see it as applicable in their communities and.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
In your Thanks again to Brother Shick for his time
on the Craftsman Online podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode
and you want to hear some more, make sure you
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That's how you can be certain that next week's episode
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(49:56):
of our seven day free trial on Patreon with Craftsmen Online. Yeah,
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show and never have to listen to me do another
annoying commercial again. I'm right, worshipful brother Michael Arse, You
know I always dig starting my Monday morning with you,
looking forward to next week already until then, but peace
and harmony prevail
The Commons. Opinions and views shared during this program are
of those individual Freemasons and do not reflect the official
position of a Grand Lodge, concordant Body, a Pendant Body,
Masonic authority, or Craftsman Online dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Hey, welcome back to the Graftsman Online Podcast, the only
Masonic podcast endorsed by the Grand Lodge of New York.
We are proud to have that honor each end every week.
I'm your host, wright Worshipful Brother Michael Arse, a first
on our podcast. Now, aside from having a quite impressive
Masonic career, he is a Master Ritualist and a Master
Lecturer under the Grand Lodge of Arizona, he is also
(00:50):
a fellow Arizona native. So we're going to have to
get to the whole u of a or ASU at
some point in our conversation. As we get ready to
jump into a great episode on Moses, the Fire Bush
and the Secret Name of God, let's welcome him for
the first time to the Crassman Online Podcast. My brother
Nathan Shick.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yeah, thanks for having me on the show.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I've never really had another brother from Arizona. I grew
up in Yuma, or As President Bush referred to it
as Yama Arizona, known for three ten to Yuma and
a couple movies that are usually westerns. You, however, are
in what the Greater Phoenix area.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
I'm in the Greater Phoenix area and I'm the current
master of Glendale Lodge number twenty three.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
And then the other big difference between the two of
us and living outside of Arizona. Now I get this
all the time. Oh, you went to school in Arizona.
You must be a sun devil. No, I'm not a
Sun devil. I went to Arizona University of Arizona. Baar down,
proud wildcat. I imagine you went to ASU Arizona State.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I teach at Arizona State University. I'm in the School
of History, Philosophy, and Religious Studies there. So I'm a
proud Sun devil. But I'm also a member in Scottish
Rite in Tucson, so I do have some love for
Tucson as well, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
And we're brothers and friends, so all is good. But
I just had that, had to have that little Arizona
banter there. The other thing that's interesting looking at your bio,
brother Nathan is a master ritualist and a Master Lecturer
under the Grand Lodge of Arizona. For those of us
outside of that grand jurisdiction, can you tell us a
little bit about those titles and what those roles are
for you.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
Yeah, they're really titles of service. They indicate that I've
proven proficiency in all three of the Blue Lodge lectures
for Master Lecturer and for all of the different ritual
parts for master ritualists, so that in our jurisdiction we
have something like twenty or twenty five guys who are
(02:45):
master ritualists. And basically, once you've proven proficient in a
lodge with your district Deputy Grand Master, I'm seeing the work.
Then a panel of master ritualists comes to together and
they test the person to see their proficiency by just
(03:06):
going through anywhere in the ritual, dropping a few lines
and seeing if you can pick up the work from there,
from memory and from floor work. And the idea being
that it's a way to help support lodges that might
need a little bit of ritual support, either in last
minute situations or if it's a lodge, smaller lodge or
in a rural area. They have a roster of brothers
(03:29):
they can call upon to give that little bit of
support to make sure the ritual quality stays at a
high level. And so that's kind of the program we
have in Arizona to make sure that there's ways to
fill in the gaps in case there is need a
different lives.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
All right. So for Layman's terms, this is a brother
who knows this stuff and he's given this presentation several
times and he was fortunate. I'm fortunate enough that Brother
Nathan shared his PowerPoint with me. And if you've tuned
in for this topic Moses, the fire Bush and the
Secret Name of God as a Master Mason, there was
one word that was in there, like ooh, I want
to learn more about this, but I want to start
(04:07):
first at like kind of the main character here, Moses
and you and I were talking about this before I
hit the record button. We do hear about him later
on after the obligation part of the entered Apprentice degree. However,
it's part of that Masonic lecture where you just get
Masonic education by fire hose. So if you're really not
paying attention to the point where Moses is being described
(04:29):
as the guy who led the Israelites out and parted
the Red seas that may have gone over your head.
What was the inspiration for you to do the research
into this, and how much of the Moses origin story
did you find parallel to what you had learned as
an ea or even beyond.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
I think you know that idea that what's the old
phrase of this is a system of morality veiled in
allegory and illustrated by symbols. And so when I went
through the degrees, I already was teaching in religious studies
and was familiar with some of the biblical symbols and narratives,
(05:09):
and so thinking about the illustration of symbols, and which
symbols really seemed rather important or it seemed like they
could be teased out to glean some kind of information,
a little bit of background about the nature of these
degrees and the kind of initiations that they were bringing
upon different candidates as they went through them. For this
(05:30):
particular story and the symbol, we see something really important
that's described about us commonly with all lodges. The discussion,
even though brief in the lecture, is that because of
this miraculous east wind by which the mighty deliverances wrought
for the people going from slavery to freedom. Moses Arexa
(05:52):
tabernacle to commemorate this east wind, which then is the
orientation tied to the model for King Solomon's temple in Jerusalem.
Later that is the reason that we orient all lodges
east and west, and so that symbol, then, even though
it's only brief, short mentioned, we see that it's really important.
(06:17):
It tells us something about who we are in the
sense of why all of our lodges are set up
the way that they are, and that idea goes back
at least to Anderson's first constitutions. It's very prominently mentioned
and tied with King Solomon's temple, So even to the
earliest speculative period we already see some of the mentions
(06:38):
of the importance of this symbol. So even though it's brief,
it's something that's rather important. And as you look at
the story a little bit more closely, you see this
model of communion or communication with the divine that is integral.
It really is something that maps out an idea of
how we can go from sort of the pain to
(07:00):
the sacred, or we can go from sort of the
outside world and approach the altar in a way that
might be universal or at least very common.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
And as we've shared many times on the podcast, Freemasonry
is not a religion, but there are definitely a lot
of Biblical stories that are woven into the lessons that
you'll hear in our degrees. We open with the volume
of Sacred Law or the Holy Bible. On our altars,
we have prayers, we bow to the name of God
(07:30):
or Deity or the supreme or great architect of the universe.
It's interesting, though, because you had mentioned the scottishwrit and
I kind of like stuck in my head, and as
we hear this small part of Moses, which is before
one of my favorite parts in the EA degree, which
is the point within a circle, a tiny little paragraph
that we get some of the deepest Masonic wisdom, that
(07:50):
explanation of Moses leading people kind of serving as the
quote unquote foundation of building your Masonic symbolic temple. Did
you find any connections at least in the Scottish right
when it comes to the Royal Secret.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Well, yeah, so we'll talk about this maybe a little
bit later on, but part of the model we see
in the Blue Lodge degrees has to do with the
notion of the lost word, the nature of the word
being lost, and what that might imply for us even
today as a model for that idea of communion with
the divine and a disconnect when we lose communication communion
(08:29):
with the divine. And then when we look at the
whote degrees, the so called higher degrees royal art and
including within Scottish Right, you get a model for how
we might approach and eventually regain this kind of communion
or communication, this regaining of the word in that sense.
(08:50):
And Moses in some of the degrees in Scottish Right
features as a character and we see the kind of
ideas illustrated in the Biblical narrative, but then also give
us some kind of map or model by which this
communion can be re established. So Moses has as a
character you know, brief mentioned maybe in Blue Lodge, but
(09:12):
has a per perhaps more prominent place in some of
the high degrees even as we experience them today.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
All right, so you mentioned the lost Word. Your presentation
opens up with the review of the Regi's manuscript. You
talk about the Pigpen cipher, which I've literally only heard
about one time, but it's how Mason's concealed as you
talk about the secret word, so to kind of kick
things off here, why is having knowledge of the secret
(09:38):
name of God important? What's the value to that?
Speaker 3 (09:41):
If this is an analogy, right, We've got something that
is veiled in allegory. So we're looking at this as
some kind of analogy to an experience, something that's deeper.
And so the reason that I start with the historic
model of freemasonry that you see in the Regius manuscript
(10:04):
and in the Old Charges, you see a couple of
things in the Regius manuscripts very inventive idea that Masons
see a limitation and it's caused by a major historic event.
The plague takes place and wipes out half of Europe,
and that includes skilled laborers, that includes the stone masons
(10:26):
who are skilled labors. And as a result, the cost
of labor goes up, and there's a limit place to
try and limit the Masons talking to one another about
what the cost of labor or stone walls and cathedrals
and castles is going to be. But the Masons, inventively
(10:46):
in the Regis Manuscript trace their lineage back to King
Athelstan and King Athelston is the sort of bounding figure
of the kingdom means that the aristocrats who are hiring
these Stone Masons are likewise tying their own lineage, their
own authority back to athist And so it means that
(11:08):
because the regis describes Athleston as being a lover of Masons,
a supporter of Masons, and giving them the right to
meet annually wherever they choose, it means that if the
people hiring them, their aristocracy of the day says that
they don't have this right, undermines their own authority and
(11:28):
their own lineage back to Athleston as well. So very
brilliant kind of move that they place themselves within this
kind of lineage, and the notion of lineage is becomes
really important. You see it in the Moses narrative. You
see it also though for Masons, you know, all the
way through Anderson's constitutions and beyond. And so the idea
(11:49):
here being that if they have the right to meet
annually a grand communication, it means that they can send
one master of each working through to meet at this
annual communication, this grand communication, find out what the working
conditions are, which people are hiring, what the cost of
(12:11):
labor should be, disciplinary actions, all that kind of stuff.
But uniquely around the early sixteen hundreds there starts to
be this reference to the Mason's word, and we see
a variety of these references that are still existent, and
they have this almost magical quality that people are kind
(12:32):
of concerned about the Mason's word. It's caused a bit
of a stir at first, and one of the descriptions
about it is that they're able to communicate at a
distance and cause each other to bring aid. They can
help each other through this kind of whatever this secret word,
this Mason word is, and so it causes this kind
(12:53):
of stir throughout the sixteen hundreds, and you get an
increasing number of references all the way up to the
premier grand logic London's establishment. And so back to this
annual or grand communication. In my book, I talk a
little bit about it as sort of a play on words.
We use this annual communication or grand communication as our meeting,
(13:16):
but as a double entendre, it means our potential communication
with the divine, a grand communication in that sense, right,
So it's an allegory of sorts in that way. But
what I paus it here is that the Masons are
able to communicate with one another. After the annual communication,
(13:37):
their grand communication, the masters go back to their working
crews and they've been given a word, a password of sorts,
a kind of code word. With the Mason's cipher, it's
a very simple cipher system hashtag symbol, all the letters
put into it, X for the remaining letters. You can
(13:57):
even use it as a font in most word process
and write out your message that way, and it works
without it being a code. Just as a little aside
here that's maybe of interest. I know of one lodge
in Washington, Esoterica Lodge that uses the Mason cipher as
(14:19):
an invitation to their candidates for to their degrees, as
a kind of way to get them in the mode
of thinking about the cipher system, the Mason cipher and
things like that. So it's a really neat way to
kind of make a little bit unique lodge culture that
uses this historic model of the Mason cipher. But the
(14:43):
Mason cipher then as a standard cipher, you know, is
easy enough. You just you know, figure out the different letters.
But if you use it with a password, let's say
you know, kat c at is a cipher system, you
pull out those three letters c AT, and then you
move all the letters as the regular cipher and put
that password as the last letters, so that if you
(15:06):
have the password, you can decipher the system and the message.
If not, then it makes it much more difficult to decipher,
and it would take you a lot more time. So
that you know, in this operative period, if a you know,
one master can wants to send a message that they're
not being paid, they're being poorly treated by someone, they
(15:28):
can send that message with the code word to other
masters and whoever might you know find the message won't
be able to decipher it unless they have the codeword,
so they can communicate at a distance safely and come
to one another's a But it also implies something else
kind of interesting that Let's say something happens that the
(15:50):
master of each working crew suddenly dies during the year
before the next ad of communication, any messages they might receive,
the master's word has been lost and they won't be
able to decipher it easily. So communication has been lost.
And so as an analogy here, if we lose the word,
(16:11):
we lose communication. And in the sense of that, you know,
double on taundre with the grand communication, we lose communication
or communion with the divine if we lose the word,
and so that's sort of the reason that I take
a look at that kind of background and model as
an allegory then or something larger our own individual communion
(16:34):
with the divine. And then when we look at the
story with Moses, we see some kind of model for
communion with the divine.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
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(18:07):
I love that you answered the question that way, especially
the bullet points I jotted them down here, that the
secret name, the Master's word, the lost word, whatever you
want to use. That it lends credence to for credibility
so that they could conduct commerce basically, but also that
they could communicate and connect with each other. It's less
about the fact that, hey, I know the secret name
(18:29):
of God, and now, like Aladdin's genie, I could summon
him to make him work for me because I know
God's because you can easily see those that didn't study
the Bible and understand why that would almost be impossible
as a human being to be able to pronounce that.
But I love the way that you've explained that. I
wonder how many brothers have come to your presentation thinking, oh,
(18:52):
he's going to give us the secret name and explain
what all of this means, like I'm going to be
able to know God's name after tonight.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
Right, And I think you know in discussing that we
usually in our question and answer and communication about that
talk about the fact that ultimately these are the mysteries
of masonry, and that the ultimate secrets are incommunicable in
a direct human to human way. That's the nature of
(19:19):
the mysteries. That's what makes them so powerful and potent.
That the true mysteries are again by allegory, we can
give you a model that's similar and hopefully then for
each Mason, if it is deeply impressed upon the mind,
it then leads to the real communication that is ineffable.
(19:41):
It's not something we can describe in that kind of
direct way. So even though we're talking about this secret name,
it's not like we can give it to you at
the end, for you know, the cost of admission. I
can suddenly tell you here's the secret name that you
actually came for.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Right, Well, speaking of names, you're going to get to
switch from brother Hat to Professor Hat here, because I'm
pretty sure I'm gonna butcher this one. But when you
get into your program, you shed a lot of insight
into the biblical story of Moses, and we find him
tending sheep and encountering the burning bush. And this is
the location that I think I'm going to say incorrectly,
(20:18):
but is it Mount Herb or Hrrb right?
Speaker 3 (20:22):
Mount Herb? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Who that one?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (20:27):
In your presentation, what's the significance of this location? And
what does the text about Moses's reaction to this? Wonder?
What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah? So the story talks about about Moses tending sheep
in the wilderness, right, and he goes all the way
to the other side of the wilderness to Mount Horb
and which is described as the mountain of God. So
there's a sacred geography here for the people first hearing
the story in antiquity, right, they know the of the land,
(21:00):
so to speak, and they know some of the places
that are being described. So it's very real, it's agible
in a sense for people in antiquity first hearing these stories.
But even as a kind of mythic geography, we can
all imagine this idea of going through the wilderness and
then being brought to a place that's mountain but is
(21:21):
no ordinary mountain. It's a mountain of broad and so
we can imagine even you know, sitting around the campfire,
this story being told as an oral tradition and people hearing.
And then Moses goes through the wilderness all the way
to the other side of the wilderness and comes to
this mountain, the Mountain of God, and the audience immediately knows, well,
(21:42):
something big is going to happen here. Obviously, right, it's epic,
It's got gravity to it as a story. So in
that sense, the geography you know, gives us lends to
that part of the storytelling. But also a little later on,
God says to Moses when Moses is feeling a little
inadequate about his ability to convey sort of the message
(22:05):
from God. God says that one of the signs that
God is with Moses is that at a certain point
God will lead the people to the mountain and they'll
worship God there, and that's how Moses will know God's
with So mountain also plays sort of a important role
in the story in that sense, right, But just further,
(22:26):
the notion of going through the wilderness and eventually coming
to that place where communion is possible, gives us a
kind of model that we see in freemasonry a little
bit through the Blue Lodge degrees, the sort of chaotic
nature of the degrees as you go from the profane
outside world outside of the Masonic temple and then slowly
(22:48):
but surely making your way to the altar. There's something
there that's maybe akin in an kind of allegory of
going through the wilderness before coming to that place where
you might come face to face with the divine.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
And I could see why master Masons are going to
get a lot out of this program because Moses, when
you think about it, his relationship with God or Deity
or the Supreme Architect, he kind of goes from being
a seeker to becoming a servant or protector of God's people.
And that's kind of part of the story that is
being oppressed upon us as Mason's as we go from
(23:21):
entered apprentice to master.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
Mason, right, and that that process is not an easy one.
Moses is very reticent, very hesitant to take on that
kind of mantle all the way to the point of
effectively kind of angering to Divine by saying that he
doesn't think he's up to the task but eventually becomes
(23:44):
a servant along with his brother Aaron, and is able
to cause a real transformation in his community and in history.
And so I think for us similarly that knowing that
that transformation is not necessarily easy. It's difficult, and there's work,
hard work. That's sort of the notion of us laboring
(24:07):
in the quarry and having that transformation take place from
the rough Ashler to you know, the perfected Ashler is
not going to be a smooth transition necessarily, but the
model of Moses's story shows us the outcome that's possible.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
What I love about presentations like yours, brother, is not
only do you get into something that I'm like, oh
I love this. I get some historical relevance, I get
some Masonic education, but I also get to expand my
personal knowledge base. You introduced the concept of and I'm
going to turn to you know, professor Nathan. Here is
it thea mania? Am I saying that correctly?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
Right?
Speaker 1 (24:45):
So?
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Like theos right as God or divine right, and mania
like mania like madness. So THEO mania is divine madness. Right.
And so when we think of you know, the story
about Moses that come from antiquity, from the ancient world
and how they're thinking about the potential for communion, for
(25:10):
divine communion. You know, Moses hears sees this wonder, sees
this fire bush, this bush that's on fire but is
not consumed, and here's a voice, and the voice says
his name Moses, Moses, and he responds, here I am
(25:30):
if today. I mean, you can think about this. You know,
in a contemporary setting, if you go out hiking with
your friends, you see a wonder, there's a bush burning.
Suddenly it starts talking to you, and it says Nathan, Nathan,
and I'm like, yeah, here I am. And my friends
are with me and are like, what's going on? You're
hearing voices and you're talking back, right, I don't necessarily
(25:54):
look at that as positive, as a good thing. In
our contemporary society, we'd see that as clinic and as
mental illness, as something not healthy, not good. Right, we
had mentioned almost immediately describe it that way. But in antiquity,
in the ancient world, that's not the view. And so
when we look at Plato and the Padris is where
(26:18):
this is described by the character of Socrates of divine madness,
and it's described very much as these are gifts, this
is divine gifts. These are moments where the human is
out of their mind. That's the being clearly given by Plato.
But in a good way. It's an opportunity where the
(26:40):
rational mind is kind of overcome so that some kind
of real transformation can be initiated. So when we think of,
you know, initiations in this kind of way as a
catalyst for real transformation, you know, looking at the way
that Plato describes this as a model in antiquity, there
are ways of looking at divine madness in very positive ways,
(27:05):
and it gives us a typology of these four kinds
of divine madness and the gifts that they imply. The
different kinds of gifts we get. You get prophetic, as
you know, the oracle a Delphi, very famous example of
kind of foresight, so that you can choose how you're
going to behave, or policies for a polity to decide
(27:26):
how they're going to move forward. So that's one kind
of divine madness that would be a gift. You get
initiatory divine madness connected with Dionysus, this kind of notion
of within a ritual setting or mystic rights, a kind
of overcoming of the rational mind for real transformation in
(27:48):
which theorgy, theoretical rights and the like might kind of
divine communion. In that sense, you get some of the world,
maybe a little more familiar with today, the poetic that
connected to the music, and so these are inspirational music lyrics,
that kind of stuff in antiquity usually connected with the Greek,
(28:08):
with wine, women in song, but in contemporary time, with
you know, recorded music and rock and roll, we get
drug sex and rock and roll. I mean the kind
of divine madness in which we get lyrics and music
that we appreciate and love that when we look at
(28:29):
the people who made that music, we would say they're
out of their mind on drugs or whatever, but they're
producing songs or lyrics or albums that we all love
and they become classics. So we're familiar with that kind
of divine madness. And the last one that's described is
erotic love euros in that sense of romantic or sexual
(28:53):
kind of madness where a person falls madly in love
and starts behaving very differently than they otherwise would because
they've fallen for someone. But sometimes that's really for the
best in their own personal life, they develop relationship or
something along those lines. So that kind of divine madness
is potentially beneficial as well. So we see this typology
(29:16):
that's given by Plato as an examples of madness, but
divine madness that provide real gifts, real opportunities in which
the person is out of their mind but for beneficial
things for themselves or their community. So in Greek we
get that sort of term of stasis and x stasis,
(29:38):
So stasis in the sense of stability and x stasis
outside of your normal mind and behaviors that we get
the term ecstasy that comes from that. So when we
think of ecstatic rights and those kind of notions of
moving one out of the regular form of mind for
this kind of communion or divine madness that potentially brings
(29:59):
these kinds of gifts, the question becomes how do we
know the difference between madness just garden variety, being out
of your mind and divine madness. And the reason the
story with Moses becomes interesting is it gives us a
model or map in which Moses does something of a test,
(30:19):
looks for proofs to see have I just been out
in the wilderness for too long. Maybe I'm dehydrated or something,
I'm losing my mind, or is this actual communion? Divine communion,
this is divine madness that's actually bringing about communication that
will be transforming. So that's what's interesting about the story
of Moses here because the story shows that it has
(30:43):
some proofs to it and leads to real transformation for
the community.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
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(31:46):
So one point we talk about the proofs is when
he questions God about his name, and this is part
of the when we talk about the secret name of God.
And I've heard this in Blue Lodge I've heard this
in New York right and Scottish write as well, as
they all tried to provide explanation on further paths for
the substitute word or other lost words that could possibly
(32:09):
tie to deity. And one that I've heard that you
mentioned in your presentation is the significance of I am
as the name. Can you give our listener a little
bit more on what that's about?
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Yeah, I think first, just to back that up a
little bit, that first interaction that Moses has when he
hears the voice and he starts talking back with the
fire bush, there is a moment there that the voice
indicates something important for us. The voice says, bluck off
(32:43):
your come no further, bluck off your shoes for the
ground upon which you walk, even though my look like
regular earth, regular ground is not. It's Adesh, it's set apart,
it's holy. We usually translate that, and so in our
Masonic ritual then we have a very clear symbolic tie
in there of if the ground upon which you walk,
(33:06):
if you imagine it to be called esher, set apart,
pluck off your shoes before you try approaching the divine
to communicate, right, So it gives us a very clear
cut sort of description of one sort of indicator there.
The other part, though, then, is that the voice says,
with the generic term in Hebrew l God in that
(33:29):
generic sense like we use it in English with a
capital G. This lineage again back to that notion of lineages.
The boy says, I am the God of your father,
the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac Jacob. So
provides the right lineage, gives the right names, but doesn't
use the name that is, the secret name known only
to the community. It's exclusive in that sense, it's protective.
(33:53):
It makes sure that the people who know the name
are true versus whether if this other sort of voice
kind of indicates well, I'm the god of this, that
or the other, how do you know that's true? Maybe
that's true. Maybe you're just out in the wilderness too
long and losing your mind, right, And so there's this
(34:13):
kind of back and forth where Moses says, well, that's
cool and all, but if I go back to the
Israelites and tell them I started talking to this wonder
this fire bush, They're gonna say, yeah, maybe you've just
lost your mind just regular. And so there's this kind
of response that Moses looks for and the voice of
(34:37):
the divine first gives this particular response that says, hey,
I am that I am. Tell them I am that
I am is. I Am is the one that you
communicated with, that sent you. This is one of the
names of God that's been described and talked about a
(34:58):
great deal over the centuries, and is in some ways
maybe best thought of in a mystical sense. It's very
strongly indicating something about being I Am. There's almost an
indication that Moses knows, by the very potency, the very
(35:18):
majesty of the interaction, that this is legitimate, this is real.
And so that's the first part. But then it's the
that doesn't seem to satisfy, or at least the way
that the story is told. Moses doesn't suddenly respond and say, okay,
that's good enough for me. So the divine the voice
(35:39):
continues on. But that first voice, that first name is
given as I Am, and so that's one of the
names then that we get out of this particular communication.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
M You also mentioned that he's got to kind of
prove to others that he's not crazy, but he's crazy
in a good way, right, And now he's got to
convince a bunch of people that, you know, he has
now gotten this authority, he now has this relationship, he
has this connection now with a divine being. And he's
got to convince the Israelites, he's got to convince the
(36:12):
Pharaoh that he's not the guy who's just out talking
of bushes in the desert and going nuts. And he
does this through signs. And this is a part is
a Mason where our ears perk up and we go, oh, signs.
So what are these signs and what are they? What
do they symbolize?
Speaker 3 (36:30):
Right? So the follow up part with the communication of
the names is that God says the secret name, the
four letter name of God, the tetragramaton yoda head babe.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
And.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Says not just God in the sense of l or
the generic sense, says the name, the secret name, and
that's sort of the proof positive, and says this will
be the down through the generations that God will be
known by. So we get the proper name given there.
In the English translation, including to King James, the translation
(37:13):
of that word is usually Lord, right, the Lord, rather
than giving that secret name. But in history and Jewish history,
the development of the special name, the secret name, the
fore letter name of God becomes important for the development
of practices at Solomon's Temple, and so by tradition, the
(37:35):
notion is that only the High Priest of Jerusalem will
say this secret name of God, and only after the
high holidays, the ten day period kicked off from Russiashana,
in which people have penitence, they make amends for the
things that they've done over the past year. And then
on you four day of Atonement, after everyone's a tone
(37:58):
gotten right with their neighbor, then and only then the
high priests goes into the temple, and not just into
the temple, into this one part of the temple that
is the Holy of holies, the Adesh hakodeshim, the part
that's set apart within the place set apart, so completely
(38:18):
separated from the profane world in that sense, and then
says this secret name. And so by conveying the name
to Moses, this is sort of the moment where Moses sees,
this is the proof positive, this is the secret name.
But even still Moses knows and says to God, if
I go back and tell them I heard the secret name,
(38:39):
there's still not going to be convinced. They're going to
just say, oh, so you heard the secret name when
you were hearing voices out in the desert. Great. You
know that doesn't mean anything. It just means you started
hearing the secret name, just like anything else. And so
this is where the signs come into play. And these
signs are a little bit strange when you see them,
(38:59):
maybe on the surface of the story. Usually when I
tell the story in person, I tie part of this
to the Adam and Eve narrative in Genesis, with the
garden of Eden, the serpent and the eating of the
forbidden fruit that leads to the covering. They really realize
(39:19):
their nakedness. God returns and it's the first time, the
only time in the Biblical translations, in the King James
version that uses the word apron, and they wear it
as a loin cloth. And as a result, we wear
aprons that are effectively covering one part of the body.
So when we look here at the signs in the
(39:42):
Mosaic story, I'll just say that in person presentations I
talk about this more as euphemisms, these different parts as euphemisms,
And so I guess I'll leave it to the listeners
imagine nation to understand the symbols in that sense when
(40:03):
we read it from maybe a surface level to the
way that it can be read a little more subtly.
So that kind of gives us maybe an indication here.
But the first sign, God says, all right, we'll take
your rod. Now, throw it on the ground, and it
turns to a snake. It turns limp right. Moses runs away,
and then God says, all right, now take it by
(40:26):
the root, take it by its tail, and all of
a sudden it becomes rigid, it becomes stiff again, and
it becomes a rod. And God's like, all right, that's
a there's the first trick. It's the first sign, right,
And so that's one sign that's going to be an
important one that they utilize. Moses and Aaron utilize the
sort of turning the rod to a snake or serpent
(40:47):
becomes one of the signs. But God says, if that
doesn't convince them, the second sign, take your yawd your hand,
and I'll just say the word yod in Hebrew is
probably the most common euphemism for penis in and so
there's lots of different stories in the Tanach or Old
(41:08):
Testament in which you can read it as yod or
hand on one level, but if you read it again carefully,
you see that there's something else being implied, and sometimes
not very subtle.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Right.
Speaker 3 (41:22):
So here the story says, take your yod, now, put
it into your cloak. Now pull it out, and it's
going to turn completely white, like white as snow. Right now,
If it's your hand, you can understand why that might
be a little bit concerning to the people, the Israelites
when they see this. If it's not just your hand,
(41:45):
you can understand why it's maybe a bigger deal and
more convincing to them of oh man, we've got to
do something right back to normal, right, And so.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Especially for the user himself.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
If this is being given as an example to all
of the people, and you know, there's going to very
quickly be like, what do we got to do to
get this back? And then the third sign is take
water from the nile, pour it on dry ground, and
it turns to blood. Right, So these three signs, then
you know he can read them on the surfaces one
sort of narrative. But I think if you read it
(42:18):
as these kind of euphemisms, you get a different layer
of the story that maybe helps to tie into the
part of the story that comes immediately afterward, where Moses
is traveling, he's nearly killed by God and that kind
of stuff. There's some a little bit more explanation and
understanding that comes when we look at the story from
another level there. But these signs again are meant to
(42:39):
be proofs right that Moses isn't just going mad out
in the wilderness. He's actually had real communication and it's
not just the word or name, but there are proofs
that he can show as proof positive that this is
real and it's real communication.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
While you're telling the story, I'm thinking of probably the
most famous person I know that's demonstrated as Charleston Heston
and going through those things and then you know he
ends with my people go. But now I'm thinking of
like in the Bible, if you saw these things, we
would think of it as magic in our minds, like
this is unexplained and it definitely would really jostle your
(43:20):
own belief system and like what is going on here?
How does this person have the powers to do this?
It gets your attention, and that's it's kind of what
this all means. As freemasons, though you know, we're not
giving you secrets away on the podcast. We've never been
about that, but I'm sure there's a lot of brothers
that are sitting here thinking like, oh, okay. We talk
about this in each of our degrees. We talk about
the meaning of symbolisms and posture and why we stand
(43:43):
this way and why this is done. And so much
of our degrees is tied to stories and lessons in
and from the Old Testament. This is all kind of
making sense when we talk about the initiatic, the obligation
part of our degree system.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah, So to point out that idea that it might
be magic, and it looks like magic in the narrative
when Moses and Aaron come before the court of Pharaoh,
they perform these signs and Pharaoh's you know why, it's
sometimes described as wise men or the they're described as magicians,
(44:24):
as people doing the same kinds of things to see. Well,
can they match with their Egyptian knowledge of the unseen?
Can they do the same kinds of signs? And they
perform similar signs. But it also illustrates that the signs
being shown by Moses and Aaron are greater by magnitude
(44:44):
and are able to literally swallow up the magic that
is being done by the Egyptian magicians and poorly. This
is meant to show that things that might seem miraculous
to us are possible through this kind of divine communication
and this kind of knowledge and understanding of the divine plan.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Now, I'm sure I'm not the only brother who's heard
you tell the story. I wish i'd actually got a
chance to see your presentation or program. But I'm kind
of coming to the conclusion here, And I'm sure you've
gotten this question before, but do you kind of feel
that maybe Moses was one of the original Freemasons?
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Well, yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on these lineages.
Like I said that we describe all the way from
the Old.
Speaker 4 (45:33):
Charges through the the constitutions of Anderson and beyond always
have a reference to Moses.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
And there is in the description of the story itself
the Jewish people Israelites are building with brick, and that's
part of the story as well. And so this notion
that there is some thing about how Moses is leading
the people, and the connection to the lineage that's described
(46:06):
always includes Moses as a part of this lineage. So
we can see that Moses is at least a very
important part of that lineage of the earliest of what
we think of as Mason's through time.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
This has been one of the most eye opening episodes
we've had this year on Masonic education. Really getting into
exploring the ancient mysteries is what we're all about here
on the Craftsman Online podcast. So worschiful brother, I'm going
to get you out of here with this question. You've
put a lot of yourself into this work, into this research,
and thank you again for sharing it with us. What
(46:42):
personally resonates you or resonates with you about this story
and what are you kind of hoping our listener takes
away from hearing this discussion tonight.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
I think the fact that this story is so ubiquitous,
it's so widespread in our society that if you talk
about the Burning Bush or Moses in the Burning Bush,
and the Passover and Exodus and the parting of the
Red Sea, even if people aren't religious, they know some
(47:15):
bits of the story, so that when you say the
Burning Bush, even people who aren't religious, just as a
part of our cultural literacy, will know that it's about
divine communion and a story of that divine communion taking place.
It's transformative that changes history in a meaningful way. But
I think most people don't pause to consider the experience experientially,
(47:41):
what that might be like to suddenly come upon a
wonder and have divine communion, and how terrifying, the awe
awesome and awful, the majesty of that kind of experience
of divine communion, and the feeling that Moses has of
of feeling inadequate, feeling rather small and incapable of playing
(48:04):
a part in this plan and being able to act
as a servant. And yet in the story there is
a clear indication that God, through Moses, and through cooperation
with someone he trusts, his brother Aaron, is able to
work together, that Aaron has some skills that Moses may not,
(48:27):
and that together they're able to, with the understanding of
the divine plan, cause real transformation in their community. And
I hope that that idea that you might at times
feel like you don't have the skills to cause real
transformation by yourself in your neighborhood or in your community.
(48:49):
For brothers, when you come to lodge and you see
the other brothers there who do have other skill sets
that you maybe don't possess that together, working on different
projects in your neighborhood and in your community, you can
cause great transformations to take place. And this story really
gives us that kind of model for how that has
(49:12):
taken place in the past that we can apply to
our lives and to our lodges today. So that's one
of the things I hope that even though we talk
about symbolism and history and some of these different connections
in a practical way, I hope that brothers see that
particular connection and see it as applicable in their communities and.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
In your Thanks again to Brother Shick for his time
on the Craftsman Online podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode
and you want to hear some more, make sure you
follow us on Spotify or hit subscribe on Apple Podcasts.
That's how you can be certain that next week's episode
is going to be right there and you don't miss
a minute of it. If you'd like to hear our
shows earlier and add free well, of course, take advantage
(49:56):
of our seven day free trial on Patreon with Craftsmen Online. Yeah,
and if you want to join us, I think it's
like what five bucks and you can help support the
show and never have to listen to me do another
annoying commercial again. I'm right, worshipful brother Michael Arse, You
know I always dig starting my Monday morning with you,
looking forward to next week already until then, but peace
and harmony prevail
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